Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, March 2nd, 2010, 00:05 UTC

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Beirdo:

OK, exporting my database (from a now dead server) before upgrading (like a good boy)

[00:16:06]

Beirdo:

anyone up on the current DBSchemaVer? :)

[00:16:20]

wagnerrp:

trunk or -fixes?

[00:16:27]

Beirdo:

mine says 1194... just curious how ancient it is

[00:16:28]

Beirdo:

trunk

[00:16:43]

wagnerrp:

trunk is 1254

[00:16:47]

Beirdo:

hehe

[00:16:51]

Beirdo:

this is gonna be fun

[00:17:16]

wagnerrp:

looks like fixes is 1244

[00:17:44]

Beirdo:

*chuckle*

[00:17:57]

Beirdo:

this is gonna be one monster upgrade, I tell ya

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[00:18:27]

Beirdo:

I'll be shocked if I don't break something in the process (hence the DB backup)

[00:19:42]

jams:

heck of a way to spend $800 http://www.xoxide.com/tt-level-10.html

[00:20:12]

wagnerrp:

is that the thing with individual bays for each part?

[00:20:20]

wagnerrp:

where you only have the one side of the case

[00:20:56]

jams:

thats what it looks like, but i really don't know

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jamesd2:

jams i think it would look nice with a some nice large speakers that have a simular layout.. each drive is a spearate box, and a large metal pole in the back holding it all together..

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wagnerrp:

yeah, thats the one im thinking of

[00:23:55]

wagnerrp:

apparently those things are all individually cooled with some sort of heatpipe system

[00:24:07]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I think I'll stick with Antec

[00:24:12]

wagnerrp:

heh

[00:24:59]

wagnerrp:

i love my 180/182s... but i came across this thing a couple months ago

[00:25:11]

wagnerrp:

http://silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=FT02

[00:25:31]

wagnerrp:

probably would have picked that up instead of my current 182 if i had known about it at the time

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jamesd2:

here are the ones i was thinking up http://www.blogcdn.com/hd.engadget.com/media/ . . . epilogue.jpg

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highzeth:

Lian Li PC-343B is my next purchase, will merge the two file servers I got into that one. perfect with the chieftec backplanes I got. =)

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jolaren:

Any of you having problems with mythbuntu control center?

[00:36:01]

jolaren:

wont allow me to set a password for mythweb

[00:36:40]

wagnerrp:

try in #ubuntu-mythtv

[00:37:06]

fukdnsce1d:

excuse me if this is a bit of a noobie ? but if I'm only making small canges in code do i need to do ./configure or can i just go ahead and compile

[00:37:40]

jolaren:

wagnerrp, did not know of that channel thx

[00:41:02]

Beirdo:

it's mythtv-setup time

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Beirdo:

hehe

[00:41:26]

Beirdo:

warning: MythTV wants to upgrade your database from 1194 to 1254

[00:41:29]

Beirdo:

here goes ;)

[00:43:29]

jolaren:

Beirdo, famous last words

[00:45:05]

Beirdo:

so far so good

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Beirdo:

hahah

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Beirdo:

segfault

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Beirdo:

it did not appreciate having no capture cards or video sources

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Beirdo:

question for the wise: will it LIVE with no capture cards for now? ;)

[00:50:09]

fukdnsce1d:

i have set up a box with no capture cards and then added them later

[00:50:43]

Beirdo:

BAH

[00:50:51]

Beirdo:

pulse audio is running...

[00:50:52]

Beirdo:

hehe

[00:51:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Beirdo, Pulseaudio? We aren't going to get into that boondoggle again, are we?

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Beirdo:

blah blah

[00:51:22]

Beirdo:

it's running

[00:51:47]

Beirdo:

so I'll just go manually kill it, not like I have speakers on the box anyways

[00:53:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'm thinking of adding one to my headless backend

[00:53:34]

Beirdo:

Loading....

[00:53:38]

Beirdo:

OK then

[00:53:44]

Beirdo:

Watch Recordings.

[00:54:47]

Beirdo:

the question is... just what exactly is it waiting for?

[00:55:05]

Beirdo:

hahaha

[00:55:15]

Beirdo:

the backend server is NOT 192.168.1.3

[00:55:18]

Beirdo:

crud

[00:55:23]

Beirdo:

it used to be

[00:55:31]

Beirdo:

that's what I get for not clearing junk out

[00:57:46]

jolaren:

I have a really old capture card in my apartment.. I don't even know if it works

[00:57:54]

jolaren:

is it worht with those cards?

[00:58:04]

jolaren:

I'm thinkin to plug into the wall instead of the antenna i use for digital tv

[00:58:05]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Despite advisements from the wiki, I cleared out all the configuration settings and just kept the data.

[00:58:31]

Beirdo:

yay.

[00:58:37]

Beirdo:

tis working

[00:58:55]

Beirdo:

is there a key to show current bitrate/resolution/etc?

[00:59:17]

Beirdo:

yes, it's been that long :)

[01:00:01]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Not that I've ever noticed.

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[01:07:15]

Beirdo:

hmm, that would be a nice addition at some point

[01:07:41]

iamlindoro:

mark is working on the OSD rewrite as we speak, now might be the time to suggest it to him

[01:08:04]

Beirdo:

yeah, it would :)

[01:08:12]

iamlindoro:

Don't think he's ported the signal quality panel yet, that might be a good place to chuck it in

[01:08:46]

Beirdo:

it would be logical, yeah, as long as that works in the recording playback too, of course

[01:09:00]

Beirdo:

obviously the signal part is irrelevant at that point

[01:09:18]

Beirdo:

this is markk?

[01:09:26]

iamlindoro:

yeah

[01:09:55]

Beirdo:

cool

[01:10:17]

Beirdo:

I really need to buy a cheap set of speakers :)

[01:10:19]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:10:29]

Beirdo:

it's hell not having sound

[01:11:23]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Headphones?

[01:12:04]

Beirdo:

heh

[01:12:07]

Beirdo:

they are at work

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GadgetWisdomGuru:

Oh well

[01:12:46]

Beirdo:

got Corner Gas playing right now

[01:13:27]

Beirdo:

the video quality is decent figuring this is a Radeon R300

[01:14:27]

Beirdo:

mind you, this is SD tv too, MPEG2 from my PVR250s

[01:14:45]

[01:31:11]

Beirdo:

anyone recall the key to toggle closed captioning?

[01:32:18]

janneg:

t?

[01:32:32]

Beirdo:

thanks. been so long :)

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[01:32:51]

Beirdo:

heh, not even sure if ivtv captured CC back then

[01:32:51]

Beirdo:

heh

[01:33:47]

Beirdo:

oh that's funny

[01:34:13]

Beirdo:

the mythcenter theme doesn't show the YEAR of the recording

[01:34:15]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:34:53]

Beirdo:

OK, that's a setting. Fixed

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wagnerrp:

Beirdo: mythtv does not like running without a capture card

[01:40:37]

wagnerrp:

im not saying it wont work, more that its completely untested

[01:40:44]

Beirdo:

I know, generally speaking :)

[01:40:53]

wagnerrp:

if you dont have one to give it, best to give it a 'dummy' card

[01:40:59]

Beirdo:

I think I'll add the tuner, but haven't done so yet

[01:41:01]

wagnerrp:

create a couple seconds of mpeg

[01:41:08]

Beirdo:

there's an analog in there

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wagnerrp:

and point a 'mpeg encoder' card at the file

[01:41:17]

Beirdo:

ahh

[01:41:19]

Beirdo:

that I can do

[01:55:18]

Beirdo:

Oh looky what's in gmail's program policies as forbidden:

[01:55:21]

Beirdo:

Illegally transmit another's intellectual property or other proprietary information without such owner's or licensor's permission

[01:55:24]

Beirdo:

Use Gmail to violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others

[01:55:28]

Beirdo:

Promote or encourage illegal activity

[01:56:01]

Beirdo:

Send, upload, distribute or disseminate or offer to do the same with respect to any unlawful, defamatory, harassing, abusive, fraudulent, infringing, obscene, or otherwise objectionable content

[01:56:19]

Beirdo:

there's 4 things buddy boy is violating (or potentially violating)

[02:01:51]

** sphery is raining on a MythTV user's parade **

[02:02:08]

sphery:

Poor guy who thinks that MythTV is saving him $2160/yr (the cost of his cable subscription).

[02:02:43]

sphery:

The only thing saving him $2160/yr is his decision to forgo cable TV service and do without the channels it provides.

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wagnerrp:

?

[02:13:01]

Beirdo:

argh

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[02:13:29]

Beirdo:

so I put in an IVTV source pointing to a dummy MPEG2 file (sound right, wagnerrp?)

[02:13:37]

Beirdo:

but it won't let me attach a source to it

[02:13:56]

wagnerrp:

thats what ive heard to do

[02:14:01]

wagnerrp:

never actually done it myself

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[02:17:04]

sphery:

wagnerrp: "Full alsa sound" thread at http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010 . . . .html#282822 , specifically my latest post at http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010-March/282822.html

[02:17:12]

Beirdo:

ok, screw this ;)

[02:17:21]

Beirdo:

I'll configure the analog tuner that's in there

[02:18:16]

sphery:

Beirdo: the mythtv-setup stuff doesn't allow you to configure the test/dummy recorders

[02:18:24]

Beirdo:

there

[02:18:32]

Beirdo:

yeah, seems that way

[02:18:40]

Beirdo:

there IS an analog tuner in the machine

[02:18:41]

sphery:

since they were meant to be used by devs, they require some outside-the-ui finessing

[02:18:41]

Beirdo:

heh

[02:18:51]

Beirdo:

so it can be the source I never use

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wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah... i didnt get that one

[02:20:15]

sphery:

Beirdo: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/274285#274285

[02:20:18]

wagnerrp:

why couldnt get just turn the one volume up to full

[02:20:25]

wagnerrp:

and control it with the master volume

[02:20:44]

wagnerrp:

rather, i did get that one, i didnt understand that one

[02:21:11]

Beirdo:

ahhhh

[02:21:16]

Beirdo:

nice, thanks

[02:21:19]

sphery:

you don't understand my point that choosing to use MythTV doesn't save you the cost of a cable subscription?

[02:21:37]

wagnerrp:

no, i dont understand his original question about needing multiple volume controls

[02:22:07]

sphery:

Beirdo: more, but older (and more dated) info: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/189003#189003

[02:22:30]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ah... I see. Master generally doesn't control volume for surround channels

[02:22:51]

sphery:

the sound cards for which it does are very rare

[02:23:01]

wagnerrp:

well that seems broken

[02:23:43]

sphery:

talk to Intel

[02:23:49]

sphery:

AC'97 + HDA :)

[02:24:22]

sphery:

(not arguing with you--as it's not at all what users expect--but just saying that's the way it works)

[02:25:22]

sphery:

Beirdo: sorry, that second post wasn't the one I was thinking of

[02:26:39]

sphery:

Beirdo: this is the one I wanted: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/217058#217058

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Beirdo:

thanks.

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wagnerrp:

crap....

[02:35:38]

wagnerrp:

seems im still getting recording issues with my HDHR under freebsd

[02:36:04]

wagnerrp:

they crap out after 20–30 seconds

[02:36:23]

Beirdo:

OK, xbmc will play with audio, so at least I'll know if I have audio

[02:36:54]

Beirdo:

although it really does NOT like being in the background

[02:36:56]

Beirdo:

hahah

[02:37:02]

Beirdo:

like a skipping record

[02:37:17]

wagnerrp:

i guess my MBE is going tunerless once again

[02:37:42]

wagnerrp:

teach me to do more than a cursory test before putting things into play

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wagnerrp:

oddly enough, the backend still thinks it's recording

[02:38:38]

wagnerrp:

its just not getting any data

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Beirdo:

ick. I don't like xbmc

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Beirdo:

AV sync is atrocious

[02:43:49]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I have some AV sync issues under MythTV

[02:44:36]

Beirdo:

well, I know these particular files are fine. ivtv recordings from years back

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[03:08:53]

hoban:

hello. I am trying to configure mythtv as a backend to simply serve up video files that already exist on disk, I have set storage directories to point to the directories where my videos are stored, but when I start mythfrontend to test, I see no videos to watch. Any ideas?

[03:09:13]

[R]:

hoban: you have to scan

[03:09:15]

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[03:10:11]

hoban:

[R], with mythfilldatabase ? because that seemed to only want to scan a tv listing service

[03:10:21]

[R]:

hit menu

[03:10:25]

[R]:

when you are in mythvideo

[03:10:30]

hoban:

the frontend?

[03:11:23]

[R]:

yes

[03:11:28]

[R]:

it helps when you read the documentation

[03:11:55]

hoban:

I read the documentation that came with my distro (arch) and now I'm here

[03:12:14]

[R]:

what does your distros documentation gonna do with telling you how to use myth

[03:12:23]

sphery:

hoban: you have to go to Media Library|Watch Videos, then hit M for MENU then Scan

[03:13:13]

hoban:

sphery, thank you, I am not given the option to scan though.

[03:13:34]

sphery:

this is MythTV 0.22-fixes?

[03:13:36]

** Beirdo realizes he didn't include any of the plugins **

[03:13:45]

Beirdo:

no wonder it looks so bare

[03:13:51]

sphery:

hoban: and it has to be Watch Videos, not Watch Recordings

[03:13:52]

hoban:

I can "change group filter" "change group view" "change group password" "add this group to playlist" and "help (status icons)"

[03:13:58]

sphery:

You're in Watch Recordings

[03:13:59]

hoban:

ah, so I need a plugin then?

[03:14:06]

sphery:

You need MythVideo

[03:14:15]

hoban:

ok, I will look into that. thanks!

[03:14:26]

sphery:

MythTV is primarily designed for TV, though

[03:14:39]

sphery:

if all you want is a media server, there are probably much better choices for that

[03:14:47]

hoban:

right. I will be using it for tv at some future time once I buy an HD tuner

[03:14:48]

hoban:

:)

[03:15:07]

sphery:

until then, you'll be using frontend plugins

[03:15:10]

hoban:

as I understand it though, MythTV does a pretty good job transcoding on the fly does it not?

[03:15:25]

sphery:

but if you're going to do the TV recording thing, Myth is a great solution

[03:15:35]

sphery:

Myth doesn't transcode anything on the fly, so no

[03:16:15]

sphery:

the closest is a hack in MythWeb that allows it to spawn ffmpeg to transcode a file to Flash for "streaming" the video across the web

[03:16:29]

sphery:

but it's a bad hack and has a lot of constraints--it wasn't even meant to be used as is

[03:16:38]

hoban:

oh, well that's unfortunate. so it will just stream whatever format it is over upnp (in my case) and it's up to my ps3 to playback

[03:16:46]

sphery:

right

[03:17:04]

sphery:

assuming you can make MythVideo videos work with UPnP and PS3 through Myth...

[03:17:13]

sphery:

some have claimed success, others not so muhc

[03:17:17]

hoban:

hmm...maybe it's back to searching for a good upnp server then. I've had issues with mediatomb that I was hoping to fix with mythtv

[03:18:21]

hoban:

alright, I'll go back to searching. Thanks!

[03:19:36]

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[03:36:54]

Beirdo:

mythvideo schema upgrade ain't workin

[03:37:31]

Beirdo:

1016->1017 is complaining that videocountry doesn't exist

[03:40:16]

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[03:43:01]

J-e-f-f-A:

UGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Mythbackend died sometime this afternoon and now I've missed 24... ugh... I guess I'll have to watch it online in a day or two now...

[03:44:14]

** J-e-f-f-A mumbles under his breath... **

[03:47:01]

sphery:

Beirdo: I don't have details on why it fails, but it seems there was an oversight due to the million-and-one possible upgrade paths that could have been taken for MythVideo DB schema due to the integration of MythVideo and MythDVD. It almost always works properly, but for some (very few) users, some upgrades are missed. My recommendation is http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/406462#406462 .

[03:47:45]

Beirdo:

ahhh

[03:47:49]

Beirdo:

I missed a few :)

[03:47:52]

sphery:

Beirdo: now is the perfect time to do that, too--as chances are you need to clear out all your pre-MythVideo-Storage-Groups-support video metadata to configure things for the new capabilities

[03:48:01]

Beirdo:

yup

[03:48:12]

sphery:

yeah, gotta get all of that, including the 3 schema version settings

[03:48:16]

wagnerrp:

sphery: not true

[03:48:18]

sphery:

otherwise, it won't recreate stuff

[03:48:26]

wagnerrp:

well...sorta not true

[03:48:50]

wagnerrp:

next time you scan, it will hash all your existing content

[03:49:10]

wagnerrp:

and then if you switch over to storage groups, it will rehash, and match up the 'new' content with your existing entries

[03:49:12]

wagnerrp:

however

[03:49:33]

sphery:

OK, then let me say, "Now is the perfect time to do it so you can get rid of all the stolen IMDb data in your database and have a ToS-clean MythVideo DB" :)

[03:49:41]

wagnerrp:

the scanner will not process existing content for season/episode/subtitle

[03:50:14]

Beirdo:

hehe

[03:50:15]

wagnerrp:

so if you dont flush all your data (or otherwise do a bit of sql tinkering on your own), you wont get the new TV show handling ability

[03:50:36]

sphery:

cool... I didn't know any of the details, but had gotten the impression that starting clean is often easier/better for the new MV

[03:51:20]

sphery:

and, with jamu, you can do batch lookups on all your videos after you scan, so it shouldn't be a lot of work.

[03:52:13]

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[03:52:43]

wagnerrp:

well, depending on how much you have, it may be easier to just use the 'w' button

[03:52:58]

wagnerrp:

sphery: anyway, you were right... just not for the reasons you thought

[03:54:07]

Beirdo:

still borked

[03:54:25]

wagnerrp:

just dump all mythvideo tables

[03:54:30]

Beirdo:

I did

[03:54:38]

Beirdo:

it gets struck on 1016->1017

[03:55:02]

Beirdo:

it's complaining that dvdbookmark doesn't exist

[03:55:09]

Beirdo:

heh, how lame

[03:55:14]

Beirdo:

let me try this again

[03:55:17]

wagnerrp:

video(?metadata)(?[cast|genre|country]) and filemarkup, and possibly some of the dvd stuff

[03:55:28]

wagnerrp:

AND you have to flush the mythvideo schema key from the settings table

[03:55:34]

wagnerrp:

i dont recall the name off it off hand

[03:55:36]

Beirdo:

I did

[03:55:38]

Beirdo:

I think

[03:55:46]

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[03:58:37]

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[03:59:12]

sphery:

the approach in that post I linked works

[04:00:16]

sphery:

I just did it and it worked fine

[04:00:16]

Beirdo:

argh

[04:00:27]

Beirdo:

what's the schema for dvdbookmark?

[04:00:35]

Beirdo:

I think I deleted one too many

[04:00:36]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:00:52]

Beirdo:

or better yet, what should I delete so it regenerates it?

[04:01:32]

sphery:

Beirdo: if you copy/paste the command at: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/406462#406462 , it should work for you

[04:01:58]

sphery:

(you may have to backspace to make sure EOF is alone on the line without a space or it won't end the here document)

[04:02:07]

Beirdo:

well, I deleted ONE table too many

[04:02:11]

Beirdo:

and now it's barfing

[04:02:13]

Beirdo:

sigh

[04:02:23]

sphery:

ahh

[04:02:35]

Beirdo:

dvdbookmark

[04:02:54]

sphery:

that's a MythTV table, not MythVideo

[04:03:01]

sphery:

so mythtv/libs/libmythtv/dbcheck.cpp

[04:03:07]

Beirdo:

gracias

[04:03:29]

Beirdo:

I was thinking "all the dvd ones..."

[04:03:31]

Beirdo:

oops

[04:03:37]

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[04:03:39]

sphery:

note that you'll have to do all the upgrades to it to include the charset conversion, etc

[04:03:51]

sphery:

hold on--I'll get you the create table for it

[04:05:31]

sphery:

this one is for mythtv schema ver 1254 (should be current trunk): http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1818421

[04:06:07]

Beirdo:

Shoulda been more careful. Thanks :) Let me slap that back in

[04:06:17]

sphery:

looks like it hasn't changed since 0.22 (specifically since the utf-8 conversion)

[04:07:22]

Beirdo:

MUCH better :)

[04:07:22]

sphery:

yeah, it's easy to confuse that one with MythDVD tables--it's kind of straddling the boundary

[04:12:35]

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[04:18:59]

kormoc:

Anyone recall if there's a way to turn on menu-wrap yet? (up at the first element warps to the last element)

[04:19:59]

wagnerrp:

themer decided

[04:37:26]

kormoc:

ahh

[04:38:25]

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[04:39:26]

wagnerrp:

oh great... now are days are shorter

[04:39:30]

wagnerrp:

way to go Chile

[04:39:59]

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[04:41:23]

jamesd2:

wagnerrp, do you think mythtv will need a patch now to cope with the time difference?

[04:44:41]

wagnerrp:

sure... as soon as CMOS clocks get accurate to within one microsecond over the course of a single day

[04:45:11]

wagnerrp:

(by that i mean no, not that there would be anything in mythtv to change anyway)

[04:46:40]

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[04:46:42]

sphery:

So do you think they're going to shorten the good shows in primetime to make everything fit?

[04:46:56]

wagnerrp:

have to make room for those ads

[04:47:03]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[04:47:29]

wagnerrp:

any fat people in a hot tub

[04:47:58]

sphery:

you mean the "when the moment is right" commercials?

[04:48:07]

jamesd2:

but our wives and girlfriends could possibly miss 1 microsecond of there soap operas. and of course it would only happen on the most important show of the week, where a main star is died and resurectted for the 35th time this decade causing them to bitch at us all for us to download the show off of network.com or hulu.

[04:48:15]

wagnerrp:

no one wants them to shorten Hell's Loser Bachelor

[04:48:34]

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[04:48:51]

sphery:

oh, those shows

[04:49:59]

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[04:51:57]

wagnerrp:

in other news, oxygenation may replace carbonation in some liquor, as it apparently helps prevent hangovers

[04:53:57]

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[04:58:36]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:58:51]

Beirdo:

I'd prefer my vodka un-gassy, thanks

[05:00:48]

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[05:00:51]

kormoc:

Dude!

[05:00:59]

kormoc:

Carbonated vodka is the bomb!

[05:01:18]

clever:

maybe literaly

[05:01:36]

clever:

you now have flamable liquids with tiny oxygen bubbles embeded inside it

[05:02:10]

wagnerrp:

so... Apple Mail needs to be banned from the ML, and Tim Raphael stabbed in the face

[05:02:33]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:03:07]

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[05:03:56]

wagnerrp:

html mailing, with no 'in-reply-to' field to facilitate proper threading

[05:04:06]

wagnerrp:

at least hes not top posting... :P

[05:04:39]

Beirdo:

just for that, I'll top post :)

[05:04:40]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:05:13]

Beirdo:

sorry, I have to be a jerk SOMETIMES

[05:06:33]

wagnerrp:

personally, i have no problem with top-posting

[05:06:38]

wagnerrp:

i have a problem with mixed posting

[05:06:56]

wagnerrp:

if the rest of the thread is bottom posted... DONT ADD YOUR CRAP TO THE TOP

[05:07:02]

Beirdo:

yeah

[05:07:08]

wagnerrp:

i mean thats just common sense

[05:07:08]

Beirdo:

especially not a "me too"

[05:08:11]

Beirdo:

I'm actually pleasantly surprised how well this Radeon R300 is behaving

[05:08:29]

Beirdo:

although the GART is definitely not Scottish.

[05:08:46]

wagnerrp:

the 300 is the Xxxx series?

[05:08:50]

Beirdo:

it keeps crashing on me for no good reason and dumping me back to the prompt

[05:08:55]

Beirdo:

I think so

[05:09:00]

wagnerrp:

or the older 9xxx?

[05:09:25]

Beirdo:

01:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon R300 [FireGL X1] (Secondary) (rev 80)

[05:09:32]

wagnerrp:

no, its the older 9000 series

[05:09:37]

Beirdo:

oops, that's the second head :)

[05:09:38]

Beirdo:

heh

[05:09:42]

Beirdo:

anyways, whatever

[05:10:03]

Beirdo:

it's working surprisingly well for a piece of crap

[05:10:27]

wagnerrp:

that was a great card 'back in the day'

[05:10:38]

sphery:

Scottish GART?

[05:10:42]

Beirdo:

yeah

[05:10:54]

Beirdo:

if it ain't Scottish... it's crrrrrrap!

[05:10:58]

sphery:

heh

[05:11:04]

wagnerrp:

youre probably back at the point where the 'radeon' driver works better than fglrx

[05:11:05]

Beirdo:

this GART is definitely not Scottish

[05:11:35]

sphery:

Yeah, for anything but the most current, radeon or radeonhd is a much better choice

[05:11:39]

sphery:

IME, that is

[05:11:51]

Beirdo:

yup, it's radeon that is in the modules list

[05:11:58]

sphery:

they also EOL the cards way too soon at ATI/AMD

[05:12:28]

Beirdo:

the CC is flickery though

[05:12:31]

sphery:

and you can't do fglrx on x86_64 (unless it's multilib)

[05:12:45]

Beirdo:

I'm playing on a CRT monitor, BTW for now

[05:13:32]

sphery:

yeah, I don't have radeon on any of my Myth boxes, but on my radeon-containing boxes, using xine or mplayer with any OSD or text overlaid gives flickers (mainly when it appears and disappears)

[05:13:48]

Beirdo:

sucky

[05:13:53]

sphery:

with CC, text is constantly appearing and disappearing, so...

[05:14:05]

Beirdo:

but I don't have an AGP nvidia card handy :)

[05:14:21]

sphery:

I think it has to do with the way they're doing the Xv in it--using the 3D hardware

[05:14:26]

Beirdo:

and I'm pretty sure that's an AGP slot in there

[05:14:27]

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[05:14:36]

Beirdo:

yeah

[05:14:45]

sphery:

have you tried using the OpenGL renderer just for kicks?

[05:14:59]

sphery:

might actually work without flicker (as much as the OpenGL renderer works, that is)

[05:15:16]

Beirdo:

I have it on OpenGL right now actually

[05:15:29]

Beirdo:

probably part of the reason it craps out sometimes ;)

[05:15:30]

sphery:

assuming the drivers have GL support for your card...

[05:16:35]

Beirdo:

I think they do. Let me try the Qt painter and see if it's any different

[05:17:19]

Beirdo:

only massively

[05:17:20]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:17:29]

Beirdo:

the background color changed?

[05:17:42]

sphery:

I'm talking about the video renderer in the Playback Profiles

[05:17:54]

Beirdo:

yah, crap

[05:17:55]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:18:09]

Beirdo:

One sec, let's wait for this to wake up

[05:18:13]

sphery:

background color changing may be due to ARGB

[05:18:29]

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[05:19:06]

sphery:

Beirdo: export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 ; mythfrontend -O ThemePainter=qt

[05:19:18]

sphery:

if that works, it's the ARGB visuals causing color problems with Qt painter

[05:19:47]

sphery:

but the OpenGL Video Renderer instead of the Xv Video Renderer may make the flickers for CC go away

[05:20:41]

sphery:

(really all you need is the XLIB env var mentioned--the -O ThemePainter=qt isn't something you'd normally run with, but is an easy way to ensure you're using the one you're trying to test)

[05:20:58]

sphery:

and you have to restart mythfrontend in the environment with the variable for it to have any effect

[05:21:05]

Beirdo:

green background now

[05:21:11]

Beirdo:

was magenta

[05:21:26]

Beirdo:

and it's "please wait" on me

[05:21:50]

Beirdo:

oh hehe

[05:21:55]

Beirdo:

I told it to watch tv

[05:21:59]

Beirdo:

!trout

[05:21:59]

** MythLogBot dumps a bucket of trout onto Beirdo **

[05:22:29]

sphery:

sounds like the OpenGL support may not be up to snuff, yet, in those drivers or perhaps it just changed the timing enough to trigger the "stuck-on-Please-Wait" race condition bug

[05:22:47]

Beirdo:

nah, it was my stupidity

[05:22:48]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:23:23]

sphery:

have to say I'm impressed with the OpenGL support on the drivers: http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature

[05:23:31]

sphery:

had no idea they'd made that much progress

[05:23:39]

Beirdo:

I have nothing hooked to the tuner, and so liveTV is borked

[05:23:51]

Beirdo:

and a null channel lineup

[05:23:54]

sphery:

looks also like radeonhd is dead in the water: http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonhd%3Afeature

[05:23:57]

Beirdo:

well, a dummy one

[05:24:07]

sphery:

yeah, that won't work well :)

[05:24:14]

Beirdo:

hehe, I know

[05:24:31]

Beirdo:

I just wanted it to come up so I could do playback... for now

[05:24:43]

Beirdo:

and there IS a tuner there

[05:24:46]

Beirdo:

so. meh

[05:25:19]

Beirdo:

fun times

[05:26:53]

sphery:

And the strange thing is that some people have fun with MythTV by just watching TV shows... Seems a lot miss out on all the fun of testing various random driver/X/MythTV configurations to see what happens.

[05:27:17]

Beirdo:

hehe :)

[05:27:41]

Beirdo:

I THINK this capture is 480i

[05:27:59]

Beirdo:

but with no resolution info... :)

[05:28:21]

Beirdo:

and thankfully it's silent

[05:28:27]

Beirdo:

House... in Spanish

[05:29:36]

Beirdo:

let's try metallurgy

[05:29:48]

Beirdo:

OK, we need a LOT more non-widescreen themes :)

[05:29:49]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:30:18]

Beirdo:

or make it letterbox em

[05:31:32]

Beirdo:

I'd be happy with letterboxing on a 4:3 display

[05:34:55]

Captain_Murdoch:

Now that might be a good patch for someone to work on. :)

[05:35:18]

Beirdo:

OMG, did I just volunteer myself for even more work

[05:35:23]

Beirdo:

dangit :)

[05:35:55]

Beirdo:

well, the fit-pc isn't here yet, so I guess the vaapi is gonna wait anyways

[05:36:03]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: assuming 4:3 video is allowed to go full screen

[05:36:23]

Beirdo:

yeah, when fullscreen, letterbox the widescreen themes

[05:36:34]

Beirdo:

when in a window, tough beans :)

[05:36:34]

wagnerrp:

actually, you could do that right now

[05:36:46]

Captain_Murdoch:

we already support different res for playback and GUI, so it doesn't sound that far-fetched.

[05:36:49]

wagnerrp:

crop down the display to your desired letterbox

[05:36:59]

wagnerrp:

and yeah... different res for playback

[05:38:00]

Beirdo:

Well, I'll take a look, but I know I can't do it tonight :) being 1:30am and all :)

[05:38:17]

Captain_Murdoch:

actually, I wonder if that's actually possible now. if you specify a playback size of full-screen and a GUI size of a smaller 16:9 window with a Y offset, it should draw the GUI in a window in the middle of the scrren. then if you set your X background to solid black it might have the desired effect.

[05:38:23]

Beirdo:

I'm glad I have what seems to be a working myth setup, although flaky

[05:38:31]

sphery:

Beirdo: Arclight should look good in 4:3

[05:38:43]

wagnerrp:

you and your crazy 'im in the middle of the atlantic' time

[05:38:53]

Beirdo:

arclight causes canniptions with this video card

[05:38:58]

Beirdo:

crashy crashy :)

[05:39:18]

Beirdo:

hmmm, Captain_Murdoch, let me try that

[05:40:14]

sphery:

heh, I thought iamlindoro only put the theme code that crashes mythfrontend, uses 212% CPU, and reduces a system to a smoldering slag heap in Graphite. Didn't know he brought any of that into Arclight.

[05:42:01]

wagnerrp:

ugh... ive been putting off writing this event handling for over a day now

[05:42:06]

wagnerrp:

i should get to it

[05:43:02]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, maybe that explains why those Arclight background images never finish drawing on my screen, maybe it's crashing my video card and the images never get fully decoded. :)

[05:43:04]

sphery:

you have much to learn from the masters, wagnerrp

[05:43:04]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[05:43:10]

Beirdo:

it ALMOST worked

[05:43:13]

sphery:

I measure my "been putting offs" in years :)

[05:43:22]

Beirdo:

the y offset did squat

[05:43:37]

Beirdo:

I put 1024x576 with offset of 0x96

[05:43:46]

Captain_Murdoch:

Beirdo, try a X of 1 to see if that has any effect.

[05:43:47]

Beirdo:

and it's right at the top of the fullscreen anyways

[05:43:50]

Beirdo:

k

[05:43:58]

Captain_Murdoch:

is this trunk or -fixes?

[05:44:08]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: lol... Are you sure you upgraded to ArclightPro--which has the non-pixelated versions of the images?

[05:44:17]

wagnerrp:

sphery: well ive put it off for a couple weeks now

[05:44:20]

sphery:

It was the best $50 I ever spent

[05:44:23]

kormoc:

there's a pro?!?!

[05:44:24]

Captain_Murdoch:

I position my window on my dev box.

[05:44:25]

Beirdo:

no difference

[05:44:28]

Beirdo:

and trunk

[05:44:29]

wagnerrp:

i just finally decided how i wanted to handle it yesterday

[05:44:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, I lost the paypal address.

[05:44:36]

wagnerrp:

just need to write it

[05:44:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

Beirdo, is that "run frontend in a window" box checked or unchecked?

[05:45:00]

sphery:

kormoc: yeah, even comes with a USB dongle with the "iamlindoro, inc." company logo on it

[05:45:05]

Beirdo:

let me check

[05:45:06]

kormoc:

nice

[05:45:09]

Captain_Murdoch:

try reversing it.

[05:45:17]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you mean you didnt get the 'turbo ultra' version? the one with fonts for wold domination

[05:45:21]

wagnerrp:

s/wold/world/

[05:45:39]

sphery:

of course, you can only use it on a system with the dongle--and it has to stay attached... I tried to cheat him by using one dongle with all my frontends, but it didn't work.

[05:45:51]

kormoc:

tisk tisk tisk

[05:45:52]

sphery:

I figured, "Well, I never agreed to the ToS, so I can steal it."

[05:46:01]

Captain_Murdoch:

wagnerrp, that's why sphery put int he auto-font-loading code, cause he's secretly helping with that domination.

[05:46:02]

kormoc:

ooh, in that case, carry on

[05:46:08]

Beirdo:

why don't I see it? ;)

[05:46:35]

sphery:

wagnerrp: wow, I didn't see that option. I wonder if I can upgrade my upgrade of it I have to buy a whole new copy.

[05:46:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

you need Arclight2xml

[05:47:06]

wagnerrp:

erm... isnt it already in xml?

[05:47:17]

Captain_Murdoch:

joke from the mailing list

[05:47:21]

wagnerrp:

i know...

[05:47:25]

Captain_Murdoch:

:)

[05:47:40]

Beirdo:

Captain_Murdoch: I can't find the setting... I must be blind

[05:47:49]

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[05:47:50]

sphery:

I hear there's a bash script now that makes it so I'm no longer forced to use MythVideo.

[05:47:57]

sphery:

Beirdo: something about window borders

[05:48:01]

wagnerrp:

oh yeah, that one was great

[05:48:22]

sphery:

Beirdo: Use window border: Toggles between windowed and borderless operation.

[05:48:25]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, yeah, I forgot it's name and description don't match

[05:48:26]

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[05:48:27]

wagnerrp:

honestly, who the hell spends THAT much time in bash before giving up and moving to a more powerful language

[05:48:36]

sphery:

Beirdo: under appearance

[05:48:57]

Beirdo:

that worked

[05:49:10]

Beirdo:

so in fullscreen, the offsets are useless

[05:49:42]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, some window managers ignore them I believe when the fullscreen hint is set. there's a ticket about htat, not sure if the patch went in or not yet.

[05:50:02]

Beirdo:

K.

[05:50:12]

Beirdo:

using ubuntu default crap right now

[05:50:23]

Beirdo:

should switch to ratpoison :)

[05:50:49]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: yeah, the best of those is the one where the DB name is exactly opposite the way the setting is used... Trying to remember which one...

[05:51:00]

sphery:

Beirdo: it's been fixed in trunk

[05:51:20]

** wagnerrp is amazed that the bindings have grown to 4500 lines **

[05:51:24]

Beirdo:

ummm, I'm running trunk

[05:51:32]

Beirdo:

so not sure it is :)

[05:51:49]

sphery:

Beirdo: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/23578

[05:51:57]

sphery:

23578+ ?

[05:52:23]

Beirdo:

let me check

[05:52:54]

** sphery looks to see if you're triggering another case where Qt::WindowFullScreen is set when it shouldn't be **

[05:53:03]

Beirdo:

I'm at 23638

[05:53:43]

sphery:

and you've specified sizes for GUI width/height and offsets for X and Y?

[05:53:50]

Beirdo:

yeah

[05:53:59]

Beirdo:

x offset 0 or 1, no difference

[05:54:36]

sphery:

and it starts out in upper left or it goes there after playback?

[05:54:43]

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[05:55:02]

Beirdo:

starts there right after changing the settings

[05:55:39]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:55:40]

sphery:

I'm guessing that's because we don't remove the full screen hint after changes to the settings

[05:55:43]

sphery:

try a restart

[05:55:46]

Beirdo:

xrandr not good.

[05:55:47]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:56:25]

sphery:

er, I suppose I should say, "Please."

[05:56:33]

Beirdo:

in a moment

[05:56:38]

Beirdo:

had to kill X ;)

[05:56:59]

sphery:

no problem--I just noticed that reading what I wrote made it sound like I was giving orders.

[05:57:05]

Beirdo:

I tried using xrandr for resizing... it didn't like it much

[05:57:21]

sphery:

haven't tried that, but it sounds fun :)

[05:58:03]

Beirdo:

uhhhhh

[05:58:16]

Beirdo:

mythconverg.videosource doesn't exist?!

[05:58:32]

Beirdo:

grrr, what just happened when I killed X? :)

[05:58:40]

sphery:

did that one, too, when cleaning out the mythvideo ones?

[05:58:49]

sphery:

it's the MythTV Video Sources table

[05:58:55]

Beirdo:

don't THINK so

[05:58:57]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:59:04]

Beirdo:

that woulda been stupid, but probably

[05:59:05]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:59:19]

Beirdo:

yup, it's gone

[05:59:21]

Beirdo:

sigh

[05:59:23]

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[05:59:24]

Beirdo:

I suck!

[05:59:26]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:00:14]

sphery:

heh, well it's not in the list on the post I gave you, so I'm not going to accept responsibility :)

[06:00:20]

Beirdo:

and this is a good reason to keep idiots.. er users... out of the ruddy database

[06:00:55]

sphery:

http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1818565

[06:00:58]

Beirdo:

I know. This is definitely my fault ;)

[06:01:17]

sphery:

I'm really hoping to get embedded mysql done

[06:01:55]

sphery:

it would make direct db manipulation more challenging (until someone wrote a mysql-client-like program to access the db)

[06:02:45]

Beirdo:

now to run the setup again...

[06:03:36]

Beirdo:

interesting

[06:03:53]

Beirdo:

in mythtv-setup with metallurgy, the first two menu items have no icon

[06:05:57]

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[06:06:24]

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[06:06:30]

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[06:06:40]

Beirdo:

ok, it

[06:06:57]

Beirdo:

it's up... and in a window with nasty ubuntu-like borders

[06:08:02]

Beirdo:

toggle that setting back off, let's see now

[06:08:16]

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[06:08:37]

Beirdo:

GART crash

[06:11:33]

Beirdo:

oooh, it's being a persistent little bugger this time

[06:14:39]

Beirdo:

it's telling me to set the GARTSize

[06:14:46]

Beirdo:

but of course, doens't say where

[06:15:18]

Beirdo:

it does seem to bring up the borderless window in the right place though

[06:15:24]

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[06:15:39]

Beirdo:

gonna reboot it. one sec

[06:16:46]

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[06:18:52]

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[06:21:09]

Beirdo:

so I installed the other drivers

[06:21:11]

Beirdo:

let's see

[06:21:52]

Beirdo:

it's working...

[06:22:02]

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[06:22:03]

Beirdo:

not SURE, but it seems to be OK

[06:22:49]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: Justin McPherson of Qt must have heard joking about our fixing the Qt column truncation bug ourselves... He raised to Major priority 17min after my comment in #mythtv. :)

[06:23:41]

Captain_Murdoch:

:) didn't want us distributing our own statically linked version as qt-4.4.ko

[06:23:47]

Beirdo:

and it is now at 1280x720 + 0x152

[06:23:52]

sphery:

heh, guess not

[06:24:34]

sphery:

Beirdo: cool... you may have to write that up for others

[06:24:49]

sphery:

since we are lacking 4:3 themes

[06:24:57]

Beirdo:

sure, can do

[06:24:58]

sphery:

(though we now have a 16:10 theme available)

[06:25:07]

Beirdo:

not tonight though :)

[06:25:15]

sphery:

definitely not tonight

[06:25:20]

Beirdo:

why 16:10?!

[06:25:21]

sphery:

but if you're ever bored

[06:25:24]

sphery:

someone else could do it, too

[06:25:34]

sphery:

16:10 is a typical computer monitor aspect

[06:25:44]

Beirdo:

oh

[06:25:46]

sphery:

(perfect for 2 letter-sized pages side-by-side)

[06:25:59]

sphery:

16:9 is a litle short for that

[06:26:57]

sphery:

so it would be the 1920x1200 type screens

[06:27:10]

Beirdo:

I'll get ratpoison on here before writing this up :)

[06:27:19]

sphery:

er, wait, it was 2 A4 pages side by side for 16:10

[06:27:27]

Beirdo:

the ubuntu menubars, etc really don't lend justice...

[06:28:17]

Beirdo:

jeez

[06:28:25]

Beirdo:

ratpoison deb is 174kB

[06:28:27]

Beirdo:

heh

[06:29:08]

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[06:29:21]

sphery:

will ratpoison stretch the window to full screen?

[06:29:30]

Beirdo:

it shouldn't

[06:29:32]

sphery:

or can you prevent it from doing that?

[06:30:23]

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[06:33:52]

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[06:37:02]

Beirdo:

how the BLEEP do you tell Ubuntu to switch window managers?!

[06:37:25]

Beirdo:

I swear it gets more Winblows like every release

[06:37:46]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: install a different version

[06:37:55]

Beirdo:

??

[06:37:55]

wagnerrp:

ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu

[06:37:59]

wagnerrp:

:)

[06:38:10]

Beirdo:

I want ratpoison, not Gnome crap

[06:38:58]

wagnerrp:

you probably select it from GDM when you login

[06:39:10]

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[06:39:10]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[06:39:12]

Beirdo:

I didn't see it there though

[06:42:56]

Beirdo:

let me try again

[06:44:51]

sphery:

do you need to restart GDM after installing the ratpoison package?

[06:45:22]

Beirdo:

I logged off, but maybe that's not enough

[06:45:24]

Beirdo:

good point

[06:46:04]

Beirdo:

still not listed

[06:46:25]

Beirdo:

run xclient script, gnome, secure remote connection

[06:46:28]

Beirdo:

jeez

[06:46:38]

Beirdo:

failsafe gnome, failsafe terminal

[06:46:50]

Beirdo:

I think I'll try the last one and hope it comes with NO WM

[06:47:04]

wagnerrp:

ctrl+alt+backspace

[06:47:09]

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[06:47:20]

wagnerrp:

restart X, and let gdm reload its configs

[06:47:44]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: it probably comes with twm or something

[06:47:47]

Beirdo:

I restarted gdm via /etc/init.d/gdn restart

[06:47:59]

Beirdo:

and it had no wm for failsafe terminal :)

[06:50:13]

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[06:53:00]

Beirdo:

ahhhh

[06:53:37]

Beirdo:

is there a key for a screen cap?

[06:55:04]

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[06:55:28]

sphery:

in Myth?

[06:55:45]

Beirdo:

yeah, preferrably to get the entire screen :)

[06:56:25]

sphery:

you have to bind a key to either the ScreenShot Jump Point of the SCREENSHOT key binding. The former works for the UI and some playback, the latter only for playback.

[06:56:51]

Beirdo:

k.

[06:57:02]

sphery:

the key binding never gives captions or menus on top of the playback, and the jumppoint sometimes will (depending on video renderer)

[06:57:03]

Beirdo:

I'll look at getting a screen cap later :)

[06:57:22]

Beirdo:

this looks nice though

[06:57:23]

sphery:

but it will be only the myth screen

[06:57:33]

Beirdo:

solid black background

[06:57:36]

sphery:

so you probably want to use imagemagick or gimp or something

[06:57:41]

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[06:57:43]

Beirdo:

no window embellishments at all

[06:58:05]

Beirdo:

with a wide-screen theme letterboxed :)

[06:58:13]

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[06:58:24]

sphery:

nice

[06:59:05]

sphery:

if you have imagemagick, you can use: sleep 3 && import -window root screenshot.png

[06:59:14]

sphery:

will get the whole screen including the non-Myth background

[06:59:27]

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[07:01:01]

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[07:02:13]

Beirdo:

http://www.beirdo.ca/~gjhurlbu/test/screenshot.png

[07:02:33]

sphery:

nice

[07:02:36]

sphery:

looks good

[07:02:47]

Beirdo:

it's usable enough :)

[07:02:51]

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[07:02:52]

wagnerrp:

grits are considered 'good eats'?

[07:02:58]

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[07:03:04]

Beirdo:

apparently :)

[07:03:34]

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[07:03:39]

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[07:04:14]

sphery:

could even do an xsetroot -solid DarkGray , or even make a nice brushed metal image to tile on the desktop root

[07:04:46]

wagnerrp:

could probably be done in under a minute

[07:04:55]

wagnerrp:

just copy-paste off the theme background

[07:04:56]

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[07:05:01]

Beirdo:

heh, yeah

[07:05:10]

wagnerrp:

no one would be the wiser

[07:05:11]

Beirdo:

I'm fiddling with different themes anyways.

[07:05:45]

Beirdo:

http://www.beirdo.ca/~gjhurlbu/test/screenshot2.png

[07:06:22]

wagnerrp:

is this on a 4:3 monitor? or an actual TV?

[07:06:28]

Beirdo:

monitor

[07:06:34]

Beirdo:

16" Dell

[07:06:38]

sphery:

heh, even xsetroot -gray looks pretty ok with it (on a high-res monitor, at least)

[07:06:48]

wagnerrp:

ok

[07:07:00]

wagnerrp:

was wondering how you were going to read that text at 480i

[07:07:08]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:07:09]

sphery:

I still think that Arclight would scale nicely to 4:3

[07:07:20]

Beirdo:

it's at 720i, effectively right now

[07:07:25]

Beirdo:

with letterboxing

[07:07:29]

wagnerrp:

i?

[07:07:39]

Beirdo:

well p, I guess

[07:07:48]

Beirdo:

I'm not interlacing the monitor :)

[07:07:58]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:08:06]

Beirdo:

1280x720 + letterboxing

[07:08:13]

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[07:08:17]

sphery:

on a 1280x1024 monitor?

[07:08:21]

Beirdo:

yup

[07:08:26]

sphery:

so 5:4 not 4:3

[07:08:48]

sphery:

wonder if it's square pixels and actually a 5:4 display, too

[07:08:53]

Beirdo:

hmm.

[07:09:00]

Beirdo:

could be

[07:09:08]

Beirdo:

it does look nice :)

[07:09:09]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:09:18]

Beirdo:

not bad for a crappy old CRT

[07:09:23]

sphery:

yeah, I like it

[07:09:25]

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[07:09:58]

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[07:10:03]

Beirdo:

and no patches required, although having that as an option might still be nice

[07:10:09]

sphery:

and it looks like I need to go watch How I Met Your Mother

[07:10:09]

Beirdo:

save people fiddling

[07:10:28]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:10:33]

Beirdo:

yeah, it's fun.

[07:10:48]

Beirdo:

I can't believe I still have it from 2006 though

[07:10:49]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:11:06]

sphery:

oh, that's not a new one from tonight...

[07:11:07]

Beirdo:

to be fair, that was a week before I moved here

[07:11:09]

sphery:

I was getting excited

[07:11:36]

Beirdo:

my computers went into shipping boxes about then :)

[07:11:48]

sphery:

but there /was/ a new one tonight! :)

[07:12:04]

Beirdo:

yeah, oh well

[07:12:18]

Beirdo:

as you can see, I had more than one tuner running :)

[07:12:29]

Beirdo:

Trailer Park Boys & Family Guy concurrent

[07:13:01]

sphery:

I remember when my recordings were 2GiB/hr...

[07:13:15]

Beirdo:

yeah... those are all ivtv captures

[07:13:34]

Beirdo:

simpsons I ran at a lower bitrate too

[07:13:58]

sphery:

yeah, makes sense for animated

[07:14:08]

Beirdo:

yup

[07:14:19]

Beirdo:

shoulda done it for Family Guy too, but I guess I didn't

[07:14:47]

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[07:15:00]

Beirdo:

anyways, I think I'm set for tonight :)

[07:15:06]

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[07:15:09]

Beirdo:

tomorrow I can setup mythweb

[07:15:11]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:15:12]

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[07:15:31]

Beirdo:

and then I can actually use nuvexport again too

[07:15:38]

justinh:

I couldn't get away with that small text

[07:16:03]

Beirdo:

I'm about a meter or so from the monitor

[07:16:06]

Beirdo:

it's legible

[07:16:10]

Beirdo:

but not by much

[07:16:47]

justinh:

found myself agreeing with some of the -users thread about readability. Judging by all the recent themes I might have to do something about it

[07:16:50]

Beirdo:

but I definitely can use wide-screen this way :)

[07:17:09]

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[07:17:22]

sphery:

if the fonts are too small, it just means you need a bigger display

[07:17:28]

justinh:

oh naff off ubuntu, with your blimmin update notifications

[07:17:34]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[07:17:37]

justinh:

sphery: I disagree

[07:17:59]

Beirdo:

justinh: where's the big honkin "BITE ME" button when ya need it?

[07:18:12]

justinh:

heh

[07:18:27]

justinh:

I've tried uninstalling the update notifier before. ended up breaking gnome

[07:18:33]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:18:55]

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[07:19:08]

Beirdo:

what I'm gonna do tomorrow is setup a separate account for mythtv... and actually start the backend on startup, etc

[07:19:23]

justinh:

oooo

[07:19:46]

Beirdo:

running it manually in screen right now :)

[07:19:50]

wagnerrp:

thats some fancy stuff right there

[07:20:12]

** wagnerrp had thought ubuntu did that by default **

[07:20:15]

justinh:

I'm gonna base the smallest text size in my next effort on the smallest font seen in TV titles

[07:20:24]

Beirdo:

I'm not using packages

[07:20:30]

Beirdo:

I'm using trunk :)

[07:20:32]

wagnerrp:

ah

[07:20:39]

wagnerrp:

well they have trunk packages

[07:20:46]

Beirdo:

I could scam their startup scripts

[07:20:54]

Beirdo:

I don't want their packages

[07:20:55]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:20:56]

justinh:

those two words go together like oil & water

[07:21:02]

justinh:

trunk packages. MEH

[07:21:21]

Beirdo:

I will be doing development, I don't need no stinking packages

[07:21:26]

justinh:

Beirdo: I build from source too. I hate all the mollycoddling

[07:21:29]

Beirdo:

and their build-deps are SO far off

[07:21:39]

** wagnerrp uses trunk packages **

[07:21:52]

justinh:

heh I didn't find that Beirdo. Was only missing a few things last time

[07:22:09]

justinh:

and IIRC that was only for mythplugins

[07:22:25]

Beirdo:

well, I still feel like sending nastygrams :)

[07:22:28]

Beirdo:

but I'll live

[07:22:34]

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[07:22:39]

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[07:22:48]

justinh:

doubt you'd be the first to send shuttleworth faeces in a jiffybag

[07:22:53]

Beirdo:

of course, I AM running 8.04.4

[07:23:05]

justinh:

ahh that'd do it ;-)

[07:23:05]

Beirdo:

and doubt I'd be the last either

[07:23:12]

wagnerrp:

trac prints out these nice source zips

[07:23:16]

Beirdo:

bet Bill Gates sends him daily shipments

[07:23:35]

justinh:

oh I dunno. what has ubuntu ever done to threaten MS' position?

[07:23:39]

justinh:

*really* ?

[07:23:43]

wagnerrp:

i should probably look into having the ebuild revert back to pulling off subversion if the source package isnt available on the gentoo servers

[07:24:01]

** Beirdo shudders **

[07:24:16]

wagnerrp:

i doubt its a good thing to be pulling all these zip files off trac

[07:24:38]

Beirdo:

yeah, probably not.

[07:24:39]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:24:53]

Beirdo:

anyways, I'd better sleep

[07:25:04]

Beirdo:

gotta go to work and try to be useful tomorrow

[07:25:08]

Beirdo:

(yeah right)

[07:25:09]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:25:44]

justinh:

I stopped trying to argue with the idiot managers yesterday. Just gonna make sure I document everything so it's watertight

[07:26:08]

Beirdo:

and then post it all on engadget?

[07:26:22]

justinh:

expecting a fan to make a difference in a sealed box.. pfft

[07:26:36]

Beirdo:

well, it'll overheat a LITTLE later

[07:26:50]

Beirdo:

as it spreads the heat around somewhat evenly

[07:26:54]

justinh:

the best one is where they put a heatsink on top of the clutch of codec cards, separated from the chips by a huge air gap

[07:26:56]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:27:09]

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[07:27:22]

Beirdo:

you got some real PHBs there

[07:27:31]

justinh:

these things should have frickin heatpipes on em

[07:27:49]

Beirdo:

ah well, they'll just slide off the board

[07:27:51]

Beirdo:

nothing much

[07:28:02]

justinh:

actually no, we should use another chip for encoding rather than these thirsty things

[07:28:04]

wagnerrp:

could you rig up something in the firmware to print 'Justin told you this would happen', before going into thermal shutdown?

[07:28:18]

wagnerrp:

or do the chips just bake?

[07:28:19]

justinh:

there's no thermal shutdown ;-)

[07:28:30]

Beirdo:

etch it in the board under the part

[07:28:34]

justinh:

thermal runaway, which is why we're looking at it

[07:28:39]

Beirdo:

eek

[07:28:50]

Beirdo:

BGA part too, I bet?

[07:29:00]

justinh:

yeah, boards in a couple of returned units have been very discoloured

[07:29:02]

wagnerrp:

sounds like old AMD parts

[07:29:07]

Beirdo:

desolder itself in no time... if it doesn't fry first

[07:29:24]

wagnerrp:

apparently those were pretty spectacular if you removed the heatsink

[07:29:28]

justinh:

desolders itself, maybe shorting out PSU lines.. BZZT

[07:29:39]

Beirdo:

heh. yeah.

[07:29:42]

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[07:29:44]

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[07:29:52]

Beirdo:

2 inch flames ensue

[07:30:00]

justinh:

& there's no way they're gonna use a different codec. we bought the company

[07:30:15]

clever:

ive seen them on youtube

[07:30:19]

Beirdo:

wise decision, mr PHB

[07:30:33]

justinh:

this is an outfit who 'forgot' to put enough ground lines on the chip die

[07:30:49]

Beirdo:

bought them for a tax writeoff?

[07:30:53]

justinh:

so we had one batch that worked but only at a very low frame rate

[07:31:12]

justinh:

it's all owned by one holding co

[07:31:27]

justinh:

they own the IP. then there's us, who make the crap

[07:31:38]

Beirdo:

wpw

[07:31:43]

Beirdo:

wow even

[07:31:49]

justinh:

so they pay us to make stuff but charge us for using the IP

[07:32:03]

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[07:32:05]

clever:

sounds fun

[07:32:09]

Beirdo:

yup. incestuous business deals

[07:32:13]

Beirdo:

sounds familiar

[07:32:25]

justinh:

no, the same guy owns the whole group of companies

[07:32:25]

Beirdo:

my client at work... owns 51% of our company

[07:32:40]

justinh:

it's all a big tax fiddle I think

[07:32:41]

Beirdo:

yeah, but he's robbing Peter to pay Paul

[07:32:45]

Beirdo:

it's all funny money

[07:33:19]

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[07:33:24]

justinh:

this company got taken over by venture capitalists a few years back

[07:33:47]

Beirdo:

and it all went kablooie shortly after, I bet

[07:33:58]

justinh:

the ceo as of now left in disgust, then we came up with some industry killing designs, did really well. so ceo guy bought us back

[07:34:22]

justinh:

and now everything's all his brainchild.. and we're not doing so well :P

[07:34:41]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:34:45]

Beirdo:

frig

[07:34:52]

wagnerrp:

sounds like the company one of my friends works for

[07:35:04]

justinh:

this is the bloke who even chooses the fonts on promo material

[07:35:46]

Beirdo:

I think HE needs the poop bags

[07:35:49]

wagnerrp:

they sell piped audio systems, background music for stores and such

[07:35:58]

wagnerrp:

theyre doing well in spite of the CEO

[07:36:07]

justinh:

ugh. I hate muzak more than cctv

[07:36:17]

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[07:36:23]

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[07:36:36]

Beirdo:

anyways, gotta sleep.

[07:36:37]

justinh:

apparently this sort of thing is really common in engineering related fields

[07:36:46]

Beirdo:

it is, unfortunately

[07:36:49]

wagnerrp:

the CEO apparently doesnt know what hes talking about (even though he has his name on all the patents)

[07:36:51]

Beirdo:

night.

[07:36:55]

justinh:

I dunno how the hell mankind ever achieved anything in that case :P

[07:36:57]

justinh:

night Beirdo

[07:37:09]

wagnerrp:

and doesnt understand when to just not talk during licensing negotiations

[07:37:39]

justinh:

this ceo bloke isn't necessarily stupid.. just never wrong. Ever

[07:37:41]

wagnerrp:

eternally frustrating because you cant tell the owner to 'shut up'

[07:38:01]

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[07:38:12]

justinh:

he dreamed up this JBOD thing with 5 HDDs in it. In a 2U enclosure about 28 inches deep

[07:38:24]

justinh:

the HDDs mount in a drawer affair, horizontally.

[07:38:56]

justinh:

open the drawer to replace a disk.. it all powers down – so the disks are being moved as they spin down

[07:39:14]

wagnerrp:

theres no power button?

[07:39:35]

justinh:

the other week he saw a finished article, the design of which was led by his hand.. and threw it off the desk saying it was stupid

[07:39:54]

justinh:

so now we're gonna buy something in & put our name on it instead

[07:40:13]

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[07:41:35]

justinh:

wagnerrp: no, don't be silly!

[07:41:55]

justinh:

we suggested it'd be a good idea but that was poo-pooed

[07:42:22]

wagnerrp:

actually, the supermicro hotswap bays we have at work have no power button

[07:42:35]

justinh:

learned a lot about silicon image chipsets though. like er.. you don't wanna use em. ever

[07:42:50]

wagnerrp:

although to be honest

[07:43:00]

wagnerrp:

you pull a drive because its dead

[07:43:09]

wagnerrp:

what do you care if you damage it because its still rotating

[07:43:38]

justinh:

never underestimate the stupidity of end users though

[07:43:45]

wagnerrp:

i supposed thats not necessarily the case if youre doing JBOD

[07:44:00]

justinh:

we've got customers who want 24/7 365 recording with the ability to keep 12 months' worth

[07:44:26]

justinh:

so the premise is to have a rotating stack of HDDs. Shudder

[07:44:48]

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[07:45:19]

justinh:

it's mostly shopping malls & public places though.. covering their backsides against litigation – not crime prevention

[07:45:20]

wagnerrp:

this is some sort of surveillance DVR?

[07:45:26]

justinh:

yeah

[07:47:16]

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[08:04:39]

justinh:

hmmm so this fan.. where the hell am I supposed to pick up 5V for it from then, O great one?

[08:05:17]

wagnerrp:

the ether

[08:06:01]

justinh:

would that be the ether the PHB is sniffing all day?

[08:06:08]

wagnerrp:

sure

[08:08:09]

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[08:37:18]

justinh:

oh FFS, I thought the delete recordings screen was gone for good

[08:48:07]

justinh:

reminds me, there's still a hell of a lot I want to hack on

[08:48:17]

justinh:

arghhh when will I ever get time?

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[10:14:48]

justinh:

ho ho ho that's got to be the stupidest idea I've heard all day

[10:15:19]

justinh:

I need to build a waterproof box to house a wireless access point & an ethernet over power adapter

[10:19:23]

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[10:22:52]

sid3windr:

\o/

[10:24:46]

justinh:

said thing is going to be over 200 metres away from the other ethernet over power point. sheesh

[10:24:54]

justinh:

in a bus depot

[10:25:11]

justinh:

this project has fail written all over it

[10:27:30]

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[10:28:46]

sid3windr:

I have gigabit ethernet over power

[10:28:50]

sid3windr:

I get exactly 20Mbit

[10:28:51]

sid3windr:

:[

[10:29:43]

justinh:

this is allegedly for syncing mobile DVRs so they can archive recorded video

[10:30:26]

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[10:32:15]

ivor:

justinh: what the busses pull in and their onboard DVR's dump the data down?

[10:32:26]

Tanthrix:

Does myth have some clever database checker / repair tool nowadays?

[10:33:18]

justinh:

ivor: that's the idea

[10:33:22]

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[10:33:27]

ivor:

oh dear,

[10:33:29]

justinh:

Tanthrix: optimise_mythdb.pl ?

[10:33:48]

Tanthrix:

That still around? I'll use that then.

[10:35:49]

sid3windr:

ivor: heh, so a truckload^Wbusload of data, over wifi, over ethernet over power, how long will those buses stay stationary?!

[10:36:02]

sid3windr:

s/ivor/justinh/

[10:37:02]

justinh:

overnight

[10:37:09]

justinh:

i.e. back at the depot

[10:37:11]

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[10:39:36]

justinh:

100 or so GB over wireless, over ethernet over power, multiplied by a few buses.. farcical

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[12:33:47]

justinh:

good grief. talk about a waste of screen space: http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/02/17/dtr94500s_5.jpg

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[13:01:19]

Captain_Murdoch:

Dynasty or the screen layout in general? :)

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ivor:

"disc occupation" heh, weird wording award.

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[13:56:21]

justinh:

hmmm. pretty sure I should be able to log into the unit downstairs.. should be on the same subnet...

[13:56:47]

clever:

if the networks are setup right, subnet doesnt matter

[13:57:10]

justinh:

we've got VLANs now

[13:57:20]

justinh:

maybe the routing is broken today

[13:57:25]

clever:

aslong as you have a gateway between the lans, it will work

[13:58:01]

justinh:

I'm on x.x.36.47 & the box I wanna talk to is on x.x.35.80

[13:58:20]

justinh:

nope, can't even ping it. grrr

[14:00:15]

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[14:00:43]

Beirdo:

ugh, blah

[14:00:53]

Beirdo:

morning just keeps happening

[14:01:21]

justinh:

what you need is about 3 pints of mead the night before, then the morning doesn't come til afternoon or so

[14:02:14]

clever:

i dont even drink mead and i wake up at 3pm some days!

[14:02:36]

justinh:

yeah but you're a lazy person with no job

[14:02:53]

justinh:

somebody's pet

[14:03:04]

clever:

NEET

[14:03:42]

clever:

'Not in Employment, Education or Training'

[14:03:51]

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[14:04:05]

justinh:

in other words, lazy person with no job

[14:04:18]

clever:

pretty much:P

[14:04:24]

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[14:04:26]

justinh:

how I envy you

[14:04:31]

justinh:

ahem

[14:05:26]

justinh:

ah nuts 35.80 is on a private thingy

[14:05:40]

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[14:05:44]

justinh:

what a crock, so I have to be actually at the machine to update it. bah

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[14:08:16]

Beirdo:

heh

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[14:12:43]

Christian_P:

Hi, I've a problem with the internal player in mythtv. Playing DVDs or 720p movies on an external HDD is pretty jerky. It works fine with other player after increasing the buffer size and I really can't find a way to change settings like buffer size for the internal player.

[14:13:41]

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[14:13:43]

justinh:

heh sounds like you need MOARFASTER on your USB

[14:15:04]

justinh:

btw there is no way to change the buffering settings for the internal player

[14:15:08]

Christian_P:

puh, what is it and how do I use it? I'm pretty noob in linux...

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[14:15:41]

Beirdo:

ummm, I think he's trying to say that your USB may not be fast enough, and is causing the bottleneck :)

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[14:16:56]

Christian_P:

ah okay. Well it works fine with oder player (e.g. VLC player or xine) after increasing the buffer size

[14:17:09]

Beirdo:

I hope you are at least using USB2.0

[14:17:10]

justinh:

but you can't change the buffer size in mythtv

[14:17:38]

Beirdo:

you may somehow be able to get Linux to change filesystem buffer sizes, not sure

[14:17:49]

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[14:17:56]

Christian_P:

yep, I'm using USB2.0

[14:18:02]

Beirdo:

but it's simpler to just not try pulling it across USB :)

[14:18:18]

justinh:

buffer size shouldn't have anything to do with it anyway

[14:18:32]

justinh:

if it's struggling to get a few megabits/sec across.. sheesh

[14:18:42]

Beirdo:

well, it could, justinh... if it's bursty

[14:18:52]

Beirdo:

which USB by its nature is

[14:19:07]

justinh:

heh. wired connection as crap as wireless. who'd have thunk it

[14:19:14]

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[14:19:25]

Christian_P:

I have the same problem when playing DVDs.

[14:19:51]

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[14:20:01]

justinh:

is said USB disk on the same machine you're trying to play it off?

[14:20:15]

Beirdo:

well, USB sends large blocks. If you are consuming it as fast as it produces (or close to it), any jitter in time will cause apparent buffering issues

[14:20:19]

Christian_P:

it was jerky with the other players, too till I increased the buffer size

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[14:20:48]

justinh:

also lemme guess.. this USB HDD is NTFS formatted

[14:20:50]

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[14:20:56]

Christian_P:

the DVD drive is on the same machine, yes

[14:21:14]

justinh:

it's likely not a buffering issue then

[14:21:28]

Christian_P:

the USB HDD is an external HDD NTFS formatted

[14:21:32]

justinh:

look in the output of mythfrontend

[14:21:35]

justinh:

-v playback

[14:21:35]

Beirdo:

is the DVD drive also USB?

[14:21:47]

Beirdo:

NTFS? ick

[14:21:56]

Beirdo:

porque?

[14:21:57]

Christian_P:

no the DVD is not USB

[14:22:16]

Beirdo:

OK, yeah, turn on -v playback and see if anything pops out

[14:22:42]

justinh:

time to go downstairs, since I can't traverse the network.. bah

[14:22:48]

Christian_P:

ok, I check this

[14:22:54]

Christian_P:

thank you very much

[14:23:05]

Beirdo:

good luck

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[14:57:56]

NetWalk:

hi there, i have a question about Asus 9550 radeon card with VGA, Svideo et DVI connector, i'v try to activate svideo and DVI output on the card witout success, i run OpenSuse 11.2, any help ?

[14:58:31]

justinh:

try asking in #opensuse then, if such a place exists

[14:58:40]

NetWalk:

humm, ok!

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[16:42:30]

Beirdo:

hehe

[16:42:35]

Beirdo:

a lot of join/leave

[16:42:39]

Beirdo:

not much more

[16:43:32]

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[16:44:31]

sid3windr:

since we have to play nice noone talks anymore :>

[16:44:38]

Beirdo:

bah

[16:44:47]

Beirdo:

we're just enjoying the blessed silence

[16:44:49]

sid3windr:

ehehe

[16:47:36]

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[16:50:08]

Chicago:

How's it going, everybody?

[16:50:32]

Beirdo:

tired :)

[16:50:34]

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[16:50:47]

Beirdo:

but I got me a myth setup again... kinda tunerless though

[16:51:31]

Beirdo:

took until 3am, but it's all settled out :)

[16:51:37]

Beirdo:

almost all, rather

[16:53:56]

Chicago:

Cool, what did you do to tear it apart and start over? New hardware or just wanted to thrash it?

[16:54:29]

Beirdo:

the old hardware's dead

[16:54:35]

Chicago:

Bummer

[16:54:58]

Beirdo:

I pulled the old recordings out, imported the DB and did a massive upgrade

[16:54:59]

Beirdo:

heh

[16:55:12]

squish102:

i am dreading the day

[16:55:15]

Chicago:

I've been trying to get the VoIP infrastructure up over here using freeswitch. Is mythphone around at all anymore, to where I can send the CallerID to mythv from the pbx?

[16:55:19]

Beirdo:

I plan on rebuilding in a month or so, for now it's limping along in a PC

[16:55:34]

Chicago:

Ya know... sometimes I enjoy just starting with no recordings every now and again...

[16:55:38]

Beirdo:

I think mythphone was nuked

[16:55:48]

Chicago:

What really gets me huffed is when I need to do things like setup my channel maps again.

[16:56:35]

Chicago:

So I had an idea.

[16:56:52]

squish102:

Chicago, you not the only one. Everytime i screw with it, i end up punching in 20 or more xmltvid's. i should find a way of just updating the table directly

[16:57:27]

Chicago:

squish102, I'm finally a bit familiar with dvbscan now... so I'm hopping I can just make a channels.conf and feed it to myth...

[16:57:30]

Chicago:

make my life easier.

[16:57:59]

Chicago:

The idea is along the lines of submitting data back to schedules direct, from the EIT streams on my wire...

[16:58:09]

Chicago:

This could potentially make the schedules direct listings more accurate.

[16:58:20]

Chicago:

And then in my account, have an option to use the "adjusted feed".

[16:58:59]

sid3windr:

I don't think that's very legal :p

[16:59:03]

Chicago:

This could potentially remove the human step of correcting channel maps at sd also.

[16:59:06]

Chicago:

?

[16:59:11]

Chicago:

It's transmitted FTA sid3windr.

[16:59:20]

sid3windr:

doesn't mean you can use the EPG for whatever you please

[16:59:33]

sid3windr:

especially not for publishing it as a "commercial" service

[16:59:43]

Chicago:

okay

[16:59:48]

Chicago:

I def see your point.

[17:00:16]

Beirdo:

I'm not sure where he said anything of publishing it, really

[17:00:52]

Chicago:

It's more of an auto correction mechanism for my sd subscription.

[17:01:01]

Beirdo:

More of merging his EIT data into his SD lineup... I don't think it would ever be implemented for his EIT data to update OTHER people's SD data

[17:01:34]

Beirdo:

I would expect that it would be more likely to happen at the mythtv end still, not at SD

[17:01:45]

Chicago:

yeah

[17:02:27]

Chicago:

My eyes opened wide with 2.6.31 working out so nicely on cx18 driver and now it's like mythtv is all new again to me :)

[17:02:32]

Beirdo:

your end-user data, massage it for your uses all you want on your machine, et al.

[17:02:35]

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[17:02:57]

Beirdo:

assuming said end-user data is legally obtained (of course) :)

[17:02:58]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:03:04]

Chicago:

Oh geez

[17:03:12]

Chicago:

Do I need a lawyer to use free software?

[17:03:16]

Chicago:

Sometimes I think yes.

[17:03:18]

Beirdo:

EIT is legally obtained

[17:03:53]

Chicago:

I thought so... pretty much anything in the mpegts that is FTA should be "legally obtained".

[17:03:55]

Chicago:

or no?

[17:04:00]

Beirdo:

I doubt anybody has any qualms about using data they transmit with the video

[17:04:07]

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[17:04:30]

Beirdo:

if it ain't encrypted, it's obviously meant to be used, and they push it right to your TV

[17:04:44]

Chicago:

They sure do.

[17:04:47]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: if you're using the hvr-1600, you should really either update to 2.6.33 or install the latest v4l-dvb tree.

[17:04:58]

devinheitmueller:

(assuming that's the cx18 board you're talking about)

[17:05:12]

Chicago:

devinheitmueller, I'm pulling trunk from the hg repo for xc18.

[17:05:17]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: great.

[17:05:18]

Chicago:

Yes, it's the hvr-1600.

[17:05:30]

devinheitmueller:

ok

[17:05:57]

Chicago:

Will 2.6.33 fix something about handling the overdriven signals fed to the analog tuner any better?

[17:06:19]

Chicago:

I get some crappy video out of the analog tuner on cx18... my pvr500 makes a better video.

[17:06:25]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: there is no work in progress to address analog quality on the cx18 right now.

[17:06:32]

Chicago:

oh

[17:06:49]

Chicago:

no biggie

[17:06:59]

devinheitmueller:

Give me a couple thousand bucks and I would be happy to help. :-)

[17:07:07]

Chicago:

These days, I'm moving the analog tuners into the connected to a camcorder feed.

[17:07:16]

Beirdo:

devinheitmueller: you mercenary, you ;)

[17:07:33]

devinheitmueller:

Beirdo: I didn't offer to shoot anybody. ;-)

[17:07:39]

Chicago:

devinheitmueller, get the NDA and then maybe I will throw you some bucks.

[17:07:45]

devinheitmueller:

... although I'm open to that too for the right price.

[17:07:51]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:07:51]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: I have the datasheets under NDA.

[17:08:03]

Beirdo:

I have a few computers you could shoot at

[17:08:18]

devinheitmueller:

(I did a bunch of improvements to ClearQAM a few months ago on that board)

[17:08:19]

Beirdo:

give em nice speed-holes

[17:08:45]

Chicago:

devinheitmueller, where do you need new devs to concentrate now and are you mentoring any devs for cx18?

[17:08:46]

devinheitmueller:

(and I also did ALSA audio support for the cx18)

[17:09:05]

Chicago:

I just noticed the alsa audio support for cx18 in the kernel recently.

[17:09:10]

Chicago:

I was looking at it going wtf is this for?

[17:09:24]

devinheitmueller:

It's a target rich environment. Pick something that interests you and start working on it.

[17:09:31]

Beirdo:

BTW, mercenary is more than just hired armies, but I'm being silly :)

[17:09:42]

Chicago:

At this point I'm interested in replacing my cablemodem with the hvr-1600.

[17:09:59]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, the ALSA device is for analog audio when not using the MPEG encoder. It's so that you can play nintendo on the thing and hear the audio.

[17:10:00]

Beirdo:

I'm up for adventures of the sort... later

[17:10:17]

Chicago:

Oh that rocks.

[17:10:18]

Beirdo:

I got me a fit-pc2 en-route, and want to get it usable in myth first

[17:10:19]

devinheitmueller:

(without the latency of the encoder, that is)

[17:10:55]

Chicago:

I should change how I'm feeding the camcorder... I bet the latency through ffmpeg would be < 0.5s and that's 400 % better than the 2sec delay I have currently.

[17:11:03]

Beirdo:

and yes, I realize that this is the evil GMA500 :) that's the challenge

[17:11:25]

devinheitmueller:

Well, I'm sure a good portion of that latency is not the hardware, but rather mythtv doing buffering.

[17:11:41]

Chicago:

MythTV doesn't own that particular v4l device.

[17:11:49]

Chicago:

It's left aside for a little shell script to use. ;)

[17:11:52]

devinheitmueller:

I haven't measured the latency, but I suspect i's probably around 500ms, which isn't noticible unless you're doing something like playing a video game and expecting responsiveness.

[17:12:34]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Can I bump http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7202 ?

[17:12:38]

iamlindoro:

to .24

[17:12:41]

Chicago:

Well, what I'm looking for is taking a camcorder feed... passing it through ffmpeg... adding a timestamp to it... and then multicasting it through my network and then watch it with no cache... then measure the latency against ntp.

[17:12:45]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: yes

[17:12:50]

iamlindoro:

thanks

[17:13:00]

devinheitmueller:

The problems with using an MPEG encoder are not just because of the hardware – it's because you usually have to then decode the MPEG before showing it on the screen (and that overhead can be considerable)

[17:13:13]

Beirdo:

woohoo, one less thing to fix short-term

[17:14:09]

Chicago:

any reasonable quad core should be able to decode hundreds and hundreds of MB/s of mpeg, no?

[17:14:38]

Beirdo:

kormoc: I'd be tempted (I know this is naughty) to wontfix 7202 telling them to use a real browser

[17:14:41]

devinheitmueller:

If you're multicasting, then you almost certainly want to stick with the onboard encoder, as that will avoid lipsync issues with the audio.

[17:15:11]

kormoc:

Beirdo: there's a string we can put in that will make ie-8 render as ie-7 and should fix it without anything else

[17:15:20]

Beirdo:

nice

[17:15:26]

devinheitmueller:

Not really. If you have a multithreaded encoder, then you an get decent throughput through software. But it is nowhere near hundreds of megabytes per second.

[17:15:40]

devinheitmueller:

MPEG is still quite expensive.

[17:15:55]

devinheitmueller:

(as evidenced by how long it still takes to transcode DVDs for the iPod)

[17:16:19]

Chicago:

devinheitmueller, I have to keep playing and see where I want to end up. At this point, I'm going to #1 keep the 720x480 feed preserved at its quality level... and then #2 make a stream from it at 320x240 to watch from the mobile phone.

[17:16:29]

Chicago:

But it's still a WIP :)

[17:16:33]

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[17:16:54]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: is this for a commercial application?

[17:17:00]

Chicago:

No

[17:17:02]

Chicago:

my house

[17:17:04]

devinheitmueller:

ok

[17:17:09]

Chicago:

then probably my parents and brothers.;

[17:17:16]

Chicago:

I just tinker with free software alot.

[17:17:23]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I hear you.

[17:17:27]

Beirdo:

welcome to the club :)

[17:17:42]

Chicago:

People don't offer to pay what I ask for my developments... so I feed them back to the community or keep them for myself and don't share.... depending on whatever it is.

[17:18:07]

devinheitmueller:

Well, I hear you there too. :-)

[17:18:35]

** Beirdo hates cygwin **

[17:18:55]

Beirdo:

why did I even bother trying to make beirdobot compile for that annoying setup?

[17:19:17]

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[17:21:28]

Chicago:

devinheitmueller, Since I don't have an iPod, transcoding for that platform doesn't bother me much.

[17:21:29]

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[17:21:53]

Chicago:

What does bother me is when I ask ffmpeg to -acodec copy an AC3 stream and mux it into -f mpeg and then I get a resultant video with no sound.

[17:22:09]

Chicago:

ffmpeg will happily -acodec copy an AC3 stream and mux it into -f vob...

[17:22:15]

Chicago:

Which I don't understand why there's a difference...

[17:22:19]

Chicago:

I must be doing something wrong.

[17:22:32]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I cannot really comment on the nuances of ffmpeg. Better to send something to their mailing list.

[17:24:31]

Chicago:

So here's a question you perhaps could comment on.... How can I demux the MPEG payload out of the mpegts and then do a check on it to be sure there were no block errors in the feed and that the video I received in transmission was the same which was broadcast?

[17:24:57]

Chicago:

I'd like to know if the audio crc errors I see in my console are the result of bad decoding or bad voltages on my line.

[17:25:03]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: do you mean for analog MPEG? Or are you tallking about ATSC/ClearQAM?

[17:25:13]

Chicago:

ATSC/ClearQAM now

[17:25:40]

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[17:25:40]

Chicago:

For example, here is a use case...

[17:25:58]

Chicago:

Monday night TV happens... I record Chuck, House, Two And A Half Men and a few other programs...

[17:26:04]

devinheitmueller:

The demodulator stats are not embedded in the MPEG stream at all. You can either use femon while doing the capture to look for BER/UNC, or you can take the resulting MPEG and look for discontinuities and TEI errors.

[17:26:24]

Chicago:

If there were zero errors during the broadcast, I'd like to flag the recording, indicating its worthiness to be archived.;

[17:26:26]

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[17:26:32]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: #6294... sorta of feature request without patchy?

[17:26:42]

Beirdo:

hey that would be a cool addition as a post-recording check

[17:26:52]

Chicago:

Beirdo, thanks

[17:26:52]

iamlindoro:

(I note you accepted it, just trying to see what can get bumping/closed/whatever)

[17:26:54]

sid3windr:

[x] RECORDING ROX

[17:26:55]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: you're not likely for there to ever be *zero* errors. But you can examine the MPEG for discontinuities and TEI.

[17:27:33]

devinheitmueller:

(assuming the s5h1409 properly sets the TEI bit, which I believe it does)

[17:27:33]

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[17:27:40]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: Keep it open, every other template does it

[17:27:44]

Chicago:

Which firmware do you use?

[17:27:45]

Beirdo:

yeah, zero errors may not be doable. but with devinheitmueller's methodology... we could at least count potential errors

[17:27:47]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: gotcha, thanks

[17:28:11]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: I use the firmware that gets bundled with Ubuntu. I never bothered to go out and get anything else.

[17:28:30]

devinheitmueller:

(and you should be doing the same)

[17:28:32]

Chicago:

I think mythtv could really use it... When I watch cable on my buddies big screen through his tivo... none of the transmission errors really appear as artifacts on his screen.

[17:28:53]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: that could be not just a product of the hardware, but how well the MPEG decoder software handles errors.

[17:28:55]

Chicago:

On my myth, I get audio artifacts and occasional video artifacts which I don't know come from the transponder or my decoder.

[17:29:13]

devinheitmueller:

The quality varies *incredibly* among different MPEG decoder implementations.

[17:29:17]

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[17:29:26]

Chicago:

I'm using the firmware I pulled from gentoo.

[17:29:36]

devinheitmueller:

Some handle errors very gracefully, others will reset the entire stream, making errors very visible.

[17:29:44]

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[17:29:45]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: that's fine.

[17:29:59]

devinheitmueller:

I'm just saying you should not be arbitrarily trying different firmwares with the device.

[17:30:15]

devinheitmueller:

(people do crap like that, not realizing they can damage the hardware)

[17:30:25]

Chicago:

As I began using mplayer -dumpstream to checkout some of my FTA channels rather than watching them through mythtv, at that point is when I started making comparisons about the decoder.;

[17:30:51]

Chicago:

Nah, I just use whatever is current and recommended... didn't know if you received additional firmware under the NDA.

[17:31:10]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: No, I am using the same firmware as everyone else.

[17:31:25]

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[17:31:36]

Chicago:

So what do you think about dvbnet and using the hvr-1600 as a cable modem?

[17:31:38]

Chicago:

Is possible?

[17:31:51]

Chicago:

Or not dvbnet because it's in the kernel, and tun/tap instead.

[17:32:24]

Beirdo:

umm, does the hvr-1600 transmit in that format?

[17:32:37]

devinheitmueller:

Chicago: the HVR-1600 hardware doesn't implement DOCSIS. Cable modems have nothing to do with dvb-net.

[17:32:51]

Chicago:

k, I'm ignorant in this area at the moment.

[17:32:57]

devinheitmueller:

np

[17:32:57]

Beirdo:

I would think at best it would be receive-only, and you'd have to implement DOCSIS in software. Yech

[17:33:08]

devinheitmueller:

Beirdo: no, you cannot really do that.

[17:33:23]

devinheitmueller:

The silicon is not designed for any sort of bidirectional communication.

[17:33:40]

Beirdo:

yeah, that's what I was thinking

[17:33:49]

Chicago:

Well that's nice

[17:33:58]

Chicago:

I'm happy to know I didn't install a modem into my box without knowing.

[17:33:59]

Beirdo:

you might be able to decode it with a lot of work, but that's hardly useful

[17:34:37]

Beirdo:

and DOCSIS is a pain anyways :) I wouldn't wish that on anyone

[17:34:53]

Chicago:

Not too interested anymore... I was speculating on whether these consumer DVB cards would be replacing cable modems anytime in the near future.

[17:35:04]

devinheitmueller:

nope

[17:35:10]

Beirdo:

a former employer (several ago) used to do DOCSIS testing in a lab as part of our work

[17:36:03]

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[17:36:26]

Chicago:

Down the line... one of those jobs that flags a recording as "near perfect" or "really bad"... could also be used to give feedback to SD... "Everybody in your zipcode got a bad feed of American Idol last night, contact your cable carrier and complain."

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[17:53:49]

jbassett:

Hello folks, I have upgraded to myth 0.22. I have added a button to my mainmenu.xml file that runs "EXEC startkde" when pressed so that kde loads up if I need my desktop enviroment. Kde starts to load but hangs on the splash screen just as the hard disk/screwdriver icons etc are fading out. But, kde loads fine if I start it in xinitrc instead of via mythtv. Old version of mythtv was setup the same and worked fine.

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clever:

jbassett: try the same trick with gnome-session and see what happens

[18:04:31]

clever:

jbassett: it might be a kde problem, not mythtv

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[18:23:56]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch: Re: #7615, do you have any plans to implement something for that for .23? Seems bumpable but if you had plans for it I'll leave it alone. I feel like when I looked at the patch before it seemed very expensive

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sphery:

wow, Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D PSU is now actually green -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371034

[18:50:02]

hein1:

Hello. A question about Mythtv and a 100 Hz LCD. Is there in Mythtv a possibility to set a delay for the sound? Because my LCD needs some milliseconds to calculate the pictures in the 100 Hz mode, an then the sound is not in sync with the picture.

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sphery:

hein1: you can do that by going to MENU|Adjust Audio Sync, but have to do it every single time you start playback

[18:52:20]

sphery:

hein1: there's http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7772 , but it hasn't been reviewed/accepted, so use at your own risk

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[18:54:48]

hein1:

sphery: That's then problem with the entry in the menu, it's not persitent, you have to do it every time you'll switch on mythtv.

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Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, I've been debating it. I don't know if the benefits outweigh the latency introduced by having to shoehorn an access-time check into RemoteFile and opening a new connection for each access-time check. I think it's better to leave it the way it is for now. I've already done most of the work to move the main socket used for MBE communication into libmythdb, so RemoteFile will have access to it eventually, and we wo

[18:58:10]

Captain_Murdoch:

n't have to open new connections for every ::Exists() or ::Stat(), etc..

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[18:59:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

the patch in the ticket can't go in because it introduces a circular dependency. libmythui can't depend on libmyth because libmyth depends on libmythui. that's the reason for moving the socket communication out of libmyth into libmythdb, so libmyth can utilize it. that's another prerequesite for the MFileSystemWatcher since libmythui will take advantage of that as well.

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gizmobay:

For the fan art, does anyone know of a way to tell the script to look for a certain resolution first?

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[19:04:07]

jbassett:

Found my 'nonissue', kde was running fine on another desktop on the cube, it just left the startup icons on another side

[19:09:13]

wagnerrp:

'the cube'?

[19:09:48]

Beirdo:

It's the Borg! run away!

[19:12:41]

jbassett:

KDE Plasma desktop cube

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[19:13:04]

jbassett:

Probably not the best thing to have running a mythbox, but it does look cool

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wagnerrp:

s/a mythbox//

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[21:18:26]

sphery:

wagnerrp: USDA Grade A Prime Myth

[21:19:09]

wagnerrp:

is that corn-fed Iowa myth?

[21:19:19]

sphery:

heh, must be

[21:19:43]

sphery:

if you really want a nice system, though, go for the Kobe Myth

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[21:29:41]

dorgan:

hello all, can anyone in here recommend an inexpensive remote to buy that works with myth...i dont need anything fancy

[21:29:54]

Tanthrix:

Can't go wrong with the Microsoft MCE

[21:30:03]

Tanthrix:

$25 for remote + USB reciever on eBay

[21:30:22]

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[21:30:23]

wagnerrp:

$25 for remote + receiver at a proper retail outlet

[21:30:38]

wagnerrp:

why bother with ebay if its not actually cheaper

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[21:32:20]

iamlindoro:

j-rod: I got way into Champions League when I lived in France

[21:32:32]

iamlindoro:

j-rod: not the same without all my raucous french buddies, though

[21:32:51]

j-rod:

heh

[21:32:56]

Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: Usually it's a bit more...like $30–35 where the setup can be had new on eBay for $25 or under. And you can get the remotes for like $8 shipped

[21:33:06]

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[21:33:09]

j-rod:

I regularly go play soccer w/a pretty mixed crowd that includes some french guys

[21:33:16]

j-rod:

one who is a huge lyon supporter

[21:33:21]

wagnerrp:

i got both of mine for $25 including shipping

[21:33:26]

Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: Where at?

[21:33:29]

wagnerrp:

newegg

[21:33:40]

wagnerrp:

about a year or so back

[21:34:07]

j-rod:

I'm mostly english premiere league, but also end up watching a bit of italian serie a. french ligue 1 isn't on anywhere here on any regular basis that I'm aware of

[21:34:24]

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[21:34:28]

Tanthrix:

Well a year or so back ain't today. ;)

[21:34:31]

j-rod:

do watch champions league stuff too — bordeaux over olympiakos last week, iirc...

[21:36:01]

** wagnerrp thinks iamlindoro should have made a snide remark about the actual problem being 'ownership of a EPIA' **

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[21:36:23]

Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: In fact, I'm only seeing 3 places that have it on Google product search...and 3 of them are above $40. It seems these things come and go

[21:36:29]

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[21:36:35]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: hehe

[21:36:41]

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[21:36:47]

Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: In fact, I remember when I bought mine they were very difficult to find. Then they were everywhere. Now they're a bit harder again

[21:36:57]

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[21:37:27]

Tanthrix:

Ah, here, an Amazon retailer has it for $32, that's more like it

[21:38:10]

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[21:38:43]

dorgan:

wagnerrp: Tanthrix: will this work? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00224ZDFY/r . . . 9B7JAFTRTSDS

[21:38:59]

dorgan:

thats $17.95

[21:39:06]

Tanthrix:

Even cheaper – yes, I think it will

[21:39:13]

Tanthrix:

The myth wiki page has some info on it, check first

[21:39:17]

wagnerrp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880121002

[21:39:18]

Tanthrix:

There are a whole ton of MCE remote versions

[21:39:30]

wagnerrp:

identical to the one i have, but a different brand

[21:39:44]

dorgan:

ahh i do like the black

[21:39:45]

dorgan:

lol

[21:40:30]

wagnerrp:

i think its even the same model number

[21:40:40]

Tanthrix:

I really like the ergonomics of the regular, older MCE remote. But black is nice.

[21:40:46]

dorgan:

http://www.amazon.com/Company-MediaGate-GP-IR . . . ef=pd_cp_e_2

[21:40:50]

Tanthrix:

Looks like it's got a hell of a lot more buttons too

[21:40:52]

dorgan:

black one cheaper on amazon

[21:41:37]

wagnerrp:

a lot cheap if youve got Prime

[21:41:43]

Tanthrix:

Out of stock though

[21:41:54]

Tanthrix:

Oh how awesome it would be if prime was good for all amazon retailers

[21:42:05]

Tanthrix:

Not feasible though, I suppose

[21:43:15]

wagnerrp:

well its the same price as on newegg direct from amazon if you do have prime

[21:43:45]

wagnerrp:

or if you tack on another $0.31 item

[21:45:11]

dorgan:

has anyone used one of these with myth? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It . . . 04-_-Product I just bought a case that has a spot for this but didnt buy it because I wasnt sure if myth could use it

[21:50:02]

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[21:51:30]

sphery:

ThisOtherGuy: Did you ever get Myth to build with --disable-directfb ?

[21:51:58]

sphery:

ThisOtherGuy: is http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7351 your ticket? (Seems it was reported long before you were having issues, so I'm guessing, no.)

[21:55:02]

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[21:58:58]

j-rod:

cute: http://www.macworld.com/article/146797/2010/03/redeye_mini.html

[22:00:04]

j-rod:

dorgan: its not so much a matter of whether mythtv works with it, as it is whether or not the thing is supported by lcdproc

[22:00:18]

wagnerrp:

acoustically modulated IR?

[22:00:21]

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[22:00:33]

dorgan:

yeah i guess i should search the wiki before i ask, apparently lcdproc does support it

[22:00:42]

wagnerrp:

isnt there some LIRC module to do that?

[22:00:48]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: hasn't people been doing that with lirc for a while?

[22:01:00]

j-rod:

wagnerrp: that's my guess. hell, lirc has a userspace driver that … what AndyCap said

[22:01:20]

j-rod:

its got both send and receive support now too (send support was added a month or two ago, iirc)

[22:02:12]

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[22:02:25]

sphery:

what is acoustically modulated IR?

[22:02:27]

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[22:02:35]

wagnerrp:

sphery: pumped out the headphone port

[22:02:47]

sphery:

oh, instead of a serial port?

[22:03:06]

AndyCap:

I guess you can use the old 56k modem trick when sending?

[22:03:20]

wagnerrp:

in this case, instead of an expensive wifi-to-ir adapter

[22:03:51]

sphery:

that's cool (since serial is becoming hard to find). Does it require a special sound driver? (Like the lirc serial driver has to be used instead of the real serial driver.)

[22:04:06]

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[22:06:08]

AndyCap:

serial should be replaced with ftdi usb serial chips. :)

[22:06:51]

AndyCap:

since they have that nice bitbang mode

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stuartm is now known as gbee

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[22:47:43]

DLGandalf:

is the repo version of ubuntu 9.10 known to be bugged?

[22:50:30]

wagnerrp:

its known to be a pre-release version of mythtv

[22:51:08]

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[22:54:19]

DLGandalf:

more reports here of users unable to view live tv from a different physical backend?

[22:56:44]

dustybin:

the mythtv theme winner:

[22:56:45]

dustybin:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3028/2785643279_6f324a2384.jpg

[22:56:47]

dustybin:

o_0

[22:57:25]

dustybin:

http://www.400bpm.com/web/sa/htpc/meedios-the . . . ge2-AEON.jpg

[22:57:29]

dustybin:

0_o

[22:58:51]

iamlindoro:

dustybin: Stop.

[22:59:40]

dustybin:

eeek i didn't realise you was around :-S

[22:59:50]

wagnerrp:

yeah... i dont get the joke either

[22:59:56]

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[23:00:00]

** dustybin double eeeks **

[23:00:09]

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[23:01:05]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o jams

[23:01:15]

dustybin has been kicked from #mythtv-users by jams!~jams@CPE-65-29-46-29.wi.res.rr.com (dustybin)

[23:01:26]

Mode for #mythtv-users by jams!~jams@CPE-65-29-46-29.wi.res.rr.com : -o jams

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[23:02:31]

jams:

no real reason he just annoyed me right there

[23:03:05]

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[23:07:28]

ecksii:

Howdy

[23:07:38]

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[23:08:25]

jams:

hi

[23:08:53]

ecksii:

Any know firewire capture well?

[23:09:03]

ecksii:

c/Any/Anyone/

[23:09:09]

jams:

sorry not me

[23:09:37]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -v jams

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[23:14:50]

ecksii:

Firewire capture worked great for me until a couple of weeks ago. I believe that my cable company is playing with things but I don't know how to check and see if they have just enabled 5C encryption on more and more channels. My question is: Is anyone using firewire as an STB channel changing option only? To explain. I have an SA4250HD STB. I'd like to receive Standard Def only I'm thinking that I need to use an S-video cable between my

[23:14:50]

ecksii:

and my PVR-150 and relegate firewire to changing the channel.

[23:15:39]

tzanger:

it'd be really nice if you could get a cablecard compliant board and use that, but it's just not possible in Canada

[23:15:47]

tzanger:

hence why I'm using ATSC

[23:16:00]

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[23:17:07]

ecksii:

A Cablecard compliant board sounds perfect but I imagine that my Cable company wouldn't allow me to do that.

[23:17:30]

wagnerrp:

ecksii: theyll happily let you use one

[23:17:31]

ecksii:

I'm in the US btw. (Cablevision in CT)

[23:17:39]

wagnerrp:

however you have to use W7 MCE

[23:17:48]

wagnerrp:

and you no longer have control over your recorded content

[23:18:15]

wagnerrp:

your cableco can delete it or refuse playback of recorded content at any time

[23:18:28]

ecksii:

Since my main point in having MythTv is to capture SD Video for viewing on my iPhone that doesn't cut it 8-)

[23:20:46]

ecksii:

Don't get me wrong I'd love to be able to do High Def but MythTV supplements my TiVo and does the things that TiVo doesn't do like lock me away from content or take forever and six days to transfer 1hr of SD video over a gigabit network.

[23:20:55]

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[23:21:32]

ecksii:

But 720x480p is plenty for my iPhone or my laptop.

[23:21:34]

tzanger:

wagnerrp: ahh, interesting

[23:21:43]

wagnerrp:

youre saying mythtv does those? or tivo does those?

[23:21:48]

tzanger:

wagnerrp: any real efforts at reverse engineering cablecard?

[23:22:01]

tzanger:

(not the encryption aspect, but the control aspect)

[23:22:18]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[23:22:45]

tzanger:

a cablecard driver

[23:22:52]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:23:02]

Beirdo:

why do I read that as "cable-car driver"?

[23:23:05]

wagnerrp:

right... what good is one if you dont handle the encryption?

[23:23:31]

tzanger:

wagnerrp: you mean it pulls all the CAM function into the driver? it's not kept on-card and just emits TS?

[23:23:36]

ecksii:

TiVo does those things. You can transfer video off of TiVo when the cable company lets you (no HBO etc...) TiVo's network adapter is dog slow. It takes 10 minutes to transfer 30minutes of SD video

[23:23:39]

** tzanger boggles **

[23:23:53]

wagnerrp:

you either have to decrypt it on your own, or otherwise spoof the card into thinking you are providing a protected output path

[23:23:56]

ecksii:

ATSC is over the air right?

[23:24:00]

wagnerrp:

either way, youre breaking DMCA

[23:24:03]

tzanger:

ecksii: yes

[23:24:12]

tzanger:

wagnerrp: ah, I see

[23:24:31]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: yup, except tzanger is in Canada :) hehe, still not a good topic here

[23:24:39]

tzanger:

yeah I won't push it

[23:24:50]

wagnerrp:

the cablecard tuner captures the broadcast, decrypts it, and then re-encrypts it to send to the computer

[23:24:53]

Beirdo:

DMCA may not apply to him, but it does to most :)

[23:25:12]

tzanger:

wagnerrp: interesting.

[23:25:25]

Beirdo:

the joys of being in Canada... No DMCA, and you can smoke Cuban cigars

[23:25:33]

Beirdo:

and play hockey :)

[23:25:33]

wagnerrp:

during playback, it gets passed back into the card, decrypted again (if authorized by the cableco), and re-encrypted through microsoft's protected video path

[23:25:50]

tzanger:

haha

[23:25:57]

wagnerrp:

such that the unencrypted video is never in a position that the user could have access to it

[23:26:08]

Beirdo:

that is the lamest thing I've ever heard... do they REALLY think their stupid shows are THAT valuable?

[23:26:38]

tzanger:

it is goofy to re-encrypt... just give the TS or don't, don't give it back to the card to re-decyrpt

[23:26:42]

tzanger:

but oh well

[23:26:45]

wagnerrp:

its a huge CF that has nothing to do with piracy, and everything to do with controlling how their customers can access the content

[23:26:53]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:27:04]

Beirdo:

to make even more money off us

[23:27:12]

wagnerrp:

thats their whole fear of the 'analog hole'

[23:27:12]

Beirdo:

but that's capitalism :)

[23:27:13]

ecksii:

So, in principle I can still get what I want by putting my PVR-150 back into my MythTv box and connecting an S-Video Cable between the SA4250 and PVR-150 at the cost of one digital -> analog -> digital transition right?

[23:27:23]

tzanger:

they make nothing off me, I refused to buy cable because they could not promise that their firewire port would not stop working

[23:27:25]

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[23:27:28]

wagnerrp:

its not that people are going to capture using that method and put it out on the internets

[23:27:34]

wagnerrp:

its that they have now lost control

[23:27:43]

ecksii:

Exactly.

[23:27:57]

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[23:27:58]

wagnerrp:

tzanger: the FCC promises that those firewire ports will not stop working

[23:28:05]

tzanger:

wagnerrp: the joy of being in Canada

[23:28:13]

Beirdo:

!trout cablecos idiotic

[23:28:13]

** MythLogBot slaps cablecos with a idiotic trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[23:28:20]

ecksii:

But not that the cableco won't 5c every channel.

[23:28:23]

tzanger:

the FCC does something smart, and the CRTC runs back to the arms of Rogers

[23:28:54]

Beirdo:

tzanger: who do you think pays them off... I mean funds them... err... :)

[23:29:00]

tzanger:

I don't know the whole 5C thing is bullshit. if I can get the output on HDMI or component out, I should be able to also get it on firewire. end of story

[23:29:13]

tzanger:

if you don't want me to have the signal, don't give it to me, but don't say "oh, that's a digital connection, sorry, no."

[23:29:36]

tzanger:

there are enough laws out there for copyright and redistribution that you don't need special electronic versions

[23:29:43]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:29:47]

Beirdo:

tell the US that...

[23:29:52]

** Beirdo spits on the DMCA **

[23:29:53]

tzanger:

if I want to make my own PVR, I should be able to. If I go to redistribute the content... then throw the book at me

[23:30:05]

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[23:30:06]

ecksii:

HDMI is the same as firewire in that regard.

[23:30:17]

tzanger:

ecksii: I don't think they disable the HDMI connection with 5C

[23:30:31]

Beirdo:

they encrypt the data over HDMI

[23:30:38]

tzanger:

yes I know HDMI's encrypted via HDCP

[23:30:47]

clever:

but does HDCP work over DVI?

[23:30:53]

tzanger:

clever: it can, yes

[23:30:59]

Beirdo:

yet another lame encryption

[23:31:00]

clever:

my cable box has dvi

[23:31:05]

tzanger:

the rogers HD boxes won't spit out HDMI or DVI unless HDCP is successfully negotiated

[23:31:08]

Beirdo:

should just call it YALE

[23:31:21]

ecksii:

YALE?

[23:31:32]

Beirdo:

Yet Another Lame Encryption

[23:31:34]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:31:38]

ecksii:

Heh

[23:31:45]

tzanger:

one of my back burner projects is an HDCP-compliant HDMI receiver chip connected to an FPGA that does h264 on the fly

[23:32:06]

Beirdo:

have fun

[23:32:09]

ecksii:

Good that you are in Canada

[23:32:16]

tzanger:

oh I'd never be able to sell it

[23:32:27]

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[23:32:30]

tzanger:

but it'd be easy enough to get an NDA/etc to get the HDCP-complient receivers from TI or Analog

[23:32:46]

tzanger:

"yeah, the project fell through, yeah I destroyed the parts."

[23:32:49]

ecksii:

Then you can't even give it away.

[23:32:54]

tzanger:

I know

[23:33:08]

tzanger:

I wouldn't be able to do anything with it except for personal consumption, and even that'd be grey

[23:33:09]

Beirdo:

ummm, NDA doesn't always mean you can't give the parts away

[23:33:19]

Beirdo:

you just can't give any information

[23:33:28]

ecksii:

One such device is interesting.

[23:33:34]

tzanger:

mind you

[23:33:44]

tzanger:

HDCP's been totally and irrecocably broken

[23:34:02]

Beirdo:

yeah, not surprised... but we should steer clear of details :)

[23:34:04]

ecksii:

You need to be able to make many such devices for it to be disruptive in the market.

[23:34:05]

tzanger:

the master key was reconstructed and new keys can be created

[23:34:05]

sphery:

don't they already make a box that does exactly that?

[23:34:14]

sphery:

some HD thing that makes people Furious

[23:34:21]

tzanger:

the HDCP strippers? yeah I think you can get them on ebay

[23:34:39]

sphery:

I'm talking about HD Fury, which can then be hooked to HD-PVR.

[23:34:48]

tzanger:

set up a network of distributed servers across freedom-loving countries to generate HDCP keys for the hardware :-)

[23:34:58]

Beirdo:

yeah. it has legitimate uses though

[23:35:17]

Beirdo:

like for some lame TVs that won't do HDCP properly

[23:35:19]

sphery:

this, I think, is more legitimate than distributing hdcp keys, though

[23:35:21]

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[23:35:24]

sphery:

right

[23:35:36]

sphery:

so you get analog component output

[23:35:40]

Beirdo:

yup

[23:35:41]

sphery:

which works perfectly for the HD-PVR

[23:35:42]

tzanger:

HD fury has an hdcp-compliant receiver?

[23:35:49]

tzanger:

oh analog out

[23:35:50]

tzanger:

yeah

[23:35:56]

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[23:35:57]

tzanger:

this is the principle of the amtter. :-)

[23:36:09]

tzanger:

actually you could probably grab the pixel bus off most televisions

[23:36:09]

ecksii:

Are there any Analog capture cards that take HD component input?

[23:36:14]

sphery:

sounds like a problem that's already been solved to me

[23:36:27]

sphery:

ecksii: HD-PVR

[23:36:35]

clever:

Beirdo: i recently came across a story where 2 bytes in the EDID eeprom got modified

[23:36:45]

clever:

so the computer (tied to the tv) refused to boot

[23:36:48]

ecksii:

Supported by MythTV?

[23:36:51]

tzanger:

clever: saw that on hackaday

[23:36:55]

sphery:

ecksii: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HD-PVR

[23:36:58]

Beirdo:

I need a digital DVI/HDMI (no HDCP) -> VGA converter... even more fun

[23:37:05]

** ecksii likes it when it's just a hardware problem. **

[23:37:32]

clever:

Beirdo: it was an LG tv and amazingly, came with full schematics, and he was able to wire the i2c pins to hit lpt port and fix it

[23:37:38]

clever:

tzanger: same

[23:37:43]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:37:54]

** ecksii whips out his credit card and amazon. **

[23:38:08]

** sphery wonders what you whipped amazon out of **

[23:38:09]

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[23:38:11]

clever:

each HDMI port had its own edid eeprom

[23:38:27]

clever:

when one failed he moved the pc to the other port, but it failed soon after

[23:38:55]

Beirdo:

tzanger: you wanna make me a DVI-D -> analog converter in your spare time... for free? :)

[23:38:57]

ecksii:

Thanks all.

[23:38:58]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:39:06]

tzanger:

Beirdo: :-)

[23:39:08]

AndyCap:

clever: um, sounds like he should be sending the video card or tv back.

[23:39:25]

Beirdo:

or stop trying to hack HDCP

[23:39:34]

Beirdo:

more to the point

[23:40:01]

clever:

AndyCap: the pullup resistor on write-protect doesnt seem to have been doing its job, since he re-wrote the eeprom so easily

[23:40:08]

clever:

which might be why it broke in the first place

[23:40:19]

clever:

and the vid card must also suck to hang the system if the edid checksum is invalid

[23:40:21]

Beirdo:

there is ONE box on amazon that does what I need... $70 or so

[23:40:29]

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[23:40:50]

sphery:

Beirdo: and there's a /lot/ of TV's on amazon that would make it a moot point :)

[23:41:01]

sphery:

(none for $70 or less, though :( )

[23:41:02]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:41:23]

Beirdo:

well, I think this would be a good thing for future debugging of various little boxes anyways

[23:41:40]

Beirdo:

the fit-pc2 is just the first thing that will need something

[23:42:21]

ecksii:

Dinner time here on the east coast

[23:42:22]

Beirdo:

oooooh! I hate cygwin

[23:42:33]

tzanger:

east coast?

[23:42:39]

tzanger:

it's 6:45 here in Ontario

[23:42:45]

ecksii:

US

[23:42:46]

kormoc:

east coast of Japan?

[23:42:49]

ecksii:

Same time here.

[23:42:51]

tzanger:

wouldn't be dinner time

[23:42:52]

Beirdo:

perl says to use -fstack-protector... gcc3 doesn't have that

[23:43:07]

ecksii:

Gotta get my kid out from in front of the Wii.

[23:43:12]

ecksii:

Thanks all.

[23:43:19]

ecksii (ecksii!~chris@ool-457cb346.dyn.optonline.net) has left #mythtv-users ()

[23:43:33]

kormoc:

in soviet russia, the wii gets out from in from of the kid

[23:43:35]

kormoc:

oh, he left

[23:43:35]

** Beirdo grumbles **

[23:43:42]

Beirdo:

hehe, too late

[23:44:01]

sphery:

gcc3... you bleeding edge types... doesn't everyone know that gcc 2.95 is the only safe compiler to use

[23:44:10]

tzanger:

heh

[23:44:12]

Beirdo:

cygwin has gcc4

[23:44:24]

Beirdo:

but you need to jump through even more hoops to use it

[23:44:50]

Beirdo:

frigging morons

[23:44:53]

Beirdo:

anyways :)

[23:45:41]

AndyCap:

Ah, I see the fdti driver got into lirc. http://www.huitsing.nl/irftdi/

[23:45:56]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:46:09]

Beirdo:

that looks like http://www.randomstring

[23:47:06]

Beirdo:

ok, cygwin, you pain in the butt

[23:47:15]

Beirdo:

time for gcc4

[23:47:33]

Beirdo:

meanwhile, let's get mythweb running

[23:49:05]

AndyCap:

Beirdo: so why are you struggling with a third-rate unix environment?

[23:49:23]

Beirdo:

as people want to use it for the MUD I work on

[23:49:50]

Beirdo:

so right now, I'm trying to convince beirdobot (which shares a lot of code with the mud) to work on it

[23:50:03]

Beirdo:

the core functions like queues, etc are common

[23:50:20]

Beirdo:

people are stupid, I know

[23:50:31]

Beirdo:

but there's a couple of them that INSIST on using cygwin

[23:50:32]

RyeBrye (RyeBrye!~ryebrye@67.199.187.50) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)

[23:50:58]

clever:

Beirdo: ever seen colinux?

[23:51:04]

Beirdo:

I'll be making them a VMWare image with ubuntu in it, but I bet even THAT will be too hard for them

[23:51:45]

clever:

colinux is similar to vmware, but nothing is jailed up

[23:52:12]

Beirdo:

meh, I have enough virtualization things to deal with :)

[23:52:26]

clever:

colinux isnt virtualized

[23:52:40]

Beirdo:

it's just a chroot?

[23:52:41]

Beirdo:

meh

[23:52:45]

clever:

a 'fake' windows network driver will hand ring0 perms over to the linux kernel

[23:53:05]

clever:

and when linux is done using the cpu, it returns back to the 'network driver'

[23:53:25]

Beirdo:

I'd rather people use a real linux box

[23:53:45]

clever:

its a full linux kernel with total access to the hardware (kinda)

[23:54:14]

Beirdo:

these idiots can't even handle vmware where you click on "Boot" and then login

[23:54:22]

clever:

windows doesnt like sharing hardware, so most of it has to be relayed over thru colinux drivers

[23:54:29]

Beirdo:

no way I'm gonna try something more complicated

[23:54:59]

clever:

andlinux is very simple i find, 1gig ubuntu image with win32 x server and everything you neede

[23:55:32]

clever:

only problem i had is that almost nothing actualy worked in the gui:P

[23:55:32]

Beirdo:

as I said... :) vmware image :)

[23:56:00]

clever:

vmware with better cpu usage:P

[23:56:18]

Beirdo:

if they want better CPU, they can install linux natively

[23:56:58]

Beirdo:

and then they can even play with mythtv :)

[23:57:07]

clever:

ive run mythtv in colinux

[23:57:29]

clever:

but the X11 performance isnt enough for video yet

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