Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, December 28th, 2012, 00:01 UTC

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dmfrey:

dekarl, i was able to get around it by using makemkv to do a backup, which explodes it, instead of making a mkv. They seem to be playing fine in myth FE

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Vaska:

Hi – I know the commercial skip uses blank frames for detection but does it also use commercial volume? Maybe it's just a cooincidence or my imagination, but it seems like commercial skip hasn't been working since the commercial volume normalization law took effect.

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ertyu-m:

I'm trying to track down various crashes in myth subsystems but can't seem to find anything concrete in the logs, what can I try or where can I look?

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robert5:

Anyone have some advice getting RCMM remotes working with lirc 0.90 in mythbuntu 12.04

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robert5:

Or if anyone knows about the RCMM protocol, I found a post online that said to decrease the gap in the remote config file but that does not seem to be working for me

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[04:25:18]

robert5:

Hey guys, solved my lirc RCMM issue, only took 4 days, I will make sure to submit a bug report

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robert5:

One other question though, using an hd-pvr. Set everything up like I normally do. I can use the cat command and capture from the box. Mythtv does not seem to be able to capture from the device though

[04:27:49]

robert5:

I am using 12.04.1 with 0.26

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robert5:

Are there any known issues setting up an hd-pvr on a freshly installed mythbuntu system

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robert5:

I am having channel chnage script problems, in my mythbackend log I having my channel change script exiting with status=256, result=1. Does anyone know what that means (I have been googling without any luck)

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h7251:

hi, is a raspberry pi powerful enough to run a myth backend?

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sulx:

no

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[15:02:50]

wagnerrp:

why are people so enamored with the raspberry pi?

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[15:59:17]

bergqvistjl:

Hi guys, I have a problem with running mythfilldatabase via cron.

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[16:00:19]

bergqvistjl:

I've set cronie (i'm using arch) to run mythfilldatabase every day at 1PM, and the logs prove that mythfilldatabse runs sucessfully, yet the backend doesn't even register that it's run at all, and no data is imported. yet when I run mythfilldatabase by hand under the same user, it imports fine :/

[16:00:30]

bergqvistjl:

anyone got any solutions?

[16:01:05]

wagnerrp:

sounds like you're running it as the wrong user

[16:01:18]

wagnerrp:

any reason to not just let mythbackend run it automatically?

[16:01:53]

bergqvistjl:

no, when i run it as the same user from the command line by hand it works.

[16:02:11]

wagnerrp:

as the same user you had it run as in cron?

[16:02:21]

bergqvistjl:

and i'd set it to run automatically through the setup page in the first place, but it never executed, that's when I set it to run via cron, but im getting the same problem.

[16:02:22]

bergqvistjl:

yes.

[16:02:29]

bergqvistjl:

the user is called mythtv, could that be the issue?

[16:05:50]

bergqvistjl:

OK, here is the output of when mythfilldatabase is run using cronie: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=97SG1kqT

[16:06:00]

bergqvistjl:

it appears that tv_grab_uk_rt is not connecting

[16:06:18]

bergqvistjl:

even so, the backend status page doesn't even assume that mythfilldatabase is run at all :/

[16:06:28]

bergqvistjl:

just shows the last time I ran it manually (which always works)

[16:08:06]

bergqvistjl:

what's also odd, is that when it's run via cronie, it doesn't pick up my locale correctly

[16:09:57]

bergqvistjl:

problem solved (I hope)

[16:14:18]

bergqvistjl:

http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /315060.html

[16:14:41]

bergqvistjl:

How does the method in the mythtv setttings page work?

[16:14:45]

bergqvistjl:

does that use cron as well?

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[16:31:39]

wagnerrp:

no, mythtv will automatically run mythfilldatabase as needed through its own internal housekeeper

[16:33:23]

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[16:58:28]

tonsofpcs:

Does anyone know how often SD pulls updates from Tribune? Also, is there any way that I can force a pull from SchedulesDirect?

[16:59:01]

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[16:59:07]

wagnerrp:

SD doesn't pull from tribune, you pull from tribune

[16:59:28]

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[17:00:02]

robert5:

Happy holidays everyone, It has been a while since I set up an ir blaster. I have my script working in the terminal. For some reason it does not work when I add it as the external channel changing script. I was just wondering if there are any changes to how the channel change scripts work? Thanks

[17:00:06]

tonsofpcs:

I do?

[17:00:43]

wagnerrp:

yes, datadirect is run by tribune

[17:00:57]

wagnerrp:

SD doesn't cache the data, it merely manages the license

[17:01:17]

tonsofpcs:

I see that I pull a "WSDL" from tribune but a "xtvdService" from SD. Does the WSDL include the schedule?

[17:01:50]

wagnerrp:

a WSDL is just a discripter for the services offered by a website

[17:01:59]

wagnerrp:

it contains no real data of its own

[17:03:19]

tonsofpcs:

but that eventually causes my client to pull the actual schedule data from tribune so if tribune updates data, say in fifteen minutes, I can execute a pull right after, say in sixteen minutes, and get the update?

[17:03:43]

wagnerrp:

there's no way to really know when tribune updates things

[17:04:00]

wagnerrp:

and they request we try to limit our access to once per day

[17:04:18]

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[17:04:34]

tonsofpcs:

wagnerrp: well, I work at a TV station and I'd like to be able to force an update of the listings I have after they tell us they've fixed an issue in their listings so that I can confirm it fixed from a consumer angle.

[17:04:47]

wagnerrp:

ideally, you just adjust mythtv-setup to run 'mythfilldatabase --dd-grab-all'

[17:05:12]

wagnerrp:

and once a day, at the time recommended by DD, it flushes all fourteen days of data, and downloads new

[17:08:02]

wagnerrp:

if you want to force a refresh of everything

[17:08:07]

wagnerrp:

just run the same command on the command line

[17:16:20]

robert5:

do you think the issue could lie in the mythtv permissions to access the hardware, it is a clean install, i have never run into this before on mythbuntu

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[17:49:31]

sphery:

tonsofpcs: FWIW, TMS pushes updates to their data once per day... As wagnerrp said, though, the issue is likely that you're not using --dd-grab-all, so you're only pulling tomorrow's data (for a refresh/last-minute updates) and the tail end of the data (+14 days or so) that haven't been updated... Using --dd-grab-all, you'll get all the data refreshed every day, and it's easier on TMS's servers than "standard" tomorrow/+14.

[17:50:21]

sphery:

robert5: no changes to channel-change-script support/usage, so the issue is underneath mythtv

[17:51:22]

sphery:

robert5: might want to have your channel change script echo some comments/debugging to a file: echo Starting channel change with argument %1 >> /tmp/channel_change.log

[17:51:39]

sphery:

and/or you have a permissions problem (which should be apparent from the log messages in your backend log file)

[17:51:59]

sphery:

(or PATH problem)

[18:03:14]

tonsofpcs:

sphery: there's no issue (at least not that I know of). I'm just looking for how to handle it if one crops up (every once in a while we catch the wrong data for a day or block)

[18:10:14]

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[18:12:12]

tonsofpcs:

oh well, I should go back to figuring out how to make mythweb's transcode button make a h.264 version of a show and then give me a link to download it

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[18:18:01]

sphery:

tonsofpcs: I highly recommend looking at http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/449426#449426 and http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 49416#449416 and configuring --dd-grab-all, if your system is powerful enough

[18:21:06]

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[18:24:03]

tonsofpcs:

sphery: thanks :) I'll look at them later today

[18:25:09]

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[18:26:54]

robert5:

sphery, THanks a million, I will add the debugging bit to the script. I just cant figure out why it works in the terminal but does not in mythtv

[18:27:43]

sphery:

robert5: first look at backend log to see if it shows errors when trying to run it

[18:27:49]

sphery:

then the logging may be useful

[18:27:50]

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[18:35:02]

robert5:

sphery, I turned on verbose logging, the only message I can see is:

[18:35:17]

robert5:

Dec 28 02:49:27 robert-myth mythlogserver: mythbackend[2782]: I TVRecEvent system-unix.cpp:868 (Fork) Managed child (PID: 3229) has started! *& command=/home/robert/channel_change/change-channel-11.sh 449, timeout=0

[18:35:35]

robert5:

Dec 28 02:49:27 robert-myth mythlogserver: mythbackend[2782]: N CoreContext autoexpire.cpp:264 (CalcParams) AutoExpire: CalcParams(): Max required Free Space: 3.0 GB w/freq: 15 min

[18:35:35]

sphery:

and none about it exiting?

[18:35:46]

robert5:

Dec 28 02:49:27 robert-myth mythlogserver: mythbackend[2782]: I SystemManager system-unix.cpp:344 (run) Managed child (PID: 3229) has exited! command=/home/robert/channel_change/change-channel-11.sh 449, status=256, result=1

[18:36:07]

sphery:

so it's returning a non-zero exit code, meaning an error

[18:36:12]

sphery:

(in the script)

[18:36:24]

robert5:

ok, awesome

[18:36:25]

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[18:36:49]

sphery:

not necessarily a bad script, but something is happening that the script can't handle

[18:36:58]

sphery:

likely it's calling some program that's failing

[18:38:58]

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[18:39:16]

robert5:

ok, I will take a look, it runs from terminal without returning anything

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[18:42:27]

robert5:

sphery, thanks sphery, back to the grind

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[19:04:20]

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[19:11:40]

** wagnerrp is really beginning to hate sudo **

[19:12:25]

** wagnerrp considers ordering a big metal "you're doing it wrong" stamp **

[19:17:17]

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[19:18:12]

wagnerrp:

i still don't understand the logic behind leaving the root account unusable, but give sudo rights to do everything

[19:18:34]

wagnerrp:

it baffles me how that could be more "safe"

[19:24:06]

GreyFoxx:

All I can imagine it it stop sthe "oops, I didn't realize I was root" accidents

[19:24:24]

GreyFoxx:

because doing a "root" action is a conscious choice

[19:24:35]

GreyFoxx:

personally I find it annoying too :)

[19:24:35]

wagnerrp:

but now we have idiots giving directions like "sudo sh"

[19:24:39]

GreyFoxx:

yeah

[19:24:59]

wagnerrp:

any system that allows sh or any other shell to be run through sudo is a security nightmare

[19:25:20]

wagnerrp:

that is assuming in the first place they're actually trying to properly use sudo to RESTRICT access

[19:25:26]

devinheitmueller:

I happen to use use "sudo /bin/sh" all the time.

[19:25:34]

GreyFoxx:

sudo su -c "whoami"

[19:25:34]

devinheitmueller:

Because in my environment, security is not even remotely a concern.

[19:25:35]

GreyFoxx:

hehe

[19:25:36]

** wagnerrp shudders **

[19:25:39]

wagnerrp:

evil!

[19:25:55]

devinheitmueller:

It's not evil at all. In some environments, you simply don't have to worry about security.

[19:25:56]

wagnerrp:

if you're going to 'sudo sh', why not just 'su'?

[19:26:05]

devinheitmueller:

same thing.

[19:26:08]

wagnerrp:

why bother dicking around with sudo?

[19:26:32]

wagnerrp:

you use sudo because you want to restrict access

[19:26:41]

wagnerrp:

not because you want to open everything up to everyone

[19:26:43]

GreyFoxx:

Generally I end up giving myself passwordless sudo access and all others require get nothing

[19:26:57]

GreyFoxx:

but hey, if I bake my own machines I'm the one who has to fix it anyway :)

[19:27:01]

devinheitmueller:

(also in some environments, like Ubuntu, su is disabled by default)

[19:27:15]

wagnerrp:

su works just fine, but root has no password, so you cannot log into it

[19:27:19]

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[19:27:26]

wagnerrp:

you can still su to other users

[19:27:45]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, sudo su gives you root access in ubuntu

[19:27:50]

devinheitmueller:

Sure, so I can either sudo and then set roots password to something else, or I can just sudo /bin/bash.

[19:28:26]

wagnerrp:

but if you're going to sudo some shell, why use sudo at all?

[19:28:30]

devinheitmueller:

But to my point, there *are* cases where it's perfectly acceptable to run as root. Not everybody is as concerned about security as you are.

[19:28:44]

wagnerrp:

sure, i run as root all the time

[19:28:45]

devinheitmueller:

(and that doesn't make them idiots)

[19:28:57]

wagnerrp:

what i'm saying is that if you are going to run as root, just run as root, don't bother involving sudo

[19:29:03]

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[19:30:10]

wagnerrp:

what i'm implying is that the ONLY reason to use sudo is because you ARE concerned about security

[19:30:27]

wagnerrp:

and you want to give limited rights to certain users, using sudo to filter the commands they are allowed to run

[19:33:06]

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[19:35:41]

terron:

I'm installing mythtv in debian and getting the error message "Database error was: Table 'mythconverg.settings' doesn't exist". The mythconverg database was automatically created when I installed it, do I need to manually create this table and if so, is there any required data it must have?

[19:36:24]

wagnerrp:

what specifically is giving you that error?

[19:36:57]

terron:

When I run mythtv-setup, it says it can't connect to the database. I grabbed that error message from mythbackend.log

[19:36:57]

wagnerrp:

the first thing you should be running is mythtv-setup, and mythtv-setup should take care of populating that empty database, including creating the mythconverg.settings table

[19:37:13]

terron:

it doesn't

[19:37:24]

wagnerrp:

don't bother with mythbackend until you've run through mythtv-setup and configured everything

[19:38:14]

terron:

I'm not, mythtv-setup can't connect to the database either. I figured that was the reason for the failure

[19:39:42]

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[19:47:48]

jarle:

So what has happened to the (backend) logging in 0.26, No logging to --logpath anymore??

[19:48:06]

wagnerrp:

it still logs to --logpath just fine

[19:53:33]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: just probably started a little s**tstorm over on linux-media as a result of ABI breakage being proposed which will cause Myth to stop working with analog capture.

[19:53:34]

terron:

So does the mythtv-setup command log anywhere? I don't see anything and once I cleared /var/log/mythtv, nothing was changed after running it

[19:53:56]

devinheitmueller:

See, people *are* trying to keep an eye on breaking applications. :-)

[19:54:27]

wagnerrp:

mailing list or chat room?

[19:54:30]

devinheitmueller:

ML

[19:54:55]

devinheitmueller:

No replies yet, but I guarantee what I have said is going to be unpopular.

[19:54:56]

wagnerrp:

terron: if you do not run it with any special logging parameters, it only logs to the terminal you ran the application from

[19:54:56]

devinheitmueller:

"ABI breakage due to "Unsupported formats in TRY_FMT/S_FMT" recommendation"

[19:56:56]

terron:

ah

[19:57:08]

terron:

for some reason mythtv set up the user with the wrong password

[19:57:51]

wagnerrp:

which user? system user or database user?

[19:58:02]

terron:

the mythtv user

[19:58:19]

wagnerrp:

the 'mythtv' system user, or the 'mythtv' database user?

[19:59:19]

terron:

database

[19:59:23]

wagnerrp:

mythtv comes with a small sql file that creates an empty 'mythconverg' database, and adds credentials for name and password both set to 'mythtv'

[19:59:44]

wagnerrp:

mythtv-setup will default to using those credentials, and should only ask you otherwise if those are not valid

[19:59:59]

terron:

I'm not sure what it set the database user's password to, but it wasn't that

[20:00:04]

jarle:

wagnerrp: but what's the deal with mythlogserver then? Is it started by the frontend?

[20:00:40]

wagnerrp:

not entirely sure the purpose of that, ask beirdo

[20:00:51]

wagnerrp:

but everything should continue to get logged where it was previously

[20:03:08]

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[20:09:27]

jarle:

I have some serious timeouts quite often (but not always) when doing stuff like deleting a recording, start playback, create a new recording rule. The system just hangs for over a minute. Any suggestions what I should look into? I'm thinking that it might ba a result of recordings it can not find, or something messed up in the db, anything else?

[20:11:26]

jarle:

hmmm mysqld is running at 93% CPU right now, guess I need to look into that...

[20:13:39]

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[20:14:20]

justinh:

meh. 93% CPU. I wish one of the systems I have to oversee from time to time only used 93% CPU on MySQL :-\

[20:15:14]

jarle:

justinh: meaning high CPU load on mysqld is normal on a mythtv box?

[20:16:02]

justinh:

no, shouldn't be.. well certainly not for very long – if at all

[20:18:21]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: it's for centralized logging that will allow us to log right until the dying gasp without losing a pile of messages at shutdown

[20:21:29]

justinh:

jarle: the system I keep seeing stupid mysql loads on is running a big (compared to mythtv) database of about 10GB, has too little RAM & the web app it runs isn't quite as optimised as it could be

[20:21:50]

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[20:23:28]

justinh:

huh? The Hobbit film is less than three hours long? How did that happen? I might even consider seeing it at some point!

[20:25:45]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: doesn't the escape catching allow us to do that anyway?

[20:25:52]

justinh:

and, I'm sick & tired of not being able to wake my frontend over the lan. No way am I prepared to spend hour after hour messing around with kernel patches etc.. so it's back to the old distro folks

[20:27:42]

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[20:30:21]

Beirdo:

no, it really doesn't

[20:30:59]

wagnerrp:

once the error occurs, all existing code is scrapped... the error handling just allows new code to be run?

[20:31:03]

Beirdo:

there were huge race conditions in shutdown

[20:31:38]

Beirdo:

now as long as it gets it out the socket to the logserver, the program can disappear under it and the message still gets logged

[20:31:51]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: fyi, they broke it into three movies.

[20:32:19]

Beirdo:

rather than having the code disappear while we are trying to push out the logs from the program that's disappearing.

[20:32:42]

Beirdo:

it also drastically decreases the effects of logging on each process

[20:33:04]

Beirdo:

centralizes the painful parts

[20:33:21]

justinh:

devinheitmueller: yeah but I'd rather not sit in a cinema seat for 3+ hours ;-)

[20:34:07]

devinheitmueller:

Sure. I'm just saying they managed to fit it into < 3 hours because they split the story up into three movies (and of course, three movie tickets).

[20:34:36]

wagnerrp:

i saw return of the king in the theater... twice! (for free)

[20:34:39]

Beirdo:

how many movies would the Silmarillion take? :)

[20:34:47]

devinheitmueller:

Beirdo: :-)

[20:34:54]

wagnerrp:

it was all worth it to watch the one guy run screaming through the halls on fire, and then jump off he cliff

[20:35:08]

wagnerrp:

i think i slept a good part of the rest

[20:36:05]

justinh:

there was one of the ringish films on my parents' HDTV over christmas. You could see the edges of the green screen in some shots, I swear

[20:36:30]

justinh:

ok maybe not *that* bad but some of the compositing kinda stood out a bit

[20:37:53]

justinh:

oh, and UK HDTV over DVB-S.. looks ok most of the time but some channels are very poorly encoded. BLOCKY

[20:38:05]

justinh:

I won't be rushing out to buy a HDTV

[20:38:53]

justinh:

my life has come to something when my dad has a newer TV than me. Heh

[20:39:41]

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[20:41:20]

EvilGuru:

justinh: C4 and ITVHD are not bad

[20:41:35]

EvilGuru:

BBC HD and BBC ONE HD, however, are awful

[20:42:15]

EvilGuru:

And not only are they planning on wasting bandwidth on regional variants of BBC ONE HD they are putting them all on the same mplex

[20:42:35]

justinh:

EvilGuru: C4 looked the worst IMHO

[20:42:51]

EvilGuru:

Which will completely break any stat-mplexing

[20:43:05]

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[20:43:20]

justinh:

oh well. so HD really isn't worth having at all for telly over here then

[20:43:27]

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[20:43:45]

EvilGuru:

For films it often works out quite nicely, but that is basically all I record on HD

[20:44:16]

justinh:

ITV HD was the worst thing I've ever seen in 'aitch dee'

[20:44:24]

justinh:

might as well have been Youtube

[20:44:49]

justinh:

I dunno why but their favoured production style for a lot of shows turns to mush when they fade to black. which they do a lot

[20:45:14]

justinh:

deblock *that* !

[20:46:01]

justinh:

FWIW I'd take a little bit of moire noise over macroblock artifacting any day

[20:46:08]

justinh:

long live analogue!

[20:46:51]

** justinh feels old **

[20:46:56]

EvilGuru:

This is what happens when you do not specify a minimum bitrate for something to be called television

[20:47:15]

justinh:

there should've been rules about that

[20:47:24]

EvilGuru:

We have it for chocolate and whisky, why not TV? Less than 1.8 GiB/hour MPEG2-T2 is grim. Period

[20:47:40]

justinh:

mpeg2? since when?

[20:47:45]

EvilGuru:

*TS

[20:47:54]

justinh:

oh right

[20:47:57]

EvilGuru:

I remember when BBC ONE used to be 3 GiB/hour SD

[20:48:07]

justinh:

I remember when all this was just fields ;-)

[20:48:24]

justinh:

I remember when we had SIX muxes

[20:48:40]

EvilGuru:

And half as many channels!

[20:49:11]

justinh:

and you know on DAB when channels die? They don't use the freed up bandwidth for other stations. Oh no

[20:49:27]

justinh:

we don't really have more channels now, FWIW

[20:49:39]

justinh:

there are way more placeholders for MHEG JUNK

[20:49:50]

EvilGuru:

Depends if you count +1 stuff as channels

[20:50:06]

justinh:

Gay rabbit Shopping Vajazzle Network Gems Dating

[20:50:35]

justinh:

they should totally ban +1 channels. Or replace them with -1 channels. whatever

[20:50:48]

justinh:

want +1? GET A PVR

[20:51:05]

EvilGuru:

Or a watch so you don't miss it the first time around

[20:51:22]

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[20:51:27]

justinh:

is that new C4 channel on freeview? The 'best of the last 7 days' thing?

[20:51:42]

EvilGuru:

No idea, have not bothered to tune it in

[20:51:58]

justinh:

hope not. that'd be another waste. use 4OD instead, proles!

[20:52:51]

justinh:

EvilGuru: yeah I've not rescanned for a long, long time. I hate rescanning

[20:52:54]

EvilGuru:

Probably better quality if they use decent H.264 encoding

[20:52:59]

justinh:

it's so ... confusing

[20:53:13]

** EvilGuru doesn't rescan, I find peoples myth tv database dumps and manually add in the entires **

[20:54:18]

justinh:

WTH is 'Really' ??

[20:55:05]

justinh:

OH. That. Don't want that

[20:55:12]

EvilGuru:

according to my listings it is the channel currently showing "ghost adventures"

[20:55:33]

EvilGuru:

followed by "paranormal witness", whatever that is

[20:55:44]

justinh:

EvilGuru: where are you finding mysql dumps? ;-)

[20:56:14]

EvilGuru:

pastebin, I search for the column headings of the channels table

[20:56:36]

justinh:

heheheh

[20:57:05]

EvilGuru:

I then look up the mplex the channel is on, find an already tuned channel on the same mplex and use its mplexid

[20:57:10]

justinh:

oh there it is. 4–7

[20:57:24]

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[20:58:02]

EvilGuru:

It is a good system, can add/'rescan' a channel in ~40 seconds, all without restarting the backend

[20:58:03]

justinh:

30+ actual TV channels in the space of five old analogue channels. That's just... unpossible

[20:58:14]

EvilGuru:

No VNC, no mythsetup nonsense

[20:58:28]

justinh:

on your head be the database restoration ;-)

[20:58:48]

EvilGuru:

I trust myself more than the setup util

[20:59:04]

justinh:

WTH? Argos TV?!?!?!?!

[20:59:12]

EvilGuru:

Last time I used that it managed to put my DVB-S and DVB-T tuners onto the same input group

[20:59:26]

EvilGuru:

justinh: Maybe the world really did end on the 21st

[20:59:40]

justinh:

heh

[20:59:44]

EvilGuru:

High street chains having their own TV channels is one of my apocolypse signs

[21:00:24]

justinh:

I'd rather high street chains have their own TV channels than newspapers

[21:00:59]

EvilGuru:

I'd take Press TV over Argos TV...and that is saving something

[21:02:42]

justinh:

never seen either

[21:04:06]

justinh:

bah, I give up searching pastebin

[21:04:35]

justinh:

incidentally, how the hell is there so many mythtv data on pastebin.com ?

[21:07:56]

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[21:08:08]

tgm4883:

justinh, we, at least in the past, used pastebin.com to upload logs to from our mythbuntu-log-grabber tool

[21:08:30]

tgm4883:

we have a particular format though, so it would be easy to identify if it's from our tool

[21:09:29]

dekarl:

EvilGuru: justinh: does the BBC not use dynamic PMT? aka send *one* video stream down the mux for all regions unless the actual content is different (e.g. regional news)

[21:09:50]

EvilGuru:

dekarl: I do not believe so, — I may be wrong, though

[21:10:30]

dekarl:

I have never heard of them using it. All the stations that I know are using it are in germany

[21:10:56]

justinh:

tgm4883: ah that'd explain it

[21:10:57]

dekarl:

but that would be a good reason *for* putting all regional variants on the same mux

[21:11:13]

justinh:

regional variants. Pah

[21:11:34]

EvilGuru:

death to regional news, no one cares that aunt Mavis' cat got stuck up a tree

[21:11:49]

justinh:

I've seen our regional news here. Too much of what's been going on (i.e. who's been getting shot to death) in Liverpool

[21:11:54]

tgm4883:

justinh, there is a lame attempt at a ToC that should be at the top of ours. Looks similar to == mythtv frontend ==, == mythtv backend ==, etc

[21:12:56]

justinh:

death to news actually. Ironic they call it NEWs when so little of it IS actually NEW

[21:13:24]

justinh:

hear a bulletin on the radio when I wake up. Same thing on TV at lunchtime.. same thing on the radio on the drive home.. and on the TV when I get home

[21:14:22]

justinh:

anyway.. getting mythtv channel data for the UK from pastebin.com... not looking very likely with some of the submission dates there

[21:21:16]

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[21:28:09]

dekarl:

devinheitmueller: how can I see by what a patch got superseded? http://patchwork.linuxtv.org/patch/14665/

[21:28:36]

devinheitmueller:

Not sure. That said, I know which patch it was.

[21:28:37]

devinheitmueller:

one sec.

[21:29:23]

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[21:30:42]

devinheitmueller:

dekarl: it was this pull request: "[PULL] dvb: push down ioctl lock in dvb_usercopy / fix ioctls failing if frontend open/closed too fast"

[21:31:07]

devinheitmueller:

http://git.linuxtv.org/mkrufky/dvb.git/commit . . . 643073d3af9f

[21:31:59]

devinheitmueller:

Agreed it seems strange that patchwork can mark a patch as superseded, but it doesn't require you to specify what it was superseded by.

[21:32:29]

dekarl:

ahh, that pull request is not on patchwork... no wonder I did not find it. ty

[21:33:00]

dekarl:

yes, that makes it a bit hard to follow the progress on a patch :)

[21:33:04]

devinheitmueller:

Yup

[21:33:09]

devinheitmueller:

I didn't write patchwork. :-)

[21:35:11]

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[22:03:01]

justinh:

bwahahaha. Smart TV app usage is low.. users are shunning internet use on TV

[22:03:42]

justinh:

HUGE surprise to some no doubt. Not to anybody who's ever tried to use a Smart TV's UI

[22:03:56]

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[22:04:35]

dekarl:

I would have expected good usage of the VOD apps of the big stations, like iPlayer

[22:05:04]

ertyu-m:

I'm trying to track down various crashes in myth subsystems but can't seem to find anything concrete in the logs, what can I try or where can I look?

[22:05:05]

wagnerrp:

justinh: have you ever used a smarttv?

[22:05:12]

wagnerrp:

it's somewhere between clumsy and painful

[22:06:05]

wagnerrp:

they try too hard to be a TV for them to be a decent "smart tv"

[22:06:19]

wagnerrp:

it takes far too long to bring up the "smart" capabilities

[22:06:31]

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[22:06:40]

wagnerrp:

you can't overlay them, or be accessing such content while still displaying tv or video input in the background

[22:09:28]

dekarl:

ertyu-m: try http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging#Basic_backtrace

[22:11:00]

dekarl:

hmm, after actually reading that section you might want http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging#Getting_a_Backtrace

[22:12:27]

ertyu-m:

ok, thanks, I'll give that a try and see what else pops up

[22:12:31]

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[22:26:11]

justinh:

wagnerrp: yes I have. It's awful

[22:26:29]

justinh:

for iplayer, youtube etc not so bad but SLOW & LAGGY

[22:26:33]

wagnerrp:

if they were actually a nice experience, i would consider using them

[22:26:37]

justinh:

for everything else.. jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

[22:26:48]

justinh:

especially the ONEBIGLISTOFFILES features

[22:26:54]

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[22:27:02]

wagnerrp:

heh, like the mythtv upnp server?

[22:27:19]

justinh:

so the screens swish & swoosh around.. but the 'app' loading times & so on.. bleugh

[22:27:36]

wagnerrp:

my TV gets somewhere around the 'G's before it hits some kind of length limit

[22:27:48]

justinh:

how come so much stuff is bogged down in 'loading' time in this century?

[22:28:01]

justinh:

wagnerrp: prolly OOM

[22:28:32]

wagnerrp:

that's something i really should get fixed before 0.27

[22:28:51]

justinh:

remember being appalled at bluray player loading times – the time between loading the disc & being about to watch something. I somehow imagined they'd be like DVD. Whoops no.

[22:29:02]

justinh:

s/about/able/

[22:29:15]

wagnerrp:

of course not, they have to spool up a big fancy JVM to run the menu

[22:29:43]

justinh:

they don't HAVE to .. it's just that they have to

[22:29:52]

justinh:

if you know what I mean.

[22:30:11]

wagnerrp:

well the bluray spec demands it, nothing the players can do about it

[22:30:22]

justinh:

it didn't *have* to demand it is what I mean

[22:30:26]

ertyu-m:

they could install much bigger processors :)

[22:30:40]

justinh:

ertyu-m: it'd still be dog slow prolly

[22:31:06]

dekarl:

or just use one of the "native" java cpus ;)

[22:31:15]

justinh:

you should see the software written in Java at work we call 'NotVu Obscurer'. Jees. on a C2D it can still take over a minute to load

[22:31:40]

justinh:

or they could like er... just NOT USE JAVA AT ALL :-O

[22:31:45]

ertyu-m:

java doesn't have to be slow

[22:31:49]

justinh:

I know

[22:32:02]

ertyu-m:

most java apps seem to end up that way though

[22:32:06]

justinh:

but the only time I've ever known it not be slow & leaking memory like a colander was ProjectX

[22:34:41]

skd5aner:

I need to build a new desktop desperately

[22:35:02]

skd5aner:

I've had just about enough of my current old fart

[22:37:32]

skd5aner:

but, I'm debating getting a laptop with a docking station instead

[22:37:51]

skd5aner:

and perhaps just a NAS to backend all the data

[22:38:44]

justinh:

a powerful desktop machine is much cheaper than the equivalent laptop though

[22:38:50]

skd5aner:

yea, I know

[22:38:58]

** justinh is cheap **

[22:39:07]

skd5aner:

but I spend much more time in the living room now with the family than I do the office, except during the work day

[22:39:10]

justinh:

£300 or so laptop... and a £300 or so desktop machine

[22:39:24]

justinh:

hahaha. computing with the family in the room. That's an amusing concept

[22:39:49]

skd5aner:

wife is a little tired of me "stealing" her laptop that I bought her last Christmas while I'm on the couch all the time

[22:40:00]

justinh:

We've more or less got Tom under control now he's a bit older, but it's Emily with her constant desire to shut laptop lids

[22:40:14]

skd5aner:

Mine's 19 months now

[22:40:24]

justinh:

10 months old now, walking around shutting the laptop lid

[22:41:04]

justinh:

tom comes up to me if my laptop's on & just says "beebies!".. and expects me to surf over the the cbeebies site for him

[22:41:06]

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[22:41:24]

justinh:

which is a better deal than throwing a tantrum & bashing the keys

[22:41:24]

skd5aner:

heh

[22:41:50]

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[22:42:10]

dekarl:

lucky me, at 6 months mine's happy with looking at (and trying to grab) all backlit displays :)

[22:42:27]

justinh:

he was a little bugger over xmas at my parents' place though. wouldn't stay in bed or go to sleep for anything

[22:42:36]

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[22:42:40]

skd5aner:

my old house had the office directly next to the living room – so I'd often just be right nearby. But in my current place, the office is on the complete opposite end, so I don't like to escape that far away

[22:43:19]

skd5aner:

dekarl: all babies think that LCDs are the most magical thing ever...

[22:43:39]

justinh:

christmas improved significantly once we got home the other day. my parents are too cavalier with everything. tom tripped their electrics godknows how many times cos he could switch their pond pump on from the hallway

[22:43:51]

skd5aner:

we use our smartphones as emergency distraction devices in public... and try to avoid them around her at all other times so that the "magic" always works :)

[22:44:08]

justinh:

"just tell him NO" my dad says. yeah Dad. try JUST saying NO

[22:44:32]

skd5aner:

yea... my mom gets it...

[22:44:38]

skd5aner:

my dad, on the other hand... same story

[22:44:42]

justinh:

skd5aner: we're lucky in that we don't have to resort to that much

[22:45:05]

skd5aner:

neither do we, but on those occasions when we do – it's a blessing

[22:45:08]

justinh:

though I'd be really temped the first time he throws a tantrum in a shop, do imitate him

[22:45:26]

skd5aner:

my dad just assumes that his phone is her favorite toy, and always wants to give it to her

[22:45:28]

skd5aner:

all the time

[22:45:52]

justinh:

this.. is just mint IMHO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6XZ-0ns2yA

[22:45:55]

dekarl:

just playing "Schneewalzer" works to calm her down. But running around a clothing store with your baby on your belly and your mobile in the hand playing a waltz makes people look funny

[22:46:59]

justinh:

dekarl: I find people looked at me funny when I was doing all the googoo stuff when we had Emily in her buggy in a shop.

[22:47:29]

justinh:

I mean.. she's my daughter for pity's sakes.. pricks!

[22:47:33]

skd5aner:

justinh: heh – we don't have that vicks commercial in the US (ttbomk) – pretty good

[22:48:05]

skd5aner:

people tend to just go with the flow, and other parents totally get it... I rarely get eyes or looks

[22:48:11]

skd5aner:

sometimes in restaraunts

[22:48:15]

justinh:

other times Emily'll just start laughing at really random things.. when we're out & about. People actually TUT

[22:48:40]

dekarl:

that vicks ad is nice, I wonder what Emelie will think when I perform like that :)

[22:48:51]

justinh:

oh, I found it really easy just to zone out & stop feeling self conscious. face it, you either do, or you're not much of a great parent ;-)

[22:49:26]

justinh:

be a staid Dad.. like my Dad was (is).. much fun!

[22:49:45]

justinh:

what? bedtime story character voices are for sissies? Hahahaha

[22:50:45]

justinh:

btw disclaimer: I'm probably NOT a model parent.. and I have no frickin idea what I'm doing, FWIW

[22:51:02]

skd5aner:

having a daughter finally gave me an excuse for acting goofy all the time – not the cause of it ;)

[22:51:17]

justinh:

but we all hope & pray that A) my kids don't turn out to be like me, and B) don't turn out like other people's kids

[22:52:19]

skd5aner:

My daughter is attempting to surf inside a toy grocery cart... I'm sure you're doing just fine ;)

[22:52:44]

justinh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM8ym0FqM_k – forgot about this one. CLASSIC!

[22:53:10]

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[22:53:53]

justinh:

anyway.. this mythtv thing.. ;-)

[22:54:17]

skd5aner:

yea... it sucks

[22:54:30]

skd5aner:

why would anyone use this piece of crap

[22:54:49]

skd5aner:

or dedicate so much time to it, like hanging out in IRC channels and the like?

[22:55:26]

justinh:

absolutely no idea

[22:56:03]

justinh:

maybe they don't have a love life any more because they're on a vasectomy waiting list & they're too scared of being a parent again? ;-)

[22:56:06]

skd5aner:

justinh: btw, did you see IJR uses WMC now?

[22:56:39]

justinh:

yeah I kind of caught something about that in here a while back

[22:56:48]

skd5aner:

too funny

[22:57:08]

justinh:

I don't think it's funny. I think it's sad that it's even necessary

[22:57:09]

skd5aner:

kind of like finding out Santa Claus isn't real

[22:57:38]

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[22:57:49]

justinh:

you can call it out & go "nah, we ain't having no steenkin pay teevees".. or just take the red pill like everybody else did

[22:58:08]

justinh:

it's still likely not as suck as the cableco's DVR

[22:58:31]

skd5aner:

yea... makes me actually think about the "sunk cost" of mythtv at this point – perhaps time to re-evaluate options

[22:58:36]

justinh:

which being realistic, is why mythtv existed in the first place

[22:58:41]

skd5aner:

(for me, personally, that is)

[22:58:47]

justinh:

I often think about it

[22:59:05]

justinh:

but seriously. NO other DVR/NMT does what mythtv does so well. even with its faults

[22:59:12]

justinh:

not for me anyway

[22:59:13]

skd5aner:

If I could use the HDHR Prime to the fullest extent, it'd be worth it to switch...

[22:59:36]

justinh:

freeview/freesat DVRs SUCK to high heaven here

[22:59:41]

skd5aner:

I was able to use it on Comcast, which flagged almost everything as copy freely and worked well with MythTV – my current providers flags everything as copy once

[22:59:50]

justinh:

our cable co has Tivo, but even that sucks

[23:00:07]

justinh:

Sky's DVR sucks even worse

[23:00:35]

skd5aner:

justinh: agreed... the scheduler, the playback capabilities (timestretch), etc...

[23:00:38]

skd5aner:

but...

[23:00:47]

justinh:

if anybody thinks mythtv's fonts are too big in the 'readability' theme.. check out Sky TV's UI

[23:00:50]

skd5aner:

all for not if I can't record my content

[23:00:58]

justinh:

yeah true

[23:01:14]

justinh:

but I wouldn't be getting any more content if I didn't use mythtv

[23:01:31]

justinh:

not until everything, and I mean everything is PPV

[23:02:11]

justinh:

wanna watch series X? Sure, just pay to watch series X – not subscribe to a bunch of frickin awful channels which show a load of dirge you'd never be interested in

[23:02:56]

skd5aner:

I'm strongly considering going netflix only and just getting the locals

[23:03:07]

skd5aner:

(broadcast stations)

[23:03:20]

skd5aner:

but, again... mythtv doesn't help me much there

[23:03:46]

justinh:

we had a TV show over here called Tomorrow's World which ran until the lateish 1990s.. in 1980something they showed this cable tv on-demand thingy.. and it just blew my young mind away, Watch what you want, when you want! OMG! WANT that NOW!

[23:03:54]

justinh:

and yet.. we're STILL waiting for that

[23:03:59]

justinh:

like 30 years or more on

[23:04:15]

skd5aner:

we have that in the US – sorta

[23:04:22]

tonsofpcs:

should feature requests be added to trac or posted somewhere else somehow else?

[23:04:29]

skd5aner:

tonsofpcs: wiki

[23:04:31]

tonsofpcs:

what about feature requests for mythweb?

[23:04:33]

skd5aner:

there's a page for them

[23:04:34]

justinh:

/dev/null

[23:04:36]

skd5aner:

tonsofpcs: same

[23:04:38]

justinh:

oops I meant the wiki

[23:05:10]

skd5aner:

but, be forewarned... rarely do any of hte devs care to go an read them, and they really get pissed if you use trac for feature requests

[23:05:28]

justinh:

thing about netflix et al... apparently they don't always have all the things.. so if you want all the things you might need more than one service.. and we're back at square one

[23:05:48]

skd5aner:

yea... is Hulu available in the UK?

[23:05:51]

justinh:

nope

[23:06:02]

skd5aner:

is there an equivalent?

[23:06:05]

justinh:

nope

[23:06:35]

justinh:

over here there are separate 'players' for the 5 main TV companies

[23:07:00]

skd5aner:

yea, I know of iPlayer

[23:07:03]

justinh:

iPlayer for the BBC, ITV Player for ITV... 4OD for Channel4 stuff.. and Channel Five's thingy.. and Sky Player

[23:07:31]

justinh:

then YouView came along which 'integrated' them all.. only it didn't.. it's a 'portal' for each of the apps

[23:07:49]

justinh:

oh and BT Vision..

[23:08:14]

justinh:

so we've got all these things with different shows.. and netflix.. and there's another one... all have different content mixes...

[23:08:27]

justinh:

choice is good, ja?

[23:08:43]

skd5aner:

da

[23:09:38]

justinh:

BTW none of these things really work on Linux.. unless you're in the select few for whom Adobe Gash plays back video nicely

[23:10:24]

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[23:11:04]

justinh:

£6.99 a month for all the shows I can eat might be nice if a) the quality is OK and b) they've got the shows I want

[23:11:47]

justinh:

cos I ain't paying £30+ a month for Sky to get the shows they bought up to stop them going on free telly services

[23:12:08]

skd5aner:

yea, so then... how to watch them on the TV(s)?

[23:12:13]

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[23:12:41]

justinh:

well there's erm... record them off of terrestrial telly.. or erm.. AHEM... or just don't bother

[23:13:38]

justinh:

the guys at work were moaning the other week that AHEM wasn't working so well these days with all the DMCA takedown stuff going on

[23:14:12]

tonsofpcs:

skd5aner: I don't see the mythweb section... is it buried in one of the others? (I'm bouncing off a few connections for network access here so it's a bit slow and it might be cut off on a page still loading)

[23:14:26]

tonsofpcs:

justinh: I'd gladly trade hulu for iplayer.

[23:14:41]

justinh:

if it keeps going at the rate they say it is, maybe the UK internets will be really fast without upgrading stuff everywhere :P

[23:14:44]

tonsofpcs:

I'll even pay for the tv license

[23:15:00]

justinh:

tonsofpcs: but the BBC doesn't actually produce that many GREAT shows itself

[23:15:11]

tonsofpcs:

justinh: the only way for the UK "Internets" to be fast is for everything to move to the UK. You're on an island, get used to it :)

[23:15:18]

justinh:

at least not many I want to watch

[23:15:40]

tonsofpcs:

justinh: Doctor Who, Top Gear, uh... NFC if there's going to be another torchwood....

[23:15:51]

justinh:

MEH. MEH, MEH

[23:16:23]

justinh:

Torchwood was too.. ghey. And not in a good way

[23:16:39]

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[23:16:40]

justinh:

Top Gear.. too fake & they're not even trying to hide it anymore

[23:16:46]

skd5aner:

tonsofpcs: all of the devs who maintained mythweb have decided to... not maintain it anymore

[23:17:02]

justinh:

DW... reserving judgment on that til I've seen the xmas spesh

[23:17:04]

skd5aner:

it's basically on life support right now... if anyone changes something, they are responsible for making sure mythweb doesn't break

[23:17:19]

skd5aner:

look at the # of changes to mythweb between 0.25 to 0.26

[23:17:34]

justinh:

skd5aner: this, I take it, is in deference to having mythtv web services. I hope

[23:18:07]

skd5aner:

justinh: but a web service is no good without out a UI in front of it

[23:18:28]

justinh:

I still remember when Top Gear talked about issues which real motorists have to contend with.. and they reviewed cars that didn't cost half a million quid

[23:19:15]

justinh:

Top gear is now the telly equivalent of a drunken group of lads in a bar standing on the bar with their genitals out, waving them at everybody

[23:19:28]

skd5aner:

I don't go to those bars

[23:19:36]

justinh:

lol

[23:20:14]

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[23:20:59]

justinh:

don't get me wrong about TG... I like the camerawork, the editing (especially) .. and the car porn sometimes.. but those three guys... gah.

[23:21:22]

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[23:21:39]

wagnerrp:

justinh: not quite

[23:21:40]

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[23:21:58]

wagnerrp:

you forgot that they're making fun of each others' penises

[23:22:06]

justinh:

oh yeah that

[23:22:30]

justinh:

the challenges & stuff were great fun, but it just kept getting stupider & stupider

[23:23:09]

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[23:23:39]

skd5aner:

That's all the US version is

[23:23:39]

justinh:

still, I'd much rather top gear exists than say,, Stricly Come Dancing

[23:24:28]

justinh:

although if SCD *must* exist, let it be without the men, and all the women have to be easy on the eye (SEXIST!).. and... it's on after 11pm...

[23:24:36]

justinh:

and then it's a different show

[23:26:22]

justinh:

God, I'm turning into my dad. That's awful

[23:26:31]

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[23:27:08]

justinh:

so anyway, literally nobody is developing mythweb anymore?

[23:27:35]

jpabq:

xris says he may start working on mythweb again.

[23:28:10]

justinh:

well, if nobody breaks it... nothing to complain about

[23:29:06]

justinh:

but I guess with the new stuff coming along it's all gonna be so much better integrated if it's done 'properly'

[23:29:10]

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[23:29:17]

skd5aner:

jpabq: well, I'll believe it when I see it...

[23:29:40]

justinh:

in many projects there are a whole load of pretty unglamorous unthanked-for jobs

[23:29:49]

justinh:

and not that many people who like doing them

[23:29:51]

skd5aner:

pretty common to hear folks around this parts say that they're thinking of doing something

[23:30:02]

skd5aner:

s/this/these

[23:30:15]

** wagnerrp actually prefers the background stuff **

[23:30:43]

justinh:

but amen to those people who do them, or there'd be hell to pay for everyone else

[23:31:20]

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[23:31:26]

skd5aner:

true dat...

[23:31:48]

justinh:

I still wanna hack on mythweb a bit to put a single simple rec button in the grid EPG view

[23:31:52]

justinh:

in every program location

[23:32:03]

justinh:

guy at work is gonna help me with that

[23:32:10]

skd5aner:

funny thing is, that the vast majority of commits over the past year have been mainly background stuff

[23:32:58]

skd5aner:

I'm wondering who's going to start working on the glamorous stuff again?

[23:33:06]

justinh:

yeah well, the reason for a lot of things being the way they are is... to do things better sometimes you have to start again.. or tread on people's toes.. or alienate users ...

[23:33:35]

justinh:

or alienate developers.. who go off & do other projects which eventually atrophy... :-(

[23:34:07]

skd5aner:

you're definitely right about it being a basically thankless job

[23:34:53]

dekarl:

justinh: with the reduced set of recording rule types and keying off category_type=series that "one click recording" should be simple (well, the logic behind it should be ;)

[23:35:20]

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[23:35:27]

skd5aner:

well, classic example... mythmusic... I'm one of the "haters" of the new interface... I honestly do hate it, and so does my wife, and so do a lot of other folks...

[23:35:36]

justinh:

imagine some really important library in mythtv wasn't up to the task for a new feature. Sure you could bolt one one & cover the nuts with duct tape but it'd be nasty... better to make a new thing with all your desired features in one

[23:35:45]

skd5aner:

but Paul put in a LOT of effort for it... and he thinks it's logical and a good UI...

[23:35:58]

justinh:

yup

[23:36:07]

skd5aner:

hard to thank him for all that hard work when so many users don't like it

[23:36:20]

skd5aner:

that's not to say it was "bad" work... or that he didn't put a lot of thought in to it

[23:36:21]

justinh:

and I dunno WTF XBMC's idea of 'logical' is but I'm damned if I can navigate it with a keyboard

[23:36:29]

justinh:

yeah yeah I know all this

[23:36:51]

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[23:37:08]

justinh:

I can't stand having so many bloody menus

[23:37:15]

justinh:

so many menu keys.. TWO!

[23:37:20]

skd5aner:

I spent a good 10 minutes on Christmas morning, trying to get a new Christmas album, which was already in dir structure, in to mythmusic, and then simply play it

[23:37:22]

skd5aner:

never happened

[23:37:31]

justinh:

TWO menu buttons! GAH! But can I think of a better way, without removing features? LOL

[23:37:42]

skd5aner:

I gave up and told my wife to finally just let me daughter come down and open gifts and let the laptop speakers blare :P

[23:38:26]

skd5aner:

old mythmusic... super easy to add and play

[23:38:43]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: over six years with mythtv, and i still haven't spent more than maybe an hour with mythmusic

[23:39:02]

wagnerrp:

we've just got an ipod hooked up to the receiver

[23:39:35]

wagnerrp:

although i can't imagine the UI there is any better than what mythmusic has

[23:40:05]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: I've had an itunes express hooked up to my receiver for years, but broke the optical cable on the last move and haven't hooked it back up yet

[23:40:41]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: go play with it, for an hour now... see if it makes any logical sense to you...

[23:40:49]

wagnerrp:

actually, most of the music is just CDs in a pair of carousel players

[23:41:16]

wagnerrp:

the ipod is a recent addition

[23:42:09]

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[23:42:52]

skd5aner:

Unfortuantely, Paul has been jaded by both devs and users... and so any criticism is seen as negative by him... I understand his position, but his error was in doing all the development in his own private branch for years, and then finally commiting the final product

[23:43:13]

** justinh still can't figure out selective syncing. sometimes it works.. sometimes partially... sometimes not at all. damn ipoo **

[23:43:14]

skd5aner:

no one got any preliminary input

[23:43:32]

justinh:

skd5aner: nobody stopped anyone else doing their own branch

[23:43:38]

skd5aner:

yes they did...

[23:43:44]

skd5aner:

not directly, but indirectly...

[23:44:04]

wagnerrp:

it's the whole "one is coming" feeling, that makes you reluctant to write your own

[23:44:17]

justinh:

one is coming but how long have we been waiting? heh

[23:44:34]

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[23:44:37]

skd5aner:

lots of people had murmors of at least improving the existing mythmusic, or converting it to Qt4... but every time it came up, Paul said he had already made substantial progress on a re-write, and people were discouraged to spend time on something that would likely be irrelavent anyway

[23:44:51]

justinh:

the whole 'with a tv remote control' paradigm makes it difficult though

[23:44:52]

skd5aner:

several years goes by, and Paul finally releases it

[23:45:31]

justinh:

and now it's in .... who's submitting improvements?

[23:45:47]

justinh:

infact who, out of users who aren't in the commit pool.. are sending in improvements?

[23:46:13]

skd5aner:

That's one of the systemic issues with open source... someone "claims" something, and wants to control that direction, but then they just sit on it when other's could have been contributing minor (or major) changes along the way

[23:46:33]

justinh:

ego, politics... damn humans!

[23:46:38]

skd5aner:

justinh: not many, but some tickets on trac

[23:46:42]

skd5aner:

with patches

[23:46:54]

justinh:

when those start drying up, oh boy

[23:46:56]

skd5aner:

and Paul has cherry picked some of those in to his branch

[23:47:11]

tgm4883:

skd5aner, I think that is more an issue with any project without a clear leader

[23:47:18]

skd5aner:

and Stuart M has had some of those pulled in to master

[23:47:23]

skd5aner:

tgm4883: AMEN

[23:47:37]

justinh:

you can't run a project by committee

[23:48:16]

tgm4883:

justinh, you can, the project suffers greatly though

[23:48:27]

tgm4883:

so yea, you are correct

[23:48:37]

justinh:

prolly said it before but I was shocked when I learned of er... certain people parting ways

[23:49:21]

skd5aner:

and, back to my comment earlier... the only real leader (and founder) this project ever had... doesn't even run this product in his own life, he runs Windows Media Center – I find that message disturbing in a way

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[23:50:01]

skd5aner:

doesn't exactly instill faith....

[23:50:02]

justinh:

face it guys WE only use mythtv because right now it's the only thing that does what we need it to do

[23:50:27]

skd5aner:

it'd be like if Jesus came back and said he's been studying Buddhism for the past 1000 years

[23:50:30]

justinh:

unless you're one of those "it's the only OSS DVR which actually works" weirdos ;-)

[23:51:20]

justinh:

I do feel some sense of 'loyalty' to the project but it's a hell of a long time since I gave anything of worth back

[23:51:26]

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[23:51:53]

skd5aner:

justinh: yea, I think that's my feeling as well... loyalty, investment, time, pride, etc....

[23:52:30]

justinh:

crap – even if mythtv crashed & lost its recordings once every 6 months it'd still be better than Sky+ because it on;y does it ONCE every 6 months

[23:53:09]

skd5aner:

at some point, I have to wonder if my opinions established from 2003–2007 are still relavent in 2012

[23:53:44]

skd5aner:

heh – yea, I'm pretty confident that my cable DVR option would only bring on exponentially more frustrations... hah

[23:54:25]

justinh:

it'd be.. you know.. very interesting.. if the things which drive developers to other projects were ever taken to user vote.. the kind of direction things would go

[23:54:42]

skd5aner:

no need to dance around it

[23:54:53]

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[23:55:36]

dekarl:

man tmdb needs a merge button, better get me tvbrainz. What's the point of posting data issues if they just sit on a forum?

[23:56:07]

justinh:

skd5aner: the "but what about the users with no opengl?" type questions. As opposed to just saying "bah, **** em"

[23:56:12]

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[23:56:45]

skd5aner:

justinh: didn't seem to hurt xbmc when they made that decision?

[23:56:51]

skd5aner:

there's alreayd precedence out there...

[23:56:59]

justinh:

quite the very opposite

[23:57:15]

skd5aner:

also, that was the whole point of smolt... let the data tell us what people are using and their capabilities

[23:57:16]

justinh:

sure there were some "OH NOES!"

[23:57:16]

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[23:57:56]

justinh:

skd5aner: I don't even think you could go by that

[23:58:04]

skd5aner:

justinh: yea, sorry... it was sort of a retorical question... I was basically saying that xmbc did that and they still have exponential adoption it seems

[23:58:49]

justinh:

I mean try running *buntuX-Y on that ancient 286 without doing some special tricks at boot time. Sheesh

[23:58:56]

skd5aner:

justinh: smolt is just an indicator... it's not the full picture, but it's likely a representitive sampling

[23:59:13]

justinh:

what.. that everybody is mostly using MythCenter-wide? LOL

[23:59:24]

justinh:

that made me sad

[23:59:38]

skd5aner:

true...

MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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