Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Saturday, December 10th, 2011, 00:00 UTC

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LTHorn (LTHorn!~Android@184.sub-174-253-12.myvzw.com) has joined #mythtv-users

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LTHorn:

hello.

[00:04:51]

LTHorn:

anyone alive out there?

[00:07:14]

sphery:

Not since patient 0 ate that hamburger from the Gas n Gulp...

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LTHorn:

that's disappointing

[00:08:16]

sphery:

if you have a question, best bet is to ask, and if someone who knows the answer is around, they'll respond :)

[00:08:18]

LTHorn:

who'd be the one that I'd need to talk to for help with building my first htpc?

[00:10:13]

iamlindoro:

There is no one

[00:10:21]

iamlindoro:

ask a specific question, and any number of people can help you

[00:11:36]

LTHorn:

for recording 720 and 1080 which Hauppauge card would be best?

[00:11:56]

LTHorn:

right now I'm looking at the 1850

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sphery:

!url tuners

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MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[00:24:01]

sphery:

LTHorn: ^^^

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LTHorn:

thank you

[00:34:26]

wagnerrp:

LTHorn: the only two devices hauppauge makes that record 720p and 1080i are the HDPVR and Colossus

[00:35:19]

wagnerrp:

note that capture, and digital tuning, are completely different

[00:35:33]

LTHorn:

also.. would I need a graphics card or could I do an i3 or i5 sandybridge? I (hd video)

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[00:37:23]

wagnerrp:

sandybridge graphics should work, but nvidia are preferred

[00:38:03]

LTHorn:

so wait.. with the 2250 I wouldn't be able to record hdtv?

[00:38:36]

wagnerrp:

you will be ale to record digital

[00:38:49]

wagnerrp:

all the tuner card sees is a data stream

[00:38:58]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt know and doesnt care what the resolution is

[00:39:02]

** sphery loves his HVR-2250 **

[00:39:19]

sphery:

records wonderful digital TV, some of which is in high definition

[00:39:35]

sphery:

(depending on what's broadcast :)

[00:41:19]

LTHorn:

so then why say that the hdpvr and colossus are the only things that record hd?

[00:41:42]

sphery:

because the others simply tune digital channels, and deliver the data in the stream they contain

[00:41:45]

wagnerrp:

because they actually record raw HD video

[00:41:53]

sphery:

if that data happens to be HDTV data, then you've "recorded" HDTV

[00:41:56]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to digital tuners, which capture a pre-compressed data stream

[00:42:05]

LTHorn:

ah vs encoded and compressed

[00:42:06]

sphery:

but you get no choice... you get whatever the station broadcasts

[00:43:27]

LTHorn:

so for a mythtv setup and hd id have to get the 2250

[00:44:08]

wagnerrp:

for digital television, a -2250 is a good card

[00:44:23]

wagnerrp:

it is also a good choice for standard definition analog cable

[00:44:30]

** sphery loves his HVR-2250 **

[00:44:57]

** wagnerrp wonders if he can get his backend compiled from scratch in 15 minutes **

[00:45:02]

sphery:

yep, it's basically the cost of 2x HVR-1250, but you get 2 free SDTV analog hardware encoders

[00:45:26]

sphery:

and it's only one PCIe slot (versus 2 for the 2x HVR-1250)

[00:46:00]

LTHorn:

excellent

[00:46:14]

wagnerrp:

well a bit more than twice

[00:46:26]

wagnerrp:

the -1250 is usually $45-$50

[00:46:49]

LTHorn:

I was thinking of running the backend from apreexsisting media server.. then just building A small. box by the tv

[00:47:04]

LTHorn:

for the frontend

[00:47:43]

wagnerrp:

what kind of processor in this existing media server?

[00:48:44]

LTHorn:

2.2dc athalon

[00:48:52]

LTHorn:

2 gig ram

[00:49:22]

wagnerrp:

should be decent enough

[00:49:46]

wagnerrp:

AM2 or 939?

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LTHorn:

939

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LTHorn:

no am2

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LTHorn:

ooh. I it'd also be hosting a minecraft server... id probably have to upgrade to something better

[00:54:30]

wagnerrp:

wouldnt know anything about that

[00:54:39]

wagnerrp:

other than i hear it eats gobs of memory

[00:54:47]

wagnerrp:

that was the reason for my question

[00:54:51]

LTHorn:

for breakfast yeah

[00:55:02]

wagnerrp:

if it were AM2, would be worth adding some extra DDR2

[00:55:18]

wagnerrp:

but DDR for that older 939... you're probably better off just upgrading the whole thing

[00:55:49]

LTHorn:

If I need to update the processor I'll have to get new ram too

[00:55:56]

wagnerrp:

2GB would be plenty for mythtv, and more than plenty for a dedicated backend

[00:56:09]

wagnerrp:

but more memory means more memory cache, which is never a bad thing

[00:56:19]

wagnerrp:

s/memory cache/disk cache/

[00:57:41]

LTHorn:

also for a sdtv episode commercials removed what file size can I expect?

[00:57:56]

wagnerrp:

analog or digital?

[00:58:25]

LTHorn:

uh... I have digital

[00:58:45]

LTHorn:

It's comcast? lol

[00:59:05]

wagnerrp:

well youve got two analog inputs on that 2250 for recording analog output from a cable box

[00:59:11]

wagnerrp:

note that that card only does unencrypted digital cable

[00:59:13]

LTHorn:

I have the little box thing that I have to have hooked up to the tv

[00:59:17]

wagnerrp:

it will not work for encrypted channels

[00:59:29]

wagnerrp:

the little minibox outputs analog video

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LTHorn:

how many channels is that?

[00:59:58]

LTHorn:

I then analog

[01:00:48]

wagnerrp:

if you intend to use those mini-boxes, then you do NOT want a 2250

[01:00:59]

LTHorn:

If most channels are encrypted, and then what's the point of building a htpc?

[01:01:10]

wagnerrp:

you want -1600s, or old -150s

[01:01:32]

LTHorn:

what would be an ideal setup? I

[01:01:37]

wagnerrp:

since those miniboxes output modulated video, and you only have the one RF input on the -2250

[01:01:57]

LTHorn:

I'll be having to change aRound my cable soon

[01:02:03]

wagnerrp:

the -2250 would be better suited for recording baseband analog (svideo), for which you would need proper cable boxes

[01:02:19]

wagnerrp:

or, since youre using comcast, you can get a cablecard tuner, hdhomerun prime or DCR-2650

[01:02:43]

LTHorn:

which is a more expensive cable tv subscription correct?

[01:03:21]

wagnerrp:

probably

[01:03:32]

wagnerrp:

if you dont already have any cable boxes

[01:04:59]

LTHorn:

I don't.. I've always had the cheapest tv subscription

[01:05:17]

wagnerrp:

no, the cheapest is basic cable, which is nothing more than a replacement for an antenna

[01:05:41]

LTHorn:

I'm like 10 bucks a month

[01:06:07]

LTHorn:

abc fox nbc Mexico qvc and God are all I get

[01:06:31]

wagnerrp:

then why not drop it entirely and put up an antenna?

[01:07:34]

wagnerrp:

unless you actually want the shopping and religious channels the cable company gets for free and uses as filler

[01:07:47]

sphery:

and OTA is even cheaper (and no subscription required :)

[01:08:09]

LTHorn:

I'm going to be changing around my cable subscription

[01:08:39]

LTHorn:

to get more channels

[01:09:16]

wagnerrp:

well if you actually intend to use cable, you should get a level of service that allows cablecards

[01:09:30]

wagnerrp:

along with a cablecard tuner, and a $2-$4/mo cablecard rental

[01:09:45]

wagnerrp:

(as opposed to 2–3 $10/mo cable box rentals)

[01:10:20]

wagnerrp:

sphery: didnt quite make it, missed first few seconds of chuck

[01:12:08]

LTHorn:

OK assuming I have that.. then a 2250 would be appropriate ?

[01:12:25]

wagnerrp:

no, the 2250 is not a cablecard tuner

[01:12:35]

wagnerrp:

just a standard unencrypted digital tuner

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LTHorn:

ie?

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wagnerrp:

?

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sphery:

wagnerrp: ah, now I see the reasoning behind your 15min

[01:14:59]

sphery:

not bad if you only missed a few seconds--you /could/ even catch that on Hulu (i.e. it's short enough that it wouldn't be too painful)

[01:15:39]

wagnerrp:

or i could just ignore it

[01:16:01]

wagnerrp:

chances are nothing significant i couldnt gleen from the rest of the episode

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LTHorn:

example of a standard unencrypted digital tuner

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wagnerrp:

a HVR-2250

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wagnerrp:

a -2250, or other digital tuner, would be appropriate if you were recording from an antenna or unencrypted cable

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LTHorn:

.. that's what I said a minute ago and use said no

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wagnerrp:

a -2650 or Prime would be appropriate for use with a cable lineup where most content is encrypted, but marked copy freely

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LTHorn:

marked copy freely?

[01:20:26]

wagnerrp:

cable companies use encryption as a conditional access system

[01:20:41]

wagnerrp:

devices with cablecards are capable of decrypting this content

[01:21:14]

wagnerrp:

however the content can be flagged as copy protected, in which case a cablecard tuner will only release the content if the application is authorized

[01:21:39]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is not authorized as something that will uphold DRM, so it only gets access to the copy-freely content

[01:22:06]

LTHorn:

how common is that?

[01:23:08]

wagnerrp:

on comcast, everything but your local broadcast channels will be encrypted, and everything but the premium (hbo, showtime, on-demand) channels will be copy-freely

[01:24:12]

LTHorn:

that's good then.. how do people get hbo shows on the web for download?

[01:24:30]

wagnerrp:

no idea

[01:24:44]

wagnerrp:

could be analog capture off a cable box like mythtv users need to do

[01:24:49]

wagnerrp:

could be hacked satellite receivers

[01:25:02]

wagnerrp:

could be someone at those respective organizations

[01:26:57]

LTHorn:

If it's encrypted how will mythtv be able to record properly?

[01:27:20]

wagnerrp:

the cablecard tuner decrypts it for you, and sends an unencrypted stream to mythtv

[01:28:50]

LTHorn:

the tuner box with card or the card in the htpc?

[01:29:46]

wagnerrp:

copy freely content can be recorded directly, using an internal card like a Ceton InfiniTV, or external device like Hauppauge DCR-2650 or HDHomeRun Prime

[01:29:56]

wagnerrp:

they decrypt the content, and send a digital stream straight to mythtv

[01:30:41]

wagnerrp:

copy protected content must be recorded in analog, decrypted and decoded by a cable box, and then captured in SD with an MPEG encoder like a HVR-2250, or HD H264 encoder like a HDPVR

[01:33:06]

LTHorn:

OK.. so then I have no idea what I should get because I don't know what kind of service I'll have from comcast

[01:37:48]

LTHorn:

I think I went full circle lol

[01:39:05]

JEDIDIAH__:

In the worst case you get hauppauge HDPVR and you can record anything. requires a cable box though and having your PC manipulate it with an IR blaster.

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LTHorn:

worst case I buy computer parts that don't work with the cable subscription I end up with

[01:42:45]

wagnerrp:

basically, the problem with those mini-boxes is that they dont do baseband video, only modulated

[01:43:07]

wagnerrp:

and the -2250 only has the one input run through an internal splitter for modulated video

[01:43:23]

wagnerrp:

so if you try to record analog off them, you will only be able to use one of the tuners

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wagnerrp:

while if you record off a proper cable box with baseband outputs, you can use both encoders

[01:44:55]

wagnerrp:

on the other hand, a HVR-1600 has a modulated input dedicated to the analog tuner, as do the older PVR-150 and PVR-500

[01:45:20]

LTHorn:

but I won't end up using that mini box if I change my subscription

[01:45:28]

wagnerrp:

you cant buy them any longer, but for SD analog from a mini-box, those will be the cheapest option

[01:45:35]

LTHorn:

I'll have an hd reveiver

[01:45:59]

wagnerrp:

if you get a subscription that is allowed an HD receiver, you can get a cablecard instead

[01:46:18]

LTHorn:

know of any tv service that let's you pick channels and have a custom subscription?

[01:47:35]

LTHorn:

like the 2650 or the ceton?

[01:47:57]

iamlindoro:

Or better still, the HDHomerun Prime

[01:47:58]

wagnerrp:

those are tuners, not 'tv services'

[01:48:14]

wagnerrp:

the 2650 and Prime are effectively the same device

[01:48:34]

wagnerrp:

just one has a network port soldered on, the other has a usb port soldered on and a deactivated tuner

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iamlindoro:

And cannot be upgraded in linux

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iamlindoro:

and whose firmware lags way behind

[01:50:01]

LTHorn:

what if I get direct tv?

[01:50:15]

iamlindoro:

Then you'll need to purchase an analog capture device like the HD-PVR

[01:50:49]

JEDIDIAH__:

Yup.

[01:51:04]

JEDIDIAH__:

HD-PVR for DirecTV and Dish as they don't use cablecard.

[01:51:19]

LTHorn:

so at that point I can't have an all inclusive htpc

[01:52:04]

wagnerrp:

sure you can, it just becomes more expensive

[01:52:13]

wagnerrp:

as you need multiple different devices to capture from different services

[01:52:23]

wagnerrp:

mythtv can handle as many tuners as you want to throw at it

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sphery:

it's just not "all-enclosed" :)

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LTHorn:

which devices?

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LTHorn:

all enclosed is what I'm trying to accomplish

[01:54:29]

wagnerrp:

by 'enclosed', he means 'fitting in one PC case'

[01:54:43]

wagnerrp:

which technically thats not true

[01:55:03]

wagnerrp:

provided you get a big enough PC case, you could potentially stuff multiple cable/satellite boxes and external capture devices inside

[01:55:16]

LTHorn:

I want everything in one case

[01:55:35]

JEDIDIAH__:

If you want a single box that looks small and pretty than a ready made appliance probably makes more sense.

[01:55:47]

sphery:

not much you can do with directv or dish--you have to use their receivers, regardless

[01:55:48]

wagnerrp:

if you are using a separate backend, why does it matter?

[01:56:05]

wagnerrp:

put that separate backend in a closet, or basement, or somewhere out of sight where looking pretty doesnt matter

[01:56:09]

LTHorn:

I was going to get the lianli pc-c37b

[01:56:10]

JEDIDIAH__:

mythtv shines when you are talking about more than just a single box or single TV.

[01:56:33]

sphery:

and, yeah, JEDIDIAH__ is right... a directv or dish DVR is a nice easy way to get a small, all-in-one-case dvr for directv/dish

[01:56:40]

LTHorn:

I'd have two tvs

[01:57:08]

sphery:

ttbomk, directv has a networked-dvr box

[01:57:11]

JEDIDIAH__:

DTV supports multi-room with their newer devices.

[01:57:13]

LTHorn:

one that would be next to the backend box the other next to the fronted box

[01:57:19]

sphery:

I see the annoying commercial for it all the time when I'm getting something from the kitchen

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LTHorn:

Yeah but then you have to use their crap

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JEDIDIAH__:

If you are getting a new service, you could always try that out. As a new subscriber, you will probably get it for free or cheap.

[01:58:02]

sphery:

where there's a guy in his kitchen getting a sandwich and a couple robots fighting and destroying his oven and such, then he pauses it and walks to the front room to eat his sandwich and resumes it and they crash through the wall into the front room

[01:58:08]

JEDIDIAH__:

Unless you've used it , you don't really know well enough to complain.

[01:59:05]

LTHorn:

that's not true

[01:59:38]

JEDIDIAH__:

You see a lot of conflicting reports about vendor gear. It's hard to really know what's what without having firsthand knowledge.

[01:59:40]

LTHorn:

I can complain that I'm forced into a corner by using their stuff

[02:00:34]

JEDIDIAH__:

All you have to do is get over the idea of the solution looking pretty. Then it's very straightforward to avoid using their stuff.

[02:01:16]

JEDIDIAH__:

mini pc + hdpvr + DTV receiver

[02:01:45]

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wagnerrp:

or... as mentioned, just put the backend and all the ugly hardware somewhere out of sight

[02:03:12]

JEDIDIAH__:

that's certainly an option if a bit unwieldy.

[02:03:27]

JEDIDIAH__:

tried that myself and opted for a more distributed setup.

[02:03:47]

LTHorn:

is the hdpvr mythbuntu compatible?

[02:04:00]

wagnerrp:

HDPVR, yes... Colossus, no

[02:04:17]

wagnerrp:

neither are the avermedia and blackmagic capture devices

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LTHorn:

will the colossus ever be?

[02:05:42]

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[02:05:44]

wagnerrp:

likely not

[02:05:51]

** [R] pulls out his crystal ball **

[02:06:01]

wagnerrp:

hauppauge's hands are tied behind NDAs even if they wanted to support it

[02:06:22]

wagnerrp:

and reverse engineering drivers for the PCIe Colossus would be considerably more difficult than for the USB HDPVR

[02:06:37]

LTHorn:

actually it would be in a win 2008 server

[02:06:56]

wagnerrp:

well now im going to stop you right there

[02:07:00]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is designed for linux

[02:07:12]

wagnerrp:

other POSIX systems like freebsd and OSX can be used in a pinch

[02:07:23]

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wagnerrp:

but right now, only the frontend is supported in windows

[02:07:34]

JEDIDIAH__:

myth doesn't support the windows capture card libs

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LTHorn:

OK that blows. not that I have to use linux, and but because there isn't an internal card that linux recognizes

[02:09:18]

wagnerrp:

the HDPVR can be made internal, providing a sufficiently large box

[02:09:34]

[R]:

ROFL

[02:10:08]

wagnerrp:

oh, you laugh...

[02:10:21]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mounting_the_HD-PVR_Internally

[02:10:22]

LTHorn:

you mean shove the whole box in there or take out the hdpvr internals and nest it inside?

[02:11:00]

wagnerrp:

using an internal USB header, and 5VDC from a molex plug

[02:11:07]

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_Anomaly:

WinBlows..... there are people that still use it?

[02:12:17]

_Anomaly:

0.o

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LTHorn:

OK that's something I can easily handle

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LTHorn:

so if I mount it internally do Iuse the pc's hdmi out for the t?

[02:13:29]

LTHorn:

tv?

[02:13:50]

JEDIDIAH__:

display and recording have nothing to do with each other.

[02:13:51]

wagnerrp:

what else would you use?

[02:14:29]

LTHorn:

dumb question then

[02:14:37]

wagnerrp:

its either that, or dvi, or vga, or some older cards have component and svideo outputs

[02:14:44]

JEDIDIAH__:

although it's handy to have the component out on the hdpvr go to your TV so you can see what's going on with it.

[02:15:05]

wagnerrp:

if you were thinking of using the hdpvr as an output, it doesnt have outputs

[02:15:09]

wagnerrp:

it has input, and passthrough

[02:15:29]

wagnerrp:

think of it like an internal splitter, run to the outputs, and the capture hardware

[02:16:22]

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[02:16:27]

LTHorn:

the hd tuner box (satellite only), would be connected to the pvr by component I take it

[02:16:43]

wagnerrp:

ideally, svideo and composite dont do HD

[02:17:14]

wagnerrp:

and HDMI would be encrypted and not an option

[02:17:21]

wagnerrp:

(ain't DRM fun?)

[02:17:40]

[R]:

its a hoot

[02:17:53]

LTHorn:

drm is fundamentally flawed

[02:18:00]

LTHorn:

but that's another story

[02:18:52]

LTHorn:

hdpvr doesn't have hdmi in anyway

[02:19:25]

wagnerrp:

no, but some of the other similar devices do

[02:21:56]

LTHorn:

alright.. from the top then. If I have direct tv it will go hd receiver> hdpvr (inside of backend computer)> NETWORK> fronted htpc > tv

[02:22:36]

LTHorn:

frontend *

[02:22:42]

skd5aner:

no network

[02:22:52]

skd5aner:

or, uh...

[02:22:54]

skd5aner:

yes, network

[02:22:56]

wagnerrp:

yes network

[02:23:13]

skd5aner:

sorry, was thinking you meant the hdpvr would send it's signal over the network

[02:23:23]

skd5aner:

(like an hdhr would)

[02:23:35]

skd5aner:

which, obviously, it wouldn't

[02:23:36]

wagnerrp:

but you could have added ... htpvr > usb > mythbackend > hard drive > mythbackend > network

[02:23:40]

skd5aner:

anyway, carry on

[02:24:02]

LTHorn:

OK then if I stick with comcast it would be what?

[02:24:12]

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[02:24:40]

wagnerrp:

cable > cablecard tuner > network (or virtual network) > mythbackend > hard drive > mythbackend > network > mythfrontend > video card > tv

[02:24:42]

skd5aner:

comcast? you could try the hdhr-prime and use cable card – that's the best

[02:25:40]

wagnerrp:

the dcr-2650 and infinitv still technically connect over the network

[02:25:50]

wagnerrp:

even though they are attached by usb and pcie

[02:25:50]

skd5aner:

and, btw... your backend and frontend can be on the same device

[02:26:12]

wagnerrp:

and even on the same device, its still accessed over the network (loopback)

[02:26:15]

skd5aner:

not that I've read the backlog, so you might have already said why you would intend to seperate them

[02:26:35]

LTHorn:

I know they cN, and but with the equipment I already have it makes sense to separate

[02:26:36]

skd5aner:

just that you're not forced to physicall have a backend and an frontend seperately (although, I do)

[02:29:32]

LTHorn:

so which option is best? I prime or 2650

[02:30:03]

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[02:30:30]

wagnerrp:

the -2650 is half the cost, but you lose some of the flexibility of a network attached tuner, and you have two tuners instead of three

[02:31:11]

skd5aner:

always ceton too (you get 4 tuners)

[02:31:13]

iamlindoro:

and can't upgrade the firmware in linux

[02:31:21]

iamlindoro:

and the firmware from Hauppauge lags way behind

[02:31:22]

iamlindoro:

again

[02:31:36]

LTHorn:

so sticking with comcast will be more expensive in terms of equipment

[02:31:43]

skd5aner:

http://www.amazon.com/Ceton-InfiniTV-Digital- . . . p/B003B4VLJQ

[02:32:22]

wagnerrp:

LTHorn: no, one HDPVR is $150-$200, and can capture one channel

[02:32:25]

LTHorn:

also with what I mentioned before about direct tv how many channels can record at the same time

[02:32:36]

wagnerrp:

and requires a cable/satellite box rental

[02:32:41]

iamlindoro:

One per HD-PVR and sat box rental

[02:32:56]

wagnerrp:

one -2650 is $125-$150 and will capture two channels, with a cheaper cablecard rental

[02:33:25]

wagnerrp:

$200-$250 for the three channel Prime, $250-$350 for the four channel InfiniTV

[02:33:31]

skd5aner:

sat is a 1:1 (as iamlindoro mentioned)

[02:33:33]

wagnerrp:

each just requires the one cablecard rental

[02:34:04]

iamlindoro:

Not to mention no generational loss

[02:34:05]

wagnerrp:

so depending on what you get, cablecard is significantly cheaper in both the short and long term per simultaneous recording

[02:34:24]

wagnerrp:

but... relies on your content being marked 'copy freely'

[02:34:41]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: btw, you'll appreciate this... I got my (what seems to be quarterly) price increase notification for TWC... everything went up 4–10%, except 1 thing... CableCard rental. Went from $2.50/mo to $2.00/mo

[02:35:06]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: too bad it's not even worth that for me :/

[02:36:00]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: heh

[02:36:05]

iamlindoro:

bummer

[02:36:29]

sphery:

yeah, we've already made future generations lose enough having to pay our debts, so no need for further generational losses

[02:37:11]

LTHorn:

so I'd be able to record anything with sat comcast would have the rey freely restrictions

[02:38:21]

wagnerrp:

with satellite, you need to do analog capture off a satellite receiver

[02:38:30]

wagnerrp:

you could do exactly the same thing with a cable box and comcast

[02:39:06]

LTHorn:

It just wouldn't be hd

[02:39:06]

skd5aner:

LTHorn: most people with Comcast have a good chance of being able to record the majority of their channels, there are a few local areas that seem to have bad luck, but those seem less than the ones who do

[02:39:26]

skd5aner:

digital != HD

[02:39:31]

skd5aner:

analog != SD

[02:39:34]

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[02:39:48]

LTHorn:

kk

[02:39:56]

skd5aner:

If you use the component output on your cable or sat STB, it can output analog HD signals

[02:39:58]

wagnerrp:

you can record HD using an HDPVR and a cable box with comcast, in exactly the same manner as you would satellite

[02:40:21]

LTHorn:

so I'm hearing cost wise stick with comcast

[02:40:35]

wagnerrp:

usability wise, stick with comcast

[02:41:11]

LTHorn:

do I buy my own card tunerbox or rent one from comcast?

[02:41:45]

skd5aner:

you buy the "box" (the prime, ceton, etc) and rent the "card" (cablecard)

[02:42:06]

wagnerrp:

unless youre doing analog capture for the premium channels

[02:42:24]

wagnerrp:

in which case you buy the "box" (HDPVR) and rent another (cable) "box"

[02:42:35]

skd5aner:

then you just rent a different kind of "box" – the STB (set top box)

[02:42:51]

skd5aner:

heh – fun times

[02:43:13]

skd5aner:

with that, I think I'm going to finally try and have a Friday night

[02:43:15]

skd5aner:

later

[02:43:51]

LTHorn:

ty

[02:47:22]

LTHorn:

so prime and the infinitv for comcast

[02:47:46]

LTHorn:

for 3 recording channels

[02:48:19]

LTHorn:

hdpvr and tuner for direct tv, and but only one channel at a time

[02:48:29]

wagnerrp:

prime for 3, infinitv for 4

[02:48:49]

wagnerrp:

although there is likely no need to get both comcast AND directtv subscriptions

[02:51:45]

LTHorn:

I wouldn't need both the prime and the infinitv for comcast?

[02:52:14]

wagnerrp:

the -2650, prime, and infinitv tuners are all independent cablecard tuners

[02:52:23]

wagnerrp:

you can have one, you can have multiple

[02:52:36]

wagnerrp:

but they have nothing to do with each other

[02:56:54]

LTHorn:

ooh so if I get the infinitv and have comcast and rent a card I just put the card in the infinitv?

[02:58:35]

wagnerrp:

a cablecard is just a PCMCIA shaped device that slots into a cablecard-compatible device

[02:58:47]

wagnerrp:

any digital cable box will have one stored away inside

[03:00:56]

wagnerrp:

wow... i love it in tv shows kill characters that should be killed

[03:01:44]

iamlindoro:

Just watch Game of Thrones, where they'll kill anyone, anywhere, no matter how much you love them

[03:02:15]

iamlindoro:

Love them, hate them, F you, they're dead

[03:02:25]

iamlindoro:

No coming back, no jedi ghost, dead

[03:02:27]

wagnerrp:

s/in/when/

[03:02:35]

LTHorn:

that's happening with the books are

[03:03:03]

** iamlindoro has read all the books **

[03:03:11]

iamlindoro:

TV viewers have no idea the depression they're in for yet

[03:03:23]

LTHorn:

indeed

[03:03:53]

LTHorn:

infinitv works with mythbuntu?

[03:04:10]

** wagnerrp enjoys the dead friend re-appearing because of a kept skull personally **

[03:04:14]

iamlindoro:

Ceton only works with Master-- ie, the dev version which will be the future .25

[03:04:33]

iamlindoro:

Prime or Hauppauge will work with the current release

[03:04:46]

iamlindoro:

s/only works/only works in a supported fashion/

[03:05:51]

wagnerrp:

grimm two nights in a row? thats usually a sign of impending cancellation

[03:07:47]

iamlindoro:

I show episodes on 12/16 and 12/23 too

[03:08:01]

iamlindoro:

(with --dd-grab-all)

[03:17:39]

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[03:18:33]

LTHorn:

awesome

[03:19:07]

sphery:

grimm's looking good by the numbers (graded on a curve for NBC): http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/12/06/n . . . ewal/112697/

[03:19:08]

LTHorn:

thank you both very much.. now I know what direction I need to go

[03:21:28]

_sh0x_:

getting *** stack smashing detected *** in frontend log after compiling .24/fixes branch, log: http://pastebin.com/ENAW2bNj

[03:21:43]

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[03:21:51]

_sh0x_:

any ideas how to resolve?

[03:22:27]

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[03:23:07]

sphery:

_sh0x_: sounds like it's compiled incorrectly... what's your configure line like?

[03:23:24]

sphery:

it /should/ be: ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --enable-proc-opt

[03:23:27]

_sh0x_:

i used: ./configure --disable-audio-oss --disable-audio-jack --disable-audio-pulseoutput --disable-joystick-menu --disable-iptv --disable-firewire --disable-v4l --disable-ivtv --disable-hdpvr --disable-dvb --enable-vdpau

[03:24:03]

sphery:

well, I don't know that's the specific problem, but I can tell you that /many/ of those options will break MythTV

[03:24:19]

sphery:

i.e. --disable-audio-oss and --disable-v4l completely break it

[03:24:23]

sphery:

others shouldn't be used

[03:24:33]

sphery:

try again with /just/: ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --enable-proc-opt

[03:24:55]

_sh0x_:

ok i'll try that now

[03:27:48]

LTHorn:

eta for a.25 release?

[03:35:07]

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_sh0x_:

sphery: recompiling worked, thanks!

[06:09:57]

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sphery:

_sh0x_: glad to hear... enjoy

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[09:41:04]

** Beirdo slaps himself **

[09:41:09]

Beirdo:

now that was stupid

[09:41:30]

Beirdo:

go to all the trouble to massage timestamps... then insert the old data instead of the new.

[09:41:33]

Beirdo:

eeediot

[09:42:19]

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[09:48:03]

Beirdo:

thank goodness I made a 2min recording for faster testing

[09:55:26]

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[09:59:39]

lapion:

I have a problem, when I playback mythtv-recordings on a system with an ati-card I get a sort of a pbp-horizonatlly-split screen with in the upper and the lower part the same video.

[10:01:11]

wagnerrp:

buy an nvidia card

[10:01:25]

wagnerrp:

in the mean time, change your playback profile to not use the bob deint filter

[10:10:02]

Beirdo:

BAH

[10:10:07]

Beirdo:

WTF?

[10:10:35]

Beirdo:

my video frames are off by 0.000012s from being properly frame aligned?

[10:10:44]

Beirdo:

what the heck did I mess up now?

[10:11:49]

Beirdo:

Findings: Frame: 35, Offset: 0.033355, Duration: 0.000012 Video scene change: 1

[10:11:57]

Beirdo:

ummm, no

[10:12:19]

Beirdo:

that really should be frame 36, offset 0, duration 0.033367

[10:13:02]

Beirdo:

ugh, and it's accumulating

[10:13:12]

Beirdo:

how very... annoying

[10:15:37]

lapion:

thanks wagnerrp

[10:15:42]

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[10:16:40]

wagnerrp:

im watching an... interesting tv episode

[10:16:57]

wagnerrp:

its the stereotypical failing series clip show

[10:17:10]

wagnerrp:

yet... its clips that never actually happened

[10:36:25]

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[10:43:25]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: which show is this?

[10:43:34]

wagnerrp:

community

[10:53:06]

wagnerrp:

and in other news, Lincoln is advertising their cars using a song about 70s porn

[10:53:13]

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[10:53:28]

** wagnerrp finds it amusing the little things you catch by not skipping through the ads **

[10:55:40]

Beirdo:

I bloody hate qmake

[10:56:01]

Beirdo:

why can't I have an app... with a subdir?

[10:56:10]

Beirdo:

stupid piece of crap

[10:57:30]

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[11:03:36]

Beirdo:

I want automake

[11:03:39]

Beirdo:

this crap sucks

[11:05:03]

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[11:21:48]

Beirdo:

I think I've had enough fun for one day

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[14:17:12]

RCX_Slinger:

I'm using an external browser, and notice mythnews and "internet videos" (searching on youtube and similar) launches it without blocking lirc input to mythfrontend (so when the browser quits all lirc inputs get repeated in mythfrontend). This started after an update some year(s) ago. Is it possible to fix by editing the theme (I noticed the "exec" command), or do I have to change and recompile the source of mythfrontend to

[14:17:51]

RCX_Slinger:

btw: launching an external program from mythvideo does not cause this problem (properly discards all lirc inputs).

[14:27:48]

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dekarl:

RCX_Slinger: does the external browser block until you're done or does it spawn a new instance and return to the calling process immediately

[14:39:07]

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[14:44:11]

RCX_Slinger:

It blocks until it is closed.

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RCX_Slinger:

(the lirc inputs are only performed by mythfrontend _after_ I have closed the browser)

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Unguided:

hello all! I have 2 newb questions. 1. Can anyone tell me where to get the mythbuntu installation manual i have seen on some of the youtube videos & 2. can anyone tell me if the logitech mini controller will work with mythtv. Thanks so much for your help in advance.

[15:48:02]

stichnot:

How would I modify apache's mythweb.conf so that an externally visible password-protected url like http://my.external.ip/backend/samples/livestream_rec.qsp is proxied to http://my.internal.ip:6544/samples/livestream_rec.qsp ?

[15:49:46]

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Unguided:

never mind. i found my answer. just didnt look far enough.

[15:59:49]

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[17:13:28]

sphery:

dekarl: Thanks for taking up the rest of the discussion on "[mythtv] Why are themes downloaded to /etc/mythtv?" I could tell I wasn't going to be able to convince anyone, and you made the argument much better than I could (even quoting sources of reason :).

[17:14:30]

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[17:16:16]

dekarl:

sphery: I had to do some good after being so harsh to that "safe 5 mb" user ;)

[17:17:25]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand what a 'linux service' is

[17:17:42]

wagnerrp:

a user is a user is a user

[17:18:02]

wagnerrp:

it _must_ have a home directory defined, even if it is non-existent

[17:18:17]

sphery:

it seems a service is a program run as non root with no home directory

[17:18:17]

wagnerrp:

is it really that hard to point it at an existent directory instead?

[17:18:20]

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[17:18:22]

sphery:

strangely, I have none on my system

[17:18:55]

wagnerrp:

i have tons on my systems

[17:19:13]

sphery:

all mine have home directories, though--even if they are non-existent

[17:19:21]

wagnerrp:

and again, making it not a "service" is as simple as changing that one single line in my /etc/passwd to point it at a real directory

[17:20:46]

sphery:

anyway, I'm glad that since they're already using (hard-coded) directory lists for built-in storage groups, that Captain_Murdoch is planning to just allow users to override the directory lists rather than using another environment variable

[17:21:18]

sphery:

granted, that does mean that the packager will have to pre-configure the storage groups to do it the way he seems to want :)

[17:21:46]

sphery:

but it's the right way to do it rather than yet-another-different-way of specifying directory information

[17:22:29]

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[17:28:07]

FabriceMG:

In livetv, the format of the image is not detected correctly, you must force with the menu

[17:28:16]

FabriceMG:

4/3, 16/9 .......

[17:30:03]

FabriceMG:

strange, not with recordings

[17:30:10]

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[17:33:45]

sphery:

FabriceMG: you mean the auto-zoom doesn't work in Live TV?

[17:34:11]

sphery:

if so, you're probably using a playback profile for Live TV that doesn't allow it to work

[17:40:26]

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[17:48:03]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, one of the reasons I see for overriding the Themes SG is to allow multiple users or multiple seats on the same system to share a common Theme dir.

[17:48:34]

sphery:

yeah, makes sense

[17:48:53]

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[17:49:21]

Captain_Murdoch:

and nothing prevents a packager from pointing the Themes SG at /usr/local/share/mythtv/themes

[17:49:23]

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[17:49:38]

sphery:

were you planning to open up temp SG, too? (and/or ChannelIcons or Streaming?)

[17:49:47]

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[17:50:09]

Captain_Murdoch:

any of those builtins can be overridden, it's just a matter of whether they are honored in the code.

[17:50:20]

sphery:

also, these won't get prominent "Create a Themes Storage Group" buttons in the editor, right?

[17:50:31]

Captain_Murdoch:

I think I created the Themes SG when I was looking at remote themes, because I didn't honor it in the theme chooser.

[17:51:07]

Captain_Murdoch:

no, wasn't planning on it, but I'm not opposed to it. wouldn't do it in mythtv-setup, but might consider it in the web setup.

[17:51:29]

sphery:

yeah, I'd think they don't need the buttons

[17:51:43]

sphery:

more of a "just works for 99%, but those 1% who want to change it can" approach

[17:52:21]

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[17:52:31]

sphery:

anyway, thanks for looking into it

[17:53:17]

sphery:

I didn't want another env variable to provide some functionality that some users would want as permanent config--I like config being in the configuration settings in the database

[17:53:19]

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[17:53:20]

Captain_Murdoch:

and when I added the builtin, I thought I had it set to allow them to be overridden, but when troubleshooting the streaming code, I found that it wasn't honoring my override.

[17:53:34]

sphery:

ah, I see

[17:54:22]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, I agree. I also agree on the home dirs and permissions. I just can see valid reasons for sharing the Theme dir so I figured that could be added. and since I created it, I should honor it. :)

[17:54:41]

sphery:

yeah

[17:55:07]

Captain_Murdoch:

anyway, I might look into it tonight, it's a simple patch. I have the necessary files open on my screen to remind me. :)

[17:55:10]

** Captain_Murdoch is afk now. **

[17:55:17]

sphery:

the packager will likely find that he still has an issue with ~/.mythtv/{themecache,remotecache,thumbcache,<pluginsdirs>} and more

[17:55:28]

sphery:

unless he sets up a user-writable directory...

[17:55:38]

sphery:

later

[17:58:15]

FabriceMG:

sphery, till thursday, it's work, update friday, don't work

[17:58:48]

FabriceMG:

i't not zoom, but ratio , 4/3, 16/9 .... in livetv

[18:00:38]

FabriceMG:

no modification on frontend and backend between

[18:02:42]

FabriceMG:

the format of the image is not detected correctly, always in 4/3 for the real image is 16/9

[18:03:29]

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[18:04:52]

FabriceMG:

after test , same probleme on other frontend

[18:04:55]

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[18:12:21]

FabriceMG:

hoho, bad release, you watch the livetv, you press record key, you exit of livetv, the backend stop to record !!!!!!

[18:18:12]

RCX_Slinger:

I'm using an external browser, launched from mythnews (and "internet videos" – searching on youtube and similar). When the browser quits all lirc inputs get repeated in mythfrontend. This started after an update some year(s) ago. Is it possible to fix by editing the theme (I noticed the "exec" command), or do I have to change and recompile the source of mythfrontend to fix it?

[18:18:12]

RCX_Slinger:

Also, the browser script does block until the browser stops (the input gets executed after I quit the browser). And I don't think this occurs with external video players (mythvideo), although I haven't checked lately.

[18:19:04]

FabriceMG:

hummm, the backend create 2 files for the same recordings, 1 before press rec key , 1 after press rec key

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RCX_Slinger:

How

[20:55:12]

RCX_Slinger:

(sorry, accidentally pressed enter)

[20:56:16]

RCX_Slinger:

Is there some way of making mythnews (and others) launch a web browser with the "exec" command, so that lirc input is discarded when the browser exits?

[21:02:44]

RCX_Slinger:

Maybe I should ask on the development channel (#mythtv)?

[21:20:38]

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[21:43:44]

sphery:

RCX_Slinger: The browser app needs to be started properly--with the right arguments to the myth_system() call--to tell mythfrontend to ignore all LIRC events until the browser process terminates. It used to be done properly, but since very few people use external browsers now that MythTV has a nice built-in browser (WebKit-based, just like Chrome and Safari), I'm sure no one has noticed

[21:43:56]

sphery:

RCX_Slinger: are you using 0.24-fixes or unstable/development code?

[21:46:04]

RCX_Slinger:

I'm using 0.24-fixes (on debian testing)

[21:46:28]

sphery:

OK. Just wondering since there's a completely new myth_system() call in unstable.

[21:47:02]

RCX_Slinger:

(the reason I don't use the built-in is that I prefer to launch youtube videos in mplayer, and similar)

[21:48:52]

RCX_Slinger:

I notice (when looking at main.cpp for mythfrontend) that often "GetMythUI()->AddCurrentLocation("playdisc");" is called before "GetMythMainWindow()->HandleMedia(...)". Is there anything related to this?

[21:51:38]

RCX_Slinger:

... and "GetMythUI()->RemoveCurrentLocation();" is called afterwards.

[21:53:25]

RCX_Slinger:

But it all might be fixed in the development version by now...? (it's been more than a year since it last started, so I guess the chance is small, though?).

[21:53:39]

sphery:

those are just changing the location so frontend's network control can report it with query location

[21:54:12]

sphery:

well, the entire myth_system() functionality was rewritten, so it likely works in unstable

[21:57:07]

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[21:59:50]

MrFluffy:

Hi all, I was wondering if anyone has come across a similar issue. I had a box running mythbackend 0.23 with everything fine, quad tbs dvb-s2 capture card for feeds. Ive just migrated it and my five frontends to 0.24, and now after about 20 minutes the sound goes screwy and metallic sounding. Sometimes if I pause or skip, it corrects itself, and I see the following in the log :- RecBase(1:/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0): GetKey

[22:00:04]

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[22:00:24]

MrFluffy:

I havent changed kernel, card drivers or anything, just myth and some dependancies (perl etc)

[22:02:18]

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[22:02:18]

MrFluffy:

They are all gentoo boxes, Library API : 0.24.20101129–1, Network Protocol : 63, kernel 3.1.1-gentoo

[22:05:08]

RCX_Slinger:

sphery: Ok, I'm looking forward to try it when it leaves development. Will that be version 0.25?

[22:11:20]

sphery:

yeah, 0.25 has it

[22:12:02]

sphery:

you may want to ask on the -users list, too (just to get more eyes on it) to see if anyone else is using a combination of MythNews + MythBrowser with external browser and see if they've noticed issues

[22:12:14]

sphery:

s/0.25 has it/will have it/

[22:17:59]

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[22:28:37]

RCX_Slinger:

Thanks! "-users list" = mailing list?

[22:28:52]

sphery:

RCX_Slinger: yeah

[22:33:52]

RCX_Slinger:

Ok. Thanks!

[22:37:41]

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[22:38:18]

RCX_Slinger:

I might be able to ask another question(?): I've noticed mythfrontend doesn't print "using/not using realtime priority" on playback anymore. I have "realtime threads" option enabled, but it doesn't seem to change in priority/niceness when going from not playing to playing (according to htop)... Has the feature been disabled, or is it just a configuration error on my part. Most importantly: should it not alert the user abou

[22:38:35]

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[22:39:36]

sphery:

yeah, I'm pretty sure it was removed because of a) difficulty of configuring the underlying system properly and b) we didn't really need it once certain changes were made to the player

[22:40:52]

RCX_Slinger:

Interesting! So the player doesn't even try to gain higher priority?

[22:40:58]

sphery:

right

[22:41:05]

sphery:

all the code that would have allowed it was removed

[22:41:42]

RCX_Slinger:

(so the menu option is probably removed in the development code?)

[22:41:59]

hipitihop-away is now known as hipitihop

[22:42:05]

RCX_Slinger:

(not important)

[22:43:03]

sphery:

ok, according to http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 46721#446721 , there's still code, but the message was removed because it wasn't right

[22:44:42]

RCX_Slinger:

Ok... So it should still change in priority and/or niceness on proper configuration?

[22:45:31]

[R]:

are you having playback problems?

[22:45:58]

sphery:

I'd assume it still does it

[22:46:05]

sphery:

or doesn't need it

[22:46:21]

sphery:

I don't think I'm doing anything to configure my system to allow it, but playback looks good on my system :)

[22:48:44]

RCX_Slinger:

Well, I've tried enabling it "just in case". I'm using a low-power system, and only experience stuttering when the backend is also busy recording+encoding at the same time, so it's not much of a problem. I'm more concerned with the backend being able to record reliably. ;-) (but since it's in the menu, and I've been able to use it before, I _just had to_ ask)

[22:51:32]

RCX_Slinger:

Bottom line: no, I don't have problems (most of the time), was just driven by my curiosity. (if it got "realtime priority", the priority and/or niceness values should change, right?)

[22:52:56]

wagnerrp:

Captain_Murdoch: i dont see any good reason for allowing the theme cache to be moved

[22:53:26]

wagnerrp:

the themes are all downloaded and shared out by the master backend

[22:53:35]

wagnerrp:

so its not like theyre going to be downloaded multiple times

[22:53:54]

wagnerrp:

and at a couple MB each, its no real issue to have duplicate copies of them sitting around

[22:54:19]

wagnerrp:

for those running extremely lightweight systems like minimyth, theyre not going to have multiple users running mythtv

[22:54:59]

wagnerrp:

and for those who really care about that relatively inconsequential amount of duplicate files, they can just use a shared home/mythconfdir directory

[22:55:06]

wagnerrp:

with group write access to all who might use it

[22:56:14]

wagnerrp:

i vote no additional settings, because it just means all that much more additional were going to have to account for when trying to figure out why someone system isnt working, when it has been screwed up by some packager

[22:58:15]

sphery:

it would really only be allowing users to provide a directory list of their own for the already-existing built-in Themes storage group (which, now, has a single, hard-coded directory location)

[22:58:44]

wagnerrp:

why does it need to be a directory list rather than just one path?

[22:58:53]

sphery:

one path is still a list

[22:58:53]

wagnerrp:

why can that one path not be located in HOME

[22:59:01]

sphery:

yeah

[22:59:04]

sphery:

home works for me

[22:59:22]

sphery:

but if we have to support users changing it, I'm glad it will at least be done through storage groups

[22:59:43]

wagnerrp:

i dont see any scenario where there is any reason to store it somewhere other than HOME, or potentially MYTHCONFDIR if you dont like the 'dirtiness' of the .mythtv directory

[22:59:53]

sphery:

I have a feeling, though, that if mythtv doesn't support it, there will be patches in at least one packager's builds

[23:00:01]

wagnerrp:

plus rewriting HOME can potentially cause problems with other external utilities

[23:00:33]

sphery:

(meaning we'll still have to figure out how the system is misconfigured--but won't even "know" that it's possible to change the value :)

[23:00:39]

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[23:01:01]

sphery:

rewriting home?

[23:01:02]

wagnerrp:

thats fine with me, as it means i can tell people their packager is doing bad things

[23:01:13]

wagnerrp:

'export HOME=/somewhere/other/than/home'

[23:01:18]

sphery:

oh, yeah

[23:01:25]

sphery:

so you mean for people using mythconfdir

[23:01:41]

sphery:

(not for this particular potential change)

[23:01:43]

wagnerrp:

id rather see mythconfdir used than changing HOME

[23:02:12]

wagnerrp:

id rather just set the home in /etc/passwd properly than doing either

[23:02:15]

sphery:

even if he uses mythconfdir, since he's adamant about /etc/mythtv being the only possible location of config.xml and mysql.txt, he won't be happy

[23:02:43]

wagnerrp:

symlink one or the other

[23:02:49]

wagnerrp:

its not that difficult

[23:03:01]

sphery:

the problem for him is that the themes dir (and, I'm sure will be that all the other dirs) that require writable access in MYTHCONFDIR are things that shouldn't be in /etc

[23:03:24]

wagnerrp:

they shouldnt be in /var for that matter either

[23:04:12]

wagnerrp:

right now, mythtv uses the HOME configuration

[23:04:12]

sphery:

oh, but, "The OP was talking about mythbackend running non-root and as a service. I.e. No user home folder and no write access to /etc. All [symlink suggestions are] therefore unsuitable for that task."

[23:04:16]

sphery:

:)

[23:04:23]

wagnerrp:

id like to change that, but i dont know how to do so without being disruptive

[23:04:38]

sphery:

where would you change it to?

[23:05:11]

wagnerrp:

either use mythconfdir so its in /etc/mythtv rather than /etc/mythtv/.mythtv

[23:05:26]

wagnerrp:

or just change the user account to point to the proper location

[23:05:55]

sphery:

I could, when I rip out mysql.txt support, change it so config.xml can exist in /etc/mythtv or $HOME/.mythtv

[23:06:11]

sphery:

but it still doesn't change the fact that we need a writable directory for scratch stuff

[23:06:17]

wagnerrp:

as mentioned, any application started from within mythtv gets the same environment as mythtv

[23:06:56]

wagnerrp:

so if you start mythfrontend both automatically and manually

[23:07:03]

wagnerrp:

you could end up with different HOME paths

[23:07:11]

wagnerrp:

causing screwy behavior

[23:07:15]

sphery:

right

[23:08:00]

sphery:

so no matter what, we either need a fixed location for the stuff we need to write and the config file that allows us to find the backend/database

[23:08:06]

sphery:

or we need a way for users to specify it

[23:09:27]

sphery:

IMHO, $HOME/.mythtv/ works great, and if we just remove mysql.txt and check for config.xml in /etc/mythtv, too, then are there any problems left?

[23:11:51]

sphery:

in other words, I think the problem that users have is that we're mixing our configuration directory and non-configuration temp storage space in the same location

[23:12:05]

wagnerrp:

removal of mysql.txt and all the mess of locations it may exists is long overdue

[23:12:05]

sphery:

so allowing them to move config to /etc/mythtv, for example, would probably make them happy?

[23:12:12]

sphery:

yeah

[23:12:16]

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[23:12:26]

sphery:

I'll work on that patch this week

[23:12:41]

sphery:

have to redo it--and all the tons of testing, though, since danielk changed a ton of it

[23:13:02]

wagnerrp:

since we really only have that one configuration file, i wouldnt mind seeing the one configuration file stored elsewhere

[23:13:13]

sphery:

yeah

[23:13:34]

sphery:

traditionally /etc/mythtv/config.xml would be the alternate and home-dir overrides would be first choice

[23:13:42]

wagnerrp:

perhaps ~/.mythtv/config.xml, /etc/mythtv.xml, /etc/mythtv/config.xml, or a command line flag?

[23:13:54]

wagnerrp:

or what would be common?

[23:13:57]

sphery:

but that would mean that users could break it by getting a per-user one

[23:14:02]

wagnerrp:

gentoo uses /etc/conf.d/...

[23:14:26]

wagnerrp:

ive got little experience with other distros to know what would be good there

[23:14:36]

awalls:

i love privleged processes that trust myh user config file. :)

[23:14:40]

sphery:

well, I mean, traditionally SYSCONFDIR would only be used if no user override

[23:14:54]

sphery:

and, if we have to support distros using different locations, it should /not/ be a runtime option

[23:15:01]

sphery:

it should be a SYSCONFDIR compile flag

[23:15:41]

sphery:

I'd say default to /etc/mythtv and let distros change it with a ./configure --sysconfdir=/etc/conf.d

[23:16:01]

wagnerrp:

where would it be located in sysconfdir? config.xml would be too generic

[23:16:07]

sphery:

but, again, convention says user override should take precedence (so, ~/.mythtv/config.xml)

[23:16:08]

wagnerrp:

would need a different name

[23:16:20]

sphery:

we could change it to mythtv.xml

[23:16:24]

wagnerrp:

mythtv.conf? mythtv.xml?

[23:16:24]

sphery:

or mythtv-config.xml

[23:16:54]

[R]:

wagnerrp: so kelly's heroes is recording now

[23:16:58]

[R]:

wagnerrp: am i going to be disapointed?

[23:17:26]

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[23:17:27]

wagnerrp:

disappointed? always with those negative waves

[23:17:39]

wagnerrp:

why dont you think of something cheerful and helpful for a change

[23:17:46]

sphery:

glass half disappointed or glass half appointed?

[23:17:59]

[R]:

lol

[23:18:08]

wagnerrp:

bridge you were going to cross just blown up disappointed

[23:18:15]

awalls:

glass is twice as large as it needs to be

[23:18:17]

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[23:18:39]

sphery:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/mugs/eabe/

[23:19:16]

wagnerrp:

out of stock, estimated new... a year ago?

[23:19:28]

awalls:

:)

[23:19:59]

sphery:

uh, yeah, it couldn't be new if they've had it for over a year

[23:20:05]

sphery:

:)

[23:20:16]

sphery:

or maybe that's a euro date

[23:20:20]

sphery:

Oct 2012

[23:22:36]

wagnerrp:

wont we be gearing up for the apocalypse by that point?

[23:22:47]

wagnerrp:

i guess thats all the more reason for an optimistic drinking cup

[23:22:50]

awalls:

maybe TG is optimistic about a shipment

[23:23:29]

sphery:

hehe

[23:23:47]

sphery:

no problems, I've got a set of 12 of them in my Vault-Tec

[23:33:32]

MrFluffy:

Hmmm it looks like my GetKeyframePositions and sound going bad issue with 0.24 I posted about earlier only affects live tv.

[23:36:01]

sphery:

MrFluffy: Check your playback profile group... I highly recommend one of the VDPAU ones (if you have a vdpau-capable nvidia video card and nvidia proprietary drivers) or Slim. mythfrontend Utilities/Setup|Setup|TV Settings|Playback, 3rd screen

[23:36:22]

MrFluffy:

It was flawless under 0.23

[23:37:05]

MrFluffy:

I haven't changed card drivers or kernel drivers or anything which should affect the mpeg sound sync, so I need to look at myth itself I think

[23:38:48]

MrFluffy:

I've enabled logging, and now I know it only affects live tv, I can survive my "beta testers" having dodgy sound and having to skip back a few frames to resync while watching cartoons tomorrow while I investigate it :)

[23:40:19]

MrFluffy:

It just started happening on a recording, but when I skipped and got it to resync, I went back to the skipping section and it was smooth, so its an issue between the backend and front end, not in the card -> storage part.

[23:40:46]

MrFluffy:

My front ends are atom based nettops, they aren't VDPAU capable Im afraid.

[23:43:36]

wagnerrp:

bleh

[23:46:12]

awalls:

computers that you rest on your nets...

[23:47:57]

MrFluffy:

compared to the xbox classic's they replaced, theyre luxury

[23:48:34]

wagnerrp:

well... thats debatable

[23:48:38]

awalls:

just asking the obvious: nothings changed with the network?

[23:48:52]

wagnerrp:

the 733MHz P3 core is not all that much less powerful than a single-core 1.6GHz Atom

[23:49:36]

awalls:

changes in wireless network comms can ahppen due to external interference

[23:49:55]

MrFluffy:

no, I emerged in 0.24 from 0.23 because Im trying to get mythfrontend working on my arm based tablet, and there was no binary for 0.23, its all 100bt hardwired cat5 through real switches etc

[23:50:09]

awalls:

ah.

[23:50:18]

wagnerrp:

there are no gentoo binaries period

[23:50:27]

MrFluffy:

the tablet is debian wheezy

[23:50:48]

wagnerrp:

dont expect much luck with anything ARM

[23:50:55]

MrFluffy:

well, its factory android, but I'm butchering it because you can't get mythfrontend for android

[23:50:59]

wagnerrp:

not until openmax support gets added

[23:51:14]

wagnerrp:

when and if that ever happens

[23:51:27]

wagnerrp:

no ARM chip has enough power for HD video decoding

[23:51:32]

MrFluffy:

Ti have released SGX accelerated drivers for the omap chipset in it, so Im going to roll my sleeves up and quit waiting for someone else to fix it :)

[23:51:35]

wagnerrp:

which either means live transcoding by the backend

[23:51:43]

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[23:51:46]

wagnerrp:

or hardware decoding on the decoder chip

[23:51:47]

MrFluffy:

My display is a barco crt, HD is pointless anyway

[23:51:52]

wagnerrp:

which mythtv doesnt support at current

[23:52:03]

wagnerrp:

SGX... meaning PowerVR graphics?

[23:52:16]

MrFluffy:

Yes

[23:52:16]

wagnerrp:

surely that android doesnt have a CRT display

[23:52:39]

wagnerrp:

well intel has VAAPI drivers for their powervr-based GMA500/600 chips

[23:52:48]

wagnerrp:

but i doubt those would be applicable

[23:52:52]

MrFluffy:

no, my atom front ends output to tv's and the barco projector, so I dont want the overhead of hd anyway

[23:53:30]

MrFluffy:

so the tablet can play with that, I may even ressurect the pvr350 + stb I just took out so I can drop the display resolution for the tablet if it needs it

[23:53:33]

wagnerrp:

if you are seriously looking to work on getting mythtv to run on android, look into openmax

[23:53:47]

wagnerrp:

its a fairly generic video decoding API designed for embedded systems

[23:53:57]

MrFluffy:

Its debian, I have no android experience so that's a bridge too far for me

[23:54:16]

wagnerrp:

oh, right... just running linux directly on it

[23:54:17]

MrFluffy:

Its a gen8 Archos 101

[23:54:24]

wagnerrp:

in any case, same comment

[23:54:48]

MrFluffy:

Yes, Archos released a developer edition of linux for it , Angstrom, but its very not finished

[23:55:01]

MrFluffy:

I *have* mythfrontend running on it today under wheezy but the frame rate is terrible

[23:55:12]

wagnerrp:

our primary video playback guy has experimental OpenGLES support, and is interested in openmax at some point in the future

[23:55:35]

wagnerrp:

and our retired fearless leader apparently wrote an openmax driver for the tegra

[23:55:58]

wagnerrp:

and said he would be available for guidance if someone wanted to take a stab at it

[23:56:46]

MrFluffy:

archos have released their open source stuff in a git repository, and Ti have released the SGX Power VR code and its in kubuntu so I think the ingredients are there

[23:57:14]

MrFluffy:

but that doesnt fix my sound going out of sync on live tv, its just a unforseen side effect of the upgrade to support that :)

[23:57:37]

wagnerrp:

you arent using pulseaudio for output are you?

[23:57:42]

MrFluffy:

under android it can play a recorded myth stream saved onto a sd card

[23:58:23]

MrFluffy:

I'm still experimenting, mplayer and vlc etc are causing kernel oops, so I was as surprised as anyone to find myth working today when I tested it

[23:59:22]

MrFluffy:

when I say bad framerate, I mean like one frame in two minutes

[23:59:37]

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