| Tuesday, February 28th, 2012, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:13] | sphery: | skd5aner: and, yeah, it will definitely be useful to have that info in the future |
| [00:00:23] | skd5aner: | so, does smolt do that? |
| [00:00:35] | skd5aner: | periodically ping back the version statistics? |
| [00:00:48] | sphery: | I don't know how the smolt stuff works |
| [00:01:07] | skd5aner: | well – that might be something to find out before release... |
| [00:01:46] | skd5aner: | otherwise, you have to wait for another release to start collecting that data |
| [00:02:00] | skd5aner: | feature freeze be damned! :) |
| [00:02:14] | sphery: | pretty sure they have something about version info in there |
| [00:02:17] | skd5aner: | I'm sure it does collect version, just not sure how often it phones home to update |
| [00:03:00] | sphery: | but haven't paid any attention to how it works or when it gets it... I just trusted those who were setting that up to do what we need. |
| [00:03:02] | skd5aner: | (once? scheduled? periodically? event triggered? on upgrade? manually?) |
| [00:03:10] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: from this point onward, yes, assuming those users have it enabled |
| [00:03:27] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: what's the interval/trigger for updates? |
| [00:03:36] | wagnerrp: | 30 days i believe |
| [00:03:43] | skd5aner: | that's probably reasonable |
| [00:16:35] | Hydr0p0nX: | the tricky part will be arranging it so that you don't get flooded with updates all at the same time every month |
| [00:19:09] | wagnerrp: | actually, the check is done any time the frontend starts up |
| [00:19:16] | Hydr0p0nX: | oh |
| [00:19:41] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: wow – so, does it only send the deltas? |
| [00:21:12] | wagnerrp: | the check is done any time the frontend starts up, and determines if it has been a month or more since the last time it has been sent |
| [00:21:31] | wagnerrp: | if it has been over a month, it sends a new, complete profile, replacing the last |
| [00:22:06] | wagnerrp: | since it only happens automatically once per month, and is delayed according to however long it is until the user restarts the frontend |
| [00:22:17] | wagnerrp: | the events will be naturally scattered |
| [00:25:34] | wagnerrp: | in addition the profiler can be run manually through the services API, but there is no mechanism to make that happen automatically |
| [00:25:55] | wagnerrp: | sphery: do you know if there was something supposed to be put into the housekeeper for that, but never made it? |
| [00:27:12] | sphery: | something in housekeeper for profile updates? |
| [00:27:48] | wagnerrp: | yeah, so the backend will handle it on machines that have no operational frontend |
| [00:28:00] | sphery: | if so, not sure... I stayed out of the whole profile dev/discussions |
| [00:28:02] | wagnerrp: | or the backend will run it automatically even if the user does not often restart the frontend |
| [00:28:24] | wagnerrp: | jams: you know anything about that? ^^^ |
| [00:28:29] | sphery: | seems reasonable to do it there, though |
| [00:28:36] | wagnerrp: | sphery: just thought you might, since you seem to be up on most things housekeeper |
| [00:34:27] | k-man: | sphery, well – i'm working on building mythtv on OSX using brew – the default way that brew installs QT is without the qt3-support. its fast to install that way as it installs binaries. if i want qt3-support i have to build it myself wich is very slow on my computer |
| [00:34:43] | k-man: | just wondering if it now works withought qt3-support |
| [00:41:08] | wagnerrp: | sphery: with all these distros (ubuntu) using new (broken) init systems that bring mythbackend up before their network |
| [00:41:55] | wagnerrp: | do you think there would be worth in adding a looping delay into the address selection mechanism to stall on init until the BackendServerIP[6] it is looking for is accessible? |
| [00:42:55] | wagnerrp: | maybe only do so if system uptime < 60 seconds or something |
| [00:46:46] | k-man: | jya, does your osx package script build .24fixes? |
| [00:46:55] | jya: | k-man: it should |
| [00:47:06] | k-man: | have you tried it out of interest? |
| [00:47:35] | jya: | haven't tried … but provided it's about Qt, and the qt is common between the two, I can't foresee any logical explanation on why it wouldn't work |
| [00:48:49] | k-man: | i had to patch a file in fixes to be able to compile using my brew script |
| [00:48:59] | k-man: | https://github.com/jasonblewis/mythtv/commit/ . . . c41e701b4ae6 |
| [00:49:12] | k-man: | i just wondered if you had encountered that? |
| [00:50:33] | sphery: | k-man: ah, yeah, if you're using packages that are built without it, then it's worth a try |
| [00:50:44] | sphery: | we don't officially support it, but it may work |
| [00:50:55] | k-man: | sphery, i just tried and it failed :) |
| [00:51:17] | jya: | k-man: let's put it that way... |
| [00:51:31] | jya: | if 0.24 built fine on a 10.6 mac earlier against qt 4.7 |
| [00:51:40] | jya: | it will build on lion using 4.8 and the new script |
| [00:51:40] | sphery: | wagnerrp: we already have similar code in the WOL code (which needs massive overhaul/refactoring to bring together the many different wake/sleep approaches) |
| [00:52:08] | sphery: | wagnerrp: seems it would be a good idea to do something like that along with the overhaul :) |
| [00:52:37] | sphery: | (or, if you want it for 0.25, then do it for now without overhaul, but include that with the overhaul later) |
| [00:52:51] | ** wagnerrp feels he inadvertently volunteered for something ** | |
| [00:53:02] | sphery: | k-man: yeah, 0.24 requires qt3-support... unstable /might/ need it for some small bits |
| [00:53:05] | k-man: | jya, hmm... i'll have to try it out |
| [00:53:26] | wagnerrp: | as i understood it, mythmusic was the last thing that still needed qt3-support, prior to the rewrite |
| [00:54:50] | k-man: | ok thanks |
| [00:58:25] | sphery: | well, there's been no official statement on its necessity in unstable, which is why I'm saying "might" |
| [00:58:37] | sphery: | I think someone should test it and make it official one way or the other |
| [00:59:52] | sphery: | it doesn't seem like it's necessary (as we don't include qt3support in any .pro files, but I can't say for sure since I've never attempted to build on a Qt without qt3-support) |
| [01:02:14] | Hydr0p0nX: | hey i think i may have found the problem with my 2nd tuner |
| [01:04:34] | ertyu-m: | and it is? |
| [01:05:09] | Hydr0p0nX: | crw-rw----+ 1 root video 212, 2 Feb 26 10:55 frontend0 |
| [01:05:09] | Hydr0p0nX: | crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 0 Feb 26 10:56 /dev/video0 |
| [01:05:38] | Hydr0p0nX: | i can use video0 |
| [01:05:58] | Hydr0p0nX: | but i'm not sure what the difference is betwewen the video 212 and video 81 group |
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| [01:07:53] | Hydr0p0nX: | i do know they don't exist as individual groups, but 81 is the groupid for dbus |
| [01:13:22] | sphery: | Hydr0p0nX: 212 and 81 are device node numbers--i.e. tell the kernel what type of device those are |
| [01:13:46] | sphery: | 212 = dvb frontend, 81 = v4l (ivtv type?) tuner |
| [01:13:55] | Hydr0p0nX: | ah well, i'm grasping at straws and that's the only thing i see different =/ |
| [01:14:10] | sphery: | so which works and which doesn't? |
| [01:14:18] | Hydr0p0nX: | video0 works |
| [01:14:35] | sphery: | that's the analog hardware encoder |
| [01:15:06] | sphery: | which accepts S-Video, Composite, or NTSC (analog) TV signals (from cable or antenna) |
| [01:15:07] | Hydr0p0nX: | yep |
| [01:15:38] | sphery: | the /dev/dvb/frontend0 is ATSC tuner, which requires an ATSC (OTA from antenna) or QAM (from cable) signal |
| [01:15:50] | sphery: | you have a valid source of ATSC or QAM? |
| [01:15:55] | Hydr0p0nX: | yep |
| [01:16:03] | Hydr0p0nX: | but myth can't open the tuner |
| [01:16:11] | sphery: | myth = mythtv-setup? |
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| [01:16:27] | sphery: | like, when trying to scan for channels or something |
| [01:16:29] | Hydr0p0nX: | mythtv-setup can't openn it |
| [01:16:42] | Hydr0p0nX: | mythfrontend can't stream from it |
| [01:16:47] | sphery: | you need to have 2 mythtv-setup video sources (one for analog and one for digital channels) |
| [01:17:12] | Hydr0p0nX: | and i can't cat the frontend0 device and get an output |
| [01:17:18] | sphery: | you need to connect the one for the digital channels to the digital capture card's inputs (under connect inputs) after successfully setting up a capture card in mythtv-setup under Capture Cards |
| [01:17:23] | sphery: | then you need to scan for channels |
| [01:18:08] | sphery: | if you pastebin a log file of mythtv-setup showing its failing to access the card, I might have better ideas for you |
| [01:18:16] | Hydr0p0nX: | i'll try it again |
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| [02:01:37] | k-man: | sphery, i'll give it a got after i get this --with-qt3support build finished (at least i'll be testing on OSX) |
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| [02:17:26] | mtrax: | I got a small issue with displaying recordings . how do I debug it? |
| [02:18:11] | Hydr0p0nX: | what kind of issue ? |
| [02:19:23] | mtrax: | one show is recorded and I can see it on the right side of the show recordings screen using ALL programs but I can't see it when I scroll down to that series |
| [02:20:05] | mtrax: | either its a formatting issue or some bad data somewhere |
| [02:20:32] | mtrax: | so should I report it or just delete it and forget about it? |
| [02:26:10] | Hydr0p0nX: | eh |
| [02:26:12] | Hydr0p0nX: | forst |
| [02:26:15] | Hydr0p0nX: | first ... |
| [02:26:27] | Hydr0p0nX: | how well do you know mysql ? |
| [02:27:17] | Hydr0p0nX: | if you know how to login and select a database i can probably give you a query that might give you a hint |
| [02:27:39] | Hydr0p0nX: | if not, i can walk you through this pretty easily |
| [02:31:50] | mtrax: | I know SQL |
| [02:32:48] | Hydr0p0nX: | select seriesid, programid, title, subtitle, recordid from record where title='Pawn Stars'; and select seriesid, programid, title, subtitle, recordid from recorded where title='Pawn Stars'; |
| [02:33:07] | Hydr0p0nX: | change Pawn Stars to the movie/show title |
| [02:33:54] | mtrax: | here is the image of the screen http://tinypic.com/r/8yypp0/5 |
| [02:34:49] | sphery: | mtrax: what version of mythtv |
| [02:34:52] | mtrax: | direct link http://i40.tinypic.com/8yypp0.jpg |
| [02:35:05] | mtrax: | mythtv 0.24 |
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| [02:35:37] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, have you used the theme chooser to download themes on a remote frontend? |
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| [02:36:24] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: hehe, yeah, and I've seen it fail (the first time) on remote and non-remote systems, but also seen it work the first time on remote and non-remote systems |
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| [02:36:30] | ponyofdeath: | hi, anyone know what i need to comiple ffmpeg with to support nuv mythtv files? |
| [02:36:49] | sphery: | seems it always works for me if I try again a 2nd time, though (always figured it was just some timeout) |
| [02:37:36] | Hydr0p0nX: | ponyofdeath, i dealt with that yesterday, the easy fix is to use mythffmpeg |
| [02:38:21] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, ok, thanks. I haven't been able to reproduce it on local FE or by simulating a remote FE by having the FE download from the BE even though it canaccess the downloaded file directly. |
| [02:38:28] | sphery: | mtrax: using EIT? |
| [02:38:44] | ponyofdeath: | Hydr0p0nX: well im using xbmc to stream the files so |
| [02:38:50] | wagnerrp: | ponyofdeath: if you cant get ffmpeg to work, you might try 'mythffmpeg', which is mythtv's internal build using its packaged libav libaries |
| [02:39:07] | Hydr0p0nX: | of course, my fix was a bit of a hack and disabled crop and pad options |
| [02:39:30] | wagnerrp: | otherwise, you can use the route nuvexport takes and use mythtranscode's --fifo options to extract the raw audio and video |
| [02:39:43] | wagnerrp: | or depending on what you want to do, just use nuvexport directly |
| [02:40:13] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: I'll see if I can repro it and look into it (or at least give you a better "how to reproduce" description than you've gotten so far--I'm pretty sure there's far more to it than anyone realizes because I'm seeing it in cases where the "popular" theories say it won't happen) |
| [02:43:36] | Captain_Murdoch: | need to be able to reproduce it with "-v network,file --loglevel debug" on both FE & MBE I think to figure out what's going on. |
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| [02:47:26] | mtrax: | sql output: 172558308 An Idiot Abroad The Bucket List 2679 |
| [02:48:26] | Hydr0p0nX: | hmmm |
| [02:48:54] | Hydr0p0nX: | that all from both queries ? |
| [02:49:02] | mtrax: | perhaps its a bug with Watch Recordings |
| [02:49:06] | Hydr0p0nX: | one was for record and recorded |
| [02:49:14] | mtrax: | ok one moment |
| [02:49:50] | mtrax: | only exists in "recorded" |
| [02:49:53] | Hydr0p0nX: | k |
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| [02:52:26] | Hydr0p0nX: | does it play ? |
| [02:52:27] | mtrax: | I can see it listed fine in MythWeb |
| [02:52:34] | mtrax: | yes plays ok |
| [02:52:45] | Hydr0p0nX: | sounds like it could be bug in the ui then |
| [02:52:51] | mtrax: | but I have to select it from All-Programs |
| [02:52:55] | mtrax: | y |
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| [02:58:10] | Hydr0p0nX: | its odd for sure |
| [02:58:25] | Hydr0p0nX: | do you have something else in that group ? |
| [02:59:06] | mtrax: | I only have one default group |
| [03:00:12] | Hydr0p0nX: | add playgroup to that query i gave you |
| [03:00:44] | Hydr0p0nX: | should have "Default" in that column |
| [03:01:44] | mtrax: | playgroup = Default |
| [03:02:38] | mtrax: | not sure its related by I have two "Deleted" recording which I can't seem to delete |
| [03:03:23] | mtrax: | ie I can see them on mythweb deleted group but they don't delete |
| [03:04:04] | mtrax: | mythtv-docs-0.24.1/contrib/maintenance/flush_deleted_recgroup.pl is getting a rc=-2 |
| [03:04:22] | Hydr0p0nX: | see if the file exists on the file system |
| [03:04:47] | Hydr0p0nX: | if it doesn't, that may be the problem |
| [03:05:44] | mtrax: | how can I detele the db record? |
| [03:06:50] | sphery: | mtrax: is it Live TV |
| [03:07:03] | sphery: | mtrax: chances are your group filter or group view is messed up |
| [03:07:06] | mtrax: | no a recording |
| [03:07:40] | sphery: | see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Q . . . ecordings.3F and play with options in group filter/view |
| [03:08:15] | sphery: | again, though, is it EIT |
| [03:08:20] | wagnerrp: | sphery: if the recordings themselves get filtered out, shouldnt the titles be as well? |
| [03:08:44] | sphery: | well, he's got a title, and a title with description? in it |
| [03:08:52] | sphery: | so I'm thinking it's EIT that's borking everything |
| [03:09:03] | sphery: | i.e. with null chars or something |
| [03:09:08] | sphery: | but still don't know if it's EIT |
| [03:11:00] | mtrax: | checked filter and its correct still doesn't show |
| [03:11:56] | sphery: | what do you have set for view? |
| [03:12:06] | mtrax: | ALL programms |
| [03:12:16] | sphery: | that's the only check box? |
| [03:12:23] | sphery: | (that's checked)? |
| [03:12:40] | mtrax: | sorry I only have show watched checked |
| [03:14:06] | sphery: | you don't have "Show program titles" checked? |
| [03:14:24] | mtrax: | I'll check again one moment |
| [03:14:49] | sphery: | it looks like you have program titles checked at least |
| [03:15:34] | mtrax: | show titles and show watched checked |
| [03:15:43] | sphery: | ok |
| [03:16:12] | sphery: | then that means "An Idiot Abroad The Buc..." is being considered a program title |
| [03:16:21] | sphery: | so, again, are you using EIT |
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| [03:16:47] | sphery: | (or xmltv or Schedules Direct) |
| [03:17:16] | sphery: | and if you select "An Idiot Abroad" (with the "The Buc...") do you see the episode? |
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| [03:19:32] | mtrax: | no I should have EIT disabled |
| [03:19:55] | mtrax: | I'm downloading data from XML |
| [03:20:21] | mtrax: | I have three titles with simlar names |
| [03:21:14] | mtrax: | the other two are called "An Idiot Abroad" |
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| [03:21:29] | mtrax: | with subtitle of "Bucket list" |
| [03:22:00] | mtrax: | NB the first one was a problem with xml data ie didn't get the title correct |
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| [03:29:24] | mtrax: | on a side note I'm trying to run find_orphans,py but its throwing ": No such file or directory" |
| [03:29:44] | mtrax: | I pasted from wiki and run using : ./find_orphans.py |
| [03:30:06] | sphery: | mtrax: what does this show? mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "SELECT chanid, starttime, title, subtitle FROM recorded WHERE title LIKE '%\0%' OR subtitle LIKE '%\0%' OR description LIKE '%\0%';" |
| [03:30:09] | wagnerrp: | what is throwing? the script or mythbackend? |
| [03:30:21] | mtrax: | the script |
| [03:30:53] | wagnerrp: | it shouldnt, as the only file or directory it tries to access are the python bindings, and your config.xml that points to your database |
| [03:31:01] | wagnerrp: | it does not perform any other file access |
| [03:31:21] | ertyu-m: | try 'python find_orphans.py' |
| [03:31:28] | wagnerrp: | and neither of those two issues should result in those errors |
| [03:31:40] | wagnerrp: | can you pastebin the actual output you are seeing? |
| [03:35:01] | mtrax: | ok python worked orphans deleted. thanks |
| [03:35:31] | mtrax: | now executing sql cmd |
| [03:36:30] | wagnerrp: | you dont have the 'env' application? |
| [03:36:37] | wagnerrp: | what kind of messed up distro are you running? |
| [03:37:56] | sphery: | are you trying to say that coreutils is, somehow, a core part of a GNU-based OS? |
| [03:38:02] | sphery: | seems kind of a strong statement to make :) |
| [03:38:14] | mtrax: | fedora 14 |
| [03:38:20] | mtrax: | what is env? |
| [03:38:50] | wagnerrp: | a tool that searches your environment for an executable |
| [03:39:14] | mtrax: | perhaps I haven't got it installed? |
| [03:39:16] | wagnerrp: | different distros put python in a different location |
| [03:39:30] | sphery: | could be that python isn't in the path and he really invoked the script with some /path/to/python26 or whatever |
| [03:39:30] | wagnerrp: | so as a work around, you use '/usr/bin/env python' on the bang line |
| [03:39:41] | sphery: | maybe? |
| [03:39:58] | mtrax: | that SQL is not returning ANY records |
| [03:40:05] | wagnerrp: | so when you try to run the script, it calls env to find python, and then uses the selected path of python as the interpreter |
| [03:40:27] | wagnerrp: | if you are getting that error, it means your shell is finding no such file at /usr/bin/env |
| [03:40:47] | sphery: | mtrax: ok, I have no idea what's happening, then... it has to be some filter or something |
| [03:40:57] | sphery: | likely with some interplay with some setting |
| [03:41:07] | sphery: | but no idea what specifically |
| [03:41:23] | mtrax: | my env is in the /bin/ folder |
| [03:41:25] | wagnerrp: | and i just checked, after logging out, the version of the script on the wiki still says '#!/usr/bin/env python', so its not the ever annoying caching issue |
| [03:41:28] | sphery: | can you imagebin a pic of your Show Group Filters dialog? |
| [03:42:09] | mtrax: | should I do screen shot from myth of Linux |
| [03:42:13] | sphery: | hehe, so RH decided to move their env to /bin |
| [03:42:28] | sphery: | guess they're using it in some startup scripts |
| [03:42:49] | sphery: | mtrax: however you got the one that showed teh watch recordings screen is fine |
| [03:43:04] | wagnerrp: | sphery: and they removed the symlink from /usr/bin/env |
| [03:43:31] | k-man: | jya, do you know where i might be able to read up on how to build a .app package for OSX? |
| [03:44:10] | jya: | there's not one place that I could refer to |
| [03:44:17] | jya: | Apple only documents for when using xcode |
| [03:44:18] | jya: | http://developer.qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-4.8/deployment-mac.html |
| [03:44:24] | jya: | is probably the best place I found |
| [03:44:39] | jya: | their deployment tool however is hopeless |
| [03:44:51] | jya: | can't work for mythtv and all its dependent libraries |
| [03:44:56] | ertyu-m: | you can use PackageMaker without xcode |
| [03:45:02] | wagnerrp: | sphery: alcor is running RHEL6 (or maybe CentOS6)... "lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 13 Jan 2 22:50 /usr/bin/env -> ../../bin/env" |
| [03:45:09] | wagnerrp: | i still say his system is just screwed up |
| [03:48:48] | mtrax: | rwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 13 Sep 3 09:57 /usr/bin/env -> ../../bin/env |
| [03:51:17] | mtrax: | image : http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=205csoy&s=5 |
| [03:54:44] | jya: | ertyu-m: PackageMaker doesn't create a bundle, it creates an installer |
| [03:55:17] | ertyu-m: | oops |
| [03:56:44] | jya: | now if only someone could tell me for Qt to load my sqldrivers plugins :( |
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| [04:08:12] | sphery: | mtrax: ok, I have no idea what's happening, but I'm guessing it's borked listings data (such as the null characters in the strings I mentioned) |
| [04:08:44] | sphery: | mtrax: try the SQL at http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8707#comment:5 (but /only/ the SQL in comment 5, from kenni, then restart mythbackend/mythfrontend and see if it works |
| [04:09:01] | sphery: | mtrax: if it does, then you need to upgrade to a more current -fixes version (ideally current 0.24-fixes) |
| [04:09:49] | sphery: | but that particular issue should be fixed in 0.23-fixes, 0.24-fixes, and unstable (but you need relatively current revisions of each) |
| [04:14:30] | mtrax: | version: fixes/0.24 [v0.24.1-106-g31e9528] |
| [04:15:26] | mtrax: | I can probably repair this situation but just thought incase it was a bug I should report it |
| [04:15:38] | mtrax: | ie I can delete recording as I have watched it |
| [04:17:48] | sphery: | well, if you report it, ideally you'd at least have enough information to allow someone to reproduce it or identify it or ... |
| [04:18:08] | sphery: | as it is, it's probably not an actionable report because we don't have enough information to fi xit |
| [04:18:25] | sphery: | your version is new enough to have the null value fix, so it's not likely that one |
| [04:18:43] | sphery: | (don't have enough information to even find the bug let alone fix it) |
| [04:21:56] | mtrax: | btw the python issue was a dos2unix problem ie dos file not unix |
| [04:22:26] | mtrax: | ie env is fine |
| [04:22:42] | mtrax: | ok nw I'll go ahead an delete recording |
| [04:22:52] | wagnerrp: | so it couldnt find 'python^M'? |
| [04:23:01] | mtrax: | perhaps :( |
| [04:23:22] | mtrax: | converted to unix and works fine now |
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| [05:27:55] | tranqu: | That was pretty lame |
| [05:28:25] | tranqu: | House got pre-empted by NASCAR and SD didn't correct the schedule while Titantv did |
| [05:29:06] | tranqu: | just a heads-up to anyone that watches House |
| [05:29:34] | tranqu: | delete you House episode from today allow re-record |
| [05:30:08] | sphery: | tranqu: out of curiosity, do you use --dd-grab-all? |
| [05:30:28] | sphery: | I have a feeling it was corrected, but you either don't use --dd-grab-all or you pulled too late to get the corection |
| [05:30:33] | tranqu: | otherwise you get to watch specialized machines drying the tracks at daytona |
| [05:30:41] | sphery: | s/late/early/ |
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| [05:31:04] | sphery: | mine ran with --dd-grab-all at 05:50 EST, and didn't get an update |
| [05:31:16] | sphery: | but I'd guess people who ran --dd-grab-all later in the day got it |
| [05:31:35] | sphery: | after all, I'm pretty sure titantv gets their data from the same place SD gets theirs (TMS) |
| [05:32:22] | tranqu: | according to my MBE log mine updated this morning at 6am (by that time it was known that NASCAR was going to be broadcast tonignt instead of last night) |
| [05:32:23] | sphery: | tranqu: see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/449426#449426 and https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/d2822566 |
| [05:32:50] | tranqu: | sphery: maybe, all I know is titantv has correct listings |
| [05:33:08] | sphery: | right, but a) without --dd-grab-all, you're not updating today's listings and b) not only do you have to wait until it's known, but also until it's updated |
| [05:33:21] | sphery: | I can say that it wasn't updated at about 6:00am |
| [05:34:00] | sphery: | but you should probably /still/ be using --dd-grab-all if your backend and mysql server systems are sufficiently powerful to handle it, since you seem to want updates |
| [05:34:20] | sphery: | so I highly recommend looking at those linked posts if you haven't set up dd-grab-all yet |
| [05:34:36] | tranqu: | I dunno |
| [05:34:52] | tranqu: | dd-grab-all seems a bit wasteful |
| [05:35:01] | wagnerrp: | wasteful how? |
| [05:35:08] | sphery: | it's actually less work for TMS/Schedules Direct |
| [05:35:17] | sphery: | and it's better for you |
| [05:35:28] | sphery: | updates all the available data instead of just tomorrow and +13 |
| [05:35:38] | tranqu: | the even more funny thing is SD upated next week's house episode |
| [05:35:56] | tranqu: | (no SD update between 6AM and now) |
| [05:36:31] | tranqu: | so SD it can certainly be argued SD had know what was up :) |
| [05:36:39] | sphery: | that said, thanks for the heads up on house. just deleted mine |
| [05:36:46] | tranqu: | *known |
| [05:39:46] | tranqu: | SD should have a delete previous recorded feature :) |
| [05:39:47] | wagnerrp: | sphery: considering TMS provides one day back, i wonder how hard it would be to test for those changes, and automatically mark for re-record |
| [05:40:24] | tranqu: | wagnerrp: exactly |
| [05:40:28] | sphery: | tranqu: I'm not seeing House showing next week... I think you're looking at old data for next Monday? (I have a 2hr Alcatraz episode) |
| [05:41:02] | wagnerrp: | no, i recorded house and alcatraz tonight |
| [05:41:12] | tranqu: | but the more important anomaly is wy SD seems to have updated next weeks showing of House w/o revoking today's show |
| [05:41:27] | wagnerrp: | scanning through each and every entry would be a waste |
| [05:41:34] | tranqu: | sphery: no, I'm definitely seeing next week |
| [05:41:38] | wagnerrp: | but it should be fairly simple to check the past day of recordings |
| [05:41:50] | wagnerrp: | and match them up with the new data that got pulled in after a --dd-grab-all |
| [05:42:08] | sphery: | wagnerrp: what do you mean you recorded house and alcatraz tonight? you recorded the daytona 500 but had wrong data tonight, right? |
| [05:42:14] | sphery: | and what do you have next monday? |
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| [05:42:20] | sphery: | I have a 2hr alcatraz and not house |
| [05:42:32] | wagnerrp: | yes, i recorded the daytona 500, when mythtv thought it was recording house and alcatraz |
| [05:42:41] | tranqu: | | 1738 | 2012-03–09 13:00:00 | 2012-03–09 14:00:00 | House | Love Is Blind | The team works to save a blind man with a mysterious illness; House's mother makes an unexpected visit. | |
| [05:42:59] | tranqu: | sphery: although that's not really an "update" |
| [05:42:59] | sphery: | and you have a 2hr alcatraz next week, right? |
| [05:43:08] | sphery: | tranqu: the 9th is Friday's normal House repeats |
| [05:43:20] | wagnerrp: | next friday, 2hr alcatraz |
| [05:43:27] | sphery: | not Mon Mar 5 |
| [05:43:35] | tranqu: | ahh, k |
| [05:44:12] | tranqu: | hehe, I didn't even know house gets repeated on Friday |
| [05:44:33] | wagnerrp: | on friday, i get kitchen nightmares |
| [05:44:44] | wagnerrp: | i have no house recording in the next two weeks |
| [05:45:03] | sphery: | yeah, no house in next 2 weeks for me, either |
| [05:45:10] | tranqu: | isn't is season finale soon? |
| [05:45:17] | sphery: | I think tranqu really needs to turn on --dd-grab-all :) |
| [05:45:26] | tranqu: | *it |
| [05:45:51] | wagnerrp: | sphery: has xr is ever mentioned whether TMS offers push events? |
| [05:47:29] | sphery: | I don't remember... thought he said something about it being planned when they got switched to using their own servers or something |
| [05:47:46] | sphery: | think it needed some programming work done (and they haven't found anyone to do it) |
| [05:53:41] | lolcat`: | Hello |
| [05:54:09] | lolcat`: | My cable tv provider requires me to use a CI module and a program card, can I still use methtv? |
| [05:54:48] | sphery: | lolcat`: what country are you in? |
| [05:54:59] | lolcat`: | Norway |
| [05:55:00] | tranqu: | sphery: UK |
| [05:55:07] | tranqu: | doh! |
| [05:55:54] | sphery: | we do have some support for hardware-based CI/CAM |
| [05:55:59] | lolcat`: | Canal Digital is my privder |
| [05:56:00] | sphery: | I don't know any details about it, though |
| [05:56:06] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Manual:DVB |
| [05:56:34] | lolcat`: | If I got it could I pvr? |
| [05:56:47] | sphery: | in theory, yes |
| [05:57:04] | lolcat`: | 4 at once? |
| [05:57:29] | sphery: | I do recommend asking somewhere where Norwegian users could give you additional info... For example, you could post to mythtv-users mailing list and ask what others are using. |
| [05:57:47] | wagnerrp: | if you have a card that actually supports CAMs and doesnt just have a USB card reader built in, and the card is slotted in with smart card installed, mythtv should just use it |
| [05:58:20] | wagnerrp: | all mythtv as to do in that case is poke the card in such a manner that the card uses the CAM and outputs unencrypted video |
| [05:58:41] | lolcat`: | And that could be recorded and moved? |
| [05:58:55] | sphery: | so just need to find a DVB device that supports the card type used by your provider, I guess |
| [05:59:11] | wagnerrp: | if instead, the tuner card just provides a card reader, or you expect to use a card reader separate from the tuner card, mythtv cannot pipe the encrypted output from the tuner into the card reader itself |
| [05:59:20] | wagnerrp: | it will simply not record the encrypted content |
| [05:59:54] | wagnerrp: | CI is CI, any tuner card (supported in linux) with a CI slot should do |
| [05:59:56] | lolcat`: | I have a CI module that I stick straigth into my television |
| [06:00:09] | lolcat`: | Wich is also a CAM |
| [06:00:17] | lolcat`: | That can read my program card |
| [06:00:26] | wagnerrp: | its the modular CAM that implements the various forms of encryption used by different providers |
| [06:00:51] | wagnerrp: | you should be able to slot that CAM you have in your TV into any other DVB+CI device and have it work |
| [06:01:47] | lolcat`: | Hmm |
| [06:01:53] | lolcat`: | Happaunge sells that? |
| [06:02:14] | wagnerrp: | i do not believe hauppauge sells any cards with functional CI slots |
| [06:02:21] | wagnerrp: | they have a separate USB card reader |
| [06:02:33] | wagnerrp: | but as explained, mythtv does not support that mode of operation |
| [06:02:45] | wagnerrp: | it requires the tuner card handle everything internally |
| [06:02:49] | lolcat`: | http://www.komplett.no/k/kc.aspx?bn=11027 |
| [06:03:16] | wagnerrp: | lolcat`: stick around for a couple hours, let the rest of europe wake up and become active in the channel |
| [06:03:50] | wagnerrp: | talk to someone with actual experience using these things |
| [06:03:51] | lolcat`: | TerraTec Cinergy S7, will that do? |
| [06:03:59] | lolcat`: | I will |
| [06:04:04] | lolcat`: | I never log off irc |
| [06:04:13] | wagnerrp: | anything sphery and i are spouting out are just guesses based off what weve heard |
| [06:05:45] | lolcat`: | Do I need DVB-T or DVB-C? |
| [06:06:03] | sphery: | as I understand it, dvb-c is cable |
| [06:06:12] | sphery: | and -t is terrestrial/over-the-air |
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| [06:10:24] | lolcat`: | TerraTec Cinergy H7 works with my cable provider on windows |
| [06:16:07] | lolcat`: | TerraTec Cinergy C PCI HD CI |
| [06:16:12] | lolcat`: | I guess pci is cooler |
| [06:24:03] | lolcat`: | SO card sharing is possible? |
| [06:24:09] | wagnerrp: | no |
| [06:24:15] | lolcat`: | hmm |
| [06:24:22] | wagnerrp: | one smart card, one cam, per tuner card |
| [06:24:37] | lolcat`: | I sort of like the built in tuner on the television |
| [06:24:51] | lolcat`: | Would be easier with a softcam |
| [06:25:24] | wagnerrp: | sadly, the primary use of softcams is to steal cable/satellite |
| [06:25:33] | wagnerrp: | so we dont support them |
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| [06:28:23] | lolcat`: | Oh, I am a paying subscriber |
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| [06:28:33] | wagnerrp: | im not doubting that |
| [06:28:46] | wagnerrp: | just explaining the reason why we do not support softcams |
| [06:28:59] | lolcat`: | I would just like the combination of built in tuner and pvr tuner |
| [06:29:08] | wagnerrp: | and instead require the use of tuner cards capable of handling all the decryption internally |
| [06:29:34] | lolcat`: | Yep, it seems it is impossible to use softcams on Conax |
| [06:31:29] | lolcat`: | meh, cam + card is expencive |
| [06:33:47] | lolcat`: | But when I record, can I export what I've recorded? |
| [06:33:52] | lolcat`: | Can I stream live tv? |
| [06:34:13] | wagnerrp: | mythtv does not use or support any form of drm |
| [06:35:09] | wagnerrp: | it will stream over its own internal protocol to any frontend that wants it |
| [06:35:16] | wagnerrp: | mythtv is inherently network transparent |
| [06:35:20] | lolcat`: | DLNA? |
| [06:35:34] | wagnerrp: | allowing multiple recording backends to stream to multiple playback frontends |
| [06:35:46] | wagnerrp: | it does not support live tv over UPnP/DNLA |
| [06:35:54] | wagnerrp: | but you can access pre-recorded content using that |
| [06:36:50] | lolcat`: | So with one card I can either watch or record? But I need a second card to record twice? |
| [06:37:11] | wagnerrp: | or watch twice |
| [06:37:35] | wagnerrp: | or watch and record |
| [06:37:41] | lolcat`: | I read somewhere someone being able to record 4 canals at the same time? |
| [06:37:56] | wagnerrp: | using four separate tuners |
| [06:38:13] | lolcat`: | As I understood it was a dual happaunge |
| [06:38:13] | wagnerrp: | one CAM only supports simultaneous decryption of one stream |
| [06:38:41] | lolcat`: | Hmm |
| [06:38:42] | wagnerrp: | however you can record up to 5 shows on the same multiplex simultaneously if they are not decrypted |
| [06:38:55] | lolcat`: | encrypted you mean? |
| [06:39:00] | wagnerrp: | yeah |
| [06:39:06] | lolcat`: | Hmm |
| [06:41:23] | lolcat`: | I guess the content I want is on mostly unencrypted channels |
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| [07:02:02] | jya: | sphery: can't there be a different set of access rules between the github.com/Mythtv repo ? |
| [07:02:45] | sphery: | you mean could we have left the themes in MythTV project and set different rules on different repos in there? |
| [07:02:50] | sphery: | if so, yes |
| [07:02:51] | jya: | yes |
| [07:03:20] | sphery: | but the repos didn't really need to be in the same repo as mythtv theme |
| [07:03:27] | sphery: | er, as mythtv program |
| [07:03:39] | jya: | while I appreciate the clear distinction between the two github project, we could have had exactly the same new setup while keeping it in Mythtv |
| [07:03:49] | sphery: | true |
| [07:04:22] | sphery: | my point in the mail/commit message was more that breaking individual themes into separate repos allows us to set fine-grained access controls |
| [07:04:38] | sphery: | may not have made that very clear, though |
| [07:04:45] | jya: | ah, I see what you mean... |
| [07:05:01] | jya: | it's effectively moving everything up the ladder |
| [07:05:09] | [R]: | myth should just be text based... solves the whole theme problem... |
| [07:05:14] | sphery: | hehe |
| [07:05:20] | jya: | that's the nice thing about svn there, setting finely tunes ACL is so much easier |
| [07:06:04] | jya: | well, [R] you can always create a libcaca based video module, so you can watch TV over ssh |
| [07:06:08] | sphery: | yeah |
| [07:06:13] | [R]: | lol |
| [07:06:29] | jya: | anyone tried the libcaca module in VLC? it's pretty cool |
| [07:06:36] | [R]: | i've used it in mplayer |
| [07:06:42] | sphery: | Beirdo has been playing with gitolite for managing the repo on our new server and it seems to have many of the capabilities of SVN ACLs--including per-directory permissions |
| [07:06:46] | sphery: | kind of cool project |
| [07:07:03] | jya: | such a great name … libcaca… libshit |
| [07:07:34] | jya: | sphery: I don't see how git could handle a per directory submission, provided a commit is fundamentally global to the whole repo... |
| [07:08:01] | jya: | would be interested to see how they do it.. because this is one currently make me stick to svn |
| [07:08:12] | sphery: | right, the "facade" in front of git does it |
| [07:09:15] | Beirdo: | it's called "hooks" |
| [07:09:23] | sphery: | ahhh |
| [07:10:06] | Beirdo: | they do even more hooks than standard git, right from the ssh connection, it has a hook for pre-git |
| [07:10:10] | jya: | Beirdo: is that how they do it.. some kind of pre-commit hook looking at which directory you're touching ? |
| [07:10:20] | Beirdo: | yup, as best I can tell |
| [07:10:28] | Beirdo: | and branch. |
| [07:10:31] | jya: | gosh that must be painfully slow |
| [07:10:35] | Beirdo: | why? |
| [07:11:03] | jya: | looking deep into the commit , just to see the folder you're touching... |
| [07:11:14] | Beirdo: | it would be O(N) on the number of rules |
| [07:11:26] | [R]: | ah... the "deep code level" |
| [07:11:30] | jya: | what happened if you modify a directory that you can touch, and one that you can't.. does it block the whole lot or just the one you can't? |
| [07:11:42] | Beirdo: | it would block the whole thing, I guess |
| [07:11:45] | sphery: | I'd hope the whole thing |
| [07:12:03] | Beirdo: | I haven't tested that part yet as *so* far, we have no need |
| [07:12:03] | jya: | maybe worth some investigation |
| [07:12:05] | sphery: | (otherwise, you could leave the repo in a broken state) |
| [07:12:26] | Beirdo: | it does pretty well at controlling at the branch level though |
| [07:12:34] | jya: | i got used to the branching in git… espeically the possibility of tracking rename... |
| [07:12:50] | Beirdo: | yeah, it's pretty sweet |
| [07:13:22] | sphery: | my only complaint with rename tracking is the default value for max renames is way too small |
| [07:13:33] | sphery: | (at least it was for the 0.24->0.25 dev cycle) |
| [07:13:41] | Beirdo: | wah wah :) |
| [07:13:49] | sphery: | so I constantly had to look up the syntax to override it |
| [07:13:50] | jya: | I learn to revert a commit with git yesterday, I was surprised that it has to show the commit you're going back to, as "revert" |
| [07:13:51] | Beirdo: | so change that :) it's on the client side |
| [07:14:19] | Beirdo: | ummm, yah |
| [07:14:34] | jya: | it was a bit confusing, as it looked that my revert, was reverting wagnerrp one.. when i had nothing to do with it |
| [07:15:11] | Beirdo: | umm, the first one you committed, DID revert his commit ;) |
| [07:15:21] | Beirdo: | you didn't use git revert, did you? |
| [07:15:26] | jya: | I did |
| [07:15:32] | Beirdo: | how odd |
| [07:15:36] | jya: | I tried two method |
| [07:15:50] | jya: | one was git revert --no-commit for all the commits to the one I wanted to go back to |
| [07:16:02] | jya: | then I found a nicer method describe in the git book |
| [07:16:06] | Beirdo: | that's not how to do it |
| [07:16:13] | jya: | hard reset to the one I wanted to revert to |
| [07:16:24] | Beirdo: | the best way is to revert the specific commit. No resets at all |
| [07:16:31] | jya: | then git reset --soft @(1) (or something like that) |
| [07:16:58] | Beirdo: | why would you want to do that? |
| [07:17:00] | jya: | this one was only two operations on how to revert several commits at once |
| [07:17:13] | Beirdo: | so revert them individually :) |
| [07:17:19] | jya: | because I had 6 commits to revert, and I wanted only one operation to do |
| [07:17:20] | Beirdo: | anyways... |
| [07:17:43] | Beirdo: | in the end, I think we have a better situation now with both scripts still there |
| [07:18:14] | Beirdo: | and I think we got caught in the trap of electronic communications breaking down as compared to face-to-face |
| [07:18:49] | Beirdo: | at least that's what it looked like from here. We'll come back to it after the release and finish the process. Thanks so much for getting it started. |
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| [07:19:16] | jya: | Beirdo: both scripts have always been there |
| [07:20:31] | jya: | I gave stuarta two methods to continue working exactly as before, without touching any of the existing build. he decided to use the new Qt anyway. then got into an out of memory error (which is weird btw).. Anyhow, I had a private chat with him , all sorted now |
| [07:21:33] | jya: | hummm… I think I've met another Qt bug… been there for a while.. preventing to set the configuration with qt.conf file is |
| [07:22:06] | Beirdo: | A Qt bug? you don't say! :) |
| [07:22:17] | jya: | that's like my 6th on a mac... |
| [07:22:24] | ** Beirdo kicks Qt in the nuts. buggy piece of... ** | |
| [07:22:39] | jya: | the first 5 I could fix, because we compile it ourselves |
| [07:23:05] | jya: | but that one is in the SDK you download |
| [07:23:22] | jya: | they test where the qt.conf file is if if (!QFile::exists(qtconfig) && QCoreApplication::instance()) |
| [07:23:50] | jya: | but at this stage in the code QCoreApplication::instance() always returns null, applicaton hasn't been created yet |
| [07:24:12] | Beirdo: | nice |
| [07:24:28] | jya: | so it always assume that there aren't qt.conf |
| [07:24:58] | jya: | this is why the mac application created crash if you run it, without first deleting the directory where you built it |
| [07:25:20] | jya: | because it starts loading the lib from the system Qt, then load the Qt lib stored in the application bundle |
| [07:25:31] | jya: | two instances of Qt lib, always end up crashing |
| [07:26:21] | [R]: | don't they say 2 qt's are better than 1? |
| [07:26:34] | [R]: | oh no, that's cuties |
| [07:27:56] | Beirdo: | hah |
| [07:28:04] | Beirdo: | even then, doubtful |
| [07:28:08] | [R]: | lol |
| [07:28:15] | Beirdo: | one cutie will kill you in your sleep |
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| [08:45:13] | wagnerrp: | hahahahaha.... |
| [08:45:34] | wagnerrp: | "How many Colombians does it take to start a fire? Just Juan." |
| [08:46:54] | [R]: | lol |
| [08:47:59] | [R]: | http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-EN210-SILENT-DI- . . . t_500wt_1180 |
| [08:48:02] | [R]: | why would anyone buy that |
| [08:48:22] | wagnerrp: | "NO-VIDEO"? |
| [08:48:32] | [R]: | yeah |
| [08:49:04] | wagnerrp: | maybe you need a heatsink |
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| [08:58:21] | wagnerrp: | [R]: in case you thought that was just a cute play on names, Juan Montoya hit one of the gas turbine dryers during the daytona 500 |
| [08:58:40] | wagnerrp: | spilling kerosene all over the place, and setting the track on fire |
| [08:58:50] | [R]: | kerosene? |
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| [08:59:12] | wagnerrp: | yes, the stuff gas turbines run on |
| [08:59:38] | wagnerrp: | if you prefer, we could call it JP-1 |
| [09:00:09] | [R]: | oh, i know what the is |
| [09:00:11] | [R]: | that* |
| [09:02:08] | [R]: | so i've been playing gta iv |
| [09:02:16] | [R]: | the cops freak out if you just nudge their cars |
| [09:03:10] | wagnerrp: | yeah, the cops around here do that too |
| [09:04:16] | [R]: | lol |
| [09:04:17] | [R]: | http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nvidia-GeForce-GT-220 . . . t_989wt_1165 |
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| [09:04:21] | [R]: | another one... |
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| [09:22:51] | Beirdo: | I thought JP-1 was kerosene plus something else? |
| [09:23:10] | Beirdo: | anyways, nice move, Montoya |
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| [10:24:27] | justinh: | so i upgraded the ran in my backend to 3gb & scheduling a recording is still taking like 30 seconds. gah |
| [10:25:02] | tranqu: | ran is good |
| [10:25:35] | justinh: | ram. ssh on my phone. lol |
| [10:26:31] | justinh: | mysql queries on that machine arestill too slow :-( |
| [10:27:07] | tranqu: | or you just record too much crap |
| [10:27:43] | justinh: | 128 rules. about 30 channels |
| [10:27:53] | tranqu: | sheesh |
| [10:28:11] | tranqu: | that's quite a bit |
| [10:28:21] | justinh: | no it isnt |
| [10:28:43] | wagnerrp: | 30 channels is fairly light |
| [10:28:51] | wagnerrp: | arent you supposed to have closer to 60 in the UK? |
| [10:29:07] | tranqu: | 128 rules ~ 25 rules/peson for 5 people |
| [10:29:22] | tranqu: | *person |
| [10:29:29] | justinh: | for sone reason the default mysql setup on *buntu is a load of crap |
| [10:29:38] | tranqu: | that's way too much tv |
| [10:30:36] | justinh: | you forget that ot all programmes are currebtly shown, mister arbiter |
| [10:30:56] | tranqu: | lol |
| [10:31:03] | tranqu: | still too much tv |
| [10:31:03] | wagnerrp: | tranqu: perhaps theyre specials that only happen once or twice a year |
| [10:31:17] | justinh: | and mythtv doesnt clear out old rules |
| [10:31:18] | wagnerrp: | or once that have been canned, but never cleaned out |
| [10:31:31] | wagnerrp: | *ones |
| [10:31:44] | tranqu: | justinh: you'd think maybe that'd be your first optimization |
| [10:31:56] | justinh: | pfft |
| [10:32:13] | wagnerrp: | actually, those old rules that dont match anything really make little difference |
| [10:32:13] | justinh: | it's never exactly been quicj |
| [10:32:49] | tranqu: | wagnerrp: not if there are repeats in the schedule |
| [10:32:54] | wagnerrp: | at 30 seconds run time, its like 1–2 seconds match, and another 29 seconds filtering out duplicates among those matches and previous recording, and selecting out the best |
| [10:33:10] | tranqu: | bingo! |
| [10:33:16] | wagnerrp: | if they dont match anything, there are no repeats to make a difference |
| [10:33:38] | wagnerrp: | they only factor into that 1–2 second bit |
| [10:33:49] | justinh: | there are way too many optoons & permutations imho |
| [10:34:26] | tranqu: | if they are in oldrecorded, they are certainly going to factor |
| [10:34:47] | justinh: | mwh |
| [10:35:04] | justinh: | it's too damn slow end of story |
| [10:35:30] | wagnerrp: | tranqu: no, if a recording rule does not turn up any matches in the future, there will be nothing to check against in oldrecorded |
| [10:35:50] | wagnerrp: | duplicate matching is not limited to shows made with the same recording rule |
| [10:36:03] | justinh: | anyway duplicate finding is disabled |
| [10:36:14] | wagnerrp: | and its still 30 seconds? |
| [10:36:46] | wagnerrp: | just how much do you pick up in the first pass? |
| [10:37:00] | justinh: | I got tired of fixing stuff where myth thought things were already recorded |
| [10:37:19] | wagnerrp: | generic recordings that didnt get marked as generic? |
| [10:37:45] | justinh: | uk rt is a bit rubbish for that |
| [10:38:22] | lucas^: | f15 -> f16 upgrade didn't go so well |
| [10:38:42] | justinh: | i keep thinking about moving to eit only |
| [10:38:43] | lucas^: | is there an automated backup of the mythconverg database, and if so, can I just drop it in and hope everything works? |
| [10:39:06] | justinh: | yes |
| [10:39:16] | wagnerrp: | yes, mythtv-setup makes an automated backup just prior to schema updating |
| [10:39:25] | wagnerrp: | stored in the database backups storage group if defined |
| [10:39:35] | wagnerrp: | or the default storage group if not |
| [10:39:38] | tranqu: | lucas^: depends if you ran backup prior to updating :) |
| [10:40:16] | justinh: | everybody should be doing daily db backups anyway by rights |
| [10:40:36] | lucas^: | mythconverg-1264–20110929153155.sql |
| [10:40:40] | lucas^: | looks like it's a year old :/ |
| [10:40:57] | tranqu: | 5 months :) |
| [10:41:05] | tranqu: | not quite a year |
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| [10:41:53] | tranqu: | lucas^: on the off chance you haven't run new myth... |
| [10:42:03] | wagnerrp: | what do you mean by 'didnt go so well'? |
| [10:42:11] | wagnerrp: | your database is irrecoverably lost? |
| [10:42:12] | lucas^: | preupgrade crashed halfway |
| [10:42:14] | justinh: | maybe ime to bin ubuntu :-) |
| [10:42:14] | lucas^: | like it always does |
| [10:42:17] | tranqu: | wagnerrp: he upgraded whole distro |
| [10:42:28] | lucas^: | so I basically had to wipe and reinstall as recommended by #fedora freenode |
| [10:42:38] | lucas^: | database is gone |
| [10:42:43] | tranqu: | sheesh |
| [10:42:48] | justinh: | oops |
| [10:42:49] | tranqu: | that sucks |
| [10:43:01] | wagnerrp: | well that was #fedora telling you to do bad things |
| [10:43:05] | tranqu: | never follow net advice blindly |
| [10:43:30] | lucas^: | wasn't much else I could do, half of the packages were correctly installed and the rest (kernel, etc.) never had postinstall stuff completed |
| [10:43:31] | justinh: | a lesson to be learned here. why did you need to upgrade anyway? |
| [10:43:54] | wagnerrp: | lucas^: so drop into single user mode, and finish the update |
| [10:43:54] | tranqu: | seriously, this day and age you shuld just set up new distro on another partition |
| [10:44:26] | tranqu: | that way it will be an easy revert if update doesn't work out |
| [10:44:31] | lucas^: | tried manually installing the one insignificant package in single-user and rebooting to finish it out |
| [10:44:47] | lucas^: | but the post-install stuff only ran on those packages that installed afterward |
| [10:45:00] | lucas^: | ah well I don't think I had many recordings that weren't already transcoded |
| [10:45:28] | tranqu: | yeah well, even transcoded recordings are in db |
| [10:45:36] | lucas^: | is there a new release coming out soon, where it'd make sense to just wait until then before reconfiguring everything? |
| [10:46:24] | tranqu: | that depends on your threshold of pain |
| [10:46:32] | lucas^: | I use Fedora |
| [10:46:36] | lucas^: | it's pretty high |
| [10:46:42] | tranqu: | lol |
| [10:46:51] | tranqu: | just stick with f15 |
| [10:47:06] | tranqu: | even f15 is not all wine & roses |
| [10:47:17] | tranqu: | so f16 is going to be way worse |
| [10:47:29] | lucas^: | I'm in F16 right now, call me crazy but I kinda like it |
| [10:47:54] | tranqu: | I don't need that kind of excitement for mythbackend |
| [10:48:10] | tranqu: | no sex for weeks :) |
| [10:48:32] | lucas^: | nouveau actually works, gnome3 is more stable, that annoying graphical bug where half the terminal refuses to redraw itself is gone, no major headaches after a clean install, brtfs is quite a bit faster than what I was using before |
| [10:48:37] | lucas^: | but this is #mythtv so I'll shut up |
| [10:50:09] | tranqu: | lucas^: are you going for ideological purity? |
| [10:50:32] | tranqu: | lucas^: what's the big draw about nouveau? |
| [10:51:02] | lucas^: | nah, it's just impressive that it's that far along I guess |
| [10:51:14] | lucas^: | no vdpau support so I'll install nvidia's blob soon |
| [10:51:52] | tranqu: | lucas^: I'd be MUCH more impressed if you got myth working well on radeon :) |
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| [11:05:23] | wagnerrp: | with any luck, btrfs will give you that 'install system to a new partition' automatically |
| [11:05:50] | wagnerrp: | just snapshot before, update, and rollback using a rescue image if there are any failures |
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| [11:06:16] | wagnerrp: | works well enough for freebsd/zfs |
| [11:07:17] | justinh: | tranqu: I don't think lucas^ is any kind of sourcerer :-P |
| [11:09:48] | justinh: | might try linux mint or whatever next. time to go look at distrowatch |
| [11:10:22] | justinh: | I *could* always try building mysql from source to see if it's any better speed-wise but if I'm prepared to go to that kind of length... |
| [11:11:43] | justinh: | anyway, how long *should* a simple 'single record' operation be taking? |
| [11:12:10] | justinh: | just between pressing R in the guide & the icon appearing... |
| [11:13:50] | lucas^: | usually takes around 1–2 seconds on my system |
| [11:14:12] | lucas^: | but then I don't have any other databases on mysql |
| [11:14:32] | justinh: | I don't either |
| [11:35:02] | justinh: | maybe I need to hone my mysql system command-fu |
| [11:36:34] | justinh: | mysqltuner.pl reckons some things could be better |
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| [11:52:23] | justinh: | ach well. I'll find time later |
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| [14:05:37] | ThisNewGuy: | hey all – does anyone have a good way to convert the mythtv mailing lists to RSS feeds? I currently use the gossamer-threads rss feeds but those don't have every message and cut off the full message length |
| [14:06:56] | pyrodex-work: | Question: Is there any intelligence in 0.25 so that when a Tuning Adapter doesn't do it's job and can't change the channel mythtv can detect it? For example I had a recording last night and the HDHR calls were fine but when the HDHR tried to use the TA it failed. Mythtv started to see file size updates for the recording but after the first update (560KBish) it stopped… not sure if mythtv had a way to detect the file wasn't growing at all durin |
| [14:06:57] | pyrodex-work: | recording or should it. |
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| [15:24:17] | toeb: | ThisNewGuy: why don't you subscribe to the list if you want to read the messages? |
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| [15:26:34] | justinh: | because forums are better? :-P |
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| [15:28:07] | justinh: | it's much easier to ignore forum posts after you've signed up. less so for email lists :-) |
| [15:28:40] | toeb: | right i forgot: all emailclients are stupid and don't do proper threading... |
| [15:28:58] | justinh: | meh |
| [15:29:08] | justinh: | mailing lists are just as much of a pain as forums really |
| [15:29:27] | justinh: | still get stupid people fielding dumb questions, posting opinion as fact... |
| [15:29:40] | justinh: | a lot like IRC :-P |
| [15:30:11] | toeb: | yes but this is not the problem of the tool, its the people who ar stupid.. |
| [15:31:02] | toeb: | stupid internet, everyone is allowed to say what he thinks |
| [15:31:32] | justinh: | yup |
| [15:33:59] | justinh: | oh come on! how hard is it for a channell with no live output to play shows out on time? I'm padding recordings by 3 minutes & that still isn't enough to cope with 7+ minute overruns of previous shows |
| [15:34:06] | justinh: | stupid BBC |
| [15:34:26] | justinh: | sod it. that clinches the deal. no more radiotimes grabber |
| [15:34:44] | justinh: | EIT all the way now, assuming mythtv can adjust its start times according to broadcast changes |
| [15:40:58] | sphery: | ThisNewGuy: perhaps something like http://www.mmmmail.com/ |
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| [15:42:07] | justinh: | ARGGHHH. ****ing ubuntu |
| [15:43:15] | justinh: | so I'm trying to change mysql config stuff again, stop the service, go to restart the service & it's taking *ages* |
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| [15:49:24] | justinh: | nah. adjusted caching etc.. setting up a recording from the epg is still taking an age |
| [15:49:32] | justinh: | I hate that |
| [15:49:56] | justinh: | just confirm to me that it's got the request or something |
| [15:51:48] | sphery: | ThisNewGuy: FWIW, it seems that over the years, there have been many free-of-charge e-mail to RSS "services", and nearly all disappear before too long, so not sure how long mmmmail will be around |
| [15:52:09] | justinh: | 5447 shows in oldrecorded, 46 channels, 14 days' worth of EPG data.. and approx 30 seconds from pressing R on an EPG entry to the icon changing. grrr |
| [15:52:39] | justinh: | sphery: I think this is *buntu's mysql being a dork still |
| [15:56:03] | sphery: | justinh: ext4 file system containing your mysql data? |
| [15:56:15] | justinh: | hmmm I dunno |
| [15:56:24] | justinh: | yup |
| [15:56:38] | justinh: | oo, I have a spare partition not doing much |
| [15:56:54] | justinh: | yeah I read about ext4 making mysql run like a dog this morning |
| [15:57:02] | justinh: | how bad could it be, though.. I thought |
| [15:57:11] | sphery: | you likely have barriers enabled (they are by default in current ext4, and--at least on most distros--on current ext3) |
| [15:57:36] | justinh: | how can I tell that? |
| [15:57:51] | justinh: | it was always ext3 before & I don't remember it being this bad |
| [15:57:56] | sphery: | those result in applications having to wait until data is on the platter (not in HDD cache) when they ask to sync (something mysql does a lot) |
| [15:58:06] | justinh: | eew |
| [15:58:08] | sphery: | mount will tell you |
| [15:58:28] | justinh: | /dev/sda1 on / type ext4 (rw,errors=remount-ro) |
| [15:59:20] | sphery: | same thing with: cat /proc/mounts | grep sda1 |
| [15:59:44] | sphery: | I'm guessing that means they're enabled (since they default to on and it doesn't say barrier=0) |
| [15:59:47] | justinh: | no ouptut from that |
| [15:59:51] | justinh: | heh |
| [16:01:03] | sphery: | you can edit your fstab to add barrier=0 or, as you mentioned, move the data to another partition with barrier explicitly disabled, to test whether it makes a big difference |
| [16:01:36] | sphery: | but note that if you disable barriers, you're increasing the chance of file system corruption (regardless of the fact that you're using a journaling file system) |
| [16:02:06] | sphery: | since it means you will lose any data in the HDD's volatile cache on power loss or whatever |
| [16:02:47] | sphery: | which is why ext4 has set them up to be enabled by default (and why ext3 has recently been changed to enable them by default) |
| [16:02:55] | justinh: | hmmm |
| [16:03:08] | justinh: | I wonder what'd be a better filesystem for mysql then |
| [16:03:20] | sphery: | IMHO, it's worth testing to see if it makes a big difference (and I can almost guarantee it will), then deciding what to do |
| [16:03:31] | sphery: | actually, it's not a choice of file system thing |
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| [16:03:38] | sphery: | it's just a barriers or no barriers thing |
| [16:03:42] | justinh: | arghh |
| [16:03:57] | justinh: | I'm pretty sure this never used to take so long |
| [16:03:58] | sphery: | without barriers, there's higher chance of corruption, but things like mysql disk access become slow |
| [16:04:11] | sphery: | er, become slow with barriers |
| [16:04:29] | justinh: | my old 900Mhz athlon used to be better than this IIRC |
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| [16:04:39] | justinh: | with its old IDE disks |
| [16:04:51] | sphery: | the only way switching file systems will help with this particular issue is if you switch to a file system that doesn't enable (or doesn't support) barriers |
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| [16:05:00] | wagnerrp: | pyrodex-work: there is no intelligence in mythtv for a tuning adapter |
| [16:05:00] | sphery: | (meaning it's the same as using ext4 with barrier=0) |
| [16:05:08] | wagnerrp: | mythtv has no idea what they are or how to use them |
| [16:05:18] | justinh: | sphery: mind, I was prolly using ext3 with no barriers back in the day anyway |
| [16:05:21] | sphery: | justinh: yeah, platters are slow :) |
| [16:05:23] | wagnerrp: | presumably, the HDHR Prime will tell mythtv the tuning failed |
| [16:06:03] | justinh: | darnit.. no time for this now. or tonight. I'll prepare the spare partition tonight & get it ready for play time tomorrow |
| [16:06:16] | wagnerrp: | but if thats not the case, it will have to wait until one of a handful of "bad recording" mechanisms engages |
| [16:06:57] | sphery: | justinh: you can configure mysql such that barriers won't be as much of an issue, but it's not easy and may involve basically fitting the entire DB in RAM or some such |
| [16:08:07] | wagnerrp: | sphery: there are mechanisms to do that? |
| [16:08:31] | sphery: | to fit the db in RAM? |
| [16:08:36] | wagnerrp: | i mean you can switch to innodb, and crank up the memory buffer such that the whole thing is stored in RAM, but that would still only help for reads |
| [16:08:55] | wagnerrp: | writes would still need to be flushed to non-volatile medium |
| [16:08:59] | sphery: | right |
| [16:09:26] | sphery: | but according to some that's enough to hide the problem (or at least most of the effect of the problem) |
| [16:09:36] | wagnerrp: | and its the writes where barriers cause problems |
| [16:09:56] | sphery: | right |
| [16:10:05] | wagnerrp: | or is the write run asynchronously, and the table is unlocked for reading? |
| [16:10:07] | sphery: | but if you can't read until writes complete, that's the main problem |
| [16:10:12] | kisak: | I just bumped versions of mythtv 0.25 on gentoo from 0.25_pre20120103 to the current ebuild (0.25_pre20120223), it came online as expected except that the external channel changer script didn't work. I did some basic troubleshooting ... 6200ch works fine on the command line, and on the firewire connections after I added a trailing space to the external channel changer section in mythtv-setup |
| [16:10:41] | sphery: | and if you use a storage engine that supports row-level locking and have the db in memory, you can read even when its writing |
| [16:10:47] | wagnerrp: | kisak: odd, i wonder if were not adding a space before adding the channel... |
| [16:11:08] | sphery: | anyway, argue with the people who say barriers aren't a problem with properly configured mysql |
| [16:11:16] | sphery: | I have no horse in this race |
| [16:11:18] | kisak: | the trailing space trick did not work for my s-video connection to a PVR150 |
| [16:11:19] | sphery: | :D |
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| [16:12:58] | kisak: | I use a PVR150 as the auxillary capture method for channels that do not get a firewire lock |
| [16:13:16] | kisak: | and it no longer changes channels |
| [16:13:43] | sphery: | any errors in the logs? |
| [16:13:57] | pyrodex-work: | wagnerrp: interesting the HDHR never told myth it failed |
| [16:13:58] | sphery: | what's it say the external channel change script is returning? |
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| [16:14:52] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc | |
| [16:14:57] | pyrodex-work: | myth got as far as showing file size updates (1) and then nothing afterwards |
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| [16:19:05] | kisak: | it still captures the stream, but it's the wrong channel. here's the relevent moment in time from mythbackend.log http://pastebin.com/SJAmTJB8 |
| [16:20:24] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: a bit of a request since you were going to get nuvexport cleaned up for 0.25, could you start following the versioning scheme of the rest of myth? |
| [16:20:30] | kisak: | I need to increase the verbosity of something to give you what you really asked for, right sphery? |
| [16:21:05] | wagnerrp: | v0.<n>, fixes/0.<n>, v0.<n>pre |
| [16:21:27] | wagnerrp: | i have the ebuilds set up to operate off those values for the main repo |
| [16:21:39] | wagnerrp: | and it would be significantly simpler if i could continue that into the other repos |
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| [16:24:31] | kisak: | morning kormoc |
| [16:26:14] | kisak: | I'd like to bump http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10155 , I think it would be nice if content-length in bytes were a whole number as well |
| [16:31:43] | sphery: | kisak: I think default verbosity should be fine |
| [16:36:37] | kisak: | hmm, I'm going to power cycle that settopbox and reset the backend to rule a hardware fluke out as a factor |
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| [16:38:56] | kisak: | looks like I made an incorrect assumption in my troubleshooting, I have 2 settopboxes, the first (with the aux capture isn't changing channels by mythtv, the second (which is easier to observe) is working |
| [16:43:02] | kisak: | well, thank you for bearing with my mistake sphery |
| [16:43:45] | kisak: | it was a glitch in the hardware |
| [16:44:10] | sphery: | glad you figured it out |
| [16:44:15] | kisak: | so scratch the phantom trailing space fix |
| [16:44:56] | sphery: | now to figure out your other capture card, I guess |
| [16:46:07] | kisak: | everything looks like it's no worse than before the version bump |
| [16:47:15] | kisak: | livetv seems to crash the backend more sharply (or crisply perhaps), but that wasn't stable before |
| [16:49:32] | kisak: | what are the odds a new hardware gremlin would show itself in the same timeslot I set aside for a version bump ... |
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| [16:50:51] | wagnerrp: | depends, did you restart the machine in the process? |
| [16:50:58] | kisak: | no |
| [16:51:03] | wagnerrp: | not likely |
| [16:52:29] | kisak: | short of the kernel taking a dump or a harddrive dying, my backend doesn't get taken down |
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| [16:56:13] | wagnerrp: | ah, i reboot every time i update |
| [16:57:10] | kisak: | if I had a dedicated server for mythtv, I probably would too |
| [16:57:11] | wagnerrp: | necessity of how my updates are performed |
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| [17:04:14] | ** wagnerrp suggests sphery close #10325 by removing it from contrib ** | |
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| [17:09:34] | sphery: | hehe, perhaps I should |
| [17:09:51] | sphery: | only reason it's still there is because of who created it |
| [17:10:17] | sphery: | that said, i planned to accept that patch, as is--I actually requested that 2 1/2 years ago or so (when the "use hard links" patch was posted) |
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| [17:11:36] | sphery: | http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6726 + http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/388848#388848 (approaching 3 years ago, now) |
| [17:11:56] | sphery: | request for relative links is at bottom of that post |
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| [17:16:03] | wagnerrp: | xr is wanted it to stay in there? |
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| [17:38:25] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: that android thread on the ml... it finally took you that long to question why he wasn't using the API instead? :) |
| [17:39:20] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: good idea on the versioning |
| [17:42:09] | AndyCap: | Has this made the rounds here? http://www.publicknowledge.org/cable-encryption |
| [17:44:08] | wagnerrp: | i saw something about that a couple weeks back |
| [17:44:21] | wagnerrp: | but i didnt understand the implications of it, as they already encrypt everything |
| [17:44:47] | wagnerrp: | the only thing typically not encrypted is the basic tier, which are local broadcast channels |
| [17:44:59] | wagnerrp: | they encrypt that, you switch to using an antenna |
| [17:45:13] | AndyCap: | if you can? |
| [17:45:28] | wagnerrp: | still though, i didnt realize they were talking about removing the 'must carry' rules |
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| [17:46:17] | atpa8a: | hello |
| [17:46:24] | atpa8a: | does mythtv backend need X server? |
| [17:46:40] | wagnerrp: | to run? no |
| [17:46:48] | atpa8a: | hmm |
| [17:46:56] | wagnerrp: | however you need at least the X libs to run mythtv-setup to configure it |
| [17:47:09] | wagnerrp: | plus theyre required to compile it in the first place |
| [17:47:19] | sphery: | atpa8a: MythTV (frontend/backend/...) needs Qt, and Qt needs to be built with X libs |
| [17:48:16] | atpa8a: | i'm trying to understand if i can run the backend in a VM |
| [17:48:30] | atpa8a: | the backend provides upnp/dlna, doesn't it? |
| [17:48:32] | wagnerrp: | you can, but you shouldnt |
| [17:48:56] | atpa8a: | wagnerrp: why not? |
| [17:48:58] | kisak: | I run my backend headless, and when I need to mythtv-setup, I ssh -Y into the backend |
| [17:49:13] | wagnerrp: | atpa8a: because it doesnt get you anything |
| [17:49:44] | atpa8a: | wagnerrp: i've a pretty strong server that's [almost] always on |
| [17:49:45] | wagnerrp: | the only reason to use a VM is because youre doing things you think can crash the kernel (which mythtv doesnt), or for security reasons |
| [17:49:57] | wagnerrp: | so run it on that pretty strong server thats always on |
| [17:50:06] | wagnerrp: | leave the VM bit out of it |
| [17:50:14] | atpa8a: | oh, but i need other services :) |
| [17:50:26] | wagnerrp: | so? |
| [17:50:44] | wagnerrp: | virtual machines are not some magical force that somehow allows processors to multitask |
| [17:50:46] | atpa8a: | it runs 2 blogs in a VM, git in a VM, jira and hudson in a VM |
| [17:50:54] | wagnerrp: | you can actually run more than one service on a system |
| [17:51:33] | atpa8a: | i like the separation – i don't need to risk the stability of the system if i want to upgrade wordpress |
| [17:52:07] | wagnerrp: | wordpress is just a web application, it cant harm the stability of the system |
| [17:52:08] | atpa8a: | installing frontend/backend on an oldish laptop for now... |
| [17:52:19] | atpa8a: | wagnerrp: wordpress was just an example |
| [17:52:52] | wagnerrp: | the worst it can do is require newer versions of certain interpreter modules, that are disruptive to other web applications running on the same server |
| [17:53:08] | wagnerrp: | but theres no reason you cant install multiple instances of apache on a single system |
| [17:53:13] | atpa8a: | i like that i can change stuff in a vm and still my system will be operational |
| [17:53:23] | wagnerrp: | or run separate instances in a chroot for better isolation |
| [17:53:58] | wagnerrp: | or even run something like a vserver designed for security, without the overhead of a full virtual machine |
| [17:53:59] | atpa8a: | well... we'll see |
| [17:54:13] | Beirdo: | ummm |
| [17:54:17] | atpa8a: | oh, mine aren't full virt |
| [17:54:25] | Beirdo: | linux-vservers have MORE overhead than xen |
| [17:54:29] | atpa8a: | they are xen paravirt rather |
| [17:54:30] | Beirdo: | not less |
| [17:54:40] | Beirdo: | having done both |
| [17:54:42] | wagnerrp: | well sure... because vservers are an old, poor implementation |
| [17:54:48] | wagnerrp: | bad example... :) |
| [17:55:05] | wagnerrp: | whats the new thing thats supposed to be integrated into the linux kernel? |
| [17:55:11] | Beirdo: | kvm |
| [17:55:16] | atpa8a: | that's why i'm interested if it's ok to run a backend in a VM :) |
| [17:55:21] | Beirdo: | but it's hardware virt only |
| [17:55:25] | ** sphery thinks that people think VMs are a good thing because too many people think Windows is how computers work ** | |
| [17:55:38] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: no, LXC |
| [17:56:07] | Beirdo: | running the backend in a VM is not a very good plan, you will run into PCI routing issues at a minimum |
| [17:56:08] | atpa8a: | sphery: how does windows get into that picture :P |
| [17:56:38] | atpa8a: | Beirdo: i want to start with exploring upnp/dlna features, no cards yet |
| [17:56:57] | wagnerrp: | mythtv has a rather limited UPNP server at the moment |
| [17:56:58] | sphery: | because windows doesn't do proper separation of application-level and kernel-level things, so people have to add separation on top of windows, so they do that using VMs |
| [17:57:15] | wagnerrp: | it generally works, but it has no configurability |
| [17:57:25] | wagnerrp: | there is only limited metadata support for content |
| [17:57:27] | kisak: | atpa8a: the answer you were given first was that you can run mythbackend in a virtual machine, but it's not recommended ... basicly we're not responsible for quirks that crop up because the backend is being starved |
| [17:57:33] | sphery: | then they say, "wow, that worked, and now MS Word doesn't crash my computer and take down my critical services, so I'll do the same everywhere" |
| [17:57:51] | wagnerrp: | and there is no transcoding support, so unless your device can handle the content as it exists on disk, it wont work |
| [17:57:58] | Beirdo: | there are lots of good reasons for using VMs |
| [17:58:06] | sphery: | (even on systems that already properly separate out application mode (=can't crash the system) and kernel mode (=can bring the system down hard)) |
| [17:58:14] | Beirdo: | but at home, they are limited in usefulness |
| [17:58:20] | wagnerrp: | yes, as a guaranteed measure of security |
| [17:58:25] | Beirdo: | that said, the windows build slave is in a vm ;) |
| [17:58:44] | wagnerrp: | for when you expect one VM may get compromised, but you want to maintain security for the rest of the system |
| [17:59:08] | wagnerrp: | the ability to run separate kernels (or OSs) is an edge case that is only valid in certain circumstances |
| [17:59:21] | sphery: | atpa8a: also note that mythtv doesn't support tuner-less operation |
| [17:59:23] | atpa8a: | i like a VM per service... a server per service really, but with limited resources a VM will do |
| [17:59:32] | wagnerrp: | where as most circumstances, the better option is to use software native to a single OS |
| [17:59:43] | atpa8a: | oh? i need a tuner card? |
| [17:59:50] | sphery: | where "tunerless" really means "operation without some input capable of recording video" |
| [17:59:51] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [17:59:54] | Beirdo: | well, I should be off to work |
| [17:59:56] | kisak: | Beirdo: does mythtv have a build server group? |
| [18:00:17] | atpa8a: | hmm |
| [18:00:19] | wagnerrp: | you can technically fake it, with a dummy tuner card pointed to an mpeg file, and a dummy channel |
| [18:00:30] | wagnerrp: | but it is not designed to behave that way |
| [18:00:40] | atpa8a: | well let's see how it runs on a laptop (mythbuntu) |
| [18:00:42] | wagnerrp: | and you are going without the core purpose of mythtv |
| [18:00:49] | wagnerrp: | kisak: define 'group' |
| [18:00:51] | sphery: | and, really, mythtv may not be the best choice of media center if you don't plan to do tv |
| [18:01:28] | atpa8a: | sphery: i'd love to :) if mythtv supported cablecards |
| [18:02:15] | sphery: | and by "don't plan to do tv" I mean "don't plan to record TV" |
| [18:02:15] | atpa8a: | th OTA channels are just not enough |
| [18:02:15] | sphery: | as TV DVDs or BluRays can be done by other media centers |
| [18:02:15] | AndyCap: | atpa8a: wouldn't be a problem if cablecards supported linux. :P |
| [18:02:15] | wagnerrp: | mythtv does support cablecard tuners |
| [18:02:15] | sphery: | mythtv can't support cablecard |
| [18:02:15] | wagnerrp: | we have had support for the HDHomeRun Primes for nearly two years now |
| [18:02:15] | sphery: | mythtv can use capture devices that support cablecard |
| [18:02:22] | kisak: | wagnerrp: well, in this case, multiple environments (the usual suspects 32bit/64bit linux and you mentioned windows) |
| [18:02:26] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable |
| [18:02:33] | sphery: | note, though, that you only get the "copy freely" stuff |
| [18:02:37] | wagnerrp: | and there is support for the InfiniTV in 0.25 |
| [18:02:42] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_ . . . leCard_Tuner |
| [18:02:44] | atpa8a: | right :) |
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| [18:03:06] | atpa8a: | wagnerrp was kind enough to clear this situation a couple of weeks back for me |
| [18:03:09] | wagnerrp: | atpa8a: and if you have comcast or verizon, 'copy freely' content is nearly all of the channels |
| [18:03:28] | atpa8a: | i've cablevision |
| [18:03:33] | wagnerrp: | kisak: mythtv has several machines running buildbots |
| [18:03:50] | wagnerrp: | http://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/waterfall |
| [18:04:04] | atpa8a: | was looking into that very expensive cablecard card... but decided against it for the reason of 'copy freely' |
| [18:04:07] | wagnerrp: | but there is no "group" to join for using them |
| [18:04:19] | atpa8a: | infiniti or what was the name?.. |
| [18:04:27] | wagnerrp: | infinitv |
| [18:04:33] | wagnerrp: | 4 tuners, like $250 |
| [18:04:34] | sphery: | 02.28 13:02:37 <+wagnerrp> and there is support for the InfiniTV in 0.25 |
| [18:04:38] | atpa8a: | yup |
| [18:04:44] | kisak: | wagnerrp: ah ha, interesting |
| [18:04:58] | atpa8a: | but still only for 'copy freely' |
| [18:05:03] | wagnerrp: | looks like $200 on newegg |
| [18:05:22] | wagnerrp: | same for the 3-tuner Prime |
| [18:05:47] | wagnerrp: | $140 for the DCR-2650, surprisingly that hasnt dropped in price since release |
| [18:05:53] | atpa8a: | if i cannot record sporting events... that $200 is wasted as i have to keep cable |
| [18:06:08] | atpa8a: | cable DVR rather |
| [18:06:22] | wagnerrp: | you dont need to keep a cable dvr, only a cable box |
| [18:06:24] | atpa8a: | infinitv works with Media Center |
| [18:06:30] | wagnerrp: | assuming those channels are not copy freely |
| [18:06:49] | atpa8a: | how do you mean? |
| [18:06:59] | atpa8a: | use firewire? |
| [18:07:14] | wagnerrp: | thats because Microsoft spent a big chunk of money implementing a protected video path throughout Windows, so they could pass Cable Labs' licensing requirements |
| [18:07:34] | wagnerrp: | firewire falls under the same 'copy freely' restriction, as we are not licensed to implement 5c communication |
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| [18:07:44] | wagnerrp: | but you can use an analog capture card to record off the cable box |
| [18:07:57] | wagnerrp: | use IR or firewire to tune the cable box |
| [18:08:21] | wagnerrp: | and then an MPEG encoder or HDPVR to capture and compress the output for storage in mythtv |
| [18:08:33] | atpa8a: | yeah... i saw the options... gotta put those to the test |
| [18:08:49] | atpa8a: | that's why i'm trying to employ that oldish laptop |
| [18:09:00] | atpa8a: | it's turion64 tho, should be ok |
| [18:09:48] | atpa8a: | right now i'm using mediatomb for upnp/dlna |
| [18:09:54] | atpa8a: | from inside a VM :) |
| [18:10:08] | wagnerrp: | mediatomb is a considerably more capable UPNP server than mythtv |
| [18:11:10] | atpa8a: | yeah |
| [18:11:13] | atpa8a: | can't complain |
| [18:11:26] | atpa8a: | let's see what mythtv can do :) |
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| [18:48:25] | Beirdo: | yay. |
| [18:49:06] | Beirdo: | power went off at work over night... and my workstation is NOT happy with me. I'm resorting to the new box that I'm not completely done setting up |
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| [19:45:10] | wagnerrp: | !url — list |
| [19:45:10] | MythLogBot: | analoghw currentrelease deleteme(disabled) devrelease digitalhw down faq fixesrelease google linuxtv lmgtfy log logs overscan pastebin recordingcable theming tuners upnp vdpau wiki |
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| [19:46:53] | justinh: | mediatomb is only capable, it seems, because it's coded for just about every part of the 'U' in the Upnp spec – i.e. you configure it to talk to whatever device is going to be pointing at it :-\ |
| [19:47:20] | justinh: | lord help you if you have different devices AFAICT |
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| [19:48:08] | wagnerrp: | yeah, but the difference is that it _can_ be coded, using a simple configuration syntax |
| [19:48:50] | wagnerrp: | while mythtv requires digging into the code, and depending on the content, a _lot_ of work implementing on-the-fly transcoding |
| [19:49:23] | wagnerrp: | although now, it should be more a case of just a bit of glue to interface with capt'm's HLS code |
| [19:51:22] | justinh: | DLNA/UPNP need to be stopped |
| [19:51:46] | justinh: | if there are to be any more 'standards' the spec MUST be adhered to, or you can't use the name |
| [19:52:12] | justinh: | imagine if USB were as broken as DLNA |
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| [19:52:58] | wagnerrp: | well DLNA requires a license and validation procedure that is supposed to make DLNA devices universally compatible |
| [19:53:15] | wagnerrp: | i think some blend of MPEG2 support is a required ability |
| [19:53:55] | justinh: | if it really was any good then all the OSS servers wouldn't need workarounds for all the different clients |
| [19:54:17] | justinh: | and I can't see a flea powered NAS box doing any transcoding ;) |
| [19:54:39] | wagnerrp: | DLNA requires a large chunk of change to even see the spec |
| [19:55:02] | justinh: | anyway.. back to my mysql slowness woes.. I think I'm going to have to stick with it the way it is for now (sucky) |
| [19:55:04] | wagnerrp: | and there are likely more devices that only claim UPNP, rather than DLNA |
| [19:55:53] | justinh: | yeah you're likely right about that |
| [19:56:25] | sphery: | justinh: did you try disabling barriers? 1min test (assuming you have to reboot--or shorter if not) and you'll know for sure what's causing it, then be able to go out and research barrier and decide whether running MySQL with the same potential for loss as you had for the last 5+ years is too dangerous for future you |
| [19:56:55] | justinh: | sphery: backend is *way* too busy right now |
| [19:57:26] | sphery: | ah, so maybe "for now" at least until you've got a break in recordings |
| [19:57:38] | justinh: | yup |
| [19:58:04] | justinh: | not so much recordings. frontend use |
| [19:58:36] | justinh: | I do a daily DB backup anyway, so if I was to 'lose' the db, no big deal really |
| [19:59:01] | justinh: | and the last catastrophe I had I was able to get *everything* back using bits of the corrupted DB |
| [19:59:30] | justinh: | it's pretty unlikely I'd lose more than one filesystem at the same time |
| [20:00:01] | justinh: | probably time I started pushing my db backup to rsync.net or something |
| [20:00:34] | justinh: | sphery: actually, that last HDD failure was the spindle the DB was on, and it fair got whacked |
| [20:00:54] | sphery: | wow, that's not good |
| [20:01:10] | justinh: | so I'm figuring it likely didn't have barriers on |
| [20:01:49] | justinh: | sphery: yeah but, I recovered what I could from the broken fs, then merged in the last backup :-) |
| [20:02:08] | justinh: | lost nothing, being lucky which tables were trashed beyond recognition |
| [20:02:57] | justinh: | I think at some point I might even benefit from a fresh database |
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| [20:03:10] | justinh: | this one is getting on for 6 years old now if not more |
| [20:03:48] | justinh: | should be fairly easy to export my recordings & video metadata to a format I can work with |
| [20:04:48] | justinh: | that is if there's not already a nice script on the wiki somewhere |
| [20:05:26] | sphery: | other than a partial schema restore, there's no supported way of putting recordings back in Watch Recordings |
| [20:05:52] | justinh: | really? |
| [20:06:01] | justinh: | oh *supported* ;-) |
| [20:06:05] | sphery: | the approved solution is to put them in "MythVideo" videos (where you put all to-be-archived or not-from-recording videos) |
| [20:06:18] | sphery: | and the partial schema restore is really a huge waste of time |
| [20:06:24] | sphery: | there's absolutely no benefit to it |
| [20:06:25] | justinh: | I think I wouldn't be too bothered about chanids not lining up |
| [20:06:33] | sphery: | since mythtv does a great job of cleaning up garbage in the DB for you |
| [20:07:14] | justinh: | besides the chanids what other gotchas would there be? |
| [20:07:46] | sphery: | all the same gotchas that lead to our removing the script that shoved stuff into recorded |
| [20:07:50] | wagnerrp: | well, garbage that has any real affect, anyway |
| [20:07:54] | justinh: | heh |
| [20:08:04] | sphery: | if you put in the wrong data, mythtv will break |
| [20:08:24] | sphery: | and how it breaks differs based on which data is wrong |
| [20:08:30] | sphery: | and even which version of mythtv you're using |
| [20:08:31] | justinh: | well aware of that, and I know this channel's policy on not supporting users' own hacks |
| [20:08:48] | sphery: | anyway, IMHO, you'll get no benefit out of a new db |
| [20:09:56] | sphery: | whether you put the recordings in watch recordings or mythvideo, makes no difference... it just won't help because we clean up old garbage nicely |
| [20:10:30] | ThisNewGuy: | sphery: thanks – I ended up using: http://emails2rss.appspot.com/ |
| [20:10:34] | ** Beirdo pounds on his workstation a bit more ** | |
| [20:10:49] | justinh: | sphery: hmmm. oh well |
| [20:10:56] | Beirdo: | seems Deb5->deb6 upgrade is not nearly as clean as ubuntu upgrades |
| [20:11:02] | justinh: | oo this old partition is my old /myth media storage |
| [20:11:15] | justinh: | prolly some free space on there I can use for a new fs |
| [20:11:20] | Beirdo: | they upgrade dpkg before tar... then use a commandline option the old tar doesn'e have |
| [20:11:34] | ThisNewGuy: | Can anyone help me rebuild my seek table for a file I transcoded by myself? I get errors when I run mythcommflag --rebuild (this is from master) |
| [20:11:53] | Beirdo: | so I had to use ar to pull apart the new tar deb file to overwrite /bin/tar so I could dpkg -i tar |
| [20:12:09] | wagnerrp: | the seektable should be rebuilt automatically when you run mythtranscode |
| [20:12:14] | ThisNewGuy: | http://pastebin.com/DnerjjR3 |
| [20:12:17] | wagnerrp: | unless this is something you transcoded independently |
| [20:12:26] | wagnerrp: | in which case we would need to see how you transcoded it |
| [20:13:10] | wagnerrp: | why is mythcommflag opening a UI? |
| [20:13:30] | dekarl: | justinh: you could do something crazy and try http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Optimizing_Perform . . . abase_Tweaks the mysqltuner.pl part might be useful |
| [20:14:01] | ThisNewGuy: | wagnerrp – it was something I transcoded myself: /usr/local/bin/mythffmpeg -y -i "%s" -ac 2 -vf "scale=640:360" -f avi -vcodec libxvid -vtag XVID -qmin 4 -qmax 4 -acodec libmp3lame -ab 64k "%s" |
| [20:14:01] | dekarl: | ThisNewGuy: seen my notes wrt inetref propagation yesterday? |
| [20:14:08] | justinh: | dekarl: tried. no use at all |
| [20:14:13] | ThisNewGuy: | dekarl – I missed it – lemme search |
| [20:14:23] | sphery: | I still think if he tries running with the mysql data on a file system that's not enforcing barriers, he'll see "oh, it's the same performance I'm used to" (=he hasn't been using barriers before) |
| [20:14:50] | wagnerrp: | ThisNewGuy: its possible we simply dont do seektables for AVIs |
| [20:14:59] | wagnerrp: | and in any case, it would really be best you didnt use AVIs anyway |
| [20:15:02] | dekarl: | justinh: doh, I was hoping it ws useful |
| [20:15:06] | sphery: | +1 |
| [20:15:07] | justinh: | I think if it speeds stuff up that much I'll run the risk of running without barriers |
| [20:15:18] | wagnerrp: | considering the AVI format does not support Xvid, or variable bitrate mp3 |
| [20:15:19] | justinh: | because with barriers it really sucks |
| [20:15:24] | sphery: | You can't spell evil with AVI |
| [20:15:33] | ThisNewGuy: | dekarl – thanks – I'll get latest and see if it fixes it |
| [20:15:35] | sphery: | er, without |
| [20:15:35] | dekarl: | and +1 for filesystems with interesting implementations of barriers :D |
| [20:15:47] | wagnerrp: | sphery: sure you can |
| [20:16:58] | ThisNewGuy: | wagnerrp/sphery – sounds like I'm doing something dumb – is it just a simple change of -f avi to -f mpg? |
| [20:17:44] | wagnerrp: | are you actually having problems with seeking without the seektable? |
| [20:19:03] | ThisNewGuy: | it was working well enough (I could seek but the preview images were always grey) but then my wife wanted me to cut out commercials (this is my first time using the cutlist editor) and the error I got was "no seektable" |
| [20:19:48] | sphery: | ah, yeah, but I don't think mythtranscode will work well (if at all) now that it's a "non-recording" file |
| [20:20:07] | ThisNewGuy: | I can accept that – what about for future transcodes? |
| [20:20:11] | sphery: | we don't let you edit without a seek table |
| [20:20:38] | sphery: | but for non-recording video, you probably don't want to, so you'll want to edit with avidemux2 or something |
| [20:21:56] | justinh: | ah bum. still can't resize xfs huh? lol |
| [20:21:59] | sphery: | IMHO, for future, if you edit a recording and don't use mythtranscode to do the transcoding (i.e. getting MPEG-2 for lossless transcode of MPEG-2 or NUV with MPEG-4/RTJPEG), your best bet is to put the transcoded file in MythVideo |
| [20:23:19] | sphery: | since we have lots of assumptions that recordings look like recordings scattered throughout the code |
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| [20:28:00] | justinh: | jees. *how* much HDD space am I not using these days anyway? :-O |
| [20:28:54] | justinh: | found another free 880GB partition here. lol |
| [20:29:01] | dekarl: | hmm how far has native zfs come on linux? |
| [20:31:30] | wagnerrp: | http://zfsonlinux.com |
| [20:32:25] | justinh: | mmmm noodles |
| [20:33:24] | dekarl: | I've seen that, but can I install a fresh Mythbuntu on it anytime soon? (soon as in 2012/2013 time frame) |
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| [20:33:36] | wagnerrp: | doubtful |
| [20:33:54] | justinh: | not unless its licensing terms change any time soon |
| [20:34:01] | wagnerrp: | you could rig up your own initrd to boot through, but i doubt any distro would have it built into its installer |
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| [20:34:42] | ThisNewGuy: | sphery: so it sounds like the answer is use mythtranscode and don't do it myself – I'm trying to remember why I didn't like mythtranscode – I think the audio got out of sync but I'll try again and post if I have issues |
| [20:35:47] | justinh: | winners don't use AVI ;-) |
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| [20:37:45] | sphery: | ThisNewGuy: actually, IMHO, the answer is, "Never transcode recordings you plan to watch and delete. If you plan to archive an MPEG-2 recording, you can use mythtranscode's lossless transcode to cut out commercials/extra. If you do any other transcoding, don't use mythtranscode, but when done transcoding, put the non-recorded video into MythVideo." |
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| [20:38:53] | dekarl: | ThisNewGuy: do not use AVI as a container if you can avoid it. Use something that works instead like mkv or maybe even mp4 ;) |
| [20:38:58] | sphery: | "If you do any other transcoding" would allow for transcoding for those people who need to transcode for device compatibility, because they want to use a limited device to play back content (i.e. phone, tablet, ...) |
| [20:39:07] | dekarl: | (I prefer TS, YMMV) |
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| [20:46:49] | ThisNewGuy: | sphery/dekarl this is for kids shows that we want to keep long term but don't want to take up much space – my goal is to amass a library of the crap my kids like but not fill up my hard drive |
| [20:47:23] | sphery: | ThisNewGuy: for that, the perfect location is Watch Videos |
| [20:47:35] | sphery: | because a) you can consolidate recorded and non-recorded kids stuff |
| [20:47:42] | sphery: | b) you can use file names you want |
| [20:48:10] | sphery: | c) you can organize how you want--even to the point of keeping it in a nice hierarchy where kids stuff is all together under "Kid's Stuff" |
| [20:48:36] | dekarl: | ThisNewGuy: doesn't make AVI any better :D its just not well designed for stuff like VBR audio streams |
| [20:48:42] | sphery: | d) it has great support for metadata--including fan art and banners and such |
| [20:48:51] | sphery: | e) it's meant for long term storage |
| [20:49:02] | ThisNewGuy: | k – but it sounds like if we want to occasionally remove commercials I need to transcode with mythtranscode (I'm not tied to avi or anything for that matter – just want it to work) |
| [20:49:13] | sphery: | f) you won't see Bob the Builder and Dora the Explorer listed in Watch Recordings every time you go in there |
| [20:49:41] | sphery: | g) you don't have to constantly use MENU|Change Group Filter to hide the stuff you don't want to see when you actually want to watch one of the non-kids shows |
| [20:49:54] | sphery: | I could go on, but that's probably too much, anyway :) |
| [20:50:04] | ThisNewGuy: | :-) I get it |
| [20:50:50] | dekarl: | might make sense to transcode to H.264/AAC in MP4 in whatever that Tablet you take with you on long car rides likes ;) |
| [20:50:59] | justinh: | heh. my little lad only likes the titles anyway :D |
| [20:51:00] | sphery: | Key things you must know: If you "Enable file browse mode", you get terrible performance because MythTV scans all file systems every time you enter mythvideo (no one in the world should enable that) |
| [20:51:32] | sphery: | and If you "Disable flat view", you can actually see the hierarchy you set up using directories within your video directories |
| [20:52:22] | sphery: | and--most importantly--"file browse mode" and "flat view" are separately enabled/disabled on each of the 3 "Views" in Watch Videos (i.e. Gallery, List, Browse view--where Browse view has nothing to do with "file browse mode") |
| [20:52:40] | justinh: | just aswell he only likes the intro title sequences & songs.. the recordings are always cut short :-/ |
| [20:54:08] | dekarl: | btw, does anybody know a good dr snuggles set? I bought the DVD lately and its a crap transfer from the original broadcast tapes instead of the original 16mm film |
| [20:54:52] | justinh: | ugh |
| [20:55:42] | ThisNewGuy: | sphery / dekarl – thanks! |
| [20:59:24] | justinh: | well, here goes nothing. Wiping the old xfs partition & making it ext3 for giggles |
| [21:00:01] | justinh: | hmmm ideally mysql should be stopped before rsyncing /var/mysql I'm supposing |
| [21:00:29] | sphery: | make sure you verify barriers are disabled on ext3, too |
| [21:00:46] | justinh: | yup |
| [21:00:54] | sphery: | though really, ext3 vs ext4 makes little difference |
| [21:01:17] | sphery: | just have to explicitly specify barrier=0 on the mount to make sure it's off for the test |
| [21:01:26] | justinh: | for the amount of time it'll take to switch over I'm willing to try both |
| [21:02:07] | ThisNewGuy: | Are there any advantages to recording at low quality (this is for an HDPVR) as opposed to recording at normal quality and then using myth to transcode to low quality? |
| [21:02:30] | justinh: | gah. The Cube is scheduled to record at 11.30pm |
| [21:02:42] | justinh: | as for Shameless.. WHY are we still recording that crap? |
| [21:03:12] | justinh: | we need a proper DVR. One with taste in programs |
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| [21:03:42] | justinh: | "Big Fat Gypsy Weddings" ? ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH |
| [21:03:55] | justinh: | my wife must never be allowed to have another baby |
| [21:05:30] | dekarl: | ThisNewGuy: realtime encoders can't meet the same quality as dual pass x264 because the latter can work with a bit-budget that is spent where it makes the most difference |
| [21:06:09] | ThisNewGuy: | k – thanks! |
| [21:09:42] | wagnerrp: | yeah, but dual pass x264 is largely a waste unless youre trying to hit an exact file size |
| [21:11:04] | ThisNewGuy: | any advice on how to configure bitrate /maximum quality / minimum quality to get low quality but watchable for a kids show? |
| [21:13:00] | dekarl: | wagnerrp: hmm, thats true, too. |
| [21:14:51] | dekarl: | ThisNewGuy: I'd try something like http://www.google.de/search?q=x264+ipad+preset and see how it goes |
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| [21:40:03] | justinh: | so that's mysql dir rsynced. with mysql still alive. that might be interesting |
| [21:40:42] | wagnerrp: | heh... yeah, i wouldnt trust that |
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| [22:58:12] | mcneill: | I am trying to change my menu theme and cannot find any documentation on where this is set. Is it part of individual themes or is it somewhere else? |
| [22:58:17] | mcneill is now known as gratuit | |
| [22:58:23] | gratuit: | I am trying to change my menu theme and cannot find any documentation on where this is set. Is it part of individual themes or is it somewhere else? |
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| [23:04:39] | sphery: | gratuit: mythfrontend, Utilities/Setup|Setup|Appearance... I think it's the first screen |
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| [23:09:01] | jams: | sphery- Can we get away with change the name of the hardwareprofile fields before .25 is out |
| [23:09:18] | sphery: | are they in the UI? |
| [23:09:29] | jams: | not that i'm aware of |
| [23:09:51] | sphery: | so it's just data... if so, I think that would be fine |
| [23:09:56] | jams: | just want to prepend "HOST" to the field names |
| [23:10:31] | jams: | so that we know they are host specific and should not be copied when syncing up settings |
| [23:11:54] | wagnerrp: | jams: you mean to differentiate between stuff tied to the global UUID, and the local system UUID? |
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| [23:14:04] | jams: | i mean so that when host A settings are copied/cloned to host B (via a mythutils patch I have) those will not get copied over |
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| [23:35:56] | Hydr0p0nX: | k, so my dvb interface is kind of working |
| [23:36:02] | Hydr0p0nX: | some channels crash the frontend |
| [23:36:13] | Hydr0p0nX: | with a jump program error |
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