MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (160):

adante, akv, aloril, AndyCap, anykey_, Azelphur, baggy, bbee, Beirdo, benc_, bentech, BLZbubba, brewmaster, brfransen, bsilvereagle, Captain_Murdoch, Cardoe_, cesman, ChanServ, CiaranG, clever, cocoa117, Cougar, d0netsFN, darkstarbyte, Dave123-road, dekarl, desto, devinheitmueller, disputin, dmz, dougl, durnik, eam, emmanuelux, EvilGuru, felipe`, fetzerch, FinnTux, Floppe, G, gergnz, gholmlund, ghoti, gpd, gregL, GreyFoxx, grumpydevil, Guest48558, hadees, Heliwr, Hoochster, Iamnacho, ikevin, infojunky_, IReboot, J-e-f-f-A, jams, jarle, jarryd, jayb, jbrett, jduggan, jll, jm|laptop, johd, joki, jpabq, jpabq_, jst, justdave, justinh, jya, k-man, KaZeR, kc, keith4_, Kevin`, kormoc, KungFuJe1us, kurre2, kwmonroe, lapion, linuxtech, lotia, makoto, MaverickTech, Metoer, MilkBoy, MissionCritical, monkeypet, Moscherkobold, Muzer, MythLogBot, mzb, neufeld_AFK, NightMonkey, niska`, npm, nutron, Oleg_, oobe, Peitolm, Peps, petefunk, pgf, pheld, pigeon, purserj, quicksilver, RagingComputer, rhpot1991, robert5, rsiebert_, scopeuk, Seeker`, seld_, ServerSage, Sharky-AFK, sheppard, sid3windr, simcop2387, skd5aner, sl1ce, SmallR2002, sphery, Spida, squidly, sraue, StevenR, sulx1, sutula, TandyUK, tank-man, Technophil, tgm4883, ThisOneGuy, tmkt, Tobbe5178, toeb, tonsofpcs, toorima, tris, troyt, trumee_, ubIx, Vollstrecker_, wagnerrp, wahrhaft, wizbit, wolfgang1, wylie, xavierh_, XDS2010, xris, zoktar, [mrx], _abbenormal, _charly_, |thunder

Error at /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 120:
htmlentities(): Invalid multibyte sequence in argument


Details:
    datetime:  2012-12-19 00:53:23 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities(): Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120
Tuesday, December 18th, 2012, 00:10 UTC
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[01:03:09] Seeker`: Is ReadReal took > 100ms indicitive of a problem, or more of a "Just so you know..."
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[04:02:00] Unguided: Anyone have an opinion on ubuntu vs pc bsd with mythtv in a jail? Wagnerrp has his setup the second way.
[04:02:32] wagnerrp: i don't use PC BSD
[04:02:56] Unguided: I meant you have mythtv set up in a jail not pc bsd. sorry
[04:03:28] Unguided: Do you bsd on your frontends as well?
[04:03:43] wagnerrp: no, gentoo
[04:04:07] Unguided: May I ask why gentoo. You have big a big help so far.
[04:04:23] wagnerrp: the package system is most like that on freebsd
[04:05:39] Unguided: aah. I will have to look in to that distro then as well. Being new I was looking for the most support
[04:06:44] wagnerrp: use whatever distro you're comfortable with
[04:08:00] Unguided: I have seen several using mint I believe
[04:08:54] Unguided: I still like your idea the best though
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[04:14:41] bill6502: Unguided: I'm not sure how you define "Being new", but take a peek at: http://smolt.mythtv.org/static/stats/stats.html and click on OS and top 30. Just an observation, there is no 'right' answer (disclosure: I started with Mythbuntu.)
[04:15:30] wagnerrp: he's not particularly "new" by most definitions of the term
[04:15:50] Unguided: ok. thanks. New as in second install for use. first was just to see what *nix was about
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[04:17:17] bill6502: Actually, I started with Unix pre System V, Mythbuntu was what I used for MythTV.
[04:19:22] Unguided: yeah. Wagnerrp has his backends on freebsd in a port jail and the uses gentoo on the front. I like the idea of a jail. can always roll back if you screw it up
[04:19:48] wagnerrp: well chroot can do that on any POSIX OS
[04:20:58] Unguided: For some reason I can not grasp the hard drive and file system concepts. Im coming from windows so no drive letters and choice of file systems. Kind of feel like my first computer ever again
[04:21:22] Unguided: I read that somewhere about chroot. I think it was in bsd magazine
[04:21:50] wagnerrp: chroot just does exactly how it sounds, runs an application from a different root path
[04:22:19] wagnerrp: so instead of / being your root, now it is /opt/mythtv or something
[04:22:35] wagnerrp: and you have an entire operating system installed there
[04:22:42] wagnerrp: or at least whatever dependencies mythtv needs to run
[04:24:44] bill6502: What about /dev, /proc and /sys? Are there private 'copies' of them too?
[04:25:51] wagnerrp: with chroot? no
[04:27:01] wagnerrp: with freebsd jails, /dev is selectively filtered, and there is no /proc and /sys
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[04:52:12] Unguided: wagnerrp: what is the difference between mythbuntu and just installing ubuntu then myth?
[04:52:35] wagnerrp: different default package set
[04:53:23] Unguided: Is the configuration steps the same for both methods or does mythbuntu do most of it for you?
[04:53:46] wagnerrp: yes
[04:53:57] Unguided: Thanks
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[05:17:30] Unguided: Off to bed. Thanks for the information.
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[05:27:26] Hollajandro: Running .26, all of the sudden I am getting seg faults when trying to tune live tv and watch recordings. Everything else seems to work fine. Any ideas?
[05:28:41] Hollajandro: seg faults in the back end I should say
[05:32:52] wagnerrp: need a backtrace
[05:33:43] Hollajandro: I didn't realize until just now that .26+fixes was out, updating then we'll see...
[05:35:46] Hollajandro: Working now...great.
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[11:28:46] rajendrau: mythccextractor is exiting if there are no captions extracted for 5 minutes. Is there a way to increase this time out limit.
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[15:38:14] trumee_: i am facing a weird problem after dating from 0.24 and 0.25. I have a couple of PVR-500 connected to my stb via composite. Whenever the stb shows its own OSD then the display on mythtv goes haywire. This wasnt an issue with 0.24
[15:38:50] trumee_: i am using 'slim' in playback and the channels are all SD.
[15:39:47] trumee_: I tried going back to 0.24 by using a backup. But mythbackend failed to run. I think this might be due to timezone upgrade i had to do for going from 0.24 to 0.25.
[15:40:16] trumee_: is there anything i can do to fix this?
[15:43:08] trumee_: ~ping
[15:44:04] sphery: what exactly is "haywire"?
[15:44:36] sphery: and have you "rebooted" the STB recently (power off, then unplug, wait a good 30s, then replug, and power on)
[15:45:23] sphery: I used to get corrupt video from my STB occasionally, and it all came down to the STB needing a cold boot reset
[15:45:38] trumee_: sphery: the display moves up and down. The bottom part of the livetv goes to the top. I have rebooted the stb
[15:46:09] trumee_: sphery: also i directly recorded using cat /dev/video0 and played it. that worked fine.
[15:46:41] sphery: AMD/ATI video card?
[15:46:45] trumee_: sphery: perhaps i should wipe out the myth database and setup from scratch.
[15:46:53] trumee_: sphery: nvidia
[15:47:00] sphery: there's no configuration in MythTV that would do that
[15:47:10] sphery: so scrapping your DB/settings isn't going to help
[15:47:34] sphery: have you ever edited the example Playback Profile groups (i.e. Slim, etc.)?
[15:47:56] sphery: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Playback_profiles# . . . ofile_groups
[15:47:57] trumee_: sphery: i see. The problem is that when stb shows any of its osd like bunch of numbers, i get the screen corruption
[15:48:00] sphery: for how to reset them
[15:48:31] trumee_: sphery: no i didnot modify them. But today i did change the number of cpus in "slim" to 2, just to see if this makes the problem go away.
[15:48:53] trumee_: sphery: is it possible to downgrade that timezone thing in mysql and go back to 0.24?
[15:49:09] sphery: "downgrade that timezone thing"?
[15:49:19] sphery: 0.25 uses local time
[15:49:43] sphery: but, even so, downgrading the MythTV DB schema/data isn't possible--only restoring a backup from before the upgrade
[15:49:58] sphery: 0.26 uses UTC, but ^^^
[15:51:35] trumee_: sphery: i have a backup from 0.24, i did try it. But then i got the error about "upnp backend not found" or something
[15:51:50] trumee_: i did try 0.26 too, but that didnt help
[15:54:18] sphery: that error just means that MythTV couldn't automatically find your backend, so /you/ have to tell it where to find it (i.e. answer the questions it asks you in mythtv-setup/mythfrontend)
[15:54:52] sphery: and the only reason it tried to find your backend automatically is because your config.xml was broken (or your environment was broken, so it couldn't find the config.xml you were supposed to use)
[15:55:36] sphery: remember that after installing any different-versioned MythTV, the first thing you should always do is run mythtv-setup to make sure things work
[15:55:44] sphery: it will actually /help/ you get things working
[15:56:16] trumee_: sphery: oh yes, i did use mythtv-setup. but let me try it again.
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[16:08:25] trumee_: sphery: i went back to 0.24, and dont have that display corruption in 0.24 !
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[16:14:49] trumee_: sphery: how can i patch this against myth 0.24, http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10151 ?
[16:24:46] trumee_: crap the changeset assosciated failed at few hunks in 0.24
[16:25:18] trumee_: that patch was the only reason i wanted to upgrade to 0.26
[16:29:33] trumee_: sphery: i tried 0.6 again, same display corruption in 0.26 too.
[16:41:43] trumee_: sphery: ping
[16:43:57] trumee_: this is the display corruption i was talking about, http://db.tt/nCZ4lN4T
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[17:29:37] sphery: trumee_: no idea what might be causing it, but I'd recommend going through the procedure I linked to reset your playback profile groups
[17:31:53] trumee_: sphery: yup, tried that. didnt help
[17:34:04] sphery: and what video card?
[17:34:13] sphery: and you /are/ using the nvidia proprietary drivers, right?
[17:34:45] trumee_: sphery: yes
[17:35:30] trumee_: trumee_: 0.24 is working fine here. But the upgrade to 0.25 or 0.26 crops up this issue.
[17:37:29] sphery: and what video card?
[17:37:42] sphery: if it's vdpau compatible, try a vdpau playback profile
[17:38:56] trumee_: sphery: GeForce 8300
[17:39:16] trumee_: its on the motherboard itself
[17:39:59] sphery: and maybe try mythffmpeg to see if it plays with that
[17:40:16] sphery: ffmpeg resync is the most likely culprit if you have a problem with slim playback
[17:40:59] trumee_: sphery: if you play that mp4, you would notice that corruption goes away as soon as the stb osd clears (right at the end)
[17:41:17] sphery: right
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[17:41:50] sphery: but still, we don't do anything that would cause that
[17:41:54] sphery: so there's a problem in something
[17:42:11] trumee_: sphery: how can i build with mythffmpeg? i am building 0.26 myself and dont use any external libraries
[17:42:17] sphery: and since I have no information, I'm only able to guess where it might be
[17:42:30] sphery: and since ffmpeg is the main part of playback, and it's upgraded between releases, ...
[17:42:47] sphery: but testing with vdpau would tell you if it's ffmpeg
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[17:43:05] sphery: and testing with mythffmpeg would tell you if it's ffmpeg
[17:43:13] sphery: (actually, testing with vdpau would tell you if it's not ffmpeg)
[17:43:25] sphery: meaning you need to do some testing to narrow it down
[17:43:25] trumee_: i simply use this to build, ./configure --prefix=/opt/mythtv-0.26 --enable-vdpau
[17:43:34] sphery: but you're getting a frame stuck in the buffers
[17:43:43] sphery: and it's popping in between other frames
[17:43:54] sphery: and you can also try changing your ui painter
[17:43:57] sphery: and many other things
[17:44:09] sphery: but I'm thinking it's a combination of your video card/driver and how mythtv is using it
[17:44:21] sphery: and even upgrading/downgrading nvidia drivers may help
[17:44:38] sphery: I meant mythffplay
[17:44:40] sphery: test with that
[17:45:15] trumee_: sphery: ok, let me setup 0.25 again and i will try now with vdpau
[17:46:21] wagnerrp: mythffmpeg and mythffplay should be build by default
[17:50:59] trumee_: sphery: ok i tried both vdpau and UI:opengl, same corruption in both
[17:51:31] trumee_: previously UI was set to Qt.
[17:57:04] sphery: in current mythtv, you want it set to auto
[17:57:10] sphery: (for ui)
[17:57:19] wagnerrp: sphery: http://www.mythtvtalk.com/network-internet-wo . . . 6/#post61130
[17:57:46] sphery: what?
[17:58:06] sphery: someone is selling it on ebay?
[17:58:09] wagnerrp: i'm not quite sure... it has me confused too
[17:58:50] sphery: and how could it be easier than downloading?
[17:59:18] sphery: when downloading a packaged version should be (by far) the easiest--much easier than getting source on a cd
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[18:04:57] wagnerrp: seems he's tethering to an iphone, so maybe something with wireless data plans?
[18:05:36] sphery: oh
[18:09:10] wagnerrp: mythtv-brand power supplies... http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-480W-Micro-ATX-Po . . . em4aae44e59e
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[18:23:15] dekarl: wagnerrp: what share do we get from MythTV branding?
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[18:23:49] wagnerrp: 0.0000162 percent, rounded down to the nearest whole dollar
[18:23:58] dekarl: Otherwise remind them nicely that the name is not up for SEO grabs.
[18:24:50] dekarl: But I see lots of amazon SEO, too. SDHC cards with the top selling digital cameras in the "title"
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[18:25:44] dekarl: But you can always report them to Paypal to have their accounts seized :)
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[18:59:57] keylimesoda: Anybody have experience using the XBMC-PVR as a front-end?
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[19:11:42] keylimesoda: Kind of a quiet conversation?
[19:12:06] wagnerrp: people are just choosing to be silent rather than responding "no"
[19:12:35] keylimesoda: Is anyone running a client/server setup for MythTV?
[19:12:48] wagnerrp: everyone runs a client/server setup for MythTV
[19:13:30] keylimesoda: I was under the impression most folks ran client/server on the same box--is that correct? Or are most folks using one main server with multiple front-ends?
[19:13:43] wagnerrp: most are probably using one box, yes
[19:14:07] wagnerrp: but with the frontend/backend split, MythTV is always configured in a client/server manner
[19:14:25] keylimesoda: Got it--that makes sense. Good clean design decision.
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[19:15:43] keylimesoda: I'm looking to build a single server, multiple client PVR system using InfiniTV cablecard 4xtuner.
[19:16:13] keylimesoda: So I've got questions around cablecard/infinitv support and front-end client hardware/software.
[19:16:22] wagnerrp: shoot
[19:16:57] keylimesoda: So--is the InfiniTV tuner commonly used in MythTV? Is it well supported/stable?
[19:17:22] wagnerrp: it should be fully supported in 0.26
[19:17:27] wagnerrp: although i'm not sure how common it is
[19:17:38] keylimesoda: Awesome. Anyone here have experience using it? (probably silence...)
[19:17:50] wagnerrp: note that mythtv is not licensed to use cablecard tuners, so we can only access "copy freely" or drm-free channels
[19:18:01] wagnerrp: on comcast, that should be most of your lineup
[19:18:13] keylimesoda: Yep--I'm fortunate to be on Comcast today.
[19:18:17] wagnerrp: excluding premiums like hbo or showtime, or on-demand channels
[19:18:29] keylimesoda: Yeah, never really paid for the premiums or on-demand much anyways.
[19:18:33] wagnerrp: your signon said as much... "* keylimesoda (~keylimeso@c-24-17-190-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ) has joined #mythtv-users"
[19:19:00] keylimesoda: Ha--good catch. I'm actually a DirecTV user today. I'm switching to Comcast for TV in a month or so in order to save a bunch of money.
[19:19:27] keylimesoda: DirecTV has spoiled us with their "whole-home DVR" setup, which is what I'm now trying to duplicate by myself.
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[19:20:48] keylimesoda: Can you speak to stability of MythTV? How often do you have reboots, crashes, updates, or other "issues" that get in the way of seamless use?
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[19:21:48] wagnerrp: my backend hasn't crashed in years, and it's been a long time since any of my frontends have had any trouble with recorded content
[19:22:00] wagnerrp: there are some issues with other content, like ripped DVD ISOs
[19:22:15] keylimesoda: Wow. Do you have to do any maintenance on your backend? What issues happen with ripped ISOs?
[19:22:16] wagnerrp: there are also issues with livetv
[19:22:36] keylimesoda: Ah--liveTV is a key scenario. Can you speak to issues you've run into there?
[19:22:49] wagnerrp: personally? none, i don't use it
[19:23:15] keylimesoda: So, what's MythTV's reputation with LiveTV? What are the common/known issues?
[19:23:21] wagnerrp: but livetv has always been a bit of the "red headed stepchild", since few of the devs use it
[19:23:31] wagnerrp: it's mainly issues with dealing with invalid digital channels
[19:23:44] wagnerrp: or difficulty restarting playback after switching channels
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[19:24:10] wagnerrp: note that nothing mythtv does is "live", livetv mode is just a recording being carried out on a several second delay
[19:25:01] keylimesoda: Sure, but LiveTV involves things like frequent channel changes and live pause-rewind as well.
[19:25:31] wagnerrp: right, pause and rewind works fine. frequent channel changes, don't seem to do so well
[19:25:48] keylimesoda: Interesting--that's good to know.
[19:26:02] wagnerrp: there's a whole mess of code glue needed to allow user control over the recording process
[19:26:13] keylimesoda: ??
[19:26:20] wagnerrp: and as things are changed and improved elsewhere, that glue seems to suffer from time to time
[19:26:34] keylimesoda: You mean setting up recordings?
[19:26:47] keylimesoda: Like being the EPG and saying "record this"?
[19:27:09] wagnerrp: i mean livetv and recordings all internally use the same mechanism. to mythtv, they are all recordings
[19:27:42] wagnerrp: the code to allow user control over things like channel changing, to give the appearance of livetv and the ability to surf, sometimes suffers due to changes to the underlying recording mechanism
[19:28:37] keylimesoda: Ah--that makes sense. LiveTV is really just a complex facade/mechanism of interacting with recordings.
[19:29:13] sphery: keylimesoda: directv may have had their whole-home dvr, but Comcast offers an AnyRoom DVR ( http://www.comcast.com/anyroomdvr/?SCRedirect=true )
[19:30:01] keylimesoda: Have you used the AnyRoom? I was hoping to finally get around to rolling my own system (flexibilty, cheaper, fun). But I do have major concerns about messing with my wife's TV.
[19:30:03] sphery: then again, maybe you meant that you're saving a lot of money by getting rid of the rental cable-co DVR solution (versus just saving money because Comcast is cheaper for you than DirecTV)
[19:30:14] sphery: I haven't, but was just saying it's there
[19:30:52] keylimesoda: Comcast is cheaper than DirecTV, I'm also looking to reduce monthly costs for cable boxes/DVRs. My hope is that I can build something better on my own :)
[19:31:02] sphery: MythTV is great, but it's definitely swimming upstream (because you're using equipment and trying to create a service the cable company doesn't support--nor want you to have without their getting money for it)
[19:31:54] keylimesoda: I've heard the comcast guys have some solid support for WMC--I'm sure they don't have as much experience with MythTV.
[19:32:17] sphery: so just make sure you go into it with foreknowledge that it will likely be a lot of time/effort (and likely money) and you may have to settle for some disadvantages (i.e. if Comcast ever decides to put more channels on copy-once or whatever--i.e. you're completely at their mercy)
[19:32:22] wagnerrp: they have solid support for cablecard, since they are required by law to use it in their own set top boxes
[19:32:43] wagnerrp: WMC has just spent several million dollars buying into the cablecard system to get licensed
[19:32:49] keylimesoda: So, do folks primarily use MythTV as a way to watch pre-recorded shows, rather than LiveTV? Do you just fill in the gaps with SickBeard, or Hulu, etc?
[19:33:09] wagnerrp: as for sickbeard, please read the channel topic
[19:33:50] keylimesoda: :) Just curious about mainline MythTV usage scenarios.
[19:34:25] keylimesoda: If I know how most people are using MythTV today, it helps me make a better decision about if I should use it for my scenario.
[19:37:42] keylimesoda: +sphery--what money sinks do you think I may run into? I'm already in for a server and budgeted for a couple of client boxes (~$150 each).
[19:39:09] sphery: that, plus hard drives, plus capture devices
[19:39:31] keylimesoda: Yep, I've already got the Ceton InfiniTV and 4x1TB drives sitting around.
[19:41:15] sphery: basically, you're paying for everything with MythTV (including the tech required to work with the cable co's tech--i.e. infinitv or HDHR Prime for cablecard, then when they decide to copy-once everything, you throw those away and buy 4x HD-PVRs and 4 cable-co STBs to maintain the same type of setup and ...)
[19:41:35] sphery: versus with a cable-co DVR, if it stops working, you call them and they replace it
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[19:42:15] sphery: and assuming $10/mo additional on your cable bill, that's $120/yr--which is tiny compared to buying into MythTV
[19:42:42] sphery: and then there's replacing things that break or over time (i.e. new computer, new capture devices, ...)
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[19:43:11] sphery: basically, just trying to remind you that though MythTV (software) is Free (as in freedom), the MythTV hobby can be very expensive
[19:43:20] keylimesoda: It's like $10 for a cable box, $15 for the DVR, $5 for whole home service. They nickel and dime you. I break even over a couple years, assuming my hardware is relatively stable.
[19:43:51] keylimesoda: I appreciate the reminder though. It's important that I at least break even on the hobby, and I can't cause any disruption for my wife and kids' TV, or I'm toast.
[19:44:26] sphery: IME, dreams of breaking even are only met through rationalization of expenses
[19:45:04] keylimesoda: Perhaps I can start a blog chronicalling my experience and then write the whole thing off as business costs :)
[19:45:07] sphery: because you just keep putting money in to the system one way or the other
[19:45:38] sphery: IMHO, if you want a good DVR for cheap, a cable or sat co DVR is the best option
[19:46:01] keylimesoda: So the main benefit of Myth is just the fun/flexibility?
[19:46:08] sphery: if you want a hobby--something to keep you busy--and/or control over your DVR and don't mind paying for the privilege, MythTV is the way to go
[19:46:35] sphery: if want a DVR that gives you some extra capabilities, but you don't want to spend too much time on it, WMC may be a good approach
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[19:47:28] keylimesoda: I should be lauding WMC (I work for Microsoft). But my primary concern is laggy UI on extenders and lack of flexibility in recording/playback formats.
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[19:48:02] wagnerrp: yeah, i never did understand why microsoft never let you use other WMC PCs as extenders
[19:48:23] wagnerrp: it seems just such an obvious feature
[19:49:00] keylimesoda: There's some work being done to make that happen (by 3rd parties). The extenders are just running over an RDP protocol with a little extra sugar.
[19:49:20] keylimesoda: That's in part why they're so laggy.
[19:49:29] wagnerrp: the UI is remotely rendered?
[19:49:32] wagnerrp: funky...
[19:49:57] FabriceMG: wagnerrp, in python bindings 0.26, did you have one fonction for download/transfer record?
[19:50:46] wagnerrp: ftopen() opens a file through the backend protocol with file-like access methods
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[19:51:08] wagnerrp: just the standard read(), write(), seek(), tell(), ...
[19:51:16] keylimesoda: It's kinda remotely rendered, yeah. That's why the recommend 1–2GB of RAM for each extender. I guess it was a design decision to allow flexibility and to keep the clients small and low-powered. Not a decision you'd make today givent the abundant power of small local clients.
[19:51:19] FabriceMG: thx
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[19:53:13] sphery: fwiw, we have a lot of users who try to use inappropriate devices as "frontends" using UPnP and suffer from similar problems
[19:53:53] sphery: like no commercial skip, sometimes problems ffwd/rew, lack of flexibility, UI issues, ...
[19:54:34] sphery: seems there's a number of people who would prefer to have a garbage device/experience rather than use an appopriate system
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[19:54:54] keylimesoda: So, what's an appropriate device for a good client/front-end experience?
[19:55:19] wagnerrp: a decent, mainstream PC
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[19:55:29] sphery: (often because, "another computer is too expensive", "mine is lower-power--and think how much that will save me" (of course, without doing the math), "I already have a BluRay player with UPnP support connected to the TV, so...")
[19:55:33] sphery: right
[19:55:52] keylimesoda: So these dinky little Fusion APUs or ATOM boxes are not going to cut it.
[19:55:57] wagnerrp: so no Atoms, no ARMs, no Fusions, but anything else you can currently buy should be fine
[19:55:59] sphery: so a Core 2 Duo or better is ideal
[19:56:24] wagnerrp: the problem with Fusion and Atom is that the CPUs aren't enough to handle video decoding, you need hardware decoding
[19:56:38] wagnerrp: with IONs (Atom + nVidia), that generally works well
[19:56:49] sphery: and, fwiw, I spend $150 or less on my systems and get good systems with real CPUs and plenty of RAM and nvidia video cards that can use the nvidia proprietary drivers)
[19:56:54] wagnerrp: but if the nVidia hardware can't handle decoding, you have nothing to fall back on
[19:57:16] keylimesoda: That's good to know. Does MythTV support the Broadcom decoder cards?
[19:57:21] wagnerrp: with Fusions, the AMD/ATI hardware decoding never worked well in linux to begin with
[19:57:26] wagnerrp: the crystalhd stuff? yes
[19:57:29] sphery: not to mention the fact that it's often useful to have a computer that can actually compute
[19:57:35] keylimesoda: AMD/ATI never has seemed to get their *nix story figured out.
[19:57:39] sphery: i.e. the UI in Atom-based systems is slow
[19:57:57] sphery: because the cpu is severely hobbled
[19:58:08] wagnerrp: my latest frontend is just a mini-itx H67 board and ivy bridge pentium
[19:58:13] sphery: I'm a huge fan of AMD/ATI
[19:58:15] wagnerrp: software decoding and intel graphics
[19:58:23] sphery: but I would never use an AMD video card in a MythTV box
[19:58:43] sphery: specifically because it's the wrong tool for the job
[19:58:46] keylimesoda: My current gaming/HTPC is using AMD--I've been using them for 3+ generations for that scenario.
[19:58:55] sphery: right now, nvidia video card is the way to go--ideally one with vdpau support
[19:58:56] wagnerrp: no disk, i'm booting an iscsi image served up by my backend
[19:59:13] sphery: AMD video cards are great--on Windows
[19:59:19] keylimesoda: Exactly.
[19:59:30] keylimesoda: What are you using to serve up iscsi? Freenas?
[19:59:52] sphery: AMD video cards are great 2D frame buffers on GNU/Linux
[19:59:53] wagnerrp: close, freebsd 9, zfs backing store
[20:00:01] sphery: (i.e. AMD is fine if you're not doing video or 3D :)
[20:00:02] keylimesoda: I did have some killer AMD cards when I built my bitmining rig, but then we're really getting off topic :)
[20:00:05] wagnerrp: freenas is based off freebsd 8
[20:00:17] sphery: I actually have AMD video in every single one of my systems, except my MythTV frontend systems
[20:00:48] sphery: yeah, and it seems that the amd proprietary drivers aren't bad for OpenCL
[20:01:09] keylimesoda: Interesting. I'm moving from an HP microserver (love that littls DIY NAS box) to a retired Proliant that will do double-duty as my NAS/PVR backend.
[20:01:43] keylimesoda: That means I'll have 6 SATA slots on-box, with a dedicated server-class RAID card. It comes tomorrow--I'm slightly excited.
[20:01:59] keylimesoda: But back to front-ends...
[20:02:26] keylimesoda: $150 seems a really low price for a good Core2Duo system. Do you just run them all diskless?
[20:02:48] sphery: I just buy at the right time--with good rebates, etc
[20:02:52] keylimesoda: Gotcha.
[20:03:07] sphery: (and, technically, I get AMD CPUs because I don't feel like paying Intel's markup)
[20:03:19] keylimesoda: I always tend to overspend on the power supply since that's always been my first point of failure in all my systems.
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[20:03:44] sphery: yeah, I always get 80 PLUS PSUs
[20:04:01] sphery: and I actually tailor the parts to the job
[20:04:12] sphery: so I don't buy the biggest/fastest CPU
[20:04:13] keylimesoda: Ah--I could see that in AMDs. I haven't done AMD CPU builds in a while--the power/performance profile is always a bit off.
[20:04:36] sphery: I get one with appropriate speed (~3GHz, dual-core--no need for tri or quad or ...)
[20:04:40] keylimesoda: Certainly an i3 would be overkill for a FE-only box.
[20:04:58] sphery: and get appropriate memory (2GB+, been buy 4GB lately, because it's basically the same cost as 2GB)
[20:05:06] keylimesoda: Yeah, I should look at inexpensive AMD dual-cores--thanks for the pointer.
[20:05:15] sphery: and, yeah, I buy based on power usage, too
[20:05:30] sphery: so a good Core i3 with low TDP would be grat
[20:05:34] sphery: great, even
[20:05:41] keylimesoda: grat > great.
[20:05:52] sphery: hehe, that works, then :)
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[20:08:28] wagnerrp: keylimesoda: to be honest, i've run a server-class RAID card (12-port Areca) for six years now, and while i don't regret the decision then, i wouldn't do it now
[20:08:35] keylimesoda: I think I still need to do some research on using XBMC PVR as a MythTV front-end as well. I know their PVR stuff is in heavy development right now. It'd be interesting to see how immature it is compared to the Myth Frontend.
[20:09:04] keylimesoda: You wouldn't spend the money, or you wouldn't use it even if you had it?
[20:09:24] wagnerrp: with things like ZFS and BtrFS, they work better if you give then direct access to the individual drives, and let them handle redundancy
[20:10:13] keylimesoda: I don't have much experience with ZFS yet. I've spent the last few years on a WHS after some hiccups using FreeNAS (though I run my own pfsense router to keep me in BSD).
[20:11:17] wagnerrp: with things like checksumming, if ZFS operates on a hardware array, it can detect and warn you of bitrot, but if it runs the array, it can transparently correct for it
[20:12:25] wagnerrp: you can give it a big chunk of flash or battery-backed RAM disk to serve the same purpose as the local cache on hardware RAID
[20:12:29] keylimesoda: That'd be nice for my photo/document archives.
[20:12:54] wagnerrp: meaning zero latency writes, and no loss from a power failure
[20:14:06] keylimesoda: Huh. I wonder if I shouldn't just run freeBSD on a VM to use ZFS for disk management, even if I do go with WMC as my tuner/server.
[20:14:07] wagnerrp: the stripe is variably sized per file, so files always end on a stripe boundary, and you don't have the read/calculate/write issue you traditionally have with RAID5/6
[20:14:32] ** wagnerrp is not a fan of VMs **
[20:14:55] keylimesoda: lol. Fair enough.
[20:15:32] keylimesoda: ZFS support mature on freebsd 9 then?
[20:16:43] wagnerrp: pretty much
[20:16:46] keylimesoda: Out of curiosity--are you running Myth on FreeBSD as well?
[20:17:06] wagnerrp: actually, i don't have a problem so much running VMs to allow windows on a freebsd server, or freebsd on a linux server
[20:17:08] keylimesoda: I had thought if I went Myth, I'd prefer to run it on BSD, as opposed to Ubuntu.
[20:17:20] wagnerrp: other than the fact that it would be ideal to choose all software that ran on one OS
[20:17:47] wagnerrp: i just hate seeing people run a bunch of linux on top of a linux host or hypervisor
[20:18:41] wagnerrp: and yes, i am running my backend on freebsd
[20:18:54] wagnerrp: the backend runs fine, you just have the problem of lack of tuner drivers
[20:19:13] wagnerrp: but i'm using a HDHomeRun which connects over the network, bypassing that issue
[20:19:37] keylimesoda: I've read the Ceton can be setup as network tuners as well.
[20:20:01] wagnerrp: the ceton IS a network tuner
[20:20:05] keylimesoda: I know they have linux drivers--I don't know what it would be like to get those to compile on FreeBSD (yeah for posix?)
[20:20:22] wagnerrp: it's a little embedded computer on a card, with an internal network
[20:20:32] wagnerrp: the card itself just appears as a network card to the system
[20:20:44] keylimesoda: Gotcha. So it doesn't really need drivers to work on BSD either?
[20:20:56] wagnerrp: i don't know if there are network drivers available to use it on freebsd
[20:21:18] wagnerrp: the DCR-2650 operates in the same manner, but it is using some generic USB network interface
[20:21:36] wagnerrp: so it is fairly universally compatible
[20:22:10] keylimesoda: Interesting that Ceton didn't make a similar choice for the InfiniTV. I guess they're reasonably on-board with the windows ecosystem.
[20:22:31] wagnerrp: similar choice how?
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[20:23:49] keylimesoda: Well, it seems like if Ceton was deciding to expose their tuner as a network card, they could've chosen to implement a driver model for a generic network card, rather than one requiring specific drivers.
[20:24:16] keylimesoda: Although I'll admit I may be a bit out of my depth when it comes to how drivers are developed.
[20:24:28] wagnerrp: well with USB, there is such a generic profile built into the standard
[20:24:33] wagnerrp: with PCIe, not so much
[20:26:49] keylimesoda: I wonder if the external Ceton tuner works similarly.
[20:27:41] wagnerrp: don't know anyone who has one, but i wouldn't be surprised
[20:28:35] wagnerrp: one complication with cablecard tuners, they can't natively do switched video, although i'm not aware of any comcast franchise doing such at the moment
[20:29:18] wagnerrp: the HDHomeRun Prime has a USB host port that you can plug a tuning adapter into to handle it
[20:29:36] keylimesoda: Ceton promotes support for SDV tuning adapters.
[20:29:48] wagnerrp: the Ceton linux drivers have some internal means of using tuning adapters plugged into the PC
[20:30:05] wagnerrp: for the DCR-2650... not sure if there is any way to use it at current
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[20:30:59] keylimesoda: Eh, makes sense.
[20:31:16] keylimesoda: SDV is a fairly new idea with little uptake--isn't the DCR-2650 a bit older?
[20:31:33] wagnerrp: the DCR-2650 is a rebranded HDHomeRun Prime
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[20:32:13] keylimesoda: Ah--TIL.
[20:32:37] wagnerrp: if you open both up, their innards are identical
[20:32:58] wagnerrp: but the -2650 has one less tuner, and has the ethernet and host USB port swapped for a device port
[20:34:04] keylimesoda: Thanks for the conversation wagnerrp and sphery!
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[21:52:29] wizbit: is this a good release:
[21:52:29] wizbit: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Notes/3.0
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[22:27:20] tonsofpcs: any suggestions for an RF (not IR) remote for PC control?
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[22:42:11] makoto: greetings all. i discovered to my horror that the old pc in the corner does not like my G210, so i've had to put in a radeon hd3450 in my mythbox instead. can I decode 1080p using the hd3450, or should i scrap the motherboard and go for one that doesn't die when i feed it a G210?
[22:48:02] tonsofpcs: di in what way?
[22:48:04] tonsofpcs: *die
[22:48:08] tonsofpcs: power supply undersized maybe?
[22:48:27] makoto: ah that could be it actually
[22:48:48] makoto: well, i'd be suprised if it couldn't run a G210, but on the other hand it's a chinese OEM pile of rubbish so maybe
[22:49:07] makoto: the machine's also an old pentium 4, and from what i'm aware they're quite hungry so maybe
[22:49:28] makoto: undersized psu didn't cross my mind at any point, thanks
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