| Sunday, July 28th, 2013, 00:10 UTC | ||
| [00:10:13] | dshay: | Getting some odd compile messages – just did a git pull today from head. |
| [00:10:18] | dshay: | ././libmyth/test/test_audioconvert/test_audioconvert: symbol lookup error: /usr/local/src/mythtv27/mythtv/mythtv/libs/libmyth/test/test_audioconvert/../../ libmyth-0.27.so.0: undefined symbol: _ZN15MythUIComposite14SetTextFromMapERK5QHashI7QStringS1_E |
| [00:10:18] | dshay: | error: A unit test failed. |
| [00:10:42] | dshay: | I have done a make clean/distclean cycle, but to no avail. Any other ideas? |
| [00:11:07] | dshay: | Two other undefined symbol errors as well – one on libmyth, one on libmythhdhomerun |
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| [01:09:27] | bill6502: | dshay: git clean -xfdn, see what it reports. Then run it again without the n (no-op) option. Failing that, you could do a: make all_no_test. I have no clue why make disclean isn't working for you. |
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| [01:37:54] | wagnerrp: | anyone around to check something? |
| [01:38:56] | bill6502: | if I can, sure |
| [01:39:05] | wagnerrp: | nevermind, i got it |
| [01:39:18] | bill6502: | that was easy |
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| [01:45:57] | davidshay: | bill6502, tried the git clean, it did remove some things, but same result. Seems really off to skip the tests |
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| [01:49:29] | bill6502: | davidshay: i always let the (fairly new) unit tests run too, but to see if you can get past the error, it's worth a try |
| [01:50:42] | davidshay: | well, it does get past it |
| [01:51:13] | davidshay: | I'll see if it runs, I guess. Time to back up the database... |
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| [02:29:30] | davidshay: | Well, all working, not sure if the tests are invalid are what. Still would like to have 11316 / 11318 fixed... |
| [02:31:01] | wagnerrp: | both are marked for 0.27 |
| [02:31:15] | wagnerrp: | with any luck, both will be fixed within the month |
| [02:31:47] | davidshay: | yeah, saw that. If anyone needs help debugging, let me know. Seems like it only occurs in slave/master configs, and I can pretty much trigger them on demand. |
| [02:32:19] | wagnerrp: | ill have to fire my old slave up and see if i can reproduce |
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| [02:46:40] | Korny: | Hmm mmoving into new house soon and debating on to do home runs to every single room with cat6 or to setup a switch in the upstairs for the bedrooms and running it downstairs to the "server" room |
| [02:46:57] | wagnerrp: | home runs? |
| [02:47:40] | Korny: | Like bedroom 1 all the way downstairs to a 24 port switch in the basement vs bedroom to upstairs switch to downstairs switch |
| [02:48:19] | wagnerrp: | better to just run full length lines |
| [02:48:31] | wagnerrp: | get some metal conduit, and fish a whole bundle of wires through it |
| [02:48:37] | htpc_: | Korny: I vote for cat 6 |
| [02:48:54] | wagnerrp: | then branch out from the top of the conduit just like you had a switch up there |
| [02:49:24] | Korny: | Any issues with running cat6 in an attic? I know temps get upto 140+ degrees |
| [02:49:38] | wagnerrp: | if you're concerned about that, get plenum rated cables |
| [02:50:37] | wagnerrp: | understand that you're looking at double or triple the price |
| [02:50:41] | Korny: | Thats so much more expensive |
| [02:50:43] | Korny: | lol |
| [02:51:11] | wagnerrp: | as i understand it, plenum rated means if there is a fire, they don't produce toxic fumes |
| [02:51:24] | Korny: | I doubt an attic gets hot enough to hurt the shielding considering that you can run romex in an attic |
| [02:51:39] | Korny: | Well plenum is rated to run through heat ducts |
| [02:51:46] | Korny: | and return lines is what I was told |
| [02:52:30] | wagnerrp: | yes, but it's not due to any damage that might occur from being in a heating duct |
| [02:52:39] | wagnerrp: | but due to its behavior in a fire |
| [02:52:42] | Korny: | yes |
| [02:53:15] | Korny: | Could I use PVC conduit vs metal or does metal actually provide some shielding? |
| [02:53:39] | wagnerrp: | you don't really need to use either |
| [02:53:46] | wagnerrp: | it just makes it easier to fish the lines |
| [02:54:09] | Korny: | Well I'm thinking in terms of "future" proofing so I only have to have patch drywall once |
| [02:54:09] | Korny: | hehe |
| [02:54:28] | wagnerrp: | you're doing this from the basement to the attic, what drywall? |
| [02:54:40] | Korny: | The house has 4 levels |
| [02:54:52] | Korny: | that are offset by half a floor |
| [02:54:54] | wagnerrp: | and you expect there's not going to be any straight shot? |
| [02:55:02] | Korny: | There won't be |
| [02:55:12] | Korny: | well possibly |
| [02:55:44] | Korny: | but I'd have to go through insulation |
| [02:55:53] | Korny: | which I don't want to do |
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| [02:57:03] | Korny: | basically the house is built into a hill, the basement then go up half a flight to the 1st floor then another half flight to second floor then another half flight to 3rd floor, basement is under 2nd floor and 3rd floor is over 1st floor if that makes sense |
| [02:57:28] | wagnerrp: | it's a "split level" home |
| [02:57:36] | Korny: | yeah |
| [02:58:19] | Korny: | I may not even run it into the attic because on 1st floor part of it is drop ceiling in the laundry room |
| [02:58:39] | Korny: | So I should be able to access 2 of the bedrooms without to much problem |
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| [03:18:05] | Korny: | Well considering my house is not balloon construction, I will still need to drill holes between each floor which will require me to cut otu a small amount of drywall |
| [03:18:15] | Korny: | bah stupid thing |
| [03:18:32] | Korny: | I had scrolled up and thought you were asking the same question wagnerrp lol |
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| [03:21:23] | wagnerrp: | ugh... i hate daylight savings time |
| [03:22:11] | [R]: | wagnerrp: move to a locale that doesn't use it |
| [03:23:40] | wagnerrp: | i still have to fix handling of it in the bindings |
| [03:23:57] | wagnerrp: | there's all of about four hours out of the year that it doesn't work properly |
| [03:24:10] | wagnerrp: | and thats four hours that only don't work because people are retarded |
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| [03:25:02] | [R]: | lol |
| [03:25:04] | [R]: | why so? |
| [03:25:25] | [R]: | wagnerrp: btw, i'm using a pogoplug... 800mhz arm... it's so freakin painful... how do people run backends on this crap? |
| [03:25:31] | wagnerrp: | because there's no logical reason to have daylight sayings time |
| [03:25:37] | wagnerrp: | hence, people who want it are retarded |
| [03:25:38] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [03:26:35] | [R]: | although i run a 1ghz emulated arm at work... and its much better... it may have to do with armv5 vs armv7 |
| [03:26:56] | wagnerrp: | yeah, aren't the pogoplugs old ARM11s like the RPi? |
| [03:27:27] | [R]: | Processor : Feroceon 88FR131 rev 1 (v5l) |
| [03:27:30] | [R]: | isn't that armv5? |
| [03:27:56] | wagnerrp: | yeah |
| [03:28:17] | wagnerrp: | oh, ARM9E, not even an ARM11 |
| [03:28:39] | [R]: | at work i'm using a cortex a9 |
| [03:30:17] | wagnerrp: | seems an 800MHz ARM9E is slightly lower performance than the 700MHz ARM11 in an RPi |
| [03:30:50] | wagnerrp: | well... about the same, within margin of error |
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| [06:11:05] | Shadow__X: | [R]: is your pogoplug a mobile or v4? |
| [06:11:44] | Shadow__X: | those are known to be noticeable slower than the e02's with a 1ghz cpu |
| [06:11:52] | Shadow__X: | also it has less ram |
| [06:12:21] | [R]: | mobile |
| [06:13:11] | Shadow__X: | [R]: if you plan to run linux on other ones are want a bit faster performance check out the e02's |
| [06:14:03] | [R]: | ah |
| [06:14:05] | [R]: | oh well |
| [06:14:13] | [R]: | once its set up it'll just chug away |
| [06:14:47] | Shadow__X: | also if you plan to buy more checkout slickdeals or ebay. As there have been sales on them. Not that long ago there were mobiles for $15 |
| [06:16:09] | Shadow__X: | [R]: http://fortysomethinggeek.blogspot.com/2013/0 . . . -review.html |
| [06:16:26] | Shadow__X: | internal IO was faster because the interfaces were better but network io is slower |
| [06:16:46] | [R]: | well ist not doing much |
| [06:16:48] | [R]: | not a big deal |
| [06:17:04] | Shadow__X: | did you check power consumption?. |
| [06:17:08] | [R]: | no |
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| [06:17:33] | Shadow__X: | i am pretty sure more if not all of them are under 8 watts |
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| [10:00:34] | MMlosh: | Huh? Did ubuntu-ports stop distributing mythtv arm build? |
| [10:03:17] | MMlosh: | It turned out I had multiverse disabled.. |
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| [13:02:32] | lux_2: | hi |
| [13:03:58] | lux_2: | systemctl stop mythbackend doesn't work, what could be the reason for this? |
| [13:04:18] | lux_2: | in other words: i can't stop the mythbackend daemon |
| [13:05:05] | lautriv: | lux_2, maybe you see the backend running at 100% right now ? |
| [13:05:28] | lux_2: | ah now it completed |
| [13:05:40] | lux_2: | but why does it take so long to stop |
| [13:05:41] | lux_2: | ? |
| [13:05:55] | lux_2: | nope, it's not running any jobs right now |
| [13:06:14] | lautriv: | could be in a progress of mythfilldatabase or io/ wait. |
| [13:07:17] | lux_2: | lautriv: how can i find out? |
| [13:08:00] | lautriv: | lux_2, since it stopped in the meantime, you can't. i assume if you try to start/stop again it'll be faster now. |
| [13:08:15] | lux_2: | systemd kills mythbackend because it didn't exit in a specified timeframe |
| [13:08:36] | lux_2: | nope, it's still slow |
| [13:09:38] | lautriv: | lux_2, i observed mythbackend can sometimes catchup a strange race-condition. my solution is a script that checks it eack 5 minutes and acts on demand then. |
| [13:09:40] | lux_2: | i started it from console and it neither exits there, what could be the reason? |
| [13:10:21] | lux_2: | i started it from console, pressed ctrl+c, but nothing happens |
| [13:10:27] | lautriv: | lux_2, how did you start from console ? |
| [13:10:37] | lux_2: | su mythtv; mythbackend |
| [13:11:38] | lautriv: | lux_2, that would run the backend as mythtv, mine runs as root b/c hardware-access. |
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| [13:12:14] | lux_2: | lautriv: my backend always runs as user mythtv |
| [13:13:05] | lux_2: | now i get an sql error from mythbackend it seems |
| [13:13:43] | lautriv: | lux_2, error is ? |
| [13:15:21] | lautriv: | ok, was in the wrong assumtion ... actually my backend runs also as mythtv |
| [13:15:21] | lux_2: | lautriv: http://paste2.org/D4wMHd7j |
| [13:16:45] | lautriv: | lux_2, seems to be a result of the systemd kill b/c backend got no ACK before dies, it tried to re-send that one. |
| [13:18:06] | lux_2: | lautriv: what tries to resend the ACK? |
| [13:18:32] | lux_2: | i thought mythbackend sends the ACK to systemd? |
| [13:20:45] | lautriv: | lux_2, i assume this way : mythbacked -> mysql "create someentry" then systemd -> mythbackend "die you rotten app". since it was not reaching mysql -> mythbackend "done, ready" the new start of mythbackend tried mythbackend -> mysql "create this thingie again" |
| [13:22:14] | lux_2: | so you think mythbackend tries to recreate the mysql entry? but what does that have to do with mythbackend not exiting? |
| [13:23:33] | lautriv: | lux_2, the atomic action "create that" may have run in some delay caused by heavy load. |
| [13:24:09] | lux_2: | lautriv: how can i fix mythbackend exiting so slow then? |
| [13:24:47] | lautriv: | lux_2, don't use systemd or try to fix one of his ugly scripts |
| [13:24:51] | lux_2: | ah now it exits quicker |
| [13:25:13] | lautriv: | ....like i said |
| [13:25:19] | lux_2: | now it just took 2 seconds to quit that's ok :> |
| [13:26:01] | lautriv: | most of my issues went away since i put mysql on a separate spindle. |
| [13:26:02] | lux_2: | now it seems to take longer again :/ |
| [13:26:17] | lux_2: | spindle? machine you mean? |
| [13:26:36] | lautriv: | dedicated hdd to not move the heads 100 times a second. |
| [13:27:01] | lux_2: | my mysql is on a ssd, that should be fine |
| [13:27:18] | lautriv: | you like to burn hardware ? |
| [13:27:41] | lux_2: | lautriv: why would that burn hardware? :o |
| [13:28:42] | lux_2: | well, now my machine stops mythbackend, suspends, resumes, and restarts mythbackend fine, that's good enough, i think i can live with the long time it takes to suspend :> |
| [13:28:59] | lautriv: | lux_2, ssd has a limited write-count and also flushes whole pages, guess what happens if you write each crap like mysql,logs, ctimes and thelike all the time |
| [13:29:55] | lux_2: | lautriv: does mysql write so much to disk? |
| [13:31:10] | lautriv: | lux_2, mysql does what mythbackend like to do in mythconverg which is a crapload, any mythfilldatabase, any record, any ..... |
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| [13:32:56] | lux_2: | lautriv: problem is my mythbackend runs on a laptop and i can't replace the disk (anymore) :/ |
| [13:33:49] | lautriv: | lux_2, you will see how long it lasts before ......can't find <randomfile> |
| [13:34:41] | lux_2: | lautriv: would it be possible to put mysql in a ramdisk? but that would risk dataloss when power failures occur i guess |
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| [13:35:13] | lux_2: | humm... can you put mysql on a samba share? or may that be problematic? |
| [13:36:40] | lautriv: | lux_2, the issue is, flash-cells are written above 10 Volts and this is compareable to atomic sandblasting. mysql can act via network so no reason for nfs/samba/whatever. |
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| [13:38:11] | lux_2: | lautriv: i don't have a second machine running with linux, can i run mysql server on windows? |
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| [13:39:40] | lautriv: | the issue is, wherever the database resides this machine is assumed to be the master-backend and there is no backend for winblows. |
| [13:39:55] | serenityrox: | Hi, I am wondering if anyone knows how to make mythtv work on 2 different subnets. Backend is on 10.1.11.xxx, and the frontend is on 10.1.12.xxx I can't seem to get the channels to stream to it. Using Pfsense as the firewall, and as the openvpn server |
| [13:40:39] | lux_2: | lautriv: could i put a usb stick on the laptop and put mysql on there? or would that fail similarly quickly? |
| [13:41:20] | lautriv: | lux_2, the stick would be slower and die even faster but is way chaeper and a backup can help there. |
| [13:42:00] | lautriv: | serenityrox, is the backend only there or multihomed ? |
| [13:42:20] | serenityrox: | it is the master backend |
| [13:42:26] | serenityrox: | using xbmc as the frontend |
| [13:42:45] | lux_2: | lautriv: hum only other way would be to plug my external hdd to the laptop |
| [13:43:08] | lautriv: | serenityrox, that was not the question, is the master-backend only equipped with 1 physical net ? |
| [13:43:40] | lux_2: | lautriv: or i migrate my pvr setup to windows. can you recommend something similar in recording features for windows? |
| [13:43:47] | lautriv: | lux_2, that would last much longer, probably longer you like to use this laptop ;) |
| [13:44:17] | lux_2: | lautriv: yeah i would like to keep the laptop, runs just fine :> |
| [13:44:27] | lautriv: | lux_2, why not kicking that windows and use the linux-backend there ? |
| [13:44:38] | lux_2: | lautriv: so can you (or someone else) recommend an alternative to mythtv for windows? |
| [13:44:45] | serenityrox: | lurativ: it has three gige nics it also is only using two of those at the moment. Both nics are on GiGE pipes. |
| [13:45:10] | lux_2: | lautriv: might be an option but i like to play games from time to time, and i need win for that |
| [13:45:21] | lautriv: | serenityrox, why not putting the available NIC on that subnet ? |
| [13:45:24] | ** lautriv -> eat pizza, brb ** | |
| [13:46:12] | serenityrox: | It is being used for a VM. Also this is all over openvpn. So the physical nic wouldn't be capable would it? |
| [13:46:31] | htpc_: | lux_2: have you tried play on linux, yet? |
| [13:46:43] | lux_2: | htpc_: not really |
| [13:47:14] | serenityrox: | lurativ: It is being used for a VM. Also this is all over openvpn. So the physical nic wouldn't be capable would it? |
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| [13:47:49] | lux_2: | lautriv: i could get one of these small external hdds, i think that might be the best option. lower power consumption than a big hdd and smaller |
| [13:47:52] | htpc_: | Anyone have fceux working with mythgame? |
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| [13:51:49] | lux_2: | lautriv: wow i just looked at the prices and these external hdds can really be gotten cheap |
| [13:53:21] | lux_2: | lautriv: hum guess there was an error with the prices :( |
| [14:02:42] | lautriv: | |
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| [14:16:37] | htpc_: | lux_2: use a sata hot swap tray |
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| [14:41:07] | lux_2: | lautriv: where did you get it so cheaply? 2,5" or 3,5"? |
| [14:42:18] | lux_2: | htpc_: htpc_ you mean a NAS? |
| [14:43:49] | lux_2: | lautriv: btw, mythbackend for windows exists, only thing is that it doesn't support most tv cards, so it's useless for me |
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| [15:03:27] | wagnerrp: | serenityrox: have you tried using 'mythfrontend' as the frontend? |
| [15:03:36] | wagnerrp: | we don't maintain xbmc, we cannot support it here |
| [15:03:55] | htpc_: | lux_2: goto amazon.com and search for dat optic sata hot swap tray |
| [15:04:05] | wagnerrp: | and this "proprietary algorithm to speed it up" gives me pause |
| [15:04:48] | wagnerrp: | further, you're running the frontend under a VM? |
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| [15:06:59] | wagnerrp: | lux_2: i've got something like this in my desktop... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998041 |
| [15:07:09] | wagnerrp: | is that what you're talking about? |
| [15:07:16] | wagnerrp: | htpc_ rather ^^^ |
| [15:08:20] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: i'm running mythtv on my laptop, i can't fit sth like that in there |
| [15:09:45] | serenityrox: | wagnerrp: I have tried mythtv as the frontend as a test. However my desire is to not use the myth frontend at the moment. |
| [15:10:20] | wagnerrp: | did mythfrontend work fine? |
| [15:12:40] | serenityrox: | wagnerrp: actually it did not |
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| [15:13:04] | wagnerrp: | could you provide logs of the attempted playback? |
| [15:13:13] | wagnerrp: | what kind of latency are you getting through this link? |
| [15:13:27] | lux_2: | lautriv: the guys in #archlinux-de told me i shouldn't worry about ssd lifetime?? |
| [15:13:47] | wagnerrp: | is this actually a local wired LAN that you're running over openvpn for reasons unknown? |
| [15:13:58] | wagnerrp: | are you trying to run this over wireless and using openvpn for security? |
| [15:14:14] | wagnerrp: | what kind of hardware do you have handling encryption on either side of the link? |
| [15:14:40] | wagnerrp: | lux_2: for an OS disk and database, no, i would not worry about ssd lifetime |
| [15:14:56] | wagnerrp: | for a recording disk, i would be more worried about the extremely high cost |
| [15:15:17] | serenityrox: | No wireless, and we are openvpn developers. We have written a proprietary algorithm for it that increases the speed by over 40%. We are able to stream tvheadened, and our own proprietary headend quite well. |
| [15:15:40] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: my recordings are on a samba share hdd :> |
| [15:16:57] | wagnerrp: | mythtv is network transparent. there is no inherent reason why streaming would fail over any network link, regardless of routing or encryption |
| [15:17:10] | wagnerrp: | the only concern i can think of is that it cannot handle high latency links |
| [15:17:26] | wagnerrp: | when it makes a request for data, it does not make a subsequent request until it has received that data |
| [15:17:33] | wagnerrp: | it's not a proper streaming protocol |
| [15:17:35] | serenityrox: | The latency is still less than 20ms |
| [15:18:10] | wagnerrp: | but even still, it should still play. it will just play slowly as it keeps pausing for more data |
| [15:19:19] | serenityrox: | We can stream it from other headends with out any issues at all. It really is crazy to say the least. I have been a long time myth user, and love it. Just trying to integrate that into our project. It seems to have the best of them all. |
| [15:19:37] | wagnerrp: | could you pastebin some logs? |
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| [15:21:30] | serenityrox: | Yes. I will do that tomorrow when I get back to the office. On iperf tests I am getting 980mbps of throughput on the openvpn connection. |
| [15:21:44] | serenityrox: | from a GigE pipe |
| [15:22:19] | wagnerrp: | is that TCP or UDP? |
| [15:22:27] | serenityrox: | mainly udp |
| [15:23:09] | wagnerrp: | mythtv's internal protocol is TCP, but i can't imagine throughput would suffer that much from ACK waits |
| [15:24:34] | serenityrox: | not at all. I have the security setup on the servers so they can't be accessed accept from the mythbox itself. Including VNC. So I can get the logs for you tomorrow if you like. If you will shoot me an pm, I will give you my contact info. |
| [15:25:23] | wagnerrp: | could you get frontend logs now? |
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| [15:25:49] | htpc_: | wagnerrp: yeah, that's similar |
| [15:25:59] | htpc_: | that one doesn't look like it has a fan though |
| [15:26:20] | wagnerrp: | no, no fan |
| [15:26:22] | wagnerrp: | it |
| [15:26:32] | wagnerrp: | it's vented though, so plenty of air coming from other sources |
| [15:26:36] | serenityrox: | let me look. They are going to be the xbmc logs if you want. otherwise I will have to download, and reinstall myth frontend. Which would you rather? |
| [15:27:02] | wagnerrp: | don't worry about it then. i've never read xbmc logs |
| [15:27:48] | htpc_: | wagnerrp: I have several for my raid. I have a dat optic w/ bottom fan. I'm happy with it. I'm ordering another one soon. I want to get one from kingwin that is a combo 3.5/ 2.5 hot swap. |
| [15:28:37] | wagnerrp: | single drive bays are too bulky, and force you to use small, noisy fans |
| [15:28:53] | wagnerrp: | better to use 3-in-2 bays or 5-in-3 bays |
| [15:29:18] | wagnerrp: | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994150 |
| [15:31:31] | htpc_: | wagnerrp: well. The fans are not noisy at all. My pc has several fans and it's suprisingly quiet. I did have to give one case fan a tune up though. |
| [15:32:01] | htpc_: | I was concerned about the heat should the fans fail in a 3–2 bay |
| [15:32:24] | wagnerrp: | easy enough to resolve |
| [15:32:37] | wagnerrp: | monitor the temperatures through SMART, and shut down if they get too high |
| [15:32:46] | htpc_: | I also have 9 5.25 bays... so I have the space |
| [15:33:12] | htpc_: | I'm not local to the box most of the time. I travel for work. |
| [15:33:40] | htpc_: | I get smart alerts to my email, but I may be away for a couple weeks. |
| [15:33:54] | htpc_: | I'm not saying it's the best choice |
| [15:34:14] | serenityrox: | wagnerrp: Thanks so much for your help today. |
| [15:34:15] | htpc_: | it was the one I made, and was good. I may check out a combo drive, if I switch cases |
| [15:35:17] | wagnerrp: | that reminds me, i need to upgrade my array at some point |
| [15:36:37] | htpc_: | wagnerrp: upgrade size? filesystem? cpu? |
| [15:36:42] | wagnerrp: | yes |
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| [15:37:15] | wagnerrp: | honestly, CPU is fine for now |
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| [15:37:36] | wagnerrp: | but i need to replace my RAID card with a dumb controller, and let ZFS do the parity instead |
| [15:39:02] | AndyCap: | wagnerrp: running zfs on freebsd or something else? |
| [15:39:08] | wagnerrp: | bsd |
| [15:39:45] | htpc_: | wagnerrp: I'm running mdam (linux software raid) and will be going to zfsonlinux in Jan. |
| [15:40:25] | AndyCap: | I'll probably stick to mdraid/lvm a little while longer, maybe try freebsd/zfs on something |
| [15:40:26] | wagnerrp: | i've been running ZFS for years, but it's been on top of hardware raid |
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| [15:41:02] | AndyCap: | so no raid-z |
| [15:42:31] | htpc_: | Anyone running mythgame? |
| [15:44:48] | wagnerrp: | waiting for another 3TB under $110 deal to upgrade |
| [15:44:51] | lautriv: | lux_2, i won't hurt you if you stay on ssd, your decision ;) |
| [15:45:05] | wagnerrp: | right now, it's a bunch of old 750GB drives |
| [15:45:16] | lux_2: | lautriv: can i put mysql on a samba share? |
| [15:45:25] | wagnerrp: | erm... no |
| [15:45:36] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: did you mean me? |
| [15:45:40] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [15:45:41] | lautriv: | lux_2, why would you ? |
| [15:45:48] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: why not? |
| [15:45:52] | wagnerrp: | lautriv: spontaneous insanity |
| [15:46:03] | lux_2: | lautriv: because then it doesn't run on my ssd anymore? |
| [15:46:15] | wagnerrp: | lux_2: mysql writes are synchronous |
| [15:46:28] | wagnerrp: | write latency becomes a HUGE factor in performance |
| [15:46:43] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, .,b |
| [15:46:49] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: how huge? would that be a problem for mythtv? |
| [15:47:01] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [15:47:17] | lux_2: | what would be the result? |
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| [15:47:32] | wagnerrp: | slow operation |
| [15:47:39] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, i told him all my issues regarding mythconverg vanished since its on it own spindle y to accomls a imilr goal. |
| [15:47:56] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: how slow? |
| [15:48:09] | wagnerrp: | slow enough that you shouldn't do it |
| [15:48:17] | lux_2: | hum ok |
| [15:48:34] | ** lautriv -> changing kbd battery ** | |
| [15:48:47] | wagnerrp: | to put it simply, nothing but windows likes CIFS |
| [15:48:52] | lux_2: | maybe i should just put it on a usb stick |
| [15:49:00] | wagnerrp: | so if you're using anything but windows, avoid CIFS if at all possible |
| [15:49:07] | wagnerrp: | don't record to CIFS |
| [15:49:15] | wagnerrp: | don't put your storage on CIFS |
| [15:49:16] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: why not? |
| [15:49:22] | lux_2: | why not? :o |
| [15:49:34] | wagnerrp: | because CIFS does not follow the same rules as standard non-windows filesystem structures |
| [15:49:44] | lux_2: | my recordings are on a windows share and i didn't have any problems so far |
| [15:50:15] | lautriv: | can cifs even handle files above 2G ? |
| [15:50:23] | wagnerrp: | by the same right, don't use NTFS on linux if at all possible |
| [15:50:26] | wagnerrp: | it just doesn't mesh well |
| [15:50:48] | wagnerrp: | at least with the video library, there have been some serious issues trying to scan content on CIFS shares |
| [15:50:56] | lux_2: | but maybe i should just get a external hdd for my laptop and put mysql+recordings on it, then my laptop could run alone, that would be an advantage over my current setup |
| [15:51:07] | wagnerrp: | with a scan that might take a couple seconds locally or over NFS taking several minutes over CIFS |
| [15:51:26] | wagnerrp: | is there any reason you're set on using this laptop? |
| [15:51:47] | wagnerrp: | i mean you can pick up a fairly nice desktop for under $200 |
| [15:52:05] | lux_2: | can i put my recordings on a external ntfs hdd? i want to use the disk on windows too |
| [15:52:25] | wagnerrp: | as explained, don't use NTFS on linux if at all possible |
| [15:52:56] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: low power consumption and silent operation. i would have one other machine with linux, but it's in the room i sleep, so i donÄt |
| [15:53:05] | lux_2: | don't want to use that |
| [15:53:32] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: yeah but if i want to use the disk on windows too? |
| [15:53:43] | lautriv: | lux_2, points to a mini-itx |
| [15:53:45] | wagnerrp: | that's just a very bad idea in general |
| [15:53:55] | wagnerrp: | mythtv does not like its recording storage being taken away from it |
| [15:54:35] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: why not? i've unmounted the samba share in the past and it didn't bug mythtv much |
| [15:54:53] | lux_2: | lautriv: don't really have the money :/ |
| [15:54:55] | wagnerrp: | if you take away its storage, where is it going to record to? how is it going to access its recordings? |
| [15:55:18] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: yeah it doesn't record/play, but that's the only issue |
| [15:55:18] | wagnerrp: | mythtv expects dedicated hardware |
| [15:55:27] | wagnerrp: | that's a pretty big issue |
| [15:55:38] | wagnerrp: | it means mythtv doesn't do the one thing it's supposed to do |
| [15:55:54] | lux_2: | if i know about it, i'm ok with it :> |
| [15:56:11] | lux_2: | as long as i don't need to record/watch, it's ok |
| [15:56:30] | lux_2: | but you are right, it could be annoying |
| [15:57:30] | lux_2: | i guess i'll get an external hdd, make a small ext4 partition for mysql, a big one with ntfs for the recordings and plug that to my laptop |
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| [15:58:04] | lux_2: | if i need to remove the disk i'll stop mysql/mythtv and unmount it |
| [15:58:30] | lux_2: | only thing i'm worried about is read/write performance with ntfs-3g |
| [16:00:52] | lautriv: | lux_2, it's not the performance but lack of functionality. |
| [16:00:56] | wagnerrp: | the trouble is that windows and ntfs do not have the same design as linux |
| [16:01:10] | wagnerrp: | the ntfs-3g drivers work, but they can never work well |
| [16:01:28] | wagnerrp: | because they're trying to interface two inherently incompatible designs |
| [16:01:36] | lux_2: | i think only thing missing would be permissions? |
| [16:01:53] | wagnerrp: | the parameters linux expects simply don't exist on ntfs to give it |
| [16:02:00] | wagnerrp: | and visa versa |
| [16:02:08] | lautriv: | lux_2, that alone is a "hughe" only ;) |
| [16:02:38] | lux_2: | lautriv: well i would just have to mount it as user mythtv and group mythtv, then it should work fine |
| [16:02:39] | wagnerrp: | i don't believe mysql will even run if you cannot give it proper (restrictive) permissions to its database files |
| [16:02:46] | lux_2: | missing symlinks suck, though |
| [16:03:06] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: mysql goes on a ext4 partition |
| [16:04:23] | lautriv: | lux_2, fore what reason do you need winblows ? |
| [16:04:48] | lux_2: | i want to take the hdd to friends and put their data on it |
| [16:05:04] | lux_2: | and most people use windows. sadly :( |
| [16:06:14] | wagnerrp: | maybe UDF? |
| [16:07:04] | lautriv: | i guess windowes UDF is at 1.1 and not meant to write |
| [16:07:08] | lux_2: | that may be an option |
| [16:07:22] | lux_2: | lautriv: then it's not an option :( |
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| [16:07:39] | lux_2: | maybe win7 can r/w udf? |
| [16:08:00] | lautriv: | lux_2, check it out, since i don't care any longer about M$ |
| [16:08:30] | lux_2: | what about exfat? is that even supported on linux? |
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| [16:09:25] | wagnerrp: | FAT and derivatives should not be used on any volume of significant size |
| [16:09:47] | wagnerrp: | too limited, too much overhead |
| [16:09:57] | lautriv: | lux_2, wagnerrp pointed out why all winblows is a bad idea. also you would have a sizelimit |
| [16:10:35] | lux_2: | not with ntfs, and probably not with udf |
| [16:10:54] | wagnerrp: | i didn't say windows was bad, merely that trying to interface windows and linux at such a low level is inherently problematic |
| [16:11:28] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, it was meant as "any windows FS will have similar issues" |
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| [16:15:02] | AndyCap: | ntfs-3g is probably the least bad option :P |
| [16:15:45] | lux_2: | AndyCap: yep, looks like udf is not so good :/ |
| [16:16:32] | lux_2: | it's possible to r/w udf with linux and win7, but there are issues if you plug it into winxp |
| [16:17:41] | lux_2: | hum or is it ok, i see mixed results on google |
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| [16:40:26] | lautriv: | there is still some ext2win |
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| [16:58:08] | MMlosh: | Hello. Is there currently a way of recording http streams (those are produced by getstream managing real tuners + providing lightweight streaming service). Adobe LiveHTTP explicitely doesn't support unsplit infinite media :/ |
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| [17:01:15] | MMlosh: | Having the streams always running just pointlessly doubles the CPU time consumption. |
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| [17:17:09] | MMlosh: | I remember there was some barely-documented method last time I tried to check, but I sadly don't remember the name |
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| [17:21:09] | lautriv: | MMlosh, why should myth even care about propietary adobe ? |
| [17:21:43] | MMlosh: | it's not that proprietary, it has IETF drafts, many things support it. Even mythtv does |
| [17:22:07] | MMlosh: | and it was close to simple http streaming, so I hoped the adobe-thing parser will take it |
| [17:22:39] | wagnerrp: | HLS is different from a generic HTTP stream |
| [17:22:55] | wagnerrp: | HLS is the "split infinite media" type |
| [17:23:07] | MMlosh: | I kinda have figured out that using the hard way |
| [17:23:48] | wagnerrp: | mythtv supports HLS recordings, but not generic streams |
| [17:24:51] | MMlosh: | I though there was an option for using an external program for recording (wget would do...) |
| [17:25:03] | wagnerrp: | there is the import recorder |
| [17:25:16] | MMlosh: | oh, is that what I am searching for? |
| [17:27:17] | MMlosh: | wagnerrp, is there any documentation on that? |
| [17:27:24] | wagnerrp: | no idea |
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| [18:22:38] | MMlosh: | wagnerrp, are you sure that the import recorder can handle a file that is being recorded in realtime? By what I have seen so far it might need the file to be already complete.. |
| [18:23:12] | MMlosh: | it has a nice "channel change command" available, the only trouble is, that I have read it might work with a fifo, but doesn't appear so |
| [18:25:43] | wagnerrp: | i dont konw |
| [18:27:20] | MMlosh: | oh, I actually got a DB querry error when I tried to use it |
| [18:27:40] | MMlosh: | QMYSQL3: Unable to execute statement |
| [18:27:53] | MMlosh: | Column 'input' cannot be null |
| [18:28:45] | MMlosh: | and then this one |
| [18:29:13] | MMlosh: | RecBase(2:unknown file): SetOptions(vbiformat,None): Option not recognized |
| [18:29:21] | MMlosh: | I wonder whether it actually works |
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| [18:42:43] | wagnerrp: | it doesn't get much use |
| [18:45:41] | lux_2: | what is import recorder? is that for importing video files to recordings? |
| [18:45:59] | wagnerrp: | no, that's for recording things using tools mythtv cannot access directly |
| [18:46:21] | lux_2: | for example? |
| [18:46:39] | wagnerrp: | no idea |
| [18:46:57] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: where can i find infos on that import recorder? |
| [18:47:59] | MMlosh: | lux_2, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/452954 I haven't found anything else yet |
| [18:48:08] | MMlosh: | and it says it's not really documented there... |
| [18:50:37] | lux_2: | how is the import recorder used? |
| [18:51:02] | MMlosh: | in "input connection" there is a field "channel change command" |
| [18:51:10] | MMlosh: | other than that – I am quite clueless |
| [18:51:32] | lux_2: | can someone tell me if it's ok to put mysql + mythtv recordings on an external usb 2.0 hdd disk? or is that too slow? |
| [18:51:37] | MMlosh: | I tried to compare it to testrecorder, but I haven't found it's sourcecode so far |
| [18:53:54] | wagnerrp: | you can... it's best to put the database and recordings on separate spindles |
| [18:54:19] | MMlosh: | good to know |
| [18:55:50] | wagnerrp: | mysql performs atomic writes, and mythtv runs its own sync loop on each recording |
| [18:56:04] | wagnerrp: | so stuff them both on a single spindle and you run into problems with too much seeking |
| [18:58:23] | MMlosh: | so.. it won't work even for low load? (2–3 simultaneous streams max) |
| [18:58:51] | wagnerrp: | it's advised to simply avoid the possibility |
| [18:59:07] | wagnerrp: | it's not well defined where you will actually start running into problems |
| [18:59:40] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: but usb 2.0 will be fast enough for both? i usually only watch one stream |
| [18:59:45] | MMlosh: | the other possibility is a SD card, which blocks for whole seconds on writes... so I guess I'll risk having them on one spinning disc |
| [19:01:09] | wagnerrp: | usb2.0 is an absolutely awful interface |
| [19:01:19] | wagnerrp: | but even then, throughput isn't an issue |
| [19:01:23] | wagnerrp: | it's seek time |
| [19:01:34] | MMlosh: | mmm.. perhaps the MpegRecorder with file:// could be better than the import recorder? |
| [19:04:53] | MMlosh: | It would be useful if I knew what the difference between "Demo test recorder" and "Import test recorder" was |
| [19:05:45] | wagnerrp: | as i understand it, the test recorder is just supposed to be pointed at an mpeg file to satisfy the recorder requirement for the backend to run |
| [19:06:01] | wagnerrp: | while the import recorder is actually designed to be tied into some scripted interface and be used in production |
| [19:06:25] | MMlosh: | the UI is the same and I was unable to find the sources for the demo test recorder |
| [19:07:22] | wagnerrp: | ive never used either |
| [19:09:30] | MMlosh: | by the source code I found it seems that the import recorder attempts a regular file copy on the "source" file |
| [19:09:48] | MMlosh: | if that's really the case, there is no way that could work for live action |
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| [19:11:59] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: so seektime might be worse than now? now i have my recordings on a samba share, so they might even get better? |
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| [19:20:02] | wagnerrp: | by "seek time", i mean the time it takes for the hard drive to mechanically shift from one track to another |
| [19:20:09] | wagnerrp: | we're talking 10–20ms per hit |
| [19:20:17] | wagnerrp: | but each write is going to require 2–3 seeks |
| [19:21:13] | MMlosh: | oh.. one of the methods I tried today tried to symlink the input thing to /var/lib/mythtv/livetv. No clue which one, though |
| [19:21:35] | wagnerrp: | huh? |
| [19:22:35] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: do you think it might be a problem? or will it just take a little longer to start recording? |
| [19:22:55] | wagnerrp: | it's nothing to do with starting recording, it's to do with sustaining recording |
| [19:23:20] | wagnerrp: | too much seeking drastically reduces your throughput |
| [19:23:37] | wagnerrp: | and once mythtv's write buffer hits 128MB due to insufficient throughput, it gives up |
| [19:24:08] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: and that happens with a usb 2.0 hdd? |
| [19:24:55] | wagnerrp: | being USB is irrelevant. the issue is having your database (which produces lots of seeks when writing) and mythtv (which produces lots of seeks when writing) on the same disk |
| [19:25:35] | lautriv: | lux_2, usb2 does not grant for bare speed because a.) all hoes to the same hub b.) sub-optimal protocol c.) adapter/hardware is unlikely close to the specs. |
| [19:25:45] | lautriv: | s/hoes/goes |
| [19:25:52] | wagnerrp: | usb1.1 and usb2.0 are just poor interconnects in general for high throughput |
| [19:26:18] | lux_2: | so you think it won't work? or should i give it a try? |
| [19:26:37] | lautriv: | lux_2, test it directly with some dd |
| [19:27:01] | wagnerrp: | lautriv: again, i'm not even talking about usb at this point |
| [19:27:15] | wagnerrp: | i'm talking about overloading the mechanical disk with too many seeks |
| [19:27:23] | wagnerrp: | which will happen regardless of the interconnect |
| [19:27:41] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, i'm aware of that, just pointing out it must not be fast because 2.0 |
| [19:28:16] | wagnerrp: | it won't be as instantaneously fast |
| [19:28:36] | wagnerrp: | but we're talking about issues that might occur when the seek load causes throughput to the platter to drop to the range of 10MB/s |
| [19:28:42] | wagnerrp: | that's easily sustainable by USB2.0 |
| [19:29:37] | lautriv: | old issue, still present : how do i remove "Look up Metadata" entries from job-queue, when a.) it was never selected b.) recording in question is deleted since long time. |
| [19:29:58] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: so, no go with an external hdd? |
| [19:30:16] | wagnerrp: | if you're using a laptop, you have no choice but an external HD |
| [19:30:31] | wagnerrp: | but that has absolutely nothing to do with the seeking issue i'm describing |
| [19:30:42] | lautriv: | lux_2, it depends on other things |
| [19:30:57] | lux_2: | lautriv: on what things? |
| [19:31:40] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: what do you mean then? can i use an external usb 2.0 hdd for mysql+recordings? |
| [19:32:02] | wagnerrp: | i'm saying i would not recommend using a single internal hard drive for mysql+recordings |
| [19:32:10] | wagnerrp: | USB does not factor into anything at this point |
| [19:32:12] | lautriv: | lux_2, like wagnerrp tries to explain, the time/speed how fast your hdd can move it's head on the right position which will become even harder if you have a live-view where the recording writes 2 seconds before the stream reads. |
| [19:33:50] | lux_2: | i never watch livetv, will i run into problems if i only record+ watch recordings? |
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| [19:34:12] | wagnerrp: | it's all recordings |
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| [19:34:31] | MMlosh: | Now the MpegRecorder creates 4 items in LiveTV, all being one recording, but only one has non-zero size. When I delete one, all of them vanish.. wtf |
| [19:34:44] | lautriv: | lux_2, if you have 2 recordings at the same time, it's even worse |
| [19:35:00] | MMlosh: | wrong.. 4 files were created |
| [19:35:18] | MMlosh: | wrong again.. 3 files + one .png preview |
| [19:35:43] | lux_2: | lautriv: yeah i sometimes have 2 recordings. so that won't work? or will it? |
| [19:36:05] | wagnerrp: | it depends on too many factors to give a yes or no answer |
| [19:36:19] | lautriv: | lux_2, again, depends on the speed of your hdd's heads, there is no plain rule. |
| [19:36:50] | lautriv: | lux_2, the more your h/w could do, the saver you are. |
| [19:36:54] | lux_2: | lautriv: but the usb 2.0 connection is not the issue? only depends on the hdd? |
| [19:36:56] | MMlosh: | so.. the fifo source seems to be working flawlessly. The only problem is getting a Recorder module that would be patient with it |
| [19:37:12] | lautriv: | lux_2, the USB2.0 is for sure faster than your hdd. |
| [19:37:15] | lux_2: | lautriv: i would get a 5400rpm 2.5" usb 2.0 drive |
| [19:37:30] | MMlosh: | "External channel changer is set, but this device does not support it" ?? |
| [19:37:33] | lux_2: | lautriv: so usb 2.0 won't bottleneck? |
| [19:38:06] | lautriv: | lux_2, USB2.0 itself doesn't even be in question |
| [19:38:31] | lux_2: | lautriv: i thought usb 2.0 was the issue |
| [19:38:46] | MMlosh: | I see no reason for ignoring "external channel changer". I was allowed to configure it and I deliberately configured it. |
| [19:39:16] | MMlosh: | I don't see any harm in running the external channel changer. There are many ways how a channel change callback could be abused :) |
| [19:39:46] | lux_2: | lautriv: so it will work to put mysql+recordings on the external usb 2.0 hdd if the hdd itself is fast enough? |
| [19:40:05] | lautriv: | lux_2, see, if you send some "move head there" it must be translated from usb to sata/sas/scsi/whatever that does a tiny chip with less resources, end if sent, the hdd got the idea to do so but it will take some time, that's seek-time. the smaller seektime, the faster move. |
| [19:41:09] | lautriv: | lux_2, since it will receive a crapload of seeks, it should be as fast as possible. |
| [19:41:10] | lux_2: | lautriv: so will it not work or will it just slow down mythtv a little? |
| [19:41:49] | lux_2: | will it work or not? |
| [19:42:05] | lautriv: | lux_2, there is no way to slowdown because you must record in realtime --> hdd too slow -> end of recording due to stream cut. |
| [19:43:08] | lux_2: | so how do i know if an external hdd is too slow? should i plug my 3,5" external hdd into the laptop and then test? |
| [19:43:48] | lautriv: | lux_2, test on anything you have around |
| [19:43:55] | wagnerrp: | you're missing the whole point entirely |
| [19:44:08] | wagnerrp: | we're telling you not to cheap out on a mythtv installation |
| [19:44:12] | wagnerrp: | and you keep insisting on doing so |
| [19:44:43] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, idea for my job-queue ? |
| [19:44:54] | wagnerrp: | huh? |
| [19:44:58] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: i don't have the money for a new pc |
| [19:45:15] | lux_2: | lautriv: i'll give it a try |
| [19:45:25] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, 15 minutes above |
| [19:45:44] | lautriv: | lux_2, at least the 3.5 is probably 7200 RPM |
| [19:46:00] | lux_2: | lautriv: nope, iirc it's 5400 too |
| [19:46:28] | wagnerrp: | you can go into the information center and remove them individually |
| [19:46:33] | lux_2: | and the hdd i record to currently is also 5400rpm and it lies on a samba share |
| [19:46:52] | wagnerrp: | this laptop has an internal hard drive, correct? |
| [19:47:29] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: it has a ssd |
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| [19:47:50] | wagnerrp: | so problem solved. put the database there |
| [19:48:11] | lautriv: | lux_2, just to give you a picture ..........i have 3 Backends recording up to 32 simultaneous channels, they store on a distributed (spread and duplicated) filesystem over a dedicated network using drives with 15000 RPM, and that is not done by fun ;) |
| [19:48:22] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: someone here told me i shouldn't put the db there because it wears out the ssd??? |
| [19:48:32] | wagnerrp: | how big is the SSD? |
| [19:48:39] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: 128gb |
| [19:48:58] | wagnerrp: | something recent enough to have a decent wear leveling routine running in the firmware? |
| [19:49:17] | lux_2: | lautriv: nice setup :) but as i said, i don't have the money to buy a new system for myth :/ |
| [19:49:36] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: it's a samsung 470, should be ok |
| [19:49:52] | ** MMlosh doubts that a SSD will last long as a temporary TV recording storage ** | |
| [19:49:56] | lautriv: | lux_2, didn't tell to brag but show you how much data get's collected. |
| [19:50:11] | lux_2: | i'm not sure though, i guess it's 1–2 years old |
| [19:50:28] | wagnerrp: | mmlosh: im not recommending it for recording, just the database |
| [19:50:36] | lux_2: | lautriv: i only have 2 recordings max and 1 viewing stream |
| [19:50:37] | wagnerrp: | but even for recordings, it shouldn't be that bad |
| [19:50:51] | wagnerrp: | lux_2: viewing doesn't matter, just recording |
| [19:50:59] | wagnerrp: | flash has a limited write life |
| [19:51:12] | wagnerrp: | the MLC flash in a 470 is going to be good for ~5000 writes |
| [19:51:22] | MMlosh: | import recorder doesn't support an external channel changer !?? |
| [19:51:30] | wagnerrp: | after which the controller will artificially stop writing to that cell to prevent data loss |
| [19:51:56] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: how long will it last with mysql on it? |
| [19:52:21] | wagnerrp: | that means your drive is good for somewhere in the neighborhood of 500TB worth of IO |
| [19:52:42] | wagnerrp: | less if you keep it mostly full, as that will limit the effectiveness of the wear leveling routine |
| [19:52:52] | lautriv: | lux_2, since wagnerrp has no cristal-ball to predict your write-cycles ... |
| [19:52:54] | MMlosh: | that much? that's nice. I got one of the 28nm ones, which lasts substantially less |
| [19:54:06] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: 14+9+10gb are free, is that enough? |
| [19:54:13] | wagnerrp: | i don't think i've ever put 500TB of writes total on my system, over the entire course of running mythtv |
| [19:54:37] | wagnerrp: | 20% free is getting a bit low |
| [19:54:40] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: how long is that in years? |
| [19:54:42] | wagnerrp: | i would try to keep it higher |
| [19:54:47] | wagnerrp: | since 2006 |
| [19:54:48] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, i won't bet on it since a single recording can have around 5G |
| [19:55:46] | lautriv: | ok, 100k recordings in 7 years is not likely to happen... |
| [19:56:56] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: if i free up another 15gb will that be enough? |
| [19:57:02] | wagnerrp: | when SSDs go bad after consumer use, it's more often due to a software fault in the firmware than the flash memory itself dying |
| [19:57:38] | lautriv: | intended to sell a new one .... |
| [19:59:11] | wagnerrp: | i'm cynical, but not that cynical |
| [19:59:19] | htpc_: | what script / program does mythgame "scan for games" call? |
| [19:59:31] | wagnerrp: | it calls an internal routine in the code |
| [19:59:35] | wagnerrp: | there is no external call |
| [19:59:52] | htpc_: | do you know why it doesn't do anything? |
| [20:00:02] | wagnerrp: | no clue, i don't use it |
| [20:00:31] | lux_2: | so i can/should put the mysql db on my internal ssd and the recordings on an external usb2.0 2.5" 5400rpm hdd? |
| [20:00:41] | lux_2: | @wagnerrp: |
| [20:00:48] | wagnerrp: | 2.5"? i would suggest not |
| [20:00:56] | wagnerrp: | merely due to cost/storage reasons |
| [20:01:15] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: why not? it's as fast as a 3.5" |
| [20:01:22] | wagnerrp: | not by a long shot |
| [20:01:33] | lux_2: | both have 5400rpm |
| [20:01:37] | wagnerrp: | well... ok... over USB2.0, a 2.5" drive is just as fast as a 3.5" drive |
| [20:01:55] | lux_2: | and 30mb/s usb2 and 104mb/s @usb3 |
| [20:02:05] | lux_2: | yeah |
| [20:02:28] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: so can i set it up as i described or not? |
| [20:02:55] | htpc_: | can hd be streamed well with over wireless N? |
| [20:03:06] | wagnerrp: | throughput on a rotating disk is a function of linear speed, not angular speed |
| [20:03:08] | lautriv: | htpc_, works here |
| [20:03:14] | htpc_: | nice! |
| [20:03:16] | wagnerrp: | meaning both the angular speed AND the radius matter |
| [20:03:18] | htpc_: | g? |
| [20:03:37] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: so will it work? or not? |
| [20:03:38] | wagnerrp: | a 3.5" platter is much wider, meaning much higher sequential throughput |
| [20:04:01] | wagnerrp: | that's why a 3.5" 7200rpm drive is typically just as fast as a short-stroked 2.5" 15krpm drive |
| [20:04:13] | lux_2: | the benchmarks show differently |
| [20:04:27] | wagnerrp: | because you're talking about USB2.0 drives |
| [20:04:32] | lux_2: | plus i'm using usb2 so it wont matter |
| [20:04:38] | wagnerrp: | where the only speed of consequence is the USB2.0 bus, not the hard drive |
| [20:04:41] | wagnerrp: | but that's besides the point |
| [20:04:43] | lux_2: | it's a usb 3.0 drive, sry |
| [20:04:55] | wagnerrp: | 2.5" hard drives are much more expensive than 3.5" hard drives |
| [20:04:56] | lux_2: | but it's used on a usb 2.0 port |
| [20:05:01] | wagnerrp: | video takes up a lot of storage |
| [20:05:05] | lux_2: | not really |
| [20:05:13] | wagnerrp: | so the best cost per capacity is better |
| [20:05:16] | wagnerrp: | sure it does |
| [20:05:28] | wagnerrp: | on the order of 5–7GB/hr |
| [20:05:29] | lux_2: | i meant the cost |
| [20:05:45] | lux_2: | you mean hd content? |
| [20:05:57] | lux_2: | a 2h movie takes 4–5gb here |
| [20:06:11] | wagnerrp: | HD is all we have over here for broadcast |
| [20:06:25] | lux_2: | i only have standard content |
| [20:07:02] | lux_2: | but you didn't answer my question: can i put my recordings on a external 5400rpm drive? |
| [20:07:14] | wagnerrp: | sure |
| [20:07:14] | lux_2: | or will i run into issues? |
| [20:07:40] | wagnerrp: | if you arent running the database off the same disk, you should be good for several simultaneous recordings |
| [20:07:48] | lux_2: | so it's no problem that it's connected via usb2.0 only? |
| [20:08:14] | wagnerrp: | no, because as mentioned, the seek performance is the bottleneck, not linear throughput |
| [20:08:35] | lux_2: | so seek time is not affected by usb2.0? |
| [20:08:43] | wagnerrp: | some, but not much |
| [20:08:45] | lautriv: | lux_2, you are located in germany, right ? |
| [20:08:51] | lux_2: | lautriv: yep |
| [20:08:53] | htpc_: | how would i troubleshoot the menu items unresponsiveness? can I issue the command from the CLI? |
| [20:09:17] | lautriv: | lux_2, we do DVB but wagnerrp is on the other side of the sea, they do atsc |
| [20:09:48] | wagnerrp: | plus we did digital more as a means to HD, than just for digital's sake |
| [20:09:49] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: does the database really do so much writing to disk? i thought it only has to manage some epg and the recordings? is that so much data? |
| [20:10:03] | lux_2: | lautriv: what's atsc? |
| [20:10:11] | wagnerrp: | our version of DVB-T |
| [20:10:27] | wagnerrp: | the database is recording the seek table |
| [20:10:36] | lautriv: | lux_2, different standard like NTSC to PAL was. |
| [20:10:52] | wagnerrp: | which for MPEG2, is going to be 2–3 I frames per second |
| [20:11:02] | wagnerrp: | but as mentioned, mysql performs atomic writes |
| [20:11:11] | wagnerrp: | so every insertion it does goes directly to the platter |
| [20:11:13] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: but it's only recording the sekk table while a recording is running? does it write back to disk so often? |
| [20:11:27] | wagnerrp: | and any filesystem metadata associated with that write also goes directly to platter |
| [20:11:46] | lux_2: | wow, ok. why is that? |
| [20:11:49] | wagnerrp: | so each one of those 2–3 frames added per second per recording results in several seeks on the platter |
| [20:12:10] | wagnerrp: | it's atomic to maintain data consistency in the cause of a system failure |
| [20:12:13] | lux_2: | would it be possible to make mysql perform writes less often? |
| [20:12:35] | lautriv: | lux_2, that would lead to possible corruption |
| [20:13:13] | lux_2: | but only if the system crashes |
| [20:13:18] | wagnerrp: | sure. you could add a buffer and a loop into mythtv that would collect those seek table insertions, and dump them all at once every 5–10 seconds or so |
| [20:13:27] | lux_2: | and even then it wouldn't lose so much data i think? |
| [20:13:34] | lautriv: | lux_2, kinda you have the money if the check is signed and no second before |
| [20:14:01] | wagnerrp: | although personally, i think my billing as a programmer is somewhere around $130/hr |
| [20:14:08] | wagnerrp: | it would be cheaper to just buy more hardware |
| [20:14:17] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: is that feature planned? |
| [20:14:23] | wagnerrp: | nope |
| [20:14:31] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, you won't even start on a laptop ;) |
| [20:14:43] | lux_2: | or is it possible to setup mysql differently to not write so often? |
| [20:14:45] | wagnerrp: | and doing such would cause problems with frontends attempting playback |
| [20:15:09] | wagnerrp: | you could stick it on a memory disk |
| [20:15:14] | wagnerrp: | just don't tell any DBA you did that |
| [20:15:19] | wagnerrp: | as they will slap you unconscious |
| [20:15:31] | lux_2: | what's DBA? |
| [20:15:39] | wagnerrp: | database administrator |
| [20:15:47] | lautriv: | lux_2, point is, if your hdd can't follow on the fly any buffer would somewhen overflow. |
| [20:15:48] | lux_2: | yeah i thought about that too. i might do that |
| [20:15:52] | wagnerrp: | it's the title for people who do those sorts of things professionally |
| [20:16:44] | lux_2: | maybe i'll put mysql in a ramdisk and add a cronjob to perform daily backups |
| [20:16:55] | wagnerrp: | yeah... don't do that |
| [20:17:12] | wagnerrp: | it was intended as a joke, not a serious suggestion |
| [20:17:22] | lautriv: | lux_2, are you a wall ? i feel to talk to one. |
| [20:17:56] | lux_2: | lautriv: why? |
| [20:18:31] | lautriv: | lux_2, your arguments and questions tend to be couterproductive |
| [20:18:47] | lux_2: | lautriv: don't see why, but sry |
| [20:19:27] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: i noticed my mysql dir is 5gb large, why is that? doesn mythconverg use so much space? |
| [20:19:38] | lux_2: | is there some way to make it smaller? |
| [20:19:47] | wagnerrp: | it doesn't |
| [20:19:55] | wagnerrp: | chances are that's mysql's binary logs |
| [20:20:30] | lux_2: | mysql-bin.000014 files |
| [20:20:47] | wagnerrp: | it logs every transaction, allowing you to roll forward changes after recovering from a dump file |
| [20:21:08] | lux_2: | can i disable these logs? |
| [20:21:33] | wagnerrp: | i'm not sure of the best procedure for dealing with those |
| [20:21:34] | lux_2: | i'm really worried about the amount mysql writes to the ssd, don't want it to fail early :/ |
| [20:23:00] | lux_2: | or can i reduce the amount of logs? |
| [20:25:48] | lux_2: | i'll reduce the amount of days to keep the logs and the size |
| [20:28:03] | lux_2: | hum i can't find the mentioned options in my my.cnf? |
| [20:28:23] | lux_2: | can't find the option max_binlog_size or one of the others |
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| [20:51:58] | Korny: | hello all |
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| [21:20:35] | lux_2: | wagnerrp: can i put mysql on a usb stick or will that be problematic? |
| [21:20:51] | wagnerrp: | far more so than putting it on the SSD |
| [21:21:10] | wagnerrp: | SSDs are designed for high random writes, USB sticks are not |
| [21:21:36] | wagnerrp: | USB sticks are intended for largely read-only operation, and thus do not have any form of wear leveling |
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| [21:32:34] | lux_2: | can someone who used mythtv for some time tell me how big the mysql datadir became? i want to put mysql in a ramdisk but i don't know how large it has to be |
| [21:32:48] | wagnerrp: | no |
| [21:33:35] | lux_2: | pretty please? :> |
| [21:33:36] | wagnerrp: | i cannot facilitate someone doing something so foolish as to run mysql in a ramdisk |
| [21:33:52] | lux_2: | i'll do daily backups |
| [21:34:32] | Scopeuk is now known as Scopeuk-AFK | |
| [21:37:25] | MMlosh: | update on me: the "MPEG-2 Encoder card" with a file:/path device seems to work fine for scheduled recordings. Only liveTV goes up in smoke for some reason |
| [21:38:05] | MMlosh: | *actually seems to work fine (with the file it's pointed to being a fifo with mpegts flowing through) |
| [21:45:08] | ** Korny agrees with wagnerrp no point to a ram disk, its not like mythtv is DB heavy ** | |
| [21:45:25] | Korny: | In the grand scheme of things at least |
| [21:45:56] | wagnerrp: | Korny: it's because i told him he should have at least two hard drives, to prevent seek time during heavy database writes interfering with recordings |
| [21:46:12] | Korny: | oh I missed that |
| [21:46:40] | Korny: | Get a small ssd and be done with it |
| [21:46:50] | wagnerrp: | he has a 128GB one as his system disk |
| [21:47:19] | Korny: | so buy a platter drive or two and be done with it |
| [21:47:31] | Korny: | I'm guessing you told him that as well lol |
| [21:50:23] | MMlosh: | final update: LiveTV didn't go up in smoke because of misconfiguration... I guess it did so because I was running over ssh -X |
| [21:50:54] | wagnerrp: | yeah, accelerated video playback doesn't work too well over an ssh tunnel |
| [21:51:08] | wagnerrp: | it works a bit better if you have AIGLX configured properly, and are using opengl video rendering |
| [21:51:30] | MMlosh: | this is all happening on ARM devices :P |
| [21:51:50] | ** wagnerrp shakes his head... ** | |
| [21:52:16] | MMlosh: | the server is a SabreLite board.. 4 cores, sata, GLan, 1Gig of RAM.. that should be more than enough |
| [21:52:38] | wagnerrp: | what content? |
| [21:53:01] | MMlosh: | content? where? |
| [21:53:07] | wagnerrp: | are you trying to play |
| [21:53:21] | wagnerrp: | SD? HD? MPEG2? MPEG4? H264? |
| [21:53:24] | MMlosh: | SD |
| [21:53:40] | wagnerrp: | codec? |
| [21:53:42] | Korny: | Why are people trying to play on ARM devices so much? Are they cheaper or is it the energy efficency or what? |
| [21:53:55] | MMlosh: | I am getting a "starting" screen and then a black screen until I hit escape |
| [21:54:10] | wagnerrp: | ah, so it's not even attempting anything |
| [21:54:20] | MMlosh: | Korny, yes, this QuadCore thing doesn't even need a heatsink |
| [21:54:33] | wagnerrp: | i was expecting that was too lightweight to manage even SD MPEG2 playback |
| [21:54:44] | wagnerrp: | since MPEG2 playback is single threaded, meaning those additional cores do nothing |
| [21:54:57] | MMlosh: | mplayer seems to work fine over ssh -X |
| [21:55:14] | MMlosh: | well.. fine.. roughly at 80% speed? |
| [21:55:34] | wagnerrp: | mplayer is probably willing to fall back further than we are, down to raw X11 pixel updates |
| [21:55:51] | MMlosh: | it could,but it doesn't have to |
| [21:55:59] | MMlosh: | it falls back to non-SHM Wv |
| [21:56:00] | MMlosh: | *Xv |
| [21:56:06] | wagnerrp: | Xv isnt available without direct access is it? |
| [21:56:19] | wagnerrp: | i thought it required SHM |
| [21:56:35] | MMlosh: | there is a SHM-free way of doing Xv too |
| [21:56:39] | Korny: | On a similar topic is a low end ivy bridge enough for a mythfrontend playing h264 content? |
| [21:56:49] | MMlosh: | usually it's done with SHM, true |
| [21:56:50] | wagnerrp: | depends on how low end |
| [21:56:50] | Korny: | err low end ivy bridge Pentium |
| [21:57:01] | wagnerrp: | are you talking about one of those under 1.5GHz mobile chips? |
| [21:57:07] | Korny: | nah |
| [21:57:17] | Korny: | just a 60 dollar 2 core pentium |
| [21:57:24] | wagnerrp: | ... i need to figure out why my keyboard map doesn't allow the (less than) symbol |
| [21:57:47] | Korny: | I need to replace my atom boxes, they are just bleh when the GUI in mythtv for whatever reason |
| [21:57:47] | wagnerrp: | should be plenty, even with onboard graphics |
| [21:58:05] | wagnerrp: | atom or ion? |
| [21:58:09] | Korny: | ion |
| [21:58:23] | wagnerrp: | too many recordings to parse in the Watch Recordings screen? |
| [21:58:34] | Korny: | I thought that, but even the main menus are slow |
| [21:59:14] | Korny: | And I don't shut them off because it takes a while for them to become reponsive when I reboot them, so I figure a faster box will reboot in under a minute |
| [21:59:23] | MMlosh: | and that's why you should get one of these ARMs instead of atoms :) |
| [21:59:36] | wagnerrp: | for even less performance? |
| [21:59:38] | Korny: | My Atom works though.. :) |
| [21:59:59] | Korny: | I'm just going to put them in my spare bedroom |
| [22:00:17] | wagnerrp: | don't shut them off. just use standby |
| [22:00:23] | MMlosh: | If you said "for 4x the price" I would take it... |
| [22:01:04] | Korny: | I wish mini itx boards weren't as expensive |
| [22:01:19] | wagnerrp: | yeah. i think mine was like $85 |
| [22:01:31] | Korny: | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035FIS2O/r . . . TVPDKIKX0DER |
| [22:01:32] | wagnerrp: | plus i had to wait a week for them to ship me out of new BIOS chip |
| [22:01:35] | Korny: | I like that case |
| [22:01:49] | wagnerrp: | it was an older H67 board, and the firmware it came with did not support ivy bridge chips |
| [22:02:07] | wagnerrp: | of course not having an older sandy bridge chip, i couldn't reflash it to work myself |
| [22:02:39] | wagnerrp: | i have that case. way overkill on the PSU |
| [22:02:53] | wagnerrp: | i peak out at around 20% load |
| [22:03:47] | wagnerrp: | better to use this one... http://www.amazon.com/Antec-300-65-Mini-ITX-D . . . s=ISK+300-65 |
| [22:04:42] | Korny: | no new ones available |
| [22:04:48] | Korny: | well there is, its 129 dollars |
| [22:05:07] | wagnerrp: | or toss in one of these... http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-80-60W-power-kit |
| [22:05:27] | Korny: | yeah |
| [22:05:29] | wagnerrp: | you know, i might actually do that myself |
| [22:06:05] | wagnerrp: | it's diskless, so i don't have to worry about anything other than the board |
| [22:06:21] | wagnerrp: | and the cable that routes power from the plug in the rear to the power supply is very clumsy |
| [22:06:28] | wagnerrp: | not to mention the power supply itself is clumsy |
| [22:06:52] | wagnerrp: | it would run a fair bit cooler, since i could strap the brick to the back of the tv stand, and get rid of about half the heat output |
| [22:06:56] | Korny: | hmmmm I'd love to do a diskless configuration |
| [22:07:59] | Korny: | but I don't want to have to setup a DHCP server along with other things(unless there is an easier way) |
| [22:08:42] | wagnerrp: | you could flash gpxe directly onto the boot room |
| [22:08:51] | wagnerrp: | and store the location of the disk server internally |
| [22:09:03] | wagnerrp: | bypass DHCP/PXE |
| [22:09:22] | wagnerrp: | but... it's honestly easier to just set up the DHCP server |
| [22:10:03] | Korny: | When I get around to that wagnerrp I may pick your brain |
| [22:12:28] | wagnerrp: | yikes... $12 for shipping |
| [22:12:41] | Korny: | I suppose I could put dhcp on my mythtv backend and then just disable it on my router |
| [22:14:04] | wagnerrp: | your router doesn't support PXE configuration? |
| [22:14:34] | Korny: | It may |
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| [22:15:03] | Korny: | its running DD-WRT |
| [22:16:09] | Korny: | http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/PXE |
| [22:17:47] | Korny: | Even more interesting The boot image must be under 32k according to the PXE boot spec, so this image can be copied directly to the DD-WRT device and hosted there, further negating issues that could arise if the DD-WRT device should remain active, but the link to the TFTP server be down. |
| [22:20:06] | Korny: | So basically I'd just have to setup the tftp server on my backend and I know I've read howto's on how to setup mythtv to do that |
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| [22:23:43] | MMlosh: | btw: where does mythweb store it's mysql access password? For some reason the passwords desynced for me. I managed to fix it for the backend and frontend somehow, but mythweb still refuses to run |
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| [22:25:59] | MMlosh: | lux_2, it turned out that "MPEG-2 encoder" recorder is way better for "external program" .. It has an (undocumented) feature, that device which starts with "file:" is treated like a MPEG-2 stream |
| [22:26:20] | MMlosh: | it was even fine with the device being a fifo |
| [22:26:56] | lux_2: | MMlosh: you mean it can "record" a file? |
| [22:27:10] | MMlosh: | it can record mpeg-ts stream comming out from a fifo |
| [22:27:36] | MMlosh: | it should work with a file too (but working with a regular file is the point of the TestRecorder) |
| [22:28:17] | MMlosh: | The fifo can be fed with simple "while true; do wget http://my.source:port/$channel -0 – >fifo; done" |
| [22:28:42] | MMlosh: | The only thing I need to figure out is channel switching |
| [22:29:08] | MMlosh: | (If it didn't say "External Channel changer is set, but this device does not support it", I would be basically ready) |
| [22:29:42] | MMlosh: | *If it didn't say that and just run it that is :) |
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| [22:54:52] | htpc_: | "retrieve details" doesn't work for game metadata. I ran giantbomb.py from the mythtv user and it works great. How can I troubleshoot this? |
| [22:57:28] | [R]: | what does the logs say |
| [22:59:01] | htpc_: | [R] which one? |
| [22:59:13] | [R]: | anythign thats gets updated |
| [22:59:49] | wagnerrp: | Korny: tftpd is typically run through inetd |
| [23:00:08] | wagnerrp: | just configure inetd to run tftpd with the proper root path, and it takes care of the rest from there |
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| [23:08:41] | Korny: | Anyone get mythweather to actually find a location for the alerts from the National weather service? |
| [23:09:33] | wagnerrp: | i think you usually need to use airports or something |
| [23:11:01] | Korny: | Here its by country I just figured out |
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| [23:14:03] | Korny: | So with mythweather will it alert if a warning goes off in a selected area, I'm setting this up in case we are watching a recording in the basement |
| [23:15:15] | wagnerrp: | "item would violate a task level transaction" |
| [23:15:21] | wagnerrp: | i don't even know what that means |
| [23:15:23] | wagnerrp: | stupid oracle |
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| [23:20:48] | MMlosh: | wagnerrp, what bad can happen when you would run an "External channel changer script" for a recorder that doesn't support it? |
| [23:21:21] | wagnerrp: | if the recorder type doesn't support it, it won't give you the option of configuring one, and wouldn't run it if you somehow figured out a way to do so |
| [23:21:38] | MMlosh: | The line 962 of https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/1216db6 . . . nnelbase.cpp is the only thing that prevents me from using MPEG-2 encoder card Recorder as a "Generic piped mpeg2 input" |
| [23:22:04] | MMlosh: | well.. in arm build of ubuntu 13.04's mythtv is that field always visible in the GUI |
| [23:22:36] | wagnerrp: | i don't do anything with the recorder code. i'm not the one to ask |
| [23:23:39] | MMlosh: | oh.. ok. can you please point me to the right direction? Is it the mailing list? Which? Or a bug tracker? |
| [23:24:05] | wagnerrp: | you might want to ask danielk in #mythtv |
| [23:24:19] | MMlosh: | ok, thanks for help and patience |
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| [23:58:48] | wagnerrp: | anyone around that uses an http proxy? |
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