| Friday, January 22nd, 2010, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:23] | kormoc: | so add a -v playback ? |
| [00:00:43] | Dagmar: | ...and possibly a 2>&1 > mythfrontend.log |
| [00:01:24] | Dagmar: | Like, for it to just *not* do anything but give you a spinning cursor means something very large went "NO." and brought things to a halt |
| [00:01:37] | Dagmar: | THis is something that's VERY likely to have resulted in an error message |
| [00:02:08] | Dagmar: | The good news is that the larger and more obvious the thing, the easier it is to prod into working |
| [00:02:10] | kormoc: | Dagmar: why the love for 2>&1 > file vs &> file? |
| [00:02:27] | Dagmar: | Because I'm old skool |
| [00:03:11] | kormoc: | meh, it's just one of those things that people seem to just not do, even noobs |
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| [00:05:10] | Dagmar: | I <3 inkscape so much |
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| [00:14:11] | joshborke: | i don't get inkscape :( |
| [00:14:25] | Dagmar: | It's just freaking awesome for diagrams |
| [00:14:59] | gbee_: | inkscape makes us all artists |
| [00:15:02] | Dagmar: | Gimme a minute and I'll show you what I was just working on |
| [00:16:21] | joshborke: | kormoc: noobs don't do &> file because they find 2>&1 > file online ;-) |
| [00:17:12] | Dagmar: | So like, I play World of Warcraft. Regardless of what some kids with too much time would say, parts of the game are HARD and require literally a "game plan" just to win the fight |
| [00:17:19] | Dagmar: | Expressing this without visuals is a bitch |
| [00:17:22] | Dagmar: | http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/evild . . . sargeras.png |
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| [00:18:02] | Dagmar: | That particular encounter pretty much requires pairs of kiters in a rather unforgiving arrangement |
| [00:18:24] | Dagmar: | Unless everyone can internalize it so they can adapt on the fly, it's just pain and frustration all around |
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| [00:19:10] | Dagmar: | THat's about twenty minutes' work in Inkscape |
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| [00:21:28] | Dagmar: | Five more minutes to add a few labels, ten minutes to write it up and put it on the guild website, and we should be able to whip that guy's ass next weekend, even though we're pretty undergeared |
| [00:23:52] | gbee_: | Dagmar: I've no idea what I'm looking at, but it is a good example of the different applications that inkscape can be put to |
| [00:27:42] | peterpan13_ptl: | could this be the problem: from the frontend log: kernel[0]: IOAudioStream[0x529d100]::clipIfNecessary() – Error: attempting to clip to |
| [00:27:42] | peterpan13_ptl: | a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position (0,640)->(17,19a3). |
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| [00:37:58] | frogonwheels: | I'm having problems with mythfilldatabase using the shepherd grabber for .AU data. It _seem_ to be all running fine, and the log -v all shows it inserting a bunch of records.. but I'm just not seeing the channel guid come up anywhere |
| [00:38:07] | elmojo: | after trying out XBMC I just don't get what the big deal is all about |
| [00:38:31] | elmojo: | can't changed audio tracks, the subtitles sometimes appear but are always stuck in French |
| [00:38:44] | elmojo: | makes me like the Internal player so much more |
| [00:39:10] | elmojo: | very pretty graphics though |
| [00:41:04] | frogonwheels: | for eg: 2010-01–22 08:39:19.654 MSqlQuery::exec() "REPLACE INTO program ( chanid, title, subtitle, description, category, category_type, starttime, endtime, closecaptioned, stereo, hdtv, subtitled, subtitletypes, audioprop, videoprop, partnumber, parttotal, syndicatedepisodenumber, airdate, originalairdate,listingsource, seriesid, programid, |
| [00:41:05] | frogonwheels: | previouslyshown, stars, showtype, title_pronounce, colorcode ) VALUES( '2202', 'Australian Open 2010', 'Day 10, Night Session', 'Day ten coverage continues of the quarterfinals of the Grand Slam of Asia-Pacific where viewers can expect the biggest names in tennis and the hottest action in years. Hosted by Johanna Griggs.', 'sport', 'sports', '2010-01–27T19:30:00', '2010-01–28T00:30:00', ' |
| [00:41:06] | frogonwheels: | false', 'false', 'false', 'true', '2', '0', '0', '0', '0', '', '2010', '', '4', '166232448', '', 'false', '', '', 'Australian Open 2010'PRON, '')" |
| [00:41:08] | frogonwheels: | sorry |
| [00:41:50] | frogonwheels: | .. but this is being executed without (seemingly) any errors |
| [00:42:03] | gbee_: | elmojo: it's all about the graphics and/or xbmc's pirate friendly features |
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| [00:43:24] | frogonwheels: | oh sure.. _now_ it works. All I needed to do was ask for help on #irc apparently ;) |
| [00:43:45] | gbee_: | xbmc devs don't like me pointing out the latter, they get quite upset in fact |
| [00:44:26] | gbee_: | so in the interests of a quiet life, I take it back ;) |
| [00:45:17] | frogonwheels: | gbee_: I've been quite impressed with elisa/moovida configuration is rather under-done, and I have NO idea how it would work with TV, though it has a section for tv programs.. |
| [00:46:01] | frogonwheels: | youtube playback on it is great. |
| [00:46:04] | gbee_: | and you have to pay for the codecs |
| [00:47:04] | gbee_: | elisa makes sense when you know that it was written by professionals to sell those codecs, it's a vehicle |
| [00:47:34] | gbee_: | I don't begrude anyone trying to make money (unless it's at my expense) |
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| [00:49:54] | elmojo: | gbee_: yeah... at the end of the day I want things to work not just look pretty although I must say I do like a lot of the new MythUI looks |
| [00:50:15] | gbee_: | mythtv is getting there, probably faster that any reasonable person probably expected |
| [00:50:38] | gbee_: | strike one of those probablys |
| [00:50:50] | Caliban: | Hey, anyone want to help me out with a recordedseek problem, or at least a problem that points in that direction? |
| [00:53:10] | Caliban: | I've got a problem with the duration of my new recordings. |
| [00:53:30] | elmojo: | gbee_: yes and largely due to your efforts ;) |
| [00:53:34] | Caliban: | The actual length is fine, but MythTV thinks they're only 85% of their actual length. |
| [00:54:37] | Caliban: | Anyone care to hazard a guess what the problem is? |
| [00:54:45] | frogonwheels: | gbee_: I didn't know that about elisa |
| [00:57:26] | gbee_: | elmojo: not really, I'm not merely being modest when I say that it's a team effort, I may have contributed a lot in a short time frame but as a fraction of the total body of work it's tiny |
| [01:00:36] | gbee_: | IMHO the coolest and killer features are not ones I had anything to do with, nor was anything I've written especially hard, anyone could have done it – something I can't say about other parts of the code |
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| [01:05:03] | elmojo: | gbee_: heh, the codebase is quite large these days ;) |
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| [01:06:04] | gbee_: | the work you've done recently is fantastic, like gnome42 you were willing to work out those annoying little gremlins that the rest of us had learnt to live with |
| [01:06:25] | elmojo: | gnome42 is my hero |
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| [01:07:25] | SnakesAndStuff (SnakesAndStuff!n=bob@74.194.225.82) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [01:07:27] | SnakesAndStuff: | Hello |
| [01:07:42] | elmojo: | gbee_: what was really cool is that I submitted a fairly trivial patch for AVChapter support all of a sudden it's got full OSD menu support out of no where |
| [01:07:50] | gbee_: | Mark is my current hero, I was kidding myself if I ever believed I could manage the mythui OSD port, way too steep a learning curve |
| [01:07:50] | SnakesAndStuff: | Anyone here have advice on fixing nvidia overscan issues over HDMI output other than adjusting it within the mythtv settings? |
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| [01:09:39] | elmojo: | gbee_: I've been pleasantly surprised by how simple most of the patches needed to be since most, if not all, the code was already there and just needed some simple changes |
| [01:10:09] | gbee_: | SnakesAndStuff: start with your TV? The TV is overscanning after all, not the GPU or myth, many allow you to turn off overscan (and some just don't overscan to begin with) |
| [01:10:39] | SnakesAndStuff: | gbee_: Not sure about service menu codes etc.... and also, if I use other devices over the same HDMI won't I have to manually reset every time? |
| [01:10:52] | gbee_: | elmojo: it's taking the time to figure it all out |
| [01:11:15] | gbee_: | SnakesAndStuff: only if those devices underscan, and they shouldn't |
| [01:12:07] | Dagmar: | SnakesAndStuff: I'm not aware that the overscan settings from nvidia-settings is going to affect HDMI output |
| [01:12:24] | Dagmar: | SnakesAndStuff: Your TV should simply *not* be doing overscan stuff on a digital signal. |
| [01:12:34] | Dagmar: | Look on your TV's remote and see if it's got a button for picture modes |
| [01:13:08] | Dagmar: | Some will have two modes for 4:3 content, one of which is almost indistinguishable from the other becuase of a 5% rescaling (which is overscan) |
| [01:13:19] | Dagmar: | Otherwise, you're probably just out of luck for the time being |
| [01:13:45] | Dagmar: | Barring that, if your TV has a VGA input, use that |
| [01:14:10] | Dagmar: | VGA inputs which have overscan compensation applied to them would be, frankly, insane |
| [01:14:11] | gbee_: | overscan is something the TV does, it's actually pretty stupid, dates back to when CRTs couldn't help overscanning so broadcasters avoided putting anything important in that 5% around the screen – modern TVs don't overscan because they aren't using CRT but manufacturers for some reason thought they should fake it otherwise people would find the framing odd (as though seeing more of the picture would be a bad thing!) |
| [01:15:27] | gbee_: | my Sony Bravia doesn't fake overscan at all, maybe I'm just very lucky |
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| [01:15:43] | Dagmar: | Sony isn't all that stupid, and they expect connecting equipment to be _theirs_ |
| [01:15:48] | Dagmar: | ...so... no problems there |
| [01:15:54] | Dagmar: | ;) |
| [01:16:11] | gbee_: | heh |
| [01:16:28] | Dagmar: | The Sanyo I got doesn't overscan on a digital signal either |
| [01:16:39] | Dagmar: | I checked that out in advance |
| [01:17:04] | Dagmar: | Took my laptop with me and a graphic with "If you can't see this, the display sucks" in the 5% margin space |
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| [01:17:52] | Dagmar: | I wasn't going to be spending $700 on anything that didn't handle digital signals correctly |
| [01:18:13] | Dagmar: | After some further testing, it does overscan on the analog inputs |
| [01:18:28] | Dagmar: | Well, on the composite one. The component input, no overscan. |
| [01:18:31] | Dagmar: | So... It's sane. |
| [01:19:02] | Caliban: | So, no-one has any idea about the cause of my program duration issue? |
| [01:19:15] | Caliban: | Ive tried everything I can think of. |
| [01:19:36] | Dagmar: | I've no idea what issue you're talking about |
| [01:20:21] | Caliban: | I've got a problem with the duration of my new recordings. |
| [01:20:27] | Caliban: | The actual length is fine, but MythTV thinks they're only 85% of their actual length. |
| [01:20:30] | Dagmar: | I scrolled up and found it |
| [01:20:34] | Caliban: | OK. |
| [01:20:34] | Dagmar: | What are you recording from? |
| [01:20:42] | Caliban: | PVR-350s |
| [01:20:42] | Dagmar: | THat tidbit I didn't see |
| [01:20:44] | Dagmar: | Hmm.. |
| [01:21:20] | Dagmar: | When you say "myth thinks" what part of the interface are you getting the program duration from? |
| [01:21:27] | Caliban: | This box has worked fine for more than 3 years, but I recently upgraded to 0.22 fixes and the problem started around that time, although I can't say for sure that it coincided with it. |
| [01:21:34] | gbee_: | even on the analogue it doesn't have to overscan, it's doing so only to compensate for the broadcasters compensating – catch22, at least the BBC have always broadcast a complete picture but framed it so that you could lose 5% without it being a big deal e.g. news tickers, clocks are within the 'safe area' |
| [01:21:36] | Dagmar: | For all I know right now you might just be seeing the "sans commericals" length |
| [01:21:44] | Caliban: | 'info' while playing it, so 'i' on the keyboard. |
| [01:21:57] | Caliban: | a 30 minute programme will be consistently 24:35. |
| [01:22:15] | Caliban: | I can fix it by running mythcommflag on it, but I don't know why it happens in the first place. |
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| [01:22:55] | Caliban: | After mythcommflag, it's 30 minutes (or 29:59, but that's normal). |
| [01:23:17] | Caliban: | Usually, this means a corrupt recordedseektable. |
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| [01:23:27] | Caliban: | I've had a couple of those over the years. |
| [01:23:35] | Dagmar: | Note the signature |
| [01:23:37] | Dagmar: | wrong chan |
| [01:23:43] | gbee_: | definitely a seek table thing, a bug in the seek table creation code, might be failing to write the last 5 minutes of the table or using the wrong framerate etc |
| [01:23:45] | Dagmar: | Caliban: Yeah I agree with you |
| [01:23:53] | Dagmar: | Something's messing up the seektable somehow |
| [01:24:01] | Caliban: | This time, it's different, though. It's every new recording. |
| [01:24:10] | Caliban: | And it's consistently the same peercentage out of whack. |
| [01:24:12] | Dagmar: | Are you using some setting for the encoder other than the defaults, and when was the last time you looked into a possibly newer firmware set? |
| [01:24:25] | Dagmar: | Yeah if it's the same amount out of whack that would definitely be a bug |
| [01:24:29] | gbee_: | Caliban: it's not a corruption issue, at least not in the traditional sense, file a bug |
| [01:24:52] | Caliban: | No, I'm using the defaults. The firmware has worked fine for 3 years. |
| [01:25:20] | Caliban: | Yeah, I wasn't sure it started at exactly the same time I compiled 0.22-fixes, which is why I haven't filed a bug yet. |
| [01:25:23] | gbee_: | some changes were made to that area of the code between 0.21 and 0.22, but I don't remember exactly what they were |
| [01:25:24] | Dagmar: | Regardless, check Hauppauge's site for the latest. |
| [01:25:32] | Dagmar: | It's not like you can't shuffle them around between reboots |
| [01:25:42] | Caliban: | I also couldn't imagine it would be affecting only me. |
| [01:25:52] | Caliban: | I'll check their site. |
| [01:25:56] | Dagmar: | You *might* be one of the few people still using a firmware three years old |
| [01:26:26] | Dagmar: | I've got a PVR-500 still and I haven't had this issue, and the firmware I use is probably about a year old if that |
| [01:26:34] | Dagmar: | If you need it I'll md5sum that directory and pastebin it for you |
| [01:26:40] | gbee_: | I'm guessing that not many devs are still using SD analogue capture but digital, firewire or the HD-PVR |
| [01:27:05] | Caliban: | These cards are pretty well supported by the ivtv stuff, so I imagine most people don't mess with the firmware if the card works perfectly, which mine did. There are also a couple of PVR-150s in the box (in addition to 2 PVR-350s) and all cards produce the same problem. |
| [01:27:16] | Dagmar: | gbee: Oh that reminds me. Are *you* using an HD-PVR? |
| [01:27:25] | Caliban: | No. |
| [01:27:39] | Dagmar: | caliban: Yeah that would also point to the firmware as being a possible source of the oddness |
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| [01:28:03] | gbee_: | firmware is a possibility, if it's reporting the wrong framerate 25 vs 30 would neatly explain the difference |
| [01:28:13] | Caliban: | If it were the firmware, why would mythcommflag fix it? |
| [01:28:16] | Dagmar: | ...and being that it takes less than about five minutes to look at it, it makes it pretty high on the triage list |
| [01:28:44] | Dagmar: | Caliban: Because it actually reads the file instead of taking the information it got from the tuner card on faith |
| [01:28:47] | gbee_: | Caliban: check that it's configured for NTSC and not PAL (or vice versa if you live outside the US) |
| [01:29:02] | SnakesAndStuff: | Well crap, not having any luck with the service menu... it is an older projection TV |
| [01:29:10] | Dagmar: | 25/30 = 0.8333333 |
| [01:29:14] | Dagmar: | I suspect gbee may have nailed it |
| [01:29:43] | Dagmar: | SnakesAndStuff: Ah you might hit up the manufacturer's website, |
| [01:29:58] | Caliban: | I'm in thhe Netherlands. These cards have either an NTSC or PAL tuner, but never both. I'll paste the dmesg stuff. |
| [01:30:05] | Dagmar: | It's not likely an older one would have a USB port, but if it *does* then there might be an update you can apply to the TV |
| [01:30:33] | Caliban: | ivtv0: Autodetected Hauppauge card (cx23415 based) |
| [01:30:34] | Caliban: | ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:02:09.0[A] -> GSI 21 (level, low) -> IRQ 22 |
| [01:30:34] | Caliban: | lirc_serial: auto-detected active high receiver |
| [01:30:34] | Caliban: | lirc_dev: lirc_register_plugin: sample_rate: 0 |
| [01:30:34] | Caliban: | ivtv0: loaded v4l-cx2341x-enc.fw firmware (4153830184 bytes) |
| [01:30:34] | Caliban: | ivtv0: loaded v4l-cx2341x-dec.fw firmware (4153830152 bytes) |
| [01:30:36] | Caliban: | ivtv0: Encoder revision: 0x02060039 |
| [01:30:38] | Caliban: | ivtv0: Decoder revision: 0x02020023 |
| [01:30:40] | Caliban: | tveeprom 1–0050: Hauppauge model 48139, rev K2B7, serial# 9994410 |
| [01:30:42] | Caliban: | tveeprom 1–0050: tuner model is Philips FM1216ME MK5 (idx 117, type 38) |
| [01:30:44] | Caliban: | tveeprom 1–0050: TV standards PAL(B/G) PAL(I) SECAM(L/L') PAL(D/D1/K) (eeprom 0x74) |
| [01:30:46] | Caliban: | tveeprom 1–0050: audio processor is MSP4418 (idx 25) |
| [01:30:47] | Dagmar: | Ack don't pasteflood the channel |
| [01:30:48] | Caliban: | tveeprom 1–0050: decoder processor is SAA7115 (idx 19) |
| [01:30:50] | Caliban: | tveeprom 1–0050: has radio, has IR receiver, has no IR transmitter |
| [01:30:52] | Caliban: | ivtv0: Autodetected Hauppauge WinTV PVR-350 |
| [01:31:00] | Caliban: | Sorry. |
| [01:31:01] | gbee_: | Caliban: but the one driver runs both NTSC and PAL cards, it needs to be given the correct capture mode (it doesn't work it out from the hardware) |
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| [01:31:26] | Dagmar: | Yeah it's possible since most of the devs are doing NTSC that that's a genuine bug |
| [01:31:37] | Caliban: | Actually, I believe ivtv does autodetect the correct tuner type. |
| [01:31:40] | Dagmar: | But if you're saying 83.3% then this pretty much HAS to do with selecting PAL or NTSC |
| [01:32:15] | Dagmar: | Caliban: That wouldn't stop a bit from being set wrong in mythtv-setup, or an outright bug from expecting NTSC instead of PAL |
| [01:32:57] | Dagmar: | If you can get it to cough up a duration that shows an 83.3% discrepancy, I'd actually go ahead and fill out a bug report |
| [01:33:13] | Caliban: | Hmm, well the cards are all set to PAL-?? (I forget the letters exactly). This hasn't changed in 3+ years. |
| [01:33:20] | Caliban: | OK, I guess I'll file that bug. |
| [01:33:24] | Dagmar: | "Any old difference" might be a lot of things, but 83.3 would just scream PAL/NTSC issue |
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| [01:33:40] | Dagmar: | Could be myth is reading the info about how the tuner should be configured and just screwing up and setting NTSC now anyway |
| [01:33:56] | Dagmar: | One dev with PAL tuners would be able to verify it pretty easily |
| [01:33:57] | gbee_: | I've not used my PVR-150 in a while so I've forgotten the detail of how it's configured, but I swear that either in the ivtv config, mythtv-setup or the recording profiles the question of NTSC/PAL comes up |
| [01:34:05] | Dagmar: | It does |
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| [01:34:26] | Dagmar: | I'm betting NTSC is at the top of the list tho |
| [01:34:52] | Dagmar: | ...which means it's possible it's screwing up getting the info from the DB or otherwise thinking it's NTSC by default/side-effect |
| [01:36:00] | gbee_: | aye, definitely can't rule out a regression, but it would be nice to rule out a config problem before opening the ticket |
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| [01:36:16] | Caliban: | ivtv is configured via modules.conf. The stuff in there hasn't changed in years and these are recognised tuners (they used to change models every now and again and some would be unrecognised), so these are autosensed. |
| [01:36:22] | Dagmar: | Ignore that stuff |
| [01:36:38] | Dagmar: | Check mythtv-setup and make sure it still thinks you're recording PAL and not NTSC |
| [01:36:39] | Caliban: | The only place you configure PAL vs. NTSC is in mythtv-setup, and that's had PAL configured for years. |
| [01:36:46] | Dagmar: | Do eet. |
| [01:36:49] | gbee_: | I'd try the PVR-150 but I've no free PCI slots and disassembling a working system is something I'd like to avoid |
| [01:36:59] | Caliban: | Yeah, I've just checked for the 8th time today. :-) Definitely PAL. |
| [01:37:05] | Dagmar: | If it screwed up the db upgrade and changed that to NTSC it would be a different sort of bug |
| [01:37:07] | Dagmar: | Okay file a bug report |
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| [01:37:42] | Dagmar: | Alternatively, change the script you start the backend with to use -v all and schedule a recording |
| [01:37:51] | Caliban: | PAL-BG/PAL Teletext/europe-west in locale settings. |
| [01:37:59] | Dagmar: | HOPE that it says something in the log output about whether or not it told the card PAL or NTSC |
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| [01:38:22] | Dagmar: | There *may* be a way to get the card to cough up it's current configuration to you using ivtv-ctl once it's recording (or v4l-ctl now) |
| [01:38:51] | gbee_: | you know what? I think I remember a potential cause for this one – the ivtv driver changed the format or something for the PAL/NTSC lines, I remember Isaac grouching about it |
| [01:39:02] | Dagmar: | Wouldn't suprise me |
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| [01:39:18] | gbee_: | Caliban: what version of ivtv are you using? |
| [01:39:39] | Dagmar: | Probably more usefully, what kernel are you using, since you've probably got ivtv coming from the kernel |
| [01:39:44] | gbee_: | or that |
| [01:39:47] | Dagmar: | It's been a kernel module for a looong time |
| [01:40:00] | Caliban: | 2.6.22.9, unchanged for quite a while now. |
| [01:40:09] | Dagmar: | I'll be pointing fingers with great abandon if you're still using an out-of-tree ivtv |
| [01:40:22] | Caliban: | No, I'm not. |
| [01:40:43] | Caliban: | I forget when it was added to the kernel, but it was a revision or two before this. |
| [01:41:03] | Dagmar: | That would officially be "old as hell" |
| [01:41:09] | gbee_: | Caliban: that might be your problem then, if Chutt put in a fix for a change in driver API and I think he did, then it would break compatibility with the old drivers |
| [01:41:19] | Caliban: | v4l2-ctl -S ~ |
| [01:41:19] | Caliban: | Video Standard = 0x00000007 |
| [01:41:23] | Dagmar: | If you know how to rebuild the kernel, the latest kernel would get you back up to speed |
| [01:41:53] | Caliban: | PAL-B/B1/G |
| [01:42:00] | Dagmar: | ivtv stable 1.1.0 (which is OLD) was for kernel 2.6.25 |
| [01:42:09] | Dagmar: | You're running an older version than even that |
| [01:42:10] | gbee_: | ouch |
| [01:42:28] | gbee_: | yeah, that _is_ old |
| [01:42:40] | Caliban: | Yeah, well I treat this box as an appliance. I don't mess with it. |
| [01:42:50] | Dagmar: | I was hoping to see something about that format change on ivtvdriver.org, but it at least shows which versions of ivtv went into which kernels |
| [01:42:52] | Caliban: | Of course, in putting 0.22 on it, I did mess with it. :-( |
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| [01:43:04] | Dagmar: | Caliban: I actually applaud your care for treating it like that |
| [01:43:23] | Dagmar: | However, if you're running 0.22 you now have a piece of software which expects a MUCH newer kernel and ivtv driver |
| [01:43:47] | Dagmar: | When you make upgrades very infrequently, you often have to make a lot of them at once to keep the various pieces in step |
| [01:44:07] | gbee_: | sphery: oh font of all wisdom, can you remember the changes Isaac made relating to a change in ivtv and ntsc/pal? It would be helpful to point to a particular commit and also confirm that I've not just imagined it |
| [01:44:13] | Dagmar: | Otherwise following the "if it's not broken don't fix it" approach is pretty f**king professional-level behaviour |
| [01:44:39] | Dagmar: | No sarcasm. You're doing good |
| [01:44:56] | Dagmar: | I wish I could get more people to take that approach |
| [01:45:34] | Caliban: | I've actually tried to upgrade the kernel on this box a couple of times, but I had to roll back, due to NFS issues (the box records over NFS). lirc also stopped working beyond a certain kernel number, but I forgetw which now. |
| [01:45:48] | Dagmar: | Yeah you'll need a newer lirc as well |
| [01:45:57] | Dagmar: | That *should* be the only other "gotcha" to that tho |
| [01:46:25] | Dagmar: | 0.8.6 supports 2.6.31 and probably higher |
| [01:46:34] | Caliban: | I was running SVN (or maybe it was CVS) lirc at the time. The serial port just stopped working beyond 2.6.24, I think it was. |
| [01:46:43] | Caliban: | I spent a lot of time troubleshooting that at the time. |
| [01:46:52] | Dagmar: | Meh. Serial port issues are cake |
| [01:47:24] | Dagmar: | versioned module directories being the default, if you're not slack with grub/lilo you can easily back all this out at any time |
| [01:47:47] | gbee_: | I can't find anything by searching, Isaac may not have made the commit himself, but I'm pretty damn sure he was talking about it, more than once |
| [01:47:47] | Caliban: | And I actually am a IT pro of 20 years, so that's why I employ the leave-it-alone philosophy. |
| [01:47:51] | ** gbee_ shrugs ** | |
| [01:48:09] | Dagmar: | Caliban: Well, then I guess I was dead on about the professional behaviour then |
| [01:48:20] | Dagmar: | <-- predates internet porn |
| [01:48:28] | Dagmar: | well, color VGA porn for sure |
| [01:48:51] | Caliban: | Yeah, well that's what I had to do. I spent a lot of time trying to get a newer lirc to work (I can't remember why it was important now), but I had to roll back. Spent a ton of time on it at the time. |
| [01:49:11] | Caliban: | Dagmar: ha, yeah, things have come a long way since my first ZX-80. |
| [01:49:17] | Dagmar: | You probably hit it during one of those two "dead spots" where lirc was lagging behing kernel interface changes |
| [01:49:31] | Dagmar: | TI 99–4/a and a C=64 here |
| [01:49:46] | Caliban: | Could be. I posted a lot to the lirc list, but no-one could figure it out. |
| [01:50:36] | Caliban: | I think I was trying to get some kind of new Canadian turbo-charged IR blaster to work. |
| [01:51:23] | Caliban: | Anyway, it's unrelated to this problem now, except that I know that kernels up to about 2.4.26 gave me trouble. I could try again now, though. |
| [01:51:27] | Caliban: | This was a while ago. |
| [01:51:32] | Dagmar: | Well, being that I use a serial transciever and I run Slackware, there's not going to be anything that could go wrong witht hat end of it that I won't be able to sort |
| [01:51:35] | Caliban: | More than a year at least. |
| [01:51:51] | Dagmar: | Slackware: Making admins do most of it themselves since 1993! |
| [01:52:47] | Caliban: | The problem was that lirc couldn't see anything on the serial port. It was really odd. One kernel version back, everything worked fine. |
| [01:53:13] | Caliban: | Maybe it got fixed later as a side-effect of something else. |
| [01:53:19] | Dagmar: | There was a change that tanked me for about twenty minutes while I figured out how to make the serial kernel module _let go_ of the serial port |
| [01:53:35] | Dagmar: | It was definitely a change in the way the kernel handled that |
| [01:53:43] | Caliban: | modprobe -r, you mean? |
| [01:53:47] | Dagmar: | Before you could just not tell the kernel to handle the serial port |
| [01:54:26] | Caliban: | I suppose I could set up a user job to mythcommflag everything, but tthat would suck. |
| [01:54:32] | Dagmar: | echo "Configuring the serial port for LIRC." |
| [01:54:33] | Dagmar: | /sbin/setserial /dev/$SERIALPORT uart none 2>/dev/null |
| [01:54:39] | Dagmar: | Makes it let go |
| [01:55:00] | Caliban: | I thought you meant making lirc let it go, my removing lirc_serial. |
| [01:55:04] | Dagmar: | Before you had to actually tell it to grab 'em with setserial, then one day it started doing it on it's own as a part of some of the udev magic |
| [01:55:29] | Dagmar: | Once the kernel's serial driver has grabbed the uart, lirc's driver can't anymore |
| [01:55:40] | Dagmar: | Hence you gotta thwack it on the head like an angry turtle |
| [01:56:24] | Tanthrix: | Nifty, my HD-PVR just shipped from Amazon. |
| [01:56:32] | Caliban: | Yeah, I have to do that, too. From my modprobe.conf: |
| [01:56:32] | Tanthrix: | Much earier than expected by a few weeks. |
| [01:56:34] | Caliban: | install ivtv /bin/setserial /dev/ttyS0 uart none; /sbin/modprobe lirc_serial; /sbin/modprobe --ignore-install ivtv; /sbin/modprobe lirc_mceusb2 |
| [01:56:54] | Dagmar: | Tanthrix: Remember when you get it you'll probably want to find something to install Arcsoft (the software it comes with) on so it'll upgrade the firmware |
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| [01:57:06] | Dagmar: | Tanthrix: It'll probably ship with firmware "0xf" installed, which has that cool bug |
| [01:57:21] | Caliban: | Anyway, v4l2-ctl -S ~ |
| [01:57:28] | Tanthrix: | Dagmar: Thanks for the advice, I'll remember that. I've got a few windows systems, so it won't be a problem. |
| [01:57:37] | Caliban: | still shows PAL-B/B1/G, so that's all good. |
| [01:57:43] | Dagmar: | Yep that's good |
| [01:57:50] | Caliban: | It's just in Myth somewhere. |
| [01:58:01] | Caliban: | Bummer if it just assumes a newer ivtv. |
| [01:58:12] | Dagmar: | There's not really any reasonable way for it to check |
| [01:58:27] | Caliban: | I checked the prereqs before I did the upgrade and this wasn't mentioned. |
| [01:58:49] | bonelifer: | Anyone heard of of a SSD brand called Imation? Would one of their SSD's be good for a Frontend/Backend system, with the video/audio on a seperate 1TB WD drive. |
| [01:59:02] | Dagmar: | Imation is Maxell, IIRC |
| [01:59:03] | Caliban: | 0.21-fixes still worked like a charm. |
| [01:59:04] | Dagmar: | Should be fine |
| [01:59:36] | bonelifer: | great, had never heard of them and a 32GB SSD for less than a $100, was suspicious at first |
| [01:59:43] | Caliban: | Perhaps I should just make a user job of mythcommflag for now. |
| [02:00:02] | Caliban: | It will run twice for some recordings, but oh well. |
| [02:00:14] | Dagmar: | Caliban: There's a number of other things you might want in the newer kernels |
| [02:00:22] | Caliban: | Such as? |
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| [02:00:38] | Dagmar: | Like, for me, an elimination of the collision between ACPI and the bloody w87234ehf module for temp sensors |
| [02:01:03] | JoshBorke`gone is now known as joshborke | |
| [02:01:19] | Dagmar: | ("87234" is just some numbers I typed, the letters are correct--you get the idea) |
| [02:01:43] | Caliban: | I have no other problems on this box. It's recorded thousands of hours of TV over 3.5 years. But I had to upgrade to 0.22, didn't I? Grr. Broke my own golden rule. |
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| [02:02:19] | Caliban: | If I suddenly go 2 years worth of kernel development into the future, I'm afraid I may get more than I bargained for. |
| [02:02:37] | Dagmar: | Meh. Probably not going to happen |
| [02:02:47] | Caliban: | Frankly, I'd be stunned if I fixed my MythTV problem, but picked up no new problems. |
| [02:02:52] | Dagmar: | The worst will be doing the "Y/N of A Thousand Steps" when you run `make oldconfig` |
| [02:03:13] | Dagmar: | That bit will take, um, a *while* |
| [02:03:37] | Caliban: | That doesn't worry me, but there are bound to be quite a few other changes — like your ACPI example. |
| [02:03:48] | Dagmar: | I'm not sure whether or not this will be relevant but I suspect it is... "It's okay to say "M" to all the crypto modules" |
| [02:04:18] | Dagmar: | Caliban: All that stuff is just fixes that happened in space you wouldn't have generally had to deal with |
| [02:04:37] | Dagmar: | So there's not likely to be any other "If you upgrade this, you must also upgrade that" issues |
| [02:05:31] | Dagmar: | I went from having my sensors working one day, to not the next as a result of ACPI protecting itself a little better against lm_sensors kicking it in the teeth, and then the resulting fix to make them both play nice |
| [02:06:09] | Dagmar: | The _reason_ the acpi modules behaviour changed is that under certain circumstances, lm_sensors could prod it the wrong way and bork your power settings |
| [02:06:30] | Caliban: | No, I'm more concerned about tiny, OS-level problems. Hangs that didn't happen before. Other kinds of instability. Conflicts that weren't there before. I've upgraded a lot of kernels in my time, both at home and in huge production environments, and I've learned the hard way to be very, very cautious and sceptical. |
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| [02:06:45] | Dagmar: | Oh 2.6 is no longer like that |
| [02:07:03] | Dagmar: | I've been upgrading my kernel quarterly and haven't had a single issue like that in the last two years at least |
| [02:07:29] | Dagmar: | There's none of that sketchy stuff that was going on in 2.5 |
| [02:08:53] | Caliban: | That's a nice incremental upgrade path. The number of code check-ins since 2.6.22 is very, very large. The chances of being bitten by something tiny are quite real. Whether the kernel is Linux, FreeBSD or anything else, this kind of stuff can get you. My wife watches TV on that box, so I have to tread very carefully. ;-) |
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| [02:09:17] | Dagmar: | So it's a _good_ thing that rolling back the kernel just requires one reboot |
| [02:09:37] | Caliban: | Yep, true. |
| [02:10:11] | Dagmar: | The only issue I've had has been the occasional "jillion questions from `make oldconfig`" |
| [02:10:19] | Dagmar: | ...and that's been the result of a bunch of renaming they did |
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| [02:12:13] | Caliban: | IRC client crashed. They don't make anything like they used to. |
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| [03:09:45] | nutron: | *chirp* |
| [03:11:56] | Viper550: | *grrrrakakakakakakgrrr* |
| [03:12:21] | sphery: | elmojo: I can't do any testing, but it looks like you need to remove the "else" block at mythavtest/main.cpp lines 125 – 128 for a short term local fix. Now that CommandLineParser::Parse() is using an boolean to report errors, it shouldn't return false without an error. I'll do a real fix when I get back home (next Wed or Thur). |
| [03:12:24] | nutron: | wtf? Be quiet. |
| [03:17:19] | elmojo: | sphery: no rush... I've already fixed it locally so it's not causing me any issues... enjoy your trip |
| [03:19:06] | sphery: | thx |
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| [03:19:35] | nutron: | sphery: where ya off to? |
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| [03:21:02] | sphery: | I'm babysitting my nephew about 150 miles from home. |
| [03:21:26] | sphery: | (while my sister and her husband go on vacation in Vegas... And all I got was...) |
| [03:21:45] | elmojo: | you mean they don't have a MythTV system! |
| [03:21:58] | [R] ([R]!n=rbox@unaffiliated/rbox) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [03:22:10] | bonelifer: | at least you aren't having to walk 5 large dogs for them like I'm doing for my sister and b-i-l |
| [03:22:16] | sphery: | heh, no. DirecTV with their in-house DVR (used to have DirecTiVo). |
| [03:22:27] | sphery: | Fortunately, I bring my own TV to watch on my laptop. :) |
| [03:22:29] | elmojo: | I'm sorry to hear that |
| [03:23:13] | sphery: | They do have good Internet, but neither theirs nor mine at home is good enough for X forwarding of video playback (which is what I need for (proper :) mythavtest testing) |
| [03:23:53] | elmojo: | actually... mythavtest is you provide it with a filename immediately returns to the prompt |
| [03:23:57] | sphery: | Then again, I may do the fix "blind" with a DISPLAY=:0 after ssh'ing the machine and assume lack of errors is good. |
| [03:24:32] | sphery: | immediately after playback, right? |
| [03:24:45] | elmojo: | immediately after you press return |
| [03:24:54] | sphery: | I really haven't ever even started the program (not even when it was mythtv) |
| [03:25:12] | sphery: | you mean now--with the breakage--or before? |
| [03:25:17] | elmojo: | so you enter 'mythavtest video.ext' and hit return then you got straight back to the prompt |
| [03:25:28] | elmojo: | now with the breakage |
| [03:25:32] | sphery: | ah, yeah |
| [03:25:49] | sphery: | and when it works, it won't come back to the prompt and will spew playback log output, right? |
| [03:25:59] | elmojo: | yes, exactly |
| [03:26:24] | sphery: | cool... I may just fix it so I don't forget--but not until tomorrow (when the little one's at school). It's too late tonight. |
| [03:26:34] | sphery: | (meaning I'm likely to make mistakes :) |
| [03:26:37] | elmojo: | like I say... no rush |
| [03:26:49] | sphery: | yeah, thanks for reporting it--and tracking the breakage down to me |
| [03:27:03] | elmojo: | and if it makes you feel better you can't make it any worse |
| [03:27:06] | elmojo: | hehe |
| [03:27:11] | sphery: | good to know |
| [03:27:14] | sphery: | :) |
| [03:27:53] | sphery: | it actually won't change too much... just put MCLP first, then an else for getting the filename |
| [03:28:01] | elmojo: | I guess technically you could make it worse if you locked up my PC some how |
| [03:28:04] | sphery: | and no other else |
| [03:28:27] | sphery: | heh, I'll see if I can do that--but just yours |
| [03:29:13] | elmojo: | thanks... that'd be cool ;) |
| [03:31:41] | bonelifer: | Has any here used an Antec Fusion Remote Black case? Specifically has anyone tried to change out the LCD in the current models for something a little better. I've read the LCD isn't that great. Are these multiple reviewers wrong? |
| [03:32:15] | sphery: | not I... :( |
| [03:33:16] | bonelifer: | I managed to get one for 154(that's with shipping) and it looked as good as some of the others I saw with $250+ pricetags |
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| [03:38:15] | nutron: | I'm not running .22 yet, but from what I gather, the old themes were ditched for the new terra and graphite. Is there a reason the old ones haven't been re-used? |
| [03:38:45] | bonelifer: | They would have to be updated for the new mythui framework? |
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| [03:40:22] | nutron: | So, basically they need some elbowgrease? |
| [03:43:20] | bonelifer: | I wish I had Broadband. Alas DSL isn't happening in this state officially for awhile at least not here. And Cable is I fairly sure too far away. I'm not sure about fiber. I might try to get ISDN, but I'm sure it would confuse the ATT customer service when I tell them I want it at a residence. Though the Business section mentions it would be good for residences not able to get DSL. At least it did w |
| [03:43:20] | bonelifer: | hen I read it a few months ago. So it's a Zoom USB 56k modem for me to get XMLTV feeds from Schedules Direct. |
| [03:43:36] | bonelifer: | :( |
| [03:44:11] | nutron: | bonelifer: what state? Holy. No broadband? |
| [03:44:16] | bonelifer: | Arkansas |
| [03:45:12] | nutron: | Yikes. |
| [03:47:07] | bonelifer: | I live in Central Arkansas so if we don't have it, then unless they have it in Northwest Arkansas where the Razorbacks and the big moneys has it, it isn't like to be something to be had at all. I wish I live on the other side of town where the cable office is |
| [03:47:30] | bonelifer: | I'm even too far away from the local wireless internet service provider |
| [03:47:41] | bonelifer: | Broadband hates me |
| [03:49:31] | nutron: | Who is/was the guy behind project jupiter? (midnightcode.org) ? |
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| [03:55:30] | wagnerrp: | nutron: basically the problem is that the only themes were built around the limitations of the old framework |
| [03:55:55] | wagnerrp: | most people who are actually interested in doing the work to put a theme together want to try out new stuff, rather than just repairing the old themes |
| [03:56:05] | nutron: | Ahh I see. |
| [03:56:48] | nutron: | Are there more plans to change the workings of the theme "api"? |
| [03:57:00] | nutron: | Or has it settled down in the upcoming version? |
| [03:57:19] | wagnerrp: | yes, the new framework was only partially complete in 0.22 |
| [03:57:31] | wagnerrp: | and theres still a lot of stuff that wont make it in by 0.23 |
| [03:57:40] | jpabq: | This is probably a FAQ, so I am guessing sphery can help me :-p Is there a way to fix the way actors display in the Program Details screen? Any actor with special characters in their name displays poorly (multiple chars instead of the proper one). I have never messed with the character set used by mysql.... |
| [03:58:18] | nutron: | wagnerrp: hmm rough, moving target... |
| [03:58:28] | nutron: | Is there a list of planned features in the bug tracker? |
| [03:58:37] | wagnerrp: | i wouldnt call it moving, so much as unfinished |
| [03:58:50] | wagnerrp: | the current feature set is pretty static |
| [03:58:57] | wagnerrp: | its just new capability that is getting added |
| [03:59:28] | wagnerrp: | for instance the new OSD has not yet been merged into trunk |
| [03:59:40] | wagnerrp: | and there are a number of 'widgets' that have yet to be written |
| [04:00:11] | wagnerrp: | stuff like notification popups and video previews |
| [04:00:30] | wagnerrp: | there has been discussion about reworking the settings screens to make them considerably easier to themes |
| [04:00:50] | nutron: | I understand. Qt baffles me, gtk was more my style a while back. Otherwise I'd poke around. |
| [04:01:04] | wagnerrp: | and there are plans on various animations and transitions to be added in later versions |
| [04:01:22] | nutron: | I heard that the configuration "system" is being reworked. I'll welcome that day. :) |
| [04:02:09] | nutron: | Very nice. Are most of you here developers then? (sphery, stuarta, iamlindoro, wagnerrp, Dagmar, gbee etc)? |
| [04:02:19] | nutron: | ie. The ones that talk the most? :) |
| [04:02:50] | wagnerrp: | some developers hang out in here, some in the theming channel, more in the dev channel |
| [04:02:59] | wagnerrp: | although the dev channel is generally pretty quiet |
| [04:03:12] | wagnerrp: | still more dont really use IRC |
| [04:03:50] | nutron: | Yeah I'd figure as much. |
| [04:04:33] | nutron: | irc = instant gratification ... mailing lists = constantly waiting for a response and hitting the "Get Mail" button repeatedly. |
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| [04:17:42] | sphery: | jpabq: It's a known issue and gigem (David E.) was looking into it/mentioned something on the -dev list. I haven't looked into it, yet. |
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| [04:49:35] | tmkt: | this is the best channel |
| [04:49:43] | tmkt: | this nickserve stuff is annoying |
| [04:50:23] | wagnerrp: | eh? |
| [04:54:53] | jpabq: | sphery, thanks. |
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| [05:37:33] | [R]: | over upnp... mythtv is making some files m3u and some just mpg |
| [05:37:36] | [R]: | what makes it choose? |
| [05:37:59] | wagnerrp: | m3u is just a playlist, not a video file |
| [05:38:53] | [R]: | so why is it making some episodes only an m3u? |
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| [06:08:21] | banyan: | Hey all... far be it from me to complain about my back end not running, lol, but mythfilldatabase doesn't run automatically for me since updating to 0.22. |
| [06:09:49] | [R]: | banyan: and its enabled in the settings? |
| [06:10:29] | banyan: | It is, although I had to check it with mysql because I couldn't find the place to check it off in the gui. |
| [06:10:41] | [R]: | oh... its there |
| [06:10:48] | [R]: | and if you are mucking with the db |
| [06:10:51] | [R]: | most liekly you did it wrong |
| [06:11:17] | banyan: | Ah! Where is the setting in 0.22? |
| [06:11:58] | [R]: | the same place its always been... |
| [06:12:19] | banyan: | oh, I remember now, I was trying to check it on my frontend machine and I think it's something that you have to check by running the frontend on the backend. |
| [06:12:55] | banyan: | It's in the frontend under setttings -> general or something like that? |
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| [06:13:40] | [R]: | something like that |
| [06:13:45] | [R]: | and you can do it from any frontend |
| [06:16:24] | wagnerrp: | woot is selling an ION system for $30 |
| [06:16:30] | [R]: | wtf |
| [06:16:31] | [R]: | thats crazy |
| [06:16:42] | ** wagnerrp goes and hides ** | |
| [06:18:07] | banyan: | ok, I did find the page, but it was checked to run automatically and it didn't. |
| [06:23:59] | banyan: | I see a mythfilldatabase still running, skipping checks note in my log file... I wonder if there's a zombie process, or a lock file kicking around...? |
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| [06:24:29] | [R]: | if its running, the backend isnt going to start a new one |
| [06:24:50] | wagnerrp: | i expected some sort of blowback from that woot comment |
| [06:24:53] | wagnerrp: | im disappointed |
| [06:24:59] | [R]: | ? |
| [06:25:17] | wagnerrp: | apparently you didnt actually go to the page |
| [06:25:29] | [R]: | it confused me |
| [06:25:31] | [R]: | so i just didnt bother |
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| [06:28:39] | banyan: | There were two mythfilldatabase instances running actually, both marked SNl (interruptible sleep, low priority, multithreaded) |
| [06:29:40] | banyan: | and both died when I asked them to without being sent any special signals. I'll have to keep an eye on that and see if it happens again tomorrow. |
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| [06:33:23] | banyan: | How many vhs tapes is a guy going to really want to transfer? I already have Wrath of Khan on DVD and I can buy Office Space on DVD or blu-ray for what that thing costs. |
| [06:33:50] | banyan: | I guess it's a neat idea though but I'd want to see what the results look like. |
| [06:36:25] | wagnerrp: | banyan: the ION is typically thought of as an Atom paired with a nvidia graphics chip |
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| [06:36:44] | wagnerrp: | they usually go for $150 for a board, or $300+ for a full system |
| [06:37:01] | wagnerrp: | so a $30 ION would be a steal... only this is not that |
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| [06:50:55] | Tanthrix: | I so regret not paying the $3.99 extra for 1 day shipping for my HDPVR now... |
| [06:51:12] | [R]: | who had it in stock? |
| [06:51:25] | wagnerrp: | who charges $4 for overnight? |
| [06:52:10] | Tanthrix: | Amazon.com when you have an Amazon Prime account |
| [06:52:15] | Tanthrix: | Some of the best $80 I've ever spent |
| [06:52:45] | Tanthrix: | Ah hell, the price dropped to $200 now. |
| [06:53:02] | wagnerrp: | yeah, dell has had them for as low as $150 in the past |
| [06:54:03] | Tanthrix: | I wanted to get it from a place that did easy returns in case it end's up not working as perfect as I would like, so I don't mind paying extra |
| [06:54:31] | Tanthrix: | Though, the extra $10 pisses me off. It's one thing for the price to drop after I get the item, but for it to drop before it ships is lame. |
| [06:55:17] | [R]: | hrm... newegg has a "limit 99 per customer" |
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| [06:55:53] | Tanthrix: | [R]: Amazon seems to have 4 now, with free shipping too so about $20 less than newegg |
| [06:56:06] | [R]: | i got mine for 175 shipped |
| [06:56:18] | Tanthrix: | Nice, where from? |
| [06:56:27] | [R]: | um |
| [06:56:30] | [R]: | buy.com i think |
| [06:56:35] | [R]: | maybe it was newegg |
| [06:56:37] | [R]: | i forget |
| [06:56:45] | Tanthrix: | They have some crazy good deals sometimes, though I'm always slightly weary |
| [06:58:08] | Tanthrix: | Hrm, I could probably talk Amazon into giving me the $10, but I don't want to get on their bad side – they've been very good to me in the past. |
| [06:58:30] | [R]: | if it hasn't shipped |
| [06:58:32] | [R]: | can't you just cancel it? |
| [06:58:53] | Tanthrix: | They replaced a netbook I bought 5 days out of return policy, overnighted me a new one, which was very nice. |
| [06:58:58] | Tanthrix: | No, it shipped earlier today. |
| [06:59:17] | [R]: | i've been told never to check prices after buying something |
| [06:59:20] | [R]: | it just makes me depressed |
| [06:59:27] | Tanthrix: | The only time I've ever seen the cancel option was for things that were out of stock |
| [06:59:35] | Tanthrix: | Amazon prime stuff has to get going so fast they don't give you the chance |
| [06:59:47] | Tanthrix: | And that's probably good advice. |
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| [07:07:03] | Speedy2: | Hey all. How important is 1GB of RAM for VDPAU? |
| [07:09:30] | wagnerrp: | that depends |
| [07:10:02] | wagnerrp: | there were formerly some issues with the mythtv implementation of VDPAU on graphics boards with less than 512MB of memory |
| [07:10:04] | Speedy2: | I guess, what feature(s) need 1GB+ of RAM. |
| [07:10:12] | wagnerrp: | although i believe those have been resolved |
| [07:10:43] | wagnerrp: | there are some boards with embedded graphics that limit the shared memory based off how much total system memory you have |
| [07:11:40] | wagnerrp: | rest assured that anything above 512MB of video memory is overkill |
| [07:11:42] | Speedy2: | It seems the lowest power nVidia-based PCIe card with VP4 support looks like a G210 card. |
| [07:11:55] | Speedy2: | And G210 cards ONLY have 512MB of RAM. |
| [07:12:17] | wagnerrp: | they are also underpowered outside of their available memory |
| [07:12:20] | Speedy2: | lowest power PCIe card VP3+ support looks like a G210, I should say. |
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| [07:12:32] | Speedy2: | wagnerrp: If only used for HTPC, is it an issue? |
| [07:12:55] | wagnerrp: | underpowered meaning the deinterlace filters run on the shader hardware, and the GT210 is incapable of running some of them |
| [07:13:02] | Speedy2: | Oh :/ |
| [07:13:46] | Speedy2: | What sucks is the 9400M-type devices seem idea, but nVidia doesn't make them in PCIe card form factor. |
| [07:13:51] | Speedy2: | ideal |
| [07:13:59] | Speedy2: | Even ION is pretty low power |
| [07:14:05] | ** [R] lubs his ION ** | |
| [07:14:15] | wagnerrp: | and they are also underpowered for the same deinterlacers that the GT210 is |
| [07:14:22] | Speedy2: | bah! |
| [07:14:26] | wagnerrp: | as are my 8400 and 8200 |
| [07:14:27] | Speedy2: | Which deinterlacers? |
| [07:14:32] | wagnerrp: | but it not bothering me much |
| [07:14:52] | wagnerrp: | specifically, the advanced 2x deint at 1080i60 |
| [07:14:52] | [R]: | advanced 2x works good enough for me |
| [07:14:55] | [R]: | err |
| [07:14:57] | [R]: | temporal* |
| [07:15:43] | Tanthrix: | Speedy2: My GT220 only has 512mb, and I haven't had any issues. |
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| [07:15:59] | wagnerrp: | as mentioned, anything above 512 is overkill |
| [07:16:09] | wagnerrp: | and 256 is probably sufficient for vdpau |
| [07:16:12] | Speedy2: | Tanthrix: GT220 is more powerful than G210 |
| [07:16:25] | wagnerrp: | there *used* to be some issues, but i dont believe they exist any longer |
| [07:16:29] | Tanthrix: | I also need to point out the very day I got my 512Mb card newegg put the same card out with 1gb for the same price I paid. |
| [07:16:34] | wagnerrp: | at least ive not heard any complaints recently |
| [07:16:40] | Tanthrix: | Speedy2: That's true. |
| [07:16:51] | [R]: | i've never heard anyone say anything about needing more than 512 |
| [07:17:37] | Tanthrix: | Well, good to know it's overkill. That makes me feel slightly better.. |
| [07:17:59] | Speedy2: | Tanthrix: What de-interlacer do you use? |
| [07:19:04] | Tanthrix: | Tanthrix: Advanced 1x, HW if I recall correctly |
| [07:19:31] | [R]: | the people that make a big deal out fo the deinterlacers |
| [07:19:40] | [R]: | are also the same people who have moster cables and gold plated hdmi cables |
| [07:19:45] | Tanthrix: | Not at all. |
| [07:20:49] | Tanthrix: | Well, ok, I'll admit there may be some correlation. ;) But interlacers can be a big deal, especially if you have a large set outputting at 1080p and you're watching interlaced content |
| [07:21:04] | [R]: | i turned off the deinterlacer |
| [07:21:05] | [R]: | i saw it |
| [07:21:07] | [R]: | i turned it on |
| [07:21:08] | [R]: | and i saw it |
| [07:21:15] | [R]: | looked prefectly fine with temporal 2x |
| [07:21:31] | Speedy2: | Are these de-interlaces supported by VDPAU or written by Myth developers? |
| [07:21:36] | [R]: | Speedy2: vdpau |
| [07:22:01] | Tanthrix: | wagnerrp: You meantioned advanced 2x. I only seem to have 1x – is 2x only in trunk or something? |
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| [07:22:23] | Tanthrix: | wagnerrp: Not that I particularely care, but I spent $50 on the video card so I just assume use whatever best deinterlacer that I can |
| [07:22:25] | wagnerrp: | the primary deint can use all available |
| [07:22:36] | wagnerrp: | the secondary deint is only allowed to use 1x filters |
| [07:23:37] | Tanthrix: | So it seems! Thanks. |
| [07:24:15] | wagnerrp: | i need to stop opening up new terminals |
| [07:24:25] | wagnerrp: | i just looked down at my taskbar to see around 20 |
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| [07:24:35] | Tanthrix: | Happens to the best of us. |
| [07:25:13] | Tanthrix: | Speedy2: So, to re-answer your question, I am now using Advanced 2x and it's working just fine. |
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| [07:27:13] | Speedy2: | Tanthrix: But you're using a faster core than G210 ... |
| [07:27:27] | Speedy2: | I guess I'll do more research. |
| [07:27:36] | Tanthrix: | Speedy2: I know, just answering your question you asked me earlier. :) |
| [07:27:44] | Speedy2: | I appreciate it, thanks. |
| [07:28:00] | Speedy2: | What's your video quality like? Very subjective of course. |
| [07:28:00] | Tanthrix: | Speedy2: Out of curiosity, what is it that's making you have to stick with the G210? |
| [07:28:07] | wagnerrp: | Speedy2: why are you so concerned about power? |
| [07:28:46] | Speedy2: | I hate power wasting and excess heat? |
| [07:28:46] | Tanthrix: | Speedy2: Yah, hard to say. To be honest, I haven't made any detailed comparisons. I'm quite content though, and things look as crisp as I imagine they can be. |
| [07:28:53] | Speedy2: | heat == noise. |
| [07:29:16] | [R]: | heat doesnt make noise |
| [07:29:16] | Tanthrix: | Speedy2: I'm watching a SD mpeg2 cartoon now, and the lines look really good – no weird jaggies or anything like that. |
| [07:29:17] | [R]: | cooling does |
| [07:29:38] | wagnerrp: | Speedy2: you just need to use large fans |
| [07:29:45] | wagnerrp: | its only small high speed fans that are noisy |
| [07:30:01] | wagnerrp: | a large slow one can exhaust a lot of heat quietly |
| [07:31:06] | wagnerrp: | similarly, youre talking about maybe 20W difference between the 210 and 220, and thats only under playback load |
| [07:31:21] | wagnerrp: | while idling, theyre not going to be significantly different |
| [07:31:33] | wagnerrp: | and if youre concerned about wasting power, why leave the machine on when idling? |
| [07:31:38] | wagnerrp: | put it in standby or something |
| [07:32:32] | wagnerrp: | here we go... 3W difference idle, 23W difference under full load |
| [07:32:49] | Tanthrix: | My personal beef with video card fans is that they are always terrible quality and are guranteed to fail. I like passive whenever I can, but it seems like that's getting harder and harder to find. |
| [07:33:14] | wagnerrp: | yeah, my two old cards from my desktop have both failed |
| [07:33:32] | wagnerrp: | a 6600 and a 6800, perfectly nice functional cards |
| [07:33:39] | wagnerrp: | but i cant use them without replacing the heatsinks |
| [07:34:43] | Speedy2: | I have a 6200TC that's fanless. |
| [07:34:52] | Speedy2: | But of course that's no good for VDPAU |
| [07:36:46] | LonEagle: | i wanted to see if i needed vdpau |
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| [07:36:58] | LonEagle: | now my hard drive's dead. |
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| [07:37:42] | Tanthrix: | LonEagle: I upgraded my video card to get vdpau, and my motherboard died later that night. I feel your pain. |
| [07:37:54] | LonEagle: | purely coincidence i know |
| [07:38:00] | LonEagle: | but still, frickin annoying |
| [07:38:05] | Tanthrix: | Indeed. |
| [07:41:26] | justinh: | y'know the thing about any mechanical component like fans.. they all fail sooner or later :) |
| [07:41:53] | Tanthrix: | Yes, but I swear video card fans fail at like 10x the rate of PSU fans. |
| [07:41:56] | LonEagle: | yeah, this one failed sooner. |
| [07:42:02] | justinh: | lower quality ones might fail sooner, but even good quality ones fail eventually |
| [07:42:04] | LonEagle: | small high rpm fans do fail sooner. |
| [07:42:13] | LonEagle: | and psu fans you can usually find a replacement |
| [07:42:20] | LonEagle: | good luck with some of those custom mount tiny fans |
| [07:42:34] | justinh: | LonEagle: especially when the bearings dry out because of local heat ;) |
| [07:43:20] | justinh: | replacement heatsinks can be found quite easily, but I dunno if they're just for heatpipe & watercooling doozies |
| [07:43:32] | justinh: | they probably are only for those |
| [07:43:33] | LonEagle: | i always buy passive video cards too. |
| [07:43:46] | justinh: | passives still need to be cooled though ;) |
| [07:43:58] | LonEagle: | yup, with a cheap easily replaceable 120mm fan in the front of my case |
| [07:44:01] | justinh: | you can't just shove everything in a closed box & cross your fingers |
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| [07:44:20] | justinh: | then again somebody should tell the bosses where I work that |
| [07:44:48] | justinh: | a dome camera has been overheating lately... a design change proposal was to put a fan inside the case :-\ |
| [07:45:03] | justinh: | the camera housing is an IP rated sealed enclosure. LOL |
| [07:47:28] | justinh: | I'd like to mess about with heatpipes but they look well expensive |
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| [07:49:07] | Speedy2: | Does anyone here have their myth box set up to auto suspend and wake-up? |
| [07:49:42] | [R]: | i have mine fully shutdown |
| [07:50:48] | Speedy2: | How do you power it up? |
| [07:50:58] | [R]: | acpi wakeup |
| [07:51:02] | Speedy2: | auto-wakeup? |
| [07:51:28] | Speedy2: | i.e. does it wake up on at a particular time? |
| [07:51:39] | [R]: | [12:50:57] [R] acpi wakeup |
| [07:52:08] | justinh: | Speedy2: no, but I've tried suspending on my newest machine in linux (ubuntu karmic) & it really whines & moans because of a bug |
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| [07:52:10] | Speedy2: | I understand the concept. In your environment does it wake on key press or remote control button or? |
| [07:52:23] | justinh: | it otherwise works fine though as far as I can tell |
| [07:52:27] | [R]: | what would be the point of that |
| [07:52:34] | [R]: | id' miss all the recordings during the day |
| [07:52:49] | justinh: | Speedy2: some boards support wake on USB keypresses, and some USB IR receivers work with that :) |
| [07:52:59] | Speedy2: | So does the machine power down when not in use and in your case does it ACPI power up to record particular shows? |
| [07:53:09] | [R]: | thats what i just said |
| [07:53:14] | [R]: | this is all documented in the wiki |
| [07:53:19] | Speedy2: | In a cryptic way you might have said that. |
| [07:53:31] | justinh: | Speedy2: other boards & IR systems will need a little board with an onboard PIC to be able to power up via the remote |
| [07:53:53] | Speedy2: | justinh: Yeah, actually with USB-Serial converters, the host can power up if the USB/Serial IC sees activity on Ring Indicator. |
| [07:54:11] | justinh: | these boards have their own onboard IR receiver & are powered from +5VSB (standby 5v) & connect in line with the case power switch :) |
| [07:54:14] | Speedy2: | If the host supports the USB stuff. |
| [07:54:39] | Speedy2: | I haven't set it up though. |
| [07:54:57] | justinh: | helps to have a spare system to mess around with :) |
| [07:56:12] | justinh: | for autosuspend etc to be viable here I need a better router. my frontend netboots, so the backend machine is DHCP server etc |
| [07:56:30] | Speedy2: | FE is diskless for you? |
| [07:56:36] | justinh: | yeah |
| [07:56:48] | Speedy2: | Does it mount an NFS share with the root FS? |
| [07:56:52] | justinh: | don't see any point frying a HDD in that LC02 case for no reason |
| [07:56:57] | justinh: | yup |
| [07:57:05] | Speedy2: | What kinda hardware in your FE? |
| [07:57:11] | justinh: | mythbuntu, modified to within an inch of its life |
| [07:57:33] | justinh: | core2 mobile CPU, 1GB RAM... |
| [07:57:43] | justinh: | T5600 I think the CPU is |
| [07:58:30] | justinh: | I had problems making netbooting work.. lack of understanding initrd contributed to that |
| [07:58:43] | justinh: | wasn't *much* hassle though really |
| [07:59:07] | Speedy2: | I might setup my FE to use CompactFlash. Still lower power than spinning disk and less problematic. |
| [07:59:30] | justinh: | netbooting is nothing like as slow as it sounds |
| [07:59:42] | Speedy2: | I bet its damn fast and works well when setup. |
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| [08:00:02] | justinh: | I hacked some stuff out of init to shave a good few seconds off boot time |
| [08:00:31] | justinh: | it's nothing like GreyFoxx's mega-OMGoptimised setup with boot times of approx 10 secs though |
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| [08:01:16] | Speedy2: | Hrm, his setup sounds l33t. |
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| [08:05:55] | ** wagnerrp adds stuff to increase boot times ** | |
| [08:06:11] | wagnerrp: | im up to about 3 minutes now |
| [08:07:15] | Speedy2: | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814134085 |
| [08:07:17] | Speedy2: | Looks good |
| [08:07:20] | Speedy2: | passive, G210, 512MB RAM |
| [08:07:49] | wagnerrp: | the only time i bother fully shutting down is when im re-imaging the systems |
| [08:08:24] | wagnerrp: | which means booting to a new base image, pulling down an overlay off an NFS server (including themecache), and rebooting |
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| [08:13:55] | Speedy2: | Well, looks like the G210 based cards are worth trying. |
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| [08:30:02] | Speedy2: | Hey jya |
| [08:30:14] | Speedy2: | I used MetaKernel a long time ago. Nice work :) |
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| [08:35:30] | jya: | allright |
| [08:35:33] | jya: | can post now |
| [08:35:35] | jya: | finally... |
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| [08:35:52] | jya: | MetaKernel, that was a lifetime ago ... |
| [08:36:09] | Speedy2: | Yeah. HP48 almost seems a lifetime ago for me too. |
| [08:36:14] | Speedy2: | But I still use it. :) |
| [08:37:05] | jya: | Last time I wrote software for it was for the release of the HP50, that was in 2007 |
| [08:37:31] | jya: | HP subcontracted to us |
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| [08:37:50] | Speedy2: | What became of your eCos based PDA/calculator thing? |
| [08:39:06] | jya: | After spending $600K ; I thought that was enough |
| [08:39:16] | Speedy2: | Wow, you had that much capital? |
| [08:39:23] | jya: | try to sell the concept / prototype/code |
| [08:39:40] | jya: | we didn't but we secure the development for a big company instead |
| [08:39:53] | jya: | the money came from the sale of the metakernel |
| [08:40:04] | Speedy2: | To HP? |
| [08:40:07] | jya: | yes |
| [08:40:23] | Speedy2: | How's your company doing these days? |
| [08:40:51] | jya: | we also reused the archicture for a few devices we developed |
| [08:40:59] | Speedy2: | StrongARM / eCos? |
| [08:41:21] | jya: | doing okay; the last half year was pretty hard for us , big slow down in dev ; but it has picked up once again... Hiring now |
| [08:42:14] | Speedy2: | Do you still work with the MK guys? Seemed like a tight group. |
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| [08:45:16] | jya: | I work with Gerald who is a director of Hydrix. Cyrille is still working for HP ; and the 2 other guys I haven't heard of in a while |
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| [09:55:17] | Tanthrix: | Blah, laptop screen replacements are stressful. It is glaringly obvious that most of the connectors on these things are rated for like 1 insert and 0 removals. |
| [09:57:03] | oobe: | i been there |
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| [10:02:07] | Tanthrix: | This is why the shop I work at has a standing policy of no laptop screen replacements or power jack repairs. I made an exception for a good client this time, but I don't think I will again. |
| [10:02:50] | Tanthrix: | Luckily, it all turned out all right in the end, but there's just so many things that can go wrong in the process, usually completely unrelated to whatever component you are actually trying to replace. |
| [10:03:34] | oobe: | i tried to replace a screen on an ibm with no success |
| [10:03:58] | oobe: | then the inverter cable too i think i did that first cause it was cheaper |
| [10:04:34] | oobe: | mind you i dont have the skills or training |
| [10:11:03] | Dagmar: | Aha |
| [10:11:32] | Dagmar: | Once I kicked all the other playback profiles that *didn't* involve VDPAU off the machine, the funky audio issue went away |
| [10:14:33] | Dagmar: | I also figured out why the machine was so hot all the time. |
| [10:14:46] | Dagmar: | Apaprently the last time I was in there I left ALL the fans disconnected. |
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| [10:25:21] | oobe: | wow lucky it didnt fry |
| [10:25:48] | sid3windr: | alas it's not so quiet anymore? |
| [10:25:55] | sid3windr: | frakking +R |
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| [12:21:26] | Fleck: | hey where does mythtv frontend stores backend IP ? |
| [12:21:43] | Fleck: | i changed it in settings, but connects to old one anyway :/ |
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| [12:35:06] | Fleck: | anyone? |
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| [13:37:53] | antgel: | where is mytharchive's lock file? my run terminated early due to transcode not being installed, now whenever i go to "create dvd", it takes me to the log viewer |
| [13:38:33] | antgel: | ah, mythburn was still running, hung |
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| [16:37:18] | ivor: | justinh: heh that kernel oops I mentioned before has been diagnosed. http://lkml.org/lkml/2010/1/15/230 |
| [16:37:19] | j-rod: | man. I really really might have to switch all my frontends to run xbmc. |
| [16:37:38] | GreyFoxx: | Why? |
| [16:38:18] | j-rod: | two reasons... one, the UI is really really polished. two, it already has crystalhd support :) |
| [16:38:49] | j-rod: | I've got an svn trunk build of it from yesterday up and running right now |
| [16:39:37] | j-rod: | absolutely flawless 1080p h.264 playback of the really-high-bitrate big buck bunny film with about 40% cpu usage |
| [16:39:45] | GreyFoxx: | about once or twice a year I try it out and so far , honestly I don't like it, and can't understand why everyone loves it |
| [16:39:55] | GreyFoxx: | nice |
| [16:40:24] | j-rod: | (on a system with intel graphics) |
| [16:40:39] | GreyFoxx: | is everything being output over that including the UI I assume? |
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| [16:40:59] | j-rod: | no, ui is blended over to top of the output |
| [16:41:04] | j-rod: | output is still handled by the gpu |
| [16:41:08] | j-rod: | video output |
| [16:41:10] | GreyFoxx: | ok |
| [16:41:16] | j-rod: | its just the decoding is all offloaded |
| [16:41:42] | j-rod: | dma the encoded bitsream into the crystalhd, dma out a buffer full of decoded frames of video, do with them as you please |
| [16:41:48] | ** GreyFoxx is trying to find out whymplayer is showing some tearing at the top of the screen when using vdpau on some ION boxes my company wants to use ** | |
| [16:42:03] | GreyFoxx: | j-rod: That's pretty cool. Expensive? |
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| [16:42:14] | iamlindoro: | GreyFoxx: try turning composite off in xorg.conf? |
| [16:42:15] | j-rod: | nope |
| [16:42:30] | j-rod: | $69 new from logicsupply.com |
| [16:42:36] | j-rod: | though they're working on getting that cost down |
| [16:42:46] | j-rod: | or ~$20 via fleabay |
| [16:42:53] | ** sphery wonders when j-rod will have MythTV's CrystalHD support done :) ** | |
| [16:42:58] | j-rod: | (albeit for an older model) |
| [16:43:00] | j-rod: | heh |
| [16:43:10] | sphery: | (so j-rod can go back to using a real frontend) |
| [16:43:23] | GreyFoxx: | iamlindoro: I don't think that's enabled but just in case I'll try forcing it off |
| [16:43:24] | j-rod: | well, part of getting xbmc going was to see exactly how well it works |
| [16:43:30] | j-rod: | the xine plugin is... not quite there yet |
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| [16:43:40] | iamlindoro: | GreyFoxx: Have hear anecdotally that it helps, can't speak from experience |
| [16:43:42] | j-rod: | and the gstreamer plugin falls on its face with recent gstreamer/totem |
| [16:43:44] | sphery: | what about mplayer? does it have support? |
| [16:43:52] | j-rod: | not yet |
| [16:44:02] | sphery: | just curious |
| [16:44:05] | j-rod: | some ffmpeg guys are starting to work on it though |
| [16:44:15] | sphery: | means we still have time to not be the last :) |
| [16:44:56] | devinheitmueller: | j-rod: does the crystal-hd do decoding only? Or does it also have transcoding features? |
| [16:45:44] | j-rod: | so... if I drag my feet long enough... we inherit support via an ffmpeg resync... ;) |
| [16:45:54] | sphery: | that works, too |
| [16:45:55] | j-rod: | devinheitmueller: decoding only, so far as I know |
| [16:46:03] | devinheitmueller: | j-rod: ok, just curious. |
| [16:46:11] | sphery: | might actually be better than custom code for myth |
| [16:46:18] | j-rod: | it *will* do scaling, deinterlacing, etc though |
| [16:46:24] | sphery: | and it gives us an excuse to give users :) |
| [16:46:26] | devinheitmueller: | ah, nice. |
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| [16:46:49] | sphery: | so it could do all but the encode side of transcoding |
| [16:46:51] | devinheitmueller: | j-rod: will it scale/deinterlace raw video too, or just MPEG video? |
| [16:46:53] | j-rod: | sphery: yeah, kinda my thinking. they're likely to do a better job than me too. |
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| [16:47:16] | j-rod: | devinheitmueller: mpeg1, mpeg2, h.264, vc1 in the bcm970012 part |
| [16:47:20] | devinheitmueller: | j-rod: ok. |
| [16:47:21] | sphery: | well, I wasn't saying that, but that it would be easier to maintain long term if we use theirs :) |
| [16:47:35] | wagnerrp: | sphery, iamlindoro: either of you catch kormoc's recommended schema change yesterday? |
| [16:47:35] | j-rod: | add a few other mpeg4 variants to the bcm970015 part |
| [16:47:41] | ** devinheitmueller should really just look at the damn datasheet instead of bugging j-rod with questions. ** | |
| [16:47:45] | j-rod: | which isn't supported by the driver yet, but I have the hardware now |
| [16:48:10] | j-rod: | devinheitmueller: hey, no problem, I'm caching credits... ;) |
| [16:48:22] | ** j-rod needs to get back to that ub435-q one of these days... ** | |
| [16:48:25] | devinheitmueller: | heh. I don't think I have anything to offer you in return. :-) |
| [16:48:25] | sphery: | wagnerrp: I did... I thought iamlindoro might be a better person to consider/test it--after all, I forgot to update MV schema version in the python bindings after my last schema change :) |
| [16:48:34] | GreyFoxx: | iamlindoro: It looks like that might have done it |
| [16:48:38] | gbee: | Does anyone think the BBC HD EPG scrambling is a bad thing? |
| [16:48:52] | GreyFoxx: | Composite was on by default (and therefore not in my config file) so I didn't think to turn it off |
| [16:48:57] | j-rod: | devinheitmueller: oh, but you do :) |
| [16:49:00] | sphery: | wagnerrp: actually, since those tables would only be big enough to benefit from an index if you have a large collection, I don't really have a good test case |
| [16:49:00] | GreyFoxx: | but so far with it disabled I haven't seen any tearing |
| [16:49:06] | iamlindoro: | GreyFoxx: cool |
| [16:49:12] | sphery: | (though I could fake it) |
| [16:49:39] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp: sphery: I am not averse to it, but would like to understand better how it actually benefits MythVideo and it would be easier if someone submitted a patch |
| [16:49:52] | ** TauPan checks if he joined #mythtv by accident. ** | |
| [16:49:54] | iamlindoro: | admittedly I was extremely busy so didn't take the time to think very much about it |
| [16:50:14] | sphery: | TauPan: sorry... we should probably keep the dev chatter to a minimum in here :) |
| [16:50:26] | j-rod: | sphery: really though... using the decoder isn't all that terribly complex, so I do plan to at least look to see if I can maybe figure out how to get mythtv using it, its just a matter of getting around to it... |
| [16:50:50] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: basically i have a big search function that will take various different options, and return one or more videos |
| [16:50:59] | devinheitmueller: | Hey, is anybody here who thinks the HVR-1600 analog quality is worse than the PVR-x50? |
| [16:51:14] | wagnerrp: | right now, it has the ability to search for movies with one specific actor (or genre, or country) |
| [16:51:36] | wagnerrp: | that change would allow searches for videos with a combination of actors |
| [16:51:44] | devinheitmueller: | I'm just trying to gauge if anybody actually cares about the analog quality being delivered by some of these newer tuners... |
| [16:52:15] | sphery: | I know a lot of people in the US are buying the HVR-1600 because they don't trust ebay/used PVR-x50's. |
| [16:52:16] | wagnerrp: | so the example in the pastebin, searching for 'Tom Hanks' gets me a dozen or so movies |
| [16:52:32] | wagnerrp: | searching for 'Tom Hanks' and 'Ed Harris' would get me just Apollo 13 |
| [16:53:17] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp: Easiest thing would be if you provide a patch for me, failing that just the sql would be a big help and I'll handle the schema update stuff |
| [16:53:34] | ivor: | gbee: you referring to that ofcom survey? |
| [16:53:36] | sphery: | Though I have no analog sources, so I have no experience with the HVR analog encoders. |
| [16:53:51] | wagnerrp: | will do |
| [16:54:26] | sphery: | wagnerrp / iamlindoro : what's the status on the Python-based scripts / the Python bindings update? |
| [16:54:46] | wagnerrp: | sphery: RDV_Linux is pretty much done, hes just testing |
| [16:54:47] | sphery: | just curious--I'm hoping to move to a real/stable bindings API for 0.23 |
| [16:54:52] | sphery: | great! |
| [16:55:03] | wagnerrp: | im going to make sure all the stuff in the bindings, plus my couple of scripts are working fine |
| [16:55:16] | sphery: | (even if it's not stable, it's at least semi-stable in comparison to the one being thrown out) |
| [16:55:17] | wagnerrp: | and probably put it up sunday or so |
| [16:55:34] | sphery: | up = in trunk? |
| [16:55:41] | wagnerrp: | yeah |
| [16:55:51] | sphery: | excellent |
| [16:56:01] | wagnerrp: | update all the python stuff currently in there at once |
| [16:56:17] | sphery: | yeah, that's the way to do it |
| [16:56:38] | iamlindoro: | Have we determined whether there's any installer conflict between new/old bindings yet? |
| [16:56:48] | wagnerrp: | hmm... forgot about that |
| [16:56:55] | wagnerrp: | yeah, ill have to fix that before submitting |
| [16:57:09] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: everything is in dbcheck.cpp, right? |
| [16:57:13] | iamlindoro: | not trying to throw a wrench in things, was just genuinely curious |
| [16:57:16] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp: yeah |
| [16:57:31] | sphery: | (that being MythVideo's dbcheck :) |
| [16:57:35] | gbee: | ivor: yeah, I think people are missing the obvious |
| [16:58:01] | ** sphery goes to read the threads on -dev and -users ** | |
| [16:58:59] | sphery: | wow, that's worse than the US |
| [16:59:21] | sphery: | Hollywood's reach is extending ever farther |
| [16:59:25] | RDV_Linux: | iamlindoro: I have looked at the MNV grabber changes for the new bindings and all od them will not take more than 1.5 hours including testing. |
| [16:59:37] | iamlindoro: | nice |
| [16:59:45] | gbee: | that is, the BBC are proposing a weak and technically useless means of protection, and the BBC tech guys aren't idiots, ergo they are deliberately choosing a method which gives an illusion of protection that satisfies content producers |
| [17:00:32] | sphery: | Isn't it impossible for FOSS to implement HDCP, DTCP, and AACS (at least--possibly the others, too, depending on what they mean by those)? |
| [17:00:46] | gbee: | without it they probably won't be able to show certain films in HD and we all lose out |
| [17:01:01] | antgel: | gbee: is it even relevant for those using the rt grabber? admittedly i don't understand the full proposal or implications |
| [17:01:07] | gbee: | sphery: there is NO DRM or encryption involved |
| [17:01:19] | devinheitmueller: | gbee: the BBC is big enough to give the content producers the finger and they will comply. |
| [17:01:22] | gbee: | antgel: entirely irrelevant for those using the RT grabber |
| [17:01:24] | sphery: | gbee: yeah, but the licensing terms require that you implement the DRM? |
| [17:02:25] | wagnerrp: | sphery: technically, no... you can implement those all you want |
| [17:02:25] | antgel: | gbee: sounds good. would hate my mythboxes to suddenly stop working one day for that reason. bluray was the first time i ever couldn't watch what i wanted on linux, and i'm in no hurry to get to the thick end of the wedge |
| [17:02:39] | gbee: | devinheitmueller: clearly they don't think so otherwise they'd not be pushing ahead with this Emperor's Clothes solution (i.e. telling Hollywood that there is DRM when in reality there is none) |
| [17:02:40] | wagnerrp: | theres just nothing preventing someone else from going in and disabling the lockouts |
| [17:02:59] | j-rod: | devinheitmueller: an idea that crossed my mind on the 'does it transcode' front... send mpeg2 bitstream into crystalhd... send the decoded raw video to a turbo.264 hd, which would of course spit out h.264... |
| [17:03:09] | devinheitmueller: | gbee: but there *is* DRM – just enough to prevent legitimate products from working properly without the license. |
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| [17:03:35] | devinheitmueller: | j-rod: did you ever do any research into the turbo.264 hd? |
| [17:03:50] | j-rod: | the turbo.264 hd will transcode a ripped (legally, of course!) DVD of ~2hr in length in about 20 minutes |
| [17:03:55] | devinheitmueller: | j-rod: I had thought about it, but since everybody gave the original product such dismal reviews from a quality standpoint, I hadn't bothered. |
| [17:03:57] | sphery: | j-rod: is the turbo.264 another b-com product? |
| [17:03:57] | j-rod: | not much |
| [17:03:59] | gbee: | devinheitmueller: compressing the EPG isn't DRM, you can't possibly equate the two |
| [17:04:11] | j-rod: | sphery: no, el gato |
| [17:04:18] | j-rod: | mac-only atm |
| [17:04:19] | gbee: | sphery: you'd only be bound by licensing if you decode the EPG |
| [17:04:23] | j-rod: | (I believe) |
| [17:04:26] | j-rod: | but I have one |
| [17:04:27] | sphery: | and has ... guess no Linux support :) |
| [17:04:51] | j-rod: | correct. Its yet another thing to poke at on my very lengthy TODO list |
| [17:04:56] | sphery: | gbee: agreed... So your stance would be to use RT? |
| [17:06:00] | gbee: | the video/audio/subtitles etc will all remain FTA, only that one channel's EPG data will be compression (not even encrypted), in return for the Huffman tables to decompress the EPG you'd agree to prevent users copying recordings off the DVR |
| [17:06:11] | wagnerrp: | hey! Udo's back |
| [17:06:43] | sphery: | wagnerrp: if he can get me a place to buy a Regor e series, I'm glad to see him :) |
| [17:07:18] | sphery: | gbee: guess I should just wait for your promised further details. |
| [17:07:23] | wagnerrp: | its been so long, i dont even remember what he was doing on the lists that was annoying or otherwise of note |
| [17:07:34] | gbee: | sphery: yes and to support the BBC in this, rather than fight it and force something worse – probably less third party content (mostly films) |
| [17:07:39] | devinheitmueller: | j-rod: http://tipok.org.ua/node/13 |
| [17:07:52] | sphery: | gbee: ahhh... makes perfect sense, now |
| [17:08:44] | gbee: | irony is that Freesat already uses Huffman encoded EPGs, no-one is complaing about that, several other countries also use proprietary or encoded/encrypted EPGs too, it's a non-issue |
| [17:10:42] | ** sphery doesn't ask whether we have a license to use the Huffman tables we have ** | |
| [17:12:42] | sphery: | j-rod: You mentioned how fast the turbo.264 encodes. Can the CrystalHD decode faster than real time? |
| [17:13:29] | j-rod: | yes. at least, I think so... |
| [17:13:39] | j-rod: | it'll do trickplay type things |
| [17:13:49] | j-rod: | with perfectly smooth accelerated playback |
| [17:13:52] | sphery: | nice |
| [17:14:11] | ** j-rod needs to disappear now, futbol time... ** | |
| [17:14:14] | sphery: | I will never again consider a solution that doesn't allow my timestretch |
| [17:14:22] | sphery: | have fun |
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| [17:25:17] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp: Pretty close, only thing you missed was to set the current schema at the top |
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| [17:25:57] | wagnerrp: | ah, whoops |
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| [17:29:15] | gbee: | might have laboured the point a little in that email, but hopefully it does the trick |
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| [17:40:26] | wagnerrp: | i thought they were proposing compressing the program table as well |
| [17:40:46] | wagnerrp: | something that would end up breaking tuning |
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| [17:48:38] | CyberKnet: | I'm constantly checking in here at the end of interesting conversations. |
| [17:48:56] | CyberKnet: | gack. Then I have to figure out how far to go back to read the whole thing. Can't you guys coordinate with me on this? ;) |
| [17:49:20] | mag0o: | irssi? |
| [17:50:13] | antgel: | CyberKnet: channel is logged |
| [17:51:11] | iamlindoro: | don't think he was complaining about lack of access to the conversations |
| [17:51:21] | iamlindoro: | in fact, he was making a joke |
| [17:51:29] | iamlindoro: | but way to jump right on him ;) |
| [17:52:00] | gbee: | wagnerrp: there was some confusion early on when details first leaked, but now the full proposal is out and in print it's clear that it's just Huffman compression of the EIT as they are already doing for Freesat, difference is that the Freesat platform was built from the ground up to include Huffman compressed EIT, Freeview wasn't and they need permission from the regulator |
| [17:52:02] | mag0o: | CyberKnet: if you're using irssi, there's a nice script that places a dashed line at the place where you left the window |
| [17:53:01] | gbee: | people are making a mountain out of a mole hill, beating the war drums and all because they haven't read the details – just the headlines |
| [17:56:36] | CyberKnet: | mag0o: Yeah, I think my client has that support... Mostly I try to key off of when certain individuals first start contributing to the conversation, and read from there. |
| [17:56:53] | CyberKnet: | (names withheld so that I don't burn anyone by not mentioning them) |
| [17:57:15] | ** CyberKnet looks pointedly in iamlindoro's direction ** | |
| [17:57:42] | iamlindoro: | I think that's a compliment? |
| [17:57:43] | CyberKnet: | Yes, it would be a real shame if someone thought I didn't value their conversational input. heh. |
| [17:58:21] | CyberKnet: | Actually though, I learned about two products from that conversation that I had never heard of before – (turbo.h264 and crystalhd) |
| [17:58:28] | CyberKnet: | so ... I guess I come out ahead in the long run |
| [17:59:28] | CyberKnet: | Someone should put together a 'cool new hardware you might want to use with Myth' newsletter. I'd subscribe to that. /Especially/ if it had a 'frothing-at-the-mouth-zomgwtfbbq' cablecard section that could get me worked up for nothing. |
| [17:59:41] | sphery: | wagnerrp: aren't the Python bindings installed into the system-specified Python packages directories? If so, we do not want to do http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7264#comment:9 . (The Perl bindings are also installed into the system-specified location for Perl modules--so I get /usr for Perl bindings even with /usr/local for prefix for Myth.) |
| [17:59:41] | CyberKnet: | I find your ideas intriguing... heh |
| [18:00:24] | wagnerrp: | sphery: 'python setup.py install' installs to where python wants to use it from, yes |
| [18:00:42] | wagnerrp: | but it seems the python.pro is doing some funky stuff, passing --root= and --prefix= arguments in |
| [18:00:45] | sphery: | CyberKnet: for your CableCARD wishes: http://www.wegotserved.com/2010/01/07/ceton-a . . . edia-center/ |
| [18:01:11] | wagnerrp: | im not up on my qmake or python distutils to understand what exactly its doing there |
| [18:01:24] | sphery: | wagnerrp: ah, so if it's breaking things, fixing it is good, but installing to the proper location for the system is desired |
| [18:01:28] | wagnerrp: | it may be best to just drop the whole thing and let python do what it wants |
| [18:01:59] | wagnerrp: | sphery: its not broken on any of my systems |
| [18:02:16] | wagnerrp: | and ive got systems that use /usr/local, and others that use /usr |
| [18:03:02] | wagnerrp: | whether that was the mythtv source, or the gentoo ebuild doing it... i dont know |
| [18:03:10] | wagnerrp: | but the old bindings installed just fine on my systems |
| [18:04:54] | CyberKnet: | sphery: I've been half-mad about Ceton for years. |
| [18:05:04] | CyberKnet: | sphery: mythtv-users posts would confirm that. heh. |
| [18:05:40] | CyberKnet: | Eventually I'll bite the bullet and just do hdpvr. |
| [18:05:58] | CyberKnet: | but – like all things, I'll complain loudly to anyone that doesn't want to listen in the mean time |
| [18:06:23] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah, I'm getting a --root="/" on mine, but it still installs to /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/MythTV-0.21-py2.5.egg-info and /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/MythTV |
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| [18:06:56] | CyberKnet: | I'm surprised I haven't gotten as bad a reputation as dusty. |
| [18:07:01] | CyberKnet: | or have I? ;) |
| [18:07:05] | sphery: | heh |
| [18:07:14] | wagnerrp: | im not up on my qmake-eese to understand what exactly that .pro is doing |
| [18:10:14] | CyberKnet: | Hmmm... so about the crystalhd ... does it hold any advantage over viddypow other than working on non-nvidia platforms? |
| [18:10:39] | wagnerrp: | its a decoder, rather than a video output |
| [18:10:58] | wagnerrp: | its basic functionality passes the decoded video back into the system |
| [18:11:22] | wagnerrp: | so it can be a drop in replacement for libav* in things such as mythcommflag or mythtranscode |
| [18:11:39] | CyberKnet: | Where decode time is currently limiting the processing |
| [18:11:43] | wagnerrp: | VDPAU supposedly has this capacity as well, but ive never seen anyone implement it |
| [18:12:08] | CyberKnet: | I see. I was goign to say I thought I had heard that viddy could do that, but I hadn't seen anything saying that it was being done now. |
| [18:12:27] | CyberKnet: | or rather, that the chipsets that worked with VDPAU could do that. |
| [18:12:32] | CyberKnet: | I hadn't heard that VDPAU could. |
| [18:12:57] | wagnerrp: | VDPAU just handles the video data internally as textures |
| [18:13:05] | wagnerrp: | and supposedly you can pull the 'textures' back out of the card |
| [18:13:09] | CyberKnet: | aaah. |
| [18:13:26] | CyberKnet: | seems to me (an entirely undeducated person) that that would be slow-ish... |
| [18:13:53] | wagnerrp: | well it all depends on what the decode capacity is |
| [18:14:09] | CyberKnet: | Oh. I meant the operation of pulling a texture back off of the card |
| [18:14:10] | wagnerrp: | does it only allow for playback, or can it do full decode at several times speed |
| [18:14:38] | wagnerrp: | no... PCIe is symmetric, and youre only talking 375MB/s for 1080p60 |
| [18:14:41] | CyberKnet: | I guess this would be my lack of education in this arena showing. |
| [18:15:13] | CyberKnet: | Hmm... well, I could see for a dedicated backend that a crystalhd card could be very useful, given support. |
| [18:15:20] | CyberKnet: | for the things you mentioned. |
| [18:15:43] | sphery: | wagnerrp: I, too, am qmake-challenged |
| [18:15:43] | CyberKnet: | now we just need a pcie card with an asic for doing comm detection on a given frame. ;) |
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| [18:16:19] | Dibblah: | A nvidia card is an ASIC. |
| [18:16:26] | ** CyberKnet thinks about interesting ways to do that with a shader ** | |
| [18:16:39] | ** CyberKnet remembers he knows nothing about shaders. ** | |
| [18:16:41] | CyberKnet: | oh well. |
| [18:17:10] | Dibblah: | A general purpose ASIC. Muhhhh... |
| [18:17:11] | Speedy2: | CyberKnet: If you could pull the raw decoded frames from the video card, this would let you intelligently do comm detection |
| [18:17:44] | CyberKnet: | There. That's enough incitement for one day. |
| [18:17:59] | CyberKnet: | time to go get some spaghetti. |
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| [18:19:02] | skd5aner: | Yay – finally got nuvexport working for me :) |
| [18:19:12] | skd5aner: | it's been years |
| [18:20:27] | skd5aner: | anyway – I'm now experiencing that the internal player stops responding to keyboard input during playback of the x264 clips I made |
| [18:20:40] | iamlindoro: | s/x/H./ |
| [18:21:09] | skd5aner: | yes |
| [18:21:35] | skd5aner: | sorry, just saying I'm using the libx264 library, but to your point – H.264 |
| [18:22:53] | skd5aner: | the clips play back fine, and the CPU doesn't looked pegged, but the keyboard just stops working |
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| [18:25:21] | skd5aner: | any thoughts on how to troubleshoot? |
| [18:25:42] | wagnerrp: | you cannot decode video with libx264 |
| [18:26:10] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: ? |
| [18:26:29] | wagnerrp: | its an encoding library, youre not using it for decoding |
| [18:26:59] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: not trying to use it to decode, it's what I used to encode the clip |
| [18:27:40] | skd5aner: | Just trying to play back the clip in the internal player in mythvideo |
| [18:27:48] | sphery: | skd5aner: got bookmarks? |
| [18:28:01] | skd5aner: | sphery: let me check... |
| [18:28:40] | skd5aner: | sphery: yes, it appears so |
| [18:28:53] | sphery: | did that issue get fixed in recent trunk? |
| [18:29:15] | sphery: | if trunk, make sure you're current... if -fixes, I think the solution is no bookmarks on MythVideo videos |
| [18:29:21] | sphery: | it's a Qt focus issue |
| [18:29:23] | skd5aner: | -fixes... |
| [18:29:40] | skd5aner: | ok – can I disable bookmarks for videos in the settings? |
| [18:29:52] | sphery: | nope, have to clear them |
| [18:30:08] | sphery: | which requires playing back |
| [18:30:31] | sphery: | I think the clear bookmark on playback start works with MythVideo, but don't quote me on that |
| [18:30:51] | skd5aner: | nope, it just creates a bookmark based on where you leave off I believe |
| [18:30:52] | sphery: | that way it won't require any keys--assuming you don't also have set "automatically save bookmark" or something |
| [18:30:59] | skd5aner: | which is how I got the bookmark in the first place |
| [18:31:07] | sphery: | that's a different setting |
| [18:31:19] | skd5aner: | yea, looking for that setting now |
| [18:31:39] | sphery: | "Clear bookmark on playback" in TV Playback settings |
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| [18:31:59] | skd5aner: | yea, video honors the TV setting it looks like |
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| [18:32:29] | sphery: | Action on playback exit may need to be Just exit (though maybe not if you play to the end) |
| [18:34:45] | skd5aner: | yea, let me try that setting first "action on playback exit" and see what happens |
| [18:35:01] | skd5aner: | glad to know you guys are already aware of this issue |
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| [18:36:03] | sphery: | yeah, I think in trunk the Qt-based popup was replaced with a mythui popup, so it doesn't trip the bug, anymore |
| [18:37:05] | skd5aner: | dare I upgrade to trunk and validate? ;) |
| [18:37:29] | skd5aner: | seems to look like it's fairly stable from commits |
| [18:38:30] | sphery: | depends whether you keep up with -dev and -commits and whether you want to take responsibility for making your system work right :) |
| [18:39:23] | skd5aner: | pretty much part of the daily routine/hobby/habbit for a few years |
| [18:40:38] | skd5aner: | but – After .20, I pretty much got back into the habit of running -fixes, saves time and effort and stress from the wife as to why she can't watch any of her recordings while I work on the system :) |
| [18:41:13] | skd5aner: | plus – freeze is coming up for .23, might as well wait it out until at least then |
| [18:41:38] | wagnerrp: | i wouldnt be sure about that |
| [18:41:50] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: about the freeze date? |
| [18:42:18] | wagnerrp: | 'code freeze' means everyone dumps all their new features in regardless of state, and spends the next month before release debugging them |
| [18:42:23] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [18:42:30] | skd5aner: | I mean, I suppose I wouldn't be surprised if it slips – and yea, that too |
| [18:42:42] | skd5aner: | ;) |
| [18:43:13] | skd5aner: | I was going to work on a patch for .23, but at this point – I'd rather wait than try to rush it out the door |
| [18:47:11] | skd5aner: | sphery: clear bookmark on playback is checked, and "Action on Playback exit" is now set to: just exit, however watching a whole clip through didn't clear the bookmark |
| [18:48:18] | skd5aner: | of course, I have to watch it all the through, given that it's unresponsive to controls, haha |
| [18:49:03] | sphery: | hmmm... Not sure why that would be |
| [18:49:13] | sphery: | I don't know much about MV |
| [18:50:21] | skd5aner: | maybe if I chose "playback from bookmark"? |
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| [18:53:09] | fluxdude_: | is it possible to have a scan of my videos only scan a certain directory for new files? |
| [18:53:15] | skd5aner: | sphery: yup, that's what I had to do, can't chose "play from begining", the bookmark will persist, I had to chose "Play from bookmark", watch the whole video, then the next playback worked as exepected |
| [18:53:25] | fluxdude_: | I am finding that the scan for changes option takes forever because of the large amount of files I have on the network and which do not change |
| [18:53:36] | fluxdude_: | so I'd like to scan only the directory with stuff that will be changing... |
| [18:54:16] | iamlindoro: | fluxdude_: no, the scan is global for all your configured directories |
| [18:54:26] | sphery: | skd5aner: interesting... never noticed that |
| [18:55:50] | skd5aner: | I'm assuming that this fix is too different between trunk and fixes to backport to -fixes? |
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| [18:57:14] | sphery: | well, it's a new feature... probably something you could do locally, though |
| [18:57:37] | sphery: | that's just a guess, though--I haven't actually looked at it |
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| [19:00:40] | gbee: | iamlindoro: it's strange but when I changed mythmusic's scan to just look at lastmod times of folders, it was actually slower than examining every last file |
| [19:01:23] | iamlindoro: | gbee: MFSW will hopefully be the answer to all our woes |
| [19:01:55] | sphery: | Myth For Safe Work! |
| [19:02:31] | iamlindoro: | Myth Fondles Sassy Wenches |
| [19:02:36] | gbee: | iamlindoro: aye, really looking forward to that |
| [19:02:44] | sphery: | and now MFSW becomes NSFW |
| [19:03:05] | ** sphery wonders which of iamlindoro's comments gbee is looking forward to ** | |
| [19:03:12] | iamlindoro: | "yes" |
| [19:03:18] | gbee: | ;) |
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| [19:27:13] | fluxdude_: | does anyone have any ideas on how to make the scan faster? |
| [19:27:43] | gbee: | rm -rf /videos |
| [19:27:55] | fluxdude_: | when I go in to videos it can take minutes or tens of minutes for the scan to finish and get control of the menu again which is infuriating |
| [19:28:10] | gbee: | fluxdude_: then upgrade to 0.22 |
| [19:28:21] | fluxdude_: | gbee: that isn't funny |
| [19:28:44] | fluxdude_: | am runnign 0.22 already |
| [19:28:48] | ** kormoc laughs at gbee's joke ** | |
| [19:28:56] | gbee: | then it's not scanning when you go into videos |
| [19:29:05] | gbee: | because that's not the behaviour of 0.22 |
| [19:29:40] | fluxdude_: | i thought it scanned every time you entered videos from the menu... |
| [19:29:58] | fluxdude_: | when I go out and back to videos it takes a while and then new stuff appears |
| [19:29:59] | kormoc: | not in 0.22 |
| [19:30:06] | gbee: | no, not in 0.22 and not in 0.21 unless you went into the Manager view |
| [19:31:00] | j-rod: | devinheitmueller: oh, crap! I completely missed the link you provided to the maxim crusher driver stuff... |
| [19:31:10] | j-rod: | very cool |
| [19:31:46] | devinheitmueller: | it's for the old version of the turbo.264, but he seems to be working on the HD version, and it would probably be a good starting point either way. |
| [19:31:58] | fluxdude_: | 0.22.0+fixes22594–0ubuntu1 and that is the behaviour I have observed... |
| [19:32:04] | j-rod: | yeah, MG3500 in the HD not yet supported |
| [19:33:04] | gbee: | fluxdude_: is this a network, or remote boot frontend with no local storage? |
| [19:33:04] | j-rod: | so an ffmpeg build with both crystalhd and crusher264 support could be crazy-fast for mpeg2 to h264 transcoding :) |
| [19:33:37] | fluxdude_: | it has a network mount point linked under videos to get vids over the network |
| [19:33:56] | fluxdude_: | that stuff doesn't change which is why I don't want it constantly rescanned |
| [19:34:05] | gbee: | fluxdude_: it's not scanning |
| [19:34:15] | fluxdude_: | but local vids too under videos |
| [19:34:16] | gbee: | but obviously it's doing something |
| [19:34:22] | j-rod: | I totally need to ship my wife and kids to california for a week or three to see my wife's family |
| [19:34:31] | j-rod: | I could get so much shit done |
| [19:34:56] | fluxdude_: | ok it seems to not be doing it any more |
| [19:34:59] | gbee: | and it's not loading images, since that's thread and with local storage they would be cached anyway |
| [19:35:25] | fluxdude_: | however, when scanning manually, it still takes ages for very little, must be because it's scanning over the network |
| [19:35:51] | fluxdude_: | there really should be some way to tell it not to bother rescanning certain directories in the hierarchy... |
| [19:35:54] | gbee: | fluxdude_: probably, you should consider using storage groups for videos instead |
| [19:35:56] | GreyFoxx: | nfs or samba>? lan or wireless ? |
| [19:36:06] | fluxdude_: | it's very inefficient to scan a tb over the network |
| [19:36:20] | fluxdude_: | samba, wifi, but good strength |
| [19:36:26] | gbee: | eww, samba |
| [19:36:29] | GreyFoxx: | fluxdude_: it takes seconds on my box to do a scan of a 3TB file system |
| [19:36:36] | kormoc: | if it's very inefficient to do a ls on your videos over the network, you're doing it wrong |
| [19:36:38] | ** iamlindoro has a 22 TB MythVideo array that he manages to scan in a second or two ** | |
| [19:36:45] | iamlindoro: | (SG) |
| [19:36:50] | GreyFoxx: | now if it was all new content it would be longer |
| [19:36:50] | gbee: | use nfs instead if you can, samba just isn't up to the job IMHO |
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| [19:36:55] | GreyFoxx: | but if it's not then it wont take long |
| [19:37:06] | fluxdude_: | ah, but this is shared out from a wintendo box |
| [19:37:21] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: that doesnt count... the bulk of your capacity is in 30GB+ files |
| [19:37:30] | fluxdude_: | the network is next to a wifi point getting the full 54Mbps |
| [19:37:35] | iamlindoro: | Still a couple K files |
| [19:37:41] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: are you attempting to get the award for the worst setup? Cause clever has you beat still... |
| [19:37:44] | fluxdude_: | the box is in the same room as the wifi point i mean |
| [19:37:59] | fluxdude_: | meh |
| [19:38:17] | kormoc: | "I've done everything I can to slow it down, so make it faster!" :P |
| [19:38:18] | fluxdude_: | I don't want to spend another £50 on more powerline ethernet adapters |
| [19:38:32] | kormoc: | there you go, attempting to make it worse! |
| [19:38:37] | fluxdude_: | the ability to exclude dirs from scans is still a good feature idea |
| [19:38:53] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: patches welcome |
| [19:38:57] | fluxdude_: | it's a feature worth having... |
| [19:38:57] | iamlindoro: | Not interested |
| [19:39:00] | wagnerrp: | fluxdude_: thats why you spend £150 on a mile of cat6, and wire your home |
| [19:39:00] | iamlindoro: | won't apply them |
| [19:39:02] | GreyFoxx: | I use to have custom patch to do that |
| [19:39:11] | GreyFoxx: | if you had a .ignore file in the directory it would skip it |
| [19:39:12] | JoshBorke: | iamlindoro: 22TB is a lot of space |
| [19:39:19] | gbee: | for a minority maybe, and then the rest of us have to deal with new settings and longer menus to accomodate it |
| [19:39:24] | fluxdude_: | that is exactly what I mean |
| [19:39:42] | fluxdude_: | a .ignore file is a basic ability a lot of programs have things like --exclude= |
| [19:39:59] | iamlindoro: | Moot point, won't do |
| [19:40:09] | kormoc: | it's still extremely stilly,as in a week/month/year/dedcade when you modify a file and it doesn't pick it up, there's another bug report, yay! |
| [19:40:10] | fluxdude_: | wagnerrp: that's annoying |
| [19:40:20] | fluxdude_: | cabling a 3 story house sucks |
| [19:40:24] | wagnerrp: | fluxdude_: the whole issue will likely be gone in 0.24 if the file monitor goes in |
| [19:40:34] | kormoc: | wagnerrp: not over samba it wont afaik |
| [19:40:55] | fluxdude_: | file monitor will do updates in the background? |
| [19:40:57] | fluxdude_: | how does it work? |
| [19:40:57] | GreyFoxx: | I just checked and my scan at home last night took 3 seconds, over nfs, of a 3TB filesystem, with over 4k entries |
| [19:41:00] | fluxdude_: | inotify? |
| [19:41:02] | GreyFoxx: | though none of it was new content |
| [19:41:26] | kormoc: | wagnerrp: for his setup, it'd be scanning constantly as there's no inotify support for samba afaik |
| [19:41:30] | fluxdude_: | the storage is on 200Mbps powerline ethernet |
| [19:41:34] | kormoc: | wagnerrp: so his setup would just sit there io pegged |
| [19:41:37] | gbee: | didn't we do this already? I'm having major episode of deja-vu |
| [19:41:41] | fluxdude_: | and the wifi the myth has is in the same room as the wifi ap |
| [19:41:46] | iamlindoro: | yep, yesterday |
| [19:42:00] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: both technologies are well known for being extremely flaky and slow... |
| [19:42:01] | wagnerrp: | fluxdude_: i sit not 10ft from the WiFi AP at work |
| [19:42:08] | wagnerrp: | and im constantly getting network drops |
| [19:42:11] | fluxdude_: | indeed inotify wouldn't help at all for people with multiple computers with files here and there |
| [19:42:18] | fluxdude_: | connected over any network share |
| [19:42:20] | GreyFoxx: | Man this is just messed up. On a customers machine clicking the start button does nothing :) |
| [19:42:29] | wagnerrp: | fluxdude_: sure it will, youre expected to be running mythbackend on each of those machines |
| [19:42:46] | wagnerrp: | so you stream over mythproto, rather than over the network share |
| [19:42:46] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: which is why we're not recommending that setup, mythbackend on each file store is the recommended setup |
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| [19:43:02] | kormoc: | wagnerrp: he's a windows user and wants us to play nice with it |
| [19:43:20] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: and mythbackend "runs" on windows, just without any tuners |
| [19:43:21] | kormoc: | silly crippled os blues |
| [19:43:27] | fluxdude_: | ok ok... but can I load mythbackend on windows? |
| [19:43:29] | kormoc: | wagnerrp: I didn't know it worked |
| [19:43:30] | wagnerrp: | which is a wholly unsupported setup |
| [19:43:31] | wagnerrp: | but it should work |
| [19:43:55] | fluxdude_: | i'm not a windows user, i'm a nix admin |
| [19:43:59] | ** fluxdude_ sighs ** | |
| [19:44:24] | kormoc: | and yet you store your video files on a windows box? I would say that makes you a windows user... |
| [19:44:25] | ** kormoc shrugs ** | |
| [19:44:25] | fluxdude_: | i just so happen to live in the real world of heterogenous systems |
| [19:44:41] | fluxdude_: | no i did it because dc++ on linux sucked |
| [19:44:49] | wagnerrp: | and there it is.... |
| [19:44:54] | fluxdude_: | at he time I set that up I wanted that option |
| [19:45:00] | fluxdude_: | as well as torrents etc |
| [19:45:09] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: both of which are forbidden topics in here |
| [19:45:10] | wagnerrp: | so much for this discussion |
| [19:45:13] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: which will get you banned |
| [19:45:16] | gbee: | oops |
| [19:45:31] | fluxdude_: | well, you forced my hand to explain the windows box |
| [19:45:37] | kormoc: | I did no such thing |
| [19:45:49] | fluxdude_: | so please explain to me how you guys have 22TB of storage |
| [19:45:59] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: 11x 2 tb drives in a raid? |
| [19:45:59] | wagnerrp: | software raid on a big linux box |
| [19:46:05] | fluxdude_: | considering ripping even your own paid dvds is against copyright |
| [19:46:07] | GreyFoxx: | He rips his bluray and hddvd's to disk |
| [19:46:20] | GreyFoxx: | fluxdude_: Fair use as long as you own and keep the original |
| [19:46:21] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: fair use allows it |
| [19:46:22] | fluxdude_: | borderline |
| [19:46:35] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: so a law degree now as well eh? |
| [19:46:51] | ]Oscar: | Mythvideo on remote frontend show file list after a very long wait (10 minutes or more). On the BE it's quick as expected. It's using storage groups. How debug it? |
| [19:47:03] | wagnerrp: | regardless of what the MPAA claims, the end user is allowed to rip their own media to whatever format they want for their own use |
| [19:47:15] | wagnerrp: | no one has ever been taken to court over that because they will lose |
| [19:47:18] | [R]: | ]Oscar: what version of myth? |
| [19:47:37] | [R]: | oh... storage groups... 22 |
| [19:47:41] | wagnerrp: | what they have blocked is the sale or distribution of software to allow end users to break decryption |
| [19:47:45] | ** sphery wonders why so many lawyers use MythTV ** | |
| [19:47:49] | ]Oscar: | I've just updated all, nigtly with mythbuntu |
| [19:47:49] | wagnerrp: | which is why mythtv does no such thing |
| [19:48:20] | sphery: | (and, it seems from the disagreements, a lot of not so good lawyers, too) |
| [19:48:23] | fluxdude_: | you need the software to rip though |
| [19:48:28] | fluxdude_: | decss and such |
| [19:48:30] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: if you want to discuss it, you can talk to the EFF, as they're claiming we're in the clear |
| [19:48:40] | fluxdude_: | good |
| [19:48:42] | wagnerrp: | fluxdude_: and mythtv does not distribute such |
| [19:49:01] | gbee: | sphery: I love how people will justify a larger crime with a smaller one, "it's illegal to drop litter, so I thought it was fine to murder my neighbour" |
| [19:49:10] | iamlindoro: | turn off file browse mode, or turn off metadata loading |
| [19:49:17] | sphery: | gbee: heh, yeah |
| [19:49:17] | fluxdude_: | the point is, preaching about p2p seems hypocritical considering it's a major use of myth |
| [19:49:31] | kormoc: | fluxdude_: I already told you, I *will* ban you. don't press your luck |
| [19:49:39] | wagnerrp: | fluxdude_: not by any of the devs, and openly banned in this channel |
| [19:49:50] | ** kormoc preps the /kickban ** | |
| [19:49:59] | sphery: | "I'm paying for the basic-basic satellite package, so I can use softcam to decrypt all the channels legally" |
| [19:50:04] | wagnerrp: | cant exactly stop the users from doing what they want, but you can choose not to aid them in any wy |
| [19:50:17] | GreyFoxx: | fluxdude_: by that logic them windows media player's major use is to play downloaded stuff |
| [19:50:19] | [R]: | sphery: what's wrong with that?</sarcasm> |
| [19:50:19] | GreyFoxx: | It's just a player |
| [19:50:20] | sphery: | (and make it available on 10 tuners even though I only have one card) |
| [19:50:23] | GreyFoxx: | you suply the content |
| [19:50:39] | gbee: | fluxdude_: no it's not, MythTV has no P2P friendly features, we actively reject features considered to only benefit pirates (e.g. auto detection of a video name from standard torrent formats) etc |
| [19:51:33] | fluxdude_: | anyway, this topic has diverged too far, the original point is some stuff runs better on windows and hence it's worth keeping a wintendo box around... |
| [19:52:04] | fluxdude_: | mythtv doesn't run on windows, so I'm out of luck in that case with regards to running a mythbackend to help with the scan timing problem... |
| [19:52:11] | GreyFoxx: | windows exists for 2 reasons in my house. 1 because my wife is afraid to learn a new OS |
| [19:52:11] | wagnerrp: | s/doesn't/does/ |
| [19:52:27] | GreyFoxx: | and 2, my printer has no linux drivers so I have a windows VM acting as a print server |
| [19:52:39] | gbee: | sphery: yeah, I went for an extreme example for drama – but in any of these discussions it always seems to arise, "they won't let me listen to Britney Spears without DRM, so I'll steal it instead" |
| [19:52:58] | ** iamlindoro has already given the probable answer to the "long scan time" issue but really hates repeating himself ** | |
| [19:53:05] | GreyFoxx: | gbee: that's the "teach them a lesson" mentality :) |
| [19:53:11] | sphery: | I actually replaced my printer just because the Linux drivers for it were so bad. Best $100 I ever spent (possibly next to the $100 I spent to replace the scanner for the same reason). |
| [19:53:22] | wagnerrp: | the ONLY reason SG scanning would take a long time is if you have a symlink loop (or otherwise ridiculous mount of directories) or if your network connection frequently drops |
| [19:53:25] | kormoc: | iamlindoro: but that would require reading! |
| [19:53:34] | wagnerrp: | those are the only two possibilities |
| [19:53:39] | iamlindoro: | or if you don't read the tooltips to the options you turn on |
| [19:53:42] | GreyFoxx: | sphery: the printer cost $49, and had built in wifi. Less than I would pay for ink for my old one :) |
| [19:53:49] | gbee: | where did we come to conclusion that MythTV doesn't run on windows? |
| [19:53:58] | wagnerrp: | mythtv has never been supported on an unstable network connection |
| [19:53:59] | gbee: | or maybe I don't care anymore |
| [19:54:01] | iamlindoro: | the ones that say "warning, turning this a $otherFeature* on at the same time can make Mythvideo take ages to load" |
| [19:54:04] | sphery: | GreyFoxx: heh, yeah, there is that issue, too |
| [19:54:07] | kormoc: | gbee: when wagnerrp said it would, he assumed that ment it wouldn't |
| [19:54:18] | sphery: | I was just saying that not needing Windows anymore is great |
| [19:54:18] | fluxdude_: | that's what I asked 5 minutes ago, didn't see an answer |
| [19:54:18] | fluxdude_: | am googling |
| [19:54:19] | iamlindoro: | s/a/and/ |
| [19:55:27] | gbee: | mythtv runs on Windows, linux, Mac OSX and FreeBSD, potentially Solaris but I've not heard much on that front and I doubt we will, since Solaris is an insane choice of OS for a home media system |
| [19:55:49] | iamlindoro: | gbee: We do have more than our share of insane users, however |
| [19:56:05] | iamlindoro: | almost a curiously high number, actually |
| [19:56:20] | kormoc: | as if they're drawn to us, magically |
| [19:56:36] | fluxdude_: | birds of a feather... |
| [19:56:39] | GreyFoxx: | It use to run on OpenBSD, but I haven't used that in a while so it's not worth porting :) |
| [19:56:40] | wagnerrp: | gbee: well so is FreeBSD and OSX for much the same reason |
| [19:56:47] | fluxdude_: | i wonder who the leaders of the flock are ;-) |
| [19:56:55] | ** kormoc eyes clever ** | |
| [19:56:56] | wagnerrp: | (lack of tuner support) |
| [19:58:14] | devinheitmueller: | hell, we have enough trouble making Myth reliably work even with Linux's tuner support. |
| [19:58:23] | gbee: | wagnerrp: agreed, although I can forgive those because they are at least written in part for home use vs server/office environments |
| [19:58:59] | ]Oscar: | I think I let the options to default. now, also deactivating the metadata load, nothing changed. screen goes black, like process is not responding... |
| [19:59:38] | wagnerrp: | ubuntu wouldnt have backported the MV hash stuff on their own would they? |
| [19:59:43] | iamlindoro: | nope |
| [19:59:48] | iamlindoro: | hopefully not, anyway |
| [20:00:21] | gbee: | I think we beat that sort of behaviour out of the packagers |
| [20:00:30] | iamlindoro: | Would be some seriously invasive changes to backport, too |
| [20:00:38] | iamlindoro: | yeah, now we only have to worry about our own devs |
| [20:00:49] | iamlindoro: | whoops, did I type that? |
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| [20:00:55] | SnakesAndStuff: | Hello |
| [20:01:53] | ]Oscar: | any debug options? |
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| [20:02:23] | wagnerrp: | i mean thats the only thing that would legitimately take a lot of time |
| [20:02:31] | wagnerrp: | and only if content kept changing positions |
| [20:03:26] | iamlindoro: | I still look squarely st file browse mode with jacked up network mounts |
| [20:03:31] | iamlindoro: | er s/st/at/ |
| [20:05:35] | ** iamlindoro really wonders why people who choose to track trunk are such loud complainers when it stops working for a day or two here and there ** | |
| [20:05:50] | GreyFoxx: | they should be able to backtrack if needed :) |
| [20:06:19] | iamlindoro: | expecting not so much "development process" as "development GIMME GIMME GIMME NOW" apparently |
| [20:06:28] | Caliban: | gbee: I just wanted to report that I upgraded to the latest kernel today and that didn't fix the propgramme duration issue we were discussing last night. Haupauge doesn't appear to have newer firmware, either. So, it probably is a bug in MythTV. |
| [20:07:19] | stoffel (stoffel!n=quassel@p57B4D7DC.dip.t-dialin.net) has quit (Remote closed the connection) | |
| [20:12:01] | ]Oscar: | I'd like to do a debug process, but I don't know such language, don't know enought about module relation, I dont't hanve a "starting point" to track down what it's doing... I'd like to see a log, as a starting point. without that, I'm alone in the dark... :( |
| [20:12:39] | devinheitmueller: | Caliban: which issue are you talking about? |
| [20:12:44] | ** devinheitmueller goes to the logs.... ** | |
| [20:13:54] | ** wagnerrp needs more memory despirately ** | |
| [20:17:19] | gbee: | devinheitmueller: he's seeing 30 minute recordings with a seektable length of just 25 minutes, the obvious correlation was that it was using the wrong framerate value (NTSC vs PAL) for generating the seektable, this value would be based on whatever was configured for his system |
| [20:17:28] | dustybin: | GreyFoxx: is there a such thing as a asterisk irssi script? |
| [20:17:37] | devinheitmueller: | hmmm. |
| [20:17:56] | GreyFoxx: | noidea |
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| [20:18:07] | GreyFoxx: | don't use irssi |
| [20:18:08] | devinheitmueller: | Is there some default behavior perhaps where MythTV assumes NTSC if the standard is unrecognized? |
| [20:18:10] | gbee: | devinheitmueller: maybe confusing the issue, I seemed to recall Isaac bitching about an API change where the PAL/NTSC string format changed and broke myth |
| [20:18:53] | devinheitmueller: | I haven't poked too much around at the ivtv driver, but pretty much all of those APIs use numeric constants rather than strings. |
| [20:18:54] | wagnerrp: | i really have no need to be running 12 httpd daemons at 20–30MB each |
| [20:19:01] | gbee: | so the fix in 0.22 wouldn't work with his ancient 2.6.22 kernel |
| [20:19:50] | gbee: | devinheitmueller: may have been the values for each constant changed, or it may have been another API entirely, I didn't pay enough attention at the time |
| [20:20:04] | devinheitmueller: | Oh, well if he is running 2.6.22 then who knows. |
| [20:20:19] | gbee: | but it seemed reasonable to suggest he used a more recent kernel and thus driver |
| [20:20:35] | devinheitmueller: | I would have to look at the MythTV code, but I suspect whoever the dev is responsible for that code could track it down pretty fast if he wanted to. |
| [20:21:06] | devinheitmueller: | (since said dev would know where the respective checking code is actually implemented) |
| [20:21:32] | gbee: | even I probably could, if only I could summon the energy to do more than watch TV whilst chatting in IRC |
| [20:23:07] | SnakesAndStuff2 (SnakesAndStuff2!n=mintbox@74.194.225.82) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [20:23:09] | SnakesAndStuff2: | Hello |
| [20:23:25] | SnakesAndStuff2: | what does it mean when dvbscan returns with "Unable to query frontend status"? |
| [20:24:00] | wagnerrp: | it cannot access your tuner card for some reason |
| [20:24:26] | SnakesAndStuff2: | hmmm.. .I have mythtv shut down... |
| [20:24:27] | devinheitmueller: | SnakesAndStuff2: it means your tuner is probably in use by some other application, such as mythtv-backend. |
| [20:24:59] | devinheitmueller: | I'm pretty sure you can run fuser against /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0. |
| [20:25:05] | devinheitmueller: | (to see what process has it open) |
| [20:25:35] | SnakesAndStuff2: | comes back as nothing |
| [20:26:16] | SnakesAndStuff2: | http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1761993 <-- dmesg output |
| [20:26:25] | SnakesAndStuff2: | drivers seem to be installed, no? |
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| [20:27:00] | devinheitmueller: | try running fuser with "-v" |
| [20:27:24] | SnakesAndStuff2: | still no output |
| [20:27:28] | SnakesAndStuff2: | maybe I don't have all of the driver installed? |
| [20:27:41] | devinheitmueller: | driver looks installed to me. |
| [20:28:02] | devinheitmueller: | what args are you passing to dvbscan? |
| [20:28:04] | SnakesAndStuff2: | and I was running dvbscan as root |
| [20:28:39] | SnakesAndStuff2: | mintbox@MintBox /usr/share/dvb/atsc $ dvbscan us-ATSC-center-frequencies-8VSB |
| [20:28:40] | SnakesAndStuff2: | Unable to query frontend status |
| [20:28:40] | devinheitmueller: | Try running dvbscan under strace and see exactly what call failed. That will also give you an actual error code. |
| [20:28:53] | SnakesAndStuff2: | I'm trying to get OTA signal, is that the correct setup? |
| [20:29:00] | devinheitmueller: | I usually don't use dvbscan. |
| [20:29:07] | SnakesAndStuff2: | how do I do that? |
| [20:29:07] | devinheitmueller: | I typically use scan instead. |
| [20:29:18] | devinheitmueller: | strace dvbscan us-ATSC-center-frequencies-8VSB |
| [20:29:19] | SnakesAndStuff2: | how would I run scan? |
| [20:29:34] | devinheitmueller: | scan /usr/share/dvb/atsc/us-ATSC-center-frequencies-8VSB |
| [20:30:14] | gbee: | My Tickets (49 matches) << Bugger |
| [20:31:08] | SnakesAndStuff2: | http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1761999 |
| [20:31:12] | SnakesAndStuff2: | perhaps I'm missing some libraries? |
| [20:31:47] | devinheitmueller: | Interesting. |
| [20:31:48] | SnakesAndStuff2: | weird, scan loads |
| [20:31:56] | devinheitmueller: | Seems like the bug is not coming from within the kernel. |
| [20:32:04] | devinheitmueller: | The driver is not reporting any failures. |
| [20:32:14] | SnakesAndStuff2: | I'm getting a bunch of tuning failed. |
| [20:32:19] | devinheitmueller: | That is expected. |
| [20:32:33] | SnakesAndStuff2: | mintbox@MintBox /usr/share/dvb/atsc $ sudo scan us-ATSC-center-frequencies-8VSB scanning us-ATSC-center-frequencies-8VSB |
| [20:32:34] | SnakesAndStuff2: | using '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0' and '/dev/dvb/adapter0/demux0' |
| [20:32:38] | SnakesAndStuff2: | it looks like it opened it up |
| [20:32:40] | devinheitmueller: | In this context, a tuning failure just means that the tuner is not finding a signal on that frequency – which will occur when doing a scan of the whole spectrum. |
| [20:32:58] | SnakesAndStuff2: | it just found some channels with scan |
| [20:33:07] | devinheitmueller: | Yeah, this looks like a dvbscan thing then. |
| [20:33:13] | devinheitmueller: | s/thing/bug/ |
| [20:33:24] | SnakesAndStuff2: | okay, silly question now.. |
| [20:33:35] | SnakesAndStuff2: | how do I use mplayer or some other device to tune to that to test it and see if it works? |
| [20:34:17] | devinheitmueller: | create the channels.conf file with scan, and then run "azap -r CHANNELNAME" and then in a separate window run "mplayer /dev/dvb/adapter0/dvr0" |
| [20:34:54] | SnakesAndStuff2: | cool... I'm totally new to digital TV |
| [20:35:11] | SnakesAndStuff2: | So I apologize if I have a bunch of newb questions. |
| [20:35:16] | devinheitmueller: | np |
| [20:36:43] | antgel: | SnakesAndStuff2 and devinheitmueller: your long /nicks annoy me. that is all :) |
| [20:37:49] | devinheitmueller: | antgel: I apologize for NOTHING! |
| [20:38:11] | antgel: | for all you know, i'm reading this on a vt100 |
| [20:38:28] | devinheitmueller: | My goal is for my nick to be blindingly obvious who I am, which is more than I can say for "antgel" |
| [20:39:25] | antgel: | pele didn't need a long nick for it to be obvious |
| [20:39:35] | ** antgel awaits the OT police ** | |
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| [20:40:16] | andrewe: | hi, what's the best way to test a dvb-s card before trying it in mythtv? |
| [20:41:38] | antgel: | andrewe: try the dvb-tools e.g. scan |
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| [20:41:46] | SnakesAndStuff2: | status 1f | signal 00fa | snr 00fa | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK <-- weak signal, yes? |
| [20:42:13] | antgel: | SnakesAndStuff2: you can't trust signal strength except relatively on the same card. some drivers treat it weirdly |
| [20:42:23] | andrewe: | antgel: what command should I use? 'scan -c'? |
| [20:42:34] | SnakesAndStuff2: | hmmm... I know I didn't get one station nearby that I really should |
| [20:42:37] | antgel: | SnakesAndStuff2: admittedly i didn't read ^^, but FE_HAS_LOCK is generally a Good Thing |
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| [20:42:47] | SnakesAndStuff2: | anyway to tune to a certain station, and then move the antenna and look at output etc? |
| [20:43:05] | devinheitmueller: | The 2250 represents it's SNR in 0.1dB increments. |
| [20:43:34] | devinheitmueller: | ... hence an SNR of 0x00fa is 25.0dB, which isn't bad if you're doing ATSC. |
| [20:43:43] | andrewe: | antgel: when do I know the card is working? |
| [20:43:56] | antgel: | andrewe: here's a fairly crap wiki page on it (dvbscan = scan) http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Dvbscan |
| [20:43:59] | devinheitmueller: | Sounds like the card *is* working. |
| [20:44:17] | devinheitmueller: | You did the zap, so just open a second window and run mplayer against the dvr0 device. |
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| [20:44:53] | devinheitmueller: | Bear in mind that you need to keep "azap -r" running when you run mplayer. |
| [20:44:59] | antgel: | andrewe: just feed it the relevant file, should be part of the dvb-apps package (at least it is in debian) |
| [20:45:18] | andrewe: | antgel: which file? |
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| [20:45:49] | devinheitmueller: | crap, I got confused because I didn't notice two different threads of conversation from users starting with "an". |
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| [20:46:40] | antgel: | andrewe: the file that contains the relevant frequencies for the satellites you want to scan |
| [20:47:03] | andrewe: | antgel: where can I find those files for Debian? |
| [20:47:23] | antgel: | andrewe: dpkg -L dvb-apps |
| [20:49:48] | andrewe: | antgel: thank you very much! |
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| [21:04:59] | dustybin: | anybody here use mythtv frontend / backend on a centos box? |
| [21:05:44] | test4: | Hello all :) same question than above with a french freebox ?? |
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| [21:06:50] | dustybin: | this looks interesting: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Installing_MythTV_on_RHEL/CentOS |
| [21:07:12] | dustybin: | test4: you forgot to say "thanks in advance" |
| [21:07:21] | JoshBorke: | dustybin: good luck getting working drivers for the video cards |
| [21:07:28] | dustybin: | eeeek |
| [21:07:39] | dustybin: | JoshBorke: its only a fx5200 |
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| [21:07:44] | test4: | thanks in advance.eeeek |
| [21:08:23] | dustybin: | i really want to learn centos, installing mythtv would be great knowledge |
| [21:08:49] | JoshBorke: | it doesn't really fit though because the first step is to install a non-el kernel |
| [21:09:01] | iamlindoro: | CentOS and current Myth don't get along |
| [21:09:08] | dustybin: | :( |
| [21:09:20] | ** dustybin awaits foul abuse ** | |
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| [21:09:28] | JoshBorke: | rhel6 (hopefully this year) and mythtv 0.22 will probably work well |
| [21:09:50] | dustybin: | aye interesting |
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| [21:10:45] | gbee: | in fairness, CentOS is all about using really old versions of everything, a media app tends to follow the latest developments |
| [21:10:47] | dustybin: | i spent the last 2 months learning server 2008, the windows domains is a whole new world what i didnt know existed |
| [21:10:53] | MaverickTech (MaverickTech!n=Maverick@5356ECF3.cable.casema.nl) has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | |
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| [21:11:19] | ** CyberKnet looks around for the rock dustybin has been living under ** | |
| [21:11:19] | JoshBorke: | gbee: stable is a better description :P |
| [21:11:38] | JoshBorke: | dustybin: you won't learn anything from rhel/centos that you wouldn't learn from fedora |
| [21:11:39] | gbee: | so trying to use MythTV with CentOS is like sticking spiny alloys on a horse drawn cart |
| [21:11:52] | gbee: | JoshBorke: pfft |
| [21:12:23] | CyberKnet: | gbee: Can we have the flashy leds on the valve stems that light up as the wheels turn? can we? please? can we please? |
| [21:12:32] | gbee: | server level stability maybe, for home use CentOS is overkill |
| [21:13:03] | JoshBorke: | i run centos on my home router because i don't want to have to reinstall it every year |
| [21:13:16] | ** CyberKnet slaps a NOS setup on gbee's horse drawn cart ** | |
| [21:13:25] | dustybin: | JoshBorke: is your router a power hungry monster |
| [21:13:35] | CyberKnet: | and by that – I mean I gave the horse a NOS "energy" drink. |
| [21:13:45] | JoshBorke: | dustybin: no, it's a 4–5 year old laptop |
| [21:13:49] | dustybin: | aye ok |
| [21:14:08] | JoshBorke: | i wish everything i run could be a laptop. built in monitor+keyboard = win |
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| [21:14:50] | dustybin: | im totally into using less electricity as possible |
| [21:15:09] | dustybin: | silent, power efficient boxes are win |
| [21:15:17] | dustybin: | thats why im saving up for a mac mini |
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| [21:15:31] | JoshBorke: | dustybin: my mythbox is a power hungry monster ;-) |
| [21:15:50] | dustybin: | mine is to, but its a combo and does a whole load of other stuff |
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| [21:16:41] | ramshadow_: | hi guy´s |
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| [21:17:29] | dustybin: | i used to have a old PIII 733 firewall pfsense box + switch + ADSL modem, i ditched it in favour for a all in one low powered netgear box |
| [21:17:41] | CyberKnet: | wait ... did we just infer that a laptop router running centos is power efficient? |
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| [21:17:58] | JoshBorke: | lol |
| [21:19:38] | dustybin: | why bother having a windows 7 desktop and a os x desktop, why not just dual boot a mac mini |
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| [21:23:20] | clever: | CyberKnet: i'm using a 200mhz tower as my router |
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| [21:24:34] | dustybin: | clever: thats not exactly what one would call 'clever' |
| [21:25:06] | dustybin: | it doesnt matter if its 100mhz or 1000mhz, if it sucks power, its rubbish |
| [21:26:24] | test4: | any french using freebox around there ?? merci d'avance .. |
| [21:28:14] | clever: | dustybin: yeah, i need to get around to seeing how much power it actualy takes |
| [21:29:57] | xand: | dustybin: why save up for a mac mini... costs more than you'd save on electricity I bet |
| [21:30:32] | dustybin: | xand: os x is my desktop of choice, i hate glossy screen imacs, and mac pros are too expensive |
| [21:30:42] | xand: | pfft |
| [21:31:02] | xand: | the mini is such a ripoff now |
| [21:31:08] | dustybin: | and hackintosh are too unstable |
| [21:31:34] | dustybin: | xand: show me a ready built pc what is the same size as a mac mini |
| [21:31:43] | xand: | dustybin: what? |
| [21:31:48] | xand: | do you mean "that" |
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| [21:31:57] | xand: | anyway, it's called mini-itx |
| [21:31:59] | xand: | oh dear. |
| [21:32:15] | dustybin: | jeeze whats that |
| [21:32:17] | devinheitmueller: | somebody punt this bot. |
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| [21:32:37] | xand: | mode +R please? |
| [21:32:38] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro | |
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| [21:32:56] | clever: | seems like his net is just as unstable as mine :P |
| [21:33:03] | Wicked: | those same guys have been hitting up large channels on freenode last few weeks |
| [21:33:04] | dustybin: | heh |
| [21:33:05] | iamlindoro: | We're already mode +R |
| [21:33:12] | xand: | iamlindoro: no. |
| [21:33:21] | clever: | Wicked: first time i saw them in here |
| [21:33:26] | Wicked: | yea same |
| [21:33:34] | xand: | #mythtv-users(+cnt) |
| [21:33:43] | Wicked: | but ive seen them in #ubuntu and bunch of other channels |
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| [21:34:30] | Wicked: | maby you can ask a network admin to idle here...they where damn quick in #ubuntu |
| [21:34:30] | cdpuk (cdpuk!n=chris@cdpuk.cdp.me.uk) has quit (Excess Flood) | |
| [21:34:38] | Wicked: | not sure if they came up with a auto bot or something |
| [21:34:43] | reshekel (reshekel!i=fjWvABuC@Doberanala-1-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [21:34:49] | Wicked: | but they where getting klined within 2 seconds |
| [21:36:14] | clever: | Wicked: looks like they added an irc.php to the old popup spamming page |
| [21:36:50] | clever: | though its got too much unescape()'s to read the code easily |
| [21:37:03] | Wicked: | i dont even bother to investigate the links now. |
| [21:37:12] | Wicked: | i know its nothing good ;o |
| [21:37:27] | JoshBorke is now known as JoshBorke`gone | |
| [21:37:28] | clever: | ive seen all the javascript warnings, so i used wget this time |
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| [21:37:36] | Wicked: | ah yea. |
| [21:37:42] | Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!n=iamlindo@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : +R | |
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| [21:37:51] | Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!n=iamlindo@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : +R | |
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| [21:40:22] | TauPan: | hm, why can I select two input groups for each input? |
| [21:40:41] | TauPan: | if I select the same for both, it switches the second to generic automatically |
| [21:40:53] | TauPan: | (having trouble with the terminology because my mythtv is localized) |
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| [21:41:45] | wagnerrp: | good 'ol GNAA |
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| [21:42:08] | clever: | wagnerrp: seems like they upgraded it |
| [21:46:13] | dustybin: | i clicked on the clonebot link.... eeeeek |
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| [21:46:25] | dustybin: | im glad im running os x, would of been worried if i clicked that on windows |
| [21:46:41] | [R]: | why would you have clicked on spam in the first palce |
| [21:46:51] | dustybin: | just interested |
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| [21:47:31] | dustybin: | that isnt spam, that is malware link, be careful |
| [21:47:54] | wagnerrp: | captain obvious |
| [21:48:25] | dustybin: | i have never seen firefox act like that in my life.. |
| [21:48:34] | dustybin: | i need to run some kind of scan just incase |
| [21:49:01] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o gbee | |
| [21:49:15] | gbee: | heh, iamlindoro beat me to it |
| [21:50:01] | gbee: | I disabled +R earlier due to some grumbling, my mistake |
| [21:50:42] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro | |
| [21:50:53] | Mode for #mythtv-users by gbee!n=gbee@cpc1-derb9-0-0-cust213.leic.cable.ntl.com : -o gbee | |
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| [21:57:42] | iamlindoro: | Tekzilla (on Revision3) just solicited viewer opinions on whether they should do a MediaTomb build or a MythTV build in the next few weeks, I expect if they do Myth that we'll get eviscerated re: configuration |
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| [21:58:06] | wagnerrp: | have you tried installing mediatomb? |
| [21:58:12] | iamlindoro: | yes |
| [21:58:13] | wagnerrp: | its all in some obscure text format |
| [21:58:43] | iamlindoro: | well, sorta of, but there's also infinitely fewer moving parts and IMO much simpler to set up (owing mostly to doing far less than we do) |
| [21:59:30] | TauPan: | uhm, hello? |
| [22:01:08] | wagnerrp: | do you understand what input groups are designed for? |
| [22:01:19] | unixSnob: | question for Belgians: is there any way to get a program guide for Belgacom? |
| [22:01:26] | wagnerrp: | they are to be used for something like a hybrid tuner |
| [22:01:35] | wagnerrp: | where you have an analog half, and a digital half of a card |
| [22:01:41] | TauPan: | no... I've read somewhere that I can assign an input group to prevent my devices to record at the same time |
| [22:01:41] | wagnerrp: | that appear as two separate cards in mythtv |
| [22:01:45] | wagnerrp: | but cannot be used at the same time |
| [22:01:48] | TauPan: | yeah |
| [22:01:53] | TauPan: | that's what I've read |
| [22:02:08] | wagnerrp: | generic is just the default setting, it does nothing |
| [22:02:13] | TauPan: | but I wonder why there are *two* of them for each input |
| [22:02:36] | wagnerrp: | say you have a hybrid digital/analog tuner, and a STB |
| [22:02:50] | wagnerrp: | you have your STB connected through firewire, as well as using analog capture through the hybrid card |
| [22:02:57] | TauPan: | STB? |
| [22:03:22] | wagnerrp: | you can only use either firewire or analog capture off the set-top-box at once, but not both simultaneously |
| [22:03:36] | wagnerrp: | you can only use the analog capture, or the digital tuner at once |
| [22:03:50] | wagnerrp: | however you can use both the firewire capture and the digital tuner at the same time |
| [22:03:57] | TauPan: | ah |
| [22:04:04] | TauPan: | ok, thanks |
| [22:04:11] | wagnerrp: | the analog capture device would then have to be in two separate input groups to be scheduled properly |
| [22:06:26] | squidly: | anyone know if there is a cablecard addapter for linux? |
| [22:06:35] | wagnerrp: | never, never, never.... |
| [22:06:37] | iamlindoro: | no, and there is unlikely ever to be |
| [22:06:47] | squidly: | I was told by a comcast tech that they are going to encrypt everything in my area soon |
| [22:07:01] | wagnerrp: | yet not using cablecard |
| [22:07:03] | squidly: | and eliminate analong |
| [22:07:09] | squidly: | joy... |
| [22:07:10] | wagnerrp: | and not everything either |
| [22:07:31] | wagnerrp: | theyre replacing analog with their DTAs, which dont run the full crypto package as a cablecard |
| [22:07:51] | wagnerrp: | they only support something called 'privacy mode', which is rather light encryption using single-des |
| [22:08:40] | squidly: | so anything I can get for myth that will work? |
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| [22:08:52] | wagnerrp: | analog capture off your STB |
| [22:08:55] | squidly: | or will I be stuk getting on of thier DTA? |
| [22:09:06] | wagnerrp: | or digital tuner for your local must-carry channels |
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| [22:09:23] | squidly: | yea I think I may do that.. |
| [22:09:52] | squidly: | this is annoying as all hell |
| [22:10:07] | squidly: | it's like they are trying to eliminate anything like myth and force us to use what they want |
| [22:10:15] | wagnerrp: | complain to your congressman / local fcc rep / with your wallet |
| [22:10:34] | squidly: | wagnerrp: yea I may do that |
| [22:10:54] | squidly: | I would like to get something where I could capture sat direct in to my system |
| [22:11:29] | [R]: | not in the us legally are you gonna |
| [22:11:36] | [R]: | wow... that sounded yoda-like... lol |
| [22:11:43] | wagnerrp: | well there are FTA satellite channels in the US |
| [22:11:47] | [R]: | squidly: i mean... unless you want FTA... but tahts a joke |
| [22:11:50] | wagnerrp: | theyre just not anything you would actually care to record |
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| [22:12:49] | squidly: | yea the main thing I want is to get my news channels |
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| [22:18:10] | squidly: | [R]: who would you say I should move too.. I dont know how well dish works with myth |
| [22:18:34] | [R]: | you have to capture off the stb |
| [22:18:40] | [R]: | thats the only way to capture satellite |
| [22:18:50] | [R]: | same way as it is if you want to capture off of encrypted cable |
| [22:18:51] | squidly: | yea..that is the thing I'm trying to avoide |
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| [22:20:12] | devinheitmueller: | squidly: the cable company wants you to pay a rental fee for a settop box for every TV in your house. If you want the encrypted channels (in HD), then your only option is something like the HD-PVR connected off the back of the settop box. |
| [22:20:42] | squidly: | devinheitmueller: yea I know.. when I move I'm voting with my money |
| [22:20:43] | wagnerrp: | note that even if you could use cablecard devices, the cablecard rental is typically as much as a full STB rental |
| [22:20:51] | wagnerrp: | youre getting shafted either way |
| [22:20:54] | squidly: | wagnerrp: true.. |
| [22:21:15] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: that varies by area. In many areas, a m-card is only $2.00, which is way cheaper than the $9.94 for an HD STB. |
| [22:21:16] | squidly: | anyone figure out a good way to use uverse with mythtv? |
| [22:21:40] | devinheitmueller: | ... so I would argue that you're not getting shafted *quite* as badly. |
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| [22:21:43] | wagnerrp: | oh? i thought most placed charged like $5-$10/mo for a card |
| [22:22:05] | squidly: | the comcast tech said "get a cable card" |
| [22:22:12] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: No. $2.00 is typical. Some charge $2.00 for an m-card, and some charge $2.00 for an s-card (and you need two). |
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| [22:22:42] | devinheitmueller: | squidly: the problem is that not only do you have to "get a cable card", you also need to get either a Tivo or a really expensive TV to put it in. |
| [22:22:56] | devinheitmueller: | (since in terms of televisions, only the extremely high end models have cablecard support) |
| [22:23:22] | squidly: | devinheitmueller: he said to get one for my myhtv box |
| [22:23:28] | devinheitmueller: | Remember the days when you could buy a $30 VCR from Walmart and not have to pay subscription? |
| [22:23:28] | squidly: | I didnt really listen to him |
| [22:23:35] | squidly: | devinheitmueller: yea |
| [22:23:54] | wagnerrp: | yeah, one of the FCC's complaints for calling cablecard a complete failure is that there are less than 10 devices that actually support cablecard and are available for purchasre |
| [22:23:56] | squidly: | I'm actually about to tell my wife to deal with it. I'm not paying for cable tv any more |
| [22:24:09] | wagnerrp: | i think they said 7 |
| [22:24:27] | TauPan: | the very point of the digital tv broadcast system is to screw the customer, is my impression |
| [22:24:46] | squidly: | TauPan: prretty much yea |
| [22:24:51] | [R]: | screw? |
| [22:24:52] | [R]: | huh? |
| [22:26:42] | devinheitmueller: | I actually love digital over the air television. |
| [22:26:45] | squidly: | TauPan: to be honist I would not mind paying for a card that went in to my box for me to get the stuff from the cable |
| [22:26:59] | squidly: | devinheitmueller: yea.. That is about were it's going to |
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| [22:27:31] | devinheitmueller: | I don't think it's unreasonable for the cableco to charge $2.00 for a card, assuming there was something to actually use it in. |
| [22:27:39] | squidly: | devinheitmueller: agreed |
| [22:27:58] | squidly: | I would even pay $10/mo so I can put it in my personal pvr |
| [22:28:12] | TauPan: | well, in europe at least we have a system called CI+ that has great features like: forbid skipping commercials, forbid stopping the stream, etc. if the broadcaster specifies them |
| [22:28:13] | devinheitmueller: | but that ain't gonna happen, so I would suggest cancelling your cable in protest and just move to OTA and a Netflix subscription. |
| [22:28:44] | squidly: | devinheitmueller: yea and stream from the web ;) |
| [22:28:48] | devinheitmueller: | TauPan: there are indeed restrictions, but it is an open standard and *much* better than what we have here. |
| [22:29:15] | squidly: | devinheitmueller: yea at least you can grab then with just about anything (iirc) |
| [22:30:27] | squidly: | hell I would be more willing to pay AT&T more to get their uverse.. at least that is pure iptv |
| [22:30:33] | TauPan: | yes, but the open standard doesn't help you if the cable company specifies they won't cooperate with boxes not sold by them, which kabel deutschland is currently trying to to do, (if my information is correct) |
| [22:31:02] | squidly: | just give me a PCI-E card, with a binary driver.. and I will be happy |
| [22:31:39] | TauPan: | you have to buy their STB (<- hey, new tla I just learned) no cards or hippie stuff like that |
| [22:32:13] | devinheitmueller: | squidly: never gonna happen – even if there were a binary kernel driver, they wouldn't be able to control what your application does with the stream once it's decrypted. |
| [22:32:33] | TauPan: | but I heard some manufacturers are trying to deal with them |
| [22:32:55] | squidly: | devinheitmueller: yea.. and that is the problem.. they want to control what/who/where/how we watch tv |
| [22:33:05] | squidly: | I may have to get my fiancee to deal with no CableTV |
| [22:33:11] | TauPan: | ah, that's a different point... of course they will fail at protecting their asse(t)s |
| [22:33:20] | devinheitmueller: | squidly: yup. Your only option is to cancel and use a competing service like netflix. |
| [22:33:54] | squidly: | devinheitmueller: to bad they dont have something that I can stream diretly from my mythbox |
| [22:34:08] | squidly: | (they have doze, ps3,xbox... but no linux!) |
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| [22:34:44] | devinheitmueller: | nope |
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| [22:36:47] | squidly: | http://www.cetoncorp.com/products.php |
| [22:36:50] | squidly: | interestring |
| [22:36:57] | squidly: | to bad it's windows 7 only from what I can tell |
| [22:37:16] | [R]: | of course its only windows |
| [22:41:56] | devinheitmueller: | squidly: yup. It's going to have the same problems as the HDHR-Cablecard product and any of the others in terms of Linux support. |
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| [22:57:10] | unixSnob: | how do I find out who my cable provider is? |
| [22:57:34] | squidly: | unixSnob: it depends on where you are at |
| [22:58:09] | unixSnob: | there are 4 providers in brussels |
| [22:58:54] | [R]: | you could try looking at who you pay your bill to... |
| [22:59:11] | unixSnob: | it's all inclusive package hotel |
| [22:59:19] | [R]: | then you'll have to talk to the hotel |
| [22:59:40] | [R]: | or you could look at the channel lineup of the 4 providers... and try to figure it out that way |
| [23:01:20] | unixSnob: | once I find out, how do I find out how to get a mythtv program guide? |
| [23:02:20] | [R]: | xmltv has grabbers |
| [23:02:27] | [R]: | if it doesnt have one for your provider, you're kinda screwed |
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| [23:05:03] | Dagmar: | Joy |
| [23:05:10] | Dagmar: | Something stopped working for no apparent reason |
| [23:06:40] | Dagmar: | Lemme try nuking the starting channel setting |
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| [23:09:51] | Dagmar: | Yep. That fixored it. |
| [23:09:53] | unixSnob: | [R]: i don't even have a channel that shows me the channel guide; does that mean it's not public? |
| [23:10:16] | [R]: | that just means you dont have a channel with a guide |
| [23:10:17] | [R]: | it doenst mean anyhting |
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| [23:18:58] | unixSnob: | looks like I might be able to use nxtvepg to extract the program guide from the channels themselves |
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| [23:53:34] | gizmobay: | An hour show, shows 59:53 is this normal? |
| [23:53:43] | [R]: | shows it where |
| [23:54:08] | wagnerrp: | its not uncommon to be not exactly 3600 seconds |
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| [23:54:35] | gizmobay: | when I do a "info", it says 59:53 |
| [23:54:43] | [R]: | "info"? |
| [23:54:44] | [R]: | "it"? |
| [23:54:45] | gizmobay: | while watching the recording |
| [23:54:48] | [R]: | oh... |
| [23:54:57] | [R]: | well it depends on how long the cahnnel changing takes |
| [23:54:57] | [R]: | etc |
| [23:55:13] | [R]: | my channel changing has a nice long sleep in it |
| [23:55:14] | gizmobay: | oh yeah |
| [23:55:23] | gizmobay: | mine too |
| [23:55:40] | [R]: | "we're sorry... all analysts are busy... please hold" |
| [23:55:40] | [R]: | FFS |
| [23:55:42] | gizmobay: | seems like I'm getting some clipped shows |
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| [23:55:56] | [R]: | well speed up your channel changing |
| [23:55:59] | [R]: | or put a padding |
| [23:56:18] | gizmobay: | clipped at the end |
| [23:56:28] | gizmobay: | does the change channel effect the end |
| [23:56:33] | gizmobay: | or just the beggining |
| [23:57:07] | gizmobay: | I did a padding but it bumped some of my shows to my crappy backup tuner |
| [23:59:33] | gizmobay: | oh well it's liveable |
| [23:59:43] | gizmobay: | usually the credits I miss |
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