Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, January 28th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:49]

jolaren:

I have an old P3 with 128 mb ram that I'm going to use as a backend for a mythtv configuration on my main computer. Can I add a pci dvb-t card to that?

[00:01:24]

jolaren:

to such an old computer I mean

[00:09:58]

jolaren:

No1 here? =(

[00:10:29]

Hiisty:

i am :)

[00:11:23]

jolaren:

:P

[00:11:25]

Hiisty:

i don't really know but i would guess that it wont work :(

[00:11:39]

jolaren:

why?

[00:12:00]

devinheitmueller:

jolaren: if you have never built a mythtv backend before, I would not recommend making your first system such a low end platfomr.

[00:12:18]

devinheitmueller:

It *can* be made to work, but it would be nontrivial to fit everything into such a low end system.

[00:12:38]

devinheitmueller:

(also, you would likely have to compile from source since I doubt any of the binary distros of mythtv still work with a P3)

[00:12:53]

jolaren:

A friend of mine setup a newsc server on a p3 with 32mb ram

[00:12:55]

jolaren:

worked fine

[00:13:08]

jolaren:

devinheitmueller; your missunderstanding me

[00:13:15]

jolaren:

only the newsc part etc will be on the p3

[00:13:25]

jolaren:

the rest will be done from my ion asrock 330

[00:13:27]

jolaren:

with vdpau

[00:13:37]

sid3windr:

newsc part?

[00:14:05]

devinheitmueller:

Like I said, it can be made to work, but developers don't actively develop the backend for such low-end hardware, so you are likely to have issues.

[00:14:17]

iamlindoro:

jolaren, any talk of softcams in this channel is off limits-- please don't mention it again or argue, or it will result in a ban

[00:14:50]

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[00:15:08]

jolaren:

iamlindoro; Sorry for the inconvienience iamlindoro. I didn't know about the restrictions regarding this issue. Thought it only applied to illegal stuffs. Since I'm not sharing my card it's not illegal

[00:15:44]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, he's talking about a softcam? Yeah, that's completely off limits, and we won't even discuss the legality (or whether you believe it is legal or not)

[00:15:57]

iamlindoro:

jolaren, It is illegal in the united states and UK, which are the two countries where the majority of the myth devs live-- for for all intents and purposes, it's illegal in this channel

[00:16:06]

jolaren:

I guess it depends from country to country... I will not speak on behalf of it again

[00:16:08]

iamlindoro:

let's drop any further discussion of it, beginning now

[00:16:18]

iamlindoro:

thanks

[00:17:08]

jolaren:

On my second matter, a dvb-t card – pci.. Any Swedish user here who'm can tip about a store to purschase a card? Really hard to find any of the dvb-t cards listed on linuxtv

[00:18:10]

mrand:

jolaren: have you checked the mythtv wiki hardware and tuner pages? I don't know that it answers your question, but it would be the first place I'd go to look.

[00:18:32]

jolaren:

mrand; Yer, I have. Been searchin alot of names provided by the wiki/list

[00:18:47]

jolaren:

But failed in finding stores who sell them. Shipping a card overseas seems a bit to much

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[00:30:37]

dashcloud:

hi, has anyone had success using the flash streaming page (from .21 or .22) with the Wii's Internet Channel (the latest updated version)?

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[00:38:52]

wagnerrp:

jolaren: an addendum to what devinheitmueller said, a P3 should be perfectly fine for a backend with digital and/or mpeg tuners

[00:39:04]

** cesman doesn't have a Wii **

[00:39:08]

wagnerrp:

however 128MB is wholly insufficient for mythtv

[00:39:27]

cesman:

dashcloud: I know there are instructions around for getting Flash to work w/ the Wii

[00:39:48]

** cesman has in fact applied to to LinHES... **

[00:39:56]

cesman:

I've gotten reports of success

[00:40:40]

cesman:

dashcloud: http://www.hacksawlabs.com/index.php?option=c . . . mp;Itemid=53

[00:45:15]

dashcloud:

cesman: looks very promising- thanks!

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[00:50:38]

cesman:

dashcloud: you are welcome

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[01:04:56]

jolaren:

h.264 is what needed to watch hd channels?

[01:08:40]

wagnerrp:

only if those channels are encoded using h264

[01:08:57]

jolaren:

so what do you need to watch regular hd channels?

[01:09:29]

RyeBrye:

define regular

[01:09:38]

jolaren:

I'm browsing a site that's the equality to pricerunner in sweden

[01:09:51]

jolaren:

RyeBrye; I mean, mpeg4?

[01:10:24]

wagnerrp:

mpeg4 is a very broad standard, it is not specifically a codec

[01:11:26]

jolaren:

If I want to watch HD channels with my dvb-t card, what does my dvb-t card need to support?

[01:11:49]

wagnerrp:

DVB-T

[01:12:32]

jolaren:

just dvb-t?

[01:13:12]

wagnerrp:

there were apparently some older cards that did not have the bandwidth for HD DVB-T

[01:13:31]

wagnerrp:

but any card that supports DVB-T should be able to record any DVB-T stream

[01:13:39]

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[01:27:20]

jolaren:

wagnerrp; I have a /Bt878 Video Capture device in my box (listed from lshw -short) can it be used for anything

[01:27:38]

wagnerrp:

that is a framegrabber

[01:27:48]

wagnerrp:

you can use it for analog, you probably dont want to

[01:27:53]

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[01:28:47]

jolaren:

I'll give it a go just to see how it gets

[01:29:14]

clever:

its painfull

[01:29:44]

jolaren:

painful how? quality wise+

[01:29:54]

clever:

quality and cpu usage

[01:30:19]

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[01:31:13]

jolaren:

a p3 800mhz will barely run it?

[01:31:26]

jolaren:

i mean

[01:31:28]

jolaren:

that's the backend

[01:31:39]

clever:

my 1.6ghz backend had trouble with my framegrabber

[01:31:47]

wagnerrp:

youre going to be pushing that chip pretty hard to run a framegrabber

[01:31:54]

wagnerrp:

you have to encode the raw video in real time

[01:34:00]

jolaren:

analog, is that by antenna or by socket in the wall?

[01:34:10]

wagnerrp:

its by analog

[01:34:15]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to digital

[01:34:28]

wagnerrp:

when did youtube get video ads?

[01:35:12]

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[01:35:51]

jolaren:

wagnerrp; the term is vague to me.. i dont understand

[01:36:08]

wagnerrp:

DVB is digital, PAL is analog

[01:37:11]

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[01:37:42]

jolaren:

ok

[01:37:46]

jolaren:

Thank you

[01:39:13]

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[01:41:10]

jolaren:

Just to clarify this.. i.e Hauppauge WinTV NOVA-T PCI would be able to decode HD channels?

[01:41:31]

wagnerrp:

no, its only able to record DVB-T channels

[01:41:45]

wagnerrp:

it has no decoder

[01:41:46]

dashcloud:

cesman: thanks for the link- I tried it out, and it does work on the Wii (latest updated Internet Channel + .22 myth backend)

[01:41:56]

wagnerrp:

and the resolution of those channels is irrelevant

[01:42:20]

wagnerrp:

demodulation is done by the tuner card during time of capture

[01:42:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

sid3windr: Did you get your monsterously large 'mailbox full' reply from him? ;-)

[01:42:41]

wagnerrp:

decoding is done by the CPU or graphics card (in the case of XvMC or VDPAU) at the time of playback

[01:43:31]

jolaren:

How does that work when running it from a server? Who takes the fall for massive usage

[01:43:35]

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[01:43:36]

jolaren:

the server or me the client

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[01:44:17]

wagnerrp:

when using a digital tuner, the tuner demodulates the signal, and dumps the raw mpeg over the PCI/PCIe/USB bus

[01:44:27]

wagnerrp:

the server may do some minor processing

[01:44:36]

jolaren:

Ok, I understand

[01:44:45]

wagnerrp:

but it really doesnt have to do much more than dump the stream straight to the hard drive

[01:45:00]

wagnerrp:

the heavy usage comes during decoding/playback on the frontend

[01:46:27]

jolaren:

I see, how much hdd is required for dump? Like how much does it dump

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[01:47:04]

jolaren:

If I'm bugging you then please let me know ; It's not my intention

[01:47:09]

wagnerrp:

dvb-t is going to be somewhere between 1–3MB/s

[01:47:34]

wagnerrp:

or maybe as low as 125KB/s for a low bitrate stream

[01:48:05]

jolaren:

And does that go on the frontend or the backend?

[01:48:42]

wagnerrp:

the backend interfaces with the tuner hardware, and handles recording

[01:48:54]

wagnerrp:

the frontend interfaces with video output, and handles playback

[01:49:46]

jolaren:

1–3MB/s equals alot of data, how much does it record?

[01:49:59]

wagnerrp:

however long the show is

[01:51:11]

jolaren:

Oh, so It's only show by show wise.. I understand

[01:51:12]

jolaren:

Great

[01:51:25]

wagnerrp:

so 30 minutes is going to be anywhere from maybe 400MB to 5GB

[01:51:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

jolaren: Here in the US, HD MPEG2 is about 5–7GB/hour – SD off of a hardware encoding card (Hauppauge PVR-500) at 400x480 resolution is about 3GB/hr.

[01:51:33]

wagnerrp:

depending on the bitrate of the broadcaster

[01:51:50]

wagnerrp:

with a digital tuner, you do no processing

[01:51:55]

J-e-f-f-A:

^^ exactly. Or if you capture analog, depending on your bitrate and resolution settings.

[01:51:59]

wagnerrp:

so you get the raw stream straight from the broadcaster

[01:52:02]

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[01:52:16]

wagnerrp:

which is why there is next to no system load on digital recordings

[01:53:59]

J-e-f-f-A:

jolaren: This is an old article, but it's still relevant: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/mythtv,1321-2.html

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[01:55:34]

wagnerrp:

you may also want to check out the Executive Overview on the wiki

[01:57:06]

jolaren:

Thank you lads for your help

[01:57:25]

jolaren:

There's alot of cards on the swedish market which indicated their the only one to work with dvb-t

[01:57:32]

jolaren:

or I mean

[01:57:33]

jolaren:

play hd

[01:58:01]

jolaren:

I mean there's a Hauppauge WinTV NOVA-T 500 and then there's a Hauppauge WinTV NOVA-T 500-HD

[01:58:49]

jolaren:

but they can both do the same things as from what i've understood here

[02:04:12]

jolaren:

does mythtv or their dev team take donations ?

[02:09:39]

skd5aner:

jolaren: no, they don't – unless maybe you are funding a specific effort they agree to

[02:09:42]

J-e-f-f-A:

jolaren: ps: looks like the "HD" version of the card includes a decoder chip and a HD output, which wouldn't be used by Myth AFAIK. ;-) (Gleaned from googling – here's one thread that's a little over a year old about the two cards: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/348385 )

[02:13:23]

jolaren:

They both do exactly the same thing only you need an apropiate codec for the none hd one

[02:13:27]

jolaren:

That's not fair gaming

[02:13:52]

jolaren:

:P

[02:14:42]

jolaren:

I'm going to run out tomorrow and stick that pci card into my server and give it a go

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elmojo:

can anyone out there confirm if latest trunk has an issue creating seek tables for avi files using mythtranscode or mythcommflag?

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[03:02:47]

adamw:

wow, that was pretty neat. got a mythtv+firewire setup done in about four hours. :)

[03:02:55]

** adamw is impressed **

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doje:

hello, how should I diagnose why the guide freezes during live tv?

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cesman:

doje: you need to start looking at your logs

[05:13:28]

cesman:

most likely in /var/log/mythtv

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[09:30:58]

** justinh puts £10 on LCARS winning **

[09:32:32]

justinh:

but those rounded parts at the extreme left hand side are still badly aliased. heh

[09:33:44]

Dibblah:

I thought someone was working on an LCARS theme... 3 years ago?

[09:34:15]

justinh:

yeah dagmar started one but ran into ui limitations

[09:34:26]

justinh:

he was way ahead of his time

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[09:37:34]

justinh:

I mentioned those nasty aliased bits last year but gbutters shrugged it off. 5 mins putting them right will pay off IMHO

[09:38:20]

justinh:

it'll be GIMP's fault, it's good at that. Expect that was what caused the lumpiness in a lot of original mythtv ui graphics in the past too

[09:41:39]

Tanthrix:

You'll pry mythcenter from my cold dead hands! (Though, it seems it has already been pried away in a sense.)

[09:41:58]

Tanthrix:

I just think any themes that have photographs in them look tacky. Now, LCARS...that would be awesome for about 5 minutes. ;)

[09:42:27]

justinh:

it's the only eligible one I've seen which is in any way mould-breaking

[09:42:36]

Tanthrix:

Got a link?

[09:42:49]

justinh:

http://img204.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplay . . . =lcars2o.png

[09:44:01]

[Peter]:

is there a page somewhere with all the entries?

[09:44:06]

justinh:

not yet

[09:44:21]

Tanthrix:

TNG-era LCARS, I see. Personally, I like the Voyager era LCARS a bit better since it's a bit less 80s looking.

[09:44:45]

justinh:

never seen Veeger

[09:45:01]

justinh:

never wanted to, prolly never will :)

[09:45:03]

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[09:45:08]

Tanthrix:

Nifty, though I don't think I could ever be happy with an LCARS for serious use. As a serious trekky, I've made many attempts over the years to use various apps with LCARS skins, but it's never worked out. An intrinsically silly UI, I'd say.

[09:45:45]

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[09:46:02]

justinh:

I'd be inclined to agree

[09:46:10]

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[09:46:11]

Tanthrix:

I made this like 10 years ago, just for fun: http://novae-res.org/final.html

[09:46:12]

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[09:46:21]

justinh:

but of themes in the competition I'd *use* none come near the mark

[09:46:47]

Tanthrix:

Where "made" is == to ripped off various pre-existing vector stuff. Think I used some sort of flash decompiler to get the voyager graphic off of startrek.com

[09:46:50]

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[09:46:50]

justinh:

the 'Skinz' have already started to appear IMHO

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[09:47:40]

justinh:

btw here's my competition entry -oh but the actual thing will have a different background image.. and... MEH

[09:48:41]

justinh:

people are prolly thinking..ok where's *mine* then. Ah well.. see... I'm not eligible because I still have commit access for one :P

[09:49:03]

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[09:49:06]

Tanthrix:

Hehe

[09:50:51]

Tanthrix:

If I had the time, I'd like to make a new mythcenter theme. Basically what mythcenter is now (all the defaults) with a few tweaks to fix some of the crazy defaults

[09:51:13]

Tanthrix:

Colors, for instance.

[09:51:30]

justinh:

the problem with mythcenter is that it relies on the default xml files & graphics so much.. which ain't had that much time or attention lavished on them

[09:52:45]

Tanthrix:

Well, the graphics could probably use a bit of improving, but I still think it's a wonderful UI. Not to disparge whoever worked on Terra, but I was utterly shocked when I upgraded and saw that was the default theme.

[09:53:05]

justinh:

that rectangle selectbar image is yucky in the extreme

[09:53:13]

Tanthrix:

But, as I said, I'm resistant to change without a damned good reason, so I'm not a big fan of changing UIs anyway just for kicks. Polishing yes, but total revamping I'm not a fan of.

[09:53:53]

[Peter]:

The main menu navigation in Terra is really confusing without animations

[09:54:17]

Tanthrix:

And the pictures! It's kind of like an uncanny valley thing. Nice madeup icons are great, weird public domain images of a rack of DVDs looks tacky IMHO.

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[09:55:08]

justinh:

I never wanted this to turn into a slanging match, that's why I was careful to only mention what I *like*

[09:55:18]

Tanthrix:

Though, to be fair, there are some nifty things in Terra that make it feel more modern.

[09:55:23]

justinh:

remember the reason I got out?!

[09:55:50]

ivor:

you couldn't handle the fame?

[09:55:50]

Tanthrix:

Yah, sorry, it's useless to complain and so fourth. Especially about themes which are so subjective in many ways.

[09:56:07]

justinh:

many ways? they're *completely* subjective man

[09:56:18]

justinh:

much like UIs actually :)

[09:56:47]

justinh:

one man's mythcenter is another man's poison, to misquote a popular expression

[09:56:52]

Tanthrix:

I'll try and quiet myself for now...until I get up the gusto to make my own theme. Then I'll start the complaining, having earned the right to do so! ;)

[09:57:25]

justinh:

if nothing else at least the competition has spurred some people to at least have a go

[09:57:37]

justinh:

people's 1st themes are rarely all that. I know mine wasn't

[09:57:46]

Tanthrix:

Well, there are many objective aspects to a UI. IE, how well can a newbie pick it up and learn it – how fast does it load resources wise – how quick is it to perform a set of typical tasks.

[09:57:53]

justinh:

or my 2nd,3rd, 4th or 5th

[09:59:22]

Tanthrix:

Terra aside, I am insanely impressed with 0.22-fixes. This VDPAU stuff is excellent, and my hd-pvr has been working like a dream for a few days now.

[09:59:51]

Tanthrix:

Myth sure has come a long way in the past 5 years. I keep thinking "well, what else is there" only to be wowed again.

[10:02:01]

Tanthrix:

So, could someone give me a basic primer on what I would need to do to test out this patch? http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7425#comment:6

[10:02:16]

justinh:

yep, and now folks are ironing out a lot of what I'd call little everyday annoyances :-)

[10:02:18]

Tanthrix:

Is it a simple matter of getting the most recent trunk, then somehow applying the patch and compiling?

[10:02:34]

justinh:

Tanthrix: assuming the patch still applies yes

[10:03:22]

Tanthrix:

justinh: From a technical standpoint, how does one go about applying the patch?

[10:03:37]

justinh:

patch -p1 < patch.patch

[10:03:43]

justinh:

or something

[10:04:00]

justinh:

assuming you're in the right dir when you do it :)

[10:04:23]

[Peter]:

trying with --dry-run first is usually a good idea

[10:04:36]

Tanthrix:

Is there a wiki page somewhere on this stuff?

[10:04:54]

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[10:04:57]

justinh:

[Peter]: why? it's not like you can't just revert it

[10:05:08]

justinh:

I've never bothered with --dry-run

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[10:06:53]

[Peter]:

justinh: I've had some cases where reverting half-applied patches has been a bitch. but yes, revert usually works

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[10:09:47]

Tanthrix:

Well, thanks for the info. I'll see about giving a go this weekend. It's a relatively minor patch, so I could always do it manually if need be.

[10:11:06]

justinh:

wonder what I'll opt to hack up next

[10:13:58]

Tanthrix:

Gotta figure something out! Not having some sort of active project is a good way to go insane ;)

[10:14:34]

justinh:

meh

[10:15:22]

justinh:

I found plenty better things to do than hang out here all the time didn't I?

[10:16:24]

Tanthrix:

Well, I didn't say the project had to be myth / computer related.

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[10:18:41]

justinh:

got plenty on my to-do list as it is. I have a room full of vinyl to digitise, so I can store it & make way for turning the room into a nursery

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[10:19:05]

justinh:

also have to find a new home for the backend, the printer...

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[10:39:53]

Tanthrix:

justinh: Make sure to setup a crib mounted front end. Star them off with myth and tv brain rot as early as possible ;)

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[10:47:24]

justinh:

I'd rather they grow up not being addicted to teevee

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[10:51:57]

justinh:

oh god no http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8483136.stm

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rambo3:

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TauPan:

*g*

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JoshBorke:

rambo3: seriously? try it and see

[14:43:48]

sid3windr:

roflol

[14:43:51]

sid3windr:

nice one =)

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rambo3:

wat

[15:18:44]

rambo3:

syntax hero

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[15:35:38]

Lt_Dan:

Yes or no question: Do recordings have to be MPEG (or .nuv)? If I was to have a userjob that, in essence, externally transcoded a recording "in place" would the resultant recording file need to be in an MPEG container for the Internal Player (using Watch Recordings) to like it or is it as accepting as in MythVideo mode?

[15:38:11]

justinh:

eh?

[15:38:39]

justinh:

it'll play anything the internal player can play

[15:38:51]

justinh:

helps if the file also has a seek table though

[15:40:48]

Lt_Dan:

ok. i plan to run mythcommflag --rebuild on it after i transcode.

[15:41:05]

GreyFoxx:

Lt_Dan: As long as you update the seek table and the filename in the database the container wont matter (Assuming myth can handle it)

[15:41:48]

iamlindoro:

note that some containers are broken by generating a seektable

[15:41:48]

Lt_Dan:

cool. thanks guys. i have a broadcast channel that, for some reason, Myth hates (thinks it's twice as long as it is, along with the video showing scrambled)

[15:41:50]

iamlindoro:

like MKV

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[15:43:09]

Lt_Dan:

but mencoder/mplayer don't have a problem, so I was going to setup a user job to convert it to <something>. I'll probably use H.264 inside mpeg-ts anyway, but wanted to make sure if i chose mp4 or soemthing it'd be alright

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[15:44:38]

Lt_Dan:

at some point, i'll roll up my sleves and help figure out what is wrong with the broadcaster's feed (note I do NOT blame Myth), but I'll throw this kluge in the meantime

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[17:30:34]

wagnerrp:

when you use the 'dont delete, autoexpire' setting, whatever its called

[17:30:40]

elmojo:

sphery: do you recall what the problem was with build mkv seektables? any tickets?

[17:30:46]

wagnerrp:

does that move stuff into a separate storage group when you delete things?

[17:30:57]

wagnerrp:

or does it just mark the 'deletepending' field in the database

[17:31:03]

sphery:

"Auto Expire Instead of Delete Recording"

[17:31:56]

sphery:

elmojo: janneg mentioned that mkv often has H.264 format that we don't understand, so when we run mythtranscode on those mkv's, we end up creating a completely empty seektable

[17:31:58]

wagnerrp:

i mean can you make a 'Deleted' storage group that they will be moved to if it exists

[17:32:08]

wagnerrp:

like how livetv will automatically go to the LiveTV sg if it exists

[17:32:20]

sphery:

and since the DB has a seektable, we use that rather than libav* seeking

[17:32:50]

elmojo:

sphery: we don't use our own parser to generate seek tables

[17:32:55]

sphery:

wagnerrp: it puts the recording into a Deleted recgroup (no translation in DB)

[17:33:08]

mag0o:

on ticket 7974, the same thing happens when switching from Qt to OpenGL Painter

[17:33:15]

elmojo:

sphery: I'll do some tests on my end...

[17:33:39]

sphery:

iamlindoro would be a better source of info--he actually has mkv stuff and has some that were affected

[17:33:52]

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[17:33:53]

wagnerrp:

sphery: just looking for some way to mark this recent 'backend wishlist' request as already supported

[17:34:03]

sphery:

mag0o: is Trac working for you?

[17:34:07]

sphery:

it's dead to me

[17:34:09]

mag0o:

yes

[17:34:12]

wagnerrp:

but i guess you would just need any backup solution as myth-aware

[17:34:16]

wagnerrp:

dead to me

[17:34:17]

mag0o:

was a couple mins ago

[17:34:19]

mag0o:

let me check again

[17:34:26]

wagnerrp:

was up a couple minutes ago though

[17:34:34]

mag0o:

scratch that, dead now

[17:34:36]

sphery:

yeah, just died about 9 mins ago

[17:35:07]

sphery:

I pulled up one changeset and it worked and tried to pull up a ticket immediately after (like middle clicked both to get them in new tabs) and the ticket never came up

[17:35:12]

wagnerrp:

the server is up, and the load is minimal

[17:35:14]

sphery:

So, perhaps I killed it

[17:35:23]

wagnerrp:

apache is still running

[17:35:32]

sphery:

silly me, thinking I could click links on the web pages...

[17:35:55]

wagnerrp:

although the memory is full, and its half a gb into swap

[17:36:18]

sphery:

wagnerrp: note, also, if you change the recording group while in the PBB, it may not update or if it does, it may not be treated specially

[17:36:29]

sphery:

oh, wait, nvm...

[17:36:33]

sphery:

that was something else

[17:36:51]

sphery:

the "may not update" still holds true... the "or if it does" doesn't

[17:36:55]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the 'wish' was that items deleted for expiration would be moved to a new folder

[17:37:05]

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[17:37:05]

wagnerrp:

that could be skipped by some backup program

[17:37:09]

sphery:

ahhh

[17:37:16]

sphery:

you'd have to check the Deleted recgroup

[17:37:26]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the program would have to be myth-aware

[17:37:34]

sphery:

physically moving multi-gigabyte recordings would be /very/ cumbersome

[17:37:42]

sphery:

(when crossing fs boundaries)

[17:37:56]

sphery:

(or, worse, host boundaries)

[17:38:12]

GreyFoxx:

We could always autorename deleted files to DELETED_xxxxxxxxxxx.mpg whyen changing the recgroup

[17:38:18]

GreyFoxx:

then they could remote DELETED_*

[17:38:20]

GreyFoxx:

err remove

[17:39:03]

sphery:

my only request is that if we do, we never translate the "DELETED_" part. When non-ASCII character encodings and file systems are involved, we have a huge mess

[17:39:10]

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[17:39:13]

GreyFoxx:

heheh yeah

[17:40:05]

sphery:

wagnerrp: what about a mythrename.pl --link with "sort by recgroup" (such as '%U-%T-%Y%m%d-%H%i-%eH%ei-%S' ) and have the backup follow the links to the ones that aren't "Deleted"

[17:41:28]

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[17:42:00]

sphery:

mag0o: You're seeing the "frontend getting stuck changing between themes" thing?

[17:42:04]

sphery:

I can't reproduce it

[17:42:29]

sphery:

mag0o: do you have the issue in #7135 (i.e. defunct mythfrontend procs)?

[17:42:38]

mag0o:

yes, i see it here. it doesn't crash the frontend, it just hangs when swapping between themes, or changing the painter

[17:42:43]

mag0o:

let me check

[17:43:06]

mag0o:

no defunct procs

[17:43:19]

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[17:44:17]

sphery:

I was testing CPU usage on several themes last night (which, since the "fix" for the 7%/14% "bug", is now 20–60% idling in menu or in Watch Recordings on my system--which previously was unaffected by the 7%/14% issue), and I changed themes a bunch of times and never had a hang.

[17:44:41]

sphery:

I did have one hang trying to exit mythfrontend, though, so that may have been a manifestation of it

[17:45:12]

wagnerrp:

sphery: that would certainly work

[17:45:14]

sphery:

When I revert 23304 and 23317, my CPU usage goes back to 0–2% on main menu and Watch Recordings

[17:45:39]

sphery:

wagnerrp: cool... probably the easiest way for now (and, I prefer it over encoding data into filenames)

[17:45:40]

mag0o:

mfe hangs too when exiting

[17:45:46]

mag0o:

now that you mention it

[17:45:49]

sphery:

does it always hang?

[17:45:57]

mag0o:

yes

[17:46:06]

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[17:46:13]

sphery:

what's your cpu usage like?

[17:46:15]

wagnerrp:

mag0o: when exiting the frontend, or when exiting playback?

[17:46:24]

sphery:

has it gone sky high with recent changes or is it now lower?

[17:46:32]

sphery:

wagnerrp: for me when exiting frontend

[17:46:38]

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[17:46:43]

sphery:

though I only had it happen once

[17:46:51]

wagnerrp:

ah, i get stuck at that 'please wait...' screen exiting playback

[17:46:54]

wagnerrp:

consistently

[17:46:57]

mag0o:

exiting the frontend

[17:47:06]

sphery:

wagnerrp: you weren't affected by the high CPU usage issue, right?

[17:47:22]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, i havent checked

[17:47:29]

wagnerrp:

is that in all of mfe? or just the pbb?

[17:47:37]

sphery:

if not, are you now seeing /very/ high usage (like in the 20–60% range--at least for my Athlon X2 5000+)

[17:47:40]

mag0o:

right now, on the hang with changing themes, cpu usage is around 20–25%

[17:48:07]

sphery:

menu was 7% and PBB was 14%, IIRC, but now both are 20–60% for me

[17:48:08]

mag0o:

but thats actually mostly firefox

[17:48:18]

sphery:

hmmm....

[17:48:24]

sphery:

I was thinking it might have been a timing change

[17:48:37]

sphery:

if you previously got the 7%/14% issue, it may still be

[17:48:44]

sphery:

(assuming mfe is below 7% now)

[17:49:29]

** sphery hates when people cut the useful info from the top of the gdb backtraces **

[17:49:43]

mag0o:

want a whole trace?

[17:49:50]

wagnerrp:

well ive got two sitting on the main menu

[17:49:57]

wagnerrp:

one at 7%, one at 98%

[17:50:15]

sphery:

heh, so the one at 98% was probably unaffected by the CPU bug before

[17:50:59]

wagnerrp:

the other one is still at 7% in the PBB

[17:51:17]

sphery:

hold on a second... I'll get you guys a patch that will almost definitely fix it

[17:51:23]

sphery:

"fix" :)

[17:51:45]

wagnerrp:

im more confused by this 'please wait...' hang

[17:51:59]

wagnerrp:

both machines are running off the same boot image

[17:52:06]

wagnerrp:

one hangs, the other runs fine

[17:53:27]

wagnerrp:

here we go, 7% on the other machine too

[17:53:53]

wagnerrp:

looks like i never reset opengl when i reimaged them earlier this week

[17:53:56]

wagnerrp:

so it was running MESA

[17:54:17]

elmojo:

sphery: were you under the impression that when we specify --buildindex for mythtranscode that we should *only* build a seek table?

[17:55:51]

sphery:

elmojo: yes, only a seektable

[17:56:00]

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[17:56:11]

sphery:

wagnerrp: that's due to a race condition that's triggered by different timings

[17:56:14]

elmojo:

well the code tries to do a lot of unnecessary stuff

[17:56:37]

wagnerrp:

sphery: but all the reports ive seen of it have to do with use of VDPAU

[17:56:41]

wagnerrp:

which im not using

[17:56:43]

** sphery can't figure out how to get quilt diff --combine to work **

[17:56:44]

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[17:57:50]

mag0o:

http://childish.lynchmv.com/mfedgb_theme_change_success.log http://childish.lynchmv.com/mfedgb_theme_change_hung.log

[17:58:09]

mag0o:

i actually had a successful theme change with gdb running, then another when it hung

[17:59:10]

mag0o:

those are with -v important

[18:00:27]

lieuwe:

halp?

[18:00:47]

wagnerrp:

help what? you just got here and havent said anything yet

[18:03:05]

lieuwe:

wagnerrp: not? that message must've got lost then, anyhow i'm using mythtv on ubuntu, and i'm trying to get live tv, but everytime i select live tv it goes to wait please for a few secs and then back to the main menu, logs at http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/f62464bc7 i know that channel 216 isn't correct, but i just tried a crapload off different things there, i have a list off channels/frequencys if you need it...

[18:03:40]

wagnerrp:

heres the channel log.... http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1

[18:03:41]

sphery:

elmojo: I have a feeling that applying this patch will fix your can't theme change and exiting mythfrontend issues: http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/mythtv-79 . . . r_hack.patch (should apply, though I manually merged 2 patches, so I can't verify it's all perfect). It just reverts the timer hack that went in last week.

[18:03:48]

wagnerrp:

if you said something, it never came through

[18:04:11]

elmojo:

sphery: don't think you meant to send that to me

[18:04:27]

sphery:

lieuwe: and you're using MythTV trunk, right? The unstable development version not the stable release version (0.22-fixes), right?

[18:04:35]

sphery:

elmojo: sorry... that was for mag0o

[18:04:42]

lieuwe:

sphery: yah, why?

[18:04:45]

sphery:

mag0o: see above message about timer

[18:04:54]

sphery:

lieuwe: see above message about reverting timer hack

[18:05:06]

sphery:

I'm going to try to convince danielk to revert that change, anyway

[18:05:37]

sphery:

(if he ever reappears in IRC)

[18:05:53]

wagnerrp:

lieuwe: have you ever used mythtv before?

[18:06:05]

lieuwe:

wagnerrp: nope

[18:06:17]

wagnerrp:

then as sphery said, use -fixes

[18:06:18]

sphery:

you /really/ should be using the stable release version, then

[18:06:53]

sphery:

lieuwe: if you run trunk, you /really/ need to subscribe to and read all the messages coming through the -dev and -commits lists

[18:07:01]

wagnerrp:

also, that couple seconds of wait before dropping back to the menu indicates an improperly set up capture card

[18:07:02]

lieuwe:

sphery: mythbuntu recomended the beta's, i'll just downgrade then...

[18:07:09]

mag0o:

i'll rebuild and see if that does it

[18:07:13]

wagnerrp:

they better not be recommending the betas

[18:07:14]

lieuwe:

wagnerrp: it works in windowz

[18:07:24]

sphery:

lieuwe: are you sure you're running trunk, then?

[18:07:32]

sphery:

if you're running what they recommend, it should be 0.22-fixes

[18:07:35]

wagnerrp:

wait

[18:07:40]

wagnerrp:

are you trying to run a backend in windows?

[18:07:41]

sphery:

lieuwe: mythbackend --version and pastebin the results, please

[18:07:47]

wagnerrp:

sphery: hes running trunk

[18:07:53]

wagnerrp:

check out the schema version in the logs

[18:07:55]

wagnerrp:

1252

[18:08:04]

sphery:

lieuwe: and wagnerrp may be right about the issue you're seeing--it may be unrelated to what I mentioned

[18:08:20]

sphery:

ah, yeah, trunk

[18:08:55]

sid3windr:

(just a hint, why your first msg didn't come through is because the channel is +R and you probably hadn't identified to nickserv yet)

[18:09:53]

wagnerrp:

do we still need that?

[18:10:43]

elmojo:

sphery: I think what happens with mythtranscode is that it tries to transcode then build a seek table if requested

[18:11:06]

elmojo:

so it --buildseek doesn't disable the transcoding explicitly

[18:11:58]

elmojo:

some people might want to do both so I guess it's valid

[18:12:32]

elmojo:

but for videos that can not be transcoded it won't build a seektable either

[18:16:58]

sphery:

ahhh

[18:17:14]

sphery:

is this the same command-line-parsing problem you mentioned earlier?

[18:17:28]

sphery:

or is there something I need to look into for that

[18:17:56]

elmojo:

sphery: this is actually 0.22-fixes so it's the way it's always been

[18:17:58]

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[18:18:28]

sphery:

so does some command-line-parsing problem exist with mythtranscode?

[18:18:39]

sphery:

if not, that's good news :)

[18:18:53]

elmojo:

for trunk I'm not sure

[18:19:07]

sphery:

what was the issue you thought you saw on trunk?

[18:19:22]

sphery:

I moved a couple of files over to my dev box I can use for transcode tests

[18:19:28]

elmojo:

it's definitely broke for me on trunk... I have no idea why

[18:19:40]

sphery:

what happens? how do I reproduce?

[18:19:57]

elmojo:

I've asked others to see if they could build a seek table for an AVI and no one responded

[18:20:43]

elmojo:

mythtranscode --allkeys --buildindex --video --infile filename.avi

[18:20:57]

sphery:

and nothing happens?

[18:21:13]

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[18:21:49]

sphery:

seems I'm getting no progress

[18:22:03]

elmojo:

basically attempts to transcode and just hangs

[18:22:10]

elmojo:

shouldn't be doing that in the first place

[18:22:16]

sphery:

is taking 32% of CPU

[18:22:18]

elmojo:

in 0.22-fixes it doesn't do that

[18:22:33]

elmojo:

at any rate it's some form of a regression

[18:22:49]

sphery:

worked for me

[18:23:00]

sphery:

only issue was the "0-byte temp file was created"

[18:23:03]

sphery:

(we have a ticket for that)

[18:23:07]

wagnerrp:

elmojo: TBH, ive always used the commflagger when i needed to build a seektable

[18:23:26]

elmojo:

I think we should only support one or the other

[18:23:36]

sphery:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5110

[18:23:36]

elmojo:

and I couldn't get mythcommflagger to work either

[18:23:44]

sphery:

elmojo: agreed

[18:23:54]

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[18:23:54]

sphery:

we need to get a single program with all functionality

[18:24:23]

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[18:24:58]

sphery:

elmojo: did you use an absolute pathname with --infile? I think that's required

[18:25:28]

elmojo:

yes

[18:25:46]

elmojo:

that patch looks correct

[18:25:59]

sphery:

OK... It worked for me because of --mpeg2 (I was using an MPEG-2 file)

[18:26:07]

sphery:

when I don't say --mpeg2, it transcodes

[18:26:19]

elmojo:

although it'd be better to just not try to transcode in the first place which wouldn't leave an empty tmp file behind in the first place

[18:26:25]

sphery:

which makes sense since mythtranscode supports MPEG-2 and NUV only

[18:26:36]

sphery:

I think for avi files, you'd need to use mythcommflag

[18:26:44]

sphery:

but depending on what's inside, it may not work well at all

[18:27:09]

elmojo:

this is too confusing

[18:27:10]

sphery:

I'll look at 5110 today and see if I can get it in

[18:27:15]

sphery:

elmojo: agreed...\

[18:27:43]

elmojo:

sphery: like I say a better approach is to not transcode if --buildindex is specified

[18:27:51]

sphery:

I think Captain_Murdoch wants to creat a new program(s) for doing these miscellaneous things rather than tacking them onto some other "unrelated" binary

[18:28:02]

elmojo:

and 5110 has nothing to do with what I'm trying to get accomplished

[18:28:16]

elmojo:

that would be great

[18:28:35]

wagnerrp:

elmojo: well shouldnt all this be moot with your seeking improvements?

[18:28:43]

sphery:

elmojo: I'd be all for disabling transcode with --buildindex and requiring a user to call it 2x (once without to transcode and once with to build seektable). Ask Captain_Murdoch if he'd agree. He's the one who would likely approve it.

[18:29:12]

elmojo:

wagnerrp: there is always the chance that ffmpeg doesn't seek properly and someone might want to build a seek table to compensate

[18:29:17]

sphery:

though, really, it may make sense to always build a seektable after transcode when seektables are useful and not requiring the user to know

[18:29:19]

elmojo:

it's nice to have the option

[18:30:24]

sphery:

heh, "You are my hero! This is going to increase my WAF by Warp 9"

[18:30:28]

sphery:

(for LCARS theme)

[18:30:52]

elmojo:

sphery: I've fixed what I intended which is too make avi seektables work properly... just noticed all these other oddities along the way

[18:30:58]

elmojo:

I personally don't use the stuff

[18:31:26]

wagnerrp:

i thought it was 'warp factor 9'

[18:32:00]

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[18:32:05]

elmojo:

sphery: since mkv seek table support doesn't work I can easily detect an exit with a message if you'd like

[18:32:22]

elmojo:

would prevent people from doing it and a log message to explain... might cut down on tickets

[18:33:16]

sphery:

janneg would be the one to ask. He last told me: sphery: seek tables for mkv should generally work. they don't work for h264 in mkv since we can't parse the bitstream format mkv/mov/mp4 use to store h264

[18:33:41]

sphery:

so I think the idea is to make them work, but it makes sense for ones we know we can't parse to do nothing

[18:33:54]

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[18:33:54]

sphery:

(until we can parse them)

[18:34:00]

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[18:34:50]

sphery:

guess I should have quoted him long before because his answer is far more meaningful than my half-recollection of what he said :)

[18:34:50]

elmojo:

sphery: the seek tables (at least with mythtranscode) are built using ffmpeg and not our parser so I don't understand that comment

[18:35:19]

sphery:

I'll say it's way, way beyond my understanding of player/parse/myth/ffmpeg stuff :)

[18:35:35]

elmojo:

but maybe on the playback side there is something I'm missing

[18:41:03]

mag0o:

sphery: *excellent*

[18:41:20]

mag0o:

i can now swap between themes and painters and exit mfe without hanging

[18:44:11]

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[18:44:36]

janneg:

no, I would prefer if seeking in .mkv would just work without seektables

[18:47:21]

Captain_Murdoch:

transcoding should (re)build the index, but --buildindex shouldn't transcode. and yeah, it would be nice if we had a helper program that this and other code moved into but that'd be low on my priority list so I never have looked into it.

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[18:51:28]

elmojo:

janneg: seeking in mkv seems to work in matroska just fine for everything I have

[18:51:29]

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[18:51:45]

elmojo:

no seek tables should be needed

[18:53:28]

elmojo:

janneg: in fact if you do an lseek in a matroska file it will cause the matroska decoder to fail and exit

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[19:01:07]

sphery:

mag0o: and you said your CPU usage by mythfrontend wasn't huge before reverting those changesets

[19:02:22]

mag0o:

correct

[19:02:40]

mag0o:

less than 25%, and firefox was using most of that

[19:05:38]

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[19:08:59]

sphery:

ok, thanks

[19:19:01]

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[19:19:03]

AnNahar:

help friends

[19:19:11]

AnNahar:

Starting mythbackend: chown: invalid user: `mythtv:mythtv'

[19:19:16]

AnNahar:

how do i recreate that user/group properly?

[19:21:15]

superm1:

AnNahar, did you start with some packages?

[19:21:22]

AnNahar:

yum install mythtv stuff

[19:21:32]

superm1:

ah not sure on the rpm world, sorry

[19:21:47]

superm1:

they probably have some postinstall hooks though that you need to rerun

[19:22:00]

superm1:

(if you were on a *buntu, dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-common would normally do it)

[19:22:24]

AnNahar:

i have mythtv-common installed

[19:22:47]

elmojo:

Captain_Murdoch, janneg: thanks I'll put together a patch that bypasses transcoding when we specify --buildindex for mythtranscode and also disallow mkv seek table building

[19:27:15]

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[19:29:00]

elmojo:

sphery: applying #5110 may not make since if I provide a patch that avoids transcoding when using --buildindex

[19:29:07]

elmojo:

err, sense

[19:29:58]

sphery:

elmojo: ah, cool

[19:30:00]

sphery:

then I'll wait

[19:30:09]

sphery:

(it has some things I was needing to clean up, anyway)

[19:30:13]

elmojo:

I'll try to get it ready later today

[19:30:20]

sphery:

great.... thx

[19:30:25]

sphery:

now I can test #7315

[19:30:39]

sphery:

(test reproducing the bug, as there's no patch, yet :)

[19:35:20]

AnNahar:

man, i dont know how to get it to create that user/group

[19:36:03]

sphery:

AnNahar: might want to ask on your distro forum/irc channel

[19:36:19]

wagnerrp:

im pretty sure that redhat/fedora run mythtv as root

[19:36:19]

sphery:

I'm sure there's an rpm command to redo it for you

[19:36:25]

wagnerrp:

meaning there is no 'mythtv' user

[19:36:48]

Hiisty:

AnNahar: adduser mythtv

[19:36:49]

sphery:

AnNahar: ah, yeah, if you edited the script to tell it to run as mythtv, it may require separate configuration (and, IIRC, much won't work)

[19:37:10]

sphery:

I think there was a section commented out to tell it to run as mythtv, but it was commented because it doesn't work

[19:37:21]

sphery:

(which is why the packages won't set up mythtv user)

[19:37:50]

AnNahar:

Hiisty: what about password, shell, etc?

[19:38:13]

sphery:

AnNahar: still, should ask in your distro forum/irc because it's likely to not work

[19:38:24]

sphery:

even if you create the user (you'll be breaking mythtv)

[19:38:41]

AnNahar:

basically, i restored the database on this new machine

[19:38:43]

AnNahar:

then installed myth

[19:38:50]

AnNahar:

so that's why i assume it's calling on that user/pass

[19:38:53]

AnNahar:

err group

[19:39:32]

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[19:39:33]

sphery:

user/password is specified by the script that starts mythbackend/mythfrontend, not by the mythtv settings

[19:39:49]

Hiisty:

AnNahar: useradd foo, then passwd foo

[19:39:54]

Hiisty:

as root

[19:39:55]

sphery:

only DB user is specified in any mythtv-related settings and that would never be used with chown

[19:40:06]

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[19:41:09]

AnNahar:

thanks all

[19:41:10]

AnNahar:

bbl

[19:41:10]

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[19:46:27]

jolaren:

What exactly are you allowed to speak of here? I have a ubuntu server that I run my tv channels on so that I can watch them on my other computer. My other computer doesnt have a pci input so i dont use it for the card.. Is it okay to ask question regarding i.e carsharing but within my own network?

[19:49:11]

sphery:

if you mean CAM card sharing using softcam, then, no, as it's most likely a violation of the terms of service of your contract with your service provider

[19:49:33]

sphery:

they want you to buy/rent multiple cam cards

[19:50:06]

sphery:

(and even if it's not violating your ToS, it violates the vast majority of them, so we don't want discussion here)

[19:50:55]

high-rez:

I didn't even think myth (letalone the dvb api) had any cam support.

[19:51:09]

sphery:

we support hardware CAM

[19:51:31]

jolaren:

In your own network it's legal? Atleast in Sweden

[19:51:34]

sphery:

no support for the softcam patches that exist in dark, shady areas of the Internet. Those are explicitly frowned upon.

[19:51:42]

sphery:

jolaren: well, it's not for a lot of areas

[19:52:19]

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[19:52:27]

high-rez:

sphery: No kidding? What kind of devices does this work on?

[19:52:56]

high-rez:

I didn't even think that it was possible with the dvb api.

[19:53:16]

sphery:

basically only the ones where dvb supports it

[19:53:34]

iamlindoro:

jolaren: I had a discussion with you about our rules yesterday, I hope that that's not something I have to do with you every day

[19:53:43]

sphery:

high-rez: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/418350#418350

[19:54:03]

jolaren:

iamlindoro; Yes, I wanted clarifications as I took the liberty to checkup on what's legal and what not

[19:54:18]

jolaren:

From what I've seen even in the US cardsharing within your own home is legal

[19:54:37]

iamlindoro:

jolaren: wrong. Last warning

[19:54:45]

sphery:

jolaren: whether it's legal or not, it's almost definitely a violation of terms of service/the service contract (at least in the US)

[19:54:49]

GreyFoxx:

jolaren: They don't have cams in the US

[19:55:04]

GreyFoxx:

so anything you do has to circumvent their encryption./drm

[19:55:04]

sphery:

oh, yeah, and there's that :)

[19:55:34]

sphery:

which would be in violation of the DMCA in the US, which makes it a federal felony offense

[19:55:34]

GreyFoxx:

which is a violation of US law where (unfortunately?) myth is based and as such we don't want to put any members of the project a risk by actually supporting such things

[19:55:53]

GreyFoxx:

as like it or not the US devs will be the ones who are attacked if they are seen as aiding or complicit in it

[19:57:19]

sphery:

basically, we don't condone stealing copyrighted content (copyright violations) nor stealing services (terms of service violations)

[19:57:53]

sphery:

and, even for those users who believe they aren't doing either, allowing discussion here would imply that we do condone such acts

[19:58:54]

sphery:

yay!!! I seem to have finally reproduced #7315

[19:59:15]

jams:

bit off topic, but has anybody else seen that youtube video of the kid explaining tracer-t

[19:59:41]

GreyFoxx:

not me.... never even heard of tracer-t ?

[19:59:46]

jams:

otherwise known as tracert on windows

[19:59:57]

sphery:

heh

[19:59:59]

GreyFoxx:

ahhh

[20:00:03]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[20:00:27]

jams:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmv8quf_xM

[20:00:35]

jams:

it's safe for work

[20:00:42]

jams:

amusing and sad all in one

[20:01:18]

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[20:01:23]

GreyFoxx:

hehehe little kids teaching little kids :)

[20:01:32]

GreyFoxx:

see his photo ?:)

[20:02:10]

sphery:

kind of like the stupid GPS text-to-speech (*cough*Magellan*cough*) that say, "Doctor Martin Luther King, Junior, Doctor" whatever (i.e. you'd think on a GPS TTS they'd make it say, "Dr." as "Drive" by default

[20:02:10]

iamlindoro:

NextGenHacker01

[20:02:12]

iamlindoro:

haha

[20:02:13]

jams:

i did

[20:02:23]

GreyFoxx:

this is awesome :)

[20:02:26]

iamlindoro:

Future Dagmars Of America Ltd.

[20:02:58]

iamlindoro:

Ow the wrongs

[20:03:06]

jams:

hahaa, just lol'd on a conf call

[20:03:08]

GreyFoxx:

hahahaha I love it

[20:03:17]

jams:

should have been muted

[20:03:32]

iamlindoro:

"10 people are currently using google..."

[20:04:05]

sphery:

"cmd, of course"

[20:04:11]

jams:

i love the http://

[20:04:19]

iamlindoro:

"Four people from that one server are all looking at google"

[20:04:37]

iamlindoro:

"All these guys that timed out, I can't look at it, because my connection's not as good as theirs"

[20:04:45]

sphery:

"semicolon, slash, slash... well, not semicolon. the little dot dot"

[20:05:24]

sphery:

heh, just got to the "10 people..."

[20:06:54]

sphery:

comments, "Wow, this is great. You should try launching a DDoS against the first ip adres." [sic]

[20:08:11]

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[20:09:16]

** kormoc facepalms **

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[20:19:45]

mag0o:

wow, this video is completely hilarious

[20:20:49]

mag0o:

"my connection's not as good as theirs"

[20:24:17]

stevieman:

hello

[20:24:23]

stevieman:

I just rebuilt my myth box with the latest release of mythbuntu and I have 2 problems. Both are related to videos I have on my HD. First when I goto watch the videos I have 2 options 'Storage Groups' and TV. I used to have 'Movies' and 'TV'. Inside 'Storage Groups' I have 'Movies' and 'TV'. Both 'TV' options contain parts of the TV directory on the HD. It's like myth has split the directory in it's DB or something. The second problem I have is in

[20:26:45]

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[20:26:52]

sphery:

did Captain_Murdoch make a MythProto command to delete a file not in the recorded table?

[20:27:17]

sphery:

stevieman: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo_.22_Transition_Guide

[20:27:49]

sphery:

and 2nd problem didn't come through (IRC has a length limit and you need to set your client to break long messages)

[20:28:21]

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[20:28:24]

mag0o:

btw, google has an answer for the iPad: http://i.imgur.com/PtGZT.jpg

[20:29:04]

sphery:

so did Mad TV, but it's NSFW

[20:29:05]

stevieman:

Sorry the first problem is the weirdness in the videos directory, new storage groups and the split of the TV directory, the second problem was the duplicate entries in Movies

[20:29:20]

sphery:

stevieman: check out the guide I linked

[20:29:31]

sphery:

it's probably what you're looking for for both

[20:30:44]

stevieman:

sphery: I'm checking it out now. The strange thing is this didn't happen with the last Mythbunut RC canidate

[20:32:01]

sphery:

you're now on 0.22-fixes?

[20:32:16]

sphery:

there were quite a few updates (probably even since the rc snapshot in 9.10)

[20:32:33]

sphery:

if you mean you're using trunk, you probably shouldn't be

[20:34:59]

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[20:37:33]

mrand:

stevieman: to obtain all the low risk bug fixes that have gone into 0.22-fixes, enable 0.22 auto-builds as described here: http://www.mythbuntu.org/auto-builds

[20:37:42]

stevieman:

sphery: I grabbed the latest ISO release from the mythbuntu website

[20:38:37]

stevieman:

mrand: I did that and the updates killed my system again. Everytime I try a web based release update it never works

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[20:43:14]

Hiisty:

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[21:11:44]

MartinJT:

quick question... mythvideo... random trailers... does it work with storage groups?

[21:12:11]

wagnerrp:

should, it just pulls one out of the Trailers storage group

[21:12:41]

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[21:12:50]

skd5aner:

ugh – I hate Time Warner Cable

[21:13:35]

skd5aner:

just got off the phone with the CSR, $10/mo for any additional STB :P

[21:14:13]

skd5aner:

not to mention he had no clue what IEEE 1394 or Firewire was, so he couldn't tell me what their latest firewire capable box was

[21:14:22]

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[21:14:40]

skd5aner:

I mean, $120/yr to lease a cable box – rediculous

[21:14:52]

MartinJT:

i just generally hate customer service teams...

[21:14:58]

MartinJT:

support teams...

[21:14:58]

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[21:15:12]

skd5aner:

that wasn't even the DVR – I think he mentioned that was $15–20 month :-O

[21:15:13]

MartinJT:

generally anything with "Team" in the title...

[21:15:55]

skd5aner:

well, I didn't hate "him" – generally pleasant – just not educated on the technology he sells, and it's TWC who sets the crazy pricing schemes

[21:15:59]

MartinJT:

team to me, means... I can't do it myself, so lets get lots of people together and hopefully one of them will know...

[21:16:01]

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[21:16:33]

skd5aner:

I also asked if I could provide my own STB, he said "no – why would you want to do that?" – My reply being: "Why would I want to pay $120/yr to 'rent' yours?"

[21:17:01]

MartinJT:

I used to work in an electrical store here in the uk, and our Customer Service team read from a script... I know, because i saw the damn thing!

[21:17:12]

sphery:

skd5aner: OTA ftw!

[21:17:14]

jduggan:

maplin?

[21:17:33]

sphery:

vote with your wallet--don't suport cable companies (and buy DVD's of the shows you like that are only available on cable)

[21:17:36]

MartinJT:

Comet

[21:17:43]

jduggan:

ah

[21:17:45]

jduggan:

well

[21:17:53]

skd5aner:

sphery: you'll be proud to know that I said at the end of the call: "Your STB rate alone makes me want to stand up my over-the-air antenna up even quicker now"

[21:17:54]

jduggan:

nobody should expect anything more

[21:17:56]

MartinJT:

mispent youth...

[21:17:57]

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[21:18:04]

J-e-f-f-A:

skd5aner: yeah, I've currently got SD Dish, and own my boxes. I pay $5/mo for each additional box to receive the sat service. If I switch to FiOS TV, I'm looking at $10/mo for each HD box I get...

[21:18:06]

sphery:

skd5aner: nice :)

[21:18:07]

jduggan:

if they had any clue they wouldnt be working on a shopfloor =]

[21:18:08]

skd5aner:

I've already wired for it

[21:18:20]

sphery:

skd5aner: now we just have to convince a few 100 million of our closest friends to do the same

[21:19:00]

MartinJT:

jduggan, if they had a clue, they wouldn't be working for comet!

[21:19:03]

** J-e-f-f-A wishes USA network was available OTA... :-( **

[21:19:27]

jduggan:

MartinJT: which is effectively what i said =]

[21:19:27]

kormoc:

J-e-f-f-A: I just told them that I wouldn't pay for the STB as I'm not paying for them via dish (I owned them) and they just waved the STB fee for me

[21:19:29]

skd5aner:

sphery: when I built the house this summer, I already wired with the intent of putting an antenna up

[21:19:48]

sphery:

I find that between the cost for the cable service and the cost for renting STB's, I can easily get all the shows I like on DVD and still come out ahead at the end of the year. Those with NetFlix or other could probably do the same for a larger number of cable-only shows, even

[21:19:54]

J-e-f-f-A:

kormoc: really?!? /me smiles... ;-)

[21:19:56]

** MartinJT revokes comment and hangs head... **

[21:20:11]

J-e-f-f-A:

kormoc: for HD boxes on FiOS?

[21:20:15]

kormoc:

J-e-f-f-A: aye

[21:20:28]

** J-e-f-f-A is going to try that... hehehehehehe **

[21:20:47]

skd5aner:

you gotta be willing to threaten to leave

[21:20:52]

skd5aner:

otherwise, you have no leverage

[21:21:14]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: could even try it with your satellite service

[21:21:21]

MartinJT:

i've just downloaded some leverage...

[21:21:23]

kormoc:

skd5aner: he's not a customer yet, so that's not a problem

[21:21:28]

MartinJT:

hehehe

[21:21:32]

skd5aner:

I have 1 STB now (included) – been using analog and QAM, and the STB just for backup until I got the HD-PVR

[21:21:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

skd5aner: I'm going to be leaving Dish to switch to FiOS TV... so that's the leverage – "Hey guys, do you really want me to switch to FiOS TV?" ;-)

[21:21:50]

skd5aner:

gotcha – thought you already had made the switch

[21:21:55]

skd5aner:

in that case, definitely

[21:22:20]

skd5aner:

I own 2 HD-PVRs, and would like to be able to have 2 STBs to hook the second one up to

[21:22:26]

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[21:22:28]

skd5aner:

but, for $10 month – screw it

[21:22:44]

J-e-f-f-A:

skd5aner: You can hook one up at my house if you like... ;-)

[21:22:46]

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[21:22:53]

skd5aner:

Maybe I'll look at Dish or DirecTV

[21:23:12]

MartinJT:

skd5aner, be thankful you don't live in the uk... we get minimal channels OTA, then £40 month for a sat service... (I think that's probably $60 ish)

[21:23:18]

abqjp:

Directv is an extra $5/month for each additional STB.

[21:23:23]

J-e-f-f-A:

skd5aner: I haven't seen DirecTV's HD, but Dish is excellent...

[21:23:23]

skd5aner:

J-e-f-f-A: if only we had "myth in the cloud" <har har, laugh laugh>

[21:23:44]

sphery:

if you have the HD-PVR's, dish and directv aren't really any more difficult than other cable stuff, now (since most cable is encrypting most everything)

[21:23:46]

MartinJT:

at that price I could probably buy them all on Bluray!

[21:24:03]

skd5aner:

J-e-f-f-A: my parents have had DirecTV since it came out like 20 years ago, the HD is "pretty good"

[21:24:16]

skd5aner:

I do see some compression artifacts from time to time that bug me, but they don't notice

[21:24:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

skd5aner: Hehehe... Well, when i switch to FiOS TV HD, my internet speed goes up from 15/2 to 20/5 [iirc], so I could probably stream my SD content without compression...

[21:24:48]

sphery:

are they recompressing or requantizing or something?

[21:25:02]

skd5aner:

Well – probably 65–75% of my recording rules are on broadcast TV (which I could get OTA)

[21:25:13]

abqjp:

Advantage of Directv is the ability to change channels via USB. Dish you have to use an IR blaster.

[21:25:16]

kormoc:

J-e-f-f-A: the 25/15 is pretty snazzy and I stream my hdpvr recordings ;)

[21:25:51]

sphery:

kormoc: and all the other people on the net you're using to connect to home hate you for it :)

[21:25:51]

J-e-f-f-A:

kormoc: What part of the US are you in? I'm in the boston area, really close to Jarod. ;-)

[21:25:53]

skd5aner:

I currently use firewire to change the channels on my SA3250HD STB from TWC

[21:26:06]

kormoc:

J-e-f-f-A: Seattle, WA

[21:26:17]

skd5aner:

no video out whatsoever (even on the free-to-air channels), but firewire port works well for channel changing

[21:27:01]

kormoc:

sphery: meh, I'm a bandwidth whore, I tend to transfer a tad over 1.2T per month right now, with all my side work, and for the past three years, Verizon hasn't said a word

[21:27:08]

skd5aner:

sperhy: I don't remember exactly what they do, but I know they are using some form of MPEG4 for all their HD channels, as their first gen HD capable receives were obsoleted a few years back when they switch codecs

[21:27:32]

skd5aner:

I think they are doing requant... not sure though

[21:27:55]

skd5aner:

low bitrates too I imagine, gotta fit a lot on a pipe from space

[21:28:26]

MartinJT:

so who's buying the iPad then?

[21:28:35]

kormoc:

Not I

[21:28:43]

kormoc:

and not the market (AAPL is down 4%)

[21:29:08]

MartinJT:

it's not on the market yet though is it?

[21:29:17]

skd5aner:

I think the iPad is pretty aweful, but that's just me

[21:29:20]

sphery:

kormoc: wow...

[21:29:30]

MartinJT:

thought it was actually released april?

[21:29:32]

abqjp:

skd5aner: if TWC has the channels you want, you are probably better off sticking with them. Directv just launched another satellite, so they will regain the lead as far as number of HD channels go, but Directv would probably cost you more than TWC.

[21:29:38]

skd5aner:

4x3 aspect ratio? no multitasking? no thank you

[21:29:44]

sphery:

skd5aner: yeah, makes sense

[21:30:10]

sphery:

and if they're doing mpeg-4, they at least have to recompress the OTA/local stuff

[21:30:17]

MartinJT:

i like the look of the rumored "Courier" from microsoft...

[21:30:18]

sphery:

as it would be a transcode

[21:30:19]

skd5aner:

"app store" based closed architecture, no flash support :P

[21:30:42]

sphery:

MartinJT: a new Courier? replacing Courier New?

[21:30:58]

MartinJT:

ba bum tsh....

[21:31:01]

skd5aner:

abqjp: that's the thing, they have most of the channels, but they don't have Commedy Central HD yet for example :P

[21:31:18]

skd5aner:

abqjp: and they're always fighting with Viacom and Fox when renewls come up

[21:31:36]

MartinJT:

skd5aner, but you can view all your purchased books on a virtual book shelf...

[21:31:47]

MartinJT:

is that not what everyone wants?

[21:32:04]

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[21:32:05]

skd5aner:

sphery: true, have to transcode that stuff

[21:32:16]

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[21:32:23]

skd5aner:

MartinJT: Does it have "coverflow"? Then of course, you sold me

[21:33:11]

skd5aner:

back to my rant on content providers – they all suck :P

[21:33:24]

MartinJT:

no, but it does have 10* hours of battery life...

[21:33:35]

skd5aner:

suuuuuuuuuuuuuure

[21:34:04]

MartinJT:

did you see what Mr Jobs was wearing when he presented it?

[21:34:11]

skd5aner:

sphery: you still doing all OTA stuff, right?

[21:34:30]

MartinJT:

scraggy jeans... making it look like he's "down with the kids"

[21:34:38]

skd5aner:

MartinJT: jeans and a black shirt?

[21:34:57]

MartinJT:

think it was red actually?

[21:35:06]

MartinJT:

only saw the jeans...

[21:35:22]

skd5aner:

wow – was there a press conference on his surprise wardrobe as well?

[21:35:44]

skd5aner:

MartinJT: haha, you just can't keep your eyes off of him from the waist down? ;)

[21:35:52]

MartinJT:

got more attention than the product launch...

[21:36:15]

MartinJT:

well.... what can I say, i'm on the market for a sugar daddy....

[21:36:22]

** skd5aner just pulled the trigger and finally bought a VPDAU capable card :-D **

[21:36:51]

sid3windr:

congrats, now that we're all going from vdpau to crystalhd....

[21:36:53]

MartinJT:

skd5aner, for a non PCI-e machine?

[21:36:53]

sid3windr:

;-)

[21:36:55]

sphery:

skd5aner: yeah, all OTA

[21:37:01]

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[21:37:29]

skd5aner:

sid3windr: saw the other day that someone did a comparison and not much difference (at this point) – also, I know just about next to nothing about crystalhd, enlighten me?

[21:37:35]

sid3windr:

hehe

[21:37:42]

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[21:37:42]

sid3windr:

no, I actually have only read a little bit about it here

[21:37:58]

skd5aner:

isn't it related to broadcom somehow?

[21:37:58]

sid3windr:

so all I know is it's a minipci card that decodes stuff in hardware, from broadcom.. ;)

[21:38:14]

sid3windr:

minipcie even

[21:38:23]

skd5aner:

could be cool, guess we'll see!

[21:38:33]

sid3windr:

:)

[21:38:35]

sid3windr:

I have nowhere to put it

[21:39:05]

skd5aner:

MartinJT: Negative – http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134087

[21:39:22]

sid3windr:

at least in my bedroom FE there is only one slot and it's got the video card..

[21:39:25]

sid3windr:

vdpau capable though ;)

[21:39:32]

sphery:

I'm wondering how much of the CrystalHD is inherited from the old ATI Xilleon

[21:39:37]

sid3windr:

in the living room FE I could put a pcie->minipcie adapter

[21:39:52]

sphery:

as the Xilleon in my TV can barely process MPEG-2 ATSC HDTV in real time

[21:40:08]

sphery:

(has occasional glitches about 1/min--makes me glad I'm using my own decoder (MythTV))

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[21:42:14]

MartinJT:

ok... so are there any scripts out there for downloading trailers "randomly"

[21:46:44]

sphery:

TTBOMK, all sites that have trailers also have ToS that forbid downloading them

[21:47:16]

sphery:

(or at least forbid accessing the site through "automated scripts" and whatnot)--you can watch them through the site, but that's all

[21:47:27]

sphery:

i.e. they want their ad revenue

[21:48:32]

skd5aner:

wouldn't the concept of watching a trailer BE like watching an Ad?!

[21:49:01]

sid3windr:

hey now

[21:49:03]

sphery:

not according to Microsoft

[21:49:09]

sid3windr:

don't go making sense on us now, ok

[21:49:16]

sid3windr:

this is the internet!

[21:49:41]

sphery:

after all, I wanted to play the HD version of the Serenity trailer on Microsoft's site and it turns out you need a license to play it

[21:49:47]

sphery:

(which you can't get without WMP)

[21:49:53]

** skd5aner goes back to a blank stare, as the media expect him to do **

[21:51:56]

skd5aner:

sphery: OTA – what kind of antenna you using?

[21:52:06]

skd5aner:

any rotor? omni-directional?

[21:52:43]

MartinJT:

dammit!

[21:53:35]

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[21:54:57]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Ping re: voting website?

[21:55:26]

kormoc:

Pong crap, I'll get something together tonight

[21:55:50]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Heh, would be appreciated, we definitely still have time and I don't want to take advantage of you :)

[21:56:07]

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[21:56:42]

sphery:

skd5aner: Have a Terk TV-38 stuffed into my attic (threaded between the trusses) per homeowner association rules (but I'm glad of the rule because I don't have to replace the antenna after every hurricane/wind storm). All the transmitters are between 325 and 328deg, so no need for a rotor for me.

[21:57:04]

sphery:

which is the only reason the attic placement is possible

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[21:59:38]

high-rez:

sphery: How is it? I have a channel master 4228 (quite a different design_ which has worked well for me.

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[22:01:59]

wagnerrp:

you dont need an X server running, you dont even need an X server installed

[22:02:20]

wagnerrp:

the minimal you need to run mythtv-setup is the basic X libs, so you can forward it to another machine

[22:02:48]

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[22:03:42]

skd5aner:

Sphery: gotcha, you know the HOA rules are illegal right? Not that it matters if in-attic is working for you

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[22:06:34]

high-rez:

skd5aner: Illegal in what way? I know for dishes you can go upo, I think 100cm under OTARD (i got to tell my HOA off on that one). Is there a similar provision for terrestrial ?

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[22:07:27]

sphery:

skd5aner: yeah, I realized I didn't have to follow them, but since I have to live with my neighbors, it was easier to just follow them to prevent upsetting the "aesthetics police" since I was able to make it work. And, as I mentioned, in retrospect, it's turned out to be good since it saves my having to replace the antenna a few times a year.

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[22:08:35]

skd5aner:

yup – it's what I'm trying to do

[22:08:38]

high-rez:

I just told me HOA I'd start planting dishes allover my yard – and they quit sneding me letters :)

[22:09:20]

skd5aner:

high-rez: in the US, the FCC says that a homeowner/condo owner has the right to put up a dish/antenna on their property and that HOA/etc can't restrict them from doing so

[22:09:49]

skd5aner:

I think there might be "within reason" clauses of course, but...

[22:10:21]

sphery:

yeah, and US Supreme Court upheld the ruling :)

[22:10:32]

skd5aner:

sphery: sorry – to clarify, when mine goes in, it's going in the attic, even though I don't have neighbors or an HOA for similiar reasons

[22:10:35]

high-rez:

With regards to dishes, the provision is known as OTARD and it limits dish size to 1 meter.

[22:10:57]

skd5aner:

high-rez: well, in the US, we don't use the metric system, so... ;)

[22:11:04]

sphery:

wow, 1m, I would have expected smaller

[22:11:07]

high-rez:

40 inches

[22:11:27]

high-rez:

sphery: International Ku stuff. Like all the FTA on 97w.

[22:11:33]

sphery:

I think most DISH/DirecTV dishes are around 26" or so, right?

[22:11:53]

skd5aner:

depends on the shape I think

[22:12:11]

skd5aner:

some are cicular, and others are parabollic

[22:12:16]

high-rez:

Smaller than. They are like 18–20 inch for single/dual position. Directv has a huge bird (the 5 kaku)

[22:12:32]

high-rez:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html <--- and by the way the size is in metric ;)

[22:12:37]

skd5aner:

hehe

[22:13:00]

sphery:

I thought the new ones with multiple dual LNB (or quad or ?) were some elliptical 26" thing (but I trust you more than my memory :)

[22:13:33]

high-rez:

Yeah, they have 20 and up if hyou're going more than two orbital positions, spaced more than 10" apart

[22:14:10]

high-rez:

You can get two orbital positions upto 9 degrees apart on Ku DBS.

[22:14:26]

high-rez:

With 18"

[22:14:31]

high-rez:

Forgot that important detail

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[22:48:12]

achandra:

Hi, I have an annoying issue with the volume control bar showing up in the right hand corner on mythbuntu and never disappearing after you adjust the volume. Anyone know how to resolve this?

[22:49:19]

skd5aner:

sphery: you around?

[22:51:34]

sphery:

yep

[22:51:59]

skd5aner:

can you please close ticket #7982, did the dumb thing and hit submit instead of preview

[22:52:09]

skd5aner:

I'd like to resubmit, you can close as dupe if you'd like...

[22:52:19]

sphery:

you're resubmitting?

[22:52:20]

skd5aner:

formatting is all f'd up, and of course i can't re-edit the description

[22:52:48]

skd5aner:

sorry for the noise – unless you have a better option?

[22:52:54]

sphery:

I can edit description or just delete the ticket for you if you like

[22:53:48]

skd5aner:

yea – delete would be fine

[22:54:13]

sphery:

it's deleted

[22:54:22]

sphery:

you might get the same number

[22:54:30]

sphery:

otherwise, I'll have confused many devs

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iamlindoro:

Wait, I'm confused

[22:54:48]

iamlindoro:

;)

[22:54:57]

sphery:

well, you started that way, so it doesn't count

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iamlindoro:

sheesh, everyone's taking their shots today

[22:58:31]

sphery:

:)

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[23:01:10]

skd5aner:

sphery: thx – appreciated

[23:01:18]

skd5aner:

howver, just on resubmitting – I got a "database locked" error

[23:01:56]

sphery:

yeah, trac seems to have died

[23:02:01]

sphery:

no, just slow

[23:02:06]

skd5aner:

I could attempt again (good thing I copied the text!)

[23:02:18]

sphery:

try again, I think

[23:02:22]

skd5aner:

k

[23:02:35]

skd5aner:

taking a long while to load

[23:02:40]

sphery:

yeah, slow

[23:02:46]

sphery:

someone might have to reset the db

[23:02:59]

skd5aner:

btw – you could have just deleted the entry and not the whole db

[23:03:02]

skd5aner:

;)

[23:03:22]

skd5aner:

brb – gonna take the dog out

[23:04:22]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: What resolution are you running at?

[23:06:20]

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[23:11:50]

bonelifer:

as as video card maker how is PNY?

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[23:13:34]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: 1280x720 – 100dpi

[23:13:58]

skd5aner:

sphery: got it, but different number :) http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7983

[23:15:20]

skd5aner:

bonelifer: depends on the card I suppose, I used to run some PNY cards back in the day

[23:15:42]

sphery:

skd5aner: oops... guess I'll have confused some

[23:15:50]

sphery:

should have closed it as dup

[23:16:09]

skd5aner:

sphery: it's my fault, while waiting for the DB to recoup, someone beat me to resubmitting

[23:16:22]

bonelifer:

trying to get a pci-e card for vdpau + hdmi audio. which means a no go on the GT220 I was looking at.

[23:16:27]

bonelifer:

:(

[23:16:30]

sphery:

oh, someone else got #7982, so it was just a race condition

[23:16:40]

sphery:

will still confuse people... blame me

[23:17:12]

skd5aner:

bonelifer: well – eventually the HDMI audio should work from what I've read about the ALSA efforts, but I don't have that requirement, so actually just purchased a GT 240 myself today

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sphery:

skd5aner: and the new #7982 is invalid

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skd5aner:

heh, funny that

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[23:21:21]

bonelifer:

Is the Sparkle video card a hit and miss brand? I've never heard of it.

[23:24:17]

bonelifer:

Do I have to get the audio from the hdmi. I do have built in s/pdif. I'm new to the htpc scene, not knowledgable about the advanced vid/audio side.

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[23:28:01]

skd5aner:

I use spdif

[23:28:02]

sphery:

bonelifer: I'm not sure how well it does graphichs, but Mr. Sparkle is a magnet for foodstuffs... He will banish dirt tot he land of wind and ghosts.

[23:29:31]

bonelifer:

Yeah the Sparkle cards have hit and mis reviews. Looking at the ASUS or XFC GT220's

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[23:32:00]

skd5aner:

I bought an ECS, got pretty good reviews

[23:32:05]

skd5aner:

never bought that brand before

[23:33:15]

bonelifer:

If asus would just assume that if the board has s/pdif, they should ship it with the module, I'd be happy right now.

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bonelifer:

whew, some of these cards have aircraft carriers attached. :)

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bonelifer:

skd5aner: is that the low profile ECS card?

[23:52:38]

kormoc:

For all you lost fans, http://mashable.com/2010/01/28/kayak-lost/

[23:56:53]

sphery:

skd5aner: do you have the MS core web fonts installed?

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sphery:

kormoc: sweet... And thanks--I've been lost without my LOST.

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sphery:

they should have made the time something like 15h 16 min

[23:59:58]

kormoc:

heh, yeah

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