Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Sunday, March 20th, 2011, 00:03 UTC

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[02:59:10]

brikp:

I have a question about mythvideo. Anyone game?

[02:59:18]

myco:

!ask

[02:59:41]

brikp:

ok, I have a FE and BE setup. FE also installed on BE....

[02:59:47]

myco:

generally best not to ask to ask – just ask

[03:00:08]

brikp:

Video plays fine on backend which has a low end graphics card.

[03:00:36]

brikp:

video on FE is pixelated sometimes. Only with, i think, mkv files.

[03:01:03]

brikp:

using storage groups, cant do alternate player.

[03:01:16]

brikp:

When connecting via a share to vlc it plays fine

[03:01:31]

wagnerrp:

the only reason one frontend would decode different from another is if you are using a different decoder

[03:01:40]

myco:

^^^

[03:01:51]

wagnerrp:

such as... the standard (ffmpeg) decoders on the backend, and the vdpau decoder on the frontend

[03:02:03]

myco:

or other way round

[03:02:04]

brikp:

exactly

[03:02:14]

brikp:

vdpau is on my FE and not backend

[03:02:18]

wagnerrp:

so... if youre not satisfied with vdpau, dont use it

[03:02:22]

wagnerrp:

use the ffmpeg decoders

[03:02:54]

myco:

before doing that – try using a less intensive deintelacer

[03:02:59]

myco:

what GPU is it?

[03:03:07]

brikp:

atom ION

[03:03:16]

brikp:

nivdia

[03:03:21]

wagnerrp:

so... using the ffmpeg decoders isnt an option

[03:03:40]

wagnerrp:

this is why we recommend you people buy real hardware

[03:03:56]

brikp:

"you people" lol

[03:04:06]

wagnerrp:

as in 'the users'

[03:04:20]

myco:

just set deinterlace ot none

[03:04:33]

brikp:

I can play 1080p stuff perfectly in most cases, only certain mkv files go wonky

[03:04:34]

myco:

the gpu isnt up to much more

[03:04:45]

wagnerrp:

or rather, use the VDPAU Normal playback profile

[03:05:12]

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[03:05:12]

myco:

then u just dont have enough kick to decode em

[03:05:37]

wagnerrp:

its not a matter of enough 'kick'

[03:05:45]

myco:

?

[03:05:55]

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[03:06:03]

wagnerrp:

stuff you want to decode with VDPAU must fit with a very limited group of encoder settings

[03:06:12]

wagnerrp:

it must be level 4.1 content

[03:06:21]

wagnerrp:

and you cant use some B structures

[03:06:25]

wagnerrp:

or some macroblock sizes

[03:06:36]

wagnerrp:

and there are other encoder settings that make it go nuts

[03:06:44]

brikp:

yeah, i can play them fine on a less powerful backend

[03:07:06]

wagnerrp:

that would be... more powerful backend

[03:07:14]

myco:

less powerful? what is it a pentium 3?

[03:07:19]

wagnerrp:

since the backend was using the ffmpeg decoders

[03:07:26]

wagnerrp:

which an Atom would be incapable of on anything HD

[03:08:30]

brikp:

i disagree, i can play 1080p bd content on the ION fine

[03:08:38]

wagnerrp:

that does mean its powerful

[03:08:41]

wagnerrp:

doesnt

[03:08:45]

brikp:

with 5.1 and spdif out

[03:09:14]

wagnerrp:

and audio channels are completely irrelevant if your using passthrough spdif

[03:09:19]

wagnerrp:

since there is no processing, just passthrough

[03:09:30]

wagnerrp:

there is no need for any CPU power

[03:09:35]

brikp:

yeah, i guess its not "powerful" just capable of the highest quality video content in most cases.

[03:09:59]

wagnerrp:

now a dual core Atom is about a third as fast as it needs to be to play bluray content

[03:10:06]

myco:

it can use vdpau for a lot o stuff – just can only do SD without

[03:10:16]

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[03:10:27]

myco:

and the gpu isnt even as good as an 8400gs

[03:10:45]

wagnerrp:

actually, the 9400M is considerably better than an 8400GS

[03:10:55]

brikp:

my backend has a GeForce 6200

[03:11:03]

wagnerrp:

and what processor?

[03:11:08]

myco:

oh, 9400 – thought 8300

[03:11:23]

brikp:

not sure, checking....

[03:11:30]

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[03:12:02]

myco:

dual core athlon 64 i bet

[03:12:06]

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[03:12:32]

brikp:

not sure how to check from mythbuntu

[03:12:49]

wagnerrp:

run 'cat /proc/cpuinfo', and dump it into a pastebin

[03:13:46]

myco:

or just look at the line after model name

[03:13:51]

brikp:

p4 2.60Ghz

[03:14:38]

wagnerrp:

single or dual core?

[03:14:45]

wagnerrp:

actually, its single

[03:14:50]

wagnerrp:

the slowest dual core was a 2.8

[03:15:06]

wagnerrp:

single or dual core Atom?

[03:15:23]

brikp:

single on BE

[03:15:33]

myco:

and FE ?

[03:15:34]

wagnerrp:

270 or 330?

[03:15:39]

brikp:

The FE is an Atom 330 dual core

[03:16:01]

wagnerrp:

so, you are correct, your frontend actually IS more powerful than your backend

[03:16:09]

wagnerrp:

and both are woefully inadequate for bluray content

[03:16:27]

myco:

do you have multithreaded decode enabled on the FE?

[03:17:10]

brikp:

I usually have BE headless, just doing HD recordings and stuff. Seems to work fine....

[03:17:12]

wagnerrp:

doesnt matter, he might get 2–3mbps out of each of those Atom cores

[03:17:46]

myco:

could use a p2 for a backend if u rnt playing or transcoding or commercial marking

[03:17:48]

brikp:

multithreaded decode? Would that be a bios thing?

[03:17:53]

myco:

or recording analog

[03:18:02]

wagnerrp:

that would be a mythtv thing

[03:18:09]

brikp:

recording only digital and commercial flagging

[03:18:41]

wagnerrp:

brikp: my point is, the only reason you can use that Atom, is because youve got a custom ASIC, and video decoder, built into your video card

[03:18:54]

wagnerrp:

having an application processor does not mean a system is powerful

[03:19:09]

brikp:

AGREED

[03:19:11]

wagnerrp:

it only means it can be used for whatever specific application that processor was built for

[03:19:21]

brikp:

i understand

[03:19:25]

wagnerrp:

and all video decoders are inherently limited in the types of video they cant handle

[03:19:32]

brikp:

okay

[03:19:46]

brikp:

so, then you are saying...

[03:19:56]

myco:

put up with it or upgrade

[03:19:58]

wagnerrp:

which is why the recommended frontend is one that has enough real CPU to fall back on should the hardware decoder have problems

[03:20:13]

wagnerrp:

such as this pixellation problem you seem to be having with VDPAU

[03:20:25]

wagnerrp:

either that, you just just encoded this MKV poorly

[03:20:26]

brikp:

The software decoder on the P4 is more capable, in some circumstances, than the hardware decoder on the ION

[03:20:41]

wagnerrp:

actually no, as mentioend that P4 is in fact slower than the Atom

[03:21:08]

brikp:

okay, then why does the .mkv play on the BE and not on the FE?

[03:21:23]

brikp:

well, it plays, just gets pixelated every so often

[03:21:37]

wagnerrp:

apparently you encoded it at sufficiently low bitrate that the limited power of that P4 is enough to handle it

[03:21:42]

brikp:

every 10–20 seconds for about half a second

[03:22:07]

brikp:

i'm still learning the encoding...

[03:22:15]

wagnerrp:

in which case you should similarly be able to play it back on that Atom

[03:22:39]

brikp:

right, but it doesnt, hence me coming here looking for suggestions.

[03:22:54]

wagnerrp:

switch to the software decoder

[03:22:56]

wagnerrp:

use the Slim profile

[03:24:26]

brikp:

vdpau on the FE

[03:24:37]

brikp:

Its only certain files

[03:24:57]

brikp:

I would rather keep the settings where they work for most every thing else.

[03:25:18]

brikp:

and transcode differently I guess.

[03:25:43]

brikp:

the files are coded as follows....

[03:26:24]

brikp:

H264 MPED-4 AVC (Part 10) (avc1)...

[03:26:35]

brikp:

1280x720

[03:26:38]

wagnerrp:

honestly, with how slowly that P4 is going to transcode

[03:26:47]

wagnerrp:

it would be /cheaper/ to just buy more hard drives

[03:26:51]

brikp:

23.97...

[03:27:00]

wagnerrp:

than to spend the money on electricity running that P4 at full load

[03:27:05]

brikp:

lol

[03:27:32]

brikp:

okay, so I want to look at the following (to try and get playback)...

[03:28:07]

brikp:

multithreaded decode...

[03:28:27]

brikp:

software decoder...

[03:28:30]

wagnerrp:

multithreaded decode will be set to 2 threads by default

[03:28:34]

brikp:

slim profile

[03:28:45]

wagnerrp:

but it will only matter if you are encoding that h264 video in slices

[03:28:57]

brikp:

and thats where it should be?

[03:29:10]

wagnerrp:

if you are using the default x264 options, it will choose 1.5x + 1 the number of cores

[03:29:35]

brikp:

which, i presume is ideal?

[03:30:00]

wagnerrp:

thats the default number of slices it will use

[03:30:25]

wagnerrp:

meaning it would use two encoding on that P4, which would allow you to use two threads decoding, fully utilizing that dual core atom

[03:30:42]

brikp:

gotcha

[03:31:29]

brikp:

okay, and on the FE, checking for slim or software, not "vdpau High" may have a result for playing back my wonky videos?

[03:31:49]

wagnerrp:

well you should not be using VDPAU High on that graphics chip

[03:31:58]

wagnerrp:

but considering this is progressive content, it doesnt mattter

[03:32:05]

wagnerrp:

you should be using VDPAU Normal, or Slim

[03:32:12]

wagnerrp:

Slim would use the software decoders

[03:32:29]

brikp:

I'm not sure actually, it may be normal, i'm in a different room.

[03:32:51]

brikp:

okay, so slim means it will use SW not vdpau

[03:32:59]

brikp:

Thats something to try

[03:33:10]

wagnerrp:

correct

[03:33:14]

brikp:

coool

[03:33:28]

brikp:

or, mount a share and play with VLC

[03:34:17]

myco:

or even use the web interface

[03:34:34]

wagnerrp:

web interface?

[03:34:43]

myco:

mythweb – if he has it

[03:34:49]

brikp:

yup, I downloaded viamythweb and it works fine

[03:34:51]

wagnerrp:

not for mythvideo

[03:35:13]

brikp:

you can download, not stream, with mythweb for mythvideo (right?)

[03:35:24]

wagnerrp:

no, not at current

[03:35:49]

wagnerrp:

its been broken since the switch to storage groups in 0.22

[03:36:06]

brikp:

k, i got confused with a recording I downloaded

[03:36:39]

wagnerrp:

ideally, mythweb will access videos over the XML interface from here forward

[03:37:10]

brikp:

yeah, the storage groups got me on a wrong path when trying to set up an alternate player (didnt realize that woouldnt work )

[03:37:37]

brikp:

okay, brb, I'm gona set to slim and see what happens.

[03:43:30]

brikp:

okay, tried two settings. original was "vdpau normal", "vdpau slim"=no change, "slim" no pizelation but the video stutters and pauses every few seconds.

[03:43:55]

wagnerrp:

its progressive content, normal vs. slim will make absolutely no difference

[03:44:53]

brikp:

okay, just for grins, I'm going to mount a share and play with VLC.

[03:45:12]

brikp:

opinions on how that will work?

[03:45:21]

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[03:45:53]

wagnerrp:

VLC should have the same VDPAU playback limits as mythtv, all either will do is pump the compressed video into the interface, the hardware handles the rest

[03:46:41]

brikp:

yup, that makes sense, I want to prove it looks the same.

[03:47:07]

brikp:

just to rule out mythtv and the internal player

[03:47:15]

brikp:

brb

[03:52:03]

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[03:55:41]

** wagnerrp goes... elsewhere **

[04:02:08]

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[04:13:54]

brikp:

wagnerrp – you still on?

[04:15:33]

brikp:

just to close the loop – VLC via an SMB share plays the same as the embeded player, as expected.

[04:16:18]

brikp:

What doesnt make sense to me is why the P4 can play the video in question when the atom/ION cant.

[04:16:37]

brikp:

lastly – Thanks for you help!

[04:16:40]

brikp:

night all

[04:16:56]

wagnerrp:

the Atom cant play the content in Slim?

[04:17:18]

wagnerrp:

if its single sliced content, the P4 will be more powerful

[04:17:26]

wagnerrp:

if its multi-sliced, the Atom will be more powerful

[04:17:29]

brikp:

yes, it plays, just pauses, not pixelated.

[04:18:02]

wagnerrp:

run 'top', and see if you have load on one or both cores during playback

[04:18:15]

brikp:

while in 'slim'?

[04:18:43]

brikp:

will do...

[04:22:40]

brikp:

not sure how to see if load on both CPUs... mythtv is using 104%cpu

[04:22:51]

wagnerrp:

press '1'

[04:22:57]

brikp:

fe log prebufferingpaus messages

[04:23:12]

brikp:

pressing '1' brb...

[04:25:22]

brikp:

it shows 4 CPUs, 0,1,2,3 #3 is at 100% others are minimal

[04:26:10]

brikp:

sooo, how to tell mythtv to use all CPUs?

[04:26:31]

wagnerrp:

edit the slim profile, and make sure it is set to use 2 CPUs

[04:26:53]

brikp:

gotcha! Thats where i was gona look.

[04:27:11]

brikp:

Wagnerrp – thanks very much!

[04:27:26]

brikp:

i owe you a beer or three

[04:31:26]

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brikp:

with maxCPUs set for 2 (or 4) it still seems to hit only one CPU at 100% and others are minimal.

[04:39:18]

wagnerrp:

then perhaps you have a single sliced file

[04:40:03]

brikp:

ok, could be. How can I check? (I guess i'm being a pain in the ass now)

[04:40:29]

wagnerrp:

dont know off hand

[04:42:08]

brikp:

alrighty, well. Enough play time. Thanks again.

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maccco:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Manual:HDAudioPassthrough it says nvidia gforce 8xxx doesn't support hbr. But i'm able to send 8 discreate 192khz channels to my recevier

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[10:41:35]

judget:

does myth 0.24 support the scte65 type of channel scaning?

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[11:08:16]

judget:

does myth 0.24 support scanning OAB frequencies for channel table information?

[11:10:58]

myco:

can scan – but why when u can DL??

[11:22:20]

judget:

huh

[11:22:24]

judget:

??

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[11:30:48]

myco:

generally best to download for ur area

[11:31:28]

myco:

ur in USA – use schedulesdirect

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[13:49:07]

TLE:

Hallo everyone. I'm looking at the hauppauge mc and mce remote control kits for my Ubuntu 10.10 mythtv based media center, and so I have two questions:

[13:49:44]

TLE:

1) Do these remotes "just work" i.e. out of the box with lirc and mythtv?

[13:50:27]

TLE:

2) (Slightly off topic I guess) Do you know if their IR recievers can be used to pick up IR signals from other remotes as well?

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[14:51:37]

wagnerrp:

the mceusb remotes are supported by lirc, and the mceusb driver (or mceusb2 on older versions)

[14:51:57]

wagnerrp:

the stock lircd.conf should be programmed for the IR codes sent from the remote

[14:52:31]

wagnerrp:

and the receiver is not pre-programmed to specific codes, so you can set up your own codes in lircd.conf that you want to receive beyond what the packaged remote will do

[14:53:23]

TLE:

wagnerrp: awesome, thanks a lot

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[14:55:35]

** TLE fires up the browser and heads to the local hardware store **

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[15:51:02]

Seeker`:

is there a way of forcing mythtv to rescan all metadata?

[15:52:08]

wagnerrp:

move your content to a new folder, scan

[15:52:13]

wagnerrp:

move it back, scan again

[15:52:43]

wagnerrp:

all your videos will be flushed out of the database, with new entries in their place

[15:53:02]

wagnerrp:

and the bulk scanner in 0.24 will be willing to operate on them again

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[16:04:12]

Seeker`:

wagnerrp: thanks. Managed to change the tmdb scanner to get British movie certificates, but it seems they don't have most of them :/

[16:04:47]

wagnerrp:

the tmdb script should automatically get them if you set your locale properly

[16:04:59]

wagnerrp:

scratch that

[16:05:13]

wagnerrp:

the tmdb script should get ALL movie certifications regardless

[16:05:21]

wagnerrp:

and mythvideo will select the one that matches your locale

[16:06:51]

Seeker`:

wagnerrp: it hasn't been

[16:07:52]

wagnerrp:

if it doesnt have one specific to your locale, it will probably default to whatever is available

[16:11:48]

Seeker`:

wagnerrp: in the settings table, what format should "Language" be in?

[16:12:21]

wagnerrp:

it should be whatever mythtv set it to

[16:12:58]

Seeker`:

well, I seem to have "en", "EN_GB" and "en_GB" in my settings table

[16:13:43]

wagnerrp:

the language_dialect should be the currently used versions

[16:13:52]

wagnerrp:

'en' might be an old setting from an unused frontend

[16:18:05]

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[16:21:16]

Seeker`:

wagnerrp: I changed the lanauge setting in the db, when I run the metadata grabber, it runs tmdb.py -l en -D 170

[16:21:37]

wagnerrp:

correct

[16:21:49]

wagnerrp:

because en_US and en_GB are both 'en'

[16:22:00]

Seeker`:

(for that specific film), which returns the US rating. If i run it manually with -l en-gb it returns the british one

[16:22:11]

wagnerrp:

it should be returning both sets

[16:22:15]

wagnerrp:

what film?

[16:22:16]

Seeker`:

it doesn't

[16:22:21]

Seeker`:

that film is 28 days later

[16:22:24]

wagnerrp:

oh, 170

[16:22:25]

wagnerrp:

\right

[16:23:42]

Seeker`:

and when I edit the script to force it to use en-gb, it sometimes returns the british rating and sometimes returns NR

[16:24:32]

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[16:35:43]

iamlindoro:

MythTV only grabs the first certification returned by a metadata script, it doesn't do any locale matching yet

[16:36:16]

iamlindoro:

When the universal metadata code was written, TMDB still didn't support localized ratings, or indeed ratings of any kind

[16:36:52]

iamlindoro:

But it was added to the specification in anticipation of when it did-- the loop has merely not been closed yet to match returned certifications to the locale of the user

[16:37:24]

wagnerrp:

in any case, seems the tmdb api only returns the cert from the locale queried

[16:38:37]

wagnerrp:

and the script doesnt quite seem to handle it properly

[16:38:43]

wagnerrp:

[16:38:50]

Seeker`:

iamlindoro: it seems that the tmdb api flags any returned certificates as "us" locale

[16:39:05]

Seeker`:

so even if mythtv did process it properly, it wouldn't pick up anything

[16:39:34]

wagnerrp:

the tmdb api doesnt flag the cert as anything

[16:40:21]

wagnerrp:

the mythtv side of it just assumes the cert is 'us', as when it was written, tmdb did not return anything else

[16:40:26]

Seeker`:

ah, ok

[16:40:29]

Seeker`:

fair enough

[16:40:40]

iamlindoro:

When it was written, TMDB didn't return anything at all :)

[16:41:06]

iamlindoro:

But once it started, everything had been planned for and it started working, which was nice

[16:42:08]

iamlindoro:

But as with everything TMDB, it was done in half measures, and at first all you could get was US certifications

[16:42:28]

iamlindoro:

Now you apparently can get more certs, but they've somewhat foolishly conflated locale and language

[16:42:53]

Ryushin:

I have something very odd occurring on my backend. The local capture cards are thinking they are remote to itself. I just upgraded to 2.6.38 to support a new usb tuner. I also added ipv6 a month ago. Disabling ipv6 did not make any difference.

[16:43:32]

Ryushin:

I've verified that my hostname and IP addresses are correct in the frontend and mythtv-setup

[16:44:03]

wagnerrp:

mythtv doesnt do anything with ipv6 one way or another

[16:44:12]

iamlindoro:

nor with hostnames, which is likely the problem

[16:44:17]

Seeker`:

*sigh* looks like I'm going to have to go and edit tmbd for a load of the UK ratings anyway

[16:47:18]

Ryushin:

Only the identifier is using the hostname. All other entires for the frontend, backend, and mysql are using ipv4 addresses.

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[18:04:29]

Seeker`:

I think that UK TV channels have managed to find a way of avoiding advert detection

[18:05:00]

wagnerrp:

no, more that most of the development of the commercial detection was done by US devs on US content

[18:05:37]

wagnerrp:

the strategies that work well over here, dont work so well over there

[18:06:48]

Seeker`:

well, it is worse than it used to be

[18:07:19]

Seeker`:

to the point where it is basically unusable

[18:08:25]

wagnerrp:

someone on the mailing list seems to have some amount of success jury rigging some mp3 splitter designed for silence detection into an external commercial detection script

[18:09:00]

wagnerrp:

its an ugly hack, but it might be worth someone properly implementing it into the real commflagger

[18:09:33]

wagnerrp:

would need a fair bit of work through, audio is not currently handled in the commflagger

[18:12:39]

Seeker`:

you mean http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Silence-detect.sh

[18:12:39]

Seeker`:

?

[18:16:25]

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[18:18:06]

sphery:

wagnerrp: you got the lock/free tuner stuff working? did you find out why it wasn't working before?

[18:19:10]

sphery:

Seeker`: and, yeah, I would love to see someone work on implementing a proper audio-based detection in our commflagger

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[18:24:41]

Seeker`:

sphery: I would, but I have 0 knowledge of the mythtv code, i'd probably spend so much time asking questions that it would be faster for someone else to do it :P

[18:26:25]

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[18:36:43]

iamlindoro:

We all had 0 knowledge until we cared enough about something to get it done ;) It might be faster for someone else to do the project itself, but you're likely looking at a long wait before someone even looks at it, if ever

[18:37:52]

sphery:

very true

[18:38:13]

sphery:

since most of the devs who actually care about commercial detection are in the US--and find that it works well enough for us

[18:38:34]

sphery:

TTBOMK, none of the UK devs are that interested in commercial detection

[18:40:23]

Seeker`:

just trying to get that script working atm

[18:41:33]

sphery:

IIRC, just inh spent a couple of days getting it working, then used it for a week or so, then found it was not nearly as useful as he initially though, and now has it disabled.

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[18:49:26]

Seeker`:

sphery: any idea what was wrong with it?

[18:49:39]

Seeker`:

sphery: missing adverts, or putting them where they shouldn't be?

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[18:52:52]

sphery:

Seeker`: not sure

[18:56:05]

sphery:

heh, how did I know that someone would disagree with wagnerrp's comment about using a VM

[18:56:24]

sphery:

(and it's not because I think he's wrong :)

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[19:34:58]

Seeker`:

is it just me, or does the silence detection page say the silence is 0.12 seconds, yet the smallest silence to look for on the script page is 0.15 seconds

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[19:38:17]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i knew why it wasnt working the minute i looked at the code

[19:38:25]

wagnerrp:

it hasnt worked since i took charge of the bindings

[19:38:40]

wagnerrp:

because the calls relied on a method i removed from MythBE() prior to 0.23

[19:40:43]

Seeker`:

wagnerrp: that script works pretty much perfectly on a simpsons episode if you change the 0.15 to 0.12 at the top

[19:41:28]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i thought the scheduler would barf if there were no available tuner cards at the time it started up

[19:41:49]

wagnerrp:

and the only available tuner cards would be those on the master backend

[19:41:53]

wagnerrp:

as no slave has had a chance to connect

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[20:29:44]

sphery:

wagnerrp: no, the "check" that's become exposed isn't a proper check--it looks for any capture card in the DB

[20:30:06]

sphery:

(meaning it's not a check but was some sanity test that was put in for something else)

[20:30:10]

wagnerrp:

20 seconds too late

[20:31:28]

sphery:

yeah, your reply is good

[20:31:45]

sphery:

basically "though that would make the backend run, it would do so with all the known issues that tunerless backends have"

[20:32:04]

sphery:

(or your final thought part of it)

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[20:33:18]

wagnerrp:

im replying to the mailing list archive, i never got either of those messages

[20:33:32]

** wagnerrp needs to start an anti-virtualization agency **

[20:33:55]

sphery:

ah, interesting... that explains the unthreadedness

[20:34:09]

sphery:

and, yeah, I'll support the anti-virt agency

[20:34:25]

** wagnerrp needs to 'take care of' the new neighbor who seems to enjoy playing country music outside, loudly... **

[20:34:45]

sphery:

heh, I thought that was normal in the midwest

[20:34:51]

sphery:

(I grew up in IL)

[20:35:59]

wagnerrp:

this is a fairly quiet neighborhood, no one plays music outside loudly of any kind

[20:36:33]

sphery:

yeah, doing so is just inconsiderate

[20:37:01]

sphery:

only ones who really did where I grew up were out in the middle of the corn fields

[20:37:02]

wagnerrp:

theres no 'rule' or anything, people on my street just dont do it for some reason

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wagnerrp:

plus its country... we simply cant have that...

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