Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, September 20th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:55]

sphery:

knightr: could you just have them use svn diff path/to/file/to/keep ?

[00:01:28]

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[00:01:31]

sphery:

or svn diff path/to/file/to/keep path/to/other/file/to/keep

[00:01:36]

sphery:

and so on

[00:01:59]

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[00:03:03]

knightr:

sphery: I wanted to make it easier for them to do it but you are right, that would definitely work and it's more or less what we currently ask them to do for the other translation files anyway...

[00:04:01]

sphery:

well, you know the script and the process best, so between Beirdo's and my approaches, maybe you can come up with something easy for them

[00:04:59]

Beirdo:

yup :)

[00:05:24]

Beirdo:

I need more sleep :)

[00:06:18]

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[00:06:18]

knightr:

sphery, Beirdo: Best thing would be to make a script for them but the only problem is that MythWeb translation files don't following the same name nomenclature as the rest...

[00:06:52]

sphery:

Beirdo: or more Belgian beer

[00:07:15]

Beirdo:

yeah, no kidding.

[00:07:20]

knightr:

Beirdo: Me too, barely slept last week because of some problems we had at work...

[00:07:41]

knightr:

sphery: BTW, the deployment I told you about it went bad, pretty bad...

[00:08:50]

sphery:

knightr: but I hear your side went well :)

[00:08:50]

knightr:

sphery: the guy who merged the code merged code which had not been correctly tested with the stuff we were putting on our production systems..

[00:09:02]

sphery:

oooh

[00:09:04]

sphery:

not good

[00:09:20]

Beirdo:

oh wow, that sounds familiar

[00:10:05]

knightr:

sphery: yep, both deployments but I was also the guy on call for that deployment...

[00:10:19]

sphery:

fun.

[00:11:55]

knightr:

seems like the guy did not realize that the code he merge on trunk earlier and which hadn't been tested would not magically disappear from there... (we do it differently from Myth... Trunk is supposed to be stable code...)

[00:13:06]

Beirdo:

yeah... sometimes I wish we did it that way for myth

[00:13:19]

knightr:

my boss think that guy saved us when he found a way to make it work anyway but he doesn't know he is actually the reason we had that problem...

[00:14:08]

knightr:

(I prefer to just STFU instead of telling him the truth...)

[00:14:48]

knightr:

Beirdo: Both methods have their advantage...

[00:14:53]

kisak:

I suppose you just need to keep an eye out for a repeat mistake

[00:15:28]

Beirdo:

yeah, both ways can work

[00:15:29]

knightr:

not sure the guy learned from his mistake so it's bound to happen again...

[00:16:22]

knightr:

(and that guy is our team leader)

[00:17:11]

knightr:

(not a regular employee though, he's a consultant...)

[00:18:18]

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[00:18:36]

knightr:

we are developing an application in a language we are not yet quite used to and we are short on staff so they had to hire external help...)

[00:18:37]

Beirdo:

it just keeps getting better

[00:19:57]

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[00:20:18]

knightr:

Beirdo: I have nothing against consultant (or regular employees for that matter) as long as they do their job correctly... The guy is in a position to put us into trouble and he doesn't seem to have realized what he did and how to avoid it in the future...

[00:20:34]

Beirdo:

yeah

[00:20:34]

knightr:

oops, consultants (forgot the s...)

[00:20:47]

Beirdo:

oooh, Amazon finally shipped my DVD-RW drive

[00:21:05]

Beirdo:

doubt it will be here tomorrow, but that is what they estimate, which would be cool

[00:22:52]

knightr:

Beirdo: problem is my boss think consultant are a hundred times better than regular employees and that they have nothing to learn from us, only us from them... The guy never did that job before and doesn't quite know how to do it...

[00:23:13]

wagnerrp:

because you just burn oh so many DVDs

[00:23:21]

knightr:

Beirdo: When Amazon (dot CA though) ships here I get it the next day...

[00:24:06]

Beirdo:

well, it depends wehre it ships from

[00:24:17]

GreyFoxx:

knight: yeah.. I've ordered stuff at 11pm at night and it was literally inside my door at 8am when I was headingout to go to work the next morning

[00:24:28]

Beirdo:

Amazon has a LOT of warehouses now, and I selected 2-day (free with prime)

[00:24:39]

Beirdo:

although the drive is IN Seattle

[00:24:56]

iamlindoro is now known as iamlindoro__

[00:25:05]

Beirdo:

which means that it's less than a mile from me, in all likelihood

[00:25:07]

iamlindoro__ is now known as iamlindoro

[00:25:57]

knightr:

Beirdo: I think that in my case it always ships from Ontario and I'm pretty close from Montreal...

[00:26:05]

Beirdo:

yeah.

[00:26:43]

Beirdo:

since this is shipping from Seattle to Seattle and I can almost see the warehouse... I'm pretty sure that it will be here tomorrow

[00:27:00]

knightr:

Beirdo: They ship UPS (no signature needed though which is a nice thing) so once it has shipped I get it the next day (with free shipping...)

[00:27:38]

knightr:

Beirdo: Which carrier do they use, UPS or USPS?

[00:27:43]

Beirdo:

here they use UPS or Fedex or Caltrack

[00:27:51]

Beirdo:

Caltrac rather.

[00:28:12]

Beirdo:

this one's set as Ontrac, which = Caltrac, AFAIK

[00:28:33]

Beirdo:

they only do California, Nevada, Arizona, Washington and probably Oregon

[00:28:43]

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[00:29:34]

knightr:

Beirdo: Here they used to use Canada Post but now it's UPS for everything... I dislike UPS when the item needs a signature since I have to go to their depot which is far from here and even more so when it comes from another country since they charge hefty brokerage fees (sometime as much as the value of the item...)

[00:29:48]

Beirdo:

don't I know it

[00:30:01]

Beirdo:

I shipped a server from California to Toronto once...

[00:30:15]

Beirdo:

the brokerage was almost as much as the server cost

[00:30:21]

Beirdo:

really wasn't worth it

[00:30:24]

knightr:

Beirdo: yep, exactly...

[00:31:11]

kisak:

sounds like you need a friend in NY

[00:31:20]

Beirdo:

not any more

[00:31:22]

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[00:31:27]

Beirdo:

I live in Seattle now ;)

[00:31:36]

knightr:

Beirdo: Anybody (in Canada) who has experience with ordering things from other countries (especially from the US) doesn't want, under any circumstances, to use UPS...

[00:31:39]

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[00:31:53]

Beirdo:

knightr: UNLESS the shipper pays the brokerage

[00:31:57]

Beirdo:

which they won't

[00:32:39]

knightr:

kisak, I know there are places where you can have items shipped and you can pick them up for a small fee... It's more trouble though...

[00:32:53]

Beirdo:

if you have your own brokerage company on the hook, you can have the other company clear it through customs for you

[00:33:00]

Beirdo:

and usually for FAR cheaper

[00:34:01]

knightr:

Beirdo: The other solution is to pay for one of their services which includes the brokerage fees (but not the duties/taxes obviously...)

[00:34:27]

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[00:35:01]

knightr:

Beirdo: I know we can also do our own brokerage... Not sure of the exact procedure but you have to get a special form, fill it in, bring it to a govt office and then back to UPS...

[00:35:24]

Beirdo:

yeah, something crazy like that

[00:35:26]

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[00:35:36]

Beirdo:

or get a good friend in Vermont

[00:35:51]

Beirdo:

ship to them, take a road trip to pick it up

[00:36:00]

knightr:

Beirdo: which most people can't do unless they have a lot of free time or it's part of their job to do it...)

[00:36:25]

knightr:

Beirdo: yep, I know somebody who does that...

[00:36:31]

Beirdo:

I'd be tempted to get a Mailboxes, Etc (or the like) box just across the border

[00:37:39]

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[00:37:42]

knightr:

Berdo: I know somebody mentionned something like that and apparently it's not that costly to use (if you pick up the item maybe 1–2 weeks after it was shipped it costs something like $6...)

[00:37:55]

russell5:

anyone use .24 that can try to answer a question for me

[00:38:14]

russell5:

i upgrade to .24 this morning but i cant get to the program guide from live tv now

[00:38:17]

knightr:

.24 doesn't exist yet...

[00:38:22]

knightr:

you are running trunk?

[00:38:27]

russell5:

yeah sorry trunk

[00:38:45]

russell5:

when i choose it nothing happens and no error in mythfrontend or backend log

[00:38:52]

knightr:

are you using SD or EPG?

[00:38:56]

Criggie:

I got a 30 pound item from the UK, cost 60 pounds to send to NZ.

[00:39:10]

russell5:

not sure

[00:39:13]

knightr:

Criggie, (-;

[00:39:20]

Criggie:

same item here cost $200 which is about 120 pounds, so still worked out best.

[00:39:38]

knightr:

Is it the menu which doesn't appear or do you mean it's empty?

[00:39:57]

knightr:

are you using MythWeb, is anything shown?

[00:40:27]

russell5:

the guide doesn't appear. in mythweb and under manage recordings all the data is there

[00:40:28]

knightr:

russell85, are you using Schedules Direct (SD)?

[00:40:32]

russell5:

yes sd

[00:41:31]

knightr:

Beirdo: My backend is not functionning at the moment (hardware problem), does russell85 problem ring a bell?

[00:42:10]

Beirdo:

I think it's being worked on

[00:42:20]

russell5:

the log shows the button wwas pressed? i also cant get to osd menu editor under settings

[00:42:38]

Beirdo:

I don't do livetv, but I think that there's a ticket about that or similar

[00:42:54]

knightr:

Beirdo, russel5, I'll try to did up the ticket number, hold on...

[00:45:26]

russell5:

thanks. this is the error

[00:45:29]

russell5:

2010-09–19 20:44:49.709 TV: OSDDialogEvent: result 0 text Program Guide action GUIDE

[00:45:34]

russell5:

well not error

[00:45:45]

russell5:

but thats what happens in the log file

[00:46:57]

knightr:

Beirdo: I use liveTV but unfortuntely can't right now... I hope my problem is only the video card...

[00:48:01]

high-rez:

Any of you know of bluray movies with audio tracks which have sample rate > 48khz ?

[00:49:06]

knightr:

Beirdo, russel5, I found something about a problem in LiveTV with the channel editor but nothing else...

[00:49:21]

Beirdo:

I dunno

[00:49:40]

Beirdo:

my brain hurts too much to do much today.

[00:49:53]

Beirdo:

gotta love drinking.

[00:50:12]

high-rez:

I should have started drinking 5 hours ago!

[00:50:30]

knightr:

going to #mythtv for a minute to inquire if somebody knows of this problem, I'll be back...

[00:50:41]

** high-rez blinks **

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[00:52:49]

russell5:

yeah its odd i had it set to open guide when launching mythtv and that 1/2 the time causes it to lock up

[00:53:06]

knightr:

Berido: They are trying to determine the version number in #mythtv... 0.23.90 or 0.24.something...

[00:53:19]

knightr:

oops meant Beirdo ^

[00:53:44]

Beirdo:

yeah

[00:53:53]

Beirdo:

we are doing RC1 tonight AFAIK

[00:54:16]

high-rez:

Does that mean you'll be adding a new branch tonight?

[00:54:17]

high-rez:

:)

[00:54:35]

Beirdo:

no, the branch happens at release

[00:54:45]

Beirdo:

to my recollection

[00:54:54]

knightr:

Beirdo: Yep, that was the plan though when I inquired earlier today there was a possibility of delaying...

[00:54:56]

high-rez:

Ahh

[00:54:59]

iamlindoro:

not the past two releases it hasn't

[00:55:14]

kormoc:

0.20 we branched at the RC

[00:55:19]

Beirdo:

ah

[00:55:20]

iamlindoro:

Branch likely to happen around the RC

[00:55:48]

high-rez:

Hey which ever of you guys worked on the bd support? Friggin awesome. :)

[00:56:01]

Beirdo:

I would think RC2 might be a better time, but whatever, as long as the people doing it knows how it's being done, it's fine :)

[00:56:08]

kormoc:

high-rez, I blame iamlindoro

[00:57:22]

Beirdo:

I know that before RC2, I intend to modify the verbosity levels of some logging I put in.

[00:57:26]

high-rez:

I can't wait to have some geeks over to show it off to ;) 4/4 movies have been perfect so far.

[00:57:26]

knightr:

russell5, danielk22 told me that if you are using XVideo there was a fix earlier today for this...

[00:57:38]

Beirdo:

but not before RC1

[00:57:48]

high-rez:

I'm curious if libbluray will ever support udf natively, or will one always have to mount_loop their disks?

[00:58:22]

russell5:

i dont know if im using xvideo

[00:58:33]

high-rez:

(I'm thinking of writing a script that does their automagically)

[00:59:17]

knightr:

russell5, the problem is related to http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8520 according to him....

[00:59:43]

knightr:

russell5, can you do a checkout and recompile?

[00:59:49]

high-rez:

kormoc: I'd directly thank iamlindoro myself, but I know how much he hates contact with end users. :))

[00:59:55]

** high-rez ducks **

[01:00:15]

Beirdo:

I think he's happy to get praise :)

[01:00:22]

russell5:

using mythbuntu repos i will see if theres an update.

[01:00:52]

Beirdo:

russell5: it might propagate through tomorrow, not sure how the builds are timed

[01:01:26]

russell5:

yeah i am assuming tomrrow. thanks for all your help i will wait and see if it works tomorrow

[01:01:41]

Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, kormoc, Beirdo, the discussion on -developers and subsequent timeline posted to -dev said that we wouldn't cut the branch until the release.

[01:01:54]

Beirdo:

OK

[01:01:55]

high-rez:

I just gotta find a movie that's not all 48khz sample rate now to see if other bitrates to my receiver are working right on the specific plughw device. The auto selection using ALSAL:hdmi doesn't work :( Pretty sure this is an also issue.

[01:02:10]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, I thought that given we're releasing the rc, that was the 'release', but fair 'nuff

[01:02:16]

Beirdo:

Captain_Murdoch: I thought I had read that somewhere. Whatever works :)

[01:02:29]

Captain_Murdoch:

no RC today/tomorrow, a 'Beta'. we're not RC worthy right now.

[01:02:41]

Beirdo:

so RC0 hehe

[01:02:48]

Captain_Murdoch:

I just emailed -developers

[01:02:52]

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[01:02:54]

Beirdo:

so you did

[01:02:55]

kormoc:

ahh

[01:03:03]

Captain_Murdoch:

some of the open tickets scare me

[01:03:16]

cadeon:

Evening.

[01:03:17]

high-rez:

cadeon: You're right, it's not available at this time (unless you start the recording then try to play it)

[01:03:30]

high-rez:

(answer before the question, I read minds and other channels)

[01:03:40]

Beirdo:

yeah, there are some open that need some serious attention

[01:04:43]

high-rez:

There seems to be a weird change in behavior with livetv channel browsing, which may or may not be bugged (realted to having multiple sources on the same device w/diseqc – maybe its a new feature though I dont know)

[01:04:51]

Captain_Murdoch:

forgot to mention in the email, there probably won't be an announcement on the website either, just a -dev announcement.

[01:04:53]

Beirdo:

cadeon: we may look into doing "LiveTV" over UPnP later on, but it's not there now

[01:05:18]

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[01:05:43]

cadeon:

well how hard would it to create some virtual objects in the upnp which change the channel and stream the ring buffer...

[01:06:13]

high-rez:

Someone here once mentioned when I asked the upnp livetv question back a bit ago that apparently the spec supports UI elements or something to that nature- so it could technically be possible, so I heard? Would be a neat idea, with all the super cheap upnp devices out there.

[01:06:13]

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[01:06:14]

cadeon:

I mean, I haven't been in the code or design so I don't really know. But I'd hope it wouldn't be to horrible.

[01:06:14]

wagnerrp:

you could look through the code and figure out for yourself

[01:06:50]

cadeon:

well I have two PS3s which I'd love to have as lives

[01:06:59]

[R]:

high-rez: your assuming "super cheap" upnp devices actually implement the whole thing

[01:07:11]

cadeon:

I intend to look at the code myself but there's no reason to do that without talking to others

[01:07:18]

high-rez:

cadeon: I looked into the upnp code once in myth (libmythupnp). Mind you I didn't develop or fix anything – but I remember it being the easiest part of the code I had ever looked at to understand :)

[01:07:20]

cadeon:

if it's been researched that should be leveraged.

[01:07:53]

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[01:08:07]

Beirdo:

cadeon: it will be looked into sometime after the 0.24 release, but feel free to look into it anyways.

[01:08:40]

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[01:10:22]

high-rez:

So once you guys go beta/rc does that mean there will be no protocol version bumps ? E.g. 62 is it for 0.24 ?

[01:10:36]

wagnerrp:

cadeon: as an intermediate step, we still need to figure out how to update the filesize and length of a streaming file

[01:10:49]

kormoc:

high-rez, unless for some reason a bug fix requires one, that's correct

[01:10:53]

wagnerrp:

if you start to stream a scheduled recording currently

[01:11:05]

wagnerrp:

it will only play to where ever the end was when you started

[01:11:06]

cadeon:

oh, that makes sense wagnerrp

[01:11:24]

wagnerrp:

at which point you have to exit playback on the UPNP device, and start it back up

[01:11:39]

cadeon:

right, because upnp expects static files

[01:11:48]

wagnerrp:

without that fixed, livetv is dead in the water

[01:11:50]

high-rez:

kormoc: Cool. Tracking trunk is easy on my master backend, but on the atom based slave backend/frontend – well version bumps take quite a while to compile for :)

[01:12:03]

cadeon:

I've played with this before, going direct from an hdhr to a PS3 has the same issue

[01:12:05]

[R]:

high-rez: thats what chroot is for

[01:12:12]

Beirdo:

upnp has provisions for tuning, etc, IIRC

[01:12:18]

kormoc:

high-rez, ccache + distcc :)

[01:12:37]

Beirdo:

our implementation may not work well for that, but as I said... it will be looked into

[01:13:17]

high-rez:

R/Kormoc: Indeed.

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[01:13:55]

knightr:

Can we let the translators know they will still have time to submit something for RC1?

[01:14:17]

Beirdo:

s/RC1/Beta/ :)

[01:14:54]

kormoc:

knightr, seems like daniel's point on this, so he'll likely be doing any announcements

[01:14:56]

knightr:

Beirdo: It's too late for Beta but not RC1...

[01:15:57]

knightr:

kormoc: OK.. He'll be email -users I guess (which the translators already are on)?

[01:16:17]

knightr:

remove the be...

[01:16:30]

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[01:17:10]

kormoc:

knightr, whoops, make that chris pinkham, I'm too hungover to remember correct names....

[01:17:21]

kormoc:

hair of the dog only postpones the pain

[01:18:00]

Beirdo:

kormoc: yeah, good thing it was Saturday night to give us Sunday to recover :)

[01:18:28]

knightr:

kormoc: found your reply weird because I had seen chris' posts earlier but though I had missing something in the discussion on #mythtv...

[01:18:33]

Captain_Murdoch:

knightr, I can email -dev and -users ahead of time, before the beta is cut, to let them know RC1 isn't coming on the 20th per our original timeline.

[01:19:08]

Captain_Murdoch:

I'll do that now. planned on doing it when I cut the beta tarballs, but can do another one now as well.

[01:19:33]

knightr:

Captain_Murdoch, np... Didn't know whether Kenni or I should tell that to the translator or wait for an official announcement...

[01:19:57]

knightr:

s/translator/translators/

[01:20:10]

Captain_Murdoch:

I'll do it now to squelch any people starting to ask where the RC is and let them know we're still on top of things.

[01:20:53]

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[01:27:58]

knightr:

kormoc: btw, did our PHP guru found something interesting on strftime? (-;

[01:28:02]

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[01:28:18]

kormoc:

heh, not yet, been busy :(

[01:28:30]

kormoc:

but this week I should have an answer

[01:28:43]

kormoc:

I'm thinking I'll be switching everything over to date, so it's unified

[01:28:53]

kormoc:

I don't believe there is any reason why we shouldn't use date

[01:29:20]

Captain_Murdoch:

knightr, email to -dev and -users sent.

[01:30:16]

knightr:

Captain_Murdoch, thanks! I'm sure that our translators will like having a few more additionnal days to submit their translations...

[01:30:19]

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[01:32:26]

high-rez:

Any of you guys play with ion2 systems? It looks like they should be able to do high quality scaling and maybe even advanced decoding with the more powerful gpu.

[01:33:17]

[R]:

i still don't get the obsession with deinterlacing

[01:33:35]

wagnerrp:

ivtc FTW!

[01:33:36]

[R]:

i have a "crappy" featureset B... and i dont notice anything wrong wiht it

[01:34:50]

high-rez:

I think the scaling is probably more important for me.

[01:34:58]

knightr:

kormoc, np thanks... doc says you need to use strftime for localization support I think...

[01:35:00]

high-rez:

There was one other thing I set that was a featureset c thing that helped a bit.

[01:36:15]

knightr:

kormoc, parameters are also different which will break the parameters already set in the translations...

[01:36:47]

wagnerrp:

high-rez: 'c' added hardware entropy decompressing for VC-1

[01:39:14]

wagnerrp:

high-rez: last i heard, the ION2 graphics chips was fairly similar in capability to that of the ION1

[01:39:33]

wagnerrp:

its a GT218 chip

[01:39:38]

wagnerrp:

so its got the same core count

[01:39:45]

knightr:

kormoc: To format dates in other languages, you should use the setlocale() and strftime() functions instead of date(). (from http://ca2.php.net/manual/en/function.date.php)

[01:39:46]

wagnerrp:

and maybe 15% higher clock rate

[01:40:58]

wagnerrp:

consider it similar to a desktop GT 210

[01:48:40]

high-rez:

wagnerrp: hqscaling is a featureset c thing, so in theory the ion2 should be able to do it, but not the original (if I understand correctly – i thought original ion was basically a 9400m – featureset b)

[01:49:46]

wagnerrp:

the ion was set c, the ion2 is set d

[01:50:30]

wagnerrp:

well... that depends on if you want to count the feature set supported by the 6xxx and 7xxx cards

[01:51:50]

[R]:

no, ion is b

[01:52:49]

high-rez:

Yeah, the mythtv wiki says its a 9400... :)

[01:53:02]

wagnerrp:

i misread... i thought someone way back said 'd'

[01:53:11]

high-rez:

The 218 would be C (which is required for hqscaling)

[01:53:20]

Beirdo:

a backwards d :)

[01:53:23]

wagnerrp:

so i was continuing with the 4-generation scheme

[01:54:03]

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[01:54:53]

high-rez:

All that said, vdpau hqscaling++ :)

[02:00:13]

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[02:02:14]

[R]:

if you watch 1080 content only... you dont need scalinng

[02:03:20]

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[02:07:01]

knightr:

if I copy something from one of our text files to put on the wiki nobody will be pi$$ed, right?

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[02:08:03]

wagnerrp:

dont see why they would

[02:08:42]

knightr:

thought so, thanks for the confirmation!

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[02:51:16]

bbolin:

newbee to irc

[02:51:53]

bbolin:

does anybody see this?

[02:52:19]

[R]:

yes

[02:52:39]

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[02:52:42]

bbolin:

cool. usually use mailing list

[02:53:28]

Criggie:

bbolin: heya

[02:53:38]

bbolin:

howdy

[02:54:06]

Criggie:

gidday.

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[02:54:21]

bbolin:

anybody know about installing native nvidia drivers on mythbuntu

[02:54:36]

bbolin:

does it break the package?

[02:54:58]

[R]:

"the package"?

[02:55:01]

bbolin:

i installed it and it working. was just currious

[02:55:12]

[R]:

well if its working...

[02:55:14]

bbolin:

nvidia drives

[02:55:33]

bbolin:

just wonder what happens when the next apt-get is done

[02:55:44]

[R]:

you didnt install it with apt?

[02:55:49]

bbolin:

didn't uninstall any packages

[02:55:54]

[R]:

whats to uninstall

[02:55:55]

bbolin:

no wanted to try latest

[02:56:00]

[R]:

well tehre you go

[02:56:04]

[R]:

installing things outside of apt is a very bad idea

[02:56:06]

[R]:

if you dont know hwat you are doing

[02:56:09]

bbolin:

dpkg -l|grep nvidia

[02:56:52]

Criggie:

r: yeah the nvidia drivers are one of the few things I've used outside of the package manager, and it mostly works well.

[02:57:02]

[R]:

theres nothign wrong with the apcakges...

[02:57:04]

Criggie:

better than the pre-packaged ones sometimes.

[02:57:13]

[R]:

um... its the same thing?

[02:57:14]

Criggie:

YMMV

[02:57:25]

[R]:

except one is made for the dist and one sint'

[02:57:42]

bbolin:

last time i tried installing jya repos had problems

[02:57:59]

Criggie:

I used to have to use 96 because of the age of the hardware, and the debian package wanted to upgrade to 173 or something

[02:59:21]

bbolin:

ii nvidia-current 195.36.24–0ubuntu1~10.04

[02:59:34]

bbolin:

think what i installed was version 253 something

[02:59:51]

[R]:

i have 256

[02:59:55]

[R]:

w/o breaking my system

[02:59:55]

bbolin:

wanted to see if the over scan options we're better with the new driver

[03:00:01]

[R]:

and installing ranbdom things outside of my package manager

[03:00:15]

wagnerrp:

256 and 260 are the two newest driver sets

[03:00:19]

wagnerrp:

ive never seen 253

[03:00:28]

bbolin:

what ever the latest is

[03:01:00]

bbolin:

don't see the over scan slider. i did this about a year ago. recall there having to be some other package installed to use the slider

[03:01:09]

[R]:

writing php is so relaxing

[03:01:23]

bbolin:

so is traffic :)

[03:01:33]

wagnerrp:

youre using svideo?

[03:01:39]

bbolin:

dvi

[03:01:57]

bbolin:

have 3 front ends

[03:02:07]

wagnerrp:

digital doesnt do over/underscan

[03:02:16]

bbolin:

no problem with lcd but 55 rear projection has always been a problem.

[03:02:39]

bbolin:

have gotten around it by custom edits to appearances setup

[03:02:52]

bbolin:

sure it does

[03:03:00]

bbolin:

about 2 inches over

[03:03:29]

bbolin:

i think it depends on what the TV says it can do

[03:03:31]

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[03:03:47]

bbolin:

it's fixable using custom edits

[03:03:49]

wagnerrp:

but there are no controls for it in any sane driver

[03:04:04]

wagnerrp:

as no sane display manufacturer would ever overscan a digital signal

[03:04:27]

fab5freddy:

i have been searching google all night for a solution

[03:04:37]

fab5freddy:

i am here as a last resort

[03:04:44]

bbolin:

it's fixable using custom edit

[03:05:07]

bbolin:

height, width offsets etc...

[03:05:15]

bbolin:

would just like the driver to do it

[03:05:45]

fab5freddy:

i get nbc 5.1 and 5.2, 5.2 works fine. 5.1 locks and then goes black without showing a picture and crashes. any ideas?

[03:05:59]

wagnerrp:

what do you mean by 'crashes'?

[03:06:21]

fab5freddy:

it stays on a black screen and continues to use high cpu. i have to manually end the process

[03:06:34]

wagnerrp:

is this the backend or the frontend?

[03:06:40]

wagnerrp:

what version of mythtv are you running?

[03:06:41]

fab5freddy:

frontend

[03:07:02]

wagnerrp:

is this an existing system that just started having problems? or are you trying to set up a new system?

[03:07:59]

fab5freddy:

this is an existing system. all the other channels work fine. it's just 5.1 that does this. how do i find out what version I am using?

[03:08:13]

wagnerrp:

'mythbackend --version'

[03:08:34]

wagnerrp:

if its an existing system that just started acting up, it could be something changed in their stream that is causing problems

[03:08:49]

fab5freddy:

QT Version : 4.6.2

[03:08:51]

wagnerrp:

either they moved the PID of their primary station

[03:09:01]

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[03:09:06]

wagnerrp:

or they changed to a new encoder that mythtv is choking on

[03:09:17]

wagnerrp:

how are you decoding this?

[03:09:24]

wagnerrp:

software? xvmc? vdpau?

[03:09:44]

wagnerrp:

what is the mythtv version? should be 0.22, 0.23, trunk, ....

[03:10:15]

fab5freddy:

using_xvmc_vld MythTV Branch : branches/release-0-23-fixes

[03:10:39]

wagnerrp:

try switching to 'standard', software decoding

[03:10:41]

fab5freddy:

i deleted all the channels and re-scanned but to no avail

[03:10:53]

fab5freddy:

how do i do that?

[03:11:04]

wagnerrp:

how did you enable xvmc in the first place?

[03:11:08]

wagnerrp:

its not set up by default

[03:11:31]

wagnerrp:

or are you just reading off words that you found in the configure line in the version printout

[03:11:41]

bbolin:

you can delete all channels from mythtv-setup

[03:11:57]

fab5freddy:

just copied and pasted the words from the --version

[03:11:58]

bbolin:

only one tunner?

[03:12:03]

fab5freddy:

yes, one tuner only.

[03:12:08]

bbolin:

ota?

[03:12:11]

fab5freddy:

yes.

[03:12:14]

wagnerrp:

could you pastebin your frontend logs around the time of the crash?

[03:12:27]

fab5freddy:

how do i do that?

[03:12:48]

wagnerrp:

most distros like to put that in /var/log/mythtv

[03:13:40]

wagnerrp:

pastebin meaning, use a pastebin website, not paste in the channel

[03:14:09]

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[03:14:23]

bbolin:

what is pastebin website?

[03:14:35]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.pastebin.com

[03:15:29]

bbolin:

intresting. this is for posting error logs only?

[03:15:50]

wagnerrp:

anything and everything you could possibly want

[03:15:51]

wagnerrp:

text only

[03:15:59]

wagnerrp:

and theyve probably got a size limit

[03:17:26]

fab5freddy:

http://pastebin.com/6zRghQEy

[03:18:29]

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[03:18:30]

wagnerrp:

please upgrade to a release version of mythtv

[03:18:37]

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[03:18:44]

wagnerrp:

you are currently running a pre-release unstable version of 0.23

[03:20:02]

fab5freddy:

how do i do this? sudo apt-get update?

[03:20:27]

wagnerrp:

try in #mythbuntu

[03:21:47]

fab5freddy:

ok thanks

[03:22:33]

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[03:48:27]

fab5freddy:

i upgraded my version but still having the same issue. any ideas?

[03:51:18]

[R]:

hot damn

[03:51:21]

[R]:

my micro code works

[04:03:07]

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[04:06:36]

bmidgley2_:

is there a way to make the "adjust audio sync" persist? I've found the sweet spot is +300ms but I have to set it every time I start a video

[04:07:55]

wagnerrp:

if you consistently need to set an offset, it sounds more like thats merely a symptom of a larger issue

[04:08:14]

bbolin:

i would say. i never adjust

[04:08:59]

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[04:09:43]

bbolin:

fab5freddy did u try deleting all channels and rescanning?

[04:10:58]

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[04:11:00]

bmidgley2_:

so yeah I'm probably using an iffy setup, pulse + bluetooth

[04:11:18]

bmidgley2_:

but there is no way to do what I'm after, a permanent offset?

[04:11:59]

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[04:14:46]

kormoc:

disable pulse and the delay will go away

[04:14:58]

bmidgley2_:

heh, then I lose bluetooth audio

[04:15:26]

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[04:16:07]

kormoc:

http://bluetooth-alsa.sourceforge.net/index.html

[04:16:28]

kormoc:

pulse just wraps those drivers already

[04:16:36]

kormoc:

so no, removing pulse won't drop your bluetooth audio

[04:20:05]

bmidgley2_:

pulse has its own implementation now, it's not connected with alsa

[04:20:17]

bmidgley2_:

I wrote that page you referenced, before we killed it off

[04:20:41]

kormoc:

fair 'nuff

[04:21:05]

kormoc:

but given how pulse works, it's unlikely that your magic number of 300 is going to stay consistent

[04:21:40]

wagnerrp:

you could complain to the pulse guys to get some functional latency handling

[04:21:53]

wagnerrp:

see if you can get passthrough digital while youre at it

[04:25:34]

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[04:29:21]

knightr:

kormoc: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Translation#Translate_MythWeb

[04:31:20]

kormoc:

looks good

[04:32:03]

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[04:34:28]

Beirdo:

so I think I may have to buy a new fan for the new case

[04:34:42]

Beirdo:

retarded blue LEDs in the intake fan.

[04:36:06]

knightr:

kormoc: Thanks! It's essentially the info that pertained to translators in the translations.txt file + some info (adjusted for MythWeb) that was there for MythFrontend & the plugins + info I added... I noticed that almost no translators seemed to have submitted translations for MythWeb probably because the info was not as easily available...

[04:37:01]

knightr:

kormoc: I also sent a mail to the translators' mailing list to encourage them to submit MythWeb translations...

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[06:25:18]

Beirdo:

anyone have an Intel H55 motherboard?

[06:25:20]

qupada:

Hi all. I'm trying to build a (headless backend) system with a minimal system dependency set, wondering if I'm actually going to lose anythihng if I build without dbus support – can't find any docs as to what it's used for in myth.

[06:25:46]

Beirdo:

just curious as to which chipset Linux reads it as

[06:27:06]

kormoc:

qupada, dvd insert detection in the frontend afaik

[06:27:58]

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[06:28:23]

qupada:

kormoc: Ah, that would make sense. Planning on running mythbackend in a chrooted environment on something like this http://qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=146 so I'm going to take a wild guess I don't need that

[06:28:28]

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[06:29:03]

wagnerrp:

yeah... thats a bad idea

[06:29:43]

kormoc:

it'll take forever to schedule

[06:29:55]

wagnerrp:

little memory, less power

[06:30:14]

qupada:

wait, I actually linked the wrong one there

[06:30:18]

wagnerrp:

forced to use USB tuners

[06:30:24]

qupada:

I have a hdhomerun

[06:30:26]

kormoc:

poor, poor mysql

[06:30:28]

qupada:

http://qnap.com/pro_detail_feature.asp?p_id=109

[06:30:42]

qupada:

try that one – core 2 duo 2.8/2GB rather than atom 1.6/1GB

[06:30:47]

wagnerrp:

yeah, that will work better

[06:31:14]

wagnerrp:

assuming you can run an OS off one of the disks

[06:31:32]

wagnerrp:

not goign to be doing much with that 128MB flash... not sure what purpose that serves

[06:31:54]

kormoc:

yeah, that'd work

[06:32:12]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, compressed boot loader image perhaps

[06:32:19]

qupada:

There is documentation of their forums about running debian in a chrooted environment off the array – you can flash some regular x86 distros to the flash but as you say 128MB doesn't get you much

[06:32:43]

wagnerrp:

well it would get you enough to boot up a basic kernel and environment

[06:32:52]

wagnerrp:

enough to run vservers off the disk array

[06:34:23]

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[06:36:27]

** wagnerrp goes to sleep **

[06:36:33]

wagnerrp:

cable guy may show up in 6hrs

[06:36:59]

wagnerrp:

apparently when you order 7 of those little DTAs, they have to send a tech out to make sure you arent doing something 'strange'

[06:37:22]

wagnerrp:

reselling to neighbors or something

[06:37:28]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:37:38]

Beirdo:

have a good sleep

[06:38:17]

wagnerrp:

im still waiting for him to say they dont support 3rd party DVRs

[06:42:27]

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[09:17:17]

justinh:

^£&*"^&£*^&*^&*@@@ RADIOTIMES.COM !!!!!!!!!! :-(

[09:51:19]

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[09:55:57]

laga:

justinh: ohhai :)

[10:07:04]

justinh:

hey LTNS

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[12:23:46]

justinh:

oof. reading the comments on el reg's take of intel confirming the HDCP hack.. seems a lot of people misunderstand the concept

[12:24:22]

laga:

lolwut d00d i can finally rip them bluereys

[12:25:43]

justinh:

people talking about capturing raw HDMI... man that's gonna take some pretty heavy lifting for a home user

[12:25:44]

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[12:25:48]

laga:

heh

[12:25:49]

laga:

indeed

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[12:45:19]

wagnerrp:

its really not /that/ bad, only ~600mbps

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[13:20:16]

justinh:

gee, it's all go in here today

[13:20:27]

justinh:

I guess nobody is failing to configure mythtv today :-)

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[13:40:25]

wagnerrp:

justinh: have you been following the discussion about the cutlist editor?

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[13:46:24]

justinh:

nope

[13:47:12]

wagnerrp:

tried doing one this morning

[13:47:29]

wagnerrp:

seems you need to 'cap' the recording to get it to delete the edges

[13:47:48]

wagnerrp:

but when i skipped to the end to put the cutpoint at the end

[13:48:10]

wagnerrp:

it exited playback, and left the cut session open such that i could not access it anymore

[13:48:17]

justinh:

oof

[13:48:23]

wagnerrp:

guess i need to 'read the mailing list and/or commits'

[13:48:31]

wagnerrp:

... and probably upgrade

[13:49:08]

justinh:

I sometimes don't like the way things are headed.. but hey.. not having time or motivation there's not much room for comment

[13:49:27]

wagnerrp:

i do remember, i think stuarta, mentioning that it no longer makes the popup that lets you override the existing session

[13:49:35]

wagnerrp:

its supposed to, but it didnt

[13:49:39]

wagnerrp:

probably been fixed by now

[13:51:53]

wagnerrp:

a week and a 130 commits behind

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[14:18:43]

marc_us:

Howdy from Texas

[14:19:03]

Gibby_away is now known as Gibby

[14:19:16]

Gibby:

Anyone have a H/K AVR247?

[14:19:48]

wagnerrp:

ive got an H/K 47, if thats close enough

[14:20:30]

wagnerrp:

its got somewhat of an ill temperament, though

[14:21:16]

Gibby:

lol, different kind of H/K :)

[14:21:53]

justinh:

ah AV receiver

[14:22:01]

wagnerrp:

so... not a hunter/killer droid?

[14:22:49]

Gibby:

correct

[14:23:22]

justinh:

<liemode> Yeah I've got one. It sucks </liemode>

[14:23:33]

Gibby:

Just found one on CL he wanted $250 for it and it includes a KLIPSCH Sub, got him down to $180 already

[14:23:42]

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[14:24:03]

justinh:

meh. names

[14:24:16]

justinh:

who names hifi gear after Ikea furniture anyway?

[14:24:36]

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[14:25:17]

** justinh looks at his 'Juski' whiteboard which still periodically gets angry & deletes everything written on it **

[14:28:51]

justinh:

hang on a sec.. advertised for $250 and you got him down to $180? The guy has no spine.. or you're blackmailing him

[14:29:01]

wagnerrp:

CL... used

[14:29:07]

justinh:

still...

[14:29:40]

justinh:

.. or... bits of you are gonna be in a freezer shortly

[14:29:42]

wagnerrp:

yeah, with a (powered?) sub thrown in?

[14:31:25]

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[14:32:50]

Gibby:

yep i now :), it has been posted for almost 3 weeks with no price change.. he said I offered 150, the came back to 200 lowest, i said 180 cash tonight and he said deal... :), maybe i need that real H/K to go with me

[14:33:55]

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[14:43:01]

skd5aner:

what's the current RC date?

[14:43:47]

justinh:

just been pushed back a tad, said the ML today

[14:43:56]

** skd5aner rarely checks mailing list **

[14:44:25]

justinh:

a beta will now come before the RC

[14:44:54]

skd5aner:

I see it on gossamer now, thanks

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[15:02:29]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: ping, you there?

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Beirdo:

skd5aner: I'm here, what's up?

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[15:35:16]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: r26382, that's one commit that had me scratching my head in ignorance...

[15:35:36]

skd5aner:

I wasn't able to translate that into something that meant something to me, mind dumbing it down for me?

[15:35:58]

Beirdo:

one sec

[15:36:21]

Beirdo:

heh

[15:36:23]

Beirdo:

OK.

[15:36:34]

skd5aner:

:)

[15:37:01]

Beirdo:

for the UPnP backend discovery done by the frontend, mythpreviewgen, and mythcommflag (at least) and likely others...

[15:37:25]

Beirdo:

we were opening a port (6549) and binding a webserver to it, and it was never used.

[15:38:01]

Beirdo:

the problem with that is... all the clients were using the same port number, and sometimes they'd block another client from finding the backend

[15:39:15]

Beirdo:

however, we don't need a webserver for the discovery to work, we just need to be listening to return traffic from our search request.... so I made it so we can *only* send the request and get the response rather than having a bogus server on a fixed port that we never use at all.

[15:39:55]

Beirdo:

that help?

[15:40:12]

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[15:41:40]

Beirdo:

ah great. all of my commflag sessions last night segfaulted

[15:43:29]

Beirdo:

#0 0x00007fc340985d53 in ?? ()

[15:43:29]

Beirdo:

#1 0x0000000000000000 in ?? ()

[15:43:33]

Beirdo:

how useful

[15:44:04]

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[15:46:15]

Beirdo:

anyways, I gotta get heading to the bus stop so I don't end up late for work. Let me know if I need to clarify it more, K?

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[16:10:41]

wagnerrp:

well the tuners are installed

[16:10:47]

wagnerrp:

now for figuring out how to control them...

[16:15:00]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: yes, thank you!

[16:15:21]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: which tuners?

[16:16:06]

wagnerrp:

DTAs

[16:16:49]

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[16:19:53]

skd5aner:

ah, no more video in the EPG in livetv? (r26416)

[16:20:15]

skd5aner:

must have forgot about that

[16:21:25]

skd5aner:

oh wait, that's the

[16:21:30]

skd5aner:

... program finder

[16:21:55]

skd5aner:

is program finder == EPG?

[16:22:38]

wagnerrp:

no

[16:22:47]

wagnerrp:

program finder is program finder

[16:22:54]

skd5aner:

program finder is the list of alphabetical programs then?

[16:23:02]

wagnerrp:

lets you alphabetically search all programs, present and future

[16:23:05]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[16:23:35]

skd5aner:

so, was there ever a video window that went along with the program finder in live tv? I certainly don't remember one, but maybe the video continued to play anyway

[16:23:52]

wagnerrp:

not that i recall

[16:24:02]

wagnerrp:

i didnt even know you could access the program finder in livetv

[16:24:11]

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[16:24:26]

skd5aner:

yea, I think that's why I was getting confused when danielk said a video window was no longer supported – I don't think it ever was in the program findeR (only the EPG)

[16:24:39]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: yea, I knew you could... it's in the menu

[16:24:51]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: I believe it's a second level down though

[16:25:28]

skd5aner:

I've used it on occassions when I'm like "oh yea, I want to record that show" – usually because they put it as an overlay on the show I'm watching

[16:26:01]

skd5aner:

I want to say the top level menu is something like "edit schedules" or something

[16:26:16]

skd5aner:

I'm bad at recalling that stuff off the top of my head

[16:33:49]

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[16:37:45]

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[16:37:59]

Gibby:

What happened to: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Video_capture_cards

[16:40:25]

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[16:45:03]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v sphery

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[17:06:34]

iamlindoro:

We support APIs, not capture cards. Wiki pages for particular cards should be at linuxtv, not our wiki. For links to the linuxtv wiki, see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Digital_Tuner_Cards and http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Analog_Framebuffer_Cards and http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Analog_Hardware_Encoder_Cards

[17:13:48]

Gibby:

iamlindoro: understand thanks :)

[17:13:59]

iamlindoro:

np

[17:15:34]

sphery:

and, TTBOMK, we have a few remaining capture card pages that have no equivalent on linuxtv, that someone needs to take time to move to their wiki.

[17:15:47]

sphery:

wagnerrp probably knows exactly which ones

[17:15:55]

sphery:

so if you're motivated...

[17:16:23]

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[17:24:41]

wagnerrp:

ive got a shared warning box at the top of it

[17:24:45]

wagnerrp:

s/it/each/

[17:25:01]

wagnerrp:

so if you want a list, just get a 'what links here' of the template

[17:25:16]

sphery:

nice

[17:26:10]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/ . . . rate_LinuxTV

[17:26:16]

awalls:

iamlindoro: (looking at the Wiki links) the HVR-1600 has a variant that supports FM radio.

[17:26:44]

wagnerrp:

awalls: the vanilla cards do not, the MCE variants often do

[17:26:48]

iamlindoro:

awalls: I didn't write the pages, but any accuracy improvements would be appreciated

[17:27:09]

** sphery wonders what a transclusion is **

[17:27:43]

wagnerrp:

its not linked directly, but included through a template

[17:27:44]

sphery:

In computer science, transclusion is the inclusion of a document or part of a document into another document by reference.

[17:27:47]

awalls:

Ok. Maybe when I'm done my day job.

[17:28:42]

** awalls notes the Leadtek and Yuan CX23418 based cards need to be added as well. **

[17:29:19]

iamlindoro:

awalls: Don't think it's meant to be an exhaustive list, merely a user-checked list of cards that have been known to work well with Myth

[17:29:52]

wagnerrp:

awalls: like iamlindoro said, those are not exhaustive lists... those are just references to any tuner card pages we formerly had on our wiki

[17:29:59]

awalls:

iamlindoro: understood.

[17:31:33]

wagnerrp:

if a card had a page on our wiki, it got a line in the table, and a reference to yours... or if there was no page on yours, the page stayed on ours, but had all categories and links to it removed

[17:31:59]

high-rez:

The libbluray in myth doesn't have any native udf support does it ?

[17:32:01]

sphery:

Hmmm... 5 days ago: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/452173#452173 , then today: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/452749#452749 . Moral of the story: clicking a link that gives full information is too hard, so no one does it. (Or, potentially, when presented with options, users can't make up their own mind?)

[17:32:16]

awalls:

wagnerrp: I actually thought the MythTV HVR-1600 page was superior to the LinuxTV one.

[17:32:44]

skd5aner:

sphery: can you just tell me what those links say? I don't feel like clicking on them

[17:32:46]

sphery:

But, hey, the 5 days the user has been without Perl bindings is probably a small price to pay for not having to click a link

[17:32:46]

skd5aner:

:P

[17:32:51]

sphery:

skd5aner: exactly...

[17:32:56]

wagnerrp:

perhaps it was, that data still exists in the database if the data needs to be gotten at

[17:33:29]

sphery:

(for the purpose of using it as a reference to update the linuxtv page :)

[17:33:40]

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[17:35:04]

sphery:

besides, I wonder where all the people who told me not to worry about overriding Perl's configured install prefix because there are no broken systems/distros that don't include /usr/local in the @INC went to...

[17:35:39]

sphery:

shouldn't they be telling me that SUSE is a broken distro and that no one should use it, anymore--especially since it's VMWare

[17:36:00]

wagnerrp:

awalls: for now, the page is still available... http://mythtv.org/wiki?title=Hauppauge_HVR-1600&oldid=47363

[17:36:51]

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[17:38:02]

awalls:

wagnerrp: thanks. I may grab some text from it.

[17:38:14]

Beirdo:

sphery: whatcha on about?

[17:38:28]

wagnerrp:

i hadnt intended to delete any of those pages any time soon, for that specific reason

[17:38:33]

Beirdo:

ahh

[17:38:45]

wagnerrp:

and any that have already been deleted /can/ be accessed by a wikiop

[17:39:35]

sphery:

Beirdo: I'm just being sore about being told that no systems exist that don't include /usr/local in the Perl @INC.

[17:40:06]

sphery:

from a long-time-ago discussion when I tried to convince people that we shouldn't override Perl's configured installation decisions

[17:40:20]

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[17:41:04]

Beirdo:

this is for the bindings themselves, I take it?

[17:41:12]

sphery:

yeah

[17:41:18]

Beirdo:

yeah, well... :)

[17:41:37]

Beirdo:

reminds me of the Culture Club song again...

[17:41:42]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you mean have the installer automatically add its installed path to the perl search path?

[17:41:44]

sphery:

I looked at modifying configure to see if the @INC includes the MythTV prefix and there's not a really good way to do that

[17:41:46]

Beirdo:

"People are stupid"

[17:42:00]

wagnerrp:

i agree that that would be a horrible thing to do

[17:42:01]

sphery:

wagnerrp: unless the installer automatically recompiles Perl, it can't do that

[17:42:13]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: my wife just IMd me saying the same thing...

[17:42:30]

skd5aner:

must be one of those days

[17:42:31]

sphery:

wagnerrp: What I'm saying is that the MythTV configure now thinks it's smarter than Perl and tells Perl where to put the bindings, and then on some systems, they're unusable

[17:42:35]

Beirdo:

sphery: yeah but our scripts can do the @INC inclusion easily enough

[17:42:56]

Beirdo:

they are only unusable if the scripts aren't smart enough to overcome

[17:42:57]

wagnerrp:

sphery: it should only do that if the user forces it to a new location, with the --prefix

[17:42:58]

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[17:43:10]

sphery:

without jumping through hoops as at http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/299202#299202

[17:43:14]

Beirdo:

which... they mostly aren't :)

[17:43:27]

sphery:

wagnerrp: but what I'm saying is that MythTV prefix is /not/ always appropriate for Perl bindings

[17:43:33]

sphery:

Perl has its own separate configuration

[17:43:52]

wagnerrp:

sphery: youre saying it could cause problems with the default config?

[17:44:01]

Beirdo:

sphery: it most certainly is appropriate. as long as the scripts know where to look for it

[17:44:41]

sphery:

I'm saying that since http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/25450 , MythTV will install the Perl bindings to MythTV prefix, even if the system's Perl is compiled such that ${PREFIX}/lib/perl5 isn't in the @INC

[17:44:49]

Beirdo:

if you want to change the perl bindings to always install into system default paths, I for one will strongly object

[17:45:09]

Beirdo:

absolutely

[17:45:31]

Beirdo:

have we had any reports of breakage due to that?

[17:45:40]

sphery:

at which point the bindings can't be found unless you modify your environment (/every/ time you execute a Perl bindings script), recompile Perl and change its configuration (which is not ideal)

[17:45:59]

sphery:

or modify /every/ Perl bindings script in a couple of ugly (and not smart) ways

[17:46:19]

sphery:

Beirdo: yes, SUSE: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/452030#452030

[17:46:46]

sphery:

http://search.cpan.org/~mschwern/ExtUtils-Mak . . . make_install

[17:46:55]

sphery:

"If the user has superuser privileges, and is not working on AFS or relatives, then the defaults for INSTALLPRIVLIB, INSTALLARCHLIB, INSTALLSCRIPT, etc. will be appropriate, and this incantation will be the best:"

[17:47:02]

sphery:

i.e. we should /not/ do what we're doing

[17:47:32]

sphery:

and, we're the only package that seems to do that

[17:47:44]

sphery:

s/package/project/

[17:47:49]

sphery:

(as it's not related to packagers)

[17:48:05]

Beirdo:

read the first phrase of that quote...

[17:48:29]

sphery:

superuser?

[17:48:31]

Beirdo:

are we going to now require people to have root to install our application?

[17:48:31]

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[17:48:40]

sphery:

when you install to /usr/local, you /must/ have superuser

[17:48:46]

sphery:

or when you install to /usr

[17:48:51]

sphery:

(or you have a /very/ broken system)

[17:48:52]

Beirdo:

correct.

[17:49:12]

Beirdo:

and if you are installing mythtv as non-root, you need perl bindings to go where you say

[17:49:18]

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[17:49:20]

Beirdo:

not that that's a common issue

[17:49:21]

sphery:

so, yes, we (really, the system) requires the user have superuser privileges to install our application

[17:49:33]

sphery:

Beirdo: IMHO, the /proper/ approach is to use half of the committed patch

[17:49:57]

sphery:

those users who want to install to /usr/local should then specify --perl-config-opts="PREFIX=/usr/local"

[17:50:29]

sphery:

and those who want to install to $HOME/mythtv, use --perl-config-opts="PREFIX=$HOME/mythtv"

[17:51:09]

sphery:

basically, when we /force/ the PREFIX to be passed, there's no way to get it to work properly for users for whom MythTV's prefix isn't appropriate

[17:51:23]

sphery:

but if we /allow/ PREFIX to be passed, but don't require it, then it works for everyone

[17:51:26]

Beirdo:

all because the user's too silly/lazy to set an environment variable?

[17:51:28]

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[17:51:50]

sphery:

no, all because MythTV Perl bindings scripts are executed in hundreds of environments on my system

[17:51:53]

Beirdo:

you run perl scripts from a command line. set the env variable first

[17:52:06]

Beirdo:

fair enough

[17:52:09]

sphery:

so, all because the user's too silly/lazy to specify --perl-config-opts="PREFIX=/usr/local"

[17:52:35]

Beirdo:

hmmm.

[17:52:47]

sphery:

and, besides, "Are we going to /force/ our users to modify their entire Perl configuration to use MythTV Perl bindings?"

[17:53:14]

Beirdo:

it doesn't force anything, really, but I see your point

[17:53:38]

sphery:

anyway, I'm only adamant about this because I can't find any good way to do this without another option--unless we lose the "MythTV configure knows more about Perl than Perl does"

[17:54:19]

Beirdo:

well, the point of doing this is because those perl bindings are inherently part of our application

[17:54:35]

sphery:

Sure, I can make configure scan @INC and look for /signs/ that it /might/ work if we install to MythTV prefix, but it will fail on some systems and things get really complext with INSTALL_ROOT and stuff

[17:54:38]

Beirdo:

and it's perfectly possible to have several versions of our application installed in several prefixes

[17:54:50]

Beirdo:

and that will break solidly the way it was

[17:55:04]

sphery:

and since the @INC will have to include things like /usr/local/lib/perl5/..., it's not as simple as just checking for /usr/local

[17:55:12]

Beirdo:

however, your thought of passing in the prefix in those cases using the --perl-config-opts works for me

[17:55:34]

Beirdo:

the normal case could and should install into default perl paths

[17:55:44]

sphery:

Beirdo: agreed, it will break the old way--what we have now is 1 step forward (--perl-config-opts) and one step back (PREFIX)

[17:55:48]

Beirdo:

for those of us who need otherwise, we can override

[17:55:54]

sphery:

I would love that approach

[17:55:56]

Beirdo:

let me go fix that

[17:56:07]

sphery:

though I /do/ fully admit that I have a configuration that's different from many

[17:56:18]

Beirdo:

as do I :)

[17:56:19]

Beirdo:

heh

[17:56:21]

sphery:

:)

[17:56:38]

Beirdo:

including wrapper scripts.

[17:56:43]

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[17:57:03]

wagnerrp:

my configuration looks fairly stock once you finish the first boot

[17:57:06]

sphery:

I wouldn't mind if we figure out some way to detect whether it will work, but when I started down that path, I kept thinking of packagers building to non-final install dirs

[17:57:30]

sphery:

and it just got too complex for the "Sometimes we'll pass PREFIX and sometimes we won't" approach

[17:57:38]

Beirdo:

hmm

[17:57:44]

Beirdo:

OK, this needs some work

[17:57:50]

sphery:

so if we just always force users who want to specify a PREFIX to use --perl-config-opts, it shuold work?

[17:57:59]

sphery:

it will?

[17:58:01]

Beirdo:

for the install, I'd like to use ${PERL_INSTALL_OPTS}

[17:58:18]

Beirdo:

but that requires adding yet another option into configure

[17:58:32]

Beirdo:

as configure and install options may not match

[17:58:39]

sphery:

the PREFIX would still match on both, right?

[17:58:44]

Beirdo:

does that make sense, or is this just Monday morning killing me?

[17:59:08]

Beirdo:

config options doesn't include prefix

[17:59:45]

sphery:

ah, we don't pass PREFIX to perl_build...

[17:59:50]

sphery:

would it hurt?

[17:59:53]

Beirdo:

the line to make the Makefile.perl passes in prefix separately

[18:00:05]

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[18:00:18]

Beirdo:

Could you make a ticket for this? I'll fix it tonight.

[18:01:32]

sphery:

oh, so the issue is whether the other config opts would cause problems for the make install...

[18:01:35]

sphery:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . erl/Makefile

[18:01:44]

Beirdo:

yup

[18:02:29]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[18:02:41]

Beirdo:

the PREFIX= on that line is superflouous

[18:02:43]

sphery:

FWIW, I tried even using --perl-config-opts=PREFIX=/usr with the current, but it ignored the 2nd PREFIX so the wrong one was used

[18:02:47]

Beirdo:

however it's spelled

[18:02:59]

sphery:

yeah, I'd think if the Makefile.perl is built with it, it would be there...

[18:03:06]

Beirdo:

the Makefile.perl has it built into it

[18:03:08]

sphery:

but I don't know Perl's stuff

[18:03:17]

Beirdo:

I'll look at this tonight

[18:03:21]

sphery:

thanks

[18:03:22]

Beirdo:

ticket me :)

[18:03:24]

sphery:

will do

[18:03:37]

Beirdo:

this is a nasty issue that we hadn't completely figured out right

[18:04:23]

sphery:

I appreciate your flexibility. It's definitely not fun having no options other than changing my system.

[18:04:49]

sphery:

I did consider recompiling Perl, but I decided it had more down sides than up sides for my usage

[18:04:58]

Beirdo:

I hear ya. Well, what we have now works great for me, but if it's badly breaking other setups, that's not good at all

[18:05:18]

Beirdo:

and yeah, we don't want to require people to recompile perl

[18:05:34]

Beirdo:

at worst, you could make a perl wrapper script, rename perl to perl-real

[18:05:35]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:05:39]

Beirdo:

but that still sucks

[18:05:54]

sphery:

It's possible that I could abuse what we have now if we just transpose PREFIX="$(PREFIX)" $(PERL_CONFIG_OPTS) (so I pass in --perl-config-opts=PREFIX=/usr and it ignores the one MythTV passes), but that would only work if we also removed the install's PREFIX stuff

[18:06:17]

sphery:

yeah, all of the approaches I found were too inelegant for my tastes :)

[18:06:28]

Beirdo:

yeah, we'll work it out, make it right

[18:06:29]

sphery:

I've just been doing without the bindings on my dev box for now

[18:06:43]

Beirdo:

I use a nice wrapper script :)

[18:07:03]

sphery:

and if it all came down to it, I'd just patch the install script on production to remove the PREFIX stuff

[18:07:13]

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[18:07:21]

Beirdo:

I set PYTHONPATH, PERL5LIB, LD_LIBRARY_PATH, PATH...

[18:07:26]

Beirdo:

all based on PREFIX

[18:07:27]

sphery:

$(warning make unsinstall is not supported for the perl bindings)

[18:07:31]

sphery:

heh, didn't know that :)

[18:07:38]

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[18:07:39]

Beirdo:

ugh

[18:07:52]

sphery:

yeah, for your setup, you kind of have to--since you have a different install location each time

[18:07:59]

Beirdo:

yup

[18:08:08]

Beirdo:

uninstall SHOULD work, in theory

[18:08:15]

Beirdo:

wonder why it was disabled

[18:08:31]

sphery:

don't know... the Makefile MakeMaker creates supports it?

[18:08:40]

iamlindoro:

That would explain a ticket I have that complains about it

[18:08:41]

Beirdo:

yeah, seems like

[18:08:55]

iamlindoro:

And I think the only remaining bits are re: perl bindings

[18:09:02]

iamlindoro:

if you fix that, feel free to let me know :)

[18:09:05]

Beirdo:

:)

[18:09:14]

sphery:

iamlindoro: which ticket?

[18:09:19]

Beirdo:

you feel like punting that ticket to me, works for me

[18:09:22]

sphery:

oh, the make uninstall stuff?

[18:09:27]

Beirdo:

I'm not sure why that would be disabled

[18:09:34]

iamlindoro:

yes, make uninstall

[18:09:39]

sphery:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8370

[18:10:00]

sphery:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8370#comment:2 -> This will have changed somewhat, and it's possible that only the perl portions still apply since most of this has been moved. Pushing the rest to .25

[18:10:30]

Beirdo:

ahh.

[18:10:55]

Beirdo:

well, if I'm in there tweaking install, I see no logical reason not to investigate uninstall

[18:10:55]

sphery:

heh, the user didn't mention Net/IO/Socket/MythTV.pl (or whatever it is)

[18:11:35]

sphery:

heh http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6918

[18:13:03]

iamlindoro:

well that's douchey

[18:13:40]

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[18:15:06]

Beirdo:

just what I needed. :) More tickets to work... on the day my new backend box arrives. heeh

[18:15:08]

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[18:15:36]

sphery:

Beirdo: Yeah, I heard that was arriving today, and I didn't want you to get time to play with your new toy :)

[18:15:44]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:15:59]

Beirdo:

tickets are important. I'll get it done :)

[18:16:05]

sphery:

which reminds me to ask if you know why this might happen: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8958

[18:16:40]

sphery:

is there some #if that would prevent myth_system() from being compiled on Mac?

[18:16:45]

Beirdo:

sounds like the OSX distclean didn't clean up after itself

[18:16:56]

sphery:

ohhh... could well be

[18:17:14]

Beirdo:

after kormoc blew away the packager's cache dir (by the looks of it), it worked

[18:17:17]

sphery:

oh, nvm... I haven't caught up with tickets--he closed it

[18:17:26]

sphery:

yeah, I thought it was still open

[18:17:33]

kormoc:

yeah

[18:17:33]

Beirdo:

not sure what the core issue is, but it seems to be solely distclean-like related

[18:17:36]

Beirdo:

:)

[18:17:50]

kormoc:

it's something weird with having it been a non-pristine tree

[18:17:55]

sphery:

yeah, I was only asking because I thought it was still an open major ticket

[18:17:59]

Beirdo:

I asked him about it on Saturday.. just before we got blitzed on Belgian beer :)

[18:18:07]

sphery:

cool

[18:18:22]

sphery:

next time I'll catch up on my tickets folder before I ask :)

[18:18:27]

kormoc:

my patch was entirely meaningless (in this case) as it was to a pristine tree that worked (Yay for noops!)

[18:18:59]

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[18:19:05]

Beirdo:

kormoc: sounds like the osx-packager.pl script needs to clean up its files better or something?

[18:19:24]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: you want me to steal #8370 for now, send it back to you after doing the perl stuff?

[18:21:36]

sphery:

I think after the Perl stuff, there may be nothing left

[18:22:00]

Beirdo:

yeah, possibly, but I'll let him reevaluate to be sure

[18:22:05]

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[18:22:38]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: Yeah, nothing left TTBOMK

[18:22:43]

iamlindoro:

(at least, I'm not changing any more)

[18:22:52]

iamlindoro:

so feel free to take and close

[18:22:59]

Beirdo:

OK. sounds like a plan

[18:23:25]

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[18:23:29]

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[18:24:39]

Some_Person:

Can anyone suggest a good program for watching (but not recording) live digital over-the-air TV? I want something with a nice channel switcher, that obeys ATSC virtual channels

[18:24:42]

sphery:

kormoc: did I hear that you plan to put your ebuild into packaging?

[18:25:03]

kormoc:

sphery, yeah, but kinda wondering how best to do so

[18:25:04]

iamlindoro:

ATSC doesn't have virtual channels

[18:25:24]

Some_Person:

iamlindoro: Errm, yes it certainly does

[18:25:28]

iamlindoro:

ATSC has major and minor channels

[18:25:32]

iamlindoro:

no, it does not

[18:25:34]

wagnerrp:

Some_Person: youre going to get the same answer i gave you several days ago

[18:26:03]

Some_Person:

iamlindoro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_channel#North_America

[18:26:05]

iamlindoro:

Sounds like you are thinking about *SCTE* virtual channels, which is not ATSC

[18:26:23]

sphery:

kormoc: cool, I think that would be a wonderful thing. We have an RPM one in there, but no deb... but getting ebuild in would be nice.

[18:26:39]

Some_Person:

iamlindoro: I am talking about PSIP remapping on ATSC

[18:27:04]

iamlindoro:

Some_Person: Which is not virtual channels

[18:27:24]

kormoc:

sphery, problem is the ebuilds are tied to revisions, so it's not like it'd be one ebuild, it'd be adding a new one nightly/what notly

[18:27:31]

Some_Person:

iamlindoro: Well then what the heck would you call it?

[18:27:47]

iamlindoro:

So in reality, you are looking for some application to watch ATSC content which can properly parse PSIP tables

[18:27:55]

Some_Person:

iamlindoro: Correct

[18:28:10]

sphery:

kormoc: hmmm... that makes it more difficult

[18:28:10]

Beirdo:

got 3 boxes coming by UPS, one by Ontrac. :)

[18:28:17]

iamlindoro:

in which case, use Kaffeine or whatever

[18:28:21]

iamlindoro:

or askin #linuxtv

[18:28:35]

iamlindoro:

since we support MythTV rather than being a referral service for MythTV alternatives

[18:28:46]

Some_Person:

iamlindoro: Ok, I shall ask there

[18:28:56]

Some_Person:

thanks

[18:29:08]

** sphery makes the long (20-foot) trek into the other room to push the power button on his dev box **

[18:29:19]

sphery:

stupid mobo that can't do wake-on-lan after a power fail

[18:29:31]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Heh, so I guess that means your running regime isn't in full swing ;)

[18:29:45]

wagnerrp:

sphery: all these 'record on any channel' rules are causing me problems, NBC is re-airing all their new shows on Oxygen with no description

[18:30:00]

sphery:

well, that's /20 feet/... how far do you think I should be running each day?

[18:30:24]

sphery:

wagnerrp: can use filters

[18:30:35]

sphery:

"this channel" isn't a problem in those situations, though

[18:30:42]

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[18:30:43]

sphery:

only becomes a problem when you change chanids

[18:31:04]

sphery:

or change callsigns

[18:31:07]

sphery:

or both

[18:31:22]

wagnerrp:

there we go, generic filter took them out

[18:32:13]

Some_Person:

iamlindoro: What would you call those channels if not "virtual channels"?

[18:36:50]

** Beirdo drools at the Crystal HD, but decides to pass for now **

[18:37:25]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: still around?

[18:37:34]

kormoc:

aye

[18:38:26]

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[18:38:51]

sphery:

Beirdo: the question is whether you'll pass once Mark does the crystalhd for commflag/transcode stuff :)

[18:39:07]

Beirdo:

he has it in progress, apparently :)

[18:39:12]

wagnerrp:

any thoughts on this? http://www.wagnerrp.com/files/mythweb-upcoming.png

[18:39:26]

Beirdo:

and seriously... not gonna be using the wireless card that comes with my mobo

[18:39:43]

Beirdo:

and what else useful is there for mini-pcie? SSDs... don't care

[18:39:50]

sphery:

heh

[18:40:02]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: same show, same tuner, same channel... shows up twice

[18:40:07]

sphery:

yeah, it would definitely be more useful to a MythTV box than an SSD

[18:40:09]

wagnerrp:

i just checked manually though the bindings

[18:40:12]

wagnerrp:

it only shows up once

[18:40:22]

wagnerrp:

maybe something funky with the caching?

[18:40:35]

Beirdo:

I'd love it if there was a SATA controller available on mini-pcie

[18:40:53]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, could be, can disable it and see if it goes away

[18:41:02]

wagnerrp:

how do i do that?

[18:41:21]

kormoc:

it's in mythweb settings, there's a drop down to select which cache engine

[18:41:25]

sphery:

Beirdo: /and/ you can get hardware decode of 640x360 H.264 @ 300Kbps for high-definition Hulu--and then use a few cores of the CPU to scale it to full screen for playback

[18:41:28]

kormoc:

set to none to disable

[18:41:43]

wagnerrp:

it is currently set to disabled

[18:41:50]

kormoc:

kk, so no cache at all

[18:41:52]

** kormoc sighs **

[18:41:59]

sphery:

(Obviously Adobe doesn't believe in the "profile first, then optimize" mantra)

[18:41:59]

kormoc:

I have no clue why it'd dupe that

[18:43:05]

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[18:43:21]

Gibby:

Beirdo: I think there are some mini pcie that take sata

[18:43:27]

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[18:43:35]

Beirdo:

take sata?

[18:43:39]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: ask and you shall receive... http://www.r3cube.com/r3cube/index.php?act=vi . . . productId=42

[18:43:43]

Beirdo:

I want an stat controller!

[18:43:49]

Beirdo:

sata rather

[18:44:01]

Gibby:

http://www.opentip.com/Electronics-Computers/ . . . 1125039.html

[18:44:14]

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[18:44:15]

sphery:

wagnerrp: are you sure your capturecard.displayname are all good?

[18:44:37]

Gibby:

you won't get full sata speeds b/c you limited to the mini pcie speed

[18:44:50]

sphery:

does Makefile have some requirement that files have no newline at EOF?

[18:45:05]

sphery:

or is it just that a certain dev has a broken editor? :)

[18:45:29]

Beirdo:

there should be a newline, usually

[18:45:58]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: and how exactly would I hook a drive to that?

[18:46:01]

sphery:

OK. Just wondered since diff is showing that my vim added a newline to the perl bindings Makefile

[18:46:21]

sphery:

so guess someone's editor isn't so good at making "normal" files

[18:46:22]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: they did say soldering was necessary

[18:46:27]

wagnerrp:

:)

[18:46:38]

Beirdo:

they should have a flippin SATA port and USB port right on the dang board

[18:47:02]

Beirdo:

not some custom connector with fly wires. :)

[18:47:21]

Beirdo:

lunc

[18:47:28]

sphery:

fly wires... sounds so rap-cool

[18:53:19]

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[19:04:29]

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[19:04:32]

** wagnerrp remembers when 'dope' used to be something you did to cloth **

[19:05:26]

lapion:

Hello, I have problems using ALSA:hw:1,0 as the main capture device for the analog-tv-card

[19:05:31]

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[19:05:32]

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[19:05:46]

lapion:

for some reason I have to run mythtv-backend as logged user..

[19:05:49]

wagnerrp:

get a better analog-tv-card

[19:05:50]

lapion:

or root

[19:06:39]

lapion:

and no matter what group rights I give to mythtv user.. still no sound from analog card

[19:07:52]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: and now you do it to semiconductors? :P

[19:08:40]

wagnerrp:

that silicon is dope, yo!

[19:09:33]

AndyCap:

lapion: some distros use acl's to set permissions for the soundcard for the current logged in user

[19:10:30]

awalls:

Don't let your silicon do phosphorous.

[19:11:36]

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[19:11:43]

wagnerrp:

friends dont let friends introduce impurities

[19:12:41]

awalls:

I need boron for medicinal purposes

[19:12:48]

lapion:

AndyCap, will look into it

[19:14:31]

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[19:44:36]

skd5aner:

Live TV and DVR functionality coming to Apple TV apparently

[19:45:15]

wagnerrp:

but why? recorded tv cuts into their retail market

[19:45:34]

skd5aner:

well, speculation at this point based on a licensing agreement wit ha company that provides guides and guide data

[19:48:21]

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[19:58:09]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: http://www.commell.com.tw/Product/Peripheral/ . . . MPX-3132.HTM

[19:58:14]

Beirdo:

now we're talkin

[19:59:20]

Beirdo:

that's pretty much precisely what I'd be looking for

[19:59:21]

Beirdo:

:)

[19:59:22]

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[19:59:41]

AndyCap:

Beirdo: what would you mount that on?

[20:00:04]

Beirdo:

my motherboard

[20:00:14]

Beirdo:

:)

[20:00:25]

Beirdo:

Zotac H55-ITX

[20:00:39]

Beirdo:

it only has 6 SATA ports

[20:00:41]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:00:51]

Beirdo:

I want to put in 6 disks + DVD-RW

[20:00:55]

AndyCap:

oh

[20:01:12]

Beirdo:

right now, I'm gonna hook up the DVDRW via SATA->USB

[20:01:25]

Beirdo:

but this would be preferable

[20:02:26]

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[20:02:52]

Beirdo:

just have to find somwhere to buy it

[20:04:06]

qupada:

Beirdo: This board? http://tinyurl.com/2cegzg2

[20:04:28]

Beirdo:

yah, but mine is a -C-E

[20:04:30]

qupada:

How are you finding it? I was looking at one of those

[20:04:42]

Beirdo:

I'll be installing it tonight

[20:05:46]

wagnerrp:

you need 8 ports?

[20:06:00]

wagnerrp:

make that 9

[20:06:04]

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[20:06:12]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:06:14]

Beirdo:

9?

[20:06:20]

Beirdo:

oh, the external esata

[20:06:31]

Beirdo:

I need 7 internal if I fill every drive bay

[20:06:46]

wagnerrp:

i thought the case only had 6

[20:06:47]

Beirdo:

and I home the esata does port multiplying

[20:06:50]

neztiti:

guys i cant scan for channels – mythtv 023 twinhan card

[20:06:54]

wagnerrp:

oh... the 5.25" bay

[20:06:56]

Beirdo:

6 PLUS DVD-RW

[20:06:57]

Beirdo:

:)

[20:06:59]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:07:40]

Beirdo:

that little card apparently does FIS

[20:07:47]

Beirdo:

i.e. the chip on it does

[20:08:12]

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[20:08:15]

sphery:

neztiti: what video standard? DVB-T, DVB-C, DVB-S, ATSC, QAM, ...

[20:08:28]

neztiti:

dvb-s

[20:08:37]

Beirdo:

that's kinda a requirement if I want to use an external 5-bay or whatever esata box for expandability later

[20:08:54]

sphery:

neztiti: have you seen http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S

[20:09:22]

neztiti:

sure m8

[20:09:23]

sphery:

that's about as much as I know about DVB-S--that there's a page there that goes into detail :)

[20:09:35]

sphery:

beyond that, I won't be any help

[20:14:24]

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[20:40:46]

justinh:

some nicks leap out as being "they been here & asked that stuff before"

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[21:14:31]

Beirdo:

OK. I just ordered that Mini PCIe SATA card.

[21:14:53]

Beirdo:

called the distributor in NH 7 minutes after closing. :)

[21:16:59]

Beirdo:

anyone want a mini PCI wireless card? :)

[21:17:26]

wagnerrp:

sure, have to figure out a way to run an antenna to it in my laptop though

[21:17:45]

wagnerrp:

oh, you really mean miniPCIe dont you...

[21:17:51]

Beirdo:

err mini pcie

[21:17:59]

Beirdo:

I think I have a minipci one somewhere too

[21:18:08]

Beirdo:

from my old laptop

[21:18:25]

kisak:

what chipset is the wireless?

[21:18:37]

Beirdo:

I'll have to wait until I get home and see :)

[21:18:38]

Beirdo:

heh

[21:18:43]

wagnerrp:

you know, a couple years ago, one of my friends saw the X-Jack card in my laptop

[21:18:56]

wagnerrp:

and was amazed i had one on which the antenna hadnt cracked off yet

[21:21:25]

Beirdo:

heh. gonna have 9 total SATA ports

[21:21:32]

Beirdo:

that's insanity

[21:21:40]

Beirdo:

8 internal, 1 external.

[21:21:54]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[21:22:00]

Beirdo:

although, one of those internals may well get kludged to external

[21:22:08]

kisak:

/dev/sdj is going to feel lonely

[21:22:15]

Beirdo:

the motherboard has 6 internal and 1 external

[21:22:26]

Beirdo:

buying a minipcie card with 2 more internal

[21:22:47]

wagnerrp:

ive got better than 40 between the handful of machines in my house between

[21:22:51]

Beirdo:

it's a touch pricy ($55.0 + shipping)

[21:22:57]

Beirdo:

55.90 rather

[21:23:13]

** kormoc recalls fondly the time he had /dev/sda to /dev/sdbz **

[21:23:16]

Beirdo:

but... there's only one provider... newegg really needs to get on that boat

[21:24:06]

Beirdo:

the same manufacturer makes all sorts of coop minipcie cards

[21:24:48]

Beirdo:

serial, usb, firewire, sata, video out, video capture (broadcom, not sure if it's crystal hd)

[21:24:57]

Beirdo:

s/coop/cool/

[21:25:00]

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[21:26:40]

kisak:

broadcom isn't a particularly *nix friendly company

[21:27:02]

Beirdo:

yeah, but we have drivers for much of their crap

[21:27:44]

Beirdo:

sorry

[21:27:46]

Beirdo:

my bad

[21:27:54]

Beirdo:

not broadcom, it's conexant

[21:28:03]

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[21:28:41]

Beirdo:

CX23885 to be exact

[21:28:43]

iamlindoro:

Broadcom has been awfully forthcoming with CrystalHD, too

[21:28:47]

Beirdo:

I think tha's a lamegrabber

[21:29:11]

kisak:

broadcom loves their binary blobs

[21:30:09]

Beirdo:

oooh, no it isn't. looks like it might be the same chip that's on the HVR1250?

[21:30:15]

Beirdo:

interesting

[21:30:30]

wagnerrp:

the 1250 is a lamegrabber

[21:30:35]

Beirdo:

ah

[21:30:45]

Beirdo:

OK, there we go... riiight.

[21:30:57]

Beirdo:

the 2250 is an extended 2200, not a double 1250?

[21:31:05]

Beirdo:

stupid confusing numbering :)

[21:31:40]

high-rez:

I don't think broadcom providing a binary blob is any worse than nvidia doing the same.

[21:31:53]

Beirdo:

Conexant says it has two MPEG transport stream ports

[21:31:58]

Beirdo:

not so sure, wagnerrp :)

[21:32:50]

Beirdo:

anyways, I don't need it

[21:33:01]

Beirdo:

heh. I'll be using the sata card

[21:33:37]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: 2200 == Euro 2250

[21:33:57]

iamlindoro:

2200 = 2 analog encoders + 2 DVB-T

[21:34:11]

Beirdo:

ahhh

[21:34:27]

Beirdo:

as opposed to 2250, = 2 analog + 2 ATSC/QAM

[21:34:32]

Beirdo:

gotcha

[21:34:42]

kisak:

I assume most settop boxes don't pump out the entire multiplex over firewire, is that correct?

[21:34:52]

kormoc:

%s/most/any/

[21:34:56]

sphery:

kormoc: you sure have a way of putting video cards in weird states

[21:35:09]

kormoc:

sphery, yeah, it's my super power

[21:35:19]

kisak:

%s?

[21:35:25]

kormoc:

kloeri, search and replace

[21:35:30]

kormoc:

in vim

[21:37:18]

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[21:38:23]

sphery:

kormoc: Yet they chose not to feature you in Heroes? That's really sad--it's a better super power than some of the final season Heroes.

[21:38:52]

kormoc:

Heh, yeah, funny how that works out

[21:45:43]

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[21:57:03]

Gibby is now known as Gibby_away

[21:57:12]

** Beirdo does the "UPS delivered" happy dance **

[21:59:37]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: more like 2x ATSC/QAM/NTSC

[21:59:41]

wagnerrp:

its two hybrid tuners

[21:59:48]

wagnerrp:

not four independent tuners

[21:59:52]

Beirdo:

yeah, good distinction

[21:59:55]

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[22:00:05]

Beirdo:

it does make a difference :0

[22:00:32]

wagnerrp:

where as the 1600/1800/1850 actually are two independent tuners

[22:00:44]

Beirdo:

ahh

[22:02:31]

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[22:03:37]

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[22:03:51]

justinh:

sphery: I never caught anything past where they got interrupted by writer's block.. er I mean the strike. Later did they class a 'power' as being able to inhale oxygen & exhale CO2 ?

[22:04:12]

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[22:04:43]

wagnerrp:

transforming molecules? thats alchemy right there

[22:05:15]

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[22:05:28]

sphery:

justinh: yeah, that's about what it was like

[22:05:56]

Beirdo:

or how about converting burritos into methane?

[22:06:02]

justinh:

some series should burn bright & die young. We Brits get that a lot

[22:06:44]

justinh:

when I hear things like that it sometimes makes me feel glad series I like didn't overrun & get ruined

[22:06:48]

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[22:07:16]

Criggie:

justinh: you bugger – I have a series 3 LR and thought I'd joined the wrong channel

[22:07:40]

justinh:

LR? :-z

[22:08:07]

Criggie:

landrover – from the UK

[22:08:08]

kormoc:

L&O:LA is gonna be awesome!

[22:08:45]

justinh:

ah. oh well. nevermind then :-)

[22:09:54]

justinh:

ah bugger. it's bedtime already

[22:10:13]

kormoc:

caffeine

[22:11:47]

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[22:13:08]

Beirdo:

sphery: you got onto page 2 on ohloh!

[22:13:37]

** Beirdo is 6 behind jdanner. **

[22:18:56]

sphery:

Beirdo: woohoo!

[22:19:01]

** sphery goes to look **

[22:19:26]

sphery:

wow, I'm the only rank 7 guy there...

[22:19:35]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:20:06]

sphery:

I wonder if I can just send them some granola bars to get my rank up

[22:20:36]

sphery:

I could get a box, send half to them--to put me at 10 kudos--and still have half a box to eat myself

[22:20:47]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:21:07]

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[22:21:23]

sphery:

Beirdo: so you do realize that my complaining about the Perl install was only to help you catch jdanner, right?

[22:21:26]

kisak:

anyone notice the alliance between Silicondust and Hauppauge?

[22:21:33]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[22:21:34]

** sphery does it all for Beirdo's stats **

[22:21:46]

sphery:

kisak: ? article?

[22:21:50]

Beirdo:

it gives me a good excuse to close up on him

[22:21:53]

kisak:

http://www.silicondust.com/company/news/

[22:22:01]

kisak:

Sept. 10

[22:22:12]

sphery:

interesting

[22:23:45]

kisak:

it seems Hauppauge will benefit more from this

[22:23:49]

sphery:

[22:24:25]

sphery:

[22:24:48]

sphery:

On first read, I thought they were saying some usb device would provide CableCARD support for all their existing tuners.

[22:24:59]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:25:05]

Beirdo:

that would be impressive

[22:25:24]

sphery:

was thinking, that's some mighty strong fairy^H^H^H^H^HSilicon dust they're using

[22:25:58]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:26:38]

sphery:

the marketing folks did a very good job with that PR... Completely truthful, but easy to mistake for something /much/ more interesting

[22:26:53]

sphery:

still, though, it's cool that Hauppauge will have a CableCARD card, too

[22:27:01]

sphery:

more options = good

[22:27:27]

Beirdo:

except in MythTV setup

[22:27:29]

sphery:

just hope all the MythTV OCUR code works across the HDHR and Hauppauge product line

[22:27:36]

sphery:

heh, yeah, that's true

[22:28:19]

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[22:28:30]

Beirdo:

oh, I'm just an average white suburbanite slob...

[22:28:45]

kisak:

good to know

[22:28:55]

** Beirdo slaps Denis Leary for putting that song in my head **

[22:29:08]

kormoc:

sorry, you're pretty solidly urban

[22:29:27]

Beirdo:

I know, (so is he), but that's the way the song goes :)

[22:30:09]

Beirdo:

something like it anyways

[22:30:31]

sphery:

kormoc: perhaps even "super-urbanite" (I'm guessing he's in an above-ground-level apartment, not a below-ground-level apartment.)

[22:30:37]

kisak:

since the last time I looked that way in the market, Silicondust compressed their prototype to a single PCB and added another tuner to the mix

[22:30:51]

kormoc:

sphery, it's true

[22:31:06]

sphery:

isn't "super urbanite" the kind that makes Superman evil?

[22:31:14]

Beirdo:

... but sometimes that just ain't enough to keep a man like interested... No, I've gotta go out and have fun at someone else's expense...

[22:31:42]

Beirdo:

anyways... I'll stop before I hit the best part... as it's not a channel-friendly song...

[22:32:06]

Beirdo:

of course, being Denis Leary, that shouldn't surprise

[22:32:58]

sphery:

That reminds me... Now I'm sad. This is the year that Smallville will surpass Stargate SG-1 as the longest-consecutively-running SciFi series.

[22:33:22]

Beirdo:

boo

[22:33:26]

kisak:

whoa

[22:33:33]

kormoc:

sorry, Smallville is not scifi

[22:33:46]

sphery:

Well, in the stats world it seems to be

[22:33:51]

kisak:

talk about sending records to the dogs

[22:33:54]

kormoc:

LIES!

[22:33:56]

sphery:

Definitely not SF, but may qualify under SciFi.

[22:34:33]

sphery:

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/03/09/smallvil . . . orld-record/

[22:36:10]

Criggie:

its alternative history not sci fi

[22:36:24]

Criggie:

there is no science in smallville

[22:36:37]

Criggie:

"aliens" do not make something sci fi.

[22:36:41]

sphery:

you mean you can't grind up rocks and make a potion to inject people with?

[22:36:52]

sphery:

to solve all sorts of ills or add new abilities

[22:36:53]

Criggie:

frankenstein is more sci fi than smallville is.

[22:37:24]

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[22:37:30]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:37:45]

Beirdo:

so, it's more Fi than SciFi, but, whatever :)

[22:37:53]

sphery:

and in other interesting news: http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/09/19/intel-se . . . essor-power/

[22:37:55]

kisak:

force smallville to get moved to drama

[22:38:00]

Beirdo:

can we reclassify it to SuckyFi?

[22:38:18]

sphery:

how long do you think someone hacks an upgrade (which no one would have attempted to do had Intel left well enough alone)

[22:38:25]

sphery:

think until

[22:39:43]

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[22:39:46]

kisak:

oh wait ... these days they call it a lame syfy instead of something sensible

[22:40:56]

sphery:

I'd always heard that SF is the true "hardcore" science fiction genre and SciFi was a more-permissive genre. I will agree that SyFy (what is it they're showing now? wrestling or something?) is seemingly unrelated to either form.

[22:41:28]

Beirdo:

they started with it before the name change too

[22:41:34]

sphery:

wow

[22:41:53]

Beirdo:

according to our favorite pack of lies – Wikipedia

[22:42:01]

kisak:

they're running out of creative ideas

[22:42:11]

Beirdo:

whatever

[22:42:52]

sphery:

why not make a nice science fiction story about a man with special powers to ruin video cards?

[22:42:57]

Beirdo:

all of hollywood, etc has decided that creativity is overrated, let's just remake old stuff

[22:43:08]

Beirdo:

hehe :)

[22:43:09]

sphery:

Hawaii-5–0

[22:43:33]

sphery:

The A-Team

[22:43:52]

Beirdo:

all the comic book-related movies

[22:44:03]

sphery:

yeah

[22:44:19]

Beirdo:

not to mention Oceans 11, etc

[22:44:57]

Beirdo:

I think even Avatar was rumored to be basically a redo of something older

[22:45:12]

Beirdo:

but with much better special effects, of course

[22:45:22]

sphery:

Pocahontas

[22:45:43]

Beirdo:

yeah, that story's been done to death

[22:45:50]

sphery:

yeah

[22:46:00]

sphery:

http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2010/01/james-cam . . . s-pocahontas

[22:46:47]

Beirdo:

and... Pochahontas via Disney's a redo anyways

[22:47:01]

sphery:

yeah

[22:47:02]

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[22:47:04]

Beirdo:

Disney sucks for destroying old stories and Disney-izing them

[22:47:24]

sphery:

someone else mentioned an older non-disney movie , but I can't remember which

[22:48:48]

Beirdo:

that and Disney thinks that poker belongs on ESPN

[22:49:03]

sphery:

have to admit that a couple of the remakes were better than originals... I liked the new BSG better.

[22:49:22]

sphery:

haven't decided about V, but I'm hopeful

[22:49:39]

sphery:

(though pretty sure that it will be cancelled this year, if it hasn'be been, already)

[22:49:44]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:49:52]

Beirdo:

we need Lay & Order: Seattle

[22:49:57]

Beirdo:

Law rather

[22:50:11]

sphery:

heh

[22:50:12]

Beirdo:

be all about protestors and potheads, I'm sure

[22:50:41]

sphery:

I have to admit that I'm one of the few people in the world who actually seems to enjoy watching CSI: Miami--and much of why I like it is because it's "close to home"

[22:50:48]

kormoc:

City Hall claims that the increase in pot related arrests is not an actual increase

[22:50:52]

Beirdo:

I like it too, sometimes

[22:50:54]

sphery:

(and, speaking of which Close to Home was a pretty good show)

[22:50:55]

kormoc:

it's just being reported more accurately

[22:50:56]

high-rez:

Beirdo: He man, thats like not cool. Not all people in seattle protest, man.

[22:51:06]

high-rez:

ahh crap, I fudged that. S/He/Hey

[22:51:08]

Beirdo:

kormoc: yeah, it's because THEY are the ones smokin it

[22:51:37]

Beirdo:

high-rez: yeah, some of us would rather run em over with a bus

[22:51:55]

Beirdo:

protesting between work and home is annoying

[22:52:07]

Beirdo:

and as I go past the courthouse...

[22:52:18]

kormoc:

you need to get a bunch of folks to protest the protest

[22:52:25]

Beirdo:

that's when I get lots of reading time on the bus.

[22:52:28]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:52:38]

Beirdo:

with water hoses, preferrable

[22:52:38]

high-rez:

<--- one upon a time protestor

[22:52:49]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:52:56]

kormoc:

I was in DC for the WTO protests

[22:52:58]

Beirdo:

I had enough ofit when I lived in Ottawa

[22:53:06]

sphery:

wow, wonder if stuartm will become a Mageia user: http://mageia.org/

[22:53:14]

Beirdo:

protestors would bugger up downtown all the time

[22:53:22]

Beirdo:

much like DC, I'd imagine

[22:53:37]

Beirdo:

so here in Seattle, it's nothing new, and usually better :)

[22:53:38]

kormoc:

we'd do lock boxes and block large chunks, aye

[22:53:51]

kormoc:

we just stopped all traffic *dead* for the day

[22:54:01]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:54:11]

Beirdo:

good excuse to stay home and get durnk

[22:54:39]

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[22:54:54]

Beirdo:

it's nice that people are allowed to protest... just wish they'd do it where it doesn't inconvenience ME :)

[22:54:57]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:55:14]

Beirdo:

yay!

[22:55:19]

Beirdo:

DVDRW delivered

[22:55:26]

Beirdo:

got a stack of 4 boxes waiting for me

[22:55:29]

kormoc:

the hope is you'll be so inconvenienced you'd go crazy and kill the people we don't like!

[22:55:35]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:55:46]

Beirdo:

you do know that it usually works teh other way

[22:55:59]

Beirdo:

we'd go crazy and hurl stuff at protestors :0

[22:56:10]

Beirdo:

insults, usually

[22:56:11]

kormoc:

that's okay, we just ignore it and eventually you go really insane

[22:56:15]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:56:41]

Beirdo:

besides... we'll never topple WTO, etc.

[22:56:48]

Beirdo:

dream on :)

[22:56:57]

kormoc:

ooh

[22:56:59]

Beirdo:

it's a lovely dream, though, isn't it?

[22:57:04]

kormoc:

it's all about the drunk/high hippy chicks

[22:57:16]

Beirdo:

hahahaha

[22:57:19]

Beirdo:

good point

[22:58:03]

Beirdo:

of course, back in the day, my dad got on a short list for being at a protest in front of the Russian Embassy once

[22:58:06]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:58:20]

Beirdo:

he says he wasn't protesting, just talking with the protestors

[22:58:42]

Beirdo:

but the RCMP came to talk to him after when he got home. Shouldn't have parked nearby

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Beirdo:

gotta love the 60s

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[23:24:46]

Beirdo:

OK, meeting time

[23:25:14]

sphery:

Father Time? Amazing you got an appointment with him.

[23:25:25]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:26:52]

kisak:

could you get him to slow down a little, he's getting up there in the years

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[23:52:51]

Bmyers:

ok, so i watch some of a recorded tv prg, go back to the menu, and its gone

[23:52:57]

sphery:

kormoc: heh

[23:53:12]

sphery:

Bmyers: how much is some?

[23:53:21]

Bmyers:

i see it in previously recorded but not in watch recordings

[23:53:30]

Bmyers:

may 70%

[23:53:34]

Bmyers:

maybe 70%

[23:53:43]

sphery:

Bmyers: sounds like you have it set to a) automatically mark shows as watched and b) not show Watched shows in Watch Recordings

[23:53:57]

sphery:

Bmyers: MENU|Change Group View, then check the box next to Watched

[23:54:09]

sphery:

if there is no box for Watched, change themes

[23:54:19]

sphery:

then do as above, then feel free to switch themes back

[23:54:32]

skd5aner:

heh "change themes", great

[23:54:35]

Bmyers:

menu while in watch recordings?

[23:54:49]

sphery:

Bmyers: yeah, good point--forgot to say that :)

[23:54:51]

kormoc:

and mysql 5.5 has reached RC

[23:55:12]

sphery:

kormoc: fun... we'll have to fix the date format issues one of these days

[23:55:35]

sphery:

best fix is likely to just use prepared queries for all date values...

[23:55:37]

Bmyers:

"show watched programs" is checked

[23:55:47]

sphery:

the hard part being finding those queries that don't

[23:56:51]

Bmyers:

in the change view menu, show recorded is checked

[23:57:42]

sphery:

show recorded?

[23:57:50]

sphery:

should look something like: http://imagebin.ca/view/yKroghx8.html

[23:57:52]

high-rez:

Woot, an svn update!

[23:58:09]

Bmyers:

yup. thats the one

[23:58:22]

sphery:

and which do you have checked?

[23:58:33]

sphery:

you're not talking about Live TV, either, are you?

[23:58:44]

sphery:

if so, check "Show Live TV"

[23:59:10]

Bmyers:

no, not live tv

[23:59:15]

Bmyers:

previously recorded

[23:59:26]

Bmyers:

show watched is checked

[23:59:50]

kormoc:

did it expire?

[23:59:56]

sphery:

that's possible

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