Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, August 18th, 2011, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:04]

sphery:

s/hitachis/WDs/

[00:00:05]

nooneami:

well, the last generation were.

[00:00:11]

wagnerrp:

oh?

[00:00:21]

wagnerrp:

well the last samsungs ive had were 750s

[00:00:23]

sphery:

I like my F4--except for its lack of honest

[00:00:24]

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[00:00:28]

wagnerrp:

and theyre still running great

[00:00:34]

sphery:

my F4s are 2TB

[00:00:36]

stuartm:

sorry, I have to take issue with that, if anything I'd say it was the other way around

[00:00:37]

nooneami:

heh, my last generations were 80 and 120 gbs.

[00:00:55]

nooneami:

had 8, all died within 2 years

[00:01:06]

sphery:

I'm actually happy with all of my HDDs... Seagate, Samsung, Hitachi, and WD

[00:01:13]

wagnerrp:

these are all 3+ years old

[00:01:15]

nooneami:

nice little grinding sound – then.. nothing.

[00:01:23]

wagnerrp:

my seagates run too hot

[00:01:26]

** sphery suffers no brand loyalty when it comes to HDDs **

[00:01:32]

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[00:01:38]

JEDIDIAH___:

for awhile seagate drives were crap. they seem better now though.

[00:01:47]

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[00:01:49]

wagnerrp:

theyre all like 10F hotter than everything else

[00:01:54]

JEDIDIAH___:

time will tell.

[00:01:56]

wagnerrp:

according to SMART anyhow

[00:01:59]

nooneami:

Have had a WD Black, a WD Green and four Hitachi 2Ts now

[00:02:07]

sphery:

I actually had a Hitachi DeskStar 80GB that ran for 2yrs and 5mos doing the grinding/clicking thing before it finally failed

[00:02:22]

JEDIDIAH___:

it's fun to verify reported temps with an IR thermometer

[00:02:23]

nooneami:

these too shall fail, and I'll will one day be warning you not to buy Hitachis. l)

[00:02:29]

sphery:

amazing how much more peaceful my house became when I finally had to replace that drive

[00:02:42]

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[00:02:42]

wagnerrp:

i think im currently using a 40GB deathstar

[00:02:42]

stuartm:

until recently I still had an old 80GB Samsung that was going fine, in that time I'd had a Seagate, Hitachi and WD drive fail – not one of my Samsungs was removed from use because it failed but only because they were no longer big enough

[00:02:48]

wagnerrp:

still chugging along

[00:03:11]

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[00:03:20]

sphery:

nooneami: yeah, that's the way it seems to work... most all of the people who swear by some brand are happy with the ones they have now that haven't yet failed and are still upset over the previous brand they got that failed

[00:03:26]

nooneami:

Were the 40GBs deathstars too? I thought the painful series was 60G and above

[00:03:54]

sphery:

IMHO, they all will fail, and until the HDD has become obsolete, you won't have sufficient generational stats to find out which brand was the best to have bought

[00:04:15]

stuartm:

I had a 40GB deathstar, it was doing just fine for 2 or 3 years, but increasing paranoia caused me to replace it in the end

[00:04:22]

nooneami:

heh

[00:04:23]

sphery:

(which is why I buy based on price--and replace when I have to)

[00:04:58]

nooneami:

Speaking of which, I need to stop trying to add on sata cables to my mb. Any of you using any nas enclosures?

[00:05:35]

nooneami:

I am close to maxing out my current storage, need a better solution.

[00:07:53]

stuartm:

I was shocked to discover that I've only 300GB free ... that's just 3 months after adding another TB, I really don't know where it all went

[00:08:49]

sphery:

heh, I'm almost up to 2TB free

[00:09:08]

sphery:

Space Free: 1,955,784 MB ... woohoo!

[00:09:21]

stuartm:

especially since I'm not a pack rat, I delete after watching and only keep a small selection of films around so I have something to watch on a rainy day

[00:09:24]

sphery:

(plus I have two 2TB HDDs sitting on top of the box, not plugged in)

[00:09:56]

sphery:

yeah, seems MythTV can record them faster than I can watch them--especially during the season

[00:10:25]

wagnerrp:

anyone know if theres an xchat command to manually identify?

[00:10:43]

wagnerrp:

i have no idea what my login is, and dont feel like digging through the configs to find it

[00:10:53]

stuartm:

I blame HD, it does seem that most of my recordings are in HD these days and that does chew through the space

[00:11:22]

sphery:

heh, yeah, I have significantly upgraded my storage since switching from SDTV

[00:11:39]

nooneami:

yeah, no kidding – 8 gigs an hour, three recorders – it piles up.

[00:12:24]

k-man:

about 70 percent of my recordings are for the little one

[00:12:29]

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v wagnerrp

[00:12:31]

sphery:

I used to have 750MB or so on SDTV... Now I have 8.5TB plugged in and 4TB "standby" that one day I will plug back in

[00:12:38]

k-man:

I could slim it down a lot if I expired old recordings more quickly

[00:12:43]

sphery:

(likely when I upgrade my backend whos CPU is giving me MCEs)

[00:12:44]

yoyoned:

I have a HDhomerun connected to an antenna. There are a few channels that are found by the hdhomerun-config-gui, but are not found when mythtv is scanning for channels. Is there a way to change how myth scans? Can I slow down the scan so it looks longer at each channel? Is there something else I could try to add the missing channels?

[00:13:02]

wagnerrp:

750GB?

[00:13:07]

stuartm:

the recent addition of C4 HD and having two BBC HD channels instead of just one almost certainly goes a long way to explaining how space is vanishing faster today than it did just a year ago

[00:13:24]

sphery:

yoyoned: you likely need to change the timeouts in mythtv-setup (in the capture card config area, I think... maybe a 2nd screen of it)

[00:13:27]

wagnerrp:

yoyoned: what version of mythtv are you using?

[00:13:37]

sphery:

oh, and that ^^^

[00:15:32]

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[00:15:38]

yoyoned:

wagnerrp: I have .024 and I am using the mythbuntu packages

[00:15:51]

yoyoned:

.024

[00:15:59]

yoyoned:

0.24

[00:19:57]

sphery:

is it current 0.24-fixes (like from the -fixes repos at http://mythbuntu.org/repos or just whatever came with Mythbuntu 11.04)?

[00:20:08]

yoyoned:

I found the timeouts and changed the to 4000 ms, I can tell it is taking longer to scan each channel, but still no lock. Thanks for the info

[00:20:15]

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[00:20:22]

k-man:

yoyoned, what country are you in?

[00:20:26]

yoyoned:

sphery: USA

[00:21:37]

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[00:21:38]

yoyoned:

sphery: the channels that myth isn't finding are vhf 7 and 12

[00:23:53]

sphery:

yoyoned: best I can offer is to make sure you also have most current 0.24-fixes--not just the 0.24 that came with 11.04

[00:24:11]

yoyoned:

MythTV Version : v0.24-243-g9ba3ece MythTV Version : v0.24-243-g9ba3ece

[00:24:41]

sphery:

hmmm, that's Apr 15

[00:25:36]

yoyoned:

I'll see if there are updates available and try a gain in a bit, Thanks

[00:25:42]

sphery:

I'd say it wouldn't hurt to update--there have been a bunch of fixes since Apr (but I don't remember exactly when the channel scannibg fixes went in)

[00:25:55]

sphery:

check out http://mythbuntu.org/repos

[00:26:00]

sphery:

it should help you get the current ones

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[00:52:42]

wagnerrp:

any reason why a system could be reporting disk cache in use... yet its not in use, and it doesnt free it when i try to use it?

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[00:53:06]

wagnerrp:

specifically, 42GB of disk cache, and nother 30GB of buffers

[00:53:38]

wagnerrp:

leaving a system with 72GB with f-all to do, because it has no usable memory to do it in

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[02:05:16]

skd5aner:

sphery, yoyoned: check out the -fixes release notes, you can find out that way (every change that goes into -fixes is tracked) – http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.24-fixes

[02:05:38]

skd5aner:

that said, I'm a month behind, so...

[02:06:09]

sphery:

ah, yeah, I should have linked him there to find out when the changes went in

[02:06:26]

skd5aner:

I track every change that goes into -fixes for thar purpose

[02:06:39]

sphery:

but thinking back, I'm pretty sure that Apr 15 would have been right about the time of 11.04, so it's almost definitely not new enough to have the fixes

[02:06:42]

skd5aner:

to know why/when to update, if a bug you experience had a related patch

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[02:44:29]

[R]:

2011-08–17 19:43:31.172 ERROR when trying to delete file: GetPlaybackURL/UNABLE/TO/FIND/LOCAL/FILE/ON/mythback/3505_20110814002441.mpg. File doesn't exist. Database metadata will not be removed.

[02:44:32]

[R]:

how do i fix this?

[02:44:48]

wagnerrp:

tell it to force the delete

[02:44:53]

[R]:

how?

[02:45:04]

wagnerrp:

cant say...

[02:45:11]

[R]:

im trying delete in mythweb

[02:45:12]

iamlindoro:

it's a secret!

[02:45:15]

[R]:

and it looks like it deltes it

[02:45:18]

[R]:

but then it spits that out in the log

[02:45:24]

[R]:

and i refresh and its back

[02:50:40]

iamlindoro:

[R]: I think wagnerrp is suggesting you use the FE, as it allows you to "force" it when the file is missing

[02:50:45]

[R]:

ah

[02:50:47]

[R]:

oh well, i fixed it

[02:50:52]

wagnerrp:

actually i dont know

[02:50:58]

wagnerrp:

ive never actually had to use that feature

[02:51:07]

wagnerrp:

outside implementing it in the bindings

[02:52:04]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, when you delete, you get the first prompt, and then if it's missing, there's a second prompt

[02:52:12]

iamlindoro:

that allows you to delete it from the DB, etc.

[02:53:42]

[R]:

i want master goodness but im still too scared

[02:54:19]

iamlindoro:

The above is present in .24

[02:54:30]

[R]:

yeah, i think i recall seeing it

[02:58:05]

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[03:21:46]

sphery:

ah, more "you don't need no steenkin' WM" posts

[03:29:48]

[R]:

you know what would be cool

[03:30:20]

[R]:

if the "upcoming recording ,what do you want to do" promopt during livetv offered to switch you to another input if the channel you were watchig was avialable on one

[03:32:25]

skd5aner:

or, even better, it just recorded on the other input instead of prompting you at all

[03:32:28]

skd5aner:

;)

[03:33:23]

sphery:

no! That would break scheduling and break our "use the best available tuner for recordings (which you're likely to keep longer than live tv" approach. :)

[03:34:09]

** skd5aner has a love/hate relationship with livetv functionality debates **

[03:34:23]

[R]:

your assuming the other input had the channel it needed

[03:34:59]

skd5aner:

yes, and in my case, I have 3 different sources, and only 1 of the three overlaps with the other two, but I have multiple tuners on 2 of those three sources... so...

[03:35:17]

hoolio:

i've my family use the television for live tv

[03:35:17]

skd5aner:

the answer is "it could" in some cases

[03:35:20]

hoolio:

like normal people do

[03:35:21]

hoolio:

:)

[03:38:20]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: yeah, i just love to hate people arguing over it too

[03:39:30]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[03:39:38]

sphery:

if you want Live TV, get a DVLive TV

[03:39:41]

sphery:

not a DVR :)

[03:40:04]

[R]:

lol

[03:41:42]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: ;)

[03:42:05]

skd5aner:

my devs should just remove Live TV then

[03:42:10]

skd5aner:

s/my/myth

[03:43:24]

skd5aner:

it'd be a lot easier than trying to support something they don't use and don't really see the need for

[03:46:41]

hoolio:

i don't agree that it should be removed

[03:47:52]

skd5aner:

hoolio: (me either, but I'm just giving the guys some grief – it's a common theme the many of the devs don't really see the point of live tv and don't use it themselves, and therefore give a little grief to those who tend to leverage live tv)

[03:49:03]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: You probably shouldn't presume too much, if we put it to a vote among the devs, LiveTV would almost definitely be removed. It stays because we care about users, even when they decide to be obnoxious

[03:49:33]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: I know – and I know that some devs give it some TLC, even ones who don't ever use it for themselves

[03:51:09]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: but, isn't that kind of what I said? That the devs don't really see the point of it and to your point several of them might even be willing to dump it entirely if it came down to it?

[03:51:24]

skd5aner:

s/"the devs"/"some devs"

[03:51:35]

k-man:

its interesting to note that I never use the LiveTV function, but when my mother comes over to babysit, she always uses it

[03:51:36]

wagnerrp:

most devs dont see a personal use to it

[03:52:00]

wagnerrp:

but no one would ever try mythtv to come around to that idea of thinking if no livetv functionality existed in the first place

[03:52:02]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: It's kind of what it said, it was the presumption that Users and Devs have equal standing to give each other a hard time

[03:52:27]

wagnerrp:

except for those people who just want to use mythtv as a video player and dont intend to record tv anyway

[03:52:28]

skd5aner:

I guess all I'm saying it's the red-headed step child of mythtv – it's there, and it get's fed, but many devs encourage users to ignore it because the pretty children are the real bragging rights of mythtv

[03:53:00]

iamlindoro:

whereas if enough users assumed they could rip the devs about it, it would almost certainly lead to its removal... whereas the devs can attempt to sway others to our point of view all we want-- because ultimately, LiveTV remains at our pleasure

[03:53:58]

iamlindoro:

Just trying to avert a culture where people assume it's okay to make a lot of noise daring us to drop LiveTV... because that's exactly what would happen if pressed

[03:53:59]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: lol – no grief eh?

[03:54:34]

k-man:

is there some way to send key presses to mythtv from the command line?

[03:54:37]

iamlindoro:

keep it to a dull roar

[03:54:46]

skd5aner:

heh – fair enough :)

[03:55:05]

wagnerrp:

k-man: http://mythtv.org/wiki/Mythremctl.py

[03:55:31]

** skd5aner murmurs in a far corner **

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[03:56:31]

k-man:

wagnerrp, does it work with master?

[03:56:50]

wagnerrp:

it should

[03:56:59]

wagnerrp:

none of that stuff has changed

[03:57:52]

wagnerrp:

did i never update that?

[03:58:21]

k-man:

wagnerrp, oh, the wiki page just says it supports .23 and .23.1

[03:58:33]

skd5aner:

and, just for the record – I'm not advocating the removal of Live TV, but I do know that it doesn't win any popularity contests and sometimes wonder why the devs even bother (but thank you for doing so, I still leverage it from time to time)

[03:58:38]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: ^

[03:59:36]

wagnerrp:

i guess i havent updated the copy on the site for well over a year

[04:02:20]

k-man:

wagnerrp, do I need to install some python libs for it to work?

[04:02:49]

wagnerrp:

just the ones that come with mythtv

[04:04:01]

k-man:

hmm.. I get this error: ": No such file or directory"

[04:07:21]

k-man:

I think its something to do with the !#/usr/bin/env python if I run python mythremctrl.py it runs, but then I get a schema version number error

[04:07:36]

k-man:

MythTV.exceptions.MythDBError: Mismatched schema version for 'DBSchemaVer': database speaks version 1280, we speak version 1269

[04:07:42]

wagnerrp:

the schema check is in the bindings

[04:07:51]

wagnerrp:

meaning your bindings have not been updated in considerable time

[04:10:08]

k-man:

err... do I need to do something special to upgrade the bindings?

[04:10:20]

bindi_:

god damnit bindings talk all day

[04:10:20]

bindi_:

:(

[04:10:22]

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[04:15:08]

k-man:

ah, I see the problem, configure is not configuring it for some reason

[04:15:53]

k-man:

oh, I was missing urlgrabber

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[05:25:27]

k-man:

wagnerrp, now that I fixed the bindings – I get this error: http://pastie.org/2389843

[05:29:27]

wagnerrp:

yeah, should have expected that

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[05:31:19]

wagnerrp:

https://github.com/wagnerrp/mythtv-scripts/bl . . . ythremctl.py

[05:31:23]

wagnerrp:

give that version a try

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[06:21:02]

justinh:

gah. I hate it how some cover images are clipped

[06:24:57]

justinh:

damnit where have all the covers gone again?!

[06:26:47]

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[06:31:20]

justinh:

ahh I had forgot to re-grab those ones. the rest are still here

[06:31:42]

wagnerrp:

k-man: did you notice the mention of a different version?

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[06:44:20]

justinh:

GRRRRRR stupid blimmin tmdb search results

[06:44:34]

justinh:

2001, would that be... 2001? 2001? 2001? 2001? or.... 2001?

[06:47:18]

justinh:

ahhhhhhhhhhh

[06:47:53]

justinh:

seems the results screen in my theme needs some work

[06:49:20]

k-man:

wagnerrp, yes sorry, been a bit busy with a few things

[06:49:43]

k-man:

I downloaded it but it doesn't see my frontend (I did enable the network control option in the fe)

[06:49:57]

k-man:

didn't get a chance to look further into it and didn't want to pester you until I had

[06:52:39]

justinh:

in my search results screen I see.. title.. and nothing else. whoops

[06:53:23]

justinh:

thanks for that, iamlindoro :-) Makes for much more positive identification now

[06:56:26]

justinh:

heh I like this too, things which you only want to appear in a statetype which inherits from another -if you want it to be identical but appear in the right order when you changed something, you just have to mention it with a <thing name="thenameofit" />

[06:56:55]

justinh:

otherwise – with the qt painter at least, it messes up the drawing order

[06:57:11]

justinh:

sadly I'm stuck with the qt painter, working over nx

[06:58:04]

justinh:

oh wait, no I'm not

[07:01:55]

justinh:

I still keep running into things I wish were possible. Like in the gallery screen of mythvideo I've got a rect at the bottom of each button containing: title, then on the line below, childcount – but I've found myself wanting to be able to use 'year' on that line too.. or subtitle

[07:02:32]

justinh:

might have to rethink the childcount thing

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[07:19:54]

k-man:

themeing is non trivial I am discovering

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[07:26:33]

justinh:

I still don't understand what puts so many people off

[07:26:59]

justinh:

"muhhh, I can't draw"... heh that doesn't stop whoever designed GNOME

[07:27:43]

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[07:28:16]

justinh:

oh bugger. %n video(s) doesn't only not work because the translation is futzed, it's also inappropriate where there are subdirectories

[07:32:31]

justinh:

argh and there are draw order problems

[07:33:31]

justinh:

trying to put a bar at the top where there are subnodes, then the childcount... all good so far... but with a little directory icon too... but the dir icon is being overdrawn by the button background (!)

[07:34:03]

justinh:

try with the gl painter again

[07:34:22]

justinh:

hmmnope

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[07:37:27]

justinh:

maybe not a draw order problem then. even moving the background shape out of the statetype & before the icon it's still messed up. maybe it's a scaling thing

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[08:23:34]

justinh:

heh now need a state for if there's banner artwork to conditionally display the title

[08:25:19]

justinh:

don't want much, do I? heh

[08:26:52]

justinh:

ah I could always draw the banner on top of the title, so if there's no banner.. we see the title

[08:28:23]

justinh:

dunno why but mythvideo has always been my favourite area to theme

[08:32:34]

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[08:34:58]

justinh:

here we go now http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15539509/mythvid1.png

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[08:45:58]

justinh:

ah nuts. that messes up series

[08:46:18]

justinh:

unless....

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[08:49:40]

justinh:

bah. the banner has to go. Pity

[08:50:14]

justinh:

unless I use shadowed text of course (over my dead body)

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justinh:

I need to find some cover art for Bobby Thompson

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justinh:

wheee http://www.themoviedb.org/movie/72459#

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[14:41:22]

oopepe:

Hi, i want to use the generatevideothumbs.pl from the mythtv wiki. The script assumes abslolute filenames for videos in the table videometadata, but they are not. How are the filenames from videometata mapped to the filesystem? I guess with the help of the storagegroup table, but i cannot figure out the connection between them.

[14:42:51]

sphery:

oopepe: when it comes to MythVideo filenames in Storage Groups, all we know is that the file exists off /one/ of the directories of the Videos storage group on the host specified

[14:43:53]

sphery:

the generatevideothumbs.pl script, however, is extremely old, uses the "legacy" perl bindings (i.e. no one has really updated them basically since they were written around 0.18 timeframe), and doesn't properly figure out DB info, etc.

[14:44:25]

sphery:

IMHO, the best thing you could do is rewrite it from scratch using the Python bindings, which will give you a much nicer framework to use and do a lot of the file finding for you

[14:44:38]

oopepe:

Is there another way of getting video thumbnails?

[14:44:41]

oopepe:

Ah, i see

[14:44:41]

sphery:

then we can get rid of the generatevideothumbs.pl script and replace it with your new one :)

[14:45:04]

sphery:

Python bindings are documented at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Python_bindings

[14:46:37]

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[14:47:23]

iamlindoro:

justinh: Heh, what'd I do to get a thanks?

[14:47:38]

oopepe:

sphery: Thanks for the info.

[14:48:10]

justinh:

iamlindoro: make more work for me :-P But nah, I can see the massive advantage in the way the results are presented now (in the metadata lookup search results screen)

[14:48:45]

justinh:

rather than just being presented with a title & a year in a list.. there's now a whole wealth of info to help determine which is the right one

[14:49:20]

justinh:

currently my search window is only showing the title, resulting in many expletives this end ;)

[14:50:22]

justinh:

btw I'm just assuming it was you wot done it. if it was somebody else, thanks to them too

[14:50:50]

sphery:

oopepe: also, it may now be possible to use the python bindings to ask mythbackend to do a "preview" image for the MythVideo video file. it's possible wagnerrp may know. If so, that would be 100x preferred over calling mplayer to do it

[14:51:26]

sphery:

if you did it that way, it would just work for everyone--and could be called from any machine regardless of where the video is stored (which is our plan for all the mythvideo stuff in the future)

[14:51:29]

justinh:

sphery: come now, leaping from perl to python? oofs :-)

[14:51:51]

sphery:

I heard that a Ruby is more valuable than a Pearl, but that a Python can swallow either of them

[14:51:55]

justinh:

mind, I can't read my own perl back let along somebody else's python

[14:52:23]

ThisNewGuy:

iamlindoro: some series (e.g. WordWorld) may have two "shows" in a single episode (e.g. "Get Well Soon Soup; Mmm-mmm-milk!"). In thetvdb.com these are represented as two separate episodes, but SchedulesDirect shows them as one. Thetvdb.com resolves this conflict by using the "dvd episode" field instead of the "episode field" – do you think this is something myth can account for? Right now all look ups fail because of the

[14:52:30]

justinh:

some of my methods have been er... shall we say.. BODGES

[14:52:37]

sphery:

yeah, the biggest problem with Perl is that our bindings aren't, er. finished... They're a /very/ low-level approach to mythtv scripting

[14:53:04]

sphery:

so you end up writing programs, like generatevideothumbs.pl, that break when MythTV changes

[14:53:14]

sphery:

oopepe: ^^^ (why I'm suggesting Python bindings)

[14:58:40]

oopepe:

sphery: Ill take a look at it. Sounds definitely like a better approach of getting the thumbnails..

[14:59:06]

sphery:

cool, good luck--and thanks in advance for the help

[14:59:23]

justinh:

thanks *buntu. I know that closing a terminal which had started an app will kill the app. DUH

[14:59:34]

justinh:

*not necessarily ;-)

[15:00:14]

sphery:

"Deleting this link does not uninstall the program. Are you sure you want to delete ..."

[15:00:25]

sphery:

(or whatever the Windows warning is when you delete a link to a binary :)

[15:00:38]

justinh:

yup. very tiresome

[15:01:04]

justinh:

how about a 'hey I've been using this OS for a while now, give me some credit please' control panel applet

[15:01:17]

justinh:

and with that thought... I'm off home :)

[15:01:30]

sphery:

OK, so I thought it was crazy that we were moving from SVN's nice, orderly, revision numbers to git's unintelligible-without-a-repo changeset hash numbers.

[15:01:44]

justinh:

"There is still a process running in this terminal. Closing the terminal will kill it"

[15:01:54]

sphery:

However, it seems that's the new cool--at least it will make us more like the "eventual" goal for Firefox

[15:02:03]

sphery:

where users have no idea what version of code they're running

[15:02:26]

sphery:

justinh: heh, that would be /so/ useful to have

[15:02:42]

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[15:02:46]

sphery:

only problem is that I'd always forget to untick it after setting up someone's system

[15:03:50]

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[15:21:57]

wagnerrp:

sphery: there is no built in method to generate thumbnails

[15:22:25]

wagnerrp:

you could use the System class to wrap mythpreviewgenerator

[15:22:36]

wagnerrp:

but there is no real way to interface it with the jobqueue

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[15:29:57]

iamlindoro:

Heh, looks like the HDHR Prime 6CC is finally in stock without a preorder

[15:30:03]

iamlindoro:

for those that need six cablecard tuners...

[15:31:00]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: I loved this post: http://thedigitalmediazone.com/2011/08/03/hau . . . l-august-22/

[15:32:04]

devinheitmueller:

Hmm, the Hauppauge DCR-2650 which was set to come out at the end of the month was delayed to Aug 22nd. Unrelated to that the SiliconDust product was set to come out at the end of the month was also delayed until the 22nd. What a weird coincidence....

[15:32:15]

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[15:32:20]

jrr:

probably have a common supplier

[15:40:07]

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[15:41:29]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: heh

[15:42:02]

iamlindoro:

jrr: SiliconDust *is* the supplier

[15:42:09]

iamlindoro:

or at least, they are the supplier to Hauppauge

[15:42:23]

iamlindoro:

obviously, they have their own suppliers/manufacturers

[15:42:37]

wagnerrp:

jrr: the DCR-2650 is basically the USB version of the HDHomeRun prime

[15:42:59]

wagnerrp:

if you look at the circuit boards, the placement of most of the parts appears identical

[15:43:20]

wagnerrp:

they just install a USB-B jack instead of an -A jack and an ethernet port

[15:46:14]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: Congrats on (almost) moving back ;)

[15:46:48]

wagnerrp:

oh? leaving MI?

[15:48:31]

jrr:

oh. neat.

[15:49:27]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: thanks. Will be good to be back in New York.

[15:49:33]

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[15:49:34]

iamlindoro:

I imagine!

[15:49:48]

devinheitmueller:

Michigan winters are so grey. They sell light boxes at Costco.

[15:49:57]

devinheitmueller:

(to help avert seasonal depression)

[15:50:40]

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[15:50:43]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, although not the same, I moved from CA where I grew up to Boston for five years-- my first year was like "Neat, snow!" followed by four years of "S**T!" Snow!"

[15:51:36]

iamlindoro:

Where I'm from, Winter means it's only 70 and you should probably put a sweater on if you go out at night ;)

[15:51:38]

devinheitmueller:

Boston's pretty nice for the other three seasons. I was there for Linux Plumbers last year and being outside was quite pleasant.

[15:52:03]

iamlindoro:

yeah, Summer in Boston is neat, and I have a passion for American history so it's great for that

[15:52:11]

iamlindoro:

Fall is OK too

[15:52:33]

wagnerrp:

ive got a cousin who moved to minneapolis

[15:52:50]

devinheitmueller:

I went there for a long weekend a few summers ago, and walked the "Freedom Trail". It was cliche, but still pretty fun.

[15:52:53]

wagnerrp:

he basically said the only good thing was that it would prevent his girls from dating, since there would be too much snow piled up at the door

[15:53:26]

iamlindoro:

heh

[15:54:43]

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[16:01:46]

skd5aner:

"Sorry honey, the snow fell off the roof and burried your date"

[16:01:55]

skd5aner:

"NOT AGAIN DAD!?!"

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[16:19:29]

sphery:

wagnerrp: no support for QUERY_GENPIXMAP2 ? Though even if we did have it, I'm not sure if it's been set up to handle programinfos for videos (vs recordings).

[16:19:43]

sphery:

wonder if the MythXML generator would work

[16:19:55]

wagnerrp:

you can call the command manually, and it will return the result

[16:20:12]

sphery:

yeah, just thinking it should all happen on the backend--not where the script is running

[16:20:14]

wagnerrp:

which you could then do openScreenshot('w') and write it in

[16:20:45]

sphery:

the script should just tell mythtv to do it, and it should get done

[16:20:50]

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[16:21:00]

sphery:

(so the script doesn't break, again, when we change mythtv, again)

[16:25:01]

sphery:

so, mythxml is a big no

[16:25:32]

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[17:49:09]

nooneami:

HDHR Prime? I thought that wouldn't work with myth

[17:49:28]

nooneami:

at least, for encrypted content. No HDCP certified pathway and all that jazz

[17:50:28]

iamlindoro:

nooneami: Who told you that? We've been saying since day one that it will work for anything marked copy freely, which, depending on cable provider, could be nearly everything

[17:50:44]

iamlindoro:

Comcast users, for example, generally can expect to digitally capture everything but HBO/Showtime/etc. in Myth

[17:51:02]

iamlindoro:

SiliconDust's founder is a long time MythTV user

[17:51:20]

nooneami:

Really? Okay.. guess I am ordering a HDHR Prime.

[17:51:33]

wagnerrp:

nooneami: HDCP has nothing to do with anything

[17:51:44]

iamlindoro:

Time Warner Cable users will get nearly nothing or nothing, Comcast users will get nearly everything, other cable provides could be anywhere in that range

[17:51:58]

wagnerrp:

HDCP is used between two HDMI devices

[17:52:08]

nooneami:

wait.. before I do, what is the best way to check what channels are marked copy freely? Or is it program specific?

[17:52:22]

wagnerrp:

do you have a digital cable box?

[17:52:57]

nooneami:

wagnerr: Yeah, think I had the wrong acronym there and/or am jumbling up my concepts.

[17:53:10]

wagnerrp:

'cablelabs' is what youre looking for

[17:53:20]

nooneami:

And yeah, Motorola digital cable boxes from RCN

[17:53:30]

wagnerrp:

do they have firewire?

[17:53:36]

nooneami:

yah

[17:53:54]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Don't do that

[17:53:58]

iamlindoro:

what you're about to do

[17:54:01]

nooneami:

that is what I am using for channel changes.

[17:54:02]

iamlindoro:

Firewire != CC

[17:54:16]

wagnerrp:

true, but anything you can get over firewire, you should be able to get over CC

[17:54:17]

iamlindoro:

http://support.tivo.com/ci/fattach/get/31932/ . . . L3hSNUhpU0Jr

[17:54:26]

wagnerrp:

however the same cannot be said in opposite

[17:54:41]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: true, but firewire stopped working here long ago, yet all the channels but Premiums are CC:0x00

[17:54:55]

wagnerrp:

just because you cannot get something over firewire does not mean you cannot get it over CC

[17:55:05]

iamlindoro:

whoops, linked the wrong doc

[17:55:37]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Right, I'm just pointing out that there's little point in asking anything about firewire as there's little if any relationship between the two

[17:55:40]

wagnerrp:

some cable boxes can also be put into some form of diagnostic mode, in which it will show you what copy level the channel is on

[17:56:23]

wagnerrp:

nooneami: anyway, check the mailing list archives

[17:56:27]

iamlindoro:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Mot . . . P_is_Enabled

[17:56:31]

iamlindoro:

There

[17:56:33]

wagnerrp:

there have been several discussions about this over the past year

[17:56:49]

iamlindoro:

Read that section of that doc, put it in diagnostic mode, and you can see the CCI info for the channel

[17:56:54]

iamlindoro:

you want 0x00

[17:57:26]

nooneami:

Hmm, interesting. I wonder if there is a way to automate that check.

[17:57:31]

iamlindoro:

no

[17:57:47]

iamlindoro:

Since it relies on you physically pressing buttons and reading screens

[17:57:56]

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[17:58:29]

nooneami:

Can we send the equivalent button presses over firewire?

[17:58:37]

wagnerrp:

silicon dust has up a page that lists what channels can be captured unencrypted

[17:58:53]

wagnerrp:

perhaps once enough Prime units on the market, they will display a similar page showing copy protection

[17:59:14]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Apparently they're already gathering the data, from what I have gleaned from talk with those guys

[17:59:48]

wagnerrp:

i would be surprised if they werent planning such a thing

[18:00:02]

wagnerrp:

unless release of such information was banned by cable labs...

[18:00:12]

nooneami:

Hmm, better wait then. 500 bucks for a very expensive brick doesn't sound fun.

[18:00:42]

wagnerrp:

if it doesnt work, you could probably toss it on ebay for little loss

[18:00:56]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: They're going to release it is what I am saying

[18:01:04]

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[18:01:04]

iamlindoro:

it'll be in the same interface

[18:01:17]

iamlindoro:

If it doesn't work, they'll accept a return

[18:02:48]

nooneami:

so tempting – could replace my three hd-pvrs

[18:03:00]

wagnerrp:

no

[18:03:03]

wagnerrp:

six

[18:03:09]

iamlindoro:

or three

[18:03:27]

iamlindoro:

depending which you buy

[18:03:31]

wagnerrp:

the $500 unit currently on sale is basically two Primes strapped together in a rackmount chassis, with a shared power supply

[18:03:33]

nooneami:

except, my hdvpr lets me capture the prem channels too.

[18:03:45]

wagnerrp:

the three tuner version is only $250

[18:03:49]

wagnerrp:

but still on back order

[18:03:53]

iamlindoro:

correct, if you subscribe to premiums you would want to keep an HD-PVR

[18:03:59]

wagnerrp:

or pre-order, depending on how you want to look at it

[18:04:12]

nooneami:

damn, less useful. Game of Thrones ftw.

[18:04:14]

iamlindoro:

And that said, nobody has any idea how RCN, who appears to be your provider, will behave

[18:04:36]

wagnerrp:

isnt RCN canadian?

[18:04:45]

iamlindoro:

TWC will be horrible everywhere, Comcast is apparently pretty good for cablecard users everywhere

[18:04:45]

nooneami:

nope

[18:04:49]

iamlindoro:

RCN is in New England

[18:04:57]

iamlindoro:

Rogers is what you're thinking of

[18:05:04]

nooneami:

Yah, they have been awesome in every other way.

[18:05:05]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[18:05:41]

nooneami:

except for that whole debacle where one fine day, all my hdhomeruns stopped being able to see anything.

[18:06:52]

nooneami:

and my 250s and my 350s. *sniffle*

[18:07:54]

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[18:07:54]

nooneami:

Let me tell you. There was crying that day. Manly crying, of course – but still.

[18:08:16]

wagnerrp:

HDHomeRuns and PVRs stopped working on the same day?

[18:08:37]

wagnerrp:

did they drop analog cable, and screw up their digital modulators all at once?

[18:10:47]

nooneami:

Something like that, I think.

[18:11:30]

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[18:12:50]

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[18:13:54]

nooneami:

whatever this bullcrap was: http://fuhm.net/boston_rcn_channels.html

[18:18:11]

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[18:20:07]

wagnerrp:

they cant do that

[18:20:37]

wagnerrp:

they must re-transmit the 'must carry' stations in the format they receive them

[18:20:50]

wagnerrp:

using no more heavy compression than they use for other cable channels

[18:24:09]

nooneami:

:)

[18:24:51]

justinh:

iamlindoro: 6 tuners in one thing? How many cablecards? Just the one?

[18:24:56]

wagnerrp:

two

[18:25:15]

wagnerrp:

multi-stream cablecards can technically handle up to six streams from six tuners

[18:25:17]

justinh:

are only 2 required for all 6, or.. .?

[18:25:32]

wagnerrp:

but this is just two three-tuner HDHomeRun Primes strapped into a single chassis

[18:25:33]

iamlindoro:

right, 2 for 6

[18:25:35]

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[18:25:39]

iamlindoro:

and on the other model, one for 3

[18:25:43]

justinh:

dunno why I'm so interested. it'd never be useful here

[18:25:50]

wagnerrp:

two cablecards, two network ports, two coax inputs

[18:25:55]

wagnerrp:

shared case and shared power supply

[18:26:02]

justinh:

sounds nifty though

[18:26:22]

iamlindoro:

I have a hunch that they have a T2 tuner on the way, too

[18:26:29]

iamlindoro:

which would be more interesting to you

[18:27:03]

justinh:

yeah I'd sooner go with a networked tuner than a USB piece of crap :)

[18:27:11]

justinh:

also, no drivers to worry about what so evah!

[18:27:25]

justinh:

just plug in & go (mythtv support allowing)

[18:27:40]

justinh:

eek. did I just let myself be swayed by a networked tuner? heheheh

[18:28:12]

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[18:28:20]

justinh:

the thought of having to fool around with drivers again just makes me shudder

[18:28:30]

wagnerrp:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media . . . back1.2l.jpg

[18:28:51]

justinh:

I was all over that when i started out with dvb tv tuners & I thought I would be done with it now

[18:29:05]

wagnerrp:

as compared to the 3-tuner version... http://cdn-three.usingwindowshomeserver.com/w . . . 3.jpg?76a6e8

[18:29:44]

justinh:

wagnerrp: what's that 'SDV' port for?

[18:29:52]

iamlindoro:

Switched Digital Video

[18:30:07]

iamlindoro:

It's a scheme that allows the cable company to only broadcast the channels to a node which are being watched

[18:30:12]

iamlindoro:

to save bandwidth

[18:30:17]

justinh:

ahh

[18:30:25]

justinh:

looks firewire-y

[18:30:25]

wagnerrp:

right now, the 'tuning adapters' are just a modified cable box

[18:30:32]

wagnerrp:

its USB

[18:30:32]

iamlindoro:

they take, say, the top 100 channels and broadcast them all the time, and dynamically multiplex the rest on demand

[18:30:45]

justinh:

that sounds.. sucky

[18:30:57]

wagnerrp:

nice in theory, poor in implementation

[18:30:58]

iamlindoro:

Evidently, it is

[18:31:03]

iamlindoro:

Thankfully not used here

[18:31:08]

iamlindoro:

(in my locale)

[18:31:19]

wagnerrp:

basically, it lets them use less channels for video, and reserve more for internet

[18:31:23]

justinh:

sounds like a lot of extra software rollout & testing they likely won't want

[18:31:52]

justinh:

you guys not got any h.264 broadcast yet then?

[18:32:05]

iamlindoro:

Sure we do

[18:32:26]

iamlindoro:

We have Satellite and IPTV providers which use it broadly, and even some limited use by Cable companies

[18:32:40]

iamlindoro:

So nothing terrestrial, but I doubt that will come for... well, for a long time

[18:33:02]

justinh:

makes sense. those awful screenshots of cable output I've seen looked like stuff I'd be demanding my money back for

[18:33:18]

justinh:

heh I wouldn't expect terrestrial to change for ages yet

[18:33:27]

justinh:

over here in UK land I wouldn't be so sure

[18:33:44]

iamlindoro:

Speaking for my market, the quality of the broadcast is generally very good, and thus I'm never bothered by it being MPEG-2

[18:33:55]

wagnerrp:

i dont really understand why its necessary for cable

[18:34:01]

justinh:

there's been little outcry enough over the whole 'HD ready' TVs not even being able to receive it over the air

[18:34:01]

wagnerrp:

i mean they just dropped analog

[18:34:09]

wagnerrp:

they had a sudden influx of double the bandwidth

[18:34:24]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: I think it's mostly to free bandwidth for data service

[18:34:35]

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[18:34:46]

wagnerrp:

but they just doubled their available bandwidth, and they already need more?

[18:34:47]

justinh:

going with dvb-t2 was just stupid IMHO. we had enough bandspace already – it's always been wasted

[18:35:09]

justinh:

it only gets them like another 30% or something

[18:35:32]

justinh:

killing off the +1 repeat channels would achieve the same thing

[18:35:46]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Comcast in my market just upped their max speed from 20 Mbit to 50... so anything is possible

[18:35:58]

iamlindoro:

They've got to keep pace with the fiber providers

[18:35:59]

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[18:36:17]

justinh:

wonder how much the BBC gets in return for having helped develop the modulator chipsets

[18:36:20]

wagnerrp:

heh, foolish hope

[18:36:26]

wagnerrp:

you cant keep pace with fiber

[18:36:48]

justinh:

virgin media have supposedly been testing gigabit broadband here

[18:36:54]

iamlindoro:

Sure you can... if you lay a LOT of cable ;)

[18:37:14]

justinh:

if they were smart in the 1st place they'd have used fibre

[18:37:22]

wagnerrp:

you start getting close, all they have to do is beam down another laser and release boxes with transducers tuned for a different frequency

[18:37:39]

iamlindoro:

cable predates the wide availability of fiber... the infrastructure was already there

[18:38:01]

iamlindoro:

We have geographical limitations other countries don't have

[18:38:11]

justinh:

the cable trunks in the UK have been fibre since just about forever AFAIK

[18:38:14]

iamlindoro:

ie, some markets in this country are the size of entire other countries

[18:38:18]

justinh:

heh

[18:38:37]

justinh:

they're taking a swipe from the TV tax here to provide broadband out in the sticks

[18:38:44]

iamlindoro:

and then wide stretches of nothingness to connect them through

[18:38:51]

wagnerrp:

yeah, we did that a while back

[18:38:55]

justinh:

to which I say PFFT. Let them pay for their own. Broadband internet isn't a right

[18:39:02]

wagnerrp:

a big broadband stimulus bill

[18:39:19]

wagnerrp:

hundreds of millions spent bring broadband to thousands of users in the sticks

[18:39:39]

justinh:

if a village wants to get connected let em club together, pay for a big pipe into the place & sort the rest out themselves. simples

[18:40:11]

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[18:40:44]

justinh:

it'd have been nice if a rumour I heard about the GPO back in the day was true – that before they got privatised they planned to roll out fibre up everybody's front path. The mind boggles with what we could have had now

[18:41:21]

justinh:

BTW those HDHR boxes aren't exactly tatty plastic boxes are they?

[18:41:34]

wagnerrp:

the smaller ones are

[18:41:37]

justinh:

the 6 tuner one especially

[18:41:40]

wagnerrp:

the big one looks like metal

[18:42:13]

justinh:

haven't really seen the others properly. not that I'd care much.. it'd live in the cupboard under the stairs with the backend, router, switch etc

[18:43:46]

justinh:

gah why can't they make these icky plastic boxes with flat bases?

[18:44:20]

justinh:

or do they come with stands to put em vertically? ;-)

[18:44:47]

wagnerrp:

at least my old one has a flat base

[18:44:50]

justinh:

mind, any I get will be stuck to a 19" rack shelf :D

[18:44:55]

wagnerrp:

the 6-tuner one looks flat and has feet

[18:45:03]

wagnerrp:

and is designed for an AV rack

[18:45:10]

justinh:

looks not far off rack-mountable

[18:45:48]

justinh:

ordinary HDHR looks like an analogue cable box from the 1980s

[18:47:52]

justinh:

heh nobody done a teardown yet? I wanna see the guts!

[18:48:40]

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[18:51:36]

justinh:

I guess everybody's too darn busy using theirs ;)

[18:57:33]

wagnerrp:

http://cdn-three.usingwindowshomeserver.com/w . . . b.jpg?76a6e8

[19:01:40]

justinh:

wow, not much to it eh

[19:03:33]

justinh:

flash, some kind of SoC with onboard USB... ethernets...

[19:05:37]

justinh:

I was more interested in the ordinary HDHR to see if there was a reason they have that ungodly lump in the box

[19:06:02]

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[19:08:52]

justinh:

I figure it's probably the tuner cans & they were all about saving plastic.. or just being brave lol

[19:09:58]

justinh:

oo email from radiotimes.com

[19:10:25]

wagnerrp:

looks like there as been some headway into patent reform

[19:10:55]

wagnerrp:

a Federal Circuit Appeals court just shot down a software patent because the math it used was 'too easy'

[19:11:46]

wagnerrp:

everything in the patent could reasonably be done by a human with pencil and paper

[19:12:07]

justinh:

if the maths it used was too easy, then surely just copying a display method (a la coverflow) would also be chuck-outable

[19:12:30]

justinh:

also grid-based EPG layouts...

[19:12:33]

justinh:

etc etc etc :)

[19:14:02]

wagnerrp:

well thats the question

[19:14:25]

wagnerrp:

does that mean any software patent can be invalidated if the defense gets out a pen and paper and draws up the result of the computer program

[19:14:30]

nooneami:

That would rock my day.

[19:14:49]

nooneami:

And I can't even draw that well, but I would inundate the USPTO with crude drawings.

[19:14:57]

justinh:

whoops would go up all over the world

[19:15:01]

nooneami:

Wait.. that didn't come out right.

[19:17:38]

justinh:

yup, pretty happy with the gallery view in mythvideo now :-)

[19:20:08]

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[19:21:58]

juan_:

Hola

[19:22:11]

juan_:

tenia una consulta

[19:22:47]

juan_:

sobre las traducciones de mythtv

[19:23:35]

juan_:

[19:25:30]

justinh:

hmmm. I think you might need to use English tonight :-)

[19:25:59]

stuartm:

he's here about the spanish translation

[19:26:03]

justinh:

seems you're saying the spanish translation is incomplete :)

[19:26:04]

stuartm:

ironically

[19:26:40]

stuartm:

I understand a lot of Spanish, but I'm no good in conversation :)

[19:27:21]

juan_:

Hello how I can help the Spanish translation is not complete because

[19:27:24]

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[19:27:41]

stuartm:

knightr: ^^^

[19:28:05]

juan_:

perdon mi ingles pero no escribo apenas

[19:28:28]

juan_:

excuse my English but I do not write just

[19:28:29]

stuartm:

juan_: I don't write well in Spanish either :)

[19:28:36]

juan_:

ok

[19:29:18]

juan_:

thought it was a multilingual channel

[19:29:27]

stuartm:

juan_: our Spanish translator has disappeared, knightr is our translation coordinator, he may be able to help you

[19:30:53]

sphery:

juan_: also, have you see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Translation

[19:30:55]

juan_:

I've been trying to contact knight but what is not in the computer

[19:31:12]

sphery:

seems David Lara is the contact person for the Spanish translation team

[19:33:46]

juan_:

If mythtv version 0.24 but not translated, so I'm interested in helping or making a new translation

[19:36:06]

sphery:

we do have a generic Spanish translation, even for 0.24. Were you considering making a region-specific es translation?

[19:37:42]

juan_:

Spain

[19:38:07]

juan_:

Well start a new translation if anyone needs it and I got in touch with the team and let them mythtv my email.

[19:38:47]

stuartm:

http://www.insidethex.co.uk/mythtv/translatio . . . sult.html#es

[19:38:51]

sphery:

did you send an email to David Lara, too? Should definitely do that

[19:39:30]

sphery:

(and I have a feeling he speaks and writes Spanish, so that may make figuring out status/what needs done easier)

[19:41:39]

juan_:

ok command him an email that I left so it has very good program as mythtv

[19:43:20]

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[19:43:50]

juan_:

Well see you later, bye

[19:44:03]

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[19:46:24]

Toast:

I'm having real trouble with BBC HD. I get noise rather than a picture. Can anyone help me debug the problem please?

[19:48:22]

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[19:53:32]

stuartm:

Toast: what card are you using?

[19:55:23]

Toast:

TT-connect S2–3600, it's a usb card in a Debian stable system.

[19:56:00]

Toast:

When I first got it running it worked, but it spontanously stopped working, and no amount of returning, or deleting cards and returning has helped.

[19:56:59]

stuartm:

Toast: can you view BBC One HD ok?

[19:58:16]

stuartm:

what does the noise look like? Lots of blocks and audio pops, or like old fashioned static?

[19:58:38]

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[19:59:28]

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[20:01:14]

Toast:

Blocky, though not anything which I recognise as part of the picture. The sound track is mostly odd noise, though with the occasional sound which reminds me of a heavily processed voice.

[20:02:03]

Toast:

It seems to struggle to lock sometimes as well. I'm trying to bring it back now and getting TLM_ partial lock.

[20:02:13]

Toast:

SD TV works fine.

[20:02:39]

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[20:04:02]

Toast:

stuartm: Just saw the other question... No, I can't view any of the BBC HD channels.

[20:05:05]

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[20:06:59]

stuartm:

Toast: the description of the picture and the failure to lock sometimes suggests a signal strength/quality issue on that multiplex

[20:07:31]

stuartm:

I used to own a card which got a perfect signal on every frequency except the one used for the BBC HD channels

[20:07:41]

Toast:

I'm looking for a picture paste bin to send you a copy...

[20:07:51]

stuartm:

I'm not saying that's the case here but it makes me wonder

[20:09:15]

Toast:

I would be surprised if that was the case. When it worked it worked well, plus when they switched off analogue here I think they boosted the signal quite a bit. (the fault happened separately to that change).

[20:11:55]

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[20:12:34]

stuartm:

sorry, I thought you said it was a DVB-S2 card

[20:13:15]

Toast:

http://imagebin.org/168585

[20:13:19]

stuartm:

at least according to google it is

[20:13:45]

Toast:

Yes it is. I used to use a PCI DVB-S card.

[20:13:54]

stuartm:

the signal was boosted on Terrestrial after the analogue switch off, not on Satellite

[20:14:26]

Toast:

Of course. I have DVB-T cards as well. My mistake.

[20:16:26]

Toast:

The link above is to a screenshot.

[20:16:39]

stuartm:

the picture is what I'd expect from a poor signal, is it possible that your dish alignment has been affected? Strong winds or careless window cleaners have been known to shift them just enough to lose a good lock on certain frequencies

[20:16:46]

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[20:17:56]

stuartm:

Toast: you could try asking whether there are any known issues with that hardware in #linuxtv, it might be a driver bug – unlikely but worth asking

[20:19:02]

Toast:

stuartm: OK. They may be able to help me confirm if I have built the drivers correctly as well. Thanks.

[20:19:07]

justinh:

check your signal quality with femon :-)

[20:19:17]

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[20:19:24]

justinh:

while myth is tuned to the channel(s) you have problems with look at the numbers from femon

[20:20:00]

justinh:

if it's signal related you'll see UNC of non zero, probably high hex numbers – also a high BER which varies a lot

[20:21:30]

Toast:

I'm installing it now.

[20:21:38]

stuartm:

I'm recording right now, but BBC HD was fine yesterday which probably rules out a broadcast problem

[20:22:36]

Toast:

stuartm: I've had the problem for some time, so I very much doubt it's the channel.

[20:22:45]

justinh:

if anybody asks, I'm not adding Roy 'Chubby' Brown info on tmdb for myself

[20:23:52]

stuartm:

justinh: you could have created an account under a pseudonym and avoided the question entirely ;)

[20:24:10]

justinh:

lol yeah true

[20:24:20]

justinh:

well it is under a pseudonym

[20:28:23]

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[20:31:22]

Toast:

femon results. http://pastebin.com/KjwSu2E2 UNC is always non zero, even with working channels. ber is 0 on working channels, but high on BBC HD. SNR is lower on BBC HD. A V is missing from status in BBC HD.

[20:32:19]

justinh:

if UNC is always non-zero.. bad news. UNC == uncorrectable errors

[20:32:31]

justinh:

noisy signal

[20:32:42]

Toast:

Does the number reset ever?

[20:32:47]

justinh:

could be a faulty tuner, bad PSU, LNB.. water in yer coax...

[20:33:05]

justinh:

no it's the # of uncorrectable errors per block or something like that

[20:33:11]

justinh:

not a running tally

[20:33:33]

Toast:

How can unc be high, but ber be 0 on the working channels?

[20:33:44]

justinh:

working channels? oh didn't catch that

[20:34:06]

justinh:

sounds like the driver isn't telling the truth to femon then

[20:34:16]

Toast:

the working channels are SD ones. I have some working HD channels too, but I don't know if they are S2 ones or not.

[20:34:32]

justinh:

or femon doesn't know how to look at dvb-s2 tuner parameters. this is one for the #linuxtv boys

[20:34:45]

Toast:

Grrr... the front end has locked up again. It doesn't really like live tv.

[20:35:02]

Toast:

The working channels are not S2.

[20:35:16]

Toast:

phew... it wasn't locked up, just frozen.

[20:37:19]

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[20:42:27]

Seeker`:

Any problems using a 64-bit backend with a 32-bit frontend?

[20:42:36]

Seeker`:

And any reasons not to use a 64-bit backend?

[20:43:08]

wagnerrp:

no and no

[20:43:14]

Seeker`:

cool

[20:44:08]

wagnerrp:

the only problem with mixed 64-bit and 32-bit hardware is youre still running 32-bit hardware

[20:44:10]

wagnerrp:

:)

[20:44:22]

Seeker`:

heh

[20:44:38]

wagnerrp:

youre going to be hard pressed to handle much HD

[20:45:24]

skd5aner:

huh?

[20:45:46]

wagnerrp:

32-bit hardware means an athlon xp or p4

[20:46:10]

wagnerrp:

my 2600+ is about at its limits handling my ~14Mbps MPEG2

[20:46:11]

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[20:46:12]

skd5aner:

ah, you just mean due to age

[20:46:15]

Seeker`:

My current system is a 64-bit processor, just running a 32-bit OS. Its been running for a couple of years now, I have a feeling when I built it the advice was that 64-bit could be a bit iffy

[20:46:46]

wagnerrp:

64-bit has been the preferred linux architecture for several years now

[20:47:01]

skd5aner:

yea, I was gonna say – depends if you're talking about hardware running a 32-bit OS... but you were refering to old hardware (pre-64-bit capabilities)

[20:47:03]

wagnerrp:

make that amd64 hsa been...

[20:47:33]

wagnerrp:

well i wasnt expecting anyone to actually be running 32-bit on a 64-bit capable system

[20:47:40]

wagnerrp:

such a thing... it makes no sense

[20:48:07]

skd5aner:

I would almost dare to say that more people, today, still run a 32-bit OS on 64-bit capable hardware than the other way around

[20:48:11]

skd5aner:

linux and windows

[20:48:24]

wagnerrp:

well OF COURSE THATS TRUE

[20:48:32]

wagnerrp:

you cant run a 64-bit OS on 32-bit hardware

[20:48:33]

Toast:

it can save some trouble with flash and the like. There are some corner cases like that where 32bit may make sense.

[20:48:54]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: that's not what I said?

[20:49:07]

skd5aner:

well, er... I guess that's how it read though

[20:49:14]

wagnerrp:

Toast: you could say that makes even less sense

[20:49:22]

Seeker`:

when I've got the backend up and running, and all of the media transferred over i'll be wiping the old front/backend and starting again as a fresh frontend

[20:49:27]

wagnerrp:

8-years later, adobe finally releases a 64-bit version

[20:49:34]

skd5aner:

I mean't that more people still run a 32-bit OS instead of a 64-bit one

[20:49:35]

wagnerrp:

its mind boggling as to why it took them so long

[20:49:42]

skd5aner:

... on 64-bit hardware

[20:49:46]

wagnerrp:

with 95% of the work is nothing more than a recompile

[20:49:51]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: :P

[20:50:02]

skd5aner:

you think otherwise?

[20:50:26]

wagnerrp:

as far as linux is concerned, i would say youre wrong

[20:50:37]

wagnerrp:

i think most people with 64-bit hardware are running 64-bit linux

[20:50:50]

wagnerrp:

now for windows? certainly anyone running windows 7 is running the proper version

[20:50:58]

wagnerrp:

vista is probably half and half

[20:51:09]

wagnerrp:

and i doubt anyone is still running 64-bit XP

[20:51:19]

skd5aner:

yea, 64-bit XP was a rarity

[20:51:28]

wagnerrp:

it wasnt really even XP

[20:51:35]

wagnerrp:

it was a hacked up version of Server 2k3

[20:51:45]

skd5aner:

and vista, I saw plenty of OEMs that even shipped 32-bit on 64-bit hardware

[20:51:48]

wagnerrp:

in any case, anyone who was running it did so of their own choice

[20:52:01]

wagnerrp:

and has likely moved on to newer versions and newer hardware

[20:52:17]

wagnerrp:

i dont think any OEMs ever shipped it

[20:52:25]

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[20:52:30]

skd5aner:

how many of the linux distros auto-determine the architecture during install and choose between 32/64?

[20:53:13]

skd5aner:

I mean, ubunutu's download page still defaults to 32-bit

[20:53:14]

skd5aner:

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download

[20:53:19]

skd5aner:

as "recommended"

[20:55:04]

dekarl:

we're rolling out 32bit windows 7 on brand new hardware starting in a month or two to customers... because... no one could tell me something that really made sense but they still do it :(

[20:55:35]

jrr:

in most applications the performance difference isn't significant

[20:55:48]

skd5aner:

Yea, I know my humungous company is rolling out 32-bit Win 7 as the default too, the 64-bit build is limited only to developers who specifically request it

[20:55:56]

jrr:

64-bit can address >4GB of RAM, but all your pointers are twice as big

[20:56:16]

dekarl:

off course PAE is turned off.... so that's up to 3GB total and 2GB per process, yeah :)

[20:56:20]

skd5aner:

that said, the majority of the sever environments have been 64-bit since Server 2003

[20:56:49]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: why arent they going for 64-bit?

[20:56:57]

wagnerrp:

IMHO, win 7 should have only been 64-bit

[20:57:16]

wagnerrp:

the loss of the Core users would have been a shame

[20:57:26]

wagnerrp:

and the loss of the Atom users would have been welcome

[20:57:55]

oopepe:

wagnerrp: Do you know if it is possible let the mythbackend create a preview file for a video via python bindings?

[20:58:03]

dekarl:

wagnerrp: imho, too... but when I tell them to dump all vendors who don't support 64bit after 10 years it's "you're always badmouthing out stuff"...

[20:58:10]

wagnerrp:

how many people running old Ath XPs and pre-EM64T P4 users actually upgraded themselves to 7?

[20:58:31]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: I honestly don't know – I would doubt cost would really go into it. The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to limit support to a single architecture and 32-bit would work on all hardware – that said, they only certify the win 7 build on certain newer hardware anyway

[20:58:52]

sphery:

I just wonder why Win7 and WinVista 64-bit versions have both 32-bit and 64-bit IE in them... Shouldn't MS have just picked one.

[20:58:58]

wagnerrp:

oopepe: you can call the relevant backend command, or you can call mythpreviewgen directly on the command line, but there is no built in capability

[20:59:11]

skd5aner:

I would say, probably just from a legacy standpoint... don't have to worry about any issues with line of business applications or legacy apps that might be impacted by the architecture

[20:59:13]

skd5aner:

just a guess

[20:59:34]

jrr:

browser plugins must be same arch to link against browser

[20:59:38]

sphery:

after all, users shouldn't have to decide (even if all MS does is make it so there's only one icon)

[20:59:49]

skd5aner:

sphery: it was because of plugins

[20:59:58]

sphery:

jrr: yeah, but if there's only one IE, then browser plugins /will/ be the same arch

[21:00:03]

jrr:

what if you have a 32-bit plugin you need, and then one day you also have a 64-bit plugin you need

[21:00:05]

sphery:

users don't care

[21:00:14]

sphery:

users shouldn't have to decide

[21:00:51]

sphery:

after all, drivers have to be the same arch as the system, and that works fine

[21:01:13]

skd5aner:

yea, but for whatever reason MS decided it wasn't worth it to create some kind of translation later for different archs, and up to that point, every plugin was basically 32-bit

[21:01:30]

sphery:

anyway, I'm just upset at stupid tech companies thinking that users want to be sys admins and tech geeks

[21:01:43]

skd5aner:

why they carried that on into windows 7 instead of drawing the line is a good question I guess

[21:02:07]

oopepe:

wagnerrp: What do you mean by call the relevant backend command? Is this possible via python bindigs? Where do i define the backend commands?

[21:02:18]

sphery:

skd5aner: well, they didn't create a translation layer for drivers, and that problem (Vista's complete lack of usability due to crashing caused by bad drivers) worked itself out (once the drivers got better)

[21:02:18]

skd5aner:

sphery: just like the FOSS and linux communities do? :)

[21:02:30]

sphery:

and then they called it "Windows 7"

[21:02:36]

skd5aner:

:)

[21:02:39]

dekarl:

:)

[21:02:44]

sphery:

skd5aner: exactly like the FOSS and Linux communities do

[21:03:02]

sphery:

this is why GNU/Linux will /never/ displace MS Windows

[21:03:08]

wagnerrp:

sphery: actually, QUERY_GENPIXMAP2 only works with ProgramInfo blocks

[21:03:10]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: but still, I'd reckon that the majority of linux installs over the past 0–5 years, are still 32-bit...

[21:03:19]

wagnerrp:

i dont think you could use it with videos

[21:03:20]

sphery:

Windows is generally better at it than we are, but seems they make mistakes, too

[21:03:26]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: a complete guess, but I'd be really curious

[21:03:42]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: and probably not a major majority, but more than not

[21:03:52]

jrr:

I think the smoothest example arch transition is probably apple

[21:04:01]

jrr:

as much as I hate them

[21:04:08]

skd5aner:

jrr: from "universal" to x86?

[21:04:08]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ah, yeah, wasn't sure if it allowed a programinfo for a non-recording video

[21:04:11]

wagnerrp:

sphery: do you know of any other preview generation commands?

[21:04:19]

jrr:

it's also a bit ironic given their tendency to never look back

[21:04:20]

sphery:

guess that will get fixed up after the new schema

[21:04:31]

sphery:

MythXML's uses chanid/starttime, so it's a no go

[21:04:42]

wagnerrp:

i dont think the programinfo struct actually handles stringlists from non-recording videos

[21:04:48]

jams:

skd5aner- http://smolts.org/static/stats/stats.html click on the archs tab

[21:04:55]

skd5aner:

jrr: er, I should say ppc --> universal --> x86

[21:04:59]

wagnerrp:

s/struct/class/

[21:05:06]

skd5aner:

jams: yay! :)

[21:05:12]

jams:

doesn't say new vs old but does say active hosts

[21:05:14]

jrr:

yes, and then --> x86_64

[21:05:28]

sphery:

stua rtm said when he pulled out the preview generator, he made it so it wasn't constrained to only recordings, so it's probably just a matter of fixing up the proto and/or service commands

[21:05:38]

wagnerrp:

jams: 250k different installs?

[21:05:52]

skd5aner:

yea, so 32-bit still rules with about 60/40?

[21:06:02]

jams:

yes

[21:06:19]

jams:

within the last 90 days

[21:06:25]

wagnerrp:

crap

[21:06:26]

wagnerrp:

thats a lot

[21:06:49]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: perhaps your estimates are a bit low

[21:07:37]

sphery:

jams: I'm waiting until 64-bit gets more support... ;)

[21:07:46]

jams:

hehe

[21:07:59]

skd5aner:

is this counting just knoppmyth/linhes users or something else?

[21:08:04]

wagnerrp:

146k installs of F15, another 50k of F14

[21:08:11]

jams:

i still run myth on 32 bit stuff, but finally got everything else over to 64 bit

[21:08:27]

wagnerrp:

and a smattering of other fedora, suse, and centos installs

[21:08:36]

jams:

skd5aner- it's the general smolt client, but it mostly applys to fedora/redhat users

[21:08:58]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: I think part of the problem is that people still run an architecture of a distro the installed years ago – and ttbomk, many distros make it impossible to migrate from 32-bit to 64-bit without a complete reinstall of the OS

[21:09:07]

sphery:

I actually have one 32-bit host (my remote backend) on an Athlon XP 2400+ that's giving me MCEs... Got the new hardware in a box next to it--just need to swap the mobo/ram/cpu, then I'd be able to switch it to 64-bit

[21:09:17]

wagnerrp:

jams: it will be interesting to see the numbers now that were gathering a system-wide UUID

[21:09:26]

wagnerrp:

to find out just how many unique systems there are

[21:09:46]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: yea, but this isn't mythtv users in this report (right jams)?

[21:09:57]

jams:

yeah it will be, and we can start collecting that data once the new myth server is re-imaged

[21:10:16]

wagnerrp:

oh...

[21:10:17]

jams:

skd5aner- nothing myth about smolts.org, it's the general client

[21:10:23]

wagnerrp:

well crap, that makes sense

[21:10:34]

skd5aner:

yea... this isn't the LinHES/Knoppmyth smolts report

[21:10:46]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: that's here – http://smolt.mythvantage.com/

[21:10:52]

wagnerrp:

http://smolt.mythtv.org/statuc/stats/stats.html

[21:10:54]

jrr:

I think all my systems are 64 now

[21:10:58]

wagnerrp:

thats here: ^^^^

[21:11:02]

wagnerrp:

:)

[21:11:17]

wagnerrp:

actually, my link is 0.25 users only

[21:11:19]

skd5aner:

ah yes, got moved

[21:11:21]

skd5aner:

yea

[21:11:45]

wagnerrp:

strangely, a lot of debian sid users

[21:12:05]

sphery:

heh, I still don't get that

[21:12:24]

skd5aner:

what's interesting in that report though wagnerrp is that 64 bit is almost 70%... BUT, there's only 63 total count :)

[21:12:32]

skd5aner:

and I would expect the majority of them to be devs

[21:12:53]

skd5aner:

which would make sense – recent hardware, general knowledge and understanding of 64-bit arch, etc

[21:13:06]

jams:

debian sid is probably MythBuntu, as the OS detection was flawed when it came to Ubuntu systems.

[21:13:22]

wagnerrp:

two users with under 512MB of memory

[21:13:27]

jams:

that has since been corrected

[21:13:32]

sphery:

take Debian, add in all the license-/patent-/... questionable or completely-violating-Debian's-guidelines stuff that's required to install/run MythTV and you end up with basically Mythbuntu

[21:13:37]

sphery:

so why not just start with Mythbuntu

[21:13:56]

wagnerrp:

3 users with more than 8GB of memory

[21:14:03]

sphery:

after all, you've already compromised the principles on which Debian is based, so it's not like you're really running "pure" Debian, anymore

[21:14:46]

wagnerrp:

13 users running systems under 4k bogomips

[21:14:56]

dekarl:

sphery: because Knoppix is a stronger brand over here, so people used KnoppMyth?

[21:15:02]

skd5aner:

total hosts 2624, but only 63 active in last 90 days

[21:15:11]

wagnerrp:

which likely means Atom users

[21:15:13]

laga:

does anyone know the difference between "full rgb" and "limited rgb" levels in nvidia-settings? is one for studio levels? it should be, but it doesn't seem to be working as such ;)

[21:15:19]

wagnerrp:

or old P4/AthXP users

[21:15:42]

dekarl:

laga: isn't studio levels for YUV?

[21:16:00]

wagnerrp:

one user running kernel 2.6.40?

[21:16:06]

wagnerrp:

lies!

[21:16:07]

sphery:

heh, KnoppMyth and LinHES are fine, too--it's just that starting with "pure" Debian and then adding the stuff you need for MythTV makes no sense to me

[21:16:16]

sphery:

wagnerrp: how many with 3.x?

[21:16:25]

skd5aner:

sphery: it's what I did back in 2003 :)

[21:16:27]

laga:

dekarl: no. HDMI also uses that, it seems..

[21:16:32]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, nope. rhea 6 is sticking with 2.6.x kernels and numbering up

[21:16:32]

wagnerrp:

zero

[21:16:40]

jams:

skd5aner- a good chunk of those are old linhes users, that still report back to hardware.mythvantage.com The DB at mythtv.org started off as a copy.

[21:17:08]

skd5aner:

sphery: I used FreeBSD and Debian – so I went with debian when trying to learn mythtv – not that it was extremely fun to do

[21:17:16]

stuartm:

kormoc: for what possible reason?

[21:17:22]

skd5aner:

but that's why I landed over in ubuntu land I guess

[21:17:37]

sphery:

yeah, I just think it makes more sense to use Mythbuntu--granted in 2003, that wasn't an option, so I'll give you a pass on it ;)

[21:17:37]

kormoc:

stuartm, to keep compatibility with software that expects a 2.6.x kernel

[21:17:41]

stuartm:

other than a desire to be contrary and confuse everyone

[21:18:23]

stuartm:

kormoc: that's the sort of screwed up logic MS always used

[21:18:28]

sphery:

stuartm: gcc 2.96?

[21:18:43]

sphery:

it's in their blood--they just have to cause confusion and grief :)

[21:18:44]

wagnerrp:

9 users running ext2, 9 more running something FUSE

[21:19:36]

sphery:

wonder how many choose their file systems and how many just take what the distro does

[21:19:39]

wagnerrp:

Pieterlight.1920.1080?

[21:20:07]

dekarl:

laga: google helped me. you can have video/full range for RGB, too. was new for me. but use whatever your tv accepts. (after I got bitten by ATI cards messing up VUY/RGB handshake via DVI->HDMI adapter that's the best hint I got. use what works well :)

[21:20:32]

wagnerrp:

one user running mythbookmarkmanager

[21:20:36]

wagnerrp:

another user running mythphone

[21:20:53]

skd5aner:

or something called mythphone

[21:21:07]

wagnerrp:

jams: how does this thing check plugins, just enumerate files in the plugin directory?

[21:21:26]

jams:

yes, but i'm not for sure thats in the new client

[21:21:35]

jams:

that was the old one

[21:21:46]

wagnerrp:

well its still the old server

[21:22:03]

jams:

old server yes, but the new client may not be reporting it

[21:22:04]

laga:

dekarl: heh, yeah. Philips support told me today the TV can't do full range even in "pc mode", which is – as I've now found out – completely wrong. so i'm in analysis paralysis a bit. I guess I'll sleep over it

[21:22:12]

skd5aner:

so your link, wagnerrp, is only limited to people using master correct? and the other link (http://smolt.mythvantage.com/static/stats/stats.html) is people using linhes/knoppmyth, right?

[21:22:31]

jams:

guess all i'm saying, is the data there for the plugins is from the old client

[21:22:38]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: should be, yes

[21:22:41]

skd5aner:

so, knoppmyth/linhes is completely 32-bit? http://smolt.mythvantage.com/static/stats/stats.html

[21:23:06]

wagnerrp:

it would seem so

[21:23:07]

jams:

skd5aner- yes knoppmyth/linhes is only 32 bit. {For now}

[21:23:13]

wagnerrp:

no knoppmyth users left though

[21:23:14]

skd5aner:

i686 - 362 active clients - 100.0 %

[21:23:22]

skd5aner:

yea, scarce

[21:23:45]

jams:

I checked the cpu's and the overwhelming majority of them are 64 bit

[21:24:06]

jams:

that was a raw db query..you won't see it on the web page

[21:24:18]

skd5aner:

mythbuntu defaults to 32-bit and a user would have to manually go to advanced options to try and download a 64-bit version – http://www.mythbuntu.org/downloads

[21:24:34]

jams:

although there were a couple p3 and p4 in the list. p3 really suprised me

[21:24:45]

** wagnerrp is typing on a P3 **

[21:25:24]

wagnerrp:

vfat... eew

[21:25:31]

wagnerrp:

reiserfs...

[21:25:35]

stuartm:

flash drive

[21:25:45]

skd5aner:

MythDora makes you manully browse the mirrors directory structure to choose between i386 and x86_64

[21:25:52]

wagnerrp:

hfsplus? why would you be using an Apple formatted disk and run linhes?

[21:26:40]

jams:

i assumed that was for ppl running on a mini, and dual booted or something

[21:27:56]

wagnerrp:

mythsmolt was installed as a plugin?

[21:28:23]

skd5aner:

I think I made the full time switch to 64-bit linux back in 2007

[21:28:43]

jams:

wagnerrp- yes for linhes it started life as a plugin

[21:29:37]

jams:

it was easier that way then maintaining a patch

[21:29:58]

skd5aner:

it's interesting... in the linhes report, "unknown" plugins is 2, but in the mythtv master report, unknown plugins is 22... some skunkworks projects going on out there in dev land ;)

[21:30:00]

wagnerrp:

it had a full ui and everything?

[21:30:04]

jams:

yep

[21:30:57]

jams:

it showed you the privacy policy, displayed what was going to be sent before sedning it. Let you remove the profile or view it in mythbrowser.

[21:31:07]

jams:

Showed the errata if one was present

[21:31:59]

jams:

granted it was nothing but a glorified log viewer with a menu and some buttons. But it worked

[21:34:39]

stuartm:

while we're talking about smolt, my frontend has started issuing this error – http://pastebin.com/35tkvpLe

[21:36:01]

wagnerrp:

seems youre missing the hardware ID database

[21:50:56]

stuartm:

well that was careless of me

[21:51:21]

wagnerrp:

i dont recall off hand what package normally carries that stuff

[21:51:26]

stuartm:

does it respond by name if I call it? Maybe I can get it to come back

[21:53:01]

wagnerrp:

honestly, that was a blind guess

[21:53:05]

wagnerrp:

jams would know more

[21:54:12]

jams:

you were correct

[21:54:29]

jams:

it looks in /usr/share/hwdata and then /usr/share/misc for the files

[21:55:06]

jams:

pci.ids or pci.ids.gz

[21:56:56]

skd5aner:

jams, stuartm: should that become a pre-req for ./configure to check for and packagers to include?

[21:58:31]

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[22:04:44]

stuartm:

/usr/share/pci.ids

[22:05:01]

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[22:05:44]

justinh:

wow adding stuff to tmdb is habit forming

[22:05:51]

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[22:05:54]

justinh:

& slow going when you have cover images to make

[22:06:06]

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[22:06:08]

skd5aner:

justinh: that's how I feel about musicbrainz

[22:06:10]

stuartm:

make?

[22:06:17]

me is now known as Guest46499

[22:06:36]

skd5aner:

justinh: I've just done a little bit with ttvdb, nothing with tmdb yet

[22:06:44]

justinh:

yeah... because the covers that can be er.. found.. aren't the right blimmin dimensions so they need to be reworked

[22:07:10]

justinh:

dunno what the official guidelines are but I put DVD covers in 2:3 aspect

[22:08:07]

skd5aner:

I don't know about tmdb, but on ttvdb, they're very strict about dimensions

[22:08:16]

justinh:

so I end up having to remove the background & redo it like this http://cf1.imgobject.com/posters/a92/4e4d8abf . . . original.jpg

[22:08:30]

justinh:

not so bad when it's a solid colour

[22:08:31]

sphery:

justinh: making cover images? why not just take a snap of the DVD cover from a weird angle? ;)

[22:09:01]

justinh:

not a fan of the comedian – it's going in for completeness' sakes

[22:09:34]

skd5aner:

lol, wtf is that?

[22:09:37]

wagnerrp:

80% blue?

[22:09:55]

justinh:

yeah only 80%

[22:10:00]

justinh:

blue.. sweary

[22:10:07]

wagnerrp:

sweary...

[22:10:13]

justinh:

offensive, racist.. misogynist..

[22:10:18]

wagnerrp:

ive never heard blue refer to that

[22:10:28]

justinh:

must be a British thing then

[22:10:29]

wagnerrp:

yeah, know what sweary means, just not blue

[22:10:50]

justinh:

we have an expression.. turning the air blue ;)

[22:11:03]

wagnerrp:

there is 'blue collar', which implies rough working class folk

[22:11:10]

iamlindoro:

blue is used in american dialect, it's just a tiny bit archaic

[22:11:20]

iamlindoro:

(here, anyway)

[22:11:50]

justinh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribaldry#Blue_comedy

[22:12:09]

justinh:

or.. in this case.. just not very funny at all

[22:12:13]

skd5aner:

although not a poster, I do like when people add a profiled, angled via of the DVD box – I tend to pick those as the coverart in mythvideo for movies – like this one: http://cf1.imgobject.com/posters/3a9/4bc91103 . . . original.png

[22:12:26]

justinh:

skd5aner: DEATH TO THOSE PEOPLE

[22:12:41]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: are you making a joke?

[22:12:55]

stuartm:

skd5aner: and I spend all my time downvoting those so that I don't get them

[22:12:55]

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[22:13:03]

justinh:

sure if they all looked like that

[22:13:11]

justinh:

or they all had an alternative

[22:13:24]

stuartm:

skd5aner: TMDB was going to make it policy that DVD covers could not be uploaded as 'posters', because they aren't the same thing

[22:13:26]

skd5aner:

sorry guys, not a joke – just personal preference

[22:13:51]

skd5aner:

stuartm: that, I can understand – perhaps they shouldn't be catagorized as such

[22:13:57]

stuartm:

and those screw up any similar effects that you might implement in the theme

[22:14:34]

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[22:14:39]

skd5aner:

justinh: and yes, I agree, the fact that there not there for most movies means it's kinda pointless to only have it for some and not others

[22:14:39]

stuartm:

skd5aner: the idea of having a separate dvd cover category was proposed, it just never gained traction

[22:14:44]

justinh:

anyway, I was never a fan of Chubby Brown but there was one thing I heard him come out with that made me spit my drink out in laughing... "been to the doctor... he says "Roy, I'm afraid to have to tell you it's all true. You *are* what you eat". Oh, says I. That must make me a c***

[22:14:52]

skd5aner:

looks goofy when going through the library and some are traditional posters and others are box shots

[22:15:26]

justinh:

skd5aner: hey why not just do the code & have mythtv bend the cover around a box model? :D

[22:15:31]

skd5aner:

but, although it might not be a popular opinion, as it sounds, I do like the 3d look versus the flat poster look in the library... sorry :S

[22:15:32]

stuartm:

or unedited posters with all the text (which I prefer) against ones where people have edited them to remove all the text (sometimes badly)

[22:16:07]

justinh:

skd5aner: oh don't get me wrong I like the effect, but it's a big imposition of style

[22:16:25]

justinh:

give us flat images then we can do whatever we like with them in the program :)

[22:16:26]

wagnerrp:

justinh: i wouldnt mind seeing a system where TMDB had the full unfolded cover, front side and back

[22:16:33]

justinh:

oh yeah

[22:16:35]

wagnerrp:

and leave it up to the application to do with it as it wanted

[22:16:37]

stuartm:

skd5aner: that's fine, but we are aiming to allow the themer to do that sort of thing and having the images pre-rendered like that means it wouldn't work

[22:16:41]

skd5aner:

stuartm: yes, it would not work if you were trying to post-process some effect in the theme, but the themes I use now don't do that – but if a new theme in the future did it'd kinda suck if the artwork I had would need to be replaced, but that'd be my fault

[22:17:08]

wagnerrp:

the front is always going to be the same dimensions

[22:17:10]

justinh:

how many things have those covers anyway? not ran into many

[22:17:19]

wagnerrp:

so the application could figure out the thickness from the aspect ratio

[22:17:31]

stuartm:

justinh: most are deleted as they are found by moderators

[22:17:34]

wagnerrp:

and either chop off everything but the front, or wrap it

[22:17:46]

justinh:

so who'll pay for the extra bandwidth & space ? ;)

[22:18:14]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: +1 (full unfolded cover) – that'd be a great idea

[22:18:21]

justinh:

hmm apparently tmdb doesn't think I added 'it came from outer space' anymore

[22:19:22]

skd5aner:

sorry – I'm a slow reader today, and lots of comments all at once....

[22:20:06]

skd5aner:

but yea, I totally understand the reservations – and the idea that flat posters offer more flexibility with style and effects, but right now those styles and effects are non-existant :)

[22:20:29]

justinh:

right now anything with an angle will look like ass in my theme :P

[22:20:31]

skd5aner:

or, at least, aren't leveraged yet

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[22:23:21]

skd5aner:

justinh: how far along are you – just tinkering with something for yourself?

[22:23:26]

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[22:27:21]

justinh:

erm... I'm using it every day but improving it all the time

[22:27:40]

justinh:

and er.. wow that kaleidescape UI looks like something else

[22:28:28]

wagnerrp:

and it costs something else too

[22:28:45]

wagnerrp:

several appendages and a vital organ

[22:29:44]

wagnerrp:

but hey, youll be able to watch your content from anywhere within viewing distance of your bathtub full of ice

[22:30:54]

skd5aner:

kaleidescape? http://www.kaleidescape.com/ that?

[22:32:01]

wagnerrp:

the 'disk vault' is a most amusing concept

[22:32:33]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt do anything but securely hold the disks, and be expensive while doing so

[22:32:49]

wagnerrp:

lest you rip the content, and then return it to the rental store

[22:33:10]

wagnerrp:

good lord, have you seen the prices on that hardware?

[22:33:11]

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[22:33:19]

wagnerrp:

who is going to spend $20K on a system

[22:33:21]

sphery:

I'm looking for the prices, but can't find them?

[22:33:24]

wagnerrp:

and then fill it with stolen media

[22:33:24]

sphery:

wow

[22:33:41]

justinh:

the prices are house-sellingly expensive

[22:34:29]

Twiggy2cents:

You know, I love the unix highlight/middle mouse button copy paste. But it sucks if I want to paste something over something else

[22:34:57]

Twiggy2cents:

Or if I highlight it to delete the whole line(like say a URL) then try to paste the other url in there.

[22:35:06]

wagnerrp:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kaleidescape-KSERVER- . . . em2a10a909f4

[22:35:21]

jams:

wagnerrp- played with one for a bit...there is nothing fancy about it

[22:35:58]

Twiggy2cents:

wagnerrp, that is freaking expensive. What is it meant for? I want to offer $100

[22:35:58]

wagnerrp:

jams: well it has that fancy 'explode all your media, and reorganize' function

[22:35:59]

sphery:

did you find any screenshots?

[22:36:04]

sphery:

I'm still wondering about the UI comment

[22:36:08]

wagnerrp:

i think thats what justinh is talking about

[22:38:01]

justinh:

youtube

[22:38:10]

justinh:

their UI is very very nice

[22:38:24]

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[22:38:35]

wagnerrp:

i would show a video, but youtube is barfing currently

[22:38:40]

justinh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PlUIw8vKhU&feature=related

[22:38:41]

wagnerrp:

i cant seek to the time point i want

[22:40:01]

wagnerrp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iEFhqaWpGk#t=1m55s

[22:41:51]

wagnerrp:

its basically mythtv without recording

[22:42:33]

wagnerrp:

you have 1U and 3U servers, with four and 13 disk cartridges, respectively

[22:42:45]

wagnerrp:

you can have multiple of each

[22:43:00]

wagnerrp:

you have disk vaults to store the DVDs (you cant play them without them stored)

[22:43:10]

xris:

hmm. to do or not to do.. 3T hard drive upgrade for the myth\box...

[22:43:13]

wagnerrp:

and then you have frontends scattered around the house that stream from the servers

[22:43:41]

justinh:

wagnerrp: yeah but the UI... they've got metadata coming out of their ears the way they treat it too

[22:43:52]

justinh:

all directions mythtv is headed though, I know :)

[22:44:08]

justinh:

dunno if I'm a fan of the coverart dance though

[22:44:26]

justinh:

but smooth scrolling, collapsing areas.. that's good stuff IMHO

[22:45:40]

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[22:46:51]

wagnerrp:

basically, the disk vault is their way of getting around the DVD CCA licensing stuff

[22:47:05]

wagnerrp:

you need the disk, and only one use at a time

[22:47:20]

wagnerrp:

so its effectively no different from playing the disk directly

[22:47:29]

justinh:

they sell collections too

[22:47:42]

sphery:

yeah, didn't someone do that a while back with a mass-market retail product?

[22:47:48]

sphery:

I was thinking it was a Sony thing

[22:48:13]

wagnerrp:

kaleidescape, there was a big dust up about it like 7–8 years ago

[22:48:29]

wagnerrp:

the CCA wanted to revoke their license, but they sued to keep it or something

[22:48:49]

sphery:

no, I'm talking best buy/circuit city kind of mass market

[22:48:55]

sphery:

I saw one in BB

[22:48:59]

wagnerrp:

ok, not that im aware of

[22:49:07]

wagnerrp:

sony sold big DVD changers

[22:49:09]

wagnerrp:

i have one

[22:49:25]

wagnerrp:

its a DVD player strapped to a 300+1 disk carousel

[22:51:39]

wagnerrp:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-h6savmpHz4q/p_15 . . . -CX875P.html

[22:52:25]

sphery:

yeah, I don't remember whose it was, but it was a dvd ripper that had to keep the discs inside it because of licensing

[22:52:36]

sphery:

I laughed when I saw it at best buy

[22:52:49]

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[22:52:56]

sphery:

anyway, don't think I'll be able to find it, now

[22:53:09]

sphery:

it's been years (like back when 500GB HDD was expensive)

[22:55:01]

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[22:55:50]

justinh:

they say it's now legal to rip in the UK.. but have said nothing about undoing encryption :-\

[22:56:11]

justinh:

and on that bombshell.. it's bedtime for me

[22:56:16]

justinh:

way past it infact

[22:58:53]

Seeker`:

justinh: I thought there was just a recommendation to make it legal

[23:01:08]

Twiggy2cents:

ugh when is the good shows of cw going to start...

[23:01:13]

Twiggy2cents:

sphery, do you know?

[23:01:24]

Twiggy2cents:

s/is/are/

[23:02:22]

sphery:

Twiggy2cents: heh, not sure, but I hope it's soon

[23:02:26]

sphery:

I miss my Supernatural

[23:02:57]

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[23:04:37]

sphery:

oooh, Charisma Carpenter and James Marsters (from Buffy) are coming to Supernatural S7

[23:05:26]

Twiggy2cents:

I really hope it doesnt suck... (I am sure it wont though)

[23:05:42]

sphery:

heh, I have 6 seasons of reasons to believe it will be good :)

[23:05:54]

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[23:06:00]

sphery:

(and I have to admit I really like Sera Gamble's work on it)

[23:06:03]

Twiggy2cents:

I think after you have watched 6 seasons, it could blow but you would still watch it and wait for the next

[23:06:31]

wagnerrp:

you would think that, but ive managed to drop shows after that long

[23:07:03]

sphery:

heh, I loved Lost S1, watched S2–4 waiting for the next, loved S5, and then was very disappointed by S6

[23:07:23]

sphery:

actually, S6 was pretty good--but the last couple episodes were very disappointing

[23:07:36]

Twiggy2cents:

I love the way supernatural is now with all the suspense and all, but I think the best season is season one. There was so much evil variety and it was actually more "scary" which is what the show was supposed to be.

[23:07:58]

sphery:

Yeah, S1 was good. They had money, so they had a seriously good soundtrack

[23:08:03]

sphery:

and it was all new and different

[23:08:30]

sphery:

seems with any show, the more "mythology" you get, the more constraints there are on your enjoyment

[23:08:51]

oopepe:

Hi, what exactly does mythpreviewgen do? Where can i find a docu for it? Can i use it to generate a screenshot for any video file on my filesystem?

[23:09:56]

sphery:

oopepe: that's the program that takes screenshots of the recordings for use by mythtv... we were talking about it, and it seems that there's no support in mythbackend or the python bindings for getting them made automatically, but in theory you could call mythpreviewgen directly

[23:10:04]

sphery:

best help for it is likely mythpreviewgen --help

[23:10:21]

Twiggy2cents:

I will say though, they do their studying on the characters. I was really surprised when I looked up key people like Lillith that there is story behind it and it is not just someone they made up.

[23:10:38]

sphery:

oopepe: (no support for getting them made automatically for non-recording videos, that is)

[23:11:02]

sphery:

Twiggy2cents: yeah, that's what I love the most about it--and why I loved Buffy and Angel and Stargate

[23:11:16]

sphery:

I love any modern story with a new take on old mythology

[23:11:34]

Twiggy2cents:

I hated the ending to angel

[23:11:42]

Twiggy2cents:

It was so.... anti climatic

[23:12:12]

oopepe:

sphery: Thanks. Il see if i can make mythpreviewgen to do what i want.

[23:13:54]

Twiggy2cents:

I have been watching the charmed series lately(I was force to watch a few episodes by the wife and now I am hooked). It isnt supernatural, but it is a good replacement until it starts again.

[23:15:38]

sphery:

oh, yeah, that's another one that did it

[23:15:43]

sphery:

I used to watch it, too

[23:16:25]

wagnerrp:

admit it, you watched it for the outfits

[23:16:34]

Twiggy2cents:

I hadnt ever seen it before now. But thanks to netflix it is on when ever I like. I am on season 5 of 8.

[23:16:46]

Twiggy2cents:

No of course not.... just the THO

[23:17:04]

Twiggy2cents:

That place must of been 60* or something

[23:17:10]

wagnerrp:

(i was implying what was under the outfits)

[23:21:29]

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[23:22:33]

Twiggy2cents:

You know now that you mentioned it, they did have big boobs....

[23:23:53]

wagnerrp:

dont all hollywood witches?

[23:24:21]

Twiggy2cents:

good point

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[23:39:23]

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[23:42:14]

Beirdo:

today is a Daft Punk day

[23:45:19]

wagnerrp:

as in there are many?

[23:46:03]

Beirdo:

?

[23:46:20]

Beirdo:

nah, just using Daft Punk to drown out the cow-workers

[23:46:36]

wagnerrp:

its "a Daft Punk day"

[23:46:46]

** wagnerrp wonders what a 'cow-worker" is **

[23:46:55]

wagnerrp:

are they large with black spots?

[23:47:25]

Seeker`:

bah, turns out that one of my old drives is completely dead

[23:47:39]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:48:08]

wagnerrp:

you could go into the machine to revive it... using daft punk music

[23:48:09]

Beirdo:

they are the ones that insist on making loud mooing sounds that distract you from your formerly scheduled cud chewing.

[23:48:32]

wagnerrp:

and eurythmics

[23:48:36]

Seeker`:

bad superblock :(

[23:49:35]

sphery:

stupid cbs... one of the Hawaii Five-0 episodes I lost in the HDD crash re-aired on Jul 25 and MythTV re-recorded it--but it was delayed 30min, so I missed the end of it.

[23:49:44]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[23:49:46]

Beirdo:

ooops

[23:50:58]

sphery:

guess I'll catch it next next time around

[23:51:01]

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[23:51:24]

sphery:

so the question is whether to watch the first half and extrapolate or just delete and allow re-record

[23:51:53]

Seeker`:

watch the first half, then delete + rerecord

[23:52:59]

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[23:53:13]

wagnerrp:

delete

[23:56:20]

sphery:

ah, great... some help you guys are--it's a tie vote

[23:56:35]

sphery:

wait a minute... is wagnerrp's chad hanging?

[23:57:33]

wagnerrp:

ill have you know, i am fully clothed

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