Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Sunday, October 10th, 2010, 00:02 UTC

[00:02:42]

m4xx:

how would i go about loading the driver?

[00:04:04]

[R]:

read the documentation for your receiver and figure out how to use it?

[00:04:46]

wagnerrp:

im watching the italian job, and theyre talking about how the safe has a glass relock

[00:04:56]

[R]:

love that movie

[00:05:14]

wagnerrp:

if you drill through the glass, and it breaks, steel bars drop down and the safe is permanently locked

[00:05:29]

[R]:

wagnerrp: i thought that was true... is it not?

[00:05:44]

wagnerrp:

maybe its just me... but wouldnt a 30ft drop through the street onto the subway tracks below break the glass?

[00:06:15]

wagnerrp:

just a thought

[00:06:33]

[R]:

haha

[00:06:47]

[R]:

its probably protecgted for that

[00:07:11]

wagnerrp:

why?

[00:07:29]

[R]:

i dunno

[00:07:29]

[R]:

you need to suspend belief for movies

[00:07:32]

[R]:

atleast that's what people tell me

[00:07:37]

wagnerrp:

sure there are no normal circumstances in which a safe would have such a drop

[00:08:11]

wagnerrp:

it seems to me you wouldnt mind buying a new safe in the rare event that legitimately happened

[00:08:34]

[R]:

[mythtv] youmustbethistall

[00:08:37]

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[00:08:37]

[R]:

wtf is he talking about?

[00:08:41]

wagnerrp:

no clue

[00:09:10]

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[00:14:54]

wagnerrp:

of course helicopter blade versus car... car wins every time

[00:15:43]

[R]:

haha

[00:18:53]

tgm4883:

[R], I'm assuming the [mythtv] youmustbethistall is directed toward me?

[00:19:08]

[R]:

tgm4883: it was directed at wagnerrp

[00:19:19]

wagnerrp:

tgm4883: are you posting to the mythtv-dev mailing list as Brian Clem now?

[00:19:25]

tgm4883:

no

[00:19:34]

tgm4883:

but I know what youmustbethistall refers to

[00:19:39]

wagnerrp:

then it was not directed at you in particular

[00:19:54]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-dev/2010-October/069667.html

[00:20:03]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, yea looking at it now

[00:20:20]

tgm4883:

Is he being funny, or is it not obvious?

[00:20:35]

wagnerrp:

i dont get it

[00:20:58]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, youmustbethistall is the password to enable trunk builds in mythbuntu-repos

[00:21:13]

wagnerrp:

oh

[00:21:23]

tgm4883:

it's new as of 2 days ago

[00:21:42]

[R]:

and so he thinks mythtv-dev is the place to complain about mythbuntu... something that has nothing to do with mythtv development?

[00:24:47]

wagnerrp:

[R]: isnt mythbuntu the official mythtv release?

[00:25:21]

tgm4883:

<wagnerrp> ... mythbuntu the official mythtv release

[00:25:26]

tgm4883:

i'm using that in a quote now :)

[00:25:49]

tgm4883:

don't mind the ..., thats not important

[00:26:38]

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[00:27:24]

** wagnerrp just responded **

[00:28:10]

tgm4883:

heh, me too

[00:30:45]

wagnerrp:

holy crap, i just turned on the light and saw a 2" spider running across the room

[00:30:57]

wagnerrp:

i didnt even know we grew them that big around here

[00:32:33]

[R]:

woohoo

[00:32:35]

[R]:

got my lego star wars

[00:35:40]

[R]:

this is going to be so hard

[00:35:45]

[R]:

i dont remember what happneed in star wars

[00:38:29]

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[00:39:54]

sphery:

wagnerrp: how did you know it was mythbuntu-related?

[00:40:08]

** wagnerrp points at the backlog **

[00:40:57]

wagnerrp:

specifically, the last 20 or so lines

[00:41:00]

[R]:

hes just that good

[00:41:01]

[R]:

lol

[00:41:25]

sphery:

heh, cool

[00:41:33]

sphery:

I was lost

[00:41:39]

sphery:

thought it was some random spam

[00:41:40]

wagnerrp:

so was i

[00:42:44]

m4xx:

i added lirc_i2c to /etc/lirc/hardware.conf, did apt-get install lirc and i now have /dev/lircd. when i run lircd --device=/dev/lircd --output=/var/run/lirc/lircd && irw, i still dont get any output

[00:42:51]

m4xx:

dmesg shows lirc_i2c was loaded

[00:43:06]

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[00:43:42]

m4xx:

anyone have any care to chime in or point me in the direction of something i should be reading?

[00:44:01]

[R]:

/dev/lircd isn't a device

[00:44:02]

[R]:

its a socket

[00:44:09]

tgm4883:

sphery, he posted the password, so either he's being funny or he's really dense

[00:44:46]

m4xx:

o

[00:44:47]

m4xx:

ack

[00:44:49]

sphery:

heh

[00:44:50]

m4xx:

i'm kinda lost =[

[00:45:01]

[R]:

that's why you need to follow some type of documetnation

[00:45:15]

m4xx:

where would such documentation be found?

[00:45:53]

[R]:

google

[00:46:11]

[R]:

this is #mythtv-users, nto #lirc

[00:46:11]

m4xx:

you are not very helpful =\

[00:46:39]

m4xx:

ah, finally something worth reading

[00:48:10]

tgm4883:

m4xx, your a ubuntu user aren't you?

[00:48:22]

m4xx:

yes

[00:48:28]

tgm4883:

it shows

[00:48:31]

m4xx:

heh

[00:51:23]

m4xx:

what is the point of being in a user help channel if you are only here to be condescending to people with less experience than you?

[00:52:35]

wagnerrp:

we dont support infrared transmitters, we just use them

[00:52:52]

wagnerrp:

some people in here who have experience can try to give help, but #lirc is the proper place for support

[00:55:00]

tgm4883:

for the record, I wasn't being condescending

[00:55:27]

tgm4883:

I'm a mythbuntu developer, and even I have noticed that ubuntu users tend to demand to be spoonfed

[00:55:50]

wagnerrp:

the draw back of being thought of as the 'easy' distribution

[00:56:04]

tgm4883:

yep

[00:57:55]

m4xx:

by no means do i demand anything. or ask to be spoon fed, but when some one asks for something to read just saying "google" isn't exactly helpful. I've been on google, i'm just not sure what the fuck i should be searching for.

[00:58:57]

kenni:

wagnerrp, tgm4883: The reason why he posted that question to mythtv-dev, and not some mythbuntu list, is probably because there's a link to the mythtv-dev signup page, one screen before he had to enter the password when selecting 0.24 in mythbuntu

[01:00:04]

wagnerrp:

kenni: if he has so little concept of mythtv that he cannot tell the difference between something in mythtv and something from mythbuntu, thats even more reason why not to run trunk

[01:00:25]

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[01:00:48]

kenni:

yup

[01:00:49]

iamlindoro:

m4xx, please see the channel rules, that kind of language isn't acceptable here-- I know you are frustrated but the same people you are irritated at are the ones most capable of helping you if you just do a little legwork first

[01:00:53]

wagnerrp:

trunk is for people either developing or testing trunk

[01:01:10]

m4xx:

i'm sorry for my language.

[01:01:12]

wagnerrp:

and failing that, it should at least only be for people who can figure things out on their own

[01:01:21]

iamlindoro:

m4xx, In short, irw is actually the second "layer" or lirc

[01:01:29]

iamlindoro:

m4xx, here's how it works

[01:01:47]

iamlindoro:

step one is to get lirc loading, meaning the correct module for your receiver is loaded and the daemon is running

[01:01:52]

iamlindoro:

step two is to test with mode2

[01:01:59]

iamlindoro:

mode2 reads the *raw* input from the receiver

[01:02:11]

iamlindoro:

step 3 is to write or download a lircd.conf for your specific remote

[01:02:17]

iamlindoro:

step 4 is to test with irw

[01:02:33]

wagnerrp:

oh, i guess it was someone else who was asking for help with a transmitter

[01:02:40]

tgm4883:

m4xx, I think the issue is you came to a mythtv channel looking for help with lirc. That would be like me going to a rythmbox channel because I can't get audio out of my soundcard using any program

[01:02:40]

iamlindoro:

irw reads the *interpreted* input from the receiver (ie, matches the raw input to the "buttons" defined in lircd.conf

[01:03:00]

iamlindoro:

soi in short, if mode2 doesn't work, then your lircd module/startup is broken

[01:03:13]

iamlindoro:

if mode2 works but irw does not, then your lircd.conf is incorrect

[01:03:36]

iamlindoro:

when both work, then you need one final configuration file, the lircrc, which matches defined buttons to keybindings in a particular program

[01:03:36]

m4xx:

thank you, that is more along the lines of the type of answer i'm looking for =]

[01:04:19]

m4xx:

though i am still at a loss =[

[01:05:42]

iamlindoro:

Beyond giving you those basic troubleshooting steps (which are designed to tell you what "level" is incorrect) you will need to seek specific help about lirc from their documentation, mailing list, or IRC channel

[01:05:50]

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[01:05:51]

iamlindoro:

we are a consumer of lirc's API, not a producer of it

[01:05:55]

wagnerrp:

well if you are in steps one or two, then you havent reached the point at which we can yet help you

[01:06:01]

m4xx:

thanks

[01:06:24]

wagnerrp:

if you are on step 3, then you want http://mythtv.org/wiki/Keybindings

[01:07:18]

wagnerrp:

and possibly http://mythtv.org/wiki/Category:LIRC_Configuration_Files

[01:08:32]

m4xx:

i've already read and understand that part, unfortunately i'm still on step 1 / 2 =[

[01:08:54]

wagnerrp:

then the original diagnosis was correct, you want #lirc

[01:09:26]

iamlindoro:

simply using some package manager to install lirc is unlikely to be enough, fwiw

[01:09:32]

m4xx:

i'm in there. i've asked and awaiting a response

[01:09:48]

m4xx:

"fwiw" ?

[01:09:50]

iamlindoro:

you need to know what module (driver) is correct for your specific receiver hardware and need to have modprobed it successfully

[01:09:54]

iamlindoro:

for what it's worth

[01:10:42]

m4xx:

i thought i did, i thought all hauppauge cards used the

[01:10:53]

m4xx:

lirc_i2c mod

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[01:11:20]

iamlindoro:

some do, some don't, and many of the newer Hauppauge cards require an updated lirc_zilog driver

[01:11:29]

iamlindoro:

which generally means compiling itself

[01:11:33]

iamlindoro:

er it oneself

[01:12:07]

iamlindoro:

In my opinion, my time is too valuable to waste on crap zilog IR receivers, and a good mceusb receiver is cheap and works almost without effort

[01:19:03]

m4xx:

ah, finally, i was missing to modules.

[01:19:12]

m4xx:

thank you for all the help. i really appreciate it =]

[01:19:56]

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[02:47:45]

** tgm4883 sighs **

[02:48:11]

tgm4883:

that long reply, and I forgot to tell him not to top post :(

[02:49:38]

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[02:51:04]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:51:26]

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[02:51:29]

Beirdo:

hope he shows up on IRC....

[02:52:36]

Beirdo:

anyways, the confusion of people running "0.24" is annoying... we need the packagers to NOT prematurely use a version number :)

[02:52:36]

iamlindoro:

tgm4883, out of curiosity, how is that invite to join the dev list worded? I fear we're going to start to see lots of "how does this work, I'm asking here because I'm running trunk and the packages said to join" messages

[02:53:01]

tgm4883:

iamlindoro, sec, let me pastebin it for you

[02:53:16]

iamlindoro:

tgm4883, I know you know this, but obviously we only want people posting to the dev list with development related messages, rather than just requests for help with development code

[02:53:24]

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[02:53:35]

tgm4883:

iamlindoro, yea I know. I've been playing with the wording alot lately

[02:53:41]

iamlindoro:

cool

[02:55:16]

wagnerrp:

tgm4883: you from san diego?

[02:55:32]

tgm4883:

http://pastebin.com/DDajaNET

[02:55:37]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, nope, salem oregon

[02:55:38]

tgm4883:

why?

[02:55:45]

wagnerrp:

'stay classy'

[02:55:48]

tgm4883:

heh

[02:56:07]

tgm4883:

I thought he needed it

[02:56:26]

wagnerrp:

well you could have said the alternate sign off

[02:56:30]

tgm4883:

iamlindoro, that is actually from the templates file, but I think it should make sense to you. Let me know if you have questions/suggestions

[02:56:38]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, alternate?

[02:56:38]

wagnerrp:

i dont think anyone would have thought worse of you

[02:56:48]

wagnerrp:

go f--- yourself

[02:56:57]

tgm4883:

heh, figured it was something like that

[02:57:06]

wagnerrp:

never seen anchorman?

[02:57:13]

Beirdo:

or "watch you BLEEEEP language"

[02:57:17]

Beirdo:

your... rather

[02:57:18]

tgm4883:

only once

[02:57:27]

iamlindoro:

tgm4883, I think that's good, wonder if maybe we can note that they should also be subscribed to commits, and should be following it closely for changes before requesting help with any odd behavior?

[02:57:27]

wagnerrp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoKAcVL_phI

[02:57:31]

Beirdo:

that was one our bus driver used once...

[02:58:02]

tgm4883:

iamlindoro, I didn't know what list you guys wanted people to subscribe to. I asked here before and that was the one I was told

[02:58:15]

iamlindoro:

tgm4883, Anyone using trunk should be subscribed to both

[02:58:20]

tgm4883:

ok

[02:58:23]

tgm4883:

I can add that

[02:58:29]

tgm4883:

you have a link?

[02:58:36]

tgm4883:

I don't think i'm subscribed to that list :)

[02:58:37]

iamlindoro:

As we document all changes in our commit messages, and expect that people should know anything in any commit

[02:58:46]

iamlindoro:

think of it as a password in mailing list format ;)

[02:59:12]

iamlindoro:

http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-commits/

[02:59:40]

iamlindoro:

Basically, when I (or anyone) write a novel about how something is changing, and why, and then a few days later someone writes a bitchy note about it, we know who to hate ;)

[02:59:40]

Beirdo:

yeah, if they aren't subscribed, they should do so (and read the archives) before asking questions that are answered in commit messages already

[03:00:09]

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[03:00:36]

Beirdo:

http://pastebin.com/DDajaNET

[03:00:41]

Beirdo:

wha?

[03:00:48]

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[03:01:04]

** Beirdo slaps himself. don't pick up the laptop by the right mouse button, tard **

[03:10:21]

tgm4883:

iamlindoro, almost forgot about MCC http://pastebin.com/spam.php?i=x7MFAA3Q

[03:10:30]

tgm4883:

this is the wording of it in MCC

[03:10:37]

tgm4883:

I've already added the commits link

[03:10:59]

tgm4883:

bah

[03:11:02]

tgm4883:

http://pastebin.com/x7MFAA3Q

[03:11:07]

** tgm4883 is a noob apparently **

[03:11:18]

iamlindoro:

haha, it's okay

[03:11:34]

iamlindoro:

and possibly worth calling it potentially *severe* breakage

[03:11:39]

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[03:11:58]

tgm4883:

the links work too in MCC, doesn't look crap like the pastebin

[03:12:02]

iamlindoro:

ie, there's going to be a long period in the .25 dev cycle where people may be unable to perform basic setup actions

[03:12:08]

iamlindoro:

(as one example)

[03:12:18]

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[03:12:23]

tgm4883:

severe breakage it is

[03:12:39]

iamlindoro:

Don't mean to be nitpicky :)

[03:12:52]

tgm4883:

no worries. I want to get it right

[03:13:02]

tgm4883:

i'm almost to the point I don't ever have to touch this package again

[03:13:20]

iamlindoro:

There will always be people who irresponsibly choose to run trunk anyway, but you will have done your best

[03:13:40]

** wagnerrp wonders why people are still trying to race in 25yr old vehicles **

[03:14:23]

iamlindoro:

For the same reason people are still trying to run 2010 software on 1999 systems

[03:14:38]

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[03:14:38]

wagnerrp:

commenting on the guy's name in #mythtv

[03:15:17]

wagnerrp:

surely suspension and engine technology has advanced a worthwhile amount in the past quarter century

[03:17:00]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: I'd pit a 1980 F1 car against any car we own... any day

[03:17:35]

Beirdo:

but not against a current F1 car :)

[03:19:07]

tgm4883:

ok, changes commited. Should be out to users tomorrow

[03:19:47]

wagnerrp:

actually... i would almost bet on a 1980 F1 car against a modern one

[03:19:55]

wagnerrp:

sure, weve had 30 years of advancement

[03:20:08]

Beirdo:

and 30 years of stupid rules too

[03:20:13]

wagnerrp:

but the mid 80s were when the FISA really started restricting stuff

[03:20:26]

wagnerrp:

aerodynamic and engine restrictions

[03:20:39]

Beirdo:

true nuff

[03:20:43]

wagnerrp:

theyre currently not half as powerful as the early/mid-80s cars were

[03:20:58]

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[03:21:24]

Beirdo:

it might be an interesting race

[03:22:17]

Beirdo:

we need Damon Hill.. and a rainy day

[03:23:14]

Beirdo:

I remember watching him keep Schumacher on his tail for many laps in bad weather

[03:23:49]

Beirdo:

on slicks too

[03:24:02]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, the cars havent really changed visibly much in the past 30 years

[03:24:11]

Beirdo:

tat would been earlyish 90s

[03:24:20]

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[03:26:18]

Beirdo:

as for road cars... there's been a lot of "safety" crap added that seriously weighs down the cars

[03:26:32]

Beirdo:

crap with regards to racing, not normal use

[03:26:45]

Beirdo:

so who knows

[03:29:21]

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[03:30:10]

wagnerrp:

i dont care, a 1500kg car with 350bhp, modern tires, active suspension, and AWD is going to beat the pants off a 1000kg 150bhp product of the '80s

[03:30:31]

wagnerrp:

in /all/ environments

[03:31:23]

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[03:31:50]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:32:01]

Beirdo:

Top Gear may disprove that :)

[03:32:29]

Beirdo:

and not THAT many current cars are 350HP

[03:32:43]

wagnerrp:

you would be surprised

[03:33:30]

wagnerrp:

most sedans have a 200hp+ option, and most 'sport' cars have 300hp+ options

[03:33:49]

Beirdo:

true

[03:33:58]

Beirdo:

meh :)

[03:34:08]

wagnerrp:

im not saying most cars sold there are

[03:34:13]

wagnerrp:

im just saying its not hard to find one

[03:34:20]

Beirdo:

it's all rather academic until you get em all on the track and time em

[03:34:43]

wagnerrp:

everyone has been pushing 'more efficiency'

[03:34:54]

Beirdo:

and the tires being modern... red herring

[03:34:55]

wagnerrp:

but HP has really been cranking up in the past 10 years

[03:35:03]

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[03:35:09]

Beirdo:

any 80s car on the road racing will have modern tires

[03:35:23]

wagnerrp:

ok, ill give you that one

[03:35:32]

Beirdo:

anyone racing on 30yr old tires is a moron :)

[03:36:20]

Beirdo:

HP isn't the only factor of course. Torque goes a long way too

[03:36:55]

Beirdo:

the power curve on a lot of the high HP motors (especially Honda and friends) is very top-heavy

[03:37:18]

Beirdo:

whether that is good or not depends on driving style, I'd bet

[03:37:30]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but theyve been pushing them to be pretty broad and flat recently too

[03:37:32]

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[03:38:08]

Beirdo:

I mean, if it were just HP, then a semi truck cab would win every race :)

[03:38:48]

wagnerrp:

nah... semis actually have surprisingly low hp

[03:39:08]

Beirdo:

400+ is normal I thought

[03:39:24]

tgm4883:

semi's just have may gear ratios

[03:39:26]

Beirdo:

but the power is in a very narrow band

[03:40:31]

wagnerrp:

for instance, check out the power band on my dad's solstice... http://www.solsticegxpowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91

[03:40:35]

wagnerrp:

its basically flat

[03:41:03]

wagnerrp:

little 2L I-4, 260ft-lb from 2k-5k RPM

[03:41:39]

Beirdo:

that power curve is atrocious

[03:41:49]

wagnerrp:

thats becoming fairly common on modern cars with variable cams

[03:42:10]

Beirdo:

you only have HP at the high end

[03:42:14]

Beirdo:

much like a Honda

[03:42:50]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: yeah... thats what happens when you have constant torque

[03:42:57]

Beirdo:

lots of torque, no power

[03:43:00]

wagnerrp:

constant torque means constant acceleration

[03:43:18]

Beirdo:

heh, I guess

[03:43:48]

wagnerrp:

much easier to handle that way

[03:44:19]

Beirdo:

makes sense, I guess

[03:44:21]

wagnerrp:

they actually offer a factory rechip that bumps torque another 30ft-lb, and makes the curves look more normal

[03:45:38]

Beirdo:

cool

[03:45:56]

Beirdo:

at least it has reasonable torque anyways, so the thing will move

[03:45:58]

Beirdo:

:)

[03:46:28]

Beirdo:

anyways, all irrelevant... must watch TV

[04:04:31]

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[05:31:08]

peteforsyth:

hi- is anybody up for helping a MythTV newbie?

[05:31:42]

peteforsyth:

I just completed my first Mythbuntu install — have gotten it to recognize my TV card, but can't figure out how to get it to scan for channels.

[05:32:04]

wagnerrp:

what card?

[05:32:49]

peteforsyth:

it's a hauppage WinTV

[05:32:58]

peteforsyth:

one sec, will get the model number

[05:33:06]

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[05:33:49]

peteforsyth:

Hauppauge WinTV 61371 PCI TV FM Tuner Card

[05:34:05]

wagnerrp:

that sounds old and garbagy

[05:34:19]

peteforsyth:

hmm

[05:34:34]

peteforsyth:

well, I got it cheap on eBay, definitely not expecting top notch performance

[05:34:47]

wagnerrp:

cheap like... $5 including shipping?

[05:35:15]

peteforsyth:

but it's supposed to work with MythTV, and I thought I could experiment with it and get a feel for MythTV before deciding what higher-end card to invest in.

[05:35:19]

peteforsyth:

yeah, something like that.

[05:35:53]

wagnerrp:

can you tell what driver its using?

[05:36:15]

peteforsyth:

not sure I'd know how, but if you can tell me where to look I can.

[05:36:21]

wagnerrp:

its either going to be ivtv (some cx___ blend) or bttv/bt8x8

[05:36:29]

wagnerrp:

lsmod, and see whats loaded

[05:36:34]

peteforsyth:

I'm fairly comfortable in the terminal, but not intimately linux-familioar.

[05:36:50]

peteforsyth:

gimme a secc

[05:37:04]

peteforsyth:

thanks, by the way :)

[05:37:06]

wagnerrp:

if its 'ivtv', youre in luck

[05:37:17]

wagnerrp:

if its 'bttv', trash it and look for a PVR-150

[05:37:27]

wagnerrp:

should be $20-$25 on ebay

[05:37:37]

peteforsyth:

ah, it's bttv.

[05:37:59]

peteforsyth:

okay. so, this card is technically supposed to work --

[05:38:12]

wagnerrp:

technically, yes

[05:38:13]

peteforsyth:

but it sounds like it would just be endless headaches to make "supposed to" into reality

[05:38:14]

peteforsyth:

?

[05:38:53]

wagnerrp:

in concept, it should only be a couple steps to get it working

[05:39:04]

wagnerrp:

in practice, its endless headaches

[05:39:13]

wagnerrp:

you can use it, and people still do

[05:39:20]

wagnerrp:

but the ivtv stuff 'just works'

[05:39:35]

wagnerrp:

it has been the recommended hardware for analog capture on mythtv for 5+ years

[05:39:39]

peteforsyth:

OK, cool. That's hugely helpful.

[05:39:47]

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[05:39:57]

peteforsyth:

I'm looking for a MythTV setup, not an endless project :)

[05:40:07]

peteforsyth:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hauppauge-PVR-150-MCE-265 . . . _1017wt_1141

[05:40:09]

wagnerrp:

what is your final plan?

[05:40:11]

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[05:40:26]

wagnerrp:

yeah, anything 'Hauppauge PVR-150' should work

[05:40:41]

peteforsyth:

not firmly fixed, but the basic idea is to have something that will work with our Comcast digital cable (with a Comcast decoder box)

[05:40:48]

wagnerrp:

multiple tuners? analog only? digital? broadcast? cable? satellite?

[05:40:53]

peteforsyth:

ideally, it'll be a back- and front-end

[05:40:56]

wagnerrp:

DTA or full cable box?

[05:41:16]

peteforsyth:

full cable box (I think is necessary, otherwise many channels would be encrypted, right?)

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[05:41:35]

wagnerrp:

comcast should be offering 'digital transport adapters'

[05:41:35]

peteforsyth:

eventually, maybe 4 tuners — that's how many PCI slots I have

[05:41:36]

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[05:41:54]

wagnerrp:

basically, just a digital tuner outputting to modulated NTSC

[05:42:04]

wagnerrp:

designed to replace old analog cable

[05:42:05]

peteforsyth:

I have a motorola box

[05:42:19]

wagnerrp:

in that case... http://mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable

[05:42:20]

peteforsyth:

it's about the size of a wifi router...

[05:42:40]

peteforsyth:

ah, cool. Don't think I had found that page.

[05:42:51]

wagnerrp:

full cable boxes, you can either use that 150 to capture in standard definition, or you can use a HDPVR to capture in high definition

[05:42:55]

peteforsyth:

so what I have is called a DTA?

[05:42:59]

wagnerrp:

or you can try your luck with direct firewire capture

[05:43:21]

peteforsyth:

right. what I read about firewire suggested that it will not include encrypted channels

[05:43:25]

wagnerrp:

do you get a full lineup? or just channels ~1–100 on it?

[05:43:31]

peteforsyth:

and, we don't have a box with firewire

[05:43:41]

wagnerrp:

firewire will include everything that is not DRMd

[05:43:47]

peteforsyth:

full lineup — we get ESPN, TBS, etc.

[05:43:49]

wagnerrp:

encryption and DRM are independent

[05:43:57]

peteforsyth:

aaah.

[05:44:10]

peteforsyth:

so DRM would apply to...what?

[05:44:11]

wagnerrp:

does your box have baseband video outputs? or just coaxial?

[05:44:16]

peteforsyth:

HBO, pay per view, etc?

[05:44:32]

wagnerrp:

DRM is in the form of 'copy freely', 'copy once', 'copy never' tags

[05:44:36]

peteforsyth:

coax and the red/yellow/white audio and video outs

[05:44:47]

wagnerrp:

a digital tuner plugged into mythtv can only access unencrypted content

[05:44:59]

peteforsyth:

yeah, I know DRM as a concept...just don't know how it applies to comcast cable offerings.

[05:45:14]

wagnerrp:

if you have anything other than coaxial output, that is not a DTA

[05:45:41]

wagnerrp:

the cable box will decode encrypted content, and freely stream it out over firewire if it is marked 'copy freely'

[05:45:48]

peteforsyth:

model: DCT700/US

[05:46:01]

wagnerrp:

it will stream it out over firewire to any 5c authenticated machine if it is marked 'copy once'

[05:46:09]

wagnerrp:

and it will only allow direct playback if 'copy never'

[05:46:20]

peteforsyth:

OK.

[05:46:25]

wagnerrp:

we can use the unencrypted and copy freely content

[05:46:40]

wagnerrp:

or you can use analog capture and get the other stuff

[05:47:15]

peteforsyth:

so, in practical terms — do you have any idea what ESPN, Comedy Central, and the like are likely to be?

[05:47:34]

wagnerrp:

no clue, it changes from franchise to franchise

[05:47:44]

peteforsyth:

Those are the channels that we can get through this DCT700 box, but that we CAN'T get if we just plug a cable-ready TV into the cable channe

[05:47:52]

peteforsyth:

into the cable coming out of the wall, I mean.

[05:48:50]

wagnerrp:

that 150 will function like a cable-ready tv

[05:48:51]

peteforsyth:

OK. So, it sounds to me like (1) I should ask the cable company about getting a full cable box (which may cost more month-to-month)

[05:49:05]

peteforsyth:

OK

[05:49:21]

wagnerrp:

it sounds like you have a full cable box

[05:49:24]

wagnerrp:

just not an HD one

[05:49:41]

peteforsyth:

ah, OK.

[05:49:46]

peteforsyth:

Also not one with a Firewire port.

[05:49:48]

wagnerrp:

the DTAs are generally free

[05:50:04]

wagnerrp:

only HD boxes will have firewire

[05:50:08]

peteforsyth:

ok.

[05:51:00]

peteforsyth:

So basically I shoulld just get that PVR-150, and that will allow me to experiment at the level I "thought" I was at with this WinTV piece of crap

[05:51:23]

wagnerrp:

the cheap WinTV is a 'framegrabber'

[05:51:39]

wagnerrp:

that means your computer has to capture and compress raw audio and video

[05:51:48]

peteforsyth:

right, I knew that much--

[05:52:00]

wagnerrp:

the PVR is an mpeg encoder

[05:52:06]

wagnerrp:

meaning the card itself handles everything

[05:52:11]

peteforsyth:

right.

[05:52:15]

wagnerrp:

and if you 'cat /dev/video0', you get a nice mpeg stream

[05:52:17]

fedorared:

It's all WinTV just some has more hardware encoding chips than others

[05:52:21]

wagnerrp:

basically, trivial to set up

[05:52:32]

wagnerrp:

right, its a WinTV-PVR-150

[05:52:38]

peteforsyth:

so I was hoping to start with the framegrabber approach for max. flexibility, and expand to MPEG encoders later on...

[05:52:40]

wagnerrp:

PVR vs. non-PVR

[05:52:49]

peteforsyth:

...but maybe my idea was ill-conceived.

[05:53:05]

wagnerrp:

yeah, easiest to avoid at all costs

[05:53:46]

peteforsyth:

"PVR" stands for...?

[05:54:09]

peteforsyth:

I know all this stuff is on the wiki, just having trouble finding it at the moment :)

[05:54:18]

wagnerrp:

personal video recorder

[05:54:36]

wagnerrp:

basically, the PVR cards are designed for recording, while the framegrabbers are designed for live viewing

[05:54:46]

peteforsyth:

aaaaah.

[05:54:48]

wagnerrp:

if you try to switch roles, neither works very well

[05:54:51]

peteforsyth:

never grasped that part.

[05:55:44]

peteforsyth:

so, live viewing is sort important here — it would be nice to be able to plug the PC into the cable box, and then use a laptop to watch the premium channels anywhere in the apartment, over wifi

[05:56:02]

wagnerrp:

mythtv only does recording

[05:56:08]

peteforsyth:

oh??

[05:56:16]

wagnerrp:

even if you are watching 'live', it is still recording to disk, and then playing back from disk

[05:56:27]

peteforsyth:

oh! OK, that makes sense.

[05:56:31]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to something like tvtime which is designed only for live viewing

[05:56:46]

peteforsyth:

amazing — I've read lots of stuff on the web sites about this, but apparently missed some pretty basic concepts....

[05:56:58]

wagnerrp:

it basically just copies the raw frames directly out of the framegrabber and straight into your video card's framebuffer

[05:57:07]

peteforsyth:

OK.

[05:57:14]

peteforsyth:

tvtime is a linux app?

[05:57:27]

wagnerrp:

the PVR cards allow you to record straight to disk easily, while the framegrabber cards allow you to view directly easily

[05:57:27]

peteforsyth:

maybe I can fool with that while I wait for my PVR-150 to arrive :)

[05:57:34]

wagnerrp:

yes

[05:57:46]

peteforsyth:

get my $5 worth

[05:58:49]

peteforsyth:

well wagnerrp I am really grateful for all your help...this makes it all seem much more manageable

[06:00:37]

peteforsyth:

thanks very much, I'm off to place my order and install tvtime!

[06:08:00]

peteforsyth:

wagnerrp: tvtime works like a charm, nice to at least see I've gotten *somewhere*.

[06:08:45]

peteforsyth:

even if it's just replacing my cheap TV with a lot of computer junk around a crappy card ;)

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[06:20:16]

Beirdo:

snicker.

[06:20:34]

Beirdo:

watching an old Top Gear.

[06:20:49]

Beirdo:

they put "K.NOB" on James May's Aston Martin

[06:21:16]

Beirdo:

oooh. Law & Order: UK?

[06:22:14]

wagnerrp:

knob?

[06:22:21]

Beirdo:

yeah.

[06:22:35]

Beirdo:

instead of J. May, the other two changed it to K. Nob

[06:22:41]

Beirdo:

for the driver name decal

[06:23:02]

Beirdo:

good infantile humor. Gotta love it

[06:27:09]

Beirdo:

urgh

[06:27:18]

Beirdo:

that Dexter won't play back righ

[06:27:44]

Beirdo:

the audio just keeps falling further behind

[06:27:50]

Beirdo:

never seen it do THAT before

[06:28:02]

Beirdo:

I'll go back to it late

[06:28:05]

Beirdo:

later

[06:28:11]

Beirdo:

what is with me today?

[06:28:50]

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[06:46:52]

peteforsyth:

got another question here..I just ripped a CD, but it doesn't seem to show up in the media library.

[06:47:15]

peteforsyth:

can play back directly from CD, but not MP3. am I overlooking somethign?

[06:47:19]

[R]:

did you rip it to the directory your thing looks in

[06:47:21]

[R]:

and did you rescan?

[06:47:32]

peteforsyth:

well, I went with the default..

[06:47:46]

peteforsyth:

but "rescan" — no — that's probalby the problem, huh. where's that option?

[06:47:56]

[R]:

probably the menu

[06:47:59]

wagnerrp:

those folder settings have no default

[06:48:09]

wagnerrp:

you have to set them before they will work

[06:48:15]

peteforsyth:

hmm

[06:48:30]

peteforsyth:

ok. using the backend setup utility?

[06:48:38]

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[06:48:39]

wagnerrp:

thats all frontend

[06:48:55]

wagnerrp:

music has not been updated to use the backend yet

[06:49:04]

peteforsyth:

oh. I thought ripped cds would go somewhere that the backend looks?

[06:49:34]

peteforsyth:

so it doesn't maintain a central music library that multiple frontends can access?

[06:49:53]

wagnerrp:

the database tables are global, but the backend has no part in it

[06:50:09]

wagnerrp:

frontends must be configured to use the same storage paths manually

[06:51:04]

peteforsyth:

aah

[06:51:25]

peteforsyth:

so each frontend gets to query the SQL database, but bypasses the backend deamon in the process?

[06:51:35]

[R]:

theres no "bypass"

[06:51:44]

wagnerrp:

the backend doesnt touch that stuff

[06:51:56]

wagnerrp:

and the frontend uses the database for almost everything

[06:52:06]

peteforsyth:

hm. I think I am in a little over my head on this.

[06:52:24]

peteforsyth:

There's a SQL database that is accessible from any local network node, then?

[06:52:31]

peteforsyth:

and it coexists with a Samba share?

[06:52:32]

wagnerrp:

yes

[06:52:43]

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[06:52:50]

wagnerrp:

samba has nothing to do with mythtv

[06:53:00]

peteforsyth:

ok

[06:53:29]

wagnerrp:

some operations can be pushed over mythprotocol, some require direct file access

[06:53:48]

wagnerrp:

however you want to provide that direct file access is up to you, NFS, CIFS (samba), or otherwise

[06:53:59]

peteforsyth:

I see.

[06:54:08]

wagnerrp:

recording and transcoding must have direct file access

[06:54:23]

wagnerrp:

commdetection, recording playback, and video playback (mythvideo) can be pumped over mythprotocol

[06:54:44]

peteforsyth:

so, if I ripped a CD without previously setting a folder..it went to /dev/null?

[06:54:53]

wagnerrp:

music and the photo gallery need direct file access

[06:55:01]

wagnerrp:

i have no idea where it would be sent

[06:55:06]

wagnerrp:

ive never used the CD ripping in mythtv

[06:55:12]

peteforsyth:

ok.

[06:55:49]

peteforsyth:

so I need to (1) figure out how to set the directory for CD ripping, and (2) figure out how to rescan.

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[06:56:05]

wagnerrp:

all in the frontend music settings

[06:56:19]

wagnerrp:

although i would assume anything ripped by mythtv would be automatically added

[06:56:59]

peteforsyth:

yeah, that's what I was thinking...

[06:57:22]

peteforsyth:

don't see access to a settings menu for ripping, but I'll keep digging.

[06:57:46]

wagnerrp:

its under settings

[06:57:51]

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[06:57:52]

wagnerrp:

back out to the main menu, last option

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[06:59:54]

peteforsyth:

hmm. don't see "settings" there

[07:00:00]

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[07:00:07]

peteforsyth:

see "utilities/setup"

[07:00:22]

peteforsyth:

it has the "rescan" option, but not a place to choose a directory.

[07:00:39]

peteforsyth:

oh wait, I think I see it.

[07:02:04]

peteforsyth:

well, sort of. It lets me choose the format of ALBUM/ARTIST/TRACK-TITLE and the like, but..I don't see an option for a master path.

[07:03:42]

peteforsyth:

I see /var/mythtv/music/ is the default directory

[07:05:49]

peteforsyth:

weird. OK, this will take some major googling I think, and I'm too beat. I'll check it out later. Thanks again for your help wagnerrp — much appreciated!

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[08:19:53]

ciphergoth:

So lircd or in my case inputlircd listens to the remote control and translates it into a sequence of events that it writes to a Unix domain socket (in this instance /var/run/lirc/lircd ). What listens to that socket? Does the X server listen and translate the events into keystrokes? Does the MythTV frontend listen? Or am I misunderstanding the process?

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[09:59:43]

justinh:

ciphergoth: AFAIK your remote driver is actually an event generator anyway – one which looks like an input device such as a keyboard

[10:00:07]

justinh:

what lirc would likely do is intercept that & turn it into lirc

[10:00:10]

ciphergoth:

justinh: so it generates X events that look like keyboard events

[10:00:19]

justinh:

yeah I think so

[10:00:25]

ciphergoth:

I think that inputlirc is a replacement for lirc rather than a module

[10:01:03]

ciphergoth:

So is it the X server that listens to that socket and generates the X events? Is it an X client of some sort? Or is the socket not part of how it works?

[10:01:50]

justinh:

AFAIK the actual remote device driver is what sends events to X

[10:02:17]

justinh:

I really wish there was a lirc irc channel

[10:03:04]

justinh:

isn't there a howto for your remote & lirc somewhere?

[10:03:19]

ciphergoth:

There is but I couldn't get it to work, and I REALLY REALLY tried!

[10:03:49]

ciphergoth:

in the end someone suggested inputlirc

[10:03:56]

justinh:

<3 my homebrewed serial port receiver :D

[10:04:11]

ciphergoth:

and that was the first thing that actually meant that I could see button presses for more than one button in irw

[10:04:33]

justinh:

well – that meant you were on your way

[10:04:35]

ciphergoth:

I wish I could find the remote that came with my TV card, I suspect that would be a lot easier, or at least a lot more like what other people are doing

[10:04:38]

ciphergoth:

right

[10:04:42]

ciphergoth:

what's the next step then?

[10:05:19]

justinh:

I dunno how inputlirc works but ordinary lirc takes its remote key definitions from a config file

[10:05:19]

ciphergoth:

I've tried putting a config file in .lirc/mythtv

[10:05:55]

justinh:

so if you miss any remote presses from irw it's because the definition is missing from that config file – not the mythtv lircrc config file

[10:06:13]

ciphergoth:

no that part works now

[10:06:22]

ciphergoth:

irw can see all the buttons except one, weirdly, but I can do without that one

[10:06:35]

ciphergoth:

it's a lot more buttons than I could get to work under lirc

[10:06:40]

justinh:

right so do you have a lircd.conf file with the button definitions in there?

[10:06:54]

ciphergoth:

no, inputlirc doesn't need one

[10:07:13]

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[10:07:17]

justinh:

if you're really not bothered about that last button then all you need do is make the button definitions in the lircrc file match up with whatever irw outputs when you press each button

[10:07:19]

ciphergoth:

but all that is before the events arrive on the socket, right?

[10:07:35]

ciphergoth:

OK

[10:07:46]

ciphergoth:

so, some process must be listening to the socket that lirc or inputlirc writes the button events to

[10:07:49]

ciphergoth:

what is that process?

[10:07:59]

ciphergoth:

Is it the X server process, or is it mythtv, or something else?

[10:08:07]

justinh:

the button = lines in the lircrc file need to exactly match the correct button name – i.e. whatever is in a lircd.conf file or whatever irw reports for that button press

[10:08:13]

ciphergoth:

yes

[10:08:23]

ciphergoth:

and the config file is .lirc/mythtv right?

[10:08:27]

justinh:

nope

[10:08:40]

justinh:

~/.mythtv/lircrc or ~/.lircrc

[10:08:59]

ciphergoth:

oh! the docs I was reading must be wrong or out of date

[10:09:11]

justinh:

not out of date. just wrong

[10:09:20]

ciphergoth:

and this is the config file that has prog = ... button = ... config = ... stanzas?

[10:09:21]

justinh:

it's never been about .lirc/mythtv

[10:09:24]

justinh:

yes

[10:09:41]

justinh:

where button = FOO is the name of the button according to irw etc

[10:10:05]

justinh:

and config = BAR is the key or key combination you want mythtv to read it as

[10:10:24]

ciphergoth:

here's where I got that from: http://www.doctort.org/adam/general/update-on . . . ntu-810.html

[10:10:26]

justinh:

e.g. button = Play config = P

[10:10:27]

ciphergoth:

yep got that

[10:10:41]

justinh:

ciphergoth: oh, just some blog or other. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT

[10:11:02]

justinh:

blogs are a pox on technical matters where howtos are concerned

[10:11:05]

ciphergoth:

mmm, as opposed to the scads of detailed, reliable information about setting these things up...

[10:12:09]

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[10:12:35]

ciphergoth:

sadly I'm getting no more joy from the new file location

[10:12:36]

justinh:

oh wait – now I realise that for mythbuntu that might actually be correct

[10:12:54]

justinh:

ciphergoth: if irw works, mythfrontend should work too

[10:13:02]

ciphergoth:

strictly speaking I'm running MythTV on Ubuntu rather than Mythbuntu, but I don't suppose it's a huge difference

[10:13:09]

justinh:

yeah it can be

[10:13:38]

ciphergoth:

Mythbuntu seemed to be very invasive, unnecessarily so

[10:13:39]

justinh:

what user is mythfrontend running as?

[10:13:43]

ciphergoth:

mythtv

[10:13:59]

justinh:

and you're logged in as mythtv, putting the lircrc file in /home/mythtv/.mythtv/ ?

[10:14:05]

ciphergoth:

yes

[10:14:18]

justinh:

and you restarted mythfrontend? because it only ever reads it at startup

[10:14:25]

justinh:

I mean when the program loads

[10:14:26]

ciphergoth:

head ~mythtv/.mythtv/lircrc

[10:14:34]

ciphergoth:

I restarted gdm which restarts mythfrontend

[10:14:45]

justinh:

righto

[10:14:53]

justinh:

~mythtv?

[10:15:04]

justinh:

~ == /home/YOU

[10:15:07]

ciphergoth:

no

[10:15:12]

ciphergoth:

~/foo = your home

[10:15:14]

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[10:15:15]

ciphergoth:

~foo = foo's home

[10:15:19]

ciphergoth:

a useful bashism

[10:15:24]

justinh:

ahh didn't know that

[10:15:35]

justinh:

so can mythfrontend even read that file?

[10:15:56]

ciphergoth:

I ran "head ~mythtv/.mythtv/lircrc" and got the first stanza

[10:16:01]

ciphergoth:

so yes

[10:16:16]

justinh:

no, I mean can the 'mythtv' user read the file?

[10:16:24]

ciphergoth:

I was the mythtv user when I ran it

[10:16:44]

ciphergoth:

it's owned by mythtv and world readable

[10:16:54]

justinh:

I just run everything as me on my frontend. don't see any need to even have a mythtv user

[10:17:14]

justinh:

another reaction to mythbuntu/ubuntu hand-holding nonsense

[10:17:16]

justinh:

;)

[10:17:21]

ciphergoth:

hand holding is good

[10:17:30]

justinh:

I disagree

[10:17:44]

justinh:

so if you run irw as the mythtv user do you still see keypresses of the remote?

[10:17:54]

ciphergoth:

yes

[10:18:00]

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[10:18:19]

justinh:

tell you what. upload the whole lircrc file into a pastebin & I'll have a look

[10:18:47]

ciphergoth:

I'm only expecting two stanzas to work at the moment

[10:18:58]

justinh:

I've never bothered using the ubuntu lirc file generator stuff. it's not that I don't trust it it's because I prefer to make my own

[10:19:03]

ciphergoth:

I haven't re-written the whole file, I'm just trying to get the up/down buttosn to work

[10:19:15]

ciphergoth:

I haven't used that either

[10:19:21]

justinh:

just saying

[10:19:24]

justinh:

lemme see the file

[10:19:51]

ciphergoth:

what pastebin is preferred around here?

[10:19:58]

justinh:

whichever you want

[10:20:04]

justinh:

btw did you ever see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Twinhan_USB_HID_Remote ?

[10:20:13]

ciphergoth:

yep

[10:20:22]

ciphergoth:

couldn't get those instructions to work, tried for hours

[10:20:47]

ciphergoth:

here's what I said just before someone suggested inputlirc:

[10:20:50]

ciphergoth:

In case anyone has joined who can help, here is my saga of woe. I've just upgraded from Karmic to Lucid, and my remote control has stopped working. It's one of these: http://mythtv.org/wiki/Twinhan_USB_HID_Remote . With Karmic, every button generated an X keycode, and I remapped these to suitable keysyms. Under Lucid, only of the 11 of the 32 buttons generate X events. Googling around it seemed like LIRC was the better

[10:20:52]

ciphergoth:

way to get it working. I've got udev set up to map the device to /dev/input/irremote. "cat /dev/input/irremote" shows every button does something, but both of the lircd.conf files for it I can find online seem to generate an event only for the "tab" key (testing with "irw"). I tried generating my own lircd.conf file with irrecord, but it mapped every key to the keycode 0x0. Is there anything left for me to try?

[10:20:54]

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[10:21:59]

justinh:

meh. loopy lynx :-(

[10:22:10]

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[10:22:21]

ciphergoth:

but then inputlirc was able to generate irw-visible events for 31 out of 32 buttons so that was better

[10:22:38]

ciphergoth:

What is it jwz says about suggesting people change their distro in response to such difficulties?

[10:23:13]

justinh:

changing distro to get around a problem? EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK

[10:23:24]

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[10:23:50]

justinh:

I hate ubuntu for that. for encouraging it too. oh, you need a newer version of $program? Better apt-get dist-upgrade

[10:23:58]

ciphergoth:

I'm still curious to know: what is the actual name of the process that listens to the socket when it's not irw?

[10:24:20]

justinh:

mythfrontend listens to lirc sockets IIRC

[10:24:39]

justinh:

and I've never even played with inputlirc so I dunno

[10:24:50]

justinh:

and since nobody else seems to be here..

[10:25:00]

justinh:

or willing to answer (as bloody usual)

[10:26:05]

justinh:

oh wait... using inputlirc apparently a lircd.conf file can still apply

[10:26:47]

ciphergoth:

here's the paste by the way. As I say only the up and down buttons are properly configured: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115381

[10:27:17]

ciphergoth:

but an lircd.conf file takes effect before the events arrive at the socket, right?

[10:27:35]

justinh:

I don't know

[10:27:35]

ciphergoth:

So what configures what sockets mythfrontend listens to?

[10:27:55]

justinh:

mythfrontend is just a lirc client which listens to a lirc style daemon

[10:28:06]

justinh:

so it shouldn't matter if you use inputlircd or lircd

[10:28:07]

ciphergoth:

yes that makes sense

[10:28:12]

ciphergoth:

that's what I thoguht

[10:28:17]

justinh:

like irw does

[10:28:30]

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[10:28:30]

ciphergoth:

except that inputlircd by default writes to a different socket than lircd – I fixed it so it writes to the same place

[10:28:35]

justinh:

so when you press UP does it report you pressed KEY_CHANNELUP ?

[10:28:38]

ciphergoth:

yes

[10:28:51]

justinh:

that should work

[10:28:53]

ciphergoth:

192 0 KEY_CHANNELUP irremote

[10:28:57]

ciphergoth:

mmm

[10:29:06]

ciphergoth:

so I'm wondering if mythfrontend is listening in the right place

[10:29:12]

justinh:

you can't configure it

[10:29:18]

ciphergoth:

wow

[10:29:20]

bjd:

i thought it was X that listens

[10:29:30]

bjd:

</ignorant>

[10:29:43]

justinh:

mythfrontend is the lirc client, not X

[10:29:49]

ciphergoth:

at this stage I'm seriously thinking of siccing strace on it to see where it listens

[10:30:08]

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[10:30:19]

justinh:

ciphergoth: it's set up to listen to an ordinary vanilla generic lircd

[10:30:22]

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[10:30:55]

ciphergoth:

which on my system writes to where irw listens to by default: /var/run/lirc/lircd.

[10:32:30]

ciphergoth:

huh

[10:32:35]

ciphergoth:

well strace answered that one

[10:32:52]

ciphergoth:

it listens to /dev/lircd

[10:33:01]

ciphergoth:

you say it can't be configured?

[10:33:51]

justinh:

yes it can't be reconfigured

[10:35:10]

ciphergoth:

thankfully inputlirc can

[10:35:11]

justinh:

oh wait

[10:35:12]

ciphergoth:

and now IT WORKS!

[10:35:19]

ciphergoth:

thanks for your patience

[10:35:24]

justinh:

there's a setting called LircSocket

[10:35:39]

justinh:

which is /var/run/lirc/lircd by default

[10:35:47]

justinh:

interesting. I didn't know that

[10:36:05]

ciphergoth:

well it's not trying to open that socket

[10:36:57]

ciphergoth:

hmm, it stats /home/mythtv/.mythtv/lircrc but doesn't try to open it

[10:37:06]

justinh:

yeah the setting is in mythfrontend utils/setup > setup > gemeral .. on the last page

[10:37:21]

ciphergoth:

hmm

[10:37:21]

justinh:

ciphergoth: it looks there and ~/.lircrc

[10:37:38]

ciphergoth:

actually it must open it because up and down work now

[10:37:44]

ciphergoth:

right now to fix the rest :-)

[10:38:02]

justinh:

"LIRC daemon socket: /var/run/lirc/lircd" on the setting page. heheh I never realised

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ciphergoth:

yep and changing that setting works – am once again using /var/run/lirc/lircd

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[11:23:54]

justinh:

what do . and , do in mythtv anyway?

[11:24:58]

justinh:

ahh. meh

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[12:10:53]

neztiti:

guys i have 2 ubuntu installed on my pc – one i have mythtv works fine the other i cant scan for channels – how i can import the channels from the first ubuntu ??

[12:13:54]

neztiti:

or where i can found mythtv channels table

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[12:24:37]

k-man:

what is the difference between a callsing and a name in the channel table?

[12:26:26]

neztiti:

no one can help guys??

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[12:38:46]

tank-man:

neztiti, why not try to get channel scanning to work instead of trying to import stuff

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[15:01:52]

wagnerrp:

TheSHADOW: the old ATV is a cheap, underpowered system, barely capable of HD playback, and with too little memory to be of any real use

[15:02:00]

wagnerrp:

the new ATV is even more limited than the old one

[15:02:10]

TheSHAD0W:

Thanks wagnerrp.

[15:02:51]

wagnerrp:

basically, it has as much power as the recommended mythtv box when mythtv was first released in 2002

[15:03:05]

wagnerrp:

now, its a joke

[15:03:11]

TheSHAD0W:

Well...

[15:03:24]

wagnerrp:

theres no 'well'

[15:03:43]

wagnerrp:

the only reason its capable of any sort of playback is because of some hardware DSP that apple uses for their own decoding routines

[15:03:48]

TheSHAD0W:

I did hear that myth frontend could do playback in 1080i, using hardware acceleration that the appletv couldn't access...

[15:03:50]

wagnerrp:

something we do not have access to

[15:04:06]

TheSHAD0W:

Isn't it an nvidia chipset?

[15:04:14]

wagnerrp:

are you talking about the old or new?

[15:04:17]

TheSHAD0W:

New.

[15:04:25]

iamlindoro:

Then no, it's not

[15:04:34]

wagnerrp:

the new is an A4, which some custom DSP used for video decoding

[15:04:41]

TheSHAD0W:

Okay.

[15:04:43]

TheSHAD0W:

Hm.

[15:04:46]

wagnerrp:

a 1GHz ARM architecture chip

[15:04:57]

wagnerrp:

thats not going to get you much more than standard definition mpeg2

[15:05:04]

wagnerrp:

you could probably do DVD playback, and thats about it

[15:05:16]

TheSHAD0W:

So the old one was the one that could do 1080i?

[15:05:31]

wagnerrp:

the old one had a 1GHz P3 derivative

[15:05:35]

wagnerrp:

with an nvidia 7300

[15:05:39]

TheSHAD0W:

Ahh.

[15:05:42]

wagnerrp:

so you could use XvMC for a bit of a boost

[15:05:52]

TheSHAD0W:

Okay, I understand now.

[15:05:54]

wagnerrp:

but even still, youre going to struggle on high bitrate ATSC content

[15:06:04]

wagnerrp:

and anything mpeg4 is out of the question

[15:06:23]

wagnerrp:

and even then, you only have 256MB of memory, which isnt really enough to run an HD frontend

[15:06:28]

wagnerrp:

mythtv wants more

[15:07:11]

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[15:07:21]

iamlindoro:

add to that any attempt to run the backend and... tears ensue

[15:07:27]

wagnerrp:

the only saving grace of the original ATV is that it had a mini-pcie slot, which you could install a crystalhd card into

[15:07:28]

TheSHAD0W:

Heh.

[15:07:53]

wagnerrp:

you offload all your decoding to the CHD card, and you use the opengl or xv renderer

[15:08:05]

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[15:08:13]

wagnerrp:

so instead of being limited by the poor cpu, youre not limited to whatever the CHD card can handle

[15:08:17]

wagnerrp:

now

[15:08:40]

wagnerrp:

but even then, the UI is going to choke on 256MB of memory when using a graphically intense theme

[15:09:46]

TheSHAD0W:

Well...

[15:10:09]

TheSHAD0W:

I'd like to have a thin box capable of running the full MythTV. Any suggestions?

[15:10:09]

wagnerrp:

well... the frontend, and for that matter modern linux distros, arent designed to run on such little memory

[15:10:43]

wagnerrp:

the current mac minis are about the same size as the original ATV, and run mythtv great... if perhaps being limited to external storage and tuners

[15:10:49]

wagnerrp:

the only drawback is the price

[15:10:57]

** TheSHAD0W nods **

[15:10:59]

TheSHAD0W:

Boy howdy.

[15:11:21]

wagnerrp:

then youve got various ION systems which work well enough as a frontend, but are not recommended for use as a backend

[15:11:47]

wagnerrp:

or you can build your own Mini-ITX system with a socket am3/775/1156 processor

[15:12:29]

wagnerrp:

if you want a slim system, you really dont want to be running the full system in one box

[15:12:53]

wagnerrp:

get a big tower, shove it in a closet or basement, and throw in a bunch of hard drives and tuner cards

[15:13:02]

TheSHAD0W:

Meh.

[15:13:03]

wagnerrp:

then use your slim mini-itx systems next to the tv

[15:13:32]

wagnerrp:

or... cut holes in walls or floors and run video/audio/usb directly to your tv from the big box hidden in the basement

[15:14:48]

TheSHAD0W:

Double-meh.

[15:15:37]

AndyCap:

I'm sure you can get something quiet, powerful and perversly expensive from atech-fabrication. :P

[15:17:13]

wagnerrp:

TheSHAD0W: quiet, powerful, cheap... pick two

[15:17:44]

wagnerrp:

s/quiet/small/

[15:18:12]

AndyCap:

which reminds me, I should move the backend to the storage server case, and find a new case for the storage.

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[16:16:55]

waza-ari:

Hey all, since an update yesterday the Video Covers are not shown anymore. in the videodatabase there is the filename specified and the path /var/lib/mythtv/coverart is also set correctly. In this directory there are the files. Why aren't they displayed? Can any log help?

[16:16:55]

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[16:25:04]

wagnerrp:

did you migrate to using storage groups?

[16:26:35]

wagnerrp:

give me a 'select filename,host,fanart from videometadata where title="<one of the videos that doesnt work>";'

[16:27:29]

wagnerrp:

waza-ari: ^^^

[16:28:48]

m4xx:

i'm trying to connect my mac mythfontend to my mythtv server, when i set the mysql info it says "cannot" and has an OK button. I'm sure i have the correct host, userame and password. i tested it with navicat with out a problem

[16:30:36]

wagnerrp:

navicat?

[16:30:55]

sphery:

make sure the host can ping the database host (with the ping command) or set the checkbox to tell it not to ping test server

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[16:32:08]

waza-ari:

wagnerrp: Sorry, one moment :)

[16:33:02]

waza-ari:

wagnerrp: No, im not using storagegroup, they are stored on local filesystem. Result is:

[16:33:11]

m4xx:

sorry, i'm a dumb ass. apparently mythconverg does not have an "e" at the end ;[

[16:33:37]

wagnerrp:

it happens

[16:34:20]

m4xx:

bah, i've got no luck. now it just exits after loading

[16:34:38]

waza-ari:

wagnerrp: filename is correct path to video, host is empty, and fanart="348_fanart.jpg"

[16:35:35]

wagnerrp:

waza-ari: if host is populated, filename and fanart will be relative paths to the root of the storagegroup folder

[16:35:50]

wagnerrp:

if host is not populated, filename and fanart will be a full path starting with '/'

[16:36:08]

wagnerrp:

you have a local path to the fanart where you should have absolute

[16:36:28]

waza-ari:

hm... i did not change anything in database...

[16:36:41]

wagnerrp:

you used some external grabber than messed things up

[16:36:50]

wagnerrp:

or you were formerly using storage groups, and migrated to local access

[16:37:10]

waza-ari:

no. I just used the internal grabber, and i changed nothing at this settings. I were never using Storagegroups...

[16:37:18]

waza-ari:

I just gave the videos a category

[16:37:49]

waza-ari:

Okay, so, what to change? Do i really have to change all the paths in Database?

[16:38:34]

wagnerrp:

i could be wrong about that

[16:38:43]

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[16:38:52]

wagnerrp:

ive been avoiding local access in mythvideo since before 0.22 was released

[16:39:09]

waza-ari:

yeah, it helps setting absoulte paths...

[16:39:21]

waza-ari:

But im somehow wondering, what has changed anyway...

[16:40:01]

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[16:43:48]

waza-ari:

hm. I just restored a recent database update, there are indeed full paths... strange, i dunno what messed this up..

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[16:55:06]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, no, everything you have said has been correct

[16:55:15]

iamlindoro:

he *has* used an external tool that fouled things up

[16:55:34]

iamlindoro:

Specifically, let me employ my awesome mental powers

[16:55:38]

iamlindoro:

a) he's running MythBuntu

[16:55:52]

iamlindoro:

b) he removed the video storage group but not the artwork ones

[16:56:09]

iamlindoro:

c) he is not running up to date fixes

[16:56:18]

iamlindoro:

d) Jamu is being run via cron

[16:56:39]

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[16:59:49]

rhpot1991:

anyone have an imon mce device (ffdc) working with /dev/input in lirc 0.8.7?

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[17:43:51]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I thought it was a very logical argument... The one window manager I've tried doesn't support full-screen applications. Ergo, no window managers support full-screen applications. Thus, the only remedy is to not use any window managers and have windows appear in the wrong places/z-order.

[17:44:45]

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[17:47:06]

BLZbubba:

are there any iphone based universal remotes that do a decent job with mythtv?

[17:47:18]

BLZbubba:

i suppose i should just get a harmony one

[17:51:37]

Azelphur:

android has mythmote

[17:51:40]

Azelphur:

works great :D

[17:52:07]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Telnet_socket#Used_By

[17:54:48]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you mean there are window managers besides gnome and kde?

[17:55:29]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i think the other mike is giving mikes a bad name, you should do something about that

[17:55:44]

sphery:

wagnerrp: lol... and I love the inclusion of GNOME and KDE in the realm of WMs :)

[17:55:58]

sphery:

other Mike?

[17:56:03]

wagnerrp:

the grounded one

[17:56:58]

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[17:57:17]

sphery:

ahh

[17:57:36]

sphery:

yeah, I've been avoiding those threads

[17:58:39]

wagnerrp:

not only does every thread he is involved in go on for far FAR FAAAARRR longer than it should

[17:58:47]

wagnerrp:

now his clock is set 12hrs behind

[18:00:27]

sphery:

heh

[18:01:23]

sphery:

maybe he's dual booting Windows XP in Fiji?

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[18:41:48]

Beirdo:

I didn't even know there WAS a Law & Order UK

[18:42:23]

Beirdo:

_blah_ :)

[18:42:37]

Beirdo:

hey, it worked

[18:45:21]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: sure, but they all wear wigs

[18:45:31]

Beirdo:

not yet :)

[18:45:40]

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[18:45:44]

Beirdo:

I recorded it off BBC America, BTW

[18:45:46]

justinh:

youmustbethistall? W T H ? :-O

[18:46:06]

wagnerrp:

justinh: its a 'password' that ubuntu users must type in before they can use trunk

[18:46:15]

wagnerrp:

just another level of 'are you sure you really want to do this'

[18:46:18]

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[18:46:33]

justinh:

hahahaha

[18:46:42]

Beirdo:

"youmustbefriggingkiddingme"

[18:47:25]

wagnerrp:

its supposed to stem the tide of ubuntu users who have no idea what theyre doing, but getting themselves into trouble because 'im a leet linux user, i can run developmental software'

[18:48:00]

Beirdo:

yeah

[18:48:17]

Beirdo:

makes sense.. at least put a hurdle there so they have to intentionally do it

[18:48:19]

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[18:49:04]

Beirdo:

after all, they ARE getting on a roller coaster

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[19:04:29]

justinh:

that's gotta be a classic :)

[19:05:32]

justinh:

good idea though, IMHO

[19:06:27]

wagnerrp:

ive never had focus issues when running without a window manager, so obviously they must not exist

[19:07:22]

justinh:

maybe you've never launched an external player – or ran a script which automagically created zillions of menu xml files containing links to trailers

[19:07:28]

justinh:

;)

[19:07:38]

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[19:07:59]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010 . . . /299351.html

[19:08:12]

justinh:

spent a while trying to get to the crux of my occasional failed recordings today – not much doing. think my tuners might be going bad

[19:09:22]

Beirdo:

growing some taste?

[19:09:37]

wagnerrp:

taste?

[19:09:51]

Beirdo:

yeah, they won't record crap anymore?

[19:10:28]

justinh:

heh seems to be ITV where the recordings fail. it's either the tuners or the transmission itself

[19:11:03]

justinh:

got a few more tricks to try but I'm not gonna sweat about it

[19:11:24]

gbee:

Beirdo: L&O UK is awful

[19:11:28]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: theres another bad one... 4 bad, 13 good

[19:11:34]

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[19:11:38]

wagnerrp:

all WB

[19:12:25]

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[19:12:56]

Beirdo:

gbee: yah well, so are the US ones :)

[19:13:18]

gbee:

Beirdo: true :)

[19:14:53]

gbee:

wagnerrp: to be fair, the focus issues were diminished once the native lirc client was added, MythTV no longer requires focus to receive lirc events, that was different back in the irevent days

[19:15:31]

wagnerrp:

gbee: sure, but when calling external programs, with the need of keyboard and mouse, you /will/ have problems

[19:15:43]

gbee:

agreed

[19:16:08]

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[19:16:37]

wagnerrp:

and the whole point of this was a kitchen computer, with keyboard and mouse, running other programs in addition to mythtv

[19:17:01]

gbee:

heh, yeah well in that case a window manager is a must

[19:17:08]

Beirdo:

gotta love the wigs

[19:17:18]

gbee:

Beirdo: classy

[19:17:21]

Beirdo:

ratpoison FTW, BTW

[19:17:42]

Beirdo:

I don't understand why they STILL use wigs :)

[19:20:10]

justinh:

Beirdo: male pattern baldness :P

[19:20:14]

gbee:

just tradition

[19:20:40]

gbee:

the USA being a new country doesn't have much of that I suppose

[19:20:56]

Beirdo:

yeah, well... with the Queen being a taxpayer... you'd think that the wig tradition can be changed too

[19:20:58]

gbee:

I believe they still wear wigs in Canada

[19:21:05]

Beirdo:

no they don't

[19:21:30]

justinh:

plus it helps reflect the reality of the situation. judges & co aren't apparently that in touch with you & me ;)

[19:21:35]

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[19:22:58]

Beirdo:

there is that

[19:24:06]

gbee:

Beirdo: ah, ok, I guess that's changed since the episode of Boston Legal I watched the other day was filmed :)

[19:25:03]

Beirdo:

Oh, so you think an *American* TV show is an accurate representation of Canadian courts?

[19:25:45]

wagnerrp:

absolutely

[19:25:53]

Beirdo:

heck, many US shows still insist on putting the RCMP in their red dress uniform...

[19:26:07]

iamlindoro:

Canadian Supreme Court dresses up as Santa, and that's a fact

[19:26:08]

Beirdo:

which is only used very occasionally and only for show

[19:26:10]

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[19:26:50]

iamlindoro:

http://abovethelaw.com/_old/images/entries/ca . . . hristmas.jpg

[19:26:52]

iamlindoro:

Ho ho ho

[19:27:13]

justinh:

rofl

[19:27:24]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:27:29]

justinh:

the guy who sends somebody down for 20 years.. is Santa. :-D

[19:27:30]

knightr:

Judges around the world: http://www.filibustercartoons.com/judges.htm

[19:28:00]

wagnerrp:

is that a table doily?

[19:28:12]

Beirdo:

The Supreme Court isn't involved with putting people in jail

[19:28:24]

Beirdo:

it's used much like the US Supreme Court

[19:28:27]

gbee:

one explanation I've heard is that the white wig harks back to a time when judges and advocates were always the elders of society, those most respected and supposedly possessing the wisdom of age, many of them would naturally have grey/white hair and thus as judges/barristers became younger they adopted the wigs so as to appear older and more wise than their years

[19:29:01]

Beirdo:

gbee: if only they would actually *be* wiser :)

[19:29:17]

Beirdo:

that's a reasonable explanation of the tradition though

[19:29:17]

gbee:

aye :(

[19:29:18]

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[19:29:36]

justinh:

you have to admit our judges definitely look the most gimpish & out of touch

[19:29:48]

Beirdo:

hehe, quite so

[19:30:25]

justinh:

yay for judges!

[19:30:40]

Beirdo:

and yay for liars...er lawyers

[19:30:42]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, I went to the same "therefore they must not exist" place as you :)

[19:31:06]

wagnerrp:

i dont get the medals and jewelry some of these are wearing

[19:31:33]

wagnerrp:

oh yeah, you sentenced him hard, that deserves a medal

[19:31:40]

sphery:

(regarding the running without wm post)

[19:33:18]

gbee:

I suppose if you're going to question the wigs, you might also question why judges wear robes, or why they use a gavel, or why they sit higher than everyone else (outside the public galleries)

[19:33:51]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:34:08]

Beirdo:

well, that's less... silly

[19:34:10]

wagnerrp:

gbee: apparently greek and scandinavian just wear normal suits

[19:37:13]

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[19:37:26]

Beirdo:

anywho... I'm gonna go eat

[19:37:33]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: got any suggestions for HDDVD subtitles?

[19:39:23]

wagnerrp:

the only movies i have where i want subtitles, i also have on dvd

[19:39:37]

sphery:

So, anyone know where the term "subtitle" as used in the context of captions comes from? I've always wondered.

[19:39:39]

wagnerrp:

so right now, im considering just pulling them off the matching dvds

[19:39:55]

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[19:41:36]

gbee:

Beirdo: well it's silly now, just as Afros and bell-bottoms are silly now, that doesn't mean they will always be out of fashion, almost everything (clothes, activities, words, etc) passes in and out of fashion, if something was dropped whenever it was no longer fashionable I don't suppose that we'd have any traditions at all

[19:41:38]

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[19:42:27]

wagnerrp:

ah, seems eac3to can rip out subtitles and chapters

[19:45:41]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, Last I tried HD-DVD subtitles worked fine in Myth

[19:45:44]

iamlindoro:

*but*

[19:45:57]

iamlindoro:

they only appeared in the menu when there was *actually* a subtitle that should be onscreen

[19:46:12]

iamlindoro:

(possibly a shortcoming of the MPEG PS demuxer)

[19:46:22]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: is that with the direct evos?

[19:46:25]

iamlindoro:

yes

[19:47:13]

wagnerrp:

ah, i had been remuxing them

[19:48:01]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, Just checked and foudn taht they still work the way I described above (imn EVOB)

[19:48:03]

iamlindoro:

er in

[19:48:33]

wagnerrp:

i guess ill just do that then

[19:48:35]

wagnerrp:

thenks

[19:48:40]

iamlindoro:

np

[19:48:41]

wagnerrp:

a

[19:49:38]

iamlindoro:

I'm watching Ron Burgundy insult Audrey for her bush league behavior, visually

[19:50:26]

wagnerrp:

gbee: getting a bit overzealous with your changes there

[19:51:32]

gbee:

hmm?

[19:51:49]

wagnerrp:

fixing grabber on the raw output of a metadata file

[19:51:50]

wagnerrp:

:P

[19:52:36]

gbee:

ah, heh

[19:52:39]

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[19:54:54]

gbee:

well I'll submit a letter detailing the corrections to Mr. Taio Cruz esq. and Mr. Ludacris esq. forthwith, I'm sure they will be only too happy to correct the spelling and punctuation of their lyrics

[19:56:49]

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[19:57:24]

iamlindoro:

FWIW the lyrics are cut and pasted from another source, I wouldn't have made said mistakes ;)

[19:58:03]

iamlindoro:

It's probably not appropriate for me to have a music example there since Paul hasn't committed to using the format or classes in MythMusic

[19:58:19]

iamlindoro:

I'd feel guilty if someone wrote a music grabber script and then it never got used

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neztiti:

guys i have 2 ubuntu installed on my pc – one i have mythtv works fine the other i cant scan for channels – how i can import the channels from the first ubuntu ??

[20:44:02]

iamlindoro:

You don't-- you figure out why you can't scan on your second install, fix it, and scan

[20:44:59]

iamlindoro:

channels and lineups are too tightly bound to the method and order in which the myth install as a whole is set up to just dump a table and reimport it elsewhere

[20:45:47]

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neztiti:

iamlindoro: i tried and tried without succeed

[20:49:09]

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[20:49:26]

iamlindoro:

You need to keep trying then-- even if you could move the channels over, which you can't, if you are unable to scan, you'll be unable to watch them too

[20:49:30]

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[20:52:49]

neztiti:

iamlindoro: i have another pc core2quad with ss2 card and i cant scan for channels too – the first pc of the 2 ubuntu has twinhan 1020A card and works fine with vdr and kaffeine – but i like mythtv and i need it

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[21:21:24]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: python bindings.... naughty :)

[21:22:00]

wagnerrp:

?

[21:22:00]

Beirdo:

if I set prefix to other than /usr/local, it modifies static.py (which is in SVN), and subsequently svn says it's modified

[21:22:23]

Beirdo:

i.e. it's going to get checked in inadvertantly at some point

[21:22:28]

wagnerrp:

got a better suggestion? move it to another file?

[21:22:41]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[21:23:01]

wagnerrp:

when you 'build' them you copy them to a build directory to work on them

[21:23:08]

Beirdo:

something like a config.py that isn't checked in?

[21:23:09]

wagnerrp:

i could rig it do it edits it there instead

[21:23:17]

Beirdo:

and is included? I dunno

[21:23:34]

Beirdo:

I just foresee this causing messy commits by mistake later :)

[21:24:27]

wagnerrp:

yeah, ill change it to use the version in ./build/lib/python/ later tonight

[21:24:50]

Beirdo:

cool. This stuff always gets messy, doesn't it?

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[21:49:55]

Mudboy:

Wondering if you guys can help me find the right word to describe a problem I'm having... I've watching the football game on CBS (Chargers/Raiders) and in high motion situations, I'm seeing the horizontal lines that looks like the interlacing is off... is there a name for that?

[21:50:22]

Mudboy:

and by off, I mean, just a little out of sync

[21:52:17]

Wicked:

screen tearing?

[21:52:28]

Wicked:

err frame tearing

[21:52:36]

Mudboy:

fwiw, i'm using .23.1 on ubuntu lucid, with mythbox plugin for xbmc

[21:52:37]

bjd:

sounds like tearing

[21:53:03]

Wicked:

http://www.tweakguides.com/images/GGDSG_19.jpg

[21:53:05]

Wicked:

like that?

[21:53:17]

Beirdo:

sounds like you should go talk to xbmc

[21:53:21]

Mudboy:

nope, this is every line

[21:54:25]

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[21:57:52]

Mudboy:

http://i.imgur.com/5Hi3z.jpg

[21:58:13]

sphery:

you need to enable deinterlacing

[21:58:26]

Wicked:

yea.

[21:58:49]

iamlindoro:

deinterlacing in XBMC, that is

[21:58:50]

sphery:

and, yeah, talk to the xbmc guys, since that's all in the player

[21:58:51]

tgm4883:

yep

[21:58:53]

iamlindoro:

meaning you should speak to them

[21:59:16]

Mudboy:

cool, thanks

[21:59:18]

bjd:

and watch real football :p

[21:59:19]

sphery:

or--and this is a wild /and/ crazy idea--maybe use a mythfrontend

[21:59:41]

Mudboy:

i'm just watching to hope the raiders lose

[21:59:46]

sphery:

and, fwiw, someone on the lists claimed that effect is known as "mouseteeth"

[21:59:57]

sphery:

I had never heard that before in my life--but I'm not in the industry

[22:00:04]

Wicked:

for what its worth...if you bring up the on screen menu...its the video options...interlace handling...i set it to auto

[22:00:22]

Beirdo:

I call it "interlacing"

[22:00:50]

Beirdo:

we don't support xbmc here, BTW

[22:00:52]

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[22:01:04]

** tgm4883 hmm **

[22:01:05]

tgm4883:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_teeth

[22:01:05]

sphery:

I call it nonexistent--on my properly-configured mythfrontend system

[22:01:14]

tgm4883:

i had never heard it called mouseteeth before either

[22:01:28]

sphery:

I have heard herringbone pattern used to describe it

[22:01:29]

tgm4883:

I think they made it up

[22:01:32]

Mudboy:

either way, thanks for the help

[22:01:37]

sphery:

mouse teeth sounds pretty strange to me

[22:01:37]

tgm4883:

and made a wiki page for it

[22:01:41]

Beirdo:

herringbone, I've heard

[22:01:45]

sphery:

especially since it looks nothing like teeth to me

[22:01:57]

sphery:

heh, yeah, that could be

[22:02:03]

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[22:02:12]

sphery:

(though the guy really did used to work in the TV broadcast industry)

[22:02:30]

tgm4883:

actually, there seems to be quite a few sites that reference it as mouseteeth

[22:02:31]

Beirdo:

as what? janitor?

[22:02:31]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/453776#453776

[22:02:42]

tgm4883:

if you do a google search for mouthteeth interlacing

[22:03:18]

tgm4883:

hmm

[22:03:23]

sphery:

I think the "sawtooth" that the op used to describe it in that thread makes more sense

[22:03:41]

tgm4883:

if thats the same beww guy on the ubuntu forums I'd like a mouse to sink some mouseteeth into him

[22:03:42]

sphery:

as saws purposefully have gaps (gullets) in their teeth to allow debris removal

[22:03:49]

sphery:

whereas, TTBOMK, mice don't

[22:04:10]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:04:18]

tgm4883:

plus, in that context he is incorrect IMO

[22:04:30]

sphery:

ok, maybe a bit... http://www.softdental.com/news/images/mouse_teeth.jpg

[22:04:36]

tgm4883:

you wouldn't refer to deinterlacing as mouseteeth

[22:04:37]

sphery:

but nothing that some braces couldn't fix

[22:04:51]

tgm4883:

which is what it seems he is trying to say deinterlace = mouseteeth

[22:04:55]

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[22:05:10]

tgm4883:

I would think he means that the lack of deinterlacing causes mouseteeth

[22:05:12]

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[22:05:52]

sphery:

yeah, the quoting and previous info in the thread didn't leave anything for which such a short reference would be appropriate

[22:06:06]

sphery:

so, I'm reading in to it what you said

[22:06:17]

tgm4883:

just stab that guy in the face and move on :)

[22:06:21]

sphery:

heh

[22:06:58]

Beirdo:

GDIAF. next!

[22:07:17]

sphery:

trying to remember how big a space grub needs before the first partition to write the mbr

[22:07:31]

Beirdo:

not a heck of a lot

[22:07:57]

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[22:08:00]

sphery:

if it's <56 512B sectors, then cfdisk -s 56 is a great way of doing 4kB sector size disks

[22:08:18]

sphery:

even when (like my new Samsung 2TB) the disk /lies/ and reports a 512kB physical sector size

[22:08:20]

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[22:08:21]

Beirdo:

not sure

[22:08:28]

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[22:08:28]

Beirdo:

try it :)

[22:08:37]

tgm4883:

mythfrontend -O Theme=terra

[22:08:39]

sphery:

yeah, let me put a boot dir in place and do that

[22:08:40]

tgm4883:

is that right?

[22:08:49]

sphery:

tgm4883: capital Terra

[22:08:53]

tgm4883:

ah

[22:08:59]

tgm4883:

thanks

[22:09:10]

Beirdo:

-O Theme=beer?

[22:09:11]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:09:41]

sphery:

while in current (don't remember if it's in 0.23-fixes) the setting name isn't case sensitive, the value is (at least when you have a file system that's case sensitive :)

[22:09:45]

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[22:10:35]

tgm4883:

yea seems to work with both

[22:11:16]

sphery:

I know jan nau changed it, but didn't remember when

[22:11:17]

tgm4883:

not sure why this is crashing a frontend though when set to mythbuntu theme

[22:11:40]

sphery:

(technically setting names were always case-insensitive, however, our override code used them in a way that made them case-sensitive)

[22:11:57]

iamlindoro:

So... wasn't ubuntu 10.10 supposed to ship with Qt 4.7?

[22:12:04]

sphery:

it didn't?

[22:12:09]

iamlindoro:

Just did an upgrade, and now I appear to be on 4.6.2

[22:12:26]

** tgm4883 looks **

[22:12:32]

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[22:12:46]

sphery:

maybe it's only for those who upgrade properly--with a reinstall :)

[22:12:54]

iamlindoro:

hah

[22:12:58]

[R]:

Version: 4:4.7.0–0ubuntu4

[22:13:33]

sphery:

I wonder if they updated it for the final release of 4.7 or if it's actually the rc that was out when they froze 10.10

[22:13:36]

iamlindoro:

It may say that on their package, but the headers and qmake still report 4.6

[22:13:58]

sphery:

maybe that's because it was the rc?

[22:14:11]

tgm4883:

4.7 is in the repos

[22:14:18]

tgm4883:

I can do a quick install and check it?

[22:14:23]

sphery:

just install Flash 10.1 or 10.2 and see if MythBrowser crashes on Flash pages :)

[22:14:25]

iamlindoro:

again, is that was the *package* says?

[22:14:31]

iamlindoro:

or what the actual code says?

[22:14:43]

iamlindoro:

because we know how Ubuntu version numbers are very trustworthy ;)

[22:14:46]

tgm4883:

well package, which is why I said I can do a quick fresh install and check if you like

[22:15:02]

iamlindoro:

nah, you'd just see exactly what I'm seeing

[22:15:14]

tgm4883:

ok then

[22:15:23]

tgm4883:

i'm going to grab some coffee, let me know if you change your mind

[22:15:23]

sphery:

So, does Ubuntu 10.10 Netbook Edition work the same as Windows 7's netbook edition?

[22:15:35]

sphery:

Like, it prevents you from changing the desktop wallpaper?

[22:15:58]

tgm4883:

sphery, you should be able to change it, i'm doing an install of that later

[22:16:03]

sphery:

heh

[22:16:21]

sphery:

I still can't believe MS made it so you can't do that on Win 7 for netbooks

[22:16:57]

sphery:

Windows 7 Starter, it seems (official name of it)

[22:17:05]

sid3windr:

uh

[22:17:10]

sid3windr:

that's not "for netbooks" in any way

[22:17:20]

sphery:

it's what's on nearly all netbooks

[22:17:27]

sid3windr:

then they're cheapass netbooks

[22:17:31]

Beirdo:

Winblows...

[22:17:34]

sid3windr:

and completely useless

[22:17:45]

sid3windr:

starter edition was made to combat piracy in asian countries

[22:17:45]

sphery:

and the license forbids running it on certain classes of computers

[22:17:53]

sid3windr:

it costs like 5 dollarcents

[22:17:56]

sphery:

such that about the only thing to fit the hardware requirements is netbooks

[22:17:59]

sid3windr:

and can only run 3 programs at the same time :p

[22:18:13]

sid3windr:

I have never seen a netbook running it btw, they all have win 7 home over here ;)

[22:18:15]

sphery:

(and older ones at that--some newer ones are going beyond the hardware max)

[22:19:20]

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[22:20:02]

sphery:

max screen size 10.2", max RAM 1GB, max storage 250GB HDD or 64GB SSD, and only single-core CPUs running at 2GHz or lower frequency and with a TDP of 15W or less

[22:20:25]

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[22:20:29]

sphery:

which, to me, sounds a /lot/ like a "licensed only for netbooks" version of windows

[22:20:55]

Beirdo:

Windows 7 Frigging Useless Edition

[22:21:01]

sphery:

no joke

[22:21:31]

sphery:

and considering you typically pay at most $20-$30 for a Win 7 Home Premium on an OEM system purchase, ...

[22:22:07]

sphery:

but, hey, gotta protect sales by crippling the things people want

[22:22:19]

sphery:

so they have to buy things that they might not

[22:22:23]

sphery:

(too)

[22:22:29]

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[22:22:31]

Beirdo:

of course

[22:23:53]

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[22:24:18]

sphery:

anyway, way OT, ... sorry.

[22:25:30]

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[22:26:51]

Beirdo:

go fix a bug as pennance :)]

[22:26:55]

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[22:27:19]

sphery:

heh, I should

[22:27:37]

sphery:

just cleaning up a mess on my network, first

[22:31:01]

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[22:34:14]

tgm4883:

I think my netbook had win7 starter on it

[22:34:20]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: better?

[22:34:22]

tgm4883:

IDK, I erased it pretty quickly

[22:35:12]

Beirdo:

looks like it should be

[22:35:15]

Beirdo:

let me try

[22:37:02]

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Beirdo:

wagnerrp: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/VfCaD3qr

[22:53:04]

sphery:

Beirdo: So, it works (partition alignment, grub mbr, ...) I'm sold on the 56 sectors/track solution

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[23:04:12]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: did you try to run that program manually?

[23:04:22]

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[23:04:45]

TheAsp:

Is it possible to record from ALSA rather than OSS?

[23:04:49]

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[23:04:49]

TheAsp:

In 0.23...

[23:04:58]

Beirdo:

I'll try

[23:05:12]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: no... im asking if you did

[23:05:17]

Beirdo:

no

[23:05:26]

wagnerrp:

that should only work after youve run 'python setup.py build'

[23:05:32]

wagnerrp:

which should be the command run directly before

[23:05:39]

wagnerrp:

what is in your ./build/lib directory?

[23:06:15]

Beirdo:

build/lib.linux-x86_64–2.6/

[23:06:22]

Beirdo:

has MythTV

[23:07:14]

Beirdo:

and under that, a pile of bindings files, what in particular should I look for?

[23:07:45]

wagnerrp:

why cant y'all just use /usr/local like me...

[23:08:00]

Beirdo:

because I have many different versions installed

[23:08:32]

Beirdo:

development has that effect

[23:08:45]

wagnerrp:

its lib.blahblah?

[23:08:48]

wagnerrp:

not lib/blahblah?

[23:09:25]

Beirdo:

I cut/pasted it

[23:09:27]

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[23:14:12]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: another way to fix it...

[23:14:27]

Beirdo:

rename it to static.py.in (the one checked in)

[23:14:40]

Beirdo:

read from that, write to static.py

[23:14:50]

Beirdo:

then the one checked in doesn't change

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[23:21:06]

wagnerrp:

what about now?

[23:21:48]

wagnerrp:

now it just finds one 'static.py' in the build path, and fixes it

[23:22:13]

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[23:23:09]

Beirdo:

tryin it

[23:25:32]

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[23:26:25]

Beirdo:

looks better :)

[23:26:38]

Beirdo:

no error, no modified file

[23:29:16]

Beirdo:

"Amazing Race" should be called "Amazing Waste"

[23:31:50]

wagnerrp:

why are you watching reality tv?

[23:32:16]

wagnerrp:

s/reality/unreality/

[23:32:32]

wagnerrp:

s/unreality tv/crappy game shows/

[23:32:53]

Beirdo:

I'm not :)

[23:32:59]

** wagnerrp could have sworn we relegated those to late morning and early evening years ago **

[23:33:00]

Beirdo:

just responding to the ad

[23:36:06]

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[23:38:50]

Beirdo:

jpabq_: how would that changeset affect if we have tuned and there is no good signal?

[23:41:17]

jpabq:

Beirdo, Daniel says it has to work that way for Europe where stations are not "on air" 24h, and someone has a pre-roll defined. Say you have a 5 minute pre-roll, but the station is not "on air". If the channel-change is successful, rsRecording will be set, but the recording will not actually start until a good signal is detected (5 minutes later).

[23:41:31]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[23:41:49]

Beirdo:

I think this may give a rash of potential 0-byte recordings

[23:42:04]

Beirdo:

but I guess it's all something that needs rework later, etc

[23:42:32]

jpabq:

From what Daniel has told me, that is the way it has always worked, before I broke it with the channel-change thread stuff.

[23:42:42]

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[23:42:45]

Beirdo:

always "worked"

[23:42:50]

wagnerrp:

directories have inodes, just like files, right?

[23:42:59]

Beirdo:

we've had issues with 0-byte files forever

[23:43:05]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: I think so

[23:43:47]

Beirdo:

but if this makes things work in a more defined way... I guess we revisit it later?

[23:44:14]

jpabq:

How long do you wait for a good signal before deciding that it has failed? Maybe there is a way for it to automatically set a time-out on the signal monitor which matches the pre-roll + 1 minute?

[23:44:29]

Beirdo:

good question

[23:44:47]

Beirdo:

I would think that something like that could work well

[23:45:07]

Beirdo:

if nothing has been recorded 1 min into the real recording, chances are it's borked

[23:45:15]

Beirdo:

I would think

[23:45:28]

jpabq:

me too.

[23:46:47]

Beirdo:

all a big pile of fun

[23:47:04]

Beirdo:

sphery: I haven't seen a filldb crash since the 7th

[23:47:08]

jpabq:

Main reason Daniel wanted me to get that "fixed", was because the Scheduler will not "schedule" if there are any recording in the rsTuning state.

[23:47:18]

Beirdo:

ahhh

[23:47:23]

Beirdo:

makes sense

[23:47:52]

Beirdo:

seems like a case where a rework after 0.24 may be helpful

[23:48:05]

sphery:

Beirdo: becaues of patches or just timing/"luck"

[23:48:27]

Beirdo:

sphery: not really sure :)

[23:48:53]

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[23:49:03]

Beirdo:

I'll keep watching it though

[23:49:43]

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[23:50:05]

sphery:

well, if you come up with a nice patch that's a real fix for it, I'll be very happy

[23:50:47]

Beirdo:

yeah, it's one of those "never sure unless it fails again" things

[23:51:15]

Beirdo:

but I can see what my current patches do

[23:52:06]

Beirdo:

one of em... after DestroyMythDB(), I do m_database = NULL

[23:52:35]

Beirdo:

likewise with delete d with d=NULL in the MythCoreContext destructor

[23:53:09]

Beirdo:

those were the changes I made on the 7th, and it hasn't crapped since, but that can be coincidence

[23:54:01]

sphery:

cool

[23:54:43]

Beirdo:

http://www.beirdo.ca/git/mythtv/commit/?h=upnp-8801

[23:54:50]

Beirdo:

that's the patch I'm using right now

[23:54:59]

sphery:

m_database is kept in mythcorecontext?

[23:55:08]

sphery:

if so, sounds like that should get committed

[23:55:13]

Beirdo:

it is.

[23:55:45]

Beirdo:

take a look at that, if ya want

[23:56:00]

Beirdo:

I can commit it (with or without the debug message) if you want

[23:56:35]

sphery:

d is the mythcorecontextprivate, right?

[23:56:41]

Beirdo:

yes

[23:56:54]

sphery:

I'd say put both of those in there

[23:57:01]

Beirdo:

I don't think that should be the issue, but it can't hurt

[23:57:02]

sphery:

probably without the extra verbose

[23:57:07]

sphery:

or make the verbose a VB_DATABASE

[23:57:20]

Beirdo:

that can be done

[23:57:27]

sphery:

the last hunk is up to you

[23:57:35]

sphery:

it can't hurt, but probably won't help

[23:57:51]

sphery:

which is why I'm /very/ glad you came up with the other changes besides my useless one :)

[23:58:01]

sphery:

just please ref the ticket

[23:58:07]

sphery:

#7714

[23:58:07]

Beirdo:

Yeah, I think I'll change that around to just null it after delete

[23:58:09]

sphery:

and huge thanks

[23:58:19]

sphery:

if that fixes it, it will be awesome

[23:58:21]

Beirdo:

no prob

[23:58:25]

Beirdo:

I hope it does :)

[23:58:30]

Beirdo:

let me tweak this

[23:58:55]

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[23:58:58]

sphery:

the sleep works ok since it's very uncommon for a clearcache to come in right before shutdown, with the exception of the end of mfdb, but a real fix is much better

[23:59:53]

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[23:59:56]

sphery:

wow, if this fixes #7714, it's a good night, indeed

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