Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, April 6th, 2011, 00:10 UTC

[00:10:40]

Wicked:

anyone know if it would be easier/possible to convert a hdpvr recording to something else 1st...then id be able to load that into something i use to edit?

[00:12:44]

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[00:32:36]

EvilBob:

I have older IVTV PVR-150 and PVR-500 cards, is there a way I can fine tune the frequency table used by mythtv?

[00:34:15]

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[00:34:20]

wagnerrp:

i dont know why you would need to

[00:35:00]

wagnerrp:

channel 3 should be a standard frequency, and if your cable box is not outputting that, it would be good to send it back for a replacment

[00:35:06]

EvilBob:

wagnerrp: well, poor picture and/or poor sound quality is why

[00:35:22]

EvilBob:

Analog cable

[00:35:49]

kormoc:

I'm always amazed at how little I know about mythweb. I had no idea I removed or planned to remove flash streaming for 0.25

[00:35:49]

EvilBob:

Still stuck in the stone age out here in the sticks

[00:36:31]

wagnerrp:

even analog cable should follow standard NTSC frequency tables

[00:37:06]

Wicked:

is anyone in here re encoding hdpvr recordings?

[00:37:26]

wagnerrp:

its already h264, not sure what you would re-encode to

[00:37:30]

EvilBob:

Well I have tried all the table options and well... no love

[00:37:55]

Wicked:

wagnerrp, xvid for my low power machines

[00:38:21]

Wicked:

yea i know its kinda backwards going from x264 to xvid.

[00:38:27]

Wicked:

but id like to be able to.

[00:38:29]

wagnerrp:

just tell your cable box to output 480p

[00:38:37]

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[00:39:23]

EvilBob:

kormoc: does the "finetune" of the mythweb settings->TV interface work as one would expect?

[00:39:41]

Wicked:

well i personally watch tv on a capable system....so i want to keep the 1080/720 for that...

[00:39:43]

wagnerrp:

i could be wrong, but i thought that was only for digital tuners

[00:39:52]

Wicked:

no way am i gonna record nothing but 480 lol

[00:40:04]

wagnerrp:

Wicked: but mythtv at current only supports a single video for a recording

[00:40:04]

kormoc:

EvilBob, depends on what you expect

[00:40:17]

wagnerrp:

if you transcode to a lesser format, you replace the high quality original

[00:40:41]

wagnerrp:

unless you were planning on transcoding into mythvideo or something

[00:40:49]

Wicked:

i want to record in highest quality possible then re encode it in xvid and stick xvid in my "archive" for lower powered systems.

[00:41:10]

EvilBob:

kormoc: My picture is is poor but I can fine tune the channels manually using ivtv-tune

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[00:41:24]

Wicked:

i watch the majority on a capable system....but i do also watch stuff on low power systems...such as an old laptop that wont do x264

[00:41:41]

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[00:42:10]

EvilBob:

kormoc: Still on Analog Cable here using IVTV PVR-150 and PVR-500 cards

[00:42:12]

kormoc:

EvilBob, before you finetune, are you sure you're on the right freq table?

[00:42:27]

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[00:42:41]

EvilBob:

kormoc: I have tested the "default" and all "us*" tables

[00:42:50]

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[00:43:06]

EvilBob:

kormoc: some are better, some worse depending on the table used

[00:43:36]

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[00:43:37]

kormoc:

the finetune value is (myth_freq_htz – target_freq_htz) * 16 / 1000

[00:43:57]

kormoc:

whatever number that pumps out is the value to use in that field

[00:44:17]

EvilBob:

kormoc: Thank you very much

[00:44:32]

EvilBob:

I will give that a shot

[00:44:36]

kormoc:

g'luck

[00:45:12]

EvilBob:

kormoc: I'll probably need it, 100 channels to go through and tweak as needed...

[00:45:14]

EvilBob:

;)

[00:45:55]

EvilBob:

I can't wait for 2013/2014 when we get Digital

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[01:24:17]

HRearden:

I've got a problem downloading themes on the frontend. It just keeps saying downloading but never completes. I understand that the FE is supposed to trigger the MBE to execute the download, but that doesn't seem to happen.

[01:24:46]

HRearden:

I've put logging on the MBE and I don't even see any thing there at all when the FE tries to download a theme.

[01:25:30]

HRearden:

Searched the lists, but only saw something around creating a "Temp" storage group, but that then was deemed not necessary.

[01:26:00]

wagnerrp:

the Temp storage group is automatically defined to ~/.mythtv/temp

[01:26:27]

HRearden:

right – don't see anything ever getting downloaded to there on the MBE.

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[01:27:09]

wagnerrp:

perhaps your init script is sending home to somewhere else

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[01:28:51]

HRearden:

Hmm. Not using an init-script per-se – using "pacemaker" to start /usr/local/bin/mythfrontend using one of their resource types.

[01:29:28]

wagnerrp:

perhaps pacemaker is setting a different home than you expect

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[01:37:00]

HRearden:

Hmm. I tried to download several themes earlier. Now 2 of them are in both the FE and MBE ~/.mythtv/tmp directories as zip files, but when I try to install on the FE it still just spins and spins...

[01:37:53]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i have to download twice and then restart the frontend to get a newly downloaded theme to take effect

[01:38:04]

wagnerrp:

i always just assumed it was a screwy misconfiguration on my end

[01:38:38]

wagnerrp:

its not something i do often, so it wasnt something high on my list of stuff to figure out

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[01:40:49]

HRearden:

Still not working. Can I download/extract or move this manually – do I just unzip the theme and put it somewhere (~/.mythtv/themes ?)

[01:41:45]

wagnerrp:

never looked into how it all works

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[01:47:25]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, nah, it's a problem with the code, but no one has been bugged to figure it out

[01:47:42]

Captain_Murdoch:

no one that can replicate it that is. :)

[01:48:16]

wagnerrp:

i guess that falls to me then

[01:48:20]

Captain_Murdoch:

It may be an issue with remote FE's, I need to setup my dev standalone FE to test that theory though.

[01:48:31]

wagnerrp:

yeah, this is all remote FEs

[01:48:34]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, negative. it does it on my combined MBE/FE

[01:48:38]

wagnerrp:

i dont have a local FE on my MBE

[01:49:00]

Captain_Murdoch:

kormoc, unfortunately I haven't been able to reproduce it here on my combined MBE/FE box.

[01:49:09]

kormoc:

hrm

[01:49:10]

wagnerrp:

sounds like the REDS just won

[01:49:20]

kormoc:

I wonder if it's cause I'm using mythconfdir then

[01:49:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

HRearden, just unzip that file into ~/.mythtv/themes and go back into the chooser and it will detect the theme as installed.

[01:49:49]

Captain_Murdoch:

then you can select it.

[01:50:04]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: im not using mythconfdir for my frontends

[01:50:33]

Captain_Murdoch:

kormoc, I think I honor that everywhere because I wanted it to work for windows users as well. that's one reason I used zip, since I could easily get Qt unzip code.

[01:50:50]

wagnerrp:

so a user creates a wiki account two months ago, and just now creates a user page and user talk page with the single word 'Hello'

[01:50:52]

wagnerrp:

spam?

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HRearden:

Well, that worked... putting the theme .zip file in ~/.mythtv/themes and unzipping.

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[01:54:18]

Captain_Murdoch:

HRearden, so the .zip file did make it to the FE's tmp dir? did the FE hang while trying to download and if so, what was the last busy dialogmessage displayed?

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[01:55:03]

HRearden:

yes, zip file made it to FE tmp dir this time (although other times today, it didn't). It just showed "downloading".

[01:55:13]

Captain_Murdoch:

kormoc, just doublechecked, and I use GetConfDir() which is checking that env var.

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[01:55:31]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, kk, thanks

[01:56:19]

Captain_Murdoch:

HRearden, ok, so it may haveonly made itthere this time because itmade it to the MBE's tmp dir previously which coincides with other reports I've heard.

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[02:01:06]

HRearden:

And I'm not sure why some times it made it to MBE tmp dir and other times not. Also, it never appeared to install, regardless. FEs that had themes prior to this new "strategy" all are working fine.

[02:02:33]

kormoc:

for me I just have to hit the install button like 6 times in a row and then restart the frontend and it works

[02:03:44]

wagnerrp:

yeah, you have to install multiple times and restart

[02:03:51]

wagnerrp:

its the restart that is bothering me

[02:04:04]

wagnerrp:

like some trigger never happens, but it thinks it is actually running the new theme

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[02:12:00]

Captain_Murdoch:

it's calling the same code to 'start' using the new theme, none of that changed. it uses the "reload theme" jump point.

[02:12:26]

wagnerrp:

right, and it reloads, but it reloads using the old theme, not the new one

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[02:17:26]

Captain_Murdoch:

ah, settings cache issue maybe.

[02:17:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

considering the line to save the setting is right before the line to call the jump point.

[02:18:55]

wagnerrp:

woo! jobqueue stuff has successfully compiled

[02:19:12]

** wagnerrp makes no mention of it actually working **

[02:19:29]

Captain_Murdoch:

we do clear the cached item in MythDB::SaveSettingOnHost() though, so I don't see why we'd notgetthe new value when we reload the theme.

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[02:22:48]

Captain_Murdoch:

if you can replicate the restart issue, can you run with "-v database,extra and see if it hits the DB looking for the theme value when it does the theme reload. if not, then it's in cache still for some reason.

[02:27:39]

wagnerrp:

what does this mythtv/html/html binary do?

[02:28:54]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, certainly, will do in a few

[02:30:14]

Captain_Murdoch:

wagnerrp, nothing, but it's needed for qmake. same as mythtv/themes/themes

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[02:32:30]

Captain_Murdoch:

wagnerrp, html/html doesn't get installed

[02:37:04]

** Captain_Murdoch is afk sleeping, overnight SAN maintenance in ~3–4 hours **

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[05:53:19]

justinh:

hmm do I mention my OSS contribution hobby on my CV...

[05:54:16]

[R]:

just say what you do and what project(s) you do it for

[05:54:48]

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[05:57:14]

wagnerrp:

CV?

[05:57:16]

justinh:

might as well. googling my name comes up with the connection anyway

[05:57:20]

justinh:

wagnerrp: resume

[05:59:07]

wagnerrp:

i figured that from the connotation, but what does CV stand for?

[05:59:15]

[R]:

curivulaem vitalie

[05:59:20]

[R]:

or some stupid latin words

[05:59:44]

justinh:

curriculum vitae

[05:59:53]

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[05:59:55]

[R]:

i was close

[06:00:27]

justinh:

means "courses of life"

[06:00:49]

justinh:

which strictly speaking is a misnomer. Courses of *work*, maybe

[06:00:54]

justinh:

work != life

[06:01:08]

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[06:01:10]

justinh:

oh wait, but then this is a potential *employer* we're talking to.. ;)

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[06:27:05]

kleinlappies:

hey guys hi wat to know would it be possible to install dvblogic software onto win pc then be able to use a virtual capture card on the myth backend, would this work? need to get dreambox stream into/onto mythtv

[06:27:49]

wagnerrp:

mythtv supports capture cards that expose themselves over the linux DVB API

[06:28:07]

wagnerrp:

if you can somehow set up the necessary device nodes and ioctls to behave according to the DVB API, have at it

[06:29:05]

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[06:30:01]

** justinh chuckles. Good luck with that.. heheheh **

[06:33:04]

wagnerrp:

kleinlappies: mythtv is not some software you just throw on a system

[06:33:10]

wagnerrp:

you design he system around the software

[06:33:23]

wagnerrp:

buying hardware specifically because its known to be compatible with linux and mythtv

[06:33:38]

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[06:33:59]

wagnerrp:

for your purposes, you would want to buy a DVB-S/C card with built in CI slot

[06:34:17]

wagnerrp:

mythtv can use DVB cards with integrated hardware CAMs for pay tv

[06:34:43]

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[06:36:28]

justinh:

what is wrong with people who want to use other DB engines?

[06:37:36]

justinh:

always assume it's cos they want to run mythbackend on a plugtop with 2k of RAM

[06:38:13]

wagnerrp:

theres good reason to want to use an embedded database with mythtv

[06:38:34]

justinh:

oh yeah – pretty sure of that myself – if only to make setup much easier

[06:38:39]

wagnerrp:

but anyone who knows anything about databases should know that sqlite simply isnt capable enough for anything of any significant size

[06:39:01]

wagnerrp:

and the postgresql vs. mysql quickly devolves to a religious debate

[06:39:54]

justinh:

is people's concern mostly about resources? My 1st backend was perfectly adequate with 512MB RAM & it only had an 800Mhz CPU

[06:41:02]

wagnerrp:

i dont know what people's complaint over mysql is

[06:42:00]

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[06:42:48]

justinh:

be glad to see the back of *buntu "cannot connect to database" users here though :)

[06:48:01]

justinh:

hahaha I just read a blog post of a certain Canonical bloke & thought "aha! He's finally seen the light". April fool

[06:52:09]

wagnerrp:

got a link?

[06:52:18]

justinh:

http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/01/i-am-jef-spaleta/

[06:52:38]

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[06:53:37]

wagnerrp:

thats not a sailboat, its a galleon

[06:54:17]

wagnerrp:

also, that first image looks straight out of something you would see on one the Better Off Ted ads

[06:55:23]

justinh:

I was reading the text & *almost* fell for it

[06:55:46]

justinh:

the descriptions of the meetings are exactly how I imagine them to be

[06:57:20]

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[07:08:56]

kleinlappies:

hey guys thx, will look into it a bit more. wagnerrp thx wil try what you mentioned

[07:10:09]

kleinlappies:

i was thinking of getting the dvb card with ci slot.

[07:10:59]

kleinlappies:

before i give out ant money i was trying to use old capture cards to just "forward the signal from my dreambox to the mythtv pc. still trying this out, thou.

[07:11:51]

wagnerrp:

analog capture off your dbox is another option

[07:12:16]

wagnerrp:

but i wouldnt bother trying to do so with framegrabbers

[07:12:33]

wagnerrp:

you can use framegrabbers in mythtv, but theyre a PITA. mpeg encoder cards are preferred

[07:12:42]

kleinlappies:

oh ok that is basicaaly what i wanted to hear.

[07:13:07]

kleinlappies:

ok thx wagnerrp was thinking the same but was not sure.

[07:13:39]

kleinlappies:

ok will look around for something with mpeg support.

[07:13:46]

wagnerrp:

since with framegrabbers, you have to manually configure audio and video capture independently, and depending on the card you have to capture audio through a separate sound card

[07:14:16]

wagnerrp:

while mpeg encoders like the IVTV cards, you get a nice, encoded mpeg stream straight out of the card

[07:14:22]

wagnerrp:

very little possibility for user error

[07:14:33]

kleinlappies:

yes exactily like you said. so i suppose the juice aint worth the squeeze.

[07:15:07]

kleinlappies:

will look at encoder card just now, eager to get this working 100%

[07:15:09]

justinh:

plus with cards that do the encoding onboard, they remove the complexity of capturing audio at the same time

[07:15:28]

wagnerrp:

complexity, i.e. possibility for user error

[07:15:33]

justinh:

with a lot of framegrabbers, you need a soundcard per tuner to grab the audio as well

[07:15:40]

justinh:

icky

[07:15:53]

** wagnerrp wonders if justinh even read his last few lines **

[07:15:55]

wagnerrp:

:P

[07:16:26]

justinh:

hahah no. just went on a rant. as per :-)

[07:16:53]

kleinlappies:

thx guys going to have to follow this route and dit it once and do it right.

[07:32:12]

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[07:47:39]

Gumby:

hi all. Im trying to find where the option is to allow channel jumping in the OSD Guide. Is this still a feature?

[07:48:16]

justinh:

you mean 'select changes channel' ?

[07:48:18]

Gumby:

I see the option in the DB but the hostname is NULL so I'm unsure whether it is even an option still or not

[07:48:48]

Gumby:

justinh: no, I mean when you are viewing the guide you can punch in a number and it takes you to that channel in the guide. Doesnt necessarily change to that channel

[07:49:13]

Gumby:

so one does not have to (for example) page down 100 times

[07:49:53]

justinh:

ah. I don't know this stuff. don't use livetv

[07:50:07]

Gumby:

hrm. actually..... mine does seem to do this.. but only allows the input of up to 3 digits

[07:50:39]

Gumby:

ah... I see the issue now

[07:50:56]

justinh:

4 digit channels? OMG

[07:51:00]

Gumby:

the number "1" is doing a "day forward" command in the guide

[07:51:13]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is not currently designed to handle 4-digit channels

[07:51:15]

Gumby:

so entering "1400" does not work

[07:53:28]

Gumby:

hehe, 1 does day up and 7 does day down

[07:55:08]

Gumby:

wagnerrp: what functions dont work with 4 digits? (or are you just joking around?)

[07:55:24]

wagnerrp:

no, theres a lot of stuff that doesnt work

[07:55:28]

wagnerrp:

apparently that is one of them

[07:55:35]

wagnerrp:

external channel changers are another

[07:55:45]

wagnerrp:

its our 'y2k' issue

[07:55:51]

Gumby:

I dont think this is the actual issue.... the issue is that 1 = end and 2 = home in the guide for me

[07:55:55]

wagnerrp:

no one will ever need more than three digits to define a channel

[07:55:59]

Gumby:

lol

[07:56:31]

justinh:

Gumby: number pad keys VS number keys :)

[07:57:04]

Gumby:

justinh: indeed. I'm using a remote control though

[07:57:29]

Gumby:

and the numbers 1 and 7 work everywhere else

[07:57:30]

justinh:

yeah so mythfrontend must be regarding numbers as numpad keypresses

[07:57:46]

justinh:

or lirc...

[07:58:02]

justinh:

wonder how they're differentiated

[07:59:05]

Gumby:

Ive never come across this before. Perhaps a new feature in 0.24 ;)

[07:59:21]

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[07:59:21]

justinh:

nah I'm on 0.23 here

[07:59:37]

justinh:

numpad 7 moves one day back & numpad 1 moves one day fwd

[08:00:10]

justinh:

take numlock off & numbers work as with the ordinary number keys

[08:00:20]

Gumby:

I can see that as being useful, but somewhat less useful than having a functional 1 and 7 for me

[08:00:52]

Gumby:

hrm, how do I take numlock off of a remote?

[08:01:45]

Gumby:

and why does 1 work when changing channels in livetv (or anywhere else I have tried) but not in the guide.

[08:02:08]

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[08:02:10]

justinh:

why do people still insist on using livetv? :-O

[08:02:59]

Gumby:

lol

[08:04:52]

Gumby:

aha, found it.

[08:05:16]

Gumby:

I was looking at keybindings for the wrong machine :(

[08:05:31]

justinh:

hmm.. can't see how Qt differentiates between numpad keys & ordinary

[08:06:13]

justinh:

AFAIK they're all supposed to generate different codes

[08:06:30]

Gumby:

I had changed the keybindings on one machine via mythweb, did not realize it was set to the wrong machine

[08:07:19]

justinh:

'1' on the main keyboard is '10' '1' on the numpad is '87' apparently

[08:07:42]

justinh:

and still '87' whether numlock is on or off

[08:07:53]

justinh:

maybe qt is doing the translation internally

[08:08:28]

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[08:22:39]

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[08:23:20]

mzb:

is Radeon HD 6310 ok/good/bad with 1080p using mythtv?

[08:23:42]

wagnerrp:

is Radeon <insert any model> good with linux?

[08:23:45]

justinh:

ultimately depends on the state of the driver

[08:23:49]

mzb:

or is it still the case that I have to go DOWN to an ION solution?

[08:24:04]

wagnerrp:

erm... no

[08:24:10]

justinh:

bad driver, and you won't even be able to play SDTV

[08:24:14]

wagnerrp:

i know what youre thinking, and dont

[08:24:15]

mzb:

I'm talking about CURRENT solutions, not historical ones

[08:24:24]

mzb:

yeah ... fair enough

[08:24:26]

mzb:

shame

[08:24:32]

justinh:

FWIW I wouldn't even entertain ATI stuff

[08:24:33]

wagnerrp:

there is no mythtv support for VAAPI

[08:24:34]

mzb:

technically better platform

[08:24:45]

wagnerrp:

and even if there were, the AMD video drivers are not sufficiently reliable

[08:24:49]

mzb:

right, answers the question ... thanks

[08:25:04]

wagnerrp:

and that 1.2GHz AMD processor is not otherwise capable of handling much of anything HD

[08:25:21]

mzb:

so now it's a choice between mobo, barebones or complete system

[08:25:47]

mzb:

Giada n20 looks nice ... but I don't want the hdd

[08:25:52]

justinh:

there is still no substitute for CPU horsepower if you need to be absolutely certain of handling any media currently available

[08:25:54]

wagnerrp:

honestly, i'd pick up an i3 system, and use opengl on the intel graphics

[08:26:05]

mzb:

don't want i3

[08:26:16]

wagnerrp:

what do you want?

[08:26:32]

justinh:

no, folks want 0.5 watts from the mains, and to be able to handle anything they throw at it, for $50

[08:27:10]

wagnerrp:

well a diskless i3 system will idle around 25W off the PSU, which is not much worse than an ION system

[08:27:17]

mzb:

pref. miniITX mobo ... but in lieu of that I'd take a small barebones ... that being said, the mini-ITX doesn't fit to well on the shelf

[08:27:28]

mzb:

(already have mini-ITX cases/etc)

[08:27:29]

justinh:

oh, they also want it to occupy the footprint of a matchbox :P

[08:27:29]

wagnerrp:

you can get a mini-itx H55 board

[08:27:42]

mzb:

cost?

[08:28:01]

mzb:

I'm looking at < $400

[08:28:10]

mzb:

$250 would be better ;)

[08:28:12]

wagnerrp:

over here? easy

[08:28:17]

mzb:

like?

[08:28:24]

wagnerrp:

from austrailan retailers... i dont know what your prices are like

[08:28:27]

mzb:

I'm buying at wholesale

[08:28:52]

mzb:

and (in theory) I can get *anything*

[08:29:05]

Gumby:

mini-box cases are relatively simply and not terribly expensive

[08:29:14]

Gumby:

oh, you already have a case

[08:29:15]

Gumby:

nm

[08:29:21]

mzb:

already got several mini-.... yep

[08:29:42]

mzb:

but as I say, they don't fit on $HER shelf well

[08:29:47]

Gumby:

they come in silver now

[08:29:47]

Gumby:

hehe

[08:29:52]

Beirdo:

OK, I now have working I2C bus too :)

[08:30:27]

Beirdo:

I think I need extra code in there to do a receive timeout on the UART, but I'm so happy

[08:30:30]

Beirdo:

hehe

[08:30:34]

mzb:

the Giada n20 and the Asus S1-AT5NM10E both look pretty good

[08:30:51]

Beirdo:

on top of my devel box... is 19.5–20C

[08:30:57]

wagnerrp:

gigabyte MiniITX H55 board, $105.... i3 540 (3.06GHz), $120... 2x1GB Kingston Value DDR3, $26

[08:31:10]

mzb:

hmm

[08:31:11]

wagnerrp:

so $251, almost made it under the wire

[08:31:21]

mzb:

yeah ... nice one

[08:31:51]

mzb:

thanks wagnerrp ... I'll take a look at the specs+combo

[08:31:55]

wagnerrp:

plus looks like another $10 for shipping

[08:32:17]

mzb:

would you buy that for your $WIFE, or would you go for better/faster?

[08:32:37]

mzb:

(personally I prefer Asus, for eg;))

[08:32:38]

wagnerrp:

thats plenty CPU for any of mythtv's needs, up to and including bluray playback

[08:32:58]

mzb:

kk

[08:33:01]

wagnerrp:

no asus 1156 miniitx board on newegg

[08:33:15]

mzb:

might be one, hang on

[08:34:35]

wagnerrp:

plus should someone take another swing at mark k's VAAPI stuff, the chip would support it

[08:34:52]

wagnerrp:

last year when writing up the patchset, the intel drivers were halfway reliable

[08:36:00]

mzb:

meh

[08:36:45]

justinh:

be great to see even laughable intel gl performance let alone video acceleration

[08:36:46]

mzb:

the other thing about the giada and s1-at5nm10e is they include things like bluetooth and wifi

[08:36:56]

mzb:

not SO important ... but nice

[08:37:28]

wagnerrp:

justinh: apparently the integrated graphics on the i3/5s is halfway decent

[08:37:48]

wagnerrp:

still not all that powerful, but the proximity to the CPU and memory controller makes up for a lot

[08:37:50]

justinh:

compared to nvidia? that'll be the day

[08:38:12]

wagnerrp:

roughly equivalent to the 9400M in the ION systems in benchmarks

[08:38:13]

mzb:

wagnerrp, which model# for the h55 gb mobo?

[08:38:29]

wagnerrp:

dpmt know, page is closed

[08:39:07]

wagnerrp:

justinh: either way, it should be plenty to run the opengl video renderer at 1920x1080

[08:39:08]

mzb:

so your recommendation uses intel graphics?

[08:39:18]

justinh:

could be cool :)

[08:39:30]

justinh:

thermally cool too :)

[08:39:30]

wagnerrp:

yes, although note the 'should' up there

[08:39:36]

mzb:

right

[08:39:40]

wagnerrp:

it 'should be plenty'

[08:39:47]

mzb:

got an 'nv' solution in the same price range?

[08:39:49]

wagnerrp:

but ive yet to hear someone actually use one with mythtv

[08:40:02]

justinh:

heh. I wasn't exactly surprised to find how bad gl video rendering is on my current frontend

[08:40:02]

wagnerrp:

nv solutions are a bit more difficult

[08:40:18]

mzb:

let me add then, that I don't intend to be the beta tester for 'intel graphics' ;)

[08:40:19]

wagnerrp:

the 8xxx/9xxx boards are drying up and getting expensive

[08:40:24]

justinh:

I know glxgears is no real indicator but come on.. 150fps.. LOL

[08:40:29]

mzb:

please reconsider your advice ;)

[08:40:45]

mzb:

(or justify it)

[08:41:05]

justinh:

with anything but nvidia, YMMV :)

[08:41:12]

justinh:

hell, even with nvidia, YMMV

[08:41:13]

wagnerrp:

an AMD processor is going to be a lot cheaper, but youre probably looking at >>$100 to find a mini-itx 8200 board

[08:41:33]

wagnerrp:

and then youre stuck with DDR2 for about twice the price of DDR3

[08:41:39]

mzb:

I only have experience with nv ... so I hav no knowledge out of that sphere ;)

[08:41:45]

mzb:

don't care

[08:41:56]

mzb:

1–2GB will be fine

[08:42:25]

mzb:

I care more about size than memory

[08:42:53]

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[08:43:04]

mzb:

ie: mini-ITX is bordering on too big ;) (... or at least my mini-ITX cases are)

[08:43:08]

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[08:43:49]

wagnerrp:

why? mini-itx is plenty small to strap to the back of your tv

[08:43:56]

wagnerrp:

why would you care for it to be any smaller than that?

[08:44:13]

mzb:

ok, I'll explain

[08:44:51]

wagnerrp:

every board and mailing list post i can find about users with ix processors says theyre using nvidia video

[08:45:02]

wagnerrp:

people dont seem to understand if you have enough power, you dont need VDPAU

[08:45:04]

mzb:

primary target is for $HER upgrade ... the shelf where her computer lives is a bit narrow/shallow for the ITX cases I've got, but WILL fit

[08:45:51]

mzb:

secondary target is for boss' mythtv-frontends ... not sure if size is important ... but his wife might disagree ;)

[08:46:00]

mzb:

need to be the same machine

[08:46:13]

mzb:

(model/make/etc)

[08:46:48]

justinh:

oof. You still can't buy a ready-made box as cheap as you can make one. thought I'd try the usual suspects like Dell. Whoops

[08:46:51]

mzb:

$HER main need at this point is Facebook games (*sigh*) ... so I'd prefer low-power dual-core

[08:47:14]

justinh:

low power.. for flash stuff? LOL

[08:47:29]

mzb:

compared to an AMD X2 3800+ ;)

[08:47:43]

wagnerrp:

yeah... if youre doing flash anything, steer clear of Atom processors

[08:47:55]

mzb:

kk

[08:47:58]

wagnerrp:

that 2GHz AMD processor is easily twice as fast as any Atom you can buy

[08:48:09]

justinh:

I ran my current backend – cheapest intel cpu I could find, etc – as a desktop machine running linux for a while.. it SUCKED at flash

[08:48:09]

mzb:

hmm

[08:48:11]

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[08:48:17]

wagnerrp:

that FIVE YEAR OLD 2GHz AMD processor is easily twice as fast as any Atom you can buy

[08:48:23]

justinh:

I mean it frickin lagged when playing bejewelled FGS

[08:48:52]

justinh:

model name : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU E1500 @ 2.20GHz

[08:49:14]

justinh:

and that was with nvidia binary drivers for the 8400 GPU

[08:49:23]

mzb:

BUT it's BIG case, it has to go on the floor instead of the shelf, the 18mo keeps turning it off, it makes a racket on a hot day .... etc

[08:49:33]

justinh:

which just happened to be the cheapest PCI-E card I could lay my hands on

[08:49:49]

justinh:

mzb: just pointing out that flash needs horseys

[08:49:54]

mzb:

kk

[08:50:04]

mzb:

i3 minitITX would be cool if it had onboard nv

[08:50:05]

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[08:50:16]

justinh:

it was noticably sucky on a CPU of that speed on linux

[08:50:27]

wagnerrp:

mzb: would be great, but not going to happen

[08:50:38]

justinh:

my laptop, running XP.. with a core duo 1.6Ghz CPU.. lovely by comparison

[08:50:39]

wagnerrp:

nvidia is getting out of the embedded graphics market

[08:51:07]

mzb:

there must be some sort of small solution

[08:51:23]

wagnerrp:

theyre migrating to mid-high end discrete graphics for desktops and laptops

[08:51:31]

wagnerrp:

their low power stuff is all going into tegra/arm

[08:51:40]

justinh:

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_VICPro.aspx

[08:51:46]

mzb:

hehe

[08:51:50]

mzb:

no thanks justdave

[08:51:53]

mzb:

meh

[08:51:57]

mzb:

no thanks justinh

[08:52:03]

justinh:

or http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_VicSlim.aspx

[08:52:20]

justinh:

oh wait, you might want actual products, not vaporware

[08:52:21]

justdave:

happens all the time, no worries ;)

[08:52:46]

wagnerrp:

wow... thats like the first time ive EVER seen you talk

[08:52:46]

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[08:53:00]

wagnerrp:

this is a monumentous occasion

[08:53:05]

wagnerrp:

i think ill go to bed

[08:53:08]

justinh:

heh

[08:53:32]

justinh:

I've only ever seen justdave speak in here to mention the nick autocomplete confusion

[08:53:45]

mzb:

sorry to wake you justdave ... out of practice ;)

[08:54:04]

justinh:

maybe I should consider putting a special character at the start of my nick

[08:54:10]

justdave:

Eh, every so often something breaks on my system and I ask in here how to fix it :)

[08:54:10]

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[08:54:20]

justinh:

actually, if that annoys other people as much as me.. maybe I shoukd :D

[08:54:41]

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[08:54:53]

mzb:

yeah ... it's one of those features that should *just work* ;)

[08:55:07]

justdave:

I get that on IRC at work, too. my boss's boss uses 'justin' for his nick.

[08:55:36]

mzb:

not necessarily your fault justinh, but a nick-change would be an easy workaround

[08:56:00]

justdave is now known as _justdave

[08:56:14]

justinh:

think I feel the same about that as I do when folks suggest changing #mythtv to #mythtv-dev :P

[08:56:37]

_justdave:

could try that... people aren't actually looking for me on freenode that often

[08:56:58]

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[08:58:05]

mzb:

hehe

[08:58:41]

_justdave:

hmm, not sure if that'll actually help. irssi seems to ignore leading non-letter characters when choosing which nick to autocomplete

[08:58:53]

mzb:

ok, I've been summoned for food. Thanks for your suggestions, guys ... I'll do some more research.

[08:59:26]

justinh:

heheh so it does, _justdave

[08:59:43]

justinh:

pretty sure it didn't used to, though

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[10:09:26]

steve___1 is now known as spirit3

[10:09:49]

spirit3:

Hi all – do we have any working DVB-T2 drivers now?

[10:10:03]

justinh:

nope

[10:10:16]

spirit3:

:(

[10:11:00]

spirit3:

I've seen talk of developers working on various T2 cards but ... I guess progress is slow :(

[10:11:14]

justinh:

some guy out there is trying to make something work & he blogs about it

[10:11:17]

hashbang:

spirit3: fancy seeing you here. :-)

[10:11:31]

justinh:

progress is slow whenever there are no datasheets made available...

[10:11:33]

justinh:

same old same old

[10:12:04]

spirit3:

Hey hashbang – yup, just upgraded my myth box, theoretically it can handle HD now

[10:12:20]

spirit3:

hence me trying to catch up with the state of T2 support

[10:12:25]

justinh:

http://stevekerrison.com/290e/index.html

[10:12:56]

hashbang:

spirit3: yup, same here, when I put the GT240 back in and start using HDMI instead of VGA->RGB SCART

[10:13:24]

justinh:

the fools, thinking that freeview HD will be worth having.. muhahahahaha

[10:13:58]

hashbang:

justinh: well, maybe not Freeview HD, but streaming HD, maybe...

[10:14:10]

spirit3:

With the low bitrates we have in the UK I'm not sure anything digital is really worth having...

[10:14:34]

hashbang:

spirit3: OTOH, it saves having to do A2D and CPU encoding.

[10:14:49]

justinh:

digital saves that

[10:14:52]

justinh:

not low bitrates

[10:15:13]

hashbang:

spirit3: I'd like to see my Myth box deal with recording upto 12 analogue channels simultaneously.

[10:16:30]

justinh:

hashbang: with hardware encoders.. easy peasy

[10:16:33]

spirit3:

Ah yes – I wasn't suggesting going back to analogue. Just, in terms of picture quality I prefer a few sparklies when it rains compared to the constant low-bitrate blocking og freeview (and to a lesser extend sky)

[10:16:44]

hashbang:

justinh: spendy, though.

[10:16:57]

justinh:

freeview needn't suck

[10:17:08]

justinh:

if they slopped less channels out, it'd be better

[10:17:16]

hashbang:

spirit3: to be fair, I usually find that the BBC channels are fairly free of blockiness

[10:17:19]

justinh:

heck even one tv channel less per mux would be a great start

[10:17:24]

hashbang:

spirit3: and that's most of what I watch.

[10:17:32]

justinh:

better encoders on the BBC

[10:17:37]

justinh:

*way* better

[10:18:08]

hashbang:

My mum gripes, but she watches lots of FIVE and ITV, so...

[10:18:15]

justinh:

heh

[10:18:21]

justinh:

five's encoding is awful

[10:18:25]

hashbang:

for me, the content of those channels is more offensively poor than the PQ

[10:18:43]

justinh:

you don't watch the iFanboy show then?

[10:18:53]

hashbang:

Gadget Show?

[10:19:01]

justinh:

yup

[10:19:03]

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[10:19:07]

hashbang:

good guess, eh?

[10:19:11]

hashbang:

only once or twice

[10:19:15]

hashbang:

Click is more interesting.

[10:19:21]

justinh:

if you can catch it

[10:19:22]

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[10:19:44]

hashbang:

justinh: with breaking news making it late/canceled, you mean?

[10:19:51]

justinh:

yes

[10:20:04]

justinh:

and UKRT showing it as starting at 0530AM

[10:20:17]

hashbang:

it's only one of my 'filler' programmes

[10:20:26]

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[10:20:37]

hashbang:

if I cared, I'd probably watch it in MythBrowser via iPlayer

[10:20:50]

justinh:

FFS, ukrt is still listing it as 0530am on sunday

[10:20:55]

justinh:

it's 0430

[10:21:10]

justinh:

hashbang: can't do iplayer here. stupid frickin awful intel crap

[10:21:36]

justinh:

or rather I could, if I enjoy watching tearing video :-\

[10:21:55]

hashbang:

it looks like I go for the Thu 0330/BBC2 showing

[10:22:03]

justinh:

honestly now, WTH is up with radiotimes & bbc news since the time change?

[10:22:59]

hashbang:

Sun 17 is 0430 here

[10:23:13]

hashbang:

Sun 10 is 0530

[10:24:15]

hashbang:

I wish MythTV had a fuzzy match; "record once in *about* this timeslot"

[10:24:41]

justinh:

it's supposed to be quite fuzzy

[10:24:59]

hashbang:

oh, OK

[10:25:08]

hashbang:

I assumed it was precise, which is not so useful

[10:25:10]

justinh:

doesn't help if the listing data is wrong though

[10:25:13]

hashbang:

heh

[10:25:21]

hashbang:

handy for Dr Who, too

[10:25:34]

justinh:

no, I find a NEVER RECORD handy for that show

[10:25:38]

hashbang:

ouch.

[10:25:56]

hashbang:

I think RTD felt that.

[10:26:07]

justinh:

it was intended for the new bloke

[10:26:18]

justinh:

the last 'special' made me pine for RTD

[10:26:56]

justinh:

not that I ever had a soft spot for the warty-faced fat one's sentimental drivel

[10:27:55]

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[10:29:39]

spirit3:

hashbang: after several years of trouble with my dual tuner Nova-TD 500 I seem to have found some stability ...

[10:30:12]

spirit3:

Despite trying all the tricks – a fresh install of mythbuntu 10.10 seems to have at least temporarily solved the problems ...

[10:30:26]

justinh:

ahh registry bloat

[10:31:17]

justinh:

honestly though, why would a fresh install of anything solve problems?

[10:31:48]

spirit3:

really, I have no idea. I assume driver fixes would have been backported anyway?

[10:31:49]

justinh:

newer kernel, changed modules.. updated er.. stuff.. maybe – but installing the same thing over again? Doubtful

[10:31:53]

spirit3:

firmware level is the same 1.20

[10:32:00]

justinh:

never assume driver fixes are backported

[10:32:23]

spirit3:

ah sorry – my previous install was an old 8.04 (?) box which had been upgraded release after release

[10:32:31]

spirit3:

rather than upgrade to 10.10 I decided on a fresh install though

[10:32:43]

spirit3:

so it was a fresh install of a newer distro

[10:33:18]

justinh:

so maybe you got yourself what using dvb drivers from linuxdvb's Hg repo would get you ;-)

[10:33:24]

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[10:34:17]

spirit3:

I'm very impressed with mythbuntu now though – it all just works. Magic.

[10:34:32]

justinh:

**only if you read the setup information though

[10:34:41]

spirit3:

Even my LCD display on the media centre case took just seconds to configure.

[10:34:44]

justinh:

like, you still can't just blunder in & it'll work

[10:35:20]

spirit3:

I remember in the old days spending hours building different modules to get this working

[10:35:32]

spirit3:

LCDproc or whatever it's called just recognises this stuff now

[10:35:39]

justinh:

well yeah

[10:35:46]

justinh:

that's what happens when software progresses :)

[10:36:33]

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[10:36:45]

justinh:

but we still get people in here using mythbuntu who somehow have managed to cock everything up despite the best efforts of the mythbuntu guys to make it all as easy as pie

[10:37:15]

justinh:

if I see another 'cannot connect to database' issue again it'll be too soon :D

[10:37:59]

spirit3:

yeah – I've not needed to do this for years. Probably a testament to how reliable the upgrade process in Ubuntu is – from 8.04 initial install to 9.10, to 10.04 with nothing breaking

[10:38:23]

justinh:

I did it on a test system once – it broke so badly it needed wiping

[10:38:43]

justinh:

since then, I've never even attempted a dist-upgrade

[10:38:45]

spirit3:

I clearly have the penguins watching over my shoulder then :)

[10:39:15]

justinh:

it's no big deal to back up yer database, make sure your media is safe.. then update

[10:39:23]

spirit3:

and yes – I'm sure with a bit of effort the install process could be screwed up

[10:39:54]

spirit3:

Ah – I had started getting some DB issues recently – hence another reason for a fresh install

[10:40:22]

justinh:

last time I idiot tested a mythbuntu install you really had to work hard to mess it up- but mostly by not reading – and just blindly hitting return

[10:40:31]

spirit3:

I think maybe updating the schema through multiple versions had left a few inconsistencies

[10:42:37]

hashbang:

spirit3: did you find my posts on the mythtv-users and linuxtv lists

[10:43:51]

spirit3:

hashbang: which posts? I'm on mythtv-users, not linuxtv ...

[10:44:04]

hashbang:

spirit3: //www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@vger.kernel.org/msg27399.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@vger. . . . sg27399.html

[10:44:33]

hashbang:

spirit3: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/469334#469334

[10:45:03]

spirit3:

I had some mysql queries that were failing, occasional connection failures to mysql, tuners failing to get locks, etc

[10:45:18]

spirit3:

The mysql issues didn't seem to cause problems

[10:45:34]

hashbang:

spirit3: the Nova-T-500 has some known HW bugs

[10:45:41]

spirit3:

but I had to keep cold-booting the box to get the tuners back :(

[10:45:44]

hashbang:

spirit3: worst is that it doesn't work properly on a warm boot.

[10:45:58]

spirit3:

yes, recently I was cold-booting daily to restore them

[10:46:28]

spirit3:

I disabled USB sleep (or similar?) and disabled remote polling

[10:46:29]

hashbang:

spirit3: if you work through my list, and getting rid of 'auto' settings in dtv_multiplex, you shouldn't lose them at all.

[10:46:39]

spirit3:

I'll take a look

[10:46:55]

hashbang:

USB autosuspend is another biggie

[10:47:36]

hashbang:

I think remote polling is safe again now, but I have a single-tuner Nova-T in my box too, and I use its remote, so no need for the Nova-T-500's to be configured

[10:47:54]

spirit3:

yes, USB autosuspend and RC polling both disabled

[10:48:02]

spirit3:

and lna forced to on

[10:48:28]

spirit3:

what is dvb_powerdown_on_sleep ? My box never suspends ... or is this something different?

[10:48:59]

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[10:49:01]

spirit3:

I've also disabled EIT scanning on second card

[10:49:05]

spirit3:

sorry, second tuner

[10:49:59]

hashbang:

spirit3: MODULE_PARM_DESC(dvb_powerdown_on_sleep, "0: do not power down, 1: turn LNB voltage off on sleep (default)");

[10:50:37]

hashbang:

spirit3: I guess it might only apply to DVB-S

[10:50:53]

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[10:56:33]

spirit3:

hashbang: is your nova-t-500 reliable now?

[10:56:39]

hashbang:

spirit3: touch wood

[10:56:39]

spirit3:

Or do I have more issues to look forward to?

[10:56:58]

hashbang:

spirit3: getting the 'auto' fields out of the dtv_multiplex table were key.

[10:57:18]

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[10:57:41]

justinh:

yeah some drivers don't like auto

[10:57:49]

justinh:

they just default to a setting which happens to work

[10:57:58]

spirit3:

ahhhh ok ... I'll see how I get on and maybe fix the 'auto' values if I see more issues

[10:58:16]

justinh:

it's not as if nobody can find out what the parameters are ;)

[10:58:37]

spirit3:

true :)

[10:58:58]

hashbang:

justinh: someone on the linuxtv list suggested that there's also an issue with mixed 8k and 2k mplexes, prevalent in the transitional UK DTV setup.

[10:59:13]

hashbang:

justinh: //www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@vger.kernel.org/msg27406.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@vger. . . . sg27406.html

[10:59:15]

justinh:

yeah I just read that

[10:59:26]

justinh:

vger? srsly? GROAN

[10:59:33]

spirit3:

hashbang: I guess we're both pointing at the mendip transmitter so I can just steal your values :)

[10:59:54]

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[11:00:22]

hashbang:

justinh: touch wood, that doesn't seem to be affecting me

[11:01:03]

justinh:

had a big argument with my dad at the weekend about the switchover

[11:01:37]

justinh:

he reckoned that he'll still be able to tune analogue channels when it's done. hmmm

[11:01:48]

hashbang:

justinh: uh-huh.

[11:02:16]

hashbang:

justinh: to be fair, he can /tune/ them all he likes. Receiving any signal, however...

[11:02:22]

justinh:

I said yeah, maybe.. like RF modulators & stuff.. not actual telly channels pickedup from the aerial

[11:02:56]

hashbang:

justinh: there's a lot of confusion in the general public, still, about how stuff actually works

[11:03:06]

hashbang:

e.g. people thinking a VCR records "from" the TV

[11:03:39]

spirit3:

hashbang: So they leave the TV switched on in order to record when out? lulz

[11:04:02]

hashbang:

(and, of course, just as people get their heads round that, you get TVs that can record onto USB sticks and forward the tuned DTV channel to SCART, which confuses them all again)

[11:04:49]

hashbang:

I can see I'm going to have fun when my parents eventually switch from a STB+VHS VCR to something new-fangled.

[11:05:13]

hashbang:

I'd love to give 'em a Myth box, but, um...

[11:06:13]

spirit3:

Do all plasma displays now have tuners built in? I need to replace my aging panasonic and built-in tuners/card-readers/USB all seems a bit pointless

[11:06:17]

hashbang:

spirit3: more things like "if I disconnect the fly lead from the VCR to the TV, it won't be able to record"

[11:06:46]

hashbang:

spirit3: you could buy a computer monitor. :-)

[11:07:12]

hashbang:

spirit3: will probably get more for your money as they have lower import tariffs than TVs.

[11:07:28]

hashbang:

spirit3: of course, you'll find it hard to find a 50" monitor

[11:08:04]

spirit3:

Yeah, 42" will be difficult too I guess.

[11:08:08]

hashbang:

http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=monplas&xf=33_40%2F102#xf_top

[11:08:16]

spirit3:

Oooh .. panasonic still make some dedicated displays without tuners etc

[11:08:20]

hashbang:

maybe not, actually...

[11:10:39]

hashbang:

dunno what the PQ is like, and you probably won't be able to see/compare any before you buy

[11:11:00]

spirit3:

yay – panasonic make decent displays with optional component video and DVI input boards

[11:11:01]

hashbang:

so you'll have to buy blind based on specs, I imagine

[11:11:10]

spirit3:

wonder how the image quality compares to their consumer TV's

[11:11:40]

hashbang:

I'd also worry that you might pay over the odds for being part of a small market without economies of scale

[11:11:57]

hashbang:

aka "the £10K MoD toilet seat"

[11:13:08]

hashbang:

spirit3: probably no speakers either, so you'll probably have to use your AV receiver+speakers 100% of the time

[11:13:27]

hashbang:

spirit3: which might be a pain if you want to watch late-night TV, and have neighbours

[11:13:37]

spirit3:

hashbang: I do that anyway – the current SD panel has no speakers either

[11:13:41]

hashbang:

aha

[11:13:43]

spirit3:

plus I'm a bit of an audiosnob

[11:14:05]

hashbang:

spirit3: I CBA for documentaries, sitcoms and standup

[11:14:14]

hashbang:

spirit3: for action films, sure... :-)

[11:16:06]

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[11:17:31]

spirit3:

1200 ukp for 42" professional plasma display

[11:17:47]

spirit3:

I guess a consumer model would be little over half that

[11:19:07]

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[11:21:19]

justinh:

buy a broadcast monitor, then :D

[11:26:59]

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[11:28:20]

spirit3:

hmmm some of the consumer models get better reviews *boggle*

[11:29:33]

justinh:

ideally I'd like to be able to dispense with all the stupid image processing junk & leave that to the frontend – so does that rule out cheaper models which might use the same panel as a more expensive model with fancy processing?

[11:30:47]

justinh:

all that '600Hz' stuff just makes me MEH

[11:31:10]

mycoDA:

broadcast monitors are all about standardised gamut

[11:31:28]

mycoDA:

not what 'looks' best

[11:32:53]

spirit3:

justinh: This is why I was looking at a professional monitor – figured it would be designed to do just that, without all the consumer processing nonsense and wasted money on stuff I won't use

[11:32:58]

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[11:33:10]

justinh:

and weird – House of Fraser now saying '5 year warranty included' on *most* things not all like they used to

[11:33:42]

spirit3:

apparently the pro models are *very* good in terms of colour accuracy and image sharpness – but they have poor black levels. They're also a few hundred UKP more expensive.

[11:33:56]

justinh:

spirit3: other thing about 'pro' stuff is they seem to lack inputs compared to consumer versions

[11:34:14]

justinh:

like, you might get a lot of different inputs, but only 1 HDMI

[11:34:19]

spirit3:

Yeah – one HDMI port compared to 4 DVI's on the consumer

[11:34:58]

spirit3:

My current panel has component (connected to Xbox) and SVGA (MythTV)

[11:35:21]

justinh:

plasma is out for me, just for power consumption alone

[11:35:45]

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[11:35:51]

justinh:

might not even go beyond 32" screen size anyway since SDTV looks like arse on any flat panel

[11:36:09]

spirit3:

I love LCD's for gaming but I think plasmas still have the edge for TV viewing (which I do most of)

[11:36:09]

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[11:36:12]

spirit3:

personal preference though :)

[11:36:21]

justinh:

never know – my 32" CRT might hold out til most programmes are HD

[11:38:32]

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[11:39:00]

justinh:

be nice if there was a list somewhere giving you TV models telling you which let you do pixel mapping & able to turn off all the image processing junk

[11:39:55]

justinh:

"This picture processing system reduces motion blur".. yuh, but some things are *supposed* to blue

[11:39:58]

justinh:

*blur

[11:40:35]

justinh:

also, being available in colours other than ugly gloss black would be nice too

[11:40:55]

hashbang:

justinh: JL still do 5 year warranties on TVs

[11:41:12]

justinh:

hashbang: just been on their website – they're saying 'included' on most but not all

[11:41:54]

justinh:

hang on.. 135W for a 50" plasma? REALLY?

[11:41:57]

hashbang:

I sit corrected

[11:42:26]

hashbang:

justinh: and LCD often isn't as power-efficient as one might expect, either

[11:42:33]

justinh:

the JL warranty is worth having too. collect, leave loan unit.. and return

[11:42:55]

hashbang:

justinh: my 22" Lenovo LCD is nearly the same as my infamously-hungry 21" Sun 'Hurricane' CRT

[11:43:01]

justinh:

heh

[11:43:30]

justinh:

guy who used to work here had a 42" plasma & he said it was drawing nearly 400W

[11:43:59]

hashbang:

I know plasmas used to be particularly bad

[11:44:04]

justinh:

pfft.. 'HD ready' 42" set... 1024 x 768

[11:44:08]

hashbang:

but I expect they've gotten better

[11:44:11]

justinh:

wah wah wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[11:44:29]

justinh:

is that even a 16:9 pixel aspect?

[11:44:33]

hashbang:

LCD with LED backlighting would be most efficient

[11:44:41]

hashbang:

justinh: 4:3

[11:44:48]

justinh:

ouch

[11:45:02]

hashbang:

stretchy

[11:47:24]

justinh:

mind, if I do go flat, pixel perfect & all that.. I'll have to play SD zoomed in

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[12:54:20]

** CyberKnet will never go back to Plasma **

[12:55:15]

CyberKnet:

Love the LCD in comparison.

[12:55:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

justinh, my 4–5 year old plasma is a 42 and draws around 250–300 I think and it's 1024x768, although when I tried to count pixels a few months back, I think that it may not even be that.

[12:55:33]

CyberKnet:

I know bad experience with one set does not a bad category make, but still...

[12:56:21]

Captain_Murdoch:

not worth replacing just for electrical usage, but when it dies, I won't get another plasma. this was a black friday special years ago.

[12:57:17]

CyberKnet:

Captain_Murdoch: Luckily my plasma died within the extended warranty period I purchased

[12:57:49]

CyberKnet:

Captain_Murdoch: I wouldn't roll those dice again, but it was lucky for me... I was able to ditch the plasma after 2.5 years and get a nice new LCD that was 5" bigger.

[12:58:25]

** CyberKnet doesn't ordinarily buy extended warranties **

[12:59:27]

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[12:59:43]

mycoDA:

crappy OLD technology

[13:00:15]

Captain_Murdoch:

mine appears to have an issue that is un-plasma related. the buttons and remote seem to lock up if I leave it on the ATSC input for very long. the main reason I bought it was price and VGA input though, so I still can't justify replacing it. only reason it has an antenna connected is for testing reception to know what I can get on my air2pc cards.

[13:01:38]

mycoDA:

totally understand – i have a crt rearpro lol

[13:02:17]

CyberKnet:

$50 gift card for $25 at Shuler Shoes – http://www.schulershoes.com/Gift-Card---Sole-Project-P6459.aspx

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[13:07:25]

CyberKnet:

sold out

[13:07:45]

CyberKnet:

they sold 200 cards in 7 minutes... good to know for next time.

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hashbang:

cheerio, chaps!

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wagnerrp:

Captain_Murdoch: the system event interface is only intended to be used to run external commands, and is only sent once per host

[18:10:56]

wagnerrp:

but it is guaranteed to be sent to the master backend, where the job scheduler lives

[18:12:00]

wagnerrp:

since all jobqueue database access is done through the master backend, i dont want to have to set up separate interfaces for dealing with local and remote recordings

[18:12:25]

wagnerrp:

so i was intending to trigger automatic jobs off a broadcast event, rather than a direct protocol command

[18:12:52]

wagnerrp:

the only general events i can see are for indicating when a card is active or not

[18:13:22]

wagnerrp:

would it be kosher to trigger off a system event? or should i just write up a new recording event with the recording information

[18:13:31]

wagnerrp:

to be sent on recording start and completion

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[18:53:21]

Captain_Murdoch:

wagnerrp, I don't see any reason not to trigger off the recording start/stop system events if they fire at the times you need them.

[18:54:13]

Captain_Murdoch:

if the start one fires too early, you could even add a 'failed' event inside scheduler.cpp where we check status == rsFailed and then you could cancel any jobs scheduled for that recording.

[18:54:43]

wagnerrp:

well more likely i would just tune the 'schedruntime'

[18:55:16]

wagnerrp:

or you mean it triggers before it knows if the recording successfully happened

[18:57:07]

wagnerrp:

the alternative would be to just add a command into the JobInfo class to command the scheduler to add the necessary jobs, as is the existing method

[18:57:34]

wagnerrp:

but i dont want to deal with all the 'ismaster' stuff, for local recordings

[18:57:58]

wagnerrp:

unless would breaking the recorder capability out of the master backend be fairly simple?

[18:58:29]

wagnerrp:

i know sphery has it on his todo, as part of the mythtvd stuff

[18:59:05]

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[19:01:54]

Captain_Murdoch:

REC_STARTED fires inside TVRec::StartedRecording(), so I think we fire it off before we might return a rsFailed back if tuning fails.

[19:03:28]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, I want to get rid of the 'recorder' part of the master. treat all tuners as slaves to get rid of the ismaster type stuff. If you use RemoteSendMessage, you don't have to deal with that, RemoteSendMessage knows whether it is master or not and if it is, it just broadcasts, if it is not master then it sends over the MBE connection.

[19:04:06]

wagnerrp:

well i would prefer not to use BACKEND_MESSAGE at all

[19:04:37]

wagnerrp:

just use standard commands pumped over the upstream socket

[19:04:54]

wagnerrp:

QUERY_JOBQUEUE QUEUE[]:[]<jobinfo>

[19:05:37]

wagnerrp:

QUEUE_JOB rather

[19:06:10]

wagnerrp:

i would like to just have a 'static' call that would generate the necessary jobs, and then send them back to the scheduler

[19:07:07]

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[19:09:09]

Captain_Murdoch:

you need to either use BACKEND_MESSAGE to send a message to the backend or create your own new protocol message and handle it in mainserver.cpp. from there you have to get it to your job scheduler somehow. I'd think it would be easier to just have the scheduler listen for recording started/stopped events and then do the figuring out on it's own rather than complicating the protocol to send data over it that the MBE job s

[19:09:09]

Captain_Murdoch:

cheduler could generate itself. that makes even more sense if the SBE doesn't have access to the DB in the future and would have to ask the MBE what jobs to schedule just to send that info right back to the MBE.

[19:09:13]

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[19:09:59]

wagnerrp:

Captain_Murdoch: right, ive got parts of the modular_protocol branch merged in

[19:10:12]

Captain_Murdoch:

ah, ok.

[19:10:22]

wagnerrp:

ive got 'handler' classes that are registered to the main server, and define a HandleAnnounce and HandleQuery

[19:10:35]

wagnerrp:

and there is a jobscheduler handler that deals with all the new jobqueue calls

[19:11:00]

Captain_Murdoch:

didn't know that. ok, makse more sense if you can do that. but still that doesn't change the comment about the DB being embedded in the master and hte SBE having to ask the master for info just to send it back to the MBE.

[19:11:01]

wagnerrp:

i could have the scheduler on the MBE trigger the events, hadnt thought of that

[19:11:17]

wagnerrp:

s/events/jobs/

[19:11:36]

wagnerrp:

i had just been planning on using the tvrec code itself, since thats where the existing calls were

[19:11:44]

wagnerrp:

didnt think of simply moving it elsewhere

[19:11:48]

Captain_Murdoch:

easier to debug that way I think. and easier for jobs to be triggered by something like the python bindings, mythweb, etc..

[19:12:55]

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[19:13:31]

wagnerrp:

well if theyre not pulling the information from the backend over mythproto, theyre going to pull it from the database and send it back over mythproto

[19:13:40]

wagnerrp:

i dont really see the difference there

[19:13:40]

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[19:13:41]

sphery:

+1 for moving job creation out of tvrec

[19:13:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

I'd picture something like "JOBQUEUE_REC_STARTED chanid starttime" "JOBQUEUE_REC_ENDED chanid starttime" "JOBQUEUE_QUEUE_JOB chanid starttime jobtype"

[19:13:53]

sphery:

tvrec is way too big and needs some stuff moved out :)

[19:14:26]

Captain_Murdoch:

let the scheduler in the MBE handle the guts of processing those commands/events.

[19:14:29]

wagnerrp:

oh, i see what youre saying

[19:14:42]

Captain_Murdoch:

makes bindings and other queuing apps much simpler.

[19:14:55]

wagnerrp:

instead of tvrec sending a new command for each job, you just tell it to start all defined for that recording

[19:15:01]

Captain_Murdoch:

yep

[19:15:20]

Captain_Murdoch:

well, 'start' jobs, the 'end' jobs, or a specific job.

[19:15:31]

wagnerrp:

i thought of that, but the autorun jobs are mapped to the recording rule, rather than the program

[19:15:45]

wagnerrp:

but i guess i could backtrack from the program into the recording rule to get those definitions

[19:15:47]

Captain_Murdoch:

so send back recordid as well.

[19:16:04]

wagnerrp:

right, one way or another, shouldnt be a problem

[19:16:11]

Captain_Murdoch:

or have the scheduler get it from the DB since it is stored in the recorded table.

[19:16:33]

wagnerrp:

i do like the idea of just moving all that code to the recording scheduler though

[19:16:46]

wagnerrp:

that way its all contained on the MBE, and i dont have to worry about any of this

[19:17:24]

Captain_Murdoch:

in fact, that could be part of the query. select all_my_job_info from recorded r, jobs j, record_jobs rj

[19:17:55]

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[19:17:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

record_jobs being a table containing jobs to run for a recordid.

[19:18:06]

Captain_Murdoch:

jobs being the jobs themselves

[19:18:36]

wagnerrp:

right, i was going to work that into the JobInfo class once i started reworking the database tables

[19:18:43]

wagnerrp:

right now, the database is as it is in trunk

[19:18:52]

wagnerrp:

with the autorun stuff defined in `record`

[19:18:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

I agree, get the logic in the backend, so remote queue manipulation is easy.

[19:19:44]

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[19:20:05]

wagnerrp:

also, i was intending of limiting a lot of jobqueue control to the jobscheduler only, limiting access through the web setup

[19:20:08]

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[19:20:30]

wagnerrp:

rather than adding protocol commands to allow the frontends to manage it, or otherwise letting them access the database directly

[19:21:39]

wagnerrp:

the protocol commands would let you pull all the information you want, but would only allow you to push new jobs or pause/resume/stop existing ones

[19:21:49]

wagnerrp:

anything more complex would be limited to the backend

[19:22:19]

Captain_Murdoch:

sounds ok to me. FE doesn't need a lot of complexity.

[19:22:20]

wagnerrp:

such as reordering, command creation, autorun setup, etc...

[19:22:37]

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[19:22:40]

Captain_Murdoch:

well, autorun setup needs to be in the sheduled recording editor.

[19:22:51]

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[19:24:23]

Captain_Murdoch:

reordering and command editting/creation belongs in web setup, I agree. I'm going to remove system event setup from the FE as well, only allowing it via web setup. that way I can remove a bunch of code once the editor is in the web setup. right now the editor for that is in a lib so it can be used by both mythtv-setup and mythfrontend.

[19:26:41]

wagnerrp:

would waking up jobqueues for the purpose of running jobs be of worth?

[19:26:48]

wagnerrp:

such as is done for slave backends

[19:27:25]

wagnerrp:

certainly if its working on a recording on a slave backend that needs to be woken

[19:29:08]

wagnerrp:

i suppose i would put the autoqueue stuff into Scheduler::UpdateRecStatus?

[19:29:51]

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[19:30:35]

Wicked:

can i manually edit out commercials in mythtv then lossless transcode them out?

[19:30:57]

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[19:31:13]

wagnerrp:

while playing a recording, hit 'e'

[19:31:40]

wagnerrp:

mark your cut regions, hit 'm' and Job Options, and select a profile which you have marked 'lossless'

[19:31:53]

wagnerrp:

most people use the Autodetect MPEG2 profile as their lossless

[19:31:54]

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[19:32:08]

wagnerrp:

note that you will have to go into the transcoding profiles and mark it as lossless, it is not the default

[19:32:12]

Wicked:

ah. ok. i was not sure if mythtv would use the manual cut points.

[19:32:21]

Wicked:

ok. so ill go make sure of that now.

[19:32:51]

wagnerrp:

Captain_Murdoch: in Scheduler::UpdateRecStatus, trigger on rsRecording (-2) and rsRecorded (-3)?

[19:33:12]

wagnerrp:

cancel any existing jobs on rsFailed (-9)

[19:34:38]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, one of the things I considered was waking up of jobqueue servers. I could see some people using that.

[19:34:51]

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[19:36:28]

Captain_Murdoch:

we don't call updaterecstatus from within scheduler.cpp, it might be triggered by a SBE reporting a failure, I'm not sure. I don't know if it is called when a recording starts because we set the status ourselves in Scheduler::RunScheduler() around line 2130 when we start the recording and get a response back from tv_rec.cpp

[19:38:26]

wagnerrp:

yeah, only references to it are in mainserver.cpp

[19:38:28]

Captain_Murdoch:

around line 2175 at the bottom of the for loop might be the place to schedule start jobs if is_rec is true.

[19:39:23]

Captain_Murdoch:

line 2166, we call UpdateNextRecord() if is_rec is true. could turn that into a block, call UpdateNextRecord(), then call something to schedule the start jobs.

[19:39:34]

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[19:46:19]

Wicked:

wagnerrp, ive made the cutpoints...but when i hit m...i dont see any job options.

[19:46:47]

wagnerrp:

you can access them both during playback, and in Watch Recordings

[19:46:50]

Wicked:

i see transcode which has like auto detect and a few others..but i dont see any mpeg2 named job

[19:47:19]

wagnerrp:

autodetect will automatically chose between MPEG2 and RTJPEG/MPEG4, depending on how the show was recorded

[19:47:25]

Wicked:

oh.

[19:47:37]

Wicked:

i cannot specify to use mpeg2 even if its not?

[19:47:56]

wagnerrp:

you can only do lossless transcoding on mpeg2 content

[19:48:00]

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[19:48:09]

Wicked:

you cannot do it on hdpvr recordings?

[19:48:14]

wagnerrp:

no

[19:48:20]

Wicked:

BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[19:48:25]

Wicked:

:(

[19:48:58]

Wicked:

i just cannot win with trying to edit these hdpvr recordings

[19:49:55]

Wicked:

handbrake is capable of importing them and re encoding...but it cannot edit. Avidemux can import them...but encodings get way out of sync..or it completely segfaults

[19:50:17]

iamlindoro:

nuvexport

[19:50:46]

Wicked:

i tried nuvexport a while back to re encode recordings and never had much luck with it.

[19:50:55]

iamlindoro:

User error ;)

[19:50:56]

Wicked:

has it improved at all

[19:51:18]

iamlindoro:

nuvexport works just fine to respect the myth cutlist and re-encode to H.264 in MP$, retaining full resolution-- sure it's lossy, but the result is just fine

[19:51:26]

iamlindoro:

It doesn't need to improve, you do ;)

[19:51:34]

iamlindoro:

s/MP$/MP4/

[19:51:49]

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[19:52:02]

Wicked:

heh. i just know it constantely failed when i last tried it.

[19:52:07]

Wicked:

iirc it was a known issue.

[19:52:21]

Wicked:

cannot recall the exact error as its been a while.

[19:52:27]

iamlindoro:

only "known" in that you mismatched it with ffmpeg

[19:52:46]

iamlindoro:

nuvexport works perfectly as long as you match it against the version of ffmpeg it is targeted at

[19:52:53]

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[19:53:06]

iamlindoro:

and now it's not even possible to mess that up, since it uses our internal copy of ffmpeg rather than relying on the user to get that right

[19:53:50]

Wicked:

ah. that could have been it. iirc it was somewhere along of the lines of it failing and quitting..or thinking it failed and stopping.

[19:54:06]

iamlindoro:

call without arguments, select the recording you want to output, choose the MP$ output, feed it your desired output resolution, tell it to respect the cutlist, give it a sensible average bitrate, walk away for many hours, done

[19:54:14]

iamlindoro:

bah, MP$, again

[19:54:16]

iamlindoro:

MP4

[19:54:24]

iamlindoro:

!trout iamlindoro shift

[19:54:24]

** MythLogBot slaps iamlindoro with a shift trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **

[19:54:50]

Wicked:

can it do a lossless transcode? or near lossless?

[19:55:02]

Wicked:

or is it really aimed at converting formats?

[19:55:09]

wagnerrp:

many many Many many glorious hours

[19:55:33]

iamlindoro:

The encode is lossy, but as long as you keep the resolution the same and aim at a high average bitrate, the odds of you noticing are near zero

[19:55:51]

** wagnerrp gets his goldfish **

[19:56:31]

wagnerrp:

and considering youre using x264 which is likely to be considerably more efficient than the hardware encoder in the hdpvr

[19:56:39]

wagnerrp:

you can probably get away with a decent drop in bitrate

[19:57:38]

Wicked:

hmm. seems nuvexport isnt part of my mythtv!

[19:57:47]

Wicked:

doing a locate cannot find it

[19:57:58]

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[19:58:04]

wagnerrp:

understand that on a modern multi-core processor, youre looking at compression times of a day or more for a movie

[19:58:20]

Wicked:

ya

[19:59:10]

iamlindoro:

nuvexport *is* a part of mythtv, it's just in the extras repository

[19:59:37]

iamlindoro:

It's a common packager issue for them not to include it

[20:00:04]

Wicked:

well on one system i used packages..on this on i installed from git

[20:00:24]

iamlindoro:

So you made the same mistake as most packagers, then ;)

[20:00:29]

iamlindoro:

https://github.com/MythTV/nuvexport

[20:01:01]

Wicked:

ah. k thanks

[20:01:26]

iamlindoro:

no prob

[20:02:39]

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[20:06:52]

Wicked:

let me guess...mythffmpeg is new to 0.24?

[20:07:29]

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[20:07:51]

iamlindoro:

yes

[20:07:53]

Wicked:

all im getting is: You need mythffmpeg in order to use nuvexport in --ffmpeg mode

[20:08:05]

Wicked:

ugh.i seriously just cannot win with this lol

[20:08:29]

wagnerrp:

actually, its new to 0.24-fixes

[20:08:35]

wagnerrp:

it did not exist on the release version

[20:09:25]

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[20:09:51]

Wicked:

:|

[20:11:28]

Wicked:

will a 0.24 client connect to a 0.23-fixes backend?

[20:11:38]

Wicked:

or do both need to be the same version?

[20:11:56]

wagnerrp:

same version

[20:12:04]

Wicked:

:|

[20:12:09]

wagnerrp:

preferably the same or similar revision, but its not necessary

[20:12:25]

wagnerrp:

youre /usually/ fine as long as you stay within the same version

[20:12:31]

Wicked:

yea.

[20:12:38]

wagnerrp:

make that same release version

[20:12:43]

wagnerrp:

all bets are off for development

[20:12:53]

Wicked:

i need to stay on 23 for a bit lnoger

[20:13:04]

Wicked:

i just keep striking out with this encoding stuff

[20:13:11]

wagnerrp:

a bit longer? what necessitates the wait?

[20:13:29]

Wicked:

one of the clients here uses xbmc

[20:13:40]

Wicked:

xbmc does not work on 24

[20:13:48]

Wicked:

well stable xbmc

[20:13:56]

wagnerrp:

sure they do, have for some time

[20:14:08]

Wicked:

not since 0.24

[20:14:08]

wagnerrp:

well... as much as xbmc has ever 'supported' mythtv

[20:14:25]

wagnerrp:

in that they dont really support any version, and just fake it

[20:14:26]

Wicked:

due to protocol changes in 24...xbmc will no longer work

[20:14:52]

wagnerrp:

the protocol changes in question were probably the programinfo length change

[20:16:06]

Wicked:

yea. im not sure on the nitty gritty stuff.

[20:16:19]

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[20:16:30]

Wicked:

but i know that in "dharma" the latest stable...doesnt work with 0.24

[20:16:41]

Wicked:

cmythlib or something needs to be updated

[20:16:42]

Wicked:

iirc

[20:16:42]

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[20:17:06]

wagnerrp:

as mentioned, cmyth never supported mythtv, it only faked it

[20:17:36]

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[20:19:09]

Wicked:

yup. but it did work hehe

[20:20:29]

wagnerrp:

kinda, mostly

[20:22:00]

Wicked:

yea. if all you wanted to do was watch recordings it was fine...but if you wanted to do anything else...mythfrontend is the way to go

[20:25:50]

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[20:30:15]

wagnerrp:

well if all you wanted to do was watch recordings, mythfrontend was the way to go

[20:30:43]

wagnerrp:

i dont believe xbmc supported any of the commercial skipping, cutlists, bookmarks, or anything of that sort

[20:34:18]

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[21:06:21]

Wicked:

wagnerrp, it supported commercial skipping...but it was forced always on...which i did not really like...since some shows myth flagged wrong.

[21:06:35]

sphery:

heh, Avatar 2 and 3 may have 48 or 60fps...

[21:06:43]

Wicked:

2 and 3?

[21:06:57]

Wicked:

news to me they are even makign them hehe

[21:06:59]

sphery:

yay, make every theater in the US replace all their projection equipment for at least one theater

[21:07:09]

sphery:

at least one screen? room?

[21:07:11]

sphery:

whatever

[21:07:15]

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[21:07:33]

sphery:

yeah, seems James is very sure that there will be both a 2 and 3

[21:08:01]

Wicked:

:o

[21:08:01]

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[21:08:08]

sphery:

after all, Avatar 1 = Disney Pocahontas on Pandora, so someone needs to do Aladdin on Pandora and The Little Mermaid on Pandora

[21:08:14]

wagnerrp:

sphery: every theater? i would have expected that projection equipment was at least good for 60fps

[21:08:20]

Wicked:

lol

[21:08:33]

sphery:

I assumed they were all designed for the 24fps that movies use?

[21:08:57]

wagnerrp:

i know someone who used to be a manager at one, and they were looking into running sports games and other events on the big screen, but could never get around the licensing

[21:09:08]

wagnerrp:

technologically, it was feasible

[21:09:15]

wagnerrp:

the display units have all manner of inputs

[21:09:40]

sphery:

yeah, but I'm sure James will require that they actually display in 48 or 60 fps

[21:09:41]

wagnerrp:

the digital imax systems are good for 72fps

[21:09:59]

sphery:

(versus accept a 60fps input and display at 24fps)

[21:10:16]

wagnerrp:

so if he wants higher framerate, i dont know why he cant just mandate imax

[21:10:37]

wagnerrp:

offer it in imax to those who want it, standard 24fps to those who dont

[21:10:59]

sphery:

[21:11:07]

sphery:

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinema#Digital_projection

[21:11:13]

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[21:11:43]

wagnerrp:

bluray can handle it in theory, it should have plenty of bitrate for it

[21:11:57]

foxbuntu:

i can haz imax @ home?

[21:12:00]

foxbuntu:

:D

[21:12:03]

sphery:

yeah, I'm only concerned if it means replacing all the digital projection equipment in theaters

[21:12:24]

sphery:

after all, movies are expensive enough, already

[21:12:51]

** foxbuntu hides before he gets hit for that lame comment **

[21:13:22]

sphery:

heh

[21:13:26]

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[21:13:36]

sphery:

foxbuntu: the hard part is fitting the 70-foot screen in the living room

[21:13:50]

foxbuntu:

sphery, meh, build a bigger room...

[21:13:59]

sphery:

:)

[21:14:06]

wagnerrp:

sphery: it doesnt have to be 70ft, it just has to be a relative amount of your field of vision

[21:14:23]

sphery:

ok, standard imax is 22x16.1m (72x52.8ft)

[21:14:46]

foxbuntu:

cool...it will fit in my basement!

[21:14:48]

wagnerrp:

in theory, you could have an imax strapped to a pair of glasses

[21:15:16]

sphery:

with Retina(TM)(C)(R)(Patent-Pending)(...) display, of course!

[21:15:16]

wagnerrp:

you could have it in your basement if you used rear projection and sat just a few feet from the screen

[21:15:24]

wagnerrp:

but then focus issues would come into play

[21:15:55]

wagnerrp:

certainly a two floor room would be doable

[21:15:58]

foxbuntu:

wagnerrp, in theory you could have a fast car for free too..

[21:16:31]

wagnerrp:

you could even have a balcony for upper level viewing

[21:16:38]

wagnerrp:

foxbuntu: just need to find a big enough hill

[21:17:50]

wagnerrp:

no, an imax rated screen in your home would not be that difficult, perhaps expensive, but not beyond the means of higher end home theater rooms

[21:18:00]

wagnerrp:

the bigger issue would be getting hold of content to play on it as a consumer

[21:18:25]

foxbuntu:

wagnerrp, yeah, the film reals for imax are a bit spendy

[21:18:28]

wagnerrp:

you cant just buy imax reels

[21:18:40]

wagnerrp:

those things are all leased/rented to the theaters

[21:19:05]

foxbuntu:

naw...they sell them in best buy/future shop ;)

[21:19:06]

wagnerrp:

and the digital films are all time encrypted

[21:19:25]

wagnerrp:

you have to have the proper keyfob, and its only good for a certain time span

[21:20:11]

foxbuntu:

thats odd considering the obscene amount of tehcnology you would have to own to play them much less rip them

[21:20:23]

wagnerrp:

not really

[21:20:53]

wagnerrp:

i mean youre talking about 10–15K for a projector

[21:21:09]

wagnerrp:

and the video card capable of that resolution would be a bit iffy, not sure what they do with that

[21:21:22]

wagnerrp:

but the video is just a sequence of jpeg2000

[21:21:42]

wagnerrp:

would probably just end up having the video spanned over four cards at 2K each

[21:22:03]

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[21:22:04]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: to Mark Lord's point, do you know if anybody actually has the framegrabber stuff working reliably in 0.24?

[21:22:15]

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[21:22:20]

wagnerrp:

cant say that i do

[21:22:40]

devinheitmueller:

I guess I'm just wondering, is it actually totally broken, or does he have a driver issue?

[21:22:47]

wagnerrp:

lack of use among developers may have resulted in a regression

[21:23:10]

wagnerrp:

but theres enough people still using framegrabbers on hybrid cards, in five months, someone should have said something

[21:23:18]

devinheitmueller:

I would have thought so

[21:23:42]

devinheitmueller:

Is Ubuntu shipping 0.24 by default?

[21:23:51]

wagnerrp:

no, 0.23.1

[21:23:59]

wagnerrp:

11.04 will have 0.24 when released

[21:24:02]

devinheitmueller:

Maybe 0.24 hasn't hit the more popular distros yet.

[21:24:48]

devinheitmueller:

I agree five months is quite a while, but if distros aren't carrying the binaries yet then that would easily explain it.

[21:25:14]

wagnerrp:

the mythbuntu people are really pushing their PPAs for their users

[21:25:52]

wagnerrp:

theyre getting a couple thousand downloads a month, and the vast majority of those are for 0.24

[21:26:10]

wagnerrp:

although how many of those downloads are from users updating multiple times a month, i cant say

[21:26:28]

wagnerrp:

http://mythbuntu.org/ppa-version-stats/stats.html

[21:26:32]

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[21:27:28]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I hear you.

[21:28:15]

sphery:

devinheitmueller: I think it's an issue that results in invalid encoding on some systems with some hardware/libs... Similar to the preview gen bug I linked, but that he removed from his reply

[21:28:25]

sphery:

also, there was a 64-bit nuv encoding fix that went in

[21:28:37]

sphery:

if he's not running current -fixes or master, he may well have a broken version

[21:28:42]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, entirely possible.

[21:28:57]

sphery:

(something about libz, IIRC)

[21:29:15]

devinheitmueller:

I guess I was really just trying to figure out whether I had to dig out an 800i board and see what was going on.

[21:29:41]

devinheitmueller:

(which I'm loathed to do, but would if it we believed there was *actually* an issue)

[21:30:38]

sphery:

since it's easy to mess up the config of a frame grabber in mythtv, I'd say it's quite possible it's on his end

[21:30:48]

sphery:

has he even tested the grabber with another app? xawtv or whatever?

[21:31:18]

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[21:31:21]

wagnerrp:

is he using input groups correctly?

[21:31:38]

devinheitmueller:

I'm pretty sure he knows about input groups.

[21:32:11]

devinheitmueller:

... and I would assume he tried the card with tvtime or something, but I don't see mention of it in his email thread.

[21:34:26]

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[21:35:26]

devinheitmueller:

There isn't really too much to screw up in a framegrabber config. The 950q has an issue because the mythtv backend code doesn't handle unsupported resolutions properly, but even in that case it will capture just fine and the picture will just be screwed up.

[21:36:04]

iamlindoro:

Am 99% certain the "unsupported resolutions" thing has been fixed now for a long time

[21:36:08]

iamlindoro:

in MBE, that is

[21:36:13]

devinheitmueller:

Oh?

[21:36:16]

iamlindoro:

yep

[21:36:22]

iamlindoro:

you haven't worked on it since .22, is that right?

[21:36:34]

devinheitmueller:

I thought somebody complained to me about it recently, but admittedly I don't know what he was running.

[21:36:36]

iamlindoro:

Assuming we're talking about the same thing

[21:36:43]

devinheitmueller:

Correct, I haven't touched any of that stuff since 0.22.

[21:36:50]

sphery:

devinheitmueller: I'm talking about messing up the recording profiles

[21:36:59]

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[21:37:20]

sphery:

i.e. switching the switches that say don't switch this (or even switching ones that don't)

[21:37:20]

devinheitmueller:

I'm talking about the case where if you say to capture at 480x480 the backend isn't smart enough to recognize when the driver comes back and says that isn't a supported resolution and to use 720x480 instead.

[21:37:27]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: This was an issue where we would specify a recording resolution, and submit it to the API, and the API would pass back the struct with a modified resolution

[21:37:34]

devinheitmueller:

Correct.

[21:37:36]

iamlindoro:

yeah, we fixed that a looooooong time ago

[21:37:39]

devinheitmueller:

cool.

[21:37:46]

iamlindoro:

2+ releases IIRC

[21:37:48]

devinheitmueller:

Perhaps the user was running an old version then.

[21:38:05]

sphery:

ah, so now we allow users to misconfigure their frame grabbers so that they /think/ they're doing one thing but they're not

[21:38:08]

sphery:

:)

[21:38:21]

sphery:

Am I the only one who would prefer to be told that something is wrong so I can fix it?

[21:38:30]

devinheitmueller:

Well, you could argue that the software shouldn't offer resolutions that are not supported by the underlying hardware.

[21:38:39]

sphery:

(granted, it's probably actually logged... but no log message is as visible as complete failure)

[21:38:54]

sphery:

true

[21:38:59]

devinheitmueller:

In this case, it didn't even error out. It would just create a malformed NUV that played back with a screwed up picture.

[21:39:04]

sphery:

and we do have a long way to go with mythtv setup

[21:39:27]

sphery:

I'm just saying that I don't much care for sweeping a misconfiguration problem under the rug--unless we actually reconfigure it for the user

[21:39:55]

sphery:

and my complaint is unrelated to the driver... it's mythtv code that needs improving

[21:39:59]

devinheitmueller:

Well, it's better than the alternative. I'm just thinking about the end user experience.

[21:40:12]

sphery:

and will likely be improved with the new setup

[21:40:15]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, yes, there is no way to blame this on the driver. :-)

[21:40:33]

devinheitmueller:

I did *exactly* what the spec called for.

[21:40:40]

sphery:

I'm saying the alternative is better--complete failure triggers re-configuration

[21:40:58]

sphery:

ignoring the misconfiguration means they think they're doing something and they're not

[21:41:01]

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[21:41:26]

sphery:

anyway, I'm a bit hard-lined on my opinions about misconfiguration

[21:41:28]

devinheitmueller:

Well, it would be better to not offer invalid capture resolutions than to show them invalid entries than show an error when they select an invalid option.

[21:41:33]

sphery:

and I'll be the first to admit it

[21:41:56]

sphery:

(which is also why I do a /lot/ of things the hard way...)

[21:42:12]

devinheitmueller:

That said, like most things, the developers have to decide how much effort it's really worth.

[21:42:14]

sphery:

agreed... setup sucks in mythtv

[21:42:21]

iamlindoro:

There are like three people max in our entire project who know anything about the v4l API

[21:42:21]

sphery:

but that's starting to change

[21:42:25]

iamlindoro:

NEED MORE MANS ;)

[21:42:34]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: what's wrong with women?

[21:42:39]

iamlindoro:

AND WOMANS

[21:42:42]

devinheitmueller:

better.

[21:42:55]

sphery:

isn't MANS an ffmpeg guy?

[21:43:03]

sphery:

what's he have to do with v4l?

[21:43:26]

sphery:

:)

[21:45:31]

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[21:46:39]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/74675 . . . 1d29a93e7932

[21:46:48]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: We can celebrate that fixes birthday next week

[21:47:13]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: It's not like I didn't believe you.

[21:47:23]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: I know, just was curious personally how long ago it was

[21:47:26]

devinheitmueller:

Am I to assume that went into 0.23?

[21:47:29]

iamlindoro:

and once I found it I *had* to post it :)

[21:47:47]

sphery:

wow, rights holders for the song Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree won their copyright lawsuit against Men at Work/EMI Music for a similar flute riff in Down Under--which was released in 1983...and they just got sued in 2010

[21:48:11]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: I honestly don't know a quick way to tell with git

[21:48:21]

devinheitmueller:

never mind then.

[21:48:22]

iamlindoro:

.24 for sure, .23 for probably

[21:48:33]

sphery:

iamlindoro: agreed... github makes it extremely tough to tell

[21:49:09]

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[21:52:12]

devinheitmueller:

Looking at my email, the guy reported the issue on Mar 17th, so it was pretty recent.

[21:52:19]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: Backported, looks like: https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/57a73 . . . 4fc7c215f48e

[21:52:22]

devinheitmueller:

(I had to tell him to change from 480x480 to 720x480)

[21:52:22]

devinheitmueller:

...

[21:52:46]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, he was running whatever MythTV shipped with Ubuntu 10.04

[21:52:52]

iamlindoro:

So if he were on the .23 Mythbuntu... yeah

[21:52:54]

iamlindoro:

:)

[21:52:58]

iamlindoro:

which was pre-.23

[21:53:02]

iamlindoro:

and not actually .23 at all

[21:53:04]

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[21:53:08]

devinheitmueller:

Fair enough.

[21:54:36]

sphery:

yeah, sounds like he definitely needs to upgrade to current 0.23-fixes, or even 0.24-fixes

[21:55:30]

devinheitmueller:

Hey, I've got no problem with that. I was just trying to figure out why a guy would complain about the issue only two weeks ago. If he was running 10.04, then it being fixed in a later build is a perfectly reasonable response.

[21:55:39]

devinheitmueller:

... and in the meantime, he just had to fix his capture resolution.

[21:55:58]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: I get the sense that you're getting frustrated-- we're just trying to help

[21:56:33]

devinheitmueller:

I'm not frustrated at all. I'm apologizing for having caused a stir over a non-issue.

[21:56:55]

sphery:

yeah, I'm just saying that I had just assumed he was using something stable and/or current...

[21:56:57]

iamlindoro:

No stir, worth verifying that it was fixed, and if he *had* been later than that, that the issue was still open

[21:57:03]

sphery:

I do that way too often

[21:57:08]

devinheitmueller:

I was just doing an internal sanity check because I was surprised to get a report so recently.

[22:05:34]

Wicked:

iamlindoro, any idea if your hdpvr_lossless_cut will still work? http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Iamlindoro

[22:06:21]

Wicked:

and is that made to be run from cli? or as a myth job?

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[22:20:03]

EvilBob:

wagnerrp: Found the source of my fine tuning problem, bad cable. I was able to get the problem channels "better" but still not great. CHanged the Coax and... awesome.

[22:29:54]

wagnerrp:

yeah, that happens

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[23:03:08]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: well to be fair, encoder cards have always been the rare premium behind cheap brooktree cards and similar ilk

[23:03:43]

devinheitmueller:

sure. That said though, they have come down in price, but I fear they will become more and more rare.

[23:03:44]

wagnerrp:

as long as hauppauge wants to continue selling them, ill be content

[23:04:11]

devinheitmueller:

I suspect they will continue selling them, but they may very well become a smaller percentage of cards sold compared to others that lack encoders.

[23:04:39]

devinheitmueller:

(for example, cards such as the HVR-1250 might become more popular than the 1850)

[23:05:58]

devinheitmueller:

Sure, the 1850 is a better card, but with a fifty dollar price difference and most users not being able to tell the difference, I suspect many will buy the 1250.

[23:06:07]

wagnerrp:

personally, i still have no trouble telling people that if they want to record analog in mythtv (which they may very well need to for cable), they need an encoder card

[23:06:25]

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[23:06:29]

devinheitmueller:

I hear you.

[23:06:37]

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[23:07:04]

wagnerrp:

although to be honest, me, and most of the regs in here, have already been saying that for years

[23:07:19]

wagnerrp:

so long as its still an option at reasonable price

[23:07:26]

devinheitmueller:

I'm just looking at the market. Way more HVR-950Qs get sold than HVR-1600s.

[23:07:54]

wagnerrp:

see, now i dont understand that

[23:08:08]

wagnerrp:

this may just be my unbased opinion, but i dont trust USB tuners

[23:08:16]

wagnerrp:

or for that matter, USB devices in general

[23:08:19]

wagnerrp:

i just dont like them

[23:08:20]

devinheitmueller:

It's a much cheaper product.

[23:08:37]

wagnerrp:

cheaper than the 1600, sure... not cheaper than the 1250

[23:08:58]

devinheitmueller:

I hear you. I wouldn't build an HTPC with a USB tuner (well, maybe except for the HVR-1950).

[23:09:43]

devinheitmueller:

Yup, the 1250 is even cheaper than the 950q, all the more reason somebody might want to use a device like that for a cheap MythTV box.

[23:09:59]

wagnerrp:

(like me, who bought one three years ago)

[23:10:05]

devinheitmueller:

(assuming they have a PC that isn't from the stoneage and can handle the extra CPU load)

[23:11:15]

wagnerrp:

but at the time, i bought it with the knowledge i would never use it for analog (and in fact analog wasnt even supported)

[23:11:38]

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[23:11:53]

devinheitmueller:

Sure.

[23:11:56]

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[23:12:05]

wagnerrp:

to be fair though, a HVR-1250 is $50 for a single tuner

[23:12:15]

wagnerrp:

on newegg right now, an HVR-2250 is only $110

[23:12:25]

wagnerrp:

an extra $5/tuner for encoders

[23:12:48]

devinheitmueller:

All I'm saying is that in general you want MythTV to support the most popular products, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the framegrabber based cards becoming the dominant players.

[23:13:14]

wagnerrp:

much as i hate to agree with that... youre probably right

[23:16:17]

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[23:18:17]

kisak:

I, for one, am quite glad that I never have to deal with a framegrabber again

[23:18:51]

kisak:

just with the fact that firewire is brittle

[23:20:13]

wagnerrp:

well with any luck, the HDHRP will eventually make it to market, and you can replace your STB rental and firewire with one of those and a cablecard rental

[23:20:46]

kisak:

indeed

[23:20:55]

kisak:

I would go for that

[23:20:57]

wagnerrp:

daniel has been making a lot of commits to the -rec branch, i wonder how the ceton support is going

[23:21:30]

devinheitmueller:

Took me a second to figure out what "HDHRP" stood for. :-)

[23:22:00]

wagnerrp:

yeah, still no copy protected content, but it should be able to access anything mythtv already could over firewire

[23:22:48]

wagnerrp:

and exchanging $30/mo in STB rentals for a $4/mo MS card, would make up the product cost in short order

[23:22:59]

wagnerrp:

assuming youre not otherwise using those same STBs for analog capture as well

[23:23:41]

wagnerrp:

apparently their techs have been using samples in production on their own MythTV boxes for over a year now

[23:25:53]

kisak:

so support is already confirmed

[23:26:15]

wagnerrp:

weve supported it since shortly after the release of 0.23

[23:26:49]

wagnerrp:

last i heard, there was still some usability cleanup needed in terms of how the device is configured

[23:27:10]

wagnerrp:

but anyone running 0.24 can plug one into their network and go

[23:43:28]

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