| Thursday, September 2nd, 2010, 00:00 UTC | ||
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| [00:25:51] | Maliuta: | anyone know what in the logitech harmony DB can be used with myth and an ehome ir receiver? |
| [00:26:55] | wagnerrp: | 'ehome' ir receivers are usually for MCE remotes? |
| [00:27:08] | wagnerrp: | use the microsoft remote profile in the database |
| [00:29:24] | Maliuta: | tried that, the codes being received don't match with any of the lirc confs I have seen |
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| [00:54:10] | bunder: | what's the command that goes through all your files and sees if they have a recordings db entry? |
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| [01:03:23] | bunder: | i found it, nevermind |
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| [01:29:20] | dardack: | quick question, is the automatically run mythfilldatabase no longer in the general menu under setup? cause i can not find it |
| [01:29:28] | Gumby: | hi all. has anyone ever used mrgaldalf's mythtv_scanner for dvb? I'm trying it out and it is finding all the channels and data however when it is finished it tells me there is nothing to import. I'd check on dvbn however the site seems down so I thought I might ask here |
| [01:29:35] | [R]: | dardack: its in mythtv-setup |
| [01:29:39] | dardack: | oh |
| [01:29:40] | dardack: | ty |
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| [01:42:39] | [R]: | whats the deal with these people saying --dd-grab-all is taking a long tiem? it took less than 4 minutes for me... including the d/l |
| [01:43:05] | iamlindoro: | not to mention they are not comparing apples to apples |
| [01:43:15] | iamlindoro: | can only really compare --dd-grab-all to --refresh-all |
| [01:43:30] | [R]: | but how i thought i saw one guy say it took him 20 minutes? |
| [01:44:04] | [R]: | although to be fair... i have 76 channels |
| [01:44:36] | iamlindoro: | It's just completely unoptimized, as sphery warned-- so anyone complaining about time is ignoring the big fat warning they got at the top of the thread |
| [01:44:55] | iamlindoro: | There is probably huge room for improvement... but it'll take some time |
| [01:45:23] | [R]: | i would assume refresh-all would take longer because of all the new connections it has to make |
| [01:46:20] | sphery: | right, and that also puts a ton of strain on TMS's servers |
| [01:46:41] | sphery: | but the point is both --refresh-all --refresh-today and --dd-grab-all replace all 14 days |
| [01:46:56] | sphery: | so if you compare --dd-grab-all to default, you're comparing 14 days to 2 days |
| [01:47:36] | [R]: | ok well i'm running with --refresh-all |
| [01:47:47] | sphery: | don't do that |
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| [01:47:52] | [R]: | lol |
| [01:47:53] | sphery: | it's terrible on the DD servers |
| [01:47:57] | sphery: | heh |
| [01:48:03] | sphery: | you got me |
| [01:48:06] | [R]: | just for this comparison to see why everyone is on crack |
| [01:48:13] | [R]: | it seems like its taking a lot longer than dd-grab-all did |
| [01:48:17] | sphery: | yeah, it will |
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| [01:59:00] | piper69: | anyone tried netflex with mythtv |
| [01:59:05] | piper69: | :) |
| [01:59:14] | wagnerrp: | cant be done over here either |
| [01:59:35] | piper69: | hahahahahah i was waitting for you to comment :) wagnerrp |
| [02:00:28] | wagnerrp: | netflix is done through silverlight |
| [02:00:41] | piper69: | i mean why? not questioning you , but if they can stream to regular desk top why not mythtv |
| [02:00:47] | wagnerrp: | and specifically requires the DRM components in silverlight that are not available in moonlight on linux |
| [02:00:50] | sphery: | and you're saying moonlight isn't up to snuff... |
| [02:00:51] | sphery: | :) |
| [02:01:04] | sphery: | Oh, yeah, moonlight /can't/ implement the silverlight DRM stuff |
| [02:01:18] | wagnerrp: | there are three ways you could get mythtv to access netflix |
| [02:01:31] | wagnerrp: | get microsoft to release a player like adobe has with flash |
| [02:01:31] | piper69: | shoot there is silverlight for ubuntu |
| [02:01:43] | sphery: | silverlight for ubuntu is likely moonlight |
| [02:01:51] | [R]: | s/likely// |
| [02:02:03] | wagnerrp: | get microsoft to open up their drm spec so it can be implemented in moonlight for linux (which cannot be done because then the DRM could be bypassed by anyone) |
| [02:02:38] | wagnerrp: | or get netflix to build in specific access into their systems for mythtv (which again cannot be done as then the DRM could be bypassed by anyone) |
| [02:02:49] | sphery: | http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight/Securit . . . s_Management |
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| [02:03:00] | wagnerrp: | DRM cannot be implemented by any open source project |
| [02:03:14] | [R]: | theoretically m$ could provide a binary that implements it |
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| [02:03:23] | [R]: | but that ain't gonna happen |
| [02:03:29] | sphery: | or get a Roku player or Wii or XBox 360 or <whatever player> and hook it up to an analog encoder (PVR-150/HD-PVR) |
| [02:03:41] | sphery: | though that's almost certainly a violation of ToS |
| [02:03:58] | sphery: | or get a PlayOn server running Windows to stream it to you |
| [02:04:07] | sphery: | though that's almost certainly a violation of ToS |
| [02:04:20] | sphery: | meaning that wagnerrp's 3 ways are the only way to get it to MythTV |
| [02:04:29] | sphery: | so, just skip MythTV and turn on your Wii |
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| [02:04:37] | [R]: | weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
| [02:04:43] | wagnerrp: | not to mention mythtv does not have a upnp client to use with playon anyway |
| [02:05:31] | sphery: | yeah, guess that's more of a "accessible through a menu item in MythTV" |
| [02:05:45] | sphery: | though do you have to go to the windows box to start the playback? |
| [02:05:55] | sphery: | I /really/ wish NetFlix would sue PlayOn out of existence |
| [02:06:00] | wagnerrp: | i dont think so |
| [02:06:17] | wagnerrp: | i think it scrapes the site, and provides a list of stuff that it encodes on-demand |
| [02:06:20] | sphery: | ah, so you request it like selecting recordings with upnp |
| [02:06:27] | sphery: | I see |
| [02:07:01] | wagnerrp: | and supposedly with a high end and vt-d capable processor, you can get enough performance out of a VM to run it |
| [02:08:06] | [R]: | i coudln't make it work on a core 2 duo 2.1ghz |
| [02:08:10] | [R]: | in a VM |
| [02:08:12] | sphery: | I still don't see the attraction |
| [02:08:37] | iamlindoro: | Productive outlet for insanity |
| [02:08:45] | wagnerrp: | ive never seen the quality of it, so i couldnt comment |
| [02:08:53] | sphery: | just hit Input on the remote and watch with your Wii/Roku/XB360/PS3/DVD player/BluRay player/TV with built in NetFlix support/... |
| [02:08:57] | [R]: | the upnp browsing seemed VERY slow |
| [02:09:14] | [R]: | althoug that mgith have had to do with the way i was accessing it with djmount |
| [02:09:22] | sphery: | Oh, yeah, NetFlix streaming isn't the part I don't like |
| [02:09:26] | sphery: | it's the PlayOn garbage |
| [02:10:01] | sphery: | the netflix streaming is ok... didn't seem dvd quality to me, but it's good enough |
| [02:10:07] | piper69: | yeah am getting ready to buy a house, we r at escrow now. so i shutdown my TV cable and trying to save as much as i can :) |
| [02:10:17] | Beirdo: | i like having netflix on the tv itself :) |
| [02:10:25] | sphery: | piper69: OTA ftw! |
| [02:10:36] | sphery: | Beirdo: yeah, that's ideal |
| [02:10:36] | piper69: | stw ? |
| [02:10:41] | piper69: | ftw? |
| [02:10:51] | sphery: | piper69: Over The Air (for the win!) |
| [02:11:29] | [R]: | that's weird... ups claims i signed for mhy package |
| [02:11:31] | [R]: | but i totally idn't |
| [02:11:36] | piper69: | sphery: don't ve an antenna |
| [02:11:41] | [R]: | the guy was like you ron, heres your package |
| [02:12:05] | sphery: | [R]: if you've ever signed one of those "leave it on my doorstep" forms, you've signed for every future package shipped to you |
| [02:12:22] | [R]: | sphery: i didnt... cuz when i got the delivery like last week or two weeks ago... i had to sign for it |
| [02:13:32] | sphery: | piper69: yeah, and depending on where/how far you're moving, you may not be able to make the same antenna work now and in the new house |
| [02:13:57] | sphery: | but the whole idea of not paying $30 – $120/mo for cable TV is well worth consideration, IMHO |
| [02:14:05] | Beirdo: | if you are in a good signal area... use a coat hanger |
| [02:14:21] | Beirdo: | metal one, obviously :) |
| [02:14:21] | sphery: | I just have an antenna for all the network broadcasts and buy DVDs of the cable shows I want to watch |
| [02:14:46] | sphery: | Beirdo: is that why my plastic coat hanger antenna wasn't working? |
| [02:14:46] | Beirdo: | yeah, but yer odd :) |
| [02:14:46] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [02:14:56] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [02:14:57] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [02:15:00] | sphery: | what a waste--I even bought the extra thick one thinking it would work better |
| [02:15:23] | [R]: | sphery: it probably wasn't labeled as an HDTV antenna! |
| [02:15:30] | sphery: | [R]: ah, yeah... |
| [02:16:26] | sphery: | that and the whole, "If you are watching this show through an antenna, you need to take action to continue watching our great programming after <insert DTV change-over date-du-jour>" messages drove me crazy |
| [02:16:45] | sphery: | I mean, really, they had that message on my OTA digital signal that I was watching |
| [02:17:15] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [02:17:29] | piper69: | sphery: yeah i can't wait to try the house diber optic internet i actully will ne my own NIU hehehehe |
| [02:17:38] | piper69: | 12Mbps speed |
| [02:17:42] | sphery: | So if I can see it, I'm good... If the cable company takes that signal and sends it to an STB, those guys are good. If they re-broadcast it as NTSC, those guys are good. |
| [02:18:02] | sphery: | so they should have just stick it /only/ on the NTSC broadcast OTA signal |
| [02:18:18] | sphery: | piper69: cool... AT&T Uverse? |
| [02:18:39] | piper69: | surewest |
| [02:18:48] | sphery: | oh cool |
| [02:19:43] | sphery: | I have people within a mile of my house who have AT&T Uverse at 12Mbps, and it's not available here. (And, really, it was just this year that AT&T finally admitted my address exists--even though my house has been here for 10yrs.) |
| [02:19:55] | piper69: | sphery what antenna u use |
| [02:19:56] | sphery: | before their web site said, "That address does not exist." |
| [02:20:06] | sphery: | I have a Terk TV38 in the attic |
| [02:20:23] | sphery: | it's overkill, but before the switchover, the stations were broadcasting at lower power |
| [02:20:28] | Beirdo: | you shoulda sent them a message saying "fine, then don't send me bills" |
| [02:20:41] | sphery: | and I needed it (it's a "pink" antenna and abuot half of my channels were pink when I got it) |
| [02:20:42] | tgm4883: | Does VCT stand for Virtual Channel Table when discussed in sctescan? |
| [02:20:56] | sphery: | tgm4883: sounds right to me |
| [02:22:45] | tgm4883: | sphery, ok. Trying to figure mine out as I got a new RNG110 box. Ran the script and matching it to the table on the wiki it says i'm either in Iowa or california |
| [02:22:50] | tgm4883: | which I am in Oregon |
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| [02:23:26] | sphery: | are you certain that's where you are? |
| [02:23:37] | Beirdo: | California.. Oregon... close enough.. hehe |
| [02:23:58] | sphery: | is it possible that they could have the same ID used elsewhere? |
| [02:24:17] | Beirdo: | yeah, I'd think so |
| [02:24:30] | iamlindoro: | yes, VCT's are not unique |
| [02:24:37] | sphery: | yeah, with 4-digit values, I'd think they'd have to repeat |
| [02:24:47] | iamlindoro: | which is why the table contains city and state |
| [02:25:13] | sphery: | so the table is more for "I live in this area but I don't have a DTA, so I can try these others and see if they work"? |
| [02:25:14] | Beirdo: | and I think the table may be able to be contributed to if you find a new mapping? |
| [02:25:41] | iamlindoro: | sphery, yes |
| [02:25:56] | ** iamlindoro started the table ** | |
| [02:26:17] | sphery: | cool |
| [02:26:32] | Beirdo: | nice |
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| [02:37:52] | harrisonk: | Anyone here have a good recomndation for a digital/analog tv tuner? |
| [02:38:08] | wagnerrp: | PCI, PCIe, or USB? |
| [02:40:45] | harrisonk: | usb please |
| [02:40:55] | wagnerrp: | HVR-1950 |
| [02:41:04] | harrisonk: | PCI would work but not PCIe |
| [02:41:23] | wagnerrp: | for PCI, HVR-1600 |
| [02:41:46] | harrisonk: | I will have a look at those, thanks |
| [02:42:07] | wagnerrp: | digital tuners are widely available |
| [02:42:13] | wagnerrp: | but for analog, you want an mpeg encoder |
| [02:42:31] | wagnerrp: | which means a very limited set of tuners |
| [02:43:09] | harrisonk: | I see |
| [02:43:42] | harrisonk: | I live in Canada where we will convert to digital in 2011 like the US |
| [02:43:57] | harrisonk: | But I would like both |
| [02:44:20] | wagnerrp: | you mean a digital cutoff? |
| [02:45:05] | wagnerrp: | the cutoff for canada is scheduled for one year from yesterday |
| [02:45:20] | wagnerrp: | chances are that most large stations have already made the transition |
| [02:45:46] | harrisonk: | Wow, now that you mention it your right! |
| [02:45:55] | wagnerrp: | you would probably be perfectly fine with just a digital tuner |
| [02:46:31] | harrisonk: | What about just digital for around 30.00 dollars (USD or CAD are fine) |
| [02:46:50] | wagnerrp: | $30 is pretty cheap for a new retail tuner |
| [02:46:51] | kormoc: | Are you shooting for all your cable channels? |
| [02:47:06] | wagnerrp: | you just want broadcast, right? |
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| [02:49:00] | harrisonk: | Just B-cast |
| [02:49:18] | wagnerrp: | !url tuners |
| [02:49:18] | MythLogBot: | tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information |
| [02:49:23] | harrisonk: | thanks |
| [02:49:25] | wagnerrp: | anything on that list will work |
| [02:49:32] | wagnerrp: | youre looking for ATSC |
| [02:49:50] | wagnerrp: | retail units usually start for $40–50 |
| [02:49:59] | wagnerrp: | USB units are going to be higher |
| [02:50:15] | harrisonk: | I did my research it's just the one I found on newegg is not compatial |
| [02:50:33] | wagnerrp: | which one? |
| [02:50:45] | wagnerrp: | you mean theres no linux drivers? |
| [02:51:19] | harrisonk: | its a kworld one, just a moment |
| [02:51:29] | wagnerrp: | kworld ones should work |
| [02:52:20] | harrisonk: | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815260023 |
| [02:52:49] | wagnerrp: | oh, dont know about those |
| [02:52:55] | harrisonk: | I looked on the mythtv wiki and they said it wasn't suported |
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| [02:53:20] | wagnerrp: | the linuxtv wiki is the official resource |
| [02:54:07] | harrisonk: | the wiki said that there might be a more up-to-date list there |
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| [03:11:08] | Gumby: | hi all. has anyone ever used mrgaldalf's mythtv_scanner for dvb? I'm trying it out and it is finding all the channels and data however when it is finished it tells me there is nothing to import. I'd check on dvbn however the site seems down so I thought I might ask here |
| [03:11:29] | wagnerrp: | eh |
| [03:11:38] | Gumby: | its a long shot |
| [03:11:39] | Gumby: | lol |
| [03:11:41] | Gumby: | but worth a try |
| [03:11:53] | iamlindoro: | That scanner is *only* for purposes of scanning Dish network IIRC |
| [03:11:58] | iamlindoro: | meaning it's not welcome talk here |
| [03:12:30] | Gumby: | not sure if that is its "only" purpose or not. but ok |
| [03:12:31] | iamlindoro: | We only support Myth's scanner |
| [03:12:46] | Gumby: | ok, I was just hoping someone might know what I was talking about. Thank you |
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| [04:51:00] | Beirdo: | OK, some dingleberries upstairs (it seems) just bought themselves a subwoofer |
| [04:51:27] | [R]: | awesome |
| [04:51:40] | Beirdo: | rumble rumble boom boom |
| [04:51:50] | Beirdo: | two can play that game |
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| [04:57:24] | Beirdo: | beautiful |
| [04:57:36] | Beirdo: | I install upnp-inspector... it doesn't even start |
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| [04:57:49] | Beirdo: | python piece of crap |
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| [05:00:00] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: do you use coherence to do UPnP in python? |
| [05:00:12] | wagnerrp: | nope, a bit of custom code |
| [05:00:16] | Beirdo: | k |
| [05:00:28] | Beirdo: | it's giving me issues |
| [05:00:30] | wagnerrp: | all i do is a basic search |
| [05:00:35] | wagnerrp: | nothing intensive |
| [05:00:47] | Beirdo: | for upnp-inspector, it uses coherence |
| [05:00:49] | Beirdo: | and.... |
| [05:00:54] | wagnerrp: | i looked at coherence, but it seemed more designed for an application |
| [05:00:57] | wagnerrp: | not for an API |
| [05:01:02] | Beirdo: | ImportError: No module named log |
| [05:01:06] | Beirdo: | thanks |
| [05:01:15] | Beirdo: | from coherence.extern.log import log as externlog |
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| [05:02:34] | Beirdo: | I was hoping it might be a useful tool |
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| [05:04:32] | Beirdo: | but turns out to just be a tool. |
| [05:04:41] | wagnerrp: | ur a tool |
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| [05:05:32] | wagnerrp: | 'tool' is such an underutilized insult |
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| [05:06:01] | Beirdo: | isn't it though? |
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| [05:14:12] | Beirdo: | this is beyond my limited caring tonight |
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| [05:54:05] | mynameisdeleted: | hi |
| [05:54:11] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [05:54:20] | wagnerrp: | mythtv supports recording off a STB over firewire |
| [05:54:36] | mynameisdeleted: | when I view it says all tuners busy no matter what |
| [05:54:55] | mynameisdeleted: | I use generic cable box model |
| [05:55:17] | mynameisdeleted: | its a motorola qip-6416–2 |
| [05:55:30] | mynameisdeleted: | is that like one of the DCH boxes? |
| [05:55:41] | wagnerrp: | have you actually added the tuner in mythtv-setup? |
| [05:55:43] | mynameisdeleted: | or more like dcx or dct? |
| [05:55:45] | mynameisdeleted: | yes |
| [05:55:49] | mynameisdeleted: | and using generic it doesnt work |
| [05:56:20] | mynameisdeleted: | maybe mythtv for mac is bugged and I shoudl hook up to a linux box? |
| [05:56:34] | wagnerrp: | im fairly certain firewire capture only works on linux |
| [05:56:54] | mynameisdeleted: | ok |
| [05:57:43] | mynameisdeleted: | it did absolutely set up the firewire device |
| [05:58:13] | mynameisdeleted: | and detect it when I start the backend |
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| [06:09:07] | mynameisdeleted: | will there be any problems using a firewire settop box as a tuner in linux? |
| [06:09:29] | mynameisdeleted: | using default ubuntu setup and adding 1 card as a capture source using myhttv setup on a box that can use a real tuner already |
| [06:09:48] | wagnerrp: | as long as its a supported box, there shouldnt be |
| [06:10:06] | wagnerrp: | ive never used firewire, i have no experience with it |
| [06:10:55] | mynameisdeleted: | so motorola qip-6416 |
| [06:11:05] | [R]: | mynameisdeleted: the problems aren't gonna be with linux... it'll be with your cable company sucking and encrypting evreyhitng |
| [06:11:16] | mynameisdeleted: | workw with the apple firewire development kit no problem as a generic set top box |
| [06:11:19] | wagnerrp: | in this case, verizon fios |
| [06:11:20] | mynameisdeleted: | and vlc |
| [06:11:47] | mynameisdeleted: | its the only way I can watch encrypted channels on a mac/linux box actually |
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| [06:12:01] | wagnerrp: | sorta |
| [06:12:15] | wagnerrp: | you can watch encrypted channels, but only those marked copy-freely |
| [06:12:23] | wagnerrp: | anything marked with copy protection |
| [06:12:39] | wagnerrp: | the cable box will only make available to a device which can perform the 5c handshake and encruption |
| [06:12:41] | mynameisdeleted: | but I can get discovery and science channelt hat way |
| [06:12:50] | wagnerrp: | see http://mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable |
| [06:12:57] | mynameisdeleted: | I guess this is not a place to discuss decryptors |
| [06:13:14] | wagnerrp: | there is no discussion, they do not exist |
| [06:16:42] | Beirdo: | something along those lines :) |
| [06:16:52] | Beirdo: | nothing to see here, move along! |
| [06:16:57] | [R]: | lol |
| [06:17:25] | wagnerrp: | no, there was some project a couple years back set up by a crypto professor at some tech school |
| [06:17:40] | wagnerrp: | successfully broke 5c through a brute force computer cluster |
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| [06:17:53] | wagnerrp: | but they got shut down right quick with lawsuits |
| [06:17:56] | [R]: | couple years ago... means i could probably crack it with an ipod or something now adays |
| [06:17:57] | [R]: | haha |
| [06:18:23] | Beirdo: | I had a prof who was a crypto genius. |
| [06:18:46] | Beirdo: | and had a fro as an undergrad at our university in the 70s... and he's white |
| [06:18:49] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [06:19:01] | [R]: | lots of white people have fros |
| [06:19:04] | wagnerrp: | did he paint? |
| [06:19:09] | [R]: | HAHA |
| [06:19:28] | ** Beirdo throws things at his mythbox ** | |
| [06:19:41] | Beirdo: | stop timing out for no reason during playback! |
| [06:19:43] | [R]: | bob ross died in 95... i guess it's been enough time that jokes are ok |
| [06:20:08] | Beirdo: | http://www.ece.uwaterloo.ca/People/faculty/agnew.html |
| [06:20:14] | wagnerrp: | i joke out of awe |
| [06:20:21] | Beirdo: | heh, he still kinda has a fro |
| [06:20:29] | [R]: | oh ffs |
| [06:20:39] | [R]: | i keep forgetting i need to figurte out what kind of degree i'm going to gett |
| [06:20:42] | [R]: | anyone know any good ones? |
| [06:20:45] | [R]: | Masters... |
| [06:20:46] | wagnerrp: | who else can slap some paint on canvas with a trawl, and suddenly its a beautiful painting |
| [06:21:57] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [06:22:04] | Beirdo: | I *HATED* his exams |
| [06:22:37] | Beirdo: | I had him as a prof 3 times... his average exam was about 25 pages... of questions |
| [06:23:04] | Beirdo: | and this is an engineering degree, no true/false or multiple guess |
| [06:23:35] | [R]: | hrm... is that a regional thing... most people call it 'multiple choice' |
| [06:23:54] | [R]: | you're not really supposed to guess on tests... hehe |
| [06:23:58] | Beirdo: | 2010-09–01 23:23:42.942 Player(k): Waited 100ms for video buffers AAAAAAAAAAAAdDDLL |
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| [06:24:05] | Beirdo: | here w go again |
| [06:24:48] | Beirdo: | we need to fix that pain in the butt |
| [06:25:01] | wagnerrp: | that sounded like a death rattle there at the end |
| [06:26:17] | Beirdo: | it only does this occasionally, but it's so frigging annoying |
| [06:27:25] | Beirdo: | makes me wanna slap it silly |
| [06:28:25] | Beirdo: | and why is the load average 7? |
| [06:28:29] | Beirdo: | and rising? |
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| [06:32:39] | Beirdo: | stop being such a pig, computer |
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| [06:35:16] | Beirdo: | well, since I hadn't restarted the backup in the last little while... |
| [06:35:30] | Beirdo: | just finished compiling, so why not |
| [06:35:43] | Beirdo: | and there it goes again |
| [06:35:55] | Beirdo: | 30590 gjhurlbu 20 0 960m 375m 64m D 1 11.5 0:42.95 mythfrontend |
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| [06:36:05] | Beirdo: | that D is not too promising |
| [06:36:13] | wagnerrp: | thats a lotta memory |
| [06:36:27] | Beirdo: | 1080p display |
| [06:37:02] | Beirdo: | and it's Arclight, which ain't the lightest on memory |
| [06:37:13] | Beirdo: | I'm fine with that though |
| [06:37:28] | Beirdo: | I am NOT fine with this stupid ringbuf crapout though |
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| [06:40:20] | Beirdo: | 98.7% wa in top when it does this |
| [06:40:38] | Beirdo: | what in the heck is it doing and what is it waiting FOR! |
| [06:43:04] | Beirdo: | ooooh |
| [06:44:05] | Beirdo: | http://mythtv.pastebin.com/ChrrMg2A |
| [06:44:08] | Beirdo: | I see. |
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| [06:47:22] | treeshoe: | can mythtv be run as an application in a window say with ubunutu gnome in the background? or does it have its own windowing system? |
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| [06:47:56] | wagnerrp: | yes, no |
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| [06:49:04] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: wonder if other people with that silly issue of waiting for video buffers are also dealing with SATA resets, etc |
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| [06:50:19] | treeshoe: | I have something called mythbuntu control centre installed. Is there anything else I need to get mythtv working? |
| [06:50:34] | wagnerrp: | the rest of mythtv |
| [06:50:51] | wagnerrp: | mythbuntu control center is just some setup application developed for mythbuntu |
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| [07:34:11] | Beirdo: | night all. |
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| [10:11:59] | flexy: | hello, I just upgraded from ubuntu 9.10 to 10.04. I'm using svn compiled myths. I had some trouble to getting nvidia gpu working with binary drivers after upgrade. Seems I got that working again, but I can't compile mythtv anymore, --enable-vdpau in configure is not working for me. |
| [10:12:12] | flexy: | VDPAU support is listed as no |
| [10:12:52] | flexy: | I have libvdpau1 and libvdpau-dev installed |
| [10:13:27] | flexy: | also nvidia-185-libvdpau and -dev |
| [10:14:09] | flexy: | and nvidia-current and -dev |
| [10:14:30] | flexy: | crap, I'm not sure what more should I have installed |
| [10:14:45] | flexy: | or if I have something that I don't need |
| [10:14:49] | flexy: | help? :) |
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| [10:34:21] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuartm | |
| [10:35:30] | stuartm: | very impressed by Ebuyer's returns/RMA process, they have arranged next-day collection saving me the hassle of postage and costs |
| [10:35:58] | bjd: | courier? |
| [10:40:12] | stuartm: | yeah |
| [10:40:32] | bjd: | i'm impressed |
| [10:40:38] | bjd: | was it a large order? |
| [10:40:50] | stuartm: | bluray drive, costing ~£40 |
| [10:41:07] | stuartm: | not sure they'd do that in every case, but given my previous experiences it's a refreshing change |
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| [10:42:14] | stuartm: | bjd: probably helps that it failed just over a month from delivery, but it's still outside their normal 28 day returns period |
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| [10:58:16] | flexy: | how can I see what file I'm missing if mythtvs configuration does not accept --enable-vdpau? |
| [10:58:30] | flexy: | file or package? |
| [11:00:00] | justinh: | ffs. you know that bloke in the news who reckoned he was The Stig? Working for the company racing team now apparently |
| [11:00:50] | justinh: | stuartm: could've told you Ebuyer are good for RMAing. I returned a UPS last year or so ago.. very smooth indeedy |
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| [11:06:42] | stuartm: | justinh: cool, the last time I returned something to them was a few years ago |
| [11:07:17] | stuartm: | justinh: Ben whathisnameandwhoreallycares? |
| [11:08:09] | justinh: | heh yeah |
| [11:08:44] | justinh: | re RMAing stuff.. I think the distance selling regs have got everyone bang to rights anyway |
| [11:09:56] | justinh: | anyway, add The ex-Stig to the list of men of dishonour with connections to the company.. it's getting to be a nice list |
| [11:10:25] | justinh: | the non-exec director of Rover when they went to the wall, taking the pension fund with it.. he's our company chairman |
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| [11:11:21] | justinh: | glad the pension fund here isn't actually run by the company itself |
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| [11:15:14] | stuartm: | :/ |
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| [11:41:42] | rraasch: | hello. i have a strange experience with the installation of mythweb |
| [11:41:52] | rraasch: | none of the sub directories exist |
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| [11:42:03] | rraasch: | mythweb/tv/, mythweb/settings, etc. |
| [11:42:35] | rraasch: | the main page works and is present |
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| [11:43:18] | rraasch: | i looked at the code, and there are no directories under the root in the source. how are these modules changing the paths after they are loaded? |
| [11:43:39] | rraasch: | cuz they are under modules/tv modules/settings, etc. |
| [11:45:39] | rraasch: | flexy: read config.log and see which package /dependency it fails on |
| [11:48:07] | rraasch: | vdpau_deps="opengl vdpau_vdpau_h vdpau_vdpau_x11_h" |
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| [12:22:39] | flexy: | I installed nvidia drivers from JYA repo. 256.35 version. latest svn trunk, I can't get the configure --enable-vdpau to work. |
| [12:22:45] | flexy: | I allways get VDPAU support no |
| [12:24:31] | flexy: | earlier compiled mythtv is still working, even though it was compiled for a earlier nvidia version over a month ago |
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| [15:48:52] | Leon80: | The article on mythtv/wiki about nuvexport says that it should be part of mythtv now. But unfortunately I can't find it on my machine. I'm using 0.23-fixes on Gentoo. Could it be that nuvexport has been removed from the mythtv package in the past? |
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| [15:50:26] | iamlindoro: | That's a packaging issue, you'd need to speak to your packager about it-- nuvexport is still a part of the myth code |
| [15:50:41] | Leon80: | Furthermore I can't find a separate nuvexport ebuild in the portage tree. |
| [15:51:49] | Beirdo: | it's been packaged separately, I think. No idea about ebuilds though. |
| [15:53:29] | Leon80: | hmm... in this case I think I'll have a look into bugs.gentoo. Is it possible to compile it separately from trunk ? |
| [15:53:38] | Beirdo: | and lets see if I can avoid missing the bus today... It has a tendency to be a few minutes early |
| [15:53:51] | iamlindoro: | It's not compiled period, it's in perl |
| [15:54:16] | Leon80: | oh, that makes things easy |
| [15:54:52] | Leon80: | than it should be downloadable from svn |
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| [16:04:12] | wagnerrp: | Leon80: check maybe in /usr/share/mythtv |
| [16:04:53] | wagnerrp: | but yes, nuvexport is kept in a separate folder, mythextra, so it probably doesnt get pulled in by the ebuild |
| [16:08:59] | Leon80: | okay, i found something: As described in Gentoo bug #302132: nuvexport was removed from tree with mythtv-0.21, please use the nuvexport from upstream instead. it's only a script, afterall. and report your fixes upstream too, thanks! |
| [16:09:43] | Leon80: | I got it now from svn.mythtv.org |
| [16:11:39] | iamlindoro: | Heh, translation: "I don't want to deal with it, go get it from the Myth guys" |
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| [16:41:50] | GlemSom: | I'm trying to figure out why mythtv missed a recording today... According to the mythfrontend, the show was already recorded... Which is was not... Now I'm trying to figure out WHY it thinks it was already recorded. Mythfrontend says: "This showing was not recorded because this episode was previosly recorded according to the |
| [16:41:50] | GlemSom: | diplicate policy chosen for this title". Though, no such title exists in the "recorded" table in the database... :( |
| [16:42:10] | GlemSom: | And mythweb just says that the show was never recorded... |
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| [16:42:17] | GlemSom: | So, it seems a bit odd to me |
| [16:42:45] | tank-man: | how is your recording rule looking for duplicates? |
| [16:42:46] | GlemSom: | The recording profile is set to: "Find and record one showing of this title each day."... So, I really cannot understand why... |
| [16:43:06] | GlemSom: | tank-man, subtitle and description |
| [16:43:22] | wagnerrp: | GlemSom: then that was already recorded, and stored in the oldrecorded table |
| [16:43:26] | wagnerrp: | or |
| [16:43:35] | GlemSom: | I've searched fot the description in the "recorded" table, but it's not there |
| [16:43:49] | wagnerrp: | there was some sort of foul up at TMS, and they used a duplicate id on a show that did not actually matcg |
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| [16:45:22] | GlemSom: | I've looked in the oldrecorded table, and such description DOES exist... Though, it's from the recording today, that it missed! :( |
| [16:46:25] | GlemSom: | is seriesid supposed to be uniq pr episode ? |
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| [16:46:38] | wagnerrp: | episodeid is |
| [16:47:03] | wagnerrp: | programid rather |
| [16:47:23] | wagnerrp: | every match, recorded or not, will get an entry in oldrecorded |
| [16:47:43] | wagnerrp: | however everything but rectypes -3 and 9 will be flushed out in a couple days |
| [16:47:43] | Leon80: | GlemSom: I would recommend to the the recording rule looking for duplicates to none. |
| [16:48:17] | iamlindoro: | Yikes |
| [16:48:29] | iamlindoro: | No duplicate checking is as bad as wrong duplicate checking |
| [16:49:21] | GlemSom: | Ok, now when the recording is misses, I don't quite know how to debug this... I would like to know exactly WHY mythtv didn't record it... So I know what to change... |
| [16:50:51] | GlemSom: | wagnerrp, In oldrecorded, it is actually rectype 9... What does that mean ? |
| [16:51:33] | Leon80: | +iamlindoro: Sure it's not the final answer, but better record a show twice as missing one. |
| [16:52:00] | wagnerrp: | it was marked as a repeat |
| [16:54:46] | GlemSom: | So, the title&description is no-where else in the database... But for some odd reason, mythtv marked the showing as a repeat... :( |
| [16:55:27] | iamlindoro: | The listings themselves can declare a show a repeat |
| [16:55:48] | wagnerrp: | do you have set to filter for 'new episodes only'? |
| [16:55:51] | GlemSom: | According my mythweb, it's not a repeat |
| [16:55:54] | iamlindoro: | Myth onlt cares about repeats if you tell it to-- by default, all it cares about is *previously recorder*, which is different from repeats |
| [16:56:02] | iamlindoro: | er recorded |
| [16:56:12] | GlemSom: | wagnerrp, No, it's set to "none" |
| [16:56:23] | GlemSom: | iamlindoro, ahh ok |
| [16:56:35] | iamlindoro: | mythfrontend is the canonical source of info, not mythweb |
| [16:56:55] | iamlindoro: | (though mythweb isn't bad) |
| [17:00:44] | GlemSom: | WEll, mythfrontend just says: This showing was not recorded because this episode was previosly recorded according to the |
| [17:00:45] | GlemSom: | diplicate policy chosen for this title. |
| [17:01:00] | GlemSom: | Well, without the spelling errors... |
| [17:01:50] | GlemSom: | And since there's no other recording with that description, I REALLY cannot understand why mythtv thinks it's already recorded... :/ |
| [17:02:26] | iamlindoro: | GlemSom: It's just obscenely tough to troubleshoot this kind of thing in retrospect |
| [17:02:32] | awoodland (awoodland!~woodalan@nat67.mia.three.co.uk) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| [17:02:45] | iamlindoro: | It's fairly easy to look at scheduler output *before* it does something you don't expect and see why it's doing it |
| [17:03:02] | iamlindoro: | and invariably the scheduler is doing exactly what it's told-- but asking when that information is gone is just asking us to guess |
| [17:03:45] | GlemSom: | iamlindoro, Yeah... I guess you're right.. |
| [17:03:45] | GlemSom: | . |
| [17:03:58] | GlemSom: | Ohh wait, I think I have a database backup a day before... |
| [17:04:03] | GlemSom: | That might help then ? |
| [17:04:10] | iamlindoro: | If you see something like that coming up at some point, you can look at the raw scheduler output with mythbackend --printsched |
| [17:04:22] | iamlindoro: | Nah, because as soon as you restore it it will just jump to now again |
| [17:05:30] | GlemSom: | Well, unless I actually change the time on the machine... |
| [17:06:01] | GlemSom: | Sadly, the wife is currently watching a show... Si now might be a bad idea.. :P |
| [17:06:13] | Leon80: | Just restore the backup to a new database, eg. mythconverg_old. Why replace the current in this case? |
| [17:06:56] | GlemSom: | Leon80, I'm not skilled enough to figure this out, just by looking at the database... I think I need mythtv running on it, to see what's going on... |
| [17:07:35] | GlemSom: | I need to clean up my databse, it's 14mb compressed :/ |
| [17:08:10] | wagnerrp: | why is that a problem? |
| [17:09:31] | GlemSom: | Well, I just realized I cannot delete anything from it... So, guess I'll have to live with it... But, basecly if someone could help me, by looking at the database dump, 14mb it a but too much to transfer over my line |
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| [17:16:30] | kormoc: | GlemSom, check to see if another show in oldrecorded used the same episodeid |
| [17:17:01] | kormoc: | or is the show marked as generic? |
| [17:18:20] | Leon80: | GlemSom: In this case I think a simple zcat backup.sql.gz | grep "EPISODE-NAME" could do the trick without having to restore the db!? |
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| [17:19:15] | iamlindoro: | Leon80: grepping the database will not give him the information needed to see why the scheduler is deciding what it decides, since the current to-be-recorded stuff is kept in memory, not the DB |
| [17:19:33] | iamlindoro: | only the rules are in the DB-- the upcoming recordings and the scheduler data is in memory only |
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| [17:21:22] | sphery: | GlemSom: description and subtitle are basically ignored for duplicate matching in the world of "civilized" program listings |
| [17:22:13] | Leon80: | +iamlindoro: Agree, but is the current state of his db enought to discover this? I tought the to-be-recorded stuff is being calculated ragrding of the data within the db. |
| [17:22:27] | iamlindoro: | Leon80: Not unless you can run the scheduler in your head :) |
| [17:22:31] | sphery: | i.e. if you have a good listings provider, you also have good programid's, which are /the/ definitive identifier of episodes. If 2 programid's match, the show is known to be identical--despite what subtitle and description may say |
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| [17:25:40] | skd5aner: | I haven't read the backlog here, but occasionally I'll get a show with a "record on any channel" rule and it'll record simulaneously on 2 different channels the SD and HD channel (2 different sources), very frustrating |
| [17:25:57] | skd5aner: | not sure why – as it appears to me that all the IDs match |
| [17:26:10] | Leon80: | +iamlindoro: Okay, now the penny has dropped, finally. ;) |
| [17:26:24] | iamlindoro: | heh |
| [17:27:05] | iamlindoro: | Leon80: Yeah, the scheduler is pretty complicated (and often overcomplicated by people doing things to their rules that they ought not to do) so it's an exercise in madness trying to figure out why the scheduler does what it does without the actual scheduler output |
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| [17:28:38] | sphery: | skd5aner: yeah, this seems to be a "it didn't record because it already had" issue where he doesn't recognize the episode info |
| [17:29:07] | skd5aner: | Yea, it's doing it for FX shows pretty frequently |
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| [17:29:16] | skd5aner: | I've had to change them to a "this channel only" rule to avoid hat |
| [17:29:22] | skd5aner: | s/hat/that |
| [17:30:06] | skd5aner: | It's also pretty funny because I'm getting the wrong artwork for "Louie"... I should be getting this – http://thetvdb.com/?tab=series&id=155201&lid=7 but instead get this – http://thetvdb.com/?tab=series&id=80732&lid=7 haha |
| [17:30:40] | skd5aner: | I'll have to go in and edit the config file to override I guess |
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| [17:30:52] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: You should be setting the series name overrides in jamu.conf |
| [17:31:14] | iamlindoro: | Hey little one! Have you ever dreamed of exploring an island or travelling to the moon? Do you want to race cars and horses or to talk to a friendly bear? |
| [17:31:14] | iamlindoro: | hahah |
| [17:31:25] | Beirdo: | OMG, I really have to do something about my commflagging |
| [17:31:47] | Beirdo: | it's currently chugging through Burn Notice... recorded 8–9pm last night |
| [17:32:06] | wagnerrp: | why did you record burn notice last night? |
| [17:32:15] | Beirdo: | because it was on |
| [17:32:15] | skd5aner: | iamlindoro: haha, pretty entertaining if you know anything about Louis CK's show "Louie" I'm sure the audience has absolutely 0 overlap... haha |
| [17:32:43] | Beirdo: | and because (if it wasn't the original recording) I just fixed my schedule properly... |
| [17:32:58] | Beirdo: | heh, I had "this channel only", but then merged my channels |
| [17:33:05] | Beirdo: | so it wasn't recording anymore |
| [17:33:22] | skd5aner: | iamlindoro: besides overriding the shows locally in jamu.conf – any way to submit those fixes for the greater community? |
| [17:34:01] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: no-- at least, nothing that we would apply-- for .25, the user will select the artwork for the shows that they want, and it won't be a matter of guessing |
| [17:34:17] | skd5aner: | good deal |
| [17:34:21] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: as any override would fix it for your louie, but break it for the other louie |
| [17:34:46] | skd5aner: | what happens in the fringe cases when users record both? |
| [17:35:05] | Beirdo: | iamlindoro: any thought of adding a keymapping to show only the background (i.e. hide the foreground stuff) so we can see the entire fan art? |
| [17:35:07] | iamlindoro: | Then they get one piece of artwork |
| [17:35:11] | Beirdo: | a toggle of sorts? |
| [17:35:34] | iamlindoro: | Beirdo: It's been suggested before, but I'm not a fan of the idea, really |
| [17:35:40] | skd5aner: | that's a cool idea |
| [17:35:48] | skd5aner: | heh, well... at least to me :) |
| [17:36:00] | Beirdo: | well, you may never use it, but I think many of us would |
| [17:36:38] | Beirdo: | not sure as to complexity to make it work, though |
| [17:36:45] | skd5aner: | anyway – I thought I saw some guidance that XBMC gave out a year or so ago for how to create background art for these datasources that worked well with their themes... so that it'd be laid out in such a way that text would not overlay the graphics |
| [17:37:01] | skd5aner: | Not saying mythtv should emulate that, but it was a good idea I suppose |
| [17:37:22] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: That's their "vignette" stuff-- but it presupposes a fixed layout type of theme |
| [17:37:25] | skd5aner: | of course, most of the background art is basically fullscreen anyway |
| [17:37:28] | iamlindoro: | ie, it only really works with their default theme |
| [17:37:36] | Leon80: | +iamlindoro: Regarding the problem of GlemSom, the only way left to figure out this problem would be to try to switch on scheduler debug output by setting MYTH_VERBOSE="important,general,schedule" in /etc/conf.d/mythbackend. Could that bring the needed information? |
| [17:37:54] | skd5aner: | iamlindoro: yea, definitely limits the form of any themes... |
| [17:38:19] | iamlindoro: | Leon80: Wouldn't need all that at all, would just need mythbackend --printsched output when the issue is in the scheduled recordings |
| [17:38:43] | skd5aner: | iamlindoro: I've never played with XBMC or really even done much research other than at the time I was looking at guidance for creating artwork to submit to ttvdb for some series that had none |
| [17:38:49] | iamlindoro: | As sphery mentions, it is almost certainly that the programid matched a previously recorded item (ie, a guide quality issue) |
| [17:39:00] | skd5aner: | which is what I recall seeing it from |
| [17:42:13] | sphery: | although I'm 99.99999999% positive that the guide quality is better than the user memory :) |
| [17:42:33] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [17:42:34] | sphery: | i.e. it probably /is/ the same episode, but for some reason the description sounds very different |
| [17:42:50] | sphery: | which can actually happen when TMS updates the description because they find out it was bad |
| [17:46:37] | skd5aner: | hmmm, can't run jamu.py -J |
| [17:47:06] | RDV_Linux: | skd5aner: There is no -J option |
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| [17:47:44] | skd5aner: | -J, --mythtvjanitor ? |
| [17:48:05] | skd5aner: | .23-fixes |
| [17:48:22] | RDV_Linux: | skd5aner: Any MythTV related option need -M to start. Do jamy.py -h to see all option but see the wiki. You needed -MJ |
| [17:48:28] | sphery: | I actually like the idea of being able to show the background |
| [17:48:28] | skd5aner: | ah |
| [17:48:31] | skd5aner: | ok, thanks |
| [17:48:41] | sphery: | I have to say that sometimes the theme is covering up the best parts of the art... |
| [17:49:28] | kormoc: | sphery, funny how often that's true |
| [17:52:28] | skd5aner: | jamu stores coverart for movies by ID# and for recordings by recording name? |
| [17:52:45] | Beirdo: | yeah, that's why I was thinking... maybe put a menu item for "display fan art" or something, if not a toggle |
| [17:53:11] | RDV_Linux: | skd5aner: correct. jamu is only matching what MythVideo requirements. |
| [17:53:57] | skd5aner: | OK – just checking – I see they're in the same folder, but was confused by all the ####_coverart.png/jpg files intermixed with the recordingname_coverart.png/jpg files next to them until I opened some |
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| [18:42:23] | sphery: | I have to say it's amazing how many people are still considering woefully-underpowered systems for backends even after the --dd-grab-all benefits have been mentioned and times posted |
| [18:43:10] | iamlindoro: | People don't care about improved listings-- they care about cheap, at the expense of function |
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| [18:44:42] | sphery: | and, besides, they can just run a quad-core extreme system to do on-the-fly transcoding of stuff or to run PlayOn so they can actually use the atom systems |
| [18:45:06] | sphery: | just don't include that system's power usage when telling everyone how much electricity you're saving |
| [18:45:41] | iamlindoro: | heh |
| [18:45:44] | marc_us: | Greetings all |
| [18:47:02] | iamlindoro: | http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/02/fracking/index.html?hpt=C2 |
| [18:47:10] | iamlindoro: | I didn't think that's what fracking was... |
| [18:47:32] | iamlindoro: | sounds much less fun |
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| [18:50:31] | skd5aner: | sphery: 37 mins... ;) |
| [18:50:35] | skd5aner: | heh |
| [18:52:00] | sphery: | skd5aner: heh, for me 45s on my system and 1m8s on a friend's |
| [18:53:39] | iamlindoro: | Yeah, sure, with your Intel i93 23.00 Ghz 48-way |
| [18:54:14] | skd5aner: | imagine a beowolf cluster of those!!!11!11!11!!one!!1 |
| [18:54:33] | wagnerrp: | you think we'll bump up the gigamahertz race again? |
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| [19:23:11] | justinh: | the future's bright. the future's cloudy. Apple says so, so it must be true |
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| [19:28:27] | marc_us: | Bright and cloudy... Nice. Any chance for rain? Acid rain? |
| [19:29:10] | wagnerrp: | 10% chance of rock showers |
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| [19:30:01] | high-rez: | My main frontends video card went up in smoke *poof* |
| [19:30:05] | high-rez: | :( |
| [19:30:12] | sphery: | Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs? |
| [19:30:25] | justinh: | high-rez: maybe mysqlcheck will fix it |
| [19:30:27] | wagnerrp: | nah, rock showers |
| [19:30:28] | high-rez: | 2–3 month old card, fain fails – left it playing livetv all night. *poof* this morning :) |
| [19:30:44] | wagnerrp: | moon debris left over from apple blasting it apart to make it apple shaped |
| [19:30:55] | sphery: | ohhh |
| [19:31:10] | high-rez: | justinh: Sure, I'll uhm give that a try. I'm sure X will start afterwords :D |
| [19:31:26] | sphery: | wagnerrp: is that what NASA was doing with LCROSS? |
| [19:31:59] | wagnerrp: | no, that was small time |
| [19:32:10] | wagnerrp: | they dont have the kind of geniuses working for them that apple does |
| [19:32:40] | sphery: | heh |
| [19:33:00] | sphery: | just hope they get the antenna working on the probe so they can actually send it commands |
| [19:33:20] | high-rez: | So, I guess I'll be replacing this card. Do you guys think the Nvidia 240 is overkill ? Should I just get a 210 again ? |
| [19:33:29] | sphery: | and speaking of apple, this apple-religion war on -users is way too long |
| [19:33:37] | marc_us: | Wow high-rez, I've had them die but no Poof on me |
| [19:33:40] | wagnerrp: | shouldnt a 210 be new enough to be under warranty? |
| [19:34:36] | marc_us: | somehting short it out or did it over heat? |
| [19:34:41] | high-rez: | wagnerrp: Yeah I threw away all of that warranty stuff. I've never had a card that I didn't massively overclock go bad on me. :) No receipt, no box, its a goner – and wife won't be happy that she cant watch tv while i wait for an RMA anyways. |
| [19:34:59] | wagnerrp: | not purchased online? |
| [19:35:05] | wagnerrp: | no backups? |
| [19:35:18] | high-rez: | marc_us: I think its overheat. Hard to say. Smells awful – weird enough it kinda sort of works (text mode, except all the text is garbled) |
| [19:35:47] | high-rez: | wagnerrp: At frys, which of course means I paid too much for it. I've got a backup 8600 gts, but that means no hdmi audio – which is a problem for my config. |
| [19:36:10] | high-rez: | Nothing like overpaying for a product that only lasts a few months :D |
| [19:36:22] | marc_us: | Sounds like the Clock if it has an oclilator or the GPU got too hot |
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| [19:36:56] | high-rez: | I should go look and see if there are any blown caps. |
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| [19:37:31] | high-rez: | All that said, do you guys think theres any advantage to the 240 over the 210 for h264 1080i stuff ? |
| [19:37:36] | marc_us: | My backed used to be hooked up to the tv in the living room. The wife hated using seperate speakers aprart fro the TV for sound |
| [19:38:11] | marc_us: | I could not say since I use only ION front ends now |
| [19:38:40] | high-rez: | I got an ION in the bedroom |
| [19:38:54] | marc_us: | Not perfect but close enough |
| [19:39:03] | high-rez: | Love it. No moving parts is great for the room I sleep in :) |
| [19:39:30] | marc_us: | I still have a little jitter from time to time as things pan ... Very little and not a deal killer |
| [19:39:50] | high-rez: | Temporal 1x is just fine for me |
| [19:40:25] | marc_us: | Hm... I use VDPAU 2x (crud, I can't remember) |
| [19:40:36] | marc_us: | not temporal |
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| [19:42:49] | marc_us: | Dang, I can't remember |
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| [19:46:50] | Chromag9: | any suggestions on a tv out graphics card that is proven to work well with MythTV? |
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| [19:47:33] | wagnerrp: | anything nvidia |
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| [19:47:58] | Chromag9: | so pretty much any newer nvidia card? |
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| [19:49:19] | wagnerrp: | you specifically want a 'tv out'? |
| [19:49:28] | Chromag9: | does it matter if it's a PCI-Express card or regular PCI? |
| [19:49:31] | wagnerrp: | meaning svideo? |
| [19:49:43] | Chromag9: | well – something that will work with my HDTV |
| [19:49:59] | wagnerrp: | what inputs can you use? |
| [19:50:07] | Chromag9: | component or HDMI |
| [19:50:29] | wagnerrp: | HDMI is easy, anything 8-series or newer |
| [19:50:36] | wagnerrp: | most people tend to go for a GT210 or 220 |
| [19:50:45] | Chromag9: | and I have already own a DVR to HDMI cable, but |
| [19:50:56] | wagnerrp: | anything more is overkill |
| [19:50:58] | Chromag9: | *DVI |
| [19:51:55] | Chromag9: | I'll check prices on those, thanks |
| [19:52:19] | Chromag9: | and I'm currently a DirecTV subscriber – so it looks like getting HD from their STB isn't going to be easy or cheap |
| [19:52:25] | wagnerrp: | the GT card with HDMI support audio over HDMI, if thats something youre interested in |
| [19:52:33] | wagnerrp: | and HD from direct tv, you need an HDPVR |
| [19:52:37] | wagnerrp: | no other option |
| [19:53:06] | Chromag9: | would I be able to get most channels? other then PPV – I'm guessing those are encrypted or whatever-its-called |
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| [19:53:30] | wagnerrp: | the HDPVR is an analog capture device |
| [19:53:33] | Chromag9: | and yeah – the HDPVR runs about $200 USD, not cheap |
| [19:53:38] | wagnerrp: | you capture the component output of your STB |
| [19:53:44] | Chromag9: | but not terrible I suppose |
| [19:53:45] | wagnerrp: | you can record anything your STB will output |
| [19:53:51] | Chromag9: | ahh |
| [19:54:07] | Chromag9: | so assuming the STB will output everything via component I should be good |
| [19:54:13] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [19:54:19] | Chromag9: | which I'm sure it will |
| [19:54:23] | wagnerrp: | and for the time being, that is true |
| [19:54:40] | Chromag9: | I can't imagine they would enforce HDMI anytime soon |
| [19:54:54] | GrahamIRC: | Is it permissible to mention HD Fury here? |
| [19:54:56] | Chromag9: | I'm sure there are people with older TV's that are using component and not HDMI |
| [19:55:01] | wagnerrp: | its not currently legal |
| [19:55:07] | wagnerrp: | and there is nothing illegal about the HD FUry |
| [19:55:08] | Chromag9: | the HD Fury isn't? |
| [19:55:19] | wagnerrp: | selectively disabling outputs isnt |
| [19:55:29] | Chromag9: | well that's good news then |
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| [19:55:43] | Chromag9: | if I decide to go the MythTV route it should work for me for quite a while then |
| [19:55:54] | GrahamIRC: | but if you're in the UK and you order Sky HD then the STB only has HDMI and composite outputs – no component |
| [19:56:03] | Chromag9: | I suppose I could always dump them for Verizon FIOS – I use them as my internet provider right now and they're bugging me to get their TV service |
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| [19:56:35] | Chromag9: | but some quick googling only showed some older articles about MythTV and FIOS |
| [19:56:56] | wagnerrp: | verizon is generally considered to be one of the best cable providers |
| [19:57:04] | wagnerrp: | since video and internet do not share bandwidth |
| [19:57:16] | Chromag9: | how well does their STB play with MythTV? |
| [19:57:27] | wagnerrp: | as well as any other cable STB |
| [19:57:34] | wagnerrp: | http://mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable |
| [19:58:20] | Chromag9: | sweet – I'll take a look |
| [19:58:28] | Chromag9: | I'm just SO done with my DirecTV HD DVR |
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| [19:58:36] | Chromag9: | the slowness is absolutely killing me |
| [19:58:44] | justinh: | heh |
| [19:58:59] | justinh: | now if they'd not slapped all their cruddy middleware etc on... |
| [19:59:27] | justinh: | I've seen a STB run linux & apps natively and oh boy was it ever responsive |
| [19:59:35] | Chromag9: | It didn't use to be this slow – only in about the last 4–5 months has it gotten ridiculous |
| [19:59:42] | sphery: | note that if your goal is "Live TV", MythTV likely won't change (or, especially, won't improve) on slowness |
| [19:59:44] | Chromag9: | especially at the top of the hour when it switches to a new hour... ugh |
| [19:59:47] | wagnerrp: | but but... direct tv has been advertising all sorts of new features on their DVRs recently |
| [19:59:57] | wagnerrp: | new features that other DVRs implemented a decade ago... |
| [19:59:59] | Chromag9: | they do have lots of features |
| [20:00:07] | Chromag9: | yeah like multiroom viewing! |
| [20:00:07] | sphery: | if you mean the UI is slow, then MythTV can help--with an appropriately-designed system |
| [20:00:12] | Chromag9: | wait, Tivo could do that forever ago |
| [20:00:17] | sphery: | if you mean channel change times, they may actually get worse |
| [20:00:23] | Chromag9: | yeah I mean the responsiveness of the box itself |
| [20:00:31] | sphery: | cool, that you can control |
| [20:00:36] | sphery: | just make sure you get a computer and not a toy |
| [20:00:37] | wagnerrp: | no, replaytv added multi-room use back in the 90s |
| [20:00:50] | Chromag9: | when the time goes from 7:59 to 8:00 the entire box basically locks up for a good 30 seconds if not more |
| [20:00:52] | wagnerrp: | the units were independent, but they could share with each other |
| [20:01:32] | justinh: | yeah but NDS have just invented it! |
| [20:02:27] | Chromag9: | I do like that the box plays nicely with DLNA – I can stream Netflix and Hulu via PlayOn right to my DirecTV receiver |
| [20:02:39] | sphery: | yeah, all my friends talk about how amazing it is that AT&T does that in their Uverse |
| [20:02:44] | justinh: | they've actually got promo material somewhere for a big server-type DVR box & smaller under-set boxes, all networked |
| [20:02:57] | Chromag9: | that would be cool |
| [20:03:15] | justinh: | who wants to pay for sub DVD quality rentals at DVD prices anyway? |
| [20:03:21] | sphery: | but I can't tell them, "Well, I've been able to do that since Feb 2004," because I have no need for more than 1 TV in the house. |
| [20:03:27] | justinh: | oh wait.. everybody.. cos it's 'cool'. Or something |
| [20:04:14] | justinh: | but hey at least with silverlight under the hood maybe netflix doesn't suck as badly as flash does |
| [20:04:20] | sphery: | justinh: no, you have to market it right... it's "cloud storage" not "sub DVD quality rentals at [or greater than] DVD prices" |
| [20:04:29] | justinh: | oh! |
| [20:05:05] | sphery: | talk about a "Touch of Grey", though |
| [20:06:16] | wagnerrp: | why are blackberries so much more dangerous than other forms of mobile communication? |
| [20:06:18] | Chromag9: | so as far as hardware goes I'm planning on taking my existing motherboard/processor and gutting it and putting it into an HTPC box |
| [20:06:29] | Chromag9: | they are less than a year old |
| [20:06:39] | wagnerrp: | i mean why are governments going after them so hard for data access? |
| [20:06:48] | sphery: | wagnerrp: because they're securing communications from the phone to the blackberry servers--for even the tech-impaired people |
| [20:06:53] | Chromag9: | cramming in more RAM to up it to 8GB or so and installing a couple 1TB drives |
| [20:07:21] | wagnerrp: | what is 8GB of memory going to get you? |
| [20:07:27] | Chromag9: | other than that... any nVidia 8xxxx series video card, and the Hauppage HDPVR device is all I need? |
| [20:07:32] | sphery: | and, that means that when those e-mails go--unencrypted--from server to server after the blackberry servers receive them encrypted, no one can intercept them |
| [20:08:07] | Chromag9: | probably nothing – I have no idea how much ram MythTV takes or how much Ubuntu supports (looking at Mythbuntu) |
| [20:08:18] | Chromag9: | right now the box only has 2 GB |
| [20:08:19] | sphery: | Chromag9: yeah, I'd recommend 2GB or 4GB of RAM and a modern Core 2 or Athlon X2 or better type processor |
| [20:08:22] | wagnerrp: | sphery: and you just use webmail over TLS? |
| [20:08:46] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah, but the annoying thing is that it's only secured for the first linki |
| [20:08:50] | Chromag9: | yeah right now I'm using an AMD Athlon II X2 |
| [20:09:20] | wagnerrp: | sphery: right, to the server, after which it cannot be intercepted |
| [20:09:23] | sphery: | Chromag9: my personal favorite... that will work great--2GB or 4GB... no need for 8GB. The terrabyte HDD is good, though |
| [20:09:26] | Chromag9: | what about OTA HD? in the case that the satellite goes out which happens every once in a while |
| [20:09:36] | wagnerrp: | or are you implying that the blackberry servers are outside their borders, and outside their control |
| [20:10:19] | sphery: | wagnerrp: no, I'm saying that once the blackberry servers send it to the recipient (assuming it's a recipient on another e-mail server), it goes out completely unprotected |
| [20:11:41] | sphery: | granted, it's not as straightforward to intercept a particular person's communications as they're sent from the server to others as it is to just intercept them at the person's device, but it's still possible |
| [20:12:11] | wagnerrp: | sphery: im not talking about government blackberry users |
| [20:12:23] | wagnerrp: | im talking about the general purpose servers, for the average consumer |
| [20:12:33] | sphery: | I'm talking about normal people sending normal e-mails using blackberries |
| [20:12:40] | wagnerrp: | apparently now the UN is pushing for data access |
| [20:12:42] | sphery: | SMTP isn't encrypted |
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| [20:13:03] | Chromag9: | oh one more question about the HDPVR – I'm guessing with ONE of those devices there's no way of doing dual-tuner-like support in MythTV? |
| [20:13:18] | Chromag9: | or does MTV even support multiple input processing or multiple buffers? |
| [20:13:19] | Chromag9: | like Tivo |
| [20:13:36] | wagnerrp: | sphery: but there are fairly easy ways to encrypt it |
| [20:13:39] | Chromag9: | I miss multiple buffers – stupid DirecTV and their crappy "workaround" for that |
| [20:13:39] | sphery: | i.e. I use TLS to encrypt communications from my client to my mail server, but the only real purpose of doing so is to prevent interception of my SMTP auth password |
| [20:13:52] | wagnerrp: | anyone who actually thinks they need such security can easily get it |
| [20:13:57] | sphery: | because once my mail server gets it, it has to send it unencrypted to all the other servers |
| [20:13:59] | wagnerrp: | Chromag9: multiple buffers? |
| [20:14:09] | sphery: | which means if I really want encryption, the payload has to be encrypted |
| [20:14:22] | sphery: | which means I need to use GPG/PGP/... |
| [20:14:29] | sphery: | which anyone in the world could do |
| [20:14:49] | Chromag9: | wagnerrp: yeah – the DVR can record two things at once with their own buffers and you can flip back and forth – Tivo can do that (at least older versions) |
| [20:15:12] | wagnerrp: | Chromag9: meaning it has two tuners, or two capture devices |
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| [20:15:19] | Chromag9: | so you can pause live TV on input1, switch to input2 and watch for a bit and switch back to input1 and it would still be paused |
| [20:15:24] | wagnerrp: | if you have multiple inputs on mythtv, you can do exactly the same |
| [20:15:42] | wagnerrp: | however you cannot instantiate multiple livetv sessions and flip between them |
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| [20:15:55] | wagnerrp: | if you find something youre interested in watching, hit 'r' to start a recording |
| [20:15:58] | wagnerrp: | and go back to it later |
| [20:16:08] | Chromag9: | yeah that's basically was DirecTV does now |
| [20:16:12] | Chromag9: | *basically what |
| [20:16:31] | Chromag9: | although they recently introduced some buffer feature but it's not as nice as Tivo's was |
| [20:16:33] | wagnerrp: | the recording will exist back to when the show started, or you switched to that channel |
| [20:16:37] | wagnerrp: | which ever is more recent |
| [20:16:41] | Chromag9: | right |
| [20:16:50] | wagnerrp: | 'livetv' mode doesnt get much love in mythtv |
| [20:17:03] | wagnerrp: | because its the opinion of most mythtv developers that if youre using livetv, youre using a DVR wrong |
| [20:17:07] | Chromag9: | but for multiple buffers for HD content from DirecTV would require two HDPVR's – so basically $400 |
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| [20:17:23] | Chromag9: | I use live tv all the time |
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| [20:17:37] | Chromag9: | if it's a show Im interested in watching right when it comes on |
| [20:17:44] | wagnerrp: | because you are currently restricted by the limited storage space of your current DVR |
| [20:17:57] | Chromag9: | now 90% of the time I'm a few minutes behind just for some buffer to get through a few commercial breaks |
| [20:18:12] | wagnerrp: | using the capabilities properly, you record anything you /may/ want to watch |
| [20:18:24] | wagnerrp: | and you watch... or dont, some time later at your leisure |
| [20:18:50] | Chromag9: | well I do both |
| [20:19:39] | Chromag9: | one tuner may be working dilligently recording a Dirtiest Jobs while I watch Eureka on scifi live, etc |
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| [20:20:17] | wagnerrp: | and for that, you need two inputs |
| [20:20:27] | wagnerrp: | and for HD, you will need two HDPVRs |
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| [20:20:43] | wagnerrp: | standard definition is far cheaper, as are digital tuners |
| [20:21:38] | Chromag9: | yeah having to have two HDPVR's may be a deal breaker – I'll have to do more research on connecting a Verizon FIOS TV STB to MythTV |
| [20:21:46] | Chromag9: | I wonder if that requires the HDPVR to record HD |
| [20:21:59] | wagnerrp: | read the page i gave you |
| [20:22:13] | wagnerrp: | it explains the limitations of recording off encrypted sources |
| [20:23:18] | Chromag9: | I'll check it out – thanks |
| [20:25:15] | Chromag9: | I was reading the specifics on how it handles live TV and wow |
| [20:25:23] | Chromag9: | it pretty much records EVERYTHING |
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| [20:25:33] | orogor: | hi here |
| [20:25:36] | Chromag9: | not sure if I like that or not |
| [20:25:37] | wagnerrp: | all DVRs record everything |
| [20:25:40] | wagnerrp: | thats what they do |
| [20:26:01] | wagnerrp: | mythtv is just different in that it keeps that information on disk for an extended period |
| [20:26:06] | orogor: | is there any guide from migrating from no storage group to storage group |
| [20:26:09] | wagnerrp: | instead of using a few hundred MB of space as a rolling buffer |
| [20:26:16] | Chromag9: | ahgh |
| [20:26:18] | Chromag9: | ahh |
| [20:26:39] | orogor: | because apparently now it s mandatorty on mythweb to use storage group |
| [20:26:41] | wagnerrp: | livetv recordings are kept around for a day, or until you run out of space and they are auto-expired |
| [20:26:58] | Chromag9: | but it looks like it actually adds the live shows to your list of recordings though – or do they not show up because they have the "live tv" flag? |
| [20:27:01] | wagnerrp: | at any point during this time, you can go in and mark them as full recordings to be kept around |
| [20:27:14] | wagnerrp: | normally, they are filtered out of the list of recordings |
| [20:27:22] | sphery: | MythTV motto: You've got storage. Use it. |
| [20:27:27] | wagnerrp: | orogor: video access on mythweb is currently broken |
| [20:27:30] | Chromag9: | ahh ok good – seeing as I would pretty much never turn the box off, ever |
| [20:27:32] | sphery: | i.e. unused storage is /wasted/ storage! |
| [20:27:44] | Chromag9: | haha glab I'm going with a couple TB drives then! |
| [20:27:47] | Chromag9: | *glad |
| [20:27:50] | wagnerrp: | while you should switch to storage groups, mythweb is not the reason why |
| [20:28:32] | sphery: | orogor: yes, really you should not use MythWeb's MythVideo support in 0.23-fixes (and, TTBOMK, in trunk) because it will break your data |
| [20:29:21] | orogor: | haa |
| [20:29:37] | orogor: | also is there any auth system for mythweb? like user profiles? |
| [20:29:51] | wagnerrp: | yes, basic apache http auth |
| [20:29:57] | sphery: | Chromag9: Our approach is no different than the approach the Linux kernel uses--RAM /should/ be used, and a system with unused RAM is wasting RAM. They keep a buffer of disk reads in the available RAM. We keep a buffer of recordings on the disk and we automatically delete them (in order, according to the criteria you specify) when we need more storage space. |
| [20:30:39] | orogor: | wagnerrp, you can set read only or admin acess with it? |
| [20:31:04] | sphery: | Chromag9: Live TV is always deleted first, then recordings... Generally, people tell MythTV to delete recordings either in starttime order or recording priority order--possibly modified with whether or not the show has been watched, yet |
| [20:31:42] | orogor: | priority is better!! |
| [20:31:54] | wagnerrp: | no, there is only a single access level |
| [20:32:00] | sphery: | orogor: $99 2TB drives are better still |
| [20:32:03] | sphery: | :D |
| [20:32:06] | orogor: | heheheh |
| [20:32:21] | orogor: | i thought that was too slow for mythtv |
| [20:32:36] | skd5aner: | where's the $99 deal? |
| [20:32:43] | sphery: | and, having mentioned such: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148413 with promo code EMCYXYN37 |
| [20:32:52] | sphery: | not that I'm recommending Seagate or newegg... |
| [20:32:55] | sphery: | just saying |
| [20:33:00] | Chromag9: | yeah as long as the live recordings don't get muddled in with the things I intentionally record I'm fine with that |
| [20:33:11] | sphery: | (but at least seagate doesn't use stupid 4kB sectors) |
| [20:33:37] | sphery: | 4kB sectors don't help until you have a hard drive bigger than the 512kB sector size ceiling |
| [20:33:39] | orogor: | 4 sata 2 raid 10 drives there to get right now up to 4 recordings at a time, but as soon as as myth is more stable with iptv upt o 8 recrdings |
| [20:33:54] | skd5aner: | a 3/5 review: "Good price, very large size." <shakes head> |
| [20:34:08] | skd5aner: | oh, probably means capacity, not size |
| [20:34:09] | orogor: | if now somone tells me i can do this with a signle drive, i buy it tomorow |
| [20:34:28] | sphery: | orogor: you may actually be better served with 8 file systems than one |
| [20:34:43] | orogor: | 8 file systems !?! |
| [20:34:45] | sphery: | with a single file system you'll get serious file system fragmentatoin |
| [20:34:59] | orogor: | ext4 there ... but maybe |
| [20:35:08] | sphery: | with # of file systems equal to the maximum number of concurrent recordings, you'll get virtually no fragmentation |
| [20:35:12] | Chromag9: | wow the geforce 210 cards with HDMI out are cheap! |
| [20:35:20] | orogor: | never had issues with fragmentation and i wouldn t expect to have issues with it on mythtv sized files |
| [20:35:27] | wagnerrp: | orogor: a single hard drive should have no problems with four simultaneous recordings |
| [20:35:31] | sphery: | that said, if you want redundancy, you can use RAID, but if the RAID is just to get the speed up, you're better of with separate file systems |
| [20:35:35] | GrahamIRC: | I bought a couple of the GT210's Chromag9 |
| [20:35:46] | Chromag9: | they working fine for Myth? |
| [20:35:46] | sphery: | (for MythTV's usage) |
| [20:35:49] | wagnerrp: | orogor: the problem with fragmentation is because mythtv has a tight sync loop |
| [20:35:51] | GrahamIRC: | yup |
| [20:35:56] | Chromag9: | good to know! |
| [20:35:59] | wagnerrp: | recordings are written straight to disk |
| [20:36:04] | wagnerrp: | rather than using a large write buffer |
| [20:36:14] | GrahamIRC: | as does the 9600M in my laptop |
| [20:36:17] | sphery: | orogor: MythTV-sized files that are written over a period of hours will necessarily fragment |
| [20:36:28] | sphery: | when you have multiple concurrent recordigns to the same file system |
| [20:36:34] | orogor: | haa yes |
| [20:36:37] | orogor: | true |
| [20:36:39] | GrahamIRC: | havem't tried audio over HDMI yet, but the hardware is capable |
| [20:37:05] | sphery: | there's no way to pre-allocate the right amount of space... some file systems do better (or allow better control) than others, but separate file systems fix the problem :) |
| [20:37:09] | orogor: | hummm mythtv setup doesnt start anymore :/ |
| [20:37:25] | GrahamIRC: | I think XFS allows you to pre-allocate doesn't it? |
| [20:37:33] | orogor: | yup |
| [20:37:38] | sphery: | yeah, but since we don't know how big the final recording will be... |
| [20:37:50] | wagnerrp: | if you set it to |
| [20:38:00] | sphery: | so you can tell it to use a specific guess, but it still doesn't solve the problem |
| [20:38:03] | GrahamIRC: | true, but most of my recordings are 30 mins – 1hr |
| [20:38:06] | wagnerrp: | most people recommend you mount it set to pre-allocate in 512MB blocks |
| [20:38:26] | orogor: | mythtv setup is used to configure /create storage groups , right? |
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| [20:38:36] | sphery: | I just think separate file systems have tons of benefits and no down sides |
| [20:38:56] | GrahamIRC: | until one fills up and you have loads of space on the others |
| [20:39:12] | orogor: | well on a san , no downside on a personal computer it s an annoyance |
| [20:40:24] | GrahamIRC: | I guess you might as well pre-allocate on XFS as really that's what you're kind of doing with 8 FS's |
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| [20:40:39] | fdlinux: | hi all |
| [20:40:41] | wagnerrp: | GrahamIRC: not at all |
| [20:40:45] | GrahamIRC: | no? |
| [20:40:56] | fdlinux: | anyone know how i can control sound volume for hdmi ? |
| [20:41:00] | orogor: | mythtv-setup is used to configure /create storage groups , right? not mythfrontend? |
| [20:41:10] | GrahamIRC: | on the amp fdlinux? |
| [20:41:18] | fdlinux: | amp? |
| [20:41:33] | GrahamIRC: | amplifier – TV – Surround Sound amp – whatever |
| [20:41:39] | wagnerrp: | when you pre-allocate blocks to write to on a raid |
| [20:41:50] | wagnerrp: | you are still writing to all the disks at once |
| [20:41:56] | wagnerrp: | so as you write multiple streams |
| [20:41:58] | Chromag9: | can anyone suggest a card for US OTA broadcasts in HD? |
| [20:42:05] | wagnerrp: | all the disks have to repeatedly flip back and forth |
| [20:42:06] | GrahamIRC: | cos you're striping thru the RAID? |
| [20:42:07] | Chromag9: | I'm guessing Hauppage probably sells one |
| [20:42:14] | fdlinux: | where do i find it |
| [20:42:16] | sphery: | GrahamIRC: with appropriate Storage Group balancing, it won't... Just need proper configuration and they'll get used equally |
| [20:42:16] | wagnerrp: | if you have multiple drives, you can write sequentially |
| [20:42:34] | GrahamIRC: | one FS per drive? |
| [20:42:47] | wagnerrp: | correct |
| [20:42:48] | sphery: | ideally |
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| [20:43:06] | GrahamIRC: | agreed, but if you have a single disk to store your recorded TV on.... |
| [20:43:18] | sphery: | but with root MySQL data on a non-recording file system at minimum (even if it has a recording partition) |
| [20:43:55] | GrahamIRC: | yes, I have a dedicated drive for TV |
| [20:44:07] | GrahamIRC: | but just the one, albeit 2TB drive |
| [20:44:30] | orogor: | anyone can tell me wher emyth-setup logs should be on ubuntu ? |
| [20:44:35] | GrahamIRC: | I'm about to start feeding it from 3 or 4 sources |
| [20:44:36] | fdlinux: | google redirects me to lamp server |
| [20:44:41] | orogor: | it seems broken , it pen, then close immediatly |
| [20:44:51] | orogor: | i can not find anything on mythbackend or front end logs |
| [20:45:26] | GrahamIRC: | orogor – can you run mythtv-setup from a terminal – you'll see output then |
| [20:45:28] | orogor: | as i remember that was because some UI/theme xml file was missing, i cna t remember how i found that or which file it was |
| [20:45:45] | fdlinux: | how do you control the sound off hdmi in mythtv? |
| [20:46:02] | orogor: | no logs here |
| [20:46:32] | wagnerrp: | orogor? /var/log/mythtv ? |
| [20:46:59] | Chromag9: | any real benefit of purchasing a 7200rpm drive over a cheaper but slower rpm one? |
| [20:47:08] | Beirdo: | of course |
| [20:47:14] | GrahamIRC: | fdlinux – HDMI audio is digital – to control it's volume would require digital manipulation and probably wouldn't be desirable even if myth can do it |
| [20:47:15] | orogor: | it s directory i tried to tail -f /var/log/mythtv/* and saw nothing relevant there |
| [20:47:17] | Beirdo: | faster data transfer. |
| [20:47:26] | GrahamIRC: | volume should be controlled at the TV/Surround Amp |
| [20:47:38] | Chromag9: | well – my question is whether there would be any real noticable advantage in MythTV |
| [20:47:48] | Chromag9: | I realize in terms of benchmarks and such – of course, it's faster |
| [20:47:58] | Beirdo: | depends on how many concurrent streams you are dealing with. Likely not for most people |
| [20:48:02] | Chromag9: | but in reality – for the purpose of MythTV |
| [20:48:08] | GrahamIRC: | I think the 5400's with big buffer are performing as well |
| [20:48:11] | GrahamIRC: | and quieter |
| [20:48:15] | GrahamIRC: | and lower power |
| [20:48:22] | Chromag9: | quiet is also something I definitely want |
| [20:48:31] | Beirdo: | yeah, it depends on how much data your setup is pushing/pulling from the drives |
| [20:48:37] | Beirdo: | and that depends on your setup |
| [20:49:34] | Chromag9: | depends on if transferring HD from a Verizon FIOS STB it going to be way cheaper than having to purchase $400 in two HDPVR's |
| [20:49:40] | Beirdo: | I'd expect that you'd be fine with 5400 or 5900 without really knowing that your peak performance is hampered as your actual usage is still well below peak |
| [20:49:48] | Chromag9: | since I currently have DirecTV |
| [20:50:42] | Chromag9: | if I find out a Verizon STB is way cheaper and easier to deal with I may just switch providers |
| [20:51:36] | Chromag9: | I just need dual inputs – my D*TV HDDVR works overtime as it is – I don't think I could go back to using a single input |
| [20:52:02] | Chromag9: | so I'm guessing even with dual inputs a 5400–5900 rpm drive would still be fine |
| [20:52:20] | sphery: | Chromag9: MythTV reads and writes files at rates of 19Mbps or less (that being mega/bits/ per second).... That's nothing for even the slowest drive out there |
| [20:52:29] | Beirdo: | well, I have HDPVR + HD Homerun + 2*PVR-250 |
| [20:52:49] | fdlinux: | ok it works ,thx |
| [20:52:52] | skd5aner: | anyone know if mythweb shows the SD/tms seriesid anywhere? |
| [20:53:00] | Beirdo: | I've had as many as 6 recordings going simultaneously at various bitrates, and I'd be OK on a 5400RPM drive |
| [20:53:07] | Chromag9: | nice! |
| [20:53:11] | Beirdo: | happen to have 7200RPM right now though, but... |
| [20:53:25] | Chromag9: | so you have a provider that has a STB that requires you to use the HDPVR? |
| [20:53:41] | orogor: | is it me or there used to be something to recompress video on the fly when sing mythweb ? |
| [20:53:42] | Beirdo: | figure 15Mbps for HD at 1080i... * 4 + 4Mbps * 2 for the SD... |
| [20:53:47] | sphery: | Chromag9: so the only time you'll need a faster drive is when you're trying to cram 8 concurent recordings onto the same file system while commflagging a couple and transcoding--and even then, the barrier you'd hit first would be seeking (and, again, separate file systems would solve the problem so you can use those WD Green low-power drives or whatever) |
| [20:53:48] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner, programid? yes... seriesid? no |
| [20:54:00] | Beirdo: | that's what... 130Mbps -> < 20MB/s |
| [20:54:22] | Beirdo: | yep |
| [20:54:36] | Beirdo: | sphery is even more nuts than I am with the recordings :) |
| [20:54:41] | Beirdo: | he'd know well |
| [20:54:49] | Chromag9: | I can't imagine how much more you'd need |
| [20:54:54] | Chromag9: | but I do love my TV :) |
| [20:55:09] | sphery: | skd5aner: it does have seriesid in a couple places (such as the detail page after Type) |
| [20:55:12] | Beirdo: | depends. a lot of shows are on concurrently |
| [20:55:19] | Chromag9: | my current thought is dual HD inputs and an OTA HD input |
| [20:56:10] | Beirdo: | you should be fine unless your drive controllers are total pieces of crap |
| [20:56:26] | sphery: | Beirdo: heh, I have 7 file systems and 4 capture cards, though, so I don't test the tons-to-the-same-file-system cases |
| [20:56:27] | Chromag9: | I'm sure it'll be fine |
| [20:56:38] | Beirdo: | assuming you re using modern drives, not 15yr old ones, of course |
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| [20:56:48] | Beirdo: | sphery: fair enough |
| [20:57:22] | Chromag9: | will MythTV run on a virtualized type OS – for example running Mythbuntu under KVM or openVZ? |
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| [20:57:36] | wagnerrp: | yes, dont |
| [20:57:39] | Chromag9: | and no – the drives would be brand new |
| [20:58:11] | Chromag9: | so it will – but it not advised |
| [20:58:14] | sphery: | Beirdo: heh, I'm actually getting down to not-crazy-usage, now: 1296 programs, using 5.6 TB (1 month 24 days 22 hrs 53 mins) |
| [20:58:14] | Chromag9: | *is not |
| [20:58:27] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [20:58:34] | Chromag9: | that's a lot of tv – quite impressive |
| [20:58:35] | Beirdo: | I aspire to your recording count |
| [20:58:41] | tgm4883: | sphery, you and I have differing opinions of "not-crazy-usage" |
| [20:59:04] | Beirdo: | I'm at 120G used and watching a bit closely |
| [20:59:20] | Beirdo: | I need to get those 2TB drives soon |
| [20:59:25] | sphery: | so, basically, after the EMP device is detonated over the US, taking out all the broadcast towers so there's no new recordings, I'll be all caught up in just a couple months |
| [20:59:28] | tgm4883: | I had 1.5TB, until the drive crashed on me :( |
| [20:59:51] | sphery: | oh, wait, I'd have to do som EMP-hardening on my own system.... |
| [21:00:33] | sphery: | tgm4883: how much did you lose? |
| [21:00:42] | wagnerrp: | an 'emp device' does not need an aerial detonation, only a nuke |
| [21:00:43] | Beirdo: | sphery: you might wanna yah |
| [21:01:00] | Chromag9: | well thanks for all the helpful information |
| [21:01:07] | tgm4883: | me? only a few shows. The wifey, quite a few shows |
| [21:01:10] | Beirdo: | think of it this way... next time Florida gets pounded with a hurricane... |
| [21:01:11] | Chromag9 (Chromag9!~Chromag9@rrcs-24-227-81-86.se.biz.rr.com) has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!) | |
| [21:01:18] | Beirdo: | as long as the power's back on, yer good |
| [21:01:22] | sphery: | wagnerrp: was figuring over the US so it takes out a broader range... Sheesh... Didn't you learn anything from (the short-lived) Jericho? |
| [21:01:27] | tgm4883: | sphery, the 1.5TB drive was my only recording drive |
| [21:01:35] | tgm4883: | luckily, all of my videos are on a nas box |
| [21:01:44] | sphery: | oh, bad that she lost more than you |
| [21:01:50] | wagnerrp: | sphery: a nuke only makes a difference at high altitude because it does not actually generate a pulse |
| [21:01:52] | tgm4883: | yea |
| [21:02:09] | wagnerrp: | it generates a ton of gamma radiation, which interacts with the upper atmosphere to produce an EMP |
| [21:02:13] | sphery: | wagnerrp: but ground-level EMP isn't too useful for propogation |
| [21:02:29] | Beirdo: | it is if connected to the power grid |
| [21:03:01] | sphery: | not another black van... |
| [21:03:09] | KjetilK: | reposting question, since it got a bit late the other day: does 0.23 support player and playerargs tags in mythnetvision? |
| [21:03:27] | sphery: | why do they always seem to park on the other side of the street... Wonder who they're visiting |
| [21:03:42] | Beirdo: | sphery: they are watching you. behave |
| [21:03:46] | Beirdo: | or moon them |
| [21:03:47] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [21:03:54] | sphery: | heh |
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| [21:04:31] | ** sphery would like to answer KjetilK but he doesn't even know enough of MNV to understand the question ** | |
| [21:04:42] | KjetilK: | :-) |
| [21:04:42] | ** Beirdo neither ** | |
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| [21:05:22] | sphery: | KjetilK: is that a theming question or usage question? |
| [21:05:53] | RDV_Linux: | KjetilK: iamlindoro would have the definitive answer but I believe that those features have not yet been implemented even in trunk. |
| [21:06:03] | KjetilK: | RDV_Linux, oh, ok |
| [21:06:45] | RDV_Linux: | KjetilK: They are there for the future, maybe 0.25 |
| [21:07:00] | KjetilK: | sphery, usage question, since I'm not getting some streams I want to play natively in MythNetvision, but they play fine in vlc, it would have been nice to have it just start vlc |
| [21:07:16] | KjetilK: | RDV_Linux, OK |
| [21:07:21] | sphery: | ahhh |
| [21:08:42] | high-rez: | Hmm, this new apple tv seems even more useless (for myth). |
| [21:08:56] | KjetilK: | soooo, do I have any other options in 0.23 to get a stream playing directly? |
| [21:09:24] | RDV_Linux: | KjetilK: I think the next priority with with a non-flash player is to to add a ring-buffer and use the MythTV internal player. I may have some of the wording wrong but that is the essential idea. |
| [21:10:02] | KjetilK: | mmmm, it doesn't mean too much to me :-) |
| [21:10:42] | wagnerrp: | RDV_Linux, KjetilK: that was probably waiting on the backend download extensions |
| [21:10:55] | sphery: | high-rez: yes, A4 (underpowered), 720p max (no 1080i/1080p playback) |
| [21:11:08] | sphery: | it's garbage... Mac Mini, however, is a different story |
| [21:11:16] | RDV_Linux: | KjetilK: Not that I can think of unless you do something wild with a customized Web page. In my Ubuntu install I can get the MythBrowser to play some videos using the totem plugin. |
| [21:11:23] | tgm4883: | sphery, but it has an apple on the side? |
| [21:11:29] | sphery: | oh, yeah |
| [21:11:31] | tgm4883: | surely that fixes any underpowered hardware |
| [21:11:32] | sphery: | and /cloud/ storage! |
| [21:11:49] | sphery: | only problem is it can't do "high-rez" playback |
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| [21:12:01] | Beirdo: | that's not the only problem |
| [21:12:12] | KjetilK: | RDV_Linux, hmmm, actually, I haven't tried mythbrowser on it |
| [21:12:16] | Beirdo: | it runs in Apple's favorite mode.... iLocked |
| [21:12:18] | KjetilK: | I'll try that |
| [21:12:18] | sphery: | heh, true |
| [21:12:19] | tgm4883: | chairman steve says you don't want to watch high-rez |
| [21:12:38] | Beirdo: | it's great if it fills your needs, but for now at least, not much use for mythtv |
| [21:12:58] | sphery: | yeah... |
| [21:13:00] | cdpuk (cdpuk!~chris@91.84.144.76) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | |
| [21:13:11] | sphery: | though it did help us to get an Apple-religion war going on the users list |
| [21:13:15] | ** Beirdo tweaks max connections on his mysql on the linode... to reduce memory use a touch ** | |
| [21:13:16] | ** KjetilK is looking forward to the day where he can get a screen with built-in ARM to play 1080i powered only with Power over Ethernet ** | |
| [21:13:46] | Beirdo: | and turned on slow query logging too |
| [21:13:48] | wagnerrp: | KjetilK: thats a small screen |
| [21:13:56] | skd5aner: | Thought I might do a little dabling in thetvdb.org and they have a spot for tms/zap2it series id |
| [21:14:07] | ** Beirdo gives the bot the evil eye... you WILL be more efficient! ** | |
| [21:14:07] | skd5aner: | but I don't want to use the frontend to figure it out |
| [21:14:18] | KjetilK: | wagnerrp, yeah, for now at least |
| [21:14:23] | sphery: | KjetilK: only if it allows running custom code instead of this--as Beirdo says--iLocked stuff |
| [21:14:26] | KjetilK: | OLEDs could change that |
| [21:14:39] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: what exactly are you looking to do? |
| [21:14:42] | KjetilK: | sphery, yup |
| [21:14:42] | Beirdo: | it won't stay locked forever, I'm sure |
| [21:15:12] | wagnerrp: | i could whip up a bit of python that could probably do what youre looking for |
| [21:15:14] | skd5aner: | exactly as I stated |
| [21:15:19] | KjetilK: | around here at least, CI+ seems to be a significant threat to any non-locked stuff too |
| [21:15:28] | skd5aner: | given a show (which I have recorded) look up the series id easily :) |
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| [21:15:30] | wagnerrp: | i mean what information do you need? |
| [21:15:39] | sphery: | KjetilK: did you wake up from the cryogenic sleep they put you in back in 1995? (or is OLED the answer to all our video needs, yet again? :) |
| [21:15:55] | skd5aner: | Just seriesid, so I can enter it into thetvdb.org. Most don't have it entered |
| [21:15:59] | sphery: | s/answer/near-future answer/ |
| [21:16:10] | KjetilK: | heh |
| [21:16:18] | RDV_Linux: | KjetilK: Be warned that the totem plugin will abort on some videos and also the video link must be of low enough banwidth to match your connection otherwise you get too many pauses while buffering occurs. |
| [21:16:18] | sphery: | skd5aner: ttbomk, the TMS seriesid is proprietary and copyrighted |
| [21:16:21] | Beirdo: | [OK] Temporary tables created on disk: 7% (4K on disk / 56K total) |
| [21:16:24] | Beirdo: | nice |
| [21:16:36] | Beirdo: | my myth db is fairly happy compared to before |
| [21:16:39] | skd5aner: | might be useful for metadata retrieval with name mismatches... I'm looking at why several of my shows don't pull data from thetvdb.org and it's because of the name-mismatch... |
| [21:16:44] | sphery: | skd5aner: you need the program.syndicatedepisodenumber |
| [21:16:51] | marc_us: | Since someone mentioned replay tv earlier.... Anyone remember sharing shows? |
| [21:16:55] | sphery: | skd5aner: as posting TMS seriesid is a violation of ToS |
| [21:16:59] | skd5aner: | not sure if the API would allow lookup against seriesid, but that would be a LOT more helpful |
| [21:17:01] | KjetilK: | RDV_Linux, ok :-) Surely I will come back and ask if that's happening :-) |
| [21:17:06] | sphery: | skd5aner: and not at all useful except to TMS users |
| [21:17:28] | sphery: | and program.syndicatedepisodenumber is not posted in MythWeb, anywhere, ttbomk |
| [21:18:09] | RDV_Linux: | KjetilK: I would not be able to do anything to help if you did just be glad that you have a small alternative before a better solution is available. |
| [21:18:12] | KjetilK: | sphery, what other technologies are there that can give me a decently sized screen needing less than 14 W |
| [21:18:21] | Beirdo: | I'm getting 18 queries per second on my mythtv db? |
| [21:18:22] | Beirdo: | wow |
| [21:18:23] | skd5aner: | well... someone needs to reach out thetvdb.org folks, because they have 3 entries under their general series info: TV.com ID, IMDB.com ID, and Zap2it / SchedulesDirect ID |
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| [21:18:34] | sphery: | skd5aner: I stand corrected, syndicatedepisodenumber is posted on the detail in MythWeb |
| [21:18:38] | skd5aner: | "This field MUST correspond to the Zap2It ID, include the leading "SH"." |
| [21:18:42] | KjetilK: | RDV_Linux, oh, absolutely, it wasn't intended that way |
| [21:18:46] | skd5aner: | yea, epnumber is easy to find :) |
| [21:19:09] | KjetilK: | after all, all I'm trying to do is to get back my daughter's favorite TV show... |
| [21:19:19] | sphery: | skd5aner: think someone needs to fix that... let me ask some of the SD guys |
| [21:19:30] | skd5aner: | sphery: yea, better find out... |
| [21:19:41] | sphery: | unfortunately, the main point of contact is traveling for a week starting about an hour ago |
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| [21:20:13] | skd5aner: | but it would be useful... right now jamu retrieve metadata based on series name. However, the name in thetvdb.org sometimes (frequently enough) doesn't match or there are duplicates... |
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| [21:20:54] | skd5aner: | if a seriesid is matched, then it would eliminate those problems – that is, if it was implemented in the metadata retrieval tools like jamu :) |
| [21:20:56] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: how about something like http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1931401 |
| [21:21:17] | sphery: | skd5aner: where do I find that on tvdb? |
| [21:21:33] | sphery: | skd5aner: the syndicatedepisodenumber would work just as well--and would work for non-NA users, too |
| [21:21:52] | skd5aner: | sphery: do you have an account? |
| [21:21:58] | sphery: | well, as a series id, maybe not |
| [21:21:59] | sphery: | yeah, I do |
| [21:22:06] | skd5aner: | log in and go to any show... |
| [21:22:14] | skd5aner: | then below "information" click "show/hide" edit |
| [21:22:19] | skd5aner: | then look near the bottom of the edit box |
| [21:22:25] | sphery: | skd5aner: thanks |
| [21:22:27] | sphery: | got it |
| [21:22:30] | RDV_Linux: | skd5aner: I assume you that through a jamu.conf file you can set up show titles and their TTVDB reference numbers. Check the wiki for "overrides" |
| [21:22:33] | skd5aner: | it doesn't display on the main page |
| [21:22:54] | skd5aner: | RDV_Linux: yup, I understand... but I'm talking about something potentially better than manual overides :) |
| [21:22:56] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: actually, this would be more what youre looking for... http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1931403 |
| [21:23:06] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: cool, let me try in a second |
| [21:23:18] | skd5aner: | love your pythonfu skills ;) |
| [21:23:55] | wagnerrp: | just lets you go through and print out all the data for each recording |
| [21:24:07] | wagnerrp: | hit <enter> to cycle through |
| [21:24:18] | wagnerrp: | or if you want, i can strip some code out of something ive got on the wiki |
| [21:24:31] | wagnerrp: | and add some options for searching |
| [21:24:37] | skd5aner: | RDV_Linux: right now, jamu leverages series names to lookup recordings right? The issue with that is when people enter the series name different than the schedule provider (i.e., Schedules Direct Series name doesn't match what is listed within TheTVDB.org) |
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| [21:26:20] | GrahamIRC: | Just rooted my HTC HD2 which is now running Android and flash so can watch recordings through mythweb :-D |
| [21:26:20] | GrahamIRC: | simple things make me smile :-D |
| [21:26:20] | skd5aner: | RDV_Linux: so... 2 things can happen – duplicates can pull back the wrong show and title mismatches get missed entirely |
| [21:26:20] | skd5aner: | however, if the unique identifier of the seriesid attribute could be leveraged instead of (or in addition to) series name/title, then it would solve both of those problems |
| [21:26:20] | skd5aner: | TheTVDB has an option to enter the Zap2It/Schedules Direct series ID |
| [21:26:20] | RDV_Linux: | skd5aner: That is what the jamu.conf overrides section is suppose to address. Such as "Castle" and "Castle (2009)" which are both on TTVDB. |
| [21:26:20] | skd5aner: | which, most North American users would have for anything they've recorded |
| [21:26:23] | Beirdo: | note to self... optimize table on beirdobot.irclog... BAD plan |
| [21:26:34] | Beirdo: | took... 10 min |
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| [21:27:10] | skd5aner: | right, butit's completely a manual process... and it's based on TheTVDB ID, not a common attribute like series ID... My scheduling data and recordings don't know what a TTVDB ID is unless I manually enter it into that file |
| [21:27:47] | Beirdo: | !seen mchou |
| [21:27:47] | MythLogBot: | mchou was last seen 185 days 2 hours 58 minutes 48 seconds ago |
| [21:28:05] | RDV_Linux: | skd5aner: No argument it is manual but at least for my own usage I do not to add that many so it has not been an issue. |
| [21:28:07] | Beirdo: | half a year :) |
| [21:28:15] | skd5aner: | RDV_Linux: I'm not asking how to solve it for today's scenario, I'm just looking at the fact that TheTVDB.org has a field currently, where a schedules direct series ID can be entered... if that's exposed to the API, and the data's there, why not resolve these problems automatically versus manually entering the ttvdb id in the .conf file? |
| [21:29:04] | skd5aner: | I've got probably a > dozen recordings where goofballs have listed the name differently in ttvdb than what the series name is... and you can't edit the name of a series in ttvdb, only admins/mods can do that... |
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| [21:29:48] | Beirdo: | I don't understand why some of these queries are in the slow log |
| [21:29:59] | skd5aner: | For example "Barbecue University with Steve Raichlen" – that's the name schedules direct provides, and based on what I see, that's the correct name. However, TheTVDB just lists it as "Barbacue University" so I don't receive anything... |
| [21:30:07] | Beirdo: | # Query_time: 0.000356 Lock_time: 0.000060 Rows_sent: 30 Rows_examined: 30 |
| [21:30:13] | Beirdo: | what's so slow about that? |
| [21:30:26] | RDV_Linux: | skd5aner: Interesting idea. Does enough of the Schedule Direct series ids match those on TTVDB? I may late to this conversation so forgive me. |
| [21:30:30] | skd5aner: | RDV_Linux: I just figured it'd solve those 2 problems with 0 intervention if the seriesid could be leveraged |
| [21:30:51] | skd5aner: | RDV_Linux: I think the issue would not be if they match, but if they're populated |
| [21:31:19] | skd5aner: | RDV_Linux: many shows do not have that populated, but I'm considering going to the many that I have an adding them |
| [21:31:57] | skd5aner: | RDV_Linux: If it doesn't have it populated, then process like it does today (no change), but if seriesID is populated in ttvdb, then bingo – 100% assurance of a match :) |
| [21:32:04] | Beirdo: | kormoc`: you around? |
| [21:32:19] | skd5aner: | well, close to it I would assume unless people somehow entered it wrong |
| [21:33:33] | skd5aner: | That being said, I know 0 about the API, so not sure if you can search by the zap2it/schedules direct ID... but would be cool if you could |
| [21:34:28] | RDV_Linux: | skd5aner: ok I understand. At least in Jamu I do not think that adding a check for seriesid would be too difficult. I feel it is likely that in 0.25 the need for Jamu will be eliminated. Some Jamu features have already been replicated in trunk. I would suggest that you mention your idea to iamlindoro for his consideration. |
| [21:35:50] | skd5aner: | yup, understood... I'll try to remember to bring it up next time he's online :) |
| [21:36:40] | skd5aner: | RDV_Linux: anyway, was just some thought for your consideration... since a large number of mythtv users will get seriesid with their data, using it to locate metadata on sites that are aware of that idea makes some sense (if those sites get populated with the ID) |
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| [21:37:03] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v iamlindoro | |
| [21:37:07] | skd5aner: | sphery: do you mind tracking down info on if it's an issue to repost the tms series id |
| [21:37:10] | iamlindoro: | Didn't we talk about it earlier? |
| [21:37:16] | sphery: | RDV_Linux: before going too far, though, might want to check danielk's response to my question in #mythtv and see what comes of it... we may need to get you to exert your considerable leverage to try to convince them to find a better way--- or iamlindoro now that he's back |
| [21:37:19] | iamlindoro: | It is copyrighted data |
| [21:37:25] | skd5aner: | lol, iamlindoro's back :) |
| [21:37:50] | skd5aner: | heh, I was just chatting with RDV_Linux about some metadata retrieval thoughts – wanted to run it by you too |
| [21:37:56] | iamlindoro: | We can't do much with it because them having it is them possessing copyrighted data |
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| [21:38:31] | iamlindoro: | And as I mentioned earlier, the user will be able to select which show it is from a list for .25 |
| [21:38:50] | sphery: | I just have to wonder how iamlindoro could hear us before he was here... |
| [21:38:52] | iamlindoro: | So seriesid isn't necessary-- and we're not going to match artwork to shows automatically, it's something you will set up when you set up a recording rule |
| [21:38:54] | skd5aner: | iamlindoro: I was just fiddling around in TheTVDB.com, and noticed when editing series info they have the ability to add a "Zap2it / SchedulesDirect ID" |
| [21:39:01] | sphery: | he has a powerful spidey sense |
| [21:39:03] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: Way ahead of you, see my responses above |
| [21:39:19] | iamlindoro: | We're not going to/can't use TMSid |
| [21:39:26] | Beirdo: | his ears are burning :) |
| [21:39:45] | Beirdo: | urgh |
| [21:39:51] | iamlindoro: | But we can/will allow the user to associate a recording rule with a tvdb ID, and select the artwork they want to display |
| [21:39:53] | Beirdo: | mythexport... why?! |
| [21:40:01] | sphery: | iamlindoro: think we can get tvdb to fix their site to not use it so the site isn't put at risk? |
| [21:40:13] | skd5aner: | alright, it sounds like it is what it is... and thetvdb.com probably needs to remove the ability for users to enter that attribute? |
| [21:40:29] | iamlindoro: | sphery: Would probably mean more coming from TMS themselves, or at elast SchedulesDirect officially |
| [21:40:45] | sphery: | iamlindoro: i.e. they can create their own unique identifier--and, in the hackiest, still-not-kosher approach--could have some script people redistribute themselves that maps tms id to tvdb id |
| [21:41:29] | Beirdo: | they should use an MD5 of the TMS ID and not tell people that is what it is |
| [21:41:45] | skd5aner: | iamlindoro, sphery: well... would something like what we do with the channel icons make sense? a webservice which allows people to submit their ttvdb matches and on the mythside do the mapping? |
| [21:41:49] | sphery: | iamlindoro: understood... I mentioned it to xris (and danielk saw it) in #mythtv... since you know tvdb best, you may want to let them know what you think would be the best way to fix it |
| [21:42:00] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: The end result is that it won't really be necessary anyway-- you will set up a recording rule for "Undercovers," be presented with a list of possible matches, select the correct one, select the fanart you like from all of them, select the banner, select the coverart, and then all of that will be downloaded and ready to go, plus the TVDB ID added to the recording rule |
| [21:42:11] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: Why? |
| [21:42:20] | iamlindoro: | It would be a whole bunch of work for no tangible gain |
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| [21:42:25] | skd5aner: | ease and automation I guess? |
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| [21:42:28] | iamlindoro: | see above for how it will work |
| [21:42:29] | sphery: | skd5aner: that might possibly be allowed--especially if it were a service from SD... though it seems not so necessary |
| [21:42:36] | Beirdo: | iamlindoro: that sounds cool... Hope it works in mythweb too :) |
| [21:42:37] | sphery: | (based on what I'm now hearing :) |
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| [21:42:58] | iamlindoro: | We don't *want* the artwork/association to be automatic-- too much chance for false positives-- ie, it would just be guessing like Jamu does now |
| [21:43:06] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [21:43:17] | sphery: | I'm a big fan of not reading minds in code |
| [21:43:19] | iamlindoro: | But if you just get a prompt when you set up a recording rule, pick the right one, select the artwork you like, etc., then you *know* it is correct |
| [21:43:41] | Beirdo: | and if it's wrong... it's your own fault for choosing it |
| [21:43:49] | iamlindoro: | Plus, we can have the new metadata code go out at the end of each recording, get the season and episode number, add those to our metadata in recordings, etc. |
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| [21:44:01] | iamlindoro: | And when the season increments, automatically get new season artwork, etc. |
| [21:44:26] | skd5aner: | I just figured if 10 people said "The Office" is this ttvdb id, and then submitted back to a mythtv web service what the series number was, then mappings with a bit of assurance could be presented back automatically... |
| [21:44:38] | skd5aner: | but to your point... then users wouldn't get to "pick" the artwokr they wanted |
| [21:44:45] | skd5aner: | so, wouldn't make as much sense |
| [21:44:55] | skd5aner: | ah, just brainstorming on the fly here |
| [21:45:11] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: Yeah, but what about the UK users who submit "The Office" as ttvdb ID #2? |
| [21:45:26] | sphery: | agreed! TMS ID is not universal!\ |
| [21:45:28] | iamlindoro: | or US users who are watching "The Office" on BBC America? |
| [21:45:40] | skd5aner: | well, it would have a different TMS series ID right? |
| [21:45:54] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: Different copyrighted string only usful in North America? Yes. |
| [21:46:04] | skd5aner: | yes, correct... only useful in NA |
| [21:46:05] | sphery: | but UK users don't have that copyrighted string |
| [21:46:16] | sphery: | I'm always the slowest |
| [21:46:34] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: The point is that I would submit "The office" as tmsid 12345, and gbee would submit "The office" as 67890... who is right? |
| [21:47:08] | iamlindoro: | We both are-- but the data is garbage |
| [21:47:45] | iamlindoro: | And it all comes back to, "The key string is copyrighted and only useful in one region" anyway |
| [21:48:00] | skd5aner: | well... It would be the mapping right? so "The office" get's selected, and user in US says that's ttvid #1234 and aligns to whatever series ID they had... the myth services maps the two, but since the folks in the UK don't have tms id, it couldn't be automated for them |
| [21:48:23] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: *copyrighted string* |
| [21:48:26] | skd5aner: | but, if I was watching the british series in the US, it would have a different tms series ID, and the mapping would be different to the other ttvid for the british series |
| [21:48:28] | iamlindoro: | we cannot, and will not, ever use it |
| [21:48:38] | iamlindoro: | not in any private or public mapping |
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| [21:49:02] | iamlindoro: | Because it would be a violation of copyright for them to submit the TMS id to the service, and for us to use that data as the key/retain the data |
| [21:49:12] | skd5aner: | iamlindoro: why couldn't paying members of SD leverage a service that SD provides? |
| [21:49:16] | skd5aner: | would that be a copyright issue? |
| [21:49:28] | skd5aner: | I'm not arguing one way or the other, just talking it through |
| [21:49:33] | iamlindoro: | skd5aner: because SD is not licensed to retain the data, nor to use it for any purpose |
| [21:49:42] | skd5aner: | just pass it along? |
| [21:49:43] | iamlindoro: | SD sells access to *tms* servers |
| [21:49:55] | iamlindoro: | they do not retain the data, nor are they allowed to build services atop it |
| [21:50:04] | skd5aner: | well, then I'm starting to see the problem a bit more clearly now |
| [21:51:14] | skd5aner: | anyway, I only brought this up because I saw that thetvdb.com offered it as an editable attribute |
| [21:51:42] | skd5aner: | If it was usable, thought it could help, but since it shouldn't even be out there, I guess the point is moot |
| [21:52:22] | iamlindoro: | Yes, it's a good idea, and if it were possible to lawfully use it, we would already do so |
| [21:52:37] | iamlindoro: | RDV_Linux and I discussed it when I wrote the spec for the new metadata format |
| [21:52:48] | iamlindoro: | And I considered using it but ultimately came up against this same wall |
| [21:53:23] | RDV_Linux: | skd5aner: See iamlindoro knows best ;) |
| [21:54:16] | iamlindoro: | That said, since each recording rule will take about five extra seconds while it queries the closest matches, and has the added bonus of allowing one to pick the artwork they like (like one now can in MythVideo) and of storing the TMDB/TVDB id (an "open" key), I think people will be pretty happy with the result |
| [21:54:20] | skd5aner: | good deal – just started getting my hands dirty with editing/entering shows... so just came across it |
| [21:54:42] | skd5aner: | (in thetvdb.com |
| [21:54:43] | skd5aner: | ) |
| [21:55:17] | skd5aner: | I was going to start entering the ID on the shows I was editing/adding, but obviously won't do so now... yay, less effort! |
| [21:55:57] | skd5aner: | Actually, I did just find it on one show "SportCenter" where it was already populated – I removed it. |
| [21:55:59] | sphery: | skd5aner: yeah, what I didn't say about the SD-hosted thing was that it would require their getting approval (and possibly paying) to do so |
| [21:56:34] | skd5aner: | well, yea – but this has all been theorertical anyway ;) |
| [21:56:40] | skd5aner: | alright ... dinner is getting cold later |
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| [21:56:55] | sphery: | and, I for one am actually glad you mentioned that because I want tvdb to succeed, so I want to get the issue fixed |
| [21:57:19] | Beirdo: | !trout tvdb infringement |
| [21:57:19] | ** MythLogBot slaps tvdb with a infringement trout on behalf of Beirdo... ** | |
| [21:57:20] | sphery: | they can create their own mapping of unique identifiers for shows--and make them usable universally--and all will be well |
| [21:57:54] | skd5aner: | heh, it'd be cool if TMS provided a tmdb/ttvdb id with their data ;) |
| [21:57:57] | Beirdo: | we don't want them to get shut down :) |
| [22:00:09] | sphery: | skd5aner: yeah, that would be nice... that could also be possible in the future if SD ever finds the dev they need to do the development of the server code so SD can provide value-added services |
| [22:00:23] | sphery: | don't know if they're still looking to do that or if they've given up on the plan |
| [22:02:44] | ** Beirdo scratches his head ** | |
| [22:03:55] | sphery: | so how many other people got an itch on their heads after reading that? |
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| [22:53:30] | kormoc`: | Beirdo, pong |
| [22:53:36] | kormoc` is now known as kormoc | |
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| [22:53:43] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc | |
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| [22:55:19] | Beirdo: | heya |
| [22:55:28] | Beirdo: | I'm just looking at my slow_query log |
| [22:55:47] | Beirdo: | I figured out why some <2s were in there... I have the not-using-index ones in there too |
| [22:56:20] | kormoc: | Ahh |
| [22:56:25] | Beirdo: | I was going to ask you if you had any clue why they'd be there, but then remembered that was on :) |
| [22:56:49] | Beirdo: | 1.7s to find out who was in the channel in some arbitrary 15min period, BTW |
| [22:57:29] | Beirdo: | Using where; Using index; Using temporary; Using filesort |
| [22:57:31] | Beirdo: | ick |
| [22:58:38] | Beirdo: | http://mythtv.pastebin.com/HtTh7RNj if ya wanna see the query (with explain) |
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| [22:59:36] | kormoc: | what's histtype mean? |
| [23:00:01] | Beirdo: | I'll have to look at the code again, but 2 is leaving the channel, I think |
| [23:00:16] | Beirdo: | it's whether they join/leave/etc |
| [23:00:53] | kormoc: | index on chanid, timestamp, nick, histtype ? |
| [23:01:47] | Beirdo: | chan, histType, timestamp, nick |
| [23:02:01] | Beirdo: | not sure if the order's important, but if it is, I could tweak :) |
| [23:02:22] | kormoc: | so where's the actual explain output? |
| [23:02:37] | Beirdo: | 0 is initial mark (i.e. they were in the channel), 1 is join, 2 is leave |
| [23:03:01] | Beirdo: | sorry |
| [23:03:15] | Beirdo: | there. http://mythtv.pastebin.com/kgf2SW5k |
| [23:03:38] | Beirdo: | from phpmyadmin, but it should get you the info, although a wee bit tough to read |
| [23:03:46] | kormoc: | and primary is the chan, histType, timestamp, nick index? |
| [23:03:55] | Beirdo: | yup |
| [23:04:25] | Beirdo: | chanid more specifically, that was a typo |
| [23:04:30] | kormoc: | Okay, so for some reason, it's actually not using the index |
| [23:04:36] | kormoc: | key_len of NULL is bad |
| [23:04:42] | kormoc: | what version of mysql? |
| [23:04:50] | Beirdo: | that's ref of NULL\ |
| [23:04:55] | Beirdo: | keylen 78 |
| [23:04:57] | kormoc: | ahh |
| [23:05:00] | kormoc: | silly formatting |
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| [23:05:19] | Beirdo: | 5.1.41–3ubuntu12.3 |
| [23:05:51] | Beirdo: | yeah, formatting pasting from HTML tables... is crap |
| [23:06:26] | kormoc: | so the histtype where condition is meaningless? |
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| [23:07:02] | Beirdo: | there is a -1 and -2 as well |
| [23:07:54] | Beirdo: | which is when the bot enters and leaves the channel, I think (it's been a while) |
| [23:08:08] | kormoc: | I'd try ALTER TABLE nickhistory ADD INDEX (chanid, TIMESTAMP, histType, nick); |
| [23:08:14] | kormoc: | it should give a much better earlier filter pass |
| [23:09:33] | Beirdo: | one moment. |
| [23:10:07] | Beirdo: | I could potentially change the order of PRIMARY to that if this ehelps |
| [23:10:25] | Beirdo: | waiting for it to build the index (nearly a million rows) |
| [23:10:27] | Beirdo: | there it goes |
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| [23:10:46] | Beirdo: | cut rows down to 7695 |
| [23:11:14] | kormoc: | basically the first range operator prevents the rest of the index from being used |
| [23:11:23] | kormoc: | timestamp was a more limiting range then histtype |
| [23:11:37] | Beirdo: | right |
| [23:12:09] | kormoc: | I'm assuming that sped it up a bit? |
| [23:12:10] | Beirdo: | it's a bit of a messy query |
| [23:12:27] | Beirdo: | said 2s |
| [23:12:39] | kormoc: | explain about the same? |
| [23:12:41] | Beirdo: | and of course, if I try again... 100us |
| [23:12:48] | Beirdo: | yeah about the seam |
| [23:12:52] | Beirdo: | same |
| [23:13:01] | Beirdo: | holy crap, I'm having typing fail today |
| [23:13:15] | Beirdo: | key len is 4 |
| [23:13:25] | Beirdo: | ref constant |
| [23:13:29] | Beirdo: | rows 7695 |
| [23:13:33] | kormoc: | interesting that the key len went down so far |
| [23:13:36] | Beirdo: | so it's a lot more specific |
| [23:13:44] | kormoc: | SHOW CREATE TABLE nickhistory |
| [23:14:59] | Beirdo: | http://mythtv.pastebin.com/sz79EbLP |
| [23:15:33] | kormoc: | is there only one chanid? |
| [23:15:43] | draioch (draioch!~draioch@109.76.127.174) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:15:46] | Beirdo: | nah, there's 5 channels in the db |
| [23:15:57] | kormoc: | interesting |
| [23:16:00] | Beirdo: | if that's what you meant. :) |
| [23:16:03] | kormoc: | keylen should be 8 |
| [23:16:10] | Beirdo: | this channel here is chanid = 1 |
| [23:16:10] | kormoc: | 4 says it only used chanid |
| [23:17:17] | kormoc: | try AND TIMESTAMP BETWEEN '1248144746' AND '1255233599' |
| [23:17:23] | kormoc: | see if that's any different |
| [23:17:32] | kormoc: | (shouldn't be, you have index_merge but...) |
| [23:17:58] | Beirdo: | same |
| [23:18:03] | kormoc: | I'm expecting to see a index type of range |
| [23:18:05] | kormoc: | bah |
| [23:18:10] | kormoc: | that's extremely weird |
| [23:18:54] | Beirdo: | yeah, it's bein strange |
| [23:20:11] | kormoc: | well, for this query, you only need WHERE histType > 0 |
| [23:20:19] | kormoc: | try that and see if it cuts things down at all |
| [23:20:43] | kormoc: | oh wait, you do care if they talked |
| [23:21:00] | Beirdo: | yeah... sigh |
| [23:21:06] | Beirdo: | and it didn't change it |
| [23:22:48] | Beirdo: | gonna try something |
| [23:23:07] | Beirdo: | create an index on timestamp alone, maybe it will like me more? |
| [23:23:09] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [23:23:16] | Beirdo: | can always delete it |
| [23:23:53] | kormoc: | yeah, worth a go |
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| [23:24:08] | Beirdo: | oooh, still using PRIMARY |
| [23:24:13] | gizmobay: | I came home and my PC won't start. No power. I jumped the power supply and it kicks on. I noticed my PC fan turned but not my CPU fan. Doesn't the CPU have a direct power connect so shouldn't this spin once I jump the PSU? Would the CPU fan dying prevent the whole PC from turning on? |
| [23:24:17] | Beirdo: | let me change the order in primary |
| [23:24:27] | kormoc: | actually |
| [23:24:46] | kormoc: | change primary to chanid, timestamp, nick, histType |
| [23:25:02] | kormoc: | hopefully the group-by can use the index |
| [23:25:26] | Beirdo: | waiting for it ... :) |
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| [23:26:39] | Beirdo: | I'm sure my linode will be sending me a disk I/O email soon :) |
| [23:26:39] | Beirdo: | like I care |
| [23:26:53] | Beirdo: | there we go |
| [23:27:11] | Beirdo: | type range, key_len 8, 28458 rows, ref null |
| [23:27:56] | Beirdo: | muuuch better |
| [23:27:58] | kormoc: | speed? |
| [23:27:58] | Beirdo: | 156ms |
| [23:28:02] | kormoc: | nice |
| [23:28:21] | Beirdo: | let me put that back to <= and >= |
| [23:29:02] | Beirdo: | 159ms |
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| [23:29:22] | Beirdo: | OK, looks like I have a query in the web frontend to fix. Thanks :) |
| [23:29:38] | Beirdo: | that was (so far) the worst offender |
| [23:29:41] | kormoc: | np |
| [23:30:48] | Beirdo: | actually, the only thing I changed was select * -> select nick |
| [23:30:58] | Beirdo: | not worth it, it's just as fast with the * |
| [23:34:04] | Beirdo: | tweaking indexes can certainly make a world of difference |
| [23:38:02] | Beirdo: | hehe, tweaking one on irclog table (7M rows or so) |
| [23:38:05] | Beirdo: | still going. |
| [23:58:15] | wagnerrp: | well that upgrade was surprisingly painless |
| [23:58:26] | Beirdo: | cool |
| [23:58:41] | wagnerrp: | well see what happens in a few minutes when it tries to record |
| [23:59:20] | wagnerrp: | livetv worked fine though |
| [23:59:53] | Beirdo: | this on your freebsd setup? |
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