Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, December 10th, 2010, 00:01 UTC

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sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, perfect post on the mac mini

[00:27:13]

sphery:

and the playon post

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wagnerrp:

sphery: well i just got PMd by the mythicallibrarian guy

[00:50:08]

wagnerrp:

seems he was doing a search for his program on google and found some irc logs of me complaining about his script

[00:50:59]

wagnerrp:

i kinda feel bad about complaining behind his back, but then when i tried to urge him to something other than bash straight to him

[00:51:14]

wagnerrp:

and show the ease of (languages other than bash) straight to him

[00:51:24]

wagnerrp:

they didnt really take

[00:51:45]

sphery:

:(

[00:51:52]

iamlindoro:

It's not behind his back. If you release something into the public, people can and will complain about it when it sucks, or when they perceive it to suck

[00:51:57]

iamlindoro:

Nobody knows better than I

[00:52:06]

iamlindoro:

but it's definitively *not* behind his back

[00:52:11]

sphery:

I'm pretty sure in those logs it also has you mentioning that you tried to convince him to use other, better approaches, too

[00:52:12]

wagnerrp:

so i went into some several paragraph essay on how modular languages make the world so much easier

[00:52:16]

wagnerrp:

well see what happens

[00:52:28]

iamlindoro:

If you throw up a sign saying "look at what I did," then you need to be ready for people to do so

[00:52:38]

wagnerrp:

like ive said before, ive got no specific problem with bash

[00:52:46]

iamlindoro:

when it's the right tool for the job

[00:52:58]

wagnerrp:

i just have a problem with people using bash for applications that requires then to run hundreds of instances of external command line utilities

[00:53:00]

sphery:

well, maybe I just need to hurry the constantly-changing-target of recordedfile schema changes along :)

[00:53:09]

sphery:

then he'll start to believe the power of the bindings

[00:53:17]

wagnerrp:

hes already using the bindings

[00:53:32]

wagnerrp:

he wrote some helper application to dump the information to a temporary text file

[00:53:42]

wagnerrp:

which he could then load into his bash script

[00:53:51]

sphery:

ah, so bash + bindings + random binaries on system

[00:54:38]

sphery:

fun

[00:54:41]

wagnerrp:

well i suggested he rewrite it in perl/python/php/ruby/something-else-with-loadable-modules

[00:55:11]

wagnerrp:

have his core program exist only to dump data into xbmc, use loadable modules to import from whatever backend recorder he wants

[00:55:24]

wagnerrp:

and _stop_using_temp_files

[00:56:06]

wagnerrp:

i mean i understand scripting languages in general are not a bastion of performance

[00:56:27]

wagnerrp:

but when something you write causes the PID counter to tick away a few thousand marks, i just think theres something wrong there

[00:58:02]

sphery:

heh

[01:01:07]

wagnerrp:

speaking of 'right tool', git-python sucks

[01:01:23]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: im just going to try to adapt your script to pull the rest of the commit information

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Beirdo:

cool

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** wagnerrp is completely lost looking at this **

[01:14:12]

sphery:

is his script perl?

[01:15:10]

wagnerrp:

yeah, just the whole regular expression search syntax is... foreign

[01:15:27]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[01:15:34]

wagnerrp:

i know what its doing, its just in a completely different format than im used to

[01:15:58]

sphery:

powerful, but requires daily use or lots of reading/testing to figure out

[01:16:18]

sphery:

it's actually easiest to start from nothing and work up to what you want--so reviewing existing code is very tough

[01:16:21]

wagnerrp:

im not even talking about the regex itself, just the syntax for using them

[01:16:27]

sphery:

ahhh

[01:16:38]

wagnerrp:

while (( $log =~ <regex> ))

[01:16:40]

wagnerrp:

funky

[01:17:12]

wagnerrp:

i would prefer...

[01:17:38]

wagnerrp:

for $match in compiled_regex.searchall($log)

[01:18:01]

wagnerrp:

longer, sure... but definately more explicit about what is going on

[01:19:12]

sphery:

yeah, perl makes no qualms about trading clarity for fewer characters

[01:19:33]

wagnerrp:

thats what has always turned me off perl in the past

[01:19:57]

wagnerrp:

if you look at code without already knowing the language, it just looks like gook

[01:20:02]

sphery:

yeah

[01:20:44]

sphery:

and even if you know the language, you may still have to spend a lot of time analyzing the code to figure out exactly what's happening

[01:21:11]

sphery:

since it's easy to make the code very hard to follow

[01:21:20]

wagnerrp:

the thing is like an obfuscaters paradise

[01:21:57]

sphery:

heh, yeah

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wagnerrp:

and... i dont know enough perl to fudge my way through this, back to python

[01:33:41]

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[01:47:38]

awalls:

Perl is a write only language. ;)

[01:48:25]

** awalls does like to use perl and awk for quick and dirty stuff **

[01:49:43]

wagnerrp:

do you loop through and run awk hundreds of times?

[01:50:12]

awalls:

No awk loops on every line

[01:50:20]

** kormoc wonders why one would shell to awk from perl **

[01:50:24]

awalls:

So does perl -n

[01:50:52]

awalls:

One would not

[01:51:45]

** awalls goes back to read the irc log **

[01:52:48]

wagnerrp:

awalls: someone just called me on my frequent rants on excessively long bash scripts

[01:52:59]

wagnerrp:

asked me why i kept complaining about his program on IRC

[01:53:05]

sphery:

heh, that's one way to up my commit count

[01:53:10]

wagnerrp:

?

[01:53:28]

wagnerrp:

oh, one character commits

[01:53:48]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, called?

[01:54:11]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: PMd me on mythtvtalk

[01:54:16]

awalls:

Bash is tough to get things done in. More power to you if you can

[01:54:17]

sphery:

yeah, 2 of them :)

[01:54:21]

wagnerrp:

'called out'

[01:54:40]

kormoc:

zhh

[01:54:54]

wagnerrp:

awalls: sure, but why would you want to

[01:55:08]

wagnerrp:

bash is fine for short things where its actually faster to write than a more powerful language

[01:55:12]

sphery:

I started the DB backup/restore scripts in bash

[01:55:22]

sphery:

got to a point where I realized that bash was the wrong language

[01:55:28]

sphery:

code got too long and complex

[01:55:31]

wagnerrp:

or if you need a statically compiled interpreter for whatever reason (init scripts)

[01:55:32]

sphery:

so I switched to Perl

[01:55:48]

sphery:

which, itself, may be a not ideal language for it, but it's better than bash

[01:55:50]

awalls:

I used to think of perl as "unix system V in a scripting language"

[01:56:01]

wagnerrp:

but yeah... most people should get to a point where they get frustrated at the limitations of the language

[01:56:17]

wagnerrp:

at which point they switch to something more powerful for that particular project

[01:56:30]

wagnerrp:

that... or theyre masochists and they write IRC clients purely in bash

[01:56:42]

sphery:

heh, that bash script is crazy

[01:56:51]

sphery:

irc in bash...

[01:57:05]

sphery:

definitely a "because it can be done" script

[01:57:12]

wagnerrp:

sphery: once you start making heavy use of pipes, and hit /dev/tcp for persistent connections... can it still be called a script?

[01:57:13]

awalls:

what the right tool for the right job? Piffle!

[01:57:15]

sphery:

since there's no good reason to do it

[01:57:26]

sphery:

heh

[01:57:54]

wagnerrp:

but hey! at least its not spawning off hundreds of new processes!

[01:57:59]

sphery:

true

[01:58:06]

sphery:

at least in that one, he actually used bash

[01:58:23]

sphery:

versus using mysql client and temp files and awk and sed and cut and grep and diff and ...

[01:59:14]

sphery:

so is the perl bindings schema version check new?

[01:59:51]

awalls:

Time for Fringe...

[01:59:59]

wagnerrp:

E_NOTENGLISH

[02:00:08]

sphery:

seems it is--since my other schema-changing patch has in its context the comment saying to change the python one, but without the perl comment

[02:00:13]

wagnerrp:

sphery: what was the question there?

[02:00:23]

wagnerrp:

oh... 'new'

[02:00:27]

wagnerrp:

i read that as 'now'

[02:00:29]

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[02:00:30]

sphery:

the fact that perl bindings actually check the schema version

[02:00:31]

sphery:

heh

[02:00:37]

wagnerrp:

yeah, im too far from the screen

[02:00:38]

sphery:

read-o

[02:01:01]

sphery:

(which is funny for 2 reasons... it's like typo, but for reading, and you read "o" instead of "e")

[02:01:24]

wagnerrp:

6' from a 10pt font on a 0.20mm dot pitch screen... a bit beyond my visual acuity

[02:01:27]

sphery:

maybe you just need a new retina display for your computer

[02:01:49]

wagnerrp:

i think beirdo put that in a couple months ago

[02:01:53]

sphery:

truly 10pt or faked 10pt?

[02:01:55]

wagnerrp:

it was before 0.24

[02:01:58]

sphery:

cool

[02:02:06]

sphery:

I just didn't remember it

[02:02:18]

wagnerrp:

actually... this says 'monospace 7'

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[02:03:35]

sphery:

yeah, but I meant 10/72 of an inch versus "a font size that's slightly larger than 8pt and slightly smaller than 12pt, but that has no bearing on actual physical dimensions due to the fact that the monitor/EDID/X/... is using incorrect values for physical display size)

[02:03:48]

sphery:

:)

[02:03:57]

wagnerrp:

and X seems to think i have a 27" screen, instead of the 15" reality

[02:04:08]

sphery:

because 10/72" would be very hard to see from 6ft

[02:04:15]

sphery:

ah, yeah, so different display size

[02:04:24]

sphery:

likely due to DPI lies in the system

[02:04:49]

wagnerrp:

no, probably likely because using xpra screwed it up

[02:04:51]

sphery:

I remember when points were physical dimensions... ;)

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[02:05:07]

sphery:

xpra... that's the screen for X thing?

[02:05:13]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[02:05:18]

sphery:

cool

[02:05:44]

wagnerrp:

runs a local XvFB that the applications run in, and it redirects as needed

[02:08:53]

** Beirdo feels his head explode **

[02:09:01]

Beirdo:

but at least it's time to leave work

[02:12:06]

wagnerrp:

markk is australian?

[02:12:35]

iamlindoro:

no

[02:12:44]

iamlindoro:

He's British and lives in Singapore

[02:12:56]

wagnerrp:

ah, singapore... that makes sense

[02:13:00]

wagnerrp:

just looking at the +8

[02:13:05]

wagnerrp:

(timezone offset)

[02:13:23]

wagnerrp:

didnt know any of the devs were in asia

[02:21:59]

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[02:31:22]

sphery:

heh, "these go to eleven"

[02:32:46]

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Beirdo^2

[02:33:56]

Beirdo^2:

Yay. I get to go home

[02:34:47]

wagnerrp:

i thought it was that 25 minutes ago

[02:34:55]

Beirdo^2:

Of course only because we can't get stuff working today

[02:35:27]

Beirdo^2:

Yeah. I'm on the bus getting bounced around right now

[02:36:20]

wagnerrp:

man, there he goes again... bash being good for string manipulation and file operations

[02:36:29]

Beirdo^2:

I have a feeling I will be on the phone with level3 tomorrow

[02:37:12]

wagnerrp:

when you run sed/awk/grep... in bash, does it actually use built in routines for those?

[02:37:21]

Beirdo^2:

No

[02:37:25]

wagnerrp:

i always thought it used the respective command line utilities

[02:37:39]

Beirdo^2:

It uses /bin/

[02:38:20]

Beirdo^2:

Some stuff is builtin but not those afaik

[02:39:28]

jamesd_laptop:

lots of sed/awk/grep funcationallity is built into bash if you know how to ask it nicely

[02:39:35]

** Beirdo^2 resists the urge to whistle along with Axel. **

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ablyss:

heh

[02:40:24]

Beirdo^2:

Patience is a sweet song

[02:41:08]

Beirdo^2:

I think the others on the bus would think I cracked though.

[02:41:28]

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[02:41:33]

jamesd_laptop:

Beirdo^2, you can't keep it a secret for ever

[02:41:59]

ablyss:

some commands like echo are builtin, yet parameter expansion functionality are part of the syntax

[02:42:04]

Beirdo^2:

Some of us hide it better.

[02:43:23]

Beirdo^2:

Slash bending strings on an acoustic guitar. Priceless.

[02:45:07]

sphery:

ooh, we have Bus Beirdo here, now?

[02:45:32]

sphery:

still a rather late night... After yesterday, you should have gotten off work early

[02:45:37]

Beirdo^2:

Heh

[02:45:55]

Beirdo^2:

Be home in about 10

[02:46:21]

Beirdo^2:

Yeah well. Deploy failure.

[02:47:19]

Beirdo^2:

We get it all going and find someone is filtering rtp into the box

[02:47:41]

Beirdo^2:

One way audio FTP

[02:48:04]

Beirdo^2:

FTL stupid iPhone

[02:49:19]

ablyss:

i was mistaken, i thought comcast required all its subscribers to use a digital box

[02:49:42]

sphery:

faster than light audio? nice...

[02:49:55]

** sphery has been watching too much BSG **

[02:50:01]

Beirdo^2:

Heh

[02:51:00]

** ablyss is thinking about applying for his unrestricted low voltage licenses... can he get a hell ya from the crowd **

[02:52:06]

Beirdo^2:

!trout ablyss

[02:52:06]

** MythLogBot slaps ablyss with a trout on behalf of Beirdo^2... **

[02:52:17]

ablyss:

hell ya :)

[02:52:28]

Beirdo^2:

Language

[02:52:32]

ablyss:

lol

[02:52:52]

Beirdo^2:

Ah ho

[02:53:00]

Beirdo^2:

Home rather

[02:53:06]

sphery:

welcome home

[02:53:08]

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[02:53:22]

sphery:

and welcome back Beirdo (the original)

[02:53:42]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: hes trying to argue that using some bash syntax that is effectively 'grep', along with a big series of string/replace is the ideal method of processing XML data

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wagnerrp:

aaagh...

[02:53:51]

wagnerrp:

the pain...

[02:54:00]

sphery:

not a bad bus ride, it seems... less than 20min of iPhone IRC time

[02:54:24]

sphery:

wagnerrp: woah... bash regex is so ugly, and evil

[02:54:32]

sphery:

I can't imagine doing xml with that

[02:54:53]

sphery:

even in Perl if you don't use an XML lib, you're just doing terrible hacks

[02:55:04]

sphery:

and perl regex'es aren't evil

[02:58:08]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: you serious!?

[02:58:09]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:58:16]

** ablyss prefers bash **

[02:58:19]

Beirdo:

sphery: yeah, it's 20–25min

[02:58:30]

Beirdo:

pretty reasonable

[02:58:34]

sphery:

not bad

[02:58:53]

Beirdo:

just up the hill from Chinatown area

[02:59:23]

wagnerrp:

ablyss: bash is fine as a batch language, running assorted command and basic processing

[02:59:35]

wagnerrp:

would you ever consider using it to parse out pages of XML data?

[03:00:16]

Beirdo:

I'd use it to call Perl, python, ruby, etc to do it :)

[03:00:23]

ablyss:

wagnerrp: bash has evolved a great deal. its not just a mere command line interrupter any more

[03:00:29]

Beirdo:

pfft

[03:03:11]

Beirdo:

oooh yay, a ticket

[03:03:12]

Beirdo:

:)

[03:03:50]

ablyss:

wagnerrp: i'd probably use it on xml processing, i'd probably use it for just about everything, lol

[03:06:42]

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[03:06:48]

Beirdo:

oooh, it's a mythgallery fix for 'doze

[03:06:50]

Beirdo:

K

[03:07:49]

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[03:09:29]

ablyss:

while read xml ; do [[ True = *$xml* ]] && array=($xml) ; done ./<xml_file

[03:09:56]

ablyss:

er <./xml_file

[03:10:11]

ablyss:

pretty fun stuff me thinks

[03:10:26]

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[03:10:50]

ablyss:

perl smerl... lol

[03:11:04]

wagnerrp:

i have no idea what that is supposed to do

[03:11:38]

ablyss:

i reads a file call xml_file and its test is True it puts it into an array

[03:11:53]

ablyss:

really does nothing special

[03:11:58]

Beirdo:

pffft

[03:13:01]

wagnerrp:

so thats not parsing xml in some internal bash fashion?

[03:14:04]

ablyss:

well its the first step. I always like to put everything into an array. Then from there each element can be dealt with

[03:14:30]

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[03:15:14]

ablyss:

now of course you don't have to put everything into an array, especially if you have limited amounts of ram and very big array,

[03:15:43]

ablyss:

bash has no limits to the size of an array

[03:16:21]

ablyss:

consequentially bash has no buffer overruns

[03:16:49]

wagnerrp:

does any interpreted language have array size limits?

[03:17:00]

ablyss:

c++, c

[03:17:10]

wagnerrp:

are C and C++ interpreted languages?

[03:17:37]

ablyss:

hmm, no?

[03:18:05]

wagnerrp:

interpreted means they are run through an interpreter, as opposed to compiled which run themselves

[03:18:22]

wagnerrp:

and for what its worth, you can write classes in C++ to allow dynamically sized arrays

[03:18:50]

wagnerrp:

nearly everything in the whole Qt toolkit that MythTV is based off of is dynamically sized

[03:19:24]

ablyss:

i'm not a programmer by any means.. just no a few bash tricks..

[03:19:26]

wagnerrp:

you overload the relevant operators, and it manages resizing as needed

[03:19:43]

ablyss:

no/know

[03:22:19]

ablyss:

so.. wagnerrp what is up w/ mythfrontend they take out the functionality to skip channels then they put it back in, then they took it out again

[03:22:32]

[R]:

"By installing Java you will be able to experience the power of Java, brought to you by Oracle"

[03:22:32]

[R]:

ROFL

[03:22:34]

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[03:23:01]

ablyss:

u know pressing 3 or 9 to skip up or down in the program guide

[03:23:38]

sphery:

ablyss: 3 means 3 and 9 meas 9, now

[03:23:43]

ablyss:

kinda of wish they'd leave that alone.. nice feature

[03:23:52]

sphery:

if you want to use them for something else, you need to remap them in keybindings

[03:24:07]

sphery:

i.e. if you want a non-intuitive interface, you have to set it up yourself :)

[03:24:27]

ablyss:

remap them how when the frontend had a check or uncheck feature

[03:24:51]

iamlindoro:

check or uncheck that should have been a keybinding all along

[03:25:08]

iamlindoro:

ie, a setting that never should have existed

[03:25:11]

ablyss:

u know whats weired .. 3 means 3 but 1 mean skip up a day ..... heh

[03:25:42]

ablyss:

and 7 means skip back... really smart

[03:26:18]

iamlindoro:

If that's so, just means we're not done removing useless hardcodes yet

[03:26:40]

** ablyss shakes head **

[03:26:45]

iamlindoro:

don't worry, we'll get to those

[03:27:06]

iamlindoro:

ablyss, Don't shake your head, take the time to understand

[03:27:20]

ablyss:

i don't quite understand how it is humanly easier to remap keys using "keybindings" verses editing a check box in the Program Guide menu

[03:27:48]

iamlindoro:

binding functions to unintuitive keys (like numbers, which should be numbers) and hardcoding them is a *bad* idea. If a user wants to set it up that way, he still can, by binding pgup/pgdn to those keys in keybindings

[03:28:16]

iamlindoro:

If we have a checkbox for every bindable key in every context, then we have hundreds of unnecessary settings-- which we do

[03:28:55]

iamlindoro:

removing those settings and standardizing by allowing the user to set keybindings that behave consistently, as they want them, simplifies myth, retains the same *exact* functionality you want, no matter how unintuitive it is

[03:30:15]

ablyss:

so, if i edit keybindings, there is some key that will say Skip up in Program Guide? wtf

[03:30:35]

[R]:

ablyss: you bind a key to an action

[03:31:00]

iamlindoro:

No, you will bind the pageup to any key you want, and it will.... skip a page up

[03:31:14]

iamlindoro:

and bind pagedown to any key you want and it will... skip a page down

[03:31:26]

** [R] has pageup/pagedown buttons for that **

[03:31:27]

[R]:

:)

[03:31:33]

iamlindoro:

then you're not locked into using the stupid previous default keys, which made/make no sense

[03:31:43]

ablyss:

hmm, okay dokay then I'll check into that

[03:31:45]

iamlindoro:

you miss 3 and 9 because you have muscle memory to use the old, stupid way

[03:31:58]

[R]:

how do you jump to a channel

[03:32:04]

[R]:

if the numbers navigate?

[03:32:15]

iamlindoro:

But when you take a moment to think about it, it might make a heck of a lot more sense to bind pgup/pgdn to keys that indicate up and down in some fashion

[03:32:27]

iamlindoro:

[R], you don't. And you've landed on the problem ;)

[03:32:34]

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[03:32:41]

[R]:

and people find this desirable?

[03:32:53]

iamlindoro:

people find it desirable because they're change-averse

[03:33:02]

[R]:

i heart change

[03:33:17]

iamlindoro:

so rather than thinking back to when they *first* had to learn it and how they thought, "WTF, 3 means page up?" they think, "OH NO, MY THREE KEY!"

[03:33:24]

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[03:33:42]

iamlindoro:

And tehn come to IRC and tell us what morons we are for takin' their threez

[03:33:48]

[R]:

haha

[03:33:51]

ablyss:

well, it would of been nice to put in the program guide, where the checkbox use to be a little hint "use keybindings to skip up and down"

[03:34:14]

ablyss:

and yes apple with that pie

[03:35:07]

ablyss:

seriously just remove it and expect everyone to know whats going on

[03:35:20]

iamlindoro:

We're not going to substitute instructions in where settings *used* to be. The point is to declutter the UI, not add in random hints that no longer have a context

[03:35:22]

sphery:

ablyss: we have way too many settings

[03:35:22]

[R]:

notes

[03:35:33]

sphery:

ablyss: and I am explicitly removing /all/ settings that are really key bindings

[03:35:46]

sphery:

ablyss: because what you want it so remap your key bindings to work how you think they should work

[03:35:54]

[R]:

wasn't it in the release notes?

[03:35:54]

sphery:

there's no reason to have a setting that changes key bindings

[03:35:58]

ablyss:

well, if you put it in there to begin with you need to acknowledge the problem.. not just remove it like it never existed

[03:36:11]

sphery:

other than my future plan to have key bindings "presets" you can choose, export, or import

[03:36:29]

sphery:

ablyss: want me to read the release notes to you?

[03:36:42]

iamlindoro:

ablyss, Actually, we spoke in great detail on the users list about which settings we intended to remove, and what we intended to replace them with, and then those changes were all documented in the release notes

[03:36:43]

sphery:

how else can we tell you about all the thousands of changes between versions

[03:36:49]

iamlindoro:

maybe we should come to your house too?

[03:38:52]

sphery:

ablyss: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 44125#444125

[03:38:59]

sphery:

now you just need to fix your bindings

[03:42:00]

sphery:

ablyss: anyway, using 3 and 9 in the guide meant that you could /not/ type in channel numbers to skip to those channels

[03:42:37]

sphery:

however, using the right actions for the behavior and not hard-coding in 3 and 9 to have the wrong behavior means users can choose which behavior they like

[03:43:11]

sphery:

and you can even use 2 for up, 8 for down, 4 for left, 6 for right, 3 for day right, 1 for day left, ...

[03:43:15]

sphery:

i.e. you're now in control

[03:43:48]

ablyss:

okay, so let me join the user list and read every change log.. and maybe then just maybe I'll know what happens when option disappear, then reappear, then disappear. Whatever

[03:44:21]

iamlindoro:

yes, you should join the users list

[03:44:40]

iamlindoro:

and yes, you should read the changelog and release notes if you care about what is changing

[03:44:46]

iamlindoro:

glad you understand

[03:45:20]

sphery:

ablyss: or, the other option--if you don't want to learn about what's changed--don't change MythTV... stick with the version you already know how to use

[03:45:30]

sphery:

Millions of MS Office users do this every day

[03:45:46]

[R]:

not to mention the millions of XP users

[03:45:48]

sphery:

why upgrade if you like what you've got :)

[03:46:03]

sphery:

[R]: heh, true--though with Win 7, there's less reason to do that :)

[03:46:39]

ablyss:

well on a good note, that is really my only compliant

[03:46:46]

[R]:

aparently on new computers we are getting Win 7 at my job

[03:46:55]

sphery:

heh, well, at least it's something you can fix

[03:47:20]

ablyss:

true

[03:47:21]

sphery:

and, really, here and on the -users list is a good way to learn about what's changed and how to make it work the way you want

[03:47:41]

sphery:

but just remember that people thought long and hard before making changes, and in general, every change brings improvements

[03:48:41]

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[03:49:06]

sphery:

TTBOMK, no one has ever gone through with the, "All the complaining makes me want to change something for the worse just to punish users."

[03:49:27]

iamlindoro:

yet

[03:49:48]

sphery:

that said, I do know of one dev who refused to finish writing the documentation on Advanced Recording Editing because of all the complaining on the -users list from a specific user

[03:49:49]

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[03:51:02]

sphery:

trying to decide if it's been long enough to go ahead and write it up or if I^Hthat dev should wait longer so the user has to actually try to figure things out for himself

[03:51:17]

sphery:

normally this dev isn't so evil, though

[03:51:27]

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[03:51:27]

ablyss:

well i have never used key mappings.. and I've been using mythtv since version .18

[03:52:03]

[R]:

ablyss: and?

[03:53:58]

ablyss:

[R] I suppose this makes me sort of lame or something.

[03:54:14]

sphery:

in the future, I hope to make key bindings much easier to use and much more powerful\

[03:54:14]

[R]:

quite... for STILL going on about the same thing

[03:54:21]

sphery:

just need quite a few changes before we'll be there

[03:54:24]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you around?

[03:55:01]

ablyss:

i mean, listening to everyone here.. you have to be some sort of special intuition or something

[03:55:30]

[R]:

ablyss: huh?

[03:55:37]

[R]:

whats an intuition?

[03:56:22]

ablyss:

[R] do you know ?

[03:56:26]

sphery:

we only ask that people who upgrade to new versions of mythtv take the time to figure out what's changed

[03:56:35]

[R]:

obviously i dont... because i just said "what is it"

[03:56:43]

sphery:

skd5aner has spent hundreds of hours creating release notes for exactly that reason

[03:56:51]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.24

[03:56:58]

[R]:

i heart the release notes

[03:56:59]

sphery:

read through there and you'll get an idea of what's new

[03:57:00]

ablyss:

[R]: you could be rhetorically speaking

[03:57:27]

sphery:

else, ask when you find something you don't understand--and ask, don't complain--and maybe someone will help you figure it out

[03:57:32]

wagnerrp:

ablyss: you called someone an intuition... that doesnt make sense

[03:58:01]

ablyss:

sphery: i do read the release notes as closely as possible for major things like remote controls not working or video cards.. not GUI options though sorry

[03:58:31]

ablyss:

wagnerrp: yes i did. Typo

[03:58:33]

iamlindoro:

They you're reading for the wrong things-- since we have nothing to do with video cards or remote controls working in the first place, let alone not working

[03:58:49]

iamlindoro:

You will never find that a video card or remote control doesn't work in our release notes

[03:58:59]

[R]:

iamlindoro: no reading necessary!

[04:01:05]

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[04:01:43]

ablyss:

well that's a relief to know. I don't have to worry about my video card or remote not working from *improvments*

[04:01:53]

[R]:

iamlindoro: is pagedown not wrapping around to the beginning of a list a bug or by design?

[04:02:05]

ablyss:

er *improvements*

[04:02:08]

wagnerrp:

not our improvements anyway

[04:02:10]

iamlindoro:

Wrap behavior is at the discretion of the themer

[04:02:18]

wagnerrp:

usually

[04:02:21]

[R]:

iamlindoro: it works for the up/down buttons...

[04:02:52]

wagnerrp:

ablyss: if we improve the UI by requiring opengl (in consideration), old graphics card may not have sufficient power to work

[04:04:40]

** ablyss shakes head again **

[04:04:55]

iamlindoro:

You should probably stop upgrading

[04:05:04]

ablyss:

i'm gonna have a pulled muscle if I keep this up

[04:05:21]

iamlindoro:

more advanced software requires more advanced hardware. Advances mean change.

[04:05:35]

wagnerrp:

ablyss: for what its worth, xbmc already did the same 'improvement' a while ago

[04:05:43]

iamlindoro:

A *long* while ago

[04:06:01]

ablyss:

shouldn't there be a auto detection for legacy users?

[04:06:11]

wagnerrp:

thats one of the big reasons why they get a flashier UI than us

[04:06:12]

iamlindoro:

no, because that means maintaining legacy code.

[04:06:39]

iamlindoro:

Which we don't have any desire to do

[04:07:32]

ablyss:

i hope someone in you team has the desire to do so

[04:07:45]

iamlindoro:

No. This is team policy.

[04:07:45]

[R]:

ablyss: you're free to fork the code and put anything you want in it...

[04:08:04]

wagnerrp:

ablyss: i hope our users have the desire to spend the $25 needed for a usable video card when that 'improvement' happens

[04:08:45]

wagnerrp:

any video card from he last several generations of nvidia or amd should work fine

[04:08:52]

iamlindoro:

ablyss, If you don't like the way things are going, *don't upgrade*. It's an acceptable option. But if you want the new features, that means accepting change and meeting any hardware requirements that arise.

[04:09:13]

Wicked:

there comes a point when catering to a small group of users is no longer viable for the advancement of the program.

[04:10:26]

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[04:11:04]

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[04:11:40]

sphery:

anyone know what language I'm currently speaking?

[04:11:44]

sphery:

must not be English...

[04:12:04]

Beirdo:

I think it's Floridan.

[04:12:09]

Beirdo:

why?

[04:12:11]

sphery:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010 . . . /305121.html (ending with "(please no "me too" comments)" after pointing to #3597), then http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3597#comment:15

[04:13:19]

ablyss:

for the recored i have an intel shuttle xpc but using nvidia 9600gt I believe, with vdpau enabled.

[04:13:32]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: any idea why 'git log fixes/0.23' wouldnt work?

[04:13:33]

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[04:13:40]

wagnerrp:

ablyss: then you would be perfectly fine

[04:13:46]

wagnerrp:

a 9600gt would be plenty fast

[04:14:03]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: have you ever done git checkout fixes/0.23?

[04:14:14]

ablyss:

oh and hauppuage 1600

[04:14:22]

wagnerrp:

probably not

[04:14:32]

wagnerrp:

ablyss: has nothing to do with video output

[04:14:36]

Beirdo:

if not, what you probably want is: git log origin/fixes/0.23

[04:14:56]

ablyss:

wagnerrp: sorry just thought i'd share

[04:15:08]

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[04:15:32]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: ah, i see... thats why you didnt remove origin until later

[04:15:41]

Beirdo:

precisely :)

[04:15:41]

wagnerrp:

ablyss: just speaking in reference to the previous discussion

[04:15:58]

wagnerrp:

support for the digital tuner and mpeg encoders are not likely to be removed any time soon

[04:16:21]

Beirdo:

I just didn't want to have to locally check them all out. You have the history anyways with the clone of the remote branches

[04:17:20]

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[04:22:52]

ablyss:

clear

[04:23:05]

** ablyss notes /clear works even better **

[04:23:43]

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[04:24:02]

sphery:

heh

[04:25:17]

sphery:

"My plan-B is to get some old laptop running Linux to act as a back-end to Mythboxee running on the AppleTV." ??? Mythboxee?

[04:29:33]

sphery:

seems that's http://www.mythtvtalk.com/mythboxee-mythtv-via-boxee-13332/

[04:30:10]

sphery:

and wagnerrp already provided some feedback

[04:30:40]

sphery:

and the dev actually considered /and/ used the feedback without a fight...

[04:31:01]

wagnerrp:

yeah, he actually seems pretty happy to get input

[04:31:22]

wagnerrp:

but alas, the APIs exposed to boxee plugins really limit the usability of it

[04:31:29]

sphery:

yeah, the one who helps make you forget all the other fights

[04:31:36]

wagnerrp:

they can only provide a filename or URL

[04:31:39]

sphery:

ah, too bad

[04:31:50]

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[04:31:54]

wagnerrp:

meaning the only option for playing from mythtv is streaming through the web server

[04:33:07]

wagnerrp:

whats going on... the star of flashpoint is the token night guard in bones

[04:33:21]

wagnerrp:

i thought he was bigger than bit parts

[04:34:13]

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[04:35:15]

wagnerrp:

that guy is actually in here somewhat regularly

[04:35:20]

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[04:35:22]

wagnerrp:

!seen ekristen

[04:35:22]

MythLogBot:

ekristen was last seen 14 days 11 hours 57 minutes 28 seconds ago

[04:35:57]

sphery:

he's the star of flashpoint?

[04:36:02]

sphery:

and he uses mythtv?

[04:36:09]

sphery:

:)

[04:38:03]

sphery:

ah, you mean Enrico Colantoni

[04:38:09]

sphery:

I thought you meant Hugh Dillon

[04:38:44]

sphery:

Yeah, Enrico was Mr Mars and was Elliot DiMauro (photog on Just Shoot Me)

[04:40:04]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the bald guy

[04:40:28]

wagnerrp:

hes a night guard with a couple lines in tonight's Bones

[04:40:34]

sphery:

cool

[04:40:39]

sphery:

I've always liked him

[04:40:54]

wagnerrp:

that show is still going isnt it?

[04:40:55]

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[04:41:01]

sphery:

Flashpoint?

[04:41:03]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[04:41:16]

sphery:

went this season... don't know, yet, if it will have another

[04:41:23]

sphery:

haven't watched this season, yet

[04:42:18]

sphery:

looks like they haven't, yet aired the S3 finale...

[04:42:32]

sphery:

last airing was Sep 17, 2nd to last ep of the season

[04:42:34]

sphery:

strange

[04:50:35]

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[04:52:27]

wagnerrp:

'were best buy, we know audio, thats why we carry these headphones from X rapper'... yes, because when i think high quality audio, i think about people who like to use autotune

[04:54:07]

jya:

anyone here using 6 channels analog or hdmi out who could try something for me ?

[04:54:25]

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[05:00:08]

wagnerrp:

aww... fox forgot to flip back to HD

[05:04:17]

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[05:08:21]

sphery:

heh, Fringe is doing the KGB umbrella thing

[05:08:37]

sphery:

wagnerrp: in bones? how far in?

[05:09:50]

wagnerrp:

50 minutes or so

[05:10:52]

sphery:

yay, mine did it right

[05:12:52]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i figured it was a foul up at the local broadcaster

[05:15:03]

biffhero:

can I make a group filter which shows everything except a search? I like The Piano Guy, and there are now 64 episodes. we would like to have them not show up.

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[06:22:35]

Chaorain:

I just upgraded to 0.24 and when I watch live tv and the try to change channels I get an error "Error opening jump program file" and it boots me to the main meu, Help please?

[06:22:44]

[R]:

what does the logs say

[06:23:21]

wagnerrp:

specifically backend logs

[06:23:30]

Chaorain:

uh one sec

[06:24:24]

Chaorain:

do you want Back & front or just back?

[06:24:36]

wagnerrp:

just back for now

[06:24:43]

wagnerrp:

just paste the link to the site in here

[06:26:08]

Chaorain:

http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/E3LHKS5c

[06:28:16]

wagnerrp:

what card do you have?

[06:28:26]

Chaorain:

HVR-950Q

[06:28:31]

Chaorain:

usb

[06:28:52]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, isn't that 0.23 RC?

[06:29:02]

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[06:29:20]

wagnerrp:

isnt what?

[06:29:26]

Chaorain:

Whenever I start Live TV I get the disney channel just fine, but when I change channels it dies

[06:29:38]

tgm4883:

Chaorain's backend log

[06:29:57]

tgm4883:

branches/release-0-23-fixes [24158]

[06:29:57]

MythLogBot:

SVN 24158: (branch fixes/0.23) https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/67b5afcf

[06:30:02]

wagnerrp:

no, hes actually got a build from within the last 8 hours

[06:30:16]

wagnerrp:

git hash df2d58b

[06:30:42]

tgm4883:

ok, i must not have looked far enough down then

[06:30:44]

Chaorain:

yeah, JUST updated

[06:31:05]

wagnerrp:

yeah, he pasted the /whole/ thing

[06:31:23]

wagnerrp:

anyway... first, you really shouldnt be using analog on that tuner, digital only

[06:31:29]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, thats from our log grabber

[06:31:45]

wagnerrp:

second, if you must use analog, its complaining that your recording profiles are not set up properly

[06:31:48]

tgm4883:

i'm fixing it to grab the last 1000 lines rather than the whole thing

[06:32:16]

Chaorain:

I just used MCC to grab the log

[06:32:23]

wagnerrp:

tgm4883: better to search for the latest 'mybackend version: ....'

[06:32:37]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, yea I just quickly looked at it

[06:32:39]

tgm4883:

my bad

[06:32:45]

wagnerrp:

fall back to 1k lines if you cant find one

[06:33:00]

Chaorain:

um, recording profiles setuo, backend?

[06:33:22]

wagnerrp:

frontend

[06:33:36]

Chaorain:

ah, got it

[06:34:23]

Chaorain:

ok Should I use RTjpeg and if so, what quality?

[06:34:46]

wagnerrp:

what processor do you have?

[06:35:05]

Chaorain:

Intel Core 2 Duo

[06:35:17]

wagnerrp:

better to use mpeg4

[06:35:34]

Chaorain:

leave it at defaults?

[06:35:46]

wagnerrp:

i suppose

[06:36:06]

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[06:36:11]

Chaorain:

MP3 for audio?

[06:36:16]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[06:36:58]

Chaorain:

ok, just changed all profiles

[06:38:27]

wagnerrp:

the other issue is this 'dailed to query controls' stuff

[06:38:35]

wagnerrp:

if the recording profiles dont fix it

[06:38:40]

wagnerrp:

maybe you have a permissions issue

[06:38:44]

wagnerrp:

or the driver is messed up

[06:38:53]

Chaorain:

should I reboot first?

[06:38:56]

wagnerrp:

try accessing it in tvtime, or some other similar program

[06:38:58]

wagnerrp:

no need

[06:39:56]

wagnerrp:

dirty dirty phone company

[06:40:02]

wagnerrp:

fiber to over 70k households

[06:40:17]

wagnerrp:

fiber to houses within a block

[06:40:22]

wagnerrp:

but no peep about when i get it here

[06:40:47]

wagnerrp:

come on, im still faithfully using the same modem you gave me when i signed up over a decade ago

[06:41:25]

Chaorain:

hm, tried to changed channels but its not responding, I can switch to other desktops so its just MythTV

[06:47:46]

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[07:01:26]

Chaorain:

wagnerrp: you still here?

[07:01:45]

wagnerrp:

yep

[07:02:22]

Chaorain:

When I tried it the fronend just died

[07:02:32]

Chaorain:

*froze

[07:02:38]

wagnerrp:

did the backend record anything?

[07:03:04]

Chaorain:

um, let me try again and check the logs

[07:04:40]

Chaorain:

?!?, now it worked

[07:05:05]

** wagnerrp is a miracle worker **

[07:05:24]

Chaorain:

but no sound, and it just crashed

[07:05:35]

** wagnerrp works crappy miracles **

[07:05:51]

Chaorain:

ok that was funny

[07:06:17]

Chaorain:

is there a better way to post logs than the grabber?

[07:06:35]

wagnerrp:

manual copy/paste?

[07:06:57]

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[07:08:48]

Chaorain:

http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/H7V1NrHR

[07:09:55]

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[07:10:17]

wagnerrp:

are these frontend or backend logs? it looks like mix of both

[07:11:17]

Chaorain:

I copyed straight from /var/log/mythtv/mthbackend.log

[07:11:57]

Chaorain:

should just be the backend

[07:12:12]

wagnerrp:

theres an entry saying something is connecting to the local backend

[07:12:42]

wagnerrp:

specifically, logs from something that is connecting to the local backend

[07:12:52]

wagnerrp:

... i wonder if the preview generator would cause that

[07:13:05]

Chaorain:

got me

[07:13:11]

wagnerrp:

anyway, i would check to see if anything else can access the tuner card

[07:13:44]

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[07:14:22]

Chaorain:

what would you recommend? TV time is the only one I know about

[07:14:38]

Chaorain:

I did manage to change channels twice

[07:14:41]

wagnerrp:

that works good enough, try it, see if it can access the tuner

[07:14:55]

Chaorain:

kk, need to instal

[07:16:35]

Chaorain:

yup, got video, sound, can change channel

[07:16:53]

Chaorain:

responds really fast

[07:18:57]

Chaorain:

any other ideas?

[07:19:54]

wagnerrp:

nope, i intentionally avoid such tuners

[07:20:25]

Chaorain:

hm, can you recommend another tunner, analog/digital tunner

[07:20:45]

Chaorain:

Analog is more important

[07:22:46]

wagnerrp:

does it need to be USB?

[07:22:51]

Chaorain:

no

[07:23:01]

wagnerrp:

PVR-150

[07:23:38]

wagnerrp:

!seen kormoc

[07:23:39]

MythLogBot:

kormoc is here and has been idle for 5 hours 28 minutes 59 seconds

[07:23:54]

kormoc:

Hello

[07:24:11]

wagnerrp:

http://www.wagnerrp.com/commitlog/download/nu . . . 3/1269336833

[07:24:28]

Chaorain:

wagnerrp: what kind of quality does it get?

[07:24:39]

kormoc:

nice

[07:24:41]

wagnerrp:

depends on the bitrate you give it

[07:24:48]

wagnerrp:

good enough for me

[07:25:33]

Chaorain:

um, I thought quality was measured in pixels, not bitrate

[07:25:43]

kormoc:

Chaorain, Analog doesn't work that way

[07:26:16]

Beirdo:

nice work, wagnerrp :)

[07:26:42]

wagnerrp:

now i just need to import the rest of the repos, migrate it over

[07:26:54]

wagnerrp:

and figure out some way to get the commit hooks to keep it updated

[07:27:08]

kormoc:

Beirdo, if someone does a ton of work on a remote branch and then merges it in, it won't 'go back' in history will it?

[07:27:09]

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[07:27:28]

wagnerrp:

depends on how fast they commit

[07:27:28]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[07:27:36]

wagnerrp:

if they get up to 88 commits per second....

[07:27:49]

Beirdo:

not sure if that shows commit date or push data

[07:27:51]

Beirdo:

date

[07:28:00]

Chaorain:

kormoc: merges only do changes

[07:28:10]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, well, I'm thinking if I commited something locally today and then merged it in a week, does it show up in master's timeline as committed today or next week

[07:28:17]

kormoc:

push then

[07:28:28]

kormoc:

whatever the git term is for tossing up remote commits

[07:28:39]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: check out git log --pretty=fuller

[07:29:03]

Chaorain:

got me

[07:29:24]

wagnerrp:

youre talking about AuthorDate versus CommitDate?

[07:29:41]

Beirdo:

yeah, not sure which you want

[07:29:58]

wagnerrp:

doesnt seem to matter

[07:30:02]

Beirdo:

I thought there was a push date too, but maybe that's just github saying when it saw it

[07:30:04]

wagnerrp:

theyre all identical

[07:30:09]

Beirdo:

no they aren't

[07:30:09]

wagnerrp:

i saw that a couple hours ago

[07:30:29]

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[07:30:29]

wagnerrp:

theyre (nearly) all identical

[07:30:38]

wagnerrp:

one discrepancy out of a few dozen so far

[07:30:44]

Beirdo:

47164a616

[07:30:56]

kormoc:

I'm just wondering what happens as more and more folks get into the 'git' way

[07:30:58]

wagnerrp:

thats the one im looking at

[07:31:02]

Beirdo:

if the person has squashed and rebased before merging...

[07:31:14]

Beirdo:

that branch has several of em

[07:31:56]

Beirdo:

I think it's commitdate you want

[07:33:10]

Beirdo:

but still, when that branch is merged into master, if you say you want a build at Dec 2, 2010... what will you get?

[07:33:31]

Beirdo:

this is why using date as the selector is not good with parallel development

[07:33:33]

kormoc:

what I want is as it was on Dec 2, 2010 at 11:330 pm

[07:33:48]

wagnerrp:

commitdate is what is showing up in the commit emails

[07:33:55]

kormoc:

History is immutable!

[07:34:06]

Beirdo:

if you picked Dec 2 22:26:50...

[07:34:13]

Beirdo:

you will get a buttload of commits

[07:34:23]

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[07:34:26]

wagnerrp:

no, just that last one in that second

[07:34:27]

Beirdo:

3 in that case

[07:34:37]

kormoc:

You git guys and your ignoring the laws put in place by the quantum strings!

[07:34:53]

Beirdo:

on that branch, and someone may have committed on master or another branch during that second

[07:35:06]

wagnerrp:

that doesnt matter

[07:35:24]

Beirdo:

that's why I've been telling you, you should choose by sha1, or you may get differing results after merges, etc

[07:35:25]

wagnerrp:

repository, branch, and timestamp are currently used in the search

[07:35:30]

Beirdo:

right

[07:35:40]

Beirdo:

and after I merge into master...

[07:35:46]

Beirdo:

all those commits will be on master

[07:35:57]

wagnerrp:

youre saying someone commits, and then merges weeks later

[07:36:01]

Beirdo:

yes

[07:36:02]

wagnerrp:

there will be a new commit showing up

[07:36:19]

Beirdo:

there'd better be, or the merge is kinda meaningless, is it not?

[07:36:20]

wagnerrp:

so if we choose a timestamp /after/ that person has committed

[07:36:28]

wagnerrp:

but /before/ they push

[07:36:43]

wagnerrp:

it will show up as before the one were looking at in the history?

[07:36:53]

Beirdo:

it could, by time, yes

[07:37:01]

wagnerrp:

or it will be at head and will get everything over the past several weeks?

[07:37:29]

Beirdo:

that's hard to determine until we see it happen to be sure

[07:38:54]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: your call, the data is there to support whatever format we want

[07:39:13]

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[07:39:17]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, let's just go with what you have and we can fix it later if it happens

[07:39:24]

wagnerrp:

timestamp plus a 2–4 character hash?

[07:39:36]

wagnerrp:

2 should be enough to resolve any issues

[07:39:42]

kormoc:

that just breaks entirely if something changes history, no?

[07:40:12]

wagnerrp:

meaning we search for the commit that starts with that hash at that timestamp

[07:40:21]

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[07:40:47]

kormoc:

ahh, that might work

[07:40:55]

kormoc:

but if we're storing hash info, we might as well store it all, no?

[07:40:59]

Beirdo:

2 characters will probably suffice... 4 for sure, I'd bet

[07:41:27]

wagnerrp:

so the above would be nuvexport/fixes/0.23/1283040982/03

[07:42:29]

Beirdo:

that should help for the multiple commits within a second regardless of origin

[07:43:55]

Chaorain:

gnight

[07:45:46]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: could make it accept as many characters as you put in, even

[07:45:55]

toeb:

mh my frontend shows me not all recordings. Yes i saw the question in the faq but either i don't really get it or something is wrong...: Mytweb schows mie 217 recordings if i select "Show groups: All groups" and "Show recordings: All recordings". Using the frontend i press "m" in Watch recordings and select "Change Group Filter" which where i want to select All Programs which is displayed as "All Programs (182)"

[07:46:04]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: would have to add code to make it not accept as many characters as i put in

[07:46:13]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:46:24]

Beirdo:

well, as many as you put in, up to 40 :)

[07:46:38]

Beirdo:

after that you are guaranteed not to match :)

[07:46:53]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: if thats the case, id really rather use a date string than a unix timestamp

[07:46:53]

toeb:

in the Change Group View menu i don't have a button wich says "all programs" as mentioned on the wiki

[07:48:07]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, yeah, go ahead and do what you think is best

[07:48:43]

wagnerrp:

something like 'nuvexport-0.25_alpha2010082803a7

[07:48:51]

wagnerrp:

YYYYMMDDhash

[07:48:52]

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[07:49:10]

Beirdo:

mostly easy to read :)

[07:49:21]

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[07:49:43]

Beirdo:

and definitely easier to read than epoch time with hash appended

[07:49:44]

kormoc:

the a7 will break it

[07:49:50]

kormoc:

must be numeric

[07:50:09]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[07:50:31]

kormoc:

we could encode the hash in decimal and then decode it...

[07:50:36]

Beirdo:

you could take the 4 characters and do hex->decimal

[07:50:39]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:50:45]

Beirdo:

great minds..

[07:50:57]

kormoc:

but it also has a decent chance to break updates during the same day

[07:51:04]

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[07:51:05]

kormoc:

granted, I'm the only one that likely does that

[07:51:19]

Beirdo:

hmm

[07:51:37]

Beirdo:

you could put the time and then the hex->decimal

[07:51:59]

Beirdo:

like 20101209235143 followed by hex->decimal

[07:52:18]

Beirdo:

it would sort right I would think, but gets harder to read

[07:53:18]

Beirdo:

the only time it wouldn't sort right is if you compiled several different commits with the same timestamp down to the second

[07:53:38]

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[08:32:20]

Beirdo:

hahaha

[08:32:38]

Beirdo:

we are looking for a Myth system that:

[08:32:42]

Beirdo:

juliennes fries

[08:32:53]

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[08:39:05]

wagnerrp:

mythpressure

[08:40:04]

Beirdo:

that guy's just mythlazy

[08:42:14]

Beirdo:

he should just buy a Dell already

[08:44:50]

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[09:01:06]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: i wonder if i should just tell that guy 'theres a reason people only use bash for init scripts and small utilities'

[09:01:30]

Beirdo:

hehe

[09:01:48]

Beirdo:

he'll just try to "educate" you again

[09:02:52]

** wagnerrp has only written programs in half a dozen languages **

[09:03:00]

kormoc:

he's proof that folks code full solutions in bash!

[09:03:19]

wagnerrp:

init systems are full solutions

[09:03:52]

Beirdo:

I've done it before... DNS provisioning system...

[09:04:03]

Beirdo:

but half-way through, I wished I had used perl

[09:04:42]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: one more question ive not come up with a solution for

[09:05:14]

wagnerrp:

the tarball downloaded through github puts the source in a folder MythTV-<repo>-<hash>

[09:05:29]

kormoc:

oh fun!

[09:05:49]

wagnerrp:

part of the ebuild system requires you put in the path to the root of the source in the unpacked file

[09:05:57]

wagnerrp:

does that take wildcards?

[09:06:03]

kormoc:

no it doesn't

[09:06:34]

wagnerrp:

even better, sometimes it uses 7 characters, sometimes 8

[09:07:04]

** kormoc facepalms **

[09:07:09]

Beirdo:

yes, it will use the shortest SHA1 abbreviation that it can

[09:07:27]

kormoc:

the whole concept of a short SHA1 is absurd

[09:07:40]

kormoc:

as a future commit might require old ones to be lengthened

[09:07:42]

Beirdo:

how so? It's to save you typing

[09:07:46]

Beirdo:

yeah

[09:08:03]

Beirdo:

technically, you should use the full 40 every time

[09:08:04]

kormoc:

so using the shorter one for anything that's long lived is just asking for trouble

[09:08:10]

Beirdo:

yeah

[09:08:26]

Beirdo:

it was designed mainly for use shortly after a git log

[09:08:44]

Beirdo:

i.e. cut/paste the first few chars

[09:08:58]

kormoc:

but that's blind as you don't know if it collides historically or not...

[09:09:00]

Beirdo:

at least that's what I figure

[09:09:21]

Beirdo:

you will the second you use it

[09:09:32]

wagnerrp:

if that means the path in the file will not be consistent in the long term

[09:09:42]

wagnerrp:

that only leaves one solution i can think of

[09:09:54]

Beirdo:

you should be able to request it with the full sha1

[09:09:57]

wagnerrp:

let this utility sideload it, unpack, fix, and repack

[09:09:59]

kormoc:

and if you're copying and pasting, who cares what length it is? just double click so it highlights the entire thing and paste it in

[09:10:21]

wagnerrp:

and subsequently serve it from our server

[09:10:27]

kormoc:

what you can do is in src_unpack() { rename it to a constant path

[09:16:11]

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[09:23:09]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: could we build a custom downloader into pkg_nofetch?

[09:23:56]

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[09:24:33]

kormoc:

maybe

[09:24:34]

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[09:25:08]

wagnerrp:

although it seems that would kill the auto-mirroring on the gentoo servers

[09:25:22]

kormoc:

yeah

[09:26:31]

kormoc:

welp, I need to snooze

[09:26:35]

kormoc:

'night

[09:26:40]

wagnerrp:

ditto

[09:27:16]

kormoc is now known as kormoc_afk

[09:31:37]

Beirdo:

anyways, bed for me

[09:35:05]

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[10:23:51]

zoran119:

hey, when you press space while playing a video, mythtv makes a bookmark

[10:24:32]

zoran119:

is that bookmark exact or link 30 seconds around where you pressed space?

[10:24:41]

zoran119:

*like

[10:26:43]

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[10:34:35]

zoran119:

if i bookmark at 35min and 45sec it will resume from 34min and 45sec

[10:34:43]

zoran119:

is this normal?

[10:35:15]

Senkrad_Luna:

I have found it to be fairly accurate, however I also found that the player starts accessing the file and takes a second or two before it shows an image. As a result I try to bookmark a second or two before where I want it to make sure I can catch the part without having to back track.

[10:35:38]

Senkrad_Luna:

I have not seen what you are describing so my guess is that it is not normal.

[10:36:04]

Senkrad_Luna:

I have been using myth for 4–5 years now.

[10:38:18]

zoran119:

it's quite random in my case...

[10:38:53]

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[10:39:02]

zoran119:

it may be related to the fact that when i ff at 3x for example, the elspsed time moves as normal (instead of at 3x)

[10:39:13]

zoran119:

maybe it's got someting to do with file type...

[10:40:40]

k-man:

when i run the screen adjustment wizard, after i save the adjustment, the mythtv window becomes too small, and i can see the desktop behind it

[10:50:30]

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[10:54:55]

zoran119:

where are the bookmarks held... can i see where the bookmark is in terms of time?

[10:58:45]

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[10:59:08]

k-man:

is there an easy way to create a record rule for movies i would like to see oneday, so that if they happen to come on, they will record automaticaly?

[11:08:41]

zoran119:

the time is moving too slow...

[11:09:27]

zoran119:

when i play a video one second in myth is almost two seconds in real time...

[11:12:42]

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zoran119:

yeah... seems time keeping in this mp4 file is all messed up

[11:28:58]

zoran119:

how can i convert it to someting else

[11:43:35]

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skd5aner:

That was fast! http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/464013#464013

[15:51:54]

skd5aner:

sphery:^ in case you didn't see it

[15:52:03]

skd5aner:

off to update my firmware

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[16:03:31]

stuartm:

[16:03:35]

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[16:04:06]

stuartm:

WD Black doesn't look like a great investment with failure rates running at 10%

[16:04:30]

skd5aner:

how were those stats figured?

[16:05:33]

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[16:05:45]

stuartm:

from an unnamed retailers returns department – http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/10/flash . . . re_than_hdd/

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[16:34:16]

iamlindoro:

Lawrence Rust's patches are great-- his websites, not so much

[16:34:22]

** iamlindoro cringes at all the Comic Sans **

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[16:41:31]

J-e-f-f-A:

stuartm: Yeah, I used to Love WD, but a couple of years ago 2 of my 6 WD 500GB drives died, with 2 more soon after. And the remaining one I was using had not failed yet, but had many bad sectors... it's been retired too...

[16:50:23]

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[17:22:43]

sphery:

skd5aner: yeah, saw it. Thanks.

[17:23:09]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i may be getting through to him after showing him how to properly process XML data

[17:23:25]

wagnerrp:

(by not doing anything, and letting a well written parser do it for you)

[17:24:19]

sphery:

nice

[17:24:48]

wagnerrp:

of course you wont like what this means

[17:25:01]

sphery:

what's that?

[17:25:14]

wagnerrp:

his alternate language of choice is java, hes yours now

[17:25:16]

wagnerrp:

:P

[17:25:49]

sphery:

heh

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[17:28:28]

wagnerrp:

according to this... http://gizmodo.com/5669331

[17:28:47]

wagnerrp:

dynamic contrast ratios are calculated using the darkest black a tv can achieve... when its turned off

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[17:34:21]

awalls:

iamlindoro: The one professional web designer I know doesn't appear to like Comic Sans either: http://juneallison.com/

[17:34:29]

** awalls shamelessly promotes a relative's web design business **

[17:34:42]

iamlindoro:

heh

[17:34:47]

iamlindoro:

Comic Sans is THE DEVIL

[17:34:59]

iamlindoro:

But your relative seems to have nice tastes in fonts :)

[17:35:11]

awalls:

Then why do school teachers subject my children to it?

[17:35:21]

awalls:

;)

[17:35:24]

wagnerrp:

but it makes the page feel light hearted, and tells people you like to party

[17:35:44]

iamlindoro:

But then, I'm the guy who had the one-sided argument with the entire users list a year or two ago about how no, in fact, all fonts are not more or less the same and free fonts are not necessarily ok for a decent theme

[17:36:09]

iamlindoro:

The ol' "Just put Liberation Sans in, it's great" debate

[17:36:32]

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[17:36:32]

awalls:

The whole eye of the beholder thing.

[17:37:03]

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[17:38:23]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: you know, hitler hated comic sans too

[17:38:39]

awalls:

Godwin's law! .. no wait...

[17:39:24]

iamlindoro:

WAS IST DIESES SCHEISSES FONT???

[17:39:28]

awalls:

:)

[17:39:32]

** iamlindoro waits for the downfall parody to be prepared **

[17:39:53]

wagnerrp:

yeah, trying... but they all have no audio

[17:39:57]

wagnerrp:

its just not the same

[17:40:05]

wagnerrp:

either that or my flash is hosed

[17:40:13]

wagnerrp:

could go either way on that one

[17:40:58]

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[17:41:04]

wagnerrp:

yeah, flash is hosed

[17:44:36]

stuartm:

iamlindoro: I don't doubt that there are good fonts and bad fonts, my problem is that I'm just not very good at telling one from another

[17:45:24]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: Even if one can't tell one font from the next, there's an intangible quality to a well laid out design with quality fonts that I like to believe that most people *can* appreciate, even if they don't know why

[17:45:33]

stuartm:

yes the very nasty looking fonts are easily distinguished, but aside from chronic overuse I've never had much of a problem with comic sans etc, I don't have a problem with Arial etc

[17:45:43]

iamlindoro:

I don't claim to be an expert myself, but I am at least OCD enough to not stop on a layout until I start to get that feeling

[17:49:03]

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[17:54:03]

sphery:

awalls: re: Comic Sans: http://www.reallifecomics.com/archive/091011.html

[17:54:29]

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[17:59:22]

wagnerrp:

halp me! i need halp with mah thernet controller?

[18:00:27]

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[18:08:09]

wagnerrp:

paul-h: if youre interested, theres a ticket against mytharchive from a couple hours ago that never made it past the spam filter

[18:08:35]

wagnerrp:

seems the anonymous user didnt understand what it meant when it told them they needed a valid email address to post

[18:09:08]

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[18:09:59]

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[18:11:56]

** sphery waits for the "I'm getting prebuffering pauses" due to the "I'm smarter than the kernel" configurations **

[18:12:47]

wagnerrp:

seriously... i cant imagine such a 'tweak' would cause that much of an improvement

[18:12:52]

sphery:

aka "How to spend more effort trying to make an underpowered system run MythTV"

[18:13:15]

sphery:

it's basically throwing away the concept of nice (across group boundaries)

[18:13:16]

wagnerrp:

sphery: but theyre not talking about underpowered, i saw mentions of core2s and i5s

[18:13:31]

sphery:

and doing things like setting swappiness to 0 and ...

[18:13:32]

sphery:

:(

[18:13:54]

sphery:

yeah, well, I still contend that if you have a proper system--properly configured--you don't need such hacks

[18:15:15]

wagnerrp:

i still content that the people who write the kernel are smarter than most of us

[18:15:25]

wagnerrp:

by and large, theyre going to set decent enough default settings

[18:15:26]

sphery:

+1

[18:15:41]

sphery:

and people who write the kernel understand the kernel better than most of us

[18:15:51]

sphery:

and understand the design decisions made in the kernel better than most of us

[18:16:52]

paul-h:

wagnerrp: The MythArchive ticket is a known problem, I think there is already an open ticket for it

[18:17:27]

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[18:20:07]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v wagnerrp

[18:23:21]

awalls:

sphery: +1 on the Comic Sans comic :)

[18:24:12]

wagnerrp:

paul-h: ok, just wanted to forward that on

[18:26:06]

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[18:29:01]

jarle:

anybody here had anything to do with the dvb-s channel scanner? I notice that I get several entries in dtv_multiplex where mod_sys is set to "UNDEFINED", and tuning to a channel on such a multiplex fails, however changing it from UNDEFINED to DVB-S makes it work just fine. Guess this is a bug in the channel scanner?

[18:33:16]

sphery:

Are you running current 0.24-fixes? That sounds (to my "I don't really pay attention to DVB stuff" ears) like something that was recently fixed.

[18:33:17]

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[18:34:01]

jarle:

sphery: 0.24-fixes as of a week ago or so..

[18:34:37]

sphery:

hmmm... this is what I was thinking of: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7546 . might be different, but hasn't been fixed

[18:34:45]

jarle:

sphery: if it was fixed, it was probably in the channel scanner?

[18:37:07]

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[18:37:34]

jarle:

sphery: this does not sound like the same bug. I'm wondering if "UNDEFINED" is a valid value for this table at all, and if not why it is put there by the channel scanner...

[18:40:50]

awalls:

a "Comic" font category so one can make a light-hearted theme without using "Comic Sans": http://www.dafont.com/theme.php?cat=102 :P

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[19:00:47]

Senkrad_Luna:

Hey everyone. Ran into a problem last night and have been trying to fix it since. I have redone my input connections, the programme guide is filling but even for programmes that are showing I cannot get it to schedule it. Running .22 on Fedora 10. Do I redo my input connections again? Is there something else I can do?

[19:02:34]

Senkrad_Luna:

Oh and I am in the uk incase that helps.

[19:02:36]

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[19:03:18]

Azelphur:

Senkrad_Luna: .22?

[19:03:21]

Azelphur:

.22 is ooooooooold

[19:03:43]

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[19:03:45]

Senkrad_Luna:

I have not had issue till now so have avoided messing with it.

[19:04:13]

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[19:07:38]

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[19:09:32]

sphery:

Senkrad_Luna: sounds like your input connections are still misconfigured

[19:09:42]

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[19:09:44]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[19:10:02]

sphery:

at least the video sources portion, but you may also need the capture cards portion

[19:10:42]

sphery:

chances are your channels that have data aren't properly connected to inputs--so mythtv can't record from them, so it shows no upcoming recordings (since there can't be any)

[19:10:58]

sphery:

this is usually due to having duplicate channels

[19:11:37]

sphery:

such as you could get if you scan for analog channels, then run mythfilldatabase using xmltv RT grabber without properly setting xmltvid on the channels found by the scan

[19:11:39]

Senkrad_Luna:

That is what I did. Video sources all, then cards all then rebuilt cards and rebuilt sources and created the inputs.

[19:12:12]

Senkrad_Luna:

I am only on digital.

[19:12:20]

sphery:

dvb?

[19:12:25]

Senkrad_Luna:

Yes.

[19:12:30]

sphery:

c, t, or s?

[19:12:50]

stuartm:

-t or -s no -c in the UK

[19:12:57]

Senkrad_Luna:

I will try removing them rebooting then building them. -t

[19:13:09]

sphery:

Senkrad_Luna: what are you using for listings?

[19:13:14]

sphery:

eit or xmltv?

[19:13:17]

stuartm:

well there is -c but you can't use it

[19:13:26]

sphery:

stuartm: cool, didn't realize that

[19:14:40]

stuartm:

all encrypted, can only use the cable companies equipment on their line etc

[19:15:02]

sphery:

ah, so you'd use analog capture for that? with like the HD-PVR or whatever?

[19:15:09]

Senkrad_Luna:

EIT

[19:15:10]

** stuartm has cable but records everything FTA on DVB-T and DVB-S **

[19:15:12]

stuartm:

sphery: aye

[19:15:27]

sphery:

Senkrad_Luna: hmmm... in that case, duplicate channels are unlikely

[19:15:50]

sphery:

Senkrad_Luna: if you'd like to pastebin a backend log showing startup, it may be helpful

[19:15:57]

Senkrad_Luna:

Yeah I have had that before and cleaned it up. But that was over a year ago.

[19:16:30]

Senkrad_Luna:

I'll see what I can make happen. I have not networked it. but I do have a usb stick. :)

[19:19:42]

sphery:

stuartm: you said you were working on making the initial "temporary" GUI a mythui GUI, right?

[19:19:46]

stuartm:

sphery: I'd be tempted to get an HD-PVR except what I use cable for most is on-demand films etc, that wouldn't work well via mythtv ;)

[19:20:03]

sphery:

meaning the one used by the schema wizard?

[19:20:10]

stuartm:

sphery: the database selection stuff yeah, already ported the language selection to mythui

[19:20:14]

sphery:

cool

[19:20:33]

sphery:

that will allow us to add a please wait dialog for the db upgrades

[19:20:37]

sphery:

thanks for that

[19:21:15]

stuartm:

I've been a little sidetracked, doing some stuff for Mark and getting upto speed on git by commiting little unimportant stuff

[19:22:10]

sphery:

yeah, seems I spend more time sidetracked than working on the things I want to/promise to work on

[19:22:24]

sphery:

little things come up that you just have to fix first

[19:34:37]

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[19:36:17]

Diverdude:

can mythtv run as an app on ubuntu or does the macihine boot into myth tv?

[19:36:50]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is not a distro

[19:36:51]

kormoc:

Diverdude, myth is just an application, not an OS

[19:37:32]

Senkrad_Luna:

Ah well the extra reboots after the removal of video source/cards and the re-addition of video source/cards did not help. I'll get the backend log. Any particular area to focus on?

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[19:50:23]

Senkrad_Luna:

2010-12–10 19:41:23.075 Error preparing query: SELECT record.recordid, record.type, record.chanid, record.starttime, record.startdate, record.endtime, record.enddate, record.startoffset, record.endoffset, record.title, record.subtitle, record.description, channel.channum, channel.callsign, channel.name FROM record INNER JOIN channel ON (channel.chanid = record.chanid) LEFT JOIN recordmatch on record.recordid = recordmatch.reco

[19:50:24]

Senkrad_Luna:

rdid WHERE (type = 1 OR type = 2 OR type = 5 OR type = 7) AND recordmatch.chanid IS NULL

[19:50:26]

Senkrad_Luna:

2010-12–10 19:41:23.096 Driver error was [2/144]:

[19:50:28]

Senkrad_Luna:

QMYSQL3: Unable to prepare statement

[19:50:30]

Senkrad_Luna:

Database error was:

[19:50:32]

Senkrad_Luna:

Table './mythconverg/recordmatch' is marked as crashed and last (automatic?) repair failed

[19:50:36]

Senkrad_Luna:

2010-12–10 19:41:23.102 DB Error (AddNotListed):

[19:50:38]

Senkrad_Luna:

Query was:

[19:50:40]

Senkrad_Luna:

SELECT record.recordid, record.type, record.chanid, record.starttime, record.startdate, record.endtime, record.enddate, record.startoffset, record.endoffset, record.title, record.subtitle, record.description, channel.channum, channel.callsign, channel.name FROM record INNER JOIN channel ON (channel.chanid = record.chanid) LEFT JOIN recordmatch on record.recordid = recordmatch.recordid WHERE (type = 1 OR type = 2 OR type = 5 OR

[19:50:42]

Senkrad_Luna:

type = 7) AND recordmatch.chanid IS NULL

[19:50:44]

Senkrad_Luna:

No error type from QSqlError? Strange...

[19:50:46]

Senkrad_Luna:

2010-12–10 19:41:23.158 Scheduled 0 items in 0.3 = 0.11 match + 0.24 place

[19:50:54]

Senkrad_Luna:

Those are the last three entries.

[19:52:39]

Senkrad_Luna:

Does that help or should I go back further?

[19:53:05]

stuartm:

Senkrad_Luna: somewhere on your system, or under the contrib directory if you build from source, you'll find optimize_mythdb.pl – you'll need to run it to repair your database

[19:57:29]

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[20:05:11]

Senkrad_Luna:

Thanks. Done that. Any need for a reboot or rebuild of inputs?

[20:05:55]

wagnerrp:

the only reason you ever need to reboot linux is if you need to switch to a new kernel

[20:06:47]

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[20:08:41]

Senkrad_Luna:

Or if you would rather not be bashing your head after trying everything you can think of. I know with a reboot everything closes especially my dvb-t cards which used to act funny if left on too long.

[20:11:38]

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[20:12:32]

wagnerrp:

unload the driver modules, load them back in, and youre fresh as new

[20:13:01]

Senkrad_Luna:

Better hardware now filters out the electric noise I believe was there but have been able to leave the system running for 3–4 months at a time with out interference. Previously 2 weeks was a long time.

[20:13:34]

Senkrad_Luna:

I will look into that. I dislike rebooting as it takes too long.

[20:13:35]

wagnerrp:

huh?

[20:13:44]

wagnerrp:

electronic noise?

[20:13:50]

wagnerrp:

what are you talking about?

[20:15:03]

sphery:

Senkrad_Luna: +1 on the "because it's often easier than having to know exactly how to stop/start everything properly and in the right order"

[20:15:23]

sphery:

not to mention that rebooting is a great way to make sure that your system will boot properly next time

[20:15:27]

wagnerrp:

if youre talking about old windows machines needing to be rebooted every few days

[20:15:31]

wagnerrp:

that was a windows thing

[20:15:36]

wagnerrp:

it had nothing to do with hardware

[20:15:39]

sphery:

just because you don't /have/ to reboot, doesn't mean you shouldn't :)

[20:15:39]

Senkrad_Luna:

I spent some time exploring the effect of my signal booster on the running of the system and found that there was definitely a sweet spot. Above this and the system would lose signal and start acting funny.

[20:16:12]

wagnerrp:

sphery: sure it does, it means i have to go down into the basement and manually cycle my hard drives

[20:16:23]

sphery:

wagnerrp: though you're right that the resource-exhaustion problem old windows had doesn't apply

[20:16:23]

wagnerrp:

its scary down there

[20:16:55]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh... well some of us don't have so many HDDs in the system that we have to schedule reboots with the power company so they can handle the extra demand for spin up

[20:17:22]

Senkrad_Luna:

I agree with not rebooting in principal. the newer hardware I got a year ago results in significantly fewer problems. Where by brownouts or whatever else was a problem.

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[20:17:33]

sphery:

"wagnerrp needs to reboot his system... Turn on the nuke reactor--to 100%!"

[20:17:34]

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[20:17:48]

Senkrad_Luna:

I have 5 1TB drives, beside the TV.

[20:18:09]

wagnerrp:

sphery: im actually planning on rebooting once im done copying some files, and checking the hard drives

[20:18:23]

wagnerrp:

im wondering if there was some jumper im supposed to flip to tell the drive to start spundown

[20:18:30]

wagnerrp:

instead of spinup as soon as it gets power

[20:18:32]

sphery:

so when there are deals like 3 DVD rentals for $1, it really makes me wonder why some people work so hard to justify stealing movies...

[20:18:46]

sphery:

http://www.redbox.com/groupon being the specific deal I'm talking about

[20:19:06]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I know that the WD Greens have said jumper

[20:19:07]

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[20:19:16]

sphery:

I haven't played with whether it will work without a real RAID setup

[20:19:16]

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[20:19:22]

sphery:

but I keep saying I will

[20:19:29]

sphery:

just to reduce boot-up draw

[20:20:00]

skd5aner:

well, I've got an HD right now that's causing me lots of problems on power-up... for whatever reason, it won't spin up when the computer boots...

[20:20:31]

skd5aner:

I've go to actually unplug and plug the SATA power cable, then do a cold reboot for it to spin-up and be seen by BIOS

[20:20:31]

skd5aner:

:/

[20:20:48]

stuartm:

sphery: because for all their talk, those people just don't want to pay a penny, it's not about big record labels or big movie studios, drm or any of that crap, those are just the excuses they give to cover their shame

[20:21:13]

skd5aner:

It'll power up/spin up when I plug in the power after the machine is already on... major pain and not sure what to do about it, I'm thinking about RMA'ing the drive

[20:21:41]

Senkrad_Luna:

They also mistakenly think they are saving something when sometimes they are just collecting. Like those people with a house full of newspapers.

[20:22:44]

sphery:

stuartm: yeah, probably true

[20:22:45]

Senkrad_Luna:

That drive does sound a problem. If you have another drive that works fine from the same connection then maybe the drive does need replacing.

[20:23:47]

** wagnerrp has his shelves full of media cases to back up his server full of hard drives **

[20:23:50]

sphery:

skd5aner: I had a similar problem with a drive on a PCI SATA card--worked fine when connected on a different system with integrated SATA

[20:24:07]

skd5aner:

sphery: same here – worked on a different (older) system

[20:24:11]

sphery:

don't know if it was due to the SATA controller on the card or the PCI stuff or ...

[20:24:18]

skd5aner:

but both are integrated

[20:24:31]

skd5aner:

and I've got 5 other SATA drives that are working fine

[20:24:38]

skd5aner:

(it's the F3 by the way)

[20:24:44]

sphery:

for me it was just easier to put that drive in my master backend (where it worked) and put a different drive in the remote backend

[20:24:48]

skd5aner:

and, it was working until last week

[20:24:53]

sphery:

wasn't worth digging into the why :)

[20:24:55]

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[20:25:12]

sphery:

that sounds like it could well be overloading the PSU

[20:25:26]

sphery:

if you can enabled delayed spin up on any, it might just work

[20:25:38]

sphery:

PUIS

[20:25:42]

sphery:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-up_in_standby

[20:26:25]

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[20:27:06]

skd5aner:

sphery: I unplugged multiple other drives just to see

[20:27:11]

skd5aner:

I think it's a 550W PSU

[20:29:03]

sphery:

yeah, depending on whether it's a single rail or multiple for the power used by HDD (12V?), it could still be overloading just those rails

[20:29:33]

sphery:

I have a system where i have to plug things into just the right rails to prevent overloading

[20:29:36]

awalls:

skd5aner: smartctl might help diagnose the unit. Using smartctl on my system here I can't see any way to control power saving features though.

[20:29:50]

sphery:

heh, but make sure you apply the firmware fix, first :)

[20:30:38]

skd5aner:

sphery: yea, but it's the F3 acting up, not the F4

[20:31:00]

sphery:

yeah... just thinking that I won't touch smartmontools on my F4-containing system until it's flashed

[20:31:09]

skd5aner:

sphery: I'm did plug in a cable to another modular plug on the PSU just for that HD, but not sure if that's a seperate rail or not

[20:31:17]

sphery:

could do that today... make a quick image of the drive, just in case, then do it

[20:32:26]

skd5aner:

I was going to ask about the "bad blocks" situation – do those blocks marked as bad permanently on the disk?

[20:36:53]

sphery:

good question

[20:39:40]

Senkrad_Luna:

stuartm, that worked thanks my eit data is rebuilding and I have scheduled recordings starting to propagate

[20:40:12]

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[20:40:44]

awalls:

the spin_retry_count SMART attribute might confirm what you already know about the drive and give you basis for an RMA

[20:41:18]

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[20:41:40]

kormoc:

awalls, unless it's a seagate drive, in which case the SMART attributes are meaningless

[20:42:07]

awalls:

Oh. Good to know.

[20:42:42]

** awalls naively thought built in test results would be meaningful, *sigh* **

[20:43:18]

sphery:

that "minor edit' checkbox is too close to the save changes button

[20:44:01]

sphery:

awalls: he's talking about the firmware problem in the Samsung F4 – http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/smartmontool . . . 4EGBadBlocks

[20:45:46]

skd5aner:

which I'm going down into my dark scary basement to fix now

[20:46:03]

** iamlindoro wonders why people all seem to think that when they break their bindings/scripts, it's *MythVideo* with a bug **

[20:46:24]

iamlindoro:

when, after hundreds of complaints due to broken packages, there has *never* been a bug found

[20:46:48]

iamlindoro:

"Before I file a bug..."

[20:46:53]

iamlindoro:

I love that part especially

[20:47:02]

iamlindoro:

DON'T FILE A BUG, IT'S YOUR FAULT

[20:47:58]

awalls:

sphery: Neat, bad blocks on demand. :P

[20:48:45]

sphery:

iamlindoro: heh

[20:48:50]

sphery:

but it can't be /my/ fault

[20:49:05]

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[20:49:14]

sphery:

I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong

[20:49:41]

iamlindoro:

Admittedly, it sounds odd that he says he's getting XML rather than old style output... but since he decided to abbreviate the path to his script, not produce logs, or the output of the grabber, it's impossible to know

[20:49:57]

sphery:

kormoc: did you see the graph stuartm linked earlier today--the one that showed a very high failure rate for WD Blacks?

[20:50:00]

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[20:51:18]

sphery:

heh, yeah, real logs are much better than, "let me summarize the log information /I/ think is important in my own words"

[20:52:40]

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[20:54:04]

sphery:

kormoc: fwiw, http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/12/10/hdd_ssd_fail . . . _2tb_hdd.jpg graph--don't know what article it's from for context

[20:54:25]

Senkrad_Luna:

Anyone find a way of encouraging the EIT scan?

[20:54:33]

sphery:

ah, this one: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/10/flash . . . re_than_hdd/

[20:56:49]

iamlindoro:

Senkrad_Luna: Tell it that it's pretty, and that you don't care what the other kids say, and that when it's older, it'll be glad it didn't peak in high school?

[20:57:02]

Shadow__X:

wow 2tb WD blacks have a high failure rate

[20:58:20]

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[20:58:22]

Senkrad_Luna:

I tried that and my wife started talking suggestively to but still no luck.

[20:59:05]

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[20:59:19]

iamlindoro:

Otherwise, if you mean you're trying to get it to run, you'll just need to let the tuners sit idle for a bit

[20:59:25]

iamlindoro:

You can't manually trigger it

[21:00:00]

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[21:00:05]

sphery:

assuming you're using active eit--otherwise, if you're using passive eit, you need to tune/watch/record some channels

[21:00:41]

Senkrad_Luna:

4 tuners watching one now. I will switch to number 4 to see if that helps

[21:01:14]

sphery:

then you likely just need to wait for it to actually find some data

[21:03:07]

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[21:04:18]

stuartm:

collected EIT events are pushed to the database every 5 minutes, so it can take at least that long before you start seeing data, more likely 10+ minutes and it doesn't arrive in any order so it might start populating the EPG 7 days out before you get data for the current day

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[21:34:16]

kormoc:

sphery, uh oh!

[21:35:32]

kormoc:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/10/flash . . . re_than_hdd/ is the story

[21:36:01]

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[21:36:18]

kormoc:

"Hardware.fr obtained its component failure rate statistics from an unidentified retailer's repairs and returns databa"

[21:36:24]

kormoc:

seems kinda shady

[21:36:35]

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[21:45:36]

wagnerrp:

sphery: my WD blacks report PIUS works if you jumper pins 3–4

[21:45:47]

wagnerrp:

do you know if that holds true for the greens?

[21:46:01]

wagnerrp:

i havent seen anything one way or the other on those drives

[21:46:59]

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[21:48:35]

wagnerrp:

ah, it seems so

[21:48:48]

wagnerrp:

3–4 all around!

[21:50:55]

sphery:

wagnerrp: did you jumper them and try it with a normal, non-raid controller?

[21:50:58]

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[21:56:30]

skd5aner:

sphery: flash of the f4 was pretty simple (sort of) – had some issues trying to get UBCD/Freedos working correctly with the program, but once I got that figured out, seemed to work

[21:56:43]

sphery:

nice

[21:56:50]

skd5aner:

sphery: samsung is rediculously stupid for using the exact same version number for the firmware :P

[21:56:51]

sphery:

and no data loss, right? :)

[21:56:55]

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[21:57:12]

skd5aner:

sphery: I don't believe so, then again – I've not really used it much because I knew of the firmware issue before I installed it

[21:57:30]

sphery:

cool

[21:57:36]

skd5aner:

sphery: I suppose now it'd be safe to check for bad blocks on the disk though

[21:57:58]

sphery:

I only have like 10GB on mine--but it's actually rather useful data--so I'll back it up before the firmware rewrite

[21:59:19]

skd5aner:

one piece of advice... it says to make sure to power off (not do a warm-boot) after applying the patch

[21:59:39]

sphery:

ah, good to know

[22:00:01]

skd5aner:

However, I've decided I'm going to RMA my F3... my PSU has 4 12v rails, and I've tried 3/5 of the differnet modular plugs on the PSU...

[22:00:25]

skd5aner:

so, I've got to use the F4 to move over all that data (recordings) while I send the F3 back

[22:00:26]

skd5aner:

oh well

[22:00:56]

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[22:01:28]

sphery:

have you tried the F3 in isolation?

[22:01:37]

sphery:

i.e. as the only drive (or one of only 2) in the system?

[22:01:46]

skd5aner:

Yup

[22:01:56]

sphery:

ah, and it still doesn't work that way :(

[22:01:58]

skd5aner:

unplugged all the rest (except OS drive)

[22:02:06]

skd5aner:

well, it does, but only about 10% of the time

[22:02:17]

skd5aner:

or, on warm-boot when I manually plug it in 80%

[22:02:39]

skd5aner:

the weird thing is it sounds like the head is clicking on some occasions when I do that though, so not a good solution obviously

[22:03:00]

sphery:

I had another drive that didn't work right because it was being queried by the SATA controller before it was initialized

[22:03:27]

sphery:

ended up telling my system to not do the quick boot (so it wastes time doing a full POST) to give the drive enough time to init before it's queried

[22:04:22]

jams:

sphery- no option for hard drive delay inthe bios?

[22:04:49]

sphery:

no, not on this sytem--it's an old one

[22:05:01]

jams:

to bad

[22:05:11]

sphery:

yeah--especially since POST only happens on cold boot :(

[22:06:33]

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[22:07:36]

skd5aner:

If I put my hand on the drive after a cold boot, I never feel the drive spin up (or hear it either)

[22:07:57]

skd5aner:

ls

[22:09:05]

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[22:10:53]

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[22:10:59]

jurco:

Hi guys. I would like to ask someone to help me to configure MythTV to run properly. I installed it day ago, finally I found some TV channels. But when I run frontend and I choose Watch TV, I get wait please... message and then nothing – back to main menu. How do I find out where the problem is?

[22:12:30]

kenni:

jurco: look in your logs

[22:13:19]

jurco:

I did but it didnt help...

[22:14:15]

jurco:

frontend log says MediaMonitorUnix::AddDevice() – empty device path. and also: Spawning LiveTV Recorder — begin 2010-12–10 22:58:23.960 MythSocket(a1e50a0:52): readStringList: Error, timed out after 7000 ms. 2010-12–10 22:58:23.960 RemoteEncoder::SendReceiveStringList(): No response.

[22:14:34]

jurco:

backend has some errors too...

[22:14:42]

kormoc:

jurco, pastebin both complete logs please

[22:17:00]

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[22:18:36]

jurco:

frontend log: http://pastebin.com/Ui0PtFKg

[22:19:09]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no, im using them on a hardware RAID controller

[22:19:16]

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[22:19:19]

wagnerrp:

i couldnt manage to find jumpers for my seagates or samsungs

[22:19:25]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ah, just wondered...

[22:19:25]

wagnerrp:

but apparently they can be set through the ATA commands

[22:19:40]

sphery:

yeah, I haven't seen any reference to seagates having such jumpers

[22:19:45]

wagnerrp:

about to start it up and see what happens

[22:20:09]

sphery:

hadn't looked for samsung's, yet, though--so thanks for saving me the trouble :)

[22:20:17]

jurco:

kormoc: backend log: http://pastebin.com/QAbZdVZp

[22:23:09]

kenni:

jurco: have you setup your tuner to startup on a non-existing channel?

[22:23:25]

kenni:

jurco: or left it empty?

[22:24:26]

jurco:

kenni: I dont remember to sut up this.

[22:24:50]

jurco:

where should I choose some channel?

[22:24:59]

kenni:

jurco: in mythtv-setup under video sources or input connections

[22:25:08]

kenni:

jurco: I can't remember which one

[22:27:25]

jurco:

I set both. In video sources I created new source with no grabber and input connections is set to Television > Input connections (name of it)

[22:28:30]

kenni:

jurco: one of them should have a setting called "Start on channel: X" or something like that

[22:29:53]

kenni:

jurco: I'm guessing at that, since you have "Error: GetCurrentChannelNum(): Failed to find Channel" in your log...from memory I'm fairly sure that should contain the channel number, eg. "GetCurrentChannelNum(5)"

[22:31:19]

Shadow__X:

wagnerrp: i was reading the scroll back what do you mean by pius on your wd blacks

[22:32:19]

jurco:

Maybe: Preset tuner to channel... but I dont know channel name. I have all found channels called Unnamed: 1002 etc in Channel editor

[22:33:15]

kenni:

jurco: exactly...you should be able to just select one of your channels by click right or left when you have selected the field

[22:33:34]

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[22:37:17]

skd5aner:

sphery: badblocks -svw -b 4096 /dev/sde 4000000

[22:37:23]

skd5aner:

Pass completed, 0 bad blocks found.

[22:37:25]

skd5aner:

;)

[22:37:28]

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[22:37:52]

wagnerrp:

sphery: well that was a bust

[22:37:58]

wagnerrp:

'no arrays detected'

[22:37:59]

wagnerrp:

whoops

[22:38:05]

wagnerrp:

Shadow__X: power up in standby

[22:38:10]

jurco:

well there are no options to choose from... I can just tyle manually.

[22:38:20]

Shadow__X:

oh ok thanks

[22:38:20]

wagnerrp:

means the hard drives wont spin up until they get a signal from the controller

[22:38:29]

wagnerrp:

allows for staggered spinup by controllers that allow it

[22:38:39]

Shadow__X:

hmm yeah

[22:38:45]

dustybin:

mythtv is not what you see, there are so many treasures to find

[22:38:52]

wagnerrp:

so you dont need an 800W power supply to run 16 hard drives, when idling theyre only going to pull ~150

[22:39:02]

Shadow__X:

right

[22:39:46]

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[22:39:48]

kenni:

jurco: if you can't select any channels by clicking left or right, then you haven't configured your channels correctly.

[22:39:56]

** J-e-f-f-A has a 600W supply with 10 HDD's... ;-) **

[22:40:13]

dustybin:

mythtv = world wide open-source televsion multimeda entertainment, i dont think there is anything to compare it to

[22:40:33]

iamlindoro:

dustybin: don't stat

[22:40:35]

iamlindoro:

start

[22:40:45]

jurco:

kenni: I found some and I have them in channel editor. And they are all Unnamed

[22:40:52]

dustybin:

iamlindoro: i didnt realise you was here, i only drink on friday after work

[22:41:22]

J-e-f-f-A:

?

[22:41:47]

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[22:41:47]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A: ive got a 650 for 13 hard drives (formerly 15)

[22:41:52]

dustybin:

i will be banned in june unless i come up with something

[22:41:54]

wagnerrp:

and its just not enough umph

[22:42:28]

iamlindoro:

dustybin: You will be banned today if you keep talking

[22:42:33]

Shadow__X:

i have a 450 with i think 6 drives and i think i am just about hit the limit

[22:42:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: ouch. My system has been behaving with the 600 for a couple of years now. I just bought a 600W 80Plus to replace it, just to get some better power savings.

[22:42:52]

dustybin:

iamlindoro: i always respect your word

[22:43:34]

jurco:

kenni: I suspect connection to DB. I am not sure is the channels are saved in DB

[22:44:00]

wagnerrp:

between that old opteron, another dual core amd, both with ~70% eff PSUs, two network switches, 16 total hard drives, modem, Geode firewall, tuner, phone ata, wifi ap

[22:44:08]

kenni:

jurco: no, there're no signs of DB connection problems...

[22:44:09]

wagnerrp:

im pulling around 300W at the UPS under load

[22:44:31]

wagnerrp:

but unless i stagger my hard drives on boot, it exceeds the capacity of the PSU

[22:44:36]

dustybin:

iamlindoro: sure you dislike me because i havent contributed anything yet, however, ive been exploring the open-source world, and surely thats not a bad thing

[22:44:40]

wagnerrp:

its not like im pulling anywhere near the 650W limit

[22:44:46]

wagnerrp:

its a problem with where the power is provided

[22:44:55]

wagnerrp:

its like im branching the plugs too far

[22:45:01]

wagnerrp:

or it has power on the wrong rails

[22:45:09]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: My whole setup uses somwhere around that (monitor, hd-pvrs, stb's, etc) – not just my main myth server.

[22:45:25]

wagnerrp:

if i were anywhere near 650W, i would have already blown my PSU limit

[22:45:31]

wagnerrp:

oh, and ive got an old CRT on that too

[22:45:43]

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[22:45:52]

wagnerrp:

its a 1250VA, so thats probably what... 700W?

[22:46:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Ah. ;-) I ran a dedicated pair of 20A circuits for my myth box, very little loss – the breaker panel is only 15' across the room. ;-)

[22:46:28]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Probably about there... maybe a little more. I've got a 1100VA

[22:46:46]

Shadow__X:

wagnerrp: do you have multiple 12v rails or a single beefy one

[22:47:07]

wagnerrp:

Shadow__X: probably multiple

[22:47:07]

kenni:

jurco: something is wrong with your channels if you can't select them as starting channels...do they have a channel number? do they use the right video source?

[22:47:11]

wagnerrp:

its an old Antec PSU

[22:47:14]

wagnerrp:

maybe 5yrs old

[22:47:35]

dustybin:

iamlindoro: how often do you change the bulb in your projector, and are the bulbs expensive?

[22:47:50]

iamlindoro:

As often as it requires it, and yes

[22:47:52]

Shadow__X:

wagnerrp: it would probably do better if it was a single one

[22:48:00]

** J-e-f-f-A laughs **

[22:48:16]

iamlindoro:

hey wagnerrp, want to practice kickbans?

[22:48:28]

** wagnerrp has no idea how **

[22:48:33]

iamlindoro:

I can teach you

[22:48:34]

iamlindoro:

:)

[22:48:39]

sphery:

wagnerrp: do you need to enable it on your raid card?

[22:48:40]

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[22:48:45]

iamlindoro:

/msg chanserv op #mythtv-users iamlindoro

[22:48:51]

iamlindoro:

(substitute name)

[22:48:56]

iamlindoro:

/kickban dustybin

[22:49:00]

iamlindoro:

easy!

[22:49:04]

dustybin:

im a straight forward mythtv-user, not a developer like you guys, ive been using mythtv since debian sarge

[22:49:08]

** J-e-f-f-A laughs more ;-) **

[22:49:15]

wagnerrp:

besides, i have to explain to the mythical guy the difference between processing XML as XML, and processing XML as text because bash sucks

[22:49:21]

jurco:

kenni: They have channel numbers and name (Unnamed: 1044) for example. Hw do you look for channels?

[22:49:22]

** Shadow__X opens eyes **

[22:50:12]

kenni:

jurco: do they use the right video source?

[22:50:37]

kenni:

jurco: what do you mean with "look for channels"?

[22:50:49]

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[22:50:50]

Shadow__X:

does anyone know the loss of esata cables. A friend of mine wants to run a external enclosure in a closet with esata cables

[22:50:56]

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[22:50:57]

dustybin:

when i come into the mythtv-user channel i feel like im sorrounded by intellgent devs rather than normal users

[22:51:08]

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[22:51:35]

jurco:

I have only one video source with no grabber and channel freq.table set to europe-east

[22:51:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

Shadow__X: Since they're differential signals, I would think it'd be minimal... Unless the latency of a long cable causes issues.

[22:51:41]

kenni:

jurco: "right video source" = the same as the one you're configuring to start on channel X

[22:51:44]

wagnerrp:

Shadow__X: esata is good for 2 meters

[22:51:54]

wagnerrp:

any devices and cables you buy should be good for 2 meters

[22:52:38]

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[22:53:21]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +q *!*@78-86-171-176.zone2.bethere.co.uk

[22:53:47]

iamlindoro:

ah, yay!

[22:53:50]

** wagnerrp wonders why the channel suddenly got so quiet **

[22:53:53]

kenni:

lol

[22:53:54]

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[22:54:06]

Shadow__X:

ah ok thanks. I didn't realise it would work that far but still not far enough to run to a closet

[22:54:42]

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[22:55:53]

J-e-f-f-A:

Shadow__X: I think firewire can go much further, but alas, not as fast as SATA...

[22:56:59]

Shadow__X:

yes. The real problem is that the person wants a lot of storage but doesnt necessarily want a dedicated server for it(Although that makes my life easier).

[22:57:11]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[22:57:21]

Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : -q *!*@78-86-171-176.zone2.bethere.co.u

[22:57:49]

Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : -q *!*@78-86-171-176.zone2.bethere.co.uk

[22:58:03]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro

[22:58:14]

skd5aner:

so....

[22:58:18]

skd5aner:

weird...

[22:58:37]

iamlindoro:

I can't tell whether he enjoys the negative attention or what

[22:58:46]

iamlindoro:

but every time he speaks it's clear he's looking for it

[23:00:17]

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[23:03:43]

kormoc:

at least he's not as horrible as that guy the other day who refused to let us help him while complaining that we're ignoring his bug

[23:03:58]

skd5aner:

how come my shell's autocomplete is bringing up /dev/scd0 when I tab at /dev/? if I do a /dev/sd *tab* then it'll autocomplete all the sda/b/c/etc entries...

[23:04:36]

skd5aner:

but why isn't it doing the typical "display all ### entries" or whatever the message would be, instead it's just autocompleting one option

[23:05:28]

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[23:06:32]

k_ross:

maybe you have the bash-completion package installed, and it's trying to be too smart?

[23:06:49]

skd5aner:

hmmm, seems to only happen with "mount" preceding it

[23:07:25]

kormoc:

perhaps cause your /dev/sd* are already mounted?

[23:07:48]

skd5aner:

nah, got a few unmounted

[23:07:54]

k_ross:

ahh, with bash_completion, when you type "mount /dev/sd" then tab, it will look for matching entries is /etc/fstab

[23:07:56]

skd5aner:

it also does it for the mountpoint...

[23:07:57]

kormoc:

skd5aner, bash completeion is entirely customizable and as smart or stupid as you want, so perhaps a distro decided to change it

[23:08:14]

skd5aner:

kormoc: could be... it's ubuntu 10.10 :/

[23:08:39]

skd5aner:

oh well, I can live with it, luckily it's only mount that's giving me the issues that I can tell

[23:08:48]

sphery:

skd5aner: which dos did you use to run the fw update?

[23:08:51]

sphery:

freedos?

[23:09:04]

skd5aner:

Yes... I used Ultimate Boot CD

[23:09:09]

skd5aner:

which has freedos

[23:09:12]

sphery:

that has dos, too?

[23:09:14]

sphery:

is it ultimate

[23:09:23]

sphery:

I was going to get fdfullcd.iso from freedos.org

[23:09:25]

skd5aner:

UBCD

[23:09:35]

sphery:

how did you get the flash program into the system?

[23:09:35]

kormoc:

it's X-ZOMG Ultimate!

[23:09:37]

skd5aner:

Yea, that probably would work just as well

[23:09:44]

sphery:

does it support usb flash drives?

[23:09:56]

sphery:

or did you do a floppy thing?

[23:10:04]

skd5aner:

I created an UBCD with the file at the root, and just launced the EXE from within freedos

[23:10:10]

sphery:

ahhh

[23:10:16]

sphery:

sounds like work...

[23:10:24]

skd5aner:

Not too much...

[23:10:35]

sphery:

more than plugging in my floppy drive :)

[23:10:49]

skd5aner:

I did have one issue... when booting into freedos, via ubcd, I had to choose a slightly different boot option from the default

[23:10:55]

skd5aner:

sphery: yes, definitely :)

[23:11:20]

sphery:

ooh, and I could use the opportunity to splice my floppy drive power connector onto my power adapter and heat shrink the cables

[23:11:37]

skd5aner:

point being, it'll launch from freedos, so if you can get into that – and have access to the file, you'll be fine (lots o' ways to do that)

[23:12:31]

skd5aner:

the default boot option from UBCD did not seem play well – the firmware update would launch, and find the drive, but then complain about it only accepting smart commands

[23:12:42]

skd5aner:

tried the second option, and it worked fine

[23:12:50]

skd5aner:

not sure if that was a freedos issue or UBCD issue

[23:15:16]

skd5aner:

Stupid samsung won't RMA drives until the receive the broken one – It'd be nice to get the new one while I still have the old so I don't have to find some place to dump 1.3TB of data while I wait :P

[23:15:20]

sphery:

hmmm... my disk image finished before I figured out how to run the actual firmware update.

[23:15:23]

sphery:

I'm getting slow

[23:15:46]

skd5aner:

sphery: someone linked to this – http://idolinux.blogspot.com/2009/10/create-d . . . or-grub.html

[23:16:00]

skd5aner:

the fdos link doesn't work, but the one's you found should work in its place

[23:21:13]

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[23:29:11]

Senkrad_Luna:

Before I sign off for the evening, on the topic of power supplies mine is 1250w and only 5 drives(I plan to go to 15) however I have found that the quality of the PSU has protected my system a lot from brownouts and made blackouts be handled more smoothly. So please invest in a quality power supply even if small it will save you enough hours to make it worth the cost. Enermax Revolution 85+ 1250 £250 definite overkill for what

[23:29:13]

Senkrad_Luna:

the system does but has saved me loads of time.

[23:31:13]

ablyss:

hi everyone.. hope all is well on the mythtv world.

[23:34:40]

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[23:45:06]

neolive_:

anyone here interested in broadcasting/

[23:45:24]

neolive_ is now known as neolive

[23:45:24]

kenni:

I'm out of ideas...if this is not a bug in jamu, then I would really apreciate a pointer towards what the problem might be...I'm unable to get jamu to download fanart for shows which only exists with non-english titles on thetvdb.com... http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/2016013 illustrates the problem

[23:46:53]

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[23:49:57]

kenni:

comparing the output with a working title, eg. Mythbusters, the problematic title never gets to "DEBUG Checking for a key in (fanart:http://www.thetvdb.com/banners/fanart/original/......"

[23:49:57]

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[23:52:52]

kenni:

oh, well, I'll probably have to dig into the code – it's python after all, so it should be fairly straight forward :)

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MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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