Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Sunday, August 29th, 2010, 00:07 UTC

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phil___:

hiho

[00:18:59]

phil___:

is it possible to specify an alsa device as input to the tv sound?

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[00:24:10]

wagnerrp:

input? you mean for a capture card?

[00:28:23]

phil___:

yes

[00:30:06]

phil___:

as you probably know my sound setup is quite complicated, i plan to create an alsa device for it which encodes AC3 signal with right and left on left and rear left

[00:30:39]

wagnerrp:

that makes no sense...

[00:30:54]

wagnerrp:

and beside, mythtv probably requires any audio input from framegrabbers to be raw

[00:30:55]

phil___:

it does, you just don't know about the setup

[00:31:10]

high-rez:

*blink*

[00:31:49]

high-rez:

Perhaps you should describe your setup ?

[00:32:14]

phil___:

i don't know what it's about those people who more or less pretend to help but in general give an answer like: you idiot

[00:32:19]

phil___:

what's it about

[00:33:04]

phil___:

sorry, didn't meant it that hard

[00:33:29]

phil___:

this channel is ok compared to many others, was just a general complain...

[00:33:33]

phil___:

sorry wagnerrp

[00:33:48]

wagnerrp:

im not trying to be derogatory, merely indicating that the audio capture in mythtv is designed for framegrabbers, which provide raw audio

[00:34:00]

wagnerrp:

mythtv will probably gag if you feed it AC3 through that mechanism

[00:34:58]

wagnerrp:

it likely will not handle more than 2-channel audio either

[00:35:09]

phil___:

i could also create another output device which does the reencoding

[00:35:36]

phil___:

then myth sees just the 2 channels and passes them on to alsa, which does the rest of it

[00:36:01]

phil___:

if this is doable through alsa, but i think it is

[00:36:17]

wagnerrp:

you could run a userjob which demuxes the video, recompresses and remixes the audio, and muxes it back together

[00:36:34]

wagnerrp:

wont allow for livetv, but it will probably be a simpler solution

[00:37:07]

high-rez:

I still don't get the purpose. :)

[00:37:23]

phil___:

yes, alsa rerouting, plugins are sort of documented but need a big dive into it to get working for me

[00:37:31]

wagnerrp:

hes trying to switch between two different 'audio zones'

[00:37:42]

high-rez:

Ahh

[00:37:47]

wagnerrp:

without using a receiver that actually does audio zones

[00:38:00]

phil___:

got LCD and Projector with 5.1 in the same root

[00:38:05]

phil___:

s/root/room

[00:38:42]

phil___:

my receiver does audio zones, but i don't use it for that purpose

[00:39:00]

** high-rez *hearts* his receiver **

[00:39:10]

phil___:

i couldn't actually because it depends of the signal it gets, and thats got to change

[00:40:12]

phil___:

forcing me back to create some mechanism to feed the right signal

[00:41:10]

phil___:

or is there some receiver capable of making your left front the right speaker, the left rear the left speaker?

[00:41:19]

phil___:

don't think so

[00:41:58]

wagnerrp:

no, but you have a 7.1 setup that you can partition to 5.1 and 2.0

[00:42:01]

phil___:

encoding this in AC3 is perhaps a overdo in terms of time to fiddle with it, but there's no other option

[00:42:16]

wagnerrp:

and you can flip output between the two zones

[00:42:39]

phil___:

yes, this is already done and working fine, thanks to your help too

[00:43:13]

phil___:

this time i want to have the 2.0 setup with bass on 2 speakers of the receiver

[00:43:41]

phil___:

and the 2 speakers are not native left/right but left front and left rear

[00:44:09]

phil___:

so i figured out encoding an AC3 signal from the stereo this way can do the trick

[00:44:56]

phil___:

for stereo now, my alsa device duplicates the sound to analog (the monitor) and digital (receiver)

[00:45:34]

phil___:

i want to change it to analog on monitor + 2 speakers from receiver with an encoded AC3 mixed for just this purpose

[00:46:58]

phil___:

so the myth part seems to be just take the 2 channel and pass it on to specified alsa device

[00:48:12]

phil___:

so i'll try to further enhance the duplication thingie to stereo + 5.1 mixed in just this way

[00:50:08]

phil___:

introducing low/high pass filters is something which is left to the very end of the project

[00:50:15]

phil___:

but this is an easy part

[00:51:16]

phil___:

the difficult thing will be if it's entirely possible to have spdif direct output + analog on the same soundcard

[00:51:36]

phil___:

as far as i've read by now, this is not possible

[00:52:10]

phil___:

dunno if mixing the AC3 by hand enables that behaviour

[00:52:36]

phil___:

ehmm.. am i doing a monologue?

[00:52:41]

phil___:

sry

[00:52:44]

phil___:

^^

[00:53:40]

wagnerrp:

yep, likely only a handful of people in here have ever even tried remixing or encoding through ALSA rules

[00:54:20]

phil___:

dived into it last week, was a pain in the orange

[00:54:43]

phil___:

alsa is counter intuitive but in the end powerful

[00:55:26]

phil___:

and the documentation needs some serious improvements it will never get

[00:55:55]

phil___:

seeing that it's sort of deprecated nowadays

[00:56:25]

wagnerrp:

whats depreciated?

[00:57:07]

iamlindoro:

depreciated is the loss of value

[00:57:14]

iamlindoro:

deprecated is the word he intends to use :P

[00:57:29]

iamlindoro:

actually, it's the word he did use

[00:57:31]

wagnerrp:

...what is he saying is depreciated...

[00:57:31]

iamlindoro:

go him

[00:57:41]

iamlindoro:

no, he (correctly) said deprecated

[00:57:48]

iamlindoro:

you said depreciated, which is wrong :)

[00:58:05]

iamlindoro:

depreciate = lose value

[00:58:15]

iamlindoro:

deprecate = become legacy, no longer supported

[00:58:25]

wagnerrp:

huh... new word of the day

[00:58:48]

wagnerrp:

anyway... what has been superseded? alsa?

[00:59:21]

** iamlindoro waits for the "pulse is going to replace alsa" misunderstanding **

[00:59:32]

phil___:

re

[00:59:40]

phil___:

i wouldn't state it like that

[01:00:00]

iamlindoro:

phil___, pulse cannot replace alsa-- they don't do remotely the same thing

[01:00:13]

iamlindoro:

pulse *needs* alsa to function

[01:00:28]

wagnerrp:

well... at least until people decide to start writing direct hardware support into pulse

[01:00:33]

phil___:

but what i've read about jack and a couple of newer projects as alsa, i don't think that many people are going to do something for alsa, including the documentation

[01:00:49]

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[01:00:58]

iamlindoro:

phil___, They certainly won't be doing anything for JACK, it's a niche product that will never, ever become standard

[01:01:08]

iamlindoro:

alsa is the 20 ton gorilla, nobody even comes close

[01:01:16]

iamlindoro:

pulse runs on *ton* of alsa

[01:01:28]

iamlindoro:

and any alternative (oss, jack, etc) is dead in the water

[01:01:37]

phil___:

so in technical terms i'd say that alsa is heavy used, but in social terms, alsa won't have that much people to work on it

[01:02:11]

phil___:

hm ok then this is a misunderstanding

[01:02:16]

wagnerrp:

but people *have* to work on alse

[01:02:27]

wagnerrp:

or else it will not get new drivers to support new hardware

[01:02:36]

wagnerrp:

pulse does not currently access hardware

[01:02:37]

phil___:

why then are they not capable of doing some nice wiki

[01:02:38]

wagnerrp:

it accesses alsa

[01:03:22]

phil___:

i see the point wagnerrp

[01:05:37]

phil___:

the usability to an end user is horrible anyway

[01:06:03]

wagnerrp:

no argument there

[01:06:17]

phil___:

i've got 15 alsa devices after figuring out how to duplicate analog to digital

[01:06:18]

phil___:

:-D

[01:07:51]

phil___:

and to put something on top, if you use dmix you are guaranteed to throw the quality away

[01:08:40]

phil___:

what i would like to see in 5 years is jack in a handy UI

[01:10:36]

phil___:

the docs on jack right now state in line 3: you have to dig in weeks of sweat

[01:10:41]

phil___:

in a nicer way

[01:13:03]

phil___:

iamlindoro: were we discussing the scheduler yesterday?

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[01:16:35]

phil___:

wagnerrp: managed the python script to save the wakeup time, but failed to put it into upstart before every important part shut down :D

[01:18:03]

phil___:

actually just 5 lines, python is really useful for stuff like this

[01:18:48]

phil___:

you have to code a year in c++ before you're able to decode STL stuff

[01:21:58]

Gibby_2:

anyone know how the mirobridge tests its connectivity to the internet?

[01:23:20]

Gibby_2:

n/m i found it

[01:24:29]

Beirdo:

can't believe I just spent HOURS chasing a missing initializer

[01:26:09]

** phil___ hugs Beirdo **

[01:26:33]

Beirdo:

and I did find the freeze as well

[01:26:39]

Beirdo:

right in the waitpid...

[01:26:55]

Beirdo:

kill mythfrontend with SIGCHLD and away it goes

[01:27:00]

Beirdo:

sigh

[01:27:10]

Beirdo:

I need a beer

[01:27:28]

** phil___ cheers to Beirdo **

[01:27:38]

** phil___ *clonck* **

[01:36:12]

Gibby_2:

flash to the past

[01:36:16]

Gibby_2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3mXaATLeRM

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** sphery wonders how to attach a file to Bugzilla **

[02:05:17]

sphery:

found it... this is an ugly UI

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[02:16:35]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:17:01]

sphery:

got 2 xdg-screensaver patches uploaded (finally)

[02:17:24]

sphery:

those have been sitting on my filesystem for almost 4 months, now

[02:18:10]

sphery:

Now I'm trying to decide if I should actually fix gnome-screensaver support on it so it uses gnome-screensaver's dbus api (since GNOME completely broke the gnome-screensaver-command support)

[02:18:34]

Beirdo:

heh

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[02:34:13]

momelod:

greetings channel

[02:34:28]

momelod:

i had to change my backend's ip address and now my remote install of mythfrontend always tries to connect to the old ip address? Im not even using ip addressing in the config, instead the hostname is the same, only i have changed the ip in /etc/hosts. When i run mythfronend from cli i see it is trying to connect to the old ip: "Connecting to backend server: 192.168.100.1"

[02:34:47]

momelod:

i have also tried with ip address in the mythfrontend setttings

[02:34:58]

momelod:

but the output always shows the old address.

[02:35:06]

wagnerrp:

the IP settings in the frontend point to the database, not the backend

[02:35:17]

wagnerrp:

the database subsequently points to the backend

[02:35:25]

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[02:35:50]

momelod:

i also updated my master backend ip in the backend's server's config using mythtv-setup

[02:36:01]

momelod:

can i flush the cache somehow?

[02:36:09]

wagnerrp:

you set the two values in mythtv-setup, and restarted the backend?

[02:36:28]

wagnerrp:

master and local backend address?

[02:36:42]

wagnerrp:

and you must do so on the backend itself

[02:39:42]

momelod:

lol

[02:40:01]

momelod:

didn't realize there were two fields to update

[02:40:05]

momelod:

thanks!

[02:41:24]

wagnerrp:

one is used to define what IP address that backend will listen on

[02:41:33]

wagnerrp:

the other is to define which backend will serve as master

[02:41:45]

phil___:

n8

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[02:57:43]

sphery:

yay, uploaded a 3rd patch for xdg-screensaver, so now I can delete my xdg dir that's been a grudging reminder that I needed to upload those patches

[02:58:31]

sphery:

the fact that 2 specific DEs feel that there's no need for a standard, unified approach for disabling all screensavers gets my blood pressure way too high every time I saw that dir

[02:58:34]

Beirdo:

need more new shows to record

[02:58:39]

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[02:59:28]

Beirdo:

OK, Mr. Honks-A-Lot... put that horn away, please

[02:59:36]

sphery:

after all, why shouldn't every app be coded with a xscreensaver-kde and a screensaver-gnome and a screensaver-xfce and a screensaver-xscreensaver and a screensaver-xlockmore and ...

[03:00:00]

Beirdo:

screensaver-whythehecknot?

[03:00:02]

sphery:

heh, it's just that I remember when GNU/Linux was a Unix-like operating system

[03:00:15]

Beirdo:

oooh. xlock

[03:00:29]

jams:

still miss my xroach

[03:00:31]

sphery:

I mean if I wanted a Windows-like operating system, I'd just use Windows

[03:00:46]

Beirdo:

xsnow was fun

[03:00:49]

sphery:

see, those are 2 more (unless xlockmore is API compatible with xlock)

[03:01:00]

Beirdo:

especially on someone else's desktop

[03:01:04]

sphery:

heh

[03:01:09]

Beirdo:

as it didn't give any way to remove it

[03:01:16]

jams:

xsnow is still out there and included with distros

[03:01:25]

sphery:

or the xplanet in the root DoS attack?

[03:01:32]

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[03:02:13]

Beirdo:

of course, if my friends put xsnow on my desktop, I'd usually retaliate... with full screen xeyes... in an infinite loop

[03:02:36]

** jams just started xsnow **

[03:03:24]

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[03:03:45]

Beirdo:

hey... I think I just figured out why this stupid thing hangs... maybe.

[03:03:52]

Beirdo:

it's missing ONE SIGCHLD

[03:04:11]

Beirdo:

as it's getting two at pretty much the same tiem

[03:04:24]

Beirdo:

I hate... this.. crap.

[03:04:41]

sphery:

You know, spammers are pretty darn good at their jobs. I mean they've already sent out the all the spam they were supposed to send before 4PM EDT tomorrow. That's like 17hrs ahead of schedule.

[03:04:47]

Beirdo:

I think that mythsystem.cpp will be needing an overhaul

[03:04:58]

sphery:

at least, that's what the dates on my spam e-mails seem to indicate

[03:05:13]

sphery:

Beirdo: including some nice thread-safety changes?

[03:05:24]

Beirdo:

sphery: especially those

[03:05:33]

Beirdo:

this is ridiculous

[03:05:36]

Beirdo:

so...

[03:05:38]

sphery:

someone (Dibblah?) mentioned he thought there were some thread-safety issues

[03:05:47]

Beirdo:

if your frontend wedges at "Please wait..."

[03:05:54]

Beirdo:

go kill it with SIGCHLD

[03:11:28]

sphery:

what's that do?

[03:11:31]

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[03:12:50]

Beirdo:

tells it that a child has died

[03:13:00]

Beirdo:

and makes waitpid return :)

[03:13:19]

Beirdo:

that's what waitpid waits for

[03:13:37]

Beirdo:

but if you miss a signal somehow, waitpid can be rather stupid

[03:14:16]

wagnerrp:

mmm... 4Tb/sq.in.

[03:14:30]

sphery:

HAMR?

[03:14:30]

Beirdo:

oO

[03:15:13]

wagnerrp:

http://www.gizmag.com/ferroelectric-data-stor . . . ecord/16145/

[03:15:21]

Beirdo:

oh

[03:16:00]

Beirdo:

I think Tiger Woods needs to go back to gettin some on the side... his golf game really sucks since he's been "faithful"

[03:16:23]

wagnerrp:

do both sides of a disk platter get written on?

[03:16:34]

Beirdo:

yes

[03:16:40]

Beirdo:

usually

[03:17:32]

Beirdo:

come on WGN, I recorded this for Scrubs, not the end of the flippin news

[03:17:53]

wagnerrp:

so this is ~14x denser than current hard drives

[03:18:04]

wagnerrp:

it only requires a scanning electron microscope

[03:18:11]

wagnerrp:

thats certainly doable... :)

[03:18:13]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:19:46]

Beirdo:

2010-08–28 20:19:34.129 mythfrontend version: 1694URL1694 [exported] www.mythtv.org

[03:19:53]

Beirdo:

that still makes me chuckle

[03:20:04]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[03:20:04]

sphery:

wow, http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010-August/296007.html

[03:20:16]

sphery:

cable co tells the guy to return his cablecard immediately

[03:20:28]

sphery:

nice timing, too

[03:20:48]

wagnerrp:

timing for what?

[03:21:02]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: now the H.264 icon's missing... but I guess you guys are gonna re-redo nigel's changes?

[03:21:11]

sphery:

no longer supporting cablecard--just when hdhr prime is on the horizon

[03:21:22]

wagnerrp:

but they cant not support cablecard

[03:21:47]

sphery:

Beirdo: yeah, it sounds like markk is going to rework it with the flexibility it had before the, er, changes

[03:21:50]

wagnerrp:

FCC hasnt rescinded that mandate

[03:22:03]

wagnerrp:

and they wont for at least until the replacement is ready

[03:22:14]

wagnerrp:

and then for probably a couple years after that

[03:22:42]

sphery:

but regardless, you have to convince the provider that's the case :)

[03:23:02]

Beirdo:

sure they can not support cablecard... if they use a totally new system tht doesn't use it

[03:23:02]

wagnerrp:

no you dont

[03:23:08]

Beirdo:

like analog :)

[03:23:18]

wagnerrp:

you simply have to inform the FCC

[03:23:44]

Beirdo:

make the FCC bite a chunk off them? :)

[03:23:48]

sphery:

but your cable card stops working until the FCC fixes the problem

[03:23:49]

Beirdo:

I like your thinking

[03:23:57]

sphery:

i.e. you still have to convince the provider that's the case

[03:24:14]

Beirdo:

just say you never received the letter... that'll get you a week or more

[03:24:17]

sphery:

if you can't convince them, you don't get access to your channels

[03:24:26]

Beirdo:

then when they pull the plug, call them and scream

[03:24:44]

Beirdo:

some people need to be more passive aggressive :)

[03:24:51]

wagnerrp:

you dont get access to you channels, you withhold payment

[03:24:58]

Beirdo:

exactly

[03:28:37]

sphery:

and, the whole time that you're feeling all correct and smug, you can sit back, relax, and watch some TV... Oh, wait, no you can't.

[03:28:57]

sphery:

all I'm saying is that it's going to be a disruption

[03:28:58]

Beirdo:

depends

[03:29:12]

Beirdo:

a LOT of cable companies take a long time to shut ya off

[03:29:28]

sphery:

but when they shut off their cable card, you're shut off

[03:29:31]

Beirdo:

depends on how incompetant they are

[03:29:38]

Beirdo:

so don't return it

[03:29:57]

sphery:

and hope they don't shut it off upstream?

[03:29:58]

Beirdo:

and when they shut it off, call and give them hell

[03:30:45]

Beirdo:

of course, it won't always work

[03:30:54]

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[03:31:01]

sphery:

sure, you can, but if at the end of the day, you miss recordings, there's a problem--regardless of what the law says

[03:31:18]

Beirdo:

yeah

[03:31:21]

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[03:31:35]

sphery:

anyway, not a problem for me since I don't have cable and don't choose to receive any pay-TV stations

[03:31:41]

Beirdo:

hehe

[03:31:44]

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[03:32:33]

Beirdo:

uh HUH

[03:32:43]

Beirdo:

Encoder 7 [ HDHOMERUN : 1019FF94–1 ] is local on mythtv and is recording 'Junk Raiders' on IONLife. This recording is scheduled to end at 9:00 PM.

[03:32:47]

Beirdo:

sure it is.

[03:32:51]

Beirdo:

no light on

[03:33:35]

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[03:33:42]

Beirdo:

2010-08–28 20:33:06.104 Error deleting 'GetPlaybackURL/UNABLE/TO/FIND/LOCAL/FILE/ON/mythtv/3333_20100828203000.mpg': No such file or directory

[03:33:47]

Beirdo:

now that's pretty

[03:34:25]

sphery:

jerks

[03:34:42]

sphery:

newegg disabled paste in the "confirm e-mail address" box

[03:34:50]

Beirdo:

idiots

[03:35:51]

sphery:

just to spite their stupid system, I deleted the e-mail I typed under, "E-mail Address," then typed my address in, "Confirm E-mail Address," then copied the one from confirm and pasted it into e-mail.

[03:36:02]

Beirdo:

hehe

[03:36:22]

Beirdo:

info@biteme.com ?

[03:36:47]

Beirdo:

need to do something about 0 byte recordings

[03:36:58]

Beirdo:

and SOMEONE closed the bug as "fixed"

[03:37:05]

Beirdo:

oh no it ain't

[03:37:46]

Beirdo:

meh :)

[03:38:11]

Beirdo:

I'd like to see them get auto-deleted, rescheduled

[03:38:19]

Beirdo:

just as soon as it's detected

[03:38:44]

Beirdo:

and even... if you can't lock on the channel, reschedule immediately on another input

[03:39:48]

totalanni:

lol @ sphery

[03:40:41]

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[03:41:28]

wagnerrp:

you know... i know iamlindoro hates movie screenshots used as backdrops

[03:41:36]

wagnerrp:

but this one is just too fantastic not to use

[03:41:41]

wagnerrp:

http://hwcdn.themoviedb.org/backdrops/cfa/4c6 . . . original.jpg

[03:42:22]

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[03:42:25]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:42:30]

sphery:

heh

[03:43:28]

wagnerrp:

you simply can not look at that and not chuckle

[03:43:50]

Beirdo:

yeah

[03:45:31]

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[03:46:31]

Captain_Murdoch:

if only it weren't scaled up from 640x480 or something.

[03:46:59]

Captain_Murdoch:

or maybe the VHS tape was worn a little. :)

[03:47:06]

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[03:47:25]

wagnerrp:

and interlaced from the look of it

[03:47:38]

Captain_Murdoch:

you mean he doesn't have 10 fingers on each hand?

[03:47:44]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[03:48:01]

wagnerrp:

hes got, maybe 7 on each

[03:48:07]

Captain_Murdoch:

and that's the reason I hand-pick all my fanart images.

[03:48:40]

Captain_Murdoch:

and hand-edit most of them to get the best view in the area exposed by Arclight.

[03:48:46]

wagnerrp:

oh for a bluray... my dvd looks like crap

[03:49:02]

Beirdo:

Captain_Murdoch: that just sounds sad :)

[03:49:35]

Captain_Murdoch:

Beirdo, this is mostly TV, I don't do it for movies. don't use MythVideo enough to care what the background is when looking for a movie.

[03:49:46]

Beirdo:

hehe, OK

[03:49:48]

wagnerrp:

well thats funky

[03:49:59]

wagnerrp:

a basic search off tvdb.py is fully populated

[03:50:01]

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[03:50:09]

wagnerrp:

while one off tmdb.py only returns the basic info

[03:51:30]

wagnerrp:

of course a direct inetref pull is much faster than a search

[03:51:39]

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[04:46:06]

** Beirdo yawns **

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[04:56:50]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:57:04]

Beirdo:

someone did most of the work for me on #8771 it seems

[05:05:31]

wagnerrp:

i dont know why i didnt do this in the first place

[05:05:56]

wagnerrp:

ive reworked the python database access classes a bit

[05:06:08]

wagnerrp:

to pull all their setup information from the database itself

[05:06:46]

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[05:07:31]

wagnerrp:

removing several descriptor lines from every class ive got in there

[05:19:06]

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[05:19:10]

sphery:

why is it that every time I try to use Trac to figure out what's going on with bugs, it locks up on me

[05:19:30]

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[05:19:44]

wagnerrp:

because were using sqlite

[05:21:49]

wagnerrp:

man, prozac, how has that not made it onto our BadContent list yet

[05:22:12]

fugdnscerd:

I have a distro for which qt4.5 or later is not available and on which a distro upgrade is not currently an option! Can I compile mythfrontend on another machine and install it on this machine, or will it not run at all without qt4.5 or later installed?

[05:22:15]

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[05:22:34]

wagnerrp:

it will not run

[05:22:40]

fugdnscerd:

ok thank you

[05:22:53]

wagnerrp:

if you try to run it, the dynamic linker will complain about missing libraries

[05:23:22]

fugdnscerd:

is there a way to static link the qt4.5 libraries in the executable

[05:23:31]

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[05:23:47]

wagnerrp:

sure, but they will take a couple hundred MB each, in disk space and memory

[05:24:35]

fugdnscerd:

oh, ok... also not an option... disk space is the major reason an upgrade is not an option at this time!

[05:25:14]

wagnerrp:

oh? how much do you expect an upgrade is going to take that its not an option?

[05:25:30]

wagnerrp:

even bulky mainstream distros are only going to take a couple GB for an install

[05:28:05]

fugdnscerd:

its not so much the final space needed after install, its the disk space it needs to do the upgrade. I have several services running on this machine and will take time i dont have at the moment to backup and restore their settings and data. Apparently ubuntu requires several GBs on certain partitions to complete the upgrade.

[05:28:10]

Captain_Murdoch:

fugdnscerd, you want trunk but only have qt 4.4?

[05:28:55]

fugdnscerd:

Captain_Murdoch: yes, my main FE/BE is running trunk and I would like to run a frontend on a server in my lab to connect to this BE

[05:29:42]

fugdnscerd:

and cant remember for sure but may even be pre 4.4... Its running ubuntu hardy and is updated to the latest qt version available to that distro

[05:31:46]

Captain_Murdoch:

check it and see. If it's 4.4, I can give you a totally unsupported patch to get the latest trunk to compile on it. I have one machine that I don't want to upgrade quite yet and have run this patch on there. main thing that it affects is qtwebkit stuff and the mythdownloadmanager (ie, fanart download, future theme downloader, etc.)

[05:32:04]

Beirdo:

OK, metallurgy weather setup screens fixed

[05:33:07]

fugdnscerd:

it is indeed 4.4

[05:35:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

fugdnscerd, http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1928181

[05:36:59]

Captain_Murdoch:

it basically reverts the changes I made when trunk officially switched to Qt 4.5 and it #ifdef's out some of the MythDownloadManager caching code so that will run slower without any caching.

[05:38:28]

wagnerrp:

you go through a lot of work to stick with that centos... :)

[05:38:40]

Captain_Murdoch:

you might be able to get away without the 1-line change to the pulseaudio code. my old Fedora 8 box needed it.

[05:38:52]

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[05:39:39]

Captain_Murdoch:

wagnerrp, it's in use everywhere here except my old FC5 nfsroot image for my frontends. going to upgrade those soonish though. still unsure if I'm going to consolidate them into the CentOS nfsroot image or make a new Fedora 13-ish nfsroot image for the frontends.

[05:39:54]

dserban:

Canadians ... oh I love Canadians. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjiwBwBL4Qo

[05:40:00]

Captain_Murdoch:

I hate upgrading the OS

[05:40:16]

dserban:

Captain_Murdoch, aptitude dist-upgrade?

[05:40:46]

wagnerrp:

heh, ive got all my stuff consolidated into a single netboot image, so its not that bad to upgrade

[05:41:03]

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[05:41:21]

dserban:

wagnerrp, do you use s2ram for frontends on diskless stations?

[05:41:40]

wagnerrp:

yes

[05:41:45]

Captain_Murdoch:

dserban, shared nfsroot CentOS? I don't quite think that would work. I have about 5–6 machines using the same shared nfsroot image. only thing they have dedicated is /etc, /tmp and parts of /var.

[05:42:08]

Captain_Murdoch:

I yum install an rpm and it's available immediately on all nfsroot servers.

[05:42:10]

dserban:

and they come back to life?

[05:42:19]

wagnerrp:

yep

[05:42:21]

dserban:

:o

[05:42:26]

wagnerrp:

why wouldnt they?

[05:42:45]

Beirdo:

OK, this is really really getting annoying

[05:42:45]

wagnerrp:

you have some sort of problem where the network never comes back online?

[05:42:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

wagnerrp, some nics don't deal well with s2ram and have to be unloaded first which kinda prevents re-loading if the network is down when they unsuspend.

[05:43:06]

Beirdo:

now it's always hosing on the mythsystem crap :)

[05:43:10]

dserban:

Mine have troubles. Although I have an "icky" feeling that on suspend, it runs s2both (disk and ram)... well, there's no disk when the network is... off.

[05:43:42]

fugdnscerd:

Thank you Captain_Murdoch... much appreciated! New prob now tho, I have yasm installed but for some reason configure isnt finding it! Is there a switch i can utilize to define the yasm executable

[05:44:07]

wagnerrp:

dserban: in theory, you could just precache whatever files you need to re-init the network card

[05:44:11]

Beirdo:

gonna beat it silly with a baseball bat tomorrow

[05:45:37]

dserban:

wow, youtube has a pile of delinquents commenting... on everything. I wish I could ask for the adult version.

[05:45:54]

Beirdo:

there IS no adult version

[05:46:01]

Beirdo:

youtube is fer punks

[05:46:29]

dserban:

Aye, though excellent place to waste away hours of your life.

[05:46:34]

Captain_Murdoch:

fugdnscerd, is it in your path? you can try hardcoding the path in configure (search for "yasm" in quotes), but if it's in your path, you shouldn't need to hardcode the path to it.

[05:47:13]

fugdnscerd:

yep its at /usr/bin/yasm but still configure doesnt seem to find it

[05:47:22]

Captain_Murdoch:

or maybe it's not new enough

[05:47:37]

dserban:

uhh I upgraded, must reboot to enjoy my new kernel.

[05:47:38]

dserban:

bbiab

[05:47:40]

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[05:47:55]

Beirdo:

of course, our lovely configure script won't tell us taht :)

[05:48:26]

fugdnscerd:

hmmm wonder what version is required... oh well it will compile without it!!

[05:49:32]

** Captain_Murdoch mumbles 'time for sleep...' and head off down the hall. **

[05:49:44]

Beirdo:

mmm, sleep

[05:50:06]

fugdnscerd:

on the netboot discussion, as long as two machines are of the same arch they should be able to share the same image correct?

[05:50:19]

wagnerrp:

in theory

[05:50:39]

wagnerrp:

assuming the image has all the necessary drivers for both machines

[05:51:32]

wagnerrp:

of course you shouldnt run two machines at the same time off the same image

[05:51:44]

wagnerrp:

they will need some amount of writable space

[05:51:53]

wagnerrp:

so you either need to overlay the whole thing

[05:52:16]

wagnerrp:

or you need to do considerable work to disable writing in certain parts, and provide overlays or memory disks for other parts

[05:52:29]

wagnerrp:

i cheated

[05:52:41]

wagnerrp:

i just clone by base image, and apply the overlay directly

[05:52:53]

wagnerrp:

then each machine boots off its own altered image

[05:53:09]

fugdnscerd:

oic

[05:54:15]

Beirdo:

so many whiny people who don't wanna upgrade php

[05:54:44]

fugdnscerd:

well considering the fact that im wading in @10GB hds up to my knees I guess I wouldnt benefit much from netboot! FEs would be a lil queiter but noise level hasnt been to much of an issue for me

[05:56:23]

wagnerrp:

the advantage is easy maintenance of multiple machines

[05:56:32]

wagnerrp:

there is a bit of extra work than just doing one machine

[05:56:39]

wagnerrp:

but you only have to update the one image

[05:56:56]

wagnerrp:

and then push it out to multiple machines that can use it

[05:59:01]

fugdnscerd:

may have to check it out then... only a few machines on my network tho so still not sure if the setup would be worth the hassle yet... Bigger house, few more FEs and maybe..

[06:01:03]

wagnerrp:

i only have two, and i consider it worth the hassle

[06:01:39]

wagnerrp:

of course with the way i have it set up, i can create a new image, overlay, and boot configuration for a device in under five minutes

[06:02:03]

wagnerrp:

some of the automated distro tools can probably do it with no user intervention

[06:02:42]

fugdnscerd:

hmm.. Any tutorials or further reading you could direct me to?

[06:02:59]

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[06:03:07]

wagnerrp:

not really, mine is fairly custom

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[06:25:37]

Beirdo:

sphery: you hard-@#$# :)

[06:25:58]

Beirdo:

"upgrade or rot" :)

[06:27:38]

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[06:29:06]

sphery:

heh

[06:29:19]

Beirdo:

yer my hero

[06:29:30]

sphery:

well, a pre-req/requirement is kind of important

[06:29:50]

Beirdo:

yeah, and all the excess whining is incredibly annoying

[06:30:14]

Beirdo:

get a clue, people.

[06:43:37]

jpabq:

One of the main reasons I recently got around to upgrading from Fedora 11 to Fedora 13, is because php-5.3 could *not* be installed via yum, without enabling the rawhide repo — which I didn't want to do.

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[06:54:53]

** Beirdo waits for a movie to be over... then bed **

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[08:19:07]

Raptors:

hey guys. anyone online?

[08:20:16]

Raptors:

Can someone recommend me a good cheap input card? I don't need anything fancy just want something to watch SD satellite,

[08:20:25]

Raptors:

something under $30

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[09:03:33]

Raptors:

anyone?

[09:14:31]

Raptors:

it would need to work in debian 64 bit

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[09:32:09]

justinh:

Raptors: pick up a Hauppauge PVR card from Ebay

[09:32:37]

justinh:

Raptors: you're not going to get satisfactory results using an ACME TV Tuner card bought from your local junk shop

[09:35:08]

justinh:

and by 'ACME' I mean 'generic piece of crap'

[09:36:07]

justinh:

FYI your myth box is also going to need a means of changing channels on the satellite set top box, aka an IR blaster

[09:36:44]

justinh:

otherwise it'll all be about as much use as a chocolate fireguard

[09:37:32]

Raptors:

justinh, I don't need a guild

[09:37:39]

justinh:

yes you DO

[09:37:48]

Raptors:

my satellite box has on built in...

[09:38:02]

justinh:

for mythtv, you need an EPG.. otherwise using myth will be quite painful

[09:38:24]

Raptors:

Is there any other piece of software that I can use that'll just output video?

[09:38:30]

justinh:

plenty

[09:38:55]

Raptors:

do any of them have an option to record?

[09:39:03]

justinh:

not as far as I know

[09:39:07]

Raptors:

:|

[09:39:29]

Raptors:

Why can't mythtv just use the guild on the satellite box?

[09:39:40]

justinh:

*guide* you mean

[09:39:53]

Raptors:

ya...

[09:39:54]

Raptors:

lol

[09:40:04]

justinh:

because mythtv doesn't read text from a video input, and it doesn't know squat about the satellite box

[09:40:05]

Raptors:

I've been up for a while lol

[09:40:25]

Raptors:

its a bell tv box

[09:40:35]

justinh:

so?

[09:40:35]

Raptors:

the basic one

[09:40:45]

Raptors:

so I'm tired.

[09:40:59]

justinh:

you figure mythtv should just be able to access everything on the STB from just its video signals? heh

[09:41:21]

justinh:

anyway no you can't just use the STB's guide

[09:41:37]

justinh:

and you're gonna need some means of the computer changing channels on the STB

[09:41:42]

Raptors:

Which Hauppauge PVR card are the cheapest that work with linux?

[09:41:53]

justinh:

all the hauppauge PVR cards work with linux

[09:42:09]

justinh:

you can't buy those cards new anymore but they go for a song on Ebay etc

[09:42:28]

justinh:

you might even be able to get the whole kit for $30 including remote & IR blaster

[09:43:54]

Raptors:

*goes to try to find software that can output video and record*

[09:44:44]

justinh:

vlc might even be able to for all I know

[09:44:57]

Raptors:

I was thinking about vlc

[09:45:00]

justinh:

I tend not to use that much & I've never used it with a tuner

[09:45:49]

Raptors:

So Hauppauge is the only company that had good drives in linux?

[09:46:26]

bjd:

Sure is easier to stick to big vendors

[09:46:55]

justinh:

put it this way – hauppauge pvr cards were the *only* tuner cards with onboard mpeg encoders supported by linux for a long, long time

[09:47:08]

justinh:

and for the most part, hauppauge tuners still lead the field

[09:47:10]

Raptors:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127988

[09:47:13]

Raptors:

what about that?

[09:47:31]

justinh:

nope

[09:47:36]

Raptors:

:(

[09:48:03]

justinh:

you *could* use it, but any recording will involve your CPU compressing the video & audio on the flt

[09:48:07]

justinh:

*fly

[09:48:30]

Raptors:

I have a AMD 9850 quad

[09:48:30]

justinh:

not only that, the PVR series of cards do their own audio capture

[09:48:44]

Raptors:

I think it should be good enough

[09:48:47]

justinh:

no messing with soundcard patch cables

[09:49:01]

Raptors:

egg

[09:49:46]

Raptors:

gaaaaa

[09:49:54]

Raptors:

*goes to ebay*

[09:50:38]

justinh:

and if you ever want to capture more than one thing at the same time – if you use that kind of capture card – a framegrabber – you invariably need a soundcard *per* tuner card :-P

[09:50:38]

Raptors:

dam that's on newegg.com too :( probably more expensive or not available on newegg.ca :(

[09:51:18]

Raptors:

:\

[09:51:35]

justinh:

lots of people using mythtv started out believing all they ever wanted to do was just watch tv or record the occasional show. that was me. and here I am with 3 tuners, 4TB storage.... I can record up to 15 shows at the same time

[09:51:59]

Raptors:

LOL

[09:52:09]

Raptors:

I seriously doubt I'm going to get that deep

[09:55:01]

justinh:

I only ever tried mythtv cos the tuner I bought wouldn't work for more than 5 minutes on windows

[09:55:22]

justinh:

and when I say that I mean it'd work for 5 mins then the machine would lock up hard

[09:55:36]

Raptors:

:|

[09:56:37]

justinh:

under linux, after patching a 2.6.9 kernel it would work fine.. all the time :)

[09:56:41]

justinh:

funny, that :D

[09:58:34]

Raptors:

justinh, do you even have 15 shows that come on at one time?

[10:03:06]

Raptors:

justinh, http://cgi.ebay.ca/HAUPPAUGE-WIN-TV-NTSC-4480 . . . t_1678wt_814

[10:03:09]

Raptors:

Would that work?

[10:03:30]

justinh:

it'd *work* but again it has no onboard audio capture, and no hardware encoding

[10:03:51]

justinh:

Raptors: you'd be surprised how much you can record when you don't watch anything live anymore

[10:04:16]

Raptors:

I mainly just watch sports so that would be of no use to me lol

[10:04:24]

Raptors:

why don't you watch anything live?

[10:04:32]

Raptors:

busy?

[10:05:50]

justinh:

because I don't like tv schedules.. nor do I like watching ads

[10:06:05]

Raptors:

You don't watch sports?

[10:06:09]

justinh:

nope

[10:06:19]

justinh:

obviously that makes me a sub-human freak but hey

[10:06:28]

Raptors:

lol

[10:06:43]

justinh:

anyway in the UK, most of the sport apparently worth watching comes on Pay TV

[10:06:46]

Raptors:

Does Myth TV have a way of removing ads?

[10:07:02]

justinh:

yeah, it can flag them & skip ads automagically

[10:07:18]

Raptors:

Does it work well?

[10:07:22]

justinh:

works in some places better than others – but in the US it's pretty much accurate all the time

[10:07:46]

Raptors:

I'm in canada but most are shows are american :|

[10:07:55]

justinh:

over here the majority of breaks are a fixed length

[10:08:08]

justinh:

so I just skip all the ads with one button instead :)

[10:08:18]

Raptors:

lol nice

[10:08:56]

justinh:

but as annoying as our ads are I bet they're not a patch on USA adverts

[10:09:03]

Raptors:

Still trying to find a decent card :(

[10:09:31]

Raptors:

US ads aren't that bad.

[10:09:32]

justinh:

apparently this one is 'popular' over here lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_-9QFvhQWo

[10:09:54]

justinh:

I dunno, I bet the local low-rent ads are terrible

[10:09:59]

Raptors:

I watched a UK channel once the ads drove me mad

[10:10:31]

justinh:

some fat old bloke badly chromakeyed over a shot, shouting about his used car lot :-P

[10:11:33]

justinh:

I think I've only ever seen US TV once, the 1st time I visited the states. it was pretty horrible

[10:11:59]

Raptors:

What was horrible about it?

[10:12:20]

justinh:

the frequency, and amount of advertising

[10:12:42]

justinh:

also the awful picture & sound

[10:12:50]

Raptors:

awful picture?

[10:12:50]

Raptors:

What?

[10:12:54]

justinh:

even taking into account it was hotel tv

[10:13:23]

justinh:

hey, I always knew NTSC was technically inferior ;-)

[10:13:56]

Raptors:

psh, ya right.

[10:14:41]

justinh:

the whole reason the Simpsons are yellow, apparently

[10:14:54]

justinh:

with NTSC that can be how flesh tones turn out :P

[10:15:17]

justinh:

but now y'all have digital TV.. no nasty colour phase problems :-)

[10:15:19]

** Raptors rollseyes **

[10:16:29]

justinh:

when I was a kid we rented a TV which had four controls.. volume, brightness, contrast and HUE... I used to wonder wth this 'hue' control was for ;-)

[10:19:22]

Raptors:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116028

[10:19:36]

Raptors:

That one looks good but its double the price I want :(

[10:22:57]

Raptors:

Note: Hauppauge no longer ships any of the analog only (PVR) cards due to pressure from FCC.

[10:22:59]

Raptors:

:|

[10:24:28]

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[10:34:30]

Raptors:

justinh, would this work??

[10:34:31]

Raptors:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.p . . . agdje8i3p7h6

[10:38:16]

justinh:

only for FTA satellite.. of which there's not much in your neck of the woods allegedly

[10:38:42]

** Raptors smashs head against wall **

[10:38:50]

justinh:

that isn't to say there aren't many FTA channels.. just not much you'd likely want to watch

[10:40:43]

justinh:

and there's no legal way to decrypt pay TV over there – none of the satellite providers allow users to use hardware other than what they provide

[10:41:04]

Raptors:

So I'm screwed?

[10:42:19]

justinh:

I said to try ebay for a pvr card didn't I?

[10:42:33]

justinh:

but then you'll also need an IR blaster etc

[10:42:37]

Raptors:

You said that I can't use any hardware but their own

[10:43:13]

justinh:

no, I said you can but there'll be limitations you could do without

[10:43:40]

Raptors:

What kind of limitations?

[10:43:55]

justinh:

software encoding, no onboard audio capture

[10:46:27]

Raptors:

Is there a way I can get the HD channels from bell TV without a Bell HD box?

[10:47:01]

Raptors:

My parents put one in the living room and the one in my room is SD

[10:48:19]

Raptors:

justinh, these are still expensive

[10:48:36]

Raptors:

pv-150 the cheapest on ebay and for $30

[10:48:37]

Raptors:

:|

[10:48:41]

Raptors:

and its from china

[10:53:23]

justinh:

you might be able to get yourself HD if it's clear QAM

[10:53:42]

justinh:

you should at least get what you'd expect to receive over the air though

[10:53:45]

sid3windr:

if $30 is expensive... :)

[10:54:34]

Raptors:

justinh, but what the point of that? :| We are paying for a bunch of channels and most of them wont work

[10:55:04]

justinh:

the whole business with digital TV is that you can't do what you like with content you pay for

[10:55:20]

Raptors:

:\

[10:55:22]

justinh:

you're completely locked in. Isn't it marvellous?

[10:55:41]

Raptors:

That's marvellously horrible

[10:56:38]

Raptors:

Is there a pirate way to decode it?

[10:56:51]

justinh:

nope

[10:57:10]

** Raptors gives up **

[10:57:16]

justinh:

even if there was you couldn't talk about it here, but I can tell you there's no way :-)

[10:57:40]

Raptors:

you could pm me ;)

[10:58:07]

justinh:

nah. I don't do that

[10:58:23]

Raptors:

:( Why not?

[10:58:41]

justinh:

because I don't believe in stealing cable or satellite TV

[10:58:51]

Raptors:

But I'm not stealing it...

[10:59:10]

Raptors:

I'm paying for it but I don't want to pay for another HD box

[10:59:12]

justinh:

wouldn't the cable company charge more money to rent an extra HD box?

[10:59:25]

Raptors:

ya...

[10:59:33]

justinh:

and if the HD box is the only way to watch HD with their network.. so be it

[10:59:48]

Raptors:

you suck. lol

[10:59:56]

justinh:

I take the stance that if it's their way or no way, I'll take no way thanks

[11:00:14]

justinh:

it's not as if you miss much by not having pay TV anyway IMHO

[11:00:34]

Raptors:

Yes you do

[11:00:57]

justinh:

beg to differ, but there ya go

[11:01:18]

justinh:

you can buy box sets for less than a year's subscription in lots of cases

[11:01:26]

justinh:

multiple box sets :)

[11:01:59]

Raptors:

I mainly watch sports...

[11:02:13]

justinh:

if more people took this stance, the providers might have to reconsider

[11:02:42]

justinh:

not sigh & hand their wallet over

[11:02:59]

Raptors:

You can't get sports any other ways...

[11:03:03]

Raptors:

At least not here.

[11:03:12]

Raptors:

The sports channels aren't OTA

[11:03:27]

justinh:

so cough up for another HD box :)

[11:03:47]

justinh:

it's not as if they charge two whole subscriptions for extra boxes

[11:04:04]

** Raptors wishes he knew how to hack **

[11:04:20]

justinh:

heh. if it was even remotely easy it'd be all over the internet

[11:05:28]

Raptors:

Well I guess I can get a crappy cheap tv tuner with linux support and just use VLC

[11:05:41]

justinh:

the encryption they use now must be pretty robust. I remember reading about a college lecturer who set up an exercise to crack cable – took a whole farm of machines quite a while to decrypt 2 seconds of video

[11:06:10]

Raptors:

:|

[11:07:19]

Raptors:

DRM blows

[11:08:08]

justinh:

I'm all for DRM when it's for preventing piracy but it's never really about that. It's about calling the shots on what consumers can do, when & how they do it

[11:08:34]

Raptors:

They aren't going to prevent piracy.

[11:08:39]

justinh:

we know that

[11:09:03]

justinh:

and Joe Schmoe is still handing over is hard earned sheckles regardless

[11:09:06]

Raptors:

They are just making their customers lives worse

[11:09:19]

justinh:

who cares? I still get ma teevees!

[11:09:34]

justinh:

it 'only' costs me $800 a year but hey

[11:09:42]

Raptors:

What?

[11:09:54]

justinh:

well, might as well be $800 a year lol

[11:09:55]

Raptors:

You're paying $800 a year for TV?

[11:10:01]

justinh:

no, that's my point

[11:10:22]

Raptors:

Wait $800 or pounds?

[11:10:29]

Raptors:

if its pounds D:

[11:10:30]

justinh:

if you take anybody's complete package with all the toppings it won't be long before it adds up to that much

[11:11:14]

Raptors:

If you get "all the topping" its going to be far more then 800 dollars

[11:11:21]

justinh:

yup

[11:12:07]

justinh:

and oh dear.. their DVR stops working & loses all their recordings from time to time? Oh well. Just keep paying the money. I mean it mostly still works, right?

[11:13:27]

justinh:

I know people with satellite TV who lose the signal when it rains. they just put it down to something that happens & continue to pay for it. Meh

[11:14:01]

justinh:

if I was paying for it I'd want it to always work when I need it :-)

[11:15:37]

Raptors:

that's me lol

[11:15:50]

Raptors:

except I don't pay for it, my parents do.

[11:17:15]

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[11:19:21]

Raptors:

justinh, you don't pay for TV right?

[11:19:25]

Raptors:

So how do you get your shows?

[11:19:28]

Raptors:

All OTA?

[11:21:47]

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[11:45:47]

justinh:

course it's all just over the air.. what else am I gonna do.. download it? lol

[11:47:49]

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[11:52:50]

Raptors:

justinh, how many channels do you get?

[11:53:21]

Raptors:

do you have a giant antenna in your backyard?

[11:57:11]

oobe:

or any pet reptiles?

[11:57:31]

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[11:57:37]

oobe:

do you have a lawnmower

[12:02:14]

justinh:

I have a guy who mows my lawn. I call him 'lawnmower man'

[12:02:28]

Raptors:

lol

[12:03:08]

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oobe:

lol awesome

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gbee:

can anyone running current trunk confirm that attempting to enter mythmusic's playback screen instead brings up 'Watch Recordings'?

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ComradeHaz`:

Hey guys. How does importing ISO's into video library work?

[15:59:02]

ComradeHaz`:

Any suggested guides?

[16:01:08]

wagnerrp:

you put the iso in the folder defined for mythvideo, you scan, success!

[16:01:48]

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[16:07:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

ComradeHaz`, MythTV v0.23 only supports local .iso files (or over NFS/CIFS), trunk supports playback of .iso files over the network for the past week or so.

[16:09:22]

gbee:

unencrypted isos

[16:09:48]

gbee:

just to clarify :)

[16:13:17]

Captain_Murdoch:

yes

[16:15:03]

gbee:

Captain_Murdoch: nice work btw

[16:15:33]

Captain_Murdoch:

unencrypted for now. I have a concept patch which overrides open(), close(), seek() and read() which theoretically would all encrypted to work over the wire, but I haven't tested it with a remote DVD yet. I have run MythTV with it, all open/read/close/seek were funneled through my routines and then forwarded to libc by my code. that allowed me to intercept open("myth://blah") calls and call the mythfile_open wrapper

[16:15:57]

gbee:

bluray doesn't need decrypting?

[16:17:55]

gbee:

the commit message only mentions encrypted DVD ISOs

[16:18:00]

Captain_Murdoch:

blueray lib(s) use common sense and funnels all I/O through it's own routines rather than each doing it's own thing. I've not looked at hte code, but bleieve the bluray lib reads the data and then just passes it off to the decrypt stuff and gets something back. the dvdcss stuff opens the files directly and since we dlopen that, that means I can't override open/close/etc. in dvdcss like I did in our libmythdvdnav lib since w

[16:18:00]

Captain_Murdoch:

e don't supply dvdcss. by wrapping libc's open/close/etc, we can intercept those calls for myth:// URIs and pass on everything else.

[16:18:38]

gbee:

ok, that's what I thought, thanks for the clarification :)

[16:18:58]

Captain_Murdoch:

it's a concept, not sure if it's feasible sine it is invasive by wrapping all open/close/etc.

[16:19:26]

Captain_Murdoch:

wrapping meaning I override with an open() in our code that gets used instead of libc's open. not by changing all open() calls to mythfile_open in our code.

[16:19:53]

gbee:

it's going to be a while before I can do a proper remote test so I just wanted to make sure I'm not giving out bad info

[16:21:14]

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[16:21:37]

Captain_Murdoch:

nah, it does work. isos are faster than dvd image directories. the ringbuffer patch that daniel is working on should speed that up though since we'll now allow reading old data out of the cache. ie, I read 32KB, then seek backwards 32KB and read it again. the DVD code does a lot of that. currently we do a real seek in that case and invalidate our readahead cache. the patch will just move the pointers in RingBuffer so we

[16:21:37]

Captain_Murdoch:

don't do the seek or invalidate the readahead buffer as long as the seek position is in our buffer somewhere.

[16:23:08]

ComradeHaz`:

[17:07:32] <+Captain_Murdoch> ComradeHaz`, MythTV v0.23 only supports local .iso files (or over NFS/CIFS), trunk supports playback of .iso files over the network for the past week or so. <----- using NFS, scanning for changes as appropriate doesn't show the iso's though....

[16:23:15]

jblack:

These protocol version changes are killer.

[16:24:08]

wagnerrp:

the ones between 0.23 and 0.23.1?

[16:24:20]

jblack:

Yeah, 23056 vs 56, correct?

[16:24:31]

wagnerrp:

0.23.1 is 23056

[16:24:33]

wagnerrp:

0.23 is 56

[16:24:37]

wagnerrp:

run one or the other

[16:25:26]

jblack:

Yeah. I'm bringing a new box in that's using debian sid, which has .23.1. Which means I get to upgrade several ubuntu boxes to go from 0.23.0 to 0.23.1.

[16:25:35]

jblack:

Such is the cost of bleeding edge toys like myth. =)

[16:26:47]

Captain_Murdoch:

ComradeHaz`, not sure about that. I don't have any ISOs in MythVideo. I had to rip an ISO to my hard drive just to work on the remote playback code I added recently.

[16:26:50]

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[16:27:31]

wagnerrp:

ComradeHaz`: if youre using NFS /and/ using local folders instead of storage groups, it should work fine

[16:27:58]

ComradeHaz`:

Hmm, lwt me see

[16:28:04]

ComradeHaz`:

*let

[16:29:50]

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[16:30:00]

menacedennis:

hey

[16:30:18]

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[16:32:07]

menacedennis:

which TV cards work with MythTV??

[16:32:19]

gbee:

iamlindoro: did we decide whether the metadata search results not including the year was a bug or not? e.g. "The Bourne Identity"

[16:32:32]

wagnerrp:

(nearly) anything supported by the DVB, IVTV, or V4L APIs

[16:32:35]

wagnerrp:

!url tuners

[16:32:35]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[16:34:39]

wagnerrp:

gbee: a tmdb search result does not include a year

[16:35:10]

wagnerrp:

see example results... http://api.themoviedb.org/2.1/methods/Movie.search

[16:35:12]

ComradeHaz`:

OK

[16:35:28]

ComradeHaz`:

So they do show up, I was just being a muppet

[16:35:39]

ComradeHaz`:

Sadly, though I am having trouble playing them

[16:36:00]

wagnerrp:

scratch taht, it should get it from the 'released'

[16:36:02]

wagnerrp:

ignore me

[16:36:26]

ComradeHaz`:

Show's the 'do not copy this dvd' screen which then fades to black, and black is how it stays whatever I press

[16:36:42]

ComradeHaz`:

ie Myth frontend has crashed.

[16:39:03]

gbee:

wagnerrp: that's odd because I'd swear that it used to, the results are pretty difficult to use without a year

[16:39:22]

wagnerrp:

well now im confused too

[16:39:36]

wagnerrp:

neither the search, nor the direct pull provide a year

[16:39:41]

wagnerrp:

they just provide a release date

[16:39:53]

wagnerrp:

but the direct pull from tmdb.py returns a year

[16:39:56]

wagnerrp:

the search does not

[16:40:24]

wagnerrp:

so it looks like something the api code in the bindings is translating for one but not the other

[16:40:49]

ComradeHaz`:

Right, so it's official. Every time I try to play an unencrypted iso from a locally mounted nfs directory, it starts to play and then crashes. I can bring up the menu sometimes, but selecting root or title menu does nothing.

[16:40:53]

gbee:

I'm trying to look at the api docs, but my kernel is leaking and this machine is crawling :/

[16:41:06]

ComradeHaz`:

Can anyone assist trouble shooting this?

[16:41:40]

gbee:

and for some strange reason, moving a bluray folder from one directory to another on the same disk is taking forever ...

[16:42:24]

gbee:

ah, PEBCAK

[16:43:48]

wagnerrp:

copy instead of move?

[16:43:59]

gbee:

yeah :/

[16:44:12]

gbee:

Ctrl-C instead of Ctrl-X

[16:44:28]

gbee:

they shouldn't put C and X next to each other on the keyboard

[16:44:58]

gbee:

and that 'leak' wasn't a leak but related to the transfer, it just wasn't showing in top for some reason

[16:45:54]

wagnerrp:

now this makes less sense

[16:46:01]

gbee:

wagnerrp: ok, so we need to append the year from the release date when two titles in the list are identical, and maybe all the time just in case TMDB is missing the correct result

[16:46:15]

wagnerrp:

there is only a single line in tmdb_api.py that parses the year from the released date

[16:46:23]

sphery:

gbee: kind of like putting (Ctrl-)W next to Q

[16:46:29]

wagnerrp:

and that function doesnt seem to be called anywhere

[16:48:13]

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[16:48:31]

ComradeHaz`:

Right, so it's official. Every time I try to play an unencrypted iso from a locally mounted nfs directory, it starts to play and then crashes. I can bring up the menu sometimes, but selecting root or title menu does nothing. Can anyone assist trouble shooting this PLEASE?!

[16:48:57]

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[16:49:09]

wagnerrp:

ComradeHaz`: calm down, youll simply have to wait for someone who actually uses ISO playback with mythtv

[16:49:47]

ComradeHaz`:

Aye, sure.

[16:50:05]

ComradeHaz`:

Repeat question hourly I guess is the order of the day!

[16:50:58]

gbee:

iamlindoro: the mythvideo scan is adding sibling directories of BDMV to the list instead of ignoring them, e.g. CERTIFICATES

[16:52:18]

sphery:

ComradeHaz`: or, the other option is to get us a useful backtrace, as described at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging

[16:52:35]

sphery:

if you can pastebin one, and I'm around, I'll take a look at it

[16:52:56]

sphery:

ISO hate all these problems with our DVD playback

[16:53:14]

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[16:54:44]

wagnerrp:

aww... no wonder i didnt understand how this worked

[16:54:55]

wagnerrp:

gvim borked and marked a huge swath of code as comment

[16:55:28]

sphery:

yeah, I see that happen a lot with ' in comments turning stuff into strings or whatever

[16:55:41]

sphery:

have to scroll up then back down to get it to re-read enough context

[16:56:32]

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[16:57:34]

wagnerrp:

gbee: think ive found the issue

[16:57:41]

wagnerrp:

!seen RDV_Linux

[16:57:41]

MythLogBot:

RDV_Linux is here and has been idle for 4 days 5 hours 9 minutes 52 seconds

[16:57:47]

gbee:

wagnerrp: thanks for looking into it

[16:58:29]

wagnerrp:

mythtv/bindings/python/MythTV/tmdb/tmdb_api.py:613 calls _tmdbDetails, when it (probably) should call movieDetails

[16:58:29]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: What's up?

[16:59:18]

wagnerrp:

RDV_Linux: wondering why movie searches dont return the year, only the release date

[16:59:52]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: A search or details for a specific movie

[17:00:00]

wagnerrp:

title search

[17:00:25]

wagnerrp:

so when you search for something in mythtv, it doesnt show the year, which is normally helpful in determining which entry is the proper one

[17:00:42]

wagnerrp:

the only thing i can find is that line mentioned above

[17:00:53]

wagnerrp:

where it calls _tmdbDetails directly

[17:01:03]

wagnerrp:

rather than the movieDetails redirect

[17:01:05]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: TMDB returns a more limited set of data on a search versus a specific movie details. I return what I get from TMDB

[17:01:37]

wagnerrp:

right, but in both cases, tmdb never returns a year

[17:01:42]

wagnerrp:

you reprocess it from the release date

[17:02:19]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: Let me look at some thing then get back in a few.

[17:02:25]

wagnerrp:

ok, no rush

[17:02:43]

ComradeHaz`:

Stupid question warning: what's the cl command to start 'myth tv frontend' ?

[17:02:48]

wagnerrp:

'mythfrontend'

[17:03:37]

ComradeHaz`:

4) When your crash happens, it will ask you to submit a bug report. Submit the full report. You'll need a launchpad account for this. <---- what does? Where?

[17:03:58]

wagnerrp:

thats a mythbuntu error, not ours

[17:04:35]

ComradeHaz`:

What should happen?

[17:04:47]

wagnerrp:

ask the mythbuntu guys

[17:05:04]

ComradeHaz`:

What would happen on a non ubuntu box?

[17:05:21]

sphery:

ComradeHaz`: on a non-ubuntu box, you'd follow the instructions for source install

[17:05:29]

wagnerrp:

what did happen?

[17:05:35]

wagnerrp:

did the frontend crash? segfault?

[17:05:44]

sphery:

ComradeHaz`: re-load the debugging page in the wiki and read the (new) information in the section on Debugging with Packages

[17:05:56]

wagnerrp:

i dont know what events would cause ubuntu's bug handler to pop up

[17:05:56]

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[17:06:12]

squidly:

ComradeHaz`: check out mythbuntu. the bug report feature actually puts submits a but in to lanuchpad. if you have questions about launchpad then check out launchpad

[17:06:34]

squidly:

wagnerrp: just about any crash could trigger it

[17:06:37]

ComradeHaz`:

it froze with black screen. After a couple of min I pressed Alt+F4. After 30 sec system realsied program wasn't closing gracefully and asked if I wanted to kill teh process. I presesd yes. Back to desktop.

[17:06:59]

wagnerrp:

so yes, it terminated abnormally

[17:07:02]

gbee:

Captain_Murdoch: did anyone test the SG fixes with a bluray filestructure? it's hardly working here, takes 2 minutes just to establish that the number of titles on the disc and four minutes later I'm still waiting for it to start playing

[17:09:45]

squidly:

ComradeHaz`: what build are you using?

[17:09:52]

squidly:

nightly or stable?

[17:10:13]

ComradeHaz`:

I rather suspect stable. It's a standard mythbuntu install..

[17:10:30]

gbee:

Captain_Murdoch: and that's with the storage group, backend and frontend on the same machine

[17:10:31]

ComradeHaz`:

I'm not norally an ubuntu user, so trying to figure out htf they do things.

[17:10:50]

Gibby_2:

ComradeHaz`: head to ubuntu-mythtv

[17:11:01]

ComradeHaz`:

Already there.

[17:11:16]

squidly:

ComradeHaz`: that is your best bet. and check out the ubuntu chans too

[17:11:25]

** ComradeHaz` shudders **

[17:11:33]

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[17:12:05]

Gibby_2:

ComradeHaz`: I will help you in the ubuntu-mythtv channel

[17:12:22]

squidly:

ok anyone ever see this. MythVideo will play a movie no problem. but the timer (how far in to the movie I am) stops around 20–40 minutes in to the move. If I pause and play the movie the timer starts again

[17:12:30]

gbee:

Captain_Murdoch, iamlindoro: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1928468

[17:13:10]

Captain_Murdoch:

gbee, yeah, I downloaded the x264 bluray demo and used that to test. it only takes ~30 seconds here to start. That is one of the things that will be sped up by Daniel's ringbuffer patch. The DVD and BD code seek all over the place in tiny tiny files. I just looked at the playback log and see the BD code seeking 3 times in a 144 byte file. each time that means we issue 3 calls to the backend. SEEK, READ, READ. the patch

[17:13:10]

Captain_Murdoch:

will allow us to use the old data which is still in the cache and just move pointers around to the existing data. I tested a similar patch that I made up and it sped things up quite a bit.

[17:13:33]

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[17:14:31]

gbee:

goes on and on like that reading he *.clpi and *.mpls files for several minutes

[17:14:38]

gbee:

s/he/the/

[17:14:56]

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[17:15:09]

gbee:

5m 48s to be exact :)

[17:15:39]

Captain_Murdoch:

probably gets longer the more features on the disc.

[17:15:45]

sphery:

ComradeHaz`: if you have a standard mythbuntu install and haven't yet enabled the 0.23-fixes auto-builds, that's likely the problem you're having with DVDs--several issues have been fixed since the pre-release version of 0.23 that went into *buntu 10.04 . http://www.mythbuntu.org/auto-builds

[17:15:57]

sphery:

just don't enable trunk/development/unstable/whatever they call it

[17:15:59]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: In both search and movie details, TMDB only returns e.g. "<released>1994-09–09</released>". The tmdb.py script uses the year from that data to add the <year> tag to conform to MythVideo requirements. When iamlindoro requested more details than the old search reference number and title I believe that <releasedate> was considered good enough.

[17:16:28]

wagnerrp:

gbee: ^^

[17:16:33]

gbee:

Captain_Murdoch: do you have your test patch so I can compare?

[17:16:39]

Captain_Murdoch:

gbee, I'm re-applying my concept patch now to test how long startup takes with it.

[17:17:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

sure, I'll pastebin.

[17:17:28]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: Therefore the search can yield the year threw the <releasedate>

[17:17:40]

gbee:

RDV_Linux: ok, so it seems your saying that the issue needs to be handled in mythvideo?

[17:17:47]

gbee:

rather than the scripts

[17:18:46]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: IF the data is not being displayed then yes but it would not be to much for my to add a <year> tag and data in the search of that was easier.

[17:19:25]

gbee:

I need to check the existing code and I'll do that in a few minutes since it seems iamlindoro isn't available atm

[17:19:32]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: I would like iamlindoro to comment but I am willing to make changes

[17:21:16]

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[17:21:18]

Captain_Murdoch:

gbee, I haven't run it long-term, just as a test, but here it is: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1928469 it does 2 things that daniel and I discussed and are in his patch I believe. 1) allow using old/new data in the buffer when we seek backwards rather than always seeking and invalidating the buffer. patch just moves the read position pointer. 2) if we're seeking to a position that is not in the cache but is only a short d

[17:21:18]

Captain_Murdoch:

istance away (1MB in my test code), it will read to that position rather than seeking, so it doesn't invalidate the cache in this case either.

[17:22:23]

Captain_Murdoch:

gbee, and the patch died here. I haven't tested that in a while so maybe I broke something recently. let me check the log

[17:22:31]

gbee:

ah, beautiful, the ffmpeg resync has added support for the audio used by three of my bluray discs :)

[17:24:11]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Under what circumstances would video playback work, but no sound would work in Mythmusic?

[17:25:49]

ComradeHaz`:

Understood sphery, Gibby is helping me in #ubuntu-mythtv

[17:27:06]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: if you have the wrong audio device set for MythMusic, if you have 44.1kHz audio in your CDs and don't have audio set up to allow 44.1kHz (and MythTV isn't resampling), and probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting

[17:27:16]

sphery:

ComradeHaz`: cool--they'll know far more than me about that sutff

[17:28:54]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, there's a second audio device setting for MythMusic somewhere?

[17:29:02]

sphery:

yeah, in mythmusic settings

[17:29:19]

sphery:

(though it's perhaps the 3rd audio device--if you include passthrough audio device)

[17:29:50]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

After my conversation in here on Friday, I redid the entire frontend with a different MythTV repository and finally fixed 5-channel digital sound. I had it on 2-channel

[17:29:57]

sphery:

and that's another reason mythmusic may not work and tv audio does--if you have passthrough enabled on tv and it's passing through and you've never played back a recording without AC-3 or DTS that it can pass through

[17:30:04]

gbee:

wagnerrp: digging into it, it seems it's just an artefact of the change from year to releasedate, some themes (inc Terra) weren't updated to reflect the new name

[17:30:30]

wagnerrp:

RDV_Linux: seems its a theme issue, not a grabber/mythvideo one

[17:31:10]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Found it.

[17:31:16]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

It wasn't the default issue.

[17:31:32]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

The device was right.

[17:31:47]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But with the new sound, I was trying the upconvert to 5.1 and didn't check that under MythMusic

[17:31:56]

gbee:

well, I got that slightly wrong, it's still a theme issue but it wasn't only the change in name but that the old code always appended the year to the title and the new code doesn't, the themer has to explicitly do that themselves

[17:32:39]

iamlindoro:

gbee, That sounds like a seamless branching disc

[17:33:15]

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[17:33:25]

iamlindoro:

gbee, And the mythvideo search should only add sibling dirs if you are doing "ignore unknown file types"

[17:33:57]

iamlindoro:

anyway, it seems I am being talked to about multiple things, I need to get context since I have no idea what we're talking about

[17:34:26]

iamlindoro:

gbee, Also, metadata search results *do* return the year

[17:34:31]

iamlindoro:

see: Arclight

[17:34:35]

iamlindoro:

themer needs to use it

[17:34:54]

iamlindoro:

Themer can use description, title, releasedate, etc.

[17:35:02]

iamlindoro:

so not a bug

[17:35:29]

gbee:

RDV_Linux: it does seem that the code expects 'year'

[17:35:48]

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[17:36:04]

gbee:

iamlindoro: yeah, it's just that previously the code appended the year and now it doesn't, so themes that weren't updated are missing it

[17:36:22]

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[17:36:22]

iamlindoro:

Think the only theme to actually use all the new stuff is Arclight

[17:36:36]

iamlindoro:

default does some basic stuff, but I didn't put a whole heck of a lot of effort into it

[17:36:43]

iamlindoro:

because default sucks :)

[17:36:52]

[R]:

if i edit the 'title' for a recording in the 'recorded' table... will mythtv explode?

[17:37:06]

gbee:

and you can't append 'year' because tmdb.py doesn't provide it and MetadataLookup doesn't break out the year into m_year if <year> wasn't specified

[17:37:11]

Captain_Murdoch:

gbee, looks like the DVD code (at least, not sure if BD does something similar) also just searches for files which don't exist, so when the DVD code scans the titles, it looks for MyImageDir/VTS_08_2.VOB then MyImageDir/VIDEO_TS/VTS_08_2.VOB then MyImageDir/video_ts/VTS_08_2.VOB before it finally decies that VTS_08_2.VOB doesn't exist.

[17:37:11]

[R]:

is that where it does duplicate matching from? or somewhere else?

[17:37:29]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: In the movie details a <year> tag with info is returned it is only the search which has a <releasedate>

[17:37:45]

sphery:

[R]: mythfrontend, Watch Recordings, find the recording you want to change, MENU (possibly 2x), Storage Options, Edit Title

[17:37:55]

gbee:

RDV_Linux: it's specifically the search that we're talking about here

[17:37:55]

[R]:

sphery: excellent... </mr burns>

[17:38:09]

[R]:

sphery: but is it going to break dup matching?

[17:38:11]

sphery:

[R]: and, no, it won't affect duplicate matching

[17:38:18]

[R]:

SWEET

[17:39:04]

RDV_Linux:

iamlindoro: I gather that ArchLight is getting the year from releasedate but other themes are expecting a year tag?

[17:39:14]

iamlindoro:

Arclight just uses releasedate

[17:39:23]

[R]:

sphery: 'Recoding Options' => 'Change Recording Title'... is that it?

[17:39:34]

sphery:

[R]: yeah, was going from memory

[17:39:35]

gbee:

[R]: yes

[17:39:54]

iamlindoro:

The search returns just use releasedate because we didn't want to slow searches down by doing all sorts of extra data manipulation

[17:40:02]

iamlindoro:

so we just used what tmdb returns, and only transformed the tags

[17:40:12]

sphery:

once we have a multiline text edit widget, I'll be putting in a patch that's sitting on my system that allows you to edit the description in that same dialog (along with title and subtitle)

[17:40:24]

iamlindoro:

So we support 100% of the information natively returned in a tmdb search (or at least, that which was returned at that time)

[17:40:30]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: Can you do the same as Arclight or must there be a redundant year tag with data from data from releasedate?

[17:40:32]

[R]:

SAWEET

[17:40:34]

gbee:

iamlindoro: it shouldn't hurt too much to break out the year from releasedate, Terra doesn't have the room to display the full releasedate

[17:40:56]

iamlindoro:

gbee, You can ask RDV_Linux to make the modifications to the script and I don't mind making changes to the metadata stuff

[17:41:02]

[R]:

sphery: freaking AMC called the MASH movie M*A*S*H instead of MASH (which is what its supposed to be) and it kept showing up with my M*A*S*H tv shows... now its seperate

[17:41:20]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

[R] That happens to me all the time with series recording.

[17:41:21]

sphery:

heh

[17:42:02]

sphery:

I use that to edit titles of movies where I have sequels to make them group together (i.e. Die Hard 2 becomes Die Hard with a subtitle of 2)

[17:42:13]

[R]:

haha

[17:42:21]

gbee:

RDV_Linux: no, we can't use the full date, I scaled that dialog according to the old format which used "{title} ({year})", there really isn't the room for a full date and I don't fancy redesigning it

[17:42:50]

[R]:

sphery: do you not sort by date or do you just deal with them begin out of order?

[17:42:57]

sphery:

and Die Hard with a Vengeance would be Die Hard with a subtitle With a Vengeance (but I'd have to wait for that to hit broadcast TV :)

[17:43:23]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: Tomorrow I will look at tmdb and tvdb scripts to see of they both need to have <year> added. I will at least make the change for TMDB. I will leave the releasedate tag as it is but ADD a year tag.

[17:43:55]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: Of course I am only referring to the search function.

[17:44:00]

sphery:

I have it group by title so the die hards are in a group (left column)... right column is sorted by starttime desc for All Programs and original airdate asc for all other groups

[17:44:57]

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[17:45:02]

gbee:

RDV_Linux: we could just add a two-liner to the MetadataLookup class in libs/libmythui/ which would achieve the same thing

[17:45:02]

[R]:

original airdate... ah

[17:45:31]

iamlindoro:

gbee, It's fine, I'll just do that

[17:45:41]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: It is your guys call. Just know I am willing to do the work.

[17:45:45]

iamlindoro:

Just give me a few minutes to settle down, just walked in the door

[17:45:51]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Hey, the Dolby Digital light lit up on my amplifier for the first time.

[17:45:58]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I guess I finally configured it right

[17:46:13]

iamlindoro:

gbee, and/or feel free to make the change yourself if you like

[17:46:59]

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[17:52:10]

iamlindoro:

gbee, http://mythtv.pastebin.com/CFnZRxfg

[17:52:18]

iamlindoro:

Think that should be enough to get you year whenever there is a releasedate

[17:52:22]

iamlindoro:

untested

[17:54:20]

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[17:57:59]

iamlindoro:

gbee, Anyway, that disc (Moon) may give you issues-- usually when there are that many playlists it's a seamless branching disc-- the two that I have that do that are not yet playable with libbluray, so you may see the film freeze at the end of a playlist and then drop back to a menu

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[18:01:25]

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[18:02:33]

gbee:

I've already played it through once without issues, but only directly via mythavtest bd://

[18:02:42]

iamlindoro:

cool, sounds like it will be fine then

[18:03:03]

iamlindoro:

gbee, The ones I have to test with are multiangle seamless branching, and I have suspected that it was the multiangle that threw them off

[18:05:11]

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[18:05:17]

gbee:

iamlindoro: should it not use <year> when that is available and otherwise use the year portion of the releasedate? I'm thinking about metadata sources which may not provide <releasedate> but which do include <year>? Or would they just be expected to create a date like 0-0–1995 /

[18:05:58]

iamlindoro:

gbee, that's fine too, either way

[18:06:03]

gbee:

iamlindoro: and I'm happy to do the work, I just happened to leave the room at that point

[18:06:48]

iamlindoro:

gbee, I think using it when it exists and falling back to the releasedate year would work well, so good idea

[18:06:53]

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[18:07:28]

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[18:07:32]

momelod:

greetings channel

[18:08:33]

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[18:08:44]

momelod:

is there a recommended way to name files and a specific directory structure so that jamu can find the correct meta-data and so that mythvideo can organize the content in a usable way?

[18:08:57]

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[18:09:22]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo_File_Parsing

[18:09:49]

momelod:

thanks

[18:11:21]

momelod:

and what about the directory structure?

[18:11:46]

momelod:

is there a way to separate downloaded tv shows verses movies for example?

[18:12:32]

wagnerrp:

if they have a season and episode number, theyre a tv show

[18:12:34]

wagnerrp:

otherwise, a movie

[18:12:39]

[R]:

you mean kinda like making one directory called 'tv' and another one called 'movie'?

[18:14:34]

gbee:

"downloaded tv shows", you mean pirated stuff?

[18:14:41]

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[18:14:53]

[R]:

gbee: can't you download pbs stuff?

[18:15:33]

wagnerrp:

are you saying i can download red/green episodes?

[18:15:45]

[R]:

can't you download SOME pbs stuff?

[18:15:48]

[R]:

:P

[18:16:25]

wagnerrp:

i thought they only had such stuff available for free with an obligatory donation

[18:16:32]

[R]:

oh, i dunno

[18:16:38]

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[18:16:57]

gbee:

[R]: I'm sure you can, I'm just seeking clarification for the arrest warrant ;) They teach us to be thorough in the RCMP

[18:17:11]

[R]:

you're CANADIAN!?

[18:18:14]

[R]:

you know what would be extreme

[18:18:26]

[R]:

to be able to use myth's internal firewire channel changer outside of the context of firewire recordings

[18:18:27]

[R]:

right?

[18:19:11]

gbee:

no, but momelod is and the joke wouldn't have worked if I said Soco or similar

[18:20:51]

momelod:

i can separate them in directories.. but that is only good when using list view.. in browse or gallery view i cant easily switch between directories

[18:22:53]

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[18:30:53]

gbee:

iamlindoro: doesn't seem we handle null or incomplete <releasedate>, can we expect any of the metadata grabbers to return one without a valid year?

[18:32:53]

iamlindoro:

none of the current ones that I know of

[18:34:01]

gbee:

QDateTime defaults to 1900 when toString() either fails to parse a date or it's missing the year component, we don't really want to pass that to m_year if that's the case

[18:35:05]

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[18:35:24]

[R]:

ooo... is this for reals!? i think they put TBSHD on qam...

[18:35:42]

** [R] ponders if silicondust is lying to me **

[18:37:10]

[R]:

what's a good way to test random frequneices on QAM outside of myth?

[18:37:16]

[R]:

something with that zap thing or something?

[18:38:06]

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[18:38:12]

gbee:

iamlindoro: I'd add a check that m_year != 1900 but that will backfire later when MetadataLookup is used for music etc, so if we can assume that no valid metadata grabber will return an invalid releasedate then I'll just ignore it for now

[18:40:08]

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[18:42:42]

gbee:

iamlindoro: so we end up with something like this – http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1928514

[18:43:38]

gbee:

without the obvious error, releaseDate.isNull() vs releaseDate.isEmpty()

[18:44:07]

iamlindoro:

yeah, works for me

[18:44:18]

iamlindoro:

thanks for looking at it

[18:45:36]

gbee:

btw can those classes now be moved into the new libmythmetadata?

[18:46:29]

justinh:

[R]: possibly that program I abhor.. they call it w_scan IIRC

[18:46:33]

iamlindoro:

gbee, I was thinking about it this morning and I *think* so... though it means no unified image picker, but I was making no progress towards getting that done anyway

[18:49:05]

gbee:

we may be able to create a unified image selection dialog without depending directly on those metadata classes, but that's just an idle thought right now, mostly I'm considering how much more logical it would be for all metadata related classes to be in the metadata lib

[18:49:36]

[R]:

justinh: ah, yeah, i found some wiki stuff

[18:50:24]

iamlindoro:

gbee, Yes, I agree. I have been hitting it kind of hard lately so I am trying to consciously avoid myth today, but I will look at it in the next couple of days

[18:52:25]

gbee:

iamlindoro: that's fine :)

[18:53:00]

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[18:53:30]

gbee:

I'm still stuck in first gear after my holiday, just trying to get upto speed again

[19:10:41]

gbee:

heh, two of the search results for "The Bourne Identity" were intriguing so I looked them up, http://www.themoviedb.org/movie/31820 http://www.themoviedb.org/movie/42334

[19:11:04]

gbee:

they say that most comedians steal their jokes, but stealing title ideas?

[19:11:55]

AndyCap:

heh, I remember seeing "The night of the running man" and "The night of the Twister" in the local video store a few years back

[19:20:47]

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[19:30:29]

Beirdo:

ok, time to go out for food, then see if I can't make mythsystem.cpp work better

[19:38:13]

justinh:

hahaha I'd never tested my ffwd & rew remote buttons. too many repeats

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[19:56:56]

[R]:

omg i am so extreme... i'm gonna write a script that verifies that all the QAM channels I have in my database are correct and figure out if there are any new onws

[19:57:16]

[R]:

i just found out, but aparently the silicondust channel db outputs in XML

[19:58:23]

wagnerrp:

apparently theres a mythtv channel scanner somewhere on the SD forums that either works off the SD library, or channel database directly

[19:58:26]

wagnerrp:

i dont know which

[19:58:43]

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[19:59:43]

[R]:

hrm

[20:05:14]

[R]:

wagnerrp: how do i switch the inputs in livetv?

[20:05:25]

wagnerrp:

'm' menu

[20:05:33]

wagnerrp:

or theres probably a hotkey you can bind

[20:06:05]

[R]:

oh i guess it doenst mater

[20:06:08]

[R]:

my first tuner is in use

[20:06:42]

[R]:

SWEET... i got TBSHD on QAM now

[20:15:16]

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[20:15:53]

Saviq:

hi all, is it possible to enable text subtitles by default? so that I don't have to press 'T' when there are text subtitles available?

[20:18:48]

justinh:

not AFAIK

[20:24:34]

gbee:

Saviq: yes, under the settings somewhere

[20:25:14]

Saviq:

gbee: any pointers what / where should I look?

[20:25:48]

justinh:

tv settings > playback more than likely

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[20:28:05]

Saviq:

'Always display...' in playback OSD

[20:28:15]

justinh:

heh I just found it there

[20:28:54]

justinh:

come to think about it for a sec I seem to remember specifically having to disable it at one point so maybe it used to be the default setting

[20:29:17]

dustybin:

is there a such thing as a mythtv menu layout? ie snapshots of all the menus and how to navigate there etc

[20:29:48]

wagnerrp:

the main menus are defined in xml files

[20:30:13]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: im thinking of a webpage, what just shows you where everything is and how to navigate

[20:30:34]

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[20:30:34]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[20:31:35]

[R]:

is this chanid used elsewhere besides the channel table?

[20:31:44]

wagnerrp:

lotsa places

[20:31:56]

[R]:

ok.. i'll fix ti right now before i record anything on it

[20:32:40]

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[20:32:51]

sphery:

there's a reason that MythTV comes with a UI for editing the parts of the database that you /can/ edit

[20:33:01]

sphery:

and mysql command line client is /not/ that UI

[20:34:17]

[R]:

oh, can i change the channel id in the channel editor? hrm

[20:34:18]

[R]:

i guess i'll do taht

[20:34:39]

sphery:

no, that's what I'm saying--you /can't/ change the channel ID

[20:34:44]

sphery:

there's no reason to ever do so

[20:34:57]

justinh:

changing the chanid can break untold amounts of stuff

[20:35:00]

sphery:

you can change channel number, name, callsign, xmltvid, ...

[20:35:07]

[R]:

thats why i'm gonna change it right now... before its used (i just added it)

[20:35:09]

sphery:

but the channel ID is /not/ user-editable data

[20:35:26]

justinh:

chanid is automagically generated and should *never* be changed

[20:35:29]

wagnerrp:

why do you think you need to change the chanid?

[20:35:32]

wagnerrp:

its arbitrary

[20:35:34]

Beirdo:

why does it seem that everything is "braking" compilation on Windows....

[20:35:34]

wagnerrp:

it holds no meaning

[20:35:39]

Beirdo:

rather than "breaking"

[20:35:51]

[R]:

in mythweb

[20:35:52]

justinh:

Beirdo: oh, you mean slowing it down? Meh

[20:35:55]

[R]:

you can see the channel id in the urls

[20:36:01]

[R]:

and thats how i know which tuner its gonna record on

[20:36:14]

Beirdo:

justinh: there's at least one user who always seems to use the wrong word...

[20:36:32]

Beirdo:

hhahaha

[20:36:33]

justinh:

[R]: ruh? afaik chanid is videosource*1000 + some other number

[20:36:42]

justinh:

not necessarily *tuner*

[20:36:47]

Beirdo:

an implosion is the exact opposite of an explosion

[20:36:51]

Beirdo:

no duh!

[20:36:56]

sphery:

and not necessarily even that algorithm, either

[20:37:00]

[R]:

justinh: yes... and source 1 is my first tuner and source 2 is my second tuner

[20:37:04]

justinh:

inflammable/flammable? ;-)

[20:37:08]

sphery:

the only guarantee is that chanid is /always/ unique within a system

[20:37:16]

[R]:

justinh: and my default "some other number" is the channel number

[20:37:30]

sphery:

[R]: again, why do you need to change it?

[20:37:36]

sphery:

since it's already unique...

[20:37:52]

[R]:

sphery: so i know which tuner and channel in mythweb when i'm looking at links

[20:37:55]

sphery:

if you really think that some chanid in mythweb has important, just get to know the ones it gives you

[20:38:07]

[R]:

OR... i can just make them "right" for me

[20:38:12]

justinh:

sigh

[20:38:16]

justinh:

you shouldn't do that

[20:38:29]

[R]:

2001 means nothing... but 2716 means tbs hd on my qam tuner

[20:38:29]

sphery:

and note, also, that I can not think of any place at all where the chanid is shown that it would actually say which tuner will record something

[20:38:44]

[R]:

sphery: in upcoming rrecording, if you look at the url of the link, it has the chanidc

[20:38:45]

justinh:

but then I realise you probably inserted the channel yourself using mysql kludging

[20:38:52]

[R]:

justinh: no, i scanned

[20:38:58]

[R]:

justinh: but then i edited it with sql :)

[20:40:45]

justinh:

you remember Spot the cat from Hong Kong Phooey & how he used to go 'oh boy' in exasperation? ;-)

[20:40:59]

sphery:

meh, how important could proper data be, anyway?

[20:41:18]

[R]:

hrm... if TBS and TBSHD are the same... i can get rid of TBS

[20:41:21]

** [R] laughs evilly **

[20:41:57]

[R]:

what happens if i delete a channel through the channel editor and something had preiovlsy recorded on it?

[20:42:05]

justinh:

dontcha mean get rid of *P* BS? ;-)

[20:42:09]

[R]:

and its still in my recording list

[20:42:18]

justinh:

[R]: it'd list the chanid

[20:42:23]

justinh:

rather than the channel name etc

[20:42:32]

[R]:

another GREAT example of why the chanid should make sense :P

[20:42:50]

justinh:

chanid is INTERNAL to mythtv

[20:43:00]

wagnerrp:

[R]: no, another great example of why chanid should be better hidden from the user

[20:43:01]

justinh:

it doesn't have to make sense to anybody but mythtv internals

[20:43:04]

[R]:

wagnerrp: ahha

[20:43:12]

[R]:

justinh: but if its gonna display it to the user...

[20:43:29]

justinh:

it's not

[20:43:35]

** Beirdo yawns **

[20:43:43]

justinh:

ok maybe in a URL bu that's still an internal process IMHO

[20:43:44]

[R]:

justinh: you jujst said it would

[20:43:51]

Beirdo:

OK... mythsystem.cpp, you are about to get mangled

[20:43:53]

[R]:

[01:42:18] justinh [R]: it'd list the chanid

[20:44:10]

justinh:

yes IF your setup was borked by it trying to list a channel which no longer existed

[20:44:15]

justinh:

it's a fallback

[20:44:21]

justinh:

edge case

[20:44:33]

[R]:

ok, i'm smart enough to knwo to never suggest stuff like this to regular users

[20:44:35]

justinh:

the code should probably say UNKNOWN instead

[20:44:42]

[R]:

and i know i get to keep all my peices when things break

[20:45:02]

justinh:

and you know there are very good reasons we try to discourage this kind of messing around

[20:45:18]

[R]:

you gotta live a little... thats what backups are for

[20:45:25]

justinh:

because they *all* come in here when they've broken everything with their clod-handed tinkering

[20:45:46]

justinh:

NO. it's US who they end up speaking to when they come in here, cap in hand

[20:46:18]

justinh:

and you know what... telling them "booo fricking hoo, just restore your backup" never really seems to be what the expect to get from us

[20:46:45]

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[20:46:55]

[R]:

like i said... i'd never suggest it

[20:47:20]

justinh:

we're very much practitioners of whatever we preach here. to the death

[20:47:39]

sphery:

[R]: backends only help out when you figure out you borked things /before/ the next recording

[20:47:48]

sphery:

as soon as you record something new, the backup is useless

[20:48:18]

sphery:

and, generally, editing random data in the DB is a ticking time bomb--you'll find out you broke things at a point when the backups won't help

[20:48:21]

justinh:

record something new, or change a setting, or schedule something new.. or delete a recording..

[20:48:38]

justinh:

basically if *anything* changes :-)

[20:49:18]

justinh:

which is most likely why a lot of settings require mythbackend be stopped first – aside from the fact a lot of settings are only read at startup

[20:50:21]

sphery:

Look at all the people who were actively changing the column data encoding--everything worked fine after they did. Then, years later, they found their DB was so broken, they had to start over.

[20:50:59]

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[20:51:06]

justinh:

we only ever try to save users from themselves, honest

[20:52:17]

justinh:

well, after outting myself as a confirmed anti apple fanboi I've had to cut everybody I used to work with from my FB list. Never really liked em anyway

[20:53:52]

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[20:53:54]

justinh:

next time anybody says "just get a mac"... seriously. Yeah I said.. "£900 for a laptop I can't replace the battery of without major surgery.. and has a mere 13 inch screen. Pull the other one". Met with a hell of a lot of hostility

[20:54:43]

Wicked:

does mythtv keep track of recordings it failed to record?

[20:55:23]

justinh:

in 0.23 it doesn't even *know* anything failed to record really

[20:55:24]

Wicked:

ie if there was a conflict...or if it was scheduled to record something...but the power went out...only to be turned on after it was supposed to record

[20:55:37]

Wicked:

:o

[20:55:58]

justinh:

stuff appears in the logs, but it'll never take action to reschedule something

[20:56:11]

[R]:

Wicked: if the power went out before the recording... it'll know it didnt record it

[20:56:17]

Wicked:

ok

[20:56:18]

justinh:

that, I read somewhere... is about to change

[20:56:39]

Wicked:

and it doesnt keep track of shows it failed to record due to conflics?

[20:56:57]

justinh:

the power going out before the showing & power returning after the showing isn't what myth would call a failed recording though

[20:57:07]

Beirdo:

WHAT?!

[20:57:10]

justinh:

it'd still have it on its 'to record' list

[20:57:11]

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[20:57:18]

Wicked:

i have a tendency to not check often enough if shows are conflicting...and now after a few years...my recording rules are starting to amass to alot...

[20:57:22]

Beirdo:

Effin Science is making a USB-powered toaster?!

[20:57:25]

Beirdo:

I think not

[20:57:30]

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[20:57:40]

justinh:

Beirdo: USB3 – 500Watts outta one port! ;-)

[20:57:57]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: uses a large capacitor bank, and 2 days to charge

[20:58:03]

[R]:

how do you clear out all your guide data?

[20:58:13]

justinh:

[R]: rm -rf

[20:58:13]

wagnerrp:

'truncate program;'

[20:58:24]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: it must

[20:58:25]

[R]:

justinh: har har

[20:58:50]

justinh:

so USB3 isn't gonna be powerful enough to run a small cooking appliance? man that's disappointing

[20:59:16]

justinh:

Beirdo: The Onion did a great spoof peice on a USB toaster a couple of years ago

[20:59:47]

justinh:

you could buy packaging that looked like the real deal & all

[20:59:53]

Beirdo:

justinh: yah, but these tards are posing themselves as science experts

[21:00:02]

wagnerrp:

http://www.amazon.com/USB-POWERED-TRAVEL-TOAS . . . p/B001U1Y996

[21:00:06]

justinh:

so do people on slashdot

[21:00:23]

Beirdo:

you COULD run a toaster off USB, but it would take FOREVER to toast something at what? 100mW?

[21:00:33]

wagnerrp:

500

[21:00:40]

justinh:

maybe it's a USB *controlled* toaster then

[21:00:40]

Beirdo:

sorry :)

[21:00:53]

wagnerrp:

whats a toaster? 500W?

[21:01:01]

Beirdo:

no, they specifically said "powered by the 5V coming out of your computer"

[21:01:05]

justinh:

maybe more. depends how many slices it does :)

[21:01:05]

wagnerrp:

takes ~2min to run?

[21:01:16]

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[21:01:19]

justinh:

freaking big capacitor lol

[21:01:22]

Beirdo:

like the laptop's power supply can handle the current to drive a toaster :)

[21:01:27]

wagnerrp:

that means... only 34hrs to charge

[21:01:30]

Beirdo:

yeah, take a day to charge

[21:01:34]

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[21:04:12]

justinh:

eew. effin science itunes only?

[21:04:23]

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[21:04:40]

justinh:

that sucks

[21:05:02]

justinh:

PAID for too? oof

[21:05:13]

justinh:

gotta love 'internet tv' huh

[21:09:24]

[R]:

i've read through the source a bunch of time... i can't figure out what the 'callsignnetworkmap' table is for

[21:14:08]

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[21:17:03]

Beirdo:

Oooh, Scrubs while I code. yay

[21:17:25]

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[21:22:28]

dustybin:

Beirdo: do you code with vim?

[21:23:10]

[R]:

HAHA

[21:23:13]

** [R] smacks himself **

[21:23:22]

Beirdo:

dustybin: of course I do

[21:23:44]

dustybin:

could of been emacs?

[21:24:07]

justinh:

well that confirms one of my suspicions. people who readily mess with their db really are taking something ;-)

[21:24:25]

Beirdo:

emacs?! you insane?

[21:24:31]

dserban_:

emacs? wth

[21:24:47]

justinh:

emacs.. on the joggler. Of course!

[21:25:17]

Beirdo:

if I weren't using vim, I'd probably use Eclipse as choice #2

[21:25:56]

justinh:

to paraphrase Mork somewhat.. nano nano

[21:26:07]

Beirdo:

ewwww

[21:26:12]

Beirdo:

no nano. ever

[21:26:18]

dustybin:

notepad.exe

[21:26:26]

justinh:

heheh

[21:26:51]

dustybin:

vim is ok to use , vi is a nightmware

[21:27:02]

Beirdo:

if you say so

[21:27:12]

justinh:

if I could ever remember regex to save my life I'd prolly be a seasoned vi user still

[21:27:44]

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[21:27:48]

justinh:

in my first proper job I *had* to use vi for everything.. email, the lot

[21:27:57]

dustybin:

vim can do tabs, i think thats pretty cool

[21:28:05]

dustybin:

eeeek

[21:28:45]

justinh:

then when Sun bought us & we all got spanky new sparcstation2s I kinda lapsed ;)

[21:28:55]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:29:36]

justinh:

quite a leap, from an 80x25 TTY :-D

[21:30:13]

Beirdo:

funny enough...

[21:30:22]

Beirdo:

I use 80x25 almost exclusively

[21:30:33]

Beirdo:

other than when coding, then I do 80x50 or so

[21:30:34]

sphery:

http://wordwarvi.sourceforge.net/

[21:31:22]

dustybin:

ace

[21:31:39]

justinh:

lol

[21:31:41]

sphery:

I'm way better at vi than at that game

[21:33:14]

dustybin:

will that game teach you vi keys?

[21:33:53]

justinh:

I never used to wonder how good 'v' was as an editor.. or even (shudder) 'iv'

[21:36:04]

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[21:36:33]

sphery:

dustybin: Not so much... Keyboard controls aren't so great and are more like other games than like vi--they suggest using a joystick or gamepad. Mainly that game teaches you that emacs is evil.

[21:36:54]

sphery:

and, really, if you know that, learning vi will follow

[21:37:10]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[21:38:06]

dustybin:

the guy in the middle wrote the first ever emacs: http://stallman.org/RMS_13_bendicindo.jpg

[21:38:38]

sphery:

Is that St IGNUcius?

[21:40:04]

Tomas-:

Why is my mythvideo trying to stream video from my backend using myth://Videos@ip.... uri when I haven't got any storagegroup for videos?

[21:40:28]

gbee:

Tomas-: which version?

[21:40:30]

Tomas-:

I thought it should try local storage i.e. nfs/samba

[21:41:14]

iamlindoro:

If it's trying to stream it, you *do* have video SGs, or did when you scanned those videos in

[21:41:19]

Tomas-:

gbee: release-0-23–1

[21:41:30]

Tomas-:

iamlindoro: ah... that could be it..

[21:41:35]

Tomas-:

i did when i added them

[21:41:40]

iamlindoro:

So rescan

[21:42:18]

Tomas-:

gah, I'll try to avoid that, already cleaned up most of the metadata... I'll try to clear the backend field in the videometadata table

[21:42:58]

iamlindoro:

assuming you have not messed with your DB improperly, and your system is properly configured, a rescan will not remove the metadata

[21:43:24]

iamlindoro:

but hey, what do I know

[21:43:24]

Tomas-:

oki, I'll make a backup and give it a try

[21:43:33]

Tomas-:

thanks

[21:43:53]

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[22:19:27]

wagnerrp:

Tomas-: why dont you want to use storage groups

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[22:22:46]

Tomas-:

wagnerrp: I tried it and had some problems adding new items directly to the db, I don't have the time to learn something new just now

[22:23:09]

wagnerrp:

you shouldnt be adding stuff directly to the database

[22:24:22]

justinh:

maybe these people need a different kind of media centre app, all done in 21 lines of perl

[22:24:44]

wagnerrp:

but thats only half the answer

[22:24:48]

Tomas-:

why not? I don't like the idea to have to enter a meny, select scan for changes every time I want to watch something

[22:25:15]

wagnerrp:

and manually tinkering away in sql is better?

[22:25:22]

Tomas-:

takes around 5–6s to scan, and I haven't added all items yet

[22:25:49]

justinh:

just how transient is all your media anyway? ;-)

[22:25:50]

Tomas-:

wagnerrp: yes... then my download (as from videorecorder and torrents etc) -script does it for my automaticly...

[22:26:00]

Tomas-:

er... for me

[22:27:14]

Tomas-:

I hate this notion that SQL is dangerous and you should NEVER EVER touch it, I always get that in this channel

[22:27:37]

Flash_:

Tomas-, i got the same when i wanted to delete files directly from the filesystem. :)

[22:27:59]

Tomas-:

You should never do that!

[22:28:03]

Tomas-:

<:

[22:28:06]

Flash_:

lol

[22:28:16]

wagnerrp:

no, you shouldnt, because then you leave orphaned data in the database

[22:28:30]

Tomas-:

wagnerrp: ofcourse

[22:28:39]

Flash_:

yes, my problem then. however i do want to, and so i wrote a script to remove orphaned data

[22:28:50]

justinh:

no, you shouldn't because people take ages making a GUI for users to do this kind of stuff without running the risk of severely breaking things

[22:29:07]

wagnerrp:

and you made sure to clean things out of the dozen different tables that recordings have stuff stored in?

[22:29:13]

Flash_:

same for renaming the files into human-friendly things after mythrename was retired.

[22:29:21]

Flash_:

Tomas-, you see? :)

[22:29:22]

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[22:29:27]

justinh:

and no you shouldn't, because we in here are sick to the back teeth of trying to help users recover their haemoraged DBs when there was no need for it to happen

[22:29:29]

wagnerrp:

mythrename still exists, it got renamed to mythlink

[22:29:35]

wagnerrp:

because you shouldnt be renaming files

[22:29:57]

justinh:

if you *want* mythtv to name files in a more human readable form maybe fix the code to do it

[22:30:26]

Flash_:

I did, like i said. http://digdilem.org/?q=node/66

[22:30:52]

justinh:

what is this tonight anyway? Gang up on common sense & beat the crap out of it night?

[22:31:04]

Flash_:

heh

[22:31:20]

wagnerrp:

Flash_: how did mythlink result in duplicate files?

[22:31:31]

justinh:

mythlink makes *symlinks*

[22:31:36]

Flash_:

what happened to the old philosphy of "You're free to fiddle and you get to keep both parts if it breaks"

[22:31:42]

Tomas-:

justinh: just trying to get you to view the other side of the coin :)

[22:31:43]

gbee:

of course we discourage users directly messing with either files or database, because a significant number screw it up badly and then either blame mythtv for their own stupid mistakes or expect us to help them sort it out

[22:31:49]

Flash_:

exactly, i did not want symlinks since I access the recorded dir via samba

[22:31:50]

justinh:

Flash_: we're saying we don't condone it

[22:32:00]

Flash_:

all mtythlink does is double the number of files in that dir

[22:32:10]

Flash_:

and you can't delete the one you want.

[22:32:14]

wagnerrp:

thats why you give it... a second directory to create the links in

[22:32:15]

justinh:

Flash_: you'd access the symlinks over the share. that'd be the smart way

[22:32:22]

Flash_:

myth, for me, is purely a pvr, NOT a playback device.

[22:32:37]

wagnerrp:

and you can create multiple links, with different formatting for different ways of searchin

[22:32:37]

wagnerrp:

g

[22:32:38]

Flash_:

deleting the symlink doesn't delete the original file

[22:32:42]

justinh:

so?

[22:32:48]

sid3windr:

that's ok

[22:32:49]

Flash_:

so I end up with a full disk...

[22:32:50]

sid3windr:

they expire

[22:32:53]

justinh:

you'd be doing unsupported stuff otherwise

[22:33:09]

Tomas-:

I upgraded then downgraded my live mythtv installation sucessfully two times (before 0.21-fixes) by tinkering in the database, not once did and cry here about it and yes, I do keep backups :)

[22:33:11]

wagnerrp:

when you delete a file, mythtv has no way of knowing if you have actually deleted the file, or if there is a failed disk, or corrupted data

[22:33:17]

wagnerrp:

so on the safe side, it does nothing

[22:33:23]

wagnerrp:

expecting youre going to fix it at some point

[22:33:48]

justinh:

Tomas-: for every one user who doesn't, there are plenty who do

[22:33:52]

Flash_:

for my use, which I don't expect anyone else to share, I would like myth to automatically remove entries every now and then for files that don't exist.

[22:34:22]

Flash_:

fact is, instead of telling me to use other pvr's, of which i've tried most of them, I'd quite like to adapt myth to fit my needs

[22:34:43]

Tomas-:

justinh: true, anyway, got everyting working now (by tinkering with the videometatable) Good night :)

[22:34:43]

Flash_:

so I have done. It's a great bit of software, I love mythweb and the logic of deferring recordings

[22:35:39]

Flash_:

there's nothing out there that does what I want exactly, but myth is closest :)

[22:36:22]

justinh:

heh I remember when I started out – I was using XBMC to look at a mythlink'd SAMBA share as ONEBIGLIST(tm)

[22:36:36]

justinh:

but I still used mythweb to delete a recording

[22:37:00]

justinh:

I don't miss the xbox one little bit. ugly, noisy piece of crap

[22:37:32]

Flash_:

btw sid3windr, taht's a good point about expiring, but sometimess i let things sit for ages before i watch them.

[22:38:14]

wagnerrp:

Flash_: if you really want to delete the content, you still shouldnt do it manually in the database

[22:38:22]

wagnerrp:

issue the proper command for the backend to do so

[22:38:27]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/DELETE_RECORDING_%28Myth_Protocol%29

[22:38:39]

Flash_:

alas, even with unlimited ram and timeouts extended for php, listing all the stuff for 8 days on both dvb-t and dvb-s teaks about ten minutes to show :(

[22:38:59]

justinh:

yeah I get that too

[22:39:06]

Flash_:

wagnerrp, thanks. might be an idea if i amend my script to remove all references in the db once i rename it

[22:39:11]

justinh:

so use the 'recorded shows' bit of mythweb less these days

[22:39:54]

wagnerrp:

also, its preferable to use the perl bindings to connect to the database automatically, rather than doing it manually yourself through the DBI module

[22:40:00]

justinh:

don't really have much time to look into *why* it's so slow but apparently it isn't so slow for others

[22:40:43]

Flash_:

wagnerrp, noted. was a quick and dirty solution when i was pissed at mythlink breaking what worked for me in the past :)

[22:40:44]

wagnerrp:

the perl bindings will read the config.xml to find the database credentials, alternatively searching for the backend over UPnP

[22:41:00]

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[22:41:04]

wagnerrp:

and will provide a mechanism to access the backend and issue that delete command

[22:41:20]

Flash_:

and will be more stable in case of future db changes

[22:42:00]

wagnerrp:

well everything is going to get broken shortly after the 0.24 release

[22:42:34]

gbee:

hehe

[22:43:22]

justinh:

moving to the oft-threatened integrated db already?

[22:43:35]

wagnerrp:

nah, merging videos and recordings

[22:43:52]

justinh:

heh

[22:44:01]

justinh:

ach well. bedtime. I is pooped

[22:44:36]

gbee:

actually embedding the db is currently on a provisional list of goals for 0.25, I'm not sure it will actually happen before 0.26 though

[22:45:19]

gbee:

at this stage it's well past a notion or even a threat, it will happen and it will happen sooner rather than later

[22:45:32]

gbee:

but 0.25 is going to be busy enough

[22:46:11]

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[22:49:09]

gbee:

the kicking and screaming from a tiny minority is going to be fun, but the vast majority will love the change and it will be a whole lot better for newbies, should be well worth the effort

[22:51:07]

[R]:

i thought you could still use msyql command line stuff because the db files will still be accessible in ~/.mythtv

[22:51:34]

wagnerrp:

[R]: the database files will still be in mysql format

[22:51:51]

wagnerrp:

and if you wanted to, you could point mysqld at them, and access them externally as normal

[22:51:57]

[R]:

then why does everyone complain?

[22:52:03]

wagnerrp:

however you could only do that while the backend is not running

[22:52:14]

wagnerrp:

you cannot have two database servers hitting the same files at the same time

[22:52:34]

sid3windr:

it won't be optional?

[22:52:41]

sid3windr:

to have it use the internal mysql?

[22:53:02]

wagnerrp:

no

[22:53:13]

[R]:

i try not to edit db while the backend is running anyway

[22:53:19]

fedorared:

I forsee distributions patching it out to use system mysqld

[22:53:32]

sid3windr:

ok – I assume there will be some knob to have it make a dump of the db then

[22:53:42]

sid3windr:

I currently connect with mysqldump remotely from another box to do a db backup

[22:53:45]

sid3windr:

:)

[22:54:02]

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[22:54:05]

wagnerrp:

yes, database backups will be managed automatically by the backend

[22:54:17]

[R]:

i like it cuz its less deps

[22:54:33]

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[22:54:44]

sid3windr:

you mean instead of mysql-server it'll require libmysql-builtin-server ? ;)

[22:55:03]

sid3windr:

wagnerrp: does it also mean frontends won't need access to the db anymore but will be able to access everything over myth protocol?

[22:55:18]

sid3windr:

because I guess they can't anymore if mysql is ran from within the backend

[22:56:00]

wagnerrp:

that hasnt yet been decided

[22:56:16]

wagnerrp:

whether to simply proxy SQL statements from the frontends

[22:56:31]

wagnerrp:

only allow use of stored statements

[22:56:41]

wagnerrp:

or expand myth protocol, and disallow sql entirely

[22:57:35]

wagnerrp:

there will be just as many deps, since its still going to be a mysql server

[22:57:38]

wagnerrp:

just an embedded one

[22:57:39]

sid3windr:

I like the last one best, but that would be a bit of a problem for nonstandard frontend plugins :)

[22:57:53]

[R]:

wagnerrp: but mysql deps on the frontend

[22:58:20]

sid3windr:

(dep, not deps)

[22:59:05]

wagnerrp:

sid3windr: one of the considerations was changing to something similar to google protobuf for data transfer

[22:59:22]

sid3windr:

I have no clue what it is, so I'll go and look it up ;)

[22:59:46]

wagnerrp:

its a data object handler

[22:59:56]

wagnerrp:

for serializing data to disk or network

[22:59:58]

sid3windr:

ok – got it :)

[23:00:11]

sid3windr:

like myth's ][][ or whatever it is, but better? :)

[23:00:27]

wagnerrp:

more robust

[23:01:01]

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[23:01:43]

wagnerrp:

if youve ever used xml, or json, or any of the other serialization or marshaling libraries in other languages, its much of the same

[23:04:19]

sid3windr:

:)

[23:06:00]

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[23:09:02]

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[23:10:57]

iamlindoro:

Gibby, Please please please don't post stuff like that to our tickets

[23:11:06]

wagnerrp:

was just about to say that...

[23:11:10]

iamlindoro:

That's exactly the stuff we lock tickets for

[23:11:15]

iamlindoro:

it's obnoxious as hell

[23:12:02]

iamlindoro:

"let's get this into the upstream immediately" first off, it doesn't get any more upstream, it's our code, and second off, it adds *nothing* and only makes cranky people like me less likely to look at the ticket our of irritation

[23:19:00]

** xand makes note not to ever upgrade to 0.25 (or 0.26?) **

[23:19:53]

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[23:20:14]

wagnerrp:

why is that?

[23:20:29]

wagnerrp:

the plan isnt to completely remove manual access to the data

[23:20:33]

xand:

if the database is going to be integrated into the backend

[23:20:46]

wagnerrp:

its to control it

[23:22:51]

wagnerrp:

its to ensure the backend manages it

[23:23:05]

wagnerrp:

so it can handle data corruption, database maintenance, and the like

[23:23:22]

xand:

how will it be accessible then?

[23:23:33]

wagnerrp:

not yet decided

[23:24:40]

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[23:24:45]

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[23:24:47]

sphery:

we're leaning toward od and sed, though

[23:25:17]

wagnerrp:

at the very least, theres going to have to be some form of raw access for 3rd party plugins to use

[23:25:26]

i_is_cat:

does a slave backend need to have its own sql database running if it has its own tuner?

[23:25:39]

wagnerrp:

no, mythtv only uses a single database

[23:25:43]

sphery:

no, actually 3rd party plugins will have to access it properly through the backend

[23:25:55]

sphery:

if the data they want isn't available, we'll have to fix it

[23:26:12]

wagnerrp:

and if they want to create their own tables for storage?

[23:26:12]

sphery:

the /whole/ point is that only one controller should ever touch the database data directly

[23:26:30]

sphery:

they'll still do it through the backend

[23:26:33]

sphery:

not sure how

[23:26:38]

i_is_cat:

hmm well my remote frontend works fine with my master backend, but the new slave backend im trying to setup on that same machine is saying that it is incompatible with the master

[23:26:55]

wagnerrp:

incompatible how?

[23:27:12]

i_is_cat:

protocol version check failure

[23:27:29]

wagnerrp:

then you are running two different versions of mythtv

[23:27:33]

wagnerrp:

one needs to be upgraded

[23:28:05]

** xand wonders how you could get from that error to thinking it needs its own db **

[23:28:08]

i_is_cat:

thats pretty much what i was thinking.. i just find it weird that the frontend would work but the backend wont? they're the same machine..

[23:28:31]

wagnerrp:

somehow you have a different version of the frontend and backend installed

[23:28:33]

wagnerrp:

or

[23:28:45]

wagnerrp:

you started the frontend, and have subsequently upgraded mythtv

[23:28:53]

wagnerrp:

leaving the running frontend and backend old

[23:29:46]

i_is_cat:

hmm thats weird, oh well, thanks for confirming my thoughts on having to upgrade one of them :)

[23:30:02]

wagnerrp:

what is the exact error?

[23:31:09]

i_is_cat:

http://pastebin.com/y6aPU1ze

[23:31:39]

wagnerrp:

now thats something different

[23:31:47]

wagnerrp:

typically due to a misconfiguration somewhere

[23:31:53]

i_is_cat:

hmm

[23:41:49]

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[23:48:08]

Gibby_2:

ne1 use ovh or feral?

[23:48:20]

i_is_cat:

any suggestions what to check? im still checking google but for the most part im coming up with changing the ip from 127 to the real ip of the box which didnt help..

[23:49:25]

wagnerrp:

i_is_cat: if you want to use external frontends/backends, you must have a routable ip, 127.0.0.1 wont work

[23:50:31]

i_is_cat:

ya well i wasnt using a slave backend, just a frontend so i left the local backend settings default.. now im trying to get the backend up on that box and i changed it to the box's 192 address..

[23:50:57]

i_is_cat:

but the master backend settings were set properly, because the frontend was working and connecting.. and still does actually

[23:51:25]

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[23:51:38]

i_is_cat:

its just the slave backend that's giving me problems :/

[23:54:58]

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[23:59:51]

Beirdo:

Yay.

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