MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (154):

adante, aloril, andreax, Anduin, AndyCap, antgel, anykey_, Azelphur, Beirdo, benc_, bindi_, BLZbubba, BLZbubba_, brfransen, cafuego, chainsawbike, ChanServ, CiaranG, ComradeHaz`, Cougar, dagar, Dave123, Dave123-road, davide_, dekarl, DeviceZer0, dewman, dlblog, dmz, dougl, earthnative, EvilGuru, exelnet, felipe`, Floppe, G, ghoti, Gibby, gigem_, grantm, gregL, GreyFoxx, grumpydevil, hackman_, hadees, hashbang, Heliwr, highzeth, Hoochster, hoolio, iamlindoro, ikonia, J-e-f-f-A, j-rod|afk, jams, jarle, jbrett, jcarlos, JEDIDIAH___, johnf1911, jpabq, jrr, jstenback, justdave, justinh, jya, k-man, kabtoffe, KaZeR, kc, keith4, kloeri, knightr, kormoc_afk, kth, kurre2, kwmonroe, LabMonkey, laga, lapion, larrikin, LedHed, Loshki, lotia-away, M0nk3Ee, mag0o, MavT, Meliorator, Metoer, MilkBoy, MissionCritical, MitchCapper, MMlosh, Muzer, mycosys, MythLogBot, mzb, NewBuntu81, NickHu, nooneami, npm, NRGizeR, NULL[0], nutron, okolsi, oobe, paistis, Patina, peterpops, pigeon, PointyPumper, purserj, quentusrex_, quicksilver, rclark, sailerboy, Scopeuk-AFK, Seeker`, Shadow__X, sid3windr, simcop2387, skd5aner, Slasher`, Soul_keeper, sphery, squidly, sraue, StevenR, straterra, stuartm, styelz, Sulx, sutula, tank-man, Technophil, thefRont, ThisNewGuy, tlhiv_laptop, tomimo, toorima, tris, trumee, Twiggy2cents, TyposuAway, ubIx, Unhelpful, unixSnob, uW, wahrhaft, waxhead, xris, zCougar, _abbenormal, _charly__

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Details:
    datetime:  2011-08-18 00:28:14 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
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    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120

Error at /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 120:
htmlentities() [function.htmlentities]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument


Details:
    datetime:  2011-08-18 00:28:14 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities() [<a href='function.htmlentities'>function.htmlentities</a>]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120
Wednesday, August 17th, 2011, 00:15 UTC
[00:15:58] brockp (brockp!~brockp@108-65-202-7.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[00:16:51] brockp: So new soundcard arrived for new frontend, its a Xonar DX, I see gone are the days of pointing at /dev/dsp and having a go,
[00:17:12] brockp: I have working sound my audio output device is set to ALSA:surround51:CARD=DX,DEV=0
[00:17:23] new_tolinux: hi
[00:17:38] brockp: My question is mixers, Myth can't control the volume unless I set the mixer device to software
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[00:19:49] brockp: If I set the mixder device to ALSA:default and Mixer controls to Master, it lets me control the volume but it is very very laggy, like video freezes when I change volume for a second, the volume bar jumps, rather than scrolls smoothly like the software mixer device, any idea why this would be?
[00:22:28] new_tolinux: personally: no.... the only thing I've got working until now is mythtv 0.21
[00:23:18] Statts: hi all, would I be losing any major features rolling back to 0.23?
[00:24:02] Statts: (backend on dedicated machine, xbmc as frontend on another machine)
[00:27:39] stuartm: Statts: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.24#mythbackend
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[00:28:44] stuartm: note that fixes aren't backported to 0.23, that's a dead branch, so any bugs that get fixed in 0.24 will go unfixed in 0.23
[00:29:02] Statts: ok
[00:29:26] Statts: main reason for thinking of rolliung back is http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=MythTV_PVR_Addon
[00:29:30] stuartm: the majority of work these days goes on the frontend, so the changes between 0.23 and 0.24 as far as the backend goes are minor
[00:30:41] Statts: ok
[00:31:26] Statts: would it perhaps be smarter to install mythtv frontend on my xbmc machine and script to launch it from xbmc?
[00:31:55] stuartm: Statts: just be aware that we don't support XBMC, if you want to use it as a frontend instead of the official MythTV frontend then you need to seek help from them if you have problems
[00:33:16] stuartm: Statts: you could do that, assuming that you require xbmc for a feature MythTV doesn't offer
[00:34:48] ** stuartm is off to bed **
[00:35:15] ** new_tolinux too... rolling back 9.04/0.21 and gone **
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[00:36:02] stuartm: 0.21? wow, that's old
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[00:41:01] Statts: stuartm, I'm a big fan of the xbmc media management, and data fetching features
[00:41:30] Statts: also, I have just moved to xbmc from windows media center, so a move to another os would cause a massive shift in WAF :S
[00:42:44] skd5aner: If you've just moved to xbmc, then learning something "new" again won't be that bad
[00:54:36] wagnerrp: Statts: mythtv has much of those same data fetching features
[00:54:57] wagnerrp: what in particular are you looking for that mythtv doesnt have?
[00:55:33] Statts: nothing in particular, I havent side-by-sided them
[00:55:41] Statts: just recently moved, and we both like it
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[01:07:41] brockp: how do I check if a plugin was writtin using MythUI rather than the old UI ?
[01:08:26] brockp: <!DOCTYPE mythuitheme SYSTEM "http://www.mythtv.org/schema/mythuitheme.dtd"> ?
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[01:41:49] skd5aner: brockp: which plugin?
[01:42:19] skd5aner: brockp: all plugins, except mythmusic, have been fully converted to mythui (official plugins that is)
[01:42:56] brockp: Its thirdparty
[01:42:59] brockp: mythpandora
[01:43:22] brockp: I patched it to make it work again, but the UI leaves a little to be desired, when running anything other than the classic template
[01:45:46] JEDIDIAH___: usually WAF is negatively impacted by ANY change. even changing the theme can be a problem.
[01:46:30] Statts: I hear ya
[01:47:06] wagnerrp: brockp: mythpandora was written for MythTV 0.24
[01:47:15] wagnerrp: that means it was almost certainly written for the new UI
[01:47:38] wagnerrp: the first commit was only 8 months ago
[01:47:48] brockp: coolio, so just needs some tweaking for the tempaltes, volume adjusts when you press the keys, but no UI for it,
[01:47:50] wagnerrp: of course the last commit was only seven days later
[01:48:02] brockp: Will see what I can whip together and see if I can get the guy to pull my repo
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[01:50:06] wagnerrp: brockp: you may want to check out pianobar as well
[01:50:32] brockp: mythpandra uses pianobar, that was part of the fix was updating pianobar
[01:50:32] wagnerrp: seems there have been a lot of commits on it since mythpandora was written
[01:50:56] wagnerrp: yeah, thats what i was getting at
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[02:34:58] BLZbubba_: is it possible to play dts-cd's with mythtv?
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[02:41:58] wagnerrp: such a beast exists?
[02:43:44] BLZbubba_: yes indeed
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[02:44:21] iamlindoro: I keep my discs right next to my Virtual Boy
[02:44:50] wagnerrp: i thought all retail audio disks were lossless
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[02:46:17] wagnerrp: SACD used some funky DSD format
[02:46:24] wagnerrp: DVDA used standard LPCM
[02:46:45] wagnerrp: everything else were just different mastering processes for standard CD
[02:48:06] sphery: CD's may be lossless, but are they /high definition/?
[02:48:31] sphery: if it's not HD, it's not worth listening to
[02:48:36] wagnerrp: that depends on what you are looking at through the reflection
[02:48:56] sphery: and rap in surround sound is great--it's like someone is swearing at you from 7.1 directions at once!
[02:48:58] wagnerrp: if you are using it as a mirror to watch an HDTV, thats high definition
[02:49:13] wagnerrp: if you are using it as a mirror to watch an old tube, thats only standard definition
[02:49:25] sphery: heh
[02:49:36] iamlindoro: You know what this CD needs... a lossy audio codec and artificial upmixing!
[02:49:49] sphery: ooh, yeah!
[02:49:56] wagnerrp: would a lossy audio codec need upmixing?
[02:49:59] sphery: we could up-mix it to 8 tracks
[02:50:15] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: Most of the content started as 2 channels is what I'm getting at
[02:50:26] sphery: and somehow record it to a tape that never ends... like a snake eating its own tail
[02:50:57] wagnerrp: quadrophonic FTW!
[02:51:38] sphery: good thing the Europeans are asleep or they'd have no idea what we're talking about
[02:53:02] wagnerrp: anti-piracy lawyers bring suit against blind man for illegally downloading porn
[02:54:01] [R]: well he woudn't know what he was downloading
[02:54:05] [R]: so he could have downloaded porn
[02:54:29] wagnerrp: there are braille terminals
[02:55:16] [R]: lol
[02:57:09] sphery: maybe he was testing Disney's new haptics tech...
[02:57:46] sphery: http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/08/disney-looks . . . -technology/
[03:01:39] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: so what exactly are people protesting about in SF?
[03:02:03] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: You mean Oakland, maybe?
[03:02:16] iamlindoro: PO'd at BART Police still
[03:02:28] bruderbell: My recorded content suddenly won't show in mythfrontend, but it does show and play via mythweb. Any ideas?
[03:02:39] wagnerrp: i see mentions of protests, i see they cut off cell access to prevent protests, i see further protests about the cell phones being cut off to prevent protests
[03:02:47] wagnerrp: ive never seen any mention of why this all started
[03:02:52] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: yeah, BART PD
[03:03:07] iamlindoro: a few years ago a BART PD officer shot a guy in the back thinking he had drawn his taser
[03:03:21] iamlindoro: guilty on a manslaughter charge, went free a few months ago
[03:03:30] iamlindoro: not sure why it flared up again now, to be honest
[03:04:19] wagnerrp: so theyre protesting an event that happened years ago, and someone was actually sent to jail over?
[03:04:34] wagnerrp: wtf...
[03:04:37] iamlindoro: It's a race thing
[03:05:03] iamlindoro: Because the cop is white and deceased is black, and he only went away for a couple of years, the community considers it a miscarraige of justice
[03:05:27] wagnerrp: but all the protesters in the images ive seen are... white
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[03:05:52] iamlindoro: Not the stuff I've seen
[03:06:00] iamlindoro: but dunno
[03:06:02] iamlindoro: I just work here
[03:07:25] iamlindoro: Looks like it was riled up again when BART shot a homeless guy last month
[03:07:55] iamlindoro: And suspect the nationwide news is because of the involvement of Anonymous
[03:08:38] ** wagnerrp suggests they come to cincinnati to see how a race "protest" is handled **
[03:08:44] wagnerrp: :)
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[03:09:34] wagnerrp: its funny
[03:09:38] bruderbell: Any ideas why my mythfrontend, hosted on the same machine as backend, would suddenly stop "seeing" all my recorded content?
[03:09:50] wagnerrp: youll still never see a white cop downtown unless theyre paired up with a black cop
[03:10:10] wagnerrp: bruderbell: probably managed to set one of the filters
[03:10:16] wagnerrp: see the 'm' menu in 'watch recordings'
[03:10:28] bruderbell: will attempt
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[03:11:35] bruderbell: Alas, it is set to show all programs
[03:11:58] sphery: But, hey, Anonymous showed them... Releasing the personal details of a couple thousand innocent bystanders. Now I'm sure BART will never be bad, again.
[03:12:15] bruderbell: Can I reinstall mythfrontend without borking the existing backend?
[03:12:29] wagnerrp: bruderbell: pastebin some frontend logs
[03:12:29] iamlindoro: reinstalling the frontend would have no effect on your settings
[03:12:45] sphery: bruderbell: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Q . . . ecordings.3F
[03:12:48] wagnerrp: all settings are stored in the database, and will remain even after you uninstall mythtv
[03:13:00] sphery: bruderbell: also, make sure the backend is running and that file systems are mounted
[03:13:28] sphery: but if you see literally nothing in Watch Recordings, it's a filter or a view issue that the wiki FAQ entry will help you undo
[03:13:33] bruderbell: Thx for link sphery. I did check both the filters and views
[03:15:54] k-man: NickHu, you there?
[03:17:39] iamlindoro: Summer Glau on Alphas next week, whew, that's good, SyFy will have a free hour of programming in two weeks
[03:18:15] wagnerrp: hehe
[03:18:24] bruderbell: just looking over my mythfrontend.log and it seems to only have entries from months ago
[03:18:28] wagnerrp: hey now, the big bang theory survived her
[03:18:48] wagnerrp: its fine so long as shes not a recurring character
[03:18:55] iamlindoro: did she play herself?
[03:19:01] wagnerrp: yes
[03:19:06] iamlindoro: see, that's safe
[03:20:31] k-man: NickHu, I wonder if this is related to your issues? http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9777
[03:22:22] bruderbell: wagnerrp: http://pastebin.com/RbRt8mXS
[03:22:31] bruderbell: pulled that out of the system log viewer
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[03:32:47] bruderbell: well crap
[03:33:01] bruderbell: I guess I got disconnected there after posting my pastebin
[03:33:49] bruderbell: http://pastebin.com/RbRt8mXS
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[03:51:20] wagnerrp: what did he think i was going to do with the kernel logs?
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[03:55:29] sin360: hello everyone
[03:56:24] sin360: I'm trying to compile mythtv 0.23.1 in ubuntu 11.04 and when it gets the the very end I get this error. [sub-libs-make_default-ordered] Error 2
[03:56:51] [R]: that tells us absoultey nothing
[03:57:00] wagnerrp: nor is it an error
[03:57:08] wagnerrp: that merely tells us there was an error
[03:57:17] wagnerrp: why are you trying to compile 0.23.1?
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[03:57:53] [R]: maybe hes a time traveller?
[03:57:58] sin360: because I want to use xmbc as my frontend
[03:58:11] wagnerrp: so... why are you trying to compile 0.23.1?
[03:58:22] wagnerrp: why not just use the mythbuntu builds?
[03:58:47] sin360: From what I read on the wiki xmbc does work with 24 and live tv
[03:58:59] sin360: does not
[03:59:03] wagnerrp: uh huh
[04:00:38] wagnerrp: there are two reasons to run source
[04:01:02] wagnerrp: either you want to apply your own patches, or your distro does not maintain up-to-date packages
[04:01:17] wagnerrp: no development should be done against 0.23.1, since that is a dead branch
[04:01:32] wagnerrp: and mythbuntu provides nightly auto-builds
[04:02:02] wagnerrp: so the question wasnt "why do you want to run 0.23.1", it was "why are you trying to compile 0.23.1"
[04:04:59] sin360: Because I couldn't find any other source to get it from other than the mythbuntu build. Since I already have 11.04 installed I don't want to install mythbuntu and I could only find 23 in source
[04:05:22] wagnerrp: the mythbuntu project provides packages for standard ubuntu
[04:06:00] sin360: The only one in the package manager is 24
[04:06:36] wagnerrp: they dont have a 0.23.1 build?
[04:06:44] sin360: no
[04:07:03] wagnerrp: in that case, we still need to see the actual compile error
[04:07:33] wagnerrp: the last several hundred lines, just dump them in a pastebin, and paste the link in here
[04:07:43] sin360: ok
[04:07:49] [R]: they most certainly have 23.1
[04:10:36] sin360: From which repo? because I just checked again to be sure and the only one available is 24
[04:11:05] [R]: [09:01:32] wagnerrp and mythbuntu provides nightly auto-builds
[04:12:11] sin360: http://pastebin.com/05SxycqK
[04:12:51] wagnerrp: there is no error here
[04:12:57] wagnerrp: try again single threaded
[04:13:13] sin360: ok
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[04:32:29] [R]: wagnerrp: so i made that directv.pl frontend in bash
[04:32:38] [R]: too lazy to do it in cruses
[04:32:57] wagnerrp: are you taunting me?
[04:35:59] [R]: lol
[04:38:29] Beirdo: la la la
[04:38:49] Beirdo: my neck is in so much pain
[04:47:12] wagnerrp: so i guess hes never going to give us meaningful compile logs
[04:48:38] Beirdo: INFOTECH AEROSPACE SERVICES, ISABELA, PUERTO RICO
[04:48:50] Beirdo: wtf?
[04:48:58] ** Beirdo slaps his mouse **
[04:49:17] wagnerrp: working on your resume?
[04:49:31] k-man: Fascinating :)
[04:49:35] Beirdo: heh
[04:49:42] Beirdo: guilty as charged
[04:50:35] Beirdo: it needed updating :)
[04:52:31] [R]: HAHA
[04:52:38] [R]: the little kid peed his pants
[04:52:52] [R]: so the teen mom asked him if he wantdd her to pee on him
[04:52:54] [R]: and he said yes
[04:53:22] Beirdo: what trash are you wasting your time watching now?
[04:53:50] [R]: teen mom still
[04:54:01] [R]: well i got my directv all hooked up properly now
[04:54:15] [R]: just waiting on my coax to optical adapter
[04:54:22] Beirdo: you will find there are hundreds of better shows to watch
[04:54:31] [R]: lol
[04:56:09] [R]: $16 shipping
[04:56:14] [R]: what are these people thinking, freakin ebay
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[05:16:23] Statts: mythbuntu 10.04 – does that use mythtv 0.23 or 0.24?
[05:17:39] [R]: you can use eitehr
[05:18:00] Statts: both are pre-installed?
[05:18:17] [R]: no clue wahts preinstalled
[05:18:19] [R]: this isnt #mythbuntu
[05:18:28] Statts: appologies
[05:20:30] skd5aner: reading through the log, I've seen like 3 different people *today* talking about running older versions of MythTV so they could interface with xbmc via some third-party plugin...geesh, what's in the water today?
[05:20:52] [R]: fluoride
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[05:22:09] skd5aner: ah, but of course... prevents tooth decay /and/ influences people to run obsolete software so they can use piecemealed interfaces with other software
[05:22:18] [R]: lol
[05:23:06] skd5aner: I swear, there needs to be a significant security flaw backported to older versions so that there's a major reason for us to tell people to upgrade at all costs
[05:23:15] [R]: lol
[05:23:22] [R]: i want to switch to master
[05:23:26] [R]: but imma scardy cat
[05:24:14] skd5aner: I used to run "master" from about .14 to .21, but then .21 stagnted and development wasn't that stable
[05:24:28] [R]: i forget what timeframe i used it
[05:24:31] [R]: i used to
[05:24:38] [R]: 21 or 22 maybe
[05:24:50] skd5aner: Then the -fixes branch was thought up, and that's worked relatively well for me
[05:24:59] skd5aner: and I could usually look forward to 6–8 month release cycles
[05:25:16] skd5aner: but yea, I can see good reasons to go back to running master
[05:25:38] skd5aner: I'm too "skeerd" too
[05:25:40] [R]: i updated a few days ago to latest fixes, i hadnt updated in a few months
[05:25:44] [R]: and it totally broke stuff
[05:25:50] [R]: and i had to drop down to like a crappy vdpau deint
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[05:26:04] skd5aner: yea, I was going to... and I decided, why not update my distro too at the same time...
[05:26:14] skd5aner: updated it on my mbe, rebooted, and my mobo wouldn't post :P
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[05:26:43] skd5aner: it's currently on a fedex plane somewhere over Kansas right now on it's way to Southern California for RMA :X
[05:27:50] skd5aner: [R]: what was the issue with VDPAU after upgrade? That seems strange
[05:28:09] Beirdo: but of course... people upgrade, find one silly problem in almost a year's worth of updates... and what do they do? They go back rather than try to get it fixed.
[05:28:13] skd5aner: I'm about a month behind on commits, but I haven't seen anything I recall through early July that would significately impact VDPAU in fixes?
[05:28:49] skd5aner: Beirdo: "try and get it fixed" = "submit bug reports" ?
[05:28:57] [R]: skd5aner: i was getting audio errors and it was choppy
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[05:29:13] Beirdo: well, of course, how else will it get fixed?
[05:29:19] [R]: Beirdo: wishful thinking?
[05:29:24] Beirdo: unless you can code and fix it yourself
[05:29:26] [R]: Beirdo: especially when you keep the bugs to yoursaelf
[05:29:39] Beirdo: exactly
[05:29:50] skd5aner: I mean... people can only do so much – when an update "breaks" and the impact is that you can't watch/record TV and you could prior to upgrade – rolling back the DB and reverting to the last version is usually the path of least resistance unless you're a developer who can tackle it yourself
[05:30:20] Beirdo: sorry, people, but we can't see your TV, and if we knew about the bugs, chances are tehy'd be getting fixed
[05:30:26] skd5aner: I've got a few bug reports out there that are months old reporting segfaults that haven't even been looked at by a dev...
[05:30:37] Beirdo: rolling back and not reporting bugs... will not get it fixed
[05:30:46] Beirdo: yeah, they've been looked at
[05:30:55] skd5aner: I don't necessarily expect someone to fix it overnight, but if the bug was big enough, I can't just linger on the "buggy" version
[05:31:09] skd5aner: well, "triaged" isn't necessarily "looked at"
[05:31:11] Beirdo: we can't always prioritize specific bugs over others :)
[05:31:20] skd5aner: don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, it's just how it is...
[05:31:52] skd5aner: and my specific reports are kind of hit or miss things that don't impact 95% of my usage, so it's not a big deal – but I'm just giving exampls
[05:32:07] Beirdo: yeah
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[05:32:44] skd5aner: there's just plenty of situations where people see bugs, that don't impact the devs, or the devs that can fix it don't have the time to look at it, etc
[05:32:51] Beirdo: it just annoys me when people expect perfection, and refuse to try to do their part in getting stuff fixed :)
[05:33:20] Beirdo: well, if they don't affect any of the devs, you definitely need to get a well-reported bug in
[05:33:49] skd5aner: well, for me it's become slightly harder to know if something's been reported or not – not sure why that is or if that's just because I'm so busy this year that I don't pay close enough attention
[05:34:03] Beirdo: otherwise there's no way it can get tracked down
[05:34:12] skd5aner: Beirdo: my reports are golden... prime examples for all others to follow
[05:34:13] skd5aner: ;)
[05:34:16] Beirdo: :)
[05:34:34] Beirdo: hehe, yeah, it is often hard to know if it's been reported, I agree
[05:34:48] skd5aner: yea, and really – that's just the nature of the beast
[05:35:07] skd5aner: honestly, just be glad it isn't something like what ubuntu has to go through
[05:35:36] Beirdo: hehe
[05:35:46] skd5aner: whenever I search their bug reports, I usually end up having to sift through 30 dupes to get to the original
[05:35:59] Beirdo: they bring that on themselves
[05:36:25] skd5aner: well, their exposure is 1000x greater than mythtv's too, and the user base isn't as technical in a lot of cases
[05:36:53] skd5aner: (to clarify – ubuntu's user base isn't as technical as mythtv's)
[05:37:00] Beirdo: yeah
[05:37:44] Beirdo: I'm gonna slap this laptop into oblivion
[05:37:46] skd5aner: but anyway – I understand why some people are hesitant to upgrade mythtv in a hurry when a new release comes out, but I don't understand, in 98% of other cases, why people want to stick to their guns and not upgrade
[05:37:51] Beirdo: it keeps dropping my ssh connection
[05:38:33] skd5aner: I think that's why I get a bit verbose in the release notes, I want people to see the enormity of changes that make up a release that would be important to an end user
[05:38:40] Beirdo: well, yeah :)
[05:38:46] skd5aner: and that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the # of changes that actually make up the release
[05:39:30] skd5aner: for example, how many verbose => log changes have you committed? 300? I haven't even mentioned it at all in the release notes (which I wanted to talk to you about sometime – I feel it's worth at least a mention and maybe a few sub-bullet points)
[05:39:45] Beirdo: about 7500 lines total
[05:40:09] skd5aner: yea, but to an end user, it doesn't really change what they do much – it's all internal stuff
[05:40:16] Beirdo: true
[05:40:30] skd5aner: it changes a little in how they set logging levels, as I think I understand it
[05:40:36] Beirdo: the main change to them is that it should be faster (and that the debug logs are far more useful for us)
[05:40:54] skd5aner: and that's probably important to call out, anything that they would need to be aware of as far as -v parameters might be concerned
[05:41:32] Beirdo: right
[05:41:41] skd5aner: anyway – I should have went to bed like 2 hours ago
[05:42:00] skd5aner: I just don't wanna
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[05:42:51] Beirdo: hehehe
[05:43:18] Beirdo: I should go to bed and see if I can lose this dang headache
[05:45:44] Beirdo: and I think I need to invest in a fan for this office... clear some of the excess computer heat from under the desk
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[06:55:03] k-man: justinh, you awake?
[06:56:28] [R]: "the vest is bulletproof"
[06:56:32] [R]: "... but it is a vest"
[06:56:43] justinh: k-man: awake and at work. Not that it stops me theme hacking ;)
[06:56:53] k-man: ah
[06:57:39] k-man: justinh, how should I approach ripping out all the image backgrounds in MythCenter and replacing with shapes?
[06:57:46] k-man: any ideas?
[06:58:02] justinh: you say 'all', but I bet there won't be that many really
[06:58:23] k-man: well, I successfully changed the selectors as they were already shapes
[06:58:32] justinh: and I applaud any effort to get rid of the frickin awful surrounds of the PBB
[06:58:40] k-man: but when I tried to change a button with an image to use a shape, things did not go so well
[06:58:48] justinh: how so?
[06:58:49] k-man: PBB?
[06:59:00] justinh: play back box – watch recordings :)
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[06:59:20] k-man: justinh, oh – they came out all bit and screwed up and overlapping
[06:59:26] justinh: oh christ. XBMC got a mascot
[06:59:34] justinh: I already hate it more than I hate Tux
[07:00:01] k-man: I'm sure its because of my lousy hack job.I think I need to create a new button type from scratch to make it work
[07:00:34] justinh: overlapping will be due to using an area too small for the shape
[07:00:36] k-man: rather than rely on old unknown objects which inherit who knows what from where
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[07:01:00] justinh: and some images were a bit notorious for being off-centre
[07:01:12] k-man: oh?
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[07:01:36] justinh: what I've done in my magnum opus is make any textarea 40px high & vcenter it all
[07:01:45] justinh: well, at least 40px high :)
[07:01:50] k-man: right
[07:02:09] justinh: k-man: yeah if you look at the raw images in an editor you might find that even button images aren't centred in the frame
[07:03:09] k-man: I sort a wish there was a way to make the edges of areas visible in the theme, for dev purposes
[07:03:17] justinh: ruh? somebody running XBMC has a 'server cum gaming PC' with 12GB RAM & 24TB of storage
[07:03:24] justinh: k-man: there is a way!
[07:03:34] k-man: there is?
[07:03:42] justinh: 24TB in Windows.. that's gonna be like... ugh
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[07:03:58] k-man: xbmc is windows?
[07:04:19] justinh: http://xbmc.org/natethomas/2011/08/06/feature . . . e/#more-4730
[07:04:21] kormoc: mainly
[07:04:47] kormoc: I wonder how the gentleman afforded 1500 blue ray movies and managed to rip them all
[07:05:05] justinh: quite
[07:05:17] [R] ([R]!~rbox@unaffiliated/rbox) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[07:05:19] kormoc: plus 7200 episodes of tv shows, all ripped and split. He must be independently wealthy.
[07:05:20] justinh: and had time to record 7500 720P TV shows or whatever
[07:05:46] kormoc: I doubt we've ever broadcasted 7500 unique shows in 720P
[07:05:50] k-man: some people have too much time and money on their hands
[07:06:13] kormoc: k-man, we're hinting that it might not all be legit
[07:06:16] k-man: it becomes an obsession for people
[07:06:24] justinh: so does *that*
[07:07:02] justinh: k-man: I can't remember what the -v incantation is but it's something like showwidgets
[07:07:03] k-man: kormoc, yeah, but I was just saying -even discounting how he acquired the data, still its a lot of money on equipment and setting up
[07:07:13] k-man: justinh, really?
[07:07:20] justinh: meh. setting up takes very little time
[07:07:21] kormoc: True enough
[07:07:41] kormoc: justinh, getting 24 tb accessible in windows is a feat I don't want to attempt
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[07:10:08] justinh: darnit I can't even find the commit message for the fancy area shower-offer
[07:12:24] justinh: it's likely not a -v option though, more probably a setting override or similare
[07:13:16] k-man: justinh, oh
[07:13:48] justinh: heh there's a tweakmythtv blog
[07:13:55] k-man: so what menu theme is the default these days?
[07:14:48] justinh: default
[07:14:59] k-man: actually, which is the prefered menu theme I mean?
[07:15:15] justinh: default
[07:15:55] k-man: thanks justinh
[07:16:59] justinh: mythfeed? WTH are all these 3rd party plugins I keep stumbling on?
[07:18:40] k-man: can you get a drop shadow on a button using only shapes?
[07:18:45] k-man: or not using images I mean
[07:19:54] justinh: nope
[07:20:06] justinh: well you kinda can but you can't (yet) blur anything
[07:20:36] justinh: www.dmgdevelopment.com/mythtv/documents/Final_Fall_Design_Report.PDF (!!!!!!!!!!!!)
[07:20:37] k-man: so you could just overlay 2 shapes for example?
[07:20:49] justinh: you'd have to draw the shadow shape first
[07:21:00] justinh: transparent, then put the main shape on top
[07:21:11] justinh: but the one on top would have to be 100% opaque
[07:21:12] k-man: ok
[07:21:20] k-man: ah I see
[07:23:53] k-man: is the pushed button state used much?
[07:24:01] k-man: I can't think of an example of its use
[07:24:54] justinh: I wish that state would go away & die already
[07:25:08] k-man: anyway
[07:25:08] justinh: it's intended for touchscreens & the like
[07:25:17] k-man: oh, I see
[07:26:04] k-man: did stuartm end up looking at line gradients?
[07:26:10] justinh: I dunno
[07:26:25] k-man: anyway, I have to go and make dinner
[07:26:34] justinh: grr I'm gonna have to look in the code to find this switch
[07:26:35] k-man: bbl
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[07:41:22] justinh: oh wait a minute.. it's a blimmin keybinding I think now
[07:43:24] justinh: or not
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[07:52:29] justinh: no, Google I said TEST AREA. sheesh
[07:55:42] justinh: I give up!
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[08:23:43] justinh: oh wow I really love inheritance. wanna pep up the pop in the whole theme? change ONE line :-D
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[08:47:38] smylie: i've jusst upgraded to 0.24, which is meant to have support for bulk media updating. I can see how to update meta data for individual shows (by pressing w), but I cant see how to update everything all at once.... is this possible?
[08:54:22] justinh: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo#Mass_Metadata_Grabbing
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[08:55:27] smylie: hmmme
[08:55:52] smylie: so if i have an already populated library (from 0.23) i need to purge them and scan again?
[08:56:00] justinh: I didn't have to
[08:56:11] smylie: I've tried scanning a few times since the upgrade and it hasnt picked them up
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[08:59:43] dgs_: just out of curiosity – what was my /quit msg from just before?
[09:02:22] justinh: look in the log :-)
[09:02:52] justinh: not that I saw a quit message
[09:04:34] dgs_: haha
[09:04:37] dgs_: i have no log
[09:04:48] dgs_: clinet just died on me
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[09:07:19] justinh: I mean the channel log
[09:07:50] dgs_: is that on the web in real time?
[09:11:32] justinh: mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1
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[09:13:19] MJBrune: can mythtv run files from samba shares?
[09:13:44] justinh: MJBrune: not directly. they have to be mounted
[09:16:23] justinh: if you want to do stuff like that, use a file browser like XBMC
[09:16:24] MJBrune: oh ok
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[09:26:14] MJBrune: justinh: so basically I just want a nice gui to manage playing my already downloaded shows
[09:26:26] MJBrune: any idea what menu that would be under?
[09:27:46] stuartm: downloaded shows? As in torrents?
[09:27:46] justinh: oh for GODS SAKES
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[09:27:58] MJBrune: no not torrents
[09:28:04] justinh: I don't care
[09:28:10] MJBrune: I have a dvr that has the shows
[09:28:18] justinh: I don't care
[09:28:22] justinh: you SAID downloaded
[09:28:23] stuartm: MJBrune: good answer
[09:28:47] MJBrune: the dvr downloads them from the tv (or captures if you prefer)
[09:28:58] MJBrune: and has a samba share with them in it
[09:29:28] MJBrune: so I just want to play them via the network in mythtv, is that possible?
[09:29:38] stuartm: anyway, you're looking for the mythvideo plugin if you use mythtv
[09:29:56] justinh: erm... if that's *all* you want to do, mythtv may be too much like hard work for you
[09:30:22] MJBrune: justinh: ... problem?
[09:30:30] stuartm: 'Watch Videos', you just need to mount that samba share and then configure mythtv to look at the mount point in mythtv-setup > Storage Groups
[09:30:52] justinh: MJBrune: you need a backend, which as I recall isn't designed for running without tuners
[09:31:23] MJBrune: justinh: its running fine without a capture...
[09:31:33] MJBrune: or tuner
[09:32:07] justinh: FWIW I'd just use XBMC. very little setup, and it'll do just what you want
[09:32:25] justinh: cos it specialises in being a filebrowser with a media player bolted on
[09:32:40] justinh: if all I wanted to do was play files from a share it'd be what I'd use
[09:32:48] MJBrune: ill look into it
[09:35:10] MJBrune: justinh: link? I dont seem to have xbmc in my package manager
[09:35:24] justinh: sigh. Use google
[09:35:46] justinh: I dunno, the kids of today. no get up & go
[09:36:32] MJBrune: stuartm: I configured my samba mount to a mythtv storage directory
[09:36:47] MJBrune: stuartm: but I dont have a "watch videos" on my front end
[09:37:09] justinh: you need to install the mythvideo plugin
[09:37:48] EvilGuru: "Nicolas Robinson, 23, of Borough, south-east London, was jailed for six months for stealing a £3.50 case of water from Lidl supermarket" — gotta love the UK
[09:37:49] justinh: (til 0.25 is released anyway)
[09:38:21] justinh: EvilGuru: the court of appeals is gonna be very very busy soon. Yay
[09:38:52] EvilGuru: Most of these people have crappy pubic QC's and will probaby not bother to appeal
[09:40:27] MJBrune: ok i installed mythvideo but it still doesn't show watch videos
[09:40:38] justinh: quit mythfrontend & go back in
[09:40:54] MJBrune: oh ok i found it under media library
[09:40:59] MJBrune: but it doesn't show any media
[09:41:04] justinh: sigh
[09:41:05] MJBrune: even though under machine status
[09:41:13] justinh: we're not walking you through every fricking step
[09:41:13] MJBrune: it shows its reading from /movies
[09:41:19] justinh: press MENU in there
[09:41:35] MJBrune: I dont have a remote, whats the keyboard key?
[09:41:38] justinh: see the SCAN FOR CHANGES menu option? select it & off you go
[09:41:51] justinh: let's see. what could possibly stand for MENU
[09:41:58] justinh: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[09:42:07] MJBrune: dude calm down
[09:42:16] MJBrune: I tried esc, enter, space
[09:42:22] MJBrune: nothing is bring up anything
[09:42:28] justinh: you tried everything bar reading some bloody documentation
[09:42:53] MJBrune: dude rage more
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[09:43:23] justinh: see, this is why I suggested for you to use the other thing
[09:43:44] MJBrune: justinh: i looked into xbmc and it doesn't seem that great
[09:43:54] MJBrune: i'd rather just try this
[09:44:29] MJBrune: anyways the mythdocs are crap about this subject
[09:44:40] justinh: what, which key to press? LOL
[09:44:45] MJBrune: so what key do you mean by "menu" when it comes to the keyboard?
[09:45:02] justinh: what letter does the word 'menu' start with?
[09:45:22] justinh: tougher questions come later
[09:46:05] MJBrune: justinh: ok I scanned for changes, enabled file browse mode and scanned for changes again
[09:46:08] MJBrune: still shows nothing
[09:48:49] k-man: MJBrune, did you actually set up mythvideo to point to the diretory where you videos are?
[09:49:03] MJBrune: k-man: i did add it as a storage directory
[09:49:17] justinh: under where though?
[09:49:22] MJBrune: mythtv-setup
[09:49:34] k-man: MJBrune, is your fe and be on the same machine?
[09:49:57] justinh: which storage group did you define?
[09:50:08] MJBrune: I named it movies
[09:50:09] justinh: 'default'? because that'd be the wrong one for this case
[09:50:19] MJBrune: i created a new one
[09:51:18] justinh: no, you needed to use the Videos SG
[09:51:33] justinh: which you probably didn't have before you installed mythvideo
[09:52:09] MJBrune: now is it called storage group
[09:52:09] justinh: this is what jumping in without reading documentation gets ya
[09:52:15] MJBrune: or storage directory
[09:52:28] justinh: no, in 'storage directories' you should have a group called Videos
[09:52:56] MJBrune: justinh: do you have a particular site because the main mythdocs site just says "use these pre-made distros"
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[09:55:04] k-man: MJBrune, try here http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Manual:Index
[09:59:05] MJBrune: k-man: thanks
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[10:15:10] k-man: ok, this is interesting – on my mac, I set a specific resolution for the frontend, enabled window mode and title bar, but when I loaded a new theme, it moved the window to the top left
[10:15:18] k-man: now I can't select the top bar to move it
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[10:21:19] justinh: sounds like a mac-ism
[10:31:24] justinh: WTH is @mraught going on about here? "Why the hell is the db restore in the normal menus for #mythtv? In other news, the 2 yr old apparently restored an old db over the current."
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[10:37:34] justinh: is some distro or other packaging myth with hacked menus to do that or... ?
[10:38:02] k-man: no idea
[10:38:06] k-man: seems very strange
[10:38:14] justinh: doesn't seem like a sane thing to have
[10:38:28] justinh: maybe he's talking about mythbuntu control center (sic)
[10:38:39] justinh: I think that has a db backup.restore thingy
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[10:39:05] justinh: but that isn't what I'd call 'normal menus'
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[10:45:11] justinh: oh snap! knoppmyth/linHES
[10:45:24] k-man: I really have very little sympathy for anyone who uses these prebuilt mythtv distros
[10:46:44] justinh: I can imagine those things being nice to have just sheesh, hack some protection into it
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[10:54:04] justinh: well, if knoppmyth/linhes put the DB backup/restore script calling stuff in the right place it should be at least PIN protected
[10:54:47] EvilGuru: mythbunutu is quite nice in that it does avoid the usual firmware issues
[10:56:40] justinh: anybody happen to know where the knoppmyth/linhes DB backup & restore script buttons are in the menu structure?
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[11:00:00] k-man: EvilGuru, what firmware issues?
[11:00:28] justinh: ah in the service menu, which is UTILS/SETUP which ain't PIN protectable AFAIK
[11:02:18] justinh: very surprised it doesn't happen much more often if it's not PIN protected
[11:03:56] EvilGuru: k-man: With Ubuntu I used to have to manually download and copy the firmware
[11:04:08] EvilGuru: (firmware for the tuners)
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[11:06:40] justinh: oh shoot. they change mainmenu.xml to launch linhes.xml which in turn links to the usual setup stuff & the DB backup/restore scripts
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[11:07:05] justinh: IMHO the DB stuff should blimmin well be within the main setup pages which'd be protected by PIN
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[11:17:34] laga: guys, any of you running tip or 0.24 w/o vdpau willing to try playing this AVCHD image: http://www.chip.de/downloads/c1_downloads_hs_ . . . d916ee85fd75
[11:17:57] laga: it contains some test pictures for display adjustment and 0.24 + vdpau chokes on that
[11:18:26] laga: you need to unzip the iso, mount -o loop the image and then run mythavtest bd:///mount/point/
[11:19:43] justinh: heheheheh you can password protect just about any main menu
[11:19:46] justinh: neat!
[11:20:26] justinh: although it's only a matter of time before somebody else complains that their 2yr old grabbed the plaintext password from the DB then messed up all the settings
[11:21:12] stuartm: laga: you need to mount it first? I thought we'd sorted out iso playback
[11:22:05] stuartm: justinh: the password for protected menu items isn't stored in the database, but it is stored in the xml which is just as insecure
[11:22:16] laga: stuartm: i believe it didn't work for me
[11:22:18] laga: let me try again
[11:22:29] stuartm: laga: I could be mis-remembering
[11:22:51] stuartm: justinh: and it's not 'just about' every menu item, it's every menu item :)
[11:22:56] justinh: stuartm: eh?
[11:23:15] justinh: stuartm: the PIN is stored in the DB
[11:23:21] laga: stuartm: no, no worky. :)
[11:23:23] justinh: but the protection is in the XML
[11:23:38] justinh: edit the XML, remove the protection :)
[11:23:48] justinh: or glean the PIN from the DB
[11:24:02] justinh: either or... should put most wives/kids off though innit
[11:24:42] stuartm: justinh: pin isn't stored in the db ... yes it's still not _that_ secure if people can access the box but it's designed for kiosk style use where you can't exit mythfrontend to get at the files
[11:24:58] stuartm: justinh: I assume you're talking about <password> ?
[11:25:17] justinh: yeah
[11:25:37] stuartm: i.e. <password>you'llneverguess</password>
[11:26:03] justinh: that works too?
[11:26:28] justinh: I just tried <password>SetupPinCode</password>
[11:27:19] stuartm: justinh: yeah, SetupPinCode is a special keyword which uses the pin in the DB, I'd forgotten about that
[11:27:44] stuartm: but you can specify just about any password you want in the xml too, so different menu items can have different passwords
[11:27:57] justinh: nah that isn't working here
[11:28:09] stuartm: it should be ... if it isn't then it's a bug
[11:28:32] justinh: I just put <password>rudeword</password> in main_menu.xml
[11:28:47] justinh: doesn't give an error but doesn't ask for anything either
[11:29:02] justinh: but <password>SetupPinCode works
[11:29:04] sysadmin_: i have a usb tv box, dont know mythtv can support it
[11:29:07] sysadmin_: show know
[11:29:15] stuartm: justinh: hmm, something is broken then
[11:29:36] justinh: sysadmin_: mythtv doesn't generally 'support' tv tuner devices
[11:29:54] justinh: sysadmin_: if it works with linux and its driver conforms to the V4L2 API mythtv can use it
[11:30:00] justinh: !url tuners
[11:30:00] MythLogBot: tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information
[11:30:44] sysadmin_: justinh, need i install tuner's driver first before install mythtv?
[11:31:42] justinh: that depends on whether the kernel your linux users supports the tuner
[11:31:58] justinh: if it's already in the kernel, chances are it'll just work
[11:32:04] justinh: if not, you have some work ahead of you
[11:32:43] justinh: how does anybody make it to sysadmin_ not knowing this stuff? Not a linux sysadmin obviously :-)
[11:32:45] sysadmin_: my system is centos5.6, dont know if its kernel support
[11:34:07] justinh: so, you go to the URL I just got up for you, and you see if linux supports it at all, then you try the device on your box & see if it works outside mythtv. if it does there's a pretty good chance mythtv will work with it to. Problem solved!
[11:34:41] justinh: if it's an ACME USB TV Tooner V12.4 from Ebay or whatever, abandon all hope
[11:35:17] justinh: stuartm: heh of all the weird bugs to find eh
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[11:36:00] justinh: stuartm: I had no idea it was ever even supposed to work with different stuff. wonder how long it's been like that
[11:37:09] sysadmin_: no clue, have not find the name of my usb box on the page
[11:37:31] justinh: sysadmin_: hardly a promising start
[11:37:52] justinh: what is the name of the USB box?
[11:38:00] sysadmin_: it is one made in china, the name is chinese, so the page couldnot contain it's name
[11:38:04] sysadmin_: brand
[11:38:16] justinh: if I were you I'd probably give up now
[11:38:18] sysadmin_: i means the tuner name
[11:38:50] justinh: go buy a known branded product. Yeah I know those tend to cost $money but hey you want it to work, right?
[11:39:12] justinh: plug it in & see what lsusb says about it
[11:39:19] sysadmin_: no, i wouldnot buy another
[11:39:22] justinh: there's a slim chance it might work
[11:39:29] sysadmin_: lsusb say nothing
[11:39:39] justinh: but all this no-name stuff from china is generally junk
[11:39:57] justinh: so then, you are stuck up the creek with no paddle & your boat has a hole in it
[11:40:04] sysadmin_: /var/log/message say it saw the device
[11:40:24] justinh: but it's not listed in lsusb? that isn't a good sign
[11:40:47] sysadmin_: u know, these no-name stuff from china is generally is compatiable with known branded product, right?
[11:40:54] justinh: no, it isn't
[11:40:58] justinh: you might get lucky
[11:41:07] sysadmin_: maybe it use the same tech like known one
[11:41:12] justinh: yes maybe it does
[11:41:20] sysadmin_: haha
[11:41:24] justinh: but if it ain't showing up in lsusb I very much doubt it
[11:41:41] sysadmin_: but lsusb say nothing , what step should i take
[11:41:48] justinh: go buy a known brand
[11:41:52] EvilGuru: sysadmin_: Try a different USB port
[11:42:08] justinh: if lsusb isn't listing anything, I'd say it's probably even broken already
[11:42:08] sysadmin_: that need mony, i wont
[11:42:22] justinh: sysadmin_: so then, you are stuck. As I already said :-)
[11:42:37] sysadmin_: it's ok, work fine on window
[11:42:53] justinh: fine, so stick to window
[11:42:56] sysadmin_: xp
[11:43:13] justinh: stick to window with cellotape for all to see
[11:43:16] sysadmin_: i have removed window xp
[11:43:40] justinh: what a waste of money it would be to have windows XP & not use it
[11:43:59] sysadmin_: what if i install a virtual box then install window xp in vbox
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[11:44:05] justinh: sigh
[11:44:18] sysadmin_: in fact, it is vista, what a bad one
[11:44:23] justinh: sysadmin_: what if you give up asking in here because you obviously aren't listening
[11:44:47] justinh: it's some random piece of junk tuner from China which will likely never work in linux and there's nothing we can do about that
[11:45:06] sysadmin_: sorry, but i will try
[11:45:38] sysadmin_: first problem is it need a driver, right?
[11:45:42] justinh: you could always try a different linux distro. I hear centos uses a very old kernel
[11:46:15] justinh: yeah just write a driver for it. because you can't just download one from the manufacturer & use it, generally
[11:46:22] sysadmin_: i plan install blfs, so still have many question to ask
[11:46:35] justinh: blfs? what does that have to do with mythtv?
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[11:47:33] sysadmin_: sign, let me try for some time, then come back to ask
[11:48:18] sysadmin_: thank you justinh
[11:51:38] stuartm: I would never recommend CentOS for a media-related platform, it's designed for use in high-availability commercial server rooms not in the home, it intentionally runs older kernels and old packages which tends to be the exact opposite of what you need for media
[11:52:44] stuartm: for 99% of applications you'll find that the current release of any desktop distro will be just as stable but they will have the latest drivers too
[11:54:42] sysadmin_: because i use centos in company, so i install it, just for study, as for media-related issue, i think found source and install them will resolve problem, right?
[11:55:22] sysadmin_: i dislike use a system with all installed
[11:55:45] sysadmin_: that is why i plan install a blfs
[11:56:20] sysadmin_: very queer, my xchat alway hide half line of the bottom
[12:00:11] stuartm: ffs, they are transmitting PSB1 _and_ Mux B? I've got two of every BBC radio channel
[12:02:41] justinh: I think they did that here for a while too
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[12:05:50] stuartm: yeah, seems that they won't shut off Mux B until the 31st
[12:06:43] justinh: easy to spot which muxes are new, thankfully :)
[12:08:44] Soul_keeper: "Fixed Big Indian Issues" --kernel changelog
[12:08:47] Soul_keeper: lol
[12:09:04] wagnerrp: justinh: hahaha... my "dvr" "downloads" episodes from "my tv"
[12:09:06] stuartm: justinh: you'd have thought so, but Mux B appeared with a new TSID
[12:09:53] wagnerrp: Soul_keeper: typo?
[12:10:07] stuartm: I've just deleted Mux B for now, everything that was on it is also on BBCA/PSB1
[12:10:30] Soul_keeper: wagnerrp, yeah, or intentional as a joke
[12:10:53] justinh: stuartm: easy as in anything new would be 64QAM
[12:10:56] wagnerrp: justinh: looking at that xbmc link, hes got a mitsubishi tv
[12:11:08] wagnerrp: have you ever seen a mitsubishi rear projection tv?
[12:11:16] wagnerrp: they look like absolute garbage
[12:11:35] wagnerrp: ... or at least the people at best buy never figure out how to configure them
[12:11:40] justinh: heh. not a company I'd ever consider buying a product from
[12:11:51] wagnerrp: but considering how much cheaper they are than the rest of the market, im opting for they just look like garbage
[12:12:18] justinh: I dont think I've ever seen an RPTV produce an image I'd call good
[12:12:26] stuartm: justinh: ah right, true
[12:13:03] wagnerrp: ive got a friend with an LCOS RCA set that looks nice
[12:13:24] justinh: all brands I've never seen anything of over here :)
[12:13:50] justinh: I don't think I even own *anything* American
[12:14:06] justinh: oh maybe my Vans.. I think they might be American
[12:14:26] wagnerrp: nah, Taiwanese slave labor
[12:14:30] wagnerrp: :P
[12:14:44] justinh: *brand* :-)
[12:14:55] justinh: not suggesting anything is made in the US anymore :)
[12:15:28] justinh: mind I wouldn't buy British either. Shoddy workmanship
[12:16:29] justinh: all the gear this company sells is made in malta. they even glue all the cables in place
[12:16:44] justinh: which is annoying when it's just a 16-way 0.1" ribbon
[12:17:00] wagnerrp: hot glue?
[12:17:04] justinh: yeah
[12:17:07] justinh: or silicon
[12:17:13] wagnerrp: i never understood that
[12:17:30] wagnerrp: i mean a lot of these connectors are hard enough to remove if youre actually trying
[12:17:38] wagnerrp: theyre never ever going to come out on their own
[12:17:42] justinh: I did some sums on it – the force required for the cable to fall off the mating connectors under the weight of the cable in transit would be likely to deform the unit beyond all recognition
[12:18:11] justinh: yeah I keep suggesting we put some post-assembly inspection in place but no
[12:19:22] justinh: heck most connectors have enough spare conductors for us to have the unit test its own cabling
[12:19:49] justinh: again, refused.. dunno why they keep turning the suggestions down
[12:21:58] justinh: maybe cos they're not *their* idea
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[12:22:30] justinh: we could be loads more profitable if they started seeing labour involvement as a real cost issue
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[12:23:56] justinh: you should see one of our most populat products, it's a mare to assemble. 58 screws in 2 side panels, PCBs stacked 3 high, no access to any in circuit programming header once it's put together outside the case... bah
[12:24:40] justinh: bit of a bugger when the main app goes OOM & blats over the main jffs partition in the flash
[12:25:06] wagnerrp: three high? just what do you have in the things?
[12:26:33] justinh: main board with the CPU etc, PSU & I/O on top, then more I/O
[12:27:20] wagnerrp: oh, the PSU is just a custom board mounted in the sandwich... hadnt thought of that
[12:27:34] wagnerrp: but more IO? how many video inputs does the thing have?
[12:27:55] justinh: some have up to 32 inputs
[12:28:25] sysadmin_: justinh, i guess my tunner use a main-stream chipset, 8717?, please recommend me one that is similia with mine most, so i will study its driver
[12:28:26] justinh: alarm inputs, relay outputs, audio I/O.. serial for GPS etc
[12:28:49] wagnerrp: gps for... radio clock?
[12:29:00] justinh: position sensing
[12:29:06] justinh: it's a mobile unit, that one
[12:29:13] justinh: for buses & trains
[12:29:24] justinh: & mobile CCTV towers
[12:29:25] wagnerrp: ah, was wondering why one would want to move a security system
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[12:31:00] justinh: 2 LAN ports too, so they can be addressed while mobile
[12:31:05] sysadmin_: say ah, say ah
[12:31:15] justinh: so if somebody steals yer bus, you can kill the ignition remotely
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[12:32:03] wagnerrp: sysadmin_: if you are trying to get a chipset driver to recognize an unknown device, you should probably talk to the linuxtv folks
[12:32:11] planktonboy: hi all
[12:32:17] wagnerrp: at the least, its going to take adding a new device id to the driver and recompiling
[12:32:27] wagnerrp: at most, it may be something considerably more complicated
[12:32:45] wagnerrp: either way, they would be much more suited to advise on that
[12:33:02] wagnerrp: or... return it and get something more mainstream that is known to work
[12:33:37] sysadmin_: wagner, my xchat always hide the last words, so i have see all you say
[12:33:49] wagnerrp: eh?
[12:33:57] stuartm: justinh: seems I completely mis-remembered how that password stuff works :( It reads the password from the DB, e.g. <password>Bob</password> would look for a setting called Bob and read the password as the value
[12:34:00] sysadmin_: linuxtv fo?
[12:34:10] stuartm: which isn't nearly as useful as I thought I'd made it
[12:34:26] justinh: stuartm: heheheh
[12:34:32] wagnerrp: fo?
[12:34:45] sysadmin_: the left letter i cant saw
[12:34:56] wagnerrp: !url logs
[12:34:56] MythLogBot: logs: http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/1
[12:35:06] sysadmin_: it display just like considerably more compli
[12:35:15] planktonboy: I would like to ask if there is any recent news re getting shoutcast streams in mythmusic
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[12:37:08] planktonboy: havent upgraded MythTV or plugins since the last time I was able to build Eskil's patch into my MythMusic
[12:37:12] stuartm: there are still a depressing number of people running the original 0.21 release if you look at the screwed up icon submissions we're still receiving, this was a bug in the original 0.21 release iirc, which was fixed in the point release
[12:37:13] justinh: planktonboy: still waiting for your patches I think
[12:37:37] planktonboy: justin I wish I could :)
[12:37:52] wagnerrp: ... why does the kinect have motorized pan and tilt...
[12:37:54] sysadmin_: i copy and paste then see all words
[12:38:36] stuartm: planktonboy: maybe paul-h is looking at it, but he hasn't mentioned it and he's probably more concerned about completing the UI re-write
[12:38:37] justinh: stuartm: you mean channel icons?
[12:38:41] stuartm: justinh: yeah
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[12:38:49] planktonboy: yes
[12:39:48] stuartm: justinh: caused the first icon in the list to be returned instead of the selected icon, or something like that, it affected BBC submissions the most with the generic BBC icon being submitted instead of the correct icon
[12:39:48] planktonboy: I was just writing that I saw that Paul H had built some of it into MM
[12:39:52] wagnerrp: i dont know if i would actually want shoutcast in mythmusic
[12:40:03] wagnerrp: that seems like something better suited to a separate plugin
[12:40:11] wagnerrp: at the very least, its going to use an entirely different UI
[12:41:04] justinh: I dunno, most networked players seem to manage online streams just fine
[12:41:48] wagnerrp: but do they show them right along side random files you have on your hard drive?
[12:41:53] justinh: unless you're talking about managing stations & stuff.. yeah I can see that
[12:42:07] justinh: new db fields. all about the metadata
[12:42:08] wagnerrp: i mean youve got two separate modes of behavior
[12:42:35] planktonboy: Well I particularly liked it in there as I could run my fav stations such as somafm or di.fm very easily and have ProjectM libvisual responding to it just as when listening to my other music
[12:42:35] justinh: it's been discussed plenty of times before & ways found through it
[12:42:40] wagnerrp: one where you use independent files, either local or streamed from online source like google music
[12:42:54] wagnerrp: another where you just have a stream, and you get whatever is coming
[12:43:09] planktonboy: and it must be the second most used thing for me on Myth
[12:43:33] wagnerrp: im saying it just seems like it would be better suited for its own UI
[12:43:39] planktonboy: yes. I also patched in mythstream at the time
[12:43:41] wagnerrp: in which case, why not give it its own menu entry
[12:43:41] justinh: people still like visualisations? heh
[12:43:45] planktonboy: about 4 years ago now
[12:43:54] planktonboy: hehe
[12:43:56] planktonboy: yeah
[12:44:01] justinh: I have intel graphics, so can't do projectM
[12:44:03] planktonboy: call me old skool
[12:44:43] planktonboy: still stuck in the past if you know what I mean :)
[12:44:44] stuartm: wagnerrp: I'd imagine it could be integrated, just as we integrated CDs playing
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[12:45:05] planktonboy: its a neat visual plug
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[12:45:17] justinh: just don't allow entering radio streams in a playlist :-)
[12:45:41] planktonboy: and there is a more revent version 2 I believe which has many improvements
[12:46:04] justinh: libvisual works on my crappy intel video hardware but it looks awful & tears
[12:46:04] planktonboy: may try to compile that sometime
[12:46:11] stuartm: planktonboy: sadly we're dropping ProjectM support, the ProjectM libs were just too unstable and when they crashed it would bring down the frontend
[12:46:47] planktonboy: stuartm, that is sad to hear
[12:47:16] planktonboy: does that mean you are dropping libvisual support
[12:47:29] stuartm: yes
[12:47:36] planktonboy: oooh
[12:49:33] justinh: there's nothing to stop somebody doing proper visuals that don't rely on libvisual though
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[12:50:06] justinh: I mean most of the presets I've seen just look... hrm... boring
[12:50:26] justinh: and there are too many similar ones. weedle em out
[12:50:37] ** planktonboy sighs heavily **
[12:51:18] wagnerrp: sphery: around yet?
[12:52:44] justinh: planktonboy: just start smoking stronger stuff :P
[12:52:56] planktonboy: just updated my mum's Myth box and finally managed to get wakeup shutdown working on that...
[12:52:58] justinh: import libsalvia
[12:53:07] planktonboy: justinh LOL
[12:53:13] planktonboy: yes indeed
[12:53:14] wagnerrp: oof, segfault in mythtv-setup
[12:54:16] planktonboy: but trying to get wakeup working of the older 0.20 version of myth is giving me big grief
[12:54:32] justinh: frankly amazed shoutcast hasn't been nailed dead by the feds for not paying up anyway
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[12:54:47] wagnerrp: doesnt AOL own shoutcast?
[12:55:27] planktonboy: so it looks like its either streaming and visuals...or power and thus money saving
[12:55:53] planktonboy: justinh yes it does surprise me sometimes
[12:56:35] planktonboy: the stations pay royalties
[12:56:37] justinh: when I still had my own computer room/study at home I used to listen to Radio Paradise
[12:57:05] planktonboy: dont knw that one
[12:57:25] justinh: great music for theming to :)
[12:57:55] planktonboy: yes..I tend to listen to more chillout nowadays
[12:58:12] justinh: genres! Pfft
[12:58:16] planktonboy: or some gently idm :)
[12:58:30] planktonboy: gentle even :)
[12:58:41] planktonboy: getting old I guess
[12:58:49] justinh: all it took was for me to see ID tag definitions of genres for me to know they are a BAD IDEA
[12:59:08] justinh: Eminem == Rock. Erm. nope
[12:59:15] planktonboy: LOL
[12:59:26] planktonboy: sure..I agree
[12:59:39] justinh: Amy Winehouse, Back to Black == Boogie Woogie
[13:00:08] planktonboy: Should have been called Back to Front
[13:00:17] planktonboy: and Inside Out
[13:00:20] planktonboy: :)
[13:00:24] planktonboy: Bless
[13:00:38] justinh: wagnerrp: reckon you could just set up an rss feed of a radio stream & use mythnetvision?
[13:00:59] planktonboy: please
[13:01:02] wagnerrp: i dont think MNV is set up to handle such
[13:01:04] planktonboy: ;)
[13:01:25] justinh: hmmm I thought the internal player was fixed to handle audio-only stuff now
[13:03:14] wagnerrp: oof!
[13:03:50] hashbang: hmm, so, BBC4 cuts, less original material. :-(
[13:04:09] wagnerrp: im running a dev install in a jail
[13:04:19] wagnerrp: and right now, its not set up to be able to ping
[13:04:31] wagnerrp: so it tries to ping the database
[13:04:33] wagnerrp: fails
[13:04:46] wagnerrp: assumes the database is down, and brings up the dialog to choose a new one
[13:05:12] justinh: hashbang: they sold radiotimes :-(
[13:08:06] hashbang: justinh: I was going to say "who cares?", but I guess, thinking about it, the future of the RT feed might be in question...
[13:08:12] hashbang: (for free, anyway)
[13:08:21] planktonboy: brb
[13:17:45] justinh: not just for free. if anything changes I doubt it'd even stay
[13:18:24] planktonboy: just doing a partimage back to me old system
[13:18:25] hashbang: justinh: well, hopefully if it's threatened xmltv users etc can put together a subscription model that works for everyone
[13:18:36] justinh: schedulesdirect
[13:18:41] hashbang: 'zactly
[13:18:46] hashbang: I'd rather it remained free, but...
[13:18:48] planktonboy: messed up the wakeup shutdown settings
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[13:18:56] justinh: hashbang: I really don't mind paying for data
[13:19:09] hashbang: justinh: it's a model I can see developing
[13:19:13] hashbang: justinh: not just here...
[13:19:21] justinh: but then if we ever get freeview+ features I'll just use EIT all the time instead
[13:19:38] justinh: I'd rather have trailer links & ontime recordings than mega verbose descriptions
[13:19:42] hashbang: justinh: we've gone from an age of scarcity of original creative works to a glut
[13:20:14] justinh: hashbang: very little is original anymore
[13:20:15] hashbang: justinh: anything that helps us filter the things we'd like and appreciate from the stuff we won't will be increasingly valuable
[13:20:32] justinh: I've been looking at digiguide again
[13:20:37] justinh: I just wish they had an API
[13:20:58] hashbang: justinh: I'd pay to subscribe to a monthly newsletter from the A&R guys who signed some of my favourite bands
[13:21:19] justinh: I'm officially old now. I hate all new music
[13:21:27] justinh: well, everything they play on 6Music
[13:21:30] planktonboy: just want to say thanks too to all the devs for their hard work.
[13:21:58] justinh: digiguide: £14.99 per year!
[13:21:59] hashbang: justinh: I'm finding it hard to discover new bands I like
[13:22:24] justinh: hashbang: what happened to all the good times music? they're all bloody navel gazing whiny wrist slashers
[13:22:49] hashbang: justinh: I bought Terrorizer mag regularly, but a) didn't find time to keep on top of the cover-mounted sampler CDs and b) found a lot of the music to be overly-compressed (as in dynamic range)
[13:23:03] planktonboy: I installed Myth 0.24.1 on my old dears system and there do seem to be some nice enhancements in the last few years
[13:23:12] justinh: hashbang: blame consumers for that
[13:23:33] justinh: I'm starting to notice music that's been mastered to sound 'good' on phones
[13:23:36] hashbang: justinh: well, the New Wave of Thrash Metal is pretty much 'good times music' (for certain values thereof, anyway)
[13:23:51] justinh: hmm thrash isn't really what I meant ;)
[13:24:05] justinh: I want to be able to listen without feeling the need to headbang
[13:24:10] justinh: I get enough of that feeling here
[13:24:20] planktonboy: LOL
[13:24:35] justinh: "Browse at least 14 days of listings (some channels have 30 or 60 days) all for less than 85p/month"
[13:24:36] planktonboy: yup the age of virtual music
[13:24:46] justinh: 60 days data!
[13:25:10] justinh: that's probably Dave though. Same shows every day & other day, twice a day
[13:26:02] hashbang: justinh: £15 sounds reasonable enough. I'd probably pay that, if necessary.
[13:26:03] planktonboy: what amazes me is the number of porn channels
[13:26:49] justinh: yeah, don't these people have the internet?
[13:27:35] planktonboy: haha, exactly
[13:27:59] planktonboy: and with them and the advertising channels they make up almost half of the channels on freeview
[13:29:13] planktonboy: btw, a question re UTC
[13:30:33] planktonboy: trying to figure out why my box wont wakeup
[13:31:51] planktonboy: and the Myth Wiki states that UTC needs to reported back to the BIOS, not localtime
[13:31:58] planktonboy: is that correct?
[13:32:22] planktonboy: hope that makes sense
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[13:38:27] wagnerrp: that is standard procedure for everything but Windows systems
[13:38:41] wagnerrp: for unknown reasons, Windows insists on running local time in the BIOS clock
[13:39:21] planktonboy: wagnerrp thanks for the confirmation
[13:39:30] planktonboy: yes it seems strange
[13:39:46] planktonboy: but that has often confused me
[13:40:08] planktonboy: and I am easily confused :)
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[13:41:31] planktonboy: just trying to get my head around the wakeup shutdown commands
[13:42:05] planktonboy: I got it working fine on the other system that I built for my mum
[13:42:34] planktonboy: but that is a newer distro and myth version
[13:43:27] planktonboy: my system hasnt been updated for a few years, and I remember trying to get it working back then
[13:43:45] planktonboy: but thought I would give it another go
[13:44:18] wagnerrp: most people just leave their backend on all the time
[13:44:25] planktonboy: yes I have done
[13:45:39] planktonboy: but it would be useful to have if for example i was away on hols or travelling
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[14:08:07] ThisNewGuy: hey all – does anyone know if this is a real error – it happens whenever mythfilldatabase finishes (in Master) : http://pastebin.com/n1QfbzkH
[14:08:44] wagnerrp: its an issue for cleanliness
[14:08:49] wagnerrp: but not one you have to worry about
[14:08:57] wagnerrp: after all, it is in the process of terminating
[14:09:02] ThisNewGuy: k – so no need to submit a ticket?
[14:10:03] wagnerrp: probably not
[14:10:11] ThisNewGuy: k – thanks
[14:12:01] planktonboy is now known as plankgone
[14:12:43] plankgone: later all
[14:12:57] plankgone: and thanks for the help
[14:13:07] plankgone: bbiab
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[14:41:06] seeker: Hmm, is a socket 1155 i3 likely to be fast enough to run a backend? Playing back bluray, recording from a nova-t 500
[14:41:22] wagnerrp: backends dont play bluray
[14:41:56] EvilGuru: neither do frontends :P at least not the blu rays you get from shops
[14:42:22] seeker: Bleh, wasn't sure how much processing is done on the backend, so thought I'd mention it
[14:42:40] EvilGuru: commercial flagging goes on there, but it is not too intensive
[14:42:59] EvilGuru: until a couple of years ago my backend was a dual 1Ghz PIII
[14:44:08] seeker: Rather than buying it and getting "some obscure design Decision we made 3 years ago means that youll need at least an i5 to stream bluray to the front end"
[14:44:25] EvilGuru: stream bluray?
[14:44:37] justinh: obscure design decision?
[14:44:47] justinh: this isn't the place to come criticising the developers
[14:44:48] seeker: I have blurays on my hard drive
[14:45:03] laga: justinh: he wasn't criticizing, merely talking about his plans ;)
[14:45:30] EvilGuru: seeker: Worst case is 50mbit/s, so unless you end up back in 1997 you'll be fine
[14:46:36] justinh: yeah mythbackend doesn't do any transcoding of your junk
[14:46:42] seeker: justinh: I'm not criticising the developers. The fact is that thing that were implemented a while ago have an impact on new technologies in mythtv. Someone was trying to poke holes in my original statement. I was just trying to include information that I thought might be relevant
[14:46:45] ** iamlindoro wonders when we stopped playing Blu-ray **
[14:46:56] iamlindoro: All that code written for nothing!
[14:47:13] justinh: seeker: it's a silly question
[14:47:15] iamlindoro: (and yes, I mean the ones you got from "shops")
[14:47:19] wagnerrp: seeker: there are two issues with backend power
[14:47:30] justinh: peak bitrate is all you need capacity for streaming media really
[14:47:34] wagnerrp: first, you have the batch processing, transcoding, commercial flagging, etc...
[14:47:58] wagnerrp: however much you want to do of that, and however fast you want it to do, directly impacts how much power you need
[14:48:01] justinh: don't run a backend on an atom & expect wonders :)
[14:48:02] wagnerrp: second, you have your scheduler costs
[14:48:35] justinh: my last backend was a 2Ghz athlon. before that it was an 800mhz one
[14:48:38] wagnerrp: more channels, more weeks of scheduling data, more recording rules all mean more recording matches
[14:48:50] wagnerrp: more recording matches against more old recordings on more tuners means longer runs
[14:49:07] wagnerrp: once your scheduler runs hit around a minute, youre going to run into trouble with disrupted recordings
[14:49:16] EvilGuru: iamlindoro: The ones with BD+ and AACS keys that have to be Google'd for, not fun
[14:49:23] wagnerrp: any i3 should be plenty for this task
[14:49:43] wagnerrp: as for bluray playback, any standard desktop i3 should be plenty for this task
[14:50:07] wagnerrp: note that the mobile and/or low power ones may not have sufficient clock rate for high bitrate h264 and vc1
[14:50:32] seeker: justinh: There are unexpected bottlenecks in mythtv. Like how to can take 60 seconds to find the correct title to start playing on a bluray when playing through the frontend but starting instantly through mythavtest. I am hoping to avoid things like that cropping up after I have spent money on new hardware. As I said, I didn't know how much processing goes on at the backend, so I thought I would mention it
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[14:50:48] seeker: wagnerrp: Got an nvidia GT430 on the frontend
[14:51:00] EvilGuru: wagnerrp: I think Intel have got VA-API working to some extent on the newer integrated GPUs
[14:51:13] justinh: seeker: I don't have a clue what you're talking about
[14:51:14] wagnerrp: EvilGuru: vaapi is not supported in mythtv until 0.25 is released
[14:51:22] justinh: unexpected bottlenecks, my eye
[14:51:42] laga: guys, what do I want to set as color space for my LCD TV hooked up via HDMI? i don't want to set the TV to "pc mode" because i'll lose some features that way.
[14:51:43] wagnerrp: justinh: hes talking about deficiencies in the remotefile stuff when dealing with multiple files in an ISO
[14:51:54] justinh: FWIW 60 secs startup time is pretty darn good for a bluray playback, no?
[14:52:06] EvilGuru: Wasn't there a vaapi => vdpau layer? or was it the other way around
[14:52:14] wagnerrp: EvilGuru: other way
[14:52:21] justinh: wagnerrp: just sounded like whining to me
[14:52:25] wagnerrp: it was to allow VAAPI applications to run on nvidia hardware
[14:52:57] wagnerrp: 60 seconds to start a bluray is a bit excessive for any player
[14:53:10] wagnerrp: but 20–30 seconds is sadly common
[14:53:24] wagnerrp: however that is to spool up the whole java vm, which mythtv is not currently capable of
[14:53:35] wagnerrp: so start of bluray playback on mythtv should be much faster
[14:53:41] justinh: reviews I've read say 'quick' is a minute & a half from loading the disc
[14:53:42] seeker: wagnerrp: Nothing to do with the vm in this case
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[14:54:57] seeker: It's the fact that the bluray code reads the length of each title on the disk as a separate read, and the file system access code is bad at lots of small non-sequential writes, so it takes an age to find the right track
[14:55:10] seeker: It's instant to start with mythavtest
[14:55:10] justinh: I'd say it's pretty easy to figure that buying more powerful gear won't guarantee things will work better :)
[14:55:19] wagnerrp: justinh: i knew it was bad, but not /that/ bad
[14:55:45] justinh: wagnerrp: oh yeah players reviewed even recently say > 60 secs from putting a disc in to getting a menu
[14:55:50] seeker: But it wasn't obvious that was the case, and took quite a while of questioning to find out why it was slow compared to other players
[14:56:23] wagnerrp: seeker: mythavtest uses exactly the same code as the internet player, as it is the internal player
[14:56:33] wagnerrp: or are you talking about directly pointing mythavtest at the m2ts file?
[14:57:23] seeker: wagnerrp: Can't remember exactly what I did, iamlindoro said it was something to do with the code for reading from storage groups
[14:57:30] seeker: I think
[14:58:02] wagnerrp: yes, it takes some amount of time to open and close new files, and some more time to seek around and re-spool the buffer
[14:58:15] wagnerrp: but even if it is opening up every video file to find the longest
[14:58:29] wagnerrp: it shouldnt take ~60s to make a decision and start playback
[14:58:42] seeker: It depends on the film
[14:58:53] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: That's not all there is to it
[14:58:59] seeker: Avatar takes long enough for the screensaver to kick in
[14:59:08] seeker: And that is set for 60 seconds
[14:59:20] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: The code *internal* to libbluray and libdvdnav need to parse the tons of teensy metafiles on the discs
[14:59:21] wagnerrp: unless youre talking about something with dozens of extra bonus features
[14:59:30] iamlindoro: Our ringbufer is tuned for large reads
[14:59:42] wagnerrp: ah
[14:59:48] iamlindoro: Meaning when it can't fill its minimum on tuny files, it sits and waits to time out on each
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[15:00:53] iamlindoro: Which is only a fraction of a second... but when you're attempting to open and parse hundreds of tiny little TOC-style files...
[15:02:47] seeker: justinh: I hope you understand why I mentioned bluray now, when there are things like that that aren't obviously documented
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[15:03:44] wagnerrp: seeker: in any case, that behavior has nothing to do with CPU speed, but rather is waiting on various timers
[15:03:56] wagnerrp: timers that run at the same speed on any processor
[15:04:43] seeker: wagnerrp: No, that one isn't. But I don't know of there is something related to having a separate backend/ frontend that is related to processor speed
[15:04:48] seeker: Hence why I asked ;)
[15:05:08] wagnerrp: the only one of significant note is the scheduler
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[15:08:46] seeker: Cool, i3 it is then
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[15:41:12] ThisNewGuy: iamlindoro: would you expect season/episode to be populated in the oldrecorded table?
[15:41:22] iamlindoro: no
[15:44:54] ThisNewGuy: iamlindoro: k – thanks – do you think that would be an appropriate place to keep historical information about season/episode info? Is keeping historical season/episode info in the plan?
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[15:46:39] iamlindoro: It would be the appropriate place to keep it, it is not currently in the plan
[15:46:55] iamlindoro: Maybe in the future, but not on my short term list of goals
[15:47:38] iamlindoro: The item is already in oldrecorded by the time the lookup takes place, adding more DB overhead with no tangible benefit seemed unwise to me
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[15:47:58] iamlindoro: if there's a time at which we want to use it for duplicate checking, or something like that, it could be added fairly easily
[15:52:04] ThisNewGuy: would you accept a patch that added it to the oldrecorded table – even if it didn't include the duplicate checking part?
[15:55:03] iamlindoro: Probably not right now
[15:55:13] iamlindoro: But I guess it depends on the patch
[15:55:35] iamlindoro: If you want to pastebin but not open a ticket I will think about it
[15:59:19] iamlindoro: ThisNewGuy: I don't have extremely strong feelings about it, but you need to make a case for why it needs to be there right now
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[16:33:46] ThisNewGuy: iamlindoro: I think it's useful to have the historical information especially since the hard work of finding it was already done. My personal use is to compare what I have recorded and previously recorded to what was produced so I can figure out the differences. It's a lot more efficient to do this with season/episode numbers than to reproduce the work of the metadatalookup by comparing title, subtitle, etc
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[17:41:39] MitchCapper: mythmetadatalookup is not ending, when mythbackend runs it sometimes, if I run the command by hand at the console it does terminate but says: http://pastebin.com/0RKcxUG2 is there any further debugging I can do? attaching to it with strace shows it just waiting with futex(0xe4051c, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 1, NULL, using qt 4.7 and head as of last night
[17:41:54] MitchCapper: i looked through the recent commits but didnt see anything looking related
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[17:42:25] wagnerrp: sphery: this Lazkano guy is just clueless
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[17:50:47] sphery: wagnerrp: heh, seems 99% of the people who are so lazy as to be unable to hit a NEXTCARD key are clueless about just what that hack is doing to break their systems
[17:51:24] wagnerrp: its less of a 'hack', so much as he disabled multirec entirely
[17:51:31] sphery: granted, the effects are not easy to see without a pretty deep understanding of MythTV (and programming) schedules
[17:51:35] sphery: but still...
[17:52:07] sphery: no, I mean the hack that I mentioned (3+1 hack) that has been significantly corrupted by users telling other users to do 1+1
[17:52:23] wagnerrp: ah
[17:52:35] sphery: where 1+1 is completely breaking scheduling
[17:53:37] sphery: I plan to continue to refer to the hack as the "Break your system by configuring MythTV to prefer Live TV over recordings" approach from now on--just so people realize it's not without consequence
[17:53:59] sphery: wagnerrp: btw, I'm here, now, for a bit... did you figure out whatever you needed this morning?
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[17:54:56] wagnerrp: yeah, upnp detection was failing on one of my test jails
[17:55:10] wagnerrp: but as it turns out, it outright doesnt have ipv6 access for reasons i cant figure out
[17:55:22] wagnerrp: and since my backend runs on ipv6, that presents a significant problem
[17:55:40] wagnerrp: nevermind upnp detection, the whole thing fails
[17:55:46] wagnerrp: cant connect to the backend
[17:56:41] sphery: ah
[17:56:57] sphery: I really need to get the config.xml/mysql.txt stuff reworked
[17:57:10] sphery: stua rtm's patch was a great start on it
[17:57:15] wagnerrp: i was going to test out the new delete thread i wrote for mythmediaserver
[17:57:22] wagnerrp: but i cant get it running in the first place
[17:57:35] wagnerrp: (since it cant connect, and shuts itself down)
[17:57:44] sphery: just needs extended to get rid of mysql.txt and to make us actually use the config.xml stuff before trying localhost/mythtv/mythtv or other stuff and failing that, then going to upnp
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[18:17:13] andreax: Hello All. I reinstalled my remote frontend completly and now its working fine again. But i run into one error while building mythtv on a fresh gentoo install: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/perl5/5.12.2/i686-linux/Config.pm'. Anyone got an idea, what's wrong?
[18:17:47] wagnerrp: sounds like a perl error, not a mythtv one
[18:19:30] andreax: Ah. Okay.. I asked myself where the problem resides – in perl or mythtv. Thanks.
[18:19:56] wagnerrp: if its actually in the mythtv ebuild, then its a mythtv problem
[18:20:01] wagnerrp: or more likely a problem with the ebuild
[18:20:16] wagnerrp: but my guess is the problem lies in some perl package mythtv is dependent on
[18:20:44] wagnerrp: what did emerge say it was actually working on at the time of the fault?
[18:21:25] wagnerrp: andreax: ^^^
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[18:26:59] sphery: wagnerrp: heh, fwiw, /wc is /window close on irssi, which is useful for parting ( /part ) channels on disconnected networks... I think using /part is preferred when you have a network connection, though, since it tells the server you're leaving (but I don't know my IRC that well, so may well be wrong)
[18:27:38] sphery: w/c is is /wc with slow twitch on the right hand
[18:27:40] sphery: :)
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[18:52:55] andreax: Opz.. Sorry, wagnerrp. I was in the kittchen... :) Na, its a compile from source, not an ebuild.
[18:53:30] andreax: I also would blame perl or a perl module. The guys in #gentoo told me its a bug.
[18:54:01] wagnerrp: ah, i dont actually manually compile on my gentoo machines
[18:54:36] andreax: I started with it as long there wasnt an ebuild for master. But i guess in the meantime there is one?
[18:55:04] wagnerrp: there have been trunk/master ebuilds for mythtv as long as ive been using it
[18:56:37] andreax: Uhm... My first shot with mythtv long ago i just found the normal release ebuilds. Maybe i just didnt get there are also some for master... *cough*
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[18:56:50] andreax: I guess i love to type configure and make/make install... :)
[19:02:59] wagnerrp: note to self
[19:03:08] wagnerrp: an hour in the freezer is too long for warm coke
[19:03:16] ** wagnerrp goes back to his flat coke slushie **
[19:04:25] andreax: wagnerrp: Now give it some rounds in the microwave... \o/ :)
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[19:04:50] wagnerrp: its already flat, microwave just means i dont get to enjoy the slushie
[19:05:22] andreax: hehehe...
[19:16:20] wagnerrp: MitchCapper: you are running dirty, what changes have you made to the code?
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[19:18:36] wagnerrp: ThisNewGuy: you reported this same thing at the end of your logs too earlier today
[19:18:45] wagnerrp: was the metadata grabber not terminating?
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[19:22:20] ThisNewGuy: wagnerrp: I reported it against mythfilldatabase – but it also happens for me in mythmetadatalookup
[19:22:45] wagnerrp: i just remember you mentioning those last couple same lines
[19:22:50] wagnerrp: Thread X is still running
[19:23:54] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: is 'mythmetadatalookup --refresh-all-artwork' supposed to be persistent?
[19:24:14] ThisNewGuy: wagnerrp: http://pastebin.com/VxeEnCL7
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[19:24:18] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: persistent in what way?
[19:24:34] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: it is spawned like preview gen
[19:24:42] wagnerrp: persistent as top is reporting 52 minutes of CPU usage
[19:24:54] iamlindoro: The bug that was just filed doesn't appear to be a MML issue
[19:25:04] iamlindoro: but rather a thread cleanup issue, probably caused by the MThread changes
[19:25:05] wagnerrp: i mean on my system
[19:25:17] iamlindoro: Sounds like you're reporting the same thing
[19:26:25] wagnerrp: my builds are around a week old
[19:26:28] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: pre-MThread and other thread changes of the past few weeks, it should really never run for longer than a minute aside from a first long run
[19:26:31] wagnerrp: i forget then the mthread stuff happened
[19:27:34] iamlindoro: There have unfortunately been a lot of changes which could be related in the past couple of weeks, and I'm not sure which to consider the most likely syspect
[19:27:41] wagnerrp: yeah, my builds are on the 8th, mthreads went in on the 2nd
[19:27:45] iamlindoro: (though the primary MThread one would probably be where I would start)
[19:27:54] wagnerrp: probably a good bet
[19:28:08] wagnerrp: i was actually thinking the problem was due to the recent logging stuff
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[19:28:17] wagnerrp: switching logging to in-thread during shutdown
[19:28:44] wagnerrp: seems you mentioned the same in the ticket
[19:29:21] justinh: hmmm strange. seems I can't change themes on my system here
[19:29:35] wagnerrp: justinh: on a machine separate from the master backend?
[19:29:41] justinh: theme chooser lets me choose a different one & the frontend reloads everything but kicks back to Terra
[19:29:46] justinh: no the same
[19:30:12] justinh: I just renamed my theme at last.. Concept. Dropped the 'wide'
[19:30:33] justinh: edited the xml, restarted MFE.. defaulted back to Terra & it wouldn't change
[19:30:43] justinh: had to restart it for the change to take effect
[19:30:56] justinh: the only override I'm using is -geometry
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[20:25:44] justinh: rm now not all of my coverart is showing
[20:26:35] justinh: but it's showing up on the remote frontend
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[20:36:26] sphery: theme cache?
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[20:39:56] justinh: could be I suppose
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[20:41:58] justinh: Error: LoadScaleImage(myth://Coverart@192.168.1.30:6543/10764_coverart.jpg) failed to load image
[20:42:01] justinh: loads some but not all
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[20:45:43] justinh: what?!
[20:45:51] sphery: are they truly jpegs? if you have a .jpg extension on a png, for example, qt can't load it
[20:45:55] justinh: doing file on the filename produces an error.. no such file
[20:46:02] justinh: sphery: same images work fine on the frontend
[20:46:20] justinh: oh.. so they're in the cache on the frontend but not on this machine.
[20:46:52] justinh: hmm so how do I go get em again?
[20:46:53] sphery: try: rm -r $HOME/.mythtv/{remote,theme,thumb}cache
[20:46:58] sphery: then restart mythfrontend
[20:47:34] jams: make sure $HOME is defined correctly
[20:49:11] iamlindoro: ThisNewGuy: I am adjusting the metadata classes to return a concatenated list of movies + TV when something seems to be generic, or a movie. This is to allow people trying to create rules on generic episodes to select the correct show-- will this behave properly with your MythWeb integration? I am thinking just of the UI when the button items look different based on TV versus Movie
[20:50:23] iamlindoro: User reported that they had tried to do metadata lookup for "Chuck" with no further data, and got all the TMDB results for Chuck since it seemed to be a movie to the metadata classes-- want to give those people a chance to select the right item
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[21:10:37] sphery: finally, someone else noticing that Google's copy/steal approach to making Android wasn't necessary and was probably a bad idea: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/15/googl . . . d/page2.html
[21:13:19] wagnerrp: yeah, i dont know why they chose to go java-like
[21:13:21] sphery: that said, I'm almost starting to pity Google for the patent/IP mess it's currently in--and I'll be devastated if their misstep (and the non-Apple world's falling in line with them) leads to iOS and WinPhone becoming the only choice (though I've heard some really great things about WinPhone 8)
[21:13:34] wagnerrp: just because its java doesnt mean there are applications that are directly runnable on it
[21:13:50] wagnerrp: they still have to be translated over to the hardware interfaces and form factor
[21:14:05] sphery: but it's not Java--it's no-longer-compliant-with-Java-specs Dalvik and garbage
[21:14:11] sphery: so why even start with Java
[21:14:20] wagnerrp: right
[21:14:31] sphery: i.e. an Android app will not run on a JDK and a Java app won't run on Android
[21:14:34] wagnerrp: java-like
[21:14:37] sphery: yeah
[21:15:17] sphery: about the same as .NET is Java like--with the main distinction that it uses the same language (i.e. the same 50 keywords) and a /very/ similar (with some parts copied) API
[21:16:15] sphery: anyway, they had the money and the talent to do it right and they chose an approach that puts them--and Android *and* every OEM that choses to use Android--in a bad position
[21:18:15] sphery: (And, really, I think Google should have been in on the MS/Apple/etc purchase of the Nortel patents. Google almost painted themselves as the enemy in choosing not to bid jointly when asked by MS.)
[21:18:41] wagnerrp: yeah, that was funky
[21:18:47] wagnerrp: they were offered joint bit, refused
[21:18:58] wagnerrp: and then bitched when they didnt win and were left without patents
[21:20:07] sphery: yeah... seems that the IBM patent purchase and even the Moto Mobile purchase may be knee-jerk reactions to their being in a bit of a hole after that fiasco
[21:20:49] wagnerrp: especially since they could have bought moto mobile last year before moto split up, for like a third the price
[21:21:35] sphery: I just hope all this mess in the mobile industry finally spurs us to pursue the much-needed patent and copyright reform
[21:22:28] wagnerrp: i dont think google has the sway in congress to get the ball rolling on that
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[21:22:59] wagnerrp: but with all the other bickering and infighting between apple and the world, maybe someone will say enough is enough
[21:23:04] sphery: I guess, though, failing to participate in the joint bid said to those who ended up winning the Nortel patents that Google's plan was to use the Nortel patents against the others--and so it's likely that they'll be used against Google/Android
[21:24:18] sphery: right, I'm not expecting Google to be the one who causes the reform--I'm expecting all legal activity to raise the awareness of the issues within the general public and policy makers to the point that someone finally says enough is enough
[21:25:24] wagnerrp: i think samsung is big enough they might be able to push it through
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[21:26:11] wagnerrp: but being korean, i dont know if anyone cares what they have to say
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[21:26:22] benkevan: So what's the happening PVR that works with MythTV that records in 1080P?
[21:26:24] sphery: heh, yeah--that's definitely a challenge for them
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[21:26:50] wagnerrp: benkevan: mythtv IS a PVR, it doesnt work with other PVRs
[21:26:52] sphery: benkevan: MythTV will record digital broadcasts however they're broadcast (whether that's 720p, 1080i, or 1080p)...
[21:27:18] sphery: benkevan: for capture of content that's not possible with digital capture cards (i.e. is not DVB or not ATSC/QAM), you will need an analog encoder
[21:27:22] benkevan: as long as the tuner supports it obviously?
[21:27:28] wagnerrp: if youre asking about tuner cards, then the only way to get 1080p is through digital, and then what sphery said
[21:27:43] wagnerrp: benkevan: there are no tuners that support 1080p, as there are no broadcasts that support 1080p
[21:27:58] sphery: benkevan: your options are Hauppauge PVR-150 (and similar) for SDTV recordings or Hauppauge HD-PVR for 720p or 1080i recording
[21:28:11] wagnerrp: the HDPVR will do 1080i, but it is not a tuner
[21:28:16] sphery: 1080p24 and 1080p30 is definitely supported in all ATSC tuners
[21:28:16] benkevan: Yah, I was thinking of something like the HD-PVR by Hauppage or HDHomeRun thing.
[21:28:16] wagnerrp: it is an analog capture device
[21:28:31] sphery: but no broadcaster is sending it because it's easier to use 1080i60 with telecining
[21:28:31] wagnerrp: ATSC can do 1080p (but no one ever does)
[21:28:45] wagnerrp: DVB can do 1080p, but even then youre only capturing a digital stream
[21:28:48] benkevan: wagnerrp: hummmm.. my PS3 is 1080P .. :)
[21:29:02] wagnerrp: meaning resolution is both irrelevant, and you have no choice over the matter
[21:29:04] sphery: benkevan: might want to check http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview + http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable
[21:29:25] sphery: benkevan: where the PS3 output is basically "digital cable"--in that you can only get its output by using an analog encoder
[21:29:25] benkevan: sphery: I'm more interested in content like gaming.
[21:29:38] wagnerrp: benkevan: mythtv does not record from gaming devices
[21:29:47] wagnerrp: it is designed only for scheduled content
[21:29:53] sphery: (and you don't want to actually /play/ games through that encoder as they'll be enough behind real time that you will lose)
[21:29:58] benkevan: bummer. wonder what I should use for that then :( .
[21:30:05] wagnerrp: a TV
[21:30:08] benkevan: sphery: that or it'll act like a lag switch and you'll be uber win
[21:30:23] wagnerrp: a lag... switch... ?
[21:30:56] justinh: how the heck did any US network allow Wilfred to be made? It's brilliant
[21:30:57] sphery: what's your goal? to record a game session to show someone how you finished or to find a way to hook your PS3 to a computer monitor without shelling out for that expensive $25 vga or DVI cable/converter for the PS3
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[21:31:19] sphery: if the latter, the Sony or 3rd party cables/adapters are /definitely/ cheapest and will be your best bet
[21:31:25] wagnerrp: justinh: because its actually a remake of an australian show
[21:31:31] justinh: ahhh
[21:31:43] wagnerrp: of course we cant simply watch the australian show, we need to recreate it
[21:31:46] benkevan: Goal is to tape some video game play, but doesn't sound like MythTV will help in that sense.
[21:31:46] wagnerrp: for america!
[21:32:06] wagnerrp: benkevan: if you get an HDPVR, you can simply 'cat' the device node to a file to record
[21:32:11] wagnerrp: but it will only be 1080i
[21:32:24] sphery: justinh: besides, it's cable tv--not under the same content requirements as broadcast tv :)
[21:32:32] justinh: ahh again
[21:32:39] wagnerrp: blackmagic makes some component capture devices, but i dont know if theyre capable of 1080p
[21:32:54] justinh: only the USB3 blackmagic box can cap 1080P
[21:33:03] benkevan: wagnerrp: hummm.. anyone know of an example of some 1080i that was passed through an HDPVR ?
[21:33:25] wagnerrp: but as mentioned, unless youre planning on recording pre-scheduled television, mythtv is the wrong tool for the job
[21:33:28] sphery: benkevan: yeah, for just recording gaming sessions, you want something much simpler--like a KDETV or xawtv or tvtime or just plain dd reading from the analog encoder's video device and outputting to a nice MPEG file
[21:33:35] stuartm: justinh: damn, I was going to record that but forgot to set it up
[21:33:51] justinh: stuartm: it's on BBC3 so plenty of opportunity to catch it no doubt
[21:34:08] wagnerrp: so you guys cant get the australian version either, you have to wait for the US version?
[21:34:09] stuartm: yeah, just looking now, it's repeated again tomorrow
[21:34:13] ** benkevan hates it when I go on youtube and the darn videos aren't in HTLM5 format. **
[21:34:38] wagnerrp: talking in mixed first and third person... not a good sign
[21:34:39] sphery: heh, where "html5 format" is a nice nebulous concept :)
[21:34:42] stuartm: justinh: so it's good then?
[21:34:56] justinh: stuartm: yeah pretty good so far. best thing on BBC3 I reckon
[21:35:02] justinh: it's nicely messed up
[21:35:09] sphery: are we talking Chrome HTML5 or Mozilla/Firefox HTML5 or IE HTML5 or ...
[21:35:14] justinh: the joke might wear thin fast though
[21:35:51] stuartm: it sounded like it could go either way, insanely brilliant or catastrophically bad
[21:35:58] justinh: gah I'm having to go through most of my videos resetting the metadata
[21:36:08] wagnerrp: you know... i watched a bit of one episode where the dog told him the hit neighbor may have been a former man
[21:36:15] justinh: all cos the coverart isn't there anymore
[21:36:18] wagnerrp: so he checks to see if she was sitting or standing in the bathroom
[21:36:27] justinh: yeah just seen that
[21:36:30] wagnerrp: i couldnt bare to watch any further
[21:36:47] justinh: like I said it's about the best thing on BBC3 right now
[21:36:58] wagnerrp: dont do it... dont do it!... DONT DO IT!
[21:37:01] wagnerrp: so i turned it off
[21:37:22] stuartm: I was willing to take a look though, especially since there is _nothing_ else on right now – my backend is spending more time idle than at any point that I can remember
[21:37:24] justinh: what happened to the nice year indicator in the tmdb search results?
[21:37:46] justinh: now there just seems to be a list of TITLE TITLE TITLE with no year to differentiate em
[21:37:56] benkevan: yah.. looks like USB3 blackmagic is only 1080i Intensity will instantly switch between HD and SD video standards including HDTV 1080i/59.94, 1080i/50, 720p/59.94, 720p/50, NTSC and PAL
[21:38:24] justinh: benkevan: the only 1080P capture device for consumers, end of story & you need USB3
[21:38:43] justinh: and one hell of a disk array to put that kind of stuff down onto
[21:39:02] wagnerrp: justinh: the USB2 has a hardware encoder, does the USB3 one not?
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[21:39:15] justinh: wagnerrp: no encoding. raw uncompressed
[21:39:18] justinh: (they reckon)
[21:39:21] wagnerrp: ouch
[21:39:28] sphery: are there even Linux drivers for the blackmagic?
[21:39:34] justinh: no
[21:39:40] sphery: so windows only, right?
[21:39:43] justinh: yeah
[21:39:48] wagnerrp: yeah, but they they use some funky API
[21:39:51] benkevan: ewww yuck
[21:40:00] wagnerrp: they wont interface with standard V4L stuff
[21:40:01] sphery: figured it definitely wasn't V4L-compliant, but didn't know if they had some hack of a Linux driver
[21:40:04] benkevan: HD PVR is the best bet then?
[21:40:05] justinh: well whatever – it's likely way out of your reach
[21:40:10] sphery: ah, it might have a hack of a driver, then
[21:40:20] justinh: unless you can put >2Gb/sec onto your local disks
[21:40:29] justinh: and you ain't gonna be using mythtv with it
[21:40:37] wagnerrp: its not THAT bad... only 1.5Gbps
[21:40:38] justinh: or indeed tvtime, xawtv or whatever :P
[21:40:42] wagnerrp: thats a whole 25% less
[21:40:46] justinh: lol
[21:40:58] sphery: yeah, they've always concentrated on the video editing crowd--which is why they go uncompressed (allowing you to edit and then use lossy compression)
[21:41:05] AndyCap: wagnerrp: you don't need that many drives in parallel. :P
[21:41:12] sphery: so not surprised that the new one drops the encoding now that it has USB3
[21:41:16] wagnerrp: what is that, 175MB/s?
[21:41:31] wagnerrp: two drives striped, no problem
[21:41:41] justinh: they say "allows capture from HD cameras without having to suffer HDV compression artifacts"
[21:41:42] wagnerrp: (for the outer 60% anyway)
[21:42:07] benkevan: uggg.. any like the HD-PVR that are HDMI?
[21:42:11] benkevan: I'm a clean cable creak.
[21:42:12] justinh: I'm angling to get one for work so I can grab images from cameras I evaluate
[21:42:14] benkevan: freak* even.
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[21:42:30] justinh: benkevan: there's the Colossus PCI-e card with HDMI in
[21:42:32] stuartm: benkevan: Colossus
[21:42:37] wagnerrp: benkevan: HDMI capture wont do you any good
[21:42:40] justinh: but chances are it may not work with consoles
[21:42:41] AndyCap: btw, why would they go with hdmi in instead of sdi in?
[21:42:44] wagnerrp: the PS3 requires HDCP for output
[21:42:51] ThisNewGuy: iamlindoro: it should be fine – it generates each row based on the data available so if some lines are TV shows and some are movies it shouldn't be a big deal (other than some show banners and some show cover art)
[21:42:58] wagnerrp: AndyCap: capture from consumer video cameras
[21:43:10] wagnerrp: SDI really only shows up on cameras $10K and up
[21:43:38] AndyCap: with the rest of the stuff you need it's not like the camera is that expensive. :P
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[21:43:53] stuartm: I still think the logic of an HDMI capture card is shaky at best
[21:44:11] wagnerrp: its certainly very limiting
[21:44:16] sphery: at 12bpp (assuming you can get a 12-bit YUV or whatever), that's about 2.97MiB/frame, so at 1080p30, it's 88.99MiB/s and at 1080p60, it's 177.98MiB/s uncompressed
[21:45:07] benkevan: well I was hoping for something that was passthrough like the HD-PVR and was networked and not in a computer. Hummmm.. may have to rethink that strategy then if I want to reduce the number of cables behind my TV.
[21:45:15] sphery: Now, if you can't get 12bpp YUV--and it gives you 24bpp RGB, you'd need double the space/bandwidth... at 32bpp, you'd need 2 2/3 times the space/bandwidth
[21:45:18] justinh: networked? ROFL
[21:45:37] wagnerrp: sphery: where would you find 32bpp video?
[21:45:58] sphery: wagnerrp: you'd find 32bpp RGB output from decoding a video
[21:46:06] wagnerrp: no you wouldnt
[21:46:07] sphery: i.e. who knows what they're giving
[21:46:24] wagnerrp: you'd find 12bpp YUV, or 24bpp RGB
[21:46:30] AndyCap: Heh http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_quadro_sdi_capture_us.html
[21:46:37] wagnerrp: or 30bpp RGB
[21:47:25] benkevan: damn that colossus card looks huge, what size case do you think it'd fit into?
[21:47:31] sphery: wagnerrp: I agree that sending 32bpp doesn't make a lot of sense, but then again using RGB for video makes no sense, but that didn't stop Macromedia/Adobe
[21:47:43] wagnerrp: unless youre talking about something like the quattor tvs that decides to magically add in a fourth channel
[21:47:55] sphery: commone sense is /not/ a requirement of hardware/interface/software design
[21:48:13] AndyCap: or all that common
[21:48:19] justinh: HDMI can be RGB or YUV IIRC
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[21:49:15] justinh: meanwhile, back on planet Earth, where no mere mortals can even begin to dream about capturing 1080P video... :-D
[21:49:21] sphery: anyway, I have no clue what their hardware/drivers give, so I was giving ranges from expected smallest to largest
[21:49:27] benkevan: I really wanted somelike the the HD-PVR because I can plug into a laptop and just dump to instead of actually having a full MythTV box.. guess I should rethink that.
[21:49:48] justinh: so just get the HDPVR plugged into a laptop then
[21:49:50] sphery: guess I could have just left it as "it takes a whole lot of space/bandwidth to deal with uncompressed video"
[21:49:51] stuartm: what's wrong with the HD-PVR?
[21:50:07] justinh: you don't actually need mythtv for doing whatever you do like capping gameplay
[21:50:22] sphery: benkevan: don't assume that the HD-PVR is bad because it does 1080i instead of 1080p until you've at least seen the video quality
[21:50:23] justinh: and infact you've already been told you really wouldn't want it for that anyway
[21:50:40] benkevan: sphery: no, I'm just saying because it doesn't have HDMI and I'm a cable clutter freak.
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[21:50:59] sphery: ahh, yeah, that it doesn't have
[21:50:59] justinh: good grief
[21:51:17] justinh: how can you be like that & even own a console? lol
[21:52:06] justinh: I bet an HDFury isn't very big.. convert HDMI to component & away you go
[21:52:12] benkevan: sphery: plus I think I was looking for something very simplisted small good looking box w/ build enclosure that has a laptop in it that's connected that'd just be a dump for the data from the HD-PVR.. BUT think the better option will be something else (plus more than 1 input would be nice, i.e., one from Cable Box then one from PS3) so I need to see what I really want I guess.
[21:52:22] justinh: into the HD-PVR.. into a laptop
[21:52:35] sphery: wonder how long until someone asks how many nodes to devote use for the optimal MythTV database with ScaleBase...
[21:52:37] justinh: the moon on a stick seems to be what you want ;-)
[21:52:44] benkevan: justinh: Yah.. I know.. put component vs hdmi is a pretty big div.
[21:52:53] justinh: it isn't
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[21:53:29] sphery: benkevan: not a big difference in quality, likely... bigger difference in cable count than anything else
[21:53:49] benkevan: sphery: yah.. that's what I'm shooting for more.
[21:53:50] sphery: but HDMI is tough because of the DRM in it
[21:54:18] justinh: I already hate HDMI. so much for it being better than SCART... broken cables, broken sockets...
[21:54:45] benkevan: I should just see what type of cases are out there.. I'm sure something would look ok on a media table, and I could get a cable holder and seal them into 1.
[21:56:09] sphery: FWIW, I put my computers in a different room, drilled a hole through the wall, and ran cables to my TV and speakers... Having no components in my viewing room is a beautiful approach (that means I also don't have to worry about size/shape/beauty/fan noise, etc.)
[21:56:28] benkevan: you have recommendation of any onboard video inputs that would be fine for what I'm looking for?
[21:56:32] sphery: could do the same with a cabinet or closet and even running cables next to walls or whatever
[21:56:35] benkevan: sphery: behind my TV area is a toillet.
[21:56:42] justinh: onboard video inputs?
[21:56:51] benkevan: justinh: no mother boards with those yet? :(
[21:56:59] stuartm: justinh: I dunno, I think you're being too nostalgic about scart :) HDMI has given me significantly fewer problems than scart, I've yet to have cables work themselves lose despite nothing being moved for example
[21:57:02] sphery: heh, a toilet has a little closet on top... would give you liquid cooling, too!
[21:57:06] justinh: I doubt we'll ever see motherboards with video input
[21:57:28] benkevan: justinh: aren't those in TVs?
[21:57:29] justinh: stuartm: never had a SCART fall out, even with a 1-year old fiddling ;-)
[21:57:29] benkevan: ;)
[21:57:40] justinh: benkevan: you were talking about PC stuff
[21:58:26] benkevan: justinh: yes, but "doube we'll ever see" is kind of crazy, since I see the convergence of media into a PC being not too far away.. no?
[21:58:36] AndyCap: I think motherboards with video input came and went
[21:58:56] justinh: benkevan: nah, video inputs on consumer equipment capable of recording will never come about again
[21:59:00] stuartm: justinh: it's never fallen out, but I was always having it come lose under the weight of the cable so that certain pins (often audio, sometimes chroma) were no longer in contact
[21:59:14] justinh: stuartm: that's what I meant
[21:59:45] justinh: anyhoo, so where has the nice info gone from the tmdb search result list?
[22:00:52] AndyCap: Hehe, what do you know, they're not all gone. http://www.advantech.com/products/DVMB-554E/m . . . E8EBF15.aspx
[22:01:09] AndyCap: (not a solution for any mythtv users)
[22:02:40] justinh: AndyCap: eew. some of the competitors to the co I work for use stuff like that
[22:02:56] nooneami: If you want a quiet case, look for the Antec minuets
[22:03:08] nooneami: for a small one, or the Sonata range if you want a big hulking beast
[22:03:29] nooneami: both are quiet enough that the only things I can hear from mine are the hard disks
[22:05:21] wagnerrp: if you want a quiet case, get a bigger heatsink, a better PSU, and a fanless GPU
[22:05:39] wagnerrp: the case only matters if you have noisy stuff you have to worry about damping in the first place
[22:05:54] AndyCap: was actually pleasantly surprised by my fractal design case.
[22:07:06] stuartm: wagnerrp: decent airflow doesn't hurt if you want to keep the fans spinning at their minimum
[22:08:22] wagnerrp: true, but any cheap case will pull that off
[22:08:31] ** wagnerrp says this as the owner of several P180s **
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[22:10:52] wagnerrp: i just think all those antec noise dampening cases are too large and bulky to put next to my tv
[22:11:08] AndyCap: wagnerrp: get a bigger TV
[22:11:40] benkevan: http://www.xoxide.com/antec-skeleton-case.html < that's pretty cool.
[22:11:41] wagnerrp: there still a limit on how big of a case you can velcro onto the back of your tv
[22:12:02] wagnerrp: that case is retarded
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[22:12:07] stuartm: it's been a while since I saw a case I liked, at a price I liked, vast majority of cases even some of the high-end HTPC stuff just looks ugly as hell
[22:12:23] wagnerrp: if you want a test system, just buy a spare motherboard tray and bolt it to a desk
[22:13:08] wagnerrp: serves the same purpose, and you dont have some funky framework holding a fan above and getting in the way of swapping parts
[22:13:42] stuartm: if an ordinary case is a dust magnet, just imagine how often you'll need to be cleaning one that is completely open
[22:14:07] wagnerrp: stuartm: thats because too many of the high end HTPC stuff tries to explain its price through annoying bling
[22:14:22] wagnerrp: too few manufacturers understand the worth of subtlety
[22:14:48] wagnerrp: stuartm: the ide for that skeleton case is you are going to be frequently swapping parts, and dont want case walls to get in the way
[22:15:06] nooneami: If you want something to bolt on, get one of the zotac ions
[22:15:35] wagnerrp: id rather have something with a worthwhile amount of power behind it
[22:15:36] nooneami: sure, you can only use one tiny hard disk, but it fits nicely into a vesa bracket that can be bolted onto the back of most tvs
[22:15:49] wagnerrp: and theres no purpose to a hard drive on a frontend
[22:16:58] nooneami: sure there is, helps you isolate "questionable material" to the specific frontend. ;)
[22:17:10] ** kormoc blinks **
[22:17:33] wagnerrp: as in material you dont want certain frontends used by certain other people to be able to access?
[22:17:41] wagnerrp: younger people?
[22:18:01] nooneami: yes, like if you are really into watching Disney on ice, and don't want that crapping up the rest of your myth video library
[22:18:25] wagnerrp: well you have no choice really, you have to scan stuff into the database to be able to access it on any frontend
[22:18:29] wagnerrp: whether its local or not
[22:19:06] nooneami: Really? Even in browse mode?
[22:19:16] wagnerrp: we dont speak of browse mode around here
[22:19:21] nooneami: heh
[22:19:25] wagnerrp: besides to dissuade people from using it
[22:20:00] wagnerrp: browse mode brings with it all sorts of strange and unexpected behavior
[22:20:19] wagnerrp: and many of people's complaints of mythtv stem from them turning on browse mode
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[22:21:56] wagnerrp: no, if someone wanted access to transient content, they should tie in the media monitor to rescan when a mobile drive is inserted
[22:22:23] wagnerrp: there already is partial support for XML metadata files to store information on transient content
[22:22:45] wagnerrp: or if they wanted to block access to content, there are parental controls
[22:23:01] AndyCap: btw. anyone running mythtv on centos/scientific linux 6?
[22:23:03] sphery: browse mode should die!!!
[22:23:15] nooneami: I disagree.
[22:23:26] nooneami: Browse mode is awesome.
[22:23:27] wagnerrp: or even better, pick up the deceased GSoC project for user mode
[22:23:36] wagnerrp: s/awesome/awful/
[22:23:38] sphery: like you said, confusion over what it is seems to be a huge percentage of the mythvideo related "bugs" that are reported
[22:23:52] wagnerrp: name one good thing you can do with browse mode that you cant with normal mode
[22:24:15] sphery: get your videos displayed without appropriate metadata?
[22:24:18] nooneami: They should call it "see all files" and have it show "local files" and "files on backend"
[22:24:24] nooneami: if it is so confusing
[22:24:32] wagnerrp: nooneami: why do you want local files?
[22:24:43] wagnerrp: we want to remove all local file access from the frontend entirely
[22:24:46] sphery: they should call it "see files without metadata and other niceties that you really want"
[22:25:01] nooneami: or that – some times, the niceties are not really necessary.
[22:25:03] AndyCap: or just call it pron mode?
[22:25:17] wagnerrp: and thats not even what what browse mode does, as you can use it over storage groups
[22:25:42] wagnerrp: nooneami: if you dont want the metadata niceties, either use a theme that doesnt display them, or simply dont populate them in the first place
[22:26:19] nooneami: Case in point, your buddy gives you a season of some obscure chinese tv show. 26 files with name like 01x01 – Lee Fhu Tan.avi, and 25 more.
[22:26:48] nooneami: What is the point of doing metadata niceties on it? No point – it is a one time, watch and toss thing, just needs to live on the local frontend while being watched.
[22:27:19] wagnerrp: well besides the fact that even such 'darknet' or 'sneakernet' sharing is beyond the scope of reproach
[22:27:27] sphery: umm, doesn't it live on the buddy's frontend and you watch it when you're invited over for dinner
[22:27:28] wagnerrp: it is still against the ideals of the project
[22:27:45] nooneami: Who said it is not free content?
[22:27:46] sphery: since I'm sure even "obscrure chines tv show[s]" are copyrighted...
[22:28:10] wagnerrp: for the sake of argument
[22:28:11] sphery: wow, I really mistyped that one
[22:28:26] wagnerrp: lets say he gives you a disk full of legitimately free content downloaded off the web
[22:28:34] wagnerrp: you plug the disk into your frontend
[22:28:59] wagnerrp: the proper procedure is that the mediamonitor picks up on the new device mounted to one of your pre-defined shared folders
[22:29:06] wagnerrp: triggers the scanner, adds the content
[22:29:24] wagnerrp: scans for metadata based off whether you have that enabled
[22:29:34] wagnerrp: and makes the content available to your whole network
[22:29:43] AndyCap: that reminds me to check for some new legitimate content
[22:30:31] wagnerrp: when the scan is complete, a notice is sent out to all frontends, any inside mythvideo refresh their lists
[22:30:53] skd5aner: for any "Mad Men" fans out there – might want to check out this show tonight – http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/arch . . . tter/243741/
[22:31:07] wagnerrp: now lets compare with browse mode
[22:31:31] wagnerrp: you connect the drive, and lets say you have the drive defined as a local store
[22:31:45] wagnerrp: you have to back out of mythvideo, wait a couple seconds, and then go back in
[22:32:03] wagnerrp: then it has to scan your local store folders, as well as all your defined storage groups on all defined backends
[22:32:14] wagnerrp: if all your backends are running, great
[22:32:23] wagnerrp: if some arent running, you have to wait for those connections to time out
[22:32:53] wagnerrp: if any of those storage group folders are further remote mounted over CIFS from a third machine, then you have all sorts of additional latency issues
[22:33:22] wagnerrp: all told the process is very time consuming, and you are stuck to accessing the content from only that one machine you plugged the drive into
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[22:39:15] sphery: wagnerrp: sounds like you made the case for browse mode to die... now we just have to get rid of it (and re-train people who actually still use it)
[22:39:39] wagnerrp: sphery: well, theres also a fair bit of that yet to be hooked up for that all to work
[22:40:00] wagnerrp: but its certainly the case as to why browse mode should be removed in favor of something much much better
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[22:41:49] nooneami: Or..
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[22:42:16] sphery: wagnerrp: only thing really missing is the automatically triggered scan, right--and that's something that really needs system-level integration since we're too limited by inotify or whatever to do it automatically for all the users dirs, right?
[22:42:24] nooneami: Your friend give you a disk, you plug it in, set it to copy while you wander downstairs to the pub for a drink. and when you come back, you hand him the disk back.
[22:42:32] sphery: so it's better for a script or distro config to manage that
[22:42:45] nooneami: Whenever you are ready to watch, you pull up myth video in browse mode, and done.
[22:43:24] wagnerrp: nooneami: again, you plug the disk in, mediamonitor detects the content
[22:43:36] wagnerrp: you have the mount point set as an import path
[22:43:51] wagnerrp: so it automatically copies all found content onto your array, and scans in the new content
[22:44:14] nooneami: yeah, but you don't want 26 episodes of whatever copying over and sitting around for eternity
[22:44:29] nooneami: At least, that is my use case. You don't have to agree with it, or even use it that way. ;)
[22:44:32] wagnerrp: thats why mythvideo allows you to delete content from within the UI
[22:46:28] wagnerrp: the point is, there is nothing browse mode can accomplish that cant be better handled through another mechanism
[22:46:42] wagnerrp: if all you want is a basic file browser, mythtv is too complex for your needs
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[22:48:16] nooneami: the other use case, I have a hdpvr hooked up to a mac, sometimes I set it to grab a series of recordings. It records everything, with names like True Blood – I Wish I Was the Moon.eyetv, converts it to m4v and places it into a folder named True Blood, with a final filename like I Wish I Was the Moon.m4v
[22:49:08] wagnerrp: so write a script that triggers when the file is finished recording, that inserts it into the database
[22:49:11] kormoc: and so after it copies it, you ask the backend to rescan...
[22:49:23] nooneami: yeah, just don't see why the rescan is so important
[22:49:32] wagnerrp: or better... plug the HDPVR into mythtv directly, and just access it through 'watch recordings'
[22:49:41] nooneami: what does the rescan do other than do the db insert, which is pointless
[22:50:18] wagnerrp: the database insert prevents you from having to scan the folder every time you want to access your content
[22:50:25] wagnerrp: do you have a music collection?
[22:50:27] nooneami: it takes but a sec
[22:50:30] nooneami: nope
[22:50:30] kormoc: if you don't like the added benefit of our db stuff and you're recording outside of myth, why are you even using myth?
[22:50:45] nooneami: Oh, I use myth – have a couple of hdvpvrs on myth
[22:51:20] nooneami: I like using the hdpvr on mac to grab and auto convert old series for storage and for easy iTunes sync with iPads for travel
[22:51:51] nooneami: The eyetv user interface sucks donkey cojones
[22:52:35] nooneami: but the ease of use of iTunes sync and remote iPad streaming makes it awesome for that specific use case.
[22:53:09] sphery: still don't see any reason to keep the content out of the mythtv database and--for those who use themes that support them--have all the metadata with it
[22:53:44] sphery: anyway, it seems to me that browse mode causes more problems than it solves (i.e. > 0 ;), so I'd love to see it disappear
[22:54:03] nooneami: yeah, guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I just don't see the value of metadata for transient content like tv show episodes. For movies that you want to keep around for a while, sure, it is shiny.
[22:54:40] sphery: but you don't need the metadata--just don't put in metadata for it if you don't want it for that
[22:55:07] sphery: so only difference is whether there's a scan or not--and if that's all automatic, then you wouldn't even know if there's a scan, so why would you care?  :)
[22:55:23] wagnerrp: nooneami: the idea is that recordings are transient content, while anything in mythvideo is a long term archive
[22:55:49] nooneami: yeah, I think it is a matter of differing use cases
[22:55:58] sphery: (though recordings are transient content that's created by mythtv recorders--it's not a place to import random media from random sources :)
[22:56:33] nooneami: for me, myth video is a transient archive unless I make an active decision to keep for perpetuity(or till the disk crashes)
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[22:57:34] sphery: funny thing is that wagnerrp's description fits my use case... I have tons of recordings and almost no MythVideo content, but I do watch and delete recordings.
[22:57:53] sphery: I'm just not a collector, so don't keep stuff in MythVideo.
[22:57:53] nooneami: What would be awesome, though, now that I think about it would be a "export series to myth video" option
[22:58:04] sphery: that's coming...  :)
[22:58:10] wagnerrp: thats here?
[22:58:14] nooneami: is it?
[22:58:19] wagnerrp: http://mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvidexport.py
[22:58:27] wagnerrp: add it as a user job
[22:58:34] wagnerrp: move the series into a playlist
[22:58:34] sphery: or, really, an option to show a video in either mythtv recordings or mythvideo videos view
[22:58:41] wagnerrp: run the user job on the whole playlist
[22:59:52] wagnerrp: been able to do that since i wrote it for 0.23
[23:00:21] wagnerrp: actually, that script spawned the rewrite of the python bindings
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[23:01:40] nooneami: man, that is too much work. I am a mythtv user, not a mythv dev. ;) I want a nice shiny rounded button on the recordings schedule tab, or on a specific recording. ;)
[23:04:16] wagnerrp: right, thats the point of the script
[23:04:22] wagnerrp: to allow you to have that little button
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[23:10:18] ** sphery curses Switch to Tab **
[23:11:28] marsilainen: woo I ordered my mythtv hardware
[23:11:30] marsilainen: excitement
[23:12:11] nooneami: what did you end up getting?
[23:12:22] nooneami: paste bom in here
[23:12:31] marsilainen: for my frontend/backend I've ordered this: http://www.asrock.com/nettop/overview.asp?Mod . . . 03D%20Series
[23:12:54] marsilainen: and for tuners I ordered this: http://www.onevideo.co.uk/silicondust-hd-homerun3.html
[23:13:01] marsilainen: sorry, what is bom?
[23:13:46] wagnerrp: bin, with a shifted right hand
[23:13:57] nooneami: bill of materials
[23:14:02] marsilainen: ah
[23:14:32] sphery: heh, I'd hope it would be a pastebin to the bom
[23:15:01] marsilainen: sorry...
[23:15:14] marsilainen: at the time of my paste I didn't know what bom was :)
[23:15:27] marsilainen: but 2 items isn't too bad I hope ;)
[23:15:27] nooneami: I miss my HDHomerun
[23:15:49] sphery: no, your pastes were fine--but a real bill of materials pasted into here would be spamming the channel
[23:15:56] marsilainen: :)
[23:16:44] nooneami: what enlightened cable provider do you have that allows you access to unencrypted qam feeds?
[23:16:48] marsilainen: anyway, after much deliberation (and expense) I hope those should see me to a reasonable set-up at least
[23:17:22] marsilainen: it's not cable – it's UK 'Freeview' terrestrial
[23:17:26] sphery: marsilainen: you have core i + nvidia vdpau-capable gpu + hdhr, so I'd say you did good
[23:17:37] marsilainen: sphery: phew
[23:17:49] nooneami: Ah
[23:17:56] marsilainen: I have taken people's advice on here on board
[23:18:13] marsilainen: (and doubled the cost from my initial spec in the process!)
[23:18:18] wagnerrp: when i saw asrock nettop, i was initially worried
[23:18:27] sphery: i.e. real cpu (not a toy/Atom), real GPU with good Linux drivers and VDPAU capability, and a nice tuner (though haven't heard much about it in DVB land, it works great here in the US)
[23:18:48] sphery: wagnerrp: heh, when I saw Vision Series, I was worried (thought it was AMD GPU)
[23:19:26] nooneami: That does look much nicer than my antecs for sure
[23:19:27] sphery: marsilainen: which cpu did you get?
[23:19:29] marsilainen: and into the deal I get something which looks nice and is hopefully fairly quiet (only 1 fan)
[23:19:41] marsilainen: I've only got the i3 I'm afraid
[23:19:49] marsilainen: I'm hoping that will do enough?
[23:19:59] marsilainen: I realise it's not the top end...
[23:20:01] wagnerrp: what i3, specifically?
[23:20:08] marsilainen: I think i3 370?
[23:20:12] marsilainen: if that means something?
[23:20:20] sphery: yeah, it's pretty... maybe a good "off the shelf" replacement for the mac mini now that mac mini has gone Intel GMA or AMD GPU only
[23:20:23] marsilainen: I'm not up on CPUs these days hehe
[23:20:31] wagnerrp: one of the older 1156 chips?
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[23:20:51] wagnerrp: in any case, not one of the mobile ones, so it should be plenty fast
[23:21:13] marsilainen: I think it *is* a mobile one
[23:21:15] marsilainen: is that going to be a problem?
[23:21:15] sphery: yeah, and i3 may well be a lot lower energy usage than i7 (not to mention the cost savings on the cpu itself)
[23:21:34] sphery: yeah, I'm seeing an i3–370M with 3MB cache, 2.4GHz
[23:21:38] wagnerrp: sphery: well that depends on whether its a real i7, or one like beirdo has
[23:21:38] nooneami: Was the old mac mini(with the nvidia chip) a good backend/frontend box?
[23:21:39] sphery: http://ark.intel.com/products/49020/Intel-Cor . . . -2_40-GHz%29
[23:21:49] ** wagnerrp continues with the jabs **
[23:22:06] sphery: nooneami: it was one of the few small, pretty, off-the-shelf designs that made a decent frontend
[23:22:14] stuartm: marsilainen: how much did the Vision cost? It looks like an attractive proposition if I wanted to add a bedroom frontend
[23:22:22] marsilainen: expensive.
[23:22:27] marsilainen:
[23:22:52] marsilainen: which I think is about $800 us?
[23:23:02] stuartm: hmm, yeah, it's not exactly an impulse buy but still ...
[23:23:27] marsilainen: if you download the manual you will see the way they have used heatpipes etc on the gpu
[23:23:33] sphery: yeah, here in the US, they have the i3–370M for $749.99 open box at newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856158018R
[23:23:35] kormoc: the mini is cheaper, but the Vision 3D is certainly much more powerful
[23:23:38] marsilainen: so there is only one fan on the cpu, which is nice
[23:23:46] sphery: and a i5–560M (new) for $929.99
[23:23:51] sphery: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856158019
[23:24:04] nooneami: whoa, that is expensive
[23:24:18] sphery: so, not something that will sway the people buying cheap (and underperforming) Atom/ION boxes
[23:24:27] marsilainen: indeed
[23:24:37] kormoc: sphery, it's a step tho, a few more and we'll see
[23:24:56] sphery: those who would rather buy cheap and complain that MythTV doesn't work when their underperforming system can't keep up...
[23:25:01] nooneami: yeah, overkill for a pure frontednd, I'd think.
[23:25:02] marsilainen: so what chance that my i3 370 will have good enough performance?
[23:25:09] wagnerrp: odd that its MORE expensive than the mini, considering it uses a cheaper desktop processor
[23:25:10] marsilainen: (mobile that is)
[23:25:15] stuartm: marsilainen: it will be fine
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[23:25:34] marsilainen: well, I would say that not really odd – apple can build/sell more units
[23:25:37] stuartm: more than powerful enough, especially considering the VDPAU capable GPU
[23:25:39] marsilainen: economy of scale...
[23:25:46] sphery: kormoc: definitely... and since one manufacturer is getting into similar-to-mini designs, perhaps others will join and competition will drive prices down
[23:25:52] nooneami: Dude, my old pentium dual core works fine with dual 1080i streams being recorded/transcoded
[23:25:55] nooneami: you'll be just fine
[23:26:01] marsilainen: cool :)
[23:26:15] marsilainen: I shall report back next week in any case :)
[23:26:21] wagnerrp: stuartm: well at least the last to generations of mini were VDPAU capable
[23:26:26] marsilainen: now to look into mythtv distros...
[23:26:36] wagnerrp: last generation used the GT320M, and the one before that ran a 9400M
[23:26:39] sphery: marsilainen: yeah, that should be a very good system--I think you'll like it
[23:26:41] kormoc is now known as kormoc_afk
[23:26:47] marsilainen: I'm most familiar with ubuntu on desktop, so is there any reason to use anything other than mythbuntu?
[23:26:48] wagnerrp: it was an ION! :P
[23:26:55] nooneami: Mythtubuntu or Mythdora
[23:27:01] nooneami: can't go wrong with either.
[23:27:05] wagnerrp: hear that sphery? kormoc runs his backend on an ION
[23:27:08] marsilainen: cool
[23:27:12] stuartm: marsilainen: you could even say it's over-powered, but it's better to have the extra grunt and not need it than the other way around
[23:27:21] sphery: and current Mac Mini 2011 is either Intel HD 3000 or AMD Radeon HD6630M
[23:27:22] marsilainen: agreed L(
[23:27:37] nooneami: You can run a backend on an ion, as long as you don't want commflag or transcode.
[23:27:43] sphery: wagnerrp: I didn't hear that... where?
[23:27:49] wagnerrp: nooneami: you misunderstand me
[23:27:59] sphery: oh, you mean the 9400M
[23:28:02] sphery: heh
[23:28:04] marsilainen: wow, blimey after 2 weeks of playing devils advocate on here with different setups I've ended up with something that no one is really complaining about lol
[23:28:05] wagnerrp: ION originally meant the 9400M chip paired with an Atom processor
[23:28:23] wagnerrp: nvidia's marketing department later revised that to any system using a 9400M
[23:28:26] sphery: that part of the ION is fine... it's just that one atom does not a CPU make
[23:28:37] wagnerrp: and then later revised that again to mean the 9400M itself
[23:28:43] wagnerrp: such that you can buy ION graphics cards
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[23:29:13] sphery: marsilainen: I'm so content with your purchase that if you'd like to buy another and send it my way, I would be ecstatic
[23:29:22] nooneami: ah, interesting. marketing dweebs make the world go round
[23:29:34] wagnerrp: with the rebranding, one of the versions of the Mac Mini can be considered an ION system
[23:29:35] marsilainen: sphery: lol, sure, paypal me the funds? :)
[23:29:58] sphery: of course, then I'd actually have a pretty and small frontend system and couldn't tell people about how I buy big and ugly and stash it in another room
[23:30:01] ** Beirdo slaps wagnerrp with an i7 **
[23:30:13] nooneami: sphery: I know what you are saying. That box is very tempting.
[23:30:27] nooneami: Though, the BD drive is a bit wasted
[23:30:27] sphery: Beirdo: from what I hear, you're actually slapping him with a re-badged lesser proc
[23:30:31] wagnerrp: Beirdo: hey, ive got no problem with your processor, its a fine chip
[23:30:40] wagnerrp: its just not a high performance, power hungry i7
[23:30:54] marsilainen: nooneami: the price I gave was for the DVD only version – the blueray is even more :/
[23:31:01] wagnerrp: i7s were indicated by the triple channel memory... until marketing dweebs got their hands on it
[23:31:09] marsilainen: nooneami: FYI, I bout the '137D' model of it
[23:31:18] sphery: nooneami: yeah, I'm not a fan of BD, either... I'm still buying DVDs as the lesser of 2 evils (when it comes to DRM)
[23:31:28] marsilainen: I think the 'BD' models are the blueray versions
[23:31:37] marsilainen:
[23:31:50] sphery: marsilainen: yeah, the ones I linked on newegg for the US guys were BD Combo Slot-in Optical Drives
[23:31:56] wagnerrp: Beirdo: its an i5 with hyperthreading... :)
[23:31:59] nooneami: Ah, the new egg version seems to have BD.
[23:32:25] wagnerrp: oh, and the Intel ads they have on TV these days
[23:32:25] sphery: but it does sound like some futuristic robot... BD BD BD
[23:32:26] nooneami: sphery: I was a big denier of BD. Till Tron came out.
[23:32:32] marsilainen: whilst I'm here, has anyone had success at making these dvd drives quieter – eg. by forcing them to run at slower speed?
[23:32:36] wagnerrp: advertising the "second generation Core processor"
[23:32:46] wagnerrp: WTF... those came out in like 2007, its called the Core 2
[23:32:55] sphery: nooneami: for the effects or some other Wilde visuals?
[23:33:16] wagnerrp: and there were three generations of that, followed by one more of Core-i, before the current generation
[23:33:28] nooneami: shiny leather, 46 inch screen, high def – enough said
[23:33:29] wagnerrp: meaning... were on the... sixth generation Core processor
[23:33:37] wagnerrp: stupid marketing folk
[23:33:55] sphery: wagnerrp: FWIW, on this one I'll agree with marketing--Core was /not/ a Core processor (it was a P-M)
[23:34:03] sphery: actually, a slightly damaged P-M
[23:34:14] marsilainen: also the IR remote seems to use an 'ehome' receiver – I think this should work ok with lirc? but if anyone has experiences...
[23:34:17] wagnerrp: damaged?
[23:34:20] nooneami: Don't knock those. My primary runs on one of those. :P
[23:34:22] wagnerrp: what did they remove?
[23:34:35] wagnerrp: nooneami: your primary is a 5yr old laptop?
[23:35:32] nooneami: No, there was a set of Core Pentium procs
[23:35:47] nooneami: At least, I think there was. Gotta go look at my new egg purchase history
[23:35:52] sphery: mainly FPUs, IIRC
[23:36:07] sphery: not to mention performance per watt
[23:36:08] wagnerrp: there are Core processors rebranded as Pentium Ms, there are Core 2 processors rebranded as Pentium Dual Cores
[23:36:46] nooneami: Ah, must have been the Pentium Dual Cores
[23:36:48] Beirdo: whatever
[23:36:55] sphery: but it was a nice stopgap between NetBust and a real arch (Core 2)
[23:36:59] Beirdo: the brand on the outside is arbitrary
[23:37:03] Beirdo: use the core name
[23:37:16] Beirdo: otherwise you are being as silly as the marketing people
[23:37:22] wagnerrp: sphery: are you talking about the core solos? which were core duos with one core poorly disabled
[23:37:37] wagnerrp: meaning half the performance, but nearly all the same power requirements
[23:38:17] nooneami: Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80571E5200
[23:38:30] Statts (Statts!~Statts@27-33-85-127.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:38:34] sphery: no, talking about the Core Solo and Core Duo--the ones prior to the Core microarchitecture
[23:38:45] Seeker`: any opinions on this for a backend:
[23:38:47] Beirdo: right, that's a Wolfdale regardless of what brand they have on it
[23:38:53] wagnerrp: yeah, the wolfdales are late moderl Core 2 Duo chips, with limited cache
[23:38:54] Seeker`: http://pastebin.com/5KeLEytX
[23:39:26] nooneami: Yeah, for some reason, they were cheaper. I think it was the limited cache.
[23:39:27] wagnerrp: Seeker`: youre going to buy a bunch of URLs?
[23:39:49] Seeker`: wagnerrp: yeah, didn't you know? All hardware is being replaced by URLs now
[23:39:55] wagnerrp: nooneami: yeah, less cache, lower FSB from their Core 2 branded brethren
[23:39:59] wagnerrp: otherwise identical silicon
[23:42:12] wagnerrp: ditch the WD Greens if you can
[23:42:39] wagnerrp: that fractal case just looks like a re-engineered P180B
[23:42:55] Seeker`: why ditch the WD?
[23:43:13] wagnerrp: first, the greens have a nasty head parking behavior
[23:43:19] wagnerrp: they do it after 8 seconds of inactivity
[23:43:25] croppa (croppa!~stuart@CPE-120-146-137-99.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:43:44] wagnerrp: so certain IO behaviors can cause that to cycle very frequency, and drastically shorten the lifespan of the disk
[23:43:56] wagnerrp: second, its an EARS disk, which means 4K sectors rather than 512B sectors
[23:44:02] wagnerrp: which in theory is a good thing
[23:44:11] wagnerrp: but WD really botched the implementation
[23:44:33] wagnerrp: meaning unless you do some screwy formatting on it, performance on everything but modern windows with the WD drivers goes to hell
[23:44:45] wagnerrp: hard drives arent supposed to need drivers to tell the system how to behave
[23:44:56] wagnerrp: the interface is simply supposed to do the right thing
[23:45:05] marsilainen: doesn't a backend need some capture devices?
[23:45:23] Seeker`: marsilainen: already got one in another system that I am replacing
[23:45:29] marsilainen: ah
[23:46:01] sphery: yeah, the 8s inactivity thing is terrible--I did the possibly-warranty-busting firmware update (using a firmware they released for enterprise customers) because of it
[23:46:18] Seeker`: wagnerrp: any drives you would recommend instead?
[23:46:40] sphery: actually, was just writing a setting to the firmware, but still might be a bad thing for warranty support since it wasn't approved for use on the WD Greens
[23:47:13] wagnerrp: does the enterprise firmware fix the sector issues too?
[23:47:26] stuartm: the WD Greens also have that screwed up firmware which tries to send the disk to sleep every few seconds and which ultimately shortens their lifespan significantly – I won't be buying another in a hurry
[23:47:40] ** stuartm notes that sphery mentioned it already **
[23:47:46] ** wagnerrp did too **
[23:48:10] wagnerrp: stuartm: actually, i bought two, and had to replace one within a couple weeks due to it futzing up
[23:48:21] marsilainen: presumably that costs time when it wakes up again too?
[23:48:38] wagnerrp: that was just days after i had copied all my hddvd rips over to it, and deleted them to free up space on my array
[23:48:43] stuartm: ok, I was picking over the backlog and missed some bits ;)
[23:48:52] wagnerrp: i figured, screw it, ive got the disks, i wont bother trying to recover them
[23:49:06] wagnerrp: and yet... about a dozen of those movies are irrecoverable now
[23:49:19] stuartm: fwiw, it's not even possible to fix the firmware with some motherboards/sata controllers
[23:49:22] marsilainen: anyway, it's getting late in the uk... will report back once I have my hardware :)
[23:49:23] wagnerrp: shi--- a-- HDDVD format with no shelf life
[23:49:34] stuartm: their flashing/writing app crashes
[23:49:38] wagnerrp: the things were only like a year old and already failed
[23:49:40] Seeker`: Any suggestions for better disk makers then?
[23:49:44] wagnerrp: WTF
[23:49:45] stuartm: which was the case for me
[23:49:57] stuartm: Seeker`: I swear by Samsung
[23:49:58] wagnerrp: Seeker`: anything but the WD Greens
[23:50:11] Seeker`: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php . . . ;subcat=1955 ?
[23:50:17] wagnerrp: definitely anything but the WD Green EARS drives
[23:50:27] wagnerrp: if it has EARS, avoid
[23:50:32] wagnerrp: like the plague
[23:51:18] stuartm: all my drives are now Samsung 5400rpm drives, same as the WD Green but without all the hassle and to my ears they are quieter too
[23:51:38] wagnerrp: actually, the WDs are something funky like 5900rpm
[23:51:41] wagnerrp: so are the seagates
[23:51:46] Statts (Statts!~Statts@27-33-85-127.static.tpgi.com.au) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[23:51:48] stuartm: the latest is also a 4K drive, which I have no performance issues with
[23:52:07] wagnerrp: is it a proper 4K drive?
[23:52:16] wagnerrp: or is it a 4K drive that lies?
[23:52:41] sphery: wagnerrp: how is the green lying?
[23:53:02] wagnerrp: by saying its a 512B disk to everything but Windows systems with the special driver
[23:53:25] sphery: ah, yeah: kernel: sd 1:0:0:0: [sdb] 3907029168 512-byte logical blocks: (2.00 TB/1.81 TiB)
[23:53:38] sphery: but at least it reports kernel: sd 1:0:0:0: [sdb] 4096-byte physical blocks
[23:53:44] stuartm: wagnerrp: heh, I didn't even know that some of them lied :) It's the 2TB Spinpoint F4 (HD204UI)
[23:53:50] sphery: my Samsung F4 reports 512 physical and it's 4096 physical
[23:53:56] wagnerrp: you want the truth, WinXP cant handle the truth
[23:54:00] wagnerrp: so we all suffer
[23:54:19] wagnerrp: theres that grade school teacher mentality all over again
[23:54:25] sphery: with current GNU/Linux tools, they'll use physical, so they'll properly handle the WD, but not the F4
[23:54:34] stuartm: sphery: huh, I'd noticed that but assumed that it was true of all 4K drives
[23:54:42] sphery: (because the F4 lies on both physical and logical numbers)
[23:54:46] wagnerrp: take away everyone's toys because the slow children cant handle them
[23:55:04] marsilainen (marsilainen!~matt@host-2-99-132-38.as13285.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[23:55:13] sphery: yeah, the 512 allows you to use it inefficiently with old software... but at least new software is using physical
[23:55:37] sphery: just have to be careful to make sure you're using sufficiently new software versions or do it manually
[23:55:49] stuartm: I formatted/aligned for 4K, but I've not benchmarked beyond copying over files to it which went speedily enough
[23:56:07] sphery: (I did it manually, even with new stuff, because I didn't like the way the auto stuff did it--it wasted 1MB of space for a Windows NTFS layout of partitions)
[23:56:37] sphery: in theory it's mainly the random writes that will be slower if you partition incorrectly, right?
[23:56:42] wagnerrp: oh no! thats half a second of wasted recordings!
[23:56:44] wagnerrp: :P
[23:56:44] sphery: so for MythTV it's probably not a big deal
[23:56:57] sphery: wagnerrp: heh, it's wasted because I'll never use NTFS on them
[23:57:09] sphery: cfdisk -s 56 ftw!
[23:57:30] wagnerrp: presumably its intelligent enough that for bulk reads and writes, the cache makes everything run properly
[23:57:44] wagnerrp: but hey, they made their disks lie in the first place
[23:58:08] sphery: at least they don't use Seagate only SMART
[23:58:29] sphery: so what's left, now... WD bought Hitachi and Seagate bought Samsung?
[23:58:41] sphery: is there anyone else?
[23:58:51] wagnerrp: WD bought maxtor too
[23:58:57] wagnerrp: maxtor bought quantum
[23:59:00] sphery: yeah, but that was a while
[23:59:05] wagnerrp: hitachi bought ibm
[23:59:09] sphery: heh
[23:59:11] stuartm: Hitachi bought IBM before that
[23:59:23] sphery: I mean who's left, now?
[23:59:28] wagnerrp: sphery: i think its spreading
[23:59:50] sphery: wagnerrp starts with w... worm starts with w... Oh no, we have an IRC worm!
[23:59:54] nooneami: use hitachis
[23:59:57] nooneami: Samsungs are junk

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