:: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

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Friday, January 24th, 2014, 00:00 UTC
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[00:01:08] delrey: I don't think I'm on the currect page though I do enter system diagnotics and I get channel specific detail the closest value is a carrier lock = true
[00:02:10] delrey: however when I compare this to a channel I can view like EPIC HD I get the same value
[00:03:29] delrey: I can't go by the HDHOMERun GUI tool
[00:03:47] delrey: it marks HD FOX encrypted but I can view that no problem
[00:04:02] delrey: I did notice an error in the logs
[00:04:10] delrey: let em grab that
[00:04:53] kisak: so, what I'm talking about is a metadata setting that goes along with the cablecard encryption
[00:05:57] kisak: knowing if the tuner locked on to the channel is insufficient information
[00:07:44] delrey: I'll browse the STB a bit more
[00:07:55] kisak: on the fios STB, the full information is at diagnostics -> d06 Current channel status
[00:08:03] kisak: it's not in the normal menus
[00:09:11] kisak: go to the channel you want, mash power select select on the front panel of the box
[00:09:53] kisak: and you're looking for CCI: 0x00 among that information
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[00:11:08] kisak: (power button to leave that menu)
[00:11:30] kisak: ^leave doagnostics mode
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[00:16:04] kisak: so you can view Epix with the HDHomerun utility, but not with mythtv, right?
[00:20:01] kisak: anyway, long story short is that mythtv records everything and then plays that recording on the frontend, also, record once (CCI = 0x01) requires that the recording be re-encrypted on the storage medium, which is then run through the cablecard on playback and mythtv does not support that
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[00:30:02] delrey: gotcha, OK thanks. my STB is in the other room and it took a few time to get it into that diag menu
[00:30:15] delrey: I'll compare the channels and let you know
[00:31:14] delrey: as far as EPIC HD, HDHOME Channel report it was encrypted and I was able to view both with the home view and thru mythtv
[00:31:45] delrey: I think I get it now with the info you've provided
[00:31:48] delrey: I appreciate it
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[01:07:41] delrey: This may sound crazy, could I have bricked the STB try too many key combinations?
[01:08:09] kisak: not that I have seen
[01:08:10] delrey: I was only able to get it into the menu twice and I hard to hardboot it to do so
[01:08:38] kisak: it's hard to get in and out with the remote
[01:08:59] delrey: I get the power light that comes on with the power button but no picture and no Verizon banner
[01:09:12] delrey: I even tried pulling the power
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[01:10:17] kisak: if it doesn't see the tv via hdmi when switching modes, it can turn that off, but the composite output will be on
[01:10:51] delrey: ahh, good point, I'll try that
[01:10:54] delrey: thanks
[01:19:41] delrey: this is crazy, only me.... So with the composite and HDMI disconnected I get a Please Wait in a grey box but that disappeared
[01:19:46] delrey: and still nothing
[01:20:03] delrey: it seems like its stuck in some state
[01:20:38] delrey: what I noticed is when I was in menu and on the right channel it had no stats for anything. I had a bunch of N/A
[01:21:18] delrey: so I tried other menu options last being the buttons then just powered off as there was no escaping
[01:21:36] delrey: anyway I have another, I guess I'll just RMA it with Verizon
[01:21:55] kisak: odds are it's fine, but confused
[01:22:07] delrey: I looked for a reset
[01:22:38] kisak: I'd pull the power, wait a bit, then let it cold start
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[01:32:25] delrey: So outside if the STB can the CCI protection tag HDHOMERUN provide reliable?
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[01:33:13] delrey: if I tune to the channel with the view it reports the channel, Frequency, Authorization, CCI Protection
[01:33:39] delrey: and it does indicate protected-copyonce for channels I cannot view
[01:34:08] kisak: I do not have whatever utility you see that on, but probably so
[01:35:29] delrey: Actually, let me correct myself. what I see is a few channels marked copyonce I cannot view
[01:35:38] delrey: others I see unrestricted
[01:35:45] delrey: I have to refresh the view
[01:36:16] delrey: I'm using the HDHOMERun Config GUI utility
[01:36:32] delrey: I think its also on mythtbuntu image
[01:36:41] delrey: I'll try a few more
[01:37:37] kisak: I have a ceton infinitv4 and a dual tuner HDHomerun listening to verizon, so not compatible here
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[02:45:39] mattwj2002: hi guys
[02:46:03] mattwj2002: I keep on running out of hard drive room
[02:46:11] Hydr0p0nX: yay ! optical out header adapter came in xD time to test it
[02:46:13] mattwj2002: it isn't auto deleting anything
[02:46:14] mattwj2002: :-s
[02:46:44] mattwj2002: any help?
[02:47:24] Hydr0p0nX: have auto-expire enabled?
[02:47:41] mattwj2002: yes
[02:48:01] mattwj2002: not all programs but enough it shouldn't be running out of space
[02:48:07] mattwj2002: software bug?
[02:48:35] mattwj2002: 577 programs, using 1.3 TB (13 days 11 hrs 25 mins) out of 1.3 TB (4 KB free).
[02:48:58] mattwj2002: see 4KB free :-s
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[02:49:26] Hydr0p0nX: check the logs and see if the auto-expire tasks are running
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[02:52:31] alistair: mattwj2002: Are your global auto expire settings looking OK?
[02:52:40] alistair:
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[02:56:10] mattwj2002: alistair:
[02:56:30] mattwj2002: I can't find this -> Setup->TV settings->General settings-> Global Auto Expire Settings
[02:56:36] mattwj2002: is this in the backend setup?
[02:58:39] mattwj2002: I don't see TV Settings
[03:03:47] mattwj2002: I am running 0.25
[03:03:53] mattwj2002: should I try upgrading?
[03:04:05] alistair: For 0.27: front-end Setup -> Video -> General -> General (Auto-Expire) (page 2)
[03:04:50] alistair: 0.25 is probably a little different, but hopefully this will help.
[03:06:32] mattwj2002: alistair it is enabled
[03:06:48] mattwj2002: Auto-Expire default (checked)
[03:06:51] alistair: What's the minimum free space set to?
[03:06:57] mattwj2002: 1 Gb
[03:07:01] mattwj2002: 1 GB*
[03:07:07] mattwj2002: I increased it to 10
[03:08:37] mattwj2002: do you think I should upgrade mythtv and see what happens?
[03:08:47] alistair: I'd next be hunting through the logs as Hydr0p0nX suggested. Maybe grep on "expire" (sorry if I'm stating the obvious, just trying to trigger some other ideas)
[03:09:13] alistair: Also try the mailing list, there's some really good people there.
[03:09:29] mattwj2002: alistair: it is appreciated
[03:09:30] mattwj2002: :D
[03:12:49] alistair: :-)
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[03:22:03] mattwj2002: guys I found this
[03:22:05] mattwj2002: AutoExpire: Filesystem Info cache is empty, unable to determine what Recordings to expire
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[03:30:01] jya_: is the mythlcdserver only started by the frontend or can it be started by the backend ?
[03:33:37] alistair: This is beyond my knowledge. I'd suggest sending what you've found to the mailing list.
[03:34:30] mattwj2002: alistair: I think I fixed it
[03:35:02] mattwj2002: I didn't have a default storage group defined
[03:35:09] Hydr0p0nX: that'll do it
[03:35:20] mattwj2002: yup :)
[03:35:42] mattwj2002: hehe
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[03:35:51] mattwj2002: I also increased my free space to 50 GB
[03:35:55] mattwj2002: just for good measure
[03:36:04] mattwj2002: but it started clearing out before then
[03:36:06] mattwj2002: *that
[03:37:33] alistair: :-)
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[03:37:50] mattwj2002: it was just weird....
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[03:38:33] mattwj2002: it knew where to record the recordings but not where to delete them
[03:38:33] mattwj2002: :)
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[03:46:58] Hydr0p0nX: I think I just fixed my audio out issues i've been battling for at least a month
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[03:53:46] Korny: thats good, whats its been doign?
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[04:22:30] Hydr0p0nX: not working the way i wanted
[04:22:41] Hydr0p0nX: mainly, couldn't get HDMI audio to work w/ nvidia driver
[04:22:59] Hydr0p0nX: ended up just ordering a optical out header and sending audio out of it
[04:23:08] Hydr0p0nX: now i get 5.1 :)
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[06:04:42] jKlaus: Anyone here using any of the stick pc's with A9 & Mali 400?
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[06:05:26] jKlaus: I'm considering purchasing an MK908 and using one of the android mythtv frontend apps
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[06:33:35] noaXess: good morning
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[07:04:08] noaXess: if i use any other theme on frontend then terra or mythcenter, i get always mythcontext messages that backend is online... first i thought that networking on backend is problem.. but changed network card and same problem.
[07:04:14] noaXess: any hint/idea?
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[07:11:09] noaXess: but now also with mythcenter theme it also come up the message.. i think it happens while mythtfrontend is trying t fetch the preview image for the show..
[07:12:27] noaXess: yes .. now i list shows that don't have any preview and wait.. and mythcontect message is come up for every show
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[15:27:16] kjj: so, does anyone know how to fix the audio sync problem?
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[15:36:57] kjj: I have two boxes with different software that both have the 2+ second audio advance on HD playback
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[16:05:05] Hydr0p0nX: kjj, what video card and sound card ? also, what driver are you using ?
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[16:08:38] kjj: both are Nvidia 610 (one integrated, one PCIe) using HDMI out (video and sound)
[16:10:04] Hydr0p0nX: using the nvidia driver or nouveau?
[16:10:10] kjj: mythbuntu box (integrated) is on 319, slackware is on 331
[16:10:16] sphery: kjj: have you adjusted the audio sync? MENU (M), then something like Audio|Sync, and adjust appropriately
[16:10:20] kjj: proprietary
[16:10:55] kjj: yes, audio sync of about +2300 works on one box, but then is way off in the other direction when listening to other recordings
[16:11:43] sphery: then the problem is outside of mythtv
[16:11:48] kjj: oh yeah, did I mention that it only happens on some recordings? the recordings play fine in VLC when streamed from the backend
[16:11:56] sphery: likely pre-processing in your a/v receiver/tv/...
[16:12:12] sphery: or else you have broken recordings
[16:12:22] sphery: (possibly because the broadcaster has incorrect sync)
[16:12:43] sphery: I'm assuming it's some kind of digital capture, since you're getting HDTV, right?
[16:12:48] sphery: like DVB or whatever
[16:12:53] kjj: yeah, hdpvr
[16:13:06] kjj: but again, the recordings are fine. I can stream them to VLC on my windows box and they play fine
[16:13:07] sphery: ok, with hd-pvr, it /could/ be capture card setup
[16:13:35] sphery: meaning the piping between your STB and the hd-pvr isn't right
[16:13:56] sphery: but if they play fine elsewhere, then it's likely something after mythtv
[16:14:13] kjj: the hdpvr is on the backend in the basement with a cable box. now I'm trying to set up frontends
[16:14:16] sphery: going from your computer direct to tv or through an a/v receiver?
[16:14:23] kjj: direct to tv
[16:14:38] sphery: I'd guess it's doing something that's messing it up
[16:14:43] kjj: and it works fine for other programs
[16:15:00] sphery: especially if it's 2.3seconds
[16:15:28] sphery: but you may want to try changing the audio setup for hd-pvr
[16:16:28] sphery: I think there were some differences depending on ac-3 or not or ???
[16:16:33] J-e-f-f-A: How fast are your frontend machines? Can they decode the HD-PVR's H.264 recordings successfully? Can you play them with VLC on those machines?
[16:17:01] kjj: I'm using vdpau on both of them
[16:17:16] kjj: they don't seem to be fast enough for a software decoder
[16:17:30] kjj: one is a zbox id86
[16:18:55] J-e-f-f-A: Open a web browser on them, point to mythweb, and stream them to VLC on each. See if the 2.3 sec issue is still there.
[16:19:23] devinheitmueller: Yeah, those Zboxes are nice, but they don't have the horsepower for software decode of HD H.264.
[16:19:23] kjj: I think that my problems were all on AC3 streams, but I don't think it was all AC3 streams that were wrong
[16:20:08] kjj: J-e-f-f-A: I'll try that when I get home
[16:20:32] kjj: devinheitmueller: that's why I picked ones with good vdpau units. :)
[16:21:20] devinheitmueller: Also largely a question of the software used. Until recently VLC would copy the video back from the GPU to the CPU, and even though the VDPAU unit could handle the load, the memory bandwidth wasn't there to support HD resolutions.
[16:22:17] devinheitmueller: I'm just citing that as an example, of course. I suspect MythTV doesn't copy the video back.
[16:22:58] kjj: video playback is nearly flawless on both. occasionally gets sluggish after a jump or when I screw with the audio sync setting too much
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[16:26:59] kjj: I may try using a non-HDMI audio device too
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[16:32:09] J-e-f-f-A: There was a time that I actually ran XVMC on a 1GHZ PIII and was able to play 720P MPEG2 with high success (only an occasional blip)... but I haven't used hardware decoding since as it was just to much work to get things working perfectly... I replaced them with fast cpus. ;-)
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[16:32:54] kjj: fast CPU seems to be incompatible with low TDP
[16:37:22] kjj: what are other people using for frontend hardware?
[16:37:36] sphery: kjj: fast CPU doesn't need to be fast (or power-hungry) all the time
[16:37:48] sphery: a fast CPU means resources when you need them
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[16:38:00] sphery: and a CPU that idles well means low power when you don't need it
[16:38:05] sphery: = best of both worlds
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[16:40:41] sphery: though I don't recommend the Mac Mini (especially now, as I don't think it has nvidia graphics, anymore), it was used here as an example of "low-power-usage with headroom when you need it" –
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[16:41:07] sphery: but those tom's hardware links show build-it-yourself type systems that were getting about 25W at idle
[16:41:23] sphery: and you can actually do better, today, 3+ years later
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[16:46:58] kjj: at one point, I was setting up a test build of openelec gotham to talk to my 0.27 backend
[16:47:04] kjj: on a raspberry pi
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[17:00:54] houms: good day all. Is it possible to use mythtv with roku? specifically using mythtv to record OTA ?
[17:01:22] Korny: hmm there is no roku plugin for mythtv
[17:01:34] sphery: houms: possible, but you'll get the best experience using a computer and mythfrontend as your display system
[17:01:59] sphery: talks a bit about mythrokuplayer
[17:02:13] sphery: but you lose out on most of what make MythTV better than a standard DVR
[17:02:34] Korny: yiu can hack a roku and install xbmc and the cmyth plugin.... but result may not be acceptable
[17:02:36] sphery: (i.e. commercial skipping, time stretch, ...)
[17:02:59] sphery: you can install mythrokuplayer, but the result is much worse than just using mythfrontend
[17:03:16] houms: sphery i thought mythrokuplayer was putting mythtv on a roku?
[17:03:23] houms: and is that not only the hd1000?
[17:03:34] sphery: playing mythtv recordings on a roku
[17:03:37] Korny: there is a mythroku player? wow never knew
[17:03:56] sphery: it's not mythtv, though
[17:04:09] Korny: its like the android player
[17:04:13] sphery: it's a 3rd party application that allows it to get to video
[17:04:27] sphery: but you don't get mythfrontend's feature set
[17:04:34] ctmjr: set up mythtv plex media server and roku was not the best I prefer mythfrontend
[17:05:35] sphery: yeah, IMHO, with the cost (both money for hardware + time) of MythTV, using less-than-ideal systems for playback (=user interaction) completely defeats the purpose of the MythTV "luxury" DVR
[17:06:10] sphery: at which point, you may do better just getting a cable-/satellite-company DVR or WinMCE or whatever
[17:06:21] sphery: or tivo or ...
[17:06:55] sphery: that said, if you do MythTV and have a mythfrontend for interaction/playback, Roku is ideal for handling what MythTV (and GNU/Linux) doesn't/can't handle
[17:06:58] kjj: I've been using torrents as my DVR for many years. finally setting up myth in hopes of getting my setup girlfriend-friendly
[17:07:10] sphery: things like NetFlix/Amazon Instant/Hulu/...
[17:08:54] sphery: well, we do encourage you to do things legally and without violating any terms of service (and we will kick people from channel for discussing approaches that are generally not legal/not legal in the US)
[17:09:02] sphery: but I do recommend using mythfrontend with MythTV
[17:09:52] sphery: and I highly recommend having a good CPU (AMD Trinity or after or Intel i3 or higher) and an nvidia video card that supports vdpau
[17:10:08] sphery: pretty much anything else is the wrong tool for the job :)
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[17:11:43] kisak: older cpus can work without trouble, but a non-nvidia video card w/ vdpau is a pain in th rear
[17:12:33] sphery: yeah, but having a modern cpu has many benefits, including low-power-usage-at-idle and performance-when-you-need-it
[17:12:44] Korny: hopefully amd vdpau becomes as stable as nvidia. Integrated amd CPUs would make decent affordable frontends
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[17:13:21] sphery: though having a Roku means you don't have to try to make Adobe Tr^H^HFlash work, so that's one CPU-burner you don't have to worry about
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[17:14:25] Korny: i use a 35 watt ivycore i3 for my backend. it can comflag 4 streams and run a frontend using intel gpu without a sweat
[17:16:21] kjj: how are other people handling clear-QAM + cable box setups?
[17:16:40] kisak: the POS phenom tri core build ends up using 121 watts total most of the time
[17:16:51] Korny: i just put a drive through 4 cycles of badblocks write/read and and extended smart test. Think its reliable?
[17:16:51] sphery: yeah, i3 is good--and gives good power usage numbers
[17:17:02] sphery: clear qam is disappearing fast
[17:17:18] sphery: Brighthouse Networks (in Southeast US) just turned it off on Jan 1
[17:17:27] kjj: you'd run into many of the same problems if you have ATSC + digital cable
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[17:17:41] sphery: pretty sure Comcast and TWC are turning it off completely throughout the nation, market by market
[17:17:59] sphery: has info on cable
[17:18:07] sphery: tends to be your best bet
[17:18:11] ** ctmjr wait's for metrocast to drop the hammer **
[17:18:12] Korny: kjj eh? i have an hdhr prime and 2 hdhrs all is well
[17:18:36] kjj: my cable company is pretty good. I bet they'd give me a QAM map if I ask for it. would schedules direct set up a listing for it if I provide the map?
[17:18:41] Korny: only flagged channels are bravo and premiums
[17:18:44] sphery: but if you're using a provider that doesn't support CableCARD, your only option is (for HDTV) or . . . on-HD_output
[17:18:54] sphery: i.e. HD-PVR for HDTV or PVR-x50 for SDTV
[17:19:01] kjj: what I did was go through my QAM channels by hand and set the xmltvid in the database to match the STB channels' id
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[17:19:52] Korny: providers are required to provide cable cards. whether they flag all their channels is another issue
[17:20:06] sphery: yeah, good point
[17:20:13] sphery: technically they support cable card
[17:20:14] kjj: if they are stopping clear QAM, they'll presumably be flagging them soon too
[17:20:24] Korny: Says who?
[17:20:25] sphery: but whether they flag recordings as "copy freely" is the question
[17:20:41] stuarta: unlikely
[17:20:45] sphery: we hope not
[17:20:58] Korny: Comcast here has no clear QAM but my cable card works fine
[17:22:40] kjj: I may grab a prime just to see which channels are copyable here
[17:22:41] sphery: that said, my fiancee "needs" ESPN and I've always just had OTA channels, so now we have cable, but it wasn't worth going through the HD-PVR approach for the ESPN, so we also have a cable-co DVR for that
[17:23:16] sphery: but if that's the only approach possible, I'm sure many would think it's worthwhile
[17:23:29] kjj: two systems is one system too many
[17:23:36] sphery: that = 'using an HD-PVR to record cable TV in MythTV'
[17:23:41] stuarta: two systems = wifey happiness
[17:23:48] sphery: stuarta: agreed :)
[17:24:15] stuarta: all the sports channels are on the company pvr, all the kids programs on mythtv
[17:24:22] stuarta: it's a nice balance
[17:24:40] stuarta: also her program = their pvr
[17:25:09] sphery: yeah, it's nice that she has a system she's comfortable with and I'm not to blame when it has problems
[17:25:30] kjj: so, with the prime, does it follow the STB channel map?
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[17:25:48] sphery: "follow the STB channel map"?
[17:26:12] sphery: it's configured by importing the channel list from your listings provider (i.e. Schedules Direct in North America(
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[17:26:22] ** stuarta guesses that means do the channel numbers match **
[17:26:34] sphery: where SD's lineups should be identical to the ones used by your cable co
[17:26:43] kjj: like on my setup, 85–5 on QAM is 251 on the STB. which would the prime see?
[17:26:58] sphery: kjj: note, too, that you can get a free 7-day trial of SD data, so you can see what they offer
[17:27:18] kjj: already paid them
[17:27:20] sphery: the prime would tune by sending "logical channel number 251" to the cable card
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[17:27:33] kjj: heh. had to tell them to update my listings too. it was WAY old
[17:27:37] sphery: but you can change channel numbers to anything you want
[17:27:50] sphery: channel name/call sign/number are all user-editable fields
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[17:27:59] sphery: so if you want to call 251 85–5, you can
[17:28:02] sphery: or you could call it 1
[17:28:09] sphery: or 1.1
[17:28:11] sphery: or whatever
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[17:28:36] sphery: channel numbers are only used as a means of telling Live TV "tune directly to /this/ channel"
[17:28:40] sphery: rather than going through the guide
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[17:29:06] sphery: and "frequency ID" will be used to tell the tuner (cablecard) the channel to tune
[17:29:22] sphery: freq id is technically user-editable, but it needs to be the value the tuner understands
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[17:31:10] sphery: kjj: anyway, good luck with figuring out mythtv... it's well worth the time once you get it up and running, as long as you have the right pieces for the job
[17:31:31] sphery: oh, and I highly recommend a good distro with up-to-date packages for MythTV
[17:32:32] sphery: something like ubuntu/mythbuntu – (and use an LTS version and make sure you enable the current 0.27-fixes repo on it)
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[17:33:45] kjj: my backend was easy to set up on slackware. I was expecting mythbuntu to be easier for the frontend, but it wasn't
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[17:41:03] Kwisher_wrk: i've found .27 to be problematic
[17:41:15] Kwisher_wrk: with two backends, at least
[17:42:06] kjj: what sorts of problems?
[17:42:30] Kwisher_wrk: master b/e would lockup and freeze
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[17:42:46] Kwisher_wrk: i think there is a know bug but not sure
[17:43:06] Kwisher_wrk: went back to .26 two weeks ago
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[17:47:44] Korny: ok added new drive to the backend :)
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[17:54:35] new: hello, i currently have mythbuntu installed for i really need mythbuntu or is it better to just install the backend/frontend on another OS?
[17:54:57] Korny: I don't understand your question
[17:55:29] Korny: If you want to use another OS its your choice, mythbuntu is just simple
[17:55:37] new: is is better to have mythbuntu or will just installing the backend/frontend on an OS like xbuntu?
[17:56:51] new: ok, thanks
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[17:56:55] Korny: If you're staying with a buntu varient it really wouldn't matter
[17:57:01] Korny: wow he leaves quick
[17:57:21] Kwisher_wrk: new: i use xubuntu but then install the mythbuntu-control-centre to do the myth setup
[17:57:37] Kwisher_wrk: impatient :)
[17:58:03] Korny: mythbuntu just has xfce which is nice and basic
[17:58:12] Kwisher_wrk: he won't have much luck with myth with that attitude :)
[17:59:41] stuartm: kjj: Kwisher_wrk: there's a known issue with for those users with slave backends, if you don't have a slave backend then 0.27 should be more stable than 0.26
[18:00:00] Korny: sigh its going to take me a week to combine my 2 servers :/
[18:00:11] Korny: I have to convert from reiserfs to ext4 :/
[18:00:17] Kwisher_wrk: stuartm: mine is a slave :(
[18:01:06] Kwisher_wrk: stuartm: so should the 2nd b/e be configured as a master to solve the issue?
[18:02:00] stuartm: Kwisher_wrk: you can only have one master, the rest have to be slaves
[18:02:04] ctmjr: i do not think you can have 2 master backends on the same system
[18:02:29] sphery: do you need multiple backends?
[18:02:33] stuartm: I'll take another look at the issue this coming week, maybe I'll have more luck finding and fixing the issue
[18:02:35] kjj: any work on making the master role electable?
[18:02:55] kjj: I'm just curious. I only have a single backend and don't plan to change that any time soon
[18:03:03] sphery: only reasons are a) not enough room/resources for number of tuners you want in a single system and b) not enough room/resources for number of hard drives you want in a single system
[18:03:05] Kwisher_wrk: sphery: yes, or i'd have to run coax from my antenna to my master
[18:03:21] Korny: hmmmm get an hdhr2
[18:03:24] Kwisher_wrk: i have 7 tuners
[18:03:28] Korny: err HDHR  :)
[18:03:32] sphery: oh, because you master has some non-antenna source?
[18:03:43] sphery: like cable STB or something?
[18:03:47] Kwisher_wrk: Korny: i have 2, one prime and atsc
[18:04:45] sphery: you can't just put the ATSC HDHR next to the antenna coax entrance and use ethernet to get it to the master?
[18:05:21] Kwisher_wrk: antennae is in attic and either way i'd have to fish cable to master
[18:05:41] J-e-f-f-A: Yeah, but cat5 is way cheaper than RG6. lol.
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[18:07:12] sphery: and in theory, you already have ethernet cable to your remote backend
[18:07:23] sphery: so just put the prime there and leave out the extra computer
[18:07:29] sphery: er, the non-prime hdhr
[18:08:51] Kwisher_wrk: i'm not changing my setup for a software bug
[18:09:32] sphery: just saying your setup seems to have an extra computer in the mix :)
[18:09:42] sphery: 01.24 13:03:03 <+sphery> only reasons are a) not enough room/resources for number of tuners you want in a single system and b) not enough room/resources for number of hard drives you want in a single system
[18:10:14] sphery: perhaps it could be better used elsewhere, or just save you $5/mo on electricity costs :)
[18:10:43] sphery: (and this is why the software bug exists--because there's little reason for remote backends today)
[18:10:47] J-e-f-f-A: Wait, not enough room/resources for number of hard drives? I've got 14 drives on one system now, all in one cabinet. Sure, I had to add an additional sata adapter as my MB only has 8 ports, but only one box. ;-)
[18:10:52] Kwisher_wrk: it works great on .26
[18:11:26] sphery: J-e-f-f-A: yeah, you either get bigger case/mobo/psu or multiple systems
[18:11:51] sphery: you went with the one-computer solution, but not everyone may choose to
[18:11:55] Kwisher_wrk: although now that comcrap encrypts qam, i could make the master b/e into a f/e only
[18:12:35] sphery: (or make it a combined backend/frontend, and get rid of the remote backend :)
[18:12:51] J-e-f-f-A: Kwisher_wrk: You have the "Prime" though, so CableCard, no? Or are they turning the "Copy Once" flag on or something?
[18:12:59] sphery: J-e-f-f-A: btw, that sounds like a very nice system
[18:14:00] Kwisher_wrk: J-e-f-f-A: yes, cablecard
[18:14:11] J-e-f-f-A: sphery: heh.. It's a big tower I got on clearance at Best Buy years ago – it's basically 24"x24"x8"... 6 5–1/4" bays, which have two hot-swap modules for 5 3.5" drives each, plus I have a few mounted internally. ;-)
[18:14:30] Kwisher_wrk: i did have tow pci tuners in it to record the free qam
[18:15:13] sphery: J-e-f-f-A: and it cools sufficiently well?
[18:15:17] Korny: J-e-f-f-A: my box . . . 15.19.11.jpg
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[18:15:57] J-e-f-f-A: sphery: Yeah, lots of 120mm fans. ;-) (1 in front, 2 in back, one blowing down right on the cards, plus psu fan.)
[18:16:14] sphery: nice
[18:16:30] sphery: and probably helps with heating costs this time of year :)
[18:16:57] Korny: I'm usign a 4u rack mount case, 15 hard drives, 6 120mm + 2 80mm fans for 72 dollars shipped >:)
[18:17:02] J-e-f-f-A: This gives you an idea of the size:
[18:17:21] Korny: nice
[18:17:33] J-e-f-f-A: That optical slot wasn't there – I fabbed that in because I took all the 'real' drive bays for the hotswap bays. ;-)
[18:18:18] J-e-f-f-A: sphery: Yeah... Oh, and the hot-swap drive bays each have an 80mm fan on the back of them.
[18:18:21] Korny: hmm its onsale
[18:18:52] sphery: Korny: 380w psu AND 15 hddS?
[18:18:53] J-e-f-f-A: I recently replaced them with high-flow, low-speed fans as they were starting to get noisy after ~5 years of 24x7 use. lol!
[18:19:01] sphery: oops, caps lock
[18:19:09] sphery: do you have other power for some?
[18:19:16] Korny: Haven't combined teh servers yet
[18:19:25] Korny: My Unraid box has a 650 watt
[18:19:29] J-e-f-f-A: I've got a 650 in my system.
[18:19:30] sphery: ah
[18:19:35] Korny: all are low power drives
[18:19:42] Korny: except for 2 7200 seagates
[18:20:18] Korny: that box right no idles at 40 watts and 60 with 4 recordings going on
[18:20:31] J-e-f-f-A: None of my drives are low power. I'm a power whore. ;-)
[18:21:05] J-e-f-f-A: last time I checked my box with my kill-o-watt, it was using about 270w recording 4 programs.
[18:21:12] sphery: anymore, though, non-low-power drives still do pretty good
[18:21:17] J-e-f-f-A: MuWaHaHa!
[18:21:30] sphery: 270 isn't bad
[18:21:35] Korny: I'm taking an amd a6 out of the mix trying to get below 100 watts with 15 drives >:)
[18:21:53] Korny: right now with the 2 systems running I pull about 170 watts at the wall
[18:21:59] sphery: and is > 20% of 650, which is good for 80 PLUS (or whatever they call it now)
[18:22:16] J-e-f-f-A: Oh,and that was with the x4 cpu – I've got a Phenom X6 now – probably should measure that again. ;-)
[18:22:17] sphery: though if your idle is < 130W...
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[18:23:55] sphery: ooh, 80 plus titanium requires 90% efficiency at 10
[18:23:56] sphery: %
[18:24:01] sphery: load
[18:24:41] sphery: though there's only one psu with that cert
[18:25:18] sphery: the Super Flower SF-600P14TE
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[18:54:23] Hydr0p0nX: anyone up for sending me a kill-o-watt ?
[18:54:35] Hydr0p0nX: i'm scared to know what mine pulls
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[18:57:40] ** sphery thinks there should be a waiting period before anyone can buy an Atom-based system, during which that person has to go around with a Kill-A-Watt and measure idle and loaded draw of various systems **
[18:58:15] sphery: at which point they say, "So, wait, an Atom isn't a power-efficient system, it's simply a power-constrained system?"
[18:59:05] Korny: my atoms draw as much as as my backend
[18:59:13] Korny: backend is 10x the machine if not more
[18:59:36] Korny: Atom chips are fine, its the chipset thats the problem
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[19:00:21] sphery: yeah, an idling (non-gaming/sensibly-chosen) system should be somewhere around the same power draw as an idling atom
[19:00:29] MartinT: my E-350 draws a lot less... even when playing hd videos
[19:02:13] sphery: the difference is that the atom draws only a little bit more at load--but processes the load slowly = for a long time--and other cpus can pull more power to process more quickly and get back idle power (so they draw more power, but for shorter times, when under load--and they can actually do what we ask of them :)
[19:03:50] sphery: I'm just worried that it won't be long before someone starts asking, "Has anyone got MythTV working on a Quark system?"
[19:04:26] Hydr0p0nX: that's when we all go AFK
[19:04:28] Hydr0p0nX: :)
[19:04:31] sphery: hehe
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[19:05:25] Hydr0p0nX: sphery, you know all the problems i've had getting audio over hdmi working, right?
[19:05:35] sphery: yeah
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[19:05:41] sphery: did you figure it out?
[19:05:45] Hydr0p0nX: kind of
[19:06:30] Hydr0p0nX: i decided hdmi audio was overrated, ordered a optical out header and pcie-1x extender cable
[19:06:48] sphery: hehe, cool
[19:07:04] Hydr0p0nX: optical out header arrived last night, so i now have 5.1 surround and hardware accelerated playback
[19:07:13] sphery: nice
[19:08:22] Hydr0p0nX: the extender is for when i get my old gaming card back (loaned out), if i decide to fight wit it again, i can have room for the card and my ceton :)
[19:08:48] Hydr0p0nX: gtx260 or something like that
[19:10:53] Hydr0p0nX: it'll take s/pdif out from the mobo header and send over the hdmi output if i want to do that, but, the fact that it's finally working somewhat like i want is enough for me to just leave it be for the time being
[19:11:13] sphery: speaking of which, I saw a GF GT640 for $39.99... is that one of the good ones for vdpau?
[19:11:21] sphery:
[19:12:01] Hydr0p0nX: ummm
[19:12:25] Hydr0p0nX: think so ? basically everything from the 8000 series to current will do some form of vdpau
[19:12:27] sphery: hehe, "Propeller Blade Technology"
[19:12:45] sphery: yeah, I heard that the 520 and 610/620 were bad
[19:12:55] sphery: was thinking it was somewhere around 640 that were back to good, again
[19:13:22] sphery: (where 220 could do good advanced 2x deint, but some of the 4's and 5's and 6's couldn't)
[19:13:37] sphery: anyway, just wondered
[19:13:58] Hydr0p0nX:
[19:14:13] Hydr0p0nX: has a pretty good write up of what cards support what features :)
[19:16:01] Korny: gt520 is perfectly fine
[19:16:08] Korny: at least for what I do
[19:16:21] Korny: the 510's were bad
[19:16:22] sphery: I heard it's good for 50hz advanced 2x deint
[19:16:32] sphery: but can't always do 60hz
[19:16:40] sphery: maybe that was only the 510
[19:16:51] sphery: anyway, still haven't decided whether to buy it
[19:16:56] Korny: gt520 I run the advanced profile
[19:17:07] Korny: the gt520 and gt610 are teh same card
[19:17:30] sphery: hmmm
[19:17:33] sphery: I can't keep up
[19:17:50] sphery: I thought once the 220 was out, it would be easy and they'd all just work for all of it
[19:18:25] Hydr0p0nX: yea same here
[19:18:58] Hydr0p0nX: i do like 3 months of research before building a new gaming rig and don't think about it again for 3–5 years
[19:19:08] sphery: maybe this is what I was (not-really) remembering:
[19:19:18] sphery: seems 640 is the lowest end card that's actually a kepler
[19:19:37] Hydr0p0nX: at which time, old gaming rig becomes a mythbox
[19:19:38] sphery: so wasn't "lowest end card that's good for vdpau"
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[19:26:10] Korny: odd well either way I've had 0 issues with teh 520
[19:26:21] Korny: but to each their own
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[19:28:04] Korny: hmmm gt640 around 100 dollars gt610 40  :/
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[19:28:31] stuartm: nvidia's insistence on re-branding their old models to make them appear 'new' really, really sucks
[19:28:44] stuartm: but I guess it fools enough people because they keep doing it
[19:29:08] Hydr0p0nX: yep
[19:29:52] Hydr0p0nX: I usually buy the middle of the line cards, generally gives me good enough performance while making sure I get current featuresets
[19:34:33] sphery: yeah, the 640 for $40 seems like a very discounted price, which is why I was asking/considering getting it
[19:36:17] stuartm: it's somewhat despressing that a six year old 9800 will still beat (heavily) a current gen mid-range card like the Gt 640 (on several, if not all, key criteria)
[19:37:28] stuartm: sphery: funny story, I was going to get the 640, but at some point between deciding that and actually purchasing it I became confused and ended up with a 630 instead
[19:37:42] sphery: hehe
[19:37:44] stuartm: I'm still not sure how that happened
[19:38:27] sphery: I once bought a book on JSTL when I was trying to buy one on JSF (they were next to each other in the list, and I clicked the wrong one without realizing it)
[19:38:56] stuartm: on a positive note, the 630 handles vdpau very well, at least everything I've thrown at it
[19:39:04] sphery: and the worst part is that JSTL was something so easy the book was useless
[19:39:14] sphery: cool
[19:39:18] sphery: might get that 640, then
[19:39:34] stuartm: wouldn't have minded the extra power for casual gaming though
[19:40:09] stuartm: the 630 is actually a 440 or something
[19:41:03] sphery: thanks for the info, all
[19:43:11] stuartm: although the 630 managed advanced deinterlacing with 1080i and h.264, I've stuck with temporal as the 'smooth' filter with the advanced deinterlacer actually degrades the picture quality
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[19:43:27] stuartm: not sure why anyone would actually use it
[19:50:47] houms: anyone have any suggestions with using mythtv to record OTA and then have them available to roku ? I assume i can either run the myth encode script to get it in the proper format, or leave them as is and use plex to encode on the fly? Sphery you alluded to using a computer and mythfrontend earlier. does that imply the computer recording OTA or internet content?
[19:56:20] justinh: what the hell are the politicians thinking now? A subscription-based BBC? ARGHHH. Oh well I've often said that when TV goes away from FTA, we do without television forever
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[19:57:22] justinh: BTW what's a GT210 then? a 6200GT ? lol
[19:57:52] J-e-f-f-A: houms: A quick google turned up this wiki article:
[19:58:15] J-e-f-f-A: I can't comment beyond that as I don't own a Roku. ;-)
[19:58:50] justinh: they're sold here as Now TV.. for about £10
[19:59:02] justinh: just as 'hackable' as the others apparently
[19:59:46] justinh: were it not for the fact it only supports h.264 I'd have one already
[20:00:04] J-e-f-f-A: justinh: wow, that seems cheap. They start at $50 USD here
[20:00:28] justinh: it's subsidised in the hope (HAHAHAHAHAHA) people will sign up to services
[20:00:28] houms: thanks jeff. that seems to be going down the option one route i was referring to. Yeah that sounds very cheap. I got the $60 model
[20:00:47] houms: unfortunately I needed something to keep the wife happy
[20:01:09] J-e-f-f-A: houms: You're in the wrong channel for that – LOL!
[20:01:14] justinh: they have stupid deals like pa a quarter of a channel package's monthly subs fee to watch it for one whole day
[20:01:38] J-e-f-f-A: justinh: Don't you guys have a yearly tax that pays for your TV?
[20:01:39] Korny: That seems like so much more effort then its worth(roku as a frontend)
[20:01:46] houms: yeah unfortunately jeff i do not think irc houses such a channel :P
[20:01:56] justinh: J-e-f-f-A: yeah but you pay that on top of any subs
[20:02:23] J-e-f-f-A: Our OTA tv is free, except for the 20+ minutes of commercials per hour. grr.
[20:02:29] justinh: and unlike channels you have to subscribe to, there's no crappy conditional access
[20:02:33] justinh: YET
[20:02:35] stuartm: justinh: not politicians, it was a BBC internal study – however the study said that most people would only voluntarily pay for the BBC if it cost the same as the current license fee
[20:03:08] justinh: yeah well. BBC internal people.. politicians.. same diff
[20:03:28] houms: Korny not sure I have any options really. How do I get access to local content that i cannot watch in live ?
[20:03:37] Korny: ?
[20:03:40] stuartm: but on a positive note, they also implied that if the BBC split sport from the rest of their offerings, most people would actually pay less – those actually wanting the sport would have to pay extra
[20:03:45] Korny: WHy not just build a mythtv frontend?
[20:04:03] justinh: stuartm: yay no more sport on my telly!
[20:04:15] justinh: no more olympics, world cup... tennis...
[20:04:27] justinh: actually I'd pay to get those off the radio too
[20:04:35] J-e-f-f-A: justinh: Did you ever upgrade your CRT to an LCD or Plasma yet? ;-)
[20:04:57] justinh: I like listening to 5Live at night... and despite them having a dedicated sports channel they take over every bloody big sporting event
[20:05:16] justinh: J-e-f-f-A: hell no. not yet but soon. When we move house. I'm not carting that monster up North
[20:05:20] stuartm: however it's not going to happen, the logistics alone (every subscriber would need a CAM and card for every TV) would make it unwieldy
[20:06:13] houms: not sure i follow? building a frontend basically means switching between the tv, roku, and mythfrontend. this makes it more complicated i think. at least that is what the lady of the house will say
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[20:06:32] justinh: J-e-f-f-A: it's causing me a bit of grief actually – with regard to what do I do with my crappy frontend? I'm tending towards doing away with it altogether & just use the backend
[20:07:11] stuartm: one interesting fact was revealed, 92% of the channels watched Sky/Virgin customers are FTA – meaning they are paying £30+ a month for maybe 2–3 channels at the most
[20:07:25] justinh: the fools. LOL
[20:07:33] stuartm: of Sky customers, just 1.5% watch the sport channels
[20:07:41] J-e-f-f-A: justinh: I've been using computer montor LCDs as TVs for years... And a decent 2.1 speaker set for audio... They're about 1/2 the cost of a HDTV.
[20:07:44] Hydr0p0nX: I have about 6 channels that I was regularly
[20:07:44] justinh: I never did understand why people PAY for channels with adverts. why PAY?
[20:07:50] J-e-f-f-A: And usually have higher resolution too.
[20:08:00] justinh: J-e-f-f-A: a 56" monitor would be a bit expensive
[20:08:12] stuartm: i.e. 98.5% of Sky customers are subsidising the sports channels for a handful of people
[20:08:21] J-e-f-f-A: justinh: hehehehehehehe. I'd be willing to bet you don't have a 56" CRT though. ;-)
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[20:08:29] justinh: no. it's 32"
[20:08:49] justinh: stuartm: that's nasty maths. I wonder how many know they're being duped
[20:08:52] Hydr0p0nX: but I flip between a lot of the others here and there
[20:09:11] justinh: oh wait, you forget about them paying for Sky developing their 'awesome' DVR
[20:09:34] Hydr0p0nX: oooh
[20:09:48] justinh: their 'awesome' crappy unreliable cludgy crashy nasty DVR. Heh
[20:10:18] Hydr0p0nX: speaking of 'awesome' DVRs ... hopefully not hitting on taboo or anything but, how big of a deal is it to setup my to automatically rip dvds when they are inserted ?
[20:10:32] justinh: major
[20:10:36] J-e-f-f-A: Heh, when I first started with MythTV, my Dish Network PVR was just a tuner for MythTV. lol!
[20:11:00] justinh: just sit there with as many machines as you can muster & rip them yourself.. then set up a big handbrake queue
[20:11:48] J-e-f-f-A: Hydr0p0nX: Plus with all the 'copy protection' crap they have now (discs with format errors that play fine in a set-top DVD, but don't rip well), it can be a pain.
[20:12:16] justinh: stuartm: BTW, anybody ever says commercial boxen change channels faster than mythtv – show em YouView. Ugh
[20:12:18] J-e-f-f-A: I just use K9 Copy and only rip the main feature, no menus. That works 99% of the time.
[20:12:30] Hydr0p0nX: that's what i'm looking to do
[20:12:47] Hydr0p0nX: just want to rip all of them and get them in myth
[20:13:08] J-e-f-f-A: Hydr0p0nX: I don't re-encode or anything, just rip the main title. Takes about 15 mins for a full movie on my Phenom X6.
[20:13:11] justinh: fine, so long as they don't have that nasty new protection
[20:13:28] justinh: anything in the last couple of years is likely to feature it
[20:13:32] stuartm: justinh: nothings as slow as the UI on Virgin boxes, I'd just can't understand how they consider that acceptable
[20:13:47] justinh: and it generally means stumping up money for a windows program to do the ripping
[20:13:47] Hydr0p0nX: but charter has the ultimate in stupid
[20:13:49] J-e-f-f-A: justinh: I've been able to rip all but 2 or 3 like that. But if you try to rip the whole disc, menus and all, all bets are off.
[20:14:10] justinh: stuartm: our VM box is okay, even with the red button stuff like iPlayer
[20:14:17] justinh: it's faster than the youview junk
[20:14:27] justinh: maybe you've got TiVo ;-)
[20:14:37] stuartm: justinh: MakeMKV runs on linux and handles anything I've thrown at it – DVD or Blu-ray
[20:14:39] J-e-f-f-A: Hydr0p0nX: You have Charter too? I moved a few months ago and had to downgrade from FiOS to Charter... Let's just say charter suuxxxx.
[20:14:49] justinh: stuartm: even recent purchases?
[20:15:00] justinh: oh wait you said even bluray. heh
[20:15:20] stuartm: justinh: it's the V HD box, although it's no different in speed to the old cisco? box that it replaced
[20:15:38] justinh: I had to get erm.. a friend to rip my wife's take that concert DVD... I just couldn't do it
[20:16:13] justinh: stuartm: oh the HD stuff. Never touched it
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[20:16:22] stuartm: justinh: it's part open source, part closed source, but at least for now it can be used for free (need to update the free key every few weeks) or a one-off purchase
[20:16:25] J-e-f-f-A: Humm... I must have a broken table or something – I can't schedule a program to record... mythweb just sits there for a while, then comes back and the status is still "Never Record"... And frontend doesn't 'take' either... /me turns on more verbose logging...
[20:16:30] justinh: paying for HD.. it's a quaint idea
[20:17:03] stuartm: you don't pay for the 'free' HD channels
[20:17:22] stuartm: you just need a box capable of decoding them, hence the V HD box
[20:17:26] J-e-f-f-A: Heh, "HD" is "free" in the US – except that you have to pay an extra $10 for each HD box vs $3–5 for each SD box.
[20:17:26] justinh: no extra for the box?
[20:17:43] justinh: not that it matters. We'll be out of here by the end of Feb all being well
[20:18:11] justinh: and if VM don't come round to claim their hardware, it's their loss. I'm not selling it on ebay for them
[20:18:20] stuartm: justinh: one off charge, think it was £20 – which I grumbled about, but there was no point in having an HD TV if the cable box could only do SD
[20:18:55] justinh: no cable where we're going, which is both a good and a bad thing
[20:18:58] stuartm: justinh: actually channel changes/red button is OK – it's purely the menus/guide, especially the on-demand/catch up menus
[20:19:02] Korny: J-e-f-f-A: that is why my wife allows me to tinker with mythtv
[20:19:13] Korny: it saves us 50 dollars a month with comcast
[20:19:25] stuartm: justinh: no FTTP at the new place?
[20:19:35] justinh: FTTC? sure
[20:19:41] Korny: 3 HD TV's and a DVR fee would be 50+ dollars a month]
[20:19:45] J-e-f-f-A: Korny: Hehehe. I bought a Ceton Infini-TV4 PCIe for that ;-)
[20:20:01] justinh: stuartm: just no cable. Gonna be on ADSL :-(
[20:20:11] stuartm: BT are supposed to be doing FTTP for some new builds (probably taking a bribe from the builders though)
[20:20:11] J-e-f-f-A: Korny: Previously I had two HD-PVRs connected to HD STBs – at $10/STB.
[20:20:38] justinh: mind, broadband over copper has grown up a lot since I first got cable
[20:20:46] ** stuartm goes to watch TV **
[20:20:47] Korny: ick, I have a HD HR prime, wish I had the extra tuner like you do, but very rarely do I run out of cable tuners with 3
[20:20:59] stuartm: justinh: I'd still opt for cable over adsl
[20:21:09] J-e-f-f-A: Korny: They even have a 6-tuner version now from what I understand.
[20:21:12] justinh: me too.. but we can't get it up there
[20:21:21] Korny: 1 cable card?
[20:21:33] justinh: I wasn't staying in a job I hated in a place I hate just so I can keep on getting cable LOL
[20:21:52] J-e-f-f-A: The neat thing is that CableCards support up to 6 streams – and the cable company cannot charge for how many streams you use it for! So $3 a month lets me record 4 programs at a time (or if I had a 6-tuner model, 6)
[20:22:23] Korny: I just love the stupid simplicity of the HDHR prime  :/
[20:22:38] Korny: Maybe in the future I'll upgrade
[20:23:02] ** justinh wonders what running cables in newly built houses is like **
[20:23:08] houms: korny do you know if hdhr works with plex?
[20:23:12] Korny: . . . 0124202258:s
[20:23:17] J-e-f-f-A: Korny: I don't really need 4 tuners, but bought the Ceton with a 'bonus' from work that came in the form of credit.
[20:24:33] Korny: justinh: easy, to bad they will get pissy if you do it yourself
[20:24:39] Korny: because everything has to be to "code"
[20:24:48] MartinT: justinh: I'm on BT Fibre (well through entanet) and it's awesome... 4MB/s constant
[20:25:35] MartinT: not bothered upgrading to 80mbits, because, lets face it, who needs to download anything, regularly, at more than 4MB/s?
[20:26:07] J-e-f-f-A: Korny: Wow – IIRC, I paid about $250 for my 4-tuner one ~2 years ago.
[20:26:38] MartinT: Friend of mine is on the 80Mb/s service, and get's like 7MB/s
[20:28:31] J-e-f-f-A: MartinT: I had the equivalent here in the USA – Verizon FiOS (Fiber-Optic Service) – and had 35/35 service. I consistently got 42+Mbps download, and 23Mbps up. Note that verizon didn't limit my upload speed – it was their crappy router. Another friend had FiOS and used a good router and was getting 42Mbps up too.
[20:29:20] MartinT: yeah, but who needs more..
[20:29:57] justinh: 2MB/sec will be fine
[20:30:13] justinh: at least til the kids are older. heh
[20:30:14] J-e-f-f-A: Yeah, agreed. I have since moved, and only have Cable service available. They claim it's 30/4, but I rarely (if ever) see near that.
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[20:30:54] MartinT: I download from MSDN alot, and even then, it takes like <20minutes to download Visual Studio (i.e. a full DVD)
[20:31:49] MartinT: justinh: that's what I'm worried about... he's only 15 months, so I've got a couple of years...
[20:32:01] J-e-f-f-A: Heh, I remember when I got my first Broadband internet service through the cable company – it was 1.5Mbps down, 256Kbps up. I downloaded "WinLinux 2000" – a 540MB cd ISO in about 43 minutes.
[20:32:18] justinh: and when they're old enough to use the internet on their own... they'll be time limited & supervised anyhow
[20:32:35] J-e-f-f-A: I used a program called "Get Smart", which did a bittorrent-like download method to pull pieces from all over the place, and saturated the link. ;-)
[20:33:35] Hydr0p0nX: i have the 4tuner ceton
[20:33:54] MartinT: my first broadband service was 256k....
[20:33:57] MartinT: plusnet
[20:34:11] Hydr0p0nX: pretty happy with it so far, even have the ctntad driver for when 14.04 rolls out
[20:34:48] stuartm: justinh: if you want to run cables, best to tell the builders before they've put up the plasterboard, they'll probably be happy to do it for you – it's a lot easier to run cable in a new build because it's all plaster board with voids behind but it still means putting holes in the wall at some point so doing it during the building is preferable
[20:34:50] Hydr0p0nX: mine was dual ds3s :)
[20:35:02] justinh: stuartm: it's erm.. finished already
[20:35:07] stuartm: ah :/
[20:35:30] justinh: hence the hope to be in by the end of Feb ;-)
[20:35:31] Hydr0p0nX: but i worked at an ISP
[20:35:33] J-e-f-f-A: Hydr0p0nX: Yeah, that was the other thing with Charter – needed a 'Tuning Adapter' – got that sorted out though, and all is workiing fine now. (Didn't need a Tuning Adapter with FiOS)
[20:36:11] stuartm: well, chaining together straightened lengths of wire coat hanger came in handy when I was running cables back in the 90s
[20:36:33] justinh: stuartm: it became the show home just before xmas.. so got all the best fixtures etc thrown in
[20:37:29] justinh: so top spec, same price.. then 5% off.. plus whatever I can get out of them for saying that tunnel is disused when it isn't :P
[20:38:48] stuartm: small 2"x"2 hole in the plasterboard, cable taped to end of wire, then feed it down, with luck you can go from floor to floor that way, but it's fiddly – if you're really lucky there be be some accessible trunking or similar
[20:39:37] stuartm: because of the studs going vertically is easier than horizontally
[20:39:47] justinh: heh yeah been there before
[20:40:12] justinh: but don't they use insulated boards between rooms now? I suppose I'll find out eventually
[20:40:27] justinh: shower time I think.. been in the loft again
[20:40:30] stuartm: not sure what the current regs require internally
[20:40:50] MartinT: tried that in our flat... hit a cross beam so couldn't go up :(
[20:41:01] J-e-f-f-A: It's a brand-new home, so hopefully it's got some wiring run already... ;-)
[20:41:45] MartinT: I don't know why it's not standard in new builds now... the internet is not something that's reserved for techies anymore...
[20:42:27] MartinT: I suppose WiFi is now the norm... but with all the streaming stuff going on, you'd think that they'd just put it in...
[20:44:24] Hydr0p0nX: I have decided when i build a house, it will have 2 outlets per wall, with a conduit between each stud in each bedroom and a conduit every 2–3 studs in the linving and kitchen areas
[20:44:50] Hydr0p0nX: it'll be expensive, but save soooo much headache
[20:47:56] afpup: I retrofitted an older home – ran conduit from each box (1 per wall) down into a common point in the basement – so much easier to run whatever I need now.
[20:48:02] J-e-f-f-A: When we did some construction at my church, I put in PVC pipes to run cables through to the projectors. That way I could run them even after the walls were up.
[20:49:01] justinh: I retrofitted all the network cabling in this house too.. dead easy where there's a crawlspace
[20:49:15] J-e-f-f-A: And in my [old] house, I had drilled holes at the top and bottom of an interior wall (from the Attic down, and from the cellar up), and ran several wires down there...
[20:49:40] justinh: ugh they might've used foil coated dry lining board for the internal walls
[20:49:42] J-e-f-f-A: (IE: Not in the sheetrock/wall board – into the middle, hollow part of the wall)
[20:50:07] justinh: J-e-f-f-A: was gonna say that must've been a long drill !
[20:50:26] J-e-f-f-A: LOL
[20:51:19] justinh: MartinT: no, WIFI is king! WIFI IS KING! N.B. WIFI IS CEAP
[20:51:47] justinh: anyway, wireless my giddy aunt. Look at all the wall warts
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[20:52:41] justinh: CEAP? CRAP. oops
[20:52:57] justinh: handy most of the time, pretty much useless when you really depend on it
[20:53:49] Hydr0p0nX: eh, I have most everything hooked up over wifi, just because i'm to lazy to crawl under the house
[20:54:32] justinh: ye shall reap what ye sow
[20:54:52] Hydr0p0nX: works well enough for my needs
[20:54:58] justinh: try splurging a 16GB card full of files from a camcorder in a hurry
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[20:55:15] Hydr0p0nX: it's 802.11n so i can get files fairly quickly
[20:55:21] justinh: gigabit ethernet is marvellous
[20:55:36] J-e-f-f-A: +1 for Gig ethernet. ;-)
[20:55:37] Hydr0p0nX: yea, i have my gaming machine on it
[20:55:46] justinh: I think my stupid wireless thing is only b
[20:55:58] justinh: but even then it gets nothing like its advertised speed
[20:56:09] justinh: even when there's only a door in the way
[20:56:47] J-e-f-f-A: justinh: And depending on what type of wireless router/AP you have, you may be slowing your whole network down to B speeds because of that one adapter.
[20:57:16] justinh: nah, the wireless thing goes into one port of the gig E switch
[20:57:35] justinh: files get transferred as fast as they can come off & go down onto disk
[20:57:40] J-e-f-f-A: Well, I mean your wireless network, not your physical network. ;-)
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[20:58:28] justinh: there's usually just a phone or two.. and a laptop on the wireless
[20:58:48] justinh: dunno ... does my laptop have N wireless? Maybe
[20:59:18] sleezio: hello, is there a quick/easy way to have the epg refresh itself? for some reason show descriptions are being placed on wrong shows, it isn't from poor signal/reception as every channel has 85% or higher signal
[20:59:20] justinh: maybe I just need an N router.. which doubtless I'll get when I move to a new ISP
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[21:02:42] justinh: ah the laptop has N. Think all the phones do too
[21:04:23] afpup: justinh: FWIW, I do have an 8ft long drill bit. Something like , but I got it back when I worked for Bell... so not sure where they got it from.
[21:05:00] justinh: probably the phreaking investigation dept.
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[21:25:07] justinh: just remembered Jobs & Woz were phreakers
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