Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, February 27th, 2012, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:28]

k-man:

jya, i believe brew has a pre compiled version of QT that can be downloaded and isntalled, but it is not built with --with-qt3support (or whatever that option is) so to work with mythtv you have to build qt yourself currently.

[00:01:03]

k-man:

jya, also, the resulting binary that my script builds has a problem – somehow the graphics rendering is ultra slow

[00:01:04]

jya:

as I said, I now compile myth against the Qt SDK… I can compile from 0 in less than 5 minutes now

[00:01:10]

k-man:

i've not been able to solve that

[00:01:20]

k-man:

wow, thats good

[00:01:21]

jya:

I've built on 64 bits and it's very fast..

[00:01:35]

jya:

do you want to try the image generated? tell me if it's any better?

[00:01:55]

jya:

the 64bits build is significantly faster, the main menu appears almost instantly here

[00:01:55]

k-man:

jya, i only suggest homebrew as i believe it could simplify the build script – but i've not got the skills to get it there by myself

[00:02:12]

k-man:

jya, i'd love to try your image – ill have to test it tonight though

[00:02:24]

k-man:

at work currently

[00:02:40]

jya:

to be honest, I'm not that keen on learning yet another build system.. I've struggled enough understanding the existing one to get it where I wanted

[00:02:57]

jya:

I will upload it to me site a bit later...

[00:03:10]

jya:

it takes about 30 minutes to uplaod it

[00:03:13]

k-man:

jya, understood compleetly

[00:03:29]

jya:

but thanks for the offer, I'm happy to have a look at some stage

[00:03:37]

k-man:

jya, but may i humbly ask you to have a quick look, just to get your feedback?

[00:03:41]

k-man:

ok

[00:04:29]

k-man:

also, there are a few limitations currently in brew that complicate building slightly. i've attempted to make it as simple as possible though

[00:06:36]

k-man:

https://github.com/jasonblewis/homebrew/blob/ . . . la/mythtv.rb

[00:07:33]

k-man:

the nice thing about brew is that if there is a formula already for a dependency, it just fetches and builds it automaticaly

[00:07:52]

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[00:07:54]

drac_boy:

hi

[00:07:59]

k-man:

hi drac_boy

[00:08:18]

drac_boy:

hi k-man

[00:08:24]

drac_boy:

what doing?

[00:08:38]

k-man:

not a lot

[00:09:14]

drac_boy:

same here, things becoming a bit slower now

[00:09:19]

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[00:09:37]

drac_boy:

although I do have the cloth washer going so I'll have to eventually empty out the load and hang everything to dry :-)

[00:10:18]

drac_boy:

anything you want talk about or not really?

[00:10:31]

k-man:

what like therapy?

[00:10:50]

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[00:11:51]

drac_boy:

heh no, just any topic even if its not related to tv watching ;-)

[00:14:58]

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[00:15:19]

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[00:24:54]

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[00:35:54]

jya:

k-man: that's all is required to build myth with homebrew ?

[00:35:58]

jya:

waooo

[00:40:03]

k-man:

jya, well – more or less

[00:40:40]

k-man:

jya, the main tricks are the following: brew does not handle perl or python dependencies, so you have to test for them and tell the user how to install them

[00:41:07]

k-man:

they should use cpan and err.. whatever the pythong thing is to install those

[00:41:53]

jya:

easy_install does all the python stuff

[00:41:54]

k-man:

also, with brew you can say "brew install --HEAD mythtv" to get it to checkout from git BUT it will also then build all depends from their HEAD too. which is not desireable

[00:42:36]

jya:

does it actuall produce a mac bundle?

[00:42:37]

k-man:

so, to work aroudn that, you have to first install the fixes branch of mythtv then "brew install --HEAD --ignore-depends mythtv"

[00:42:47]

k-man:

jya, no

[00:42:54]

k-man:

thats a good point and that may be an issue

[00:42:55]

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[00:42:55]

jya:

I honneslty can't see how it would do that

[00:43:06]

jya:

there's a "LOT MORE" to do to get to that point

[00:43:49]

k-man:

yes, and i believe the brew people consider that to be beyond the scope of brew, however the emacs formula does build a bundle

[00:43:54]

k-man:

so it can be done – not sure how though

[00:44:58]

jya:

IMHO, on a mac, this is compulsory

[00:45:08]

jya:

I don't want to have to start myth from a command line

[00:45:18]

k-man:

jya, fair enough

[00:45:39]

k-man:

what are the steps required to build a package?

[00:45:40]

jya:

compiling myth itself hasn't been the issue so far.. it's been Qt and creating the bundle

[00:45:43]

k-man:

i can give that a go

[00:45:50]

jya:

now Ive removed the need to compile Qt

[00:46:06]

k-man:

jya, thats a great step formward i must admit

[00:46:26]

k-man:

jya, the whole reason i started writing the brew formula was that I just could not get qt to compile at the time

[00:47:23]

jya:

yeah.. what a pain that stuff is

[00:47:56]

k-man:

jya, which version of qt are you currently building against?

[00:48:07]

jya:

4.8.. this is required to build on lion

[00:48:13]

k-man:

ah ok

[00:48:25]

jya:

4.7 if you don't want to build on lion

[00:48:28]

k-man:

i am using that too but I just cannot work out why it runs so slowly for me

[00:48:33]

jya:

4.7 supports >= 10.4

[00:48:37]

jya:

4.8 >= 10.5

[00:48:41]

k-man:

i see

[00:51:36]

k-man:

jya, check out https://github.com/jasonblewis/homebrew/blob/ . . . ula/emacs.rb there might be a few clues on building packages in there. specificaly line 77

[00:52:17]

jya:

it's all happening line 52

[00:52:51]

jya:

problem is that myth relies on a dozen external libraries that need to be included, a share folder with all the theme and resources etc...

[00:55:22]

k-man:

yeah

[00:58:02]

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[00:58:17]

k-man:

jya, which compiler do you build with? llvm or clang?

[01:02:22]

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[01:03:14]

Hydr0p0nX:

is there a copy of nuvexport that works with .24.1 ?

[01:03:37]

wagnerrp:

presumably the one on github does

[01:06:09]

Hydr0p0nX:

i'm not seeing one other than in master and it shows all of the options as disabled

[01:07:53]

wagnerrp:

https://github.com/MythTV/nuvexport/tree/fixes/0.24

[01:09:04]

Hydr0p0nX:

i was looking in the wrong place obviously, thanks

[01:11:00]

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[01:15:47]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: remember months ago when i said i wasnt getting mythffplay compiled?

[01:24:00]

Beirdo:

only partially

[01:24:22]

wagnerrp:

i finally read through the ffmpeg configure earlier today, seems it needs sdl

[01:24:32]

Beirdo:

lameness

[01:24:51]

Beirdo:

that would do it though

[01:29:55]

wagnerrp:

of course since the packaging system doesnt strictly define what files must be installed, my systems remained otherwise happy

[01:29:56]

wagnerrp:

:)

[01:32:29]

Hydr0p0nX:

eh, i think i foud my problem with nuvexport

[01:33:08]

Hydr0p0nX:

ffmpeg 0.10 is installed and fails the check for <0.5 in nuvexport

[01:34:21]

wagnerrp:

0.1? just how old is this system?

[01:34:27]

Hydr0p0nX:

um

[01:34:32]

Hydr0p0nX:

0.10 is the latest version

[01:34:41]

Hydr0p0nX:

makes no sense to me either ..

[01:34:50]

wagnerrp:

oh, 0.10, not 0.1.0

[01:35:10]

wagnerrp:

in any case, its probably a good thing it fails

[01:35:17]

Hydr0p0nX:

it is :)

[01:35:24]

Hydr0p0nX:

i took the checks out to see what would happen

[01:35:26]

wagnerrp:

chances are there have been enough command line changes that it wouldnt work anyway

[01:35:40]

wagnerrp:

which is why we have mythffmpeg to use instead

[01:36:20]

wagnerrp:

gives us a static target for use with things like nuvexport

[01:40:24]

Hydr0p0nX:

the problem is, it doesn't seem to pick up mythffmpeg

[01:40:39]

wagnerrp:

you have mythtv installed on this same machine?

[01:40:45]

Hydr0p0nX:

yep

[01:40:48]

Hydr0p0nX:

front and backend

[01:41:03]

wagnerrp:

someone else's packages?

[01:41:12]

wagnerrp:

(not built by you)

[01:41:15]

Hydr0p0nX:

right

[01:41:27]

wagnerrp:

they may not have built that stuff

[01:41:36]

wagnerrp:

or they may not have included it if it did get built

[01:42:10]

Hydr0p0nX:

it got built and i have it on my system in /usr/bin

[01:42:22]

Hydr0p0nX:

when i do -v i get unknown version

[01:42:54]

wagnerrp:

where are these packages from?

[01:43:15]

wagnerrp:

oh, youre saying mythffmpeg reports unknown

[01:43:21]

Hydr0p0nX:

yes

[01:44:00]

Hydr0p0nX:

centos 6.2 packages from atrpms

[01:44:09]

wagnerrp:

there arguably doesnt even need to be a version check against mythffmpeg

[01:44:27]

wagnerrp:

if it exists, use it, and assume the packager didnt screw up and leave an old copy of the file around during an upgrade

[01:44:43]

Hydr0p0nX:

would think not, i'm looking to see how the code checks for it now

[01:46:42]

Beirdo:

sigh

[01:47:06]

Beirdo:

thanks for reminding me... need to check that nuvexport is functional before 0.25 release

[01:47:25]

Beirdo:

and if it's not, figure out what regressions we caused :)

[01:48:44]

Beirdo:

as for 0.24 compatible versions, you need to use old ffmpeg versions

[01:49:10]

Beirdo:

I'm not going to spend much time reworking the older version to use current ffmpeg commandlines

[01:49:13]

Beirdo:

sorry

[01:49:18]

Hydr0p0nX:

no worries

[01:49:26]

Hydr0p0nX:

wouldn't ask it

[01:50:34]

Beirdo:

they changed their commandline options more often than I changed socks, it seemed

[01:50:54]

Beirdo:

(note: I don't wear socks most of the time, so this isn't actually all THAT bad)

[01:51:36]

Hydr0p0nX:

k, looks like they broke the link for /usr/bin/ffmpeg -> /usr/bin/mythffmpeg

[01:51:53]

Beirdo:

there should be no such link

[01:52:02]

Hydr0p0nX:

hmm

[01:52:14]

Beirdo:

mythffmpeg is built as part of mythtv

[01:52:16]

Hydr0p0nX:

i don't see a check for mythffmpeg

[01:52:27]

Beirdo:

yeah, that's in current nuvexport

[01:52:36]

Beirdo:

not in 0.24 versioned, IIRC

[01:53:02]

Beirdo:

now, you might be able to get around it with such a link, not sure

[01:55:25]

wagnerrp:

considering you would have to disable the version check

[01:55:37]

wagnerrp:

you may as well just point nuvexport at mythffmpeg

[01:55:42]

Hydr0p0nX:

yea, that's 2 lines commented :)

[01:56:51]

Beirdo:

hackage is always fun

[01:57:05]

Beirdo:

hmmm, what to have for dinner...

[02:02:08]

Hydr0p0nX:

i'm having london broil

[02:02:20]

** wagnerrp debates writing a tftp server to generate pxelinux configs **

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[02:09:23]

ertyu-m:

is there any auto detection/correction for content that has extra letter boxing?

[02:09:44]

wagnerrp:

autodetection, and autoscaling, yes

[02:10:24]

ertyu-m:

nice, where is that built in?

[02:10:31]

ertyu-m:

or where does it take place

[02:10:40]

wagnerrp:

i believe its enabled by default

[02:10:47]

wagnerrp:

it "just happens"

[02:10:52]

wagnerrp:

what do you mean where does it take place

[02:11:10]

ertyu-m:

I would guess on the frontend during playback?

[02:11:16]

wagnerrp:

yes

[02:12:05]

ertyu-m:

I'm surprised they haven't built that into TVs

[02:12:10]

ertyu-m:

nice to see myth has it

[02:19:55]

jya:

k-man: it builds with either LLVM (must enable debug mode) or gcc. This depends on what XCode you have installed. XCode 4 is llvm, gcc is XCode3. Which is why, up to now you had to use 10.6 to build myth, as XCode3 isn't availble on Lion and was required to build myth

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[02:26:06]

wagnerrp:

silly tftp... "32MB is enough for anyone"

[02:27:53]

[R]:

it's called trivial...

[02:28:07]

Beirdo:

32MB?

[02:28:20]

ertyu-m:

a trivial protocol thats painful to use

[02:28:26]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: aye

[02:28:32]

Beirdo:

no, it's trivial to use :)

[02:28:54]

Beirdo:

how did it end up as 25bits?

[02:28:55]

[R]:

i wrote a unidirectional tftp server once

[02:32:13]

Beirdo:

this one time at band camp...

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[02:59:28]

k-man:

jya, thanks

[02:59:39]

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[02:59:53]

k-man:

jya, i'll try and work on the packaging thing sometime to get an idea if and how it can be done using brew

[03:11:04]

k-man:

jya, if you are insterested in more details about writing brew formulas, check this page: https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/wiki/Formula-Cookbook

[03:12:08]

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[03:39:38]

** Beirdo decides to fix the "exit 139" in mythcommflag for Ubuntu **

[03:39:53]

Beirdo:

gotta figure out WHY it's horked though

[03:40:04]

Beirdo:

and only (AFAICT) unter Ubuntu

[03:40:13]

Beirdo:

I think it's an eglibc screwup

[03:40:25]

[R]:

is that still a problem?

[03:40:50]

Beirdo:

yes

[03:41:17]

Beirdo:

read "Issues with 0.25" on the -users ML

[03:41:35]

Beirdo:

reported today... same stupid thing I've been seeing here the whole time

[03:42:57]

[R]:

aside from a bad exit code, it always seemed to work, so i enver really cared

[03:43:24]

Beirdo:

yeah, it just manifests as bad logging

[03:43:33]

Beirdo:

easily fixed though

[03:45:11]

[R]:

so im watching celebrity apprentice... and this stupid celebrity didn't know how to spell medieval

[03:45:36]

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[03:45:37]

Beirdo:

so?

[03:45:44]

Beirdo:

it's not an easy word to spell

[03:46:34]

Hydr0p0nX:

so i found my problem with nuvexport

[03:46:38]

Beirdo:

even non-celebrity types can mess that one up

[03:47:25]

[R]:

she was doing mid-evil

[03:48:06]

Beirdo:

besides... who watches Apprentice, let alone Celebrity Apprentice... and expects smart people? :)

[03:48:27]

[R]:

well i watch it cuz i know they are idiots

[03:48:39]

[R]:

but im still astonished sometimes

[03:53:41]

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[03:54:36]

Hydr0p0nX:

awesome

[03:55:43]

Hydr0p0nX:

i had to comment the crop and pad parameters to get nuvexport working but it works :)

[03:56:57]

Beirdo:

yeah, check how that was done in current nuvexport if you want that functionality

[03:57:05]

Beirdo:

it's one of the many things they messed with

[03:57:25]

Hydr0p0nX:

i'm not to worried about it really

[03:57:41]

Hydr0p0nX:

this is just so i can stream to my laptop and bedroom

[03:57:48]

Beirdo:

cool

[03:58:09]

Hydr0p0nX:

it sounds like .25 is coming along pretty well so i can wait on a proper fix

[04:11:55]

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[05:23:05]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: how are you supposed to know that an exit value of 6 (abort) is valid?

[05:24:21]

Beirdo:

hmm?

[05:24:44]

Beirdo:

I'm not following

[05:24:56]

wagnerrp:

hang on... trying to think this one through

[05:25:08]

Beirdo:

with that patch, 0–127 as an exit value are accepted as exit values

[05:25:24]

Beirdo:

and 128–254 are assumed to be mistaken signals

[05:26:12]

Beirdo:

255 is left as a special case (in case of command not found type of things)

[05:26:15]

wagnerrp:

so you segfault on mythcommflag, and for some reason get a 139

[05:26:30]

wagnerrp:

the code chops off the 8th bit, making it 11

[05:26:43]

wagnerrp:

which that code now recognizes as a successful completion with 11 commercial breaks

[05:26:45]

Beirdo:

it will say... hmmm, that looks wrong... and byte swaps it

[05:26:57]

Beirdo:

no, it doesn't chop any bits

[05:27:14]

Beirdo:

it just byte-swaps the status

[05:27:36]

wagnerrp:

if mythcommflag errors with a 139, what is output from mythsystem?

[05:28:10]

Beirdo:

if it's set to low exit val only: it will return that the process was killed with sig11

[05:28:24]

Beirdo:

otherwise, it will return the actual value

[05:28:35]

wagnerrp:

so mythsystem() will then return '11', correct?

[05:28:39]

Beirdo:

no

[05:28:55]

wagnerrp:

it will return 127–11?

[05:29:08]

Beirdo:

it will return GENERIC_EXIT_KILLED

[05:29:11]

Beirdo:

which is 140

[05:30:14]

wagnerrp:

oh, byte swap.... 4 low bits are swapped with the 4 high bits

[05:30:33]

Beirdo:

no, top byte and bottom byte in a 16bit word

[05:30:52]

Beirdo:

status as returned from waitpid() is a uint16_t

[05:31:07]

** wagnerrp gives up and goes back to work on other things **

[05:31:17]

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[05:31:29]

Beirdo:

LSB is the exit code, MSB is the signal (with most significant bit 1 meaning core dumped)

[05:32:05]

Beirdo:

the problem is that somehow the LSByte has the signal info on some ubuntu systems (for no good reason)

[05:32:22]

Beirdo:

so I byte swap it to put it back in the MSByte where it belongs

[05:33:07]

Beirdo:

either way, if it gets it wrong, the net result is that the logs will be incorrect (as they are saying exit value 139)

[05:33:14]

Beirdo:

so it really doesn't hurt

[05:34:50]

Beirdo:

I think deep in eglibc, they buggered it up somewhere

[05:35:12]

[R]:

you think its in the "deep code level"?

[05:35:24]

Beirdo:

the kernel definitely is returning the correct thing back to *libc

[05:37:04]

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[05:37:09]

Beirdo:

but the number of times we've tried to explain it to people on IRC and on the ML just to have their eyes glaze over...

[05:37:33]

Beirdo:

it was worth just getting it in there to fix the problem with a bandaid

[05:42:23]

wagnerrp:

hey, to be fair, my eyes are glazed over from lack of sleep

[05:42:24]

wagnerrp:

:P

[05:42:37]

[R]:

like a doughnut?

[05:43:44]

wagnerrp:

exactly

[05:43:54]

[R]:

lol

[05:44:16]

[R]:

the nearest krispy kreme is so far away...

[05:45:33]

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[R]:

theres only 1 left in arizona

[05:50:10]

Beirdo:

mmmm, donuts.

[05:50:20]

Beirdo:

Top Pot makes some good ones here

[05:50:57]

Beirdo:

http://www.toppotdoughnuts.com/

[05:50:59]

Beirdo:

mmmm

[05:51:07]

Beirdo:

far better than Krispy Kreme

[05:54:47]

[R]:

this girl at my work said there was this oen place

[05:54:52]

[R]:

she brought them in once, it was pretty good

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[11:46:15]

G:

whats the best way to start afresh for everything but existing recordings?

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[12:07:47]

G:

(actually, that question can be ignored)

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[12:54:52]

lolcat`:

Hello

[12:55:02]

lolcat`:

Can you help me?

[12:55:05]

lolcat`:

err

[12:55:19]

lolcat`:

Can mythtv record into sesible formats?

[12:56:26]

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[13:40:47]

tank-man:

sesible?

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pyrodex:

god another school shooting...

[14:48:33]

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Jordack:

i know its not funny; but when you said that the first thing to pop in my head was george carlin. :( Im so messed up

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[17:42:12]

dekarl:

wagnerrp: wrt search rules and inetref, I chose to toot the horn of erring on the safe side... (aka not propagating the inetref from recordings up to the rule. I think propagating from the rule to the recording *in mythmetadatalookup* to be ok) ThisNewGuy seems to be talking about propagating the inetref down from the rule to the recording which is an entirely different beast

[17:43:54]

dekarl:

basically my intention was to allow exactly what ThisNewGuy wants, keeping the inetref of the rule empty if its no good fit. the old code would fill it when dangerously propagating data

[17:44:18]

dekarl:

so inetref from rule -> recording is good, but from recording -> rule is bad :)

[17:45:45]

dekarl:

the commit you are referring to is exacly that, not seeding the rule from the recording

[17:48:05]

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[17:54:24]

dekarl:

ThisNewGuy: I bet what you are seeing is one of the regressions mentioned here https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commits/mast . . . mythmetadata

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[18:29:02]

** wagnerrp wonders if Beirdo can explain what exactly occurred in Packaging... **

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Beirdo:

sure

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wagnerrp:

lolcat`: yes, mythtv can record in sensible formats, if your card outputs them

[18:46:13]

wagnerrp:

that means an MPEG encoder card, or a digital tuner

[18:46:32]

wagnerrp:

if you use a framegrabber, forcing mythtv to do the encoding itself, you get nuvs

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[20:24:40]

k-man:

i'm trying to schedule a recording in mythweb, i click the radio button for the desired schedule and then Update Recording Settings but when the page reloads it still makred as Dont Record this program

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sphery:

k-man: gonna need to give some more inforamation

[20:34:30]

sphery:

if nothing else, let us know if you're using stable code or unstable/development code

[20:34:51]

sphery:

if the latter, people on list are saying it's not working for them

[20:35:03]

sphery:

some are saying you need to fix your mysql settings to allow more connections

[20:35:15]

sphery:

and various other discussion

[20:37:20]

k-man:

sphery, ok

[20:38:01]

k-man:

i fetched mythweb a long time ago – where do i look for a version?

[20:38:43]

sphery:

mythtv version

[20:38:54]

sphery:

though you should update mythweb every time you update mythtv

[20:39:23]

k-man:

sphery, ah, i have a feeling i didn't anyway, its mythtv .24

[20:40:11]

k-man:

MythTV Version : v0.24.1-120-g294968b

[20:41:01]

k-man:

mythweb files are dated october 29 2011

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[20:44:24]

sphery:

well, if you're on 0.24-fixes, and you have a 0.24-fixes mythweb, then likely it's not a broken code issue

[20:44:35]

sphery:

(not much has changed in mythweb in 0.24-fixes)

[20:44:59]

sphery:

so I'd have to guess that it's something else you're not understanding

[20:46:01]

sphery:

s/you/we/

[20:46:10]

sphery:

i.e. more to it than we've noticed

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drac_boy:

hi

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k-man:

sphery, well, i have scheduled stuff via mythweb before and it worked, it appears as though it works sometimes but not others for some reason

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k-man:

does mythtv still require qt built with --qt3-support?

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[23:39:10]

skd5aner:

no?

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[23:46:18]

sphery:

I'd posit that the difficulty of reconfiguring/rebuilding Qt and every single application that links against it versus the 2MB or so difference in installed Qt size makes it a question that's not worth worrying about--unless your goal is to test MythTV compile on a Qt without qt3-support and create and submit patches for any remaining issues

[23:47:18]

sphery:

(at which point, I'd /still/ install Qt with qt3-support on my main system, but then install a separate Qt in /opt/qt-without-qt3-support/ or whatever to use for building/testing/updating MythTV)

[23:47:34]

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[23:47:36]

sphery:

contrary to popular belief, MythTV isn't the only app in the world using Qt :)

[23:47:51]

jya:

sphery: if upgrading from pre 0–23 to after 0.25 won't be possible, I hope there will be an external script provided to do so

[23:48:36]

sphery:

jya: we'll support upgrades from 0.22 to 0.25

[23:49:06]

sphery:

and the "supported" approach for upgrading from 0.21-fixes or below will be to install an intermediary version and let it upgrade, then install 0.25 and upgrade

[23:49:55]

sphery:

because, IMHO, we can't create and claim to support an upgrade from 0.18.1 to 0.25 for the 6 users who might still be using 0.18.1

[23:50:33]

jya:

thats what I mean.. it's a major pain if you can't upgrade in one go… most would have no idea where to find the packaged intermediary version

[23:51:30]

sphery:

which is why we'll be warning them to upgrade to 0.24-fixes, now, if they're using some ancient version :)

[23:52:30]

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[23:52:36]

sphery:

really, though, 0.22 was released 2 1/2 years ago, and if people haven't upgraded to it in that time, /they/ need to support their insistence on using old, outdated versions of our software

[23:54:58]

skd5aner:

with smolt be able to periodically report in and tell the number of people running a particular version (from 0.25 onward)?

[23:55:21]

skd5aner:

that way, you can see how many "active" installations are using 0.25, 0.26, 0.27, etc...

[23:55:51]

skd5aner:

doesn't do a lot of good for the use case above, but would help in the future determine how long people take before upgrading and how long people will run a particular version if they never plan to upgrade

[23:56:23]

skd5aner:

do people make the switch quickly? do they only do it every 6 months when their distro upgrades? do they never switch?

[23:56:34]

skd5aner:

would be good if it pinged in every month or so

[23:57:00]

sphery:

yeah, but at this point, there's a good chance (and I'll be doing some testing soon) that our current DB-accessing code doesn't support an upgrade from 0.21-fixes, anyway

[23:57:33]

skd5aner:

well – again, not really directly related to the issue jya brought up...

[23:57:55]

skd5aner:

but from a future standpoint... you'd know by the time we got to .29 how many people were still running .25

[23:58:27]

skd5aner:

(like browser statistics – very useful to know when IE 6 is 50% of your traffice versus <1%

[23:59:10]

skd5aner:

sphery: what's the big hold up for supporting an upgrade path further back?

[23:59:33]

sphery:

and since 0.21-fixes was obsoleted with the 0.22 release 2 1/2 years ago, IMHO, it's not worth the effort to a) debug, b) fix, c) continue to "maintain" (where that really just means responding to issues that are reported as people try to use the ancient upgrade code with modern MythTV) and d) leave users with the unsafe belief that they can just keep using an outdated version of MythTV for many years after it's replaced and we're no ...

[23:59:39]

sphery:

... longer supporting that version

[23:59:43]

skd5aner:

I mean, I thought that's what the schema upgrade check does – go through all versions and upgrade from there

[23:59:46]

sphery:

let alone make a script that tries to do the updates

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