| Wednesday, July 21st, 2010, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:13] | kormoc: | ServerSage, it only talks to the BE to reschedule when it's done, nothing more |
| [00:00:34] | kormoc: | ServerSage, and if it's mysql causing the load, you can use the tools to check it all |
| [00:00:38] | wagnerrp: | sphery: ^^^ see link |
| [00:01:04] | ServerSage: | kormoc: See, this is what I was looking for in the way of information. What tools are you referring to? |
| [00:02:38] | kormoc: | ServerSage, there's years of information to be dumped, the easiest would be to watch the "SHOW PROCESSLIST" while it's running and see if it's stalling on anything |
| [00:03:20] | wagnerrp: | sphery: in case youre wondering, the above example is on trunk |
| [00:03:33] | wagnerrp: | but the code hasnt changed recently (aside from fewer items in the programinfo) |
| [00:08:49] | sphery: | wasn't there some change with backend separator for QUERY_RECORDING? |
| [00:08:54] | sphery: | do you remember when that was? |
| [00:09:09] | wagnerrp: | not in the time ive been working with the protocol |
| [00:10:17] | wagnerrp: | only mention i see of it is in rev 32, when it was added |
| [00:10:52] | sphery: | ah, that was QUERY_CHECKFILE |
| [00:13:16] | wagnerrp: | scam artist given 50mo more than the sentence maximum, after photoshopping himself into pictures of charity work in an attempt to garner sympathy |
| [00:14:19] | Beirdo: | sphery: let's use ddate output. I like |
| [00:14:44] | sphery: | heh, yeah |
| [00:14:47] | sphery: | and it's intuitive |
| [00:15:00] | wagnerrp: | you mean i have to parse out a big long character string? no way |
| [00:15:40] | sphery: | why don't you sleep on it. Maybe you'll reconsider in Sweetmorn. Or, perhaps on Prickle-Prickle. |
| [00:16:01] | wagnerrp: | certainly not before St. TIb's day |
| [00:16:08] | sphery: | heh |
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| [00:16:21] | ** wagnerrp wonders if sphery is reading the same man page he is ** | |
| [00:16:23] | Beirdo: | the 55th day of Confusion |
| [00:16:26] | sphery: | yep |
| [00:16:29] | Beirdo: | ain't that the truth |
| [00:16:43] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Was listening to the MythTVCast and a question came to mind |
| [00:16:57] | Beirdo: | "the MythTVCast"? |
| [00:16:57] | wagnerrp: | yes, and of course shes legal |
| [00:17:32] | sphery: | Beirdo: http://mythtvcast.com/ |
| [00:17:54] | sphery: | see ep 22 for someone you may recognize |
| [00:18:59] | wagnerrp: | yeah, that scammer that keeps trying to get money from mythtv users through font and guide data sales |
| [00:20:09] | sphery: | heh |
| [00:20:35] | wagnerrp: | GadgetWisdomGuru: well? out with it! |
| [00:20:44] | ** wagnerrp dodges the vomit ** | |
| [00:20:54] | Beirdo: | heheh |
| [00:20:58] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Sphery, yes, that's the one |
| [00:21:09] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Sorry. Had to step away for a second |
| [00:21:29] | Beirdo: | you done pukin then? :) |
| [00:22:02] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But, to preface it, I've been looking to get involved with projects I use, but I'm not a programmer. So, I've been looking at getting involved with other aspects of my chosen distro. |
| [00:22:42] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | And listening to a certain developer talk on the MythTVCast, I have to ask. Does MythTV have a docs/marketing group? |
| [00:24:04] | wagnerrp: | marketing? no... not sure what exactly they would do anyway since we have no funds |
| [00:24:16] | wagnerrp: | but there is one dev that comes around about once a release and updates the docs |
| [00:25:37] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Wagnerrp, marketing isn't a money thing. |
| [00:26:11] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Marketing is about explaining your product to people |
| [00:26:19] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [00:26:20] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Would you prefer the term PR? |
| [00:26:25] | Beirdo: | marketing is ALL about money |
| [00:26:35] | Beirdo: | at least in every company I've ever been in |
| [00:26:43] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I was listening to the head of the Fedora marketing program |
| [00:26:46] | wagnerrp: | rkulagow... thats who i was thinking of |
| [00:26:47] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Now, they do have money |
| [00:26:49] | wagnerrp: | couldnt come up with the name |
| [00:27:00] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | "The Fedora Marketing Team ensures that people in Fedora can consistently explain to everyone what Fedora is, why the project can help them, and how they can help the project. " |
| [00:27:16] | sphery: | who's deleting my links? |
| [00:27:25] | Beirdo: | and no, we have no "marketing department" :) |
| [00:27:31] | sphery: | hmmm... they didn't delete that time |
| [00:27:31] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo's deleting your links |
| [00:27:33] | sphery: | weird |
| [00:27:39] | sphery: | heh |
| [00:27:44] | Beirdo: | have I? |
| [00:27:51] | ** wagnerrp hides from the impending boot ** | |
| [00:27:59] | ** Beirdo replaces sphery's links with some pr0n ** | |
| [00:28:17] | sphery: | heh |
| [00:28:21] | Beirdo: | argh |
| [00:28:37] | Beirdo: | now I have a MONTH to get flickr support into mythgallery |
| [00:28:57] | wagnerrp: | this is my new second favorite slashdot post... http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725 . . . cid=32969044 |
| [00:29:05] | sphery: | seems it takes 27–28s whether I do a QUERY_RECORDINGS DELETE or TIMESLOT |
| [00:29:16] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But, is it a bad idea to organize non-developers to explain MythTV and to write better docs and contribute to the Wiki? |
| [00:29:27] | wagnerrp: | the phalanx CIWS fires an energy equivalent of 2 big macs per second |
| [00:29:37] | sphery: | GadgetWisdomGuru: definitely not... good documentation is always appreciated |
| [00:29:44] | sphery: | and people heling is, too |
| [00:30:07] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Sphery, so, the question is, I just had this theoretically great idea. |
| [00:30:22] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I'm perhaps the least charismatic person in the universe. |
| [00:30:22] | wagnerrp: | merketing? no idea what to do with that |
| [00:30:37] | wagnerrp: | documentation? talk to rkulagow, and see where he could use some help |
| [00:30:40] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Who do I get to be charismatic on it? |
| [00:30:42] | wagnerrp: | or just start on your own in the wiki |
| [00:30:53] | wagnerrp: | wiki could always use more editors |
| [00:31:01] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I have contributed stuff in there |
| [00:31:18] | wagnerrp: | for example, the menu layouts have sat half finished for as long as ive used mythtv |
| [00:31:24] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But, if I want to start an organized effort? |
| [00:31:29] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | that was the idea. |
| [00:31:44] | Beirdo: | tonight, maybe... I might test the vaapi stuff on my GMA500 |
| [00:32:11] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: yeah... what was with that 'me too' comment on trac with that ticket |
| [00:32:14] | wagnerrp: | tsk tsk... |
| [00:32:20] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [00:32:34] | Beirdo: | it's called "collaboration", buddy :) |
| [00:32:34] | sphery: | well, starting by explaining the idea to others (here and/or the mailing list) is probably best since we don't really have anyone doing that |
| [00:32:48] | sphery: | I'm sure if you can take some of the pressure off Robert, he would very much appreciate it |
| [00:32:49] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I'll give the users mailing list a try. |
| [00:33:04] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I think it would be a nice way for non-developers to give back. |
| [00:33:05] | sphery: | and could actually start here, too |
| [00:33:11] | wagnerrp: | there is very little chance of organizing the users in a functional manner |
| [00:33:20] | sphery: | bouncing some ideas off the people in there (including devs and non-devs) before "going public" |
| [00:33:24] | Beirdo: | organizing users? |
| [00:33:30] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Wagnerrp, you don't need all the users |
| [00:33:34] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | You need some users. |
| [00:33:35] | sphery: | you're #3210, Beirdo |
| [00:33:36] | Beirdo: | that's WORSE than herding cats |
| [00:33:45] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Like the army says, all you need is a few good men. |
| [00:33:48] | wagnerrp: | GadgetWisdomGuru: but all the users want to participate, in opposite directions |
| [00:33:55] | sphery: | I'm #99283 :( |
| [00:33:59] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | That's way groups are important. |
| [00:34:04] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Groups have processes, hierarchy. |
| [00:34:09] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Organization |
| [00:34:13] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | why, not way. |
| [00:34:16] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [00:34:42] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: my sister used to work with someone who had a few cats and a shepherd dog |
| [00:34:48] | wagnerrp: | like a border collie or something |
| [00:34:51] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [00:34:56] | wagnerrp: | the thing would herd the cats around all day long |
| [00:34:59] | wagnerrp: | drove the things nuts |
| [00:34:59] | Beirdo: | we had cats + sheltie... |
| [00:35:15] | Beirdo: | one of the cats was smart and would just lie down |
| [00:35:22] | wagnerrp: | they were losing hair from the stress |
| [00:35:25] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But, here is the proposal, in a nutshell. And I'll refine it as I mentally do so. |
| [00:35:29] | Beirdo: | the other... grew up with the dog, and they would play constantly |
| [00:35:40] | Beirdo: | both of them knew what "get the kitty" meant |
| [00:36:17] | Beirdo: | of course, company would be offended... so we'd tell them to stop playing, get the dog lying at our feet |
| [00:36:26] | wagnerrp: | GadgetWisdomGuru: were not trying to discourage you or anything, just relaying past experiences about trying to mount any sort of constructive discussion with the user base |
| [00:36:31] | Beirdo: | then the cat would come ripping in a few minutes later and pounce on the dog |
| [00:36:45] | Beirdo: | and then they'd go chase each other around the house again |
| [00:36:49] | wagnerrp: | check out any of the threads about rewriting mythmusic, or the OSD, or removing settings or features |
| [00:36:52] | Beirdo: | they were having fun :) |
| [00:37:02] | wagnerrp: | it pretty quickly devolves to drivel |
| [00:37:45] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Wagnerrp, I have read them. |
| [00:38:02] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But, this is the idea I'm contemplating: |
| [00:38:18] | ** Beirdo thinks of bottle rockets ** | |
| [00:41:59] | iamlindoro: | Someone can tell the thief on the users list that the issue is with the API/CDN servers, not with us-- some of them appear to be handling requests wrong-- one that had that issue last night for me no longer does today because I got a different CDN... but I'm not helping a thief |
| [00:43:15] | wagnerrp: | but but... i recorded this with my own video camera |
| [00:43:39] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | A group of volunteers set up and endorsed by the developers whose mission statement it is to update documentation(including the wiki) and related materials to encourage adoption, and to coordinate constructive feedback from the user base to the developers. |
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| [00:44:23] | wagnerrp: | you might want to talk to skd5aner about that |
| [00:44:31] | wagnerrp: | hes made it a one-man mission to keep the release notes up to date |
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| [00:45:34] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | So far, we've established two people I might talk to about this idea, skd5aner and rkulagow. |
| [00:47:01] | wagnerrp: | wow... $165M budget for that movie |
| [00:47:22] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | My theory is, if there was a mailing list and an announcement, a dozen or so people would volunteer, and a third of that would stick around to start. |
| [00:47:40] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | More once it got organized. |
| [00:48:05] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Another dozen people would sign up and not go any farther. |
| [00:52:35] | wagnerrp: | before you go forward with anything, you may also want to discuss this with the recently formed board iamlindoro briefly mentioned in the webcast |
| [00:53:22] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Wagnerrp, that was my point. I would not go ahead with anything without endorsement from the MythTV establishment. |
| [00:53:29] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | How does one find the MythTV Board? |
| [00:54:09] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I'm only 17 minutes into that podcast, by the way. |
| [00:54:25] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I need my ears for something else for a bit before I can get back to it. |
| [00:54:32] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Editing audio. |
| [00:55:20] | wagnerrp: | seems thats chris, chris, and janne |
| [00:55:26] | sphery: | wagnerrp: copy/paste is evil |
| [00:55:48] | sphery: | QUERY_RECORDINGS DELETE -> QUERY_RECORDING TIMESLOT takes 2 changes |
| [00:55:54] | sphery: | I only did one |
| [00:56:05] | wagnerrp: | by majority vote, theyve decided janne is going to change his name to chris as well |
| [00:56:32] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But, is there an official line of communications to the entire board at once? |
| [00:57:16] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | IE, is there a recording secretary, as is recommended by Robert's Rules? |
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| [01:01:22] | iamlindoro: | GadgetWisdomGuru, Really the only real way to communicate with the board at once is a) to send an e-mail to the mythtv dev list, or b) to use the contact form on the web site. b) is filtered slightly but messages of note end up on our private mailing list, a) is public but we will all more or less see it |
| [01:01:40] | sphery: | wagnerrp: 28s to 0.5s (for 5x mythlink.pl) |
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| [01:01:54] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I was thinking of using the contact form on the website. |
| [01:01:57] | sphery: | and it only took a couple hours because of a stupid S |
| [01:02:33] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But, I will put it in writing there. |
| [01:03:13] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | In as detailed an explanation as possible and see what comes of it. |
| [01:03:25] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I now return you to your regularly scheduled banter |
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| [01:08:05] | wagnerrp: | oh, i didnt even notice... heh |
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| [01:08:19] | wagnerrp: | yeah, that S makes a /big/ difference |
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| [01:09:41] | ** wagnerrp anxiously awaits bobnvic's response ** | |
| [01:10:07] | iamlindoro: | heh |
| [01:10:19] | iamlindoro: | I am anxious to learn how this is my fault and I am a jerk also |
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| [01:11:04] | wagnerrp: | aargh... |
| [01:11:10] | wagnerrp: | outa tunahs |
| [01:11:50] | iamlindoro: | literacola |
| [01:12:10] | kormoc: | Mmm.... Vegas... |
| [01:13:05] | sphery: | New Vegas? |
| [01:13:24] | wagnerrp: | when does that come out? |
| [01:13:37] | iamlindoro: | Liked fallout 3, looking forward to new vegas |
| [01:13:51] | sphery: | kormoc: "That's amazing, You must know the creators of the game or something? Awesome. Can you introduce me? I want to get games early too!" |
| [01:13:54] | kormoc: | Nah, just booked a trip for 8/27–8/29 in real life for a friend's bachelor party |
| [01:14:06] | ** kormoc cues the hangover jokes ** | |
| [01:14:13] | wagnerrp: | ooh, oct 19th |
| [01:14:17] | sphery: | heh |
| [01:14:29] | iamlindoro: | Heh, I'll be there the next week doing the Silverman Ironman triathlon |
| [01:14:50] | sphery: | do you all paint yourself like NYC street performing robots? |
| [01:14:58] | iamlindoro: | yes, just like that |
| [01:15:06] | ** kormoc wonders what silver + iron make ** | |
| [01:15:06] | sphery: | figured--it just makes sense |
| [01:15:14] | iamlindoro: | Slivron! |
| [01:15:23] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Sphery, they still do that? I haven't seen it in a while. |
| [01:15:25] | sphery: | AgFe or would it be FeAg |
| [01:15:44] | sphery: | really I've only seen it on CSI: NY and similar shows :) |
| [01:15:49] | kormoc: | Heh, google finds a article "SYNTHESIS AND MAGNETIC PROPERTIES OF NANOSIZED SILVER-IRONCOMPOSITE NANOPARTICLES" |
| [01:15:56] | sphery: | oh, and 30 Rock! |
| [01:16:15] | sphery: | my world reality is formed via network TV |
| [01:16:22] | kormoc: | We have silver painted folks in Seattle from time to time |
| [01:16:33] | kormoc: | sphery, as every American's should! |
| [01:16:37] | sphery: | yep |
| [01:16:53] | sphery: | and all my opinions are the medias, and the medias alone |
| [01:16:55] | iamlindoro: | Everyone who puts movie stills up as fanart at TMDb should be SHOT IN THE FACE |
| [01:17:21] | sphery: | did you see the "3D" covers that justinh found |
| [01:17:21] | kormoc: | ^^++ |
| [01:17:31] | kormoc: | sphery, special 3d? |
| [01:17:33] | iamlindoro: | I complained about those months ago |
| [01:17:33] | sphery: | was an actual picture of the DVD case (with sides visible |
| [01:17:39] | ServerSage: | I'm gearing up to get a new frontend, any recommendations? Looking for small, silent, no-build. Just want to buy it and install Mythbuntu on it and go. I do have two HD-PVRs, so HD playback is a must. Audio over HDMI a plus. |
| [01:17:45] | iamlindoro: | gbee complained about them in their foums |
| [01:17:48] | iamlindoro: | all for naught |
| [01:17:57] | kormoc: | ServerSage, mac mini |
| [01:18:07] | sphery: | foum... sounds like what happens when you get the match too close to the can of gasoline |
| [01:18:36] | ServerSage: | kormoc: Ug, so if I want to spend less than $700 I have to build it myself I guess? |
| [01:18:39] | sphery: | ++ on the Mac Mini (read, "Not a toy processor") |
| [01:19:30] | ** iamlindoro never gets tired of the Tomb Raider fanart, though ** | |
| [01:19:30] | kormoc: | ServerSage, Cheap, Small, No work involved, Pick two |
| [01:19:43] | sphery: | I do small (no volume), silent (no decibels) with a drill.... |
| [01:20:03] | sphery: | just put the MythBox in some other room and run cables through/around walls to the TV |
| [01:20:28] | ServerSage: | kormoc: What is wrong with the revo's and such? I assume there is some reason one should stay away. |
| [01:20:33] | sphery: | no case is as small or silent or pretty as an invisible case that's out of earshot |
| [01:20:46] | sphery: | toy processors... |
| [01:21:05] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Sphery, you've never seen a man painted as a robot?I saw it in SF once last year. |
| [01:21:09] | ServerSage: | sphery: I don't do video editing with my frontend. lol. It just plays back recorded TV and music. |
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| [01:21:27] | kormoc: | ServerSage, it's still nice to have a fast ui |
| [01:21:31] | sphery: | GadgetWisdomGuru: only on tv |
| [01:21:34] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Ok |
| [01:22:11] | kormoc: | ServerSage, find a late 2009 used mac mini, they're on CL in my area for mid $400's, which is the same as the ions + optical drive |
| [01:22:13] | ServerSage: | kormoc: Aaah, so the UI is sluggish with the atoms? Thats a PERFECT reason to not get an ION. Hehe. |
| [01:22:37] | ServerSage: | kormoc: I though the 2009 mini's where small hot plates you could fry eggs on. |
| [01:22:43] | sphery: | yeah, and playback requires some grunt unless you're willing to bet everything on some company's providing a way to decode everything you will ever want to watch when you use that Atom |
| [01:22:54] | kormoc: | ServerSage, As I don't own an ION, I can't say for sure, but the mailing list has a pile of threads with people complaining as such |
| [01:22:57] | sphery: | if you trust that company will support all formats you like |
| [01:23:10] | kormoc: | ServerSage, mine is the 2009 with the nvidia gpu and it's *great* |
| [01:23:12] | sphery: | and you don't care for online video/MythNetvision (and the Flash resource hog) |
| [01:23:21] | sphery: | and you don't want the computer to, er, compute |
| [01:23:28] | sphery: | then you can maybe make it work |
| [01:23:39] | ServerSage: | kormoc: sphery: do you guys just use the OSX mythfrontend? Or do you install linux on your mini? |
| [01:23:40] | curtlee (curtlee!~curtlee@unaffiliated/curtlee) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | |
| [01:23:53] | sphery: | or, for the same cost and same power usage and same size and same quietness, you can get a real processor |
| [01:23:57] | kormoc: | ServerSage, I run linux on my mini and I actually use it as my MBE and FE |
| [01:24:02] | sphery: | note, however, I am /very/ biases against Atom |
| [01:24:08] | sphery: | er, biased |
| [01:24:10] | sphery: | and fully admit it |
| [01:24:27] | kormoc: | I'm *really* happy with my mini, hence why I recommend it |
| [01:24:34] | ServerSage: | sphery: I'm ok with that. :) I had no opinion until I came in here. :) |
| [01:24:41] | sphery: | I actually don't have a Mac Mini, but I was ++'ing the idea because it's not an Atom |
| [01:24:52] | sphery: | and it has a good proc |
| [01:24:54] | sphery: | and it's low power |
| [01:25:06] | sphery: | and, really, kind of pretty |
| [01:25:08] | wagnerrp: | a 'solar energy plant' really just doesnt fit the world of fallout |
| [01:25:12] | sphery: | (and I hate myself for saying so) |
| [01:25:22] | curtlee (curtlee!~curtlee@unaffiliated/curtlee) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [01:25:29] | ServerSage: | sphery: What do you have for a FE? |
| [01:25:44] | sphery: | the biggest, ugliest, loudest computer you can imagine |
| [01:25:54] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Why are you biased against Atom? I just don't get it. |
| [01:25:55] | wagnerrp: | (stuffed behind a wall) |
| [01:26:17] | wagnerrp: | GadgetWisdomGuru: he doesnt like having to rely on hardware acceleration to do things |
| [01:26:22] | sphery: | (actually, I just moved the loud one to be my dev box, so it only runs sometimes, and swapped a 65W TDP system into the frontend role) |
| [01:26:27] | kormoc: | GadgetWisdomGuru, they're not cheap |
| [01:26:55] | ServerSage: | Gah, SF area doesn't have much in the way of 2009 mini's on CL. Bummer. |
| [01:26:57] | wagnerrp: | too many people have been burned by restrictions of Xv, XvMC, and other similar interfaces |
| [01:27:00] | sphery: | but it was mainly because I burned up the mobo on a different computer, and my newer computer was faster and less power-hungry, so it made sense to roll them down |
| [01:27:05] | wagnerrp: | and he just likes the flexibility of a powerful processor |
| [01:27:09] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I'm near looking for something to replace my two frontends, which are Athlon X2 BE-2400s... |
| [01:27:11] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I like low power. |
| [01:27:15] | sphery: | but, yeah, it's in a different room, so I never even see it, really |
| [01:27:20] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | My backend uses the bulk of the power |
| [01:27:27] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | The frontends shut themselves off when not in use. |
| [01:27:40] | wagnerrp: | thats the bigger issue |
| [01:27:54] | kormoc: | GadgetWisdomGuru, for a optical drive on a ion, the cheapest I can find is ~$475, the mini isn't that much more for a much more powerful system, better looks (imho), etc |
| [01:27:56] | sphery: | GadgetWisdomGuru / ServerSage : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/25w-performance-pc,2551.html + http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-e7200-g31,2039.html + http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-ato . . . cy,2069.html |
| [01:28:08] | wagnerrp: | when youre only running 10–20% duty cycle, that underperforming, low power processor isnt so much of a requirement |
| [01:28:30] | sphery: | GadgetWisdomGuru / ServerSage : and http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010-July/293388.html (from today, even) |
| [01:29:19] | ServerSage: | sphery: You and kormoc already have me sold on the mini. ;) |
| [01:29:24] | ServerSage: | I'm an Apple iWhore anyway. |
| [01:29:29] | sphery: | heh, cool |
| [01:29:36] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I just have never bought an Apple product. |
| [01:29:43] | sphery: | just don't blame me if you don't like it |
| [01:29:45] | sphery: | :) |
| [01:29:47] | ServerSage: | GadgetWisdomGuru: Don't EVER buy one. Once you do, it's hard NOT to. |
| [01:29:48] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I'm not sold on Atom. I like the mini-ITX form factor though |
| [01:30:02] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | ServerSage, I own an Android phone now. I have proven my willpower |
| [01:30:12] | sphery: | My parents just showed up a couple weeks ago with new iPhone 4's... I was pretty impressed. |
| [01:30:36] | ServerSage: | GadgetWisdomGuru: I once, long long ago, was a Linux PDA, linux desktop, linux laptop guy. Then one day a friend gave me his old iMac. The bastard. |
| [01:30:36] | sphery: | Not enough to get one for myself (as I'm a FOSS/Freedom whore :) |
| [01:30:58] | sphery: | but it was a really nice phone |
| [01:31:20] | ServerSage: | sphery: Yeah, the4 is a REALLY nice phone. |
| [01:31:31] | ServerSage: | As long as you don't want to make phone calls apparently. Hehe. |
| [01:31:59] | sphery: | heh, yeah |
| [01:32:06] | sphery: | they have cases on theirs so it wasn't a problem |
| [01:32:28] | sphery: | but it does have problems when reception isn't great |
| [01:32:37] | ServerSage: | kormoc: How fast of a mini should I hold out for? 1.83 core 2 duo good enough? |
| [01:32:50] | wagnerrp: | good enough for what? |
| [01:33:03] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Sphery, Amen. I like my freedom. |
| [01:33:04] | ServerSage: | wagnerrp: Watching 1080i recordings. |
| [01:33:06] | sphery: | 2.6GHz is probably good if you want high-bitrate H.264 decoding in software |
| [01:33:13] | wagnerrp: | what kind of recordings? |
| [01:33:25] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | ServerSage is that Apple or AT&T though? |
| [01:33:28] | sphery: | does the Mac Mini have nvidia graphics? |
| [01:33:29] | ServerSage: | wagnerrp: Whatever the HDPVR spits out. |
| [01:33:34] | wagnerrp: | then no |
| [01:33:38] | Shadow__X: | GadgetWisdomGuru: they have mini itx boards that can do core 2 duo's and if i am not mistaken socket 1156 |
| [01:33:46] | ServerSage: | GadgetWisdomGuru: Apple, the iPhone has a death grip issue. |
| [01:33:57] | kormoc: | ServerSage, I have a 2.0 ghz and I'm happy with it, that said, I do use vdpau for my decoding |
| [01:34:14] | ServerSage: | kormoc: Does it handle 1080i recordings ok? |
| [01:34:19] | kormoc: | sphery, Aye, 9400m |
| [01:34:28] | sphery: | yeah, if you go below 2.6GHz, you will need nvidia + VDPAU for HD-PVR |
| [01:34:32] | kormoc: | ServerSage, perfectly (hdpvr capture) |
| [01:34:40] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Shadow_X, I know. I'm just not sure I need that much processing power though. |
| [01:34:42] | sphery: | 2.6GHz would probably be about where you could start thinking about software decode for HD-PVR |
| [01:34:44] | kormoc: | ServerSage, haven't tried bluray as I don't own any |
| [01:35:03] | sphery: | should be fine with VDPAU |
| [01:35:13] | ServerSage: | sphery: I see no reason not to use VDPAU. |
| [01:35:21] | Shadow__X: | ServerSage: which gen mac mini are you looking at |
| [01:35:27] | sphery: | says a guy who neither owns a VDPAU-capable GPU nor a BluRay disc |
| [01:35:42] | sphery: | (but VDPAU should be fine for any BluRay) |
| [01:35:43] | ServerSage: | Shadow__X: I'm *looking* for a 2009 era, but all I can find are the older ones. |
| [01:36:07] | sphery: | ServerSage: yeah, mac mini with vdpau support would be ideal |
| [01:36:09] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I broke down and bought a supermarket Blu-ray player |
| [01:36:28] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I own 3 blu-ray discs and have never watched a single one |
| [01:36:30] | sphery: | that way, you can use vdpau for things it supports, but you're not limited for things it doesn't (include Flash) |
| [01:36:34] | Shadow__X: | ServerSage: the older ones had gma 950's and x3100's if i am not mistaken so no gpu offloading there. I am sure if you look hard enough or are willing to pay more you can find em |
| [01:36:42] | ServerSage: | If I'm not mistaken, the older ones had the intel video, 2009 is when they went Nvidia. Right? |
| [01:36:44] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Sphery, good point on the Flash. |
| [01:36:55] | kormoc: | ServerSage, right |
| [01:37:06] | ServerSage: | Shadow__X: That confirms my thoughts. :) |
| [01:37:16] | sphery: | was it 2009 or 2010 that they went about 1/2 the size? |
| [01:37:44] | kormoc: | the newest (2010) halved the height, aye |
| [01:37:59] | sphery: | ah, yeah |
| [01:38:02] | Shadow__X: | but changed the gpu |
| [01:38:03] | sphery: | that one is pretty |
| [01:38:04] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Is it worth it to get a new system to save space? |
| [01:38:12] | sphery: | Shadow__X: not nvidia in 2010? |
| [01:38:18] | ServerSage: | Maybe I can drug the wife and in her half-witted stupor convince her we *need* a new mac mini. |
| [01:38:25] | Shadow__X: | more like nvidia 320m |
| [01:38:34] | sphery: | oh, so a better nvidia? |
| [01:38:38] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | ServerSage, try hypnosis. |
| [01:38:47] | sphery: | I'm finding more and more reasons to like the Mac Mini |
| [01:38:50] | kormoc: | sphery, aye, a better nvidia |
| [01:38:57] | sphery: | nice |
| [01:38:59] | ServerSage: | GadgetWisdomGuru: We've discovered she does not hypnotize. :) |
| [01:39:17] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Vegas stage show? |
| [01:39:17] | Shadow__X: | yes but i was looking at some of the mailiing list it seems like it might need a bit of elbow greese to get working |
| [01:39:19] | ServerSage: | I'm sold. New Mac MIni it is. God I hate this channel, and Apple. Hehe. |
| [01:39:20] | sphery: | now my ++ can be for more than just the fact that Mac Mini's aren't atom :) |
| [01:39:20] | Shadow__X: | in linux that is |
| [01:39:35] | sphery: | hehe, it's apple's fault |
| [01:39:40] | sphery: | they made it better this year |
| [01:39:41] | kormoc: | Shadow__X, the 2010's might, my 2009 was pretty painless |
| [01:39:47] | ServerSage: | GadgetWisdomGuru: No, local college show. |
| [01:39:53] | kormoc: | Shadow__X, one line for alsa and one line for grub |
| [01:39:55] | Shadow__X: | kormoc: yeah thats what i meant to say sorry for that |
| [01:39:57] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Fun |
| [01:40:07] | deathadder (deathadder!~no@ganjaman.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [01:40:08] | Shadow__X: | i have to say the new mac mini has tempted me as well |
| [01:40:19] | ServerSage: | It is damn sexy. |
| [01:40:20] | Shadow__X: | uses 10 watts of power on idle |
| [01:40:21] | kormoc: | it just takes a little time, they're pretty new |
| [01:40:53] | Shadow__X: | Now it even has a hdmi port *and* does sound over it |
| [01:41:02] | sphery: | kormoc: have you been burning up more GPUs? what have you got against nvidia, anyway? |
| [01:41:02] | ServerSage: | Is it worth it to drop the extra $150 on a new one to get the 2.66GHz versus the standard 2.4GHz? |
| [01:41:42] | kormoc: | ServerSage, imho, no, ram would be better, but I don't mind having to use vdpau |
| [01:41:48] | sphery: | ServerSage: 2.4GHz would be fine for MythTV stuff... I don't know whether it would handle the HD-PVR playback in software, but vdpau should handle that. |
| [01:42:15] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Speaking of hardware, are people still buying dedicated sound cards for MythTV? |
| [01:42:18] | ** Beirdo yawns ** | |
| [01:42:25] | sphery: | I wouldn't even go on record saying the 2.66GHz would do software decoding of HD-PVR recordings... Just that it's starting to be in the range... |
| [01:42:40] | wagnerrp: | GadgetWisdomGuru: most people are going to digital audio |
| [01:42:48] | wagnerrp: | either provided onboard their motherboard or video card |
| [01:42:59] | ** Beirdo is not most people... yet :) ** | |
| [01:43:00] | sphery: | I'm using integrated, but my ears are very forgiving |
| [01:43:04] | iamlindoro: | Haven't bought a discrete card in a long, long time |
| [01:43:14] | ServerSage: | Ok, I've wasted enough of the channels time with the age old "What is the best frontend" question. I'm off, thanks folks! |
| [01:43:18] | Beirdo: | how about an indiscrete card? :) |
| [01:43:30] | kormoc: | Beirdo, that's for vegas! |
| [01:43:34] | Beirdo: | hehehe |
| [01:43:35] | sphery: | I don't buy discrete audio cards... I keep using the ones I bought in the early 1990s :) |
| [01:43:36] | Beirdo: | right |
| [01:43:58] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I haven't either. But I need SPDIF OUT as I don't have HDMI on my receiver and the TV passthrough only outputs 2 channel audio regardless of what it gets from the HDMI cable |
| [01:43:58] | sphery: | ServerSage: good luck and enjoy |
| [01:44:59] | wagnerrp: | discrete cards get you two things |
| [01:45:03] | Shadow__X: | GadgetWisdomGuru: funny thing about most macs is that they do opitcal out |
| [01:45:14] | Shadow__X: | mini tosslink |
| [01:45:24] | wagnerrp: | 1. increased electrical isolation and much higher SNR |
| [01:45:27] | Shadow__X: | toslink* |
| [01:45:35] | wagnerrp: | 2. hardware acceleration for 3D audio |
| [01:45:43] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Wagnerrp, do you have SNR on digital? |
| [01:45:45] | wagnerrp: | we dont care about 2, and any form of digital audio doesnt care about 1 |
| [01:46:00] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Wagnerrp, understood. |
| [01:46:13] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Half the motherboards I buy have the SPDIF header. |
| [01:46:21] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But no actual SPDIF jacks |
| [01:47:37] | ** Beirdo hopes the ticket originator for #8678 shows up :) ** | |
| [01:47:43] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I'm just thinking for the future. |
| [01:47:51] | Beirdo: | wanna close it already, I'm just impatient |
| [01:48:51] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | interesting ticket though |
| [01:53:57] | Beirdo: | sphery: you in? |
| [01:54:05] | sphery: | yep |
| [01:54:08] | Beirdo: | #4280... how is that UPnP? |
| [01:54:28] | Beirdo: | am I missing something here? :) |
| [01:54:45] | kormoc: | might have been renamed |
| [01:54:49] | wagnerrp: | the upnp server is run through mythxml |
| [01:54:57] | Beirdo: | ahhhh |
| [01:55:08] | sphery: | yeah |
| [01:55:09] | wagnerrp: | probably the closest thing to link it to |
| [01:55:17] | Beirdo: | OK, so the actual change is in mythxml stuff then |
| [01:55:21] | sphery: | so it's all cdev's code and that makes it his |
| [01:55:24] | Beirdo: | OK, I getcha |
| [01:55:31] | wagnerrp: | the only purpose for mythxml is for running the upnp server |
| [01:55:31] | sphery: | not that I'm saying you can't work on it |
| [01:55:40] | sphery: | but it assigned it to him |
| [01:55:42] | Beirdo: | I'm just cherry-picking "simple" things to fix, etc |
| [01:56:09] | Beirdo: | especially OLD ones :) |
| [01:56:11] | sphery: | yeah, that one makes sense, but i haven't touched it because I don't know what cdev thought of it |
| [01:56:23] | Beirdo: | yeah, I'll leave it for him |
| [01:56:36] | Beirdo: | hopefully he has time before 0.24 :) |
| [01:56:39] | sphery: | though I'd probably call the attribute something different |
| [01:56:46] | sphery: | so it doesn't sound like it's the version of XML we're using |
| [01:56:53] | sphery: | but the version of the XML status page |
| [01:57:43] | sphery: | would be great if he would show up and give a status update on his complete reimplementation of the UPnP/MythXML stuff (that should be supporting XML, JSON, ...) |
| [01:57:55] | Beirdo: | yeah, it would be nice :) |
| [01:58:05] | sphery: | haven't heard from him in a while, so I hope he's doing well |
| [01:58:15] | iamlindoro: | bCould post to developers, that's a GREAT WAY to get IMMEDIATE RESPONSE from fellow devs |
| [01:58:27] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [01:58:28] | ** kormoc shifty eyes ** | |
| [01:58:34] | Beirdo: | calm down, iamlindoro :) |
| [01:58:38] | sphery: | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/418085#418085 was when he mentioned it |
| [01:58:42] | Beirdo: | I will be reading/responding :) |
| [01:59:02] | Beirdo: | wow. January |
| [01:59:03] | kormoc: | Woot! |
| [01:59:14] | kormoc: | Warehouse 13 and Eureka cross over this season! |
| [01:59:27] | wagnerrp: | dvdnav is real programming |
| [01:59:30] | ** wagnerrp avoids ** | |
| [02:01:53] | Beirdo: | Hmm |
| [02:01:54] | Beirdo: | #724 |
| [02:02:22] | Beirdo: | hopefully THAT was actually fixed in the ui-osd merge? |
| [02:03:35] | sphery: | Beirdo: yeah, it's "fixed" |
| [02:03:40] | sphery: | they're all consistent, now :) |
| [02:03:50] | Beirdo: | yay. |
| [02:03:59] | Beirdo: | our oldest bug... fixed :) |
| [02:04:03] | sphery: | but see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/440076#440076 |
| [02:04:31] | Beirdo: | bah |
| [02:04:39] | Beirdo: | let them create a new ticket :) |
| [02:04:40] | sphery: | that's where everyone started complaining because now it's a single value for all |
| [02:04:49] | sphery: | users (and some devs) want the settings back |
| [02:04:52] | sphery: | I want it in themes |
| [02:05:16] | sphery: | and I think that if we do settings, we'll need several different ones for different timeouts |
| [02:05:23] | Beirdo: | I don't think putting it as a themer's decision is necessarily the right way |
| [02:05:23] | sphery: | and it will be too many |
| [02:05:42] | Beirdo: | but I ain't got a good suggestion :) |
| [02:06:14] | Beirdo: | hmmm, actually |
| [02:06:19] | sphery: | putting it in the theme lets the themer completely change the UI of the program |
| [02:06:24] | Beirdo: | having the defaults in the theme is a good idea |
| [02:06:35] | sphery: | to the point where on one hand you have XBMC and with a little theming (and no other changes) you have Boxee |
| [02:06:38] | Beirdo: | and if you want to customize... make your own custom theme |
| [02:06:51] | sphery: | yeah, I think the same for caption fonts |
| [02:07:17] | sphery: | and, I'm trying to figure out if the idea of using xml fragments to override "theme-specified 'settings'" would be good or bad |
| [02:07:36] | sphery: | so that a user can just download a "caption font theme" or an "osd timeout" theme |
| [02:07:51] | sphery: | where we just parse that as if it's from the theme, but it overrides what the theme specifies |
| [02:07:59] | Beirdo: | as long as the defaults match MOST user preferrence, there will be little customizable |
| [02:08:02] | sphery: | but I don't know theming, so I don't know if that's ludicrous |
| [02:08:07] | Beirdo: | customizing... happening |
| [02:08:19] | Beirdo: | by brain is not operational, it seems |
| [02:08:26] | sphery: | yeah, and that's the thing... 99.999999% of the people saying we need these things are saying they want the same values |
| [02:08:34] | sphery: | we had some stupid values for timeouts before mythui-osd |
| [02:08:39] | sphery: | now we have a reasonable one |
| [02:08:54] | sphery: | and if we make it a couple of reasonable defaults, I'd bet that nearly everyone would be satisfied |
| [02:08:55] | Beirdo: | maybe a touch too short for some |
| [02:09:04] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [02:09:14] | sphery: | yeah, we need to differentiate between short and long at least |
| [02:09:18] | sphery: | maybe a short/medium/long |
| [02:09:44] | sphery: | but that all requires changing the code to use different values at this point--markk was just working to finish and didn't have time to do all that + write the entire mythui-osd |
| [02:10:20] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [02:10:26] | sphery: | even if he just did a direct replacement of the 2 setting values we had, he'd have missed a good 50% of the cases where the code specified the value and the settings weren't used (the whole crux of #724) |
| [02:10:38] | Beirdo: | understandable |
| [02:10:46] | sphery: | so this way, it's all consistent and someone needs to go through the code and fix all the places to "do the right thing" |
| [02:10:52] | sphery: | whatever that may be |
| [02:11:03] | sphery: | (can you tell you touched a sore spot for me ;) |
| [02:11:05] | Beirdo: | yeah... |
| [02:11:10] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [02:12:02] | sphery: | and the patch gigem posted needs changing: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/440167#440167 |
| [02:12:12] | sphery: | it just does a single setting, but it uses equally broken default values |
| [02:12:37] | sphery: | should be a default of 5s if there's just one (or 3s for short and 10s for long if there's 2), IMHO |
| [02:12:48] | Beirdo: | sounds like you have a cause to champion :) |
| [02:13:32] | sphery: | since nearly everyone who was complaining about the need to keep the settings was saying, "I had to change mine to 3s/10s because the defaults 2s/3s weren't good for me." |
| [02:13:40] | sphery: | and, yeah, /everyone/ was changing it to the same values |
| [02:13:46] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [02:13:49] | sphery: | sorry |
| [02:13:57] | Beirdo: | 3/5/10 would be a good set, I think |
| [02:13:59] | sphery: | just had to recap |
| [02:14:03] | sphery: | 3/5/10 would be good |
| [02:14:12] | sphery: | put them in themes/default |
| [02:14:21] | sphery: | and then users can change them if they're so inclined |
| [02:14:26] | sphery: | and themers can adjust them |
| [02:14:38] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [02:15:21] | sphery: | and "My grandma shouldn't have to edit XML" is /not/ a good reason to put it in the UI and clutter up the already-too-many-settings pages with next-to-useless widgets/settings that new users have to read and decide whether to change |
| [02:15:42] | sphery: | I can't even find the settings in the UI anymore |
| [02:16:07] | sphery: | and I see /way/ too many people in here just editing DB settings directly (in mysql or MythWeb) because they can't find the UI widgets for them |
| [02:16:14] | Beirdo: | however "I shouldn't need to use vi" is a good point |
| [02:16:26] | rhollanZZZ (rhollanZZZ!~rene@firewall.hollan.org) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) | |
| [02:16:27] | sphery: | yeah |
| [02:16:28] | Beirdo: | should be editable via remote if possible |
| [02:16:32] | Beirdo: | or via web |
| [02:16:38] | sphery: | IMHO, via remote |
| [02:16:45] | sphery: | even if we /also/ allow editing via web |
| [02:16:48] | ** wagnerrp is a bad boy who tinkers in the database ** | |
| [02:16:51] | Beirdo: | aye |
| [02:17:16] | Beirdo: | Oh, I futz with my database at times, but then again... if I screw it up, it's my problem |
| [02:17:42] | Beirdo: | #3911 |
| [02:17:42] | sphery: | I did break danielk's backend settings stuff with changes to settings text, so maybe I'll use that opportunity to make some changes to it when I regen the XML |
| [02:17:47] | Beirdo: | why is taht still open?! |
| [02:18:11] | wagnerrp: | oddly, after writing the bindings so as to manage database access, the /only/ two things i ever touch in the database are changing failed jobs to queued, or fixing the subtitles on shows so they match that in thetvdb, and can be exported to mythvideo |
| [02:19:17] | Beirdo: | I occasionally mess with settings |
| [02:19:20] | Beirdo: | but rarely |
| [02:19:33] | Beirdo: | a "rename this machine" would be useful though |
| [02:19:39] | Beirdo: | from the UI |
| [02:19:40] | sphery: | we have a UI for editing title/subtitle in mythfrontend |
| [02:19:45] | sphery: | woudl be nice to put it in mythweb, too |
| [02:19:51] | wagnerrp: | well the backup/restore scripts do manage that |
| [02:20:18] | sphery: | I have a patch that adds description to the dialog, but it's useless until we have a multiline text edit (or at least a text edit that handles text longer than the box) |
| [02:20:39] | sphery: | yeah, restore will rename machines |
| [02:20:47] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . d_or_backend |
| [02:20:53] | sphery: | does it without actually restoring, too |
| [02:21:00] | sphery: | (i.e. works on the DB in place) |
| [02:21:22] | wagnerrp: | sphery: sure, but that takes so much longer than a mythpython; db = MythDB(); rec = db.searchRecorded(title=<whatever>, subtitle=<whatever>).next(); rec.update({'subtitle':<newsubtitle>}) |
| [02:21:45] | wagnerrp: | (i dont have keyboards on my frontends) |
| [02:21:58] | sphery: | Beirdo: yeah, I don't even see that http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/14365 hack in the code, now (from #3911) |
| [02:22:19] | sphery: | wagnerrp: heh, yeah, that is quick |
| [02:22:46] | sphery: | using a remote to edit title/subtitle is annoying, so I always have to get out my keyboard |
| [02:23:02] | sphery: | which is why I think we should allow edit of recording metadata in mythweb, eventually |
| [02:23:09] | Beirdo: | can we close that thing? |
| [02:23:29] | wagnerrp: | of course changing the recorded table, without changing matching recordedprogram/oldrecorded tables probably breaks something somewhere |
| [02:23:35] | wagnerrp: | so i change it back after the export |
| [02:23:42] | sphery: | I also want to change program details to use actual mythui stuff (not html) and then make it so you can hit EDIT while viewing and then edit any of the (user-editable) data |
| [02:23:55] | ajisen (ajisen!~stevewu@nat/yahoo/x-qsiraafyuysgklao) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [02:23:58] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [02:24:02] | sphery: | changing title/subtitle isn't an issue |
| [02:24:11] | sphery: | chanid/starttime, however |
| [02:24:18] | leprechau (leprechau!~leprechau@temp4.wavelinx.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | |
| [02:24:22] | wagnerrp: | even with duplicate detection? |
| [02:24:32] | ajisen: | hi there |
| [02:24:40] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Hi there, ajisen |
| [02:24:41] | sphery: | you still have the oldrecorded entry saying it was recorded |
| [02:24:42] | wagnerrp: | i suppose it would just show up as 'previously recorded' instead of 'existing recording' |
| [02:24:50] | wagnerrp: | different state, same effect |
| [02:25:00] | Beirdo: | sphery: we gonna have a bug-squashing session this release? |
| [02:25:00] | ajisen: | hi GadgetWisdomGuru |
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| [02:25:25] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Ajisen, what brings you here tonight? |
| [02:25:42] | sphery: | so the only way editing title/sub would have an effect is if a) one or both of the 2 episodes being compares is lacking programid, and b) you have the dup matching matching on only current recordings |
| [02:26:10] | Beirdo: | GreyFoxx: #4517... seems to be yours. |
| [02:26:13] | sphery: | Beirdo: we probably should... seemed to get a lot of users involved and a lot of bugs squashed |
| [02:26:18] | ajisen: | GWG, mmm... its my wint hvr1300 that brings me here :) |
| [02:26:47] | kormoc: | Beirdo, we're watching you squash bugs right now! |
| [02:26:48] | wagnerrp: | ive debated making recorded and recordedprogram more interconnected |
| [02:27:08] | wagnerrp: | but to be honest, i dont think its worth the effort when the whole thing is going to be rewritten... one of these days |
| [02:27:17] | ajisen: | so I am looking to see if somebody can help me out in here |
| [02:27:23] | ajisen: | I have read and search through countless docs |
| [02:27:26] | rhollan (rhollan!~rene@firewall.hollan.org) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [02:27:51] | sphery: | woah, svn is my friend, again |
| [02:28:01] | kormoc: | ajisen, really? google can count really really high these days |
| [02:28:12] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Ajisen, I've never used one myself, alas. |
| [02:28:15] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Or I'd try to help |
| [02:28:37] | sphery: | amazing how much better svn is when you don't have to wait 20s every time you execute a command |
| [02:28:50] | ajisen: | I will be glad to receive any tips/tricks |
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| [02:28:55] | ajisen: | so here it goes |
| [02:29:05] | ajisen: | I got digital channels scanned |
| [02:29:12] | kormoc: | sphery, yeah, I'm sure, if I was you, I would have setup persistent ssh connections a long time ago |
| [02:29:29] | ajisen: | mplayer can pick up the channels.conf file and play audio/video |
| [02:29:42] | ajisen: | I have done my basic checks and test the card |
| [02:29:45] | wagnerrp: | mythtv does not use a channels.conf |
| [02:29:49] | wagnerrp: | it has its own internal scanner |
| [02:29:49] | ajisen: | its all workgin well |
| [02:29:58] | ajisen: | right I understand that |
| [02:30:11] | ajisen: | I am trying to import the channels to mythtv |
| [02:30:19] | sphery: | kormoc: heh, I was just doing all work except commits in an http working copy |
| [02:30:37] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Ajisen, digital channels I can help with |
| [02:30:41] | sphery: | and since I haven't been very productive for the last couple months, it wasn't too bad :) |
| [02:30:46] | ajisen: | wagnerrp: even the internal scan is timing out |
| [02:30:55] | ajisen: | I have set timeout to max with no luck |
| [02:31:02] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Timing out how? |
| [02:31:07] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | On all channels? |
| [02:31:11] | ajisen: | timeout with no signal |
| [02:31:15] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Are you sure you set the Frequency and such right? |
| [02:31:31] | ajisen: | yeap! scandvb picked up on the same freq |
| [02:31:53] | wagnerrp: | what version mythtv are you running? |
| [02:31:54] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Same channel or frequency? |
| [02:32:23] | ajisen: | same frequency picked up multiple channels, if that waht you meant |
| [02:33:24] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Is this broadcast or cable? |
| [02:33:54] | ajisen: | my version is mythtv-0.23–5.fc11.x86_64 |
| [02:34:11] | ajisen: | GWG this is broadcast DVB-T |
| [02:34:19] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Hmm... |
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| [02:34:35] | ajisen: | only scandvb works for me |
| [02:34:42] | ajisen: | even w_scan does not pick up any channels |
| [02:35:09] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Not sure what to tell you. The only thing that occurred is that you were using the wrong profile. but... |
| [02:35:27] | ajisen: | GWG you could be right |
| [02:35:36] | ajisen: | i looked at the backend log |
| [02:35:45] | ajisen: | I tailed the mysql query |
| [02:36:27] | ajisen: | nothing seems right there either |
| [02:37:08] | ajisen: | alternately I have a pvr-150 |
| [02:37:15] | ajisen: | which works like a charm on analogue |
| [02:37:42] | ajisen: | I decided to go digital and I am hitting a dead end here |
| [02:38:17] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | You still can import a channels.conf I think. But it is not an ideal solution |
| [02:38:26] | kormoc: | doesn't matter |
| [02:38:36] | kormoc: | if the scanner doesn't work, forcing it won't work |
| [02:38:53] | ajisen: | i tried the import method too |
| [02:38:59] | ajisen: | nothing works |
| [02:39:12] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I wish I had a brilliant idea. |
| [02:39:49] | ajisen: | I also tried the transport method |
| [02:40:00] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | That one I've never used |
| [02:40:01] | ajisen: | with no luck |
| [02:41:03] | ajisen: | I will now have to go and try manually inserting the channel/dtv_multiplex data |
| [02:41:12] | ajisen: | but unless I have the details I can't do much |
| [02:41:46] | kormoc: | ajisen, you never answered wagnerrp's question of which myth version you are using |
| [02:41:57] | wagnerrp: | yes he did |
| [02:42:10] | ajisen: | :) |
| [02:42:10] | kormoc: | whoops |
| [02:42:12] | wagnerrp: | 0.23 on FC11 |
| [02:42:45] | ajisen: | my last resort I build the latest firmware for wintv hvr1300 |
| [02:45:45] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | 11 has reached EOL. |
| [02:45:51] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Support is discontinued. |
| [02:46:00] | ajisen: | GWG, yes |
| [02:46:08] | ajisen: | but I am hesitant to upgrade |
| [02:46:15] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | why? |
| [02:46:49] | wagnerrp: | probably pulseaudio |
| [02:46:59] | ajisen: | its been very stable for me lately |
| [02:47:07] | ajisen: | i have zoneminder running |
| [02:48:02] | ajisen: | but I did try fc13 installation on spare disk |
| [02:48:06] | ajisen: | its been the same story |
| [02:48:16] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Ajisen, I've partitioned to make it much easier to upgrade in place. |
| [02:48:32] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Wagnerrp, does anyone really like Pulseaudio? |
| [02:48:41] | ajisen: | oh my /home is raid1 |
| [02:48:54] | ajisen: | so I never have to worry about that when I reinstall or upgrade |
| [02:48:56] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I retired my RAID1 |
| [02:48:59] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | It was overbuilt |
| [02:49:25] | ajisen: | i have a lot of Nikon RAW files |
| [02:49:39] | ajisen: | which are important for me to keep |
| [02:50:03] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Ajisen, I retired the RAID1 and I'm migrating my data to Amazon S3 sync. |
| [02:50:44] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I've been working on the redesign of the file structure to distinguish between archival and frequently used stuff for that. |
| [02:51:05] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | And there was no point in RAIDing the MythTV recordings. I can't afford that kind of space. |
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| [02:51:53] | ajisen: | its not the recording that I am worried about |
| [02:51:59] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Yes. |
| [02:52:03] | ajisen: | its the nikon raw thats is important for me |
| [02:52:04] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | You want the nikon RAW files. |
| [02:52:21] | kormoc: | mirroring with just two disks isn't much better then no mirror at all |
| [02:52:21] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But do you distinguish between archival and working files? |
| [02:52:38] | ajisen: | no I dont |
| [02:53:26] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | After years of running a RAID, I decided that if I'm not touching the file regularly, it doesn't need a constantly running backup. Better to dump the backup to disc, another copy to Amazon S3 and do redundant storage that way |
| [02:53:36] | Beirdo: | mirroring with 2 disks is a heck of a lot better than no mirror... if only one drive dies at a time |
| [02:53:37] | kormoc: | 2 disk raid-1 and raid 5 only protect against drive failures, not bit rot |
| [02:53:40] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [02:53:52] | kormoc: | Beirdo, nah, bitrot is just as bad/worse imho |
| [02:53:55] | ajisen: | i belief it raid1 |
| [02:54:00] | ajisen: | personal opinion |
| [02:54:06] | kormoc: | belief? |
| [02:54:07] | ajisen: | I don't worry about data backup at all |
| [02:54:11] | Beirdo: | kormoc: yeah, there is that, I guess |
| [02:54:20] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Ajisen, I was expressing my opinion based on my recent reconsideration of the issue. |
| [02:54:26] | kormoc: | having the files there but being silently corrupted is bad imho |
| [02:54:30] | ajisen: | GWG I hear you :) |
| [02:54:33] | Beirdo: | yeah, for sure |
| [02:55:17] | ajisen: | if FC13 can solve the problem for me |
| [02:55:19] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Ajisen, a lot to do to accomplish that. |
| [02:55:22] | ajisen: | why not! I would upgrade |
| [02:55:30] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Ajisen, it won't solve the MythTV problem, necessarily. |
| [02:55:36] | ajisen: | that right |
| [02:55:43] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But using an EOL distro is not secure |
| [02:55:44] | ajisen: | so if I have to still dig around and troubleshoot |
| [02:56:01] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Maybe rebuilding will help in an unanticipated way though. |
| [02:56:06] | ajisen: | GWG you have point |
| [02:56:09] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | IE reset something |
| [02:56:24] | Beirdo: | IE sucks |
| [02:56:37] | ajisen: | i will probably go back to tinkering again on FC13 |
| [02:56:50] | ajisen: | boot that disk up and figure things out again the hard way :) |
| [02:56:54] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I know the manual is against it, but I sometimes dump the config data and only reimport the scheduling and watched program data. |
| [02:57:01] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | And reset all the settings. |
| [02:57:08] | ** wagnerrp is still anxiously awaiting a response from bobnvic ** | |
| [02:57:19] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Beirdo, IE – for example |
| [02:57:20] | larzen (larzen!~Greg_Fleu@S010600188b390af1.cg.shawcable.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [02:57:32] | Beirdo: | IE = Internet Explorer. |
| [02:57:40] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Not the IE I was referring to |
| [02:57:42] | Beirdo: | i.e. = as in. |
| [02:57:44] | ajisen: | IE= that is |
| [02:57:51] | Beirdo: | e.g. = for example |
| [02:58:02] | larzen: | Folks... does anyone know where I would go with some basic video capture development questions? |
| [02:58:12] | Beirdo: | IE in caps is not the same as i.e. :) |
| [02:58:20] | kormoc: | larzen, #linuxtv |
| [02:58:27] | larzen: | thankx! |
| [02:59:06] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Beirdo, you are correct. I always mix up i.e. and e.g. |
| [02:59:34] | ajisen: | but we understood what he meant :) |
| [02:59:56] | ajisen: | btw! hvr1300 analogue sucks |
| [03:00:05] | ajisen: | no audio |
| [03:00:10] | Beirdo: | yeah, I just felt like being a pedantic old fart |
| [03:00:48] | ajisen: | so I don't want to go back to using another analogue tuner when I have pvr-150 |
| [03:02:17] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I should know better |
| [03:02:20] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I have a teaching license |
| [03:02:34] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | If I ever used it, I might set a bad example for the kids. |
| [03:02:51] | sphery: | oops, 2.8GHz |
| [03:03:13] | ** sphery is confusing his 240 and 250 ** | |
| [03:04:46] | Beirdo: | GadgetWisdomGuru: not to worry. My dad woulda chewed me out for an hour likely... He's a retired languages teacher :) |
| [03:05:03] | Beirdo: | I do things wrong specifically to set him off at times :) |
| [03:05:24] | kormoc: | Beirdo, tis is how the world works |
| [03:05:29] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Beirdo, I'm the son of an elementary school teacher and a high school physics teacher |
| [03:05:56] | Beirdo: | it's always fun to give family a wee bit of a hard time at times |
| [03:06:02] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I do. |
| [03:06:14] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | But how do you piss off a physics teacher? |
| [03:06:19] | Beirdo: | It'd be like telling kormoc just how cool Windows is :) |
| [03:06:20] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [03:06:21] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I know how to piss him off as just a father. |
| [03:06:32] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Of course, my parents are both retired now |
| [03:06:35] | wagnerrp: | start talking about centrifugal forces |
| [03:06:55] | Beirdo: | you'd have to make incorrect statements about physics that you know better than :) |
| [03:07:30] | Beirdo: | go ccache |
| [03:07:30] | wagnerrp: | you know how to alienate a physics teacher? |
| [03:07:49] | wagnerrp: | show him the coordinate transforms that prove that centrifugal forces are real |
| [03:07:50] | Beirdo: | tell them science is a waste of time? |
| [03:08:27] | kormoc: | there's a million ways to piss of physic folks covered in xkcd |
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| [03:08:44] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I usually just talk to him about Linux |
| [03:08:47] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | That annoys him enough |
| [03:08:53] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [03:09:05] | rhollan (rhollan!~rene@firewall.hollan.org) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [03:09:08] | kormoc: | is he a string or bang guy? |
| [03:10:30] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | He was a physics teacher, not a quantum physics teacher. |
| [03:10:43] | kormoc: | I'm sure he has an opinion |
| [03:10:45] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Besides, his masters is in medical biology |
| [03:10:54] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I'll be sure to ask him |
| [03:11:05] | kormoc: | I'm not a physics guy at all and I'm fully in favor of the mwave string theory, it makes complete sense to me |
| [03:11:23] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Got proof? |
| [03:11:30] | ** kormoc laughs ** | |
| [03:11:50] | kormoc: | I can't do basic calc, there's no way I could write up any proof |
| [03:11:56] | sphery: | m-theory is trying too hard--there's a much simpler solution |
| [03:11:57] | wagnerrp: | which brane is your favorite? |
| [03:12:06] | wagnerrp: | i like the blue one |
| [03:12:35] | kormoc: | sphery, actually, mwave is a pretty simple solution :) |
| [03:12:38] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [03:12:44] | ajisen: | alright folks! I gotta get back to work now |
| [03:12:44] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, heh, blue is nice... |
| [03:12:46] | Beirdo: | beer is the solution |
| [03:13:06] | sphery: | kormoc: I have discovered a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition that this IRC window is too narrow to contain. |
| [03:13:11] | ajisen: | I will comeby again if things works or don't on FC13 |
| [03:13:42] | sphery: | now I just have to die and then I'll leave you all wondering for hundreds of years |
| [03:14:00] | sphery: | sphery's Last Theorem |
| [03:14:02] | kormoc: | Hehe |
| [03:14:07] | Beirdo: | sphery: we'll get hammered and forget all bout it |
| [03:14:11] | sphery: | heh |
| [03:14:13] | kormoc: | I doubt I have hundreds of years left to wonder on it tho |
| [03:14:20] | sphery: | but Beirdo's log /never/ forgets! |
| [03:14:27] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [03:14:38] | sphery: | your log is the margin of my notebook |
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| [03:15:37] | [R] ([R]!~rbox@unaffiliated/rbox) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [03:16:25] | Beirdo: | yahoo nat? |
| [03:16:31] | Beirdo: | interesting |
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| [03:33:58] | Beirdo: | 2010-07–20 20:33:31.189 SSDPExtension::GetDeviceDesc – Host=192.168.1.5 Port=6544 UserAgent=Linux/2.6.18-lttng-0.6.41, UPnP/1.0 DIRECTV JHUPnP/1.0 |
| [03:34:01] | Beirdo: | 2010-07–20 20:33:31.189 SSDPExtension::GetDeviceDesc – Host=192.168.1.5 Port=6544 UserAgent=SEC_HHP_TV-32C550/1.0 |
| [03:34:10] | Beirdo: | interesting |
| [03:34:19] | Beirdo: | seems that logging is already there :) |
| [03:34:32] | Beirdo: | and it seems my HD receiver had UPnP in it |
| [03:34:39] | Beirdo: | and is running Linux |
| [03:38:01] | Beirdo: | the second is my TV |
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| [03:39:37] | Beirdo: | ooooooh |
| [03:39:43] | Beirdo: | 0 byte recording? |
| [03:40:16] | [R]: | i need a cheap upnp device |
| [03:40:24] | [R]: | but i dont know how much i'mn really willing to spend |
| [03:40:40] | Beirdo: | heh, my TV has one built in |
| [03:41:01] | [R]: | do they make smallish tvs with it? |
| [03:41:05] | [R]: | like 30" or so? |
| [03:41:12] | Beirdo: | mine's a 32" |
| [03:41:16] | Beirdo: | so yeah |
| [03:41:29] | [R]: | mmm |
| [03:41:32] | [R]: | what do you have? |
| [03:41:40] | Beirdo: | Samsung 32C550 |
| [03:42:03] | tank-man (tank-man!1000@S010600121729c6a1.vc.shawcable.net) has quit (Quit: :q!) | |
| [03:42:05] | Beirdo: | and an HDPVR that seems to need a powercycle |
| [03:42:06] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [03:42:18] | [R]: | i never have problems with my hdpvr anymore |
| [03:42:22] | [R]: | it works flawlessly |
| [03:43:11] | Beirdo: | well, I'm assuming that's why I have 4 0-byte recordings today |
| [03:43:36] | larzen: | looks like linuxtv is zombied =) |
| [03:43:49] | larzen: | anyone here have any experience with programming video capture devices? |
| [03:45:12] | wagnerrp: | programming? as in driver programming? |
| [03:46:25] | Beirdo: | maybe we have, maybe not... why? |
| [03:48:03] | Beirdo: | ahhh. metaquestion |
| [03:48:17] | [R]: | Beirdo: all the tvs at the best buys with ethernet are $$$ |
| [03:48:25] | Beirdo: | ? |
| [03:48:48] | wagnerrp: | theyre all... wavy like... |
| [03:48:48] | Beirdo: | well, I guess it depends on your budget, etc |
| [03:49:09] | Beirdo: | and I wouldn't buy from Worst Buy anyways |
| [03:49:56] | larzen: | wagnerrp: not driver. Just a little binary that records a stream from /dev/video0 directly to a file |
| [03:50:13] | larzen: | cat /dev/video0 > test.mpg This is what I need my binary to do. |
| [03:50:23] | larzen (larzen!~Greg_Fleu@S010600188b390af1.cg.shawcable.net) has left #mythtv-users () | |
| [03:50:30] | [R]: | larzen: you need a whoole program just to run cat? |
| [03:50:37] | larzen (larzen!~Greg_Fleu@S010600188b390af1.cg.shawcable.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [03:50:44] | Beirdo: | why do you need a binary? /bin/cat |
| [03:50:46] | Beirdo: | done |
| [03:50:47] | wagnerrp: | you need a proper card to do that |
| [03:50:56] | larzen: | wagnerrp: I have a PVR-150 |
| [03:50:59] | wagnerrp: | take your current framegrabber |
| [03:51:05] | wagnerrp: | take it out to a field |
| [03:51:08] | wagnerrp: | smash it up a bit |
| [03:51:12] | wagnerrp: | play some rap music |
| [03:51:16] | [R]: | haha |
| [03:51:18] | [R]: | wagnerrp++ |
| [03:51:21] | wagnerrp: | have some friends around to pull you off of it |
| [03:51:23] | Beirdo: | larzen: so... why do you need a binary? |
| [03:51:51] | larzen: | Beirdo: well I need to write the source to do it so that I can create a basic mono (c#) interface for it. |
| [03:52:09] | Beirdo: | why? |
| [03:52:16] | wagnerrp: | you want to program in c#? in linux? |
| [03:52:17] | [R]: | because C# is the awesomeness |
| [03:52:29] | larzen: | so I am looking for any examples that perhaps use ioctl and the sequence of events that need to happen |
| [03:52:38] | Beirdo: | you are creating a "need" that doesn't exist, it seems |
| [03:52:41] | larzen: | wagnerrp: yes – just a little open source project nothing more. |
| [03:52:55] | wagnerrp: | so why use c#? |
| [03:52:56] | Beirdo: | open, read, close |
| [03:53:04] | MaverickTech (MaverickTech!~MaverickT@smarti.lnk.telstra.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [03:53:07] | Beirdo: | oh, and write |
| [03:53:09] | larzen: | Beirdo: have you seen any c/c++ examples? |
| [03:53:12] | wagnerrp: | yeah, any (decent) language should be able to read data in from a file |
| [03:53:20] | Beirdo: | you don't need any examples! |
| [03:53:21] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [03:53:28] | Beirdo: | open /dev/video |
| [03:53:37] | Beirdo: | loop while data, read block of data |
| [03:53:38] | wagnerrp: | c, c++, perl, python, lisp, haskell, whatever_language_you_want |
| [03:53:40] | Beirdo: | open file |
| [03:53:45] | larzen: | Beirdo: no kidding =) |
| [03:53:49] | Beirdo: | write blocks of data to it |
| [03:53:56] | Beirdo: | close em both when done |
| [03:53:59] | [R]: | Beirdo: that program woudln't work |
| [03:54:06] | Beirdo: | sure it would |
| [03:54:07] | [R]: | Beirdo: you'll infintely loop |
| [03:54:13] | Beirdo: | that's the point |
| [03:54:16] | kormoc: | larzen, you might be better served in #c if you want a example written for you |
| [03:54:21] | [R]: | but you open the file after the loop... |
| [03:54:23] | Beirdo: | until you hit Ctrl-C |
| [03:54:24] | kormoc: | [R], it works as intended! |
| [03:54:27] | Beirdo: | yeah yeah |
| [03:54:35] | [R]: | kormoc: haha |
| [03:54:37] | larzen: | oh that's perfect then!! |
| [03:54:44] | Beirdo: | I was doing it as a basic example that the user can tweak |
| [03:54:45] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [03:55:10] | larzen: | ok let me try this with just generic c first... |
| [03:55:15] | larzen: | shoudl take but a few min. |
| [03:55:22] | Beirdo: | obviously ya open input and output first, then loop with read->write |
| [03:55:37] | kormoc: | <?php $fp = fopen('/dev/video0', 'r'); while (!feof($fp)) echo fgets($fp); |
| [03:55:43] | [R]: | if you want ctrl c to stop, then you probably need a sig handler |
| [03:55:51] | Beirdo: | no you don't |
| [03:55:53] | Beirdo: | not in C |
| [03:55:59] | [R]: | kormoc: sweet... i'm not the only masochist that uses php for shell scripts? |
| [03:56:06] | kormoc: | [R], not at all |
| [03:56:10] | Beirdo: | Ctrl-C will send it SIGINT... which kills the program with no handler |
| [03:56:16] | Beirdo: | which closes the open files |
| [03:56:17] | [R]: | but you should clean up |
| [03:56:23] | kormoc: | [R], the os will |
| [03:56:36] | [R]: | clean up the handles... but what if you wanted to clean up other stuff |
| [03:56:59] | Beirdo: | then you can go ahead and do so |
| [03:57:00] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [03:57:04] | Beirdo: | I don't care |
| [03:57:12] | Beirdo: | cat /dev/video0 > file |
| [03:57:16] | Beirdo: | works great |
| [03:57:46] | kormoc: | <?php system('cat /dev/video0 > file'); |
| [03:57:56] | [R]: | HAHA |
| [03:57:57] | Beirdo: | heeh |
| [03:58:05] | [R]: | kormoc: is the ?> optional? |
| [03:58:13] | kormoc: | int main(void) { system('cat /dev/video0 > file'); return; } |
| [03:58:23] | Beirdo: | heheh |
| [03:58:23] | kormoc: | [R], yes, and it's best practice to leave it off |
| [03:58:30] | [R]: | kormoc: really? |
| [03:58:32] | wagnerrp: | [R]: sure, it runs forward until it hits an error |
| [03:58:44] | wagnerrp: | if it errors at the end of the file, no one cares |
| [03:59:04] | kormoc: | [R], any white space after the ?> will get sent out which can break headers being sent to the client and is a major pita to track down |
| [03:59:38] | [R]: | oh... makes sense |
| [03:59:49] | [R]: | but i'm super anal about trailing white space |
| [04:00:07] | kormoc: | as am I, but others aren't, hence the 'rule' |
| [04:00:19] | [R]: | i always do "/ $" in vim |
| [04:00:26] | kormoc: | domain tools paid me at least 5k to trace down three new lines once |
| [04:00:35] | [R]: | thats pretty sweet |
| [04:00:40] | kormoc: | not for them :P |
| [04:00:47] | [R]: | lol |
| [04:00:52] | kormoc: | all cause someone left in some whitespace in some files somewhere |
| [04:01:14] | Beirdo: | kormoc: were the files called blah-jobsecurity.php? |
| [04:01:22] | kormoc: | Beirdo, heh, sadly not |
| [04:01:37] | Beirdo: | dang, woulda been easier to find |
| [04:02:08] | Big_D_271 (Big_D_271!~darren@cpe-24-94-94-133.hawaii.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [04:02:21] | Big_D_271: | anyone know if I can use my PVR-350 in Mythbuntu? I used to use on a Knoppmyth R5.5 box using the TV out feature of the card. I would like to run Mythbuntu so that I can also do Boxee. Please Help |
| [04:02:53] | wagnerrp: | doesnt boxee require opengl? or is that only xbmc? |
| [04:02:55] | [R]: | tv out was removed from myth a while ago |
| [04:03:05] | [R]: | otherwise, myth works with wahtever linuxtv supports |
| [04:03:27] | wagnerrp: | you can capture off a PVR-350, you dont want to output through a PVR-350 |
| [04:03:44] | kormoc: | there's a generic x driver for pvr-350 output, but boxee will not like it |
| [04:03:55] | Big_D_271: | what is the best AGP. or PCI card to use for tv out? |
| [04:04:00] | Big_D_271: | Nvidia? |
| [04:04:00] | [R]: | does anyone here have epix and/or used epixhd.com? |
| [04:04:09] | kormoc: | larzen, cat source code fyi, http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/cat.c |
| [04:04:10] | wagnerrp: | nvidia, the newer, the better |
| [04:04:26] | Beirdo: | Big_D_271: AGP!? |
| [04:04:26] | kormoc: | AGP... PCI... I always forget such tech still exists |
| [04:04:40] | Beirdo: | PCI – nvidia 9500GT |
| [04:04:41] | Big_D_271: | lol.. yeah.. it's an older machine. |
| [04:04:48] | Beirdo: | AGP, good luck |
| [04:04:57] | Big_D_271: | yeah.. thanks Beirdo |
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| [04:05:11] | Beirdo: | they aren't easy to find, but possible :) |
| [04:05:17] | Big_D_271: | i'll have a look around.. looks like if I want Boxee, I need a better card to tV out |
| [04:05:47] | wagnerrp: | PCI will only work if you are using content that can do VDPAU |
| [04:05:51] | Beirdo: | OK, myth is recording again |
| [04:05:58] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: hence the 9500GT :) |
| [04:06:06] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: content, not card |
| [04:06:21] | wagnerrp: | if the content isnt supported by VDPAU, youre going to be sending raw video |
| [04:06:25] | Beirdo: | yeah, but without the card, the content would be irrelevant :) |
| [04:06:33] | Beirdo: | true |
| [04:06:42] | wagnerrp: | 720p over PCI is pushing it |
| [04:06:50] | kormoc: | Beirdo, do you know of a usb based power switch? |
| [04:06:50] | [R]: | but he said pvr350 |
| [04:06:51] | [R]: | so its sd |
| [04:06:54] | wagnerrp: | and probably impossible with a busmastering 350 |
| [04:07:00] | [R]: | kormoc: my dad made me one |
| [04:07:07] | [R]: | kormoc: with a 5v relay |
| [04:07:10] | Beirdo: | kormoc: umm, not that I know of, but that could be useful |
| [04:07:11] | Big_D_271: | yeah.. SD is all i'm doing |
| [04:07:12] | wagnerrp: | [R]: well he wants boxee for something |
| [04:07:17] | wagnerrp: | maybe hes pulling HD from elsewhere |
| [04:07:19] | Big_D_271: | can a PCI video card still hanle? |
| [04:07:31] | kormoc: | Beirdo, my hdpvr is locking up every day or so, it'd be useful to script powercycling it.... |
| [04:07:41] | Beirdo: | oh wow, nasty |
| [04:08:00] | Beirdo: | it shouldn't be too hard to slap one together, much like [R] was saying |
| [04:08:02] | [R]: | kormoc: my bakcned shuts down when its idle and when it turns off the usb power turns off, and trigger the relay |
| [04:08:09] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: serial control with a relay? |
| [04:08:24] | wagnerrp: | ah, yeah... hes suggesting the same thing |
| [04:08:27] | [R]: | kormoc: theres also instructions online for making a relay controlled by a parallel port |
| [04:08:52] | kormoc: | yeah, all I have are usb ports |
| [04:09:20] | [R]: | well controlling it is tricky... but if you jsut rely on the power on the port with on/off on the computer, it works perfect |
| [04:09:25] | Beirdo: | well, USB->Serial plus serial controlled relay, perhaps |
| [04:09:40] | [R]: | that would work too, but complicated |
| [04:10:00] | wagnerrp: | [R]: that only works if you dont enable wake-on-usb |
| [04:10:06] | [R]: | yeah |
| [04:10:09] | wagnerrp: | can you control the power per-port? |
| [04:10:09] | kormoc: | nah, I want to be able to have the computer power it around |
| [04:10:12] | [R]: | no |
| [04:10:12] | Beirdo: | or use an FTDI USB UART chip, but just use the GPIO out |
| [04:10:22] | [R]: | i was lucky that my board wasn't putting power on the usb |
| [04:10:31] | [R]: | but additionally i'm actually using a usb pci card |
| [04:11:13] | Beirdo: | I could potentially come up with a small design to do taht sorta thing |
| [04:11:36] | Beirdo: | I may end up requiring such fun too |
| [04:12:16] | Beirdo: | be nice to use the power cable from the HDPVR, and have a cable out to the HDPVR (power from the wall-wart) |
| [04:12:43] | Hilikus (Hilikus!~hilikus@unaffiliated/hilikus) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [04:12:57] | Hilikus: | hey guys |
| [04:13:23] | [R]: | i would kill for an hdpvr in pci form |
| [04:13:36] | Beirdo: | [R] I like mine in USB form |
| [04:13:57] | [R]: | but its so freakin flaky |
| [04:14:09] | Beirdo: | that's not because of it being USB, I bet |
| [04:14:10] | Big_D_271: | Beirdo any bid dif b/w 8 series and 9 nvidia if i'm only doing SD? |
| [04:14:11] | kormoc: | I doubt it's the usb part |
| [04:14:18] | Big_D_271: | *big sorry |
| [04:14:31] | [R]: | my dad always has lovely things to say about electronics designers |
| [04:14:40] | Beirdo: | Big_D_271: probably not that much. But try to get one that's capable of VDPAU to be sure :) |
| [04:14:52] | Hilikus: | when i go to upcoming recordings there's nothing |
| [04:14:56] | [R]: | he always says he would have gotten fired if he designed some of the crap that people make |
| [04:15:06] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [04:15:06] | [R]: | Hilikus: so set some rules |
| [04:15:07] | Hilikus: | a DB check says everything's fine |
| [04:15:26] | Hilikus: | if i go to recording schedules i still see all my rules |
| [04:15:46] | Hilikus: | and if i go to listings i see there are shows there that should be recorded |
| [04:15:46] | Beirdo: | kormoc: just need to switch on/off the one device, right? |
| [04:15:58] | kormoc: | Beirdo, aye |
| [04:16:07] | wagnerrp: | ive got one |
| [04:16:14] | Hilikus: | and if go to recording schedules and tell it to find showings of the show it finds them, but it just doesn't say they will be recorded |
| [04:16:19] | wagnerrp: | tear open an old CD/DVD drive |
| [04:16:19] | kormoc: | Hilikus, restart the backend? |
| [04:16:28] | wagnerrp: | tie some bare wire to the drive tray |
| [04:16:44] | Hilikus: | the backend seems fine, i can watch my old recordings |
| [04:16:48] | Hilikus: | but i'll try that |
| [04:16:50] | wagnerrp: | use the tray controls in linux to open and close the tray/circuit |
| [04:17:02] | Beirdo: | kormoc: I'll have to slap a circuit together, see what it would take to build using parts from digikey :) |
| [04:17:06] | [R]: | wagnerrp: open/close is momentary i would think |
| [04:17:30] | kormoc: | [R], he's saying to position it so when it's open it would hit the switch |
| [04:17:32] | wagnerrp: | open and close on a drive is a good two seconds |
| [04:17:37] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: I doubt kormoc wants to use arcing as his primary method of shut down |
| [04:17:46] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [04:17:46] | Hilikus: | oh, when i try to watch live tv it says. mythtv is using all inputs but there are no active recordings |
| [04:17:51] | [R]: | i guess if all you wanted to do was cycle the power |
| [04:17:52] | [R]: | that would work |
| [04:18:02] | Hilikus: | what can cause that? |
| [04:18:13] | wagnerrp: | no, im saying you cut the power line |
| [04:18:18] | wagnerrp: | and run bare wires inside the drive |
| [04:18:19] | Beirdo: | yeah :) |
| [04:18:20] | [R]: | Hilikus: are you tuners listed in the backend status page? |
| [04:18:32] | wagnerrp: | such that when the tray is closed, the circuit is closed |
| [04:18:48] | kormoc: | ha |
| [04:18:51] | Hilikus: | encoder status has nothing in it. is that it? |
| [04:18:52] | wagnerrp: | when the tray is open, the bare wires are no longer touching, and the HDPVR shuts down |
| [04:19:09] | kormoc: | yeah, not really gonna do that :P |
| [04:19:32] | Beirdo: | sounds like fun, but I'd pass |
| [04:19:59] | wagnerrp: | thats some burn-your-house-down kind of hacker genius inspiration right there |
| [04:20:06] | Hilikus: | damnit! |
| [04:20:06] | [R]: | well turning off the computer and cycling power on the hdpvr does work wonders... i can verify that |
| [04:20:22] | [R]: | i once had the ocmputer off... and the blue lights on the hdpvr were on |
| [04:20:25] | kormoc: | just power cycling fixes it (on the hdpvr) |
| [04:20:28] | Beirdo: | hmm, the FT232 devel board is $20 |
| [04:20:30] | [R]: | still not sure how that happened |
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| [04:20:51] | kormoc: | I unplugged the internal lights |
| [04:20:55] | Beirdo: | that's not too bad... just need a relay. |
| [04:20:57] | kormoc: | which also turned off the fan |
| [04:21:06] | kormoc: | which is why i think it's locking up, with the heat lately |
| [04:21:11] | Beirdo: | ahhh |
| [04:21:14] | [R]: | i'm too fraid to open mine up |
| [04:21:16] | [R]: | was it hard? |
| [04:21:22] | Beirdo: | I'm living with the blue ring of joy |
| [04:21:27] | [R]: | (thats what she said) |
| [04:21:32] | kormoc: | [R], not at all, remove 4 sticker pads, 4 screws, that's it |
| [04:21:34] | Beirdo: | it's going in the cabinet soon |
| [04:21:45] | [R]: | i keep mine in my closet |
| [04:21:52] | kormoc: | [R], the light/fan is a standard plug, so you can plug/unplug as you wish |
| [04:21:59] | [R]: | yeah, i saw pics online |
| [04:22:25] | Hilikus: | my problem started on the 15th. i still have tv listings from that date. is there any way to see watch shows i missed? |
| [04:22:34] | Hilikus: | what* |
| [04:23:38] | [R]: | why does my frontend say "The server uses network protocol version 23056, but this client only understands version 56."... did the way the number was created chnage? cuz i know there wasn't 23000 revisions |
| [04:23:38] | Hilikus: | like a retroactive sim scheduling? |
| [04:24:41] | wagnerrp: | [R]: upgrade the rest of your systems |
| [04:24:58] | [R]: | wagnerrp: i know, i'm in the process... the difference in the numbers is the question... not why im getting it |
| [04:25:02] | wagnerrp: | there was a protocol change in fixes |
| [04:25:16] | wagnerrp: | and rather than cause confusion with jumping protocols |
| [04:25:23] | wagnerrp: | the new one in fixes just got a massive bump |
| [04:25:27] | [R]: | ah |
| [04:25:51] | wagnerrp: | speaking of which |
| [04:26:16] | wagnerrp: | kormoc, Beirdo: for next time this happens, it was decided we start appending letters |
| [04:26:33] | wagnerrp: | if you want to take care of mythweb/perl and make sure they support strings |
| [04:26:48] | Beirdo: | ugh |
| [04:26:50] | wagnerrp: | when i checked in there a couple days ago, both of them were using integer values |
| [04:26:52] | Beirdo: | but why? |
| [04:27:13] | Beirdo: | if you must append SOMETHING... append .1, .2, etc |
| [04:27:19] | Beirdo: | make it floating point :) |
| [04:27:27] | wagnerrp: | well that wont work either |
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| [04:27:34] | wagnerrp: | (unless you do it as a string) |
| [04:27:52] | Beirdo: | why must we break things? |
| [04:27:53] | wagnerrp: | floating point doesnt support exact decimal values |
| [04:27:57] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, just wrap it in quotes and all is good in php land |
| [04:28:01] | Beirdo: | am I missing something? |
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| [04:28:36] | wagnerrp: | in python and C, 56.1 != 561/10 |
| [04:28:43] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [04:28:45] | wagnerrp: | dont know how perl/php handle floats |
| [04:28:46] | Beirdo: | fair enough |
| [04:28:52] | Beirdo: | ok ok |
| [04:29:03] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, loose and fast |
| [04:29:07] | Beirdo: | but what is wrong with our current scheme? |
| [04:29:12] | kormoc: | Beirdo, -fixes got a protocol bump |
| [04:29:20] | kormoc: | Beirdo, we don't want a -fixes connecting to a -trunk |
| [04:29:25] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: a couple years down the line, the next time -fixes gets a proto bump |
| [04:29:34] | Beirdo: | ahhh |
| [04:29:38] | wagnerrp: | we want to do a 74b, 74c, etc... |
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| [04:29:46] | [R]: | kormoc: why not just check the version string also? |
| [04:29:49] | Beirdo: | by then, we might be using a real protocol :) |
| [04:29:59] | wagnerrp: | maybe |
| [04:30:05] | Beirdo: | but cool |
| [04:30:08] | kormoc: | [R], that's way more work then adding '' to the php file |
| [04:30:14] | [R]: | HAHA |
| [04:30:16] | Beirdo: | be sure to put in a ticket for both, I guess |
| [04:30:19] | wagnerrp: | this is more of a 'whenever you get around to it' |
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| [04:30:34] | Beirdo: | we'll get to it eventually... like JUST as it's required :) |
| [04:30:44] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: yeah, the python change amounted to that, and changing a %d to a %s in one of the print statements |
| [04:31:00] | sphery: | Is there any reason mythlink.pl should force 755 permissions on dirs it creates? Wouldn't it make more sense to respect umask? |
| [04:31:12] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, [25389 |
| [04:31:19] | Beirdo: | sphery: it WOULD, yeah |
| [04:31:26] | sphery: | more sense? |
| [04:31:36] | Beirdo: | it would make more sense to use umask |
| [04:31:42] | sphery: | cool |
| [04:31:47] | kormoc: | users don't understand umask |
| [04:31:53] | sphery: | I'm too tired--confusing myself |
| [04:31:55] | kormoc: | even tho it's the user's mask |
| [04:32:04] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: you sure made quick work of that, thanks! |
| [04:32:05] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [04:32:15] | Beirdo: | well, defaulting to using 755 is great.... if the user doesn't override it |
| [04:32:31] | wagnerrp: | does the permissions on symlinks really matter? |
| [04:32:34] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, it was a tough battle! |
| [04:32:35] | Beirdo: | nope |
| [04:32:38] | sphery: | no, but mythlink.pl creates dirs |
| [04:32:46] | wagnerrp: | i mean you still cant access it unless you have access to the referenced file |
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| [04:32:55] | sphery: | symlinks are always 777 and pass through perms on the linked file |
| [04:33:05] | Hilikus: | so no reason to see what episodes would've been recorded in previous days if the listings are still there? |
| [04:33:22] | kormoc: | Hilikus, I wouldn't think so |
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| [04:33:36] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: I'll go take a look at the perl bindings... shouldn't be hard |
| [04:33:53] | Beirdo: | but if you could pop in a ticket so I don't forget it :) |
| [04:34:01] | sphery: | but I want to run mythlink.pl as my user and mythlink.pl --chanid %CHANID% --starttime %STARTTIME% as mythtv user, so I need to set perms to 775 |
| [04:34:11] | wagnerrp: | will do |
| [04:34:17] | Beirdo: | thanks :) |
| [04:34:17] | sphery: | or 770--key point being write on group perm |
| [04:34:18] | wagnerrp: | as mentioned, no rush, whenever you get around to it |
| [04:34:39] | Beirdo: | and it gives you something to slap me with later if I don't get to it soon |
| [04:35:09] | sphery: | so does that mean I shouldn't change it from hard-coded 755 to respecing umask? |
| [04:35:43] | kormoc: | sphery, they're symlinks, so just don't bother setting them at all |
| [04:35:48] | wagnerrp: | im just a messenger here |
| [04:35:48] | sphery: | for the paths |
| [04:35:49] | sphery: | the dirs |
| [04:35:56] | kormoc: | ooh |
| [04:36:03] | kormoc: | yeah, just use the defaults imho |
| [04:36:10] | sphery: | defaults meaning umask? |
| [04:36:14] | kormoc: | yeah |
| [04:36:16] | Beirdo: | it's the umask for the dir that's at question, and if I were you, I'd respect umask |
| [04:36:16] | sphery: | cool |
| [04:36:19] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [04:36:53] | sphery: | good.. I like that and it makes my life easier (no adding patches to mythlink.pl for my own install) |
| [04:37:00] | sphery: | thanks |
| [04:37:46] | rhollan (rhollan!~rene@firewall.hollan.org) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | |
| [04:37:48] | Beirdo: | no problemo |
| [04:40:32] | Beirdo: | blah. |
| [04:40:33] | sphery: | OK, how about a compromise on the side of security... |
| [04:40:45] | sphery: | 0775 but modified by umask |
| [04:40:47] | Beirdo: | do we really CARE if the regexp used is minimal or not? |
| [04:41:11] | sphery: | so with 0022, the dir is 0755 and with 0002 the dir is 0775 or with 0000 the dir is 0775 |
| [04:41:30] | sphery: | by "minimal" did he mean non-greedy? |
| [04:41:43] | ** wagnerrp wonders if sphery is being a bit too OCD with security with something mythtv is involved in ** | |
| [04:41:46] | Beirdo: | he intentionally changed my patch |
| [04:42:05] | Beirdo: | from ^http://.*?/ to ^http://.*/ |
| [04:42:22] | Beirdo: | and did setMinimal on it |
| [04:42:23] | Beirdo: | why? |
| [04:42:42] | wagnerrp: | of anyone can connect to the backend and delete whatever they want, do a couple symlinks matter? |
| [04:42:57] | sphery: | he's minimizing your efforts |
| [04:43:07] | sphery: | wagnerrp: heh, yeah |
| [04:43:20] | sphery: | could just do 0777 – umask |
| [04:44:55] | Beirdo: | ahhhh |
| [04:45:01] | Beirdo: | it's because Qt is stupid |
| [04:45:02] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [04:45:16] | Beirdo: | that's the equivalent... |
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| [04:45:42] | wagnerrp: | oh here we go again |
| [04:45:45] | sphery: | yeah, qt regex is ugly |
| [04:45:50] | wagnerrp: | BASH users futzing in the database |
| [04:45:56] | sphery: | yay |
| [04:46:20] | wagnerrp: | http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/general/12710 . . . thvideo.html |
| [04:46:29] | Beirdo: | qt is craptacular. |
| [04:46:34] | Beirdo: | haha |
| [04:46:47] | Beirdo: | tell the putzes to make tickets against nuvexport |
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| [04:49:35] | wagnerrp: | its not that i have problems with bash as a language |
| [04:49:59] | wagnerrp: | i just find something inherently wrong with bash scripts of over half the size of the python bindings |
| [04:50:23] | wagnerrp: | oh, and larger than the perl bindings, by the way Beirdo |
| [04:50:26] | wagnerrp: | better get cracking |
| [04:50:31] | wagnerrp: | the bash guy is beating you |
| [04:50:32] | wagnerrp: | :P |
| [04:50:37] | sphery: | I can't believe you didn't rewrite mythlink.pl in python, yet |
| [04:51:06] | Beirdo: | the bash guy can beat himself all he wants |
| [04:51:34] | wagnerrp: | got no reason to rewrite existing programs in a decent language |
| [04:51:43] | wagnerrp: | unless you were planning i would take up maintenance on it |
| [04:51:57] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [04:52:09] | Beirdo: | you aren't looking for needless challenges? |
| [04:53:46] | wagnerrp: | to be honest, most of the functionality is already in the bindings |
| [04:54:06] | wagnerrp: | it might take 40 lines, and a good portion of that would be command line handling |
| [04:56:34] | wagnerrp: | this thing isnt half bad |
| [04:56:51] | wagnerrp: | the mad basher seems to have worked up the basic shell of a set of bash bindings |
| [04:57:36] | wagnerrp: | tap into the TCP device to talk to the backend, and the transition will be complete |
| [05:00:12] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [05:00:17] | Beirdo: | netcat, here we come |
| [05:01:14] | wagnerrp: | is netcat bidirectional? |
| [05:02:22] | sphery: | so he basically did the bash IRC client thing? |
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| [05:02:33] | wagnerrp: | no, theres no backend protocol support |
| [05:02:51] | sphery: | oh, he didn't, yet |
| [05:03:00] | wagnerrp: | but he has macro'd access to the database |
| [05:03:07] | wagnerrp: | its actually fairly clean |
| [05:03:34] | sphery: | http://alge.anart.no/linux/scripts/bairc-1.3.bash |
| [05:03:34] | wagnerrp: | ... as clean as you can be when youre opening a new mysql process and connection to mysqld for each query |
| [05:03:42] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [05:04:14] | sphery: | wouldn't it be more efficient to just run a single external process and grab all the data at once |
| [05:04:19] | wagnerrp: | the first person i see who opens a persistent pipe to use a sustained connection to mysql and thats it, game over, im done... |
| [05:04:21] | sphery: | like mysqldump |
| [05:04:34] | sphery: | then you can just use the data directly in bash after that |
| [05:05:36] | Beirdo: | OK, bug closed |
| [05:06:08] | sphery: | here Beirdo is wasting time fixing bugs while I'm just changing things that I want to change for myself |
| [05:06:18] | Beirdo: | I have a nice script I use to manage several branches in parallel in git :) |
| [05:07:06] | wagnerrp: | could be worse, im trying to figure out how^H^H^Hwhy someone wrote an XML parser in bash |
| [05:07:08] | sphery: | problem is that I have to wait 5min for my Athlon XP 2400+ backend to finish a mythlink.sh run so I can test the changes |
| [05:07:15] | sphery: | heh |
| [05:07:24] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [05:07:42] | ** Beirdo is watching last week's recordings ** | |
| [05:07:47] | sphery: | I'm guessing it's because there are so few XML parsers available and very limited support for XML parsing in other languages |
| [05:08:15] | wagnerrp: | must be, and as everyone knows, bash is designed for text processing |
| [05:08:19] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [05:08:20] | sphery: | ype |
| [05:08:24] | sphery: | yep, even |
| [05:09:13] | sphery: | I think the nerves going to my left hand are a little bit longer than the ones going to my right hand... these multi-hand words often end up out of order |
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| [05:09:48] | [R]: | haha |
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| [05:11:11] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: still around? |
| [05:11:50] | Beirdo: | hmmm, how many amps does the HDPVR pull, and at what voltage? |
| [05:13:11] | Beirdo: | 5V, 2A |
| [05:13:13] | Beirdo: | OK |
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| [05:14:11] | sphery: | heh, running 5x mythlink.pl --chanid --starttime on my Athlon XP 2400+ takes 1min 28s. Running 5x mythlink.pl (doing all links) takes about 5min |
| [05:14:13] | [R]: | frea,kin fox |
| [05:14:15] | [R]: | this is DEFINTELY not in hd |
| [05:14:34] | sphery: | starting to wonder if MythTV System Events is a bad idea for the little backend |
| [05:14:45] | sphery: | get 2 of those going at the same time... |
| [05:15:18] | wogri: | hi mythtv-users; I have searched the archives, but it seems I can't find what I'm looking for... is there a way to start live-tv watching directly from the command-line? |
| [05:15:42] | wagnerrp: | i think you can open directly to plugins, but not livetv |
| [05:15:51] | [R]: | livetv is evil |
| [05:15:54] | [R]: | i dont remember the last time i used it |
| [05:18:38] | sphery: | I think others have done so with a script that passes a jump command to the mythfrontend network interface |
| [05:18:59] | sphery: | but if what you want is Live TV, MythTV isn't what you should be using, IMHO |
| [05:19:28] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [05:19:31] | sphery: | wagnerrp: now I can't decide between 777 and 775... |
| [05:19:35] | Beirdo: | the command is mplayer :) |
| [05:19:42] | sphery: | that's definitely one of them |
| [05:21:27] | wagnerrp: | crap, the guy even implemented job control through process signals |
| [05:21:37] | wagnerrp: | ill give him this, the guy is through |
| [05:22:44] | Beirdo: | bash is fun |
| [05:22:49] | Beirdo: | but jeez |
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| [05:27:01] | sphery: | wagnerrp: now we just have to harness that motivation and redirect it toward a proper language |
| [05:28:25] | wagnerrp: | im going to give the guy some pointers |
| [05:28:40] | wagnerrp: | if you feed it jobid, no reason to give it chanid and starttime |
| [05:28:46] | wagnerrp: | and make sure to check schema revisions |
| [05:29:13] | wagnerrp: | but i cant think of a diplomatic way to suggest 'go back and try it in another language' |
| [05:30:18] | sphery: | heh, yeah |
| [05:30:24] | sphery: | especially with the size of it |
| [05:30:29] | Beirdo: | I dunno... how about "bash is teh suck!" |
| [05:30:51] | Beirdo: | tell him to redo it in tcsh |
| [05:30:52] | Beirdo: | hehe |
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| [05:31:39] | sphery: | hah |
| [05:31:47] | sphery: | Beirdo: you /wish/ :) |
| [05:32:02] | Beirdo: | oooh |
| [05:32:04] | Beirdo: | zsh |
| [05:32:06] | Beirdo: | or ksh |
| [05:32:09] | Beirdo: | there we go |
| [05:32:25] | sphery: | ash--so I can run it in busybox |
| [05:33:00] | Beirdo: | ash-... oh never mind |
| [05:33:19] | sphery: | though wish would be interesting |
| [05:33:31] | Beirdo: | tcl |
| [05:33:33] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [05:42:12] | sphery: | wagnerrp: I'm starting to wonder if Mr "Has anyone seen my database?" is using one of those broken distros with a network-initialization race condition (i.e. they start mythbackend before the network is initialized sometimes). Only problem with the theory is I can't explain how network could work for a bit and then stop (maybe because he's netbooting, so there's network, then the distro upstart resets network?) |
| [05:43:13] | wagnerrp: | no clue |
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| [06:08:53] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: the commflagger runs on your HDPVR content just fine, right? |
| [06:10:33] | Beirdo: | yup |
| [06:10:48] | Beirdo: | haven't seen issues yet... other than general slowness :) |
| [06:11:00] | wagnerrp: | ok, just confirming.... just told someone he was full of lies saying it didnt |
| [06:11:27] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [06:11:32] | Beirdo: | it works fine here |
| [06:11:40] | Beirdo: | I am on trunk, but whatever |
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| [06:19:52] | sphery: | "[mythtv-users] Backend consolidation, round 3." guy really needs to chill |
| [06:20:15] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [06:20:32] | sphery: | or maybe to switch to Windows MCE or SageTV or ... |
| [06:20:44] | sphery: | he doesn't seem to get that MythTV is a hobby, not a DVR |
| [06:20:49] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [06:21:15] | Beirdo: | awww. the user from #8678 is happy and appreciative :) |
| [06:21:52] | sphery: | yeah, nice to get good feedback for a change, isn't it? |
| [06:22:06] | Beirdo: | yeah :) |
| [06:22:59] | Beirdo: | hmmm, anyone have an HDPVR and a micrometer? |
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| [06:23:44] | Beirdo: | need to know the size of teh power jack :) |
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| [06:24:26] | Beirdo: | see, you're not the only one who does left/right hand syncopation, sphery :) |
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| [06:26:09] | wagnerrp: | oh, he does even check database schema version |
| [06:26:37] | Beirdo: | so much talent... wasted |
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| [06:30:53] | sphery: | Beirdo: heh, guess not |
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| [06:34:46] | wogri: | hi mythtv users; is there a way to start live-tv automatically instead of running the frontend? |
| [06:35:28] | [R]: | woah |
| [06:35:29] | [R]: | its like deja vu |
| [06:35:39] | Beirdo: | wogri: no |
| [06:35:48] | wogri: | or let's say is there a way to directly watch live tv in the frontend instead of having to use the keys to navigate... |
| [06:35:58] | wogri: | Beirdo: really, I can't believe this is a no :) |
| [06:36:17] | wagnerrp: | three devs, and one long time user gave you an answer you didnt like about an hour ago |
| [06:36:25] | wagnerrp: | its not likely that has changed in the mean time |
| [06:36:25] | [R]: | wogri: no one cares about livetv because myth is a dvr, not a tv watcher |
| [06:36:35] | wogri: | I see. |
| [06:36:39] | wogri: | hm. |
| [06:36:42] | wogri: | too bad :) |
| [06:36:48] | [R]: | wogri: you're more than welcome to submit a patch for it though |
| [06:36:54] | wogri: | thanks for the reply, I can at least stop searching for now. |
| [06:37:03] | wogri: | yeah, I might look into that, thanks a bunch. |
| [06:37:15] | [R]: | mythfrontend --livetv |
| [06:37:18] | [R]: | boom, 5 minutes |
| [06:37:31] | ** [R] ponders doing it just to be THAT evil ** | |
| [06:37:37] | ** [R] does the dr evil thing ** | |
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| [06:39:37] | Beirdo: | hmmm, someone's out smoking on their balcony |
| [06:39:47] | Beirdo: | bad person... should go get em evicted |
| [06:40:10] | [R]: | where else are they supposed to slowly kill their lungs? |
| [06:40:51] | wagnerrp: | agh... i have a nice list of suggestions for the guy |
| [06:41:00] | wagnerrp: | and i keep finding out that he has already implemented them |
| [06:41:24] | [R]: | wagnerrp: would a --livetv switch to frontend get committed yo uthink? |
| [06:41:41] | wagnerrp: | no |
| [06:41:42] | Beirdo: | not on the balcony here :) |
| [06:41:49] | wagnerrp: | but a --jumppoint switch probably would |
| [06:41:57] | Beirdo: | I should go light up a cigar... but I'd get caught |
| [06:42:02] | wagnerrp: | livetv being just one of many possible jumppoints |
| [06:42:03] | [R]: | wagnerrp: i like your thinking |
| [06:46:37] | rhollan: | join #freeradius |
| [06:46:46] | Beirdo: | no thanks |
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| [07:18:08] | ** rhollan can't get his WPA/Enterprise auth working.. GGG ** | |
| [07:18:10] | rhollan: | GRRR |
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| [08:10:41] | justinh: | iamlindoro: nice reply on the ML re the A-Team guy |
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| [08:17:42] | justinh: | heh. "MythTV upstream project is becoming disfunctional". whatever that means |
| [08:18:50] | justinh: | ah just whining about the protocol ver change as if the decision was taken lightly |
| [08:19:33] | justinh: | yada yada yada MUST start cleaning up their act if they want to be included in ubuntu distros, blah |
| [08:19:58] | justinh: | yeah? well one thing matey – if you were still running the OFFICIAL ubuntu mythtv packages there'd be no protocol version change |
| [08:21:51] | justinh: | oh nice. he's also setup so you have to be logged in to make a comment. way to go whiny boy |
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| [10:48:34] | justinh: | I found the original thread. classic http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1535465 |
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| [10:55:52] | oobe: | at first glance i thought they changed the version protocol number to a svn build revision number |
| [10:55:59] | oobe: | 23056 |
| [10:56:05] | oobe: | looks like it a bit |
| [10:57:08] | justinh: | people go on as if developers do this kind of stuff just to nark users |
| [10:59:00] | oobe: | well that makes sense too |
| [10:59:10] | oobe: | I mean do they really want us to be happy |
| [10:59:13] | oobe: | really |
| [11:00:05] | justinh: | ranting about bad design decisions & crap. Like no other software developer decided to go one way in the past & then subsequent contributors find that decision limits capacities somehow.. do they sit down & rewrite the whole thing the 'proper' way or just – because they're not experts or they're somehow 'lazy' just get it to work? muh muh muh |
| [11:01:12] | justinh: | these 'meh, I can draw diagrams' people get on my bits |
| [11:01:59] | justinh: | backseat drivers FTL |
| [11:03:38] | oobe: | lol |
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| [11:31:24] | benny_: | [off-topic] — bored writing documentation at work |
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| [12:19:10] | justinh: | wonder what the protocol bump was for anyway... time to go looksee |
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| [12:24:39] | justinh: | freeview to broadcast sky sports. GRRR. if it's pay TV it's not Freeview |
| [12:27:24] | justinh: | and in other news, Cillit Bang manufacturer buys Durex |
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| [12:41:26] | AndyCap: | Reckitt Benckiser? |
| [12:42:15] | justinh: | yup |
| [12:42:30] | hopper75: | I'm working on getting DVDs playing on a F13 machine. Added libdvdcss based on what I'd read. Looking for tips/suggestions/docs to finish the job. |
| [12:43:02] | justinh: | ruh? |
| [12:43:32] | justinh: | what does that have to do with mythtv exactly then? |
| [12:43:42] | hopper75: | I get this when I try and play DVDs in MythTV: Error reading block from DVD: Error reading NAV packet. |
| [12:44:59] | justinh: | ahh |
| [12:45:10] | justinh: | so yeah you likely just needed to install the css thingy |
| [12:46:19] | hopper75: | yeah, I grabbed the source, installed it. Still getting the error so I think there's something extra I need to do to tell MythTV to use it. I didn't see anything obvious in the frontend set up. Hoping someone can point me in the right direction. |
| [12:46:36] | justinh: | f13 doesn't have a binary of it anywhere? eew |
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| [12:47:20] | hopper75: | There's an extra repository that can provide it. I wanted to try the source first and avoid yet another repository. (default + rpmfusion already). |
| [12:47:40] | hopper75: | My machine is still stable, but I don't want to push my luck too hard. :-) |
| [12:47:49] | justinh: | maybe you need to ldconfig |
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| [12:48:11] | hopper75: | Hmm, I have it in /usr/local/lib and ldconfig already looks there. I'll double check just to be sure. |
| [12:48:53] | justinh: | fwiw I think it's prolly not a bad idea avoiding mixing repos as much as you can. I've heard about that 'dependency hell |
| [12:50:13] | hopper75: | whoohoo! Turned out I hadn't added a setting for ldconfig on this box. That's all it was. Thanks very much! |
| [12:50:44] | hopper75: | Now I can avoid sticky greasy finger prints on the kids dvds.... this is a BIG deal. :) |
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| [12:51:46] | hopper75: | Very glad I didn't have to add the extra repository. rpmfusion is all that's needed (+ libdvdcss from source). |
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| [13:44:57] | justinh: | oo that's not nice. I have a friend who is blind, and also a fan of apple. apple techies advising re-installing the OS to make itunes sync an iphone? :-O |
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| [13:47:56] | AndyCap: | hopper75: you know. extra repos aren't the problem. Bad repos are. |
| [13:48:27] | AndyCap: | hopper75: and livna only has one package now, libdvdcss, since some rpmfusion contributors didn't want to touch it |
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| [14:37:58] | jams: | look at that, sphery is targetting another setting that I happen to use. |
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| [15:19:09] | chris_jg: | wagnerrp: I should have persists on my veto powers |
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| [15:25:13] | wagnerrp: | the committee of chris... :) |
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| [15:33:19] | larzen1: | folks.. I've asked some questions about IVTV-enabled cards yesterday and after some reading and running v4l2 source samples, I am finding that they are indeed quite differet from other cards.. |
| [15:33:47] | wagnerrp: | when mythtv records off an IVTV mpeg encoder card, it reads the mpeg2 stream directly |
| [15:33:53] | larzen1: | One user here suggested to open a ifstream/ofstream to copy from /dev/video0 directly into an mpeg fiel (i.e. cat /dev/video0 > myfile.mpg) which worked! |
| [15:34:04] | wagnerrp: | there is very little reason to ever mess around with the framegrabber capabilities of that card |
| [15:34:45] | larzen1: | wagnerrp: so my approach about doing a straight copy (in a thread) is actually correct? |
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| [15:35:51] | wagnerrp: | yes, thats how you should read from IVTV cards |
| [15:36:17] | larzen1: | wagnerrp: perfect. I have another question for you – this one is on a slightly different topic if you don't mind. |
| [15:37:05] | larzen1: | All this is for analog streams, which as you know are sort of antique by now. However, my cable provider doesnt provide a clear QAM signal, and forces us to buy a set-top-box |
| [15:38:05] | wagnerrp: | they must provide a clear qam signal |
| [15:38:15] | larzen1: | my question is as follows: so if I want to have hdtv (720p) using an HVR-2250 type card, how would i do my setup? |
| [15:38:23] | wagnerrp: | oh, youre canadian, no they dont |
| [15:38:29] | larzen1: | yes =( |
| [15:38:40] | wagnerrp: | you want to... capture analog using an HVR-2250? |
| [15:38:42] | larzen1: | so I am stuck with Analog or TWO set top boxes with ir blasters |
| [15:38:57] | larzen1: | wagnerrp: hvr-2250 didnt support analog 6 months ago |
| [15:39:01] | larzen1: | not sure if it got added in yet. |
| [15:39:03] | wagnerrp: | and it still doesnt |
| [15:39:06] | larzen1: | right now I have pvr-150s |
| [15:40:11] | larzen1: | so essentially my own option is to IR blast STBs |
| [15:40:35] | larzen1: | and read from the Video/audio channels – where my milage will vary... |
| [15:40:39] | larzen1: | or stay analog =) |
| [15:40:43] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: you can only capture an SD signal (480i) with your PVR-150s. If you want to capture HD, you'll need HD-PVRs to capture the component output from your cable STB |
| [15:40:50] | wagnerrp: | basically |
| [15:41:02] | olejl: | anyone got this card working with linux / mythtv: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mystique_SaTiX-S2_Dual? |
| [15:41:12] | larzen1: | J-e-f-f-A: yessir =) |
| [15:41:34] | larzen1: | i've had the ir blast thing working before for digital cable... |
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| [15:41:48] | larzen1: | and the STB's OSD would get in the way.. nasty stuff. |
| [15:43:08] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: Unless there's clear QAM available to you to be able to tune with a QAM tuner such as the 2250, then the HD-PVR is your only option to get HD into your myth box. |
| [15:43:35] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: Just add an 'exit' or 'cancel' command to your IR channel-change script – that gets rid of the OSD quickly. |
| [15:44:20] | clever: | J-e-f-f-A: with my stb, if you dial 2 0 exit, it will cancle the channel change because i didnt dial a full 3/4 digits |
| [15:44:24] | larzen1: | J-e-f-f-A: you have this setup working? |
| [15:44:30] | clever: | so i also had an add an ok to force the channel change |
| [15:44:53] | larzen1: | IR blast seems like such a flaky way of doing it. I wish there was a cleaner more reliable way to access the STB |
| [15:45:36] | clever: | yeah, mine keeps recording channel 2 on ocasion |
| [15:45:53] | clever: | i put together a usb webcam and some scripts to verify things, but its still buggy |
| [15:46:25] | wagnerrp: | larzen1: you can use firewire or serial, if thats available |
| [15:46:28] | clever: | firewire channel changing seems much more reliable, and basicaly does the exact same thing, fakes key presses |
| [15:47:08] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: I'm in the US, and have two STB's feeding HD-PVRs. I use Firewire for channel changing, but it's basically the same as IR, I stil send the 'cancel' command to get the OSD off quickly. |
| [15:47:26] | anykey_: | olejl: yeah, works perfectly |
| [15:48:09] | larzen1: | J-e-f-f-A: what STB model do you have? |
| [15:48:14] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: IR isn't as bad as it's reputation... I used it for the previous ~5 years with very few issues, and those were just when I was getting it setup basically... |
| [15:48:23] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: Motorola QIP-7100 |
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| [15:48:28] | olejl: | anykey_: I read the wiki and it is supposed to use the ngene driver, but I am not able to compile it http://pastebin.com/PjrvWnti |
| [15:48:45] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: basically a close-cousin to the 6200 |
| [15:50:11] | larzen1: | J-e-f-f-A: reading about it now |
| [15:50:17] | larzen1: | to see if we have it here with Shaw Cable |
| [15:50:30] | anykey_: | olejl: can't help you with that right now |
| [15:50:31] | larzen1: | even thene, these asses shut all the ports down on those. |
| [15:50:56] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: careful with the language please. |
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| [15:51:11] | olejl: | anykey_: np, good to know that it is possible at least. |
| [15:53:20] | larzen1: | J-e-f-f-A: no problem. Does the mpeg stream come through the firewire port? |
| [15:53:27] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [15:53:48] | larzen1: | wagnerrp: on the QIP-7100 ? |
| [15:53:58] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: I haven't tried – chances are that it's encrypted, so I haven't bothered. I have HD-PVRs. ;-) |
| [15:54:23] | larzen1: | there are winows users trying this out and reporitng some limited success on 32-bit systmes. |
| [15:54:26] | wagnerrp: | on all firewire |
| [15:54:31] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: but as wagnerrp says, it should get passed through. |
| [15:54:36] | wagnerrp: | firewire doesnt have the bandwidth to send uncompressed HD video |
| [15:56:02] | larzen1: | i see. so we are talking about some mpeg-2/4 type stream |
| [15:56:05] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: Here in the US, the firewire outputs are protected with 5C – and virtually everything is protected... |
| [15:56:21] | larzen1: | 5C being the encryption |
| [15:56:51] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: only the OTA channels are required to be in-the-clear, and sometimes those aren't even in the clear... |
| [15:58:45] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: exactly. So, the HD-PVRs work perfectly, as they capture the Analog Component HD outputs from the STB and encode to h.264 |
| [16:00:09] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: The only drawback for me is that it takes A LOT more CPU to commflag h.264... My Athlon 64 X2 6000+ used to be able to do it in real-time with SD MPEG2 recordings, now struggles to keep up with the h.264 recordings from the HD-PVRs (but it does still work, just takes much longer...) |
| [16:00:33] | larzen1: | oh right – i havent even played with commflag |
| [16:00:36] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: Thank God for VDPAU!!!! ;-) |
| [16:00:58] | larzen1: | but VDPAU is mostly for playback as I understand |
| [16:00:59] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: I don't know how accurate it is in Canada, but it's pretty accurate here in the US – probably in the high 90's... |
| [16:01:22] | larzen1: | commflag mainly banks on blackspace right? |
| [16:01:34] | larzen1: | combination of black frames and time limts (5 min?) |
| [16:01:38] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: Yes, vdpau is entrirely for playback at the moment... perhaps the CUDA interface can be used for transcoding at some point in the future, but nothing has hit the mainstream yet (AFAIK) |
| [16:02:03] | larzen1: | J-e-f-f-A: so I take it SAT is same – no clear QAM.. |
| [16:02:21] | larzen1: | i mean, I would be fine with an STB or a converter that takes these encrypted channels and blasts our clear QAM |
| [16:02:27] | J-e-f-f-A: | SAT is a wholeother ballgame... |
| [16:02:30] | larzen1: | out = put. |
| [16:03:39] | J-e-f-f-A: | No, there are no STBs that I know of 'output' clear QAM for tuning with a 'standard' HD tuner. |
| [16:05:03] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: It's either HDMI, Component Analog, or SD outputs (S-Video, Composite, RF) |
| [16:06:11] | wagnerrp: | J-e-f-f-A: more likely it would use OpenCL than CUDA |
| [16:06:35] | larzen1: | the other cable prover is the old phone comapny Telus, they have these IPN430 boxes ... that run a SIGNA-schip |
| [16:06:38] | larzen1: | SIGMA chip |
| [16:07:12] | J-e-f-f-A: | wagnerrp: yah, that's right. ;-) |
| [16:07:20] | larzen1: | there are ways to root he firmware out and put your own sigma-based Linux OS on them, but that completely destroys the box =). |
| [16:07:24] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: is that an IPTV box? Sounds like it. |
| [16:07:35] | larzen1: | yes it is =) |
| [16:07:56] | wagnerrp: | larzen1: open source projects cannot use the Sigma chip |
| [16:08:02] | larzen1: | I've had a stack of them from a friend of mine who works for a telco ... so I got to play with JTAGs and all that. |
| [16:08:09] | wagnerrp: | as Sigma Designs has not openly released documentation on their hardware |
| [16:08:25] | wagnerrp: | you would have to completely reverse engineer the interface from scratch |
| [16:08:33] | J-e-f-f-A: | larzen1: Well, I also have an SD IPTV box feeding a PVR-150, controlled by IR. It works well... |
| [16:09:02] | larzen1: | i was going to say.. not much success on my part. |
| [16:09:12] | larzen1: | not much detail on "hacking" these. |
| [16:09:12] | wagnerrp: | any information that you may have gotten would be under an NDA |
| [16:09:42] | wagnerrp: | and carries serious repercussions on your friend, or whoever higher up the chain signed the NDA |
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| [16:10:01] | larzen1: | wagnerrp: these are scrapped boxes. No NDA. |
| [16:10:18] | larzen1: | didnt even have power adapters =) |
| [16:10:39] | wagnerrp: | NDA = non-disclosure agreement |
| [16:10:56] | wagnerrp: | the documentation or code or whatever you got that showed you how to access that decoding hardware |
| [16:11:01] | wagnerrp: | is controlled under an NDA |
| [16:11:22] | wagnerrp: | youre not supposed to disclose it to anyone, especially those who have not themselves signed the NDA |
| [16:12:26] | larzen1: | nothing outside of what google offered. |
| [16:14:20] | larzen1: | there are actually decent code examples done for Dreambox/DBox2 |
| [16:14:27] | larzen1: | which is another sigma based box |
| [16:14:47] | larzen1: | and portion of what they put on those is under GPL |
| [16:15:37] | larzen1: | quite frankly on the topic of Sigma – their display interface is so weak that your controlling interface would be nothing more than a command line or a very simple user interface. |
| [16:15:57] | larzen1: | You are far better off spending $100 on an ATOM 330 based board and using... you guessed it, MythTV |
| [16:16:09] | larzen1: | and clear QAM =) |
| [16:16:13] | wagnerrp: | i wont argue with that |
| [16:16:37] | wagnerrp: | but there are a lot of people around he who seem to want to run underpowered, embedded boxes |
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| [16:18:47] | larzen1: | i will tell you though... the IPN430 has a great little metallic case |
| [16:18:54] | johnnyj: | mysql on mac is loads of fun |
| [16:20:28] | larzen1: | and an ASUS ATOM-based board fits nicely =) You will need a power connector from Cyntronix... |
| [16:20:44] | larzen1: | and re-sodder the connectors for power, network light and HD spin... |
| [16:21:10] | larzen1: | have yourself a nice free case with a modded atom board. The backplate has to be cut out too – but it works out nicely. |
| [16:21:58] | larzen1: | anyhow. thank you very much for all the info!! much appreciated. |
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| [16:22:24] | larzen1: | i will now code up my own little tuner tester for the IVTV! |
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| [16:51:21] | cipher42: | do cableCard's work with myth? |
| [16:51:57] | wagnerrp: | never |
| [16:53:32] | cipher42: | never will i suppose? |
| [16:54:18] | wagnerrp: | support for cablecard requires following cable labs' license agreement |
| [16:54:38] | wagnerrp: | which requires that content protection be maintained for the entire lifetime of the content |
| [16:54:49] | wagnerrp: | from the tuner card, all the way to the tv, and everywhere in between |
| [16:55:07] | wagnerrp: | not something easily accomplished in mythtv, or even in linux for that matter |
| [16:55:25] | cipher42: | but microsoft can get away with it?? |
| [16:55:36] | hopper75: | I'm seeing 2 errors when trying to import a DVD: http://pastebin.com/TWZ8gkM8 Playing a DVD works fine. Does this look familiar to anyone? |
| [16:56:06] | wagnerrp: | add on top of that the requirement for an (expensive) authorization process, that mythtv would never be able to pay, before being given access keys |
| [16:56:21] | cipher42: | aaahhh i see |
| [16:56:22] | wagnerrp: | cipher42: windows is a closed system, they can implement protected data paths all they want |
| [16:56:55] | wagnerrp: | you try to do something like that in open source code, and someone else just takes the source, removes the protection, recompiles, and instant DRM bypass |
| [16:57:04] | gbee: | hopper75: looks like a broken theme, let me just check if it's still broken in trunk |
| [16:57:34] | ThisOtherGuy: | Hi all – I opened #8619 which is about mythtvosd not working in trunk any more. I noticed in tv_play.cpp that osd->StartNotify() was commented out (which explains the issue). Does anyone know if there is a replacement in the new osd code (since startnotify doesn't exist any more)? |
| [16:57:50] | wagnerrp: | cipher42: even if we did want to limit the usability of mythtv in such a manner, its simply not possible to use DRM with open source code |
| [16:58:54] | wagnerrp: | ThisOtherGuy: mythtvosd is planned for obsolescence, with something new intended for the new UI and OSD |
| [16:59:00] | hopper75: | gbee: tried that theme and metallurgy as well. There was a previous ticket that sounded awefully similar but was fixed (apparently). http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7854 |
| [16:59:05] | cipher42: | is there a way to stream netflix in myth? |
| [16:59:16] | wagnerrp: | cipher42: and were right back to DRM |
| [16:59:22] | cipher42: | yea that's what i thought |
| [16:59:26] | wagnerrp: | netflix streaming uses silverlight |
| [16:59:39] | wagnerrp: | there is an open source version of silverlight for use in linux, called moonlight |
| [16:59:40] | cipher42: | i swear i saw netflix in my myth a while ago |
| [16:59:43] | gbee: | hopper75: it's in the base theme, the fallback which is used when another theme lacks that screen |
| [16:59:50] | wagnerrp: | but with the whole opensource/DRM issue |
| [16:59:57] | gbee: | and moonlight sucks |
| [17:00:02] | wagnerrp: | microsoft will never open up their DRM spec and keys for use with moonlight |
| [17:00:05] | gbee: | worse than silverlight |
| [17:00:06] | cipher42: | yea i have moonlight 2.2 but firefox still tells me it's incompatible |
| [17:00:32] | wagnerrp: | so until microsoft releases a binary version of silverlight for use in linux, or netflix produces another streaming mechanism that doesnt use silverlight and/or drm |
| [17:00:36] | wagnerrp: | no netflix in mythtv |
| [17:00:48] | ThisOtherGuy: | wagnerrp: thanks – any previews / ETAs in the meantime so I can boost the WAF? |
| [17:01:23] | wagnerrp: | no, as i understand it, development on a replacement was waiting for the OSD merge a couple weeks ago |
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| [17:01:36] | wagnerrp: | now its just waiting on some free time and motivation to actually do so |
| [17:02:06] | ThisOtherGuy: | k – lemme know if I can help |
| [17:02:14] | wagnerrp: | the plan being a unified interface that works in both the menu (UI) and playback (OSD) |
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| [17:02:28] | wagnerrp: | as it stands, mythtvosd only ever worked during playback |
| [17:02:59] | hopper75: | gbee: that makes sense as per ticket 7854. I'm not familiar enough with the code at the moment... is it failing or reporting it's using the default theme instead since the theme lacks those screens? |
| [17:03:34] | gbee: | hopper75: I'll get it fixed in the next couple of hours, you should be able to grab updated packages for your distro (if they make them available) |
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| [17:07:46] | ThisOtherGuy: | wagnerrp – that sounds awesome – that would be a big improvement (especially from a WAF perspective) |
| [17:07:53] | hopper75: | gbee: thank you so much. You rock! I imagine grabbing the source will be my best bet... rpmfusion may be very slow to re-package. |
| [17:08:50] | gbee: | hopper75: I'll ask Jarod if he can release an update, no guarantees but I imagine he'll be fine with that |
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| [17:09:17] | hopper75: | wonderful. Should I be concerned with the mount messages onlines 1 & 2: http://pastebin.com/TWZ8gkM8 ? |
| [17:10:14] | wagnerrp: | /dev/sr0 is a possible mount point for CD/DVD drives |
| [17:10:15] | sphery: | jams: If you think we should keep "Change channels immediately without select," now is the time to try to explain its worth. :) |
| [17:10:22] | wagnerrp: | if you dont have one of those, dont worry about it |
| [17:10:41] | gbee: | hopper75: hmm, I've just fired up the import here and although the theme is broken, it doesn't appear to impair functionality, I'm able to start ripping |
| [17:11:12] | gbee: | the UI needs work generally, but it does work |
| [17:11:18] | hopper75: | gbee: OK, that makes sense. Makese me think the mount message may be the problem. |
| [17:11:22] | hopper75: | I'll try a few things. |
| [17:12:11] | gbee: | yeah, I missed the mount error at the beginning of the paste |
| [17:13:27] | sphery: | jams: The way I see it, without the setting it still changes channels at timeout (3s) if you don't enable it. If you want immediate change, you can hit SELECT. So, at worst, removing the setting wastes a couple seconds of your life or forces you to hit one extra button /only/ when changing channels in Live TV when not using Browse mode or the EPG. And, if we leave that setting in, some combinations of numeric input are impossible for things like ... |
| [17:13:28] | gbee: | IMHO that's still a failing of Myth, but it falls into the unimplemented feature category, a workaround would be to add a mount point for your drive in /etc/fstab |
| [17:13:33] | sphery: | ... arbitrary seek (i.e. it breaks other functionality in MythTV). So those are the cons. What are the pros? |
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| [17:14:15] | gbee: | hopper75: ^^ "/dev/sr0 /media/dvd auto umask=0,users,iocharset=utf8,noauto,ro,exec 0 0" |
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| [17:16:19] | gbee: | be warned that DVD ripping hasn't be updated to know about storage groups, it requires a local directory to be configured to mythvideo, I need to discuss that with iamlindoro and Captain_Murdoch |
| [17:17:30] | gbee: | sphery: the UI theme != osd theme, especially for 0.23 |
| [17:17:39] | wagnerrp: | gbee: im wondering if the best course would be to upload it to the Temp storage group somewhere, and then migrate the transcoder to using the jobqueue instead of MTD from there |
| [17:17:47] | sphery: | gbee: heh, oops... |
| [17:20:08] | wagnerrp: | i really need to get to work on the jobqueue rewrite, so such a change wouldnt eat up one user job slot |
| [17:21:34] | gbee: | wagnerrp: something like that, but I've no personal opinion when it comes to that feature, I don't use it frequently enough to care precisely how it works, it would be nice to integrate it better and maybe lose mtd – we don't really need a daemon for a job that might only be done on average twice a week at best and a couple of times a year for most users |
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| [17:22:44] | sphery: | though it wouldn't necessarily have to take up a slot (could be "built in" like mythcommflag and transcodes)--that said, your approach would still be very nice |
| [17:22:52] | sphery: | and I agree that mtd is useless |
| [17:22:59] | wagnerrp: | i know danielk has reservations for using mythproto for recording |
| [17:23:07] | wagnerrp: | but i would love to see it get used for everything else |
| [17:23:31] | wagnerrp: | transcoding, commflagging (believe its already used here), dvd ripping, etc... |
| [17:24:29] | wagnerrp: | sphery: thats what i mean, the jobqueue would have to be modified to add a new built-in |
| [17:24:40] | sphery: | oh |
| [17:24:47] | wagnerrp: | the purpose of the rewrite is to remove all built-in jobs |
| [17:24:51] | sphery: | I thought you meant a user-job slot |
| [17:24:57] | gbee: | noticed that when you've two drives it prompts you to chose between them using an old-ui popup |
| [17:25:22] | wagnerrp: | sphery: i did, adding a built in would be the alternative |
| [17:25:59] | gbee: | whole thing could be done better somehow, the option to chose between drives should be integrated into the same screen as the other ripping options |
| [17:26:17] | sphery: | wow, that forum thread that was linked in #mythtv is fun to read |
| [17:26:27] | sphery: | just makes all the work so worthwhile |
| [17:26:31] | wagnerrp: | the ubuntu one? |
| [17:26:32] | wagnerrp: | yeah... |
| [17:26:33] | sphery: | yeah |
| [17:27:21] | wagnerrp: | we should all just try to regain our honor, by killing ourselves and forcing everyone to move to xbmc |
| [17:27:24] | sphery: | at least the guy who explained just how broken all our code is submitted patches to fix everything |
| [17:27:27] | sphery: | oh, wait... |
| [17:27:32] | sphery: | heh |
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| [17:28:06] | sphery: | But XBMC doesn't have enough settings... They put things into the theme. My grandma shouldn't have to edit XML to change the UI. |
| [17:28:34] | gbee: | you grandma shouldn't need to change the UI |
| [17:28:37] | gbee: | your |
| [17:28:40] | sphery: | And look at what happens when you do that kind of thing: You write a theme and change XBMC into Boxee. It's a completely different program, but without code changes. |
| [17:28:56] | sphery: | that's just wrong... Everyone should be forced to use MythTV the way I use it. |
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| [17:29:37] | sphery: | (actually, I think that's the best thing about XBMC--it's heavily customizable through themes, and not just the look of it) |
| [17:29:59] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: i think this might brighten your day a bit... http://gizmodo.com/5592503/ |
| [17:30:20] | sphery: | heh |
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| [17:31:25] | hopper75: | Hmm. No errors any more re: mounting, still have theme errors, but nothing happens when I start the rip. http://pastebin.com/iumzhNaC I must be doing something dumb? |
| [17:31:42] | hopper75: | still have errors = theme errors |
| [17:32:17] | hopper75: | gui messge is No jobs and nothing else to do. You could rip a DVD. |
| [17:33:02] | sphery: | the dvd ripper UI is not very intuitive |
| [17:33:15] | sphery: | it's quite possible everything is working right, and you just need to start a job |
| [17:33:31] | sphery: | I don't remember the keys to do so (but it may be numeric keys or something) |
| [17:34:21] | hopper75: | I've got one of the titles selected, quality set to perfect, and I select Begin R... (presumably short for Begin Rip) |
| [17:34:43] | sphery: | sounds right, but I haven't ripped a DVD for years, so... |
| [17:34:48] | hopper75: | hehe |
| [17:34:57] | sphery: | all I remember is that it took me several tries to figure it out |
| [17:35:00] | hopper75: | My first time so could very well be me doing something dumb. |
| [17:36:05] | hopper75: | AH, select 0 to begin. Lemme try that |
| [17:36:12] | gbee: | hopper, kill mtd, start it manually from a console and try again |
| [17:36:35] | gbee: | hopper75: I thought I'd removed that 'select 0' nonsense, which version are you using? |
| [17:37:24] | hopper75: | I'm using 0.23. I was just googling to try and get a clue. :-) |
| [17:37:34] | gbee: | odd |
| [17:38:03] | hopper75: | 0 didn't do anything so that makes sense. |
| [17:38:16] | hopper75: | Wierd that begin doesn't do anything, but no error either. |
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| [17:38:59] | gbee: | 0 used to start the background daemon which actually performed the ripping, in trunk (and I thought 0.23), that process is started automatically |
| [17:39:31] | gbee: | anyway, run 'mtd' manually as you can then inspect it's log output |
| [17:39:45] | hopper75: | yeah, if thats mtd, it's running |
| [17:39:55] | hopper75: | ok, I'll do that |
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| [17:41:56] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-20.html needs updating... |
| [17:41:58] | sphery: | or removal |
| [17:42:53] | sphery: | hopper75: that said, http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-20.html#ss20.3 may be helpful... run mtd in the foreground in a terminal so you can watch logging ( mtd -n ) |
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| [17:46:12] | hopper75: | sphery: thanks. I'll try that. There was an mtd running already. I'll try that howto to learn more. |
| [17:47:16] | Beirdo: | larzen1: if you want to know what ivtv drivers support, may I suggest READING the ivtv driver source code? |
| [17:47:17] | sphery: | yeah, if you shut it down and then run in the console, you may see more |
| [17:49:36] | gbee: | dvd ripping needs to be re-written from scratch, and maybe bluray ripping can be rolled in at the same time, it should be broken out into it's own plugin for legal reasons |
| [17:50:00] | hopper75: | Whohoo, a good thread to pull on. Looks like a path issue. |
| [17:51:50] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: a bit late to that one arent you? |
| [17:51:56] | hopper75: | The prefix on the files it wanted to create were /share/Movies/dvd – I'll find where that's set and fix it. |
| [17:52:06] | sphery: | hopper75: ah, yeah, must have a valid rip directory specified |
| [17:52:22] | sphery: | it's in settings under optical media, iirc |
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| [18:01:18] | EvilGuru: | You know why I hate summer? Thunderflies. |
| [18:01:23] | wagnerrp: | ? |
| [18:01:31] | EvilGuru: | Lost a TV and a monitor to them last year |
| [18:01:43] | kormoc: | that's easy enough to prevent |
| [18:02:45] | EvilGuru: | Had one in my ThinkPad the other day |
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| [18:03:00] | wagnerrp: | how did it get in the computer? |
| [18:03:22] | EvilGuru: | wagnerrp: Into the screen, they get between the components of the panel |
| [18:03:31] | wagnerrp: | and that broke it? |
| [18:03:43] | wagnerrp: | i get spider mites in my LCDs occasionally |
| [18:03:44] | kormoc: | wait |
| [18:03:48] | kormoc: | you mean real bugs? |
| [18:03:50] | wagnerrp: | and while annoying, they dont hurt anything |
| [18:03:56] | EvilGuru: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2QfAhK1EuE |
| [18:04:11] | wagnerrp: | or you mean it got in there and died? |
| [18:04:11] | kormoc: | oh, corn lice |
| [18:04:18] | EvilGuru: | I mean real bugs, which are the size of several pixels, and die after a day of being stuck |
| [18:04:20] | kormoc: | they do tend to short things out |
| [18:05:53] | wagnerrp: | the things im talking about a the size of a single pixel |
| [18:06:08] | hopper75: | Phew, that took me a bit to find. setup->media settings->video settings->general. My thrashing DVD indicates I probably got it. :-) Thank you all so much for the help/advice. |
| [18:06:10] | kormoc: | I've never really had that much of a problem with corn lice, once in a great while we'd have one somewhere and it'd zap itself |
| [18:06:29] | EvilGuru: | They seem to be very adept at getting into screens |
| [18:06:34] | hopper75: | The tip to run mtd at the console was really helpful. Immediately showed me the problem. |
| [18:06:34] | kormoc: | EvilGuru, you should move to a bugless place |
| [18:06:43] | hopper75: | Plus the /etc/fstab line. |
| [18:07:20] | EvilGuru: | kormoc: Got a field down the end of the road :( |
| [18:07:30] | wagnerrp: | that, or open up and apply silicone all around your monitors |
| [18:07:45] | kormoc: | go spray it with salt water every night |
| [18:07:52] | kormoc: | no plants, no bugs! |
| [18:08:03] | wagnerrp: | no display! |
| [18:08:20] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, I ment spray the field |
| [18:08:36] | kormoc: | or move to the big city |
| [18:08:53] | kormoc: | live in a impersonal high rise |
| [18:09:26] | hopper75: | I now see the Rip/Transcode screen for the video I ripped. Thanks gbee, sphery, wagnerrp |
| [18:09:50] | johnnyj: | kormoc: you're not safe in the 'big city' |
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| [18:10:27] | kormoc: | johnnyj, pay enough and you are! |
| [18:11:02] | johnnyj: | kormoc: pay or spray? |
| [18:11:14] | kormoc: | sure |
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| [18:45:08] | sphery: | Anyone have any thoughts on how to go through and cull out-of-date/broken themes from: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Themes |
| [18:45:20] | sphery: | maybe tag the known-working ones? |
| [18:45:39] | sphery: | and separate tag for unknown status and just plain remove known-broken ones? |
| [18:47:23] | kormoc: | perhaps create a tag called themes-0.23, themes-0.24 and tag working themes based on that? |
| [18:47:51] | sphery: | wagnerrp: you seem to know mediawiki pretty well... do you know how we could do that? |
| [18:48:06] | sphery: | I'm removing Glass-OSD since we got a report it doesn't work. |
| [18:49:52] | wagnerrp: | im just making this up as a go along |
| [18:49:57] | wagnerrp: | maybe a compatibility table? |
| [18:50:17] | sphery: | looks like it was added in Nov 2009, which would have been 0.22... Wonder what changed |
| [18:50:39] | wagnerrp: | the 'highlighted item' for one |
| [18:50:41] | sphery: | Yeah, we need to get gbee's theme version info + the theme downloader in place... that would help a lot |
| [18:50:55] | sphery: | oh, didn't realize anything changed in osd themes |
| [18:51:19] | wagnerrp: | yeah, only think i can think of is to make it a table instead of a gallery |
| [18:51:19] | sphery: | and people say I remember all things myth... I think wagnerrp is that guy, now |
| [18:51:56] | wagnerrp: | i just remember it because it happened right before the end of the theme competition |
| [18:52:00] | wagnerrp: | and broke all the entries |
| [18:52:20] | wagnerrp: | the highlighted item turned invisible |
| [18:52:56] | sphery: | maybe we should just see what happens with the theme downloader |
| [18:53:05] | sphery: | and then rework the page after |
| [18:54:04] | sphery: | wow, talk about minor differences... BlueCurves and blueBar |
| [18:54:08] | sphery: | wonder if there are other diffs on other screens |
| [18:54:17] | sphery: | (or if it's just the rounded corners) |
| [18:56:10] | gbee: | nothing changed in osd themes between 0.21 and 0.23 |
| [18:56:40] | gbee: | but all osd themes were entirely broken by the osd port to mythui |
| [18:57:41] | sphery: | yeah |
| [18:57:57] | sphery: | I didn't know about earlier, but I do realize about trunk |
| [18:58:12] | kormoc: | Are there working themes out there we're not shipping? |
| [18:58:13] | sphery: | speaking of which... should I delete all the old OSD themes from trunk? |
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| [18:58:23] | kormoc: | BELETTED! |
| [18:58:36] | sphery: | according to the wiki page, there are :) (Then again, #8669 was due to using one of them :) |
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| [18:58:56] | gbee: | sphery: mark made initial efforts to port some of them, but I don't know which and none are complete |
| [18:59:18] | sphery: | heh, I already deleted them |
| [18:59:29] | sphery: | it's bad when you don't remember doing some of the things you've done |
| [18:59:38] | gbee: | ;) |
| [19:00:08] | sphery: | [25117] |
| [19:03:54] | sphery: | wonder if Castles (from the wiki) is here |
| [19:04:40] | sphery: | nvm... seems Ian added a comment to the blog about the theme. |
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| [19:30:44] | justinh: | grr Emmerdull didn't record. or rather it did, but 0B |
| [19:30:57] | justinh: | time to go log scrumpin |
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| [19:31:58] | gbee: | justinh: your backend has become self-aware and it has taste |
| [19:32:08] | justinh: | hmmm absolutely squat of any susbtance in the log |
| [19:32:30] | justinh: | just the usual started recording, then a couple of secs later it mutters about the file not being local |
| [19:32:41] | justinh: | gbee: most likely, but it's not adding to the WAF |
| [19:33:31] | justinh: | whoah thats new: 2010-07–21 19:00:05.246 DVBSH(/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0): Failed to open DVR device /dev/dvb/adapter0/dvr0 : Device or resource busy |
| [19:34:04] | justinh: | wonder if that's cardid 1 |
| [19:35:03] | justinh: | yup, sure is. hmm. wonder if this is EIT interfering with stuff |
| [19:35:38] | sphery: | Nobody tell kormoc about MythSkyNet... He's been watching vigilantly, so we'll have to be stealthy so that we can usher in Judgement Day. |
| [19:36:29] | justinh: | maybe time to run mythtv-setup.real & see what the deal is. haven't run into this before I updated |
| [19:37:02] | wagnerrp: | when you bypass the wrappers, you bypass The Man |
| [19:37:13] | justinh: | heh |
| [19:37:30] | justinh: | I kinda need my backend up at the mo, and I'm just going in for a peek |
| [19:40:15] | justinh: | whaaa? so there's a setting for enabling active EIT on a card, but am I wrong in thinking there used to be a setting for general EIT in video sources or something? |
| [19:40:51] | justinh: | duh. but.. 'perform EIT scan' isn't even checked. wth? |
| [19:42:00] | justinh: | and er.. my radio channels – which all have useonairguide checked – have EIT data |
| [19:43:39] | justinh: | ah my 2nd tuner had active EIT enabled |
| [19:43:57] | justinh: | turned that off, and am gonna go back to passive EIT I think |
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| [19:58:49] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | What is the best way to secure MythTV if letting it be accessed over the open net? |
| [19:59:36] | wagnerrp: | VPN |
| [19:59:49] | justinh: | the best way is to close the ports on your router & forget the silly idea altogether. SRSLY |
| [19:59:53] | wagnerrp: | s/best/only/ |
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| [20:00:33] | justinh: | or do you mean MythWeb, not actually MythTV itself – by which you're implying running a frontend in a place which isn't home |
| [20:01:49] | justinh: | if you mean just mythweb, the frontend type interface in yer web browser it's quite straightfoward to secure |
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| [20:19:10] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | IRC cut out. Did I get any response to my question? |
| [20:20:01] | justinh: | did you actually mean mythweb or are you planning (plain silly IMHO) to run a frontend somewhere away from your home? |
| [20:20:49] | justinh: | if the former, mythweb is pretty simple to secure. if the latter, a VPN (wagnerp's suggestion) is the *only* way |
| [20:20:58] | wagnerrp: | there is no way to secure mythtv without rewriting big chunks of the protocol code, and pulling in all database access through it |
| [20:21:09] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Sorry. I crashed and missed the responses. |
| [20:21:31] | wagnerrp: | if you want to securely access mythtv remotely, you must use a VPN of some sorts |
| [20:21:34] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | JustinH, I agree with you about the protocol code. |
| [20:21:45] | J-e-f-f-A: | !url irclog |
| [20:21:45] | MythLogBot: | No match for keyword irclog |
| [20:21:51] | wagnerrp: | !url logs |
| [20:21:52] | MythLogBot: | logs: http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1 |
| [20:22:01] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Someone was telling me about their idea for a MythTV script that would require direct access and I was wondering if there was something I missed. |
| [20:22:03] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Thank you for the log |
| [20:22:08] | J-e-f-f-A: | wagnerrp: Ah, there is one. ;-) |
| [20:22:28] | justinh: | and anyway in addition to using a VPN you'd need plenty upstream bandwidth on your home internet connection |
| [20:22:57] | J-e-f-f-A: | justinh: would 35Mbps do? ;-) That's what I have.... 35/35 MuWaHaHa!!!! |
| [20:23:15] | justinh: | :-O |
| [20:23:17] | ** gbee stifles a reply ** | |
| [20:24:22] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | I was thinking it would create a big dangerous hole in my network. |
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| [20:24:33] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Shame, other than that, the rest of the idea sounded cool. |
| [20:26:23] | wagnerrp: | it would be great if someone added a mysql proxy, and authentication, and encryption to the backend protocol, and maybe some fuzz testing |
| [20:26:50] | ** J-e-f-f-A laughs. ** | |
| [20:28:38] | sphery: | wagnerrp: and we should do some compression algorithm that allows us to transmit 13Mbps MPEG-2 over a 750kbps uplink, too. |
| [20:28:59] | sphery: | then we can make MythTV a cloud application |
| [20:29:10] | J-e-f-f-A: | sphery: ooh, add 13Mbps h.264 to that too! |
| [20:29:23] | wagnerrp: | thats simple, only send the I frames |
| [20:29:33] | GadgetWisdomGuru: | Wagnerrp, until we all have a lot of upstream, it won't really work. |
| [20:29:42] | sphery: | J-e-f-f-A: yeah, compressing h.264 should be even easier than MPEG-2, since the video is so loosely packed |
| [20:30:20] | sphery: | wagnerrp: since some of the H.264 out there only has I-frames every 10s or 30s, we might actually be able to keep up with that |
| [20:31:38] | wagnerrp: | i could believe 10 seconds, but 30? |
| [20:32:04] | wagnerrp: | i know x264 is dynamic, but they set a default maximum spacing to like 250 frames or something |
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| [20:33:31] | kormoc: | sphery, SKYNET-KHAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!! |
| [20:33:48] | wagnerrp: | khanet? |
| [20:33:52] | sphery: | wagnerrp: well, one person said his H.264 video (whose pedigree is /very/ much in question) had no I-frames |
| [20:33:58] | J-e-f-f-A: | Have you guys played back HD-PVR h.264 recordings on a PS3 via UPnP? My son's 40GB PS3 plays them flawlessly... you can even play in slow-mo, frame-by-frame, both forward and backwards... very impressive... |
| [20:34:08] | sphery: | kormoc: you weren't supposed to notice... great, now the robots will never take over |
| [20:34:43] | sphery: | or maybe that was no key frames |
| [20:35:05] | sphery: | anyway, since I"m pretty sure I know exactly where/how he got that video, I don't care to worry about it |
| [20:36:39] | wagnerrp: | sphery: well of course their knowledge of video compression is suspect |
| [20:36:56] | wagnerrp: | considering you cannot seek in a file with no I-frames |
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| [20:37:27] | wagnerrp: | and you would still need at least one at the beginning |
| [20:37:45] | wagnerrp: | got a link to the list archive? |
| [20:38:07] | J-e-f-f-A: | Does sphery have a link? Of course he does! ;-) |
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| [20:39:07] | sphery: | heh, this was just hearsay, not on list or anything |
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| [20:54:12] | Beirdo: | phugh |
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| [21:37:59] | larrikin: | umm, after upgrading mythweb to 0.23, I don't get a 'return to tv listings' link in program detail pages -after- doing an update.. but instead get a 'return to recording schedules' .. making it difficult to browse the tv listings and edit the recording schedules |
| [21:38:17] | kormoc: | oh lordy |
| [21:38:17] | larrikin: | is this expected behaviour? |
| [21:38:32] | kormoc: | it's a bug I missed |
| [21:38:41] | larrikin: | okay |
| [21:38:48] | kormoc: | I swear, I never seem to get that one right |
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| [21:39:18] | larrikin: | is it a couple of lines of change, or something bigger ? |
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| [21:39:53] | kormoc: | it's a few lines, but it's in a piece of code that is shared in all the views so it makes it pretty hard to get it right |
| [21:40:17] | larrikin: | oh.. :( |
| [21:40:48] | ** NightMonkey comments on the dev channel discussion... ** | |
| [21:41:21] | kormoc: | NightMonkey, %s/comments/meta-comments/ ? |
| [21:41:43] | NightMonkey: | I think MythTV version 1001 would be absurd enough to show how absurd versions numbers are.... ;) |
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| [21:42:22] | NightMonkey: | Absurd and arbitrary, that is. |
| [21:42:24] | kormoc: | look at windows, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, me, xp, vista, and now back to 7 |
| [21:42:40] | larrikin: | I started looking at it myself, I saw a comment in detail.php about the page redirecting to itself, but without query string and figured that the query string probably contained a reference to time.. and then got lost in it all |
| [21:42:45] | kormoc: | perhaps Mythtv ME |
| [21:42:52] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: YES! |
| [21:43:03] | Beirdo: | MythTV Bob |
| [21:43:06] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: Now we need a Clippy. |
| [21:43:17] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: Or, MythTV "Bob" |
| [21:43:20] | NightMonkey: | doh |
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| [21:43:24] | NightMonkey: | jinx |
| [21:43:47] | kormoc: | "You appear to be watching a tv show. Would you like me to show you how to fast forward, rewind, or pause?" |
| [21:43:53] | NightMonkey: | HAH! |
| [21:45:57] | NightMonkey: | MythTV 2001: A Livingspace Odyssey. |
| [21:46:02] | NightMonkey: | OK, I'm done. |
| [21:46:40] | Twiggy (Twiggy!~Owner@12.182.96.2) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| [21:50:53] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: http://www.wagnerrp.com/images/random/win7clippy.jpg |
| [21:51:10] | kormoc: | ha |
| [21:54:03] | sid3windr: | open the recordings screen, mythtv |
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| [21:54:08] | sid3windr: | I'm afraid I can't let you do that, NightMonkey |
| [21:54:28] | ** Beirdo backports wagnerrp ** | |
| [21:57:25] | NightMonkey: | Error: My mind is going. I can feel it. |
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| [21:58:46] | sid3windr: | daisy, daisy.. |
| [21:58:52] | sid3windr: | :> |
| [21:59:53] | NightMonkey: | wagnerrp: That could totally become an easter egg in Mythtv. Have a search for those "special" channels, and have a pop-up on April 1st when watching shows recorded from them. |
| [22:00:54] | NightMonkey: | My shows are going. I can feel it. |
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| [22:12:05] | NightMonkey: | Hrm. I only get digests of mythtv lists; is there something triggering all the versioning chatting in #mythtv? Some ubuntu-ism? |
| [22:13:04] | kormoc: | We bumped the proto version in 0.23-fixes and some(all?)ubuntu users were updated to it and had issues connecting to other non-updated installs |
| [22:13:19] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: Oh, I see. Thanks. |
| [22:14:00] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: But hasn't it always been the case that all mythtv boxes that talk to each other need to "fly in formation" in terms of versions? |
| [22:14:07] | kormoc: | yes |
| [22:14:33] | kormoc: | the users signed up for nightly updates and then got mad when the nightly updates updated faster then the non-nightly updates did... |
| [22:14:59] | tgm4883: | well thats not entirely true |
| [22:15:05] | tgm4883: | but I don't plan on getting into that agani |
| [22:15:28] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: Hrm. I guess then I don't see the problem. Upgrade all, or upgrade none. That's the Mythtv Way(tm). |
| [22:15:40] | kormoc: | tgm4883, the only thing I read was from that user on your forums complaining and threatening to fork over it... |
| [22:15:56] | tgm4883: | kormoc, don't get me started on that user |
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| [22:17:02] | kormoc: | fair 'nuff |
| [22:17:29] | Beirdo: | he can fork.. never mind |
| [22:17:54] | kormoc: | but i guess the issue is it caught these users off-guard, they auto-updated (?) and things didn't match and there was no updates available yet for the other non-ubuntu sourced builds? |
| [22:18:04] | NightMonkey: | And, when you "outsource" your package updates (by using "automatic" updates), this is a possible consequence of not "minding the store", yes? |
| [22:18:06] | kormoc: | I don't really understand the issue fully myself |
| [22:18:21] | kormoc: | NightMonkey, my feelings on it, aye |
| [22:18:22] | ** kormoc shrugs ** | |
| [22:18:46] | larrikin: | they probably figure with all the money they pay in license fees, they are entitled to better service .. |
| [22:18:51] | kormoc: | but then I also run Gentoo to keep full control in my own hands, so I'm not a typical user with typical expectations |
| [22:19:04] | NightMonkey: | Oh, these are *paying* users? |
| [22:19:15] | sid3windr: | no, that's the point |
| [22:19:16] | sid3windr: | :p |
| [22:19:16] | sphery: | heh |
| [22:19:20] | kormoc: | they're not paying us anything |
| [22:19:30] | sphery: | I didn't get my check this month... |
| [22:19:34] | sid3windr: | better get thta sarcmarc licensed larrikin |
| [22:19:39] | NightMonkey: | Ah, I see. |
| [22:19:40] | sid3windr: | =) |
| [22:19:41] | kormoc: | sphery, we better sue! |
| [22:19:46] | sphery: | yeah! |
| [22:19:52] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [22:20:02] | larrikin: | I could probably spring for a couple of cans of soup if you're interested ? |
| [22:20:09] | NightMonkey: | Sue for emotional damages, for sure. |
| [22:20:13] | kormoc: | in the great state of WA, if you don't get paid on time (within a 24 hour period), they owe you a extra 100% per week it's outstanding |
| [22:20:22] | sphery: | then again, since I haven't really done anything on MythTV this month, I probably don't deserve the check... :( |
| [22:20:40] | Beirdo: | hmmm, I should kill a few more bugs ;) |
| [22:20:56] | NightMonkey: | sphery: Make that part of the suit. You were so demoralized by this, you need compensation. |
| [22:21:00] | sphery: | I'll have to read my employment contract. Don't know if I'm supposed to be salaried or hourly or permanent part time or ... |
| [22:21:16] | sphery: | NightMonkey: wow, thinking like a true American |
| [22:21:20] | kormoc: | We're all unpaid interns :( |
| [22:21:37] | sphery: | I still have to work on that--I tend to blame myself far too often. |
| [22:21:38] | NightMonkey: | sphery: And, didn't your moping around drag down your family, too. Add them on. |
| [22:21:43] | Beirdo: | at least we aren't Clinton interns |
| [22:21:47] | sphery: | heh, yeah |
| [22:22:17] | NightMonkey: | For great justice. |
| [22:22:39] | Beirdo: | kormoc: #8616... if you are looking for an easy ticket to fix :) |
| [22:22:42] | sphery: | It seems I could learn a thing or 2 about being truly American from Apple (and its illustrious leader). After all, he's doing everything possible to not admit to a mistake (not even blaming other engineers in the company) |
| [22:23:08] | larrikin: | you're just holding it wrong.. |
| [22:23:10] | sphery: | kormoc: and if you look at #8616, see, also, #8614--they're a matched pair |
| [22:23:21] | sphery: | larrikin: Yeah, I no longer hold anything by the lower left corner |
| [22:23:42] | sphery: | I found that my MythTV box works better that way, too! |
| [22:23:59] | Beirdo: | and your hand a lot less sore too |
| [22:24:20] | larrikin: | the funny thing is, signal strength meters on mobile phones have been faked since the nokia 3210 |
| [22:24:30] | sphery: | yeah--especially since I went with a huge full-size ATX tower case instead of one of those small cases |
| [22:24:45] | kormoc: | sphery, well, when they went to launch it, they had wifi issues, so it never started out well |
| [22:25:22] | sphery: | larrikin: No joke... I can't tell you how upset I am with the whole idea of using "bars" as a unit of measurement. The /only/ time that's acceptable is when speaking of atmospheric pressure. |
| [22:25:44] | kormoc: | sphery, it's how I measure my weekend enjoyment too |
| [22:25:47] | sphery: | (technically any pressure, but...) |
| [22:25:59] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [22:26:01] | sphery: | kormoc: ok, I stand corrected--there are 2 valid uses :) |
| [22:26:16] | sphery: | wonder how many bars of enjoyment you'll have in Vegas |
| [22:26:45] | Beirdo: | I had about 15 bars of enjoyment one night in Vienna... |
| [22:26:54] | Beirdo: | that was a fun pub crawl |
| [22:27:05] | kormoc: | ooh, less then a hewett ave crawl but more then a typical seattle weekend for sure |
| [22:27:22] | Beirdo: | we ended at the hotel... and sat at the bar and ordered scotches |
| [22:28:02] | Beirdo: | oh, and we STARTED at McDonalds |
| [22:28:15] | Beirdo: | and I swear, they asked us "is that for here or to go" |
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| [22:28:29] | Beirdo: | Europe FTW |
| [22:29:20] | ** kormoc blinks ** | |
| [22:29:33] | kormoc: | Mcdonalds always asks for here or to go? |
| [22:29:47] | Beirdo: | seems that way. even for beer :) |
| [22:29:47] | larrikin: | bars are no less acurate than decibels.. |
| [22:30:29] | Beirdo: | I believe our response was something like... "Uhhhhh, to go! Hehehehe" |
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| [23:00:21] | Beirdo: | beer me |
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| [23:01:25] | Beirdo: | iamlindoro: #7783... you planning on incorporating it? :) |
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| [23:11:33] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: Hrm. Has mythtv *ever* supported mixed backend/frontend versions? Did I miss the memo? |
| [23:12:49] | kormoc: | with the same protocol version, we allow it |
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| [23:14:45] | sphery: | but it's not really supported |
| [23:14:57] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: Huh. I've just always assumed that was a Bad Idea (tm). Well, my process isn't going to change. |
| [23:15:13] | kormoc: | it is a bad idea, but it's one we haven't coded to prevent |
| [23:15:53] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: Tough love is still love. ;) |
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| [23:17:09] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: You folks write the stuff, so you get to make the rules. ;) |
| [23:17:28] | kormoc: | NightMonkey, we could use more users with that attitude... |
| [23:17:34] | Beirdo: | hehe :) |
| [23:20:50] | NightMonkey: | Where to be fascist and where to be liberal, that's some of the art. In binary, there's nothing between 0 and 1. |
| [23:21:14] | ** NightMonkey is done writing new bumper stickers. ** | |
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| [23:23:11] | kormoc: | I'd prefer "In binary, grey does not exist" |
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| [23:25:32] | NightMonkey: | kormoc: Yes, indeed. Between 0 and 1, there is no middle ground. |
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| [23:49:14] | rhollan: | I understand that xbmc does not always play nice regarding the version of the mythtv backend protocol. But, it talks uPnP natively, and mythbackend can act as a upnp server, right? Is there any reason to not use xbmc just as a upnp client? |
| [23:49:42] | wagnerrp: | limitations of the upnp interface |
| [23:49:59] | wagnerrp: | cant do livetv, cant use the commercial detection, cant schedule new recordings |
| [23:50:00] | rhollan: | but if I just want to browse recorded media? |
| [23:50:06] | wagnerrp: | but playback should work fine |
| [23:50:16] | rhollan: | except ISOs, I guess |
| [23:50:26] | wagnerrp: | you cannot record ISOs |
| [23:50:34] | rhollan: | but I can RIP them. |
| [23:50:43] | wagnerrp: | but thats not recorded media |
| [23:51:10] | wagnerrp: | ISOs would probably work just fine over UPNP, so long as the player device could read ISOs over UNPN |
| [23:51:25] | wagnerrp: | mythtv has no transcoding support |
| [23:51:27] | rhollan: | O.K. for the mythrtv-centric interpretation of "recorded", as from a tv stream, yeah. |
| [23:51:41] | wagnerrp: | it just pumps the raw file across the network |
| [23:51:57] | rhollan: | still strugling with mythweb/music on IE, |
| [23:52:07] | Beirdo: | it pimps the raw file... |
| [23:52:09] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [23:52:13] | kormoc: | rhollan, myth can only act like a single upnp source, it can be recorded shows or mythvideos, not both |
| [23:52:31] | rhollan: | blech, but O.K. |
| [23:52:33] | wagnerrp: | it can be both, and music, all at the same time |
| [23:52:38] | rhollan: | whee! |
| [23:52:40] | Beirdo: | it just isn't |
| [23:52:46] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, currently it can't |
| [23:52:50] | wagnerrp: | oh? |
| [23:52:55] | ** rhollan is confused ** | |
| [23:53:00] | wagnerrp: | ive heard there are issues with it only supporting one client at a time |
| [23:53:10] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, Aye, it's a toggle you have to set if you want to expose your recordings or your videos |
| [23:53:17] | wagnerrp: | but i know ive used recordings, videos, and music all over my ps3 |
| [23:53:36] | Beirdo: | all that should get fixed :) |
| [23:53:36] | rhollan: | but not sumultaneously, even to different clients, then? |
| [23:53:39] | wagnerrp: | im pretty sure thats some special thing to work with windows media center and media center externders |
| [23:53:56] | wagnerrp: | since they talk their own 'special' blend of upnp |
| [23:54:18] | wagnerrp: | i /know/ ive used all three media types on my PS3 across UPNP without having to get up from the couch to change settings |
| [23:54:26] | Beirdo: | Oh, right, I should post to the -users ML asking for people to populate the Wiki with UPNP details |
| [23:55:27] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, looks like your right, the setting is UPnP/WMPSource |
| [23:55:33] | kormoc: | and that's a toggle between recordings and videos |
| [23:55:53] | kormoc: | my mistake |
| [23:56:04] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: i think its something to do with media center extenders not actually supporting a tree view |
| [23:56:18] | Beirdo: | windows-- |
| [23:56:30] | wagnerrp: | so mythtv only allows you to display one or the other, to prevent the content being lost in a big jumbled mess |
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| [23:56:44] | rhollan: | Ah |
| [23:57:34] | rhollan: | Question: the PIN, does it protect just settings, or all access, or settings and deleting things? |
| [23:57:55] | kormoc: | which pin? |
| [23:58:01] | wagnerrp: | the PIN is a value that you have to provide if you are using UPNP detection of the backend |
| [23:58:10] | Beirdo: | the one in the grenade keeps it from going kaBOOM! |
| [23:58:10] | kormoc: | there's a settings pin, a video pin, a upnp assoc pin... |
| [23:58:21] | wagnerrp: | the frontend, perl, and python bindings will search for backends over the network |
| [23:58:34] | rhollan: | Forget UPNP for now. I am considering a myth FE instead |
| [23:58:42] | wagnerrp: | and if one is found, and the proper PIN is given, it will automatically set up your database access and connect to mythtv |
| [23:58:57] | wagnerrp: | all it does is prevent you from having to define the database host and password yourself |
| [23:59:03] | rhollan: | I'd like a way to restrict access based on not being able to delete or mess with settings |
| [23:59:08] | kormoc: | you know, coding a upnp client really really sucks |
| [23:59:17] | kormoc: | rhollan, so set a settings pin |
| [23:59:27] | wagnerrp: | is there a settings pin? |
| [23:59:30] | rhollan: | O.K. Settings PIN, then. |
| [23:59:34] | kormoc: | I believe so |
| [23:59:38] | rhollan: | What about preventing deletions? |
| [23:59:50] | wagnerrp: | theres a pin in mythtv-setup, but thats for the upnp detection stuff |
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