Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, March 15th, 2011, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:01]

beadle:

or independant?

[00:00:36]

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[00:01:23]

sphery:

the only code that is in any way still useful is already in mythtv in commflag2... experimental commflagger

[00:01:32]

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[00:01:40]

sphery:

will probably be significantly worse for US users, might be slightly better for non-US

[00:02:11]

beadle:

if they've unified I would like to contact. sorry to be a nag... ;)

[00:02:53]

sphery:

unified?

[00:03:58]

beadle:

How important does the MythTV developers think about commercial flagging? I mean, there's lots being done. For me it's a driver.

[00:04:25]

beadle:

unified their efforts. coordinated on a project or something like that

[00:04:32]

wagnerrp:

generally its left at 'its works well enough for me'

[00:04:36]

sphery:

we'll accept any improvements that don't make commflagging worse for others

[00:04:42]

beadle:

or just individual sporadic attempts

[00:04:45]

sphery:

all the code is already in mythtv

[00:04:49]

sphery:

see the commflag2 code

[00:04:54]

sphery:

and check the mailing lists

[00:05:01]

sphery:

literally, no one has done /anything/ in years

[00:05:13]

sphery:

at least 4 years since the last work on commflag2 basically died out

[00:05:36]

wagnerrp:

it would be interesting to see someone properly implement that sound thing

[00:05:40]

sphery:

so no worries about doing work someone else is doing

[00:05:51]

sphery:

yeah, that's really the only one likely to be useful at this point

[00:06:00]

sphery:

but requires a pretty major change to the infrastructure

[00:06:10]

wagnerrp:

rather than a hackish bash script thats run externally

[00:06:23]

wagnerrp:

i really have no clue how the commflagger is set up

[00:06:25]

beadle:

I see. Thank you.

[00:07:05]

sphery:

biggest problem with the sound part is that sound isn't even decoded at this point

[00:07:24]

sphery:

so would require modifying the infrastructure to allow sound

[00:08:41]

beadle:

recent legislation to normalize sound levels of commercials. actuallly I thought that might be targeted at myth

[00:08:48]

beadle:

clearly I'm just paranoid

[00:08:52]

beadle:

;)

[00:09:10]

wagnerrp:

no, thats targetted at the stations which do independent normalization of shows and ads

[00:09:21]

wagnerrp:

since theres less content to normalize on the ad

[00:09:28]

wagnerrp:

the whole thing gets amped up

[00:09:39]

wagnerrp:

so its significantly louder than the rest of the show

[00:09:51]

wagnerrp:

its not intentional per se

[00:09:58]

wagnerrp:

they just have no motivation to do any better

[00:10:14]

beadle:

yeah it's easy to amp up the sound

[00:10:24]

wagnerrp:

well its not that its easy

[00:10:29]

wagnerrp:

its that their encoders are doing it automatically

[00:10:49]

wagnerrp:

anyway, thats not at all what i was talking about

[00:11:02]

sphery:

mythtv's main problem is that ffmpeg doesn't handle the AC-3 normalization factor that they often use

[00:11:03]

beadle:

sorry

[00:11:04]

wagnerrp:

im talking about the silence between show and ad, and from ad to ad

[00:11:25]

wagnerrp:

it can basically be handled like the existing black screen detection in the commflagger

[00:11:29]

sphery:

so you can get a many-decibel increase when you switch from a show's AC-3 to commercials' non-AC-3 or commercials 2-channel (not 5.1-channel) AC-3

[00:12:31]

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[00:13:35]

mycosys:

does the current code rely much on watermark detection?

[00:14:38]

beadle:

you folks are blowing me away. I reallly appreciate your comments. I think I absorbed some of it.... tx

[00:18:44]

wagnerrp:

you might also want to check out commskip

[00:18:53]

wagnerrp:

its a windows program originally based off mythcommflag

[00:19:02]

wagnerrp:

but i think its been completely rewritten since

[00:21:54]

sphery:

mycosys: one of the methods is logo detection

[00:22:26]

beadle:

wagmerrp: linux. I have myth removecommercials and then I burn to DVD mostly. sometimes just watch from my main machine. sometimes save it. so for me it isn't skip so much as strip

[00:22:51]

wagnerrp:

no, im saying if youre looking into working on the commflagger

[00:22:55]

wagnerrp:

as a source for ideas

[00:23:12]

beadle:

ahhh yes

[00:23:13]

sphery:

beadle: for that, you should always edit to make sure you're not (permanently) chopping stuff that you shouldn't

[00:23:47]

sphery:

and, in truth, even if the flagger is way off, editing isn't much harder, now, than if it's close

[00:24:04]

sphery:

and in the future, editing will likely be just as easy whether it's way off or close

[00:24:08]

sphery:

(patch in progress)

[00:25:04]

wagnerrp:

oh? what do you have planned?

[00:25:38]

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[00:25:42]

** wagnerrp never trusted the 'burn to dvd' people **

[00:26:17]

wagnerrp:

ive made dvds before

[00:26:21]

wagnerrp:

its a lot of work

[00:26:31]

wagnerrp:

people willing to do that seem... off... to me

[00:26:34]

wagnerrp:

:)

[00:26:43]

beadle:

sphery: most of the time it's close enough. it's just entertainment after all.... some shows I care enough to make it exact so I use avidemux

[00:27:12]

sphery:

wagnerrp: instead of importing the flag list as a cut list, you'll see the flag list while you create your cut list

[00:27:21]

sphery:

and you'll just use it as another seek mark

[00:27:27]

sphery:

with or without cut marks there

[00:27:32]

wagnerrp:

ah

[00:27:41]

beadle:

wagnerrp: my son would agree with you lol

[00:27:46]

sphery:

(and the same patch should allow displaying flag lists in the playback OSD, too)

[00:28:45]

sphery:

wagnerrp: this is another case where, since it will allow importing the flag list as a cut list, users who aren't willing to see that there's a better way won't get the benefit

[00:28:54]

sphery:

i.e. they'll import and then have to move cuts

[00:28:56]

beadle:

I'm not sure that would help me. I helped modify that removecommercials script and for me it needs to be as automatic as possible.

[00:29:10]

sphery:

versus just seeking among flags and adding marks only where appropriate

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[00:29:37]

sphery:

can't wait for the "I think it's a huge step backwards" comment

[00:29:55]

sphery:

those are always fun and make all the effort worth the while

[00:30:55]

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[00:31:27]

wagnerrp:

beadle: basically, if edit mode is used properly, you can edit a standard 1hr show in about 2 minutes

[00:31:48]

sphery:

agreed

[00:32:12]

beadle:

agreed. but about 3 months ago or so I rarely had to edit them

[00:32:15]

sphery:

I find that even without seek-by-flag-list, it's actually easier to edit without importing the flag list as a cut list

[00:32:24]

sphery:

with seek-by-flag-list, it will be tons easier

[00:36:56]

beadle:

I *know* I'm not doing it the easiest or best way so pls don't take my comments as not wanting to learn. the recordings are disposable to me and my user story is to be able to watch them retaining that sense of surprise.

[00:37:13]

beadle:

if I've had to preview them to edit or to mark them that's not quite as good :)

[00:38:49]

sphery:

heh, I find that my short memory allows me to edit or otherwise flip through a show and still have that sense of surprise when I watch it

[00:39:18]

clever:

i sometimes completely forget what show i'm watching before the comercial block ends

[00:39:22]

sphery:

commercials, episode titles, and (especially) episode descriptions do more to ruin the surprise

[00:39:26]

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[00:39:32]

sphery:

(commercials for the upcoming episodes)

[00:39:33]

beadle:

lol ok, I need to add to my process to wait until alzheimer's kicks in... errr 3 days or so! :)

[00:39:48]

sphery:

heh, yeah, that's about as long as it takes for me

[00:39:54]

sphery:

sometimes less

[00:40:08]

wagnerrp:

beadle: at that point, it would be better to have your DVD burning software to set the commercial ends as chapters

[00:40:10]

sphery:

but I tend to be at least a season behind on all my viewing, anyway

[00:40:15]

clever:

either something is wrong or the show is boring

[00:40:17]

wagnerrp:

so when you hit a commercial, jump to the next chapter

[00:40:34]

clever:

i shouldnt be forgeting the show before the comercial ends

[00:40:51]

clever:

wagnerrp: can mytharchive do that?

[00:41:16]

wagnerrp:

i dont know

[00:42:07]

beadle:

there's probably a dd parm for that

[00:42:16]

beadle:

but I remain ignorant.

[00:42:21]

clever:

dd sounds too low level to be of use

[00:42:22]

wagnerrp:

dd?

[00:42:35]

wagnerrp:

dd doesnt understand DVD structures

[00:42:42]

wagnerrp:

it just does straight data duplication

[00:42:45]

beadle:

actually I prepare them with a script and use k3b to burn

[00:42:47]

clever:

yeah, youd need to poke at the data manualy

[00:43:03]

clever:

beadle: i had to do the same, k3b was the ONLY app that could burn

[00:43:09]

clever:

EVERYTHING else made coasters

[00:43:25]

clever:

but ive since put 4 hdd's in the case, so the dvd drive wont even fit on the bus

[00:43:49]

beadle:

yeah.... I *really* should send them a donation.

[00:44:28]

beadle:

wagnerrp: was just kidding about dd

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[00:51:36]

beadle:

wagnerrp: if the burning software did the trimming it would be harder to know what would fit on the dvd. as it was in the recent past when myth commflag worked better for me I basically just had to move 4.2 GB of recordings into a folder and launch the script. it rarely went over. k3b was at that time more forgiving about burning over size. in 10 mins from start to finish I had a dvd to put into the player, either in the main r

[00:51:36]

beadle:

oom or to take to my room...

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beadle:

hopefully that's less "off" ;)

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beadle:

thanks again! g'nite

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[01:51:03]

wagnerrp:

no castle tonight

[01:51:09]

wagnerrp:

screw you bachelor!

[01:53:56]

iamlindoro:

That's just what the Bachelor wants, of course

[01:54:58]

wagnerrp:

what, get taken for all hes worth by someone who only loves him for his money?

[01:55:05]

wagnerrp:

so next season, he can come back on again!

[01:55:16]

iamlindoro:

different screwed

[01:56:33]

wagnerrp:

did i just see tits on chuck?

[01:56:56]

wagnerrp:

no, just big moobs

[02:02:09]

iamlindoro:

First Atom hardware profile, I win

[02:02:18]

iamlindoro:

or rather, lose

[02:05:15]

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[02:09:31]

sphery:

great, now we'll have to targe that Atom + GMA platform for all future development

[02:09:39]

sphery:

target, that is

[02:10:41]

iamlindoro:

heh, have to

[02:13:06]

sphery:

better start removing threads from the code

[02:14:25]

markk:

sphery: don't joke – we need to. we're suffering from a serious case of thread bloat atm

[02:14:30]

wagnerrp:

WHY DOES MYTHTV HAVE 37 THREADS!?!?!???!!??

[02:15:25]

sphery:

markk: it was more a reference to the "make some threads optional so that people with less powerful systems can run without performance problems" discussion on list

[02:16:19]

sphery:

not the "clean up the mess of threads that do X and write the code to accomplish the same more elegantly" type of stuff

[02:16:52]

wagnerrp:

well with any luck, ill be removing one thread from most backends here in the near future

[02:17:04]

markk:

sphery: ok, missed that. but my point still stands. resource demands in the frontend have gone through the roof in recent times

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[02:19:23]

sphery:

markk: I need to get the courage/motivation to post the "drop animation rate to 30Hz" patch you mentioned and try to "walk it through approval" so I can push it and close http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9579

[02:19:35]

sphery:

I think that would help the frontend performance drastically

[02:20:20]

sphery:

and have a feeling that QTimer wouldn't hit the Qt tight-spin-loop code if we were using a lower rate/bigger sleeps

[02:21:41]

sphery:

funny thing is that patch--which changes all of 2 characters in the code--will likely take more time to push through than big patches that require a lot of development and testing

[02:22:02]

wagnerrp:

why is that?

[02:22:15]

sphery:

because I'll have to get agreement

[02:22:38]

sphery:

then answer questions when people start asking, "Why does my animation look so slow?"

[02:22:50]

HRearden:

Hello. I'm trying to determine if I can run mythbackend with a hostname other than the box's "hostname" for use in a clustering environment. Is this possible?

[02:22:54]

sphery:

and let themers know about the change

[02:22:56]

sphery:

and such

[02:23:13]

sphery:

HRearden: use a LocalHostName override in the mysql.txt or config.xml you're using

[02:23:17]

HRearden:

I've already got it working using virtualization under xen, but I'd rather run the master backend non-virtualized.

[02:23:34]

wagnerrp:

good thinking

[02:23:45]

HRearden:

SQL server is already virtualized. talking about hostname for the master backend.

[02:23:51]

sphery:

then specify any unique-within-the-MythTV-system identifier for the system

[02:24:01]

sphery:

yeah, that's for mythtv

[02:24:22]

wagnerrp:

what do you mean by 'clustering environment'?

[02:24:29]

HRearden:

pacemaker

[02:24:38]

HRearden:

and corosync.

[02:24:42]

wagnerrp:

when i think of a cluster, i think of the one in the back room at work

[02:24:42]

sphery:

HRearden: see comment in https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/ . . . s/config.xml

[02:24:58]

wagnerrp:

with hundreds of machines, using hundreds of independent hostnames and domain names

[02:25:19]

sphery:

I don't know that you want to run MythTV to control someone's heart-stimulation device...

[02:25:27]

sphery:

nor use it to run a nuclear reactor

[02:25:29]

sphery:

;)

[02:25:37]

markk:

sphery: I was thinking more in terms of number of threads, memory requirements etc. but the refresh rate piece definitely needs fixing

[02:25:43]

HRearden:

ha.

[02:26:12]

HRearden:

Looks like LocalHostName should do the trick – will give it a shot.

[02:26:15]

sphery:

markk: yeah, lots of stuff left to improve

[02:26:18]

wagnerrp:

so youre talking about HA clustering

[02:26:23]

HRearden:

Yes.

[02:27:15]

markk:

sphery: what most people haven't yet realised is that the main theme won't always be running at 70fps anyway. depends on the screen refresh rate (which may be changed when using xrandr support) and sync to vblank settings

[02:27:16]

wagnerrp:

better option would be to add some code to the backend for a 'soft reset'

[02:27:18]

HRearden:

I've already got it running. DRBD with pacemaker / corosync, OCFS2 and xen. Right now its running 2 slave backends in dom0 and the master as a domu under xen.

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[02:27:22]

markk:

could be as low as 24 fps

[02:27:48]

wagnerrp:

when the master goes down, let a slave bring up the scheduler and start operation as master

[02:27:53]

sphery:

markk: yeah... and speaking of which... some had mentioned just using 24 or 12 Hz animation rates...

[02:27:56]

wagnerrp:

and the rest of the machines shift to that as the master

[02:28:00]

sphery:

do you have a preference which we use?

[02:28:06]

sphery:

probably easiest to just change it once

[02:28:48]

HRearden:

right. Just bad performance with master under a domu – haven't been able to resolve that. Performance is acceptable as a dom0.

[02:29:30]

HRearden:

With these settings, would it be possible to run 2 instances of mythbackend , each pointing to a separate config file using different localhostnames, all on the same server?

[02:29:40]

wagnerrp:

correct

[02:29:49]

wagnerrp:

with different ports, or IPs

[02:30:03]

sphery:

soon, I hope to have mythbackend and mythjobqueue running as separate processes, then will start breaking out master backend stuff and recorder stuff

[02:30:04]

markk:

sphery: I would use MythDisplay to get the screen refresh rate and then chose something appropriate (likely 24,25 or 30)

[02:30:13]

wagnerrp:

actually, would that work?

[02:30:31]

wagnerrp:

i dont think any of the code explicitly limits itself to the IP you set in the database

[02:30:38]

HRearden:

they would have different IPs – the clusterng software would add additional IPs.

[02:30:43]

sphery:

markk: so basically go with screen refresh or 1/2 refresh or ... until it's 30 or less?

[02:31:00]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i think you would have to supply independent ports for each instance, even if they had separate IPs

[02:31:11]

sphery:

if we do that, animation speeds would differ on different systems (or even after playback if refresh gets changed)

[02:31:30]

sphery:

don't know if the themers would like that... ???

[02:31:32]

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[02:31:47]

HRearden:

OK. That wouldn't be a problem. Interesting. Perhaps I could avoid virtualization altogether then..

[02:32:16]

sphery:

right, we currently bind to all interfaces

[02:32:19]

sphery:

no code to limit it

[02:32:25]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, they would end up having to do everything at 600hz

[02:32:42]

sphery:

(don't know if that's what you were talking about--didn't read the whole conversation)

[02:32:43]

wagnerrp:

or have independent animations for different rates

[02:32:52]

wagnerrp:

or just end up with jerky animations

[02:33:31]

markk:

sphery: I'm slowly working on it from the other end – looking at changing the mythui side so that the 'animation' is time dependant, not refresh. which to be honest, is what it should have been in the first place

[02:33:43]

sphery:

agreed

[02:33:52]

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[02:34:28]

sphery:

and, fwiw, I really don't care if I miss the animation frame where the bouncing ball hits the ground--in truth, I don't see myself ever choosing a theme that would have an animation like that :)

[02:36:22]

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[02:38:44]

markk:

exactly – themes by and large need subtle effects. otherwise they're a distraction from the main event. and the opengl renderer now has the ability to scale and rotate on the fly, just needs someone to write and hook up that dynamic button list code

[02:39:15]

markk:

iamlindoro; ^^ I expect results – now :)

[02:40:47]

** iamlindoro cobbles together something in 120 seconds **

[02:40:48]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/cadence.png

[02:41:06]

wagnerrp:

hey, pngs arent animated

[02:41:21]

** wagnerrp feels tricked **

[02:42:25]

sphery:

maybe it's just one frame from the upcoming mng?

[02:42:49]

iamlindoro:

I'll release it one frame a day

[02:43:00]

wagnerrp:

if we can now do scaling on-the-fly.... can we do away with the pre-scaled image cache when using the opengl painter?

[02:43:07]

wagnerrp:

just store the images directly on disk

[02:43:09]

sphery:

or perhaps he's going to do the apng, if he's on the "mng isn't dead, but it never lived" side of the argument

[02:43:32]

wagnerrp:

mng always sounded like some form of disease

[02:44:28]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[02:44:36]

[R]:

i've never actually seen one

[02:44:50]

[R]:

its like bigfoot

[02:45:51]

sphery:

[R]: http://www.libmng.com/MNGsuite/basic_img.html

[02:46:13]

sphery:

(and if you visit there in your favorite browser, you can likely still say, "i've never actually seen one"

[02:46:47]

kormoc:

I'm surprised that chrome doesn't support it

[02:47:04]

[R]:

yup, its all banlk for me

[02:47:17]

sphery:

yeah, few browsers support MNG

[02:47:43]

wagnerrp:

seems firefox doesnt either

[02:47:43]

[R]:

not in FF either

[02:47:45]

[R]:

lol

[02:47:57]

sphery:

http://people.mozilla.com/~dolske/apng/demo.html , however

[02:48:10]

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[02:48:14]

sphery:

apng seems to be winning because it's simpler

[02:48:22]

kormoc:

mozilla removed support in 1.5

[02:48:23]

[R]:

chrome dosnt support that it seems

[02:48:38]

HRearden:

quick question re: prior topic on LocalHostName in config.xml, how do I point the mythbackend to the specific file?

[02:48:53]

HRearden:

(if I want to run 2 copies with 2 different config.xml's)

[02:48:55]

kormoc:

MYTHCONFDIR

[02:49:00]

kormoc:

env var

[02:49:08]

[R]:

you want to run 2 backends?

[02:49:15]

sphery:

kormoc: yeah, they went with APNG (even though back then it required a custom patch to libpng)

[02:49:27]

sphery:

was annoying that they switched before getting changes upstream

[02:50:36]

wagnerrp:

HRearden, kormoc: better to just set up separate users, or set HOME manually

[02:51:42]

sphery:

ah, wait, you /still/ have to patch libpng for apng support

[02:54:25]

HRearden:

Hmm. I run mythbackend out of init scripts now, so it runs as root....

[02:54:54]

[R]:

now theres an awful idea

[02:55:19]

sphery:

sudo or su – or ??? instead

[02:55:33]

HRearden:

right. ok.

[02:56:03]

kormoc:

I find the whole concept of HA mythbackend extremely amusing and pointless, but I'm not the one spending the time on it :)

[02:56:16]

[R]:

wtf...

[02:56:46]

HRearden:

I've rebuilt one-too-many backends, and just felt like consolidating a few of the multiple slaves that had grown up over time into a single cluster.

[02:56:51]

sphery:

yeah, I'm not really as enamored by the idea of non-master backends unilaterally deciding to promote themselves to master as some of the devs are

[02:57:06]

[R]:

sphery: its the windows model!

[02:57:21]

kormoc:

the whole point is slave backends can run without the master... So why promote when you don't need to?

[02:57:42]

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[02:57:47]

HRearden:

And that's not the model I'm using either — there will always be a master and the clustering software will control all of that.

[02:57:55]

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[02:57:58]

sphery:

I mean when the network glitches and your 3 remote backends decide "Master is dead. It's my turn to step up!" and all record the same high-priority shows, who cleans up the mess when the network unglitches?

[02:58:19]

sphery:

having something controlling it is a much better design

[02:58:34]

sphery:

but not the one that was mentioned last time I saw the idea come up in #mythtv

[02:59:13]

HRearden:

couldn't agree more — even getting a two node cluster to agree on fencing / quorom protocols / stonith , etc. is hard enough...

[02:59:23]

sphery:

that said, my A has been /very/ H with my simple 2-backend, no failover, no DB replication, no ... system

[02:59:35]

** sphery braces for the inevitable crash **

[02:59:39]

sphery:

(after tempting fate)

[03:00:11]

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[03:00:17]

kormoc:

sphery, meh, you have backups!

[03:00:35]

sphery:

heh, I only back up important data on my network

[03:00:53]

sphery:

actually, I do have DB backups, but they're all on the same disk as my DB

[03:01:02]

[R]:

backups shmackups

[03:02:00]

sphery:

(and my "important data" backups that I actually care a lot about are only 10MB... Maybe I should add the 100MB mythconverg backup to that list.)

[03:02:18]

clever:

sphery: do you use ext2/3?

[03:02:29]

sphery:

great, now kormoc just increased my backup requirements eleven-fold

[03:02:34]

sphery:

clever: ext3

[03:02:47]

clever:

sphery: you might want to run dumpe2fs and back that up als

[03:02:55]

kormoc:

oh noes! How would it ever fit?!?!

[03:02:58]

kormoc:

oh lord

[03:03:05]

clever:

basicaly, its a dump of all the metadata, storing it over the damaged FS will make it completely valid

[03:03:09]

sphery:

yeah, that's like >100 floppies

[03:03:22]

clever:

any files that havent moved since the backup will be readable, if they arent damaged also

[03:03:42]

clever:

you could just use a 2gig SD card for backups

[03:03:53]

sphery:

yeah, was joking about the floppies

[03:04:03]

sphery:

I'm saying 110MB is nothing these days

[03:04:13]

clever:

i remember using 20 or 30 floppies before to un-compress my win95 system drive

[03:04:14]

wagnerrp:

you could use a zip drive

[03:04:34]

sphery:

heh

[03:23:15]

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[03:49:43]

HRearden:

hrm. OK. I was running a virtualized mythbackend in xen on an ip address, say 10.1.1.30. Now I'm trying to take that outside of the virtualized environment and run using "LocalHostName" = "xenmyth" (which is 10.1.1.30)".

[03:49:57]

HRearden:

It can see the config, but it doesn't appear to become the master backend.

[03:52:30]

HRearden:

Not entirely true — the mythbackend process thinks it is the master, but nothing else can work on that IP address. Oh, BTW, outside of the virtualized environment I am now using a clustered IP address to get 10.1.1.30 onto the host – it's ACTUAL hostname and ip address would be something like "server1" and 10.1.1.40...

[03:52:45]

HRearden:

So I can't, for instance, get status now on 10.1.1.30:6544.

[03:54:19]

sphery:

HRearden: master backend is the backend whose IP address = MasterServerIP. If you want to change master backend, you must change the value of that setting.

[03:55:01]

sphery:

ah, wait, you said the backend knows it's the master (because its IP is the same)

[03:55:43]

wagnerrp:

what version of mythtv are you running?

[03:56:11]

wagnerrp:

erm... nevermind that

[03:56:15]

wagnerrp:

mythweb issue, not mythbackend

[03:56:50]

HRearden:

no, not mythweb..

[03:57:03]

HRearden:

was just testing the "status" port of the mythbackend.

[03:57:27]

HRearden:

Interestingly, it appears on the 10.1.1.40 "real" IP address, but not on the virtual one.

[03:57:33]

kormoc:

you'd need to restart the backend process to get it to rebind to new ip's if you're not using always up aliases

[03:57:58]

HRearden:

I restarted after creating the new IPs.

[03:59:02]

kormoc:

unless they were up, we wouldn't bind to them

[04:00:21]

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[04:01:35]

HRearden:

aw, !@#$#@%@# cluster started the IP address on the OTHER node.... !@#.

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[04:31:07]

wagnerrp:

loVolt: i would junk it, and buy a tuner with hardware encoding

[04:31:49]

loVolt:

not a challange then

[04:31:54]

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[04:32:06]

loVolt:

and I'm sucker for fun

[04:32:11]

wagnerrp:

not worth recording off of

[04:32:57]

loVolt:

wasn't planning on it

[04:33:05]

loVolt:

just simple watching

[04:33:11]

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[04:33:27]

wagnerrp:

well then you arent interested in mythtv, or any other pvr software for that matter

[04:33:34]

wagnerrp:

since they record everything

[04:33:39]

wagnerrp:

see tvtime

[04:33:43]

loVolt:

as a media center...none better

[04:33:59]

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[04:34:30]

loVolt:

interpitation I guess

[04:35:03]

wagnerrp:

basically, your card is what is called a 'framegrabber'

[04:35:22]

wagnerrp:

the tuner captures video, and exposes it as raw frames of video in a memory buffer

[04:35:33]

wagnerrp:

which mythtv, or any other recorder, then has to capture and encode in real time

[04:35:35]

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[04:35:47]

wagnerrp:

along with separately capturing the audio, encoding, and multiplexing

[04:36:04]

wagnerrp:

its a messy process, with a lot of possibility for problems

[04:36:06]

loVolt:

raw video is mpe2 and teh ndiida card will read it fine

[04:36:08]

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[04:36:21]

loVolt:

reduces cost if anything

[04:36:26]

wagnerrp:

then you dont have a WinTV-USB2

[04:36:31]

wagnerrp:

but rather a WinTV-PVR-USB2

[04:36:33]

loVolt:

I do

[04:36:38]

loVolt:

wintv-usb2-fm

[04:36:46]

loVolt:

couldn

[04:36:50]

wagnerrp:

the latter is a mpeg encoder, which does all of that in hardware, and outputs a nice mpeg2 stream

[04:37:01]

loVolt:

't find a pvr-usb2

[04:37:19]

wagnerrp:

if you have a WinTV-USB2, then you have a framegrabber

[04:37:28]

wagnerrp:

it is not outputting mpeg2, just raw frames

[04:37:34]

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[04:37:40]

wagnerrp:

and the nvidia card will not read it just fine, because there is nothing to read

[04:37:46]

loVolt:

this on is em28xx , just haing a bit of a hassle finding the minor number of the usbid to match up chipset

[04:38:23]

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[04:39:08]

wagnerrp:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Em28xx_devices

[04:39:22]

The_Thing:

I am having problems setting up my directories. When I point the directory to the videos folder on my external drive in the frontend, it does not list anything.

[04:39:31]

wagnerrp:

mythtv /can/ be used with that device, however mythtv /should not/ be used with that device

[04:39:35]

The_Thing:

Doing the same for my backend does not do anything either.

[04:39:46]

wagnerrp:

and youre going to find it hard looking for people to help you with it

[04:40:06]

wagnerrp:

since most of the people in this channel will have abandoned their framegrabbers for encoder cards and digital tuners years ago

[04:40:27]

wagnerrp:

The_Thing: this is mythvideo youre talking about?

[04:40:34]

loVolt:

I got that by the degraded docs

[04:41:22]

The_Thing:

yes

[04:41:46]

wagnerrp:

you added the folder where your content is, to the Videos storage group in mythtv-setup?

[04:42:15]

The_Thing:

yes

[04:42:41]

wagnerrp:

did you restart the backend for those settings to take?

[04:43:11]

The_Thing:

Um... probably not... how do I do that, just reboot?

[04:43:30]

wagnerrp:

by... restarting the mythbackend process

[04:45:20]

wagnerrp:

The_Thing: usually that is done by using the relevant init script

[04:46:00]

The_Thing:

Oh... well, I have no idea where that script would be, so... yeah. I just rebooted anyways.

[04:46:12]

The_Thing:

And, still nothing there

[04:46:22]

wagnerrp:

thats something you should really figure out if you intend to continue using linux

[04:46:25]

The_Thing:

Does it matter that the files are all in seperate folders?

[04:46:32]

wagnerrp:

its the equivalent of restarting services in windows

[04:46:44]

wagnerrp:

anyway, you are currently in 'media library -> watch videos'?

[04:46:47]

The_Thing:

yes

[04:46:52]

wagnerrp:

press 'm'

[04:47:03]

wagnerrp:

and then 'scan for content'

[04:47:03]

The_Thing:

scan for changes?

[04:47:22]

wagnerrp:

yeah, that one

[04:48:06]

The_Thing:

still nothing

[04:48:23]

wagnerrp:

what user are you running mythbackend as?

[04:48:59]

wagnerrp:

'ps aux | grep mythbackend', the user will be in the left most column

[04:49:47]

The_Thing:

mythtv

[04:50:04]

wagnerrp:

and what user are you logged into?

[04:50:29]

The_Thing:

until-it-sleeps

[04:50:51]

wagnerrp:

and your external disk was automatically mounted?

[04:50:58]

The_Thing:

yes

[04:51:31]

wagnerrp:

chances are whatever automatically did the mounting, locked it to the user currently logged into the desktop environment

[04:51:42]

wagnerrp:

which means, the only user that can access that drive is 'until-it-sleeps'

[04:52:00]

wagnerrp:

and your backend, running as the 'mythtv' user, cannot access it to read any content from it

[04:52:09]

The_Thing:

ah...

[04:53:25]

The_Thing:

Ok, so, how do I mount it as mythtv without logging out and whatnot?

[04:54:04]

The_Thing:

Sorry... I've not had much experience with Linux...

[04:54:15]

wagnerrp:

that would be something to ask your distro

[04:54:32]

loVolt:

I think gentoo and this annoying never setting up /dev/video will give me a hemmorage far sooner then teh cpatah device

[04:55:01]

wagnerrp:

i could tell you how to mount it manually, but i have no idea how to get your distro/desktopenvironment to not do it automatically

[04:55:18]

wagnerrp:

loVolt: scrap the tuner, get one that does hardware encoding

[04:55:30]

BLZbubba:

am i the only one with a schedule off by 1 hour since the time change?

[04:55:57]

BLZbubba:

do i need to restart the backend or something like that?

[04:57:19]

The_Thing:

Well, not much help in #ubuntu yet... just some trolls there at the moment... [22:55] <penos> im so horney

[04:58:36]

loVolt:

you bail to easily

[04:59:38]

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[05:00:59]

The_Thing:

Well... if I can find a large enough HDD, I could just copy the videos to the default storage directory itself, wouldn't I?

[05:01:19]

wagnerrp:

to what end?

[05:02:07]

The_Thing:

I mean, copying the files to /var/lib/mythtv/videos

[05:02:19]

wagnerrp:

right, what for?

[05:02:34]

The_Thing:

Then it would see the files straight away, wouldn't it?

[05:02:50]

wagnerrp:

no, because they are not recordings

[05:03:24]

wagnerrp:

the Videos storage group is the only one mythvideo reads from

[05:03:25]

The_Thing:

Well, after scanning for changes, it would see them, wouldn't it?

[05:03:54]

wagnerrp:

only if the backend had permission to do so

[05:04:02]

wagnerrp:

a look at the backend logs would probably confirm that

[05:05:31]

wagnerrp:

actually, mythtv-setup should have warned you that it did not have write access when you exited the program

[05:06:23]

The_Thing:

hmm, well the only thing it prompted me for was the mythfildatabase thing...

[05:10:07]

The_Thing:

I believe I've found the problem... # 2011-03–14 22:55:56.529 MythVideo::ScanVideoDirectory Scanning Group (myth://Videos@untilitsleeps/media/Freeagent drive/Multimedia/TV shows/)

[05:10:24]

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[05:11:54]

The_Thing:

untilitsleeps/media/Freeagent drive/... should be /media/Freeagent drive/... unless I'm not reading it correctly

[05:15:50]

** The_Thing drops a pin **

[05:17:20]

mianos:

I had some blocky stuff on some large BDrips I made myself with handbrake

[05:17:21]

wagnerrp:

thats <storage group>@<host>/<path>

[05:17:28]

mianos:

vdpaubuffersize=32 fixed it up

[05:17:34]

mianos:

perfect now

[05:17:39]

wagnerrp:

mianos: then keep the source m2ts files

[05:18:00]

The_Thing:

ah

[05:18:09]

mianos:

I reduced the size by 1/4

[05:18:21]

mianos:

all good now

[05:18:35]

wagnerrp:

all a blocky mess now

[05:18:37]

mianos:

just saying, the vdpaubuffersize actualyl works

[05:18:55]

The_Thing:

So I got it correct...

[05:19:55]

wagnerrp:

The_Thing: if your system automatically mounts windows-based filesystems, such as fat32 or ntfs, the user accounts will not be compatible with linux

[05:20:08]

wagnerrp:

so the default course of action will be to simply lock it to a single user

[05:20:15]

wagnerrp:

im almost certain that is what is going on here

[05:20:46]

The_Thing:

"windows-based"... as it so happens, the external that I'm using is formatted as NTFS

[05:21:36]

The_Thing:

So I simply reformat as ext4? (I have all of the data backed up to a second external drive, so that shouldn't be a problem

[05:21:38]

The_Thing:

)

[05:22:26]

wagnerrp:

do you intend to keep the drive mobile?

[05:22:34]

wagnerrp:

or is it going to remain permanently attached?

[05:23:04]

loVolt:

ahhh ta friken da

[05:23:07]

loVolt:

gnight

[05:23:09]

loVolt:

thx

[05:23:13]

The_Thing:

It's probably going to remain permanently attatched... until I can get my hands on a SATA RAID card, then I'll just take it out of the enclosure and mount it internally...

[05:23:18]

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[05:23:35]

wagnerrp:

yeah, thats what i was going to suggest

[05:23:45]

wagnerrp:

dont know why you would need a raid card though

[05:23:57]

wagnerrp:

even if youre out of slots, just get a normal controller card, much cheaper

[05:23:57]

The_Thing:

My motherboard is an older one, no SATA ports

[05:24:06]

The_Thing:

true

[05:24:29]

wagnerrp:

basically, there are no raid cards worth buying for under $300

[05:26:50]

The_Thing:

hmm... well, if my teacher lets me have it, we have a server which has a SATA card that's not being used... I could take that out and put it in my computer, assuming it will work... It's a PCI-X card, which I've read is backwards compatible with conventional PCI slots, but I won't know for certain until I try...

[05:27:12]

wagnerrp:

they usually are

[05:27:21]

wagnerrp:

ive got a PCIX network card on my PCI server

[05:27:42]

The_Thing:

heh...

[05:28:20]

The_Thing:

Well, the last time I tried something similar, putting a PCI wirless card into a PCI-X slot, Ubuntu froze up at the login screen, and Windows would bluescreen

[05:30:48]

clever:

sounds more like a driver issue

[05:31:04]

clever:

if it wasnt compatible, then id expect it to fail well before then

[05:31:13]

clever:

or get completely ignored

[05:31:15]

wagnerrp:

yeah, as you log in, NetworkManager kicks in and triggers a fault

[05:31:30]

wagnerrp:

why windows would have the same issue though..

[05:31:33]

clever:

that would explain it perfectly

[05:31:47]

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[05:31:48]

clever:

wagnerrp: the ethernet card in my laptop is toast, it doesnt even register on lspci

[05:31:56]

clever:

wagnerrp: under windows, it bluescreens during bootup

[05:32:12]

clever:

thats why windows crashes earlyer:P

[05:32:16]

The_Thing:

lol

[05:32:57]

clever:

i should try safemode just to see if i can bypass it for fun

[05:33:31]

wagnerrp:

i mean the fact that they both crash, would seem to indicate its more of a hardware problem

[05:33:48]

wagnerrp:

The_Thing: would your num/scrolllock lights blink?

[05:34:19]

The_Thing:

Um... I forget, it was several months ago that I tried it...

[05:34:33]

clever:

for those types of errors, i would load it into text mode

[05:34:35]

wagnerrp:

thats the last act of a dying linux kernel

[05:34:45]

clever:

turn dmesg to max (the passive printint to console) and then kil it

[05:34:47]

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[05:34:57]

clever:

it should spew all the goodies you need to track it down

[05:36:22]

clever:

and if it doesnt print anything, you can try alt+printscreen+w or alt+printscreen+t

[05:36:36]

clever:

though both are best used from a serial console, too much to fit on-screen

[05:36:41]

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[05:37:06]

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[05:38:21]

Kernel:

Hello all. I got a recording that I'm trying to run a transcode job on....its been stuck at 27% for about 15 mins now and I'm unable to cancel the job....if I hit stop or pause it does nothing

[05:38:30]

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[05:38:56]

kormoc:

Kernel, is it causing you to panic?

[05:38:59]

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[05:39:00]

clever:

lol

[05:39:04]

The_Thing:

9.9

[05:39:06]

** Kernel panics **

[05:39:12]

Kernel:

;)

[05:39:31]

kormoc:

Kernel, I'd check ps and see if the process is actually running. Likely it's not

[05:39:40]

Kernel:

Le me see

[05:39:51]

Kernel:

..forgive me I'm on my cellphone atm

[05:40:17]

wagnerrp:

'pause', 'stop', and the like dont actually do anything

[05:40:22]

wagnerrp:

they just set a flag in the database

[05:40:30]

wagnerrp:

that the job itself is supposed to look for

[05:40:34]

wagnerrp:

and if spotted, terminate

[05:40:35]

Kernel:

I see mythtranscode is running

[05:40:43]

Kernel:

Actually 2 instances of iit

[05:40:52]

wagnerrp:

if the job has deadlocked, or otherwise doesnt read that, it wont do anything

[05:40:58]

Kernel:

Ah

[05:41:11]

Kernel:

Well. I do see mythttranscode

[05:42:12]

Kernel:

ythtv 3365 0.0 0.0 4096 576 ? SN 00:23 0:00 sh -c /usr/bin/mythtranscode -j 1548 -V 3 -p autodetectythtv 3366 4.2 1.9 420540 73484 ? DNl 00:23 3:20 /usr/bin/mythtranscode -j 1548 -V 3 -p autodetect

[05:42:26]

Kernel:

Hehe that didn't paste all that well

[05:42:29]

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[05:42:46]

Kernel:

Seems its only running mythtranscode once

[05:43:27]

Kernel:

Maybe I should try to restart the backend?

[05:43:40]

wagnerrp:

nope, wont do a thing

[05:43:47]

Kernel:

Hmmm

[05:44:10]

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[05:44:18]

Kernel:

Nothing is spiking the cpu/ram

[05:44:43]

Kernel:

I see mythtranscode running in top...but only using like 2–5% cpu

[05:45:14]

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[05:45:36]

wagnerrp:

its dead jim, just kill it

[05:45:52]

Kernel:

Just use kill to kill the pid?

[05:46:22]

wagnerrp:

aye

[05:46:25]

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[05:46:36]

Kernel:

K

[05:48:00]

Kernel:

Wish I could do pipes on this phone

[05:48:10]

Kernel:

Would make my life so much easier

[05:48:33]

wagnerrp:

how so?

[05:49:48]

Kernel:

Small screen size....scrolling is harder then like "ps aux <pipe> search term"

[05:49:57]

Kernel:

Err

[05:50:02]

Kernel:

Small screen size....scrolling is harder then like "ps aux <pipe> grep search term"

[05:50:05]

wagnerrp:

you cant just 'kill 3366'?

[05:50:11]

Kernel:

I did

[05:50:19]

Kernel:

I was just saying in general

[05:50:42]

Kernel:

As I had to re type ps aux....and then scroll up

[05:51:38]

kormoc:

killall mythtranscode, kill `pidof mythtranscode`...

[05:51:49]

Kernel:

Are there any android apps endorsed by the devs?....I see mythdroid was mentiond on the ml

[05:51:57]

Kernel:

And few in the market

[05:52:12]

kormoc:

nope

[05:53:27]

Kernel:

K I didn't think so

[06:02:38]

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[06:04:05]

The_Thing:

wagnerrp: So, I just have to reformat my external as ext4, and that should fix the problem?

[06:05:13]

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[06:06:00]

wagnerrp:

or, you unmount it, and mount it manually with proper permissions

[06:06:50]

The_Thing:

Would I have to do that each time I boot up the computer?

[06:07:14]

wagnerrp:

im sure someone who knows your distro could find a better way

[06:07:53]

The_Thing:

But reformatting would just solve that permanently?

[06:09:59]

wagnerrp:

if you intend to leave it on linux permanently, it should be reformatted

[06:10:52]

wagnerrp:

sphery: having focus issues? or did you get a new pet?

[06:12:24]

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[06:14:51]

sphery:

heh, was trying to clear the window (/scrollback clear), but had an accidental space in the line

[06:15:07]

sphery:

the shortcut for it is /sb c

[06:15:18]

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[06:17:13]

wagnerrp:

do mysql queries actually have to be terminated with a semicolon when sending them through the qt bindings?

[06:18:09]

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[06:18:41]

wagnerrp:

just wondering, because it makes no difference in python

[06:18:48]

wagnerrp:

wondering if thats a mysql thing

[06:18:56]

wagnerrp:

or specifically a mysql command line application thing

[06:20:14]

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[06:21:57]

sphery:

they don't

[06:22:10]

sphery:

IIRC, I've forgotten a couple of times

[06:23:09]

sphery:

like at https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/ . . . ck.cpp#L5516

[06:23:22]

kormoc:

it's a thing for anything that allows multiple queries in one command

[06:24:00]

sphery:

and L5558

[06:24:11]

sphery:

seems I'm about 50/50

[06:24:22]

sphery:

consistency... consistently about 50/50

[06:32:23]

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[06:32:30]

wagnerrp:

how would i pull an autoincrement id out of a query after an insert?

[06:32:42]

[R]:

theres a special query you can do after the fact

[06:33:16]

[R]:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/inform . . . st-insert-id

[06:33:18]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but the mysql server will actually provide it in response to the client

[06:33:23]

wagnerrp:

if the client is set up to handle it

[06:33:40]

wagnerrp:

i was wondering if the qt bindings had something in there to automatically provide that

[06:34:24]

wagnerrp:

for example, the MySQLdb module for python would automatically populate some value

[06:34:30]

wagnerrp:

but the oursql module did not

[06:34:45]

wagnerrp:

so i had to rewrite a chunk of code to manually call that when migrating to the new module

[06:35:08]

[R]:

oh

[06:35:11]

wagnerrp:

lastrowid i think

[06:35:20]

clever:

i know php has such a function

[06:35:54]

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[06:37:02]

clever:

wagnerrp: QVariant QSqlQuery::lastInsertId () const

[06:38:34]

wagnerrp:

that looks like it would do it, thanks

[06:38:46]

** clever goes back to house **

[06:42:04]

sphery:

wagnerrp: it's not guaranteed to be correct, IIRC (due to races)

[06:42:24]

wagnerrp:

so i should still call manually?

[06:43:04]

sphery:

I think the same problem exists for that

[06:43:47]

wagnerrp:

so i should keep trying until i get a value i like?

[06:44:11]

sphery:

what do you need it for

[06:44:25]

wagnerrp:

adding a job to the queue

[06:44:30]

sphery:

seems mysql says last_insert_id (in C API is per-connection and should be race-safe)

[06:44:59]

wagnerrp:

i need to pull the newly inserted data back out

[06:45:06]

sphery:

I think danielk was talking about doing it by inserting, then querying for the data you just insert to get the ID

[06:45:08]

wagnerrp:

so i can pass it back to the client over mythproto

[06:45:23]

clever:

and it feels like mysql will reply to the query with the insert-id, which qt stores inside the very QSqlQuery that caused it

[06:45:37]

wagnerrp:

technically, in this case i can always just generate my own inserttime/statustime

[06:45:40]

clever:

i'm guessing the insertid is stored per QSqlQuery, once it gets to qt

[06:46:34]

clever:

hmmm

[06:46:36]

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[06:51:18]

sphery:

wagnerrp: have logs for 2009-09–11 for #mythtv ? That + http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/396823#396823

[06:51:26]

sphery:

(I have logs if you want to see them)

[06:51:55]

sphery:

sounds like we mayhave lastinsertid code in there, now, so just do what it does :)

[06:51:56]

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[06:52:10]

clever:

wagnerrp: once i get this unpacked, i can get you a clear answer

[06:52:43]

sphery:

clever: it's per-connection

[06:53:24]

clever:

sphery: server side it is, but what does QT do when it gets the id in the actual INSERT reply?

[06:53:52]

clever:

QSqlQuery::lastInsertId() hints that it might be stored within the QSqlQuery, not the connectin object

[06:53:56]

wagnerrp:

how does lastInsertId() even work before youve inserted a new row?

[06:54:13]

clever:

wagnerrp: QSqlQuery::exec() then QSqlQuery::lastInsertId()

[06:55:00]

sphery:

clever: in Qt the QSqlQuery is, for all intents and purposes, the connection

[06:55:38]

sphery:

wagnerrp: see the ugly hack in libs/libmyth/settings.cpp around line 973

[06:56:43]

sphery:

but note that there are uses of lastInsertId() in settings.cpp (old, "legacy" settings), recordingrule.cpp, and disecq.cpp

[06:56:53]

sphery:

so adding another probably isn't a problem

[06:57:11]

sphery:

might want to read danielk's post, though, so that you're prepared to argue your case if he comments :)

[06:57:32]

wagnerrp:

well i know ive used it for over a year in python without troubles

[06:57:39]

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[06:57:41]

clever:

looking at the qt source, it uses either mysql_stmt_insert_id or mysql_insert_id, at the time its called

[06:57:46]

wagnerrp:

but im sure my few hundred inserts over that time dont compare to mythtv's load

[06:57:51]

clever:

so it doesnt cache it after the query exec's

[06:58:13]

sphery:

yeah, it's likely the hack in the legacy settings code was only required because we used to support MySQL v3.garbage

[06:58:15]

clever:

depending on how mysql_stmt_insert_id/mysql_insert_id work, it may change if you run a 2nd query, so sphery is mostly right

[06:58:55]

wagnerrp:

i could lock the table to prevent such access

[06:59:14]

wagnerrp:

s/the table/writes to the table in the job scheduler/

[06:59:18]

clever:

it looks like its just per-connection, so locking wont be needed

[06:59:23]

sphery:

I vote against application-directed/-applied DB locks

[06:59:23]

sphery:

:)

[06:59:46]

sphery:

wagnerrp: if it's in use in recordingrule.cpp, it's likely safe enough to just use

[06:59:49]

wagnerrp:

and then just blindly assume no one else other than the job scheduler is going to be accessing the table at that time

[07:00:01]

sphery:

after all, every user should be using recording rules :)

[07:00:09]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[07:00:14]

sphery:

I say don't do any locking

[07:00:26]

wagnerrp:

no, im saying internal mutex

[07:00:42]

sphery:

I /think/ since you'll check out a QSqlQuery (wrapped in an MSqlQuery) and use it for the insert and the lastInsertId(), you'll be good

[07:01:02]

sphery:

ah, I see

[07:01:07]

sphery:

I don't think you'll need it

[07:01:18]

wagnerrp:

since one of the key features of this design is that no one touches the jobqueue database

[07:01:54]

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[07:02:02]

wagnerrp:

should make things easier on you, should you eventually decide to go through with the embedded db

[07:02:02]

sphery:

anyway, the recordingrule.cpp usage is the one that spurred discussion on http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/396823#396823 , against which no changes were made

[07:02:04]

clever:

sphery, wagnerrp: http://privatepaste.com/109b6711af

[07:02:08]

sphery:

so it seems we've decided it's safe enough

[07:03:03]

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[07:06:34]

sphery:

wagnerrp: the other option is to just insert the data then query for that specific data. assuming you have data that covers a unique key, you'd be guaranteed to get back the row you just inserted

[07:07:02]

wagnerrp:

well thats the problem, i wont have that until you provide it for me

[07:07:15]

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[07:07:24]

wagnerrp:

(waiting on fileid)

[07:07:34]

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[07:07:39]

wagnerrp:

of course even then, ill likely rework all this stuff so that it doesnt need to be unique

[07:07:51]

wagnerrp:

to allow a history, and to allow jobs that do not run against one particular file

[07:09:05]

sphery:

it's jobqueue table?

[07:09:15]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[07:09:28]

wagnerrp:

so right now, unique would be chanid/starttime/type

[07:09:35]

sphery:

if so, id is one unique key and the other is chanid, starttime, type, inserttime (assuming you're not modifying table)

[07:10:04]

sphery:

and if you don't know inserttime (because you're using NOW(), for example?), you couldn't do that approach

[07:11:19]

wagnerrp:

well as mentioned, the database stuff is all going to get get re-written at some later stage

[07:11:29]

wagnerrp:

this is just interim code to allow the first stage to work

[07:11:48]

wagnerrp:

which is, break out the jobqueue from mythbackend, and get a scheduler running

[07:12:15]

sphery:

clever: looking at that code, I think the race is possible, but only in a very small range of circumstances. With Qt 4.5+, Qt-MySQL always uses prepared queries (even if you don't tell it to), and then if the query fails it re-submits it as a non-prepared query (to deal with those queries that aren't allowed as prepared queries)

[07:12:47]

clever:

sphery: what could it race with though?

[07:12:57]

sphery:

clever: so it's very unlikely that we'll ever hit the non-prepared-query code, meaning we'd use the per-statement value, not the per-driver value

[07:12:59]

clever:

aslong as the sql connection isnt re-used, it should be fine

[07:13:12]

sphery:

yeah

[07:13:28]

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[07:13:33]

sphery:

so as long as we have the per-statement value, it's fine since we have separate QSqlQuery objects

[07:14:13]

clever:

just call lastInsertId directly after running the query, and you should be fine

[07:14:15]

sphery:

and for insert queries, in general, I don't see why it wouldn't be able to use prepared queries, so ...

[07:14:30]

sphery:

yeah

[07:14:33]

clever:

no way for anything to race

[07:14:48]

sphery:

unless it used the per-driver value

[07:15:06]

sphery:

which it shouldn't ever hit in our code since we require MySQL 5.0.15+

[07:15:13]

sphery:

and Qt 4.5+

[07:15:26]

sphery:

but if you used 4.4, it could

[07:15:27]

clever:

mysql_insert_id(d->driver->d->mysql); ?

[07:15:37]

sphery:

or if you used MySQL 4.0, it could

[07:15:56]

sphery:

yeah, isn't that using a per-driver value

[07:15:59]

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[07:16:07]

clever:

let me see if i can find the docs on it

[07:16:10]

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[07:16:21]

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[07:16:33]

clever:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/mysql-insert-id.html

[07:16:40]

clever:

it needs a MYSQL *

[07:16:55]

clever:

although i have no idea if thats a connection or what

[07:17:08]

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[07:17:21]

kormoc:

it's a session call, so it'd be a connection pointer

[07:17:24]

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[07:18:04]

clever:

it looks like MYSQL* is a connection object

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v wagnerrp

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[07:19:42]

sphery:

beautiful... mysql docs search is dead because of a database failure

[07:19:50]

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[07:20:01]

clever:

sphery: so it either gets the id tied to d->stmt (may be per-conn or per-statement), or it gets the id tied to the connection

[07:20:04]

kormoc:

behold the stability of Oracle

[07:20:24]

sphery:

this is why they made Google

[07:20:25]

clever:

so either way, its garanteed to atleast be per-conn

[07:20:38]

wagnerrp:

http://bash.org/?939164

[07:20:47]

clever:

ask QT for the value before running any other query and youll be fine

[07:20:51]

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[07:20:53]

sphery:

wagnerrp: pending moderation?

[07:21:02]

wagnerrp:

yeah, thats your comment just above

[07:21:18]

sphery:

heh

[07:22:04]

sphery:

kormoc: was just wondering the difference between http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/mysql-insert-id.html and http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/mysql-stmt-insert-id.html ... seems the latter is just a convenience function for the former?

[07:22:48]

clever:

only way to get a solid answer is to check mysql source next

[07:22:55]

kormoc:

sphery, yes

[07:22:55]

sphery:

yeah, not worth it

[07:23:14]

clever:

lets just say both are per-conn and play it safe

[07:23:27]

clever:

you dont know which way qt is going 100% of the time anyways

[07:24:09]

sphery:

since I don't see any way with Qt 4.5+ and MySQL 5.0.15+ (our min requirements) you could ever hit the mysql_insert_id() and mysql_stmt_insert_id() sounds like it's per-statement/per-QSqlQuery

[07:26:18]

justinh:

uh oh. there goes my day. thanks for reminding me bash.org exists

[07:26:33]

clever:

lol

[07:26:34]

sphery:

heh, he wasted my evening a few days ago

[07:26:49]

sphery:

fortunately, I'm too tired, now, to read them

[07:26:50]

clever:

#mythtv-users already spun thru it a few days ago, i'm good for another month

[07:26:51]

sphery:

time for bed

[07:26:53]

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[07:27:03]

clever:

already in bed!

[07:27:33]

clever:

sphery: goodnight

[07:27:53]

** justinh wonders if his sister's boyfriend is still alive after the weekend. they came around to our house on Saturday & he called my sister his ex wife's name by mistake **

[07:28:00]

wagnerrp:

http://bash.org/?926627

[07:28:52]

clever:

wagnerrp: saw it on my last bash.org binge, about 3 days ago

[07:29:41]

justinh:

http://bash.org/?924578

[07:29:42]

clever:

i think i read the top 100 completely, plus one or 2 pages of random

[07:30:01]

clever:

yep, seen that one too

[07:30:08]

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[07:30:39]

clever:

do i have a problem if i memorize half of bash.org?

[07:30:49]

justinh:

depends

[07:31:03]

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[07:33:09]

clever:

its official, house is insane, again

[07:34:32]

justinh:

my all-time favourite bash quote is the one about a picture painting a thousand words, then they post an emoticon & are kicked for flooding

[07:35:37]

justinh:

if the 'binary' joke is meant to be one only geeks get, the emoticon causing a flood one must be the nerd equivalent

[07:36:28]

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[07:39:52]

kormoc:

clever, he's not insane. He just left his parent's basement years ago

[07:40:06]

clever:

kormoc: did you see tonights ep?

[07:40:11]

kormoc:

yes

[07:40:34]

clever:

and you still think he is sane?

[07:40:47]

kormoc:

yes

[07:41:18]

kormoc:

There's nothing he did that doesn't happen at least once a night in vegas

[07:42:27]

clever:

even the cannonball?

[07:42:49]

kormoc:

yes

[07:43:12]

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[07:44:05]

clever:

and the arrow thru the chest?

[07:44:28]

kormoc:

something similar, yes

[07:44:33]

Gumby:

hi all. with cross source EIT being removed, is there a new way to get EIT data from one satellite to be used by another? Basically, my long term data is on one satellite while some of the channels are on another satellite

[07:45:12]

kormoc:

clever, it's all typical college age antics. nothing more

[07:45:37]

justinh:

Gumby: then you'll be left with using an external grabber

[07:45:39]

clever:

except its out of his age bracket :P

[07:45:50]

justinh:

i.e. eit2xmltv or whatever it's called

[07:45:53]

kormoc:

doesn't mean he's insane for indulging

[07:45:56]

Gumby:

justinh: ah, too bad. do you know why that feature was removed?

[07:46:21]

justinh:

probably because of its very limited appeal

[07:46:36]

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[07:46:36]

Gumby:

hehe, of course

[07:47:00]

justinh:

and more likely nobody being responsible for maintaining it having a use for it – or indeed being able to use it

[07:48:05]

Gumby:

trying to find that eit2xmltv you mentioned

[07:48:16]

wagnerrp:

you think bogomips would be a decent measurement for scaling one system against another, for purposes of job scheduling?

[07:48:20]

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[07:48:56]

wagnerrp:

i.e. if a job claims to be processor intensive, prefer the more powerful system, or even wait for it over significantly lesser ones

[07:50:10]

** wagnerrp goes back to bed **

[07:50:51]

Gumby:

I ate a bogomip once. It didnt taste very good

[07:55:59]

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[07:56:17]

somethinginteres:

I've got a Compro DVB T300. Live TV doesn'

[07:56:36]

somethinginteres:

doesn't channel lock on some channels but recording them is no problem.. any ideas?

[07:56:55]

justinh:

live tv IS a recording of those channels

[08:02:57]

somethinginteres:

justinh: yeah that's what I thought which is why it seemed strange I'm just getting "TLMs Partial Lock" but any scheduled recording for affected channels goes off without a problem

[08:03:34]

justinh:

maybe you've got 'quick tuning' enabled or something. I don't use livetv often enough to know the true differences between recordings & live tv

[08:03:43]

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[08:05:52]

somethinginteres:

justinh: hmm will look into it. Thanks

[08:06:13]

justinh:

there are maybe a couple of setting which differentiate live tv from other recordings

[08:06:24]

justinh:

*settings

[08:11:14]

somethinginteres:

justinh: right.

[08:12:56]

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[08:13:14]

justinh:

gah. had a couple of failed recordings last night. One of them was even deemed a 'recorder failure' in the programme's recording status. Hope Freeview haven't messed things up yet again with one of their infamous reshuffles

[08:14:11]

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[08:15:55]

justinh:

somethinginteres: yeah in 'Input connections' there's a 'use quick tuning' selector. its default is 'live tv only' I think

[08:16:17]

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[08:16:42]

somethinginteres:

justinh: OK let me see if I can find that

[08:17:10]

somethinginteres:

justinh: right mine's set to "Never"

[08:17:21]

somethinginteres:

justinh: that is, it was and is set to never

[08:19:14]

somethinginteres:

justinh: so I set it to "Live TV Only" just to see what would happen and Live TV now works fine...

[08:19:34]

justinh:

heh

[08:20:03]

justinh:

could be that your TV provider has changed things around, as they have a nasty habit of doing – and maybe you need to rescan

[08:22:28]

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[08:23:05]

justinh:

argghhh! Fiver has been renamed to Five*

[08:23:11]

justinh:

among other changes

[08:23:45]

justinh:

and Sky Three has been renamed 'Pick TV'

[08:23:53]

justinh:

FGS why can't they just LEAVE IT ALONE?

[08:24:11]

justinh:

it's a PITA having to rescan

[08:27:04]

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[08:27:19]

somethinginteres:

justinh: hmm

[08:28:41]

somethinginteres:

justinh: is there a way to do a scan in such a way as to update the info that needs to be changed but preserve the channel list/numbers? I ask b/c last time I had to rescan I had to go through and remove channel dupes but I in the 2nd instance I might inadvertently remove the dupe on Channel X instead of Y and then I need to reconfig my EPG grabber with myth to match up again

[08:28:59]

justinh:

I don't know

[08:29:19]

justinh:

in theory the scanner should simply pick up that stuff has moved slightly

[08:29:55]

justinh:

but IMHO it's pretty incomprehensible

[08:30:34]

somethinginteres:

justinh: what is?

[08:30:55]

justinh:

the output of the scanner when it finds 'duplicates' etc

[08:32:00]

justinh:

I find it easier just to get rid of everything & redo it

[08:32:05]

justinh:

certainly less confusing

[08:32:32]

justinh:

bottom line is.. we shouldn't *have* to rescan as often

[08:32:59]

justinh:

I'm not saying mythtv should just pick up on changes transparently.. it'd be altogether better if broadcasters stopped messing around

[08:33:44]

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[08:34:27]

somethinginteres:

justinh: yeah for sure

[08:34:52]

somethinginteres:

justinh: Aus Free to Air seems to love changing this very often for no reason

[08:35:10]

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[08:35:24]

somethinginteres:

justinh: heck it took us so long to EIT data

[08:36:42]

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[08:37:15]

justinh:

how a rescan ends up with mythtv very much depends on how the broadcaster reshuffled stuff

[08:37:57]

justinh:

every time I have to rescan I ask in here what the messages mean – i.e. what duplicates mean etc.. and every time I come to do it again I've forgotten

[08:40:38]

somethinginteres:

justinh: yeah yeah, Usually for me it's Channel X that is given a channel number and the same channel name just given no number

[08:40:52]

somethinginteres:

justinh: hard to know what it means as you say

[08:41:19]

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[08:41:45]

justinh:

it's different in 0.24 anyway I think, and I'm still on 0.23

[08:42:46]

justinh:

IMHO it'd be better if the scanner showed you a before & after view, but that's something which'd be better suited to being in a webpage – not on a 10 foot UI

[08:43:35]

somethinginteres:

justinh: I'm running 0.24 myself. Oh yeah, that'd definitely be handy

[08:43:40]

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[08:44:32]

justinh:

IIRC when the scanner finds a 'duplicate' I think it means that it got a channel with the same serviceid as an existing channel

[08:44:35]

somethinginteres:

justinh: maybe a feature request can be submitted though I'm not sure if trac handles that sort of stuff or just bugs

[08:45:08]

justinh:

nah. what would you say anyway? Just putting "make the scanner better" isn't gonna win anybody any sympathy

[08:46:06]

justinh:

FRWPs are closed unceremoniously :-)

[08:46:28]

justinh:

(Feature Request Without a Patch)

[08:46:41]

justinh:

a strategy I very much agree with :-)

[08:47:46]

justinh:

the underlying issue is that the scanner has to deal with a lot of different workarounds for different countries etc. The problem is that the DVB 'standard' is anything but, in reality

[08:49:07]

somethinginteres:

justinh: understandable. It'd need to be an in-depth feature blueprint indicating a way that it might be pro grammatically achieved (that is, a before and after view)

[08:49:10]

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[08:49:41]

somethinginteres:

justinh: but yeah if it usually requires a patch before submission to stay open that's not really possible :)

[08:49:53]

justinh:

and besides, for a before & after view to work the user would need to have an understanding of how digital TV works

[08:50:17]

justinh:

the *ideal* is that nobody should have to know that stuff

[08:51:09]

somethinginteres:

justinh: indeed. Well Mythtv can only get better over time so I look forward to that. My experience with this new version has been better than the previous in terms of things just working so that's awesome

[08:51:15]

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[08:51:53]

justinh:

even with the slightly confusing messages about dupes etc it's still better than absolutely always having to delete everything before rescanning for reliable results

[08:52:29]

justinh:

I'm doing a rescan now

[08:52:44]

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[08:52:52]

justinh:

'found 13 off-air channels'. it'd help if I could see what they are right now

[08:54:21]

somethinginteres:

justinh: yep :)

[08:55:31]

justinh:

I took the safe option of setting them to hidden

[08:56:14]

somethinginteres:

justinh: good move

[08:56:26]

justinh:

Aww.... WHAT?!

[08:56:50]

justinh:

doh.. I forgot to say TV+Radio

[08:59:57]

somethinginteres:

got to have beats

[09:00:44]

justinh:

hmm that wasn't too bad

[09:00:54]

justinh:

'old' means channels you've already got, it seems

[09:01:02]

justinh:

'new' means channels you ain't already got

[09:01:07]

justinh:

duh, all logical

[09:01:40]

justinh:

restart the backend...

[09:03:08]

justinh:

heh that was quite painless

[09:04:01]

Gumby:

any SQL gurus in here that could lend a quick hand?

[09:04:48]

Gumby:

I know the following query is incorrect, but I think it shows what I am trying to do at least. select channum,callsign,mplexid from channel where callsign like '%(select callsign from channel where chanid = '2212')%';

[09:05:09]

Gumby:

does anyone know the proper way to do something like this?

[09:05:23]

justinh:

you need a JOIN

[09:06:34]

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[09:07:11]

justinh:

but why wouldn't you do a SELECT channum,callsign,mplexid FROM channel WHERE chanid='2212'; ?

[09:07:12]

** Gumby googles **

[09:07:47]

justinh:

oh I see. you're trying to find slightly differently named duplicates?

[09:07:54]

Gumby:

correct

[09:08:15]

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[09:09:55]

Gumby:

I'm trimming down duplicate channels that have been scanned in

[09:10:14]

Gumby:

most are valid, just different channel numbers but are redundant

[09:10:27]

Gumby:

an example is A&EHD and A&EHD *

[09:12:09]

justinh:

heh my mysql-fu doesn't extend to this

[09:12:13]

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[09:15:14]

Gumby:

:) mine neither. But I did use JOIN once or twice before so I should be able to figure it out

[09:15:15]

Gumby:

thank you

[09:19:07]

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[09:24:27]

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[09:24:40]

waxhead:

Gumby, is the * part of the data in the attribute you're searching on?

[09:24:57]

justinh:

doubt it's that simple

[09:25:04]

waxhead:

is the ' *' appended to all the duplicates?

[09:25:42]

justinh:

if it was he could just do a SELECT channum,callsign,mplexid FROM channel where callsign like "%*%";

[09:25:59]

justinh:

if * isn't also a wildcard lol

[09:26:16]

waxhead:

only to find those records where it has a * in it...

[09:27:09]

waxhead:

is the * significant?

[09:27:21]

Gumby:

waxhead: no, it is not. It is not part of all duplicates

[09:27:41]

Gumby:

that was just one of a few examples I have seen

[09:27:54]

waxhead:

so what is duplicated, the chanid?

[09:28:12]

justinh:

chanid would be unique

[09:28:20]

justinh:

*always*

[09:28:39]

waxhead:

ok.. so what's the duplicated attribute then?

[09:28:53]

waxhead:

call sign?

[09:29:26]

Gumby:

the channels are literal duplicates. both "A&EHD" and "A&EHD *" are valid channels, but they have the same programming (they are the same feed essentially)

[09:29:31]

Gumby:

so I only need one of them

[09:29:38]

Gumby:

are/arent

[09:29:39]

Gumby:

sorry

[09:29:44]

Gumby:

bah

[09:29:46]

Gumby:

let me try again

[09:29:53]

justinh:

I can see a benefit to having duplicates if they're on different frequencies though

[09:29:55]

Gumby:

the channels aren't literal duplicates. both "A&EHD" and "A&EHD *" are valid channels, but they have the same programming (they are the same feed essentially)

[09:30:01]

Gumby:

yeah, they arent though

[09:30:28]

waxhead:

so there isn't any equal value duplicate to find then?

[09:30:35]

waxhead:

only partially equal?

[09:31:34]

justinh:

that's the jist of it

[09:31:36]

Gumby:

well, there are other columns that are equal, but those columns also will return invalid matches should I use them

[09:33:10]

Gumby:

select mplexid,channum,callsign from channel where callsign like '%CBSHW%';

[09:33:14]

Gumby:

| 17 | 822 | CBSHW |

[09:33:14]

Gumby:

| 17 | 1212 | CBSHW * |

[09:33:17]

Gumby:

there is an example

[09:38:27]

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[09:38:43]

Gumby:

I'm going to have to tackle this again tomorrow. 2:30am already, yikes

[09:39:20]

justinh:

another way would be just to script it

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[09:40:44]

Gumby:

thanks for the insight ;)

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waxhead:

so the mplex is always going to be the same?

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justinh:

and if that over in #mythtv isn't a confrontational way to join a channel, I dunno what is

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GreyFoxx:

hahaha yeah

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[17:37:24]

wagnerrp:

sphery: http://planet.gnu.org/gnutelephony/?p=14

[17:37:33]

wagnerrp:

while nice in thought, i dont think it will achieve their goals

[17:39:22]

sphery:

yeah, the big problem with skype is that everyone already uses it

[17:39:32]

sphery:

and they will block any non-skype on their network

[17:39:46]

wagnerrp:

this doesnt intend to access skype

[17:39:51]

sphery:

right

[17:40:02]

wagnerrp:

it intends to build its own p2p telephony network

[17:40:05]

sphery:

meaning that if you use it, you can't talk to people who are on skype

[17:40:18]

sphery:

and even if they tried to allow talking to skype, skype would prevent them

[17:41:02]

sphery:

I actually told all the people I had used skype to talk/chat with that I was dropping it and would be on Google Talk/Voice and Video

[17:41:22]

sphery:

but not everyong can try such an approach.

[17:41:25]

wagnerrp:

'how about video? if you want to compete with skype you'll have to add support for video conference too.'

[17:41:37]

wagnerrp:

... i dont think that commenter understands what this program is doing...

[17:41:44]

sphery:

heh

[17:44:28]

wagnerrp:

you know, i bought all the hardware needed for asterisk like four years ago, and i havent done a thing with it

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[18:07:28]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:07:41]

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[18:07:42]

Beirdo:

I found some hardware I want for Asterisk

[18:07:50]

Beirdo:

GSM module :)

[18:08:02]

Beirdo:

now, how to interface it... dunno at the moment

[18:09:18]

clever:

Beirdo: usualy they use standard haynes modem commands

[18:09:28]

clever:

ATD1234567\r\n

[18:09:48]

clever:

ATH0 and ATH1 to take it on/off hook

[18:09:49]

Beirdo:

Hayes.

[18:09:51]

Beirdo:

:)

[18:10:10]

Beirdo:

I'd just have to read the docs.

[18:10:12]

clever:

Beirdo: let me get you an example of a good project

[18:10:53]

clever:

Beirdo: http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/51

[18:13:21]

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[18:15:26]

kormoc:

Or you just buy a http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/8928/

[18:16:32]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: IMHO, better to just rig up the bluetooth handset module for asterisk

[18:17:05]

wagnerrp:

which you come home, put your phone on the charger, let it sync up with asterisk over bluetooth, and all your wired phones now route through your cell phone

[18:17:17]

wagnerrp:

or at least cell calls now push through your wired phones

[18:18:13]

Beirdo:

well, the idea would be to have a phone always on GSM

[18:18:32]

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[18:20:26]

clever:

kormoc: could a computer with a bluetooth interface claim to be a headset?

[18:20:41]

kormoc:

yes

[18:20:43]

wagnerrp:

sure, if the bluetooth module supports that profile

[18:21:00]

clever:

drivers cant force it?

[18:21:10]

kormoc:

no

[18:21:30]

kormoc:

well, they could claim it, but it won't interface correctly

[18:21:39]

clever:

so its not exactly like ethernet where you can just speak to any other ethernet device

[18:21:43]

wagnerrp:

no

[18:22:20]

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[18:22:26]

wagnerrp:

it was never designed to be, it was designed as a peripheral interconnect

[18:22:40]

wagnerrp:

and the profiles were intended to get some form of enforced reliability

[18:22:58]

wagnerrp:

assuming the firmware driven profiles would be more robust than software drivers

[18:23:12]

clever:

so the bulk of the work is done in hardware/firmware, and out of the control of the os/driver?

[18:23:23]

wagnerrp:

a lot of it, yes

[18:25:03]

clever:

ive always had problems getting bluetooth to do much of anything under linux

[18:26:30]

** wagnerrp 's neck hurts **

[18:27:03]

sphery:

clever: maybe you fear the uniting of Danish tribes

[18:27:37]

clever:

the gnome stuff doesnt do much but error, and the cli stuff can only scan and nothing else

[18:27:53]

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[18:28:33]

wagnerrp:

clever: a couple years ago, one of the undergrads wrote up a bluetooth interface for use with a wiimote and our in-house visualizer

[18:28:45]

wagnerrp:

seemed to work just fine in linux

[18:28:50]

wagnerrp:

and that was like... 2007

[18:29:14]

clever:

dont own a wiimote and ive never gotten anything to really work with bluetooth headsets/phones/other computers

[18:29:17]

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[18:29:28]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: this is the one im talking about, however their site seems dead... http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/chan_mobile

[18:30:00]

wagnerrp:

pluto home has been using bluetooth presence with cell phones to walk a mythtv session through different areas of your home

[18:30:39]

clever:

i can see the mac from scanning, but thats about all i can do

[18:30:47]

clever:

though it would be enough for that

[18:31:46]

Beirdo:

yeah, that could do it. :)

[18:32:47]

wagnerrp:

'each mobile "eats" one bluetooth adapter. multiple mobiles cannot connect to the same adapter'

[18:32:49]

sphery:

wagnerrp: is pluto still alive

[18:32:52]

wagnerrp:

thats pretty crappy

[18:32:59]

sphery:

I thought it died and LMCE is all that remains

[18:33:04]

wagnerrp:

sphery: their site is, and linuxmce is still being maintained

[18:33:09]

sphery:

hmmm

[18:33:11]

wagnerrp:

i dont know if they still sell hardware

[18:33:18]

wagnerrp:

the site hasnt been updated in years

[18:33:53]

sphery:

OK, I'm hoping that http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2034 . . . e-player-bed means MS will also kill off its Zune player software on XB360/XBox Live/Windows Live

[18:34:28]

sphery:

I haven't seen the latest season of The Guild specifically because of how horrendous the new video search/download interface is

[18:35:01]

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[19:54:25]

MMlosh:

Hi! I have a bugreport.. where shall I put it? (can't put ň into recording title by change recording title action, but by-EPG recording can)

[19:55:19]

sphery:

MMlosh: what happens when you try?

[19:55:23]

MMlosh:

(the key is not present in any czech layout, it needs ˇ (dead key + n)

[19:55:28]

MMlosh:

i get ¯n

[19:55:31]

MMlosh:

oh..

[19:55:42]

MMlosh:

ˇn

[19:55:44]

sphery:

so it's a bug in the czeck on-screen keyboard?

[19:55:52]

sphery:

not a bug in the recording title editor?

[19:55:55]

MMlosh:

no.. I used keyboard

[19:56:25]

sphery:

in the title field, please hit Enter, then you should see a keyboard

[19:56:27]

MMlosh:

I assume the bug is in all text field editors.. I'll try to rename a transcoder...

[19:56:36]

sphery:

when you do, please try using it to type the ?

[19:56:50]

sphery:

if that works, you can submit a bug against the mythuitextedit

[19:56:55]

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[19:57:07]

MMlosh:

the character can be there

[19:57:17]

sphery:

(and feel free to mention the change recording title popup, but please don't say it's a bug in that :)

[19:57:20]

MMlosh:

if the original program title has it, there is no problem

[19:57:24]

sphery:

right

[19:57:39]

sphery:

but I'm wondering if using the on-screen keyboard you can do a ? properly or not

[19:57:41]

MMlosh:

but keyboard input does not work with dead keys

[19:58:00]

sphery:

if so, then the bug is "mythuitextedit does not work with dead keys"

[19:58:03]

MMlosh:

I have to enable it first (this is a notebook installation...)

[19:58:06]

sphery:

or does not handle

[19:58:17]

sphery:

onscreen keyboard in mythtv

[19:58:18]

MMlosh:

ok... where is the bugtracker/mailinglist, please?

[19:58:21]

sphery:

just hit Enter in the text edit

[19:58:34]

MMlosh:

I know.. I disabled it, because I am not using a remote

[19:58:38]

sphery:

first please find out whether it's possible to enter it using the onscreen keyboard

[19:59:41]

MMlosh:

OK... btw: transcoder name can handle the character.. no problem there.... looking for the in-line editing option...

[20:00:17]

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[20:01:32]

sphery:

it's in the main General settings

[20:01:35]

MMlosh:

sphery, I assume I need to change the locale to get the dead key there....

[20:01:41]

sphery:

(not the General under TV playback)

[20:02:05]

sphery:

yeah, that makes sense

[20:02:48]

sphery:

MMlosh: nvm... seems it's already reported and known: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8304

[20:03:03]

sphery:

MMlosh: also says that the virtual/on-screen keyboard's Compose approach works properly

[20:03:23]

MMlosh:

oh.. I'll need to read a manual to the compose feature

[20:03:25]

sphery:

(funny thing is I'm the guy who said so)

[20:04:19]

sphery:

MMlosh: that said, if you can come up with a patch that fixes it to properly handle those characters from the keyboard, it will likely be fixed /much/ sooner

[20:04:43]

sphery:

as you see it was something that we hoped to fix for 0.24, then hoped to fix for 0.25, now we aren't even guessing about when someone will get to it

[20:05:08]

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[20:05:20]

sphery:

if there's a patch for it, it will get reviewed /much/ more quickly than waiting for someone to actually find the bug and fix it

[20:05:53]

MMlosh:

yes.. that is how things usually work

[20:06:22]

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[20:06:26]

MMlosh:

people who are bothered by the problem should fix it (also because they know what exactly is wrong and when it's fixed)

[20:06:46]

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[20:06:46]

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[20:06:50]

sphery:

MMlosh: and know what dead keys are and how to get their system set up to use them and how to type them :)

[20:06:58]

MMlosh:

can you give me a hint where should I look (filename or something)?

[20:07:24]

sphery:

(which is why I won't be any help tracking the issue down... I'm a typically-US-English-centric dev from the US :)

[20:08:00]

sphery:

MMlosh: you're directly using mythtv/libs/libmythui/mythuitextedit.{h,cpp} for that element

[20:08:07]

MMlosh:

my system locale is en_US, but.. well.. recording names usually come in my native language

[20:08:15]

sphery:

so the bug may be in there, or may be at a higher level in the hierarchy

[20:08:21]

sphery:

but it's the best place to start

[20:08:34]

MMlosh:

ok.. thanks...

[20:09:04]

sphery:

yeah, I just don't know anything about dead keys or foreign keyboards, so I don't even know how I would test it, let alone fix it

[20:09:15]

sphery:

and thank you for taking a look at it

[20:09:40]

MMlosh:

it is a bit annoying from time to time

[20:09:43]

sphery:

if you come up with a patch--even if you're not sure that it's the "right" fix--that makes it work (or makes it come closer to working), feel free to post it to that ticket

[20:10:10]

MMlosh:

and I want to compile it myself anyway (and remove the timestrech 2x=max limitation for my personal build :P )

[20:10:25]

sphery:

even a patch that's not perfect or not the best way will likely make it clear to stuartm how to fix it properly

[20:10:47]

sphery:

heh, please let me know what happens when you do

[20:10:55]

sphery:

I was thinking there was a reason that 2x was put there

[20:11:08]

sphery:

may have just been because there was already a 3x ffwd

[20:11:21]

sphery:

(and because you have to be crazy focused to catch stuff at > 2x)

[20:11:28]

sphery:

actually, I'd say at > 1.75x

[20:11:53]

MMlosh:

yes.. usually

[20:12:04]

MMlosh:

but some shows for children are interesting too

[20:12:09]

MMlosh:

but so slowly-talked

[20:12:14]

sphery:

I will admit that different shows have different speeds

[20:12:15]

MMlosh:

at 2x they seem natural

[20:12:19]

sphery:

(and different actors, for that matter)

[20:13:08]

sphery:

yeah, I always thought that Nova episodes and other documentaries would be hard to follow at 1.5x or 1.75x because of the amount of info they push at you, but it turns out they do so slowly, so they're actually some of the easiest to watch at high timestretch)

[20:13:20]

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[20:14:05]

sphery:

movies are harder than TV--because TV seems to be generally slower and actors enunciate better because traditionally the TV speaker quality was very poor compared to movie theater speaker quality

[20:14:36]

sphery:

so while I can easily do 1.75x on some shows, or 1.5x on most shows, movies are hard to get at > 1.25x...

[20:14:46]

sphery:

then again, others may find they can watch faster

[20:14:47]

MMlosh:

and there might be a scene with "TV news" which is usually quite fast even at 1x

[20:15:49]

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[20:17:02]

sphery:

right

[20:17:21]

sphery:

anyway, I'm still interested in what would happen at > 2x, so I'd appreciate your letting me know :)

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[20:25:57]

MMlosh:

sphery, justinh tested it... it works

[20:26:01]

Nede:

hi chat

[20:26:10]

MMlosh:

even at 8x

[20:26:38]

MMlosh:

the only thing that breaks is speed setting GUI (he changed the default value in the database... quick&dirty)

[20:26:42]

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[20:27:10]

Nede:

Who helps me to understand if the CI module is seen? Technotrend S2–3200 + CI

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[20:31:18]

Nede:

I can not see why not tune encrypted channels .. I have no doubt that the CI is not seen ....

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[20:32:04]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v xris

[20:32:05]

wagnerrp:

you may not be authorized to view those channels

[20:34:09]

Nede:

[20:34:33]

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[20:35:29]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: i know you had the first season of ST:TOS, did you ever pick up the rest?

[20:39:11]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: I didn't... Maybe when it goes on sale some time, but not at the top of my list right now either

[20:40:34]

Nede:

wagnerrp, You are practical TechnoTrend S2–3200? How do I know if the form is recognized CI son?

[20:40:41]

wagnerrp:

on sale for $57/season, down from $130

[20:40:52]

wagnerrp:

hardly a steal, but...

[20:42:16]

wagnerrp:

anyway, its on amazon

[20:43:23]

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[21:46:59]

ben__:

When playing 720p avc video from my HD-PVR it skips sometimes and I am getting this error:

[21:47:00]

ben__:

AFD Warning: Audio 2079897 ms behind video but already 180 video frames queued. AV-Sync might be broken.

[21:47:52]

ben__:

What is causing this / how can I fix this?

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[21:53:31]

Nede:

How do I get this log (the last log extra info)? :http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/TechnoTrend_TT-DVB-T_1500

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ben__:

Nede: the mythbackend log is at /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log

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[23:26:40]

nichos:

hi all, how can i purge my TV guide data – it's messed up after the time change :)

[23:28:09]

nichos:

the clock is right, the guide data is wrong

[23:28:35]

wagnerrp:

mythfilldatabase --dd-grab-all

[23:29:33]

nichos:

going to reboot and try:)

[23:29:44]

wagnerrp:

what is a reboot going to do?

[23:30:05]

nichos:

after that command it said to restart backend

[23:30:43]

wagnerrp:

what did?

[23:30:57]

nichos:

mythfilldatabase --dd-grab-all

[23:31:05]

nichos:

but either way, it didn't fix it

[23:31:19]

wagnerrp:

it shoudlnt have, there should have been no reason to restart the backend

[23:31:45]

wagnerrp:

and unless youre using only broadcast channels, there is no way it should have even downloaded that fast

[23:31:50]

wagnerrp:

much less processed and finished

[23:31:55]

nichos:

im using OTA

[23:33:02]

sphery:

nichos: are you using EIT data or Schedules Direct?

[23:33:21]

nichos:

EIT

[23:33:27]

sphery:

EIT is the broadcast guide data

[23:33:32]

wagnerrp:

switch to schedules direct

[23:33:36]

nichos:

lol

[23:33:43]

sphery:

if so, your broadcasters suck and don't send the right data

[23:33:45]

wagnerrp:

your broadcasters may very well be sending bad data

[23:33:49]

nichos:

we're no the rockefellers

[23:33:56]

sphery:

you may need to set an EIT offset

[23:33:59]

sphery:

and it may fail

[23:34:04]

nichos:

this happened last time change but I rebuilt the box and I can't remember what i did

[23:34:15]

wagnerrp:

were talking about $20/yr

[23:34:19]

sphery:

but for less than $0.06/day, you, too, can have high-quality data that makes MythTV a dream to use

[23:34:19]

wagnerrp:

half a cent a day

[23:34:44]

sphery:

half a dime a day :)

[23:35:09]

wagnerrp:

yeah, got off an order of magnitude there

[23:35:11]

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[23:35:35]

sphery:

nichos: for real, MythTV with US EIT data is garbage

[23:35:56]

nichos:

ok, i got it

[23:36:06]

sphery:

and the $20/yr I spend on a Schedules Direct membership to get the same data TiVo users pay $15/mo to get is the best $20/yr I spend

[23:36:07]

nichos:

time offset in General -> Locale Settings.

[23:36:19]

nichos:

well, i don't have cable

[23:36:24]

sphery:

nor do I

[23:36:25]

nichos:

so i'd be paying that for like 5/10 chans

[23:36:34]

nichos:

20 if you count the jesus chans:)

[23:36:36]

sphery:

no, you pay $20/yr for a membership

[23:36:39]

sphery:

you get listings for free

[23:36:44]

sphery:

Schedules Direct doesn't sell listings

[23:37:10]

ServerSage:

I'm having a frustrating issue where every so often recordings from my HD-PVR fail. The most recent just happened and I pasted the log output here: http://pastebin.com/eZV9ZNK5

[23:37:14]

nichos:

i thought that's what is for – the listings

[23:37:15]

sphery:

but based on your IP address, I'm thinking you'll get /very/ similar (if not exactly the same) channels I get

[23:37:26]

sphery:

nichos: with a membership you get listings

[23:37:48]

sphery:

so most just say you're paying for the listings, but technically, the listings are free to members

[23:37:59]

nichos:

any other perks of being a member?

[23:38:02]

sphery:

free of charge, not Free to distribute or anything

[23:38:14]

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[23:38:25]

sphery:

more than anything they distribute any excess money to deserving FOSS projects

[23:38:35]

nichos:

well that counts for something

[23:38:59]

abqjp:

ServerSage: annoying isn't it? Unfortunately, there does not seem to be any way for the Linux driver to recover when the HD-PVR gets stuck like that.

[23:39:31]

ServerSage:

abqjp: I'm not sure annoying is a strong enough word.

[23:39:37]

sphery:

nichos: that said, the amount of excess money is dwindling because many people are deciding to steal listings data from Microsoft and Tribute Media Services, instead

[23:40:19]

sphery:

so another benefit of membership is that you may keep the only organization that provides a legal source of listings data for US FOSS users from going defunct

[23:40:21]

ServerSage:

abqjp: Is there some preventative steps I can take? Rebooting it daily, sacrificing a goat at the alter, anything?

[23:40:49]

abqjp:

Not that I know of. Some people have suggested that keeping the HD-PVR "cool" can help.

[23:41:04]

nichos:

i do contribute to FOSS projects through my easynews subscription

[23:41:11]

nichos:

but this might also be beneficial

[23:41:28]

ServerSage:

abqjp: There might be something to that. I just stacked my linksys switch on top of it.

[23:41:41]

sphery:

nichos: from your perspective, though, the main benefit of the membership would be the hugely-better-quality listings data

[23:42:00]

nichos:

how far ahead do they go?

[23:42:04]

sphery:

nichos: will help with duplicate matching (which is likely to be virtually useless with EIT)

[23:42:07]

wagnerrp:

two weeks

[23:42:09]

ServerSage:

abqjp: Wow, it was WARM. Thanks, hopefully that helps a bit.

[23:42:09]

sphery:

and may get you more days of data

[23:42:23]

abqjp:

ServerSage: some people have also suggested that the latest kernel is actually bad. In other words, Fedora 14 and the the latest ubuntu seem to have more problems than releases from a year ago. I don't know why that would be, though.

[23:42:53]

nichos:

ya, can't get worse, i get about 24–48 hours

[23:42:53]

sphery:

nichos: yeah, 2 weeks, nominally, but you'll have between 13 and 17 days of data if you use mythfilldatabase --dd-grab-all (see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/449426#449426 )

[23:42:59]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[23:43:04]

sphery:

I'm actually surprised you get that much

[23:43:13]

sphery:

a lot of stations only give the FCC-mandated now/next

[23:43:17]

sphery:

and don't provide any listings

[23:43:18]

wagnerrp:

sphery: im honestly surprised they havent had better luck tracking him through whoever does his donations

[23:43:41]

sphery:

wagnerrp: which him?

[23:44:09]

wagnerrp:

the guy stealing from microsoft/tms

[23:44:09]

nichos:

the description is very often wrong, the show title is usually correct

[23:44:15]

ServerSage:

abqjp: Sigh. At least I have two things to try now. If an older kernel doesn't work, I'll try the goat… Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.

[23:44:23]

wagnerrp:

s/stealing/sticking it to the men/

[23:44:25]

sphery:

nichos: will be correct with Schedules Direct data :)

[23:44:43]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ahhh, yeah

[23:44:44]

abqjp:

ServerSage: good luck.

[23:44:52]

nichos:

i'll seriously consider it. First up i have to buy a monster heatsink, this WHIRRRRRRRRR from the AMD fan is driving me nuts

[23:45:30]

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[23:46:05]

sphery:

wagnerrp: one of the US departments is asking for the ability to force Paypal, etc, to stop taking money for bad sites

[23:46:59]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2034 . . . gal-websites

[23:47:15]

sphery:

specifically for copyright-violating websites

[23:47:37]

nichos:

thanks sphery and wagnerrp for your help tonight

[23:47:43]

wagnerrp:

but hes not violating any copyright

[23:48:07]

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[23:48:34]

wagnerrp:

this isnt a copyright issue, its a straight computer crimes issue

[23:49:23]

clever:

there was a network wide notice last night about somebody spamming a paypal acct for donations for japan

[23:49:43]

clever:

thats even worse then selling copywrited shows

[23:50:21]

sphery:

wagnerrp: well, has copyright, too--since TMS has copyright over some of the info in the listings (and may be able to claim a compilation copyright)

[23:50:30]

sphery:

but, yeah, computer crimes would come in, too

[23:50:38]

sphery:

and probably easier to prosecute under

[23:51:16]

wagnerrp:

but hes not breaking copyright, since hes not distributing any copyrighted content

[23:51:30]

wagnerrp:

at best, they may be able to get him for DMCA violations

[23:52:04]

sphery:

wagnerrp: btw, I've updated recordedfile schema stuff on the wiki. It may be the final version before I push it in (I don't have any other changes on my TODO list), so if you'd like to look at it and do a sanity check, I'd appreciate it

[23:52:13]

sphery:

ah, yeah, true about the distributing

[23:52:20]

wagnerrp:

got a link?

[23:52:25]

sphery:

guess the copyright violations are the guys who use it

[23:52:45]

sphery:

http://code.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/TaskRecordedFile + http://code.mythtv.org/trac/attachment/wiki/T . . . e_schema.png

[23:52:53]

sphery:

make sure you shift-reload, just in case

[23:53:01]

sphery:

the wiki doesn't seem to always tell browsers to reload

[23:53:02]

sphery:

:)

[23:53:50]

wagnerrp:

youve got recorded.basename

[23:54:32]

sphery:

yeah, it will be the "default" file

[23:55:25]

sphery:

may go away, eventually, once the joins are proven to be sufficiently easy for the Atom systems :)

[23:56:39]

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[23:56:46]

wagnerrp:

by the way, you missed a key solution for the window focus issue stuff

[23:56:55]

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[23:57:44]

sphery:

what's that?

[23:57:52]

sphery:

don't use debian?

[23:58:00]

wagnerrp:

dont use mplayer

[23:59:08]

sphery:

oh, he's using mplayer?

[23:59:19]

wagnerrp:

how else would he be getting focus issues?

[23:59:31]

sphery:

heh, yeah, it is

[23:59:43]

sphery:

I thought it was actually the "video window is covered by UI" issue

[23:59:51]

wagnerrp:

nope

[23:59:56]

sphery:

and a user who didn't know details calling it a "focus" issue

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