| Tuesday, May 22nd, 2012, 15:15 UTC | ||
| [15:15:15] | discernica: | Frustrated with AutoExpire (0.25): backend is deleting watched items before items that I have "Deleted" — any tips? |
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| [15:34:30] | sphery: | discernica: disable the setting, "Watched before unwatched," that you previously enabled (its default is disabled). In frontend General settings under Video |
| [15:35:01] | sphery: | Watched before unwatched: If enabled, programs that have been marked as watched will be expired before programs that have not been watched. |
| [15:35:16] | sphery: | and/or mark the shows you delete as watched? |
| [15:38:52] | sid3windr: | why does watched even influence it when already deleted :-/ (does not sound logical to me) |
| [15:40:39] | sphery: | discernica: Looking at the code, though, it does Live TV first, then Deleted shows, then episodes over max, then recordings. If you're using 0.25+, I'm guessing what you're seeing is that when it's expiring deleted episodes, it's leaving any episode that was deleted more recently than: |
| [15:40:44] | sphery: | Time to retain deleted recordings (days): Determines the maximum number of days before undeleting a recording will become impossible. A value of zero means the recording will be permanently deleted between 5 and 20 minutes later. A value of minus one means recordings will be retained until space is required. A recording will always be removed before this time if the space is needed for a new recording. |
| [15:41:04] | sphery: | if you can confirm, we can fix that |
| [15:56:50] | Curly060: | sphery: your hint to use Full Scan (Tuned) did it! Now I only have the transports and channels I want. However, it seems a bit complicated to enter each transport manually. I wonder why it was not possible that mythtv autodetects the transports. for now, main thing is that I have a reproducible and working way of making a scan, thats the good news. |
| [15:57:30] | sphery: | sid3windr: FWIW, /this/ is exactly why options are evil... We've had "Auto-expire instead of delete" as an option for years (since 0.21 or before). It was disabled by default. Users reported all sorts of issues, including the inability to delete recordings with missing files, that we couldn't reproduce--all because their settings were different from, i.e., mine when I was testing. This bug (if it does exist/if I'm reading the code ... |
| [15:57:36] | sphery: | ... right and not missing something), is just another long-standing bug that we are only finding because now, finally, everyone is using the same setting for "Auto-expire instead of delete" |
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| [15:58:10] | sphery: | Curly060: nice... glad that helped. the UI definitely needs some improvement, and that's what we hope to do with the new configuration system |
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| [15:59:55] | Curly060: | I gotta go now. thanks again for the help! looking forward to actually using mythtv :) |
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| [16:05:09] | Gumby: | Hi all. If I am wanting to compress and stream recordings via mythweb what is the best way to do this in 0.25. Or alternately if anyone can provide a URL on where to read up on the topic that'd be awesome |
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| [16:10:34] | sphery: | IMHO, the "best" way to watch recordings elsewhere is to carry them on a HDD or flash drive or similar |
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| [16:11:40] | sphery: | transcoding to low-quality/low-bitrate (to allow upload with your home upstream bandwidth limit)--and using a ton of electricity/backend resources to do so--is a huge waste when airplanes and cars have unbelievable bandwidth in comparison |
| [16:11:54] | sphery: | (how many HDDs could you fit in your car's trunk :) |
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| [16:14:07] | sphery: | The only reason I can see for transcoding a recording (where I'm not including lossless cutting in "transcoding") is to allow playback of the recording on a limited-capability device that can't handle the original format/codec/bitrate/... (Though I wouldn't consider that a good reason, since I don't think watching TV on a limited device is worthwhile, myself.) |
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| [16:14:41] | sphery: | that said, others actually do the transcoding/streaming/... , so I'm sure one will be able to help you if you decide not to do the "carry it with you" approach |
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| [16:16:08] | Gumby: | the problem is, it is rather difficult to "carry it with you" when something has recorded while you are away from home and you happen to be a $1500 plane ride away from home |
| [16:16:26] | Gumby: | so that approach isn't ideal in all scenarios |
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| [16:19:27] | Captain_Murdoch: | Gumby, you could use the new HLS support in 0.25 to watch recordings remotely via the mythbackend webserver's HLS test page. I have a work in progress patch for MythWeb to support this, but it needs some more work. hopefully it will make it into 0.26 if I get time to complete it. |
| [16:20:02] | Captain_Murdoch: | checkout this thread for a little more info: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/513960 and you can find more via google or gossamer |
| [16:20:16] | Gumby: | Captain_Murdoch: awesome, I'll give that a read |
| [16:20:46] | Gumby: | thank you |
| [16:20:51] | Captain_Murdoch: | you will need to recompile with libx264 support to use HLS. |
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| [16:21:38] | Captain_Murdoch: | also, may need --enable-libmp3lame I believe. 0.26 will support AAC encoding of audio using the builtin AAC encoder rather than MP3. |
| [16:22:30] | Gumby: | how far away is 0.26? hehe |
| [16:22:59] | Gumby: | .... boss is callin. time to get back to work. thanks again for the link and the info |
| [16:31:59] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: did you see my auto-expire question in #mythtv (most-recent posts in there)? I know you're busy with the move and all, but if you're bored/looking for something to look at, you may know that code well enough to know if that is a bug |
| [16:32:11] | sphery: | if you don't have time to look, I'm sure we'll figure it out |
| [16:32:53] | sphery: | oh, and thanks :) |
| [16:34:06] | sphery: | Gumby: generally, I never watch any shows from a season while it's actually airing, so I never need to see something that records since I've left home :) |
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| [17:23:58] | sid3windr: | sphery: agreed, re options are evil :) |
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| [17:31:37] | wagnerrp: | sid3windr: no, but unnecessary ones are |
| [17:31:51] | wagnerrp: | ones where the application could otherwise make an intelligent choice on its own |
| [17:31:52] | sid3windr: | obviously |
| [17:32:02] | wagnerrp: | or where the user already chose the same thing elsewhere |
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| [17:45:09] | sphery: | even necessary ones are evil when they allow a bug to exist (and cause several tickets and lots of complaints) for 6+ years--because no one figured out that deleting recordings with missing files only fails if auto-expire instead of delete is enabled |
| [17:45:26] | sphery: | granted, that specific setting is no longer "necessary" because we just forced it on for everyone |
| [17:45:49] | sphery: | (and are using the more-sensible "always use a delete queue" approach, so you could claim it's unnecessary, but...) |
| [17:46:33] | sphery: | wagnerrp: so, why is the key on settings not a unique key? show indexes from settings; |
| [17:47:10] | wagnerrp: | i dont know, i just use it |
| [17:47:12] | sphery: | here's the output: http://pastebin.com/n939k0TU |
| [17:47:29] | sphery: | Non_unique = 1 on the value (2-part) key |
| [17:47:55] | sphery: | just wondering since ServerSage somehow had 2 rows--with different values--for the slow deletes setting |
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| [18:04:24] | noisymouse: | wagnerrp, are you here? I'm getting errors about checksums not matching the sizes of files for the mythtv ebuild |
| [18:05:34] | wagnerrp: | did you run that script twice in on day? |
| [18:06:42] | noisymouse: | probably... I interrupted it the first time |
| [18:07:05] | noisymouse: | but then I cleaned out the whole overlay and ran it again, so I don't think it should have been a problem |
| [18:07:14] | wagnerrp: | scrap the tarballs, scrap the Manifest files, and run it with --digest-only |
| [18:07:44] | noisymouse: | are the tarballs and manifest files only in the overlay? |
| [18:08:14] | wagnerrp: | the tarball will get downloaded by portage, and the manifest will get generated by portage |
| [18:08:51] | wagnerrp: | running it with --digest-only simply makes the script loop through each of the plugins and the main ebuild, running 'ebuild <arbitrary file>.ebuild digest' |
| [18:11:12] | noisymouse: | do you know what directory the digest files would be in? |
| [18:12:40] | wagnerrp: | same as the ebuilds |
| [18:12:51] | wagnerrp: | one per package |
| [18:15:20] | noisymouse: | should I still specify version=0.25? |
| [18:15:47] | wagnerrp: | if youre using --digest-only, it makes no difference |
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| [18:20:16] | sphery: | discernica: having read through the auto-expire code, I'm now convinced that it's doing the right thing. That means the problem is likely a bit more complex, but we should have a nice way to clean up the mess soon. |
| [18:21:22] | sphery: | discernica: I'll post a message to the mythtv-users mailing list when we have it ready and will try to remember to post a message here (mentioning your nick), too. |
| [18:21:45] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, code seems to be correct to me as well. we expire old or quick deleted first depending on DeletedMaxAge, then in the disk space section, we expire deleted first then non-deleted in order of user-selected AutoExpireMethod priority. |
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| [18:27:43] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: yeah, apologies for missing that AutoExpire::FillExpireList() section that handled it... thanks for looking, though. |
| [18:28:12] | sphery: | I was seeing what I was expecting based off the description of the symptom, instead of really seeing the code. |
| [18:28:54] | Captain_Murdoch: | no problem. I did had to refresh my memory, haven't touched that code in a while. |
| [18:28:59] | discernica: | sphery: Watched before unwatched is un-checked for me, Time to retain is 1 (days). My deleted items have been there for a couple of weeks, it will not delete. They all have an AutoExpire of 9999 — is that the problem? |
| [18:30:52] | sphery: | discernica: yeah, whether watched before unwatched is checked or not will have no effect... if you check watched before unwatched, it simply means that it will prioritize watched shows in each of the "stages" of autoexpire |
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| [18:32:25] | Captain_Murdoch: | autoexpire = 9999 should force them to be at the head of the lists when we look at the groups of recordings. ie, autoexpire of 999 would get expired before a autoexpire of 1 when we delete things older than the max age. |
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| [18:32:34] | Captain_Murdoch: | what is deletepending set to for those recordings that won't expire? |
| [18:32:43] | sphery: | hehe, yeah, I just asked him that in PM |
| [18:34:04] | Captain_Murdoch: | actually, also, another question might be, is there a DeletedFifoOrder setting that is non-zero. that would cause the emNormalDeletedPrograms case to not expire anything. |
| [18:34:30] | Captain_Murdoch: | in FillDBOrdered in the emNormalDeletedPrograms case |
| [18:35:05] | sphery: | I'm thinking he hit the race due to having Auto-expire instead of delete enabled on 0.24, having a bunch of Deleted recordings, and updating with a version of MythTV prior to https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/abfced82 (meaning it updated incorrectly and flipped him to "expire deleted shows immediately"), so mythbackend attempted to delete lots (hundreds?) of recordings all at once and swamped the mysql connection limit (51 in 5.1+) ... |
| [18:35:11] | sphery: | ... and left the recordings orphaned |
| [18:37:18] | sphery: | ah, wait, 151 for max_connections |
| [18:37:42] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, the DeletedFifoOrder setting may also have a play in this. help says "if enabled, delete recordings in the order which they were originally deleted", but if that is set, then emNormalDeletedPrograms has no effect which means that FillExpireList does not actually expire deleted programs first before anything else. |
| [18:37:49] | sphery: | seems it was 100 before, though, so it's actually better, now |
| [18:38:05] | discernica: | deletepending is 0 for all my recordsing |
| [18:38:08] | discernica: | *recordings |
| [18:38:38] | sphery: | discernica: SELECT * FROM settings WHERE value = 'DeletedFifoOrder'; |
| [18:38:50] | Captain_Murdoch: | are we saying that DeletedMaxAge is 1 in this use case? |
| [18:39:03] | discernica: | SELECT * FROM settings WHERE value = 'DeletedFifoOrder'; returns 1 for data |
| [18:39:54] | sphery: | discernica: SELECT * FROM settings WHERE value = 'DeletedMaxAge'; |
| [18:40:11] | discernica: | also 1 |
| [18:40:12] | Captain_Murdoch: | discernica, ok, 1 is good for DeletedFifoOrder, that will expire deleted first then non-deleted |
| [18:40:49] | Captain_Murdoch: | seems to me that DeletedFifoOrder is broken though if I read that code correct. |
| [18:40:52] | sphery: | and so the deleted ones are actually over 1 day old (since you said they've been there for a couple weeks without being deleted) |
| [18:41:08] | discernica: | For the "retain deleted" I thought that after 1 day, it would start deleting, or does it still wait until the space is needed? |
| [18:41:21] | Captain_Murdoch: | discernica, what is 'lastmodified' set to on those recordings, is it current or over 1 day old? |
| [18:41:39] | discernica: | * I think I checked the Expire in Deleted order today |
| [18:41:40] | noisymouse: | so I just tried to create digests for the ebuilds and I got the same error for almost every one: Error(s) in metadata for 'media-plugins/mythbrowser-0.25_p20120519': |
| [18:41:40] | noisymouse: | SLOT: invalid value: '' |
| [18:41:47] | sphery: | discernica: SELECT * FROM settings WHERE value = 'AutoExpireMethod'; |
| [18:41:58] | discernica: | Method 3 |
| [18:42:00] | Captain_Murdoch: | DeletedMaxAge should expire deleted when it hits that age, whether it needs the space or not. |
| [18:42:08] | sphery: | discernica: with max age of 1, it will delet^^^ |
| [18:42:12] | sphery: | too slow :) |
| [18:42:41] | discernica: | ok, so it must be a carry-over from the .24 to .25 upgrade, some column in "recorded" |
| [18:42:51] | sphery: | what's your AutoExpireMethod? |
| [18:43:05] | discernica: | Weighted time/priority |
| [18:43:07] | sphery: | it could well be a bug--we actually changed our use of the auto-expirer for 0.25 |
| [18:43:20] | sphery: | oh, you said that |
| [18:43:22] | sphery: | 3 :) |
| [18:43:53] | sphery: | sorry, missed that reply |
| [18:44:07] | discernica: | sokay |
| [18:44:20] | Captain_Murdoch: | discernica, do the old deleted recordings have a recorded.lastmodified value of over a day old or are they more recent? |
| [18:44:32] | sphery: | discernica: can you http://pastebin.com/ the output of: select * from recorded where recgroup = 'Delete'; |
| [18:45:01] | sphery: | (or at least a few rows of it--if you don't want others to know what you're recording :) |
| [18:46:08] | discernica: | several of them have a last modified sometime today, others go back to May 1st |
| [18:48:34] | discernica: | http://pastebin.com/vL238NCT |
| [18:49:21] | discernica: | don't bash the shows :-) I have several people to cater to here |
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| [18:51:15] | MikeA: | so can I get assistance with 0.25 here? |
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| [18:53:17] | MikeA: | hello? |
| [18:53:23] | sphery: | discernica: hmmm, nothing stands out (although lastmodified on all of them is around 09:50 today--is that current time on your end?) |
| [18:53:36] | sphery: | MikeA: best is to ask the question and if someone knows how to help, they will |
| [18:53:46] | MikeA: | ahhh, ok, thanks |
| [18:53:50] | Captain_Murdoch: | discernica, looks like all the lastmodified are set to "2012-05–22 09:48:*" if I'm reading that correctly. |
| [18:53:53] | sphery: | this is the right place for questions about MythTV (and 0.25 is the current stable version, so is the best supported one) |
| [18:53:59] | Guest38128: | Hi, i'm new to mythtv. While I got it working quite quickly, I've quite some troubles using it. Most of the time I can't switch channels, because the tuner is used for recording. It looks to me like time-shift is activated most of the time? |
| [18:54:10] | MikeA: | I updated to 0.25 and now I cannot fast forward or rewind in mythvideo (it says "Not Flagged" as the error message) |
| [18:54:13] | Captain_Murdoch: | if lastmodified is today then none of those will be expired since lastmodified is what's used to determine how 'old' a deleted program is. |
| [18:54:56] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: they won't be expired pre-emptively, but they should still be expired before not-yet-deleted recordings when it goes to make space for new recordings |
| [18:55:21] | sphery: | he was saying that it expired a not-deleted watched recording instead of one of the deleted ones when it was making space |
| [18:55:40] | discernica: | sphery: probably me poking around with the Deleted items today again to see if I can get rid of them |
| [18:55:42] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, but if he turned on the 'expire in deleted order' today then previously the deleted would not have been expired first. that's why I think there is a bug in 'delete in expired order' mode. |
| [18:55:44] | Guest38128: | I've got a single tuner card, so it's obvious I can not record channel X and watch channel Y at the same time. But I never wanted to do that! :) |
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| [18:56:27] | discernica: | maybe I should reset the last modified to a couple of days ago, and see if they delete?? |
| [18:57:05] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: ah, I see what you mean... if (gCoreContext->GetNumSetting("DeletedFifoOrder", 0) == 0) return; looks bad |
| [18:57:07] | Captain_Murdoch: | if 'delete in expired order' is not set, then we don't consider whether something is deleted or not when expiring for disk space. we expire in the AutoExpireMethod always. |
| [18:57:17] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, right. |
| [18:57:33] | Captain_Murdoch: | it should just change the order clause, not totally return. |
| [18:57:33] | discernica: | does "lastmodified" pertain to the date on the file, or some database metadata change? |
| [18:57:40] | Captain_Murdoch: | metadata change |
| [18:59:04] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, the 'if' statement should probably be something like "if (gCoreContext->GetNumSetting("DeletedFifoOrder", 0) == 0) orderby = "starttime ASC"; else orderby = "lastmodified ASC"; |
| [18:59:04] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch just DoS'ed my box... |
| [18:59:40] | sphery: | (trying to pull the history on that line, and it was last changed by your "split mythcontext into mythcorecontext" changeset, which is very slow to load on github) |
| [19:00:02] | Captain_Murdoch: | :) so even ?years? later it causes issues. |
| [19:00:37] | sphery: | here's the commit that introduced it: https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/fe368 . . . b6e157e27fbc |
| [19:01:20] | sphery: | it seems that /everyone/ (else--sorry discernica ;) has had DeletedFifoOrder enabled for 4 years |
| [19:01:36] | sphery: | wait, that defaults to disabled |
| [19:02:08] | sphery: | so this may explain why users are saying it expires new recordings rather than old ones |
| [19:02:49] | Captain_Murdoch: | yeah, I think that's an old old old bug. :| and something I would never ever run into as I never let things autoexpire. |
| [19:03:09] | sphery: | perhaps it may explain http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7936 |
| [19:03:31] | Captain_Murdoch: | does my new 'if' statement make sense to you? |
| [19:03:40] | sphery: | definitely makes sense with the new if |
| [19:04:02] | Captain_Murdoch: | although, I almost wonder if that's a setting waiting to be removed. :) especially since it's been broken since day 1. |
| [19:04:20] | sphery: | I say, "Please!" |
| [19:04:37] | Captain_Murdoch: | just delete in 'lastmodified' order by default since that keeps the recently deleted items around longer. |
| [19:05:01] | discernica: | so if I turn-off autoexpire on everything, it will only delete from Deleted? ie focus only on the recgroup? |
| [19:06:21] | Captain_Murdoch: | discernica, yes, I believe. I personally never let my drives fill up to that point so even though I do have autoexpire setup on some recording schedules, nothing ever gets a chance to expire for disk space reasons. |
| [19:06:42] | Captain_Murdoch: | recgroup and LiveTV that is... those 2 will still be considered |
| [19:06:53] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: makes sense to me... I had always assumed that when DeletedFifoOrder was disabled, it would use AutoExpireMethod to decide which one to expire first, even among the deleted recording |
| [19:07:12] | discernica: | I keep a pretty close watch on disk space. partly because "watched" does not always mean watched around here with so many using myth on the main tv |
| [19:07:19] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, probably was my intention, not sure why it was left broken/unfinished. |
| [19:07:21] | sphery: | but if that's not the case (and it seems that would require much more code), that setting doesn't seem that useful |
| [19:07:32] | sphery: | ah, yeah, may have just fallen through the cracks |
| [19:07:42] | sphery: | but, helped prove that's not required :) |
| [19:07:50] | Captain_Murdoch: | actually yes, it does follow the normal autoexpire method, but it doesn't prioritize deleted over non-deleted which it should have done. |
| [19:08:12] | sphery: | ah, ok |
| [19:08:25] | sphery: | wow, glad you helped with this--I never would have found it |
| [19:09:02] | sphery: | even when you first mentioned it, I didn't realize its importance (even though I looked at the code)... It wasn't until you came back to it after we checked the rest that I got what you were saying |
| [19:09:44] | Captain_Murdoch: | autoexpirer is much more complicated than it was when I first added it back when I only had 1 hard drive and was concerned about disk space. :) |
| [19:10:11] | discernica: | update recorded set autoexpire=0 where recgroup='Default'; and then update my schedules as well? |
| [19:10:22] | discernica: | assuming leave the Delected at 9999 |
| [19:10:31] | Captain_Murdoch: | then I started using links to give me more disk space, then decided we needed storage groups which further complicated the expirer. |
| [19:10:32] | sphery: | MikeA: sorry for being distracted a bit... "Not Flagged" should only show up on playback when you press the SKIPCOMMERCIAL key (by default Z or End keys) |
| [19:10:39] | sphery: | MikeA: which key are you pressing? |
| [19:11:41] | MikeA: | the fast forward key on my hauppauge remote |
| [19:11:52] | MikeA: | not sure what that maps to |
| [19:11:59] | sphery: | Guest38128: MythTV always records everything--including Live TV. What version of MythTV are you using? If it's less than 0.25-fixes, you need to upgrade or Live TV won't work properly--especially channel changes. |
| [19:12:02] | MikeA: | I couldn't even think of a reason that error should ever pop up in mythvideo |
| [19:12:20] | sphery: | MikeA: should be able to find out the mapping in ~/.lircrc or ~/.mythtv/lircrc |
| [19:12:26] | MikeA: | k, lemme check |
| [19:12:37] | Guest38128: | sphery: Version: 0.25-dmo2.squeeze1 |
| [19:12:40] | sphery: | and/or use irwatch |
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| [19:12:58] | Guest38128: | sphery: Maybe I got it totally wrong. I can switch channels using arrows |
| [19:13:09] | MikeA: | I think it's now somehow mapping to Z |
| [19:13:30] | sphery: | Guest38128: based on the fact that you're using Debian, I'm going to guess that's not new enough 0.25-fixes if you are having problems |
| [19:13:30] | MikeA: | the 0.25 upgrade really fubar'd my lirc setup badly – so badly that I had to recreate the damn thing manually |
| [19:13:32] | Guest38128: | sphery: But I'd like to browse through the EPG and directly jump to the channel I'd like to |
| [19:14:10] | Guest38128: | sphery: And I used ENTER for that, seems like it means "record this"? ;) |
| [19:14:22] | sphery: | Guest38128: ah, in EPG, you hit X to change channels |
| [19:14:35] | Guest38128: | sphery: Hah! Will try that ;) |
| [19:14:51] | sphery: | I think it's X |
| [19:15:13] | Guest38128: | sphery: hm, doesnt work |
| [19:15:58] | sphery: | MikeA: hehe, Z would do that... if you want actual fast forward, you'd use > (with default mappings)... If you want skip forward, you'd use Right arrow, if you want jump forward, you'd use PgDown |
| [19:16:10] | Guest38128: | sphery: By X you mean the X on the keyboard, not some remote control? |
| [19:16:36] | MikeA: | so I guess 0.25 changed all the lirc stuff heavily? I just did the mythbuntu update and it really smoked it |
| [19:16:53] | sphery: | Guest38128: yeah, keyboard key (or a remote button that sends that "key") ... http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-11.html#ss11.1 |
| [19:17:00] | sphery: | See under EPG |
| [19:17:05] | sphery: | X = change the channel to the currently selected channel without leaving the EPG (Most useful in the alternate EPG) |
| [19:17:14] | sphery: | Esc or C = exits without changing the channel |
| [19:17:30] | sphery: | Space/Enter = when watching LiveTV will change to that channel and exit the EPG if the selected show is in progress or starts within 15 minutes; or otherwise will allow you to resolve conflicts or change overrides. If the program is not already scheduled to record, it will instead act like pressing I |
| [19:18:02] | sphery: | there's also the MENU, which I think provides a change channel and exit option |
| [19:18:05] | sphery: | MENU = M |
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| [19:18:34] | sphery: | so, you'd only need MENU if you scrolled into the future... if you're on current shows, Space/Enter would work |
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| [19:18:56] | ** sphery should have know that because he's the one who cleaned up all that code a couple years ago ** | |
| [19:19:30] | Guest38128: | I think I found a way by hitting O, then browsing through time and channels and hitting enter/space |
| [19:19:32] | sphery: | and updated the keybindings section of the howto |
| [19:19:52] | sphery: | O = browse mode at the bottom of the playback? |
| [19:19:56] | sphery: | not the full EPG, right? |
| [19:19:58] | jm|laptop: | hello |
| [19:20:06] | Guest38128: | sphery: yes, some kind of OSD |
| [19:20:12] | jm|laptop: | how does the Deleted recgroup work? |
| [19:20:22] | jm|laptop: | is it new? |
| [19:20:31] | sphery: | Guest38128: if so, you want to re-enable, "Always use browse mode in Live TV: If enabled, browse mode will automatically be activated whenever you use channel up/down while watching Live TV." |
| [19:20:48] | sphery: | jm|laptop: not new... are you having problems with mythtv expiring the wrong things? |
| [19:20:50] | Guest38128: | sphery: I read that M should bring the EPG, but for me its merely a settings menu, audio channel, subtiles and stuff like that |
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| [19:21:14] | jm|laptop: | sphery: no. I'm making third party scripts that need to look for deleted recordings |
| [19:21:15] | sphery: | Guest38128: right, M actually brings the menu, then you have to navigate to Program Guide and select that |
| [19:21:19] | Guest38128: | sphery: thx, will try that |
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| [19:22:18] | sphery: | jm|laptop: what's new is we just made it so that the Deleted recording group is now /always/ enabled for all users--any time you delete something, it just changes the recording group to Deleted, then later, the auto-expirer will go through the "delete queue" and delete shows that can be deleted (i.e. aren't in use for anything else) |
| [19:22:50] | jm|laptop: | sphery: I see. How frequently does the auto-expirer fire? |
| [19:22:52] | sphery: | jm|laptop: so, as far as mythfrontend and MythWeb goes, shows that are in Deleted recording group are "in the recycle bin/trashcan" |
| [19:23:09] | jm|laptop: | yes I see |
| [19:23:18] | sphery: | and, generally, aren't shown unless the user explicitly requests seeing them (by changing to Deleted rec group) |
| [19:23:18] | jm|laptop: | handy if you ever delete by mistake |
| [19:23:54] | jm|laptop: | ah. It's gone now. :) |
| [19:24:07] | sphery: | expirer runs once "in a while" (anywhere from every 15min to every 5min, during recordings) |
| [19:25:41] | sphery: | jm|laptop: there's a setting: Time to retain deleted recordings (days): Determines the maximum number of days before undeleting a recording will become impossible. A value of zero means the recording will be permanently deleted between 5 and 20 minutes later. A value of minus one means recordings will be retained until space is required. A recording will always be removed before this TIme if the space is needed for a new recording. |
| [19:25:59] | jm|laptop: | ace. Thanks. |
| [19:26:15] | sphery: | ignore the "TIme"--that's my typo, not the setting's :) |
| [19:26:42] | discernica: | sphery, Captain_Murdoch: thanks for your help, the Deleted recgroup is finally empty. I set autoexpire=0 and lastmodified = May1st and it has cleaned-up |
| [19:27:40] | sphery: | discernica: thank you for reporting the issue... it's nice to have found a 4yr-old bug that likely explains several tickets that we were unable to resolve |
| [19:28:43] | discernica: | question on mythpreviewgen log files (have lots of them). it is trying to read /etc/mythtv/config.xml, but that has "# to be filled in by mythtv-setup" which is invalid XML and generating an error. I guess this did not get installed as part of the upgrade. Is it necessary, or if I delete it will it go back to mythconverg.settings values? |
| [19:31:00] | sphery: | discernica: this is 0.25-fixes, right? |
| [19:32:21] | discernica: | stock rpmfusion 0.25 |
| [19:32:21] | sphery: | discernica: find all teh config.xml files on your system and see if any of them are correct. If not, you'll need to make a correct one... chances are /etc/mythtv/config.xml is a link to ~mythtv/.mythtv/config.xml (or /etc/mythtv is a link to ~mythtv/.mythtv ) |
| [19:33:00] | discernica: | probably because I just reinstalled fedora, but never knew I needed the config.xml, I'll get it from a backup |
| [19:33:18] | sphery: | you can delete the file (not the links) and then run mythtv-setup (or, likely, even mythfrontend) and it should re-create it |
| [19:33:19] | discernica: | sorry, forgot my first stop is google or the wiki |
| [19:33:33] | sphery: | yeah, if you have a backup of an old/good one, that will work, too |
| [19:33:58] | sphery: | you may need to rename mysql.txt to get it to save the config.xml |
| [19:45:51] | jm|laptop: | I don't support UK Freeview make it easy for me to work out which are radio channels, do they? |
| [19:46:02] | jm|laptop: | s/support/suppose/g |
| [19:46:05] | jm|laptop: | -g |
| [19:47:27] | sphery: | hehe |
| [19:47:49] | sphery: | I think most UK Freeview users are running some script which tries to organize their channels |
| [19:47:49] | jm|laptop: | there's no flag for that, is there |
| [19:48:07] | sphery: | don't know where--I've been trying to ignore it since it's a "edit DB data directly" script |
| [19:48:17] | jm|laptop: | sphery: Freeview numbering works for me in 0.25 |
| [19:48:42] | jm|laptop: | heh. Yes. |
| [19:48:49] | sphery: | meaning the channel scanner picks up the proper numbers? |
| [19:48:54] | jm|laptop: | I /address/ the DB with my scripts but I don't think I write to it ever |
| [19:49:01] | jm|laptop: | sphery: yes. |
| [19:49:04] | sphery: | cool |
| [19:49:22] | jm|laptop: | e.g 50 for BBC One HD |
| [19:49:38] | sphery: | I assumed that the script was editing things like callsign and channel number, possibly putting radio in the callsign for radio channels or whatever |
| [19:49:54] | jm|laptop: | ah. Yes, I see. |
| [19:49:59] | sphery: | but you'll have to track down the script people are using--or someone who can link you to that script--to find out more |
| [19:50:22] | jm|laptop: | Freeview radio channels tend to be channel 7XX |
| [19:50:37] | jm|laptop: | which would be fine except my chanids have changed many times |
| [19:51:07] | jm|laptop: | so older recorded radio programmes don't necessarily give me a clue when I JOIN the channel and recorded tables |
| [19:53:55] | Steve-Goodey: | jm|laptop: This any good? for xmltv, http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Uk_xmltv#Script_to_do_this... |
| [19:54:06] | dekarl: | jm|laptop: I bet Freeview has proper service type to see which channel is SD/HD/radio |
| [19:54:24] | jm|laptop: | yes. |
| [19:54:37] | dekarl: | there have been ideas to store that in the database but afaik its not stored there yet |
| [19:55:10] | dekarl: | sphery: btw, channels.conf does contain everything mythtv wants to know, we just don't import the data ;) |
| [19:55:58] | jm|laptop: | so is there a table with the more raw data like service type? |
| [19:56:05] | dekarl: | sphery: ohh and for EIT we don't really need it in the DVB-C/T use case (its nice to have for the DVB-S use case where on mux contains the EIT for all muxes) |
| [19:56:39] | dekarl: | jm|laptop: I think the scanner only looks at it to filter which channels to import and thats it |
| [19:57:27] | jm|laptop: | channelscan_channel has `is_audio_service` |
| [19:57:44] | jm|laptop: | intellesting |
| [19:58:10] | jm|laptop: | hmm. That might work. |
| [19:59:11] | jm|laptop: | no. It won't. The recorded table only holds chanid and I'm back to where I was not being able to match for ^7\d\d$ |
| [20:01:07] | jm|laptop: | and I've already been told off for having old programmes in my watch queue |
| [20:33:52] | ** wagnerrp looks forward to having his recordings ruined by election tickers tonight ** | |
| [20:34:55] | Steve-Goodey: | Not many in the UK bothered with them. |
| [20:36:36] | wagnerrp: | was that to me? or a previous discussion? |
| [20:39:30] | Steve-Goodey: | Just a comment on voting apathy. |
| [20:40:14] | wagnerrp: | well at least it's kentucky, where weve had electronic voting for like 20 years |
| [20:40:25] | wagnerrp: | and the elections will pretty much be done half an hour after the polls close |
| [20:40:45] | wagnerrp: | rather than ohio, where they're still tallying voted into all hours of the night |
| [20:41:34] | wagnerrp: | and all through primetime, i get to see election tickers of statewide positions with a couple hundred votes and "0% precincts reported in" |
| [20:41:50] | wagnerrp: | ... you dont have to report to us that nothing has happened |
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| [20:48:19] | sphery: | but I thought "No news is good news"? |
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| [20:52:26] | wagnerrp: | sphery: i had been rewriting that wiki scripts thing to cache the data into a database, along with a service on our server to allow quick queries |
| [20:52:37] | wagnerrp: | rather than having each individual client spend ~90 second doing it on its own |
| [20:52:41] | wagnerrp: | i cant find it... |
| [20:52:49] | wagnerrp: | no idea where i put it |
| [20:55:29] | wagnerrp: | i wanted to have that running |
| [20:55:40] | wagnerrp: | so i could manage automated versioning outside of the wiki |
| [20:55:52] | wagnerrp: | so i could push updated versions of those various scripts, but not cut out 0.24 users |
| [20:56:16] | sphery: | :( |
| [20:56:22] | sphery: | not in your github repo? |
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| [20:56:45] | wagnerrp: | if anywhere, i would have stuffed it into the mythtv extras repo |
| [20:56:56] | sphery: | btw, does anyone have mythtv running on a VIA APC? |
| [20:57:02] | sphery: | ;) |
| [20:57:35] | sphery: | might want to talk with Beirdo... I know he re-arranged the extras repo a bit--and still has a backup of the original, I think. |
| [20:57:51] | wagnerrp: | APC? |
| [20:58:01] | wagnerrp: | oh, just extra A |
| [20:58:04] | sphery: | not an "American Power Conversion" :) |
| [20:58:15] | sphery: | http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article . . . roid_os.html |
| [20:58:34] | wagnerrp: | sphery: i mean i never finished it, so i never pushed it |
| [20:58:40] | sphery: | ohhh |
| [20:58:44] | wagnerrp: | beirdo wouldnt be able to do anything since it never made it there |
| [20:58:49] | wagnerrp: | i dont know where it is on my hard drive |
| [20:59:11] | sphery: | I'm sure someone, somewhere, will say that the VIA APC can do HDTV playback, so then users will ask if they can run mythtv on it |
| [20:59:18] | wagnerrp: | unless i never actually saved it, and its sitting as a hidden .swp file somewhere |
| [20:59:30] | sphery: | The APC PC is able to play high-definition movies with the help of video accelerators. The PC fits into any standard Mini-ITX chassis and draws only four watts of power at idle mode and 13.5 watts at maximum mode. That is significantly lower than a standard PC, Via said in a statement. |
| [20:59:54] | sphery: | The PC has a WonderMedia ARM processor-based ARM11 design, which is older than ARM Cortex processors. Via offers mini-motherboards based on x86 and ARM, and many tablets under $200 are available based on the ARM11 design running Android 2.3, code-named Gingerbread. Via's chips with ARM processors are also used in low-cost tablets. |
| [21:00:10] | wagnerrp: | long since flushed out of my shell history |
| [21:00:16] | wagnerrp: | since when does VIA do ARM? |
| [21:00:24] | sphery: | they just announced this one |
| [21:00:46] | sphery: | I think the "offers" in there is a "now offers" |
| [21:00:57] | sphery: | It's PC World, so ... |
| [21:01:23] | sphery: | http://www.tomshardware.com/news/VIA-APC-8750 . . . X,15721.html |
| [21:01:30] | sphery: | hehe, "VIA's $49 Android-Based Mini-PC is No Bigger Than a Banana |
| [21:02:09] | sphery: | that must be via's marketing push--that pic and banana size comparisons are all over |
| [21:04:43] | wagnerrp: | there it is, stuffed it in my webroot, since it would be there for testin |
| [21:04:43] | wagnerrp: | g |
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| [22:07:16] | k-man: | random idea of the moment: i wonder if MythtTV could as an "organisation" get allocated a manufacturer code in the NEC IR Procotol, so then mythtv could have its very own set of IR codes that mapped to specific functions |
| [22:08:26] | k-man: | i googled around a bit but couldn't find much on the NEC protocol other than it has a manufacturer code in the data frame |
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| [22:30:47] | sphery: | wagnerrp: did you see [mythtv-users] Non-ASCII characters in mythmessage/mythutil ? Didn't you find some issue with command-line parsing before the charset is specified? |
| [22:31:26] | wagnerrp: | i thought i fixed that |
| [22:31:38] | sphery: | specifically http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /334462.html |
| [22:31:48] | sphery: | might well be fixed and he just needs to update |
| [22:31:53] | wagnerrp: | by delaying processing until after the app had started up, and Qt's encoding stuff had set up |
| [22:32:02] | wagnerrp: | i thought i fixed that long before release |
| [22:32:36] | wagnerrp: | i thought i just poured root beer all over myself |
| [22:32:42] | wagnerrp: | actually, i did all three |
| [22:32:42] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [22:32:51] | sphery: | hehe |
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| [22:35:26] | wagnerrp: | thats as good a reason as any to do laundry... |
| [22:35:54] | sphery: | #10371 says it was fixed 3mos ago |
| [22:35:54] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10371 ** | |
| [22:36:07] | sphery: | 2/25 |
| [22:36:38] | wagnerrp: | yeah, 7adbd54074db |
| [22:37:16] | sphery: | alright, I'll go with the basics, then |
| [22:42:10] | wagnerrp: | i see the same thing here |
| [22:43:37] | wagnerrp: | you know, i wonder if its not set up to handle extra arguments properly |
| [22:45:39] | sphery: | hehe |
| [22:45:51] | sphery: | at least I didn't guarantee that it was fixed in my e-mail :) |
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| [22:51:51] | wagnerrp: | these are extra options, undefined in the parser, and stored to a QMap<QString, QVariant> |
| [22:52:13] | wagnerrp: | where the QVariants are a QByteArray that is later reprocessed to a QString after language crap is set up |
| [22:52:52] | wagnerrp: | is this doing what i intend it to do? .... http://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/mytht . . . ser.cpp#n860 |
| [22:54:03] | wagnerrp: | or is it just storing that converted value to nothingness? |
| [22:57:43] | larrikin_: | this sounds like template rubbish.. |
| [22:58:02] | larrikin_: | I hate all things I don't understand |
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| [23:04:44] | wagnerrp: | sphery: ^^^ |
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| [23:26:21] | sphery: | wagnerrp: not sure what exactly is happening there, but does this help (or is it unrelated)? https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/c397aa90 |
| [23:27:07] | wagnerrp: | unrelated |
| [23:27:15] | wagnerrp: | the string conversion is correct |
| [23:27:29] | wagnerrp: | but im not sure if its actually being inserted into the qvariantmap |
| [23:27:40] | wagnerrp: | i dont know if map iterators work that way |
| [23:27:42] | sphery: | ok, I had found that QVariant::toString() always uses QString::fromAscii(), regardless of locale |
| [23:28:04] | sphery: | when the QVariant's type is QVariant::ByteArray, so wasn't sure if that was coming into play |
| [23:28:53] | sphery: | though it looks like you're doing the fromlocal8bit explicitly, so that looks like the same approach |
| [23:29:12] | sphery: | or, wait, should that be fromUtf8()? |
| [23:29:27] | sphery: | no, wait, because it's not from the DB |
| [23:29:32] | wagnerrp: | we dont know if its utf8 |
| [23:29:32] | sphery: | (we know the DB is in utf-8)... |
| [23:29:36] | sphery: | sorry, catching up :) |
| [23:29:45] | wagnerrp: | QString::fromLocal8Bit() is correct |
| [23:30:05] | sphery: | yeah, agreed |
| [23:30:06] | wagnerrp: | im just not sure if "(*iter) = QString..." is going to work as i intend |
| [23:30:50] | sphery: | ah, ok |
| [23:30:53] | sphery: | I see what you're asking |
| [23:31:04] | ** sphery tries to think through the pointer garbage and iterators ** | |
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| [23:41:42] | sphery: | wagnerrp: not sure whether that's a problem or not... I'm leaning toward it being backwards (and we should be assigning a new value to the pointer), but I'd recommend getting another opinion |
| [23:42:02] | sphery: | maybe Beirdo could look at it? ^^^ |
| [23:42:05] | wagnerrp: | can always just change, build, and test |
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| [23:42:09] | sphery: | yeah |
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| [23:42:28] | wagnerrp: | no recordings tonight |
| [23:42:57] | sphery: | I have to admit to being too lazy to boot my dev box, which has my skeleton Qt test code project on it |
| [23:43:13] | sphery: | I'll probably boot it later tonight, but not until after dinner |
| [23:43:20] | wagnerrp: | heh, my dev box is "broken" |
| [23:43:34] | wagnerrp: | swapped cables around on the patch panel |
| [23:43:39] | wagnerrp: | and apparently disconnected it |
| [23:43:41] | sphery: | if you like, I can write some simplified test code, but I think just flipping it may be the quickest test |
| [23:43:47] | sphery: | hehe |
| [23:43:49] | wagnerrp: | trial and error doesnt seem to have figured out which one is correct |
| [23:43:59] | sphery: | that's the best kind of broken... one that's fixable by reconnecting cables |
| [23:45:47] | sphery: | wagnerrp: so you're doing some sort of: iter = &(QString::fromLocal8Bit(iter->toByteArray())); |
| [23:45:51] | sphery: | and it's still not working? |
| [23:46:09] | wagnerrp: | see above link |
| [23:46:09] | sphery: | I really should learn Qt/STL-style iterators one day |
| [23:46:35] | sphery: | you mean you haven't tested changing it? |
| [23:46:39] | sphery: | 05.22 19:43:49 <+wagnerrp> trial and error doesnt seem to have figured out which one is correct |
| [23:46:43] | sphery: | made me think you did |
| [23:47:00] | wagnerrp: | swapping cables on the patch panel to try to get my dev box back on the network |
| [23:47:30] | sphery: | ah, ok |
| [23:51:36] | wagnerrp: | iterator::operator* – Returns a modifiable reference to the current item's value |
| [23:51:41] | wagnerrp: | seems like i should be able to edit it |
| [23:52:21] | sphery: | yeah, const_iterator would be unmodifiable |
| [23:52:28] | wagnerrp: | but perhaps setting it directly does not count |
| [23:52:58] | sphery: | I think you're writing a qstring value on top of the address where the qbytearray is stored, right? |
| [23:53:13] | sphery: | I think we want to change the pointer in the iterator/map to point to the qstring, instead |
| [23:53:23] | wagnerrp: | im trying to give the QVariant a new value |
| [23:53:31] | wagnerrp: | replacing the QByteArray with a QString |
| [23:53:46] | sphery: | ah, yeah, forgot it's a qvariant that contains a qbytearray |
| [23:53:56] | sphery: | so, yeah, that should work |
| [23:54:19] | wagnerrp: | perhaps setValue? |
| [23:55:31] | sphery: | that I'd think QVariant::operator= would work |
| [23:55:49] | sphery: | (and there's a warnign about setValue not being available with MSVC – http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/qvariant.html#setValue ) |
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| [23:59:13] | wagnerrp: | so... pull the key for direct assignment to the qvariantmap |
| [23:59:22] | wagnerrp: | bypass the iterator |
| [23:59:49] | sphery: | not sure how best to handle it |
| Wednesday, May 23rd, 2012 | ||
| [00:00:07] | wagnerrp: | its not like it has to be efficient, it just has to work |
| [00:00:15] | wagnerrp: | its not going to get run often |
| [00:02:27] | sphery: | wagnerrp: ok, wait, I'm confused, again |
| [00:02:58] | sphery: | trying to find where we have a map and where we have a bytearray |
| [00:03:16] | wagnerrp: | it gets parsed as a bytearray |
| [00:03:38] | wagnerrp: | it remains that way until QApplication has been init, and something requests that value |
| [00:03:54] | wagnerrp: | at which point it is converted, marked as converted, and passed to whatever wanted it |
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| [00:07:08] | Squirrely: | ello all. |
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| [00:08:10] | Squirrely: | anyone experienced with the ceton pcie tv tuner and mythtv? I've seen some documentation on it on the wiki but it hasn't said if it's supported and if there are any limitations with it. |
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| [00:08:53] | wagnerrp: | no, yes, can only access 'copy freely' channels |
| [00:09:05] | Squirrely: | as for example i know using a stb and firewire works in my area just fine...but that is only one tuner. |
| [00:09:30] | Squirrely: | does the copy freely flag depend what area you are in? |
| [00:09:59] | Squirrely: | and does it copy the mpeg2 ts stream directly like firewire? |
| [00:10:17] | wagnerrp: | you are capturing using firewire right now? |
| [00:10:29] | Squirrely: | well i used to. not anymore. |
| [00:10:45] | sphery: | wagnerrp: so *iter is the value in the map, meaning the = should change it... I say ask Beirdo |
| [00:10:54] | wagnerrp: | anything you could capture using firewire, you could capture using an infinitv |
| [00:11:05] | wagnerrp: | and it will be the raw data as it was with firewire |
| [00:11:08] | wagnerrp: | who is your provider? |
| [00:11:11] | Squirrely: | cox |
| [00:11:13] | sphery: | Squirrely: see, also, http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/CableCARD |
| [00:11:27] | Squirrely: | ooh thanks. |
| [00:11:34] | Squirrely: | yeah i'ma do some more reading here and there. |
| [00:11:57] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_ . . . leCard_Tuner , too |
| [00:12:02] | Squirrely: | it is only allowed to access those shows the tuner deems as DRM-free. << ah ha, must of skipped over that. |
| [00:15:27] | Squirrely: | yeah i have a DCX-3200M as a stb. set it up using ptp. i set it up a long while ago when i didn't really know what i was doing though, hah. But I do remember that I could get most channels (at least the ones i'm interested in) |
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| [00:16:50] | Squirrely: | so is 5C and the drm copy freely flag one in the same? Well I know they aren't exactly the same but if one is not marked copy freely will it be 5C encrypted over firewire? |
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| [00:17:13] | wagnerrp: | more or less |
| [00:17:27] | wagnerrp: | 5C is just something tacked on by the cable box over firewire |
| [00:17:43] | Squirrely: | mmmk |
| [00:17:45] | wagnerrp: | but triggered by the same things that would result in mythtv not being able to record from a cablecard tuner |
| [00:18:08] | wagnerrp: | in theory... it could be enabled all the time, arbitrarily, by the firmware |
| [00:18:18] | Squirrely: | are premium channels usually only marked non copy freely? (ie hbo) |
| [00:18:31] | wagnerrp: | depends on the provider |
| [00:18:41] | wagnerrp: | verizon and comcast, only the premiums are not copy-freely |
| [00:18:48] | Squirrely: | ahh makes sense. |
| [00:18:53] | wagnerrp: | time warner, near everything is copy protected |
| [00:19:09] | Squirrely: | do you cap via firewire or a cablecard tuner? |
| [00:19:09] | wagnerrp: | cox... not enough information to give a blanket statement |
| [00:19:27] | wagnerrp: | neither |
| [00:19:40] | Squirrely: | yeah, and i do not have a cablecard tuner or my firewire stb rig set up to test. |
| [00:20:11] | Squirrely: | ah :P |
| [00:21:16] | Squirrely: | what container type does mythtv throw a recording into from a cablecard tuner? or it just records the plain transport stream? |
| [00:21:46] | fryguy: | speaking of ceton cablecard, i'm thinking about building a backend node with one of those and a couple of frontends. what's reasonable frontend hardware nowadays that supports both 1080p x264 playback and live 720p playback from. ion? |
| [00:23:57] | wagnerrp: | nothing supports x264 playback |
| [00:24:25] | ** sphery thinks you mean H.264 ** | |
| [00:24:30] | Squirrely: | h264 playback is a dfferent story though ;) |
| [00:24:33] | wagnerrp: | x264 is just an encoder |
| [00:24:55] | Squirrely: | x264 is just an amazing encoder* |
| [00:24:56] | Squirrely: | fixed |
| [00:25:05] | fryguy: | k, so h.264 |
| [00:25:10] | wagnerrp: | the only place youre going to find 1080p h264 is either bluray, or stuff youve encoded yourself |
| [00:25:21] | wagnerrp: | or the rare publicly released video |
| [00:25:27] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: or stuff i've downloaded that's encoded |
| [00:25:39] | wagnerrp: | right, the rare publicly released video |
| [00:25:42] | sphery: | I'm not going to answer the "reasonable frontend hardware" question because my answer is unpopular |
| [00:25:52] | fryguy: | sphery: what's the answer |
| [00:25:56] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: sure, we'll go with that |
| [00:26:10] | fryguy: | anyone have hardware suggestions besides ion? |
| [00:26:16] | wagnerrp: | a real CPU |
| [00:26:22] | sphery: | for me, it's "a real computer, like a core i or Athlon II, coupled with an nvidia video card that supports vdpau" |
| [00:26:31] | sphery: | i.e. not a toy, like an atom |
| [00:26:46] | fryguy: | is > atom actually necessary for just playback if i'm getting vdpau from ion though? |
| [00:27:14] | sphery: | wagnerrp has/had? a nice core i3-based low-power-usage-at-idle-but-plenty-of-head-room system spec'ed out |
| [00:27:57] | sphery: | vdpau is necessary if you have a toy (Atom) instead of a CPU, because it means you won't/can't use the CPU for anything useful |
| [00:27:58] | wagnerrp: | fryguy: its nice to have a real cpu in the event you ever want to do something that cannot be handled by the hardware ASIC |
| [00:28:10] | sphery: | so, it's kind of the opposite of the way you put it |
| [00:28:11] | fryguy: | the main concern here is upfront cost of the frontends, and power usage. I don't mind spending to get a beefy backend box, and I have plenty of centralized storage available. i'm just trying to get as efficient as possible for the frontends |
| [00:28:35] | sphery: | remember that Atom is /not/ power efficient |
| [00:28:40] | sphery: | Atom is power-constrained |
| [00:29:06] | sphery: | it has no appreciable idle power savings, either, so it's using almost the same power whether busy or idling |
| [00:29:35] | sphery: | whereas you can make a nice Core i3 system that idles at less than Atom power usage, but still has headroom to process, when required |
| [00:29:51] | sphery: | hard part, now, though is getting one with nvidia graphics, since nvidia got out of the x86 chipset business |
| [00:30:01] | wagnerrp: | https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWish . . . ber=22474747 |
| [00:30:20] | sphery: | FWIW, this is my manifesto: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/448321#448321 |
| [00:30:24] | fryguy: | sphery: wouldn't have a problem just adding an nvidia card to an existing box. mini-itx isn't a requirement |
| [00:30:42] | wagnerrp: | https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWish . . . ber=18671552 |
| [00:30:45] | sphery: | most important in that link I gave is the links to "See, also, these (old) articles" |
| [00:31:00] | sphery: | which show how to build systems that are more power efficient than atom |
| [00:31:01] | wagnerrp: | actually, that first one would never work... CPU and board were incompatible |
| [00:32:00] | wagnerrp: | fryguy: the general issue is that you may know exactly what you want right now, and you may know that everything will absolutely be covered by VDPAU |
| [00:32:10] | wagnerrp: | but five minutes from now, you want to try out something that isnt, and youre screwed |
| [00:32:16] | fryguy: | what about full remote control (including from fully powered off). I don't actually need a remote, i'll be using a harmony 1 |
| [00:32:29] | wagnerrp: | if you buy an atom, either you go without, or you replace the hardware |
| [00:32:32] | sphery: | and, in truth, atom-based systems /are/ slow in the mythfrontend UI |
| [00:33:06] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: any examples of such things? |
| [00:33:16] | wagnerrp: | anything flash |
| [00:33:23] | wagnerrp: | recordings with errors |
| [00:33:28] | sphery: | including Hulu, Amazon Instant, ... |
| [00:33:36] | sphery: | seeking in normal recordings |
| [00:33:41] | wagnerrp: | video encoded with unsupported parameters |
| [00:33:58] | sphery: | displaying images in the UI (including lots of preview images in watch recordings or whatever) |
| [00:34:03] | fryguy: | ok |
| [00:34:10] | fryguy: | so i3 it is then |
| [00:34:49] | sphery: | but you'll get lots of "it's perfect" from those who spent money on ION boxes--mainly because they've learned to settle/decided to settle so they don't have to admit that ION isn't perfect :) |
| [00:34:57] | fryguy: | what about IR options? I'd like to be able to fully control the box from a logitech harmony |
| [00:35:06] | fryguy: | including powering on from full-off |
| [00:35:28] | sphery: | at this point, it's possible that the Sandy Bridge processors may be easier to come by/cheaper than low-power i3 |
| [00:35:41] | fryguy: | which i'm assuming means I can't really do USB dongles for IR |
| [00:35:51] | sphery: | I don't have any recent Intel on processors :) |
| [00:36:18] | sphery: | I /think/ some mobos have "wake on usb" support, but I've never tried to get it working |
| [00:36:44] | sphery: | I know some people have figured out ways to wake their systems with their remotes, but not sure how |
| [00:37:04] | fryguy: | i _COULD_ live with having to manually power it on for the few times it wouldn't be in suspend mode, but it HAS to be at least wakeable from suspend with the remote |
| [00:37:17] | sphery: | and, btw, good man--the fact that you're saying this implies you'll be shutting the system down when not in use, which is the right thing for anyone to do if they're serious about power savings |
| [00:37:39] | sphery: | yeah, it's quite possible that the ones who are doing it are using wake from suspend |
| [00:37:55] | sphery: | there were some posts on mythtv-users list, and I'm sure there are some in here that have done it |
| [00:38:05] | fryguy: | I guess after it's up and running, it'll just go in and out of suspend whenever I want |
| [00:38:14] | sphery: | if you want to search the lists: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ |
| [00:38:16] | wagnerrp: | sphery: you ever see any of that wiki nonsense about the guy wanting to run a local BOINC server as an alternate jobqueue for some clustered video encoding scheme? |
| [00:38:26] | sphery: | wagnerrp: hehe, only saw your mention of it |
| [00:39:17] | sphery: | definitely far more work than I'd go to (especially when I'm not a fan of transcoding at all :) |
| [00:39:25] | fryguy: | how much horsepower do I need for a backend node? the backend node will just be doing livetv stuff with the ceton cablecard tuner. |
| [00:40:08] | wagnerrp: | the power you need in your backend depends entirely on the scheduler |
| [00:40:21] | fryguy: | actually starting to wonder if maybe it just makes more sense to put a ceton card into each frontend (i'll have 2, MAYBE 3), instead of building a backend |
| [00:40:25] | sphery: | and on how much transcoding and commercial detection you do, and how fast you want them to complete |
| [00:40:39] | wagnerrp: | which in turn depends on how many channels worth of guide data you have, how many recording rules you have querying them, and how many tuners you have to schedule on |
| [00:40:52] | wagnerrp: | general rule of thumb, and standard desktop dual core will suffice |
| [00:40:55] | sphery: | and how much recording history you have |
| [00:41:05] | sphery: | agreed |
| [00:41:05] | wagnerrp: | avoid Atoms (as always), and dont even consider ARMs |
| [00:41:06] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: so again, probably fine with an i3? |
| [00:41:11] | sphery: | dual core desktop = good |
| [00:41:20] | wagnerrp: | easily sufficient |
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| [00:42:31] | fryguy: | 4 tuners, like 100ish hd channels, commercial detection don't really care about much speed wise, probably recording like, do want to be able to quickly rewind/etc on livetv streams |
| [00:42:51] | fryguy: | would it make more sense to just build i3 boxes and put the ceton card in them instead of building another backend? |
| [00:43:11] | fryguy: | since i'm going to have legit hardware in the frontends for it anyway? |
| [00:44:37] | wagnerrp: | you need space for tuner cards and hard drives in your backend(s) |
| [00:44:45] | fryguy: | hard drives will be over nfs |
| [00:44:51] | wagnerrp: | if youre sticking these things next to TVs, you probably wont want to do that |
| [00:45:11] | wagnerrp: | if youre sticking these things in other rooms, or basements, or attics, or whatever... and running cables through the walls, thats not a problem |
| [00:45:23] | fryguy: | so i just need room for the tuner card, which shouldn't be a big deal with micro-atx |
| [00:45:26] | sphery: | main reasons to have dedicated backends: a) to put tons of storage/HDDs out of the way in some non-viewing room (which you can still do with it in a frontend by running cables through/around walls to the TV/speaker/remote receiver), b) having space for tuner cards, c) being able to do what you want with/on the frontend boxes without ever affecting recording (including power off, reboot, use as a desktop, ...) |
| [00:45:44] | wagnerrp: | you have an existing NFS server? why not just shove the tuner cards in there and make that your backend? |
| [00:45:53] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: the nfs server is running freebsd :( |
| [00:46:00] | wagnerrp: | so? |
| [00:46:08] | sphery: | FWIW, I highly recommend micro-atx and putting the box in a different room/closet/cabinet and running cables through the wall or whatever |
| [00:46:12] | fryguy: | ceton doesn't have drivers for freebsd to my knowledge |
| [00:46:33] | wagnerrp: | AIUI, its using a generic network card protocol |
| [00:46:41] | sphery: | saves you tons of money over trying to design for "small, pretty, and quiet" and you get benefits for cooling and such |
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| [00:46:48] | wagnerrp: | or maybe thats just the DCR-2650 |
| [00:47:07] | wagnerrp: | well you can always get an HDHomeRun Prime |
| [00:47:12] | wagnerrp: | three tuners rather than four |
| [00:47:16] | wagnerrp: | and will work just fine on freebsd |
| [00:47:35] | fryguy: | hrmm |
| [00:48:45] | fryguy: | so, homerun prime in freebsd server, run myth backend there, and then just do frontends. so i only have to buy like one piece of hardware to prove the concept, the ceton card |
| [00:48:46] | wagnerrp: | anyway, all the cablecard tuners are nothing more than network devices |
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| [00:49:21] | fryguy: | and then i could build a cheap frontend, and a better frontend (one of these is going ot be going in a bedroom and it clearly won't have any use other than as a TV tuner |
| [00:50:32] | wagnerrp: | it might be worth contacting them |
| [00:50:43] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: any resources for people running homeruns on freebsd? |
| [00:50:53] | wagnerrp: | a look at this driver tarball seems to indicate its more for implementing the communications protocol than the network interface itself |
| [00:51:05] | wagnerrp: | none needed... it "just works" |
| [00:51:25] | wagnerrp: | its a network device, so whether youre using it on freebsd, or linux, or osx... it works exactly the same |
| [00:51:27] | fryguy: | really? doesn't need drivers or anything? |
| [00:51:41] | wagnerrp: | mythtv natively supports the communications protocol |
| [00:51:54] | wagnerrp: | its like how you dont need http drivers to run a web browser |
| [00:52:06] | wagnerrp: | just network access |
| [00:52:38] | sphery: | So, yesterday, AMC Entertainment, Inc announced that they're selling AMC's 5,048 screens in 347 theaters in the US and Canada to the Chinese conblomerate, Dalian Wanda Group. |
| [00:52:55] | sphery: | rumor has it you'll now be able to movies at AMC theaters weeks before they're released |
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| [00:53:12] | sphery: | (bad joke from Tonight Show with Jay Leno) |
| [00:53:55] | wagnerrp: | im more of a Showcase man myself |
| [00:54:06] | wagnerrp: | or whatever that brand is |
| [00:54:18] | sphery: | I like the Rave Theaters--mainly because there's one less than a mile from home :) |
| [00:54:42] | wagnerrp: | well this is like 10 miles from home (the AMC one is much closer) |
| [00:54:44] | wagnerrp: | but its free |
| [00:54:54] | sphery: | seems Showcase is a National Amusements brand |
| [00:55:01] | sphery: | cool |
| [00:55:15] | wagnerrp: | and I AM able to view movies weeks before they're released |
| [00:55:19] | sphery: | is that some school-related thing? or how exactly is it free? |
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| [00:55:43] | wagnerrp: | college friends with one of the managers |
| [00:55:57] | sphery: | hehe |
| [00:56:11] | wagnerrp: | whenever they splice together a real, someone has got to watch it to check for errors |
| [00:56:17] | sphery: | ah, nice |
| [00:56:28] | sphery: | will be bad when they go all digital |
| [00:56:32] | wagnerrp: | for unknown reasons, that includes digital reals |
| [00:56:35] | wagnerrp: | reels |
| [00:56:37] | sphery: | really? |
| [00:56:38] | sphery: | wow |
| [00:56:54] | wagnerrp: | well, likely just because they can, i never asked |
| [00:56:56] | sphery: | I still remember going to a movie that melted in the projector |
| [00:57:01] | wagnerrp: | although they put restrictions on those things |
| [00:57:04] | sphery: | pretty sure that one wasn't digital |
| [00:57:14] | wagnerrp: | the decryption keys are only good for a certain time frame |
| [00:57:44] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: still trying to determine how a cablecard tuner runs without any drivers at all |
| [00:57:45] | wagnerrp: | they might get the movie (comes on a hard drive in a hotswap caddy) weeks ahead of time |
| [00:57:56] | wagnerrp: | fryguy: its a network card |
| [00:58:07] | wagnerrp: | theyre all nothing more than network cards |
| [00:58:13] | wagnerrp: | and mythtv accesses them over the network |
| [00:58:25] | sphery: | http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/ being the easiest to picture example of network card |
| [00:58:38] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: the network card in my box right now has a driver for it, why doesn't this need a driver for it |
| [00:58:41] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Silicondust_HDHomeRun_Prime |
| [00:59:04] | sphery: | if you use HDHR Prime, the driver /is/ the driver for your NIC |
| [00:59:06] | wagnerrp: | the USB and PCIe devices are network cards, with an internal network, connected to a SoC running linux that runs the actual tuner |
| [00:59:39] | fryguy: | so why are linux drivers provided |
| [00:59:41] | fryguy: | what do they do |
| [00:59:57] | wagnerrp: | presumably network drivers |
| [01:00:07] | fryguy: | wouldn't I need those for freebsd |
| [01:00:14] | wagnerrp: | although there is some amount of video specific stuff in there |
| [01:00:16] | wagnerrp: | which is odd |
| [01:00:42] | wagnerrp: | the DCR-2650 (HDHR Prime over USB) is a generic USB network interface device |
| [01:00:59] | wagnerrp: | it needs no drivers, as the drivers already ship with linux |
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| [01:01:10] | wagnerrp: | the infinitv USB may operate in the same manner |
| [01:01:15] | wagnerrp: | i dont know about the infinitv PCIe |
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| [01:02:18] | fryguy: | might just get a homerun then |
| [01:03:14] | fryguy: | it's only a few dollars more |
| [01:03:25] | wagnerrp: | and one less tuner |
| [01:03:36] | wagnerrp: | only three, rather than four |
| [01:03:43] | fryguy: | yah that's not an issue |
| [01:03:52] | fryguy: | if it WERE an issue, could I buy a second one and get 6 tuners? |
| [01:04:11] | wagnerrp: | or theres a rackmount unit that basically does exactly that |
| [01:04:18] | wagnerrp: | two units in a frame with a shared power supply |
| [01:04:33] | fryguy: | i'll just start with 3 tuners, it's unlikely i'll need more than that |
| [01:05:01] | fryguy: | and my NFS server is plenty beefy for this, so i won't have to upgrade hardware I hope (6-core AMD with 16gb of ram) |
| [01:05:08] | wagnerrp: | usually cable content gets replayed several times, and you can pick up repeats |
| [01:05:19] | wagnerrp: | the only trouble is network tv |
| [01:05:28] | fryguy: | i have other sources for recorded content if I need to |
| [01:05:32] | wagnerrp: | but if that becomes a problem, you can always pick up a cheaper clearqam tuner |
| [01:05:39] | fryguy: | i'm much more concerned about watching livetv than recording |
| [01:05:41] | wagnerrp: | or just prop up an antenna |
| [01:05:56] | wagnerrp: | mythtv is generally the opposite |
| [01:06:14] | wagnerrp: | record it when available, watch later at your leisure |
| [01:06:45] | fryguy: | is mythtv smart enough to determine which tuner to use in cases of conflict when some tuners get some channels (OTA HD) and other tuners get more channels? |
| [01:07:17] | wagnerrp: | if configured properly, it will attempt to reschedule to record as much as possible |
| [01:07:32] | fryguy: | what about while watching? |
| [01:07:37] | fryguy: | live |
| [01:08:14] | wagnerrp: | if a recording needs a tuner in use by livetv, it will ask the user for it with an onscreen prompt |
| [01:08:18] | fryguy: | like, let's take an example where I have 1 cablecard tuner, and 1 OTA tuner. I am watching ABC on box 1, and all of a sudden somebody turns on box 2 and wants to watch ESPN. Will the backend know how to switch tuners to support something like this? |
| [01:08:40] | fryguy: | or can I just switch tuners on the frontend? |
| [01:08:57] | wagnerrp: | no, you would have to manually switch tuners on the frontend using it |
| [01:09:04] | wagnerrp: | one livetv instance cannot preempt another |
| [01:09:30] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: but you CAN switch it on the frontend right? |
| [01:09:43] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [01:09:46] | fryguy: | k |
| [01:10:24] | fryguy: | do you happen to know if the hd homerun functions at all without a cablecard in it? |
| [01:10:31] | fryguy: | like, will still tune clearqam or anything |
| [01:10:40] | fryguy: | (would like to prove the concept before renting stuff from provider) |
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| [01:12:15] | fryguy: | nevermind, googling is finding some posts by you that answer this :) |
| [01:14:10] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: do you yourself have a homerun connected to a freebsd box? |
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| [01:29:35] | wagnerrp: | fryguy: yes, just a standard unit, not a prime |
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| [01:31:36] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: so, does it show up as a network device in ifconfig? |
| [01:31:50] | wagnerrp: | why would it? |
| [01:32:40] | wagnerrp: | its a server that sits off on my network |
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| [01:33:16] | wagnerrp: | i was saying the DCR-2650, USB version of the HDHR Prime, operates using a generic USB network device profile that can function without special drivers |
| [01:33:52] | wagnerrp: | but when the HDHR is already on the network, there is no reason for it to appear as a network device |
| [01:33:59] | wagnerrp: | as it is not directly connected to the machine |
| [01:35:19] | Gumby: | hi all, is there a way to figure out why a recording was deleted? I came home today and a bunch of my recordings are gone. I see in mythbackend.log that autoexpire.cpp was called but I am trying to figure out why as I hadnt watched the program yet nor had I deleted it via mythweb |
| [01:38:57] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: ugh, i'm an idiot. I assumed the homerun was the same connectivity as the ceton. So it (can) function as a standalone box, and I can just plug ethernet into my router and I'm done? |
| [01:39:11] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [01:39:31] | wagnerrp: | well.. you would want to plug it into a switch, not a router |
| [01:39:38] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: well, yah |
| [01:39:40] | wagnerrp: | it needs to be on the same network for autodetection to function |
| [01:39:52] | fryguy: | yah, i know networking, that part isn't a problem |
| [01:40:13] | fryguy: | i thought it connected only via usb, like the ceton did, which is why i was getting confused about what you were talking about before |
| [01:40:30] | wagnerrp: | the DCR-2650 is a 2-tuner USB version of the Prime |
| [01:40:52] | fryguy: | this seems like a MUCH better choice for me if I plan on actually using freebsd as the backend |
| [01:41:45] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: are you just using the mythtv port, or did you end up compiling yourself? |
| [01:42:15] | wagnerrp: | ive always compiled myself |
| [01:42:27] | wagnerrp: | technically, using the port is compiling yourself too |
| [01:42:44] | fryguy: | yah, but you know what i mean |
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| [01:42:54] | fryguy: | is the port very out of date or missing anything notable? |
| [01:43:30] | wagnerrp: | really dont know much about it |
| [01:43:44] | wagnerrp: | !seen decke |
| [01:43:44] | MythLogBot: | decke was last seen 555 days 5 hours 24 minutes 9 seconds ago |
| [01:43:51] | wagnerrp: | he would know more |
| [01:44:46] | fryguy: | well, i'm definitely happy i ended up here and asked some questions. This made my path a lot more straightforward. being able to reuse my fileserver is a big win |
| [01:47:22] | fryguy: | next stupid question. Can i do anything with an xbox360 in any of my proposed setups? |
| [01:47:33] | mycosys: | hey guys :) wondering what the status of VAAPI is, is it working well? what does it work well with under myth? |
| [01:48:44] | wagnerrp: | for the most part, it works wellish with a bunch of hardware that doesnt need VAAPI anyway |
| [01:48:51] | wagnerrp: | meaning i3s and i5s |
| [01:49:00] | mycosys: | x4500HD? |
| [01:49:20] | mycosys: | (which doesnt need it either lol) |
| [01:49:21] | wagnerrp: | should support it, dont know if anyone is actually using it |
| [01:49:33] | wagnerrp: | but yeah... thats a higher end Core2 in that board |
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| [01:49:45] | mycosys: | not necessarily |
| [01:50:01] | wagnerrp: | fryguy: mythtv supports streaming its recordings over UPnP, in the format they were recorded in |
| [01:50:12] | wagnerrp: | its up to the device whether or not it can use that |
| [01:50:25] | wagnerrp: | specifically, MPEG2 video, AC3 audio, in a TS container |
| [01:50:26] | mycosys: | was thinkin about popping an e5400 onto the g45 board |
| [01:50:45] | mycosys: | which technically isnt even a core2 lol |
| [01:51:10] | mycosys: | prettly lil dell studio slim |
| [01:51:29] | wagnerrp: | its not? |
| [01:51:38] | mycosys: | pentium technically |
| [01:51:54] | mycosys: | tho is just marketing |
| [01:52:20] | wagnerrp: | its second gen Core2 |
| [01:52:41] | wagnerrp: | just with slightly less memory |
| [01:52:48] | mycosys: | it uses the same architecture |
| [01:53:07] | wagnerrp: | its a Core2 in all but name |
| [01:53:08] | mycosys: | as i said – technically they sold it as a pentium |
| [01:53:20] | mycosys: | hence 'technically' |
| [01:54:14] | mycosys: | really – the main q was for the i5, fater in law wants to use it, tho i have told him a lot there is no real reason to |
| [01:54:32] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: how important is ram on frontends? |
| [01:54:40] | mycosys: | not |
| [01:54:47] | mycosys: | they need stuff all |
| [01:54:53] | fryguy: | i'm probably going to just go with 4gb+ anyway since ram is cheap as hell, but curious |
| [01:54:55] | wagnerrp: | fryguy: not at all... considering its pointless to build any system these days with less than 4GB |
| [01:55:19] | wagnerrp: | ~1GB is a recommended minimum |
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| [02:14:10] | fryguy: | wagnerrp: hrmm, do you think the 2650 is a better deal than the homerun prime? |
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| [02:38:04] | SmallR2002: | does it take a while for files to get deleted via myth? |
| [02:40:34] | [R]: | what version |
| [02:40:54] | SmallR2002: | 0.25 |
| [02:41:20] | SmallR2002: | i just deleted a bunch of stuff but don't see a change on df -H |
| [02:41:23] | [R]: | in 0.25, when you hit delete, it moves it to the deleted group |
| [02:41:31] | [R]: | and after a few minutes (configurable i berlive), it actually deltes it |
| [02:41:42] | SmallR2002: | oh, ok |
| [02:41:59] | SmallR2002: | doesn't bother me much, just trying to free up some space |
| [02:42:51] | SmallR2002: | trying to put off buying another hdd to add to the raid |
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| [03:05:24] | sphery: | SmallR2002: Time to retain deleted recordings (days): Determines the maximum number of days before undeleting a recording will become impossible. A value of zero means the recording will be permanently deleted between 5 and 20 minutes later. A value of minus one means recordings will be retained until space is required. A recording will always be removed before this time if the space is needed for a new recording. |
| [03:06:16] | sphery: | I think it's in the main General settings in mythfrontend |
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| [03:30:55] | Gumby: | sphery: when did this "Time to retain deleted recordings" option come about? I can't seem to find it in stock mythbuntu (0.25.0+fixes.20120410). And where is the default storage location for deleted recordings? |
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| [03:34:41] | tgm4883: | Gumby, Setup > Video > General Page 2 |
| [03:35:21] | Gumby: | ah "video" |
| [03:35:52] | Gumby: | I never think recordings/tv when I see "video" in mythtv for some reason |
| [03:35:56] | Gumby: | thank you |
| [03:36:22] | tgm4883: | yw |
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| [03:44:25] | sphery: | ah, sorry, had the wrong General |
| [03:44:30] | sphery: | should have looked in the code |
| [03:44:50] | sphery: | too many Generals on the battlefield |
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| [05:48:33] | JoshTriplett: | Ever since upgrading to 0.25, I get a large number of what look like buffer underruns. |
| [05:48:42] | JoshTriplett: | On the frontends I get messages like "CoreContext mythplayer.cpp:2079 (PrebufferEnoughFrames) Player(b): Waited 6475ms for video buffers AAuAAAAAALAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUP" |
| [05:48:47] | JoshTriplett: | and "Decoder ringbuffer.cpp:1085 (WaitForAvail) RingBuf(myth://192.168.0.42:6543/2251_20120522223534.mpg): Waited 0.2 seconds for data #012#011#011#011to become available... 22350 < 32768". |
| [05:49:06] | JoshTriplett: | And on the backends, messages similar to the latter. |
| [05:49:19] | JoshTriplett: | (but with paths to files instead of myth:// URLs.) |
| [05:50:21] | JoshTriplett: | I'm trying to figure out the source of this problem (which is seriously impacting family acceptance factor since the upgrade), and I'd appreciate any suggestions for things to check for. |
| [05:51:15] | wagnerrp: | did you upgrade? or reinstall? |
| [05:51:19] | dekarl: | SmallR2002: actually you should be able to just start using the space with something outside mythtv and have recordings deleted automatically to make room. The only downside is that you might get unbalanced deletions on one filesystem while the others are left alone. (aka there's no automatic shuffling recordings around to only delete in the preferred order) |
| [05:51:54] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Upgrade. |
| [05:51:58] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: From 0.22. |
| [05:52:40] | wagnerrp: | so youre still running an old ext3 or xfs OS partition? |
| [05:53:04] | JoshTriplett: | So far, I've come across the messages from mythfrontend complaining about an inability to set the ALSA prebuffer size, which I fixed by manually setting it, and that helped somewhat with audio issues but didn't eliminate the problems entirely. |
| [05:53:05] | JoshTriplett: | Checking... |
| [05:53:21] | JoshTriplett: | Yeah, I'm still running everything on ext3. I've been meaning to upgrade to ext4. |
| [05:58:19] | JoshTriplett: | On a note of unknown relatedness, I'm also observing mythbackend leaking quite a lot of memory (as in, after a handful of days it has 1.5GB virt, much of which gets swapped out, compared to the very small amount of memory it uses when first launched). |
| [05:58:24] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: ^ |
| [06:00:57] | wagnerrp: | virtual memory is just that, virtual |
| [06:01:10] | wagnerrp: | it has no direct bearing on how much is actually being consumed |
| [06:02:48] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: I'm aware. On the other hand, when mythbackend's memory usage grows continuously, and starts consuming all of RAM and all of swap until eventually I have to restart it or reboot, that *does* have a direct bearing on how much is actually consumed. :) |
| [06:03:50] | JoshTriplett: | It currently has 619M resident and hundreds more swapped out. |
| [06:04:43] | JoshTriplett: | (And before I put a swapfile on this system, it would eventually fill up 90+% of RAM and leave almost no room for disk cache, leading to massive performance problems.) |
| [06:06:20] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: In any case, I don't know if the performance problems we currently see relate to the memory usage or to some problem I don't know about yet. |
| [06:07:01] | JoshTriplett: | I'm poking at dstat and iotop, and dstat had some strangely high iowait numbers earlier (as in, up to 50% iowait, which seems quite excessive). |
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| [06:22:56] | ** wagnerrp postulates a theory of solder as a living, hating, lifeform ** | |
| [06:24:31] | wagnerrp: | it behaves in a manner that can only be explained by a conscious entity, actively working against my efforts as it despises my constant probing with a soldering iron |
| [06:24:35] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: I'm fond of that theory. |
| [06:25:03] | Shadow__X: | which logs do i check when Mythvidexport fails? Mythbackend.log just tells me that it fails |
| [06:25:17] | wagnerrp: | the mythvidexport logs |
| [06:26:19] | wagnerrp: | JoshTriplett: check around the mythbuntu forums, there should be a thread about experimentally forcing the scheduler's temporary tables to use myisam, rather than a very poorly configured innodb |
| [06:26:31] | Shadow__X: | i did not find one in the mythtv log folder |
| [06:26:46] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Seriously? Normally I'd expect that to be the other way around. |
| [06:26:47] | wagnerrp: | then it is not configured properly |
| [06:26:55] | JoshTriplett: | What do you mean by a "very poorly configured innodb"? |
| [06:27:16] | wagnerrp: | JoshTriplett: innodb can be much higher performance than myisam, if configured properly |
| [06:27:29] | wagnerrp: | but the configs that nearly (if not) all distros ship with are junk |
| [06:27:35] | wagnerrp: | it]s one of the |
| [06:27:49] | wagnerrp: | reasons for the push towards an embedded database |
| [06:27:58] | JoshTriplett: | That plan certainly seems like a good one to me. |
| [06:27:58] | wagnerrp: | where we would control the settings, and use proper ones |
| [06:28:51] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: In the meantime, if you have an idea of proper innodb settings, I'll happily fix up mysql to use them. I've changed mysql to use innodb for all tables (after some nasty corruption issues with myisam a while back), and I'd love to just fix any junk I still have. |
| [06:29:19] | wagnerrp: | eew... |
| [06:29:32] | wagnerrp: | if youre using innodb, and youve not given mysql a proper configuration |
| [06:29:48] | wagnerrp: | that could very understandably be cause for high IO load |
| [06:30:00] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Oh? What kinds of proper configuration do you have in mind? |
| [06:31:06] | wagnerrp: | http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/ . . . ON0001500000 |
| [06:31:07] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: At the moment, I run Debian's stock mysql configuration, with just two changes: bind-address = 0.0.0.0 (so that the frontends can connect) and default-storage-engine=innodb (so that I don't get massive database corruption any time the frontend shuts down improperly). |
| [06:31:28] | wagnerrp: | im using the my-large.cnf example config, with a number of the sizes halved |
| [06:32:19] | wagnerrp: | i only changed that a few months back, when tinkering with getting trac running through mysql rather than sqlite |
| [06:32:19] | JoshTriplett: | I'll take a look at that. Or, if you have a known-good configuration you could pastebin, I'll happily use that. :) |
| [06:32:34] | ** JoshTriplett doesn't run anything except mythtv through mysql. ** | |
| [06:32:40] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: What'd you use before that? |
| [06:33:00] | wagnerrp: | previously, i hit around 30 minutes trying to transfer the trac sqlite database into mysql, using the default settings, before giving up |
| [06:33:15] | wagnerrp: | i dont actually know how much longer it would have run before finishing |
| [06:33:22] | Shadow__X: | ah i am running 0.7.2 and i see there is 0.7.3 |
| [06:33:44] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: I definitely saw mysql doing oddly large amounts of reading and writing. |
| [06:33:49] | wagnerrp: | after loading the halved my-large.cnf in place of the compiled in defaults (i had no cnf file in place) |
| [06:33:50] | JoshTriplett: | In the MB/s range. |
| [06:34:02] | wagnerrp: | memory consumption jumped about 8–10x what it previously was |
| [06:34:13] | wagnerrp: | and the operation completed in about 100 seconds |
| [06:35:01] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Why the halving? |
| [06:35:08] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Trying to use less memory? |
| [06:35:17] | wagnerrp: | yeah, bit too large for my taste |
| [06:35:38] | wagnerrp: | wth... "THIS API HAS BEEN DISABLED. Please use Pastebin's new API" |
| [06:35:50] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: mysql-large claims to be tuned for a system with 512MB, and I have 2GB... |
| [06:36:01] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [06:36:16] | wagnerrp: | it is tuned for a system with 512MB, where the only thing it does is serve mysql data |
| [06:36:21] | JoshTriplett: | Fair enough. |
| [06:37:04] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: I assume you uncommented some of the settings for innodb? |
| [06:37:04] | wagnerrp: | anyway, i think it was stabilizing at around 350MB usage |
| [06:37:25] | wagnerrp: | http://pastebin.com/R7zEZiVR |
| [06:37:33] | wagnerrp: | now... take this with a bit of trepidation |
| [06:37:40] | wagnerrp: | i have exactly zero idea what im doing |
| [06:37:52] | wagnerrp: | im just poking around in the dark, and hoping for the best |
| [06:37:55] | JoshTriplett: | I'm well into the "can't hurt" phase of debugging. ;) |
| [06:38:16] | JoshTriplett: | Considering that the feedback I'm currently getting on MythTV is somewhere between "major regression" and "unusable". |
| [06:38:51] | wagnerrp: | note that if you converted mythtv's tables over to innodb, expect to have troubles in the future during schema updates |
| [06:39:20] | wagnerrp: | not that you will necessarily, just that youre no longer running the expected |
| [06:39:36] | wagnerrp: | and so what is supposed to happen, and what does happen during testing, may not happen on a different storage engine |
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| [06:42:58] | JoshTriplett: | Sorry, got disconnected. |
| [06:43:17] | wagnerrp: | !url logs |
| [06:43:18] | MythLogBot: | logs: http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/1 |
| [06:43:33] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: I did see the last thing you said. |
| [06:43:39] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Thanks for the pointer to the logs. |
| [06:43:53] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Are you using the configuration you pastebinned with your MythTV setup, or just with Trac? |
| [06:44:05] | JoshTriplett: | (Kinda making the assumption that those aren't running on the same server. :) ) |
| [06:44:16] | wagnerrp: | yes, same server |
| [06:44:43] | JoshTriplett: | code.mythtv.org is your MythTV backend too? |
| [06:44:54] | wagnerrp: | no, just testing |
| [06:44:57] | JoshTriplett: | Ah. |
| [06:45:02] | JoshTriplett: | That makes more sense. :) |
| [06:45:08] | JoshTriplett: | Separate server for production? |
| [06:45:16] | wagnerrp: | looking to see what it would take |
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| [06:45:22] | wagnerrp: | because sqlite sucks |
| [06:45:34] | wagnerrp: | (for large, parallel web applications) |
| [06:45:42] | JoshTriplett: | Agreed, and agreed with the caveat. |
| [06:45:45] | JoshTriplett: | It's nice for embedded. |
| [06:46:11] | JoshTriplett: | (And would probably be a sensible choice for MythTV apart from the massive porting effort that would be required to move from MySQL to a different SQL database.) |
| [06:46:27] | wagnerrp: | we used to have problems where trac would stall for several minutes at a time and become unresponsive, waiting for some mutex in sqlite to time out |
| [06:46:47] | wagnerrp: | someone looked at it ages back, decided it was too simplistic |
| [06:47:19] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: It has become much more sophisticated, though it still isn't a "real" database. |
| [06:48:48] | lis0r: | meh, mysql insufflates a huge bag of dicks, even if it does so through a very refined gold plated diamond encrusted straw |
| [06:49:31] | wagnerrp: | and then theres always the "mysql sucks, use postgres" crowd... :P |
| [06:49:55] | lis0r: | heh, never actually tried postgres |
| [06:50:39] | lis0r: | just overly familiar with butting heads with mysql whenever the TV/server decides to Linux itself |
| [06:51:25] | lis0r: | (Linux: verb, to render oneself inoperable in a manner that requires at least a days worth of swearing, with little than "ert+yr6p" as an error message to go on) |
| [06:51:25] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: I'm going to avoid kicking that particular hornet's nest myself. |
| [06:52:42] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: I'm a big fan of PostgreSQL given a choice of databases, but that doesn't mean I'd advocate porting an application heavily dependent on MySQL to use it without a good reason and a massive transition plan. |
| [06:53:12] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Honestly, the embedded database idea seems preferable to me at this point, particularly given the notion of killing off all non-mythbackend SQL access in favor of the new APIs. |
| [06:53:14] | wagnerrp: | yeah, thats always been the big reason not to |
| [06:53:38] | wagnerrp: | all the little gotchas that result from slightly different SQL syntax |
| [06:53:39] | JoshTriplett: | *That* seems preferable to any system built on the idea that every mythfrontend and mythbackend should chat SQL with the master DB. |
| [06:53:42] | wagnerrp: | but big changes are easy |
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| [06:53:54] | wagnerrp: | its the little things that would cause problems for several versions down the line |
| [06:54:21] | wagnerrp: | the question of embedding is how youre going to manage the data |
| [06:54:45] | wagnerrp: | do you make the transition whole hog, and require all plugins to be split with frontend and database/backend components |
| [06:55:10] | wagnerrp: | or do it slowly, and allow proxying through the internal protocol for some amount of time |
| [06:55:30] | wagnerrp: | proxying is easier, but with the risk that no one will ever bother to rewrite it properly, as it works well enough as is |
| [06:57:18] | wagnerrp: | and of course theres going to be the wailing and gnashing of teeth among the users when their tinkering sql interface is gone |
| [06:57:41] | wagnerrp: | theyre going to have to write code, compile it, and load it into the master backend anytime they want to issue raw sql |
| [06:57:54] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Assuming that no debugging proxy interface exists. |
| [06:58:32] | wagnerrp: | well the key term there is debugging, not tinkering |
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| [06:58:40] | JoshTriplett: | Right. |
| [06:58:47] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: You could always have a pure-text proxy protocol, so that humans can use it but no sane programmer would attempt to use it. |
| [06:58:55] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: (Not that there aren't insane programmers out there...) |
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| [06:59:08] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Effectively, something more like the mysql text prompt. |
| [06:59:27] | wagnerrp: | formatting and all? |
| [06:59:46] | Shadow__X: | http://pastebin.com/W0QNJsu1 I copied the neweest Mythvidexport.py but i still do not see a log being created |
| [06:59:52] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: To the extent you want to implement it, but in any case intended for human and not programmatic consumption. |
| [07:00:02] | Shadow__X: | i am using .25 fixes |
| [07:00:04] | JoshTriplett: | (Human or shell-script-level tooling at most, anyway.) |
| [07:00:07] | ** wagnerrp just imagines awk one-liners being passed around the mailing list for people to embed in their scripts ** | |
| [07:00:23] | wagnerrp: | Shadow__X: the one from the wiki? or the one from my github repo? |
| [07:00:32] | Shadow__X: | wiki |
| [07:00:44] | Shadow__X: | is that the wrong one? |
| [07:00:55] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: I'd tend to say dive into the transition at the start of a development cycle, and make sure all the frontend and plugin code you care about gets converted by the end of that cycle. |
| [07:01:19] | wagnerrp: | https://github.com/wagnerrp/mythtv-scripts/ma . . . videxport.py |
| [07:01:40] | wagnerrp: | also, youll want to change the user job to "mythvidexport.py %VERBOSEMODE% %JOBID%" |
| [07:02:08] | wagnerrp: | yeah, thats sphery's position, and hes the one who has really been pushing for it the last year or two |
| [07:02:44] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp: is this the right one https://github.com/wagnerrp/mythtv-scripts/bl . . . videxport.py ? the link you gave me didnt work |
| [07:02:59] | wagnerrp: | probably |
| [07:03:03] | wagnerrp: | i typed it in manually |
| [07:03:13] | Shadow__X: | ah ok thanks i really appreciate it |
| [07:03:14] | wagnerrp: | copy/paste doesnt seem to work too well over synergy over xpra |
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| [07:03:29] | wagnerrp: | s/too well/at all/ |
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| [07:08:07] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp: do you use xpra to have persistent xchat sessions? |
| [07:08:21] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [07:08:31] | Shadow__X: | ah ok neat |
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| [07:12:01] | Shadow__X: | ok using the mythvidexport you linked to and now the error i get is dict object has no attribute job |
| [07:12:12] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Wow. I had no idea that mythtv had logging to the DB enabled; I have a fairly huge logging table. |
| [07:12:29] | wagnerrp: | it expires after two weeks |
| [07:12:48] | JoshTriplett: | Then apparently I get 143312 logging messages in 2 weeks. :) |
| [07:13:04] | wagnerrp: | and if an excessive backlog builds up, it is automatically squelched until the log rate dies back down |
| [07:13:44] | JoshTriplett: | This would be an interesting vicious cycle, if the backend was too busy writing out "can't get data fast enough" messages to provide data fast enough. ;) |
| [07:14:10] | JoshTriplett: | In any case, it seems slightly redundant that I'm currently logging to three different places. |
| [07:14:23] | JoshTriplett: | (console, syslog, and database) |
| [07:14:33] | [R]: | so turn 1 2 or 3 of them off |
| [07:14:37] | wagnerrp: | well console doesnt really log anywhere |
| [07:14:44] | wagnerrp: | other than memory buffer |
| [07:14:59] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: .xsession-errors on frontends. I know because .xsession-errors filled up a frontend's disk the other day. :) |
| [07:15:14] | JoshTriplett: | Probably nowhere on backends, sure. |
| [07:15:22] | JoshTriplett: | (Assuming a system not running a stdout-to-syslog bridge.) |
| [07:15:30] | JoshTriplett: | Which mine doesn't. |
| [07:15:49] | wagnerrp: | which WOULD be redundant, when mythtv can log directly to syslog itself |
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| [07:16:32] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Or, alternatively, would be redundant since mythtv wouldn't have to. |
| [07:16:46] | JoshTriplett: | But either way, yeah. |
| [07:17:10] | wagnerrp: | well there is a log viewer built into the backend web page |
| [07:17:18] | wagnerrp: | allowing you to view logs independently of the filesystem |
| [07:17:36] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: True, when the backend is working. :) |
| [07:17:38] | wagnerrp: | and the smolt hardware profiler uses the database logs to track scheduler runs |
| [07:18:01] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Sometimes I'm looking at the logs because the backend *isn't* working, in which case syslog is wildly useful. :) |
| [07:18:07] | wagnerrp: | providing a metric as to how many people are running marginal hardware (or decent hardware with poor settings) |
| [07:18:46] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Just to make sure, what version of mysql did you write this config file for? |
| [07:18:49] | wagnerrp: | actually, now im curious as to what that has collected, as it is not yet being displayed |
| [07:19:00] | wagnerrp: | 5..... 2? |
| [07:19:00] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: I have 5.1 here, and some of the options seem to have different names. |
| [07:19:02] | wagnerrp: | .1 or .2 |
| [07:19:30] | wagnerrp: | 5.1.42 |
| [07:20:30] | JoshTriplett: | Huh. |
| [07:20:46] | JoshTriplett: | Looks like the option names are just fine, actually; it's the system my.cnf that has older names for them. |
| [07:20:46] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp: should i post the log? |
| [07:20:48] | JoshTriplett: | How odd... |
| [07:21:10] | wagnerrp: | pastebin would be fine |
| [07:21:39] | ServerSage: | I don't understand why so many people use MythTV to watch live tv. It seems like there is a live tv related question on the mailing list at least once a week. |
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| [07:22:20] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: Why do you find it so mystifying? |
| [07:22:33] | [R]: | livetv is so 1980s |
| [07:22:55] | ServerSage: | JoshTriplett: Yeah, what [R] said. |
| [07:23:19] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: It makes a bit of sense in a few cases. |
| [07:23:25] | ServerSage: | JoshTriplett: Name one. |
| [07:23:38] | cocoa117: | ServerSage, liveSports? |
| [07:23:49] | ServerSage: | cocoa117: Can't record live sports? Next. |
| [07:24:00] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: News. Weather. |
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| [07:24:13] | [R]: | i recorded the news last night |
| [07:24:16] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: Live event of any kind, assuming you'd rather actually see it when it happens. |
| [07:24:16] | ServerSage: | JoshTriplett: Oh, right. Forgot, can't record news and weather. Guess I'm doing it wrong. |
| [07:24:35] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp: http://pastebin.com/Vx2RvLn9 thanks again for the help |
| [07:24:37] | [R]: | it was about ron jeremy wanting to move to phoenisx |
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| [07:24:39] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: Yes, you *can* record them (or in those two cases, get them from better sources), but not if you want them live. ;) |
| [07:24:39] | cocoa117: | ServerSage, don't have space to record? |
| [07:24:51] | [R]: | cocoa117: myth is always recording |
| [07:24:57] | ServerSage: | cocoa117: You do realize livetv is recording, right? |
| [07:25:02] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: Shockingly, some people do seem to care about the current news and current weather. |
| [07:25:17] | [R]: | people seriously watch tv for weather? |
| [07:25:18] | [R]: | lol |
| [07:25:19] | ServerSage: | JoshTriplett: I watch the news every night. I haven't watched it live in 10 years. |
| [07:25:37] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: And they find it easier to go to "Watch TV" and pick the weather or news channel than to mark it to record and play it back. |
| [07:25:39] | ServerSage: | I really just dno't get it. |
| [07:25:59] | ServerSage: | JoshTriplett: See, laziness might be a reason. |
| [07:26:15] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: I personally don't watch TV news or weather either; I don't have the patience for them compared to getting both from the Internet. That doesn't mean I can't understand why others would prefer TV sources. |
| [07:26:33] | wagnerrp: | yikes... |
| [07:26:49] | wagnerrp: | 1205 matches, with an average scheduler runtime of 538 seconds |
| [07:27:02] | [R]: | isn't that a few minutes too long? |
| [07:27:02] | ** JoshTriplett goes back to setting up this new my.cnf ** | |
| [07:27:11] | JoshTriplett: | Sounds about 537 seconds too long. |
| [07:27:13] | ServerSage: | JoshTriplett:I just think live tv support should take a back seat, back of the bus, etc... No reason it should even be supported. |
| [07:27:30] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: Why, given the new mechanisms to treat it almost identically to a recording? |
| [07:27:47] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: It's just a special-purpose interface to say "go start recording this channel, mark it as autoexpire, and watch it". |
| [07:32:17] | ServerSage: | Those mechanisms aren't there by magic, just think of where myth would be if people just woke up and smelled the coffee. You know, LEAPED into the year 2000 and recorded stuff instead of watching it live. |
| [07:32:50] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: What do you think MythTV could do differently by dropping live TV support? |
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| [07:34:17] | ServerSage: | JoshTriplett: Any one of the gajillion things on the wish-list, to-do list, and bug list. *shrug* Like I said, I just don't understand it. Wasn't trying to start a flame war, more looking for a reason. And it appears there really isn't one. |
| [07:34:55] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: I could easily understand removing the support if doing so would allow some awesomeness that would otherwise not work. It just doesn't seem like a net win to remove it if not. |
| [07:35:53] | ServerSage: | JoshTriplett: I never said drop support. My point was one of "Why do people do this", not "Why do the devs focus on this". |
| [07:36:04] | JoshTriplett: | Ah. |
| [07:36:09] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: Fair enough. |
| [07:36:21] | ServerSage: | Why have MythTV if you want to watch TV like my 89 year old Grandma. lol |
| [07:36:42] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: I think you might have just answered your own question. And pull it forward one generation, too. :) |
| [07:36:55] | ServerSage: | lol |
| [07:37:03] | JoshTriplett: | Most things are best watched recorded. Some things still get watched live. :) |
| [07:38:08] | ServerSage: | But WHY do they get watched live? lol. I mean, is it just a mind set that you HAVE to see it as it happens? If so, it's moderately ignorant since most TV, even *live* TV, is delayed by 5 seconds. |
| [07:39:38] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: Don't think of it as "must get watched live". |
| [07:39:52] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: Think of it as "I don't want to set up a regular recording rule for this, I just want to watch it". |
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| [07:40:55] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: I'm not talking about regularly recording the evening news; I'm talking about "I'm sitting here and I'd like some news right now". Or in the case of weather, "I'd like to flip to the weather channel for 2 minutes before going out". |
| [07:41:12] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: How would that fit with a "record everything" model? |
| [07:42:10] | ServerSage: | Perhaps living in silicon valley has tainted my outlook. For news and weather NOW I just use one of 80 different ways to get it, other than the TV. |
| [07:42:17] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: So do I. |
| [07:42:26] | JoshTriplett: | ServerSage: Now, the key question: how old are you? :) |
| [07:42:41] | ServerSage: | Old enough to tell the kids to get off my lawn. |
| [07:42:59] | JoshTriplett: | Significantly older than 27? :) |
| [07:43:52] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp: do i still need to edit out parts of Video::get_meta() on mythvidexport? |
| [07:43:53] | JoshTriplett: | Because I can vouch for there existing a generational difference here. |
| [07:44:12] | wagnerrp: | i believe ive fixed that in the bindings |
| [07:44:12] | JoshTriplett: | (With exceptions, I'm sure.) |
| [07:44:16] | wagnerrp: | but ive not tested it |
| [07:44:26] | ServerSage: | Nah, just old enough to be crabby. 34. But I'm not sure age has anything to do with it. My father and mother (different house holds) don't watch live TV. Honestly, the ONLY people I know who watch Live TV are those without cable, and my grand mother. lol |
| [07:44:38] | Shadow__X: | what that be cuasing the issue that i am experiencing? |
| [07:45:08] | ServerSage: | Those without cable are the ones that don't care about TV, it's just background noise. They'd be just as happy with a DVD playing, or even just a radio. |
| [07:45:28] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: OK, this is exciting: "mysqld: InnoDB: Error: log file ./ib_logfile0 is of different size 0 5242880 bytes" "mysqld: InnoDB: than specified in the .cnf file 0 67108864 bytes!" |
| [07:46:02] | ** JoshTriplett hopes he doesn't have a dump and reload ahead. ** | |
| [07:46:13] | ServerSage: | That seems like a un-fun error. |
| [07:46:46] | wagnerrp: | still got your old my.cnf? |
| [07:47:40] | wagnerrp: | put the old cnf file back in place |
| [07:47:43] | wagnerrp: | start the server up |
| [07:47:54] | wagnerrp: | perform a "safe termination", whatever that means |
| [07:48:01] | wagnerrp: | and start back up with the new cnf |
| [07:48:20] | wagnerrp: | apparently the default behavior is to perform a fast or "unsafe" termination |
| [07:48:32] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: In my case, I did a safe system shutdown and reboot. |
| [07:48:33] | wagnerrp: | which means it must scan those log files on startup, rather than shutdown |
| [07:48:37] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Sigh. |
| [07:48:40] | wagnerrp: | not system, mysql |
| [07:48:44] | JoshTriplett: | Yeah, I know. |
| [07:48:53] | JoshTriplett: | I guess I'd hope that /etc/init.d/mysql stop would do a safe shutdown. |
| [07:48:55] | JoshTriplett: | Guess not. |
| [07:49:26] | wagnerrp: | someone who actually knows what they're doing might be able to give a better explanation |
| [07:49:54] | JoshTriplett: | Found what I needed. |
| [07:49:55] | JoshTriplett: | https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/innod . . . uration.html |
| [07:50:11] | JoshTriplett: | https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/innod . . . ast_shutdown |
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| [07:59:42] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp: any ideas> |
| [07:59:44] | wagnerrp: | sphery: some interesting, if not particularly meaningful, data... |
| [08:00:03] | wagnerrp: | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pEtYrS00 |
| [08:00:25] | wagnerrp: | thats duration and variation in scheduler runes |
| [08:00:42] | wagnerrp: | however note, there is no guarantee these measurements are actually on the CPU listed |
| [08:01:05] | wagnerrp: | Shadow__X: you ever post the traceback? |
| [08:02:01] | Shadow__X: | is this it? http://pastebin.com/Vx2RvLn9 |
| [08:02:36] | wagnerrp: | eew.... |
| [08:02:54] | wagnerrp: | i need to figure out a cleaner way of posting a traceback to syslog |
| [08:03:35] | wagnerrp: | why is that a dict... |
| [08:06:50] | wagnerrp: | Shadow__X: do you have a jobid for this handy? |
| [08:07:28] | Shadow__X: | it was userjob 5467 |
| [08:08:09] | wagnerrp: | run 'mythpython', and 'import lxml |
| [08:08:47] | Shadow__X: | ok then exit? |
| [08:08:53] | wagnerrp: | then... print lxml.etree.tostring(Recorded.fromJob(Job(5467)).exportMetadata().toXML(), pretty_print=True) |
| [08:09:09] | wagnerrp: | there should be a block of people/person |
| [08:09:19] | wagnerrp: | do the person elements have a job attribute? |
| [08:09:31] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Most of the problem there is the various instances of #012 that should become newlines. :) |
| [08:09:31] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/012 ** | |
| [08:09:53] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: You really want to take each line separately and send it to syslog. |
| [08:10:16] | wagnerrp: | JoshTriplett: i know, mythtv's logger does the same thing |
| [08:10:17] | JoshTriplett: | The same goes for other non-traceback bits, which frequently have #012 and #011. |
| [08:10:17] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/012 ** | |
| [08:10:17] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/011 ** | |
| [08:10:21] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Yup. |
| [08:10:24] | wagnerrp: | its showing up all over various logs |
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| [08:12:02] | Shadow__X: | this is what comes up http://pastebin.com/kDxPkY19 |
| [08:12:54] | Shadow__X: | ah yeah they have job=actor executive producer |
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| [08:18:58] | ** wagnerrp heads to bed ** | |
| [08:19:21] | Shadow__X: | gn wagnerrp |
| [08:19:23] | ** wagnerrp suggests Shadow__X update ** | |
| [08:19:47] | Shadow__X: | thank you again have a good night |
| [08:20:18] | wagnerrp: | jya: im assuming youre done with this jail? |
| [08:20:26] | JoshTriplett: | wagnerrp: Thanks for all the help. |
| [08:20:29] | wagnerrp: | you dont appear connected any longer |
| [08:20:49] | wagnerrp: | im killing it |
| [08:21:30] | wagnerrp: | its still around and can be started back up if needed, but is currently offline |
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| [09:13:27] | jya: | wagnerrp: I am yes... |
| [09:13:31] | jya: | for this time |
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| [09:13:47] | mrt2k10: | hi, i cant connect to my mythtv backend if the frontend is on another computer. more precisely, i can connect, but when i want to watch tv, nothing happens |
| [09:13:58] | mrt2k10: | i don't see any errors in mythbackend.log |
| [09:14:04] | mrt2k10: | ip addresses are correct, the service is listening on the necessary interfaces... |
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| [09:39:51] | mrt2k10: | With verbose output on the backend: GetChannelData() failed because it could not find channel number '30703' in DB for source '1'. |
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