Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, August 11th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:06]

rmeden:

I'm looking into the Schedules Direct problem (in case it was reported here)

[00:00:21]

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[00:05:05]

** Captain_Murdoch likes that the new trac shows you the function the change was in when looking at a diff **

[00:06:27]

Beirdo:

I think that might just be the output of git diff that gives that

[00:07:03]

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[00:08:58]

Captain_Murdoch:

ok. it does look like that patch is optional, it only uses the fast mode if you set that CommFlagFast setting, so people would have to turn it on to use it, so as long as it doesn't break existing code then I wouldn't see issues with it going in. the #if 0 part for blank frame stuff would make sense also if we could get that working sometime. no reason to decode the whole frame if we're only doing blank frame detection.

[00:09:22]

** Captain_Murdoch has to run, may be back later, maybe not. **

[00:09:39]

Beirdo:

umm, no

[00:09:47]

Beirdo:

it turns it on by default in main.cpp

[00:10:38]

Beirdo:

if the setting is there, it will override the default

[00:10:44]

Beirdo:

but the default is to turn it on

[00:11:07]

Beirdo:

and actually, I will tweak that

[00:11:22]

Beirdo:

make it so if there's no setting, it returns -1, not 0.

[00:11:37]

Beirdo:

as otherwise, there's no way to turn it OFF :)

[00:12:09]

Beirdo:

anyways, I'm outta here too. Post office (with the video card) and then home

[00:12:53]

wagnerrp:

how do i tell the link speed of a network connection in linux?

[00:14:48]

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[00:16:33]

wagnerrp:

looks like ethtool will do it

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[00:46:59]

bcgrown:

hello all, I've got a rather frustrating issue that I hope you can help me with. My frontend seems to shut itself down at random. I suspect that what's happening is that mythfrontend loses focus or somehow shares focus with MythWelcome, and "Shutdown Now" ends up getting selected in MythWelcome. I didn't see anything obvious in the mythtv logs. I also can't easily reproduce the problem :(

[00:48:48]

wagnerrp:

is there a backend running on that machine?

[00:48:51]

bcgrown:

yes

[00:49:29]

bcgrown:

oh, forgot the most important part. it's one button/combination of buttons on the remote that always causes it.

[00:50:10]

bcgrown:

( which is why I suspect the focus issue, because those buttons *would* select the shutdown option

[00:50:12]

bcgrown:

)

[00:50:59]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: ok, that's what I was curious about – if it was basically a straight API thing or if there was some "mythfu" going on with the query and/or the results – thanks

[00:53:24]

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[00:54:33]

Wicked:

j-rod, you had helped me out getting my hauppaguge pvr-150 ir working in fedora12...it was due to some changes in the kernel...something about changes to lirc_zilog or something along those lines....im thinking of switching from fedora to centos and im wondering if im gonna run into those issues with the kernel or if it should work fine out of the box.

[01:00:10]

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[01:05:54]

bcgrown:

wagnerrp: it seems that mythwelcome is receiving lirc commands that are not intended for it

[01:07:10]

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[01:13:26]

k-man:

i created a ticket in track, is there some way to email the owner of the ticket directly?

[01:17:09]

skd5aner:

k-man: what ticket?

[01:17:29]

skd5aner:

k-man: your best bet might just to be to mail the mythtv-dev mailing list

[01:17:35]

k-man:

8520

[01:18:10]

k-man:

markk has asked me to test if the problem still appears in trunk, but I'm not sure when I'll have a chance to check

[01:18:21]

k-man:

ok, thanks skd5aner

[01:18:55]

skd5aner:

the owner was assigned by someone else, and it has not been accepted, so I see where Mark asked for the logs, but robertm also just asked you to check and see if the problem exists in trunk

[01:19:15]

k-man:

oh... robertm asked me

[01:19:41]

k-man:

oh yeah, thanks for pointing that out

[01:19:41]

skd5aner:

yes... he also hangs out in this room

[01:20:08]

k-man:

anyone running trunk with the mythcenter theme?

[01:20:21]

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[01:20:45]

k-man:

thanks skd5aner

[01:21:25]

skd5aner:

k-man: this is usually a quiet part of the night in here... might just have to hang around for a while or try tomorrow but if you just leave a message here for iamlindoro, he's the one who triaged that ticket

[01:21:38]

k-man:

skd5aner: thanks

[01:21:43]

skd5aner:

he will likely see your message whenever he returns

[01:21:51]

skd5aner:

np

[01:28:38]

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[01:28:44]

mattwj2002:

hi guys

[01:28:55]

mattwj2002:

will the new hdhomerun prime work with linux?

[01:29:00]

mattwj2002:

I heard a rumor it will

[01:30:04]

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[01:31:03]

mattwj2002:

that is one with a cablecard

[01:32:48]

iamlindoro:

It will work insofar as it will work as a Clear QAM tuner, and for any channel that is copy-free

[01:33:14]

iamlindoro:

for reference, the Silicondust guys had to upgrade to the top cable tier in their area to get ONE copy free channel

[01:33:14]

mattwj2002:

hmm

[01:33:56]

mattwj2002:

what do you mean by that last statement?

[01:34:34]

iamlindoro:

I mean to get a single channel to test the theory of whether you could get a copy-free to stream, They had to upgrade to the most expensive package offered

[01:34:57]

iamlindoro:

meaning they had a tuner, a cablecard sub, a $250 cable sub, and got one extra channel

[01:35:02]

iamlindoro:

in linux

[01:35:05]

mattwj2002:

oh my

[01:35:28]

mattwj2002:

I thought you would get all of the channels you subscripted too :(

[01:35:33]

iamlindoro:

Only in windows

[01:35:39]

mattwj2002:

that sucks :(

[01:36:42]

mattwj2002:

well I might get one just for the 3 tuners

[01:36:54]

mattwj2002:

I think it has 3

[01:36:57]

mattwj2002:

let me check again

[01:38:06]

kormoc:

so you're gonna pay extra to get a third tuner you can't use?

[01:38:21]

mattwj2002:

oh

[01:38:43]

mattwj2002:

it won't act as three clear qam tuners?

[01:38:44]

itscrimetime:

iamlindoro u must know comcast

[01:39:00]

kormoc:

afaik it's a hdhomerun + a cable card tuner

[01:39:27]

itscrimetime:

ahh

[01:39:29]

mattwj2002:

oh

[01:39:34]

mattwj2002:

I misunderstood

[01:39:48]

mattwj2002:

maybe I'll just get another hdhomerun then :)

[01:39:52]

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[01:39:53]

itscrimetime:

still can't get this firewire to work

[01:40:29]

sphery:

iamlindoro: The Hulu part of MNV isn't working. It just shows, "We're sorry, the Hulu player is not supported on 64 bit versions of Flash." Want me to open a ticket?

[01:40:41]

sphery:

:D

[01:41:00]

mattwj2002:

what I need is about 25 tuners and about 20 TB of storage

[01:41:30]

mattwj2002:

and few backends

[01:41:42]

mattwj2002:

record every channel for about a week! :D

[01:41:53]

sphery:

I have 4 tuners and have a hard time keeping space in my 10.5TB of storage

[01:42:01]

mattwj2002:

oh my

[01:42:39]

sphery:

I'm still just a "middle-of-the-road" storage guy for this channel, though

[01:42:39]

mattwj2002:

I just have basic cable

[01:43:02]

mattwj2002:

but with mythtv there is enough to watch

[01:43:25]

bcgrown:

sphery: and i thought my 400GB was a lot...

[01:43:49]

bcgrown:

mattwj2002: yeah i have 2 tuners and basic cable and i almost never watch live tv anymore

[01:44:04]

bcgrown:

unless it's hockey season :)

[01:44:13]

sphery:

400GB isn't bad for SDTV at low-quality (like 1GB/hr)

[01:44:28]

mattwj2002:

:)

[01:44:44]

sphery:

I could never do HDTV with 400GB, though (since I average about 6GB/hr)

[01:44:54]

bcgrown:

i record a mix of SD and HD, but i'm never really bothered by running out of space. auto-expire and recording priorities take care of that

[01:45:09]

bcgrown:

i also transcode everything to save space

[01:45:32]

bcgrown:

my hd recordings are around that bitrate too

[01:45:45]

sphery:

yeah, I tend to record a season of shows then watch them a season at a time

[01:45:53]

sphery:

currently watching FlashForward

[01:45:58]

mattwj2002:

I have 400 GB for mythtv right now

[01:46:00]

mattwj2002:

doing HD

[01:46:07]

mattwj2002:

I need more storage :(

[01:46:10]

sphery:

(which, it turns out is watching a "whole series" at a time since they cancelled it :)

[01:46:43]

sphery:

yeah, when a 2TB HDD is $100, it's hard not to justify adding space

[01:47:03]

sphery:

that's how I've grown mine to 10.5 TB... those HDD prices keep falling and tempting me

[01:47:37]

mattwj2002:

:D

[01:47:51]

wagnerrp:

heh, im up around there somewhere

[01:49:07]

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[01:49:30]

mattwj2002:

hehe

[01:49:34]

mattwj2002:

that is a lot of storage!

[01:49:35]

mattwj2002:

:D

[01:51:44]

wagnerrp:

no, not really

[01:51:54]

mattwj2002:

for an average computer it would be

[01:51:55]

mattwj2002:

:)

[01:52:03]

mattwj2002:

for a server no your right

[01:52:05]

wagnerrp:

clearly everyone around here has a warped sense of reality

[01:52:21]

sphery:

for MythTV, TB is the new GB

[01:52:38]

sphery:

I propose changign the name of the project to MythTB\

[01:52:42]

mattwj2002:

how many tuners does everyone have for basic cable?

[01:52:56]

wagnerrp:

analog cable? 2

[01:53:01]

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[01:53:03]

mattwj2002:

analog?

[01:53:13]

mattwj2002:

I suppose you get the most channels that way :)

[01:53:21]

mattwj2002:

I like clear qam

[01:53:22]

mattwj2002:

:D

[01:53:31]

sphery:

I have 4 OTA-only tuners

[01:53:34]

mattwj2002:

but you mis a lot of channels

[01:53:52]

bcgrown:

mattwj2002: some of us are lucky and firewire outputs that work :) i've got 1 analog tuner and 1 digital

[01:53:59]

mattwj2002:

nice

[01:54:07]

mattwj2002:

I have to clear qam tuners

[01:54:17]

mattwj2002:

I am thinking about adding two more

[01:54:28]

mattwj2002:

when I say two my mean one hdhomerun

[01:54:44]

mattwj2002:

it is dual tuner

[01:59:46]

waxhead:

sphery, what are you storing your hdd's in?

[02:00:13]

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[02:01:04]

sphery:

waxhead: I have 2 backends, one with 4 drives, the other with 3

[02:01:31]

waxhead:

ah..

[02:03:01]

waxhead:

sphery, raid?

[02:03:12]

sphery:

no, just separate disks

[02:03:24]

sphery:

no need for redundancy--it's just tv

[02:03:27]

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[02:03:44]

sphery:

and striping/concatenating does more harm than good with mythtv

[02:04:19]

sphery:

it's not like you need high-performance writes to achieve 6GB/hr

[02:04:23]

waxhead:

so just stick another disk in? Do you mount it a specific way, or does the config allow you to specify multiple locations?

[02:04:31]

waxhead:

sure...

[02:04:42]

sphery:

Storage Groups allow you to specify a list of directories to use

[02:04:55]

waxhead:

I'm thinking about a qnap nas, but only ofr media like music, picutres and movies..

[02:05:07]

itscrimetime:

i have a dct3416 dvr by comcast

[02:05:15]

waxhead:

sphery, oh of course... I haven't had to set things up for a while now.. forgot about that

[02:05:21]

wagnerrp:

heh, seems ive got 14.5TB of active storage

[02:05:32]

sphery:

waxhead: my latest manifesto on the use of Storage Groups: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/443158#443158

[02:05:34]

wagnerrp:

12.7 usable, 10.7 in internal storage

[02:06:03]

waxhead:

I'm not sure I have the space in the back/frontend for more disks...

[02:06:14]

waxhead:

the 1tb drive for recordings is full though

[02:06:23]

sphery:

yeah, a friend has 5 drives in his box and some boots don't work

[02:06:36]

waxhead:

the funny thing is I don't have enough time in the day to watch it all...

[02:06:48]

sphery:

I told him he needs to build one of these: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/02/spin . . . ard_dis.html

[02:09:01]

itscrimetime:

for firewire do i have to prime it?

[02:10:28]

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[02:12:18]

[R]:

does anyone get conufsed by that spam thats gone to mythtv-users? with the dying guy and the links and stuff?

[02:12:39]

wagnerrp:

[R]: were not the only people he spams

[02:12:55]

[R]:

i figured as much

[02:12:58]

[R]:

but it confuses me

[02:13:04]

wagnerrp:

ditto

[02:16:12]

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[02:16:37]

kormoc:

the guy needs a shrink, not medical docs

[02:16:47]

mattwj2002:

good night all

[02:16:51]

[R]:

lol

[02:16:56]

mattwj2002:

:P

[02:16:59]

[R]:

its entirely way too long to read

[02:17:06]

[R]:

is it a nigerian scam or something?

[02:17:08]

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[02:17:17]

wagnerrp:

who knows...

[02:17:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: Seems a bit over-engineered... using an arduino? ;-)

[02:17:32]

wagnerrp:

claims neighbors are poisoning him or something

[02:17:43]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: got a better design? I'm actually thinking of building one or something like it

[02:19:31]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: It's just that a 28-pin Arduino is a bit overkill... ;-) And it doesn't show the Power connections for the drives either. ;-)

[02:19:36]

kormoc:

Point (27) says it all

[02:20:03]

[R]:

kormoc: does he want someone to kill him?

[02:20:06]

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[02:20:15]

sphery:

well, now that he's sent it to "President of the United States of America Barrack Obama" I'm sure he'll get the help he needs

[02:20:19]

bcgrown:

J-e-f-f-A: Yeah, I cringe every time someone uses an Arduino for such a simple task. Sadly it happens all the time

[02:20:50]

kormoc:

[R], nope! "My neighbours have claimed that they will never stop or waver in their psychological warfare on me unless I commit suicide"

[02:20:53]

patdk-lap:

sphery, 5 drives and sometimes it won't boot? that sounds really odd, using a 150w psu?

[02:21:07]

kormoc:

[R], "They" want him to die but he doesn't want to!

[02:21:16]

bcgrown:

J-e-f-f-A: and he spent all that time making a nice perfboard then haywired the power connector

[02:21:17]

sphery:

no, 400W PSU--it always boots, but sometimes the drives don't init properly

[02:21:34]

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[02:21:39]

bcgrown:

J-e-f-f-A: but then again it's easier to criticize than to do, isn't it? :)

[02:22:11]

patdk-lap:

sphery, your only looking at 15watts per drive, on spinup

[02:22:21]

patdk-lap:

so that is like, 75watts

[02:22:31]

[R]:

kormoc: is he just a paranoid linux freak?

[02:22:38]

sphery:

yeah, and the 400W PSU has how big a 12V rail?

[02:22:48]

sphery:

(it's 12V for HDDs, right?)

[02:22:56]

sphery:

and 5V for HDD electronics

[02:23:00]

patdk-lap:

12v and 5v, mainly 12v for spinup

[02:23:18]

patdk-lap:

generally after spinup it switchs to 5v, depends on the drive though

[02:23:18]

wagnerrp:

something like that, active usage is about half an amp on both

[02:23:26]

wagnerrp:

spinup pulls maybe 2A on 12V

[02:23:29]

kormoc:

[R], seems that way, aye

[02:23:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

bcgrown: I've been prototyping an invention, started with a pic with 16 i/o (really only need 6 for my project), then cut it down to 12, then finally am trying to get it implemented on an 8-pin pic. ;-) Which would be optimal, since I only need 6 i-o's. ;-)

[02:23:56]

sphery:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008 says +12V@30A

[02:25:04]

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[02:25:07]

bcgrown:

J-e-f-f-A: yep, that's how i work too

[02:25:21]

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[02:25:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

bcgrown: My first prototype I put an LCD on it, so I could debug stuff easier. ;-)

[02:25:48]

** J-e-f-f-A can't type English tonight for some reason... doh! **

[02:26:04]

sphery:

patdk-lap: but it's actually 1 computer with Athlon X2 4800+ (89W, IIRC), 2GB RAM, 5 HDDs, 1 DVD-RW, 3 Avermedia A180s, 1 nvidia GF7200 and possibly a bit more

[02:26:43]

patdk-lap:

how many power plugs does the gf7200 have?

[02:26:44]

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[02:26:47]

bcgrown:

J-e-f-f-A: now that i've got that out of my system maybe i should go work on my own project. *#$%ing I2C is driving me batty

[02:26:55]

wagnerrp:

none?

[02:27:09]

sphery:

don't remember... it may not have any (just PCIe's 75W max)

[02:27:54]

patdk-lap:

so your up to about 300watts for just the motherboard +cpu+video

[02:30:39]

sphery:

it's all good once it's started--it's somewhere around 50% load on PSU most of the time, according to Kill-A-Watt

[02:31:35]

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[02:34:49]

patdk-lap:

you sure the motherboard doesn't support staggered spinup?

[02:35:01]

wagnerrp:

few consumer boards do

[02:35:07]

patdk-lap:

on my drives, I just jump the spin up in idle or whatever, and it just works

[02:35:13]

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[02:35:14]

bcgrown:

sphery: if your kill-a-watt tells you 200W then your PSU is at less than 50% load

[02:36:31]

sphery:

oh, so load numbers are psu output not input?

[02:36:39]

bcgrown:

yeah

[02:36:54]

bcgrown:

your psu's efficiency will change depending on the load

[02:37:04]

sphery:

interesting...

[02:37:44]

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[02:37:48]

patdk-lap:

the more load, the more efficient the psu

[02:37:51]

sphery:

yeah, I've been aiming for about 50% load at "steady state" (at whatever load the system generally runs), but it seems I've been missing :)

[02:38:12]

sphery:

the 50% based on the efficiency graphs at 80 PLUS

[02:38:25]

bcgrown:

patdk-lap: usually, yes

[02:39:24]

bcgrown:

sphery: power supply ratings are always for the amount of power they can supply, not the amount they consume

[02:39:37]

sphery:

http://80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_reports/SP549_ . . . W_Report.pdf , for example, for the PSU in that system

[02:40:11]

bcgrown:

sphery: but if you've got an 80+ psu, then your numbers won't be more than 20% off :)

[02:40:28]

sphery:

so it's much harder to measure the load as output... guess I could do the math based on input and efficiency, and get close enough

[02:40:44]

sphery:

yeah, I've been swithcing all my systems to 80 PLUS for that reason

[02:41:04]

bcgrown:

PC power supplies are pretty complicated to measure the load since there are so many different output rails

[02:41:24]

bcgrown:

plus there are a lot of transient, inductive, and capacitive loads

[02:41:42]

bcgrown:

measuring the input is going to be far simpler :)

[02:42:59]

waxhead:

hmm... I think I need to fix up my mounts on my system..

[02:43:34]

bcgrown:

sphery: Does the kill-a-watt tell you the power factor?

[02:43:44]

sphery:

it's amazing--I'm saving about $1.75/mo with the switch from cheap PSU to 80 PLUS (about 20W input, so on 24/7/52 systems, that's 14.4kWh/mo and at $0.12/kWh, that's $1.73)

[02:44:05]

sphery:

it has the number, but I don't understand it, so I haven't paid any attention to it

[02:45:08]

patdk-lap:

sphery, so at 1.73 per month, how many months till it pays for the psu price difference?

[02:45:28]

bcgrown:

for home users it's not really important, but if it didn't measure that i'd be skeptical of its other results

[02:46:06]

[R]:

patdk-lap: like that i love lucy episode... with the fridge that paid for itself and ricky told lucy to have the fridge call when its done paying for itself

[02:46:08]

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[02:46:21]

patdk-lap:

hehe :)

[02:46:24]

sphery:

patdk-lap: heh, I've never paid more than $34.99 for an 80+ PSU (one PSU), got a bunch for $29.99, and one for $19.99. But since they're replacing ones that have failed (or, at minimum have fans louder than most jet engines), it's well worth it :)

[02:46:40]

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[02:46:45]

patdk-lap:

those are some cheap psu's

[02:46:55]

sphery:

yeah, just have to buy them on sale

[02:47:11]

patdk-lap:

well, the 400w is smaller than I can put into my systems though too

[02:47:12]

sphery:

they're typically about $60, but if you get the right sale + rebate, you get them much cheaper

[02:47:24]

sphery:

and, yeah, 400W to 450W for all of mine

[02:47:51]

sphery:

I have a feeling most people who think they need > 400W don't

[02:47:56]

patdk-lap:

I'm need atleast 750w for my systems :(

[02:48:02]

bcgrown:

sphery: you're right...

[02:48:45]

sphery:

(of course, those using the Asus Ares video card in a CrossFire configuration not included :)

[02:49:21]

patdk-lap:

sphery, I'm building a new mythbackend to save power :)

[02:49:27]

sphery:

that video card has PCIe power + two 8-pin + one 6-pin power connector

[02:49:31]

patdk-lap:

I'm going load it up with 5 video cards in it

[02:49:50]

sphery:

5 video cards?

[02:50:07]

wagnerrp:

hopefully youre a HPC user

[02:50:23]

patdk-lap:

hpc?

[02:50:54]

sphery:

yeah, I burned up one of my computers, so rather than replace it, I replaced my mythfrontend, which was a power hog, used my mythtv dev box to replace the broken system (since it was a low-power system), and made the old frontend into my "doesn't run all the time" dev box

[02:51:02]

wagnerrp:

high performance computing

[02:51:06]

wagnerrp:

supercomputing

[02:51:10]

sphery:

I'm actually very glad to have the new low-power frontend

[02:51:16]

wagnerrp:

numerical simulation

[02:51:24]

patdk-lap:

wagnerrp, nope

[02:51:32]

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[02:51:35]

sphery:

so why 5 vid cards?

[02:51:38]

patdk-lap:

I'm planning on using it for my frontends all on one box

[02:51:42]

patdk-lap:

5 frontends basically

[02:51:48]

patdk-lap:

hdmi extenders to the rooms

[02:51:50]

wagnerrp:

then what could you possibly use 5 cards for?

[02:51:52]

sphery:

that will be an interesting experiment

[02:52:06]

patdk-lap:

I've been testing it with 2 cards now

[02:52:07]

sphery:

I hope you plan to do VDPAU with it--though that may stretch all driver support...

[02:52:15]

patdk-lap:

no vdpau

[02:52:24]

patdk-lap:

video playback with vdpau is horrible

[02:52:24]

sphery:

6-core system with SDTV, then?

[02:52:30]

patdk-lap:

yep

[02:52:34]

sphery:

ah, that might work

[02:52:43]

patdk-lap:

well it's unlikely that more than 2 or 3 will be used at a time

[02:52:51]

sphery:

that will help

[02:52:58]

sphery:

will still be a configuration challenge

[02:52:59]

patdk-lap:

but I figure an idle video card is cheaper than an idle computer

[02:53:07]

patdk-lap:

ya, configuring X will be the most fun

[02:53:08]

sphery:

true

[02:53:27]

wagnerrp:

you think that will actually save power beyond multiple frontends that power down when not in use?

[02:53:27]

bcgrown:

patdk-lap: you should definitely post a report of some sort if you manage to make that work

[02:53:30]

sphery:

but a quick-boot computer is pretty low-power when off :)

[02:53:54]

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[02:53:54]

wagnerrp:

standby only consumes a couple watts

[02:53:55]

patdk-lap:

wagnerrp, power down when not in use?

[02:54:02]

patdk-lap:

if I could get people to turn the tv's off

[02:54:15]

wagnerrp:

yes, if its a frontend, you can turn it off at will

[02:54:17]

patdk-lap:

mine is the only tv in the house that EVER turns off

[02:54:28]

sphery:

I need to get a kill-a-watt equivalent that measures < 1W usage (for testing my various device chargers (phones, bluetooth, etc) as well as things like draw from a PSU when a system is in WOL mode :)

[02:54:28]

wagnerrp:

they dont turn the TVs off?

[02:54:34]

patdk-lap:

nope

[02:54:42]

bcgrown:

patdk-lap: are they LCDs? you can turn them off from the command line

[02:54:50]

wagnerrp:

clearly a 200W TV is a bigger issue than a 40W computer

[02:54:53]

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[02:55:09]

bcgrown:

patdk-lap: mine turns itself off if it has no signal on the vga port, actually

[02:55:09]

patdk-lap:

wagnerrp, I don't have any tv's that use >150w

[02:55:16]

patdk-lap:

the 48" is like 140w or so

[02:55:40]

sphery:

but don't you want to aim for the big consumers first?

[02:55:55]

sphery:

i.e. measure the losses and then focus on the biggest problems :)

[02:56:02]

wagnerrp:

make people turn off the tvs

[02:56:05]

wagnerrp:

problem solved

[02:56:07]

patdk-lap:

sphery, ya, screw the tv's and mythbox's, go for the hvac system :)

[02:56:17]

wagnerrp:

if they dont, bitch slap them

[02:56:29]

patdk-lap:

wagnerrp, the tv's are such a small usage overall

[02:56:39]

sphery:

heh, I did that--and it turns out that my air conditioning was a small part of my power usage (and computers were the big part)

[02:56:43]

wagnerrp:

how often are they on?

[02:56:55]

sphery:

150W left on all the time is a /lot/ of power

[02:57:05]

wagnerrp:

/old/ computers are a big part

[02:57:11]

patdk-lap:

my computes + tv's, on 24/7, use $70 a month

[02:57:19]

patdk-lap:

hvac system, way over that

[02:57:24]

wagnerrp:

modern low power frontends can be as little as 30W without significant effort

[02:57:28]

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[02:57:38]

wagnerrp:

thats about $3/mo

[02:57:44]

sphery:

150W for 24hrs = 3.6kWh, so that's 108kWh/mo = $12.96 @ 0.12/kWh

[02:57:49]

wagnerrp:

and if its only online a couple hours a day, its a fraction of that

[02:58:02]

sphery:

agreed

[02:58:03]

patdk-lap:

yep, I have a small cluster of computers, they use $4 a month each, but those are normally off

[02:58:22]

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[02:58:27]

patdk-lap:

my backend system, stays on 24/7, it uses $15 a month currently

[02:58:42]

bcgrown:

damn you guys have expensive power

[02:58:54]

patdk-lap:

bcgrown, where do you live?

[02:58:55]

sphery:

bcgrown: $0.12/kWh is expensive?

[02:59:15]

wagnerrp:

0.12/kWh is about national average

[02:59:20]

patdk-lap:

my power is .045c/kwh, but if you include the FULL bill, transsmission charges, tax, ..., it's .12c

[02:59:26]

sphery:

some people get up to the $0.30/kWh range (in CA with "over the minimum" usage)

[02:59:31]

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[02:59:45]

sphery:

yeah, my $0.12 is assuming full charges

[02:59:46]

wagnerrp:

yeah, transmission costs are usually as much as the power itself

[03:00:00]

bcgrown:

sphery: ah, i haven't factored in the other charges. my basic rate is ~6 cents/kWh

[03:00:22]

sphery:

wagnerrp: and the bad part is, when the transmission went out on my pickup, the power company said they wouldn't refund any of my transmission charges

[03:00:48]

wagnerrp:

well clearly you werent consuming any power to charge transmission costs for

[03:01:08]

sphery:

what? that's not for the transmission in my vehicle?

[03:01:23]

wagnerrp:

oh, 'pickup truck'

[03:01:26]

** patdk-lap wonders how these electric car owners are going to feel **

[03:01:34]

sphery:

"Inflammable" means "flammable"? What a country!

[03:01:36]

patdk-lap:

when they get their monthly electric bill, with one huge cost

[03:01:47]

bcgrown:

sphery: just did the math and my total is 9.5c/kWh

[03:01:47]

patdk-lap:

instead of the normal gas fillup once or twice a week

[03:02:14]

patdk-lap:

bcgrown, you must live very close to the power station that makes your electricity

[03:02:26]

sphery:

bcgrown: Nice... When I was in the $0.08 range, I didn't pay any attention to power usage. It's since gone up to right at $0.12, so now I'm paying much closer attention.

[03:02:27]

bcgrown:

patdk-lap: we have a lot of hydro electricity here

[03:02:29]

patdk-lap:

I think mine is like 9c too, but I just round up to 12c

[03:02:43]

sphery:

bcgrown: is it Canada?

[03:02:57]

bcgrown:

sphery: i still pay attention, but there's only so much i can do, and it's not worth spending a lot to reduce consumption

[03:03:00]

bcgrown:

sphery: yeah, BC

[03:03:17]

sphery:

cool

[03:03:42]

bcgrown:

i average around 10kWh/day for a 1-bedroom apartment with electric everything- is that a lot?

[03:03:52]

sphery:

yeah, I started by doing the "passive" changes--i.e. replacing each failed PSU with an 80 PLUS for higher efficiency and no losses

[03:03:52]

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[03:03:56]

wagnerrp:

not at all

[03:04:14]

wagnerrp:

my roommate and i used to do ~1.6MWh in a summer month

[03:04:20]

bcgrown:

air conditioning?

[03:04:22]

patdk-lap:

my house, is around 33kwh per day

[03:04:22]

wagnerrp:

man that was an ugly bill

[03:04:24]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[03:04:38]

bcgrown:

yeah, no AC here and luckily it's not usually needed

[03:04:46]

bcgrown:

we barely even use the heat in the winter

[03:04:51]

wagnerrp:

top floor apartment, with poor insulation, and a crummy AC that kept leaking freon

[03:04:55]

patdk-lap:

electric heat?

[03:04:59]

bcgrown:

patdk-lap: yeah

[03:05:12]

sphery:

buying new computers systems with an eye toward power usage, etc. I haven't started any of the "active" changes (i.e. shutting off systems that I'd like to keep running, no longer running BOINC/SETI@home--which costs me $1.50/mo or so on each computer, etc.)

[03:05:13]

wagnerrp:

we got everyone else's heat, and our AC was running full blast just to make it bearable

[03:05:54]

sphery:

I have electric heat

[03:06:01]

patdk-lap:

I had fun at the datacenter 2 years ago

[03:06:01]

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[03:06:05]

wagnerrp:

no heat pump?

[03:06:10]

sphery:

but then again, I turn on the heat 2 days per year

[03:06:23]

sphery:

it's a heat pump, but has a "power strip"

[03:06:26]

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[03:06:40]

wagnerrp:

i thought those things, you just flipped them in reverse for heat

[03:06:42]

patdk-lap:

ripped out 114 blade servers (p3 800's) and replace them all with 2 new blades (8core p4's)

[03:07:01]

sphery:

yeah, but it's still electric

[03:07:20]

sphery:

the power strip/emergency heat thing will turn on when it's too cold outside for the heat pump to work

[03:07:36]

patdk-lap:

heatpumps are great when the outside temp is >25f or so, really good at 40f

[03:07:48]

sphery:

and generally, the only days where it gets cool enough inside to warrant turning on the heat are days when it's too cold outside for the heat pump to work well

[03:08:07]

wagnerrp:

yeah, one of the guys at work recently bought a new one

[03:08:11]

sphery:

yeah, I think the emergency thing gets used at <40F

[03:08:22]

wagnerrp:

the prices went up drastically if you wanted something that operated much below freezing

[03:09:16]

patdk-lap:

sphery, ya, <40f it starts to freeze, so it comes on sometimes, and it's used a lot at <30f

[03:09:28]

patdk-lap:

sphery I did hvac work for many years

[03:09:57]

wagnerrp:

below about 20–30, the single stage pumps dont have the capacity to heat most homes

[03:10:05]

wagnerrp:

so you need to kick in electric strips

[03:10:22]

wagnerrp:

which is expensive, but much less so than a multi-stage pump

[03:11:05]

sphery:

yeah, it seems my system wouldn't have been eligible for the great "energy efficiency" rebate this administration did (I bought my system 6months before they did that, so I wasn't eligible for that reason). I explicitly chose to get the heat pump design because it made for a more-efficient cooling system. However, the heating side of it is not high-enough efficiency to qualify. So, basically this rebate would have made me choose a less efficient ...

[03:11:12]

sphery:

... A/C unit (which is run for >9mos/yr) to get a more efficient heat unit (which is run--literally--about 2 days per year).

[03:11:32]

patdk-lap:

sphery, heh, my system is 27y old now :)

[03:11:37]

patdk-lap:

talk about inefficient

[03:11:47]

sphery:

heh, yeah, that would be rather inefficinet

[03:11:50]

patdk-lap:

it's leaving me this winter though

[03:12:00]

patdk-lap:

6 seer :)

[03:12:03]

wagnerrp:

why dont the groundsink systems work in florida?

[03:12:09]

wagnerrp:

ground water too hot?

[03:12:24]

sphery:

my original was a contractor grade system that was installed when the house was built, so it was designed for a 10-yr lifespan

[03:12:43]

sphery:

my current is designed for a much longer lifespan, but then you get into the situation you have :)

[03:15:15]

sphery:

wagnerrp: we talked about this last year... I don't remember details of what we found, though...

[03:15:36]

sphery:

looking at my logs, I linked to http://www.beacononlinenews.com/news/daily/957 and quoted, "In other parts of the country, naturally warm air from beneath the earth's surface is used to heat homes and water." :)

[03:16:19]

sphery:

seems I found info saying the ground water temp is about 72F

[03:16:54]

sphery:

(the temp here is)

[03:17:53]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1/2009-07-29:15:11:23

[03:18:09]

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[03:19:31]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://wellowner2.org/2009/index.php?option=c . . . mp;Itemid=51

[03:19:39]

sphery:

says geothermal heat pumps are common in FL

[03:20:05]

wagnerrp:

bah, geothermal, thats not geothermal

[03:20:21]

sphery:

heh, wellthermal?

[03:20:25]

wagnerrp:

its... i dont know what to call it, but i refuse to use that term

[03:21:09]

patdk-lap:

heh, well heatpumps work well :)

[03:21:15]

sphery:

wow, the USGS has an "Office of Groundwater" http://water.usgs.gov/ogw/

[03:21:17]

patdk-lap:

cause the water is always 55f

[03:21:30]

patdk-lap:

makes the a/c work great, and the heat work great

[03:21:43]

wagnerrp:

i cant consider it geothermal unless its running off a hotspring, geyser, or volcano

[03:21:48]

sphery:

patdk-lap: varies from 44F in the North Central US to 80F in FL and Southern TX

[03:21:58]

sphery:

wagnerrp: agreed

[03:22:05]

patdk-lap:

sphery, I only live in MD, so I don't care about those places :)

[03:22:17]

sphery:

heh, yeah, up there it's probably a nice cool 55F

[03:22:50]

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[03:23:31]

sphery:

heh, do a search at the usgs ogw, and you get, "Google Error: Request-URI Too Large"

[03:24:39]

sphery:

they have about a million site: qualifiers in there

[03:26:26]

patdk-lap:

heh

[03:30:20]

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[03:47:39]

sphery:

wagnerrp: NSA does even better than CSI with their "enhancing" of images... getting the symbol off the ring that the guy on the other side of the baseball stadium was wearing

[03:48:05]

sphery:

even if the source was 1920x1080, they weren't working with a lot of pixels

[03:49:13]

wagnerrp:

yeah well... they 'composited a bunch of angles'

[03:49:37]

sphery:

true

[03:49:44]

wagnerrp:

dont you know your optical interferometry?

[03:50:07]

sphery:

I should pull out the textbooks and have a little refresher, it seems

[03:50:53]

wagnerrp:

actually, thats what they do with earth-viewing satellites

[03:51:20]

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[03:51:28]

wagnerrp:

take a sweep of images as it flies overhead

[03:51:48]

wagnerrp:

and use the sequence to mathematically construct a virtual lens of much larger diameter

[03:53:01]

sphery:

yeah, but...

[03:53:57]

wagnerrp:

i dont doubt that you could work some magic if you have multiple shots

[03:54:08]

wagnerrp:

but youre not going to get anything like that no matter how hard you try

[03:54:23]

sphery:

yeah

[03:54:46]

sphery:

and in other news, I'm old: http://www.tv.com/network-tv-one-foot-in-the- . . . y/23655.html

[03:54:48]

wagnerrp:

and this crap on CSI where they do it with a single video feed, completely bogus

[03:55:02]

Beirdo:

it's TV

[03:55:55]

wagnerrp:

so, theyre not getting any new viewers? the ones they have are just getting older

[03:56:12]

sphery:

yeah

[03:56:27]

sphery:

'cause everyone's watching cable TV, instead

[03:56:30]

wagnerrp:

oh, theyre going to cable, not that theyre not watching tv

[03:56:44]

Beirdo:

I dunno, I still watch some network shows

[03:56:46]

wagnerrp:

cabletv is garbage

[03:56:59]

Beirdo:

all tv is garbage

[03:57:03]

wagnerrp:

you get a couple of the networks with their original series during the network off seasons

[03:57:04]

Beirdo:

but we like watching it

[03:57:10]

sphery:

or "Internet TV"--like YouTube?

[03:57:19]

wagnerrp:

but during the network seasons, its just a bunch of syndicated reruns

[03:58:21]

sphery:

yeah, when I last had cable Discovery channels seemed to do one new "Walking with <insert creature>" each year and re-run it until the next one

[03:58:35]

sphery:

nothing much else

[03:58:42]

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[03:59:23]

wagnerrp:

ooh, friday the 13th

[04:00:26]

clever:

didnt notice it until you said it

[04:02:25]

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[04:06:05]

sphery:

heh, just saw one of these on TV: http://www.reallifecomics.com/archive/100809.html

[04:11:43]

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[04:32:02]

bcgrown:

why can't mythvideo delete files even though it has permission?

[04:32:12]

wagnerrp:

pretty sure it can

[04:32:37]

bcgrown:

mine just says "Failed to delete file"

[04:32:52]

wagnerrp:

likely because it does not have permission

[04:33:05]

wagnerrp:

is this a remote mount?

[04:33:21]

bcgrown:

it's a storage group but it's local

[04:33:45]

bcgrown:

the directory should be owned by the user that starts the frontend, correct?

[04:33:59]

wagnerrp:

probably the frontend

[04:34:01]

wagnerrp:

erm... backend

[04:34:13]

bcgrown:

oh, maybe that's it

[04:35:53]

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[04:36:28]

bcgrown:

yeah that did it. doh

[04:44:47]

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[04:45:24]

Beirdo:

bcgrown.... no smokin yerself

[04:46:44]

wagnerrp:

is he johnny chimpo brand?

[04:47:23]

Beirdo:

could be pineapple express for all we know :)

[04:49:31]

bcgrown:

ok so i have a Videos dir into which i put... videos... and that dir is owned by user mythtv. but say a different user saves a video there. now that video is owned by this other user and can't be deleted by mythvideo. how do i make everyone happy?

[04:49:45]

wagnerrp:

group ownership

[04:50:13]

bcgrown:

add the second user to the mythtv group?

[04:50:18]

bcgrown:

or vice versa?

[04:51:07]

wagnerrp:

make mythtv the group owner of that folder

[04:51:15]

wagnerrp:

and set it to full read/write group access

[04:51:30]

wagnerrp:

any files made within that folder should also have read/write group access

[04:54:09]

bcgrown:

if i'm user bcgrown, i still need to be a member of the mythtv group, yes?

[04:54:27]

wagnerrp:

if the folder is owned by group mythtv, and you want to write to it, yes

[05:00:18]

bcgrown:

ok... but when I create a file there as bcgrown, it ends up being owned by bcgrown:bcgrown, and then mythtv can't delete it :(

[05:00:32]

bcgrown:

sorry i know this is pretty basic linux stuff, but somehow i missed learning it

[05:00:34]

wagnerrp:

it should be owned by bcgrown:mythtv

[05:02:33]

bcgrown:

i chowned the folder to bcgrown:mythtv, but new files there end up with bcgrown:bcgrown, not bcgrown:mythtv

[05:03:48]

** bcgrown needs to do some googling **

[05:11:37]

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[05:14:49]

Beirdo:

blargh

[05:15:08]

** Beirdo waits... yet again.. for his backend to finish recording **

[05:15:53]

bcgrown:

you own it, man. it doesn't own you.

[05:16:01]

bcgrown:

wagnerrp: setgid is the thing i was missing

[05:16:02]

Beirdo:

whatever :)

[05:16:08]

wagnerrp:

mmm...

[05:16:14]

** wagnerrp just found the case for the motorhome **

[05:16:22]

Beirdo:

motorhome?

[05:16:26]

Beirdo:

oO

[05:16:35]

wagnerrp:

?

[05:17:01]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:17:37]

Beirdo:

Covert Affairs is recording

[05:17:44]

wagnerrp:

the dvd changer i used to have in it barfed, and ive been meaning to build a mythtv system for it

[05:17:57]

Beirdo:

you have a motorhome?!

[05:18:00]

wagnerrp:

the problem is the A/V cabinets are very shallow

[05:18:07]

bcgrown:

going to access your backend via 3G? lol

[05:18:12]

wagnerrp:

parents

[05:18:16]

Beirdo:

you put a mobile satellite dish on the roof?

[05:18:29]

wagnerrp:

it has one, auto-tracking even

[05:18:32]

Beirdo:

ahh, OK, that does sound more like

[05:18:33]

wagnerrp:

but we dont have a subscription

[05:18:37]

Beirdo:

ooooh, I want

[05:19:08]

Beirdo:

I want a big diesel pusher

[05:19:22]

Beirdo:

but that won't happen for a few more decades, I'm sure

[05:19:42]

wagnerrp:

yeah, this just a big 8.7L gasoline

[05:19:45]

wagnerrp:

very loud up front

[05:19:59]

Beirdo:

still fun :)

[05:20:03]

wagnerrp:

diesel pushers start at like 350K

[05:20:09]

Beirdo:

for new, yeah

[05:20:25]

Beirdo:

you can get em used for around half that if you don't mind a bit old

[05:20:27]

wagnerrp:

anyway.... getting content to it is a problem

[05:20:36]

Beirdo:

or buy a bus and convert

[05:20:40]

wagnerrp:

so i wanted a full size 5.25" bay

[05:20:54]

wagnerrp:

which is a problem when your A/V cabinets cant take anything over 15" deep

[05:21:01]

Beirdo:

yeah

[05:21:12]

Beirdo:

and ventilation in the cabinet?

[05:22:09]

wagnerrp:

right now its glass, but i intend to replace that with some perforated sheet metal spraypainted matte black

[05:22:18]

Beirdo:

stupid frontend

[05:22:22]

Beirdo:

stop doing that

[05:22:34]

Beirdo:

video frame buffering failed too many times

[05:22:34]

wagnerrp:

the old equipment would overheat with the doors closed anyway

[05:23:19]

Beirdo:

oh, likely so

[05:23:30]

wagnerrp:

(the 5.25" bay needed for a hotswap 3.5" caddy)

[05:23:42]

wagnerrp:

anyway, i found a silverstone that fits the bill, only 12.8" deep

[05:23:45]

Beirdo:

I'm thinking of adding case fan(s) in my cabinet here to vent hot air

[05:23:59]

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[05:24:39]

bcgrown:

okay i am confused... if i do "touch foo" or "mkdir bar" in a dir, both the file and the dir get chowned bcgrown:mythtv like i want... but if the file is created by Deluge, it is owned by bcgrown:bcgrown

[05:25:02]

Beirdo:

chmod 2775 dir

[05:25:10]

wagnerrp:

aarrrrrrr

[05:25:36]

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[05:25:48]

bcgrown:

Beirdo: the dir is already 2770

[05:26:26]

Beirdo:

then it should work

[05:26:39]

bcgrown:

..but it doesn't

[05:27:13]

Beirdo:

sounds like a fun bug in Deluge... or soemthing

[05:27:24]

bcgrown:

oh actually i know why

[05:27:28]

** wagnerrp gets the eye patch and rum **

[05:27:35]

Beirdo:

that too

[05:27:36]

bcgrown:

wagnerrp: no pirates here

[05:27:40]

wagnerrp:

:)

[05:27:51]

Beirdo:

polly wanna cracker?

[05:27:52]

bcgrown:

wagnerrp: www.clearbits.net only

[05:28:08]

** wagnerrp gets the rum anyway **

[05:28:15]

bcgrown:

It's because deluge downloads to one dir, then copies to the 2nd

[05:28:20]

bcgrown:

so it's copying the permissions from the first one

[05:28:51]

** Beirdo puts termites on bcgrown's peg-leg **

[05:29:15]

Beirdo:

oooh, wipeout

[05:29:59]

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[05:30:21]

** bcgrown uses the termites to free orphans from a collapsed building **

[05:32:10]

** wagnerrp gets the robe and wizard hat **

[05:33:07]

** Beirdo hands wagnerrp a wand **

[05:33:09]

bcgrown:

oh no you don't

[05:33:15]

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[05:33:54]

bcgrown:

http://youtu.be/7I7Ue2wX6iQ

[05:34:23]

wagnerrp:

uh huh...

[05:35:47]

sphery:

bcgrown: perhaps: chmod g+s /path/to/directory

[05:36:09]

Beirdo:

sphery: it's already 2770

[05:36:14]

sphery:

oh, missed that

[05:36:17]

Beirdo:

so he said anyways :)

[05:37:15]

Beirdo:

as I ain't sshed in, I'll have to take his word for it

[05:37:32]

bcgrown:

yep, i figured it out

[05:37:44]

bcgrown:

the perms were being copied over from another dir

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[05:41:48]

bcgrown:

good night folks

[05:41:52]

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[06:21:41]

Beirdo:

WTh?

[06:21:51]

Beirdo:

commflag really borked on that recording

[06:21:56]

Beirdo:

143 commercials?!

[06:22:07]

Beirdo:

I think not.

[06:22:19]

Beirdo:

I'll force a re-run on that one I think

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v gbee

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justinh:

ahhh sleep. I love it

[07:45:21]

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[07:48:07]

mechcozmo:

hello, does anyony have experience with a NETGEAR xte1001 powerline network extender?

[07:51:10]

justinh:

what would that have to do with mythtv though?

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[08:23:40]

mechcozmo:

justinh: i'm trying to connect a frontend to it

[08:24:03]

mechcozmo:

justinh: and they are creating their own subnet and trying to hand out IPs to everything on my network

[08:24:21]

mechcozmo:

and tech support told me to RMA them

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[08:40:26]

** gbee moves to strike U from UPnP **

[08:40:58]

gbee:

it's an MS invention and they can't even stick to a standard

[08:41:13]

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[08:48:25]

justinh:

now I can't remember if anybody ever said it was a standard :)

[08:48:51]

justinh:

gbee: IMHO the 'Universal' can stand though – I mean it's universally annoying :D

[08:48:52]

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[08:49:18]

justinh:

or it could stand if UPnP stood for 'Universal Plug & Pray'

[08:53:08]

gbee:

the patches currently being submitted which change behaviour based on the client just undermine the whole concept IMHO

[09:03:11]

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[09:08:15]

simonckenyon:

what does the standard say on the subject

[09:09:52]

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[09:26:50]

mattwj2002:

hi guys

[09:26:54]

mattwj2002:

I am so happy

[09:27:04]

mattwj2002:

I think I finally go mythexport to work!

[09:27:05]

mattwj2002:

:D

[09:30:43]

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[09:59:32]

mattwj2002:

dang it mythtv!

[09:59:50]

mattwj2002:

or should I say mythexport

[10:00:09]

mattwj2002:

it transcoded family guy in the wrong language :(

[10:00:41]

justinh:

it might be more funny in Spanish

[10:01:11]

mattwj2002:

how would one fix that?

[10:01:24]

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[10:01:35]

justinh:

blimey. somebody from bbc.co.uk in #mythtv

[10:02:09]

justinh:

mattwj2002: dunno what mythexport uses to transcode but whatever it is, it's mistaking the secondary audio track for the primary

[10:02:12]

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[10:02:59]

mattwj2002:

is there anyway of having it do all of the tracks?

[10:03:22]

mattwj2002:

I am doing this for an ipod touch

[10:03:34]

mattwj2002:

so I don't know if there would be support for that though

[10:03:37]

hot_wheelz:

justinh remember yesterday you asked me what was in the search terms box when scan for missing icons

[10:04:59]

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[13:31:02]

davidroderick:

it is a big job to get the requirements for mythtv loaded.

[13:31:54]

wagnerrp:

oh? most people let their package manager do it

[13:32:06]

davidroderick:

on openbsd

[13:32:31]

wagnerrp:

yep, that can be trouble

[13:32:39]

davidroderick:

not on solaris.

[13:32:48]

davidroderick:

either.

[13:33:14]

davidroderick:

so it is a ubuntu thing? which os do you use?

[13:33:35]

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[13:33:51]

wagnerrp:

freebsd and gentoo

[13:36:00]

wagnerrp:

not sure openbsd is worth the effort

[13:36:18]

wagnerrp:

are there actually any tuner drivers on openbsd?

[13:36:51]

davidroderick:

the hardware support of obsd is the best in the world.

[13:37:18]

davidroderick:

what is a tuner driver?

[13:37:46]

wagnerrp:

a driver to make a capture card or tuner function

[13:39:46]

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[13:39:54]

wagnerrp:

openbsd doesnt have the graphical support to run a frontend, or the capture card support to run a backend

[13:40:13]

wagnerrp:

probably the only tuner you would be able to use is a HDHR

[13:43:21]

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[13:56:38]

sid3windr:

don't feed...

[13:56:39]

sid3windr:

:p

[13:57:30]

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[14:07:42]

justinh:

don't feed people who use BSD? sounds like some kind of plan

[14:07:50]

** justinh hides under the bridge again **

[14:09:31]

wagnerrp:

hey now, he just meant the people who think openbsd has great hardware support

[14:10:20]

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[14:10:30]

justinh:

no doubt whatever hardware it supports is very well maintained ;-)

[14:11:27]

justinh:

I dunno, since I installed my new backend machine I can't help but wonder if there's been a slight regression in the dvb drivers I use

[14:11:52]

justinh:

though since I disabled active EIT things seem to have been going nicely

[14:16:53]

peitolm:

wagnerrp: do you remember a conversation about dummy tuners? i seem to recall there's an "correct" way to run a tunerless backend, do you have any pointers?

[14:18:48]

wagnerrp:

there were some recent patches for doing that in trunk

[14:18:59]

wagnerrp:

but to be honest, ive never tried it and dont know the details

[14:19:06]

peitolm:

i'm guessing they're not in 0.23 then?

[14:19:16]

peitolm:

i'll try the method listed on the wiki then

[14:27:30]

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[14:38:24]

wagnerrp:

spam or ham? http://mythtv.org/wiki?title=MythTV_on_Mac_OS . . . ;oldid=47333

[14:38:42]

wagnerrp:

seems semi-legitimate

[14:38:46]

wagnerrp:

but has nothing to do with mythtv

[14:38:50]

wagnerrp:

and its a first time post

[14:40:02]

bjd:

if it's not related to myth, spam imo

[14:40:23]

peitolm:

is that a line just throwing in a link to some 'performance tool'?

[14:40:27]

peitolm:

spam i'd say

[14:40:39]

slacker- (slacker-!~giggel@130.95.136.177) has joined #mythtv-users

[14:40:48]

slacker-:

Hi

[14:41:22]

slacker-:

I'm getting this

[14:41:26]

slacker-:

2010-08–11 22:40:57.737 Current MythTV Schema Version (DBSchemaVer): 1254

[14:41:26]

slacker-:

2010-08–11 22:40:57.737 Not allowed to upgrade the database. Skipping backup.

[14:41:29]

slacker-:

2010-08–11 22:40:58.889 Couldn't upgrade database to new schema, exiting.

[14:41:44]

slacker-:

when starting mythfrontend on a client machine

[14:41:59]

slacker-:

i've tried stopping the backend and running mythtv-setup with no success

[14:42:02]

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[14:42:03]

wagnerrp:

your frontend is of a newer version than 0.23-fixes, and frontends are not allowed to upgrade the primary schema

[14:42:46]

wagnerrp:

there is no newer release than 0.23, and somehow you managed to get yourself on a development release

[14:43:22]

slacker-:

no, my frontend is older than the backend

[14:43:35]

wagnerrp:

apparently not

[14:43:49]

slacker-:

well.. dpkg says 0.22.0+fixes22594–0ubuntu1

[14:44:00]

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[14:44:16]

wagnerrp:

if your frontend wants to run something newer than 1254, then your frontend is running trunk from after the 0.23 branch

[14:44:21]

slacker-:

and the frontend says it has schema 1244 before it quites

[14:44:41]

wagnerrp:

hmm... shouldnt be trying to 'upgrade' to an older version

[14:44:48]

wagnerrp:

either way, the solution remains the same

[14:44:56]

wagnerrp:

you must run the same version of mythtv on all connected systems

[14:45:12]

slacker-:

hm, that's what I thought

[14:45:29]

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[14:45:39]

slacker-:

so I rand an apt-get update and apt-get install mythtv-frontned

[14:45:52]

slacker-:

and it said it was up to date

[14:46:04]

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[14:46:12]

slacker-:

I just noticed the version difference now when you said it

[14:46:14]

wagnerrp:

it may be up to date on your version of ubuntu

[14:46:18]

slacker-:

will check again

[14:46:43]

slacker-:

ah.. yes that might be it

[14:46:56]

slacker-:

I wonder if I can install a newer one without too much pain

[14:46:57]

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[14:47:41]

itscrimetime:

is there any other guide data service that work with mythtv besides Schedules direct?

[14:47:56]

wagnerrp:

in north america? no

[14:48:13]

itscrimetime:

i see they seem to be down more then up

[14:48:36]

wagnerrp:

any other tools that are available rely on scraping data from websites and services that you are not authorized to access in that manner

[14:49:04]

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[14:49:59]

slacker-:

mh.. maybenot

[14:50:17]

slacker-:

anyway, at least i've discovered a weird error message

[14:50:44]

slacker-:

should I put that in a bug tracker somewhere?

[14:50:58]

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[14:51:25]

wagnerrp:

nah, it got the message through as well as anything else would

[14:51:38]

slacker-:

alright

[14:51:41]

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[14:51:41]

wagnerrp:

you were running the wrong schema version, hence the wrong mythtv version

[14:51:47]

slacker-:

yes

[14:52:02]

slacker-:

thanks

[14:52:33]

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[16:00:37]

** wagnerrp is getting frustrated at explaining for the umpteenth time why linux cannot support cablecards **

[16:03:37]

bjd:

why can't they?

[16:03:42]

bjd:

sorry, couldn't resist

[16:05:36]

AndyCap:

bjd: just because. :P

[16:10:10]

gbee:

itscrimetime: I've heard nothing about SD experiencing much downtime on their data service

[16:10:45]

wagnerrp:

ive not noticed any problems recently

[16:12:44]

itscrimetime:

right on there website

[16:12:48]

itscrimetime:

Schedulesdirect.org is experiencing technical difficulties.

[16:12:49]

itscrimetime:

We're aware of the situation and working on it.

[16:12:49]

itscrimetime:

Data Download is uneffected.

[16:13:17]

wagnerrp:

so data download is unaffected

[16:13:25]

wagnerrp:

this will only cause problems if trying to set up a new lineup

[16:13:40]

wagnerrp:

SD doesnt actually provide guide downloads

[16:13:40]

itscrimetime:

yeah but u can't setup lineup

[16:13:47]

wagnerrp:

thats all run through TMS's servers

[16:15:27]

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[16:15:27]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[16:20:49]

gshelton:

hey folks – having a problem with TWC with my setup

[16:21:16]

gshelton:

not sure what's the best way to handle it

[16:21:38]

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[16:22:01]

gshelton:

they 'moved' a lot of channels around, necessitating a converter box

[16:23:30]

gshelton:

but my mythbackend in the garage, and just feeds the front ends

[16:24:54]

gshelton:

so will i lose the ability to control it from my other pcs?

[16:27:07]

wagnerrp:

control in what manner?

[16:30:51]

gshelton:

like the channels, etc.

[16:31:09]

wagnerrp:

the backend controls the channels, not the frontends

[16:31:20]

justinh:

oh dear http://computingplugs.com/index.php/Sheeva_Pl . . . ster_backend

[16:31:28]

gshelton:

but i think you need a remote with the converter box

[16:31:39]

gshelton:

it won't just go straight in anymore

[16:31:41]

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[16:31:42]

wagnerrp:

you need an IR blaster with the converter box

[16:31:55]

gshelton:

but that will be in the garage is the point

[16:32:35]

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[16:32:40]

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[16:32:49]

wagnerrp:

yes, so you have an IR blaster on the backend, and it controls the tuner box

[16:33:16]

gshelton:

i see – the blaster blasts outward to the box?

[16:33:25]

wagnerrp:

yes

[16:34:04]

kormoc is now known as kormoc_afk

[16:34:14]

gshelton:

okay – i guess that solves it – if it will work with pvr-150

[16:35:16]

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[16:40:56]

wagnerrp:

justinh: would you prefer the previous name of 'MythTV waker upper'?

[16:42:49]

justinh:

lol

[16:43:19]

wagnerrp:

"moved MythTV waker upper to Sheeva Plug as a MythTV master backend: because the old name is stupid"

[16:44:04]

wagnerrp:

'the first problem is the kirkwood CPU. it does not have hardware floating point'...

[16:44:09]

wagnerrp:

wait... what...?

[16:44:16]

wagnerrp:

they make computers without FPUs?

[16:44:23]

wagnerrp:

how would that even work?

[16:46:06]

bjd:

heh, that sheeva plug thing looks cool

[16:47:50]

gbee:

cool, until you realise just how hopeless it really is

[16:47:50]

i_is_cat:

ya it does

[16:48:35]

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[16:48:42]

i_is_cat:

im sure with the right usb tuner it would be an 'ok' second backend.. but i'm not done reading this page to see how it went..

[16:49:23]

wagnerrp:

it would be an 'ok' slave backend, with no framegrabbers, storage, or jobqueue, because the slaves dont do anything

[16:50:11]

wagnerrp:

it would be a 'horrid' master backend, and take several minutes for a scheduler run of any size, hours for a mythfilldatabase run, and im sure the seekdata populating into the database during recordings gives it a run for its money

[16:51:05]

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[16:51:09]

i_is_cat:

well said

[16:51:25]

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[16:52:18]

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[16:52:47]

i_is_cat:

that page references the WinTV-HVR-1950, does anyone have one of those? if so, does it work well?

[16:52:59]

wagnerrp:

im all for low power, but when youre talking all that pain and suffering for maybe $25/yr, why bother?

[16:53:08]

i_is_cat:

im out of space for pci cards in my system, and that looks ideal if it works well

[16:53:30]

wagnerrp:

no old PCs laying around you can set up as a slave?

[16:53:41]

wagnerrp:

the 1950 should work fine, but its /expensive/

[16:54:17]

justinh:

never mind the electrickery saving, how much does the sh**vaplug cost anyway? i.e. How long would it take to pay for itself? 5 years? 6 years?

[16:54:27]

wagnerrp:

i think $100

[16:54:45]

bjd:

i'd be tempted if they did powerline networking

[16:54:52]

bjd:

but they dont

[16:54:54]

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[16:55:19]

i_is_cat:

i wish i had more systems laying around.. :/ and $100 isnt that bad.. most places in my city want around that for any other tuner card

[16:55:26]

justinh:

so it'll take about 4 years to pay for itself, plus all the time taken to optimise it, messing around & waiting stupid amounts of time for it to do stuff.. there's no point then :)

[16:55:44]

justinh:

fine as some kind of HA server maybe though

[16:55:51]

wagnerrp:

justinh: oh, you mean for replacing an existing system

[16:57:10]

sphery:

wagnerrp: but, "The purpose of all this is to reduce power consumption while not sacrificing functionality."

[16:57:16]

wagnerrp:

i_is_cat: you can often dumpster dive for P3 grade systems

[16:57:20]

sphery:

did you see that "not"?

[16:57:51]

wagnerrp:

and i know of one or two stores around here that you can buy similar systems for $10-$20

[16:57:58]

wagnerrp:

plenty of PCI slots

[16:58:15]

wagnerrp:

PVR-150s can be had on ebay for ~$20–25

[16:58:27]

wagnerrp:

500s for double that

[16:58:37]

wagnerrp:

and digital tuners in the $40s retail

[16:58:45]

i_is_cat:

i used to work for a place that would pitch out the unwanted surplus government computers a few years back.. but as soon as my contract expired, the place lost funding. i should go check their dumpsters.. they might still be doing things along the same lines..

[16:59:32]

wagnerrp:

just set it up for WOL, diskless booting off and using the storage of the MBE

[16:59:54]

wagnerrp:

boots up when you need it to record, shuts down when its done

[16:59:54]

i_is_cat:

or... i suppose i could look for an old amd cpu for cheap and pray that its the cpu and not the motherboard thats broken on the one spare system i have laying around..

[17:00:00]

wagnerrp:

should only cost a couple dollars a year in power

[17:02:00]

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[17:03:24]

sphery:

wagnerrp: you do realize, though, that reducing power consumption from 25W to 12W is the same as reducing power consumption from 50W to 25W, which is the same as reducing power consumption from 100W to 50W or from 200W to 100W, right?

[17:03:30]

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[17:04:04]

wagnerrp:

in terms of percent improvement, sure

[17:05:13]

wagnerrp:

of course theres the whole thing of diminishing returns if you keep halving it

[17:05:22]

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[17:06:14]

sphery:

but, it's just like miles per gallon, right?

[17:06:29]

wagnerrp:

exactly like it

[17:06:39]

sphery:

:)

[17:09:38]

kormoc_afk is now known as kormoc

[17:12:39]

gbee:

I like power efficiency, not so much because of the cost savings or that it will 'save the planet' (*cough* bullshit) but because I like the elegance of designing something that uses what it needs and nothing more

[17:14:02]

gbee:

I'm not sure power efficiency has been a high priority for engineers in the past, even today I'd guess that plenty of firms don't give it a second thought

[17:16:35]

kormoc:

it's cost/benefit ratio, do I use more expensive parts and ramp up the upfront price or use cheaper parts and have it cost more to run?

[17:17:37]

wagnerrp:

or do you use cheap, low power garbage, and suffer the penalties

[17:21:49]

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[17:22:41]

sphery:

and, really, you can do a nice low-power computer system with common parts, anymore by just designing for its needs rather than over-engineering it

[17:23:08]

sphery:

so it's not necessarily more expensive parts--until you're paying for marketing (*cough* Atom)

[17:23:35]

itscrimetime:

anyone have roger's sa 4250hd box?

[17:23:46]

Beirdo:

oh, sphery, you and your hate for Atom :)

[17:23:46]

sphery:

ok, really you're paying for marketing + someone else doing the planning for you

[17:24:01]

sphery:

with common parts you have to plan appropriately

[17:24:36]

sphery:

Beirdo: yeah, first to admit I hold an extreme bias :)

[17:26:47]

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[17:28:23]

Beirdo:

heh :)

[17:29:26]

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[17:30:12]

reuben:

hello, when i click on the status page in the web ui, i get an error message: Warning at /usr/share/mythtv/mythweb/modules/status/handler.php, line 35: file_get_contents(http://xx.xx.xx.xx:6544): failed to open stream: Connection refused

[17:30:18]

reuben:

anybody familiar with that?

[17:30:39]

wagnerrp:

means your backend is not running

[17:30:42]

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[17:30:51]

reuben:

i tried restarting it using the service command

[17:30:53]

reuben:

will retry

[17:31:04]

wagnerrp:

mythweb just forwards and styles the status page provided by the backend itself

[17:31:26]

reuben:

there's an active process at least. i'll kill it and bring it back up

[17:31:40]

sphery:

or maybe you have a firewall blocking access to that address/port

[17:32:18]

reuben:

it was working, so i don't think the firewall is likely

[17:32:56]

wagnerrp:

im almost completely caught up with my transcoding, only about a dozen left to do

[17:34:55]

reuben:

what does: 2052 ? Zl 9:50 [mythbackend] <defunct> mean (output from ps ax | grep myth)

[17:35:03]

reuben:

that process is preventing me from restarting it

[17:35:10]

kormoc:

you have a ZOMBIE

[17:35:14]

kormoc:

shoot it in the brain

[17:35:18]

reuben:

doh

[17:35:29]

wagnerrp:

or cut off its head

[17:35:40]

kormoc:

reuben, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie_process

[17:35:55]

reuben:

thanks

[17:37:22]

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[17:48:03]

sphery:

yeah, once you remove the funct from a process, it's not too useful anymore

[17:49:22]

dherde:

Hi I have ripped a dvd in myth and it is not showing up under videos though I know theiso is in the videos folder. How do I play it?

[17:51:21]

sphery:

MENU|Scan for changes?

[17:53:02]

wagnerrp:

wow... the PS3 just launched in brazil for $1130

[17:55:27]

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[17:56:49]

gbee:

bargin

[17:57:37]

wagnerrp:

apparently the PS2 launched there for $461... last november

[18:00:09]

kormoc:

that's surprising, Brazil is actually fairly techy

[18:03:21]

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[18:04:00]

gbee:

anyone in Brazil who really wanted a PS3 could probably buy one without hassle, just that Sony probably didn't have any official presence

[18:04:30]

wagnerrp:

apparently those prices arent outrageous, theyre competitive with the xbox

[18:05:47]

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[18:06:21]

kormoc:

launching the ps2 now is bloody ridiculous

[18:06:22]

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[18:08:18]

gbee:

it's shameless exploitation

[18:08:56]

gbee:

they would have deliberately held back the PS3 release just to wring some extra cash out of buyers by releasing the PS2 first

[18:10:48]

AndyCap:

ooh, where did I see someone quoted saying that it's not old technology if you haven't seen it before

[18:12:48]

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[18:20:40]

dherde:

test

[18:21:24]

awalls:

It worked

[18:21:35]

dherde:

thanks..

[18:27:31]

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[18:30:47]

kormoc:

http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/08/pris . . . zombies.html

[18:31:05]

Beirdo:

heheh

[18:31:10]

Beirdo:

evil game :)

[18:31:18]

kormoc:

addicting game

[18:31:27]

Beirdo:

same thing, really :)

[18:31:57]

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[18:33:36]

high-rez:

wow seattle has a tech new site?

[18:33:58]

AndyCap:

Hmm. now you made want to play jailbreak

[18:34:28]

kormoc:

high-rez, one of a thousand?

[18:35:10]

high-rez:

That was the more shocking part to me. I always thought the only tech news sites here were like the microsoft blgos. ;)

[18:35:15]

high-rez:

s/blgos/blogs

[18:35:40]

kormoc:

We're pretty FLOSS friendly here, no shortage of FLOSS jobs

[18:36:53]

AndyCap:

Ah, Max Toy from Commodore was it that said. "It's not old technology to the first time user!"

[18:37:10]

high-rez:

kormoc: Yeah, I know. :) I work on *nix platforms in redmond all day long.

[18:37:17]

** kormoc laughs **

[18:37:22]

kormoc:

I always forgot who's all in the area

[18:38:35]

kormoc:

high-rez, you should swing by http://www.meetup.com/seattlelinux/ sometime :)

[18:39:43]

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[18:40:49]

high-rez:

Looks interesting. You go to that?

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[18:56:38]

kormoc:

high-rez, aye, not every month but semi-often

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[19:39:09]

stevieman:

Can someone give me a hand getting auto transcode working. I've made sure to set a recording to flag commercials and auto transcode. I've selected the transcode option I want and I've made sure that the allow transcode option is set in the backend setup. The flag commercial job runs but the transcode does not. I have to manually start the transcode for it to work. I would love to get this working all on it's own

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[19:40:17]

wagnerrp:

autotranscode will not use a commercial cut list, if thats what you were intending

[19:41:36]

stevieman:

wagnerrp: No, I would just like to transcode the shows to save space on the Hard Drive and for those HD channels to downgrade the video so I can watch a show without studdering

[19:41:55]

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[19:42:22]

i_is_cat:

dang.. that WinTV-HVR-1950 is on ncix for $172 :S thats pretty pricey

[19:42:37]

wagnerrp:

thats what i said

[19:42:54]

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[19:43:37]

i_is_cat:

lol ya but you said around $100.. $100 isnt too bad, even $119 wouldnt be so terrible, but $172 is way more than i want to spend on it :(

[19:44:46]

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[19:45:44]

wagnerrp:

no, i said the plugcomputer thing was around $100

[19:45:57]

wagnerrp:

but anyway, google is showing plenty of units for $130-$140

[19:47:13]

i_is_cat:

oh ok my bad

[19:47:26]

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[19:47:35]

i_is_cat:

is that USD?

[19:47:39]

wagnerrp:

yes

[19:47:41]

i_is_cat:

i'm canadian

[19:48:20]

i_is_cat:

as much as i dont like the idea of consolidating the currency in north america.. its stuff like this that makes me wish they would

[19:49:26]

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[19:49:59]

i_is_cat:

and thats actually pretty cheap for the plug computer.. too bad it seems to be a super slow system. guess it would work great for some purposes though.

[19:50:32]

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[19:51:48]

kormoc:

i_is_cat, that won't change that you guys get screwed on hardware

[19:51:59]

kormoc:

(Currency consolidation that is)

[19:52:24]

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[19:53:11]

stevieman:

hardware, books, software lots of things we get screwed on

[19:53:14]

i_is_cat:

i guess it really depends on how its set up.. but ya chances are it would end up like the euro or something so ya, i'd probably still end up paying more

[19:53:38]

plotino:

hi everybody

[19:53:45]

i_is_cat:

hi dr.nick!

[19:53:52]

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[19:54:05]

wagnerrp:

didnt he say 'hello', not 'hi'?

[19:54:24]

stevieman:

i_is_cat: the dollar is almost at par right now

[19:54:26]

i_is_cat:

mmm i'm pretty sure its hi.. but youtube should be able to solve that one

[19:54:37]

i_is_cat:

stevieman, i know, so wtf is with the prices on stuff

[19:54:50]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: ping

[19:55:32]

stevieman:

i_is_cat: likely the same excuse they used for books, fewer consumers which means higher prices to make money

[19:56:00]

i_is_cat:

the book prices are a freaking joke here

[19:56:10]

i_is_cat:

especially when they have canadian and american prices listed side by side

[19:56:35]

i_is_cat:

last novel i picked up was nearly $20

[19:56:58]

wagnerrp:

no used book stores with the $2 bargin bin?

[19:56:58]

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[19:57:21]

stevieman:

I can't remember the last time I bought a new book, way to expensive

[19:58:15]

i_is_cat:

in my city we have a chain of used book stores and then some smaller one-man type operations. the chain is expensive, might as well buy new. smaller ones are few and far between and usually dont have a very good selection because they're cherry-picked by old ladies on their lunch hour

[19:59:09]

stevieman:

i_is_cat: make friends with the owner of the small stores, they'll save books for you if you ask :)

[20:00:28]

i_is_cat:

good idea. maybe i'll do that when i get my car back up and running. as it is im like on the edge of town with almost nothing worthwhile around..

[20:02:29]

davidroderick:

I installed freebsd to use myth. should i choose the LIRC support installer option? I don't really like mysql

[20:02:55]

wagnerrp:

what does mysql have to do with lirc?

[20:03:34]

sid3windr:

heh

[20:03:39]

sid3windr:

hours later he's still trolling? :P

[20:04:15]

devinheitmueller:

Mysql sux! Can't you make it work with a real database like Oracle!?

[20:04:19]

plotino:

maybe stupid question but how to increase volume on mythtv?

[20:04:32]

devinheitmueller:

... or Microsoft Access?

[20:04:32]

sid3windr:

devinheitmueller: oracle? pffsh, informix!

[20:04:34]

plotino:

F10 or F11 dont work

[20:04:40]

i_is_cat:

devinheitmueller, you can use another databasing program, feel free to figure it out for yourself

[20:04:43]

sid3windr:

that's the default keys though plotino

[20:04:45]

plotino:

volume regulation is always at 0%

[20:04:58]

plotino:

i dont get to increase the volume

[20:05:11]

plotino:

i suspect to have probelm with pulseaudio

[20:05:20]

plotino:

but im not sure

[20:05:27]

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[20:05:39]

** devinheitmueller begins porting MythTV to run on dBase III. **

[20:05:42]

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[20:06:14]

sid3windr:

oh, pulseaudio.

[20:06:15]

sid3windr:

:p

[20:06:20]

wagnerrp:

is dbase still around?

[20:06:35]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: I doubt it.

[20:06:40]

Beirdo:

devinheitmueller: gonna run MythTV on CP/M? :)

[20:06:44]

plotino:

sid3windr, you recommend to remove it

[20:06:48]

plotino:

?

[20:06:52]

devinheitmueller:

Hey, no bashing CP/M!

[20:07:00]

Beirdo:

who said I was?

[20:07:01]

wagnerrp:

plotino: yes, burn it, burn it all

[20:07:11]

Beirdo:

that'd be something I'd love to see just for fun

[20:07:24]

Beirdo:

how many years to compile Qt on a Z80?

[20:07:27]

sid3windr:

plotino: I don't think it works too well with myth

[20:07:34]

wagnerrp:

42

[20:07:39]

plotino:

ok

[20:07:43]

wagnerrp:

s/too well//

[20:08:02]

wagnerrp:

myth will forcefully disable it if it detects pulseaudio running

[20:08:12]

devinheitmueller:

I did an April fools gag one year where I put on the company blog that our mainframe database management product had been ported to the TRS-80.

[20:08:24]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:08:27]

Beirdo:

fun.

[20:09:06]

wagnerrp:

what percentage of the company had actually heard the name 'Tandy' before?

[20:09:23]

devinheitmueller:

well, among the engineers about 80%.

[20:09:57]

devinheitmueller:

I loaned one of the younger engineers "Wargames" on DVD, and when he came into the office the next day he asked me if modems really used to make that sound.

[20:09:59]

wagnerrp:

to be fair, i only know the name because some old games used to have it as an option for graphics

[20:10:04]

Beirdo:

PET 4032 FTW.

[20:10:17]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: you young pup

[20:10:33]

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[20:10:35]

wagnerrp:

what kind of 'engineer' has never heard a modem sqeel?

[20:10:52]

devinheitmueller:

The kind that got into engineering after modems muted during dial.

[20:10:53]

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[20:11:01]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:11:05]

wagnerrp:

surely any graduated engineer was born in the 80s

[20:11:05]

Beirdo:

that's an option

[20:11:05]

Wicked:

pretty soon that will be common

[20:11:25]

Beirdo:

I always made mine mute on connect

[20:11:40]

Wicked:

my age bracket is kinda the last who will remember that

[20:11:56]

Beirdo:

I remember outtyping my modem

[20:12:02]

Beirdo:

300 baud was so fun

[20:12:18]

Wicked:

i remember when my dad brought home a 28.8 modem.

[20:12:27]

wagnerrp:

i remember my last modem before we got DSL had a mute option, but the connection would never go through if you used it

[20:12:39]

Wicked:

then the 56k

[20:12:44]

Wicked:

lighting fast!

[20:13:43]

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[20:14:29]

wagnerrp:

i think we got DSL in 2000?

[20:14:33]

stevieman:

why anyone needed 56K was beyond me ;)

[20:14:54]

Wicked:

sadly im still on dsl :|

[20:15:11]

wagnerrp:

we went to disney world some time around 05, and i brought my laptop because they had a 'web cafe'

[20:15:44]

wagnerrp:

apparently at that time, their concept of that was a chair in the lobby next to a phone jack

[20:15:51]

Wicked:

lol

[20:15:52]

stevieman:

any ideas on why auto transcode isn't so auto?

[20:16:14]

wagnerrp:

stevieman: probably because no one uses it, and it broke without notice

[20:16:57]

stevieman:

wagnerrp: ah of course, story of my life :)

[20:18:11]

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[20:18:16]

stevieman:

wagnerrp: any hope of it being fixed or should I just deal with it? :)

[20:19:12]

wagnerrp:

file a ticket

[20:19:19]

wagnerrp:

it might get taken care of

[20:19:33]

wagnerrp:

it might get ignored until such point that i end up rewriting that whole chunk of code

[20:19:59]

Captain_Murdoch:

s/rewriting/ripping out/

[20:20:11]

Beirdo:

refactor to 0 lines

[20:20:12]

wagnerrp:

or that

[20:20:35]

Captain_Murdoch:

that's why I've left it alone for so long, I'd just as soon re-encode using handbrake or something else for my needs.

[20:20:54]

wagnerrp:

well that still uses the jobqueue

[20:21:02]

plotino:

ok i have removed pulseaudio

[20:21:02]

wagnerrp:

doesnt handbrake have a command line version?

[20:21:05]

Captain_Murdoch:

I rarely cut and when I do it's using a mencoder script which I use to strip commercials out of my daughter's videos and encode them to h264

[20:21:09]

plotino:

but still no audio :(

[20:21:14]

Beirdo:

I would like to see good transcoding done from within mythtv, so nuvexport doesn't need to exist anymore :)

[20:21:21]

Captain_Murdoch:

wagnerrp, yeah. I use HandBrakeCLI exclusively

[20:21:22]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch: If anything, and I mean *anything* else would do lossless cut, I would be all for it... would be sad to lose lossless, though

[20:21:47]

Beirdo:

speaking of that in general terms... how's it going putting metadata into the db for recordings?

[20:21:53]

Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, and unfortunately I didn't write a bit of that non-nuv lossless code so I've rarely delved into it.

[20:22:01]

Beirdo:

i.e. resolutions, bitrates, audio sample rate, etc?

[20:22:04]

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[20:22:25]

Captain_Murdoch:

Beirdo, me?? I think sphery was going to look at the schema changes for that but it wasn't going to be in time for 0.24.

[20:22:31]

Beirdo:

OK

[20:22:34]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: that projectx script doesnt actually do lossless?

[20:22:36]

Captain_Murdoch:

once the schema was there, we could start adding support in places.

[20:22:37]

Beirdo:

wasn't sure where that lay :)

[20:23:18]

Beirdo:

I added framerate detection into recordedmarkup as part of my mondo patchset I'm working on

[20:23:29]

Beirdo:

it's in along with the resolution

[20:23:37]

Captain_Murdoch:

beirdo, RE: good transcoding within MythTV, I just don't want to spend umteen manhours re-implementing HandBrake, mencoder, ffmpeg, transcode, etc..

[20:23:55]

Beirdo:

yeah, I agree, but we already have ffmpeg libs all in there

[20:23:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

not as much reason to do that as there is to have our own integrated player.

[20:24:01]

Beirdo:

we could just use em

[20:24:02]

Captain_Murdoch:

libs are the easy part.

[20:24:21]

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[20:24:28]

Beirdo:

then the only part of ffmpeg we reinvent is the CLI layer

[20:24:32]

Beirdo:

which... sucks

[20:24:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

I already have a patch to use the libs to allow mpeg2, h264 encoding in mpeg-ps, -ts, flv, etc. containers.

[20:24:53]

Beirdo:

grrr

[20:25:06]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch: don't forget MKV with chapter markers at each cutpoint ;)

[20:25:10]

Beirdo:

VP of my department decided to play 80s music on speakers...

[20:25:14]

Captain_Murdoch:

it's not up to date, but it did work. it is just a major change and getting it right for everything is more than I have time for lately (ie, the last coupel years and why I dropped it). other things/features are more important to me.

[20:25:17]

iamlindoro:

because that would be extra-awesome

[20:25:28]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: good 80s music? or pop garbage?

[20:25:43]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: yeah, we need to get all that in the queue of things that should get worked on :)(

[20:25:48]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: bit of both

[20:26:04]

Beirdo:

but I can't escape it. my cubicle's right outside his door

[20:26:21]

__benny__:

high-rez: are you there? Still struggling around with some DVB-S LiveTV issues ..

[20:27:00]

high-rez:

I'm still here.

[20:27:04]

wagnerrp:

climb up to the ceiling, tap the intercom feed, and override the signal

[20:28:32]

plotino:

in the log .......... Opening audio device 'default'. ch 2(2) sr 48000 (reenc 0)

[20:28:37]

plotino:

it seems ok

[20:28:45]

plotino:

nut no audio for the TV pplayback

[20:28:57]

plotino:

help me!!! '-(

[20:29:50]

bjd:

what do we think of Intel's G41?

[20:30:12]

Beirdo:

Pfft

[20:30:16]

wagnerrp:

acceptable for Xv, marginal for opengl

[20:30:27]

Beirdo:

mind you I think that about a lot of things these days

[20:30:44]

wagnerrp:

better to go nvidia, or at least a 'more powerful' intel chip

[20:31:15]

wagnerrp:

someone in their marketing department needs to be stoned for calling it 'extreme'

[20:31:47]

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[20:31:57]

bjd:

ok

[20:34:06]

Beirdo:

I think they WERE stoned when they called it that

[20:34:39]

CyberKnet:

Really? Johnson isn't *that* bad of a name...

[20:34:44]

CyberKnet:

;)

[20:35:23]

Beirdo:

OK, enough of Depeche Mode. I *can* get enough, thanks.

[20:35:27]

wagnerrp:

well theyre still around, jumbling the meaning of i3/5/7 to the point of worthlessness

[20:36:22]

AndyCap:

Beirdo: enjoy the silence.

[20:37:05]

Beirdo:

if it weren't for the fact I have to call a carrier any moment, I'd just drown it all out with Metallica, which is more what my brain wants right now

[20:38:22]

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[20:38:41]

** iamlindoro wishes for the power to ban annoying people from the users list **

[20:39:10]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: if you take the annoying people out ... don't you get left with the dev list?

[20:39:17]

** CyberKnet looks around **

[20:39:28]

iamlindoro:

Sounds delightful to me! :)

[20:39:44]

** CyberKnet looks again carefully **

[20:39:45]

CyberKnet:

although personally .... I think some people on the dev list would be gone too.

[20:39:54]

CyberKnet:

best chance is mythtv-commits

[20:40:13]

wagnerrp:

you cant post to mythtv-commits

[20:40:22]

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[20:40:35]

CyberKnet:

So I guess then someone like wagnerrp would go and rain on your parade.

[20:40:36]

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[20:40:39]

CyberKnet:

*shrug*

[20:40:41]

CyberKnet:

;)

[20:40:50]

CyberKnet:

"reality"...

[20:40:52]

CyberKnet:

whatever.

[20:41:12]

CyberKnet:

actually, I misread your message.

[20:41:16]

CyberKnet:

What you said was perfection.

[20:41:18]

CyberKnet:

that's why I said it!

[20:41:29]

wagnerrp:

does chutt still hold sole authority over the mailing lists?

[20:41:37]

iamlindoro:

yes, as far as I know

[20:41:53]

iamlindoro:

though xris might have recently gotten the info

[20:41:55]

CyberKnet:

fearless leader.

[20:42:00]

Beirdo:

I'm sure that others can fix things if necessary

[20:42:16]

wagnerrp:

fearless leader, busy with life and children

[20:42:16]

iamlindoro:

CyberKnet: not any more

[20:42:23]

CyberKnet:

Did you ever feel like a gnat that somebody just can't be bothered to slap?

[20:42:25]

iamlindoro:

We have a committee now

[20:42:39]

CyberKnet:

shows how long I've been out of the loop (again)

[20:44:03]

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[20:44:32]

CyberKnet:

Where can I read about this committee? on the wiki?

[20:45:18]

wagnerrp:

mailing list, if anywhere

[20:45:28]

iamlindoro:

in fact, yes

[20:45:29]

iamlindoro:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Maintainers

[20:45:54]

CyberKnet:

wow. Not even a lmgtfy link. thanks lindoro :)

[20:46:05]

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[20:46:07]

iamlindoro:

np

[20:46:11]

davidroderick:

using freebsd ports compilation stops at x11 stage, something like qt

[20:46:36]

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[20:46:55]

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[20:48:36]

EnderTheThird:

I'm trying to compile mythplugins (trunk, 25614), but I keep getting errors about undefined references to `gCoreContext'. I tried disabling MythArchive but then it runs into similar errors in MythVideo. Been googling for notes on dependencies with commits and I'm not finding anything. Any help?

[20:49:04]

davidroderick:

do I want C++ qt or qt-gui?

[20:49:04]

wagnerrp:

EnderTheThird: have you compiled and installed a matching version of the mythtv core?

[20:49:22]

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[20:49:32]

EnderTheThird:

mythtv core compiled and installed no problems. Fresh install.

[20:50:04]

wagnerrp:

and youre not trying to compile the plugins from a previous working directory?

[20:50:15]

EnderTheThird:

Nope, brand new svn checkout.

[20:50:16]

wagnerrp:

this is a fresh checkout?

[20:50:20]

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[20:51:56]

iamlindoro:

if it's failing on gcorecontext, you didn't install mythtv

[20:52:22]

wagnerrp:

you know, i really dont like mediawiki lists

[20:52:28]

iamlindoro:

you might have compiled it, but didn't install it

[20:52:54]

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[20:53:04]

wagnerrp:

they just look so messy

[20:53:28]

EnderTheThird:

I'll try a new checkout and reinstall, but mythtv is installed and running. I typically use checkinstall so I can compile and install on both of my machines; that wouldn't give it trouble would it? (I checked, and the .deb DID install)

[20:54:09]

davidroderick:

when I ran the configure script of mythtv tarball it said I had an unmatched if statement and could not parse

[20:55:46]

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[20:57:55]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch / Beirdo: Yeah, I didn't get the initial schema changes for recordedfile in place early enough in the dev cycle for 0.24, for I'm delaying them until after 0.24 release. I should update the wiki page for it, too (as we have another change that breaks audio and video stream information into separate tables).

[20:57:57]

EnderTheThird:

doing a fresh checkout and install, will see how it goes

[20:59:13]

Beirdo:

OK

[20:59:52]

sphery:

heh, seems my fingers typed "for" instead of "so"... stupid finger brains

[20:59:57]

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[21:03:33]

bjd:

another quick question :p On my TV i've got an audio in phono jacks – can i just connect my spdif jack to that?

[21:03:59]

iamlindoro:

if you like machine guns

[21:04:12]

Beirdo:

doubtful. read the manual for your TV

[21:04:12]

bjd:

Heh

[21:04:17]

iamlindoro:

since that's what it will sound like if you hook up SPDIF to analog inputs

[21:04:48]

bjd:

i'll just take the speaker out on the motherboard then

[21:04:49]

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[21:04:55]

wagnerrp:

good thinking

[21:05:14]

wagnerrp:

erm

[21:05:16]

wagnerrp:

phono?

[21:05:29]

wagnerrp:

as in phonograph? you dont want to use that port

[21:05:47]

wagnerrp:

its not designed for the same line levels as normal inputs

[21:05:48]

iamlindoro:

presume he means RCA

[21:05:55]

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[21:05:56]

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[21:05:58]

bjd:

yeah, think i got the term wrong

[21:06:09]

bjd:

the red/white bundled with component

[21:06:16]

wagnerrp:

yeah, RCA

[21:06:25]

bjd:

k, ta

[21:06:36]

wagnerrp:

well, l/r using RCA plugs

[21:07:21]

wagnerrp:

typically 'phono' is going to be an uncolored RCA plug that takes the un-amped signal straight off the phonograph pickup

[21:07:37]

wagnerrp:

normal analog audio would still sound like machine guns through a phono port

[21:08:09]

bjd:

but analog to rca should be ok tho?

[21:08:18]

wagnerrp:

ro the red/white plugs, les

[21:08:27]

wagnerrp:

to, yes...

[21:08:34]

bjd:

:)

[21:09:44]

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[21:10:10]

wagnerrp:

'this page has been locked so that only registered users can edit it'

[21:10:23]

wagnerrp:

isnt the whole wiki locked so that only registered users can edit it?

[21:10:37]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: which page?

[21:10:54]

wagnerrp:

maintainers page

[21:11:02]

wagnerrp:

was going to see how it looks in table form

[21:11:07]

iamlindoro:

It's probably protected for sysops

[21:11:24]

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[21:11:29]

wagnerrp:

no, it was locked june 18, and i added myself to it the 19th

[21:11:51]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Try now

[21:12:01]

wagnerrp:

im not saying i cant edit it

[21:12:07]

wagnerrp:

that was just a warning at the top of the edit page

[21:12:24]

iamlindoro:

Oh-- the protect is for "new and unregistered"

[21:12:32]

iamlindoro:

so unregistered ight be by default, but maybe not "new"

[21:12:47]

wagnerrp:

so no one less than a few days old?

[21:12:54]

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[21:12:54]

iamlindoro:

I am not sure, but sounds right to me

[21:13:44]

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[21:16:49]

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EnderTheThird:

Alright, I reinstalled mythtv core, but I'm still getting gCoreContext errors

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EnderTheThird:

http://pastebin.com/8ueKBveA

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iamlindoro:

The one and only thing that error means is that the mythtv core headers are not installed

[21:49:57]

iamlindoro:

meaning you have not done make install, or are making to entirely seperate prefixes, or have a horribly broken build environment

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EnderTheThird:

Did make install and default prefixes during ./configure. Guessing it's the build environment then

[21:51:45]

EnderTheThird:

Thanks for the help

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[22:20:29]

russell5:

has anyone had a prblem with ac3 and using the internal player with the volume being to low?

[22:22:30]

sphery:

many have said that the decoder in MythTV uses the wrong volume

[22:23:23]

sphery:

russell5: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6569

[22:25:05]

russell5:

thanks ill try it.

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[22:51:21]

hopper75:

Which movie/tv meta data method should I use? Saw the first ones in the list – is there a best way to get tmdb and ttvdb?

[22:55:27]

wagnerrp:

the defaults are the only ones available, there are no other packaged grabbers

[22:55:57]

iamlindoro:

well, in trunk

[22:56:13]

iamlindoro:

in .23 there's allocine, etc.

[22:56:41]

wagnerrp:

i didnt think those had ever been converted to the auto-detection

[22:57:21]

iamlindoro:

yes, I converted all the legacy scripts

[22:57:25]

iamlindoro:

pre the XML conversion

[22:57:37]

iamlindoro:

but wasn't interested in doing such a drastic change after

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[23:03:51]

blizzard_:

hey folks

[23:03:56]

blizzard_:

a simple question

[23:04:01]

blizzard_:

I've got my working config atm

[23:04:09]

blizzard_:

I've made new channels.conf files

[23:04:20]

blizzard_:

one per LNB, Sirius & Thor are the satellites

[23:04:40]

blizzard_:

what happens if i let Mythtv scan those channels.conf files again?

[23:04:47]

blizzard_:

will I end up with a double setup of channels=

[23:04:56]

blizzard_:

will the old channels get updated with the new config?

[23:05:08]

blizzard_:

will old deleted channels be rediscovered?

[23:05:11]

blizzard_:

what will happend?

[23:05:37]

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[23:06:33]

iamlindoro:

you will have a broken copy of every single channel

[23:06:42]

iamlindoro:

since importing channels.conf doesn't work properly

[23:06:47]

blizzard_:

oh that sux

[23:08:02]

blizzard_:

so, what should I do to get an updated channel list?

[23:08:16]

blizzard_:

I am not confident with my old scan

[23:08:26]

blizzard_:

but I want to keep the channel numbers etc

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[23:55:09]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: you are on fire again today :)

[23:55:40]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo, Going to make the "untriaged" report and "new" status mean something

[23:55:46]

iamlindoro:

it's just going to mean a LOT of trac mail

[23:55:49]

Beirdo:

hehe, sweet

[23:56:10]

iamlindoro:

and possibly multiple sittings

[23:56:12]

Beirdo:

I hope post-0.24 goes to non-trac :)

[23:56:25]

Beirdo:

need... better... tool :)

[23:56:30]

kormoc:

find one

[23:56:37]

Beirdo:

xris has.

[23:56:42]

kormoc:

Jira?

[23:56:45]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:56:50]

Beirdo:

it has its issues too

[23:57:04]

kormoc:

personally I hate Jira and wouldn't use it at all (or as little as I could)

[23:57:27]

kormoc:

I don't want to spend a half an hour moving tickets in workflows before being able to close/comment on them

[23:58:00]

Beirdo:

sigh.

[23:58:50]

kormoc:

but I'm just one vote, unlikely to make a difference in the direction :P

[23:59:58]

Beirdo:

heh. We'll see what we can find anyways

MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Current users (170):