Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, January 18th, 2012, 00:00 UTC

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frtorres:

moin

[00:52:20]

frtorres:

spent days trying to set up a saa7134 analog tv card that worked just fine 2 years ago.

[00:52:36]

frtorres:

I found in some threads that it seems taht since kernel .38 v4l1 was removed.

[00:52:42]

wagnerrp:

i assume DVB-T hasnt had sufficient update in panama to be worth switching to?

[00:52:50]

wagnerrp:

*uptake

[00:53:30]

sphery:

frtorres: you just need current MythTV 0.24-fixes

[00:53:40]

sphery:

http://code.mythtv.org/trac

[00:53:51]

sphery:

specifically, "Stable: If you'd like to get the 0.24 stable branch, do this:"

[00:54:15]

sphery:

or, even better, use the (already properly built) packages that come with any good distro with which to use MythTV :)

[00:54:16]

wagnerrp:

cripes... another user who stuffed their mysql server on port 6543

[00:54:22]

wagnerrp:

where do they keep coming from?

[00:54:22]

frtorres:

yes wagnerrp still on analog tv

[00:54:29]

sphery:

wagnerrp: good question

[00:54:36]

Roklobsta:

frtorres: where is that?

[00:54:54]

sphery:

I really don't want to write the "detect a Qt MySQL driver connection on backend port" code

[00:55:42]

frtorres:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=panama+google+m . . . =0CCsQ8gEwAA

[00:55:47]

sphery:

probably good enough to put in a patch that pops up a dialog box when users configure port 654* as a database port

[00:56:13]

frtorres:

Roklobsta: see that link please

[00:56:15]

wagnerrp:

probably good enough to put in a patch that switches to an embedded database

[00:56:18]

wagnerrp:

:)

[00:56:22]

sphery:

frtorres and Roklobsta .... The point is that MythTV works properly with modern kernels, as long as you have a new enough version

[00:56:28]

sphery:

wagnerrp: hehe, that would work :)

[00:56:47]

wagnerrp:

frtorres: if you are using a "svn" version of mythtv

[00:57:00]

wagnerrp:

then you are using an old, likely broken version

[00:57:10]

sphery:

(because we've switched to git)

[00:57:14]

sphery:

long ago, too

[00:57:20]

wagnerrp:

prior to the fixes that allows mythtv to compile with v4l2, but not v4l1, support

[00:57:31]

wagnerrp:

over 13 months ago, in fact

[00:57:49]

frtorres:

I use a debian kanotix distro with the latest 3.2 kernel. Installed from debian-mutimedia but there is some problem with the tuner looking for channels in mythtv-setup

[00:57:59]

frtorres:

tv card works perfectly on mplayer

[00:58:27]

sphery:

well, debian-multimedia packages haven't been, er, perfect in the past

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[00:59:05]

sphery:

wagnerrp: perhaps that's the problem that the user on -users list who said ivtv doesn't work is having

[00:59:18]

sphery:

using packages that weren't built properly...

[00:59:23]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: I see. anly link to see how to compile from git? because the official documentation points to svn

[01:00:04]

frtorres:

I did not know that. :(

[01:00:39]

wagnerrp:

what official documentation points to svn?

[01:00:46]

wagnerrp:

if there is any remaining, we need to fix it

[01:00:47]

Roklobsta:

frtorres: wow you have the internet there?!

[01:01:45]

sphery:

guess it does... http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-5.html

[01:02:12]

sphery:

no one built updated docs (or at least, no one uploaded them) after switch

[01:02:52]

sphery:

frtorres: it's the same procedure, but change the svn command to the git command at http://code.mythtv.org/trac

[01:03:01]

sphery:

i.e.: git clone -b fixes/0.24 git://github.com/MythTV/mythtv.git

[01:03:57]

frtorres:

aha

[01:04:06]

frtorres:

ok

[01:04:29]

frtorres:

ok, perfect I will test it.

[01:04:43]

frtorres:

thanks a lot sphery,

[01:04:44]

frtorres:

bbl

[01:06:46]

sphery:

good luck

[01:31:12]

wagnerrp:

sphery: heres an interesting one

[01:31:28]

wagnerrp:

directv uses subchannels

[01:31:55]

wagnerrp:

such as NHL Center Ice (771) and its subchannel (771–1)

[01:32:00]

sphery:

interesting

[01:32:02]

wagnerrp:

we have no way of tuning that

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sphery:

assuming that 7711 works, we could

[01:32:49]

sphery:

or assuming there's a – in the remote config, that would work, too, right?

[01:33:01]

sphery:

though our firewire channel changer couldn't do it

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wagnerrp:

tgm4883: read iamli ndoro's comment, mysql is listening on port 6543

[01:49:28]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, yea, I didn't know if that was the same system. I figured it was, but didn't really want to put much effort into that

[01:49:37]

tgm4883:

too many other things I got to do

[01:50:03]

iamlindoro:

Well in fairness, he says nothing is listening on 6543, then he says mysql is

[01:50:07]

iamlindoro:

so it's hard to know which part to trust

[01:50:18]

iamlindoro:

but obviously, as tgm4883 says, *something* is

[01:50:36]

kisak:

wagnerrp: I've been chewing on my mythweb problem, from what I can tell, mythweb is selecting ffmpeg, and not mythffmpeg. Also, ffmpeg is spawning, running for a very short amount of time, then dies making a broken pipe

[01:51:07]

wagnerrp:

IIRC, ffmpeg just reads straight from the disk

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wagnerrp:

and writes to a pipe, which gets dumped over the HTTP connection

[01:51:56]

kisak:

is there a way to force mythffmpeg to be used?

[01:52:04]

mersault:

Hello. I recently moved my backend from mythbuntu to a different debian backend, and while most thing work fine I have one channel that consistently fails to record

[01:52:13]

kisak:

I wonder why it's not being picked since it's present

[01:52:14]

wagnerrp:

if its available, mythweb should be using it

[01:53:50]

kisak:

mythffmpeg is present

[01:54:02]

kisak:

and is not in use

[01:54:45]

kisak:

is there a setting somewhere that could have been carried over from an old version?

[01:55:48]

wagnerrp:

not that im aware of

[01:55:59]

wagnerrp:

it should all be in that relatively tiny script

[01:56:12]

wagnerrp:

the whole thing is only like 80 lines long

[01:57:21]

mersault:

so, if I'm trying to test for low level packet loss as described here: http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5877

[01:58:22]

mersault:

How can I specificy subchannels? 9_1? and also, how many packets to packets lost is reasonable (obviously none is preferable, but it's UDP)

[02:01:57]

kisak:

I'm going to comment out the ffmpeg select section and set it manually

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kisak:

okay, so I can confirm forcing mythffmpeg to be used caused mythffmpeg to spawn. The pipe still broke

[02:20:21]

kisak:

our of curiousity, what version of perl do you have, wagnerrp?

[02:20:35]

kisak:

s/our/out/

[02:20:53]

wagnerrp:

HIIK

[02:22:12]

kisak:

perl -v

[02:22:38]

kisak:

(if it's not too much trouble)

[02:22:57]

wagnerrp:

threaded, 5.14

[02:23:53]

kisak:

thank you

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DarkDrgn2k:

Hey

[02:34:04]

DarkDrgn2k:

Is there way in trunk to exclude beneric episodes

[02:34:09]

DarkDrgn2k:

Generic even

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Madams9:

My Mythbox seems to be laboring while flagging commercials. Temperatures rise, watching video playback starts to stutter, the 3.4 GHz dual core and 1GB of RAM just don't seem to be keeping up. I'm considering not flagging commercials automatically and just setting up a job to run at, like,

[02:37:43]

Madams9:

3:00 in the morning. Good idea or not a good idea?

[02:38:51]

wagnerrp:

even for an old Pentium D, 1GB of RAM is pretty weak

[02:39:10]

wagnerrp:

this is just broadcast HD MPEG2?

[02:39:24]

wagnerrp:

DarkDrgn2k: yes, there is a recording rule option for filtering out generic episodes

[02:39:45]

DarkDrgn2k:

I dont see it anywhere anymore

[02:40:00]

DarkDrgn2k:

I kniw it used to be there in mythweb

[02:40:04]

Madams9:

According to gkrellm, RAM isn't really stressed. It never seems to use more than about 75% of RAM.

[02:40:28]

Madams9:

I have considered adding a 1GB stick, but is comflagging that RAM intensive?

[02:40:42]

wagnerrp:

not really

[02:40:50]

DarkDrgn2k:

Filrer only shows none and new eps only

[02:41:22]

Madams9:

And it is just mpeg2 recordings from cable tv.

[02:41:37]

DarkDrgn2k:

Filter

[02:45:07]

DarkDrgn2k:

Any ideas

[02:46:30]

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DarkDrgn2k:

:-(

[02:48:21]

wagnerrp:

DarkDrgn2k: its there, i just dont recall exactly where to access it

[02:48:48]

DarkDrgn2k:

I know where it was.... Its nit there anymore

[02:48:58]

wagnerrp:

im fairly certain it is

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v iamlindoro

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[02:49:55]

mersault:

any Toronto based users around here?

[02:50:54]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Sounds like the guy on the users list is using some bizarre combination of Storage groups and local settings, and expecting some good to come of it

[02:51:37]

DarkDrgn2k:

Im in the t.o

[02:51:40]

iamlindoro:

I really can't even say what the behavior would be of some odd combination of file browse mode + local paths + storage groups, but it's unlikely to be good

[02:52:17]

wagnerrp:

well he must have local folders configured on at least the master backend

[02:52:22]

wagnerrp:

or else UPNP would not work

[02:52:46]

mersault:

DarkDrgn2k: you have any issies with CFTO?

[02:52:55]

mersault:

I get OMNI1+2 fine, but not CFTO

[02:52:59]

DarkDrgn2k:

What kinda issues

[02:53:07]

DarkDrgn2k:

Ota?

[02:53:13]

mersault:

aye.

[02:53:18]

mersault:

HDHR

[02:53:23]

DarkDrgn2k:

I have problemws with ota.

[02:53:38]

mersault:

everything except CFTO is working well for me

[02:53:49]

DarkDrgn2k:

I think they raised the signal strength but i havent re tested it yet

[02:54:05]

DarkDrgn2k:

I think cfto is still weak

[02:54:14]

DarkDrgn2k:

Whats you str

[02:54:25]

DarkDrgn2k:

Does it lock

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[02:55:15]

sphery:

DarkDrgn2k: if you're using unstable/development, you need to use mythfrontend to create schedules with filters since no one has written support for it in MythWeb

[02:55:21]

mersault:

so, the hdhomerun_config gui on my mac says 100% strength, and quality is above 80%

[02:56:24]

mersault:

and if I go just through the tuner in my TV, it looks great

[02:57:15]

mersault:

through the HDHR there's some artifacting on live tv

[02:57:49]

sphery:

DarkDrgn2k: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 96455#496455 + http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9850 (as those who are running unstable saw come across the commits list that they follow... ;)

[02:58:24]

DarkDrgn2k:

Yeh i jumped like months in one day

[02:58:35]

DarkDrgn2k:

Lol missed that i guess

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[03:00:14]

DarkDrgn2k:

Were in myth can i set the filter

[03:00:26]

wagnerrp:

in the recording rules

[03:00:41]

DarkDrgn2k:

Yeh but where

[03:00:51]

DarkDrgn2k:

Sched opts

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sphery:

wagnerrp: now that someone wrote a patch/pull request to change mythlog to logging in mythweb, I should probably finish up the proper fix

[03:02:14]

DarkDrgn2k:

.

[03:02:18]

DarkDrgn2k:

?

[03:03:10]

sphery:

Manage Recordings|Recording Rules, find rule, SELECT, edit as desired

[03:03:26]

DarkDrgn2k:

Yes

[03:03:31]

sphery:

(or, likely, MENU, then Edit ... or just hit EDIT)

[03:03:40]

sphery:

you need a theme with support for the new filters

[03:03:40]

DarkDrgn2k:

But where is generic exclude in the edit as desiered lol

[03:03:47]

sphery:

meaning you need to update your theme

[03:03:55]

sphery:

(likely)

[03:04:04]

sphery:

or change to one that's not an out-of-date third party theme

[03:04:17]

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[03:04:18]

DarkDrgn2k:

Blootube

[03:04:38]

DarkDrgn2k:

Ill try tera

[03:04:41]

sphery:

I'd recommend trying a tier-1 theme

[03:04:55]

DarkDrgn2k:

Terra ?

[03:05:04]

sphery:

yeah, arclight or terra or mythbuntu or, if you must, mythcenter*

[03:05:53]

sphery:

perhaps yours is a trillion themes, rather than a dirt theme

[03:06:10]

DarkDrgn2k:

Ok still cant find generic

[03:06:21]

sphery:

I haven't used the new filters

[03:06:25]

DarkDrgn2k:

Is it the identifiable filter ?

[03:06:28]

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[03:06:34]

sphery:

but I understand it's a whole other page or dialog or something

[03:07:04]

DarkDrgn2k:

Ok itm must be this time to test

[03:10:14]

DarkDrgn2k:

Thst did it thanks

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[03:31:52]

mersault:

anyone here know an app I can use in mac os x lion to watch direct from my HDHR?

[03:32:00]

mersault:

I want to compare with what's in mythtv

[03:38:12]

Captain_Murdoch:

vlc?

[03:43:35]

mersault:

oh right… vlc will do what I need. the hdhomerun_gui app used to let you view a station

[03:43:40]

mersault:

seems to fail on lion though

[03:48:26]

Beirdo:

time fer some ibuprofen

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[04:13:28]

mersault:

hmm… anyone have any tips for diagnosing an hdhr?

[04:17:26]

iamlindoro:

If it's gray and says "HDHomeRun," then it's an HDHR

[04:17:31]

iamlindoro:

you're welcome

[04:18:14]

mersault:

*rolls eyes* I've pretty much confirmed that what I get out of the HDHR is crap compared to what I get if I go straight to the TV. I've checked the network, and I don't think it's the issue

[04:19:08]

iamlindoro:

You should speak to someone from SiliconDust in #hdhomerun if you think the hardware is at issue

[04:19:19]

iamlindoro:

They'd be the ones who would best know diagnostic steps

[04:19:36]

iamlindoro:

likely they'll have you tune and dump a stream directly from the command line, then play that

[04:19:45]

iamlindoro:

if what you get is bad, you probably have bum hardware

[04:20:06]

mersault:

that's what I've been doing (well, streaming to vlc)

[04:20:36]

iamlindoro:

Then you should follow up with them for further steps

[04:21:08]

mersault:

alright.

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[05:03:20]

wagnerrp:

hah

[05:03:31]

wagnerrp:

the wikipedia blackout is done using a simple overlay

[05:03:41]

wagnerrp:

the page is still there, available in the source

[05:03:52]

wagnerrp:

lets see if its an element i can disable...

[05:04:36]

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[05:05:07]

[R]:

wagnerrp: the "learn more" link doesnt work

[05:05:22]

ertyu:

if they removed content they might anger the google gods

[05:07:43]

wagnerrp:

ertyu: they could have just altered the renderer so everything displayed the new page

[05:08:06]

wagnerrp:

but instead, they tacked on an extra javascript routine that hides all the existing page content, and then draws a new page on top

[05:08:21]

k-man:

dekarl, thanks for those links

[05:08:37]

[R]:

wagnerrp: javascript is cool...

[05:09:00]

wagnerrp:

i dont have 'noscript' installed?

[05:10:01]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, you could use the non-english version, then run that through google translate

[05:31:48]

sphery:

wait, wikipedia's blacked out, already? how come I still see it

[05:32:22]

wagnerrp:

noscript?

[05:32:27]

sphery:

nope

[05:32:38]

wagnerrp:

do you have wikimedia.org blocked somehow?

[05:33:22]

sphery:

no

[05:34:14]

sphery:

even set my user agent to a firefox one and allowed referer header and still see the page (lots of sites don't work properly without the Firefox in the user-agent string)

[05:35:05]

wagnerrp:

some sort of cache?

[05:35:50]

sphery:

even just disabled firefox's block popup windows ...

[05:36:18]

sphery:

and just cleared browser cache (completely)

[05:37:13]

sphery:

weird... maybe it's because I'm in Eastern TZ, so they're waiting 'til it's Jan 18 in the Central TZ before I get it

[05:37:43]

[R]:

it starts at a specific time UTC

[05:37:59]

sphery:

oh, wait... if I do a search via the home page, it gives me the blackout

[05:38:08]

[R]:

yeah, its not on the landing page

[05:38:13]

[R]:

its only in the actual english wikipedia

[05:38:19]

sphery:

ahhh

[05:38:36]

sphery:

yeah, I was just going to wikipedia.org... hehe, user error, it seems

[05:39:00]

wagnerrp:

success!

[05:39:25]

wagnerrp:

added an ABP filter for 'http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=S . . . annerLoader'

[05:39:31]

wagnerrp:

now that i think about it

[05:39:50]

wagnerrp:

i wonder if the same banner script is use for those creepy donation banners

[05:41:10]

sphery:

and it seems it's not displayed if you get to the article from a search engine, such as google/bing

[05:42:15]

sphery:

pretty much only if I navigate from wikipedia -> wikipedia

[05:43:13]

sphery:

does reddit start later? or is there's also some "only in certain circumstances" thing

[05:43:16]

sphery:

theirs

[05:43:24]

wagnerrp:

dont know

[05:43:43]

sphery:

I heard anonymous is also doing a blackout of their site

[05:43:57]

[R]:

anonymous has a website?

[05:44:00]

sphery:

guess so

[05:44:35]

wagnerrp:

[R]: you're not sufficiently apathetic to access it anyway

[05:44:46]

[R]:

what?

[05:45:14]

wagnerrp:

the correct answer should have been "meh"

[05:45:36]

sphery:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2012/01 . . . ipa-protest/

[05:45:43]

sphery:

"Wikipedia, Reddit, Boing Boing and Anonymous will go dark Wednesday in condemnation of SOPA and PIPA."

[05:45:53]

sphery:

no clue where anonymous's site is, though

[05:46:17]

sphery:

"If a website in a dark corner of the Internet goes dark, does it make a sound?"

[05:46:44]

wagnerrp:

HAHAHA

[05:46:44]

[R]:

lol

[05:46:50]

wagnerrp:

no, completely wrong

[05:47:02]

wagnerrp:

anonymous doesnt have a website of their own

[05:47:11]

sphery:

wait, what? the media might have made a mistake?

[05:47:20]

wagnerrp:

they are going to black out "the internet" in protest to SOPA

[05:47:23]

[R]:

lol

[05:47:29]

wagnerrp:

meaning any and every website they can break into

[05:48:03]

sphery:

whew! mine's still up (and as not dark as possible)

[05:48:37]

wagnerrp:

and apparently theyre going to stop tweeting too

[05:50:50]

sphery:

but who will steal from the banks--by stealing from poor, innocent bystanders, and causing those bystanders to have to go through the trouble of arguing invalid charges to their debit card with the bank and having to deal with overdrafts... and who will cause charities to think they got donations, spend that money, then have to pay back the money when the credit card company does a chargeback?

[05:51:21]

top_hat (top_hat!d0a8f096@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.168.240.150) has joined #mythtv-users

[05:51:29]

wagnerrp:

when did this happen?

[05:51:54]

sphery:

and who will steal usernames/passwords from companies, then post them online, where it locks out innocent users' accounts and exposes passwords that many have likely used on other--far more important--sites, too

[05:52:09]

sphery:

don't know if they've actually done the steal from the banks thing, but they said they were

[05:52:19]

top_hat:

Hey guys. I have mythtv installed on ubuntu 10.10, with Hauppauge 950Q and a cable box connected over composite input.

[05:52:37]

top_hat:

When I press watch TV I get "Starting playback..." and then it goes back to the main menu.

[05:52:39]

sphery:

said, "It won't cost the credit/debit card owner a penny because the card company has to cover the cost of fraudulent charges"

[05:52:43]

top_hat:

What could be wrong?

[05:52:48]

sphery:

they completely ignored the real-life effects, though

[05:53:17]

top_hat:

I also have the card configured to use the composite input, a channel set to composite input

[05:53:23]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://news.yahoo.com/anonymous-makes-charita . . . 2209534.html

[05:53:23]

wagnerrp:

top_hat: youre using an analog framegrabber

[05:54:24]

sphery:

top_hat: likely the mythbackend log file has some info

[05:55:59]

wagnerrp:

top_hat: you can use the 950Q for analog capture, but its advised you use a hardware encoder for such instead

[05:56:15]

wagnerrp:

and leave such hybrid tuners for digital tv only

[05:57:23]

sphery:

wagnerrp: also: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/113011- . . . -253592.html

[05:59:03]

top_hat:

wagnerrp, sorry, I don't understand.

[05:59:12]

top_hat:

My cable box is connected to my TV over composite

[05:59:24]

sphery:

he's just saying your capture device is meant for digital capture, not analog

[05:59:24]

top_hat:

I don't have another way of connecting it.

[05:59:29]

wagnerrp:

your tuner card is a hybrid tuner, capable of both digital and analog

[05:59:39]

wagnerrp:

however its analog capability is what is called a 'framegrabber'

[05:59:57]

wagnerrp:

it captures frames, and makes them available in IO address space

[05:59:59]

top_hat:

OK. So... how do I proceed?

[06:00:06]

sphery:

and that you'd be better off with a Hauppauge PVR-150 or HVR-1600 (or whatever's appropriate for your country)

[06:00:27]

wagnerrp:

at which point mythtv must grab those frames, compress them in real time, and mux it with audio, all while attempting to maintain a/v sync

[06:00:35]

top_hat:

Well, that's like bringing in a Toyota for repairs and the mechanic tells you "You'd be better off buying a Honda"

[06:00:38]

wagnerrp:

the recommended analog capture type is a hardware encoder

[06:00:42]

sphery:

you can make the framegrabber work, but it's inefficient and about the most complex configuration possible

[06:00:46]

wagnerrp:

which does all that for you

[06:01:08]

top_hat:

OK, well, I only have an HVR-950Q.

[06:01:14]

top_hat:

So how do I go about making it work?

[06:01:42]

sphery:

more like bringing in a smart car and being told, "You'd be better off buying a dump truck"

[06:02:11]

sphery:

(i.e. you're trying to haul a lot of data with a "car" that's not designed for such :)

[06:02:31]

top_hat:

So...

[06:02:42]

sphery:

making it work involves figuring out the misconfiguration and then fixing it

[06:02:45]

top_hat:

I'd be better off plugging the cable box through the cable input?

[06:02:49]

sphery:

that starts with looking at the backend log file

[06:02:54]

wagnerrp:

top_hat: even if you want to proceed with the 950Q, we cant go anywhere without the log file

[06:02:54]

sphery:

and lots of trial and error

[06:03:10]

wagnerrp:

chances are you misconfigured something somewhere

[06:03:42]

sphery:

yay, my failed hdd is giving errors, again

[06:04:08]

wagnerrp:

sphery: funky, they use ATSC, but his cable box has a CAM/smartcard

[06:04:17]

sphery:

I ran seatools long test, and it offeret to "repair" the bad sectors, then was able to copy one of the 2 files I'd lost (I'm assuming I lost some bytes in it)

[06:04:37]

wagnerrp:

http://www.weststartv.com/assets/HD_Users_Manual.pdf

[06:04:55]

sphery:

the 2nd file is erroring--meaing I won't have to worry that Seagate will say it's not broken when I RMA it

[06:05:42]

sphery:

is this canada or something?

[06:05:47]

top_hat:

wagnerrp, sphery, pastebin.com/BjD2YukW

[06:05:48]

wagnerrp:

caymans

[06:05:51]

sphery:

cool

[06:06:25]

sphery:

probably not something that a CI/CAM capture device would be able to work with?

[06:06:26]

wagnerrp:

i wonder if he could just pick up a DVB-C tuner and slot in whatever CAM came with his cable box

[06:06:35]

sphery:

yeah, was wondering

[06:06:42]

top_hat:

the cable box comes with a decoder card

[06:06:53]

sphery:

if so, that would be ideal, top_hat ... then you'd have everything your STB gives without the STB

[06:06:55]

top_hat:

also, my cable box is outputting video+audio just fine :P

[06:07:10]

wagnerrp:

you would have to wait for some of the european users to wake up for that

[06:07:10]

top_hat:

sphery, if so what? :P

[06:07:17]

wagnerrp:

the US uses a different system for that

[06:07:23]

wagnerrp:

and Canada uses... well, nothing

[06:07:41]

wagnerrp:

ok, its complaining about an external channel changer

[06:07:43]

sphery:

if you can get a tuner with CI/CAM support and use your cable box's smart card in it)

[06:07:44]

top_hat:

I'd guess Cayman Islands would be using whatever the US is using

[06:07:59]

wagnerrp:

top_hat: do understand, mythtv isnt just for watching tv, its for scheduling the recording of tv

[06:08:09]

wagnerrp:

which means if youre using an external tuner, mythtv needs to be able to control it

[06:08:13]

wagnerrp:

which means an IR blaster

[06:08:18]

top_hat:

Why?

[06:08:23]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is complaining that it has no mechanism by which to control the cable box

[06:08:25]

top_hat:

I don't want to schedule recordings

[06:08:25]

sphery:

which means the STB must be on

[06:08:30]

wagnerrp:

for now, you can tell it to use /bin/true

[06:08:32]

sphery:

/bin/trut

[06:08:35]

sphery:

er, true

[06:08:39]

wagnerrp:

you dont want to schedule recordings?

[06:08:40]

top_hat:

Where do I set that?

[06:08:47]

top_hat:

wagnerrp, no

[06:08:47]

wagnerrp:

what exactly do you intend to do with mythtv?

[06:08:49]

sphery:

why mythtv if you don't want to schedule recordings

[06:08:52]

top_hat:

Watch TV

[06:08:56]

sphery:

why not something meant for watching tv

[06:08:59]

top_hat:

+ have a pause/play/rewind ability

[06:09:03]

wagnerrp:

thats the whole point of a DVR, to schedule recordings and watch them later

[06:09:14]

top_hat:

I know.

[06:09:16]

sphery:

and live your life on /your/ schedule

[06:09:33]

top_hat:

But, living on a tiny caribbean island I have gotten used to compromises :P

[06:09:55]

top_hat:

all I want to do, is watch TV and be able to record whatever I am watching, so that I can pause/play/rewind

[06:10:00]

top_hat:

I don't even watch that much TV

[06:10:31]

top_hat:

Can it do that without controlling the cable box?

[06:10:41]

sphery:

also looks like you may not have set up the device using the right type

[06:10:52]

sphery:

which type did you choose? not MPEG-2 encoder card, right?

[06:11:00]

sphery:

should have been V4L something or another

[06:11:08]

top_hat:

yes

[06:11:11]

top_hat:

V4L

[06:11:22]

wagnerrp:

sphery: why do you say that?

[06:11:34]

sphery:

"Analog V4L capture card"

[06:11:43]

wagnerrp:

thats what he wants

[06:11:49]

sphery:

2012-01–17 23:55:28.135 Channel(/dev/video0) Error: InitPictureAttribute(brightness): failed to query controls. eno: Bad file descriptor (9)

[06:11:53]

sphery:

looked suspicious

[06:12:07]

wagnerrp:

thats probably the v4l1 stuff

[06:12:09]

sphery:

right, I'm saying he wants "Analog V4L capture card", but thought he might have something else because of that error

[06:12:24]

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[06:12:40]

sphery:

anyway, definitely start with /bin/true as external channel change script

[06:12:53]

top_hat:

ok

[06:13:07]

wagnerrp:

sphery: would schedulesdirect even cover the caymans?

[06:13:27]

sphery:

"External channel change command: If specified, this command will be run to change the channel for inputs which have an external tuner device such as a cable box. The first argument will be the channel number."

[06:13:37]

sphery:

not sure

[06:15:31]

top_hat:

ok, chaned the channel changing command to /bin.true

[06:15:36]

top_hat:

*/bin/true

[06:15:43]

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[06:15:47]

top_hat:

now it's really quick when it goes back to the main menu :P

[06:15:57]

wagnerrp:

jya: you know anything about CAMs?

[06:16:33]

jya:

not really...

[06:16:47]

sphery:

hehe, well at least we sped up the erroring process :)

[06:16:49]

wagnerrp:

hmm... didnt know if they used them in australia

[06:17:19]

jya:

isn't it something ATSC only?

[06:17:34]

wagnerrp:

ATSC doesnt use any form of conditional access

[06:17:43]

wagnerrp:

US cable uses cablecards

[06:17:49]

wagnerrp:

CAMs are generally a DVB thing

[06:18:04]

jya:

Foxtel here use some sim card

[06:18:14]

jya:

but you can only use them with Foxtel provided decoder

[06:18:31]

wagnerrp:

but user above is in the odd situation of an ATSC country, and a cable provider that appears to use CAMs

[06:18:36]

jya:

that's cable or satellite… not for DVB, DVB-T here is exclusively free to air

[06:18:41]

top_hat:

So... new paste of the log?

[06:18:48]

sphery:

top_hat: please

[06:18:54]

top_hat:

OK, sec

[06:19:17]

wagnerrp:

their PDF manual has a picture of the STB with a CAM and card slotted into the front of it

[06:19:51]

wagnerrp:

was curious whether he might be able to just pick up a DVB-C tuner, put it in, and magically work

[06:22:35]

top_hat:

sphery, wagnerrp: pastebin.com/7mkXzgsm

[06:23:08]

sphery:

top_hat: so, socket errors... is this CentOS?

[06:23:17]

top_hat:

No, Ubuntu

[06:23:27]

sphery:

ah, yeah, you said that

[06:23:39]

sphery:

hmmm...

[06:23:47]

wagnerrp:

im wondering if its something to do with having no guide data

[06:23:55]

wagnerrp:

thats something im sure rarely ever gets tested

[06:24:05]

wagnerrp:

speaking of which....

[06:24:14]

top_hat:

I chose no guide data.

[06:24:21]

top_hat:

Or no grabber.

[06:24:23]

wagnerrp:

top_hat: by default, mythtv will chop live-tv sessions at the show breaks

[06:24:32]

sphery:

in theory, it shouldn't matter, but if it got broken, it could probably go a long time without being noticed

[06:24:35]

wagnerrp:

it will stop one recording, and start another

[06:24:44]

top_hat:

oh

[06:24:45]

wagnerrp:

you will not be able to rewind past that break

[06:24:54]

top_hat:

well, I want it to just use the composite input

[06:25:00]

wagnerrp:

however, you can go back later, remove the live tv filter from watch recordings, and access them

[06:25:06]

top_hat:

how will it know it's a break in th show?

[06:25:09]

wagnerrp:

with no guide data, it instead clips at the top and bottom of every hour

[06:25:11]

top_hat:

*the

[06:25:14]

top_hat:

if there's no guide?

[06:25:23]

top_hat:

ah

[06:25:24]

wagnerrp:

since there is no way to tell when there is a break in the show

[06:25:30]

sphery:

live tv is supposed to allow going to the previous entry in the chain, but I think I remember some people saying it's not working, now

[06:27:06]

wagnerrp:

does VLC have any kind of paused recording mechanism?

[06:42:13]

wagnerrp:

sphery: do you remember a while back, i wrote some script to block certain email domains from the wiki?

[06:42:44]

wagnerrp:

email domains that provided temporary addresses rarely used for anything but spamming

[06:44:52]

top_hat:

OK, so what are my options at this stage?

[06:45:16]

top_hat:

Why wouldn't the composite input work?

[06:45:43]

wagnerrp:

did you ever create at least one dummy channel?

[06:45:57]

top_hat:

yes

[06:45:59]

sphery:

yeah, I remember your mentioning the script

[06:46:01]

top_hat:

set it to composite

[06:46:08]

top_hat:

and made it the starting channel

[06:46:09]

wagnerrp:

well i found a bug in it

[06:46:29]

wagnerrp:

i split it at '@', and take the second value as the domain

[06:46:51]

sphery:

did spammers help you find the bug?

[06:47:04]

wagnerrp:

so when the user completely botches it and pastes their email twice, 'yopmail.comguiltlessblosso197' is not being filtered

[06:47:04]

Beirdo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxbWrl7qA-U&feature=fvwrel

[06:47:06]

Beirdo:

hehehehe

[06:47:23]

sphery:

hehe

[06:47:40]

wagnerrp:

listen to those tires go

[06:48:24]

sphery:

Beirdo: wow, that sounds like he's running that car in the red

[06:48:44]

sphery:

like the tach is pegged

[06:49:05]

sphery:

gotta wonder why he's the only one who can't actually drive

[06:49:12]

wagnerrp:

you would think he would have heated the ground up enough to melt the ice and boil off the water by that point

[06:49:57]

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[06:50:11]

wagnerrp:

so why are people saying rear wheel drive sucks?

[06:50:28]

wagnerrp:

a rear wheel drive car should behave _better_ uphill on ice

[06:50:49]

wagnerrp:

assuming both cars are properly balanced

[06:50:58]

Beirdo:

not at all

[06:51:28]

top_hat:

RWD > FWD, because you can do powerslides around the corner

[06:51:38]

Beirdo:

cars are front-heavy by and large, you need sandbags in the trunk for RWD, and... most importantly, NON-bald tires :)

[06:51:40]

top_hat:

and not that lame pulling the handbrake shit

[06:52:13]

top_hat:

well, this has been fun

[06:52:19]

Beirdo:

language...

[06:52:19]

top_hat:

It's nearly 2 am

[06:52:30]

wagnerrp:

ok... how about a RR or RMR car uphill on ice?

[06:52:33]

top_hat:

This is a sentence.

[06:53:03]

top_hat:

I think I'll try coming here tomorrow, see if there are people with fresh ideas. Thanks for your help, guys.

[06:53:05]

top_hat:

Peace,

[06:53:09]

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[06:53:42]

Beirdo:

of course, non-plowed, non-salted, non-plowed roads are a menace anyways... when almost every car on the road is driven by a moron... with half-bald tires

[06:53:45]

Beirdo:

:)

[06:53:51]

Beirdo:

then add hills

[06:54:02]

** sphery is glad we don't get snow/ice **

[06:54:23]

Beirdo:

you really need to witness the fun here in Seattle when it shows

[06:54:26]

Beirdo:

snows rather

[06:54:32]

Beirdo:

the videos don't do it justice

[06:55:26]

sphery:

Beirdo: you do realize you're wasted about an hour of my time, tonight, right?

[06:55:35]

sphery:

made me click over to http://www.todaysbigfail.com/

[06:56:08]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[06:57:05]

Beirdo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6zlkP8thkk

[06:57:21]

Beirdo:

that was this Sunday... about half-way between work and home

[06:57:57]

Beirdo:

we wisely avoided the hills as much as possible

[06:58:46]

sphery:

that sideways driving is impressive

[06:58:56]

Beirdo:

yeah

[06:59:10]

Beirdo:

I saw a BMW 5-series road polisher on Sunday

[06:59:12]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:59:26]

sphery:

hehe

[06:59:35]

Beirdo:

please don't slide into me, tard!

[06:59:58]

Beirdo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ASN1I-F_8&feature=related

[07:00:06]

Beirdo:

and that was... 2 blocks from church

[07:00:29]

sphery:

wow, now that's sideways driving

[07:00:54]

Beirdo:

yup

[07:01:00]

Beirdo:

that takes talent

[07:01:01]

wagnerrp:

four wheel drift!

[07:01:32]

Beirdo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSgq8elwAQU

[07:01:49]

Beirdo:

then there's this guy.. who actually knows what he's doing.

[07:02:43]

Beirdo:

I used to do that in the Ikea parking lot in Ottawa

[07:03:00]

[R]:

the best is those videos where thers tons of cars trying to make it up a hill, and one by one they all slide down and crash into other cars

[07:03:37]

[R]:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5exATIaQiI

[07:03:39]

Beirdo:

[R]: keep looking, I bet over half of those on youtube are filmed here

[07:04:29]

[R]:

why are these people so stupid...

[07:05:09]

Beirdo:

because...

[07:05:20]

wagnerrp:

in soviet russia, they dont need snow... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CXPTkF-NYs

[07:05:26]

Beirdo:

in Seattle (and Colorado Springs, I guess), I blame the weed

[07:05:56]

wagnerrp:

and if you seek to 56 seconds in, large box trucks materialize out of thin air to collide with

[07:06:02]

[R]:

so in situations like that... are you just screwed if your car gets hit?

[07:06:27]

Beirdo:

that's an insurance company's nightmare

[07:06:42]

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[07:07:15]

wagnerrp:

seriously, can anyone tell me where that second truck came from?

[07:07:33]

Beirdo:

more cursing in one block than anywhere in the USA at the time, I bet

[07:07:50]

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[07:08:10]

Beirdo:

see, it happens in Colorado too

[07:08:11]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:08:17]

[R]:

you know, in arizona, there is a law where if your car gets stuck in a flooded out street

[07:08:20]

[R]:

yo uhave to pay fines

[07:08:34]

wagnerrp:

there damn well should be

[07:08:38]

wagnerrp:

youre in arizona

[07:08:38]

Beirdo:

but in average Seattle snow, there's a lot higher idiot quotient

[07:08:41]

wagnerrp:

there is no water

[07:09:00]

wagnerrp:

if you manage to find the only water in the state, and get your car stuck in it, you deserve a fine

[07:09:17]

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[07:09:21]

Beirdo:

heheheeh

[07:09:26]

[R]:

wagnerrp: it monsoons like crazy in the summer

[07:10:18]

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[07:10:48]

[R]:

why can't i find any youtube videos...

[07:11:12]

[R]:

its on the news every year

[07:12:00]

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[07:13:22]

wagnerrp:

if youre sliding on a hill, why would you hold down the brakes?

[07:14:10]

[R]:

Beirdo: i think that guy in the 20 car pileup was high... every 5 seconds "omg... this sucks"

[07:14:34]

wagnerrp:

i guess no one understands the concept that you let the wheels roll, and retain a minuscule amount of traction to steer?

[07:14:58]

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[07:15:00]

wagnerrp:

everyone is off to the sides, so all you have to do is maintain headway and drive right down the center

[07:15:51]

Beirdo:

the second video, a Cadillac did exactly that, downhill

[07:16:07]

wagnerrp:

which one?

[07:16:10]

Beirdo:

keep the tires rolling and not locked... you maintain control

[07:16:21]

Beirdo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscree . . . =rlNDPh7j3aI

[07:16:23]

Beirdo:

sorry

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[07:17:11]

[R]:

HAHA

[07:17:13]

[R]:

6 minutes in

[07:17:27]

[R]:

this big truck tries to make it up the hill... he makes it pretty far, and then boom... starts sliding backwards

[07:17:46]

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[07:17:49]

Beirdo:

because the driver was a tard

[07:17:56]

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[07:18:18]

wagnerrp:

and just drags everyone down the hill with him

[07:18:24]

Beirdo:

and then proceeds to cause more destruction ;)

[07:18:45]

[R]:

i dont know much about driving up a snowy/icy hill

[07:18:55]

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[07:18:57]

[R]:

why do the tires just stop spinning?

[07:19:10]

wagnerrp:

because theyre driving up the hill

[07:19:13]

wagnerrp:

so theyre in drive

[07:19:34]

wagnerrp:

and with automatic transmissions, when youre in drive, youre still putting torque on the wheels

[07:19:48]

Beirdo:

and then you hit the brakes, and it's game over

[07:19:49]

wagnerrp:

if they shifted into neutral, the wheels would then freemill, and regain traction

[07:20:26]

wagnerrp:

there is just a very small amount of traction to be had

[07:20:37]

Beirdo:

yup

[07:20:40]

wagnerrp:

so you let off all gas and brake, and use what little there is for steering

[07:20:43]

wagnerrp:

thats all there is too it

[07:20:49]

wagnerrp:

nothing complex at all

[07:20:56]

Beirdo:

far easier if you don't thinky you are invincible as you have 4WD

[07:20:58]

wagnerrp:

but people panic, and hit the gas and brakes and lose it

[07:21:13]

[R]:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlNDPh7j3aI&feature=relmfu

[07:21:25]

[R]:

guy at the beginning there managed to make it down straight

[07:22:04]

Beirdo:

OMG!

[07:22:05]

Beirdo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgRzytxGV8I

[07:22:11]

Beirdo:

that's hilarious!

[07:22:33]

wagnerrp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPltRLna4MM

[07:22:37]

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[07:24:46]

[R]:

Beirdo: how the hell does it get like that in the first place

[07:24:51]

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[07:25:24]

Beirdo:

[R]: beats me, but I don't think I've laughed that hard quite some time

[07:25:56]

Beirdo:

I wish we had video of our spinout on I-69 a few years back going through Flint, MI

[07:26:17]

Beirdo:

my cousin driving... we did a 720 in the middle of the interstate while pulling onto it.

[07:26:25]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: that caddy you mentioned, it looks like the wheels are spinning backwards

[07:26:32]

[R]:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQeLjJgyEo0&feature=related

[07:26:37]

[R]:

OMG, CARLTON HAS A TV SHOW!?

[07:26:46]

Beirdo:

barely missed the cement bridge supports...

[07:27:01]

Beirdo:

barely missed a cop attending an accident at said bridge supports

[07:27:16]

Beirdo:

he shook his head at us and went back to the other accident

[07:27:25]

Beirdo:

frigging black ice on the onramp

[07:27:40]

Beirdo:

and my cousin... driving a Mustang

[07:27:40]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:28:14]

Beirdo:

we ditched it like that Evo to avoid rearending a friend we were convoying with too

[07:28:16]

wagnerrp:

WTF

[07:28:23]

wagnerrp:

firefox 10.0 beta 3

[07:28:45]

Beirdo:

we were fully on the shoulder and the back of the Mustang was about in line with the front of his car

[07:29:04]

Beirdo:

that was an eventful drive home :)

[07:30:02]

Beirdo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoWIpmS-FO4&am . . . een&NR=1

[07:30:04]

Beirdo:

eek

[07:48:40]

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[08:06:36]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: do you know much about the github api?

[08:11:17]

wagnerrp:

im trying to figure out a way to do this ebuild generator without having to pre-tar a package

[08:11:41]

wagnerrp:

right now, i use the downloaded filename to determine tag and type

[08:11:44]

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[08:12:04]

wagnerrp:

the only way i can think of to figure out such information through the API is to poll all current branches and tags

[08:12:22]

wagnerrp:

and then recursively walk back from a commit until i find a SHA i have that information for

[08:12:42]

wagnerrp:

either from those tags/branches, or from a previous ebuild

[08:13:04]

wagnerrp:

which has the potential to be very messy

[08:13:15]

[R]:

that's what she said?

[08:16:33]

Beirdo:

Hmmm, I haven't really looked into it much

[08:17:34]

wagnerrp:

although i dare say a couple dozen queries to walk back 4000 commits all the way to the v0.25pre tag is less load than compressing a tarball for mythtv

[08:17:53]

Beirdo:

why would you need to walk all the way back?

[08:18:09]

wagnerrp:

say someone wants to make an ebuild for a hash

[08:18:15]

wagnerrp:

i need to figure out what that hash is

[08:18:16]

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[08:18:28]

Beirdo:

why?

[08:18:35]

wagnerrp:

there is no equivalent to 'git describe hash'

[08:18:42]

Beirdo:

you could use git archive to pull the hash directly

[08:18:49]

Beirdo:

as a tar

[08:18:51]

wagnerrp:

assuming i have a local git clone

[08:18:55]

Beirdo:

no

[08:19:00]

Beirdo:

without a local clone

[08:19:09]

Beirdo:

git archive doesn't need a clone

[08:19:17]

Beirdo:

that's how they are generating it anyways

[08:19:31]

wagnerrp:

i want to figure this stuff out without downloading a 150MB tarball

[08:19:39]

wagnerrp:

or requiring github to generate one in the first place

[08:19:49]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[08:19:56]

Beirdo:

I see the dilemma :)

[08:20:25]

Beirdo:

gimme a sec, gonna go look quickly at their API

[08:20:38]

wagnerrp:

http://developer.github.com/v3/

[08:21:06]

wagnerrp:

if im just automatically pulling the latest, thats fairly easy

[08:21:15]

wagnerrp:

(to tell the branch)

[08:21:31]

wagnerrp:

but i still need to walk back to a known version to figure out how far i am from the last tag

[08:21:44]

wagnerrp:

so i can properly create the 'describe' string

[08:22:20]

Beirdo:

Ahhh

[08:23:04]

wagnerrp:

plus i would need to know whether master was v0.25pre or v0.26pre

[08:23:49]

Beirdo:

yeah, we have a tag for 0.25pre, don't we?

[08:23:56]

Beirdo:

that would be the easiest way

[08:24:03]

wagnerrp:

?

[08:24:21]

Beirdo:

actually, I'd like to (soon enough) bring up the concept of changing our versioning anyways

[08:24:37]

wagnerrp:

the _only_way_ i can think of to figure out the last tag through the API

[08:24:53]

Beirdo:

so anyways, it looks like you'd have to pull the SHA1, and recurse back up the parents

[08:25:00]

wagnerrp:

is to just start marching all the way back through the parents

[08:25:09]

wagnerrp:

all 4000 commits to 0.25pre

[08:25:27]

wagnerrp:

except, i would only actually have to do it back to one of the stored ebuilds

[08:25:50]

wagnerrp:

however recent that is, unless i hit a new tag before then

[08:25:53]

Beirdo:

yeah

[08:25:57]

Beirdo:

all the way back

[08:26:03]

wagnerrp:

which is ugly

[08:26:14]

Beirdo:

as if there's a merge between, the number can change, potentially

[08:26:25]

Beirdo:

the number of commits in the middle

[08:26:47]

Beirdo:

not 100% sure, but I think there may be a way for that to be significantly different after a merge

[08:26:51]

wagnerrp:

slightly less ugly than having github generate a new tarball, and read that data from the produced filename

[08:27:04]

Beirdo:

as it would count both halves of a merge instead of one

[08:27:04]

wagnerrp:

oh? that would be bad

[08:27:33]

wagnerrp:

actually, that would be bad for everyone

[08:27:40]

Beirdo:

that's why describe has both the sha1 and the count

[08:27:50]

wagnerrp:

because it means future commits could invalidate that string

[08:27:59]

Beirdo:

you can easily have two sha1 with the same count

[08:28:01]

Beirdo:

no.

[08:28:18]

Beirdo:

the next one after the merge gets a non-monotonic increase

[08:28:26]

Beirdo:

its history didn't change

[08:28:51]

Beirdo:

duh... OK, so you should be able to just count up both branches, somehow

[08:29:02]

wagnerrp:

oh, i see what youre getting at

[08:29:06]

Beirdo:

would have to look at the code in git describe to see how they did it

[08:29:14]

wagnerrp:

if a particular commit has two branches

[08:29:22]

wagnerrp:

s/branches/parents/

[08:29:32]

wagnerrp:

i would have to follow both branches back to a common ancestor

[08:29:42]

Beirdo:

yeah, pretty much

[08:29:48]

** wagnerrp grumbles **

[08:29:57]

Beirdo:

now...

[08:30:10]

Beirdo:

we could just put in a web service on our server....

[08:30:22]

Beirdo:

where it can do the git describe for ya given an SHA1

[08:30:36]

wagnerrp:

using a locally maintained clone?

[08:30:37]

Beirdo:

and then the server just needs to maintain it's local repo

[08:30:39]

Beirdo:

yeah

[08:30:56]

wagnerrp:

you could do that...

[08:31:14]

Beirdo:

if github can't do it easily, no reason we can't do it ourselves :)

[08:31:19]

wagnerrp:

im going to go ahead with this for now

[08:31:24]

wagnerrp:

see what the time hit for a trace is

[08:31:33]

Beirdo:

sure

[08:31:36]

wagnerrp:

every IP gets 5000 API queries per hour

[08:31:37]

wagnerrp:

:)

[08:31:42]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[08:31:52]

wagnerrp:

their header even returns a countdown so you know when to stop

[08:32:23]

Beirdo:

and you could likely even talk to the github devs to see if they can't expose that functionality in the API too

[08:32:57]

Beirdo:

especially if you make em understand it's to reduce load on their servers, they might just jump on it :)

[08:33:00]

wagnerrp:

i asked the same question a while back in #github, and the response was more one of "well why would you want to do that? just maintain your own local repo."

[08:33:26]

Beirdo:

that would be fine if there were a central package maker

[08:33:40]

Beirdo:

but that's not how ebuilds work, in my understanding

[08:33:43]

wagnerrp:

ignoring the fact that the whole point of this whole thing is to prevent needing to maintain a local repo

[08:34:26]

wagnerrp:

in general, gentoo makes all the ebuilds, and caches all the distfiles, and the users just pull from there

[08:34:40]

wagnerrp:

so they could have their own clone to pull all this data from if they wished

[08:35:03]

wagnerrp:

however if i want to allow the users to create their own ebuilds

[08:35:10]

wagnerrp:

i need to figure this out without a local clone

[08:35:22]

Beirdo:

yeah

[08:35:25]

Beirdo:

fair enough

[08:35:33]

wagnerrp:

because if i had a local clone, i would just say screw it, and use one of those cheesy 'version 99999' ebuilds

[08:35:42]

wagnerrp:

that always updates, and is always the latest unstable version

[08:35:48]

Beirdo:

heh

[08:35:52]

wagnerrp:

like the one marct wrote up

[08:36:15]

wagnerrp:

you dont do that, because you dont get any form of consistency out of it

[08:36:24]

wagnerrp:

its not good packaging practice

[08:36:24]

Beirdo:

yeah

[08:37:02]

Beirdo:

frick

[08:37:11]

Beirdo:

windows slave is kaput.. again

[08:37:16]

Beirdo:

I need to shoot that thing

[08:38:13]

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[08:38:27]

Beirdo:

let's get that restarted before I forget

[08:39:01]

Beirdo:

I hope we get a few inches of snow tonight

[08:39:10]

Beirdo:

so I can justify working from home tomorrow

[08:39:11]

Beirdo:

hehe

[08:39:50]

wagnerrp:

eek... im running some request 3 times for each version

[08:39:58]

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[08:40:01]

Beirdo:

../../../../install/include/mythtv/libmythui/mythpainter.h:71:18: warning: unused parameter âzoomâ [-Wunused-parameter]

[08:40:03]

wagnerrp:

i should only be doing it once for the whole executable instance

[08:40:16]

Beirdo:

OK, who borked the build to have hundreds of stupid warnings?!

[08:40:55]

wagnerrp:

right... forgot thats how i set that thing up to work

[08:40:58]

Beirdo:

that one should be easily fixed, one moment.

[08:43:15]

wagnerrp:

much better

[08:49:11]

wagnerrp:

aggg...

[08:49:55]

wagnerrp:

always reseek your files back to 0

[08:50:38]

wagnerrp:

and now youre completely broken..

[08:52:09]

Beirdo:

I think I'll go make another new quilt binding, this time a consistant color

[08:52:12]

Beirdo:

sigh

[08:52:25]

Beirdo:

I'm not tired enough for bed anyways

[08:54:54]

wagnerrp:

now why are you requesting crap...

[08:55:11]

wagnerrp:

and really poorly to boot

[09:11:08]

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[09:49:05]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: FYI, sphery intends to write a properly log viewer

[09:51:17]

Beirdo:

OKley dokley... 37ft x 2in strip of denim from one pair of jeans. That should do the trick quite nicely

[09:51:19]

wagnerrp:

*proper

[09:51:46]

wagnerrp:

one long strip?

[09:51:52]

wagnerrp:

did you spiral cut the leg or something?

[09:54:11]

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[09:54:35]

wagnerrp:

ok, lets get to writing this horrendous 'walk_back' script

[09:54:58]

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[09:55:20]

Beirdo:

nope, cut into strips then sewn together with a 45 degree angle

[09:55:41]

Beirdo:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/VYYSOiQ . . . t=directlink

[09:55:54]

Beirdo:

that and the next pic should about show it :)

[09:56:17]

wagnerrp:

i with python had a do()while constructor...

[09:56:21]

wagnerrp:

wish

[09:56:40]

Beirdo:

don't they have a C style for() available?

[09:56:48]

Beirdo:

for(;;) type

[09:56:51]

wagnerrp:

no

[09:56:54]

wagnerrp:

not that i know of

[09:57:01]

Beirdo:

if they do, they have a do while :)

[09:57:11]

Beirdo:

with some work

[09:57:18]

wagnerrp:

i can fake it with a while true( if break )

[09:57:24]

Beirdo:

yeah

[09:57:34]

wagnerrp:

but its just not quite as clean

[09:58:22]

Beirdo:

nice. That strip took me about 50min to cut and sew together

[10:01:13]

Beirdo:

tomorrow night, I plan on sewing it onto the quilt. :)

[10:01:21]

Beirdo:

that should be fun.

[10:01:33]

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[10:01:34]

wagnerrp:

is that to close the edge?

[10:01:39]

Beirdo:

yup

[10:02:08]

Beirdo:

it gets double-folded in the process. Should work nicely

[10:02:36]

Beirdo:

I only needed 28' + a foot or so to be sure

[10:02:40]

Beirdo:

I got 37'

[10:02:49]

Beirdo:

so I'll definitely be cutting some off :)

[10:03:12]

Beirdo:

7' a side, plus extra to miter the corners, and some overlap

[10:04:03]

Beirdo:

then I will have a fairly heavy and warm quilt to use :)

[10:04:31]

wagnerrp:

so lets see what this does...

[10:04:50]

Beirdo:

haven't decided if I'm gonna hand-sew the finish or not

[10:04:56]

Beirdo:

that's a LOT of sewing

[10:08:29]

Beirdo:

anyways, I think I shall get some sleep and hope for snow.

[10:08:30]

Beirdo:

heh

[10:09:00]

wagnerrp:

hope for?

[10:09:42]

Beirdo:

yeah, so I have an excuse to work from home tomorrow

[10:09:52]

Beirdo:

I know, fat chance

[10:10:07]

Beirdo:

I'll get in there, then get stuck at work due to snow instead

[10:10:24]

wagnerrp:

lets see how well this thing did...

[10:10:33]

Beirdo:

anywho. Night ;)

[10:10:43]

wagnerrp:

off by one...

[10:57:24]

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ahhughez:

in my upcoming recordings schedule. Some are yellow and have 'N' at the end of them and a comment saying "Single Record — Not Listed" wtf is that?

[12:14:04]

ahhughez:

basically, it wont get recorded but why?

[12:15:01]

ahhughez:

is it because the program has changed and the times no longer match???

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[16:13:43]

frtorres:

moin

[16:14:18]

frtorres:

!seen wagnerrp

[16:14:18]

MythLogBot:

wagnerrp is here and has been idle for 4 hours 20 minutes 29 seconds

[16:14:30]

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[16:15:28]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: I followed your advice to compile mythtv from git instead of svn

[16:16:02]

frtorres:

I compiled sucessfully. I wanted to use my saa7134 bases analig card in mythtv

[16:16:34]

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[16:16:36]

frtorres:

seems the tuner has a problem in .24+fixes. I got a: Failed to find any new channels! message

[16:16:53]

frtorres:

tv card is working perfectly with mplayer. changing channels, etc

[16:17:07]

wagnerrp:

failed to find any new channels?

[16:17:19]

wagnerrp:

is this a frontend popup? or something in the logs?

[16:17:36]

frtorres:

yes. It is a front end pop up

[16:17:47]

frtorres:

sorry mythtv-setup pop up

[16:18:01]

wagnerrp:

what did you do just prior to that?

[16:18:39]

frtorres:

created the card. Was detected ok. changed norm to ntsc-cable

[16:19:14]

frtorres:

created a viudeo source

[16:19:33]

wagnerrp:

norm/ntsc-cable/whatever makes no difference if youre not using a tuner

[16:19:36]

frtorres:

and created an input connection

[16:19:54]

frtorres:

and searched for new channels from that screen

[16:20:05]

wagnerrp:

input connections are enumerated, you attach one to a video source

[16:20:17]

wagnerrp:

and by 'searching for new channels', you mean you scanned?

[16:20:25]

frtorres:

the first one=TV

[16:20:34]

frtorres:

yes scanned

[16:21:08]

wagnerrp:

how would you scan anything? youve not given mythtv a tuner to control

[16:21:26]

wagnerrp:

its just going to sit there playing with /bin/true as it receives the same thing on every channel it tests

[16:21:26]

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[16:21:55]

wagnerrp:

that is assuming scanning even works with baseband capture inputs (im not sure of that)

[16:22:08]

wagnerrp:

just create a dummy channel

[16:22:36]

wagnerrp:

manually

[16:23:21]

frtorres:

ok

[16:25:02]

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[16:25:51]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: I saw a thread of April 12, 2010 saying that "Analog TV is currently broken in MythTV with analog TV grabbers (we also tested other tuners which have been known to be supported). The last known working MythTV version is 0.21 (which comes with eg. Ubuntu 8.04)"

[16:26:23]

frtorres:

is it still valid with 0.24? this card worked perfectly 3 years ago.

[16:26:33]

frtorres:

I know it is an old card :)

[16:27:27]

wagnerrp:

the channel scanner was rewritten for 0.22, which broke scanning for analog channels

[16:27:39]

wagnerrp:

analog capture works just fine

[16:27:48]

wagnerrp:

and the scanner has since been fixed, and should work fine in 0.24

[16:27:59]

wagnerrp:

except you arent tuning anything to be able to scan

[16:30:20]

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[16:31:22]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: Yes I see. Scanner should work if I am able to change channels on that card with mplayer or tvtime sucessfully. Not sure what is wrong.

[16:31:52]

frtorres:

will test what you said

[16:32:07]

wagnerrp:

youre not changing anything

[16:32:13]

wagnerrp:

youre using a baseband input

[16:32:13]

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[16:32:18]

wagnerrp:

there is no tuning, there are no channels

[16:32:50]

wagnerrp:

baseband being the 4-pin S-video, or thick composite RCA plug

[16:33:03]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to the tunable modulated threaded F connector

[16:35:59]

frtorres:

sorry wganerrp: I did not explain the connection made. I defined an input connection on [V4L: /dev/video0] (Television) -> vs where vs is the video source previosly defined.

[16:36:40]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, I know. I figure it was better to at least have it not die horribly until then :)

[16:36:48]

frtorres:

then used to option to scan for channels getting the pop up message: Failed to find any new channels!

[16:37:32]

wagnerrp:

frtorres: you have your cable box's threaded TV-out connector plugged into the tuner's threaded ANT-in connector?

[16:37:33]

frtorres:

I have a coaxial tv cable from my cable company connected to my analog card.

[16:37:46]

wagnerrp:

i thought you were using composite

[16:37:48]

frtorres:

yes wagnerrp

[16:37:55]

frtorres:

sorry for that

[16:38:01]

wagnerrp:

you should be using svideo, actually

[16:38:11]

wagnerrp:

then composite, then RF only as a last resort

[16:38:34]

stuartm:

so complete boxsets chew through disk space ... I'm reminded of why I chose not to rip my DVDs earlier, it's an expensive way of avoiding the hassle of removing a disc from a case and inserting it into the drive

[16:38:36]

wagnerrp:

in any case, you will only have the one channel, so just manually specify that channel

[16:38:39]

wagnerrp:

there is no sense scanning

[16:38:52]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: its only expensive as of last October

[16:38:56]

stuartm:

although I'm also just realising that makemkv isn't re-encoding

[16:39:19]

wagnerrp:

heh

[16:40:13]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: fyi: top_hat's issue is he needs the xc5000 modprobe option "no_poweroff=1"

[16:40:19]

devinheitmueller:

(in case he comes back and I'm not around)

[16:40:22]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: well, still over £6 per series even at the old prices, 250GB at least I estimate for this one

[16:40:45]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: I previosly used [V4L: /dev/video0] (Television) and scanned channels sucessfully.

[16:40:46]

RagingMind:

frtorres, just curious cause now I'm lost following the conversation. do you have a cable box or does the cable go from your wall directly to your analog card?

[16:41:00]

wagnerrp:

RagingMind: former

[16:41:19]

wagnerrp:

in addition, he has no IR blaster or mechanism to control the cable box, no guide data, and no intention of getting either

[16:41:26]

frtorres:

I can see tv and change channels sucesfully in mplayer

[16:41:50]

wagnerrp:

change channels in mplayer how exactly?

[16:41:59]

frtorres:

works perfect. But mythtv-setup can not find channels on [V4L: /dev/video0] (Television) input connector for mythtv-setup

[16:42:06]

wagnerrp:

this is a digital cable box, outputting NTSC analog that you are capturing

[16:42:09]

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[16:42:11]

wagnerrp:

you have no channels to find

[16:42:17]

wagnerrp:

you only have channel 3 (or possibly 4)

[16:42:30]

wagnerrp:

and in any case, thats not even what you want

[16:42:33]

frtorres:

No it is a regular and old cable box NTSC

[16:42:40]

wagnerrp:

oh?

[16:42:43]

RagingMind:

the mplayer thing is why I got confused

[16:42:49]

wagnerrp:

well then scrap the whole thing and plug the tuner directly into the wall

[16:43:04]

wagnerrp:

throw away the cable box if its not doing anything

[16:43:23]

wagnerrp:

i thought you were using digital cable (which is the only reason you would be fiddling with a cable box in the first place)

[16:43:38]

frtorres:

please see thios link: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Saa7134-alsa

[16:43:38]

RagingMind:

frtorres, curious again. how old are you?

[16:44:03]

frtorres:

"Watch with mplayer " section

[16:44:38]

frtorres:

with that command I can see tv and change channels with the mplayer key-bindings "h", etc

[16:44:58]

wagnerrp:

if you can change channels in mplayer, then you are not using a cable box

[16:45:04]

wagnerrp:

if the cable box happens to be in-line

[16:45:05]

frtorres:

RagingMind: I am 1F (hexa) years old

[16:45:19]

wagnerrp:

then the cable box must be unplugged, and you are just receiving the passthrough signal from the wall

[16:45:39]

frtorres:

yes wagnerrp

[16:46:32]

frtorres:

most channels are unencrypted

[16:46:41]

wagnerrp:

all channels are unencrypted

[16:46:49]

wagnerrp:

analog cable cannot be encrypted

[16:46:57]

frtorres:

yes ok

[16:47:03]

wagnerrp:

they can be scrambled, but that is something different

[16:47:10]

frtorres:

yes, ok.

[16:47:14]

wagnerrp:

did you see devinheitmueller's comment above?

[16:47:36]

wagnerrp:

there are issues with how mythtv handles that tuner when scanning or changing channels

[16:47:56]

RagingMind:

frtorres, are you using cable box to describe the type of cable you're subscribed to and not that there is a physical box?

[16:47:59]

wagnerrp:

requiring a special way of loading the module to compensate

[16:48:45]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: are you comment on this? "wagnerrp: fyi: top_hat's issue is he needs the xc5000 modprobe option "no_poweroff=1""?

[16:48:53]

wagnerrp:

yes

[16:48:59]

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[16:50:02]

frtorres:

RagingMind: Is what wagnerrp said: "then the cable box must be unplugged, and you are just receiving the passthrough signal from the wall"

[16:50:31]

frtorres:

RagingMind: this is a building and we have an agreement to have tv in all apartments

[16:50:36]

wagnerrp:

you actually have the cable box in line with the tuner then? or the cable box is independent and or non-existent

[16:51:32]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: I assume the cable box in line. I just plug the cable from the wall. Tge signal comes directly to TVsets or in thios case to my analog card.

[16:51:45]

RagingMind:

there we go!

[16:51:55]

wagnerrp:

if your tuner card is plugged into the wall, there is no "cable box"

[16:53:19]

frtorres:

yes wagnerrp I took a coaxial cable coming from the wall previosly connected to a TV SET. btw in that TV set channel scanning was ok and I have more than 20 channels to see

[16:53:42]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: the same cable is connected now to my analog card

[16:54:09]

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[16:54:21]

frtorres:

on this pc. Sorry If I was not clear and confused your analisys to help me

[16:54:33]

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[16:55:06]

RagingMind:

frtorres, just a miss communication in terms. tends to happen on irc ;)

[16:58:13]

wagnerrp:

try doing what devinheitmueller suggested

[16:58:24]

wagnerrp:

unload the existing module, and load it back in with that option

[16:58:45]

wagnerrp:

rmmod xc5000; modprobe xc5000 no_poweroff=1

[16:59:58]

frtorres:

ok

[17:00:38]

wagnerrp:

note, that will fail if anything is currently accessing the tuner

[17:00:49]

awalls:

saa7134 might not be happy with xc5000 being removed and reinstalled.

[17:00:51]

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[17:01:06]

awalls:

you might have to unload the bridge driver too.

[17:01:17]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: I us saa7134 module instead of xc5000

[17:01:21]

frtorres:

are ther related?

[17:01:35]

wagnerrp:

with an HVR-950Q?

[17:01:37]

awalls:

saa7134 uses the xc5000 modules for certain video cards

[17:01:58]

frtorres:

ok I will try

[17:02:08]

wagnerrp:

if thats the case, you may need to unload saa7134 before you can unload xc5000

[17:02:22]

awalls:

wagnerrp: +1

[17:02:49]

awalls:

then reload the xc5000 module with the option, before reloading saa7134

[17:03:15]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: woah, sorry I really should have waited a few minutes before mentioning the xc5000 thing. That is for the guy you were talking to earlier (top_hat) who has an HVR-950q, and has nothing to do with the saa7134 problem you are discussing

[17:03:37]

frtorres:

ok.

[17:03:44]

frtorres:

thanks devinheitmueller

[17:04:32]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: options saa7134 card=63 tuner=47 for my card

[17:05:31]

wagnerrp:

OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH!

[17:05:42]

wagnerrp:

i was getting you and top_hat from last night confused

[17:05:54]

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[17:05:55]

frtorres:

no problem wagnerrp

[17:06:05]

devinheitmueller:

If he's jamming in the board definition via "card=", it's possible the signal detect isn't working (which means you might see a picture in mplayer but apps like MythTV would think the channel tune failed).

[17:06:09]

wagnerrp:

well now this whole thing makes a whole lot more sense

[17:06:31]

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[17:07:42]

devinheitmueller:

.... I haven't looked at the MythTV source code closely, but I wouldn't be surprised if it expected the G_TUNER ioctl() to require the locked field to be set in order to conclude the tune was successful.

[17:12:49]

frtorres:

yes

[17:14:59]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: BTW, I also compiled the unstable mythtv, latest version. Card is not autodetected. So I had to type /dev/video0 and was identified automatically. Same result trying to scan channels. Same pop up message in mythtv-setup.

[17:16:16]

frtorres:

devinheitmueller: I used a board definition via

[17:16:16]

wagnerrp:

if you select the 'V4L' type from the dropdown, which should be the default

[17:16:35]

wagnerrp:

mythtv will enumerate ALL devices of the format /dev/video* and /dev/v4l/video*

[17:16:56]

wagnerrp:

there is no filtering of any sort

[17:17:03]

frtorres:

devinheitmueller: I used a board definition via "card=" because that worked ok some years ok. Now the card is autodetect4ed by newews kernel

[17:17:05]

wagnerrp:

its anything and everything that matches that filename

[17:17:43]

wagnerrp:

the only way i can think of that it would not enumerate your device, is if you had the wrong device type selected

[17:17:59]

wagnerrp:

which would in turn explain why scanning does not work, because it is trying to scan the wrong device type

[17:20:49]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: I am in unstable mythtv now. I deleted the Capture Card in mythtv-setup. Probed Info: shows Failed to open message.

[17:21:05]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: Video device field is in blank

[17:21:07]

wagnerrp:

the dropdown at the top, what device type is listed there

[17:21:54]

frtorres:

If I type there /dev/video0 then Probed info detects Kworld X[ert TV..... My analog card

[17:22:10]

wagnerrp:

what device type is listed in the dropdown at the top of that window?

[17:22:16]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: Analog V4L capture card

[17:22:49]

wagnerrp:

odd... it should just be doing a simple filename search

[17:23:06]

wagnerrp:

at least that was the extent to what i read last time i looked through that code

[17:25:05]

frtorres:

This is what happen stpe by step: choose New Capture Card -> Screen with fields: Card Type=Analog V4L capture card, video device= blank (no info), Probed info=Failed to open, VBI device=/dev/vbi0

[17:26:14]

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[17:26:24]

frtorres:

If I type, /dev/vido0 on video device field. Then probed info=Kworld Xpert TV PRV 7134 [saa7134]

[17:27:53]

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[17:29:28]

frtorres:

wagnerrp: after defining video source and input connections, when I start the option to scan for channels the line STATUS=shows the channel searched (2....128) with te word= LOCKED word in the right. Ater that I got a pop up =Failed to get any new channels message

[17:30:12]

frtorres:

That is whaat happen in mythtv unstable now.

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[17:50:19]

frtorres:

wagnerrp / devinheitmueller: any hint for my case?. I appreciate and value your help and time.

[17:51:06]

wagnerrp:

if the 'V4L' type is not enumerating a /dev/video0, bad things are going on outside my expertise

[17:51:32]

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[17:51:44]

frtorres:

ok wagnerrp

[17:53:54]

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[18:03:34]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: looks like someone near you just signed up for the wiki

[18:03:43]

wagnerrp:

some apartment on 3rd street

[18:05:31]

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[18:10:42]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: whonow?

[18:11:09]

wagnerrp:

most recent wiki entry

[18:11:24]

wagnerrp:

youre in SJ, right?

[18:11:27]

iamlindoro:

All I see is a creation/name... how do I know where he lives?

[18:11:29]

iamlindoro:

Yes

[18:11:50]

wagnerrp:

username and email didnt seem to match up

[18:12:13]

wagnerrp:

but the ip goes with the address on the email domain whois

[18:12:48]

iamlindoro:

If the person actually lives on 3rd street, that's the ghettowwwww

[18:37:40]

Beirdo:

yay, got my wish

[18:37:56]

Beirdo:

2.5" of snow... and counting

[18:38:16]

Beirdo:

stood out there for an hour waiting for a half-hourly bus then gave up

[18:45:06]

wagnerrp:

panasonic demo'd some tv that could stream recordings over DNLA from a time warner DVR

[18:45:13]

wagnerrp:

how exactly is that supposed to work?

[18:45:32]

wagnerrp:

DNLA is used for detection and content listings

[18:45:45]

wagnerrp:

but they use their own proprietary codes for key exchange?

[18:45:53]

stuartm:

someone got their terminology confused?

[18:54:02]

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[19:55:50]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: could be it supports DTCP.

[19:57:38]

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[19:57:59]

wagnerrp:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/11/panasonic- . . . cabletv-app/

[19:58:27]

wagnerrp:

i wonder if thats something to do with the 'media gateway' the fcc started to outline as a replacement for cablecard

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[20:03:46]

devinheitmueller:

The allvid stuff is intended to use DLNA/DTCP, and that's probably what they're doing here, but they're not necessarily related initiatives.

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[21:38:44]

kisak_:

wagnerrp:

[21:38:47]

kisak_:

wagnerrp: ping?

[21:39:21]

wagnerrp:

?

[21:39:44]

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[21:39:53]

kisak_:

I've got a conclusion to the mythweb steaming puzzle I've been working on

[21:40:32]

kisak_:

turns out http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/10155 covers my headache

[21:41:34]

stuartm:

that's funny, tickets tend to give me headaches

[21:43:29]

kisak_:

on the flip side, I did get to force myself to use strace for the first time

[21:50:32]

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[21:52:48]

kisak_:

I just thought I'd like you know since most random users don't follow up

[21:53:18]

kisak_:

of course, it's perfectly fine to not care

[21:53:42]

stuartm:

we always appreciate those who take the time to investigate and report their bugs :)

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[22:19:14]

wagnerrp:

it is officially no longer worth getting anything less than 4GB of memory in a new system

[22:19:23]

wagnerrp:

1GB sticks and 2GB sticks are the same price on newegg

[22:19:28]

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[22:20:29]

sphery:

yeah, found the same thing when I bought my parts a couple weeks ago

[22:20:33]

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[22:25:54]

wagnerrp:

sphery: did AMD stop manufacturing the old athlon/phenom parts?

[22:26:02]

wagnerrp:

newegg is out of AthII X2s

[22:28:11]

sphery:

not sure... I wouldn't be surprised

[22:28:23]

sphery:

(but will be disappointed)

[22:29:16]

stuartm:

interesting, there is still a price differential in the UK, 2GB kit is ~£25 vs £35 for 4GB

[22:29:30]

stuartm:

of course the 4GB is much better value

[22:29:39]

sphery:

I got my 4GB (2x2GB) for $19.99

[22:30:18]

sphery:

DDR3/1333 (PC3 10666)

[22:30:34]

sphery:

now 2x4GB was quite a bit more

[22:30:41]

stuartm:

there is cheaper stuff available, I'm using Crucial as a guide here, and DDR2 since that's what my system will take

[22:31:51]

sphery:

yeah, mine was a sale price, too... but all said and done was able to find 2x2GB kit for as cheap as any 2x1GB kit

[22:33:01]

sphery:

still trying to figure out which video card to get... will probably make this a kitchen mythfrontend system. Seems the GT220 is hard to find/expensive, so have to decide between GT430 and GT520, but I didn't pay much attention to post GT220 cards

[22:33:16]

stuartm:

ouch, DDR3 is dirt cheap compared to DDR2 ... might even work out the same if I bought a new mobo

[22:33:32]

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[22:34:33]

wagnerrp:

expect similar performance, but lower power consumption, with the 520

[22:34:33]

stuartm:

i.e. mobo + 4x 2GB DDR3 == 4x 2GB DDR2

[22:34:48]

wagnerrp:

there both iffy for VDPAU High Quality at 1080i60

[22:34:58]

sphery:

wagnerrp: nice... that means I'd prefer the 520 (and it seems I can get it cheaper than the 430, too)

[22:35:34]

sphery:

so the 220 was better for vdpau than the 430/520?

[22:36:56]

wagnerrp:

scratch that, the 520 is considerably lesser than the 430

[22:37:00]

sphery:

wow, I'm way behind... just got to the Sony Crystal LED story on reg

[22:37:03]

wagnerrp:

while the 530 IS a 430

[22:37:07]

sphery:

ahhh

[22:37:13]

sphery:

didn't even see the 530 listed

[22:38:23]

wagnerrp:

as i understand it, its an issue with the core configuration, and optimizations in the libraries

[22:38:37]

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[22:38:49]

wagnerrp:

the 430 has double the vertex shaders (96) but half the pixel shaders (4)

[22:38:56]

wagnerrp:

and the deinterlacers dont like it much

[22:39:29]

wagnerrp:

the 520 is basically half a 430

[22:39:45]

wagnerrp:

at half the power consumption

[22:40:41]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://news.ati-forum.de/index.php/news/35-am . . . -prozessoren

[22:41:19]

sphery:

can't find the english announcement

[22:41:47]

sphery:

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/69-cpu-chi . . . cessors.html has an english story

[22:42:33]

wagnerrp:

well thats a shame

[22:42:36]

sphery:

yeah

[22:42:45]

sphery:

though I'm all for making Fusion parts better

[22:43:41]

wagnerrp:

fusion parts would be great...ish... if the drivers were better

[22:44:13]

sphery:

even though TDP is higher for equivalent speeds, assuming disabling the GPU truly disables it, you wouldn't have to count that power usage against the CPU if you use a discrete GPU, so I think they're probably very competitive in power

[22:44:24]

sphery:

only means you have to buy the GPU, even if you don't use it

[22:44:45]

sphery:

then again, I still haven't found any true confirmation that you can completely disable the GPU/its power draw

[22:45:38]

stuartm:

I'm getting really tired of constantly playing catchup with hardware developments/changes, especially since it's pretty difficult to say how a completely new system would be better than this 2–3 year old one I've got now

[22:46:40]

sphery:

yeah, fortunately(?) I have many (9) systems (not counting my 1 laptop), so I just buy completely new ones and then roll down existing systems so that I decommission the oldest/worst system on my network

[22:46:52]

stuartm:

significantly lower power is about the only thing that would make an upgrade compelling

[22:47:30]

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[22:47:30]

skd5aner:

I like my 240

[22:47:34]

sphery:

and since I still have 2 Athlon XP systems and 1 Athlon 64 (original), I still have a long time before I'll be decommissioning some really-not-good systems

[22:47:56]

skd5aner:

although – I would still like a vdpau card with component out – not sure if they ever started making those again

[22:48:46]

sphery:

and, yeah, for the XP systems (and to a lesser extent, the original Athlon 64), there's actually some power savings to be had in replacing them (though they're all 65W TDP CPUs, the new systems have much better power saving capability)

[22:48:51]

stuartm:

otherwise this desktop doesn't run slow, I could use another 2GB+ of RAM but otherwise ...

[22:49:07]

sphery:

though since I run BOINC/SETI@home on all of them...

[22:49:23]

stuartm:

strike one of those 'otherwise', I must be getting tired ;)

[22:49:32]

sphery:

skd5aner: 240 is like or better than 220?

[22:49:55]

stuartm:

sphery: heh, yeah that would pretty much negate any power saving features

[22:49:57]

skd5aner:

yes, just a little more powerful if I remember

[22:50:04]

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[22:50:40]

sphery:

stuartm: yeah, with my XPs, it was costing about $1.50/mo/system to run seti@home... I'm guessing it's closer to $5/mo/system for the Athlon IIs

[22:51:05]

skd5aner:

sphery: ". Based upon the GT215 core, the GT 240 is functionally a derivative of the low-end GT 220. Compared to the GT 220 it packs twice as many shader units, twice as many texture units, and support for GDDR5, making it a good deal faster than the GT 220." and the GT240 had a GDDR5 option as well

[22:51:23]

sphery:

skd5aner: nice... gotta check that one, too

[22:52:00]

skd5aner:

It doesn't do some of the newer stuff though – I can't remember what that is exactly – although it is feature set C (HQ Scaling)

[22:52:00]

sphery:

so, newegg doesn't have the 530, but does have 240

[22:52:35]

skd5aner:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2906

[22:52:39]

skd5aner:

sphery: ^

[22:53:08]

sphery:

will probably wait and watch the newegg shell shocker deals to get which ever one I can at a good discount

[22:53:36]

sphery:

I really wish there were more power-usage data available for video cards

[22:53:59]

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[22:54:11]

likwid--_:

anyone have recommendations for nas's to be used with myth? something like a drobo/synology/etc/etc

[22:54:25]

skd5aner:

so that you could say you saved like "$4 dollars more this year" ?

[22:54:48]

Seeker`:

Why not got for a GT430?

[22:54:49]

skd5aner:

likwid--_: not generally recommended – most people use direct attached disks

[22:55:06]

likwid--_:

boo

[22:55:40]

likwid--_:

so, a raid card with some kind of huge case for all the drives is the way to go?

[22:55:47]

sphery:

all I ever find is the little statements like that one... "NVIDIA's latest efforts at lowering idle power usage can be seen here, with a 9W idle power usage (only 2W more than the GT 220) while load power is specified as 70W – 70W likely being chosen to avoid the need for a PCIe power connector."

[22:55:58]

wagnerrp:

sphery: its still more expensive for the same clock, and you get significantly less cache

[22:56:09]

skd5aner:

likwid--_: raid or no raid – basically

[22:56:11]

wagnerrp:

and no option at all for the L3 of the Phenoms

[22:56:31]

wagnerrp:

likwid--_: honestly, id say no raid card

[22:56:44]

sphery:

wagnerrp: right, but pricing will drop as they improve--which they'll do faster if they concentrate on only the new stuff

[22:56:56]

wagnerrp:

if you want to do raid for an archive, do software raid

[22:56:58]

skd5aner:

skd5aner: with storage groups, and dedicated drives for mythtv to use, simply mounting a drive is and putting a storage group on top of the mount is the easiest, fastest, and simplest

[22:57:02]

wagnerrp:

preferably zfs or btrfs

[22:57:17]

wagnerrp:

for actual recording, just use independent drives

[22:57:20]

sphery:

and I'm sure that there will be changes to cache and all to support more high-performance setups

[22:57:39]

wagnerrp:

likwid--_: if youre already going to have a server full of tuner cards stashed somewhere

[22:57:49]

wagnerrp:

there is no reason not to stuff it full of hard drives as well

[22:58:15]

wagnerrp:

drobos/synologys are for people who dont otherwise have a nice, always-on server laying around

[22:58:34]

skd5aner:

or want something that's ONLY used for backup purposes

[22:59:06]

wagnerrp:

nah, id still rather use a hotswap bay in that always-on server for backup purposes

[22:59:19]

skd5aner:

that's not really backup – that's redundancy

[22:59:34]

wagnerrp:

or better yet, another full server i could throw incremental snapshots at

[22:59:37]

skd5aner:

if your server catches fire – you're toast... <rimshot>

[22:59:39]

wagnerrp:

whats not really backup?

[22:59:55]

Seeker`:

RAID isn't backup

[23:00:09]

wagnerrp:

well no one said anything about leaving that hotswap drive in there when not actively been backed up to

[23:00:20]

skd5aner:

well, let me clarify – if you're backing up your server to a disk that's attached to the same server (RAID or not) – that's a pretty weak backup scheme

[23:00:38]

wagnerrp:

im talking about something you slot in, dump to, and then store in a secure cabinet or off site

[23:00:40]

skd5aner:

if you're backing up to a server from other devices, then I would say that is a backup

[23:00:58]

skd5aner:

so, offline backup

[23:01:01]

wagnerrp:

something similar to how tape backups work

[23:01:09]

wagnerrp:

only with a hard drive

[23:01:25]

skd5aner:

right – ok, agreed

[23:01:36]

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[23:01:43]

skd5aner:

but – I was thinking of the "always on" scenario relative to a NAS device

[23:05:36]

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[23:09:33]

stuartm:

that's got me wondering if anyone sells a NAS in a fire-resistant enclosure (and how they deal with the problem of dumping internal heat)

[23:10:37]

stuartm:

http://www.hddfiresafe.com/ < apparently someone does

[23:11:24]

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[23:13:14]

likwid--_:

is it slowness writing over the network thats the problem? more spindles more speed right?

[23:13:39]

wagnerrp:

likwid--_: for what purpose?

[23:13:40]

kormoc:

stuartm, http://iosafe.com/

[23:14:08]

stuartm:

and the answer to the second question is mechanical vents which close in response to extreme external temperatures

[23:14:26]

wagnerrp:

there are all kinds of different IO patterns, and they are ideally suited for different types of storage arrays

[23:14:27]

stuartm:

kormoc: yeah, that's the same firm as I linked above

[23:14:50]

kormoc:

stuartm, whoops!

[23:14:59]

kormoc:

they have a few fan less models too

[23:15:16]

likwid--_:

wagnerrp. recordings

[23:16:12]

wagnerrp:

with recordings, the issue is about independent spindles and independent filesystems

[23:16:37]

wagnerrp:

since recordings are run on a 1-second sync loop, best case means you have 3–4 reseeks per second per recording

[23:16:37]

stuartm:

likwid--_: consumer grade NAS products all have lousy read/write speeds, something to do with saving power – they are fine for backup or mostly read-only operations like storing videos but not for recording

[23:16:51]

wagnerrp:

as it writes data, and writes filesystem metadata in a couple different locations

[23:17:12]

stuartm:

building a cheap PC with in a large case with plenty of space for disks is better in the long run

[23:17:25]

wagnerrp:

independent spindles means those seek operations can be spread out, while an array would have to seek each disk in unison

[23:17:41]

wagnerrp:

independent filesystems means significantly lesser chance for heavy fragmentation

[23:18:07]

stuartm:

and possibly it's cheaper too – network speeds aren't a problem, few HDDs are faster enough to trouble a gigabit network

[23:18:13]

likwid--_:

so, building a cheap pc with lots of space and exporting independent disks with NFS or iscsi

[23:18:27]

wagnerrp:

nfs and iscsi for what?

[23:18:40]

wagnerrp:

only backends need disk access

[23:18:46]

wagnerrp:

and only machines with tuner cards need backends

[23:18:55]

likwid--_:

im still with the idea of a seperate storage system away from the backend.

[23:18:59]

likwid--_:

that the backend could mount

[23:19:02]

wagnerrp:

why?

[23:19:10]

wagnerrp:

i mean theres nothing particularly wrong with that

[23:19:12]

likwid--_:

my current situation i suppose. i have a be/fe

[23:19:17]

wagnerrp:

but why mess with multiple machines?

[23:19:29]

wagnerrp:

stuff the backend on the fileserver, and use a dedicated frontend

[23:19:37]

wagnerrp:

dedicated frontend >>> dedicated fileserver

[23:20:11]

wizbit:

or stick a nvidia card in the backend and use it as a frontend also, if the gpu is doing all the work it will not effect the cpu of the backend

[23:20:19]

stuartm:

more machines == more power == higher running costs (not to mention the initial outlay), the architecture wagnerrp suggests makes more sense

[23:20:39]

wagnerrp:

generally, your backend is going to stay on all the time

[23:20:48]

wagnerrp:

and if your backend is online, your storage has to be online

[23:20:55]

stuartm:

wizbit: not many people want a large noisy chassis in their living areas

[23:21:10]

wizbit:

my backend is silent

[23:21:18]

likwid--_:

my backend is my frontend. ups is delivering a drive any minute. when i open the case going to check out my expansion options (free sata ports)

[23:21:20]

wagnerrp:

so just stick them on the single shared machine, and power your frontend on and off at your own time schedule with the remote

[23:21:36]

stuartm:

wizbit: it wouldn't be with multiple tuners and disks, they create too much heat

[23:21:50]

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[23:21:54]

wizbit:

well, its not silent, but not far offf

[23:23:20]

wizbit:

bedroom = backend / frontend combo living room – silent frontend hp dc7700

[23:24:04]

wagnerrp:

i definitely wouldnt want any machine in my bedroom that couldnt have all spinning parts turned off

[23:24:08]

wizbit:

if you use a frontend and your backend is right next to it, what is the point of that?

[23:24:24]

wagnerrp:

right next to what?

[23:24:39]

wizbit:

imagine 2 boxes in same room, backend box and a seperate frontend

[23:24:50]

wagnerrp:

my backend is right next to a cold dark corner in my basement

[23:24:55]

wizbit:

aye ok

[23:25:11]

wagnerrp:

dry, cold, dark, and dry

[23:25:14]

wagnerrp:

the dry bit is important

[23:25:29]

** wizbit would like to take a look at wagnerrps backend **

[23:26:29]

wagnerrp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811182551

[23:26:59]

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[23:27:15]

wizbit:

thats a beast :D

[23:27:33]

wizbit:

runing gentoo?

[23:28:17]

wagnerrp:

no

[23:28:28]

Bide:

hello, anyone have any experience with the infinitv4 pcie? im running mythbuntu 11.10 v.25

[23:28:53]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: Windows Server? ;)

[23:29:02]

wagnerrp:

no, but its not linux either

[23:29:03]

wagnerrp:

:P

[23:29:15]

wagnerrp:

silly penguins

[23:29:18]

wizbit:

*bsd

[23:29:24]

wizbit:

free i guess, because of drivers

[23:29:53]

** wagnerrp attacks wizbit... with a trident **

[23:30:13]

wagnerrp is now known as Brick

[23:30:21]

Brick is now known as wagnerrp

[23:30:23]

wagnerrp:

aww... registered

[23:30:29]

AndyCap:

hah, out of stock of course.

[23:30:42]

wagnerrp:

its been out of stock for like four years

[23:30:56]

wagnerrp:

i bought that thing in like 2003

[23:32:20]

wizbit:

what operating systems can the backend run on? windows, linux, freebsd? are there any others?

[23:32:46]

AndyCap:

this one was ok, tiny bit on the cramped side. http://www.yycase.com/yy-0221.htm

[23:33:09]

skd5aner:

man, that escalated really quickly

[23:33:53]

wagnerrp:

most things POSIX

[23:34:16]

wagnerrp:

but everything other than linux is basically limited to the HDHR

[23:34:48]

wizbit:

if there are no tv card drivers, there wouldnt be much point

[23:34:50]

wagnerrp:

AndyCap: that was actually the other one i was looking at at the time

[23:36:17]

wagnerrp:

space for 10 hot-swappable drives, as opposed to 16 in mine

[23:36:35]

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[23:36:50]

wagnerrp:

but 9 3.5" bays compared to my 6

[23:38:31]

likwid--_:

but, to your suggestion, they aren't really hotswappable eh? independent disks

[23:38:45]

wagnerrp:

huh?

[23:39:40]

likwid--_:

<wagnerrp> independent spindles means those seek operations can be spread out

[23:39:51]

wagnerrp:

what about it?

[23:40:21]

likwid--_:

<wagnerrp> for actual recording, just use independent drives

[23:40:28]

likwid--_:

hot-swappable would mean nothing

[23:40:34]

wagnerrp:

unmount the drive, pull it, and mythtv will balance out on whatever is remaining

[23:42:15]

wagnerrp:

i have 2x2TB drives in there for recording, 2x320GB mirrored for OS, and 9x750GB in RAID6 for primarily read-only archive

[23:44:03]

skd5aner:

I should really raid my video SG drives

[23:46:05]

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[23:46:54]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: It has served me well. :) would have been cool if it was 1cm smaller, because then it would fit in an ikea shelf, but that's ok.

[23:48:23]

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[23:48:24]

likwid--_:

wagnerrp, did you run some script to export out the recordings to live in the read-only section?

[23:48:29]

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[23:48:53]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvidexport.py

[23:51:25]

likwid--_:

well that changes my whole gameplan on storage. :)

[23:52:18]

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[23:52:19]

wagnerrp:

anything i want to keep long term, i edit, losslessly transcode, and shuffle over to the array with that script

[23:54:13]

likwid--_:

and now i understand. now, making that read-only archive a NAS device, you see problems in that?

[23:54:25]

likwid--_:

its just for recording that there is no recommendation for

[23:54:27]

likwid--_:

?

[23:55:00]

wagnerrp:

i see no problems with it

[23:55:18]

wagnerrp:

i just see no utility in a little NAS box when you have a nice linux server right there to use

[23:55:47]

wagnerrp:

in reality, the NAS box is nothing but a linux server running on some MIPS or ARM, or possibly Atom CPU

[23:56:10]

wagnerrp:

but your existing server would be considerably more capable

[23:57:14]

wagnerrp:

a couple hundred MB of memory, and a chip less powerful than my 10yr old laptop, just doesn't interest me

[23:59:30]

mersault:

I just threw 6x2TB drives into a RAID6 array in my backend and called it a day.

[23:59:39]

stuartm:

they have their uses, when you have no room for additional drives or you want that storage/backup in a different physical location

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