| Saturday, February 4th, 2012, 00:10 UTC | ||
| [00:10:25] | J-e-f-f-A: | JRandolph: And thankfully, the HD-PVR has an IR blaster – so you can use that for the HD box. (because the MCE receiver/blaster only has two discreet blaster outputs) You'll need discreet blasters since they all use the same IR codes. |
| [00:19:37] | spinningcog (spinningcog!~spinningc@71-221-85-132.eugn.qwest.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [00:21:59] | spinningcog: | I'm having trouble with my mythweb installation. All I get is a 500 Error, but no errors show up in apache's logs |
| [00:22:09] | spinningcog: | I placed a phpinfo() file in the directory, and navigated to it, and it properly shows all the relevant PHP information |
| [00:22:24] | spinningcog: | permisions on the /var/www/mythweb files are all www-data: www-data |
| [00:22:28] | clever: | spinningcog: are you using cgi, fastcgi, or mod_php? |
| [00:22:34] | spinningcog: | mod_php |
| [00:22:59] | clever: | spinningcog: have you checked syslog yet? |
| [00:25:26] | spinningcog: | I hadn't... I have the messages: init: mythtv-backend main process (2392) terminated with status 232 |
| [00:25:26] | spinningcog: | [ 338.876812] init: mythtv-backend respawning too fast, stopped |
| [00:25:54] | wagnerrp: | well thats omenous |
| [00:25:54] | spinningcog: | but the myth backend process is running (confirmed with ps aux |grep myth) |
| [00:26:17] | clever: | spinningcog: my only guess left then is to strace the apache process's and catch the error before it gets lost |
| [00:26:26] | clever: | strace -s 6000 -p PID_GOES_HERE |
| [00:26:31] | wagnerrp: | your backend is being started by your terminal manager? |
| [00:27:45] | spinningcog: | I think I set the backend to be started up by the session manager |
| [00:29:09] | wagnerrp: | well thats far far worse |
| [00:29:26] | wagnerrp: | since your XDM instance isnt going to do jack until you log in |
| [00:29:40] | wagnerrp: | and there is exactly zero reason you would want your mythbackend dependent on X |
| [00:30:57] | spinningcog: | good point. |
| [00:32:32] | sphery: | clever: have you ever worked tech support? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rksCTVFtjM4#t=93s ;) |
| [00:33:14] | J-e-f-f-A: | JRandolph: I drew you a picture... http://jartz.gotdns.com:8008/files/mythtv/JRandolph_DirecTV.jpg Does that make it clear for ya? |
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| [00:33:55] | clever: | sphery: lol :) |
| [00:34:03] | sphery: | J-e-f-f-A: hehe, we need pictures like that on the wiki |
| [00:34:16] | clever: | sphery: strace is always what i use when i cant find the logs |
| [00:34:30] | spinningcog: | lol |
| [00:34:32] | sphery: | yeah, without logs it would be difficult to figure out what's gonig on |
| [00:34:41] | spinningcog: | strace only does system calls though, right? |
| [00:34:54] | clever: | spinningcog: yeah, but the only way to write to a log file is thru a syscall |
| [00:34:59] | J-e-f-f-A: | sphery: Hehehe... Yeah, I'm a 'visual' guy, so I like to explain things with pictures. ;-) |
| [00:35:03] | spinningcog: | you can attach gdb to a running process, I imagine that would be a better way to go. |
| [00:35:13] | clever: | its usualy writing to a log you dont know about, and strace will reveal it |
| [00:35:28] | spinningcog: | but I don't see any easy way to know which apache process to monitor |
| [00:35:34] | spinningcog: | that's a good point |
| [00:35:36] | clever: | yeah, thats the hard part |
| [00:35:43] | clever: | simple answer, trace em all! |
| [00:35:49] | spinningcog: | I turned up apache's logging to debug, but that didn't do squat for me. |
| [00:35:52] | clever: | strace -s 5000 -p 123 -p 124 -p 125 -p 126 |
| [00:35:57] | sphery: | I'm very much not a visual learner--which makes it hard for me to come up with nice visual descriptions like that |
| [00:36:32] | sphery: | our wiki is far too heavily biased toward the verbal learners, now, so we need more visual descriptions |
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| [00:39:18] | spinningcog: | Database error was: |
| [00:39:24] | spinningcog: | MySQL server has gone away |
| [00:40:10] | clever: | spinningcog: might want to double-check that the mysql config for mythweb is valid |
| [00:44:27] | spinningcog: | Yeah, I think that's it – I think this is the old password from before I reinstalled |
| [00:44:31] | spinningcog: | where is the new password held? |
| [00:45:14] | clever: | you might be able to find it in ~/.mythtv/config.xml |
| [00:45:43] | spinningcog: | hmm, that seems to agree with the password in the apache config |
| [00:46:58] | spinningcog: | mysql -u mythtv -p mythconverg |
| [00:46:59] | spinningcog: | should be the command to log into the mysql database/test the server |
| [00:47:01] | spinningcog: | right? |
| [00:47:26] | clever: | mysql -u USER -p -h HOST |
| [00:48:27] | spinningcog: | hmm, that worked fine |
| [00:48:34] | spinningcog: | must be something else. |
| [00:48:46] | spinningcog: | I've got to go for now, I'll be back in an hour or so. |
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| [01:04:48] | Technophil: | Can a dev tell me if there is any reason one could not transcode a frontend screen output to a multicast or unicast stream using vlc to do this? Seems to me the transcode would need to match the HD to work properly. |
| [01:06:32] | Technophil: | For example do this on a noisy box somewhere and play it simultaneously on multiple quieter frontends, doing the control over WiFi with android. |
| [01:07:11] | wagnerrp: | why would you want to? |
| [01:07:21] | wagnerrp: | first, it means you only have one display, period |
| [01:07:38] | Technophil: | To get multi room clones of the same display. |
| [01:07:48] | Technophil: | Would not prevent other frontends running. |
| [01:07:51] | wagnerrp: | second, youre going to consume most of a gigabit network trying to handle that kind of data throughput |
| [01:08:01] | Technophil: | cost accepted. |
| [01:08:20] | wagnerrp: | why would your frontend have to be a noisy box? |
| [01:08:43] | Technophil: | An alternative approach os to send a frontend display out to a DVB-T modulator, cost circa $1500. |
| [01:09:26] | Technophil: | simultanoues clones is the goal, agreed quiet frontends can be solved many other ways. |
| [01:09:59] | wagnerrp: | simultaneous output on multiple displays just isnt a goal of this project |
| [01:10:57] | wagnerrp: | the whole point is that you have independent frontends, so you dont have to be watching what someone else is watching in another room |
| [01:11:13] | wagnerrp: | if you want to be able to move from room to room, frontend to frontend, seamlessly |
| [01:11:31] | Technophil: | I respect there is minimal user demand. Just wanted to know. In my case I want to roam in the house from room to room while keeping the same thing going seamlessly. |
| [01:11:37] | wagnerrp: | there would be better ways to do that, such as being able to store off a livetv or playback session, and load it on another frontend |
| [01:12:20] | Technophil: | The best one can currently do is bookmark a place, go to another room and open the bookmark, its user intensive. |
| [01:12:59] | wagnerrp: | right, but that basic method would be the ideal way to do it within the confines of mythtv |
| [01:13:07] | wagnerrp: | its just a function of adding to the UI to make it easier |
| [01:13:23] | wagnerrp: | i.e. be able to "spy" on what other frontends are doing, and snag their current state |
| [01:13:35] | wagnerrp: | or being able to push your state to a remote frontend, and drop yourself back to the main menu |
| [01:14:08] | wagnerrp: | you could even get really fancy like linuxmce did |
| [01:14:17] | Technophil: | yes spying on a frontend as you put it would be fine, even better of there could be multiple spys?! |
| [01:14:33] | wagnerrp: | and tie your 'presence' to a bluetooth receiver that tracked your cellphone |
| [01:14:45] | wagnerrp: | and cycled your playback to the nearest frontend |
| [01:14:49] | sphery: | that was pluto |
| [01:15:06] | wagnerrp: | that was something pluto did that never made it into the free lmce? |
| [01:15:08] | sphery: | (which became linuxmce when linuxmce tried to make pluto work on more hardware :) |
| [01:15:25] | sphery: | I think it was in LMCE, but it happened before LMCE |
| [01:16:13] | Technophil: | Yes I am aware of that, when I last looked at them they were miles behind, and while turning on and off frontends as you walk around I'd be happy with turning on a spy device when it was appropriate. |
| [01:16:39] | wagnerrp: | Technophil: by "spy" i really just meant a list of "this frontend is watching that show" |
| [01:16:59] | wagnerrp: | which an option to begin playback at the same point, or "steal" its live tv session |
| [01:17:43] | Technophil: | Is that option currently available somehow? |
| [01:18:04] | wagnerrp: | no, but to someone who knew their way around the proper subsystems, it probably wouldnt be that hard to implement |
| [01:18:22] | wagnerrp: | however running multiple frontends in perfect lock-step is _very_ difficult |
| [01:18:33] | Technophil: | What would be nice might be to have a clone fronend that tells the backend to send to it what its sending to the master frontend, if that makes sense? |
| [01:18:41] | wagnerrp: | especially if youve got more than one frontend within earshot |
| [01:19:21] | Technophil: | The potential issues I am not concerned about, I think they can be managed. |
| [01:19:46] | wagnerrp: | cant you just buy a HDMI splitter, and a bunch of long cables? |
| [01:19:52] | wagnerrp: | why does this have to be done over IP? |
| [01:20:02] | Technophil: | Sorry, I mean't the potential ECHO issues I am not concerned about, I think they can be managed. |
| [01:20:25] | sphery: | more than echo, the problem becomes remote syncrhonization of output |
| [01:20:27] | Technophil: | Doesn;t have to be over IP, I mentioned the modulator solution above. |
| [01:20:32] | sphery: | i.e. a/v sync drifts independently |
| [01:20:48] | sphery: | there are whole protocols dedicated to trying to manage that for sync'ing playback on multiple devices |
| [01:20:55] | wagnerrp: | HDMI could be done much cheaper than a DVB modulator |
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| [01:21:38] | wagnerrp: | unless youre an evil genius, and want to take up bellard's hack of a DVB modulator built into the red VGA signal on his radeon 9250 |
| [01:22:21] | wagnerrp: | lets face it, you cant come up with crazy sh** like that without being benignly evil |
| [01:22:40] | Technophil: | not familiar with that approach. URL? |
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| [01:22:58] | wagnerrp: | http://bellard.org/dvbt/ |
| [01:23:23] | Technophil: | Its good and helpful to discuss with you, perhaps you are correct the cheapest and best approach is HDMI, especially if audio is combined |
| [01:23:56] | Technophil: | Some All displays would need HDMI.... but may still be, as you say, the best option. |
| [01:24:29] | Technophil: | Actually FWIW I also considered an HDMI splitter and using HDMI to 2xCAT5 to HDMI |
| [01:24:47] | wagnerrp: | i dont understand those HDMI-to-CAT5 devices |
| [01:25:07] | wagnerrp: | you're just converting from one twisted pair medium to another twisted pair medium |
| [01:25:27] | Technophil: | Exactly, the benefit is you get much longer distances and lower cable costs. |
| [01:25:32] | wagnerrp: | and dropping out a number of auxiliary lines in the process |
| [01:25:46] | sphery: | and losing the vast majority of the available bandwidth, too |
| [01:25:57] | wagnerrp: | unless they're cranking up the signal voltage in the process, you shouldnt get any longer distance out of it |
| [01:26:09] | wagnerrp: | sphery: its not ethernet, it just uses CAT5 cabling |
| [01:26:14] | Technophil: | 15m HDMI vs 150–300m |
| [01:26:18] | wagnerrp: | although more likely it would require CAT6 |
| [01:26:19] | sphery: | ohh |
| [01:26:29] | wagnerrp: | since CAT5 is only rated for 100MHz |
| [01:26:33] | Technophil: | 5E or 6 |
| [01:26:35] | wagnerrp: | and HDMI would require much higher than that |
| [01:26:44] | sphery: | was just thinking that even cat6 is rated for much lower than the 10.2Gbps of HDMI |
| [01:26:45] | wagnerrp: | 5E is 350MHz, 6 is 550MHz |
| [01:27:13] | wagnerrp: | sphery: actually, 10GbEC is rated for 100m on CAT6 |
| [01:27:16] | Technophil: | You'll perhaps know HDMI is distance limited... |
| [01:27:51] | wagnerrp: | HDMI is not distance limited, because for all intents and purposes, its uni-directional |
| [01:27:58] | sphery: | ah, ok |
| [01:28:07] | wagnerrp: | you dont have the return timeout issues that limit USB to 5m |
| [01:28:45] | wagnerrp: | the only limiting factor i can think of for HDMI cabling versus CAT6 cabling is that CAT6 is traditionally much thicker |
| [01:28:53] | wagnerrp: | meaning you can run much higher voltage and amperage across it |
| [01:29:07] | wagnerrp: | lower losses, lower noise issues |
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| [01:34:21] | Technophil: | sorry I've probably missed your last few posts, damned pigin crashed, of all the times to pick... |
| [01:34:29] | wagnerrp: | !url logs |
| [01:34:29] | MythLogBot: | logs: http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/1 |
| [01:35:23] | Technophil: | LOL You guys are so cool! |
| [01:35:27] | Technophil: | THanks |
| [01:36:36] | Technophil: | Looks like the bellard approach would need some serious revision, obviously a good idea. |
| [01:37:04] | wagnerrp: | it would need some serious implementation from scratch |
| [01:37:11] | wagnerrp: | it was nothing more than a proof-of-concempt |
| [01:37:13] | wagnerrp: | concept |
| [01:39:28] | Technophil: | http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_maximum . . . r_HDMI_cable |
| [01:40:18] | Technophil: | I have a colleague who has doena 15m HDMI run, he found it was flakey, he eventually changed things to avoid it. |
| [01:40:36] | wagnerrp: | the specification only covers cables up to 50ft |
| [01:40:51] | wagnerrp: | that doesnt mean they cant go further |
| [01:40:52] | Technophil: | He incorporated a fancy 15m run with an amplifier |
| [01:41:17] | wagnerrp: | im saying its not like USB, where the spec actually mandates a maximum length due to wire speed |
| [01:41:36] | Technophil: | Just comes down to the most economic way to achieve what I want reliably. |
| [01:43:50] | Technophil: | Its helpful to know if myth is close to being helpful in this direction or not, from what you are saying its probably not, so I need to think in terms of working something out that splits the output of a frontend, either VGA or HDMI. |
| [01:44:27] | Technophil: | The reason for looking to multicast is the CAT cables are already there.... as are RF cables available. HDMI is not. |
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| [01:45:00] | Technophil: | Also the LAN is frequently dormant / low traffic levels otherwise. |
| [01:45:12] | wagnerrp: | the problem with multicast is that 1920x1080p60 is 3Gbps |
| [01:45:45] | wagnerrp: | even if you restrict yourself to YUV 1920x1080p24, thats still around 700Mbps |
| [01:46:04] | wagnerrp: | and unless youre buying expensive network gear, there is no such thing as multicast |
| [01:46:07] | wagnerrp: | its all broadcast |
| [01:46:09] | Technophil: | Going to show my ignorance here, I am assuming a backend sends that to a frontend now in a unicast way. |
| [01:46:24] | wagnerrp: | the backend sends no such thing |
| [01:46:34] | wagnerrp: | it sends the compressed video, at 10–30Mbps |
| [01:46:56] | wagnerrp: | the frontend decodes the video, composites it with its own UI, and sends that to the display |
| [01:47:07] | wagnerrp: | youre talking about instead of sending it to the display, broadcasting that over the network |
| [01:47:36] | Technophil: | Can you help me understand why that compressed video could not be sent to several IP's? |
| [01:47:51] | wagnerrp: | which means consuming a massive amount of bandwidth, or trying to do real time compression of the video feed |
| [01:47:54] | Technophil: | Part of the answeer is probably that its split |
| [01:48:20] | wagnerrp: | thats mythtvs default behavior, to send the compressed video to any number of frontends that want it |
| [01:48:21] | Technophil: | My VLC proposition included recompressing the display |
| [01:48:50] | wagnerrp: | but youre talking about sending the video composited with the UI, such that they are all showing the exact same thing |
| [01:48:54] | Technophil: | and multicasting that. I totally agree one can't multicast raw video. |
| [01:49:09] | Technophil: | yes |
| [01:49:18] | wagnerrp: | but even if you want to do multicasting, youre still going to have those sync issues |
| [01:49:29] | wagnerrp: | multicast just means the data is being sent everywhere |
| [01:49:35] | Technophil: | I believe they'd be acceptable. |
| [01:49:53] | wagnerrp: | it has no guaranteed the software at each endpoint is going to be precisely synchronized with each other |
| [01:50:06] | Technophil: | What's the worst sync scenario we're talking about here? A few seconds? |
| [01:50:14] | wagnerrp: | sure |
| [01:50:23] | Technophil: | that would be fine. |
| [01:50:29] | Technophil: | No requirement for exact syncing. |
| [01:50:52] | wagnerrp: | but then i dont understand why you would care for linked playback without wanting exact syncing |
| [01:50:53] | Technophil: | Also easy to skip back 5–15 secs with a remote as required as one might do in any event. |
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| [01:51:57] | Technophil: | because once going it needs no further user input. |
| [01:52:05] | wagnerrp: | if playback is for you personally, then theres no reason you couldnt pull a paused session from the remote frontend with a UI as you move around |
| [01:52:49] | jello: | hello, my cable provider provides the same channel in SD & HD. How do I tell MythTV to always record from the HD version? |
| [01:53:00] | Technophil: | I do that now, it requires user input in each room. If one is going between several rooms I just want it to work. |
| [01:53:08] | wagnerrp: | mark the SD version as hidden in the channel editor |
| [01:53:16] | sphery: | jello: for always, delete the SDTV version of the channel or hide it |
| [01:53:33] | wagnerrp: | better to hide it, so it stays hidden if you scan for channels again |
| [01:53:53] | jello: | okay, that was easy :) |
| [01:53:57] | sphery: | unless it's a channel on an analog input, in which case deleting it is fine |
| [01:54:00] | sphery: | (or better) |
| [01:54:07] | jello: | DVB |
| [01:54:22] | sphery: | yeah, for dvb, hide it |
| [01:54:47] | sphery: | and you may want to configure your xmltv to not grab listings for it if you're using xmltv instead of eit |
| [01:55:01] | sphery: | but that's dependent on your xmltv grabber |
| [01:55:10] | sphery: | for some it's helpful, for others, doesn't matter |
| [01:55:19] | jello: | next question: I have a WinTV-HVR 2250 card. it is supposed to have two tuners, but i can't get the second to work. any ideas? |
| [01:55:26] | jello: | sphery: schedules-direct |
| [01:55:26] | sphery: | ah, so it's not DVB |
| [01:55:28] | sphery: | it's ATSC |
| [01:55:30] | sphery: | or QAM |
| [01:55:42] | jello: | yeah |
| [01:55:45] | sphery: | jello: configure the card as 2 separate MythTV Capture Cards |
| [01:55:58] | sphery: | and since it is Schedules Direct, you probably do want to remove the channel from your lineup |
| [01:56:04] | sphery: | (your Schedules Direct lineup, that is) |
| [01:56:28] | sphery: | will prevent it from getting listings, and if there are no listings, you won't record from it, even if the channel accidentally becomes not hidden |
| [01:56:38] | jello: | okay |
| [01:57:06] | Technophil: | wagnerrp: The sync issue you refer to I think is simply the difference between the position one client achieves in the stream as it starts up vs the other one. If the clients were same kit then the sync difference should be minimal as they will load the feed much the same. THere might be minimal lag due to different network distances or to different hardware throughput, e.g. slow vs fast cpu. All this would be ok. |
| [01:57:28] | sphery: | so, basically, although the 2250 is one physical capture card, it's configured the same as 2 HVR-1250's in MythTV--i.e. just create a new capture card in mythtv-setup for /dev/dvb/adapter1 |
| [01:57:40] | sphery: | (where the first would be /dev/dvb/adapter0)\ |
| [01:57:48] | jello: | sphery: okay, lemme try that |
| [01:58:26] | Technophil: | (assuming I could persuade it to function in such a way) |
| [01:58:26] | jello: | sphery: would that be /dev/dvb/adapter1/frontend0 ? |
| [01:58:43] | sphery: | yeah |
| [02:00:15] | jello: | sphery: do i need to do anything in the "input connections"? |
| [02:00:32] | jello: | do i need another video source too? |
| [02:00:50] | wagnerrp: | only if you want to do analog as well |
| [02:00:52] | sphery: | only one video source |
| [02:01:17] | sphery: | you need to connect the same video source to the new capture card in input connections |
| [02:01:29] | jello: | i just want to be able to record one channel while watching a different one |
| [02:01:32] | wagnerrp: | one video source is shared among all tuners that access the exact same lineup of channels |
| [02:01:42] | ** jello makes it so... ** | |
| [02:01:59] | sphery: | and, yeah, if you also want to do analog, you'll create a 3rd and 4th capture card (both MPEG Encoder types) and then make sure you set them up in the same input group as the corresponding digital tuner |
| [02:02:04] | wagnerrp: | technically, youre recording two channels, and watching one recording in near-real-time |
| [02:02:53] | jello: | wagnerrp: details, details.... |
| [02:03:23] | wagnerrp: | well the datails are important, its not like the live "recording" sits in a temporary memory buffer |
| [02:03:31] | jello: | true |
| [02:03:52] | wagnerrp: | it goes straight to disk, and stays there for a day, unless it needs to be deleted earlier to make more room |
| [02:04:16] | sphery: | besides, until we can get you to think of everything as a recording (and, eventually, to stop using Live TV), the brainwashing is not yet complete |
| [02:04:16] | jello: | another question: does mythtv automatically transcode recorded programs to save space on my disk? |
| [02:04:24] | wagnerrp: | nope |
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| [02:04:26] | sphery: | (and you're working way too hard to watch TV) |
| [02:04:30] | wagnerrp: | it can, but you really dont want to bother |
| [02:04:47] | wagnerrp: | if anything, spend a couple minutes in the cutlist editor |
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| [02:05:11] | wagnerrp: | and run a 'lossless transcoding', which just clips the commercials, fixes a couple of frames, and copies the rest of the data directly |
| [02:05:13] | sphery: | space is cheap and transcoding is dangerous and keeps your computer from idling (= lots of power usage/electricity cost) |
| [02:05:33] | sphery: | or fails, creates a recording with no audio, or a recording with out-of-sync audio |
| [02:05:38] | wagnerrp: | well... space will be cheap as soon as the hard drive prices go back to normal anyway |
| [02:05:47] | sphery: | it's still actually cheap |
| [02:05:51] | sphery: | just not as cheap as it was |
| [02:06:03] | sphery: | still lower than the prices I paid for some of my initial 1 and 1.5TB HDDs |
| [02:06:13] | sphery: | (lower in terms of cost/GB) |
| [02:06:40] | sphery: | but the 2TB HDDs were in the heyday of HDD cheapity |
| [02:07:16] | wagnerrp: | jello: basically, reserve transcoding for when you actually need to do it for device compatibility |
| [02:07:22] | wagnerrp: | i.e. playback on a tablet or phone |
| [02:07:35] | ** sphery is still operating in "reduced storage space" mode because of a 1.5TB HDD failure and the hope to wait to replace it until HDD prices are back down to the $70/2TB range ** | |
| [02:08:04] | sphery: | agreed... best (only good?) reason to transcode is for device compatiblity requirements |
| [02:08:19] | jello: | okay, time to give it a whirl |
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| [02:12:00] | jello: | hmm, that didn't work so well |
| [02:12:07] | jello: | the X server crashed |
| [02:12:30] | likwid--_: | wagnerr, did you say skiplists go with mythvidexport and will be honored when watching in mythvideo? (.24.1fixes) |
| [02:12:32] | wagnerrp: | im betting XvMC issues |
| [02:12:56] | wagnerrp: | if you specify the proper command line argument, i believe so |
| [02:13:04] | wagnerrp: | to be honest, ive never actually tested it |
| [02:13:11] | likwid--_: | cos you use the cutlist editor |
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| [02:13:18] | sphery: | jello: mythfrontend Utilites/Setup|Setup|TV Settings|Playback, 3rd screen, change CPU+ to Slim |
| [02:13:36] | wagnerrp: | i always transcode the commercials out before moving to mythvideo |
| [02:13:39] | jello: | that's a mouthful |
| [02:15:09] | jello: | sphery: found it and made the change. what does it do? |
| [02:15:35] | sphery: | disables using XvMC, which doesn't work with modern distros/X/video drivers :) |
| [02:15:46] | sphery: | XvMC is terrible and you dont' want to use it, anyway |
| [02:15:53] | sphery: | what video card do you have? |
| [02:16:32] | sphery: | and I'm assuming when you changed it, it was on CPU+, right? |
| [02:17:45] | jello: | sphery: yes, i'm using the built-in intel HD3000 |
| [02:18:03] | sphery: | yeah, you probably want Slim, then |
| [02:18:10] | wagnerrp: | cant say much about the graphics... but at least its a decent processor, and not ATI |
| [02:18:21] | sphery: | could try Normal or High Quality, too, then drop back to whichever one works best for you |
| [02:18:35] | sphery: | Normal and HQ are more processor intensive, but may look better |
| [02:18:35] | jello: | sphery: so, why is CPU+ the default? |
| [02:18:42] | sphery: | it's not, Normal is |
| [02:18:56] | jello: | so how did i end up with CPU+? |
| [02:19:06] | wagnerrp: | a bug in the code makes it otherwise |
| [02:19:17] | sphery: | but a bug that exists in old, dead, Qt-based settings code since the Qt4 port causes the non-default CPU+ to be selected when you first run mythfrontend |
| [02:19:39] | sphery: | i.e. it used to work on Qt3, but it doesn't work, now, in Qt4 |
| [02:19:49] | jello: | ahhh |
| [02:20:00] | sphery: | but since we've removed CPU+, CPU++, and CPU-- playback profile groups, starting in 0.25, the bug won't be an issue |
| [02:20:13] | sphery: | (for people who start new mythtv systems with 0.25 and above :) |
| [02:20:20] | sphery: | once released, that is |
| [02:20:38] | jello: | gotcha |
| [02:21:06] | jello: | i started with 0.24 and then moved to a later version |
| [02:22:11] | ** jello is going to try HQ, if I disappear it didn't work... ** | |
| [02:22:47] | jello: | yay, WorksForMe <tm> |
| [02:23:11] | sphery: | hehe |
| [02:23:38] | jello: | wagnerrp, sphery: thanks for all the help! Any suggestions for a good remote to use? RF preferred :) |
| [02:24:15] | sphery: | hehe, you can have a good remote or an RF remote |
| [02:24:16] | jello: | the capture card came with one, which i may try |
| [02:24:35] | jello: | sphery: that bad huh? |
| [02:24:39] | ** sphery has about the only RF remote that works, and it's not a good one ** | |
| [02:25:01] | sphery: | ATI Remote Wonder/X10 Lola/nvidia <whatever> is the one that works |
| [02:25:10] | sphery: | but the buttons on it are annoying |
| [02:25:15] | Technophil: | jello: there's also wifi options like mydroid |
| [02:25:29] | Technophil: | sorry mythdroid |
| [02:25:33] | jello: | Technophil: hmm, i have a droid |
| [02:25:36] | sphery: | squishy feel, don't always register, and sucks the batteries dry (I'm constantly recharging mine--about once a month) |
| [02:25:50] | wagnerrp: | oh no! once a month! |
| [02:26:03] | wagnerrp: | mine dies after less than a week |
| [02:26:15] | sphery: | a good IR remote is probably best for when you're watching TV--gives you that "telepathic" remote control (i.e. can do what you want without looking away from the screen) |
| [02:26:20] | Technophil: | also mythmote |
| [02:26:40] | sphery: | but a mythdroid or mythmote type thing could stand in for the remote when you're not in line of sight with the receiver |
| [02:26:49] | sphery: | (i.e. playing music, but in the other room or something) |
| [02:26:54] | Technophil: | mythmote is simpler and possibly more reliable |
| [02:26:57] | sphery: | wagnerrp: you have an MCE remote? |
| [02:26:59] | ** jello wonders what to do with the green windows button on the remote... ** | |
| [02:27:07] | sphery: | once a week would be awful |
| [02:27:09] | wagnerrp: | i have an MCE receiver, but i dont use the remote |
| [02:27:29] | sphery: | jello: many pop the button off and put in their own "logos" |
| [02:27:30] | wagnerrp: | the harmony 880s might last a few days on a charge |
| [02:27:34] | sphery: | s/many/some |
| [02:27:49] | wagnerrp: | but who cares when you just leave the charger on the table, and place the remote on it when not in use |
| [02:27:53] | sphery: | ah, yeah, harmony 880s are the broken, "smart remote" design |
| [02:28:07] | sphery: | remotes should be dumb and the computer that receives the message should be smart :) |
| [02:28:21] | wagnerrp: | assuming your computer is managing all your devices for you |
| [02:28:30] | sphery: | yes |
| [02:28:31] | wagnerrp: | with CEC, that could become a possibility |
| [02:28:37] | sphery: | or with LIRC |
| [02:28:39] | sphery: | :) |
| [02:28:39] | jello: | how do i get my computer to manage my a/v receiver? |
| [02:28:47] | sphery: | (i.e. lirc transmitter controlling other devices) |
| [02:28:48] | wagnerrp: | since in theory, every device in the link can communicate directly to every other device in the link |
| [02:29:14] | skd5aner: | yea, if said devices were CEC capable |
| [02:29:15] | Technophil: | depends if your a/v receiver is willing to be managed! ie what inputs does it have? |
| [02:29:31] | jello: | Technophil: what should i look for? |
| [02:29:31] | sphery: | or LIRC |
| [02:29:33] | sphery: | :) |
| [02:29:50] | sphery: | (you can set up a lirc transmitter and have the computer send messages to the receiver, too) |
| [02:29:58] | skd5aner: | I've always wanted serial control of some of my devices (TV and Receiver), but mythtv doesn't natively support it |
| [02:30:16] | jello: | it's a denon avr-1312 |
| [02:30:22] | sphery: | I have the serial protocol specs for my TV, but never got around to writing the code to support it |
| [02:31:01] | jello: | hmm, no serial port on this one |
| [02:31:08] | sphery: | especially since I never really do anything on the TV other than power on/off or switch to other inputs, and it's quicker/easier to just use the tv remote for that |
| [02:31:26] | sphery: | (and I've had the same batteries in my TV remote since I got my TV in Oct 2006) |
| [02:31:38] | Technophil: | well...as I see it the options are IR, serial, Ethernet, and maybe HDMI-CEC |
| [02:32:02] | jello: | no serial or ethernet |
| [02:32:04] | Technophil: | as per sphery IR is the most utilised I think. |
| [02:32:08] | jello: | what is hdmi-cec? |
| [02:32:16] | ** jello asks wikipedia ** | |
| [02:32:25] | wagnerrp: | its a serial link using one of the HDMI pins |
| [02:32:47] | wagnerrp: | with a somewhat standardized command set |
| [02:33:05] | Technophil: | its really cool technology that uses the TV remote to control desireably everything, however its still a work in progress. |
| [02:33:28] | clever: | for me, HDMI-CEC turns the ps3 on every time i dont want it on, lol |
| [02:33:50] | clever: | but it also turns the tv on and switches to the right input, when the ps3 comes on |
| [02:34:08] | sphery: | so it's a win some, lose some thing? |
| [02:34:23] | Technophil: | *** compares the perspectives of a dev's answer with a users answer! |
| [02:34:32] | clever: | i just need to rewirte it, the STB and PS3 share an hdmi input thru a dumb hdmi switch |
| [02:34:43] | likwid--_: | yea. bravia-sync is sony's name for it. b-ray gets turrned on, tv comes on to the right input |
| [02:34:50] | clever: | the tv isnt aware of the switch box, and turns on any cec capable device |
| [02:35:18] | clever: | the tv cant see the switchbox, and the CEC is linked on all 4 inputs, so it often does things for a device on the inactive input |
| [02:35:47] | wagnerrp: | by linked, he means physically linked |
| [02:35:49] | Technophil: | CEC is also something that nvidia unfortunately seemed to miss from their radar... |
| [02:35:55] | wagnerrp: | even when the switch is not connected to that port |
| [02:36:15] | wagnerrp: | s/nvidia/nvidia\/intel\/amd/ |
| [02:36:32] | Technophil: | Fair call |
| [02:36:35] | clever: | Technophil: ive seen some usb devices that just have a mini-b on the side and 2 HDMI plugs, to let you snoop/inject onto the cec bus |
| [02:37:19] | Technophil: | I think someone, the clever video dev...has coded this up? |
| [02:37:29] | Technophil: | and got it working |
| [02:38:26] | Technophil: | I think its coming on 0.25 |
| [02:39:33] | jello: | hmm, http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/cecd/ |
| [02:39:49] | clever: | there, the 'smart' PS3 now has its own input on the tv |
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| [02:40:06] | clever: | the 'dumb' dvd player and STB share the switch box, they dont do very much with cec |
| [02:41:32] | clever: | what the..., did the useless switch box just change inputs on its own?? |
| [02:41:54] | jello: | http://www.pulse-eight.com/store/products/104 . . . adapter.aspx |
| [02:42:21] | clever: | ok, that wont work |
| [02:42:33] | Technophil: | mark kendall I think did the initial coding. |
| [02:42:49] | clever: | seems bravia-sync goes nuts when the sound system is on the same psysical port as the digital cable box |
| [02:42:52] | jello: | clever: is that what you meant? |
| [02:43:15] | clever: | jello: thats probly what i was refering to |
| [02:44:00] | clever: | yeah, looks the same |
| [02:44:30] | Technophil: | https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/38dbd . . . e54454a3073e |
| [02:46:51] | jello: | Technophil: so is this a driver problem or a hardware problem that the GPU doesn't do CEC? |
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| [02:48:17] | Technophil: | I believe its a hardware problem that the videocard manufacturers left the hardware components out |
| [02:48:26] | skd5aner: | sphery: ah, wish you would have wrote support :) |
| [02:48:30] | clever: | wagnerrp: well, thats strange |
| [02:48:42] | clever: | wagnerrp: the 'useless' hdmi switch box CAN change its active input! |
| [02:48:50] | clever: | but only when i dont want it do, lol |
| [02:48:51] | Technophil: | If it was a software problem I expect mark kendall would have addressed it at that level. |
| [02:49:25] | skd5aner: | sphery: both my receiver and TV have serial control commands – I thougth about seeing if there was anyway I could hack together a network socket --> serial translator or something |
| [02:49:40] | wagnerrp: | if it were a software problem, it would still have to be fixed upstream by adding support to the drivers |
| [02:49:42] | Technophil: | Although I think the drivers are closed source (nvidia anyway) |
| [02:49:54] | wagnerrp: | but the CEC pin simply isnt connected anywhere |
| [02:50:19] | clever: | wagnerrp: from what ive heard recently, the CEC pin is also used to negotiate HDMI encryption |
| [02:50:22] | Technophil: | Have they not started connecting it yet either? |
| [02:50:31] | clever: | if the card supports encryption, then the CEC pin MUST be connected somewhere |
| [02:50:42] | wagnerrp: | that cant possibly be true |
| [02:50:58] | wagnerrp: | because HDCP works just fine over DVI, which doesnt have the additional CEC pin |
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| [02:51:35] | clever: | wagnerrp: the article i read also says that EDID is done iver the CEC pin, i believe |
| [02:51:55] | Technophil: | Again unlikely |
| [02:51:57] | wagnerrp: | again, DVI doesnt have that pin |
| [02:51:57] | skd5aner: | well, surely it isn't a unique pin is it? |
| [02:52:06] | wagnerrp: | yes, it is |
| [02:52:15] | skd5aner: | is it the same as the HDMI+ethernet? |
| [02:52:18] | clever: | dvi could simply call it something else, or i could be wrong |
| [02:52:20] | wagnerrp: | it is a dedicated serial channel, physically interconnected through each device |
| [02:52:41] | skd5aner: | the cable itself is a special cable? |
| [02:52:46] | wagnerrp: | there is no repeating happening, its a single wire bus |
| [02:52:49] | skd5aner: | or a standard HDMI 1.4 cable? |
| [02:53:12] | wagnerrp: | on all HDMI cable |
| [02:53:38] | clever: | hmmm, pin 13 on HDMI is CEC |
| [02:53:44] | Technophil: | Still amazes me that NVIDIA has not seen the user need for it....! |
| [02:54:01] | clever: | ahh, i'm confusing CEC with the i2c bus, pins 15/16 |
| [02:54:14] | wagnerrp: | the i2c bus is shared between HDMI and DVI |
| [02:54:17] | clever: | its the i2c bus, pins 15/16 used for HDCP |
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| [03:51:46] | Technophil: | wagnerrp: would it be possible to tell a backend to send a frontend selected stream simultaneously to a few other named ip addresses? Maybe to play on other frontends or alternatively to just play on a media player like VLC? |
| [03:53:55] | wagnerrp: | the backend is designed as a pull interface, not a push interface |
| [03:54:02] | wagnerrp: | it wont send unsolicited video to a frontend |
| [03:54:42] | wagnerrp: | sphery: you ever watch the dresden files? |
| [03:55:09] | Technophil: | could a frontend send spoofing instructions that tell the backend to send it to selected places? |
| [03:55:28] | [R]: | lol |
| [03:55:43] | wagnerrp: | you could rig all this stuff up externally using calls to the frontend control socket |
| [03:55:46] | Technophil: | OK, I think I get it, a frontend would need to tell another frontend to pull.... |
| [03:55:51] | wagnerrp: | but it wouldnt be pretty, and it wouldnt be very accurate |
| [03:56:41] | Technophil: | Is there a url about frontend control sockets somewhere or is this all hidden in code? |
| [03:57:04] | [R]: | notyhing is hidden |
| [03:57:06] | [R]: | its all open source |
| [03:57:07] | wagnerrp: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frontend_control_socket |
| [03:57:46] | wagnerrp: | [R]: ive got some stuff pretty well hidden in the python bindings |
| [03:57:48] | Technophil: | [R]: yes, sorry, its hidden to me if I can't read the code...at least easily that is... |
| [03:57:55] | [R]: | wagnerrp: haha |
| [03:58:05] | wagnerrp: | but thats just because theres some really screwy code structures in there |
| [03:58:09] | [R]: | step 1, learn english, step 2, learn c++ |
| [03:58:20] | wagnerrp: | if you dont know what its doing, it can be hard to decipher |
| [03:58:33] | wagnerrp: | (sometimes i forget what its doing, and it takes me a long time to figure it out) |
| [03:58:41] | [R]: | i think that's what comments are for... |
| [03:59:17] | Technophil: | I declare (if its not obvious) that I need to learn more c++ |
| [03:59:42] | [R]: | so learn more c++ |
| [04:01:10] | Technophil: | Interesting, perhaps one could write an android app that sent the same instructions to a set of frontends? |
| [04:03:36] | Technophil: | or similar...something that conducted several the same way.. |
| [04:05:09] | Technophil: | [R]: any suggestions where you'd suggest someone start that? |
| [04:05:44] | [R]: | stop[ trying to abuse mythtv |
| [04:08:37] | Technophil: | [R]: Abuse? Hmm I really see it as using, not abusing. I would prefer to work with it, rather than against it. |
| [04:08:53] | [R]: | trying to make it do somethign it doesnt is not working with it |
| [04:09:10] | wagnerrp: | sure it is, thats called development |
| [04:09:27] | [R]: | but he doesnt wnt to do that |
| [04:09:28] | wagnerrp: | trying to make it do something very divergent from its designed use is abusing it |
| [04:09:29] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [04:09:43] | [R]: | i abuse code all day long at my job |
| [04:09:46] | [R]: | it shoudl be illegal |
| [04:10:59] | Technophil: | Once upon a time tivo's did not have an Ethernet interface...... I wouldn't accept the addition was an abuse. It was something the developers had not thought to do.... |
| [04:12:34] | Technophil: | I guess its a matter of opinion of making mythtv do something its not yet been designed to do, but might be a minor variation to introduce a new feature (that some competiting products do) is or is nto an abuse. Anyway I don't see developing this idea as productive for any of us. |
| [04:12:36] | wagnerrp: | it was probably something they were afraid of |
| [04:12:50] | wagnerrp: | they saw the writing on the wall that got replaytv stomped on |
| [04:13:03] | Technophil: | I wonder what they'd think now... |
| [04:13:28] | wagnerrp: | they still only allow network access to anything marked 'copy freely' |
| [04:13:54] | wagnerrp: | and there are further restrictions to prevent use that might result in sharing between distant units |
| [04:14:40] | Technophil: | which are particular reasons that more people use mythtv in preference! |
| [04:16:20] | wagnerrp: | dont get me wrong, im not saying what youre trying to do is "bad" per se |
| [04:16:38] | wagnerrp: | just that the frontends were never designed to operate collaboratively |
| [04:17:09] | wagnerrp: | theyre just each their own independent units, whose only link is the shared resources on the backend |
| [04:17:16] | Technophil: | Its clear different people have different views and priorities, I am grateful that you spell out some of the issues and considerations. Its all helpful. |
| [04:18:08] | Technophil: | Could one do a webpage that ran php that send socket commands? |
| [04:18:36] | wagnerrp: | mythweb already has a limited interface to that frontend control socket |
| [04:20:37] | sutula: | Anyone here know what the field "serviceid" in the channel table refers to? |
| [04:22:21] | Technophil: | I'd prefer to do something that respected the current and coming myth code base for now. If it worked well maybe it might be of interest, however I'm not currently up to changing the code and compiling it all again, which I am assuming would be required. Hmm, perhaps I could write something in parallel to mythweb in a new directory that didn't break anything. |
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| [04:22:55] | Captain_Murdoch: | Technophil, several ideas have been presented in the past to allow a group of frontends to be synced together, specifically for something like Superbowl Sunday. Pause the 'master' frontend and they all pause, skip 30 seconds forward on the master and the rest skip, etc.. sending commands everywhere is relatively easy, keeping playback in sync is the hard part. |
| [04:23:47] | wagnerrp: | sutula: educated guess, the individual program id for that channel within the multiplex |
| [04:24:21] | wagnerrp: | Captain_Murdoch: and in that particular case, the sync needs to be very precise, or you have audio funkiness between multiple sets in proximity |
| [04:24:27] | Technophil: | Captain_Murdoch: how much in sync are you talking here? If it was just a second or two then that would be a great advance for me. |
| [04:24:52] | wagnerrp: | he just wants to have all of his frontends automatically play the same thing, so that as he moves from room to room, its already playing what he was previously watching |
| [04:25:50] | Technophil: | I would want the audio in sync with the video in each room, but between rooms is not an issue, echo can be controlled by shutting doors....etc |
| [04:25:51] | Captain_Murdoch: | when I looked into adding that functionality, I was trying to keep near-perfect sync. sending events out from the master as to the absolute playback position so that the secondaries could keep as close as possible. It was just a proof of concept, I never got too far with it and the code is long gone. |
| [04:26:27] | sutula: | wagnerrp: Thanks much...that makes sense and I was just trying to make sure it wasn't a primary key of another table. |
| [04:26:41] | wagnerrp: | the latency in the event system is sufficiently low that would work? |
| [04:27:04] | wagnerrp: | or were you sending video position and an NTP coordinated timestamp? |
| [04:28:29] | Captain_Murdoch: | I was just sending current video position. our events make it around pretty quick, so just telling the other FE's that we're at frame X gives them enough info to try to speed up or slow down to stay close to X. |
| [04:30:44] | Captain_Murdoch: | I never got past proof of concept, I didn't get things playing back perfect or near perfect. lost interest since it's a feature I'd probably not even use. it was more of a novelty thing for superbowl sunday. like when I added the ability to reverse the cutlist a long time ago so that people could skip the show and watch the commercials. :) |
| [04:31:08] | wagnerrp: | heh |
| [04:32:52] | Technophil: | Captain_Murdoch: For what I want I would have thought sending start and pause commands would be sufficient, any time drift would be accepted, and staritng a new recording would likely start with minimal difference. I'm not sure but it seems to me that generally mythtv keeps to time |
| [04:37:20] | Technophil: | Captain_Murdoch: It seems to me another sync issue to overcome for perfect sync would be different frontend differences, slow cpu vs fast cpu etc, fast bus vs slow bus... to get perfect sync would be very difficult with mulitple issues to correct for. |
| [04:38:38] | Captain_Murdoch: | FPS is FPS. if the frontend can't keep up there's no need to try playing the video on it. if the secondaries know that the master just played frame X, they can speed up or slow down to try to keep in sync. if you're using underpowered hardware then don't expect it to work. |
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| [04:39:26] | Technophil: | Well maybe the wide variety of frontends that play acceptably would not create an issue then... |
| [04:41:44] | Captain_Murdoch: | with the advent of digital television, I've noticed that some sets don't even play the same audio in sync when fed with the same signal. audio processing, etc. can delay audio on a TV, so in-sync playback on mutliple TV's watching a live signal might not happen unless they were identical TVs. |
| [04:41:55] | Technophil: | Anyway I'm not looking for perfect sync. From what's been said it seems the potential is there to do a more comprehensive mythweb like control page that would send just send commands to selected frontends. (WOL also comes to mind) |
| [04:45:33] | Captain_Murdoch: | if you don't use MythTV already, then you might want to look at www.linuxmce.org. that's comes with an ?old? version of MythTV and is a descendent of Pluto. Pluto paid a bounty to add the original Network Control interface to mythfrontend. the feature was added specifically so that the program you were watching could follow you around the house as you went from room to room. They used the NetworkControl interface to co |
| [04:45:33] | Captain_Murdoch: | ntrol the frontends and I believe bluetooth to detect proximity to know what room you were in. when you left a room, they'd check playback position and start playback at that position in the next room you entered. |
| [04:46:58] | wagnerrp: | mentioned such way in the backlog |
| [04:47:12] | wagnerrp: | Captain_Murdoch: do you remember anything about the plextor tuners? |
| [04:48:43] | Captain_Murdoch: | convertx? I have a tunerless version but haven't used it in a long time. used to use it with my DishNetwork receiver. |
| [04:49:08] | Technophil: | Captain_Murdoch: I've got a mythbuntu setup including a server and 5 fixed frontends, plus a few Dell D830's frontends that I've not used much for mythtv. I'd prefer to stay with mythbuntu and the update path that's there. |
| [04:49:10] | wagnerrp: | i was under the impression those devices only encoded video, and you had to separately capture, encode, and multiplex the audio |
| [04:49:36] | wagnerrp: | i mentioned such recently on the mailing list, and was corrected off-list by mark lord |
| [04:49:42] | Captain_Murdoch: | the audio was captured, it was just not in the video stream. it was like a soundcard input. |
| [04:49:50] | wagnerrp: | im pretty sure i heard that years back from the linuxtv guys |
| [04:50:32] | wagnerrp: | right, captured by the device, just not packaged in a nice mpeg2 stream like the ivtv stuff |
| [04:50:38] | Captain_Murdoch: | right. |
| [04:50:57] | wagnerrp: | thats what i thought, maybe hes confusing it with some other device |
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| [06:03:29] | Gumby: | hi all. does anyone know what db table stores which channel was tuned last? I;m having a dvb issue where a channel that was watched last no longer has anything being broadcast on it and when the frontend starts it just crashes. I thought the table was |
| [06:04:08] | Gumby: | oops... I thought the table was "cardinput" and "startchan" was the relevant column however none of the channels listed there are the ones that mythtv is trying to start on. |
| [06:04:10] | wagnerrp: | cardinput; |
| [06:04:37] | wagnerrp: | well that is the one youre looking for |
| [06:04:53] | wagnerrp: | is it possible something has been recorded using that tuner since the last time you tried, changing the startchan? |
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| [06:06:08] | Gumby: | I've tried manually changing the startchan to a known good channel but the frontend only tried to tune the last channel and doesn't seem to be pulling information from that table. Let me try again. |
| [06:06:25] | Gumby: | the only way I have fixed this in the past is to run mythtv-setup and delete the problem channel |
| [06:06:29] | Gumby: | and then re-add it later |
| [06:08:43] | Gumby: | as expected, I changed the startchan on all cardinputs to a valid channel (1400) but the frontend still wants to tune 1452 |
| [06:09:57] | wagnerrp: | your channels are actually numbered that high? |
| [06:10:06] | wagnerrp: | that is the channum, not the chanid |
| [06:10:46] | Gumby: | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/499827 |
| [06:11:28] | Gumby: | startchan = channum does it not? all my previous values are channel numbers |
| [06:11:54] | wagnerrp: | 1400 and 1452 are awfully high for the 'channum' |
| [06:12:10] | wagnerrp: | even large cable lineups generally dont go beyond 3 digits |
| [06:12:54] | Gumby: | this is dvb not cable |
| [06:12:56] | wagnerrp: | while for a chanid, that would be a very reasonable value |
| [06:13:45] | wagnerrp: | so the channum should be something like <freqid>_<progid> |
| [06:15:29] | wagnerrp: | for instance, one of my tuners is set to start on 9_1 |
| [06:15:38] | wagnerrp: | although technically, that is the ATSC virtual mapping |
| [06:15:41] | Gumby: | I've never seen that before |
| [06:15:47] | wagnerrp: | its actually channel 116_33 |
| [06:16:07] | Gumby: | perhaps atsc maps differently than dvb? |
| [06:16:24] | wagnerrp: | digital broadcasts, you have your actual frequency, and then you have several channels broadcast on that frequency |
| [06:16:35] | wagnerrp: | so you end up with two values |
| [06:16:42] | wagnerrp: | physical channel, virtual stream |
| [06:16:50] | wagnerrp: | right? |
| [06:17:05] | Gumby: | and where do you see this in your db? I don't see this or I am looking in the wrong place |
| [06:17:28] | wagnerrp: | hang on... |
| [06:18:31] | Gumby: | for example, an entry for a channel in mythconverg.channel http://pastebin.ca/2109591 |
| [06:18:50] | wagnerrp: | select cardinputid,cardid,displayname,channel.channum,channel.freqid,channel.serviceid, channel.callsign,channel.callsign from cardinput join channel on cardinput.startchan=channel.channum; |
| [06:19:20] | Gumby: | and http://pastebin.ca/2109592 |
| [06:19:47] | wagnerrp: | freqid is null? |
| [06:20:00] | Gumby: | yes |
| [06:20:01] | wagnerrp: | i realize thats a meaningless value since tuning is actually done through dtv_multiplex |
| [06:20:07] | wagnerrp: | but its odd its not being populated |
| [06:21:33] | Gumby: | does "DefaultChanid" ring any bells? |
| [06:21:45] | wagnerrp: | nope |
| [06:23:40] | Gumby: | there must be some "lastchan" setting _somewhere_. heck, I can do update cardinput set startchan = 1; and right now, when I tune livetv, it will still try to go to 1452 |
| [06:24:04] | Gumby: | maybe if I delete the channel and watch what sql query os run when I do so |
| [06:24:28] | wagnerrp: | why dont you just go into mythtv-setup and change the channel for that input? |
| [06:25:08] | Gumby: | I can. Its just so much easier to run a quick sql query |
| [06:25:27] | Gumby: | or even set a cron job so that it runs every hour so this never happens |
| [06:25:34] | wagnerrp: | by "quick", you mean youve been sitting here arguing over it for 20 minutes |
| [06:26:08] | Gumby: | I'm not meaning to argue, I am just stating what I see on this end and trying to find a way around it so I dont have to run mythtv-setup each time it happens |
| [06:26:33] | Gumby: | I have the time now to try and fix it for myself for good, so I am trying to do so |
| [06:26:37] | wagnerrp: | as mentioned in that thread, it shouldnt be happening |
| [06:26:47] | wagnerrp: | mythtv is supposed to remain responsive even when tuning an invalid channel |
| [06:27:00] | wagnerrp: | giving you the opportunity to change to a new channel |
| [06:27:13] | wagnerrp: | its just a behavior that seems to keep getting broken |
| [06:27:38] | wagnerrp: | and with no devs taking a real interest in live tv, its something that goes unmaintained, and to some extent even unnoticed |
| [06:28:04] | wagnerrp: | the fix "for good" would be to figure out how that behavior was last broken |
| [06:28:07] | Gumby: | after it fails to tune, mythfrontend either crashes back to the desktop or will allow me to input a new channel sometimes, but when I do I get "Error opening jump program file" |
| [06:28:16] | wagnerrp: | although i dont know where you would start with that |
| [06:28:20] | Gumby: | and then I often have to kill and restart the frontend |
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| [06:28:35] | wagnerrp: | back to the desktop? meaning the whole thing segfaults? |
| [06:28:38] | Gumby: | yeah |
| [06:28:52] | wagnerrp: | then that very likely deserves a ticket and a backtrace |
| [06:28:57] | wagnerrp: | if there isnt already one open on trac |
| [06:29:20] | Gumby: | I'm just reading along now to see if something already has |
| [06:37:49] | Gumby: | what is also weird is that after dropping the channel with the issue, the next channel it tries on frontend startup is the channel that was the channel it started with prior to the broken channel being used. So this info MUST be stored somewhere |
| [06:38:14] | wagnerrp: | in startchan |
| [06:38:34] | wagnerrp: | when you modify that value in mythtv-setup, you are modifying startchan |
| [06:38:40] | Gumby: | but again, it is not any of the channels in the startchan column |
| [06:39:08] | Gumby: | this time I didnt even use mythtv setup. I just did delete from channel where channum = 1452; |
| [06:39:16] | wagnerrp: | is that tuner already in use, such that mythtv has to instead select something on the same multiplex? |
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| [06:40:10] | Gumby: | the tuner does scan for listings. that is the only thing it would be doing. |
| [06:40:38] | Gumby: | not using multirec or anything like that |
| [06:45:30] | Gumby: | I'm also curious, how does mythtv select which tuner and cardinput is used when livetv is started |
| [06:45:39] | wagnerrp: | first available |
| [06:46:24] | Gumby: | and it just goes through cardinput in order ? |
| [06:47:40] | wagnerrp: | pretty much |
| [06:47:59] | wagnerrp: | unless you tell it to avoid conflicts between livetv and recordings |
| [06:48:04] | wagnerrp: | in which case it runs in reverse order |
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| [07:55:50] | Beirdo: | OK, I spent FAR too much time working this week |
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| [12:37:01] | wizbit: | i now have a hp dc7700 sitting in front of me, it looks awesome, bargain HD frontend |
| [12:57:10] | wizbit: | inside the box, there is a fan what sits right in front of the cpu and graphic card, keeping both bits cool |
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| [14:58:40] | netAction: | Hi! I do not have a tv and need a VDR that completely works via a website. The screenshots of MythWeb do not look very nice. Is there any good alternative? |
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| [15:07:00] | AndyCap: | netAction: maybe you could ask this guy for his code. :P http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/187444 |
| [15:07:34] | AndyCap: | netAction: mythtv might not be a good fit for you, but what do you feel is missing from mythweb? |
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| [15:08:24] | netAction: | AndyCap: I didn't try it. But it doesn't have a good HTML5-player, I think. |
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| [15:16:31] | netAction: | AndyCap: OK I read the thread. The thread opener talks about a browser implemenation first and then about mplayer and X much more things that are not part of a browser. Do you really take the thread serious? |
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| [15:18:53] | AndyCap: | netAction: well, I think the software he wrote is far from being as great as the author thinks it is, but he does share your goal of browser only PVR, don't think anyone have seen his code, but maybe you could ask him for it and see. |
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| [15:19:46] | netAction: | I do not expect anything as he does not know how usual browsers are configured. |
| [15:20:06] | netAction: | The mplayer thing is bullshit. |
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| [15:44:13] | EvilGuru: | netAction: Please do not swear :) |
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| [15:46:47] | netAction: | EvilGuru: sorry |
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| [16:15:49] | AndyCap: | heh, how did tvtime make it on a PVR list? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_PVR_software_packages |
| [16:16:49] | sphery: | it "records" to RAM? |
| [16:17:36] | awalls: | and it "decodes" YUV video |
| [16:18:21] | awalls: | ;) |
| [16:18:25] | wagnerrp: | it does? |
| [16:18:37] | wagnerrp: | i thought it just copies the stuff straight into graphics |
| [16:18:57] | wagnerrp: | lets the video card "decode" YUV video instead |
| [16:20:58] | awalls: | Not sure. I was going for "not MPEG-2 or any other compressed format" |
| [16:21:15] | awalls: | Which one would expect of PVR software |
| [16:21:26] | sphery: | even if going direct to the video card, it still hits video ram :) |
| [16:22:34] | awalls: | Hmm. No devinheitmueller today |
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| [16:22:50] | wagnerrp: | david crawford just doesnt "get it" |
| [16:23:09] | wagnerrp: | perhaps he just isnt cut out for basic computer logic |
| [16:29:10] | sphery: | I read a very interesting article about how some people can never "learn" computer programming--that it has everything to do with being able to accept a set of arbitrary rules, something which some people can't do |
| [16:30:50] | wagnerrp: | i mean he hasnt made the leap that he should be passing the variable names into getRecording(), not the values themselves |
| [16:32:42] | AndyCap: | sphery: did it say anything about that being good or bad from an evolutionary perspective. :P |
| [16:33:24] | sphery: | hehe, no, but I'll make my own (self-biased) decision on that |
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| [16:35:20] | awalls: | using variables names in functions is Algebra I material |
| [16:36:05] | AndyCap: | awalls: which also isn't for everyone |
| [16:36:12] | awalls: | exactly |
| [16:36:44] | wagnerrp: | well it should be |
| [16:36:54] | wagnerrp: | sure, not everyone is going to be a math wiz |
| [16:37:03] | wagnerrp: | but algebra is pretty basic stuff |
| [16:37:33] | wagnerrp: | inability to get algebra is indicative of a basic inability to perform abstract thought |
| [16:37:35] | AndyCap: | should be a matter of practice, but I have no clue how the brain works in that regard. :P |
| [16:41:42] | awalls: | The one person I know who has real trouble with abstract tools like algebra (despite trying), is exceptional in analyzing with her immediate environment. |
| [16:41:54] | awalls: | She can draw a still life that looks like a photograph |
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| [23:19:15] | jello: | Why do I get "Error opening jump buffer" when trying to view only one particular channel? |
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| [23:26:14] | spinningcog: | Hi, I'm trying to configure my remote and I'm wondering if anyone could shed some light so far as how mythtv works best with remotes? Should I install lirc ontop of the kernels ir-keymap or just use ir-keymap to directly to relevant key presses? |
| [23:26:57] | wagnerrp: | spinningcog: your remote currently sends off key presses? |
| [23:28:08] | spinningcog: | Yeah, I was following 2.2 in this document: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=104541 |
| [23:28:32] | wagnerrp: | if your remote is sending keypresses, just use the key bindings configuration in mythtv to map your commands |
| [23:28:39] | spinningcog: | I have a USB-MCE and USB-MCE remote an dI need it to work with both mythtv and xbmc |
| [23:28:45] | spinningcog: | okay |
| [23:29:11] | spinningcog: | There's nothing special about lirc-mythtv that I couldn't do with just keybindings? |
| [23:29:12] | wagnerrp: | if you are using an "mceusb" remote, you should not be getting keypresses off of it |
| [23:29:21] | jello: | Why do I get "Error opening jump buffer" when trying to view only one particular channel? |
| [23:29:31] | jello: | hi wagnerrp ! |
| [23:29:34] | wagnerrp: | at least i dont get any off mine, with the in-kernel drivers and 0.9.0 |
| [23:29:47] | wagnerrp: | jello: it means your frontend is unable to access the file stream to play video from it |
| [23:29:52] | wagnerrp: | likely because your backend failed to record |
| [23:30:00] | wagnerrp: | so you need to check your backend logs to see why it is failing to record |
| [23:30:02] | jello: | wagnerrp: yes, i checked and the file is 0B |
| [23:30:15] | jello: | front & back is same machine |
| [23:30:30] | wagnerrp: | but frontend and backend are not the same application |
| [23:30:36] | wagnerrp: | the backend records, the frontend plays |
| [23:31:21] | jello: | right... |
| [23:31:36] | jello: | wagnerrp: the channel plays fine via vlc, if that helps |
| [23:32:04] | spinningcog: | wagnerrp: If you have a modern kernerl (Ubuntu 11.10's 3.0.0-15-generic) and you can use ir-keytable to load a keymap, such that the kernel will directly generate keypresses from IR commands. |
| [23:33:11] | jello: | DTVSM(/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0) Error: Wrong PMT; pmt->pn(10) desired(4) |
| [23:33:15] | spinningcog: | wagnerrp: Supposedly I can also setup lirc to read from /dev/event interface and then get the events into lirc, but If I can access all the functionallity with keypresses I'll just do that. |
| [23:33:20] | jello: | DTVSM(/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0) Error: Wrong PMT; pmt->pn(3) desired(4) |
| [23:33:35] | jello: | any idea what that means? |
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| [23:38:29] | wagnerrp: | jello: are you trying to record broadacst or cable? |
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| [23:40:23] | jello: | wagnerrp: cable |
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| [23:43:05] | jello: | wagnerrp: what's strange is mythtv is fine with all the other channels on the frequency |
| [23:43:09] | wagnerrp: | my guess is your cable company has changed the location of that channel, and you are using the 'quick tune' option for live tv |
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| [23:43:43] | jello: | wagnerrp: the channel works fine in vlc using channels.conf |
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| [23:44:35] | wagnerrp: | jello: because mythtv has two separate methods of tuning |
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| [23:44:56] | wagnerrp: | recordings take a longer route, that can account for minor changes in the broadcast stream |
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| [23:45:21] | wagnerrp: | while livetv can optionally use quicktune, which doesnt bother waiting for some stream information, and thus may not always work |
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| [23:45:44] | jello: | wagnerrp: is quicktune a global option? |
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| [23:45:48] | jello: | how do i change it? |
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| [23:46:45] | wagnerrp: | i dont recall off hand where that option is |
| [23:47:01] | ** jello digs... ** | |
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| [23:50:07] | jello: | wagnerrp: quicktune was set to never |
| [23:50:16] | jello: | already |
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| [23:52:40] | jello: | hi sphery |
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