Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, April 19th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:21]

sphery:

fresswolf: you didn't properly set up your video source... You /must/ name the video source (in mythtv-setup) /before/ you configure the XMLTV stuff for the video source.

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[00:10:41]

fresswolf:

sphery: I did name the video source "xmltv" before

[00:12:21]

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[00:16:15]

sphery:

fresswolf: at some point when mythtv-setup was actually running mythfilldatabase --manual, there was no video source name specified

[00:16:32]

sphery:

fresswolf: should be able to just reconfigure it

[00:16:40]

sphery:

or just rename .xmltv to xmltv.xmltv

[00:19:32]

fresswolf:

sphery: thanks, it seems to be doing something now. the fetching for the xml data takes about 10 minutes i think

[00:26:38]

[R]:

wtf... i can't get my remote working

[00:26:46]

[R]:

it used to show up as a "keyboard" in /dev/input but now its not

[00:31:40]

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[00:31:57]

RedDragon:

Can I ask you guys a question? How long would take a guy to populate the whole universe with his off-springs if he fertilizes all the women of the planet and their daughters and so on.

[00:34:17]

[R]:

lol

[00:34:54]

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[00:55:14]

kormoc:

RedDragon: Depends on if you limit it to realistic physical stats or not

[00:57:08]

RedDragon:

there are. line all the woman and let's buggie!

[00:57:38]

fresswolf:

sphery: ok now I have all the channels listed under channel editor, but under Input Connections there it says: Starting channel: Please add channels to this source

[00:58:26]

[R]:

they are in the channel editor... but are they assigned to the correct source?

[00:59:57]

fresswolf:

[R]: yes

[01:00:10]

[R]:

then it woudn't say add channels

[01:00:16]

[R]:

did you try scrolling in the list?

[01:00:31]

fresswolf:

there is a button called "Fetch channels from listings source", which does nothing

[01:00:38]

[R]:

you already have the channels

[01:01:11]

kormoc:

RedDragon: According to Manswers, the world record for a man is 8 big o's a day, and with fertility rates of around 55% per year per woman, you can figure it out

[01:02:00]

fresswolf:

[R]: you mean in the dropdown where it says "Please add..."? I can't choose anything there with my arrow keys

[01:02:04]

kormoc:

although, there's a dramatic decrease in the male fertility rate after the first one per day

[01:02:33]

[R]:

fresswolf: then the channelsa re associated with the source

[01:02:47]

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[01:04:03]

fresswolf:

[R]: hm sorry I don't understand. what do you think is the cause of the problem?

[01:04:24]

[R]:

you didnt associate the channels to the source

[01:06:21]

fresswolf:

I have set up a "Video source", which I named "xmltv". Under "Input connections" I have /dev/video0 associated with source: "xmltv". Under "Channel Editor" the channels all have "Video Source: xmltv"

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[01:08:06]

[R]:

i *REALLY* hate braindead parsers

[01:08:13]

[R]:

how hard is it to strip out a comment at the end of the line

[01:18:20]

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[01:19:38]

fnogarin:

Hi Folks, Silly question, has the mysterious zero-byte files issue ever been solved? I still find that I have to reboot my backend a few times a week to get it working again because it records empty files....

[01:20:04]

[R]:

check the logs

[01:25:46]

fnogarin:

[R]: I see a lot of this in my backend logs: [mpeg2video @ 0x11ff6c0]Missing picture start code

[01:26:16]

[R]:

thats nothing

[01:26:17]

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[01:26:58]

fnogarin:

[R]: K, still looking

[01:27:24]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i think you missed a couple duplicate tickets

[01:27:43]

sphery:

wagnerrp: wanted to keep the list short...

[01:28:09]

sphery:

I have a feeling there's a real problem there, but it's not a single location... needs a real fix

[01:29:03]

sphery:

but, yeah, I considered just posting a couple links to make it less stressful for anyone who decides to read them, but figured I'd go comprehensive, instead.

[01:29:08]

fnogarin:

[R]: Ok, found it, this snip shows last good record, and next one failing. http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1867078

[01:29:55]

sphery:

fnogarin: 0-byte files is due to the capture carding giving MythTV absolutely no data to write

[01:30:03]

sphery:

i.e. you have a low-level driver/hardware problem that we can't fix

[01:30:24]

[R]:

x#

[01:30:24]

[R]:

2010-04–18 05:00:19.542 DevRdB(/dev/video0) Error: Poll giving up

[01:30:34]

sphery:

the /only/ fix in MythTV is to not show the show as recorded, but the problem is when do you consider it as not having recorded

[01:30:43]

sphery:

so it shows it as "

[01:30:52]

sphery:

recorded everything the card gave us", which is nothing

[01:31:44]

fnogarin:

sphery: ok, so this dedicated capture hardware is to blame?

[01:31:46]

sphery:

and, yeah, the line that [R] quoted shows that's the case

[01:32:05]

sphery:

fnogarin: or the drivers for it or the configuration of it

[01:32:13]

sphery:

#

[01:32:14]

sphery:

2010-04–18 05:00:20.281 MPEGRec(/dev/video0) Error: Device error detected

[01:32:26]

fnogarin:

what about: 2010-04–18 05:00:13.946 [mpeg2video @ 0x4efd6c0]ac-tex damaged at 15 5

[01:33:24]

sphery:

that's just saying the stream it's sending isn't as expected, which could be a problem at the broadcaster's end or a signal issue or I/O wait or ...

[01:33:36]

fnogarin:

Ok, so lets assume Im screwed becuase I have to buy different hardware, can you reccomend a duck-tape fix? a script to rebboot the capture card or something? its on the usb bus....

[01:33:37]

sphery:

but it won't stop a capture

[01:33:59]

sphery:

I'd say it's more likely your system configuration than your hardware

[01:34:02]

iamlindoro:

tape goes on ducts, not ducks

[01:34:12]

fnogarin:

iamlindoro: Nice ;-)

[01:34:17]

iamlindoro:

and true :)

[01:34:25]

sphery:

drivers/system config/or possibly even MythTV config

[01:34:39]

fnogarin:

sphery: careful you are giving me hope – lol

[01:34:40]

iamlindoro:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape

[01:34:42]

sphery:

but until you fix the low-level problem, you can't make it work

[01:34:43]

[R]:

fnogarin: a lot of my hdpvr problems went away when i got a decent usb controller

[01:34:57]

sphery:

MythTV is high level, so if the lower levels are broken

[01:35:44]

fnogarin:

Hmm. ok, so I am taking you all very serously, I can easily install a brand new USB card in the machine and try that..

[01:36:09]

sphery:

is it a USB capture card?

[01:36:26]

sphery:

I didn't read scrollback, so I have no idea what type it is

[01:36:34]

fresswolf:

Is it possible to set the starting channel in the database manually? because I'm stuck with bugs

[01:37:03]

sphery:

fresswolf: you really need to do the video sources portion of http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[01:37:16]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: obviously youve never experienced the pure joy of seeing a duck running around with duck tape on it

[01:37:39]

iamlindoro:

imagine he wouldn't run far

[01:37:43]

sphery:

fresswolf: i.e. when you misconfigured things the first time through, you added garbage to your DB that will break things--even if you duct tape a fix into the database for now

[01:37:53]

iamlindoro:

sphery, suh, it's duck tape. ;)

[01:37:55]

iamlindoro:

er duh

[01:38:00]

sphery:

typo

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[01:38:22]

sphery:

I also misspell "Kleenex" as "tissue" sometims...

[01:38:38]

wagnerrp:

ugh... guy on mythtvtalk recommending using RAID for recording directories

[01:38:49]

iamlindoro:

and "xerox" as "copy" and "google" as "search?"

[01:39:07]

wagnerrp:

because trying to record to a dozen independent 80GB U320 drives can be a hassle

[01:39:10]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I hope he's at least recommending a single giant one instead of a bunch of them

[01:39:41]

sphery:

after all, why not take advantage of the RAID for completely undoing all the benefits of Storage Groups

[01:39:59]

fnogarin:

sphery: yup usb, actually just found this: August 2008 "pvrusb2 timeout?" its a know old issue

[01:40:48]

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[01:41:20]

fnogarin:

Uggg. it says: Workaround seems to be to plug and unplug USB which reloads the driver.

[01:41:38]

fnogarin:

anyone know how to script a resut of the usb bus?

[01:41:42]

fresswolf:

sphery: I really don't get it. Sometimes the xmltv options don't show up under video source setup. This behaviour seems random to me

[01:41:44]

fnogarin:

resut=reset

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[01:42:39]

sphery:

fnogarin: #!/bin/bash\nsudo reboot

[01:43:15]

fnogarin:

sphery: lol – no, I know how to reboot the system, I mean to just reset the usb bus itself

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[01:45:20]

sphery:

fresswolf: there are some UI issues in that screen, but it should do what you need it to do as long as you select the right things in the right order--basically top to bottom--and do /not/ select things you shouldn't (like "Scan for Channels" when you're using an analog source or "Fetch channels from listings provider" when using a digital source (at least you can't do that before scanning for channels and you may have to first ...

[01:45:26]

sphery:

... edit all the xmltvid's for all the channels before doing it, too)

[01:46:34]

sphery:

fresswolf: I highly recommend the delete all video sources approach to clean up the garbage, then go through the procedure as outlined on that page, but do it methodically and pay attention to the results and take note... Then if you have issues, again, Delete all video sources and try to find the mistake in your prior procedure based on the notes you took

[01:47:23]

sphery:

"MythTV isn't a right. It's a privilege earned through the blood, sweat, and tears involved in setting it up..." <-- a new motto, perhaps?

[01:49:05]

Azelphur:

lol, mythtv just scared the crap out of me

[01:49:40]

Azelphur:

Conky was firing up with lots of bandwith, so I'm thinking "that's suspicious", then I noticed mysqldump running

[01:49:58]

Azelphur:

I even pulled my ethernet cable out :x

[01:50:05]

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[01:50:08]

wagnerrp:

why?

[01:50:23]

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[01:50:24]

Azelphur:

wagnerrp: because mysqldump uploading somewhere when I didn't instigate it scared the crap outta me

[01:50:36]

Azelphur:

obviously post-investigation I found out it was an automated background thing for mythtv lol

[01:50:43]

wagnerrp:

a 'lot of bandwidth' to mean means more bandwidth than i have internet

[01:50:55]

fresswolf:

sphery: hm yes it's pretty strange. mythtv-setup now always times out while running 'tv_find_grabbers baseline'. But if I run this manually, there are no problems

[01:51:10]

wagnerrp:

i dont like this 'todd'

[01:51:13]

Azelphur:

wagnerrp: nah, my internal LAN is all 10mbit, so about as fast as my internet connection lol

[01:51:17]

Azelphur:

so it looked bad :P

[01:51:23]

fresswolf:

but I should get some sleep now and build the whole database from scratch tomorrow. thanks anyway

[01:51:24]

wagnerrp:

what???

[01:51:24]

** Azelphur is in the process of switching to 1gbit **

[01:51:31]

fresswolf:

bye all

[01:51:32]

wagnerrp:

go faster

[01:51:33]

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[01:51:43]

Azelphur:

wagnerrp: I am! bought cable and already layed alot of it :P

[01:51:43]

johnnyj:

i have an mkv file that sounded fine in .22-fixes and now in .23-fixes the soundtrack / background music seems to be in the foreground and it's difficult to hear the voices of the actors at all

[01:51:48]

wagnerrp:

free yourself from those ISA cards

[01:51:59]

johnnyj:

there's no alternate audio track to switch to either

[01:52:12]

Azelphur:

wagnerrp: if my dad had his way we'd still be on the 10mbit, I had to spend about a month of arguing against his paranoia to get this far :P

[01:52:21]

sphery:

fresswolf: I think you need to update to a newer 0.23-fixes

[01:52:29]

Azelphur:

but yea, just thought that might be amusing to people that mythtv scared the crap outta me :)

[01:54:11]

sphery:

johnnyj: I think that after updating to 0.23-fixes, a large number of people have to reconfigure their audio for exactly that reason

[01:54:23]

sphery:

johnnyj: I /think/ just going through the audio setup fixes it

[01:54:33]

iamlindoro:

(and setting the number of audio channels)

[01:54:49]

johnnyj:

i did all that – im on stereo

[01:54:49]

sphery:

ah, that

[01:54:51]

iamlindoro:

(ie, if you're using stereo, set it to stereo, and if you're using 5.1, set that)

[01:55:01]

johnnyj:

i dont have surround speakers at this time

[01:55:22]

iamlindoro:

Is the audio tarck AAC?

[01:55:23]

iamlindoro:

track

[01:55:47]

johnnyj:

iamlindoro: yes it's aac

[01:56:01]

wagnerrp:

'tarak' sounds like something you might want to slice open and sleep in for warmth

[01:56:12]

iamlindoro:

then who knows, I also have seen all sorts of weird behaviors with the new audio code and AAC

[01:56:56]

sphery:

Branch libmythui-osd: Don't create a new decoder thread in PlayerContext.

[01:56:57]

iamlindoro:

And those behaviors are made even worse in that things behave more and less strangely if you compile against libfaad

[01:56:59]

sphery:

yay!

[01:57:00]

johnnyj:

um – what command can i use to get info on these files and compare them?

[01:57:21]

sphery:

ffmpeg -i ?

[01:57:22]

wagnerrp:

yeah, im in the process or remuxing all my old dvd rips with the original AC3 track because of such issues

[01:58:06]

iamlindoro:

*Do* recommend opening a bug on it though

[01:58:12]

iamlindoro:

(include a link to a sample)

[01:58:32]

johnnyj:

iamlindoro: you talking to me?

[01:58:41]

iamlindoro:

yes

[01:58:41]

wagnerrp:

i dont see anyone else here

[01:58:57]

sphery:

that's because I'm wearing a suit made of wallpaper!

[01:59:19]

iamlindoro:

AAC playback is really odd, and if your audio channels are set to the number of speakers you have, then it's a bug

[01:59:43]

johnnyj:

good deal – how do i create a smallish sample of this file?

[01:59:59]

johnnyj:

or is that on the wiki somewhere?

[02:00:42]

Beirdo:

ugh

[02:00:46]

Beirdo:

:)

[02:00:57]

iamlindoro:

dd if=infile of=outfile bs=10424k count=50

[02:01:02]

iamlindoro:

would give you a 50 MB sample

[02:01:09]

Beirdo:

weekend camping... getting durnk and having fun

[02:01:10]

sphery:

Beirdo: bash: ugh: command not found

[02:01:14]

iamlindoro:

(please make sure it still plays once you're done, some containers don't like being cut)

[02:01:18]

Beirdo:

umm bs=1024k

[02:01:22]

iamlindoro:

and yeah

[02:01:22]

Beirdo:

not 10424k

[02:01:24]

iamlindoro:

1024k

[02:01:24]

iamlindoro:

thanks

[02:01:27]

Beirdo:

:)

[02:01:29]

iamlindoro:

fat finger

[02:01:34]

wagnerrp:

heh... sourceforge has some javascript that mimic's the warning dropdown on recent browsers

[02:01:43]

wagnerrp:

warning about some planned downtime

[02:01:52]

Beirdo:

sphery: yeah. Work starts tomorrow :) And I went camping :)

[02:01:53]

Beirdo:

yay

[02:01:54]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: can you do that with mkv?

[02:02:01]

sphery:

Beirdo: yay!

[02:02:20]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, I don't honestly know-- I have seen partial files play, but they may not *all* play

[02:02:27]

iamlindoro:

partial mkvs, that is

[02:02:35]

Beirdo:

now I just need to catch up on like absolutely everything

[02:02:41]

sphery:

a friend of mine is moving to AK for a year and is looking forward to the (very long) layover in Seattle

[02:03:00]

johnnyj:

wagnerrp: i wish i could get my projects at my dayjob to do that – they'd rather pretend nobody is being effected

[02:03:08]

Beirdo:

Coool

[02:03:18]

Beirdo:

Alaska would be just too cold for me

[02:03:31]

wagnerrp:

johnnyj: do what?

[02:03:32]

iamlindoro:

Alaska would just be too Alaska for me

[02:03:36]

sphery:

yeah... and moving from Florida...

[02:03:38]

sphery:

big change

[02:03:42]

Beirdo:

no kidding

[02:03:52]

Beirdo:

I do like the Pacific NW

[02:04:02]

sphery:

not so much the Pacific NN

[02:04:27]

johnnyj:

wagnerrp: i wanted to put up a notice on our homepage when we were doing maintenance – they said 'we'd rather not tell them, and hope they dont notice'

[02:04:32]

johnnyj:

made me sad face

[02:05:11]

sphery:

what's really bad is when it becomes your fault when they /do/ notice

[02:05:24]

sphery:

"If you had finished faster..."

[02:05:57]

wagnerrp:

hurrumph hurrumph hurrumph hurrumph hurrumph hurrumph

[02:07:37]

** wagnerrp suspects hes going to make an enemy on mythtvtalk, after telling 'todd' hes flat wrong on two occasions **

[02:07:55]

sphery:

heh

[02:08:05]

johnnyj:

im making this sample file and it occurs to me that this problem may not be as evident in the title sequence, do you think that matters?

[02:08:22]

iamlindoro:

you want a sample large enough to exhibit the issue

[02:08:48]

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[02:12:22]

TraceII:

Hi, I am considering putting together a mythtv box, but I have a few questions

[02:12:27]

johnnyj:

ugh – I just lost control of the remote

[02:12:38]

RedDragon:

HELP!

[02:12:42]

johnnyj:

I'll have to work on this after someone goes to bed

[02:13:19]

RedDragon:

[02:13:28]

[R]:

TraceII: ok... so ask them

[02:13:40]

RedDragon:

gergeer,mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[02:13:44]

wagnerrp:

still wondering about mass insemination?

[02:13:49]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[02:13:55]

TraceII:

I currently have Comcast, and I'm not sure what I need to work

[02:14:01]

RedDragon has been kicked from #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro (RedDragon)

[02:14:22]

wagnerrp:

TraceII: http://mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable

[02:14:24]

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[02:14:34]

RedDragon:

heelp!

[02:14:49]

iamlindoro:

RedDragon, Act like a human being or you are gone. If you have a question, ask it. NO DRAMA.

[02:16:40]

RedDragon:

What's so unhuman about it?

[02:16:55]

RedDragon:

I need help!

[02:17:11]

iamlindoro:

RedDragon, You are jamming random keys and shouting for help. If you want help, ask a question.

[02:17:11]

wagnerrp:

so explain your problem, dont act like an idoit

[02:17:44]

TraceII:

so with just a digital tuner card, I can only get basic cable channels?

[02:17:59]

RedDragon:

who says i'm ACTING like, and I'm not one. Idiots have rights too, you know...

[02:18:07]

wagnerrp:

TraceII: that depends, see the link provided to find a lineup in your area

[02:18:17]

iamlindoro:

RedDragon, The next thing from you had better be an on-topic question or statement, or you are banned.

[02:18:27]

wagnerrp:

RedDragon: out assistance is not a right

[02:18:32]

wagnerrp:

s/out/our/

[02:19:18]

RedDragon:

and violating mine is? and now the question: what is this MythTv thingy?

[02:19:32]

iamlindoro:

You can find out at www.mythtv.org

[02:19:37]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview

[02:19:45]

RedDragon:

not accessable at the moment

[02:19:46]

wagnerrp:

RedDragon: what rights have we violated?

[02:19:53]

iamlindoro:

you don't have rights here. Being here is a privilege, not a right.

[02:20:00]

wagnerrp:

page works fine for me

[02:20:16]

RedDragon:

threatening me, kicking for asking for help etc.

[02:20:28]

wagnerrp:

you didnt ask for help, you just made noise

[02:20:30]

RedDragon:

my net doesn't

[02:20:43]

iamlindoro:

RedDragon, You are walking on very thin ice. Drop it.

[02:20:44]

wagnerrp:

asking for help implies you actually state your problem

[02:20:46]

TraceII:

my guess is troll...

[02:20:48]

RedDragon:

you might call it noise, but i call it a cry for help

[02:20:57]

iamlindoro:

RedDragon, Stop of leave.

[02:21:00]

iamlindoro:

s/of/or/

[02:21:44]

RedDragon:

my net doesn't work. so i have no means of finding out. what is this MythTv thing?

[02:21:49]

RedDragon:

some connection issues

[02:22:14]

iamlindoro:

RedDragon, MythTV is a DVR software suite for linux.

[02:22:27]

wagnerrp:

for more information than that, please see the page

[02:22:28]

RedDragon:

cool. i need that

[02:22:46]

RedDragon:

wagnerrp: as i said, i can't at the moment

[02:22:56]

wagnerrp:

so fix your internet

[02:23:06]

wagnerrp:

priorities

[02:23:06]

RedDragon:

i'm doing that

[02:23:27]

TraceII:

http://www.helpmyinternetisntworkingsoicantgoonanywebsites.com

[02:23:33]

RedDragon:

for 3 hours. but need to change parts

[02:23:46]

RedDragon:

and its 4 in the morning

[02:23:51]

TraceII:

pff

[02:23:54]

TraceII:

no its not

[02:24:01]

markl_:

ok this is really weird when i tell mythtv to pause it takes like 15 seconds for it to respond

[02:24:10]

markl_:

unpause too, doesn't matter if it's keyboard or ir

[02:24:19]

TraceII:

its OBVIOUSLY 9:45 PM

[02:24:21]

markl_:

navigating the menus is normal

[02:24:27]

TraceII:

anyway

[02:24:38]

kormoc:

TraceII: erm, I hope you mean 24 not 45

[02:24:38]

markl_:

it's always 4:20 somewhere!!! </goby>

[02:24:41]

RedDragon:

TraceII: its CET here

[02:25:11]

TraceII:

right...

[02:25:16]

TraceII:

time travel

[02:25:17]

TraceII:

?

[02:25:24]

kormoc:

TraceII: erm, he's right?

[02:25:28]

RedDragon:

markl_: no it isn't. if its *.50 or *.20, its 4:20 somewhere

[02:25:37]

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[02:25:41]

sphery:

markl_: CPU load when playing back recordings?

[02:25:53]

kormoc:

TraceII: http://www.google.com/search?q=what+time+is+it

[02:26:18]

RedDragon:

no pointing installing the net in time corridor, now is there? (hmm, that's a good idea :P)

[02:26:59]

TraceII:

If I plugged an analog tuner into one of the comcast converters, would that work?

[02:27:19]

sphery:

if converter = set-top box, then yes

[02:27:40]

sphery:

though you wouldn't use the tuner, just the capture portion of the device

[02:27:55]

sphery:

and an S-Video or Composite or Component connection

[02:27:56]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the comcast DTAs only come with an RF output

[02:28:09]

sphery:

oh, then, yes, and you /would/ use the tuner

[02:28:12]

wagnerrp:

isnt it nice of them to make it easy like that

[02:28:20]

kormoc:

just to a single channel

[02:28:29]

markl_:

cpu load is 0

[02:28:33]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: unless they do all the channels?

[02:28:35]

[R]:

wagnerrp: no confusing ports

[02:28:52]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: no, its a basic QAM tuner... it just only has the RF output

[02:28:53]

markl_:

do i need these tables that start with old? oldprogram, oldrecorded?

[02:28:57]

wagnerrp:

single channel

[02:29:01]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: rgr

[02:29:14]

TraceII:

so if i wanted two channels, i would need to converters and two tuners?

[02:29:15]

kormoc:

markl_: only if you want to keep track of previously recorded shows

[02:29:22]

kormoc:

TraceII: yes

[02:29:32]

[R]:

TraceII: or a dual tuner card

[02:29:42]

sphery:

and 2 converters

[02:29:45]

TraceII:

how would that be connected up?

[02:29:45]

kormoc:

[R]: that's still 2 tuners

[02:30:14]

markl_:

kormoc: actually i want to delete all recordings from the db and hard drive

[02:30:39]

[R]:

kormoc: well yeah, but one card

[02:30:46]

[R]:

TraceII: the output of the bxo to the input of the tuner

[02:30:47]

kormoc:

markl_: those are *previously* recorded, not currently recorded

[02:30:56]

markl_:

ok gotcha

[02:31:41]

[R]:

what's the "correct" sound setting for 0.23 to get 5.1 sound?

[02:31:52]

RedDragon:

can MythTV record the program and store it to some media?

[02:31:53]

kormoc:

[R]: for me? ALSA:default

[02:32:04]

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[02:32:04]

[R]:

kormoc: not the device... theres a channels setting

[02:32:10]

markl_:

[R]: i set up an /etc/asound.conf file and also set it to ALSA:spdif

[02:32:12]

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[02:32:13]

[R]:

RedDragon: it'll store it wherver you tell it to

[02:32:18]

[R]:

markl_: not the device

[02:32:18]

sphery:

markl_: direct DB editing isn't recommended... direct DB editing when you don't know the details of how all the tables and columns are used in MythTV is asking for trouble...

[02:32:32]

RedDragon:

[R]: cool :)

[02:32:33]

markl_:

[R]: but the weird thing is that now i can't figure out how to turn off s/pdif and use the 2 channel analog

[02:32:45]

sphery:

markl_: you should really use MythTV to delete the old recordings because it knows where all the info is--and it's not just one table

[02:33:02]

sphery:

you can do all recordings at once if you liike

[02:33:02]

markl_:

sphery: is there an easy way to flag everything for deletion?

[02:33:03]

kormoc:

[R]: depends on your capture device?

[02:33:04]

TraceII:

so if I got this

[02:33:05]

TraceII:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Searc . . . p;CatId=1427

[02:33:23]

TraceII:

could I connect it to two converters?

[02:33:23]

markl_:

sphery: ah nice, i usually delete with mythweb and it would take a day or two to do it by hand

[02:33:25]

kormoc:

TraceII: linuxtv.org

[02:33:37]

sphery:

markl_: go to Watch Recordings, then with All Programs selected, MENU|Add this group to Playlist, MENU|Playlist Options|Delete

[02:33:48]

markl_:

my mythdb database is 10MB compressed, does that seem excessive?

[02:33:48]

[R]:

kormoc: huh?

[02:34:04]

[R]:

markl_: omg yes... its going to take over your whole hard drive soon

[02:34:05]

markl_:

sphery: cool ty!

[02:34:12]

kormoc:

[R]: if you're talking bout where to setup capturing of 5.1, that depends on your capture device

[02:34:24]

sphery:

markl_: -rw-r--r-- 1 mythtv mythtv 89546005 2010-04–17 08:23 /home/mythtv/backup/mythconverg-1214–20100417082149.sql.gz

[02:34:28]

sphery:

so, no

[02:34:31]

sphery:

not at all

[02:34:41]

markl_:

ok cool

[02:34:50]

[R]:

kormoc: i'm not talking about capture...

[02:35:05]

kormoc:

[R]: so you don't want to know about playback device or capture... what else is there?

[02:35:27]

[R]:

kormoc: n/m

[02:36:47]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro

[02:38:39]

TraceII:

so what is the cheapest dual tuner supported by mythtv?

[02:38:53]

kormoc:

TraceII: pvr500

[02:39:08]

[R]:

but does that have 2 inputs... or does it have an internal splitter?

[02:39:21]

wagnerrp:

two inputs i believe

[02:39:25]

wagnerrp:

unless one is FM

[02:39:38]

kormoc:

requires a breakout adapter for certain inputs?

[02:39:46]

[R]:

thats not good! i'm getting tons of prebuffer pauses

[02:40:08]

wagnerrp:

yeah, you need the daughter card if you want to hit the second encoder without using the tuner

[02:41:31]

[R]:

grrr

[02:41:52]

TraceII:

so is it two inputs?

[02:43:45]

TraceII:

I guess not, there are a few references to fm radio

[02:44:03]

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[02:44:06]

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[02:44:09]

tank-man:

im sure a google img search will tell

[02:44:25]

kormoc:

it might be model dependent too

[02:44:47]

wagnerrp:

the image search will just show two rf inputs

[02:44:49]

wagnerrp:

not what they are

[02:45:29]

TraceII:

the left one is radio

[02:45:48]

[R]:

that's weird

[02:46:04]

[R]:

how do i get the "default" vdpau settings?

[02:46:06]

TraceII:

so how would i connect two converters to it?

[02:46:23]

[R]:

you need either a card that has 2 real inputs

[02:46:23]

wagnerrp:

you may not be able to

[02:46:24]

[R]:

or 2 cards

[02:46:44]

wagnerrp:

or... you may need to open up the converter and tap the output prior to the modulator

[02:47:05]

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[02:47:11]

TraceII:

is that before or after powering of the flux capacitor?

[02:47:42]

TraceII:

*off

[02:50:12]

TraceII:

is it possible to use anything like this?

[02:50:46]

TraceII:

http://www.amazon.com/Easycap-USB-Video-Captu . . . p/B001BWU8US

[02:50:46]

[R]:

like what

[02:51:07]

[R]:

well the convertor only has RF

[02:51:09]

wagnerrp:

that has no RF input

[02:51:09]

[R]:

and i see no RF on there

[02:51:10]

[R]:

so no

[02:51:13]

wagnerrp:

what good is it?

[02:51:54]

TraceII:

arent there rf to rca adapters?

[02:52:01]

wagnerrp:

yes, theyre called tuners

[02:52:09]

wagnerrp:

you can find one in any vcr

[02:52:41]

[R]:

lol

[02:53:13]

wagnerrp:

there will be no cheaper solution than just buying however many PVR-150s you need

[02:53:32]

wagnerrp:

better option... how many cable channels might you want to watch simultaneously?

[02:53:42]

TraceII:

at least two

[02:53:50]

wagnerrp:

nearly all of my recording is done over broadcast anymore

[02:53:58]

wagnerrp:

i dont record much actually on cable

[02:54:22]

TraceII:

are there any usb tuners supported by mythtv?

[02:54:42]

wagnerrp:

mythtv does not support tuners of any kind (with some exceptions)

[02:54:47]

wagnerrp:

it supports the V4L and DVB APIs

[02:54:55]

[R]:

vdpau temporal 2x worked in 0.22 and now it doesnt in 0.23... is that weird?

[02:54:55]

wagnerrp:

linuxtv.org supports the individual cards

[02:56:08]

TraceII:

so then it is a question of what linuxtv.org supports right?

[02:56:15]

wagnerrp:

correct

[02:56:28]

TraceII:

in that case i would like to change my question

[02:56:30]

wagnerrp:

that project makes the actual kernel drivers

[02:56:33]

TraceII:

:D

[02:57:17]

TraceII:

are there any usb tuners supported by LINUXTV.ORG?

[02:57:24]

wagnerrp:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Video_via_USB

[02:57:48]

wagnerrp:

specifically, you want to use that pvrusb2 listed there

[03:01:20]

TraceII:

anyone know off the top of their head which one works best?

[03:01:27]

wagnerrp:

the pvrusb2

[03:04:14]

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[03:05:00]

TraceII:

dang

[03:05:18]

TraceII:

$111 for refurbished?

[03:05:34]

wagnerrp:

thats why you want the $20 PCI version

[03:05:52]

TraceII:

how about this setup:

[03:06:03]

johnnyj:

the dd command you suggested worked fine to create a sample of the mkv file

[03:06:04]

TraceII:

2 comcast converters

[03:06:11]

markl_:

ok, dumping & reloading all the mysql db's, and apt-get upgrade, seem to have fixed the pause problem.

[03:06:15]

TraceII:

2 old vcrs

[03:06:17]

markl_:

i wonder which of the 2 it was, hmm

[03:06:40]

TraceII:

and 2 cheap usb rca capture thingies

[03:06:51]

[R]:

TraceII: its gonna look like crap... you know that right?

[03:06:57]

johnnyj:

i had to increase the blocks a bit to get to the dialogue

[03:06:58]

TraceII:

yeah

[03:07:16]

johnnyj:

so it's 250Mb – any ideas where I can host that for opening a ticket?

[03:07:16]

TraceII:

but it will probably be in my basement closet

[03:07:20]

[R]:

TraceII: well if there are drivers for those "cheap usb rca capture thingies"... then it would work

[03:07:27]

wagnerrp:

johnnyj: dd allows you to set an offset

[03:07:34]

johnnyj:

now you tell me

[03:07:38]

[R]:

TraceII: not that the equipment will look like crap... the video will look like crap

[03:07:41]

wagnerrp:

TraceII: no, he means the video quality will be crap

[03:07:48]

TraceII:

ah

[03:07:57]

johnnyj:

... man dd ...

[03:08:21]

iamlindoro:

though note that cutting out the header makes it a lot more likely that the resulting file will be unplayable

[03:08:50]

wagnerrp:

yeah, didnt think about that

[03:09:14]

johnnyj:

as it is when you play this back in myth it thinks it's the full file's length, so when it hits the end it may not be pretty

[03:09:15]

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[03:09:28]

dgilmore:

anyone using a hd-pvr with dish network?

[03:09:51]

dgilmore:

I have a vip-211 and am getting horrible audio sync issues

[03:10:10]

dgilmore:

and the hd-pvr has locked up a few times

[03:10:54]

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[03:10:55]

kormoc:

upgrade the firmware?

[03:11:00]

johnnyj:

i heard google docs increased its size limits

[03:11:14]

Beirdo:

johnnyj: and?

[03:11:33]

johnnyj:

i need somewhere to host this 250Mb sample

[03:11:47]

johnnyj:

trac doesnt want to hold that does it?

[03:11:53]

wagnerrp:

no

[03:12:00]

dgilmore:

kormoc: i think im running the latest

[03:12:14]

johnnyj:

if only i still worked for a hosting provider

[03:12:21]

Beirdo:

johnnyj: ummm, box.net, dropbox.com, etc... ;0

[03:12:26]

kormoc:

dgilmore: it requires you hooking the hdpvr up to a windows box

[03:13:15]

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[03:13:26]

TraceII:

so in conclusion, cheapest tuner is...?

[03:13:59]

dgilmore:

i attached the hd-pvr to a windows kvm guest i setup just to do it

[03:14:10]

dgilmore:

kormoc: and installed the latest driver

[03:14:17]

dgilmore:

and it said it all went ok

[03:14:21]

kormoc:

fair 'nuff

[03:14:26]

kormoc:

that fixed my hdpvr lockups

[03:14:27]

dgilmore:

though linux reports the same version

[03:14:42]

dgilmore:

Ive had mine about 3 days now

[03:14:48]

dgilmore:

about to send it back

[03:15:02]

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[03:15:04]

johnnyj:

i have zero hdpvr issues

[03:15:06]

kormoc:

update/downgrade kernel versions?

[03:15:16]

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[03:16:37]

dgilmore:

i upgraded from F-12 to F-13

[03:16:45]

johnnyj:

crud – brb

[03:16:47]

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[03:16:53]

dgilmore:

biggest issue is the audio sync

[03:17:02]

dgilmore:

I had to disable mythv

[03:17:09]

dgilmore:

we couldnt watch anything

[03:17:25]

dgilmore:

audio would get to be 4–5 seconds off

[03:17:54]

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[03:18:35]

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[03:20:36]

kormoc:

dgilmore: recording via component + rca?

[03:25:11]

fnogarin:

wagnerrp: I am fighting with the pvrusb2 it has the rare but PITA zero byte problem.

[03:26:40]

dgilmore:

kormoc: component and optical

[03:26:56]

wagnerrp:

fnogarin: no it doesnt

[03:27:10]

kormoc:

dgilmore: try switching to RCA and see if that fixes it?

[03:27:12]

wagnerrp:

the 'zero byte problem' is one where mythtv cannot access the tuner for whatever reason

[03:27:27]

wagnerrp:

all tuner cards exhibit that same behavior if mythtv cannot access it

[03:27:29]

kormoc:

if so, I believe there are hdpvr module options to adjust optical input stuff

[03:27:50]

kormoc:

fnogarin: perhaps your usb bus is going to sleep?

[03:28:24]

fnogarin:

wagnerrp: sorry, but thats what teh mythtv wiki says about the device. It says its the driver for the device and mythtv will loose the device every now in then resulting in the zb file.

[03:29:02]

wagnerrp:

right, thats a driver problem

[03:29:05]

fnogarin:

my bus works fine, but the device just becomes unavailable, it is a known and long standing issue apparently.

[03:29:11]

wagnerrp:

not a 'mythtv zero byte' problem

[03:29:22]

wagnerrp:

mythtv recording empty files is merely a symptom

[03:29:36]

kormoc:

fnogarin: guess then it's less that you're fighting it and more that you're just complaining?

[03:30:05]

[R]:

i found using a decent usb host chip drastically improves the hdpvr

[03:30:08]

wagnerrp:

that said, i cannot recommend anything but a hardware encoder for tuning analog

[03:30:21]

[R]:

then again... if my backend is on for too long, it dies for me too... but i always shut my backend off when its idle... so not a problem

[03:30:24]

wagnerrp:

and that pretty well limits you to the pvrusb2

[03:30:43]

fnogarin:

kormoc: well if all i did was complain you would be correct, but I am fighting, writing software to reset the usb bus is more like fighting in my mind, I am desperately tying to get these tuners and mythtv to play nice, the drive is to blame, and the symptom is the zero byte files.

[03:30:59]

[R]:

fnogarin: have you tried turning on and off the device?

[03:32:12]

fnogarin:

[R]: no switch, but unplugging it works, however thats not a workaround I can live with anymore, i am trying to solve it or work aourd it programaticaly so I dont have to go to the4 house and pull the plug

[03:32:16]

TraceII:

so what are the system requirements for mythtv?

[03:32:26]

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[03:32:53]

[R]:

you can programatically turn it off

[03:32:53]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview

[03:33:27]

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[03:33:41]

fnogarin:

[R]: I just found and compiled a usbreset util but it requires a device file to work, how would you do it?

[03:33:50]

[R]:

how would i do what

[03:34:14]

wagnerrp:

fnogarin: it wants to know what root hub you want to reset

[03:34:16]

fnogarin:

programatically turn off the device

[03:34:41]

[R]:

write some code for a microcontroller that is addressable by the computer to turn on/off a relay

[03:35:00]

wagnerrp:

actually, it looks like it wants the actual device to reset

[03:35:00]

[R]:

there are some pretty expensive computer controllable power strips though

[03:35:29]

wagnerrp:

http://marc.info/?l=linux-usb-users&m=116 . . . 6484&w=2

[03:35:43]

fnogarin:

[R]: Oh that is clever, Ok, I will use a lamp module and my heyu software to turn the power on and off, that *IS* a workaround that does not require me to go to the location.

[03:36:17]

[R]:

like i said... i never have a problem

[03:36:21]

[R]:

i don't leave my backend on

[03:36:32]

johnnyj (johnnyj!~chatzilla@cpe-173-172-31-183.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[03:36:55]

johnnyj:

dropbox ain't to shabby – linux support and 2gb free

[03:37:02]

johnnyj:

thanks for the tip

[03:37:05]

fnogarin:

wagnerrp: right, I dont think the code I just compiles was meant for this kind of application, I think it was meant for a usb device that has a file in the dev folder, which I am not sure the pvrusb2 does...

[03:37:41]

fnogarin:

[R]: If you dont leave the BE on how does it record tv while you sleep?

[03:37:52]

wagnerrp:

ACPI wakeup

[03:37:53]

[R]:

fnogarin: acpi wakeup

[03:38:22]

fnogarin:

What tells it to wake up?

[03:38:37]

[R]:

when the backend is idle, it shuts down and tells itself to wake back up in time for the next recording

[03:39:22]

fnogarin:

[R]: sorry, im not dense, just confused, the BE service or the BE computer?

[03:39:44]

[R]:

the backend program

[03:39:50]

[R]:

it shuts down the computer

[03:39:55]

[R]:

and telsl the computer to wake up

[03:40:21]

johnnyj:

it uses the onboard clock in the bios to 'set a wake up call'

[03:40:25]

[R]:

wagnerrp: did keybindings change in 23? on the watch recordings screen i used to be able to hit 'i' and get to a menu that let me delete... now it brings up 'program details'

[03:40:30]

fnogarin:

[R]: Ok, so if I understand you are suggesting that if mythtv-backend is not running then my pvrusb2 may not lock itself up

[03:40:38]

kormoc:

[R]: m is menu

[03:40:41]

wagnerrp:

[R]: now 'm' cycles through both menus

[03:40:42]

kormoc:

[R]: we unified that everywhere

[03:40:45]

[R]:

hrm

[03:40:50]

wagnerrp:

erm... i cycles though info

[03:40:52]

[R]:

fnogarin: no... i'm suggesting if the compuer turns off...

[03:40:54]

wagnerrp:

m just has the one menu

[03:41:04]

[R]:

interesting...

[03:41:09]

[R]:

no, i see two menus

[03:41:55]

fnogarin:

Thanks Folks, you have given me lots of good suggestions, I think I need to dig deepter into acpi wakeup, it sounds like a great idea to confiugre it...

[03:42:05]

[R]:

its all in the wiki

[03:42:18]

fnogarin:

[R]: Aswome even easier ;-)

[03:42:41]

TraceII:

what are the mythtv frontend system requirements?

[03:43:05]

[R]:

[08:32:53] +wagnerrp http://mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview

[03:43:17]

[R]:

TraceII: the answer is the same as it was 10 minutes ago

[03:43:33]

johnnyj:

TraceII: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Choosing_Frontend_Hardware

[03:44:46]

[R]:

does myth still not work iwth hostnames?

[03:45:22]

wagnerrp:

[R]: it simply cant

[03:45:35]

[R]:

why not?

[03:46:00]

wagnerrp:

because it uses those hostnames as indexing in the database

[03:46:13]

[R]:

i'm talking about using a hostname instead of an ip

[03:46:16]

[R]:

for like the db

[03:46:16]

wagnerrp:

correct

[03:46:33]

[R]:

so i dont get it

[03:48:00]

wagnerrp:

yeah... i had thought this out a while back why it wouldnt work, but i cant remember off hand

[03:48:29]

TraceII:

so a pc running the frontend streams video from a pc running the backend, correct?

[03:48:38]

[R]:

TraceII: yes

[03:48:55]

TraceII:

and this can be over lan or the internet?

[03:49:05]

[R]:

lan

[03:49:06]

wagnerrp:

lan only

[03:49:15]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is not secured for operation over the internet

[03:49:23]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: [R]: It was mainly to prevent all the thousands of dns issues

[03:49:27]

wagnerrp:

even if you did have sufficient internet bandwidth to handle the raw streams

[03:49:45]

johnnyj:

ugh I hate unecessary dns

[03:49:56]

[R]:

kormoc: it'd be nice to not have to put the ips... but oh well

[03:49:58]

johnnyj:

I'm waging this compaign quietly at the office

[03:50:14]

johnnyj:

apache doesn't need (should use) dns to talk to tomcat

[03:50:20]

johnnyj:

don't get me started

[03:50:47]

johnnyj:

s/should/shouldn't

[03:51:19]

TraceII:

so is 802.11b to 802.11b enough to steam standard def?

[03:51:39]

kormoc:

TraceII: depends more on signal quality/etc

[03:52:29]

[R]:

b? def not

[03:53:12]

kormoc:

11 mbit is plenty for standard def

[03:53:19]

kormoc:

assuming 100% signal quality

[03:53:24]

[R]:

100% lol

[03:53:46]

kormoc:

[R]: works for some folks

[03:53:59]

kormoc:

which is why it's less which generation and more quality

[03:54:33]

TraceII:

can quality be increased with a large antenna?

[03:54:55]

[R]:

it depends on why the quality is bad

[03:59:01]

TraceII:

and i assume g to g wold be fine

[03:59:40]

TraceII:

dang

[03:59:45]

[R]:

[08:51:39] +kormoc TraceII: depends more on signal quality/etc

[03:59:50]

[R]:

the answer is still the same

[03:59:59]

** [R] wonders where wagnerrp is **

[04:00:06]

wagnerrp:

?

[04:00:15]

TraceII:

my phone is getting 4Mb/s

[04:00:19]

TraceII:

on wifi

[04:00:21]

[R]:

you usually jump on people trying to do myth over wifi

[04:00:22]

wagnerrp:

looking for me to pipe up with 'moar wires'?

[04:00:28]

wagnerrp:

yeah... run wires

[04:00:48]

wagnerrp:

4mbps is pathetically slow

[04:01:08]

iamlindoro:

johnnyj, Forcing the devs to create a dropbox account isn't a great choice

[04:01:14]

iamlindoro:

johnnyj, Just put it on rapidshare or something

[04:01:18]

wagnerrp:

insufficient for even standard definition

[04:01:20]

johnnyj:

that's not what i was trying to do

[04:01:32]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: i think anything over 200MB on rapidshare requires an account

[04:01:45]

TraceII:

my computer is getting 13mbps

[04:02:07]

johnnyj:

so...

[04:02:13]

wagnerrp:

13mbps is adequate for standard definition, assuming its a very reliable 13mbps and youre not stalling or getting dropouts

[04:02:14]

iamlindoro:

TraceII, The whole point is that a periodic bitrate means nothing-- it's that WiFi is too unreliable for Myth

[04:02:31]

johnnyj:

i can try to trim to 200mb

[04:02:49]

iamlindoro:

TraceII, When your neighbor microwaves popcorn, or a police car drives by, or someone picks up a phone, myth will choke

[04:02:57]

iamlindoro:

johnnyj, Don't trim, just put it somewhere sensible

[04:03:06]

iamlindoro:

like... rapidshare or similar

[04:04:02]

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[04:04:23]

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[04:04:27]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: he wants to trim it because i just told him rapidshare wouldnt work over 200mb

[04:04:32]

johnnyj:

iamlindoro: so you want me to split it into 2 rars and use 2 rapidshares?

[04:04:35]

iamlindoro:

similar then ;)

[04:04:46]

wagnerrp:

dont use rars either

[04:04:59]

TraceII:

what about 7zip

[04:05:00]

wagnerrp:

rars dont compress already-compressed video

[04:05:07]

wagnerrp:

neither does 7zip

[04:05:17]

johnnyj:

the point is to split it under 200mb per upload

[04:05:24]

wagnerrp:

especially if youre using something like h264 which already does its own impressive entropy compression

[04:05:37]

iamlindoro:

johnnyj, There are literally dozens of places you can put a 250 MB file

[04:05:38]

wagnerrp:

if you just want to split, just use 'split'

[04:05:41]

iamlindoro:

just do some homework

[04:06:00]

iamlindoro:

The fewer gyrations needed to get your sample, the more likely it is to get solved

[04:06:39]

iamlindoro:

http://www.siteslike.com/similar/rapidshare.com

[04:06:48]

johnnyj:

i'd almost rather learn the audio code

[04:08:01]

TraceII:

So what are the chances of me running the frontend on a >$100 tablet

[04:09:14]

iamlindoro:

>$100 is a wide open specification

[04:09:24]

iamlindoro:

Why not specify actual hardware?

[04:09:35]

** kormoc waits for ipad **

[04:09:45]

iamlindoro:

The answers will run from "none whatsoever" to "that's just a somputer, it'll run fine."

[04:09:47]

johnnyj:

i'm trying sendspace

[04:09:47]

iamlindoro:

er computer

[04:12:06]

johnnyj:

yikes – "[mythtv] Johnny Walker wants to share "8366" with you"

[04:12:15]

johnnyj:

I didn't realize it was about to send that

[04:12:30]

johnnyj:

i'm not sure what I thoght it was gonna do, but it wasn't that

[04:13:27]

wagnerrp:

you can send mail to the list without being registered?

[04:13:32]

wagnerrp:

that sounds bad...

[04:13:35]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: sadly

[04:14:56]

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[04:18:31]

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[04:19:12]

TraceII:

are there any windows ce frontends?

[04:19:20]

kormoc:

no

[04:19:26]

wagnerrp:

can windows ce run normal windows binaries?

[04:19:46]

wagnerrp:

chances are there isnt enough memory on one of those systems anyway

[04:19:55]

[R]:

no

[04:20:07]

[R]:

but it can do compact .net

[04:23:06]

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[04:26:33]

TraceII:

ever heard of the web dt377

[04:26:40]

TraceII:

*366

[04:27:41]

kormoc:

nope

[04:27:46]

iamlindoro:

TraceII, Not a chance of that running myth

[04:28:01]

iamlindoro:

Myth needs real hardware, not surplus toys

[04:29:13]

iamlindoro:

ie, Myth is a luxury DVR system and running it properly means running it on reasonably modern commodity hardware

[04:29:40]

iamlindoro:

You can run Myth on some older hardware, but not in a way any of us might consider acceptably.

[04:29:55]

iamlindoro:

and definitely not on some random CE device

[04:30:44]

johnnyj:

thanks all

[04:30:47]

johnnyj:

have a good night

[04:30:49]

TraceII:

it can run xp

[04:31:11]

wagnerrp:

the fact that it can run CE means that its pretty pathetic hardware

[04:31:28]

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[04:33:09]

TraceII:

400mhz

[04:33:12]

iamlindoro:

TraceII, It's just not going to happen-- again, myth requires modern, commodity hardware to run acceptably

[04:33:14]

iamlindoro:

No.

[04:33:20]

iamlindoro:

Won't run properly.

[04:33:44]

TraceII:

this is only for the front end btw

[04:33:46]

iamlindoro:

Has neither the ram, nor the processing power, nor the Graphics performance to run myth acceptably

[04:33:48]

iamlindoro:

Yes, I know.

[04:34:11]

tank-man:

for a frontend, you can look into settop media boxes that play media thru uPnP

[04:34:13]

wagnerrp:

if you want a frontend to run on that thing, youre going to have to program it on your own

[04:34:29]

tank-man:

*frontend replacement

[04:35:55]

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[04:37:07]

TraceII:

where can i find a list of devices that support frontends

[04:37:24]

iamlindoro:

"commodity hardware"

[04:37:33]

wagnerrp:

read 'modern PC'

[04:37:50]

TraceII:

I know

[04:37:58]

iamlindoro:

meaning anything that has a regular CPU, modern GPU, and 12+ MB of RAM (and preferably 1GB+)

[04:38:00]

TraceII:

i will mainly be using my laptop

[04:38:03]

iamlindoro:

er 512

[04:38:03]

wagnerrp:

there are no devices that support mythfrontend

[04:38:06]

wagnerrp:

only computers

[04:38:14]

wagnerrp:

full ones

[04:38:52]

wagnerrp:

tank-man was talking about UPnP clients

[04:38:52]

TraceII:

I just want a secondary frontend

[04:39:01]

wagnerrp:

which exist as their own media player

[04:39:13]

wagnerrp:

and can simply pull content off myth's upnp server

[04:45:32]

TraceII:

btw, xboxes can run the frontend

[04:45:43]

wagnerrp:

no, they cant

[04:45:53]

TraceII:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Xbox_Frontend

[04:46:01]

wagnerrp:

yes... no, they cant

[04:46:18]

[R]:

myth was using a theme in ~/.mythtv/themes but in the Apperanace screen it isn't listing it

[04:46:27]

iamlindoro:

And when they could (which they can't any more), it was because the Xbox is... *commodity hardware*

[04:46:27]

[R]:

and i see nothing useful on the output... is there some magical verbose option i can turn on?

[04:47:02]

wagnerrp:

you could use mythtv on the xbox back in the early 2000s, when both mythtv and the xbox were still relatively new

[04:47:32]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend's memory consumption has been far too high to run on the xbox for some time

[04:47:48]

wagnerrp:

even if you were just using standard definition video that the CPU could actually decode

[04:47:57]

TraceII:

i assume older versions still work

[04:48:12]

wagnerrp:

some time, being several years

[04:48:44]

wagnerrp:

i doubt you could even run linux on that thing without swapping

[04:49:12]

wagnerrp:

(linux + xorg anyway)

[04:49:21]

iamlindoro:

TraceII, If you aren't interested in anything besides arguing with us, why keep talking to us?

[04:49:30]

iamlindoro:

You seem to have all the answers, so please just stop wasting our time

[04:49:50]

iamlindoro:

we're telling you what will work, and more importantly, what will work acceptably-- if you don't like the answers then at least save us the questions

[04:50:09]

iamlindoro:

Note that you're talking with two myth devs, I should hope we at least mildly know what we're doing

[04:50:47]

wagnerrp:

meh, im just a scripter with commit access... :)

[04:51:12]

iamlindoro:

devs is devs

[04:54:52]

TraceII:

Well, I guess I'll just have to prove you wrong

[04:55:07]

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[04:55:08]

Shadow__X:

wow

[04:55:09]

TraceII:

or maybe just spend a bunch of money.....

[04:56:00]

TraceII:

next time you see me, I will either be gloating, or begging for more help

[04:56:13]

TraceII:

and on that note i bid you farewell

[04:56:14]

tank-man:

TraceII, if you keep reading that link you posted about xbox, it talks about xbmc with mythtv support in it, you can try that too

[04:56:16]

Shadow__X:

we found something harder than adamantium

[04:56:17]

wagnerrp:

it all boils down to memory

[04:56:27]

wagnerrp:

and most of those systems dont have anywhere near enough

[04:56:40]

wagnerrp:

tank-man: xbmc has dropped support for the xbox as well

[04:56:43]

wagnerrp:

for similar reasons

[04:56:58]

tank-man:

i see

[04:56:58]

iamlindoro:

TraceII, If you don't have acceptable hardware and a supportable software configuration, you'll receive no support whatsoever, no mater the amount of begging

[04:57:12]

wagnerrp:

its dead weight, and carrying around old systems like that prevents advancement of the program

[04:58:48]

Shadow__X:

my respect level for you guys has just risen higher. it seems either you guys are feeling great or had a huge shot of patience but either way, kudos

[04:58:57]

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[04:59:30]

TraceII:

well, worse case scenario, I watch from my laptop and have a cool tablet to play with

[05:00:22]

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[05:01:08]

iamlindoro:

a 400 Mhz Geode with 64 MB of Flash and no GPU to speak of does sound like a cool tablet...

[05:01:10]

iamlindoro:

...for 2004

[05:04:38]

wagnerrp:

nah, 64MB was pretty weak for 2004

[05:05:10]

wagnerrp:

nice PDAs from then had more than that

[05:08:46]

clever:

iamlindoro: my master backend has more ram then that!!

[05:09:23]

wagnerrp:

well not much point to continue that discussion, hes left

[05:14:45]

jya:

iamlindoro: I have a myth version playing > 6 channels E-AC3 (LPCM output) if you ever want to try

[05:15:43]

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[05:42:36]

markl_:

ok when i use mythtv to check the system status, it takes like 2 minutes to show the page

[05:42:45]

markl_:

i see tcpdump traffic to 6544

[05:42:53]

markl_:

but load avg is 0

[05:43:03]

wagnerrp:

sounds like its stalling on something

[05:43:08]

wagnerrp:

waiting for a timeout

[05:43:28]

markl_:

pretty much everything in mythtv has the same timeout

[05:43:33]

markl_:

er

[05:43:34]

markl_:

mythweb

[05:43:52]

wagnerrp:

the system status page is not generated by mythweb

[05:44:02]

wagnerrp:

or altered in any way other than providing a CSS

[05:45:06]

markl_:

do i need to increase the mythbackend log level or something?

[05:45:06]

kormoc:

if you have missing mount points, that might cause it

[05:45:11]

kormoc:

or stalled nfs threads

[05:45:29]

wagnerrp:

mythbackend trying to poll something for free space, and being unable to

[05:45:29]

kormoc:

(or nfs/samba mounts at all)

[05:45:58]

markl_:

df comes back instantly, videos and music are on nfs

[05:46:38]

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[05:46:58]

markl_:

file_get_contents(http://127.0.0.1:6544) [function.file-get-contents]: failed to open stream: HTTP request failed!

[05:47:13]

kormoc:

meaningless

[05:47:31]

kormoc:

run a ls on videos and music and make sure they work

[05:47:38]

kormoc:

touch a file/delete a file, etc

[05:48:06]

wagnerrp:

the LoC has decided to archive every tweet... ever....

[05:48:06]

markl_:

they work fine, but they are mounted read only

[05:48:41]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: public tweet

[05:49:43]

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[05:49:45]

markl_:

ok i'll unmount the nfs & iscsi and see if it's faster

[05:53:30]

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[05:53:41]

markl_:

i'm guessing it may be the process to check for new recordings

[05:53:47]

markl_:

er, upcoming recordings

[05:54:22]

kormoc:

it takes that long for the scheduler to run for you?

[05:55:25]

markl_:

if i click on "upcoming recordings" it times out, and mythtv isn't recording anything

[05:55:39]

markl_:

but the system has 0 load avg, so weird

[05:55:52]

kormoc:

restart the be

[05:55:58]

kormoc:

check for stuck preview threads?

[05:56:34]

markl_:

i've restarted quite a few times, but i'll kill the frontend first this time

[05:57:17]

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[09:16:40]

dibbz:

dont call my name dont call my name, iamlindoro

[09:17:31]

justinh:

???

[09:21:29]

[R]:

VICTORY IS MINE

[09:21:36]

[R]:

i finally have all my shutdown/wakeup stuff working

[09:21:39]

[R]:

its only 2:30 in the morning though

[09:26:19]

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[10:01:39]

justinh:

wth? 30 Rock returns tonight.. but not on Freeview. Sky buying stuff up AGAIN

[10:01:41]

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[10:03:55]

justinh:

not that it matters much – Virgin are considering selling their channels to Sky anyway

[10:08:15]

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[10:17:58]

justinh:

hmm. TV 'L' is £11.99 a month. Maybe I should've kept my pvr150 card

[10:28:35]

Dibblah:

I wish that the HDPVR was cheaper :(

[10:28:54]

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[10:29:16]

PsychoI3oy:

is there an official channel for LIRC?

[10:29:23]

justinh:

I wish I didn't have to use mythtv – i.e. that cable/satellite DVRs didn't suck

[10:29:31]

PsychoI3oy:

googling is failing me, especially because there's a java-based IRC client called lirc

[10:30:23]

justinh:

PsychoI3oy: #lirc ?

[10:30:27]

justinh:

just as a random guess

[10:30:42]

PsychoI3oy:

of course if anyone in here wants to help me get a thomson DTA DCI1011COM working with mceusb ir blasting..... I won't say no

[10:31:05]

PsychoI3oy:

justinh, good guess, heh

[10:31:10]

PsychoI3oy:

though only 14 people in there

[10:31:15]

justinh:

so?

[10:32:22]

justinh:

the amount of people in a channel has no bearing on how helpful the channel is

[10:32:36]

justinh:

I mean take this channel.. how many people sitting idle saying nothing constructive? :-O

[10:33:24]

Dibblah:

If it wasn't for the scheduling, UI and single "reserved" tuner, the V+ isn't terrible.

[10:33:25]

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[10:33:38]

Dibblah:

And the limited storage.

[10:33:51]

PsychoI3oy:

justinh, yeah, we'll see

[10:34:08]

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[10:34:22]

justinh:

Dibblah: lol. so apart from looking nice.. if you think it looks nice that is... ;-)

[10:34:46]

Dibblah:

As in it "works" and stays working.

[10:35:02]

justinh:

no crashy crashy wait 5 mins to rebooty?

[10:35:13]

Dibblah:

Okay, apart from that.

[10:35:15]

Dibblah:

;)

[10:35:25]

Dibblah:

But I haven't had one actual crash.

[10:35:41]

justinh:

all VM need to do is put everything I watch in their on-demand pile

[10:35:54]

Dibblah:

The only thing that appeared to be broken was the "search by program type" would hang the UI for 15 minutes.

[10:36:00]

justinh:

I'd possibly even be happy to pay 50p per episode

[10:36:08]

justinh:

I mean what's 50 pence? :)(

[10:36:09]

Dibblah:

Don't know if that's still the case now the guide is populated.

[10:36:16]

AndyCap:

justinh: not enough. :)

[10:36:39]

justinh:

see what I mean. people who just sit idle for yonks & then chime in with nothing constructive :-\

[10:37:07]

AndyCap:

justinh: if you put it on demand, would you still put up with ads?

[10:38:37]

justinh:

a couple of ads at the beginning isn't much of a hassle IMHO

[10:38:53]

justinh:

that's all that tends to happen

[10:39:00]

justinh:

if there are any ads at all, that is

[10:39:19]

justinh:

oh yeah Dibblah how's the VM DVR skipping?

[10:39:43]

justinh:

bet it's limited to FFW which easily overshoots

[10:40:31]

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[10:40:47]

Dibblah:

It backskips fairly intelligently.

[10:40:57]

justinh:

cool

[10:41:06]

AndyCap:

heh, I'd probably pay for the series I watch on demand too, just that I don't know if they can rake in enough cash with 50p per episode with no ads. A few ads is probably tolerable if they don't do crap like the animated teasers during the show

[10:41:14]

Dibblah:

And ffwd, being HW accelerated, is a lot smoother than Myth.

[10:41:25]

justinh:

last time I saw something consumer DVR-ish I was amazed how good it was – but nothing is as good as mythfrontend yet

[10:41:35]

Dibblah:

(Myth doesn't appear to use hardware accel for ffwd)

[10:41:49]

PsychoI3oy:

justinh, yeah, we'll see

[10:41:50]

PsychoI3oy:

justinh, yeah, we'll see

[10:41:51]

PsychoI3oy:

justinh, yeah, we'll see

[10:41:51]

PsychoI3oy:

justinh, yeah, we'll see

[10:41:51]

PsychoI3oy:

justinh, yeah, we'll see

[10:41:52]

PsychoI3oy:

justinh, yeah, we'll see

[10:41:52]

PsychoI3oy:

justinh, yeah, we'll see

[10:41:54]

PsychoI3oy:

justinh, yeah, we'll see

[10:41:56]

PsychoI3oy:

gah

[10:41:57]

AndyCap:

O_o

[10:42:00]

** PsychoI3oy stabs himself **

[10:42:02]

PsychoI3oy:

sorry

[10:42:04]

justinh:

/ignore PsychoI3oy

[10:42:10]

AndyCap:

tics?

[10:42:11]

PsychoI3oy:

stupid sloppy focus

[10:42:19]

justinh:

oops forgot the -replies

[10:42:34]

PsychoI3oy:

up+enter in a term to the mythbox to try to change chanels, mouse drifted down into xchat

[10:42:46]

PsychoI3oy:

of course i was looking behind me at the tv

[10:42:49]

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[10:42:49]

justinh:

AndyCap: AFAIK on our ondemand we get it without the teasers too :)

[10:43:07]

justinh:

no point showing you what's coming up next when you're watching on-demand :)

[10:43:08]

AndyCap:

justinh: do they have them on regular programming in the UK?

[10:43:14]

justinh:

yeah on some channels

[10:43:28]

AndyCap:

only seen them in the US. and spoofed on a simpsons halloween special

[10:43:29]

justinh:

not obtrusive though

[10:43:38]

justinh:

Virgin1 does it

[10:44:12]

justinh:

actually the main terrestrial channels do it too

[10:44:24]

AndyCap:

justinh: heh, they could get the box to add the overlays so they wouldn't be out of date. :(

[10:44:26]

justinh:

though I think the BBC have stopped doing it on BBC1/2

[10:44:52]

justinh:

channel based TV is dead

[10:44:56]

justinh:

or rather, it should be

[10:45:05]

justinh:

sell us *shows*

[10:45:20]

AndyCap:

they'd still "need" to advertise their shows in some fashion

[10:45:36]

AndyCap:

justinh: there's the other view that they're really selling advertising eyeballs. :P

[10:45:48]

justinh:

yeah well.. that's entirely it

[10:45:52]

justinh:

they're not selling us shows

[10:46:01]

AndyCap:

they're selling us

[10:46:02]

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[10:46:13]

justinh:

we have the power to change that

[10:46:15]

AndyCap:

and mythtv users makes a shoddy product

[10:46:41]

justinh:

shows are only something to put on between the ads

[10:46:59]

AndyCap:

reminds me of an old whiny article about how web caching was stealing from the websites

[10:47:15]

justinh:

the other problem is that TV networks are owned by corporations who buy advertising

[10:47:42]

justinh:

or at least influenced

[10:48:40]

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[10:48:43]

justinh:

so it wouldn't even be as simple as saying "ok customer, you now pay for content you watch – no annoying ad interruptions.." cos then where would MegaGlobalCorp place their ads to make consumers aware? :-O

[10:48:53]

AndyCap:

product placements. :P

[10:49:12]

AndyCap:

which are evil, but not annoying in moderation

[10:49:16]

justinh:

that has limited use

[10:49:38]

justinh:

do HBO show ads?

[10:49:49]

AndyCap:

justinh: heh, I was wondering the same thing

[10:50:05]

AndyCap:

I see HBO has a strong brand name. :P

[10:50:14]

justinh:

I know Sky premium channels still show ads.. but they tend to be between the shows/movies

[10:50:27]

justinh:

maybe HBO do the same

[10:50:42]

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[10:50:54]

justinh:

10 years ago I wanted on-demand content & I was willing to pay fair prices. Nothing has changed

[10:51:19]

AndyCap:

nothing isn't quite fair.

[10:51:28]

AndyCap:

there are babysteps here and there

[10:51:41]

AndyCap:

shows on itunes. :/ on-demand in your STB

[10:51:53]

justinh:

£3 for a movie I'd only watch once isn't bad, but £1.99 or £2.99 for a single episode of a series is crap

[10:52:16]

Dibblah:

You don't like itoons, then?

[10:52:19]

justinh:

79p on itunes.. wouldn't be bad either if it was free of DRM

[10:52:29]

justinh:

I can't use itunes stuff on my myth frontend can I

[10:52:36]

AndyCap:

I could go to 2 quid for a show I like, but that would eat into my other spending on well, shiny discs

[10:52:48]

justinh:

2 quid an episode?!

[10:53:18]

justinh:

if it was £2 for an hour long show.. which is really an hour long.. sure

[10:53:31]

justinh:

and if you get to keep it

[10:53:54]

AndyCap:

designed to keep it, not some sneaky gray downloading tool

[10:54:01]

justinh:

exactly

[10:54:03]

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[10:54:28]

justinh:

are you listening, company execs? :-)

[10:54:31]

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[10:54:46]

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[10:54:54]

justinh:

think I remember reading that the blocker to Apple being cheaper on itunes was the studios

[10:55:08]

justinh:

but then apple would always say that

[10:55:18]

AndyCap:

[10:55:36]

justinh:

cable's cheaper than satellite

[10:55:47]

AndyCap:

justinh: not here.

[10:56:13]

AndyCap:

and apple wants you to buy the iMac, airport, appletv, iBrator

[10:56:19]

justinh:

say for 30 Rock, 24 & V ... I'd have to fork out only £11.99 a month extra

[10:56:28]

justinh:

I currently pay squat for my TV

[10:56:52]

justinh:

Sky's minimum package is more than £11.99

[10:57:15]

AndyCap:

hmm, big bang theory, V, Dark Blue ,Pacific I guess, oh, and bring back E-ring. :)

[10:57:26]

AndyCap:

justinh: all freeview?

[10:57:29]

justinh:

especially when I factor in that I need a BT phoneline.. and that's £150 just to bring it back into my house

[10:57:43]

justinh:

we've got virgin's STB too.. great for their ondemand & iplayer

[10:58:15]

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[10:59:21]

justinh:

whoah.. you know what it'd be possible for them to do but would never ever happen?

[10:59:29]

justinh:

make the STB a gateway device

[10:59:38]

AndyCap:

like a gateway drug?

[10:59:49]

justinh:

it knows what you can get channel-wise, by talking to the headend

[10:59:59]

justinh:

so just serve it out over the network

[11:00:20]

AndyCap:

heh, that would have been very nice.

[11:00:38]

AndyCap:

and shot down in flames at the first mention to the execs? :)

[11:00:47]

justinh:

if the DRM argument was all about piracy it'd be easy to get around it

[11:00:56]

justinh:

watermarking etc

[11:01:09]

justinh:

then go after the person who uploaded it

[11:01:32]

AndyCap:

I'd be comfortable with watermarking if it didn't equate to a economical death sentence

[11:01:50]

AndyCap:

i.e. no mimimum damages,

[11:01:58]

AndyCap:

more like fine

[11:02:11]

justinh:

heh

[11:02:20]

justinh:

too costly to administer I expect

[11:02:29]

justinh:

here we go.. Sky £18 a month. Minimum

[11:02:31]

AndyCap:

or just blacklist you. No more tv for 3 years

[11:02:40]

AndyCap:

:P

[11:02:46]

AndyCap:

that would be dangerous.

[11:03:09]

justinh:

so, £150 BT line, £11 a month phone line rental, plus £18 a month

[11:04:48]

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[11:05:16]

justinh:

I dunno why BT want £150 anyway. the physical line is still in my house

[11:05:28]

justinh:

£150 to reconfigure a switch

[11:05:39]

AndyCap:

justinh: to discourage you from cancelling the deal

[11:05:40]

AndyCap:

:)

[11:05:53]

AndyCap:

[11:06:06]

AndyCap:

even the guy on a remote island with no roads

[11:06:12]

justinh:

besides it should be free for customers to return .. especially if they had a good payment record

[11:06:23]

justinh:

AndyCap: nah, that's the 'reconnection fee'

[11:06:33]

justinh:

that doesn't include fitting a line

[11:06:41]

AndyCap:

justinh: so just punishment for unfaithfulness

[11:06:45]

justinh:

yup

[11:07:04]

AndyCap:

some salesman would probably be willing to waive that?

[11:07:11]

justinh:

nope

[11:07:15]

justinh:

tried already

[11:07:26]

AndyCap:

We don't have to care, we're the phone company?

[11:07:39]

justinh:

that's their basic attitude

[11:07:59]

justinh:

I moved into a flat with no phoneline, and paid BT £150 to actually fit the line from a nearby pole

[11:08:15]

justinh:

if it'd been further away it would've cost big money

[11:08:36]

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[11:08:44]

justinh:

and when I moved into my house, the BT line was there, just not connected at the exchange so I'd have to fork out £150 again

[11:10:26]

justinh:

well when I say not connected.. there's no BT account for my address. Not that there's no physical connection

[11:11:03]

AndyCap:

that's just lovely.

[11:11:06]

justinh:

oh wait it's gone down to £129

[11:11:34]

justinh:

oh and now they're saying you may not have to pay

[11:11:49]

AndyCap:

haven't ordered a phone connection in quite a while but I think there could be some leeway? with the local government monopoly

[11:12:03]

AndyCap:

they feel the competition from phone over cable and cellphones

[11:12:06]

justinh:

but "If your home has had a telephone service from BT in the recent past, and the wiring and socket is undamaged and the line still has a dial tone, it's likely you won't need to pay this charge. But where there's no suitable BT line available in your property, no dial tone on the line, or if you have been disconnected for non-payment in the past, the standard connection charge will apply."

[11:12:35]

AndyCap:

ah, so your paymentrecord does count for something. :P

[11:12:47]

justinh:

no it doesn't

[11:13:02]

justinh:

if the property has been disconnected for non-payment

[11:13:13]

justinh:

not the account holder

[11:13:30]

AndyCap:

oh, crap

[11:13:50]

justinh:

but they waive the connection fee if you take a phone, broadband & TV package from them

[11:14:02]

justinh:

which goes to show how much money they plan to milk from ya

[11:15:41]

AndyCap:

:)

[11:16:03]

justinh:

omg common sense prevails! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8629395.stm

[11:22:33]

PsychoI3oy:

figured out how to use irrecord and generated a raw output file, but it's behaving the same

[11:22:37]

PsychoI3oy:

bleh

[11:28:16]

Cap_J_L_Picard:

justinh: if you just moved in it's free to reconnect.

[11:29:15]

Cap_J_L_Picard:

justinh: they only charge for connection of second line or if the same name is ordering again at the same address.

[11:29:41]

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[11:31:45]

Cap_J_L_Picard:

justinh: If you are new owner, or new tennant in a property, it doesn't count.

[11:34:03]

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justinh:

wooo a new DVB-T2 STB from topfield has a '256 colour OSD'

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tassbur:

I'm using mythbuntu 10.04 beta 2. The problem is that when i press C to switch to another card, I lost keyboard focus, and nothing else matters ....

[14:33:01]

tassbur:

What's wrong?

[14:38:33]

wagnerrp:

youre using livetv

[14:41:14]

tassbur:

yes

[14:41:18]

tassbur:

using livetv

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[15:04:24]

wagnerrp:

tassbur: thats the problem

[15:04:52]

wagnerrp:

embrace the technology, use recordings

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[15:23:08]

wagnerrp:

cat5_at_catfive.org is a worthless being

[15:23:32]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: i think they need to be tossed onto your old hardware bonfire

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[15:26:22]

iamlindoro:

Who's that? (users list?)

[15:26:50]

wagnerrp:

yeah, reply to jya's question about passthrough usage

[15:27:08]

wagnerrp:

top post with 'P\nThis message was sent from my blackberry on the Rogers Wireless Network.'

[15:27:35]

justinh:

why must manufacturers advertise their junk in emails?

[15:27:49]

justinh:

"sent by a prick"

[15:28:05]

wagnerrp:

so you know theyre typing on a mobile device, and must be excused for their ineptitude

[15:28:11]

justinh:

riiight

[15:29:58]

AndyCap:

so cellphone raditation does make you stupider. :P

[15:30:06]

AndyCap:

radiation...

[15:30:29]

wagnerrp:

studies have actually shown it makes you smarter

[15:30:33]

justinh:

either that or it just means they're obese

[15:30:37]

AndyCap:

:P

[15:30:38]

wagnerrp:

sadly he has it in his hands, rather than against his head

[15:30:43]

justinh:

obese & their fingers are way too fat

[15:31:36]

justinh:

yeah I can see it now.. online sex chats will ask a/s/l/d from now on

[15:31:42]

wagnerrp:

apparently the cell phone radiation warms up your brain, opens up capillaries, increases oxygen flow

[15:31:47]

wagnerrp:

d? finger diameter?

[15:31:49]

justinh:

'd' meaning 'device'.. as in what are you using to chat on?

[15:32:03]

AndyCap:

justinh: a onehanded device..

[15:32:14]

justinh:

heh

[15:32:30]

justinh:

anyway, it really gets my goat whenever I see "sent from my iphone" or similar

[15:32:35]

justinh:

yeah, asshole.. rub it in

[15:33:22]

justinh:

ooo, can't wait to get an iphone so I can have a similarly annoying tag in outgoing emails too!

[15:33:44]

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[15:33:57]

wagnerrp:

you know it!

[15:34:21]

justinh:

whut? they can turn off the signature?! :-O

[15:34:27]

justinh:

and yet they choose not to?!

[15:34:47]

** justinh hates iPhone users even more **

[15:34:48]

wagnerrp:

apparently not, and apparently they cant not top-post either

[15:34:51]

AndyCap:

you can start now with "My other mail-client is an ipod" or something

[15:34:57]

AndyCap:

ipad..

[15:35:28]

wagnerrp:

there was some discussion a couple days ago how that is literally impossible

[15:35:31]

AndyCap:

they're all related to that old c64 game anyway.

[15:35:33]

AndyCap:

i-ball

[15:36:36]

justinh:

maybe just their mental prowess prevents them posting properly

[15:39:05]

skd5aner:

I always thought those "Sent from my ________ device" were meant to convey to the recipient that the brevity of the message is due to the fact that no one wants to type a detailed message on a mobile device (typically)

[15:40:16]

justinh:

hmmm

[15:40:19]

justinh:

doesn't wash

[15:40:30]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: it makes them no less of a tool

[15:40:44]

skd5aner:

useful to me to know at work, otherwise I'm not sure it's useful for listserves

[15:41:29]

wagnerrp:

if you are using such a device, you have all the same responsibility to type a complete, sensible message as you do from a normal pc

[15:41:45]

wagnerrp:

any claim otherwise is a cop out

[15:41:59]

justinh:

"please excuse the content of this message. I cannot type for s**t"

[15:42:10]

wagnerrp:

and those people who use numbers and symbols and shortened words should be drug out into the street and shot

[15:42:11]

AndyCap:

and don't be stupid and assume text volume equates to productive communications

[15:42:34]

skd5aner:

I do not expect my manager, who may be at the airport, to responsed to a time sensitive email in the same verbosity he would if he was in the office – but that's just me

[15:42:35]

wagnerrp:

im all for advancing the language with new words and structures, but thats plain awful

[15:42:49]

justinh:

skd5aner: sure, so you account for it

[15:42:51]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: no one says you have to be verbose, ever

[15:42:56]

justinh:

there's no need to explain it

[15:43:00]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: u r rite

[15:43:09]

wagnerrp:

!trout AndyCap

[15:43:09]

** MythLogBot slaps AndyCap with a trout on behalf of wagnerrp... **

[15:43:35]

AndyCap:

doh, I should have typed AOL

[15:44:06]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: full agreement with you re: numbers/symbols comment

[15:44:13]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: people should always be brief in their emails, dont type more than is needed to convey your thoughts

[15:44:14]

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[15:44:16]

justinh:

if only there was some way of getting women to be less verbose

[15:44:33]

justinh:

e.g. "good" or "bad" in response to "how was your day?"

[15:44:57]

wagnerrp:

so the only reason you would have to be excused for brevity is if you were so short you did not properly convey your opinion

[15:45:03]

AndyCap:

justinh: you'd have to recompile with debugging off

[15:45:04]

wagnerrp:

at which point you should not be excused

[15:45:08]

justinh:

AndyCap: lol

[15:45:28]

AndyCap:

justinh: and then when you did something wrong you'd really be screwed since you'd never be able to figure out why she was doing "FINE!"

[15:45:36]

wagnerrp:

AndyCap: come now, this isnt some bad 80's scifi teen flic

[15:45:44]

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[15:46:25]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: ohh, heh, now you reminded me of a movie I've never actually watched, only seen the cover of it

[15:46:43]

justinh:

weird science? I've never seen it either. nor do I ever plan to see it

[15:46:56]

wagnerrp:

'[mythtv-users] replacing commercials with private commercials'.... what?

[15:47:04]

AndyCap:

some hotel user again?

[15:47:34]

wagnerrp:

some commercial user who wants to put a tv in a waiting room

[15:47:44]

justinh:

ouch

[15:47:47]

AndyCap:

justinh: yeah, weird science looks like it. Only read the back of the VHS cover, never tickled my fancy enough to actually rent it

[15:47:57]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: why can't he just run commercial all the time? :P

[15:48:19]

wagnerrp:

why cant he just schedule people in a timely manner such that he doesnt need a waiting room

[15:48:19]

AndyCap:

and pip with cnn or whatever he's planning to abuse for programming

[15:48:47]

justinh:

heheh

[15:48:55]

justinh:

they run cartoons at my local doctor's surgery

[15:48:56]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: waiting rooms aren't always for the patient/customer/etc ;)

[15:48:58]

wagnerrp:

oop... hes another blackberry user

[15:49:05]

justinh:

problem is, they've not changed in 2 years

[15:49:08]

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[15:49:11]

AndyCap:

like, say, airport waiting rooms. :P

[15:49:44]

justinh:

well, things the way they are those places need beds more than they need TVs

[15:50:01]

skd5aner:

AndyCap: Like say, a parent taking their kid to the dentist. They often times don't go back with their kid the whole time they're getting their teeth cleaned

[15:50:22]

justinh:

wonder how much money they could make selling ads in waiting rooms

[15:50:31]

justinh:

such a dumb idea

[15:50:47]

AndyCap:

if my dentists starts selling adspace/time in the waiting room I'm out of there

[15:50:51]

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[15:50:57]

AndyCap:

it's bad enough with the toothpaste

[15:50:58]

AndyCap:

:P

[15:50:59]

justinh:

displays are so cheap now anyway.. you could just run two

[15:51:15]

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[15:51:16]

skd5aner:

justinh: I'm guessing their's a small fortune in "custom commercials" given how a good number of hotels do that

[15:51:22]

justinh:

AndyCap: hospital accident depts. here have posters plastered all over advertising personal injury lawyers

[15:51:29]

AndyCap:

O_o

[15:51:39]

skd5aner:

haha

[15:51:47]

justinh:

seriously

[15:51:51]

AndyCap:

the ambulance chasers finally found out where they all parked? :P

[15:52:07]

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[15:52:53]

justinh:

something like that

[15:53:01]

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[15:53:03]

justinh:

anyway.. I think it's hometime!

[15:53:42]

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[15:56:16]

AndyCap:

now handling bankruptcies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK2EakRwL-w

[15:56:32]

AndyCap:

He dropped the "The heavy hitter" moniker though

[15:59:21]

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[16:17:19]

tassbur:

How can i sort channels by type? Ex: tv channels on one hand, and radio channels on the other

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[16:36:16]

jarle:

tassbur: a part from getting your hands dirty in mysql I don't think that is possible.

[16:36:51]

sphery:

tassbur: you want to create your own named channel groups--i.e. "TV", "Radio", ...

[16:44:36]

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[16:52:56]

tassbur:

sphery: i'll try this first

[16:53:11]

tassbur:

jarle: this is another option...

[16:54:19]

tassbur:

bye

[16:54:25]

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[17:09:58]

sphery:

heh, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/432831#432831 is back (though seems to be different people/different country this time)

[17:12:10]

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[17:13:00]

iamlindoro:

And to the users list instead of -dev

[17:13:12]

iamlindoro:

on the users list people will probably be eager to help him circumvent copyright/ToS

[17:15:54]

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[17:21:45]

sphery:

heh

[17:22:05]

sphery:

though this time it seems a lot of people told mentioned legality/contract/service issues

[17:27:56]

dfletcher:

heh my office is next to a company that does that. they sell prebaked LCD solutions for businesses with entertainment feeds and whatever ads the client wants. Several restaurants and coffee houses in the area have em. heh though it's not NBC with custom commercials though more like broadcast "web-ertainment"

[17:28:06]

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[17:28:46]

wagnerrp:

right, its perfectly fine if you specifically license the content with the purpose of inserting your own ads

[17:29:14]

sphery:

dfletcher: yeah, I'm guessing it's like the elevator and taxi LCD's where they have the broadcast in the top-right 2/3 of the screen and ads and scrollers and ... /around/ it, right. He seems to want to display the show until a commercial break, then display his own commercials, instead.

[17:29:52]

wagnerrp:

some place like a hospital would likely be running their own cable headend, and have the authority of doing exactly that

[17:31:42]

sphery:

if so, shouldn't they also have the /equipment/ to do that?

[17:32:10]

sphery:

i.e. the same stuff a cable headend uses? the stuff that sees the markers for "insert local ads here" and abides by the broadcast/network/... policies/rules/regulations

[17:35:50]

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[17:36:44]

wagnerrp:

sphery: pretty much

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[17:47:54]

skd5aner:

"Time shifting broadcast TV in a commercial environment is illegal in

[17:47:54]

skd5aner:

the states.. No way to get around it..

[17:47:59]

skd5aner:

is that a true statement?

[17:48:23]

GreyFoxx:

Define commercial envinronment

[17:48:39]

sphery:

on the list, it was presented as in bars, etc.

[17:48:47]

GreyFoxx:

then I can sorta see it being a problem

[17:48:54]

GreyFoxx:

rebroadcasting

[17:48:55]

skd5aner:

Not sure, just grabbing that comment from the -users list...

[17:50:00]

skd5aner:

well, I just was curious about the "illegal" statement – what law says that it's ok to timeshift for personal-use, but it's illegal to timeshift in a "commercial" setting? I was just curious if that's an accurate statement

[17:51:42]

GreyFoxx:

It's considered rebroadcasting copywritten content and you are not allowed. Personal use it is for you and your household.

[17:51:46]

dfletcher:

hmm you know what? besides the shadiness of what the techie first asked in that thread, the freaking doctor is super creepy. WTF is he trying to sell to his waiting patients that he can't speak with them about?

[17:52:59]

JEDIDIAH__:

mebbe he wants to sell ads to big pharma.

[17:53:46]

skd5aner:

GreyFoxx: yea, I guess I can see it from the licensing issues around rebroadcasting content to an audience without authority/approval... just never thought about the fact that I guess it's basically the same as "time-shifting"

[17:54:41]

JEDIDIAH__:

rebroadcasting to "customers" would probably be considered public performance rather than simple fair use.

[17:55:27]

JEDIDIAH__:

if you aren't in public, it's hard for people to object.

[17:56:02]

skd5aner:

unless they had the express written consent of the <insert league/network/production house/studio here> :D

[17:56:04]

JEDIDIAH__:

If you are out in the open, then people can see you and try to charge you for any silly thing.

[17:56:52]

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[17:56:54]

JEDIDIAH__:

I have only ever seen explicit re-use permisson on educational stuff on PBS and the History channel.

[17:57:55]

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[18:05:08]

dfletcher:

ahhh IR blaster arrives today but pvr-500 not till Friday. no recording all week, boo :)

[18:07:11]

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[18:12:31]

trumee:

does myth-0.22 depend on Qt3support?

[18:12:48]

iamlindoro:

The Qt3 support in Qt4, yes

[18:13:43]

trumee:

i was building mythtv under maemo, but maemo qt package doesnt have qt3support :(

[18:14:07]

trumee:

janneg: you around?

[18:14:28]

wagnerrp:

myth itself doesnt need qt3support doe sit? isnt it just a couple of the plugins which have not yet been migrated?

[18:15:13]

iamlindoro:

There may be one or two spots in the core that used it in .22/use it

[18:15:49]

sphery:

trumee: we're slowly removing Qt3 support classes... Just make patches.

[18:16:17]

trumee:

iamlindoro: http://pastebin.com/3druxeV8

[18:16:38]

iamlindoro:

trumee: ? I said it was required... and it is

[18:16:54]

trumee:

iamlindoro: ok

[18:17:06]

sphery:

and patches are greatly appreciated

[18:17:25]

trumee:

iamlindoro: what about myth-0.23, does it have qt3support dependency?

[18:17:31]

sphery:

Qt docs even describe what to use instead

[18:17:37]

iamlindoro:

Yes

[18:18:19]

sphery:

it's just a matter of finding what stuff depends on it, then rewriting that code to use the new Qt4 approach

[18:19:12]

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[18:20:43]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/432714#432714 – Neither solution B or C make any difference... it still won't work, just letting you know as I think I've seen you give this advice before

[18:21:09]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: they both work to varying degrees

[18:21:11]

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[18:21:40]

wagnerrp:

however there are some limitations that just cant be overcome due to the way livetv and multirec work

[18:21:43]

skd5aner:

how so? In Live TV, Option C acts just the same as if you add the virtual tuners in order?

[18:22:00]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: both livetv and recordings use the first available tuner

[18:22:08]

skd5aner:

just curious, because I know it's basically put a stop to my ability to use LiveTV if anything else is recording at all

[18:22:13]

wagnerrp:

if you have the three physical tuners listed as the first three recorders

[18:22:27]

wagnerrp:

three sessions will each choose their own physical tuner

[18:22:31]

sphery:

c works if you read the post I wrote and do it as I recommend

[18:22:37]

sphery:

as 1 + 1 , it doesn't really work

[18:22:47]

sphery:

as well, I should say

[18:22:50]

sphery:

but what he'

[18:22:52]

wagnerrp:

right, see sphery's link for a better explination

[18:23:13]

wagnerrp:

!trout sphery fat-pinky

[18:23:13]

** MythLogBot slaps sphery with a fat-pinky trout on behalf of wagnerrp... **

[18:23:15]

sphery:

s now complaining about is "When I'm recording on all 3 physical tuners, Myth doesn't auto-switch cards to allow me to use all 3 muxes"

[18:23:23]

skd5aner:

will read it now, but I definitely tried the "add physical first, then come back and add the virtual" and I still exhibit the same behavior... clikcing your link now sphery

[18:23:24]

sphery:

I deserved that...

[18:23:44]

sphery:

the last approach is the best--the one that was untested at the time

[18:23:56]

sphery:

but you may need to read /everything/ to make sure you do it right

[18:24:13]

sphery:

because there are a multitude of interrelated settings that--if you set one wrong--will break everything

[18:24:13]

skd5aner:

I know the devs seem to be anti-livetv, but I still don't understand why it's considered advice to fix a problem by "stop using livetv" :P

[18:24:22]

sphery:

i.e. you'll be saying, "It doesn't work."

[18:24:48]

skd5aner:

sphery: very likely that I have one of those that probably brake that scenario

[18:25:11]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: the advice for using mythtv in general is not to use livetv

[18:25:20]

sphery:

skd5aner: the real advice is, "Stop using LiveTV or write a patch that improves MythTV and uses an approach to make LiveTV work like you want but that's also one that the developers agree works better in /all/ situations and configurations than the current."

[18:25:24]

wagnerrp:

so if youre using mythtv 'properly', there is no problem

[18:25:34]

sphery:

but if we say the last part people complain

[18:26:06]

skd5aner:

sphery: I don't care about the "when all tuners are busy let me use one of the multiplexes already in use" like the other guy – I'll be happen when livetv/multirec doesn't lock in on a card :)

[18:26:54]

sphery:

skd5aner: then follow my post--and read it all. from your description of the results, you had some related settings specified incorrectly

[18:27:13]

justinh:

is there any disadvantage to stacking up all the virtual tuners so consecutive ones aren't on the same card?

[18:27:27]

skd5aner:

I know the party line, I understand what a PVR/DVR is, and I understand why it basically obsoletes Live TV – but man, sometimes I just want to catch something random, or have background noise on, or let my guests simply "watch TV"

[18:27:56]

skd5aner:

and... I know – patches are welcome :)

[18:28:17]

justinh:

if you just want to watch TV, use something else. that's my feeling

[18:28:31]

skd5aner:

justinh: I do, I usually switch sources to the STB

[18:28:49]

wagnerrp:

justinh: i have a feeling that it might mess of the scheduler in some form when you fill up all the tuners

[18:28:50]

iamlindoro:

For what it's worth, I am all for MythTV doing Live TV well. I just don't care to do any work to make it do so since *I* don't watch Live TV

[18:29:03]

skd5aner:

justinh: it's just now my STB is connected to my HD-PVR, so myth kind of owns when the STB gets used and how at this point :(

[18:29:07]

wagnerrp:

but dont know anything more than that, due to my lack of knowledge of how the scheduler actually works

[18:29:24]

iamlindoro:

And clearly the motivated portions of the community don't care enough about it as an issue to do any work towards that end either, so it must not matter much

[18:29:30]

justinh:

but there've been more complaints about live tv since users complained about how it worked before, and it was revamped

[18:29:31]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: I respect *that* point from the developers perspective... that it's a priority of their usage...

[18:30:07]

justinh:

skd5aner: yeah *you* do. few others ever do though

[18:30:13]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: I just don't feel it's necessarily good advice when a user asks why LiveTV won't change channels (Because they don't understand what multirec even is, or it's limitations in livetv) – that the advice often is "Don't use Live TV" :(

[18:30:25]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: It *is* good advice

[18:30:31]

justinh:

the best advice comes from what people know

[18:30:52]

iamlindoro:

and given what all I just mentioned, it's a valid viewpoint too-- we don't use liveTV-- we have *no* objection to it working better, but this is all on a volunteer basis

[18:30:56]

justinh:

I've used mythtv for the best part of 5 years & I'm darned if I can spare buttons on my remote to swap inputs/sources

[18:30:59]

iamlindoro:

and you can't expect anyone to do work on stuff they don't use

[18:31:15]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: were not actually saying 'dont use livetv', were saying 'open your mind to new ways of consuming tv that a multi-recorder DVR allow'

[18:31:16]

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[18:31:41]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: ideally, you record everything that looks like it may be remotely interesting

[18:31:49]

wagnerrp:

and you provide enough recorders that you can pull that off

[18:31:52]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: And in the end, the only responses we can give are "don't use liveTV" and "provide patches"

[18:31:58]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: and either of those answers piss people off

[18:32:03]

justinh:

disk space is cheap, the scheduler is smart...

[18:32:05]

wagnerrp:

then you just watch whatever you want, when you want

[18:32:09]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: because all they *want* to hear is "I'll get right on that, sir."

[18:32:20]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro, wagnerrp: yup, exactly – I'm not sitting here complaining about the lack of effort the dev's spend on Live TV – because I understand and respect their opinion and position, just want to make sure you don't think that's what I'm doing

[18:33:29]

justinh:

like when people whine about the state of mythmusic... how many people have bothered trying to come up with new *sane* use cases?

[18:33:31]

skd5aner:

Needless to say, it is probably the "biggest" problem that I have given *my* family's usage of mythtv... even though it might be the "biggest", it's still fairly small in the grand scheme of things (again, from my perspective)

[18:33:37]

wagnerrp:

i suppose it would be worth spelling out that meaning, rather than just telling people dont use livetv

[18:34:25]

justinh:

I guess I was never a big enough consumer of television to 'get' live tv

[18:34:43]

justinh:

everything I ever used to record was on when I was out, so it got videoed

[18:35:29]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: I think we'd be thrilled to have one or more community members become truly motivated to improve live TV

[18:35:49]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: For both our sanity and our professionalism-- but given the interest of the current small group of core devs, it will likely have to come from the outside

[18:36:02]

skd5aner:

justinh: I find the craziest shows that I would never imagine to setup a recording rule for when I'm traveling – browsing in a Hotel, family's house, etc... usually just one-offs

[18:36:11]

sphery:

justinh: the reason that mythtv normally puts all virtual tuners next to each other is because that's the best approach for recording... If you're recording something on 7_1 with one virtual tuner and you need to start a recording on 7_2 on another, then using a different card (which is what would happen if the 2nd virtual tuner was on a different card) would be a waste.

[18:36:26]

skd5aner:

also, there's plenty of times when I'm just working around the house, and want something on in the background as a distraction/noise while I work, but don't want to have to give my attention to...

[18:36:30]

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[18:36:35]

skd5aner:

pretty much 98% of what I record, I want to pay attention to

[18:36:39]

justinh:

sphery: ah yeah. so it's all multirec's fault really

[18:36:57]

sphery:

that's why you should do something like 3+1 or 4+1 or whatever for configuring MythTV to "prefer" LiveTV

[18:36:58]

wagnerrp:

cool, subversion automatically merged two of my branches, polling the edits from both in a single file

[18:37:31]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: yea, understandable – it's kind of cool to see the variety of devs over the last 12–24 months that have joined the project, and their respective areas they enjoy focusing on...

[18:37:36]

skd5aner:

a lot of talent

[18:37:38]

sphery:

(which is what any livetv-"friendly" solution ends up doing... it can cause missed recordings--especially if you don't have enough "normal" virtual tuners, like with a 1+1)

[18:37:44]

sphery:

1+1 breaks recordings

[18:37:47]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: thats the problem... mythtv should record when you want to watch, it should record what you might want to watch

[18:37:58]

sphery:

3+1 breaks recordings when you have 4 concurrent recordings on the same mux

[18:38:01]

sphery:

and so on

[18:38:14]

justinh:

so there's no ideal solution then is there

[18:38:21]

sphery:

nope

[18:38:27]

sphery:

which is the whole problem

[18:38:39]

wagnerrp:

erm... shouldnt record only what you want to watch

[18:38:43]

sphery:

other than trying to outsmart the user and work around the schedu7ler

[18:38:56]

sphery:

ah, yeah, wagnerrp is right--the solution is to record everything and never use LiveTV

[18:39:09]

sphery:

but there's no /other/ solution...

[18:39:15]

wagnerrp:

see sphery's 3 years of tv backlog as an example

[18:39:18]

sphery:

at least none that we've found (even in theory)

[18:39:30]

sphery:

heh, yeah... I deleted 4 series without watching last night

[18:39:50]

sphery:

if you watch everything you record, you're not recording enough

[18:39:56]

justinh:

heck even if somebody made a new recorder class that just used a device without any pvr functions it wouldn't be for everyone

[18:40:30]

wagnerrp:

'this class has 786ms of lag, i cant use this!!!'

[18:41:29]

sphery:

I want to use my HD-PVR to allow me to play XBox 360 in high-definition, but I keep getting killed... what's up?

[18:41:43]

skd5aner:

I don't wantch everything I record – which is why I just went from 1.4TB to 3.4TBs of recording space last week :)

[18:42:42]

sphery:

my most-recent manifesto on "never use LiveTV": http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/387302#387302

[18:43:13]

wagnerrp:

wow... people have their priorities wrong

[18:43:23]

wagnerrp:

wanting to remove the local hard drive on their frontend for 'power savings'

[18:43:30]

sphery:

heh

[18:43:39]

sphery:

say 4–6W?

[18:43:42]

sphery:

that's a good idea

[18:44:03]

wagnerrp:

'sorry about that, i actually meant 4-W'

[18:44:30]

sphery:

is this on users or forum

[18:44:36]

wagnerrp:

-users

[18:44:52]

skd5aner:

Do you guys hang out on the mythtvtalk forum much?

[18:45:17]

wagnerrp:

ive started doing so the last month or so

[18:45:26]

sphery:

I only visit it to read the posts that others point out as funny :)

[18:45:26]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro and justinh are also members...

[18:45:32]

wagnerrp:

dont know of anyone other than that

[18:45:38]

justinh:

skd5aner: I used to. found very few other people hung around long. got very tiring very fast

[18:45:38]

sphery:

wagnerrp: what thread?

[18:45:40]

iamlindoro:

I try to ignore it on the whole

[18:45:50]

skd5aner:

hmmm, I knew justinh has been there for a while, but a few years back it didn't seem too active

[18:46:00]

justinh:

all the new posts tend to be pretty clueless dolts tbh

[18:46:12]

wagnerrp:

sphery: latest post on the 'thank you' thread

[18:46:20]

sphery:

thank you

[18:46:22]

sphery:

:)

[18:46:38]

wagnerrp:

i think hes even talking about removing the laptop drive out of a ION system

[18:46:51]

wagnerrp:

dont those things idle at a few hundred mW?

[18:46:52]

sphery:

(I hadn't been reading that past the first)

[18:46:52]

justinh:

sphery: vitamin water ;-)

[18:47:01]

nutron:

diskless frontend is a good idea, providing that your nfs mounts in the back have a good raid/backup system, it's better to offload the cheap storage in a central system. For power savings... nah.. though I do spin down 12 drives in a storage group when not being used.

[18:47:07]

skd5aner:

I usually like the forum format over listserves, but in this case I think the mythtv listserv is way more established and mature

[18:47:12]

sphery:

justinh: well, you wouldn't serve your friends food that will kill them :)

[18:47:29]

sphery:

beers and the like... that's just mean

[18:47:34]

justinh:

hmph. if I was a big user of transcoding I'd see about putting the error reporting right. bitmasks are not user-friendly

[18:48:00]

sphery:

nutron: agreed--it's /not/ a good idea for power savings

[18:48:07]

sphery:

especially if it's a laptop HDD

[18:48:10]

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[18:48:22]

sphery:

(what are those... 2W at idle/spinning?)

[18:48:42]

wagnerrp:

nutron: agreed, its only worthwhile for not having to purchase the drives in the first place

[18:48:49]

sphery:

yeah

[18:48:54]

skd5aner:

I actually have a laptop HDD in my frontend, but the main goal was noise at the time

[18:49:06]

wagnerrp:

although now i use it more for easy management, rather than any sense of cheapness

[18:49:16]

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[18:49:23]

nutron:

heh, well I don't know these days, I did just buy a kill-a-watt to see what I'm saving when spinning down numerous drives, but I'm waiting for squeeze to update a few packages to try the new .23 before I start re-thinking the setup

[18:49:47]

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sphery:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/energy-disk-drive,1944.html + http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/energy-di . . . 1944-10.html for not-too-ancient 3.5" desktop drives

[18:51:37]

sphery:

shows 3.1 to 7.7W idle usage. I think new 2TB ones are lower than that.

[18:52:06]

justinh:

definitely a much bigger cost saving to never buy the hdd in the 1st place ;)

[18:52:13]

sphery:

yeah

[18:52:18]

wedgeshot:

Is there any big differences that would cause ubuntu 9.10 running mythfrontend 0.22.0+fixes22594–0ubuntu1 to segfault when selecting watch videos from a gentoo server backend mythtv-0.22_p23069 ?

[18:52:29]

justinh:

like you don't buy SSDs to save money on power consumption

[18:53:23]

justinh:

wedgeshot: oooo mixed distros and versions. arghhh

[18:53:35]

justinh:

wedgeshot: prolly doesn't have much bearing on things though

[18:54:32]

wedgeshot:

It is really strange though..... maybe I'll give 10.04 LTS a run soon to ... I don't really want to run gentoo on the client side

[18:55:31]

wedgeshot:

I do have a mac mini running MythFrontend-release-0-22-fixes-20091118_Rev.22840 AOk though....

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johnnyj:

hola

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justinh:

good grief! what has happened to minimyth?! :-O the config file is like whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[20:13:15]

iamlindoro:

Heh, I'm at 666 lifetime Myth commits

[20:13:31]

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[20:16:29]

kormoc:

BURN iamlindoro! He's the devil!

[20:17:13]

iamlindoro:

If I'm the devil, burning me won't help :)

[20:17:19]

** kormoc laughs **

[20:17:31]

kormoc:

How true... FREEZE HIM! He's the devil! ;)

[20:17:42]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: so didja catch Dr. Who?

[20:17:45]

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[20:17:46]

wagnerrp:

can we steal your hands?

[20:17:58]

wagnerrp:

replace them with puny fleshy ones?

[20:17:59]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: We can make a bong out of his horn!

[20:17:59]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Yeah, new hottie companion is hottie

[20:18:15]

iamlindoro:

And new Doctor is acceptable so far

[20:18:19]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: Indeed. I'm suddenly much more interested in the kiss-o-grams

[20:18:33]

iamlindoro:

Who da man!?

[20:18:38]

** kormoc laughs **

[20:18:55]

kormoc:

Yeah, some decent moments, but so many fond memories of past doctors

[20:18:59]

** wagnerrp has to wait for them to show up on syfy **

[20:19:25]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: BBCA is pretty worth it between Dr Who and Top Gear

[20:19:26]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Will be interested to see in the coming weeks, but I am encouraged by the fact that the new show runner wrote and directed the best episodes of the past few seasons

[20:19:54]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: not offered on analog cable

[20:20:07]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: the nerve!

[20:20:16]

wagnerrp:

one of the PBS stations plays bits of BBCA, but i think its primarily their news shows

[20:22:10]

skd5aner:

The Devil's hands are idle playthings

[20:24:39]

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[20:24:54]

justinh:

fwiw the last episode aired here was a bit MEH

[20:24:57]

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[20:25:00]

justinh:

daleks are back :-\

[20:25:23]

wagnerrp:

i thought they killed them all last season

[20:25:42]

kormoc:

back or back in time to when they were still around?

[20:26:08]

justinh:

it doesn't matter. they always have some contrived way to bring them back

[20:26:40]

kormoc:

"Those weren't explosions, they were firewords!"

[20:26:46]

kormoc:

*fireworks

[20:27:00]

justinh:

anyway, blitz street is in the box for later. they build a street & blow it up with WW2 bombs

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[20:36:17]

johnnyj:

iamlindoro: i know i'm in for a good episode if it's Russel T. Davies

[20:36:33]

justinh:

eew

[20:36:33]

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[20:38:18]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, eww

[20:41:05]

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[20:41:43]

johnnyj:

what? he wrote The Sound of Drums and Last of the Time Lords

[20:42:00]

johnnyj:

and gridlock

[20:42:07]

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[20:44:21]

iamlindoro:

Those were pretty bad :)

[20:44:32]

iamlindoro:

The new guy wrote "Blink" and "The Girl in the Fireplace"

[20:44:54]

johnnyj:

indeed – those were awesome

[20:44:59]

johnnyj:

what's his name?

[20:45:06]

wagnerrp:

george

[20:45:29]

iamlindoro:

Stephen Moffatt I think

[20:49:00]

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[20:49:21]

johnnyj:

did any of you catch Being Human?

[20:55:34]

justinh:

the last one aired here was penned by Mark Gatiss, who wrote "the lonely child"

[20:56:22]

johnnyj:

i miss the old days when had to watch them on PBS and at 1am on a Monday morning

[20:56:35]

johnnyj:

and they were 1.5 long

[20:56:48]

justinh:

I miss the old days when there were only 3 channels

[20:56:58]

johnnyj:

more intrigue and less explosions

[20:57:25]

justinh:

ah but at least this new lot of Dr Who doesn't have any awful Roger Limb 'music'

[20:57:43]

johnnyj:

this is true

[20:58:18]

justinh:

tried watching a Jon Pertwee season a while back.. ugh. the soundtrack was just bleeps & farts

[20:58:48]

johnnyj:

yes having the ability to skip forward in those can be a blessing

[20:59:25]

johnnyj:

but back in the day I'd be working on another project at the same time so it was ok for it to sometimes drag on and on

[20:59:34]

justinh:

cut an episode of flash forward to 5 minutes long :D

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[21:13:32]

sdkov:

Hi everyone. Now that 0.23-fixes seems to be pretty stable, is there any estimate on when the official 0.23 release will occur?

[21:13:42]

iamlindoro:

No estimate

[21:14:26]

sdkov:

ok. fair enough. Thanks.

[21:14:32]

iamlindoro:

np

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[21:22:53]

Jester05:

hey guys, can I ask a personal question of you.. if you had recently graduated and could not find a job in CO but had a job offer where you live, in OH, but really wanted to move to CO.. would you take the offer in OH or just try to move out to CO and work an odd job until a career position opens?.. Note: I have a BS in Elect. Engineering..

[21:23:22]

bjd:

co?

[21:23:26]

wagnerrp:

colorado

[21:23:50]

bjd:

take the offer

[21:23:50]

Jester05:

yes

[21:24:11]

wagnerrp:

you just graduated, take a job where you can

[21:24:13]

sdkov:

It would depend on what the position in OH offers you in experience, salary, and growth opportunities.

[21:24:15]

Jester05:

I would love to move to Colorado but.. seems like the only job I can find so far is here in Ohio, at the company I've worked for all thru college

[21:24:19]

bjd:

get experience, save up money the move to CO with a wad of cash knowing you can get a better job with that experience :P

[21:24:21]

wagnerrp:

build up some experience, and then you can be more choosy

[21:24:28]

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[21:24:29]

sdkov:

agree – experience is key

[21:24:49]

Jester05:

I already have 4.5 years of experience in the building design industry

[21:25:11]

Jester05:

I'd been trying to find a job in R&D but I think I'm going to push alot heavier on the building design industry for out west

[21:25:52]

kormoc:

Jester05: in this economy, play it safe

[21:25:57]

Jester05:

figure if I can't be doing R&D out west, might as well try getting a job in my field of expertise out there

[21:26:07]

Jester05:

yeah I know but I'm afraid if I don't relocate I never will

[21:26:11]

Jester05:

and I HATE ohio

[21:26:31]

Jester05:

it doesn't fit my life style at all.. I love backpacking, mt biking, kayaking, etc .. Ohio offers virtually none of that

[21:26:49]

wagnerrp:

move east

[21:26:53]

wagnerrp:

and/or south

[21:27:23]

Jester05:

Been trying that too.. for R&D that is.. need to start throwing resume's around in my field I guess

[21:27:41]

Jester05:

but ultimately.. would you guys continue living in a state you hate or try to get out?

[21:29:23]

kormoc:

I packed up into a car and drove into the sunset and by the grace of god it somehow worked out, but knowing how close it was to being entirely different, I wouldn't do it again without a lot more prep and sure things awaiting

[21:30:03]

Jester05:

hmm.. thats what I was considering doing lol

[21:30:15]

sphery:

if kormoc moved east, would he have driven into the sunrise or driven away from the sunset...

[21:30:25]

Jester05:

ahaha

[21:30:29]

Jester05:

brb dogs going nuts..

[21:30:41]

kormoc:

sphery: "Into the new day" :P

[21:30:48]

sphery:

very poetic

[21:31:01]

sphery:

this is why I'm not a best-selling author

[21:31:08]

wagnerrp:

sphery: now if kormoc drives to the east, he'll drive off a hill into the bay

[21:31:17]

Jester05:

haha

[21:31:20]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[21:31:36]

wagnerrp:

of course he would still be headed towards that sunset

[21:31:56]

** sphery wants lzlib 1.0 to go final **

[21:31:56]

Jester05:

man.. stupid neighbor dog starts barking at my GSD and gets him going then it just gets worse lol

[21:32:22]

AndyCap:

the mutt's nuts? :)

[21:32:27]

sphery:

then, with both lzip and plzip (where the latter requires lzlib), we can all stop using xz

[21:32:50]

wagnerrp:

my dad just shoots the neighbor's dogs

[21:33:06]

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[21:33:08]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: what bout their kids?

[21:33:20]

Jester05:

haha

[21:33:21]

Jester05:

haha

[21:33:26]

wagnerrp:

it was birdshot in a pistol round, nothing that would even penetrate the skin

[21:33:27]

Jester05:

sorry.. that was funny kormoc

[21:33:36]

wagnerrp:

4am, barking right outside their window

[21:33:56]

Jester05:

I would start blaring music at their house at 3:30am

[21:34:06]

wagnerrp:

thing didnt know what hit him, shut him up for a couple seconds as it looked around confused

[21:34:13]

wagnerrp:

started barking again, so he shot it again

[21:34:23]

wagnerrp:

it finally got the message and walked off

[21:34:49]

Jester05:

lol

[21:34:55]

johnnyj:

those supersonic ringtones work well to run off pesky children

[21:34:57]

Jester05:

just kick it?

[21:35:05]

johnnyj:

if you can play them loud enough

[21:35:11]

wagnerrp:

nah, he did that to their cat when it walked into their grarage

[21:35:21]

wagnerrp:

launched it... it came back in a second time

[21:35:23]

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[21:35:26]

wagnerrp:

they had some REALLY stupid pets

[21:35:41]

Jester05:

well maybe you should just shoot them for real?

[21:35:44]

Jester05:

that'll take care of it

[21:36:09]

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[21:36:57]

Jester05:

any of you want to take a look at my resume and tell me what you think?

[21:38:01]

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[21:38:18]

iamlindoro:

Does it sound like a good idea to get advice from strangers of questionable intent and skill?

[21:38:22]

iamlindoro:

on the internet?

[21:38:40]

Jester05:

lol

[21:38:53]

Jester05:

eh I'm not too scared.. everyone in here seems to be of decent character

[21:38:58]

Jester05:

well minus wagnerrp ;) jk

[21:39:01]

kormoc:

Jester05: you really need folks in your field to look at it

[21:39:10]

johnnyj:

wow – now there's a blanket statement

[21:39:13]

** wagnerrp heads toward the gun cabinet **

[21:39:16]

bjd:

but ... everyone is an expert on the internet

[21:39:19]

Jester05:

haha

[21:39:50]

kormoc:

Jester05: each field has their own best practices/etc. It's a sure fire fail to take other fields best practices into your resume

[21:40:08]

** wagnerrp is from kentucky, where everyone is fully prepared for WW3... and the zombie apocalypse **

[21:40:32]

Jester05:

guys a simple no I don't want to do it is fine

[21:40:44]

sphery:

is everyone an expert on the internet or is everyone on the internet an expert

[21:40:47]

Jester05:

I was just looking for simply pointers like, spelling lol

[21:40:57]

johnnyj:

there are scripts for that

[21:40:58]

kormoc:

that's what spellcheck is fore...

[21:40:58]

sphery:

I know Al Gore is an expert on the internet...

[21:41:02]

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[21:41:03]

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[21:41:04]

** kormoc shifty eyes **

[21:41:06]

Jester05:

anyone who uses MythTV and IRC are experts .. at everything

[21:41:07]

johnnyj:

...and they don't talk back

[21:41:12]

wagnerrp:

of course, he created it.... when it was four...

[21:41:15]

sphery:

And Ted Stevens...

[21:41:33]

wagnerrp:

he the one who helped with the plumbing?

[21:41:33]

Jester05:

lol

[21:41:42]

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[21:41:44]

johnnyj:

a series of tubes?

[21:42:00]

kormoc:

Jester05: needs more large scale HA database experience

[21:42:02]

sphery:

I should really either work on the myth patches I planned to work on or quit interjecting completely unrelated/unimportant comments into conversations on here

[21:42:18]

** bjd cracks the whip **

[21:42:25]

johnnyj:

sphery: so got anything else I can look into working on a patch for?

[21:42:25]

sphery:

maybe both--but without doing any work on MythTV, I should be more on-topic

[21:42:35]

wagnerrp:

yeah, even im back to committing

[21:42:43]

sphery:

johnnyj: wanna fix the channel icon downloader in mythtv-setup? :)

[21:42:53]

** kormoc evil eyes his directtv receiver **

[21:43:01]

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[21:43:18]

Jester05:

lol

[21:43:23]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, saw the versioning stuff... sounds good

[21:43:37]

johnnyj:

sphery: i'm trying to find a ticket on that

[21:43:42]

johnnyj:

is there one?

[21:43:45]

wagnerrp:

well that one line doesnt count

[21:43:46]

sphery:

don't know

[21:43:57]

sphery:

it's kind of the well-ignored project no one wants to tackle

[21:44:27]

johnnyj:

i'm game – can you define the problem?

[21:44:35]

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[21:44:39]

wagnerrp:

sphery: im actually reworking a bunch of the internals, about to fire them off to RDV_Linux with patches for his stuff for testing

[21:44:58]

johnnyj:

i wasn't real happy with the channel icon downloader but I was able to get it working

[21:45:48]

sphery:

johnnyj: yeah, it may be more of a "needs thrown out and rewritten from scratch" type fix... not necessarily a "doesn't work," but a "really needs redesigned"

[21:47:20]

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[21:47:44]

johnnyj:

sphery: i'll look it over

[21:48:33]

sphery:

johnnyj: might want to ask some others what the plan is on it

[21:48:49]

sphery:

maybe iamlindoro and gbee...

[21:49:29]

johnnyj:

sure thing

[21:49:46]

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[21:50:18]

johnnyj:

i was thinking it would be nice to move it into the web interface

[21:50:38]

johnnyj:

instead of requiring to stop the backend and run setup

[21:50:53]

Jester05:

bah.. I still have to get on producing that tethering program for the Motorola Droid..

[21:51:09]

iamlindoro:

unless you mean the web server provided by the backend itself, that won't work

[21:51:14]

iamlindoro:

ie, not mythweb

[21:51:44]

iamlindoro:

Adding things to MythWeb is fine as a supplemental functionality, but it shouldn't be required to perform a core function

[21:51:57]

johnnyj:

channel icons are core functions?

[21:52:09]

sphery:

TV is a core function

[21:52:24]

iamlindoro:

Fetching channel icons is a core functionality, yes

[21:52:25]

sphery:

TV uses channel icons when available and 99.993% of users want them available

[21:52:27]

johnnyj:

i ran for months without icons

[21:52:35]

johnnyj:

oh

[21:52:56]

iamlindoro:

johnnyj: I'm just telling you the way it is. Taking it out of mythtv-setup is not an option unless you put it somewhere else that you can do it without installing a plugin

[21:53:12]

sphery:

but the idea of being able to send a request to the mbe to download the channel icon and store it so it can then send it to remote frontends /is/ a desired approach

[21:53:14]

iamlindoro:

meaning the backend's own web server, or the FE

[21:53:34]

sphery:

and you could do that with MythXML or myth proto

[21:53:56]

sphery:

or have the frontend download it and write it to the mbe with RemoteFile...

[21:53:57]

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[21:53:59]

iamlindoro:

Captain M has plans for a backend downloader, which would be the ideal way to perform the download itseld

[21:54:03]

iamlindoro:

itself

[21:54:11]

iamlindoro:

that, plus Icon SGs...

[21:54:12]

sphery:

yeah, sounds like it

[21:54:16]

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[21:54:58]

johnnyj:

i'm chewing on all that

[21:55:44]

johnnyj:

ok – i think I should just start by reading the existing code

[21:56:12]

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[21:56:14]

johnnyj:

i sort of wanted a way to do the icons without needing to stop the backend to do it

[21:56:38]

johnnyj:

which was a part of why i went w/o them for so long

[21:56:41]

iamlindoro:

You can already do the icons without stopping the backend

[21:56:48]

sphery:

Would almost be nice to be able to just insert a URI in the DB instead of a local icon... If it's a URI, it first checks for <filename> (name at end of URI) in icon dir, if not there, it attempts to download it. Still doesn't fix any of the icon picker stuff

[21:56:55]

iamlindoro:

You just have to ignore the "some things won't take effect until a restart"

[21:57:09]

sphery:

then if you restored your DB and didn't move channel icons, it would re-get them

[21:57:53]

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[21:57:56]

iamlindoro:

sphery: I like that

[21:58:00]

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

[21:58:07]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Maybe I'll steal that for MV

[21:58:35]

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[21:58:39]

sphery:

heh, well, I am just an idea guy... :)

[21:58:48]

sphery:

now implement, all you minions!

[21:59:02]

sphery:

<-- truly understands FOSS

[22:00:18]

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[22:02:32]

sphery:

nice, all those series I deleted last night cleared 228GiB from my HDD's

[22:02:52]

sphery:

er, 326GiB

[22:03:00]

sphery:

forgot to carry the 1

[22:03:03]

johnnyj:

i heard this channel was logged – is that somewhere I can review this later?

[22:03:31]

sphery:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/IRC -> http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1/history

[22:04:10]

johnnyj:

thanks

[22:04:13]

johnnyj:

gotta run

[22:05:19]

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[22:05:25]

sphery:

johnnyj: http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1/2010 . . . -19:18:04:13

[22:06:43]

johnnyj:

even better

[22:06:44]

sphery:

of course, that link doesn't include the comment, above, so: http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1/2010 . . . -19:18:05:24

[22:06:55]

sphery:

of course, that link doesn't include the comment, above, so...

[22:06:56]

sphery:

wait.

[22:07:20]

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[22:07:41]

sphery:

johnnyj: Oh, also, channel.icon is 255chars, so it could reasonably hold most (sane) URI's.

[22:11:55]

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[22:29:47]

sphery:

Beirdo: Didn't you have some ideas on ways to take the contrib stuff that requires multiple files (like contrib/channel_changers/dct-channel , which is a C app with *.{c,h} and Makefile and stuff, and contrib/remotes/tkmythremote , which has a bunch of PNG's for buttons) out of contrib since the wiki isn't ideal for it?

[22:30:01]

sphery:

some place to host tars or something?

[22:35:27]

Jester05:

hey guys

[22:35:55]

Jester05:

the weather is PERFECT in ohio right now.. for once :-\ lol Who's up for grilling out???

[22:38:12]

clever:

first time in a long while, myth ran the hdd into the ground, 32kb free

[22:38:16]

kormoc:

Jester05: about 10k of us will show up, why don't you run out and buy a few hundred lbs of beef and a few dozen kegs and wait for us to get there

[22:38:54]

Jester05:

lol

[22:41:27]

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[22:41:33]

clever:

dont think my patch is working right

[22:41:47]

clever:

it had 2 drives over 5gig free, and it went nuts and decided to fill the drive with mythconverg

[22:42:05]

clever:

and there is over 400gig on auto-expire

[22:42:11]

clever:

on the 'wrong' SG's

[22:49:56]

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[22:49:59]

dekenx:

hello, I am trying to set up my pvr-150 with MythTv, mplayer seems to play tv just fine with backend running, however I cant "Watch TV" in mythv

[22:50:12]

sphery:

heh, you seem to have just noticed :)

[22:50:36]

dekenx:

yeah

[22:50:47]

sphery:

dekenx: you'll need to post the end of your mythbackend and/or mythfrontend log files to a pastebin

[22:50:55]

sphery:

end meaning 100+ lines of logging

[22:51:08]

dekenx:

which ones exactly? terminal output or others?

[22:51:09]

sphery:

showing an attempt to watch LiveTV

[22:51:19]

sphery:

terminal output is fine if you're not logging to a file

[22:51:35]

sphery:

if you're logging to a file, there's likely no terminal output

[22:51:49]

dekenx:

im not but I will

[22:51:52]

dekenx:

one second

[22:53:10]

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[22:53:14]

sphery:

either way works

[22:53:22]

sphery:

we just need to see the output

[22:53:23]

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[22:56:48]

dekenx:

frontend: mythtv.pastebin.ca/1868663

[22:57:37]

dekenx:

backend: mythtv.pastebin.ca/1868664

[22:58:05]

dekenx:

that should be it

[22:59:19]

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[23:01:14]

sphery:

dekenx: it's the socket errors causing issues

[23:01:20]

sphery:

dekenx: what version of MythTV is this?

[23:01:37]

sphery:

dekenx: pastebin the output of the following, please: mythbackend --version

[23:01:52]

sphery:

ah, nvm... it will say unknown

[23:02:30]

dekenx:

mythtv-23562–2 is the package

[23:03:03]

sphery:

which distro (out of curiosity--they need to fix their build scripts to export proper version info)

[23:03:04]

dekenx:

and yes the command says unknown though

[23:03:12]

dekenx:

arch linux

[23:03:40]

sphery:

dekenx: the problem is you've configured some IP address as 127.0.0.1

[23:03:52]

sphery:

you don't want 127.0.0.1 or localhost anywhere in your configuration

[23:04:00]

dekenx:

it should be 192.168.1.168

[23:04:05]

sphery:

go to mythtv-setup General on every single host and change it to ^^^

[23:04:19]

dekenx:

i think i tried that but ill check again

[23:04:35]

sphery:

2010-04–20 06:54:53.672 MediaServer:: Loopback address specified – 127.0.0.1. Disabling UPnP

[23:04:38]

sphery:

#

[23:04:40]

sphery:

2010-04–20 06:55:27.962 MythContext: Connecting to backend server: 127.0.0.1:6543 (try 1 of 1)

[23:04:44]

sphery:

something somewhere has 127.0.0.1 in there

[23:05:02]

sphery:

but check all IP addresses on all hosts

[23:05:13]

sphery:

and make sure you put addresses--no hostnames--when it asks for addresses

[23:05:15]

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[23:09:09]

wagnerrp:

upnp-based capture devices?

[23:10:37]

dekenx:

frontend: mythtv.pastebin.ca/1868689

[23:10:47]

dekenx:

i changed the 127.0.0.1

[23:10:54]

dekenx:

still same problem

[23:11:17]

sphery:

which system/setting had 127.0.0.1

[23:11:26]

iamlindoro:

We need backend logs

[23:11:28]

iamlindoro:

not FE

[23:11:38]

sphery:

yeah, frontend is working better, now

[23:11:43]

sphery:

backend is where the problem is

[23:12:38]

dekenx:

ok wait ill get new log

[23:13:48]

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[23:14:13]

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[23:14:34]

dekenx:

backend: mythtv.pastebin.ca/1868693

[23:15:00]

sphery:

2010-04–20 07:13:52.572 SG(LiveTV) Error: Unable to find any Storage Group Directories. Using hardcoded default value of '/mnt/store'

[23:15:08]

sphery:

dekenx: gotta configure your backend in mythtv-setup

[23:15:22]

dekenx:

i am using mysql databases btw

[23:15:24]

sphery:

specifically Storage Groups (and specifically, specifically, Default storage group)

[23:15:49]

iamlindoro:

mysql is the only datbase you *can* use ;)

[23:15:58]

sphery:

shut down all frontends and backends, then on the master backend, start mythtv-setup and configure the backend

[23:16:13]

dekenx:

i didnt congifure storage groups, i manually configure mysql database via: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MythTV_HOWTO

[23:16:26]

dekenx:

but ill try your way now

[23:16:29]

sphery:

you /must/ configure storage groups

[23:16:36]

sphery:

MythTV won't work without them

[23:16:58]

dekenx:

i did mythfilldatabase from command-line

[23:17:04]

sphery:

storage groups are for storing recording files... mysql is for storing settings/program info/...

[23:17:06]

kormoc:

there's no manual configuration on that page you linked

[23:17:10]

iamlindoro:

we don't *want* you to run mythfilldatabse...

[23:17:16]

sphery:

mythtv-setup

[23:17:16]

iamlindoro:

we want you to configure myth properly

[23:17:22]

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[23:17:28]

iamlindoro:

which means doing what sphery has told you like three times now

[23:17:34]

sphery:

dekenx: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MythTV_HOWTO#Backend_setup

[23:17:43]

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[23:17:48]

sphery:

specifically, "Setting up the master backend: Start up X, if you haven't already: ... Run the mythtv-setup program"

[23:17:56]

sphery:

then go through /all/ the parts of that

[23:18:11]

iamlindoro:

Though those docs also miss storage groups

[23:18:20]

iamlindoro:

and as such, are wrong

[23:18:26]

sphery:

heh, ok, + do storage groups :)

[23:18:37]

iamlindoro:

Then go and fix their docs for them

[23:19:06]

sphery:

dekenx: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-9.html#ss9.1

[23:19:11]

dekenx:

so I do Create DB Backups group right?

[23:19:24]

sphery:

DB Backups storage group is optional

[23:19:25]

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[23:19:30]

sphery:

(and doesn't get used except on upgrade)

[23:19:41]

iamlindoro:

Think about what you are trying to do (record TV) and then create the group that seems to make sense

[23:19:55]

sphery:

just the dir you want mythtv to use for doing automatic DB backups before upgrading your database

[23:19:58]

iamlindoro:

Minimally, create the default group

[23:20:01]

dekenx:

they which storage geoup do I choose

[23:20:03]

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[23:20:06]

dekenx:

ok

[23:20:07]

sphery:

default

[23:20:18]

** kormoc blinks **

[23:20:19]

iamlindoro:

This must be a dir that *exists* and the backend user has permissions to write to

[23:20:38]

sphery:

and should not be the root of any file system

[23:20:56]

sphery:

or a mount point

[23:21:06]

sphery:

always a sub directory

[23:21:34]

kormoc:

I should change mine someday

[23:22:23]

dekenx:

ok thank you

[23:22:25]

dekenx:

works now

[23:22:26]

sphery:

Yeah, it's a life saver when your file system(s) don't mount properly

[23:22:44]

dekenx:

btw how, do I get better quality, its jittery

[23:22:53]

iamlindoro:

please do update that wiki page with the missing instructions

[23:22:54]

dekenx:

(thanks a lot guys)

[23:22:59]

sphery:

dekenx: is this vanilla Arch or is it LinHES?

[23:23:01]

dekenx:

i will

[23:23:07]

iamlindoro:

quality and jitter refer to different attributes

[23:23:07]

dekenx:

vanilla

[23:23:18]

sphery:

LinHES may be a better option for just getting started

[23:23:21]

iamlindoro:

so you'll need to explain what you mean by jitter

[23:23:37]

dekenx:

hard to explain, just very bad with streaks

[23:23:38]

** kormoc sighs as this rm -rf looks like it'll take 3 days **

[23:23:49]

kormoc:

dekenx: enable a deinterlacer

[23:23:53]

dekenx:

blue line at top also

[23:23:56]

iamlindoro:

very bad with streaks doesn't tell us a whole lot

[23:24:14]

dekenx:

kormoc: how do I do that? (im pretty sure thats it)

[23:24:25]

kormoc:

dekenx: check the wiki page on deinterlacers?

[23:24:43]

sphery:

dekenx: change your playback profile group from CPU+ to Slim

[23:24:48]

iamlindoro:

If he doesn't know how to change it, odds are he hasn't changed the default, which means he should already be using deint

[23:24:59]

iamlindoro:

that said, it could still be a Playback profile issue

[23:25:00]

sphery:

but he's using CPU+, which is horrid

[23:25:02]

iamlindoro:

indeed

[23:25:05]

sphery:

especially with broken drivers

[23:25:18]

iamlindoro:

though a better description of the actual problem would have been nice

[23:25:24]

kormoc:

Rule 1 of #mythtv-users, always listen to sphery over kormoc

[23:25:30]

sphery:

heh, not true

[23:25:31]

iamlindoro:

Utilities/Setup->Setup->Tv Settings->Playback, page three

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iamlindoro:

remembering to go all the way through to "Finish" and not just escape out

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sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Packages where distributions are the best way to get started

[23:26:59]

dekenx:

im not using this distro for actual viewing or work, its a server

[23:27:09]

dekenx:

i was just testing backend

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kormoc:

124,431,614 files to go, whee! I love huge deletes!

[23:27:47]

dekenx:

my other problem is channel info, I have done a channel scan but it comes out Unknown for all of them

[23:28:00]

kormoc:

dekenx: where in the world are you and what is your source?

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dekenx:

kormoc: eastern canada, through cable

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kormoc:

dekenx: schedulesdirect.org

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kormoc:

you don't scan

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sphery:

kormoc: quite the delete!

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sphery:

I'm guessing that's not recordings you're deleting? :)

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kormoc:

sphery: yeah it's my personal record! :)

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kormoc:

sphery: nah, work cleanup :)

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sphery:

dekenx: right, you only scan digital channels

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dekenx:

okay thanks

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dekenx:

kormoc: but there's no free way to get channel listings right?

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iamlindoro:

in north america, that is correct

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sphery:

as doing so would be illegal/in violation of copyright laws and/or terms of service of data owners/etc.

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dekenx:

hmm, strange I recall using gbpvr on windows a while ago with a TV guide

[23:40:36]

iamlindoro:

depends on how a while ago it was

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sphery:

like I said, would be illegal/in violation/...

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iamlindoro:

if more than a couple years, they might have been using zap2it labs, which was closed because people thought it was okay to rip them off and sell products based on free data

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iamlindoro:

any time since, it's likely stolen

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sphery:

if it was many years ago, it may have been free (of charge) and legal, but if was after Zap2It Labs was taken down, it was the stolen data that many on the gbpvr fora were recommending people steal

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sphery:

which iamlindoro said /way/ before me

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dekenx:

yeah it was many years ago

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iamlindoro:

I wonder if it's "forae"

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iamlindoro:

nope, it's fora

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iamlindoro:

anyway, at $20/year you are getting the same data tivo users pay $15/month for, so not a bad deal all told, and well worth it

[23:44:54]

sphery:

AIUI, originally, we (XMLTV users) "stole" data from Zap2It.com (in violation of their ToS), then Zap2It politely asked us to stop web-scraping /and/ provided a SOAP-based approach to get more and better data free of charge just so we wouldn't kill their servers. They kept that service operating as long as they could, but when money got tight after the Internet bubble burst, they had to stop. Then, MythTV developers and some ...

[23:45:00]

sphery:

... devs from other FOSS projects got together and created a not-for-profit company that licenses the data from Tribute Media Services and resells it to individual users (something that TMS was unwilling to do).

[23:45:05]

dekenx:

now, im trying to connect my mvp box through mvpmc but am getting MainServer::HandleVersion – Client speaks protocol version 8 but we speak 50

[23:45:23]

sphery:

Since then, both XMLTV and MythTV are /far/ more concerned about not only legality, but also respecting the Terms of Service of data/site/service operators.

[23:45:49]

iamlindoro:

dekenx, Right, your mvp box doesn't speak the right protocol version

[23:46:03]

iamlindoro:

dekenx, If they provide a frontend version that does, you can use it, otherwise you are out of luck

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dekenx:

not sure what that means by "protocal"

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dekenx:

how can I check

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iamlindoro:

protocol is the "language" spoken by myth tv

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wagnerrp:

dekenx: the 'protocol' is what the frontend and backend use to communicate

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sphery:

after all, what possible problems could come of pretending to understand the protocol and the data that's used by MythTV

[23:46:27]

iamlindoro:

I don't know, we don't have any relationship with mvpmc

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wagnerrp:

its currently at version 54 in 0.23

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dekenx:

mvpmc is made to be used with mythtv though

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sphery:

not made well, though

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sphery:

:)

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iamlindoro:

mvpmc isn't written by us

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wagnerrp:

dekenx: its made to be used with mythtv 0.15 or so

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iamlindoro:

and to work, needs to speak the proper protocol

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sphery:

meaning that they pretend to speak the protocol even though they don't

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wagnerrp:

a version way back in ~'03

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sphery:

and they have great potential to cause catastrophic consequences

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iamlindoro:

What we're saying is, we don't write it, anddon't know anything about it, and to get help with it, you'll have to ask whoever does

[23:47:26]

dekenx:

so basically I need to downgrade mythtv?

[23:47:36]

wagnerrp:

no, you need to stop using that device

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sphery:

no, you can't go back to protocol 8

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wagnerrp:

or upgrade the softwar4e

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sphery:

you need to get a real frontend :)

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iamlindoro:

Good luck finding a version of myth that speaks protocol 8

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[23:48:28]

wagnerrp:

the last version listed is from november of 2007

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wagnerrp:

which would mean it supports 0.21 at the latest

[23:48:35]

iamlindoro:

but since it looks like they haven't release anything in three years or so, you are likely out of luck on that device

[23:48:53]

wagnerrp:

if you use it with 0.21, you will probably brake things

[23:49:06]

wagnerrp:

if you use it with anything after 0.21, you will certainly break things

[23:54:06]

dekenx:

damn

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wagnerrp:

mythtv is a moving target

[23:54:32]

iamlindoro:

"darn" (see channel rules)

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[23:54:45]

wagnerrp:

each new release is going to come with new features, which require changes in the API

[23:55:00]

sphery:

dekenx: does mvp do UPnP? If so, that's likely the best/safest approach to try to use it

[23:55:00]

wagnerrp:

thats why the API check is in place

[23:55:02]

dekenx:

guess ill probably have to hook up a windows box --- or run video cables

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sphery:

windows box?

[23:55:27]

wagnerrp:

dekenx: a nice frontend can be purchased for ~$200

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sphery:

won't work well with MythTV, either

[23:55:42]

sphery:

agreed... nice frontend is the way to go

[23:55:47]

dekenx:

not mythtv – gbpvr

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sphery:

and not expensive

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wagnerrp:

gbpvr doesnt work with mythtv

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dekenx:

gbpvr standalone supports my device fully

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iamlindoro:

Fine with us

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** kormoc waves to dekenx and wishes him well **

[23:56:34]

iamlindoro:

running gbpvr is its own punishment

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sphery:

heh, true

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sphery:

at least they're allowed to buy Schedules Direct memberships, now

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sphery:

http://www.schedulesdirect.org/approvedsoftware

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sphery:

so you can get good guide data for it from the same source that you'd use for MythTV

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