Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, October 4th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:29]

sphery:

heh

[00:01:35]

clever:

http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2714 some history on software/computer piracy, old stuff like the apple II

[00:03:05]

Beirdo:

and we needed that link why?

[00:03:35]

clever:

just thought it might be interesting

[00:08:20]

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[01:28:57]

pyther:

Hello

[01:29:52]

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[01:30:07]

pyther:

My volume is much lower in myth than other applications; I think recording volume might be to low, but I'm recording atsc content so I dunno how to increase it

[01:30:11]

pyther:

Any ideas suggestions?

[01:30:11]

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[01:30:22]

wagnerrp:

you cant increase ATSC volume

[01:30:47]

pyther:

is there I way I can have the frontend but a gain on it, so it sounds as loud as my other stuff

[01:30:54]

[R]:

lol, i replaced the coax cable going to my cable box, and my ondemand works

[01:31:02]

wagnerrp:

change the volume when you run it

[01:31:26]

pyther:

haha, but I forget to turn it back down and then when I do something else it scares the shit out of me

[01:31:27]

wagnerrp:

you can always run ALSA commands to increase the volume when you run mythfrontend

[01:31:34]

wagnerrp:

and lower it when you close

[01:31:49]

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[01:32:53]

pyther:

that isn't an ideal solution since I have my mixers already set to 100 :-/

[01:33:19]

wagnerrp:

then decrease the volume, and turn it up on your amplifier

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[02:12:02]

Beirdo:

"Maybe I was never in The Fugitive"

[02:12:03]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:12:13]

Beirdo:

Scrubs++

[02:18:52]

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[02:27:51]

Sickler:

yo guys, putting together an htpc on newegg just trying to think what kinda budget i should have for blu-ray, roms, dvd ripping, playing from .isos etc. looking for it to be snappy thats my primary concern.... ideas for cost range?

[02:28:41]

Sickler:

obviously using a mythtv distro over an windows os

[02:28:59]

wagnerrp:

not recording?

[02:30:01]

Sickler:

nah not to start, dont want to have to deal with video editing or hdcp, most of what i watch is replays in dvd form anyway. i figure it would be easier to manage a hdd instead of my dvds

[02:30:29]

Sickler:

and i say editing bc im not keen on commercials

[02:30:39]

Beirdo:

what does HDCP have to do with recording TV?

[02:30:51]

wagnerrp:

the cost of a mythtv system is the number and type of recorders, and the amount of storage space needed to house your content

[02:31:11]

wagnerrp:

beyond that, the cost of the rest of the system is fairly low and static

[02:31:45]

Sickler:

so there would be no huge diff in performance for single v dual v tri cores

[02:31:59]

wagnerrp:

for bluray and jobqueue, yes

[02:32:11]

wagnerrp:

bluray will do multi-threaded decoding

[02:32:17]

Sickler:

ah

[02:32:22]

wagnerrp:

and the jobqueue can run multiple tasks simultaneously

[02:32:30]

wagnerrp:

nearly everything else dealing with mythtv is single threaded

[02:33:06]

Sickler:

ah so would you rec the 30 bucks extra or a tri core over a dual core

[02:33:28]

wagnerrp:

almost no dual core will be capable of software decoding of bluray content

[02:33:37]

Sickler:

really

[02:33:45]

wagnerrp:

but you can always use VDPAU on an nvidia graphics card for that

[02:33:55]

Sickler:

shoot

[02:34:15]

Sickler:

i have a radeon 4650 in the build

[02:35:09]

wagnerrp:

no, if you are doing discrete video, you absolutely want nvidia

[02:35:23]

Sickler:

oh yea?

[02:35:23]

wagnerrp:

and if youre doing onboard video, nvidia is still preferred if you have an option

[02:35:48]

wagnerrp:

ATI just doesnt give good linux drivers

[02:35:59]

wagnerrp:

they have gotten significantly better

[02:36:10]

wagnerrp:

but not yet to the point they can be recommended

[02:36:27]

Sickler:

i was going to use a low profile card so itd fit in the case i picked, what would be the nvidia comparison to the 4650, its only 46 bucks too

[02:36:45]

wagnerrp:

they make low profile 210s and 220

[02:36:46]

wagnerrp:

s

[02:37:53]

Sickler:

hmmmm

[02:38:08]

Sickler:

this makes me have to redo my build then

[02:38:23]

Sickler:

is there any memory restrants for blu-ray

[02:38:51]

wagnerrp:

such as?

[02:39:04]

Sickler:

2 GB ok?

[02:39:12]

wagnerrp:

plenty

[02:39:21]

wagnerrp:

note that mythtv is designed to use a tuner

[02:39:38]

wagnerrp:

it will not work without a tuner (you at least need to define a dummy tuner)

[02:39:57]

Sickler:

thats what i had planned

[02:42:45]

Sickler:

do you have a htpc build with a distro or do you just use your regular computer and just use the program

[02:43:18]

wagnerrp:

i have three dedicated machines, and a third general server, that i use for mythtv

[02:43:27]

wagnerrp:

s/third/fourth/

[02:46:55]

Sickler:

i think i need to start from scratch, this build is 400 bucks and the last thing i wana do is invest that much cash for somthing that wont work

[02:57:34]

Sickler:

http://bit.ly/dsPla7 would this card support all of my 1080p needs

[03:00:58]

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[03:03:18]

wagnerrp:

is it an nvidia card?

[03:03:38]

Sickler:

yea

[03:03:46]

wagnerrp:

8-series or better?

[03:04:04]

Sickler:

GeForce GT 220 512MB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card

[03:04:21]

wagnerrp:

that card will handle all your VDPAU-supported 1080p needs

[03:04:38]

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[03:13:21]

Wicked:

hmm....if im going to reencode a mythtv record i recorded with my pvr-150 and im in the usa....should i deinterlace the video?

[03:14:43]

Beirdo:

usually

[03:15:12]

Beirdo:

if you plan on watching it on a TV, maybe not, but if on a computer monitor, usually

[03:15:30]

wagnerrp:

unless you intend to recompress it interlaced

[03:16:05]

Wicked:

well im trying to reencode a tv show of mine that i want to archive...and im curious if i should or shouldnt...i do use my computer monitor as a tv...

[03:16:27]

Wicked:

so i think i should loook into making avidemux deinterlace this

[03:17:11]

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[03:18:43]

[R]:

ffs

[03:18:47]

[R]:

i really hate the hdpvr

[03:19:24]

wagnerrp:

well until it gets cancelled, or a better solution comes along, it will do

[03:20:00]

Beirdo:

[R]: treat it well, it works quite well

[03:20:21]

** wagnerrp is waiting for someone to catch the reference... **

[03:20:37]

Wicked:

thanks for the info guys :)

[03:21:21]

** Beirdo is not in the mood for thinking today :) **

[03:23:07]

[R]:

Beirdo: i oepned up my case and screwed around inside of it... may have moved my usb pci card... took me like 3 reboots and usb port changes to get the hdpvr to be stabloe

[03:23:34]

Beirdo:

don't fix what ain't broke

[03:23:53]

[R]:

i was putting a new fan inther

[03:23:58]

[R]:

cuz i'm really worried abotu my cpu temps

[03:24:10]

Beirdo:

me too... 45C is soooo high :)

[03:24:10]

Beirdo:

hehe

[03:24:17]

[R]:

har har

[03:24:55]

Beirdo:

actually right now, it's saying 78C

[03:25:01]

Beirdo:

interesting

[03:25:25]

[R]:

lol

[03:27:08]

[R]:

does anyone here do netflix over the wii?

[03:33:57]

Beirdo:

down to 50C now

[03:34:12]

Beirdo:

just as soon as it's not 200% CPU

[03:34:32]

Beirdo:

I really need to get those graphs going

[03:34:40]

[R]:

i need to be running for a few hours before if i see if my fan works

[03:38:20]

Beirdo:

and down to 45.5C

[03:38:34]

[R]:

rush limbaugh is on family guy

[03:38:35]

[R]:

this is hilarious

[03:48:23]

wagnerrp:

family guy is no archer

[03:50:37]

[R]:

archer?

[03:50:45]

wagnerrp:

archer

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[04:22:16]

[R]:

awww

[04:22:21]

[R]:

this is why CEOs can't be women

[04:22:23]

[R]:

shes crying

[04:22:34]

wagnerrp:

?

[04:22:39]

[R]:

watching undercover boss

[04:22:59]

wagnerrp:

watching venture bros... far more worthwhile

[04:23:09]

[R]:

haha

[04:23:47]

wagnerrp:

hank is a PI

[04:23:51]

wagnerrp:

thats kind of like undercover

[04:28:51]

wylie:

anyone know if this little number has vdpau? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173005

[04:29:06]

[R]:

yes

[04:29:08]

[R]:

its ION

[04:29:13]

wylie:

"Next-Generation NVIDIA ION" — and if so, is it suitable for a frontend?

[04:29:29]

wagnerrp:

thats debatable, but yes

[04:29:49]

wylie:

poor?

[04:30:03]

wagnerrp:

you are limited to hardware decoding

[04:30:10]

wagnerrp:

so if that fails, you have nothing to fall back on

[04:31:56]

wylie:

but no issue playing hdpvr content?

[04:32:18]

wagnerrp:

should work fine

[04:33:11]

wylie:

tempting... been waiting a decade for this form factor and a reasonable price pt. getting there....

[04:33:53]

wagnerrp:

why that form factor?

[04:34:28]

wylie:

well, something small, general form factor, low power, not specific to this device form factor

[04:34:48]

wagnerrp:

all you have is a TV?

[04:35:01]

wagnerrp:

no receiver, no amplifier, no cd/dvd player?

[04:36:06]

wylie:

well no, but I have many large TVs in my home — some I like to just hit with the hdmi matrix switch — but one in particular, i'd like to slam a small box behind

[04:36:48]

wylie:

in the "media room", there is amplifier, sub, etc.... but i have most TV's on mythtv frontends or via switch

[04:37:48]

wagnerrp:

what im getting at is that if you have other A/V equipment, a small device like this is just going to look out of place, a rackmount system oddly looks /more/ subtle

[04:38:26]

wagnerrp:

if youre instead looking for something to stuff behind a tv, youve been able to get mini-itx and similar hardware for quite some time

[04:38:27]

wylie:

I agree completely

[04:38:44]

wagnerrp:

a mac mini is about the same size, a bit thicker, and works great

[04:38:52]

wagnerrp:

or you can build your own with similar specs

[04:39:04]

wylie:

ya, i have a mini, buts that's throwing 599+ at it

[04:39:53]

wylie:

i didn't realize you could throw a vdpau card in mini-itx

[04:39:58]

wylie:

*capable

[04:40:20]

[R]:

why woudln't you

[04:40:43]

wagnerrp:

you can pick up a mini-itx board, dual core amd proc, and case about the same size but maybe twice as thick for ~$200

[04:41:30]

wylie:

ya, but don't you pickup the even smaller form-factor for $239 on the zotac?

[04:41:45]

wagnerrp:

throw in a big flat aftermarket cooler, cut the top off the case, mount it properly, and you can probably do it fanless

[04:42:03]

wagnerrp:

as long as it can be stuffed behind the tv, who cares what it looks like or how big it is

[04:42:16]

[R]:

zotac is mini itx

[04:42:24]

wagnerrp:

and if you can get a system with a capable processor for the same price...

[04:42:41]

wylie:

ya, makes sense

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[05:01:41]

wagnerrp:

wylie: for a bit of a comparison... http://pastebin.com/7VxNW7R5

[05:02:08]

wagnerrp:

$60 more gets you a full system with proper processor

[05:02:32]

wagnerrp:

but you could eliminate that gap by using a cheaper case/powersupply, and no aftermarket heatsink

[05:03:13]

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[05:03:17]

wylie:

thanks for the link, i'll check it out

[05:09:07]

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[05:12:15]

wagnerrp:

or some other variations... http://pastebin.com/jMhC7yku

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Beirdo:

OMG, I really am going to miss Scrubs

[06:27:52]

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[06:28:27]

[R]:

looks like my new fan is working

[06:28:53]

[R]:

hard drives are cooler (albeit just a degree) and looks like my cpu is keeping cooler by about 5

[06:31:14]

Beirdo:

nice

[06:33:52]

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[06:33:54]

[R]:

i really wanted to put another fan

[06:34:09]

[R]:

but there wasn't enough room for my big one and the wire wasn't long enough form y small one

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[06:43:55]

Gumby:

hi all. In the mythconverg database how does the program.chanid column map to a channel? It doesnt seem to be the same as channel.chanid unless somehow my channels are all out of whack

[06:44:52]

[R]:

what do yhou mean "doesnt seem to be the same"

[06:44:54]

[R]:

of course its the same

[06:45:24]

Gumby:

hrm

[06:45:51]

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[06:48:51]

Gumby:

sorry, I was just confusing myself

[06:49:06]

wagnerrp:

were you thinking of channum perhaps?

[06:49:27]

wagnerrp:

chanid is really something for internal mythtv use only

[06:49:44]

Gumby:

no. I was trying to figure out why a program wasnt recording on a specfic date, and now I am even unsure what I had done wrong when trying to figure it out via sql queries

[06:50:32]

Gumby:

I think what might have been getting me was the same program on different channels at the same time

[06:50:40]

Gumby:

in regards to the sql query at least

[06:50:45]

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[06:52:25]

Gumby:

and my recording schedule was set to record on one input and not the other which threw me off also

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jk-:

hey all

[07:42:27]

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[07:44:35]

jk-:

I'm seeing some tearing – looks like a diagonal line of mismatched frames

[07:45:07]

jk-:

i assume this could be because the display is 60Hz, and I'm displaying 50Hz video?

[07:55:54]

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[08:01:10]

justinh:

could be

[08:01:55]

waxhead:

hey everyone

[08:02:40]

waxhead:

We've just ticked over with daylight savings, however all the recordings are out by an hour ( the OS is set to handle DST automatically )... any hints on where to start looking to correct the issue?

[08:02:58]

waxhead:

The schedule is updated using shepherd.pl

[08:03:13]

waxhead:

so it has a weeks worth of schedule data...

[08:03:34]

waxhead:

I'm wondering if there's some sort of odd offset setting in mythtv that I need to find?

[08:04:12]

[R]:

myth always gets screwy with dst

[08:04:19]

[R]:

just move somewhere that doesn't observe it

[08:04:39]

waxhead:

hahaha.. like THAT'S going to happen.. :)

[08:05:32]

[R]:

twice a year people complain

[08:05:40]

[R]:

and twice a year someone says "lets just convert myth to utc"

[08:05:42]

jk-:

since I can't change the display from 60Hz, is there anything else I can do?

[08:05:53]

[R]:

and twice a year the devs say they'll get to it but patches are welcome

[08:05:55]

justinh:

myth never gets screwy with DST

[08:06:13]

justinh:

never in all the time I've used it

[08:06:28]

[R]:

i dunno... i dont observe dst

[08:06:32]

[R]:

but i know people alwyas complain

[08:06:35]

justinh:

5+ years.. so that's what.. 10 clock changes

[08:07:06]

waxhead:

justinh, what timezone are you using?

[08:07:07]

justinh:

yeah but that's usually cos they've set the wrong TZ, or they don't set their time properly.. or I dunno... something else fundamental

[08:07:08]

waxhead:

GMT?

[08:07:09]

waxhead:

:)

[08:07:15]

justinh:

we have BST here too

[08:07:31]

justinh:

British Summer Time as they affectionately call it

[08:07:36]

waxhead:

hmm..TZ should be fine..

[08:08:08]

justinh:

I dunno why we still have DST anyway. it sucks

[08:08:23]

waxhead:

it's not too bad..

[08:08:30]

justinh:

jk-: what video hardware do you have?

[08:08:50]

justinh:

waxhead: yeah it is. it's a PITA changing all the clocks just cos some nonce says we have to

[08:09:26]

justinh:

it's for the farmers apparently. who gives a fig about farmers? don't they have lights on their tractors?!

[08:09:33]

jk-:

justinh: radeon 7500 (mobile M7), vga connection to a HDTV

[08:09:34]

justinh:

;-)

[08:09:54]

jk-:

cows'll fade :)

[08:11:10]

justinh:

jk-: try using opengl vsync

[08:11:32]

justinh:

if your ATI thing can do it, that is

[08:13:45]

justinh:

almost said 'junk' then I remembered not to be racist

[08:15:54]

waxhead:

it's for farmers?

[08:16:02]

waxhead:

hardly, it's about recreation time

[08:16:26]

waxhead:

farmers work to a schedule, like DST is going ot make a difference to them....

[08:16:34]

justinh:

the gov here doesn't make it clear about why we have DST

[08:16:44]

waxhead:

it's more about tourism and commerce...

[08:16:52]

justinh:

anyway.. MEH to DST

[08:16:53]

justinh:

bin it

[08:17:02]

waxhead:

the extra daylight at the end of the day is meant to encourage people to get out and about...

[08:17:10]

waxhead:

and it's also the cooler part of the day...

[08:17:26]

justinh:

can't people just go out an hour earlier instead?

[08:17:28]

justinh:

stupid people

[08:17:31]

waxhead:

when you have 35 degree days, it's nice having the cooler part of the day after work to do stuff

[08:17:46]

justinh:

change the time you DO stuff, not the TIME :-)

[08:18:03]

waxhead:

justinh, you're missing the point of the cooler part of hte day.

[08:18:12]

justinh:

er.. no I'm not

[08:18:29]

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[08:18:44]

justinh:

it'll still be cooler later in the day. you don't need to change the clocks to accomplish that

[08:18:46]

jk-:

justinh: that doesn't work at all :/

[08:18:54]

waxhead:

besides, it's even better when you live on the coast... an extra hour of surfing in daylight hours..

[08:19:15]

waxhead:

the point is you're home earlier with more light

[08:19:19]

justinh:

nah we need to stop changing the clocks. if you want more daylight, get up later/sooner

[08:22:25]

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[09:32:27]

deegan:

When doing a full scan if i chose both "Only free TV" and "try decryption" will that result in the list being populated with only channels that i have decryption for?

[09:35:10]

justinh:

eh?

[09:35:25]

justinh:

I'd have thought those settings were mutually exclusive

[09:39:53]

deegan:

So would i, but i get pretty many channels that are not decrypted when i chose just the "try decryption"

[09:40:24]

deegan:

did a full channel clear now and rescanning with both free and decrypt so i can see what that gives me.

[09:42:48]

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[09:55:11]

biomorph_:

Morning all.

[09:57:04]

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[09:58:59]

biomorph_:

I've just upgraded my Lenny box to Myth 0.23, but if I try to connect from an Ubuntu Lucid system also running 0.23 I get a protocol mismatch, it says backend is running 230056

[09:59:15]

biomorph_:

Ubuntu system running protocol 56

[09:59:26]

biomorph_:

Protocol 56 sounds much more sensible.

[10:04:18]

justinh:

heh

[10:04:21]

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[10:04:24]

justinh:

when 0.23 != 0.23

[10:04:32]

justinh:

because there was a protocol version change

[10:04:57]

justinh:

you need to ensure all your boxes run exactly the same version. as has always been the case

[10:05:07]

justinh:

and not version as in x.yy

[10:05:17]

justinh:

version as in mythbackend --version reporting the same numbers

[10:06:39]

biomorph_:

charles@charles-laptop:~/Downloads$ mythfrontend --version

[10:06:39]

biomorph_:

Please include all output in bug reports.

[10:06:39]

biomorph_:

MythTV Version : 24158

[10:06:39]

biomorph_:

MythTV Branch : branches/release-0-23-fixes

[10:06:39]

biomorph_:

Network Protocol : 56

[10:06:40]

biomorph_:

Library API : 0.23.20100314–1

[10:06:42]

biomorph_:

QT Version : 4.6.2

[10:06:46]

biomorph_:

Is the client.....

[10:07:33]

justinh:

please use a pastebin

[10:07:37]

biomorph_:

Oh – hold on..... Seems the backend is 0.23.1

[10:08:11]

biomorph_:

Damn...... sorry why didn't I see that.

[10:08:28]

biomorph_:

justinh: Sorry about not using pastebin.

[10:09:29]

deegan:

noticed the same thing just now. ubuntu uses the -fixes branch.

[10:09:34]

deegan:

that's wierd.

[10:10:44]

biomorph_:

OK – so now the question is where do I get 0.23.1 for Lucid? Or even Karmic.

[10:12:08]

biomorph_:

I love MythTV, but the one thing that gets me is having to keep the clients and server at exactly the same level.

[10:14:02]

justinh:

lucid / karmic .. they're all stupid names :)

[10:14:40]

justinh:

maybe you should consider using the mythbuntu repos instead of the ones which come as standard

[10:16:41]

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[10:29:02]

biomorph_:

justinh: 10.04 and 9.10.... So I would use the mythbubtu-repos.deb to get the mythbuntu repos?

[10:29:21]

justinh:

I dunno. I build from source

[10:30:15]

biomorph_:

Hehe..... Sensible move. I used to do that years ago around 0.17 on my Debian system, but recently it's been more stable.

[10:30:52]

justinh:

stability has nothing to do with whether you build from source or not

[10:31:20]

justinh:

I just don't like how the packages want to 'hold my hand' :-)

[10:32:09]

biomorph_:

You're correct, I don't mean stability.

[10:36:17]

biomorph_:

justinh: Thanks for the pointer. It seems the mythbuntu repos are good.

[10:52:59]

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[11:05:38]

k-man:

how do i quit mplaer using lirc, but not have it try and quit mythtv at the same time?

[11:05:44]

k-man:

mplayer

[11:18:42]

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[11:38:46]

justinh:

heheheh. don't use mplayer. internal ftw!

[11:38:57]

justinh:

you soon won't be able to use external players btw

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[12:39:41]

justinh:

Ooooo! PCIe dual tuner dvb-t thingy http://shop.blackgold.tv/epages/BT3159.sf/en_ . . . ucts/BGT3620

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justinh:

er dvb-t2 even

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[14:26:34]

i_is_cat:

anyone else getting a internal server error 500 from schedulesdirect when trying mythfilldatabase?

[14:26:37]

i_is_cat:

:/

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** wagnerrp doesnt understand why users have to post every single new ION system they come across to the mailing list **

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[15:45:54]

iamlindoro:

And every new uPnP device

[15:48:54]

wagnerrp:

well at least upnp is not universal, so there could be changes in behavior between different devices

[15:49:01]

wagnerrp:

but ION, theyre all exactly the same thing

[15:49:08]

wagnerrp:

just packaged differently

[15:49:41]

wagnerrp:

i think this Atom 330 + 9400M is /sooooo/ much better than that one

[15:49:44]

wagnerrp:

theres just no comparison

[15:54:42]

sphery:

are the new atom 2/pinetrail/pinesol (or whatever) ones out?

[15:54:57]

sphery:

aren't they different--and mostly unusable in *nix for video?

[15:55:35]

sphery:

"My Atom 2 cleans the floor with your Atom system..." (Pinesol reference :)

[15:55:44]

wagnerrp:

they also have the ION2s, which have a an Atom2 and a GT218m

[15:55:54]

sphery:

ah, yeah, that's what I'm thinking of

[15:56:00]

sphery:

GT218m is an Intel GPU?

[15:56:10]

sphery:

or contains one or something?

[15:56:24]

sphery:

or maybe nvidia...

[15:56:27]

wagnerrp:

no, nvidia chip, similar in capabilities to the GT210 desktop chip

[15:56:44]

sphery:

so basically, not unusable

[15:56:49]

sphery:

(even if not the best idea)

[15:56:52]

sphery:

darn

[15:57:03]

wagnerrp:

about equivalent to the original atom

[15:57:09]

wagnerrp:

in both CPU and GPU power

[15:57:23]

sphery:

and it looks like Intel is hobbling Sandy Bridge, too, so I'm sure people will try to use that (when they shouldn't)

[15:57:27]

wagnerrp:

you just get the ASP decoder, and improved scalers

[15:57:35]

sphery:

I see

[15:57:47]

wagnerrp:

but as far as shader performance for deinterlacing, its not significantly better than the original IONs

[15:58:56]

wagnerrp:

meet the new platform, same as the old platform

[15:59:27]

wagnerrp:

it gets lower power consumption, and thats about it

[16:00:36]

** wagnerrp dramatically puts on sunglasses **

[16:01:08]

sphery:

heh

[16:01:34]

sphery:

speaking of which, the season premiere of CSI: Miami got delayed about 10–15min, so I missed the end... Stupid football on CBS

[16:01:51]

wagnerrp:

isnt there a plugin for that?

[16:02:02]

sphery:

extends the football

[16:02:06]

sphery:

not the shows after

[16:02:10]

wagnerrp:

ah

[16:02:30]

sphery:

I'll just fix with my schedules--just a bit late for the premiere (which likely won't be repeated for a long time)

[16:02:40]

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[16:02:41]

wagnerrp:

i wonder if the EIT data ever gets updated in those circumstances?

[16:02:51]

sphery:

not by my local stations

[16:03:13]

sphery:

though the fact that some of them are running with clocks off by 10+min may have worked to my advantage in that situation :)

[16:03:45]

sphery:

(i.e. if you plug antenna into TV and show time and now/next, it shows previous show for 10min into the current show)

[16:04:40]

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[16:27:35]

jarle:

I seem to miss several hours of EIT data for some of my channels, is there some logic in mythtv that will skip looking for EIT data for a channel if it has already got x hours of EIT data for a channel for a specific day? Or should the empty "pockets" get filled automatically?

[16:31:53]

iamlindoro:

Love the guy who wants to use an 11 year old video card with 4 year old drivers for X11R6 (not Xorg) and can't figure out why it's not working, and uses the emotional blackmail tactic of "I won't use myth if I can't make it work with what I've got"

[16:31:59]

iamlindoro:

Sorry, you don't get to use Myth, then

[16:32:18]

sid3windr:

grin

[16:32:44]

GreyFoxx:

is that on the -users list ? :)

[16:32:48]

iamlindoro:

yep

[16:32:53]

iamlindoro:

[mythtv-users] Matrox Millennium G400 MAX

[16:33:00]

wagnerrp:

that guy has been an endless source of trouble

[16:34:28]

wagnerrp:

bet it was a GF2MX that he failed to get working

[16:34:46]

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[16:36:17]

iamlindoro:

Hahah

[16:36:34]

iamlindoro:

he claims he's already spent "hundreds" on myth, and specifically says he bought a new motherboard

[16:36:41]

iamlindoro:

But somehow can only use AGP?

[16:36:50]

iamlindoro:

He's either lying or a moron

[16:38:04]

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[16:38:19]

wagnerrp:

i remember someone i used to play TFC with back in '99 using a firewire capture box and a matrox G400 for a homebrew DVR, since that was about the old hardware he could get reliably working with video on slackware

[16:39:23]

iamlindoro:

I give up on this guy

[16:39:31]

wagnerrp:

he must have found a mailing list entry from 2003 about the G400 working well

[16:39:35]

iamlindoro:

"People told me it works!"

[16:39:52]

iamlindoro:

How do you spend "hundreds" and get a mobo with AGP?

[16:39:55]

Beirdo:

it does... if you only want SD, I bet.

[16:40:08]

iamlindoro:

unless he considers the hundreds he spent years ago on it, before he pulled it out of the garage

[16:40:09]

Beirdo:

it used to be the best choice at one point... 6 years back

[16:40:21]

Beirdo:

maybe 7 :)

[16:40:30]

iamlindoro:

board came out in 1999

[16:40:31]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: you can buy new motherboards with AGP, although you have to search them out and spend hundreds on them, as they are specialty parts

[16:40:50]

Beirdo:

if he can't at least get the menu up with a qt painter, he's too dumb to use mythtv anyways

[16:41:02]

iamlindoro:

The board works fine, he just wants TV out

[16:43:41]

sphery:

jarle: in the future, EIT will only run for some appropriate period during the day--rather than all the time

[16:43:48]

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[16:44:03]

sphery:

for now, though, you get what you're given

[16:45:17]

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[16:48:04]

sphery:

iamlindoro: actually, buying a mobo with AGP support would actually cost you more these days than a modern mobo (supply/demand :)

[16:48:17]

sphery:

not that there's a lot of demand, but there's virtually no supply

[16:48:41]

sphery:

though I think you're right about his exaggeration of what he spent

[16:51:36]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no, apparently he bought a completely new system, but then abandoned it in favor of his ancient hardware

[16:53:20]

sphery:

oh, that makes sense

[16:53:37]

sphery:

but the completely new system still counts toward the cost of MythTV

[16:54:01]

sphery:

besides, MythTV /is/ a luxury DVR, so if he wants free-of-cost, he should probably look elsewhere

[16:54:13]

iamlindoro:

This guy is more than clueless, he's a bit of a dick

[16:54:55]

wagnerrp:

how long has he been around the mailing list, and he has yet to get a functional mythtv system going?

[16:55:15]

wagnerrp:

over two months now

[16:55:55]

sphery:

iamlindoro: yay, you got your "luxury DVR" in :)

[16:56:01]

Beirdo:

hehe

[16:56:32]

Beirdo:

he bought a machine without specing Linux-compatible parts, it seems, so now wants to use the old crap from the basement

[16:56:35]

wagnerrp:

on his very first email, someone complained about his direct address being put in the 'To:' line by his mailer

[16:56:43]

wagnerrp:

people suggested he fix or replace his mailer

[16:56:51]

wagnerrp:

he suggested we fix the mailing list software

[16:57:24]

sphery:

any real MUA shouldn't have a problem

[16:57:32]

sphery:

there is still a Reply-To header in the list e-mails

[16:57:40]

wagnerrp:

yep

[16:57:43]

sphery:

and it replies to list

[16:57:47]

iamlindoro:

I hate people

[16:57:57]

Beirdo:

what the heck is "PocoMail"?

[16:57:57]

sphery:

so if he wants to put his on there, too, shouldn't be a problem

[16:58:01]

wagnerrp:

even worse, you get rejection emails from him saying your email was blocked because it appears to be unsolicited

[16:58:13]

sphery:

OK, /that/ is broken

[16:58:23]

sphery:

stupid approach to whitelisting

[16:58:25]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the problem becomes when he emails directly back to you, rather than through the list

[16:58:35]

sphery:

ah, that's broken too

[16:59:02]

Beirdo:

Email Client for Windows noted for its safety and protection from viruses.

[16:59:04]

Beirdo:

I see

[16:59:09]

sphery:

re the whitelisting, a mail server should be a black hole--and never send any external user an unsolicited e-mail or reply

[16:59:09]

awalls:

Hmmm. man -k killfile ....

[16:59:10]

Beirdo:

use gmail, you wonk.

[16:59:17]

sphery:

not even "mailbox doesn't exist" replies

[16:59:23]

wagnerrp:

i also tried and failed to explain the inefficiencies of his P3 850MHz blade farm he apparently has in his basement

[16:59:43]

wagnerrp:

damn the power budget, he doesnt want to have to buy new hardware to replace it

[16:59:43]

Beirdo:

ooooh, many blades of suckiness

[16:59:43]

sphery:

but it's a blade!

[16:59:49]

awalls:

Power or volume inefficiencies?

[17:00:06]

wagnerrp:

nevermind the fact that a single 1U box with a phenom X6 could replace that entire blade center

[17:00:14]

awalls:

:)

[17:00:21]

Beirdo:

not with CPU redundancy :)

[17:00:43]

Beirdo:

that's about the only thing the blade gives... if one dies, the rest should still run

[17:00:52]

wagnerrp:

the fact that your hardware would be 10 years newer should be sufficient

[17:00:55]

Beirdo:

and the "it's a blade server" cool facter

[17:00:57]

awalls:

More I/O bus bandwidth too, I guess.

[17:00:58]

wagnerrp:

amazing the whole thing is still running

[17:00:59]

Beirdo:

factor.

[17:01:13]

Beirdo:

not that many of us consider it cool anymore

[17:01:18]

sphery:

Beirdo: opinioner, perhaps?

[17:01:21]

wagnerrp:

i guess they dont make caps like they used to

[17:01:31]

** sphery doesn't consider blade servers cool **

[17:01:50]

Beirdo:

they were the cool thing for a bit... right about as his equipment came out :)

[17:02:20]

Beirdo:

might make a good anchor for your houseboat now.

[17:03:07]

sphery:

heh

[17:03:54]

wagnerrp:

someone recommended a G400 a couple weeks ago?

[17:04:02]

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[17:04:03]

sphery:

at least in the ocean, the problem of leeching of lead, etc, into the water would be slightly offset by the volume difference between the ocean and the rivers in China

[17:04:03]

Beirdo:

I'm all for using old hardware when appropriate though... No need to fill the rivers in China with our old crap any faster than we have to

[17:04:24]

sphery:

heh, we both went there

[17:04:27]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: I said earlier that it USED to be well supported. At least that was my mental intention

[17:04:39]

Beirdo:

he could still try mythtv with it... like 0.18 or so

[17:05:04]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: was that in his previous thread about the G400 a couple weeks ago?

[17:05:11]

Beirdo:

I thought so

[17:05:17]

Beirdo:

maybe I'm just on crack

[17:05:37]

sphery:

So, wasn't there talk of removing "Matrox" support? Was that for their MJPEG capture devices and this is some video card?

[17:06:04]

Beirdo:

yeah, I think so

[17:06:16]

Beirdo:

although some versions of the video card had the capture as well

[17:06:40]

Beirdo:

like the one I have at my dad's... came from Captain_Murdoch I think :)

[17:06:48]

wagnerrp:

here we go, someone talking about using their G450 non stop since he bought it in 2001

[17:07:30]

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[17:09:33]

sphery:

Beirdo: yeah, you're right about the support droppage: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/454063#454063

[17:09:55]

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[17:10:00]

wagnerrp:

when was the 2.4 kernel released?

[17:10:15]

wagnerrp:

i remember coming across some chart of the different kernel generations, but cant seem to find i

[17:10:15]

wagnerrp:

t

[17:10:16]

sphery:

2001-ish?

[17:10:32]

sphery:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel#Timeline

[17:10:43]

wagnerrp:

ah, should have thought to look there... thanks

[17:10:44]

sphery:

heh, seems I was right

[17:11:06]

sphery:

knew it was just a couple years after I started using GNU/Linux

[17:11:36]

wagnerrp:

trying to figure out the timeline of the guy who has been using a G450 since 2001

[17:11:43]

sphery:

so the question is, will we ever have a 2.7 or 2.8 kernel?

[17:11:47]

wagnerrp:

he probably installed it on a 2.2 machine

[17:13:59]

wagnerrp:

i started using linux in... 2003? but never installed one myself until 2.6.14 or so

[17:14:28]

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[17:16:37]

Beirdo:

heh, what is now 2.6.x really is 2.7.x

[17:16:45]

Beirdo:

it's development, not stable

[17:16:53]

sphery:

yeah

[17:17:06]

sphery:

it's definitely different with the new approach

[17:17:14]

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[17:17:22]

wagnerrp:

everyone wants the new hotness

[17:18:19]

sphery:

I heard the new hotness doesn't support the Matrox G400

[17:18:47]

Beirdo:

I think you misspelled Matrix :)

[17:18:48]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:18:58]

Beirdo:

that's how outdated those cards are

[17:19:14]

wagnerrp:

the Matrox has you

[17:19:45]

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[17:19:50]

Beirdo:

they did make good cards for the time

[17:20:36]

sphery:

yeah

[17:20:42]

sphery:

but times change

[17:21:14]

Beirdo:

never!

[17:21:23]

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[17:21:27]

sphery:

OK, so I'm happy about the OpenOffice.org plan to distance itself from Oracle, but I /hope/ Oracle signs over the name to them. LibreOffice is a terrible name

[17:21:30]

Beirdo:

I insist on running MythTV on a 486 with a 1.2.13 kernel!

[17:21:44]

kormoc:

Dude! So bleeding edge!

[17:21:56]

Beirdo:

I remember when it was :)

[17:21:57]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:22:08]

iamlindoro:

MAke that MythTV trunk

[17:22:21]

wagnerrp:

sure!

[17:22:23]

iamlindoro:

MythTV trunk on that 486, baby

[17:22:27]

Beirdo:

oooh. That should be fun

[17:22:32]

sphery:

Beirdo: I've been capturing and playing back high-definition TV on my Pentium 100/MMX since 1998. I had to rewrite MythTV in Perl because MythTV is a terrible resource hog, but it works great.

[17:22:37]

Beirdo:

would take what...a week... to compile?

[17:22:45]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[17:22:54]

wagnerrp:

'svn co -r1 http://svn.mythtv.org/svn/trunk'

[17:22:57]

wagnerrp:

there you go

[17:23:04]

Beirdo:

well, it is a resource hog, but meh :)

[17:23:12]

sphery:

I'm actually getting /all/ of the 480 lines of resolution in the signal, so it's as high definition as you can get.

[17:23:32]

Beirdo:

I'm sure we could make it use less memory, etc, but let's make it work properly instead :)

[17:23:38]

sphery:

yeah

[17:23:38]

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[17:23:38]

Beirdo:

not that RAM's that expensive

[17:23:52]

sphery:

and really, memory usage is nearly all for the fancy themes that users want

[17:23:53]

Beirdo:

wow, you got past 320x240?!

[17:23:55]

Beirdo:

you rule!

[17:24:01]

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[17:24:13]

sphery:

I'm sure x**c isn't much different when you load up a pretty theme

[17:24:27]

Beirdo:

probably not

[17:24:27]

awalls:

I want MythTV with aalib rendering!

[17:24:42]

sphery:

awalls: that's so 1993... Go with caca

[17:24:45]

Beirdo:

I mean, let's be fair... 1920x1080... is a lot of pixels :)

[17:24:57]

Beirdo:

libcaca :) So well named

[17:25:05]

sphery:

awalls: http://caca.zoy.org/wiki/libcaca from http://caca.zoy.org/

[17:25:09]

awalls:

I only have an amber screen

[17:25:26]

sphery:

heh, but still, you get antialiasing with caca

[17:25:30]

awalls:

The one that came with my Apple ][+

[17:25:51]

awalls:

:)

[17:26:25]

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[17:26:44]

Beirdo:

we need an Apple ][+ compatible QAM/ATSC capture card

[17:27:08]

awalls:

lol!

[17:27:29]

Beirdo:

driver in 6502 assembly, of course

[17:27:34]

awalls:

It only has hope of working in Slot 7

[17:27:48]

awalls:

That slot has the extra video/timing signal IIRC

[17:27:51]

Beirdo:

OK, we'll let you use a Z80 extenstion processor

[17:28:07]

Beirdo:

mythtv under CP/M

[17:28:10]

Beirdo:

that would be fun

[17:28:13]

Beirdo:

NOT

[17:28:22]

awalls:

Nope that board had to run in slot 7. I ha sCP/M for my apple running on the Z80 board

[17:28:23]

AndyCap:

O_o

[17:28:31]

wagnerrp:

30 frames per hour decoding performance

[17:28:31]

wagnerrp:

woo!

[17:29:11]

** awalls is astounded he has found someone else who knew that CP/M was possible on an Apple ][ **

[17:29:13]

Beirdo:

this is the sort of mocking that occurs when people ask for insane things :)

[17:29:31]

Beirdo:

I used dBase III on CP/M on Apple ][+

[17:29:35]

Beirdo:

and Pascal :)

[17:29:50]

awalls:

Whew. Well at least I didn't use Pascal. ;)

[17:30:04]

Beirdo:

Pascal was... fun

[17:30:11]

Beirdo:

crappiest compiler... ever

[17:30:17]

awalls:

MateWare?

[17:30:34]

awalls:

/MetaWare/

[17:30:34]

wagnerrp:

that sounds like a computer dating software

[17:30:48]

Beirdo:

I don't remember any more... this was... 25+ years ago now

[17:30:55]

awalls:

If it ran on an Apple ][, odds are it was crappy.

[17:31:04]

Beirdo:

holy crap, I feel old

[17:31:17]

Beirdo:

yup, by definition :)

[17:31:47]

Beirdo:

we had Unitron clones (the first bunch of people to make Apple the DRM bastards they are now)

[17:32:36]

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[17:36:46]

** awalls ponders 1 MHz 6502 CPU clock, so 65 CPU cycles per video line, 640 pixels per line ... Definitely going to have to use DMA... **

[17:37:53]

wagnerrp:

was config.xml added for 0.21 or 0.22?

[17:39:33]

** awalls ... 640x480 /1024 = 300 kB ... Apple ][+ RAM is 48 kB ... Nope VGA resolution is out **

[17:40:49]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:41:28]

Beirdo:

the card would have to include extra RAM for buffers, and allow the CPU to page it via a register

[17:44:49]

sphery:

wagnerrp: 0.21 or before

[17:45:31]

** AndyCap is reminded of BluREU **

[17:45:44]

awalls:

It would also have to provide it's own output CRTC, the on baord on only read from RAM: HGR and HGR2 screen area. :)

[17:45:50]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/13022

[17:46:45]

sphery:

trac is running slow

[17:47:00]

Beirdo:

awalls: you are putting far too much thought into this :)

[17:47:01]

awalls:

So for the Apple ][+ Video Capture card design, one basically has a single board computer that take power and Command and Control from the Apple ][+

[17:47:14]

sphery:

we should switch Trac to use the Oracle database

[17:47:18]

sphery:

(MySQL, of course :)

[17:47:32]

Beirdo:

capture to floppy disk

[17:47:49]

Beirdo:

guuuurkity gurk.

[17:47:59]

awalls:

bwahahaha

[17:48:23]

Beirdo:

those were the most obnoxious drives ever

[17:48:29]

awalls:

360 kB floppy = 1 640x480 frame uncompressed

[17:48:53]

Beirdo:

I remember having to tease the door to get it to boot

[17:49:03]

awalls:

Filed 0 on the top, field 1 one the flip side. Don't forget your hole punch.

[17:49:19]

awalls:

/Field/

[17:50:05]

awalls:

Or was it 320 kB? Who cares. ;)

[17:50:31]

awalls:

So P3 850 MHz blades servers are way better!

[17:51:06]

Beirdo:

heh.

[18:00:37]

Beirdo:

OMG.

[18:00:53]

Beirdo:

so the dude wants to use VGA->svideo converter now?

[18:01:05]

Beirdo:

buy a new TV, you silly person!

[18:02:08]

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[18:02:09]

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[18:05:28]

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[18:06:49]

awalls:

Way OT: FPGA implementation of the Apple ][+: http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~sedwards/apple2fpga/

[18:12:35]

trumee is now known as zzztrumee

[18:16:06]

Beirdo:

I'm sure Apple will sue

[18:17:47]

sphery:

yet another reason why it's good that we switched to tmdb: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1736 . . . nt-film-imdb

[18:18:23]

wagnerrp:

sphery: thats crap

[18:18:45]

sphery:

the article or IMDb's decision?

[18:18:58]

wagnerrp:

all they have to do is do a limited showing somewhere, one theater one time... or a film festival... anything like that

[18:19:00]

awalls:

My apple came with a manual with all the schematics in it – including the floppy disk controllers. The Apple of old wouldn't sue. Steve Jobs' Apple: probably

[18:19:24]

sphery:

wagnerrp: but direct-to-dvd movies go in

[18:19:30]

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[18:19:44]

wagnerrp:

they simply refuse to do so out of stubbornness, or perhaps the press of such a complaint

[18:19:46]

Beirdo:

awalls: all but the bootrom code. That's how they caught Unitron

[18:19:54]

wagnerrp:

sphery: sure, because Amazon can sell those

[18:19:56]

sphery:

anyway, I hate all that is imdb

[18:19:58]

Beirdo:

and they DID sue

[18:20:03]

Beirdo:

and won

[18:20:21]

Beirdo:

and the monster was created

[18:20:21]

awalls:

Ah, Pystar just lost against Apple recently for doing something like that too.

[18:20:28]

wagnerrp:

hate IMDB all you want, but dont hate them for this issue

[18:20:37]

sphery:

so, pioneer one isn't in imdb, either

[18:20:47]

sphery:

Beirdo: what was that one you watched? Was it Pioneer One?

[18:20:51]

sphery:

http://vodo.net/pioneerone

[18:20:55]

wagnerrp:

its a non-issue just to drum up press for their bittorrent-released movie

[18:20:59]

Beirdo:

yep, that was the one

[18:21:02]

iamlindoro:

How can this guy be SO F**KING S**TTARDED?

[18:21:28]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: if he wasn't, you'd have a pleasant Monday. We need SOMEONE to ruin our days

[18:21:42]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: its because hes grounded in LSD

[18:22:43]

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[18:31:24]

runpain2:

Sooo Whooo is hereeee :P

[18:32:23]

Beirdo:

nobody. Just us chickens.

[18:32:36]

runpain2:

i noticed

[18:33:00]

runpain2:

I need some Help Please

[18:33:20]

runpain2:

I think its my mind though

[18:33:24]

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[18:33:31]

iamlindoro:

runpain2: Most people prefer not to fall all over themselves until they've heard an actual question

[18:33:42]

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[18:33:47]

runpain2:

I noticed

[18:34:18]

runpain2:

I am new at this linux stuff

[18:35:18]

runpain2:

Never thought Iwould say this But MicroSoft did it they put out a Os that works

[18:35:28]

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[18:35:33]

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[18:35:39]

momelod:

greetings channel

[18:35:40]

runpain2:

Windows 7

[18:35:42]

wagnerrp:

linux is not an operating system

[18:35:48]

** iamlindoro wonders when the actual question will happen **

[18:35:50]

wagnerrp:

never has been, never will be

[18:35:52]

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[18:35:55]

runpain2:

Hello wagnerrp

[18:35:59]

momelod:

can anyone tell me how to add videos such as avi's to the recordings ?

[18:36:11]

wagnerrp:

momelod: you dont, you add them to mythvideo

[18:36:30]

momelod:

wagnerrp, in this case i'd like to add them to my recordings since they are tv shows

[18:36:43]

wagnerrp:

yes, mythvideo handles tv shows

[18:36:45]

runpain2:

can i get myth for windows

[18:36:56]

wagnerrp:

you can get a frontend for windows

[18:37:30]

momelod:

wagnerrp, i understand that, but i'd still prefer to add them to recordings.. I do it successfully using mythnetv, but i would like to extend this to my manual downloads aswell

[18:37:42]

wagnerrp:

downloads?

[18:37:50]

momelod:

yes, downloads of avis

[18:38:06]

iamlindoro:

avast

[18:38:20]

runpain2:

I have a Asus Falcon 2 tv tuner card on my desktop when i used myth in mythubuntu it could not find it

[18:38:44]

wagnerrp:

runpain2: mythtv does not support tuner cards, it supports capture APIs

[18:39:00]

runpain2:

whats up with that

[18:39:17]

wagnerrp:

runpain2: windows programs function exactly the same

[18:39:24]

Criggie:

runpain2: your kernel needs to find it.

[18:39:27]

wagnerrp:

that is not 'odd' behavior

[18:39:32]

runpain2:

The card has context chipset

[18:39:40]

Criggie:

conexant ?

[18:39:44]

Beirdo:

!url tuners

[18:39:44]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[18:39:50]

runpain2:

Yes look up card

[18:40:23]

wagnerrp:

are you telling us to try to figure out which of the hundreds of tuner cards using conexant chips you have?

[18:41:08]

runpain2:

Asus NTSC TV-Tuner

[18:41:45]

wagnerrp:

asus has several tuner cards capable of NTSC, none of which are worth trying to use for recording video

[18:41:56]

Criggie:

runpain2: mmmmmm have you tried researching any of this?

[18:42:06]

Criggie:

runpain2: heard of google.com ?

[18:42:25]

runpain2:

but when I use windowsxp with media portal it finds it

[18:42:32]

wagnerrp:

no, the /correct/ place to research tv tuner cards on linux is that link MythLogBot just posted above

[18:42:52]

wagnerrp:

runpain2: media portal doesnt support tuner cards either

[18:43:23]

runpain2:

Hmm how come it works on my computer

[18:43:51]

** Beirdo hands wagnerrp a trout **

[18:43:51]

wagnerrp:

mediaportal supports the VfW, BDA, and maybe other APIs available on windows

[18:44:03]

wagnerrp:

they neither provide tuner drivers, nor directly support any tuner cards

[18:44:08]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is exactly the same

[18:44:27]

dewman:

I think its time for seppuku

[18:44:31]

wagnerrp:

meaning whatever struggles you have with your tuner card, whatever complaints you have about it not being picked up by your system

[18:44:36]

wagnerrp:

we dont deal with it here

[18:44:39]

runpain2:

I am using Windows XP sp2 And have Media Portal installed and can record tv

[18:44:54]

Beirdo:

and?

[18:45:03]

wagnerrp:

see the above linuxtv wiki, or try the #linuxtv channel

[18:45:03]

iamlindoro:

runpain2: you are not listening. *NO* DVR "supports" tuners

[18:45:03]

Criggie:

runpain2: nice – so why are you looking at mythtv?

[18:45:12]

iamlindoro:

runpain2: they support capture *APIs*

[18:45:15]

runpain2:

Using The tuner card hook to my satilite

[18:45:22]

Beirdo:

your first task is to get the Linux kernel and drivers to like your card

[18:45:25]

Beirdo:

hence

[18:45:28]

Beirdo:

!url tuners

[18:45:28]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[18:45:50]

iamlindoro:

runpain2: what we are trying to tell you is that we only support the interfaces to giant groups of capture cards-- we have nothing to do with what capture card is suppoted where-- and we have *no* support for any of the Windows APIs

[18:45:50]

Beirdo:

if it's not supported by a driver in Linux, it will not work in Linux. Period.

[18:45:52]

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[18:46:18]

Beirdo:

if it has a working driver, MythTV talks to the API implemented in that driver

[18:46:26]

Beirdo:

that is all

[18:46:28]

iamlindoro:

runpain2: So if you want to use MythTV, you will need to use linux, meaning you need to find a capture card that is supported by the Video4Linux API... we support the API, not the individual cards

[18:46:49]

runpain2:

Thanks Folks you all Are great

[18:46:54]

runpain2:

gota go

[18:46:59]

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[18:47:03]

Criggie:

troll ?

[18:47:14]

Beirdo:

nah, thick-headed Windows user :)

[18:47:33]

Criggie:

you ever get the feelin that some users are more trouble to help than they're worth?

[18:47:50]

Beirdo:

only about every other user

[18:47:55]

Criggie:

:)

[18:48:10]

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[18:48:17]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand where people get the idea that we support tuner cards from

[18:48:40]

Beirdo:

from crappy windows apps that only work for particular tuners, likely

[18:49:07]

wagnerrp:

you mean the ones that come straight from the manufacturer?

[18:49:49]

AndyCap:

It's card names that are on the tin, not Video4Linux2 api support, now with s2api support. :P

[18:50:11]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: yeah, that use non-standard APIs only for that card

[18:50:44]

Beirdo:

stupid driver design to lock people into your crappy software

[18:50:51]

Beirdo:

the non-linuxtv-way

[18:51:09]

iamlindoro:

I'm not familiar with any tuner app for windows that doesn't use the WDM or BDA interfaces

[18:51:13]

iamlindoro:

even those from the manufacturers

[18:51:24]

Beirdo:

that could be :)

[18:51:41]

Beirdo:

but that's just the impression it gives

[18:51:44]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: even those that use the BDA interfaces, most of the applications lock themselves to only work with the tuners provided by the manufacturer.

[18:52:01]

Beirdo:

OMG, someone musta turned on a CRT... or my ears are messing up.

[18:52:13]

Beirdo:

high frequency here we come

[18:52:29]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: That much I guess I can believe.. only wanted to suggest that most manufacturers wouldn't reinvent the wheel when BDA is there for the taking

[18:52:45]

devinheitmueller:

Correct.

[18:52:54]

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[18:53:17]

devinheitmueller:

Of course, if you've ever used graphedit, you would see that the structure of the graphs needed for individual tuners vary *wildly* based on the core tuner and driver design.

[18:54:52]

AndyCap:

heh, first time I've heard of graphedit since I read that dvd upscaling htpc article. :P

[18:55:19]

awalls:

Windows dev util for BDA stuff, right?

[18:55:39]

wagnerrp:

awalls: and all video playback as well

[18:55:40]

AndyCap:

awalls: for any multimedia stuff iirc. at least video

[18:56:04]

awalls:

I've seen it, never used it.

[18:56:09]

wagnerrp:

it controls how you chain together various filters

[18:56:28]

wagnerrp:

a 'node graph' as it were

[18:56:43]

sphery:

wow, google may do search well, but they don't do comparisons well... http://code.google.com/speed/webp/gallery.html

[18:56:57]

wagnerrp:

you get sources and sinks and things that passthrough

[18:57:13]

sphery:

take a random sampling of JPEG images saved with different quality settings and then compare the file size to the size of images compressed with Webp

[18:57:42]

wagnerrp:

sphery: not to mention theyre not starting from a raw

[18:57:46]

sphery:

talk about apples and oranges (where the apples are even multiple different varieties of apples)

[18:57:48]

devinheitmueller:

awalls: it's the Windows equivalent to the magical "mediacontroller" framework the LinuxTV guys are building.

[18:58:04]

sphery:

wagnerrp: exactly... seems all marketing--hoping people forget how images work

[18:58:08]

wagnerrp:

so the webp images will necessarily have all the same jpeg artifacts as the jpeg original

[18:58:14]

sphery:

yep

[18:58:18]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:58:37]

wagnerrp:

hey everyone, look how great our 4-color tv looks on... your 3-color tv

[18:58:37]

awalls:

Ahem: that's "Mythical"

[18:58:41]

devinheitmueller:

awalls: Kind of depressing that Microsoft built this stuff ten years ago (sources/sinks/linking), and Hans and company are trying to reinvent it without ever looking at how MS did it (to see what was good/bad about their approach).

[18:58:44]

wagnerrp:

arent things so vibrant and wonderful!

[18:58:48]

Beirdo:

although just for showing filesize for web applications... it's still not the worst thing, sphery

[18:58:54]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, at least he makes fun of the fact that you can't see the difference :)

[18:59:12]

awalls:

Well progress is always faster with time and money.

[18:59:12]

NightMonkey:

I'd like to try to flip over to mariaDB instead of MySQL. Anyone here given that a shot? Any showstoppers?

[18:59:13]

wagnerrp:

does he? ive never really paid attention to them

[18:59:30]

wagnerrp:

NightMonkey: that a joke?

[18:59:36]

Beirdo:

NightMonkey: please give back the crack pipe

[18:59:36]

sphery:

Beirdo: yeah, but save that Theorore & QM file at 90% quality JPEG and it's 418kB

[18:59:54]

** NightMonkey hands the crack pipe back to Bierdo **

[19:00:01]

awalls:

As for looking at someone's stuff, I dunno if I'd want to ape Microsoft.

[19:00:06]

sphery:

i.e. there's /huge/ difference in JPEG file size depending on what quality setting you specify

[19:00:19]

sphery:

90% quality makes it 40% the size

[19:00:21]

awalls:

Although their BDA architecture is way beetr thean V4L2

[19:00:26]

Beirdo:

sphery: true

[19:00:30]

awalls:

/better/

[19:00:44]

devinheitmueller:

awalls: I'm not saying we should copy microsoft, but it's a *huge* piece of infrastructure and it's pretty dumb not to learn from how others approached the same problem.

[19:00:47]

sphery:

which is basically the same as the webp file size difference

[19:00:56]

Beirdo:

NightMonkey: if it will talk on standard MySQL ports and look to the application like MySQL, it might just work

[19:01:03]

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[19:01:05]

Beirdo:

until we embed the db :)

[19:01:15]

awalls:

There is a lot of crap in-kernel in Linux that just doesn't need to be there, except for political/non-technical reasons

[19:01:26]

NightMonkey:

Beirdo: Oh, you're embedding the DB at some point.

[19:01:32]

devinheitmueller:

awalls: Like building the ultimate HTPC solution without ever looking at the competition. ;-)

[19:01:41]

Beirdo:

that was the general idea

[19:01:43]

NightMonkey:

Beirdo: I understand. Less choice, less problems.

[19:01:51]

sphery:

if the purpose of webp is to make a non-configurable image format that users can't break by choosing the wrong compression/quality, then it may have some value--otherwise, they need to do a real comparison starting from uncompressed, high-quality images and saving with various JPEG quality settings

[19:01:53]

awalls:

devinheitmueller: Fightin' words? ;)

[19:02:02]

sphery:

just my opinion, though

[19:02:03]

Beirdo:

less user monkeying, less problems

[19:02:09]

devinheitmueller:

awalls: that criticism was directed at the MythTV folks, not you. :-)

[19:02:16]

sphery:

note, also, I didn't buy into the webm marketing, either

[19:02:22]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: Some of us take careful note of the other options and make efforts, meager as they might be, to learn from them

[19:02:23]

awalls:

know, they didn't bite (yet).

[19:02:29]

sphery:

(i.e. "patent unencumbered" part)

[19:02:37]

devinheitmueller:

MythTV is the super best awesome HTPC solution, except I've never actually looked at anything else!

[19:02:44]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:02:52]

Beirdo:

well, many of us have looked

[19:03:04]

Beirdo:

maybe not recently anymore

[19:03:09]

devinheitmueller:

It's way better than Windows Media Center, except I hate Microsoft and have never actually tried it!

[19:03:18]

NightMonkey:

Beirdo: I think the question with mariaDB is if my meta-distro truly has the capability to allow mariaDB to be a "drop-in replacement" for mysql, or if it is still half-baked packaging.

[19:03:20]

devinheitmueller:

Ok, I'll stop now. :-)

[19:03:25]

** iamlindoro has used most of the other HTPC softwares, and a fair handful of the DVRs, does he get to like Myth now? **

[19:03:26]

wagnerrp:

so why does Brian Wood keep calling Hitler?

[19:03:34]

awalls:

Media Center has much better FM radio support.

[19:03:41]

sphery:

NightMonkey: one or more people have used Drizzle... I'd guess Maria would work, too

[19:03:48]

wagnerrp:

awalls: s/much better//

[19:03:51]

Beirdo:

awalls: some of that is drivers in linuxtv side issue :)

[19:03:57]

sphery:

not that there's much of a gain for a MythTV box (IMHO)

[19:03:59]

Beirdo:

anyways, I'm off to lunch

[19:04:07]

awalls:

:)

[19:04:10]

wagnerrp:

(we dont do FM)

[19:04:21]

sphery:

iamlindoro: and iamlindoro has started down the BDA path, too

[19:04:30]

wagnerrp:

cant claim something is much better if theres nothing to compare it to

[19:04:38]

devinheitmueller:

awalls: I blame the driver developers for never providing a way to associate the ALSA device with the /dev/radio device node.

[19:04:43]

sphery:

I never can remember what BDA stands for... Bad Driver Architecture?

[19:04:45]

wagnerrp:

sphery: theres two of em now?

[19:04:46]

NightMonkey:

sphery, Beirdo: Thanks for bouncing the idea around with me.

[19:04:49]

iamlindoro:

Broadcast

[19:04:51]

sphery:

joking--I haven't tried that

[19:04:52]

awalls:

BRoadcast Driver Architecture

[19:04:58]

sphery:

I don't know anything about BDA

[19:05:05]

sphery:

cool

[19:05:07]

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[19:05:08]

sphery:

makes sense

[19:05:14]

** NightMonkey thinks that was grrrrrrEAT! crack **

[19:05:22]

sphery:

wagnerrp: 2 of iamlindoro ? yeah

[19:05:40]

sphery:

there's the good one--that only appears in PMs--and the evil one :)

[19:05:45]

iamlindoro:

Then I can get twice as much nothing done

[19:06:21]

sphery:

and the evil one can close all the tickets and remind users to read the TicketHowTo

[19:06:27]

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[19:06:29]

sphery:

and people still like the good one

[19:06:37]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, irksome to be beating your brains out trying to see where others have succeeded and failed, and to improve how things work, only to be told you're not

[19:06:49]

iamlindoro:

Guess we should all just give the eff up

[19:07:03]

sphery:

then again, not improving has a lot to do with trying to support 2001-vintage hardware

[19:07:15]

sphery:

so fix that problem, then we'll see how bad MythTV is :)

[19:07:52]

iamlindoro:

Only if we can fix people trying to run it on 2001-era hardware anyway

[19:08:08]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[19:08:30]

sphery:

but it's /free/, so I shouldn't have to pay $150 for a new computer

[19:08:44]

sphery:

I should be able to use any random garbage I find in the dumpsters

[19:10:43]

Flasheart:

pretty sure teh backend would run on a calculator, to be fair

[19:11:11]

iamlindoro:

No.

[19:11:12]

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[19:11:51]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: this Brynwood is going to be troublesome

[19:11:54]

sphery:

getting Qt to compile/install on a calculator would be quite a feat

[19:13:44]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, seems others don't believe the webp marketing: http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/541

[19:15:24]

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[19:15:30]

zed_devil:

hi all

[19:15:35]

zed_devil:

can someone please help me > i just finishing the setup of mythbuntu – but i dont know how to setup my TT-connect S2–3600 USB sat tuner < and pleas note i know linux i just startet with it

[19:15:52]

wagnerrp:

!url tuners

[19:15:52]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[19:16:12]

wagnerrp:

see their wiki for how to get your tuner card working in linux

[19:16:32]

zed_devil:

ok i will have a look th

[19:16:34]

zed_devil:

thx

[19:16:48]

wagnerrp:

if you have it recognized in linux, and cannot figure out how to get it configured in mythtv, then we can help

[19:20:59]

zed_devil:

the TT-connect S2–3600 USB is not in the wiki – so it istn's suportet

[19:21:13]

wagnerrp:

zed_devil: very possible

[19:21:45]

iamlindoro:

Basic information lookup fail

[19:21:47]

iamlindoro:

http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/TechnoT . . . nect_S2-3600

[19:22:14]

iamlindoro:

Click "DVB-S2," then "USB"... then click the device name

[19:22:25]

iamlindoro:

If that failed, MythTV is gonna be hard

[19:22:59]

iamlindoro:

That said, the wiki needs some work, since it still refers to the S2API repository

[19:23:09]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: awalls: etc ^

[19:23:18]

devinheitmueller:

lord.

[19:23:21]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, probably true.

[19:24:42]

zed_devil:

ok thx you – i try the driver setup and come back if i need help in mythtv

[19:24:49]

zed_devil:

thank u guys

[19:25:11]

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[19:27:47]

iamlindoro:

Apparently someone has written a wrapper for libhdhomerun to make it behave as a v4l-dvb device

[19:28:25]

sphery:

interesting

[19:28:43]

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[19:28:57]

awalls:

Going in this way is a little better: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/List_of_Device_Vendors

[19:28:59]

sphery:

wagnerrp: still having issues with hdhr stuff making your 2nd recordings stop?

[19:29:15]

wagnerrp:

sphery: only under freebsd it seems

[19:29:18]

sphery:

oh

[19:29:21]

awalls:

It's a link on the Hardware DEvice Information page mentioned earlier

[19:29:40]

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[19:29:46]

iamlindoro:

awalls: Most people ask "what tuners are supported" so they want to device the interface and tuner type rather than play "pick a company"

[19:29:54]

iamlindoro:

er decide

[19:30:26]

iamlindoro:

We usually pull the "!url tuners" trick for the 200 times a day someone says "What tuner should I choose under linux"

[19:30:32]

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[19:30:32]

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[19:30:40]

iamlindoro:

and if they went in that way they'd just be clicking random companies

[19:30:43]

crankygeek:

Hello, I have a Ubuntu system running MythTV on it, I recently upgraded the video card to an nVidia 210 with HDMI output built on it. the drivers installe dfine and it's outputting to a Sony Bravia XBR LCD. the problem I have is that the desktop is streched out on all 4 edges of the screen, changing the resolution doesn't seem to help at all, is there something that is different with HDMI output as opposed to using a regular mo

[19:31:06]

awalls:

iamlindoro: I agree.

[19:31:36]

iamlindoro:

That said, I guess having a "url tunercompanies" couldn't hurt

[19:31:51]

wagnerrp:

crankygeek: do you have an option somewhere in your TV menu for 'pixel exact', or anything of that nature?

[19:32:12]

wagnerrp:

nearly all TVs overscan to some amount, even on the digital inputs, and most do not allow you to disable it

[19:32:21]

crankygeek:

wagnerrp> crankygeek: do you have an option somewhere in your TV menu

[19:32:33]

iamlindoro:

crankygeek: wagnerrp> crankygeek: do you have an option somewhere in your TV menu

[19:32:38]

iamlindoro:

Yay, this is fun!

[19:32:43]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro> crankygeek: wagnerrp> crankygeek: do you have an option somewhere in your TV menu

[19:32:52]

awalls:

Meta Q&A

[19:33:08]

awalls:

Except there's no A's

[19:33:29]

iamlindoro:

Oh there are As all right

[19:33:44]

** awalls snickers **

[19:33:49]

crankygeek:

wagnerrp: I have not seen anything like that, I will check again tho,........someone else had told me that I need to change the actual TV controls, and shrink the picture down so it fits correctly, but that also changes for my DVD player and stuff, so that didn't help

[19:34:15]

wagnerrp:

crankygeek: old nvidia cards used to have overscan controls for the standard definition TV outputs

[19:34:21]

wagnerrp:

but there is no such tool for the digital ones

[19:34:29]

wagnerrp:

mythtv has its own 'screen configuration wizard'

[19:34:39]

wagnerrp:

to let you shrink the UI to exactly fit the size on screen

[19:35:56]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: a year and a half ago, i bought a PCIe 8400 for $25, and a PCI one for $35

[19:36:05]

wagnerrp:

what are people still doing buying GF6200s?

[19:36:10]

crankygeek:

I tried that, I can adjust the top right corner, but I can never seem to get the other bottom corner to change, I can't even see the bottom corner....no matter how much I adjust it in

[19:36:22]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: The same people who are trying to use Matrox G400s? ;)

[19:45:38]

justinh:

meh. more failed recordings :-\

[19:45:52]

justinh:

nothing of note in the log other than yada yada file should be local but cannot be found

[19:46:01]

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[19:47:02]

justinh:

gah. frickin *buntu restarting the backend. if it just bloody fell over...

[19:48:21]

justinh:

or not

[19:48:23]

justinh:

DVBSH(/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0): Failed to open DVR device /dev/dvb/adapter0/dvr0 : Device or resource busy

[19:48:26]

justinh:

DUH!

[19:48:45]

iamlindoro:

justinh: trunk?

[19:48:51]

justinh:

well HELLO mythtv yes the device is busy cos this thing called mythbackend has got it

[19:48:54]

justinh:

nope

[19:49:21]

NightMonkey:

justinh: It's just being friendly and open.

[19:49:40]

NightMonkey:

justinh: And thoughtful.

[19:49:45]

justinh:

pfft

[19:50:43]

justinh:

what are all those GetPlaybackURL: things about anyway?

[19:50:49]

justinh:

I mean the files exist & all

[19:51:51]

iamlindoro:

Daniel added logging in one of his many programinfo refactors

[19:51:58]

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[19:52:00]

iamlindoro:

It's one of two that I think need moving that he added

[19:52:51]

justinh:

if I'm right, MBE is falling over left right & centre & stupid*buntu is just restarting it

[19:53:11]

justinh:

shouldn't be reporting the runtime prefix etc at any other time I expect

[19:54:41]

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[19:55:06]

justinh:

found 5435.690079] cx88[1]: irq mpeg [0x100000] ts_err?* in dmesg though

[19:55:21]

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[19:55:23]

justinh:

and later 6334.899003] cx88[2]: irq mpeg [0x100000] ts_err?*

[19:57:27]

NightMonkey:

Isn't there some way to stop Ubuntu from restarting a service, and just letting it die?

[19:57:33]

NightMonkey:

Did they leave that out?

[19:57:46]

Criggie:

depends what's starting it

[19:57:46]

justinh:

left it out of the docs .. think I've seen it somewhere

[19:57:51]

Guest47891:

Anybody know when 0.24 is being released. It has a fix for the 2010 mac mini remote control.

[19:57:54]

Criggie:

call soemething from init and it'll restart on death

[19:58:02]

justinh:

Criggie: when it's ready :-P

[19:58:09]

justinh:

er.. Guest47891 I mean

[19:58:10]

wagnerrp:

Guest18431: 2–3 weeks after it forks

[19:58:28]

NightMonkey:

Criggie: Hrm, don't think that mythbackend would be restarted from init, at least by default.

[19:58:42]

justinh:

upstart. it's *buntu crazyname PoS

[19:58:45]

Criggie:

NightMonkey: ahhh

[19:58:56]

Criggie:

I run monit from init, which keeps other processes running

[19:59:07]

wagnerrp:

Guest18431: from what i remember, the issue with fixing the new mac mini remote would break the old remotes

[19:59:55]

zzztrumee is now known as trumee

[20:01:23]

justinh:

yeah I'd need to remove the 'respawn' line from /etc/init/mythtv-backend.conf

[20:01:29]

justinh:

bonkers

[20:01:52]

NightMonkey:

justinh: man sv

[20:02:00]

tgm4883:

NightMonkey, is there a reason you want to let it die?

[20:02:05]

justinh:

nah I'll just hack the file up

[20:02:40]

justinh:

anyway "no man entry for sv. This is ubuntu, remember"

[20:02:49]

NightMonkey:

tgm4883: It's not for me. It's for justinh.

[20:02:56]

tgm4883:

ah

[20:03:04]

justinh:

I want it to die so I know it's died

[20:03:11]

NightMonkey:

Wha?

[20:03:12]

NightMonkey:

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jaunty/man8/sv.8.html

[20:03:31]

tgm4883:

ok

[20:03:39]

** tgm4883 stops talking to crazy people **

[20:03:46]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:03:52]

Beirdo:

you are still logged in :)

[20:03:55]

NightMonkey:

Just restarting programs after they crash doesn't fix problems. It's just continues them

[20:04:03]

justinh:

yup yup yup

[20:04:46]

** NightMonkey belives monit is somewhat evil and makes people the wrong kind of lazy. **

[20:04:50]

justinh:

seems to always be ITV1 which fails. first time mythbackend just gave up & fell over it seems. 2nd time.. no recording to speak of

[20:04:59]

tgm4883:

true, but backend crashing and not recording your favorite shows just pisses people off

[20:05:05]

kormoc:

"The autoexpirer is going crazy and expiring all my data!" "Stop the backend!" "I can't! IT AUTO RESTARTS!"

[20:05:07]

justinh:

both cases resulted in 0GB files

[20:05:25]

tgm4883:

I wonder if we can set upstart to respawn only a certain number of times/period of time

[20:05:32]

justinh:

seeing IRQ stuff in dmesg makes me think it's hardware or kernel related

[20:05:44]

kormoc:

tgm4883, restarting also masks the problem, so we never hear about the crashes and can't fix them...

[20:06:29]

tgm4883:

kormoc, it might mask the issue, but it resolves the problem in alot of cases

[20:06:58]

kormoc:

Depends how often it crashes

[20:06:59]

NightMonkey:

I ran from a job where they had a RoR setup, and monit was restarting hundreds of procs every 5 minuites for WEEKS.

[20:07:25]

NightMonkey:

And they thought that was normal.

[20:07:29]

tgm4883:

kormoc, true, which is why I wonder if we can stop it from respawning if say it crashes 5 times in 10 minutes (or similar)

[20:08:03]

kormoc:

if it crashes monthly, we should fix that

[20:08:27]

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[20:08:34]

kormoc:

We (developers) really feel the BE is pretty rock solid these days

[20:08:41]

kormoc:

it'd be nice to know if that's not the case...

[20:08:59]

justinh:

yeh I need to know if it's hardware, signal or what

[20:10:04]

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[20:10:33]

NightMonkey:

tgm4883: Head-in-the-sand administration is not administration at all.

[20:11:02]

tgm4883:

NightMonkey, well I guess it's good most users don't consider mythtv something they should have to administer?

[20:11:29]

tgm4883:

on any note, it looks like we can set it to only respawn x times in x minutes

[20:12:27]

iamlindoro:

Isn't it sort of a moot point since upstart is not long for this world?

[20:12:36]

iamlindoro:

(I mean, obviously it's relevant *today*)

[20:13:05]

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[20:13:35]

tgm4883:

iamlindoro, is there something else replacing upstart?

[20:13:51]

iamlindoro:

tgm4883: so I am told

[20:14:15]

iamlindoro:

I was very shocked to learn that upstart forgoes such basic elements as setting the user of the process

[20:14:31]

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[20:14:34]

iamlindoro:

(requiring us to put in ugly hacks)

[20:14:45]

tgm4883:

it does?

[20:14:48]

iamlindoro:

yes

[20:14:53]

tgm4883:

interesting

[20:14:58]

iamlindoro:

that's why we now have --user arguments to the BE

[20:15:01]

iamlindoro:

to support upstart

[20:15:18]

iamlindoro:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd

[20:15:20]

iamlindoro:

There we go

[20:15:26]

iamlindoro:

That's what fedora is replacing upstart with

[20:15:53]

kormoc:

iamlindoro, aye, only fedora. Ubuntu is keeping on with upstart

[20:16:00]

iamlindoro:

lurvely

[20:16:06]

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[20:16:27]

tgm4883:

ah yea, I heard of that

[20:16:59]

NightMonkey:

My 0.23.1 mythbe runs for weeks on end, no restarts. If it crashed, I'd want it to stay down until I found out why it crashed. But if tgm4883's right, most Myth users don't care and can't be bothered to fix things. Sad.

[20:17:41]

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[20:17:58]

tgm4883:

NightMonkey, yea, because having your backend stay down and not record stuff is more important than the shows you have set to record

[20:18:13]

tgm4883:

NightMonkey, I think you might need to check your priorities vs what regular users what

[20:18:22]

kormoc:

tgm4883, it is when it's recording 0 byte files and expire good recordings to make room for empty ones...

[20:18:48]

kormoc:

tgm4883, I love it when my 5 episodes of L&O:SVU turn to 5 0 byte episodes

[20:19:40]

tgm4883:

kormoc, I love it when nothing gets recorded so all I have left is 200 shows I've already watched

[20:20:02]

NightMonkey:

tgm4883: What is a "regular user" for mythtv?

[20:20:09]

sphery:

justinh: Which distro/version? I'm thinking there may be a borked driver being pushed out to users by some distro.

[20:20:14]

kormoc:

tgm4883, my point is you're unilaterally picking one failure case and protecting it, ignoring all the others and claiming it's in the interest of the whole

[20:20:36]

tgm4883:

NightMonkey, I would assume someone who uses MythTV to watch shows and a non-developer

[20:20:37]

NightMonkey:

It's just a very Windows-y way to solve a problem. When in doubt, reboot, and all that. Feels foreign when applied in *NIX.

[20:21:13]

tgm4883:

kormoc, no. I'm saying for some cases it makes sense. If it continues to be an issue it shouldn't respawn

[20:21:14]

NightMonkey:

tgm4883: But mythtv isn't a "product". It comes with no warranty.

[20:21:32]

tgm4883:

IMHO, A better solution would be to respawn it and send an email

[20:21:43]

tgm4883:

NightMonkey, WTF does that have to do with anything?

[20:21:48]

NightMonkey:

tgm4883: Language.

[20:21:54]

** tgm4883 sighs **

[20:21:54]

justinh:

sphery: ubuntu 10.04 IIRC

[20:22:04]

kormoc:

tgm4883, and I'm saying some cases it doesn't make sense and that's why folks don't always want it to work that way

[20:22:15]

tgm4883:

NightMonkey, can I take your latest argument and apply it to kormoc

[20:22:21]

justinh:

sphery: cx88-dvb is as old as the hills now.. wouldn't have expected any regressions there

[20:22:57]

NightMonkey:

tgm4883: It's rather hard to make a bug report after the service has been restarting for weeks.

[20:23:04]

sphery:

justinh: did they push out some v4l/kernel update recently?

[20:23:18]

sphery:

could have been the kernel proper, even

[20:23:18]

NightMonkey:

tgm4883: And this being F/OSS, good bug reports are a big part of the picture.

[20:23:38]

sphery:

justinh: also, what's ulimit -n

[20:23:59]

kormoc:

NightMonkey, meh, it's not worth the battle

[20:24:02]

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[20:24:04]

justinh:

sphery: 1024

[20:24:22]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: Yah, true.

[20:24:29]

** NightMonkey is done on that line. **

[20:24:33]

kormoc:

tgm4883, also keep in mind, auto-restarting means auto-rotation of database backups, restart enough and suddenly your backup might be rotated out and then there's no restoring to known good state

[20:24:54]

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[20:25:25]

tgm4883:

kormoc, so just to confirm. your stance is that it is better for users if we block all attempts at restarting the mythbackend process

[20:25:37]

sphery:

justinh: hmmm... pretty standard/default... would be very interesting to see what's changed on your install since it started

[20:25:43]

sphery:

(or just before it started :)

[20:26:00]

kormoc:

tgm4883, now you're just taking it personal....

[20:26:12]

tgm4883:

kormoc, no, I really want to know

[20:26:17]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: I should have stopped when he said he won't talk to "crazy" people.

[20:26:29]

tgm4883:

If we should set a conflicts on all things that auto-restart the backend, just let me know

[20:26:33]

tgm4883:

NightMonkey, go fly a kite

[20:26:44]

kormoc:

tgm4883, my stance is by default, if it crashes, leave it stopped, yes

[20:27:13]

sphery:

haven't been reading that conversation, but I know a /lot/ of users lost auto-backups because of a certain distro's just restarting the backend 100's of times when upgrade was failing

[20:27:17]

NightMonkey:

Done.

[20:27:18]

kenni:

tgm4883, kormoc, NightMonkey: guys, isn't "apport" default in Mythbuntu/ubuntu these days? Doesn't it collect backtrace etc. on crashes and forward it to the Mythbuntu team?

[20:27:20]

tgm4883:

kormoc, great. and taht is your opinion

[20:27:22]

kormoc:

tgm4883, if the user decides to take that risk and auto-restart, allow them, but they should know the risks involved

[20:27:43]

kormoc:

tgm4883, I never claimed otherwise

[20:27:46]

justinh:

my outlook on the restart thing is that the user should have to *choose* to do it. shouldn't be transparent like this

[20:28:18]

kormoc:

tgm4883, you were claiming that this was *the* best way for the users, I was just pointing out plenty of cases where it was the reverse

[20:28:44]

tgm4883:

kormoc, i claim best way for a majority of users

[20:28:49]

** sphery thinks maybe justinh's problem was solved and is related to the other convo (the one sphery didn't read) **

[20:29:28]

kormoc:

tgm4883, and I disagree

[20:29:39]

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[20:30:08]

splashd:

I'm using the Hauppage HD-PVR wih Mythbuntu 10.04, recording 1080i and 720p. WOrks fine, but stores in h.264. I am using ION based frontends and VDPAU. Does anyone have anyone know how to solve an audio lag problem? I suspect it is because of underpowered decoding, but is there a config I can use to make it less overhead intensive to decode H.264?

[20:30:14]

tgm4883:

kormoc, yea, but the stance here is that all users should compile as well. You'll have to excuse me if our opinions differ

[20:30:43]

sphery:

heh, just got to the end of justinh's stuff, and see that the restarting is related

[20:30:54]

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[20:30:58]

kormoc:

tgm4883, that stance only exists due to legal requirements that prohibit us providing binaries

[20:31:06]

wagnerrp:

tgm4883: not quite... the stance here is that all users RUNNING TRUNK should compile as well

[20:31:19]

wagnerrp:

otherwise, users are free to use third party binaries

[20:32:44]

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[20:33:24]

kenni:

I must be missing something, I don't get this discussion of auto-restarting the backend on MythBunt/Ubuntu...if Apport is enabled by default in Mythbuntu, then the user is notified about the crash by the notification system AND gets the option of forwarding relevant logs and backtrace to the Mythbuntu team...if the MythBuntu team forwards the "real" reports upstream, then I really don't see why it's a problem with the backend auto-restarting.

[20:33:36]

iamlindoro:

I am very grateful for the work that mythbuntu folks put into usability/etc. Personally speaking I just instinctually feel like if the backend falls over it should be left there until diagnostic info can be collected

[20:33:59]

iamlindoro:

and I feel that users of packaged trunk who can't apply a patch cause us far more heartache than hurt

[20:34:05]

iamlindoro:

Still appreciate that mythbuntu is there, though :)

[20:34:09]

NightMonkey:

kenni: Not all problems are just "solved" by restarting. In fact, they can be made worse, in some cases.

[20:34:25]

sphery:

kenni: I think the main concern is that restarting when the problem isn't mythbackend is useless--and counter-productive. I.e. repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome is a sure sign...

[20:34:27]

iamlindoro:

er heartache than help

[20:34:57]

wagnerrp:

yeah, dont take anything from here as indicating that mythbuntu isnt very well appreciated

[20:35:13]

kormoc:

kenni, I worry about a failed DB upgrade, every restart re-snapshots the db (the second and more ones are all bad snapshots) and the good one rotates out and thus the user is left with a bad db and no backup

[20:35:15]

wagnerrp:

we just arent too keen on people running the ubuntu trunk builds

[20:35:48]

wagnerrp:

either they run your builds to help debug your builds, or the run source to help debug source

[20:36:11]

sphery:

lowering the bar for running development code seems to put the bar at a level where some users don't do their research

[20:36:12]

kenni:

but still, the user is notified about the crash...it's not like its happening without their knowledge

[20:36:13]

wagnerrp:

its all the people who end up running trunk, who really dont have the knowledge to do so safely

[20:36:23]

kormoc:

kenni, that's not entirely true

[20:36:32]

kenni:

ok?

[20:36:41]

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[20:36:54]

kormoc:

kenni, the backend exits cleanly with a failed DB update, just non-0

[20:36:59]

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[20:37:01]

kormoc:

so the crash reporter never fires

[20:37:06]

kenni:

ahh

[20:37:08]

kormoc:

but it just respawns in a loop

[20:37:13]

kormoc:

rotating out the good data

[20:37:32]

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[20:38:30]

kormoc:

kenni, I'm fine if the users choose to take that risk, I just think it should be communicated to them before being imposed on them, tis all

[20:39:18]

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[20:39:50]

stratagem:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Gyration-based_MCE_Remotes <- The lirc conf example – does this require an IR receiver or will it work over RF?

[20:40:07]

stratagem:

I used xmodmap in the past.

[20:40:09]

wagnerrp:

stratagem: it comes with its own RF receiver

[20:40:24]

stratagem:

the GYR3101?

[20:40:29]

stratagem:

yeah I know

[20:40:30]

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[20:40:35]

sphery:

kormoc: and as long as the users who do choose to take that risk own up when they lose their good DB backup or whatever

[20:40:40]

stratagem:

but does LIRC only handle IR commands?

[20:40:45]

kenni:

kormoc, sure, I missed the "exit cleanly" part, I do follow you

[20:40:49]

kormoc:

sphery, aye

[20:41:55]

stratagem:

wagnerrp: I'm wondering if that lirc.conf example will handle the RF commands and not require an IR receiver

[20:42:50]

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[20:43:01]

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[20:43:18]

apothegm:

wagnerrp: yes, no? maybe?

[20:43:29]

apothegm:

honestly don't have much experience with lirc

[20:43:44]

apothegm:

I'm assuming I can just enable in MCC (mythbuntu) and paste in config

[20:44:41]

wagnerrp:

apothegm: lirc will handle any signals a receiver will send to it, IR, RF, or otherwise

[20:45:03]

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[20:45:03]

apothegm:

gotcha

[20:48:33]

tgm4883:

sorry, paid work :)

[20:49:09]

AndyCap:

apothegm: it uses the dev/input driver so yes, gyration will work as a keyboard/mouse and lirc could handle it for you.

[20:49:10]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, i've tried to keep the trunk builds for the users yet still provide enough warnings for them to actually figure out it's a bad idea

[20:49:30]

apothegm:

alright, I pasted in the lircd.conf. just a matter of restarting the lirc daemon?

[20:49:45]

tgm4883:

is there something I can do that would make upstream happy and still keep the builds? A middle ground?

[20:50:02]

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[20:50:14]

wagnerrp:

tgm4883: i know, you put warnings all over the place, and thats all we can expect you to do

[20:50:18]

tgm4883:

kenni, apport only sends crash information if the user says to send it

[20:50:26]

wagnerrp:

its more frustration on our part because there is no better solution

[20:50:30]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, well, I have one more idea for it

[20:50:54]

tgm4883:

it still wouldn't prevent people from googling the answer, but I could require a password to add it via MCC

[20:51:21]

tgm4883:

Don't know if that would help any, i just came up with it

[20:51:43]

wagnerrp:

sounds like the token we put into the backend protocol

[20:52:29]

tgm4883:

well, the password would be a blanket password. something like "IAcknowledgeThisCouldBreakMyMythTVBox"

[20:52:31]

wagnerrp:

serves no real purpose but to ensure that someone somewhere has been reading the commits

[20:52:41]

tgm4883:

yea very similar

[20:55:41]

iamlindoro:

apport *sucks*

[20:55:57]

iamlindoro:

reading backtraces forwarded from ubuntuland is like punching myself in the face

[20:56:10]

kormoc:

With a spork

[20:56:29]

iamlindoro:

Which is definitively *not* Mythbuntu's fault... but it still sucks :)

[20:56:59]

iamlindoro:

The backtraces are incomplete, they don't give you info on the context or what type of signal the process crashed on, etc.

[20:57:52]

apothegm:

under the Infrared config in MCC, should I set the "Enabled a Remote Control" dropdown to "linux input layer (/dev/input/eventX"?

[20:58:33]

kormoc:

tgm4883, can you at least not strip the -trunk binaries/libs and install -debug versions of the packages?

[20:58:38]

kormoc:

that'd help *a lot*

[20:58:56]

kormoc:

(assuming -debug is the gdb info)

[20:59:49]

tgm4883:

kormoc, I'll discuss with superm1 and see what we can do

[20:59:53]

tgm4883:

that is just for trunk?

[20:59:59]

kormoc:

yeah

[21:00:02]

tgm4883:

ok, thanks

[21:00:17]

kenni:

tgm4883: I friend called me yesterday to ask me if it was safe for him to upgrade to 0.24...he just ran the mythbuntu-repos reconfigure thing and had the option to select between 0.23, 0.23.1 and 0.24...apparently he didn't read the warnings elsewhere on the page, he just read the three available versions and thought that 0.24 was a stable version. I think this is a common problem, perhaps you should extend the "0.24" selection to include a wa

[21:00:18]

kormoc:

it's help a lot with debugging and should give us usable backtraces

[21:00:45]

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[21:00:50]

tgm4883:

kenni, they get 2 pages of warning only if they select 0.24

[21:01:28]

kenni:

tgm4883, true, but he still didn't get it...Windows users click on the "Next" button if one is available

[21:01:35]

tgm4883:

Only thing I could add to that would be for the user to have to hunt for a way to actually activate 0.24 via a password or something

[21:03:06]

kenni:

a password could also be a solution, but changing 0.24 (which doesn't exist) into something else, would be an obvious thing to fix first, IMHO

[21:03:17]

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[21:03:39]

kormoc:

the warnings are enough imho

[21:04:02]

tgm4883:

kenni, I really don't want to do that

[21:04:37]

NightMonkey:

0.24-unsupported?

[21:04:55]

kenni:

NightMonkey, something like that

[21:05:01]

mtrax:

hi can I ask what the status of the next release 0.24 , is it stable , at what point should I upgrade for a production system

[21:05:03]

kenni:

or 0.24-development

[21:05:10]

kenni:

LOL

[21:05:25]

tgm4883:

well the issue is I have to touch the package when 0.24 gets released then

[21:05:37]

kenni:

mtrax: take 0.23.1 for now

[21:05:51]

tgm4883:

let me play with the code a bit and see what I can come up with

[21:06:05]

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[21:06:16]

mtrax:

ok thanks the reason I ask is I'm hoping the 0.24 fixes some audio issues I've been getting..

[21:06:33]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: What are your audio issues?

[21:06:49]

mtrax:

buffer issues causing A/V sync

[21:07:08]

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[21:07:21]

mtrax:

eg prebuffing and writeaudio msgs

[21:07:49]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: Is your system pretty taxed, resource-wise, when these messages appear?

[21:07:53]

mtrax:

note I've tried all the advice.. and nothing changed

[21:08:17]

mtrax:

CPU normally sits around 20% or less with VDPAU

[21:08:43]

mtrax:

memory not an issue either 2gb ram not fully used

[21:09:03]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: What's your encoding method and hardware?

[21:09:30]

mtrax:

DVB-T in Aust. CPU is a AMD 3200

[21:09:54]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: not going to let us just ship without pulseaudio support?

[21:10:12]

Beirdo:

it was classed as a blocker in the ML

[21:10:13]

NightMonkey:

Hrm. Do you have a card to handle DVB-T?

[21:10:26]

Beirdo:

we need to fix it or rip out chunks. :)

[21:10:49]

mtrax:

as far as I know the DVB (mpeg2) so it streams straight to disk

[21:11:13]

mtrax:

so my cards a DVB-T tuners

[21:12:04]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: But how is the stream getting into your computer?

[21:12:09]

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[21:12:19]

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[21:12:21]

mtrax:

one example which proves the problem is mythtv related , try to play a music CD and it getts buffer issues

[21:12:24]

tgm4883:

kormoc, I'm told we already leave that for trunk

[21:12:32]

kormoc:

hrm

[21:12:50]

tgm4883:

mythtv-dbg and mythplugins-dbg

[21:12:56]

kormoc:

fair 'nuff

[21:12:57]

tgm4883:

they get installed with trunk

[21:13:05]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: either way, we can't release with pulseaudio disabling crashing the frontend

[21:13:05]

kormoc:

not sure why the backtraces would be so bad then

[21:13:18]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: No argument from me that you're having troubles. :)

[21:13:19]

mtrax:

I know that JVA has re-written the audio component so thinking this might improve my situation alot

[21:14:39]

mtrax:

so just hanging out for 0.24 to hopefully resolve this issues which appear after 0.22 or 0.23

[21:15:20]

mtrax:

hence my interest in the stability of 24

[21:15:36]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: Do other folks with your hardware have the same issue?

[21:16:12]

mtrax:

some , perhaps it has something to do with my audio card

[21:16:34]

mtrax:

but definately the cd-music shows the current issue

[21:17:32]

NightMonkey:

Does mythaudio share the same playback code as the mythtv core? I recently had a hiccup where I got no sound on recordings playback, but *did* have sound on MythMusic.

[21:17:51]

wagnerrp:

mythaudio?

[21:18:23]

wagnerrp:

no, mythmusic accesses the sound system independently of nuppelvideoplayer

[21:18:23]

mtrax:

afaik the music plugin is core audio code

[21:19:16]

mtrax:

I suspect no-one actually plays music directly from Disc these days..

[21:19:27]

jams:

you are wrong

[21:19:42]

mtrax:

and yours works ok?

[21:19:56]

jams:

yeah but it's still on .21

[21:20:04]

mtrax:

ahhh..

[21:20:12]

jams:

mostly because i don't want to deal with those issues

[21:20:52]

mtrax:

I'd be interest if someone can confirm if 24 resolves playback of CD disc ok

[21:21:17]

mtrax:

mainly as indicate of buffer issues

[21:22:22]

apothegm:

how do you restart lirc once you've changed the lircd.conf and hardware.conf files?

[21:22:41]

wagnerrp:

with your distro provided init scripts

[21:23:00]

mtrax:

one more related question if someone knows the answer.. I have a friend with a mythtv setup who has hdmi connected gets audio , he has got pulseaudio

[21:23:09]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: 0.24 is not released yet.

[21:23:17]

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[21:23:18]

mtrax:

so is this required for hdmi support

[21:23:31]

mtrax:

0.24 is close right?

[21:23:43]

wagnerrp:

its waiting on a couple blockers

[21:23:48]

wagnerrp:

why does he want to use pulseaudio?

[21:24:10]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: I'd say since two independent parts of myth show trouble on audio playback (in that they don't share code), the problem may be elsewhere. How does mplayer playback fair?

[21:24:14]

mtrax:

default , which I havent removed when I installed F11 system

[21:24:19]

apothegm:

wagnerrp: anything I can use to make sure lirc is receiving input from my remote?

[21:24:27]

mtrax:

mplayer works 100%

[21:24:27]

wagnerrp:

`irw`

[21:25:03]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: And when it plays back recorded files, is the audio in-sync?

[21:25:05]

apothegm:

what package is in that in?

[21:25:12]

NightMonkey:

it being mplayer

[21:25:18]

wagnerrp:

its included with lirc

[21:25:36]

mtrax:

yes as far as I can tell mplayer is all in sync

[21:25:40]

apothegm:

I have mythbuntu 10.04 installed. pretty fresh copy. irw does nothing from console

[21:26:16]

mtrax:

note my sync issues is not all shows just some recordings.. and not all the time, but regualar enough

[21:26:40]

apothegm:

hmm, I see it in /usr/bin/irw

[21:26:57]

mtrax:

what component are the 24 blockers?

[21:27:00]

GrahamIRC:

evening all, I wonder if anyone can help with a quick question? Is there a way to make the mythplayer select the default subtitle track?

[21:27:02]

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[21:27:47]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: Does it seem to correlate with higher-resolution recordings?

[21:28:20]

mtrax:

not sure, I presume I would need to find that out using nuvinfo?

[21:28:39]

apothegm:

I don't get it? it just says no such file or directory when it's clearly there.

[21:29:05]

GrahamIRC:

it may be talking about the IR device

[21:29:59]

apothegm:

ah yes.

[21:30:10]

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[21:30:11]

apothegm:

irw --help says it needs a socket

[21:30:12]

GrahamIRC:

do a "ls -l /dev/lirc*"

[21:30:38]

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[21:30:47]

GrahamIRC:

you should have a lirc0 and a lircd and prob a symlink to lirc0 called lirc

[21:32:03]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: midentify might be easier.

[21:32:32]

apothegm:

nope. I used /dev/input/by-id/usb-Gyration_Gyration_RF_Technology_Receiver-event-kbd in hardware.conf

[21:32:50]

apothegm:

I just tried "sudo irw /dev/input/by-id/usb-Gyration_Gyration_RF_Technology_Receiver-event-kbd" and I got connection refused

[21:34:12]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: Something like "midentify *.mpg | grep -H ID_VIDEO_BITRATE"

[21:34:17]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: Or better yet...

[21:34:35]

mtrax:

I don;t have that command on my f12 system

[21:34:41]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: cd <your video recordings>; for f in `ls *.mpg`; do echo -n "$f:"; midentify $f | grep ID_VIDEO_BITRATE; done

[21:34:46]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: Oh.

[21:35:03]

NightMonkey:

Should be included with mplayer.

[21:36:18]

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[21:36:54]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: It should be in /usr/share/docs/mplayer-<...>/TOOLS/ or wherever Fedora puts things these days.

[21:37:38]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: As midentify.sh.

[21:38:04]

mtrax:

I have the atrpms mplayer package and tool isn't in there

[21:38:12]

Spyder:

Hello all, I've been having a problem with mythtv and lirc. I'm using a hauppauge pvr 500, video on /dev/video1. I have a channel change script that if I run manually changes the channel once, however mythtv continually tries to change the channel over and over again. I'm running ubuntu 10.10 and I seem to have this issue all the time and manage to solve it accidentally. Anyone have an idea what causes this?

[21:38:41]

NightMonkey:

Sad. Well, that's just a wrapper to pretty-fy the mplayer output and set it to not actually play back the file.

[21:40:18]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: Uglier, but it'll work:

[21:40:40]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: cd <your video recordings>; for f in `ls *.mpg`; do echo -n "$f:"; mplayer -vo null -ao null -frames 0 -identify $f 2>/dev/null | grep ID_VIDEO_BITRATE; done

[21:42:07]

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[21:42:37]

mtrax:

1005_20100823235900.mpg:ID_VIDEO_BITRATE=15000000 1005_20100902192800.mpg:ID_VIDEO_BITRATE=15000000 1005_20100909213000.mpg:ID_VIDEO_BITRATE=15000000 1005_20100914192900.mpg:ID_VIDEO_BITRATE=15000000 1005_20100923192800.mpg:ID_VIDEO_BITRATE=6000000 1005_20100923213000.mpg:ID_VIDEO_BITRATE=6000000 1005_

[21:43:20]

iamlindoro:

That's the listed container bitrate

[21:43:23]

iamlindoro:

it's meaningless

[21:43:24]

mtrax:

most are either : 1005_20100902192800.mpg:ID_VIDEO_BITRATE=15000000

[21:43:31]

iamlindoro:

Doesn't mean anything

[21:43:48]

iamlindoro:

I haven't been reading the context, but the output of that command is without any informational value whatsoever

[21:43:50]

NightMonkey:

iamlindoro: What would be more meaningful?

[21:43:59]

iamlindoro:

The stream bitrate

[21:44:07]

apothegm:

I'm stumped. where do I go tfrom "connection refused" when testing with IRW?

[21:44:32]

mtrax:

that means lircd has died

[21:44:48]

mtrax:

or your pointing to wrong lirc device

[21:44:58]

NightMonkey:

iamlindoro: I'm trying to isolate trouble mtrax is having with audio sync and buffering issues, and "hoped" that it might be associated with higher-bitrate files.

[21:45:14]

iamlindoro:

And I'm sorry, let me correct myself that that's giving the "hardcoded" stream bitrate, and you want the overall container bitrate

[21:45:37]

iamlindoro:

ffmpeg -i filename

[21:45:54]

iamlindoro:

the "bitrate:" line will give an accurate average file bitrate

[21:45:57]

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[21:46:02]

iamlindoro:

eg Duration: 00:43:03.56, start: 0.369967, bitrate: 12042 kb/s

[21:46:05]

GrahamIRC:

apothgem – you say you're using a keyboard device?

[21:46:07]

apothegm:

mtrax: ls -l /dev/input/by-id/ is showing me the exact device.

[21:46:24]

apothegm:

GrahamIRC: no, a Gyration GYR3101 – remote

[21:46:27]

Spyder:

hmm incase it was a tl;dr, livetv causes mythtv to continually change channels using an irsend script

[21:47:12]

NightMonkey:

iamlindoro: Now I'll need some awking with that mess.

[21:47:32]

iamlindoro:

or just use the old two eye approach ;)

[21:47:52]

GrahamIRC:

some remotes emulate a keyboard and mouse, like the speedlink sl-6399 that I use

[21:47:53]

NightMonkey:

iamlindoro: Oh, sure, but I was hoping to get an average from him.

[21:48:00]

GrahamIRC:

looks like yours might too

[21:48:26]

apothegm:

probably. It is listed as KBD – which I assume means keyboard device

[21:48:41]

mtrax:

fyi buffer msgs

[21:48:41]

GrahamIRC:

you could try using the linux input layer driver...

[21:48:43]

apothegm:

so IRW won't work?

[21:48:55]

mtrax:

2010-10–03 20:21:29.908 NVP(c): prebuffering pause

[21:49:01]

GrahamIRC:

copy this file to /etc/lircd.conf http://linux.bytesex.org/v4l2/linux-input-layer-lircd.conf

[21:49:03]

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[21:49:05]

mtrax:

2010-10–03 21:01:39.692 WriteAudio: buffer underrun

[21:49:35]

iamlindoro:

for what it is worth, there are many audio code deficiencies in .23 that cause buffer underruns

[21:49:35]

iamlindoro:

t

[21:49:35]

iamlindoro:

h

[21:49:36]

iamlindoro:

e

[21:49:36]

iamlindoro:

y

[21:49:37]

apothegm:

GrahamIRC: won't the mappings need to be different for my remote?

[21:49:39]

iamlindoro:

whoops

[21:49:48]

iamlindoro:

They are far less prevalent in what will be .24, out in a few weeks

[21:49:55]

mtrax:

yes agreed

[21:49:57]

GrahamIRC:

stop lircd and restart using the following command: lircd -H dev/input -d /dev/input/by-id/usb-....etc.....

[21:50:09]

iamlindoro:

agreed?

[21:50:13]

GrahamIRC:

and then try irw

[21:50:15]

iamlindoro:

Are you using trunk?

[21:50:33]

iamlindoro:

mtrax: ^

[21:50:36]

mtrax:

no I'm using the atrpms 0.23 package

[21:50:53]

iamlindoro:

Then how can you agree about the state of the audio code in what will be .24?

[21:51:09]

mtrax:

and I think I will wait a few weeks to see if 0.24 resolves my issues

[21:51:12]

GrahamIRC:

give it a go apothgem

[21:51:19]

iamlindoro:

yes, that may be wise

[21:51:28]

GrahamIRC:

apothegm even

[21:51:33]

iamlindoro:

especially since you probably won't get a lot of dev help on audio code in .23 now, for better or worse

[21:52:18]

mtrax:

yep, regarding hdmi audio does any use that here?

[21:52:19]

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[21:52:52]

NightMonkey:

Jesus.

[21:52:55]

NightMonkey:

for f in `ls *.mpg`; do echo -n "$f:"; ffmpeg -i "$f" 2>/dev/null 2>&1 | grep bitrate | awk '{ print $6, $7 };'; done

[21:53:35]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: That'll give you an idea, and maybe try to see if there is some correlation between higher bitrates and your playback troubles.

[21:53:46]

apothegm:

when I run "sudo lircd -H devinput -d /dev/input/by-id/usb-Gyration_Gyration_RF_Technology_Receiver-event-kbd" I get "lircd: can't open or create /var/run/lirc/lircd.pid" and "lircd: No such file or directory"

[21:53:52]

sphery:

NightMonkey: that a comment on the unnecessariness of `ls *.mpg` in there?

[21:53:59]

GrahamIRC:

apothegm, if that works for you then just add the line below to /etc/sysconfig/lirc to make it work next time you start lircd:

[21:53:59]

GrahamIRC:

LIRCD_OPTIONS="-H dev/input -d /dev/input/by-id/usb-....etc.....

[21:54:19]

GrahamIRC:

are you logged in or su'd to root?

[21:54:31]

mtrax:

nightmonkey, thanks for that, but I think the best option is to wait a few weeks and try out 0.24 as I pretty sure it will go a fair way to improve audio buffer probs

[21:54:50]

mtrax:

at least I will get the new bugs :)

[21:54:55]

apothegm:

what the heck is the su password for a mythbuntu install anyway?

[21:55:02]

apothegm:

but I'm definitely using SUDO

[21:55:15]

NightMonkey:

mtrax: Well, when you find you are still favced with the same problem after you ugrade... remember that.

[21:55:16]

GrahamIRC:

no idea, I'm a fedora/centos bod most of the time

[21:55:30]

mtrax:

ok cheers

[21:55:52]

apothegm:

maybe lirc isn't isntalled correctly? shrug

[21:55:55]

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[21:56:02]

GrahamIRC:

well what can I say apothegm, sounds like a rights issue to me – solve that and the linux input driver should work a treat

[21:56:21]

apothegm:

I can sudo anything else.

[21:56:31]

apothegm:

sudo nano /etc/lirc/hardware.conf etc.

[21:56:31]

NightMonkey:

sphery: Ah, you're right. I took it out in my version that I'm keeping all to myself. ;)

[21:56:43]

GrahamIRC:

sorry, cant help with ubuntu – time to google

[21:57:13]

sphery:

NightMonkey: ah, I thought you were commenting on the loop construction or something... guess I missed the context

[21:57:28]

mtrax:

not sometimes the kernal log when device initialise it shows the device # for lirc as a device I had changed so I had to use a udev rule to set an symlink dev

[21:58:00]

apothegm:

GrahamIRC: bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lirc/+bug/474701

[21:58:23]

NightMonkey:

sphery: That was a hack by a non-coder sysadmin, meaning me. I'm lucky it even parses.

[21:58:30]

GrahamIRC:

sorry dont have time to read that and no desire to learn about ubuntu bugs

[21:58:55]

mtrax:

thanks all, work time now..bye

[21:58:57]

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[21:59:15]

apothegm:

heh, I understand. thanks for your help.

[21:59:39]

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[21:59:39]

apothegm:

my buddy keeps telling me to drop ubuntu, and setup mythtv in arch

[21:59:49]

sphery:

NightMonkey: yeah, it's actually fine... just a little redundant. I just couldn't understand the comment coming on the line before it without trying to find some problem with the loop

[21:59:50]

GrahamIRC:

no worries – I'm pretty sure you need to use the linux input driver as it looks like your remote presents as a keyboard and mouse

[22:00:34]

Spyder:

anyone aware of what would cause mythtv to continually call the channel change script?

[22:00:44]

GrahamIRC:

the best distribution I've used is CentOS, just because it has such a long shelf life – my current system has been running non-stop for years and has grown without problem from myth 0.19 to 0.23

[22:00:53]

NightMonkey:

sphery: Heh. It was a comment on how hard it was to dredge up memories of awk. (which I should make more current)

[22:01:04]

sphery:

ohhh

[22:01:05]

Criggie:

http://erkie.github.com/

[22:01:08]

sphery:

that I understand

[22:01:09]

Criggie:

TOTALLY off topic

[22:01:22]

GrahamIRC:

I'm eagerly awaiting the release of CentOS 6 so I can get some kernel support for some new hardware

[22:01:22]

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[22:02:01]

apothegm:

might just do xmodmap like I did before

[22:02:13]

justinh:

haha now there's a turn up... mythweb said one of the failed recordings was still in progress

[22:02:29]

NightMonkey:

sphery: I do like critiques, tho. Thanks.

[22:02:39]

justinh:

methinks I might have to try deleting my tuners & configuring them again tomorrow

[22:02:58]

Criggie:

GrahamIRC: me too – 2.6.19 is getting a helluva tired.

[22:03:30]

GrahamIRC:

I could get addicted to that Criggie

[22:04:12]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: Gentoo has been the same for me and myth, since 2004 and mythtv 0.15.1.

[22:04:38]

GrahamIRC:

I couldn't get on with Gentoo – too much compiling!

[22:07:28]

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[22:09:09]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: But CentOS is probably a lot less administratively intensive.

[22:09:09]

apothegm:

I don't see ads to begin with :)

[22:09:09]

GrahamIRC:

lol indeed

[22:09:09]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: Yeah, that's what everyone complains about. :)

[22:09:10]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: But I don't care, personally, about compiling, since the computer is doing the work, not me. :)

[22:09:10]

GrahamIRC:

CentOS 5 is stil 2.6.18 Criggie

[22:09:10]

Criggie:

GrahamIRC: yeah sorry – typo

[22:09:10]

GrahamIRC:

and I need something a bit more recent to support my NOVA-HD2 card

[22:09:10]

GrahamIRC:

so it's sat in a Fedora 13 test box at the moment, but fedora has such a short shelf life

[22:09:10]

GrahamIRC:

ah well, CentOS 6 by the end of the year hopefully

[22:09:10]

GrahamIRC:

I think it's almost in beta isn't it?

[22:09:11]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: Doesn't CentOS 5 have some other repos that do have more recent kernels, tho?

[22:09:11]

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[22:09:11]

GrahamIRC:

quite possibly, but I try to keep the repos to a minimum

[22:09:11]

NightMonkey:

Or is that the crack talking again?

[22:09:11]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: Ah, wise.

[22:09:11]

GrahamIRC:

i.e. CentOS and ATRPMS

[22:09:11]

GrahamIRC:

lol, does your crack talk? don't answer that!

[22:09:11]

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[22:09:56]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: I had good luck with the DAG RPMS and SmartPM.

[22:10:11]

GrahamIRC:

not heard of SmartPM

[22:10:24]

GrahamIRC:

and DAG is missing libdvdcss I think

[22:10:29]

apothegm:

what package has udevinfo?

[22:10:31]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: http://labix.org/smart

[22:10:55]

GrahamIRC:

ah ok

[22:11:43]

GrahamIRC:

I'll have a play with that

[22:11:50]

** Beirdo makes his crack talk... Ace Ventura-style **

[22:11:56]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: It's kinda... fun?

[22:12:31]

GrahamIRC:

I don't do a lot else with my MythTV box so I can keep it fairly clean

[22:13:10]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: Yeah, you might want to play with that stuff in a VM or on a less-dependency-sensitive machine.

[22:13:24]

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[22:14:12]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: But most video stuff in Linux is really never "stable" anyhow, and in actual function can be more unstable when you mix older stuff with newer stuff.

[22:15:02]

NightMonkey:

(Like an old kernel with a new udev and a new mplayer, or similar mixes)

[22:15:44]

GrahamIRC:

cant say I ever really had any problems with myth on centos

[22:15:55]

Criggie:

yeah – debian rocks for that.... kernel 2.2 is pretty damn stable

[22:16:02]

Criggie:

don't trust that xorg shit yet

[22:16:12]

Criggie:

xfree86 is rock solid

[22:16:13]

Beirdo:

!trout Criggie language

[22:16:13]

** MythLogBot slaps Criggie with a language trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[22:16:15]

Criggie:

:-p

[22:16:15]

GrahamIRC:

apart from the one I have right now havin just done an update which has broken tmdb.py

[22:16:21]

GrahamIRC:

no idea why!

[22:16:24]

Criggie:

oh yeah

[22:16:29]

Criggie:

Beirdo: sorry

[22:16:47]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: But you're having problems with new hardware... right?

[22:17:10]

GrahamIRC:

lack of kernel support in 2.6.18, yes

[22:17:31]

GrahamIRC:

it's there after 2.6.23 I think

[22:18:12]

Spyder:

what would cause mythtv to continually call the channel change script?

[22:18:35]

GrahamIRC:

have you sat on the remote?

[22:18:38]

NightMonkey:

GrahamIRC: Wow, they really use a 4 year old kernel?

[22:19:12]

GrahamIRC:

CentOS?

[22:19:21]

Spyder:

GrahamIRC, no. The remote is not being sat on. Nor are there mischievous kittens playing with it.

[22:19:38]

GrahamIRC:

that's my second suggestion gone then

[22:19:46]

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[22:20:10]

NightMonkey:

Spyder: What's in the backend's log?

[22:20:24]

NightMonkey:

Spyder: Pastebin it, please.

[22:20:37]

Spyder:

1 sec lemme re run it

[22:20:39]

NightMonkey:

Spyder: (with the last few days worth only)

[22:20:47]

Spyder:

fresh install so its only todays

[22:21:28]

NightMonkey:

Spyder: Cool.

[22:22:02]

NightMonkey:

Spyder: You might also check dmesg to see if there's anything going on there.

[22:22:36]

Spyder:

bleh pastebin.ca is still having issues

[22:23:15]

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[22:23:41]

Spyder:

actually give me a minute, I'm not sure why its complaining about invalid mysql credentials

[22:24:18]

NightMonkey:

Spyder: http://wgetpaste.zlin.dk/

[22:24:21]

NightMonkey:

Spyder: Ah.

[22:24:37]

Spyder:

I think its just because I have the backend shut down right now but I want to make sure

[22:25:33]

NightMonkey:

Time to build some Ikea furniture...bleh. BBL.

[22:26:41]

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[22:28:21]

NightMonkey:

Oh, hey. anyone have experience with the Optoma HD20? Like, Love, Hate, Meh?

[22:34:51]

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[22:35:35]

apothegm:

GrahamIRC: found a bug remote suggesting I create lirc inside /var/run and now lircd -H -d runs with no errors. but IRW still says connection refused. and doesn't work in frontend still

[22:37:14]

GrahamIRC:

after running lircd -H ...etc... have you checked to see if it is still running? Did you stop it before running it again?

[22:37:31]

apothegm:

yup

[22:37:47]

GrahamIRC:

out of ideas then I'm afraid

[22:37:59]

apothegm:

how do I "check to see if it's runnin"?

[22:38:02]

GrahamIRC:

you copied that file to /etc/lircd.conf

[22:38:10]

GrahamIRC:

ps -fax | grep lirc

[22:38:33]

apothegm:

yup it's running

[22:39:09]

apothegm:

I don't have lirc.conf under /etc/. It's only under /etc/lirc/

[22:40:47]

GrahamIRC:

ok, but you copied this file to it? http://linux.bytesex.org/v4l2/linux-input-layer-lircd.conf

[22:44:25]

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[22:45:46]

GrahamIRC:

needs to be copied to lircd.conf not lirc.conf

[22:45:46]

GrahamIRC:

I dont know where ubuntu likes to keep that file so try copying it to both /etc/ and /etc/lirc/

[22:45:47]

apothegm:

yeah sorry, it's lircd.conf

[22:45:47]

apothegm:

I tried that too :)

[22:45:47]

Spyder:

interesting, i actually have two backends running. One as the mythtv user, another as myself

[22:45:47]

apothegm:

GrahamIRC: I'm using the lircd.conf from the wiki article specific to my remote

[22:45:47]

GrahamIRC:

well I suggest you try the one above – it's for use will all remotes that present themselves as keyboard and mouse and the device you mentioned appears to be a keyboard device

[22:45:47]

apothegm:

alright, let me wget

[22:45:47]

GrahamIRC:

!

[22:46:15]

GrahamIRC:

does anyone know why tmdb.py has stopped working after a yum update?

[22:46:38]

GrahamIRC:

I have a *feeling* it might be to do with python versions on CentOS 5?

[22:46:57]

apothegm:

does it mater if the frontend is started or not?

[22:47:09]

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[22:47:19]

GrahamIRC:

even just running ./tmdb.py -v gives me an Invalid Syntax error

[22:47:24]

GrahamIRC:

no apothegm

[22:49:17]

Saviq:

GrahamIRC: python -V?

[22:49:50]

GrahamIRC:

no same thing

[22:50:07]

GrahamIRC:

oh sorry, hang on....

[22:50:15]

apothegm:

no luck with that lircd.conf

[22:50:16]

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[22:50:22]

GrahamIRC:

2.4.3 Saviq

[22:50:29]

apothegm:

after doing sudo service lirc restart

[22:50:47]

Saviq:

GrahamIRC: that would probably be it... 2.4 is _ancient_

[22:51:00]

GrahamIRC:

try stopping lirc and using the command line I gave you earlier apothegm

[22:51:02]

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[22:51:06]

iamlindoro:

Myth's python bindings require python 2.5+

[22:51:06]

GrahamIRC:

I know, lol

[22:51:12]

iamlindoro:

using 2.4 is not an option

[22:51:21]

GrahamIRC:

but it has been working until this last update

[22:51:32]

GrahamIRC:

I so need CentOS6 now!

[22:51:42]

iamlindoro:

I don't know what you updated from, or to, but tmdb.py had never worked with python 2.4

[22:52:58]

GrahamIRC:

I copied a lot of the site-packages to a python2.6 directory before and that was enough to fool it previously

[22:54:05]

GrahamIRC:

I also have python26–2.6.5–3 installed

[22:54:30]

Spyder:

figured out the problem. Bad command in the channel change script was causing irsend to fail

[22:54:54]

GrahamIRC:

hmm guess I need to tell it to use that python – can I add a line to tmdb.py to get it to use the 2.6 I have installed?

[22:55:11]

apothegm:

GrahamIRC: no luck. ircd -H -d ...etc seems to run fine without error, and I see the /var/run/lirc/lircd.pid created, but nothing in the frontend changes and IRW still says connect refused

[22:55:40]

GrahamIRC:

do you have a /dev/lirc ??

[22:56:50]

apothegm:

nope

[22:57:21]

apothegm:

no /dev/lirc and no /dev/lirc0

[22:57:48]

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[22:58:45]

iamlindoro:

GrahamIRC, I believe some CentOS users have hardcoded the python binary line at the top of the scripts in the past to make them work against unusual python install locations

[22:59:04]

iamlindoro:

GrahamIRC, I do not know how that is accomplished otherwise, or whether any other parts of the bindings might need the same treatment

[23:02:08]

GrahamIRC:

I just stuck a #! /usr/bin/python26 in and that seems to have done it :-)

[23:02:41]

GrahamIRC:

hmmm not sure what's going on there apothegm – perhaps you need to look through some log files for clus

[23:02:52]

GrahamIRC:

*clues

[23:03:29]

GrahamIRC:

right, I'm a happy myth bunny again, so time for bed!

[23:03:43]

GrahamIRC:

thanks for the pointer iamlindoro

[23:03:49]

iamlindoro:

np

[23:03:54]

GrahamIRC:

no pun intended

[23:04:20]

GrahamIRC:

good luck apothegm

[23:04:33]

apothegm:

thanks for the help.

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[23:10:58]

** iamlindoro adopts sphery's "prove it's a myth bug" approach on #9055. **

[23:11:48]

iamlindoro:

I mean really, how much time *should* we waste when there's no indication that Myth code is at issue at all?

[23:12:04]

sphery:

agreed

[23:12:39]

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iamlindoro:

J-e-f-f-A, ping

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[23:40:23]

wagnerrp:

uh oh... im violating patent #6163776

[23:50:11]

Criggie:

awesome

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[23:56:49]

Beirdo:

that reminds me... I need to make mythlcdserver DO something on my dev box

[23:57:38]

Beirdo:

I have the LCD (well, VFD, technically) in there, but nothing useful going to it from myth

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Beirdo:

my new frontend box is slated to get one too (in a couple weeks or so)

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