Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, February 24th, 2012, 00:01 UTC

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drac_boy:

hi

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trumee:

J-e-f-f-A, ok after loading the mceusb map using ir-keytable coldbooting with mceusb remote works

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slickrick:

Can anyone give me some help with my hdpvr?

[00:38:54]

slickrick:

when i try to watch live tv or record i get the following in the slave log where the hdpvr is connected.

[00:38:55]

slickrick:

http://pastebin.ca/2121140

[00:39:54]

slickrick:

i had this hooked up to my esx server doing directio for the usb controller with no luck. i thought maybe thats why i couldn't get it to work so i switched it to a physical machine and i still can't make it work.

[00:39:57]

slickrick:

its very frustrating.

[00:41:17]

wagnerrp:

check your kernel logs? (dmesg)

[00:42:25]

slickrick:

i still have it on hdpvr_debug=7. but i don't see any errors other than ones from lirc_zilog when it changes channels, it does change channels successfully however.

[00:42:31]

slickrick:

i am going to turn down the debug to 1 and try again.

[00:44:16]

slickrick:

here are the logs at debug level 7: http://pastebin.ca/2121142

[00:45:58]

slickrick:

my mistake that was with hdpvr_debug=1

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slickrick:

the other odd tthing i notice is if i rmmod hdpvr it never completes, it s just stuck. and i get this in the kernel log: http://pastebin.ca/2121143

[00:52:20]

slickrick:

i am using the same host as i was under esx, i v2p'ed it onto the physical box. it's ubuntu 11.10.

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slickrick:

i went the other way and put debug to 7 and i notice this in dmesg: hdpvr 2–2:1.0: no video signal at input 0

[01:01:44]

wagnerrp:

do you have the wrong input selected?

[01:01:54]

wagnerrp:

i dont know if there is a software switch between component and svideo

[01:02:02]

wagnerrp:

or if it does so automatically based off signal detection

[01:02:29]

slickrick:

there is a software switch, but from what i read it defaults to component.

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wagnerrp:

is your delay set too low, and the STB hasnt started sending video yet?

[01:02:56]

slickrick:

if i cat /dev/video0 to a file it records from the correct input.

[01:04:23]

slickrick:

which delay? i have tried increasing the tuning timeout in mythtv-setup and also increasing the delay at the end of the channel change script with no luck.

[01:04:35]

wagnerrp:

both of those

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slickrick:

yes, i've tried both for the tuning timeout i set it as high as 30000 and it does the same thing.

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[01:06:24]

slickrick:

i upped to sleep in the channel change script (the one in the mythtv wiki) from 7 seconds to 15 and 20 as well.

[01:08:16]

slickrick:

the other odd thing i have found is when the latest firmware is installed the colour is off. (eg 1.6.29343 bad, 1.5.7.0 good)

[01:09:10]

slickrick:

i thought this would be much easier to get working then it has been so far. the only reason i'm off down this path is that i got the notice that analog cable is being turned off in my area so my pvr500's will be retired soon.

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sphery:

slickrick: if you have a long-running channel change script (or, basically, for /every/ HD-PVR setup), you will need to change the tuning (and possibly signal) timeout in mythtv-setup

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sphery:

slickrick: you probably want at least 10s for tuning timeout (10000ms) for HD-PVR (but whatever you use has to make sense with the channel change script you're using--the mythtv-setup tuning timeout must be greater than the maximum amount of time the channel change script will take)

[01:17:28]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the issue is by the time the tuning script returns and mythtv starts trying to pull data off that device

[01:17:34]

wagnerrp:

the HDPVR has no data to give it

[01:17:56]

wagnerrp:

hence my guess the tuning wait in the script was too short, not too long

[01:18:27]

sphery:

right

[01:18:54]

sphery:

but you need to increase mythtv-setup tuning tmeout any time you increase the channel change script sleeps

[01:19:23]

sphery:

er, by that I mean, "I'm just reminding slickrick that he also needs to ..."

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slickrick:

okay, i'll try changing the last sleep statement in the script and try again,.

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[01:19:46]

johnhame_:

Hey, I have a question: can you buy a DVB-T USB device that can allow you to switch from within the software – ie, without a remote?

[01:19:59]

wagnerrp:

any proper tuner will allow you to change the channel internally

[01:20:13]

wagnerrp:

however you still need a remote (or a keyboard) to tell mythtv to tell the tuner to change channels

[01:20:36]

wagnerrp:

if it cant change channels, then its not a tuner, its a video capture device

[01:20:52]

wagnerrp:

or in the case of digital tv, that would be an ASI capture device

[01:20:59]

johnhame_:

I'm planning on integrating with xbmc, so when i use xbmc's interface, i'll be able to switch?

[01:21:09]

sphery:

and if you're using an external tuner, rather than the capture device's internal tuner, you will need some way of controlling that external device (i.e. using an IR transmitter to control a set-top box that's feeding analog TV to a hardware encoder)

[01:21:36]

wagnerrp:

johnhame_: thats not for us to say, we dont develop or support XBMC's mythtv interface

[01:22:01]

sphery:

and, fwiw, there are a lot of mythtv features that are only accessible in mythtv's mythfrontend client

[01:22:17]

sphery:

(i.e. lots of cool stuff in there that it can do for you)

[01:22:34]

wagnerrp:

not that theyre only accessible, but that they are not re-implemented by 3rd party clients

[01:22:36]

johnhame_:

Fair enough, I'll probably just install it too and switch between Can you recommend a device that fits what I want? :)

[01:22:46]

wagnerrp:

!url tuners

[01:22:46]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[01:22:52]

wagnerrp:

we dont support tuner cards either

[01:23:00]

wagnerrp:

we just support the generic Linux tuner APIs

[01:23:14]

wagnerrp:

what whatever tuners have drivers that expose those APIs

[01:23:36]

johnhame_:

so any of these guys should be ok? (in the supported list): http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices

[01:23:57]

wagnerrp:

if the wiki says theyre supported, they should work

[01:24:04]

wagnerrp:

however, why do you specifically want a USB device?

[01:24:17]

johnhame_:

I'm running a mini itx board

[01:24:32]

johnhame_:

I'd prefer something more permenant

[01:24:37]

johnhame_:

but I doubt it'd fit

[01:24:42]

wagnerrp:

specifically what board?

[01:24:52]

wagnerrp:

pr rather, what CPU

[01:25:05]

johnhame_:

let me find ut for you

[01:25:31]

wagnerrp:

atom? arm? or is it some socket 755/1155/AM3 board with a separate processor?

[01:25:35]

johnhame_:

intel atom 330 @ 1.6ghz

[01:26:04]

johnhame_:

plays 1080p videos at about 5% on each core

[01:26:14]

wagnerrp:

so its an ION

[01:26:19]

johnhame_:

yep :)

[01:26:42]

wagnerrp:

well that CPU isnt worth crap, video playback only works because youve got that GPU backing it up

[01:26:52]

johnhame_:

wagnerrp indeed :)

[01:26:57]

wagnerrp:

which means transcoding is out of the question

[01:27:08]

johnhame_:

takes centuries to build packages

[01:27:20]

johnhame_:

yeah I was wanting something that transcoded for me

[01:27:25]

wagnerrp:

commflagging of standard definition content likely wont be that bad, but high definition DVB-T2 will be, should you ever get a -T2 tuner card

[01:27:47]

wagnerrp:

and youll need to pay attention to the scheduler runs

[01:28:02]

johnhame_:

I'd prefer to get a HD card… can I get one that transcodes in HW?

[01:28:09]

johnhame_:

(is that even possible)

[01:28:18]

wagnerrp:

one tuner, and broadcast TV in the UK, wont be all that difficult for it

[01:28:36]

wagnerrp:

but if you add additional tuners, or have a bunch of recording rules, youre going to load up the scheduler

[01:28:53]

wagnerrp:

as you record stuff and have duplicate matching to perform, scheduling will take longer and longer

[01:29:05]

slickrick:

sphery: i changed the channel change script to sleep 45 at the end and the tuning timeout to 35000. now i get: 2012-02–23 20:28:18.045 SignalMonitor: channel change failed in the slave log multiple times.

[01:29:12]

wagnerrp:

when the scheduler hits around a minute or so, it starts to become disruptive of things

[01:29:17]

johnhame_:

I'm not too fussed about that stuff, I just want to be able to watch live TV – I only have one TV socket in my pokey flat anyway

[01:29:33]

johnhame_:

Recording is not a big deal for me

[01:29:35]

wagnerrp:

tv socket, attached to a shared antenna?

[01:29:45]

johnhame_:

wagnerrp, quite possibly

[01:30:06]

johnhame_:

im in a shared apartment so I'd assume so

[01:30:32]

johnhame_:

I'm guessing that's going to impact on quality

[01:30:53]

wagnerrp:

im not sure how it is over there, but over here, apartments generally run cable rather than shared antenna drops

[01:31:07]

wagnerrp:

which require a different type of tuner (DVB-C)

[01:31:09]

sphery:

slickrick: yes, 45s is longer than 35000ms (=35s), so the channel change is timing out

[01:31:26]

sphery:

you need the mythtv-setup timeout to be longer than the channel change script takes to run

[01:31:31]

johnhame_:

I have cable too, but I don't want to pay the subscription – I only really watch what's on freeview anyway :)

[01:31:45]

slickrick:

oh, duh. i will up the timeout.

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drac_boy:

johnhame_ heh I used to watch tv from time to time up to till august .. barely ever seen anything except the occassional sleepover show at times

[01:32:31]

drac_boy:

you can blame crtc for causing that I guess but heh

[01:32:55]

johnhame_:

drac_boy, I barely watch liveTV, but I just want my HTPC setup to be complete :p

[01:33:42]

drac_boy:

johnhame_ heh I don't think a htpc means it must have tv channels but to our own ;-)

[01:34:04]

johnhame_:

drac_boy, it's got everything else i can think of, why not? :P

[01:35:22]

slickrick:

i tried 45/55000 with the same result, SignalMonitor: channel change failed

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[01:40:55]

slickrick:

hey it works, sorta. i put the channel change script back to sleep 7 and left the tuning timeout at 55000.

[01:40:57]

johnhame_:

wagnerrp, is this suitable for my purposes: http://bit.ly/AmowVF

[01:41:03]

drac_boy:

johnhame_ now only if I could get this stupid ADC circuit to work. something seem to be shortening out for good :-s

[01:41:07]

slickrick:

i was able to watch tv from the hdpvr for about 10 seconds then i got: http://pastebin.com/kbQ9Dk2t

[01:41:21]

johnhame_:

ouch

[01:41:58]

johnhame_:

wagnerrp, it says "* HDTV H.264 / MPEG-2 live TV Ready" – is that HW transcoding or formats it supports reading?

[01:42:15]

wagnerrp:

johnhame_: its completely meaningless

[01:42:24]

johnhame_:

wagnerrp, hahah

[01:42:28]

wagnerrp:

all it does is pass a filtered transport stream to the system

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wagnerrp:

it doesnt care what kind of content is actually contained within

[01:42:48]

johnhame_:

ok

[01:42:49]

wagnerrp:

nor does it care what resolution that content is

[01:43:05]

johnhame_:

Wold you consider that a good buy for me?

[01:43:16]

johnhame_:

*would

[01:43:46]

wagnerrp:

if its listed as supported on linuxtv, 55 for a single tuner is still awfully high, and i personally dont like buying electronics off ebay

[01:44:30]

johnhame_:

ok i'll look for something else :)

[01:47:15]

johnhame_:

wagnerrp, what about this one: http://bit.ly/xJvT0e (More, but T2)

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wagnerrp:

again, if its supported by linuxtv...

[01:49:06]

johnhame_:

lol

[01:49:13]

johnhame_:

im talking price more than anything

[01:49:18]

johnhame_:

i have no point of reference

[01:49:33]

wagnerrp:

there is at least one USB T/T2 tuner ive heard of that will operate in T, or T2, but not both dynamically

[01:49:44]

wagnerrp:

you have to reload the drivers with a different argument to switch between the two

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johnhame_:

ok

[01:49:59]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to most hybrid tuners that can be done within mythtv

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[02:10:01]

[R]:

i see a ticket for british translation for myth

[02:10:08]

[R]:

does that make myth say pip pip cheerio and such?

[02:10:36]

wagnerrp:

no, it just randomly adds extra vowels to words

[02:11:17]

[R]:

HAHA

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[02:25:22]

skd5aner:

[R]: actually, the British translations have been one of the only ones usually at or near 100% completion... even over US_EN translations

[02:25:44]

skd5aner:

and yes, there are good reasons why there are actually US "translations"

[02:26:37]

knightr:

skd5aner, I know but I have to work on the French one first, the other two English translation I maintain are done last but don't worry they will be done in time for release...

[02:26:48]

skd5aner:

I just assume though, that the British ones always misspell "color" and "gray"

[02:26:58]

knightr:

s/translation/translations

[02:27:35]

skd5aner:

knightr: heh – well I certaintly wasn't trying to call you out of pick on you :)

[02:27:54]

knightr:

skd5aner, not only that, commercials become adverts, programs become programmes, customized stuff become customised, etc... :)

[02:29:11]

** drac_boy always uses colour and grey **

[02:29:13]

drac_boy:

:)

[02:29:30]

skd5aner:

I'm surprised the British translations don't also rename the project to "MythTelly"

[02:29:42]

skd5aner:

stuartm: ^ better get on that

[02:30:58]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: I guess the people who play wheel of fortune over there must win a lot less cash since the board contains 10% more vowels

[02:31:37]

** skd5aner gracefully exits after that for the night **

[02:31:48]

knightr:

skd5aner, np, and the funny thing is it actually takes time to fill those in (I also try to check for typos and other similar problems..)...

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[04:25:49]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: do you have the eink or lcd nook?

[04:26:16]

Beirdo:

lcd nook color

[04:26:24]

wagnerrp:

nevermind

[04:26:57]

Beirdo:

no prob

[04:27:08]

wagnerrp:

apparently there is a user-made patch that drastically speeds up the eink refresh rate, at the expense of some artifacts when scrolling

[04:28:10]

wagnerrp:

its damn near usable now

[04:28:15]

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[04:28:23]

wagnerrp:

easily 5fps

[04:28:41]

wagnerrp:

the ones on the kindle are like 0.5 fps

[04:29:13]

wagnerrp:

it makes web browsing like trying to use github

[04:29:14]

wagnerrp:

:)

[04:29:37]

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[04:29:59]

Beirdo:

heheh

[04:33:10]

sphery:

hehe

[05:01:06]

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[05:09:08]

jya:

I just received my Kindle Touch 3G..

[05:09:16]

jya:

screen is so much clearer than my Kindle2

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[05:45:54]

jim_:

can I set up a myth box without a video capture card to use for music only ?

[05:46:20]

[R]:

mnyth is a dvr

[05:46:22]

[R]:

if you dont want a dvr

[05:46:26]

[R]:

myth isn't forf you

[05:46:33]

wagnerrp:

forf?

[05:46:48]

[R]:

lol

[05:47:51]

jim_:

Well I was planing to get a card later down the line, but wanted to get it started setting up

[05:48:08]

wagnerrp:

jim_: mythtv will currently not function without a capture input and channels

[05:48:21]

wagnerrp:

now you can fake it, using a dummy tuner pointed at an mpeg file on your filesystem

[05:48:32]

wagnerrp:

but thats an awful lot of work just for music

[05:48:55]

jim_:

wagnerrp: thanks, any suggestions on what to get for a card , using Intel chipset

[05:48:57]

wagnerrp:

further, if you do want to use it for music as a primary purpose, you may want to start after the release of 0.25

[05:49:17]

wagnerrp:

mythmusic got rewritten by the developer in charge of that for the 0.25 release

[05:49:24]

wagnerrp:

which should happen i early april

[05:50:01]

jim_:

wagnerrp: will I still need to have the ATT box plugged in before the computer ?

[05:50:19]

wagnerrp:

AT&T UVerse?

[05:50:24]

jim_:

yes

[05:50:33]

wagnerrp:

yes, U-Verse is a proprietary, encrypted system

[05:50:43]

wagnerrp:

there is no way to access it besides the AT&T provided set top box

[05:50:56]

wagnerrp:

meaning mythtv would need to use an analog capture card to record from the video outputs

[05:51:10]

wagnerrp:

and you would need some form of IR blaster to allow mythtv to control the set top bo

[05:51:11]

wagnerrp:

x

[05:51:33]

jim_:

The ATT box does have an HDMI output

[05:51:45]

jim_:

and Input\

[05:52:20]

wagnerrp:

i would be very much surprised if it had an input

[05:52:42]

wagnerrp:

unless thats some lame attempt at passthrough for customers who dont otherwise have a TV with multiple switchable inputs

[05:52:51]

jim_:

I stand corrected, it is a R45

[05:52:55]

wagnerrp:

the HDMI output will be encrypted and useless for recording purposes

[05:53:25]

jim_:

So then to use Myth, I would be better off going back to regular cable ?

[05:53:35]

wagnerrp:

who would the local cable provider be?

[05:53:44]

jim_:

comcast

[05:53:48]

wagnerrp:

absolutely

[05:54:03]

wagnerrp:

!url cablecard

[05:54:03]

MythLogBot:

No match for keyword cablecard

[05:54:07]

wagnerrp:

!url digitalcable

[05:54:08]

MythLogBot:

No match for keyword digitalcable

[05:54:11]

wagnerrp:

hmm

[05:54:14]

wagnerrp:

!url – list

[05:54:14]

MythLogBot:

analoghw currentrelease deleteme(disabled) devrelease digitalhw down faq fixesrelease google linuxtv lmgtfy log logs overscan pastebin recordingcable theming tuners upnp vdpau wiki

[05:54:21]

wagnerrp:

!url recordingcable

[05:54:21]

MythLogBot:

recordingcable: http://mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable

[05:54:30]

wagnerrp:

jim: ^^^ you would use the cablecard option

[05:54:48]

jim_:

Wow, thanks so much for your input

[05:54:55]

wagnerrp:

pick up a cablecard tuner, rent a cablecard rather than multiple cable boxes

[05:55:03]

wagnerrp:

and record everything but the premium channels directly

[05:55:20]

wagnerrp:

premiums are copy protected, you would still need to go the analog capture and IR blaster route for those

[05:55:22]

jim_:

I really like the idea of the control over Myth vs the ATT option

[05:56:03]

jim_:

wagnerrp: if you gave me a print of a box, I could probably build it.

[05:56:52]

wagnerrp:

print?

[05:57:17]

jim_:

this gets a lot more involved than they suggest on the site, print = schematic

[05:57:54]

jim_:

I was a tech for years till parts got too small and my eyes got too old.

[05:59:14]

wagnerrp:

any decent PC is plenty sufficient

[05:59:31]

jim_:

whats the cost of a card ?

[06:00:29]

wagnerrp:

the three options right now are the DCR-2650, HDHomeRun Prime, and InfiniTV

[06:00:44]

wagnerrp:

for 2, 3, and 4 simultaneous inputs, respectively

[06:01:04]

wagnerrp:

each only requires one rented cablecard, rather than one per input

[06:01:29]

wagnerrp:

im not sure of the prices off hand

[06:01:37]

wagnerrp:

maybe $130, $200, and $250

[06:02:14]

jim_:

wow, that takes some thought, I can get a new carb for my HD for just about the same price

[06:02:31]

wagnerrp:

i dont know what that means

[06:02:35]

jim_:

sounds like your an old hat with this

[06:02:57]

wagnerrp:

"new carb for my HD" ?

[06:03:40]

jim_:

my old harley needs a new carb, and I am quickly running out of summers to ride.

[06:03:46]

wagnerrp:

anyway, do understand that youre replacing that many cable boxes

[06:04:05]

jim_:

I understand.

[06:04:09]

wagnerrp:

including the $8-$10/mo rental fee for those cable boxes

[06:04:25]

wagnerrp:

its more expensive up front, but significantly less recurring cost

[06:04:28]

jim_:

That is always a good thing.

[06:04:56]

jim_:

that is exactly what I am hoping for. I can always get an old computer

[06:04:57]

[R]:

i'm still waiting for my myth to pay for itself

[06:05:08]

[R]:

i should ahve been like ricky ricardo and asked it to call me when it was done paying for itself

[06:05:25]

jim_:

hahhahaha

[06:05:57]

jim_:

About the only electronics I ever got more than my money out of was my stereo gear

[06:05:58]

wagnerrp:

yeah... dont think mythtv is a "cheap" option

[06:06:05]

wagnerrp:

its a money sink, like any good hobby

[06:06:14]

[R]:

but it so mcuhb etter than anything out there

[06:06:30]

jim_:

I am a Ham radio op so I really understand that

[06:06:48]

wagnerrp:

its just that among mythtv gear, a cablecard tuner replacing several monthly cable box rentals, and a $150 HDPVR capture box for each, is quite cost effective

[06:07:26]

jim_:

you are basically paying for the cable only

[06:07:41]

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[06:08:09]

[R]:

wagnerrp: i've heard lots of stories of peopel self installign cablecards and i found a page about self install kits on cox's website... have they loosened up the insantiy of having to get a truck roll?

[06:08:10]

wagnerrp:

there is a nominal fee for the cablecard

[06:08:16]

wagnerrp:

usually like $2-$3/mo

[06:08:30]

wagnerrp:

[R]: some places yes, some places no

[06:08:59]

jim_:

I sure do thank you for all the information, It may take a bit to ingest, but I think ATT uvers is doomed

[06:09:30]

jim_:

by cable card I assume you are talking about a card that plugs into the computer and connects to the cable ?

[06:09:39]

wagnerrp:

UVerse is doomed because theyre trying to push IPTV over ADSL

[06:09:49]

wagnerrp:

ever used a tivo?

[06:09:58]

jim_:

No

[06:10:07]

wagnerrp:

when was the last time you used comcast?

[06:10:27]

wagnerrp:

well anyway...

[06:10:30]

jim_:

To be honest, I still communicate via Morse code, I am a bit behind on this stuff

[06:10:42]

wagnerrp:

a "cablecard" is a modular decryption card in the form factor of a PCMCIA device

[06:10:46]

jim_:

had comcast about two years ago

[06:11:02]

wagnerrp:

cable boxes have been required to use them for about 6 years now

[06:11:05]

jim_:

wow thanks, I had no Idea.

[06:11:14]

wagnerrp:

usually you can see a bay in the back of one for the cablecard

[06:11:20]

wagnerrp:

although it may be covered by a metal plate

[06:11:49]

wagnerrp:

the idea was that instead of having to rent cable boxes, you could buy your own dvrs, tvs, and tuner cards with cablecard slots

[06:11:53]

jim_:

I see, so I can put a PCMCIA slot where the old A drive was and go

[06:12:47]

wagnerrp:

but cable labs (the company set up to manage the system) put too tight of restrictions on testing and licensing, so up until about three years ago, there were enough devices you almost couldnt count them all on your fingers

[06:13:02]

wagnerrp:

the cablecard slots into the tuner itself

[06:13:09]

wagnerrp:

the tuner then feeds the unencrypted video to the computer

[06:13:32]

jim_:

OK got it, you just saved me tons of time reading ,

[06:13:40]

wagnerrp:

about three years ago, the FCC ruled cablecard a failure, and started making plans for a replacement

[06:13:46]

jim_:

what do the cable companies think of all of this /

[06:14:06]

wagnerrp:

so faced with having to replace all of their in-the-field hardware, cable labs lightened up the restrictions, and were finally starting to see some usable devices

[06:14:30]

wagnerrp:

as a last gasp to show the FCC that cablecard is still relevant

[06:14:54]

jim_:

something like that happened in Ham radio which set us back in Packet radio for years

[06:15:26]

wagnerrp:

cablecard is a full DRM scheme, and since mythtv is open source and cannot possibly implement any form of DRM, we cant actually access copy protected content

[06:15:42]

wagnerrp:

we are allowed to access the unprotected content

[06:16:10]

wagnerrp:

comcast and verizon run most of their channels (usually all but the premiums) as unprotected

[06:16:10]

jim_:

but you could have a box for that stuff if you wanted to pay ?

[06:16:27]

jim_:

I see

[06:16:29]

wagnerrp:

on the other hand, time warner protects nearly all their stuff

[06:16:42]

wagnerrp:

so cablecard works great for comcast/verizon users

[06:16:46]

wagnerrp:

but is worthless for time warner users

[06:16:57]

wagnerrp:

theyre stuck using cable boxes and analog capture

[06:17:23]

jim_:

its all about greed

[06:17:30]

jim_:

greed is not good.

[06:18:18]

jim_:

sounds like you really have a hand on Linux as well

[06:18:22]

wagnerrp:

comcast is well known for bending their customers over the barrel, its frankly strange to see them so lax with respect to cablecard

[06:18:37]

** wagnerrp points at his /whois **

[06:18:38]

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[06:19:01]

[R]:

no, i'm pretty sure 'greed is good'

[06:19:04]

[R]:

i heard it in a movie once

[06:19:06]

jim_:

that is the reason I no longer use them, I would not let them run a cable across the yard and they got prissy about it

[06:19:36]

jim_:

R hey remember what happened to him ?

[06:19:41]

wagnerrp:

you have underground utilities?

[06:20:08]

[R]:

to who

[06:20:33]

jim_:

Yes I do but in front, in my back yard I have many wires streched out in a circle like spokes for my antenna

[06:20:34]

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[06:20:58]

jim_:

I did not want comcast to upset those.

[06:21:09]

jim_:

took a long time to get them installed

[06:21:53]

jim_:

R th the guy who said greed is good.

[06:22:40]

[R]:

he lived a very long and fullfilling life

[06:22:42]

wagnerrp:

you know, i was just talking to someone earlier today about you RF guys and your dark magic

[06:22:50]

[R]:

RF scares me

[06:23:03]

[R]:

we have a 1000 watt amplifier at m ywork

[06:23:19]

jim_:

R what is it for ?

[06:23:28]

[R]:

i insist on being notified 48 hours in advance of it being turned on so i can avoid coming in on that day

[06:23:29]

wagnerrp:

i was reading through some of the IEEE models for 802.11ad, trying to find the channel width

[06:23:31]

[R]:

jim_: HF

[06:24:10]

jim_:

wagnerrp: on old tv it was six megs, I do not know if that is changed now.

[06:24:21]

wagnerrp:

reading through the some of the crap in there like attenuation models for signal passing through human flesh

[06:24:35]

wagnerrp:

i couldnt help but thinking its all a bunch of smoke and mirrors

[06:24:36]

[R]:

this one guy at my work

[06:24:40]

[R]:

toold me that i'm safe with HF

[06:24:42]

[R]:

cuz of it's wavelength

[06:24:47]

[R]:

i didn't buy it

[06:24:53]

[R]:

and how tall i am

[06:24:59]

wagnerrp:

so people dont realize you guys are actually going down into your dungeons and reciting incantations over your DSPs

[06:25:31]

jim_:

R you are exposed to RF constantly, it is directed UHF/VHF that kills ya

[06:25:45]

[R]:

yes, but when im in the same room as a 1000 watt amp

[06:25:47]

[R]:

it scares me

[06:26:08]

wagnerrp:

jim_: 802.11ad is the wireless video stuff, 60GHz, 7Gbps, short range MIMO array

[06:26:10]

jim_:

R its like a fat girl, if she aint sitting on ya your fine

[06:26:19]

[R]:

wtf...

[06:27:05]

jim_:

wagnerrp: at those freqs, it is very wide band width, look up band plans and check with ARRL for that info

[06:27:14]

jim_:

its in english there

[06:27:27]

wagnerrp:

heh, well its still not a finalized draft

[06:27:37]

wagnerrp:

and the real docs are locked behind a (very pricey) paywall

[06:27:40]

jim_:

sorry, I meant narrow bandwiths

[06:28:34]

wagnerrp:

i was trying to explain to someone why carrier frequency meant nothing with regards to total bandwidth for modulated signals

[06:28:37]

jim_:

Higher the freq, shotter the wave and so wave length is also short, that is why no one will ever get FM radio above 15k

[06:29:52]

jim_:

wagnerrp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandplan

[06:30:44]

jim_:

wagnerrp: that is true, first they lop off one side of the wave, then they supress the carrier

[06:31:10]

wagnerrp:

looks like its the 5mm EHF band

[06:31:12]

jim_:

It is different with FM ,

[06:31:22]

[R]:

EXTREME HF

[06:32:00]

jim_:

way past that, wow, I run around 14 megs myself.

[06:32:40]

jim_:

that is what is called a line of sight signal, perhaps used between towers or sites

[06:33:20]

wagnerrp:

between AV equipment in the same room, specifically

[06:33:32]

jim_:

I ran stuff up in that area in the Army and the antennas had to be dead on

[06:34:10]

wagnerrp:

personally a bunch of nonsense if you ask me, why use wireless when its so easy to run wires

[06:34:28]

jim_:

Oh Ok that makes sense. Too short a wavelength to travel to far on limited transmitters.

[06:35:07]

wagnerrp:

well too short to travel too far at any power level

[06:35:12]

wagnerrp:

a piece of drywall would stop it

[06:35:16]

jim_:

wagnerrp: I am with you, everything in my house runs on wires, I can blow up a wireless device if I happen to trip it with one of my radios.

[06:35:58]

wagnerrp:

heh, my problem is just that ive got stucco walls

[06:36:05]

jim_:

and wireless crap is really noisy in my radio receivers on low level signals

[06:36:20]

wagnerrp:

ive got to have multiple wifi APs, it doesnt travel well through wire mesh walls

[06:36:59]

wagnerrp:

im just of the opinion the wireless spectrum is a limited, shared resource

[06:37:18]

jim_:

No but, you can go down, below where the drywall ends, pull the base boards and go in there, but you need to make holes in the baseboards to re install

[06:37:53]

wagnerrp:

huh?

[06:38:09]

jim_:

wagnerrp: You are correct but with things like spread spectrum and PCM they are getting more and more out of it.

[06:38:32]

[R]:

-that's what she said

[06:38:46]

wagnerrp:

i mean ive got CAT6 run everywhere, i just need to have multiple APs because one wont go through more than a wall or two

[06:38:53]

jim_:

huh, if you need to pass throu\\\\\\\\\\\\

[06:39:17]

jim_:

I see, wow, you have some setup there.

[06:39:24]

wagnerrp:

for wireless devices, laptop, tablet

[06:39:33]

wagnerrp:

stuff that is actually mobile, and makes sense to be wireless

[06:39:51]

jim_:

I mostly use this for music, I have about six hundred albums on here

[06:40:06]

wagnerrp:

rather than things like PCs and printers and scanners and TVs, stuff that is all statically position never to move

[06:40:25]

wagnerrp:

i dont like the trend of using wireless for those sorts of things

[06:40:36]

jim_:

I understand, with addressing, the wavelength will never be a problem for those devices

[06:41:43]

jim_:

same here, most everything here is hard wire. Only wireless is the radios and my wife's hearing aids that are bloothed to the stereo and TV

[06:43:08]

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[06:45:02]

jim_:

wagnerrp: well thanks for all the information, I will be having a lot to think over before I start n this project.

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[08:35:17]

wagnerrp:

looks like the EFF won the suit against Astrolabe and the Olson TZ database

[08:38:11]

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[08:38:42]

peitolm:

well, didn't they basically say "drop your suit, you forgot fact = prior art"

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[08:44:02]

wagnerrp:

yeah, like half a year ago when the nutbags^H^H^H^H^H^H^H astrologers started getting bitchy in the first place

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dj_who:

hi is it possible to transcode lossless h.264 recorded show (dvb-t MPEG4) i want just cut commercials and leave 2 audio streams and subtitles as in original file

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[13:07:50]

Hydr0p0nX:

can anyone tell me how to fix this: ProgramInfo(1004_20120224070600.mpg), Error: GetPlaybackURL: '1004_20120224070600.mpg' should be local, but it can not be found

[13:08:17]

Hydr0p0nX:

happens when a recording is scheduled to start

[13:10:42]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: kinda surprised that you didn't try talk Fredrik into leveraging the Services API for his android app rather than MythProtocol

[13:11:13]

stuartm:

he'd be giving up 0.24 compatibility?

[13:11:18]

dj_who:

hi maybe you already deleted the file

[13:11:20]

skd5aner:

so?

[13:11:35]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: I mean, you kept talking about why using mythproto is not a great idea, but idn't give him alternatives

[13:12:43]

dj_who:

any one know how transcode h264?

[13:12:51]

skd5aner:

0.25 is around the corner... and I would think the devs would want any chance they could to promote adoption of the new API by 3'rd party developers – since that was the whole point. It'll give people another reason to upgrade, and should provide a better experience – which translates to happier MythTV users :)

[13:14:20]

skd5aner:

and instead of saying it's compatible with a specific proto version(s) – you can simply say it's compatible with mythtv 0.25+ so long as the API remains stable across versions

[13:16:24]

skd5aner:

btw – does the new MythMusic rely on a created playlist?

[13:24:04]

jya:

skd5aner: by using mythproto he can have an application working now for most people. using the new service API he would have nothing ready, and it would have been a work in progress until very recently

[13:27:12]

skd5aner:

jya: maybe it's just me, but I would think releasing something at the sunset of a particular version (and 18+ months after the version before it), rather than simply releasing for the next major version which a significant number of mythtv users will be running by summer doens't make much sense to me

[13:27:53]

skd5aner:

but, hey... I'm just glad he did it, since I'm an android user

[13:28:21]

jya:

if his aim is to have the maximum amount of users, and the greatest stability, it makes sense to me to develop something for the current official version

[13:28:22]

skd5aner:

I figured pointing him in the direction of the services API was the "right thing" to do

[13:28:27]

jya:

hopefully, he will adapt it...

[13:28:49]

jya:

Then I'll have to start working on my iOS one if iamlindoro is only to make his compatible with Torc

[13:29:12]

skd5aner:

jya: so you going to build it now for 0.24 on mythproto? ;-)

[13:29:37]

jya:

surely, he would have known about it.. it's been advertised for quite a while, including iamlindoro with his iPad preview, that clearly mentioned what he was using

[13:29:58]

jya:

nah, by the time I'm finished, 0.27 will be out so I'm sure the service API is stable

[13:30:18]

skd5aner:

jya: doubtful – he has never posted on the mailing list except to announce his android app

[13:30:37]

jya:

surely he would have read the list before

[13:30:42]

skd5aner:

maybe?

[13:30:51]

jya:

you don't start developing something like that without yourself being a big myth user

[13:30:54]

skd5aner:

I mean, he did initially write it to support 0.23 (not 0.24) :)

[13:31:16]

skd5aner:

that tells me he's not /that/ big of a mythtv user

[13:31:33]

jya:

well, he had to work his way against the dev adding stuff to prevent people using the proto :)

[13:31:39]

jya:

like Apple vs jailbreaker

[13:31:47]

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[13:32:10]

jya:

anyway, rather than criticising him, I'm glad he did it, and took the time and effort to do so

[13:32:27]

jya:

I wonder if he reused any of the existing android project mythdroid

[13:32:31]

skd5aner:

jya: yea, I'm not trying to be overly critical of him – I'm glad he did it too

[13:33:48]

jya:

too bad I won't be able to test it

[13:34:01]

jya:

I really feel the pain he must have been trhough

[13:34:14]

jya:

Android is the worse platform I ever had to displeasure to work on

[13:34:30]

skd5aner:

but I do wonder how much he is aware of mythproto/mythxml/services API... I mean, again, he built it to run against a version of mythtv that's been EOL since Nov 2010

[13:36:31]

** jya wonders how Android ever got where it is.. such a pile of crap **

[13:36:33]

skd5aner:

jya: heh – yea, well – regardless of how he did it, at least he's got a platform to work off of – and maybe he simply supliments his work and leverages the API for 0.25 while maintaining backwards compatibility with 0.23 and 0.24 – that'd be a pretty good win for him

[13:36:59]

jya:

hopefully he has made quite a nice class over the mythproto

[13:37:10]

jya:

so changing over the service API won't require too much change

[13:37:11]

skd5aner:

jya: interesting – I've heard tales of both horror and wonder of developing for the platform

[13:37:25]

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[13:37:32]

jya:

I've just finished 3 more apps last week on Android..

[13:37:34]

skd5aner:

jya: what's your biggest turn off?

[13:37:42]

jya:

Android :)

[13:37:53]

jya:

the SDK is the worse in the entire universe

[13:38:09]

jya:

well, not quite true… linux + gdb + myth is worse

[13:38:13]

skd5aner:

yea, if the SDK sucks, then that makes everything else suck too

[13:38:19]

jya:

to give you an example

[13:38:24]

jya:

and I'm no microsoft fan

[13:38:31]

jya:

I wrote the iOS app

[13:38:41]

jya:

3 months to write it from scratch

[13:39:04]

jya:

then I ported the Android application, it shared 90% of the code as the core app is in C++ so I used JNI

[13:39:22]

jya:

to write the remaining 10%, the UI itself took me 3 months

[13:39:30]

jya:

Then I ported it to Windows Phone 7

[13:39:57]

jya:

I had never done Silverlight coding, haven't done .Net in almost 10 years, and never done C# ever before

[13:40:21]

jya:

I rewrote the application from scratch (you have to, no native code on WP7), I was done in 3 weeks

[13:40:39]

jya:

WP7 SDK, documentation is just the best there is out there.

[13:41:06]

skd5aner:

yea, I know a guy who is a master .Net developer... he loves how simple MS has made it

[13:41:36]

jya:

From an OS point of view and the quality of the API, I would have to place iOS in the first spot. It has an API for everything. All extremely well documented, with clear examples

[13:42:14]

jya:

like in XCode, you look at the documentation, point at a function, and right away you can download an example for it without living XCode

[13:42:44]

jya:

Android the documentation is poor, it's pretty much just Oxygen output, only gives you the name of the arguments in most cases

[13:42:48]

jya:

no example to speak of

[13:43:06]

jya:

your only real source of information is stackoverflow.com

[13:43:21]

skd5aner:

jya: I've always wondered how easy or hard it is to port between android and iOS... I know there's intermediators and the like. But just how much work is involved in trying to manually port

[13:43:24]

jya:

can you believe that there's no resource editor on Android ?

[13:43:54]

jya:

with iOS/XCode and WP7/Visual Studio, it's like using paint

[13:44:03]

jya:

drag & drop your UI component

[13:44:03]

jya:

assign

[13:44:04]

jya:

code

[13:44:16]

skd5aner:

yea, sounds like the old visual basic

[13:44:17]

jya:

Visual Studio is absolutely brilliant…

[13:44:19]

skd5aner:

(in a sense)

[13:44:53]

jya:

iOS is fundamentally Objective-C, Android is Java, WP7 C#

[13:44:58]

jya:

so very different base

[13:45:06]

skd5aner:

yea

[13:45:20]

jya:

but you can share a lot of code between iOS and Android by using JNI (Java Native Interface)

[13:45:30]

jya:

you can share C/C++ code from java

[13:46:26]

jya:

but I really have to say, I enjoyed working on WP7… the framework is very limited, way too limited but the dev tools are great

[13:46:39]

jya:

give me iOS and Visual Studio for it, and you have a winner

[13:46:41]

skd5aner:

seems like you work on a lot of cool stuff jya – but I've never been able to pick up what that is exactly... do you work for a software firm?

[13:47:16]

jya:

I founded this company 10 years ago: http://www.hydrix.com/

[13:47:46]

jya:

Hydrix is an engineering development services firm

[13:47:53]

skd5aner:

sweet

[13:48:01]

skd5aner:

I'll have to dive around the site

[13:48:12]

jya:

I sold it last year because I had enough running a 40+ people company.

[13:48:26]

skd5aner:

heh – well congrats on that too

[13:48:36]

jya:

I just wanted to write code… So now, I work from home, and I write application for iPhone/Android/WP7

[13:48:38]

skd5aner:

still work for them?

[13:49:27]

jya:

I have kept a few clients for whom we designed iPhone application, and I've been back doing real work since

[13:49:35]

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[13:49:45]

jya:

my domain of preference is embedded development software

[13:50:18]

jya:

before that I worked for Hewlett-Packard for a few years. I designed a few of their calculators

[13:50:28]

skd5aner:

oh man, I LOVED the HP calculators

[13:50:50]

jya:

HP48, 49, 50, 39, 40 are calculators I was team leader for

[13:50:56]

skd5aner:

I had the 48 and 49

[13:51:04]

jya:

shit keyboard

[13:51:04]

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[13:51:14]

skd5aner:

no kidding... that's awesome, my calculus teacher in hs would have loved to meet you... haha

[13:51:26]

jya:

if you still have an HP49, type RULES

[13:51:41]

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[13:51:44]

skd5aner:

he got me hooked on it, and could never go back to a TI from that point forward

[13:51:50]

jya:

HP and Texas Instruments were some of Hydrix clients

[13:51:54]

jya:

we designed a few for them.

[13:52:05]

jya:

TI Xpander is the last machine we worked on

[13:52:34]

skd5aner:

the stack was awesome

[13:52:49]

jya:

Ti people are great guys to work with. Still old school who think that only high quality is economical

[13:53:15]

skd5aner:

man it's been 10 years though since I've used it... I think I left the batteries in my 48 and it corroded the contacts

[13:53:23]

jya:

anyhow, that's some of the things I've done.

[13:53:26]

jya:

What about you?

[13:54:00]

skd5aner:

I primarily do infrastructure strategy and architecture for a (very) large company

[13:54:18]

skd5aner:

Started off my days as an Active Directory engineer

[13:54:34]

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[13:54:37]

jya:

the microsoft stuff ?

[13:54:38]

skd5aner:

so, I'm one of the few folks in here that probably actually like Microsoft :)

[13:54:40]

skd5aner:

yea

[13:54:46]

stuartm:

skd5aner: re mythmusic, yes to a certain extent but no more than the old mythmusic, there are 'smart' playlists (based on a set of rules e.g. 'Jazz' with a rating of '6 or higher'), or 'just play everything in the classical genre' type stuff

[13:55:25]

stuartm:

as it currently stands, the browse/editor modes aren't as easy to switch between as I think they need to be

[13:55:42]

wseltzer:

'morning myth-ers

[13:55:47]

skd5aner:

Now I plan out multi-generation strategy on core infrastructure capabilities such as datacenter, security, network, desktop/mobile, etc

[13:56:06]

stuartm:

Good Morning Wendy!

[13:56:29]

jya:

skd5aner: sounds very cool.. does it get you to travel much?

[13:56:31]

skd5aner:

jya: I also do research on innovation outside of my industry to see how it might apply in my industry

[13:56:36]

wseltzer:

hi Stuart!

[13:56:39]

stuartm:

you can create playlists by year/artist/album/genre and other criteria

[13:57:00]

wseltzer:

visiting here to see if I can figure out when the mythmusic menus broke

[13:57:01]

stuartm:

of course it's afternoon here ...

[13:57:26]

jya:

ouch.. 1AM.. ok I want to test gigem stuff and off bed

[13:57:33]

skd5aner:

jya: very sporadic – travel budgets have been sliced drastically in the last 3 years – so I used to go to NYC a lot, but now we leverage Cisco telepresence as an alternative to travel when feasible

[13:57:35]

stuartm:

wseltzer: heh, the subject of the re-written mythmusic has just come up, so your timing is perfect

[13:57:42]

wseltzer:

:)

[13:58:16]

wseltzer:

I don't mean the arrangement, but the fact that none of the popups seem to function

[13:58:21]

stuartm:

it's quite not there yet, I'm still finding it a little clumsier than it should be

[13:58:31]

stuartm:

wseltzer: well that's not good ...

[13:58:32]

skd5aner:

jya: hey – thanks for the time, was very interesting to learn a little bit more about you – good night

[13:59:43]

skd5aner:

stuartm: thanks... yea, I haven't played with it yet, but I was skimming through that recent post on the mailing list where people were bringing it up

[14:00:31]

wseltzer:

stuartm: I had it working with the new layout, then updated, and now keypresses have no effect.

[14:01:46]

stuartm:

wseltzer: ok, that's very odd, I'm unable to reproduce or think of what might have changed to cause that

[14:02:21]

wseltzer:

someone else is reporting it on the list, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/504770

[14:02:44]

wseltzer:

and protocol and schema changes in the interim are making it hard for me to get back to an older version

[14:05:06]

wseltzer:

Otherwise, though, I like that mythmusic is getting some attention. :)

[14:05:21]

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[14:05:25]

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[14:05:39]

stuartm:

should get more attention for 0.26, which we're (I'm) hoping will be ready by mid-year

[14:06:01]

wseltzer:

great!

[14:06:01]

stuartm:

wseltzer: are you using mythbuntu like the user in that list thread?

[14:06:20]

wseltzer:

no, from source

[14:07:20]

wseltzer:

maybe I'll finally try to put my classical tweaks into the base

[14:09:40]

stuartm:

wseltzer: that would be good, I've been meaning to make some changes to better support classical music, including displaying more/different metadata for classical tracks, importing Composer info from ID3 tags and browsing by Composer in the playlist editor

[14:11:03]

wseltzer:

stuartm: Part of my challenge with generalizing is that I've somewhat abused the tags

[14:11:22]

wseltzer:

ie, putting composer into Artist, and performers into Title

[14:13:47]

stuartm:

wseltzer: ah, yeah I've actually done the same, but it means editing the tags on everything I buy and I figured that supporting the correct tagging was a better long term strategy

[14:14:49]

stuartm:

although I don't look forward to the job of straightening out the tags, so it would have to work reasonably well with both

[14:15:10]

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[14:15:36]

wseltzer:

yes, I also munge the tracks to merge all the movements into a single track

[14:16:14]

wseltzer:

(driven by earlier, messy randomization methods)

[14:16:29]

stuartm:

wseltzer: I'm baffled by the bug you are seeing, I need to discuss it with Paul since I can only think it's something he's done incorrectly when using mythui

[14:17:17]

stuartm:

wseltzer: just to confirm, you aren't seeing the same problem with any other part of mythtv?

[14:19:04]

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[14:19:06]

stuartm:

being unable to reproduce the issue makes it that much harder to find the cause :/

[14:20:11]

wseltzer:

stuartm: I can't find any other place where the menus pop up similarly

[14:20:36]

wseltzer:

I can confirm that it happens regardless of theme.

[14:23:36]

wseltzer:

stuartm: and it doesn't happen with the mythvideo menus

[14:23:38]

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[14:24:22]

stuartm:

oh that's interesting, suddenly it's no longer working for me

[14:24:45]

stuartm:

well that's progress of sorts

[14:25:57]

stuartm:

ah, no it is working, I was working in the wrong window ... oops

[14:26:08]

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[14:26:38]

wseltzer:

If I can help with testing, I'm happy to take suggestions.

[14:27:34]

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[14:29:21]

stuartm:

wseltzer: can you give a step by step description from the moment you enter mythmusic, what you see on screen (screenshots might help but may not be necessary) what is expected and what doesn't work – the mailing list thread doesn't leave me with a complete picture of the problem

[14:30:08]

wseltzer:

essentially, keypresses on the popup menus don't register.

[14:30:12]

jya_:

wagnerrp: how do you pass arguments to the grabber from mythfilldatabase with 0.24?

[14:30:55]

stuartm:

wseltzer: by popup menus, you mean the menu shown when you press trigger the MENU action (usually bound to M on a keyboard)?

[14:31:08]

wseltzer:

stuartm: e.g., hit ESC to quit, the menu asks: "quit, keep music playing in the background, or cancel" and nothing happens

[14:31:24]

wseltzer:

stuartm: or the M menus

[14:31:43]

stuartm:

right, ok, those would be the popup menus I thought you meant originally, but I had to be sure :)

[14:32:48]

stuartm:

too often something gets lost in communicating a problem and we end up going around in circles looking in the wrong place

[14:33:11]

wseltzer:

no problem

[14:35:57]

stuartm:

I'd like to rule out a binary issue resulting from changes made I yesterday, can you rebuild the plugins (or mythmusic specifically) after running 'make clean' in the plugin directory then re-install and see if that helps?

[14:36:28]

stuartm:

if that doesn't work then I'll have you revert those changes and see if they were somehow to blame

[14:37:04]

wseltzer:

have done that

[14:37:13]

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[14:37:31]

stuartm:

darn, not that easy then :)

[14:39:14]

stuartm:

does this frontend have a mouse attached? I'm curious whether the mouse works even if the keyboard does not?

[14:39:43]

wseltzer:

I haven't even tried the mouse. Will do so.

[14:41:31]

wseltzer:

stuartm: mouse doesn't seem to work either

[14:42:14]

stuartm:

Escape doesn't work to exit the popup? So you are then stuck with it on screen?

[14:43:49]

wseltzer:

Escape brings up and clears the popup. None of the buttons on the popup register

[14:44:04]

wseltzer:

so I can't leave mythmusic!

[14:45:10]

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[14:46:26]

pyrodex-work:

Running myth v0.25pre-4671-g5501fff and for some reason even though I have done a mythfilldatabase I don't see any guide data. my recordings are working but listings in myth web only shows today and doesn't show other days. plus backend status says no guide data. Any thoughts?

[14:48:11]

pyrodex-work:

Correction. I see guide data but can't chose a day… if I hit the forward arrow where the day would be it directs me to the next day, yet backend status still shows no guide data.

[14:49:16]

stuartm:

wseltzer: when you say they don't register, do you mean nothing at all happens? Or the popup disappears but we don't exit mythmusic?

[14:52:49]

wseltzer:

stuartm: I can move among the buttons (I'm doing everything on a keyboard)

[14:53:29]

wseltzer:

and where there's a muilti-level menu, I can get to other items, such as the switch view -> list of views

[14:53:52]

wseltzer:

but I can't select any of the options — that final Enter just dismisses the pop-up

[14:55:38]

stuartm:

ok thanks, that's really narrowed it down, I have a couple of ideas to run down now

[14:57:12]

wseltzer:

thanks! let me know how I can help further

[15:00:28]

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[15:02:44]

stuartm:

one last thing, roughly when did you update and when did it last work?

[15:03:37]

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[15:03:45]

drac_boy:

hi

[15:05:49]

stuartm:

wseltzer: which translation are you using? en_US or something else?

[15:08:15]

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[15:08:51]

wseltzer:

stuartm: en_US; and I updated yesterday; previous version was about 15 January

[15:08:58]

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[15:14:05]

stuartm:

when you get the chance, could you test the following patch: http://pastebin.com/pueLp8x3

[15:14:37]

stuartm:

it's unlikely to work and yet I feel like it's worth a shot

[15:15:46]

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[15:36:08]

stuartm:

wseltzer: ^^ in case you missed it

[15:36:41]

wseltzer:

stuartm: will do

[15:36:54]

stuartm:

thank you

[15:38:43]

stuartm:

the change that reverts/alters was made Jan 30th, so it raises suspicion and it would help to explain why it works for some people but not others – if it turns out to work I'm thinking a bug in gcc maybe

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[15:50:10]

jams:

haha some guy wants to rewrite the windowmaker install scripts in perl because bash is hard. Also goes on to state that perl will be on EVERY unix system but sh will not.

[15:50:36]

stuartm:

heh

[15:52:48]

stuartm:

saying that you prefer perl is fine, perhaps it would have been best to have left it there rather than just to add further justifications

[15:52:49]

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[15:53:00]

jams:

yep

[15:53:02]

stuartm:

I don't much like writing anything of any length with bash

[15:53:35]

jams:

all the wmaker scripts do is check for a dir, if not present make the dir and copy in files

[15:54:03]

jams:

the suggestion was not received very well =)

[15:54:20]

jams:

i don't think the scripts have been touched in 5+ years

[15:54:26]

stuartm:

sigh, there's a good example of what I said to knightr on the mailing list – "rather than just to add"? That should have been "rather than trying to add"

[15:54:56]

wseltzer:

stuartm: that fixed it. Thank you!!!

[15:54:59]

stuartm:

jams: if that's all they do, then it would be rather silly to re-write them in perl

[15:55:10]

jams:

oh it is silly

[15:55:32]

jams:

there is a little more to it, but it's all well within the range of "sh"

[15:55:37]

stuartm:

wseltzer: great ... that's good and bad news, but I'll stay positive for the moment

[15:56:30]

CiaranG:

Perhaps he could write a perl script to check for the presence of a shell, and launch the existing script if it's there

[15:56:45]

CiaranG:

If it doesn't find it, it could auto-email SETI, because it's surely not running on this planet

[15:57:06]

wseltzer:

stuartm: I'm glad to have the system back in shape to demo tonight

[15:57:12]

wseltzer:

for a friend who insists on iTunes :)

[15:57:41]

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[16:03:08]

wseltzer:

now I just have to figure out how to re-theme the playlist display page...

[16:03:23]

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[16:06:57]

aleprovencio:

hello guys, is it possible to run a mythtv backend on a dd-wrt router?

[16:11:30]

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[16:19:42]

wagnerrp:

jya: in 0.24, anything not specifically handled by mythfilldatabase is passed onto the grabber

[16:20:06]

jya:

wagnerrp: I found my answer looking at the source code, it was --graboptions

[16:20:28]

jya:

s/s//

[16:20:31]

wagnerrp:

or it was that... been a year since i looked at that in depth

[16:20:40]

wagnerrp:

aleprovencio: no

[16:23:28]

aleprovencio:

wagnerrp, thanks for the info. Are you aware of the existence of any project related to this?

[16:26:22]

wagnerrp:

to running mythbackend on an embedded router? i dont know why anyone would even want to try

[16:28:46]

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[16:32:57]

aleprovencio:

wagnerrp, don't you think it would be nice powerful routers with usb ports like asus rt-n16 do DVR as well?

[16:33:17]

wagnerrp:

wait... there are nice powerful consumer routers?

[16:33:27]

wagnerrp:

i think youre pulling my leg

[16:34:18]

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[16:36:18]

wagnerrp:

lets see, the RT-N16 is a BCM4716 (MIPS32) at 480MHz, with 128MB of memory, and 32MB of flash

[16:37:13]

wagnerrp:

that puts it squarely in early Pentium II territory, mid-90s grade performance

[16:37:36]

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[16:37:40]

wagnerrp:

a "slow" machine by any sense of the term when mythtv was first released in 2002

[16:38:27]

wagnerrp:

128MB of memory means between the database and backend, you're already heavily into swap

[16:41:13]

aleprovencio:

wagnerrp, ops didn't know that mythtv's backend needed that much of resources

[16:42:06]

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[16:42:24]

drac_boy:

aleprovencio well its videos, what else is new? :)

[16:42:33]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt need that much in the way of resources, your low end desktop PC these days will have ~30x the amount of power and several GB of memory

[16:44:03]

wagnerrp:

just because one can install a cut down embedded linux distro on something does not make it all capable

[16:44:05]

dj_who:

hi, all is it possible to transcode h264 video in mythtv .24?

[16:44:23]

aleprovencio:

wagnerrp, right. thanks for the info

[16:44:48]

wagnerrp:

dj_who: transcode TO h264 video?

[16:45:09]

dj_who:

h264 to h264

[16:45:12]

stuartm:

exactly, it's all relative, the backend can run happily on a slow machine, but when we say slow we tend to mean relative to desktop processing power today (or even 10 years ago), not 15–20 years ago

[16:45:37]

dj_who:

an dvb-t mpeg4 with 2 audio streams and subtitles

[16:45:40]

wagnerrp:

dj_who: mythtranscode can transcode from h264, but not to it

[16:46:07]

wagnerrp:

you have lossless mpeg2->mpeg2 "transcoding" that just clips the commercials and applies some fix ups

[16:46:13]

dj_who:

so how to cut commersials without loosing subtitles and 2 audios?

[16:46:22]

wagnerrp:

but everything else is either ASP or RTJPEG, in a NUV

[16:47:12]

wagnerrp:

dj_who: until someone updates mythtranscode with lossless h264 support, try projectx or handbrake

[16:47:54]

wagnerrp:

or, you just create the cutlist and let mythtv transparently skip over it during playback

[16:49:35]

dj_who:

it takes much space on my disk

[16:50:15]

wagnerrp:

it might take an extra 20–30% of disk space

[16:50:32]

dj_who:

and i want to have few favorites without comercials

[16:51:23]

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[16:52:08]

dj_who:

maybe it is possible to transcode to mpeg2 but with 2 audio streems and subtitles?

[16:52:10]

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[16:52:30]

wagnerrp:

no, mythtv cannot transcode to mpeg2

[16:52:36]

stuartm:

given the cost of disks right now lossless H.264 cutting would be really handy

[16:52:49]

wagnerrp:

it can only losslessly cut mpeg2, and then do minor repair around the cutpoints

[16:52:59]

stuartm:

it could, but it doesn't

[16:53:38]

stuartm:

we could transcode to a lot of different formats, but the glue between our transcode app and the underlying ffmpeg libs is missing

[16:53:39]

dj_who:

did you tried http://eternalvoid.net/tutorials/mythtv-autotranscode/

[16:54:41]

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[16:56:17]

stuartm:

hmm, direct db access, not good

[16:56:37]

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[16:57:16]

wagnerrp:

complex tasks in bourne, not good

[16:57:37]

dj_who:

after bad transcode action i had to also modify db manual to restore original file

[16:57:41]

wagnerrp:

automatic generation of a cutlist, not good

[17:03:39]

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[17:06:27]

** wagnerrp gets frustrated at mark lord sometimes **

[17:06:52]

ZuluFoxtrot:

Hi – mythlink.pl and optimize_mythdb.pl were both complaining that Database schema 1298 not supported, so I thought maybe I needed to reinstall the bindings, but now I get something even uglier --> http://pastebin.com/MzYK655A

[17:07:07]

wagnerrp:

hehehe

[17:07:18]

wagnerrp:

yeah, database version 1298 is not supported

[17:07:57]

wagnerrp:

oh wait, we are at 1298... fancy that

[17:08:16]

wagnerrp:

well then, that means your perl bindings are out of date and need to be updated

[17:08:33]

wagnerrp:

they should have been updated when you installed mythtv

[17:08:57]

wagnerrp:

and would have only been skipped if you were missing some pre-reqs, or if specifically told it to not install the perl bindings through configure

[17:09:38]

ZuluFoxtrot:

That's what I thought too, but just to further break things I did a "make ; make install" from GIT/Trunk/mythtv/mythtv/bindings/perl

[17:10:27]

wagnerrp:

that would only work if the perl bindings were enabled by the configure command

[17:10:53]

wagnerrp:

and if they had been, they would have been installed with the rest of mythtv, and that command would have been unnecessary

[17:11:04]

wagnerrp:

run configure again, see if theres a warning of you missing something

[17:11:15]

ZuluFoxtrot:

ok thanks

[17:11:16]

wagnerrp:

right now, im going to bet its Socket::INET:6

[17:11:31]

ZuluFoxtrot:

maybe I need to disable IPV6 in configure?

[17:12:41]

wagnerrp:

no such option

[17:13:30]

wagnerrp:

even if you dont use it, or even have it enabled on your system, configure is not intelligent enough to not require the package

[17:13:35]

ZuluFoxtrot:

I see that, I'll just install dev-perl/IO-Socket-INET6 then maybe?

[17:13:56]

wagnerrp:

that should do it

[17:14:00]

wagnerrp:

that sounds like gentoo

[17:14:53]

wagnerrp:

you should be picking up that requirement automatically

[17:15:27]

wagnerrp:

https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/mast . . . 3.ebuild#L67

[17:17:05]

ZuluFoxtrot:

I'm rolling my own for Myth for some crazy reason

[17:18:58]

pyrodex-work:

Running myth v0.25pre-4671-g5501fff and for some reason even though I have done a mythfilldatabase yet backend status still shows no guide data. Mythweb shows no days in the listings but I can click the arrows to advance next day and my recordings aren't failing. Any thoughts?

[17:19:37]

ZuluFoxtrot:

wagnerrp: thanks for the help, installing 'dev-perl/IO-Socket-INET6' did the trick

[17:32:15]

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[17:38:32]

ZuluFoxtrot:

I just happened to see 'netflix' fly past when I did an 'optimize_mythdb.pl'. There's no support for Netflix in MythTV is there?

[17:38:42]

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[17:41:37]

sphery:

ZuluFoxtrot: there was an old "MythFlix" that allowed you to edit your NetFlix queue. Playback isn't (and never has been) supported.

[17:42:03]

ZuluFoxtrot:

Oh yeah, I remember that now, thanks.

[17:42:17]

sphery:

Since NetFlix uses Silverlight, and the Silverlight DRM (which cannot be made to work in F/LOSS), it's likely we'll never have an ability to play NetFlix videos

[17:42:45]

sphery:

that said, Roku and Wii and PS3 and ... do a good job of it :)

[17:42:47]

wagnerrp:

hahah... whoops!

[17:42:54]

wagnerrp:

i pushed a change, closed a ticket

[17:43:04]

wagnerrp:

then realized several minutes later the push failed due to a conflict

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[18:16:05]

sphery:

crazy mythtv devs adding code to make it hard for external apps to connect

[18:16:13]

sphery:

and right in the middle of a stable release version, too

[18:18:07]

wagnerrp:

oh wait, it doesnt make it harder because you find the information you need to connect in exactly the same place as you find the information you need to maintain your protocol support

[18:18:17]

wagnerrp:

or wait, that means you have to maintain your protocol support

[18:18:26]

wagnerrp:

my bad, they are making it hard for external apps to connect

[18:19:56]

sphery:

exactly!

[18:20:42]

sphery:

should just work magically

[18:21:20]

sphery:

like how if I know JSON, I can use the services api code without having to learn an API

[18:21:42]

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[18:24:55]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: actually, youre wrong

[18:26:02]

wagnerrp:

the version hes using is just over a month and a half old... htts://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/a5fcf . . . 20103.ebuild

[18:26:09]

wagnerrp:

crap...

[18:26:16]

wagnerrp:

https://github.com/MythTV/packaging/blob/a5fc . . . 20103.ebuild

[18:26:32]

wagnerrp:

still wrong... screw it

[18:26:39]

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[18:39:34]

Beirdo:

well, my math may be bad, but the sentiment is the same

[18:39:42]

wagnerrp:

:)

[18:39:48]

wagnerrp:

just being difficult

[18:40:11]

Beirdo:

hehe :) no problemo

[18:40:14]

wagnerrp:

date is easy enough to get from the filename (Jan 3rd)

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[19:01:39]

justdave:

so, running close to the tip of 24-fixes... if I'm watching live TV (yeah, I know, nobody really does that anymore) it goes to total static on the audio every time the program changes (when it switches to the new recording on the back end)

[19:01:53]

justdave:

hitting the right arrow to skip ahead fixes it

[19:01:55]

justdave:

every time

[19:02:33]

justdave:

but the audio noise at full blast until you can reach the remote is terribly annoying. :)

[19:03:03]

wagnerrp:

sounds like either pulseaudio finickiness, or an issue with digital audio

[19:03:16]

justdave:

I keep seeing commits to 24-fixes that say "fixing audio sync issue on live tv" and so forth, and keep hoping it's the one.... :)

[19:03:22]

justdave:

yeah, pulseaudio probably.

[19:03:29]

justdave:

no digital audio here unfortunately

[19:03:37]

wagnerrp:

you have pulseaudio installed?

[19:03:50]

justdave:

I think so

[19:04:03]

wagnerrp:

is mythtv using pulseaudio, or is it disabling it to access ALSA underneath?

[19:04:04]

** justdave looks **

[19:04:44]

wagnerrp:

if youre disabling it, you should see messages to that regard in your frontend logs

[19:04:51]

** justdave looks **

[19:05:43]

justdave:

2012-02–24 13:52:38.573 AO: Opening audio device 'PulseAudio:default' ch 2(2) sr 44100 sf 32 bit floating point reenc 0

[19:05:56]

justdave:

and then this at the point when it goes to static:

[19:05:57]

justdave:

2012-02–24 14:00:05.001 PulseAudio Error: stream buffer under flow

[19:06:13]

dj_who:

what would be the best free app on ubuntu to cut commercials without loosing 2 audio streams and subtitles?

[19:06:29]

wagnerrp:

dj_who: my guess, try handbrake

[19:06:49]

sphery:

handbrake does cuts?

[19:07:06]

wagnerrp:

its a video editor, it should

[19:07:08]

sphery:

I'll have to figure out how to do that

[19:07:13]

wagnerrp:

theres a full UI and everything

[19:07:17]

wagnerrp:

its not just handbrakecli

[19:07:25]

sphery:

yeah, I've used the UI

[19:07:44]

sphery:

only figured out the "select profiles and encoding options" stuff

[19:07:44]

dj_who:

in mythtv the cut editor is realy good for me

[19:07:51]

dj_who:

easy to use

[19:08:15]

wagnerrp:

i dont know if there are any mechanisms to extract the cutlist and convert it into something handbrake can import

[19:08:23]

wagnerrp:

for that matter, i dont know if handbrake can import cutlists

[19:09:59]

dj_who:

but can i make cut list in handbrake?

[19:10:31]

dj_who:

maybe openshot will be good for that

[19:12:44]

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[19:17:27]

wagnerrp:

sphery: reading back through this question, im a bit confused... is baylink saying the backend should announce its version first, or that the backend should refuse connection but tell the client what it is? http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /328544.html

[19:17:42]

wagnerrp:

because it does do the latter

[19:21:16]

sphery:

I interpreted it as saying protocol version on first connect

[19:21:55]

wagnerrp:

so what i described at the bottom, the backend initiating the version cehck

[19:22:00]

sphery:

yeah

[19:22:36]

sphery:

though changing the protocol, now, doesn't make a lot of sense

[19:23:17]

wagnerrp:

and as i mentioned, changing it to do that could not be done without breaking all other clients

[19:23:22]

sphery:

especially since it just saves one round trip of (tiny amount of) data

[19:23:25]

sphery:

yeah

[19:23:33]

wagnerrp:

the other clients are not going to be expecting unsolicited data upon connection

[19:23:39]

wagnerrp:

and it is going to throw them off

[19:24:42]

sphery:

besides, a protocol is a protocol

[19:25:00]

sphery:

it works the way it works because that's how someone designed it

[19:30:52]

stuartm:

so we're not believers in a sentient protocol?

[19:32:18]

stuartm:

btw, I thought one of the goals/side benefits of this new services api was that apps wouldn't need to use our internal protocol?

[19:33:43]

sphery:

exactly

[19:34:08]

sphery:

though then we just move the incompatibilities elsewhere

[19:34:10]

sphery:

:)

[19:35:49]

stuartm:

well I'd hope that the new api is designed with some backwards compatibility and stability (I know that it is to an extent), whereas our protocol was designed for efficiency/speed but not so much a stable API or really use by third parties

[19:36:24]

sphery:

yeah, but just saying there's only so much you can do

[19:36:33]

sphery:

especially when you're forcing clients to interpret data

[19:36:39]

stuartm:

the new API also has input validation etc built in, our protocol doesn't because we think we can trust our own apps not to send bad data

[19:37:03]

sphery:

and it seems everyone wants clients doing interpretation, so...

[19:37:44]

wagnerrp:

there is some amount of input validation, but its done per-method, and poorly

[19:38:12]

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[19:38:19]

sphery:

yeah, basically only whatever is implemented by the developer implementing the functionality, ttbomk

[19:38:45]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: that's depressing to hear, I was given to believe it would be pretty rigorous

[19:38:53]

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[19:38:56]

sphery:

with the possible exception of enum value checks (which may or may not exist, now, but is something David talked about)

[19:38:59]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: no, in our backend protocol

[19:39:18]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: oh right, no not in the protocol, I thought you meant the new API

[19:39:34]

wagnerrp:

the services API requires IO to be strictly defined through its introspective code generator

[19:39:36]

sphery:

I'm pretty sure it's the same in the new api

[19:39:48]

sphery:

but a string is a string

[19:39:53]

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[19:39:55]

wagnerrp:

true

[19:39:59]

sphery:

it's doing more of a format validation

[19:40:03]

sphery:

than input validation

[19:40:04]

stuartm:

I'm going to keep calling the old protocol 'the protocol' and the new services protocol 'the API' to try and avoid confusing the two

[19:41:03]

stuartm:

sphery: guess my diatribe about input validation was ignored then :(

[19:41:27]

stuartm:

I mean I expect to be ignored, but still

[19:44:08]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: i dont know how you could build in input validation

[19:44:17]

wagnerrp:

i mean you can do type validation on the inputs

[19:44:27]

wagnerrp:

but a framework isnt going to know how the data is going to be used

[19:44:43]

sphery:

right

[19:44:50]

wagnerrp:

theres no sensible way to tell it "i can accept a 6 here, but not a 7"

[19:45:13]

sphery:

but I think he's saying it needs to be designed into the functionality as functionality is implemented

[19:45:23]

sphery:

(not saying it has to be part of the framework, itself)

[19:45:40]

sphery:

besides, who's going to send a 7... that's just crazy

[19:45:47]

wagnerrp:

ah, i dont know how far that goes

[19:45:47]

sphery:

I mean 6 is pretty darn self-explanatory

[19:46:11]

wagnerrp:

youve got things like ProgramInfo automatically doing sanity checking when you try to grab one

[19:46:14]

wagnerrp:

but beyond that...

[19:47:25]

stuartm:

in most cases you've got a firm idea of what you're expecting, length of string, size of int, range of integer values (e.g. a year should be a positive int, between 2012 and 1927), legal characters for a string, for an enum a valid set of values etc

[19:49:05]

sphery:

yeah, those "domain-level" validation checks (verifying input is within the domain of potentially valid data) could be implemented as a reusable validation framework, such that each method simply configures which checks on which data

[19:50:17]

wagnerrp:

perhaps a method that is automatically called upon processing each input to check it?

[19:50:31]

wagnerrp:

one with some basic option depending on the type, or can be overridden for more complex types

[19:51:16]

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[19:51:31]

sphery:

then "busines-level" validation checks (verifying input is valid according to the actual data requirements--i.e. yes, that's a valid recording in our database, versus a domain level check of chanid (input is an int with 10 or fewer digits) and starttime (valid date... possibly after some point in time)) could be done either in function or, better, in data objects, etc.

[19:51:42]

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[19:53:04]

sphery:

though we don't really verify--nor even properly set--data in our data objects (i.e. we allow null values where the database has not null columns, rather than just using an appropriate empty string or whatever so we don't have to do query.bindValue(":SOMETHING", value.isEmpty() ? '' : value); every time we write to the db)

[19:56:13]

dekarl:

we even don't really *use* the difference between 0 and NULL at the database level :(

[19:56:54]

wagnerrp:

thats because we set damn near everything to NOT NULL

[19:57:31]

dekarl:

that's what I was trying to say

[19:57:42]

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[20:06:03]

dekarl:

found an example. e.g. add a unique key on sourceid+frequency to dtv_multiplex, as NULL != NULL but 0 == 0 you could catch erroneous duplicate multiplexes (e.g. the MPEG + DVB si_type duplicates) while still allowing to store IPTV multiplexes which don't have any frequency in the same table

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[20:15:24]

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[20:18:07]

wagnerrp:

note, if you write up a mini-essay on jezebel that runs counter to their popular view, long because youre an intelligent person, and intelligent people are naturally verbose, you will get branded a dunce and told to get off the internet

[20:19:31]

wagnerrp:

in other words, dont spend 1000 words outlining basic political theories to explain why something is wrong

[20:19:37]

wagnerrp:

it wont make any difference

[20:21:34]

wagnerrp:

"i already understand that (except i clearly dont), but im going to completely ignore the real point youre trying to make, and call you an idiot for a separate issue youre not even arguing"

[20:25:28]

dekarl:

welcome to the real world

[20:43:11]

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[20:47:54]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: you happen to be around?

[20:49:31]

Beirdo:

yup

[20:51:01]

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[20:54:45]

wagnerrp:

sphery: do you think there would be any use in a subtitle table in the schema rewrite?

[20:55:04]

wagnerrp:

something like how the markup tables currently operate

[20:55:16]

sphery:

oh, captions/subtitles

[20:55:22]

sphery:

not "episode title" subtitles

[20:55:26]

sphery:

I was quite confused

[20:55:35]

wagnerrp:

yeah, sorry for the lack of clarification

[20:55:51]

sphery:

I don't see any real benefit to it--unless someone really wants to be able to do searches for text and jump to that point

[20:56:07]

wagnerrp:

clearly someone has a use, since digital nirvana posted that patch, and sagetv has their enterprise units that do specifically that

[20:56:17]

wagnerrp:

i just dont know if there is any utility in it for the end user

[20:56:18]

sphery:

but I think the UI for MythTV (the 10-ft UI with large fonts, no keyboard, and remote) makes that idea clumsy

[20:56:50]

sphery:

yeah, that's what I was trying to say--for mythtv, probably not so useful

[20:57:42]

sphery:

anyway, it's not going to be part of recordedfile schema, though it could be added later

[20:57:54]

sphery:

(i.e. it's just another table that would link in, so wouldn't really change any of what we have)

[20:58:23]

wagnerrp:

im actually more thinking of it as something to add "just because we can"

[20:58:48]

dekarl:

Searching in the subtitles might be nice to find dialogues in series or topics in political debates

[20:59:00]

sphery:

well, "just because we can," still involves running mythccextractor on every single recording, so it actually quite a lot of extra work/processing

[20:59:13]

sphery:

and, therefore, time when we're not idle/time when we're burning more power

[20:59:24]

sphery:

so, IMHO, it's not worth it

[20:59:24]

wagnerrp:

im guessing somewhere around 100 lines for the schema change, modifications to mythccextractor to link into the database, and housekeeper/programinfo additions to handle deletion

[20:59:35]

wagnerrp:

im not saying make it mandatory, or even default

[20:59:47]

wagnerrp:

just something available that could be interesting to play around with

[21:00:12]

sphery:

I say play on a topic branch, and if it seems worthwhile/desired/..., then maybe

[21:00:36]

sphery:

but, personally, I think if you're watching the debate, you should watch the debate so you see everything in context

[21:01:11]

sphery:

otherwise, just watch the already-changed-by-loss-of-context excerpts in the news shows :)

[21:01:45]

sphery:

that way, at least you'll be thinking what the media moguls want you to think

[21:01:55]

wagnerrp:

well theres the other side of that

[21:02:20]

wagnerrp:

sagetv clearly found a market for it, if we had it effectively built in, it may draw corporate interest

[21:03:05]

wagnerrp:

well... just something ill put in my backburner list to think about once the rest of the schema changes go in

[21:03:14]

sphery:

I don't know... I don't think it's worthwhile/useful on mythtv like UI, but others may like the idea

[21:03:49]

dekarl:

What format are UK subtitles in? DVB would be graphic which the extractor does not handle IIRC. The other would be DVB teletext (old school) which might not be signalled properly.

[21:03:57]

sphery:

I also think it will just lead to, "MythTV doesn't find <word> when I say to jump to it, but it's clearly there", and the problem is the captions were corrupt

[21:04:02]

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[21:04:09]

sphery:

plus, there's the multiple caption languages and formats

[21:04:16]

wagnerrp:

dekarl: yeah, it would only handle the closed caption text, not the graphical subtitles

[21:04:38]

wagnerrp:

and adding OCR routines is beyond my interest

[21:05:34]

sphery:

just gets complex (i.e. do we store the 608 captions or the 708 captions or both? which caption tracks and/or which languages or all?)

[21:05:58]

wagnerrp:

every and all, tagged with the type of stream

[21:06:30]

wagnerrp:

leave it up to the search algorithm for how to handle the duplicates

[21:06:43]

dekarl:

For DVB its more like "which carousel and page might the subtitles be?" and "french CC on arte is page X and german CC on arte is page Y, but german on ZDF is on Z"... without proper signalling :(

[21:06:45]

sphery:

anyway, others may think it's more useful than I do

[21:09:35]

Beirdo:

skd5aner: you rang?!

[21:10:11]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: yea, just wanted to pick back up with you on the HD-PVR Killer

[21:10:27]

Beirdo:

ah. What's up?

[21:10:31]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: it's working well for it's intentiones – I've even mapped a button on my remote to manually kick it on and off if needed...

[21:10:44]

stuartm:

dekarl: in the UK 99% of channels use DVB image subs, in fact just one that I know of still uses Teletext – always page 888

[21:10:45]

Beirdo:

I think I fixed (finally) the zero-byte script

[21:10:55]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: but it doesn't play nicely with Live TV at all

[21:11:10]

Beirdo:

it worked fine for me

[21:11:14]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: ah, maybe that'll help with the Live TV situation...

[21:11:20]

Beirdo:

I'll have to retest

[21:11:26]

skd5aner:

well, in my case, no matter how long I add a sleep, it'll always bomb out for me

[21:11:26]

dekarl:

stuartm: ohh, over here we have image subs on DVB-C/S and teletext on DVB-C/S/T

[21:11:32]

stuartm:

historically teletext subs in the UK have always been on page 888 for every channel, it's part of the broadcast rules

[21:11:38]

Beirdo:

although I still am seeing some temp files kicking around, so it seems I ain't done yet :)

[21:11:40]

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[21:11:44]

wagnerrp:

solars: any non-recording content gets played through the Video Library

[21:11:44]

solars:

hi

[21:12:07]

wagnerrp:

in 0.24 and previous, that means the 'mythvideo' plugin

[21:12:16]

stuartm:

government mandated, condition of license that disabled viewers must be able to find the subtitles

[21:12:18]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: cool – let me know if there's anything I can provide to help... right now, if mythtv selects that tuner for live tv, I have to quickly switch sources before it kicks me out of live tv by killing the hd-pvr

[21:12:19]

solars:

I'm just trying to figure out how to add the usb stick content to the library I guess

[21:12:20]

wagnerrp:

that plugin was integrated into core for upcoming 0.25

[21:12:27]

sphery:

skd5aner: it doesn't play nicely with NFS and your NFS settings, right?

[21:12:38]

wagnerrp:

add the path of your USB stick to the Videos storage group in mythtv-setup

[21:12:40]

Beirdo:

skd5aner: that's what the cancel stuff is supposed to fix

[21:12:44]

skd5aner:

sphery: well, I did switch back to synchronous

[21:12:57]

Beirdo:

you do have it hooked on the end of recordings too, right?

[21:13:02]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: which cancel stuff (sorry, dont' recall)?

[21:13:07]

solars:

ah

[21:13:10]

solars:

thank you

[21:13:11]

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[21:13:15]

wagnerrp:

when you insert the stick, go into Media Library -> Watch Videos

[21:13:16]

Beirdo:

it's part of the zero-byte script

[21:13:17]

dekarl:

our hard of hearing persons have long lists to keep :( http://www.oeglb.at/netbuilder/docs/untertitel-listetv.pdf maybe they can lobby for correct signalling ;)

[21:13:24]

sphery:

ok, thought it was just nfs stuff causing problems for you

[21:13:25]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: ah yes, I do have it on both mythtv events if that's what you're asking

[21:13:29]

wagnerrp:

and then open the 'm' menu and Scan for Changes

[21:13:38]

skd5aner:

sphery: that fixed it for recordings, but live tv still gives me fits for some reason

[21:13:42]

Beirdo:

K. There could still be bugs. I'll try to test again

[21:13:53]

skd5aner:

sphery, Beirdo: ah, I remember what I was seeing when I troubleshooted it originally...

[21:14:02]

wagnerrp:

mythtv will read through the content on the drive, and if the proper option is selected, will proceed to pull matching matadata for it using themoviedb.org and thetvdb.com

[21:14:30]

sphery:

skd5aner: if it was cancelling because of the dummy file, then perhaps your tuning timeout is too short?

[21:14:58]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: Live TV would create a dummy file, which is what the script would tack on-to originally, then when the HD-PVR tried to sync, it'd create another file... and the script would hook onto that event/file too... the problem is that the first file ALWAYS remains 0 bytes, so it always kills it off regardless of the growing second file

[21:15:09]

Beirdo:

right

[21:15:18]

skd5aner:

sphery: I set the timeout to 2 mins just to test... script still killed the HD-PVR

[21:15:23]

wagnerrp:

solars: of potential interest to you might be this script... http://mythtv.org/wiki/Mythadder.py

[21:15:24]

Beirdo:

that's why the cancel functionality is supposed to run on end of recording

[21:15:25]

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[21:15:33]

Beirdo:

now if it's borked...

[21:15:34]

sphery:

skd5aner: the tuning timeout for the hd-pvr in mythtv-setup?

[21:15:55]

skd5aner:

sphery: oh, I don't remember what that is... maybe 30 seconds?

[21:16:14]

wagnerrp:

which maintains a separate database table for archived content, merging it into the Video Library when you insert the drive it is stored on

[21:16:16]

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[21:16:53]

wagnerrp:

solars: alternatively, in 0.25, mythtv now supports pulling metadata from XBMC's .nfo XML format, as well as its own MXML metadata format

[21:17:01]

Beirdo:

skd5aner: I did have it working with livetv before, but it's quite possible it's borked now. I did update that script to try to fix that mess maybe a week ago?

[21:18:03]

solars:

wagnerrp, thanks a lot

[21:18:40]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: yea, I haven't tried to update the script or anything... think I should?

[21:19:19]

Beirdo:

yeah, worth a shot

[21:20:31]

skd5aner:

k – I'll try to find some time a little later this evening and let you know if it helps – thx

[21:20:52]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you run into any unicode issues with the logger?

[21:21:17]

Beirdo:

not that I recall

[21:21:19]

wagnerrp:

could use some comments on #10371 if youve got any

[21:22:25]

Beirdo:

it's possible that the fromLocal8Bit is being hit twice

[21:22:32]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: the page 888 is MHEG stuff, right?

[21:22:38]

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[21:24:26]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: teletext, predecessor to MHEG if you like

[21:25:09]

stuartm:

more basic, interface a bit like ncurses, original signalled in the VBI

[21:25:23]

wagnerrp:

but should be there on any british broadcast?

[21:26:42]

stuartm:

no, not any more, teletext service stopped a year or two back having been replaced by DVB subtitles and MHEG services, only one channel that I'm aware of still broadcasts teletext and that's just the subtitles not the other pages

[21:28:02]

stuartm:

the wikipedia page neatly shows both the old system and then below mentions the newer with a screenshot – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext#Level_ . . . _.2F_Hi-Text

[21:29:01]

wagnerrp:

ah, thanks

[21:29:06]

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[21:30:16]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: in GetOpt, i run "tmp = QString::fromLocal8Bit(argv[++argpos])"

[21:30:24]

wagnerrp:

to see if there is an additional argument after an option

[21:30:42]

wagnerrp:

if its another option, or if the argument does not take an option

[21:30:49]

stuartm:

a screenshot from UK mheg, taken last year – http://miffteevee.co.uk/imagebin/mheg2.png

[21:30:57]

wagnerrp:

i roll it back, and pull it again with fromLocal8Bit later a second time

[21:31:10]

stuartm:

a little stretched as an artefact of using a 16:10 screen

[21:31:15]

wagnerrp:

will fromLocal8Bit alter the source char?

[21:31:24]

Beirdo:

don't think so

[21:31:26]

wagnerrp:

is that what you mean by running it twice?

[21:31:51]

Beirdo:

no, like fromLocal8Bit(fromLocal8Bit)

[21:31:54]

Beirdo:

sorta thing

[21:32:01]

wagnerrp:

no, i dont do any such thing

[21:32:38]

Beirdo:

well, I mean by the time it is hitting the logs or whatever

[21:32:54]

Beirdo:

did the user say what their LOCALE settings were?

[21:32:58]

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[21:33:16]

wagnerrp:

no they didnt, but there was nothing in the logs to indicate mythcorecontext complaining about a bad LOCALE

[21:36:22]

wagnerrp:

actually, scratch that

[21:36:28]

wagnerrp:

i think i just found a bug in the parser

[21:36:48]

wagnerrp:

if you have an option that takes no argument, followed by an extra argument

[21:37:03]

wagnerrp:

it will error out, rather than push the argument back into the list for processing

[21:38:36]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: you seem to have a significantly better grasp on this than me, might want to check out the "UK subtitles" thread on the -users list

[21:38:51]

wagnerrp:

guy claims mythtv isnt getting subtitles since theyre marked as the wrong PID

[21:39:03]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: which network/service?

[21:39:15]

wagnerrp:

sky news

[21:39:56]

skd5aner:

anyone know who Llib is on the wiki? he made this edit to the special notes section of the release notes – just wanted someone in the know to validate it's important enough to call out there – http://www.mythtv.org/wiki?title=Release_Note . . . ;oldid=54398

[21:39:59]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: heh, ok, not one I have visible in my lineup

[21:40:18]

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[21:40:29]

wagnerrp:

not visible?

[21:40:39]

wagnerrp:

is that not something available on freeview/sat?

[21:40:49]

wagnerrp:

i.e. only accessible through "certain" methods?

[21:41:27]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: that option will only be there if the user set it there in the first place

[21:41:32]

wagnerrp:

to handle improperly encoded videos

[21:41:53]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: works fine on Freeview, uses DVB subs, I can't test Freesat right now as that card is recording

[21:42:00]

skd5aner:

true... but, is it something critical enough that if it's there after an upgrade to 0.25 that it'll cause issues and definitely requires user intervention to remove?

[21:42:23]

skd5aner:

or will it simply be ignored

[21:42:25]

stuartm:

I doubt they use DVB subs on Freeview but Teletext subs on Freesat, but it's not impossible

[21:42:28]

wagnerrp:

if its something that may cause issues, perhaps we want a schema update to strip it

[21:42:32]

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[21:42:45]

wagnerrp:

or if its no longer needed, simply remove that filter option entirely from the code so its ignored

[21:42:54]

dekarl:

stuartm: do they transmit teletext alongside dvb subs?

[21:43:21]

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[21:43:24]

stuartm:

dekarl: not normally though, they could I guess, but who would use teletext subs when dvb subs are available?

[21:43:24]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: yea, that's one reason I was asking – the other is that I don't really consider that section to be simply "informational" – more along the lines of what a user would be expected to do after an upgrade (like rescan audio devices in 0.24)

[21:44:53]

dekarl:

stuartm: everybody without OCR? I'm just wondering as he mentions it explicitely: "the problem turned out to be that the PID for the subtitles was wrong, it was set to teletext for interactive services or somethig like that"

[21:47:11]

stuartm:

dekarl: subtitles from live news are almost worthless anyway, full of typos and skipping half the dialog

[21:47:37]

stuartm:

dekarl: I doubt that the pid is wrong, but the DVB specs will show for sure

[21:47:59]

dekarl:

seeing the PMT would be interesting, but no mythutil on 0.24 so "mythutil --pidprinter <PMT PID>" is no option

[21:48:01]

stuartm:

teletext subs work just fine on ITV1 HD, identified as such

[21:48:42]

dekarl:

Hmm, maybe the starting page / subtitle page was not signalled in the PMT, I see the latter over here

[21:52:10]

stuartm:

which thread is this?

[21:53:17]

dekarl:

http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /328561.html

[21:55:16]

wagnerrp:

well this is quite a mess...

[21:55:20]

stuartm:

ah, so he's saying the pid was wrong in the stream, I misunderstood, I thought it was being said that the pid was wrong in mythtv

[21:55:56]

wagnerrp:

"The [OpenMediaVault] PHP-based user interface borrows code from FreeNAS which is in turn a m0n0wall derivate and includes code originating from pfSense."

[21:56:13]

stuartm:

right, he's set up MythTV to strip data streams, which in this case includes the teletext

[21:56:17]

wagnerrp:

... now if only pfSense took code from OpenMediaVault, the circle could be complete!

[21:56:41]

stuartm:

he needs to change it to record everything (under Recording Profiles I think?)

[21:57:50]

stuartm:

yeah, under Recording Profiles 'Hardware DVB Encoders'** > Default, second page, change it from TV Only to 'Normal'

[21:57:57]

stuartm:

dekarl, wagnerrp: ^^

[21:58:37]

stuartm:

** WTF? That's got to change for a start, Hardware DVB Encoder?? It doesn't encode anything

[21:59:18]

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[22:04:49]

dekarl:

stuartm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/855900/

[22:05:37]

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[22:14:04]

skd5aner:

hey – OT question here, but how do you change your host in IRC to something like nick@org/blah/nick rather than your IP/DNS hostname?

[22:15:12]

dekarl:

skd5aner: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks

[22:15:24]

skd5aner:

ah, thanks dekarl

[22:15:47]

skd5aner:

never really took the time to learn IRC, just the basics

[22:16:21]

dekarl:

I think its freenode customization

[22:31:13]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: i can reproduce it with a dummy mpeg and mythavtest

[22:31:30]

wagnerrp:

oddly, the cerr verbosity in the parser will print it back out just fine

[22:31:48]

wagnerrp:

it seems to be some form of disconnect when pushing it into mythtv

[22:31:48]

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[22:31:59]

Beirdo:

hmm, interesting

[22:32:31]

sphery:

yeah, you get a "free" unaffiliated cloak when you donate to freenode, or can request an unaffiliated cloak without donating

[22:34:05]

[R]:

no, you get a pdcp supporter cloak when you donate

[22:34:12]

[R]:

you get the unaffiliated if you request one w/o donating

[22:34:18]

wagnerrp:

the only conversion im doing in the parser itself is a qvariant -> qstringlist

[22:39:33]

sphery:

skd5aner: FWIW, I saw you trying to get the !url logs working in #mythtv the other day, but since that log URI is different for different channels, it's blocked in channels other than this. So, a nice easy approach is to use !notice , instead

[22:40:00]

sphery:

i.e. !url logs only works in here and only gives back:

[22:40:02]

sphery:

!url logs

[22:40:02]

MythLogBot:

logs: http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/1

[22:40:15]

skd5aner:

gotcha, I also remembered that I could just go to the logs from in here and figure it out once I got there

[22:40:24]

sphery:

hehe, yeah, that works, too

[22:40:44]

sphery:

I just let Firefox's awesome bar remember it for me

[22:41:03]

wizbit:

anybody tested torc?

[22:41:25]

sphery:

and, btw, that awesome bar is now 127% more awesome since I installed switch-to-tab no more add on

[22:41:52]

dekarl:

wizbit: might ask that in #Torc-users ;)

[22:45:03]

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[22:52:25]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: it makes no sense... http://pastebin.com/D3sz9t8a

[22:52:49]

wagnerrp:

is it possible Qt is "doing something" after we initialize some stuff?

[22:53:01]

wagnerrp:

and that "something" breaks things?

[22:54:49]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: you might have an answer to this... do you know if Qt loads some language stuff only after you create a QApplication?

[22:57:12]

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[22:57:45]

Beirdo:

when does it set the locale?

[22:57:55]

wagnerrp:

when does what?

[22:57:57]

Beirdo:

is that in the QApplication?

[22:58:03]

Beirdo:

Qt

[22:58:13]

wagnerrp:

i dont know, thats why im asking

[22:58:19]

Beirdo:

ahhh

[22:58:53]

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[23:02:14]

sphery:

wagnerrp: that would also explain http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10209 ... I was hoping that's not the case when I closed that ticket, but...

[23:02:32]

sphery:

that = "Qt loads some language stuff only after you create a QApplication"

[23:04:12]

wagnerrp:

sphery: but that wouldnt make sense why mytharchivehelper worked in 0.24 but not in 0.25

[23:04:24]

sphery:

true

[23:04:28]

wagnerrp:

unless in 0.24, it was doing command line parsing after QApplication init

[23:04:31]

wagnerrp:

ill need to check that

[23:05:01]

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[23:05:04]

sphery:

hehe, seems I haven't yet closed 10209, though

[23:05:34]

wagnerrp:

that would be a yes

[23:06:40]

wagnerrp:

now it works

[23:06:41]

sphery:

oh, and by the "explain #10209", I meant, specifically, the ~/.config/Trolltech.conf part in comment:1

[23:07:01]

sphery:

(as the mysql.txt part is because we have broken code loading mysql.txt)

[23:08:24]

sphery:

wagnerrp: maybe the parsing in archivehelper (at least for file name) was done after the qcoreapplication was created

[23:08:37]

sphery:

in 0.24, that is

[23:11:12]

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[23:14:04]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yes, it was... and moving mythcommandlineparser after the qapplication init fixes the problem

[23:14:29]

sphery:

will we need the same for mythtranscode/mythcommflag/...

[23:14:38]

sphery:

(all the --file users?)

[23:14:45]

wagnerrp:

[18:05] wagnerrp: that would be a yes ... [18:06] wagnerrp: now it works

[23:14:56]

sphery:

right, I saw that

[23:15:03]

wagnerrp:

honestly, i dont like that

[23:15:22]

wagnerrp:

when you run qapplication, it does its own parsing of that data

[23:15:35]

wagnerrp:

but more importantly, it rips out certain things that it handles internally

[23:15:37]

sphery:

the other option is to parse the bytes into a qbytearray, then do the conversion when we actually use them

[23:16:05]

wagnerrp:

i could do that

[23:16:27]

sphery:

yeah, I know we need to do mythfrontend parsing before creating qcoreapplication, but didn't know if we needed that on any of the apps that would be affected by this

[23:16:45]

sphery:

(that way we get the -geometry and such)

[23:17:02]

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[23:17:14]

wagnerrp:

10209 is the home directory

[23:17:32]

wagnerrp:

although that wouldnt be a commandlineparser issue would it...

[23:18:52]

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

[23:19:43]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: i removed some mysql5.5 patch from Gentoo/media-tv/mythtv/files in the packaging repo

[23:19:51]

sphery:

right... we have one broken line, as I mentioned, but qt was using the wrong home directory part of the time, then switching to the right one, in addition

[23:20:01]

wagnerrp:

it didnt seem to be in use anywhere, i assume you didnt need it for anything?

[23:20:10]

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[23:25:53]

wagnerrp:

sphery: so best fix, store the values as QByteArrays internally, and convert them for output once QApplication has been initialized?

[23:27:13]

sphery:

well, might not be the best, but it's the best I can think of right now :)

[23:27:34]

wagnerrp:

what about stuff like help text and default values

[23:27:38]

sphery:

I'd probably just convert them on request, though

[23:27:46]

wagnerrp:

mandate that they remain 8-byte values?

[23:28:01]

sphery:

we don't translate them, right?

[23:28:06]

wagnerrp:

not currently, no

[23:28:21]

sphery:

if not, I don't see any reason to go beyond (at most, enhanced) ascii

[23:28:30]

wagnerrp:

strict rule, no umlauts in command line arguments?

[23:28:57]

wagnerrp:

which presumably is the default state of QString before QApplication is initialized

[23:29:04]

sphery:

er, extended ascii, I guess

[23:29:42]

sphery:

yeah, not sure if QString is really meant to be used before the QCoreApplication

[23:32:09]

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[23:32:18]

drac_boy:

hi

[23:32:24]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, noters. it's all fixed in the code

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