Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, March 24th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:23]

gbee:

he did have me create some artwork for it, but whether he used it or not ...

[00:00:48]

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[00:03:42]

wagnerrp:

sphery: is there any way to handle NULL and non-NULL values in the same prepared query?

[00:03:53]

wagnerrp:

trying to manipulate the settings table

[00:04:11]

wagnerrp:

and i have to have two separate strings for handling the hostname

[00:04:13]

sphery:

you mean, "can you bind a NULL in a prepared query"?

[00:04:26]

wagnerrp:

'hostname=%s' or 'hostname IS NULL'

[00:04:35]

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[00:04:40]

sphery:

ahhh

[00:04:42]

sphery:

the where

[00:04:46]

wagnerrp:

but if i try to use NULL in the former, it doesnt work

[00:04:58]

** sphery wonders if kormoc has some sneaky approach **

[00:05:03]

wagnerrp:

just wondering if theres a way of doing that without special handling

[00:05:26]

sphery:

right, <anything> = NULL is always false in SQL

[00:06:29]

Beirdo:

knowing kormoc... he has a sneaky approach to whatever is going to be asked ;)

[00:06:37]

sphery:

yeah

[00:06:49]

Coded1:

sphery, so what is mythnetvision?

[00:06:53]

sphery:

I can't think of any approach for it

[00:07:05]

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[00:07:06]

wagnerrp:

an official plugin in mythtv 0.23 for handling internet video, flash and the like

[00:07:06]

sphery:

Coded1: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythNetvision

[00:07:15]

sphery:

but it's the receive streams from the 'net, not a stream to the 'net

[00:07:30]

Coded1:

sphery, still sounds cool

[00:07:32]

Coded1:

:)

[00:07:41]

wagnerrp:

the basic flash streaming in mythweb is the closest myth has to 'stream to the net'

[00:07:52]

wagnerrp:

and thats rather limited

[00:08:28]

wagnerrp:

and requires a fairly large amount of power

[00:08:36]

wagnerrp:

(at least more than my 1.8 Opty can dish out)

[00:09:17]

sphery:

and uploads extremely low-bitrate, bad-quality Trash, er Flash, that's (IMHO) isn't worth watching

[00:09:51]

sphery:

but, hey, mobile phone usage of streaming TV sites is on the rise

[00:09:55]

sphery:

so it /must/ be the future

[00:10:28]

Captain_Murdoch:

gbee, slickrick, fanart loading in Watch Recordings was slow in 0.22 and most of trunk until a few weeks ago because it hit the backend every time you scrolled if there was no known image for the current recording. current trunk caches the file lists retrieved from the backends so it doesn't have to hit them again.

[00:10:31]

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[00:10:46]

Captain_Murdoch:

s/loading/searching/

[00:10:55]

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[00:10:59]

sphery:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1597 . . . igures-shoot

[00:11:45]

momelod_:

storage groups working beautifully

[00:11:49]

momelod_:

thanks peoples

[00:12:03]

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[00:12:04]

k-man:

justinh: are you awake?\

[00:12:54]

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[00:13:22]

k-man:

i think there is at least 2 bugs in the screen sizing wizard thingo in myth – at least in the .debs from debian-multimedia – should i make tickets for the bugs?

[00:14:20]

wagnerrp:

what two bugs? the only one im aware of is it doesnt work right if your UI is already scaled

[00:14:29]

wagnerrp:

you have to reset it before that dialog behaves properly

[00:15:34]

k-man:

wagnerrp: well, i had major problems getting it to scale properly. as you say, if you went in a second time it screws up, but even when i reset the gui offset and gui size params in the db to 0 and try again, it ends up making the mythtv window about 3/4 of the size it should be

[00:15:52]

k-man:

wagnerrp: and also, the reset menu option is missing for me

[00:16:05]

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[00:16:13]

wagnerrp:

the reset should be there, but due to sizing problems, it may be rendered off screen

[00:16:24]

sphery:

the missing reset option has been mentioned by some other users, though as I understood, the devs who tried to reproduce were unable to

[00:16:31]

k-man:

and also, if i go into the wizard, don't change anything and choose "quit without saving" from the menu, it seems to reset, which is useful given that rest is missing, but not what its supposed to do

[00:16:31]

sphery:

(i.e. meaning you should maybe try 0.23-rc1)\

[00:16:44]

gbee:

Captain_Murdoch: is fanart loading in Watch Recordings on a timer as it is in mythvideo? I could check, but since you are here I'll be lazy and ask :)

[00:16:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, the load is on a timer, but the search isn't.

[00:17:08]

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[00:17:12]

k-man:

sphery: i showed it to justinh they other night and he was fairly perplexed by it

[00:17:14]

sphery:

k-man: and setting the GUI size and offsets to 0 should not be done via the DB--you should use Utilities/Setup|Setup|Appearance

[00:17:17]

slickrick:

Captain_Murdoch: thanks for the clarification. so will 0.22 be updated? or will i need to go to the next version?

[00:17:20]

** Beirdo just ate like $12 of smoked salmon **

[00:17:31]

Captain_Murdoch:

that's why I put in the hack cache a week or two ago, because Daniel and I both thought it would be a bit invasive to try to convert it to use teh PBB helper for the search this late in the game.

[00:17:36]

k-man:

sphery: ok, didn't know that at the time, that was the only way I could find to do it

[00:17:41]

sphery:

Beirdo: /nick Beardo

[00:17:50]

Beirdo:

hehe

[00:17:50]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: so you want to be able to do 'WHERE hostname = %s' with %s being null?

[00:17:55]

gbee:

k-man: currently it's likely that we'll just completely drop the wizard for 0.23, and rewrite it from scratch in 0.24/0.25

[00:18:00]

Captain_Murdoch:

slickrick, if you compile from source, you could try patching it yourself. the commit I made to trunk shoudl apply cleanly to 0.22 I think.

[00:18:02]

Beirdo:

I don't think bears usually have it smoked :)

[00:18:15]

gbee:

Captain_Murdoch: understood

[00:18:20]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: basically, i just want to know if theres a way i could do it without having to handle 'NULL' separately

[00:18:22]

sphery:

Beirdo: Only if they're smarter than the average bear... :)

[00:18:23]

k-man:

gbee: interesting – thanks for the info

[00:18:30]

Beirdo:

heh

[00:18:32]

Beirdo:

true

[00:18:38]

slickrick:

Captain_Murdoch: cool, i may give it a whirl. now that i have the metadata goodness i can't go back ...

[00:18:43]

sphery:

hey, hey, Beirdo bear!

[00:18:51]

Captain_Murdoch:

slickrick, I'll find you a commit #

[00:19:00]

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[00:19:00]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: dont think about it too had

[00:19:04]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt really matter

[00:19:08]

wagnerrp:

just an annoyance

[00:19:13]

wagnerrp:

s/had/hard/

[00:19:17]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: not easily, could do a pair of if statements but that bombs indexes

[00:19:24]

Beirdo:

hmm, now I'm full

[00:19:44]

Captain_Murdoch:

slickrick, http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/23739

[00:19:50]

slickrick:

Captain_Murdoch: much appreciated.

[00:19:55]

wagnerrp:

ok, thanks

[00:20:09]

k-man:

fwiw, setting the screen size manually in the Utilities/Setup|Setup|Appearance page is very cumbersome – and in fact imho too difficult to use practically. In the end i did it by adjusting values in DB directly, then restarting the frontend

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[00:20:31]

kormoc:

k-man: which is why we have the wizard

[00:20:47]

Beirdo:

funny, I found it easy

[00:20:53]

** Beirdo shrugs **

[00:21:19]

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[00:21:20]

k-man:

kormoc: ok – catch 22 ;)

[00:21:37]

Beirdo:

catch 23, it's more fun

[00:21:37]

kormoc:

k-man: why can't you use the wizard?

[00:21:53]

k-man:

kormoc: see discussion above – but for me its broken in a number of ways

[00:22:04]

gbee:

k-man: I think everyone agrees with that, aside from Beirdo, but there are issues with the wizard and some devs would rather start again than apply hacks on top of the existing version

[00:22:14]

sphery:

wagnerrp: in the C++ code, we just build the SQL string inserting the appropriate WHERE fragment based on which we need

[00:22:15]

k-man:

kormoc: i was wondering if i should file bugs but was informed its being dropped pending rewrite

[00:22:27]

kormoc:

ahh

[00:22:31]

Beirdo:

I didn't use the wizard, I used the appearance page :)

[00:23:02]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, thats what im doing currently

[00:23:05]

sphery:

k-man: also, if you were running with any kind of -geometry or -O override for any screen size or offset settings, you would have gotten strange (broken?) behavior

[00:23:33]

k-man:

justinh said that the wizard cannot make the myth window larger for some technical reason, is that likely to ever change?

[00:23:44]

sphery:

potentially even including the missing reset button (if it's only conditionally shown when those values aren't 0)

[00:23:49]

gbee:

Beirdo: appearance page is fine if you can accurately estimate the offsets necessary for your TV and then do the simple mental arithmetic to derive the width/height

[00:24:11]

sphery:

ah, /much/ prettier logs

[00:24:14]

dashcloud:

I recently got a 9400gt card, which has a 9 pin s-video port (s-video form factor, but 9 pins); it seems that cables for that are much rarer than the number of cards with it would indicate- any good source for them?

[00:24:22]

k-man:

sphery: no, just running stock, no overrides or geometrys added. i should note though that for some reason, my radeon s-video seems to overscan quite a bit on my TV and i have not been able to find a way to adjust that yet

[00:24:32]

Beirdo:

gbee: yup. I was letterboxing as well.

[00:24:32]

gbee:

usable yes, but not user friendly

[00:24:44]

Beirdo:

true

[00:24:45]

wagnerrp:

dashcloud: youre supposed to get the necessary cabling with the card

[00:25:13]

wagnerrp:

its a breakout cable that probably supports component video

[00:25:29]

wagnerrp:

and depending on the design, you may be able to plug a svideo cable in directly

[00:26:44]

dashcloud:

I can't plug in a normal s-video cable- there's no spot for the plastic key

[00:27:05]

** sphery heard Udo was in charge of creating graphs for the IPCC **

[00:27:14]

wagnerrp:

i guess its the 7-pin variant that you can plug a svideo cable into

[00:27:23]

Coded1:

sphery, i was checking out netvision but I cant find the actual plugin file? how do you actually install it?

[00:27:37]

sphery:

dashcloud: could break off the key :)

[00:27:45]

sphery:

Coded1: 0.23-rc1 and above, only

[00:27:56]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no saying that the pinout is actually correct otherwise

[00:27:57]

Coded1:

ahhh

[00:28:17]

sphery:

wagnerrp: but maybe it will make cool psychadelic images with the wrong input

[00:28:23]

Coded1:

sphery, is there a package for ubuntu or just from source?

[00:28:31]

wagnerrp:

its in mythplugins

[00:28:38]

wagnerrp:

however ubuntu decides to package that is up to them

[00:28:44]

sphery:

Coded1: I don't know if they've got it, yet

[00:28:51]

sphery:

0.23-rc1 was tagged last night

[00:28:57]

sphery:

and we haven't even announced it

[00:29:03]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but theyve been running trunk builds for a month or two now

[00:29:51]

sphery:

right... could do trunk, but make sure you hop off that train and onto 0.23-fixes as soon as it's available

[00:29:56]

sphery:

(from your packager)

[00:30:06]

Coded1:

will do

[00:30:29]

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[00:30:32]

sphery:

if you don't, you won't be able to go backwards to 0.23-fixes

[00:30:43]

sphery:

which means you'll be running unstable mythtv until 0.24 is released

[00:30:51]

sphery:

so definitely watch closely

[00:31:16]

sphery:

Or, just wait a couple days to get the 0.23-fixes build (0.23-rc1 or higher) from Mythbuntu

[00:31:24]

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[00:31:33]

wagnerrp:

assuming after 2 months of freeze, everyone just craps all over trunk with new protocol and schema

[00:32:31]

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[00:32:41]

dashcloud:

I'm thinking this will work: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814999015 any thoughts? (any reason it wouldn't work?)

[00:32:51]

gbee:

wagnerrp: not quite the way I'd have put it, but yes ;)

[00:33:31]

wagnerrp:

dashcloud: that looks like 8-pin to me

[00:34:06]

wagnerrp:

gbee: its like when you eat too much bran, and then someone gives you a glass of prune juice

[00:34:14]

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[00:34:15]

dashcloud:

here's the only other one carried: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814999016 is that 9 pin?

[00:34:45]

wagnerrp:

cant tell from the angle they have

[00:34:47]

wagnerrp:

what card do you have?

[00:35:44]

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[00:36:37]

dashcloud:

sparkle 9400gt, low profile, fanless, pci-e model

[00:38:27]

wagnerrp:

3-4–2... funky

[00:38:32]

wagnerrp:

never seen that layout before

[00:41:52]

wagnerrp:

was V always on at 10PM?

[00:43:22]

wagnerrp:

aww... and its a recap episode

[00:47:28]

Beirdo:

hey, no hogging the prune juice

[00:52:47]

sphery:

Why did you re-record it? (As I presume "recap" means the 2nd time he's "cap"tured it.)

[00:53:56]

wagnerrp:

no, its a recap of the first four episodes

[00:54:14]

wagnerrp:

a whole show of 'last time on...'

[00:54:46]

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[00:55:07]

sphery:

ah, a "clip" show?

[00:55:16]

wagnerrp:

yeah, one of them

[00:55:22]

sphery:

:(

[00:55:30]

sphery:

I even hate those for LOST

[00:55:44]

sphery:

(but for some reason, I always watch them for any show I watch)

[00:56:46]

sphery:

heh "We'll let you know when we get it fixed." oops... Didn't mean to steal credit from whoever actually can/does fix it (with the "when /we/ get it fixed" part)

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[00:57:18]

flithm1:

hey everyone, how do I clear bookmarks? seems whenever someone creates a bookmark it makes mythtv unusable for video associated with the bookmark

[00:57:38]

sphery:

yeah, don't use bookmarks for MythVideo videos

[00:57:50]

gbee:

didn't that get fixed?

[00:57:54]

iamlindoro:

bookmarks are fine for MythVideo

[00:57:56]

sphery:

in trunk/0.23-rc1

[00:58:04]

sphery:

is it fixed in 0.22-fixes?

[00:58:08]

iamlindoro:

and in 22-fixes

[00:58:10]

iamlindoro:

yes

[00:58:10]

sphery:

if so, flithm1, just upgrade

[00:58:11]

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[00:58:26]

flithm1:

excellent, thanks!

[00:58:29]

sphery:

flithm1: you're probably running the pre 0.22-fixes version of MythTV that was shipped in MythBuntu

[00:58:35]

iamlindoro:

And what's more, the bookmarks themselves work in all content as long as you didn't create a seektable when the content doesn't support them

[00:58:37]

sphery:

you need to upgrade to the current 0.22-fixes

[00:58:40]

flithm1:

stupid ubuntu

[00:58:55]

sphery:

so just enable the right repo and you're up to date

[00:59:33]

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[01:03:36]

ThisOtherGuy:

hi all

[01:06:36]

ThisOtherGuy:

Does anyone know if Isaac is still part of Myth (just idle curiosity)

[01:07:28]

wagnerrp:

yes

[01:09:35]

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[01:11:29]

k-man:

from what I understand from the mailing lists, it seems to be a bit of a challenge to sync mythtv with ffmpeg, why is that?

[01:11:30]

gbee:

he was surgically separated from the codebase a couple of years back, but he's still around as the project lead

[01:12:02]

gbee:

k-man: we have a number of local fixes that haven't been submitted, or accepted upstream yet

[01:12:05]

** sphery is glad that gbee is a Trac master **

[01:12:37]

gbee:

sphery: just a good guess once you pointed me in the right direction

[01:13:02]

k-man:

gbee: does ffmpeg not like the fixes?

[01:13:16]

sphery:

well, I found stuff, but none of it meant anything to me, so I'm just glad you knew what to do about it.

[01:14:45]

gbee:

k-man: not my area, you'd have to ask janneg

[01:15:46]

sphery:

I think a lot of them predated anyone with a rapport with ffmpeg devs--so no one took the time to submit them upstream originally

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[01:16:32]

gbee:

k-man: there is also the issue of regressions in ffmpeg, which unfortunately are pretty common, the whole reason we ship ffmpeg internally is to provide a much improved experience for users and give devs a fighting chance of finding bugs

[01:16:44]

sphery:

Now there are so many changes and without good info on why we need them, that it's hard to submit them upstream... But I think they're in the process of trying to do so.

[01:16:56]

k-man:

gbee: ah, i see

[01:17:06]

dwmcqueen_:

Hello – I am getting an error with my ATI TV WOnder 600 USB

[01:17:07]

sphery:

Plus, ffmpeg API changes that require updating MythTV code with basically every sync :)

[01:17:24]

dwmcqueen_:

"Could not find tuning parameters for mplex 32767"

[01:17:37]

sphery:

dwmcqueen_: time for a channel rescan?

[01:17:46]

dwmcqueen_:

Well, I just did that.

[01:17:52]

dwmcqueen_:

This has never worked, even after a scan

[01:18:03]

sphery:

the card has never worked or that channel?

[01:18:28]

dwmcqueen_:

Card has never worked in myth. I can do a scan and output channels.conf and watch via VLC just fine

[01:18:45]

dwmcqueen_:

Myth picks up the channels in the scan

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[01:19:06]

sphery:

Unforunately, I don't know anything about that card, so I won't be any help.

[01:19:18]

dwmcqueen_:

It's no problem – thanks, though.

[01:19:29]

dwmcqueen_:

I ddn't know if there is a simple workaround for that type of error

[01:19:40]

dwmcqueen_:

2010-03–21 16:05:27.599 DTVMux, Error: Could not find tuning parameters for mplex 32767

[01:19:41]

dwmcqueen_:

2010-03–21 16:05:27.647 DVBChan(1:/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0) Error: SetChannelByString(48): Failed to initialize multiplex options

[01:19:41]

dwmcqueen_:

2010-03–21 16:05:27.691 TVRec(1) Error: Failed to set channel to 48. Reverting to kState_None

[01:19:58]

gbee:

the day we start linking an external ffmpeg is the day that stability in myth takes a nosedive and developing becomes 10x harder, it's a huge library with a lot of unknowns, and distros will rarely update it between releases – trying to deal with users on one end of the spectrum using a 2 year old version and those on another using bleeding edge code ... well recipe for disaster

[01:21:26]

ThisOtherGuy:

thanks gbee

[01:21:31]

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[01:21:47]

gbee:

k-man: for the record, no serious media player links external ffmpeg libs and for the very same reason ffmpeg devs spent a large period of time in recent years where they never even bothered with a release

[01:22:53]

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[01:23:24]

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[01:24:00]

k-man:

gbee: interesting – its very interesting to hear how these things work in a practical sense, ie, the interfacing of large independent software projects

[01:24:02]

gbee:

ThisOtherGuy: Isaac has a young family and a busy job, rare that he has time to do much code work but he still has the last word in any arguments about the direction of development ;)

[01:25:23]

dwmcqueen_:

Is there anything anyone would sugggest about a "Failed ot initialize multiplex options", or should I just go get a different uner?

[01:25:25]

dwmcqueen_:

tuner

[01:25:37]

sphery:

dwmcqueen_: was that with a mythtv-setup channel scan or did you import a channels.conf scan?

[01:25:44]

sphery:

if the latter, I suspect that's your problem

[01:26:08]

dwmcqueen_:

Can I do that?

[01:26:16]

dwmcqueen_:

No – it was a mythtv0setup scan

[01:26:28]

dwmcqueen_:

But wonder if a channels.conf scan import would work

[01:26:36]

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[01:26:55]

ThisOtherGuy:

gbee: makes sense

[01:28:23]

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[01:28:47]

Bigshot:

does anyone have a HTPC in here self made?

[01:29:15]

wagnerrp:

meaning, what?

[01:29:30]

iamlindoro:

meaning you get a cup of sand and an oven, and end up with an HTPC, duh

[01:29:51]

Bigshot:

home theatre pc d'oh

[01:29:54]

gbee:

or a sheet of glass

[01:30:04]

iamlindoro:

Bigshot, we're aware what HTPC means

[01:30:05]

wagnerrp:

you mean, have any of us built our own case?

[01:30:15]

Bigshot:

yesh

[01:30:19]

iamlindoro:

but since nearly ever person in here assembled their own system...

[01:30:42]

Bigshot:

everyone has mini-itx?

[01:30:46]

wagnerrp:

no

[01:30:57]

Beirdo:

?!

[01:31:10]

wagnerrp:

generally only the 'underpowered' types in here use mini-itx

[01:31:20]

wagnerrp:

theyre a bit of a rarity on proper sockets

[01:31:32]

kormoc:

I use a mac mini!

[01:31:38]

Bigshot:

no no use Zotac H55 all proc go in em

[01:31:50]

kormoc:

I doubt all procs go in em...

[01:31:54]

wagnerrp:

well thats some proprietary thing, thats not mini-itx either

[01:31:59]

Bigshot:

I's go in 'em

[01:32:03]

** Beirdo tries to stick a 386 in there **

[01:32:09]

Beirdo:

nope, don't fit

[01:32:13]

** wagnerrp hands Beirdo a hammer **

[01:32:17]

wagnerrp:

you can do it!

[01:32:19]

kormoc:

that's hardly all procs

[01:32:22]

kormoc:

LGA-775

[01:32:23]

wagnerrp:

we believe in you

[01:32:40]

Bigshot:

all the "i" cores go in it

[01:32:50]

Beirdo:

to quote Bart Simpson... "Smashy Smashy!"

[01:32:51]

wagnerrp:

not if its a 775

[01:32:57]

wagnerrp:

and besides that, no

[01:33:05]

wagnerrp:

there are THREE DIFFERENT SOCKETS used by the i-series

[01:33:16]

kormoc:

evidently it also supports LGA-1156, but only those two

[01:33:16]

** gbee wants his AMD procs **

[01:33:21]

iamlindoro:

Dang, the Daft Punk soundtrack for the new Tron movie sounds *good*

[01:33:31]

Bigshot:

right kormoc

[01:33:32]

Beirdo:

oh no

[01:33:32]

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[01:33:45]

sphery:

gbee: are you getting a 45W TDP quad core?

[01:33:45]

Beirdo:

Daft Punk? I will have to go see that

[01:33:55]

wagnerrp:

Bigshot: so youre saying it supports the i5 line, and the fake i7s

[01:33:56]

Beirdo:

I like their music (which is odd for me, really)

[01:33:56]

Bigshot:

what to buy then if not mini-itx a mico-atx?

[01:34:03]

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[01:34:40]

Bigshot:

wagnerrp, look out go google Im not that sure

[01:34:41]

kormoc:

Bigshot: doesn't support PGA-989 which is the i3-[0–9]+[U]?M,

[01:34:59]

kormoc:

nor the QM's or LMs

[01:34:59]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, yeah, because this guy seems like the regexp type

[01:35:01]

wagnerrp:

you were before when you said it supported everything

[01:35:18]

** Beirdo starts laughing **

[01:35:25]

Bigshot:

wagnerrp, I meant the latest stuff "i" stuff

[01:35:41]

kormoc:

Bigshot: doesn't support the latest, it doesn't support the bloomfield or gulftown procs

[01:35:43]

iamlindoro:

Except not the latest

[01:35:55]

kormoc:

i7–9*

[01:35:59]

iamlindoro:

but tell us some more about what we should buy

[01:36:10]

iamlindoro:

You've established yourself as a real authority so far

[01:36:38]

Bigshot:

ok so what should I buy if not mini-itx to get real "cinematic oasis" kinda experience

[01:36:41]

kormoc:

it supports 6 out of 21 i cores

[01:36:47]

kormoc:

that's hardly all of them :)

[01:36:57]

sphery:

wonder if it would work with the "discount" i7's

[01:37:00]

gbee:

micro-atx gives you a _lot_ more choice, and the cases are much less cramped, it all depends what role you want the machine to serve – if it's a backend and frontend then you'd definitely want m-atx, if it's just a frontend then you might chose to avoid the hassle of self-build and go with a $200 Atom system like the Acer Revo

[01:37:15]

kormoc:

sphery: ooh, worth a try

[01:37:18]

iamlindoro:

http://www.amazon.com/Oasis/e/B000APR9UE

[01:37:24]

iamlindoro:

Buy everything there if you want a cinematic Oasis

[01:38:03]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: but that's a real one, not a real quoted one

[01:38:10]

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[01:38:31]

gbee:

ok, you've had your fun, time to do as the topic says and 'Play Nice' ;)

[01:38:51]

Beirdo:

awww. I guess you have a point

[01:39:00]

iamlindoro:

whoever insisted on that should be trouted roundly

[01:39:01]

** kormoc shifty eyes **

[01:39:09]

Beirdo:

!trout kormoc

[01:39:09]

** MythLogBot slaps kormoc with a trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[01:39:12]

Beirdo:

heh

[01:39:21]

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[01:39:35]

kormoc:

Bigshot: Personally, I recommend late 2009 or newer mac minis

[01:39:36]

Beirdo:

better watch out, he might use a real fish on me

[01:40:01]

kormoc:

!salmon Beirdo

[01:40:04]

gbee:

heh, kormoc took the trout for iamlindoro

[01:40:21]

kormoc:

That's me! Human target!

[01:40:24]

iamlindoro:

nice

[01:40:28]

Beirdo:

yeah well, he was being... suspicious :)

[01:40:34]

gbee:

kormoc: the new macs include hdmi?

[01:41:02]

kormoc:

gbee: $9 cable

[01:41:10]

Bigshot:

gbee, what to go for man I'm sorta confused

[01:41:15]

kormoc:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp . . . amp;format=2

[01:42:37]

gbee:

kormoc: no audio though :/

[01:42:40]

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[01:42:58]

kormoc:

it's true, but the digital optical out typically works

[01:43:10]

Beirdo:

kormoc: I should add salmon to the trout plugin :)

[01:43:11]

kormoc:

(meaning tv's can do optical in + hdmi)

[01:43:17]

k-man:

a friend of mine uses mac mini with an OSX compile of the frontend – works great for him, and also means you can use itunes for music if you so desire

[01:43:25]

Bigshot:

kormoc, gbee is looking for real HD audio 7.1 channel

[01:43:25]

gbee:

kormoc: assuming they support it

[01:43:31]

Beirdo:

ew. itunes?!

[01:43:47]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo, !verb $verbtouse $object ?

[01:43:52]

k-man:

Beirdo: some people like it

[01:43:52]

gbee:

Bigshot: how familiar with MythTV are you? are you aware of the difference between a backend and a frontend?

[01:44:18]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: well, to a certain extent... :) I think I might make it the fish plugin with different actions :)

[01:44:28]

Bigshot:

frontend means all the GUI gbee?

[01:44:46]

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[01:44:47]

Beirdo:

!cod iamlindoro

[01:44:48]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:44:57]

iamlindoro:

!eviscerate!

[01:45:00]

iamlindoro:

!GDIAF!

[01:45:06]

kormoc:

I was just writing that one :P

[01:45:08]

iamlindoro:

!KOIP!

[01:45:18]

Beirdo:

the bot's saying "What are these tards saying to me?"

[01:45:30]

iamlindoro:

"MythLogBot sets kormoc alight and watches contentedly as he burns."

[01:45:53]

Bigshot:

gbee, you there man?

[01:46:16]

Beirdo:

I should put in a !grumpy target

[01:46:16]

Bigshot:

should I go for microatx?

[01:46:32]

Beirdo:

so the bot will be a total grump to someone.

[01:46:38]

k-man:

Bigshot: do you have an hdmi capable tv?

[01:46:41]

Bigshot:

yes

[01:46:42]

** sphery prefers big, loud, and ugly--in the other room (with cables going through/around walls) **

[01:46:43]

kormoc:

Bigshot: I think you should go for a rock solid at case

[01:46:44]

gbee:

Bigshot: there is more to it than that, I suggest you do some reading on the MythTV wiki, maybe the guys here can point you in the right direction – what I'm driving at is that if you want to record TV, which is what MythTV is all about then you need to consider how those tuner cards etc are going to fit in the case and leave you room to expand should you need it

[01:46:49]

Beirdo:

too bad we banned the main target

[01:46:50]

k-man:

Bigshot: imho, go mac mini

[01:47:14]

iamlindoro:

We?? Hey, I had to walk that path alone! ;)

[01:47:14]

kormoc:

mac mini + hdpvr is awesome

[01:47:46]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: I had banned him previously as well!

[01:47:51]

Bigshot:

k-man, I want something that's "self-made"

[01:48:04]

k-man:

Bigshot: you want to build it yourself?

[01:48:09]

Bigshot:

yeah

[01:48:09]

k-man:

Bigshot: why?

[01:48:13]

Bigshot:

just for fun

[01:48:14]

iamlindoro:

Heh... I expect a tax deduction or something for making it permanent ;)

[01:48:21]

kormoc:

hehe

[01:48:22]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: if you weren't so fast on the draw I woulda done it

[01:48:23]

k-man:

Bigshot: oh...

[01:48:23]

gbee:

the recording hardware and drives can go in one machine, the backend, the machine responsible for playback can then be something much smaller which sits under the TV, that would be the frontend

[01:48:51]

JEDIDIAH__:

my recorders are more frontend-ish with all of the storage sitting across the network in a central locaion.

[01:49:05]

gbee:

but I'm getting ahead of myself here if you haven't read and understood the distributed architecture of MythTV

[01:49:07]

JEDIDIAH__:

My HD-PVRs are kind of like HDHomeRuns in this respect.

[01:49:31]

JEDIDIAH__:

the whole "client server" thing in MythTV is one of it's best parts.

[01:49:50]

Bigshot:

how's xbmc gbee

[01:49:58]

** iamlindoro whistles softly **

[01:50:05]

wagnerrp:

Bigshot: it doesnt do recording, if thats what you want

[01:50:12]

kormoc:

Bigshot: doing very well over in #xbmc

[01:50:14]

gbee:

the other option is to combine the frontend (playback) and backend (recording/storage) capabilities in a single machine, but then you need something that is both powerful enough for playback and large enough to accomodate the tuner cards/drives

[01:50:15]

** JEDIDIAH__ has a mini running with an hdpvr. **

[01:50:36]

gbee:

anyway, I'm off to bed, I'll let someone else sort you out

[01:50:48]

wagnerrp:

Bigshot: basically... you need to make a couple choices about what you want this box to do before you proceed with anything

[01:50:48]

Bigshot:

k

[01:51:12]

wagnerrp:

what do you want to record? how much do you want to record? what other kind of content do you want to be able to play?

[01:51:19]

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[01:51:41]

JEDIDIAH__:

where do you want to watch?

[01:51:50]

Bigshot:

it should play all the stuff HD content, blu ray etc 50mb/sec stuff

[01:51:53]

gbee:

do you even want to record? If not, MythTV is the wrong project

[01:52:09]

k-man:

Bigshot: something to consider imho, is the noise level of the machine – you don't want a hulking great machine whirring away 24/7 in your living room, it drives you nuts

[01:52:09]

Bigshot:

yeah sure I would want to record

[01:52:16]

Bigshot:

1hour/day

[01:52:16]

wagnerrp:

what do you want to record?

[01:52:21]

JEDIDIAH__:

The XBMC stuff is better at the whole "jukebox" thing (for the most part)

[01:52:24]

** kormoc blinks **

[01:52:26]

kormoc:

a hour a day?

[01:52:30]

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[01:52:38]

kormoc:

that seems... silly

[01:52:40]

k-man:

Bigshot: so its best to make a machine as the backend that you put in the office or garage or basement or something, and then use a small quiet machine for a frontend in the living room

[01:52:42]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: hes got his soaps

[01:52:49]

k-man:

the front end can be switched off when not in use

[01:53:05]

wagnerrp:

s/soaps/soap/

[01:53:09]

iamlindoro:

mama's watchin' her stories

[01:53:10]

kormoc:

hehe

[01:53:17]

** JEDIDIAH__ records loads of stuff constantly including "Tivo suggestions" most of which doesn't get watched. It's... video on demand but with better selection **

[01:53:38]

Beirdo:

!trout JEDIDIAH__ Tivo reference

[01:53:38]

** MythLogBot slaps JEDIDIAH__ with a Tivo reference trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[01:53:51]

Beirdo:

tivo--

[01:53:56]

JEDIDIAH__:

worried about a patent suit or something?

[01:53:59]

k-man:

Bigshot: imho, if you want to build a machine, build yourself a nice backend – then go and buy a premade machine as a front end. and if you can afford it, get a mac mini as a frontend

[01:54:14]

JEDIDIAH__:

you don't need a mini as a frontend, you can just get a revo

[01:54:20]

Beirdo:

silly wankers can't make a decent product so they sue for stupid things

[01:54:27]

wagnerrp:

a minimac is going to be about the smallest machine you can find that will decode most content in software

[01:54:37]

Bigshot:

k-man, what about backend chewing all the electro-city

[01:54:38]

k-man:

JEDIDIAH__: unless you want to run itunes for music, in which case a mac mini is a good choice

[01:54:50]

wagnerrp:

and since its running laptop parts, its only going to pull a dozen or so watts

[01:54:56]

k-man:

Bigshot: thats the price you pay for mythtv

[01:55:17]

wagnerrp:

Bigshot: estimate your power bill is going to be roughly ~$1/yr/watt

[01:55:19]

dwmcqueen_:

Maybe a question that can be answered – this is a USB HD tuner (ATI TV Wonder 600) – should the device be setup as an Analog V4L device, a DVB TUner, or something different?

[01:55:28]

wagnerrp:

assuming sustained load

[01:55:52]

k-man:

i believe some people get their backends to power down when nothing is being recorded – i've never tried that so i can't comment on how well it works

[01:55:52]

wagnerrp:

your average machine these days is going to run maybe 40W plus peripherals

[01:55:56]

kormoc:

dwmcqueen_: are there drivers for that?

[01:56:05]

wagnerrp:

a bigger video card will suck more power, but will go completely unused by mythtv

[01:56:19]

wagnerrp:

tuner cards are going to pull a couple watts each

[01:56:31]

k-man:

Bigshot: which country are you in?

[01:56:33]

wagnerrp:

and hard drives are going to pull 5–10watts each, but can be spun down

[01:56:41]

JEDIDIAH__:

a mini will choke on hdpvr content.

[01:56:41]

Beirdo:

kormoc: there's probably an app for that

[01:56:43]

Bigshot:

k-man, east coast

[01:56:52]

JEDIDIAH__:

most of the rest doesn't need much in the way of cpu.

[01:57:01]

k-man:

Bigshot: east coast is a country?

[01:57:05]

dwmcqueen_:

kormoc: Yes – and people say they get it to work – I just must be doing something wrong as I can't get the HD part to work in myth

[01:57:06]

kormoc:

there's a country called east coast? wow, who knew

[01:57:07]

wagnerrp:

JEDIDIAH__: depends on the version of the mini

[01:57:09]

JEDIDIAH__:

you could even get an appletv and put Linux on it.

[01:57:23]

Bigshot:

what's your point

[01:57:24]

JEDIDIAH__:

Been there and done that wag.

[01:57:37]

kormoc:

dwmcqueen_: it's a dvb card, so set it up that way

[01:57:39]

k-man:

JEDIDIAH__: i believe its non trivial to run linux on an apple tv

[01:57:49]

wagnerrp:

anything core2, 2.5GHz or better will run full bitrate HDPVR content under trunk

[01:57:57]

kormoc:

Bigshot: east coast of canada? mexico? china?

[01:57:59]

JEDIDIAH__:

I have an nv mini at my foot and 2 more i950 ones floating around the house.

[01:58:01]

dwmcqueen_:

Well – I was hoping that wasn't te answer – id that and get the tuning error

[01:58:22]

wagnerrp:

and you can always drop the bitrate if you have underpowered minis

[01:58:32]

Bigshot:

wanna keep that secure

[01:58:35]

wagnerrp:

while the ATV is just too underpowered to do anything worthwhile

[01:58:42]

Bigshot:

anyways, going now

[01:58:48]

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[01:58:55]

kormoc:

I'm gonna assume China given that answer

[01:58:55]

dwmcqueen_:

kormoc: But thanks ;)

[01:59:12]

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[01:59:13]

** kormoc tips his hat towards dwmcqueen_ **

[01:59:20]

JEDIDIAH__:

The atv can handle anything but HD h264.

[01:59:36]

kormoc:

JEDIDIAH__: the ui on a atv is pretty bad

[01:59:51]

JEDIDIAH__:

well of course you're not going to use apple's software.

[01:59:55]

wagnerrp:

or HD mpeg2, or moderate bitrate h264, or even mythtv since it has almost no memory

[02:00:04]

kormoc:

JEDIDIAH__: meaning myth's ui

[02:00:12]

Beirdo:

JEDIDIAH__: then you are probably breaking Apple's TOS for the thing

[02:00:29]

wagnerrp:

its got 256MB of memory

[02:00:30]

JEDIDIAH__:

HD mpeg2 does find on an ATV. So does HD divx.

[02:00:44]

JEDIDIAH__:

The nv7x00 even provides a little help.

[02:00:50]

wagnerrp:

meaning if youre using any graphically rich theme, youre going to swap to death

[02:00:57]

JEDIDIAH__:

as far as Apple goes... they don't have any standing.

[02:01:26]

** JEDIDIAH__ has not yet met a graphically rich theme that didn't make him want to throw sharp objects. **

[02:01:33]

sphery:

Not planning to get into any arguments about it, but Apple TV is probably about the worst possible choice for a Myth frontend

[02:01:39]

sphery:

and remember Apple TV != Mac Mini

[02:01:44]

kormoc:

sphery++

[02:01:50]

sphery:

(Mac Mini would do well--if you get a sufficiently powerful one)

[02:01:53]

JEDIDIAH__:

oh, there are plenty of guys on the mailing list with much worse stuff than the mini.

[02:01:55]

wagnerrp:

youre pushing the memory limits at full resolution even with non-rich themes

[02:02:00]

k-man:

i agree with sphery

[02:02:01]

JEDIDIAH__:

oh, there are plenty of guys on the mailing list with much worse stuff than the (i mean atv)

[02:02:05]

sphery:

OK, granted, EPIA is worse

[02:02:05]

wagnerrp:

JEDIDIAH__: and we would say the same thing about them

[02:02:13]

JEDIDIAH__:

...but it's all moot since you can just get a revo.

[02:02:14]

sphery:

and using a PVR-350's TV out is worse

[02:02:17]

kormoc:

I get upset at my mini's ui response time, I can't imagine the atv

[02:02:21]

sphery:

but...

[02:02:27]

wagnerrp:

although generally you cant buy their horribly underpowered hardware anymore

[02:02:51]

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[02:03:46]

JEDIDIAH__:

a revo even can manage being a fe/be box.

[02:03:54]

Beirdo:

yawn

[02:04:09]

wagnerrp:

sure, but youre not going to be doing much commflagging on it

[02:04:31]

wagnerrp:

it will go maybe half-realtime for even ATSC stuff

[02:04:31]

Beirdo:

gimme a quad-core AMD, thanks :)

[02:04:36]

JEDIDIAH__:

it's bad new to be running jobs on a fe box anyways.

[02:04:38]

wagnerrp:

maybe 1/6th for HDPVR content

[02:04:46]

sphery:

Yeah, dual-core AMD for me

[02:05:03]

Beirdo:

I haven't really decided on the frontend :)

[02:05:09]

prg3:

PS#

[02:05:17]

JEDIDIAH__:

run a proper box as a master and leave the jobs to it.

[02:05:20]

Beirdo:

I hope the fitpc2 once I make it work will be adequate

[02:05:25]

Beirdo:

meh

[02:05:42]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: +1 on having a useful backend, too

[02:05:54]

Beirdo:

JEDIDIAH__: why are you yelling our name at us, BTW?

[02:05:54]

JEDIDIAH__:

even running jobs on a fe mac mini is a bad idea.

[02:06:21]

JEDIDIAH__:

I think in 22 years you are the first to complain about it.

[02:06:24]

wagnerrp:

a mac mini is more powerful than any of the machines i have plugged into myth

[02:06:46]

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[02:07:01]

kormoc:

complain about what?

[02:07:04]

JEDIDIAH__:

it doesn't matter. A fe should ideally dedicate itself to the user on the couch.

[02:07:09]

JEDIDIAH__:

"shouting"

[02:07:16]

wagnerrp:

well.. the high end one is anyway

[02:07:22]

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[02:09:49]

Wicked:

hmmm...my backend.log is being FLOODED with messages like this: http://pastebin.com/DKXVAJa9 ...and the thing is...no one is watching anything....i think its running mythcomflag

[02:10:09]

Wicked:

is there anyway to suppress those warning?...its going at like......10–15 messages a second in the long

[02:10:27]

wagnerrp:

turn off 'important' logging

[02:10:33]

** sphery shuts down the LiveTV session he started on Wicked's system **

[02:10:58]

Wicked:

hehe

[02:11:07]

Wicked:

hmm.

[02:11:46]

sphery:

that one's a libavcodec error, and I don't think we suppress it with any -v options

[02:12:03]

Wicked:

:o ok

[02:12:06]

sphery:

only way to suppress it is a grep -v or whatever

[02:12:13]

sphery:

(or just log to /dev/null)

[02:12:20]

Wicked:

and its not fixable by anything i can do on my system?

[02:12:25]

Beirdo:

oh nice comment on #2

[02:12:26]

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[02:12:38]

sphery:

well, you could recompile myth and comment it

[02:12:42]

Beirdo:

why is someone commenting on a long closed bug?

[02:12:56]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: probably gbee, fixing some issue with trac

[02:13:00]

wagnerrp:

and... testing it

[02:13:05]

sphery:

yeah

[02:13:07]

Wicked:

well..i mean...like what ever is causing it....like maybe it was a old lib or something i could update.

[02:13:12]

Beirdo:

ah, yeah, that would make sense :)

[02:13:13]

sphery:

trac was borked and he unborked it

[02:13:47]

iamlindoro:

"Life" on Discovery HD == awesome sauce, FWIW to anyone who loved Planet Earth

[02:14:09]

Beirdo:

bork bork bork :)

[02:14:42]

whimmel1:

I've been running .21 for a long time and finally upgraded to .22. Unfortunately the menu comes up blank (but with the Terra background) and I don't see any hints in the log.

[02:15:01]

** sphery misses Sarah Shahi **

[02:15:07]

sphery:

but maybe that was a different Life

[02:15:36]

sphery:

whimmel1: no menu text? ATI video card (or maybe Intel)?

[02:15:39]

iamlindoro:

See you in another Life, brother

[02:15:47]

whimmel1:

sphery: it's nvidia

[02:15:54]

sphery:

iamlindoro: heh, Desmond

[02:15:57]

whimmel1:

and mythtv-setup works fine

[02:15:59]

sphery:

whimmel1: proprietary drivers?

[02:16:01]

iamlindoro:

sphery, well done ;)

[02:16:06]

whimmel1:

yes

[02:16:42]

marcus__ is now known as mzb

[02:16:46]

sphery:

whimmel1: first, make sure you have the MS core web fonts installed (something like msttcorefonts or whatever)

[02:16:59]

sphery:

whimmel1: then if that doesn't work, try the exports at the top of http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/407386#407386

[02:17:21]

whimmel1:

ok

[02:17:23]

iamlindoro:

*blank*, or the menu minus text?

[02:17:33]

whimmel1:

just a pale green screen

[02:17:44]

sphery:

green?

[02:17:47]

sphery:

what theme?

[02:17:48]

iamlindoro:

Terra isn't green...

[02:17:52]

iamlindoro:

(nor is any other theme)

[02:17:57]

whimmel1:

greenish.

[02:18:02]

** iamlindoro hopes to fix that for .24... **

[02:18:11]

whimmel1:

khaki?

[02:18:26]

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[02:18:26]

sphery:

whimmel1: try: mythfrontend -O Theme=MythCenter

[02:18:32]

sphery:

though khaki could be Terra

[02:18:43]

iamlindoro:

If all he's got is a BG, he has probably got a video driver problem

[02:18:44]

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[02:18:44]

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[02:19:09]

iamlindoro:

ie, "I upgraded myth" may actually be "I upgraded my distro and myth"

[02:19:21]

whimmel1:

well true, but I run gentoo. it's a moving target

[02:19:38]

whimmel1:

and like I said, mythtv-setup's menus all work

[02:19:40]

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[02:20:04]

sphery:

iamlindoro: wouldn't fixing the lack of a green theme just require a find command plus ImageMagick convert (for images) and sed (for xml's) on MythCenter?

[02:20:04]

iamlindoro:

That's not necessarily relevant

[02:20:21]

iamlindoro:

sphery, Actually, Arclight's paid backgrounds are green

[02:20:29]

whimmel1:

with that -O now I have the mythcenter background and no menus

[02:20:40]

sphery:

ah, yeah... But backgrounds want to be free!

[02:20:52]

sphery:

whimmel1: ok, fonts, then those exports

[02:20:58]

** sphery guesses broken Mesa **

[02:21:13]

sphery:

(which results in broken video drivers, as iamlindoro said)

[02:21:27]

iamlindoro:

If only myth had some sort of logging mechanism

[02:21:28]

sphery:

no idea what the fonts are called for Gentoo

[02:21:31]

iamlindoro:

oh well, maybe by 1.0 ;)

[02:21:42]

sphery:

at least, now 0.23-rc1

[02:21:47]

sphery:

s logging is clean

[02:21:52]

whimmel1:

its' media-fonts/corefonts in gentoo. i've already got them but i'm reinstalling

[02:22:28]

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[02:24:48]

whimmel1:

same result with the exports. nothing interesting in the log

[02:29:02]

sphery:

whimmel1: so it's something in your X or video drivers or both

[02:29:25]

whimmel1:

ok, i'll dig further. thanks

[02:30:10]

sphery:

whimmel1: I'd recommend going through http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine? . . . me&mh=25

[02:30:36]

sphery:

which is http://tinyurl.com/y8uxp2p

[02:31:41]

sphery:

also, feel free to paste full frontend logs (at default verbosity) into http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/

[02:31:55]

sphery:

from a single session startup to shutdown/kill

[02:32:32]

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[02:48:07]

markl_:

ok this is going to seem like a dumb question

[02:48:21]

markl_:

but how do i turn off s/pdif sound in mythtv?

[02:48:33]

markl_:

i have a video with 24 bit sound and my piece of crap old receiver hates it

[02:48:44]

markl_:

in vlc it is analog but mythtv always wants to go digital

[02:49:07]

markl_:

i tried setting the audio device to /dev/dsp and all the other analog devices i could think of; and i turned off ac3 and dts passthrough

[02:49:14]

markl_:

i also removed my asound.conf

[02:49:19]

whimmel1:

http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1851065 seems awfully short...

[02:50:42]

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[02:54:31]

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[02:55:27]

sphery:

markl_: turning off passthrough should stop AC-3/DTS output

[02:55:58]

sphery:

markl_: and using analog output just requires specifying the proper audio output device in mythfrontend settings (under General)

[02:56:22]

sphery:

whimmel1: mythfrontend -O ThemePainter=qt

[02:56:27]

markl_:

that's what i thought too but i am getting diginoise, weird

[02:56:55]

sphery:

whimmel1: if that works, change the theme painter in the settings. If it doesn't work, try the same thing again but with the exports I mentioned earlier

[02:57:29]

sphery:

markl_: you'd need to be running 0.23rc1 or higher, too

[02:57:44]

sphery:

TTBOMK, 24-bit sound doesn't work in 0.22-fixes and below

[03:00:45]

whimmel1:

sphery: with and without the qt override and with and without the exports, same behavior. I'm sure it's something stupid at this point.

[03:01:01]

markl_:

hmm, it can't even play it back on the analog channel like vlc?

[03:01:21]

sphery:

whimmel1: oops... I actually meant: mythfrontend -O ThemePainter=opengl

[03:01:34]

whimmel1:

oh, tried that earlier

[03:01:40]

sphery:

whimmel1: sorry--just very seldom that we need to do it that way, so my fingers typed it the other way

[03:01:57]

sphery:

and you tried opengl with and without the exports?

[03:02:03]

whimmel1:

yeah

[03:02:19]

wagnerrp:

so... i clean up some process in the bindings, make it more compact, reuse code from elsewhere

[03:02:21]

sphery:

don't know what it could be, then

[03:02:24]

wagnerrp:

and it grows by 41 lines

[03:02:27]

** wagnerrp gives up **

[03:02:28]

sphery:

something with X/video drivers, likely

[03:03:16]

sphery:

wagnerrp: you're not supposed to make code smaller

[03:03:43]

sphery:

Haven't you ever heard of code bloat? It doesn't just happen on its own, you know. You have to work at it.

[03:04:12]

markl_:

hmm i am on the autobuilds.mythbuntu archive, 0.22 plus fixes

[03:04:21]

markl_:

ubuntu 9.10 distro

[03:04:22]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, and if you're really lucky, people get so accustomed to your code, that you're not allowed to rip it out... EVER.

[03:04:34]

markl_:

is it easy to get up to 0.23 rc1?

[03:04:39]

sphery:

markl_: 0.22-fixes is not 0.23rc1

[03:04:53]

wagnerrp:

well... it almost is

[03:04:57]

wagnerrp:

off by what, two commits?

[03:04:58]

sphery:

I don't know if they have a build for rc1 (or 0.23-fixes) available, yet

[03:05:03]

markl_:

only off by one

[03:05:05]

sphery:

your best bet is likely to wait for it, though

[03:05:09]

markl_:

one hundredth

[03:05:22]

wagnerrp:

oh, 0.22-fixes, not 0.23-fixes

[03:05:24]

wagnerrp:

misread

[03:05:26]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[03:05:33]

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[03:06:06]

markl_:

mythtv deinterlacing is excellent

[03:06:09]

sphery:

markl_: 0.23rc1 was just tagged last night, so it should be available soon enough

[03:06:16]

markl_:

ah ok

[03:06:35]

sphery:

and the upgrade from 0.22-fixes to 0.23rc1 should be pretty simple (especially compared to 0.21-fixes to 0.22-fixes upgrade)

[03:06:38]

markl_:

i am looking forward to being on another ubuntu LTS again

[03:11:57]

k-man:

has any thought ever been given to having some sort of crash feedback on mythtv? ie, if it crashes, it sends a report somewhere to help with diagnosis?

[03:12:49]

wagnerrp:

like trac?

[03:13:27]

wagnerrp:

trac at least hopes that by the requirement of manual creation, the user will spend some time to look for duplicates

[03:13:44]

k-man:

well, i more sort of meant an automated way

[03:14:10]

wagnerrp:

if there were some automated system, we would be inundated with duplicates

[03:14:34]

k-man:

wagnerrp: more to gather statistical analysis of crash frequency, so one might know which areas to spend most time in finding bugs... but of course, that just records bugs that cause a crash

[03:14:43]

wagnerrp:

besides... mythtv rarely actually crashes anyway

[03:14:54]

wagnerrp:

it always just fails to do something or another

[03:15:11]

k-man:

wagnerrp: very true – i used to get the occasional crash in .21 frontend, haven't used .22 long enough to know if its gone yet

[03:15:29]

k-man:

wagnerrp: mythmusic often crashed for me in .21

[03:16:03]

wagnerrp:

i get the occasional crash in the recordings screen when i try to do something too fast

[03:16:16]

wagnerrp:

but i cant recall the last time the backend has crashed

[03:16:31]

k-man:

wagnerrp: oh yeah, i used to get that too – if you try and watch a recording before it starts showing the preview

[03:16:43]

k-man:

wagnerrp: no, me either

[03:19:05]

sphery:

mythmusic crashes are usually due to ProjectM visualizations

[03:19:21]

k-man:

i turned off visualisations in mythmusic

[03:19:42]

k-man:

i think it crashed randomly for me, and also sometimes crashes when it tries to play a file it does not like

[03:20:25]

k-man:

but that comes down to my point, it could be valuable to have automated crash notification to a central server, that would record crashes and what myth was doing at the time.... patterns might emerge from that

[03:20:50]

k-man:

i read a great article on that sort of crash analysis once, i think it was joel on software but i can't seem to find it now

[03:21:38]

k-man:

acutally, it might have been on coding horryr

[03:21:40]

k-man:

horro

[03:21:48]

k-man:

_horror_

[03:22:49]

k-man:

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/05/crash-responsibly.html

[03:30:04]

sphery:

Heh, just saw the Sharp Quattron commercial. I'm not sold.

[03:30:28]

iamlindoro:

Until we have enough contributors to deal with the tickets that are voluntary, dealing with every crash, out of context, is totally out of the question

[03:30:52]

iamlindoro:

Our issue is not in knowing where crashes happen, it's in having mor than ten people who will actually fix them

[03:31:10]

sphery:

agreed

[03:32:22]

wagnerrp:

but they had Sulu... from the 23rd century...

[03:32:31]

sphery:

there was that...

[03:32:37]

wagnerrp:

men from the future cant be wrong

[03:33:06]

sphery:

I just think the world's not ready for being able to see gold on TV.

[03:33:21]

sphery:

Maybe in the 23rd century they are, but today? No.

[03:33:50]

wagnerrp:

its the kind of thing i wont believe unless i actually see it side-by-side with another (properly configured) tv

[03:35:16]

sphery:

agreed

[03:35:34]

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[03:36:24]

pjcrux:

hello, I'm reinstalling mythtv on fedora 12 and I'm in the mythtv-setup and am scanning for channels and the scan cannot get a lock past channel 15 anyone have any thoughts?

[03:36:27]

k-man:

iamlindoro: but again, thats the whole point of it, not to deal with each crash, but to gather stats, ie, for example, it might be found that 80% of crashes happen when starting to watch a recording or something, then any dev will know thats a great place to start fixing bugs

[03:36:31]

clever:

it would help if the bug server did the dups checking for you

[03:36:40]

wagnerrp:

youre trying to scan analog?

[03:36:41]

clever:

and just incremented the count of how much it happened

[03:36:46]

iamlindoro:

k-man, we are not lacking for places to work on

[03:36:47]

pjcrux:

yes wagnerrp

[03:36:59]

iamlindoro:

and each of us is well aware of the buggier aspects of Myth

[03:37:02]

wagnerrp:

MythTV 0.22 / FC12 does not support analog scanning

[03:37:32]

k-man:

iamlindoro: but if you have 2 crash reports, how do you decide wich one to work on? surely it would be useful to know which crash is the most frequent, and hence the most important to work on?

[03:37:35]

pjcrux:

so fetching is the only option then?

[03:37:48]

k-man:

anyway, its just a suggestion

[03:37:58]

k-man:

i'm stop discussing now as i'm not a dev

[03:38:35]

iamlindoro:

k-man, I work on the one which is more important. Or I work on the one that looks easy. Or I work on the one with the lower number. Or I play playstation because screw Myth today.

[03:39:07]

pjcrux:

so iamlindoro you take a heuristic approach to it then? lol

[03:40:25]

wagnerrp:

pjcrux: yes, either fetching from your listings provider

[03:40:29]

wagnerrp:

or inserting them manually

[03:40:36]

pjcrux:

fetching it is

[03:40:38]

wagnerrp:

or switching to 0.23rc where analog support works again

[03:40:42]

wagnerrp:

erm... analog scanning

[03:40:55]

wagnerrp:

however if you live in the US, you should never need scanning

[03:41:03]

wagnerrp:

as you can just fetch the analog lineup from schedules direct

[03:41:14]

pjcrux:

what is the estimated release of 0.23?

[03:41:33]

pjcrux:

6 months, a year, when the sun hangs over the moon....

[03:41:36]

wagnerrp:

days

[03:41:44]

pjcrux:

really?

[03:41:47]

pjcrux:

sweet

[03:41:54]

wagnerrp:

'0.23rc' means release candidate

[03:42:01]

wagnerrp:

meaning its in preparation for official release

[03:43:03]

pjcrux:

yes sir, knew what it was. but an RC can be out for months before the product is ready

[03:43:20]

pjcrux:

depending upon the org creating it

[03:43:29]

pjcrux:

thanks for the help again wagnerrp

[03:43:39]

pjcrux:

seems whenever I have trouble your around

[03:43:55]

wagnerrp:

mythtv has a somewhat odd development cycle

[03:44:06]

wagnerrp:

its trunk right up until its not

[03:44:27]

wagnerrp:

and usually the 'its not' part happens within a week or two of release

[03:44:58]

pjcrux:

lol, I know what you mean. I help on the Amahi project... things aren't normal ever. The devil is always in the details

[03:45:15]

wagnerrp:

releases basically happen when the devs feel mythtv is good and stable, and then trunk is broken in some other new internal rewrite of something or another

[03:52:41]

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[03:53:19]

slacktv:

hello everyone, I'm trying to get mythwebtv to work but keep getting the following error

[03:53:35]

rcampbel:

need help – can't change theme in windows frontend – where in fs or db is current theme stored?

[03:53:36]

slacktv:

Warning at /var/www/htdocs/mythweb/modules/_shared/tmpl/_errors/db_vars_error.php, line 23: require(modules/_shared/tmpl/tmpl/header.php) [function.require]: failed to open stream: No such file or directo

[03:53:38]

iamlindoro:

error: does not exist?

[03:53:56]

kormoc:

slacktv: your database settings are incorrect

[03:54:38]

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[03:55:24]

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[03:55:51]

sphery:

rcampbel: what do you mean you can't change it? Just exit mythfrontend and restart

[03:56:15]

sphery:

rcampbel: chances are it will be changed to whatever you selected before you said "can't change theme" :)

[03:56:29]

sphery:

rcampbel: (so make sure you change it in mythfrontend's Appearance settings before exiting)

[03:56:30]

rcampbel:

sphery: running binaries for mythfrontend I downloaded and I can't enter setup from mythfrontend

[03:56:36]

rcampbel:

just hangs

[03:56:41]

slacktv:

I dont' think so, it seems that modules/_shared/tmpl/.tmpl. is not being resolved.

[03:57:00]

sphery:

rcampbel: ah, try: mythfrontend -O Theme=MythCenter

[03:57:08]

iamlindoro:

Windows is only a supported platform (and even then, grudgingly) when you compile yourself

[03:57:13]

k-man:

rcampbel: mythfontend has a way of getting into mythtv-setup?

[03:57:13]

sphery:

slacktv: kormoc's answer is correct

[03:57:32]

sphery:

slacktv: that's a know issue--the error message that says that your DB settings are wrong doesn't work when your DB settings are wrong

[03:57:59]

rcampbel:

iamlindoro/k-man – understood – have plenty of linux frontends, not mythtv-setup, but utilities/setup

[03:58:03]

sphery:

k-man: he means mythfrontend settings :)

[03:58:30]

iamlindoro:

rcampbel, What I'm getting at is that the issue you are having is almost definitely related to your using someone else's binary

[03:58:46]

iamlindoro:

And that things will likely work properly if you compile yourself (which is the only method we support)

[03:59:29]

rcampbel:

iamlindoro – understood, that's why I was looking for a quick & dirty way to change theme. works okay, but don't really want to turn netbook into compile environment

[04:00:01]

sphery:

so don't use the netbook for mythtv?

[04:00:21]

sphery:

or run a real OS on the netbook?

[04:00:34]

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[04:01:02]

slacktv:

okay when you say database settings are wrong are you talking about the variables on my httpd.conf such as setenv db_server ...

[04:01:31]

sphery:

slacktv: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8158

[04:01:59]

rcampbel:

I was curious to see how the windows frontend is coming along... that's all. pretty decent compared to MythTv Player

[04:02:35]

sphery:

slacktv: so, either those settings are wrong; or you have no DB; or you have a DB, but it's empty; or your MySQL permissions are broken

[04:02:39]

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[04:03:11]

sphery:

slacktv: basically, MythWeb can't use the DB. You'll have to figure out what's misconfigured that causes that.

[04:04:16]

slacktv:

+sphery: DB is not empty, MySQL permissions are okay.. I'll read through the link you provided thanx.

[04:13:14]

k-man:

i don't really understand the need for the windows frontend personaly

[04:14:47]

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[04:17:14]

rcampbel:

k-man – dont' understand need for portable code? why not have a windows frontend?

[04:17:48]

rcampbel:

I'm no Microsoft lover, but I have to have somewhere to sync my iphone ;)

[04:19:17]

kormoc:

os x, which is a nice unix platform

[04:19:50]

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[04:40:22]

vhann:

Does someone knows where to plug the "Hauppauge PVR-150 IR Blaster": http://www.snapstream.com/images/store/PVR-150_IR_Blaster.jpg into the card: http://www.peach-tech.co.nz/gifs/pvr150mce_board_big.jpg ;?

[04:40:54]

wagnerrp:

theres a little 2.5mm jack

[04:40:56]

iamlindoro:

You don't

[04:41:06]

iamlindoro:

the second board is an MCE baord, and by definition has no IR port

[04:41:27]

iamlindoro:

MCE boards are meant come with MCEUSB USB IR receivers and emitters

[04:42:03]

vhann:

iamlindoro: So if my card is not a MCE board, there should be a 3.5mm ("line-in") input on it?

[04:42:31]

iamlindoro:

well, not line in, but 3.5mm, yes

[04:42:53]

vhann:

Ok, thanks

[04:42:53]

wagnerrp:

i cant find any read shots of anything but the MCE versions...

[04:43:11]

wagnerrp:

all the non-MCE images are top down

[04:43:37]

wagnerrp:

here we go... http://www.hauppauge.com/images/pvr150-250_ep_bg.jpg

[04:45:02]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Would this be another one: http://techreport.com/r.x/tuner-comparo/pvr150lp-34.jpg ?

[04:45:11]

vhann:

*another non-MCE one?

[04:45:31]

iamlindoro:

That's the low profile version

[04:45:41]

wagnerrp:

the low profile was only available as an MCE version

[04:45:42]

iamlindoro:

ie half-height

[04:45:45]

wagnerrp:

(with no IR)

[04:46:26]

vhann:

Ok

[04:46:53]

vhann:

And would this be appropriate to use with a MCE board? http://cgi.ebay.com/New-HP-MCE-USB-IR-Receive . . . em3a5434478e ?

[04:47:22]

iamlindoro:

jpabq, Nice fix on the cutdown stuff, that's definitely worth a backport at some point IMO

[04:47:46]

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[04:48:11]

wagnerrp:

vhann: theres nothing appropriate to use with an MCE board

[04:48:14]

wagnerrp:

it has no IR

[04:48:22]

wagnerrp:

so whatever you use makes exactly no difference

[04:48:28]

wagnerrp:

find anything you like

[04:49:17]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Ah ok

[04:49:41]

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[04:49:42]

vhann:

Do you know of any cheap and LIRC supported IR transmitters?

[04:49:56]

iamlindoro:

abqjp, "<iamlindoro> jpabq, Nice fix on the cutdown stuff, that's definitely worth a backport at some point IMO"

[04:50:04]

nickanderson:

suggestions for a quiet frontend that can do hdmi?

[04:50:09]

jpabq:

iamlindoro, I happend to have one show title (out my 1500 recordings) that was not being cutdown correctly.

[04:50:25]

iamlindoro:

most of the nVidia ION boxes make quite HDMI output boxes that work well with myth

[04:50:46]

iamlindoro:

jpabq, cool... and backport to .23, of course, is what I mean :)

[04:51:00]

wagnerrp:

s/quite/quiet/

[04:51:02]

iamlindoro:

s/quite/quiet/

[04:51:06]

wagnerrp:

booyah!

[04:51:07]

iamlindoro:

heh

[04:51:19]

kisak:

indeed, they are quite interesting

[04:51:45]

jpabq:

iamlindoro, would this not go into a RC2, or do you think we won't need a RC2?

[04:52:12]

iamlindoro:

jpabq, I would hope that the stuff applied so far won't merit an RC2... but we'll see

[04:52:31]

iamlindoro:

jpabq, It would be nice if the RC was actually publicized, of course

[04:53:08]

jpabq:

nickanderson, ASRock ION330-HT are nice little boxes which include ir receiver and remove. They also have a version with a built in blu-ray drive.

[04:53:22]

nickanderson:

s/remove/remote/

[04:53:31]

jpabq:

:)

[04:53:48]

nickanderson:

cool

[04:53:52]

nickanderson:

ill look that up

[04:53:53]

wagnerrp:

for all the good a blu-ray drive will do

[04:53:58]

nickanderson:

lol

[04:54:23]

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[04:54:24]

jpabq:

We have used some of those ASRock boxes at work, and I like they way they have the cooling setup in them. They are very quiet.

[04:54:28]

nickanderson:

yeh not looking to build this one, ive built plenty of boxes and im getting lazy

[04:59:09]

nickanderson:

those looks pretty nice

[05:00:10]

jpabq:

nickanderson, I have not actually tried to run Myth on one of those, but I don't see why it would not work.

[05:00:43]

iamlindoro:

I have done multiple myth installs on the Asrock 330s

[05:00:53]

iamlindoro:

everything works very well

[05:01:07]

wagnerrp:

is that what you ended up replacing those ATVs with?

[05:01:25]

iamlindoro:

yeah

[05:02:44]

jpabq:

iamlindoro, Maybe you should respond to the Theme Contest thread complaints about the inability to test — telling them to try RC1 ;-)

[05:03:18]

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[05:03:26]

iamlindoro:

jpabq, I have unsubscribed from all lists containing theme contest complaints

[05:03:32]

iamlindoro:

very good for my blood pressure

[05:03:50]

jpabq:

:)

[05:05:00]

jpabq:

Is there an RC1 announcement (download link) on the website somewhere?

[05:05:27]

iamlindoro:

nope, but not from lack of begging

[05:05:35]

jpabq:

Ah.

[05:05:39]

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[05:05:52]

sphery:

iamlindoro gives up way too easily

[05:05:55]

iamlindoro:

I made the tarballs, the tag, the branch, pestered to get the tarballs uploaded...

[05:06:01]

sphery:

no, wait--he singlehandledly got the rc

[05:06:08]

iamlindoro:

and have asked three times to have an announcement made with no effect

[05:06:18]

iamlindoro:

so I give up, whatever :)

[05:07:34]

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[05:19:22]

Jester05:

guy I have to admit.. I'm impressed with my little old P4 MBE/FE's ability to record, playback, and stream data across my network

[05:19:50]

Jester05:

pulling 30Mbs across the network while recording 1 show and watching another show live

[05:20:04]

aloril:

what is simplest way to have *really* simple scheduling (==just grab next available input)? hack code?

[05:20:17]

nickanderson:

yeh ive got a craptastic old emachines thats my backend

[05:20:29]

nickanderson:

supprisingly does pretty well

[05:20:38]

nickanderson:

paired with hdhomerun

[05:20:48]

Jester05:

I've been considering building a new beastly machine for my backend work

[05:20:53]

whimmel1:

sphery: regular Gentoo housekeeping got it fixed (revdep-rebuild over and over and then reboot)

[05:20:54]

[R]:

aloril: huh?

[05:21:07]

Jester05:

simply b/c I want my backend to also be a router, firewall, email server, etc

[05:21:48]

wagnerrp:

none of those tasks require anything particularly beastly

[05:21:55]

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[05:22:08]

nickanderson:

unless your a spamking

[05:22:25]

whimmel1:

Jester05: I'm looking to do the opposite. I have too many things on one box that can screw up recordings

[05:22:59]

Jester05:

whimmel1, really? I have all hardware encoders.. you think its still sketchy?

[05:23:00]

wagnerrp:

i mean my dinky 500MHz geode router could handle my email as well without a problem

[05:23:00]

nickanderson:

i would put it on the same hardware, but i would virtualize for seperation

[05:23:00]

aloril:

[R]: database has grown too big, its getting slow and recording 8 channels: 2 cards, 4 channels each: it uses normally 20% of CPU, but scheduling makes it use 100% and now even that isn't anymore enough

[05:23:31]

Jester05:

well the problem I have is my current backend is an old P4 2.8ghz and its mobo only has 2 sata ports

[05:23:37]

aloril:

[R]: I can have any number virtual cards, so even if it recorded temporarily for some minutes 16 channels, that would still be ok

[05:23:47]

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[05:23:47]

Jester05:

I'm looking at wanting to have a pretty decent sized raid configuration

[05:23:53]

aloril:

(40% CPU, and IO is enough too)

[05:24:00]

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[05:24:10]

Jester05:

you think I'd be alright to use my P4 machine to record but have it record to an NFS on a new machine?

[05:24:10]

wagnerrp:

plus its a P4

[05:24:28]

wagnerrp:

if youre buying new hardware, just toss the P4

[05:24:30]

nickanderson:

you can always seperate out the storage

[05:24:39]

whimmel1:

if you do that then it goes across your network twice

[05:24:43]

nickanderson:

nfs, iscsi, aoe

[05:24:48]

iamlindoro:

aloril, The myth scheduler is an enormously complicated bit of code-- the only way you can make it just blindly grab the next input will be to rip it out and write your own.

[05:25:15]

Jester05:

how do you guys handle things.. have a local HDD for recordings in your backend then have you video/music on a NFS else where?

[05:25:17]

jpabq:

It helps a LOT to have the database on a different mech than the show storage.

[05:25:29]

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[05:25:49]

wagnerrp:

one of my backends servers as central storage for another backend and two more frontends

[05:26:15]

wagnerrp:

recordings and video are over storage groups, music is over nfs

[05:26:43]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, what sort of hardware are you running in terms of CPUs in the BEs and what sort of HDD configurations are we talking about

[05:27:02]

wagnerrp:

one 1.8GHz opteron

[05:27:15]

Jester05:

i would, at the very least, like to have all of my movies/music backed up via raid

[05:27:18]

wagnerrp:

9-drive RAID6, 2-drive RAID1, 3 spare drives for recordings

[05:27:41]

Jester05:

what do your two Raid configurations support.. music/movies?

[05:27:47]

aloril:

still it will eventually run out of resources, I guess simplest way it to rip out code and configure enough virtual cards and let it just grab first one

[05:28:02]

Jester05:

I've heard its not worth trying to record to a raid configuration.. your thoughts?

[05:28:02]

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[05:28:34]

wagnerrp:

raid6 is archive, music, movies, archived tv shows, various assorted backups

[05:29:04]

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[05:29:18]

wagnerrp:

raid1 is all of my servers, database, boot images for all other mythtv machines (theyre all diskless)

[05:29:25]

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[05:29:29]

Jester05:

hmm

[05:29:30]

Jester05:

nice

[05:29:51]

Jester05:

I probably should just pitch that P4 machine i have.. that or keep it as a FE for out in the garage or something

[05:30:08]

wagnerrp:

its barely powerful enough for ATSC content

[05:30:12]

Jester05:

I mean it "works" as a MBE/FE but its not stable..

[05:30:18]

Jester05:

not does it do everything I want

[05:30:36]

Jester05:

exactly..

[05:30:47]

Jester05:

the best I can get out of it is OTA

[05:31:19]

Jester05:

I could use it as a slaved BE tho I guess..

[05:31:50]

Jester05:

all of my tuner cards are PCI.. I have 4 in total, I don't know that I'll be able to fit 4 PCI's in the new MBE when I build it

[05:31:53]

nickanderson:

ive got a celery 2.9 ghz as my backend

[05:31:57]

Jester05:

I'm trying to keep things on the cheap if possible

[05:32:02]

nickanderson:

i can record hd no issue

[05:32:10]

nickanderson:

5 disk raid5

[05:32:29]

Jester05:

really.. I've heard raid5 was pretty slow..

[05:32:42]

wagnerrp:

depends on how you do it

[05:32:46]

Jester05:

for SD heard it was fine but HD typically had issues

[05:32:48]

nickanderson:

and compared to what

[05:33:08]

nickanderson:

i mean raid10 would be best

[05:33:17]

nickanderson:

but thats overkill

[05:33:20]

Jester05:

trying to say stream a h256 encryption while also recording to the drive

[05:33:32]

wagnerrp:

wha?

[05:33:35]

nickanderson:

depends on how many spindals you have

[05:33:49]

Jester05:

hmm

[05:33:51]

wagnerrp:

no...

[05:34:03]

nickanderson:

the more drives you have the better raid 5 will be

[05:34:06]

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[05:34:08]

wagnerrp:

mirroring is better for concurrent reads, but is slow for writes

[05:34:22]

Jester05:

yeah

[05:34:36]

** iamlindoro notes that it's "H.264", which isn't an encryption **

[05:34:38]

wagnerrp:

striping is better for linear read/write, but is bad for current reads larger than a single block size (usually 128 or 256kb)

[05:34:46]

Jester05:

I'm not sure I fully understand how RAID5.. 3/4 work exactly

[05:34:51]

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[05:35:03]

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[05:35:19]

wagnerrp:

parity (5/6) is only bad if you are doing writes smaller than a stripe set (128 or 256 x the number of disks)

[05:35:27]

wagnerrp:

as it has to do a read/calculate/write

[05:35:37]

wagnerrp:

there is no better or worse

[05:35:39]

Jester05:

how does a RAID5 configuration function entirely

[05:35:46]

wagnerrp:

they each have advantages for different situations

[05:35:52]

wagnerrp:

do you know how RAID0 functions?

[05:35:58]

Jester05:

yeah

[05:36:01]

wagnerrp:

same thing

[05:36:11]

wagnerrp:

except one of the blocks is reserved for parity

[05:36:29]

wagnerrp:

and in each stripe set, that parity block moves around on different hard drives

[05:36:35]

wagnerrp:

so one single drive doesnt hold all the parity

[05:36:59]

Jester05:

well I get that 3 of the drives are RAID0 together essentially but how does it handle a failure?

[05:37:11]

wagnerrp:

the parity is basically just a big huge XOR calculation

[05:37:19]

wagnerrp:

and XOR is reversible

[05:37:40]

wagnerrp:

lets say you have two bytes of data you want to store

[05:37:45]

wagnerrp:

say 24 and 78

[05:37:48]

Jester05:

alright

[05:37:52]

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[05:37:56]

wagnerrp:

the calculated parity would be 86

[05:38:07]

wagnerrp:

how you lose the disk that stores 24

[05:38:13]

wagnerrp:

so now you have 78 and 86

[05:38:29]

wagnerrp:

you calculate the parity of that, and you get 24

[05:38:36]

Jester05:

ahh

[05:38:42]

Jester05:

I get it..

[05:38:53]

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[05:39:16]

Jester05:

just as a question of functionality though.. say you lose your #2 drive.. what are the steps in rectifying the situation

[05:39:38]

nickanderson:

that depends on the raid software

[05:39:39]

Jester05:

replace the #2 drive and what do you have to do to get the configuration to bring that second drive up to speed

[05:39:41]

wagnerrp:

as in youve lose both drives containing the data, and all youre left with is the parity drive?

[05:39:50]

wagnerrp:

oh, yeah

[05:39:53]

wagnerrp:

you just swap the drive

[05:40:09]

wagnerrp:

and depending on how its set up, you notify the software/hardware to use the new disk

[05:40:15]

nickanderson:

you may have to mark that drive to go into the raidset

[05:40:24]

Jester05:

hmm

[05:40:28]

Jester05:

interesting stuff..

[05:40:29]

wagnerrp:

on my card, i dont have to do anything

[05:40:43]

Jester05:

sorry.. I've never dealt with RAID.. obv ;)

[05:40:45]

nickanderson:

if you want to play with linux raid you can do so with files

[05:40:46]

wagnerrp:

if i insert a new drive of identical or larger size, it will automatically rebuild onto it

[05:41:17]

Jester05:

nice.. wagnerrp is that software or hardware raid?

[05:41:32]

wagnerrp:

hardware

[05:41:46]

Jester05:

done by mobo or sep controller?

[05:42:15]

wagnerrp:

separate controller

[05:42:41]

Jester05:

alright, another probably idiotic question for you..

[05:42:56]

Jester05:

what is the functionality of a RAID 1+0 vs 0+1

[05:43:02]

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[05:43:10]

nickanderson:

mirror and stripe vs stripe and mirror

[05:43:15]

wagnerrp:

one mirrors and then stripes, the other stripes and the mirrors

[05:43:15]

kormoc:

don't bother with the majority of hardware controllers, they're actually mainly software done

[05:43:37]

wagnerrp:

yeah, youre looking at 300+ before you get into actual hardware raid

[05:43:41]

Jester05:

is there a benefit of doing one before another?

[05:43:55]

Jester05:

ohh.. then I'll be going software ;)

[05:43:56]

kormoc:

Jester05: currency vs throughput

[05:43:56]

wagnerrp:

consider you mirror and then stripe

[05:43:58]

nickanderson:

hardware controllers are nice, problem comes if it dies, you have to get the same card again

[05:44:08]

wagnerrp:

you only have two failure modes that would cause a loss of data

[05:44:10]

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[05:44:13]

nickanderson:

with linux raid its portable to any old linux machine

[05:44:15]

wagnerrp:

and thats both drives in one of the mirrors failing

[05:44:35]

wagnerrp:

now consider mirrored stripes

[05:45:02]

wagnerrp:

if you have one drive on both stripes fail, youve lost data

[05:45:36]

wagnerrp:

with four drives, there are 6 possible ways you could have two drives fail

[05:45:49]

wagnerrp:

with 0+1, 4 of those will result in data loss

[05:45:57]

wagnerrp:

with 1+0, only 2 of those will result in data loss

[05:45:59]

kormoc:

let's say you have 4 drives, if you mirror and then stripe, you have 4 logical readable targets and two logical write targets, if you stripe and then mirror, you have two logical read targets, and two logical write targets. Having fewer logical read targets means your reads should go faster, but you'll be limited to two threads at once

[05:46:40]

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[05:46:57]

kormoc:

(depending on data layout and stripe sizes)

[05:47:04]

wagnerrp:

its all percentages and tradeoffs

[05:47:18]

Jester05:

hmm.. I think I need to try to grasp the basics of its functionality better.. thought I had a better handle on it but the alcohol seems to be impairing me lol

[05:47:18]

wagnerrp:

some have better performance in some aspects, others perform better in other aspects

[05:47:30]

wagnerrp:

some have better redundancy and failure recovery

[05:47:36]

Jester05:

yeah

[05:47:41]

wagnerrp:

others have less waste of disk space

[05:48:00]

nickanderson:

the thing to be aware of with the super large drives is possible disk failure during rebuild from previous disk failure

[05:48:08]

wagnerrp:

no its not

[05:48:14]

nickanderson:

yes it is

[05:48:17]

kormoc:

and it also depends on the number of drives, as once you get around 12 tb of space, raid-5 makes little sense

[05:48:18]

nickanderson:

rebuilds take longer

[05:48:20]

wagnerrp:

no, thats a bunch of FUD

[05:48:32]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: actually, it's sorta true

[05:48:33]

wagnerrp:

as those numbers they quote are completely BS

[05:48:35]

nickanderson:

rebuilds do take longer

[05:48:45]

kormoc:

it's unrelated to rebuilds taking longer

[05:48:57]

wagnerrp:

its a function of the bit-error-rate

[05:49:08]

kormoc:

it's the percent chance of a drive having a unreadable sector that was undetected until during the rebuild

[05:49:15]

wagnerrp:

the claim is that you get ~100 trillion bits between unrecoverable errors

[05:49:33]

kormoc:

at around 12–15 tb, that gets to be a fair percent and thus raid-6 would make more sense

[05:49:42]

Jester05:

hmm

[05:49:44]

wagnerrp:

which means that as you approach 12tb (100T bits) of space, you have a very good chance of hitting an unrecoverable error before the rebuild

[05:49:52]

wagnerrp:

the problem is like i said, those numbers are completely bogus

[05:50:00]

kormoc:

that said, having a little more aggressive verification helps

[05:50:21]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: it's not that they're bogus, they're just a general statistic

[05:50:26]

wagnerrp:

as you may notice, shortly after the article about that came out, WD bumped their UBER to 1 quadrillion bits

[05:50:37]

wagnerrp:

completely arbitrarily

[05:50:54]

Jester05:

so how do you guys handle your database and/or the / for your MBE OSs

[05:51:08]

Jester05:

do you put those on RAID'd space?

[05:51:18]

Jester05:

I would assume you record to single drives

[05:51:36]

wagnerrp:

all my applications and database storage is on a mirror

[05:52:02]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, but your recordings occur on a non RAID drive.. sorry I know you stated this b4

[05:52:17]

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[05:52:18]

wagnerrp:

yes, three spare 300GB drives from my old array

[05:52:33]

wagnerrp:

which gives me a couple months of storage room for recordings

[05:52:37]

Jester05:

do you have them in a RAID0 configuration or using record groups

[05:52:47]

wagnerrp:

completely independent

[05:52:51]

Jester05:

ohh

[05:52:57]

wagnerrp:

RAID0 is useless for recordings

[05:53:06]

wagnerrp:

youll get much better performance with independent drives

[05:53:09]

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[05:53:15]

Jester05:

ohh

[05:53:22]

wagnerrp:

not that it really matters because of how far below the performance capacity you are of even a single drive

[05:53:26]

Jester05:

hmm I'm perplexed now lol

[05:53:44]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: meh, the statistics were also calculated based on no verification taking place and other variables that you can change in your favor

[05:54:08]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: i dont deny that its a problem

[05:54:21]

wagnerrp:

im just saying that those stated reliability numbers should be taken with a grain of salt

[05:54:37]

wagnerrp:

and while you will eventually run into that problem, no one really knows where it will hit

[05:54:38]

kormoc:

oh, for sure

[05:54:45]

wagnerrp:

but its definately not at 10+tb

[05:55:05]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: striping is good for one thing, very fast sequential access

[05:55:05]

Jester05:

the thing is, I don't really know what I want to do MBE/FE wise.. currently I have MBE and main FE on the same box to cut down cost.. however seems like the FE has issues that cause me to have to reboot the MBE. Of course I am running old machinery

[05:55:08]

kormoc:

but in any case, anyone running 6+ drives in a raid-5 has the room/resources to spare to bump it to a raid-6

[05:55:44]

wagnerrp:

if you have large block sizes, you can get concurrency so long as your read/writes are below the size of single block

[05:56:03]

wagnerrp:

independent drives are good for concurrency, but limited in individual throughput

[05:56:19]

Jester05:

what I'm trying to decide is whether or not i want to separate my MBE and FE tasks to different machines

[05:56:25]

wagnerrp:

mirroring gets you some advantage in concurrency because you can read off each independently

[05:57:02]

wagnerrp:

basically, your absolute best performance is going to be from accessing independent drives, with one read/write thread per drive

[05:57:32]

Jester05:

if I were to build a new machine for FE I could dual boot it in windows and be able to fly my flight sim on my TV which would be cool and I could also continue to use my old P4 box as my backend

[05:57:49]

Jester05:

though the backend can only take 2 sata hdd's.. :-\

[05:57:53]

wagnerrp:

what flight sim?

[05:58:06]

wagnerrp:

you may be able to get it working under WINE

[05:58:16]

wagnerrp:

or one of WINE's many payware offspring

[05:58:23]

Jester05:

I'm gong to borrow my uncle's RC flight sim to knock off the rust

[05:58:32]

wagnerrp:

oh... RC

[05:58:48]

wagnerrp:

none of those were particularly high fidelity

[05:58:54]

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[05:59:04]

Jester05:

yeah.. I've got an RC heli that I started to learn to fly yrs ago but college got busy.. I just graduated so I'm getting my life back :)

[05:59:46]

wagnerrp:

heh... we built RC stuff for college

[05:59:47]

Jester05:

what do you think about having your MBE and main FE on the same box?

[06:00:11]

wagnerrp:

another tradeoff (seems were full of these)

[06:00:24]

kormoc:

it's how I run

[06:00:25]

wagnerrp:

if you combine them, you need to stuff all your hard drives and tuners into that machine

[06:00:35]

wagnerrp:

which means either you have a huge noisy box next to your tv

[06:00:42]

wagnerrp:

or youre severely limited in expansion

[06:00:51]

wagnerrp:

(like kormoc with his USB hard drives and tuners)

[06:01:24]

wagnerrp:

but if youre satisfied with what you can fit in a small box, more power to you

[06:01:29]

Jester05:

well i have a HUGE HTPC box in the livingroom now and its quiet but.. seems like its not liking doing both work

[06:01:48]

Jester05:

well I have a HTPC server box

[06:02:01]

wagnerrp:

that doesnt really fit....

[06:02:02]

Jester05:

its got rack space for ~9hdds

[06:02:17]

wagnerrp:

'HTPC' and 'server' dont really mesh

[06:02:18]

Jester05:

but.. the mobo it holds only has 2 sata ports

[06:02:29]

Jester05:

I know but its not your typical HTPC box..

[06:02:42]

Jester05:

at least not compared to my friends

[06:02:46]

wagnerrp:

anyway, for a combo box, youve got three options

[06:02:47]

Jester05:

granted they're running winblows

[06:03:56]

wagnerrp:

your big ugly Goliath, kormoc's small compact pretty but with limited expansion, or cutting holes in walls/floors to run video and USB through

[06:04:06]

wagnerrp:

ive got the latter on a FE/SBE combo

[06:04:16]

wagnerrp:

machine is in the basement, TV is directly above

[06:05:17]

Jester05:

well I'm pleased with the case I have in the living room.. looks extremely clean and being an engineer it seems fitting to have a big ol pc, htpc case in my living room

[06:05:25]

Jester05:

but I just don't know what guts I want to put in it lol

[06:05:38]

wagnerrp:

being an engineer, i like not having a big ol pc in my living room

[06:05:49]

Jester05:

I'm torn between trying to keep it an all-in-one box or just having it do FE work so I could dual boot it

[06:06:21]

Jester05:

well i have a full media stand with my receiver and everything else so it all kind of stacks together

[06:06:23]

wagnerrp:

although personally, i would be happy with a panel and a couple speakers on the walls, no other components

[06:06:27]

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[06:06:36]

Jester05:

my pc and receiver, roommates x360

[06:06:37]

Jester05:

lol

[06:07:41]

Jester05:

man I don't know what to do.. I don't want to just throw away any box when I can help it lol

[06:07:48]

wagnerrp:

the installation i saw someone have with a studio monitor mounted on the wall, and a mac mini stuffed behind it is almost what i would consider ideal

[06:08:00]

wagnerrp:

although im too cheap to buy apple hardware

[06:08:03]

Jester05:

but I don't think that P4 would be able to capture using a HDPVR

[06:08:15]

wagnerrp:

and i dislike those studio monitors

[06:08:25]

wagnerrp:

the HDPVR is a hardware encoder

[06:08:41]

Jester05:

oh is it..

[06:08:42]

Jester05:

hmm

[06:08:42]

wagnerrp:

meaning my P3 laptop and a USB2 card would be sufficient to capture from it

[06:08:54]

Jester05:

maybe I could squeeze some life out of that old P4 machine yet

[06:09:11]

wagnerrp:

youre better off not trying

[06:09:23]

Jester05:

lol

[06:09:44]

Jester05:

well if I continue down the mindset I've been having its going to lead me to having to build 2 new machines

[06:09:56]

wagnerrp:

swap out the guts with a low-power AMD chip, and youll recoup the cost in your power bill over the life of the machine

[06:10:03]

Jester05:

1 for multiple server rolls and another for FE/gaming

[06:10:39]

Jester05:

yea you're probably right about that

[06:10:50]

Jester05:

but having 4 PCI cards also throws some issue

[06:11:01]

Jester05:

hard to find a newer mobo w/ 4 PCI

[06:11:12]

wagnerrp:

you need 4 PCI slots?

[06:11:48]

wagnerrp:

a higher end P4 and an old video card is probably idling at well over 100W

[06:12:10]

Jester05:

2 analog tuners (1 tuning analog cable, 1 capturing cable box) 2 digital tuners (1 tuning OTA, the other "tuning" unencrypted digital cable though it'll be going to OTA)

[06:12:11]

wagnerrp:

a new dual core AMD will be under 50W

[06:12:29]

wagnerrp:

swap in a higher efficiency PSU, and youll be in under 40W

[06:14:00]

Jester05:

I still want to make a linux router/firewall too

[06:14:01]

Jester05:

:-\

[06:14:29]

Jester05:

figured if I were building a sep box for the MBE I could use that box for routing/firewall/NFS, MBE, etc

[06:14:49]

wagnerrp:

dd, open, or tomato... toss it on a cheap wireless router

[06:15:14]

wagnerrp:

or pick up an embedded ALIX or Soekris box

[06:15:32]

** wagnerrp has never liked running the firewall on the same machine as various network services **

[06:15:35]

Jester05:

yeah but why do that when I'm already going to have a NFS/MBE box on all the time?

[06:15:51]

Jester05:

whys that?

[06:17:08]

wagnerrp:

my complete lack of any real security knowledge says the more things you have running on your border firewall, the more points of entry and failure you have

[06:18:25]

Jester05:

to some extent I could agree with that however I'd assume your firewall would be keeping any of those tasks from reaching the outside world, to the extent that its intended, and vise versa

[06:18:38]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: you use shorewall?

[06:18:56]

wagnerrp:

nah, roll-your-own freebsd+pf

[06:19:20]

Jester05:

man I dont know what to do from this point

[06:19:41]

Jester05:

it'd be nice to keep the MBE/FE on the same box so I'd never have to wait for the FE to boot in the living room :) lol

[06:19:49]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: that's too bad. Shorewall makes it extremely easy to setup firewalls on linux right

[06:20:04]

wagnerrp:

about once a year, i build an updated image, dd it onto a 4GB flash card, and swap it with the one in the unit

[06:21:52]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: i could also go with pfsense or m0n0wall for freebsd... but ive generally wanted more control

[06:22:10]

wagnerrp:

(not that i really know what to do with it)

[06:22:21]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, do you use your BE(s) as the machine for your RAID configurations or have them on sep box(es)

[06:22:31]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: I can't say I've ever ran into a situation that shorewall didn't handle gracefully.

[06:22:45]

kormoc:

as it really is just a nice wrapper around iptables

[06:22:51]

wagnerrp:

what are you running it on?

[06:23:20]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: the hard drives are all in one machine, along with my master backend

[06:23:53]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: I run it on my gateway and any publicly hosted boxes, and the gateway configs are fairly complex

[06:24:16]

Jester05:

alright lol sorry I keep bugging you about your configuration.. just borrowing ideas ;)

[06:25:09]

wagnerrp:

serves up recordings and videos over storage groups, recordings over nfs to the other backend, iscsi for the boot images, and then the standard apache/courier/samba/hlds/mysql/svn/whatever_else servers

[06:25:24]

wagnerrp:

all a bit cramped on 2GB of memory

[06:25:28]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: i mean what hardware

[06:25:40]

Jester05:

hmm

[06:25:52]

wagnerrp:

yeah, dont skimp on the memory

[06:25:54]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: ooh, it's a collection of different boxes, mostly xeons or core2's

[06:25:55]

wagnerrp:

memory is cheap

[06:26:01]

wagnerrp:

4GB minimum

[06:26:26]

Jester05:

yeah thats what I was figuring

[06:26:26]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: ah, you mean big stuff for a good amount of traffic

[06:26:33]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: yeah

[06:26:37]

wagnerrp:

if just got this on a little embedded ALIX box

[06:26:45]

kormoc:

gotcha

[06:26:45]

wagnerrp:

handling a couple mbps

[06:26:57]

Jester05:

what do you guys think about those AMD tri-core's?

[06:27:12]

kormoc:

Jester05: same as I think of all AMD's offerings

[06:27:18]

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[06:27:19]

Jester05:

lol

[06:27:32]

wagnerrp:

i have reservations of purchasing hardware that has parts disabled because it was damaged

[06:27:44]

Jester05:

I'm an intel man myself.. just found an athlon II 3.0ghz tri-core for $85..

[06:28:08]

Jester05:

which is the only reason why I ask

[06:28:18]

Jester05:

otherwise I'd say intel no matter what

[06:28:30]

wagnerrp:

of course i did buy a release PS3, and those chips were all damaged similarly

[06:28:38]

Jester05:

the main box I'm on currently has an intel q9400

[06:28:42]

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[06:29:18]

Jester05:

I should just turn this quad 2.66 into my house server

[06:29:42]

wagnerrp:

i really need an upgrade

[06:29:43]

Jester05:

I think I want whatever box I set all this up on to also be capable of running x10

[06:30:41]

wagnerrp:

im out of disk space, out of memory, and could stand to have a lot more CPU

[06:31:07]

Jester05:

well the q9400 has dropped substantially since when I built this box ;)

[06:31:28]

Jester05:

only prob w/ this box is.. can't do high end 1080 :(

[06:32:39]

wagnerrp:

1080 what?

[06:32:56]

Jester05:

not really sure what it is.. downloaded some imax films lol

[06:33:01]

Jester05:

doesn't play them fluidly

[06:33:06]

wagnerrp:

eeew....

[06:33:19]

Jester05:

?

[06:33:21]

** wagnerrp evil monkey points **

[06:33:22]

kormoc:

we don't talk about pirated content in here

[06:33:27]

kormoc:

it will get you banned

[06:33:56]

Jester05:

well if it counts I "obtained" them from a member of the airforce lol

[06:33:58]

kormoc:

you really need to read the channel FAQ (in the topic)

[06:34:04]

Jester05:

and they were in charge of them..

[06:34:05]

Jester05:

lol

[06:34:13]

kormoc:

It doesn't count, final warning

[06:34:54]

Jester05:

no I mean I don't know if it was tech illegal.. the base has a way of just kind of claiming ownership to whatever they want and dong whatever they want with it

[06:35:03]

Jester05:

it was some imax video of some testing they did

[06:35:09]

wagnerrp:

IMAX exists in 70mm reels, digital imax exists in several hundred GB of JPEG2000

[06:35:23]

Jester05:

my senior design project was with the base

[06:35:45]

wagnerrp:

so whatever that is, its neither

[06:36:06]

Jester05:

I have 150gig on an external HDD titled the noisy_cricket b/c it chirps from time to time

[06:36:19]

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[06:36:25]

wagnerrp:

unless it really is one of those insanely high bitrate JPEG2000 recordings

[06:36:45]

Jester05:

they called it their imax camera..

[06:36:48]

Jester05:

lol

[06:36:49]

wagnerrp:

in which case you generally need a stripped RAID to get the necessary throughput to play them reliably

[06:37:07]

Jester05:

which would explain why this box won't do it :-\ lol

[06:37:17]

wagnerrp:

and hardware decoders, since youre not doing that in software decoding either

[06:37:29]

Jester05:

they hardware configuration they have on their recording boxes is NUTS

[06:37:54]

Jester05:

7 recording boxes

[06:38:17]

Jester05:

all loaded with 12TB I think it was

[06:38:22]

Jester05:

and 16gig ram ...

[06:38:30]

Jester05:

all diskless drives too

[06:38:44]

Jester05:

each recording box quite a few grand lol

[06:39:00]

wagnerrp:

generally taking that stuff off base is in violation of something more serious than our channel rules

[06:39:02]

Jester05:

but they do use them out during live fire testing..

[06:40:01]

Jester05:

no we had these laptops that were in conjuction with our school and the base but my awesome ubuntu install died during a reboot so I had to work from my desktop for a bit

[06:40:12]

Jester05:

either way those laptops they gave us didnt have enough power either

[06:40:51]

Jester05:

I was playing back sequences of FLIR images from some testing we did.. freaking filled the ram in no time on those things

[06:41:05]

Jester05:

60mb per frame.. 90 frames per second

[06:41:39]

Jester05:

doesn't help I was just using some code i whipped up in matlab real quick but still

[06:41:43]

wagnerrp:

on the plus side, of upgrading and switching to software raid, it seems this card has not depreciated in the entire time since i bought it over three years ago

[06:42:33]

Jester05:

thats good

[06:42:52]

wagnerrp:

the PCIX version of my card is going for ~$650 on ebay

[06:43:03]

wagnerrp:

or at least thats what the prices are, i dont know if theyre actually slling

[06:43:16]

Jester05:

in terms of graphix processing power.. how much will it cost me, ball park, to be able to playback the highest 1080p?

[06:43:37]

wagnerrp:

bluray? your processor will do it right now

[06:43:48]

wagnerrp:

and any $25 nvidia card will do it in hardware

[06:43:54]

Jester05:

hmm

[06:44:09]

Jester05:

so I wonder why i seem to have problems with some media then :-\

[06:44:29]

wagnerrp:

your C2Q that is, not the P4

[06:44:32]

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[06:44:50]

Jester05:

yeah.. even on the c2q I have problems

[06:45:00]

Jester05:

running a 9800gtx+ black edition

[06:45:07]

Jester05:

but running dual monitors too

[06:45:19]

wagnerrp:

shouldnt make any difference

[06:45:42]

Jester05:

well you have any good guesses as to what could be causing it then?

[06:46:00]

Jester05:

seems to handle 720 feeds alright but about anything 1080i range seems to do it in

[06:46:15]

wagnerrp:

nope

[06:46:21]

slacktv:

I have try to get mythweb-22 to work but have not been successfull, I been told in here it might be the database. Well I downloaded an older version of mythweb and it works just fine.

[06:46:44]

wagnerrp:

slacktv: the older version of mythweb works just fine with your current install?

[06:46:52]

slacktv:

yes

[06:46:52]

wagnerrp:

but the 0.22 version of mythweb does not?

[06:46:54]

kormoc:

slacktv: you know you need to match mythweb versions to backend versions, right?

[06:47:02]

wagnerrp:

kormoc++

[06:47:21]

wagnerrp:

if you mismatch schema/protocol versions, you WILL have problems

[06:47:43]

wagnerrp:

although it should come right out and tell you 'youre doing something bad'

[06:47:48]

kormoc:

well

[06:47:58]

slacktv:

I'm running mythtv svn and was trying to get mythweb svn and not working..

[06:47:59]

kormoc:

I think I broke that the same time I broke the database is broken page

[06:48:14]

wagnerrp:

svn... 0.22-fixes?

[06:48:31]

slacktv:

yes

[06:48:35]

wagnerrp:

because trunk != 0.22-fixes

[06:48:45]

wagnerrp:

and trunk is what people usually mean when they say svn

[06:48:47]

Jester05:

well gents I have to go

[06:49:00]

Jester05:

have to catch some zzz's and drive to TN in a few hours

[06:49:38]

kormoc:

slacktv: well, to get a error message, you can put a define('TMPL', 'default'); right above the error line and see what the error it's attempting to render is

[06:49:45]

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[06:50:07]

slacktv:

I'm not using trunk i'm using branches/release-0-22-fixes

[06:50:44]

kormoc:

and the version that works for you is?

[06:50:57]

kormoc:

(cause I know for a fact I haven't touched mythweb in that branch ever)

[06:51:54]

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[06:53:04]

kormoc:

mythweb in 0.22 has been static from r22425, any checkout of that branch is the same as any other one, regardless of the revision number

[06:53:35]

wagnerrp:

is that before or after ubuntu's shipped version?

[06:53:49]

wagnerrp:

for some reason im thinking theyre in the 500s

[06:53:50]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: that's the branch create revision, so before I'd hope

[06:54:00]

wagnerrp:

ah

[06:54:26]

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[06:56:00]

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[06:56:14]

slacktv:

sorry computer froze

[06:56:17]

kormoc:

slacktv: so what version of mythweb works and what one doesn't?

[06:56:33]

kormoc:

(branch and revision if they're svn checkouts)

[06:57:33]

slacktv:

I got the following tar mythweb-0.9.tar.bz2

[06:57:35]

sphery:

"Made with real ingredients, and ready in under 20 minutes, Stouffer's Easy Express helps you make a wholesome meal on any night."

[06:57:44]

** kormoc blinks **

[06:57:51]

sphery:

Um, is /anything/ in the world not made with real ingredients?

[06:58:08]

kormoc:

09-Jun-2003 23:30?

[06:58:31]

sphery:

MythWeb 0.9?

[06:58:38]

kormoc:

sphery: all the imaginary ingredients!

[06:58:45]

sphery:

heh

[06:58:47]

slacktv:

yse

[06:58:48]

wagnerrp:

sphery: depends on whether chopped up newspaper counts

[06:58:49]

slacktv:

yes

[06:58:51]

** kormoc blinks **

[06:58:57]

kormoc:

uhhhhhh

[06:59:07]

wagnerrp:

WOW

[06:59:15]

kormoc:

so you're running a 0.22 backend with a 0.9 mythweb?

[06:59:25]

wagnerrp:

how?

[06:59:33]

sphery:

slacktv: did you do something like use CVS to checkout MythTV?

[06:59:33]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: we didn't do detection that long ago

[06:59:47]

slacktv:

I'm running 0.22 and just try 0.9 to see if there was a problem with the DB.

[06:59:47]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: but the database structures are all different

[06:59:51]

sphery:

slacktv: as we switched to SVN around about 2003ish

[06:59:55]

wagnerrp:

and the backend will outright refuse

[07:00:03]

sphery:

no, wait, we switched after that...

[07:00:12]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: not with the feature set we had back then, it was extremely limited and no mythproto

[07:00:27]

kormoc:

slacktv: 0.9 will corrupt your database....

[07:00:42]

kormoc:

if you ran 0.9, that might be enough to cause 0.22 to refuse to run

[07:00:59]

slacktv:

I'm not using it just wanted to see if my DB was the problem.

[07:01:07]

** kormoc sighs **

[07:01:19]

kormoc:

if you loaded it in a web browser, that's using it

[07:01:25]

sphery:

slacktv: were you the one I mentioned doing the partial restore to?

[07:01:36]

slacktv:

nope

[07:01:52]

kormoc:

I knew removing all that pre-written history setting migration would bite me in the butt someday...

[07:03:32]

sphery:

ah, you're the one who has (had?) a working MythTV, but was having problems getting the database settings right for MythWeb

[07:04:18]

kormoc:

yeah, that's him

[07:04:42]

sphery:

might want to restore a backup from before you tested MythWeb 0.9

[07:04:45]

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[07:04:45]

slacktv:

The only way I was able to get mythweb 0.22 to atleast show the Mythtv logo was to add define ('tmpl','default') and define('skin_url','skins/default');

[07:05:00]

kormoc:

slacktv: and then what was the error?

[07:05:02]

sphery:

slacktv: right, because you have database problems

[07:05:23]

** sphery bets it's his database GRANTs **

[07:05:58]

sphery:

slacktv: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-6.html#modify_perm_mysql

[07:06:36]

kormoc:

we need to remove all the ancient tarballs off of osuosl...

[07:07:15]

slacktv:

call to a member function query_col() on a non-object in /var/www/htdocs/mythweb/module/backend_log/init.php on line 19

[07:07:22]

sphery:

slacktv: pay particular attention to the info on grants and on skip-networking

[07:07:28]

sphery:

and bind-address

[07:07:50]

kormoc:

that means the database object failed to create successfully

[07:08:06]

kormoc:

which would indicate that it couldn't connect

[07:08:13]

kormoc:

we do require mysqli support

[07:08:19]

kormoc:

(not just mysql) on the php level

[07:08:32]

kormoc:

and we don't support mysqlnd yet, if you're running php 5.3

[07:09:48]

sphery:

wonder if that's what's causing issues for some *buntu users

[07:10:01]

kormoc:

it very well might be

[07:10:07]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: oh? i dont think ive got mysqli installed

[07:10:31]

sphery:

the whole "MythWeb doesn't work after upgrade" that the maintainers (who likely wouldn't think of installing the wrong PHP parts or not installing the right ones) were unable to reproduce

[07:10:38]

slacktv:

I don't think I have mysqli installed either..

[07:11:02]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: well, we have a fallback to mysql in place, it's just not officially supported, as neither xris or I run or test it.

[07:11:22]

** sphery doesn't know what mysqli or mysqlnd are **

[07:11:26]

wagnerrp:

duly noted... installing mysqli

[07:11:40]

sphery:

native driver

[07:11:44]

wagnerrp:

mysqli is a php extension... mysqlnd, dont know

[07:11:47]

kormoc:

sphery: alternative mysql driver layers for php, with different features

[07:11:55]

sphery:

cool

[07:11:58]

sphery:

wonder if I have them

[07:12:08]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: mysqlnd is the new mysqli only improved

[07:12:27]

kormoc:

and is a great thing to have, just need to update the code to detect it and do some things differently

[07:12:49]

wagnerrp:

well its not yet available in freebsd

[07:12:59]

wagnerrp:

or maybe i just need to update my package tree

[07:13:00]

kormoc:

it's a php 5.3+ feature only

[07:13:05]

** sphery believes the only way to get users to stop using the unsupported code is to remove it **

[07:13:17]

sphery:

(spoken as a user who may be using the unsupported code)

[07:13:23]

kormoc:

hehe

[07:13:40]

wagnerrp:

(and a user who was just told he was running unsupported code)

[07:14:04]

** kormoc nelson laughs **

[07:14:22]

kormoc:

Ha ha, you're running the php mysql driver equivalent of xvmc!

[07:14:23]

sphery:

I have PHP compiled with --with-mysql... Is that plain mysql?

[07:14:32]

kormoc:

sphery: aye

[07:14:33]

sphery:

heh

[07:14:41]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: people tell me the same thing about python

[07:14:49]

sphery:

is mysqli in PHP or a separate source package

[07:14:55]

kormoc:

it's in php

[07:14:58]

kormoc:

--with-mysqli

[07:15:01]

sphery:

ahhh

[07:15:16]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: I've been coding python for work and it has some... oddnesses that drive me bonkers

[07:15:19]

sphery:

so I need --with-mysqli, too? (or instead?)

[07:15:26]

sphery:

can I do --with-mysqlnd, also?

[07:15:42]

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[07:15:45]

kormoc:

sphery: both works fine, and only use nd if you're php 5.3 or newer

[07:15:48]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: yeah, apparently the devs are trying to get everyone to switch over to some new 'oursql' library

[07:15:54]

sphery:

yeah, 5.3.1

[07:16:09]

wagnerrp:

but the distro support just isnt there yet for me to switch the bindings over to it

[07:16:24]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: well, just core language features, dictionary tables that don't dump out in the same order they were inserted into for example is crazy!

[07:16:30]

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[07:16:34]

kormoc:

sphery: sure, might as well give it a go

[07:16:59]

wagnerrp:

my mysql-esse is still too basic to notice stuff like that

[07:17:09]

sphery:

er, it's --with-mysql=[dir] pointed at a mysqlnd dir

[07:17:18]

kormoc:

ooh?

[07:17:23]

** kormoc shifty eyes **

[07:17:31]

sphery:

er, not a real dir, but --with-mysql=mysqlnd

[07:17:38]

sphery:

and --with-mysqli

[07:17:46]

kormoc:

to be fair, I only quoting things I've previously read, I haven't used 5.3+

[07:17:50]

sphery:

so both those would would, but I wouldn't have the old XvMC version

[07:17:57]

sphery:

would work

[07:18:10]

sphery:

I sound like a woodchuck... "would would"

[07:18:13]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: it's not a mysql thing, it's using {key: value} style things

[07:18:26]

kormoc:

hehe

[07:18:37]

wagnerrp:

oh... yeah

[07:18:42]

wagnerrp:

i was complaining about that earlier today

[07:19:03]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: it freaked me out when they came back out 'out of order'...

[07:19:10]

slacktv:

okay I just look at slackware build and php is compile with --with-mysqli=shared,/usr/bin/mysql_config

[07:19:24]

sphery:

So, kormoc, after I put --with-mysqli in there, MythWeb will be an order of magnitude faster, right?

[07:19:36]

kormoc:

sphery: For sure! Rev that compiler!

[07:19:40]

sphery:

nice

[07:19:53]

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[07:19:56]

kormoc:

slacktv: you could do a var_dump($db) and look for any error strings in the object

[07:20:03]

wagnerrp:

seems i cant link directly to a time in the logs

[07:20:32]

wagnerrp:

anyway... '15:18:10 wagnerrp> curse you python and your lack of ordered associative arrays'

[07:20:43]

kormoc:

yup

[07:21:19]

wagnerrp:

i ended up making my own wrapper around dictionaries in the bindings for that specific purpose

[07:21:27]

wagnerrp:

to ensure they return in the proper order

[07:21:31]

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[07:21:37]

kormoc:

ooh nice, I need to take a gander at them

[07:22:08]

sphery:

oh, great... feed a male goose to the Python

[07:22:16]

wagnerrp:

all in the dictdata stuff at the top of MythBase.py

[07:22:41]

kormoc:

sphery: heh

[07:22:53]

wagnerrp:

i re-implemented the __getitem__ and __setitem__ to emulate a dictionary

[07:23:08]

wagnerrp:

and then set up all the iterators to follow an external ordering scheme

[07:23:32]

kormoc:

snaz

[07:24:59]

kormoc:

crap, it's well beyond bed time

[07:25:02]

kormoc:

night all

[07:25:05]

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[07:25:05]

wagnerrp:

anyway

[07:25:09]

wagnerrp:

you already left...

[07:26:14]

slacktv:

did var_dump($db) and got NULL

[07:26:18]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1/2010 . . . -03-23:15:19

[07:26:34]

sphery:

or even: http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1/2010 . . . -03-23:15:18

[07:26:57]

wagnerrp:

well you just have to know that...

[07:27:08]

wagnerrp:

you cant look in the sort and see standard # tags

[07:27:13]

wagnerrp:

s/sort/source

[07:27:16]

sphery:

Yeah...

[07:27:25]

slacktv:

the $db variable is not being define.. Any Ideas?

[07:27:49]

sphery:

I learned it from Beirdo himself

[07:28:07]

** wagnerrp considers writing up a stripped down class for kormoc **

[07:29:14]

sphery:

wagnerrp: wow, even http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1/2010 . . . -23:15:18:11 works

[07:29:30]

sphery:

(for seconds, you can't use the same value for start/end...)

[07:29:46]

sphery:

for minutes you can

[07:30:43]

sphery:

if you leave off minutes and seconds, you get weirdness

[07:31:35]

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[07:31:52]

sphery:

heh, the weirdness is the next day...

[07:33:18]

justinh:

ho ho ho. tried xbmc again last night just for giggles. it works but boy, pulling the recordings down & showing them all as one big list... ugh. whoever is using that as a frontend likes to scroll

[07:33:44]

justinh:

s/likes/loves/

[07:34:00]

wagnerrp:

obviously you werent using mythicallibrarian

[07:34:04]

wagnerrp:

its the epitome of perfection

[07:34:24]

wagnerrp:

it even gives happy endings

[07:35:37]

justinh:

pardon me, but I'd rather keep a working database thankyou very much

[07:35:46]

slacktv:

without going into a lot of details can someone tell me where $db is first defined?

[07:36:00]

justinh:

in mythweb? sure. In the config file

[07:36:01]

wagnerrp:

what? it really does very little more than read from the database

[07:36:23]

wagnerrp:

you know... id be interested in seeing what the current process ID is on his system before and after a run of that thing

[07:36:27]

justinh:

wagnerrp: I thought it renamed stuff, and put symlinks back in the storage group

[07:36:32]

wagnerrp:

its got to be like +10k or so

[07:37:02]

wagnerrp:

justinh: i know, i know... his words

[07:37:05]

justinh:

the author said it's mythrename.pl on steroids.

[07:37:19]

justinh:

that alone is enough to put me off even downloading it

[07:38:09]

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[07:38:23]

justinh:

so, we took a script which can expertly & irretrievably bork your DB & we made it faster & stronger!

[07:38:31]

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[07:39:10]

justinh:

least nobody's calling it a plugin. Yet

[07:39:42]

wagnerrp:

i enjoyed when i told him that he should add version checking so that people dont run it against an incompatible database, that it was cool, because he currently supported everything from 0.21 through trunk, and he would just update it when a new version came out

[07:40:27]

justinh:

he didn't take kindly to my comments about it on the forum, but we have to warn people about stuff like this

[07:40:36]

wagnerrp:

and then he told me that Capt'Ms planned external metadata stuff is already in trunk, because he follows the commits and knows about these sorts of things

[07:41:09]

justinh:

yeah cos the project is moving to a big external metadata file. who needs a database anyway? ;-)

[07:41:30]

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[07:41:38]

wagnerrp:

well i mentioned that work as a response to the ability to recover from the filenames with his script

[07:41:51]

justinh:

wonder how mediaportal is getting on since they moved from flat files to SQL

[07:42:51]

justinh:

btw this event stuff in trunk... is that replacing or augmenting user jobs?

[07:43:01]

wagnerrp:

completely independent

[07:43:32]

wagnerrp:

the backend already sends out various events for different things

[07:43:34]

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[07:43:37]

justinh:

righto

[07:43:46]

sphery:

I heard that the database was being replaced with plain text files--and no more XML, either: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/187428#187428

[07:43:49]

wagnerrp:

like informing frontends that there has been a change in the recording list

[07:43:56]

wagnerrp:

and to update the PBB accordingly

[07:44:12]

wagnerrp:

these are just some special messages, which can trigger external commands

[07:44:32]

wagnerrp:

and they are broadcast once to each currently connected system

[07:45:09]

justinh:

but external programs/scripts could make use of them, in place of user jobs by the look of things

[07:45:11]

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[07:45:44]

wagnerrp:

while user jobs can be run independently of recordings... i dont believe anyone actually uses them for that purpose

[07:46:06]

sphery:

yeah, the user jobs have the benefit of being settable per recording rule

[07:46:15]

wagnerrp:

userjobs run on recordings, while system events run independently of them

[07:46:23]

wagnerrp:

similar but non-overlapping

[07:46:51]

wagnerrp:

now i suppose you could set up an event to run on the completion of a recording

[07:46:54]

sphery:

so the system events are perfect for use with mythlink.pl (i.e. run it on a single recording right when that recording starts)

[07:46:57]

justinh:

but say you have a user job which you'd ordinarily run on every recording – to save a job slot you could, I guess, use an event instead

[07:47:08]

sphery:

right

[07:47:13]

sphery:

like the mythlink.pl thing

[07:47:18]

wagnerrp:

but then you use up that event slot

[07:47:19]

justinh:

coolios :)

[07:47:27]

sphery:

so their complementary

[07:47:30]

sphery:

or complimentary?

[07:47:32]

justinh:

there are only yay many event slots?

[07:47:32]

wagnerrp:

unless you put in a script that runs multiple other scripts

[07:47:56]

wagnerrp:

there is one slot for each event

[07:48:08]

wagnerrp:

and i dont believe theyre global values

[07:48:16]

sphery:

I have an 1800-line bash script I use to manage which jobs are run for the recording started event

[07:48:18]

wagnerrp:

but ive not actually checked

[07:48:50]

justinh:

ah ok

[07:49:13]

sphery:

yeah, they're per-host at least

[07:49:26]

** wagnerrp so considers spending all tomorrow to crack out epiclibrarian and post it on mythtvtalk **

[07:49:59]

wagnerrp:

beating the other guy's record by ~119 days

[07:50:04]

justinh:

heh

[07:51:05]

slacktv:

well its time to sleep.. thx everyone for the help, I'll be back tomorrow to pick your brain again with mythweb-0.22

[07:51:57]

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[07:59:58]

justinh:

gonna see if I can find a fanless nvidia card with svideo output & PCIe .. and a PCIe riser

[08:00:25]

[R]:

pcie riser?

[08:00:53]

justinh:

yeah. my frontend is in a stupid case

[08:02:31]

justinh:

never EVER gonna buy a Silverstone LC02 again

[08:03:16]

justinh:

it ticks most of the boxes – no stupid ports on the front, no cheap & nasty plastic, doesn't look like ass... but it's otherwise useless

[08:03:36]

[R]:

lol

[08:04:28]

wagnerrp:

too noisy? difficult to build? requires riser card? what exactly didnt you like...

[08:04:56]

wagnerrp:

ive actually been looking at the 19 for some time

[08:05:17]

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[08:05:30]

justinh:

crap PSU, nothing in the way of airflow (the optical drive carrier covers virtually all the CPU fan area ...

[08:05:46]

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[08:06:27]

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[08:07:13]

wagnerrp:

ah... 19 seems to be a completely different design

[08:07:48]

justinh:

yup

[08:08:23]

justinh:

ooo GT220 for £44 at my local shed

[08:08:48]

wagnerrp:

its a shame i cant get a 19 with a full 5.25" bay

[08:09:02]

wagnerrp:

that case would otherwise be perfect for the motorhome

[08:09:12]

justinh:

optical drive is hella noisy in the LC02 too

[08:09:28]

justinh:

but then most are when they first spin up

[08:09:55]

justinh:

nobody seems to have bothered trying to make a quiet slimline optical drive

[08:10:17]

wagnerrp:

although it probably isnt deep enough for a full length 5.25" bay and a video card

[08:10:24]

justinh:

heh. no svideo on the GT220 of course

[08:10:42]

wagnerrp:

what do they have instead? displayport?

[08:10:57]

justinh:

HDMI

[08:11:09]

justinh:

HDMI, DVI & VGA

[08:11:32]

justinh:

still, I could always buy a GT220 & keep it for when I update my teevee

[08:11:56]

wagnerrp:

probably something better/cheaper out by then

[08:12:41]

wagnerrp:

low end fanless fermi or something

[08:12:56]

justinh:

hrmph. is there anything on PCIe with svideo? lol

[08:13:11]

justinh:

stupid blimmin low-tech telly

[08:13:23]

wagnerrp:

does not appear so in the GT line

[08:13:49]

justinh:

wouldn't expect it to, but it seems the local shed doesn't sell it

[08:14:01]

wagnerrp:

you can still get 9-series with svideo

[08:14:15]

justinh:

ugh. a 6200 for £35

[08:14:48]

wagnerrp:

a 9500 should do just about anything you want

[08:16:30]

justinh:

9500 with 1GB, £42.29 inc vat

[08:16:46]

justinh:

no idea if it's got svideo. not listed in the specs

[08:16:59]

wagnerrp:

no shot of the back side?

[08:17:51]

justinh:

no the supplied pic doesn't show the actual card. it's fanless but the picture shows a fan

[08:18:19]

justinh:

and it's one of the shop's own rebrands

[08:18:21]

wagnerrp:

mode number?

[08:18:22]

wagnerrp:

oh

[08:18:50]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i was looking for replacement UPS batteries the other day

[08:19:01]

wagnerrp:

and the different APC models actually had different images of batters

[08:19:23]

wagnerrp:

none of which looked ANYTHING like the modular SLA batteries that come in UPSs

[08:20:11]

justinh:

hahhaha max GPU temp 105'C. I think that's gonna smell of burning electronics

[08:20:25]

justinh:

hmm. fan noise or burn the house down?

[08:20:45]

justinh:

the bad news is that (get this) my wife has kyboshed the 'move the frontend outside the livingroom' idea

[08:20:55]

wagnerrp:

you think so? ive run them up to 90C+ with no issues

[08:21:04]

wagnerrp:

although the fans do seem to die prematurely

[08:21:33]

justinh:

it's not like it'd be under much load for the majority of the time

[08:23:10]

justinh:

or even on ;-)

[08:23:53]

justinh:

most days the frontend spends only about 5 hours powered up

[08:26:14]

justinh:

well, looks like I can't have my cake & eat it without some serious research & finger crossing

[08:26:48]

justinh:

it'd be a complete waste of time to wax £40 on a new card which can't do VDPAU

[08:27:46]

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[08:28:47]

wagnerrp:

if its local, cant you just stop by and look at it?

[08:29:08]

justinh:

no, they have this stupid policy. all the local indies do

[08:29:13]

justinh:

you can't look at it

[08:29:22]

wagnerrp:

WTF is with that?

[08:29:30]

justinh:

I had to buy the LC02 case without ever seeing it properly

[08:29:44]

justinh:

you buy it, find it unsuitable, you pay a restocking fee

[08:29:53]

justinh:

they're ****ing SHARKS

[08:30:02]

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[08:30:05]

wagnerrp:

the local places around here have an unboxed version of all the hardware they have, sitting on a shelf

[08:30:08]

justinh:

that's Aria, Scan, Microdirect ...

[08:30:22]

wagnerrp:

all the boards, all the cases, most of the heatsinks

[08:30:39]

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[08:30:44]

justinh:

nah these places have a showroom of sorts but it's not indicative of most stock

[08:30:59]

justinh:

they've got punters over a barrel

[08:31:18]

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[08:31:24]

justinh:

which is why, whenever I see similarly priced goodies at PCWorld, I always go to PCWorld instead of the local shed

[08:31:46]

justinh:

their return policies are actually customer friendly, few questions asked

[08:32:10]

justinh:

not "we will test this, then if we find nothing wrong charge you £15 restocking fee or 10%"

[08:34:32]

wagnerrp:

woo!

[08:34:46]

** wagnerrp has backend connection escalation working in the bindings **

[08:35:14]

justinh:

plus it's more fun going to PCWorld. You can spend hours listening to the BS they churn out to customers

[08:35:26]

wagnerrp:

all connections to a specific ip address and port are cached and reused wherever possible

[08:35:44]

wagnerrp:

and now it will scale between 'Playback', 'Monitor', and the various event levels as needed

[08:35:47]

justinh:

oh, a bigger hard drive means you can run more applications easily? I never realised that!

[08:36:11]

justinh:

wagnerrp: sounds cool :)

[08:36:11]

wagnerrp:

sure! that 1TB hard drive will let you install that 45th game

[08:36:51]

justinh:

let's try ebuyer. at least then I've got the distance selling regs on my side

[08:36:54]

wagnerrp:

it would be cleaner if i could do so without having to reconnect

[08:37:04]

wagnerrp:

but maybe thats something i can patch into mythbackend later

[08:38:05]

justinh:

ebuyer are another one. *passive* card but the photo shows a fan

[08:38:40]

wagnerrp:

you know... we really dont have any small computer stores around here

[08:38:56]

wagnerrp:

theres a couple repair shops

[08:39:22]

wagnerrp:

and then the occasional place that will sell used boxes, bargin bin stuff, and cables

[08:39:34]

wagnerrp:

but no one that sells new hardware

[08:39:37]

justinh:

the ones round here are just warehouses with a bunch of stuff in display cases out front

[08:40:03]

justinh:

usually pimped-out gaming boxes

[08:40:28]

justinh:

more flashing lights than Blackpool illuminations

[08:40:53]

wagnerrp:

i never understood the pimped out boxes, or even the pimped out cars for that matter

[08:41:37]

justinh:

very popular with the asian fraternity. Around Eid time, down the curry mile it's wall to wall pimped cars with dope smoke billowing out the windows

[08:42:28]

wagnerrp:

i can appreciate very clean work

[08:42:42]

wagnerrp:

a very clean computer install, a very clean engine swap

[08:42:52]

justinh:

yeah but not LED striplighting held up with gaffer tape ;-)

[08:42:54]

wagnerrp:

even something like a clean aftermarket stereo

[08:43:15]

justinh:

yeah I can appreciate workmanship. that doesn't mean I'd want it myself though

[08:43:36]

wagnerrp:

but yeah, when they throw on LEDs or other effect lighting, or crappy, overly active paint jobs, or more than half a dozen LCDs

[08:43:54]

wagnerrp:

and plastic air dams and panel work... i hate that

[08:43:59]

justinh:

like those cases modded on a DOOM theme or whatever.. awesome craft

[08:44:18]

justinh:

or something some guy has milled from scratch in his garage

[08:44:26]

wagnerrp:

it always beings me so much joy when i see someone crack off a bumper going up a curb

[08:44:31]

justinh:

heh

[08:44:50]

wagnerrp:

or the low rider truck bottom out and get stuck on the crest of a hill

[08:45:10]

justinh:

thankfully w*nker lights are seen as something of a bad taste item now

[08:45:55]

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[08:47:04]

wagnerrp:

i guess i just prefer an unassuming look

[08:48:18]

wagnerrp:

i mean take the original Viper compared to the current

[08:48:45]

wagnerrp:

the original was a beautiful car, streamlined, very clean

[08:48:50]

wagnerrp:

the current one looks like crap

[08:49:08]

wagnerrp:

they put all sorts of inlets and slots all over the hood and body

[08:49:15]

wagnerrp:

theres just too much going on

[08:51:59]

wagnerrp:

they do the same thing with gaming cases

[08:52:11]

wagnerrp:

angular, and faceted all over

[08:53:27]

justinh:

like the boxee box? ;-)

[08:54:21]

justinh:

or, knobelisk as I decided to call it

[08:54:58]

wagnerrp:

well for instance... take two silverstone cases

[08:55:10]

wagnerrp:

RV01 and FT02

[08:55:51]

wagnerrp:

http://silverstonetek.com/raven/products/index.php?model=RV01 and http://silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=FT02

[08:56:00]

wagnerrp:

internally, theyre almost identical

[08:56:22]

wagnerrp:

IMO, the RV01 looks like a piece of junk

[08:56:37]

wagnerrp:

but were i in the market for a new desktop case, i would buy an FT01 in a heartbeat

[08:56:40]

wagnerrp:

FT02

[08:59:32]

wagnerrp:

yeah... that boxee box is terrible

[08:59:40]

wagnerrp:

you cant stack it with other components

[08:59:53]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt take up more than a quarter the space of a normal AV shelf

[09:00:27]

wagnerrp:

you have to space your shelves pretty far vertically since its angled and so (uselessly) tall

[09:00:29]

justinh:

oo like the FT02 too

[09:00:56]

justinh:

bet that isn't cheap

[09:01:34]

wagnerrp:

google says ~$240

[09:01:42]

wagnerrp:

heh... bit more than i expected

[09:02:47]

wagnerrp:

so maybe it wouldnt be 'in a heartbeat'.... thats twice the price of my current P182

[09:03:12]

sid3windr:

url to boxee box? :>

[09:03:27]

sid3windr:

ok, google got it ;)

[09:03:36]

sid3windr:

wow, wut

[09:03:36]

sid3windr:

:|

[09:03:43]

wagnerrp:

http://images.google.com/images?q=boxee%20box

[09:05:10]

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[09:09:17]

justinh:

FT02 is £178.56 at Scan

[09:09:29]

justinh:

that's more than my new backend cost

[09:09:57]

justinh:

mind you, I did get the 2 1TB HDDs for 'free'

[09:11:41]

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[10:11:13]

k-man:

my old mythtv setup which was .21 died (the mb failed) i have installed .22 on a new machine, is there some way to import the recordings from my old hdd?

[10:11:55]

justinh:

no

[10:11:58]

justinh:

bad news

[10:12:33]

justinh:

there's not much anybody can do with a bunch of files on their own

[10:12:58]

justinh:

but if you still have the old database you could probably rescue all the metadata & the recording files will make some sense ;-)

[10:14:50]

k-man:

justinh: yes, i have the old db.... well, i have my old install preserved on the hdds, just the mb is gone so i can't boot it

[10:15:15]

k-man:

i suppose i could boot it somehow and export the db

[10:15:21]

k-man:

haven't really tried yet

[10:15:32]

hashbang:

k-man: you probably can boot it, or you could just mount the old filesystems under your new system

[10:15:37]

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[10:16:20]

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[10:16:37]

hashbang:

k-man: Linux is not like Windows; the boot process isn't usually tightly tied to the hardware

[10:16:56]

k-man:

hashbang: yeah, booting it is better so i can just export the db, mounting it and trying to export the db might be harder

[10:18:33]

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[10:19:46]

** hashbang retunes yet again **

[10:19:54]

hashbang:

pesky switchover

[10:22:04]

justinh:

yeah but just think of all the HD you won't be able to tune!

[10:22:17]

justinh:

and the reduced quality of all the other channels!

[10:22:39]

hashbang:

justinh: you sound cynical this morning.

[10:22:43]

justinh:

oh and the inability to scan!

[10:23:02]

justinh:

I dunno if the scanning fix for 8k transports was backported

[10:23:19]

justinh:

hashbang: not cynical, just factual

[10:23:40]

justinh:

you can't tune dvb-t2, and the bitrate of many channels was reduced so they could squeeze more into only 5 muxes

[10:30:12]

justinh:

hashbang: so when the switchover actually happens make sure you're running a version of myth with the 8k scanning fix

[10:30:32]

hashbang:

justinh: argh.

[10:30:40]

hashbang:

justinh: I'm still on 0.21

[10:31:05]

justinh:

it's an easy fix if you can compile it yourself

[10:31:21]

hashbang:

fixes 19114 as of Nov 2008, apparently

[10:32:33]

hashbang:

justinh: any idea when the fix went in?

[10:33:47]

justinh:

less than 4 months ago

[10:34:25]

hashbang:

okies, ta for the heads-up

[10:34:32]

justinh:

line 261 of libs/libmythtv/frequencytables.cpp to DTVTransmitMode::kTransmissionMode8K, from DTVTransmitMode::kTransmissionMode2K,

[10:34:38]

hashbang:

I was thinking of rebasing on something newer anyway

[10:35:07]

justinh:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7688#comment:5

[10:35:26]

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[10:35:41]

justinh:

I'm surprised more people weren't burned by it

[10:36:05]

justinh:

maybe there aren't that many mythtv users covered by Winter Hill

[10:37:48]

gbee:

huh, that should have been backported

[10:38:07]

justinh:

maybe it was backported to 0.22

[10:38:17]

justinh:

it'd never have been backported to 0.21 :-)

[10:39:51]

gbee:

it wasn't event backported to 0.22

[10:40:03]

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[10:40:10]

hashbang:

FYI, Mendip currently has 7 mplexes, one on 7.78166MHz unused

[10:40:32]

hashbang:

gbee: ouch!

[10:40:33]

justinh:

7?!

[10:40:40]

hashbang:

justinh: yup

[10:40:48]

justinh:

wth do you get with 7 muxes?

[10:41:07]

hashbang:

8.02, 8.26, 7.54, 8.42, 7.94, 7.78, 7.46

[10:41:36]

justinh:

you'll still prolly be cut down to 5

[10:41:45]

hashbang:

I guess 7.78 is the old BBC mux now that that mux has been moved to the analogue BBC2 freq

[10:42:01]

justinh:

IIRC they did that here too

[10:42:06]

hashbang:

I've gotta retune again in two weeks, apparently

[10:42:17]

justinh:

yeah that'll be when they take analogue off altogether

[10:42:22]

** hashbang nods **

[10:42:29]

justinh:

it's all a reet haeomoroid

[10:42:37]

hashbang:

you can say that again.

[10:43:05]

justinh:

but after this.. we'll probably never have to retune more than once in a blue moon

[10:44:39]

hashbang:

think I might switch from Fedora 8+0.21 to CentOS 5+0.23 from ATrpms

[10:44:57]

justinh:

that might be a baaad idea

[10:45:03]

hashbang:

justinh: which part?

[10:45:24]

justinh:

if they have new enough qt, etc etc etc

[10:45:40]

justinh:

any less than qt4.4, no mythtv

[10:45:46]

justinh:

any less than qt4.5, no mythbrowser

[10:48:45]

hashbang:

maybe Fedora Rawhide :-)

[10:48:47]

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[10:49:44]

hashbang:

arse

[10:50:17]

hashbang:

why can't the final switchover be /after/ the Easter break?!? ;-)

[10:50:51]

justinh:

because people have nothing better to do than hit the rescan button

[10:51:01]

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[10:51:04]

justinh:

or go out & buy new gear

[10:52:41]

hashbang:

justinh: must be

[10:53:53]

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[10:55:33]

justinh:

heh it's cheaper to buy an external portable HDD in 500GB size at pcworld than it is to buy a component

[10:55:42]

hashbang:

hmm, two BBC FOURs

[10:56:10]

hashbang:

justinh: the externals will only have 1 year warranty and will probably be slower/less cache, though

[10:56:29]

justinh:

like that really matters

[10:56:40]

hashbang:

depends on the circumstances. :-)

[10:57:07]

hashbang:

I usually find the difference between the bottom end model and the top for a given size+manufacturer is less than £10

[10:57:27]

justinh:

not on 2.5" sata HDDs

[10:57:41]

justinh:

most are only 5400RPM anyway

[10:57:42]

hashbang:

justinh: fair nuff, haven't done that comparison

[10:57:57]

hashbang:

justinh: and you probably don't want to be running 7.2/10k in a laptop anyway

[10:58:03]

justinh:

:-)

[10:58:10]

justinh:

damn right

[10:58:27]

hashbang:

the performance will be nice... until the drive melts its way out of the case

[10:58:37]

justinh:

in an ideal world I'd just plump for 1TB of SSD

[10:58:48]

justinh:

but since I don't have 250 grand in my back burner..

[10:59:35]

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[11:27:49]

hashbang:

justinh: as far as I can see, I now have duplicates of BBC FOUR, Parliament and CBeebies on two mplexes

[11:28:09]

justinh:

yeah that's what I got

[11:28:13]

hashbang:

justinh: I think /both/ are live, but not being in front of my MythTV box I can't tell for certain

[11:30:48]

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[11:31:30]

justinh:

there's a site I can never remember the url for which tells you

[11:38:05]

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[12:10:54]

Beirdo:

morn

[12:16:20]

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[12:29:18]

ThisOtherGuy:

Good morning

[12:29:34]

Beirdo:

dunno about good yet.. but it's morning :)

[12:30:03]

ThisOtherGuy:

I feel you there – my kid was up screaming all night :-(

[12:30:30]

Beirdo:

ick

[12:30:41]

Beirdo:

here, have a pot of coffee

[12:31:06]

** ThisOtherGuy doesn't drink coffee because he prefers anguish **

[12:31:28]

Beirdo:

hehe crazy

[12:31:42]

ThisOtherGuy:

:-)

[12:31:44]

Johnnyjboss:

Well I suppose you can develop a taste for anything

[12:31:46]

Beirdo:

anyways, I should head to the job I just gave notice at :)

[12:32:24]

ThisOtherGuy:

Johnnyjboss: :-D

[12:32:31]

Beirdo:

see what baloney they have in store for my last two weeks :)

[12:32:42]

ThisOtherGuy:

Beirdo: That's the best 2 weeks

[12:33:00]

Johnnyjboss:

Greener pastures?

[12:33:09]

Beirdo:

yup

[12:33:19]

Beirdo:

Seattle, here I come :)

[12:33:28]

justinh:

the grass is always greener on the other side

[12:33:44]

Johnnyjboss:

Wow – I'm hearing slot of that (Seattle)

[12:34:03]

justinh:

and lucky me, I have lots of being kept awake by screaming to look forward to

[12:34:07]

Beirdo:

It's a nice city... and has tech jobs :)

[12:34:24]

justinh:

I should really stop watching 'one born every minute' too. it's putting the fear of God into me

[12:34:32]

Beirdo:

haha

[12:34:46]

Beirdo:

seeya in a bit

[12:35:00]

Johnnyjboss:

It is indeed pretty there – and I love rain

[12:35:00]

justinh:

most situations in life we manage to get ourselves into can easily be got out of. not this

[12:35:20]

justinh:

Beirdo: have er.. fun ;)

[12:36:15]

justinh:

ugh. the oft are to examine the BBC's Canvas project

[12:36:19]

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[12:37:15]

Johnnyjboss:

Beirdo: congrats – good luck with the move

[12:38:27]

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[12:50:57]

decke:

looks like the trac ticket system is down... any plan when this will be working again? yesterday also was no good day to post some patches

[12:51:17]

justinh:

criticism is no longer accepted. mythtv is perfect as it is

[12:51:38]

justinh:

seriously though, I doubt anybody would want trac to be broken for long

[12:52:07]

decke:

that is why i thought i just wait a day... but it got more broken as it seems

[12:52:24]

justinh:

1st I've heard about it

[12:52:33]

decke:

and i really don't want to have the freebsd compile patches laying around any longer

[12:52:46]

decke:

give it a try: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/newticket

[12:52:52]

decke:

i get "OperationalError: database is locked"

[12:53:18]

decke:

yesterday it was when actually creating the ticket some kind of "internal error with no additional data"

[12:53:23]

justinh:

this must be the 1st time I've ever had to suggest asking in the other channel ;)

[12:53:39]

justinh:

somebody in #mythtv might know

[12:54:24]

decke:

okay i'm fine with it... just did not want to upset anyone

[12:56:08]

gbee:

decke: working just fine here

[12:56:36]

decke:

ah already back...

[12:56:47]

decke:

trying again to submit one

[13:04:39]

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[13:10:16]

ivor:

justinh: re project canvas. more protests from sky i guess.

[13:10:26]

justinh:

Sky & VM

[13:14:04]

gbee:

pathetic

[13:14:18]

ivor:

predictable though.

[13:14:34]

ivor:

justinh: did you see the bbc-o-gram in the guardian?

[13:14:37]

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[13:14:38]

gbee:

I'm surprised at VM, but Sky's spoilt child antics aren't remarkable

[13:15:15]

gbee:

they can't be happy at the news this morning, 400,000 customers lost to Freesat

[13:15:45]

squidly is now known as vd|dev_null

[13:16:02]

mag0o:

the new event system sounds pretty cool

[13:16:20]

gbee:

I wish someone would step up and put sky back in their place

[13:16:35]

gbee:

mag0o: yeah, should make a lot of people happy

[13:16:46]

gbee:

especially X11 users

[13:17:01]

mag0o:

yeah

[13:17:13]

mag0o:

now, i have to upgrade my house to take full advantage of it :)

[13:17:38]

mag0o:

was actually thinking more simple, like a discreet power on for upcoming recordings, or something simple to start with

[13:17:38]

** Beirdo pokes trac with a stick... gonna behave today? :) **

[13:18:30]

gbee:

at least until the inevitable lawsuit, "MythTV crashed and left my house in darkness, I tripped over the dog and broke my arm!"

[13:18:43]

mag0o:

haha

[13:19:15]

Beirdo:

"stupid dog"

[13:21:10]

justinh:

MythMrHouse (tm)

[13:24:06]

vd|dev_null is now known as squidly

[13:25:16]

gbee:

the particular beauty of the new event system is the open design which makes it endlessly extensible and the fact that it works across all the frontends and backends, you don't need scripts on every frontend, just put one on the backend and switch behaviour based on hostname

[13:25:49]

gbee:

I'll have to think up a different name though, otherwise people are going to be confusing it with the internal events

[13:28:09]

justinh:

notification handler?

[13:28:21]

gbee:

if we were a commercial company we'd have trademarked something and it would be all over the website, MythTV now with StorageGroup®, EventTrigger!® and MythUI® technology

[13:28:50]

justinh:

company I work for mostly uses 2 letters. V and U

[13:30:10]

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[13:39:16]

ivor:

for everything? doesn't that make email hard? :P

[13:39:47]

justinh:

silly. they call products ***Vu, ****Vu, etc

[13:40:10]

justinh:

ironically 'CamVu2000' is actually a camera, not something for viewing a camera

[13:40:49]

justinh:

makes leaving cards interesting though, since you can easily use the 'V' part of the logo in the word 'leaving'

[13:40:57]

justinh:

hilarious

[13:41:00]

ivor:

"2000" :) rolls eyes.

[13:41:40]

justinh:

I lost track with product names a long time ago

[13:42:09]

justinh:

they're all based on about 3 different board sets, but we have a large number of products

[13:43:07]

justinh:

some of the stuff in the range, named 'X' even has variants which use completely different architecture

[13:43:19]

justinh:

it's completely mad :)

[13:49:59]

** justinh smashes his mobile phone into bits on the desk. sick of getting textx today. TAKE THAT **

[13:50:31]

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[13:53:09]

Beirdo:

!salmon iamlindoro

[13:53:09]

** MythLogBot plants a salmon upside the head of iamlindoro on behalf of Beirdo... **

[13:54:14]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v MythLogBot

[13:55:16]

Beirdo:

bah :)

[13:55:22]

Beirdo:

no trout for the moment

[13:56:24]

Beirdo:

now to go recount the characters... I really need to rewrite that plugin :)

[14:02:00]

Beirdo:

OK

[14:02:10]

Beirdo:

!salmon iamlindoro

[14:02:10]

** MythLogBot plants a salmon upside the head of iamlindoro on behalf of Beirdo... **

[14:02:15]

Beirdo:

yay

[14:02:27]

Beirdo:

yeah, I counted wrong and buffer overflowed

[14:02:45]

iamlindoro:

I liked it better where any attempt to abuse me killed him

[14:02:51]

Beirdo:

hehe

[14:02:57]

Beirdo:

!help salmon

[14:03:02]

Beirdo:

hehe

[14:03:32]

Beirdo:

that plugin needs a rewrite though :)

[14:03:35]

gbee:

!salmon MythLogBot stop_hitting_yourself

[14:03:35]

** MythLogBot swings a stop_hitting_yourself salmon at the head of MythLogBot on behalf of gbee... **

[14:03:51]

Beirdo:

hehe

[14:04:06]

Beirdo:

the adjectives at the end can be multiple words

[14:04:18]

gbee:

ah cool

[14:04:22]

justinh:

arghhh I need a new PC

[14:04:29]

Beirdo:

the nick always one (as that's how IRC works anyways, AFAIK)

[14:04:55]

justinh:

have to open a database in office 2003 format, but can't get office 2003 til my OS is updated beyond windows 2k

[14:05:29]

justinh:

and anyway the IT dept don't have any spare licenses even accounting for all the people we got rid of last year. Meh

[14:06:02]

gbee:

*cough* openoffice

[14:06:11]

Beirdo:

in other words, the IT people all have new Windows/Office at home

[14:06:37]

justinh:

IT PERSON

[14:06:43]

Beirdo:

oh

[14:06:47]

justinh:

one guy in a firm of over 100 people

[14:07:01]

Beirdo:

wanna borrow a trout or a salmon for a moment? :)

[14:07:02]

justinh:

with multiple sites, all over the world

[14:07:12]

justinh:

can I freeze it first?

[14:07:21]

Beirdo:

hehe, nice.

[14:07:26]

Beirdo:

sure why not.

[14:07:39]

Beirdo:

thud!

[14:07:54]

justinh:

gbee: I'd download OO but for the IT guy coming down & yelling at me for grabbing more than a megabyte

[14:08:17]

Beirdo:

and slowing down his precious porn torrents?

[14:08:45]

justinh:

the CEO is keeping an eye on that stuff too

[14:09:05]

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[14:09:11]

gbee:

!salmon ITGuy frozen

[14:09:11]

** MythLogBot swings a frozen salmon at the head of ITGuy on behalf of gbee... **

[14:09:22]

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[14:10:26]

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[14:10:33]

Beirdo:

clunk!

[14:10:43]

Beirdo:

hehe

[14:10:47]

Beirdo:

and of course...

[14:10:50]

Beirdo:

!salmon

[14:10:50]

** MythLogBot throws several salmon at Beirdo. SPLAT! **

[14:10:59]

justinh:

what are those white things on the floor?

[14:11:10]

justinh:

oh, he says picking one up.. they're teeth :D

[14:11:57]

justinh:

screw it. downloading OO

[14:12:25]

Beirdo:

anyways, I'll rewrite it sometime when I'm bored again... probably later today

[14:12:29]

Beirdo:

hehe

[14:12:46]

Beirdo:

me and my stupid miscounts :)

[14:13:27]

Beirdo:

gonna make it store the messages in a table, and use the strlen of the message directly

[14:14:39]

justinh:

hmm. over 90MB & so far no gestapo

[14:14:49]

Beirdo:

heh

[14:18:22]

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[14:39:04]

justinh:

whee go OO go. Crash!

[14:39:41]

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[14:40:05]

Beirdo:

hehe

[14:40:47]

Beirdo:

!trout

[14:40:47]

** MythLogBot dumps a bucket of trout onto Beirdo **

[14:40:53]

Beirdo:

!salmon

[14:40:53]

** MythLogBot throws several salmon at Beirdo. SPLAT! **

[14:41:03]

Beirdo:

I got bored and reimplemented it :)

[14:41:06]

Beirdo:

screw work :)

[14:41:15]

Beirdo:

what can they do? fire me?

[14:41:31]

ThisOtherGuy:

yeah – it's like there's a log of you saying that

[14:41:34]

ThisOtherGuy:

er not

[14:41:37]

justinh:

I was on a customer site yesterday, modifying units to correct a designer error

[14:41:43]

Beirdo:

yeah, I already resigned

[14:41:51]

ThisOtherGuy:

oh yeah – that too

[14:41:54]

justinh:

25 units, with 14 screws each

[14:42:13]

Beirdo:

did you have to use a manual screwdriver?

[14:42:20]

justinh:

dismantle, remove PCB, fit 2 0402 size parts, fit PCB back inside, screw back together

[14:42:23]

justinh:

yes

[14:42:34]

Beirdo:

ugh

[14:42:45]

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[14:42:49]

justinh:

350 screws out, 350 screws in

[14:42:54]

ThisOtherGuy:

justinh: how long did that take?

[14:43:03]

gbee:

justinh: and one left over?

[14:43:17]

justinh:

ThisOtherGuy: 6 hours or so

[14:43:25]

justinh:

plus 2 hours drive each way

[14:43:34]

ThisOtherGuy:

ouch

[14:43:52]

Beirdo:

well, there's an annoying work day to be sure

[14:44:16]

justinh:

the best part was that it all took place in something like a foundry

[14:44:27]

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[14:44:32]

justinh:

heavy metalwork being done at the other end of the building, plasma cutting etc

[14:44:57]

Beirdo:

nice

[14:45:13]

Beirdo:

get any metal splatters on the boards?

[14:45:19]

** ThisOtherGuy does Arnold impression: "Liquid metal?" **

[14:49:47]

justinh:

nah it was all far enough away but the noise was off-putting

[14:50:31]

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[14:50:53]

justinh:

they were making these: http://www.jcb.com/PressCentre/NewsItem.aspx?ID=766

[14:51:36]

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[14:51:42]

Beirdo:

cool

[14:51:46]

Beirdo:

robo-spy :)

[14:51:48]

** justinh kills OO **

[14:52:09]

justinh:

heh the tower has wheels but it doesn't move itself

[14:52:58]

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[14:54:27]

pjcrux:

hello all, quick question reinstalled MythTV 0.22 last night and I cannot get it to record anything (other than static) above a certain channel on analog cable. Channels 2–14 record great anything channel 15 and above will record only static. Any thoughts?

[14:55:07]

justinh:

wrong frequency table used

[14:55:07]

Beirdo:

antenna vs cable tuning?

[14:55:08]

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[14:55:21]

pjcrux:

how do I change it?

[14:55:27]

justinh:

mythtv-setup

[14:55:28]

Beirdo:

in the setup

[14:55:32]

justinh:

where you set it originally

[14:55:43]

Beirdo:

hehe. it's like stereo in here

[14:55:53]

justinh:

twice the trout

[14:56:22]

Beirdo:

OMG, it's 11am almost, and I'm falling asleep?!

[14:56:28]

Beirdo:

BRB, gotta make coffee

[14:56:49]

pjcrux:

justinh: granted it's in setup. It's in the default

[14:57:19]

pjcrux:

I live in Texas and I just left it to the default (it had worked well in the past)

[14:57:22]

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[15:00:27]

Beirdo:

the "I live in Texas" part has no bearing on the setup, I don't think :)

[15:00:46]

Beirdo:

unless being Texan means you can forego proper setup

[15:01:02]

sid3windr:

y'all have sensible defaults now, y'hear!

[15:01:08]

pjcrux:

my statement was meant to convey that the analog cable settings on NTSC with default had worked well in the past

[15:01:27]

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[15:01:36]

justinh:

that settings hasn't changed

[15:01:52]

justinh:

the default for that is the same now as it always has been

[15:02:01]

Beirdo:

pjcrux: ahh, well, it could be your cable company is not sending in analog anymore

[15:02:02]

pjcrux:

I'm often asked where I live so that whoever has the ability to help knows that they're not giving me advice for Europe

[15:02:08]

justinh:

just say you don't remember ever changing it :-)

[15:02:22]

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[15:02:22]

Beirdo:

NTSC analog cable. gotcha

[15:02:39]

Beirdo:

well, it may actually be NTSC, but no longer completely analog

[15:02:47]

justinh:

I can't even remember which part of mythtv-setup that's in. maybe 'video sources'

[15:02:50]

pjcrux:

great...

[15:02:51]

Beirdo:

and thus the digital channels don't work

[15:03:01]

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[15:03:12]

Beirdo:

that's my guess... your cable company giving out digital boxes now?

[15:03:49]

pjcrux:

yeah they have been for awhile but with the analog cable it's never needed a digital converter. All of my old non-digital TV's work fine

[15:04:15]

pjcrux:

just not mythtv

[15:04:41]

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[15:13:19]

justinh:

16 and a half minutes left

[15:15:32]

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[15:16:25]

Beirdo:

sorry, work call

[15:17:57]

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[15:19:13]

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[15:25:40]

iamlindoro:

"I'm on trunk and still have the same problem if I am running my slave backend. I've pretty much given up on getting any response from the developers and I can't troubleshoot it myself."

[15:25:49]

iamlindoro:

^^^ Example of why I'm no longer on the users list...

[15:26:03]

Beirdo:

jeez

[15:26:16]

iamlindoro:

I wonder if it's petty that when I see something like that, I'm inclined to make their prediction true?

[15:26:34]

justinh:

MUH! MUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH <stamps foot loudly> MUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[15:27:02]

justinh:

ask where he lives so you can send some Ritalin

[15:27:16]

iamlindoro:

Especially as the only condition in which I am aware that can still happen is when someone uses a non-official frontend

[15:27:29]

iamlindoro:

ie certain python-hackjob "frontends"

[15:27:37]

justinh:

are you protocol #1?

[15:27:40]

justinh:

are you protocol #2?

[15:27:46]

justinh:

(etc) :D

[15:27:57]

iamlindoro:

heh

[15:28:05]

Beirdo:

sure it's not a monster bash script? :)

[15:28:27]

justinh:

frankly if I had to resort to such measures I'd count down instead

[15:28:38]

jarle:

I keep getting channels that "are in conflict" when scanning for channels in mythtv, I'm not sure if the right thing is to ignore them, or just add them anyway? This is dvb-s on Thor 0.8w

[15:28:43]

justinh:

less ways to go from protocol #8

[15:29:12]

iamlindoro:

justinh: It's a *little* better than outright trying every one, it says proto 8, then reads the response, which gives them the "right" answer

[15:29:19]

justinh:

ah

[15:29:24]

iamlindoro:

FWIW sphery and I think we should stop giving the right answer back :)

[15:29:45]

iamlindoro:

and throttle attempts from the same IP after a failed attempt

[15:29:46]

justinh:

make it a hash of the date & version number or something similarly evil

[15:30:15]

justinh:

ding dong. 3 and a half bells. time to scoot!

[15:30:22]

Beirdo:

use some MD5 digest for authentication

[15:30:29]

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[15:30:52]

Beirdo:

of course, with it all being open source, they CAN get around that eventually too

[15:31:32]

iamlindoro:

They are welcome to get around it, it would just be nice to enforce protocol correctness a little more stringently (and penalize shortcuts)

[15:31:40]

Beirdo:

yeah

[15:31:58]

Beirdo:

and... if they get around an MD5-digest... they are breaking the DMCA, no?

[15:32:02]

iamlindoro:

ie if they want to operate with a given version of myth, they should have to at least bump their revision, that way someone has to take responsibility for it :)

[15:32:37]

iamlindoro:

ie svn ci -m "bump revision to Myth proto 57, now I'm the a-hole who gets to handle the bug reports instead of the myth devs ;)"

[15:33:11]

Beirdo:

hehe

[15:33:23]

iamlindoro:

I mean, I think theoretically we *want* people to be able to implement to protocol, would just prefer it wasn't done in such an irresponsible way

[15:33:34]

Beirdo:

I think an API key-like mechanism may be good though

[15:33:48]

Beirdo:

similar to what SD must be using.

[15:33:57]

Beirdo:

have an approved frontend list

[15:34:00]

Beirdo:

:)

[15:34:03]

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[15:34:11]

Beirdo:

if you ain't on it, yer using uPNP only

[15:34:32]

iamlindoro:

If Captain_Murdoch's big changes to the DB structure/programinfo go in for .24, that should effectively break any cheating protocol implementations

[15:34:41]

Beirdo:

and to be on it, you need to actually FOLLOW the protocols

[15:34:49]

Beirdo:

true :)

[15:34:52]

sid3windr:

or remain backwards compatible with earlier versions in the backend :>

[15:35:05]

Beirdo:

sid3windr: put down the bong :)

[15:35:16]

sid3windr:

it's not like it's hard

[15:35:33]

sid3windr:

it's just berry berry messy

[15:35:34]

iamlindoro:

sounds great, which ticket contains the patches?

[15:35:38]

Beirdo:

ok then, take another hit first

[15:35:44]

Beirdo:

then put down the bong :)

[15:35:47]

sid3windr:

:>

[15:36:07]

sid3windr:

iamlindoro: patch should obviously be cooked up by the person bumping the protocol version number ;)

[15:36:31]

iamlindoro:

Oh, so it's the classic user "It's easy, so do it for me"

[15:36:32]

** sid3windr cues queen – doesn't really maaaaaatterrr.. to meeeeeeee... tooo-ooooo meeeeeeee... **

[15:36:49]

iamlindoro:

There's a word for people like that, but we don't allow it in this channel any more

[15:36:54]

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[15:37:04]

Beirdo:

we are somewhat backwards compatible... we auto-upgrade the DB

[15:37:21]

iamlindoro:

You can have any database revision you like, so long as it's the current one

[15:37:25]

sid3windr:

:>

[15:37:25]

sid3windr:

that's va very special definition of backwards compatible, beirdo :p

[15:37:28]

Beirdo:

yup ;)

[15:39:39]

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[15:48:59]

squish102:

just a question, do people still keep recordings as mpeg2? each hd recording of an hour can take up 3 gig or more, and i would love to strip commercials and encode to h.264 to save space. I typically record complete series and then decide later if I am going to watch.

[15:50:01]

iamlindoro:

If your hourlong HD recordings are only 3 GB, your cable company blows :)

[15:50:11]

iamlindoro:

6–8 would be a nice bitrate :)

[15:50:18]

squish102:

oh, maybe they bigger :)

[15:50:27]

squish102:

i know it takes a lot of space

[15:50:40]

iamlindoro:

anyway, disk is cheap, and yes, I leave my archived recordings as MPEG-2 because I'd rather buy a drive once a year than take the quality hit

[15:51:09]

squish102:

is there that much of a quality hit?

[15:51:27]

iamlindoro:

any lossy transcode is a quality hit

[15:52:34]

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[15:53:45]

squish102:

atm my backend has 2tb, but i would probably like to record more (now that I have an hdhomerun) and would hate to have to run a huge array for recordings.

[15:54:18]

squish102:

but i guess it is easier to leave them as mpeg-2

[15:56:17]

** Beirdo burps... mmmm coffee belch **

[15:57:49]

gbee:

I currently have 2TB, but I think I'd be hard pushed to run out of space considering I delete almost everything after I've watched it, if you are falling so far behind in your viewing then consider whether you are ever going to catch up again – there will always be new series so it's not a finite resource

[15:59:54]

Beirdo:

when I rebuild (in Seattle :) ) my plan is about 3TB in RAID5 to start

[16:00:09]

Beirdo:

unless I can think up something better

[16:00:45]

Beirdo:

since I already have the RAID card

[16:02:15]

squish102:

gbee, true, sometimes i go back a whole series to what is currently screened. maybe i should just use netflix for that

[16:02:23]

gbee:

I'm not a hoarder, I don't really understand those that are, I keep a selection of films around and a couple of really classic series that I know won't be repeated any time soon, but beyond that I watch once and discard

[16:02:52]

Beirdo:

for movies, I'll record off TV and likely make a DVD for later

[16:02:59]

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[16:03:00]

Beirdo:

but shows... I collect Good Eats

[16:03:05]

Beirdo:

and other than that... meh

[16:03:07]

squish102:

mine are all watched once, but i also never watch a series one show a week

[16:03:31]

Beirdo:

I used to collect Trading Spaces

[16:03:35]

Beirdo:

but I got bored of it

[16:03:42]

gbee:

Beirdo: Good Eats == recipes? Because I can understand that, you can't expect to remember them by heart

[16:03:59]

Beirdo:

yeah, it's a good cooking show, more science-based than most

[16:04:08]

Beirdo:

by Alton Brown (who I think is pretty cool)

[16:04:45]

Beirdo:

but yeah, I'm not gonna collect Simpsons or something

[16:04:46]

Beirdo:

bah

[16:05:02]

Beirdo:

I'll record/watch/delete those

[16:05:11]

Beirdo:

sometimes just record/delete

[16:05:37]

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[16:05:51]

Beirdo:

right now I think I have 400G for my recordings (from before)

[16:05:55]

Beirdo:

not nearly enough

[16:06:07]

squish102:

most of mine is record/delete ;) but only after the series is complete, watch first one, delete rest

[16:06:45]

** Beirdo squishes squish102 **

[16:06:54]

Beirdo:

you keep reminding me of my BBS days :)

[16:06:55]

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[16:07:10]

squish102:

how so?

[16:07:12]

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[16:07:15]

Saviq:

hi all, trying to set up myth 0.23 with Pulseaudio and SPDIF for AC3/DTS but Myth seems to ignore the setting in 'Digital output device' and always runs through Pulse :/

[16:07:16]

squish102:

that is a looong way back

[16:07:25]

Beirdo:

Maximus BBS' message system was squish

[16:07:41]

squish102:

ahhh

[16:07:43]

Beirdo:

wonder what S. Dudley is up to these days

[16:08:00]

Beirdo:

author of Maximus/Squish... and a classmate in university

[16:08:08]

sid3windr:

proboard>maximus

[16:08:18]

Beirdo:

bleh

[16:08:36]

sid3windr:

:D

[16:09:26]

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[16:09:33]

Beirdo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximus_(BBS)

[16:09:49]

Beirdo:

keep in mind... he entered university in 1992

[16:09:53]

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[16:10:04]

Beirdo:

he wrote this (the beginnings) in high school

[16:10:55]

Beirdo:

and I bugged him for years to open-source it

[16:11:03]

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[16:11:09]

Beirdo:

he finally did in 2002. 5 years after I stopped bugging him :)

[16:11:37]

squish102:

and probably 5 years too late :)

[16:11:46]

Beirdo:

yeah, well.

[16:11:50]

Beirdo:

I still toy with the idea

[16:11:56]

Beirdo:

but meh

[16:11:59]

jamesd2:

wasn't the bbs dead by 1992? i think i was on the internet by that point...

[16:11:59]

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[16:12:06]

Beirdo:

nah

[16:12:15]

Beirdo:

internet didn't boom until 1994 or so

[16:12:31]

Beirdo:

heya, xris

[16:12:35]

Beirdo:

check it out...

[16:12:44]

Beirdo:

!salmon kormoc

[16:13:44]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v MythLogBot

[16:13:59]

Beirdo:

let's just disable that plugin again, shall we?

[16:15:16]

squish102:

after reading that wiki page... brings back all the days of 2400 baud modem and the fun of bbs days

[16:15:57]

Beirdo:

yeah

[16:16:07]

Beirdo:

Maximus was by far my fave to run

[16:16:24]

Beirdo:

and then I became good friends with the author, that didn't hurt either :)

[16:16:35]

squish102:

haha

[16:17:00]

Beirdo:

after graduation, he went to Silicon Valley, and I haven't seen him since

[16:20:41]

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[16:20:49]

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[16:20:50]

Beirdo:

I need a development server working again :)

[16:23:21]

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[16:25:10]

Beirdo:

ok, one more time. if it doesn't work now, it waits for tonight

[16:25:16]

Beirdo:

!salmon kormoc

[16:25:56]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v MythLogBot

[16:26:01]

Beirdo:

I'm sure it's something simple :)

[16:28:31]

Beirdo:

oh CRAP

[16:28:34]

Beirdo:

missed a ,

[16:28:35]

Beirdo:

:)

[16:28:56]

Beirdo:

so the LAST string... the ONE I was trying to use... was NULL

[16:30:31]

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[16:30:43]

Beirdo:

!salmon kormoc

[16:30:43]

** MythLogBot plants a salmon upside the head of kormoc on behalf of Beirdo... **

[16:30:47]

Beirdo:

there it goes

[16:30:49]

Beirdo:

heh

[16:31:35]

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[16:32:31]

Beirdo:

stupid coder. :)

[16:33:46]

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[16:35:39]

PsychoI3oy:

nuvexport is still part of mythtv, right?

[16:36:01]

Beirdo:

kinda

[16:36:16]

Beirdo:

not in the main part of myth, but strongly related

[16:36:18]

Beirdo:

why?

[16:36:23]

PsychoI3oy:

oh

[16:36:49]

PsychoI3oy:

I did a fresh re-install of my mythbox over the weekend and was wondering where nuvexport went

[16:37:04]

Beirdo:

ask your distro's packagers :)

[16:37:13]

PsychoI3oy:

it's not in portage seperately anymore, I thought it was part of the mythtv package

[16:37:31]

PsychoI3oy:

yeah, i poked around the gentoo forums and didn't see anything obvious

[16:37:34]

Beirdo:

well, have a trout, go teach them to package it :)

[16:38:08]

Beirdo:

anyways, you can grab it from SVN

[16:38:13]

PsychoI3oy:

yeah

[16:38:28]

PsychoI3oy:

there's probably an overlay for it in portage

[16:38:45]

PsychoI3oy:

blerg, my desktop's nuvexport won't connect, either

[16:38:51]

Beirdo:

portages are for canoe trips

[16:39:06]

PsychoI3oy:

duly noted

[16:39:08]

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[16:39:46]

Beirdo:

You'd have to chat with a fellow gentooer who has it working, I'd think

[16:39:49]

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[16:40:00]

Beirdo:

basically, it will need the perl bindings in mythtv

[16:40:23]

PsychoI3oy:

it worked before the reinstall, I think I just need to remember how I had the mythconverg db setup to let it in

[16:40:27]

Beirdo:

and for it to work RIGHT, it will need current perl bindings as I fixed some misc issues with it in the past few weeks

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[16:58:48]

iamlindoro:

What is up with the planning going on for statistics gathering with no dev input?

[16:59:27]

iamlindoro:

a) I don't care that much, but I would want to insist on *no* new settings aside from one to opt-in, b) I strongly suspect Isaac will veto it, or at least veto the information being public

[17:00:04]

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[17:00:29]

gbee:

iamlindoro: he hasn't veto'd the idea in the past, it was discussed extensively a year or two back

[17:00:55]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Figured if it were okay with him the smolt thing would long since have been folded in

[17:01:51]

iamlindoro:

I stand firm on no new settings, though ;)

[17:02:33]

** Beirdo makes a setting that is invisible to iamlindoro, but visible for everyone else **

[17:02:35]

kormoc:

the hardware profiles?

[17:02:44]

Beirdo:

oh, there he is

[17:02:50]

gbee:

I don't remember exactly what was said at the time, but I thought it was just a question of apathy among those devs who end up responsible for committing/maintaining

[17:02:53]

Beirdo:

!salmon kormoc

[17:02:53]

** MythLogBot plants a salmon upside the head of kormoc on behalf of Beirdo... **

[17:02:56]

iamlindoro:

hardware statistics gathering, yeah

[17:03:11]

kormoc:

I remember the only thing was that we wanted to keep it anonymous

[17:03:12]

Beirdo:

I like the idea of stats.

[17:03:21]

iamlindoro:

Just think that any discussion thereof needs to include folks w/ commit access before rushing off to implement anything ;)

[17:03:23]

Beirdo:

but for sure, it needs to be anonymized

[17:03:24]

gbee:

I don't want to imply that Isaac was in favour, just that I don't remember him objecting

[17:03:25]

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[17:03:50]

gbee:

iamlindoro: it's already implemented, if we went ahead with anything it would be what jams has already created

[17:04:04]

iamlindoro:

I agree

[17:04:12]

iamlindoro:

(that was another point I intended to make)

[17:04:43]

iamlindoro:

I think devinheitmueller had some input about the smolt stuff in terms of what additional info he would like to see (to help with getting support from tuner manufacturers)

[17:04:57]

iamlindoro:

I think it would be worthwhile to accomodate his requests since it benefits us, if at all possible

[17:04:57]

kormoc:

Will we need to setup a mythtv.org service for this or will it hit a 3rd party server?

[17:08:11]

Beirdo:

I'd like to see it on services.mythtv.org but I'm not the implementor, so...

[17:08:18]

kormoc:

well

[17:08:25]

Beirdo:

and an anonymized graph...

[17:08:26]

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[17:08:31]

kormoc:

I seem to recall that being one of those 'must haves' for Isaac

[17:08:37]

kormoc:

he didn't want a 3rd party server handling it

[17:08:47]

Beirdo:

yeah

[17:08:50]

Beirdo:

makes sense

[17:11:36]

** kormoc nudges jams for details (if he's around and has time) **

[17:11:47]

Beirdo:

mmmm, jam

[17:11:49]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:12:09]

Beirdo:

kormoc: you like jam? I can make some later :)

[17:12:24]

kormoc:

Hehe, yeah, in moderation

[17:12:31]

Beirdo:

heh.

[17:12:31]

kormoc:

I have a wonderful pepper jam xris made

[17:12:37]

Beirdo:

mmmm

[17:12:46]

kormoc:

and I'm jealous of his apple cinnamon jam

[17:12:51]

Dibblah:

I'm still finishing last year's jam. Have 12 jars left.

[17:12:53]

Beirdo:

I'll have to see what berries I can find there

[17:13:10]

Beirdo:

I make em in batches, can them in mason jars

[17:13:12]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: yeah, I'm here.

[17:13:26]

Beirdo:

which reminds me.. MUST be sure to bring the recipe box

[17:13:42]

devinheitmueller:

Basically, I'm just looking for some stats on the total size of the mythtv userbase, and some sort of breakdown showing specifically which tuner products they are using.

[17:13:48]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: See scrollback, just looking for specific examples of how the smolt stuff could be improved if we fold it in to myth

[17:14:03]

iamlindoro:

ie, more specific information, specifically

[17:14:39]

devinheitmueller:

Well, even with the addition of subsystem IDs (whereas today we only capture PCI IDs), there are still plenty of cases where we would not be able to figure out what tuners are installed.

[17:14:59]

devinheitmueller:

One thing that could potentially help would be an enumeration of the v4l and dvb devices.

[17:15:01]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: I'd like to see output video card type, etc info in there too, and audio, BTW (in case they aren't planned).

[17:15:18]

iamlindoro:

cat /dev/requests > jams

[17:15:29]

Beirdo:

that would give us a good idea what's good bang/buck on bug fixing :)

[17:15:48]

Beirdo:

sorry. will do

[17:16:10]

iamlindoro:

heh, not because I'm not interested in helping, but merely because I've never even used the smolt stuff, let alone looked at its code :)

[17:16:22]

kormoc:

seconded

[17:16:34]

Beirdo:

yeah, might as well send it to the person who knows the most about it currently

[17:17:59]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:18:14]

Beirdo:

love how there's no debian/ubuntu install for smolt

[17:18:19]

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[17:18:22]

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[17:19:01]

Beirdo:

at least not on their out-of-date wiki

[17:19:54]

Beirdo:

ok, not at all

[17:20:49]

Beirdo:

gotta love distro politics

[17:21:08]

markl_:

everyone should just install Yggdrasl and STFU

[17:21:30]

Beirdo:

!salmon markl_ language

[17:21:30]

** MythLogBot connects with the head of markl_ with a language salmon on behalf of Beirdo... **

[17:22:08]

Beirdo:

been a long time since yggdrasil was in play too :)

[17:22:37]

** kormoc raises an eyebrow at markl_ **

[17:23:00]

kormoc:

markl_: you know... if you don't like the myth discussion in a myth channel... you could just /part...

[17:23:44]

markl_:

sorry just being silly

[17:24:10]

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[17:33:48]

jams:

Beirdo- it's not for lack of asking or invite

[17:34:07]

jams:

been down that road a few times

[17:34:10]

Beirdo:

:)

[17:34:34]

Beirdo:

so it's the ubuntu/debian folks that are holding it back? wouldn't surprise me

[17:36:08]

jams:

yep

[17:36:22]

Beirdo:

figuers

[17:36:27]

Beirdo:

figures even

[17:36:59]

kormoc:

jams: so we need to develop our own solution then?

[17:37:17]

kormoc:

oh wait

[17:37:18]

kormoc:

I see

[17:37:23]

jams:

kormoc- what do you mean?

[17:37:32]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: you left a bit abruptly last night... let me know if you want any help with those ordered dictionaries

[17:37:45]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: yeah... was way too late...

[17:37:45]

Beirdo:

anyways, it would be nice to have such functionality for mythtv, although rather than use one UUID per system, it might make sense per master-backend setup? (i.e. all backends, all frontends grouped together?

[17:37:49]

Beirdo:

)

[17:37:53]

kormoc:

jams: never mind, I was confused.

[17:38:01]

jams:

k

[17:38:20]

kormoc:

Beirdo: I had a thought that we should assign a id and have it stored in the database, so all the cluster can use the same id

[17:38:26]

Beirdo:

I dunno, just thinking out loud :)

[17:38:28]

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[17:38:52]

jams:

right now it's one id per system, but each system is labeled with a type.

[17:38:55]

Beirdo:

yeah, maybe within the cluster, be able to identify separate frontends and backends might be useful

[17:39:20]

Beirdo:

but to group the entire system together can be instructive too

[17:39:37]

jams:

agreed

[17:40:45]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: also, variables defined in the class before initialization are persistent and global among all instances of that class, so you can use those to cache 'DESC' responses and not have to repeatedly query them

[17:41:12]

kormoc:

huh

[17:42:58]

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[17:46:34]

wagnerrp:

'whatever. i fixed the issue on my machine'... then why not upload the patch?

[17:46:49]

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[17:46:58]

Beirdo:

yeah, selfish lusers. :)

[17:47:04]

iamlindoro:

He fixed it by changing his hostname

[17:49:03]

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[17:59:08]

wagnerrp:

does anyone know off hand what revision the 9.10 pre-release is?

[17:59:37]

kormoc:

did we ever get slacktv's mythweb issue resolved?

[18:00:03]

iamlindoro:

rss564 I think?

[18:00:07]

iamlindoro:

er r22564

[18:00:13]

iamlindoro:

somewhere in the 225xxs

[18:00:40]

wagnerrp:

so likely after the multiple connection patch for the telnet socket in 22514

[18:02:53]

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[18:03:29]

iamlindoro:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODA5Nw

[18:04:09]

Saviq:

congratz on upmixing, guys, love it

[18:05:11]

Saviq:

what about an option in playback menu to toggle passthrough? I often use my a2dp headset through pulse, would be nice to be able to toggle that, too

[18:05:28]

Saviq:

especially on HD where there's only ac3 audio

[18:05:39]

iamlindoro:

no more options

[18:05:55]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: you do know that's likely not tenable :)

[18:06:07]

Beirdo:

a great goal though

[18:06:20]

iamlindoro:

It's perfectly tenable-- we can start putting new options in once we've ripped out the dozens of useless ones

[18:06:36]

Beirdo:

hehe, OK.

[18:06:50]

Beirdo:

so not "never more options", just not right now ;)

[18:06:51]

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[18:07:09]

iamlindoro:

yup :)

[18:07:21]

Beirdo:

whew :)

[18:07:24]

iamlindoro:

and when new options go in, nothing that can be avoided using

[18:07:39]

iamlindoro:

ie no options for tiny, trivial behaviors where a default behavior is better

[18:08:05]

Beirdo:

well, maybe an "expert mode" where people can tweak everything and its dog?

[18:08:24]

Beirdo:

but hide it :)

[18:08:26]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:09:32]

iamlindoro:

I fear getting through this whole effort of simplifying and then watching it creep back to awful again

[18:10:05]

Beirdo:

well, in something this complex and varied in drivers, etc, it's quite hard not to have that happen

[18:10:12]

iamlindoro:

Everyone complains about our setup and ocean of options-- many of those options either do nothing any more, could be replaced with a keybinding, or toggle some tiny behavior for a patch that we never should have applied

[18:10:18]

Beirdo:

yeah

[18:10:32]

iamlindoro:

like sphery's favorite, the preview image offset

[18:10:37]

gbee:

hide it good, and randomise the way it's enabled so that everyone has to figure it out for themselves and not by reading a post on a forum

[18:10:38]

Beirdo:

I hear ya. no more useless crappy options for no reason

[18:10:50]

wagnerrp:

and those same users that complain about being overburdened with options... complain when those very same options are taken away

[18:10:58]

iamlindoro:

ah-yup

[18:10:59]

Beirdo:

yes they do

[18:11:07]

Beirdo:

users are a pain :)

[18:11:18]

Beirdo:

I'm glad I'm a user... lets me be a pain too

[18:11:19]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:11:51]

** wagnerrp gets the cattle prod... **

[18:11:59]

Beirdo:

I just fear that without the stats to know if we screwed people, we may remove something a LOT of users depend on

[18:12:05]

wagnerrp:

back... back... back to the list with you

[18:12:18]

iamlindoro:

anyway, I'm not trying to be a pain about the no option thing, merely trying to keep the momentum (however small) of addressing our usability issues going

[18:12:22]

Beirdo:

don't make me write a bash script :)

[18:12:35]

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[18:12:51]

wagnerrp:

only if it lets iamlindoro abandon one or more plugins

[18:12:52]

Beirdo:

yeah, I'm with you there, just hope we don't overdo it and have to back some of it out

[18:12:54]

gbee:

iamlindoro: as that article I was talking about yesterday proves, we've actually got it easy, when your business depends on keeping stupid users happy you end up with a product that is hopelessly compromised

[18:13:12]

Beirdo:

I guess if we do, we will actually implement it right the next time hopefully

[18:13:57]

** Beirdo shrugs **

[18:14:26]

iamlindoro:

Hopefully daniel does start work on the backend setup rework as he has mentioned, that alone would be a huge step

[18:14:30]

** Beirdo is slowly falling asleep, even with the coffee **

[18:14:37]

Beirdo:

yeah

[18:14:44]

Beirdo:

once we are outta feature slush :)

[18:14:45]

iamlindoro:

And an opportunity to all get our grubby hands on it with sanity checking, autodetection, etc.

[18:15:02]

wagnerrp:

more filler for the bindings...

[18:16:04]

** Beirdo wonders where wagnerrp hid the cattle prod **

[18:16:17]

** wagnerrp should do something when they hit 5000 lines **

[18:17:34]

iamlindoro:

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22841#post118812

[18:17:45]

iamlindoro:

I must say the commentary so far has been much more civilized than for .22

[18:18:10]

iamlindoro:

perhaps partially helped by improvements in our policies/renewed faith in MythUI/etc. I hope

[18:18:13]

wagnerrp:

they were appeased by a pretty UI

[18:18:31]

** wagnerrp beers gbee **

[18:19:09]

Beirdo:

gbee: come to Seattle, and I'm sure we can set you up with a beer or five ;)

[18:19:43]

iamlindoro:

gbee: multiline textedit still intended for .23?

[18:21:51]

sphery:

While MythTV faces greater competition these days in the free software HTPC / PVR arena with competition from the likes of XBMC, Boxee, Enna, and others

[18:21:56]

sphery:

is any of those actually a PVR?

[18:22:14]

wagnerrp:

sphery: read the first comment

[18:22:33]

sphery:

I know that XBMC is the "universal UI for all PVR's, past, present, and future" with its DVR backend junk, but...

[18:22:46]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[18:22:48]

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[18:23:07]

sphery:

And PVR front end is one of the new features going mainline in the next XBMC release. XBMC has the potential to make MythTV drop much lower on the suck-o-meter.

[18:23:12]

iamlindoro:

Denying that we are also an HTPC/media center software just gives us an opportunity to neglect the plugins-- like it or not, mythvideo, mythmusic, etc. are integral parts of MythTV and we *are* in direct competition with those softwares on those counts

[18:23:14]

sphery:

nice

[18:23:47]

PsychoI3oy:

Beirdo, ok, gentoo (in their infinite wisdom) nuked nuvexport entirely from portage and the bugzilla suggests " please use the nuvexport from upstream instead. it's only a script, afterall."

[18:24:01]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:24:07]

Beirdo:

it's not JUST a script

[18:24:26]

wagnerrp:

its only perl, its certainly no bash

[18:24:30]

Beirdo:

it's a script with several associated internal perl modules

[18:24:31]

sphery:

maybe you can port it to 1800 lines of bash

[18:24:31]

PsychoI3oy:

that's why it's quoted, with extra dripping sarcasm around 'infinite wisdom'

[18:24:52]

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[18:24:54]

wagnerrp:

come on Beirdo, take it like a programmer

[18:25:03]

Beirdo:

sphery: sure, that could be done :)

[18:25:04]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:25:07]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: personally? ;)

[18:25:09]

PsychoI3oy:

users on the forums say it works fine with 0.22 (duh) even though it was nuked for depending on .21

[18:25:09]

Beirdo:

I dont' think I will though

[18:25:22]

sphery:

Beirdo: then how about C++/Qt :)

[18:25:40]

PsychoI3oy:

so I'll go manually install it, but if any other Gentoo users ask, blame Gentoo

[18:25:45]

sphery:

accessible through the frontend or callable as a command-line prog...

[18:25:47]

sphery:

that would be nice

[18:25:48]

PsychoI3oy:

(isn't that SOP for gentoo anyway?)

[18:26:02]

wagnerrp:

no, gentoo is fine... we blame gentoo users

[18:26:04]

sphery:

(but then we couldn't rely on external tools... which means more like 18000 lines+)

[18:26:09]

wagnerrp:

(spoken as a gentoo user)

[18:26:12]

PsychoI3oy:

wagnerrp, fair enough

[18:26:16]

PsychoI3oy:

same here, obviously

[18:26:18]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[18:26:26]

** PsychoI3oy funrolls some loops **

[18:26:48]

** Beirdo pities the poor penguin for having a distro named after it **

[18:27:18]

wagnerrp:

hey man, gentoos are awesome

[18:27:43]

sphery:

Beirdo: do you pity Hannah Montana, too?

[18:27:50]

Beirdo:

why?

[18:27:50]

wagnerrp:

you go to the aquarium, theyre always frolicking in the water, playing, swimming back and forth, jumping 5ft into the air out of the water

[18:27:58]

Beirdo:

why would I pity her?

[18:27:59]

sphery:

Beirdo: http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/Site/Home.html

[18:28:03]

wagnerrp:

meanwhile the emperor penguins just stand there

[18:28:09]

Beirdo:

haha, that's just asking to be sued

[18:28:10]

wagnerrp:

and stand there some more

[18:28:16]

wagnerrp:

and continue... just ... standing... there

[18:28:56]

Beirdo:

sphery: I think Disney would be happy to shut that one down

[18:28:59]

PsychoI3oy:

ohgodkillitwithfire

[18:29:13]

sphery:

yeah, it's been around for a while--but I don't know how

[18:29:29]

Beirdo:

likely because Disney doesn't know? :)

[18:29:31]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:30:19]

Beirdo:

if they use the "actress"' real name, Disney has no leg to stand on... just the daughter of a sucky country singer

[18:30:30]

Beirdo:

but I'm sure they own that name

[18:30:48]

Beirdo:

I still hate Achy Breaky Heart

[18:32:28]

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[18:32:35]

** wagnerrp is excited about 0.23 for no other reason than to see how the server stands up to a slashdotting **

[18:33:06]

Beirdo:

please no links to trac then :)

[18:33:34]

kormoc:

They'll link directly to the 8.8 meg table diff...

[18:33:51]

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[18:34:11]

iamlindoro:

Are we on slizzdat?

[18:34:14]

Beirdo:

kormoc: how was that not compressed first, and decompressed by startup code? :)

[18:34:17]

wagnerrp:

no, not yet

[18:43:32]

sphery:

Beirdo / kormoc : http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1851687

[18:43:38]

sphery:

guess who didn't commit it :)

[18:44:10]

Beirdo:

yeah

[18:44:25]

Beirdo:

if we are only using a small portion, we should nuke the rest

[18:44:40]

Beirdo:

if we are using it all, we should consider ways to shrink it

[18:45:08]

Beirdo:

i.e. build it in compressed so the frigging binaries aren't as huge.. or the svn tree :)

[18:45:23]

Beirdo:

decompressing would take insignificant time

[18:46:14]

** iamlindoro is already fearing backlash from certain people when he commits his code to (properly) build our list of audio devices from the ALSA api instead of some giant static list of whatever people thought might exist on people's systems **

[18:46:33]

Beirdo:

oh NO, doing things right?!

[18:46:36]

Beirdo:

shame on you

[18:47:01]

wagnerrp:

dont most people think we already do that?

[18:48:09]

iamlindoro:

yeah, they think so

[18:48:24]

gbee:

alsa gives me a headache, so I still have questions

[18:48:39]

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[18:49:15]

wagnerrp:

'help, mythtv no longer autodetects my <insert device here>'

[18:49:15]

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[18:49:15]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v sphery

[18:49:30]

sphery:

wonder what that key was...

[18:49:49]

sphery:

locked up my terminal or screen session--and it wasn't Ctrl-S or Ctrl-A

[18:49:59]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Tell me how my new code is in any way less functional that $dev's grab-bag-o-device-names and I'll attempt to address it :)

[18:50:23]

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[18:50:35]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Granted, I see opportunities for it to be better by also writing code to parse ~/.asoundrc, but that shouldn't prevent the initial patch going in

[18:50:54]

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[18:52:08]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: when do we get feature spring? Right after 0.23 (official)?

[18:52:42]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: I would think that minor additions are probably okay now since we have the branch, I just suspect that daniel would prefer we wait a bit on protocol changes/db upgrades/etc.

[18:52:56]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: are we really parsing .asoundrc? I sincerely hope not...

[18:52:57]

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[18:52:57]

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[18:52:58]

gbee:

iamlindoro: I'm in favour of adding the devices reported by the API, it's really just the question of custom devices which the alsa API in it's infinite wisdom doesn't display, I know nothing stops users manually typing them in but ...

[18:53:11]

wagnerrp:

right now, mythfrontend doesnt do anything

[18:53:13]

gbee:

devinheitmueller: no we're not

[18:53:18]

devinheitmueller:

ok, good.

[18:53:18]

wagnerrp:

its just a static internal list of possible devices

[18:53:31]

devinheitmueller:

Oh? I assumed it was getting the list from ALSA.

[18:53:36]

wagnerrp:

or users can type in their own

[18:53:40]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Right, but we don't address custom devices now either, so...

[18:53:42]

Beirdo:

K. I was thinking of starting on pounding on some perl bindings, etc. And maybe adding new exporters to nuvexport

[18:53:42]

devinheitmueller:

Wow. Ok.

[18:53:45]

gbee:

not yet, that's what iamlindoro patch does

[18:53:46]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: thats what iamlindoro's patch is supposed to do

[18:53:47]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: right, it's not. Bad.

[18:54:08]

gbee:

iamlindoro: but we do, at least for those using the recommended catch-all asoundrc

[18:54:11]

sphery:

devinheitmueller: the issue comes down to the fact that the ALSA API's changed such that user- or system-defined logical device names are no longer reported by the API

[18:54:22]

devinheitmueller:

Well, that would explain why I had users complaining that they were only seeing "alsa:default" in the list and not tuners that I know were definitely there.

[18:54:34]

** wagnerrp looks at the head start hes got in the bindings arms race **

[18:54:35]

sphery:

current list is hardcoded

[18:54:42]

devinheitmueller:

ok.

[18:54:48]

iamlindoro:

gbee: So we should add static devices because of a wiki page written by god knows who?

[18:54:53]

sphery:

and has a bunch of, er, system-specific ones that only exist on some people's systems

[18:55:03]

gbee:

iamlindoro: written by sphery ... well ...

[18:55:11]

iamlindoro:

gbee: The ones pulled from the ALSA API a) exist, and b) at least one is likely to work, so I don't see the issue

[18:55:52]

gbee:

he's now dis-owning that work, but over the last couple of years we've referred a _lot_ of people to it, myself included :)

[18:56:09]

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[18:56:15]

iamlindoro:

well it's a well known fact that pshery has no idea WTF he's talking about

[18:56:18]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: yeah well... the primary use for the perl bindings is nuvexport, after all

[18:56:18]

iamlindoro:

sphery:

[18:56:21]

iamlindoro:

;)

[18:56:30]

sphery:

I never wrote the wiki page... I wrote the post on the list and the ALSA conf, but the wiki page is where users copied stuff I said, then changed quotes to make it seem I said something else

[18:56:36]

gbee:

iamlindoro: not with HDMI unfortunately, or digital without passthrough, you have to resample 44Khz stuff

[18:56:39]

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[18:56:40]

sphery:

So I've taken as much reference to me out of it

[18:56:54]

iamlindoro:

gbee: HDMI on my system works out of the box with my patch

[18:57:00]

sphery:

But I do think that we're better off not listing those devices

[18:57:08]

iamlindoro:

though admittedly it doesn't cover the plughw stuff

[18:57:13]

sphery:

and just making sure that anyone who finds that page knows to type in what they want

[18:57:13]

iamlindoro:

(the resample)

[18:57:28]

gbee:

iamlindoro: not mine, never has, for recordings sure – the audio sample rate matches what the hardware is capable of, but not for music

[18:57:39]

gbee:

mp3s in this case

[18:57:52]

iamlindoro:

Sheesh, of all the people I thought would be arguing *for* tidiness

[18:58:11]

iamlindoro:

and we resample now anyway in the new audio code TTBOMK?

[18:58:30]

iamlindoro:

(internal to myth)

[18:58:42]

sphery:

IMHO, the plughw stuff should /not/ be in mythtv config

[18:58:46]

sphery:

it's ALSA config

[18:58:53]

Josh``:

Could anyone offer some suggestions why my Program Guide whine watching LiveTV is completely unusable? I'm running current 0.22-fixes on a VDPAU-disabled nvidia GPU machine. (P4 2.8Ghz, remote frontend, SD video stream @ 1280x1024 resolution)

[18:58:56]

sphery:

should be in the "completely unnecessary on modern distros" ALSA config

[18:59:21]

sphery:

Josh``: you've told MythTV you have channel icons in some place on the file system, but they're not there or they're not readable

[18:59:41]

wagnerrp:

you have a VDPAU-disabled GPU? what does that mean?

[18:59:41]

Josh``:

sphery, let me check.

[19:00:01]

Josh``:

wagnerrp, vdpau is disabled in ./configure, but still an Nvidia GPU

[19:00:14]

wagnerrp:

but is it a card that otherwise supports VDPAU?

[19:00:18]

Josh``:

wagnerrp, No.

[19:00:22]

sphery:

Josh``: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e 'UPDATE channel SET icon = 'none';'

[19:00:24]

Josh``:

5200

[19:00:28]

wagnerrp:

so why mention VDPAU?

[19:00:40]

sphery:

then if it works, be more careful about what you specify for channel icons when you add them back

[19:00:53]

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[19:01:06]

gbee:

iamlindoro: you seem to think I'm arguing against your patch and I'm not, I'm all for dropping the stuff which is redundant as a result, but I can't shake the nagging feeling that as long as ALSA is a pile of shit that we should do whatever is reasonable to assist users in correctly selecting a working audio device

[19:01:06]

Josh``:

wagnerrp, because it's explicitly disabled. Thought it was pertinent information

[19:01:38]

wagnerrp:

the fact that you mentioned VDPAU would suggest you were using a VDPAU-capable card on a non-PCIe system, meaning a PCI card, and trying to pump large quantities of raw uncompressed video over it... which could possibly have been your problem

[19:02:03]

Josh``:

wagnerrp, No sir. This machine has never had a VDPAU capable card installed in it.

[19:02:11]

gbee:

iamlindoro: I hate alsa with a vengence, so maybe I'm blinded, but I spent _hours_ trying to figure out why audio over hdmi wasn't working and that's something I don't wish on anyone

[19:02:29]

Josh``:

sphery, Would it matter taht the program guide *outside* of livetv works wonderfully?

[19:02:49]

iamlindoro:

gbee: TTBOMK the audio resampling stuff should be handled internal to myth as of current trunk/.23, but given the source I trust that as far as I can throw it

[19:02:59]

sphery:

Josh``: if that's the case, it's almost definitely your use of (a bad) playback profile

[19:03:13]

sphery:

Josh``: change your playback profile group from CPU+ (which is probably what it is) to Slim

[19:03:16]

iamlindoro:

gbee: regarding presenting the .asoundrc stuff, I will see if maybe there's something I'm missing tha they're not presented with my code

[19:03:17]

wagnerrp:

Josh``: so the problem exists when you open the full screen EPG in livetv mode, so you get the little playback window in the corner?

[19:03:29]

sphery:

Josh``: Utilities/Setup|Setup|TV Settings|Playback, 3rd screen

[19:03:30]

Josh``:

sphery, let me change playback profile to slim

[19:03:41]

Josh``:

wagnerrp, correct.

[19:03:57]

wagnerrp:

yeah, sphery is probably right about a bad profile causing problems

[19:04:12]

Josh``:

wagnerrp, when EPG is opened in LiveTV, the entire system pretty much stops responding, but the little video box in the corner is still playing

[19:04:24]

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[19:04:40]

Josh``:

wagnerrp, if I exit immediaately, it takes about 3 minuites for the EPG tto exit, and bring me back to the still-playing stream

[19:04:54]

Josh``:

Let me double check playback profile

[19:05:23]

iamlindoro:

gbee: problem solved-ish

[19:05:33]

sphery:

Josh``: if you mean that you get the EPG, then move the cursor a single position in any direction, then nothing responds, it's a focus problem

[19:05:57]

iamlindoro:

gbee: the function I'm using *will* return them if you use the hint {} functionality in the .asoundrc

[19:06:05]

sphery:

if you mean it's completely unusable--even for scrolling a single position in any direction--it's likely playback profile

[19:06:11]

iamlindoro:

gbee: So we leave the code as it is, modify the wiki page to include appropriate hinting, and voila?

[19:06:22]

gbee:

iamlindoro: the four devices created by that asoundrc are the mixed-digital, mixed-analog, digital, analog – but don't ask me what the difference is between them all, the one I use and which seems to be recommended most of the time is mixed-digital

[19:06:25]

gbee:

iamlindoro: works for me

[19:06:28]

matmatmat:

hi

[19:06:42]

iamlindoro:

cool

[19:07:18]

matmatmat:

o.. gotta run

[19:07:20]

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[19:09:08]

Josh``:

Current playback profile is set to CPU+, let me see if changing to slim changes the situation

[19:09:46]

Josh``:

Is it worth changing the setting for "Max CPUs" on a P4 with Hyperthreading?

[19:09:56]

Josh``:

Max CPUs is currently set to 1

[19:10:35]

gbee:

for vdpau it's unused

[19:10:43]

wagnerrp:

heh.... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/ . . . find-out.ars

[19:10:58]

Josh``:

gbee, no VDPAU on this machine.

[19:11:02]

gbee:

oh, you aren't using vdpau, in that case yes

[19:11:13]

Josh``:

Gotcha.

[19:11:15]

gbee:

or maybe, I don't really know

[19:11:17]

wagnerrp:

gbee: not using vdpau... the 'vdpau-disabled' was unneeded information

[19:11:43]

NightMonkey:

gbee: Is there a Linux audio subsystem you'd prefer over ALSA?

[19:11:45]

wagnerrp:

changing the 'max cpus' probably wont make any difference

[19:12:36]

gbee:

wagnerrp: I didn't read back past the last minute of discussion, and then I wasn't paying close enough attention

[19:13:09]

iamlindoro:

gbee: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki?title=Configuring_ . . . ;oldid=43189

[19:13:21]

iamlindoro:

gbee: If I am reading correctly, those should show up with the new code

[19:13:28]

iamlindoro:

I will confirm later

[19:13:41]

gbee:

NightMonkey: I really like OSS, but generally, no, ALSA is utterly terrible at least from the user perspective, but there aren't a lot of choices on linux

[19:14:23]

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[19:14:24]

Josh``:

Okay, that made it a little better. I can get about 4 button presses into the EPG before the EPG stops responding

[19:15:58]

gbee:

and to be fair, when I last used Windows (Windows 2K) it wasn't much better, it's largely a problem with the hardware design and drivers, it's never quite plug and play unless you want stereo from the first audio device :)

[19:17:37]

Josh``:

I can also log into the telnet interface, but aside from the initial logon, it won't respond either.

[19:17:40]

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[19:19:24]

Josh``:

If it were a focus issue the telnet interface would still respond, correct/

[19:19:27]

Josh``:

?

[19:19:29]

gbee:

the very fact that intel HDA hardware can only handle 48Khz, but the snd_hda_intel driver doesn't automatically resample is just one of a laundary list of issues I have with ALSA

[19:19:36]

PsychoI3oy:

Beirdo, k, i grabbed the march1 snapshot of nuvexport, works fine on the mythbox, still failing on the desktop with ' Found 6 files, but no matching database entries. ' ; i've got mysql squared away to connect to the db (it was giving db access errors before); where should I look next?

[19:21:09]

Beirdo:

if it can't find database entries, it's not going to work

[19:21:16]

PsychoI3oy:

right

[19:21:25]

Beirdo:

unless I'm mentally missing something

[19:21:32]

gbee:

my one experience with OSS4 was magical, the device which I'd never quite got to work with ALSA instantly worked with no configuration after installing it, the tools were all beautifully simple and returned idiot-proof user friendly device names etc

[19:21:55]

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[19:22:09]

PsychoI3oy:

Beirdo, the mythbox running nuvexport locally has no problem showing me the shows I have; running nuvexport from the desktop fails with that error

[19:22:20]

gbee:

but that was nothing more than a glimpse, OSS4 may have it's own set of issues that I never took the time to discover

[19:22:29]

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[19:22:47]

Beirdo:

from what desktop?

[19:23:00]

Beirdo:

you're not making any sense

[19:23:04]

oobe:

a remote desktop i think he means

[19:23:13]

** wagnerrp suggests we all succumb to Pulse... **

[19:23:17]

oobe:

like a remote machine on his lan

[19:23:22]

wagnerrp:

... oh wait, pulse doesnt do hardware

[19:23:27]

PsychoI3oy:

Beirdo, i have 2 boxes, a desktop and a mythtv dedicated backend

[19:23:54]

PsychoI3oy:

Beirdo, historically I've run nuvexport on the desktop because it's got much more CPU, and this has worked

[19:24:02]

Beirdo:

ahhh, last time I tried doing it on the remote end, IIRC, the machine running nuvexport had to be configured as a backend, but that was... 4 years ago

[19:24:25]

gbee:

wagnerrp: whether time will prove me right or wrong, pulse is IMHO only a band-aid over the gapping flaws in ALSA

[19:24:36]

PsychoI3oy:

even set up user jobs that had the mythtv@mythbox ssh to mythtv@desktop and run nuvexport

[19:24:38]

PsychoI3oy:

worked great

[19:24:58]

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[19:25:09]

wagnerrp:

PsychoI3oy: why not set up a jobqueue on the desktop?

[19:25:19]

Josh``:

EPG is still broken, sigh.

[19:25:27]

PsychoI3oy:

wagnerrp, doing what?

[19:25:35]

wagnerrp:

mythjobqueue

[19:25:40]

PsychoI3oy:

running mythbackend on the desktop?

[19:25:43]

wagnerrp:

the jobqueue, without all the rest of the backend nonsense

[19:25:48]

PsychoI3oy:

ooh

[19:25:55]

PsychoI3oy:

interesting

[19:26:05]

wagnerrp:

intended for exactly your scenario

[19:26:15]

Beirdo:

which essentially still ends up running *like* a backend, but withouth tuners, etc

[19:26:15]

PsychoI3oy:

i'll look into it

[19:26:18]

Beirdo:

correct?

[19:26:24]

PsychoI3oy:

that'd be nice

[19:26:28]

wagnerrp:

someone wanting to use additional and/or faster machines for jobs, but doesnt want all the extra cruft

[19:26:39]

Beirdo:

yeah

[19:26:39]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: more it ends up running the jobqueue

[19:26:48]

PsychoI3oy:

wouldn't solve my nuvexport issue, heh

[19:26:49]

wagnerrp:

the backend runs a lot more than just that and tuners

[19:26:51]

PsychoI3oy:

or would it

[19:27:00]

Beirdo:

it might

[19:27:16]

wagnerrp:

i.e. it does not host a socket server, nor does it support file access

[19:27:23]

Beirdo:

right

[19:27:39]

Beirdo:

but it has entries in settings kinda like a backend

[19:27:50]

Beirdo:

something like that?

[19:27:53]

PsychoI3oy:

well, lemme try starting the backend on the desktop as a slave and seeing if nuvexport works

[19:28:00]

Beirdo:

it's been a while since I even looked

[19:28:09]

PsychoI3oy:

no

[19:28:21]

wagnerrp:

as i understand it, it only needs the flags which set whether it can run certain jobs or not

[19:28:25]

Beirdo:

but IIRC the issue I saw was that it was some extra setup required

[19:28:33]

wagnerrp:

although you typically have to run through mythtv-setup to set those up

[19:28:39]

Beirdo:

yup

[19:28:43]

wagnerrp:

so you would have all the normal 'backend' settings as well

[19:29:07]

Beirdo:

I think that's what I did to get nuvexport behaving remotely like that

[19:29:23]

Beirdo:

do a setup to get the settings for that machine in existance

[19:29:31]

Beirdo:

but again... years ago

[19:29:38]

gbee:

ALSA is an engineers idea of what an audio subsystem should look like, it was never designed with technically inexperienced users in mind, pulse attempts to rememdy some of that but at the same time it's still about features which the average user has no need for (forwarding audio to another machine?), I'd much rather see someone start from scratch to unify the ideas, create an audio system that is both incredibly simple and

[19:29:39]

gbee:

user-friendly but powerful enough for the few geeks who want to play </rant>

[19:29:40]

oobe:

i dont think you need to start a slave backend

[19:29:58]

Beirdo:

oobe: nope, just configure the settings, IIRC

[19:30:00]

oobe:

couldnt you just export the values before nuvexport is loaded

[19:30:10]

oobe:

DBHostName=

[19:30:17]

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[19:30:19]

oobe:

DBName=

[19:30:21]

oobe:

etc.

[19:30:36]

Beirdo:

it still looks for settings for the machine

[19:30:46]

oobe:

you could even put it in a wrapper export DBName=mythconverg

[19:31:11]

Beirdo:

and I'm not sure if it pulls from the environment

[19:31:16]

oobe:

where does it look for the settings

[19:31:19]

Beirdo:

I can't really check that right now

[19:31:23]

oobe:

ok

[19:31:48]

oobe:

so setting env vars might work for PsychoI3oy

[19:32:18]

Beirdo:

it might, but I can't check that right now

[19:32:19]

PsychoI3oy:

i thought it loaded from ~/.mythtv/config.xml ?

[19:32:32]

PsychoI3oy:

'twas bitching at me when I didn't have that on the backend

[19:32:45]

PsychoI3oy:

i copied that from my desktop and it works there now

[19:33:40]

** iamlindoro refers PsychoI3oy to the channel rules, mentioned in the topic, on swearing **

[19:33:50]

PsychoI3oy:

doh, sorry

[19:35:51]

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[19:36:00]

oobe:

PsychoI3oy, try this http://pastebin.ca/1851739

[19:36:30]

oobe:

just save it as whatever then execute it as a test

[19:36:36]

oobe:

bash file

[19:36:40]

oobe:

or chmod it

[19:37:20]

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[19:37:51]

PsychoI3oy:

oobe, same fail, "Found 6 files, but no matching database entries."

[19:38:10]

oobe:

ok so it doesnt work Beirdo

[19:38:13]

Beirdo:

have you TRIED running mythtv-setup on the desktop machine?

[19:38:28]

Beirdo:

the issue isn't that you don't know where to find the database

[19:38:30]

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[19:38:31]

PsychoI3oy:

been in there a couple times

[19:38:36]

PsychoI3oy:

it's all correct

[19:38:36]

oobe:

does mythfrontend connect fine on the desktop

[19:38:40]

PsychoI3oy:

yes

[19:38:54]

Beirdo:

meh, put in a bug ticket

[19:39:06]

Beirdo:

I'll take a look later on when I'm not at work.

[19:39:22]

PsychoI3oy:

what info do you need?

[19:40:05]

Beirdo:

well, exact error message would be a good start, so I can look through the code to find what's being triggered

[19:40:13]

Beirdo:

of course, you can do that too :)

[19:40:18]

PsychoI3oy:

that I can

[19:40:26]

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[19:40:51]

Beirdo:

I may need more info after, but that's a good start

[19:41:00]

oobe:

PsychoI3oy, do you have a ~/.mythtv/config.xml

[19:41:06]

PsychoI3oy:

oobe, yes

[19:41:52]

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[19:42:13]

gbee:

who'd want to be on Windows ... 50,000 new virus/worms/trojans a day

[19:42:40]

gbee:

it defies belief

[19:42:45]

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[19:42:45]

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[19:44:56]

PsychoI3oy:

oobe, all the settings in it appear correct; I was concerned about DBPort being 0, but changing that to 4597 gave me a different error so I changed it back

[19:45:32]

oobe:

perhaps nuvexport still uses /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt

[19:46:12]

PsychoI3oy:

I did the whole 'GRANT ALL PRIVLEGES ON *.* TO mythtv@-host- IDENTIFIED BY 'password';

[19:46:15]

PsychoI3oy:

thing

[19:46:25]

PsychoI3oy:

for several variations on 'host'

[19:46:48]

PsychoI3oy:

it was bitching about not having access at one point but now just the error above

[19:47:13]

Beirdo:

4597?!

[19:47:30]

wagnerrp:

you just choose that at random?

[19:47:38]

PsychoI3oy:

no

[19:47:47]

PsychoI3oy:

oh

[19:47:48]

PsychoI3oy:

duh

[19:47:50]

PsychoI3oy:

heh

[19:47:54]

PsychoI3oy:

looking at the wrong part of netstat

[19:47:57]

Beirdo:

that's not a standard mysql port

[19:48:07]

PsychoI3oy:

that's the inode number of mysqld.sock

[19:48:11]

wagnerrp:

standard is 3306... and if set to 0, mythtv will use 3306

[19:48:17]

PsychoI3oy:

k

[19:48:21]

iamlindoro:

Combination to luggage

[19:48:23]

PsychoI3oy:

i haven't messed with it

[19:48:58]

PsychoI3oy:

yes, netstat shows it listening on :mysql, which I'm guessing is the default 3306

[19:49:16]

Beirdo:

!trout PsychoI3oy man netstat

[19:49:16]

** MythLogBot slaps PsychoI3oy with a man netstat trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[19:49:22]

Beirdo:

no need to guess :)

[19:49:26]

PsychoI3oy:

bleh

[19:49:34]

iamlindoro:

sock sock sock

[19:49:35]

PsychoI3oy:

it's almost 2 hours past my bedtime

[19:50:04]

wagnerrp:

[14:26] <wagnerrp> no, gentoo is fine... we blame gentoo users

[19:50:12]

wagnerrp:

:P

[19:50:41]

Beirdo:

hehe

[19:51:32]

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[19:51:33]

oobe:

!trout mybum flaccid penis

[19:51:33]

** MythLogBot slaps mybum with a flaccid penis trout on behalf of oobe... **

[19:51:43]

Beirdo:

ummm

[19:51:46]

Beirdo:

behave

[19:51:50]

oobe:

lol

[19:52:19]

oobe:

i think im funny

[19:54:07]

kormoc:

oobe: I disagree

[19:54:43]

Beirdo:

looks aren't everything

[19:58:17]

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[19:59:01]

wagnerrp:

should we just close 7750?

[19:59:12]

** sphery thinks yes **

[19:59:23]

sphery:

FRWOP

[19:59:38]

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[19:59:43]

kormoc:

By the power of GREYSKULL!

[19:59:47]

sphery:

but if danielk owns it, I'd leave it

[20:00:06]

wagnerrp:

i was just going to reference the proper tickets and close it

[20:00:10]

sphery:

oh, jya... maybe leave it for him

[20:00:16]

sphery:

is there a better ticket?

[20:00:18]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Cornetto?

[20:00:30]

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[20:00:34]

wagnerrp:

7496?

[20:01:02]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: tasty

[20:01:03]

sphery:

that seems fair

[20:01:10]

sphery:

might want to ask jya, first, though

[20:01:13]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Wondered if you were quoting Hot Fuzz :)

[20:01:37]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: heh, nah, I don't remember that part

[20:02:30]

PsychoI3oy:

blerg, even on the backend nuvexport is failing (it loads but mythtranscode dies instantly)

[20:02:38]

PsychoI3oy:

guess i get to play with --debug

[20:02:39]

PsychoI3oy:

later

[20:02:44]

PsychoI3oy:

for now: bed

[20:02:50]

PsychoI3oy:

thanks for the help

[20:03:04]

Beirdo:

have a good snooze

[20:03:05]

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[20:03:09]

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[20:03:22]

Beirdo:

huh?

[20:03:32]

Beirdo:

bedtime in comcast service land?!

[20:03:42]

kormoc:

envy

[20:03:46]

Beirdo:

OK then

[20:03:48]

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[20:03:56]

kormoc:

I could use a nap

[20:04:00]

Beirdo:

envy over the comcast, or bedtime, or both? :)

[20:04:13]

kormoc:

sleeping in any shape or form :P

[20:04:24]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:04:30]

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[20:04:38]

wagnerrp:

'flick to another face'?

[20:04:40]

Beirdo:

quassel this

[20:04:57]

wagnerrp:

is this one of those dolts who sat on a cube and spun?

[20:05:00]

Beirdo:

why are so many quassel users not setting the username?

[20:05:25]

** wagnerrp hates the rotating cube **

[20:05:30]

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[20:05:58]

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[20:06:26]

wagnerrp:

you think the rotating cube users ever wonder why neither of the 'big boys' have implemented something similar?

[20:06:47]

wagnerrp:

when they both support fully 3d composited UIs now

[20:07:11]

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[20:07:28]

Beirdo:

#8215 is definitely NOT a feature request

[20:07:33]

Beirdo:

it's a bug

[20:07:43]

wagnerrp:

check, its been re-opened

[20:07:49]

Beirdo:

good :)

[20:07:51]

wagnerrp:

and adjusted to better explain the issue

[20:07:56]

Wicked:

hmm...am i crazy or can i not search for shows under manage recordings > schedule recordings > search words > titles

[20:08:16]

Wicked:

the ok,delete,record buttons are always grayed out

[20:08:25]

Beirdo:

yeah. He did explain it well enough though. hostnames should always be treated as case insensitive

[20:08:40]

sphery:

Beirdo: it's the unique identifier that's not

[20:08:48]

sphery:

we don't do hostname resolution

[20:08:56]

Beirdo:

yeah, which defaults to a hostname, no?

[20:09:06]

Beirdo:

true :)

[20:09:17]

Beirdo:

heh, anyways, easy to fix

[20:09:19]

sphery:

the fact that we use hostname as a unique identifier is separate from the requirements on hostnames

[20:09:23]

iamlindoro:

The long and the short of it is that we *do* all agree that it's a bug

[20:09:31]

iamlindoro:

and that he was a bit of a dillweed about it

[20:09:31]

sphery:

it is now that he mentioned the one and only place it's an issue

[20:09:40]

iamlindoro:

especially in light of how minor it is

[20:09:42]

Beirdo:

hehe :)

[20:09:50]

Beirdo:

agreed

[20:09:51]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:10:23]

iamlindoro:

And that it's 100% sphery's fault

[20:10:25]

sphery:

I'd still like for some motivated user to separate out the hostname and unique identifier aspects of it

[20:10:27]

Beirdo:

there may be other similar spots to fix that he didn't notice before modifying the DB

[20:10:33]

sphery:

#6400

[20:10:44]

sphery:

someone who knows PHP needs to fix that

[20:10:52]

sphery:

(since I obviously failed)

[20:10:58]

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[20:11:09]

sphery:

er, #6700

[20:11:15]

sphery:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6700

[20:11:20]

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[20:11:21]

Wicked:

hmm...switching themes from arclight to something else...in this case mythcenter..i was able to to search words under schedlue recordings.

[20:11:24]

sphery:

I forgot to carry the 3

[20:11:25]

Beirdo:

hehe, that looks more like it

[20:11:28]

wagnerrp:

wasnt there some key in config.xml for that purpose?

[20:11:40]

wagnerrp:

theres some auto-generated UUID in there

[20:11:49]

wagnerrp:

why not just use that

[20:11:56]

sphery:

wagnerrp: it doesn't separate the fact that we're using the hostname for /both/ a hostname and a unique identifier

[20:12:04]

sphery:

it's LocalHostName

[20:12:11]

wagnerrp:

i mean as the global unique identifier

[20:12:11]

sphery:

which is just the hostname override

[20:12:17]

sphery:

yeah, LocalHostName

[20:12:29]

wagnerrp:

USN or something

[20:12:39]

sphery:

Oh, you mean use the USN

[20:12:50]

wagnerrp:

which seems to be blank here

[20:13:02]

sphery:

it's not blank--just not in your config

[20:13:05]

Beirdo:

we'll just poke kormoc to fix #8215 :)

[20:13:07]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:13:15]

iamlindoro:

If gbee decides to work on multiuser, it may not matter

[20:13:16]

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[20:13:20]

sphery:

kormoc: re #8215, ref: #6700

[20:13:34]

Beirdo:

as part of the python rewrite ;)

[20:13:35]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:13:58]

sphery:

I heard XBMC is the new frontend

[20:14:33]

kormoc:

hehe

[20:14:36]

** Beirdo thinks both XvMC and XBMC should roll over and die **

[20:14:49]

Beirdo:

just one key different

[20:15:16]

** kormoc starts XXMC (XTREME XTREME Media Center) **

[20:15:38]

Beirdo:

XCMC?

[20:15:49]

Beirdo:

Xtremely Crappy Media Center

[20:15:57]

Beirdo:

oh, it already exists

[20:16:00]

sphery:

Did someone watch The Big Bang Theory?

[20:16:12]

Beirdo:

unfortunatly not for months.

[20:16:54]

wagnerrp:

man... monday was a great episode

[20:17:01]

Beirdo:

:(

[20:17:11]

Beirdo:

it will be on my list once I settle

[20:17:21]

sphery:

heh, there was a joke on it about X-Men and that Sheldon's name wasn't Xavier, but was Cooper, so it wouldn't be X-Men... I thought your XCMC was a reference.

[20:17:39]

sphery:

after kormoc's XXMC

[20:17:49]

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[20:17:51]

wagnerrp:

his men would be the C-Men

[20:17:52]

dustybin:

dropbox.com and xmarks has changed the way i use my computer, my desktop and bookmarks live in the cloud so it doesnt matter what computer or os im using :D

[20:18:35]

kormoc:

big bang theory++

[20:18:46]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: weave has done the same thing... except my bookmarks live on my own server, where only i have control over them

[20:18:57]

Nidhoegger:

hi

[20:19:02]

wagnerrp:

s/bookmarks/entire firefox state/

[20:19:07]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: interesting, i could not find a DIY solution

[20:19:14]

Nidhoegger:

is there someway to get mythgame to download autmatically the informations about the games?

[20:19:14]

iamlindoro:

I would like to know what the heck that has to do with MythTV, dustybin

[20:19:19]

Nidhoegger:

like coverart and stuff

[20:19:22]

iamlindoro:

no

[20:19:29]

Nidhoegger:

okay thanks

[20:19:36]

wagnerrp:

Nidhoegger: there are currently no grabbers for it, nor grabber specification

[20:19:37]

dustybin:

eeek im in the wrong channel :-S

[20:19:39]

Nidhoegger:

then i know what i am going to program :D

[20:19:52]

Nidhoegger:

i think its possibel to work on the DB directly, isnt it?

[20:20:09]

wagnerrp:

sure, preferably you would use the perl or python bindings

[20:20:37]

Nidhoegger:

i am not able to write perl/python

[20:20:40]

wagnerrp:

and if you decide to write it in bash, you will be subject to endless ridicule in here

[20:20:41]

Beirdo:

it's #non-sequitur, I guess

[20:20:53]

iamlindoro:

Or just wait for me to do it within MythGame properly

[20:21:01]

Nidhoegger:

and there is no way to have the coverart loaded automatically like naming it same as the romfile?

[20:21:20]

Nidhoegger:

when will u do it?

[20:21:43]

Beirdo:

depends on what's in it for him

[20:21:44]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:21:54]

Nidhoegger:

i would produce a local script that searches the artfiles and infos off the HDD, i dont think there are ressources for much systems on the web with coverart

[20:21:59]

Nidhoegger:

lol

[20:22:04]

iamlindoro:

Maybe .24, maybe .25

[20:22:27]

Nidhoegger:

so it will take a while ;)

[20:22:32]

iamlindoro:

4–8 months

[20:22:38]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: if youve got a grabber format in mind, i could whip something up with the python bindings so people can start writing grabbers now

[20:22:42]

Nidhoegger:

is there any doc on how the DB for mythgame works?

[20:23:07]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: I have a rough idea, but I was hoping to get generic metadata handling done first so that implementing it in MythGame is a howto example

[20:23:18]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: nothing really fixed yet, it will mimic MythVideo closely

[20:23:20]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[20:23:35]

wagnerrp:

ok

[20:23:47]

** kormoc is so tempted to send Nidhoegger myisam design docs... **

[20:24:30]

gbee:

kormoc: heh, I nearly cracked the same joke

[20:24:54]

wagnerrp:

Nidhoegger: if not perl/python, what would you be using?

[20:25:11]

Nidhoegger:

i guess c or c++, if i will get drunk enough ill use lazarus

[20:25:22]

wagnerrp:

fair enough

[20:25:27]

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[20:25:32]

gbee:

wow, I was going to guess Ruby, happy to be wrong in this instance

[20:25:41]

Beirdo:

hey!

[20:25:44]

wagnerrp:

not often you see external stuff written in a compiled language

[20:25:51]

Beirdo:

just for that, I'll go make ruby bindings :)

[20:25:55]

gbee:

Beirdo: love you ;)

[20:25:57]

Nidhoegger:

i am not capable of scripting languages. i will learn python as soon as i have time to do

[20:26:14]

kormoc:

erm

[20:26:16]

gbee:

hey C++ is fine by me

[20:26:22]

kormoc:

if you can do c or c++, you can do scripting languages

[20:26:28]

** Beirdo likes Ruby... I'll put it on my list **

[20:26:29]

wagnerrp:

and weve had a number of very vocal, and self righteous users do bad things in bash recently

[20:27:16]

Beirdo:

I need to go make a physical list, I'm forgetting stuff

[20:27:17]

Nidhoegger:

kormoc, never done something like this, the only scripting language i can speak is MSL

[20:27:32]

wagnerrp:

yeah, nothing wrong with c/c++, you may want to look into linking with the official myth libraries for easier database access

[20:28:01]

Nidhoegger:

maybe ill do it even with php *duck*

[20:28:08]

wagnerrp:

the qt-mysql stuff, and string handling in general, is actually quite nice

[20:28:10]

gbee:

Beirdo: my predujudice is typically uninformed, I've never looked at Ruby :)

[20:28:11]

kormoc:

Nidhoegger: php is a fine language!

[20:28:34]

Beirdo:

gbee: it has its issues, but so does every other scripting language :)

[20:29:12]

wagnerrp:

except bash, which is the perfect language for everything

[20:29:15]

** wagnerrp groans **

[20:29:52]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:29:56]

** Beirdo bashes wagnerrp **

[20:30:22]

gbee:

I react negatively to any new language which claims to be the next big thing, "_Another_ scripting language, what's wrong with the dozens we've already got" etc

[20:30:22]

Beirdo:

OK, let me see... nuvexport cleanup... ruby bindings, perl bindings, vaapi support

[20:30:32]

Beirdo:

what else was my list including? :)

[20:30:44]

wagnerrp:

the theme server

[20:30:47]

Beirdo:

gbee: yeah, Ruby's biggest issue is the ego factor for sure

[20:31:22]

sphery:

Vala!

[20:31:23]

Beirdo:

yeah, I'll try to help kormoc there :)

[20:31:29]

wagnerrp:

MythClub

[20:31:35]

Beirdo:

step 3... profit.

[20:31:38]

Beirdo:

oh wait

[20:31:41]

Beirdo:

wrong list

[20:32:04]

Beirdo:

gputrans resurrection should be on that list

[20:32:05]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:32:42]

wagnerrp:

well at least the decoding part would probably be fairly simple

[20:32:45]

kormoc:

gbee: to be fair, ruby is a few years older then php...

[20:32:45]

Beirdo:

quite sure I'm still missing stuff :)

[20:32:54]

Beirdo:

yeah, that part will be easier now for sure

[20:33:02]

Beirdo:

way easier than using Cg

[20:33:16]

gbee:

kormoc: aye, but it was relatively unknown until the whole rails era

[20:33:16]

wagnerrp:

yeah, its the 'Rails' stuff thats the 'new hotness'

[20:33:18]

Beirdo:

well, ffmpeg + Cg

[20:33:30]

sphery:

# Genie is a Vala dialect with a python-like syntax

[20:33:33]

Beirdo:

Rails is fun... for small DIY sites for home

[20:33:37]

sphery:

wow, there's a fun one

[20:33:53]

Beirdo:

I dunno that I'd be putting it into a LARGE deployment... ever

[20:33:56]

sphery:

Vala is C leveraging the GObject object system to bring more modern features to the language

[20:34:04]

Beirdo:

although github.com is doing OK

[20:34:09]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: wikipedia says theyre both from 1995

[20:34:13]

sphery:

and then someone decided to make Vala look like Python

[20:34:15]

sphery:

and created Genie

[20:34:24]

sphery:

talk about too many languages wrapped up

[20:34:27]

gbee:

I'll grant you this, Ruby has stayed 'hot' for longer than some of the other fads so there might be something to it

[20:34:28]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: huh, I was sure ruby was earlier

[20:34:34]

Beirdo:

sphery: and let it out of the bottle

[20:34:47]

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[20:34:53]

Beirdo:

I do like ruby, but it's garbage collection can be PAINFUL

[20:34:54]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:34:54]

kormoc:

gbee: well, if any other fad changed servers every 6 months, they might have stayed hotter too

[20:34:57]

sphery:

I think it's an evil Genie--not a funny one, like in Aladdin

[20:35:18]

wagnerrp:

of course python pre-dates 'em all

[20:35:19]

wagnerrp:

:P

[20:35:32]

Beirdo:

yeah, it was in the Garden of Eden.

[20:35:33]

Beirdo:

evil

[20:35:35]

Beirdo:

:)

[20:35:37]

sphery:

Python, offering apples to women in gardens since...

[20:35:40]

sphery:

hey, that was mine

[20:35:46]

Beirdo:

sorry

[20:36:12]

Beirdo:

I guess I'll add beirdobot fun to my list

[20:36:38]

wagnerrp:

looks like Beirdo's first rule of IRC is the same as wagnerrp's first rule of IRC

[20:36:44]

sphery:

heh

[20:37:24]

Beirdo:

whazzat?

[20:37:37]

Beirdo:

be a BOFH/ :)

[20:37:39]

wagnerrp:

you can always beat sphery to a response

[20:37:40]

iamlindoro:

The first rule of IRC is that you don't talk about IRC

[20:37:46]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:38:08]

sphery:

doesn't that rule violate itself?

[20:38:35]

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[20:39:07]

Beirdo:

I guess further down the list... mythgallery (perhaps)

[20:40:06]

Beirdo:

wonder if I can convince xris to think of mythrecipe ideas :)

[20:40:11]

Beirdo:

like he has time :)

[20:40:13]

kormoc:

sphery: http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html

[20:41:57]

Beirdo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Schmuck.jpg

[20:45:08]

** dustybin sets mode +b iamlindoro **

[20:45:21]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[20:45:25]

dustybin has been kicked from #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro (dustybin)

[20:45:34]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro

[20:45:36]

** kormoc cheers **

[20:45:41]

iamlindoro:

gotta remember to op yourself, yo

[20:45:42]

wagnerrp:

going... going.... GONE!

[20:45:58]

iamlindoro:

Can't shoot a gun you don't load

[20:46:05]

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[20:46:20]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[20:46:23]

** iamlindoro cracks his knuckles **

[20:47:32]

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[20:47:49]

jeffjeffdejeff:

anyone had trouble getting locks onto channels since the switchover?

[20:47:57]

jeffjeffdejeff:

(in uk)

[20:49:06]

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[20:51:52]

Beirdo:

OH, I did miss something :)

[20:52:10]

sphery:

kormoc: nice article

[20:52:54]

Beirdo:

there

[20:52:57]

Beirdo:

list updated

[20:53:15]

jams:

kormoc- make any interesting speed improvments with mythweb?

[20:53:22]

Beirdo:

mythweather scrapers added to list

[20:53:28]

jams:

like in the last few weeks?

[20:53:31]

Beirdo:

I knew there was something :)

[20:55:36]

iamlindoro:

There was a fix several weeks ago related to the socket changes

[20:55:46]

iamlindoro:

that sped it (back) up, but the slowdown was a regression

[20:55:55]

Beirdo:

oh

[20:56:06]

Beirdo:

that's another one... buildbot :)

[20:56:07]

Beirdo:

duh

[20:56:38]

jams:

maybe thats it

[20:57:44]

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[20:57:47]

kmdm:

evening all :) Don't suppose anyone has any ideas if I'm getting "libdvdread: Invalid IFO for title 5 (VTS_05_0.IFO)." from the internal dvd player but mplayer/vlc work fine (although they don't start from the fbi warnings etc, but jump straight to the menu so not a completely fair test...)

[20:57:48]

wagnerrp:

the event system required a 'wait' when first connecting to the backend, to flush out the first 'CLIENT_CONNECTED' event from the buffer

[20:58:24]

wagnerrp:

the fix a couple weeks ago was a change to the event system, and a different way of handling it in mythweb, to remove that one second wait on each connection

[20:59:31]

bradd_:

/quit

[20:59:33]

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[20:59:44]

Beirdo:

fail

[21:00:34]

kmdm:

lol

[21:01:06]

Beirdo:

no idea on DVD stuff, sorry

[21:01:21]

Beirdo:

I've never played DVDs in myth and never will

[21:01:32]

Beirdo:

I have a DVD player for that :)

[21:01:41]

wagnerrp:

ditto

[21:02:07]

Beirdo:

actually, I'll be getting a BluRay player instead after moving, but same difference

[21:02:41]

** wagnerrp was a late adopter of HDDVD **

[21:02:50]

jarle:

I keep getting channels that "are in conflict" when scanning for channels in mythtv, I'm not sure if the right thing is to ignore them, or just add them anyway? This is dvb-s on Thor 0.8w

[21:05:08]

kmdm:

Beirdo: don't suppose you happen to know where the option is where I can make it use vlc for the dvd player command instead? I can't for the life of me find it :-|

[21:05:21]

Beirdo:

no clue

[21:05:49]

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[21:10:55]

wagnerrp:

in the frontend settings

[21:11:24]

kmdm:

wagnerrp: aye, that's where I was looking but nevermind, found the setting in the settings table ;)

[21:11:37]

kmdm:

would much rather have the internal player work :(

[21:11:46]

wagnerrp:

utilities/settings --> setup --> media settings --> video settings --> player settings

[21:12:07]

kmdm:

aha, ta :)

[21:12:16]

Beirdo:

beer settings

[21:12:43]

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[21:12:56]

kmdm:

Just seeing if it can rip the dvd, so far looks promising... so it's just playback. :|

[21:13:54]

** wagnerrp loves the settings windows in arclight... first time ive actually used them **

[21:15:42]

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[21:17:48]

kmdm:

wagnerrp: don't suppose there's a way to get the DVDCSS_DEBUG=2 var into mythtv so that i get the output when running the internal player?

[21:18:05]

wagnerrp:

sounds like an environmental variable

[21:18:28]

wagnerrp:

(meaning you set it in your environment before running mythfrontend)

[21:18:36]

kmdm:

aye, tried that

[21:18:45]

kmdm:

didn't get what i expected out, but maybe it is what it is :)

[21:19:13]

Wicked:

say i want to convert recordings to something like xvid or x264...whats the best way to go about doing this? ive tried to set something up in the past...but it never worked right....

[21:19:26]

wagnerrp:

probably nuvexport

[21:19:39]

Beirdo:

that would be my bet too

[21:19:50]

Wicked:

id love to be able to transcode the recordings...in tact..and keep the flagged commercials...not cut them out...cuz sometimes its not right.

[21:19:58]

wagnerrp:

currently somewhat unmaintained

[21:20:02]

wagnerrp:

but thats going to change shortly

[21:20:04]

Wicked:

hmm ok. i cant recall what i used lasttime

[21:20:11]

Wicked:

mk2nuv

[21:20:15]

Wicked:

or something

[21:20:23]

Wicked:

or nuv2mkv

[21:20:29]

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[21:20:31]

Beirdo:

yeah, somewhat :) I'm doing what I can until the feature freeze is over, etc

[21:20:38]

Wicked:

ah

[21:20:56]

Beirdo:

no clue what script that is

[21:21:38]

Beirdo:

and the idea is you edit the commercial flags in the frontend before transcoding and cutting them (generally)

[21:22:10]

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[21:22:21]

Wicked:

yea

[21:22:54]

wagnerrp:

nuvexport is a rather huge perl program

[21:23:00]

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[21:23:02]

wagnerrp:

quite dwarfs anything ive got in the bindings

[21:23:17]

wagnerrp:

not likely any external script you were using were as all encompassing/capable

[21:23:27]

** kmdm grins – the dvd works if you're fast enough to open the menu and skip to the dvd root menu... guess one of the PGC's is broken =/ **

[21:23:38]

Beirdo:

it does so much :)

[21:23:46]

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[21:26:18]

Wicked:

hmm

[21:29:36]

Beirdo:

quiero cerveza

[21:29:59]

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[21:30:10]

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[21:34:41]

Beirdo:

soooo bored

[21:35:36]

gbee:

si! Una cerveza!

[21:38:30]

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[21:38:53]

gbee:

Golden Sheep

[21:39:09]

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[21:49:11]

Beirdo:

OK that's it

[21:49:21]

Beirdo:

screw work, I'm leaving 11 minutes early

[21:49:22]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:49:40]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v xris

[21:50:26]

Beirdo:

seeya on the flip side

[21:50:31]

** kormoc waves **

[21:50:45]

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[21:50:48]

wagnerrp:

when is the move?

[21:51:01]

Beirdo:

Last day is Apr 6.

[21:51:10]

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[21:51:10]

Beirdo:

moving Apr 12/13ish

[21:51:22]

Beirdo:

RSN :)

[21:51:30]

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[21:51:34]

Beirdo:

anyone in PR want a Yaris?

[21:51:59]

Beirdo:

no way in heck that thing's worth importing

[21:52:05]

wagnerrp:

'myth1 – CPU Usage'... Current: 600.17m

[21:52:12]

** wagnerrp thinks cacti is broken **

[21:52:24]

Beirdo:

heh

[21:52:30]

Beirdo:

0.6% isn't right?

[21:52:53]

wagnerrp:

that could be right

[21:52:57]

Beirdo:

or is that load avg?

[21:52:58]

wagnerrp:

but its reporting 600 million

[21:53:02]

Beirdo:

no

[21:53:08]

Beirdo:

m is milli

[21:53:12]

Beirdo:

M is mega

[21:53:14]

Beirdo:

no?

[21:53:14]

wagnerrp:

load average is bouncing between 0.0 and 0.0

[21:53:40]

wagnerrp:

it thats what its doing, those numbers could be reasonable

[21:53:46]

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[21:53:48]

wagnerrp:

but that is a TERRIBLE graph

[21:53:50]

Beirdo:

maybe

[21:53:56]

Beirdo:

anywayys, heading out :)

[21:54:05]

wagnerrp:

who's ever hear of milipercent

[21:54:41]

wagnerrp:

dropping characters, wonder if the batteries are giving out on my keyboard

[21:54:44]

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[21:57:10]

gbee:

no battery warning light?

[21:57:22]

wagnerrp:

no lights what-so-ever

[21:57:32]

wagnerrp:

it just eventually gives out

[21:57:36]

wagnerrp:

after several months of use

[21:58:41]

gbee:

mine has just one led, which is only illuminated in a pulsing red when the battery voltage drops, or green if you press the battery button the rest of the time

[21:59:15]

clever:

wagnerrp: ive got an odd problem with my cacti

[21:59:27]

clever:

one of the custom graphs has ceased to function after an update

[21:59:35]

gbee:

the caps/numlock lights are on little desktop thing that doubles as the receiver

[21:59:56]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i never managed to figure out how to get custom graphs working

[22:01:10]

clever:

sh conntrack /bin/cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/netfilter/ip_conntrack_count

[22:01:16]

clever:

i had added this to my snmpd.conf

[22:01:35]

clever:

then found the oid somehow and made a graph of it

[22:02:08]

Jay2k1:

so this morning from about 5:30 to 6:20, my mythtv box should've recorded stuff (and powered off afterwards). when i woke up and checked though, the box was still running. i switched on the tv and saw this: http://pub.jay2k1.com/screenshots/mythtv-back . . . awn-loop.png

[22:02:40]

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[22:02:42]

clever:

backend logs!

[22:02:42]

Jay2k1:

the records from this morning don't exist, so i guess it was a problem with shutting down before (last night)

[22:02:55]

Jay2k1:

coming

[22:04:17]

Jay2k1:

!pastebin

[22:04:20]

Jay2k1:

mh

[22:05:08]

** clever points at topic **

[22:06:16]

Jay2k1:

ah damn

[22:06:23]

Jay2k1:

my stupid client cuts it

[22:06:26]

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[22:06:52]

Jay2k1:

http://pastebin.com/vP1YY393

[22:07:06]

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[22:07:15]

Jay2k1:

so some sort of sql thing

[22:07:59]

clever:

#

[22:08:00]

clever:

Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)

[22:08:09]

clever:

your mysql database was down, so mythbackend couldnt start

[22:10:56]

clever:

without mysql, it cant read the settings

[22:11:03]

clever:

without the settings, it wont know how or when to turn itself off

[22:11:17]

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[22:11:56]

Jay2k1:

right

[22:13:16]

Jay2k1:

here, more detailed

[22:13:17]

Jay2k1:

http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1851894

[22:13:37]

Jay2k1:

from line 65 it tries to boot to record

[22:13:49]

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[22:13:49]

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[22:14:36]

Jay2k1:

so the question is, why couldn't the backend connect to the sql db

[22:16:33]

Jay2k1:

interestingly enough, there's absolutely no entry in messages/syslog from that time (5:30). there's "kernel logging stopped" on the shutdown before, shortly after midnight, and the next entry is from about an hour ago when i switched it on manually

[22:17:08]

Jay2k1:

but the fact that there are entries in the BE-log means it must have booted at least up to a point where the backend tried to start

[22:19:33]

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[22:46:23]

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[22:49:59]

oobe:

does mythvodka still build ok with .22

[22:50:03]

oobe:

cause im having trouble

[22:50:23]

Beirdo:

???

[22:50:45]

oobe:

do you wanna see a pastebin

[22:50:57]

Beirdo:

what the heck is mythvodka?

[22:51:10]

oobe:

its a plugin for streaming video

[22:51:24]

Beirdo:

never even heard of it

[22:55:52]

Beirdo:

you in UK or US?

[22:56:10]

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[22:57:04]

wagnerrp:

vodka = video-on-demand-killer-app

[22:57:09]

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[22:57:12]

wagnerrp:

its defunct, unmaintained

[22:57:17]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:57:17]

wagnerrp:

and never really worked that well

[22:57:21]

Beirdo:

so it seems

[22:57:31]

Beirdo:

and if it's to pull from BBC iPlayer, good luck

[22:58:51]

Beirdo:

vodka = what I should be drinking

[22:59:26]

JEDIDIAH__:

vodka... myth... mythbusters...

[23:00:10]

Beirdo:

anyways

[23:00:13]

wagnerrp:

basically, its superceeded by the more capable, and ToS compliant, mythnetvision

[23:00:22]

Beirdo:

:)

[23:00:31]

clever:

Jay2k1: dang dsl

[23:00:38]

wagnerrp:

oobe: ^^^

[23:00:51]

oobe:

hi

[23:00:52]

Jay2k1:

sorry?

[23:01:08]

oobe:

yea im not overly concerned about mythvodka

[23:01:14]

wagnerrp:

its included in the 0.23rc if you want to give that a whirl instead

[23:01:16]

oobe:

just wanted to see if i could build it

[23:01:23]

Beirdo:

you want vodka, drink some Grey Goose... if you want streaming video, use mythnetvision :)

[23:01:25]

oobe:

what is

[23:01:33]

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[23:01:40]

wagnerrp:

the line two above where i just pinged you

[23:01:56]

oobe:

yes i am looking forward to 23 but am waiting for official release

[23:02:15]

wagnerrp:

RC is practically official

[23:02:25]

oobe:

oh ok when did it go RC

[23:02:26]

wagnerrp:

and technically, you shouldnt be using the official tarball anyway

[23:02:32]

wagnerrp:

couple days ago

[23:04:11]

oobe:

yes i was waiting for .23 branch to appear first

[23:04:23]

oobe:

so there was less hassle for me

[23:04:37]

oobe:

i might do it tommorow

[23:10:36]

Beirdo:

why do today what you can put off to tomorrow?

[23:10:43]

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[23:11:34]

squish102:

wow wagnerrp, i was like wtf... RC of .23.... crazy, that is years early, then i read about shorter release schedules :)

[23:11:34]

wagnerrp:

procrastinators unite!... later...

[23:12:16]

wagnerrp:

squish102: yeah, but the month of freeze is killer

[23:13:15]

oobe:

yes but i actually will do it

[23:13:25]

oobe:

so its not procrastinating at all

[23:13:38]

oobe:

ppl upgrade months after release

[23:13:39]

iamlindoro:

Heh... hehehehehe

[23:13:40]

iamlindoro:

heheheehe

[23:13:54]

iamlindoro:

the *cough* alternative to MythTV that the four-letter folks are using

[23:13:56]

iamlindoro:

it's all perl

[23:14:11]

wagnerrp:

eh? thought it was mostly python

[23:14:11]

oobe:

i dont get it

[23:14:19]

Beirdo:

that might be preferable to all Qt

[23:14:34]

** iamlindoro quite likes Qt **

[23:14:50]

iamlindoro:

just pulled in like 100 perl packages

[23:14:53]

Beirdo:

no comment :)

[23:14:57]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:15:08]

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[23:15:12]

iamlindoro:

That said... it's config is very, very good

[23:15:17]

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[23:17:45]

squish102:

im still on .21... i wonder what I am missing? My system is so stable and is depended on by wife, i would hate to screw it up :(

[23:17:59]

QED__ is now known as christ_

[23:18:05]

wagnerrp:

stability

[23:18:06]

Beirdo:

*cough* wuss *cough*

[23:18:27]

wagnerrp:

and pretty-ness

[23:18:43]

wagnerrp:

and a revamped mythvideo plugin, and mythbrowser plugin

[23:19:13]

Beirdo:

and better support from devs

[23:19:15]

Beirdo:

:)

[23:19:30]

Beirdo:

as I doubt many people are gonna be supporting 0.21 at this point

[23:20:07]

wagnerrp:

vdpau, dvb-s2, hdpvr, hdhr multirec, new channel scanner, new themes, automatic prioritization (really? cool), switch to qt4.4,

[23:20:14]

** wagnerrp stops reading off the release notes **

[23:23:37]

Jay2k1:

no analog scanning anymore

[23:23:42]

Jay2k1:

*scnr*

[23:23:48]

Beirdo:

!trout Jay2k1

[23:23:48]

** MythLogBot slaps Jay2k1 with a trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[23:23:52]

Beirdo:

yes there is

[23:24:01]

Beirdo:

it was fixed like a week ago

[23:24:02]

wagnerrp:

there is now

[23:24:08]

Jay2k1:

:o

[23:24:10]

wagnerrp:

s/week/month... or two/

[23:24:22]

Jay2k1:

but... i'd have to run trunk?

[23:24:23]

Beirdo:

nah, it was a week/two max

[23:24:30]

wagnerrp:

correct

[23:24:33]

wagnerrp:

or 0.23

[23:24:45]

Jay2k1:

there won't be a backport to fixes then?

[23:24:51]

Beirdo:

or maybe my brain is screwed

[23:25:05]

Beirdo:

why would we backport while releasing?

[23:25:08]

Beirdo:

:)

[23:25:21]

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[23:25:21]

Beirdo:

just as a general question

[23:26:05]

wagnerrp:

3 weeks

[23:26:09]

Beirdo:

3?!

[23:26:14]

Jay2k1:

i wasn't exactly sure how far the... ok nvm

[23:26:14]

Beirdo:

OK, I'm on crack :)

[23:26:16]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:26:26]

Beirdo:

recently

[23:26:28]

Beirdo:

there

[23:26:42]

Jay2k1:

incase you mean release of 0.23 is in three weeks

[23:27:15]

Beirdo:

it is in RC right now, it shouldn't be too long

[23:27:32]

wagnerrp:

no, the analog scan fix was 3 weeks ago

[23:27:38]

Jay2k1:

ah heh

[23:27:53]

Jay2k1:

well i even think i've seen the bug (with status fixed)

[23:27:54]

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[23:28:35]

Jay2k1:

but i won't update to trunk when 0.23 final is coming soon

[23:29:25]

Jay2k1:

but then... yay... getting tv data from the epg of dvb-t (which has lousy image quality) and use it to record with the analog cable hauppauge pvr card

[23:29:41]

wagnerrp:

Jay2k1: well you shouldnt update to 0.23 final anyway

[23:30:31]

Jay2k1:

please explain

[23:30:49]

wagnerrp:

you should be running 0.23-fixes

[23:31:00]

Jay2k1:

:P

[23:31:09]

wagnerrp:

why we have a packaged release, im not really certain

[23:31:12]

Jay2k1:

that was kinda what i meant.

[23:31:16]

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[23:31:20]

wagnerrp:

maybe to facilitate some distro requirement

[23:32:18]

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[23:32:54]

Beirdo:

because we don't wanna be ffmpeg

[23:33:27]

wagnerrp:

i understand doing stable branches

[23:33:43]

wagnerrp:

but why we have a tarball, and then not recommend people use it....

[23:33:50]

Beirdo:

beats me

[23:34:07]

Beirdo:

they can use it if they want, but knowing it will NOT get any bug fixes

[23:34:25]

Beirdo:

if they want bug fixes... we have an app for that... er branch :)

[23:34:50]

Beirdo:

my goodness.

[23:34:54]

Beirdo:

svn up got nothing

[23:34:58]

Beirdo:

there's something new :)

[23:37:18]

k-man:

awesome .23rc is already in debian-multimedia

[23:39:03]

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[23:39:03]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[23:39:18]

Beirdo:

what the heck is the output API for weather scrapers?~!

[23:39:30]

Beirdo:

gbee: you in?

[23:39:36]

iamlindoro:

Think wagnerrp documented it a few months ago

[23:39:37]

iamlindoro:

in the wiki

[23:39:42]

wagnerrp:

(partially)

[23:39:48]

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[23:39:51]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythWeather_Grabber_Script_Format

[23:40:08]

wagnerrp:

was going to write up a grabber for that swedish website you found

[23:40:10]

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[23:40:19]

wagnerrp:

and wrote up the wiki page

[23:40:25]

wagnerrp:

but never got around to actually writing the grabber

[23:40:32]

Beirdo:

norwegian :)

[23:40:40]

Beirdo:

close enough for us North Americans :)

[23:40:42]

wagnerrp:

yr.no?

[23:40:45]

Beirdo:

yup

[23:40:49]

Beirdo:

.no = Norway

[23:40:53]

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[23:40:53]

Beirdo:

:)

[23:41:08]

Beirdo:

.se = Sweden. Just next door

[23:41:14]

wagnerrp:

yeah, couldnt remember the site initially

[23:41:24]

Beirdo:

I knew what ya ment

[23:41:43]

Beirdo:

but just in case someone Norwegian was on to take offense :) hehe

[23:43:30]

Beirdo:

OK, that doesn't seem too bad

[23:43:41]

highzeth:

*caugh*

[23:43:52]

Beirdo:

yes?

[23:44:24]

kormoc:

it's a offended Norwegian! RUN FOR THE HILLS!

[23:44:24]

Beirdo:

hehe, I should do it in ruby just to annoy people

[23:44:25]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:44:33]

highzeth:

not taking offence, out loud ;P

[23:44:56]

Beirdo:

nah, I'll stick with Perl.

[23:44:59]

Beirdo:

Pearl's hot

[23:45:08]

kormoc:

wget script.pl is pretty awesome

[23:45:15]

kormoc:

wget nuvexport.pl

[23:45:16]

wagnerrp:

makin' us install more interpreters?

[23:45:17]

bjd:

i've had Pearl

[23:45:28]

wagnerrp:

bjd: how was she?

[23:45:28]

highzeth:

Ive only had Marshall

[23:45:32]

bjd:

she wasn't that good

[23:45:38]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: that's why I ain't doin Ruby

[23:45:50]

kormoc:

a bit too salty

[23:45:56]

bjd:

it's all about python

[23:46:01]

highzeth:

Pearl? obviously I was thinking of Peavey, time for bed I think :X

[23:46:05]

Beirdo:

nah. Python can eat me

[23:46:20]

Beirdo:

better watch out, or it might do just that

[23:46:31]

highzeth:

you found the info needed for yr.no btw?

[23:46:40]

Beirdo:

yes

[23:46:59]

wagnerrp:

they provide an API, you just need to do a web scraper for the search

[23:47:17]

highzeth:

goody, yep, state owned, they opened the API a few years ago

[23:47:17]

Beirdo:

should be good to go, I think, between someone's translation, and the google translation of their scant docs :)

[23:47:23]

wagnerrp:

but their HTML is surprisingly clean, so it shouldnt be too difficult

[23:47:30]

Beirdo:

should be easy

[23:47:34]

Beirdo:

easier in Ruby :)

[23:47:36]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:47:42]

Beirdo:

Hpricot FTW

[23:47:45]

Beirdo:

but I'll make do

[23:47:59]

highzeth:

yr.no & storm.no are the biggest weather services in .no

[23:48:16]

Beirdo:

you need wi.no

[23:48:35]

Beirdo:

got a bunch in most US cities you can have

[23:49:01]

sphery:

yes.no

[23:49:11]

highzeth:

I got ohhh.no

[23:49:37]

Beirdo:

but you wanna log in from i.am.a.wi.no

[23:49:39]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:50:00]

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[23:50:16]

highzeth:

also a few more explisit ones I shall not mention in here heh

[23:50:38]

highzeth:

not a good idea to shop domains while bored

[23:50:59]

Beirdo:

you could make a good business model around por.no

[23:51:14]

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[23:51:25]

highzeth:

Im sure its taken

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