| Tuesday, May 15th, 2012, 00:12 UTC | ||
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| [00:21:37] | jst_: | hey guys, i'm getting this error: http://pastebin.com/8hbNM1Ju |
| [00:22:01] | jst_: | that's the right mc.sql file... cp'd it over from the correct directory |
| [00:23:30] | wagnerrp: | hah, no... thats not the right file |
| [00:24:27] | jst_: | /usr/share/doc/mythtv-docs-0.25/database/mc.sql |
| [00:25:08] | jst_: | mysql -u root < /usr/share/doc/mythtv-docs-0.25/database/mc.sql |
| [00:25:16] | jst_: | gives me the exact same error |
| [00:25:17] | wagnerrp: | but apparently its some kind of image, produced by image magick |
| [00:25:45] | jst_: | hmm, maybe i should download mc.sql from elsewhere |
| [00:26:08] | wagnerrp: | here is the correct file... http://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/tree/mythtv/database/mc.sql |
| [00:26:15] | wagnerrp: | i have no idea what that is youre feeding into mysql |
| [00:27:08] | wagnerrp: | why wont you just stay banned.... |
| [00:27:32] | jst_: | me? |
| [00:27:41] | wagnerrp: | see recent changes on the wiki |
| [00:29:39] | jst_: | uhh |
| [00:29:44] | jst_: | still getting an error |
| [00:29:44] | jst_: | ERROR 1064 (42000) at line 1: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.' at line 1 |
| [00:30:09] | jst_: | is it a bug maybe? |
| [00:30:31] | wagnerrp: | well now youre trying to feed HTML into mysql |
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| [00:31:06] | jst_: | ahh |
| [00:31:13] | wagnerrp: | here is the plain text file... http://code.mythtv.org/cgit/mythtv/plain/mythtv/database/mc.sql |
| [00:31:51] | jst_: | herp, derp |
| [00:32:02] | jst_: | worked! |
| [00:32:08] | jst_: | thank you, as always |
| [00:32:51] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: you around? |
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| [00:40:45] | the_lord: | Hello, I need some help getting audio on mythtv |
| [00:41:15] | the_lord: | I have it perfectly set outside mythtv, every app has audio |
| [00:41:43] | the_lord: | but it just doesn't work on mythtv |
| [00:41:58] | the_lord: | anyone here who can help me debug this? |
| [00:42:11] | wagnerrp: | chances are issues with pulseaudio |
| [00:42:28] | the_lord: | I don't use pulseaudio |
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| [00:42:57] | wagnerrp: | youre positive the pulseaudio daemon is not running? |
| [00:43:11] | the_lord: | I don't have pulseaudio installed |
| [00:43:33] | wagnerrp: | then go into the audio setup in the frontend, have it scan for available devices, and select the proper one |
| [00:44:06] | the_lord: | wagnerrp, if that instructions worked, I would be watching live tv from my pc |
| [00:44:20] | the_lord: | but they don't work |
| [00:44:45] | the_lord: | speaker-test -D plughw:2,3 gives me some static on the tv |
| [00:45:07] | the_lord: | and setting ALSA:plughw:2,3 doesn't work on mythtv |
| [00:45:39] | wagnerrp: | you typed that in? or you selected it from the list? |
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| [00:45:48] | wagnerrp: | im not sure if the syntax mythtv uses will be exactly the same |
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| [00:46:46] | the_lord: | I'ce tried typing, selecting, everything |
| [00:46:51] | the_lord: | *I've |
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| [01:03:29] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: am now |
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| [01:03:51] | wagnerrp: | did i ever ask you a while back if we had a private repo? |
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| [01:05:40] | hi^: | question about limux ? |
| [01:07:30] | hi^: | how hard is it to load linux and get it working. |
| [01:08:27] | wagnerrp: | most people in here are going to find it very easy |
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| [01:09:15] | hi^: | have not used it for a few years will it work with most hardware ? |
| [01:09:31] | wagnerrp: | most standard hardware, yes |
| [01:09:38] | wagnerrp: | things like tuenr cards.... |
| [01:09:41] | wagnerrp: | !url tuners |
| [01:09:41] | MythLogBot: | tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information |
| [01:12:13] | hi^: | my tuner will work :) |
| [01:13:08] | hi^: | what is current version of linux to install ? |
| [01:13:35] | wagnerrp: | linux is nothing but a kernel |
| [01:13:53] | wagnerrp: | recent would be 3.2 and 3.3 |
| [01:14:13] | hi^: | can you dual boot with windows ? |
| [01:14:31] | sphery: | but if Linux works hard, and shows strong leadership, perhaps one day he'll be promoted to General |
| [01:15:06] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: yes, we have several |
| [01:15:09] | sphery: | (ignore my stupid military-rank-based joke) |
| [01:15:38] | wagnerrp: | one to put wiki extensions in? |
| [01:15:44] | Beirdo: | sphery: more likely get demoted to Private because he refused to kiss General Gates' arse |
| [01:15:55] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: we can easily make one |
| [01:15:55] | sphery: | hehe |
| [01:16:42] | hi^: | used one called red hat |
| [01:17:03] | wagnerrp: | no longer exists |
| [01:17:11] | wagnerrp: | it changed styles |
| [01:17:20] | hi^: | what version need now |
| [01:17:27] | wagnerrp: | now its a fedora |
| [01:20:17] | hi^: | ok see it mostly plug and play |
| [01:20:42] | hi^: | anything else need to know ? |
| [01:25:50] | hi^: | most everyone on this channel run linux |
| [01:26:13] | wagnerrp: | considering mythtv is of little use on anything but linux, yes |
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| [01:30:29] | hi^: | I have computer just for tv use it for netflix and hulu and espn what other good linux programs are there |
| [01:30:56] | wagnerrp: | nothing, and any web browser |
| [01:31:30] | hi^: | does it not have web browser in it |
| [01:32:02] | wagnerrp: | mythfrontend has a browser plugin that can be used for hulu and espn3 |
| [01:32:15] | wagnerrp: | and mythnetvision has a grabber to allow cleaner access to hulu |
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| [01:32:27] | wagnerrp: | but netflix can only be used on windows and osx |
| [01:32:32] | wagnerrp: | there is no linux support at all |
| [01:32:52] | hi^: | oh |
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| [01:34:55] | wagnerrp: | netflix uses silverlight for DRM, which is only available on windows and osx |
| [01:35:15] | wagnerrp: | linux has moonlight, which is a re-implementation capable of most of its abilities |
| [01:35:27] | wagnerrp: | but being open source, it cannot be given DRM keys |
| [01:35:38] | wagnerrp: | and so is not able to access DRM'd netflix content |
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| [01:41:53] | holists: | any chance xris is listening? |
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| [02:11:07] | k-man: | wagnerrp, thats interesting – i had no idea there was anyone actually using silverlight – i wonder of MS pays them to use it? |
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| [04:46:28] | xris: | holists: I am now (was without a computer at home for a couple days — it's back now) |
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| [05:01:50] | ** wagnerrp really wishes he knew a way to get across the point that none of these reasons people have for running virtual machines are for features actually provided by virtual machines ** | |
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| [05:21:02] | dekarl1: | wagnerrp: I understood the redhat person to mean "I have to support/use this specific virtualization tool at work and practice it on my mythv backend", sounds like a good reason |
| [05:21:07] | dekarl1 is now known as dekarl | |
| [05:24:51] | wagnerrp: | i didnt understand the "ill try not to feed the trolls" |
| [05:25:20] | dekarl: | he mentions the other support reason two. he/she is using the shrink wrapped mythbuntu as an appliance on his employers distribution of choice |
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| [05:26:05] | wagnerrp: | is it really that difficult to install other distros to a chroot? |
| [05:26:13] | dekarl: | the "I won't feed the trolls" seems like a decoy :) The 1st reason for bakcend virtualization is to be able to turn off frontends, sounds strange |
| [05:26:41] | wagnerrp: | i mean gentoo, the whole install process is done in a chroot |
| [05:27:04] | wagnerrp: | on freebsd, its trivial to jump into a chroot and fire up sysinstall to install a fresh root |
| [05:27:20] | dekarl: | wagnerrp: I only know of two OS where that is easy, Sun Solaris with the zone setup thingy and *BSD. Its just uncommon on Linux, so not supported well by the communioties (just a guess) |
| [05:28:29] | wagnerrp: | so is my opinion just skewed by using an OS with a purpose built framework for easy isolation without virtualization? |
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| [05:29:17] | wagnerrp: | "if i can do it here, surely i can do it on other POSIX systems" sort of thing? |
| [05:29:23] | dekarl: | I think thats one of the main differences between the BSD / GPL camps... (on top of their suffering from a strong NIH syndrome) but I won't feed the trolls :D |
| [05:30:12] | dekarl: | Linux is about getting somewhere, BSD is about getting there in a nice/proper way. |
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| [05:30:43] | wagnerrp: | well to be fair, too much linux stuff is gpl only, and not compatible for re-licensing in the free BSD license |
| [05:30:49] | wagnerrp: | :P |
| [05:31:33] | dekarl: | but who would want that code anyway... The only interesting bits are desktop/multimedia drivers... Hey, they are in the ports, too ;) |
| [05:33:17] | dekarl: | Hmm, still no FreeNAS MythTV master backend distribution out there? I'd love to move my backend over to that... but virtualization point #1 counts here, too. I appreciate the support I get on Mythbuntu (and think its a good idea to support the mythbuntu user base, too) |
| [05:33:17] | ** MythLogBot http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/1 ** | |
| [05:34:28] | wagnerrp: | nah, been meaning to look into that |
| [05:35:28] | wagnerrp: | sadly, i dont currently have a system that meets their recommended minimums |
| [05:39:48] | dekarl: | A nice box built to new standards (ECC, memory for ZFS, an SSD + disks) and sold in volume (to keep the price down) would be nice. Maybe as demo system for the new MIPS cpu/chipsets that I hear about on freebsd-mips. |
| [05:40:34] | dekarl: | basically what they do with raspberry/olpc, but one order of magnitude larger |
| [05:41:26] | wagnerrp: | has anyone tried to compile mythtv on mips? |
| [05:41:53] | wagnerrp: | i think the only system where that might even be a possibility is one of those dreamboxes |
| [05:42:19] | wagnerrp: | since just about everything else is either going to be too old (and slow), or a locked down commercial unit |
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| [05:50:02] | dekarl: | hmm, seems theres no products yet :( e.g. http://www.netlogicmicro.com/Solutions/Storage.asp add a dvb-[CST] card to the mini-pcie slot with up to 6 frontends on daughterboards, only two 3tb disk drives in the small unit and you are set with a nice small decidacted backend system. |
| [05:52:24] | wagnerrp: | yikes, no way |
| [05:53:30] | wagnerrp: | pretty sure my P3 laptop could run circles around that thing |
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| [05:56:56] | wagnerrp: | dual core performance off that MIPS might beat out my P3 |
| [05:57:07] | wagnerrp: | but the scheduler is single threaded, so my P3 wins |
| [05:57:18] | wagnerrp: | not to mention it has almost double the memory bandwidth |
| [05:57:34] | wagnerrp: | 466Mbps off a DDR2? surely that must be a typo |
| [05:57:46] | wagnerrp: | they have to mean 466MHz bus... |
| [05:57:51] | dekarl: | how does that sound? Dual Cavium OcteonPlus CN5860-SCP 800 MHz, MIPS64 Processors with 16 cores each |
| [05:58:04] | dekarl: | but the single threaded argument still holds |
| [05:58:08] | wagnerrp: | yeah |
| [05:58:24] | wagnerrp: | 16 cores? or 4 cores 16 threads? |
| [05:58:38] | wagnerrp: | those chips all seemed to be 4-way SMT |
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| [05:59:36] | dekarl: | But all I can find is networking appliances with note SATA ports |
| [06:00:06] | wagnerrp: | this page has got to be wrong... http://www.netlogicmicro.com/Products/MultiCo . . . %20Guide.htm |
| [06:00:39] | wagnerrp: | you just cant service that amount of IO with only 800Mbps of memory bandwidth |
| [06:00:57] | wagnerrp: | it has to be MHz |
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| [06:01:49] | dekarl: | mbps = megabyte per second? (at least thats how I read the memory units, b=byte, bit=bit ;) |
| [06:02:07] | wagnerrp: | b=bit, B=byte |
| [06:02:24] | dekarl: | ahh yes, "B" and "bit" |
| [06:02:25] | wagnerrp: | and even still, PC100 is 800MBps |
| [06:03:08] | dekarl: | but 800MHz * (4*32bit + 2*64bit) sounds better |
| [06:03:49] | wagnerrp: | 72bit |
| [06:03:55] | wagnerrp: | and 36bit |
| [06:03:59] | dekarl: | thats ECC, right? |
| [06:04:28] | wagnerrp: | sounds right, 4x(8+1) |
| [06:04:40] | dekarl: | so theoreticaly net bandwidth would be ~25GByte/s |
| [06:05:03] | wagnerrp: | sounds right for DDR2 |
| [06:05:11] | dekarl: | hm, or in binary units exactly 24Gbyte/s |
| [06:05:55] | ** dekarl is just getting up, so if my maths doesnt add up thats no surprise :) ** | |
| [06:07:35] | wagnerrp: | well one of these could probably have no trouble handling the scheduler with the one miniPCIe tuner you could install |
| [06:08:47] | wagnerrp: | i still think theres a lot that could be done, precomputing duplicates and similar to cut scheduler times |
| [06:09:20] | wagnerrp: | do it in mythfilldatabase, or as the data trickles in off EIT |
| [06:09:34] | wagnerrp: | rather than on demand during the scheduler run |
| [06:09:53] | dekarl: | couldnt the scheduler be encapsulated to be an atomic operation? |
| [06:10:18] | dekarl: | I still don't fully understand why long scheduler run times are an issue |
| [06:10:28] | wagnerrp: | im not certain |
| [06:10:56] | wagnerrp: | but at some point, the backend holds waiting on the scheduler, before issuing recording tasks |
| [06:11:30] | ** wagnerrp just works elsewhere ** | |
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| [06:17:12] | dekarl: | I only noticed that messing with the guide data while recordings are in progress can lead to truncated recordings, I learned that when I started to reload my guide every 15 minutes after progress on the server side, back when I started with my own guide :) |
| [06:19:36] | dekarl: | sounds like a small package from the 7k family might make a nice backend component http://www.cavium.com/OCTEON_MIPS64.html |
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| [06:27:12] | ** dekarl heads of to work, wondering why all the cool mips pages appear to be in russian or japanese. The english ones are either very small systems or network appliances ** | |
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| [07:45:10] | lautriv: | dekarl, heh, nice one tell me if you know a board ;) |
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| [10:57:38] | mzb is now known as mzb_ | |
| [11:21:33] | rileyp: | i want to do a clean install of 12.04 mythtbuntu on a seperate partition I currently have 10.04 installed Can I reuse my existing /var /opt and /home partitions or will they break if I use them for both installs until I'm at a stage I don't need the 10.04 system any longer as everything is as I require on the 12.04 install. |
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| [12:22:12] | Twiggy2cents: | rileyp, you could dd and tar your sg's and home and merge them after the clean install. What do you have in opt that you want to save? |
| [12:30:03] | rileyp: | nah i had ltsp boot runnig for a while but that will need updating anyhow |
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| [12:31:44] | lautriv: | meh, this issue drives me crazy.......i need to access a floppy-drive ( not even format but dd ) for the sake of bios-upgrade. module floppy is loaded and /dev/fd0 as well as /dev/fd/0–3 exists but it tells me "not a valid blockdevice". is any greyhaired or hairless grandpa around to tell me what i miss for this ancient device ? |
| [12:32:19] | Twiggy2cents: | yeah, I wouldnt try to replace the directories with the old, just merge your important stuff back to where it used to be. |
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| [12:45:30] | lautriv: | ouch, that wasn't even the right channel, sorry. |
| [12:46:25] | rileyp: | Twiggy2cents: thanks will do |
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| [12:49:58] | Twiggy2cents: | rileyp, make sure that you set the correct perms when you merge the files |
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| [12:52:28] | rileyp: | Will do I'm not in a hurry havent made the stick yet.... 0.24 fixes working well at present so no hurry |
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| [13:25:04] | seither: | Hi, good morning everyone. does anyone have a preffered card to buy on amazon or newegg or ebay that would be good for mythtv and dvr? |
| [13:26:45] | k-man: | seither, card for what? receiving TV? |
| [13:27:26] | seither: | I would like to record directv |
| [13:27:51] | seither: | and change channels |
| [13:33:18] | k-man: | seither, i think its dependant on which country you are in and what sort of TV you want to receive... where are you located? |
| [13:33:24] | k-man: | and do you just want free to air TV? |
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| [13:41:19] | paulgardiner: | Hi. Is Gavin here? |
| [13:41:49] | paulgardiner: | Ah no. Looks like he's away but connected |
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| [14:14:17] | wagnerrp: | seither: directv means analog capture from their box |
| [14:14:20] | wagnerrp: | SD or HD? |
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| [14:59:43] | dekarl-too: | lautriv: are you looking for the DVB board the uses one PCI slot and has 6 frontends or the main board with a mips cpu? |
| [15:01:21] | dekarl-too: | I haven't found the latter yet ;) |
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| [15:01:26] | lautriv: | dekarl-too, i have a general interrest in that chips, preferably with as much as possible cores. |
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| [15:04:08] | lautriv: | another question.......there is this mythdroid for smartphones working with mdd, does something similar exist for linux (pda) or if not a good man about the netwwork-control-feature ? |
| [15:04:57] | wagnerrp: | http://mythtv.org/wiki/Frontend_Control_Socket |
| [15:16:14] | lautriv: | wagnerrp, nice but "there is currently no text on this page" |
| [15:16:52] | wagnerrp: | http://mythtv.org/wiki/Frontend_control_socket |
| [15:26:06] | sphery: | wagnerrp: so, did you hear mention of Intel's upcoming Centerton chips? |
| [15:26:40] | sphery: | 2H2012 will see the introduction of Atom-based Xeon chips |
| [15:26:49] | sid3windr: | and then the world ends |
| [15:26:51] | sid3windr: | pity! |
| [15:29:04] | sphery: | hehe, that might be why |
| [15:29:26] | sphery: | because then we'll have users asking, "Has anyone gotten MythTV working on a VM on a Centerton?" |
| [15:30:17] | wagnerrp: | why oh why... |
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| [15:32:39] | seither: | hi wagnerp I stepped away from my pc for a while. I'd like to record directv in hd. and switch channels via ir. |
| [15:33:15] | wagnerrp: | then your only option is an HDPVR |
| [15:33:17] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HD-PVR is the only option for HDTV from DirecTV |
| [15:33:45] | sphery: | and you'll also need DirecTV STB's to feed each HD-PVR |
| [15:34:16] | seither: | does it work ok wrt switching channels? |
| [15:34:53] | sphery: | I did LIRC-based channel changing for years and was quite pleased with the reliability |
| [15:35:33] | seither: | not familliar with lirc (looking it up now) |
| [15:35:40] | sphery: | your PC sends an IR signal to the STB |
| [15:35:49] | sphery: | using an IR transmitter |
| [15:36:23] | sphery: | I know HD-PVR has one, but I think most people tend to use a different one (and I know some people had(have?) some issues when they use the HD-PVR's built-in transmitter) |
| [15:36:29] | seither: | got it thanks |
| [15:37:02] | sphery: | Some DirecTV boxes allow control via network or via serial (or USB?) |
| [15:37:36] | sphery: | btw, LIRC = Linux Infrared Remote Control at http://lirc.org/ |
| [15:39:12] | seither: | thanks a lot I'll read up on all you mentioned. |
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| [15:47:13] | lautriv: | i can agree that lirc works fine, also with some homebrew receivers. |
| [15:47:25] | peitolm: | is there a way to debug the keypresses mythtv is recieving? every now and again, it sems to treat 'right arrow' as 'skip forward 5 mins' rarther than the default 30s |
| [15:49:20] | lautriv: | peitolm, watch your fingers if you use arrow-keys ;) |
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| [15:50:18] | peitolm: | i'm pretty sure i'm not hitting the wrong button, especially is the skip forward doesn't seem to always be 5mins, and it happens on the skip back as well |
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| [15:53:01] | peitolm: | c |
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| [15:55:16] | seither: | Hi again, hd-pvr is kinda pricey... To start I may go with sd for recording directv. What would be a good alternative? Dou you prefer pci or usb? |
| [15:59:47] | wagnerrp: | find an old PVR-150 for sale used |
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| [16:04:40] | seither: | is a WinTV PVR-150 MCE or a WinTV PVR-150 LP ok or is it best to have a certain model? |
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| [16:06:15] | sphery: | those should be fine... ttbomk, any Hauppauge WinTV PVR-150 should work with GNU/Linux |
| [16:06:34] | sphery: | (no "unless you get this model number" issues with it) |
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| [16:28:05] | seither: | is their any preffered hardware with using LIRC to switch channels on a stb? |
| [16:28:32] | jams: | seither- not really..whatever you can get to work |
| [16:29:09] | jams: | i use the iguanair serial transceiver |
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| [16:44:46] | sulx1: | . |
| [16:45:13] | sulx1: | Hi does anyone know wherefrom mythmetadatalookup gets default locale? |
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| [16:46:37] | stuartm: | I don't know for certain, but I'd assume from the mythtv settings, using whatever country you selected as your locale when first configuring mythtv |
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| [16:47:28] | sulx1: | hmm yea... I have debian backend and mythbuntu frontend and backend has EN and frontend FI. Tought it had something to do with frontend locale setting but no.. |
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| [16:50:42] | stuartm: | mythtv locale is a global setting, not per-host, so the value you set on the frontend or backend will be used throughout |
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| [16:51:03] | stuartm: | SELECT * FROM settings WHERE value LIKE 'Country'; |
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| [16:53:28] | Sulx: | aa it is set to FI...BUT hostname is wrong |
| [16:54:29] | Sulx: | because I changed backend hw A while a go and just dumped db |
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| [17:55:33] | jarle: | having to fix my logrotate scripts after upgrading to mythtv 0.25: What will "killall -HUP mythbackend" make the backend do? It will not make it abort any ongoing recordings I hope? |
| [17:58:07] | lautriv: | jarle, SIGHUP is kinda reload, all recordings running in this moment will interrupt (split) in this few seconds, no schedule is affected. |
| [18:00:07] | jarle: | lautriv: why would I want to interrupt recordings, just to have my log rotated? Do I really have to do this? |
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| [18:01:05] | sphery: | we don't interrupt recordings with a HUP |
| [18:01:10] | sphery: | we just close and reopen log files |
| [18:01:46] | jarle: | sphery: That was what I was hoping... |
| [18:01:47] | sphery: | (because we don't support "rotating" of recording files ;) |
| [18:02:39] | sphery: | jarle: are you using scripts from http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Log_Rotat . . . ration_Files ? |
| [18:02:52] | sphery: | if so, feel free to add new ones for mythpreviewgen and/or mythtranscode or ... |
| [18:04:03] | sphery: | or even a "rotate log files from all mythtv apps" type thing |
| [18:04:27] | sphery: | (just using a more generic wildcard--like /var/log/mythtv/*.log ) |
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| [18:06:54] | jarle: | sphery: yes, I'm thinking about making a generic rule, I don't see a reason to have different settings for the log files, and my log dir is getting prettt crowed after moving over to --logpath without taking the time to update my logrotate scripts :) |
| [18:07:07] | sphery: | hehe, yeah |
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| [18:07:22] | michi_: | hi |
| [18:07:30] | sphery: | I meant to do a generic one, but a) I don't actually use logrotate (I'm a rottlog guy, myself) and b) haven't made time to fake it, yet |
| [18:07:31] | michi_: | how can I slow down the analogue scan? |
| [18:07:51] | sphery: | michi_: tuning and signal timeouts in mythtv-setup under Capture Card |
| [18:07:52] | sphery: | ? |
| [18:08:07] | michi_: | i'm using 2:0.25.0+fixes.20120511 + ubuntu 12.04 – and mythtv is way too fast for the tuner |
| [18:08:10] | michi_: | sphery: thanks |
| [18:08:16] | sphery: | (I'm assuming that's what you're trying to do--give it more time to try to find the channel...) |
| [18:08:32] | sphery: | though I have no idea how well/if analog scanning is working |
| [18:08:45] | michi_: | hmm, don't have this setting |
| [18:09:07] | sphery: | (unfortunately, though, in Germany, you either need analog scanning or you'll have to manually create channels with the Channel Editor in mythtv-setup) |
| [18:09:20] | sphery: | It may not be an option for analog tuners |
| [18:09:36] | michi_: | only (rough translations) video device /dev/video0, info (sundtek metdiaTV, vbi-device, audio-device |
| [18:09:57] | sphery: | isn't there a button for additional stuff? |
| [18:11:01] | michi_: | I've only cancel, back and ready |
| [18:11:24] | sphery: | there's definitely a timeout for MPEG configuration cards |
| [18:11:31] | sphery: | er, MPEG capture cards |
| [18:11:40] | sphery: | addChild(new ChannelTimeout(parent, 12000, 2000)); |
| [18:12:09] | michi_: | jep, e.g. on dvb dtv tv-card |
| [18:12:29] | sphery: | MPEG capture is ivtv style analog capture (ivtv|saa7164) |
| [18:12:44] | sphery: | i.e. not V4L frame grabber garbage |
| [18:13:08] | sphery: | those don't have a timeout |
| [18:13:51] | sphery: | I'm guessing sundtek mediaTV is a frame grabber? |
| [18:13:58] | michi_: | yes, the mpeg2 card has a timeout, but not for scanning (yust tried) |
| [18:15:43] | michi_: | I think so (I'm still reading) |
| [18:16:14] | sphery: | The tuning timeout for MPEG2 card is: Tuning timeout (ms): Maximum time (in milliseconds) MythTV waits for a channel lock when scanning for channels during setup, or for issuing a warning in Live TV mode. |
| [18:16:47] | sphery: | but if you have a frame grabber--not an ivtv card--you can't use MPEG card type |
| [18:17:11] | michi_: | how can I get this out? |
| [18:17:22] | sphery: | so you're completely dependent on the V4L card "doing the right thing"--and if it doesn't, you'd have to manually create channels in Channel Editor in mythtv-setup |
| [18:19:03] | michi_: | on mpeg-2 ncode card i'v only videodevice, vbi-device, info and timeout (ms) – 3000 |
| [18:20:55] | devinheitmueller: | michi_: FYI: sundtek is a closed source driver and the reason you paid as much as you did was because of their claims to support Linux apps such as MythTV. If you have issues with their cards not working properly, you should really be talking to *their* support, not MythTV's. |
| [18:23:33] | jarle: | sphery: thinking a bit about the generic logrotate, it wouldn't be very elegant to run "killall -HUP mythbackend" each time a file matches *.log, even if it is NOT a backend log file... would it? |
| [18:23:56] | sphery: | jarle: doesn't postrotate happen after all rotation? |
| [18:24:10] | jarle: | sphery: lemme check... |
| [18:24:30] | michi_: | sphery: ah, the eplaining text about the timeout fits to your text – but doesn't change the speed |
| [18:24:39] | michi_: | I'll try the manual way |
| [18:25:01] | jarle: | sphery: "are executed after the log file is rotated" |
| [18:25:04] | sphery: | jarle: guess that's lastaction/endscript |
| [18:25:09] | sphery: | so use that, instead |
| [18:25:17] | sphery: | per http://linux.die.net/man/8/logrotate |
| [18:25:31] | jarle: | sphery: yes, thnx... |
| [18:25:40] | sphery: | I knew there was one, but couldn't remember which |
| [18:25:44] | sphery: | :) |
| [18:26:11] | sphery: | jarle: and, btw, thanks for doing this :) |
| [18:26:29] | michi_: | sphery: btw, scantv from xawtv works – if adding one channel manually works I'll try to make a convert-tool so that its scan-results can be imported |
| [18:26:31] | sphery: | will save me some time--and, more importantly, the worrying whether I got it right :) |
| [18:26:33] | wagnerrp: | devinheitmueller: is sundtek the one that does LD_PRELOAD for access, rather than a proper kernel module? |
| [18:26:34] | jarle: | sphery: and you say you don't even use logrotate :) |
| [18:26:43] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: yup. |
| [18:26:58] | sphery: | michi_: if scantv from xawtv works, it's quite possible you're just using the wrong frequency table to scan |
| [18:26:58] | wagnerrp: | blech |
| [18:27:35] | sphery: | wagnerrp: so, we need to do the LocalHostName -> (some good name for "profile" or whatever) stuff |
| [18:28:01] | sphery: | the config.xml changes are really confusing users (and may have a bug that prevents LocalHostName from working ...) |
| [18:28:32] | sphery: | even if we don't change column names in the schema, it would be good to change all user-facing mention of hostname |
| [18:29:00] | michi_: | sphery: i'm using full scan + europa-west – which i use in scantv, too |
| [18:29:07] | sphery: | and make LocalHostName (whatever we decide to call it) a mandatory part of config.xml , and maybe just use whatever hostname returns the first time when writing config.xml |
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| [18:29:16] | sphery: | (assuming it's not specified) |
| [18:29:34] | wagnerrp: | i think danielk is right, changing the external name without changing the internal behavior is just going to make things more confusing |
| [18:29:36] | sphery: | michi_: ah, then sounds like analog scanning may in fact be broken |
| [18:30:20] | sphery: | there's not a lot of testing of that, since analog tuning is actually becoming very unusual (most analog anymore being from STB capture or whatever) |
| [18:30:30] | sphery: | wagnerrp: what internal behavior |
| [18:30:54] | sphery: | I'm just saying we don't need change column name "hostname"/"host" |
| [18:31:02] | wagnerrp: | some things like video storage do make sense against a hostname, regardless of profile |
| [18:31:14] | wagnerrp: | while settings make sense against a profile, regardless of hostname |
| [18:31:51] | michi_: | sphery: i'm stuck on analog since the friendly kabel deutschland enrypts even free tv on dvb-c |
| [18:31:54] | sphery: | separating those out wouldn't be a bad thing |
| [18:31:56] | wagnerrp: | although ideally, the replacement scanner would take care of moved files internally without the user caring about the hostname |
| [18:31:57] | sphery: | just not as quick |
| [18:32:28] | sphery: | but really, even storage locations aren't necessarily a hostname thing |
| [18:32:36] | sphery: | as hostnames change and storage moves |
| [18:32:36] | lautriv: | ugh, someone highlighted me while i was afk, anything important ? |
| [18:32:40] | wagnerrp: | if we do switch things to a forced profile in config.xml, we need a protocol check to ensure only one instance of certain applications is active at a time |
| [18:33:12] | wagnerrp: | otherwise, were going to get people copying from one machine to the next and screwing things up |
| [18:33:27] | sphery: | yeah, that would be a good thing |
| [18:33:46] | sphery: | (though we don't currently care if users use the same hostname on multiple instances, now, we should) |
| [18:33:58] | wagnerrp: | perhaps a table in the DB... "you last connected this profile from <here>, are you sure youre doing the right thing" |
| [18:34:11] | wagnerrp: | multiple instances on a hostname isnt a problem |
| [18:34:19] | wagnerrp: | but multiple instances on LocalHostName is |
| [18:34:31] | wagnerrp: | since theyre going to be fighting for the same ports, tuners, and other resources |
| [18:34:31] | sphery: | no, I'm saying the same thing |
| [18:34:47] | sphery: | we currently allow users to use the exact same hostname = configuration for multiple instances of mythfrontend |
| [18:34:50] | sphery: | and some do |
| [18:35:10] | wagnerrp: | right, and it causes problems for things like the control socket |
| [18:35:25] | sphery: | which is why we had to "fix" the "bug" that prevented them from running multiple instances of mythfrontend on the same system if they don't specify a new port number |
| [18:35:41] | sphery: | (and we "fixed" it by just not starting the servers on the 2nd instance) |
| [18:35:47] | wagnerrp: | well it wouldnt prevent them, it would segfault |
| [18:35:56] | wagnerrp: | and segfaults are always bad regardless the cause |
| [18:36:18] | sphery: | I'm just saying that we should be checking so that we don't have the problem we do have now (but that is much less common with current config because most don't specify LocalHostName/copy it to other systems) |
| [18:36:40] | sphery: | segfaults are bad |
| [18:36:53] | sphery: | but better than ignoring the misconfiguration would be to shut down and tell them they've borked the config |
| [18:37:02] | sphery: | i.e. we fixed it wrong |
| [18:37:32] | sphery: | but still, I'm agreeing... we do need that capability--and really should have it whether we make specifying a profile name mandatory or not |
| [18:37:44] | wagnerrp: | well we fixed the segfault, but we didnt fix the misconfiguration that would lead to the fault |
| [18:38:26] | sphery: | we fixed the segfault by sweeping a glaring misconfiguration under the rug and causing the 2nd instance to operate incorrectly/not run fully |
| [18:39:00] | wagnerrp: | second instance runs fine on freebsd |
| [18:39:08] | wagnerrp: | it steals the socket out from under the first instance |
| [18:39:15] | wagnerrp: | ... still havent figured that one out ... |
| [18:39:17] | sphery: | hehe |
| [18:44:15] | jarle: | sphery: I'm really starting to wonder why it was decided to include datestamp and PID in the log filename, not sure how to let logrotate treat the different files as ONE logfile?? |
| [18:46:01] | wagnerrp: | jarle: specifically so they were not one logfile |
| [18:46:22] | wagnerrp: | so you didnt have multiple instances of the preview generator or commercial flagger trying to flood a single file and confusing things |
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| [18:47:24] | sphery: | not to mention users uploading log files with 3yr old log messages at the top and confusing us |
| [18:49:34] | sphery: | jarle: what exactly do you mean by "treat the different files as ONE logfile"? |
| [18:49:52] | wagnerrp: | he means, "how do i configure it to use wildcards" |
| [18:49:52] | sphery: | jarle: note that it's the find in the postrotate (for you lastaction) that does the deleting of old ones |
| [18:51:38] | sphery: | I'd think a "generic" log rotate would be basically something like: http://pastebin.com/faVkxumM |
| [18:51:55] | jarle: | sphery: yeah, I know, but the internal workings of logrotate (as I understand it, is to rotate files with *.1 *.2 etc, and having a lot of different files kind of breaks this functionality, but then again, this new layout will make sure that only one instance of the program is logged in one file... |
| [18:52:44] | jarle: | sphery: That's what mine looks like :) |
| [18:53:40] | sphery: | hehe |
| [18:54:27] | jarle: | sphery: when is mythpreviewgen run? When the frontend or other programs ask for a preview? |
| [18:54:49] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [18:54:49] | sphery: | yes, plus once at the end of a recording (or end of commercial flagging) |
| [18:55:11] | michi_: | sphery: after fixing a few problems (startchannel etc.), the backend seems to crash... |
| [18:55:28] | jarle: | was just wondering why it seemed to be running at random intervals :) |
| [18:56:35] | sphery: | random is just a pattern we haven't yet figured out :) |
| [18:56:57] | sphery: | michi_: no idea what might cause backend crash... look at your backend logs |
| [18:57:45] | michi_: | the last line is that it couldn't open /dev/vbi0 (which does exist) |
| [18:57:52] | michi_: | (and has the rights 777) |
| [18:59:08] | jarle: | sphery: anyway, it seems like you have just created the generic logrotate script in paralell with me, so you might just as well add it to the wiki (I haven't setup a user there yet...) |
| [18:59:10] | wagnerrp: | michi_: the problem is that with sundtek devices, they dont exist |
| [18:59:31] | wagnerrp: | they are faked at runtime by the preloaded driverlibrary |
| [19:00:30] | michi_: | ah, and this faking doesn't work well? |
| [19:01:38] | wagnerrp: | well it means you have to preload that same library on every application you may want to try to do diagnostics with |
| [19:01:49] | wagnerrp: | since those nodes dont actually exist on the filesystem |
| [19:02:43] | wagnerrp: | basically, it loads itself in before libc and replaces the file access routines normally provided by libc |
| [19:02:58] | michi_: | yes |
| [19:03:02] | sphery: | jarle: cool, I'll post it later today |
| [19:03:11] | sphery: | thanks for testing |
| [19:03:36] | wagnerrp: | allowing it to intercept accesses to where the device nodes would typically exist, and add in those devices through the userland, rather than the kernel |
| [19:03:58] | michi_: | (it adds itself into /etc/ld.so.preload) |
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| [19:25:59] | wagnerrp: | sphery: still around? |
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| [19:39:46] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah |
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| [19:58:01] | sphery: | but not now... will be back later |
| [20:00:21] | wagnerrp: | heh |
| [20:00:24] | wagnerrp: | just as i get back |
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| [20:12:04] | justinh: | gah. been upgraded a few weeks now & suddenly mythbackend is all locky uppy :-\ |
| [20:12:13] | justinh: | in the logs, device EOF blah blah |
| [20:13:06] | justinh: | btw is there any way to get the logs back to the old single file way? I knew where I was at with that |
| [20:15:24] | justinh: | err hang on... looks like something's been restarting mythbackend on a whim |
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| [20:16:12] | justinh: | 2012-05–11 19:54 /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.20120416224108.11902.log then /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.20120511193957.15752.log at 19:56 |
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| [20:21:57] | justinh: | bloody init script. respawn was on |
| [20:22:27] | justinh: | mythbackend hadn't actually died, but upstart kicked off some new processes for me |
| [20:23:10] | eddytv: | wagnerrp: I asked yesterday about a "centrally maintained" .mythtv/themecache instead of having it locally on every frontend. I took your advice and just set up /home as a NFS share and configured LTSP to mount it. Thanks. |
| [20:23:45] | lautriv: | justinh, you may use a sane distro ;) |
| [20:24:06] | justinh: | lautriv: like whut? Centos? LOL |
| [20:24:35] | lautriv: | justinh, debian ftw. but wrong place to discuss it here. |
| [20:25:25] | justinh: | meh. all distros have their downsides one way or another |
| [20:25:52] | lautriv: | justinh, but ubu has only downsides..........however, it's yours. |
| [20:26:08] | justinh: | no. ALL distros have downsides |
| [20:26:22] | justinh: | otherwise there'd likely only be one or two |
| [20:26:39] | justinh: | anyhoo... |
| [20:28:14] | justinh: | fwiw no OS is worth getting worked up into a froth about. too much time is wasted arguing about pointless minutae. Bottom line is, I don't really even like computers |
| [20:29:09] | justinh: | once I can buy a little set top box type unit which can do even half what mythtv does, even half as well... I'll use that |
| [20:38:20] | wagnerrp: | no.... theyre tied up |
| [20:38:31] | wagnerrp: | 1604 reports even between i686 and x86_64 |
| [20:38:48] | wagnerrp: | this is a sad day for technological advancement... |
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| [20:54:34] | justinh: | so is mythbackend doing the log file funkiness or is it upstart? |
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| [21:07:31] | stuartm: | justinh: the one log per instance stuff? That's myth, but it's configurable (sorta), with a rsylog config for mythtv it can be made to log the way it used to (I'd give you mine, but I'm sure there's a better one available, I still get some non mythtv processes logged in my mythtv log directory) |
| [21:09:44] | stuartm: | the idea behind the new log stuff was that it makes it easier to debug stuff than having everything log to one file, suits some devs but I can certainly sympathise with those who don't like the logplosion |
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| [21:11:21] | sphery: | justinh: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Rsyslog_Configuration ... generally, most people will want the "Simple rsyslog configuration" |
| [21:13:13] | wagnerrp: | sphery: looking to pick your brain about some details of the schema change for the scanner rewrite |
| [21:13:43] | sphery: | I haven't yet gotten a chance to go over all the requested changes |
| [21:14:13] | sphery: | I know there are several things that will change, but I am hoping to put the tables in place soon |
| [21:14:19] | wagnerrp: | im looking for more basic stuff, low level interaction with the changes |
| [21:14:28] | stuartm: | hmm, the version I'm using is actually simpler than that, it doesn't specify each app by name, but then that maybe why I get a couple of other apps logging to /var/log/mythtv/ |
| [21:14:46] | wagnerrp: | i.e. are you going to have some kind of basic File class that just interfaces with the file table |
| [21:15:45] | sphery: | stuartm: yeah, you have the first one, the templated config, which didn't work for *buntu because of the way they did permissions and ownership with rsyslog |
| [21:15:48] | wagnerrp: | as mentioned, im wanting to set it up so the scanner just picks up any and every file in the scanned folders, inserts them in the database, and fires off events to the relevant code to handle it further |
| [21:15:55] | wagnerrp: | bleh... afk |
| [21:15:58] | sphery: | it required some extra work |
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| [21:16:26] | sphery: | stuartm: if you change to the simple one, "This configuration uses a simple approach to logging which separates log lines into different files based on application name. This approach has the benefit that it allows logging to any desired syslog facility and will prevent non-MythTV application logging from getting into MythTV log files (even if another service or application uses the same syslog facility)." |
| [21:17:03] | sphery: | (i.e. the only reason you get non-mythtv stuff in mythtv places is because you have other stuff using the same facility as mythtv and the templated config assumes only mythtv uses that facility |
| [21:17:30] | stuartm: | sphery: thanks, as you guessed I was too lazy to read the paragraph preceding the config ;) |
| [21:17:35] | sphery: | hehe |
| [21:17:50] | sphery: | wasn't saying you were too lazy--just emphasizing that part |
| [21:18:35] | stuartm: | I know you weren't saying it, but I was lazy ;) |
| [21:18:41] | sphery: | hehe |
| [21:18:52] | wagnerrp: | sphery: basically, will i be doing the database inserts myself, or will i have a class of some sort set up to do them for me |
| [21:18:56] | sphery: | well, let's just say that there's too much info out there to read it all :) |
| [21:19:09] | wagnerrp: | also, id like to store modification time against them as well |
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| [21:19:29] | sphery: | wagnerrp: not sure at this point |
| [21:19:30] | wagnerrp: | and would probably want to do an MD5 or SHA1 for files <64KB |
| [21:19:44] | wagnerrp: | since the existing hash function is not designed for anything that small |
| [21:19:45] | sphery: | ideally, eventually, we'll have data access classes handle all the inserts/deletes/updates |
| [21:20:00] | sphery: | but not sure what we'll have initially |
| [21:21:29] | sphery: | as far as putting all the junk you find in all the dirs in there, would it make sense to have a separate table for found/unidentified items? |
| [21:23:13] | sphery: | I have a feeling not everyone keeps their file system as clean as I like mine, but I'd like everyone's media tables to be clean (and contain only media--not text files and stuff we don't handle, and without using hacks like file extension exclusions or even checking contents to see if we know what it is and such) |
| [21:25:09] | sphery: | if you like that idea, we could easily get that part going soon--allowing you to actually start implementing that, then we'd just need to have the "adapter" code move data to the proper table(s) once identified/handled |
| [21:25:25] | sphery: | (and we could have an adapter for current schema and replace it with one for new schema later) |
| [21:31:10] | stuartm: | sphery: can't we just ignore anything which doesn't match a list of supported extensions? Or is that just the other side of the same coin as file extension exclusions? |
| [21:32:09] | sphery: | yeah, I'm basically saying I like wagnerrp's idea of putting everything in the MythTV SG dirs into the DB, but only want stuff we handle properly in the actual media tables |
| [21:32:53] | sphery: | "stuff we handle properly" could then be defined however our code likes without forcing antiquated approaches like requiring specific extensions |
| [21:33:42] | stuartm: | ah, ok, didn't read back far enough to see wagnerrp's suggestion |
| [21:33:57] | sphery: | (though we could always start with use of extensions, but I picture that as being something handle by each area of code--like video library or music library or ...) |
| [21:35:22] | sphery: | I just don't want a "bouncer" at the door that keeps stuff out because Apple decides to use a new extension for their iphone pics that are otherwise identical to HDR JPEGs or something... |
| [21:35:57] | sphery: | basically no "has to know what everything supports" file scanner choosing what to include/not include |
| [21:36:20] | stuartm: | I was envisioning something where each 'handler' registers a list of extensions with the scanner at startup, tbh there are issues with wagnerrp's suggestion – namely if every plugin or whatever gets an event for every file, and two plugins both handle the same extension, how would that conflict be resolved? If they are registering extension up front you can also assign each handler a priority and only have one notified, but not with a |
| [21:36:22] | stuartm: | blind scanner approach |
| [21:37:27] | sphery: | yeah, but users will tell us that their iphone videos belong in gallery but their same-format/same-extension movie vides belong in video library |
| [21:37:49] | sphery: | so maybe we need to just let ever plugin/section that knows how to handle some media use it |
| [21:38:50] | sphery: | anyway, I kind of like keeping track of everything in every SG dir... Just would prefer the unidentified/unhandled stuff starts in a separate table |
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| [21:39:26] | sphery: | (would also make it easier to clean up--because we wouldn't necessarily have to worry about orphaning some unhandled stuff, so we could delete it if it seems to disappear) |
| [21:39:36] | stuartm: | sphery: so mythgallery and mythvideo simultaneously try to perform actions on the same file at once? Be that playing it or whatever? That's the problem with handle with the mediamonitor, two different plugins both trying to autoplay the same media at the same time |
| [21:39:40] | sphery: | and then just re-add it if it reappears |
| [21:40:14] | sphery: | ah, yeah, I was thinking more of "handling" as meaning "put it in their respective DB tables" versus actually trying to play it |
| [21:40:23] | sphery: | I'll leave media monitor type stuff to others |
| [21:40:32] | stuartm: | sphery: there will be no more 'photo' or 'video' storage groups, just one single everything together group? |
| [21:41:42] | sphery: | no, separate SGs would make sense for allowing users to say, "this goes here" |
| [21:42:05] | sphery: | but then again, IMHO, a video that's in Gallery should also be playable when in Video Library |
| [21:42:11] | stuartm: | ok, just checking :) |
| [21:42:30] | sphery: | granted, probably requiring user to specifically switch views somehow |
| [21:42:57] | sphery: | but I like the idea of "Media Library" becoming more of a destination than a menu of functionally-separated plugins |
| [21:43:11] | stuartm: | sphery: yeah, I wouldn't want that personally, the videos from my camera belong in sequence with the photos taken at the same time and not say in mythvideo alongside DVD boxsets |
| [21:44:56] | sphery: | yeah, I agree, which is what I meant by switching views |
| [21:45:08] | stuartm: | that's more of a context problem, but that's why I like the photo/music/video/recording storage group stuff, because no application is really clever enough on it's own to do the right thing and second guess the categorisation that I've already done by keeping everything in distinct folders |
| [21:45:47] | sphery: | yeah, but when you have images in your video dirs (where those dirs aren't also in the gallery SG)... |
| [21:46:21] | sphery: | or music videos in your music dir (where, TTBOMK, MythMusic can't play videos at all?) |
| [21:47:12] | sphery: | it just seems we should have a location to put those identified, but unhandled files, then provide a UI that allows users to manage them (i.e. add to Video Library) |
| [21:47:17] | stuartm: | image in the video dirs, those that exist, are folder images (coverart etc) for display in the video UI – again, not something I personally want to see in amongst my holiday snapshots |
| [21:47:21] | sphery: | possibly allowing them to actually move the files? |
| [21:47:58] | sphery: | anyway, not sure what exactly wagnerrp is planning, but will be interesting to see |
| [21:48:18] | sphery: | the biggest problem I see with our current approach is that we require the user to exit MythTV and manage files |
| [21:48:38] | sphery: | I'd like them be able to use MythTV to manage any file in any SG |
| [21:49:11] | sphery: | (without forbidding them from using external tools to move or manage files) |
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| [22:00:59] | stuartm: | right, being able to organise files from within myth would be great – already possible to a limited degree with things like mythgallery (copy/delete) and mythmusic (copy/rename on import) |
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| [22:03:28] | stuartm: | it should still be the goal of mythtv to allow everything to be done through the remote requiring no other method of access/control, no desktop or http interface to create/manage or destroy media |
| [22:05:40] | stuartm: | sphery: fwiw we should also support the use of read-only media, maybe marking files which cannot be deleted as such in the file metadata so that we don't display a delete or move option that do nothing? |
| [22:07:14] | wagnerrp: | stuartm: would that actually be a problem if two different plugins tried to handle the same code? |
| [22:07:42] | justinh: | FWIW, on reflection if everything was in one file I'd have taken longer to work out mythbackend was being (erroneously, I think) respawned |
| [22:08:33] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: depends what they are trying to do, it has been a problem in the past with the mediamonitor where two different plugins try to launch jumppoints for the same file |
| [22:09:07] | wagnerrp: | ah, i see what youre getting at |
| [22:09:15] | justinh: | at least the backend timestamps aren't frickin julian, like the system I support at work :-z |
| [22:09:20] | wagnerrp: | actually hadnt considered hot to handle removable media at this opint |
| [22:09:24] | stuartm: | if they are just inserting an entry into a database then no, I can't see a problem there, but if they are setup to automatically move/rename a file on import (mythmusic) then yes I can see things going horribly wrong |
| [22:10:26] | wagnerrp: | part of the problem is that this scanner is only going to exist in the backend |
| [22:10:32] | wagnerrp: | while plugins currently only exist in the frontend |
| [22:10:45] | wagnerrp: | so "hooking in" is going to be a bit tough |
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| [22:11:20] | wagnerrp: | i intended to start it out with something simple |
| [22:11:29] | wagnerrp: | simple file scanner thread in the backend |
| [22:11:43] | wagnerrp: | other code and other clients would send it groups of folders to scan |
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| [22:12:13] | wagnerrp: | it would pull a list of files, compare it to an existing list of files in the database, and send an event with the changes when it was finished |
| [22:12:38] | stuartm: | well I've talked about backend plugins, I don't think it's asking too much for plugin authors to create separate backend and frontend components where required (can be the same .so, just calling a different API) |
| [22:13:19] | wagnerrp: | at the moment, recordings and videos have their own independent storage groups |
| [22:13:28] | stuartm: | wouldn't require a true frontend only plugin, say one for playing sudoku from only implementing the frontend API calls and being truly frontend-only |
| [22:13:33] | wagnerrp: | is that not something we want to continue with for music and photos? |
| [22:14:13] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: that's what I'd always imagined would happen, each media type having it's own storage group |
| [22:14:24] | wagnerrp: | i.e. this storage group belongs to this plugin |
| [22:14:38] | wagnerrp: | so any content contained within, this plugin and only this plugin will handle its events |
| [22:15:32] | stuartm: | right, in that case the plugin would register 'photos' as it's storage group and we'd only send events relating to files in that group back to that plugin |
| [22:15:37] | wagnerrp: | but that still wouldnt handle the case of the mediamonitor |
| [22:17:30] | wagnerrp: | sphery: i figured any unfiltered/unknown files would simply be anything not found in one of the cross reference tables |
| [22:17:43] | wagnerrp: | i dont see why there would be a need for two separate file tables |
| [22:18:07] | stuartm: | but if a competing photo browsing plugin came along which also wanted to use the existing 'photos' storage group, one would possibly need to take priority over the other – again it really depends on what we allow plugins and components to do in response to such events |
| [22:20:18] | natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) | |
| [22:20:53] | stuartm: | I'll stop throwing spanners in the works and call it a night |
| [22:21:13] | andreax1 (andreax1!~andreaz@p54BF1F59.dip.t-dialin.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | |
| [22:22:28] | wagnerrp: | how do 338 people have an unknown version of qt? |
| [22:22:50] | wagnerrp: | oh, the same number are running an unknown branch |
| [22:23:15] | wagnerrp: | likely people using tarballs from github |
| [22:44:27] | dashs (dashs!~dave@dashs.denver.co.us) has joined #mythtv-users | |
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| [22:45:10] | dashs: | Does the mythconverg database need to be on the master backend? |
| [22:48:27] | wagnerrp: | the database needs to be on the database server |
| [22:50:10] | dashs: | Of course, but can the master backend and database server be different machines? |
| [22:51:08] | wagnerrp: | why wouldnt they? |
| [22:52:48] | dashs: | So DBHostname can point to any MySQL server servicing mythconverg. |
| [22:52:55] | stuartm: | yes |
| [22:54:03] | dashs: | OK |
| [22:54:24] | stuartm: | more machines means higher electricity bills, more space consumed (in answer to wagnerrp) |
| [22:54:55] | dashs: | I'm an egregious watt sink. |
| [22:55:04] | wagnerrp: | stuartm: i mean... what would prevent you from using separate machines for master backend and database server |
| [22:55:30] | wagnerrp: | if you can define a remote database server for remote frontends and backends, it only seems logical you would be able to do so for the master backend |
| [22:55:44] | stuartm: | dashs: the mysql server needs to be available all the time that the backend is running, so best not on a machine that gets shut down for any period, the backend and frontend for that matter don't handle a missing database well at all |
| [22:56:12] | wagnerrp: | there is a mechanism to attempt to wake the database server |
| [22:56:22] | wagnerrp: | but the frontend basically wont do anything while its waiting |
| [22:57:04] | dashs: | I've noticed that, but I have a db problem on the master backend. |
| [22:57:21] | stuartm: | right, I just wouldn't want to depend on trying to wake up that server and while it's waiting missing minutes from recordings etc |
| [22:58:15] | dashs: | Right now the mysql on the master backend has a problem that I can't avoid. |
| [22:59:32] | stuartm: | fwiw we always recommend that recordings and the database reside on physically different hard drives, many drives are just too slow for the high number of reads and writes made to the database made concurrently with the high volume of data being written during a recording (or multiple recordings) |
| [22:59:40] | mzb_ is now known as mzb | |
| [23:00:12] | dashs: | stuartm: I've always had that configuration. |
| [23:01:46] | dashs: | Well, it will be interesting to try this. — thanks. |
| [23:17:13] | wagnerrp: | and i686 users have now exceeded x86_64 ones |
| [23:17:18] | ** wagnerrp weeps ** | |
| [23:18:21] | wagnerrp: | tgm4883: why do your people keep installing 32-bit versions? |
| [23:18:47] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, I have no idea |
| [23:18:52] | sphery: | why pay for the extra bits when 32 is enough for everyone? |
| [23:18:57] | tgm4883: | I've been watching that for awhile now |
| [23:20:17] | wagnerrp: | slightly more than half the machines are running at least 2GB of memory |
| [23:20:22] | tgm4883: | Probably because people go onto the forums and ask what they should install and are almost always told "you don't need 64-bit because of PAE" |
| [23:20:44] | wagnerrp: | and you just didnt find that much memory on 32-bit systems unless you were running a server |
| [23:20:55] | wagnerrp: | anyone who says that needs to be slapped |
| [23:21:04] | wagnerrp: | including mark lord |
| [23:21:17] | tgm4883: | I know |
| [23:21:28] | wagnerrp: | its like NAT |
| [23:21:39] | wagnerrp: | we only use NAT because we have to, not because we want to |
| [23:22:00] | wagnerrp: | "but it works great" |
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| [23:22:07] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc | |
| [23:22:08] | wagnerrp: | no, it works crappily, we just have no alternative |
| [23:23:00] | wagnerrp: | people on ubuntu forums are actually saying not to bother with 64-bit and to use PAE instead? |
| [23:23:34] | wagnerrp: | indeed a good third of the systems are running PAE kernels |
| [23:26:31] | wagnerrp: | theres a guy with the name CaptainSEO, and hes not spamming? |
| [23:30:40] | wagnerrp: | hah |
| [23:31:02] | wagnerrp: | "if you dont have recent first hand experience with 64-bit, please don't comment on its current status" |
| [23:31:34] | wagnerrp: | i havent tried running 64-bit in five years, but when i did, it was unstable, so you should stick to 32-bit |
| [23:32:57] | kormoc: | Obviously the future is in 8 bit |
| [23:38:36] | wagnerrp: | 8-bit? 1-bit computers look so much cooler... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons . . . rostburg.jpg |
| [23:39:52] | dashs (dashs!~dave@dashs.denver.co.us) has quit (Quit: Leaving) | |
| [23:41:40] | kormoc: | that's 2400 technology right there |
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| [23:50:11] | stuartm: | there are lots of anti-64bit cranks about, all the problems they've ever had were somehow the fault of 64bit and despite the fact that the rest of the world has been using 64bit distros for years without any issue they can't be persuaded that it's anything more than a dangerous fad |
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