MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (184):

abqjp, adante, aloril, And4713, andreax, Anduin, AndyCap, anykey__, AriX_, at0m, Azelphur, baffle, banyan_, bbee, Beirdo, bestis, bjd_, blizzard`, BLZbubba, bobgill, brfransen, btwe_afk, Caeles, cafuego, Caliban, Captain_Murdoch, Casper0082, cesman, chainsawbike, ChanServ, christ_, clever, ComradeHaz`, Cougar, cromag, croppa, curtlee, cynicismic, dagar, dansushi, dashcloud, Dave123, dewman, dibbz, Digdilem, DjMadness, dlblog, dmb_, dmz, dougl, draioch, drindt, dustybin, elmojo, eNeRGi, EvilGuru, fedorared, felipe`, Floppe, foobum, GadgetWisdomGuru, ghoti, Gibby_class, Greek-Boy, gregl, GreyFoxx, grokky, growler, Gumby, hackman_, Heliwr, high-rez, highzeth, Hylas, Igg-man, ikonia, inordkuo, i_is_cat, J-e-f-f-A, jamesd_laptop, jams, janneg, jarle, jbrett, jduggan_, jhp, jk-, joe_k_, jpabq, jpabq|, jstenback, justdave, justinh, k-man, kabtoffe, KaZeR, keith4, kenni, KjetilK, kloeri, kormoc, kothog, KraMer, kurre_, larrikin, Led-Hed, Linkeroo, Loshki, lotia, Lt_Dan_, mag0o, Maliuta, MavT, Metoer, mhentges, mikeones, MilkBoy, mrec, MythLogBot, mzb, npm, nuonguy, oobe, ozatomic, Patina, paul-h, penghb, pheld, pigeon, pizzledizzle, Pluribus, poodyp, Prost, purserj, quicksilver, RDV_Linux, rhpot1991, RobertLaptop, robert___, rooaus, rushfan, ruskie, RyeBrye, ServerSage, shadash, Shadow__X, sid3windr, simcop2387, skd5aner, Slim-Kimbo, sphery, sphex, spinull, Splat1, squidly, sulx, sutula, sybolt, tank-man, tgm4883, th1, thefRont, Therock_, ThisOtherGuy, toeb, Tomas-, tomaw, tomimo, totalanni, tris, troyt, Typosu, Varro, wagnerrp, waxhead, weta, Wicked, wylie_, xand, XLV, yatesy, zand, zzpat, _charly_
Tuesday, September 7th, 2010, 00:07 UTC
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[00:48:36] seicherlbob: I know this is not VDR, but can someone in here help me out? my remote is not working (irw shows everything, but the VDR wont recognize it).
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[00:49:35] kormoc: I really doubt anyone here can help with that
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[00:51:03] wagnerrp: i would suggest #vdr or #lirc
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[00:54:59] seicherlbob: ok, thanks.
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[01:35:41] Beirdo: go, Comcast
[01:38:21] sphery: heh
[01:39:35] wagnerrp: youre not mocking the service provider of one certain developer are you?
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[01:42:40] Beirdo: hey, he doesn't own them
[01:42:49] Beirdo: hehe
[01:43:46] Beirdo: well, there's libmythtv
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[01:45:54] sphery: jk-: do you have auto-builds enabled? http://www.mythbuntu.org/auto-builds
[01:46:18] sphery: jk-: getting the 0.23-fixes version (which might be called 0.23.1 or something) would update you to current 0.23-fixes
[01:46:53] jk-: sphery: no, I'll get that installed on the new machine..
[01:46:54] sphery: meaning activating auto-builds and selecting the 0.23.1 auto-builds (definitely not the unstable/trunk/development one)
[01:47:20] sphery: I highly recommend updating the known, buggy, not-ready-for-release version that ships with 10.04
[01:47:40] jk-: oh, ok :)
[01:47:42] sphery: we didn't have things ready in time for them to get the real 0.23 into 10.04
[01:47:52] sphery: and what they have in there is unfortunately very broken
[01:49:08] jk-: sphery: I should upgrade both frontend and backend?
[01:49:08] sphery: jk-: anyway, I'm half remembering some fixes to scanning in mythmusic and/or mythvideo, so that's why I'd really like you to check with current before opening a ticket
[01:49:16] sphery: jk-: right, you'll have to upgrade both
[01:49:23] jk-: ok
[01:49:32] sphery: but that's a good thing--since there are bugs in both the backend and frontend parts of the pre-release version :)
[01:50:45] sphery: we've fixed a ton of bugs in 0.23-fixes.
[01:51:03] sphery: I'd give you an estimate of how many, but Trac is running slower than molasses in winter right now
[01:51:23] Beirdo: again?
[01:51:32] Beirdo: I guess it wants a break too
[01:51:33] Beirdo: hehe
[01:51:36] sphery: seems fine, now
[01:52:29] sphery: jk-: looks like about 210 changes to 0.23-fixes--and what Ubuntu has is actually from before 0.23-fixes was created
[01:53:07] sphery: those changes being bug fixes
[01:53:38] Beirdo: omg
[01:53:52] Beirdo: www.getmybff.com
[01:54:21] Beirdo: my brain is withering witnessing this commercial from the other side of the room
[01:54:34] sphery: heh
[01:54:47] Beirdo: best... fish... friends
[01:55:44] jk-: sphery: looks like the repos deb needs a dependency on bc
[01:57:02] sphery: bc the calculation lib?
[01:57:20] jk-: sphery: the calculation shell util, yeah
[01:57:53] sphery: used by the deb itself? pretty sure we don't use that in Myth
[01:58:02] Beirdo: whatever the heck for?
[01:59:21] jk-: hang on...
[01:59:48] wagnerrp: GAH!!
[02:00:09] wagnerrp: i just reinstalled my parent's computer
[02:00:17] wagnerrp: so ive been updating/recovering things
[02:00:22] Beirdo: here, have a beer
[02:00:25] sphery: I'll bet wagnerrp wrote a bash-based set of bindings that use bc
[02:00:34] wagnerrp: im upstairs, logged in remotely, doing stuff
[02:00:44] wagnerrp: dad logs in, kicks me out
[02:00:52] jk-: Setting up mythbuntu-repos (8.1–0ubuntu0+mythbuntu) ...
[02:00:53] jk-: /var/lib/dpkg/info/mythbuntu-repos.config: 120: bc: not found
[02:01:05] wagnerrp: he wants to put a screensaver on, because when im logged in remotely, apparently it will not activate one
[02:01:20] sphery: jk-: yeah, must be their deb... You'll need to file a bug report on launchpad for that one
[02:01:21] wagnerrp: so i tell him it wasnt activating, because i was using it remotely
[02:01:28] wagnerrp: so he gets off
[02:01:40] wagnerrp: and proceeds to close everything i was working on because you shouldnt leave things open
[02:01:45] jk-: sphery: do you know which lp project owns this?
[02:01:52] sphery: wagnerrp: heh...
[02:01:52] Beirdo: gah
[02:02:01] Beirdo: parents...
[02:02:25] sphery: jk-: https://launchpad.net/mythbuntu , perhaps?
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[02:03:09] jk-: sphery: yep, thanks
[02:04:06] sphery: wagnerrp: I have to admire your motivation... there's a good reason my parents use a Dish Network DVR instead of MythTV (and that's a big part of it)
[02:04:44] sphery: I would guess I'd have had similar issues if I were to try to maintain a Myth system for them
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[02:05:29] sphery: of course, I still can't convince them how to use a DVR, so they just do Live TV, anyway
[02:07:42] Beirdo: heh
[02:09:01] Beirdo: wow, I'm on Saturday's recordings
[02:13:28] iamlindoro: Heh... the PS3 modchip thing has been ported to an open source stack/USB project kit... and consequently ported to Palm Pre, Android, iPhone, and N900... whoops
[02:13:49] Beirdo: heh
[02:13:53] iamlindoro: Heh... bummer for Sony *and* the modchip guys... you can plug your iPhone in and hack your PS3
[02:14:28] Beirdo: how the heck did that get past the Apple censors?
[02:14:36] Beirdo: or do ya need to jailbreak first?
[02:14:52] iamlindoro: runs on a jailbroken phone... which you can do by simply browsing to "jailbreakme.com" on your iphone, heh
[02:15:02] Beirdo: ahh
[02:15:16] Beirdo: tis legal... just breaks yer warranty
[02:15:26] sphery: though apple fixed the jailbreakme bug days after it came out
[02:15:42] iamlindoro: only if you are on their newest firmware
[02:15:52] sphery: yeah
[02:16:34] sphery: also, the open source version of the PS3 hack only allows you to run a Linux-based OS on the PS3, right?
[02:16:50] iamlindoro: Evidently not
[02:17:15] iamlindoro: Appears to be the same as the modchip one
[02:17:27] sphery: guess you're right
[02:17:42] sphery: the initial version did not allow use of "backup" games, etc
[02:18:09] iamlindoro: appropriate to put it in quotes ;)
[02:18:14] sphery: yes
[02:18:33] sphery: and the real reason I wish that it wasn't released under an open source license
[02:18:44] iamlindoro: Yeah
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[02:20:48] iamlindoro: On one hand you can rest easy that it will kill the paid market on modchips... on the other hand...
[02:21:22] sphery: oh, guess the original version also allowed "backups", too... I misinterpreted the "does not allow backups of bluray movies , dvd movies , or past consoles games" in the article I read
[02:22:06] sphery: yeah, and now those Aussies can get their hands on a hack for PS3 despite the illegality of mod chips, there....
[02:22:22] sphery: oh, wait, that's what their Great Barrier firewall is supposed to stop...
[02:22:35] iamlindoro: People's Republic of Australia
[02:22:43] sphery: heh
[02:23:10] kormoc: I think the great barrier firewall is what's preventing those duck billed platypus from plotting to take over the world!
[02:23:41] sphery: woah, that changes everything
[02:23:48] sphery: Now I'm a supporter
[02:24:07] iamlindoro: Haha
[02:24:08] sphery: only thing worse than letting the machines take over the world would be letting the platypuses take over the world
[02:24:19] kormoc: Indeed
[02:24:21] Beirdo: freaky little animals :)
[02:24:26] iamlindoro: And for the old school: PS3 hack on the TI calculator: http://brandonw.net/ps3jb/
[02:25:11] iamlindoro: Can I use this to play backups?
[02:25:11] iamlindoro: No, this jailbreak is based upon the PSGroove source code, which does not support piracy either.
[02:25:16] iamlindoro: so looks like maybe you were right, sphery ?
[02:25:28] sphery: oh... cool
[02:25:33] wagnerrp: i wonder if they have a People's State Health Administration
[02:25:39] wagnerrp: i doubt it
[02:25:40] ** jk- would just like to run linux on the thing again :) **
[02:25:56] wagnerrp: jk-: out of curiosity, what would linux on a PS3 get you?
[02:26:07] Beirdo: geek points
[02:26:12] kormoc: The PERFECT frontend!
[02:26:13] jk-: wagnerrp: I'd get my CBE development environment back
[02:26:15] ** kormoc dodges the kick **
[02:26:22] Beirdo: hehe
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[02:26:42] iamlindoro: whoops, I missed
[02:26:45] ** kormoc laughs **
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[02:27:13] ** kormoc eyes another mac mini **
[02:27:17] wagnerrp: jk-: i have to believe anyone who can afford the multi-thousand dollar cell blades could afford a proper DE
[02:27:20] ** kormoc wonders if he should or not **
[02:27:39] sphery: iamlindoro: so, yeah, the foss one is not allowing backup stuff, the other one does
[02:28:00] jk-: wagnerrp: I can't afford multi-thousand dollar cell blades, and don't have anywhere to put a bladecenter :)
[02:28:09] ** iamlindoro only knows what he has read on /. **
[02:28:36] wagnerrp: then what do you need a cell DE for? what are you going to develop for?
[02:29:10] jk-: wagnerrp: I'm the maintainer of the CBE kernel/userspace interface
[02:30:17] jk-: kinda hard to test code without hardware at the moment :/
[02:30:37] Beirdo: sounds like an odd choice of projects to maintain ... having no hardware :)
[02:30:41] wagnerrp: i had assumed IBM funded all that work
[02:31:04] wagnerrp: considering without it, there is relatively little worth for their blade systems
[02:31:05] jk-: wagnerrp: yeah, I started on that when I worked for IBM
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[02:33:37] wagnerrp: IMHO, the Cell platform just doesnt have enough memory to be interesting
[02:33:47] jk-: sphery: ok, new packages installed, still segfaulting
[02:33:55] wagnerrp: even the blades are limited to a GB or two arent they?
[02:34:00] jk-: wagnerrp: 32G
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[02:34:35] sphery: jk-: ok, so I guess we still need a fix.  :) once you get the backtrace, feel free to file a ticket. Thanks for checking (and enjoy the less-buggy MythTV version :)
[02:34:45] wagnerrp: oh? i had looked at them maybe two years ago, and i though i saw they were limited to 2GB per processor, and usually 2 processors per blade
[02:34:48] sphery: and thanks in advance for the backtrace
[02:35:02] wagnerrp: or was that just the base model?
[02:35:23] jk-: wagnerrp: that may have been the original ones
[02:35:47] jk-: still limited at two CBEs (four PPE threads, 16 SPEs) per blade though
[02:36:01] sphery: I think they recently went up to 40-bit memory addressing, IIRC
[02:36:07] wagnerrp: it may have been limited by the size of available RIMMs at the time
[02:36:10] sphery: (though I have absolutely no cell experience)
[02:36:22] sphery: no, wait, that was ARM
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[02:40:29] kormoc: I should start selling used 1tb drives... ugh... got too many of them laying around
[02:42:12] [R]: lol
[02:42:38] kormoc: I sent my brother 8 of them and I still have 7 sitting here out of rotation
[02:45:10] Beirdo: oh jeez
[02:45:40] Beirdo: I could likely unload a few from ya if the price is right, etc
[02:45:49] kormoc: Heh, kk
[02:46:02] [R]: i need IDE drives
[02:46:09] kormoc: I'll see if my bro still needs some and let you know
[02:46:18] Beirdo: sounds good
[02:46:33] kormoc: I have at least 3 more leaving rotation in a few weeks, so should have plenty
[02:46:37] Beirdo: my mythbox is running on a 500G + 160G :)
[02:46:38] iamlindoro: dickwads on the users list...
[02:46:49] Beirdo: iamlindoro: yup, good place for them
[02:46:50] kormoc: [R], you need a general upgrade
[02:47:06] iamlindoro: oh, my bad, they're on -dev, grumble...
[02:47:12] [R]: kormoc: haha, no... i only have 2 sata ports on my mb
[02:47:16] Beirdo: oh. well that's different
[02:47:31] kormoc: [R], upgrade! or new sata controller! :P
[02:47:35] [R]: but i still have like 600gb free
[02:47:44] [R]: i dont need to worry about a new hd for a while
[02:47:56] Beirdo: ooh, starting mythplkugin compile
[02:48:12] ** Beirdo glars at his fingers **
[02:48:21] [R]: blah... its 748... i really need to eat
[02:50:13] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: the worst part is that ive spent the past year filling out protocol documentation on the wiki and developing the python bindings for the explicit purpose of making it /easier/ to write 3rd party code
[02:50:34] iamlindoro: wagnerrp, yeah, I know-- people just want to believe what they want to beleive
[02:51:47] Beirdo: yeah, have stupid, will post!
[02:55:25] Beirdo: oh, and now apparently the purpose of open source is to let anyone mess with your data however they want
[02:56:32] iamlindoro: The most irritating point for me is that people want to drop the UI based on UI flash alone-- but they don't think about the complication of teaching another application to speak the myth protocol, and deal with storage groups, and deal with our backend data, which would take *years* to solidly port to any other app
[02:56:50] iamlindoro: At which point you could have long since made myth's UI the best out there, with half as much work
[02:56:59] sphery: iamlindoro: you know, it wouldn't take much to replace all of MythTV with a properly-designed application
[02:57:05] iamlindoro: heh
[02:57:11] sphery: I saw a drawing somewhere... with stick men... let me see if I can find it
[02:57:12] iamlindoro: allow me to demonstrate with some stick figures
[02:57:19] sphery: lol
[02:57:20] Beirdo: yeah
[02:57:52] Beirdo: if ya don't like the themes, and you have a design bone... make new themes :)
[02:57:54] sphery: it's easy to think it's easy to replace something when you have no clue what that something you're wanting to replace is
[02:57:57] kormoc: You guys aren't doing what I want! YOU GUYS DON'T UNDERSTAND OPEN SOURCE! *cry*
[02:58:12] sphery: kormoc: quiet--and back to work on that Python port of MythWeb
[02:58:49] ** kormoc sniffles and gets back to snake wrangling **
[02:58:57] Beirdo: gah
[02:59:04] Beirdo: TMI :)
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[03:00:24] sphery: Beirdo: exactly... if these people just spent a bit of time actually trying to theme with the new mythui, they'd be quite amazed at how easy it is to make a UI that's comparable to (or a dead rip off of) X**C
[03:00:48] iamlindoro: Admittedly their "scripted" stuff like animations is not possible yet-- and I do want that also
[03:00:49] Beirdo: I can believe it
[03:00:52] sphery: where "easy" doesn't factor in the effort involved in creating a good theme
[03:01:04] iamlindoro: but we've at least *talked* about accomplishing that kind of thing, so it's not *that* impossible
[03:01:12] sphery: which is not a myth/x**c difference
[03:02:09] iamlindoro: flashy UI in myth is not that far off-- it comes down to a) improve the GL painter a bit more, b) settle on a script language to derive the animation from, which will likely be some QtScript subclass, c) write the GL effects
[03:02:22] iamlindoro: tadaaaa
[03:02:56] kormoc: Animated Flames here we come!
[03:02:58] iamlindoro: It's just that gbee is compeltely burnt out and hasn't touched MythUI in some time, and nobody has stepped up to take his place
[03:03:07] Beirdo: and d) possibly upgrade the remaining old hardware that's just too busted anymore to run it :)
[03:03:27] iamlindoro: d) may just mean making the Qt painter ignore the scripted stuff and let them use a gimped version
[03:03:34] Beirdo: yup
[03:03:53] Beirdo: if ya want flashy, ya gotta make sure you got the machine :)
[03:04:08] Beirdo: most of us have upgraded to be able to do HD anyways
[03:04:18] Beirdo: at least of those who SAY anything :)
[03:04:18] sphery: so, like an atom, right?
[03:04:32] Beirdo: an atom with VDPAU, sure
[03:04:35] sphery: I.e. a CPU with absolutely no overhead should be fine
[03:04:51] kormoc: a single core Atom with a via chipset and a sis video card!
[03:04:55] Beirdo: should be
[03:05:00] sphery: vdpau won't help with animations, though, will it?
[03:05:06] kormoc: sphery, not a bit
[03:05:07] iamlindoro: nope
[03:05:18] Beirdo: well, you'll have working OpenGL
[03:05:29] sphery: yeah, that's better than the EPIA's out there, but still
[03:05:36] kormoc: I have to say
[03:05:40] sphery: no CPU for orchestrating the animation
[03:05:46] kormoc: the atom users seem to be a 50/50 split on ion platform or not
[03:06:00] Beirdo: yeah
[03:06:09] sphery: the worst part is that now there are vendors calling non-ION system ION
[03:06:23] sphery: and so the ION fanbois are saying, "see it's great"
[03:06:40] Beirdo: who defines what "ION" means definitively?
[03:06:42] sphery: (granted, they're still low-performance chips--Celery--but better than Atom)
[03:06:45] sphery: nvidia
[03:07:05] ** sphery looks for an authoritative definition **
[03:07:06] kormoc: iamlindoro, do you know offhand if you can do random selection of images in mythui yet?
[03:07:23] iamlindoro: kormoc, sure, I wrote it-- just pass the imagetype tag a directory instead of a filename
[03:07:35] sphery: kormoc: reference Arclight
[03:07:37] kormoc: iamlindoro, snaz, I thought I remembered you talking bout that
[03:07:54] sphery: and, specifically, Arclight/Backgrounds
[03:07:59] iamlindoro: yar
[03:08:01] sphery: just throw some images in that dir
[03:08:06] kormoc: snazzy
[03:08:14] kormoc: I should do a theme
[03:08:15] tgm4883: jk-, are you still around?
[03:08:25] iamlindoro: Which was meant to defuse the complains about the BGs... see how well that worked?  ;)
[03:08:25] Beirdo: from what I've seen... ION refers to the GPU, not the CPU.
[03:08:31] jk-: tgm4883: yep
[03:08:34] kormoc: hehe
[03:08:47] iamlindoro: ION is meant to be the pairing of a 9400 chipset with an atom processor
[03:08:52] tgm4883: jk-, I just responded to your bug report. Can you do an "apt-get update" then "apt-get install mythbuntu-repos"
[03:09:01] iamlindoro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Ion
[03:09:08] Beirdo: http://www.nvidia.com/object/sff_ion.html
[03:09:09] tgm4883: that should get you the new version, which shouldn't need bc anymore
[03:09:15] Beirdo: how about we go to the source
[03:09:16] jk-: tgm4883: sure, just let me get this (other) bug files
[03:09:18] jk-: *filed
[03:09:18] Beirdo: ION is the GPU
[03:09:24] tgm4883: ok
[03:09:52] Beirdo: now it may ALSO refer to the Atom + ION setups
[03:09:56] iamlindoro: Beirdo, that's revisionist
[03:10:04] wagnerrp: no, ION is the combination of the 9400M+some_atom
[03:10:15] Beirdo: heh
[03:10:21] iamlindoro: They may now want to rebrand anything 9400 as ION, but that's not what it was supposed to be originally
[03:10:30] wagnerrp: discrete cards and systems with other processors do not count as ION
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[03:10:57] sphery: wagnerrp: do you see an authoritative definition?
[03:11:17] Beirdo: wagnerrp: well, that doesn't seem to be what nvidia is saying, so revisionist or not... I can see why people are saying otherwise now
[03:11:21] sphery: I had found the page Beirdo linked, too, but it completely ignores any true description
[03:11:52] Beirdo: they even list ION-based graphics cards
[03:12:03] sphery: so is this like Fermi
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[03:12:13] sphery: where to some it means an HPC design
[03:12:24] sphery: but to others it's just a GPU using the same core as the HPC Fermi
[03:12:37] Beirdo: yeah, it's a marketing-fuddled term
[03:12:51] sphery: anyway, if you can get "ION" with Core 2 Duo, then I'm all for ION on the frontencd
[03:12:59] sphery: and even on the frontend
[03:13:22] sphery: (or backend for that matter--though it's completely unnecessary there)
[03:13:22] iamlindoro: This MacNean Tyrell guy is running trunk and paying no attention whatsoever to commits
[03:13:38] iamlindoro: I'm on like my fifth answered question for him about trunk today, and every single answer has been in commits
[03:15:01] sphery: why should it be his responsibility to keep up with development on the unstable development branch
[03:15:05] sphery: he's helping out by testing it
[03:15:06] kormoc: heh
[03:15:24] kormoc: I don't really find a lot of the X**C themes that visually appealing
[03:15:27] iamlindoro: This time I just told him that the answer to his question is in the commit that he's asking about
[03:15:36] iamlindoro: I think many of them are lovely
[03:15:43] iamlindoro: (the XBMC themes)
[03:15:56] iamlindoro: But our player is Waaaayyyyyyy more stable and capable
[03:16:00] Beirdo: this is why a variety of theme types is good :)
[03:16:04] iamlindoro: and in the end, you've gotta be able to play the media you organize
[03:16:09] jk-: tgm4883: no new package available
[03:16:10] Beirdo: we all got our tastes :)
[03:16:18] tgm4883: jk-, hmm
[03:16:30] tgm4883: jk-, what ubuntu release are you on?
[03:16:30] kormoc: Google Image search may just not give it justice then
[03:16:30] Beirdo: yeah, if your player don't work, the theming is kinda irrelevant almost
[03:16:35] jk-: tgm4883: i'm using http://ppa.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/repos/ubuntu/
[03:16:37] jk-: tgm4883: lucid
[03:17:03] sphery: kormoc: then again, google image search for mythtv screenies would likely all give Blue and MythCenter :)
[03:17:11] Beirdo: heh, true
[03:17:14] jk-: sphery: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8878
[03:17:26] sphery: which is likely why all the users who say we should replace the terrible mythfrontend with XBMC are saying so
[03:17:38] tgm4883: jk-, and you did the apt-get update first?
[03:17:42] jk-: tgm4883: yep
[03:17:47] wagnerrp: Beirdo: so i guess now when people ask whether an 'ION' system will be decent for a backend, we get to be snarky about it?
[03:17:52] jk-: apt-cache policy states the same version
[03:18:09] ** sphery wonders why trac is displaying the binary .gz attachment **
[03:18:12] tgm4883: jk-, install this package https://edge.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/+archiv . . . 2723_all.deb
[03:18:15] iamlindoro: Anyway, I've been stealing stuff for MythVideo right and left from XBMC, once the backend handles scanning and metadata updates there will be little that they do media organizationwise that we don't also do-- will just be missing some fancy theming/UI polish
[03:18:29] Beirdo: wagnerrp: we always can be snarky :)
[03:18:42] Beirdo: just ask em to define just what the heck they mean by ION :)
[03:18:52] jk-: tgm4883: ok
[03:18:52] Beirdo: then sit back and enjoy the popcorn
[03:19:20] iamlindoro: As of yesterday if one didn't care about copyright you could write a theme that displayed the studio logo for each video item, and you can display the MPAA rating as a logo, etc., and we support all the same imagetypes they do-- we're just missing a layer of polish
[03:19:28] jk-: tgm: looks good, no errors
[03:19:32] sphery: jk-: thanks... for reference, in the future, the lines above the "Thread XX" stuff are important, too--at least the ones that say, "Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault." and after
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[03:19:53] iamlindoro: they do some stuff that chops out the stealy tags from filenames, but we'll never ever do that
[03:20:21] sphery: jk-: actually, do you still have those lines (probably 3 of them or so)?
[03:20:23] iamlindoro: and as I mentioned on the list, I'll take our zero-configuration-anywhere-on-the-network over a series of standalone libraries that I have to set up, plus NFS mounts, on every new system
[03:20:49] sphery: Beirdo: FWIW, it's looking like (though not yet positive), it's a failure in the UPnpMedia::buildFileList()
[03:20:55] jk-: sphery: no, but I can re-segfault it if you need.
[03:21:00] iamlindoro: ie, you add a movie on XBMC system 1, you get to go do it on every other XBMC system, and maintain NFS, etc.
[03:21:14] Beirdo: woohoo
[03:21:16] iamlindoro: versus in a properly configured MythFrontend, scan anywhere, and your whole network is up to date
[03:21:26] iamlindoro: and soon, scan nowhere and your library will be up to date
[03:21:31] Beirdo: can we use that as an excuse to rip that out and put in #8801?
[03:21:45] jk-: sphery: so you *don't* think it's running out of stack?
[03:21:52] wagnerrp: xbmc doesnt have a shared database?
[03:21:55] iamlindoro: wagnerrp, nope
[03:21:57] jk-: we are 24 thousand frames deep :)
[03:22:09] sphery: jk-: yeah, that's why I'm thinking it's there
[03:22:14] wagnerrp: WTF not?
[03:22:31] iamlindoro: wagnerrp, because it's not designed as a client-server-- it's designed to be a series of standalone media players
[03:22:31] sphery: Beirdo: looks like the ? dirname is scanning "." so we end up way too deep in recursion
[03:22:47] Beirdo: hahha
[03:22:52] Beirdo: OMG
[03:22:55] iamlindoro: wagnerrp, So they have a fundamental design flaw/oversight that makes myth-like functionality impossible
[03:23:19] Beirdo: try mv \? "not-?"
[03:23:34] Beirdo: why oh WHY would you want a directory named ? or *
[03:23:52] jk-: Beirdo: it's named 'π'
[03:24:00] iamlindoro: so it's a locale issue
[03:24:03] iamlindoro: locale misconfiguration
[03:24:10] Beirdo: as in a single character ?
[03:24:20] jk-: Beirdo: single character, two bytes
[03:24:20] iamlindoro: Then again, the uPnP scanner may or may not respect backend user locale
[03:24:31] Beirdo: iamlindoro: probably doesn't
[03:24:42] iamlindoro: still worth checking the BE user locale
[03:24:50] iamlindoro: LC_ALL at least
[03:24:50] Beirdo: but I would not be at all surprised if it's due to being a ?
[03:24:58] iamlindoro: well, it's not a ?, it's a pi
[03:25:07] iamlindoro: it's showing up as ? because it's an ascii charset
[03:25:09] sphery: Oh...
[03:25:12] Beirdo: ooooh
[03:25:17] Beirdo: OK that's different
[03:25:17] Beirdo: heh
[03:25:28] sphery: showing up as ? here in IRC because I have an ASCII-only IRC setup :)
[03:25:34] jk-: ah :)
[03:25:35] ** iamlindoro thinks Beirdo's IRC client is ASCII too ;) **
[03:25:36] sphery: so my why isn't right
[03:25:44] Beirdo: it's quite possible that that code needs a lobotomy and doesn't do UTF-8
[03:25:49] Beirdo: IRC is ASCII
[03:25:53] Beirdo: :)
[03:25:55] sphery: when did someone let the rest of the world onto IRC ;)
[03:25:58] ** iamlindoro sees the pi just fine ;) **
[03:26:03] jk-: I have other dirs/metadata with non-ascii data
[03:26:07] sphery: iamlindoro: in your "fancy" font
[03:26:22] sphery: jk-: then, yeah, try iamlindoro's advice
[03:26:24] jk-: but it could be that this is just the first that it's choking on
[03:26:29] Beirdo: heh, fair enough... if it's reading it in ascii rather than UTF-8 or something, I can see why there's an issue
[03:26:32] iamlindoro: I have lots of non-ascii filenames the upnp scanner doesn't choke on
[03:26:39] wagnerrp: when did someone let the rest of the world onto the internet? i dont want to be paying long distance fees here
[03:26:41] sphery: jk-: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/439348#439348
[03:26:46] iamlindoro: but that's not to say that it ends up in the upnp table... but my locale is set right :)
[03:27:00] Beirdo: wagnerrp: IRC predated UTF-8 by quite some time, I think
[03:27:20] sphery: jk-: note that you /must/ use a UTF-8 charset... you can not set MythTV to run with, say, ISO8859–10 or you'll trigger the Qt bug
[03:27:20] jk-: sphery: ok, will run backend with LANG set to a UTF-8 one
[03:27:38] Beirdo: I'd bet you'd find that IRC was defined as 7-bit ASCII even
[03:27:43] sphery: if I weren't so behind on MythTV work, I'd actually try to find that Qt bug
[03:27:50] jk-: (or LC_ALL?)
[03:28:14] iamlindoro: to be safe, all of your locale fields should be a UTF-8 value
[03:28:15] sphery: jk-: in theory, LANG and/or LC_CTYPE should work
[03:28:27] sphery: but, yeah, setting LC_ALL is safest/easiest
[03:28:30] iamlindoro: may need LC_ALL too
[03:29:03] sphery: the problem is you have to know the order of fallback used by Qt (which may be different from other things--they have some weird workarounds for different distros in there, too)
[03:29:09] sphery: so LC_ALL is your best bet
[03:30:17] sphery: good think iamlindoro believes there's something outside the US borders... otherwise, we may have chased this wild IRC goose of "?" for a dir name
[03:30:23] jk-: ok
[03:30:38] ** jk- re-syncs the offending dir over **
[03:30:50] jk-: sphery: :)
[03:30:53] sphery: oh, and thanks for all the testing
[03:31:08] jk-: sphery: no problem, thanks for all the development :D
[03:31:10] sphery: so I take it you have a large dir structure, too?
[03:31:15] Beirdo: hehe
[03:31:19] jk-: sphery: not too big
[03:31:22] sphery: like, do you have 1000's of directories?
[03:31:25] Beirdo: the ticket does say pi
[03:31:43] sphery: heh, I should read the ticket before reading the bt...  :)
[03:31:45] jk-: [jk@backend music]$ find . -type d | wc -l
[03:31:46] jk-: 458
[03:31:58] sphery: yeah, that's reasonable
[03:32:04] Beirdo: that reminds me
[03:32:25] Beirdo: before putting my music into mythtv, I *need* to go to en_US.UTF-8
[03:32:35] Beirdo: I have some Spanish music
[03:33:19] Beirdo: yay
[03:33:27] Beirdo: build complete
[03:34:18] sphery: Beirdo: which machine has the windows build on it?
[03:34:28] sphery: the Pentium 4?
[03:35:38] Beirdo: yup
[03:35:48] sphery: wow, long day of building for that poor system
[03:35:53] Beirdo: yup
[03:35:58] Beirdo: it needed a workout
[03:36:10] iamlindoro: would have been a lot longer if he had tried the script two weeks ago
[03:36:14] sphery: just wondered what kind of processor was behind that kind of time for the build
[03:36:15] iamlindoro: and he'd end up with less hair
[03:36:22] sphery: heh, probably true
[03:36:22] Beirdo: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz
[03:36:34] Beirdo: using 1 "CPU"
[03:36:47] Beirdo: as it's hyperthreaded
[03:36:55] Beirdo: 1G RAM, Vista Ultimate
[03:37:13] Beirdo: and now I have telnetd installed
[03:37:26] jk-: ticket updated
[03:37:31] Beirdo: so I don't NEED to RDP in
[03:37:45] ** iamlindoro wins the diagnosis game! **
[03:37:52] jk-: iamlindoro: hooray!
[03:37:57] Beirdo: iamlindoro: you rule
[03:38:21] sphery: Intel is so not Microsoft. MS chooses the generic terms for things and makes it their product name (i.e. "Windows" or "Office"). Intel creates a branded, trademarked, made-up name for some industry standard tech (HT vs SMT).
[03:39:09] Beirdo: heh, yah
[03:43:13] Beirdo: would be cool to get ccache on windows
[03:45:10] sphery: So, anyone mind if I close that ticket with a comment that the code requires a properly-configured environment that allows Qt to set the character encoding properly or it gives us garbage for some characters?
[03:45:29] Beirdo: sounds perfect to me
[03:45:40] jk-: sphery: hm, it's generally run as a system daemon though
[03:45:45] ** iamlindoro would rather we didn't segfault when the locale is set wrong, but... **
[03:45:50] jk-: so typically won't have a locale
[03:46:09] iamlindoro: jk-, mythbackend has a number of other things that require the BE be run with a proper locale
[03:46:09] sphery: I do agree not segfaulting is good
[03:46:12] Beirdo: iamlindoro: true
[03:46:34] iamlindoro: Now obviously a segfault is a segfault, but the locale is sem-non-negotiable (if you want it to work right)
[03:46:35] Beirdo: I don't like "bad" data being able to crash the code
[03:46:37] sphery: I don't know how we can prevent garbage-in/garbage-out if there's no locale information, though
[03:46:53] jk-: signal(SIGSEGV, setup_locale);  :D
[03:46:57] iamlindoro: we could just skip any item that contains a ?
[03:47:07] sphery: yeah, sounds like a good plan
[03:47:14] Beirdo: can we force a default of en_US.UTF8?
[03:47:17] iamlindoro: then you might get incomplete upnp results, but avoid the crash
[03:47:35] Beirdo: or at least UTF8 of some sorts?
[03:47:46] jk-: is there a UTF-8 equivalent of LANG=C ?
[03:48:11] sphery: jk-: the Qt libs go through the same fallbacks that you're thinking of\
[03:48:15] Beirdo: even for us non-accented areas... UTF-8 should work, I'd have thought
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[03:48:50] iamlindoro: I think requiring a UTF-8 locale would be nice, gigantic flip-outs when people update and aren't configured properly aside
[03:49:13] Beirdo: heheeh
[03:49:21] Beirdo: yeah, there is that
[03:49:24] Beirdo: crap
[03:49:24] iamlindoro: I can think of at least one former-core-dev who would update trunk, have it not work, and complain loudly
[03:49:27] sphery: jk-: i.e. the Qt libs are attempting to divine the appropriate character encoding from the system using the long-agreed upon rules for fallback, but twisted to work around distro idiosyncracies.
[03:49:40] iamlindoro: even though it's the user's misconfiguration
[03:49:54] iamlindoro: I was saying to sphery in PM, it would be the timezone settings all over again
[03:50:03] Beirdo: ick
[03:50:52] wagnerrp: what do you mean im in the wrong locale? i live in ancient rome!
[03:51:32] Beirdo: as long as that's ancient Rome in UTF8, more power to ya
[03:51:34] iamlindoro: Anyway, realistically I think that there is no way for us to do what we aim without running the BE in a UTF-8 locale
[03:51:56] Beirdo: I agree
[03:52:11] Beirdo: UTF-16 locales may work too :)
[03:52:16] iamlindoro: Even if that means ignoring system locale and just setting it in mythcontext
[03:53:05] ** jk- enjoys the no-longer-segfaulting backend **
[03:53:07] Beirdo: it will cause a lot of mega-whining, I'm sure
[03:54:31] sphery: tgm4883: How hard would it be to get the Mythbuntu start "script" (I know nothing of upstart) to set the locale info to include a UTF-8 charset before starting mythbackend? Basically, Qt needs the UTF-8 replacing any other character encoding info for one or more of LANG, LC_CTYPE, and/or LC_ALL. ( http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/439348#439348 )
[03:54:45] iamlindoro: well, if we were setting it in mythcontext, there would be no reason most (any?) users would even know
[03:55:06] wagnerrp: would that carry over to all external grabbers as well?
[03:55:12] jk-: i just added 'env LC_ALL=en_AU.UTF-8' to /etc/init/mythtv-backend.conf
[03:55:21] iamlindoro: don't know-- possibly/probably when using QPRocess
[03:55:23] [R]: isn't a program override the system locale inside of itself... considered pure evil?
[03:55:31] Beirdo: I shall be adding to my custom startup scripts... right now
[03:55:59] Beirdo: [R]: probably, but overriding when NOT UTF8 to UTF8... might work
[03:56:00] iamlindoro: [R], No reason it should be, since the user could feed it a broken configuration and there's no real obvious reason to let them do so
[03:56:09] iamlindoro: witness above :)
[03:56:11] Beirdo: if it's already UTF-8, no need to mess with it
[03:56:19] jk-: not sure how else you'd do it
[03:56:44] jk-: iamlindoro: how was i giving it an incorrect locale?
[03:57:24] iamlindoro: jk-, You had a locale set previously that had to convert UTF-8 data to ASCII, resulting in UTF-8 characters being converted to ?, which is also a wildcard
[03:57:51] jk-: iamlindoro: the backend was running with no LANG/LC_* env vars
[03:58:03] iamlindoro: jk-, Which will default to ASCII
[03:58:16] sphery: [R]: fix the bug in Qt and it won't be a problem for us anymore :)
[03:58:20] jk-: yeah, so it's probably more a default than an edge case though
[03:58:26] [R]: sphery: oh... sure, no problem
[03:58:28] Beirdo: ooh, look, my LANG=en_US.UTF-8 already. nice
[03:58:48] sphery: Beirdo: even in the environment that starts mythbackend (i.e. not usually set in init scripts)
[03:58:53] [R]: jk-: most sane things should be setting it properly...
[03:58:58] iamlindoro: jk-, It's not an edge case, really, though-- the BE should be running as a user with a properly configured locale-- we obviously don't see this much, and we have tens of thousands of users
[03:59:10] iamlindoro: er rather, it is an edge case
[03:59:16] Beirdo: sphery: I hard-coded LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 in my startup scripts
[03:59:20] sphery: cool
[03:59:25] Beirdo: so it should be good
[03:59:43] Beirdo: and I don't run myth from init scripts
[03:59:49] jk-: iamlindoro: isn't the backend usually running from init?
[03:59:50] jk-: ah
[04:00:04] Beirdo: remember? I'm running trunk, and keep restarting it all the time :)
[04:00:08] sphery: anyway, to just override the Qt decisions, we would just set QTextCodec::setCodecForLocale(QTextCodec::codecForName("UTF-8")); anywhere in the app (even first line in mythbackend's main()).
[04:00:22] Beirdo: most people use init scripts
[04:00:24] iamlindoro: jk-, you can run the BE from init, most people's init scripts (and most of those provided in packages, or even all of them) run them as a real user
[04:00:40] jk-: iamlindoro: this is default ubuntu lucid
[04:00:40] iamlindoro: eg, the mythbuntu init script switches everything to the mythtv user
[04:00:44] sphery: but it would mean that we could have the opposite problem, then, later
[04:00:48] Beirdo: I'm smellling beef stew
[04:00:51] Beirdo: this is evil!
[04:01:08] sphery: i.e. the system is using a different charset, and we attempt to write a filename with utf-8 chars, and it gets a different name on the file system
[04:01:12] iamlindoro: jk-, they have had some issues moving to upstart-- so if you're on lucid, you're using that, not init
[04:01:19] jk-: err, lucid with the autobuild packages
[04:01:40] jk-: yep, using upstart
[04:01:46] Beirdo: shudder
[04:01:56] iamlindoro: and they actually submitted a patch to allow the BE to take a user argument, which they use, since upstart doesn't support switching users
[04:02:13] sphery: but that doesn't set the environment at all
[04:02:14] jk-: however, was getting the same with stock lucid packages
[04:02:14] iamlindoro: so, TTBOMK, they still run the BE as the mythtv user
[04:02:16] sphery: it's not a login
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[04:02:28] iamlindoro: anyway, package management issue/configuration issue
[04:02:45] sphery: so they run as mythtv user in a "sterile" environment (without proper configuration)
[04:02:50] sphery: but, yeah, they need to fix it
[04:02:52] jk-: iamlindoro: it's running as a myth user
[04:02:52] iamlindoro: I agree we shouldn't segfault, but a properly configured BE *does* have a locakle, and a UTf-8 one at that
[04:03:00] jk-: but yes, not a login shell
[04:03:13] iamlindoro: jk-, You shoudl speak to your packager and ask them to fix it
[04:03:33] ** jk- files a lp bug **
[04:03:36] sphery: fwiw, I did mention it to tgm, above
[04:03:51] sphery: but, yeah, an official bug report in lp is the best approach
[04:07:46] jk-: done
[04:07:49] sphery: thx
[04:08:23] ** jk- goes back to actual work **
[04:08:31] jk-: thanks for the help, everyone
[04:08:38] Beirdo: work?!
[04:08:40] Beirdo: hehe
[04:08:42] jk-: WORK!
[04:09:11] jk-: gotta add to the 'buy a new frontend' fund somehow...
[04:09:29] Beirdo: work... the thing that keeps getting in the way of fun
[04:09:44] jk-: work is fun
[04:10:34] Beirdo: getting paid is :)
[04:10:56] Beirdo: work can be
[04:11:13] kormoc: mmm Krab....
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[04:11:38] sphery: Beirdo: wonder if we just need to add "|| fname.contains('?')" to programs/mythbackend/upnpmedia.cpp +144
[04:12:00] Beirdo: well, having it in the filename might be valid
[04:12:07] jk-: sphery: or fname.startswith() ?
[04:12:19] jk-: or tell it not to glob?
[04:12:32] Beirdo: or look for non-visible chars?
[04:13:08] Beirdo: I dunno. I'm sure there's a good way
[04:13:24] kormoc: Sucks to be this movie then, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0830860/
[04:13:38] Beirdo: heheh
[04:13:56] jk-: heh
[04:14:14] jk-: it's only 5.3 stars, you probably didn't want to watch it anyway
[04:14:14] kormoc: there's actually a fair number of movies that start with ?
[04:14:41] Beirdo: If we keep around the upnpscanner, we'll definitely need to look at making it smarter
[04:14:41] kormoc: at least 8
[04:14:53] Beirdo: but it might be disappearing soon enough...
[04:15:31] Beirdo: so I'm not sure what priority to give to it at the exact second
[04:16:20] kormoc: I say renice is to +8
[04:16:39] sphery: yeah, it should disappear soon after 0.24
[04:17:04] sphery: that's why I'm recommending a hack workaround instead of a proper fix
[04:17:11] sphery: basically prevent the segfault
[04:17:19] sphery: and let the users configure their systems properly :)
[04:17:50] jk-: could you add a warning? I had no idea that the backend needs a proper locale
[04:18:00] sphery: though it does seem that it's higher up that's the problem
[04:18:48] sphery: maybe not... that might work
[04:19:05] sphery: just ignore that--maybe with an else if and log a message
[04:19:39] jk-: if other stuff is going to break because of a missing locale, I'd rather have it set up properly
[04:20:26] jk-: or abort(), and it'll get fixed in every distro next release :D
[04:20:57] kormoc: you'd be surprised
[04:21:03] Beirdo: sphery: I can't find what you are looking at
[04:21:05] Beirdo: what file?
[04:21:06] sphery: then people just yell at us
[04:21:37] sphery: Beirdo: programs/mythbackend/upnpmedia.cpp at about line 143
[04:21:50] Beirdo: you looking at trunk?
[04:22:04] sphery: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . dia.cpp#L143
[04:22:23] Beirdo: I'm having issues. one sec
[04:22:57] Beirdo: ooooh
[04:22:59] Beirdo: I suck
[04:23:11] Beirdo: I was looking on my branch with that ripped out already
[04:23:13] Beirdo: heheh
[04:23:15] Beirdo: one sec
[04:24:01] sphery: heh
[04:24:07] sphery: I wasn't looking at that branch :)
[04:24:33] sphery: Beirdo is looking at release-0-25-fixes
[04:24:34] Beirdo: I coulda sworn I was looking at trunk
[04:24:47] Beirdo: but no, it was upnp-8801
[04:24:48] Beirdo: bebe
[04:24:51] Beirdo: hehe even
[04:25:04] sphery: Beirdo: if you could get us a snapshot of release-0-25-fixes, it would save us a lot of work next dev cycle
[04:25:15] Beirdo: heh
[04:25:41] Beirdo: ask markk. I'm sure he'd have a much more interesting set of code to work with :)
[04:25:48] sphery: heh
[04:26:08] Beirdo: ummm, oh rihgt
[04:26:10] sphery: I'd just be interested to know if I finished any of the things on my todo list
[04:26:16] Beirdo: gonna look at QDir docs
[04:27:02] sphery: I don't think we can disable the wildcards in QDir::entryInfoList()... we could switch them to QRegExp-based (which would be worse on performance and likely have its own issues with garbage in).
[04:27:20] Beirdo: that's what I'm looking at
[04:27:22] Beirdo: one sec
[04:28:37] Beirdo: we can set filters
[04:28:38] kormoc: welp, we better hurry on a 0.25 release, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/mid . . . atchdog.html
[04:29:03] sphery: And I ran. I ran so far away.
[04:29:13] Beirdo: couldn't get away...
[04:29:20] kormoc: from their ICBMs...
[04:29:26] ** sphery goes to style his hair **
[04:29:34] sphery: oh, wait, none left
[04:29:44] kormoc: just face the first blast, it'll style it for ya
[04:29:52] sphery: heh
[04:29:54] Beirdo: hehe
[04:30:02] Beirdo: I need to buzz mine again
[04:30:06] Beirdo: gettin shaggy
[04:30:14] sphery: Beirdo: http://www.headblade.com/
[04:30:33] iamlindoro: The 19th century french had a headblade too
[04:30:45] kormoc: I bet theirs was much faster
[04:30:52] iamlindoro: much more comprehensive
[04:30:59] sphery: and didn't need daily reuse
[04:31:34] kormoc: Time for lazar hair removal!
[04:32:00] sphery: heh... I know some guys who use Nair and its ilk on their heads
[04:32:11] sphery: I just can't imagine putting those chemicals that close to my brain
[04:32:29] kormoc: you'll only worry bout that the first time
[04:32:59] sphery: yeah, that would explain a lot
[04:34:04] wagnerrp: wait wait...
[04:34:13] wagnerrp: they need 20kg at 90% or better
[04:34:23] wagnerrp: meaning they need 18kg of U235
[04:34:40] wagnerrp: they currently have 4kg
[04:35:08] Beirdo: sphery: I think we can maybe filter out the ., .., ?, ??
[04:35:08] kormoc: Evidently it was a 'technical' hurdle that means they can refine it faster/better/stronger
[04:35:14] wagnerrp: the first 4kg is the hard part, the last 14 is easy?
[04:35:36] kormoc: wagnerrp, when you're figuring out how to do it, the first bit is always the hardest
[04:35:43] sphery: Beirdo: that might solve the problem and allow ones with ? to work
[04:35:54] wagnerrp: we already know how to do it
[04:36:00] wagnerrp: weve been doing it for 70 years
[04:36:04] sphery: wagnerrp: the first 20% is the hard part, then it's just "repeat and rinse"
[04:36:07] wagnerrp: and its not even a very difficult process
[04:36:10] Beirdo: as long as it ain't ? or ??, I don't care :)
[04:36:12] wagnerrp: its just VERY time intensive
[04:36:16] ** kormoc shrugs **
[04:36:22] wagnerrp: and requires some rather large equipment
[04:36:36] kormoc: given they went from 5% to 20% in a few months, I'd say they got it down now
[04:37:04] kormoc: but it doesn't matter, they'll be nuking their neighbors soon enough
[04:37:12] wagnerrp: was that 22kg at 5%? or 80kg at 5%?
[04:37:43] sphery: maybe I should re-watch Jericho to pick up some post-apocalypse survival tips
[04:37:50] sphery: nah, I think I'll just play some more Fallout 3
[04:37:59] kormoc: wagnerrp, they had a max refinement rate of 5% in Feb, now it's 20%
[04:38:01] ** kormoc shrugs **
[04:38:03] Beirdo: sphery: I think, try adding || fName == "?" || fName == "??"
[04:38:10] kormoc: sphery, Jericho had promise!
[04:38:27] sphery: kormoc: yeah... it was a bit preachy at times, but it was a solid foundation
[04:38:43] Beirdo: just skip em.. I guess we could skip ".?" and "?." too just to be anal
[04:38:44] kormoc: Beirdo, poor http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0775413/
[04:38:48] sphery: when it was killed the first time, though, it didn't have a chance... what they brought back wasn't Jericho
[04:38:56] sphery: something else came back... something, eviler
[04:39:08] Beirdo: kormoc: ah well :)
[04:39:08] kormoc: yeah
[04:39:15] Beirdo: the file can be ?.mpg
[04:39:21] Beirdo: just don't make a dir ?
[04:39:41] kormoc: Beirdo, /mnt/movies/?/dvd.iso !
[04:39:47] ** kormoc shifty eyes **
[04:39:49] Beirdo: heh
[04:39:58] Beirdo: well, sorry, taht one won't work
[04:40:24] Beirdo: heh, this IS a short term hack
[04:40:29] sphery: MythTV 0.25. Release Notes. * Support directories named ? and ??
[04:40:35] Beirdo: haha
[04:40:50] wagnerrp: i dont understand why theyre even going after U235
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[04:41:00] wagnerrp: its been abandoned by the rest of the nuclear powers
[04:41:04] sphery: user response to the ticket, "Finally. This was the last blocker for me. Thanks for finally fixing it."
[04:41:17] kormoc: wagnerrp, but still the easiest to get to bomb level
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[04:41:45] wagnerrp: kormoc: but its so hard to get the required material
[04:41:50] sphery: follow up, "You seem to only support one directory called ? per parent directory. Can we add support for multiple identically-named directories called ? in each parent directory?"
[04:41:56] Beirdo: not if the other countries are abandoning it
[04:42:16] wagnerrp: Beirdo: abandoned, 50 years ago
[04:42:20] wagnerrp: past tense
[04:42:29] Beirdo: yeah, and dismantling?
[04:42:50] sphery: but naturaly 0.7%-enriched Uranium is still easy to get
[04:42:58] sphery: it grows under mountains
[04:43:00] Beirdo: yup
[04:43:10] kormoc: buy it from united nuclear!
[04:43:12] Beirdo: and especially in northern Canada
[04:43:16] wagnerrp: but its really hard to purify
[04:43:24] sphery: yeah, takes time and material
[04:43:40] sphery: but getting plutonium right is more challenging
[04:43:55] sphery: especially when people are monitoring your reactors
[04:44:51] clever: i came across a .txt file explaining how to purify U235 in your kitchen, by melting it in a bucket of acid and spinning it overhead on a roap......
[04:45:19] sphery: wow
[04:45:44] clever: the heavier U235 (or is it lighter) will seperate from the other junk when you spin it
[04:45:48] wagnerrp: clever: yes, the denser u238 condenses at the bottom, and can be drained out
[04:45:51] clever: assuming its been liquified by the acid
[04:45:52] Beirdo: I'm sure the FBI likes having that on record
[04:46:04] Beirdo: !trout clever
[04:46:04] ** MythLogBot slaps clever with a trout on behalf of Beirdo... **
[04:46:18] clever: wagnerrp: yeah, it sounds scarry easy if you can get the raw mats
[04:46:19] wagnerrp: its a lot easier to do as a gas than a liquid
[04:46:19] kormoc: oh lord, what gems of wisdom am I missing now
[04:46:46] wagnerrp: but it still requires a MASSIVE complex to do in any significant volume
[04:46:55] clever: yeah
[04:47:20] wagnerrp: its all a function of scale
[04:47:21] Beirdo: clever: welcome to the no-fly list
[04:47:24] kormoc: clever, http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_4 and try it out now. We'll wait
[04:47:38] wagnerrp: the methods are not that difficult, they math is not all that complex
[04:47:40] clever: kormoc: firefox still isnt working right now, libpng errors
[04:47:52] wagnerrp: you need high precision machine tools, but thats not hard to come by these days
[04:48:08] wagnerrp: its all the sheer scale of the facilities needed to refine the materials
[04:48:11] clever: wagnerrp: the txt file explained how to form the 2 half-spheres in a wok i beleive
[04:48:24] Beirdo: OMG
[04:48:53] wagnerrp: you go do that... im going to be sitting over here with my still-functioning gonads
[04:49:12] iamlindoro: It's probably best that his gonads not function anyway
[04:49:17] clever: wagnerrp: id never do it, and i dont see how you would even live after spinning a bucket of U235 over-head
[04:49:20] Beirdo: get your friends Osama and Mohammad to come over and help
[04:49:22] iamlindoro: Not that there's much to worry about breedingwise, but it pays to be safe
[04:49:41] clever: Beirdo: exactly, the plans are better used for suicide bombers, who arent going to live much longer anyways
[04:49:46] kormoc: Indeed
[04:50:05] kormoc: I bet we could raise plenty of money to get certain folks the ol' snippity snip snip
[04:50:08] clever: its just scarry that i came across that kind of info without even trying
[04:50:22] clever: dont even remember where i found it
[04:50:46] Beirdo: yeah, you tell that to the feds when they track you down
[04:50:55] clever: if osama had the internet in his cave, we would be so screwed :P
[04:51:00] Beirdo: you do know google indexes the logs, right?
[04:51:08] clever: yeah
[04:51:38] sphery: clever: was it http://www.fbi.gov/watchlist/honeypot/enrich_ . . . _kitchen.txt ?
[04:51:45] Beirdo: hahahah
[04:51:49] clever: lol
[04:51:54] iamlindoro: .php?format=txt
[04:52:31] clever: id mention what it was, but talking of that stuff is against the rules in this channel:P
[04:52:36] kormoc: You mean google is going to index that Michael Bishop, AKA clever, has access to top secret uranium enrichment instructions and is transmitting those instructions across international borders?
[04:52:52] Beirdo: couldn't be
[04:52:57] clever: thanks for putting it all on one line for them:P
[04:53:31] sphery: lol
[04:53:42] iamlindoro: It's not like he fits any sort of profile-- social outcast, lives alone in a house full of equipment, poor social skills.... uh oh...
[04:54:03] sphery: He was so quiet. Kept to himself mostly.
[04:54:10] sphery: (says the neighbor)
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[04:55:26] wagnerrp: i thought it was the boyscouts who were prepared... to make backyard reactors
[04:55:37] kormoc: Just one
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[04:57:38] clever: the txt file then went on to explain how to make a fusion bomb, by making 4 fision bombs and duct-taping them to a car of something....
[04:57:39] kormoc: This Friday! New Resident Evil movie!
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[05:00:25] sphery: what's with the animated ones? are they worth watching?
[05:01:14] clever: s/car/jar/
[05:02:20] sphery: such as http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1174954/
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[05:03:59] Loshki: I have a serial line IR blaster that I can't get working. Anyone with ubuntu/lirc/comcast/dta100/mythtv experience? That's everyone, right?
[05:04:36] kormoc: sphery, haven't seem them yet
[05:04:38] wagnerrp: everyone uses comcast DTAs on ubuntu?
[05:04:47] kormoc: they didn't play at any theaters locally
[05:04:51] ** wagnerrp supposed he doesnt count **
[05:05:26] sphery: kormoc: there are atually 5 others, too (RE2 – 5 and RE0 ... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0161941/ through http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0232531/ )
[05:05:41] clever: Loshki: is it giving an error or just not working?
[05:06:02] kormoc: sphery, I might have to purchase
[05:06:20] wagnerrp: animated resident evil?
[05:06:26] sphery: Yeah, I can't decide if it's worth it... I've seen all the "real" movies, but don't know about them
[05:06:30] sphery: wagnerrp: yeah... seen any?
[05:06:59] wagnerrp: looks like its based off the game, rather than the movie series
[05:07:48] Loshki: clever: Well, I would have called this an error: lircd: WARNING: Failed to initialize hardware, but the developer clearly thought it was (just) a warning. Is it fatal?
[05:08:03] clever: Loshki: sounds fatal
[05:09:26] wagnerrp: im disappointed there has been no further commentary from chris adams
[05:10:33] Loshki: clever: I agree. So either the serial port is trashed, or the transceiver is trashed, or the config is wrong. Are there any quick and easy ways to tell?
[05:11:03] clever: Loshki: did you check dmesg?
[05:11:41] kormoc: ooh?
[05:13:38] Loshki: clever: dmesg says "lirc_serial: auto-detected active high receiver", but irw gives no output when I fire the (known working) remote at it. No mention at all of a transmitter. Also, this: lirc_dev: lirc_register_plugin: sample_rate: 0. Do you know if any of it is significant?
[05:14:14] clever: Loshki: looks normal to me
[05:17:33] Loshki: clever: am I right in thinking that irw doesn't rely on configs and just reports raw data? If so, the fact that it doesn't show anything means I have a low-level (hardware?) issue?
[05:18:04] clever: irw just connects to lircd and displays the raw messages from lircd
[05:18:13] clever: lircd reads the config
[05:18:39] iamlindoro: Loshki, irw *does* rely on a properly configured lircd and lircd.conf
[05:18:53] iamlindoro: Loshki, if you want raw input, you want mode2
[05:20:26] Loshki: iamlindoro: so mode2 will give me a basic sanity check on the hardware?
[05:20:54] iamlindoro: Loshki, Still requires that lirc be running properly and configured, but at least doesn't require a properly configured lircd.conf for your remote
[05:21:32] iamlindoro: in short, if mode2 works, then lirc is working. If irw works, then lirc is working and your lircd.conf is correct.
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[05:24:10] Beirdo: ahhh, now to use that devel box for something a bit faster.
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[05:25:25] Loshki: iamlindoro: and so far, none of them work, including mode2. lircd says: "WARNING: Failed to initialize hardware". That seems important :-)
[05:25:40] Beirdo: wow, uname -r gives a long string on FreeBSD
[05:26:00] Beirdo: err
[05:26:01] wagnerrp: '8.0-RELEASE'?
[05:26:02] Beirdo: uname -a
[05:26:26] ** Beirdo is wondering what's with his brain today **
[05:26:40] Loshki: iamlindoro: clever: Erm, how does lircd know if the hardware initialized or not?
[05:29:48] Beirdo: I'm getting Family Guy-ed out of my mind
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[05:32:26] tank-man: Loshki, did you load a kernel module before running 'mode2'?
[05:33:11] Loshki: tank-man: yes, lirc_serial loads without errors.
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[05:34:41] tank-man: im not sure but did you create the devices with mknod?
[05:38:23] Loshki: tank-man: Ubuntu is pretty good about devices, it's all done with udev. I see normal looking /dev/ttyS0 and /dev/lirc0. Should there be a /dev/lirc1 also? I have /dev/lircd and /dev/lircd1...
[05:40:00] tank-man: and after you loaded the kernel module, you started the lirc deamon?
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[05:46:23] Loshki: tank-man: that's right. Actually, I start 2 daemons, one for read and one for write...
[05:50:35] tank-man: and the daemons load ok?
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[06:50:38] Beirdo: OMG
[06:51:05] Beirdo: sphery: live one on the -users mailing list... complaining about CPU usage on Atom with framegrabber
[06:51:18] sphery: heh, wow, tall order for atom
[06:51:27] sphery: Beirdo: did you see CM's reply in #mythtv?
[06:51:51] sphery: seems your plan is a go--event for LIRC/JS disablign
[06:52:09] sphery: probably just one, though, as it seems there'd be no reason to ever disable one and not the other
[06:53:41] Beirdo: yeah, I concur
[06:54:10] Beirdo: I'll take a look at it tomorrow, it's getting too late to start that now :)
[06:54:29] sphery: cool
[06:54:30] sphery: thanks
[06:55:02] Beirdo: that will get that mess cleaned up nicely
[06:55:12] sphery: yeah
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[06:55:32] sphery: yeah, and is a fix so...
[06:55:42] Beirdo: yup
[06:55:59] Beirdo: you wanna reopen the bug? :)
[06:56:14] sphery: we could?
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[06:56:22] sphery: want me to
[06:56:38] Beirdo: go for it, mentioning the symbols/circular deps.
[06:56:49] sphery: will do
[06:57:19] Beirdo: that way if others who didn't go onto IRC will see why we are fixing something :)
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[07:02:30] Beirdo: this will let us clean up the flags a bit too
[07:02:41] Beirdo: collapse 2 into 1
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[07:07:49] Beirdo: sphery: it's #8863, I believe, BTW
[07:08:20] sphery: Beirdo: the bad thing is that I (re-)opened a ticket today, but didn't close any today
[07:08:25] sphery: so I'm at a net loss for the day
[07:08:35] Beirdo: hehe
[07:08:36] sphery: I guess, technically, since it's 3:08am, I still have time
[07:08:47] Beirdo: well, this ticket will go back on my queue
[07:08:47] sphery: though sleep must come first
[07:08:56] Beirdo: so you're just makin me work, not yourself
[07:09:00] sphery: heh, true
[07:09:31] sphery: though my plan--if not to leave the world a better place--is to at least not leave the world a worse place
[07:10:37] Beirdo: this will make the world a better place :)
[07:10:53] sphery: yeah, but that's you making it better
[07:10:59] sphery: I just made it worse for you
[07:11:13] Beirdo: heh, not to worry
[07:12:18] Beirdo: fun times
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[07:47:29] wagnerrp: sphery: me too... but at least i provided a patch
[07:47:30] wagnerrp: :P
[07:48:27] wagnerrp: hehe
[07:49:39] wagnerrp: 'i bought a bunch of old wing commander games that no longer run now that directdraw has been depreciated. i reimplemented it using a translation layer to opengl and posted the source online. the server was promptly slashdotted and the source lost to the world forever.'
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[07:55:05] Beirdo: OK
[07:55:12] Beirdo: sphery: you still awake?
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[08:01:58] Beirdo: I'll take it as a no
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[08:05:33] sphery: Beirdo: yeah, I'm here
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[08:07:04] Beirdo: heh
[08:07:09] Beirdo: you're as bad as me
[08:07:18] Beirdo: #8878
[08:07:40] Beirdo: I added a patch that I think should keep it from going crazy
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[08:08:02] sphery: Beirdo: cool... looks good
[08:09:10] Beirdo: if the guy is back tomorrow, maybe he can test it :)
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[08:09:31] sphery: yeah
[08:09:37] sphery: if I see him, I'll ask
[08:09:56] Beirdo: cool :)
[08:10:32] sphery: he's still in channel, but likely gone
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[08:10:53] sphery: since he's using packages, though, it may be hard for him to test
[08:11:05] Beirdo: oh
[08:11:08] Beirdo: heh, right
[08:11:39] Beirdo: well, I'll test run it tomorrow to make sure that it doesn't go inexplicably nuts
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[08:12:02] Beirdo: and if there's no easy way to test...
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[08:12:25] Beirdo: well, I guess, I could turf some Spanish music in there and break my locale :)
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[08:13:07] sphery: got any music called pi?
[08:13:15] Beirdo: nope
[08:13:19] sphery: :)
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[08:18:17] justinh: mmmmm pi
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[08:28:28] justinh: so, whose leg do I have to hump to have pulseaudio put down? ;-)
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[08:33:47] toeb: Canonical LTD i think...
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[08:44:49] justinh: toeb: heheh
[08:46:41] justinh: well, another HDMI connector replaced on a PCB. Love soldering 0.5 millimetre pitch connectors, me
[08:46:43] Beirdo: OMG, I see a lot of repeated code here to launch browser...
[08:47:27] Beirdo: but... out of scope to even consider
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[08:48:40] justinh: time to do some surgery on a short HDMI cable to make it er.. more flexible
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[09:41:14] Beirdo: stupid insomnia
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[09:50:20] justinh: ooo, HTML5 suckage on google's homepage today
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[09:53:13] Beirdo: heh
[09:53:31] Beirdo: I'm giving this insomnia max another 30min
[09:53:58] Beirdo: then I'm gonna go to bed regardless
[09:54:57] Beirdo: here's hoping this compile finishes shortly :)
[09:55:33] justinh: theming used to get me through my insomnia bouts
[09:55:54] justinh: still sucks though
[09:56:20] Beirdo: #8863 is doing it for me right now
[09:56:25] justinh: wuhahahaha.. somebody using a framegrabber on an atom system & wondering why it sucks?
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[09:56:42] Beirdo: yeah, that was priceless
[09:56:54] Beirdo: it seems to be doing OK thought
[09:56:56] Beirdo: though.
[09:57:05] Beirdo: he just needs to tweak the crap out of it
[09:57:35] Beirdo: I mean, come on... a coworker used to do framegrabber on a combo be/fe that was a Celeron
[09:57:44] Beirdo: Celeron 433 I think it was
[09:57:50] justinh: yeah I've done framegrabbing for a laugh on an athlon 800
[09:57:54] Beirdo: no way an Atom can't do it
[09:58:02] Beirdo: just maybe not with default settings
[09:58:19] justinh: wasn't a very fun laugh though.. I was mortified at the picture Q
[09:58:42] Beirdo: granted... it wasn't HD either
[09:58:44] Beirdo: heh
[09:58:49] Beirdo: but still.
[09:58:54] Beirdo: with tweaking...
[09:59:19] justinh: think he could do with understanding *en* coding vs *de* coding first ;)
[09:59:24] Beirdo: he should be able to get it usable... at the cost of picture quality of course
[09:59:27] Beirdo: yeah
[09:59:31] Beirdo: and the de...
[09:59:39] Beirdo: he has no hardware accel
[10:00:02] justinh: that'll be why viddypow is sucking up so many cycles ;)
[10:00:27] Beirdo: probably no more than without it
[10:00:36] Beirdo: or not much more :)
[10:00:48] justinh: no no, he selected the VDPAU profile so it must be using it! ;-)
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[10:01:35] Beirdo: it's trying and getting rejected :)
[10:01:48] Beirdo: kinda like a geek at high school
[10:02:00] justinh: meh
[10:02:02] justinh: I never tried
[10:02:07] justinh: :D
[10:02:08] Beirdo: heh
[10:02:21] Beirdo: yah, me neither, not much
[10:02:47] justinh: I was kinda cool in some ways though.. I put my geekery to entertaining use
[10:02:49] Beirdo: OK, there's the core compiled... onto the plugins.
[10:03:06] justinh: not many kids could say they had their own radio station
[10:03:16] Beirdo: this changeset really hit a lot of places
[10:03:49] Beirdo: yeah, that's cool
[10:04:48] Beirdo: hehe
[10:05:06] Beirdo: omg. I just remembered the other crazy username from work
[10:05:40] Beirdo: twatkins
[10:05:41] Beirdo: heh
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[10:08:07] jk-: Beirdo: patch looks good (not that I've tried it)
[10:08:18] Beirdo: heh
[10:08:47] jk-: Beirdo: IANAMythTVHacker, but might be good to comment why you're not testing against "." instead
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[10:09:03] Beirdo: It is in there
[10:10:01] jk-: ah, yes
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[10:10:08] Beirdo: very first term :)
[10:10:09] ** jk- missed the syntax of the previous chunk **
[10:10:12] jk-: yeah
[10:10:15] jk-: *facepalm*
[10:10:23] Beirdo: heh
[10:10:27] Beirdo: no biggie
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[10:12:33] jk-: is it possible to disable globbing for .entryInfoList() ?
[10:12:48] Beirdo: not simply
[10:12:51] jk-: ok
[10:13:20] Beirdo: but it doesn't matter as the general plan is to nuke that whole chunk of code anyways
[10:13:34] Beirdo: just not happening for 0.24
[10:13:58] Beirdo: we may need to put similar code into other places after though
[10:14:32] Beirdo: doesn't matter, this should keep it from recursing to itself
[10:14:37] Beirdo: doubly
[10:15:23] jk-: fair enough
[10:16:30] justinh: hmm. seems blue-abstract-wide is using copyrighted artwork
[10:16:54] justinh: naughty. mr & mrs Dolby won't be happy
[10:16:55] Beirdo: well, copyrighted is OK if the license is OK, no?
[10:17:07] Beirdo: oh.. well THAT license isn't
[10:17:08] justinh: copyrighted as in trademarks
[10:17:38] Beirdo: apples as in oranges
[10:18:41] Beirdo: but either way... I don't think we have rights to that logo
[10:18:47] justinh: pity the don't really allow the use of such things for 'personal' use
[10:21:41] Beirdo: this compiles and runs...
[10:21:50] Beirdo: and screw this... bed must happen
[10:22:24] Beirdo: 708 line patch. ugh
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[10:25:31] Beirdo: 26 files changed, 87 insertions(+), 220 deletions(-)
[10:25:43] Beirdo: yay
[10:26:40] justinh: is that just to get stuff to compile?
[10:26:47] justinh: oh wait is this the bsd stuff?
[10:27:04] Beirdo: nah, this is fixing myth_system yet again
[10:27:32] Beirdo: moving the lirc and joystick menu locking to an event directly from myth_system to the main window
[10:27:43] Beirdo: to get rid of a circular dependency
[10:27:47] Beirdo: fun times
[10:28:04] Beirdo: put it gets rid of a bit of glue code in the process
[10:28:54] Beirdo: and collapses two flags into one
[10:29:15] Beirdo: and while there, I renamed another flag to represent what it truly does
[10:29:22] jk-: ooh, now the frontend is segfaulting..
[10:29:49] Beirdo: heh, wonderful
[10:29:50] jk-: i seem to be the SIGSEGV magnet today
[10:29:54] Beirdo: seems so
[10:30:02] Beirdo: well, I gotta hit the sack.
[10:30:04] Beirdo: 3:30am
[10:30:10] Beirdo: and I got work tomorrow
[10:31:44] justinh: oof
[10:31:58] justinh: man, who chose the mythtvtalk.com forum theme? it sucks
[10:32:06] Beirdo: forums suck
[10:32:12] justinh: grey background with slightly lighter grey text
[10:32:23] Beirdo: especially ones that require you to register to even read messages
[10:32:27] Beirdo: screw it
[10:32:38] justinh: nah, I love reading the despair
[10:32:39] Beirdo: night
[10:32:46] justinh: nn
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[11:59:41] justinh: hmm. more tellies getting builtin BBC iPlayer. is convergence finally coming?
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[12:03:31] skd5aner: kormoc: did you get the log I sent on Friday?
[12:04:26] justinh: WTH?! Maverick Meerkat has a 'paid-for software' installerer-ifier?! :-O
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[13:36:28] justinh: awesome. googling for a page filename our DVRs use finds lots of them in internets land
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[14:23:10] hashbang: Is there anyone here who might be able to help diagnose a video signalling problem? (not really on-topic, but...)
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[14:30:43] hashbang: I've got a DVD player connected via 21-wire SCART and a B-Tech Quattro RC SCART switch. If the DVD player is outputing RGB, I get a repeat of high-contrast areas a few scanlines below.
[14:31:15] hashbang: switching scart cables makes no difference, switching inputs on the Quattro makes no difference, other devices on the Quattro have no problem
[14:31:32] hashbang: plugging the DVD player directly into the TV's RGB SCART input resolves the problem
[14:31:49] hashbang: so it's some sort of problem between the Quattro and the DVD player
[14:32:40] hashbang: mismatched impedance? reflections due to incorrect impedance on Quattro or DVD player? crosstalk? gain of composite sync too high?
[14:34:36] justinh: if it's RGB it's prolly that the switch doesn't do RGB
[14:34:47] hashbang: justinh: no, it definitely does.
[14:35:06] hashbang: justinh: I can see the difference if I switch the DVD player to output Svideo or YUV.
[14:35:26] justinh: maybe not all switch ports do RGB then
[14:35:29] hashbang: justinh: my MythTV box is on the Quattro too, connected via a homebrew VGA to RGB SCART cable
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[14:35:39] justinh: and if it's disconnected?
[14:35:54] hashbang: justinh: if I connect the DVD player to the MythTV box's input on the Quattro, the problem remains
[14:36:23] justinh: then I'd say the TV is being forgiving of the DVD player
[14:36:45] hashbang: justinh: whereas the Quattro isn't quite so tolerant.
[14:36:58] justinh: could only be a blanking signal or something
[14:37:26] hashbang: justinh: sounds reasonable. Is there anything I can do to modify the SCART cable and fix it?
[14:37:32] justinh: nope
[14:37:35] hashbang: arse.
[14:37:45] justinh: what kind of doovde player is it?
[14:38:20] hashbang: Kompernass/Silvercrest/Lidl, but I've also seen the problem with a Samsung, IIRC
[14:39:10] hashbang: I was hoping maybe I could add some terminating resistors or attentuate one or more signals using some potential dividers
[14:40:06] justinh: maybe on pin 16
[14:41:24] hashbang: justinh: what would you suggest as a starting point?
[14:41:43] justinh: binning the DVD player & just using mythtv :)
[14:41:47] hashbang: haha
[14:41:48] hashbang: yeah
[14:41:52] justinh: seriously though... I dunno
[14:42:25] hashbang: if only nVidia drivers did XVideo on interlaced modes properly.
[14:42:33] justinh: btw what hardware are you using your diy VGA-scart with ?
[14:42:47] hashbang: nVidia Geforce 440MX
[14:42:58] justinh: is playback ever ok with that?
[14:43:03] skd5aner: ooh, I used to have one of those way back in the day
[14:43:11] justinh: I mean I don't think the driver ever knows which field it's outputting
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[14:43:18] hashbang: works fine, apart from having to deinterlace
[14:43:26] justinh: so you stand a 50–50 chance of playback starting on the wrong field
[14:43:35] justinh: ah. bingo
[14:43:50] hashbang: I think Linear Blend is my fave
[14:44:02] justinh: I was always happy enough with the flicker filter deinterlacing
[14:44:04] hashbang: at least the shapes are right, even if things are a bit blocky
[14:44:15] justinh: eew. linear blend sucks
[14:44:51] justinh: mind, I think that's what I've resorted to falling back to, since none of the 2x deinterlacers work on the intel driver
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[14:44:57] hashbang: old version of MythTV too, so I don't think I have that filter
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[14:45:11] justinh: nah, the tvout encoder flicker filter
[14:45:28] justinh: turned up to about half I found I didn't need to deinterlace at all
[14:46:02] hashbang: ah, interesting
[14:46:29] justinh: some say it softens the image too much but I couldn't tell on a moderately expensive panasonic 32" set
[14:46:37] hashbang: oh, that's off the composite output of the VGA card...
[14:46:45] justinh: or svideo
[14:46:50] ** hashbang nods **
[14:47:10] hashbang: I treat Composite/Svideo very much as a last resort...
[14:47:22] justinh: composite is always a last resort here
[14:47:34] justinh: and I've only one RGB input.. the cable STB uses that
[14:47:45] hashbang: justinh: hence the Quattro
[14:47:59] justinh: I'd rather live with svideo :)
[14:48:39] hashbang: I suspect the answer I'll probably find eventually is getting a plasma and connecting via HDMI and VGA
[14:48:45] justinh: oh boy, that's one fugly box
[14:49:06] hashbang: justinh: the Quattro? Yup.
[14:49:28] justinh: hashbang: I suspect that maybe the quattro is looking for the 'hey I'm RGB' voltage on the SCART & isn't quite seeing it
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[14:49:51] justinh: shove slightly more than 3V up pin 16 & see what happens
[14:50:31] justinh: though I'm not sure you can do that.. the 'blanking' signal might actually be needed too
[14:52:04] hashbang: would need to find some way of biasing the signal, presumably
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[14:52:54] hashbang: with my homebrew, I take the 5V from the VGA socket and put it through a potential divider to get 3V.
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[14:53:58] justinh: is your DIY VGA-SCART adapter even using pin 16? Maybe try snipping it on the DVD player's cable
[14:54:44] hashbang: justinh: yup, added it to my version of the Steve Hall's (nexusuk.org) VGA2SCART circuit
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[14:59:20] justinh: doesn't look like the nexusuk one is using pin16
[14:59:43] justinh: oh wait yeh there it is
[15:02:35] hashbang: justinh: it's in the notes along with Bob van Loosen's circuit to get it from VSync
[15:03:08] justinh: so did your quattro need that to work?
[15:03:26] hashbang: justinh: I think I did it as belt-and-braces to be honest!
[15:03:29] justinh: and did you just buy it so you'd have to occasionally say "Fire up the Quattro!" at home? :-P
[15:03:35] hashbang: heh
[15:03:39] wagnerrp: quattro or quadro?
[15:04:09] wagnerrp: oh, its some video switch
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[15:04:33] justinh: ouchies. £80? More than my telly's worth now lol
[15:04:44] justinh: ooh no, £80 in 2001
[15:05:39] hashbang: justinh: mine was 20 quid off a mate, IIRC
[15:06:29] justinh: I tidied up all my AV cabling at the weekend
[15:06:39] justinh: so no more devices. evah!
[15:07:52] justinh: part of me misses all the wonky types of A/V connector found on tellies in the olden days
[15:09:38] justinh: PL-259, BNC, 5-pin DIN 180', 5-pin DIN 270', 6-pin DIN, 7-pin DIN, 8-pin DIN, RCA ... seen em all
[15:09:55] hashbang: justinh: I think I assumed the TV would have an impedance of 75R and put VGA pin 9 through a 100R resistor to SCART pin 16.
[15:10:17] justinh: reasonable
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[15:15:12] justinh: oh yeah baby. EAT THAT.. lol http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/450307
[15:16:05] justinh: and yeah, his post was a huge insult IMHO
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[15:19:00] hashbang: justinh: thanks for the input on the signalling issue
[15:22:02] justinh: hmm. Must resist the urge to send that guy hate email
[15:25:54] wagnerrp: 'dear chris adams, if your precious xbmc had done things properly in the first place, we wouldnt have to take such measures'
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[15:26:46] justinh: more along the lines of "ooo, slick, slidey UI... with lots of periods of blank screen in between. MythTV can have that too"
[15:27:39] justinh: sitting there in the menu screens, quietly updating a text scroller while your system burns 50% CPU? heheh
[15:27:50] justinh: no thanks!
[15:28:09] justinh: that, and GO DIE IN A FIRE
[15:28:26] justinh: but then, a lot of things I sometimes want to say are best left unsaid
[15:29:02] justinh: I remember how it felt to be approached at a linux show & asked point blank "SO. Why does MythTV SUCK?"
[15:29:44] justinh: rather rich, coming from a Freevo developer, I thought :D
[15:30:13] hashbang: I hope you answered "because it's attractive to a mainstream audience, whose ambition often is greater than their reading comprehension and technical skills"
[15:36:16] justinh: I think I had to count to 30 or so
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[15:54:43] wagnerrp: justinh: after spending all that time documenting the protocol on the wiki, and developing the bindings for the explicit purpose of allowing external access to stuff
[15:54:55] wagnerrp: someone telling me im working to deprive users of alternatives...
[15:55:09] wagnerrp: im really starting to understand your frustration
[15:55:10] justinh: yeah there is that too
[15:55:36] justinh: but still y'all soldier on. you wanna, and nobody else seems to wanna
[15:55:40] wagnerrp: and things like 'this image is all pixellated and broken, can i have the proper one?'
[15:56:12] justinh: I'm trying to forget all the negative crap I've had to deal with & just concentrate on motivating myself to do great things again
[15:57:39] justinh: I've enjoyed what I've done so far, so I'll continue to do it. might finish it sometime too :D
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[15:58:45] justinh: good that folks are so eloquently telling complainers how it is though :-)
[16:00:45] ** justinh ponders. hmmm.. wonder where all the pvr350 users went... **
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[16:16:56] wagnerrp: the five of them are still back in 0.21 so they can continue using the mpeg2 acceleration
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[16:33:02] Captain_Murdoch: that's a part of the reason for the "by developers for developers" statement. I don't regulary shoot down or complain about my own work and even less-seldom do I do it about another developer's work. :)
[16:34:11] Captain_Murdoch: most of the time, it's the few that ruin it for the many. somebody spills hot coffee in their lap, sues, and now everyone is drinking luke-warm java for breakfast.
[16:34:49] Captain_Murdoch: s/somebody spills hot coffee in their lap/somebody puts a cup of hot coffee between their legs and it spills/
[16:36:04] wagnerrp: s/it spills/squeezes it when they panic break because theyre being an idiot and not paying attention to traffic
[16:36:07] iamlindoro: I think that our current level of commitment to making Myth much more user friendly is quite high-- it's the people who want the shortcut with no real understanding of the issues, and are willing to be disrespect all the work that has gone in up to this point that get under ones skin-- and it's easy to get even more offended now that we've adopted a perspective that really *is* genuinely trying to address our shortcomings
[16:36:45] iamlindoro: ie, we're more sensitive to it because contrary to the belief of the few, we're actually *trying* to address the shortcomings, rather than panicing about them and throwing the baby out with the bathwater
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[16:38:01] iamlindoro: It is very sad that so many people think that the only difference between Mythfrontend and XBMC is some flashy UI, and that they are in any way comparable-- as I said last night, you'd spend years trying to get XBMC to have all the features of MythFrontend, or a few months of concerted work to make MythFrontend do all the things that XBMC does UI-wise
[16:39:11] wagnerrp: more disconcerting that 'flashy animation' is the key attribute theyre looking for in a media player
[16:40:10] ** Captain_Murdoch notices those are the people being targetted by the ads we try to skip. :) **
[16:40:41] Captain_Murdoch: form over function
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[16:41:07] Captain_Murdoch: it's prettier, it's gotta be better.
[16:41:10] iamlindoro: There's something to be said for form, but we're working on it
[16:41:29] Captain_Murdoch: iamlindoro, that's because we already have a huge amount of the function.
[16:41:31] iamlindoro: or at least, form enhancing function (ie, easy setup, simple log messages, etc)
[16:41:36] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch: absolutely
[16:41:44] Captain_Murdoch: if we had a flashy mythui but mythbackend was a cron job making recordings then we'd be idiots.
[16:41:57] iamlindoro: Yeah, I completely agree
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[16:42:38] wagnerrp: are you 'shooting down' a certain perl implementation of mythtv?
[16:42:58] Captain_Murdoch: wagnerrp, been there, done that. :)
[16:43:13] Captain_Murdoch: for all of posterity/googlers to see
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[16:43:40] Captain_Murdoch: I think I even saved that as a text file so I don't lose track of it.
[16:43:44] iamlindoro: Anyway, I think we are right in targeting ease of use as our next major overhaul
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[16:44:31] kormoc: skd5aner, Aye, and I have a patch for you to try
[16:44:35] iamlindoro: If the only major thing we have left to tackle is UI flash, we will be very well off indeed
[16:44:51] iamlindoro: But I think easy setup/settings is a much higher priority
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[16:48:27] Beirdo: iamlindoro: yeah, setup does need some TLC :)
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[16:48:54] iamlindoro: I think people would complain about Myth much less if the setup process was 10 minutes instead of 10 days
[16:49:21] Beirdo: or at least they'd find better things to complain about, and maybe even constructively
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[17:12:29] skd5aner: New users...
[17:12:41] skd5aner: I rarely have to deal with settings or setup since I did that back in 2004
[17:13:19] skd5aner: although channel scanning for QAM when lineup changes happen is something I have to deal with too frequently and can be tedious
[17:13:36] tank-man: "set it and forget it"
[17:14:06] skd5aner: just saying, "mythtv users" don't typically complain about settings... but probably every new user does as a bar to entry
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[17:15:27] wagnerrp: even veteran users dont know what half the settings and options do
[17:15:51] skd5aner: well, a good percentage I'm sure
[17:15:55] skd5aner: (of settings)
[17:16:42] skd5aner: I think one thing I've struggled with is understanding if new settings were added or existing changes were modified when new releases come out
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[17:16:58] skd5aner: so, in the past I would go through every menu, looking for differences – that wasn't very fun either :)
[17:17:33] skd5aner: playback profiles and audio settings are great recent examples
[17:17:51] skd5aner: painters, filters, etc
[17:18:22] iamlindoro: skd5aner: Veteran users don't complain about settings because their hubris has them checking options without knowing what they do because they figure they must know better
[17:18:51] skd5aner: I assume, since I read -commits, that I have a much beter understanding of what to look for related to changed settings, but many people probably just do "apt-get upgrade" and don't have a clue :)
[17:19:24] iamlindoro: ie, they may not know to blame the settings, but their periodic breakage of their myth system (that gets blamed on myth) is usually their toggling one of the proponderance of settings and blaming myth for letting them do so
[17:19:56] iamlindoro: And to a certain extent, that *is* myth's fault-- we shouldn't have so many fiddly knobs when it harms so many more users than it helps
[17:20:18] skd5aner: it's like the nuclear plant control panel, heh ;)
[17:20:25] iamlindoro: example: the two nearly-identical-sounding audio buffer settings that we are finally free of, one of which broke 90% of systems but *sounded* good
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[17:20:36] iamlindoro: it will just take some time to get rid of all those cases
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[17:20:49] wagnerrp: the 'aggressive' one?
[17:20:53] skd5aner: yea, those were annoying – especially when spread amongst totally different screens
[17:21:04] iamlindoro: Setup is by far the bigger hurdle, and we could fix 90% of stup/settings complaints by tackling that
[17:21:12] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: yeah
[17:21:14] stuartm: wagnerrp: the aggressive audio buffering and extra audio buffering settings
[17:22:17] stuartm: which sounds like they were related, but one adjusted the buffer in the decoding and the other adjusted the output buffer
[17:23:14] stuartm: which is the reason one was in the general settings with other audio related settings and one was in playback settings, but not enough thought was given to how confusing all that was and whether it was _really_ needed
[17:23:33] kormoc: skd5aner, http://www.kormoc.com/websvn/wsvn/Portage%20E . . . urce-2.patch
[17:23:43] kormoc: skd5aner, if you can give that patch a go and let me know
[17:23:50] iamlindoro: stuartm: and the fact that the settings were added as a shortcut rather than tackling the problems that made them necessary
[17:24:14] iamlindoro: evidenced by the fact that both are gone now-- both were unnecessary when the root issue was solved properly
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[17:24:49] iamlindoro: and that's the kind of setting I am dead set against ever adding again-- we've actually done pretty great the last year or so-- very few settings that are completely opaque like that, if any
[17:25:02] stuartm: iamlindoro: exactly, a large percentage of our settings were added as quick workarounds for bugs or to placate 0.01% of users, even with the recent shakeup we're still not free of them
[17:28:11] stuartm: another category of settings I'd like to sort are the ones which serve a valid purpose for some users, with certain hardware or living in certain locales, but just get in the way and confuse everyone else
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[17:28:53] stuartm: we shouldn't be offering a setting if we can reliably determine that it doesn't apply to that instance of mythtv
[17:29:16] iamlindoro: agree
[17:30:03] skd5aner: kormoc: I'll backup my db, but it's my production .23-fixes one. Is there little risk in applying and running the patch?
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[17:46:06] skd5aner: kormoc: ^^^^ ping
[17:47:53] kormoc: skd5aner, should be none, worse comes to worse, just run it again without the patch and all will be well
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[17:52:15] sphery: stuartm: I like this quote about settings (from http://lpar.ath0.com/2009/09/25/documentation . . . ode-quality/ ): To quote Ted Nelson quoting Roger Gregory, "An option means the programmer didn't have a clear idea of what the module was supposed to do." Or as Steve Krug puts it, "Don't make me think."
[17:52:30] skd5aner: kormoc: ok, getting ready to run
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[18:09:30] blizzard`: Question, freshly installed backend server. Trying to run mythtv-setup. Fonts are scaled really awkward. A line of text that describes a field that should be filled with values (ie Database:) shows more or less like a horizotal line with 1 pixel in height.
[18:10:23] blizzard`: it goes up in fullscreen tho, and the size of the fields to fill with values are good, just the text that's awkward... like dpi gone bad..
[18:12:24] blizzard`: anyone got an idea why? and what to do about it?
[18:17:03] blizzard`: same problem as this guy: http://hennep.xs4all.nl/gentoo/screenshot1.png
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[18:18:58] wagnerrp: come now, thats at least two pixels high
[18:20:18] stuartm: heh
[18:22:06] ** iamlindoro pokes sphery **
[18:22:09] iamlindoro: tell 'im
[18:22:37] sphery: blizzard`: a) you're using an old, broken version of MythTV, b) you've specified a theme that doesn't exist, and c) the /2/ fallback themes that are distributed as part of the mythtv core package do not exist
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[18:23:01] blizzard`: 2010-09–07 20:18:08.673 Could not find theme:  – Switching to Terra
[18:23:02] sphery: blizzard`: i.e. we have no way of drawing any theme stuff, so it gets stuck
[18:23:04] blizzard`: hm =)
[18:23:18] sphery: blizzard`: yeah, and there's another about how it can't find MythCenter (secondary fallback)
[18:23:34] sphery: blizzard`: so basically, broken install
[18:23:45] sphery: but you should update to current 0.23-fixes, anyway
[18:23:51] blizzard`: oh wait
[18:23:54] blizzard`: false alarm
[18:24:02] sphery: it will then give you the full error message
[18:24:05] blizzard`: I found a post that said I should try another theme, so I did
[18:24:10] blizzard`: and that theme wasnt found
[18:24:19] blizzard`: oh
[18:24:20] blizzard`: 2010-09–07 20:23:50.425 Could not find theme:  – Switching to Terra
[18:24:27] sphery: and neither is Terra or MythCenter
[18:24:31] sphery: so you still have a broken install
[18:24:36] blizzard`: same goes for "without any speficied themes"
[18:25:34] blizzard`: grabbing the themes package
[18:25:48] skd5aner: sphery: it's going to be fun breaking apart everything that went into 26111 for the changelog ;)
[18:25:57] sphery: blizzard`: while at it, grab the updated MythTV package, too :)
[18:26:23] blizzard`: sphery, this is when you're asking me for the dist of choice, which you know already, and then will flame =)
[18:26:37] sphery: blizzard`: i.e. for *buntu, http://www.mythbuntu.org/auto-builds , and select either 0.23.1 version
[18:26:47] sphery: Oh, so I'm guessing it's not *buntu, then?
[18:26:50] blizzard`: it's ver 0.23.1
[18:26:54] blizzard`: naah
[18:27:05] blizzard`: but ubuntu is buildt upon the dist im using ;)
[18:28:26] blizzard`: hm
[18:28:59] blizzard`: still no luck thus the themes package
[18:29:02] blizzard`: same result
[18:29:11] blizzard`: how can I change the default theme?
[18:29:18] blizzard`: (if that is the problem)
[18:29:42] blizzard`: as said before, it's a fresh install, all by packages, so I havnt modified theme settings or similar
[18:29:52] blizzard`: and its a standalone backend
[18:30:00] sphery: the fix should be in 0.23.1... I'm thinking you're in 0.23
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[18:30:32] sphery: blizzard`: please post the entire frontend logs from a single run to http://mythtv.pastebin.com/
[18:30:52] blizzard`: blizzard@snowball:~$ mythtv-setup -O Theme=Terra
[18:30:54] blizzard`: YEY! =)
[18:31:00] blizzard`: that one solved it
[18:31:41] sphery: blizzard`: please show me the log, anyway
[18:31:51] sphery: I need to see if you've found another similar bug
[18:32:00] blizzard`: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/EK9xsecB
[18:32:02] blizzard`: just did
[18:32:28] blizzard`: the quitting is me doing esc-esc-esc till it drops out...
[18:32:28] sphery: blizzard`: and can you do a mythfrontend --version , please
[18:32:32] blizzard`: no
[18:32:38] blizzard`: standalone backend =)
[18:32:54] sphery: ok, then mythbackend --version
[18:33:31] blizzard`: added to the post
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[18:33:54] iamlindoro: URLs change, you can't just add things
[18:33:57] iamlindoro: need the new URL
[18:34:03] blizzard`: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/T2aXwdYk
[18:34:14] blizzard`: ah, you're right
[18:34:16] blizzard`: didnt notice
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[18:40:12] sphery: blizzard`: thanks... I think I see what's happening
[18:40:47] sphery: you're in the initial database setup mode--before we load the theme the first time--and it seems that section of code doesn't exit if there's no valid theme
[18:40:56] sphery: I'll get a patch in soon
[18:41:33] Gibby: my system is seeing and reporting my tuner card, but myth can't probe it....
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[18:42:08] sphery: Gibby: sounds like permissions problem
[18:42:37] wagnerrp: strk: http://mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo
[18:42:39] Gibby: sphery, wierd, it saw it last week and i had it setup, i can see the video, so I removed it from myth and now can't add it back
[18:43:08] blizzard`: sphery, sounds right yes, it just defaults back to Terra, which looks like it should except for the fontsize=1pixel_height =)
[18:43:44] skd5aner: kormoc: getting ready to send you the new log via email now, went from ~40 mins to ~26 mins
[18:44:04] kormoc: cool
[18:45:12] sphery: nice
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[18:45:56] trumee: what is the best naming scheme i should use while recording so they are sorted by date/time in mythvide?
[18:46:03] Gibby: how do i check the permissions?
[18:46:30] wagnerrp: trumee: why not sort by season and episode number?
[18:46:50] sphery: naming scheme while recording?
[18:47:00] sphery: mythtv has a single naming scheme
[18:47:07] strk: wagnerrp: found the setup app, thanks
[18:47:11] trumee: sphery: sorry while encoding.
[18:47:16] sphery: oh... sorry
[18:47:26] sphery: I got hung up on the "recording" part and it confused me
[18:47:32] dustybin: do you guys use your own BASH scripts what work with your mythtv setup to do specific tasks?
[18:47:35] trumee: sphery: i want to record, encode and drop in mythvideo folder.
[18:47:52] wagnerrp: trumee: right, why not sort by season and episode number?
[18:47:55] strk: wagnerrp: any clicky-clicky way to rescan media dirs ?
[18:48:07] strk: or, are symlinks followed ?
[18:48:10] sphery: Gibby: ls -lR /dev/video* /dev/dvb*
[18:48:11] wagnerrp: strk: 'clicky-clicky'?
[18:48:18] trumee: wagnerrp: there is not season/episode number in epg. all i get is title of the show.
[18:48:22] wagnerrp: yes, symlinks are followed
[18:48:27] strk: wagnerrp: from within the UI
[18:48:29] wagnerrp: trumee: so pull the data off thetvdb
[18:48:40] wagnerrp: strk: the only way to rescan the dirs is through the UI
[18:48:41] strk: (I've added symlinks from the shell, but still getting "No files found" message
[18:48:59] strk: in "Watch Videos"
[18:49:11] wagnerrp: its all on that wiki link
[18:49:33] sphery: strk: make sure permissions on the directories leading up to and the file itself are appropriate
[18:49:38] wagnerrp: http://mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo#Scanning_for_Videos
[18:49:56] sphery: i.e. you need rx on the directories and r on the file for the user running the backend and/or frontend
[18:50:31] strk: uhm, what's MENU ?
[18:50:35] wagnerrp: trumee: perhaps... http://mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvidexport.py
[18:50:38] trumee: wagnerrp: data is not available in thetvdb. currenlty i use $TITLE-$STARTTIME.mpg as the recording
[18:50:44] wagnerrp: strk: whatever key you have it set to
[18:50:46] wagnerrp: default is 'm'
[18:51:00] strk: ah, great
[18:51:10] strk: just have 'about' and 'cancel' in that menu
[18:51:21] sphery: someone isn't in MythVideo
[18:51:41] sphery: perhaps that page should actually say, "Go into MythVideo," since so many people forget that step
[18:51:44] strk: ehm, please bear with me
[18:51:48] trumee: wagnerrp: and the recording comes out with a long name with date/time whose title is cut off in mythvideo
[18:52:04] strk: also 'Go into MythVideo' isn't straightforward for me
[18:52:19] strk: I'm _guessing_ that is "Media Library -> Watch Videos"
[18:52:21] trumee: i want to rename files so that they are sorted date wise in mythvideo.
[18:52:33] wagnerrp: trumee: the default syntax does not include date or time of recording
[18:52:36] strk: and indeed I find the "Scan For Changes" menu in there
[18:52:37] wagnerrp: that sounds like something you set
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[18:53:11] trumee: wagnerrp: yes, i do that external via a script. since i want to know what day the program was recorded/broadcast.
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[18:53:31] wagnerrp: take a look at that python script
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[18:55:00] trumee: wagnerrp: does that script insert into mythvideo?
[18:55:06] wagnerrp: yes
[18:55:19] strk: uhm, looks like mythtv user (running backend) doesn't indeed have read permission to my videos
[18:55:59] trumee: wagnerrp: i want to insert on a separate mythtv backend. i have two backends one does the recording and another one where i want to watch shows.
[18:56:26] wagnerrp: are they on the same mythtv system?
[18:56:28] iamlindoro: "I want to steal shows rom a friend's house"
[18:56:36] strk: oh, and it's a fat32 filesystem on an usb drive
[18:56:37] wagnerrp: or are you running two independent mythtv systems?
[18:56:49] trumee: wagnerrp:yes, independent sysytems.
[18:56:50] strk: automounted to user
[18:56:57] strk: annoying, isn't it
[18:57:08] wagnerrp: trumee: that setup makes no sense to us, so we do not support it
[18:57:56] trumee: wagnerrp: i am asking about the sorting order in mythvideo.
[18:58:46] trumee: is there any sorting order in mythvideo at all. is it filename based, modified time based or something else.
[18:59:36] wagnerrp: there are no special concessions in mythvideo for record date, as videos are not intended to have a record date
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[19:00:01] trumee: wagnerrp: so is the sorting based on filenames?
[19:00:08] wagnerrp: no
[19:00:36] wagnerrp: its based on the given metadata
[19:00:51] wagnerrp: normally, season and episode number
[19:01:04] stuartm: it makes sense to me in the context of parental controls etc, something I want to address with the multi-user support, just hiding recordings sometimes isn't enough if little johnny is able to see from the schedules that you are recording porn and it doesn't prevent little johnny from setting up those schedules himself
[19:01:07] trumee: wagnerrp: ah i see. so there has to be metadata inserted for the video.
[19:01:36] trumee: wagnerrp: can it not be based a flat file based syste?
[19:02:00] wagnerrp: if such data is not available, it goes alphabetically by 'title'
[19:02:13] wagnerrp: followed by 'subtitle'
[19:02:21] wagnerrp: i dont know how numbers are handled
[19:02:37] wagnerrp: its probably just simple left-to-right
[19:02:59] trumee: wagnerrp: so johny-01 will preceded johny-02?
[19:03:12] wagnerrp: yes
[19:03:49] wagnerrp: but johny-100 will also precede johny-20
[19:04:05] wagnerrp: if you have such numbers, put them in the episode number
[19:04:30] iamlindoro: Better still, create the show at thetvdb
[19:04:37] iamlindoro: that way everyone wins...
[19:04:50] wagnerrp: i assume hes recording news shows, or something similar
[19:04:55] wagnerrp: late night tv maybe
[19:05:01] iamlindoro: can still go to tvdb
[19:05:47] iamlindoro: Then airdate will exist, will populate the mythvideo releasedate field, and they can be sorted as such
[19:07:28] trumee: wagnerrp, iamlindoro: that is all i have in epg, http://www.pastie.org/1144258
[19:08:13] trumee: no season/episode numbers. i can distinguish between shows by date only.
[19:10:00] trumee: wagnerrp: so i should generate fictitious season/episode number. i am happy to populate tvdb.
[19:10:45] wagnerrp: trumee: then that mythvidexport.py will still work
[19:11:06] wagnerrp: it wont find any match, so it will fall through to the generic export
[19:11:28] wagnerrp: and releasedate/originalairdate is properly handled
[19:11:50] trumee: wagnerrp: what will it import into mythvideo metadata and how will the sorting work?
[19:12:11] wagnerrp: i assume sort-by-releasedate is one of the optional alternate sorting mechanisms
[19:12:13] blizzard`: feeding mythtv my dvb-s channels.conf still doesnt work?
[19:12:36] blizzard`: or what is the "right way" to do an initial dvb-s scan nowdays?
[19:12:38] blizzard`: fresh install
[19:12:38] Gibby: sphery: http://pastebin.com/quRKh2nG
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[19:14:16] trumee: wagnerrp: how do i access the sorting mechanism?
[19:14:25] wagnerrp: should be in the 'm' menu
[19:14:32] wagnerrp: dont remember off hand, never used it
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[19:14:44] sphery: Gibby: so mythtv-setup and mythbackend must be run by a user in the video group
[19:15:11] sphery: if that doesn't help, look closely at the log messages
[19:15:11] Beirdo: hmmm, what to eat
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[19:15:38] trumee: wagnerrp: is the Filters video list?
[19:15:50] Gibby: sphery, i am
[19:16:09] trumee: wagnerrp: ah, there is a Sort by in "Filters video list"
[19:16:59] trumee: wagnerrp: and no it doesnt have sort-by-releasedate as an option in the sorting mechanism.
[19:17:13] trumee: wagnerrp: although it has title.
[19:17:26] wagnerrp: i think you want 'browse by'
[19:18:15] trumee: wagnerrp: Browse by has "Date Added"
[19:18:45] wagnerrp: unless sorting falls through to releasedate if everything else matches
[19:18:46] wagnerrp: i dont know
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[19:19:51] Beirdo: BAH!
[19:20:01] Beirdo: so the Register says we do DLNA now.
[19:20:26] ** Beirdo grumbles and oes goff to get lunch **
[19:20:37] Beirdo: goes off rather. WTH?
[19:21:08] Shadow__X: Beirdo: empanadas
[19:21:29] Beirdo: nah, I don't want em
[19:21:41] wagnerrp: got a link? i dont see it
[19:21:50] Beirdo: see the -lusers ML
[19:21:57] Beirdo: geez. -users
[19:22:08] Beirdo: my fingers are NOT being kind, sorry
[19:22:35] wagnerrp: i figured that was intentional
[19:23:08] Beirdo: freudian slip, I guess
[19:23:40] Beirdo: be back in a bit
[19:23:45] Beirdo: going hunting
[19:23:52] wagnerrp: hunting?
[19:24:01] wagnerrp: for fast food?
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[19:25:28] trumee: wagnerrp: this inserting into metadata is tricky, can i name the shows in a sensible manner so that johny-100 comes after johny-2?
[19:26:04] wagnerrp: you could make it 002
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[19:26:49] trumee: wagnerrp: right. this is the same issue doing ls in a shell.
[19:28:11] trumee: wagnerrp: i think i am happy with this solution. thanks.
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[19:32:53] RogerM: Question: Is VERBOSE(VB_GENERAL()) supposed to be translated?
[19:33:06] wagnerrp: logging does not get translated
[19:33:12] wagnerrp: only UI messages and text
[19:33:38] RogerM: wagnerrp: I found this line in mythweather: VERBOSE(VB_GENERAL, tr("Script %1 is still running when trying to do update, "
[19:34:00] iamlindoro: RogerM: No
[19:34:13] iamlindoro: None of the verbose logging is to be translated
[19:34:26] iamlindoro: Whoops, wagnerrp beat me to it
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[19:35:19] RogerM: iamlindoro: well as you see a couple of lines above I've found a verbose() with a tr(). Doesnt look correct, right?
[19:35:53] iamlindoro: Yeah, though it really doesn't matter that much. Could pull the tr()
[19:36:09] iamlindoro: The policy, generally speaking, is that logging is not translated
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[19:36:15] iamlindoro: Someone just messed up
[19:36:19] trumee: wagnerrp: is there any script which can import nuvexport encoded file into mythvideo. i noticed nuvexport write a .txt file with the show description.
[19:36:43] wagnerrp: can nuvexport transcode in-place?
[19:37:20] high-rez: I have no idea why, but in trunk my frontend/masterbackend machine has been really really slow. E.g. if I'm watching live tv and I try hittup the up or down keys to change channels (not instant change, just to see whats on the channels) it takes /forever/. Like a minute for the screne to update – during which the video playback on the current channel completely breaks.
[19:37:21] RogerM: iamlindoro: That's what I thought. I'll drop a ticket about it later then.
[19:37:32] iamlindoro: RogerM: Not sure if it's worth a ticket...
[19:37:37] Gumby: hi all. I'm trying to google for the answer to this question but perhaps I am googling the wrong thing. I get what I can only describe as a stutter in livetv each hour on the hour and it happens whether the program I am watching is over, or whether it is still playing. Is there something specific I can search to find out how to resolve this?
[19:37:46] wagnerrp: Beirdo: ^^^
[19:37:47] high-rez: Weird enough, on my other machine (frontend/slave backend) I don't see this behavior at all...
[19:37:48] trumee: wagnerrp: i am able to transcode with nuvexport.
[19:38:44] trumee: wagnerrp: i get a nice text file with the encoded file, http://www.pastie.org/1144337
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[19:39:21] jhp: Evening everyone. I use mythtv, and I'm really happy about it. Today I noticed my programguide is not being updated anymore and it looks to me like the site I was scraping daily is blocking my IP.
[19:39:32] jhp: Is their some place you cat get prefilled xmltv files ?
[19:39:49] bjd_: schedules direct or soemthing?
[19:40:08] wagnerrp: jhp: if the site is blocking your IP, its likely because you are not allowed to access that data
[19:40:14] wagnerrp: find a new source
[19:40:20] trumee: bjd_: schedules-direct is US only?
[19:40:30] wagnerrp: trumee: correct
[19:40:38] wagnerrp: bjd_: jhp is in the netherlands
[19:40:38] trumee: jhp: what country?
[19:40:49] trumee: wagnerrp: ok
[19:41:08] iamlindoro: http://graphics.tudelft.nl/~paul/grabber/
[19:41:24] iamlindoro: or whatever other tv_grab_nl there is for xmltv
[19:41:58] iamlindoro: http://wiki.mythtv.nl/index.php/Grabbers
[19:42:06] knightr: SchedulesDirect is US and Canada...
[19:42:14] iamlindoro: lots and lots of nl grabbers...
[19:42:32] knightr: (You know that small country just above the US... (-; )
[19:43:33] iamlindoro: knightr: never heard of it
[19:45:34] knightr: hey, where's your smiley? (-;
[19:45:49] iamlindoro: ;)
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[19:51:53] Gibby: ok, i try to do a scan now on my tuner and it crashes back to the desktop
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[19:55:40] wagnerrp: is this guy being sarcastic? i dont really know whats going on... http://www.mythtvtalk.com/house-cleaning-afte . . . 2/#post53950
[19:55:59] wagnerrp: i gave him the correct link, and he seems to have managed to find an old redirect on his own
[19:56:05] wagnerrp: one with no links to it anywhere on the wiki
[19:56:16] wagnerrp: and it seems hes blaming me for deleting it
[19:57:20] iamlindoro: Seems sarcastic, your link works fine though...
[19:57:52] wagnerrp: so where did he find the link to that dead page?
[19:58:35] iamlindoro: No idea, was trying to figure that out
[19:59:23] jams: wow he is still using .20
[19:59:34] iamlindoro: and apparently the .20 version of the wiki ;)
[19:59:55] iamlindoro: There have been a number of people randomly popping up for support of .20 and .21 lately... weirdos
[20:00:00] wagnerrp: the version info in the top right says 0.23
[20:00:08] wagnerrp: seems he just never updated his signature to match
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[20:04:38] wagnerrp: HAHAHAHA
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[20:04:52] sphery: iamlindoro: everyone knows that 0.20 is the second most stable version of MythTV--next to 0.18.1
[20:05:02] Beirdo: what about 0.16
[20:05:09] wagnerrp: 'At any moment, Justin Bieber uses 3% of our infrastructure. Racks of servers are dedicated to him. — Twitter employee'
[20:05:40] sphery: ok, maybe 0.16 was better than 0.20... it's a close run
[20:05:50] Beirdo: hehe :)
[20:07:00] stuartm: wagnerrp: I must be _really_ out of touch, never heard of the guy
[20:07:15] iamlindoro: before all that Schedules Direct and MythUI nonsense got in the way
[20:07:30] Beirdo: sound like you and I are ad an advantage, stuartm. Never heard of him either :)
[20:07:34] wagnerrp: stuartm: just another teeny bopper
[20:07:38] iamlindoro: And Qt4, why it's downright revolutionary!
[20:07:45] Beirdo: iamlindoro: yeah, back in the old days...
[20:07:50] sphery: iamlindoro: and back when Live TV worked like a 1993-style DVR
[20:08:05] Beirdo: heh. Gotta say, I do really like my setup now
[20:08:21] wagnerrp: stuartm: dont feel bad
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[20:08:22] iamlindoro: sphery: I spoke to my officemate and apparently his Dish network modern DVr still works like that too
[20:08:32] sphery: heh, true
[20:08:36] sphery: and so does TiVo
[20:08:51] sphery: ttbomk, at least
[20:08:52] wagnerrp: stuartm: i only heard about him a couple weeks ago, when there was news about some 'pop idol faceplants on his segway'
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[20:08:54] iamlindoro: Evidently you can press record in Live TV and it will record from that moment on... but amusingly, you can record BACK to whatever the beginning of the ringbuffer is and press record, and it will record from *that* moment on
[20:09:01] iamlindoro: er rewind BACK
[20:09:02] stuartm: wagnerrp: heh
[20:09:02] Beirdo: oh now, sphery said the "T-word"
[20:09:19] sphery: heh
[20:09:28] sphery: iamlindoro: nice design, that
[20:09:32] iamlindoro: ie if you are at 00:15:00 and press record, it will record from then on... but if you rewind to whatever the earliest extent of the RB is and press record.. you get it from *that* point
[20:09:32] stuartm: tivo > mythtv
[20:09:48] sphery: no wonder we get such grief over our UI design--that's a feature I never would have thought to implement
[20:09:49] stuartm: but only because of those cute/silly little noises it makes
[20:09:57] Beirdo: that can be implemented
[20:10:00] sphery: "ability for user to decide how much of a partial recording to keep"
[20:10:20] Beirdo: oooh, another setting for it...
[20:10:23] ** Beirdo runs **
[20:10:30] sphery: Beirdo / stuartm : speaking of which... Can I remove the LIRC keypress application support?
[20:10:42] sphery: then we can do proper audio feedback support as part of mythui
[20:11:00] Beirdo: wouldn't bug me one bit, but I bet someone will whine
[20:11:00] sphery: Beirdo: not settings, audio themes
[20:11:14] sphery: oh, wait, my grandma shouldn't have to edit XML to use her DVR
[20:11:19] stuartm: sphery: the non-native stuff?
[20:11:35] wagnerrp: stuartm: didnt we have that too? the mepo... thing?
[20:11:40] Beirdo: and what if you want it to make fart noises when a recording fails? gotta be able to tweak the sounds...
[20:11:48] stuartm: sphery: or some setting I've long forgotten?
[20:12:03] wagnerrp: huh
[20:12:11] wagnerrp: its bright out, the sun is shining, and... its raining
[20:12:17] sphery: stuartm: "LIRC Keypress Application: External application or script to run when a keypress is received by LIRC." TTBOMK, it was added as a hack to allow users to set up some script to play an audio snippet with each key press
[20:12:29] iamlindoro: Heh, there's another request for .21 help on the users list...
[20:12:36] Beirdo: or to flash an LED or something, I guess
[20:12:40] sphery: stuartm: something they could just as easily do by having 2 mappings for each LIRC button... One to program = mythtv and one to program = myaudioplayerscript
[20:12:46] iamlindoro: "[mythtv-users] Frontend hangs on playing recordings from a channel"
[20:12:47] Beirdo: doesn't necessarily have to be audio
[20:12:53] stuartm: heh, which dusty recess of the settings screens did you drag that one up from?
[20:13:04] iamlindoro: three year old FE hangs on modern recording...
[20:13:09] Beirdo: heh.
[20:13:16] sphery: stuartm: actually, /main general/ settings... (last page, though)
[20:13:19] stuartm: sphery: as far as I'm concerned you can bin it
[20:13:28] sphery: that's /so/ not a main setting
[20:13:43] sphery: granted, fits better there than anywhere else, but...
[20:13:44] Beirdo: if the one user complains, maybe we can get it implemented "right"? :)
[20:13:44] wagnerrp: stuartm: apparently he was seen riding around on his segway, and a flash mob of pre-teen girls materialized out of thin air
[20:13:52] Beirdo: I doubt anyone uses it
[20:13:54] wagnerrp: one of them got a foot in front of the wheel, and down he went
[20:14:03] stuartm: sphery: ah well I don't usually have much reason to go through those settings
[20:14:52] stuartm: wagnerrp: *chuckle*
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[20:16:10] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: I guess someone threw a water bottle into his head at a concert recently, too, heheh
[20:16:34] stuartm: I was thinking about the sound on event stuff just the other night, I just don't have much interest in writing it myself
[20:16:37] sphery: stuartm: "Ability to spawn a program every lirc press, patch by Dan Morphis." from [3482] + http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/20659#20659
[20:16:49] sphery: stuartm: so he's using it for something else, but it /should/ be done via lircrc, instead
[20:17:10] stuartm: iamlindoro: well an accident is one thing, but that sounds just mean ;)
[20:17:30] knightr: iamlindoro: We can use the "Translations" category for something other than the translations themselves? I was looking for something more specific than general (like "MythFrontend" or frontend) but did not found anything and did not think I could put it under Translations...
[20:17:48] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e50vqY7Szo
[20:18:00] iamlindoro: knightr: Just use your best judgment
[20:18:13] iamlindoro: knightr: it was more translation related than general so I went with that
[20:18:16] stuartm: sphery: so long as you're willing to argue it should someone complain, then do what you like :)
[20:18:38] sphery: should I bounce it off one or the other list, first?
[20:18:53] sphery: and, yeah, this is one I'll argue vehemently over
[20:19:00] sphery: it can all be done via LIRC itself
[20:19:20] stuartm: don't think there is much need for that, if they really want the functionality to run through myth, then they can extend the new events system
[20:19:26] iamlindoro: knightr: You didn't do anything wrong, I think it's fine to put patches taht relate to the translatability of strings in under that heading
[20:19:27] sphery: and audio playback with it doesn't work properly because there's too much latency between keypress and spawning the new app
[20:19:38] sphery: stuartm: beautiful... thanks
[20:19:51] sphery: and for the event reminder, too :)
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[20:20:48] sphery: iamlindoro: btw, did you hear that sony released a mandatory PS3 firmware update?  :)
[20:21:00] stuartm: knightr: what sort of interest do you think there would be amongst translators in working on the new locale configs? We're weeks from a release but so far we only have configs for en_gb and en_us
[20:21:03] iamlindoro: sphery: Mandatory if you want to use PSN, I guess
[20:21:05] knightr: iamlindoro: Thanks!Will keep that in mind...
[20:21:27] kenni: iamlindoro: Good to know, I've been wondering about this for a while...always went with Translation, though :)
[20:21:41] sphery: yeah, but if you don't want to use your PS3 as a PS3, then why get it
[20:22:01] sphery: though some of those folks using the bad hack might use it for single-player play with "backups"
[20:23:10] iamlindoro: kenni: There's no harm one way or another, I think either is perfectly fine (General or Translations)... I just prefer to be more specific than less, but each of us has our own style of dealing with tickets
[20:23:25] stuartm: kenni, knightr: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/24942 http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . es/en_gb.xml
[20:23:42] iamlindoro: sphery: Personally don't care for anything found online/to play with others, so PSN means nothing to me
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[20:23:47] knightr: stuartm: I lost most of the info I had on that subject when my pc blew up so I'll have to dig it up... I think that in my case at the time this was mentionned I thought it could cause problems since the French translation is not only used by people from France but people from elsewhere (I'm Canadian...)
[20:24:10] knightr: stuartm, thanks, will do some reading now... hold on...
[20:24:42] iamlindoro: knightr: Why? You would use the fr_ca locale setting, it encompasses both locale and language
[20:24:51] sphery: iamlindoro: ah... Yeah, I guess I'm spoiled by the XBox Live (not $10 more per year!) online experience--at least I am in between RRoD's
[20:24:51] iamlindoro: and france would be, presumably, fr_fr
[20:25:03] sphery: er, /now/ $10 more per year
[20:25:04] Gibby: i rebooted and it is still doing the samething, when i am in the backend setup and select my tuner that i have my antenna attached to and select scan and it crashes back to the desktop
[20:26:22] knightr: Depends on how tightly binded it is to the translations themselves... If it's not it's not an issue, if it is fr_CA doesn't exist yet (I plan to do it though...)
[20:26:47] knightr: imalindoro: yes, that would be the proper locale...
[20:26:54] iamlindoro: knightr: It's not bound to the translations-- stuartm is asking because the translators are presumably the same people who would be interested in improving the overall experience for their locale and language
[20:27:25] iamlindoro: ie the Danish translators might be the same people willing to figure out which default settings would be best for .dk
[20:28:18] knightr: I saw it because I follow the commits almost religiously but most of the translations probably did not notice it... I would suggest a post on the translator mailing list then...
[20:28:36] stuartm: knightr: not tied to translations at all, and any valid locale can be added, should just work
[20:28:43] iamlindoro: it's just a nice way to make the default experience in a given locale and language take less effort/setup (ie frequency tables/TV format/etc. set properly)
[20:29:42] knightr: OK so it's definitely worth mentionning on the mailing list...
[20:30:09] iamlindoro: stuartm: I know we've talked about it before, but I feel strongly that the scanning/channel setup behavior should be enhanced by locale settings in our setup rewrite
[20:30:20] RogerM: iamlindoro: And maybe a short info about it on the wiki/translation page?
[20:30:42] iamlindoro: RogerM: Well, it's not really related to translations at all, but if someone documents the locale settings, they could always link it there
[20:30:46] stuartm: almost _any_ setting can have a locale default, it's assumed that most will override the common stuff like frequency tables, but there may also be settings that we've never even considered as being related to locale, the duplicate matching setting I've used in en_gb.xml is just one example of that sort of thing
[20:32:37] stuartm: currently there are some obvious capabilities missing though, e.g. you cannot pre-select the xmltv grabber, might try to fix some of those before 0.24
[20:32:40] ** RogerM wish he could do a channel scan and just cherry pick the channels of interest without adding duplicates and/or overwriting old channels **
[20:33:16] iamlindoro: RogerM: Yes, we will hopefully address that in the setup rewrite
[20:33:36] stuartm: Beirdo: are you aware of any build issues relating to the lirc/js locks?
[20:34:02] Beirdo: yes, if you have the symbol visibility setting on, it craps
[20:34:13] stuartm: ok, just so you're aware :0
[20:34:34] Beirdo: I have a patch ready to go to fix the underlying problem (stemmed from moving it from mythui to mythdb before I got to it)
[20:34:35] RogerM: iamlindoro: Then I'm looking forward to it. =) I've had a couple of head aches when they change channel information..
[20:35:06] Beirdo: need to stress test it tonight, but it's pretty much ready, Captain_Murdoch and sphery both have taken a look at it
[20:35:10] knightr: stuartm: The name of thos settings are the ones from the DB right?
[20:35:44] knightr: oops, those not thos...
[20:36:20] Beirdo: we ended up with a circular dependency when I reenabled the lirc/js locks
[20:37:05] Beirdo: fun times... It works without the symbol flag though. And will be fixed tonight unless something drastic happens in testing
[20:37:27] Beirdo: I now am always compiling with that on, BTW
[20:38:03] high-rez: Beirdo: Any chance I could get some help in debugging an issue I've been seeing in trunk? :)
[20:38:27] stuartm: knightr: anything in the settings table, although there are some 'hidden' settings which may not appear in everyone's setting table :/
[20:38:28] Beirdo: maybe
[20:38:45] Beirdo: what's the issue?
[20:40:09] high-rez: Beirdo: Basically, I have two systems. The masterbackend/frontend system and the slavebackend/frontend system. They're both at the same svn rev of trunk. Here's the odd thing – the masterbackend is unsuably slow while watching livetv. Starting livetv can take a minute or so, and every up and down key press causes the tv to lock up for a minute or so, then you get the OSD update with the next channel...
[20:40:33] high-rez: Beirdo: But the slave backend/frontend system? None of these problem at all.
[20:40:34] Beirdo: current trunk?
[20:40:37] high-rez: Yeah
[20:40:42] high-rez: One rev behind
[20:41:19] Beirdo: hmm, can you pastebin a chunk of backend log around the problem area?
[20:41:26] sphery: stuartm: http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/mythtv-fi . . . _26141.patch as a workaround until Beirdo fixes the circular dependency
[20:41:30] kenni: stuartm, knightr: that's a cool feature, I didn't even know it existed...I think it would make sense to mention it on the translation page, and then have a link there to a dedicated page with further info
[20:41:40] sphery: stuartm: not committable, though--it's a bad pathc
[20:41:46] high-rez: Beirdo: Sure. Also, while the frontend is hanging it ends up eating up a ton of CPU...
[20:41:58] stuartm: kenni: it's new for 0.24
[20:42:08] Beirdo: hmm, may need frontend logs too
[20:42:30] high-rez: Wow this is interesting... I think its frontend related
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[20:43:14] kenni: stuartm: yes, but I did somehow miss it three months ago on the commit-list :)
[20:43:33] RogerM: kenni: Think a "hint" blurb would be nice on the translation page. Otherwise it probably would go unnoticed. :/
[20:43:46] knightr: stuartm, kenni: I had seen the commit but had misunderstood its use I guess. Kenni, might be worth linking to a different page has was suggested previously though...
[20:44:27] high-rez: Beirdo: Will the frontend not start displaying until the BE is able to GetKeyframePositions ?
[20:44:41] knightr: stuartm: I've sent an email to my fellow French translatators (the ones in France)... I'll take care of the French Canadian en English US ones (which are close to the same thing anyway...).
[20:44:44] Beirdo: quite possibly, not sure
[20:45:16] knightr: stuartm: I was asking them if they could do the one for fr_FR...
[20:45:56] knightr: stuartm: I guess I could do the fr_en one too... (-;
[20:46:15] stuartm: I probably could have written a better description and made more noise on the mailing lists
[20:46:20] stuartm: knightr: great :)
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[20:48:42] stuartm: sphery: thank for the patch, I can wait for a proper fix to go in, I'm not doing any patch testing tonight
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[20:52:38] knightr: stuartm: With all the talk you guys had earlier about other languages I was tempted to do one for the iso-639 tlh language... I'm not sure about its locale though...
[20:53:53] stuartm: hehe
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[20:54:18] stuartm: I had to look that one up :)
[20:54:23] Gibby: any body?
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[20:55:40] iamlindoro: No bodies here, we're all friends
[20:55:42] stuartm: knightr: there is definately not corresponding country code in iso-3166
[20:55:54] sphery: stuartm: I had the patch here, anyway--it's what caused us to recognize the circular deps.  :) Anyway, sounds like Beirdo should have it fixed up /much/ better than ever before soon enough, anyway.
[20:56:03] iamlindoro: tlh_klngnempre
[20:56:16] ** stuartm kicks a bloody limb under the rug **
[20:57:02] knightr: )-; It should have been in iso-3166–1 I believe...
[20:57:18] knightr: (-;
[20:57:27] iamlindoro: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/shawnste/archive/2006/08/10/694848.aspx
[20:57:49] larrikin: is there a method to have a 'group' that records at an equal priority to the default, but expires differently ?
[20:58:42] Gibby: i rebooted and it is still doing the samething, when i am in the backend setup and select my tuner that i have my antenna attached to and select scan and it crashes back to the desktop
[20:58:53] knightr: ROTFL..
[20:59:03] iamlindoro: knightr: you're wanted in #mythtv
[20:59:39] knightr: Thank Robert...
[20:59:54] iamlindoro: np
[21:00:27] sphery: speaking of WhosWho on SVN wiki, should http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:MythDevelopers link to WhosWho, instead?
[21:00:38] Beirdo: Gibby: have you made a backtrace for us to peruse? What version of myth? many other questions/
[21:01:37] larrikin: ..
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[21:01:39] Gibby: Beirdo, 0.23.1, backtrace? I am tailing the mythbackend.log but it doesn't seem to say anything for it
[21:02:44] Beirdo: if it's segfaulting, we'd need a backtrace... if not, we'd need logs to be able to help without the use of a crystal ball.
[21:02:49] Beirdo: mine's in the shop
[21:02:57] sphery: stuartm: so, I stand corrected, it was committable (just got committed)... Guess it's easy enough for Beirdo to update his patch--as it's just deleting those classes that were made MPUBLIC.  :)
[21:03:18] Gibby: ok, googling backtrace
[21:03:35] sphery: Gibby: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging
[21:03:45] iamlindoro: Gibby: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging
[21:03:47] iamlindoro: shoot
[21:03:59] iamlindoro: stupid sphery macros
[21:04:09] Beirdo: aye
[21:04:16] Gibby: thanks guys.... i will get the backtrace info, anyone here using the directv.pl channel changing script? could use some debugging on that too
[21:04:18] Beirdo: sphery: good plan.
[21:04:30] sphery: Beirdo: actually, jan neg committed it
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[21:04:59] Beirdo: so he did :)
[21:05:02] sphery: seems he was fixing some symbol-visibility-gcc-version-detection issues in configure, so he needed a working build
[21:05:34] stuartm: libmythdb depends on libmythui?
[21:05:45] sphery: it does until Beirdo fixes it (likely tonight)
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[21:05:57] stuartm: because that's really screwed up :(
[21:06:09] Beirdo: it is
[21:06:09] Captain_Murdoch: no, it only did if you had lirc and/or joystick support enabled
[21:06:12] ** skd5aner loves to see all the love and attention the Windows' build has received over the last month or so **
[21:06:23] sphery: stuartm: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8863#comment:10
[21:06:27] Beirdo: tis screwy, but won't be that way much longer.
[21:06:28] skd5aner: maybe I'll give the windows build a chance after release
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[21:06:37] Captain_Murdoch: stuartm, was a mistake in my mythcontext reorg that was missed on my end because I use neither of those.
[21:06:56] stuartm: Captain_Murdoch: ah well, these things happen
[21:07:07] stuartm: so long as it wasn't intentional :)
[21:07:11] sphery: Captain_Murdoch: and because even if you did, the code wouldn't have been compiled, anyway
[21:07:15] Beirdo: and in the process of trying to unbreak the lirc/js locks, I stumbled into a real mess :)
[21:07:18] Beirdo: hehe
[21:07:57] stuartm: sphery: guess I was ignoring that ticket so I missed the stuff about dependency issues
[21:08:18] sphery: yeah, Beirdo has a patch to fix it... he just needs to do some testing before committing
[21:08:31] sphery: it's also wonderful since it removes a ton of old code because of the better design
[21:08:42] Beirdo: and a constant->enum conversion that Captain_Murdoch suggested too
[21:09:02] Captain_Murdoch: it was all part of my plan. break things I don't like until someone fixes them to work a better way.
[21:09:16] Beirdo: hehe
[21:09:20] sphery: Captain_Murdoch: heh, we should do that more often
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[21:09:35] Beirdo: well, we compile under Windows now...  :)
[21:10:21] larrikin: is there a way to have a program record at one priority but have a different priority for expiry ?
[21:11:27] sphery: larrikin: the expiry policy isn't enough--adding priority points for Watched recordings or age of recordings?
[21:12:22] sphery: oh, the watched prioirty boost is only in trunk, it seems (not available until 0.24 is released)
[21:12:54] larrikin: well, I want to have a schedule record with equal priority to the default, but want the recorded program to expire sooner, like for news-related programs
[21:13:22] larrikin: I don't want to rely on the 'watched' status
[21:13:33] sphery: larrikin: heh, one option is to record News into the Live TV recorded group--then it's just deleted after X days (by default 1 day)
[21:13:55] larrikin: yeah, that's too soon
[21:14:10] sphery: actually, there's a Watched boost in 0.23-fixes...
[21:14:13] larrikin: I don't want them to have live-tv priority
[21:14:49] sphery: they won't be Live TV priority for recording, though--they'll just be deleted one day after recording
[21:15:34] sphery: the watched boost basically says "expire watched shows first, with other expire priority as secondary/tertiary sort, then expire unwatched, with other expire priority..."
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[21:16:35] sphery: but other than those factors, we don't have any for affecting expire order
[21:17:47] sphery: there's also the option of deleting (or, technically, you could record) to Deleted recording group, then they will be expired after Live TV recordings and before un-Deleted Watched recordings
[21:18:36] larrikin: okay, n/m thanks.. I was under the impression I had watched programs expiring sooner even under 0.22
[21:19:12] sphery: it may be in 0.22, also
[21:19:29] sphery: I just checked to make sure it's in 0.23, but didn't check older versions
[21:20:51] Gibby: Anyone familiar with jpnevulator?
[21:21:59] stuartm: the option to expire watched recordings before unwatched recordings has been in there since 0.20 or 0.21, whenever I first added the watched flag stuff
[21:22:43] sphery: yeah, I couldn't remember when it went in
[21:23:03] larrikin: I'd suggest having making recording priorites into a more generic 'scheduling priority' which has a pair of numbers (record/storage) which by default are linked/equal, but can be made unique
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[21:24:23] sphery: larrikin: I think you can do what you want differently... Basically just set up a recording rule at whatever priority you want to use for /expiration/... Then, use Custom Priority to make that rule get the priority you want for recording.
[21:24:24] stuartm: IMHO it's already complicated enough and further complicating it for the sake of a minority who want to do something unusual just makes MythTV that much harder for new users
[21:24:46] Gibby: anyone with mfh3?
[21:24:56] sphery: larrikin: TTBOMK, that will give you the behavior you want, and it doesn't make things complex for the other 99.999999999% of users who don't need differing recording/expiry priorities.
[21:25:20] sphery: larrikin: Custom Priority in frontend settings, Utilities/Setup|Setup|TV Settings|<something about priority>
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[21:26:46] stuartm: if it was me, I'd drop the recording priority by 1 point, and/or use max-episodes for recording something like news
[21:27:26] sphery: yeah, max episodes, delete old and record new, would work
[21:27:28] sphery: for most users
[21:28:24] stuartm: I use max-ep, delete old for several current affairs type schedules
[21:28:54] stuartm: keeping at most one or two recordings at a time
[21:29:23] larrikin: my idea to have the two values linked/equal would mean there would be zero impact for new users, I guess you didn't see that
[21:29:26] stuartm: if I've not watched it after two days (or weeks), then I'm not going to find the time to watch it at all
[21:30:17] sphery: larrikin: offering a choice to a user does impact users
[21:30:18] kormoc: larrikin, we're attempting to lower the learning curve and you have a way to have it do what you want already
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[21:30:33] sphery: larrikin: but see what I said about custom priority--I'm pretty sure you can get what you want that way
[21:31:27] larrikin: I'll give it a try
[21:32:13] sphery: larrikin: and if it works for you, feel free to write up a little howto on the wiki
[21:32:19] skd5aner: sphery: #8491, was that a regression post release of .23? were commfree channels properly not scanned in .23 and simply regressed in trunk do the PI refactor?
[21:32:46] sphery: skd5aner: yeah, broken during development after 0.23, but fixed again before 0.24
[21:33:10] sphery: so from a user standpoint, "never happened" :)
[21:33:19] skd5aner: k – excluding it from changelog then
[21:33:21] skd5aner: thanks
[21:33:44] skd5aner: yea, sometimes it's difficult to identify regressions in trunk with some of these changesets so I'm assuming a few might sneak into the changelog
[21:34:33] sphery: yeah, it's not a big deal if you put it on there
[21:34:35] sphery: you're already doing far more work on this than anyone has a right to expect of you
[21:35:03] sphery: and if it's really that important to a dev that something be worded one way or not appear or appear, that dev can edit the wiki page himself :)
[21:35:07] skd5aner: heh – thanks :)
[21:35:27] sphery: (and, btw, thanks for all the effort you're putting into doing the change logs for us)
[21:36:40] Beirdo: it is a HUGE thing.
[21:37:35] Gibby: so i am now fed up with MFH3, so I now I have to pick the lesser of the 2 evils, DirectTV or Dish... Votes? I am thinking dish since I can get 1STB that has 2 tuners in it
[21:39:06] sphery: kenni: are you logged in to Trac?
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[21:40:25] Gumby: hi all. is it a common thing that livetv stutters for a second on the hour each and every hour? trying to figure out what is causing it
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[21:41:25] skd5aner: iamlindoro: r26149... does this mean that artwork needs to be on SGs now?
[21:41:54] skd5aner: I'm not sure I'm interpreting the change correctly based on the ticket
[21:42:44] iamlindoro: skd5aner: no, it's not worth even putting in the changelog, it only pertains to when metadata is reset
[21:42:59] skd5aner: 10–4
[21:43:28] sphery: yeah, Trac-diff kind of cut off the "if (metadata)" that makes it easier to see what's happening
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[22:18:00] curtlee: Is there a way to force mythbackend to only use localhost 127.0.0.1?
[22:18:49] kormoc: set the mbe ip to 127.0.0.1
[22:19:13] curtlee: mbe?
[22:19:25] kormoc: Master Back End
[22:19:48] curtlee: with mythtv-setup?
[22:19:59] kormoc: yes
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[22:21:08] curtlee: I've done that, but ports 6543/tcp and 6547/tcp on eth0 are still being opened
[22:24:34] Gibby is now known as Gibby_class
[22:26:52] curtlee: any ideas?
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[22:30:19] sphery: curtlee: no way to bind only to a single interface
[22:30:44] sphery: curtlee: so use your firewall to block what you don't want
[22:31:21] curtlee: ok, sphery
[22:31:44] curtlee: That is what I wanted to know.
[22:31:48] curtlee: Thank you
[22:34:47] Gibby_class: here is my backtrace for my issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/632756
[22:34:56] Gibby_class: I am off to class, will check back in 4 hours
[22:46:43] sphery: So do these people who say "I can't upgrade MythTV because there are too many frontends" /really/ seriously plan to run MythTV 0.21 forever?
[22:46:57] high-rez: Yes
[22:47:17] sphery: or is that just their excuse when they're using the patches that allow them to steal satellite TV (which, TTBOMK, haven't been updated past 0.21)
[22:47:46] sphery: Anyway, if they want to run 0.21-fixes forever, more power to them... Just wish they wouldn't expect to still get support for that version.
[22:48:14] high-rez: I'm pretty sure none of them are stealing tv these days – thats all buttoned up.
[22:48:49] Beirdo: what the...
[22:49:04] high-rez: what the what?
[22:49:09] Beirdo: I guess he wants mythbuntu people fo fix it
[22:49:11] sphery: high-rez: heh, that's good
[22:49:31] sphery: hope it stays that way for a while
[22:49:45] high-rez: sphery: So I doubt its patches/etc, but rather people just dont want to upgrade.
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[22:50:07] sphery: Beirdo: you mean his ticket? I couldn't figure out what was going on... we really need a mythtv-setup log, too
[22:50:09] high-rez: I think 0.21 and pre days, people were so happy to have something work so well, they're afraid – not knowing how much improved its become...
[22:50:26] sphery: yeah, I think fear is the #1 reason people don't upgrade
[22:50:31] Beirdo: well, he put it on launchpad, and not a normal backtrace
[22:51:05] sphery: this guy's description, though, makes it sound like he's using a massively-distributed system with many families using a single MythTV system
[22:51:38] sphery: in which case, /he/ decided to make himself the cable company for them, so he can take the money he's earning and figure out a way to upgrade them to something supportable
[22:51:43] high-rez: Thats pretty neat, really.  :)
[22:51:59] sphery: Beirdo: yeah, that's how launchpad does backtraces... they "retrace" the core file, so it's a mess
[22:52:24] high-rez: Is he offering tripple play with asterisk for telephone service and a nice nat'd internet connection?
[22:52:24] sphery: high-rez: neat as long as it's legal
[22:52:26] sphery: :)
[22:52:27] Beirdo: even then... gdb backtraces are more useful
[22:52:47] larrikin: does anyone happen to know if there is a bug against 0.23.* open or closed about problems with the backend responsiveness? I have a problem in 0.23.0 / 0.23.1 where the (nearest symptom) control port stops responding (and as a consequence the frontend also stops responding) during playback (problem not seen prior to 0.23)
[22:53:44] sphery: larrikin: you're not using monit/nagios/... to poll the mythbackend HTTP status port, are you?
[22:54:25] larrikin: if I make a socket open/close a couple of times (netcat) it can come back sooner ... no not using monit/nagios or anything else .. I think its just the frontend and occasionally mythweb that uses it ?
[22:54:46] sphery: (whether or not you are,) it may be socket issues, which can be caused when the HTTP server is stressed... It could be stressed from the preview generator or other usage
[22:55:02] sphery: if you're polling the backend status port, though, that's almost a sure-fire recipe for disaster
[22:55:37] Beirdo: another thing to fix long-term, eh?
[22:55:45] larrikin: well, I have a really standard install, and 0.22 and prior never did this
[22:55:52] sphery: and if it's not related to the HTTP server, some system configs cause socket errors on some systems
[22:56:04] larrikin: okay
[22:56:19] sphery: it used to be nearly universal... now the socket errors are much less common, but unfortunately, no one has found a fix for them
[22:56:31] sphery: (proper fix requires fixing the MythTV socket handling code)
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[23:00:44] Beirdo: sphery: I do see an issue from his backtrace though
[23:01:04] Beirdo: ChannelBase::IsInputAvailable -> TVReac::IsBusy..
[23:01:12] sphery: Beirdo: cool... I got bored looking before getting anywhere useful
[23:01:13] Beirdo: this = NULL
[23:01:38] Beirdo: codewise it seems to be at line 595 in channelbase.cpp
[23:01:52] Beirdo: m_pParent seems to be NULL?
[23:02:14] sphery: Beirdo: btw, you're using ThreadStacktrace.txt right?
[23:02:17] Beirdo: don't ask me how
[23:02:36] Beirdo: just lookin at the apport-crash
[23:02:36] sphery: it looks like his channel config is busted, so I wouldn't be surprised
[23:02:54] Beirdo: oh, that's even better :)
[23:03:17] sphery: yeah, took me a while to figure out why you thought it was so different from gdb backtrace
[23:03:21] sphery: it's just missing some stuff
[23:03:47] Beirdo: #3 in that ThreadStacktrace.txt
[23:04:16] sphery: So, TVRec is NULL?
[23:04:46] Beirdo: yeah, the m_pParent->IsBusy(&info)... m_pParent = NULL
[23:04:52] Beirdo: which is of type TVRec
[23:05:15] Beirdo: why that is? dunno
[23:05:16] Beirdo: heh
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[23:06:41] Beirdo: so either something ate it... or the constructor was handed NULL
[23:07:19] sphery: yeah, I think he just found a segfault that's caused by bad config (i.e. his logs show he's configuring a card as an MPEG encoder when it's not)
[23:07:41] Beirdo: quite likely so
[23:07:56] sphery: He needs to fix that for things to work, but would be nice to fix the segfault even when configuration is so busted
[23:08:53] sphery: the MySQL server has gone away is also bad
[23:09:41] sphery: mythbuntu should really put some marks between the log outputs
[23:10:00] sphery: it's a pain to find anything when the log has 59 different runs in it
[23:10:46] sphery: also, capture card isn't properly configured because of the lack of an external channel change script with composite or s-video input
[23:11:11] Beirdo: oooh
[23:11:15] Beirdo: thanks for the idea
[23:11:22] Beirdo: I should put markers into MY logs
[23:11:23] Beirdo: hehe
[23:12:08] sphery: heh
[23:13:19] high-rez: Any of you guys fimiliar with running myth on a beagleboard? I'd like to put my beagleboard to use as a frontend so I can come back here and complain abou performance :)
[23:13:41] Beirdo: !salmon high-rez
[23:13:41] ** MythLogBot plants a salmon upside the head of high-rez on behalf of Beirdo... **
[23:14:08] high-rez: Beirdo: I'm half serious. I have a beagleboard sitting around – and I just read someone made theirs work as a FE :)
[23:14:10] tgm4883: sphery, context?
[23:14:16] tgm4883: are you talking about the log grabber?
[23:14:25] sphery: yeah
[23:14:34] tgm4883: you have a link?
[23:14:41] high-rez: beirdo: Admit it, an FE consuming 5 watts max would be friggin awesome.  :)
[23:14:47] Beirdo: meh
[23:14:58] Beirdo: I'll settle for a UPnP device if I want that
[23:15:06] sphery: tgm4883: was looking at the logs on https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/632756
[23:15:31] Beirdo: or my Atom box which is 7W or some crap before I added the hard drive... need to get VAAPI more functional though
[23:15:45] high-rez: Beirdo: Good point. Looks liek there's a UPnP client for it...
[23:15:58] tgm4883: sphery, ok, so you are talking about marks inside the backend log then?
[23:16:22] tgm4883: sorry, just not sure I follow what you want
[23:16:27] sphery: would be nice to have some markers... it's possible to find things like mythbackend version: branches/release-0-23-fixes [26057] www.mythtv.org to know when a new run starts, but it's also easy to miss those starts when reading through
[23:16:29] tgm4883: i'd be glad to look into doing it though
[23:16:56] sphery: basically, some nice visual distinction between runs would be helpful
[23:17:03] tgm4883: ah I see
[23:17:07] high-rez: Hmm. XBMC on beagle
[23:17:12] kormoc: sphery, we could add them on our side as well
[23:17:15] Beirdo: we could just make the backend do the markers
[23:17:15] tgm4883: so something that shows when the backend is getting started
[23:17:19] sphery: we could do it in mythbackend adn mythfrontend, I suppose
[23:17:29] sphery: yeah
[23:17:36] tgm4883: yea I don't think we do a whole lot to the logs there
[23:17:38] Beirdo: and likely a better place to do it if we want logs to look similar :)
[23:17:56] tgm4883: yea, I don't want to push work onto you guys, but that does seem like an upstream thing
[23:18:11] tgm4883: unless I just don't understand how we have logging set up downstream and there is a way to do it
[23:18:27] kormoc: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Backend startaroo! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[23:18:33] sphery: yeah
[23:18:40] sphery: though whitespace would make reading easier
[23:18:44] sphery: more visually distinct
[23:18:50] Beirdo: or both
[23:18:55] tgm4883:
[23:18:55] Beirdo: easy to search for too
[23:18:57] tgm4883: <kormoc> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Backend startaroo! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[23:18:59] tgm4883:
[23:19:01] Beirdo: hehe
[23:19:01] tgm4883: like that
[23:19:10] Beirdo: make sure the <kormoc> stays
[23:19:14] Beirdo: heh
[23:19:14] tgm4883: yea
[23:19:19] tgm4883: and the <Beirdo> easy to search for too
[23:22:27] Twiggy2cents (Twiggy2cents!~darren@70-41-33-247.cust.wildblue.net) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:22:35] Beirdo: how nice. no more languishing translations
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