Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, October 15th, 2010, 00:02 UTC

[00:02:09]

Baylink:

Ok: never mind. Different question: does the backend now buffer log output that it didn't used to? *Now* I have log output. No, this can't be buffering over 2 days, either. <sigh> Confused now.

[00:02:25]

clever:

wagnerrp: http://pastebin.com/6Pqvrwif something like this i think

[00:02:26]

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[00:02:27]

darkdrgn2k3:

hey all

[00:02:36]

darkdrgn2k3:

whats the best res for a VGA hookup to a HDTV?

[00:02:53]

Baylink:

The native resolution of the panel?

[00:03:06]

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[00:03:11]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v xris

[00:03:17]

wagnerrp:

no, 720p or 1080p, which ever one the panel is advertised as

[00:03:37]

wagnerrp:

even if you could output the native resolution of the panel, its still going to scale anyway

[00:03:41]

wagnerrp:

so theres no point trying

[00:03:44]

Baylink:

I suspect the real question is: does your VGA adapter have hardware MPEG2/4, and what's it's maximum res.

[00:03:47]

clever:

that reminds me, i'm getting some nasty effects on this monitor&laptop, the pixels dont match 1:1

[00:04:06]

darkdrgn2k3:

1366 x 768?

[00:04:08]

k-man:

darkdrgn2k3: i believe that many HDTVs don't do full res from their vga input

[00:04:22]

k-man:

darkdrgn2k3: but i could be wrong, check your manual

[00:04:22]

Baylink:

Well, wagnerrp, 1080p would be 1920x1080, which would *be* the native res, no?

[00:04:25]

wagnerrp:

clever: yeah, thats the solution i came to as well

[00:04:42]

clever:

k-man: my hdtv&old_laptop cant even get near full screen

[00:04:42]

wagnerrp:

Baylink: sure, but even a 1080p native screen will overscan

[00:04:48]

clever:

the freq the laptop outputs is all wrong

[00:04:48]

wagnerrp:

meaning it will enlarge and crop the image

[00:04:56]

clever:

its not centered and nowhere near square

[00:05:08]

wagnerrp:

but im talking about claimed 720p screens that are actually 1366x768, or some such nonsense

[00:05:25]

darkdrgn2k3:

http://www.sharpusa.com/ForHome/HomeEntertain . . . 9SB28UT.aspx

[00:05:44]

clever:

k-man: gave up using that laptop and now its perfect FULL screen (full wide screen, oddly)

[00:05:58]

wagnerrp:

Baylink: my point is, give it the resolution it expects to get and is designed to get, not some strange resolution that you want to use because you think you know better

[00:06:09]

mersault:

Hello. I have a a mythtv 0.22, and I want to do a fresh install with mythtv 0.23, but I'd like to retain my recordings. Is it possible, and if so, which tables should I dump from my original mythtv installation and import into the new one?

[00:06:14]

darkdrgn2k3:

says res is 1366x768

[00:06:33]

wagnerrp:

darkdrgn2k3: is that what EDID gave you?

[00:06:42]

darkdrgn2k3:

edid? no manual

[00:06:44]

wagnerrp:

or is that what some spec sheet gave you

[00:06:46]

clever:

wagnerrp: how do i query the edid again?

[00:07:01]

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[00:07:10]

wagnerrp:

clever: remove any mode definitions, and let the graphics driver choose the best one

[00:07:29]

darkdrgn2k3:

Modes "nvidia-auto-select" ?

[00:07:35]

wagnerrp:

im sure theres a more direct way to do so, but not one i know of off hand

[00:07:49]

Baylink:

Well, that's an awfully combative response to a comment that didn't actually suggest *doing* anything outre ... :-)

[00:08:13]

clever:

wagnerrp: ack, dont have xrandr installed

[00:08:39]

wagnerrp:

Baylink: im not trying to be combative, just trying to head off some hours long quest to build the 'perfect' custom modeline

[00:09:31]

clever:

wagnerrp: this problematic laptop (older one) is putting out the native res of the monitor, and doesnt fit

[00:09:45]

clever:

i pushed the width/height controls to the limit and its still 'overscanning'

[00:10:24]

clever:

as for the laptop on the HDTV, it seems to be at 1360x768

[00:10:32]

wagnerrp:

width/height controls... the screen setup wizard?

[00:10:35]

clever:

darkdrgn2k3: i got 6 more pixels then you!

[00:10:35]

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[00:10:42]

clever:

wagnerrp: within the monitors OSD

[00:11:07]

wagnerrp:

so then just fix it with the screen setup wizard in mythtv, and youre done

[00:11:28]

clever:

wagnerrp: i'm using it as a desktop machine at this moment, its just enough overscan to cut the taskbar off

[00:11:33]

clever:

and the last word in websites

[00:11:34]

Baylink:

Won't get one from me. ;-)

[00:12:33]

clever:

darkdrgn2k3: wait oops, you have 6 more them me, got them backwards

[00:12:54]

clever:

the HDTV's laptop is at 1360x768 and appears to look right, but sometimes it looks to switch to SD with bars all around

[00:12:59]

clever:

not sure if its the broadcaster or the tv

[00:13:42]

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[00:14:58]

clever:

just noticed, the same page with the monitors native res, also has the dot clocks and scan rates, maybe i can just enter them into xvidtune

[00:21:01]

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[00:21:10]

Chicago:

Hello

[00:22:12]

clever:

wagnerrp: weird, the monitor said that was 46hz (flashing, i dont think it liked it), but xvidtune said 50.79hz

[00:23:26]

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[00:25:59]

clever:

na, refusing to fit on the craptastic laptop

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[00:39:03]

darkdrgn2k3:

ok this is driving me nutz now

[00:39:03]

darkdrgn2k3:

i get

[00:39:04]

darkdrgn2k3:

(nvidia-settings:1912): Pango-WARNING **: failed to choose a font, expect ugly output. engine-type='PangoRenderFc', script='common'

[00:39:09]

darkdrgn2k3:

and fc-query returns nothing

[00:45:55]

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[00:47:09]

darkdrgn2k3:

(WW) NVIDIA(0): Unable to get display device CRT-0's EDID; cannot compute DPI

[00:47:09]

darkdrgn2k3:

(WW) NVIDIA(0): from CRT-0's EDID.

[00:50:05]

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[00:59:05]

wagnerrp:

george takai can be /really/ creepy when he wants

[00:59:38]

clever:

wagnerrp: ?

[00:59:57]

wagnerrp:

watch the end of the big bang theory

[01:00:01]

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[01:00:07]

k-man:

which window manager do you guys use?

[01:00:15]

k-man:

for the frontend i mean

[01:00:16]

clever:

wagnerrp: i just saw that comercial not even 30 seconds before you said that:P

[01:00:29]

wagnerrp:

evilwm and ratpoison are both extremely light

[01:00:30]

clever:

i had a feeling thats what you where referencing, but from the time-lag of myth i wasnt sure

[01:01:06]

clever:

one minor problem i have with ratpoison, is that mplayer fullscreen seems to leave a 1 pixel line on the side of the screen un-covered

[01:01:10]

clever:

not sure which app is causing it

[01:02:45]

k-man:

wagnerrp: ah yeah, ratpoison, i forgot about that one, i used to use that once

[01:04:05]

k-man:

evilwm looks good too

[01:04:19]

wagnerrp:

they both look like nothing

[01:04:27]

wagnerrp:

they have no menus, no bars, no anything

[01:04:34]

wagnerrp:

keyboard shortcuts only

[01:04:42]

k-man:

yeah, thats good for me

[01:04:46]

k-man:

its only for the FE

[01:05:05]

k-man:

i plan to do some long overdue cleaning up on my mythbox on the weekend

[01:05:15]

k-man:

including getting rid of the overweight wm i currently seem to have

[01:05:46]

clever:

k-man: i just did some long-overdue replacement of my FE, changed the laptop&distro and properly setup lirc this time

[01:05:58]

clever:

working great, except for that fact that its on wifi

[01:06:24]

k-man:

clever: cool

[01:06:48]

k-man:

my stand alone dvd player died a few weeks ago too

[01:07:02]

k-man:

and the dvd drive in my fe was broken, so im going to replace that

[01:07:08]

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[01:07:30]

clever:

the dvd drive in my old FE died long ago, battery&hdd too

[01:07:41]

clever:

and the lcd hinges failed once or twice

[01:08:11]

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[01:21:36]

Baylink:

Is there a snap answer for this error message, guys? "DevRdB(/dev/video0) Error: Start(): pthread_create failed. eno: Resource temporarily unavailable (11)"

[01:21:53]

Baylink:

3 Hauppauge tuners.

[01:22:00]

Baylink:

150/250/350

[01:23:02]

Baylink:

Those get followed by "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::bad_alloc' what(): std::bad_alloc"

[01:24:27]

clever:

2010-10–14 22:23:49.517 NVP(0), Error: Timed out waiting for prebuffering too long. Exiting..

[01:24:43]

clever:

stupid thing, i tried to pause it and save a bookmark before it got this bad

[01:25:06]

clever:

and now its spamming that error, seems it cant exit!

[01:25:11]

sphery:

Baylink: make sure you're running 0.23-fixes [26695] or higher

[01:25:15]

clever:

2010-10–14 22:24:25.124 NVP(0), Error: Unknown recorder error, exiting decoder

[01:27:11]

clever:

2010-10–14 22:26:35.315 NVP(0), Warning: Waited too long for decoder to pause

[01:27:17]

clever:

and then an inf loop of spam:O

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[01:41:15]

sphery:

Heh, I set up my system to record the ABC show My Generation because it was a new series. It never recorded any episodes of the series before they cancelled it, but it did record 4 episodes of a PBS show called My Generation, that actually looks /much/ more interesting than the ABC show.

[01:42:06]

clever:

lol :D

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[02:10:45]

Baylink:

sphery: .23.1 packaged release for SuSE has known bugs then?

[02:10:59]

Beirdo:

SuSE?!

[02:11:01]

Beirdo:

heh

[02:11:11]

wagnerrp:

oof... this thread pool crap is really getting troublesome

[02:11:16]

Beirdo:

some people just have to be obtuse :)

[02:11:22]

Baylink:

Behave, Gavin. :-)

[02:11:24]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: what have you set it to?

[02:11:33]

wagnerrp:

20, still getting filled

[02:11:35]

Beirdo:

Baylink: no :)

[02:11:49]

wagnerrp:

lost the first couple minutes of three shows tonight because of it

[02:11:55]

Baylink:

do we have a troutbot here?

[02:11:55]

Beirdo:

wow, what all are you running? this is mythfs?

[02:12:04]

Beirdo:

!trout Baylink

[02:12:04]

** MythLogBot slaps Baylink with a trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[02:12:08]

Beirdo:

you guess :)

[02:12:10]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:12:14]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: thats the only thing i can think of

[02:12:16]

Baylink:

That's not quite how I envisioned that...

[02:12:19]

wagnerrp:

but that doesnt make any sense

[02:12:25]

wagnerrp:

as it only accesses mythproto

[02:12:25]

Baylink:

Bahstahd.

[02:12:31]

wagnerrp:

not the http server

[02:12:34]

Beirdo:

yeah, I don't get it either.

[02:12:35]

[R]:

has something i changed

[02:12:38]

[R]:

i just saw a changeset

[02:12:38]

[R]:

Enable OSD fade for all VDPAU profiles and disable it for the Slim Xv profile.

[02:12:42]

wagnerrp:

and even then, ive only opened a couple files

[02:12:46]

Beirdo:

hmm...

[02:12:47]

[R]:

its always screwd up when i enabled osd fade for vdpau...

[02:12:49]

wagnerrp:

certainly not enough to fill all 20 slots

[02:13:02]

[R]:

has something changed*

[02:13:14]

Baylink:

how do I find out what the changeset number is for .23.1?

[02:13:46]

sphery:

Baylink: what does mythbackend --version show for revision

[02:13:47]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: no MythXML?

[02:14:05]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i lost the first four minutes of the office, fringe, and outsourced

[02:14:09]

Baylink:

Can I do that while its otherwise running?

[02:14:16]

wagnerrp:

since the SBE they were recording on couldnt connect to something

[02:14:30]

sphery:

Baylink: yep, it just runs a new binary and never even contacts the running backend

[02:14:31]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: no, mythfs does not use MythXML for anything

[02:14:34]

Baylink:

Well, the log says mythbackend version: tags/release-0-23–1 [0.23.1]

[02:14:37]

sphery:

new process that is

[02:14:54]

wagnerrp:

and mythfs shouldnt even be sucking down many connections

[02:14:59]

Baylink:

Aaaand... so does the --version

[02:15:05]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: I wish there were an easy way to debug what each of the workers was doing

[02:15:10]

sphery:

hmmm... well that would be [25397]

[02:15:14]

wagnerrp:

it will open /at most/ one main connection, and then one additional connection for each file transfer

[02:15:17]

Baylink:

Ah.

[02:15:22]

sphery:

you really need to get your packager to build packages using 0.23-fixes

[02:15:25]

Beirdo:

file transfer?

[02:15:26]

sphery:

and get current 0.23-fixes

[02:15:26]

Baylink:

IOW: yes, fixes is newer, but unpackaged.

[02:15:32]

wagnerrp:

but even then, those are mythproto connections, nothing to do with the web server

[02:15:39]

Beirdo:

I think file transfer is web server

[02:15:40]

sphery:

or at least have an option to allow SuSE users to get current 0.23-fixes

[02:15:53]

Baylink:

We're spoiled. .22 was really solid, forever.

[02:15:55]

Beirdo:

or can be

[02:16:05]

Beirdo:

I have an idea

[02:16:16]

sphery:

Baylink: FWIW, something changed underneath MythTV that's causing the V4L API to act differently

[02:16:20]

Beirdo:

netstat -tapn | grep 6544

[02:16:20]

Baylink:

I figured .23.1 was enough settling time; I don't have a dev box.

[02:16:35]

Baylink:

Yeah; there was a kernel and IVTV upgrade too.

[02:16:35]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/ANN_%28Myth_Protocol%29#ANN_FileTransfer

[02:16:36]

sphery:

Baylink: either drivers or V4L itself or even the kernel

[02:16:44]

Baylink:

Whole New Boot Drive.

[02:16:49]

sphery:

Baylink: interesting... that's probably what's causing it

[02:16:53]

Beirdo:

might have to be root to do that, BTW

[02:16:58]

sphery:

it hit the Ubuntu users a month or so ago

[02:17:00]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: im not even connecting to the MBE

[02:17:08]

wagnerrp:

the recordings i was viewing were all on the SBE

[02:17:18]

Baylink:

And .23.1 predates that kernel, then?

[02:17:19]

sphery:

Baylink: do you happen to know which kernel versions (before and after) and/or ivtv versions?

[02:17:41]

sphery:

Baylink: 0.23-fixes doesn't have a "fix" for that

[02:17:44]

Baylink:

The current kernel is 2.6.34.7 from SuSE 11.3

[02:17:48]

Baylink:

the IVTV is, I think 1.4.1

[02:17:53]

Beirdo:

well, do that on the MBE when it gets hosed

[02:17:55]

sphery:

Baylink: it actually has a /workaround/ for when the V4L API is boneheaded

[02:18:02]

Beirdo:

that should show all of the connections

[02:18:11]

sphery:

i.e. someone needs to fix V4L or something :)

[02:18:16]

Baylink:

nice...

[02:18:26]

wagnerrp:

ive got a crapload of connections between the backend and mythweb

[02:18:32]

sphery:

maybe I can ask Devin if he knows what it could be when he's in here sometime

[02:18:32]

Baylink:

Is anyone digging at the spot marked x? ticket?

[02:18:40]

wagnerrp:

nothing with the SBE, or the machine im using mythfs on

[02:19:02]

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[02:19:12]

Beirdo:

hmmm, how much of a crapload to mythweb?

[02:19:21]

sphery:

Baylink: basically, what 0.23-fixes will now do (at [26695] and above) is keep retrying up to 20 times/10 seconds when the card says it's busy

[02:19:38]

wagnerrp:

~45 CLOSE_WAIT, and a handful of FIN_WAIT_2

[02:19:46]

Baylink:

Ah.

[02:20:02]

Baylink:

Ok. Time to build for source checkouts again, I guess.

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[02:20:04]

Beirdo:

weird

[02:20:39]

Beirdo:

you have any upnp clients on your network?

[02:20:50]

Beirdo:

even if you aren't using em?

[02:21:07]

wagnerrp:

windows media player, but it hasnt been open in months

[02:21:21]

wagnerrp:

unless windows 7 is doing its own scans in the background

[02:21:32]

Beirdo:

that would suck :)

[02:21:55]

Beirdo:

just trying to think of what could possibly be keeping those workers busy

[02:22:15]

Beirdo:

they should clear out on their own too

[02:23:09]

sphery:

So, for posterity, if anyone tries OpenGL video renderer and notices sparkly OSD and captions, change your OSD renderer to opengl2. OpenGL video renderer + softblend OSD renderer is unusable. OpenGL video renderer + opengl2 OSD renderer is beautiful.

[02:23:31]

Beirdo:

sparkly?

[02:23:37]

[R]:

why did mike send 8 messages all within a like 10 minute period?

[02:23:51]

sphery:

and, wagnerrp, perhaps your laptop had problems with OpenGL because you had opengl2 osd renderer enabled (which requires OpenGL 2)

[02:24:07]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no, the UI wouldnt start

[02:24:08]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: maybe run the backend with -v upnp it might show things?

[02:24:17]

wagnerrp:

rather, it would, but wasnt rendered properly

[02:24:34]

sphery:

sparkly = gets transparent areas within the letters causing video pixels to show through and "sparkle"

[02:24:44]

Beirdo:

they should die in 60s of non-use, BTW

[02:24:44]

sphery:

i.e. colorkey collisions

[02:25:02]

Beirdo:

ahh

[02:25:08]

wagnerrp:

for instance, arclight, the menu options on the left and clock on the top are visible

[02:25:12]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ah, I see... don't know, then

[02:25:12]

wagnerrp:

but the background is blank white

[02:25:31]

sphery:

we may be using some opengl2 stuff for the opengl painter, too

[02:25:31]

wagnerrp:

and i get 'failed to create opengl texture' spammed to the console

[02:25:36]

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[02:25:45]

sphery:

that may just be lack of video memory, though

[02:25:46]

wagnerrp:

... it may be my severe lack of video memory (16MB)

[02:25:52]

wagnerrp:

:)

[02:25:53]

sphery:

yeah, that's likely it

[02:26:17]

wagnerrp:

i have to drop to 16-bit color, as the drivers dont support both opengl and 24-bit at the same time

[02:26:19]

sphery:

I guess on a 364MB system-RAM computer, you're not likely to have much video RAM, either

[02:26:33]

sphery:

er, 384

[02:26:55]

sphery:

so, any way you can cause your system to only have 256MB RAM and try again?

[02:27:08]

sphery:

i.e. maybe set 128MB video ram assuming shared memory for video

[02:27:15]

wagnerrp:

no, dedicated memory

[02:27:26]

sphery:

just to see if 256MB causes swapping and that's the difference between you and the ATV

[02:27:28]

wagnerrp:

but i can remove the 128MB stick

[02:27:39]

sphery:

it's up to you

[02:27:42]

sphery:

probably not worth it

[02:27:45]

sphery:

but I was just wondering

[02:28:03]

wagnerrp:

well like i said, it was only consuming ~220MB of it

[02:28:07]

wagnerrp:

with the rest disk cache

[02:28:20]

sphery:

that's pretty close to 256MB, though

[02:28:26]

wagnerrp:

perhaps if i had a bunch of artwork loaded, it would be higher

[02:28:42]

sphery:

also you said you were using 16bpp color?

[02:28:56]

sphery:

if so, that makes the images in RAM 1/3 smaller, right?

[02:29:09]

wagnerrp:

maybe, would have to ask gbee that one

[02:29:21]

sphery:

at least the X copies of the images

[02:29:57]

wagnerrp:

wow, this thing had BGA memory

[02:30:02]

wagnerrp:

i thought that was a fairly new packaging

[02:30:06]

clever:

thats something i was wondering about, is it posible to push all (pre-scalled) images to X itself, and then just demand that X draw image foo at x,y

[02:30:16]

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[02:30:26]

clever:

it sounds like the most efficient way to draw the themes, if you dont have GL in the mix

[02:30:41]

Beirdo:

oh, you mean like ... Xv?

[02:30:49]

wagnerrp:

clever: we actually are wanting to mandate opengl be in the mix

[02:31:24]

sphery:

I'm guessing Qt's UI classes actually knows when/how to use X

[02:31:29]

sphery:

but then again I haven't checked

[02:31:30]

tgm4883:

was the python binding issue that mythbuntu users were having in regards to mythvideo/jamu showing up like this "Now processing video file (Sin City (2005))(0)(0)"

[02:31:40]

clever:

Beirdo: i was thinking more like the images in shm or pre-sent to X (over the unix socket) and then just telling the server to draw an image somewhere, without having to copy the images within the myth process

[02:31:43]

sphery:

so I'd assume the Qt painter would do things appropriately

[02:31:45]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: in case ya missed it.. :) -v upnp on the MBE may be useful to track it down

[02:32:04]

Beirdo:

clever: that's the basis of X, yes. and it's slow.

[02:32:06]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: yeah, saw that

[02:32:09]

clever:

yeah, i havent dug into QT enough to see how it does things

[02:32:22]

wagnerrp:

ill take a look in a second

[02:32:24]

tgm4883:

thats a line from jamu.log

[02:32:25]

Beirdo:

K, so many things going on at once, it's hard to tell :)

[02:32:38]

sphery:

clever: yeah, I find that blind faith saves me a lot of time (at least until we get to a bug in Qt)

[02:38:14]

clever:

i should look at how QT does the image handling and compare it to some GL stuff on all my hardware

[02:38:59]

Beirdo:

why?

[02:39:13]

clever:

just to see which gives the best performance and what machine can handle it the best

[02:39:15]

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[02:39:20]

clever:

most of them are on ati

[02:39:31]

Beirdo:

again.... why?

[02:39:41]

Beirdo:

buy real cards, and run VDPAU :)

[02:40:06]

clever:

both my old and new frontends are laptops

[02:40:27]

clever:

and VDPAU does nothing for the GUI/menu's

[02:40:40]

clever:

enless you can decode the png images on the GPU....

[02:40:42]

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[02:41:23]

Beirdo:

but the VDPAU-capable cards are also OpenGL-capable, and work well

[02:41:24]

clever:

now that i think about it, storing each theme image as a GL texture (in GPU ram) feels like it would give the best performance

[02:42:01]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, that extra 128MB of memory makes all the difference

[02:42:32]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, yeah, 220MB is close enough to 256MB I figured you'd kick over to swap a lot

[02:42:40]

clever:

upgraded my backend from 256mb to 512mb memory and it does perform a good deal better

[02:42:46]

wagnerrp:

im already 50MB into swap

[02:42:54]

sphery:

so, now you can join the club and tell people ATV is terrible for mythtv

[02:43:11]

wagnerrp:

if only it had double the memory...

[02:43:11]

sphery:

clever: imagine a combined frontend/backend system

[02:43:23]

sphery:

and one where people attempted to do things like play 720p HDTV

[02:43:33]

wagnerrp:

sphery: well you know what this means?

[02:43:43]

sphery:

even as just a frontend system, the themes, etc, would make it unusable

[02:43:46]

sphery:

wagnerrp: what's that?

[02:43:54]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend is simply too bloated

[02:43:56]

wagnerrp:

we need to slim it down

[02:43:57]

sphery:

heh

[02:44:03]

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[02:44:06]

clever:

sphery: the themes taking up too much mem?

[02:44:09]

sphery:

maybe we could make it modular so people only add the parts they want

[02:44:33]

sphery:

clever: only too much for an underspec'ed system

[02:44:50]

clever:

sphery: let me look at the numbers and see how it looks

[02:45:18]

wagnerrp:

that other P3 i had previously used was only running at like 600x390 (after nixing overscan)

[02:45:27]

wagnerrp:

so thats probably why it could run on 256MB of memory

[02:45:58]

wagnerrp:

that and the fact that the video card had twice the memory of the system... just so wrong

[02:46:24]

Beirdo:

heh

[02:46:53]

clever:

wagnerrp: sounds like the perfect setup for my idea, if you can store the images ONLY in gpu memory

[02:46:57]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, that's just over half the pixels of 1280x720, so lots less memory

[02:47:22]

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[02:47:35]

sphery:

clever: X (at least X's implementation of OpenGL) stores the images in system RAM /and/ GPU (i.e. 2 copies)

[02:47:51]

sphery:

So, any OpenGL video renderer users here?

[02:47:51]

wagnerrp:

now i was running gnome, so i could cut down on memory some

[02:48:19]

clever:

sphery: ah, so that could put a dent in performance

[02:48:30]

wagnerrp:

so conclusion...

[02:48:40]

clever:

assuming the GPU has enough ram, it would be ok to let X's copy swap out and just eat swap space in silence

[02:48:43]

wagnerrp:

AppleTV (new or old) with only 256MB of memory cant do mythtv

[02:48:53]

sphery:

wagnerrp: agreed

[02:48:54]

wagnerrp:

and the old Xbox with 64MB is completely out of the question

[02:49:14]

clever:

my 256mb laptop was pretty laggy at most myth stuff

[02:49:23]

sphery:

the old xbox only had 64MB...

[02:49:43]

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[02:49:52]

sphery:

wow, amazing--I remember when the XBox classic was equivalent to a high-end PC

[02:50:02]

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[02:50:08]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no, it was never equivalent to a high end PC

[02:50:17]

wagnerrp:

it had the graphics card of a high end PC

[02:50:31]

wagnerrp:

but even when it came out, it was a pretty mediocre PC

[02:51:15]

sphery:

OK, high-end-for-the-price?

[02:51:28]

clever:

sphery: ok, i wrote a script to convert every image in terra to .bmp, that should be about the same as an de-compressed image, maybe the same as a GL texture

[02:51:30]

sphery:

i.e. higher than what I was buying at the time

[02:51:32]

wagnerrp:

my laptop is 6 months older than the original xbox, has an extra 266MHz, and 6x the memory

[02:51:46]

clever:

60mb for the entire set (7mb as png)

[02:52:08]

sphery:

clever: yeah, it adds up fast

[02:52:16]

clever:

so with only 60mb of video card memory, you could hold every image in terra (didnt count the default fallback images) and GL the thing together

[02:52:40]

sphery:

clever: we'll believe it when you show us the patch :)

[02:53:06]

clever:

but from what you say, X will hold a 2nd copy, so there goes another 60mb of system ram

[02:53:09]

clever:

and i have no idea what QT is doing, so you might loose more

[02:53:43]

clever:

its not in the gig range, so it sounds posible

[02:54:03]

sphery:

So, on my system with an Athlon II X2 250 and a GeForce 7200 GS (G72) PCIe card, I can't do 1.25x playback of 1080i with Onefield (HW) deint

[02:54:17]

sphery:

goes to 117% CPU and makes it a slideshow

[02:54:20]

clever:

GL is made to scale things (at odd shapes&stuff) for textures, so it wont have any trouble with flat scallingthe images in a theme

[02:54:23]

wagnerrp:

that doesnt seem right...

[02:54:53]

sphery:

wagnerrp: mine doesn't?

[02:54:58]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[02:55:20]

sphery:

what video card do you have?

[02:55:42]

wagnerrp:

oh, youre saying you cant handle that with the opengl painter?

[02:55:50]

wagnerrp:

yeah, dont know about that

[02:56:02]

sphery:

wait, painter?

[02:56:05]

wagnerrp:

but you should have far more than enough CPU to decode and deint at that speed

[02:56:08]

wagnerrp:

renderer

[02:56:16]

wagnerrp:

opengl or xv?

[02:56:28]

sphery:

yeah, decode and deint in software with Xv works fine up to 2x

[02:56:37]

sphery:

(which is the top of timestretch)

[02:57:24]

sphery:

it's the OpenGL video rendering with OpenGL2 OSD with captions enabled and 1.25x timestretch and OneField (HW) (which is one of the low-resource deints) that's killing me

[02:57:42]

clever:

anything obvious in here as to why it failed, and if not what -v flags should i add? http://pastebin.com/yjcHFUji

[02:57:44]

sphery:

I think once we drop Xv and focus on OpenGL, we'll improve efficiency significantly

[02:58:03]

sphery:

(and I"m more than happy to buy a new $30 video card that's actually modern in the meantime)

[02:58:17]

sphery:

but was just playing around with it today

[02:59:18]

sphery:

clever: only issue I see is that you seem to have 32kHz audio selected in the transcode profile, and you should use 48kHz

[02:59:36]

sphery:

but that's not likely to be the real problem

[02:59:47]

clever:

sphery: i'll change that, any clue what -v flags i should add to get more usefull info?

[03:00:16]

sphery:

I will say, though, that lossless transcode fails on shows from most of my channels, anymore

[03:00:20]

sphery:

even though it used to work

[03:00:37]

clever:

i'm transcoding to mpeg4 to halve the disk space

[03:00:38]

sphery:

changes to the encoding done by the broadcaster make it no longer work

[03:00:49]

wagnerrp:

just buy more disk space

[03:00:52]

sphery:

we need Geoffrey to come back and fix up mythtranscode, again

[03:00:59]

sphery:

and, yeah, more disk space is a better plan

[03:01:02]

wagnerrp:

if you really want to transcode, dont use mythtranscode

[03:01:06]

sphery:

and that

[03:01:15]

wagnerrp:

use something with support for worthwhile codecs and containers

[03:01:24]

sphery:

if you want to save disk space, go to H.264, which means a different transcoder

[03:01:31]

sphery:

Handbrake is pretty easy to use

[03:01:43]

sphery:

no cutting, though (at least I haven't figured out a way to do so)

[03:01:46]

clever:

now that i have a FE capable of 264, i might look into that

[03:01:46]

wagnerrp:

does nuvexport do h264?

[03:01:56]

sphery:

I think it does, now

[03:02:01]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: ^^^

[03:02:03]

sphery:

Beirdo added some new profiles

[03:02:19]

wagnerrp:

apparently google is now using drones for aerial photography

[03:02:21]

clever:

sphery: can handbrake be setup as a user-job and properly update the DB to the new filename?

[03:02:28]

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[03:02:40]

sphery:

so, what's the least-resource-intensive deinterlacer I can use with OpenGL?

[03:02:49]

wagnerrp:

shoudl be one-field

[03:02:50]

sphery:

clever: not really, would require some scripting with the bindings

[03:03:06]

sphery:

clever: though you could just stick them in MythVideo, instead

[03:03:09]

sphery:

easier and cleaner

[03:03:10]

clever:

sphery: yeah, i was wondering if there was a pre-made one on wikipedia or something

[03:03:23]

sphery:

also, depending on container, you may be better off without a seektable

[03:03:32]

sphery:

i.e. don't do a seektable for H.264 in MKV

[03:03:42]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Transcode_wrapper_stub

[03:03:57]

sphery:

wagnerrp: d'oh... didn't leave myself any down...

[03:04:03]

sphery:

I'll try bob for kicks

[03:04:15]

wagnerrp:

i should update that for trunk

[03:04:20]

wagnerrp:

going to be slightly different

[03:04:24]

sphery:

2010-10–14 22:38:40.096 Couldn't load deinterlace filter openglonefield

[03:04:34]

sphery:

though, maybe I wasn't using openglonefield

[03:04:44]

wagnerrp:

clever: thats a wrapper that will do in-place transcoding

[03:04:55]

sphery:

and I've solved this issue once before... just don't remember how

[03:05:09]

clever:

wagnerrp: renames the output to the original name so the DB can be left alone?

[03:05:34]

wagnerrp:

yes, deletes the old file, moves the new one in in its place, and fixes the file size

[03:05:41]

wagnerrp:

optionally deletes commskip and seektable

[03:05:57]

clever:

looks like it might work

[03:06:06]

clever:

i'll have to run some trials on it when i have time

[03:06:14]

wagnerrp:

takes jobid or --chanid and --starttime

[03:11:21]

clever:

my HDTV is also doing some odd things

[03:11:29]

clever:

the brightness goes up&down alot every now and then

[03:12:15]

clever:

it just did it again on the 'no signal' error page, so i'm no longer thinging its a problem in the automatic gain on composite

[03:13:08]

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[03:18:17]

clever:

ok, got more info on my mythtranscode error, Segmentation fault

[03:18:58]

clever:

now i have an idea on how to procede:)

[03:30:48]

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[03:32:20]

sphery:

OK, pretty sure the reason I can't do the (HW) deinterlacers is because my GPU can't handle shader programs the size of our deinterlacing programs

[03:32:53]

clever:

sphery: http://pastebin.com/zVt0hCWZ

[03:33:00]

wagnerrp:

sphery: thats how those work?

[03:33:09]

sphery:

the HW ones do

[03:33:19]

wagnerrp:

wondered what that meant by hardware accelerated

[03:33:43]

sphery:

see VideoOutputOpenGL::SetupDeinterlace()

[03:34:22]

sphery:

creates the name and calls OpenGLVideo::AddDeinterlacer(), which calls OpenGLVideo::AddFragmentProgram()

[03:34:42]

sphery:

which calls OpenGLContext::CreateFragmentProgram()

[03:35:07]

clever:

#2 0xb7b0379b in NuppelVideoPlayer::AddAudioData (this=0x8093f88, buffer=0x0, len=4608, timecode=3285) at NuppelVideoPlayer.cpp:4007

[03:35:13]

clever:

hmmm, looks like a null pointer

[03:35:18]

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[03:35:52]

sphery:

hmmm... but I'm not seeing "Fragment program exceeds hardware capabilities." even at -v playback

[03:36:09]

jya:

clever: do you know which version of myth was used?

[03:37:10]

clever:

jya: yep, 24115 trunk

[03:37:13]

sphery:

but I am seeing: 2010-10–14 23:12:47.927 Couldn't load deinterlace filter openglonefield\n 2010-10–14 23:12:47.927 Using deinterlace method

[03:37:28]

jya:

clever: ho... that's old...

[03:37:33]

sphery:

(where there's just a space after the word method, meaning and nothing else)

[03:37:46]

clever:

jya: yeah, i cant update due to the new alsa depencies, ive been meaning to get around to fixing it

[03:37:59]

jya:

clever: update to something not so ancient...

[03:38:06]

jya:

what new alsa dependency ?

[03:38:28]

clever:

jya: a few months back, myth began using some new alsa version, and now it just compile errors against my alsa headers

[03:38:50]

jya:

there hasn't been a change to alsa dependency I'm aware of since 0.22 ...

[03:39:00]

jya:

can you provide me with a copy of the compilation error ?

[03:39:06]

clever:

jya: give me a moment

[03:39:08]

sphery:

clever: wanna paste compile error... heh, too slow

[03:39:15]

jya:

1.0.16 is I believe the required version.

[03:40:04]

jya:

clever: especially latest trunk version, does even less fancy use than before.. so it should be even more compatible now

[03:40:06]

clever:

ii alsa-base 1.0.16–0ubuntu4 ALSA driver configuration files

[03:40:09]

clever:

should fit perfectly then

[03:40:50]

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[03:40:51]

clever:

i remember somebody patched configure a few weeks later, to check alsa and throw a fit

[03:41:05]

sphery:

that happened a long time ago

[03:41:15]

jya:

clever: because troubleshooting a null pointer issue for a code that was entirely rewritten makes little sense. I remember that bug.. In the worse case, you can

[03:41:21]

clever:

seems even my qmake is too old now, 4.4 doesnt make it happy

[03:41:37]

sphery:

we require Qt 4.5+

[03:41:44]

jya:

I made a patch to alsa to check, and Janne redid it

[03:42:23]

clever:

i need to overhaul my master backend now, the frontend has qt 4.6 and alsa media-libs/alsa-lib-1.0.21a

[03:42:25]

sphery:

the ALSA version check for 1.0.16 went in Feb 27

[03:42:36]

sphery:

[23623]

[03:42:37]

jya:

the fix for the error you have was rather simple, you could also check in the trac commit. It was in reference to a crash when using Nuv analog capture

[03:42:50]

jya:

so it is 1.0.16

[03:43:06]

clever:

not sure why i was having alsa errors then, since i have 1.0.16 now

[03:43:06]

jya:

I don't think I made any new use of ALSA API that wouldn't work with 1.0.16

[03:43:40]

clever:

i'll just keep quiet about my errors then till i overhaul the backend and update to a new trunk

[03:43:40]

jya:

clever: with trunk, the configure isn't always in sync with the actual use of some of the code

[03:43:41]

sphery:

yeah, if you find that 1.0.16 isn't working, please let us know so we can track down what new function is in use and what version it's in and update the configure test

[03:43:51]

jya:

+1

[03:44:09]

jya:

either I can find a way to do it with 1.0.16 ; or we update the requirements

[03:44:17]

clever:

let me try version [23623], i'm guessing it doesnt demand qt 4.5

[03:44:20]

sphery:

and the compile log/errors would be useful in finding what we need

[03:44:27]

jya:

provided that we now need Qt 4.5 and PHP 5.3.. I think it's safe to also bump the alsa requirements

[03:44:49]

jya:

no point working with an ALSA of 4 years ago, when we need other recent tools

[03:45:22]

sphery:

Qt 4.5 was officially required as of [25249] due to code introduced in [25232]

[03:45:23]

clever:

last time i gave the alsa problem i was just told to update

[03:45:39]

clever:

but now that i look closer and see what your saying, i have the correct alsa versions and shouldnt need to update

[03:45:52]

sphery:

(meaning those between won't compile with 4.4, but [25249] will actually tell you why :)

[03:46:22]

sphery:

clever: and you have alsa-lib version 1.0.16, too?

[03:46:22]

jya:

clever: because while the configure script was made to check 1.0.16, it's possible that I made a mistake and use more recent Alsa API.. To be honnest, I never check for those

[03:46:24]

clever:

only updating configure itself at the moment, to see if its happy with things

[03:46:46]

sphery:

clever: above you posted driver version info

[03:46:47]

clever:

sphery: dont see an alsa lib package in ubuntu, which package was it a part of?

[03:46:56]

jya:

alsa-dev

[03:47:03]

sphery:

thanks :)

[03:47:04]

jya:

do apt build-dep mythtv

[03:47:06]

sphery:

I don't know *buntu :)

[03:47:10]

clever:

jya: not installed

[03:47:32]

wagnerrp:

i just lost power...

[03:47:34]

jya:

build-dep mythtv will install all the dependencies you require to properly build mythtv

[03:47:42]

jya:

but I'm sure you have done that before

[03:47:46]

clever:

apt: invalid flag: build-dep

[03:47:59]

clever:

i clearly have them, it compiles fine on this old version

[03:48:05]

wagnerrp:

it turns out -48V POTS is not sufficient to power cordless phones

[03:48:30]

jya:

sprru apt-get build-dep mythtv

[03:48:46]

clever:

jya: your right hand was offset one key!

[03:48:50]

jya:

wagnerrp: yeah, you need a wire

[03:49:08]

wagnerrp:

alternator on the UPS kicks in, amp clicks off, laptop boops that it went on power, phone line... goes dead

[03:49:51]

clever:

i just moved one of my switches to the UPS, so now everything (except the laptop i type on) is good

[03:51:41]

clever:

i checkec 'apt-cache show mythtv' and it seems none of the packages even depend on alsa, odd

[03:51:51]

clever:

i'll just reproduce the alsa error

[03:52:18]

clever:

[23623] compiling

[03:52:54]

jya:

clever: I don't care about anything earlier than today to be honnest

[03:53:22]

jya:

I will fix whatever is required to make today's code compile with alsa 1.0.16 or change the requirement in convifugre

[03:53:26]

clever:

cant get todays version without making my master unable to run myth

[03:53:31]

jya:

but I'm not going to troubleshoot such old code

[03:53:46]

clever:

yeah, no point in keeping old versions fixed

[03:53:59]

jya:

you said you couldn't use earlier version of mythtv because of the breakage with alsa. I'm happy to work with you on those.

[03:54:16]

jya:

that particular point I'm happy to fix..

[03:54:18]

clever:

thats what i'm targeting with my current compile

[03:54:24]

jya:

Otherwise swtich to 0.23.1

[03:55:25]

clever:

should clear out a few days of recordings and gentoo-i-fy my master

[03:55:28]

clever:

should be fun

[03:57:15]

** wagnerrp remembers to restart the compile now that its past 9:25 **

[04:00:49]

sphery:

still, the compile error could be useful--if it doesn't compile with 1.0.16, then we can find out which function, and see if it's still used

[04:01:08]

clever:

yep, thats why i'm trying to reproduce the alsa error

[04:01:19]

clever:

wasnt expecting a qt 4.5 error to get in my way

[04:02:01]

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[04:02:43]

clever:

crap, it just started recording to a drive that i was filling, less then 100mb will be free

[04:03:26]

clever:

i move a file to balance it out, and it picks the wrong drive at just the wrong time!

[04:03:46]

sphery:

stop the move?

[04:04:06]

clever:

it already finished, 77mb free on one and 2.7gig on the other

[04:04:11]

clever:

moving a smaller file now to split things up

[04:04:21]

sphery:

heh

[04:04:36]

clever:

65mb

[04:04:53]

clever:

ah, fringe, i can delete that, no need to record it anymore

[04:05:17]

sphery:

what? Fringe is awesome

[04:05:30]

sphery:

as long as you're willing to suspend disbelief

[04:05:45]

clever:

ok, i'll admit it, i downloaded it from IRC 2 or 3 hours ago:P

[04:05:59]

sphery:

don't admit that or you'll be kicked

[04:06:27]

clever:

i'll try to avoid defending my fan-ism next time:P

[04:07:39]

sphery:

real fans don't steal their shows

[04:07:51]

clever:

sphery: does it really matter if i own an HDTV box and am paying for the HDTV channel that fringe airs on?

[04:08:06]

clever:

im paying for the show

[04:08:06]

clever:

i just dont have the hardware to capture it in hd

[04:08:19]

sphery:

you're not paying for the show

[04:08:26]

k-man:

is there a prefered container format for when ripping dvds?

[04:08:28]

sphery:

you're paying for a service

[04:08:32]

sphery:

which pipes TV to your home

[04:08:33]

Shadow__X:

you pay for the medium to be able to watch the show

[04:08:39]

sphery:

you have absolutely /no/ rights to the show

[04:08:45]

[R]:

k-man: how can we tell you what you perfer

[04:08:50]

clever:

sphery: and assuming i had an HD capture card, i could capture it in myth right now and have effectively the same file

[04:08:51]

Shadow__X:

ads that the medium brings to you help pay for the show

[04:09:16]

clever:

Shadow__X: automatic comercial skip in mythtv

[04:09:32]

wagnerrp:

it would be nothing like the same file

[04:09:36]

Shadow__X:

doesnt matter because with the nielson ratings arent they prorated to begin with

[04:10:06]

k-man:

[R]: i'm asking if there is a particular format that works best with mythtv

[04:10:07]

sphery:

clever: and as long as the law says that there's a difference between recording TV on a DVR (which allows skipping commercials) and creating an illegal copy by downloading from the Internet, /we/ will enforce the rule

[04:10:11]

clever:

wagnerrp: i'm assuming a proper QAM capture card would give me a file with much greater quality then what i DCC'd

[04:10:36]

[R]:

k-man: a container is a container

[04:10:39]

sphery:

clever: and if you keep trying to say it's OK, I'll figure out how to use my op and kick you, so let's stop here

[04:10:40]

Shadow__X:

just go get the proper tuner

[04:10:45]

[R]:

k-man: if ffmpeg support it... myth support it

[04:10:49]

clever:

i'll just stop

[04:10:53]

k-man:

[R]: ok, thanks

[04:11:04]

sphery:

clever: good, because I'd really like to see that compile error :)

[04:11:49]

clever:

wasnt there something similar about being able to download music if you own the record/cd though?

[04:11:55]

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[04:12:06]

sphery:

definitely not in the US

[04:12:10]

clever:

though thats a little different, since you own a full copy, not the rights to watch it once

[04:12:17]

sphery:

which is where many of us are

[04:12:26]

sphery:

actually, you still only own the media

[04:12:32]

sphery:

and a license to view whatever's on that media

[04:12:41]

sphery:

still no rights to the show

[04:13:53]

clever:

seems the HD channel on the cable box is several seconds behind the SD channel too

[04:14:36]

wagnerrp:

yes, it happens

[04:17:26]

Shadow__X:

increased latency due to icnreased overhead?

[04:18:06]

clever:

the SD channel is also a 'digital' channel on the cable box, so its hard to tell

[04:18:44]

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[04:22:54]

clever:

i should look into maybe getting an HD-PVR now that i have an HD capable-ish FE

[04:23:25]

clever:

are there sample files i can dl and try playing?

[04:24:45]

wagnerrp:

i believe the wiki lists a couple samples on torrents or elsewhere

[04:24:53]

wagnerrp:

short bits of video at 7, 10, and 13.5mbps

[04:25:31]

clever:

dont see them on http://mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HD_PVR

[04:26:28]

wagnerrp:

yeah, dont know where they are then

[04:28:38]

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[04:29:46]

clever:

wagnerrp: all i know right now is that this old sample (force.php\?file\=.%2Fbbc.hd.ts) is too much for the new hardware

[04:29:55]

clever:

not sure how that compares to HD-PVR samples

[04:30:14]

clever:

if i remember right, its a scene from bill kill

[04:30:17]

clever:

oops

[04:31:04]

wagnerrp:

single sliced, h264, ~19mbps

[04:31:10]

wagnerrp:

pretty nasty stuff

[04:31:25]

[R]:

THAT'S what she said

[04:31:53]

clever:

thats fairly far past 13mb/s

[04:32:12]

clever:

i'm guessing i should have no trouble with 1mb/s then

[04:32:29]

wagnerrp:

what is your processor?

[04:32:44]

clever:

Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.60GHz

[04:32:55]

[R]:

rofl

[04:33:15]

clever:

thats my 'new' frontend, it was Pentium III (Coppermine) 1ghz

[04:33:17]

wagnerrp:

oh yeah... youre going to peak out around maybe 7mbps

[04:33:52]

k-man:

on the wiki page for MTD, it says MTD is part of MythDVD, shouldn't that be mythvideo now?

[04:33:59]

wagnerrp:

no

[04:34:21]

k-man:

ok

[04:34:21]

Beirdo:

it's part of /dev/null now

[04:34:25]

clever:

wagnerrp: so my only problem would be can the masterBE capture over usb at that rate, though its a minor problem since i can just capture on the new FE

[04:34:31]

k-man:

mtd is defunct?

[04:34:37]

wagnerrp:

yes

[04:34:46]

[R]:

clever: it requires usb2... if you have usb2 it'll work

[04:34:55]

Beirdo:

kaput... ex-program.

[04:35:07]

clever:

[R]: i beleive the sata card includes 2.0 ports, but i'm not sure if the 400mhz P2 can handle it

[04:35:12]

[R]:

clever: assuming your usb host controller isn't a piece of crap

[04:35:14]

k-man:

wagnerrp: so... is there a "defunct" template or something on the wiki?

[04:35:19]

Beirdo:

oh look, my second TV auto-turned on again

[04:35:33]

[R]:

clever: oh yaaaa... 20 yera old hardware

[04:35:35]

[R]:

my favorite

[04:37:13]

clever:

if i add serial IR blasting and a HD-PVR, i should have no trouble using this new laptop to do everything

[04:37:33]

[R]:

the hdpvr comes with a balster...

[04:37:34]

Beirdo:

hahahah

[04:37:59]

clever:

i can change channels over firewire, but i'm planning to blast the tv/audio box

[04:38:56]

[R]:

well the hdpvr wont be able to do that

[04:39:11]

clever:

Peitolm: it cant blast the tv to life?

[04:39:27]

Beirdo:

a pinch of C4 could

[04:39:40]

Beirdo:

oh, that's to LIFE.

[04:39:40]

clever:

i mean IR blast the power on code

[04:39:44]

Beirdo:

never mind

[04:39:46]

k-man:

so no objection to me putting "{{Outdated}}" on the MTD page on the wiki?

[04:40:15]

Beirdo:

k-man: none from me :)

[04:40:44]

k-man:

bah! someone beet me to it

[04:40:45]

k-man:

wagnerrp:

[04:41:01]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:41:18]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[04:41:32]

k-man:

there i was, going to add my 12 characters to the wiki

[04:41:51]

k-man:

you beat me to putting outdated in the MTD page

[04:41:52]

wagnerrp:

i did nothing

[04:41:59]

wagnerrp:

must be some other wagnerrp

[04:42:02]

wagnerrp:

the one-armed one

[04:42:10]

wagnerrp:

he types pretty fast for only having one arm

[04:42:27]

Beirdo:

don't wanna know what the other arm's up to

[04:44:30]

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[04:44:46]

Beirdo:

OK, I'm sure I told it NOT to commflag that show

[04:44:52]

k-man:

i'm going to back out wagnerrp's changes and put my own {{Outdated}} in ;)

[04:45:54]

Beirdo:

seems I didn't

[04:48:40]

k-man:

why was dvd ripping removed from trunk?

[04:49:17]

wagnerrp:

there was significant modernization that needed to be done, specifically migration to storage groups

[04:49:21]

Beirdo:

broken, unmaintained code.

[04:49:31]

k-man:

oh, i see

[04:49:35]

k-man:

thanks

[04:49:37]

wagnerrp:

and when outstanding issues rose up that resulted in breakage, it was decided to just drop it

[04:49:58]

wagnerrp:

there is still interest in some sort of tool among several devs

[04:50:05]

wagnerrp:

so it may return, just not in 0.24

[04:50:17]

k-man:

sure

[04:50:18]

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[04:50:39]

k-man:

how should I approach ripping dvds currently then?

[04:51:06]

wagnerrp:

ISOs can be made with 'dd'

[04:51:10]

clever:

k-man: i used cpdvd last, it de-crypts and makes a directory thats prettymuch the same as the VIDEO_TS one

[04:51:21]

wagnerrp:

or you could use handbreak, or any number of other tools, to rip it

[04:51:42]

clever:

cpdvd doesnt re-compress, just decrypt and copy

[04:51:44]

wagnerrp:

i believe the VIDEO_TS stuff is now supported over storage groups

[04:51:52]

k-man:

clever: so if you dump that directory somewhere where mythvideo can find it, you can watch it as a dvd?

[04:52:03]

wagnerrp:

ISOs certainly are (when unencrypted)

[04:52:06]

clever:

k-man: i think so

[04:52:11]

wagnerrp:

k-man: yes, have been for some time

[04:52:37]

clever:

cpdvd will by default copy the largest title, but you can run it several times to copy each title

[04:53:11]

wagnerrp:

does it copy a usable structure? or just the vobs?

[04:53:13]

k-man:

hehe, latest revision of cpdvd was 2004

[04:53:21]

k-man:

it must be damn good!

[04:53:24]

clever:

wagnerrp: everything needed to play the title

[04:53:30]

wagnerrp:

if the latter, just concatenate them together and use it as a single file

[04:53:36]

sphery:

plus, there are many better programs out there that are actually designed for ripping dvds

[04:53:42]

clever:

wagnerrp: it might even get the menu, its enough to make mplayer pretty happy

[04:53:45]

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[04:53:53]

k-man:

does it copy the subtitles and can they be used by mythvideo?

[04:54:06]

clever:

i think the subs are within the VOB file

[04:54:08]

wagnerrp:

k-man: if it copies the dvd structure, yes

[04:54:13]

Beirdo:

YAY

[04:54:15]

wagnerrp:

no, the subs are in a separate file

[04:54:17]

clever:

ah

[04:54:22]

Beirdo:

another blocker bites the dust!

[04:54:27]

clever:

i think i still have a cpdvd rip nearby, let me find it

[04:55:37]

clever:

dont see it

[04:55:50]

k-man:

Beirdo: which one?

[04:56:19]

Beirdo:

the one that just got closed :)

[04:56:24]

wagnerrp:

ah, yes... subtitles are in the vob

[04:56:35]

wagnerrp:

but you can extract them to a .sub and .idx

[04:56:35]

Beirdo:

#8706

[04:56:45]

wagnerrp:

which you can subsequently mux into an mkv and use

[04:56:49]

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[04:56:51]

wagnerrp:

(in mythvideo)

[04:57:05]

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[04:57:52]

k-man:

the problem with cpdvd is it does not do the whole dvd which could be annoying

[04:58:13]

k-man:

because i'm ripping dvds of a tv show

[04:58:27]

clever:

k-man: i usualy keep re-running it with title arguments, to copy each title one by one

[04:58:44]

k-man:

clever: yeah, i was hoping for a more set and forget solution

[04:58:45]

clever:

i just start at 1 and go up until it errors

[04:59:08]

clever:

if you look closely, you should figure out what title numbers the episodes are on (4 per disk id guess)

[04:59:14]

clever:

and just make a bash script to get those 4 titles

[04:59:25]

k-man:

Deadwood is 3/disk

[04:59:32]

k-man:

yeah, i suppose i could

[05:00:06]

clever:

i'm guessing the episodes are first, with the special features afterwards

[05:00:18]

k-man:

yeah,i think so

[05:00:29]

clever:

without re-compressing, it would go faster and you can always do it later

[05:01:41]

k-man:

any idea what this might have refered to in the wiki? User:Gregturn/FAQ

[05:02:09]

sphery:

k-man: have you tried handbrake? I've heard good things about it, but I've only run test transcodes on recordings with it--never used it to rip a DVD

[05:02:40]

k-man:

sphery: been using it on my mbp, but having trouble getting the subs to appear once i move the mkv to the mythbox

[05:02:47]

k-man:

i was playing the files with mplayer

[05:03:12]

k-man:

sphery: its good, but annoying for tv shows because you can't just rip the lot, you have to set up a job for each episode

[05:03:13]

sphery:

yeah, I'm not sure how to deal with that

[05:03:35]

sphery:

well, you can use the queue to set up a bunch of jobs, then tell it go

[05:03:50]

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[05:03:53]

sphery:

but, yeah, not "do this for all 5 episodes"

[05:04:26]

k-man:

sphery: yeah

[05:04:41]

clever:

just remembered, i put a dvd in the FE, i can test cpdvd right now

[05:05:07]

** clever prays to gentoo that cpdvd ebuild exists **

[05:05:25]

clever:

emerging

[05:05:50]

clever:

now whats this error i had while trying to test the alsa bug

[05:10:08]

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[05:23:17]

clever:

k-man: once ffmpeg is done compiling, i'll get back to you on what exactly cpdvd gives

[05:23:43]

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[05:24:23]

k-man:

clever: cool, thanks

[05:34:35]

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[05:35:09]

k-man:

for anyone interested, there seems to be quite a few suggestions of dvd rippers in the comments here: http://tuxarena.blogspot.com/2009/04/best-5-a . . . rip-and.html

[05:44:44]

sphery:

of those, I have a guess which one the k-man chose

[05:45:19]

k-man:

which one?

[05:45:25]

sphery:

K9Copy, of course

[05:45:35]

sphery:

k

[05:45:36]

k-man:

hehe

[05:46:18]

k-man:

actually, i liked none of them – i found a tool called dvdbackup which seems pretty interesting

[05:46:22]

k-man:

it does no re-encoding though

[05:46:56]

[R]:

i hate crap that loses quality

[05:59:23]

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[06:02:19]

Beirdo:

why are there still ads that say "if you're tied down by dial-up"...

[06:02:26]

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[06:02:37]

Beirdo:

just how many dial-up users are left?

[06:02:45]

wagnerrp:

millions

[06:03:25]

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[06:03:30]

Beirdo:

hmm, I guess

[06:05:39]

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[06:11:46]

clever:

k-man: ok, starting a rip, cpdvd -d /dev/sr0 -m /mnt/cdrom/ .

[06:11:48]

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[06:14:26]

clever:

k-man: so far, i have these files VIDEO_TS.BUP VIDEO_TS.IFO VIDEO_TS.VOB VTS_01_0.BUP VTS_01_0.IFO VTS_01_0.VOB

[06:19:17]

k-man:

clever: check out dvdbackup too

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[06:46:33]

justinh:

people may say they hate crap that loses quality, then they go use something like xvid or mpeg4. they're all lossy :D

[06:47:38]

justinh:

I've been quite impressed by Handbrake's output recently. turned a TV series DVD into files you can hardly tell are transcoded

[06:47:50]

k_ross:

they also hate losing their quality hard drive space :)

[06:48:26]

[R]:

i always rip my dvds 100% into iso

[06:48:31]

justinh:

I'd rather give up 500MB more room & not see mpeg artifacts on large areas

[06:48:51]

justinh:

an otherwise crisp rip can be totally ruined by that

[06:49:11]

justinh:

[R]: I do except when the dvd has an awful menu structure

[06:49:21]

justinh:

if it's a series, that's a no-go really

[06:49:43]

[R]:

ripping the title 100% is also an option

[06:49:57]

justinh:

just a movie – re-author it to a single file is the way I go

[06:50:11]

justinh:

do away with the subs & audio tracks I don't want too

[06:52:07]

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[06:53:10]

justinh:

k-man: anyway I find handbrake just fine for series DVDs – so what if you have to set up a job. in terms of length of time it takes it's worth the effort – and you make sure it's right first time

[06:53:30]

justinh:

not yet found an automagical tool got it right first time every time

[06:54:01]

[R]:

what the hell good is a 5ft serial cable

[06:54:02]

[R]:

FFS

[06:54:23]

justinh:

what I really like is that you can just set it up & send it on its way safe in the knowledge at the end of it you'll have separate files you can actually use :)

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[07:46:20]

at0m:

hm suddenly mythrename.pl only does a couple of the last shows, and not all recordings... http://pastebin.com/Kx5BYvCV

[07:46:58]

at0m:

anyone have an idea on how i can find out what's going wrong there?

[07:47:50]

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[07:49:53]

at0m:

another error, but critical, is transcode filling up mythbackend.log untill the disk was full. but i can live without transcode for a while eh

[07:50:29]

[R]:

sounds like you need to get some logrotate action going

[07:52:13]

at0m:

[R]: what's the use if mythbackend.log grows to 3GB over 3–4hrs

[07:52:36]

at0m:

[R]: i think something else is wrong there eh

[07:53:10]

at0m:

i can live without transcode, but wife can't live without pretty names =]

[07:54:05]

[R]:

so you set logrotate to go every hour

[07:54:23]

[R]:

why do you need mythrename?

[07:56:21]

at0m:

[R]: to browse recordings on machines without mythfrontend?

[07:56:33]

[R]:

upnp and/or mythfs.py

[07:56:44]

[R]:

both much better than hacky perl scripts

[07:57:04]

Beirdo:

huh?

[07:57:12]

Beirdo:

how is upnp better?

[07:57:19]

at0m:

i'm just puzzled as to why mythrename.pl just gave up

[07:57:37]

[R]:

Beirdo: cuz its not a hacky perl script...

[07:57:39]

at0m:

[R]: i have a couple subfolders renamed, sorted by different params: data, title,...

[07:57:50]

[R]:

upnp does all that

[07:58:03]

Beirdo:

I see... so it's just your personal hatred for perl

[07:58:11]

[R]:

hacky

[07:58:13]

[R]:

you forgot hacky

[07:58:19]

at0m:

it worked a peach till last week or so

[07:58:20]

Beirdo:

upnp is designed to work with upnp clients

[07:58:30]

Beirdo:

not for random use

[07:58:41]

[R]:

random use?

[07:59:32]

at0m:

Beirdo: right, simple shared directories and renaming are a tad more generic

[08:00:21]

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[08:00:41]

justinh:

mythrename.pl has been replaced by mythlink.pl anyway

[08:00:56]

at0m:

and re: logrotate: no logs should grow GB's per hour

[08:01:10]

at0m:

justinh: hm, checking mythlink.pl

[08:01:11]

justinh:

the authoritative 'share recordings dir as symlinks' script

[08:01:29]

justinh:

sphery took mythrename.pl & ripped its hackish guts out :-)

[08:01:37]

at0m:

:)

[08:02:21]

at0m:

locate mythlink.pl

[08:02:26]

at0m:

/usr/share/doc/mythtv-backend/contrib/user_jobs/mythlink.pl.gz

[08:04:15]

at0m:

yea they look similar... setting up mythlink.pl instead of mythrename as you suggest

[08:09:29]

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[08:10:08]

at0m:

justinh: same error from mythlink as from mythrename: http://pastebin.com/8xtZsSeF

[08:10:22]

at0m:

although it does a couple more files

[08:12:56]

at0m:

ew, seems there's some filesystem problems, too... will sort these first

[08:13:18]

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[08:14:33]

justinh:

same error?

[08:14:36]

justinh:

what error?

[08:16:51]

at0m:

the partition wasn't mounted properly, so the recordings that linked were on the parent partition of the mount dir

[08:17:15]

at0m:

that explains a lot :>

[08:34:52]

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[08:48:36]

** Peitolm thinks it would be nice to specify separate transcode/job/schedule etc. log files **

[08:49:59]

mzb is now known as zz_mzb

[08:50:32]

** justinh thinks it would be nice to be able to turn thoughts into mythtv features **

[08:50:57]

** Peitolm thinks it would be nice to agree with Justinh **

[08:51:26]

Peitolm:

sadly, for me to actually contribute anything to mythtv, would require learning C++

[08:51:56]

Peitolm:

my programming stops at Perl/Python, and if you're really pushing it, ada

[08:54:38]

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[08:54:50]

justinh:

I can't do C++ either but it never stopped me :D

[08:55:03]

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** knightr is away: Beam me up Scotty! **

[08:55:31]

** knightr is back (gone 00:00:03) **

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[08:55:46]

justinh:

I can't draw either. again.. never stopped me

[08:55:51]

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[08:58:00]

** Peitolm wonders if he'll get a backtrace the next time myth throws a bad std::alloc error at him **

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[09:42:58]

k-man:

justinh: yeah, i'll investigate running handbrake remotely on my mythbox

[09:43:50]

justinh:

that's how I do it, incidentally

[09:43:53]

k-man:

where does mythtv look for the dvd drive?

[09:44:01]

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[09:44:01]

k-man:

justinh: do you use vnc?

[09:44:06]

justinh:

the databsae, first of all ;-)

[09:44:13]

justinh:

no. freenx

[09:44:28]

k-man:

justinh: i thought the client for freenx costs money?

[09:44:35]

justinh:

heck no

[09:44:46]

justinh:

dunno about a linux client though

[09:44:58]

k-man:

where do i set in the FE where to look for the dvd drive?

[09:45:33]

justinh:

utils/setup > setup > media settings > DVD or something IIRC

[09:46:39]

justinh:

or maybe setup > general

[09:47:30]

justinh:

ruh? doesn't seem to be any device setup page

[09:49:30]

justinh:

there's a setting called DVDDeviceLocation but I dunno where the UI for it is

[09:49:43]

k-man:

justinh: yeah, i can't find it either

[09:52:04]

k-man:

well, on my system DVDDeviceLocation is set to "Default"

[09:52:25]

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[09:52:28]

justinh:

aha

[09:53:08]

justinh:

utils/setup > setup > media settings > videos settings > player settings

[09:53:20]

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[09:53:51]

k-man:

ah yeah, i just found it too

[09:53:52]

k-man:

thanks

[09:58:25]

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[10:01:25]

k-man:

when i try and play a dvd i get this error: Error reading block from DVD: Error reading NAV packet

[10:03:33]

k-man:

oh, i had to install libdvdcss

[10:05:13]

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[10:07:35]

k-man:

cool, i can watch dvds on my mythbox now finaly

[10:11:02]

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[10:11:17]

justinh:

OMG. I never want to receive emails from the woman who uses THIS as her signature again: http://imagebin.ca/img/Ky9WlkW.gif

[10:12:47]

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[10:13:56]

k-man:

oh my god!

[10:14:25]

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[10:17:16]

k-man:

justinh: oh, there is a cli version of handbrake too

[10:18:01]

justinh:

handbrake-gui is the gui for handbrake ;-)

[10:18:47]

k-man:

can you do a remote desktop login with freenx?

[10:19:22]

justinh:

a login?

[10:19:25]

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[10:19:31]

justinh:

it's all over ssh.. a whole desktop session over ssh

[10:24:35]

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[10:27:13]

justinh:

they're rebooting Hawaii Five-O ? :-O

[10:27:25]

k-man:

justinh: cool!

[10:27:32]

k-man:

let's hope they do it well

[10:27:43]

k-man:

something Radio Birdman would be proud of

[10:28:23]

justinh:

never really saw the original but hell.. they really have run out of ideas

[10:29:14]

k-man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKiZ9VSD6U

[10:29:30]

justinh:

er.. that should have said reboot-ED

[10:29:36]

justinh:

it's already on. jees

[10:29:42]

k-man:

really? cripes!

[10:30:29]

justinh:

"Hawaii Five-0 continues on Mondays at 10/9c on CBS."

[10:31:23]

k-man:

interesting – i'll have to find it on youtube

[10:31:26]

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[10:32:12]

justinh:

they could likely make a good job of remastering the old ones. .wasn't a lot of stuff shot on >=16mm back in the day?

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justinh:

oo 4GB DDR3 £44.99 exc vat today

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[14:20:32]

FredYerkes:

Will the recent FCC changes to cablecard rules finally allow us to use a cablecard with MythTV maybe?

[14:22:18]

justinh:

possibly, but only if the broadcaster allows it by the setting of 'copy once' or 'copy freely' flags in the streams

[14:22:32]

justinh:

where 'us' == YOU in the USA .. not here in the UK :)

[14:23:20]

justinh:

so maybe you'd get everything you feel you're entitled to.. or maybe not. the final reality is unknown and will be variable

[14:25:28]

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[14:27:06]

justinh:

see what you're not gonna get – which would definitely entitle you to use everything you pay for – through a cablecard – is a trusted data path for the stream from cable to TV – in any non closed-source software the stream could end up on any path and that just won't do

[14:27:45]

justinh:

yay for DRM, treating paying customers like criminals!

[14:31:23]

FredYerkes:

yup, it's a travesty of justice

[14:31:51]

justinh:

that's capitalism

[14:33:53]

FredYerkes:

more like cronyism and lobbyists running amuck

[14:35:29]

justinh:

I thought that was the same diff. heheh

[14:38:01]

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[14:38:24]

marc_us_:

justinh: What you describe is why I can't risk spending money on what is otherwise a great idea/product and I'm locked into cable boxes

[14:38:26]

** FredYerkes wishes he lived in Germany **

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[14:59:15]

Baylink:

"Hawaii Five-0 airs on Monday Nights?"

[14:59:37]

wagnerrp:

yes?

[15:00:01]

Baylink:

It's a riff; some reviewer used "Prison Break airs on Monday nights?" as a hook in a DVR piece a couple years ago.

[15:00:02]

wagnerrp:

FredYerkes: the recent cablecard rules change exactly nothing

[15:00:18]

Baylink:

We mean "the cablecard rule changes announced last night", here, right?

[15:01:13]

wagnerrp:

FredYerkes: and for what its worth, the conditional access system used in other parts of the world (CI) is being phased out in favor of a full DRM scheme like cablecard (CI+)

[15:01:39]

wagnerrp:

MythTV can do conditional access, it cannot do DRM

[15:04:26]

wagnerrp:

Baylink: yeah, to be honest, the rule changes just seem like theyre trying to force cable companies to do what the rules say theyre already supposed to do

[15:08:28]

marc_us_:

howdy wagnerrp

[15:09:49]

** wagnerrp evangalizes some more against DRM **

[15:12:03]

marc_us_:

DRM = Devil Requests Money

[15:12:25]

marc_us_:

Nah... Devil Requires Microsoft

[15:12:53]

wagnerrp:

pretty sure microsoft had nothing to do with dvd or bluray

[15:14:19]

marc_us_:

Perhaps, but we almost need those OS's to legally use blueray disks

[15:14:33]

marc_us_:

And then there is that Netflix issue

[15:15:28]

wagnerrp:

well yeah, we need windows, but thats just because licensed BR players have only been written for windows

[15:15:38]

wagnerrp:

netflix/silverlight is available on OSX

[15:15:53]

wagnerrp:

and hulu is entirely adobe's fault

[15:15:55]

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[15:16:19]

marc_us_:

I was reading up on release 24. I noticed that there is some code to fix some garbled lines at the bottom of a HDPVR recording.

[15:16:43]

marc_us_:

Is that the last scan line where I get a green row of pixels?

[15:17:23]

iamlindoro:

No

[15:17:32]

iamlindoro:

the green row of pixels is something the device puts in, not myth

[15:17:33]

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[15:17:51]

wagnerrp:

is that some 1080/1088 line issue?

[15:17:57]

marc_us_:

Ah, then what garbled lines are they talking about. I don't notice anything beyond that last green row.

[15:17:59]

iamlindoro:

yes

[15:18:25]

marc_us_:

OH... what you are saying is that it records 1088 lines instead of 1080?

[15:18:52]

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[15:18:53]

marc_us_:

So, that line may be from my source?

[15:19:20]

iamlindoro:

No, the line is not from the source, and recording 1088 is actually correct

[15:19:22]

wagnerrp:

the broadcast is 1088 lines, the output from your box is 1080 lines, and the hdpvr records 1088 lines agin

[15:19:43]

marc_us_:

It's no real biggie, on one set overscan takes care of it and on my LCD I increase the image by 1% to shoot that line off the screen

[15:19:43]

wagnerrp:

its a limitation of the codec, the size must be divisible by 16

[15:19:55]

marc_us_:

Oh.

[15:20:02]

iamlindoro:

That said, you shouldn't see the green line you describe when .24 comes out

[15:20:13]

iamlindoro:

because we will at least prevent the extra pixels being displayed

[15:20:26]

iamlindoro:

But the device will still be putting them in

[15:20:33]

marc_us_:

Well that would be great. I won't have to use the 1% enlarge option.

[15:20:38]

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[15:20:55]

roger_padactor:

do you have to have your computer hooked up to coax for this to work?

[15:21:01]

marc_us_:

It really only affects me because it shows up in the thumbnails.

[15:21:39]

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[15:21:41]

marc_us_:

and it's a nit not a reall issue for me

[15:21:48]

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[15:21:49]

wagnerrp:

guess hes not going to ask in here after all

[15:22:55]

wagnerrp:

no, hes still on the server, just no longer in here

[15:24:42]

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[15:35:29]

Beirdo:

actually, to be fair... the green line is something that ffmpeg decoding puts in, AFAIK.

[15:35:31]

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[15:36:05]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the hdpvr /should/ be adding empty padding lines

[15:36:05]

Beirdo:

the video is 1080 pixels high, but in a format that requires 1088, and the decoder is supposed to know to mask off the bottom 8 pixels

[15:36:11]

iamlindoro:

I have lots of 1088 line H.264 samples, only the HD-PVR stuff presents it

[15:36:43]

Beirdo:

yeah, I think the encoder in the HD-PVR isn't masking it to black, and others do

[15:36:50]

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[15:36:56]

Beirdo:

but the decoder is supposed to be removing it

[15:37:31]

Beirdo:

why they couldn't choose 1088 in the first place, I dunno

[15:37:42]

Beirdo:

I guess they wanted a precise 16:9

[15:38:12]

marc-us-tx:

Beirdo: Thanks for the info. It's good to know why

[15:38:54]

Beirdo:

either way, the encoder only needs to fill in the top 1080 by spec, and it seems most encoders fill with black (which makes sense)

[15:39:08]

Beirdo:

but not the one we are commonly using, which makes a mess

[15:39:25]

marc-us-tx:

It's not a really bad mess though

[15:39:46]

marc-us-tx:

Very livable with size controls on the playback menu

[15:39:56]

Beirdo:

and the ffmpeg decoders hand us 1920x1088. so for preview gen, we crop off the bottom 8 before resizing

[15:40:13]

Beirdo:

on playback, I think there may be similar code recently, but not 100% sure

[15:40:29]

Beirdo:

the previews, I got tired of seeing green underlines :)

[15:40:44]

marc-us-tx:

Ah.

[15:41:39]

Beirdo:

tonight I get the fun of debugging my analog captures...

[15:41:40]

marc-us-tx:

Beirdo: BTW: I still am using two HDPVRs with nary a problem. Very pleased.

[15:41:40]

Beirdo:

yay

[15:42:16]

Beirdo:

mine has been pretty stable once I covered the IR receive window (as I used to use IR transmit from it)

[15:42:27]

marc-us-tx:

Live tv is still only 98% with the occasional mess up but only the wife uses Live TV

[15:42:35]

Beirdo:

now that I'm not doing IR at all with it, it's pretty much solid

[15:42:36]

marc-us-tx:

Oh.

[15:42:41]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: oh look, now there are mythicalPythonBindings

[15:42:52]

Beirdo:

heheheheh

[15:42:55]

Beirdo:

seriously?

[15:43:17]

wagnerrp:

yeah, hes got some python script which dumps data to unformatted text

[15:43:22]

wagnerrp:

so its simple to import in bash

[15:43:24]

iamlindoro:

oh ffs

[15:43:25]

Beirdo:

someone needs a mythicalBeating

[15:43:40]

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[15:43:50]

marc-us-tx:

I use a seperate IR box for controling the two cable boxes. I had mysterious mistunning with Firewire. You would think the opposite and the IR channel changes be frought with mistunes.

[15:44:12]

Beirdo:

my IR transmit was about 95% accurate

[15:44:24]

marc-us-tx:

I'm getting over 99% with ir

[15:44:32]

Beirdo:

now I use serial control for my DirecTV receivers, and it's 100%

[15:44:41]

wagnerrp:

i was helping him along with using them, under the hope that he would see the folly of trying to process such data in bash

[15:44:43]

wagnerrp:

but alas

[15:44:47]

marc-us-tx:

Heck, the cable boxes mess up on their own far more often

[15:44:53]

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[15:44:56]

Beirdo:

the only time it fails is when the receiver says "I can't tune to that channel, idiot!"

[15:45:14]

** wagnerrp wonders if roger_padactor is ever going to come back **

[15:45:17]

Beirdo:

as I tune, then check what channel it is on

[15:45:36]

marc-us-tx:

What channel it "thinks" it's on?

[15:45:40]

Beirdo:

no

[15:45:45]

Beirdo:

what channel it IS on

[15:45:53]

marc-us-tx:

With fire wire?

[15:45:59]

Beirdo:

USB-serial

[15:46:14]

Beirdo:

the DirecTV receivers have a serial control protocol

[15:46:17]

marc-us-tx:

Oh... the DirectTV box

[15:46:30]

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[15:46:30]

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[15:46:43]

Beirdo:

doubt they really ever expected end users to use it, but it works great

[15:46:45]

marc-us-tx:

It's been years my friend. I have been Dish / Cable co for way too long

[15:47:08]

marc-us-tx:

I last used DirectTV and the serial port back when the ReplayTV's first came out.

[15:47:19]

Beirdo:

the current ones still have it

[15:47:29]

Beirdo:

over USB now

[15:47:35]

marc-us-tx:

Now that is interesting.

[15:48:14]

marc-us-tx:

I've been toying with HD and DirectTV but I don't want another two year contract which would only save me a few bucks over what I'm spending now with the non-contract cableco

[15:48:52]

marc-us-tx:

I understand they are getting more HD channels all the time.

[15:49:29]

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[15:49:33]

Beirdo:

yeah, quite a few of em

[15:49:38]

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[15:49:38]

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[15:49:43]

marc-us-tx:

Beirdo: How many HD analog tuners do you have?

[15:49:52]

marc-us-tx:

Excuse me... Encoders

[15:49:53]

wagnerrp:

none

[15:49:57]

wagnerrp:

:)

[15:50:36]

marc-us-tx:

I keep calling the HDPVRs tuners...

[15:50:46]

marc-us-tx:

my bad

[15:50:55]

sphery:

Makes me think... Maybe one of these days, I should actually remove the satellite dish from the side of my house.

[15:51:16]

marc-us-tx:

It's beutiful.

[15:51:18]

sphery:

only because I dropped satellite for OTA and have no plans to return.

[15:51:22]

sphery:

heh

[15:51:23]

marc-us-tx:

Don't take it down

[15:51:31]

sphery:

more than anything, it's there because it's there

[15:51:43]

Beirdo:

HDPVR is HD analog encoder

[15:51:44]

wagnerrp:

sphery: nah... it's got other uses... http://xkcd.com/316/

[15:51:45]

Beirdo:

so one

[15:52:17]

sphery:

heh

[15:52:26]

Beirdo:

and I have 4 channels of OTA ATSC (each with multirec) and 2 channels of analog SD

[15:53:38]

marc-us-tx:

Beirdo: Oh, I'm full aware it's and encoder... I just was thinking "TUNER" because when I run the backend setup....

[15:53:55]

Beirdo:

hehe

[15:53:56]

marc-us-tx:

So it sticks in my head that way

[15:54:27]

wagnerrp:

pretty sure the setup uses the terms capture card and encoder

[15:54:34]

marc-us-tx:

Now what directory is my channel change script?

[15:54:37]

marc-us-tx:

;)

[15:55:28]

marc-us-tx:

I like this four channel ir box. I can send discrete commands and not worry about having two boxes on the same ir sender

[15:55:59]

marc-us-tx:

I just run a seperate emitter to each of the two cable boxes

[15:56:58]

marc-us-tx:

Well, I've got to run. Thanks for the "green line" info.

[15:57:11]

Beirdo:

enjoy :)

[15:57:13]

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[15:57:24]

Beirdo:

OK, time to head to work

[15:58:17]

sphery:

we giving out subway advice, now?

[15:58:38]

** sphery will have to brush up on his D.C. Metro layout knowledge **

[15:58:52]

sphery:

Maybe I'll do that will Fallout 3

[15:59:02]

wagnerrp:

been too long since youve play.... yeah

[15:59:09]

sphery:

heh

[16:00:36]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Love Fallout 3, soooo much

[16:00:45]

iamlindoro:

gota go out and get New Vegas next week

[16:01:20]

sphery:

yeah, I'm considering getting New Vegas, too

[16:01:25]

sphery:

I still have so much left of Fallout 3, though

[16:01:29]

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[16:02:02]

sphery:

and I haven't even put in any of hte DLCs (and I got all of them with the GOTY edition)

[16:02:34]

sphery:

(and, yeah, I'm pretty sure that means if I want to play the DLCs, I'll have to start over with a new game)

[16:02:35]

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[16:02:46]

wagnerrp:

not at all

[16:03:17]

wagnerrp:

broken steel starts up at the end of the main game (instead of dying, you wake up in the citadel)

[16:03:27]

wagnerrp:

and the rest of them are completely independent of the main story

[16:04:03]

wagnerrp:

you go to X location on the map, and it takes you to a new map for the duration of the DLC

[16:04:14]

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[16:04:44]

sphery:

looking for what I saw... something about GOTY save games not compatible with normal

[16:05:02]

sphery:

and I've never put disc 2 into my xbox, so I figured I'm using "normal" save games now

[16:05:04]

wagnerrp:

oh? may be something funky with the XBOX version of it

[16:06:31]

sphery:

heh, when I go straight to the horse's mouth, though, I see different: http://fallout.bethsoft.com/eng/info/faq.html

[16:06:46]

sphery:

"Will my existing Fallout 3 saves be compatible with Fallout 3 Game of the Year Edition." "Yes, existing Fallout 3 saves will work fine, though you can also choose to start a new character."

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[16:19:16]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you have the python bindings installed, right?

[16:20:31]

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[16:21:00]

wagnerrp:

anyway... would someone mind running 'head -n1 `which mythpython`'

[16:25:09]

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[16:25:21]

iamlindoro:

#!/usr/bin/python

[16:26:09]

wagnerrp:

so it does work for other people and not just me

[16:30:49]

sphery:

I do have them installed, but my dev box isn't running and I install MythTV stuff into /usr/local

[16:30:59]

sphery:

can boot the dev box if it would be useful

[16:31:01]

wagnerrp:

and 0.23?

[16:31:07]

wagnerrp:

does the same thing there too

[16:31:38]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i dont know what Tom Lichti is doing, but im guess it doesnt have anything to do with installing them

[16:31:46]

sphery:

#!/usr/bin/python

[16:31:52]

sphery:

on 0.23-fixes

[16:33:00]

sphery:

my mythtv is in /usr/local , but my python bindings are installed to /usr/lib/python2.6

[16:33:11]

sphery:

and my python is in /usr/bin

[16:34:22]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Now he doesn't want to give you any more info because your query doesn't directly solve his problem

[16:34:38]

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[16:36:33]

wagnerrp:

odds on 27000 before 0.24?

[16:39:23]

sphery:

So, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/456172#456172 is a pretty good testimony for applying Captain_Murdoch's patches at #8526

[16:39:41]

sphery:

er, Doug's patches, it seems

[16:39:53]

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[16:40:39]

sphery:

iamlindoro: you're using those patches, too, right? were you seeing issues before the patches?

[16:41:05]

iamlindoro:

Yes, and yes

[16:41:11]

iamlindoro:

and rock solid since I applied them a week or two ago

[16:41:14]

sphery:

and, speaking of Capt M, I hope all is well with him (since he's been gone for so long)

[16:41:16]

iamlindoro:

I think they should be applied

[16:41:20]

iamlindoro:

he's back on the 18th

[16:41:39]

sphery:

I'll re-mention in #mythtv (which is where I thought I was when I first mentioned it :)

[16:43:40]

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[16:49:12]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, I like your reply to Tom's "unrelated to my problem" post.

[16:49:27]

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[16:49:33]

sphery:

I wonder if his 4 copies of community is related to the "if the capture card doesn't work keep retrying for 10s" thing

[16:49:37]

ll2:

hi there

[16:49:56]

sphery:

i.e. it errors, we retry, errors, retry, eventually, the scheduler tells a different recorder to record, ...

[16:50:00]

ll2:

just to let you know that, contrary to some believes

[16:50:10]

ll2:

appletv works fine with 0.23

[16:50:25]

ll2:

at least with SDTV

[16:50:42]

sphery:

enjoy

[16:50:56]

sphery:

and when things get slow, please don't complain to us (or the list :)

[16:51:18]

ll2:

right

[16:51:41]

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[16:52:10]

sphery:

anyway, I'm glad you have it working well enough for you

[16:52:15]

sphery:

and I hope it continues that way

[16:53:39]

sphery:

new theory... it recorded 4 copies of Community because it's a really good show

[16:57:03]

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[17:02:43]

wagnerrp:

sphery: did he try to directly push a trunk patch onto 0.23?

[17:05:09]

wagnerrp:

2TB WD green down to $80

[17:05:16]

sphery:

wow

[17:05:20]

sphery:

don't know about patches

[17:05:42]

sphery:

seems he's running trunk, right?

[17:05:53]

wagnerrp:

its actually $100, but you get $21 off if you buy it with a $21 USB dock

[17:06:01]

wagnerrp:

no, hes running 0.23.1

[17:06:38]

wagnerrp:

no esata though

[17:07:37]

sphery:

we're still talking about Tom, right?

[17:07:59]

wagnerrp:

no, your #8526 comment above

[17:08:02]

sphery:

his first message has --version output with MythTV Branch : trunk

[17:08:09]

sphery:

oh, that comment

[17:08:43]

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[17:08:47]

sphery:

he said he moved to "0.24 trunk"

[17:08:57]

sphery:

move to trunk improved things

[17:09:06]

sphery:

the patch seems to have fixed things

[17:09:22]

wagnerrp:

no, hes running '0.24–24454'

[17:09:25]

wagnerrp:

thats ancient

[17:09:44]

sphery:

that's khanh, not James

[17:09:58]

wagnerrp:

KHHAANNNNHHHH!

[17:10:21]

sphery:

oh, in Sep that was James

[17:10:49]

sphery:

I guess khanh is running 24996

[17:10:53]

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[17:11:24]

sphery:

So, if nothing else, I think this delay in release has been wonderful for translations

[17:11:38]

sphery:

there have been a /lot/ of translation updates

[17:11:59]

wagnerrp:

im wondering if we should do something about all these channels.confs on the wiki

[17:12:54]

wagnerrp:

i mean thats certainly not a good way to do things, since that import isnt recommended

[17:13:03]

wagnerrp:

but im wondering if there should be some alternative

[17:13:25]

wagnerrp:

maybe some script that will let you dump one source, and then re-import it fully

[17:13:49]

wagnerrp:

with all the proper information needed to use in mythtv and pull guide data

[17:14:23]

sphery:

I agree that removing channels.confs would be good

[17:14:54]

sphery:

as far as reimplementing the scan code in scripts that allow dump/restore, I don't think that would be good

[17:15:00]

sphery:

if anything, fix the channel scanner to do that

[17:16:12]

wagnerrp:

im not saying re-implement it

[17:16:18]

sphery:

I have a 66% complete patch that restores a copy of the channel table from a backup to a temp table, then compares the current channel to it and allows moving over user-editable data

[17:16:41]

sphery:

but I haven't been working on it because I'm not sure I like the idea of doing that in the backup/restore scripts versus in the actual scanner code

[17:16:42]

wagnerrp:

im just saying something to allow people to post their scans on the wiki as they current do

[17:16:56]

wagnerrp:

but that would include all the necessary information

[17:17:03]

wagnerrp:

instead of the partial information of a channels.conf

[17:17:22]

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[17:17:25]

sphery:

yeah, I'm saying that if we allow them to pull in the data, it's basically a re-implementation since any changes to scanning need to be made, also, to the importing stuff

[17:17:41]

sphery:

at least, they're closely tied together

[17:20:16]

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[19:01:36]

achew22:

I just went to schedules direct and changed my lineup to include a channel that wasn't there before. I went into mythtv-setup and told it to fetch channels from listing source but the new channels aren't showing up. Do I need to do anything other than activate them on SD before they show? If I leave it will it add those channels automatically later?

[19:01:56]

sphery:

you can't use Fetch channels with digital sources

[19:02:08]

sphery:

what capture device is your video source hooked to?

[19:02:14]

achew22:

firewire to a cable box

[19:02:28]

wagnerrp:

sphery cant type faster than me when i only have one free hand

[19:02:29]

sphery:

firewire is digital, so it won't add channels with Fetch channels

[19:02:40]

sphery:

however, since SD has all the information necessary

[19:02:44]

sphery:

and firewire is non-scannable

[19:02:45]

wagnerrp:

the other is filled with burrito

[19:03:02]

wagnerrp:

delicious burrito

[19:03:05]

sphery:

you need to use mythfilldatabase at the command-line with the appropriate command-line switch

[19:03:08]

achew22:

wagnerrp: you just made me very hungry

[19:03:19]

wagnerrp:

s/cant/can/

[19:03:36]

achew22:

sphery: I used `mythfilldatabase --do-channel-updates` which the wiki said would destructively update the channels

[19:03:49]

sphery:

wrong argument...

[19:03:50]

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[19:04:03]

achew22:

Okay, let me look at the wiki page again

[19:04:20]

sphery:

Look for "Normally MythTV tries to avoid adding ATSC channels to NTSC channel lineups. This option restores the behaviour of adding every channel in the downloaded channel lineup to MythTV's lineup..."

[19:04:25]

sphery:

use mythfilldatabase --help

[19:04:48]

sphery:

^^^ how to fish.

[19:04:52]

sphery:

fish: what you want is --do-not-filter-new-channels

[19:04:54]

achew22:

sphery: --do-not-filter-new-channels

[19:04:57]

sphery:

yep

[19:05:06]

achew22:

can I ask why that is the proper option

[19:05:18]

achew22:

I don't have an NTSC channel lineup (I don't think)

[19:05:39]

sphery:

the wording isn't super precise in the help format

[19:05:55]

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[19:06:17]

sphery:

achew22: also, if you haven't started, yet, you may want to try using --dd-grab-all

[19:06:20]

achew22:

so basically that command turns off the "smarts" and just adds new channels

[19:06:26]

sphery:

yeah

[19:06:31]

sphery:

firewire is special and confusing

[19:06:47]

achew22:

I ran it with --do-not-filter-new-channels, should I run --dd-grab-all?

[19:06:50]

sphery:

because it's digital capture of channels that are "tuned" like analog channels

[19:07:07]

achew22:

does a HDPVR fall in that category too?

[19:07:18]

sphery:

achew22: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/449426#449426

[19:07:23]

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[19:07:30]

sphery:

HDPVR is analog capture, so mfdb shouldn't be confused about it

[19:07:52]

achew22:

sphery: I don't see a option "--dd-grab-all" in the help

[19:08:16]

sphery:

achew22: it's in mfdb

[19:08:26]

sphery:

if you update to a newer 0.23-fixes, you'll also see it in help

[19:08:39]

achew22:

is mfdb mythfill-database?

[19:08:45]

sphery:

mythfilldatabase

[19:08:46]

sphery:

yeah

[19:08:55]

** sphery is too lazy to type it **

[19:09:07]

achew22:

so that triggers a setting that says "Just take whatever SD throws at you?"

[19:09:08]

sphery:

I'm barely faster at typing than a burrito-holding wagnerrp

[19:09:48]

sphery:

achew22: it basically says, "Get all the data for all 14 days in a single pull from TMS/SD, and insert it." That means that you always have the most-up-to-date information for every day in your listings

[19:10:15]

sphery:

rather than getting the generic descriptions of shows that were available 14 days out, and having them updated only when they air the next day

[19:10:26]

sphery:

it's less strain on TMS's servers and has a big benefit for users

[19:10:27]

achew22:

for the next 14 days, it isn't a permanent change

[19:10:47]

sphery:

the only down side is that it may be too much stress for your master backend system

[19:10:49]

achew22:

so if I run that 1 time then it won't be switched into a mode where it does full pulls every time

[19:10:54]

sphery:

so you should test it once on the command line

[19:11:03]

sphery:

looking closely at the logs and the timing info

[19:11:09]

sphery:

to see if you want to enable it permanently

[19:11:19]

sphery:

and, no, it's not permanent

[19:11:35]

sphery:

you have to enable it as described in the changeset linked from the post I mentioned

[19:11:38]

achew22:

so to make it permanent I would change the grabber commands?

[19:11:53]

sphery:

specifically you'd change the mythfilldatabase arguments setting

[19:12:05]

achew22:

yeah, it is pegging my POS master backend

[19:12:08]

achew22:

I think I'll hold off

[19:12:20]

sphery:

definitely worth trying once

[19:12:26]

sphery:

make sure you let it complete this time, though'

[19:12:26]

achew22:

definitely

[19:12:29]

achew22:

well thank you so much

[19:12:34]

sphery:

as it' deletes all your data

[19:12:50]

sphery:

and try again when you go to 0.24, since there have been some efficiency improvements

[19:12:58]

sphery:

but more should follow for 0.25

[19:13:06]

achew22:

interestingly it hasn't changed my listings now that it finished

[19:13:19]

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[19:13:29]

sphery:

all it will do is change the not-previously-updated episode data

[19:13:46]

wagnerrp:

http://deadspin.com/5663269/

[19:13:49]

sphery:

i.e. it's just updating data on all 14 days instead of just tomorrow and +13

[19:14:06]

achew22:

okay, so when I ran --do-not-filter-new-channels it should have added the new channels?

[19:15:43]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, I'd love to remove "Fast forward/rewind reposition amount: When exiting sticky keys fast forward/rewind mode, reposition this many 1/100th seconds before resuming normal playback. This compensates for the reaction time between seeing where to resume playback and actually exiting seeking."

[19:16:53]

achew22:

sphery: is there a lag in changing your SD settings online and being able to pull the updates?

[19:17:01]

wagnerrp:

shouldnt be

[19:17:16]

sphery:

wagnerrp must have finished his burrito

[19:17:36]

wagnerrp:

:)

[19:18:18]

achew22:

sphery: is the best place to look to see if it has the new channels mythweb's listings page?

[19:18:26]

sphery:

should work

[19:18:33]

sphery:

or mythfrontend's Program Guide

[19:19:02]

achew22:

it isn't in there or in mythweb's channel settings page

[19:19:38]

sphery:

look at the output from the --do-not-filter-new-channels or run mfdb with --do-not-filter-new-channels and --do-channel-updates --only-update-channels

[19:20:13]

achew22:

it says it got 83 channels, is there a way to have it list those channels?

[19:26:40]

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[19:29:54]

sphery:

maybe with some verbose option

[19:29:56]

sphery:

I don't know

[19:30:05]

sphery:

how many is it supposed to get?

[19:30:20]

sphery:

how many are you seeing in MythWeb/mythfrontend

[19:32:14]

achew22:

sphery: I'm seeing a mix of all the ones from all the sources let me get into mysql so I can query

[19:33:09]

achew22:

there are 83 with sourceid 4

[19:33:19]

achew22:

none of them are the channel I just added

[19:33:51]

sphery:

Don't know, then

[19:34:01]

sphery:

maybe try the re-add lineups on schedules direct

[19:34:09]

sphery:

seems mfdb is doing what it can

[19:34:31]

sphery:

but sd/tms isn't giving info on that channel, now

[19:34:48]

achew22:

delete the lineup and then readd?

[19:35:00]

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[19:35:52]

sphery:

I think there's a button to readd it

[19:35:55]

sphery:

all automatic

[19:35:58]

achew22:

ooh!

[19:36:00]

achew22:

lets do that

[19:37:10]

achew22:

at the top of the SD page it says "Notice: 1. Lineups updated, please check to make sure they are correct 2: Due to temporary problems, please wait 10 minutes before making any other changes"

[19:37:13]

achew22:

I wonder if that is related

[19:37:27]

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[19:37:47]

sphery:

quite possibly

[19:37:58]

achew22:

I'm going to assume that it will be fixed at some point

[19:38:09]

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[19:38:49]

achew22:

will I have to come back and run --dd-grab-all again?

[19:38:49]

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[19:39:31]

achew22:

or will SD push those out to me next time there is an update?

[19:39:40]

achew22:

or rather, when it is fixed

[19:39:46]

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[19:40:27]

sphery:

--dd-grab-all is something you do instead of a normal run

[19:40:31]

sphery:

it has nothing to do with channel updates

[19:40:40]

sphery:

a normal run will fill in the new channel data

[19:40:48]

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[19:40:52]

sphery:

but you will have to do the --do-not-filter-new-channels again

[19:41:13]

mersault:

I'm looking to migrate to a new mythtv backend, but I'd like to retain my recordings. I've copied over my data (/var/lib/mythtv is a separate LVM volume, so it was easy), and followed the directions here: http://www.mythpvr.com/mythtv/tips/migrate-recordings.html , but I'm noticing that in mythweb I don't have any icons for my recordings.

[19:41:27]

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[19:41:51]

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[19:41:59]

sphery:

mersault: you should really use backup/restore

[19:42:06]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore

[19:42:11]

achew22:

mersault: can you play them?

[19:43:13]

sphery:

that web page needs to die

[19:43:21]

sphery:

seems everyone uses that

[19:43:23]

sphery:

it's out of date

[19:43:29]

sphery:

it loses data that you should keep

[19:44:02]

sphery:

it doesn't deal with things like database version upgrades

[19:44:13]

sphery:

and the need for an existing (same-versioned) database

[19:44:15]

sphery:

and...

[19:44:18]

sphery:

it needs to die

[19:44:44]

mersault:

+sphery, well google thinks it's useful. gotta make a page that google thinks is even more useful, heh

[19:44:45]

sphery:

and its link to the HOWTO is to the pre 0.22 version of the HOWTO

[19:44:53]

sphery:

i.e. it points to the wrong section, now

[19:45:14]

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[19:45:19]

mersault:

now, to be fair, I was attempting an upgrade from 0.22 to 0.23 at the same time, so I know it's going to be a bit hairy

[19:45:23]

sphery:

yeah, it's not your fault, but the page is still upsetting me

[19:45:30]

sphery:

it was, at one time, ok

[19:45:39]

sphery:

but it's so far out of date it's doing bad things

[19:45:42]

wagnerrp:

you mean dropping a database is not synonymous with backing it up>

[19:45:43]

mersault:

+sphery, how 'bout this. You help me fix this, I blog about it, and we see if we can get it higher in google?

[19:45:52]

sphery:

mersault: see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore

[19:45:59]

sphery:

mersault: specifically http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . ading_MythTV

[19:46:09]

sphery:

mersault: then, realize that http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . _of_a_backup

[19:46:19]

sphery:

"In general, do not do a partial restore--instead do a full restore."

[19:46:40]

sphery:

"Therefore, a partial restore is significantly more difficult and time-consuming than a full restore, leaves significantly more opportunities for problems, and provides no benefits to the user or the system."

[19:47:09]

mersault:

+sphery, awesome. I'll review that. thankfully, these machines are both VM's, so I can just fire the old one up to do a new mysqldump, and I have a mysqldump of my new DB from before I tried to import all the craziness

[19:47:23]

wagnerrp:

VMs? eew

[19:47:59]

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[19:48:02]

sphery:

mersault: if you're changing hostnames, though, you need to use http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . d_or_backend after you restore the backup, but *before* you start up any mythtv programs (mythbackend, mythfrontend, mythfilldatabase, ...)

[19:48:17]

sphery:

ideally, you'll keep the hostname and IP address the same as it was before

[19:48:22]

sphery:

just makes things easier

[19:48:44]

sphery:

if you change IP address, you'll need to use mythtv-setup to correct it (on any host whose IP changed)

[19:48:48]

mersault:

+wagnerrp, I gotta say the ability to swap between the old backend and the new on at the drop of a hat, combined with running the frontend off of a CF card, which means I can do the same thing there, means I can keep the WAF very high.

[19:48:50]

sphery:

do that after the name change

[19:49:03]

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[19:49:08]

wagnerrp:

mersault: a simple chroot will get you that

[19:49:12]

mersault:

+sphery, alright. I did change the hostname, but I can keep the IP the same.

[19:49:31]

wagnerrp:

or even just installing in two different PREFIXs

[19:49:56]

sphery:

mersault: in that case, backup the old DB, then http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . ing_database (on the new DB server), then http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . d_or_backend , then you're ready to go

[19:50:27]

sphery:

you may need to update capture card or input connections information, though, after. If so, see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[19:50:32]

mersault:

+sphery, even though I've gone from 0.22 to 0.23 (this might be answered in the docs, I haven't finished reading them yet)

[19:51:38]

sphery:

mersault: yeah, with a full restore (replacing any existing DB), you don't have to worry about version--it will be updated on first run

[19:51:39]

mersault:

+wagnerrp, I have other reasons for going with Xen VMs. I had to do a total server consolidation, and frankly, I've been *very* happy with the performance of Xen.

[19:51:51]

sphery:

so after you change the hostname, just run mythtv-setup to make sure it upgrades the DB properly

[19:51:54]

sphery:

then you're good

[19:53:03]

** wagnerrp has a hatred of virtual machines **

[19:53:08]

mersault:

Awesome. I'll finished reading the docs, but as I understand the basic idea will be 1) dump old DB on old box, 2) on new box, make sure mythtv processes are stopped, drop DB, import old DB 3) change hostname info in DB, 4) run mythtv-setup, 5) profit

[19:53:36]

achew22:

mersault: 5 is "???", 6 is profit

[19:54:34]

mersault:

achew22, no no... I'm pretty sure ??? was replaced by steps 2 3 and 4. This is one of those really rare instances.

[19:55:06]

achew22:

my mistake

[19:55:09]

sphery:

wagnerrp: +1

[19:55:36]

sphery:

mersault: right

[19:55:47]

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[19:56:05]

sphery:

mersault: with current mythconverg_restore.pl , you can do the drop and import in one command, as at: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . ing_database

[19:56:28]

sphery:

you can download the updated version for a single run (no need to replace the one installed by your package manager)

[19:56:35]

achew22:

sphery: to do that do you need to have your storage groups in the same place on the new box?

[19:56:53]

mersault:

+wagnerrp, what caused this hatred?

[19:56:55]

sphery:

you may need to update configuration for anything that you've changed

[19:57:25]

sphery:

if you do change SG directory locations, just go to mythtv-setup and change the definitions for the storage group directory list, all will work

[19:57:39]

wagnerrp:

mersault: its crude, its the giant sledge being used to hammer in a thumb tack

[19:58:00]

wagnerrp:

full system virtualization has its fairly limited uses

[19:58:07]

sphery:

i.e. Typical IT over-application of whiz-bang technology

[19:58:09]

mersault:

+sphery, really the goal was to only change the mythtv version (well, went from mythbuntu 9.10 to 10.10). I changed the hostname since I needed to increment the box number, but aside from that, everything else is the same.

[19:58:14]

wagnerrp:

but for most things it is used for, there is a much simpler solution

[19:58:32]

sphery:

mersault: perfect, that will make it nice and easy

[19:58:58]

sphery:

wagnerrp: Didn't you get the memo? Simple is /never/ the right solution in IT. Simple is for simpletons.

[19:59:44]

sphery:

After completing /any/ project, I sit back and think to myself, "Is there any way I could do this more obscurely or using a more-complex process."

[20:00:00]

mersault:

I agree it's overused in a lot of situations, but in my case I couldn't justify having 5 separate boxes, all running at < 10% capacity 95% of the time. I moved into a smaller apartment and there really was just not enough space.

[20:00:19]

wagnerrp:

mersault: so run all the applications on one system

[20:00:28]

sphery:

the question, though, is why do the apps need separate boxes

[20:00:29]

wagnerrp:

or split them up using chroot

[20:00:33]

sphery:

virtual or physical

[20:00:36]

achew22:

sphery: if you ever respond to that with a yes then you didn't do a good enough job

[20:00:44]

mersault:

Some were freebsd, some were linux, some were publicly facing other weren't....

[20:00:44]

wagnerrp:

or make a more secure split using vservers

[20:00:46]

sphery:

achew22: exactly

[20:01:11]

wagnerrp:

the /only/ reason to use full system virtualization is when you need to run multiple kernels

[20:01:18]

wagnerrp:

such as freebsd and linux

[20:01:24]

mersault:

exactly

[20:01:33]

mersault:

and for my linux machines, they are all paravirtualized

[20:01:38]

wagnerrp:

but in most cases, the simpler solution is to switch to a different software

[20:01:45]

wagnerrp:

or use the same software on the other operating system

[20:01:48]

achew22:

guys, guys, you're not thinking about plan9 here. Clearly virtualization is the only way to run plan9

[20:02:16]

mersault:

As soon as pf is ported to linux, I'll consider moving to an all-linux world.

[20:02:30]

mersault:

but you'll pry my pf.conf from my cold dead hands

[20:03:12]

wagnerrp:

IMHO, pf, or any such border firewall for that matter, should not be run on the same system as your application servers

[20:03:42]

wagnerrp:

ive got a little 500MHz Geode system in my basement running freebsd/pf for my firewall

[20:06:30]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: vservers is definitely not Scottish

[20:06:48]

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[20:06:53]

wagnerrp:

are you saying its crap?

[20:07:03]

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[20:07:10]

Beirdo:

yes

[20:07:18]

Beirdo:

very much so

[20:07:26]

wagnerrp:

never used em

[20:07:50]

Beirdo:

glorified chroot (which is also crap)

[20:08:04]

wagnerrp:

i know the mythtv server has been running them for years

[20:08:12]

Beirdo:

yeah... bleh

[20:08:23]

wagnerrp:

oh? i thought it was like jail

[20:08:40]

Beirdo:

performance-wise... it's maybe 1/2–2/3 the speed of xen

[20:09:05]

Beirdo:

security-wise, it's practically a chroot (which has nearly no security)

[20:09:17]

Beirdo:

what's the point?

[20:09:27]

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[20:09:33]

wagnerrp:

why? there is no virtualization, only isolation

[20:09:39]

wagnerrp:

there should be nearly no performance hit

[20:09:50]

Beirdo:

there is

[20:09:54]

dustybin:

i use kvm / qemu and my machines have been installed on raw lvm partitions

[20:09:56]

Beirdo:

I don't remember why :)

[20:10:21]

Beirdo:

virtualization has its purposes

[20:10:43]

Beirdo:

running mythtv would generally be not a good use

[20:10:47]

wagnerrp:

sure it does, just not a whole lot of them

[20:10:58]

wagnerrp:

test platforms and development one of the few proper uses

[20:11:18]

dustybin:

are vms easier to manage than real servers, for fast recovery etc

[20:11:23]

achew22:

failover

[20:11:26]

dustybin:

and backing u

[20:11:27]

dustybin:

p

[20:12:24]

wagnerrp:

virtualization has nothing to do with failover

[20:12:33]

Beirdo:

it can

[20:12:36]

achew22:

No, but it makes it much easier

[20:12:46]

wagnerrp:

any program can be set up with failover with or without virtualilzation

[20:12:53]

Beirdo:

yeah

[20:12:59]

Beirdo:

anyways

[20:13:03]

wagnerrp:

you have to get a pretty expensive solution to provide live full system duplication

[20:13:17]

Beirdo:

oh, like xen?

[20:13:25]

** Beirdo ducks and runs **

[20:13:29]

wagnerrp:

zen does live migration like that?

[20:13:46]

achew22:

the cs dept at my university has limited budget so we have the servers set in pairs each with virtualization. Each server runs something like 10 subservers in tandem and when one of them fails (a annoyingly frequent event) the other picks up the slack

[20:14:04]

Beirdo:

IIRC, you can make it migrate a runnind domU with 100ms or so downtime

[20:14:08]

Beirdo:

something like that

[20:14:30]

Beirdo:

but whatever, that's not home use

[20:14:33]

wagnerrp:

achew22: my point is... why do you need to put the subservers in VMs?

[20:14:46]

wagnerrp:

why cant they just run on the system

[20:14:56]

Beirdo:

1) so they don't depend on the same kernel

[20:15:08]

Beirdo:

2) so they don't depend on the same system libs

[20:15:09]

iamlindoro:

sphery, others: http://slickdeals.net/?pno=40411&lno=1&afsrc=1

[20:15:10]

Beirdo:

:)

[20:15:15]

iamlindoro:

Free Fable II download on Xbox 360

[20:15:19]

sphery:

slick

[20:15:28]

wagnerrp:

different libs can be handled by chroot and friends

[20:15:35]

sphery:

I think I have Fable I on XB360 that I got forfree

[20:15:38]

iamlindoro:

sphery: har har

[20:15:41]

Beirdo:

I had mysql 3.23, 4.0, 4.1, 5.0, 5.1 all running on the same physical box for testing beirdobot

[20:15:59]

Beirdo:

it was joyous.

[20:16:01]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:16:02]

achew22:

wagnerrp: we have 1 computer for the computer security class, some run tomcat server, windows, lots of different configs

[20:16:15]

wagnerrp:

no reason you couldnt do that on the same system on different ports

[20:16:20]

Beirdo:

yes there is

[20:16:24]

wagnerrp:

or set up multiple IP aliases on the same card

[20:16:53]

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[20:16:54]

Beirdo:

you try running 3.23 (may it RIP) on the same machine as the others.

[20:17:21]

Beirdo:

you need a separate box, virtual or otherwise, or the libs all start to get pissy with each other

[20:17:29]

wagnerrp:

so chroot them

[20:17:38]

Beirdo:

i.e. mysql 4.0 could start up with 4.1 libs

[20:17:44]

Beirdo:

chroot. bleh

[20:17:45]

Beirdo:

:)

[20:18:08]

Beirdo:

if you're gonna chroot, it's not THAT much different from a VM other than kernels

[20:18:32]

Beirdo:

the work to set it up is nearly the same

[20:18:33]

sphery:

awww... Oracle is keeping the OpenOffice.org name, so the vendor neutral one will be LibreOffice

[20:18:38]

sphery:

terrible name

[20:18:51]

sphery:

if it doesn't roll off the tongue, people won't use the name

[20:18:59]

Beirdo:

of course, now that xen is toast... all a moot point

[20:18:59]

[R]:

that's what she said

[20:19:00]

[R]:

haha

[20:19:08]

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[20:19:36]

[R]:

that

[20:19:45]

wagnerrp:

'cept youre not providing virtual hardware, or requiring special hardware for call translation

[20:19:47]

[R]:

s weird... i lost audio for a few minutes at the end of a recording and at the beginning of the next

[20:20:01]

[R]:

i think my hdpvr needs some more lovin'

[20:20:18]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: networking is easier to get right in VMs, I've found :)

[20:20:25]

Beirdo:

your mileage may vary

[20:20:44]

Beirdo:

that said, I don't use VMs much anymore

[20:21:00]

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[20:21:21]

wagnerrp:

on your Atom?

[20:21:23]

wagnerrp:

:P

[20:21:31]

Beirdo:

actually... yes :)

[20:21:34]

Beirdo:

very sparingly

[20:21:42]

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[20:23:45]

Beirdo:

anywho... time to package up a pile of perl modules from hell

[20:24:49]

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[20:25:09]

[R]:

at work we have this box that uses openvz

[20:25:13]

[R]:

its an interesting thing

[20:37:57]

[R]:

my stupid laptop can't handle cable hd mpeg2

[20:37:58]

[R]:

:(

[20:41:48]

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[20:41:53]

wagnerrp:

slow laptop

[20:41:58]

wagnerrp:

could be worse

[20:42:01]

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[20:42:15]

[R]:

lol

[20:42:19]

wagnerrp:

my laptop's graphics card simply refuses to handle video that large in Xv

[20:42:30]

[R]:

oh com one

[20:42:33]

[R]:

come on*

[20:42:34]

[R]:

that's what she said

[20:42:36]

wagnerrp:

it just displays a blue screen and jerky audio

[20:42:57]

wagnerrp:

720p displays jerky video and audio

[20:43:01]

wagnerrp:

1080i fails outright

[20:43:56]

[R]:

oh its friday... blah. forgot

[20:44:44]

[R]:

isn't there some kind of mpeg2 acceleration in intel chipsets?

[20:44:53]

wagnerrp:

xvmc, yes

[20:45:11]

wagnerrp:

the GMA ones anyway

[20:45:37]

[R]:

mplayer threw a bunch of errors

[20:45:39]

[R]:

but it tried

[20:45:52]

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[20:46:28]

wagnerrp:

what processor/video?

[20:47:41]

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[20:47:46]

[R]:

GM45

[20:47:52]

[R]:

celeron 2.16

[20:48:10]

wagnerrp:

P4 or Core1/2 based?

[20:48:14]

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[20:48:31]

[R]:

family 6, model 15, stepping 13

[20:48:43]

[R]:

its got 64bit

[20:48:56]

wagnerrp:

64-bit at that speed, its probably core2

[20:49:06]

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[20:49:07]

wagnerrp:

that chip, and that card... should do fine with just Xv

[20:49:16]

[R]:

maybe its cuz its streaming

[20:49:18]

[R]:

lemme up the buffer

[20:49:36]

wagnerrp:

buffer?

[20:49:37]

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[20:49:48]

[R]:

hrm, it actually is better with that

[20:49:51]

[R]:

im using mplayer

[20:50:20]

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[20:51:03]

[R]:

yeah, actually it seems fine now

[20:51:07]

[R]:

stupid \wifi

[20:52:57]

[R]:

"Were you spanked as a child and it ruined your life?"

[20:53:02]

[R]:

HAHA, The Maury Show

[20:58:19]

[R]:

NOW i've seen it all

[20:58:23]

[R]:

TBS is putting ads in the sidebars

[20:58:30]

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[21:05:48]

[R]:

wagnerrp: i'm watching QAM with mplayer and i have small black borders around the video. is that beacuse of the broadcaster assuming theres gonna be overscan?

[21:06:12]

[R]:

(it's 4:3 video)

[21:06:26]

wagnerrp:

480i?

[21:06:30]

[R]:

yeah

[21:06:36]

wagnerrp:

likely because its the same exact feed that they used to use for analog

[21:06:40]

wagnerrp:

with all the same overscan

[21:06:55]

[R]:

they do it on purpose or what?

[21:06:58]

mersault:

+sphery, thanks for you help. everything is looking much better now. I will test out on the frontend when I get home tonight, but I'm optimistic.

[21:07:04]

wagnerrp:

original digital content usually has no overscan, but the tvs still do so anyway

[21:07:06]

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[21:10:41]

sphery:

mersault: cool, glad it's working

[21:10:55]

sphery:

(or looks like it will--I'm sure it will)

[21:15:15]

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[21:15:44]

mersault:

+sphery, one question, what changed about the script between 0.23-fixes and the current one?

[21:17:12]

mersault:

hmm.... mythbuntu 10.10, at least if it up to date, includes the latest verion.

[21:18:16]

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[21:21:42]

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[21:23:37]

sphery:

yeah, 10.10 has the new script

[21:24:29]

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[21:32:40]

len_:

Does anyone know how to the screen from blanking about every 10 minutes or so when using hulu integrated into mythtv. I have all screensavers turned off. It only blanks during hulu sessions, and I don't know what is doing the blanking.

[21:33:12]

len_:

*STOP it from blanking in Hulu

[21:33:29]

[R]:

what do you mean hulu integrated into mythtv?

[21:33:51]

wagnerrp:

are you talking about mythnetvision? or did you hack in a menu entry for hulu desktop?

[21:34:08]

len_:

Hulu desktop program added as a menu item myth for myth to launch

[21:34:20]

len_:

Added a menu item

[21:34:36]

wagnerrp:

alter the command you call to disable DPMS when you run it, and re-enable it when you exit

[21:34:45]

wagnerrp:

as apparently hulu desktop isnt intelligent enough to do it itself

[21:34:45]

len_:

It works great. I just don't know where the screensaver is kicking in from

[21:34:56]

wagnerrp:

man xset

[21:34:58]

tgm4883:

len_, might not be a screensaver

[21:35:28]

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[21:36:20]

len_:

What do I do to eliminate it. In the .huludesktop file?

[21:36:30]

wagnerrp:

eliminate what?

[21:36:46]

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[21:36:47]

len_:

the blanking during hulu

[21:36:53]

wagnerrp:

with xset

[21:36:56]

tgm4883:

len_, what distro are you using?

[21:37:02]

wagnerrp:

disable dpms when you run it, enable it again when you close it down

[21:37:02]

len_:

mythbuntu

[21:37:11]

tgm4883:

course you are

[21:37:16]

wagnerrp:

:)

[21:37:24]

** tgm4883 glares at wagnerrp **

[21:37:46]

tgm4883:

len_, it's likely dpms that is blanking the screen

[21:37:54]

tgm4883:

do you have "energy" savings settings on?

[21:37:59]

sphery:

hulu relies on xdg-screensaver

[21:38:10]

** iamlindoro wonders why we're troubleshooting closed source software **

[21:38:12]

sphery:

xdg-screensaver is broken due to GNOME and KDE not caring about it

[21:38:28]

tgm4883:

iamlindoro, because we are tired of troubleshooting open sourced software?

[21:38:32]

sphery:

len_: the right fix is to use MythNetvision :)

[21:38:43]

iamlindoro:

tgm4883, yeah, guess we're all done with OSS, all fixed ;)

[21:38:44]

wagnerrp:

sphery: of course that fix requires running trunk

[21:38:51]

[R]:

sphery: how is that? should i be getting all excited for 0.24?

[21:38:57]

sphery:

ah, yeah, that could be

[21:39:11]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/MythNetvision#Current_ . . . ion_Grabbers

[21:39:29]

kormoc:

Sweet. I never got around to understanding OSS and now it's all done! Whee!

[21:39:30]

sphery:

I hate Hulu, anyway

[21:39:53]

sphery:

so so I don't use it in MNV or their stupid closed-source desktop product

[21:39:54]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, well if you had just written that python mythweb...

[21:39:59]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: MNV knows, see how all those grabbers are written in python?

[21:40:17]

len_:

Problem is that myth always requires same version on servers and frontends, so upgrade one you need to upgrade all. It's a real pain. Wish server would be backward comatible with older clients.

[21:40:37]

** tgm4883 ducks **

[21:40:39]

wagnerrp:

len_: why is that a problem?

[21:41:22]

wagnerrp:

you probably upgrade mythtv all of what, once or twice a year?

[21:41:23]

[R]:

i don't support you can get south park with mythnetvision?

[21:41:24]

len_:

Well almost every other client server software I've used there is at least some amount of backward compatiblility.

[21:41:33]

sphery:

len_: if you really want to make it work, apply patches at https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26085#c6 and https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29859 and https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29860 to xdg-screensaver

[21:41:37]

[R]:

i don't suppose*

[21:41:43]

iamlindoro:

[R], If someone wrote a grabber for the south park site, sure

[21:41:55]

kormoc:

len_, sure, cause we should spend 50% of our time working on old versions rather then features

[21:41:59]

[R]:

iamlindoro: i have never been able to figure out how to get the video w/o using their stupid player

[21:42:07]

kormoc:

%s/features/features and bug fixes/

[21:42:08]

wagnerrp:

[R]: not a problem

[21:42:10]

sphery:

kormoc: not to mention rather than all the bug fixes

[21:42:15]

[R]:

wagnerrp: i thought it used rss...

[21:42:19]

kormoc:

:)

[21:42:20]

sphery:

heh, jinx

[21:42:35]

len_:

No, just compatible with serving up the files to the front end.

[21:42:45]

kormoc:

len_, it's not that simple

[21:43:02]

kormoc:

len_, we have cutlists/editor lists that go with the files, and we report back info while you're watching to the backend

[21:43:07]

sphery:

I finally figured out why I'm always slower than everyone else. I think wagnerrp and kormoc have faster Internet connections than me. I only have 750kbps up

[21:43:18]

kormoc:

len_, if you want just files to stream, use something like mythrename and serve it as nfs

[21:43:19]

wagnerrp:

no, thats about what i have

[21:43:23]

wagnerrp:

you just type slow... :P

[21:43:28]

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[21:43:32]

sphery:

len_: plus all the data

[21:43:33]

wagnerrp:

mythrename? whats that?

[21:43:34]

kormoc:

It's time to defrag that brain

[21:43:39]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, mythlink?

[21:43:42]

wagnerrp:

aye

[21:43:49]

kormoc:

used to be mythrename

[21:43:55]

kormoc:

I never remember which way it went

[21:43:58]

len_:

How stable is netvision now?

[21:44:04]

sphery:

kormoc: it's gone both ways

[21:44:08]

iamlindoro:

As stable as flash

[21:44:09]

kormoc:

kinky

[21:44:17]

sphery:

iamlindoro: classic... nice answer

[21:44:21]

iamlindoro:

;)

[21:44:26]

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[21:44:33]

len_:

Oh no :)

[21:44:46]

sphery:

len_: you would need to upgrade to current unstable/trunk/development to get Hulu support from MNV, though

[21:45:00]

sphery:

or wait a few weeks and upgrade to 0.24 when it's released

[21:45:32]

len_:

What about mythbuntu 10.10 .24 autobuilds?

[21:45:59]

iamlindoro:

What about them? They're not .24, they're trunk

[21:46:08]

sphery:

len_: yeah, that's unstable/trunk/development

[21:48:49]

tgm4883:

iamlindoro, actually, we just pull svn checkouts from the future :)

[21:48:59]

iamlindoro:

Well that's handy

[21:49:16]

iamlindoro:

Can I just get diffs of the fixes for my bugs?

[21:49:27]

tgm4883:

yep, but that 1.21 jigawattz is difficult to get sometimes

[21:49:43]

sphery:

I'll send you a banana peel

[21:49:43]

iamlindoro:

apt-get install flucapacitor-dev

[21:49:52]

iamlindoro:

er flux

[21:50:31]

AndyCap:

Ah, the flucapacitor, should be all the rage in a few weeks.

[21:51:07]

[R]:

tgm4883: hey... you're a mythbuntu developer... whats the deal with the retarded proper_shutdown_behavior_for_ubuntu.patch

[21:51:48]

** tgm4883 hides **

[21:51:57]

tgm4883:

not my patch?

[21:52:09]

tgm4883:

or, whats wrong with it?

[21:52:16]

[R]:

it removes features

[21:52:19]

[R]:

for no apparent reason

[21:52:44]

tgm4883:

might have to ping superm1 on that

[21:53:02]

tgm4883:

you are specifically looking to add that back?

[21:53:03]

[R]:

i have to install consolekit and all its crap JUST so i can shutdown my frontend box because of that patch

[21:53:19]

[R]:

because some dev thinks dbus is the "only" way you can shutdown a box

[21:53:44]

sphery:

[R]: I haven't seen the patch, but if it's what I think, I'm pretty sure it's not removing functionality

[21:54:00]

sphery:

what's it look like?

[21:54:28]

[R]:

sphery: it removes the abilty for mythfrontend to use anything abut dbus to reboot/shutdown

[21:54:42]

sphery:

says you

[21:54:47]

sphery:

what's the code say? ;)

[21:56:04]

[R]:

http://mythtv.pastebin.com/k8wdh8ct

[21:56:08]

[R]:

not really sure how many wrong ways you can read that

[21:56:42]

sphery:

OK, that's not what I though

[21:56:42]

iamlindoro:

oof

[21:56:51]

sphery:

I thought it was just removing the default values for the settings

[21:56:55]

sphery:

which were incorrect

[21:56:57]

iamlindoro:

in sphery's defense, they *used* to just clear out the default commands

[21:57:05]

sphery:

yeah, that's what I thought it was

[21:57:12]

iamlindoro:

Now they're taking away your choice, as you say

[21:57:14]

iamlindoro:

lovely

[21:57:29]

[R]:

it pisses me off and confuses users

[21:57:50]

sphery:

well, it seems there's no getting off DBus, now

[21:58:04]

AndyCap:

sphery: it's just a short one.

[21:58:05]

sphery:

after all, it's a mandatory part of real screensaver programs, too, now

[21:58:11]

[R]:

lol

[21:58:22]

sphery:

obviously, this excludes xscreensaver, which will never support DBus

[21:58:41]

sphery:

but according to GNOME and KDE, every app in existence needs to add DBus code to interface with their screensavers

[21:58:47]

[R]:

lol

[21:59:00]

iamlindoro:

Guess we get to call mythbuntu a fork now ;)

[21:59:06]

[R]:

ahha

[21:59:07]

sphery:

sorry, previous discussion still has my blood pressure up about that

[21:59:11]

sphery:

and since they're both dbus...

[21:59:49]

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[22:00:32]

iamlindoro:

That's the last time I defend when people say Ubuntu and friends "take away your access to the system"

[22:01:17]

[R]:

i love the comment on the first line of the patch

[22:01:54]

tgm4883:

oh yea, so thats a superm1 patch, i'll have to chat with him about it

[22:02:03]

iamlindoro:

If that's the goal, I have some other ideas about how to prevent users breaking things

[22:02:10]

[R]:

iamlindoro: hah

[22:02:14]

iamlindoro:

We can only support ivtv cards so that they can't pick the wrong card type!

[22:02:23]

iamlindoro:

We can only use the mythbuntu theme so that they can't pick a broken theme!

[22:02:44]

iamlindoro:

We can reduce mythvideo to one view so that there's no difficulty finding anything!

[22:02:46]

sphery:

ooh, yeah, take out all V4L framegrabber support

[22:03:03]

sphery:

and if they can't change themes, they won't melt down their Atoms with Arclight

[22:03:12]

[R]:

lol

[22:03:17]

iamlindoro:

We can force all videos to be named by their imdb number to prevent filename parsing issues!

[22:04:34]

sphery:

iamlindoro: are you going to make mythvideolink.pl (or, maybe do it right with mythvideolink.py)

[22:04:48]

tgm4883:

on the other hand, [R] why can't your frontend use dbus to shutdown?

[22:05:02]

tgm4883:

I know that was an issue in the past, but it should have been fixed in a more recent build

[22:05:05]

iamlindoro:

tgm4883, What about all the users who want to script other tasks for shutdown and restart?

[22:05:17]

iamlindoro:

(which is something we commonly suggest)

[22:05:38]

** tgm4883 shrugs **

[22:05:47]

tgm4883:

I don't feel one way or the other about the patch

[22:05:54]

[R]:

tgm4883: it can... but there are 2 problems. a) i have to install dbus/consolekit/and friends which i shoudlnt need to b) my box shuts down too fast, and doesnt give the sockets a chance to fully close, so they stay open until the tcp timeout on the backend, i put a sleep in the init scripts to handle that. if i had a custom script to run, i could kill the frontend, wait for the sockets to close, then shutdown

[22:05:54]

tgm4883:

it's not mine

[22:06:53]

sphery:

tgm4883: or, as an alternative, just make dbus/consolekit/policykit/... true dependencies for mythfrontend

[22:07:34]

tgm4883:

well i'll discuss with superm1 when he gets back

[22:08:59]

[R]:

hopefully when 0.24 comes out... i an stop patching the builds

[22:09:45]

tgm4883:

I wonder if it's a fix for an issue on previous releases?

[22:10:45]

[R]:

the old default was bad

[22:10:46]

[R]:

i think

[22:11:44]

sphery:

yeah, the old default was bad due to superm1's patch being accepting/incorporated, then some other user making changes--but not changing the defaults

[22:12:20]

sphery:

and then a bit of a political row that resulted in the defaults not being changed for a while

[22:13:31]

[R]:

sweet, i just went though all my patches and it looks like i can stop patching my backend at 0.24... :)

[22:13:32]

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[22:50:25]

[R]:

SWEET

[22:50:35]

[R]:

wagnerrp: i got fuse.ko to load on my embedded device

[22:51:03]

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[22:52:28]

Sp0tter:

wagnerrp: i'm having trouble getting my -1250 to load, it just came today.. and dmesg says that the board isn't known yet to the driver... is there anything i need besides the v4l-dvb and the firmware package?

[22:52:52]

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[22:53:37]

[R]:

again with this -1250...

[22:54:16]

Sp0tter:

i bought one because wagnerrp said its what he uses :)

[22:54:24]

Sp0tter:

quick fix?

[22:54:25]

[R]:

wtf is a -1250?

[22:54:34]

Sp0tter:

hauppauge

[22:55:15]

Sp0tter:

Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1250 Hybrid TV Tuner /Video Recorder 1196 PCI-Express x1 Interface

[23:01:01]

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[23:05:55]

kormoc is now known as kormoc_afk

[23:10:00]

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[23:10:50]

wagnerrp:

Sp0tter: the HVR-1250 does not use firmware of any sort

[23:10:57]

wagnerrp:

and the drivers are included in any modern kernel

[23:11:28]

Sp0tter:

wagnerrp: what would cause taht issue than

[23:11:55]

wagnerrp:

!seen devinheitmueller

[23:11:55]

MythLogBot:

devinheitmueller was last seen 8 hours 26 minutes 5 seconds ago

[23:12:07]

wagnerrp:

i think he mentioned something about there being a newer revision of the card

[23:12:13]

wagnerrp:

can you pastebin your dmesg?

[23:12:33]

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[23:12:38]

Sp0tter:

sure

[23:12:48]

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[23:13:32]

Sp0tter:

http://pastebin.com/yP1GHDDm

[23:14:18]

wagnerrp:

where did this kernel come from?

[23:14:52]

Sp0tter:

from the Arch Linux repo

[23:14:59]

Sp0tter:

newest one

[23:15:00]

wagnerrp:

it looks like its broken

[23:15:12]

Sp0tter:

Linux pluto 2.6.35-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Sep 29 08:45:18 CEST 2010 x86_64 Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU 330 @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

[23:15:15]

wagnerrp:

unknown symbol usually means youre trying to link a module against the wrong ekrnel

[23:15:21]

wagnerrp:

and... off

[23:15:24]

wagnerrp:

oof

[23:15:30]

wagnerrp:

no better machine to use as a backend?

[23:15:48]

Sp0tter:

this one should do ok

[23:15:56]

wagnerrp:

thats debatable

[23:16:06]

Sp0tter:

i have a quad core propus i could use

[23:16:10]

Sp0tter:

i didnt really thinka bout it

[23:16:17]

Sp0tter:

but either way they both run Arch

[23:16:20]

Sp0tter:

so i ened to fix this problem first

[23:16:59]

wagnerrp:

yeah, im going to bet youre running a module not compiled for your specific kernel

[23:17:06]

wagnerrp:

resulting in it failing to read something properly

[23:17:11]

wagnerrp:

and printing that generic error code

[23:17:17]

Saviq is now known as Saviq_afk

[23:17:29]

wagnerrp:

i would talk to the Arch people about that

[23:17:36]

wagnerrp:

or try rebuilding your own kernel

[23:17:52]

Sp0tter:

i dont think so because i've gottena ll my stuff rom the Arch User Repo

[23:18:23]

wagnerrp:

well then stuff on the arch user repo is broken

[23:18:37]

wagnerrp:

one way or another, the kernel module is not loading properly

[23:20:08]

[R]:

wagnerrp: HAHA... i got the helloworld fuse filesystem working... now i just need to get python installed

[23:22:41]

wagnerrp:

and fuse-py

[23:23:38]

[R]:

and python-mysql

[23:23:51]

wagnerrp:

and lxml

[23:23:56]

wagnerrp:

(thats a bit one)

[23:24:09]

[R]:

will python 2.4 work?

[23:24:19]

wagnerrp:

2.5+

[23:24:26]

wagnerrp:

rather 2.5–2.6

[23:24:32]

[R]:

well if i have 2.5,6,7 which should i pick?

[23:24:35]

wagnerrp:

2.7 is no-go

[23:24:43]

[R]:

ok i'll do 6

[23:24:56]

wagnerrp:

not that i have anything against 7

[23:24:59]

[R]:

i really should install dropbera on this... running between rooms with a usb stick is lame

[23:25:01]

wagnerrp:

but python-mysql doesnt work

[23:25:15]

wagnerrp:

dropbear?

[23:25:33]

[R]:

ssh

[23:25:35]

[R]:

so i can scp

[23:25:44]

wagnerrp:

yeah, was wondering about the misspelling

[23:30:41]

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sphery:

dropbera sits in the old gum tree

[23:45:11]

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[R]:

lol

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Sp0tter:

wagnerrp: after i set the card option in my modprobe.d/cx23885.conf, i get this error in dmesg: http://pastebin.com/xStC3uy9

[23:54:29]

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[23:55:45]

wagnerrp:

you forced it? did you ever fix the module? does it still display those 'Unknown symbol' issues?

[23:57:18]

Sp0tter:

thats all it displays about it

[23:58:05]

wagnerrp:

do you have a /dev/dvb/adapter0 now?

[23:58:16]

Sp0tter:

nope

[23:58:20]

Sp0tter:

no dvb

[23:59:11]

wagnerrp:

chances are you are still suffering the same problem

[23:59:24]

wagnerrp:

and by forcing the card type, you just masked the errors

[23:59:54]

Sp0tter:

alright

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