MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (197):

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Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-02 20:49:18 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities() [<a href='function.htmlentities'>function.htmlentities</a>]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120
Thursday, June 17th, 2010, 00:00 UTC
[00:00:11] achew22: I'm thinking about trying to set up mythfrontend in gnome and it is not going well
[00:00:18] jpabq (jpabq!~jpabq@97-123-81-103.albq.qwest.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[00:00:20] achew22: well I guess I'm not thinking about it
[00:01:10] achew22: as it stands starting mythfrontend it isn't deactivating DPMS
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[00:07:29] wagnerrp: achew22: mythfrontend is not a display manager
[00:07:44] wagnerrp: nor is it a window manager
[00:07:49] wagnerrp: nor is it a desktop environment
[00:08:26] J-e-f-f-A: achew22: and mythfrontend will only deactivate dpms when you're watching something.
[00:08:48] wagnerrp: a display manager is something to use to manage a login screen
[00:08:56] achew22: I know, screen blanking and the display is turning off when I watch stuff
[00:09:21] wagnerrp: a window manager is something that provides Z management, and a bar around the window
[00:09:28] J-e-f-f-A: achew22: are you sure it's DPMS and not a screensaver?
[00:09:45] achew22: I deactivated my screensaver
[00:09:51] wagnerrp: mythfrontend provides neither of these... and the lack of Z or focus management is going to cause problems
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[00:30:02] cavej03: justinh, are you online?
[00:30:13] cavej03: I wanted to thank you
[00:30:17] cavej03: its all up and running
[00:30:25] wagnerrp: !seen justinh
[00:30:25] MythLogBot: justinh is here and has been idle for 2 hours 42 minutes 40 seconds
[00:30:40] cavej03: oh thx for that bit noob
[00:30:44] cavej03: ill try back later
[00:30:59] cavej03: anyone give any recommendations of where to put a guide
[00:31:10] wagnerrp: for?
[00:31:20] cavej03: myth tv setup and xbmc frontend
[00:31:23] cavej03: simple guide
[00:31:29] cavej03: just might help someone like me
[00:31:32] wagnerrp: xbmc wiki
[00:31:36] cavej03: thanks
[00:31:52] wagnerrp: im sure theres at least one on there already
[00:32:19] cavej03: there are many guides but non tailored to ubuntu 10.4 and myth 23
[00:32:35] cavej03: its not gonna be complex as i dont know much but it may help some
[00:32:36] cavej03: oen
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[00:40:50] jst: Hey, guys. Just got my HD PVR. I have a Scientific Atlanta 3100HD that has a USB port on it. Where can I find a script to use with this cable box so I don't have to use an IR blaster?
[00:41:47] jst: That is the preferred way of doing things, right? USB over IR blaster?
[00:42:05] J-e-f-f-A: jst: Firewire
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[00:42:20] wagnerrp: preferred is firewire, then ir blaster
[00:42:27] wagnerrp: that USB port is likely useless
[00:42:48] wagnerrp: you can swap out your existing cable box for one that supports firewire
[00:43:12] jst: Okay. I will do that.
[00:43:36] J-e-f-f-A: jst: Are you sure it doesn't have a firewire port already?
[00:43:41] jst: Let me double check.
[00:44:28] jst: Nope, just USB.
[00:44:32] jst: It's a fairly old box.
[00:44:41] jst: I know people have hooked up USB keyboards to it and up/down keys change channels.
[00:44:48] jst: Typing channel numbers in works like a remote too.
[00:45:06] jst: But I will swap it out because I can't find information on people using this box with an HD PVR.
[00:45:27] wagnerrp: you cannot plug two USB hosts to another
[00:45:28] jst: Will any HD box with component video out and firewire work?
[00:45:31] wagnerrp: you will destroy hardware
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[00:46:00] jst: wagnerrp, just going off of this: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/20542
[00:46:09] wagnerrp: there are certain directtv boxes that you can connect to over usb, using a pair of USB-Serial adapters plugged back-to-back
[00:46:15] jst: But I see what you're saying.
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[00:46:46] jst: Is there a list of preferred HD boxes?
[00:46:51] jst: (for use with the HD PVR)
[00:46:58] jst: Or will any of them work?
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[00:48:18] J-e-f-f-A: Anything with component video out will work with the HD-PVR
[00:49:08] jst: But as far as firewire... is it standardized or do I need specific boxes?
[00:49:33] jst: i.e., will any firewire-enabled box work?
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[00:51:58] J-e-f-f-A: jst: I don't know if each and every box will work, but most do... check out the wiki page for 6200ch – that's a firewire channel changing program that supports tons of boxes...
[00:53:17] jst: Ahh, perfect.
[00:53:26] jst: Thank you.
[00:53:31] jst: Also, how the hell do I update the firmware? :)
[00:53:48] jst: I connected it to a Windows box, downloaded the latest driver, but nothing was in there about firmware...
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[01:57:59] jpabq: jst, every time you run the windows app, it checks the firmware on the box and automatically updates it, if the app has newer. The only way you can tell it did it, is by how long it takes for the app to run, and by the yellow led on the HD-PVR lighting up during the process. When you hook it back up to linux, you will see a message in your system log along the lines of "hdpvr 1–3:1.0: untested firmware version 0x12".
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[02:02:28] marc-us: Majoridiot has a good script for SA boxes to change via the firewire
[02:03:12] marc-us: will the firmware updater work in wine?
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[02:04:52] marc-us: I just wish I had j-e-f-f-A's good luck running two of the hd-pvrs on the same backend. I still can't get them to behave together. Either one works but not both at the same time
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[02:06:57] marc-us: I get a Channel(/dev/video2): SetInputAndFormat() failed error along with a Channel(/dev/video2) Error: SetInputAndFormat(31, ATSC)
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[03:38:15] wagnerrp: has this guy been drinking? http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/hardware/13347-dvb-t-usb.html
[03:39:38] Daetlus: I hope so
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[04:09:53] J-e-f-f-A: marc-us: No love with the udev rules?
[04:10:36] J-e-f-f-A: marc-us: Did the symbolic links for /dev/hdpvr0 and /dev/hdpvr1 get created? If not, you probably don't have the right serial numbers in your udev rules.
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[04:14:58] J-e-f-f-A: marc-us: Use this command to get your serial numbers: udevinfo -a -p $(udevinfo -q path -n /dev/video0)
[04:15:35] J-e-f-f-A: marc-us: (replacing video0 with the current /dev/videoX device assigned to the HD-PVRs)
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[05:33:47] rhollan: Any mythmusic folks around? It doesn't parse out artist and album when I have .flac files in ARTIST/ALBUM/TRACK_TITLE structure. what gives?
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[05:39:27] Hilikus_: when i started mythfrontend in the new ubuntu it prompted me to upgrade the DB schema. but now it says there are other clients using the DB that should be disconnected
[05:39:35] Hilikus_: how can i tell which users, or disconnect them
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[05:39:56] rhollan: Oh! I see, I can select and play with that structure, but if I search apparantly without ID3 tags, it's dumb
[05:40:33] jya: wagnerrp: it seems many people aren't able to draw the distinction between mythtv and the OS underlying it... And often that stuff like mythbuntu == mythtv
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[05:43:54] jya: skd5aner: as I mentioned in the ticket, sometimes I get corruption with AC3 stream, sometimes I don't... I would need to investigate what's going on. But provided the audio code has mostly been rewritten (not by me, I stole the code) since 0.23... debugging old code, not relevant anymore
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[06:05:15] Beirdo: yawn
[06:06:52] haffe: Sigh.
[06:06:59] haffe: I think my DVB-Tcard just broke.
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[07:14:48] Rebecca: hey wagnerrp
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[07:16:22] Beirdo: IPv6 FTW
[07:16:24] Beirdo: :)
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[07:38:53] blizzard_: morgens
[07:39:07] blizzard_: question, from time to time im having problem tuning channels
[07:39:17] blizzard_: and my logs are filled up with error messages like this:
[07:39:19] blizzard_: 2010-06–17 08:25:27.335 MythSocket(20a2320:42): writeStringList: Error, No data written on writeBlock (942 errors)
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[07:39:35] blizzard_: comes about one such error message per second
[07:41:30] blizzard_: as far as I can "read the error message" the data that the tuner process gets should be written to a file which mythtv will stream to the frontend unit
[07:41:40] blizzard_: but that data file doesnt get ne data thus cant be streamed
[07:42:03] blizzard_: correct interpretation of the error message and why do I get it and what can I do to get rid of it?
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[08:10:27] justinh: not using wireless between the frontend & backend I hope blizzard_
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[08:30:04] blizzard_: just: nope
[08:30:19] blizzard_: and these messages are on the backend
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[09:03:11] justinh: blizzard_: if you're using DVB maybe channels have shuffled around or else have updates in the transmitted tables which mythtv doesn't have yet because you need to rescan existing transports
[09:03:41] justinh: providers have a nasty habit of doing that
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[09:04:15] blizzard_: just: DVB-s
[09:04:23] blizzard_: thing is that the problem comes and goes =(
[09:04:47] blizzard_: it's like it wont really tune in from time to time
[09:04:48] justinh: so maybe you have a signal problem
[09:04:55] blizzard_: signal is good
[09:05:04] blizzard_: never under 87%
[09:05:10] justinh: if I were you I'd check using femon
[09:05:19] blizzard_: whats femon?
[09:05:21] justinh: mythtv can't be relied on IMHO
[09:05:27] blizzard_: google google google =)
[09:05:28] justinh: frontend monitoring tool for DVB cards
[09:05:43] justinh: part of the dvb-utils suite.. or dvb-apps.. whichever
[09:05:47] blizzard_: aah
[09:05:55] blizzard_: looki looki
[09:06:01] justinh: essentially it tells you the quality of the signal currently tuned to on a given device
[09:06:12] justinh: it defaults to the first adapter but can use others with the -a option
[09:06:13] blizzard_: can that run at the same time as myth? or does myth lock the device?
[09:06:21] justinh: you can run it at the same time
[09:06:25] blizzard_: niiice
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[09:06:41] blizzard_: and if I run myth with a specific channel
[09:06:44] justinh: yup
[09:06:55] blizzard_: and launch femon, it will give me the statistics of the already tuned channel?
[09:07:00] justinh: or the backend will generally keep a tuner open on the last tuned channel
[09:07:05] justinh: yes
[09:07:20] blizzard_: why havnt I discovered this handy tool earlier? =)
[09:07:34] justinh: non zero values of BER & UNC are bad. BER non-zero is less bad than non-zero UNC
[09:07:46] justinh: BER == bit error rate. UNC == uncorrectable errors
[09:07:58] justinh: also handy is the SNR number – the signal to noise ratio
[09:08:13] justinh: SNR is only estimated AFAIK & may not be absolutely representative
[09:08:38] justinh: signal level is also reported – but some drivers report full signal as a low number
[09:08:41] blizzard_: goodie, seems like I have something to play around with when I get home again =)
[09:09:36] justinh: I dunno where myth gets its signal quality info from, but it's often meaningless on my setup
[09:09:41] justinh: I only trust femon
[09:10:54] justinh: maybe time to have a look in the source :)
[09:16:21] blizzard_: =)
[09:16:40] blizzard_: but my idea of the concept is still correct right?
[09:16:41] justinh: hmm not sure dvbsignalmonitor is used.. I'll start in playback & work backwards
[09:16:51] blizzard_: myth tells the dvb card to tune
[09:16:59] blizzard_: and grabs the transportstream
[09:17:03] blizzard_: puts it in an mpeg file on disk
[09:17:07] justinh: as soon as you run mythbackend it'll tune the tuner(s)
[09:17:09] justinh: yes
[09:17:12] blizzard_: where it reads it to stream to the frontend
[09:17:24] blizzard_: uhm
[09:17:28] blizzard_: no?
[09:17:39] justinh: from the log output it seems it was trying to write the file but was failing
[09:17:39] blizzard_: will it really tune when starting mythbackend?
[09:17:43] justinh: yes
[09:17:48] blizzard_: aint it first when I activate a channel on the frontend?
[09:17:54] justinh: unless you set cards to only open on demand
[09:18:04] blizzard_: hm
[09:18:07] blizzard_: dont think I have that
[09:18:17] justinh: so it'll be using the tuner(s) all the time
[09:18:19] blizzard_: the reason of my "assumption" is that when I logon to the backend machine
[09:18:26] blizzard_: the motd runs a mythtv-status
[09:18:29] justinh: just not taking data from them
[09:18:39] blizzard_: and if none of the frontends are up and running, tuners will say "idle"
[09:18:52] justinh: no it means myth isn't using them
[09:18:59] justinh: doesn't mean they're 'free'
[09:19:03] blizzard_: yah
[09:19:07] justinh: as in mythtv isn't reading from them
[09:19:07] blizzard_: but in my world
[09:19:16] blizzard_: idle~non-tuned
[09:19:20] justinh: nope
[09:21:31] justinh: like if you use femon with no frontend running, and no recordings in progress... it'll still show you data
[09:21:44] justinh: which means *something* has the card open
[09:22:46] justinh: lsof /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0
[09:22:51] justinh: or sudo /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0
[09:23:04] justinh: "mythbacke 31424 mythtv 9u CHR 212,0 0t0 4724 /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0"
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[09:23:21] justinh: that's on my backend with no in-progress recordings & no frontend even open
[09:23:43] justinh: oops I meant sudo lsof
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[09:26:44] blizzard_: uhm
[09:26:55] blizzard_: yah but lsof just says that the device is open "locked"
[09:27:06] blizzard_: not tuned right?
[09:27:40] justinh: yes tuned
[09:27:45] blizzard_: =)
[09:28:16] blizzard_: brb, fuud
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[09:42:06] justinh: hahaha that's why I'm having problems staying on ssh
[09:42:14] justinh: somebody at work has done something silly
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[09:42:35] justinh: the network is fried. something like 2 switch ports connected together
[09:42:39] justinh: now we have to find it
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[09:46:35] justinh: heh it'd originated in this lab
[09:47:07] justinh: stupid engineer I'd set a unit up for with a fixed IP address had left it plugged into a switch & wired it all up wrong
[09:47:12] justinh: plugged into the main network
[09:51:05] justinh: now if our main switches were cleverer.. this wouldn't be a problem but...
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[09:59:37] jduggan: sounds like you need STP =]
[10:02:43] justinh: sounds like we need MOARBUDGET
[10:03:25] justinh: just to add insult to injury there are also a load of broadcasts going out which make every DVR on the subnet respond
[10:03:38] justinh: and the network goes "blurgh"
[10:04:12] justinh: our new 'plug & pray' system
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[10:06:47] justinh: so much for zeroconf happily coexisting
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[10:12:06] smegzor: Hi. My son got into the setup in mythtv frontend and now nobody can connect to the backend. Also it says No UPNP found. I have looked at the database and the backend port is 6543. I have rebooted a couple of times. When I run the frontend, I get a set up screen "select your preferred language". Any idea how to get mythtv working again?
[10:13:26] smegzor: I can't get past the 'no UPNP' problem.
[10:16:32] smegzor: I seem to have got it mostly working. Had to change the port to 3306. I thought it wanted 6543 there?
[10:17:48] justinh: what?!
[10:17:52] justinh: 3306 is the mysql port
[10:18:20] justinh: FYI upnp is only enabled on the backend if you bind mythbackend to the machine's LAN IP
[10:18:31] justinh: so if it's all on one machine there is no upnp
[10:19:27] smegzor: I can confirm that I have fixed it. It did want the mysql port
[10:19:39] justinh: yes for connecting to the mysql server
[10:19:44] justinh: the field is called MYSQL port
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[10:20:00] smegzor: my son scrambled the settings nicely and all in the name of skipping commercials.
[10:20:19] justinh: pays to have a PIN protecting the setup pages
[10:20:38] justinh: and FWIW commercial detection & skipping doesn't work too well in Europe most of the time
[10:20:57] smegzor: Actually no it wasn't labelled mysql. If it was, I would have instantly recognised it as such
[10:21:15] justinh: outside the USA & Canada shows are broadcast in patterns which make it hard for the commercial flagging to work well
[10:21:21] smegzor: I am adding the pin now :)
[10:21:34] justinh: thought it was called mysql server port
[10:22:08] smegzor: I'm in NZ where we are 1 of 2 countries that use a crazy encoding format that requires a Cray supercomputer to decode.
[10:22:14] smegzor: it is highly irritating.
[10:22:24] justinh: ruh?
[10:22:47] justinh: oh this the stupid LATM audio thing?
[10:22:50] smegzor: most of the computers in my house can't watch tv because they are not strong enough.
[10:23:08] justinh: or h.264 ?
[10:23:12] smegzor: its something to do with the audio encoding yes.
[10:23:15] justinh: ah
[10:23:40] justinh: wouldn't have thought it'd take much horsepower to decode the audio
[10:23:43] smegzor: why they decided to to not be the same as almost everywhere else I don't know.
[10:23:48] justinh: it's just a different method of encoding
[10:23:52] justinh: not complex as such
[10:23:57] smegzor: my pc is dual core with 4 gigs and can just do it.
[10:24:01] justinh: because they CAN
[10:24:05] justinh: standard def?
[10:24:17] smegzor: hd
[10:24:50] justinh: if it's h.264 -which I suspect it is – yes that's CPU intensive
[10:24:56] justinh: hence the popularity of VDPAU
[10:25:11] justinh: and soon, VAAPI
[10:25:31] justinh: otherwise you need like 2.4GHz Core2 Duo minimum
[10:25:32] smegzor: I'm not sure. All I know is it is a royal pain. Anyway now that I have restored normality and shut the little bugger out :) I'm off to watch telly :D
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[10:26:12] justinh: yeah cheers
[10:26:17] justinh: you're totally welcome
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[10:53:59] justinh: hmmm still loads of tcp errors. checksum incorrect etc.
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[11:39:54] justinh: that's it. all vendors who send out mail shots mentioning the world cup of soccer are marked as spam. die in a fire
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[11:55:51] xand: because they didn't say football?
[12:01:24] justinh: no because they mentioned it
[12:01:30] justinh: and are mailing me about it every day
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[12:17:54] toeb: is it possible to let mythweb only show a specific channel group on the listings page? Can't find any option for this..
[12:25:32] justinh: heh wonder how many hundreds of channels (too many) some people have
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[13:25:11] jst: Ugh, how annoying.
[13:25:19] jst: Can someone tell me how to update the HD PVR's firmware?
[13:25:29] jst: I've got it connected to a Windows machine with the latest driver and ArcSoft installed...
[13:25:59] jst: Do I just run "product updates" and that takes care of software and firmware?
[13:26:04] jst: It says no updates are available.
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[13:27:43] rileyp: how to make a symlink to fanart in themes/backrounds
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[13:28:39] wagnerrp: 'ln -s'?
[13:29:42] justinh: surely a better way to go about putting fanart in a theme would be to actually put it into the theme xml
[13:29:55] justinh: then it'd a) work properly and b) work in context to the content being viewed
[13:31:28] justinh: e.g.<imagetype name="fanart"> <area>x,y,width,height</area> <filename></filename> </imagetype>
[13:31:30] rileyp: Justinh I just want rid of the blank backgrounds in graphite and read about making symlink to an art folder
[13:32:34] rileyp: Its almost my bedtime so a symlink will do for tonight i can advance it a bit more when I'm more awake
[13:32:35] wagnerrp: graphite has no blank backgrounds
[13:33:04] rileyp: well the green the blue the purple screens
[13:33:19] wagnerrp: right, you can either replace those images
[13:33:22] justinh: never been a fan of random backgrounds
[13:33:34] wagnerrp: or you can use the grabbers in mythvideo to download fanart for your content
[13:33:54] rileyp: Justin nor am i really but i figure something is bether thana big blue screen
[13:34:07] wagnerrp: or you can use JAMU to download fanart for recordings
[13:34:37] rileyp: jamu is getting fanart for recordings
[13:34:57] justinh: you mean the main menu screens then?
[13:35:12] rileyp: yes
[13:35:28] justinh: wish people would say what they mean :-\
[13:35:33] rileyp: I cant se the harm in having some random fanart
[13:35:38] rileyp: sorry justin
[13:35:39] justinh: we're not mind-readers
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[13:36:46] justinh: oh dear. looks like there's no point buying a HD camcorder yet. no computer I own is up to the job of editing it
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[13:37:27] justinh: guess I could transcode rushes down to something my laptop can cope with, then replace the small files when I'm ready for the final render
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[13:38:21] toeb: justinh: most of the channels are radio channels and i only want to see tv channels ...
[13:39:12] rileyp: do i just put a symlink in the background folder to ~/.mythtv/Mythvideo/Fanart/
[13:39:23] rileyp: what would I call the link?
[13:39:27] justinh: untick the 'visible' column for the channels in the channel editor then toeb
[13:39:50] justinh: rileyp: depends how the background is defined in the theme
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[13:40:13] rileyp: backrounds are names background1, 2 and 3
[13:40:33] toeb: so this is a mythweb visible flag is only mythweb related?
[13:40:40] rileyp: I dont know if you can use an yold name or not
[13:40:45] rileyp: toed no
[13:40:58] rileyp: go into mythbackend and choose edit channels
[13:41:09] justinh: mythtv-setup or mythweb
[13:41:13] justinh: you can edit channels there
[13:41:21] justinh: oh and in mythfrontend too
[13:41:40] justinh: if you set the channel's visible flag to 0 mythweb will not show it in the listings page
[13:41:49] rileyp: Its on the second page of the each channel
[13:42:20] rileyp: or delete the channel press d and its done in channel editor
[13:42:39] toeb: i have the channels in two groups tv and radio, would the radio channels still be shown if they are invisible if I select the radio group in EPG?
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[13:44:31] rileyp: I suppose the symlink shpuld be called backgrounds rather than havingthe link inthe backgrounds folder?
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[13:46:54] justinh: toeb: no, invisible means invisible
[13:47:01] rileyp: lol
[13:47:34] justinh: you could try renumbering the radio channels instead so they appear way out of the way
[13:48:19] rileyp: justinh do i replace the backgrounds folder with my symlink or not?
[13:48:44] justinh: I don't care
[13:48:44] rileyp: justinh or do i put the symlink in the folder
[13:49:22] justinh: if you bothered to read the theme's menu.xml file you'd have gleaned how it works yourself by now
[13:49:48] rileyp: openingmenu.xml
[13:51:26] justinh: see how the imagetype named "background" is given a <filename> of "images/backgrounds" . BIG hint right there
[13:51:30] rileyp: <filename>images/backgrounds/</filename>
[13:51:35] rileyp: lol
[13:52:22] rileyp: does this mean the filename can be called anything in the folder backgrounds
[13:52:32] rileyp: Im sorry I dont understand
[13:53:57] rileyp: imagetype name="background"/
[13:57:09] justinh: I am NOT going through the process of explaining simple theme xml to you again
[13:57:28] rileyp: i dont really want you to
[13:57:42] justinh: wonder what screen element the imagetype named "background" could possibly control
[13:57:50] justinh: OH! I KNOW!!! THE MENU SELECT BAR!
[13:58:01] justinh: Oh no wait! Maybe the font of the menu text!
[13:58:23] justinh: Or maybe... JUST MAYBE... the very image used for the background of the whole screen :-O
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[13:58:58] justinh: if you want to mess with this stuff, for pity's sakes get the very smallest clue. PLEASE
[13:59:47] justinh: *note for sanity's sakes, do not edit theme xml files while drunk
[14:00:22] rileyp: Graphite randomizes all menu backgrounds between a few primary color
[14:00:22] rileyp: backdrops, but you can add your own randomized background directory by
[14:00:22] rileyp: symlinking images/backgrounds/ in the theme folder to a folder
[14:00:22] rileyp: containing backgrounds of your choice.
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[14:01:39] justinh: or edit the xml to point at a different dir
[14:01:54] justinh: (if you don't know how to make symlinks)
[14:02:11] rileyp: i can make symlinks
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[14:02:22] justinh: or hey if you dunno how to make symlinks, try man ln
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[14:09:44] J-e-f-f-A: !seen marc-us
[14:09:44] MythLogBot: marc-us is here and has been idle for 12 hours 2 minutes 47 seconds
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[14:15:19] rileyp: symlink working nicely
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[14:15:46] rileyp: startup is a little slower though
[14:16:21] marc_us: Yes... I need to open a port to the home box to ssh in and re grab the screen session my irssi is running. My ISP is difficult to deal with...
[14:16:27] rileyp: or is perceived to be by me
[14:17:12] marc_us: I wish I could see the log...  :) I'd like to see if I got any response to the comments I left last night
[14:17:34] marc_us: I'll just wait till I get home then.
[14:18:38] justinh: mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1
[14:18:56] marc_us: alright thanks!
[14:19:10] rileyp: justinh thanks for your help
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[14:19:55] justinh: marc_us: you didn't ;-)
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[14:33:07] marc_us: I did'nt because I just got back from reading the log...
[14:33:14] marc_us: HEY! I did say thanks
[14:34:42] marc_us: So J-e-f-f-A, you think I need to set up these udev rules even though the backend properly points to the right dev in the config?
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[14:37:31] justinh: wonder if wordpress has a 'convert to English' plugin
[14:37:40] justinh: http://www.newtonheathdtc.co.uk/obedience
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[14:40:06] justinh: MEH. Hacienda night @Sankeys Soap in Manchester this August bank holiday
[14:40:27] justinh: the Hacienda was the 1990s guys. Now it's a block of posh flats. Let it go already
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[14:49:38] wagnerrp: guess he really didnt want to ask his question in here
[14:50:06] wagnerrp: either that, or no one was talking in the couple seconds he was logged in, so he figured everyone was lurking
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[14:54:49] franck3d: Good Morning!
[14:56:18] franck3d: Is it possible to set up a NAS as a destination drive for my myth recordings?
[14:56:45] wagnerrp: sure, as long as it is mounted on the backend that intends to record to it
[15:01:57] franck3d: sweet! my larger storage drive died and I'm hoping to replace it and add some backup space for my other pc. Thanks for the reply!
[15:02:58] wagnerrp: normally its recommended that you just shove additional drives into your backend, and use that as a NAS
[15:03:36] wagnerrp: usually cheaper and more capable than a hardware NAS
[15:04:26] franck3d: yeah, I've just had trouble in the past getting my windows pc to see my myth drives
[15:04:56] wagnerrp: samba?
[15:05:17] wagnerrp: fairly simple to set up
[15:05:23] wagnerrp: a number of distros will basically do it for you
[15:05:27] franck3d: I geuss I just need to learn some more about that.
[15:05:48] franck3d: It's time to upgrade I'm still using .20 or .21
[15:06:25] wagnerrp: considering youre in the US, you should at least be running 0.20.2
[15:06:42] franck3d: mythbuntu has been working well for me, is there another you would suggest?
[15:07:08] wagnerrp: mythbuntu works fine, what version are you running?
[15:07:58] franck3d: I'm thinking 8.10? it has been been a while since I put it together
[15:08:10] wagnerrp: that should be 0.21
[15:09:20] franck3d: im looking forward to doing a fresh install
[15:09:33] wagnerrp: you should still keep your database and recordings
[15:10:11] franck3d: yeah, i'll back up the datatbase, but almost all of my recordings died with my harddrive!
[15:10:28] wagnerrp: no chance of recovery?
[15:11:02] franck3d: everytime the drive was being accessed by the system, the whole box would lock up.
[15:11:37] franck3d: when I went into partition magic and tried to check the disk and fix, the same thing kept happening.
[15:12:46] franck3d: not the end of the world, just frustrating. I love being the IT guy in my house but I hate problems I can't fix
[15:16:17] J-e-f-f-A: marc-us: Setting up the udev rules makes it reliable... so you're not concerned that a re-boot will goof everything up.
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[15:16:58] J-e-f-f-A: marc-us: ie: no matter which HD-PVR gets /dev/video0 and video1, the /dev/hdpvr0 device *always* points to the right box...
[15:18:06] J-e-f-f-A: marc-us: same with the PVR250 – the /dev/pvr250 symlink *always* points to the 250, even if it somehow sneaks in and gets /dev/video0 for instance... (depending on the order in which udev detects and assigns them to video devices)
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[15:18:38] J-e-f-f-A: marc_us ^^ oops, was using the 'hyphen' nic. ;-)
[15:20:02] J-e-f-f-A: marc_us: I also sent you some pm's with more detail – if you want, I could repeat them in a new PM to marc_us ... ;-)
[15:20:31] franck3d: peace out!
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[15:39:18] justinh: wagnerrp: ubuntu is alleged to 'just do samba for you' but I've yet to be able to make it work without hacking config files :-\
[15:39:48] justinh: and their basic 'go on, share this' folder sharing stuff is for er... I dunno but nothing else can see it when I enable it :)
[15:40:58] justinh: maybe other *buntu boxes could see if.. if I had any
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[16:00:16] marc_us: sorry, just got back
[16:01:44] marc_us: J-e-f-f-A, Yeah, I'm trying to nail down the problem before assigning the udev rules. Nah, not too much of an issue since the machine stays up for months at a time.
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[16:24:12] rhollan: crap. Just when I transferred all my music and started ripping more DVDs, my DVD/RW drive crapped out.
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[16:26:55] J-e-f-f-A: marc_us: trust me, the udev rules are easy to create, and will make you life SO much easier...  ;-)
[16:27:34] J-e-f-f-A: marc-us ^^ [seems your marc_us nic is gone from the channel!]
[16:27:58] J-e-f-f-A: rhollan: You mean you don't have a half a dozen laying around like I do?  ;-)
[16:28:20] rhollan: probably "somewhere"
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[16:28:23] ** J-e-f-f-A is a hardware packrat.... But recently threw out all the oldest stuff... ;-) **
[16:28:44] J-e-f-f-A: ... clever would have had a field day at my house on that day!!!
[16:29:04] rhollan: Hey, I used to still have MFM drives until recently... when I scrapped them, I kept the jumpers on them, because, you know, they were still useful.
[16:29:18] J-e-f-f-A: "Ooh! A PIII 866?!? Wow, that's faster than half my machines!!!" hehehehehe
[16:29:44] spinull: im thinking about buying a new computer, to serve my media to my 42" LCD tv
[16:30:04] J-e-f-f-A: rhollan: ha! ;-) Yeah, I've got a mini ziplock bag full of them too, much less useful in the last few years than the prior 20, eh? ;-)
[16:30:07] rhollan: At least I got my first real myth box running! Got confused for a while with DVD ripping and "StorageGroups" not allowing .iso seeking
[16:30:34] rhollan: Jeffa: still nice when you have to slave an old IDE drive
[16:30:35] J-e-f-f-A: spinull: do you already have a Myth setup?
[16:30:40] spinull: yeah
[16:30:51] spinull: its rough though
[16:31:08] spinull: amd athlon 3200+
[16:31:12] at0m: so you just need a frontend?
[16:31:19] spinull: yeah
[16:31:32] spinull: i just bought a new house
[16:31:35] spinull: move in tomorrow
[16:31:39] at0m: congrats :)
[16:31:42] rhollan: I AM wondering if it makes sense to run my mythbox in my DMZ opening up just ssh, smtp, and imaps, so it cam sink my inbound email, and serve and control remotely through an ssh tunnel
[16:31:42] spinull: thanks
[16:32:05] spinull: i want to setup the ultimate of awesomenesss
[16:32:29] spinull: i have my current mythbox in an aquarium full of mineral oil
[16:32:36] at0m: rhollan: why DMZ if you can just port-forward? isn't DMZ by definition 'all ports exposed'?
[16:32:59] J-e-f-f-A: spinull: What?!? yikes... are you overclocking it?
[16:33:25] spinull: well, i did it with an old computer first
[16:33:43] spinull: and now that i know it works, im on to buying a new computer
[16:33:46] spinull: that i will over clock
[16:34:20] at0m: why overclock your frontend? i'd try from something fanless and max. 1 disk
[16:34:22] ** J-e-f-f-A hasn't overclocked a pc in the last 10 years.... **
[16:34:33] rhollan: at0m: well yeah, but my DMZ is in the grew area between my external firewall and internal firewall: see, I keep development computers on a separate net from appliances shared by all.
[16:34:36] at0m: no need for blowers in your livingroom eh
[16:34:38] spinull: this computer is actually the backend and the front end
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[16:35:02] at0m: spinull: right, you can keep that one
[16:35:45] rhollan: the bottom line is that there are SOME machines that can be reached from the net and others that can't be reached at all without a VPN tunnel
[16:35:55] at0m: spinull: and now just add something that can play as quiet as possible
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[16:37:25] spinull: werd
[16:38:15] rhollan: Yeah, my front/back end is about 16 dbm with some quiet fans and I am thinking of a separate frontend
[16:38:15] PeaceKeeper: What is the proper way to get channel on a tuner? Scan for them or just get them schedules direct?
[16:39:04] J-e-f-f-A: PeaceKeeper: What's your source, ATSC?
[16:39:07] spinull: i think i'll use my existing box for the frontend, and use the new computer as a backend/front end and just keep it in my room
[16:39:36] PeaceKeeper: Yes.
[16:39:37] J-e-f-f-A: spinull: and put your mineral oil aquarium in your living room?
[16:39:42] spinull: yeah
[16:39:47] rhollan: LOL
[16:40:15] spinull: its booting off of a 16GB flash drive
[16:40:17] J-e-f-f-A: spinull: any pics? What's it look like?
[16:40:17] spinull: heh
[16:40:23] spinull: yeah, one sec
[16:41:08] PeaceKeeper: J-e-f-f-A: Yes they are ASTC. I also have a tuner that is getting QAM from cable.
[16:41:10] spinull: well, all i have is old pics, none since i finished it
[16:41:33] J-e-f-f-A: PeaceKeeper: IIRC, you do scan for the ATSC channels, and what gets found gets matched up via the XMLID [iirc, that's the right name]
[16:42:16] J-e-f-f-A: spinull: Do you have the HDD's and everything in there, or just the Motherboard?
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[16:42:35] PeaceKeeper: J-e-f-f-A: Nice. I will try tonight. Thank you.
[16:42:35] spinull: just the mobo and the power supply
[16:43:12] ** rhollan wanna see. waaaah! **
[16:43:27] spinull: shitty pictures
[16:43:51] spinull: its all packed up now, but when i get moved in i'll take some new ones and post them
[16:44:12] rhollan: Anyone think of using a Revo 1600 or 3610 for a FE? If so, which one? is the 1600 too underpowered or not?
[16:44:22] spinull: i was thinking about setting up some X10 security cameras and what not
[16:44:32] spinull: wrong window
[16:44:39] rhollan: X10 cameras are shit
[16:44:46] rhollan: I had three in my old house
[16:44:59] spinull: oh
[16:45:26] spinull: i know they are not secure
[16:45:37] J-e-f-f-A: that's crazy.... this isn't his machine, but one i found via my friend google: http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php
[16:45:43] spinull: yeah
[16:45:43] rhollan: mine were old-school: analog RF at 900 Mhz to a receiver
[16:46:00] spinull: J-e-f-f-A: thats what i originally saw, that made me want to do it
[16:46:09] rhollan: and I used video capture from that receiver.
[16:46:22] rhollan: shitty video. And I had to illuminate like crazy at night
[16:46:29] rhollan: neighbors thought I was nuts
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[16:46:45] spinull: maybe i'll scratch that idea then
[16:46:53] spinull: or get some better cameras
[16:47:00] spinull: POE hard wired in
[16:47:13] spinull: that sounds idea
[16:47:14] spinull: l
[16:47:45] J-e-f-f-A: "The biggest issue with this setup is that there is inadequate heat dissipation." — so why do it????
[16:48:01] spinull: thats why you need a reserator
[16:48:32] spinull: and a pump
[16:49:25] rhollan: net cams will be MUCH better... if you can stand to wire them.
[16:49:32] spinull: i love to wire stuff
[16:49:39] spinull: heh
[16:49:42] rhollan: I spent WAY too much time in attics dropping cables in my previous homes.
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[16:49:51] spinull: yeah, i used to do that for a living
[16:49:57] spinull: attics suck
[16:49:59] rhollan: There's about 1km of RG-6/U and Cat5e in a certain house in TX
[16:50:18] spinull: hopefully not the one i just bought
[16:50:24] rhollan: Allen?
[16:50:27] spinull: no
[16:50:38] rhollan: worry not, it's all plenum rated
[16:50:50] spinull: hah
[16:51:06] rhollan: These days, I am ALMOST convinced that 802.11n is good enuf
[16:51:07] spinull: i was thinking that my backend has 3 tuners in it
[16:51:39] rhollan: At least all my low b/w stuff is starting to move toward VPN over WPA/TKIP
[16:51:42] spinull: man, i have a wrt350N (which is great) but i have no N network cards
[16:52:04] rhollan: user computers go over WPA/Enterprise
[16:52:51] rhollan: guests go through a WifiDog portal and get internet and access to machines in DMZ, including backends
[16:53:27] rhollan: bbiab
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[17:03:44] wagnerrp: rhollanAfk: please watch your language in this channel
[17:05:18] J-e-f-f-A: spinull: So what's the draw, virtually silent except for the HDD and pump?
[17:05:30] wagnerrp: pump?
[17:06:32] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: he built a mineral oil aquarium for his pc – complete with a radiator and pump to circulate the oil through it to cool it – similar to this guy: http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php
[17:06:45] wagnerrp: eew...
[17:07:03] J-e-f-f-A: Yeah, my thought too...
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[17:12:49] wagnerrp: how would you maintain flow through the entire reservoir?
[17:12:59] wagnerrp: seems like you would end up with large stagnant regions
[17:13:09] wagnerrp: and a small channel that actually got any circulation
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[17:16:10] J-e-f-f-A: $126 for a radiator.. yikes...
[17:16:23] wagnerrp: what kind of radiator
[17:16:43] wagnerrp: i mean you could probably go to a junk yard and make off with an automotive radiator for a couple bucks
[17:16:57] J-e-f-f-A: the one that company (pugetsystems) is offering for their mineral oil cooling 'kit' as an option...
[17:17:17] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: right... that's why I think they're crazy to be able to charge that much!  ;-)
[17:17:22] spinull (spinull!~echosyp@75.111.200.238) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[17:17:26] J-e-f-f-A: ... and that people would actually pay that!
[17:19:30] JimmyNeutron: Can someone help me get MythTV to work w/ my Hauppauge 950Q tuner USB card? I was able to get the tv tuner to work with TVTIME app. So it's not the hardware that is an issue.
[17:19:45] wagnerrp: what are you trying to record?
[17:20:04] JimmyNeutron: I'm just trying to watch some TV.
[17:20:15] JimmyNeutron: and not record anything....at least not yet.
[17:20:20] wagnerrp: from what source?
[17:20:30] wagnerrp: you mention tvtime, which means analog
[17:20:32] JimmyNeutron: USA-Cable...I have Comcast
[17:20:38] wagnerrp: but you do not want to be using analog with that tuner and mythtv
[17:21:10] JimmyNeutron: So MythTV cannot work w/ Analog cable?
[17:21:23] wagnerrp: mythtv can work with analog cable just fine
[17:21:46] wagnerrp: we just prefer to use mpeg encoders, which are vastly easier to set up for recording
[17:21:54] JimmyNeutron: ok...thats good news so far.
[17:22:06] wagnerrp: your tuner is what is called a 'framegrabber'
[17:22:20] wagnerrp: meaning the tuner just makes the raw video frames available in shared memory
[17:22:33] wagnerrp: requiring mythtv to grab them in real time, and compress them using the CPU
[17:22:47] wagnerrp: and do the same thing with the audio stream
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[17:23:02] wagnerrp: its a pain
[17:23:23] wagnerrp: as opposed to mpeg encoders, which just pull a pre-compressed mpeg stream straight out of the card
[17:23:26] JimmyNeutron: I needed something that can work on my laptop and figure USB was my best option
[17:23:57] rhollanAfk is now known as rhollan
[17:24:06] wagnerrp: the recommended devices for analog capture over USB are the PVR-USB2, and the HVR-1950, both of which have mpeg encoders
[17:24:07] rhollan: language? Meh?
[17:24:13] rhollan: anyway got to head out
[17:24:21] rhollan is now known as rhollanAfk
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[17:25:35] JimmyNeutron: Thanks! I'll read more into the HVR-1950 and PVR-USB2
[17:26:04] JimmyNeutron: In the meantime, you have any idea why MythTV isnt working w/ my Hauppauge 950q? I'm running Ubuntu 10.04
[17:26:05] J-e-f-f-A: JimmyNeutron: Keep in mind that your analog cable isn't likely to be around forever...
[17:26:41] wagnerrp: are you actually recording analog cable? or are you capturing video off your STB?
[17:26:58] JimmyNeutron: Yeah..I only got cable tv service because it reduces the cost of my cable internet service by over $100
[17:27:20] JimmyNeutron: The coax cable is going straight into the Hauppauge 950Q
[17:28:00] JimmyNeutron: so, there is no STB in between...thats why I can only pickup the analog cable channels
[17:28:09] JimmyNeutron: since I'm not going through a digital box/STB
[17:29:08] J-e-f-f-A: JimmyNeutron: my friend google turned up this hit: http://www.kernellabs.com/blog/?p=863
[17:30:38] JimmyNeutron: J-e-f-f-A, Thanks! I read that article too.
[17:30:58] JimmyNeutron: didn't help much, but I'll read it again in case I overlook something
[17:31:13] JimmyNeutron: Thanks wagnerrp and J-e-f-f-A
[17:33:53] devinheitmueller: JimmyNeutron: what exactly is your issue? Channel scanning? Tuning?
[17:34:39] wagnerrp: i expect its more basic setup issues
[17:35:04] JimmyNeutron: devinheitmueller, I can't get MythTV to work. I'm able to scan for channels and pick up the cable channels, but when I try to watch it, it display a message...I think it says "Please wait"...than returns back to the main menu
[17:35:18] devinheitmueller: JimmyNeutron: are you running a recent v4l-dvb snapshot?
[17:35:19] wagnerrp: check your backend logs
[17:35:36] devinheitmueller: There were fixes made to the 950q driver to make it work properly with MythTV.
[17:35:36] wagnerrp: there should be an error there indicating why it failed to open
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[17:36:21] JimmyNeutron: devinheitmueller, I'm not sure what you mean by v4l-dvb snapshot...if you're referrring to the drivers for the 950q, than I believe I am because if I use "tvtime" app, I can watch TV
[17:36:39] wagnerrp: hes saying there were specific fixups necessary to make it work with mythtv
[17:36:42] JimmyNeutron: wagnerrp, By default, where are the logs kept?
[17:36:45] devinheitmueller: JimmyNeutron: No, I mean the current LinuxTV drivers. There were fixes I made a few months ago, and if you don't have those then it will work with tvtime but not Myth.
[17:36:49] wagnerrp: if you dont have those, its very possible tvtime would work and mythtv would not
[17:37:03] wagnerrp: JimmyNeutron, usually in /var/log/ or /var/log/mythtv/
[17:37:05] ** J-e-f-f-A hears an echo. ;-) **
[17:37:10] JimmyNeutron: devinheitmueller, Does Ubuntu Lucid 10.04 have the fix already?
[17:37:17] devinheitmueller: Probably not. I would have to check.
[17:37:38] JimmyNeutron: Is there a way for me to check?
[17:37:48] JimmyNeutron: some files, or CLI that I can enter?
[17:37:51] devinheitmueller: Not really (without looking at the driver code)
[17:37:56] JimmyNeutron: ok
[17:38:06] wagnerrp: there wouldnt be any revision printed out in dmesg?
[17:38:12] devinheitmueller: wagnerrp: No.
[17:38:23] devinheitmueller: Generally speaking, the v4l-dvb driver versions are useless.
[17:38:31] devinheitmueller: (the version *numbers* that is)
[17:39:02] devinheitmueller: http://linuxtv.org/repo/#mercurial
[17:39:05] devinheitmueller: JimmyNeutron: ^
[17:39:29] JimmyNeutron: ty...I'll look at that
[17:39:31] blizzard_: 2010-06–17 19:39:04.184 RingBuf(/export/seven/tv/3108_20100617193856.mpg) Error: Invalid file descriptor in 'safe_read()'
[17:39:34] blizzard_: what does that mean?
[17:40:05] wagnerrp: it failed to access the file for some reason
[17:40:24] wagnerrp: although it should say that outright if it failed to open it
[17:40:24] blizzard_: snowball:~# ls -al /export/seven/tv/3108_20100617193856.mpg
[17:40:25] blizzard_: -rw-r--r-- 1 mythtv mythtv 0 2010-06–17 19:38 /export/seven/tv/3108_20100617193856.mpg
[17:40:27] devinheitmueller: The changes were committed om March 6th, and were merged upstream in 2.6.35.
[17:40:28] blizzard_: =/
[17:40:33] blizzard_: ext3
[17:40:40] blizzard_: local filesystem
[17:40:43] wagnerrp: is that your frontend or backend?
[17:40:48] blizzard_: backend
[17:40:57] blizzard_: so it's all local
[17:40:58] devinheitmueller: JimmyNeutron: So yes, you will need to install the latest v4l-dvb tree for that card to work properly with MythTV.
[17:41:14] wagnerrp: do you have any other logs to explain why it failed to write to that file?
[17:41:20] wagnerrp: during recording
[17:41:24] blizzard_: well
[17:41:29] blizzard_: this is during recordigng
[17:41:33] blizzard_: trying to watch live tv
[17:41:39] JimmyNeutron: devinheitmueller, Ok. TY! I'll give that a shot.
[17:41:45] devinheitmueller: ok.
[17:41:58] devinheitmueller: If it still doesn't work, hollar (I'm the guy to talk to about that card)
[17:42:04] wagnerrp: the backend will not read the file it just wrote, unless its trying to stream to a remote frontend
[17:42:14] wagnerrp: or the frontend otherwise forced streaming rather than local access
[17:42:24] blizzard_: wag, yes, im trying to do that
[17:43:04] wagnerrp: you should still have logs somewhere explaining why you have an empty file and a failed recording
[17:43:18] wagnerrp: pastebin the logs, maybe well see something you didnt
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[17:44:23] blizzard_: http://pastebin.org/337604
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[17:44:50] blizzard_: seems to be something when it marks it as used
[17:45:00] blizzard_: rows 3,4
[17:45:21] blizzard_: femon says:
[17:45:22] blizzard_: status SCVYL | signal d940 | snr d4cd | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
[17:47:13] wagnerrp: i would guess youre trying to start on an invalid channel
[17:47:35] wagnerrp: but i see no real indication of error
[17:47:36] blizzard_: shouldnt be
[17:47:44] blizzard_: lemme try some other channels as well
[17:47:51] wagnerrp: maybe turn off 'quick tune' on that card
[17:48:17] blizzard_: I do have quick tune turned on I think
[17:51:22] blizzard_: its getting 0 MB on the channels I try
[17:51:33] blizzard_: 2010-06–17 19:50:35.765 Expiring 0 MBytes for 4408 @ Thu Jun 17 19:00:00 2010 => The E! True Hollywood Story: Eva Longoria Parker
[17:51:37] blizzard_: 2010-06–17 19:50:35.766 Expiring 0 MBytes for 3160 @ Thu Jun 17 19:30:00 2010 => Simpsons "Del 128 säsong 6"
[17:51:40] blizzard_: 2010-06–17 19:50:35.767 ProgramInfo(): Updated pathname '':'' -> '4408_20100617194750.mpg'
[17:51:43] blizzard_: 2010-06–17 19:50:35.769 Expiring 0 MBytes for 3140 @ Thu Jun 17 18:00:00 2010 => Mammut
[17:51:46] blizzard_: those where the channels I tried
[17:51:48] blizzard_: no data for none of em
[17:52:02] blizzard_: they are on different satellites and this happend over night
[17:52:11] blizzard_: so shouldnt be that the frequency moved =/
[17:53:15] blizzard_: brb, gonna hit the backend with a shovel
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[18:11:52] marc_us: I are back.
[18:14:19] wagnerrp: oh no! run for your lives!
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[18:17:18] skd5aner: zombies?
[18:17:37] skd5aner: or velociraptors?
[18:18:21] marc_us: zombies are in fashion at the moment. Let's go with that
[18:18:37] marc_us: ARGH! Send more brains..
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[18:53:03] justinh: heh one thing this channel could do with more of
[18:53:17] skd5aner: zombies?
[18:53:21] skd5aner: or velociraptors?
[18:53:24] justinh: brains
[18:53:31] justinh: present company excepted of course
[18:53:32] skd5aner: oh :( too bad
[18:53:55] wagnerrp: i think would could use more velociraptors
[18:54:09] wagnerrp: something programmed into mythlogbot to attack people
[18:54:14] skd5aner: that's the spirit!
[18:54:15] wagnerrp: VROIP
[18:54:54] justinh: heheheh had an email complaining my site is sending emails to somebody. well, I said.. on the 6th of May they decided to subscribe, and sent confirmation that they wanted to be sent news updates.. and these emails contain info on how to change subscription options.. man some people are *so* thick
[18:55:19] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: That would be a good one
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[18:56:10] iamlindoro: maybe even better than GDIAFOIP
[18:56:55] wagnerrp: you know... scifi movies would imply that one could actually be done
[18:57:12] wagnerrp: get someone to hack into the power grid, and somehow send too much power to home home, causing short circuits and fires
[18:57:24] justinh: arghh Sky Sports to go pay tv .. whether or not that means in freeview spectrum remains to be seen. OFCOM need a bullet for allowing this
[18:57:36] skd5aner: God D***it I Am F***ing Over It, Peace ?
[18:57:49] justinh: go die in a fire over IP :D
[18:58:06] justinh: has a certain ring to it
[18:58:20] wagnerrp: so you get to pay to listen to a swarm of wasps?
[18:58:38] justinh: though that might include customer who buy the powered over ethernet stuff made by the company I work for
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[18:59:06] justinh: it emerged yesterday that some PoE injectors er.. don't 'like' our kit
[18:59:23] wagnerrp: active or passive?
[18:59:30] justinh: active
[18:59:40] skd5aner: I remember a drunk guy got mad at me a really long time ago for no reason, and I'll never forget how he told me off: "Go drink bleach and die", I thought that was a pretty good way to tell someone off at the time
[19:00:32] justinh: I downed a whole bottle of car cleaning fluid in one when I was a kid. my dad should never have put it in an old milk bottle.. and it looked like milk
[19:00:49] justinh: needless to say I never drank from an unmarked bottle again
[19:02:29] justinh: hmmm digitalspy has nothing on the sky sports pay move. interesting
[19:02:31] skd5aner: Now you only drink from the ones with a skull and crossbones clearly marked on the outside
[19:02:48] wagnerrp: mmmm... moonshine
[19:03:08] justinh: cachaca later methinks :)
[19:04:01] justinh: ahhh Sky Sports is leaving freeview to be replaced by... Sky Three +1
[19:04:09] justinh: yay another +1 channel!
[19:04:11] justinh: :-\
[19:06:02] justinh: IMHO there should be rules against outfits who hold mux space doing away with them & putting something else in its place. Use it as it is, stick with it – or lose it & the bandwidth available to everyone else is increased
[19:06:40] marc_us: zombies, dinosaurs, disembodied brains.... Imbibing dangerous chemicals.. Now that is an IRC channel
[19:07:10] justinh: it's too cheap to broadcast in this country as it is. All you need is a couple of air-headed presenters fronting a show, a premium rate phone number & loads of annoying ads
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[19:09:08] justinh: apparently mux space on freeview goes for as little as 20k a year
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[19:56:15] justinh: whee cachaca time!
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[20:11:14] justinh: what what what?! somebody is seriously running mythbackend on a sheevaplug appliance? That beats all
[20:11:25] wagnerrp: mailing list?
[20:11:29] justinh: yeah
[20:11:40] wagnerrp: i keep trying to tell people not to do that
[20:11:53] sphery: justinh: yeah, gotta wonder where the MySQL database is
[20:11:57] justinh: to 'save power', presumably run from an ant treadmill in his back yard
[20:12:14] justinh: prolly sited the backend near his food stockpile
[20:12:30] sphery: and the trying to use EIT only once in a while to save power versus spending $20 for a Schedules Direct subscription is annoying, too
[20:12:47] justinh: buying a sheevaplug ain't savin' no moneys
[20:12:50] sphery: he says he's aiming for wind/solar power in the future
[20:13:15] justinh: I was shopping around looking for embedded linux appliances to use as squeezeslave clients but er..
[20:13:48] wagnerrp: well you know... audio playback is far easier than what the frontend and/or backend do
[20:13:53] justinh: $100 for a junk toy makes squeeze's own stuff seem attractive
[20:14:08] justinh: considering I'd need to add a control panel & display
[20:14:30] justinh: need MOARJOGGLR
[20:15:23] wagnerrp: i would be interested to hear what he actually gets during his EIT scans
[20:15:42] wagnerrp: may it has to be running constantly because the EIT data only provides one show ahead of time
[20:16:18] justinh: and personally, I think if anybody is worrying about electricity provision in future – and looking to provide their own.. teevees will be the very last of their concerns
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[20:16:51] justinh: esp. if there's any weight behind NASA's latest reckoning about solar flares in a couple of year's time. sheesh
[20:17:17] wagnerrp: presumably hes going to be watching his tv on his laptop... powered by exercise bicycle
[20:17:27] justinh: er what teevee?
[20:17:51] justinh: if there's ever that big a power shortage I somehow don't think they'll keep the masts juiced up
[20:17:54] justinh: :D
[20:18:11] wagnerrp: why not?
[20:18:26] wagnerrp: thats a /tiny/ generator needed to run those things
[20:18:28] justinh: I dunno, I just figure it'll be last priority to keep TV on
[20:18:38] wagnerrp: i mean youre talking about a few tens of kilowatts
[20:18:43] wagnerrp: a few dozen horsepower
[20:18:58] sphery: though the Internet might be high priority--thus Sen Lieberman's plan to make someone from DHS in charge of it
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[20:19:33] wagnerrp: sphery: theyve been around for most of a decade, were going to have to put them in charge of something one of these days
[20:19:39] sphery: heh
[20:20:47] sphery: yeah, and think just how much the rest of the world would love for the Internet at large (by the fact that much of the Internet-controlling infrastructure is in the US) is controlled by a single government beaurocrat in the US DHS
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[20:25:49] skd5aner: hmmm, my sbe wont start up after an apt-get update and reboot
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[20:26:07] skd5aner: hd-pvr issue – mythbackend: Problem with capture cards: Card 1 failed init
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[20:34:51] justinh: ruh? can squeezeslave only run on a squeezeserver box? trying to connect to localhost all the time. meh
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[20:38:21] skd5aner: stupid, it switched from /dev/video0 to /dev/video1 :P
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[20:43:16] justinh: oh stupid stupid alsa
[20:43:29] justinh: can I not just address my front & rear outputs separately?
[20:44:51] justinh: I don't want no steenkin analogue surround
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[20:55:06] Beirdo: Oh, I am loving IPv6
[20:56:26] sphery: I keep saying I'm going to switch, but each time I consider it, I find that I don't know which approach I need to use for the switch.
[20:57:05] Beirdo: Well, I have one tunnel with static IPv4 on my linode
[20:57:08] wagnerrp: not to mention the fact that its non-native is only going to make things slower
[20:57:18] sphery: wagnerrp: I think he only gets a couple hours, too
[20:57:20] Beirdo: and one with dynamic IPv4 and NAT at home
[20:57:40] wagnerrp: a couple hours is absolutely worthless for mythtv
[20:57:53] Beirdo: it's native in my home network...
[20:57:57] sphery: wagnerrp: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/440399#440399
[20:58:00] Beirdo: just not over the internet :)
[20:58:09] Beirdo: well... from me to the internet
[20:58:19] sphery: wagnerrp: don't knock it--all this extra trouble he's going through will save him $20/year--recurring!
[20:58:30] Beirdo: once it hits the other end of my tunnels, it's IPv6...
[20:58:48] Beirdo: but... apache being IPv6-friendly... I ProxyPass mythweb
[20:58:50] Beirdo: :)
[20:58:54] wagnerrp: sphery: turns out the wikiscripts have been broken since mid may
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[20:59:02] Beirdo: hey NAT... you are irrelevant!
[20:59:09] sphery: wagnerrp: the bindings part? or the wiki part?
[20:59:12] wagnerrp: bindings
[20:59:24] wagnerrp: some dolt put in an endline character into their description
[20:59:37] wagnerrp: and my error handling was not working as intended
[21:00:21] sphery: Beirdo: so you have native IPv6 on your home lan. When hitting the Internet, it tunnels IPv4 in your network and through your gateway to the Internet?
[21:00:31] Beirdo: yup
[21:00:34] ** sphery knows nothing of IPv6... As likely shows **
[21:00:53] Beirdo: I have an IPv6 gateway which tunnels over IPv4 to a tunnel broker
[21:01:09] Beirdo: right now the gateway HAPPENS to be my old mythbox
[21:01:10] Beirdo: :)
[21:01:12] bjd: HE?
[21:01:19] wagnerrp: Beirdo: are you using a tunnel broker? or are you just routing it through your linode?
[21:01:24] Beirdo: I have HE for the one for the linode
[21:01:24] sphery: any reason why you have 2 IPv4 tunnels? Is that the only way to do some dynamic and some static IPv4 addresses?
[21:01:34] wagnerrp: ive got an account for HE, but ive never gotten around to setting it up
[21:01:35] Beirdo: and SIXXS for home (over ayiya)
[21:01:46] wagnerrp: for some reason, i couldnt use SIXXS
[21:01:52] bjd: my cisco router handles my tunnel stuff
[21:01:56] bjd: works grand =)
[21:01:58] justinh: hmm I've got a spare USB soundcard I could always use instead
[21:02:02] sphery: see, this is /exactly/ why I haven't switched, yet
[21:02:02] skd5aner: Beirdo – mind if I ask why? I mean, I get the need for IPv6 eventually, but I'm sure you aren't running out of address space on your LAN... just did it for the heck of it?
[21:02:08] sphery: I'm lost in all this dicussion
[21:02:11] justinh: this is crazy though. I've got analogue outputs I never use :-\
[21:02:19] Beirdo: using two tunnel brokers... I could use HE for all, but my stupid firewall won't let me pass the proto 41
[21:02:42] Beirdo: skd5aner: to be able to ssh to home... and web services...
[21:02:52] Beirdo: even though I'm behind NAT
[21:02:56] skd5aner: elimination of NAT?
[21:03:06] Beirdo: yeah, mostly :)
[21:03:10] justinh: grr I hate ALSA
[21:03:13] skd5aner: hmmmm
[21:03:17] justinh: all audio on linux infact. and windowsa
[21:03:24] Beirdo: the IPv4 is still NAT
[21:03:36] Beirdo: but to actually SSH home, I have to SSH from an IPv6 host
[21:03:51] Beirdo: hence tunnelling to the linode too
[21:04:11] skd5aner: well, more power to ya... :)
[21:04:17] sphery: so I'd need an "incoming" tunnel for ssh'ing in?
[21:04:18] Beirdo: I can get to the linode via IPv4, then to home via IPv6. No need for dynamic DNS :)
[21:04:55] sphery: are the IPv6 addresses tied to MAC addresses or can you change them around?
[21:04:59] Beirdo: well, sphery... you'd need to be able to get onto IPv6 from where you are sshing from
[21:05:14] Beirdo: so... if work (or whatever) does IPv6, no problem
[21:05:15] Beirdo: heh
[21:05:28] skd5aner: so, you're limited from your incoming network then?
[21:05:33] sphery: well, for me work (when outside the home network) is generally hotels and airports
[21:05:38] Beirdo: the IPv6 addresses are assigned to you in a very large chunk by the tunnel brokers
[21:05:41] wagnerrp: 'proto 41'?
[21:05:56] Beirdo: proto 41 is IPv6-over-IPv4 tunnelling
[21:06:11] ** sphery reads up on RFC 3053/Tunner Brokers **
[21:06:21] Beirdo: at home, I have a /48, on the linode, a /64
[21:06:26] sphery: maybe I should read 5572, too
[21:06:36] Beirdo: don't forget... IPv6 is 128 bit addressing
[21:06:47] Beirdo: I won't be running outta addresses any time soon
[21:07:25] wagnerrp: sure, but each machine gets their own /96 or /64 or something ridiculous
[21:07:43] Beirdo: hhe
[21:08:03] Beirdo: well, my network at home has more available addresses than all of IPv4
[21:08:07] hadees (hadees!~hadees@64.132.24.100) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:08:17] sphery: "direct encapsulation of IPv6 datagrams within IPv4 packets is indicated by IP protocol number 41" — heh, I heard that somewhere before
[21:08:18] Beirdo: and the linode has a subnet the size of all of IPv4
[21:08:21] Beirdo: all routable
[21:08:22] wagnerrp: by several quadrillion fold
[21:08:37] sphery: (like 3 minutes ago)
[21:09:01] Beirdo: but so far, so good
[21:09:23] Beirdo: so now, my mythweb is on a public IP (although IPv6) and DEFINITELY htdigest :)
[21:09:30] Beirdo: oh, and even better...
[21:09:34] sphery: yay, transcode unrecoverable error...
[21:09:47] Beirdo: you can run SSL on each IPv6 address as virtual hosts in apache
[21:09:58] Beirdo: how's THAT for sweet?
[21:10:50] wagnerrp: cant you do that anyway?
[21:10:57] kormoc: Server Name Indication
[21:10:58] skd5aner: not very if it can't be accessed from <1% of remote networks out there :P
[21:11:02] Beirdo: as the virtual hosts can be IP based instead of name-based
[21:11:03] wagnerrp: wasnt there some .... yeah, that thing
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[21:11:19] Beirdo: SSL on name-based virtual hosting is an issue.
[21:11:31] wagnerrp: although i think the stock SSL implementation in apache cant handle that
[21:11:41] skd5aner: or I should say, can't be accessed from 99%+ of remote networks out there
[21:11:45] kormoc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication#Browsers
[21:12:39] Beirdo: well yeah
[21:12:54] Beirdo: there is that. stop bursting my bubble :)
[21:12:55] Beirdo: hehe
[21:13:05] skd5aner: I see a network as only being valuable, if it can... you know... network
[21:13:06] skd5aner: ;)
[21:13:46] skd5aner: Beirdo, I know... no harm meant... I think it's kinda cool either way what you've accomplished, you're just way ahead of the curve and world doesn't seem to care to catch up
[21:13:48] Beirdo: well, I don't care, I will have my ways to do what *I* want it to do
[21:13:57] Beirdo: they will eventually
[21:14:24] Beirdo: beirdobot will likely be IPv6-capable soon :)
[21:14:25] Beirdo: heh
[21:14:48] Beirdo: not sure if Freenode does it yet (pretty sure they do), but OFTC does, AFAIK
[21:15:35] Beirdo: yes, freenode does too
[21:15:55] MaverickTech (MaverickTech!~MaverickT@213.171.132.58) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:16:33] skd5aner: Hey, I'm just jaded – my educational background was in telecommunications and networking tech... so I spent a good deal of time talking about "theory" of IPv6 and that it'll role out eventually... hasn't really changed much in ~10 years
[21:17:08] Beirdo: yeah, but it will happen eventually
[21:18:17] Beirdo: static IPs FTW
[21:19:36] skd5aner: yay for NAT, CIDR, subnetting, etc
[21:19:49] justinh: oh man oh man
[21:19:49] Beirdo: screw NAT
[21:19:53] Beirdo: yay for the rest
[21:19:57] skd5aner: those are what have really postponed IPv6 for the last 8 years
[21:20:08] justinh: so you can remove pulseaudio on ubuntu, but you cannot restart alsa#
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[21:20:10] skd5aner: just playing devil's advocate
[21:20:21] justinh: alsa stuff is still there but there's no control for it
[21:20:29] Beirdo: justinh: ain't it grand?
[21:20:36] justinh: ARGHHHHHHHH I HATE UBUNTU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[21:20:37] skd5aner: justinh: I've basically disabled pulse, way easier and invasive than trying to rip it out
[21:20:40] justinh: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
[21:21:09] justinh: the service is still there. NO controls
[21:21:25] Beirdo: justinh: Yeah, Canonical has done some things that enrage me at times too
[21:22:01] justinh: so what.. to test a .asoundrc I have to reboot?¬!
[21:22:07] dustybin: justinh: do a full Slackware 13.1 install, easy
[21:22:21] justinh: prolly the new way
[21:22:41] justinh: whut? ps -ef |grep alsa. nothing
[21:22:56] justinh: am I missing something here?
[21:22:58] Beirdo: apt-get install FedoraCore
[21:23:01] Beirdo: hehe
[21:23:08] Beirdo: probably, but I dunno what
[21:23:29] justinh: sound in mythfrontend is still working.. so er.. how?
[21:23:30] kormoc: justinh, what were you expecting?
[21:23:37] kormoc: alsa isn't a userland app
[21:23:42] skd5aner: justinh: this is what I did – http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7821384&postcount=8
[21:23:43] justinh: oh yeah
[21:24:12] kormoc: justinh, use alsactl to do all the config stuff
[21:24:16] justinh: I apt-get remove'd it
[21:24:28] skd5aner: that used to break stuff? maybe not anymore
[21:24:35] skd5aner: I don't know...
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[21:25:07] kormoc: Mmm... 8 core commflagging
[21:25:19] Beirdo: niiice
[21:26:17] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: really nice... /me is jealous!!!
[21:26:19] sphery: my single-core (Athlon XP 2000+/512MB RAM) commflagging still tends to finish about 6-months or more before it needs to
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[21:26:40] sphery: with 8-cores, it would be 6-months and a few hours early
[21:26:41] justinh: meh. all I wanna do is output a few stereo channels through different outputs
[21:26:44] kormoc: My mac mini can't commflag h264 1080i content while playing back
[21:26:52] justinh: well, $5 USB soundcards it is, then
[21:26:55] kormoc: so I haven't been commflagging
[21:27:04] kormoc: I just got the os x job queue running on my desktop
[21:27:06] justinh: screw alsa. screw ubuntu
[21:27:10] kormoc: so it's catching up, running 8 jobs at once
[21:27:14] skd5aner: "real-time" commflagging still does a pretty dang good job for me on 2 cores
[21:27:31] justinh: I'll just reboot to make sure I've really not broken anything
[21:27:42] skd5aner: but 8 is 4 times better than 2 ;)
[21:28:10] justinh: oooo dear
[21:28:40] J-e-f-f-A: skd5aner: Mine did fine too, until I went to HD and HD-PVRs, now it has trouble keeping up...
[21:28:44] kormoc: 2.8 ghz xeon is only commflagging at 23 fps
[21:28:45] sphery: skd5aner: don't think of it that way... think of it as 8 being only 2 places left of 2
[21:28:53] justinh: heh naw.. nowt broke
[21:28:54] kormoc: my 1.8 ghz core2duo has no hope of keeping up
[21:29:07] justinh: seems my asound file was being ignored though
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[21:29:21] justinh: time to ebay some cheap-as-anything usb audio thingies
[21:29:24] sphery: justinh: gotta restart any ALSA client after updating it
[21:29:27] ** J-e-f-f-A is going to have to investigate if his MB will accept an x8 cpu... ;-) If not, maybe it's time to upgrade?!?  ;-) hehehehe **
[21:29:30] sphery: so, like mythfrontend
[21:29:41] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, I have two 4 core xeons
[21:29:57] justinh: sphery: sod it, I'll just get more devices
[21:30:03] justinh: easier than having to deal with alsa hell
[21:30:03] sphery: I think the old saying applies here... "Don't put all your cores in one basket."
[21:30:11] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: nice. I'm running an Athlon 64 x2 6000+ now – used to be super-fast, now it's left in the dust!
[21:30:16] sphery: yeah, alsa's a bear
[21:30:45] justinh: gimme 4 DACs I can address
[21:30:48] justinh: that's all I want
[21:30:54] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_pro . . . 8-specs.html ;)
[21:30:54] sphery: J-e-f-f-A: but the 6000+ at 3GHz is better for playback than an 8-core 2.2GHz system
[21:30:55] justinh: 4 PCM outputs. simples
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[21:31:28] justinh: but no, alsa comes preconfigured with some retarded inbuilt surround schemes for people who like to avoid living in the 21st century & using analogue surround
[21:32:16] Jay2k1: speaking of surround, did you guys watch france vs mexico?
[21:32:27] justinh: vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
[21:32:30] justinh: er no ;)
[21:32:42] Jay2k1: that was the first game where i actually was able to enjoy surround sound
[21:33:01] Jay2k1: that stadium seemed to be full of mexicans somehow
[21:33:06] justinh: great. what's it like when it sounds like you're living in a beehive ?
[21:33:17] Jay2k1: everyone of them brought their loud voices
[21:33:34] Jay2k1: oh i mean the vuvuzela level was very low
[21:33:39] Jay2k1: compared to all the other games
[21:34:04] Jay2k1: i had almost given up hope
[21:34:35] Jay2k1: had to smile though as someone came up with a vuvuzela filter patch here the other day
[21:35:50] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: Nice machine... ;-) how much did that set you back?
[21:35:56] justinh: go socceroos go!
[21:36:20] Beirdo: J-e-f-f-A: if ya have to ask, too much for you? :)
[21:36:23] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, ~$2200
[21:36:25] J-e-f-f-A: sphery: I think my disks are still to fragmented for smooth h.264 playback, it stutters from time to time, even with VDPAU.
[21:36:31] skd5aner: yea, the broadcasters are starting to filter them out too
[21:36:35] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: ooh... nice. ;-)
[21:36:45] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, if you're commflagging, turn that off and see
[21:37:04] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, my mac mini when commflagging can't do 1080i h264 playback with vdpau, but idle it can just fine
[21:37:10] Jay2k1: yeah... and this was the first game where i actually had quite some sound from the rears
[21:37:10] sphery: J-e-f-f-A: heh, I find the cp to a new disk, and reformat the old works great for unfragmenting (that plus having more file systems than you'll ever have recordings)
[21:37:12] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, which is why I commflag on my desktop now
[21:37:16] J-e-f-f-A: sphery: I hope to resolve that this weekend when I re-build the system on FC12 or 13, and upgrade to 0.23-fixes.
[21:37:17] Jay2k1: before, they've been very quiet
[21:37:41] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: Ah, I shall try that. ;-)
[21:38:01] skd5aner: VDPAU still gives me interlacing-like artifacts, especially on tickers or graphics, but other than that it allows me to watch all my h.264 content with no sweat
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[21:38:13] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: I would have thought that VDPAU would have been able to 'survive' even those radical conditions...
[21:38:18] kormoc: skd5aner, so enable a vdpau deinterlacer?
[21:38:23] sphery: Jay2k1: "sound from the rears"... You had some Mexican food before the match to get in the spirit?
[21:38:35] ** Beirdo switches mythweb to using clean blue. I like. **
[21:38:37] skd5aner: kormoc: it is
[21:38:55] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, as did I, but reality disagrees in my case
[21:39:00] skd5aner: it's not just on interlaced content either, it's on 1080i or 720p
[21:39:09] kormoc: skd5aner, 1080i is interlaced :)
[21:39:15] skd5aner: I know :P
[21:39:28] skd5aner: my point is the behavior is identical on interlaced and progressive conent
[21:39:29] skd5aner: content
[21:39:33] kormoc: ahh, fair 'nuff
[21:39:36] skd5aner: :)
[21:39:37] J-e-f-f-A: Question about firewire – I'm only using it for channel changing, but is the box dumping raw video out, and perhaps causing my firewire controller to flood the system with interrupts?
[21:39:54] rhollan: J-e-f-f-A MPEG2 TS, generally
[21:39:57] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, unlikely
[21:40:04] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, you have to request the video to be sent
[21:40:16] J-e-f-f-A: Ok, was just wondering... ^^ good to know kormoc. ;-)
[21:40:50] rhollan: FWIW, I am capturing 1080i video from a DCH3200 with a lowly Athlon 2xxx and it works fine
[21:40:51] Beirdo: wagnerrp: you like python... could you convince the authors of twisted to add IPv6 support? :)
[21:40:56] sphery: heh, I just went to MythWeb setup to change to clean blue and found that if you go to the channel editor before you go to the EPG (i.e. the EPG hasn't pulled the channel icons), you get a bunch of warnings about the channel icons being missing.
[21:41:11] sphery: probably not too important--maybe not worth fixing, either
[21:41:24] kormoc: sphery, worth a ticket at least
[21:41:31] sphery: wow, that /is/ clean
[21:41:41] skd5aner: I'd like to learn how to eventually use xrandr to display video at it's native resolution rather than outputting a constant resolution, anyone do that?
[21:41:49] Beirdo: oooh, I need to go get me some channel icons
[21:41:53] Beirdo: I forgot all about that
[21:42:16] sphery: kormoc: OK, but I hate piling unimportant things on your todo list.
[21:42:24] rhollan: skd5aner: why? If you have an LCD, it has a preferred resolution. Use that, and scale (or not) as you like
[21:42:47] skd5aner: rhollan: because it's a question of if I want myth/nvidia to scale or my TV to do the scaling
[21:43:15] kormoc: sphery, I might just silence the warnings, but it if 'breaks' the layout, we should fix it :)
[21:43:23] rhollan: skd5aner: yeah, I realized that. Do you really think your TV will scale that much better than your box?
[21:43:25] Beirdo: I'll have to run the icon downloads when I get home
[21:43:45] skd5aner: rhollan: great question... I don't know?
[21:43:59] kormoc: rhollan, depends on the tv, my Samsung did an *amazing* job of that, my sylvania is horrible
[21:44:00] sphery: doesn't break the layout (though I don't see icons in there even after I go to the epg)
[21:44:14] sphery: so I think it's just a "loading a full channel object" thing
[21:44:20] kormoc: huh
[21:44:21] sphery: and we're not actually using the icons there?
[21:44:22] rhollan: I let my mobo with nvidea graphics scales pretty good on my LG HD LCD TV
[21:44:24] skd5aner: rhollan: I would have to imagine that my TV's got a pretty dang good scaler in it, being a Pioneer Plasma Elite
[21:44:27] sphery: maybe not
[21:44:29] kormoc: sphery, the listing's page?
[21:44:44] sphery: the icons are on the EPG, but not in MythWeb Settings|TV|Channel Info
[21:45:21] kormoc: Yeah, they won't be
[21:45:24] kormoc: need to overhaul that page
[21:45:37] rhollan: skd5aner: perhaps, but even if you could use xrandr, menu overlay would have to be scaled for each res, no?
[21:45:38] kormoc: settings haven't gotten much love lately
[21:46:21] rhollan: skd5aner: also realize, that TVs have shitty resolution, compared to computer monitors. I'd trust the computer's scaler, generally.
[21:46:37] Beirdo: rhollan: watch the language, please
[21:46:45] skd5aner: rhollan: I'm a bit ignorant on how it's handled, but I assumed the menu's would output at a single res, which could be the native monitors resolution, and that video could be set at it's resolution, no?
[21:47:13] rhollan: menus output at a fixed res: as you scale, things will get bigger or smaller, I presumt.
[21:47:30] kormoc: skd5aner, you can set myth to use alt reses for playback, aye
[21:47:51] kormoc: skd5aner, that said, the new OSD will be rendered at playback res not source res anymore
[21:47:55] skd5aner: kormoc: I thought I remembered that setting, but does anyone around here do that?
[21:48:04] rhollan: fixed font, more than fixed res. Oh! Hadn't though of different playback res
[21:48:06] kormoc: skd5aner, so playback at 1080 will have a better/sharper OSD then 720
[21:48:18] kormoc: (on a 1080 screen)
[21:49:55] rhollan: Why is my language so bad?
[21:51:06] rhollan: I have a question about Storage Groups. I had to change the video dir to get ISOs to ripp intact correctly (since SGs don't allow seeking (yet)), but if I rip a non-ISO or transcode one, where will it go?
[21:52:06] Beirdo: 17:46 < rhollan> skd5aner: also realize, that TVs have <CENSORED> resolution,
[21:52:27] rhollan: gee, picky. O.K.
[21:52:50] Beirdo: yes... "no profanity" really means none :)
[21:52:51] sphery: s/picky/family friendly/
[21:53:00] rhollan: O.K. sorry
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[21:53:48] rhollan: Though xkcd 751 comes to mind.
[21:53:50] Beirdo: I know, sometimes it just slips out :)
[21:55:20] rhollan: Anyone know if a Revo 1600 or 3610 would make a nice FE? Or experience with ION graphics in general?
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[21:57:10] Beirdo: I know people have had success with some ION systems
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[22:01:59] skd5aner: is it still required to run myth at 100x100dpi?
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[22:03:24] wagnerrp: Beirdo: sure, because i have sway with all things python, now having used it for about a year
[22:03:32] wagnerrp: to be honest, ive never used twisted
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[22:05:13] Beirdo: wagnerrp: yeah, I was being silly :)
[22:05:21] Beirdo: twisted is the basis of buildbot
[22:05:43] Beirdo: and I'd really like to be able to have slaves connect via IPv6, but I'll live without it
[22:06:27] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119026
[22:06:33] wagnerrp: i thought your bots were in C
[22:06:49] Beirdo: that will be my new internal network firewall and IPv6 gateway :)
[22:06:56] Beirdo: yes. buildbot is something I use
[22:07:04] Beirdo: beirdobot I wrote :)
[22:07:12] Beirdo: too flippin similar
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[22:08:19] rhollan: single band, single radio, though...?
[22:08:24] Beirdo: so?
[22:08:28] Beirdo: so is my DSL modem
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[22:08:48] rhollan: I run data on 2.4Ghz g and media on 5.0 GHz n
[22:08:49] Beirdo: the wireless will be used to hit the intarweb
[22:08:57] Beirdo: media will be on gige
[22:09:07] Beirdo: wired. :)
[22:09:26] Beirdo: and should I want to run it to another room... THEN I'll buy some N gear
[22:09:33] rhollan: Oh, I plan to serve media on 802.11n, beyond the directly wired displays
[22:09:46] Beirdo: I quite likely will later
[22:09:50] Beirdo: but that can wait
[22:10:10] wagnerrp: you dont have problems with 802.11 dropouts?
[22:10:11] rhollan: I'm looking at a netgear WNDR3700 myself
[22:10:39] rhollan: dual band, dial radio, guest and lan SSIDs
[22:10:57] rhollan: so you can restrict guests to the WAN side only (or not)
[22:11:05] rhollan: and it does WPA/Enterprise/
[22:11:25] Beirdo: wagnerrp: me? not yet
[22:11:35] wagnerrp: no, rhollan
[22:11:39] Beirdo: heh
[22:11:50] highzeth: Ive been keepin an eye on 3rd party firmware on the linksys 610n, that might be our next upgrade
[22:12:13] rhollan: My though is to use wirelessly conected equipment via WPA/TKIP and wirelessly connected computers via WPA/Enterprise on the guest net
[22:12:19] rhollan: wagnerrp: not much
[22:12:23] rhollan: not at 5.0 GHz
[22:12:29] rhollan: but range is a bit tight
[22:13:29] rhollan: highzeth: I've been playing with OpenWRT on and off, but never really liked it.. to hard to admin easily, and I don't want to have to be an iptables guru at home (I do enough of that at work)
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[22:13:43] rhollan: bricked a WNDR3300 that way to
[22:13:49] wagnerrp: netgate doesnt seem to have any 5GHz minipci cards...
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[22:13:57] noaXess: hey all. hey wagnerrp
[22:14:15] highzeth: I get that, using tomato on the good old wrt54gl here atm. solid
[22:14:25] rhollan: I use an 802.11n 5.0 GHz to ethernet bridge
[22:15:05] rhollan: yeah, I gort a wrt54gl to use as a F/w at one point... even have OpenWRT on it, but never planned to use the radio.
[22:15:15] ** Beirdo throws a tomato at highzeth **
[22:15:28] rhollan: So, for now, I use the cable modem external FW and a WNDR3300 internal FW
[22:15:40] wagnerrp: ive got a couple of those, theyre only serving as access points right now
[22:16:05] rhollan: my "public" stuff is inbetween, and the myth box sits there securely: smtp, imaps, and ssh open only on the internet side
[22:17:12] highzeth: mm we live in farmville, no ax points in sight unless I bring out the pringle-tenna, that said the radio has been solid on all the wrt54gl we got running here
[22:17:14] rhollan: I was thinking of using the WNDR3700 for WPA/TKIP for 2.4GHz g and 5.0 GHz n for trusted device data and media and WPA/Enterprise for laptops that log into the LAN
[22:17:58] rhollan: And a 54GL on a distant 2.4 GHz channel as a captive portal to let guests browse the internet and media I serve on my public lan via HTTP
[22:18:12] noaXess: how can i add a single channel.. want to add a HD channel here in switzerland.. HD_SUISSE..
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[22:27:41] highzeth: rhollan: sounds like a plan
[22:29:19] rhollan: highzeth: yeah, the only issue is whether it makes sense to have my mythbackend on the public side of my network. I have Internet <-> firewall -<-> myth BE, mail server, etc <-> firewall <-> internal computer net.
[22:29:32] Beirdo: highzeth: you live in farmville? Facebook must die!
[22:30:02] rhollan: still need to authenticate to get to it remotely, of course, but I like streaming MY mising to MYSELF at work.
[22:30:12] highzeth: Beirdo: I know, there are so many odd folks walking around here, I have no idea who they are or what they do, but they seem to be happy, so we leave em alone
[22:30:13] rhollan: s/mising/music/
[22:30:40] Beirdo: highzeth: and they keep planting weird crap too, I bet
[22:31:11] highzeth: you can only imagine
[22:32:02] highzeth: now is the season of fishville too, makes it even more obscure
[22:32:29] highzeth:
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[22:35:03] highzeth: those guys, they are on a totally different level of crazy. stand in a river for 12 hours a day, freezing cold just to catch a salmon? geez
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[22:46:04] highzeth: rhollan: streaming as in via flash you mean?
[22:47:16] rhollan: highzeth: pretty much
[22:48:04] Beirdo: highzeth: yeah, but yummy
[22:48:59] highzeth: well, you could setup a reverse proxy on the fw, nginx fi, makes it easier if you got other boxes you wanna serve content from internally(webmail/music/whatnot)
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[22:49:46] highzeth: Beirdo: oh sure, nothing beats wild salmon, and Im not complaining, we earn a decent buck from them renting fishing spots, I just dont get the river fishing. =)
[22:51:24] rhollan: highzeth: I guess, but I distinguish between my "serious computers with sensitive stuff on them" network, and the "computers with media on them: network. The latter is between two firewalls with one facing the internal "serious" net, and the other facing the internet.
[22:52:16] highzeth: rhollan: sure, we are only talking about pinning a tiny hole for a single port tho =)
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[22:54:32] rhollan: highzeth: and that one port becomes many: smtp, imaps, etc. I used to have a host on my internal net configured that way, but it had my daughter's account on it, and ssh punched through to it, and she chose a weak password, and it got taken over. Lesson Learned.
[22:55:22] Beirdo: yeah.... enforce sensible password policies
[22:56:30] rhollan: Bierdo: it's more than that. I am not comfortable with a publicly accessable machine on a net where I have private stuff. Only hole I will punch there is for VPN, and that's if it's really necessary
[22:57:01] highzeth: Im only talking about reverse proxying http(s) here, I do hear where you are coming from
[22:57:18] Beirdo: yeah, that too.
[22:57:33] Beirdo: but definitely even then.... enforce a password policy
[22:57:41] Beirdo: or someone will own your VPN too
[22:57:58] rhollan: Beirdo: I use client certs to secure my VPN
[22:58:01] highzeth: ack on vpn, it pains me that android dont have openvpn support un-rooted
[22:58:27] rhollan: pissed that android doesn't support WPA/Enterprise, now that you bring the subject up.
[22:58:56] rhollan: My only real security concessions are WPA/TKIP for DEVICES (like printers) that live on the private LAN side.
[22:59:05] highzeth: aye
[22:59:19] rhollan: user controlled devices, like my daughter's laptop use WPA/Enterprise
[22:59:37] rhollan: So, if it gets lost or stolen, and someone drives up, I just kill that cert.
[23:00:01] rhollan: otherwise, if I used TKIP, I'd have to reconfigure the whole net.
[23:00:41] Beirdo: orrr.
[23:00:54] Beirdo: keep your private data on a machine NOT networked
[23:01:35] rhollan: That's where my CA private key lives.
[23:01:38] rhollan: :-)
[23:02:00] rhollan: Beirdo: not really possible, what with cookies for shopping sites and all.
[23:03:20] rhollan: I am concerned about frontends on the private lan that run on laptops that need the BE DB password to function. Are "limited" frontends supported? (Yeah, killing the client cert will work eventually)
[23:03:27] Beirdo: bet your life would be a lot less stressful if you switched to a Luddite lifestyle
[23:03:43] rhollan: Stress? This is fun!
[23:04:15] GreyFoxx: rho: No they are not
[23:04:27] GreyFoxx: the FE's will require access tothe Backends Database
[23:04:28] rhollan: My day job involves proxying https and filtering viruses and "objectionable" content. Yes, I am a MITM, but a trusted one.
[23:04:49] rhollan: GreyFoxx: but write access? if they don't rip?
[23:04:55] GreyFoxx: yes, write access too
[23:05:00] rhollan: why?
[23:05:04] rhollan: what needs to be updated?
[23:05:06] GreyFoxx: because it writes to the database
[23:05:07] Beirdo: rhollan: trusted by whom? Doubt the users are on that list
[23:05:34] GreyFoxx: the FE touches many parts of the database for a variety of things
[23:05:39] rhollan: Beirdo: browsers. They import the CA that resigns the certs provided to us
[23:05:55] Beirdo: ick.
[23:06:02] rhollan: GreyFoxx: yes, but why does it need to write. Is R/O access not possible.
[23:06:08] GreyFoxx: No it is not
[23:06:36] rhollan: Beirdo: the idea is that you trust the box that MITMs the https traffic because you control it (or your employer as is more likely the case).
[23:06:55] rhollan: And if you don't want your boss snooping your banking, don't do it at work.
[23:07:03] Beirdo: heh. *I* as the end user rarely if ever trust my employer
[23:07:18] rhollan: Beirdo: fair enuf.
[23:07:20] Beirdo: yeah... exactly
[23:07:50] rhollan: Still, employers like it to keep viruses out of https and smtp STARTTLS sessions.
[23:08:05] Beirdo: and to keep their employees from using tor
[23:08:19] rhollan: Beirdo: easier ways to do that.
[23:08:42] rhollan: The nifty thing is that we can do stuff like enforce crypto algorithms regardless what the browser might be willing to accept.
[23:08:44] Beirdo: heh. firing them works
[23:08:52] GreyFoxx: man I've got thousands of emails to go through *sigh*
[23:09:00] GreyFoxx: this is what I get for going without for a couple days
[23:09:04] Beirdo: GreyFoxx: yeah, that can really suck
[23:09:39] rhollan: GreyFoxx: why exactly is DB writing necessary? A mysql limitation? Or an implementation limitation?
[23:10:03] GreyFoxx: rhol: because myth is written in such a way that many of the FE's functions write data to the database
[23:10:05] GreyFoxx: '
[23:10:08] GreyFoxx: Bookmarks
[23:10:09] Beirdo: s/limitation/design choice/
[23:10:15] GreyFoxx: video scanning in mythvideo
[23:10:21] GreyFoxx: mp3 scanning in mythmusic
[23:10:29] GreyFoxx: schedulign recordings
[23:10:32] GreyFoxx: etc etc
[23:10:45] GreyFoxx: It is not written to avoid access to the database
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[23:11:21] rhollan: Right, but none of those are necessary for playback only access. (Well, bookmarks, perhaps, but that's a convenience and not necessity). I guess what you mean is that it was not designed for restricted use.
[23:11:39] GreyFoxx: rholl: Many other things WILL break
[23:11:48] GreyFoxx: those are just the off the top of my head stuff
[23:12:09] GreyFoxx: hell mythprotocol is 100% without authentication
[23:12:25] GreyFoxx: so someone could access the databsae settings (gets and sets) through that without any PW anyway
[23:13:03] rhollan: sounds like it was not thought through. Not surprising. An area for improvement: consider I may not WANT my kids to schedule recordings without my O.K.
[23:13:18] rhollan: Oh well. Hindsight is 20/20
[23:13:21] GreyFoxx: It was not considered a nescessity
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[23:13:32] rhollan: fair enuf
[23:13:51] GreyFoxx: rholl: Them not scheduling is a user education issue :)
[23:14:02] GreyFoxx: just like "don't delete my shows" is a user educatioon issue
[23:14:06] Beirdo: there is parental locking of some sorts, no?
[23:14:12] GreyFoxx: not everything requires access levels and authentication :)
[23:14:36] GreyFoxx: Beirdo: There is for not showing certain videos and such with a PIN being entered
[23:14:48] Beirdo: ah
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[23:15:16] Beirdo: as I have absolutely no need for such a feature, I never looked into it in much detail
[23:15:21] rhollan: GreyFoxx: no, I was rather thinking of when a guest comes over with their laptop, spends the night in the spare bedroom, and wants to browse my DVD/CD collection while trying to fall asleep.
[23:15:22] GreyFoxx: I recently set that for my Porn, since now my daughter has playdates and the kids are fascinated by myth
[23:16:02] GreyFoxx: they are amazed at having all of that video/media available from everyTV in the house on demans :)
[23:16:04] Beirdo: yeah, you don't need the daughter's friends' parents knocking at the door
[23:16:40] GreyFoxx: I have a segregated guest wireless lan :)
[23:16:58] GreyFoxx: "guests" don't get to touch my shit unless they wire in without my seeing it :)
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[23:17:08] rhollan: GreyFoxx: me too, with a captive portal that only allows HTTP/S
[23:17:14] Beirdo: GreyFoxx: language :)
[23:17:19] GreyFoxx: pfft :)
[23:17:43] kormoc: Do jobs in the jobqueue get canceled on move to the delete recgroup?
[23:18:03] GreyFoxx: like commflag and transcoding jobs that haven't happened yet ?
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[23:18:26] kormoc: Aye
[23:18:42] GreyFoxx: hmmmm I've never tested that, but I would assume they do since I regularly delete stuff before it has a chance for those to trigger yet my jobqueue is currently empty
[23:19:58] kormoc: Well, I think they do, but if you un-delete them they don't get un-cancelled
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[23:28:07] rhollan: A! Live TV Playback to a FE generally requires DB writes since it requires reserving a recorder.
[23:29:24] ** kormoc blinks **
[23:30:10] wagnerrp: and a number of other things
[23:31:14] wagnerrp: basically, there would be hundreds of calls you would have to alter, additional functions to add to mythproto, and tons of testing needed to make the frontend viable for read-only
[23:31:47] wagnerrp: there has been talk of moving the database into an embedded one, running in mythbackend
[23:32:02] wagnerrp: which would be your best bet for ever seeing the necessary changes to make that possible
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[23:33:10] rhollan: I'm looking at Myth Protocol now.
[23:33:53] rhollan: It looks like blocking out entire sets of commands might be feasable, that deal with remotely initiated deletion, etc.c
[23:34:27] rhollan: Of course, that still wouldn't cover OWNERSHIP of recordings (IOW, ability to delete everything or nothing), but it would be a start.
[23:34:28] wagnerrp: you first need to add authentication
[23:35:05] wagnerrp: the only authentication in MythTV is the PIN for parental control, which can be easily bypassed with mysql access
[23:35:19] wagnerrp: and the PIN for the UPNP autodetection, which can be easily bypassed through the mythxml web pages
[23:35:34] skd5aner: hmmmm, I figured out why I'm getting that interlaced look via VDPAU output – I don't think it's VDPAU's fault, it's the fact that I'm telling it to output a 720p signal, but nvidia is scaling up to a 1080i signal and sending that to the TV
[23:35:36] wagnerrp: there is no real security in mythtv what-so-ever
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[23:36:27] wagnerrp: i dont think the nvidia drivers will ever default to an interlaced output
[23:36:46] skd5aner: wagnerrp: TV reads it as a 1080i input
[23:36:54] rhollan: wagnerrp... well no. MythTV would need IDENTIFICATION (which would have to be authenticated, of course), if it dealt with the idea of content ownership: who recorded and could delete what. But, if all you need is authentication, you can do that with a VPN outside of Myth, and restrict the command set on each such VPN, A hack, but feasable.
[23:37:02] wagnerrp: even for composite/svideo outputs which are always interlaced, you still need to force the drivers to enable those outputs
[23:37:21] skd5aner: it's a bit older, and the HDMI ports only accept a limited number of signals
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[23:37:46] kormoc: wagnerrp, I believe with dvi/hdmi output set to auto detect the mode and output type of 1080 will go interlaced
[23:37:52] skd5aner: it's a 720p plasma, and another negative is it doesn't accept the native resolution via HDMI – yes, it's kind of sucky by today's terms
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[23:39:27] skd5aner: here's the input signals I can accept of HDMI – http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1885478
[23:40:37] skd5aner: So, the native resolution is 1360x768, the closest signal I can get to that is 1280x720 (720p) – since it's a 720p set, I figured it's probably best to output in 720p all the time...
[23:40:59] skd5aner: yet, EDID was telling nvidia that it could accept a 1080i signal as it's "highest" resolution
[23:41:23] skd5aner: nvidia calls it "frontend" and "backend" resolutions
[23:41:37] skd5aner: or so says nvidia-settings
[23:41:54] rhollan: yeah, what the TV will accept, and it's native res.
[23:41:56] rhollan: typical.
[23:42:30] skd5aner: Well, I can't send the native res over HDMI, I could over VGA
[23:43:07] rhollan: video driver limitation?
[23:43:10] skd5aner: TV
[23:43:39] rhollan: you can't send 1360x768 over HDMI or the TV won't accept it?
[23:43:57] skd5aner: the TV will not accept it over HDMI
[23:44:04] skd5aner: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php . . . #post8421197 and the first post
[23:44:14] rhollan: BAD TV! (yes, you mentioned that0
[23:44:35] skd5aner: yes, pioneer's "best" in 2006 :P
[23:44:59] skd5aner: but, they definitely screwed the pooch on this one...
[23:45:34] skd5aner: anyway – now the question is do I disable EDID and tell it to always send a 720p signal, and eliminate the GPU scaler?
[23:46:06] rhollan: In that case I would send it 1080i/p if you have it (assumung it interpolates O.K.) and either 720p or upsampled 720p->1080i depending on who has the better scaler.
[23:46:15] rhollan: my bet would be 720p
[23:46:37] rhollan: you don't want to upscale and downscale.
[23:47:16] skd5aner: rhollan: unfortunately, that's my problem – It seems like myth deinterlaces the initial content via VDPAU, then the GPU scales it back to an interlaced signal, and often times I get interlacing like artifacts on tickets, teaser graphics, etc...
[23:47:34] skd5aner: including original progressive content... because nvidia re-interlaces it :P
[23:48:09] rhollan: I guess that would mean an xrandr hack to match source resnd let the TV scale.
[23:48:20] skd5aner: and sometimes it fluctuates, so it almost acts like the interlacing isn't correct and the TV's deinterlacer (which works great on other devices/content) can't properly deinterlace what's coming out of hte GPU
[23:48:33] rhollan: WHAT the nvidia driver always interlace progressive content to a TV?
[23:48:48] skd5aner: in this instance, it would appear so
[23:49:05] rhollan: what does it interlace 720p to? 1440i??
[23:49:22] skd5aner: because 1080p is not a valid mode UNLESS I explicitely told it to do 1080p@24, and I don't want that either
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[23:50:10] rhollan: blech then you are adding telecine 3:2 pulldown to al lthat mess.
[23:50:11] skd5aner: rhollan – the TV is always receiving, at all times (in that configuraion), at 1080i signal via HDMI – when nvidia's scaler is turned on
[23:50:20] rhollan: Is using VGA so bad?
[23:50:28] skd5aner: Maybe not, to be honest
[23:50:39] skd5aner: sound is not an issue
[23:51:02] rhollan: I know HDMI is sexy and all, but all that scaling only to have the TV scale AGAIN is gonna hurt
[23:51:09] kormoc: yeah
[23:51:14] skd5aner: there was some reason, when I first got the TV, that I didn't use VGA... I think it is because VGA is the only input on the TV that I can't use the advanced image settings on maybe?
[23:51:25] kormoc: find out?
[23:51:46] rhollan: probably. Advanced image settings probably require digital video
[23:51:53] rhollan: But, myth will do image processing.
[23:51:57] skd5aner: yup – that's what it was – "- VGA input does not have the same tweakable settings as the other inputs, but can do 1360x768 resolution, but at a sacrifice of picture quality."
[23:52:00] rhollan: brightness, contrast.
[23:52:14] wagnerrp: i dont know why it wouldnt
[23:52:26] wagnerrp: it all has to be converted into the same format before being displayed on the screen
[23:52:28] rhollan: then you have to compare the digital artifacts to the VGA input.
[23:52:36] rhollan: use a really good VGA cable.
[23:52:48] skd5aner: wagnerrp: just the facts man, I'm not a pio engineer, but I can tell you for sure that the advanced picture menu is greyed out when switching to the VGA input
[23:53:02] kormoc: what things are in there?
[23:53:18] kormoc: or rather, why can't you set it on the linux side and call it good?
[23:53:29] skd5aner: kormoc: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php . . . #post8564316
[23:53:40] rhollan: I think the issue is VGA analog video qualitu
[23:53:43] skd5aner: kormoc: yea, it might be worth a shot
[23:54:18] skd5aner: rhollan: yea, well – I was using component out on this TV until about 4 months ago when I got a VDPAU card
[23:54:32] skd5aner: or, component in rather :
[23:54:34] skd5aner: :)
[23:55:20] ** rhollan remembers shopping for his first component in TV. Damn salesdroid kept trying to push Sony "Colorstream" on my, but could not verify that it did, in fact, mean YCbCr **
[23:55:41] skd5aner: the easiest answer is buy a new TV, but there's already 1 other room that gets that right first and I don't have the cash to buy the quality of TV I'd like to replace this one with
[23:56:00] wagnerrp: rhollan: not that it would have done you much good anyway
[23:56:04] skd5aner: brb
[23:56:15] wagnerrp: traditional component video is YPrPb
[23:56:28] kormoc: skd5aner, so buy them one at a time?
[23:56:45] rhollan: I thought P was digital and C was analog. In any case, it was what I wanted.
[23:57:36] rhollan: skd5aner: made the best of what you have, knowing that some day it will get relegate to second class status.
[23:57:46] rhollan: My bet is VGA, or even component.
[23:58:21] rhollan: remember it could be worse: S-Video or *shudder* composite.
[23:58:37] rhollan: ya can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

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