| Monday, February 14th, 2011, 00:00 UTC | ||
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| [00:41:58] | sphery: | heh, in "Re: [mythtv-users] MythTV vs. Windows Media Center", 2 posts in a row saying that Atom+ION boxes are "are full computers, so can be put to other uses." I think that would actually be "full computers, lacking only a Central Processing Unit, so can be put to other users--very slowly." |
| [00:42:22] | [R]: | lol |
| [00:42:47] | JEDIDIAH__: | Think of them as "mother-in-law" computers. |
| [00:42:54] | wagnerrp: | sphery: you know, when those things first came out, there were companies trying to sell them as a form of 'physicalization' |
| [00:43:05] | wagnerrp: | it was an alternate to virtualization |
| [00:43:08] | sphery: | heh |
| [00:43:15] | sphery: | hadn't heard that |
| [00:43:28] | wagnerrp: | they only had enough power to run one task, but you could have 20 of them instead of a big powerful multi-processor server |
| [00:43:40] | sphery: | wow |
| [00:43:42] | sphery: | makes sense |
| [00:43:53] | sphery: | I'm sure |
| [00:44:00] | JEDIDIAH__: | sounds like blade servers but less convenient and maintainable. |
| [00:44:34] | wagnerrp: | basically |
| [00:44:52] | wagnerrp: | except blades generally have a worthwhile processor (or two) and a big chunk of memory |
| [00:45:27] | sphery: | CPU and RAM are highly overrated |
| [00:51:25] | ** Beirdo has bikeage ** | |
| [00:51:59] | ** Beirdo found out just how much work he has ahead of him to get even slightly in shape... other than round. ** | |
| [00:53:18] | Beirdo: | laga: http://www.rei.com/product/807231 |
| [00:53:21] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [00:54:06] | sphery: | the round is good for lower air resistance |
| [00:54:13] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [00:54:32] | wagnerrp: | the round? |
| [00:54:37] | sphery: | round shape |
| [00:54:53] | Beirdo: | large teardrop shape? :) |
| [00:54:55] | sphery: | of Beirdo ... "other than round" |
| [00:55:03] | wagnerrp: | round is an awful aerodynamic space |
| [00:55:06] | wagnerrp: | shape |
| [00:55:20] | Beirdo: | better than square |
| [00:55:21] | sphery: | so, typo in the TMS American Dad description for tonight, "Rogers asks Stan..." |
| [00:55:37] | sphery: | if they and TMS had a way, I'd happily correct that for them. |
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| [00:56:48] | Beirdo: | so I don't think I'll be biking EVERY day yet :) |
| [00:57:17] | Beirdo: | maybe over time |
| [00:57:49] | Beirdo: | :) |
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| [01:06:43] | sphery: | ah, the "To the cloud" commercial where they "pulled up the screen from our PC at home" and paste a recording of Celebrity Probation onto their laptop's Desktop. Based on the airport Internet bandwidth I've seen, I'm thinking their delay /must/ have been longer than "between 15 minutes and three hours" |
| [01:07:11] | wagnerrp: | sphery: you dont understand what was going on there |
| [01:07:16] | wagnerrp: | the file was already on their laptop |
| [01:07:31] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [01:07:32] | wagnerrp: | they were requesting the right to decrypt it from the cablecard tuner on their home PC |
| [01:07:43] | Beirdo: | to the cloud... my butt |
| [01:07:50] | Beirdo: | to my home PC, nore like it |
| [01:07:53] | sphery: | heh, that might happen in a reasonable time |
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| [02:13:46] | sphery: | Nova episode, "Smartest Machine on Earth," says, "The electronic Watson consists of 2800 processors. That's like 6,000 high-end home computers." |
| [02:14:32] | sphery: | wouldn't it have made more sense to talk about cores? |
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| [02:26:37] | JEDIDIAH__: | ...or MIPS or FLOPS even. |
| [02:26:39] | wagnerrp: | single machine? or cluster? |
| [02:27:02] | JEDIDIAH__: | I wonder what their idea of high end home computer is like. |
| [02:27:07] | sphery: | power7 based system |
| [02:27:09] | wagnerrp: | an Atom |
| [02:27:28] | sphery: | seems power7 comes in 4,6, or 8 cores running at 3–4.25GHz, per wikipedia |
| [02:27:36] | sphery: | don't know which they used |
| [02:27:43] | wagnerrp: | i thought they wwere up over 5GHz |
| [02:27:59] | sphery: | if you assume 8 cores, then it's basically assuming a quad-core for high-end home computer |
| [02:28:16] | sphery: | ignoring differences between power and x86 archs |
| [02:28:31] | sphery: | wikipedia may well be out of date |
| [02:28:35] | wagnerrp: | you can get 6-core systems in consumer sockets |
| [02:28:46] | sphery: | --on everything other than space elevators, that is |
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| [02:31:02] | wagnerrp: | ah, the power6 was in the 5GHz range |
| [02:38:10] | sphery: | looks like a 5-racks |
| [02:40:21] | JEDIDIAH__: | some hex cores are even fairly affordable. |
| [02:40:41] | wagnerrp: | yeah, AMDs start at $200 |
| [02:41:07] | wagnerrp: | but then theyre clocked so low, you can generally get better performance out of a quad phenom, depending on your problem set |
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| [02:41:31] | JEDIDIAH__: | I have a quad and a hex. |
| [02:41:36] | sphery: | wagnerrp: http://imagebin.org/137817 |
| [02:42:11] | sphery: | heh, had to switch to ScreenShot Jump Point since SCREENSHOT key binding kills all event processing, and forgot that gets the OSD, too |
| [02:42:19] | sphery: | now everyone knows I use Arclight |
| [02:42:59] | wagnerrp: | the low end hex is 2.8GHz? i thought it was like 2.1 or something |
| [02:44:05] | wagnerrp: | ooh... the cloud |
| [02:44:07] | JEDIDIAH__: | dunno what's lowest end. the 2.8 x6 hit my price sweet spot. |
| [02:44:30] | wagnerrp: | the 2.8 is the lowest end |
| [02:44:39] | JEDIDIAH__: | runs multithreaded transcodes very well. |
| [02:45:28] | wagnerrp: | its the low end opterons that are much lower clocked |
| [02:53:30] | sphery: | I knew I should have waited to watch this episode |
| [02:53:43] | wagnerrp: | oh? |
| [02:53:45] | sphery: | now I have to record Jeopardy tomorrow through the 16th |
| [02:53:57] | wagnerrp: | thats when theyre playing? |
| [02:54:01] | sphery: | seems it is |
| [02:54:14] | sphery: | don't know what happens if it loses |
| [02:55:15] | sphery: | heh, no episode info for it |
| [02:55:57] | sphery: | I'll record all 3 |
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| [03:17:34] | Beirdo: | la la la. |
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| [03:26:15] | wagnerrp: | sphery: they really should have hired Darrell Hammond to do the voice profile |
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| [03:30:10] | sphery: | heh |
| [03:30:41] | wagnerrp: | it would have made the announcer's taunts better if he could have fired back |
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| [03:30:53] | wagnerrp: | but... he couldnt see or hear |
| [03:30:57] | wagnerrp: | shame |
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| [03:31:22] | sphery: | yeah |
| [03:31:46] | [R]: | so wait... did the mythtvosd stuff go into master or 0.24? |
| [03:32:01] | wagnerrp: | master |
| [03:32:06] | ** [R] gets all sad ** | |
| [03:34:18] | wagnerrp: | sphery: well with no responses on that thread yet, im going to proceed as outlined |
| [03:35:39] | wagnerrp: | since its a fairly clean break in the protocol, im going to have to start with a fresh backend |
| [03:35:51] | wagnerrp: | so i may inadvertently do your work for you |
| [03:38:37] | Beirdo: | Hehe, you might wanna wait a few more days before assuming no responses though :) |
| [03:38:50] | Beirdo: | I liked your proposal, FWIW |
| [03:39:14] | wagnerrp: | well im just going to be doing basic stuff, setting up the announces with versioning |
| [03:39:33] | Beirdo: | yeah, that shouldn't run into any early objections, I'm sure |
| [03:39:39] | wagnerrp: | thats really something that needs to happen for a modular protocol, whether people want it or not |
| [03:40:03] | wagnerrp: | and the backend breakup is something thats been discussed for years |
| [03:40:23] | Beirdo: | yup |
| [03:40:29] | wagnerrp: | i wont be fiddling with the data serialization stuff for some time |
| [03:42:55] | wagnerrp: | well this is going to be fairly extensive... far far far more so than the mythsystem stuff |
| [03:43:07] | wagnerrp: | and if the jobqueue stuff is going to depend on it |
| [03:43:26] | wagnerrp: | may as well push that back until 0.26, and commit #9409 |
| [03:43:42] | wagnerrp: | ill hold off for a few days for responses though... |
| [03:44:19] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [03:44:28] | Beirdo: | it's a big big rewrite |
| [03:45:59] | wagnerrp: | why do these minor little tasks become so all consuming |
| [03:46:14] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [03:46:24] | wagnerrp: | this started out as a relatively little project to remove the special handling in the jobqueue for mythtranscode/mythcommflag |
| [03:47:25] | Beirdo: | and it's turned into "WTF, let's fix a whole pile of stuff at once" |
| [03:47:27] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [03:47:47] | wagnerrp: | hey, why weve got it torn up, lets change this too |
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| [03:47:58] | Beirdo: | aye |
| [03:47:58] | wagnerrp: | oh, you want that? yeah, nows a good time to that that |
| [03:48:45] | sphery: | wagnerrp: heh, that's how I get all my work done. :) |
| [03:48:52] | ** wagnerrp starts up a task ticket for mythshark, and then jumps over it ** | |
| [03:48:55] | sphery: | by getting others to do it |
| [03:48:59] | Beirdo: | heheh |
| [03:49:36] | Beirdo: | so I need to find my allen key set... AGAIN |
| [03:49:49] | Beirdo: | blah, how can I keep misplacing that? |
| [03:49:50] | wagnerrp: | sphery: how do you think i got the mythsystem stuff done? |
| [03:49:55] | Beirdo: | heheh |
| [03:50:01] | wagnerrp: | i wrote it, and then had beirdo rewrite it and actually make it work |
| [03:50:42] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: up for another round? this ones a dosey |
| [03:52:01] | Beirdo: | hehe, possibly :) |
| [03:52:10] | Beirdo: | I'd be happy to help out |
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| [03:53:17] | wagnerrp: | well im getting better... mythfileserver was actually running with no problems, aside from possible leaked MythSockets |
| [03:53:38] | Beirdo: | nice |
| [03:54:37] | mianos: | is there a 'normal' way to trim the front of a program |
| [03:54:45] | mianos: | I've recorded stuff for my daughter |
| [03:54:48] | wagnerrp: | digital recording? |
| [03:54:53] | mianos: | and I want to have it start right up int he show |
| [03:54:56] | mianos: | mpeg |
| [03:55:05] | mianos: | juet edit the mpeg externally? |
| [03:55:25] | wagnerrp: | any recording, you can go into edit mode, create a cutlist, and mythfrontend will behave as cut sections no longer exist |
| [03:55:41] | mianos: | hmm OK sounds like what Iw ant |
| [03:55:45] | mianos: | it's not to save space |
| [03:55:50] | wagnerrp: | if its mpeg2 content, you can then do a lossless transcode to physically remove those cut sections for space savings |
| [03:55:55] | mianos: | just so she does nto get annoyed at the earleir program ending |
| [03:56:09] | wagnerrp: | in playback, hit 'e' |
| [03:56:18] | wagnerrp: | and if commercial detection works, hit 'z' |
| [03:56:22] | mianos: | cool thanks, just looking for the key |
| [03:56:45] | mianos: | should work with commercial detection as well as they are commercial free programs |
| [03:57:08] | mianos: | but I've found the commercial detecttion on station trailers on ABC2 seems a bit offy |
| [04:01:32] | wagnerrp: | 'hack to make sure ... get set if the user downgrades to a prior version...' |
| [04:01:41] | wagnerrp: | i dont think we need to keep those around, do we? |
| [04:01:43] | mianos: | aha http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Editing_Recordings |
| [04:01:48] | mianos: | ok found it thanks |
| [04:02:10] | wagnerrp: | what version are you running? |
| [04:02:32] | mianos: | mytbuntu ppa 24+fixes daily |
| [04:02:40] | wagnerrp: | ok, then those directions will be valid |
| [04:02:47] | wagnerrp: | 0.24 got a new cutlist editor |
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| [04:03:13] | wagnerrp: | as a new user... we'd be interested to know if you consider it intuitive |
| [04:03:39] | wagnerrp: | there were a lot of complaints from old users who had gotten used to the old editor, and had difficulty transitioning to the new one |
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| [04:07:42] | wagnerrp: | sphery: do you know why these --nohousekeeper/--nosched/--noautoexpire options exist? |
| [04:07:55] | avcascade: | Anybody know why trying to remove flashplugin-installer would also result in Ubuntu asking me if I want to remove mythtelevision and mythplugins? |
| [04:08:17] | wagnerrp: | theres a mythtelevision package? |
| [04:08:23] | Beirdo: | I have a feeling my legs are gonna complain tomorrow |
| [04:08:40] | [R]: | avcascade: you mean mythnetvision? |
| [04:08:40] | avcascade: | In Ubuntu, yes |
| [04:09:02] | avcascade: | Yes, sorry. mythnetvision |
| [04:09:09] | [R]: | thats becusae mythnetvision depends on flash |
| [04:09:09] | avcascade: | I spelled it wrong |
| [04:09:11] | [R]: | thats the whole point of it |
| [04:09:44] | wagnerrp: | its primary purpose is to facilitate viewing of website which stream video through the flash player |
| [04:09:55] | wagnerrp: | youtube, hulu, etc... |
| [04:10:08] | [R]: | <insert random flash based porn site> |
| [04:10:09] | [R]: | lol |
| [04:10:19] | avcascade: | Well, I figured there was some link. But if I'd prefer to just remove and reinstall flashplugin-installer, do I also need to remove all the related myth packages first? |
| [04:10:34] | wagnerrp: | ive not seen any porn grabbers yet |
| [04:10:38] | [R]: | avcascade: thats a debian question, not a myth question |
| [04:10:53] | [R]: | s/debian/ubuntu/ |
| [04:12:22] | wagnerrp: | i should probably start this on a new database for safety |
| [04:12:32] | avcascade: | Fair enough, but will removing the myth packages and then reinstalling them cause any problems for MythTV? |
| [04:12:43] | wagnerrp: | it shouldnt |
| [04:12:51] | wagnerrp: | all settings are stored in the database |
| [04:12:57] | wagnerrp: | which should not be wiped |
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| [04:15:15] | avcascade: | Thanks, wagner. That's good to know. By the way, I have another Ubuntu system that doesn't have MythTV on it. It exhibited the same problem... Flash plugin wouldn't work in any browsers after I applied the update that was pushed out, but after I restarted, Flash works just fine. On this system, which *does* have MythTV, the plugin would not work even after a restart. |
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| [04:26:04] | hovr: | Hi.. I'm having an issue with mythweb fixes/0.24. |
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| [04:31:38] | mianos: | wagnerrp new editor rocks |
| [04:31:40] | mianos: | easy as |
| [04:31:47] | mianos: | just cut the frotn and back off 10 shows |
| [04:32:02] | mianos: | perfect for what I used it for |
| [04:32:48] | wagnerrp: | sphery: if were having a dedicated master backend program |
| [04:33:01] | wagnerrp: | do we really need any other IPs stored in the database? |
| [04:33:35] | wagnerrp: | ... yeah, i guess we would, since there might be half a dozen addresses on a system for various interfaces |
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| [04:34:31] | k-man: | i read on the mailing list that the "watch recording" stuff has been majorly refactored |
| [04:34:53] | k-man: | which affects the "please wait" screen |
| [04:35:21] | k-man: | do you think that might also solve the problem i have with the frontend hanging on the please wait from time to time? |
| [04:35:30] | wagnerrp: | on second though, could we let the routing tables decide how to access the master, and have the master tell the recorder what address to listen on? |
| [04:35:47] | wagnerrp: | well... something that could be resolved later |
| [04:36:36] | Beirdo: | hmmm, I should go get food. 8:30pm and I'm getting hungry |
| [04:37:09] | wagnerrp: | no, that wouldnt work if we intend to support both ipv4 and ipv6 clients simultaneously |
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| [05:03:40] | mianos: | woot this cut editor is really really good |
| [05:04:20] | mianos: | if I hold my remote in two hands with one hand offset ont he up and down and the other on the fwd/rev and ffw frev I can cut the head and tail of a program in about 20 seconds |
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| [05:23:01] | cesman (cesman!~cecil@pdpc/supporter/professional/cesman) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | |
| [05:25:24] | Cydd: | what do you call a black man who flies a plane? |
| [05:25:38] | wagnerrp: | a pilot |
| [05:25:57] | Cydd: | DAMNIT WAGNER |
| [05:27:28] | [R]: | how is that a joke? |
| [05:27:34] | kormoc: | You've been warned about your language in the past Cydd |
| [05:27:40] | wagnerrp: | i thought we were doing trivia |
| [05:27:56] | kormoc: | [R], he wants you to say, "What?" and he'll say "A pilot you racist" |
| [05:28:26] | [R]: | oh... |
| [05:28:30] | kormoc: | Edgy stuff 15 years ago |
| [05:29:09] | wagnerrp: | i thought edgy was 5 years ago |
| [05:36:57] | ** wagnerrp creates a new mythtv database for the first time since 2006 ** | |
| [05:38:54] | Beirdo: | fun :) |
| [05:39:16] | [R]: | i made a new one when i switched to 0.24 |
| [05:43:07] | ** mishehu bahs. ** | |
| [05:46:12] | Beirdo: | so shaved goats bah? |
| [05:48:42] | mishehu: | of course they do |
| [05:48:47] | mishehu: | even the unshaven ones do |
| [05:49:13] | mishehu: | they bah even more when frustrated by almost-functional configuraitons |
| [05:49:31] | mishehu: | like I almost have google voice interfacing with my freeswitch install. |
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| [05:50:19] | mishehu: | hmm and I've got a mythbuntu box I really need to u pdate. |
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| [06:13:47] | sphery: | wagnerrp: Heh, well with mythsystem, you wrote it first... I just talk it up until I get someone else to do my jobs. |
| [06:14:09] | wagnerrp: | is there any way to do a 'class pointer'? |
| [06:14:27] | sphery: | wagnerrp: for the --noautoexpire kind of stuff, they're primarily for developers--i.e. I always start with --noschedule --noautoexpire on my dev box |
| [06:14:56] | sphery: | since it doesn't record and I have some recordings there just to have something (and don't want them to expire when I set them as Live TV for testing :) |
| [06:15:13] | wagnerrp: | something similar to a function pointer |
| [06:15:37] | wagnerrp: | so i could do 'BaseClass *handler = new classpointer();' |
| [06:15:56] | wagnerrp: | or would i have to use a function pointer that returned a new instance of the class |
| [06:15:59] | sphery: | not sure what you want |
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| [06:16:34] | wagnerrp: | well right now, ive got a handler instance that runs all operations for a certain type of connection |
| [06:16:39] | sphery: | the class is the cookie cutter, the object is the cookie... you use cookie cutters to make cookies, which you eat--you don't want to eat the cookie cutter. right? |
| [06:16:53] | sphery: | :) |
| [06:17:01] | [R]: | mmm |
| [06:17:02] | [R]: | cookies |
| [06:17:14] | wagnerrp: | the handler instance handles the announce, and spawns a new object to handle the socket |
| [06:17:14] | sphery: | are you trying to create a factory |
| [06:17:25] | sphery: | that creates subclass handlers? |
| [06:17:26] | wagnerrp: | if im moving all the announce handling into the main code |
| [06:17:37] | wagnerrp: | yeah, a factory |
| [06:17:55] | [R]: | a cookie factory!? |
| [06:18:12] | sphery: | with that, you'll just create an object and have it instantiate the appropriate object type depending on what's received |
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| [06:18:34] | wagnerrp: | but how do i store the types? |
| [06:18:39] | wagnerrp: | it has to know everything before hand |
| [06:18:47] | sphery: | as in what's available |
| [06:18:53] | sphery: | or what you've instantiated |
| [06:19:03] | sphery: | polymorphism should take care of what you've instantiated |
| [06:19:10] | sphery: | i.e. each object just does the right thing |
| [06:19:17] | sphery: | when you say work(), it does whatever it's supposed to do |
| [06:19:22] | sphery: | (or whatever you call things) |
| [06:19:36] | sphery: | but you'll keep pointers or references of the superclass type |
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| [06:19:59] | wagnerrp: | but i cant instantiate the object in the main code |
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| [06:20:15] | wagnerrp: | because i dont know about the class i need to instantiate |
| [06:20:30] | wagnerrp: | in python, i can just pass a type |
| [06:20:45] | wagnerrp: | and if i create a new type, it handles everything properly |
| [06:20:51] | wagnerrp: | i dont think c++ can do that |
| [06:21:08] | wagnerrp: | so i would pass a pointer to a function that understands how to create that type? |
| [06:21:59] | sphery: | someone registered itself as being a handler for certain things, right? |
| [06:22:21] | wagnerrp: | i dont want to pass a full object if i dont need to |
| [06:22:32] | wagnerrp: | or am i being irrational, and there is no reason not to pass an object? |
| [06:22:51] | sphery: | well, creating objects isn't bad |
| [06:23:01] | sphery: | passing them on the stack isn't necessarily good |
| [06:23:49] | sphery: | what I normall do is have the code that's choosing to register a listener/handler/whatever pass the handler object |
| [06:24:17] | sphery: | if you need multiple objects, have that listener/handler/whatever instantiate a new object for each connection or request or whatever |
| [06:24:43] | wagnerrp: | yes, im saying i just want to pass a handler type |
| [06:24:44] | sphery: | you can pass a pointer to the handler object, then store that pointer in a list (using the superclass type) |
| [06:24:52] | wagnerrp: | and have the code make a new object of that type whenever it needs one |
| [06:25:00] | sphery: | since the main app just needs to call the appropriate interface method--work() |
| [06:25:05] | wagnerrp: | rather than having some other chunk of code spawn it for me |
| [06:25:36] | sphery: | well, trying to write the main code so it knows how to create every handler object that will ever be written is very complex |
| [06:26:13] | sphery: | and, IMHO, throwing away type handling and using some code that uses strings or whatever to determine what type to instantiate is dangerous and slow |
| [06:26:39] | sphery: | so, instead, have whatever registers as a handler just pass a reference/pointer to some object |
| [06:27:00] | sphery: | then have that object either handle the request or work as a factory for handlers for requests |
| [06:27:45] | sphery: | so FileProtocolHandlerFactory could then register itself to handle requests for file protocol stuff, and just create FileProtocolHandler objects for each incoming request |
| [06:28:34] | wagnerrp: | basically, this is what i want to do... http://mythtv.pastebin.com/dagT4w33 |
| [06:29:33] | sphery: | I think the closest thing to that in C++ is using templates |
| [06:29:40] | sphery: | but, IMHO, templates are an ugly mess |
| [06:29:55] | sphery: | and, in truth, all they do is write the specific code for you |
| [06:30:38] | sphery: | I would write it as MainServer::registerHandler(Worker *object) |
| [06:30:48] | sphery: | then whoever registers just creates the object to use |
| [06:31:16] | sphery: | the memory usage won't be a concern--especially if the worker is just a simple factory that creates the large/complex objects on demand |
| [06:31:41] | sphery: | feel free to ask others for their idea (CM and Bei rdo and ...) |
| [06:32:35] | sphery: | but, I'm a fan of using the type system (and not doing dynamic binding using strings) and I feel that if you're using an OO language, you should use objects |
| [06:32:39] | wagnerrp: | what i was saying a function pointer would be something like this... http://mythtv.pastebin.com/dw9zufLs |
| [06:32:53] | sphery: | (I'm not a fan of C code compiled with a C++ compiler--which is what most "C++" tends to be) |
| [06:33:41] | sphery: | right, but I'm just saying it's not really the MainServer's job to spawn all these handler objects |
| [06:33:55] | sphery: | much easier if whoever wants to be a handler passes a reference in |
| [06:34:33] | sphery: | make it a small object--could even be one that has a single-line function that just instantiates the handler and passes it the request-time information it needs to handle that request |
| [06:34:45] | sphery: | and it won't be a performance or memory issue |
| [06:35:09] | wagnerrp: | right, my point is why bother making an object for such a small function, why not just a function pointer |
| [06:35:18] | wagnerrp: | except function pointers arent the 'OO way to do things' |
| [06:35:30] | sphery: | IMHO, because you're using an object-oriented language |
| [06:35:32] | wagnerrp: | and im just trying to overoptimize things that dont need to be |
| [06:35:35] | sphery: | so why not use OOP |
| [06:35:42] | sphery: | and not write C code :) |
| [06:35:43] | wagnerrp: | fair enough |
| [06:35:53] | sphery: | that said, tons of MythTV is C code |
| [06:35:58] | sphery: | so, again, feel free to shop around :) |
| [06:36:04] | sphery: | I'm a big believer in objects |
| [06:36:15] | wagnerrp: | im a C/fortran guy |
| [06:36:20] | wagnerrp: | how i got into python, ive got no clue |
| [06:36:25] | sphery: | I also feel that those who claim objects are inefficient don't know how to do OO analysis and design |
| [06:37:02] | sphery: | and I also feel that those who write non-OO code in an OO environment "for performance" make code that's generally less performant and /significantly/ higher maintenance |
| [06:38:47] | sphery: | some places--like the libav* code and other places where someone is going to do heavy manual optimization--can actually benefit from a non-OO design but at the expense of maintainability (but then again, that's why libav* is C and not C++) |
| [06:39:08] | sphery: | many people--especially C++ coders--tend to believe mostly the opposite of what I do, though |
| [06:39:17] | sphery: | so, again, feel free to shop around |
| [06:39:34] | sphery: | (because I would hate for others to refuse your code because you took my advice :) |
| [06:40:25] | wagnerrp: | well im just looking for the best way to do this, since ive not really done this kind of work before |
| [06:40:49] | wagnerrp: | my code involves running a few equations on a huge block of data a crapload of times |
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| [06:50:06] | sphery: | heh, yeah, that's very different from mythtv code :) |
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| [08:29:24] | laga: | Beirdo: nice bike, congrats |
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| [10:12:59] | Diverdude: | Is there any feature in myth-tv which allows some sort of integration with grooveshark or a similar service? I am thinking a music browser/searcher within mythtv which uses some online music-repository which is streamed when selected? |
| [10:24:17] | hashbang: | Diverdude: I don't think so. I imagine that licensing issues will be the hardest part of the problem, e.g. http://www.last.fm/api/radio |
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| [10:24:48] | hashbang: | Diverdude: MythNews will play podcasts, though |
| [10:26:03] | Diverdude: | hashbang, hmmm well yeah but there dont exists soe music service from which you can stream music ? |
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| [10:50:43] | AndyCap: | There's libspotify, but is that at all interesting to build into mythtv? |
| [10:51:59] | AndyCap: | complicated TOS. :/ http://developer.spotify.com/en/libspotify/terms-of-use/ |
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| [11:41:58] | quicksilver: | my IR remote has been damaged. Is there anything to look out for compatibility wise with a new remote or will any IR remote work with my existing receiver? |
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| [13:21:25] | toeb: | is "git clone https://github.com/MythTV/mythweb.git" supposed to work? It seems like there are files missing, (compared to my pre-git version...) |
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| [14:12:12] | hashbang: | toeb: try git clone git://github.com/MythTV/mythweb.git – worked for me over the weekend |
| [14:12:42] | hashbang: | toeb: what files are you missing? |
| [14:13:13] | hashbang: | toeb: oh, and you'll probably then need to do git checkout fixes/0.24; git pull |
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| [14:18:49] | toeb: | hashbang: thx, you are right, i forgot the checkout... |
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| [14:52:51] | wagnerrp: | what do people not understand about 'no new features in -fixes'? |
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| [15:27:56] | hashbang: | wagnerrp: without context, but there'll always be some controversy between what's a "new feature" and what's "merely fixing something that should have worked like this from the start" :-) |
| [15:28:36] | wagnerrp: | this is in reference to some modification to the video editor |
| [15:28:43] | wagnerrp: | that adds a slideshow to the bottom |
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| [15:29:00] | wagnerrp: | to show several frames before and after the current |
| [15:29:07] | wagnerrp: | that is most certainly a 'new feature' |
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| [15:32:01] | hashbang: | wagnerrp: yup, fair enough in that context. :-) |
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| [16:57:47] | toad_: | I upgraded my mythtv during debian upgrade and i had to reinstall the frontend. now the frontend sees no channels, can't do live tv or schedule recordings. however it can still play recorded shows. what's wrong? |
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| [16:59:52] | toad_: | just hoped maybe this is something obvious ... :| |
| [16:59:58] | wagnerrp: | this is a single box? frontend and backend? |
| [17:00:02] | toad_: | two boxes |
| [17:00:13] | wagnerrp: | did you do anything to the backend at the same time? |
| [17:00:16] | toad_: | one dedicated frontend, one beefy server running backend and various other things |
| [17:00:24] | toad_: | yeah it upgraded from 0.23 to 0.24 |
| [17:00:27] | toad_: | on both ends |
| [17:00:36] | toad_: | and i had to purge and reinstall, there was some mess with the database :| |
| [17:00:39] | toad_: | it was a bit of a mess |
| [17:01:06] | wagnerrp: | the backend is running? the tuner cards are visible on the system? mythbackend has permissions for the tuner cards? mythtv has write permissions on the storage drives? |
| [17:01:06] | toad_: | i suppose i should try mythfilldatabase, but that won't work as there are no channels in the local db anyway? |
| [17:01:18] | wagnerrp: | local db? |
| [17:01:18] | toad_: | it used to access mysql on the backend directly, that's one big difference ... |
| [17:01:23] | wagnerrp: | there should only be one database |
| [17:01:24] | toad_: | i mean on the frontend |
| [17:01:31] | wagnerrp: | the frontend should not have its own database |
| [17:01:40] | toad_: | oh? it's supposed to access mysql directly on the backend? then what's the mythtv protocol for? |
| [17:01:50] | toad_: | i have to open BOTH ports? |
| [17:02:18] | ** laga m( ** | |
| [17:02:28] | toad_: | i thought a frontend on another box had its own backend, which then chained to the master backend? the setup stuff talks about master backend vs backend ... |
| [17:02:28] | wagnerrp: | the database is for storage of settings, recording metadata, guide metadata, recording rules, channels, etc... |
| [17:02:40] | wagnerrp: | the protocol is used for control of the backend, and streaming files |
| [17:03:14] | wagnerrp: | backends are only required if you wish to serve files located on that machine, or record off tuners located on that machine |
| [17:03:23] | toad_: | hmmm ok |
| [17:03:35] | toad_: | so you need multiple backends when you have multiple machines with tuners? |
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| [17:03:48] | wagnerrp: | correct, backends are needed anywhere you have tuners |
| [17:03:58] | toad_: | in which case the master backend's recordings are visible to the non-master backends, but not vice versa? |
| [17:04:31] | wagnerrp: | all tuners are shared in a collective pool for use by recordings and livetv |
| [17:04:44] | wagnerrp: | the frontends can access any tuner, or any recording, on any connected backend |
| [17:04:48] | toad_: | okay |
| [17:04:55] | toad_: | so master just means it coordinates things |
| [17:05:03] | toad_: | and you can have any number of boxes with any number of tuners |
| [17:05:07] | wagnerrp: | the master runs the scheduler, and various housekeeper tasks |
| [17:05:12] | toad_: | so you can have some very bizarre setups |
| [17:05:14] | wagnerrp: | besides that, its no different from any other slave backend |
| [17:05:42] | wagnerrp: | yes, there is no hard set limit, but you are limited within reason, due to the performance of the scheduler and database |
| [17:05:45] | toad_: | but if there is only one backend, then all frontends need to connect to its database |
| [17:05:53] | ** toad_ sorts that out ... ** | |
| [17:06:00] | wagnerrp: | there is only one database |
| [17:06:20] | wagnerrp: | all backends, frontends, external bindings, and auxiliary programs all access the since database |
| [17:06:23] | wagnerrp: | s/since/single/ |
| [17:06:26] | toad_: | ah okay |
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| [17:06:50] | toad_: | do you happen to know the syntax for getting mysql to listen on more than one interface? is it a comma delimited list? |
| [17:07:24] | wagnerrp: | no idea, something in mysql.cnf or my.cnf... something like that |
| [17:07:39] | toad_: | | The IP address to bind to. Only one address can be selected. If this option is specified multiple times, the last address given is used. |
| [17:07:42] | toad_: | ARGH, stupid software |
| [17:07:50] | toad_: | oh well, i have iptables :| |
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| [17:08:23] | wagnerrp: | i run my backend and database on freebsd, which defaults to listening on the network |
| [17:08:33] | wagnerrp: | never had to fiddle with that stuff |
| [17:10:22] | toad_: | what's the biggest setup anyone's ever actually used usefully? |
| [17:10:48] | oobe: | you could try 0.0.0.0 |
| [17:10:59] | toad_: | yeah, 0.0.0.0 + iptables :| |
| [17:11:20] | oobe: | probably dont even need iptables |
| [17:11:25] | wagnerrp: | probably this one... http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2004/pulpi . . . _000460.html |
| [17:11:51] | toad_: | ahhh |
| [17:12:09] | toad_: | blatently illegal in the UK, but a good idea otherwise :) |
| [17:12:28] | wagnerrp: | some crazy canuck who set up his own cable system and ISP, licensing the content directly, and providing a shared mythtv system to all his neighbors |
| [17:13:05] | toad_: | the "licensing the content directly" bit is pretty awesome, but surely you'd have to pay the $0.26/mo per seat? |
| [17:13:07] | wagnerrp: | toad_: he set up C-band dishes, and licensed the content directly from the broadcasters |
| [17:13:19] | wagnerrp: | which he then resold to his cable subscribers |
| [17:13:21] | toad_: | | The Discovery Networks, for example, cost me $0.26 per customer per month. |
| [17:13:26] | laga: | that must be expensive?! |
| [17:13:26] | toad_: | right |
| [17:13:27] | laga: | oh god |
| [17:13:54] | toad_: | so there's a sizeable per customer fee, but it will probably be comparable to, maybe cheaper than, the usual satellite packages |
| [17:13:59] | toad_: | awesome |
| [17:15:24] | wagnerrp: | there have been a couple other instances where mythtv gets set up in a hotel, or hospital, or school |
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| [17:18:24] | toad_: | so there are plugins for per-customer limiting? or the owner sets the recordings and expiry and the customers watch what's there? |
| [17:18:48] | toad_: | in the UK the laws are strict on timeshifting – legally you have to delete it immediately after watching it |
| [17:19:01] | wagnerrp: | there is currently no user-mode, customer restriction, or anything of that sort |
| [17:19:17] | wagnerrp: | presumably they are using a modified frontend that prevents such actions |
| [17:19:57] | wagnerrp: | and perhaps some sort of VPN to prevent access to the asecure and non-robust protocol |
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| [17:26:31] | wagnerrp: | big night tonight... 6hrs of recordings |
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| [17:28:41] | wagnerrp: | and 25GB free on my primary disk... this could be a problem |
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| [17:32:21] | _cal_: | wagner: make a ram drive for extra space ;) |
| [17:33:42] | wagnerrp: | nah, dumping a bunch of ISOs onto a spare drive |
| [17:34:19] | wagnerrp: | ive got about 2TB of freespace between different drives and arrays |
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| [18:32:42] | ** wagnerrp wonders why people continue to buy ATVs when their advertised capacity is completely inadequate for mythtv, and their real capacity is unknown ** | |
| [18:33:56] | kormoc: | Because everyone knows Apple is lying and the hardware is awesome, just crippled by the apple software. |
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| [18:34:16] | kormoc: | A atv and a mac mini are the same size, so they must be the same hardware |
| [18:34:38] | wagnerrp: | i dont deny its crippled, but no one except apple knows just how much |
| [18:35:50] | kormoc: | not really |
| [18:35:56] | kormoc: | we know it's the same thing as a GMA500 really |
| [18:36:33] | wagnerrp: | its the same sgx535, but does that really mean its exactly the same performance? |
| [18:36:45] | kormoc: | it's got to be pretty close |
| [18:37:26] | wagnerrp: | i dont know if they have multiple variations on the same name |
| [18:37:36] | wagnerrp: | if thats a specific stamped chip, or if thats a series |
| [18:37:42] | hovr: | Anyone running mythweb fixes/0.24 + lighttpd? I'm having a problem after an upgrade. |
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| [18:38:36] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, the 5xx is a series, the 535 is a specific core that's unchanged afaik |
| [18:38:43] | kormoc: | hovr, unlikely |
| [18:39:49] | hovr: | I'm uncertain it's lighttpd related as other people have experienced it running apache. |
| [18:40:19] | kormoc: | Given we haven't updated mythweb really, if it's new, it's something else |
| [18:40:37] | kormoc: | but feel free to explain and all that jazz |
| [18:41:15] | wagnerrp: | cant really help with just 'somethings not working' |
| [18:41:47] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, well, other people have experienced it, so we should know about it |
| [18:41:58] | hovr: | I'm coming from 0.23 to fixes/0.24. |
| [18:43:17] | kormoc: | and? |
| [18:43:18] | hovr: | Error message here: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/Lj0r4Ci8 |
| [18:43:52] | kormoc: | well, modules_path isn't being defined correctly. This has historically been due to database permission issues or similar |
| [18:44:04] | hovr: | It's been discussed on the mailing list, but nothing suggested has worked. |
| [18:45:44] | hovr: | I did upgrade my OS from debian 5.x to 6.0, including all dependencies. Many updates, which make it difficult. |
| [18:46:45] | hovr: | Same DB, but an upgraded mysql. backend has no issues using the new db. |
| [18:47:20] | kormoc: | and you verified the credentials in the lighthttpd config file are correct for the db? |
| [18:47:31] | hovr: | yes |
| [18:47:50] | kormoc: | then you'll have to figure out how to get lighthttpd to dump debug information |
| [18:48:10] | kormoc: | cause something in the include chain before defines.php is called is breaking |
| [18:49:15] | hovr: | I don't know how to debug lighttpd but I can research it. Is there a way to trace a php script? |
| [18:49:28] | kormoc: | not via lighhttpd afaik |
| [18:50:02] | ToadP (ToadP!~jboyle@69-165-173-15.dsl.teksavvy.com) has quit (Quit: ToadP) | |
| [18:51:38] | hovr: | Can I run mythweb.php using the php cli, and debug it that way? |
| [18:53:10] | kormoc: | no, it won't get the env vars from the lighthttp config |
| [18:56:14] | hovr: | I'll switch to apache and try to get it working. Maybe lighttpd later. |
| [18:57:19] | martin_ (martin_!~quassel@109.228.162.26) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | |
| [18:57:19] | kormoc: | you can use xdebug to get stepwise debugging with php and use that with mythweb to see what's up |
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| [18:57:27] | kormoc: | (with apache) |
| [18:57:28] | noaXess_kubuntu: | hey all |
| [18:58:05] | noaXess_kubuntu: | i defined/saved some custom recordings just as search.. but thy don't appear in recorded programs.. some of the are listed.. |
| [18:59:22] | hovr: | kormoc: thanks for the help. |
| [18:59:25] | noaXess_kubuntu: | or other questions.. where can i edit searches? |
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| [18:59:34] | kormoc: | noaXess_kubuntu, Uhh.. Try to ask that again a bit clearer? |
| [18:59:46] | ** kormoc tips his hat towards hovr ** | |
| [19:00:12] | noaXess_kubuntu: | hm.. if you plan a recording as custom you can save it as example or search... |
| [19:00:36] | noaXess_kubuntu: | if save as search you can show this search in recorded shows as a category |
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| [19:10:13] | sphery: | are people on the Win MCE thread actually saying that HD-PVR recording at 1/4 the bitrate of an MPEG-2 OTA recording is the same quality? |
| [19:10:30] | sphery: | H.264 is /designed/ to give the same quality as MPEG-2 at about 1/2 the bitrate |
| [19:10:33] | sphery: | right? |
| [19:11:16] | wagnerrp: | thats the general idea |
| [19:11:16] | sphery: | Guess quality is only as important as you see it--i.e. if you don't notice the difference, then you might as well assume your 1/4-bitrate recording is same quality (a.k.a. ignorance is bliss?) |
| [19:11:40] | wagnerrp: | of course you can have high quality h264 encoders and low quality mpeg2 encoders |
| [19:11:49] | sphery: | true |
| [19:12:15] | sphery: | and maybe they're going from 720p60 or 1080i30 to 720p24 or whatever? don't know if the HD-PVR can/does that? |
| [19:12:30] | wagnerrp: | i dont think so |
| [19:12:51] | sphery: | ah, and here I thought I could maybe believe that a 1/4-bitrate apple was just as good as an orange |
| [19:12:57] | wagnerrp: | and even then, its still a function of a good mpeg2 encoder that will use pulldown flags instead of actually duplicating frames |
| [19:13:30] | sphery: | true--unless the HD-PVR is just resampling willy-nilly (which was my theory) |
| [19:13:46] | sphery: | otherwise, I don't see you getting that much bitrate savings |
| [19:14:03] | sphery: | anyway, further proof that HDTV quality is generally much greater than it needs to be |
| [19:14:13] | wagnerrp: | honestly, the FOX affiliate around here (or the cableco recompression of such) uses a pretty impressive encoder |
| [19:14:29] | sphery: | of course, users demand direct digital recording of HDTV because they *know* the D->A->D conversion of the HD-PVR will lose them quality |
| [19:14:52] | wagnerrp: | ive seen fairly high motion 720p60 down below 8mbps with very little macroblocking or fuzzing |
| [19:15:00] | sphery: | and everyone knows that cable-company encoding/redistribution is /much/ worse quality than OTA |
| [19:15:04] | wagnerrp: | meanwhile the local CBS affiliate is awful |
| [19:15:13] | sphery: | therefore, there's no reason to actually check these things |
| [19:15:31] | sphery: | and no room for subjective/perceptive verification before refusing perfectly good solutions |
| [19:15:36] | noaXess_kubuntu: | i have a lot of recorded shows that i can't delet.. i saw now that all of the has recgroup = LiveTV... is there a way to remove them? |
| [19:15:59] | sphery: | noaXess_kubuntu: wait 'til tomorrow and they'll be gone? |
| [19:16:28] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: they are there since month.. |
| [19:16:41] | noaXess_kubuntu: | eg. one from 25.11.10 |
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| [19:16:53] | sphery: | unless you're missing the files, in which case, go to Watch Recordings, MENU|Change Group Filter|Live TV, then http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Q . . . t_on_disk.3F |
| [19:18:29] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: i can't cahnge to LiveTV.. hm.. |
| [19:18:42] | noaXess_kubuntu: | can't change to group LiveTV ^ |
| [19:19:02] | sphery: | "can't change" = ???? |
| [19:19:07] | sphery: | no Live TV in the group list? |
| [19:19:13] | sphery: | nothing happens when you try? |
| [19:19:26] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: yes.. no group nme LiveTV.. |
| [19:19:42] | sphery: | what makes you think all these recordings are in the Live TV group? |
| [19:20:08] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: if i press M and then "Gruppe wechseln" german for change group i think.. i can just select all or categories |
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| [19:21:06] | sphery: | Change Group Filter != Change Group View |
| [19:21:07] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: checked in table recorded on mysqldb. and i know how to work with mysql.. just made a select.. :) |
| [19:21:15] | sphery: | that said, I don't know my German well enough to know which you selected |
| [19:21:30] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: you mean just show LiveTV.. and no others? |
| [19:21:52] | noaXess_kubuntu: | see.. |
| [19:21:54] | sphery: | if it's a screen with checkboxes, it's the wrong one |
| [19:22:15] | sphery: | if it's a list of group names, categories, and such, it's the right one |
| [19:22:32] | sphery: | and if it doesn't have Live TV in it, you likely need to upgrade to a newer fixes version |
| [19:22:34] | kormoc: | sphery, my cable box will dump out in 1080, 720, 480, or floating. So I could set it up to dump out in 720 only and the hdpvr would only get 720 |
| [19:22:43] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: got it |
| [19:22:47] | sphery: | but looking to see when the fix went in (and to which branches) |
| [19:23:01] | kormoc: | sphery, that said, I just can't see a difference between OTA and my quarter bitrate hdpvr recordings. |
| [19:23:16] | sphery: | kormoc: ah, yeah... so the STB resamples willy-nilly and the HD-PVR compresses what it's given |
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| [19:23:36] | kormoc: | Yeah |
| [19:23:45] | MMlosh: | justinh, I installed the mythbuntu-repositories... shall I choose .23 or .24? |
| [19:23:46] | sphery: | but it's doing 720p60 output? |
| [19:23:52] | sphery: | or something different? |
| [19:23:59] | kormoc: | Aye, it can be locked to that |
| [19:24:06] | sphery: | hmmm |
| [19:24:11] | kormoc: | I run floating, but I tried the locking stuff |
| [19:24:20] | sphery: | anyway, I think it's more a "can't tell the difference" than "same quality" thing |
| [19:24:24] | kormoc: | yeah |
| [19:24:35] | kormoc: | which is functionally the same :) |
| [19:24:44] | sphery: | and the hypocrisy is that these guys are saying to record local channels OTA since the cable co will recompress to reduce quality |
| [19:24:56] | sphery: | but, whatever |
| [19:25:06] | kormoc: | heh, yeah... |
| [19:25:08] | eNeRGi (eNeRGi!~nrgizer@cs78235252.pp.htv.fi) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | |
| [19:25:16] | kormoc: | I actually use the hdpvr first over my OTA stuff |
| [19:25:35] | sphery: | just think it's funny how bent out of shape people get when you tell them they're getting something that's lower quality than the original--even when they can't tell the diff |
| [19:25:48] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: seems that this old LiveTV recordings going to be deleted automatically now.. don't know why not earlier.. |
| [19:26:13] | sphery: | for me, however, I fully recognize my ears can't distinguish between much of anything, so I've never put any effort into getting quality sound repro |
| [19:26:43] | sphery: | noaXess_kubuntu: "now" meaning after going into that screen? |
| [19:26:45] | kormoc: | yeah |
| [19:26:49] | sphery: | noaXess_kubuntu: are you using MythTV 0.24? |
| [19:26:58] | nutron-home (nutron-home!~dserban@S0106001346beb5f3.ok.shawcable.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) | |
| [19:27:01] | kormoc: | my elcheapo tv speakers are plenty good |
| [19:27:10] | kormoc: | standard headphone jack and cable |
| [19:27:22] | sphery: | if so, that's likely the why--it has a fix for an issue with Live TV, where some users got recordings wth spaces in their recording group names... |
| [19:27:28] | kormoc: | screw the optical, screw the HD audio crap, etc |
| [19:27:33] | sphery: | (might have been backported to 0.23-fixes, but I don't remember) |
| [19:27:43] | sphery: | kormoc: yeah, same here |
| [19:27:44] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: now means after enabling LiveTV in the watch recording list.. |
| [19:27:48] | noaXess_kubuntu: | i user 0.23.1 |
| [19:27:53] | noaXess_kubuntu: | use ^ |
| [19:28:46] | sphery: | noaXess_kubuntu: ah, yeah, it's in 0.23-fixes, too |
| [19:28:59] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: seem so.. |
| [19:28:59] | sphery: | anyway, glad they're cleaning up, now |
| [19:29:21] | noaXess_kubuntu: | other question.. i created a custom search and saved it just as search.. but i can't see it in watch recordings.. |
| [19:29:43] | noaXess_kubuntu: | searches are enabled in the group filter of watch recordings |
| [19:30:08] | sphery: | yeah, I think that was (is?) broken for a while |
| [19:30:10] | noaXess_kubuntu: | or searchqueries... don't know how to translate... my frontend is german ;) |
| [19:30:14] | noaXess_kubuntu: | suchabfragen |
| [19:30:33] | noaXess_kubuntu: | and the saved search, where can i reedit it? |
| [19:31:09] | sphery: | wherever you created it? |
| [19:31:16] | sphery: | just select it from the list that pops up when you go bck |
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| [19:31:46] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: no... if i plan a recording, custom recording.. i can save it as search.. just as search |
| [19:32:07] | sphery: | Manage Recordings|Schedule Recordings|... searches stuff |
| [19:32:11] | sphery: | then find it, edit |
| [19:32:50] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: sorry.. can't find it.. |
| [19:33:14] | Beirdo: | !seen high-rez |
| [19:33:14] | MythLogBot: | high-rez was last seen 22 days 1 hour 22 minutes 9 seconds ago |
| [19:34:38] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: i see that my search is just saved as example.. |
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| [19:37:32] | sphery: | noaXess_kubuntu: ah, then it's an example for Manage Recordings|Schedule Recordings|Custom <something or another> (or is it "Power <something or another>"?) |
| [19:37:45] | sphery: | I've never used the saved searches |
| [19:39:14] | noaXess_kubuntu: | sphery: i see.. hm.... so in you watch recordings list you see just categories? |
| [19:40:14] | sphery: | yeah, All Programs, recgroups, then categories |
| [19:47:57] | sphery: | wagnerrp: huh, the ATV2 won't play full-bitrate OTA ATSC recordings? I thought that "Apple-designed" CPU was a miracle that was about to put Intel out of business... |
| [19:48:42] | ** sphery wonders, if that's the case, what's an A4 ** | |
| [19:50:00] | sphery: | "as far as I can tell, .24 + fixes is the worst release of mythtv in ages." |
| [19:50:10] | sphery: | quick, everyone, go back to 0.18.1!!! |
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| [19:51:27] | kenni: | heh, sphery, where did you get that quote from? |
| [19:51:29] | _cal_: | sphery: i was actually kinda feeling the same, until you had me run the latest updates from the last couple weeks. much better now. |
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| [19:53:29] | hovr: | kormoc: got mythweb working! |
| [19:53:39] | kormoc: | What was it? |
| [19:54:32] | hovr: | You were right, db issue with modules_path not being defined. It was a lighttpd config file issue. |
| [19:55:22] | wagnerrp: | sphery: in theory, the SGX535 should be able to play HD MPEG2 up to and including at least that content on bluray (so 36mbps) |
| [19:55:37] | wagnerrp: | but apple itself does not allow mpeg2 decoding on that platform at all |
| [19:55:55] | kenni: | unfortunately I have to partly agree to that quote. I've just had way too many issues lately in 0.24-fixes, not good for waf :-/ |
| [19:56:26] | hovr: | So, thanks again, you pointed me in the right direction. |
| [19:56:46] | sphery: | SGX535 is the video part in the ATV2? |
| [19:56:57] | wagnerrp: | sphery: and to be honest, that comment by belcampo about playing remuxed blurays is the first mention if seen of performance using legitimately acquired video |
| [19:57:19] | iamlindoro: | kenni: Don't recall you opening any tickets? |
| [19:57:32] | wagnerrp: | everything on the xbmc forums is just about whether people can play their downloaded 1080p movies |
| [19:57:39] | sphery: | kenni: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/472013#472013 |
| [19:57:54] | wagnerrp: | sphery: yeah, the A4 uses the same powervr chip as the GMA500 stuff |
| [19:58:02] | sphery: | IMHO, the only real issue in 0.24 was Live TV, and that's now fixed |
| [19:58:34] | iamlindoro: | sphery: Someone should mention that recording functionality has changed in exactly 0 ways between .22, .23, and .24 |
| [19:58:42] | sphery: | and, I'm pretty certain, Live TV in 0.24-fixes is fixed /far/ better than it has ever been in any previous release of MythTV since the major Live TV rewrite |
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| [19:58:50] | sphery: | iamlindoro: yeah, should have mentioned that |
| [19:59:07] | iamlindoro: | sphery: But that all the people madly upgrading their kernels and distros when they upgrade might have juuuust a few other moving parts that might be to blame |
| [19:59:28] | sphery: | iamlindoro: yeah, I said exactly that |
| [19:59:34] | sphery: | just replied to the thread |
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| [20:01:05] | wagnerrp: | sphery: if it had more memory, and the poulsbo drivers were open source such that someone could rejigger them to work on the new chip, it would have actually been an interesting alternative to the IONs |
| [20:01:27] | kenni: | iamlindoro: I sent a bt to mark yesterday, uploaded a sample to -dev today, made mark aware of the subtitle sync issues with vdpaubuffers a fw weeks ago on -users, and I still have a issues with the audio buffer underrun, which I chatted with jya about, and which now has an active thread on -users |
| [20:01:28] | sphery: | interesting |
| [20:01:39] | sphery: | even with the A4 being just an ARM Cortex A7? |
| [20:01:50] | Finswimmer: | Hello, I have a weird problem. In EPG a film starts at e.g. 10.30. In upcoming it is also shown an 10.30. but in reality it is recorded at 10.36. Where could I try to debug? |
| [20:01:51] | iamlindoro: | kenni: So that's a "no, I haven't opened any tickets," then? |
| [20:01:55] | sphery: | er, Cortex A8, it seems |
| [20:02:08] | wagnerrp: | sphery: A8 or Atom, youre not going to be doing video decoding on it either way |
| [20:02:17] | sphery: | good point |
| [20:02:31] | sphery: | so might as well go for the one that does power savings well? :) |
| [20:02:41] | kenni: | iamlindoro: no, that's a "have given relevant feedback to the developers in question" |
| [20:02:55] | iamlindoro: | kenni: right, so no tickets then. Just checking. |
| [20:03:02] | kenni: | no tickets :) |
| [20:03:34] | iamlindoro: | kenni: Just making a point that little mentioned to me without a ticket ever gets solved, and I daresay JYA and markk are busy enough that things can fall through the cracks for them too |
| [20:03:36] | wagnerrp: | sphery: yeah, youre looking at 5W consumption and $100 price tag, instead of 25W and $250 |
| [20:03:49] | wagnerrp: | and theyre equally limited in capability |
| [20:03:49] | sphery: | nice |
| [20:03:58] | sphery: | yep, makes sense |
| [20:04:29] | wagnerrp: | and the best part? the AC power supply is internal |
| [20:04:42] | sphery: | nice |
| [20:04:47] | wagnerrp: | instead of all these stupid Atom nettops with an external brick just as large as the device itself |
| [20:04:52] | sphery: | but, wait, Apple is always expensive |
| [20:04:59] | sphery: | so this must be a cheap knock-off |
| [20:05:33] | wagnerrp: | ive seen speculation that the chip is artificially limited so far partially for power concerns |
| [20:05:52] | sphery: | I will admit that A8 is a nice chip |
| [20:06:00] | wagnerrp: | be interested to see if these XBMC users start to have overheating problems |
| [20:06:07] | wagnerrp: | or if they fail from lack of power |
| [20:06:14] | sphery: | but I don't have any comparison against x86 |
| [20:06:32] | sphery: | xbmc users running on ATV2? |
| [20:06:52] | wagnerrp: | yeah, you didnt see any of the news about that a month ago? |
| [20:06:59] | kenni: | iamlindoro: sure, I always create tickets when it makes sense – but in these cases, the developers was already working on it (mark fixed it immediately) or for the buffer underrun issue, I was told that there was no bug, just a problem with my system. "Luckily" it seems like more people are having the same issue now, so hopefully the -users thread will have a positive outcome in the end |
| [20:07:05] | sphery: | no, must have hit my filter :) |
| [20:07:26] | wagnerrp: | yeah, apple several restricts the video decode performance when accessing it using the documented VDA |
| [20:07:56] | wagnerrp: | but one of their devs found some undocumented 'videotoolkit' which allows those restrictions to be bypassed |
| [20:08:33] | iamlindoro: | kenni: So in at least one case you got an immediate response and a fix, and as a Myth dev you theoretically should have been testing leading up to the release and could have headed these issues off beforehand... anyway, just minor frustration when devs want to the privileges of development, but want to make demands like users. |
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| [20:14:08] | kenni: | iamlindoro: I don't see myself as a developer, I'm a translator. I'm sorry, but every time I try to help with something, like ticket triage, I get reminded that I'm nothing but a user. Perhaps that's the reason why I start acting more userish? |
| [20:14:27] | kenni: | anyway, this is getting too personal for this channel IMHO |
| [20:14:41] | iamlindoro: | Who has ever called you nothing but a user? |
| [20:15:10] | iamlindoro: | I very much doubt those exact words have ever been spoken, and they certainly haven't ever been by me |
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| [20:26:12] | sphery: | kenni: fwiw, we're all just users of the player--with the exceptions being mar kk and elmojo and, to lesser extent, lately, danielk |
| [20:26:58] | sphery: | but I don't think anyone thinks of you as "just a user" (or even "just a translator") |
| [20:27:06] | iamlindoro: | I definitely don't |
| [20:27:14] | iamlindoro: | Neither as a user nor as a translator :) |
| [20:27:22] | iamlindoro: | I consider kenni a dev, and a valuable one |
| [20:30:19] | sphery: | agreed |
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| [20:43:30] | justinh: | btw MMlosh I don't live in this channel anymore – well not as much as I used to certainly – so please bug somebody else |
| [20:43:55] | justinh: | or better yet, just ask questions posed to *the* *whole* *channel* |
| [20:44:01] | justinh: | I am not your personal help slave |
| [20:44:05] | iamlindoro: | justinh: ping, can you please help me with my local changes to blootube-glasshem-wide? |
| [20:44:21] | iamlindoro: | Want to add an icon for my torrent client |
| [20:44:21] | iamlindoro: | ne |
| [20:44:21] | iamlindoro: | ed |
| [20:44:24] | justinh: | yeh sure |
| [20:44:24] | iamlindoro: | you original SVGs |
| [20:44:25] | iamlindoro: | thanks |
| [20:44:30] | iamlindoro: | ;) |
| [20:44:37] | MMlosh: | justinh, it looked as if you were? oh .. i didn't want that |
| [20:45:18] | justinh: | iamlindoro: oh dear it appears as though the original files are all in .PSP format |
| [20:45:24] | MMlosh: | sound I need to ask everybody in the middle of any conversations to prevent such cases |
| [20:45:29] | justinh: | too bad :P |
| [20:45:45] | iamlindoro: | justinh: heh |
| [20:48:30] | kwmonroe (kwmonroe!~kwmonroe@32.97.110.64) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| [20:49:55] | unixSnob (unixSnob!~unixSnob@212.117.169.230) has quit (Quit: leaving) | |
| [20:50:24] | justinh: | iamlindoro: you really aren't a big fan of the competition are you? ;-) |
| [20:51:06] | iamlindoro: | justinh: That's me, always trying to stifle innovation |
| [20:51:08] | iamlindoro: | hehe |
| [20:51:45] | sphery: | /nick iamMS |
| [20:51:52] | sphery: | oops... I didn't say that |
| [20:52:37] | justinh: | sorry didn't mean 'competition'... ;-) |
| [20:53:19] | sphery: | iamlindoro: heh, maybe it's just the kernel's USB layer :) |
| [20:53:30] | justinh: | I mean fab dvr vs networked player of MKV files acquired via P2P |
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| [20:54:40] | justinh: | might just be able to upgrade to 0.24 soon – bedroom is almost finished – redecorating that has taken WAY too long |
| [20:54:44] | sphery: | guess USB layer wouldn't explain problems with HVR-1600 or 2250 |
| [20:58:51] | iamlindoro: | I can't send to theming no matter what I try |
| [20:58:57] | iamlindoro: | the channel, not the list |
| [20:59:02] | iamlindoro: | Just keeps telling me I can't |
| [20:59:04] | iamlindoro: | oh well |
| [20:59:15] | justinh: | I had that. needed to msg nickserv |
| [21:00:29] | justinh: | btw thanks to the firewall at work I'm getting ready to fall off the wagon again :-) |
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| [21:06:46] | justinh: | aha! finally a show is picked up as 'inuse' |
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| [21:43:22] | sphery: | wow, so they finally chased the riff-raff out of #mythtv-theming |
| [21:43:27] | iamlindoro (iamlindoro!~iamlindor@c-71-202-67-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has quit (Changing host) | |
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| [21:43:27] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v iamlindoro | |
| [21:43:58] | ** sphery thinks iamlindoro likely missed that comment ** | |
| [21:44:14] | iamlindoro: | nope |
| [21:44:15] | iamlindoro: | I |
| [21:44:15] | iamlindoro: | |
| [21:44:16] | iamlindoro: | w |
| [21:44:16] | iamlindoro: | sa |
| [21:44:16] | iamlindoro: | w |
| [21:44:17] | iamlindoro: | y |
| [21:44:17] | iamlindoro: | |
| [21:44:22] | iamlindoro: | damn keyboard |
| [21:44:24] | iamlindoro: | I saw it |
| [21:44:52] | sphery: | heh, no wonder they removed your voice in #-theming ;) |
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| [21:54:25] | sphery: | wagnerrp: heh, lol: 02.14 16:47:24 < wagnerrp> how could you possibly consider building a home theater application without netflix support??? |
| [21:55:07] | wagnerrp: | wasnt there a recent post to the mailing list to that effect? |
| [21:55:47] | sphery: | yep, exactly |
| [21:55:51] | mianos: | true |
| [21:55:52] | sphery: | in the MCE thread |
| [21:56:06] | mianos: | and an audio streamer |
| [21:56:20] | wagnerrp: | we stream audio, over upnp and mythweb |
| [21:56:47] | noaXess_kubuntu (noaXess_kubuntu!~chatzilla@gw.ptr-80-238-209-47.customer.ch.netstream.com) has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101206122310]) | |
| [21:56:52] | iamlindoro: | I love that even when we're joking about it, there's still going to be a user in here who thinks we're serious |
| [21:57:15] | mianos: | i'd love that exclusive access audio thing fixed in squeezeslave |
| [21:57:57] | sphery: | wagnerrp: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/471631#471631 |
| [21:58:09] | sphery: | complete with his non-quoting mess |
| [21:59:04] | sphery: | "How could you NOT build support for Netflix (only the biggest player in streaming movies) into Myth?" |
| [21:59:10] | wagnerrp: | he is quoting, dont you see that line where his message starts? |
| [21:59:15] | mianos: | license? |
| [21:59:24] | mianos: | does it work with the browser? |
| [21:59:28] | sphery: | heh, well, bad quoting, I should say |
| [21:59:29] | mianos: | we don't have it down under |
| [21:59:46] | sphery: | mianos: Windows/Mac OS X only |
| [21:59:54] | Ryushin (Ryushin!proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) has quit (Quit: Client exiting) | |
| [21:59:55] | wagnerrp: | mianos: netflix uses silverlight, silverlight is not available under linux |
| [21:59:56] | kormoc: | ugh |
| [21:59:58] | sphery: | not for "alternate" OS's |
| [22:00:00] | kormoc: | that thread needs to die |
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| [22:04:34] | justinh: | man you guys so need to get netflix support or I am walking away |
| [22:04:41] | Unhelpful (Unhelpful!~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [22:04:47] | Unhelpful: | haven't used mythtv in ages, and i'm trying to set it up on a new system. mythtv has appropriate GRANTs on mythconverg, but it hangs filling the initial DB. -v database shows *no* queries executed after it gets the schema lock, it just prints 'Upgrading to MythTV schema version 1226' and then sits.. this is mythtv v0.24 on arch linux. any ideas? |
| [22:05:05] | justinh: | what -v database? |
| [22:05:08] | kormoc: | Unhelpful, pastebin the log? |
| [22:05:16] | justinh: | like mythbackend -v database? |
| [22:05:21] | justinh: | mythtv-setup -v database? |
| [22:05:21] | martin__ (martin__!~quassel@109.228.162.26) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | |
| [22:06:17] | sphery: | Unhelpful: blank DB? IIRC, there's an issue with initial schema creation on some (all?) versions of MythTV 0.24 |
| [22:06:38] | Unhelpful: | justinh: that's the behavior whether i run mythbackend or mythtv-setup – i tried mythbackend in case it was some mythtv-setup issue. |
| [22:06:49] | sphery: | Unhelpful: any chance you can set up a different system with mythbuntu 0.23 or something, then have it create the initial schema, then back that up and restore it to your real 0.24 system? |
| [22:07:08] | sphery: | mythbuntu 0.23 = mythbuntu 10.04 or 10.10, but without upgrading to 0.24 |
| [22:07:20] | wagnerrp: | sphery: we should probably consider doing a database rollup prior to each major release |
| [22:07:33] | sphery: | wagnerrp: I'm doing one before this release |
| [22:07:48] | wagnerrp: | doesnt 0.24 start out with schema 1160 or something? |
| [22:08:00] | sphery: | the problem isn't the DB rollup, though, it's the UI/schema wizard/changes to the initial startup that don't get tested with new-db creation |
| [22:08:13] | sphery: | I /think/ it was working fine for 0.24, but has been broken by fixes |
| [22:08:14] | Unhelpful: | wagnerrp: don't know, it never actually creates any tables other than for schema lock. |
| [22:08:31] | sphery: | wagnerrp: 1226, IIRC |
| [22:09:11] | sphery: | which was after 0.21 (and, after UTF-8 convo) |
| [22:09:19] | sphery: | conver, I guess |
| [22:09:24] | wagnerrp: | yeah, dbcheck says 1226 |
| [22:09:39] | sphery: | yeah, initial schema creation works on unstable |
| [22:09:50] | sphery: | I just haven't had a chance to dig into 0.24-fixes to find the issue |
| [22:09:51] | wagnerrp: | the UTF stuff was 1216 |
| [22:09:58] | sphery: | right |
| [22:10:23] | sphery: | the DB rollup isn't really that important--mainly, it just prevents new users from seeing, "upgrading to schema XXXX" |
| [22:10:53] | sphery: | but I'm going to do it this time, and--if I can get permission--include ENGINE in it |
| [22:10:59] | Unhelpful: | i'll try to build 0.23 ;) |
| [22:11:15] | Unhelpful: | it's fairly easy on a ports-style distribution |
| [22:11:17] | wagnerrp: | meh, i just think its messy to create it, and then immediately have to update it several dozen revisions |
| [22:11:19] | sphery: | and, if I can get permission, I'm removing all the IF NOT EXISTS garbage |
| [22:11:27] | wagnerrp: | engine? what do you intend to switch to? |
| [22:11:40] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah, agreed, it's not pretty--just not that important |
| [22:11:49] | sphery: | MyISAM, of course |
| [22:12:08] | sphery: | the only one we officially support :) |
| [22:12:38] | sphery: | once we come up with a plan, we can switch to InnoDB or variant, but I think we need to coordinate with distros since many of them disable InnoDB to save 40MB RAM |
| [22:12:41] | sphery: | (seriously) |
| [22:12:49] | sphery: | and not necessarily physical RAM |
| [22:12:58] | kormoc: | sphery, just do the ENGINE= stuff |
| [22:13:01] | Unhelpful: | 40MB. that is an amount that matters? :( |
| [22:13:09] | Twiggy2cents (Twiggy2cents!~darren@66.87.6.98) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) | |
| [22:13:11] | kormoc: | sphery, if someone wants to use innodb, they should be able to swap engines |
| [22:13:38] | sphery: | kormoc: makes sense... just figured I'd be better off getting consensus before doing so |
| [22:13:48] | kormoc: | Unhelpful, we get people in here from time to time fighting over evilwm vs twm vs ratpoision to save a few K of ram.... |
| [22:14:04] | sphery: | where RatPoison takes 300kB |
| [22:14:16] | sphery: | and some say that running with no WM is better |
| [22:14:20] | wagnerrp: | hey now, its a few dozens of K, get your orders of magnitude correct |
| [22:14:24] | sphery: | because, obviously, that 300kB is important |
| [22:15:12] | sphery: | I believe those who run X on a MythTV system without a Window Manager should be given rat poison. |
| [22:15:26] | sphery: | unless they agree to RatPoison, that is |
| [22:16:12] | sphery: | Unhelpful: what distro are you on? chances are you could just install some packages |
| [22:16:16] | sphery: | even if it's just to get an initial db |
| [22:16:17] | Unhelpful: | ...or, you know, don't install X anything and ssh -Y to it ;) |
| [22:16:35] | sphery: | yeah, just X libs is fine |
| [22:16:37] | sphery: | for a backend |
| [22:16:40] | Unhelpful: | sphery: arch. old packages tend to only be on out-of-date mirrors. one of my few gripes about it, really. |
| [22:16:49] | sphery: | but some run X with no WM on their frontend systems |
| [22:16:54] | sphery: | where they're actually using X |
| [22:17:09] | sphery: | ahhh |
| [22:17:32] | ** sphery considers actually debugging -fixes init schema creation tonight ** | |
| [22:17:35] | Unhelpful: | but... agh, if you want to use *anything* that launches another app (i'm thinking external players) you *need* a WM :P |
| [22:17:58] | sphery: | (currently, my dev box disk is being moved to a "new" RMA-return HDD) |
| [22:18:02] | wagnerrp: | well, were likely getting rid of external players, so.... |
| [22:18:08] | Unhelpful: | anyway, it's easier to just edit the PKGBUILD to change the version, since i can't stick by this right now, anyway. |
| [22:18:16] | sphery: | Unhelpful: yeah, if you use windows, you should use a window manager |
| [22:18:34] | Unhelpful: | wagnerrp: and mythgame incorporpates all emulators, now? |
| [22:18:41] | sphery: | and even if you don't use external players, you still use windows |
| [22:18:44] | sphery: | yeah |
| [22:18:51] | wagnerrp: | Unhelpful: forgot about that one |
| [22:19:03] | sphery: | plus, in general, people will bring up <random app> occasionally |
| [22:19:39] | johd (johd!~johd@90.146.55.47) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) | |
| [22:19:46] | ** Unhelpful tries to think of other ways you can have the mythtv window lose focus... ** | |
| [22:21:34] | ** Unhelpful also assumes mythtv will have usable blu-ray support before anything else does (iirc it beat most other players to decent dvd menu support, but it's been a while so i may not rc) ** | |
| [22:22:13] | iamlindoro: | We already have usable blu-ray support |
| [22:22:22] | Unhelpful: | see! ;) |
| [22:22:57] | sphery: | speaking of my RMA-return HDD, I wonder how safe my assumption that Seagate ensured the 7200.11 1.5TB HDD they sent me has the proper/working firmware on it |
| [22:24:56] | kormoc: | I'd like to believe very, but I doubt |
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| [22:38:17] | sphery: | hmm, well it's a working firmware--don't know whether that's due to diligence on their part or blind luck :) |
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| [23:01:41] | sphery: | heh: [mythtv-users] Frontend, strange CPU usage |
| [23:04:14] | justinh: | no opengl, I'll wager |
| [23:09:10] | sphery: | could be part of it |
| [23:09:36] | sphery: | I think it's just the very-high animation rate coupled with bad timer implementations/usage |
| [23:10:19] | justinh: | heh death to alphapulse |
| [23:13:13] | Technophil (Technophil!~David@222-153-24-33.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #mythtv-users | |
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| [23:29:44] | jams: | sphery- did you do the change hostname code in the mythrestore.pl script? |
| [23:30:39] | Unhelpful: | ok! i was able to load the mysql from the ubuntu 0.23 package and then upgrade it :D |
| [23:31:09] | sphery: | jams: yeah |
| [23:31:40] | sphery: | Unhelpful: cool, sorry about the trouble--I really do intend to fix the problem, but it's a pain to switch everything over to 0.24-fixes on my dev box to be able to start debugging it |
| [23:31:42] | jams: | mind checking my c++ code to make sure it got translated correct |
| [23:31:43] | jams: | ly |
| [23:33:00] | sphery: | If only writing a high-quality, luxury DVR were as easy as all the pundits on the -users list claim it is |
| [23:34:06] | LedHed (LedHed!~LedHed@static-74-45-162-66.dr01.pasn.ca.frontiernet.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving) | |
| [23:38:06] | Unhelpful: | aw, crap. well, i won't be recording anything tonight, anyway. :/ |
| [23:38:32] | Unhelpful: | it looks as though the power supply for my HDHomeRun has failed – power adaptor light is blinking. |
| [23:59:09] | sphery: | so you only got to HDFirstBase, today... :( |
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