Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, June 20th, 2012, 00:05 UTC

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[00:54:39]

Sharky112065:

+sphery: deb-multimedia.org not www.debian-multimedia.org

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[01:25:51]

sl1ce:

hi

[01:27:19]

sl1ce:

is it possible to add the alsa menu options in audio output settings? i just removed pulse from my system and am only getting the null option

[01:28:16]

sl1ce:

i have compiled with alsa support and still get only null

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[01:31:59]

sphery:

sl1ce: you probably need to type in ALSA:default, then scan, then you can probably see them

[01:33:38]

sphery:

Sharky112065: thanks, updated

[01:39:14]

sl1ce:

oh ok, didnt know i could type there ;)

[01:40:18]

Sharky112065:

+sphery: its not working anyway. I changed them and I am getting an error on the first one "deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org sid main "

[01:43:24]

Sharky112065:

+sphery: http://pastebin.com/cV4xHhQy

[01:43:29]

sphery:

not sure how the debian stuff works

[01:43:52]

Sharky112065:

I wonder what is getting installed so I could maybe instal them manually?

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Sharky112065:

ah apt-get update first.. that was not in the doc.. trying now

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[01:55:03]

Sharky112065:

do I want sid or stable?

[02:01:12]

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[02:13:08]

tgm4883:

sphery, I think that already works with pure debian

[02:14:08]

sphery:

Sharky112065: ^^^

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[02:14:36]

sphery:

tgm4883: cool, didn't know whether it would, and hadn't heard anyone talk about trying

[02:14:36]

Sharky112065:

So I do not need to do those steps? the deps are already in debian squeeze?

[02:14:59]

tgm4883:

sphery, I don't know for sure, but I know we had a debian guy submit patches to us

[02:15:11]

sphery:

tgm4883: does the packaging stuff handle dependencies (or at least enumerate them)?

[02:15:48]

tgm4883:

yesish?

[02:15:56]

sphery:

hehe

[02:16:09]

tgm4883:

so it builds source packages, which then can be built into binary packages

[02:16:18]

tgm4883:

and the source packages contain a file that lists dependencies

[02:16:25]

tgm4883:

debian/control

[02:16:30]

sl1ce:

sphery when i put alsa:default there is crashes the frontend

[02:17:05]

sphery:

Sharky112065: sounds like that's a good place to go, then: https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/tree/master/deb + https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/mast . . . bian/control

[02:17:13]

Sharky112065:

so where it says to type

[02:17:15]

Sharky112065:

# apt-get build-dep mythtv

[02:17:15]

Sharky112065:

# apt-get source mythtv --compile

[02:17:20]

Sharky112065:

I just skip it?

[02:17:36]

tgm4883:

Sharky112065, I don't know where you are getting that from

[02:17:44]

tgm4883:

but yea, that sounds wrong

[02:17:49]

Sharky112065:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV-HOWTO

[02:18:04]

sphery:

he was trying to follow http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV-HOWTO#Debian

[02:18:11]

tgm4883:

ah

[02:18:14]

tgm4883:

sec

[02:18:30]

sphery:

or actually the command-line install part just below that

[02:18:33]

Sharky112065:

see this is the problem. if you are not a dev how are you supposed to figure out how to install all of this? I can compile just fine and install deps but need a guide to go by.

[02:18:51]

sphery:

generally, we recommend packages

[02:18:51]

tgm4883:

how about just downloading the packaging and running build-debs.sh?

[02:18:53]

sphery:

:)

[02:19:05]

tgm4883:

Sharky112065, if you aren't a dev, you shouldn't be building packages

[02:19:18]

sphery:

if nothing else, when you try to build, you'll be told of missing dependencies

[02:19:27]

Sharky112065:

I just want to install mythtv on Debian squeeze.

[02:19:33]

sphery:

and can install deps, try again, install deps, ...

[02:19:53]

sphery:

still think using a distro that has good support for MythTV would be the best approach

[02:20:06]

Sharky112065:

and abandon everything I have now

[02:20:33]

sphery:

(of course, I also think that running mythtv on a computer that does all sorts of other things is a bad idea--so, dedicated mythtv box can run any distro that's appropriate for mythtv and your other boxes can run your fav)

[02:20:35]

tgm4883:

just FYI, if you do this "apt-get build-dep mythtv" and get the errors you are getting, something is wrong

[02:21:01]

tgm4883:

I don't use debian though :/

[02:21:06]

sphery:

and since *buntu is based on debian, you'd know much more about it than many who use *buntu

[02:21:09]

Sharky112065:

I fixed that. I did not do a apt-get update

[02:21:18]

tgm4883:

ah

[02:21:22]

tgm4883:

that would do it

[02:21:27]

tgm4883:

so you have the build deps then?

[02:23:27]

tgm4883:

sphery, I know there has been work done on it since we want to push to debian and sync from ubuntu

[02:24:41]

Sharky112065:

Now I get http://pastebin.com/9ngBVu2k

[02:25:43]

sl1ce:

now when i try to open the audio settings i get a segmention fault

[02:26:15]

Sharky112065:

So should I just git pull the source and try to compile and install deps along the way instead?

[02:26:36]

tgm4883:

wtf is wrong with your system

[02:26:47]

tgm4883:

Sharky112065, this is squeeze?

[02:26:52]

Sharky112065:

yes

[02:27:00]

tgm4883:

Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7.0.50~),

[02:27:04]

sl1ce:

audio works fine with other applications

[02:27:09]

tgm4883:

squeeze (stable) (devel): helper programs for debian/rules

[02:27:09]

tgm4883:

8.0.0: all

[02:27:14]

tgm4883:

seems like it should work to me

[02:27:55]

tgm4883:

if you just install debhelper, what version gets installed?

[02:28:08]

Sharky112065:

sec

[02:28:52]

Sharky112065:

8.0.0 it is not installed though

[02:29:10]

tgm4883:

hmm

[02:29:38]

tgm4883:

did you do the apt-get source mythtv?

[02:30:48]

Sharky112065:

not yet. it is in the instructions to do it in the next step

[02:31:26]

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[02:31:43]

tgm4883:

I'm just wondering what they have in there for the debhelper requirement

[02:31:50]

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[02:32:34]

sl1ce:

how can i change the current default audio device outside of mythfrontend?

[02:34:15]

tgm4883:

biab

[02:35:27]

Sharky112065:

This is the order I did the steps... and the results... http://pastebin.com/nN7n6sCQ

[02:37:29]

sphery:

sl1ce: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10149#comment:5

[02:38:44]

sphery:

sl1ce: it sounds like your binaries are built with Pulse dependencies, but you've removed the pulse libs

[02:39:20]

sphery:

sl1ce: if you see it listed as missing in: ldd /usr/{,local/}bin/mythfrontend

[02:41:31]

sl1ce:

well i recompiled using --disable-pulse-audio

[02:42:29]

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[02:43:00]

sl1ce:

but i dont see the option for alsa in the menu, manually entering it leads to segmentation fault upon scanning

[02:43:49]

sl1ce:

i had to run mythfrontend -O AudioOutputDevice?=alsa to get back to the audio settings

[02:44:00]

sl1ce:

but still only see null

[02:44:31]

sphery:

did you do mythfrontend -O AudioOutputDevice=ALSA:default

[02:44:52]

sphery:

also, please pastebin: mythfrontend --version

[02:50:14]

sl1ce:

pastebin: http://pastebin.com/Ta6Sudf3

[02:50:50]

sphery:

sl1ce: you're missing using_alsa

[02:50:55]

sl1ce:

if i do mythfrontend -O AudioOutputDevice=ALSA:default it ends up with segmentation fault on entering audio settings

[02:50:55]

sphery:

broken build

[02:51:10]

sphery:

a build without alsa support on GNU/Linux is /always/ broken

[02:51:32]

sl1ce:

i used --enable-audio-alsa

[02:51:34]

sphery:

(alsa and oss support are required for proper operation)

[02:51:49]

sl1ce:

oh maybe im lacking OSS

[02:52:13]

sphery:

well, it didn't use it--likely because you were missing prereq's, such as dev headers or you had a too-old version

[02:52:23]

sphery:

no you have oss: using_oss

[02:52:33]

sphery:

why aren't you using a package?

[02:52:34]

sl1ce:

it did confirm is ALSA: yes

[02:52:44]

sphery:

well, it didn't compile it

[02:52:53]

sl1ce:

for vdpau support

[02:52:56]

sphery:

or at least the one you're running isn't using it

[02:53:06]

sphery:

packages support vdpau

[02:53:07]

sl1ce:

interesting

[02:53:44]

sl1ce:

ok i guess i could try it that way

[02:53:51]

sphery:

what distro

[02:53:55]

sl1ce:

debian

[02:54:00]

sl1ce:

squeez

[02:54:05]

sphery:

well, no clue about those packages

[02:54:09]

Sharky112065:

+sphery: is there a list of dependencies that I could use to just install them all one by one from?

[02:54:31]

sphery:

I know it works great on *buntu and Fedora/Red Hat packages, though

[02:54:47]

sl1ce:

it was working nicely with pulse audio except for occasional buffer underruns from pulse

[02:54:59]

sphery:

Sharky112065: best I've seen is what tgm4883 mentioned: https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/mast . . . bian/control

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Sharky112065:

hmm. I did not see that line

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tgm4883:

Sharky112065, Looking at those steps, that just builds the version that is in the repos.

[03:05:49]

tgm4883:

are you planning on getting mythtv source at some point? or would just an "apt-get install mythtv" suffice?

[03:07:30]

Sharky112065:

no, i want to dl the source with a git pull and % ./configure |% make... | # make install

[03:09:10]

tgm4883:

I have a feeling I need to download squeeze and try this in a VM

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Sharky112065:

So I should just abandon the documentation that says to use apt-get and just install the dependencies one by one myself? Im ok with that if that is what I need to do.

[03:22:54]

Sharky112065:

This was pretty much a fresh install of debian squeeze btw

[03:23:36]

Sharky112065:

I indalled the Adaptec raid software, but other than that its pretty clean. So I'm thinking something else is broken

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[12:34:52]

ahhughes:

anyone know if a raspberry pi would make a suitable backend?

[12:35:20]

ahhughes:

note backend only.

[12:35:58]

ahhughes:

two tuners in the USB ports, and recording to a NAS (which is probably a 2nd pi)

[12:36:38]

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[13:03:58]

sphery:

ahhughes: you'll have to do much work to make MythTV compile for that ARM system

[13:04:17]

ahhughes:

even a backend?

[13:04:26]

sphery:

once you do, it will be a severely underpowered backend, unsuitable for transcoding or commercial flagging

[13:04:46]

sphery:

and--almost definitely--unsuitable for running the required MySQL server

[13:04:58]

ahhughes:

yeah, I would not expect it to transcode or do commercial flagging.

[13:05:08]

sphery:

and will likely have such slow reschedules it won't be useful as a master backend

[13:05:22]

sphery:

meaning it could be a remote backend that doesn't do any job processing...

[13:06:09]

sphery:

meaning you'd actually save RaspberryPi power usage by just making your real MySQL-capable/scheduler-capable master backend system your only backend

[13:06:57]

sphery:

that said, in some cases, it may be something whose severe limitations you could live with--depending on your specific requirements

[13:07:14]

ahhughes:

what on earth would mysql be doing occupying so many system resources?

[13:07:20]

sphery:

i.e. if you have almost no channels and few tuners and few rules and little recording history

[13:07:44]

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[13:08:00]

sphery:

yeah, MySQL is only a database... and why should a database require a lot of resources--it's not like enterprises actually dedicate servers to the job... ;)

[13:08:11]

sphery:

MythTV uses a good amount of data

[13:09:08]

sphery:

if you have a couple hundred channels, and 2 weeks of data, with an average of 1hr tv shows, you'll have >60k TV shows for it to consider for scheduling

[13:09:51]

sphery:

we don't just use MySQL like Firefox uses SQLite or anything... we actually use it as a database

[13:10:06]

sphery:

anyway, others are trying to get MythTV to compile on the Pi

[13:11:42]

sphery:

and, who knows, by the time you get it working, maybe there will be a Cortex A15-based (or better) Pi that's more suitable to use as a MythTV system... :)

[13:13:34]

sphery:

some have gotten (at least parts of) MythTV to compile on the BeagleBoard, so it may not need that much work to make it compile

[13:14:48]

ahhughes:

I know DB's... have worked with mysql, postgres, oracle, sqlserver, javadb... clearly I dont understand just how much data (and indexes) exist in the mythdb

[13:15:07]

sphery:

there's a good amount of data

[13:15:22]

sphery:

but mainly some very big queries that have a lot of criteria

[13:15:31]

sphery:

i.e. there's a single query run for all recording rules you define

[13:15:40]

sphery:

the BUSQ (Big Ugly Scheduler Query)

[13:15:48]

laga:

running mythtv on less-than-optimal hardware is a nice hobby, but not necessarily a good DVR experience

[13:16:02]

sphery:

agreed... that's probably the best way of putting it

[13:16:42]

laga:

i have spent years trying to save some money on hardware

[13:16:51]

laga:

just.. don't.

[13:17:34]

ahhughes:

cheers guys, I cant stay awake any longer and you have answered my questions :)4

[13:17:42]

ahhughes:

thank you

[13:17:47]

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[13:20:15]

sphery:

laga: hehe, exactly... I decided it would be cheaper to roll down an old desktop system as a master backend than buying new... Everything except the CPU and case (i.e. mobo, CPU heatsink/fan, RAM, PSU) failed (separately--not all at once) within about 6mos--and because it was older gen hardware, replacing them cost about 2x as much as a new system

[13:20:25]

sphery:

and for all that time, my MythTV system was less-than-reliable

[13:20:37]

sphery:

all that time--I actually ran with it for about a year

[13:20:42]

laga:

yeah

[13:21:00]

sphery:

recycling that system and buying new was the best decision I've made for my MythTV box

[13:21:16]

laga:

depending on what you get, it doesn't have to be expensive. i have a low-end athlon II x2 with an nvidia card and it's smooth sailing.

[13:21:22]

sphery:

even though I had spent a /lot/ of money on that system

[13:21:42]

laga:

also spent decent money on a quiet case and PSU. now the only annoying thing is the flashing LED :)

[13:21:46]

sphery:

Yeah. my new systems are generally about $150

[13:21:53]

laga:

wow, that's cheap

[13:22:31]

laga:

about 7 years ago, when I still had lots of spare time in school, i'd dabble around, try to undervolt CPUs, but my time is too precious now

[13:22:38]

sphery:

just a matter of buying the right parts on the right sales

[13:23:02]

sphery:

note that the $150 doesn't include cost of capture cards or HDDs

[13:23:06]

laga:

ah, right

[13:23:37]

sphery:

(already have capture cards, and replace HDDs when they fail)

[13:24:23]

laga:

stupid HD recordings, even my 2TB hdd is close to being full. i also keep 1:1 backups of my DVDs handy ;)

[13:24:38]

sphery:

hehe, yeah, takes a lot of space

[13:25:24]

sphery:

I'm currently at just over 10TB available, but I just bought a replacement 2TB for one that failed in Jan

[13:25:48]

laga:

i take it you run a RAID?

[13:25:52]

sphery:

I'm now up to 1440MB free (thanks to end of season)

[13:26:03]

sphery:

no, just record way more than I could ever watch

[13:26:22]

sphery:

(figure that way, I'll always have something better to watch than whatever's airing live)

[13:27:10]

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[13:27:12]

laga:

i do not have a box online 24/7, it's a combined frontend/backend box. but I could another 3TB disk and some usb disks ;)

[13:27:53]

sphery:

yeah, 3TBs are getting to be almost reasonable prices

[13:28:43]

sphery:

I'm just worried about whether you need a different controller card for them... I don't know when the integrated controllers started supporting >2TB

[13:29:09]

laga:

the board is recent, so it should work

[13:31:48]

laga:

i've also started to write my own MythNetVision grabber. i'm going to use a proxy to automagically wedge downloaded videos into MythVideo, unless someone beats me by adding proper storage group support to MNV

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[14:59:17]

wagnerrp:

sphery: likely anything EFI is going to be >2TB capable

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[15:02:51]

Sharky112065:

+sphery: https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/mast . . . bian/control shows "libqtwebkit-dev | libqt4-webkit-dev | libqt4-dev (<< 4:4.7.0~beta1),". Does the << mean all versions below the number to the right?

[15:03:29]

wagnerrp:

i believe we require 4.6

[15:04:15]

tgm4883:

Sharky112065, I don't believe so

[15:04:23]

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[15:04:36]

tgm4883:

It should be for just libqt4-dev

[15:04:43]

Sharky112065:

Anyone know what it means? "<<"

[15:04:57]

tgm4883:

less than

[15:07:45]

Sharky112065:

OK thanks. Im gonna have to install all the deps individually one by one. Using the deb-multimedia repository is nt an option for me. Looks like he has fully moved on to Wheezy and is requiring debhelper > 9.0

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[15:18:54]

Sharky112065:

One last thing im confused about. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV-HOWTO under "Manually building MythTV" it says to do "git clone https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv.git" and then "git checkout 0.25" shouldn't I just be doing "git clone -b fixes/0.25 git://github.com/MythTV/mythtv.git" instead?

[15:21:23]

stuartm:

Sharky112065: you can do that instead yes, I think it's just illustrating the process for switching between branches

[15:22:06]

stuartm:

it does say "execute the following instructions to obtain the latest version of MythTV." and then "To use the release version (instead)"

[15:24:26]

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[15:27:57]

andreax:

Hello All! Today i compiled a new Version from git master. Now i get an error from backend that mysql timezone support is missing? Any advice how to install it on gentoo?

[15:30:31]

Sharky112065:

OK thnaks folks. I will give it a try now.

[15:30:36]

wagnerrp:

mysql_tzinfo_to_sql /usr/share/zoneinfo > /tmp/tzinfo.sql

[15:30:44]

wagnerrp:

mysql < /tmp/tzinfo.sql

[15:31:07]

andreax:

Ah! I'll give it a try, thankyou!

[15:33:45]

sphery:

Sharky112065: thanks... fixed the broken branch names (it's fixes/0.25 , so git checkout 0.25 was wrong)

[15:34:31]

sphery:

andreax: you'll need to import as mysql root user: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MySQL_Time_Zone_Tables

[15:36:50]

sphery:

Sharky112065: and, yes, git clone -b is fine... docs just don't care to explain the 10M ways you can do things with git ;)

[15:37:02]

sphery:

(i.e. sometimes less is more)

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[15:43:03]

Sharky112065:

hmm.. libqtwebkit-dev is not showing as avail in apptitude for Debian Squeeze even with deb-multimedia added. Any ideas?

[15:43:05]

andreax:

Thanks sphery, seems to work.... Thaaaaanky.... :)

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[15:45:17]

Sharky112065:

libqt4-webkit-dev also mising

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[16:41:08]

wagnerrp:

anyone know the name of the company that makes pin-style heatsinks?

[16:41:12]

wagnerrp:

starts with an S

[16:42:08]

wagnerrp:

they were ridged, like a screw rather than a straight pin, but no slope on the threading

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[16:44:09]

wagnerrp:

nevermind... swiftech

[16:48:13]

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[17:02:23]

gizmobay:

I was running myth setup. I haven't run it in a long time (couple of years) since I never needed to. Yesterday, I decided I wanted to clean up some channels and icons. I ran myth setup and on exiting out of the channel editor it frooze so I had to kill it.

[17:03:20]

gizmobay:

The system then went to read only mode and I couldn't do anything. I then rebooted and it said it couldn't write to the temp dir.

[17:03:53]

gizmobay:

I then went into manual mode and it started to fix a bunch of theme files and now all works.

[17:04:26]

gizmobay:

Is this an issue with mythtv-setup?

[17:07:40]

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[17:34:57]

stuartm:

gizmobay: no, sounds like a disk error

[17:35:54]

stuartm:

gizmobay: well, a freeze might be an issue with mythtv-setup, what followed that was definitely not

[17:36:30]

sphery:

yeah, sounds a lot like either a disk error or full file system (either of which could mean no MySQL = mythtv-setup hangs)

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[17:39:10]

gizmobay:

I thought it was full disk but it shows 75% full

[17:39:40]

gizmobay:

2.7G free

[17:39:50]

gizmobay:

recordings are on a different partition

[17:40:02]

gizmobay:

I saw this in dmesg Filesystem error recorded from previous mount: IO failure

[17:43:40]

stuartm:

sphery, gizmobay: I'm aware of an issue where if you exit the icon grabber before it has loaded all the images it will pause until that has happened, it's not a hang but it definitely needs fixing

[17:49:30]

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[17:57:26]

Sharky112065:

+sphery: got "apt-get build-dep mythtv" to work by doing the following. Dont know if it will work for mythtv .25 or not but it completed successfully. http://pastebin.com/NWu5iZJ2

[17:58:01]

Sharky112065:

+sphery: im about to pull the source and give it a try.

[17:59:17]

Sharky112065:

I'm gonna keep updateing that pastebin as I go, in hopes that it will help someone else in the future. There really should be a simple step by step guide to install on Debian Squeeze.

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leemaisel is now known as HMMWV-Mech

[18:40:08]

HMMWV-Mech:

Hello Peeps

[18:54:30]

gizmobay:

I think my db was corrupted. I ran optimize and then ran myth-setup without issue

[19:01:52]

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[19:31:30]

sphery:

gizmobay: yeah, disk errors or full file system can (generally do) cause mysql table crashes... I suggest taking a close look at your drive to see if it's starting to fail

[19:31:45]

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[19:31:59]

SteveGoodey:

Hi, I'm running Mythbuntu 9.10 0.25-fixes which I'm trying to archive the records to an external usb

[19:32:16]

SteveGoodey:

before I replace with a bigger hard drive and do a

[19:32:29]

SteveGoodey:

clean install of Mythbuntu 12.04.

[19:32:38]

tgm4883:

9.10 with 0.25?

[19:32:48]

SteveGoodey:

Trouble is I'm getting MythNativeWizard: Failed to open file for writing ...same if I try saving to the local hard drive.

[19:33:04]

SteveGoodey:

Back in 2010 Beirdo found the same problem and reckoned it was due to mytharchive

[19:33:19]

SteveGoodey:

it's expecting them to have full path rather than relative path, it seems.

[19:33:40]

SteveGoodey:

Any body have a suggestion of how I can get these recordings off

[19:33:55]

SteveGoodey:

so I can import them back into the new mythbuntu.

[19:34:20]

SteveGoodey:

Sorry 0.22 fixes

[19:34:37]

sphery:

SteveGoodey: best bet is to just rsync the directory/ies of recordings to some other location, do a DB backup, then upgrade

[19:34:56]

tgm4883:

sphery, +1

[19:35:33]

sphery:

then when you upgrade, just make those recordings available in one or more of the Storage Group directories (technically, any Storage Group you want--doesn't even have to be the same as before), and all will work

[19:36:14]

sphery:

SteveGoodey: I highly recommend something like: rsync -av --progress -n /path/to/recordings /path/to/archive/to

[19:36:34]

sphery:

(which would create a /path/to/archive/to/recordings dir and put all the recordings in there)

[19:36:45]

sphery:

well, would do that after you remove the -n/--dry-run argument

[19:38:23]

SteveGoodey:

OK thanks. I was hoping to do a clean install rather than an upgrade. Not sure if 0.22 to 0.25 is a multi upgrade job.

[19:39:08]

tgm4883:

0.22 to 0.25 should be fine. You'll still do the clean install of the OS though

[19:39:14]

sphery:

SteveGoodey: clean install is fine

[19:39:27]

sphery:

I just meant "upgrade through whatever procedure you had planned"

[19:39:43]

sphery:

i.e. if you have recordings and you have a DB backup, you're good to go

[19:39:57]

sphery:

SteveGoodey: also, I /highly/ recommend: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore

[19:40:08]

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[19:40:23]

sphery:

the backup script will do its best to make sure you get a /good/ backup--if you do mysqldump directly, you may well use the wrong options and corrupt your schema

[19:40:36]

sphery:

(and wouldn't notice it until it's way too late)

[19:43:27]

Sharky112065:

+sphery: I have a question. Could you look at http://pastebin.com/BFp7Uc9B and see if you can answer the question at the bottom?

[19:44:08]

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[19:44:27]

sphery:

Sharky112065: no idea... I'm lacking aptitude with apt

[19:44:39]

tgm4883:

apt-get -s upgrade

[19:45:04]

tgm4883:

that would do a simulated upgrade, and show you what is not upgraded

[19:45:10]

Sharky112065:

+sphery: ok thanks for trying.

[19:45:17]

Sharky112065:

tgm4883: ok thanks ill try it

[19:45:17]

tgm4883:

Sharky112065, ^

[19:45:32]

Sharky112065:

tgm4883: :P I cant type that fast

[19:45:46]

SteveGoodey:

sphery: Thanks, I'm aware of the dangers of messing up the schema. I'll give your method a go. Again thanks.

[19:45:58]

SteveGoodey:

tgm4883: Thanks.

[19:46:08]

tgm4883:

SteveGoodey, yw

[19:46:37]

tgm4883:

Sharky112065, for future reference, you should ask someone familiar with debian based OS's your debian based questions

[19:46:47]

tgm4883:

I think sphery uses Linux From Scratch ;)

[19:47:54]

sphery:

hehe

[19:48:09]

sphery:

haven't used that since ~ 2000

[19:48:23]

tgm4883:

Gentoo?

[19:48:30]

sphery:

nope

[19:48:33]

tgm4883:

Slackware?

[19:48:35]

sphery:

won't say what I'm using, though

[19:49:18]

tgm4883:

HML? http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/

[19:49:34]

sphery:

I will say that IMHO, Gentoo is about the worst choice of distro for MythTV, LFS is 2nd worst, and Debian is 3rd worst

[19:49:48]

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[19:50:06]

sphery:

so it's not any of those :)

[19:50:46]

tgm4883:

so it must be HML then

[19:50:59]

sphery:

hehe, haven't heard of that one

[19:51:06]

tgm4883:

http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/

[19:51:21]

sphery:

oh, wait

[19:51:23]

sphery:

nvm

[19:51:52]

sphery:

you caught me by confusing me with your acronyms, so I couldn't do proper avoidance

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[19:57:55]

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[19:58:27]

Sharky112065:

hmm. my new linux server just took a dump on me. Screen went black and it rebooted. Now I gotta figure out what happened.

[20:01:49]

tgm4883:

Sharky112065, if you used -s on the apt-get upgrade, it literally didn't do anything (-s is for simulates)

[20:03:39]

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[20:04:13]

Sharky112065:

naw that is not what caused it. that worked

[20:04:29]

Sharky112065:

That helped me figure it out

[20:04:54]

Sharky112065:

no Im looking through logs to see if I can figure out why my sever rebooted and went black

[20:05:06]

smoothifier:

ok so i'm looking at a post on an ubuntu forum and i'm pretty sure it's bad news. it's a 'solution' to the mythfilldatabase problem. it involves setting up a temp fs and then setting default_storage_engine=MyISAM

[20:05:23]

Sharky112065:

I'm wondering if I need an nvidia driver. I did not install a driver for it. nvidia 9400

[20:05:39]

smoothifier:

is this a bad plan? i have another mysql database that gets hit every hour or so and i wonder if things would be affected.

[20:10:08]

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[20:12:44]

tgm4883:

smoothifier, no don't do that

[20:12:56]

tgm4883:

ugh, I think I'm going to update that first post on there

[20:13:13]

tgm4883:

smoothifier, update to the latest version of 0.25, then it should be fine

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[20:15:47]

smoothifier:

tgm4883: yeah, it seemed like a bad idea.

[20:16:32]

smoothifier:

tgm4883: i have to wait a bit, i use rpmfusion. I'll just wait for a new build

[20:16:40]

tgm4883:

smoothifier, yea that is resolved via regular updates

[20:16:44]

tgm4883:

hmm

[20:17:10]

tgm4883:

smoothifier, so I'm unsure about if it's fixed for rpmfusion, I only know it's fixed for Ubuntu

[20:17:25]

tgm4883:

I don't know how often the RPMFUSION packages are updated

[20:17:42]

smoothifier:

it's good to see that it's fixed. maybe that barriers debate can finally be put to bed :)

[20:17:57]

smoothifier:

tgm4883: not as often but i think there is one coming

[20:18:22]

smoothifier:

i can wait until then. i'm not ready to start compiling this beast myself :)

[20:18:41]

tgm4883:

smoothifier, looks like it was fixed on May 25th

[20:18:59]

smoothifier:

yeah my build is from like may 6th i think

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[20:22:03]

sphery:

more that it's worked around than fixed

[20:23:56]

smoothifier:

is it a deeper problem?

[20:24:05]

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[20:25:19]

sphery:

just saying that barriers are still the same time-sink they were before

[20:26:29]

sphery:

the workaround just overrides a mysql default so that we're using a table format that mysql says is no longer appropriate, which changes the way mysql uses the disk that has barriers enabled

[20:26:37]

stuartm:

barriers are evil ... or at least the ext4 implementation leaves a lot to be desired

[20:26:53]

smoothifier:

i could run without them, but my ups doesn't talk to my machine. it's an old ups.

[20:27:14]

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[20:27:16]

smoothifier:

if i just dropped a little cash on a new one, i'd run without barries

[20:27:19]

sphery:

meaning you're still likely to performance have issues with barriers enabled before or after the workaround

[20:27:36]

stuartm:

smoothifier: ext3 never had barriers, you could argue that most people can happily live with it disabled

[20:28:31]

sphery:

stuartm: but thanks to those who preached the dangers of life without barriers, we can no longer live under the auspices of "ignorance is bliss"

[20:28:39]

sphery:

bliss no more for GNU/Linux users!

[20:28:47]

stuartm:

chances of your machine powering off unexpectedly? Probably very slim, chances of losing important data if that happens? Even smaller

[20:28:49]

smoothifier:

well, since the power outages usually only last a few minutes here, i could do it. i guess if the database got corrupted i could just restore it

[20:29:20]

smoothifier:

after all, my machine is not in production. nothing is mission-critical

[20:29:42]

smoothifier:

it's a damn media center, i could lose all my media and i'd only groan

[20:29:54]

stuartm:

sphery: yeah, seems that people have forgotten that above all it's important to have backups and that barriers won't save them if the drive fails or the house burns down

[20:29:58]

sphery:

smoothifier: just might want to keep a backup of the DB on a different system

[20:30:25]

sphery:

(since the main reason barriers were enabled by default on ext4 was to protect against file system corruption)

[20:30:26]

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[20:30:56]

smoothifier:

it's on a different partition anyway

[20:31:22]

smoothifier:

hmm yeah i could do that

[20:31:55]

stuartm:

great advert for ext4 that was! Ext4 is more prone to corruption than ext3, so we've enabled a feature which slows down the drive significantly to compensate!

[20:32:40]

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[20:32:52]

sphery:

hehe, I think ext3 is equally prone to corruption--just that no one worried about it until someone said "battery-less disk cache is A Bad Thing"

[20:33:19]

sphery:

(plus since disk caches have been growing--to amazingly large sizes--we're much more likely to lose important info, now

[20:34:38]

smoothifier:

well, the thing is with my system, i only have like 60 channels to scan so it isn't a hell of a long time to wait

[20:34:48]

smoothifier:

that probably won't change soon

[20:34:51]

sphery:

but, yeah, it would be nice if arguments were made with more info and less doom and gloom prophecies so that people could make intelligent decisions without having to do a ton of research to figure out whether to worry or not

[20:35:05]

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[20:35:56]

stuartm:

sphery: that's my point though, ext3 was equally prone to corruption but how many people learnt that to their cost? Where was the great debate about how many people were losing data ... it didn't happen because they weren't

[20:36:08]

sphery:

right

[20:37:04]

stuartm:

yes it's possible, but the chances are so small that no-one ever considered it a problem with ext3 because it wasn't and still isn't a problem for 99% of people

[20:38:26]

sphery:

yeah, and generally those who need to be concerned--large enterprises with extremely valuable data--aren't using disks without battery backup (whether in raid controllers or ups's or whatever)

[20:38:49]

smoothifier:

are their any candidates for the next generation of file system?

[20:38:59]

sphery:

ReFS, of course!

[20:39:08]

stuartm:

it's different for enterprise because they are running a lot more discs for a start and data integrity is important if you're talking about business transactions etc

[20:39:13]

smoothifier:

is that reiserfs?

[20:39:21]

sphery:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/01/16 . . . ws-refs.aspx

[20:39:25]

** stuartm was way too slow there **

[20:39:38]

stuartm:

s/disc/disk/

[20:40:14]

smoothifier:

windows 8. will it catch on...?

[20:40:55]

sphery:

hehe, I was joking about ReFS (I'm sure it will be like NTFS where someone has to reverse engineer it and we won't see it on GNU/Linux for many, many years)

[20:41:14]

sphery:

that said, I've heard Windows 8 is a great operating system

[20:41:17]

sphery:

... for a phone

[20:41:26]

stuartm:

hard to say ... I'm still stumped by some of the stuff I'm hearing about Metro e.g. you can only have two windows on screen at once, one using 2/3s of the screen and the other 1/3 (obviously)

[20:41:35]

sphery:

it's doing a Ubuntu--turning desktops and laptops into phones

[20:42:16]

sphery:

at least there's Unity among Microsoft and Canonical visionaries...

[20:42:18]

smoothifier:

they have enough nerve to innovate but they seem to be lacking the proper direction

[20:42:40]

stuartm:

it's treating their users like gibbering idiots, but maybe I'm short sighted and it really will be the future of UIs

[20:42:45]

sphery:

yeah, forcing Metro on desktop/laptop seems a hugely arrogant move

[20:42:50]

sphery:

akin to Itanic

[20:43:31]

sphery:

"We'll just do things the way we want and ignore the customer and the world will follow. They have to because we're <IBM|Intel|Microsoft>!"

[20:43:59]

stuartm:

maybe we're the minority who simply aren't relevant to the bottom line of MS, Canonical and even Apple

[20:44:04]

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[20:44:28]

sphery:

IBM learned their less, Intel reacted to the issue and is grudgingly backing away from their assertion (but seem to have learned nothing from it)... I thought MS had actually learned something from WinME and Vista, but...

[20:44:35]

sphery:

lesson

[20:44:52]

smoothifier:

apple seems to be innovating and then doing an excess amount of soldering on their mainboards

[20:45:16]

smoothifier:

hardwired ram/video/etc

[20:45:22]

sphery:

stuartm: good point about Apple... they seem to be trying to turn their Mac OS X into a walled garden with App Store (and 30% off the top straight to Apple), like their phones

[20:46:02]

stuartm:

if I was them though I'd be a little worried that they are all throwing their weight behind the same basic idea, if it fails they all fail but the aim in that game is to be the last man standing and you can't do that if your business model is simply to copy your rivals

[20:48:42]

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[20:48:46]

stuartm:

sphery: just wait until anything you want to buy online using an Apple device results in a surcharge payable direct to Apple, because I swear that's where it's heading

[20:49:03]

sphery:

yeah, agreed

[20:49:08]

sphery:

I fear for the future of tech

[20:49:28]

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[20:49:51]

stuartm:

new shoes from Amazon? That will be $70 + the $20 Apple tax because your browsing using an Apple device

[20:49:53]

sphery:

btw, let's hope EFF makes progress on software-patent reform: https://defendinnovation.org/

[20:49:59]

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[20:50:32]

stuartm:

never mind the fact that you've already paid Apple hundreds or thousands of dollars for that hardware to begin with

[20:51:22]

sphery:

stuartm: and then your $22.83 for, "You browsed 228,321 web pages this month with your iPad and iPhone"

[20:51:28]

stuartm:

it's Compuserve and AOL all over again, we're regressing

[20:52:12]

smoothifier:

what was that service that GE had?

[20:52:16]

smoothifier:

GEnie?

[20:52:31]

smoothifier:

hehe i quit after one month

[20:52:39]

sphery:

yeah, just like we do with client-side/server-side stuff... keep going round the wheel. But this time they have the word "Cloud" making it obvious that this time must be correct!

[20:54:05]

smoothifier:

gotta run. i'll keep that in mind about the barriers :)

[20:54:11]

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[20:54:37]

wagnerrp:

im all for moving stuff serverside, when it makes sense

[20:55:01]

wagnerrp:

im just reluctant to move things to OTHER PEOPLE'S servers, which is the only different with the "cloud"

[20:55:07]

sphery:

agreed

[20:55:31]

wagnerrp:

especially for situations where i can run my own servers for the same purpose, and especially in situations when it means im going to be relying on some free service provided by someone else

[20:55:37]

sphery:

though there's also the push putting processing back on client side with JS

[20:55:49]

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[20:55:50]

wagnerrp:

free is crap, cheap is crap

[20:56:00]

wagnerrp:

if you want something done well, its going to cost some money

[20:56:17]

wagnerrp:

or its going to cost you in some other manner

[20:56:19]

sphery:

and advertisers can't provide the money to make everything free forever :)

[20:56:39]

sphery:

yeah, where in the case of advertisers, "free" has its own connotation

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[20:59:30]

wagnerrp:

its a tough life being a cynical bastard...

[20:59:39]

wagnerrp:

everyone thinks you're a loon

[21:01:10]

sphery:

hehe

[21:01:55]

wagnerrp:

clearly we all need to stop fearing and learn to love the cloud

[21:02:13]

** wagnerrp goes and gets his cowboy hat **

[21:02:55]

sphery:

I, for one, welcome our cloudy overlords.

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russell5:

is there an easy way to get nuvexport to mail when its done. I can mail local (to user on same computer) Also i have it running through mythtv

[23:27:35]

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lapion:

anyone know of any good showcase-pages ?

[23:28:41]

lapion:

oops that was supposed to be asked in #displays

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