| Saturday, April 9th, 2011, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:00] | sphery: | I go big, ugly, and loud as it wants to be, but put the system in a different room from my tv/speakers and run cables through the wall (could do the same with a closet or whatever) |
| [00:00:59] | sphery: | and I've been buying my systems for about $150 or less for motherboard, RAM, CPU (and reuse older cases and (80-PLUS, efficient) PSUs) |
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| [00:01:24] | bumblebeebat: | Ahhh, a great idea but unfortunately this system will be out there in the living rooom and there is not closet within close proximity |
| [00:01:49] | sphery: | at the bottom of the post I linked is a link to a Tom's Hardware article about a 25W performance PC using core i5 |
| [00:02:12] | sphery: | you can also do a relatively low power Core 2 Duo (maybe 35W at idle) |
| [00:02:32] | bumblebeebat: | ok, not bad at all |
| [00:02:32] | sphery: | the Mac Mini does 10W, but is relatively expensive... they use the Core 2 Duo Mobile, which is a lot of the cost |
| [00:03:07] | sphery: | could build your own system based on that, but you'd be limited in motherboard and chipset selection, so I'd say just go Core i3/i5, instead |
| [00:03:20] | sphery: | and, ideally, go with an nvidia video card that supports VDPAU |
| [00:03:22] | bumblebeebat: | ahhh, have you ever heard of anyone using http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It . . . 12-_-Product |
| [00:03:34] | sphery: | then, your system can spend almost all its time at idle |
| [00:03:54] | sphery: | oh, and best power savings come from powering off when not in use |
| [00:03:58] | bumblebeebat: | It looks like a nettop with a dual core chip in it |
| [00:04:30] | sphery: | It's a Celeron chip, so not ideal |
| [00:04:33] | bumblebeebat: | and an ion chip from graphics |
| [00:04:49] | sphery: | the "ION" chipset (nvidia graphics) is a good choice |
| [00:04:58] | sphery: | but a better CPU would be nicer |
| [00:05:46] | sphery: | you'd have to ask someone else who knows CPUs better for his opinion on that system |
| [00:05:59] | bumblebeebat: | I think, but I am not sure, that the new celerons are just cache limited dual core 2's |
| [00:06:06] | sphery: | maybe wagnerrp will speak up... :) |
| [00:06:45] | sphery: | 1.2GHz, though, is pretty slow |
| [00:06:51] | bumblebeebat: | No thanks for the suggestions, Had a nice built die tonights ago |
| [00:06:56] | sphery: | especially since video decoding is single-threaded |
| [00:07:29] | sphery: | generally we recommend a 2.6GHz Core 2 Duo or better |
| [00:07:34] | bumblebeebat: | OK |
| [00:07:36] | sphery: | or similar Athlon II |
| [00:07:52] | bumblebeebat: | the video decoding could fall on the ion though |
| [00:08:04] | sphery: | when VDPAU can handle it, it can |
| [00:08:14] | sphery: | when you use Flash, it may not |
| [00:08:27] | sphery: | when you play back some partly corrupt recording, it probably can't |
| [00:08:54] | sphery: | software decode is generally more tolerant--and can be updated by downloading the new version of MythTV |
| [00:08:59] | bumblebeebat: | ahhhh, very good point, I have a problem with some recordings playback on my ion |
| [00:09:00] | sphery: | so it's nice to have it as a fallback |
| [00:09:07] | bumblebeebat: | ion/atom |
| [00:09:12] | sphery: | yeah |
| [00:09:26] | sphery: | that said, in the interest of full disclosure, I am a confirmed Atom hater |
| [00:09:40] | sphery: | and there are many users who at least claim to be happy with Atom-based systems for MythTV |
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| [00:09:49] | sphery: | and, I presume, don't mind living with the limitations |
| [00:09:58] | bumblebeebat: | hahahaha |
| [00:10:30] | sphery: | IMHO, Atom is just a marketing ploy that allows Intel to sell bad, cheap chips for high prices |
| [00:10:56] | sphery: | they call them "low power", but they're only low power because they artificially limit their power usage--and compute capabilities |
| [00:11:19] | sphery: | and they have no appreciable idle mode power savings--so whether at idle or full load, they're sucking the same juice |
| [00:11:33] | sphery: | the Mac Mini idles at 10W, a typical Atom-based system at 30W |
| [00:11:35] | bumblebeebat: | it sure does, over driven pentium 3 chips with smaller architecture |
| [00:11:44] | sphery: | isn't it more like P4 |
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| [00:11:52] | sphery: | the old NetBurst architecture? |
| [00:12:00] | sphery: | maybe not... I don't remember |
| [00:12:19] | bumblebeebat: | I remember p3 but either way |
| [00:12:24] | bumblebeebat: | old old old |
| [00:12:28] | sphery: | yeah, definitely old |
| [00:12:50] | bumblebeebat: | what is the best way to power of the systems |
| [00:12:50] | sphery: | but cheap to make |
| [00:13:05] | sphery: | in general, a normal power off should be fine |
| [00:13:20] | sphery: | so, if you have the acpi "button" kernel module installed, hit the power button on the system |
| [00:13:26] | sphery: | or you can run sudo poweroff |
| [00:13:28] | sphery: | or whatever |
| [00:13:38] | bumblebeebat: | hahaha, I meant are their scripts to power off after a certain amount of time |
| [00:13:43] | sphery: | MythTV just waits to get a SIGKILL |
| [00:13:49] | sphery: | oh, you mean for power savings... |
| [00:13:51] | sphery: | sorry... |
| [00:13:59] | bumblebeebat: | yeah, sorry |
| [00:14:18] | sphery: | For a combined frontend/backend system, you would run mythwelcome, then exit mythfrontend (to mythwelcome) when you're not using the system |
| [00:14:40] | sphery: | a backend can shut itself down automatically when not in use, but won't when there's a frontend on the same system |
| [00:15:02] | sphery: | so mythwelcome allows you to exit mythfrontend so it can shut down, but also allows you to easily restart mythfrontend |
| [00:15:21] | sphery: | if you have multiple backends, you should use the master backend to sleep and wake remote backends |
| [00:15:53] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythwelcome + http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythshutdown |
| [00:15:56] | sphery: | have some info |
| [00:16:05] | bumblebeebat: | ok |
| [00:16:07] | bumblebeebat: | awwesome |
| [00:16:15] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/ACPI_Wakeup |
| [00:16:27] | sphery: | which can be used on the master backend to make it wake for later recordings |
| [00:17:10] | bumblebeebat: | i will definately take a look, I wanted to set up remote wake up but had dificulties, I think it had to do with some of the systems no supporting a usb wake up |
| [00:17:28] | sphery: | yeah, I've only used wake-on-lan |
| [00:17:51] | bumblebeebat: | I will have to try it. |
| [00:18:01] | sphery: | works great--except on some of my systems, if they lose power when shut down, they lose the "listen for magic packets" setting |
| [00:18:20] | bumblebeebat: | I have be on a mission to find the perfect frontend |
| [00:18:34] | sphery: | can work around that by having the BIOS set to always wake on power restore, then if it loses power, it will boot when power resumes |
| [00:18:50] | sphery: | then it will shut itself down after a while and reset the "listen for magic packets" stuff |
| [00:19:49] | bumblebeebat: | ahhh, very cool |
| [00:20:48] | bumblebeebat: | cool, the mac mini has a NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics chipset, that would support VDPAU |
| [00:21:04] | sphery: | yeah, mac mini is a great frontend |
| [00:21:09] | sphery: | only downside is the price |
| [00:21:18] | sphery: | but, you /do/ get what you pay for |
| [00:21:31] | bumblebeebat: | yes you do |
| [00:21:38] | sphery: | and http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3468 ... very nice |
| [00:22:12] | wagnerrp: | sphery: no, the Atom is basically the core solo/duo, with the instruction dispatcher, cache, and a whole slew of other stuff ripped out |
| [00:22:31] | bumblebeebat: | holy crap, that is awesome |
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| [00:22:42] | bumblebeebat: | 10w |
| [00:22:42] | wagnerrp: | all in the name of transistor count, rather than efficiency |
| [00:22:45] | sphery: | one of the devs uses a mac mini as his combined frontend/backend system... he runs it all the time, and it averages about 16W. His is a Early 2009 model with 13W idle, so in theory the Mod 2010 model at 10W or 11W would do better |
| [00:22:50] | wagnerrp: | they really didnt care about power consumption |
| [00:23:00] | kgbudz: | sup |
| [00:23:00] | wagnerrp: | they wanted transistor count down so volume would be high |
| [00:23:08] | wagnerrp: | and power consumption came as a side effect |
| [00:23:15] | sphery: | ah, I see |
| [00:23:46] | kgbudz: | i just booted up my old mythbox, its running .20, i have about 2tb of media on it |
| [00:23:56] | kgbudz: | i have ps3 and media center frontend |
| [00:23:57] | wagnerrp: | yeah, we can read the other channel |
| [00:24:01] | wagnerrp: | no need to repeat it |
| [00:24:03] | sphery: | bumblebeebat: oh, and the dev with the 13W Mac Mini that averages 16W is because it actually does recording and playback... so it does have a load on it at times |
| [00:24:26] | kgbudz: | whats the best way to serve the data |
| [00:24:51] | sphery: | IIRC, UPnP to PS3 didn't work in 0.20.x |
| [00:24:52] | wagnerrp: | upgrade to 0.24, let mythtv auto-update the database, and use the UPnP server |
| [00:25:01] | sphery: | you'd need to upgrade to get any useful UPnP |
| [00:25:08] | sphery: | (and, yeah, should go to 0.24-fixes) |
| [00:25:23] | sphery: | kgbudz: what distro were you running on 0.20? |
| [00:25:25] | wagnerrp: | kgbudz: do you intend to record tv? |
| [00:25:29] | kgbudz: | no |
| [00:25:30] | kgbudz: | fc4 |
| [00:25:40] | bumblebeebat: | wow, the mini is interesting |
| [00:25:40] | kgbudz: | which is like pretty dated today |
| [00:25:44] | sphery: | kgbudz: cool, then your database upgrade should go without a hitch |
| [00:25:55] | wagnerrp: | if you do not intend to record tv, then you should look elsewhere than mythtv |
| [00:26:00] | kgbudz: | well, i got to figure out how to get yum working again |
| [00:26:07] | sphery: | yeah, dated... you'd want to upgrade (or re-install) a newer distro |
| [00:26:12] | wagnerrp: | mediatomb is a pretty good upnp server |
| [00:26:15] | kgbudz: | ya, someone said mediatomb |
| [00:26:16] | kgbudz: | ya |
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| [00:26:41] | sphery: | MediaTomb... Where video goes to die... |
| [00:26:44] | kgbudz: | why would my yum hang |
| [00:26:50] | kgbudz: | on install actions |
| [00:26:55] | sphery: | heh, and there goes the dev with the mac mini |
| [00:27:14] | sphery: | kgbudz: I'd guess that the repo for FC4 no longer exists |
| [00:27:22] | kgbudz: | right |
| [00:27:41] | sphery: | (that being a wild guess--I know nothing about yum/Fedora/package managers in general) |
| [00:30:03] | wagnerrp: | so sphery, its been 40 minutes... got the recordedfile stuff done yet? |
| [00:30:08] | kgbudz: | is the table for tv shows recordedprogram |
| [00:30:16] | kgbudz: | in .2 |
| [00:30:55] | wagnerrp: | kgbudz: recordedprogram is used for a duplicate of the program table, additional data that doesnt fit in with the recorded table |
| [00:31:20] | sphery: | wagnerrp: ah, didn't get it finished |
| [00:31:35] | sphery: | sorry... there's more to it than one would think |
| [00:31:41] | wagnerrp: | you said 20 |
| [00:31:50] | sphery: | kgbudz: no, not recordedprogram |
| [00:31:54] | wagnerrp: | kgbudz: do you have old recordings in that database you want to archive? |
| [00:31:55] | sphery: | kgbudz: what are you trying to do |
| [00:32:12] | sphery: | kgbudz: you likely need to do: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore |
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| [00:32:15] | sphery: | get a /full/ backup |
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| [00:32:33] | sphery: | then you can use that backup to restore the /full/ database to the new system, and then let mythtv upgrade it |
| [00:32:38] | sphery: | you do /not/ want a partial restore |
| [00:32:43] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . _of_a_backup |
| [00:32:50] | sphery: | In general, do not do a partial restore--instead do a full restore. |
| [00:32:55] | wagnerrp: | if hes not intending to record anything in the future, and just wants to stream, he shouldnt even bother |
| [00:33:00] | sphery: | Therefore, a partial restore is significantly more difficult and time-consuming than a full restore, leaves significantly more opportunities for problems, and provides no benefits to the user or the system. |
| [00:33:04] | wagnerrp: | just use the existing 0.20.2 installation |
| [00:33:10] | wagnerrp: | choose a file structure hes happy with |
| [00:33:12] | kgbudz: | ya, i was going to export the metadata into another program |
| [00:33:15] | wagnerrp: | run mythrename.pl to place the recordings |
| [00:33:23] | sphery: | yeah, that would be a good idea |
| [00:33:28] | wagnerrp: | trash mythtv, and use mediatomb from there |
| [00:33:36] | sphery: | kgbudz: do that ^^^ |
| [00:33:57] | sphery: | mythrename.pl will allow you to rename the recording files to include title, subtitle, etc. information |
| [00:34:44] | sphery: | if there's additional info you want, it's primarily in recorded, but some is also in recordedprogram |
| [00:34:54] | kgbudz: | where are the thumbnails located |
| [00:35:02] | wagnerrp: | on the file system |
| [00:35:02] | sphery: | where I can't see any of recordedprogram data being useful outside of mythtv |
| [00:35:14] | wagnerrp: | right along side the recording |
| [00:35:18] | kgbudz: | oh ya |
| [00:35:20] | kgbudz: | i see it now |
| [00:35:27] | sphery: | use mythrename.pl --help to see what all you can include in the filename |
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| [00:35:53] | sphery: | and remember that you want to keep the length reasonable--so I recommend against including description |
| [00:37:15] | kgbudz: | i might go media center over UNC |
| [00:37:37] | kgbudz: | i will give this mediatomb a shot first |
| [00:38:24] | kgbudz: | if it dont compile, f it |
| [00:40:36] | kgbudz: | i have like a thousand shows and movies |
| [00:41:00] | kgbudz: | i was hoping to get some sort of structure |
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| [00:41:19] | kgbudz: | cause when i browse over UNC its not easy |
| [00:41:46] | kgbudz: | i would like to do tv showname = genre |
| [00:41:49] | kgbudz: | if thats possible |
| [00:42:05] | sphery: | kgbudz: mythrename.pl allows specifying directories in some versions |
| [00:42:28] | sphery: | or could just name it such that title is first, then use a script to sort them |
| [00:42:36] | sphery: | and move them |
| [00:42:41] | kgbudz: | ya, i think i might do something custom |
| [00:42:48] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp, http://www.fecitfacta.com/profile.png |
| [00:43:53] | kgbudz: | how much storage you got on there? |
| [00:44:19] | sphery: | think he has 22TB |
| [00:44:44] | kgbudz: | nice, do you know the disk config on that |
| [00:45:01] | wagnerrp: | pretty |
| [00:45:05] | sphery: | just a bunch of disks |
| [00:45:08] | kgbudz: | im planning on doing the same |
| [00:45:12] | sphery: | no raid or anything |
| [00:45:15] | kgbudz: | oh |
| [00:45:17] | kgbudz: | ok |
| [00:45:35] | kgbudz: | i was going to do like a 16 or 24 disk raid |
| [00:45:39] | kgbudz: | using 2.5" hds |
| [00:45:51] | wagnerrp: | why 2.5"? |
| [00:45:56] | kgbudz: | less noise |
| [00:45:58] | kgbudz: | less power |
| [00:46:02] | kgbudz: | less space |
| [00:46:06] | wagnerrp: | nope |
| [00:46:12] | kgbudz: | no? |
| [00:46:12] | wagnerrp: | same space, same power, same noise |
| [00:46:16] | sphery: | I have 8.5TB in my box and 4TB (not connected) on top of my box |
| [00:46:27] | wagnerrp: | you use a third the power, but you have to use three times the hard drives |
| [00:46:31] | wagnerrp: | so its a wash |
| [00:46:34] | wagnerrp: | you just end up paying more |
| [00:46:36] | kgbudz: | not really |
| [00:46:41] | wagnerrp: | yes really |
| [00:46:42] | kgbudz: | they got 1tb drives |
| [00:46:51] | sphery: | 2TB HDD = $70 for 3.5" |
| [00:46:51] | wagnerrp: | they got 3TB 3.5" drives |
| [00:47:01] | sphery: | how much is a 1TB 2.5"? |
| [00:47:07] | kgbudz: | under 100 |
| [00:47:13] | kgbudz: | or at 100 |
| [00:47:23] | sphery: | so 2x the cost or more |
| [00:47:48] | kgbudz: | im sticking with 2.5... |
| [00:48:06] | wagnerrp: | again, what for? |
| [00:48:11] | kgbudz: | media |
| [00:48:20] | wagnerrp: | its more expensive |
| [00:48:23] | kgbudz: | something like 10–20tb |
| [00:48:24] | wagnerrp: | considerably |
| [00:48:27] | sphery: | well, it's still cheaper than XBox 360 HDDs |
| [00:48:49] | wagnerrp: | youre talking about $3K for a machine to handle that |
| [00:49:02] | kgbudz: | ya |
| [00:49:03] | kgbudz: | at least |
| [00:49:04] | wagnerrp: | versus maybe $1K if youre doing 3.5" drives |
| [00:49:33] | kgbudz: | how so? |
| [00:49:50] | kgbudz: | i guess the drives are half the price |
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| [00:50:16] | wagnerrp: | 20TB means 10 drives, say +2 for redundancy |
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| [00:50:49] | kgbudz: | 2.5 drives are just way more effecient |
| [00:51:01] | kgbudz: | i did some research several months ago, the power savings are over 50% |
| [00:51:02] | sphery: | wow, 3TB for $149.99 – $20 (promo code EMCKFKE35 ) = $129.99 is about the same cost/GB as a 2TB |
| [00:51:10] | sphery: | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145493 |
| [00:51:15] | wagnerrp: | so $850 for the drives, $200 for hotswap caddies, $60 for PSU, $400 for a server, memory, nice processor, and one controller card |
| [00:51:19] | iamlindoro: | The drives will be dead before you realize enough savings to offset the extra cost |
| [00:51:28] | kgbudz: | why will they be dead? |
| [00:51:38] | iamlindoro: | because it will take YEARS to offset the price difference |
| [00:51:41] | kgbudz: | my concern is heat and noise |
| [00:51:45] | wagnerrp: | now youre talking under load, maybe 100W for the server, and another 100W for the drives |
| [00:51:50] | kgbudz: | i dont care about cost |
| [00:52:18] | kgbudz: | 2.5 are quieter and less heat |
| [00:52:24] | kgbudz: | less rpm |
| [00:52:26] | wagnerrp: | no, theyre not |
| [00:52:39] | kgbudz: | you sure? |
| [00:52:50] | sphery: | could do 5x 3TB HDD = 15TB for $649.95 |
| [00:52:52] | wagnerrp: | because to get that same 20TB, youre going to need 24 drives (to hit the same redundancy) |
| [00:53:03] | wagnerrp: | at which point theyre still going to idle around 80W |
| [00:53:08] | sphery: | with 5400 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" |
| [00:53:10] | wagnerrp: | compared to 100W of the 3.5" disks |
| [00:53:23] | wagnerrp: | and thats assuming you dont let them spin down when not in use |
| [00:53:34] | wagnerrp: | spun down, theyll all draw practically nothing |
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| [00:54:20] | wagnerrp: | and if you go with 3TB drives instead of 2, then you can drop the controller card and four of the drives, and consume LESS power than the 1TB 2.5" drives |
| [00:54:38] | wagnerrp: | for bulk storage, go with 3.5" drives |
| [00:54:50] | wagnerrp: | the only reason to go with more smaller drives is to increase spindle count |
| [00:55:02] | wagnerrp: | because youre looking for higher parallel performance |
| [00:55:22] | sphery: | kind of like building a 256-dual-core-CPU Atom-based server? |
| [00:55:41] | wagnerrp: | yeah... no, nothing like that |
| [00:55:52] | kgbudz: | im still leaning towards 2.5 |
| [00:55:52] | sphery: | :) |
| [00:56:01] | kgbudz: | right, 20 of them is a bit ridiculous |
| [00:56:08] | kgbudz: | realistically probably 10 |
| [00:56:23] | kgbudz: | but i will rethink about ths |
| [00:56:24] | kgbudz: | this |
| [00:56:34] | kgbudz: | i wasnt aware of a 3tb drive until now |
| [00:56:42] | wagnerrp: | if youre concerned about heat and noise, why not just get a bigger case, with more fans, and put it in a closet or basement |
| [00:56:46] | wagnerrp: | somewhere you wont hear it |
| [00:56:47] | sphery: | kgbudz: could go with 3.5" and send wagnerrp the $850 you save on the HDDs alone |
| [00:57:01] | kgbudz: | dont have a closet or basement |
| [00:57:01] | sphery: | and pocket the savings on controller card, et al |
| [00:57:24] | kgbudz: | i might as well just get a NAS |
| [00:57:43] | wagnerrp: | nearly any NAS you get will be 3.5" drives |
| [00:57:50] | kgbudz: | ya |
| [00:58:10] | kgbudz: | but then i need something to store the tv on it |
| [00:58:33] | kgbudz: | and NAS devices are usually slow... |
| [00:58:49] | kgbudz: | they are good for streaming, not copying |
| [00:58:49] | wagnerrp: | well how fast do you want? |
| [00:58:57] | kgbudz: | not sure |
| [00:59:07] | kgbudz: | at least 50megs a sec |
| [00:59:08] | wagnerrp: | copying... dont know how fast they are for that... |
| [00:59:16] | wagnerrp: | but they should be able to manage 50MB/s |
| [00:59:29] | kgbudz: | the last NAS i used maxed at around 10 |
| [00:59:33] | wagnerrp: | i mean a single drive with gigabit should manage 50MB/s |
| [00:59:35] | kgbudz: | but that was more than a year ago |
| [00:59:39] | wagnerrp: | your last NAS was probably 10/100 |
| [01:00:03] | kgbudz: | ya, i dont remember |
| [01:00:11] | kgbudz: | but it was 10tb |
| [01:00:12] | kgbudz: | and slow |
| [01:00:19] | kgbudz: | took days to fill it up |
| [01:00:44] | kgbudz: | but it was probably a pos |
| [01:00:59] | weta is now known as weta_back9EDT | |
| [01:01:21] | kgbudz: | but im really waiting for this thing to come out |
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| [01:01:59] | kgbudz: | http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/ |
| [01:02:06] | kgbudz: | whenever it gets released |
| [01:02:10] | kgbudz: | im going to build around it |
| [01:03:13] | wagnerrp: | build windows media center? |
| [01:03:28] | kgbudz: | ya, i have no problems with windows |
| [01:04:02] | kgbudz: | i like everything :) |
| [01:04:36] | wagnerrp: | i only ask because for anything other than WMC, you will only be able to access the 'copy freely' channels |
| [01:04:43] | wagnerrp: | which you can already do in mythtv over firewire |
| [01:05:09] | kgbudz: | what channels are not copy freely |
| [01:05:28] | kgbudz: | premium channels? |
| [01:05:48] | kgbudz: | hbo? |
| [01:06:00] | wagnerrp: | depends entirely on the provider |
| [01:06:20] | wagnerrp: | sometimes nothing, sometimes premium channels, sometimes all cable channels, sometimes everything |
| [01:06:36] | kgbudz: | what do you use to record tv? |
| [01:06:46] | wagnerrp: | digital tuner |
| [01:06:53] | wagnerrp: | broadcast channels only |
| [01:06:53] | kgbudz: | which |
| [01:07:06] | kgbudz: | ya, i want cable channels in hd |
| [01:08:19] | kgbudz: | cool, mediatomb installed |
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| [01:18:59] | rwlove: | hello, I have a few jamu related questions... anyone willing to listen to them? |
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| [01:20:50] | sphery: | rwlove: best bet is to ask, and if someone knows the answer(s), they'll respond |
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| [01:21:05] | sphery: | (that said, I know nothing about jamu) |
| [01:21:14] | rwlove: | heh, thx sphery |
| [01:21:35] | rwlove: | so, on one of my frontends when I scan mythvideo is kicks off some metadata search |
| [01:21:42] | rwlove: | and the system grinds to a halt |
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| [01:22:05] | rwlove: | I'm not sure where the config option is that's causing the difference in frontend behavior |
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| [01:23:32] | rwlove: | ok,well, I just did it again and it didn't happen |
| [01:24:43] | rwlove: | so forget that problem |
| [01:25:04] | rwlove: | my second problem is that my backend spews this message, and I don't think it's ever grabbing any metadata |
| [01:25:09] | rwlove: | rror: Jamu must be run on a MythTV backend. Local host (thecore) is not a MythTV backend. |
| [01:25:10] | rwlove: | With any -M option Jamu must be run on a MythTV backend |
| [01:25:10] | rwlove: | ! Warning – Failed to connect to backend at 192.168.1.210:3306 |
| [01:25:10] | rwlove: | ! Error: Jamu must be run on a MythTV backend. Local host (thecore) is not a MythTV backend. |
| [01:25:26] | rwlove: | but it is running on the backend, so I'm not sure what it's complaining about |
| [01:25:52] | rwlove: | I tried to poke into the code, but it got a bit to deep into the OOP of libmyth or something and I got lost |
| [01:26:16] | wagnerrp: | sounds like you misconfigured mythtv |
| [01:26:25] | wagnerrp: | the backend should not be listening on port 3306 |
| [01:26:30] | rwlove: | everything else works |
| [01:26:32] | wagnerrp: | it should be listening on 6543 |
| [01:26:37] | rwlove: | oh realy |
| [01:26:52] | wagnerrp: | the database should be running on 3306 |
| [01:26:56] | rwlove: | ah! |
| [01:27:18] | rwlove: | so I should re-run mythtv-setup, and then reconfigure the frontends config.xml? |
| [01:27:41] | rwlove: | or can I just hack the database directly? |
| [01:27:50] | wagnerrp: | if thats actually working, either thats a bad error message, or you did something really funky |
| [01:27:58] | wagnerrp: | what IP is your database on? |
| [01:28:09] | rwlove: | 192.168.1.210, same as the backend |
| [01:28:27] | wagnerrp: | and that is not 'thecore'? |
| [01:28:43] | rwlove: | no, that is "thecore" |
| [01:28:57] | rwlove: | rwlove@lefteye:~$ nslookup thecore |
| [01:28:58] | rwlove: | Server: 192.168.1.212 |
| [01:28:58] | rwlove: | Address: 192.168.1.212#53 |
| [01:28:58] | rwlove: | Name: thecore.thesteamedcrab.com |
| [01:28:58] | rwlove: | Address: 192.168.1.210 |
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| [01:30:38] | rwlove: | where is the backend IP set on the frontends? |
| [01:30:45] | rwlove: | I can only see data base IP |
| [01:31:05] | rwlove: | in setup->general |
| [01:31:08] | wagnerrp: | its not |
| [01:31:12] | rwlove: | oh |
| [01:31:21] | wagnerrp: | you tell the frontend where the database |
| [01:31:28] | wagnerrp: | the database tells it where the backend is |
| [01:31:30] | rwlove: | and it queries |
| [01:31:32] | rwlove: | gotcha |
| [01:32:37] | rwlove: | from the database: |
| [01:32:39] | rwlove: | BackendServerIP 192.168.1.210 NULL |
| [01:32:49] | rwlove: | BackendServerIP 192.168.1.210 thecore |
| [01:33:02] | wagnerrp: | and BackendServerPort? |
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| [01:33:51] | iamlindoro: | No BackendServerIP shoudl ever be NULL |
| [01:34:02] | rwlove: | BackendServerPort 6543 thecore |
| [01:34:02] | rwlove: | BackendServerPort 6543 lefteye |
| [01:34:02] | rwlove: | BackendServerPort 6543 righteye |
| [01:34:07] | iamlindoro: | they are by definition host only values |
| [01:34:08] | rwlove: | NULL is the hostname |
| [01:34:14] | iamlindoro: | if you ahve a NULL host then someone has been mucking with the DB |
| [01:34:18] | iamlindoro: | no, it's not |
| [01:34:42] | rwlove: | the header on the last collumn is "hostname" |
| [01:34:54] | iamlindoro: | correct, and the value for it is NULL, meaning nothing |
| [01:35:13] | iamlindoro: | there shoudl never been two identical BackendServerIP values, nor shoudl any ever be NULL |
| [01:35:15] | mycoDA: | wagnerrp / kgbudz – one point where power/noise/heat saving could be realised with 2.5" drives (or any) is if they are each their own filesystem and in the groups system in myth the system should be able to spin all but one or 2 down at any given time |
| [01:35:16] | rwlove: | ok, I thought it might be a default if there was no per-host setting |
| [01:35:25] | iamlindoro: | meaning you have compromised your DB schema |
| [01:35:33] | iamlindoro: | and that is likely the reason Jamu is failing on you |
| [01:35:34] | mycoDA: | any form of raid would obliterate that |
| [01:35:34] | rwlove: | uh oh |
| [01:35:46] | mycoDA: | not sure if LVM would do it |
| [01:35:48] | rwlove: | I guess I should remove the NULL entry |
| [01:35:58] | mycoDA: | not sure how clever LVM is with spinup |
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| [01:36:19] | rwlove: | should I have per-host entries for all systems frontend and backend |
| [01:36:36] | wagnerrp: | no, only backends, and you shouldnt be editing the database anyway |
| [01:36:59] | rwlove: | well, it's either that or reinstall |
| [01:37:14] | mycoDA: | biggest saving would be noise, and 3.5" drives are REALLY catching up there – the samsungs are amazing |
| [01:37:50] | wagnerrp: | a NULL BackendServerIP should never be used by the code one way or another |
| [01:37:56] | mycoDA: | but my WD black 2.5" are still quieter than my samsun ecogreen f2 and f4 |
| [01:37:57] | rwlove: | ah |
| [01:38:17] | rwlove: | well, I removed the NULL and restarted a frontend |
| [01:38:24] | rwlove: | and it seems fine |
| [01:38:26] | mycoDA: | that is the highest performance 2.5" round, vs the quietest 3.5" |
| [01:38:47] | rwlove: | I guess I have to wait for cron to try jamu again |
| [01:39:01] | wagnerrp: | if your hard drives are loud, then you need to shock mount them |
| [01:39:55] | mycoDA: | that will stop SOME seek noise |
| [01:40:36] | mycoDA: | no way on earth is would shut my WD caviar black up rofl |
| [01:40:56] | wagnerrp: | alternatively, if you can hear your hard drives, you simply dont have sufficient cooling... :) |
| [01:41:05] | mycoDA: | is a lot easier either way to start with quiet drives lol |
| [01:41:12] | rwlove: | search for 3306 in db didn't show anything relevant |
| [01:41:24] | mycoDA: | how do you figure wagnerrp? |
| [01:41:40] | wagnerrp: | because your fans arent loud enough to drown out the hard drives |
| [01:41:55] | mycoDA: | roflmao |
| [01:42:03] | rwlove: | grep -Hrn 3306 /usr/share/mythtv/mythvideo/scripts/jamu.py shows nothing |
| [01:42:36] | mycoDA: | i have a LOT of fans in my SLI gamer, and it doesnt cover up the caviar black |
| [01:44:13] | rwlove: | ok, I have some stupid hack in this script when I was trying to debug |
| [01:45:43] | wagnerrp: | rwlove: what specifically are you intending to do with jamu? |
| [01:46:15] | rwlove: | I think it may be working now |
| [01:46:21] | rwlove: | I need to let it run a bit more |
| [01:46:43] | rwlove: | wagnerrp, I want it to do the metadata grabbing on recordings and video |
| [01:46:47] | rwlove: | using the cron jobs |
| [01:47:02] | wagnerrp: | using 0.23? 0.24? |
| [01:47:18] | rwlove: | I just ran jamu as it would have been from cron.daily and I'm not getting those messages right now |
| [01:47:23] | rwlove: | 0.24 |
| [01:47:30] | rwlove: | problem happened after upgrade |
| [01:47:47] | wagnerrp: | for video at least, mythvideo in 0.24 already has an internal bulk metadata grabber |
| [01:48:03] | rwlove: | but does it run without user interaction? |
| [01:48:43] | wagnerrp: | when you add new dvds, or copy new home videos to your computer, you hit scan in the GUI, and it will run in the background from there pulling metadata |
| [01:49:08] | rwlove: | and I think that was my first problem |
| [01:49:24] | rwlove: | on one frontend it was grinding the box to a halt |
| [01:49:31] | rwlove: | Atom proc |
| [01:49:43] | rwlove: | but on the other (same HW) it wouldn't |
| [01:49:50] | rwlove: | anyway, I can't reproduce that anymore |
| [01:49:59] | rwlove: | so maybe it was just the first update after the upgrade |
| [01:50:01] | wagnerrp: | there is not a significant amount of processing that goes on in metadata grabbing |
| [01:50:13] | wagnerrp: | you have to hash the file, but thats more IO than CPU, and it occurs on the backend anyway |
| [01:51:59] | rwlove: | ok, well thanks for the help, jamu seems to be moving along nicely... I'll need to give it some time to make sure everything is OK |
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| [02:00:19] | wagnerrp: | hey, i might actually consider buying an ipad after all |
| [02:00:36] | wagnerrp: | apparently theyre looking into replacing their screens with eink |
| [02:01:04] | kgbudz: | apple? |
| [02:01:32] | kgbudz: | ipad with an eink screen? |
| [02:02:17] | wagnerrp: | patent from 2009 surfaced with a hybrid eink/lcd |
| [02:02:27] | mycoDA: | if i were over there i would be REALLY tempted by the nook colour |
| [02:03:02] | wagnerrp: | you mean the one that is a pain to read long duration or in sunlight, because they got rid of the eink display? |
| [02:03:11] | wagnerrp: | nice cheap proficient tablet... |
| [02:03:20] | wagnerrp: | but they got rid of one of the primary reasons for buying a tablet |
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| [02:08:15] | mycoDA: | is an IPS tho, so perfect for media playback and the like |
| [02:08:36] | mycoDA: | reputed to be the nicest screen on a TABLET |
| [02:08:44] | mycoDA: | (vs ereader) |
| [02:09:11] | wagnerrp: | would be even nicer if the IPS screen could shut down, leaving an eink screen |
| [02:09:31] | mycoDA: | indeed |
| [02:09:46] | mycoDA: | long as apple didnt make it lol |
| [02:10:05] | ** mycoDA dislikes big steve quite a lot ** | |
| [02:10:11] | mycoDA: | woz rocks tho |
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| [02:49:05] | russk: | Hi, I get user-job output in the backend log ... is there a good way to keep the user-jobs quiet? |
| [02:49:44] | [R]: | don't make the moutupt anything? |
| [02:50:05] | wagnerrp: | add '2>&1 > /dev/null' to the command |
| [02:51:02] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: after an execv, does anything of the previous program survive? |
| [02:51:42] | wagnerrp: | i.e. would i be able to maintain a resident signal handler to reopen a log file |
| [02:52:13] | russk: | wagnerrp, add '2>&1 > /dev/null' to the job command in mythtv-setup ? |
| [02:52:26] | wagnerrp: | russk: correct |
| [02:52:31] | russk: | awesome, thanks |
| [02:52:35] | wagnerrp: | that redirects all stderr and stdout to /dev/null |
| [02:53:46] | [R]: | you mean >/dev/null 2>&1 |
| [02:54:03] | wagnerrp: | both should work |
| [02:54:19] | [R]: | nope |
| [02:54:41] | [R]: | i thought so too... but aparently not |
| [03:00:40] | Wicked: | how does mythtv decide if a upcoming recording is hd? |
| [03:01:01] | Wicked: | some shows show a hd next to them...while others dont...even though they are recording from a hd station |
| [03:01:11] | wagnerrp: | the guide data tells it so |
| [03:01:26] | Wicked: | ah |
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| [03:35:38] | mycoDA: | how stable is 0.25 trunk at present? |
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| [04:41:47] | mtrax: | hi I'm getting this messages as soon as I goto MythNews pluging " /dev/sr0 No disc" |
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| [06:28:06] | Beirdo: | and home ;) |
| [06:28:14] | Beirdo: | Mariners blew it.... 12–2 |
| [06:28:24] | wagnerrp: | oh, baseball game |
| [06:28:33] | wagnerrp: | thought you were saying you were getting home from work |
| [06:28:47] | Beirdo: | Season home opener vs Cleveland |
| [06:29:10] | Beirdo: | thankfully not work :) |
| [06:32:20] | Beirdo: | the rest of my boards arrived... and the parts are in the mail room :) |
| [06:33:11] | wagnerrp: | reading through this stuff, some of the code in here is really amazing (and it makes sense why the code is 9yrs old and 2.5M lines strong) |
| [06:33:37] | wagnerrp: | for instance, the code that figures out matching filesystems across multiple hosts |
| [06:33:45] | wagnerrp: | i knew it matched total and free space |
| [06:34:30] | wagnerrp: | but it does fuzzy matching based off response time differences between different host queries, and what that would cause to the used space if actively recording |
| [06:35:52] | wagnerrp: | its the kind of thing 'why is this comparison so complex, and why is it pulling that value' |
| [06:36:01] | wagnerrp: | takes a minute or two to realize whats going on |
| [06:36:07] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [06:36:52] | Beirdo: | that's cool |
| [06:37:17] | wagnerrp: | of course now it just means one more thing to reimplement as im restructuring all this code |
| [06:38:42] | wagnerrp: | next up, file redirects in MythSystem |
| [06:40:32] | Beirdo: | still not clear on why you need it, but I trust your brain is more awake than mine :) |
| [06:41:16] | wagnerrp: | for the jobqueue |
| [06:41:33] | wagnerrp: | cleaner to have each job dump its output to its own file |
| [06:41:54] | wagnerrp: | than everything multiplexed into mythjobqueue.log |
| [06:42:08] | Beirdo: | you can do that with a command line arg to the job if you wanted though |
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| [06:42:35] | wagnerrp: | assuming the user doesnt already have those redirected |
| [06:42:45] | wagnerrp: | although i could check for those characters |
| [06:42:52] | Beirdo: | whatever works :) just be careful, you know how... touchy people are in that code lately |
| [06:43:03] | wagnerrp: | what code? |
| [06:43:09] | Beirdo: | mythsystem |
| [06:43:23] | wagnerrp: | oh, just when it causes other things to break |
| [06:43:33] | wagnerrp: | well this should be an unused feature |
| [06:43:44] | wagnerrp: | and its only going in the jobqueue branch for now |
| [06:43:50] | Beirdo: | or shows that other things have been broken but hidden :) |
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| [06:48:53] | Beirdo: | man, these accelerometer boards are insanely tiny |
| [06:49:05] | Beirdo: | I hope I'm *able* to solder them |
| [06:49:07] | wagnerrp: | well sure, its just a little MEMS sensor |
| [06:49:31] | wagnerrp: | microscale oscillator |
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| [06:50:30] | Beirdo: | yeah. The ADC chip is also tiny and I hope I did the pads right for them |
| [06:50:51] | wagnerrp: | whats the accelerometer for? |
| [06:51:09] | Beirdo: | measuring the angle of the beer taps :) |
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| [06:51:14] | Beirdo: | aka, geeking out |
| [06:51:33] | Beirdo: | the least important sensors in the batch of em |
| [06:51:34] | wagnerrp: | do you have a compressor or manual pump? |
| [06:51:46] | Beirdo: | compressed CO2 tank |
| [06:52:50] | Beirdo: | so I have several temperature sensors, and mass sensors (using strain gauges in digital scales) |
| [06:53:33] | Beirdo: | one mass sensor per keg, and one for the CO2 tank |
| [06:53:50] | wagnerrp: | so this is a 3-way accelerometer for use as a gravity reference? |
| [06:53:57] | Beirdo: | yep |
| [06:54:14] | wagnerrp: | well you would need that for those scales, if theyre just strain gages |
| [06:54:14] | Beirdo: | and when the tap is open, the vector will change |
| [06:54:50] | Beirdo: | the strain gauges are in a wheatsone bridge (as is common in digital scales) |
| [06:55:05] | wagnerrp: | but its strain, measure weight, not mass |
| [06:55:12] | wagnerrp: | you need a gravity reference to get mass |
| [06:55:27] | Beirdo: | and it's strain on a bar of aluminum internally |
| [06:55:38] | wagnerrp: | which is strained under the weight |
| [06:55:46] | Beirdo: | same thing, as far as we are concerned |
| [06:55:58] | Beirdo: | we know what gravity is on this planet |
| [06:56:00] | wagnerrp: | so if you shake the keg, it will bounce up and down, showing varying weight |
| [06:56:21] | Beirdo: | you just calibrate for a couple known weights, and it's linear |
| [06:56:34] | wagnerrp: | only when the keg is stationary |
| [06:56:37] | Beirdo: | yeah, but I won't be shaking kegs often |
| [06:56:46] | Beirdo: | it's for static measurements, not dynamic |
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| [06:56:58] | Beirdo: | i.e. how much beer is left in my keg? |
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| [06:57:26] | Beirdo: | I have (or can get) tare weight of the empty keg + gear |
| [06:57:52] | Beirdo: | and the rest... is beer and CO2, and the CO2 in the keg has negligible mass |
| [06:58:01] | Beirdo: | so... basically, it's beer. |
| [06:58:29] | Beirdo: | and for the CO2 tank, same thing... I have the tare weight. |
| [06:58:53] | Beirdo: | so I can know when the CO2 is getting low easily |
| [06:59:42] | Beirdo: | the accelerometer is being used to measure the angle of the tap valve, essentially |
| [06:59:51] | wagnerrp: | actually, a keg full of CO2 will be about half a pound |
| [07:00:41] | Beirdo: | yeah, perhaps, but out of the total 65lb or so... |
| [07:01:08] | Beirdo: | not to worry, I'll get it all calibrated to my liking |
| [07:01:09] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [07:01:36] | Beirdo: | for the accelerometer, I know that the total acceleration due to gravity is 1g |
| [07:01:58] | wagnerrp: | (if its not being shaken) |
| [07:02:01] | wagnerrp: | (or stirred) |
| [07:02:02] | Beirdo: | so the vector length should be 1g total. just need to do some trig to get the angle |
| [07:02:12] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [07:02:20] | Beirdo: | I'm not in the habit of stirring beer taps |
| [07:02:21] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [07:02:33] | Beirdo: | shaking will happen (as the door closes, etc) |
| [07:02:41] | Beirdo: | and rotation as well |
| [07:03:06] | Beirdo: | so it will be interesting, but that's mainly for geeking out |
| [07:04:25] | Beirdo: | the accelerometer (and ADC) is on a tiny board that will be around the vertical shaft coming out of the tap, with the tap handle screwed down against it |
| [07:05:07] | wagnerrp: | yeah, i misunderstood at first where it woudl be |
| [07:05:15] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [07:05:25] | Beirdo: | there are far too many uses for them |
| [07:05:52] | Beirdo: | I wish I had digital pressure gauges for the CO2 |
| [07:06:02] | Beirdo: | but those are about $200 each |
| [07:06:07] | Beirdo: | and I'd need 4 |
| [07:06:12] | Beirdo: | screw it |
| [07:06:23] | wagnerrp: | heh... yeah... pressure transducers are ex-pen-sive |
| [07:06:37] | wagnerrp: | because theyre not really designed for your application |
| [07:06:46] | wagnerrp: | theyre designed for industrial and scientific |
| [07:06:58] | Beirdo: | would want one to measure tank pressure, one at around 30psi, two at around 12psi |
| [07:07:06] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [07:07:19] | Beirdo: | industrial CAN do it |
| [07:07:28] | wagnerrp: | and need far more accuracy and better hystersis than you need |
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| [07:07:34] | Beirdo: | but not on the budget I'd want to spend |
| [07:07:42] | wagnerrp: | i think the ones we used to use were ~$450 each |
| [07:08:04] | Beirdo: | yeah, the cheapest I saw when i looked were $200ish, but most were $500ish |
| [07:08:24] | Beirdo: | it would need remote current sense |
| [07:08:34] | Beirdo: | expensive :) |
| [07:09:09] | Beirdo: | and flowmeters on the beer line would be fun |
| [07:09:18] | Beirdo: | but hardly worth the effort or cost |
| [07:09:32] | Beirdo: | and would need to be ... beer-safe |
| [07:10:01] | wagnerrp: | U meters are fun, dont know if youve ever seen those |
| [07:10:14] | Beirdo: | not that I can recall |
| [07:10:32] | Beirdo: | instrumenting my kegerator is fun though :) |
| [07:10:47] | wagnerrp: | standard flow meters are just going to have a constriction zone, with a differential pressure tap |
| [07:11:00] | wagnerrp: | pressure difference gives you the flow, but it also constricts the flow |
| [07:11:15] | Beirdo: | other ones have spinning blades, and you measure the speed of the spinning |
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| [07:11:20] | wagnerrp: | U meters just use a U bent pipe, with a forced vibration |
| [07:11:43] | wagnerrp: | flow rate through the U damps the vibration and can be measured, with no loss in head pressure |
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| [07:12:11] | Beirdo: | neat |
| [07:12:32] | Beirdo: | that would be used for like airplane fuel flow measurement? |
| [07:12:48] | wagnerrp: | yeah |
| [07:13:04] | wagnerrp: | well, you wouldnt use it ON an airplane |
| [07:13:15] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [07:13:15] | wagnerrp: | but we use them in combustion testing |
| [07:13:38] | mycoDA: | wouldnt you be able to read pressure at 2 points and imply flow rate from that via crossection ? |
| [07:13:38] | Beirdo: | I forget which type was used in the live jet engines |
| [07:13:56] | wagnerrp: | by 'we' i mean 'the guys down the street with big tanks of Jet-A and an 800kVA power distribution cabinet' |
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| [07:14:18] | Beirdo: | you wanna tell me how to safely and cheaply measure beer pressure? ;) |
| [07:14:19] | Beirdo: | hehe |
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| [07:14:36] | Beirdo: | yeah, makes sense |
| [07:14:37] | wagnerrp: | mycoDA: yes, thats the more typical constriction type of flow meter |
| [07:14:41] | mycoDA: | standard pressure sensors as used in brake lines etc |
| [07:15:04] | mycoDA: | why constrict tho – any pipe has a known crossection |
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| [07:15:34] | wagnerrp: | you have to have a change in cross section, to get a change in pressure, that can then be calculated to a flow rate |
| [07:15:40] | mycoDA: | then again – i really am not that up on hydrodynamics – only really up on hydrostatics |
| [07:15:41] | Beirdo: | anyways, not a needed thing |
| [07:15:54] | mycoDA: | makes sense actually |
| [07:16:17] | wagnerrp: | constriction like that is not a good thing when your fluids are running at several pounds and several hundred feet per second |
| [07:16:52] | mycoDA: | esp if they are prone to friction heating and combustion i imagine |
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| [07:17:13] | wagnerrp: | or, when beirdo is doing kegstands at several pounds of beer per second |
| [07:17:24] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [07:17:57] | Beirdo: | I had a beer shower when I installed the keg |
| [07:18:01] | wagnerrp: | cheapest i can find at mcmaster is $110, but those are only good up to 1PSI differential |
| [07:18:31] | Beirdo: | note to self... next time check that the washers are all in place BEFORE opening the gas valve |
| [07:18:42] | mycoDA: | heheheheheh |
| [07:19:04] | Beirdo: | easy enough to fix |
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| [07:19:34] | Beirdo: | my face was right over the keg too. |
| [07:19:35] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [07:20:00] | Beirdo: | not likely to make THAT mistake again |
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| [07:20:30] | Beirdo: | jeez, its 24C in here now |
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| [07:21:02] | Beirdo: | and I don't use the heat at all. all computer and sun heat |
| [07:21:02] | wagnerrp: | is that good? bad? |
| [07:21:16] | Beirdo: | it was 19C like 2 days ago |
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| [07:21:43] | Beirdo: | it's a touch on the warm side for me, but easily fixed by opening a window |
| [07:21:51] | wagnerrp: | if youve got the windows closed, and are old, 24C is great |
| [07:22:07] | Beirdo: | I'm not that old :) |
| [07:22:13] | Beirdo: | and this is with the heat off |
| [07:22:16] | wagnerrp: | s/are old/are use to the Rican heat/ |
| [07:22:21] | wagnerrp: | used |
| [07:22:29] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [07:22:48] | Beirdo: | I like the climate better here, to be honest |
| [07:23:16] | Beirdo: | it's easier to put on more layers than to take em off... once you run outta layers to take off, particularly |
| [07:23:19] | wagnerrp: | it was around 25C out today, bit warm for my tastes |
| [07:23:48] | Beirdo: | 20–25C is a comfortable range for me |
| [07:24:03] | wagnerrp: | lower 80s, coming out of winter, too warm |
| [07:25:44] | wagnerrp: | would an NFS mount report a different block size than the source disk? |
| [07:25:56] | Beirdo: | not sure. |
| [07:26:11] | Beirdo: | it might report the NFS read/write block size |
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| [07:29:38] | Beirdo: | well, it's just about bedtime for me |
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| [07:54:13] | MMlosh: | Hi! I have some mpeg files recoded by other mythtv server (I have more, due to technical reasons).. Is there a way how to export and import the recording, so I have them all in the same place? eg: the file format is guaranteed |
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| [13:52:24] | chasm: | Couple quick snappers: #1 opening 192.168.123.105 locally on my network show me that apache is running ->"It works! This is the default web page for this server." Opening 192.123.123.105/mythweb gives me "internal server error" This happened after I dropped mythconverg and recreated the database. Any steps I can take to get mythweb back up and running? |
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| [14:01:09] | chasm: | #2 I have 30 channels in my schedulesdirectlineup. 19 pull in 2 weeks worth of data. 11 pull in 15 hours less epg data with every data refresh . I've dropped mythconverg and reconfigured from scxratch and deleted and recreated my SD lineup amongest other things. Same issue. To eliminate SD as a possible cause, is there someplace I check to see if mythfilldatabase is actually pulling down data that leaves out 15 hours of dat |
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| [15:47:09] | jya: | quick question about find_orphans.py |
| [15:47:18] | wagnerrp: | shoot |
| [15:47:45] | jya: | when I run it, it finds an awful lot of files. |
| [15:47:54] | jya: | Like Recordings with missing files |
| [15:48:01] | jya: | and there it list plenty of file names |
| [15:48:13] | jya: | but those files are present in my recordings directory |
| [15:48:23] | jya: | and I see them in the Recordings screen in mythfrontend |
| [15:48:34] | wagnerrp: | and the frontend can play them? |
| [15:48:49] | jya: | yep |
| [15:48:55] | wagnerrp: | odd |
| [15:49:05] | jya: | hum.. I just ran it again, and it gives me another meny now |
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| [15:49:23] | wagnerrp: | it shouldnt be a file permissions issue, since it grabs the file list from the backend, over QUERT_GETFILELIST |
| [15:49:34] | wagnerrp: | if the backend can see them, it can see them |
| [15:50:08] | jya: | even more weird; after reading a 2nd times, the few files I had checked ; now do not show in the list... |
| [15:50:54] | jya: | well, it looks like it's working now.. All I did is re-run it a few times |
| [15:51:05] | jya: | the list it outputs now is rather small |
| [15:54:03] | jya: | wagnerrp: it died trying to delete the files: |
| [15:54:04] | jya: | http://pastebin.com/iPzSthSu |
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| [15:54:29] | wagnerrp: | did it die trying to run a second time? |
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| [15:54:50] | wagnerrp: | i.e. you told it to delete, got a new list, and told it to delete again? |
| [15:55:08] | jya: | it did.. |
| [15:55:13] | jya: | then I re-ran it completely |
| [15:55:18] | jya: | and it does the same again now |
| [15:55:21] | wagnerrp: | yeah, known issue, race condition |
| [15:55:34] | jya: | it seems that the list is always the same even after deleting them |
| [15:55:42] | wagnerrp: | it doesnt delete the files, it tells the backend to delete the files |
| [15:55:49] | wagnerrp: | and it pulls the list from the database directly |
| [15:56:05] | jya: | ah, so I have to wait until the files are effectively deleted? |
| [15:56:21] | wagnerrp: | yeah, i need to just put a warning in there or something |
| [15:56:26] | wagnerrp: | its annoying, but harmless |
| [15:56:48] | wagnerrp: | the metadata is there when it scans, but by the time it gets to deleting them, the backend has already done so |
| [15:56:50] | jya: | how long typically does it take to delete files? |
| [15:57:12] | wagnerrp: | depends, usually a couple seconds and everything should have flushed through the backend |
| [15:57:30] | jya: | because it supposed to have deleted 79GB of files; but there's still only 14GB left on my backend |
| [15:57:49] | wagnerrp: | do you have slow deletes on? |
| [15:58:02] | jya: | don't think so.. but I'm not sure |
| [15:58:26] | jya: | ah done... 86GB left now |
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| [15:59:53] | jya: | weird what happened at the beginning, having such a huge list being returned , even of proper and valid recordings |
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| [16:00:27] | jya: | pretty cool the python bindings... find_orphans.py is rather small for what it does |
| [16:00:28] | wagnerrp: | well as mentioned, it pulls a file list over mythproto, and compares that to the list in the database |
| [16:00:40] | wagnerrp: | perhaps it glitched pulling the file list |
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| [16:03:54] | jya: | wagnerrp: thanks for the help |
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| [16:16:51] | wagnerrp: | ok, quick fix for that race condition |
| [16:17:12] | wagnerrp: | rather than crashing, it breaks out of the loop and rescans the list |
| [16:17:49] | wagnerrp: | jya: ^^^ |
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| [16:27:18] | wagnerrp: | ... friend of mine wanted to go golfing today |
| [16:27:31] | wagnerrp: | said yesterday, its going to be a nice day tomorrow, warm and sunny |
| [16:27:40] | wagnerrp: | its dreary and raining |
| [16:29:30] | mycoDA: | was gorgeous here |
| [16:29:41] | mycoDA: | kinda dark for golf atm of course |
| [16:29:52] | mycoDA: | unless u have glow in the dark balls lol |
| [16:30:01] | chasm: | Is there a way to tell how much scheduling data comes down from schedules direct for a specific channel? |
| [16:30:57] | wagnerrp: | chasm: fourteen days |
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| [16:31:16] | wagnerrp: | maybe a day extra depending on when you pull data |
| [16:32:22] | wagnerrp: | mycoDA: you laugh, people do that for bowling |
| [16:35:17] | chasm: | wagnerrp – my problem seems to be that 40% of my channels pull 15 hours less channel data during a refresh than the other 60% – I was wondering if there was a way to look at the data that's coming down from schedule direct and say for sure that the missing data is on account of SD and not a problem with my mythbox |
| [16:35:45] | wagnerrp: | chasm: you can use the xmltv grabber for SD |
| [16:36:10] | wagnerrp: | how are you running mfd? |
| [16:36:18] | wagnerrp: | with the default options, or with --dd-grab-all? |
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| [16:37:03] | chasm: | My mythbuntu .23 box executes a mythfilldatase command with no arguements |
| [16:37:19] | wagnerrp: | 0.23... i dont know if --dd-grab-all was an option back then |
| [16:37:19] | chasm: | (afaik) |
| [16:37:48] | tgm4883: | chasm, IIRC, you can check that in the frontend setup |
| [16:38:30] | chasm: | I had a peek there this morning and mythfilldatabase was the commdn – I didn't know if there was someplace I should look in addition |
| [16:38:41] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, corrent me if I'm wrong, can't he look at his listings in zap2it.com and verify the channels have data during that time? |
| [16:39:16] | wagnerrp: | if zap2it does not have data for those channels at that time |
| [16:39:26] | wagnerrp: | then there will be no data for mfd to pull from datadirect |
| [16:39:36] | tgm4883: | yep, thats what I'd check first as it's the easiest |
| [16:39:36] | chasm: | That makes perfect sense |
| [16:39:41] | tgm4883: | verify the data exists |
| [16:39:53] | chasm: | So scheduledirect pull its listings from zap2it |
| [16:39:55] | tgm4883: | if it does, then check mfd logs I suppose |
| [16:40:01] | tgm4883: | no |
| [16:40:13] | tgm4883: | SD and zap2it pull listing data from TMS IIRC |
| [16:40:24] | chasm: | Ok |
| [16:40:32] | tgm4883: | That could be an oversimplification or completely wrong |
| [16:40:38] | wagnerrp: | zap2it is TMS |
| [16:40:43] | wagnerrp: | as is datadirect |
| [16:40:50] | chasm: | Simple works for me most of the time. |
| [16:41:17] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp, ah |
| [16:41:53] | chasm: | The funny thing is that I flattened mythcoverg and started with a new copy of the db and the problem still manifested itself, so I was thinking it should be a sd problem. But I will check zap2it and see what it says |
| [16:41:54] | wagnerrp: | zap2it is their consumer frontend for listings, news, etc... |
| [16:42:03] | wagnerrp: | datadirect is their application interface |
| [16:42:23] | tgm4883: | chasm, yea check zap2it and see if the data that you are looking for exists first |
| [16:42:28] | tgm4883: | if not, then that is the issue |
| [16:42:49] | chasm: | I'll do that now |
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| [16:49:32] | chasm: | According to zap2it there's programming data listed in the time slots where my myth listings show (unknown) |
| [16:49:52] | chasm: | So the problem is more than likely on my end |
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| [16:55:23] | chasm: | Is there anything else I should consider looking at on my mythbox before I contemplate a reinstall |
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| [17:12:26] | sphery: | chasm: Your channels are the exact reason why it makes sense to use --dd-grab-all. See http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/449426#449426 |
| [17:13:48] | sphery: | chasm: run mythfilldatabase with that argument once (after reading both the linked post and [26033] (see link next line)), and see how long it takes. If it's reasonable (not 45min or an hour), then change mythfilldatabase arguments setting to always run that way. |
| [17:13:48] | MythLogBot: | SVN 26033: (branch master) https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/d2822566 |
| [17:14:03] | sphery: | ^^^ is the link for 26033 |
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| [17:20:26] | wagnerrp: | sphery: hes on 0.23, did that get backported? |
| [17:21:41] | sphery: | wagnerrp: it's been in mythfilldatabase since 0.21 or possibly 0.20.2, IIRC |
| [17:21:48] | sphery: | just never got advertised by --help |
| [17:22:20] | sphery: | I was more conservative in my remembering on my post to the list and said, "in 0.23-fixes, and possibly even 0.22-fixes" |
| [17:22:45] | sphery: | but I know it's /definitely/ in 0.23-fixes (because I used it on my 0.23-fixes system :) |
| [17:23:22] | sphery: | once we got approval, that is... I changed my system on the day I posted that message to the list |
| [17:41:25] | chasm: | I removed all of the channel listing info from my local epg (mysql -u mythtv -pxxxxx, use mythconverg; truncate table program; I also deleted all of my channels using the channel editor. Exited mythtv-setup and declined the mythfilldatabase prompt, then ran mythfilldatabase --dd-grab-all |
| [17:41:58] | chasm: | Myth pulled in the epg data (took less than 4 minutes) |
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| [17:42:48] | kormoc_afk is now known as kormoc | |
| [17:43:51] | chasm: | reloaded the frontend and check out the epg. 19 of the 30 channels hold data until 8pm on the 24th. 1 channels (the ones I've been having trouble with) only have data until 8:30p on the 22nd |
| [17:44:10] | chasm: | 11 channels – typo |
| [17:44:29] | chasm: | It's the same set of 11 channels every time |
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| [17:50:00] | chasm: | It's obviously not a deal breaker if those 11 channels run behind in sd data, but I'm still wondering why it's happening |
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| [17:57:54] | wagnerrp: | gah... |
| [17:58:12] | wagnerrp: | i hate when the order of header files affects whether something can compile |
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| [18:03:56] | sphery: | chasm: so those 11 channels likely only report 14 days of listings, while the other 19 report 16 days... The point is that with --dd-grab-all, your system will re-pull /all/ the data every day, so those 11 channels won't be left with no data until tomorrow. Without --dd-grab-all, we do 2 runs, pulling tomorrow and +13 only. So if +13 has holes in it, those holes can stick around until the day that day is tomorrow. |
| [18:04:12] | sphery: | chasm: and with a 4-min run, you /should/ enable --dd-grab-all for every mythfilldatabase run |
| [18:04:28] | sphery: | and no need to truncate program table |
| [18:04:34] | sphery: | --dd-grab-all does that every day |
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| [19:53:03] | wagnerrp: | sphery: does the autoexpirer only run on the master backend? |
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| [20:02:02] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yep, master backend only |
| [20:02:13] | sphery: | since 0.20 |
| [20:02:27] | wagnerrp: | ok, was a bit confused by why it was pulling all filesystems from all connected backends |
| [20:03:28] | wagnerrp: | ive got the fileserver chunk all written, should be all of a couple hundred lines of glue to make it a proper executable |
| [20:03:46] | wagnerrp: | im just trying to merge it with other stuff that used the old commands in mainserver |
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| [20:31:36] | chasm: | +sphery re: --dd-grab-all -> I've added it to my mythfilldatabase command line in mythtv-setup. Thanks for your advice! |
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| [21:28:03] | Wicked: | can i edit a custom recording rule via mythweb? in mythfrontend editing a rule is near impossible due to the box that the rule is in geeks out and either shows it on two lines or one line so long you cannot read it all |
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| [22:17:04] | Gumby: | hi all. I've got a satellite channel that only transmits data some of the time. At the moment, there is nothing being transmitted and that particular channel is the one that the tuner is set to start on by default. Is there a way of manually changing it to another channel? Right now, mythtv tries to tune that channel but then falls back to the main menu because it can not |
| [22:17:17] | Gumby: | ..... when watching livetv. |
| [22:17:53] | Gumby: | Wicked: yes, you can edit custom recording rules in mythweb |
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| [22:53:40] | abarbaccia: | hi all, when trying to playback an h.264 video with vdpau (which is working on all other videos) i get an error saying that "you hardware does not support THIS h.264 video" |
| [22:53:45] | abarbaccia: | anybody see something like this before? |
| [22:54:28] | wagnerrp: | this is a mythtv error? |
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| [22:55:49] | abarbaccia: | wagnerrp: yes |
| [22:57:19] | abarbaccia: | wagnerrp: the interesting part is, higher resolution h.264 files play fine |
| [22:57:19] | wagnerrp: | there is no code anything like that which appears in our source code |
| [22:57:26] | abarbaccia: | hold on |
| [22:57:30] | wagnerrp: | can you pastebin the actually logs? |
| [22:57:31] | abarbaccia: | ill get you a line number |
| [22:57:35] | abarbaccia: | yep |
| [22:58:15] | wagnerrp: | resolution is just one factor that plays into whether a hardware decoder can handle a file |
| [22:59:58] | abarbaccia: | wagnerrp: http://pastebin.com/mCGWH89D |
| [23:01:20] | wagnerrp: | well as mentioned in the logs, its a catch-all error that could mean any number of things |
| [23:01:49] | wagnerrp: | most of which probably involve encoding options that VDPAU cannot handle |
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| [23:03:32] | wagnerrp: | so your options are to fall back to software decoding, or re-transcode from the source with better options |
| [23:03:50] | abarbaccia: | do you know of a quick way to get the encoding options |
| [23:03:57] | abarbaccia: | i want to compare this to another video that does play well |
| [23:04:04] | abarbaccia: | and determine what is causing it to fail |
| [23:04:56] | wagnerrp: | plenty of 'videoinfo' type programs |
| [23:05:12] | wagnerrp: | 'ffmpeg -i' and 'mplayer -identify' will give you some information, but probably not enough |
| [23:05:40] | MaverickTech (MaverickTech!~MaverickT@111.86.233.220.static.exetel.com.au) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:05:57] | wagnerrp: | if you encoded using the x264 encoder, the command line string will be in plain text in the first couple KB of the raw stream |
| [23:06:19] | wagnerrp: | if multiplexed in an mkv, the offsets are proper that you will be able to read this string in a text editor |
| [23:08:07] | wagnerrp: | considering the audio is DTS, the original source has to be either HDDVD or Bluray |
| [23:08:20] | wagnerrp: | any content off either of those should be usable with VDPAU directly |
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| [23:09:01] | wagnerrp: | and since theyre already compressed in VC-1 or H264, its not like youre going to do any better compressing right back into h264 |
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| [23:12:44] | abarbaccia: | wagnerrp: i found an interesting note in the VDPAU drivers stating that certain resolution widths are not supported by hardware decode |
| [23:13:09] | abarbaccia: | my video falls into one of those categories and apparently my ION chipset is affected b it |
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| [23:14:21] | wagnerrp: | both 1920x1088 and 1280x720 are supported by VDPAU |
| [23:14:41] | wagnerrp: | x264 is plenty good at ignoring the black bands, so there is no real need to crop |
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| [23:19:23] | abarbaccia: | wagnerrp: thanks for the direction. will work on it for a bit – at least now i know the cause!! |
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