Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, January 20th, 2012, 00:02 UTC

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Oleg_:

wagnerrp, so, "Terra Nova" should be cancelled, don't you think?

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mythfan:

Any here have hdpvr blaster working

[00:07:31]

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[00:10:50]

jpabq:

mythfan: Is the ir blaster your only option? One of the primary reasons I chose Directv, is because their STBs can be controlled via a serial cable — which means I don't have to fight with IR blasters. If I had not gone with Directv, I would have made sure I got a cablebox with working firewire, so I could use that to change channels.

[00:11:31]

sphery:

Oleg_: those who watch it are saying it's likely: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/01/18/f . . . idol/116648/

[00:12:20]

sphery:

Oleg_: + http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/12/18/b . . . ewal/114093/

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Twiggy2cents:

Ugh I like terra nova

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Twiggy2cents:

Supernatural CW Likely Renewal ....

[00:26:27]

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Twiggy2cents:

I love the show and all, but it was supposed to end last season

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Twiggy2cents:

They have gone too deep with it and lost the appeal of hunting different things. I liked the early seasons where there was variety.

[00:28:15]

Oleg_:

I like Supernatural

[00:28:38]

Twiggy2cents:

I do too, but I liked the 1st season style better than way this and the last season have gone

[00:29:00]

mythfan:

jpabq: i have a new motorola dcx-700 stb but the firewire seem not to be enable

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sphery:

Oleg_: +1 for Supernatural... I /loved/ last season, but haven't started this season, yet.

[00:59:49]

sphery:

then again, I've always been a fan of Sera Gamble's episodes, so liking last season's (and likely this season's) makes sense

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[01:00:49]

mythfan:

Any here had setup blaster for hv-pvr

[01:07:18]

sphery:

wow, Qt debug build with examples: 4.5.3 = 838MB; 4.6.2 = 999MB; 4.7.3 = 1.3GB; 4.8 = 1.3GB

[01:07:28]

sphery:

(and I have way too many Qt builds installed, now)

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[01:09:04]

mythfan:

sphery: Is opengl vs qt is more fast for epg

[01:09:30]

sphery:

the theme painter shouldn't make any difference in speed

[01:09:41]

sphery:

you do mean EPG in GUI, right?

[01:09:46]

sphery:

versus some OSD thing?

[01:10:26]

sphery:

slow epg is usually down to misconfiguration--such as specifying channel icons, but having them somewhere that mythfrontend can't read them

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[01:11:35]

mythfan:

Video in corner hang few sec when i move in epg

[01:12:08]

mythfan:

I mean channel guide

[01:13:26]

brikp:

Mythfan – Me too, I get some stutter when browsing the guide.

[01:13:33]

sphery:

that's likely I/O wait and/or DB resource usage

[01:13:57]

sphery:

mythfan: what file system do you use for the file system with mysql data on it?

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[01:19:20]

mythfan:

Its a standard mythbuntu installation dont know about file system i use version 11.10

[01:19:48]

mythfan:

My older version i think 9.05 was not doing that

[01:20:03]

wagnerrp:

are you recording to the same disk as your database is stored on?

[01:20:46]

mythfan:

Brikp: which distro so you use

[01:21:14]

brikp:

mythbuntu 10.10, checking my file system now, I did default too

[01:21:25]

sphery:

mythfan: please pastebin the output of: mount

[01:21:28]

brikp:

I'm Ext4

[01:21:39]

** sphery guesses it's ext4 + barriers **

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sphery:

+ recording to the same file system with the database data

[01:22:54]

sphery:

wagnerrp: btw, did you notice that earlier we had a user whose mythfrontend was locking up... turned out it was a user without a window manager who got a modal dialog behind the mythfrontend window

[01:23:08]

sphery:

but, of course, you don't need a window manager--the -users list says so!

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mythfan:

wagnerrp: Yes should i put dabase on my current frontend ( will be a frontend with back end)

[01:23:41]

wagnerrp:

i saw some comment about a window manager solving the problem... i didnt read back to see what the problem was

[01:24:00]

mythfan:

And just have tuner in master backend

[01:24:19]

sphery:

yeah, I just had to point it out since the list thinks I'm lying and there's no need for a WM

[01:24:49]

wagnerrp:

mythfan: i mean... do you have two separate hard drives, one for the database, and one for recordings

[01:25:31]

sphery:

mythfan: ideally the recording file system is separate from the mysql data file system... or even more ideally, the recording file system is on a separate HDD from the mysql data file system

[01:26:01]

mythfan:

wagnerrp: I hdd

[01:26:13]

wagnerrp:

is that a '1' or an 'I'

[01:26:14]

sphery:

mythfan: however, you can probably make it work well enough by risking data integrity issues by turning off barriers on your ext4 file system

[01:26:21]

mythfan:

1

[01:26:23]

sphery:

I, hdd

[01:26:28]

sphery:

starring Will Smith

[01:26:55]

mythfan:

Only one partition

[01:27:39]

wagnerrp:

do you have any spare hard drives laying around?

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mythfan_:

sphery: that was no doing this with 9.05

[01:28:07]

wagnerrp:

thats correct, because 9.04 ran an old filesystem and old kernel

[01:28:13]

wagnerrp:

that did not enable 'barriers' by default

[01:28:20]

sphery:

mythfan_: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/493259#493259 , but note that disabling barriers will risk your data

[01:28:27]

wagnerrp:

barriers ensure that all mysql writes go directly to the platter

[01:28:35]

wagnerrp:

rather than being buffered in some cache

[01:28:40]

mythfan_:

wagnerrp: could I record to a netgear readynas

[01:28:49]

sphery:

or, at least, go completely to the platter

[01:29:18]

mythfan_:

i mean put 2x 2 TO drive and record all my show to the readynas

[01:29:39]

mythfan_:

it's a gigabyte card ...

[01:30:45]

mythfan_:

wagnerrp: do you have a HDPVR

[01:30:45]

wagnerrp:

TO drive?

[01:30:51]

mythfan_:

two

[01:30:51]

wagnerrp:

no i do not

[01:31:02]

mythfan_:

sorry for my bad english

[01:31:03]

mythfan_:

:(

[01:31:24]

mythfan_:

two 2 tetra

[01:31:26]

mythfan_:

drive

[01:31:33]

mythfan_:

2 x 2000 go

[01:31:56]

mythfan_:

dont know how you say this in english

[01:32:12]

wagnerrp:

gigabyte, GB

[01:32:16]

wagnerrp:

terabyte, TB

[01:32:17]

sphery:

two 2-terrabyte HDDs :)

[01:32:24]

mythfan_:

TB sorry

[01:32:34]

mythfan_:

it's reliable to write to a NAS ?

[01:32:40]

sphery:

er, terabyte... /me is still thinking of Terra Nova, which was mentioned earlier

[01:33:08]

sphery:

can you put those 2 HDDs in your mythbackend box, instead?

[01:33:26]

sphery:

that way the network doesn't become an additional potential failure mode

[01:33:50]

sphery:

that said, you /can/ use network storage, but you have to deal with the issues that NFS/CIFS bring

[01:34:49]

mythfan_:

yeah i think i will be better to put them in the mythbackend box

[01:35:05]

mythfan_:

4 TB is ok for hd or not enought

[01:35:28]

sphery:

read up on barriers, though, since they will affect any mysql writing operations--including causing extremely slow mythfilldatabase and such

[01:35:48]

wagnerrp:

4TB is plenty

[01:35:50]

sphery:

then decide whether you want the data safety or the speed

[01:36:00]

sphery:

yeah, 4TB is good

[01:36:11]

wagnerrp:

mythfan: basically, the problem is that with barriers enabled, and mythtv's own sync loop

[01:36:30]

wagnerrp:

the disk performance is too poor to handle both recording and database access on the same drive

[01:36:36]

sphery:

and mysql's sync

[01:40:15]

sphery:

wagnerrp: how often does mythtv sync? when skd5 aner was testing his Live TV, he wasn't seeing a sync in 4min

[01:40:30]

sphery:

I'm thinking it happens far less often than the list says

[01:41:00]

wagnerrp:

once per second per recording

[01:41:03]

mythfan_:

sphery: i can install different file system if not on same drive

[01:41:16]

brikp:

Sorry, in a different chat.... I have 2T on my backend and mySQL on same, performance is fine for me except for a little stutter sometomes when in guide with scrolling.

[01:42:07]

mythfan_:

performance is fine too but little stutte too when scrolling in guide too

[01:42:46]

brikp:

my commercial detection works fine

[01:42:58]

sphery:

mythfan_: different file system, as in 2 file systems, might be helpful... different file system, as in some other file system instead of ext4, would be no different from ext4--in that you either enable barriers and get bad performance, but safety, or disable barriers and get good performance, but risk data loss on power loss or similar\

[01:42:59]

brikp:

its on a P4 something or another

[01:44:03]

mythfan_:

sphery: what you use

[01:44:46]

sphery:

I'm using an ext file system, but with barriers disabled--but I'm not recommending that approach

[01:45:16]

sphery:

I do have different file systems for my recordings and mysql data--and recordings go to other drives, too

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mythfan_:

so if I go this route I should have other drive ... one drive for os and database and others for recordings

[01:46:54]

sphery:

that would be ideal, but one drive can be made to work

[01:47:16]

wagnerrp:

as long as you dont use barriers

[01:48:41]

mythfan_:

my hd is only 250 gb

[01:48:53]

mythfan_:

not enough for hd

[01:49:19]

mythfan_:

i have a cable box and i bought a hdhomerun that i want to setup for OTA

[01:51:59]

brikp:

I just moved my HDHR from QAM to OTA

[01:53:14]

mythfan_:

here in canada QAM are mostly crypted

[01:53:26]

mythfan_:

cable dont support cable card either

[01:53:33]

mythfan_:

so we need HDPVR

[01:53:44]

brikp:

same here, I had a few clear

[01:53:46]

wagnerrp:

some users have been getting by with firewire

[01:54:23]

mythfan_:

they flag 5C

[01:54:39]

wagnerrp:

if thats the case, cablecard would be no good for you anyway

[01:55:00]

mythfan_:

why ?

[01:55:29]

wagnerrp:

because mythtv does not implement DRM

[01:55:37]

mythfan_:

DRM

[01:55:39]

mythfan_:

?

[01:55:43]

brikp:

gota run, good luck with the hdhr and ota, its a nice setup IMO

[01:55:54]

brikp:

Digital Rights Management

[01:55:58]

brikp:

DRM sux

[01:55:59]

wagnerrp:

for the same reason we will never get licensed to perform the 5C handshake, we will never get licensed to access DRM'd cablecard content

[01:56:20]

wagnerrp:

the device will not give us the content, because we are not authenticated as a system that will uphold the restrictions of the DRM

[01:56:56]

brikp:

gnite all – keep up the good work

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sphery:

wagnerrp: have you used mythtv compiled with Qt 4.8, yet?

[02:08:20]

sphery:

davide: nice work!

[02:08:51]

wagnerrp:

nope

[02:09:23]

sphery:

just curious... using it via ssh X forwarding with Qt painter, it seems more like mythtv with Qt < 4.8 using OpenGL painter

[02:09:44]

sphery:

seems they have some kind of GL-based image stuff going on

[02:09:58]

sphery:

you can see each screen fill itself from top to bottom

[02:10:08]

sphery:

like some kind of transition is in play

[02:10:17]

sphery:

(this is 0.24-fixes with Qt painter)

[02:10:29]

sphery:

so definitely not the new animation stuff :)

[02:10:32]

** wagnerrp starts watching his favorite orwellian fantasy **

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[02:21:29]

abqjp:

mythfan_, I have two HD-PVRs. But, like I said, I don't use the IR with them.

[02:21:51]

mythfan_:

what you use

[02:21:56]

wagnerrp:

serial (usb), firewire, or network?

[02:22:02]

[R]:

network is the bomb diggity

[02:22:09]

[R]:

i just got it set up like 2 weeks ago

[02:23:44]

abqjp:

mythfan_, I use a USB to RS232 (null modem) to USB cable, to control my STBs.

[02:23:59]

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[02:26:26]

mythfan_:

a serial blaster ?

[02:26:30]

mythfan_:

it's reliable

[02:27:04]

mythfan_:

?

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[02:27:12]

wagnerrp:

no, just serial

[02:27:31]

wagnerrp:

certain directv satellite boxes accept serial communication through a USB port on the back

[02:27:54]

[R]:

that sounds a little dirty...

[02:28:05]

mythfan_:

i understand

[02:28:15]

mythfan_:

i dont think my box have serial

[02:28:23]

mythfan_:

mines dcx700

[02:28:31]

mythfan_:

new slim motorola box

[02:29:07]

mythfan_:

him sending HD trought ubiquiti 802.11n and it work pretty well

[02:29:56]

mythfan_:

im

[02:29:57]

mythfan_:

sorry

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[02:34:14]

mythfan_:

what they by 3,5 mm serial port

[02:34:25]

mythfan_:

and 3,5 mm external ir input

[02:34:36]

mythfan_:

cant i make this work with this ?

[02:34:57]

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[02:35:39]

mythfan_:

http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Video-Sol . . . %20sheet.pdf

[02:35:56]

mythfan_:

page 2 rear of the unit

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[02:38:11]

mythfan_:

http://www.irblaster.info/blog/dcx3300_dcx700.html

[02:42:10]

mythfan_:

any know about serial port 3,5 mm

[02:45:36]

iamlindoro:

mythfan_: You are extremely unclear-- I am not sure if your first language is english, but if you are looking for answers you may want to take more time to formulate a clear question

[02:48:31]

mythfan_:

iamlindoro: sorry for bad english, this is not my first language... my dcx700 have a 3,5 mm port (1/8) marked as serial / EXT IR IN. I just want to know if i can use this port to control the STB to change channel, as my HDPVR blaster dont work.

[02:49:00]

mythfan_:

wagnerrp: you there

[02:49:13]

iamlindoro:

If your HD-PVR's blaster doesn't work, then you are unlikely to be able to use the serial in either, as you would be sending the same codes to it

[02:50:20]

mythfan_:

iamlindoro: guy here told me HD-PVR blaster is not reliable ... and use usb blaster, serial cable, or firewire

[02:50:27]

mythfan_:

they asked if i have serial port

[02:50:39]

mythfan_:

i was thinking that i dont have one...

[02:50:41]

iamlindoro:

When they said serial cable, they meant to use a serial IR blaster

[02:50:49]

iamlindoro:

not to use serial in to the box

[02:51:08]

wagnerrp:

well, actually abqjp really did mean using a serial cable into the box

[02:51:21]

mythfan_:

wagnerrp: certain directv satellite boxes accept serial communication through a USB port on the back

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[02:51:23]

iamlindoro:

That said, your box has firewire, so you should use that if at all possible

[02:51:25]

sphery:

but that's only useful on some boxes--only ones I've heard of were DirecTV

[02:51:48]

sphery:

yes, firewire channel change is likely your best bet

[02:51:55]

mythfan_:

Iamlindoro: firewire is not enable i checked in the config menu

[02:52:04]

mythfan_:

i know sphery

[02:52:12]

mythfan_:

cable compagny didnt enable it

[02:52:12]

iamlindoro:

Then you will need to use an IR blaster, most likely

[02:52:29]

iamlindoro:

Since the HD-PVR blaster is problematic, you can but a USB or serial IR blaster and use that

[02:52:33]

iamlindoro:

s/but/buy/

[02:53:01]

mythfan_:

do serial port can work on 3,5 mm plug ?

[02:53:07]

sphery:

mythfan_: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/FireWire + http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Firewire_Priming_Scripts + http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Channel_Change_Scripts

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[02:53:25]

iamlindoro:

No, it's not going to work on the serial port on your box

[02:53:26]

sphery:

ah, ok, nvm if it's not enabled

[02:53:36]

iamlindoro:

you need to use an IR blaster. Again.

[02:53:46]

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[02:53:53]

mythfan_:

blaster are not always reliable

[02:53:57]

sphery:

MCE USB... $20-$25 and done... :)

[02:53:59]

iamlindoro:

Correct

[02:54:06]

iamlindoro:

But it's more reliable than nothing

[02:54:17]

mythfan_:

EXT IR IN

[02:54:28]

** iamlindoro gives up **

[02:54:33]

sphery:

In my 3 years of using an IR transmitter with MythTV, I never had a failure that was due to the IR blaster

[02:54:49]

sphery:

all failures were due to power or STB being turned off or ...

[02:54:52]

mythfan_:

i bought this on ebay earlier ?

[02:55:01]

mythfan_:

on min

[02:55:12]

mythfan_:

amazon

[02:55:13]

mythfan_:

sorry

[02:55:24]

iamlindoro:

This is clearly a case of "Here's my question and the answer I want, now please repeat it back to me"

[02:55:45]

sphery:

mythfan_: likely EXT IR IN means: http://www.irblaster.info/motorola_rx.html

[02:56:08]

sphery:

mythfan_: i.e. allows you to put the IR sensor somewhere outside of the closed cabinet in which you keep the STB

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[02:57:36]

mythfan_:

http://www.amazon.com/Company-MediaGate-GP-IR . . . 0&sr=8-1

[02:57:37]

sphery:

for IR transmitting, you can either attempt to figure out the HD-PVR blaster--and spend a /lot/ of your own (and likely others') time in the process, or you can get an easy-to-set-up IR blaster like the MCE USB blaster

[02:57:57]

mythfan_:

wil receive it tuesday, I will only use the blaster

[02:58:07]

sphery:

yeah, that's the one that skd5 aner suggested to you--and said works great and was easy to set up

[02:58:18]

mythfan_:

yeah

[02:58:29]

mythfan_:

buy from amazon.com they ship to canada

[02:58:30]

mythfan_:

:)

[02:58:59]

sphery:

they also have it on amazon.ca

[02:59:05]

mythfan_:

no

[02:59:10]

mythfan_:

not in stock

[02:59:24]

mythfan_:

i will pay 20 $ more for shipping :(

[02:59:33]

sphery:

ah, yeah.... available from these sellers

[02:59:50]

sphery:

I just saw it at http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/180-610 . . . =16&y=23

[02:59:54]

mythfan_:

the seller is from us

[03:00:09]

mythfan_:

so I will have to pay customs charge

[03:00:11]

sphery:

out of stock at newegg.ca, too

[03:00:12]

mythfan_:

i saw it also

[03:00:17]

sphery:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880121002

[03:00:24]

mythfan_:

it not directly from amazon.ca

[03:00:35]

wagnerrp:

odd... mythbackend is sitting at 40% on one core

[03:00:49]

mythfan_:

you are lucky to live is USA

[03:00:50]

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wagnerrp:

anyone know off hand how to lock an iphone?

[03:32:26]

wagnerrp:

i need to tell my sister so she stops butt-dialing me

[03:33:04]

[R]:

doesnt it automatically lock hwen you turn the screen off?

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[03:34:27]

wagnerrp:

well i had just hung up with her

[03:34:35]

wagnerrp:

so its possible the screen hadnt turned off yet

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[R]:

lol

[03:35:24]

[R]:

thats what the button is for...

[03:35:41]

wagnerrp:

button....

[03:36:13]

[R]:

isnt there a button to turn it off? it seems like there is

[03:36:25]

[R]:

that stupid thing at the bottom center

[03:36:26]

wagnerrp:

i dont have one... hence my asking

[03:36:37]

[R]:

i think if you hold it down

[03:36:40]

[R]:

it might turn off the screen

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iamlindoro:

Lock screen is button on top, on right

[03:47:59]

iamlindoro:

bottom center is Home button, just takes you to the menu/app screen

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[03:49:05]

[R]:

oh well

[03:49:08]

[R]:

stupid iphone

[03:51:48]

iamlindoro:

It's stupid because... ?

[03:54:13]

[R]:

lol

[03:54:36]

[R]:

i'm a hater

[03:54:39]

[R]:

haters gotta hate

[03:54:49]

[R]:

just like this guy at my work is an android hater and he just hates on android

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[04:55:33]

sphery:

hehe, there's a 15min ad on YouTube that plays before you see the video you went to

[04:58:02]

wagnerrp:

15 minutes?

[04:58:21]

sphery:

yeah... Ron Paul ad by Endorse Liberty... had to watch about 3min to figure out what it was

[04:59:01]

sphery:

wonder if they actually have it set up so it only plays for US viewers

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dekarl_zZz:

do we have a "MythTV wants *you*" page somewhere with non-coding tasks that would help the project for users to take? Like performing a benchmark on OOB Mythbuntu on *one ext4 formatted disk with barriers enabled* compared to the same but mysql optimized according to wiki/script compared to separate disks for recording and database?

[08:48:06]

wagnerrp:

there are a handful of such pages

[08:48:22]

wagnerrp:

vdpau, HD audio, and commflagging all have one

[08:50:00]

dekarl_zZz:

Pages that collect user stats? I was thinking more in terms of a "help us" page that could be on the front page next to "Wishlist" (aka your wishlist vs. our wishlist :)

[08:50:33]

wagnerrp:

yeah, nothing as such to enumerate them

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wagnerrp:

hahahahahahahaha

[09:55:29]

wagnerrp:

blind pete uses such a large font

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Froolap:

Hiyas, anyone home?

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[17:09:31]

stuartm:

is anyone else unable to save date/hour formats in 0.24's mythweb?

[17:15:11]

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[17:21:23]

LedHed:

can anyone here recommend a quiet SATA DVD-ROM (or burner)? My old Optiarc is getting crazy loud.

[17:21:40]

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[17:21:52]

wagnerrp:

stick it in the backend, and rip the content to a hard drive

[17:22:14]

LedHed:

I mostly use it for redbox movies.

[17:22:34]

sphery:

stuartm: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9967 + http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9833

[17:23:24]

LedHed:

wagnerrp, I dont think mythtv has a dvd rip function anymore.

[17:23:30]

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[17:23:41]

wagnerrp:

im going to go with sphery's idea on that one... just use a physical dvd player

[17:24:03]

wagnerrp:

decent progressive scan ones go for ~$30 at your nearest electronics store

[17:24:09]

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[17:24:18]

sphery:

never have to worry about movies failing to play back that way, either

[17:24:23]

LedHed:

I'd rather have it all in one unit

[17:24:38]

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[17:24:41]

stuartm:

sphery: ah-hah

[17:24:48]

sphery:

large case + some screws and that will be possible... ;)

[17:25:05]

LedHed:

kinda seems pointless to have a HTPC that cant play DVD's

[17:25:37]

stuartm:

LedHed: I've got a couple of dirt cheap Lite-On drives that are quiet enough

[17:25:48]

sphery:

well, there is the whole issue of not being allowed to play them back legally on GNU/Linux

[17:26:03]

sphery:

but I suppose you could get a Windows-based HTPC...

[17:26:10]

sphery:

anyway, just one approach

[17:26:16]

LedHed:

sphery, thats true.

[17:26:33]

sphery:

stuartm: I'm sure kor moc/xr is would be happy for you to apply it (and close out both tickets)

[17:26:43]

LedHed:

but being that I've been playing them back on linux for almost a decade, I dont really care.

[17:27:28]

sphery:

LedHed: I just figure if they're going to make it hard to play back DVDs on generic GNU/Linux, might as well do something else that's easy

[17:28:01]

LedHed:

I see your point. I just dont want to hastle with another stb and cables

[17:28:08]

LedHed:

not to mention another remote

[17:28:09]

stuartm:

fwiw, playback of DVDs via mythtv works well for me, especially since the recent libdvdnav resyncs

[17:28:18]

sphery:

that is the downside

[17:29:23]

stuartm:

and I don't agree with the position of my fellow devs on this issue, just buy a new drive, you can get them for less than £15 inc postage these days

[17:30:43]

LedHed:

just ordered a lite-on

[17:30:45]

stuartm:

DVD-R/RW capable too (if you want pointless features like Lightscribe it costs a tiny bit more)

[17:30:55]

LedHed:

for $15 its worth a shot.

[17:31:23]

stuartm:

LedHed: fwiw, in 0.24 you can set the drive speed used, it really doesn't need to be more than 2x (the minimum)

[17:31:50]

LedHed:

thats cool. maybe I'll try that with my Optiarc.

[17:31:58]

LedHed:

where do I find that setting.

[17:32:03]

stuartm:

in 0.25 we've dropped the setting and use 1x which is sufficient and obviously the quietest

[17:32:27]

stuartm:

LedHed: it's a little buried, under Media > Video settings somewhere

[17:32:27]

LedHed:

is 0.25 out

[17:32:33]

stuartm:

not yet

[17:32:34]

LedHed:

I just upgraded to 0.24

[17:32:37]

LedHed:

oh ok

[17:32:48]

stuartm:

soon though

[17:33:14]

LedHed:

ugh. the 0.24 upgrade was a nightmare for me. I'm not ready for that again.

[17:33:21]

LedHed:

not a myth issue though

[17:33:24]

stuartm:

Media > Video > General I think

[17:33:45]

LedHed:

my backend also hosts a VM and vBox gave me a lot of grief

[17:34:00]

LedHed:

stuartm, thanks

[17:34:17]

sphery:

LedHed: so it was distro upgrade that caused problems (just wondering)

[17:34:45]

LedHed:

sphery, ya. went from Ubuntu 9.10 to 10.04 LTS

[17:34:46]

wagnerrp:

apparently AMD and Intel plan on removing their VGA ports by 2015

[17:34:48]

wagnerrp:

... about time

[17:35:00]

stuartm:

that late?

[17:35:08]

LedHed:

ya analog is so well, analog

[17:35:08]

sphery:

LedHed: ah, yeah... distro upgrades can be a challenge because so much of the underlying changes that it requires re-learning a lot

[17:35:50]

sphery:

wagnerrp: and then we'll all be using Thunderbolt--except those who are using Lightning Bolt

[17:36:02]

LedHed:

sphery, ya. thats why I went with LTS, hopefully Mythbuntu will backport 0.25 to 10.04 LTS

[17:36:17]

sphery:

after all, universal connections are so, er, boring

[17:36:29]

stuartm:

DVI has supported analogue since it's introduction anyway and DVI->VGA converters are available and cheap – so it's really a mystery why it's taking so long to drop VGA

[17:36:58]

LedHed:

I think everything should just be USB

[17:36:58]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: DVI too

[17:37:05]

LedHed:

or HDMI

[17:37:12]

** wagnerrp wonders if LedHed is serious **

[17:37:13]

sphery:

DisplayPort ftw!\

[17:37:18]

LedHed:

wagnerrp, lol

[17:37:52]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: i mean theyre phasing out VGA and DVI

[17:38:17]

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[17:38:24]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: heh, well that's interesting although I guess not that strange

[17:38:54]

wagnerrp:

LedHed: USB1.1 and 2.0 are junk, nothing like sufficient performance for any form of bulk transfer

[17:39:00]

wagnerrp:

much less low latency video

[17:39:08]

stuartm:

one of my two monitors has no HDMI port, but I can't see myself still owning it in 3 years time

[17:39:09]

LedHed:

actually I think HDMI is capable of almost 5GB/s, so if you were going to create a universal connector (for everything not just video) HDMI would me sufficient

[17:39:14]

sphery:

Thunderbolt and Lightning Bolt can carry a DisplayPort connection along with USB and PCIe... but, of course, there has to be 2

[17:39:23]

wagnerrp:

USB3.0 is significantly better in terms of performance and throughput

[17:39:42]

wagnerrp:

but still insufficient for anything beyond common monitors

[17:39:44]

LedHed:

wagnerrp, I was joking

[17:39:45]

sphery:

oh, and power, too

[17:40:13]

wagnerrp:

USB3.0 would be comparable to single-link DVI in terms of capabilities

[17:40:14]

sphery:

think he was commenting because of my multiple standards comment

[17:40:25]

LedHed:

yup

[17:41:27]

stuartm:

it should be interesting to see what that news does to monitors since a significant number still lack Displayport or *bolt or anything beyond hdmi

[17:41:40]

sphery:

that said, I'm pretty sure Lightning Bolt will only be used for laptop-internal stuff

[17:42:13]

wagnerrp:

i doubt HDMI is going anywhere any time soon

[17:42:56]

sphery:

I'd much rather see DisplayPort win... It's HDMI with fewer licensing/patent issues

[17:43:00]

wagnerrp:

as to whether it will continue to be backwards compatible with DVI-SL devices, i dont know

[17:43:05]

stuartm:

it's here to stay, too widely adopted for too many different devices

[17:43:34]

wagnerrp:

not to mention significantly higher performance

[17:44:29]

wagnerrp:

nearly double that of HDMI

[17:45:03]

sphery:

which is double hdmi?

[17:45:06]

sphery:

dp?

[17:45:09]

wagnerrp:

yes

[17:45:11]

stuartm:

tablets, cameras, phones, TVs, monitors, PCs/Laptops – if VGA/DVI are the past and Displayport/*bolt are the future then HDMI is the present so expect it to last as long as VGA did after the arrival of HDMI/DVI

[17:45:11]

sphery:

cool

[17:45:25]

sphery:

stuartm: hehe, yeah

[17:45:36]

sphery:

I know there's a mini-DP... is there also a mini-HDMI?

[17:45:43]

stuartm:

sphery: yep

[17:45:55]

sphery:

:(... was hoping that would be dp's leg up

[17:45:55]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: sure, but i could see them dropping the backwards compatibility mode from the TMDS transmitter

[17:45:57]

stuartm:

used on the aforementioned cameras and some tablets

[17:46:14]

wagnerrp:

at the very least, you wouldnt be able to use dual-link monitors

[17:46:46]

sphery:

I'm pretty sure, though, that there's no equivalent to HDMI's Mobile High-Definition Link (MHL) for DP, though... i.e. like: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/01/r . . . mart-tvs.ars

[17:46:53]

sphery:

which I think is the way smart TV's should be done

[17:46:55]

stuartm:

and by cameras I'm including the photographic variety along with 'video' cameras

[17:46:58]

likwid--_:

wagnerrp, you told me that there is little connection between a recorded show and a reording schedule after the fact. i havent been transcoding as part of my schedule. how does one transcode/export on already recorded shows (honoring commercial breaks)

[17:47:15]

sphery:

i.e. why embed a cheap computer into an expensive display, where you can't upgrade the computer without throwing out the display

[17:47:42]

wagnerrp:

likwid--_: you use mythtranscode, or some user job

[17:47:54]

wagnerrp:

sphery: because it lets you sell another expensive display in a couple years

[17:48:10]

wagnerrp:

even if you havent made any significant advancements in display tech to otherwise warrant a new purchase

[17:48:17]

stuartm:

sphery: wasn't it Samsung at CES that announced a TV with upgradable components?

[17:48:19]

sphery:

hehe, yeah... guess I forgot to mention I'm asking from a consumer's standpoint, not a vendor's :)

[17:48:32]

sphery:

stuartm: could be... don't remember that one

[17:48:45]

sphery:

oh, wait, yeah... it was box on the inside

[17:48:54]

sphery:

I'm guessing, though, it's all samsung proprietary

[17:49:09]

sphery:

after all, why let someone choose with a standard like MHL

[17:50:00]

wagnerrp:

because with MHL, you have a bunch of sticks awkwardly hanging off the back side of the TV

[17:50:52]

sphery:

stuartm: http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/09/samsungs-sm . . . lves-at-ces/ ... "The company's 2012 lineup of televisions will also feature rear upgrade slots, which will allow you to plug in faster hardware down the line. Baxter said the upgrade hardware that plugs into the TV sets will be available in 2013, but otherwise he didnâ't have many details to share on how the upgrade process wors works."

[17:51:26]

stuartm:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16480712

[17:51:35]

stuartm:

heh, took me ages to find that

[17:52:23]

wagnerrp:

sphery: it would appear MHL is a completely independent technology, and has nothing to do with HDMI

[17:52:32]

sphery:

wagnerrp: isn't MHL a separate connection on the TV from the main HDMI? If so, just stick it behind a panel (or sticking out sideways or whatever)

[17:52:56]

wagnerrp:

its yet another connection format

[17:53:28]

sphery:

ah, yeah, it seems it can be used with any connection (including micro USB), but some have used it with HDMI

[17:53:40]

sphery:

ok, cool--that means it will work with DP, too :)

[17:54:08]

wagnerrp:

well it wont "work with DP"

[17:54:24]

wagnerrp:

you basically have to have two separate drivers, switched into a single port

[17:54:52]

sphery:

right, but I mean you could have a tv with dp and mhl

[17:55:08]

sphery:

not that I expect to ever see tvs with dp

[17:55:29]

sphery:

I think hdmi is here to stay on consumer electronics and dp will only really make inroads in computers/computer monitors

[17:56:16]

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[17:57:51]

stuartm:

right, it makes little sense to move away from hdmi, but that's also why I expect hdmi to stay on computers/monitors indefinitely because consumers are used to that convergence – being able to plug a dumb monitor to their blu-ray player or their laptops to a TV

[17:59:10]

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[18:02:32]

sphery:

stuartm: yeah, which completely removes all benefit of DP (which is lower cost for manufacturers--something that was supposed to be of interest to computer hardware manufacturers, since margins are so slim on their products, anymore)

[18:02:40]

tgm4883:

LedHed, we already do

[18:06:00]

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[18:06:04]

stuartm:

sphery: it sucks but we are where we are :) Betamax vs VHS, HD-DVD vs Blu-ray and the rest – the best tech doesn't always win and it's definitely not in the end-users best interests to have another battle which results in incompatibilities and new purchases being immediately obsolete

[18:06:16]

sphery:

yeah, agreed

[18:06:22]

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[18:06:26]

stuartm:

s/being/becoming/

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[18:55:55]

Froolap:

is there a listing of supported hardware, or prefered hardware for video capture for burning to dvd?

[18:56:39]

Froolap:

I would like to bypass the software conversion process that eats my computer for a day.

[18:56:43]

wagnerrp:

any video capture you should be doing on FIOS should be pre-compressed digital straight off the cable

[19:00:23]

wagnerrp:

in any case, for what purpose are you burning to DVD?

[19:00:46]

wagnerrp:

for archival purposes, its really just not worth the time should you ever need to recover from those DVDs

[19:01:37]

wagnerrp:

for portability, at least personally i would have to consider getting one of those 'media tanks'

[19:02:08]

wagnerrp:

basically, a external hard drive case, with an embedded computer and video outputs

[19:02:55]

stuartm:

Froolap: rewinding a little, can you just clarify what you mean by 'video capture' before we head off down the wrong track

[19:03:34]

wagnerrp:

im assuming he wants a card that will record in a format directly compatible with DVDs

[19:03:42]

likwid--_:

will autodetect (trancoding profiles) always choose high for HD

[19:03:44]

wagnerrp:

i.e. an IVTV tuner, rather than a framegrabber with NUVs

[19:03:50]

stuartm:

if you're talking about transferring old home video to DVD that's a different situation with different solutions to saving your tv/cable recordings

[19:04:12]

wagnerrp:

but being on FIOS, he shouldnt be using a framegrabber, or an IVTV card, or even an HDPVR

[19:04:30]

wagnerrp:

for everything but the premiums, he should be recording digital

[19:04:30]

Froolap:

video capture for burning to dvd... assuming s-video input. what other info do you require? goal is to preserve on dvd.

[19:04:36]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: right, unless he's not duplicating recordings

[19:05:27]

stuartm:

PVR-150 used to be the go-to device for that, but I believe it's no longer available

[19:05:36]

wagnerrp:

its available used

[19:05:47]

wagnerrp:

hasnt been available retail since, probably 2007

[19:06:04]

wagnerrp:

but the -1600/-1850/-2250 are functionally similar

[19:07:55]

Froolap:

I just got done spending a week fiddeling with the hauppauge winTV=hvr 2250 to discover analoge support in drivers wasn't out of beta, mythdora went desupport, v4l is being surpassed by v4l2, so everything seems in a state of chaos now.

[19:08:36]

Froolap:

I'm going to replace the video capture card I have now, hoping for one that will natively capture to dvd standard format.

[19:08:43]

wagnerrp:

there are several people in this channel using the -2250 with V4L2 and mythtv just fine

[19:08:53]

wagnerrp:

Froolap: this is analog capture off a FIOS cable box?

[19:09:26]

wagnerrp:

actually, i expect the -2250 driver was only ever v4l2, and never had to be converted from v4l1

[19:10:12]

Froolap:

brighthouse, but yeah pretty much. I don't like the business model of tvio.

[19:10:54]

wagnerrp:

you logged in from a FIOS address, i figured you were using them for tv

[19:11:07]

Froolap:

looking ro replace my philips set top drv

[19:11:32]

wagnerrp:

i ask that because at least on FIOS, everything but the premium channels will be 'copy freely'

[19:11:35]

Froolap:

Good guess. I'm not a fan of bundled services. I like to keep my options open.

[19:12:02]

wagnerrp:

meaning instead of screwing around with several STBs and several analog capture devices, with whatever monthly charge you get per device

[19:12:23]

wagnerrp:

you get a single cablecard tuner, and rent a single cablecard to slot into it, and record directly

[19:12:52]

wagnerrp:

verizon and comcast work well with it, time warner does not... brighthouse, no idea

[19:13:18]

Froolap:

rent? firse I've heard of renting a pc-card.

[19:13:22]

Froolap:

err first

[19:13:43]

wagnerrp:

'cablecard' is a conditional access and DRM system used by digital cable in the US

[19:14:12]

wagnerrp:

your cable box has one built in, you may even see a slot in the back (perhaps covered with sheet metal) for inserting one

[19:14:45]

Froolap:

I see a couplf of firewire ports, but afraid to plug anything into it.

[19:14:50]

wagnerrp:

while a full cable box rental might be $10/mo for one channel, an m-card rental might be $3/mo for up to 6 channels

[19:15:32]

wagnerrp:

there are currently cablecard tuners on the market capable of accepting these cards, and receiving 2, 3, and 4 simultaneous channels out of it

[19:16:58]

wagnerrp:

what im getting at is that if you are recording off of a cable box, with a provider that marks their content 'copy freely' such that mythtv is allowed to record them, switching to a cablecard tuner is the cost effective solution

[19:17:15]

wagnerrp:

if youre recording off multiple cable boxes, it will pay for itself in very short order

[19:17:53]

wagnerrp:

in addition the fact that youre getting a digital recording, rather than something downscaled, converted to analog, and then back into digital

[19:17:57]

skd5aner:

... that is, if your cable co isn't stupid

[19:18:23]

wagnerrp:

this was just a recommendation in general, independent of your DVD burning query

[19:18:38]

Froolap:

My philipss dvr respects the do not copy thing. but only saw that message come up once. :) So I'm not overly concerned there.

[19:19:08]

wagnerrp:

well that may not be quite the same

[19:19:25]

wagnerrp:

there are three different protection levels, 'copy freely', 'copy once', and 'copy never'

[19:19:39]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is an unlicensed application, meaning it can only access the first

[19:19:39]

Froolap:

Never heard of these cablecard tuners before. what would I look for to find more information about them? Maybe a picture of one and a description would get me moving in some direction. Thanks.

[19:19:58]

skd5aner:

!url lmgtfy cablecard

[19:19:58]

MythLogBot:

lmgtfy: http://lmgtfy.com?q=cablecard

[19:20:16]

wagnerrp:

something like the tivo can access 'copy freely', but does not support exporting to other devices

[19:20:38]

wagnerrp:

it also supports 'copy never', but restricts you to viewing it in a 90-minute rolling window

[19:20:42]

wagnerrp:

WMC behaves the same

[19:20:53]

wagnerrp:

i dont know how your phillips DVR may have behaved

[19:21:15]

Froolap:

That's what I'm trying to get around. I have a 400 disc dvd player and I don't like the idea of a hd dying and taking everything with it.

[19:21:20]

wagnerrp:

however, if you dont know what cablecard is, then chances are you dont have one installed in your phillips DVR

[19:21:45]

Froolap:

It connects to s-video, just like a vcr.

[19:22:04]

skd5aner:

so you want to archive recordings to DVD within your DVD carousel?

[19:22:08]

Froolap:

stores content to hd so that it can be edited before being burned to dvd.

[19:22:11]

skd5aner:

s-vide is crap

[19:22:15]

wagnerrp:

if its recording svideo, then it would have been CGMS-A

[19:22:18]

wagnerrp:

a completely independent system

[19:22:43]

wagnerrp:

have you actually tried playing these old recordings?

[19:22:59]

wagnerrp:

your generic bulk DVD media has a relatively short lifetime

[19:23:04]

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[19:23:09]

skd5aner:

For the same price as 400 DVD-Rs, you could get a 2TB HD

[19:23:15]

skd5aner:

probably even more

[19:23:17]

wagnerrp:

i would bet 5–10% of them are no longer playable

[19:23:20]

Froolap:

Yup, works like a charm. Nice as I can plug my cam corder into it for saving my home movies too.

[19:23:29]

njustinc1 (njustinc1!~eng501@rrcs-24-97-92-161.nys.biz.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:24:03]

wagnerrp:

if youre worried about a drive dying, get two and mirror them

[19:24:37]

sphery:

or get lucky and notice it just as the drive starts to die, and only lose 2 of 283 recordings

[19:24:50]

wagnerrp:

or have one or two scratch disks that you use for temporary recordings, and then shuffle them over to an archival RAID5/6 array

[19:25:01]

Froolap:

That's not an option I care to persue. Trying to resilver a mirror and playing backup/recovery for raid is too difficult for me.

[19:25:27]

kormoc:

resolver? Really, you plug a drive in and add it to the array and it manages the rest

[19:25:28]

** kormoc shrugs **

[19:25:42]

likwid--_:

wagnerrp, trying to understand your mythvidexport.py. the parameter for honoring commercial detection. that is not creating a new file without the commercials is it? doesnt that happen in transcoding

[19:25:49]

kormoc:

the only answer is… TO THE CLOUD! (For the low price of 12 million a month)

[19:26:11]

Froolap:

Then there's the battle of software raid vs hardware raid, and by the time I'm done spending 400 for a nas that does mirroring and then buying the drives and then...

[19:26:22]

wagnerrp:

likwid--_: all that script does is copy the raw file from your recordings storage group to your videos storage group

[19:26:26]

sphery:

kormoc: so, tried to fail that upgrade with Qt 4.6.2 and MySQL 5.1 and 5.5, Qt 4.7.3 and MySQL 5.1, and Qt 4.8.0 and MySQL 5.1 and 5.5... never failed. I'm 99.9999% positive that OpenSUSE is setting strict mode sql

[19:26:43]

wagnerrp:

the additional options will copy the database markup for seek and skip tables as well

[19:26:55]

sphery:

on the bright side, though, I now have a nice selection of Qt's to choose from for testing

[19:27:17]

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[19:28:06]

sphery:

(though all that compiling with different Qts did a number on my ccache... currently rebuilding ccache for 4.7.3, which I plan to use for most dev--since 4.8.0 is /very/ slow on ssh X forwarding)

[19:28:08]

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[19:28:23]

likwid--_:

wagnerrp, oh i didnt guess that videos would have the skip tables also. which becomes unneeded if the transcode takes care of the commercials anyhow?

[19:28:59]

wagnerrp:

if you transcode to clip out the commercials, the transcoder will automatically flush all that data out when its finished

[19:29:07]

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[19:29:09]

wagnerrp:

even if you tell mythvidexport to copy it, there will be nothing to copy

[19:29:34]

likwid--_:

ok.

[19:29:52]

Froolap:

I suppose the long and the short of it is that there is no listing of supported hardware, which was my original question

[19:30:14]

wagnerrp:

you said you have an HVR-2250

[19:30:29]

wagnerrp:

that is supported, used by many mythtv users, and will record in a format directly usable on DVD

[19:30:40]

Froolap:

HAD, I gave it away as the card isn't fully supported. I wish to replace the card.

[19:30:59]

wagnerrp:

thats the card we would be recommending

[19:31:10]

wagnerrp:

(or an HVR-1600, or an old used PVR-150)

[19:31:18]

Froolap:

The analoge side is in beta, and I couldn't get anything out of it after more than a week.

[19:32:07]

wagnerrp:

analog support for that card was officially merged into the kernel like 5–6 releases ago

[19:33:19]

Froolap:

well, after messing around with firmware file not found. I never got past the No First Image, and never saw video on my screen, regardless of connection used.

[19:33:34]

kormoc:

sphery, according to extracting http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/12. . . . m.mirrorlist the my.cnf doesn't have a stict mode set

[19:33:44]

kormoc:

sphery, is it just one guy or a pile of them?

[19:34:17]

sphery:

one guy that I know of

[19:34:33]

wagnerrp:

Froolap: with a modern distro, it should have "just worked"

[19:34:40]

sphery:

I asked him to run a query to check sql_mode, but he hasn't yet responded

[19:35:05]

wagnerrp:

im guessing the reason it didnt was because you were trying to use mythdora, which is still using an over two-year-old 2.6.31 kernel

[19:35:17]

sphery:

I think your suggestion of (un)setting sql_mode explicitly makes a lot of sense

[19:35:41]

sphery:

I think this came up before with some Windows users who were trying to run mysql on windows, where strict modes seems to be the default, but I guess we didn't change it

[19:35:58]

kormoc:

Yeah, we just had them fix it by hand and continued on

[19:36:53]

wagnerrp:

sphery: re the mythccextract guy, i dont think hes actually a mythtv user

[19:37:00]

Froolap:

wag with a fresh download of fedora, it dodn't just work.

[19:37:09]

wagnerrp:

fedora... 16?

[19:37:11]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ahhh... that makes things harder for him

[19:37:28]

Froolap:

fedora 12, 13, 14, 16, none of the above.

[19:37:39]

wagnerrp:

sphery: well i mean i think hes trying to migrate from some other backend

[19:37:59]

wagnerrp:

so he really has nothing stored to be concerned about upgrading his database to unstable

[19:38:37]

Froolap:

and the last time I tried to get to the guys blog that wrote the firmware that tells how to extract it his page was off line which is when I discovered v4l was EOL and v4l2 was replacing.

[19:38:49]

Froolap:

So I dunno where anything stands now.

[19:38:58]

sphery:

oh, I see what you mean

[19:39:00]

sphery:

that could well be

[19:39:12]

sphery:

I just wanted to give fair warning, though...

[19:39:21]

wagnerrp:

V4L1 was really EOL'd several years ago

[19:39:54]

wagnerrp:

it just took until some time last year before all the legacy drivers were migrated over to V4L2, and the last remnants of V4L1 removed from the kernel

[19:40:00]

sphery:

Froolap: fwiw, what kernel are you using?

[19:40:05]

sphery:

!url tuners

[19:40:08]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[19:40:20]

devinheitmueller:

V4L1 was EOL'd about eight years ago. They just never yanked out the support until a few months ago, at which point all the applications broke (since they never bothered to remove the deprecated support from the apps).

[19:40:21]

wagnerrp:

which means the saa7164 drivers should have been V4L2 based, since they were first written

[19:40:46]

sphery:

you really need 2.6.37+ for 2250 ( http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_PCIe_Cards )

[19:40:57]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: the 7164 has always been V4L2. My guess is he had that version of MythTV that was missing the analog support since the V4L1 headers were absent.

[19:41:05]

Froolap:

shphery I've reinstalled and yup upgrade so many times I couldn't tell ya, but last I looked I had 4 different kernels on my last install.

[19:41:18]

sphery:

devinheitmueller: that's exactly why I don't believe in a transition period... it just delays the breakage since no one plans for it

[19:41:30]

devinheitmueller:

My guess is this is some form of user error (i.e. lack of understanding how analog capture works under Linux)

[19:41:36]

sphery:

wagnerrp: and thus, don't believe in leaving in mythcommflag --rebuild, etc... :)

[19:41:42]

Froolap:

I'm just trying to get some documentation, supported hardware and required sofware to get from point a to point c without ommitting point b.

[19:42:08]

devinheitmueller:

sphery: the cost of maintaining the backward compatibility was low (until recently), and it did give applications that were diligent the opportunity to fix their problems.

[19:42:25]

wagnerrp:

and were telling you, for what you specifically state you want to accomplish, the -2250, -1850, -1600, or old -150 are what you want

[19:42:29]

devinheitmueller:

s/applications/application developers/

[19:43:01]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: I probably wouldn't yet recommend the 1850. It would require a kernel that hasn't been released yet, and it hasn't really had any burnin time with Mythtv.

[19:43:22]

wagnerrp:

ah, i knew you mentioned it had been fixed, but didnt know the time frame

[19:43:26]

sphery:

devinheitmueller: yeah, for us, the main cost is that we have a history of forgetting to remove the old stuff, and people continue to do new stuff with it

[19:43:27]

Froolap:

wagnerrp I guess that what you are telling me is that there is no documentation. Is that correct?

[19:43:28]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: that said, I would be willing to loan you an 1850 board if you were willing to do such testing.

[19:43:56]

wagnerrp:

sphery gave you the documentation way back

[19:43:57]

sphery:

but then again, I've always been a "rip the bandage off" kind of guy

[19:44:00]

wagnerrp:

!url tuners

[19:44:00]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[19:44:17]

wagnerrp:

those are the recording devices we support

[19:44:32]

wagnerrp:

we dont actually support them, the linuxtv project does, and we just access the recording interfaces

[19:44:40]

sphery:

Froolap: + http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_PCIe_Cards (which says you need kernel 2.6.37+) and http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-2250 for specifics

[19:44:44]

wagnerrp:

there are a few exceptions where we have conflicts with the drivers

[19:45:08]

wagnerrp:

and there are a few devices that we support independent of those interfaces, like firewire capture, or the HDHomeRun family of devices

[19:45:19]

sphery:

yes, and magicians like devinheitmueller make those interfaces work for us

[19:46:10]

wagnerrp:

Froolap: for your specific application, you may want to see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Analog_Hardware_Encoder_Cards#NTSC

[19:46:38]

wagnerrp:

but understand that what you want to do is very much counter to the designed intent of mythtv

[19:46:44]

Froolap:

Thank you, copying all url's for further study. Thanks again.

[19:48:02]

wagnerrp:

that intent being to record and store the content indefinitely on hard drive for later playback

[19:48:06]

sphery:

"WARNING: disabling MythWeather; missing JSON"... But, I don't even know Jason

[19:48:16]

wagnerrp:

rather than just as a temporary buffer for burning to DVD

[19:48:33]

wagnerrp:

im guessing thats perl JSON

[19:48:49]

wagnerrp:

since python's is integrated

[19:48:49]

sphery:

yeah, it is

[19:49:22]

sphery:

will get it installed eventually... just first time I've compiled plugins since Bei rdo added it

[19:49:47]

wagnerrp:

you have your test box up and running again?

[19:50:10]

sphery:

(but thanks for info--I was actually looking at the configure code to find out which it was when you were telling me over here)

[19:50:23]

sphery:

yeah, it wasn't broken or anything--was just about 1500 miles away from me

[19:50:37]

sphery:

I'm back home, now, and catching up

[19:50:50]

sphery:

and today will commit fix for that db upgrade failure

[19:51:58]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: i thought the metadata routines had a 30-second timeout

[19:53:11]

wagnerrp:

i recall that being an issue with the daily show taking to long to download parse the episode list, to pull the episode number

[19:55:20]

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[19:57:42]

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[20:15:10]

bo:

hello

[20:15:35]

bo:

anybody here?

[20:17:54]

sphery:

just 170 of us

[20:18:33]

bo:

nobody seems to be inputting though

[20:18:55]

sphery:

you should ask a question, first, then those who can will help

[20:19:51]

bo:

ok, i looked at the listed sites but am not even sure how to search for how to set up myth tv on this cpu

[20:20:21]

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[20:21:17]

bo:

...so, i guess my question is can somebody please ask me the proper questions to setup myth tv?

[20:21:56]

sphery:

generally, compiling mythtv should be done with: ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --enable-proc-opt and nothing else... that should make it work properly for your cpu (and with optimizations)

[20:22:03]

bo:

my understanding is that i am trying to select the right capture card now

[20:22:36]

sphery:

oh, so you want to figure out what capture card to buy?

[20:23:04]

bo:

well i have a dct-6416

[20:23:24]

sphery:

(I was going to follow up my compiling comment with, "But unless you're actually changing the source code, you probably want to use packages--which are available for every distro on which it makes sense to run MythTV.")

[20:23:52]

bo:

i don't think i'm advanced enough to mess with source code

[20:24:29]

bo:

why would i use a capture card if i can just compile it on my cpu?

[20:25:06]

sphery:

I don't think I'm understanding the question

[20:25:55]

bo:

why would i use a capture card if i can do what was outlined in your compiling comment?

[20:26:08]

sphery:

You need a capture card as a way of taking an external input (from your TV provider or set-top-box or whatever) and making it available to the system. MythTV is just the software that manages the capture card to record the TV, and then makes the recordings easily accessible.

[20:26:45]

bo:

ah ok

[20:26:46]

sphery:

might want to read: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview + http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable

[20:27:30]

sphery:

where the digital cable one just gives a bit of info on different capture card types--and isn't likely to be directly useful to you

[20:27:53]

sphery:

or maybe it is...

[20:28:02]

sphery:

seems the dct-6416 is a motorola set-top-box

[20:28:30]

sphery:

bo: oh, and I think the point that we were missing is: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-23.html#ss23.15

[20:28:36]

sphery:

same applies for your dct-6416

[20:29:01]

sphery:

you need a normal computer for MythTV--with a capture card... Then you plug the output of the dct-6416 into an input on a capture card

[20:30:24]

sphery:

however, you might have other options--as specified by http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable

[20:30:51]

sphery:

those other options may make the dct-6416 unnecessary (but you'll still need a generic computer on which to run mythtv)

[20:30:59]

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[20:32:07]

bo:

o wow, there are so many ways to go about it

[20:32:22]

sphery:

yes... which makes it hard to figure out to start with

[20:32:32]

sphery:

but, IMHO, it's worth the effort in the end

[20:32:47]

sphery:

though I will say that MythTV is generally an expensive and time-consuming choice for a DVR

[20:33:07]

sphery:

however, if you put in the time and the money, you can have something much better than anything you can get from your cable/satellite provider

[20:34:15]

bo:

ok... you think it is possible to... receive "internet signal" from this cpu i am on upstairs and using my wireless router, route it to my dct-6416 downstairs that is connected to a tv monitor?

[20:34:55]

bo:

*route the myth tv front end

[20:35:36]

sphery:

you'd have to route the signal from the STB using a standard TV-type connection (RF modulated output, composite, S-Video, component, ...--in order from worst to best)

[20:35:51]

sphery:

that goes to the capture card in a computer

[20:36:12]

bo:

can'

[20:36:21]

bo:

can't route it the other way around?

[20:36:23]

sphery:

then the computer records the signal to an encoded/compressed format on the hard drive, then it can be sent to any mythfrontend box using normal IP networking

[20:36:35]

sphery:

however, generally, you don't want to use wireless--it's too slow/unreliable

[20:37:06]

bo:

ok

[20:37:07]

sphery:

so, you would put the mythbackend system next to the STB (dct-6416), then put the mythfrontend system wherever you want to actually watch TV

[20:37:36]

sphery:

that's much of the reason for the separation between backends and frontends in mythtv design

[20:37:50]

sphery:

allows putting backends out of the way wherever the tv signal comes in, but watching wherever you want

[20:38:43]

bo:

ohhh

[20:38:45]

bo:

ok...

[20:39:03]

** J-e-f-f-A 's STBs and backend are in the basement, frontends are in the Living Room and Bedrooms... ;-) **

[20:40:15]

sphery:

my frontends and backends are hidden in an out-of-the-way room (a bedroom that's currently my "junk room") with a hole through the wall to my HDTV

[20:40:38]

bo:

i think then, that i would like to do what you originally said with the compiling comment to THIS cpu, and THEN have an output from the myth tv frontend to the STB, which will then component out to the monitor

[20:40:47]

sphery:

just ran the TV and speaker wires through the wall, and I have an "invisible" media center setup

[20:41:02]

bo:

yeah, that's about how it would be with this potential setup for me

[20:41:13]

sphery:

bo: remember "THIS cpu" can not be the dct-6416

[20:41:20]

bo:

right

[20:41:25]

bo:

it's not

[20:41:33]

sphery:

ok, just making sure we're talking about the same thing

[20:41:56]

bo:

this cpu/myth tv front end would output to the STB

[20:42:00]

J-e-f-f-A:

STB -> Myth Backend -> Network -> Myth Frontend(s)

[20:42:08]

sphery:

but... ^^^ yea

[20:42:20]

sphery:

frontend = playback of recordings

[20:42:33]

bo:

that's how you have it set up jeff?

[20:42:36]

J-e-f-f-A:

bo: The STB becomes a TUNER for the Backend.

[20:42:37]

sphery:

backend = recorder (which means it must have access to the source--meaning the dct-6416)

[20:42:48]

sphery:

that's the only way to set it up

[20:42:59]

bo:

huh?

[20:43:07]

bo:

what about the way u said originally?

[20:43:11]

J-e-f-f-A:

bo: Then you have a Myth Frontend, that's basically the 'STB' of Myth.

[20:43:17]

sphery:

and, more specifically: STB -> Myth Backend -> Network -> Myth Frontend(s) -> TV or monitor

[20:43:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

yeah

[20:43:31]

sphery:

i.e. you don't connect the STB to the TV, you connect mythfrontend to the TV

[20:43:43]

bo:

lol, oh yeah

[20:43:50]

bo:

don't even need the STB in the middle

[20:44:03]

sphery:

right, only need it at the backend

[20:44:09]

bo:

?

[20:44:25]

wagnerrp:

bo: mythbackend records analog output from the STB using a capture card

[20:44:25]

sphery:

but, depending wher eyou live, you might be able to get rid of the STB completely (as mentioned at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable )

[20:44:43]

wagnerrp:

mythbackend then streams that content over the network to mythfrontend, which outputs to your tv

[20:44:46]

sphery:

i.e. if you can do CI/CAM or CableCARD

[20:44:55]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no, time warner... cablecard isnt an option

[20:45:17]

sphery:

you're very good at spotting the where

[20:45:21]

sphery:

I always miss that

[20:45:41]

bo:

isn't it possible to use the internetwork to record the signal i want to watch?

[20:45:47]

sphery:

do you have an auto-dig script or something?

[20:45:56]

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[20:46:12]

sphery:

internetwork = internet or your own internal network?

[20:46:14]

J-e-f-f-A:

re: cablecard – I read somewhere recently that it *is* an option for VZ FiOS... Supposedly everything is open right now?

[20:46:22]

sphery:

if internet, then no

[20:46:33]

bo:

well whatever can connect to myth tv backend

[20:46:39]

bo:

i thought internet

[20:46:44]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A,

[20:47:01]

wagnerrp:

not quite everything, but you only miss out on the premium channels

[20:47:04]

J-e-f-f-A:

(not for bo, for me. ;-) )

[20:47:31]

sphery:

closest to recording over a network is IPTV, which isn't generally possible--no one wants to send video out over IP, where it's harder to protect/control than on a cable system or whatever

[20:47:32]

wagnerrp:

bo: what do you mean, using the internet to record?

[20:47:49]

wagnerrp:

well some do, but its rare

[20:47:57]

bo:

the "network recorder" card type

[20:48:06]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Humm... I wonder how old that post was – they claimed that even the premiums were accessible on FiOS. Maybe just in their region, I dunno. Probably 'safer' to stick with the HD-PVRs anyways. ;-)

[20:48:15]

wagnerrp:

mythtv has support for "proper" IPTV, where "proper" means TS streams over multicast networking

[20:48:21]

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[20:48:27]

bo:

(i am in the capture card setup)

[20:48:54]

wagnerrp:

bo: chances are the network recorder is not for you

[20:49:07]

bo:

who is it for?

[20:49:17]

sphery:

a few people in France?

[20:49:40]

wagnerrp:

people in an area serviced by someone who provides IPTV, in the form of RTP/RTSP over multicast networking

[20:49:57]

wagnerrp:

specifically, a few people in northern france, and a handful of other providers around the world

[20:50:06]

bo:

ok

[20:50:08]

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[20:50:21]

wagnerrp:

US cable providers do not offer any usable form of IPTV

[20:50:36]

sphery:

in general, the short story is that your options are determined by where you live and which providers service your area

[20:50:40]

bo:

sphery: what were you saying at the beginning then about compiling it so i can watch on this cpu?

[20:50:51]

sphery:

for TWC users, the choices are generally analog capture

[20:50:55]

wagnerrp:

bo: ignore anything about 'compiling'

[20:51:04]

sphery:

yes, you should be using packages

[20:51:05]

wagnerrp:

you said you wanted to get mythtv running on "this cpu"

[20:51:08]

bo:

wagner: ?

[20:51:19]

sphery:

so you install Mythbuntu or something on a normal computer

[20:51:29]

sphery:

http://www.mythbuntu.org/

[20:51:33]

bo:

i am running ubuntu now

[20:51:34]

wagnerrp:

which implies you were wanting to specially apply compile-time optimizations for the particular processor family you are running on

[20:51:47]

wagnerrp:

but thats not what you meant

[20:52:03]

wagnerrp:

to a non-techie, the "CPU" is the "box on the floor with all the hardware"

[20:52:05]

sphery:

or you enable mythbuntu repos on ubuntu, then reconfigure the underlying system in ubuntu, then install mythtv 0.24.1 ( http://www.mythbuntu.org/repos )

[20:52:36]

wagnerrp:

to a techie, its actually a small rectangular chip, a few centimeters on each side, tucked away in that box

[20:52:42]

bo:

wagner: then i am a techie

[20:52:44]

sphery:

FWIW, mythbuntu is a much quicker way to get set up, and is probably the best bet for someone just figuring out mythtv

[20:53:04]

sphery:

(or, really, is generally the best bet for someone who wants to use mythtv--even if they've been using it for years)

[20:53:16]

wagnerrp:

bo: then why did you say you wanted to run mythtv on your CPU, rather than your computer?

[20:53:29]

** tgm4883 is confuzed **

[20:53:33]

bo:

sphery: sorry, i already have installed it

[20:53:56]

bo:

wagner: woops, "from"... thanks :)

[20:54:17]

wagnerrp:

long story short, your incorrect terminology led sphery to believe you wanted to specially compile mythtv for your particular CPU

[20:54:19]

bo:

i was just trying to set it up so i can view it from this cpu

[20:54:27]

wagnerrp:

no, not cpu, computer

[20:54:32]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, perhaps he wants to set the affinity to a specific cpu in a multicore setup? :P

[20:54:36]

wagnerrp:

you want to view it from your computer

[20:55:27]

bo:

from this central processing unit (even tho it may be dual core)

[20:55:35]

** tgm4883 sighs **

[20:55:40]

tgm4883:

CPU's don't have monitors

[20:55:46]

tgm4883:

so that could be difficult

[20:56:03]

bo:

but a cpu's output is a monitor also, no?

[20:56:09]

tgm4883:

nope

[20:56:36]

bo:

in effect?

[20:56:47]

wagnerrp:

bo: the point is, you want to run mythtv on this box you have full of all sorts of components, correct?

[20:57:00]

tgm4883:

bo, This is a CPU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Intel_80486DX2_top.jpg

[20:57:01]

wagnerrp:

your system, your computer, your box, whatever you want to call it

[20:57:19]

bo:

all sorts of components?

[20:57:20]

tgm4883:

bo, these are computers http://www.dell.com/us/p/desktops?~ck=mn

[20:57:22]

wagnerrp:

the CPU is one very small piece inside that box, that does nothing on its own without the help of all the other hardware in that box

[20:57:23]

sphery:

and at this point, you already have mythtv installed, so you just need to configure it and run it

[20:57:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

tgm4883: ooh, a good choice, a 486dx2! ;-)

[20:57:37]

kormoc:

tgm4883, but you just hook up a 9 volt to a few pins and the intel logo starts moving, no?!?!

[20:58:00]

bo:

spherry: yes

[20:58:04]

sphery:

kormoc: bubbling, right?

[20:58:12]

wagnerrp:

heh, beat me to it

[20:58:16]

tgm4883:

J-e-f-f-A, gotta have the turbo enabled :)

[20:58:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

tgm4883: I've got microcontrollers more powerful that nthat now. ;-)

[20:58:28]

J-e-f-f-A:

*than that

[20:59:02]

bo:

sphery: so, i already did the general set up with the help of a wiki...

[20:59:03]

tgm4883:

kormoc, well, if you hook it up to power, I guess the intel logo starts movings. It's more of a bubbly burning type of moving though

[20:59:27]

bo:

now i want to configure the capture card correctly right?

[20:59:33]

kormoc:

sphery, tgm4883, it's not a *great* show ;)

[20:59:47]

tgm4883:

kormoc, still better than reality TV though ;)

[21:00:22]

sphery:

hehe, true

[21:01:10]

sphery:

only thing I like about reality tv is that it means I'm not recording all of primetime from 6 channels each night--meaning I don't have to buy as many HDDs to hold all the TV I never get around to watching

[21:02:19]

bo:

sphery?

[21:02:38]

wagnerrp:

bo, what capture card, specifically?

[21:02:53]

sphery:

when will I learn never to type git log... I always seem to get the args wrong and get every single change thrown out to my console

[21:02:58]

bo:

that's what i have to figure out

[21:03:08]

tgm4883:

?

[21:03:12]

sphery:

bo: Just saying that I never record reality shows, so I have less stuff sitting around to watch

[21:03:19]

sphery:

!url tuners

[21:03:19]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[21:03:20]

wagnerrp:

you dont know? you had to have purchased it at some point

[21:03:22]

sphery:

bo ^^^

[21:03:25]

bo:

i would like to view myth tv from this monitor

[21:03:50]

** tgm4883 takes a step back **

[21:03:57]

tgm4883:

bo, do you know what mythtv is?

[21:03:58]

wagnerrp:

bo: you run an instance of 'mythfrontend' on any machine you wish to play recordings

[21:04:24]

bo:

don't think it will work, but i'll try now

[21:04:37]

bo:

tgm: somewhat

[21:04:37]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, I think you need to go more basic than that

[21:04:43]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend wont run until you have a backend to connect to

[21:04:52]

tgm4883:

bo, what is mythtv?

[21:04:56]

wagnerrp:

mythbackend wont run until you have completed configuring your tuner cards and storage

[21:06:01]

bo:

wagnerrp: hm, haven't done that

[21:06:23]

bo:

tgm: does knowing that answer help me set it up?

[21:06:42]

wagnerrp:

and you need to know what tuner/capture device you are using in order to know how to configure it in mythtv-setup

[21:07:02]

wagnerrp:

bo: tgm4883 believe you have a base misunderstanding of what mythtv is designed to do

[21:07:07]

tgm4883:

bo, it does if you think that mythtv is going to be able to let you watch internet shows and you don't have any plans on setting up a tuner

[21:07:14]

bo:

i think it is software inbetween the incoming signal and the front end

[21:07:34]

tgm4883:

bo, and how do you get the "incoming signal" into the computer?

[21:07:36]

bo:

i think tgm is prolly right lol

[21:07:38]

wagnerrp:

more correctly, it is an application to record scheduled television shows

[21:07:46]

bo:

from a capture card!

[21:07:49]

wagnerrp:

playback is ancillary to that

[21:08:01]

tgm4883:

bo, and what capture card do you have?

[21:08:16]

wagnerrp:

which means, you are intended to record now, and watch later

[21:08:17]

bo:

THAT'S what i don't know!

[21:08:24]

wagnerrp:

not watch something that is on right now

[21:08:32]

tgm4883:

bo, do you even have a capture card?

[21:08:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

"Who's on First?"

[21:08:43]

bo:

tgm: how do i know?

[21:08:50]

stuartm:

the language barrier here is painful

[21:08:58]

tgm4883:

bo, ok, lets try something else

[21:09:00]

wagnerrp:

bo: typically, its printed on the box you purchased it in

[21:09:17]

tgm4883:

can you paste the output of lspci to pastebin?

[21:09:27]

bo:

wagnerrp: the 'computer box'?

[21:09:29]

wagnerrp:

pastebin being www.pastebin.com

[21:09:35]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, thanks

[21:09:46]

bo:

wagnerrp: lol

[21:09:49]

wagnerrp:

no, the cardboard box it was packaged in at the store

[21:09:52]

** J-e-f-f-A is dying over here.......... **

[21:10:02]

tgm4883:

actually, you said I might be correct earlier. So let me ask this

[21:10:09]

tgm4883:

What are you trying to watch?

[21:10:40]

bo:

ohhh ok

[21:10:48]

bo:

that was the proper question...

[21:11:04]

bo:

i was confused about myth tv being like a hulu as well

[21:11:10]

bo:

my fault

[21:11:18]

wagnerrp:

bo: the implication of that is that generally, you would only use tuner and capture cards you purchased retail

[21:11:19]

bo:

so i was trying to see what it has to offer

[21:11:31]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to one that came in a PC, pre-installed by some OEM like dell or hp

[21:11:50]

wagnerrp:

pre-installed tuner cards are more often than not, not supported in linux

[21:11:51]

tgm4883:

bo, ok, so are you trying to record content that you are receiving though cable/satellite/Over the air?

[21:12:04]

bo:

tgm: yes

[21:12:05]

wagnerrp:

and if its not supported in linux, its almost certainly not supported in mythtv

[21:12:19]

bo:

wagnerrp: the tuner cards?

[21:12:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

bo: MythTV is a home-made Personal Video Recorder, like a TiVO, but much more capable...

[21:12:30]

bo:

jeff: ok

[21:12:35]

tgm4883:

bo, ok, then please open a terminal, and take the output of "lspci" and paste it to www.pastebin.com

[21:12:43]

stuartm:

bo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video_recorder &nda sh; This is basically what MythTV is (the software part)

[21:12:45]

tgm4883:

then give us the link

[21:12:46]

wagnerrp:

bo: which is why we need to see that lspci, to figure out what tuner card you have, and figure out if it even can be used

[21:13:09]

bo:

paste all the output?

[21:13:16]

tgm4883:

yes

[21:13:20]

tgm4883:

to pastebin.com

[21:13:24]

tgm4883:

not directly in this channel

[21:13:39]

wagnerrp:

go to that website, paste it in the box, and then give us the subsequent URL

[21:13:49]

bo:

tgm: why not directly here?

[21:14:01]

wagnerrp:

because channel rules say no more than 2 lines

[21:14:02]

tgm4883:

because wagnerrp will hunt you down if you do

[21:14:05]

kormoc:

bo, because it'll be a lot of info and not all of us care?

[21:14:08]

bo:

LOL

[21:14:11]

wagnerrp:

and freenode behavior starts rate limiting you at about 6 lines

[21:14:25]

bo:

ok ok... going to site...

[21:14:42]

wagnerrp:

so if you paste several hundred lines of 'lspci -vvvv', you will get rate limited, and the lines will slowly filter in one-by-one over the course of several minutes

[21:14:56]

wagnerrp:

except by that time, one of the several ops currently around would have kicked you

[21:14:57]

justinh:

and everybody in channel will hate you :-)

[21:14:58]

** J-e-f-f-A feels like he's dealing with a customer/user at work... **

[21:15:33]

tgm4883:

J-e-f-f-A, yea, kinda feels like that

[21:15:36]

justinh:

just for the record, MSGing people who seem interested in helping, without having asked first – is considered rude :-)

[21:16:11]

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[21:16:27]

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[21:16:29]

bo:

http://pastebin.com/wjY60RU1

[21:16:41]

tgm4883:

PROGRESS!

[21:16:51]

kormoc:

and no capture devices

[21:16:53]

bo:

lol

[21:17:03]

wagnerrp:

and its an Atom

[21:17:12]

tgm4883:

yea, no capture devices in there

[21:17:31]

bo:

hm...

[21:17:46]

justinh:

not even a snare?

[21:17:51]

bo:

so i will have to buy one...

[21:17:51]

wagnerrp:

nevermind, atom would be nm10, not n10

[21:17:54]

justinh:

no overhead nets?

[21:18:10]

jams:

but hey theres a modem!

[21:18:17]

** justinh favours big electromagnets. **

[21:19:13]

tgm4883:

might want something better than integrated graphics as well

[21:20:17]

justinh:

yeah. good luck getting smooth non-tearing video playback with Intel hardware, even on linux

[21:20:39]

zombor:

i dont have a problem with intel -_-

[21:21:05]

justinh:

I don't. Now – after much wrestling & hacking drivers

[21:21:06]

** J-e-f-f-A shouts "NVidia all the way!!!" ;-) **

[21:21:12]

wagnerrp:

bo: is this a P4 or a Core2?

[21:21:18]

wagnerrp:

what speed?

[21:21:32]

bo:

thanx for ya'lls help/patience

[21:21:35]

bo:

core 2

[21:21:43]

bo:

1.6GHZ

[21:22:45]

bo:

Hz

[21:22:59]

wagnerrp:

1.6 or 1.86?

[21:23:14]

bo:

let me double check

[21:24:01]

bo:

2140@1.6 (times 2 i think)

[21:24:11]

J-e-f-f-A:

bo: cat /proc/cpu

[21:24:14]

wagnerrp:

so one of the rebranded pentiums

[21:24:26]

wagnerrp:

no need to show /proc/cpu

[21:24:34]

bo:

it's hp

[21:25:29]

bo:

any suggestions for a video capture card? depends on if i want to capture from (tw)c signal or air signal huh?

[21:27:01]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, you're not going to do anything HD without either an upgrade, or an nVidia graphics card to offload video decoding to

[21:27:36]

wagnerrp:

anything digital you record will be MPEG2, and the MPEG2 software decoder in mythtv is single threaded, meaning you only use one of those cores

[21:27:56]

wagnerrp:

i dont believe a 1.6GHz core2 is going to have enough power to manage it

[21:28:40]

wagnerrp:

my 1.8GHz Ath64 only manages to do so because my local broadcasters are relatively low bitrate

[21:29:03]

wagnerrp:

my recordings are generally down around 12Mbps, rather than the more typical 16Mbps

[21:29:13]

justinh:

wow. the 0.25 changelog looks amazing

[21:30:21]

wizbit:

i only use 5% of mythtv features so it probably wont effect me

[21:30:39]

bo:

wagnerrp: alright, thanks

[21:31:13]

wagnerrp:

bo: you should be able to manage standard definition analog capture from your cable box just fine

[21:31:15]

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[21:31:25]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: wohoo... 'CEC Capabilities' — I wonder if that will work with my TV to turn it off when I shut down myth. ;-) /me investigates.

[21:31:29]

wizbit:

every month i will buy a bit of equipment what will go towards HD, this month was a nvidia geforce 210 :D

[21:31:42]

bo:

wagnerrp: how? with a firewire connection?

[21:31:44]

wagnerrp:

but if you want high definition capture, that means an HDPVR, and youre at a little better than half what would be needed to play content from that device

[21:31:52]

wizbit:

next month will be a HP DC7700 ultra slim

[21:32:13]

wagnerrp:

with time warner, you dont even want to bother with firewire for anything besides potentially using it for channel changing

[21:32:37]

wagnerrp:

thats something else to note

[21:32:49]

bo:

ok... a better graphics card to play content from that device?

[21:32:52]

wagnerrp:

when youre using an external tuner like a set top box, mythtv needs to be able to tell it to change channels

[21:33:00]

bo:

why with time warner?

[21:33:15]

wagnerrp:

because time warner marks nearly everything as copy protected

[21:33:22]

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[21:33:31]

wagnerrp:

meaning you have no chance of recording it digitally using a cablecard tuner or firewire

[21:33:31]

bo:

ok

[21:33:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

bo: ... so you can't record it with firewire or cablecard.

[21:33:52]

bo:

jeff: right

[21:33:52]

** J-e-f-f-A <too slow **

[21:34:07]

npm_ is now known as npm

[21:34:07]

bo:

no chance or too slow?

[21:34:33]

bo:

jeff: or YOU are too slow?

[21:34:34]

J-e-f-f-A:

bo: You can't record it – it's 'locked'.

[21:34:36]

wagnerrp:

hes saying i responded first

[21:34:45]

wagnerrp:

and that his follow up was too slow

[21:34:57]

bo:

ah, ok... i'm picking things up... slowly : )

[21:36:27]

justinh:

WTH? Bouncing text?

[21:36:49]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[21:37:22]

justinh:

http://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/5f926ea

[21:37:53]

J-e-f-f-A:

Awe, shucks... "Removed XvMC support" – I guess it's time to retire that PIII and Nvidia 210 then! ;-)

[21:37:55]

Seeker`:

reaches one side, stops and goes back the other way

[21:38:17]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A: a GT210 cannot do XvMC

[21:38:23]

Schabo:

Does anyone know when AirPlay could be available in MythTV?

[21:38:40]

bo:

so what cable/connection services do ya'll have?

[21:38:47]

devinheitmueller:

As far as I know, nobody is working on Airplay support.

[21:38:53]

wagnerrp:

Schabo: there is one person currently working on it, but there is no specific time frame

[21:39:04]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, I didn't know that. Nevermind then.

[21:39:04]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: it was older than that... it wasn't a GT210, it was an NForce 200 or such. ;-)

[21:39:10]

Schabo:

Alright, thanks!

[21:39:13]

wagnerrp:

last i heard, he had audio playback functioning

[21:39:14]

Seeker`:

justinh: what tuner cards do you use?

[21:39:23]

justinh:

Seeker`: why would you care?

[21:39:24]

wagnerrp:

but hadnt even started thinking of video

[21:39:46]

** justinh has 3x LR6650 DVB-T tuners **

[21:41:15]

Seeker`:

justinh: because IIRC you're in the UK, and was wondering if you'd made the leap to DVB-*2

[21:41:25]

iamlindoro:

Airtunes yes, AirPlay not yet

[21:41:46]

iamlindoro:

Though given who it is, it wouldn't surprise me if that was step two

[21:42:07]

justinh:

Seeker`: nah, no plans for HD here

[21:42:09]

Schabo:

iamlindoro, do you mean AirTunes is implemented now and AirPlay coming later?

[21:42:48]

** wizbit has been using a nova-t 500 for years and years **

[21:42:50]

Seeker`:

justinh: can't decide whether to wait for DVB-T2 or try DVB-S2

[21:42:55]

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[21:43:03]

wizbit:

DVB-T2 is ready to use now?

[21:43:30]

Seeker`:

wizbit: I believe so in the UK in post-switchover areas. I could well be wrong.

[21:44:02]

** Seeker` switches over in april **

[21:44:25]

wizbit:

going HD is expensive, so one bit of equipment per month, the last bit to buy will buy hard drives, hopefully the prices would have gone down by then

[21:44:39]

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[21:45:19]

Seeker`:

yeah, finding a well-supported PCI-e / USB DVB-S2 card that doesn't cost the earth seems to be non-trivial

[21:45:37]

iamlindoro:

Schabo: No, I mean Airtunes is in progress, and no work has been done on AirPlay

[21:45:51]

Schabo:

oh, alright! :)

[21:45:53]

J-e-f-f-A:

wizbit: Yeah, I upgraded my frontends first (to be able to play the HD content), then set out to upgrade the backend... (but I'm in the US, so have to use HD-PVRs)

[21:46:18]

wagnerrp:

Schabo: at last report it was "working", meaning he got something to play

[21:46:33]

wagnerrp:

that could be a long from having code actually worth committing upstream

[21:46:41]

wagnerrp:

or being polished in any fashion

[21:47:10]

Schabo:

wagnerrp, That's great! Hope it get's implemented soon.

[21:48:41]

wizbit:

J-e-f-f-A: aye ok. i will be getting a frontend next month, hp dc7700 http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/skuimages . . . ain02-im.jpg sexy looking frontend, core2duo, slot for nvidia card, not bad for £50

[21:49:01]

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[21:49:08]

wagnerrp:

again, there is a big difference between "got it to work" and "ready for use"

[21:49:25]

wagnerrp:

the dev in question would like to get it finished in time for 0.25 (which itself has no set date)

[21:49:36]

wagnerrp:

but its not a high priority for him

[21:49:48]

Schabo:

I am looking to change media center solution to a frontend/backend based. It would simplify alot of functions for me.

[21:50:07]

Schabo:

How would Mythtv work on ubuntu 11.10?

[21:50:18]

wagnerrp:

see 'mythbuntu'

[21:50:25]

bo:

jeff: what do you think of newegg.com?

[21:50:41]

Schabo:

Will do :) Thanks

[21:51:00]

J-e-f-f-A:

bo: I haven't used them much, but have friends that swear by them.

[21:51:28]

bo:

ok

[21:51:58]

Schabo:

Also, is there any iPhone "remote" to control MythTV?

[21:52:39]

wagnerrp:

mythfronted has a control socket that can be accessed to send commands to

[21:52:39]

Schabo:

or http based remote control? i.e. Using "iRule" to control MythTV

[21:52:54]

wagnerrp:

and there are a handful of ios and android apps that can interface with it

[21:53:01]

wagnerrp:

although ive not personally used any of them

[21:53:03]

Schabo:

Lovely! :)

[21:53:35]

wagnerrp:

theres a list of the bottom of http://mythtv.org/wiki/Frontend_Control_Socket

[21:53:59]

justinh:

anyway there aren't any shows I watch available in HD over here :P

[21:54:01]

Schabo:

Trying to setup some cool control features at the same time. Currently I'm using iRule + iTach for controlling the entire homeTheatre system.

[21:54:17]

J-e-f-f-A:

wizbit: This is the case I have for one of my frontends – It's big, but beautiful. ;-) http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/Produc . . . 9-054-03.jpg

[21:54:39]

wizbit:

J-e-f-f-A: how much did that cost?

[21:55:19]

tgm4883:

I have that exact case

[21:55:26]

tgm4883:

I think it was $50-$75

[21:55:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

I got it for about $130 USD back then — it's on NewEgg for $136 now... That's just the case and PS and remote.

[21:55:40]

wizbit:

ok

[21:55:45]

wagnerrp:

tgm4883: maybe the model without the VFD

[21:55:57]

wagnerrp:

the one with the VFD generally went for $150 or so

[21:56:06]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, nope, it was on a newegg.com shell shocker deal

[21:56:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

tgm4883: Antec Fusion Black 430? Mine has the LCD with tons of icons.

[21:56:13]

tgm4883:

yea

[21:56:27]

tgm4883:

I think it's the 430, it's got the blue lcd

[21:56:32]

tgm4883:

bunch of stuff on that

[21:56:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

tgm4883: I'll bet your backlight doesn't turn off with the case. ;-) Mine does...

[21:56:46]

tgm4883:

J-e-f-f-A, yea I think you're right

[21:56:50]

wizbit:

£50

[21:56:51]

wizbit:

http://www.keisokuki-land.co.jp/images/dc7700USDT-09.jpg

[21:57:16]

J-e-f-f-A:

tgm4883: I added a transistor and resistor to turn it on/off with the system power. ;-)

[21:57:37]

tgm4883:

J-e-f-f-A, nice, I plan on getting rid of mine when I move my backend

[21:58:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

I wantd to use it for my backend, but it onlyt akes a Mini-ATX board... :-(

[21:58:09]

Schabo:

Ok, alot of questions now... Can MythTV control the lcd display through lcdproc or other similar to display TV-Show name, Music Info and so on?

[21:58:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

Schabo: yes.

[21:58:32]

Schabo:

Great! :)

[21:58:52]

J-e-f-f-A:

Schabo: It's not as 'polished' as MCE, but it does work. ;-)

[21:59:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

Schabo: Do you have any coding under your belt?

[21:59:28]

justinh:

who needs LCDs anyway? heh

[21:59:29]

Schabo:

wagnerrp, That url you sent, Frontend_Control_Socket is blank..

[22:00:11]

wagnerrp:

ah, wrong caps... i was going from memory

[22:00:18]

bo:

(i don't even have a belt)

[22:00:22]

Schabo:

justdave, Not needed, just a 'cool' thing :)

[22:00:25]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Frontend_control_socket

[22:00:34]

justinh:

blue lit up things are not cool :P

[22:00:40]

Schabo:

J-e-f-f-A, Not much... just basic knowledge

[22:00:51]

Schabo:

wagnerrp, Thanks :)

[22:00:52]

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[22:01:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

Schabo: Ah, I was gonna say that you could help improve it. ;-) I've done a little bit here and there... Minor stuff so far. ;-)

[22:02:28]

Schabo:

J-e-f-f-A, I've mostly just done some basic shell scripting, php, mysql and stuff like that... nothing advanced

[22:03:46]

bo:

any thoughts on this... http://aluratek.com/usb-to-hdmi-720p-adapter-with-audio

[22:04:10]

J-e-f-f-A:

Schabo: Here's what my LCD on my backend looks like – displaying Time, and 3 programs recording. This also has a custom lcdproc (just a nicer 'bigclock' font). http://jartz.gotdns.com:8008/files/mythtv/lcd_vid.3gp

[22:05:02]

Schabo:

Looks nice :)

[22:05:22]

J-e-f-f-A:

Thanks. ;-)

[22:05:22]

Schabo:

Wish I had a cooler lcd though, I just have a 16x2 display

[22:05:25]

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[22:05:28]

Schabo:

the iMon thingie

[22:05:44]

J-e-f-f-A:

Schabo: Is it the LCD with lots of icons?

[22:06:06]

Schabo:

Naah, 2 rows 16 characters I think

[22:06:22]

J-e-f-f-A:

Ok, so probably the VFD – blue on black?

[22:06:39]

Schabo:

Blue/greenish on black

[22:06:55]

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[22:07:09]

Schabo:

It's in the Thermaltake Mozart case, some years old..

[22:08:25]

J-e-f-f-A:

Schabo: That's cool. As long as it's got an LCDPROC driver, you'll be able to use it in Myth. Like I said, it's not as pretty/refined as MCE, but it works. ;-)

[22:09:06]

Schabo:

Yeah, I've got it running with lcd proc and an other MediaCentre pushing info to it

[22:09:29]

Schabo:

lcdproc*

[22:09:58]

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[22:10:41]

Schabo:

I should be heading for bed... I'll be back to bother you guys tomorrow ;)

[22:10:42]

J-e-f-f-A:

IMHO – lcdproc is the limiting factor here – you can't define custom characters with LCDPROC... if you could, it would be alot easier to make 'pretty' LCD displays...

[22:11:02]

Schabo:

Thanks for the info so far! I gotta do a real test to see how and what MythTV can do for me :)

[22:11:09]

justinh:

'pretty' slow though too

[22:11:17]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: yeah, that too.

[22:11:39]

sphery:

What can MythTV do for you?(TM)

[22:11:49]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: I've done LCD control with microcontrollers, and done some really neat things with character displays and the 8 custom characters.

[22:12:01]

sphery:

(reference to the UPS slogan, "What can Brown do for you?")

[22:12:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

"Alot more than what I've currently got it configured for!!!" ;-)

[22:13:07]

drindt:

after a try to adjust my screen with the frontend is now displayed in a very small area on the screen upper left corner, how i can revert that?

[22:13:31]

wagnerrp:

jya: since 0.23, mythtv hashes all your video content, such that if you move or rename it, you dont lose any metadata you have applied to it

[22:14:07]

wagnerrp:

the consequence being if you have multiple copies of the same file, the scanner just picks them up as moves files as it scans across, and updates the reference to them in the database

[22:14:19]

Schabo is now known as Schabo|Zzz

[22:14:27]

wagnerrp:

it is not set up to allow multiple instances of the same file

[22:21:45]

sphery:

it's MythTV dedup!

[22:24:37]

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[22:35:14]

wizbit:

mythmessage looks interesting

[22:41:40]

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[22:45:27]

wizbit:

are there any command line tools what can do what makemkv does?

[22:45:40]

wizbit:

or maybe that works on the command line now

[22:51:11]

stuartm:

there are, to the best of my knowledge, only two apps on any platform which can rip blu-ray, AnyDVD and makemkv, there are no command-line only ones

[22:52:36]

stuartm:

the reason being that AnyDVD and MakeMKV have someone broken or otherwise gained access to existing and future encryption keys for Blu-ray which no-one else has

[22:52:47]

sphery:

hehe, and here I thought makemkv was some app that makes mkvs from random video... didn't know it was a blu-ray ripper

[22:52:57]

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[22:55:17]

iamlindoro:

You can rip Blu-ray on Linux with DumpHD, with the same limitations as playing encrypted Blu-ray on linux

[22:55:33]

iamlindoro:

ie, you need MKB keys recent enough for your discs

[22:55:34]

stuartm:

blu-ray copy protection hasn't been broken sadly, but some production and host keys have been discovered or leaked allowing apps like MythTV to playback some but not all discs – insert a new release into the drive and it will revoke the leaked keys effectively making it impossible to playback anything until a new host key leaks

[22:55:48]

iamlindoro:

s/key/certificate/

[22:56:06]

iamlindoro:

(that s// being for what stuartm said)

[22:56:25]

stuartm:

key/cert – both a long hexidecimal string :)

[22:57:07]

iamlindoro:

But two different things, both relevant to the topic :) If your cert gets revoked and you get a new certificate, all your keys still work

[22:57:29]

iamlindoro:

Alternately, you get one of the LG or Sony drives with firmware that disregards the cert revocation requests

[22:57:34]

iamlindoro:

(which is what I've got)

[22:58:11]

** stuartm is pissed that the new cert he obtained was immediately revoked by the next disc he tried to play :( **

[22:58:15]

sphery:

how were they even able to make drives that disregard CRLs

[22:58:22]

iamlindoro:

eg: http://www.amazon.com/LG-Super-Blu-ray-DVD-RO . . . p/B000ZEBOFG

[22:58:34]

wizbit:

.mkv rips all tracks, including subtitles etc, and i like the fact that i can easily burn a .mkv back onto a dvd

[22:58:47]

sphery:

I realize BluRay is mainly Sony, but you'd think that the DRM side would have forced all compliant drives to respect CRLs

[22:58:49]

iamlindoro:

.mkv is a container, and doesn't rip anything

[22:58:51]

stuartm:

sphery: it was done in user-upgradable firmware, so custom firmware means no more checks

[22:59:09]

sphery:

oh, so someone hacked the firmware?

[22:59:15]

iamlindoro:

sphery: yes

[22:59:24]

sphery:

ahh, makes more sense that way

[22:59:37]

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[23:00:00]

iamlindoro:

Actually, at $60 I kinda want to buy a few more up

[23:00:01]

sphery:

though funny--all the effort they go to and there's always something they didn't plan for

[23:00:29]

iamlindoro:

especially as the drive also does HD-DVD, which I still have a large number of

[23:01:05]

sphery:

I'm sure when I finally decide to support BluRay (or, more likely, when I can't get DVD any longer), I'll go the STB route... just much easier

[23:01:08]

stuartm:

not all drive manufacturers made the same mistake, either they put that bit of firmware in a rom or their firmware is signed/not hacked

[23:01:13]

sphery:

especially since I'm not a collector

[23:01:42]

sphery:

so for me it will just be the occasional RedBox (and I don't do that often since I have so much backlog of TV recordings)

[23:02:05]

stuartm:

my drive doesn't have hacked firmware, but then it wasn't my primary concern when I bought it – price was (that and I was incorrectly told that it was no longer necessary to have a hacked drive)

[23:02:59]

sphery:

stuartm: on the bright side, it means the US military won't eventually storm into your house, confiscate your systems, and haul you off to copyright jail

[23:03:14]

sphery:

for DMCA violations

[23:03:30]

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[23:03:38]

sphery:

I'm sure that's a part of the future with the way things are going these days

[23:03:38]

** wizbit adds a LG Super Multi Blu-ray Disc to the HD want list **

[23:03:57]

stuartm:

iamlindoro: that LG drive is £99 on Amazon UK ...

[23:04:26]

wizbit:

dam

[23:06:33]

stuartm:

sphery: fwiw I'm not a collector either, but there have been a handful of films and tv mini-series that I just loved so much I had to own them – if I'm buying them I'd rather pay an extra 30% for the blu-ray where it's going to make a noticable difference to the picture quality

[23:07:16]

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[23:08:02]

sphery:

yeah, I still have DVD for my must-haves--but none really need BluRay... Though I haven't yet bought Supernatural TV series--mainly because I think the HDTV would be better for it

[23:08:33]

wizbit:

ohh nice Use: makemkvcon [switches] Command [Parameters]

[23:08:36]

sphery:

My Stargates work fine in DVD... and a couple of old movies (Office Space, Princess Bride, ...)

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[23:10:21]

stuartm:

I only own one TV series in blu-ray – Band of Brothers, which perhaps doesn't need to be HD because the deliberate film grain effect used but it was on sale cheaper than the DVD set

[23:11:36]

sphery:

hehe, yeah--and that's becoming an issue, now, too. I'm starting to see BluRay stuff cheaper than DVD

[23:11:38]

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[23:12:49]

stuartm:

everything else I own on Blu-ray are films, a couple weren't so impressive, the picture quality wasn't so much better than the DVD would have been so I tend to look for reviews dealing with the blu-ray PQ more now

[23:14:12]

sphery:

yeah, since nearly all of my stuff is older (or at least started long ago and ran 'til recently), I figure a good portion of it won't look much different in BluRay

[23:14:39]

sphery:

some of the original Stargate SG-1 stuff is actually bad quality on DVD (it's not even progressive)

[23:14:41]

stuartm:

i.e. just because it's HD and has a huge bitrate doesn't mean that it will automatically look any better, it depends on the original film stock and whether they've re-mastered from the original or not

[23:14:41]

Seeker`:

depends how old t is

[23:14:52]

sphery:

yeah

[23:14:58]

Seeker`:

if it was filmed on film some of the bluray conversions are pretty good

[23:15:45]

sphery:

I know my early SG-1 was mastered back when they were still trying to figure out how to do DVD mastering, so it's possible there are better versions available

[23:16:04]

sphery:

but I have a feeling the source wasn't that great, either

[23:17:21]

likwid--_:

the early seasons of sg-1 didnt meet specs for bluray , so the whole series can't be boxed in bluray

[23:17:24]

stuartm:

there are some really good conversions, where they've gone back to the originals, re-framed and used the full colour range available so that blacks are now black

[23:19:10]

sphery:

likwid--_: interesting... didn't realize that

[23:19:40]

sphery:

helps me rationalize having the whole thing (including spinoffs and movies) in DVD--for consistency!

[23:23:22]

likwid--_:

but but.. stargate universe!

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[23:31:41]

sphery:

likwid--_: hehe, got it on dvd... haven't watched it, yet, though

[23:44:25]

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[23:58:01]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: have you actually tried any of those HDDVDs recently?

[23:58:20]

wagnerrp:

i bet youre not going to have as many HDDVDs left as you think you do

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