| Wednesday, December 12th, 2012, 00:00 UTC | ||
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| [01:43:21] | skd5aner: | DOH! Schedules direct includes the entire new lineup, but it also includes the entire old lineup as well with duplicate channel numbers :/ |
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| [01:55:34] | tonsofpcs: | oops |
| [01:55:49] | tonsofpcs: | you know you can change the sd feed content, right? |
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| [02:20:39] | skd5aner: | yes, but silly none the less |
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| [03:00:12] | skd5aner: | 4 hours later, I have channels again :P |
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| [03:00:44] | skd5aner: | silly me to think it'd be done before primetime |
| [03:01:01] | skd5aner: | now, only 45+ minutes until mfdb is complete and the scheduler can schedule again |
| [03:16:37] | cnz: | anyone know why ubuntu 12.04 does not like service mythtv-backend stop/start |
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| [03:38:31] | cnz: | this channel is about as useful and helpful as our damn us government |
| [03:39:15] | [R]: | cnz: well when you say nonsensical thinsg like "it doesnt like"... what do you expect? |
| [03:39:33] | cnz: | as in it doesn't work |
| [03:39:44] | cnz: | i guess I will be more specific |
| [03:39:51] | [R]: | "it doesnt work" says nothing |
| [03:39:58] | cnz: | yeah actually it does |
| [03:40:02] | cnz: | means the command does not work |
| [03:40:27] | cnz: | [sudo] password for htpc: |
| [03:40:27] | cnz: | stop: Unknown instance: |
| [03:40:27] | cnz: | htpc@HTPC:~$ |
| [03:40:48] | cnz: | htpc@HTPC:~$ sudo service mythtv-backend start |
| [03:40:49] | cnz: | mythtv-backend start/running, process 17128 |
| [03:40:49] | cnz: | htpc@HTPC:~$ |
| [03:40:49] | [R]: | wow |
| [03:40:54] | [R]: | don't flood |
| [03:41:11] | [R]: | cnz: what happens if you start it manually? |
| [03:41:12] | WR47HANZ: | lol |
| [03:41:24] | cnz: | it will load if you do mythbackend |
| [03:41:32] | cnz: | or mythbackend & |
| [03:41:37] | [R]: | sounds like a dist problem |
| [03:41:38] | [R]: | not a mythtv problem |
| [03:41:42] | cnz: | yeah |
| [03:41:43] | cnz: | it is |
| [03:41:54] | [R]: | this is #mythtv-users, not #randomdiststhatsuck |
| [03:41:56] | cnz: | that's why I was asking if anyone knew why |
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| [03:42:32] | cnz: | was seeing if anyone else has came across that problem |
| [03:43:02] | WR47HANZ: | bleh I thought this was #selfimportantdbagsthatcondescendtopeopleaskingforhelp |
| [03:48:44] | bill6502: | cnz: sudo start mythtv-backend because it's an Upstart job defined in /etc/init, as opposed to a System V init script defined in /etc/init.d. But there is probably a script in /etc/init.d that invokes the Upstart method. |
| [03:49:34] | cnz: | bill6502, thanks |
| [03:49:46] | bill6502: | np |
| [03:52:16] | cnz: | bill6502, sudo start mythtv-backend didn't work either |
| [03:52:27] | cnz: | it claims it loaded and spit out a pid but it really didn't |
| [03:55:10] | bill6502: | cnz: In one terminal window type: tailf /var/log/syslog and in another sudo start mythtv-backend. It sounds like the backend is trying to start then failing. |
| [03:56:18] | cnz: | bill6502, k downloading tv icons as soon as that is finish I will do that |
| [03:56:36] | tgm4883: | Using mythtv services in 0.26, should the 'getrecorded' of the DVR service really return a full URL for the artwork coverart filename? eg. myth://Coverart@192.168.0.10:6543/30 Rock Season 7_coverart.jpg |
| [03:58:42] | tgm4883: | cnz, 'sudo service mythtv-backend start' should work |
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| [04:00:44] | tgm4883: | [R], I wasn't aware that Ubuntu was a "randomdistthatsuck's" |
| [04:01:37] | cnz: | bill6502 http://pastebin.com/Gi7QqfZi |
| [04:02:16] | tgm4883: | cnz, that would appear to be a database error |
| [04:02:17] | [R]: | tgm4883: lol |
| [04:02:27] | cnz: | tgm4883, yeah im seeing that |
| [04:02:36] | cnz: | but that doesn't make sense because it does connect |
| [04:02:49] | wagnerrp: | it does connect, but the login credentials are incorrect |
| [04:02:50] | tgm4883: | cnz, 0.25 or 0.26? |
| [04:02:53] | cnz: | it just got done downloading channels and building a database with mythfilldatabase |
| [04:02:57] | cnz: | 0.26 |
| [04:03:08] | cnz: | on 12.04 |
| [04:03:25] | tonsofpcs: | I *really* need to analyze the TS from the local station that I had mentioned was having problems about a week ago that we chalked up to underpowered hardware... the hardware MPEG2 decoder is having issues with a recording I made today, very similar to the issues I was seeing on the other platforms. |
| [04:03:34] | tgm4883: | cnz, most likely, you have incorrect settings in /etc/mythtv/config.xml |
| [04:04:06] | wagnerrp: | tgm4883: you're setting the MYTHCONFDIR in your init script? |
| [04:04:18] | cnz: | tgm4883 I think that was it |
| [04:04:24] | cnz: | it had some random password in there |
| [04:04:30] | cnz: | it didn't setup the default ones |
| [04:05:13] | cnz: | after I change it in the config.xml is there something else that has to be updated? |
| [04:05:15] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, I don't think so |
| [04:05:51] | wagnerrp: | if it's using the $PATH, it should be reading from '.mythtv/config.xml' |
| [04:06:01] | wagnerrp: | the '.mythtv' is ommitted with MYTHCONFDIR |
| [04:06:10] | wagnerrp: | unless you're symlinking that to the user's directory |
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| [04:06:49] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, I thought the backend checks /etc/mythtv/ first? |
| [04:07:13] | wagnerrp: | there were a whole bunch of paths that were checked with the old mysql.txt |
| [04:07:36] | wagnerrp: | as i understand it, it's just $MYTHCONFDIR/config.xml and $PATH/.mythtv/config.xml now |
| [04:07:47] | cnz: | .mythtv/config.xml and /etc/mythtv/config.xml have the same username and password |
| [04:08:21] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, is there a default MYTHCONFDIR (or a way to search our tree on github)? |
| [04:08:22] | ** wagnerrp goes digging into the source ** | |
| [04:09:08] | cnz: | tgm4883, what's funny is that mythbackend works |
| [04:09:25] | tgm4883: | cnz, isn't it suppose to work :P |
| [04:09:36] | cnz: | yes |
| [04:09:58] | cnz: | but what I mean loading it by typing mythbackend will start it and it will connect to the db |
| [04:10:28] | cnz: | so why won't it connect to the db with services mythtv-backend start |
| [04:10:47] | tgm4883: | because you are starting it with a different user? |
| [04:10:50] | bill6502: | cnz, type diff ~/.mythtv/config.xml ~mythtv/.mythtv/config.xml |
| [04:12:35] | cnz: | http://pastebin.com/kc2qYscg |
| [04:12:53] | wagnerrp: | tgm4883: http://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/mytht . . . dirs.cpp#n56 |
| [04:13:25] | wagnerrp: | just $MYTHCONFDIR/config.xml and $HOME/.mythtv/config.xml |
| [04:13:58] | wagnerrp: | in that preferred order |
| [04:14:14] | cnz: | lks |
| [04:14:51] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, I know we symlink it in some instances |
| [04:14:55] | tgm4883: | I'd have to check it |
| [04:14:58] | bill6502: | cnz: so your user uses password: mythtv, the mythtv user uses AxyKC53Y? |
| [04:15:18] | tgm4883: | I don't see anything for MYTHCONFDIR in our stuff |
| [04:15:33] | cnz: | bill6502, in the mythtv.setup |
| [04:15:40] | cnz: | it's set to mythtv for password |
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| [04:19:31] | bill6502: | cnz: Also, the mythtv user's config.xml is using the pre 0.26 format (with lines like: DBHostName.) In /etc/init/mythtv-backend.conf you probably have have the --user mythtv argument which will cause that script to use ~mythtv/.mythtv/config.xml. The files should be the same. The are on my boxen. |
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| [04:21:37] | cnz: | bill6502, I think I fixed the db issue |
| [04:21:51] | cnz: | changed the password in the /home/mythtv/.mythtv/config.xml |
| [04:22:05] | cnz: | then rand the start command and it seems to have started |
| [04:22:32] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, so because of ^^, that makes me think we don't set MYTHCONFDIR at all, and just symlink it in places |
| [04:22:46] | tgm4883: | and possibly not in ~mythtv/.mythtv/config.xml |
| [04:25:17] | cnz: | bill6502 yeah got it working |
| [04:25:28] | cnz: | thanks bill6502 tgm4883 and wagnerrp for the help |
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| [04:28:26] | bill6502: | cnz: I reeeeally think you should make the two files the same. Either two files with the same contents or with symlinks. You've got cruft in the mythtv users file. Good luck. |
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| [04:29:30] | cnz: | bill6502, agreed |
| [04:29:37] | cnz: | this only happens in 12.04 though |
| [04:29:48] | cnz: | 12.10 had no issues with the service start |
| [04:30:52] | tgm4883: | cnz, 12.04 only had issues because you're config.xml file had the wrong info |
| [04:31:07] | cnz: | tgm4883, yeah |
| [04:31:08] | tgm4883: | your 12.10 install didn't have that issue |
| [04:31:16] | cnz: | right |
| [04:31:49] | tgm4883: | I'm assuming your 12.10 install was a fresh install? |
| [04:32:37] | bill6502: | tgm4883: Agreed, no need to set MYTHCONFDIR, the user's HOME will get to the correct .mythtv. I use MYTHCONFDIR in my FE startup script to switch to a separate .mythtv-test for my test backend. |
| [04:33:48] | tgm4883: | bill6502, not necessarily, ideally we'd want to use /etc/mythtv/config.xml so we don't have these issues where the two files differ |
| [04:34:21] | bill6502: | understood |
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| [10:52:41] | k-man: | are we already into pre-releases for .27? |
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| [15:13:30] | ** wagnerrp wonders how many times we're going to have to tell Josu Lazkano... no softcams, no pirated content ** | |
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| [16:42:25] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, from our discussion last night, Do you know if the frontend looks at $MYTHCONFDIR or /etc/mythtv/ at all? We're throwing around the idea of getting rid of /etc/mythtv completely |
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| [16:55:45] | wagnerrp: | the frontend looks at $MYTHCONFDIR, yes |
| [16:56:05] | wagnerrp: | but there is nothing specially defined for /etc |
| [16:56:57] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, awesome, because we don't set that |
| [16:57:03] | tgm4883: | so we can probably get rid of /etc/mythtv |
| [16:57:48] | wagnerrp: | depends... as far as configuration for a system daemon is concerned, /etc/mythtv makes more sense to me |
| [16:57:54] | wagnerrp: | at least for mythbackend |
| [16:58:12] | wagnerrp: | the trouble is that along with config.xml, you get all sorts of other temporary files |
| [16:58:18] | wagnerrp: | which don't belong in /etc |
| [16:59:12] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, currently all that happend in /home/mythtv/ |
| [16:59:24] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, although we'd like to move that as well to /var/lib/mythtv |
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| [17:04:16] | skd5aner: | anyone know why some of my hd-pvr recordings would be 16x9 (HD channel), but be shrunken and have black letterboxing on both the sides and top |
| [17:04:28] | skd5aner: | I'v enoticed this happens every so often... |
| [17:04:35] | Mission-Critical (Mission-Critical!~MissionCr@unaffiliated/missioncritical) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | |
| [17:04:58] | skd5aner: | I'm guessing the STB gets in some weird state where it's not ouputting the signal correctly |
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| [17:06:11] | wagnerrp: | i'd sooner believe the screw up was at the encoder |
| [17:06:19] | skd5aner: | could be |
| [17:06:28] | skd5aner: | happens sporadically... pretty annying |
| [17:06:43] | skd5aner: | I can usually zoom and get it pretty much full screen fairly easily |
| [17:06:51] | skd5aner: | but, not sure why it does this |
| [17:07:04] | tgm4883: | skd5aner, is it an SD show they broadcast on an HD channel that happens to also be 16x9? |
| [17:07:24] | skd5aner: | Nope |
| [17:07:26] | tgm4883: | I didn't think they were that dumb anymore, but I've seen worse |
| [17:08:05] | skd5aner: | the border is perfectly the same ratio... as if someone said "shrink the picture by about 25% |
| [17:10:14] | tgm4883: | skd5aner, right, I was saying, if they took a 720p show and padded it for a 1080p channel |
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| [17:10:24] | tgm4883: | that would be about 25% smaller right? |
| [17:10:54] | tgm4883: | similar to how TNT used to make all of their shows "HD" by simply stretching 4:3 shows to 16:9 |
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| [17:42:13] | sphery: | skd5aner: I still have shows that are 480p 16:9 SDTV (i.e. DVD quality) or 720p 16:9 HDTV which are embedded into a 1080i 16:9 HDTV stream with black bars all around. |
| [17:42:56] | sphery: | skd5aner: also, I'll say that unless you're doing something wrong (like specifying an aspect ratio override or have X misconfigured), MythTV is displaying them as they're broadcast |
| [17:43:01] | sphery: | it's not shrinking them |
| [17:44:28] | sphery: | for those cases where you have a smaller 16:9 picture in your 16:9 display, just use MENU|Video|Zoom and set the zoom (not aspect ratio--which is to say, "ignore what the 4:3 video says and stretch the actors to make them look short and fat on my widescreen TV so that I don't see black bars on the left and right") |
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| [19:24:09] | wagnerrp_: | why is udo so stubborn about stupid things... |
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| [19:28:36] | tgm4883: | Looking at the video service (as an example, LookupVideo) at https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/ . . . eoServices.h How can you tell if a specific argument is REQUIRED as it is listed here http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Video_Service#LookupVideo |
| [19:29:09] | tgm4883: | I don't know C, but those arguments look the same to me |
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| [19:35:28] | wagnerrp: | i see nothing to indicate such |
| [19:35:51] | wagnerrp: | typically in C, you have to define a default parameter in the header |
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| [19:36:21] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, so is that stuff really REQUIRED anywhere, or is it just "this is what the dev thinks is necessary to actually get back any data but we didn't mark it REQUIRED in the actual code"? |
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| [19:38:08] | wagnerrp: | that's my interpretation |
| [19:38:29] | wagnerrp: | i guess if it's empty, the framework just gives a null constructed object |
| [19:38:53] | tgm4883: | ok then |
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| [19:43:56] | dekarl: | tgm4883: setting MYTHCONFDIR somewhere sane with group write permission for the backend user and frontend user sounds great :-) |
| [19:44:16] | sphery: | wagnerrp: I especially liked http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/534933#534933 , which Udo misunderstood http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/534943#534943 |
| [19:44:31] | sphery: | I'll admit, though, I probably shouldn't have sent my e-mail. |
| [19:45:27] | tgm4883: | dekarl, we're actually thinking of doing the opposite. Getting rid of /etc/mythtv as well as the mythtv group. And leaving config.xml in the home dir of the users |
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| [19:46:16] | dekarl: | please don't (its not going to work) |
| [19:46:34] | tgm4883: | dekarl, explain? |
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| [19:47:13] | dekarl: | mythtv-setup is run as $frontend-user and will put its files into ~/.mythtv. Later the backend/mfdb will look for the same files in ~/.mythtv but not find anything as its run as user mythtv |
| [19:47:42] | tgm4883: | dekarl, the backend currently looks for config.xml in $HOME/.mythtv/config.xml |
| [19:47:58] | dekarl: | try <video source>.xmltv ;) |
| [19:47:58] | tgm4883: | dekarl, the backend runs as the mythtv user, which has it's own HOME dir |
| [19:48:29] | dekarl: | channel logos do work because they are referenced by absolute path |
| [19:48:35] | tgm4883: | dekarl, that is how it currently works. After talking with wagnerrp the backend in Ubuntu never directly looks at /etc/mythtv/config.xml |
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| [19:49:37] | tgm4883: | not sure what you mean by <dekarl> try <video source>.xmltv ;) |
| [19:49:58] | dekarl: | thats what I'm refering to http://paste.ubuntu.com/1428238/ |
| [19:50:28] | dekarl: | the symlinks are manualy added so mfdb can be run by the backend |
| [19:50:54] | dekarl: | 'user' being my superimaginative frontend username :) |
| [19:51:50] | tgm4883: | dekarl, I don't use XMLTV, so please explain why you need those .xmltv files for both users |
| [19:51:55] | tgm4883: | dekarl, because of mythtv-setup? |
| [19:52:25] | dekarl: | aye, mythtv-setup will create them in the frontend user context but mfdb will search for them in the backend user context |
| [19:52:45] | tgm4883: | dekarl, ok, so what happens to XMLTV files when mythtv-setup moves to the web? |
| [19:53:22] | wagnerrp: | sphery: a medal for actually getting the information you want from udo? |
| [19:54:08] | wagnerrp: | how did that thread even get so off topic in the first place |
| [19:54:09] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah, I'm pretty sure he was talking to Bill, not to Udo |
| [19:54:16] | sphery: | and for patience |
| [19:54:21] | wagnerrp: | since it was supposed to be about php5.4 issues |
| [19:54:29] | sphery: | Oh, no, it's about Udo's issues |
| [19:54:29] | wagnerrp: | which has nothing to do with LocalHostName or database settings |
| [19:54:37] | wagnerrp: | yes, udo has very many issues |
| [19:55:03] | dekarl: | tgm4883: that would solve it. But what happens when the users runs mfdb manually? will it find the files? should mfdb simply pop and push the configuration from the MBE? |
| [19:55:24] | wagnerrp: | speaking of which, i meant to write an email to the dev list about proposed changes |
| [19:55:46] | wagnerrp: | basically, what you mentioned was originally chosen not to happen, change the 'hostname' key to some uuid which is always stored in config.xml |
| [19:56:12] | tgm4883: | dekarl, why run it manually unless you are trying to troubleshoot something, in which case, wouldn't it be better served being run as the mythtv user? |
| [19:56:30] | wagnerrp: | stuartm mentioned wanting to make the setting always used, but if that's the case, i would prefer to make it something that is clearly not a user-editable value (by users who don't know what they're doing) |
| [19:57:49] | dekarl: | tgm4883: I've been looking into channel icons, too. But I could not figure out a way to "dump this byte array to a file in a remote storage group" easily. (that, and random file names to avoid name collisions, is all it would take to convert *new* channel icons to SG.) |
| [19:58:13] | sphery: | wagnerrp: why a UUID? Why not a simple, user-specifiable (or at least user-choosable) name? |
| [19:58:23] | dekarl: | tgm4883: aye, mfdb should be run as backend user, too. hmm, how about a wrapper script that calls sudo? |
| [19:58:36] | sphery: | Did someone drink too much git Kool-Aid and think that hex digits are now easy to read? |
| [19:58:47] | sphery: | (and remember) |
| [19:58:50] | wagnerrp: | sphery: to prevent the user from editing it manually |
| [19:59:04] | sphery: | but we do want users to be able to choose which settings to use, right? |
| [19:59:05] | wagnerrp: | specifically, to prevent the UUID from being moved from one machine to another |
| [19:59:09] | sphery: | even if they reinstall or whatever |
| [19:59:11] | wagnerrp: | sure, with a GUI |
| [19:59:32] | wagnerrp: | tie a UUID to a hostname and a human readable name |
| [19:59:34] | sphery: | well, that would work |
| [19:59:36] | tgm4883: | dekarl, I could see that happening similar to the mythtv-setup wrapper |
| [19:59:54] | sphery: | how much does it really help with the "make sure they use a GUI" idea, though? |
| [20:00:11] | wagnerrp: | if the UUID ends up used on a different hostname, pop up a warning, giving the user the option to migrate the settings from the previous host, or clone the settings onto the new host |
| [20:00:30] | sphery: | even though a UUID is hard to remember, it's easy to copy/paste (and most of the "hack the DB directly" users are using a real keyboard/mouse/terminal or phpmyadmin type thing) |
| [20:00:55] | dekarl: | tgm4883: hmm, simply running mythtv-setup as backend user would be good, too (depend on the same access rights for hardware, etc.). I think the X11 permissions are an issue? |
| [20:00:56] | wagnerrp: | because the internal use of it would disallow copy/paste |
| [20:01:16] | wagnerrp: | unless the user actually knew what they were doing, and changed the hostname it was tied to in the databse |
| [20:01:41] | tgm4883: | dekarl, shouldn't be. what X11 permissions are you talking about? |
| [20:01:44] | sphery: | so, rather than directly edit settings, they now edit hosts and settings? |
| [20:02:23] | sphery: | anyway, as long as the (using-the-program-correctly) user never sees or interacts with the UUID, I have no problems using one |
| [20:02:35] | dekarl: | tgm4883: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1428255/ |
| [20:02:54] | wagnerrp: | settings would all get tied to a UUID, and would either be the default UUID for that hostname, or would be a custom name |
| [20:02:56] | sphery: | my point was mainly that a user shouldn't ever have to specify one--whether in the GUI or in config.xml--since it's impossible to remember |
| [20:02:58] | tgm4883: | dekarl, did you try gksudo |
| [20:03:11] | tgm4883: | dekarl, and are you logged into that machine, or in via SSH? |
| [20:03:21] | dekarl: | tgm4883: ssh -Y |
| [20:03:24] | wagnerrp: | when the user starts up a frontend with no config.xml, or one with no UUID defined, it asks the user what named profile it wants to use |
| [20:03:33] | wagnerrp: | and optionally lists named profiles available on other hosts |
| [20:03:45] | tgm4883: | dekarl, what if you switch to the mythtv user and try to run it? |
| [20:03:48] | tgm4883: | sudo su mythtv |
| [20:03:52] | dekarl: | tgm4883: but IIRC its been the same localy |
| [20:03:55] | wagnerrp: | if choosing one from another host, it requires the user choose to clone or migrate it |
| [20:04:05] | sphery: | wagnerrp: fwiw, though, I'm pretty sure, IIRC, our upgrade-the-config.xml code doesn't actually "upgrade" the LocalHostName override (it loses it in the upgrade), but I haven't felt compelled to look since Udo would just come back and claim that he fixed it |
| [20:04:09] | tgm4883: | dekarl, I'll have to test that when I get home |
| [20:04:21] | dekarl: | tgm4883: results in the same errors |
| [20:04:41] | wagnerrp: | if a UUID is defined in the config.xml, but is for the wrong host, it pops up the same dialog asking if the user wants to clone or migrate it |
| [20:05:11] | tgm4883: | dekarl, so that would affect graphical applications like mythtv-setup, but there aren't any others that would need to be run like that right? |
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| [20:05:44] | wagnerrp: | sphery: once everything is uniquely identified, make the use of that value pervasive |
| [20:06:06] | wagnerrp: | a UUID is 128 bits, so make the first 64 denote the cluster, and the second 64 denote the configuration instance |
| [20:06:20] | wagnerrp: | use that to allow a single UUID to do cluster matching on smolt |
| [20:06:23] | dekarl: | tgm4883: "that" means the X11 rights? Then yes, I think mythtv-setup is the only one that should be run as backend user and has a GUI. |
| [20:06:43] | wagnerrp: | use that to allow proper autodetection of the correct backend over UPNP, instead of the kludgy PIN |
| [20:07:31] | dekarl: | tgm4883: the X11 issues are the reason I was suggesting $MYTHCONFDIR + group access |
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| [20:08:19] | tgm4883: | dekarl, then I think we'll be fine provided the USER has a proper config.xml file. The X11 issues aren't issues if the user isn't trying to switch to the mythtv user (and will go away when mythtv-setup goes to the web) |
| [20:08:49] | tgm4883: | dekarl, also, there isn't a reason a user couldn't add $MYTHCONFDIR themselves right? |
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| [20:10:00] | dekarl: | tgm4883: yes, a user could add it on his/her own. But a new user that just install mythbuntu due to "all this linuxism have been taken care of for you" is unlikely to do that *before* running setup/backend ;) |
| [20:10:32] | dekarl: | ^- which is the reason I suggested it to Udo. He seems to be having issues with these Linuxisms |
| [20:10:37] | tgm4883: | dekarl, well a brand new user should have a proper config.xml file in their home dir |
| [20:11:15] | dekarl: | tgm4883: config.xml is not an issue at all. I'm thinking about *xmltv |
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| [20:11:53] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah, we're ignoring the old-format LocalHostName overrides ( http://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/mytht . . . ext.cpp#n453 ), but as users generally wouldn't be using them (and most have actually upgraded, already), I'm not inclined to fix it so that Udo can say how that thread was useful |
| [20:12:14] | tgm4883: | dekarl, where do the .xmltv files come from? |
| [20:12:16] | tgm4883: | the backend? |
| [20:12:18] | sphery: | and, your plan sounds good--again, my only concern is that the user should never see or interact with or need to know about the UUID |
| [20:12:48] | sphery: | (i.e. we need to keep from exposing things we shouldn't--like DB card IDs or ...) |
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| [20:13:35] | wagnerrp: | and the user shouldn't need to see it any more than the user should be tinkering in the config.xml |
| [20:14:23] | tgm4883: | dekarl, I think ideally, mythtv would check $HOME/.mythtv first, then fall back to $MYTHCONFDIR if the former doesn't exist. Then we could just not worry about separate directories for the FE and BE unless the user specifically set them up |
| [20:14:34] | tgm4883: | but IDK the reasoning behind making it the other way around |
| [20:14:36] | sphery: | so it would be in the config.xml |
| [20:14:37] | dekarl: | tgm4883: the xmltv grabber writes them when called from mythtv-setup. mythtv-setup makes up the filename. |
| [20:14:57] | wagnerrp: | right, the only place the UUID would be visible would be the config.xml and the database |
| [20:15:01] | dekarl: | tgm4883: the issue is with $HOME being different for ~frontenduser and ~mythtv |
| [20:15:09] | wagnerrp: | the GUI would only list the human-readable names |
| [20:15:55] | tgm4883: | dekarl, right, but we can't set a system wide $MYTHCONFDIR because it overrides the user settings |
| [20:16:03] | tgm4883: | which IMO doesn't make sense for this app |
| [20:16:42] | dekarl: | I don'T understand. What user settings? |
| [20:16:58] | tgm4883: | dekarl, ~/.mythtv |
| [20:17:01] | wagnerrp: | ~/.mythtv/config.xml |
| [20:17:08] | tgm4883: | the backend won't look there if $MYTHCONFDIR is set |
| [20:17:24] | wagnerrp: | it would prevent the user from running independent instances with independent profiles |
| [20:17:26] | dekarl: | and the problem with that is which? |
| [20:17:36] | tgm4883: | <wagnerrp> it would prevent the user from running independent instances with independent profiles |
| [20:17:48] | dekarl: | ahh, running multiple frontends with different settings on the same host |
| [20:17:56] | tgm4883: | yes |
| [20:17:57] | sphery: | or, rather than independent instances with independent profiles, would prevent running mythbackend and mythfrontend with different profiles |
| [20:18:18] | dekarl: | well now. Thats something that I'd expect to not be an issue for the users that are not into this linuxisms stuff :D |
| [20:18:34] | sphery: | personally, I'm not a fan of our current approach to letting users run multiple frontends on the same host--since it allows broken configs |
| [20:18:35] | tgm4883: | dekarl, true, but it breaks it for ALL users, not just the new ones |
| [20:18:40] | sphery: | (i.e. where they have port collisions and such) |
| [20:18:55] | dekarl: | Users at such an advanced level can do crazy stuff like have two MYTHCONFDIRS for seperate MYTH CONFs ;) |
| [20:18:58] | sphery: | if someone fixes that, then I don't mind allowing it |
| [20:18:59] | wagnerrp: | sphery: even when not run simultaneously? |
| [20:19:08] | wagnerrp: | such as different user accounts want different themes |
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| [20:19:24] | wagnerrp: | or you have one configuration for your monitor, and another for your projector |
| [20:19:34] | sphery: | my problem is just with the part that allows broken configs |
| [20:19:37] | tgm4883: | sphery, but what about having a dev backend on my laptop, and wanting to be able to connect to either my DEV backend when testing, or to my production backend (on another host) when wanting to relax |
| [20:19:42] | sphery: | due to port conflicts causing parts to not function properly |
| [20:19:49] | sphery: | anything else is fine |
| [20:20:08] | tgm4883: | dekarl, that seems like a lot of work to fix "my XMLTV files aren't in both directories" |
| [20:20:39] | wagnerrp: | dekarl: ideally, only the environment running mythbackend should ever need the xmltv files, correct? |
| [20:20:47] | dekarl: | wagnerrp: aye |
| [20:21:09] | tgm4883: | IMO, the backend user should be running the function that creates the XMLTV files |
| [20:21:10] | sphery: | he's concerned, though, about users running mfdb at the command line |
| [20:21:22] | dekarl: | wagnerrp: well and mythtv-setup until thats gone |
| [20:21:25] | tgm4883: | why the FE user should ever run backend stuff is beyond me |
| [20:21:51] | dekarl: | sphery: mfdb on the command line was just to get around the "mythtv-setup must die" point |
| [20:21:52] | wagnerrp: | you already wrap mythtv-setup, why can't that be forced to always do the same thing as mythbackend? |
| [20:21:56] | tgm4883: | sphery, mfdb should work, but as demonstrated by dekarl, mythtv-setup doesn't work via sudo su mythtv mythtv-setpu |
| [20:22:41] | ** tgm4883 feels like he's in some parellel universe where mythtv devs are now encouraging him to keep the wrapper scripts ** | |
| [20:23:03] | wagnerrp: | no, just acknowledging that's what's already in place |
| [20:23:09] | wagnerrp: | and it's going away at some point anyway |
| [20:23:37] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, ideally, we'd like to get rid of some of the extra cruft we've got |
| [20:23:39] | wagnerrp: | no sense making a temporary fix overly elaborate |
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| [20:27:08] | ** wagnerrp goes back to working on something instead of talking about something ** | |
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| [21:33:20] | justinh: | oh YEAH baby! |
| [21:34:16] | justinh: | got my PiIR blaster working :-D Range.. pretty immaterial if it'll go about 10 metres or so.. which it can. LOL. Who needs current limiting resistors anyway? |
| [21:35:08] | justinh: | 5 Ohms was too much, with a BC547C, 4k7 base resistance driven from the 3v3 GPIO on the Pi. So, not having any more resistors handy I just omitted it. Ker-blast! :-D |
| [21:36:23] | justinh: | Beirdo: I was following the 'long range' IR blaster schematic from lirc.org, the one with the big capacitor which trickle charges from the 5V regulator.. seems them saying '2–10 Ohms' was way too vague. So the transistor is doing the limiting of current now. If any |
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| [21:37:24] | justinh: | so now all I have to do is make a nice long cable, find somewhere to stash the Pi, mount the IR LED somewhere.. oh and get busy making an app for my phone |
| [21:40:09] | tonsofpcs: | PiIR? |
| [21:40:49] | tonsofpcs: | oh |
| [21:40:51] | tonsofpcs: | interesting. |
| [21:41:23] | tonsofpcs: | how is it wired? just an IR LED across the GPO? |
| [21:41:38] | justinh: | yeah. Networked IR blaster. And MPD player.. eventually |
| [21:41:42] | tonsofpcs: | are you deriving a clock from the pi or synthesizing? |
| [21:41:44] | tonsofpcs: | MPD? |
| [21:42:28] | tonsofpcs: | (I heard about the 100MHz FM transmitter using the GPO on the Pi... I guess if it can run at 100M, running at 38k shouldn't be too hard) |
| [21:42:34] | justinh: | tonsofpcs: no, NPN transistor, 4k7 from GPIO17, 5V to the LED anode, LED cathode to the transistor collector |
| [21:43:10] | justinh: | using the gpio lirc module they call 'lirc_rpi'.. some guy took the lirc_serial module & hacked on it |
| [21:44:15] | justinh: | and no, I'm not putting XBMC anywhere near this thing. It's too worthy. besides, I don't have anything with an HDMI input |
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| [21:45:03] | tonsofpcs: | no LCDs with DVI? |
| [21:45:18] | tonsofpcs: | (also, MCM sells a VGA adapter that plugs into the Pi if you really want) |
| [21:45:33] | tonsofpcs: | (that all said, I don't see the pi supporting HD MPEG2 and MPEG4 decode) |
| [21:45:53] | justinh: | it does |
| [21:46:04] | justinh: | you have to buy a key for mpeg2 decoding though |
| [21:46:31] | tonsofpcs: | I saw the thing about mpeg2 decoding keys... is it a hardware/FPGA decode? |
| [21:46:39] | justinh: | yup |
| [21:47:33] | tonsofpcs: | interesting. I may need to play with that... can it handle High profile with everything at maximum tilt and both max bandwidth and minimum bandwidth? |
| [21:47:45] | justinh: | no idea. Like I said, I won't be doing that |
| [21:47:54] | tonsofpcs: | and, if so, does it handle "film" flags properly... [nothing does ;)] |
| [21:47:59] | justinh: | but I read somewhere it'll cope with bluray bitrates |
| [21:48:21] | justinh: | whether the ethernet can or not.. hahahahaha. USB ethernet. LAME |
| [21:49:14] | justinh: | anyway, it's a pretty sweet toy for messing around with & I'll finally be able to get around do doing some home automation thanks to it being here |
| [21:49:15] | tonsofpcs: | Well, maximum bitrate for high profile is 80Mbit in theory (in practice, I have an encoder that will generate 90Mbps streams) |
| [21:50:06] | tonsofpcs: | as for ethernet... what do you mean USB ethernet? it has a *@#%(@*%* 500MHz clock on-board, they could easily run a 200 MHz clock for 100T.... |
| [21:50:15] | justinh: | I mean it's USB ethernet |
| [21:50:26] | justinh: | the NIC is on the USB |
| [21:50:30] | tonsofpcs: | :( |
| [21:50:41] | justinh: | what do you want? It's 25 quid! |
| [21:51:10] | justinh: | I bet those silly Android 'mini PC' efforts are siimilarly lame |
| [21:52:03] | tonsofpcs: | 25 quid is a lot of dollars :-p |
| [21:52:08] | justinh: | we've got some of those at work hooked up to HD monitors all over the place. For showing slideshows of product information sheets |
| [21:52:43] | tonsofpcs: | I have to say, I'm disappointed with the red 'bubble' pi cases. They're flipping huge. |
| [21:52:49] | justinh: | they're pretty neat, but I wouldn't be surprised if they make really crap 'HD' media players – which they all claim to be good at |
| [21:53:19] | tonsofpcs: | http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product//83-14629 looks interesting |
| [21:54:10] | justinh: | HOW MUCH? LOL |
| [21:54:14] | tonsofpcs: | also, what's this about "teaching programming to kids" ? I'm sitting at my desk wearing this shirt: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ysggh_qaU_g/UDao0f6 . . . r%2Bword.jpg |
| [21:54:32] | tonsofpcs: | $74 = 45 quid. |
| [21:54:49] | justinh: | it's a load of bollocks, is what the whole 'teaching programming to kids' schtick is |
| [21:55:15] | tonsofpcs: | includes a pi, a PSU, a case, a 4GB pre-programmed SD card, and an HDMI cable |
| [21:55:32] | tonsofpcs: | and, to be fair, the case actually has four metal pieces. |
| [21:55:42] | justinh: | sure, take a load of Pis, put them in a classroom equipped with PCs already.. watch the kids destroy the HDMI cables/connectors in very short time as they have to unplug them from PCs already in the classroom.. |
| [21:55:43] | tonsofpcs: | (it still looks flimsy but ... |
| [21:56:14] | justinh: | and PYTHON?! for teaching kids programming? I'm not sure it's any better than Visual Studio or whatever |
| [21:56:34] | justinh: | still, at least they'll learn to indent. Muhahahaha |
| [21:56:40] | tonsofpcs: | well, anything is better than VS.net.... |
| [21:56:56] | tonsofpcs: | heck, anything has a better name than VS.net. YES, Even BF. |
| [21:57:13] | justinh: | the main problem with tech teaching in schools in the UK these days is that kids are taught to use programs rather than make them |
| [21:57:26] | justinh: | that there are no tools to teach the programming is WRONG |
| [21:57:39] | wizbit: | justinh: php v python ? |
| [21:58:10] | sphery: | I thought the main "teach kids programming" part was Scratch--which is more drag and drop conditions and actions than programming |
| [21:58:13] | justinh: | schools can just as easily get OSS development tools & languages to use on ordinary PCs.. but the problem will remain... there aren't enough teachers who can teach programming, end of story |
| [21:58:13] | tonsofpcs: | my brother just called me this past weekend asking "how do I learn Java" |
| [21:58:25] | tonsofpcs: | he got a not-so-brief lecture about how he should learn to program and not "learn Java" |
| [21:58:33] | justinh: | sphery: yeah and that, but it doesn't HAVE to run on a Pi |
| [21:58:57] | justinh: | and it's not even as if kids these days don't have their own laptops, on which they could harmlessly learn to program, either |
| [21:59:08] | justinh: | so the whole educational argument for the Pi is bunk too |
| [21:59:17] | tonsofpcs: | no, but pis are cheap. and with the whole "euro standardized on B-micro" thing, I understand the PSU choice. |
| [21:59:30] | justinh: | PCs aren't cheap but they're everywhere |
| [21:59:42] | tonsofpcs: | remember, justinh: design doesn't always equate to use. |
| [21:59:49] | sphery: | I agree that it's not nearly as educational as claimed |
| [21:59:51] | tonsofpcs: | heck, maybe the whole thing is to raise money to pay teachers? idk... |
| [22:00:24] | tonsofpcs: | oh well, done for the day, cya |
| [22:00:26] | justinh: | god, even when I was at school we learned programming in BASIC.. and even then the teachers knew squat |
| [22:00:43] | sphery: | and the idea that there's some magic, "if we just give kids a cheap computer, they can learn to program without realizing that they're learning/working," approach is contra to the whole concept of what programming is about |
| [22:00:45] | justinh: | I was hauled out of other lessons to help the CS teachers out |
| [22:01:05] | justinh: | sphery: yeah.. and again besides the point when they likely already have a blimmin laptop or 3 at home |
| [22:01:13] | sphery: | programming is work and if you don't want to work, you won't ever learn to program |
| [22:01:20] | sphery: | hehe, yeah |
| [22:01:33] | sphery: | except for those on the other side of the digital divide, of course :) |
| [22:01:35] | justinh: | but the Pi is cheap.. it doesn't matter so much if they blow it up! Wait, you can blow up a computer with bad programming? Uh Oh! |
| [22:02:01] | justinh: | sphery: families without computers probably have better things to spend £25 on |
| [22:02:05] | justinh: | like food |
| [22:02:08] | sphery: | (though this solution just changes the digital divide to mean that one side has real computers and one side has toys) |
| [22:02:12] | tonsofpcs: | I do want to see someone sell a USB hub-embeded-in-a-pi-case with a built-in power cord for the pi. |
| [22:02:21] | sphery: | agreed |
| [22:02:53] | tonsofpcs: | sphery: ftfy: (though this solution just changes the digital divide to mean that one side has real computers and toys while the other side still has nothing) |
| [22:03:05] | justinh: | but, it's a fun toy for tinkering with. I've had a great feeling getting my IR zapper working. Click on the PHP generated page, send IR commands! :-D |
| [22:03:43] | justinh: | FWIW in the UK I think even people on the so-called poverty line still have xboxen etc.. hence them being too poor to buy good food IMHO |
| [22:03:44] | sphery: | Though, I have to admit that IMHO, if a school is going to make the blunder of thinking that "If we just give everyone the technology, they will learn", I'd much prefer their making a $35/unit mistake than a $499(?)/unit mistake of giving out iPads (especially since that money is paid from my taxes) |
| [22:03:57] | justinh: | sphery: yeah THAT |
| [22:03:58] | wizbit: | forget the pi, get a olimex |
| [22:04:04] | wizbit: | https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A13 . . . nuXino-WIFI/ |
| [22:04:07] | sphery: | and, yes, there are school districts in the US (and UK, IIRC) that have given out iPads to every kid |
| [22:04:13] | justinh: | sphery: I know. |
| [22:04:29] | justinh: | discount or no discount.. SHEESH |
| [22:04:49] | justinh: | mind, they've also given out tons of laptops too |
| [22:05:11] | justinh: | oh, best of all one authority is sitting on literally thousands of unused laptops, unsure of what to do with them |
| [22:05:25] | justinh: | now out of warranty... |
| [22:05:33] | justinh: | you couldn't make any of it up |
| [22:06:32] | justinh: | anyway, sure I could've done this IR blasting with my mythtv backend & a serial blaster.. but.. serial ports may not be present on the next backend.. and I already know how crap those MCE blaster things are |
| [22:07:48] | justinh: | sphery: somebody I know was given a Vaio laptop to fix the other day. An expensive one. Smashed to within an inch of its very existence. The little dear who had it wanted a Macbook Air instead, so smashed it up |
| [22:07:49] | sphery: | wow, that's awful |
| [22:08:33] | sphery: | hehe (about Vaio "upgrade" plan :) |
| [22:09:14] | justinh: | she'd had it only a few days |
| [22:10:04] | justinh: | when I was a kid me or my sisters might've thrown a tantrum cos we'd have liked some sweets or something.. but a laptop you drop more than a grand on?! |
| [22:10:39] | justinh: | no kid of mine is ever going to have more computing power than me. I swear! LOL |
| [22:11:04] | dekarl: | sphery: I prefer givin out iPads over talking countries into buying submarines they don't need and giving them 50% discount on the dozen with the other 50% coming from MY pocket |
| [22:11:17] | sphery: | yeah she definitely needs to learn some consequences for her actions |
| [22:11:52] | justinh: | the discipline part of bringing kids up isn't half a conundrum. when our Tom kicks off.. oh holy crap. |
| [22:11:58] | sphery: | dekarl: hehe, which case is this one? I don't remember hearing about that |
| [22:12:36] | dekarl: | germany selling submarines to israel. (ignoring the ones we sell to greece in the last 10 years, now paying for those, too.) |
| [22:12:46] | sphery: | wow |
| [22:13:15] | dekarl: | ohh, its only half a dozen (that changes everything :) |
| [22:13:37] | justinh: | the old saying about sparing the rod is all well & good, but there's only so much hypocrisy you can get away with "Don't smack your sister.. WHACK!" |
| [22:14:02] | dekarl: | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin-Klasse#Einheiten iPaid 100%+100%+50%+33%+33%+33% of 600%.. hmm |
| [22:14:16] | justinh: | half a dozen, at how many hundreds of millions each? ;-) |
| [22:16:06] | dekarl: | between 225 and 550 each |
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| [22:16:33] | justinh: | so 6x 550 million... only 3 billion. Next year's budget... |
| [22:16:34] | dekarl: | now thats a bunch of iPad :D |
| [22:16:52] | justinh: | yea a few thousand iPads pales into insignificance |
| [22:17:08] | justinh: | oh wait.. |
| [22:17:23] | justinh: | I keep forgetting just how expensive those fondleslabs are |
| [22:17:53] | sphery: | not to mention the whole forced lock-in to iTunes stores and Apple's walled garden |
| [22:18:07] | sphery: | (which is the lingering effect) |
| [22:18:37] | justinh: | what? I see no evil here. I LOVE Apple. You must join us... |
| [22:18:42] | justinh: | joooooooooooooooooin ussssssssssssss! |
| [22:19:11] | sphery: | hehe |
| [22:19:17] | wizbit: | Your choice is simple: join us and live in peace, or pursue your present course and face obliteration. |
| [22:19:39] | justinh: | but look! THE SHINY! |
| [22:20:00] | dekarl: | turkey and greece get half a dozen of these, each. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Boot-Klasse_214#Boote at least the bill of greece is likely being paid via EU taxes indirectly. (don't ask me why we are selling subs to both sides of a conflict and at the same time want both countries to be happy members of the same european union ;) |
| [22:20:06] | sphery: | yeah, I want to support a company that patents the leaf: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/10/apple . . . rk_the_leaf/ |
| [22:20:14] | sphery: | er, trademarks (whatever) |
| [22:20:33] | justinh: | I've played with an iPad a couple of times, and yeah they're pretty nifty but not worth the kind of money they want for the kind of lockin they enforce. no expandable storage?! Meh |
| [22:20:42] | justinh: | sphery: and wireless charging, now |
| [22:20:59] | justinh: | despite there being prior art from umm... just about a year ago |
| [22:21:16] | justinh: | sorry patenting wireless charging now, not trademarking it |
| [22:21:42] | sphery: | makes sense that Apple Computer, Inc. would trademark that shape in computers, and--of course--jewelry, educational material, footwear, film streaming services and paper packaging for audio tapes |
| [22:21:50] | justinh: | and, going by the El reg article about it, inductors & capacitors in parallel, too |
| [22:22:20] | justinh: | if they get a patent on RF tuned circuits I think I might just quit existing |
| [22:22:25] | sphery: | yeah, that's going to be a minefield in the future |
| [22:22:34] | justinh: | I won't be able to handle that kind of insanity if that's granted |
| [22:23:14] | justinh: | I don't entirely blame Apple for this. It isn't their fault the patent system is so broken |
| [22:23:19] | sphery: | right |
| [22:23:39] | sphery: | but they have definitely taken it too far |
| [22:23:45] | justinh: | somebody else would've |
| [22:23:53] | sphery: | oh, yeah--and many others have also |
| [22:24:03] | justinh: | trolls! |
| [22:24:07] | sphery: | they're just one of the ones in the spotlight, now |
| [22:24:22] | justinh: | I hate to think of all the worse ones we don't hear about |
| [22:24:46] | justinh: | I was amazed when I found out MP3 was patented. Liek wha? You can't.. patent.. emm pee fleas! |
| [22:25:05] | sphery: | and, yeah, trolls are probably worse--at least apple makes /something/, so their patent claims fit better with the intent of patent |
| [22:26:00] | justinh: | a guy at work told me a good one.. not about patents.. but he's er.. a downloader of videos, shall we say.. and his TV, 20 minutes or so into watching a film he'd er.. got... muted the audio & said onscreen "oh no, piracy detected... " or words to that effect |
| [22:26:31] | justinh: | watermarking in the audio steams.. inscrutible buggers! |
| [22:27:17] | sphery: | hehe |
| [22:27:32] | justinh: | I thought it was outrageous at first, then hilarious |
| [22:28:22] | justinh: | then we had the 'what next? making sure your chair is Sony DRM-play-fine equipped too, so not only can you not skip parts of a disc, you HAVE to sit & watch.. no leaving the room when the trailers come on!" |
| [22:28:29] | justinh: | discussion :-) |
| [22:28:49] | sphery: | hehe |
| [22:28:57] | sphery: | I love those discs with mandatory trailers |
| [22:29:15] | sphery: | makes me hate the industry--and I actually /like/ seeing trailers before a movie |
| [22:29:36] | justinh: | another friend of mine was absolutely appalled to learn of unskippable trailers on BD.. and also of downloaded mandatory content |
| [22:30:46] | justinh: | another reason I'm just not rushing to buy into HD |
| [22:31:07] | sphery: | yeah, I don't have a BluRay player, yet |
| [22:31:19] | justinh: | but I just wouldn't care, if what they were offering was compelling enough, and the UE wasn't so.. CRAP |
| [22:31:51] | sphery: | though I do have S2 of The Walking Dead on BluRay (watched it with my gf on her PS3) |
| [22:31:59] | justinh: | look at Sky over here.. I'm almost willing to part with money to watch some shows I can't get on FTA TV.. but not if I have to endure their STB |
| [22:32:32] | justinh: | not just their STB UI.. the general experience. Locking up, losing recordings, signal dropouts.. |
| [22:32:34] | sphery: | yeah, I'm still happy with my OTA-only MythTV system and getting the only-on-paid-TV shows I actually want to watch on disc |
| [22:32:42] | sphery: | and it's still much cheaper than the subs |
| [22:32:52] | justinh: | get the whole package from them & it's like half a grand a year |
| [22:32:53] | sphery: | plus all that |
| [22:33:19] | sphery: | so many of my friends have DVR problems and then the cable co switches out the DVR and they lose all their recordings they haven't watched |
| [22:33:23] | justinh: | if I'm paying that much, I don't want it to break down every other week, or skip bits in recordings because it was raining |
| [22:33:37] | justinh: | and people are still paying for it?! |
| [22:33:48] | justinh: | THE FOOLS! Can't you see??!?!?!?!? |
| [22:33:57] | justinh: | them "Joooooooooooooooin Ussssssssssssss"... |
| [22:34:11] | justinh: | man, I need to ressurect my old blog site.. ;-) |
| [22:34:39] | justinh: | www.RantyMcRanter-Of-Rantsville-UK.wordpress.com |
| [22:34:56] | sphery: | hehe |
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| [22:38:20] | justinh: | anyway, none of this is getting some PHP pages hacked together.. |
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| [22:44:06] | wizbit: | what happened to http://torcdvr.com/ ? |
| [22:47:33] | kormoc: | wizbit: they're still chugging away, https://github.com/Torc/torc/commits/master |
| [22:47:58] | wizbit: | oh yeah |
| [22:48:33] | ** wizbit re-invents the wheel ** | |
| [22:49:01] | kormoc: | a fork is hardly re-inventing the wheel |
| [22:49:24] | wizbit: | aye true i suppose |
| [22:52:21] | wizbit: | im so tempted to ditch raid, and use lvm striping together with a good backup system instead |
| [22:52:58] | ** wizbit thinks of all that extra space / drives what can be used as backup drives instead ** | |
| [22:53:17] | sphery: | I hope you don't mean for MythTV--as there's no need for striping with MythTV recordings (and it probably has more disadvantages than advantages for MythTV) |
| [22:53:37] | wizbit: | its for my multimedia, video & music mainly |
| [22:53:40] | sphery: | recordings are lots of data--but it's slow data |
| [22:53:41] | wizbit: | not mythrecordings |
| [22:54:34] | sphery: | yeah, but even that doesn't need fast read/write--because you're limited by your ability to display/perceive the data, not by the HDD |
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| [22:54:45] | wizbit: | can mythvideo use more than 1 hard drive? |
| [22:54:49] | wizbit: | and mythmusic |
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| [22:55:14] | sphery: | Video Library uses a Storage Group, which means a list of directories, which could be on any file system on any hard drive |
| [22:55:17] | ** wizbit thinks RAID is a waste of money for home users ** | |
| [22:55:45] | wizbit: | can the Music library use a storage group in the same way? |
| [22:55:47] | sphery: | MythMusic isn't using SGs, yet, but I think it can have multiple dirs |
| [22:55:53] | wizbit: | ok |
| [22:56:45] | wizbit: | i still think lvm striping makes things nice and neat for video and music |
| [22:56:51] | wizbit: | its easier to backup also |
| [22:57:04] | wizbit: | rather than bits of different drives |
| [22:57:16] | wizbit: | *on |
| [22:57:24] | sphery: | can't you do the LVM thing without striping |
| [22:57:41] | wizbit: | like raid-0 ? |
| [22:58:14] | wizbit: | raid is not backup so why bother using raid at home, its not as if uptime is 100% essential |
| [22:58:40] | wizbit: | those extra drives wasted in raid-6 could be used for backup drives |
| [22:59:01] | sphery: | I mean like concatenation--without any striping/interleaving of data |
| [22:59:08] | wizbit: | ok |
| [23:00:28] | wizbit: | raid-1 mirror is not backup, so i wont be using that either |
| [23:00:53] | sphery: | I'll admit that I'm not knowledgeable about file systems or LVM and others (like wagne rrp) would know far more than I, but it seems to me that striping only benefits you when you need fast reading and/or writing and is an unnecessary risk when you don't |
| [23:01:09] | wizbit: | right ok |
| [23:01:28] | wizbit: | imagine i bought 1x 2TB drive, what size drive would i need to back that up properly? |
| [23:01:52] | wizbit: | surely movies dont need incremental backups |
| [23:02:16] | wizbit: | same with music |
| [23:03:58] | wizbit: | but i dont want to backup corruption either... |
| [23:03:59] | ** wizbit thinks ** | |
| [23:05:47] | kormoc: | there's no requirements to stripe LVM |
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| [23:06:42] | ** wizbit would rather focus on a good backup system than raid ** | |
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| [23:08:33] | kormoc: | crash plan |
| [23:09:19] | wizbit: | maybe i could use lvm to join 3x 2TB drives together |
| [23:09:24] | wizbit: | think of that space |
| [23:09:40] | wizbit: | then get another 3x 2TB drives for the backup |
| [23:09:46] | kormoc: | meh, /dev/sdb1 15T 2.8T 12T 20% /mnt/data |
| [23:09:47] | wizbit: | and use rsync |
| [23:10:06] | wizbit: | kormoc: is that raid |
| [23:10:18] | kormoc: | use rsnapshot rather then just rsync, it's time machine for linux |
| [23:10:27] | wizbit: | i use that already |
| [23:10:37] | wizbit: | but rsnapshot on movies is not a good diea |
| [23:10:38] | wizbit: | idea |
| [23:10:40] | kormoc: | wizbit: yes, 1+0, so it's actually 30tb, and I have two of them |
| [23:10:48] | wizbit: | jeeeze |
| [23:10:58] | wizbit: | kormoc: you back that all up |
| [23:11:07] | kormoc: | wizbit: why not? it's hard links, so as long as they never change, it only will use the size of one copy |
| [23:11:37] | dekarl: | wizbit, are you trying to setup a home server such that any issue with one hd makes you lose the content of all hds? (also called striping) |
| [23:11:37] | kormoc: | wizbit: yes. it's part of a drbd cluster, so it's mirrored to another server |
| [23:11:56] | wizbit: | nice |
| [23:12:16] | wizbit: | i will not use striping, but i will use lvm to join 3x 2TB drives |
| [23:12:26] | kormoc: | joining is striping, just large stripes |
| [23:12:28] | wizbit: | to make it look like a 6Tb partition |
| [23:12:43] | wizbit: | oh ok |
| [23:13:00] | wizbit: | if its all backed up properly, it doesnt matter if it goes down |
| [23:13:13] | dekarl: | any sane filesystem will break your files into chunks of a few MB to avoid fragmentation |
| [23:13:19] | kormoc: | my biggest problem is ext4 is limited to 16t per filesystem |
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| [23:15:06] | wizbit: | ok ill use rsnapshot again then |
| [23:15:15] | dekarl: | wizbit, anyway. just hinting that striping/LVM comes with the cost of have to restore everything (the time involved) when it does not offer much gain when you can simply use a SG with one filesystem per disk |
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| [23:15:41] | wizbit: | SG? |
| [23:15:54] | dekarl: | StorageGroup |
| [23:16:16] | wizbit: | SG = mythtv only |
| [23:16:21] | wizbit: | i might use other apps |
| [23:16:23] | wizbit: | like mocp |
| [23:16:25] | wizbit: | etc |
| [23:16:45] | dekarl: | other apps that directly access your videos/recordings instead of going via the mythtv backend? |
| [23:16:50] | wizbit: | https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydevelope . . . ing1?lang=en |
| [23:16:57] | wizbit: | yep |
| [23:17:12] | wizbit: | actually that would be music mainly |
| [23:17:33] | dekarl: | thats why I was asking about "the big files only" :) |
| [23:17:36] | wizbit: | i cant get my head around wasting 2x 2TB drives in RAID-6 |
| [23:17:46] | dekarl: | I bet you can squeeze all your music into 2TB |
| [23:18:06] | wizbit: | maybe |
| [23:18:21] | wizbit: | /dev/mapper/storage-music 318G 200G 102G 67% /srv/music |
| [23:18:25] | wizbit: | def! |
| [23:19:11] | wizbit: | 1x 2TB music + 1x 2TB music backup |
| [23:19:37] | ** dekarl is just praising mythtv's goodness. Using a zpool is also nice (to catch silent data corruption) doesn't have to use raidz stuff ** | |
| [23:19:38] | wizbit: | i guess i could do the same for video |
| [23:20:12] | wizbit: | to hell with it, 3TB drives have come down |
| [23:20:13] | kormoc: | shove your data into the cloud if you care about it. One fire and it's all gone otherwise, |
| [23:20:53] | wizbit: | 1x 3TB Video + 1x 3TB Video Backup via rsnapshot |
| [23:21:07] | wizbit: | 1x 3TB Music + 1x 3TB Music Backup via rsnapshot |
| [23:21:09] | dekarl: | the cloud will make things easier http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/08/apple- . . . nan-hacking/ even losing your stuff :D |
| [23:21:17] | wizbit: | that would last me forever |
| [23:21:55] | wizbit: | no silly raid to worry about |
| [23:22:05] | wizbit: | no lvm striping |
| [23:22:11] | wizbit: | SG |
| [23:22:36] | kormoc: | dekarl: no, that was purely giving access to local machines via the cloud. pushing your data to the cloud in encrypted format is entirely different |
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| [23:23:36] | dekarl: | kormoc, lets just pretend the cloud storage was linked to the same accounts (lets call it the iCloud) |
| [23:24:27] | dekarl: | it all comes down to "if you care about the data you have to invest thoughts about how to protect it" doesn't really matter if its something local or cloudy |
| [23:25:55] | wizbit: | ohh my video drive is dead, big deal, replace it then restore backup |
| [23:26:10] | wizbit: | that would be faster than rebuilding a raid |
| [23:26:44] | kormoc: | dekarl: iCloud is not a backup service. it's a sync service. Entirely different |
| [23:28:00] | dekarl: | kormoc, true. I should have avoided giving my made up cloud service the same name as an existing service |
| [23:30:00] | dekarl: | wizbit: how is some downtime "faster" then no downtime? (thinking of WAF) I do agree with you in the other points. (so much that I don't even backup my recording drives. its just TV after all) |
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