| Thursday, October 11th, 2012, 00:05 UTC | ||
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| [00:08:27] | J-e-f-f-A: | slickrick: I have some udev rules for you... I had the same issue... ;-) |
| [00:09:56] | J-e-f-f-A: | slickrick: For your PVR-500 tuners, create a file named /etc/udev/rules.d/51-mythtv-tuner-rules and put this in it: |
| [00:10:07] | J-e-f-f-A: | slickrick: KERNEL=="video[0–9]", SYSFS{vendor}=="0x4444",SYSFS{device}=="0x0016", SYSFS{subsystem_device}=="0xe807", SYMLINK+="pvr500–1", MODE="0766" |
| [00:10:07] | J-e-f-f-A: | #KERNEL=="video[0–9]", SYSFS{vendor}=="0x4444",SYSFS{device}=="0x0016", SYSFS{subsystem_device}=="0xe817", SYMLINK+="pvr500–2", MODE="0766" |
| [00:10:22] | J-e-f-f-A: | plus one for the HD-PVR: |
| [00:11:07] | J-e-f-f-A: | slickrick: KERNEL=="video[0–9]*", ATTRS{serial}=="00A3xxxx", SYMLINK+="hdpvr0", GROUP="video" <--- replacing the serial # with your HD-PVR's serial number... |
| [00:11:53] | J-e-f-f-A: | slickrick: Then you point myth to /dev/hdpvr0 and /dev/pvr500–1 and /dev/pvr500–2 .... instead of the /dev/video* devices. |
| [00:19:10] | J-e-f-f-A: | Everybody must be on vacation – this channel used to be quite active at this time of night.............. |
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| [00:29:58] | jpabq`: | wagnerrp, If you want to get rid of jppoet, that is fine. I doubt I even remember the password, at this point ;-) |
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| [00:31:31] | IReboot: | jm|laptop: If your recordings continue to make mkvmerge crash with a malloc error after the missing audio header flood it may be something you can contact MKVToolNix about. Lossless Cut is dependant on mkvmerge. |
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| [00:38:58] | knightr_: | wagnerrp, sorry for the delayed reply... That's handled internally from what I understood. The pages have to be marked for translation and once that's done people allowed to translate (it can be open to everybody like they done on some wikis or limited to a small group) can click "Translate this page". They then choose which language they want to translate the page into and start filling in the translation units (which are automa |
| [00:38:58] | knightr_: | gically created from what I understood). |
| [00:41:10] | knightr_: | Normal users see a language bar at the top of the page to display those translations... |
| [00:42:00] | ertyu-m: | btw, the chanserv announcement on join is listing 0.25.1 as the current release |
| [00:42:35] | knightr_: | The URL of those translation pages does have a language code appended to it but neither the translator nor the user have to do anything about it... |
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| [00:47:51] | phunyguy_laptop: | hey folks! |
| [00:50:42] | phunyguy_laptop: | my question is only vaguely mythtv related, but it is related. I am thinking of ordering TV service through the telco company (iptv), and it is VERY similar to AT&T U-Verse. Are there any weird iptv things that would prevent me from ditching their crappy all-in-one router in favor of something a little better? I have a security gateway, seperate wifi access point after that, and I want to be able to just put a sw |
| [00:51:17] | phunyguy_laptop: | hopefully there are some iptv geeks in here |
| [00:51:58] | phunyguy_laptop: | those jerks are forcing me to "rent" their router, and I don't want it. |
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| [00:54:42] | phunyguy_laptop: | I spoke with them on the phone and they couldn't tell me if it would work or not, but I won't buy it until I know for sure I don't need their stupid router. They did tell me that the TV box sits on the external network, so in theory it should just need a connection just like my router, on the same switch. |
| [00:55:19] | phunyguy_laptop: | so how it relates to MythTV? Can't it accept iptv streams? Is it designed around things like U-Verse? |
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| [01:21:43] | Kevin`: | is there a way to have mythtv handle being unable to tune a channel/input? perhaps being able to select another channel? |
| [01:24:26] | Kevin`: | it's especially annoying when the start channel doesn't work. nothing you can do besides open the setup program or edit the database |
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| [01:43:49] | jafa: | is there a util or command to automatically detect and delete inconsistencies between the db and the recorded files on the filesystem? |
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| [02:42:36] | J-e-f-f-A: | Kevin` – Maybe just correct your channel lineup to not have the 'bad' channel? |
| [02:43:00] | J-e-f-f-A: | jafa: why do you have inconsistencies, that's the bigger question. |
| [02:43:17] | J-e-f-f-A: | jafa: You should only be deleting files via MythTV's frontend or mythweb. |
| [02:43:23] | J-e-f-f-A: | (er recordings) |
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| [02:46:31] | wagnerrp: | phunyguy1laptop: there are some forms of IPTV MythTV is capable of recording directly off of |
| [02:46:53] | wagnerrp: | however U-Verse is encrypted, and done so for the purposes of DRM |
| [02:47:05] | wagnerrp: | it's not within our capability to access it |
| [02:47:06] | phunyguy1laptop: | k, so that is fine. |
| [02:47:17] | phunyguy1laptop: | do you know a lot about uVerse? |
| [02:47:20] | wagnerrp: | we must do analog capture of an AT&T set top box |
| [02:47:31] | phunyguy1laptop: | and generally how it works? |
| [02:47:33] | wagnerrp: | same goes for Dish and DirecTV |
| [02:47:45] | J-e-f-f-A: | ... and many cable providers nowadays. :-( |
| [02:47:48] | wagnerrp: | ive never used it, but i more or less know how it works |
| [02:48:05] | phunyguy1laptop: | ok, well its a different company but they use the same equipment as AT&T |
| [02:48:19] | phunyguy1laptop: | and I am wondering if I /really/ need to use their router |
| [02:48:33] | wagnerrp: | what J-e-f-f-A said... cable has a conditional access system called CableCard, and we can use cablecard tuners to record encrypted digital cable |
| [02:48:35] | phunyguy1laptop: | i couldnt think of any other place to ask. |
| [02:48:49] | wagnerrp: | however if that digital cable is marked for DRM, as with U-Verse, we cannot touch it |
| [02:48:51] | Kevin`: | there HAVE to be at least some customers of att who know what they are doing with networking |
| [02:49:08] | Kevin`: | and nobody would willingly use a modemrouter |
| [02:49:22] | phunyguy1laptop: | I have a fiber optic cable to the house, and I get my net through it currently. |
| [02:49:48] | wagnerrp: | fiber directly to an optical transducer in your home? |
| [02:49:53] | phunyguy1laptop: | they give you an RJ45 jack in the house that my router currently is plugged in to (Linux security appliance) |
| [02:50:00] | wagnerrp: | usually uverse is some blend of DSL |
| [02:50:05] | phunyguy1laptop: | yah the transducer is on the outside wall |
| [02:50:11] | Kevin`: | I however have not seen any information about uverse networking setup, aside from mention of vlan ids for the iptv and such |
| [02:50:13] | phunyguy1laptop: | this isnt uverse, but similar |
| [02:50:17] | wagnerrp: | your login mask would tend to agree with it being uverse |
| [02:50:18] | Kevin`: | no information on how you are supposed to use a router with it |
| [02:50:22] | wagnerrp: | s/uverse/dsl/ |
| [02:50:22] | phunyguy1laptop: | uverse is fiber to the street |
| [02:50:58] | Kevin`: | phunyguy1laptop: what two addresses does your linux router have? |
| [02:51:00] | phunyguy1laptop: | I have fiber to the house, but that aside, the TV is essentially the same, and they are making me rent /their/ crappy actiontec router. |
| [02:51:00] | wagnerrp: | anyway, are you asking if you can make your router operate as a dumb bridge? |
| [02:51:30] | phunyguy1laptop: | I anm asking if I can not use the router at all and put a switch in it's place. They said the TV Set Top box gets an external IP> |
| [02:51:52] | phunyguy1laptop: | have the wall jack go to the switch, then from the switch to my router AND the set top box |
| [02:51:57] | wagnerrp: | oh, right... it's not a modem, just a router |
| [02:52:03] | phunyguy1laptop: | so they say. |
| [02:52:10] | phunyguy1laptop: | but they also call it a modem which i highly doubt |
| [02:52:10] | Kevin`: | phunyguy1laptop: monitor the traffic on both sides of the router, if it's ethernet on both ends |
| [02:52:14] | wagnerrp: | the router may be doing some PPPoE |
| [02:52:22] | wagnerrp: | you would have to duplicate that |
| [02:52:24] | phunyguy1laptop: | thats what I am afraid of. |
| [02:52:31] | phunyguy1laptop: | however for internet it doesnt |
| [02:52:41] | phunyguy1laptop: | straight DHCP into the wall jack |
| [02:53:03] | wagnerrp: | remove the router, plug a machine into the rj-45, and see what happens |
| [02:53:08] | Kevin`: | phunyguy1laptop: since you have a uverse equivalent, information would be quite useful to me. they don't even have PRICING information on their web site |
| [02:53:28] | wagnerrp: | if it doesn't work, try spoofing your router's MAC address |
| [02:53:30] | phunyguy1laptop: | wagnerrp: that works fine, and I dont have TV service yet. I dont want to buy it if I have to get rid of my security appliance or put a $20 router in it's place. |
| [02:53:44] | J-e-f-f-A: | Actually, the router is a bridge between the Ethernet and Coax... It lets the STB talk over Coax. |
| [02:53:46] | wagnerrp: | and then try manually setting the IP address |
| [02:54:04] | phunyguy1laptop: | J-e-f-f-A: they said I could plug the set top box in via RJ45 also |
| [02:54:08] | J-e-f-f-A: | I have that router with FiOS. |
| [02:54:16] | J-e-f-f-A: | Oh, then maybe you don't need their router. ;-) |
| [02:54:22] | phunyguy1laptop: | thats my thinking exactly |
| [02:54:34] | phunyguy1laptop: | the router has COAX but it is my choice they said. |
| [02:54:40] | J-e-f-f-A: | Although they may not have the RJ45 jack enabled... |
| [02:54:47] | J-e-f-f-A: | ah. |
| [02:54:47] | Kevin`: | J-e-f-f-A: how do you disable the routing part of your fios router so you get external ips assigned to any device attached to it? |
| [02:54:48] | phunyguy1laptop: | they said they do. |
| [02:54:53] | wagnerrp: | if it still doesn't work, then you're going to have to figure out how to dig into the router's configuration and figure out what kind of tunneling it is using |
| [02:55:14] | J-e-f-f-A: | Kevin` I just use port forwarding like any other router. I only have one external IP. |
| [02:55:15] | phunyguy1laptop: | yeahm and unfortunately, I'm not sore I would be able to emulate it. |
| [02:55:42] | phunyguy1laptop: | they also told me that if I can make it work witout the router, to send it back and they wont charge me forit. |
| [02:55:55] | Kevin`: | J-e-f-f-A: see, that wouldn't work at all for me. the routing on those devices is limited and causes problems if you do anything fancy. if I can't disable it I would NOT buy their service |
| [02:55:58] | phunyguy1laptop: | so I am guessing they are just worried about making the install easy so by default it is required. |
| [02:56:16] | phunyguy1laptop: | and maybe QoS |
| [02:56:21] | wagnerrp: | im in the same boat, recently had my venerable ADSL Cisco replaced by a crappy ADSL2 westell |
| [02:56:30] | phunyguy1laptop: | and gigabit is required |
| [02:56:34] | J-e-f-f-A: | Kevin` I don't use PPV though, so maybe I don't even need their router... I only use the STBs as tuners to MythTV. |
| [02:56:41] | wagnerrp: | and i can't seem to figure out how to get it working with direct bridging |
| [02:56:56] | J-e-f-f-A: | ewww.... Westell... yuck. |
| [02:57:01] | phunyguy1laptop: | they said the pipe is 50 meg for internet, and 100 meg for TV. |
| [02:57:14] | phunyguy1laptop: | 8 streams, with 6 able to do HD at once |
| [02:57:46] | ** J-e-f-f-A wouldn't beleve anything AT&T says... Just sayin' !!!! ;-) ** | |
| [02:57:52] | phunyguy1laptop: | its not AT&T |
| [02:58:03] | phunyguy1laptop: | they just use the same hardware in the house |
| [02:58:07] | Kevin`: | the only time you have a bargaining position is before you buy |
| [02:58:09] | Kevin`: | so work this stuff out |
| [02:58:21] | phunyguy1laptop: | Cisco ibt7000 or something |
| [02:58:40] | phunyguy1laptop: | it is TDS Telecom. |
| [02:59:23] | phunyguy1laptop: | isb7000 |
| [02:59:26] | phunyguy1laptop: | sorry |
| [02:59:39] | J-e-f-f-A: | kevin` The FiOS STB's just get accessed via a specific port for each box IIRC... /me logs into his router to check... |
| [03:00:11] | phunyguy1laptop: | well i can tell you right now, if they come install it, and I can't get it to work how I want it to work.... then they are coming back the very next day to remove it all. |
| [03:00:15] | phunyguy1laptop: | there is no contract. |
| [03:00:43] | phunyguy1laptop: | I've been with them since 2002 for my internet service too, so they are trustworthy |
| [03:02:36] | J-e-f-f-A: | Humm... I'm not seeing any rules – I could have sworn there were some rules to allow access to/from the STBs before... |
| [03:03:13] | J-e-f-f-A: | My router is acting as an MoCA bridge – the cable boxes only have coax attached to them, and everything else is Ethernet. |
| [03:03:50] | phunyguy1laptop: | hmmm |
| [03:04:04] | J-e-f-f-A: | This router is 'OK', except that upload bandwidth sucks – it caps off at about 22Mbps, and my connection is 35/35. I get 35Mbps+ all the time download, but only ~22Mbps upload at any given time. |
| [03:04:15] | phunyguy1laptop: | ouch |
| [03:04:23] | phunyguy1laptop: | 50/20 here |
| [03:04:27] | J-e-f-f-A: | A buddy of mine in NYC is using his own router, and gets 35+Mbps both ways. |
| [03:04:44] | phunyguy1laptop: | so you said the router has coax out? |
| [03:04:48] | phunyguy1laptop: | to the TVs? |
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| [03:04:56] | wagnerrp: | your friend goes both ways? |
| [03:05:04] | phunyguy1laptop: | do the TV boxes accept RJ45? |
| [03:05:14] | J-e-f-f-A: | phunyguy1laptop: It has both RJ45 and Coax. – I think they do have RJ45 jacks. |
| [03:05:21] | J-e-f-f-A: | wagnerrp: ha! funny – nope. ;-) |
| [03:05:29] | phunyguy1laptop: | yeah maybe COAX is the easier setup initially |
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| [03:05:40] | phunyguy1laptop: | but I have cat5e going to the ent center |
| [03:05:45] | phunyguy1laptop: | so I would probably use that |
| [03:05:59] | J-e-f-f-A: | I just did it that way because the router was FREE, and my router at the time sucked worse than the ActionTec... |
| [03:06:09] | J-e-f-f-A: | (My gigabit router had fried... D'oh!) |
| [03:06:09] | phunyguy1laptop: | V1000H? |
| [03:06:15] | J-e-f-f-A: | umm...let's see... |
| [03:06:19] | phunyguy1laptop: | or R1000? |
| [03:06:40] | J-e-f-f-A: | phunyguy1laptop: MI424WR-GEN2 |
| [03:07:18] | phunyguy1laptop: | (I have the community version of http://www.endian.com) |
| [03:07:27] | phunyguy1laptop: | and I would love to use it still. |
| [03:07:51] | phunyguy1laptop: | I guess at a minimum I would just disable routing and wireless and dhcp on the actiontec and bridge it to the endian box. |
| [03:08:00] | phunyguy1laptop: | but that is essentially the same thing as using a switch.... lol |
| [03:09:57] | J-e-f-f-A: | Or just disable the wireless on the Actiontec, and put it AFTE Rthe endian... then it would just be a bridge to the MoCA cable interface. |
| [03:10:03] | J-e-f-f-A: | *after even |
| [03:10:18] | phunyguy1laptop: | J-e-f-f-A: they said the set top box gets an external IP |
| [03:10:24] | J-e-f-f-A: | That's *if* the STB doesn't work via RJ45 |
| [03:10:28] | phunyguy1laptop: | it has a seperate speed allocation |
| [03:10:34] | J-e-f-f-A: | Humm... |
| [03:10:40] | J-e-f-f-A: | That's not the case for FiOS. |
| [03:10:53] | phunyguy1laptop: | interesting how they all do it differently |
| [03:10:54] | J-e-f-f-A: | IP is only used for PPV and on-demand stuff on FiOS. |
| [03:10:58] | phunyguy1laptop: | so you see my dilemma. |
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| [03:12:09] | J-e-f-f-A: | Well, if the Actiontec router is free, then just get it to start out with, then try swapping it out with your router. If all works, then you're fine. If not, then maybe you just hang your router off the ethernet port of the Actiontec? I dunno. ;-) |
| [03:12:51] | phunyguy1laptop: | yeah thats my thinking |
| [03:13:06] | J-e-f-f-A: | I've only had FiOS TV for about 2–1/2 years now, so only been using the Actiontec that long. Prior to that, I 'only' had 15/2 internet with my own router. |
| [03:13:11] | J-e-f-f-A: | (no coax to deal with) |
| [03:13:15] | phunyguy1laptop: | in my ideal world, I will just plug a gigabit switch into the wall outlet, and from there branch off the TV box and Endian box. |
| [03:13:39] | phunyguy1laptop: | so far this company has been exactly like that too |
| [03:13:43] | phunyguy1laptop: | no restrictions on anything |
| [03:13:49] | J-e-f-f-A: | I've seen over 100Mbps download with this router – it seems to be optimized for download speeds, but capped for upload speeds – like I said, I have yet to see > 22Mbps upload with it. |
| [03:14:25] | phunyguy1laptop: | and you could imagine my excitement when they knocked on my door saying they wanted to run fiber to my exterior wall. |
| [03:14:45] | phunyguy1laptop: | and I could help test their plant condition to make room for the rest of the neighborhood |
| [03:14:57] | phunyguy1laptop: | I was THE FIRST person in my neighborhood to get it, and it started as 25/10 |
| [03:15:08] | phunyguy1laptop: | probably the first in the city. |
| [03:15:17] | phunyguy1laptop: | (if you wanna call it a city) |
| [03:15:42] | J-e-f-f-A: | Heh... When FiOS was announced about 6–7 years ago, I was waiting for it. I was a 7-year C*mcast hater... And when I saw Verizon running Fiber in my neighborhood, I asked the tech "So you're running Fiber- how soon until I can get FiOS?" She siad "You'll have to call the central office." I had it installed the NEXT WEEK! |
| [03:15:47] | phunyguy1laptop: | I was 3m/512k before that. |
| [03:16:02] | phunyguy1laptop: | hah! nice |
| [03:16:11] | J-e-f-f-A: | That was 2005 IIRC... so 7 years ago. |
| [03:16:15] | phunyguy1laptop: | thats sweet |
| [03:16:18] | phunyguy1laptop: | 2 years ago for me |
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| [03:16:50] | J-e-f-f-A: | They didn't come out with the TV in my area until about 3 years ago – apparently had some legal battles to win first... d'oh! |
| [03:16:56] | phunyguy1laptop: | heres the weird part. inthe box outside the house it has the net jack coming out, 2 rj11 phone jacks, and a COAX jack. |
| [03:17:14] | phunyguy1laptop: | I asked about the coax jack, and they said TV was comin |
| [03:17:19] | J-e-f-f-A: | Yep, sound the same as FiOS' "Fiber Terminal" |
| [03:17:22] | phunyguy1laptop: | but now it seems that jack will go unused |
| [03:17:43] | J-e-f-f-A: | That's how FiOS delivers their TV – Coax from the Fiber Terminal. |
| [03:17:56] | J-e-f-f-A: | PPV and on-demand is the only IPTV on FiOS> |
| [03:18:12] | J-e-f-f-A: | or "Optical Network Terminal" as they call it. ;-) |
| [03:18:13] | phunyguy1laptop: | they just twisted up a single cat5e cable with 2 pairs going to the network jack in the house, and a pair each for two possible phone lines with the other half of the wires in the cat5e |
| [03:18:26] | J-e-f-f-A: | ewww... |
| [03:18:43] | phunyguy1laptop: | yeah... I am thinking of hacking that box and rerunning the cables after it is all said and done |
| [03:19:10] | phunyguy1laptop: | there is no tamper protection other than that weird screw head |
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| [03:19:38] | J-e-f-f-A: | Mine is a standard ethernet cable (8-wire, 4 pair) from the ONT to my Router. I think it's only running 100Mbps, but since my link is 35/35, I don't care. ;-) |
| [03:19:49] | phunyguy1laptop: | yeah same. |
| [03:19:56] | phunyguy1laptop: | I guess I will just go for it |
| [03:19:59] | phunyguy1laptop: | nothing to lose really |
| [03:20:06] | J-e-f-f-A: | And my 'home' phone has been on Vonage for 7+ years. |
| [03:20:13] | phunyguy1laptop: | I wil ljus wait to cancel directv until I get it right |
| [03:20:21] | phunyguy1laptop: | do you like Vonage? |
| [03:20:28] | J-e-f-f-A: | Not that *I* use it anymore – mostly bill collectors and the wife nowadays. |
| [03:20:40] | phunyguy1laptop: | lol bill collectors – I feel ya |
| [03:21:23] | phunyguy1laptop: | the same telco company as the TV and net, wants to give me unlimited home phone as well for about $30 a month, but that gives me $10 off my internet. |
| [03:21:23] | J-e-f-f-A: | I haven't had hardly any issues with Vonage – garbled calls are few & far between. It's one of those "set it & forget it" type of things – as long as you have an internt link, it 'just works'. And if your internet goes down, it forwards to a # of your choosign automatically. |
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| [03:22:07] | ** J-e-f-f-A can't type tonight – maybe because he's had a few 'Mike's Hard Fruit Punch" drinks tonight... d'oh! ;-) ** | |
| [03:22:14] | phunyguy1laptop: | so basically it will be $35 (net) + $30 (phone) and $82 (all the TV channels with HD) except premiums) |
| [03:22:32] | phunyguy1laptop: | forgot a paren |
| [03:22:35] | phunyguy1laptop: | lolz oh well |
| [03:23:30] | phunyguy1laptop: | they said about $150 for the bundle with taxes |
| [03:23:49] | J-e-f-f-A: | Heh... I pay about $130/month for 35/35 internet and every channel except HBO & Cinemax. (no 'landline phone' – Vonage is about $17/month for 500 incoming/month – never go over) |
| [03:23:50] | phunyguy1laptop: | so the cost is actually a little than vonage I think for the phone portion. |
| [03:24:20] | phunyguy1laptop: | yeah the $30 is for unlimited and it really only = $20 because of the bundle discount |
| [03:25:06] | phunyguy1laptop: | I think I will just do the standard plan though. $25 – $10 bundle discount. |
| [03:25:34] | J-e-f-f-A: | I was on the 'unlimited' vonage plan for a couple of years – but it got to be over $35/month with taxes & fees... and we hardly ever used > 500 mins/month, so I figured it was more economical to drop to the $15/month 500-min plan, and pay the occasional per-minute fee if we went over... great decision, we have gone over just once or twice in the last 2 years, and never totalled more than we were paying for the 'unl |
| [03:25:34] | J-e-f-f-A: | imited' plan. |
| [03:26:41] | phunyguy1laptop: | with all of this, I think it may be time to start looking into smart home boxes again. |
| [03:27:07] | J-e-f-f-A: | phunyguy1laptop: Anyways, I better get my arse to bed... it's 11:26pm and I've got a LONG day at work tomorrow... Best of luck, dude! ;-) ttyl! |
| [03:27:08] | phunyguy1laptop: | maybe put together a small ITX box for Endian and mount in the garage |
| [03:27:14] | phunyguy1laptop: | thanks brotha |
| [03:27:33] | J-e-f-f-A: | np... ttyl. |
| [03:32:02] | J-e-f-f-A: | phunyguy1laptop: hehe... one 'speedtest' before dropping off – on my really old desktop running XP on Athlon XP 2500+ w/1GB ram — 46.87Mbps down/17.58Mbps up. So I'm getting more than I pay for download, but limited by the router (and my old machine) upload. from my quad-core myth backend, it peaks at 22Mbps upload... (it's the Actiontec router) |
| [03:32:12] | J-e-f-f-A: | Anyways, really ttyl now. ;-) |
| [03:37:55] | k-man: | oh – .26 is released! cool |
| [03:43:55] | jafa: | J-e-f-f-A: after 5+ years there are inconsistencies in both directions |
| [03:44:38] | jafa: | i fixed the obvious ones by hand |
| [03:45:09] | jafa: | figured there might be a util to check |
| [03:45:29] | jafa: | otherwise I will do it by hand |
| [03:45:54] | jafa: | (diff between sql query results and ls results) |
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| [04:46:43] | uglyoldbob: | so my xorg.conf is as follows. http://pastebin.com/AAbfYJr8 How might I change this so each monitor is different and mythfrontend displays on one or the other? |
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| [05:07:25] | jgautier: | anyone here been able to get the infintitv 4 card to work....whenever i try to "Scan for channels" it just says "Failed to open card"? |
| [05:08:57] | wagnerrp: | dont scan for channels, pull a lineup from schedules direct |
| [05:09:57] | jgautier: | tritried that too and it just freezes |
| [05:10:00] | jgautier: | then doesnt do anything |
| [05:10:19] | jgautier: | "Starting Channel:" is stuck at "Please add channels to this source" |
| [05:10:40] | wagnerrp: | because you have no starting channels, you havent added any |
| [05:10:54] | wagnerrp: | erm, you have none to select from |
| [05:11:19] | jgautier: | shouldnt "Fetch channels from listings source" give me starting channels? |
| [05:11:40] | wagnerrp: | it should give you a channel lineup, from which you can select one as the starting channel, yes |
| [05:12:10] | jgautier: | yeah something isnt it right.... |
| [05:12:15] | jgautier: | i was able to watch TV with mplayer |
| [05:12:21] | jgautier: | by doing |
| [05:12:37] | wagnerrp: | you've set up a schedules direct account, and configured a lineup on their website? |
| [05:13:28] | jgautier: | mplayer -cache 8192 /dev/ceton/ctn91xx_mpeg0_0 |
| [05:13:35] | jgautier: | hmm no |
| [05:14:05] | wagnerrp: | mythtv requires guide data, and for anyone in north america, that comes through schedules direct |
| [05:14:25] | jgautier: | ok ill set that up |
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| [05:19:30] | jgautier: | ok i setup a schedules direct account and put it in on the video source...everythign looked to work fine...went back to input connections selected the video source |
| [05:19:32] | jgautier: | same deal |
| [05:20:04] | wagnerrp: | you put in your login information in the video source, selected the lineup from the dropdown, and told it to pull channels? |
| [05:23:19] | jgautier: | i put in the user name and password in the video source tab and said "Retrieve Lineup" a modal popped up with a progress bar |
| [05:23:23] | jgautier: | then went away |
| [05:23:33] | jgautier: | after the progress bar completed |
| [05:23:51] | jgautier: | when i start "mythbackend" from the cmd line i get |
| [05:23:52] | jgautier: | 2012-10–10 22:20:35.069541 E ChannelBase: CreateChannel() Error: Failed to open device 192.168.200.1-RTP.0 2012-10–10 22:20:35.069568 E Problem with capture cardsCard 5failed init |
| [05:24:29] | wagnerrp: | im not going to be much help diagnosing problems with that card, never used one |
| [05:24:50] | jgautier: | following these directions |
| [05:24:51] | jgautier: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Ceton_InfiniTV_4 |
| [05:24:52] | jgautier: | hmm ok |
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| [05:45:48] | Blackrain01: | Anyone home? |
| [05:49:37] | wagnerrp: | there is no one here to assist you right now, but please detail your issue after the beep and someone will assist you when available |
| [05:49:39] | wagnerrp: | BEEP! |
| [05:49:54] | xris: | wow, found an old analog tv tuner card... |
| [05:50:25] | xris: | probably from my first mythbox. heh |
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| [05:54:52] | Blackrain01: | oh hai |
| [05:55:16] | wagnerrp: | general rule of IRC chat rooms... don't ask to ask, just ask |
| [05:55:25] | wagnerrp: | if someone has an answer, they will get back to you eventually |
| [05:55:28] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [05:55:36] | Blackrain01: | I was more trying to ya know...converse |
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| [05:56:07] | Blackrain01: | Anyone here using a homerunHD? |
| [05:56:19] | wagnerrp: | HD Homerun? |
| [05:56:22] | Blackrain01: | yeah that |
| [05:56:25] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [05:56:33] | Blackrain01: | excellent! |
| [05:56:43] | Blackrain01: | Help a brotha out :) |
| [05:56:59] | Blackrain01: | So I'm setting up my first mythtv box |
| [05:57:01] | xris: | couple variations here |
| [05:57:10] | Blackrain01: | I have the HDhomerun working |
| [05:57:21] | Blackrain01: | I verified this by ya know, watching tv through WMC on my pc.... |
| [05:57:53] | xris: | which hdhr is it, btw? there are several versions |
| [05:57:59] | Blackrain01: | The channel scan came back with a bunch of funky results |
| [05:58:04] | Blackrain01: | uhhhh |
| [05:58:09] | wagnerrp: | only two that really matter |
| [05:58:22] | wagnerrp: | the one with the cablecard, and the one without the cablecard |
| [05:58:31] | Blackrain01: | cablecard |
| [05:58:34] | Blackrain01: | HDC3 |
| [05:58:37] | Blackrain01: | I believe it's called |
| [05:58:54] | Blackrain01: | 3CC |
| [05:58:56] | wagnerrp: | if you have the 3-tuner cablecard version, and you are using a cablecard, then you don't want to scan |
| [05:59:02] | wagnerrp: | pull a lineup from your schedules direct account |
| [05:59:16] | Blackrain01: | ahhhh |
| [05:59:24] | Blackrain01: | is that something I need to sign up for? |
| [05:59:30] | Blackrain01: | or something comcast is already givin me... |
| [05:59:36] | xris: | schedulesdirect.org |
| [05:59:43] | xris: | free trial membership |
| [05:59:58] | wagnerrp: | its a guide data service, licensing data from Tribune... $25/yr membership |
| [06:00:28] | Blackrain01: | sigh |
| [06:00:33] | xris: | see, calling it a service is what is going to get the IRS to deny our 501c3 application... |
| [06:00:35] | wagnerrp: | DVRs aren't much use without guide data, and comcast does not give access to their guide data to anything but their own cable boxes |
| [06:00:37] | Blackrain01: | entire goal here was to NOT pay a monthly/yearly fee |
| [06:01:05] | wagnerrp: | if you want free, you're stuck with broadcast and EIT data |
| [06:01:16] | wagnerrp: | note that most channels are only going to give you 12 hours of data |
| [06:01:26] | wagnerrp: | and its going to be poor quality and often inaccurate data |
| [06:01:41] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [06:01:50] | Blackrain01: | is that a sales speach? :p |
| [06:02:00] | xris: | Blackrain01: fwiw, sd is as cheap as we can make it (it's a nonprofit run by me and a few other mythtv community folks) |
| [06:02:01] | wagnerrp: | nope, just reality |
| [06:02:16] | wagnerrp: | and some people in the XMLTV community |
| [06:02:32] | wagnerrp: | its primarily mythtv, but not only mythtv |
| [06:02:38] | Blackrain01: | @xirs – It's cool bro, I get it. Everyone needs to make a buck/pay for their services |
| [06:02:59] | wagnerrp: | schedules direct doesn't make anything (its a nonprofit) |
| [06:03:13] | wagnerrp: | the membership dues are just to allow them to license the guide data from Tribune |
| [06:03:13] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [06:03:24] | Blackrain01: | You know what I mean |
| [06:03:27] | xris: | you can blame a bunch of big companies for that. TMS used to give the stuff away for free to mythtv users, but a bunch of companies abused it and TMS didn't really have a way to block them |
| [06:03:57] | slickrick: | J-e-f-f-A: thanks for udev rules for the pvr500 cards. |
| [06:04:14] | Blackrain01: | alright so let me ask a question, without starting a flame war |
| [06:04:42] | Blackrain01: | WMC setup in 5 minutes, and I have the guide there. So what is mythtv going to give me that it doesn't? |
| [06:04:50] | xris: | fwiw there's a good page on the mythtv wiki to set up the cablecard hdhr |
| [06:04:56] | wagnerrp: | ability to do whatever you want with your recordings |
| [06:05:10] | wagnerrp: | ability to cluster multiple machines together for access to those recordings |
| [06:05:15] | xris: | commercial skipping is the big win for me. |
| [06:05:15] | Blackrain01: | Xris – The cableCARD is working properly, so I'm good there |
| [06:05:20] | Blackrain01: | and yeah that page helped |
| [06:05:26] | xris: | Blackrain01: but the cablecard hdhr is not... |
| [06:05:35] | xris: | it's a howto to get it all hooked into mythtv. |
| [06:05:39] | slickrick: | xris: i love commercial skip. |
| [06:05:43] | wagnerrp: | note that MythTV is not licensed by Cable Labs to use cablecard devices |
| [06:05:58] | xris: | wow, found an old analog tv tuner card. |
| [06:06:00] | wagnerrp: | that means your HDHR is going to limit mythtv to only those shows marked "copy freely" |
| [06:06:06] | xris: | oops. stupid copy/paste. |
| [06:06:11] | xris: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Silicondust_HDHomeRun_Prime |
| [06:06:21] | wagnerrp: | on comcast, that's generally everything but the premium channels |
| [06:07:06] | xris: | wagnerrp: rmeden (xmltv maintainer) found out his cableco has *everything* set to be watch-once, even stuff like cspan. he launched an fcc complaint. |
| [06:07:19] | xris: | he could barely even use it with windows media center |
| [06:07:21] | wagnerrp: | what provider? |
| [06:07:29] | xris: | not sure. dallas, tx area |
| [06:07:37] | wagnerrp: | probably TW |
| [06:07:41] | Blackrain01: | that's dirty |
| [06:07:44] | Blackrain01: | alright let me signup for this free trial |
| [06:08:15] | xris: | Blackrain01: yeah. hence the fcc complaint. but by the time it gets resolved, it's not even worth keeping the hardware. he still uses an analog replaytv. |
| [06:08:24] | Blackrain01: | omg |
| [06:08:28] | wagnerrp: | hahahah |
| [06:08:29] | Blackrain01: | ITS NOT REOCCURING!? |
| [06:08:36] | Blackrain01: | I <3 you for that |
| [06:08:40] | wagnerrp: | the thing even still has a viable hard drive? |
| [06:08:41] | xris: | Blackrain01: huh? |
| [06:08:47] | Blackrain01: | the 25$ / year |
| [06:08:52] | Blackrain01: | I hate that autocharge crap |
| [06:09:15] | xris: | oh, yeah. no autocharge. people hate it, and it was too much work to set it up. |
| [06:09:26] | xris: | back when we wrote the software, we didn't even know if SD would be able to stay alive. |
| [06:09:51] | xris: | (which is still the case — likely to lose our nonprofit status this year because of IRS politics) |
| [06:10:11] | wagnerrp: | lose? or get told you never had? |
| [06:10:16] | xris: | both. |
| [06:10:28] | wagnerrp: | that's going to hurt |
| [06:10:29] | xris: | lots of back taxes and penalties. |
| [06:10:38] | xris: | yeah. accountant estimated about $200k |
| [06:11:24] | wagnerrp: | no way around the penalties, since it's their fault for dicking around with the application for six years? |
| [06:11:31] | wagnerrp: | five? |
| [06:11:37] | xris: | should be able to get them lessened. |
| [06:11:40] | xris: | july 2007 |
| [06:11:40] | Blackrain01: | I don't understand |
| [06:11:43] | slickrick: | would there be enough sd users to help make up the shortfall? i'd be willing to pay more. |
| [06:11:47] | Blackrain01: | why wouldn't you get NFP status? |
| [06:12:50] | xris: | slickrick: we've been building up a buffer just in case. money we'd rather have spent on community stuff, but c'est la vie. |
| [06:13:13] | slickrick: | xris: that sucks ... i had no idea SD was running into these issues. |
| [06:14:32] | slickrick: | well i for one would be happy to pay more to keep it alive. $25 is nothing for the service, and i would not even blink if it was $50 a year. |
| [06:14:36] | xris: | Blackrain01: 2 reasons. the main one is that there's a political movement inside the IRS has it out for open source software in general (they see big companies making money on "free" software). the other is that SD looks like it's just a subscription service (mostly because we haven't been able to do much giving back because we don't have our charitable status). and even if we *did* give back to the community, it'd be the FOSS community, which g |
| [06:14:37] | xris: | back to the first reason. |
| [06:15:16] | Blackrain01: | FOSS? |
| [06:15:18] | wagnerrp: | nothing like a good ol' catch 22 |
| [06:15:20] | xris: | slickrick: we hated to raise the rate to $25, but that was only done because user numbers have been declining (economy and the shift to digital cable are mostly to blame) |
| [06:15:23] | xris: | free open source software |
| [06:15:24] | wagnerrp: | free open source software |
| [06:15:27] | wagnerrp: | bah |
| [06:15:28] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [06:15:30] | Blackrain01: | I should know that.... |
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| [06:15:48] | wagnerrp: | any way for the members to write in petitions on SD's behalf? |
| [06:16:01] | Blackrain01: | Well I see the issue |
| [06:16:07] | Blackrain01: | You need to change your website terms |
| [06:16:07] | xris: | slickrick: and we suspect there are still a large number of users who have found the not-legal free way to get guide data. |
| [06:16:15] | xris: | wagnerrp: not at this point. |
| [06:16:40] | Blackrain01: | See, you need to have your memebers give a 'donation' |
| [06:16:50] | xris: | we've gone over it several times with the IRS. right now we're jsut waiting to hear back, but they're not even replying to our lawyer's requests for status updates (we should have heard back in may) |
| [06:17:08] | xris: | Blackrain01: technically, it's a program fee.. like buying a membership to a community theatre |
| [06:17:09] | wagnerrp: | (of 2008) |
| [06:17:26] | xris: | or donating to pbs and getting a t-shirt for thanks. |
| [06:17:30] | slickrick: | xris: out of curiosity, what is the not-legal way? |
| [06:17:40] | Blackrain01: | speaking of SD |
| [06:17:42] | Blackrain01: | So I signed up |
| [06:17:45] | Blackrain01: | payed my 25 bucks |
| [06:17:47] | Blackrain01: | paied |
| [06:17:48] | Blackrain01: | paid |
| [06:17:52] | wagnerrp: | there's some application that illegally accesses microsoft's WMC feed |
| [06:17:56] | Blackrain01: | added my lineup....but it's not pulling it |
| [06:17:59] | slickrick: | ah, i see. |
| [06:18:04] | xris: | I won't mention it by name.. but there's an app out there that uses a back door to microsoft…… what wagnerrp said. :) |
| [06:18:38] | wagnerrp: | WMC and SD have been somewhat apathetically fighting them ever since zap2it stopped providing free data |
| [06:18:51] | slickrick: | sounds like that would entail running windows, so $25 is worth it to avoid windows. =] |
| [06:19:04] | xris: | TMS did finally meet with MS and ask about it last year… say they can't track the guy down. |
| [06:19:12] | xris: | except that his websites have paypal links. |
| [06:19:31] | wagnerrp: | well you know the standard cop-drama trope... follow the money |
| [06:19:49] | xris: | wagnerrp: made more complicated by him likely being canadian. jurisdiction mess. |
| [06:19:59] | xris: | damn, all this typing and I keep forgetting to go get a beer. |
| [06:20:21] | wagnerrp: | anyway, if it required you ran windows and grabbed the data out of WMC's database, it would probably be perfectly legitimate |
| [06:20:22] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [06:20:36] | Blackrain01: | that's what I was saying |
| [06:20:43] | Blackrain01: | I HAVE the data in my wmc on my pc right now |
| [06:20:43] | wagnerrp: | but it doesn't do that, it masquerades itself as WMC, and accesses their feed directly |
| [06:20:56] | wagnerrp: | hence... illegal computer fraud |
| [06:21:04] | Blackrain01: | eh..... |
| [06:21:06] | Blackrain01: | that's a line |
| [06:21:13] | Blackrain01: | if the feed is available on the web |
| [06:21:19] | Blackrain01: | without any form of auth.... |
| [06:21:25] | wagnerrp: | yeah, probably |
| [06:21:32] | Blackrain01: | it's not fraud to access a website... |
| [06:21:36] | xris: | Blackrain01: I think there are other apps that let you extract legit stuff from WMC and convert it. but it's all manual. |
| [06:21:41] | wagnerrp: | no, its not a website |
| [06:21:44] | Blackrain01: | what's the difference between port 80 and port 22933 |
| [06:21:46] | wagnerrp: | it doesn't scrape some web page |
| [06:22:02] | wagnerrp: | it pulls a formatted data feed |
| [06:22:10] | Blackrain01: | well |
| [06:22:16] | wagnerrp: | and even still webpage scraping is generally against the site's TOS |
| [06:22:36] | Blackrain01: | I'm in the video source setup right now |
| [06:22:42] | Blackrain01: | I click "retrieve lineups" |
| [06:22:44] | Blackrain01: | and nohting comes back |
| [06:22:47] | Blackrain01: | is there a delay? |
| [06:22:52] | wagnerrp: | you gave it your login information? |
| [06:22:54] | xris: | Blackrain01: not criminally illegal. but a violation of terms, and with APIs and keys to deal with, it could fall under hacking or computer fraud, especially if ssl is involved. |
| [06:23:00] | Blackrain01: | yes wang |
| [06:23:06] | xris: | Blackrain01: you set up a lineup on sd? |
| [06:23:12] | Blackrain01: | I did |
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| [06:24:19] | xris: | should be immediate. |
| [06:24:28] | Blackrain01: | ok.... |
| [06:24:29] | xris: | there'd be a banner on the SD website if TMS was havng issues |
| [06:24:32] | slickrick: | i just read an article about it and they said the downside to schedules direct is that it needs a subscription. *face palm* |
| [06:24:48] | wagnerrp: | this part is outside my area... havent had to do that task in probably four years |
| [06:24:58] | Blackrain01: | I see the lineup in my account... |
| [06:25:20] | xris: | slickrick: the idea behind SD was to take in ever so slightly more than we needed to operate (and build up a buffer if there was ever a user slump) and then start giving out grants to projects like mythtv |
| [06:26:14] | xris: | damn, I can't remember the URL that gives you a 1-hour snapshot of the tms feed. |
| [06:26:46] | Blackrain01: | THERE WE GO |
| [06:26:51] | Blackrain01: | I had to uncheck "perform EIT scan" |
| [06:28:01] | slickrick: | the author of it admits in the comments: "schedules direct also works more consistently than this." |
| [06:28:22] | slickrick: | more consistent meaning all the time? i have never had a problem with sd and i've been using it since it's inception. |
| [06:28:50] | Blackrain01: | honestly |
| [06:28:58] | Blackrain01: | I think all of this goes bye bye once googletv is up |
| [06:29:12] | wagnerrp: | google tv was never designed as a DVR |
| [06:29:19] | Blackrain01: | uhhh |
| [06:29:19] | xris: | slickrick: SD users are probably responsible for 80–90% of TMS data corrections.. robert kulagowski earns every penny we pay him for doing user support (and we don't pay him nearly enough) |
| [06:29:35] | Blackrain01: | http://fiber.google.com/about/ |
| [06:29:37] | wizbit: | Blackrain01: you wish |
| [06:29:39] | Blackrain01: | that |
| [06:30:00] | wagnerrp: | are you not talking about those googletv devices that hit the market a few years back? |
| [06:30:02] | wizbit: | my life will not be dominated by google, no way |
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| [06:30:31] | Blackrain01: | I'm talking about 1gigbit fiber to your door, tv, 2tb dvr, 'free tablet', etc ,etc |
| [06:30:33] | Blackrain01: | 120 a month |
| [06:31:01] | wagnerrp: | oh, so IPTV with caching |
| [06:31:02] | Blackrain01: | kinda hard to beat |
| [06:31:10] | Blackrain01: | or |
| [06:31:17] | Blackrain01: | 300 bucks, and free internet for min 7 years |
| [06:31:18] | slickrick: | 2tb dvr? yawn ... my has 12tb. |
| [06:31:23] | slickrick: | er, *mine* |
| [06:31:32] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [06:31:35] | Blackrain01: | *eye roll* |
| [06:31:42] | Blackrain01: | omg your dick, it's so big :p |
| [06:31:52] | slickrick: | thats what she said, |
| [06:31:59] | Blackrain01: | kinda about the gigabit internet dude |
| [06:32:04] | Blackrain01: | or 5mb down, 1mb up for free |
| [06:32:05] | wagnerrp: | no, it's exactly the size he wants it, not merely the size someone is willing to sell it |
| [06:32:40] | slickrick: | but seriously .. one reason i use mythtv instead of some cableco solution is sheer space. i sometimes record entire seasons and we watch them in the summer... not like those wimpy 500gb pvrs from the local cableco. |
| [06:32:52] | wagnerrp: | that's always been the advantage of an HTPC over a prefab solution |
| [06:32:58] | Blackrain01: | do I have to 'fetch tv listings' for each input source? |
| [06:33:16] | wagnerrp: | presumably you only have the one source digital cable |
| [06:33:27] | Blackrain01: | I mean under input connections |
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| [06:33:42] | wagnerrp: | you merely need to populate a source once |
| [06:33:51] | wagnerrp: | and then that source can be tied to as many tuners as you wish |
| [06:34:16] | wagnerrp: | do note that the HDHR will show up as three independent devices, so you need to manually add each tuner to mythtv |
| [06:34:24] | Blackrain01: | yup |
| [06:34:25] | Blackrain01: | did that |
| [06:34:27] | wagnerrp: | ok |
| [06:34:39] | Blackrain01: | thanks btw, for the help here |
| [06:34:44] | Blackrain01: | was driving me nuts |
| [06:35:06] | Blackrain01: | this is my first htpc |
| [06:35:09] | Blackrain01: | so I only did 2TB |
| [06:35:18] | Blackrain01: | I also don't currently have HD tv, cause I really don't watch that much |
| [06:35:35] | Blackrain01: | mine is more for the freedom to be in every room, and not pay comcast 16 bucks a month for a stupid dvr |
| [06:35:40] | wagnerrp: | well it's expandable to your needs, that's the whole point of an HTPC |
| [06:35:47] | Blackrain01: | true true |
| [06:35:54] | wagnerrp: | do you just have the one hard drive? or do you have a separate system disk? |
| [06:35:56] | Blackrain01: | I built a frontend/backend box though |
| [06:36:08] | Blackrain01: | I have 2 1TB disks |
| [06:36:12] | Blackrain01: | did a 5GB root, 2 gb swap |
| [06:36:17] | Blackrain01: | the rest of it is in lvm |
| [06:36:25] | Blackrain01: | so I can slap more disks in later if I feel like it |
| [06:36:28] | wagnerrp: | can you undo that? |
| [06:36:33] | Blackrain01: | .... |
| [06:36:35] | Blackrain01: | why would I undo that? |
| [06:36:42] | wagnerrp: | because you dont need lvm |
| [06:36:45] | xris: | btw, if any of you ever want to test your sd connection.. after logging in, go to https://www.schedulesdirect.org/getdata and it'll give you a small sample of data from your feed |
| [06:36:59] | Blackrain01: | everyone...needs lvm :P |
| [06:37:00] | wagnerrp: | just give mythtv all available storage directories, and it will load balance between them |
| [06:37:08] | wagnerrp: | no reason to span the disks |
| [06:37:24] | wagnerrp: | mythtv is not limited to a single recording directory |
| [06:37:31] | Blackrain01: | eh |
| [06:37:32] | Blackrain01: | it's cleaner |
| [06:37:53] | wagnerrp: | not really, everything just gets dumped into the root of the recording directory |
| [06:37:55] | wagnerrp: | nothing clean about that |
| [06:38:03] | slickrick: | wagnerrp: would you recommend multiple directories over using mdadm too? (drive failure aside...) |
| [06:38:18] | Blackrain01: | well |
| [06:38:21] | Blackrain01: | lets say |
| [06:38:26] | Blackrain01: | I start doing something else with the box |
| [06:38:27] | Blackrain01: | like |
| [06:38:34] | Blackrain01: | housing a bunch of perl code |
| [06:38:36] | wagnerrp: | if you're using mdadm for recovery, thats up to you |
| [06:38:40] | Blackrain01: | and I decide I want 10gb for that |
| [06:38:46] | Blackrain01: | I can make that happen |
| [06:38:52] | wagnerrp: | if you're using mdadm for speed, you're better off with independent filesystems |
| [06:38:53] | Blackrain01: | I only gave 1.5tb to myth |
| [06:39:03] | Blackrain01: | the rest is in holding until later |
| [06:39:27] | wagnerrp: | so leave them independent disks, and tell mythtv you want to keep a hundred GB or so free |
| [06:39:41] | wagnerrp: | mythtv will automatically expire old recordings to maintain free space for other uses |
| [06:40:10] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [06:40:14] | Blackrain01: | it's already done and configured dude |
| [06:40:18] | xris: | wagnerrp: unless you have a child who won't let anything autoexpire. |
| [06:40:26] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [06:40:40] | Blackrain01: | it's not like setting up lvm took effort |
| [06:40:41] | wagnerrp: | Blackrain01: the issue is that both mythtv and mysql cause heavy seek loads during use |
| [06:40:56] | xris: | mysql shouldn't do that if it's properly tuned |
| [06:41:03] | wagnerrp: | and when you tie everything into a single array, you only have the seek performance of a single disk |
| [06:41:14] | Blackrain01: | .... |
| [06:41:16] | wagnerrp: | from a performance standpoint, its better to keep them independent |
| [06:41:23] | Blackrain01: | that's not how lvm works |
| [06:41:31] | wagnerrp: | or, pick up a small SSD to use as your system disk |
| [06:41:41] | wagnerrp: | or some other spare drive you have lying about |
| [06:42:00] | xris: | wagnerrp: fwiw I run mythtv off of an 80G raid1 partition. with the rest of each disk formatted independently. |
| [06:42:02] | wagnerrp: | basically, it's just preferred to have your database somewhere other than where you are recording |
| [06:42:06] | xris: | there's no problem with speed. |
| [06:42:19] | Blackrain01: | eh |
| [06:42:27] | Blackrain01: | 3gb/second sata drives should be able to handle it |
| [06:42:43] | wagnerrp: | not with modern linux kernels with barries enabled |
| [06:42:49] | xris: | I could record straight to my NAS if I wanted to. may have to do that if my wife won't let me start deleting some kids shows. :) |
| [06:42:58] | Blackrain01: | lol xris |
| [06:43:04] | wagnerrp: | since you're not talking the 3gbps interface bandwidth, youre talking the ~1gbps platter throughput |
| [06:43:29] | wagnerrp: | and even then, the linear throughput is being crippled by constantly reseeking for multiple independent writes |
| [06:44:08] | Blackrain01: | I've started a nerd war! |
| [06:44:36] | wagnerrp: | im just saying it might cause you trouble down the line |
| [06:44:47] | wagnerrp: | and since you dont have anything stored, easier to make a change now |
| [06:44:53] | Blackrain01: | I'll keep it in mind |
| [06:45:21] | Blackrain01: | mythfilldatabase takes forever |
| [06:45:52] | wagnerrp: | well figure you've got two weeks of data for several hundred channels |
| [06:46:07] | Blackrain01: | yeah but.... |
| [06:46:08] | wagnerrp: | and you're running against a mysql database with horrible stock settings |
| [06:46:20] | Blackrain01: | it could ya know |
| [06:46:24] | wagnerrp: | getting back to xris's mention of "properly tuned" |
| [06:46:34] | Blackrain01: | run stuff in parallel |
| [06:46:38] | slickrick: | and you're watching the pot boil which slows it down too.... |
| [06:46:42] | Blackrain01: | rofl |
| [06:46:52] | Blackrain01: | any mysql settings you'd recommend changing? |
| [06:46:58] | Blackrain01: | and/or have a guide to link me to |
| [06:47:08] | wagnerrp: | it's loading everything into a temporary table, which should ideally happen fairly quickly |
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| [06:47:14] | wagnerrp: | actually, hold on a second |
| [06:47:23] | wagnerrp: | what did you run? just 'mythfilldatabase'? |
| [06:47:38] | wagnerrp: | better to do 'mythfilldatabase --dd-grab-all' |
| [06:47:53] | wagnerrp: | does it all in one shot, rather than a day at a time |
| [06:48:06] | xris: | Blackrain01: was going to pastebin my my.cnf file but apparently it got reset to defaults after some recent system restore… so I don't have anything to help |
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| [06:51:01] | Blackrain01: | well |
| [06:51:04] | Blackrain01: | I went into the control panel |
| [06:51:07] | xris: | yeah, even my server's my.cnf doesn't have anything helpful. I've been out of ops-land for too long. getting lazy. kormoc is the expert. |
| [06:51:16] | Blackrain01: | and checked a couple of the boxes for 'tweaks' and 'optimize' |
| [06:51:21] | xris: | control panel? |
| [06:51:35] | Blackrain01: | Control centre |
| [06:51:38] | Blackrain01: | same thing |
| [06:51:54] | Blackrain01: | it's part of mythbuntu |
| [06:51:58] | xris: | mysql doesn't have a control panel. ;) newfangled whooza-whatzits. heh |
| [06:52:10] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [06:52:19] | wagnerrp: | basically, the issue is that everything is getting loaded into a temporary table, and then that temporary table is flushed on top of the guide tables |
| [06:52:36] | xris: | wagnerrp: there's a config option to run grab-all all the time, no? |
| [06:52:45] | xris: | us SD folks have been begging for it to be the default for ages. |
| [06:52:46] | Blackrain01: | how the hell |
| [06:52:50] | wagnerrp: | if everything works to plan, that temporary table stays in memory and is very fast, and then the single flush is again very fast |
| [06:52:50] | Blackrain01: | did it find 630 channels |
| [06:52:56] | Blackrain01: | I don't have that many |
| [06:53:27] | wagnerrp: | in practice, you overflow the bounds of the memory limits imposed by the stock configuration, causing it to buffer to disk |
| [06:53:35] | xris: | WAY too many customer complaints come from mythtv not grabbing up-to-date data every day. tms fixes things but users don't see it until a day or two before it airs. plenty of time to submit a ton of incorrect-data tickets. |
| [06:53:40] | wagnerrp: | and now you've got several million inserts being atomically written to disk |
| [06:53:50] | xris: | Blackrain01: lots of radio channels? |
| [06:53:56] | Blackrain01: | lolol |
| [06:54:06] | wagnerrp: | xris: you have to configure mfd to use --dd-grab-all in mythtv-setup |
| [06:54:22] | wagnerrp: | you have to edit the command line directly, there is no toggle button |
| [06:54:44] | wagnerrp: | Blackrain01: that's everything comcast has available |
| [06:54:59] | wagnerrp: | ideally you cull your lineup on the SD website to only those channels you're actually subscribing to |
| [06:55:12] | xris: | ah, yeah.. Blackrain01, you can go into sd and uncheck channels you don't want. or just make them invisible to mythtv, too. |
| [06:55:13] | wagnerrp: | just click on a channel on the SD website to toggle it |
| [06:55:24] | wagnerrp: | the lineup should get refreshed on the next MFD run |
| [06:55:38] | Blackrain01: | yeah I just did the unchecking of a bunch of crap |
| [06:56:24] | wagnerrp: | they often carry SD simulcasts of the 60–70 "extended" channels |
| [06:56:36] | wagnerrp: | on my carrier, it's everything <100 |
| [06:57:01] | wagnerrp: | no sense keeping them around |
| [06:57:23] | xris: | Blackrain01: you can shift-click to check ranges, too. |
| [06:57:38] | Blackrain01: | yeah I just don't know what I have |
| [06:57:39] | Blackrain01: | ya know? |
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| [06:58:10] | wagnerrp: | xris: might be something you want to read... http://www.mythtvtalk.com/mythbuntu-12-04-una . . . 0/#post60760 |
| [06:58:32] | xris: | Blackrain01: yeah, I know how that is. it's even worse when the lineup changes but there's no human-discernable change. |
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| [06:58:44] | xris: | tms changes a few IDs around and random channels break. |
| [06:58:45] | Blackrain01: | sigh |
| [06:58:47] | Blackrain01: | ok so that's all done |
| [06:58:51] | Blackrain01: | I click watch tv |
| [06:58:53] | xris: | that only happens every couple of years, though |
| [06:58:54] | Blackrain01: | please wait: then nothing |
| [06:59:25] | wagnerrp: | make sure you've selected a starting channel, make sure storage is defined, make sure the user running mythbackend has write permission to storage, make sure the backend is running |
| [06:59:30] | xris: | wagnerrp: I think you're talking directly to TMS at that point. |
| [06:59:42] | wagnerrp: | if everything else looks correct, check your backend logs |
| [06:59:57] | wagnerrp: | i believe mythbuntu dumps them to /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log |
| [07:00:11] | wagnerrp: | feel free to put them on some pastebin if you don't find anything in them |
| [07:05:03] | Blackrain01: | o m g |
| [07:05:04] | Blackrain01: | tv |
| [07:05:07] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [07:06:13] | Blackrain01: | now.... |
| [07:06:19] | Blackrain01: | to get the sound to feed to my tv through the hdmi cable.... |
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| [07:15:52] | xris: | ok, more beer. |
| [07:15:59] | toeb: | Blackrain01: choose the hdmi output in the audio settings... |
| [07:17:28] | Blackrain01: | yeah did that |
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| [07:24:08] | Blackrain01: | none of the tests work either |
| [07:24:09] | Blackrain01: | hrmmm |
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| [07:28:02] | slickrick: | did i see you were running mythbuntu? |
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| [07:29:58] | toeb: | Blackrain01: i had to en/disable one of the advanced audio settings to get mythmusic to play audio.. did you play with those? |
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| [07:30:48] | xris: | I always have to remove /etc/asound.conf |
| [07:30:49] | Blackrain01: | Right now I'm using aplay |
| [07:30:51] | xris: | but I'm not using hdmi audio |
| [07:31:04] | Blackrain01: | just to ya know hear something through the speakers |
| [07:31:06] | Blackrain01: | but I'm not hearing anything |
| [07:31:08] | slickrick: | Blackrain01: mythbuntu 12.04? |
| [07:31:16] | Blackrain01: | if that's the latest |
| [07:31:24] | slickrick: | should be. |
| [07:31:27] | slickrick: | install pavucontrol |
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| [07:31:33] | Blackrain01: | gigabyte MB |
| [07:31:50] | slickrick: | run it, and then check what the output device is set to on the output devices tab. |
| [07:31:59] | Blackrain01: | apting it now |
| [07:32:34] | slickrick: | went through this on the weekend rebuilding my nfsroot frontends... in the end i just ditched pulse audio completely tho. |
| [07:33:31] | Blackrain01: | pav shows HDMI / Displayport |
| [07:34:28] | xris: | everything I've heard (no pun intended) says that pulse is just awful. |
| [07:34:54] | slickrick: | well for a desktop it can be nice, but not front a myth frontend. |
| [07:34:56] | wagnerrp: | it's not so much that it's awful, just completely unnecessary for most users |
| [07:35:50] | slickrick: | Blackrain01: if you click on the volume control and open sound settings and go to the sound effects tab and click on the alert sounds can you hear them?> |
| [07:36:05] | wagnerrp: | and due to certain operating principles, it has some behavior that is very much not ideal for mythtv's needs |
| [07:36:34] | Blackrain01: | slick, I don't even see volume controls |
| [07:36:43] | slickrick: | sec, let me figure out what the command is. |
| [07:37:16] | slickrick: | i think 'gnome-control-center sound' should open them. |
| [07:37:45] | Blackrain01: | more apting |
| [07:37:46] | slickrick: | i forget what interface mythbuntu uses, but you should also be able to click on the speaker icon and there is a sound settings option there to open them as well. |
| [07:38:25] | wagnerrp: | xfce |
| [07:38:33] | slickrick: | ah. |
| [07:38:43] | slickrick: | so don't install that. |
| [07:38:50] | slickrick: | does anything play sound, i mean outside of mythtv? |
| [07:39:22] | wagnerrp: | sure, using either hardware mixers in the sound card, or dmix |
| [07:39:28] | xris: | I used gnome for years.. but yeah, 3 made me switch to xfce |
| [07:39:48] | slickrick: | i use openbox on my frontends, i think its even leaner than xfce. |
| [07:39:58] | Blackrain01: | no man |
| [07:40:00] | Blackrain01: | nothing comes out |
| [07:40:03] | slickrick: | ok. |
| [07:40:05] | Blackrain01: | using gnome-control now |
| [07:40:20] | Blackrain01: | RS880 HDMI audio radeon HD 4200 series |
| [07:40:23] | Blackrain01: | is the card |
| [07:40:36] | slickrick: | i double the alert sounds will make any noise then .. .that was just a quick way to create some sounds to see if you hear 'em. |
| [07:40:47] | wagnerrp: | oof... you're much better off going nvidia |
| [07:40:58] | wagnerrp: | ATI and linux don't really mix |
| [07:41:07] | slickrick: | agreed. |
| [07:41:10] | Blackrain01: | .... |
| [07:41:20] | xris: | driver support. |
| [07:41:24] | Blackrain01: | lets come up with a solution that doesn't involve throwing out my mobo? |
| [07:41:32] | Blackrain01: | and my proc |
| [07:41:33] | xris: | nvidia actually puts out a decent (though non-open) driver |
| [07:41:36] | wagnerrp: | discrete nvidia card? |
| [07:41:51] | xris: | $20 card these days would do it. |
| [07:41:54] | slickrick: | try using alsamixer to make sure the channels aren't muted. |
| [07:41:58] | slickrick: | check out http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Configuring_Digita . . . C3_and_SPDIF |
| [07:42:00] | Blackrain01: | did that |
| [07:42:04] | Blackrain01: | they aren't, but they show up 00 |
| [07:42:12] | xris: | Blackrain01: you could always do what I do and just use dvi->hdmi adapter and analog audio input. |
| [07:43:39] | slickrick: | Blackrain01: that should be right then, as longas they don't say [off] in the top left where it says Item: |
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| [07:44:10] | slickrick: | they are MM when muted/off and 00 in green when on. and you did that for all of them? |
| [07:45:32] | Blackrain01: | yeah super green |
| [07:45:45] | slickrick: | hm. |
| [07:46:57] | xris: | ok, time to crash. |
| [07:47:28] | Blackrain01: | night xris |
| [07:47:31] | Blackrain01: | thanks for your help bro |
| [07:47:48] | slickrick: | cya xris |
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| [07:48:43] | slickrick: | wait wait wait ... |
| [07:48:48] | slickrick: | you have the ATI drivers right? |
| [07:49:28] | slickrick: | the proprietary ones. |
| [07:50:21] | slickrick: | might help http://voices.canonical.com/david.henningsson . . . buntu-12-04/ |
| [07:56:51] | slickrick: | i notice there is one comment there and the guys says you don't need them with the included ati/nvidia drivers in recent kernels, but that is contrary to my experience with the nouveau driver on 12.04. |
| [07:57:19] | slickrick: | he does say you need the kernel option radeon.audio=1, so you might want to try that before you try the ati drivers. |
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| [08:10:31] | Blackrain01: | IT WORKS |
| [08:10:41] | Blackrain01: | rofl |
| [08:10:47] | Blackrain01: | man I had that minmized |
| [08:10:54] | Blackrain01: | found the same thing you did in google |
| [08:10:59] | slickrick: | rad. |
| [08:11:12] | slickrick: | so its working with the ubuntu driver then? |
| [08:11:13] | Blackrain01: | added radeon.audio=1 to /etc/default/grub |
| [08:11:15] | Blackrain01: | update-grub |
| [08:11:16] | Blackrain01: | bam |
| [08:11:17] | slickrick: | nice. |
| [08:11:27] | Blackrain01: | keep that one under your hat |
| [08:11:27] | slickrick: | audio over hdmi is nice. |
| [08:11:28] | Blackrain01: | rofl |
| [08:11:31] | Blackrain01: | yeah it is |
| [08:11:34] | Blackrain01: | and now |
| [08:11:36] | Blackrain01: | FINALLY |
| [08:11:39] | Blackrain01: | my myth tv is working |
| [08:14:19] | Blackrain01: | as is mythmote from my phone |
| [08:14:36] | Blackrain01: | anyway to adjust the resolution? |
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| [08:15:15] | wagnerrp: | change X's resolution |
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| [08:17:01] | Blackrain01: | well crap |
| [08:17:03] | Blackrain01: | lol |
| [08:17:11] | wagnerrp: | ? |
| [08:17:18] | Blackrain01: | messed it up |
| [08:17:22] | Blackrain01: | now I can't see half the windwos |
| [08:18:00] | wagnerrp: | what windows? |
| [08:18:09] | Blackrain01: | frontend |
| [08:18:16] | wagnerrp: | there's only the one window |
| [08:18:24] | Blackrain01: | yeah |
| [08:18:27] | Blackrain01: | it's the wrong size now |
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| [08:18:43] | wagnerrp: | its full screen, whatever your X server is running |
| [08:20:00] | Blackrain01: | yeah I messed with the aspect ratio |
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| [08:20:35] | Blackrain01: | you know a way to fix that via command line? |
| [08:21:36] | wagnerrp: | i dont know what you changed |
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| [08:22:12] | wagnerrp: | what aspect ratio? during playback? are you talking about letter/pillar boxing? |
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| [08:23:39] | Blackrain01: | sec |
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| [08:38:44] | Blackrain01: | I got it resolved |
| [08:38:49] | Blackrain01: | :D |
| [08:38:50] | Blackrain01: | and now |
| [08:38:53] | Blackrain01: | SLEEP |
| [08:39:01] | Blackrain01: | good night sir, and thanks much for your assistance |
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| [13:16:38] | IReboot: | jm|laptop: I have something for you to try with your problem recording files. The ones that mkvmerge cannot handle. It will not solve the issue but will at least indicate if there may be another way to perform the lossless cuts. I will PM you what I need you try. |
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| [13:30:20] | jm|laptop: | IReboot: hello. I'm sort of here :) |
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| [13:30:53] | IReboot: | jm|laptop: I already PMed you just try it when you have time. |
| [13:32:17] | jm|laptop: | so you did |
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| [13:35:44] | jm|laptop: | -bash: avconv: command not found |
| [13:35:45] | jm|laptop: | :( |
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| [13:36:17] | ** jm|laptop considers an out-of-stream compile ** | |
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| [16:35:03] | jm|laptop: | hello |
| [16:35:04] | jm|laptop: | Error(MythTV python bindings could not be imported, error(MythTV backend connection attempt, error(Failed to connect to backend at ::1:6543))) |
| [16:35:19] | jm|laptop: | where do I tell the bindings that the backend is remote to me? Rather than at ::1 ? |
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| [16:49:32] | wagnerrp: | you typically dont |
| [16:49:50] | wagnerrp: | the bindings discover the backend on their own through the database |
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| [16:50:57] | wagnerrp: | jm|laptop: what specifically are you trying to do? |
| [16:51:15] | wagnerrp: | any chance for a proper backtrace? |
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| [17:12:25] | jm|laptop: | sorry |
| [17:14:38] | jm|laptop: | wagnerrp: I am trying to connect from a remote client to the database. Is my mysql.txt awry, perhaps |
| [17:17:10] | jm|laptop: | 2>&1 >/dev/null | grep No\ such\ file\ or\ directory -c |
| [17:17:10] | jm|laptop: | 2825 |
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| [17:18:06] | jm|laptop: | using the right PYTHONPATH seems to have helped :/ |
| [17:20:31] | jm|laptop: | ImportError: No module named MythTV.static |
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| [18:43:44] | ** ertyu-w still has a hard time picking a cpu for a new myth system ** | |
| [18:44:29] | ertyu-w: | intel dual core ivy bridge (g2120), amd 6 core fx 6100, amd 4 core athlon II 955 all at similar prices |
| [18:44:43] | ertyu-w: | does the IPC advantage of Intel clobber the core advantage of amd? |
| [18:45:01] | ertyu-w: | is myth more single threaded/tasked or multi? |
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| [18:53:01] | wagnerrp: | ertyu-m: personally, i would go for the phenom II |
| [18:53:22] | wagnerrp: | for most applications, the triple core 6100 doesn't weigh up against the older 955 |
| [18:53:48] | ertyu-w: | its more a 6 core than triple for 6100 |
| [18:53:54] | wagnerrp: | its a triple core |
| [18:54:40] | ertyu-w: | 3 modules with 6 sets of integer hardware and 3 sets of floating point iirc |
| [18:54:54] | wagnerrp: | and three instruction decoders |
| [18:55:08] | wagnerrp: | which get swamped when trying to do too much on them |
| [18:55:21] | wagnerrp: | much like they get swamped when using hyperthreading |
| [18:55:27] | wagnerrp: | it helps, but it doesn't help double |
| [18:55:56] | wagnerrp: | once AMD gets their frontend up to spec, the bulldozer is going to be a very interesting design |
| [18:56:00] | wagnerrp: | but IMHO, they're not there yet |
| [18:56:05] | ertyu-w: | I'm assuming phenom II over llano as well |
| [18:56:26] | wagnerrp: | Llano is just a Phenom II with more L2 and no L3 |
| [18:56:27] | ertyu-w: | did piledriver fix it enough or does that wait till steamroller? |
| [18:56:52] | wagnerrp: | it made it better, but they're still stuck with the same problems intel had with the netburst |
| [18:57:02] | ertyu-w: | ah, ok, thought llano used a different base core, I wasn't following AMD back when this stuff was released |
| [18:57:17] | wagnerrp: | a long pipeline, with inadequate branch misprediction recovery |
| [18:57:28] | ertyu-w: | yep |
| [18:57:52] | wagnerrp: | sandy/ivy bridge is the same basic design, but intel already had their years of growing pains |
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| [18:57:58] | ertyu-w: | the IPC advantage Intel has is massive, enough it seems like in most benchmarks that it takes twice as many AMD cores to match Intel at the same clock |
| [18:58:02] | wagnerrp: | amd has yet to learn that the hard way |
| [18:58:51] | wagnerrp: | is this for a frontend? backend? combined? |
| [18:59:23] | ertyu-w: | combined, should be vdpau offloaded, tuners via firewire and hdhomerun |
| [18:59:41] | wagnerrp: | meaning it will be sitting next to your TV? |
| [19:00:20] | wagnerrp: | in that case, get the intel |
| [19:00:25] | wagnerrp: | it will run a lot cooler, meaning quieter |
| [19:00:53] | wagnerrp: | for a dedicated backend, and especially one you might consider doing other things on, like transcoding or HLS, i would go with the 955 |
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| [19:31:19] | ertyu-w: | so if power is off the table, amd, otherwise intel |
| [19:31:48] | wagnerrp: | if you need a lot of power, among those three chips, the 955 is the best |
| [19:32:06] | wagnerrp: | if you just need to run the scheduler and do video decoding, the lower power 2120 is better |
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| [19:38:37] | ertyu-w: | if you meter down the pricing, the 955 is the cheapest, then the 6100 then intel |
| [19:38:59] | wagnerrp: | they all seemed to be just under $100 |
| [19:39:08] | ertyu-w: | it was so much easier in the old days when you just compared the clock speed :) |
| [19:39:53] | ertyu-w: | with mobo, 955 ~$130, 6100 $160, Intel G2120 $170, could get a cheaper dual sandy bridge though |
| [19:40:15] | ertyu-w: | a dual sandy bridge starts around $120 |
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| [19:41:40] | wagnerrp: | where are you looking? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116777 |
| [19:41:54] | wagnerrp: | oh, with motherboard |
| [19:42:10] | wagnerrp: | nevermind |
| [19:43:31] | ertyu-w: | yep |
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| [19:54:40] | skd5aner: | overall, hate to say it, but 0.26 seems to add almost no "cool new features" from a user standpoint, and several regressions in playback... I think this is the first time a mythtv upgrade is actually worse than better |
| [19:55:39] | skd5aner: | even if the user doesn't see any improvement, I would have expected performance and stability enhancements – when you don't get either, it's a huge disapointment |
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| [20:30:16] | ertyu-w: | thanks wagnerrp |
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| [21:07:05] | justinh: | regressions? que? eeks |
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| [21:28:31] | wizbit: | justinh: do you remember back in the day when you was on that mythtv forum |
| [21:28:51] | wizbit: | you was the first person to help me with mythtv lol |
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| [21:39:46] | justinh: | it's pretty much still one guy sticking around to help others, even now |
| [21:39:51] | skd5aner: | justinh: yea... my HD-PVR recordings, although they may actually have slight corruption from the STB/encoder, 0.26 can't handle them although 0.25 could... |
| [21:39:54] | justinh: | not me though. I had enough |
| [21:40:07] | justinh: | skd5aner: more likely regressions in ffmpeg then |
| [21:40:07] | skd5aner: | justinh: also, skip forward/backward is very very slow to respond |
| [21:40:24] | skd5aner: | justinh: and you can't do frame-by-frame seeking while paused |
| [21:40:36] | justinh: | is the whole ffmpeg thing still up, up in the air? |
| [21:40:51] | skd5aner: | justinh: I'm 98% sure you're right... but from a user standpoint, I can't blame ffmpeg... it's MythTV that's "not working" |
| [21:40:53] | justinh: | skd5aner: I can't do that in edit mode anyway in 0.25 |
| [21:40:56] | justinh: | heh |
| [21:41:19] | skd5aner: | I mean, if my Tivo didn't work, and ffmpeg was used to decode video, I wouldn't blame ffmpeg :P |
| [21:41:51] | skd5aner: | justinh: yea, edit mode of certain h.264 material is sometimes very hard, but it's been that way for me for a few years now |
| [21:43:50] | skd5aner: | justinh: last I heard, the devs were sticking with ffmpeg for a while |
| [21:44:02] | skd5aner: | since they decided to finally resync over the summer |
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| [21:58:09] | stuartm: | skd5aner: true, but on the bright side because we choose to include the ffmpeg libs rather than linking external versions we can at least fix this for users without waiting on fixed ffmpeg libs to get packaged and released (rare for that to happen between releases of distros such as Ubuntu) |
| [21:59:30] | justinh: | I'm not fussed about frame by frame seeking. I don't have that kind of time! ;-) |
| [21:59:34] | stuartm: | the situation with regressions sucks, but the truth of that is we need users to test the betas and RCs, if no-one does that these issues don't get picked up before a release |
| [22:00:18] | stuartm: | justinh: presumably that comes in handy for those scenes of very brief nudity ;) |
| [22:00:47] | justinh: | like I said, I don't have that kind of time anymore |
| [22:01:23] | justinh: | or those kinds of channels... i.e. MTV for the VMAs LOL |
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| [22:03:56] | Captain_Murdoch: | stuartm, hmm, maybe that was the rason someone wanted a "mark point A, mark point B, now repeat playback from point A to B until I hit ESCape" patch |
| [22:04:38] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: heh |
| [22:05:28] | justinh: | hahaha |
| [22:05:59] | justinh: | that'll be my new euphemism from now on. Until I hit ESCape |
| [22:06:36] | stuartm: | fwiw, I have a theory that the precepts of continuous integration and workflow encouraged by git are maybe part of the problem when it comes to regressions, with more and more work being done in branches and only merged back later in a cycle as one huge slew of changes, far less testing gets done, it's harder to pin-pojnt the exact change that caused the regression etc |
| [22:08:10] | stuartm: | I can't be the only one who doesn't really have the time to adequately test multiple branches, and if I don't I expect almost no users test the feature/refactor branches, so problems get overlooked until those branches get merged back into master |
| [22:08:37] | justinh: | same old story.. need more master testers. |
| [22:08:40] | Captain_Murdoch: | yeah, pros and cons of each and the fact that the merge makes it look like the commit that caused the bug was 2 months ago when the merge just happened today doesn't help any. |
| [22:09:23] | Captain_Murdoch: | sometimes I don't have enough time to keep up with master |
| [22:10:31] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: yeah, even those people who do follow master don't update daily, tickets can often lag the introduction of bugs by weeks because people don't find time to upgrade that often |
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| [22:11:29] | Captain_Murdoch: | I can remember when I used to keep my production systems running master only a couple days delayed, but having a couple kids definitely put a stop to that. |
| [22:11:42] | stuartm: | the problems might not manifest or be spotted immediately too, I lost a lot of recordings after the recorder branch merge before I actually realised what was happening |
| [22:13:44] | j_v: | I have installed mythtv on a debian sid box from packages built from trunk using the ubuntu build system. Is there up to date (or more so than I have found on wiki) instructions for initial setup? |
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| [22:14:04] | skd5aner: | stuartm: I'm not really comfortable testing betas, but I am ok being a early adopter... I think the reasoning is that I have 1 prod environment... and I've never had to roll back – until my upgrade to 0.26 |
| [22:14:47] | skd5aner: | stuartm: often times, bugs aren't discoverable right away – it takes weeks, and sometimes a month or longer, to trigger a bug, or go through a scenario that shows a deficincy... |
| [22:15:13] | skd5aner: | and it only takes a few hours on a production system to get in a state where you can't roll back without losing data and recordings |
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| [22:15:43] | skd5aner: | so, unless the bug is obvious, "testing" is really hard to do and a risk for those without testbeds |
| [22:16:01] | skd5aner: | that is, unless there's a way to downgrade without losing recordings that have occured since upgrade |
| [22:17:11] | skd5aner: | stuartm: of course, I'm happy to adopt early and supply bug reports – and honestly, in my mind a bug report during beta should have just as much priority and emphases on fixing as a bug report that comes out within the first few weeks or month of a release |
| [22:17:29] | skd5aner: | stuartm: so I definitely *feel* like a beta tester – for sure :) |
| [22:17:41] | stuartm: | there is a way ... it's just fiddly and maybe imperfect, especially since all the contrib scripts were sent to live on a farm in the country |
| [22:18:04] | jams: | hehe nice way to phrase it |
| [22:18:35] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp, jams: does an upgrade trigger a profile update for smolt? if not, it probably should |
| [22:19:04] | jams: | it does not that i'm aware of |
| [22:19:20] | skd5aner: | It'd be nice if the stats accurately reflected how soon people are adopting new versions, rather than waiting 90+ days to trigger a scan |
| [22:19:36] | jams: | thats a good point |
| [22:19:38] | skd5aner: | it won't be until Dec-Jan before 0.26 starts showing up in the stats |
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| [22:19:52] | skd5aner: | (in any numbers of significance) |
| [22:20:25] | jams: | thought it was every 30 days they checked in |
| [22:21:05] | stuartm: | it's 30, I know that because it's been broken on my system for months and every 30 days I get an annoying reminder of it |
| [22:21:55] | stuartm: | I have to go in and manually change the 'last run' date in the DB just so the frontend will startup without a delay |
| [22:22:56] | skd5aner: | heh – why isn't it asynchronous? |
| [22:23:23] | stuartm: | why indeed |
| [22:23:29] | jams: | beats me..thats what i suggested but was told to butt out |
| [22:23:35] | Captain_Murdoch: | If we had a 'backup everything but recording and logging data' backup, then rolling back and the code for rollback code might be easier. that might be easier to maintain than having each individual schema update be able to be rolled back. if we had the autogeneration of the .xml metadata file for each recording, then rolling back would be even easier. just restore the DB, startup, and have it ask if you want to impo |
| [22:23:35] | Captain_Murdoch: | rt any new recordings it doesn't find in the database. that sounds even easier.. |
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| [22:24:34] | stuartm: | jams: I questioned that, repeatedly, but nothing ever came of it – I got the impression that if it bothered me that much I should make time to fix it myself |
| [22:24:52] | Captain_Murdoch: | hmm, maybe an excuse to resurrect the patch I was working on that created those .xml files when/if I get the time. |
| [22:25:01] | ** skd5aner starts way too many debates anymore ** | |
| [22:25:06] | jams: | sounds about right i guess. |
| [22:25:24] | jams: | skd5aner- this isn't really a debate..we all agree :) |
| [22:25:39] | skd5aner: | heh – yea, I guess I poke the stick in to the fire a lot then ;) |
| [22:25:54] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: data updates like the switch to UTC make it harder for that sort of simple rollback |
| [22:26:32] | jams: | gah black on dark brown...how can anybody read that |
| [22:26:51] | skd5aner: | very easy in the infrared spectrum... |
| [22:27:04] | skd5aner: | just wear some rose colored glasses ;) |
| [22:27:04] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: I would like (as if I get the time) to split the updates into two parts – data changes and schema changes, there are far fewer of the latter, and some of the former don't really affect the ability to downgrade |
| [22:27:06] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: no, but that can be fairly easily changed for 0.27 |
| [22:27:14] | wagnerrp: | right now, its just a simple check... |
| [22:27:24] | wagnerrp: | is there a date recorded for a previous run? |
| [22:27:42] | wagnerrp: | if not, abort... if so, was the previous run more than 30 days ago? |
| [22:27:46] | wagnerrp: | if not, abort.... |
| [22:27:53] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: yes, but it's not updated if the check fails (missing perl/python libs etc) |
| [22:27:57] | Captain_Murdoch: | stuartm, yeah. that's what I was thinking near the end of that comment. if you could just restore the DB and get auto-prompted to re-import any recordings the system didn't know about (kind of like the Videos auto-imports new files), then rolling back would be easier. |
| [22:28:14] | wagnerrp: | it's done independently on each machine, and it's only performed on the startup of the frontend |
| [22:28:49] | stuartm: | if there isn't a frontend on the backend, then we don't get reports of tuner hardware etc, so that ultimately needs fixing too |
| [22:28:57] | Captain_Murdoch: | I agree on the schema vs data changes part. |
| [22:28:58] | jams: | wagnerrp- i was actually thinking..that if instead of asking per machine..that it applies to the cluster. Send in one profile..the rest are allowed to |
| [22:29:09] | wagnerrp: | yeah, thats in the plans |
| [22:29:26] | jams: | kk |
| [22:29:28] | wagnerrp: | moving the check into the housekeeper, moving the housekeeper into the libraries, and onto the frontend and backend |
| [22:29:51] | stuartm: | jams: that would be a far better design, we could build pictures of complete setups rather than fragmented reports of individual machines |
| [22:30:02] | wagnerrp: | problem is if the housekeeper is going to be run multiple times on a single machine, there needs to be some mechanism to control race conditions |
| [22:30:12] | wagnerrp: | which means some limited functionality in mainserver |
| [22:30:18] | skd5aner: | and to think... I was going to make these comments in the dev channel, but decided to make them in -users as I didn't want the devs to think I was complaining about the work they put in to 0.26 |
| [22:30:25] | wagnerrp: | although im a bit reluctant to add code into mainserver that im planning on replacing in this cycle anyway |
| [22:31:13] | wagnerrp: | although a simple global lock should be fairly quick to code up, even if it is just throwaway code to get the housekeeper in |
| [22:31:42] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: where you've got a frontend and a backend on the same machine, we can just disable a number of housekeeper activities on the frontend e.g. if (frontend_ip == any_backend_ip) { return; } |
| [22:32:05] | wagnerrp: | that would require the frontend knowing what tasks would also be run on the backend |
| [22:32:08] | wagnerrp: | i want to avoid that |
| [22:33:01] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: a lock would just result in those same tasks being needlessly run twice (or more) though? |
| [22:33:09] | Captain_Murdoch: | have the main/master housekeeper just tell connected clients to run housekeeping tasks. |
| [22:33:43] | Captain_Murdoch: | loop through just like I do for system events, so you only tell a host to run the task once. |
| [22:33:46] | wagnerrp: | stuartm: well the individual housekeeper instances would perform their own check to see if it were time to run |
| [22:34:10] | wagnerrp: | if it were time to run, they would contact the master asking for permission |
| [22:34:26] | wagnerrp: | if something else asked recently, it would be denied |
| [22:34:42] | stuartm: | ok |
| [22:35:01] | wagnerrp: | just to prevent the case where both applications loop through the housekeeper at exactly the same time |
| [22:35:06] | Captain_Murdoch: | sounds easier to just put the scheduling logic in the master. |
| [22:35:17] | wagnerrp: | and pull the "last run time" before the other updated it |
| [22:35:48] | wagnerrp: | Captain_Murdoch: that goes back to me wanting to keep frontend code completely independent of the backend |
| [22:36:29] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: do you plan on doing a lot of work on the web server stuff? I'm trying to decide where to spend my time, and if no-one else is going to be trying to finish the web setup I might figure that into my plans |
| [22:36:41] | Captain_Murdoch: | if they're separate, then there's no race. mythfrontend has housekeepign tasks, mythbackend has housekeeping tasks. |
| [22:36:46] | wagnerrp: | the backend really doesn't need to know what the frontend is doing, unless the two might interfere |
| [22:37:53] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: there really should be very few tasks that both the frontend and backend need to perform, in fact aside from the smolt stuff I can't think of any |
| [22:38:00] | Captain_Murdoch: | stuartm, I'm trying to get HLS on-demand working, then can step back to web setup. I can't promise before 0.27 though. I'd like to get to it, but I think that HLS on-demand will be a lot higher impact since it will make it easier for clients to stream. |
| [22:38:42] | wagnerrp: | stuartm, Captain_Murdoch: while on the topic, what are your thoughts about moving the autoexpirer into the housekeeper? |
| [22:39:37] | wagnerrp: | combined with stepping up the loop on the housekeeper to run through its task list maybe once per minute |
| [22:40:15] | Captain_Murdoch: | not sure of the benefit other than just to lump them together. housekeeper isn't designed to be interfaced with externally while autoexpire does talk back and get talked to. |
| [22:40:39] | Sharky112065: | justinh: frame by frame seeking is useful for football games, not just nudity... I wish it had not been broken in 0.26 |
| [22:40:43] | stuartm: | Captain_Murdoch: ok, I might get up to speed on it then, I'm not directly interested in the web setup in any way but there are serious UX issues in setup generally which need addressing and it doesn't seem worth fixing those in mythtv-setup if that code is going to be dropped a release or two down the road |
| [22:40:56] | wagnerrp: | i admit i haven't really looked into it, but what communication does it need to do? |
| [22:41:27] | Captain_Murdoch: | stuartm, yeah, I think it's quite a ways there, a lot of it is working great, but since we decided not to turn it on if it wasn't 100%, then we didn't get any benefit from it yet. |
| [22:41:42] | wagnerrp: | actually, is the autoexpirer a master-backend-only thing? |
| [22:41:48] | Captain_Murdoch: | autoexpirer talks to scheduler to get info on upcoming recordings I think |
| [22:42:32] | Captain_Murdoch: | I can't recall off the top of my head. originally it was running on any backend. I remember talk of making it master only and having master tell slaves to delete, but can't recall if anyone (or myself) ever did that. |
| [22:43:12] | Captain_Murdoch: | autoexpirer only runs when we're recording right now, so that's another reason for interaction. |
| [22:43:43] | stuartm: | I am interested in getting a replacement for mythweb onto the backend, one written from scratch with an updated and perhaps phone/touchscreen friendlier interface, mythweb is very difficult to use from my phone |
| [22:43:45] | wagnerrp: | im not saying everything would be run on every pass... just the same thing as current |
| [22:43:54] | wagnerrp: | the housekeeper just asks each task if it is yet time to run |
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| [22:48:39] | Captain_Murdoch: | Yeah, one of the reasons for me switching priority to HLS on demand is wanting to be able to watch things easier either locally or remotely on my mobile devices. |
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