Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, January 14th, 2010, 00:01 UTC

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[00:23:21]

SnakesAndStuff:

Hello

[00:23:23]

SnakesAndStuff:

I know a lot of things are system specific, but in general would an AMD 64 3700+ be enough to save data from OTA while watching another channel? Or should I stick with a single setup?

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xand:

it certainly would if you have all-digital recording with no transcoding

[00:25:01]

SnakesAndStuff:

Hmmmm.... OTA = all digital... transcoding would be compressing it to save drive space, correct?

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wagnerrp:

digital recordings are nothing more than a stream copy to the disk

[00:25:26]

xand:

I use an old pentium 4

[00:25:36]

wagnerrp:

there is no significant load incurred

[00:25:45]

xand:

hardly any CPU usage for recording

[00:25:52]

wagnerrp:

any pentium class or better probably has the throughput to handle it

[00:26:16]

SnakesAndStuff:

How much drive space per hour are we talking on all digital recording without transcoding?

[00:26:35]

xand:

depends on the bitrate it's broadcast at

[00:26:42]

xand:

maybe 1 or 2GB?

[00:26:42]

wagnerrp:

somewhere between 1–8GB/hr

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[00:26:54]

xand:

is it HD?

[00:27:07]

SnakesAndStuff:

To be 100% honest with you I don't have any OTA reception right now...

[00:27:11]

SnakesAndStuff:

building a box to get it.

[00:27:25]

SnakesAndStuff:

my TV doesn't have a digital tuner... didn't want to buy one... so I decided to build a mythtv box instead.

[00:27:35]

SnakesAndStuff:

have been using xbmc on my old xbox for years for my TV viewing needs.

[00:27:39]

SnakesAndStuff:

getting a bit outdated.

[00:28:01]

SnakesAndStuff:

I know I can get 2 channels here that are in HD

[00:28:18]

wagnerrp:

all the big networks will broadcast in HD

[00:28:45]

wagnerrp:

and will likely result in 6+GB/hr

[00:28:51]

SnakesAndStuff:

I have a 320GB and a 1 TB drive at my disposal, so I guess for a while I could just not transcode anything?

[00:29:07]

wagnerrp:

most users dont bother transcoding

[00:29:21]

wagnerrp:

they just confirm the commercial flag, clip the ads, and call it a day

[00:29:29]

SnakesAndStuff:

Cool.

[00:29:35]

wagnerrp:

youll save ~30% space by clipping the ads from the recording

[00:30:39]

SnakesAndStuff:

So most users use mythbuntu? I'm currently using linux mint on my desktop... still up in the air as to what distro I'm going to use on the mythtv box (have to do a hard drive swap before I set it up, probably going to do some reading tonight etc and try to set it up tomorrow)

[00:31:00]

wagnerrp:

use whatever distro you are comfortable with

[00:31:12]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is a complex program with a sharp learning curve

[00:31:24]

wagnerrp:

no sense making things more complicated by switching distros

[00:31:39]

SnakesAndStuff:

Hauppauge 1229 HVR-2250 is the tuner card I'm going to try...

[00:32:00]

SnakesAndStuff:

I've been using linux since '98.

[00:32:11]

sphery:

and I thought I was in #mythtv-users :)

[00:32:20]

SnakesAndStuff:

From looking at forums, mailing lists etc... a lot of people dead end with MySQL errors and get scared it seems... shouldn't be a big hurdle for me.

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sphery:

you know, you guys should consider making a #mythtv-dev and not inviting me to join it ;)

[00:33:19]

sphery:

oh, well, at least it's pretty much on-topic (even if a bit more verbose than I would have planned)

[00:33:20]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[00:33:29]

SnakesAndStuff:

I don't understand?

[00:33:44]

SnakesAndStuff:

I started in #mythtv and was told to come here as it was a dev channel, and this is a user channel... am I in the wrong place?

[00:34:22]

sphery:

no, I was talking in #mythtv more than I probably should have been

[00:34:25]

sphery:

you're fine--I'm wrong

[00:34:28]

wagnerrp:

guess hes talking about how active #mythtv has been the last couple hours

[00:34:35]

SnakesAndStuff:

Ah.

[00:34:36]

SnakesAndStuff:

ok

[00:34:48]

wagnerrp:

its usually pretty dead

[00:34:56]

sphery:

that's true, too

[00:35:02]

sphery:

people getting ready for the new release!

[00:35:14]

Dagmar:

wat?

[00:35:18]

wagnerrp:

in 6 weeks

[00:35:20]

Dagmar:

You're kidding, right?

[00:35:21]

Dagmar:

Ah

[00:35:29]

sphery:

yeah, but in MythTV time, that's nothing

[00:35:44]

Dagmar:

I was gonna say... I *just* finished freaking looking over my myth-0.22-fixes build and I havent' even gotten out of the house to buy the new bloody TV yet

[00:37:12]

sphery:

As everyone knows, there are several different time scales. There's the Geologic time scale, the Cosmologic time scale, and for the /really/ big periods, there's the MythTV Release time scale

[00:37:38]

wagnerrp:

SnakesAndStuff: if you want to use external content (DVD-rips and such), thats what MythVideo is for

[00:38:21]

wagnerrp:

talk of using external content is perfectly fine

[00:38:39]

SnakesAndStuff:

Okay :D was yelled at once in another channel for it.

[00:38:39]

wagnerrp:

its talk of using external content gotten through less-than-legal means that is banned in this channel

[00:39:08]

SnakesAndStuff:

Yes... and I explained that in the other channel that there is such a thing as external content that is legally obtained (especially depending on where you live)

[00:39:12]

SnakesAndStuff:

and still got yelled at hahaha.

[00:39:20]

SnakesAndStuff:

I guess none of them have home movies etc? :D

[00:50:28]

AndyCap:

SnakesAndStuff: I'm sure that's illegal in some states.

[00:50:51]

SnakesAndStuff:

haha, probably true.

[00:51:05]

SnakesAndStuff:

as you might accidentally video a portion of someone elses copyrighted works in the process.

[00:51:28]

wagnerrp:

i think he was referring to certain 'acts' performed on home movies

[00:51:49]

SnakesAndStuff:

haha, that too.

[00:52:12]

SnakesAndStuff:

Still kinda upset with netflix not supporting linux...

[00:52:23]

SnakesAndStuff:

Anyone here had any luck with hulu/mythtv integration?

[00:52:32]

wagnerrp:

besides, video taping playback of a movie on tv is the MPAA recommended method of capture for fair use

[00:52:52]

AndyCap:

then again, the hustler director of operations is on the frontpage of slashdot talking about the "Market penetration" of 3D televisions, which I frankly did not want to hear about..

[00:53:03]

SnakesAndStuff:

wagnerrp: hahah, I saw a video where they were showing teachers how it was the proper way to do things etc.... and they were all just nodding right along with it.

[00:53:03]

wagnerrp:

under supported distros, you can add a menu entry to open Hulu Desktop

[00:54:17]

wagnerrp:

why is there a stack of phone books on the desk at work? we dont even have a phone

[00:55:39]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: I put them there, I didn't know where else they would go, sorry bout that

[00:56:12]

wagnerrp:

im just amused at how much garbage piles up around here

[00:56:51]

SnakesAndStuff:

Most of you using LIRC to integrate?

[00:56:55]

wagnerrp:

the entrance is lined with old computer boxes, as is the cluster

[00:57:11]

wagnerrp:

weve got like 40 spent rapid-prototype trays laying around

[00:57:19]

wagnerrp:

just strewn about the room

[00:59:01]

Josh____:

Could not find a value in the database for the MythVideo directory for this hostname (coldfire). Please update your <a href="http://coldfire/mythweb/settings/mythweb" . . . gs</a> to point to the correct location.

[00:59:18]

wagnerrp:

so who do i go to to get an IP banned for the recently warned of spam?

[00:59:34]

wagnerrp:

Josh____: you must set up mythvideo on the machine running mythweb

[00:59:54]

wagnerrp:

or otherwise set the necessary value to the proper setting

[01:00:03]

kormoc:

SnakesAndStuff: integrate?

[01:00:08]

Josh____:

I'm looking for it

[01:00:09]

SnakesAndStuff:

errr, I mean for using input

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[01:00:18]

kormoc:

Aye, for remotes, aye

[01:00:19]

SnakesAndStuff:

Or do most setups still use keyboard/mouse?

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kormoc:

the majority use remotes

[01:00:31]

wagnerrp:

Josh____: are you using storage groups for mythvideo?

[01:00:38]

Josh____:

wagnerrp, yes.

[01:00:42]

SnakesAndStuff:

I was going to build a serial port IR receiver, but I see a IR jack on the back of my TV card.... now I'm tempted to look that up and see if I can get that to work.

[01:00:45]

wagnerrp:

then it doesnt matter, it wont work

[01:01:05]

Josh____:

Ahh, that hasnt been implemented in mythweb yet?

[01:01:17]

wagnerrp:

in trunk, yes

[01:01:21]

sphery:

how do you do a line break in stupid Trac?

[01:01:22]

Josh____:

SnakesAndStuff, What kind of TV card?

[01:01:27]

xris:

Josh____: I haven't had a chance to backport that stuff to 0.22-fixes

[01:01:30]

SnakesAndStuff:

Hauppauge, let me get the model number.

[01:01:33]

wagnerrp:

sphery: [[br]]

[01:01:39]

Josh____:

xris, woot!

[01:01:49]

sphery:

wagnerrp: thx

[01:01:56]

wagnerrp:

if you look at the icons above that edit box, theres a a carriage return button

[01:01:58]

Josh____:

SnakesAndStuff, I've read that the hauppauge IR reciever can only recieve certain IR codesets.

[01:02:01]

SnakesAndStuff:

HAUPPAUGE 1229 HVR-2250

[01:02:02]

xris:

you might be able to apply the specific patch from trunk, though.. at work, though so I can't dig up the specific commit number for you

[01:02:11]

SnakesAndStuff:

Josh____: Ah, so probably better off going with a serial port setup?

[01:02:18]

SnakesAndStuff:

More flexible anyway?

[01:02:19]

wagnerrp:

sphery: ^^^^

[01:02:45]

Josh____:

SnakesAndStuff, serial would work, but I dont have personal experience (too expensive to build) – I went with a mceusb2

[01:02:52]

sphery:

ah, a help thing! :)

[01:03:07]

SnakesAndStuff:

mceusb2?

[01:03:09]

wagnerrp:

is there a freenode admin channel?

[01:03:14]

iamlindoro:

#freenode

[01:03:19]

Josh____:

xris, woot! I can dig through comments, now that I know there's a patch.

[01:03:57]

Josh____:

SnakesAndStuff, http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MCE_Remote

[01:04:07]

Josh____:

It's a USB reciever with transmit capabilities.

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[01:04:58]

SnakesAndStuff:

How pricey? B/c I'm looking at building a serial port receiver for about $10?

[01:05:26]

Josh____:

If you can build a serial reciever for $10 USD, go for it. I think I spent about 30 for my reciever.

[01:05:42]

MNichie:

Does anyone know the support status of the hauppauge WinTV-HVR-950Q?

[01:05:56]

MNichie:

I'm getting mixed messages from different sites

[01:06:07]

kormoc:

SnakesAndStuff: $20?

[01:06:09]

SnakesAndStuff:

Speaking of which, from what I could tell the HAUPPAUGE 1229 HVR-2250 is supported, did I read correctly?

[01:06:39]

wagnerrp:

SnakesAndStuff: partially, digital only

[01:06:43]

wagnerrp:

no analog capture/tuning support

[01:07:10]

xris:

Josh____: you can thank the fact that something f'd up my video db and when I restored it I couldn't get the non-storage-group to work, so I upgraded things.

[01:07:14]

SnakesAndStuff:

wagnerrp: Being that I'm just dealing with OTA, I'm fine, correct?

[01:07:29]

xris:

keep in mind that the new code *requires* that you use storage groups, which I think is one of the reasons I didn't backport it.

[01:08:11]

wagnerrp:

yes, ATSC works fine with that card

[01:08:12]

Josh____:

xris, more specifically, "requires you to use SGs on the backend" ? or exclusively SG's on all frontends?

[01:08:29]

SnakesAndStuff:

wagnerrp: Analog not working as it is a newer card I guess?

[01:08:50]

xris:

Josh____: for mythvideo

[01:08:59]

wagnerrp:

xris: makes me not feel so bad about leaving out non-sg mythvideo support in the new bindings

[01:09:00]

xris:

exclusively

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[01:09:16]

xris:

wagnerrp: yeah. we need to make a hard cutover at some point

[01:09:29]

Josh____:

xris, still, sounds good to me.

[01:09:37]

wagnerrp:

plus now its painless for people to do so

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wagnerrp:

a couple minutes spent hashing and theyre done

[01:10:05]

TheGonk:

Quick question-- I'm receiving my remote commands with irw, and I can send with irsend, but how to I tie them together?

[01:10:26]

Dagmar:

Velcro.

[01:10:38]

SnakesAndStuff:

body panel adhesive... that stuff is tough

[01:10:42]

xris:

wagnerrp: yup

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[01:10:48]

TheGonk:

Damn, I've been using white glue

[01:10:56]

Josh____:

Getting network erros on my 10/100 NIC when transmitting and reciving a video stream from my HDhomerun – Does it make sense that network errors could occur from LAN bandwidth saturation?

[01:11:07]

Dagmar:

They shoudln't.

[01:11:16]

wagnerrp:

Josh____: only with cheap hardware and hubs

[01:11:17]

Dagmar:

YOu did try a different NIC didn't you?

[01:11:42]

Josh____:

Dagmar, Different NIC (two spares, actually), different LAN cable, and differnet switch.

[01:12:18]

Dagmar:

Something's frelled there

[01:12:27]

Josh____:

I did some testing, as long as I"m not streaming from the HDHomerun, I get zero errors. I can also stream from the HDhomerun with zero errors as long as I'm not sending a stream to a remote frontend.

[01:12:41]

Josh____:

everything borks when I try to do both simultaneously.

[01:13:14]

Dagmar:

That wouldn't be enough to saturate 100base-T

[01:13:30]

Josh____:

That's what I thought.

[01:14:36]

Josh____:

What if libmythhdhomerun is pulling the entire transport stream from the HDhomerun, rather than the specific program? (if that doesnt make sense, I apologize, I'm just throwing ideas out.)

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wagnerrp:

Josh____: is this cable or OTA?

[01:15:10]

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Josh____:

wagnerrp, Comcast.

[01:15:28]

wagnerrp:

then your entire transport on both tuners totals some 79mbps

[01:15:30]

Josh____:

I've done the diagnostics with hdhomerun, the stream is fine.

[01:15:37]

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[01:15:38]

Josh____:

aha, gotcha.

[01:15:52]

Josh____:

hmm.

[01:15:59]

iamlindoro:

This grabber for Swedish TV is kinda neat-- not a lot of choices, but you can watch the last 48 hours of everything on their network

[01:16:22]

Josh____:

I remember reading a hdhomerun forum post saying that you can't run four transport streams from two hdhomeruns simultaneously on 100mbit.

[01:17:12]

Josh____:

wagnerrp, Dagmar I'm seriously considering buying a brand new gigabit NIC for this box.

[01:17:32]

wagnerrp:

how old is this hardware that it doesnt have one built in?

[01:17:47]

Josh____:

wagnerrp, i does, it's borked. It will only connect at 1Mbit.

[01:17:53]

wagnerrp:

every system ive had for the last 6 years has had onboard gigabit

[01:17:54]

kormoc:

8086

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[01:18:11]

akston:

when i change channels on during livetv, mythtv changes the channel on my tuner, not my STB. any ideas?

[01:18:34]

Josh____:

akston, fix your mythtv-setup configuration.

[01:18:35]

wagnerrp:

akston: did you give mythtv a channel changer script?

[01:19:05]

wagnerrp:

akston: why are you capturing over RF rather than svideo or composite?

[01:19:10]

akston:

well, that part kind of confuses me. i can define a channel changer script on the backend, but i'm running lirc on the frontend. is that wrong?

[01:19:33]

wagnerrp:

your backend does the recording, so your backend manages your ir blaster

[01:19:54]

Josh____:

akston, lirc on the frontend tells the bakcend "I want to change channels" – the backend then decides what channel and uses it's channel changer script to interact with the cable box.

[01:22:46]

akston:

Josh____: so essentially i need lirc running on both machines so the backend can use irsend?

[01:23:29]

Josh____:

akston, Unless your box has firewire capability, Correct. And an infrared transmitter hardware.

[01:23:42]

akston:

Josh____: ah, ok. thanks much.

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Josh____:

Just bought a new Intel gigabit NIC.

[01:35:37]

Josh____:

and throw all these spare NICs away

[01:43:24]

wagnerrp:

i just got shocked through my headphones

[01:45:11]

sphery:

my right ear on my headphones doesn't work. :(

[01:45:35]

mag0o:

happens to me all day at work, when i roll around in the chair

[01:45:55]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: swap them and make sure you didn't go deaf in your right ear all of the sudden...

[01:45:56]

thefRont:

you should be working instead of sleeping :P

[01:46:45]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: good idea--I hadn't thought to test that

[01:46:53]

** J-e-f-f-A laughs. ;-) **

[01:46:56]

sphery:

probably not good enough to simply wear them backwards, right

[01:47:04]

sphery:

need to actually remove and reconnect them, right?

[01:47:43]

sphery:

funny part is that removing and reconnecting would almost definitely fix them (as I'm sure it's just a broken connection--they are many years old, now)

[01:47:55]

beata:

is there a way to set a padding for recording per channel?

[01:48:22]

wagnerrp:

no

[01:48:25]

sphery:

beata: nope, you can set a start early per recording rule

[01:48:49]

beata:

hm thought i could save some time, thanks

[01:48:55]

sphery:

beata: you can create custom recording rules that specify channel /and/ title and give them different start early depending on channel

[01:49:02]

sphery:

what's the issue?

[01:49:20]

beata:

just on one channel it seems shows starts 2mins or so early

[01:49:33]

sphery:

sounds like the real problem is your listings aren't accurate... where are they from?

[01:49:39]

beata:

sd

[01:49:48]

sphery:

Schedules Direct? If so, you can report a listings issue

[01:49:54]

beata:

yea

[01:50:05]

beata:

il have to double check and look into it

[01:50:10]

sphery:

then again, it may be a clock issue at the broadcaster, too :)

[01:50:22]

sphery:

especially if it's a small local broadcaster

[01:50:34]

sphery:

(at which point you could offer them your services hooking up ntp)

[01:50:42]

J-e-f-f-A:

eek... seeing many messages while my HDHR is recording tonight... "frame CRC mismatch" "Incomplete frame" "invalid frame size"... but one consistency... "RunTS(): data_length = 1316 remainder = 188",with 1316 switching between 1316, 2632, 3948 and 5264...

[01:50:55]

beata:

thanks sphery

[01:51:51]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: I had my recording problems Sunday and Monday. Lost 4 recordings--only one of which is a disappointment to miss.

[01:52:01]

sphery:

Lucky capture card failure

[01:52:14]

sphery:

(as I still got all of Chuck and Heroes)

[01:52:58]

** J-e-f-f-A starts a frontend to see if these in-progress recordings are hosed or ok... **

[01:54:16]

J-e-f-f-A:

Idol seems to be fine – my Son will be happy about that.

[01:54:37]

iamlindoro:

suuure, your "son"

[01:54:59]

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[01:55:12]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: Hehe... He's an Idol freak... I do watch it, but not religously like him...

[01:55:31]

** iamlindoro forgets what it's like to *watch* TV with MythTV **

[01:56:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

Humm... those errors are from channel 62.1 – "Retro TV"... which hasn't come in that well anyways... /me checks tvfool.com to see which way that tower is...

[01:56:46]

** J-e-f-f-A too ... ;-) I don't hardly ever watch any 'Live' TV anymore. It annoys me to be over someone's house and have to sit through commercials, or there's nothing good on TV... **

[01:56:55]

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[01:57:43]

sphery:

Retro TV... Kind of like the Retro Radio that Sayid and Hurley tuned in...

[01:58:27]

Wicked:

i kinda went full circle with commercials..when i 1st started using myth..i loved not havint to watch commercials and auto skipped them...but i kinda lost track of new movies/tv shows coming out..cuz i never saw the commercials for them.

[01:58:43]

wagnerrp:

i dont get it, i have to be logged in as Administrator to see an ext2 mount

[01:58:49]

Wicked:

so now i flag them and tend to ff them instead of skipping them

[02:01:29]

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[02:03:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

strange... this transmitter is in exactly the same direction as the other channels I get perfectly... Although it does say the path is "1Edge"... humm...

[02:03:50]

wagnerrp:

reading an article about the earthquake

[02:04:08]

wagnerrp:

'He said that so far, 10 bodies have been pulled from the hotels rubble, with fewer than five dead.'

[02:04:23]

wagnerrp:

ive never heard someone refer to a survivor as a 'body'

[02:05:09]

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[02:05:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Yeah, no kidding. Reminds me of the joke that asks "If a plane crashes on the US/Canadian border, where do they bury the survivors?"

[02:12:45]

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[02:33:05]

wagnerrp:

ugh... what is it with retarded people and their fanless systems?

[02:33:42]

[R]:

what is it with retarded people and XYZ?

[02:33:43]

[R]:

lol

[02:34:01]

wagnerrp:

someone posts links to a company who does it *properly*,moving the heatsink outside the case (or integrated into the case)

[02:34:35]

wagnerrp:

and then people spring up with their own FAILED personal experiences of just removing the fan from their machines and watching them burn up

[02:35:20]

wagnerrp:

people just dont understand airflow

[02:35:58]

wagnerrp:

you can stuff the biggest heatsink you can find into something, but if you subsequently cover it with a box, its not going to do a damn bit of good

[02:36:36]

[R]:

lol

[02:36:51]

wagnerrp:

that and people wanting to run mythtv in a VM... my two personal pet peeves

[02:36:56]

[R]:

lol

[02:37:07]

[R]:

i didn't notice if you replied to that guy yesterday

[02:37:26]

wagnerrp:

no, i just decided to avoid it and retain my sanity

[02:37:38]

[R]:

haha

[02:38:37]

sphery:

wagnerrp: now that's bold--not just "you want a different channel", but "you probably shouldn't /be in/ this channel" :)

[02:39:38]

wagnerrp:

yeah, could have used different wording

[02:40:21]

sphery:

it's fine--the point came across and it really didn't seem mean

[02:40:23]

sphery:

just funny

[02:45:21]

wagnerrp:

ugh... im going home

[02:45:41]

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[02:45:54]

** J-e-f-f-A is already home... ;-) **

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[02:47:41]

iamlindoro:

Gah. my least favorite phrase on the mailing list? "Am I missing something?"

[02:47:51]

iamlindoro:

because it's sooooo damn snide, and the answer is usually "YES"

[02:47:56]

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[02:48:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

Yeah, "a clue" ;-)

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[02:58:35]

newbie004:

hi, I'm getting an error that I cannot connect to the database, yet I can though the command line.. I'm starting to suspect an ownership issue. Any ideas?

[03:00:23]

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[03:00:42]

gizmobay:

newbie004, a remote frontend or on the same machine as the backend?

[03:00:51]

newbie004:

gizmobay: same machine

[03:00:58]

newbie004:

ip is localhost

[03:01:22]

newbie004:

there is a mythtv linux user with a different password than the mythtv database user

[03:01:36]

J-e-f-f-A:

iirc, IP still needs to be numeric in mythtv...

[03:02:16]

newbie004:

I didn't set it,, I'll check to see what it is

[03:02:26]

newbie004:

I didn't change it I mean

[03:02:43]

Dagmar:

Connections to the database is not affected by ownership in any possible way

[03:02:52]

newbie004:

yeah it's 127.0.0.1

[03:02:54]

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[03:03:28]

newbie004:

I'm running mythfrontend as root

[03:03:32]

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[03:03:53]

newbie004:

not mythtv,, I assume it doesn't matter, however my mysql.log file is owned by mythtv which I find curious

[03:04:04]

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[03:04:16]

J-e-f-f-A:

So... is this a new issue, or something that just started to happen?

[03:04:26]

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[03:04:33]

newbie004:

I installed it and successully used it yesterday

[03:04:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

er... is this a new 'install' I meant to ask...

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[03:05:09]

newbie004:

today I had an issue that mysqld wouldn't start or stop, so I killed it and started it back up

[03:05:12]

Dagmar:

mysql doesn't make a "mysql.log" file in a normal configuration

[03:05:37]

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[03:05:52]

newbie004:

I noticed that the log file was owned by a mythtv user, I find that very strange so I'm wondering if there is some sort of ownership issue

[03:06:08]

Dagmar:

No.

[03:06:10]

Dagmar:

Again...

[03:06:24]

Dagmar:

"Ownership" has NOTHING to do with whether or not something can connect to the database.

[03:06:26]

newbie004:

initally I did not create a mythtv user,, I couldn't start the mythbackend, so I created the user and everything was working

[03:06:52]

Dagmar:

If networking is not enabled, and it has no need to be in a single-host configuration, connections to mysqld happen over a unix domain socket

[03:06:52]

gizmobay:

Your db has a user say mythtv and a password. You enter this into myth and myth checks this

[03:07:27]

Dagmar:

You need to run mythtv-setup again, as the user you intend to run the frontend as, and tell it what username and password it needs to be using to access the database

[03:07:39]

newbie004:

I did create a database user (before installing mythtv) and I configured that during the setup

[03:07:43]

Dagmar:

The username will my 'mythtv' and the password will be whatever password you set for that mysqld user

[03:08:00]

Dagmar:

Of course, if you've really been at this for twenty years it should pose no problems at all

[03:08:07]

newbie004:

I can log in to mysql as that user/password

[03:08:12]

newbie004:

the error I get is..

[03:08:16]

Dagmar:

The username will my 'mythtv' and the password will be whatever password you set for that mysqld user

[03:08:23]

Dagmar:

You need to run mythtv-setup again, as the user you intend to run the frontend as, and tell it what username and password it needs to be using to access the database

[03:08:55]

newbie004:

" Connection to master server timed out"

[03:09:22]

newbie004:

" Either the server is down or the master server settings"

[03:09:34]

newbie004:

" in mythtv-settings does not contain the proper IP address"

[03:09:37]

Dagmar:

You need to run mythtv-setup again, as the user you intend to run the frontend as, and tell it what username and password it needs to be using to access the database

[03:10:03]

Dagmar:

Unless you somehow managed to screw up localhost/127.0.0.1, the issue is the password

[03:10:11]

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[03:11:16]

Dagmar:

If you doubt this, look in /root/.mythtv/mysql.txt

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[03:11:36]

Dagmar:

If the file does not contain the proper username and password, the frontend will never be able to connect.

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[03:41:20]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, Redirects fixed in RSS subscription manager, r23130

[03:41:34]

iamlindoro:

Hulu working now with the "official" URLs

[03:43:03]

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[03:43:46]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: cool... appreciate it

[03:44:51]

iamlindoro:

np, needed to be done, so worth doing

[03:45:21]

iamlindoro:

really do wish they had an API :(

[03:46:01]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, FWIW Vimeo tends to have some of the most artistic content

[03:46:21]

iamlindoro:

some of which is really beautiful to watch

[03:50:59]

mag0o:

saw a grand canyon hd shoot on there the other day

[03:51:02]

mag0o:

was nice

[03:52:10]

iamlindoro:

Heh, I'm totally transfixed by this little grabber for Swedish TV

[03:52:14]

iamlindoro:

(which isn't included yet)

[03:52:37]

iamlindoro:

not because the content is all that interesting, but because their national Tv service (BBC like) is so dang *open*

[03:53:00]

iamlindoro:

the grabber allows you to view any program they played in the last 48 hours, a bunch of random news clips, and search their entire news archive

[03:53:54]

iamlindoro:

Just imagine if you could get that same content for somebody stateside-- even if it had commercials

[03:57:42]

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[04:06:04]

mag0o:

ha

[04:06:59]

wagnerrp:

i had a recording fail tonight, so i go down into the basement to figure out why

[04:07:18]

wagnerrp:

turns out its hard to record when your HDHR is not plugged into the network

[04:07:31]

kormoc:

Giant networking rats?

[04:08:16]

wagnerrp:

yeah, ones that installed a new network switch this morning, and forgot to plug it back in

[04:08:43]

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[04:11:54]

Captain_Murdoch:

anyone know if there is a wiki page or something detailing how to get flash installed so it can be used in mythbrowser?

[04:13:42]

wagnerrp:

Captain_Murdoch: you just install it for firefox, and it should work

[04:13:58]

Captain_Murdoch:

ok, thanks.

[04:14:05]

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[04:14:13]

Captain_Murdoch:

thought there were some hoops. :)

[04:15:30]

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[04:16:14]

wagnerrp:

well im stating that as someone who's not actually done it themselves

[04:16:51]

iamlindoro:

In theory a systemwide install of Flash *should* work in MythBrowser

[04:17:09]

Captain_Murdoch:

gotta install firefox first in this dev VM.

[04:17:52]

iamlindoro:

mine appears to have ended up here: /usr/lib/flashplugin-installer/libflashplayer.so

[04:17:54]

mag0o:

anyone see that new java based flash thing?

[04:18:36]

mag0o:

http://github.com/tobeytailor/gordon

[04:18:46]

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[04:19:08]

iamlindoro:

mag0o, You think a lot of us to link us to the code instead of descriptive info

[04:19:14]

** iamlindoro sets to compiling it with his brain **

[04:19:39]

mag0o:

hehe, that *was* the descriptive info

[04:20:17]

mag0o:

or better yet http://github.com/tobeytailor/gordon/blob/master/README :)

[04:20:33]

mag0o:

supposedly going to be the thing that brings flash to the iphone

[04:21:19]

wagnerrp:

i need to update my machines

[04:21:34]

wagnerrp:

seems one of them is still back with that bug where it would never exit playback

[04:21:58]

wagnerrp:

just sit there at 'please waiting' indefinately

[04:23:10]

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[04:24:02]

wagnerrp:

plus apparently i dont have the memory for fusefs

[04:24:28]

wagnerrp:

my iscsi daemon kept inexplicably failing, until i unmounted three fusefs mounts

[04:24:45]

wagnerrp:

which managed to free up some 800MB of memory

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[04:30:58]

essjayess:

this is probably a stupid question but, does mythtv interface in anyway with any cable boxes or satellite boxes?

[04:31:09]

wagnerrp:

not exactly

[04:31:14]

wagnerrp:

mythtv supports external channel changer scripts

[04:31:24]

essjayess:

ahh

[04:31:42]

essjayess:

it there a wiki article or post that I could read regarding this?

[04:31:43]

wagnerrp:

which can do whatever you want, including controlling STBs over IR, firewire, or serial

[04:32:08]

essjayess:

I wasn't sure what to search for

[04:32:16]

wagnerrp:

when you set up your tuner, theres just a single line to supply the script

[04:32:26]

wagnerrp:

nothing to set up outside of that

[04:32:39]

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[04:33:44]

gizmobay:

what kind of box do you have?

[04:34:36]

essjayess:

heh, none yet, it was just a hypothetical question since I'm kind of planning everything out

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[04:36:41]

gizmobay:

I use an IR blaster. Not real reliable though

[04:37:10]

[R]:

i'm so happy i got my firewire working

[04:37:29]

gizmobay:

I don't have a firewire port

[04:37:39]

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[04:38:12]

essjayess:

so I could have mythtv interface with my cable box and change the channel when I wanted to dvr something?

[04:38:14]

[R]:

i'd tried to get it working on a couple occations

[04:38:17]

[R]:

turned out my cable was bad

[04:38:24]

[R]:

so i got a new one... victory was mine

[04:38:37]

[R]:

essjayess: either firewire (if its enabled) or ir

[04:38:46]

gizmobay:

yes, firewire or ir

[04:38:57]

gizmobay:

firewire is the best

[04:39:01]

kormoc:

or serial (if your device support it)

[04:39:11]

wagnerrp:

dont expect much new to

[04:39:21]

essjayess:

and there are scripts available to support different boxes?

[04:39:31]

wagnerrp:

not to mention you will likely need a usb-serial adapter, or serial card to get serial on a PC anyway

[04:39:44]

kormoc:

with IR, you can just train lirc typically

[04:39:55]

kormoc:

firewire has a standard that most devices seem to follow

[04:39:58]

wagnerrp:

essjayess: there are a couple firewire programs that ship (unsupported) with mythtv

[04:40:19]

wagnerrp:

and then theres IR signal sets you can find online for various STBs

[04:40:51]

essjayess:

nice. I figured this would have been completely impossible.

[04:42:16]

gizmobay:

what's an rf bypass on a cable box?

[04:42:47]

wagnerrp:

something where the cable signal goes through unaltered when the STB is off

[04:43:07]

wagnerrp:

similar to the old 'tv/video' button for VCRs

[04:43:27]

gizmobay:

okay, thanks

[04:43:28]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: looks like the vimeo_data.pyc file doesn't get installed but I see it in svn

[04:44:08]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: had to install python_pycurl for vimeo

[04:44:28]

elmojo:

in case you wanted to add it to the prerequisites

[04:44:34]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, It's in SVN because you svn up'd between when I added the plugin and added the file

[04:45:01]

wagnerrp:

curl isnt part of a default python installation?

[04:46:02]

wagnerrp:

seems not...

[04:46:04]

elmojo:

I installed mythbuntu 9.10 on this laptop and no it wasn't installed by default

[04:46:22]

iamlindoro:

added, thanks

[04:47:16]

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[04:50:26]

wagnerrp:

yeah, pycurl is 3rd party, as opposed to the built in urllib

[04:50:41]

wagnerrp:

i guess RDV needed to fill POST data for some sites or something

[04:50:59]

wagnerrp:

urllib is rather limited in its capabilities

[05:05:43]

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[06:00:54]

centhurion:

yo, wtf

[06:01:11]

centhurion:

are those late shows NOT funny on purpose?

[06:05:07]

centhurion:

I wish I was in another country to be more motivated to set this up

[06:05:30]

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[06:05:47]

Dagmar:

Oh you're watching Colin Farrel

[06:05:55]

Dagmar:

It's _supposed_ to be funny.

[06:06:12]

Dagmar:

I think it requires more cough syrup than I'm willing to ingest all at once tho

[06:07:57]

centhurion:

oh well, I'll wait til I can get some better content.

[06:08:00]

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[06:08:17]

centhurion:

by the way, HD channels won't work on s-video out?

[06:08:34]

wagnerrp:

s-video is not high definition

[06:08:52]

wagnerrp:

you can play those channels through s-video, but it will still only be 480i

[06:08:57]

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[06:09:13]

centhurion:

so any ways to get HD onto mythtv?

[06:09:27]

Dagmar:

Yes.

[06:09:29]

wagnerrp:

digital tuners, firewire capture, or a HDPVR

[06:09:43]

centhurion:

not just the free channels

[06:09:48]

centhurion:

I do have a digital channel.

[06:09:52]

wagnerrp:

firewire or a hdpvr

[06:10:13]

wagnerrp:

well... a hdpvr will get you everthing your STB can output

[06:10:24]

wagnerrp:

a digital tuner and firewire capture is hit-or-miss

[06:10:33]

wagnerrp:

for getting pay channels

[06:10:55]

Dagmar:

I got the TV. Hadda take it out of the box and put it in the back seat

[06:15:04]

** wagnerrp waits for the rest of the story **

[06:19:44]

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[06:20:36]

centhurion:

hey, plasma 52inch have drop insanely. is it worth getting one of those?

[06:20:50]

centhurion:

52"

[06:21:11]

centhurion:

I am not a big tv guy, i'd be more than happy with a psp mythtv front end.

[06:21:33]

[R]:

plasmas kinda crappy

[06:21:37]

[R]:

most people hate it

[06:24:17]

centhurion:

even ppl who own them?

[06:24:35]

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[06:24:37]

[R]:

this guy i work with has one and hates it

[06:24:44]

centhurion:

well in general lcd and plasma have had a drastic drop.

[06:25:42]

[R]:

i know

[06:25:44]

[R]:

pisses me off

[06:25:47]

centhurion:

that's ONE person

[06:25:53]

centhurion:

ha ha!

[06:26:00]

[R]:

i paid like $900 for my 42"

[06:27:25]

centhurion:

plasma or lcd?

[06:28:05]

[R]:

lcd

[06:29:17]

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[06:30:12]

Dagmar:

Shirik: Dude, it's college. "Fees" are mandatory. Doesn't really matter what they're for anymore. They know you'll pay 'em anyway

[06:32:50]

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[07:12:49]

k_ross:

grrr. echo "key Ctrl+F2" | telnet localhost 6546 causes mythfrontend from trunk to crash. it worked in .22-fixes

[07:13:12]

k_ross:

good thing i learned about "expect" a few weeks ago :)

[07:13:14]

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[07:14:25]

k_ross:

doing it with a proper expect script, and sending "exit" after i get an OK from the mythfrontend, let's it be happy

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[07:43:20]

justinh:

heh just heard an engineer here at work curse "why do we sell products we don't even ****ing make yet?". I said "easy.. MARKETING". He was not amused

[07:50:50]

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[07:55:55]

justinh:

arghhh wtf is wrong with my backend box? Every now & then it gets hideously slow. Trying to find out what it is that clogs it up is tricky when even a ps -ef |grep *something* takes 30 seconds to return is annoying

[07:57:42]

clever:

justinh: 'free -m'

[07:58:41]

justinh:

surprise surprise. stopped mythbackend & suddenly the machine is full of life again

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[08:05:26]

justinh:

maybe I really need to pull my finger out & put the new backend into service. And finish concept to a point where it's usable AND upgrade to trunk

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[08:24:38]

grumpyrj:

erm so I have tv_grab_nz-py that grabs programme info for New Zealand and puts it out to stdout. Can someone point me in a direction for how one gets this into mythtv program listings?

[08:25:56]

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[08:27:35]

justinh:

you should set it as the grabber to use in mythtv-setup. that's generally how it goes if it's an official xmltv app

[08:27:39]

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[08:28:14]

grumpyrj:

thanks. will see if I can find that... mythtv is quite overwhelming at first glance.

[08:28:34]

justinh:

no it isn't, not if you read the docs first :)

[08:28:44]

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[08:29:04]

justinh:

I mean OK it's no 'double click to install' app but...

[08:29:27]

ivor:

mag0o: java != javascript. :) but yes pretty cool.

[08:29:36]

grumpyrj:

ok... docs you say...

[08:30:02]

justinh:

yes. on the website

[08:30:18]

justinh:

and there are a number of articles relating to xmltv configuration in the wiki

[08:30:40]

grumpyrj:

ok. thanks. any hint which main menu its under in mythtv-setup?

[08:31:05]

justinh:

you know how mythtv-setup has all those numbered items?

[08:31:14]

grumpyrj:

yep

[08:31:19]

justinh:

the implication is you enter each one in turn until they've all been done

[08:31:24]

grumpyrj:

I don't see anythig about a grebber

[08:31:27]

grumpyrj:

grabber

[08:31:42]

grumpyrj:

yeah, have done so

[08:31:52]

justinh:

with your eyes shut?!

[08:31:57]

grumpyrj:

I must have missed it.

[08:32:07]

grumpyrj:

umm.. thanks for that.

[08:32:08]

justinh:

read the docs. Please

[08:32:17]

grumpyrj:

thanks for you help

[08:32:49]

grumpyrj:

All I asked is whihc menu it was under... sheesh

[08:34:07]

justinh:

there are only a handful of items to choose from

[08:34:41]

justinh:

it's rather unhelpfully called 'video sources'

[08:34:46]

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[08:34:51]

grumpyrj:

Ah. Thanks.

[08:35:04]

Speedy2:

Hey all. Can commflag use VDPAU to do the video decoding and the CPU for frame processing?

[08:35:42]

justinh:

Speedy2: NO

[08:35:55]

Speedy2:

It will use CPU power to do both, eh?

[08:35:57]

justinh:

there's not yet any means to get decoded video out of theloop

[08:36:19]

justinh:

myers

[08:36:20]

Speedy2:

Any thoughts on using the GPU to do the video processing?

[08:36:50]

justinh:

once there's a means of getting decoded video out of the GPU & into memory, sure

[08:37:21]

Speedy2:

Does nVidia plan on supporting this feature? (pulling video frames from the video card)

[08:37:27]

justinh:

it'll no doubt mean you can't use the GPU to decode video playback though

[08:37:36]

justinh:

no idea.ask them

[08:37:46]

justinh:

or ask on their forums :)

[08:37:48]

Speedy2:

Yeah, at night if I'm sleeping, the GPU is free for use.

[08:37:54]

Speedy2:

Ok, just curious if this was on anyone's radar.

[08:38:27]

justinh:

hardly use commflagging myself. not much point when all the breaks are 4 mins give or take a second

[08:38:40]

Speedy2:

I loathe commercials.

[08:38:47]

justinh:

not that it even works in the UK much

[08:38:52]

Speedy2:

:/

[08:39:08]

justinh:

Speedy2: funny, on our commercial channels they're often the best part :D

[08:39:14]

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[08:39:14]

Speedy2:

When I had myth working, commflag worked great on "modern" TV shows, it just faltered on old stuff like M*A*S*H

[08:39:44]

justinh:

the latest Renault Twingo ads are funny, e.g.

[08:39:55]

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[08:40:30]

justinh:

but generally one right arrow invocation skips the whole break. then I get to hear about good adverts from friends & look em up on youtube :-)

[08:41:33]

Speedy2:

I want to get myth up and going again

[08:41:47]

Speedy2:

The braindead boxes I'm using are killing me with their stupidity.

[08:42:31]

justinh:

ah. Propriatary DVRs huh?

[08:42:37]

Speedy2:

Yup.

[08:42:50]

Speedy2:

I keep telling myself "myth was so much better".

[08:43:12]

Speedy2:

Now that VDPAU is on the scene, myth isn't doing the video decoding, so the glitches and such should be low.

[08:43:19]

Speedy2:

LiveTV might actually work =)

[08:43:21]

justinh:

you think?!

[08:43:40]

justinh:

if anything software decoding is better than hardware at dealing with junk streams

[08:43:57]

Speedy2:

Maybe. But myth seemed to have all sorts of weird playback issues, things not being in sync, etc.

[08:44:08]

Speedy2:

On LiveTV really, not DVR'd content IIRC

[08:44:12]

justinh:

VDPAU is NOT the answer to all of anybody's problems

[08:44:20]

justinh:

live tv is all recorded too

[08:44:29]

Speedy2:

Right

[08:44:41]

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[08:45:20]

justinh:

FWIW, the amount of people who whine about mythtv being unreliable or sucky, then going to a commercial box are just fooling themselves. standalone DVRs are not intrinsically better by any stretch of the imagination

[08:46:00]

Speedy2:

There are a few things they do more reliably (they have to) but for anything more than basic features, they suck

[08:46:09]

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[08:46:10]

Speedy2:

In my case the myth setup came down since I moved and didn't have time to get it all going again

[08:46:11]

justinh:

I wouldn't go that far

[08:46:26]

Speedy2:

LiveTV was always problematic for me. The front-end would crash sometimes

[08:46:32]

justinh:

I have way less problems with mythtv than my friends who use Sky+

[08:46:43]

Speedy2:

The cable STBs (for instance) go through a lot of testing. They have a SHIT UI, but they are tested.

[08:46:49]

justinh:

the lesson there is not to use livetv like ever

[08:47:10]

Speedy2:

That's a solution, but sadly that problem shouldn't exist. I'm not complaining though.

[08:47:41]

justinh:

and problems that go unreported unsurprisingly go unfixed :D

[08:48:07]

Speedy2:

Trust me, I think it's been reported on by a lot of people. I wasn't the first to see it. But, I also didn't offer a solution to debug it.

[08:48:25]

justinh:

he who doesn't report cannot complain ;-)

[08:48:41]

justinh:

it'slikely been fixed by now then :-)

[08:48:52]

Speedy2:

Yeah I'll find out one of these days :)

[08:49:55]

justinh:

the only real problems I've ever ran into were on my old frontend hardware -the epia m10k based box. It would really struggle to play some recordings for an inexplicable reason

[08:50:14]

Speedy2:

What FE do you use now?

[08:50:17]

justinh:

since binnning it we generally don't have many issues.

[08:50:41]

justinh:

core2 duo mobile on an AOpen motherboard. Onboard intel video

[08:50:52]

Speedy2:

The ION stuff is really brilliant for FEs. Sub-300 is amazing for full H.264 support

[08:51:05]

justinh:

it's not perfect. sometimes the NIC doesn't start up on powerup from standby

[08:51:05]

Speedy2:

Do you do any H.264 stuff?

[08:51:12]

justinh:

nah. zero point

[08:51:36]

justinh:

not ready to buy into HD yet for several reasons

[08:51:52]

justinh:

not least of which, bugger all shows I watch are available in HD

[08:52:02]

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[08:52:05]

Speedy2:

justinh: The ASIX based USB Ethernet adapters BTW work really well under Linux, if you want an el-cheapo slution.

[08:52:29]

justinh:

that & I've yet to see an affordable TV I really like the quality of

[08:53:50]

justinh:

I paid over £800 for my current 32" CRT. The same money even now doesn't get you much picture Q

[08:54:01]

Speedy2:

I got an LCD TV for a song so I'm into HD now

[08:54:23]

justinh:

the main thing is, SDTV looks incredibly awfulon so many 'HD ready' sets

[08:54:32]

Speedy2:

Yes, I fully agree

[08:54:37]

justinh:

and when so much of what's available is SDTV.. meh

[08:54:46]

justinh:

that'll change in a couple of years maybe

[08:55:10]

Speedy2:

SDTV even on the best HDTVs I've seen still looks bad.

[08:55:41]

justinh:

if I could just unplug my brain & not look for artifacts when I watch something it'd be fine. but no ;-)

[08:56:09]

Speedy2:

You get used to it. I'm nitpicky, I work in video :)

[08:56:13]

Speedy2:

But eventually I adjusted.

[08:56:19]

justinh:

I work in video too

[08:56:42]

Speedy2:

Ok, its time for bed

[08:56:46]

Speedy2:

Nice chatting with you

[08:56:56]

justinh:

most of the things I watch are from the BBC,which tend to suffer from mpeg2 artifacting way less than say, ITV stuff :)

[08:57:40]

justinh:

anything ITV show live tends to look very legoey. Live shows with loads of intelligent stage lighting all over the place... macroblock city

[08:57:51]

justinh:

nn :)

[08:57:59]

Speedy2:

ITV == internet TV?

[08:58:08]

justinh:

no, commercial TV

[08:58:17]

Speedy2:

Ah

[08:58:20]

justinh:

Independent Television

[08:58:50]

justinh:

but internet TV is a good analogy.

[08:59:09]

justinh:

they look more like low bitrate youtube

[08:59:58]

justinh:

I'll post a screenshot of the blocking in 'X-Factor' when I get round to it. It's yuckee

[09:04:11]

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[09:25:01]

justinh:

lol. jbidwatcher is broken. seems to think an auction ending tomorrow finished in August last year

[09:26:56]

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[09:51:43]

AndyCap:

justinh: you could just junk your whole tv setup because I don't see it getting any better, ever.

[09:53:12]

justinh:

problem is, the nearest I've seen to acceptable quality in one aspect, everything else sucked on the set

[09:54:44]

AndyCap:

what aspect?

[09:54:48]

justinh:

my inlaws' 42" Sony is excellent at deinterlacing & doesn't look blurry but has retina burning colour saturation on every setting

[09:55:30]

justinh:

the scaling isn't too bad either

[09:55:35]

AndyCap:

so it's useless since you don't need deinterlacing or scaling?

[09:55:42]

justinh:

oh but we do

[09:55:51]

justinh:

don't always use mythtv, see

[09:55:56]

AndyCap:

fail.

[09:56:11]

justinh:

sometimes we just can't be bothered to boot the frontend

[09:56:40]

justinh:

and it's a bit short-sighted to rely on mythtv IMHO

[09:56:43]

AndyCap:

well, if it looks like crap you'll have some... incentive.

[09:57:08]

AndyCap:

well, if they take my mythtv away I think I'm about done with tv

[09:57:45]

justinh:

but then when we go HD I'll likely have a big ugly noisy combined system in a downstairs cupboard

[09:57:53]

justinh:

so it'll always be on anyway :)

[09:58:20]

justinh:

not that I'd ever tolerate livetv the way it is now

[09:59:45]

AndyCap:

Heh, i think it's ok, but I don't use it that much any more.

[09:59:46]

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[10:00:05]

justinh:

so you think I might get used to non-contrasty motion lagged TV?

[10:00:29]

justinh:

I'm one of those pedants who likes his blicks to be BLICK

[10:00:57]

justinh:

then again who am I kidding? seeing a telly in a shop is no way to appraise its Q

[10:01:05]

AndyCap:

ORLY? :P

[10:01:35]

AndyCap:

but I say it's hard to find anyone doing any scientific reviews of tv sets.

[10:01:37]

justinh:

the vast majority of places really don't have a clue how to set them up

[10:01:52]

AndyCap:

justinh: I'm more on the conspiracy theory side of things.

[10:02:21]

AndyCap:

I.e the set with most profit gets the most work in setup. :)

[10:02:56]

justinh:

one place I've seen have loads of them all showing the same HD material & the different between what I'd call chroma phase is startling. I.e. reds look purple. Which shouldn't happen in a digital scenario

[10:03:32]

justinh:

even differences in colour temp settings wouldn't normally make as big a difference AFAIK

[10:04:06]

AndyCap:

if the color decoding is set up right.

[10:04:22]

AndyCap:

some sets you get to fix that, some you don't

[10:04:42]

justinh:

it'll likely just be however they come out of the box

[10:05:21]

justinh:

"hello mister teevee salesman. Yes, I'd like to audition an HDTV. Can I bring my laptop in?"

[10:05:44]

justinh:

"will the TV manuals be available.. and of course the remote control for said teevees?"

[10:06:04]

AndyCap:

manual, internets. remote? bring a harmony. :P

[10:06:21]

justinh:

and my mobile internet dongle

[10:06:23]

AndyCap:

though I suspect they'll kick you out after 2 or 3 tvs

[10:06:54]

AndyCap:

bought mine mail order.

[10:07:04]

justinh:

my TV definition in my harmony doesn't have any of the setup menus set up :-(

[10:07:40]

justinh:

so making em work is a matter of learning the buttons :-S

[10:08:35]

justinh:

reminds me I must get back to trying to make my 515 not suck

[10:09:24]

justinh:

the key send rate of the arrow buttons can end up with it sending presses half way into next week

[10:10:17]

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[10:19:41]

justinh:

anyway, it's not like my current telly doesn't have limitations. The HT PSU regulation leaves something to be desired. Black text on white gets pulled around a bit & highly saturated colours can look a bit bandy

[10:20:21]

justinh:

& if all the affordable HDTVs are crapo I may aswell just get the cheapest :D

[10:20:42]

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[10:21:49]

justinh:

B&O know how to over-engineer a HT PSU. they know how to take your eyes out with their prices too though

[10:22:30]

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[10:25:37]

gbee:

justinh: even the big chains, Currys, Comet et al just hook the majority of their TVs up to a badly split analogue SD signal, hardly does them any justice and makes picking one based on picture quality impossible

[10:26:14]

justinh:

heh. Like I'd look in Currys or Comet ;-)

[10:26:38]

justinh:

Argos & the supermarkets at least use HDMI distribution

[10:27:25]

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[10:27:26]

justinh:

I'll more than likely end up in John Lewis' when I do buy though

[10:36:56]

ivor:

never knowingly undersold...

[10:37:56]

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[10:44:45]

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[10:45:06]

justinh:

I like em. sales people know what they're talking about or at least admit when they don't know

[10:45:36]

justinh:

I also like the free 5 year warranty & excellent delivery

[10:45:52]

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[10:45:59]

justinh:

like er, they say 1pm on Monday and it's 1pm Monday they come.

[10:46:43]

justinh:

unlike Comet & currys. Oh yeah. Next week sometime. Honest

[10:48:22]

justinh:

heh found the root of my firefox problem. Flash.

[10:48:28]

sid3windr:

obviously

[10:48:37]

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[10:48:46]

justinh:

installed flashblock & suddenly everything is wonderful

[10:49:59]

octavsly:

did somebody try gnash

[10:50:03]

octavsly:

I did some time ago

[10:50:10]

justinh:

gnash? never heard of it

[10:50:18]

octavsly:

on an intel based graphic and I was not too happy

[10:50:26]

octavsly:

* www-plugins/gnash

[10:50:26]

octavsly:

Available versions: ~0.8.5 ~0.8.6 {agg aqua cairo cygnal dbus doc ffmpeg gnome gstreamer gtk kde kdeenablefinal lirc mysql nls nsplugin opengl python sdl speex ssh ssl test video_cards_intel zlib}

[10:50:26]

octavsly:

Homepage: http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/

[10:50:26]

octavsly:

Description: GNU Flash movie player that supports many SWF v7,8,9 features

[10:50:57]

octavsly:

I don't know the status of this, thus my question

[10:51:11]

justinh:

I wouldn't care, flash is mostly just used for embedding very annoying things in pages anyway

[10:51:23]

octavsly:

what about movies?

[10:51:24]

justinh:

e.g. countless videos on blog pages & ads

[10:51:27]

justinh:

what about them?

[10:51:36]

octavsly:

sometime there are good movies on youtube

[10:51:45]

octavsly:

serious ones I mean

[10:51:54]

justinh:

the nice thing about flashblock is that you can set filters up

[10:52:05]

justinh:

so always show flash objects on certain sites, etc

[10:52:17]

pat_:

yeah, flashblock is pretty good

[10:52:26]

octavsly:

I can imagine. I just don't want some extra thing on top of my tousands of actiuons I am doing already :-)

[10:52:29]

justinh:

sites you trust to have well written flash objects that don't leak memory

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[11:05:59]

gbee:

ugh, ITV are useless, film last night started a whole hour late so I missed half of it ... in HD too

[11:07:37]

justinh:

there was fitba on, prolly why

[11:08:02]

justinh:

when the game overruns they couldn't possibly cut the anal ysis yabbering down

[11:08:19]

antgel:

the football went to extra time, i know that much

[11:08:28]

gbee:

justinh: ahh, but as always happens, football ended well before the film starttime, but they just couldn't drop the post-match commentary could they?

[11:08:36]

justinh:

course not

[11:08:55]

justinh:

the bbc are as bad

[11:09:04]

gbee:

like anyone cares about what a bunch of former footballers and washed up sports hacks think?

[11:09:08]

justinh:

like anybody cares about the post-mortem

[11:09:25]

justinh:

I doubt even the pundits give a damn

[11:09:37]

justinh:

they're only paid to fill :-)

[11:09:53]

gbee:

the football only accounted for the first ten minutes, the rest was the news which had obviously been pushed back by the football

[11:09:58]

** justinh mumbles "ach, terrible defendin'" **

[11:10:32]

gbee:

someone should just take ITV out back and put them out of their misery, they aren't fit for purpose

[11:10:48]

justinh:

read just now that Harry Hill might be moving to Sky

[11:10:57]

justinh:

the only funny thing they've got & he's leaving

[11:11:49]

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[11:16:06]

justinh:

I honestly hope ITV go subscription only. That'll really kill them off :D

[11:16:31]

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[11:16:44]

justinh:

SKy might be evil but they've got a lot more than ITV have going for em

[11:18:37]

justinh:

oh dear oh dear. somebody brought in an episode of S3 of Chuck. It's '1080i' but I can tell on first glance it's upscaled SD

[11:18:52]

justinh:

the interlacering looks erm.. thick

[11:25:28]

quicksilver:

gbee, justinh: in particular, with digital you'd think they could take the post-match yabbering to red button

[11:25:34]

quicksilver:

and the film could still start on time.

[11:29:32]

justinh:

quicksilver: in the bbc's case maybe. not ITV

[11:29:49]

justinh:

ITVHD *is* on their red button. lol

[11:29:56]

quicksilver:

ah, true.

[11:30:02]

justinh:

post switchover maybe they will

[11:30:19]

justinh:

or maybe the bbc trust will make the beeb abandon live sport

[11:31:31]

justinh:

always used to pee me off how they'd show a game, I figured ok..90 mins with half hour in the middle.. two hours right? nah, it's more like a 4 hour slot with poncing about

[11:35:08]

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[11:39:09]

gbee:

actually I think there is growing pressure for the BBC to create a dedicated sports channel where things can overrun and waste space without spoiling viewing on their other channels

[11:39:39]

justinh:

I'd vote for that

[11:39:48]

gbee:

since the trust will probably make them drop a couple of radio channels and one of the vid channels they'd have the room

[11:41:48]

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[11:41:50]

gbee:

and with Jonathan Ross gone, they'd have the budget too

[11:46:51]

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[11:51:08]

justinh:

heh

[11:52:13]

justinh:

I thought about this last week,wossy leaving. it leaves em with Graham Norton in a stronger position.. also leaves the door wide open for more vernon kay-alikes

[11:52:54]

justinh:

so he insulted Andrew Sachs. So? Net result was ressurecting the guy's career

[11:53:18]

justinh:

so he's a sex pest with his female guests. So would I be :)

[11:53:33]

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[11:53:51]

justinh:

axe SCD.. now that'd save some money

[11:59:06]

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[11:59:20]

justinh:

could be great having Kermode doing the Filmprogramme though

[11:59:56]

justinh:

they might even consider Charlie Brooker for the Friday night chat show slot. Yeah right, but it'd be great if they did :D

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[13:16:27]

th1:

Hi sphery, just let you know I've upgraded all my machines and everything seems fine with the database corruption all gone :)

[13:16:36]

th1:

thanks for your help the other night

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[14:01:00]

Dubstar_041:

has anyone tried building mnv yet?

[14:01:06]

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[14:01:12]

wagnerrp:

did so last night, seemed to work fine

[14:01:24]

wagnerrp:

havent actually tried it yet

[14:02:16]

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[14:02:21]

Dubstar_041:

i am getting an error for a loadinbackground function, and i cant see where the function is ?

[14:02:29]

Dubstar_041:

is it a mythui thing?

[14:02:45]

wagnerrp:

its reporting that in the logs?

[14:02:48]

RDV_Linux:

Dubstar_041: I have successfully. The very first release had a few files that needed to be changed and already have been.

[14:03:12]

wagnerrp:

do you have the necessary python prerequisites?

[14:03:30]

wagnerrp:

pycurl and feedparser

[14:03:47]

RDV_Linux:

Dubstar_041: Just what wagnerrp said

[14:04:12]

Dubstar_041:

http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1750971

[14:04:19]

Dubstar_041:

i will check them now

[14:04:51]

wagnerrp:

did you build and install a copy of trunk of the same revision?

[14:05:46]

Dubstar_041:

no i am trying to build with 0.22 fixes

[14:05:56]

wagnerrp:

yep...

[14:06:24]

Dubstar_041:

with this only work with trunk?

[14:06:34]

wagnerrp:

that error would seem to indicate as such

[14:06:36]

justinh:

presumably

[14:07:29]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: seems like theres your good reason why it wouldnt install properly on 0.22

[14:07:55]

RDV_Linux:

Dubstar_041: Yesterday iamlindoro warned that MNV has never been tested on 0.22+fixes and may interfere with your upgrade to 0.23. There are db changes.

[14:08:06]

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[14:08:22]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010 . . . /277860.html

[14:08:23]

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[14:08:54]

wagnerrp:

although it would appear he has nothing to worry about with people screwing up their databases

[14:10:13]

Dubstar_041:

I cant see where its calling LoadInBackground() from is that a mythui call ?

[14:10:42]

wagnerrp:

very likely

[14:12:03]

Dubstar_041:

it seems to build without the function!

[14:12:14]

Dubstar_041:

i wonder what wont work?

[14:12:21]

wagnerrp:

the plugin

[14:12:40]

Dubstar_041:

it loads...

[14:12:49]

wagnerrp:

sorta...

[14:14:11]

RDV_Linux:

Dubstar_041: images (thimbnails) are loaded in the background and there are a number of functions intended to run in the background.

[14:15:09]

Dubstar_041:

can someone try an build against trunk?

[14:15:16]

RDV_Linux:

Dubstar_041: MNV is a beta release so we can get more eye balls on the plugin and grabbers. The functionality is not completed.

[14:15:35]

stuartm:

Dubstar_041: I think you can assume that iamlindoro and others are already building against trunk

[14:15:40]

justinh:

image loading kinda sorta has to be non-blocking or umm... bad things will happen

[14:16:02]

justinh:

or rather, stuff will just be slow & kind of sucky

[14:16:10]

RDV_Linux:

Dubstar_041: I have built it against trunk and all functionality implemented so far works.

[14:16:12]

Dubstar_041:

iamlindoro removed some includes, iam wondering if the loadinbackground function was in one of them

[14:16:35]

Dubstar_041:

i want to test my iplayer grabber i have been working on!!

[14:16:43]

justinh:

safe to assume any new plugin work is done against trunk

[14:16:50]

justinh:

infact it's de rigeur

[14:17:19]

Dubstar_041:

i dont want to run trunk on this machine though

[14:17:19]

jduggan:

heh

[14:17:26]

RDV_Linux:

Dubstar_041: iamlindoro will be awake and online in an hour or 1.5 hrs

[14:17:57]

justinh:

you don't want to run trunk? that usually rules out doing much development work

[14:17:58]

Dubstar_041:

RDV_Linux: ok I will speak? with him then

[14:20:00]

Dubstar_041:

justinh: whys that?

[14:21:38]

justinh:

uhh cos new features generally have to run against trunk to stand any chance at inclusion

[14:22:34]

justinh:

means less work for people in the long run too :-)

[14:25:46]

justinh:

in some cases it doesn't matter but that all depends on which code is used & how etc.. it's just termed best practise to develop feature changes against trunk

[14:31:27]

justinh:

I dunno how much experience you've had coding but I find that code that compiles fine & works fine are entirely different things :D

[14:36:00]

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[14:40:13]

loki_666:

justinh, printf("%s",(char*) 0xdeadcode); will compile fine

[14:40:47]

loki_666:

:p

[14:40:55]

quicksilver:

.win 34

[14:40:58]

quicksilver:

(

[14:40:59]

quicksilver:

:(

[14:41:33]

justinh:

hmm. never seen that emoticon before. what's %s for then?

[14:43:26]

loki_666:

%s is the toke replace for a string

[14:43:31]

loki_666:

token

[14:44:02]

loki_666:

but 0xdeadcode wont compile... yet 0xdeadbeef will

[14:44:28]

justinh:

amazing

[14:44:57]

justinh:

you still didn't say what the %s smile is representing though

[14:45:45]

stuartm:

justinh: string, printf = print format, %s = string (vs integer etc)

[14:45:59]

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[14:46:11]

justinh:

my attempt at being funny fell flat on its arse, apparently :)

[14:46:29]

stuartm:

0xdeadcode is a number, in hex (0,1,2 .... d,e,f)

[14:46:43]

justinh:

you can't have an 'o' in hex

[14:46:53]

justinh:

it's > f :)

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[14:47:09]

stuartm:

justinh: funny enough it didn't the first time, but when you repeated the question I mis-read and thought you were genuinely asking the second time :)

[14:47:27]

stuartm:

justinh: err, yeah, I meant deadbeef

[14:47:51]

justinh:

guess I'm not clever enough to convincingly act thick ;)

[14:48:06]

stuartm:

heh

[14:48:13]

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[14:49:13]

quicksilver:

0xdeadc0de might have been what loki_666 was looking for.

[14:49:31]

quicksilver:

but C is a particularly painful language for "compile fine but dont work"

[14:49:41]

quicksilver:

in, for example, haskell compile fine more often means work fine

[14:50:02]

** justinh ports myth to lolcode **

[14:50:13]

loki_666:

well 0xdeadc0de / 0xdeadbeef, the same the was it can compile fine yet segfault miserably

[14:53:26]

mag0o:

heh, netflix finally coming to the wii

[14:54:36]

justinh:

$anythinguseful finally coming to the wii

[14:55:26]

mag0o:

keeps me from having to buy $blurayplayerwithnetflixsincemytvdoesnthavenetflix

[14:55:29]

mag0o:

:)

[14:56:23]

justinh:

wonder if anyone's worked out how to talk to a balance board yet

[14:57:07]

justinh:

I should've known

[14:57:51]

mag0o:

speak nicely?

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[16:20:02]

CShadowRun:

Trying to compile mythtv, getting alot of errors about freetype :(

[16:21:48]

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[16:46:20]

iamlindoro:

justinh: Speaking of Arclight, have you seen since I gave it a little overhaul?

[16:48:06]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight_PBB.png http://www.fecitfacta.com/MV_Arclight.png

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[17:00:25]

itscrimetime:

hey all

[17:03:16]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: Very, very nice. ;-)

[17:06:28]

Dubstar_04:

iamlindoro: that is very slick looking indeed

[17:06:39]

iamlindoro:

thanks guys

[17:07:51]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro, in the MV ss – everything in the plot is double quoted, any ideas why?

[17:07:52]

Dubstar_04:

iamlindoro: please dont shout!! I tried building MNVon 0.2 fixes and got nettree.cpp:126: error: ‘LoadInBackground’ was not declared in this scope

[17:08:31]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: Because the source double quoted it

[17:09:48]

skd5aner:

of course – stupid source :P

[17:09:49]

gbee:

iamlindoro: looks great :) progress bar bothers me but maybe I'm alone on that

[17:09:49]

iamlindoro:

Dubstar_04: LoadInBackground is a UI function only available in .23. I saw above that you cut it out. I don't expect things to work quite right without it, but I really can't provide any support at all on the plugin for you if you're going to try to run it on .22

[17:10:16]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Heh, what about it? *shrug* I like it

[17:10:19]

iamlindoro:

thanks though

[17:10:38]

Dubstar_04:

I cant run trunk because its a box we use daily

[17:10:47]

Dubstar_04:

ahh well

[17:11:30]

iamlindoro:

Dubstar_04: it is a fairly simple matter to set trunk up in a VM

[17:11:38]

gbee:

nothing in particular, it's a fine looking progress bar, it just doesn't fit the style as well as everything else – again maybe just me

[17:11:39]

iamlindoro:

the Mythbuntu guys do most (all?) of their development that way

[17:11:57]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Well.. it is recycled, maybe I'll take another look at it before .23

[17:12:30]

iamlindoro:

Dubstar_04: For my money I'd set up a VM, install the curent Mythbuntu, and upgrade to their trunk nightly build packages

[17:12:32]

skd5aner:

the progress bar shows what exactly? How much of the show you've watched (where you left off) or how far along it is recorded?

[17:12:42]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: disk usage

[17:12:48]

skd5aner:

ah – ok

[17:12:53]

Dubstar_04:

iamlindoro: you have twisted my arm

[17:12:57]

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[17:13:01]

skd5aner:

suppose it'd help if I read the text above it :S

[17:13:30]

skd5aner:

a way of kind of showing the old "delete recordings" info on the pbb?

[17:13:31]

gbee:

made me think though, mythvideo doesn't allow the display of free space, something for the consistency checklist

[17:13:42]

iamlindoro:

gbee: It does display a teensy bug, though, in that 0% shows a full progress bar

[17:14:25]

gbee:

skd5aner: and thanks for that too, it's given me an idea to expose more data in program info so that the %watched etc can be displayed

[17:14:55]

skd5aner:

gbee: haha, np – just blurting out random thoughts :D

[17:17:50]

skd5aner:

gbee: not sure if it could be contextual – i.e., during recording it shows % of recording done, then after recording, it shows how much is watched? Or even overlay the two.

[17:18:07]

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[17:18:12]

skd5aner:

btw, I like how Graphite shows the circular graphic showing an active recording

[17:18:20]

skd5aner:

very good visually

[17:18:27]

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[17:18:50]

** gbee will have to check that out **

[17:19:07]

gbee:

skd5aner: similar to what Terra does?

[17:19:21]

iamlindoro:

yes, it's similar

[17:19:29]

skd5aner:

It doesn't give % context, just a animated "wait" like circle – and yes, it's similiar to Terra

[17:20:27]

gbee:

I've never tried Graphite with a recording in progress :)

[17:21:03]

skd5aner:

then you've never truely lived ;)

[17:21:05]

skd5aner:

lol

[17:21:14]

iamlindoro:

"...an abortion of a front-end..." Oh users list, you make it all worthwhile

[17:21:57]

skd5aner:

I stopped reading -users, just comments and occasionally -dev... I only search gossamer-threads for topics I need if I'm reading users

[17:22:28]

skd5aner:

s/comments/commits

[17:23:13]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: I'm assuming someone was complaining about mythfrontend?

[17:23:22]

th1:

I just upgraded to 0.22-fixes from 0.21-fixes, and all is quite good after a few days of tuning, but one thing that really pains is that when you open the "Watch recordings" screen on the frontend it takes almost 30 seconds to load.. it was more like 3–4 seconds on the old one. Is there a fix to this? I guess it's because it's loading a lot of thumbnails in the new themes..

[17:23:48]

gbee:

th1: no, that's not the reason at all

[17:23:56]

th1:

ok gbee :)

[17:24:10]

gbee:

it doesn't take that long for anyone else

[17:24:18]

gbee:

in fact it's faster than the old one

[17:24:18]

skd5aner:

th1: yea, that's abnormally long

[17:24:26]

th1:

ok

[17:24:30]

th1:

then I have a problem I guess

[17:25:27]

th1:

I have 591 recorded shows is that abnormally high?

[17:25:33]

iamlindoro:

nope

[17:25:36]

th1:

ok

[17:25:46]

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[17:25:49]

gbee:

images are loaded in the background, preview images are cached on the local filesystem, so it should have nothing to do with the images at all unless something is broken on your system

[17:26:02]

th1:

then I don't know what's causing it other than I think it's the backend, because it's very slow both on my debian main frontend and my Ubuntu netbook frontend

[17:26:12]

sphery:

th1: glad everything's working for you.

[17:26:16]

gbee:

th1: wifi?

[17:26:23]

sphery:

(database wise, that is)

[17:26:34]

th1:

gbee, the netbook is wifi, the main frontend is gigabit ether

[17:26:56]

th1:

sphery, thanks. and thanks a lot for the help the other night.

[17:27:00]

gbee:

iamlindoro: tell whoever is complaining on -users to fuck off

[17:27:23]

skd5aner:

potty mouth

[17:27:24]

sphery:

you're welcome. hope whatever approach you used didn't require too much effort on channels.

[17:27:35]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: he's allowed

[17:27:42]

iamlindoro:

th1: Are you using NFS?

[17:27:48]

gbee:

actually, find out their address first, if they are local I might pay them a visit

[17:28:15]

iamlindoro:

ie, is it a remote frontend, and do you also have the recordings directories loaded via NFS?

[17:28:19]

th1:

iamlindoro, the debian frontend is diskless nfsroot and it has the recordings directories mounted too (and symlinked so it's identical to the backend)

[17:28:36]

** gbee waits for the knock on the door from the Amarok 2 devs ... **

[17:28:42]

iamlindoro:

th1: And is that the frontend which is exhibiting the frontend?

[17:28:47]

iamlindoro:

er exhibiting the issue

[17:28:56]

iamlindoro:

and how does it behave if run directly on the backend?

[17:29:00]

th1:

yes but also my netbook (although that could be explained by it being wifi)

[17:29:01]

** gbee isn't above hypocrisy **

[17:29:12]

th1:

I can't run frontend on the backend server, it's headless

[17:29:20]

iamlindoro:

gbee: None of us are

[17:29:40]

** iamlindoro refers all likely NFS-related issues to sphery **

[17:29:47]

th1:

hehe

[17:29:48]

iamlindoro:

but I will say I betcha it's NFS configuration related

[17:30:02]

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[17:30:04]

th1:

I can try to unmount the NFS shares with the recordings and see if it helps

[17:30:21]

th1:

but it worked before on 0.21, and it still plays 1080p high-bitrate videos fine over that nfs

[17:30:35]

iamlindoro:

It's not a matter of data access time IIRC

[17:30:43]

th1:

ok

[17:30:50]

iamlindoro:

but rather some funky timestamp/modification time thing

[17:30:51]

th1:

I've enabled all the "relaxed" options for the NFS mounts too

[17:30:52]

gbee:

huh, has ITVHD gone 24/7?

[17:31:08]

th1:

gbee, is itvhd on freesat?

[17:31:20]

iamlindoro:

I dunno, I don't use NFS, but there are similar sorts of issues discussed to death on the users list and IIRC they all come down to using NFS/some NFS config issues

[17:31:22]

gbee:

yes

[17:31:22]

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[17:31:29]

th1:

gbee, whee I need to do a rescan ;)

[17:31:42]

th1:

iamlindoro, I'll try with the nfs shares unmounted

[17:31:59]

th1:

then if it's not related to that I'll cry here again :)

[17:32:11]

iamlindoro:

th1: I'm note sure that will be enough on the NFSroot system

[17:32:17]

th1:

hmm

[17:32:18]

gbee:

th1: it's been there for well over a year

[17:32:20]

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[17:32:26]

sphery:

why would NFS-related stuff go to me?

[17:32:39]

skd5aner:

mmmm, doesn't look like any of the current generation VDPAU capable cards support component out :(

[17:32:48]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Because you are Mr. NFS configuration lecture man ;)

[17:32:49]

th1:

iamlindoro, the machine has 1GB ram so I don't think it'll be loading anything from NFS unless it tries to access the backend files directlyh

[17:32:59]

th1:

except if it's some lock files or whatnot

[17:33:03]

sphery:

heh, wasn't component so 3 generations ago? :)

[17:33:15]

sphery:

I really don't know NFS

[17:33:23]

th1:

the tmp directories are all mounted as tmpfs's

[17:33:30]

sphery:

only enough to know I don't want it on my systems :)

[17:33:30]

th1:

so no temporary files should be on NFS

[17:33:42]

skd5aner:

I guess a question would be, could you use storage groups for your recordings?

[17:33:51]

th1:

sphery, I use smbfs for my slave backend because the UID's don't match.. it's actually as fast as NFS :)

[17:33:55]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: You can *only* use storage groups for recordings

[17:34:26]

th1:

skd5aner it's the whole purpose of the storage groups?

[17:34:45]

sphery:

th1: Yeah, Samba isn't necessarily a bad choice. Generally, configuring NFS for performance is easier on *nix than configuring Samba, but if you do Samba config properly, you can actually get better performance out of it.

[17:35:10]

th1:

sphery, but of course on my master backend it has nfs root and I don't see linux booting off SMB root any time soon :)

[17:35:18]

sphery:

the problem with Samba is typically the fact that it breaks all music tagging in tablib and sometimes has file size limits and ...

[17:35:20]

th1:

s/master backend/main frontend/

[17:35:32]

sphery:

heh, yeah, smb root... *shudders*

[17:35:52]

th1:

but samba is pretty good, it's amazing they get that performance in userspace

[17:35:55]

gbee:

samba is worse than nfs for causing nasty performance or behavioural issues

[17:36:49]

skd5aner:

sorry – wasn't reading everything, what exactly is he accessing over NFS?

[17:37:21]

sphery:

think it's his root file system--network boot or something

[17:37:54]

skd5aner:

ah, I thought he was saying his recorings were mounted over NFS, that's why I asked regarding storage groups/streaming from backend

[17:38:30]

iamlindoro:

His recordings are mounted over NFS

[17:38:34]

iamlindoro:

but they're still SG hosted

[17:38:45]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: sorry, I don't follow – "only use storage groups for recordings"

[17:38:48]

gbee:

streaming ftw

[17:38:57]

iamlindoro:

But Myth tries to "help" when it finds the files locally, and that can cause conflict/issues

[17:39:07]

skd5aner:

ah....

[17:39:33]

skd5aner:

I see, so if it finds a file directly within a path it will try to play locally instead of stream?

[17:39:42]

iamlindoro:

correct

[17:39:47]

skd5aner:

I did not know that!

[17:40:13]

gbee:

hence there is a setting to force it to always stream

[17:40:21]

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[17:40:42]

skd5aner:

hmmm, even if "Master Backend Override" is checked?

[17:40:47]

gbee:

some people insist that NFS is more resilient over patchy networks, e.g. wifi

[17:41:06]

gbee:

which afaik is the only reason that setting even exists

[17:42:26]

skd5aner:

I see, so if a frontend can access it directly, and master backend override is enable, it will stream, if it's disabled, it'll play via local/NFS, and if it's off AND can't access it locally, it'll default back to streaming.. correct?

[17:42:54]

sphery:

I thought it was put there for people who have storage attached to the master backend, but use NFS from remote hosts to write to the mbe storage.

[17:43:11]

gbee:

heh, bank advertising that they'll pay you £5 if you pay in £1000 a month ... we used to call that interest and 0.5% is pathetic

[17:43:39]

sphery:

then, rather than the frontend talking to the remote backend, which uses nfs to read from the mbe's file systems, the data goes direct from the mbe and its file systems to the frontend

[17:43:50]

skd5aner:

gbee: people are dumb, gotta dumb down the marketing

[17:44:14]

skd5aner:

"awesome – 5GBP a month!"

[17:44:24]

skd5aner:

:P

[17:44:47]

gbee:

banks are taking the piss these days

[17:45:15]

gbee:

I can earn more interest on my money by stuffing it under the mattress

[17:45:54]

iamlindoro:

greater security too ;)

[17:45:56]

skd5aner:

gbee: how do interest rates work over there? Do they have anything equivalent to the "prime rate" in the US?

[17:46:21]

skd5aner:

prime + x for example

[17:46:52]

th1:

gbee, samba actually implements CIFS which is designed to be more resilient even over diverse networks

[17:47:08]

th1:

which is a superset of SMB

[17:47:16]

gbee:

we have a national base rate, which many banks commit to matching for savers, but then only for savings accounts and not current accounts

[17:47:36]

th1:

no bank pays any reasonable interest on current accounts...

[17:47:43]

skd5aner:

th1: I use NFS and CIFS, but for different purposes

[17:47:54]

skd5aner:

CIFS is much better than SMB

[17:48:00]

th1:

trick is to write a perl script that transfers the excess from the current account to the savings account every afternoon :)

[17:48:11]

th1:

and the other way when current balance is low

[17:48:14]

gbee:

a couple of years ago I was earning near 7% on my savings account, it's now 0.1% or mabe even 0% (financial crises apparently)

[17:48:15]

skd5aner:

although, as you mentioned, a subset – but you can still specify smb if you want

[17:49:04]

skd5aner:

gbee: I guess I was curious what the basis is for the variability in the rate over there

[17:49:29]

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[17:50:01]

gbee:

banks could pay the same level of interest on the current accounts (or close to it) since they earn just as much from that money, but since most people need to use a current account the banks have no reason to offer it

[17:50:02]

skd5aner:

for credit, interest is usually calculated in the US as "prime + x" so, if the prime rate is 4, and the rate you get is 5, then your total interest would be 9%

[17:50:26]

skd5aner:

but, for savings, it's often a flat rate that the Bank determines and can modify at will – 3%, 1%, etc

[17:51:35]

skd5aner:

either way – interest rates suck right now for any kind of savings... I imagine world wide

[17:53:45]

th1:

yeah they pretty much suck

[17:56:12]

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[17:58:23]

skd5aner:

sphery: re: component out – has to do with the way my house is wired, I can distribute video to every room in the house extremely easily via component from a central location, but HDMI would be very costly

[17:59:51]

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[18:00:02]

skd5aner:

I'd have to use baluns to ship HDMI over Cat5/6, or use HDFury, both of which aren't cheap

[18:00:30]

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[18:01:28]

skd5aner:

so – it'd be pretty convienent for me if I could find a good, current gen VDPAU card with component out, but it's not looking promising

[18:02:22]

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[18:04:49]

th1:

[18:05:15]

th1:

skd5aner, but I use a balun for hdmi instead maybe that's better for you

[18:05:18]

skd5aner:

th1: probably not, but which one?

[18:05:41]

th1:

I can't remember exactly which one but I can find out if you're interested

[18:05:50]

skd5aner:

th1: yea, it probably is the "right" way to go, but my additional cost to do component is $0

[18:05:53]

th1:

but the HDMI one uses 2 cat5e/6's

[18:06:02]

th1:

[18:06:14]

skd5aner:

your baluns or the converter?

[18:06:51]

th1:

http://www.tvcables.co.uk/cgi-bin/tvcables/hd . . . der-30m.html

[18:06:52]

th1:

baluns

[18:06:54]

th1:

[18:07:17]

th1:

and it works like a charm. how long are your cables?

[18:08:13]

skd5aner:

Depends on the room :)

[18:08:45]

skd5aner:

the main living room, I think is about 50 ft, and it looks like that one would support up to ~100ft

[18:08:48]

th1:

that one is allegedly good up to 30 meters for 1080p. my cables are about 15–20m I guess. but they do a 60m version as well.

[18:09:12]

skd5aner:

what was your hdmi->component converter?

[18:09:13]

th1:

then you should be sorted with that

[18:09:21]

th1:

let me find out ..

[18:09:49]

th1:

VisionFC4 HDMI to RGB YPbPr Component Video Converter

[18:09:55]

th1:

bought it off ebay so I don't have a link

[18:10:03]

skd5aner:

baluns are pretty cool...

[18:10:09]

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[18:10:13]

skd5aner:

np, I see lots out there, I'll see what that one is like

[18:10:16]

skd5aner:

did you like it?

[18:10:50]

th1:

it worked fine but I was tired of the slight ghosting I got from my component baluns

[18:11:06]

th1:

but that was the baluns not the converter, I tried to hook it up directly to find out

[18:11:46]

skd5aner:

see, I've got 5 wire bundled mini-coax running to all my TV, YPbPr, plus R/L Audio to every TV, running into my A/V closet

[18:12:16]

skd5aner:

I've also got 4 Cat6, and 2 cat 5 to every TV as well, for future-proofing using Baluns

[18:12:25]

th1:

it could also do HDMI to VGA. the output was a standard VGA connector and it came with a component cable that fitted it, and there was a switch to choose RGB or YPbPr output

[18:12:53]

th1:

well then go with the HDMI baluns.. It improved my experience a lot

[18:13:12]

skd5aner:

yea, like I said – that's probably the "best" way to go, but definitely comes with a price tag

[18:13:14]

th1:

and they are cheaper than the converters anyway

[18:13:17]

Dubstar_04:

is there a build-dep package for ubuntu that doesnt fault on the nvidia driver?

[18:13:21]

skd5aner:

especially if you're talking more than 1 room

[18:13:23]

th1:

[18:13:54]

skd5aner:

nah, that's not too shabby, if the exchange rate is still close to 2:1, that'd be about ~$60

[18:14:05]

th1:

yeah

[18:14:27]

skd5aner:

when I looked a couple of years ago, I think they were averaging around $100 for a pair

[18:14:34]

sphery:

skd5aner: yeah, I was joking about component--just giving the marketing party line

[18:14:48]

th1:

yes those are the active ones that do up to 100m

[18:15:05]

th1:

these are "passive" well more or less they have a power supply but it works even if it's not connected :)

[18:15:11]

skd5aner:

sphery: ah, sorry – sometimes my sarcasm detector gets confused when it tries to interpret text ;)

[18:15:23]

skd5aner:

sphery: either way – wanted to give you the background on why I was looking

[18:15:38]

sphery:

yeah, it's a challenge in IRC to express and to interpret sarcasm :)

[18:15:39]

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[18:16:01]

th1:

there's nothing wrong with component if your situation is ideal ;)

[18:16:05]

sphery:

right

[18:16:16]

skd5aner:

sphery: especially, when historically, some folks in the community would say the same thing and not be sarcastic :S

[18:16:26]

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[18:16:45]

th1:

back when I used the component baluns it was actually the only reasonably priced way to do what I wanted

[18:16:48]

skd5aner:

not you, of course, just sayin' – things are getting better

[18:17:29]

sphery:

yeah, I'm one who's actually more disturbed by people who completely shut out ideas because "it's not digital" or whatever without ever testing (and without realizing that different hardware may excel at different things)

[18:17:33]

skd5aner:

yea, I'm still running a 7000 series nvidia card with the frontend sitting next to the TV, so I haven't gotten to the point where the video is distributed from the closet

[18:18:08]

skd5aner:

but, kinda said to see the new GT 2*0 only supporting DVI. Maybe I could find one with VGA output, as I think that'll directly convert to component

[18:18:27]

sphery:

same thing with the "I can't get an HD-PVR because then I have to go digital->analog->digital, and I don't want the quality loss"

[18:18:32]

Dubstar_04:

is there a quick way of getting all the dependencies for my in ubuntu?

[18:18:32]

th1:

do 7000 series support vdpau? I have a 7950gx2 from my gaming pc that I retired some time ago..

[18:18:54]

wagnerrp:

no

[18:19:06]

wagnerrp:

only chips newer than the G80

[18:19:13]

skd5aner:

sphery: yea, I'm still on crusade to prevent people from thinking that a cable that costs $$$$ has to be better than one that costs $ when they're both sending a digital signal :P

[18:19:16]

wagnerrp:

so that means the original G80 8800GTX doesnt work either

[18:19:50]

th1:

Dubstar_04, apt-cache depends mythtv

[18:19:54]

sphery:

skd5aner: I don't know... Some of those $500 cables /must/ be nice, right?

[18:20:00]

sphery:

^^^ sarcasm

[18:20:12]

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[18:20:16]

skd5aner:

lol – I think I got that one ;)

[18:20:23]

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[18:20:23]

sphery:

just in case

[18:20:51]

** sphery tries to find a place to put the 110GB of data on this hard drive so he can upgrade his OS **

[18:21:15]

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[18:21:16]

skd5aner:

well – they sure should be nice, I mean – their copper is probably 100x more pure than the 100% pure copper in my monoprice cables

[18:21:19]

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[18:21:25]

th1:

Dubstar_04, or apt-cache depends --recurse mythtv if you want dependencies of dependencies (LONG output)

[18:22:36]

th1:

Dubstar_04, if you just want to see what you need on top of what you already have just do aptitude -s install mythtv

[18:22:39]

Dubstar_04:

ive just set up a VM for testing and want to get the depenencies eg sudo apt-get build-dep mythtv

[18:22:51]

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[18:23:00]

th1:

Dubstar_04, the dependencies for building or installing it?

[18:23:08]

Dubstar_04:

building

[18:23:42]

justinh:

wow how much more OT can the users ML get?

[18:23:49]

th1:

then sudo apt-get build-dep -s mythtv

[18:24:14]

th1:

Dubstar_04, -s means simulate only

[18:24:25]

gbee:

justinh: don't give them a challenge!

[18:24:38]

justinh:

lol

[18:25:44]

Dubstar_04:

build-dep mythtv hasnt worked for a while due to an nvidia dependancy

[18:25:55]

** justinh composes OT: Setting up filters in gmail to mark OT posts as spam **

[18:26:31]

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[18:27:10]

GreyFoxx:

There is a users list ?

[18:27:14]

GreyFoxx:

:)

[18:27:29]

th1:

Dubstar_04, even the dry-run doesn't work?

[18:27:30]

** J-e-f-f-A laughs at GreyFoxx ;-) **

[18:27:59]

Dubstar_04:

no its not worked for a while.

[18:28:11]

th1:

what is the error message

[18:28:28]

justinh:

worked a couple of weeks ago when I last used it, Dubstar_04

[18:28:46]

Dubstar_04:

unmet dependancies nvidia-185-livdpau

[18:29:33]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: you bought something that claimed 100% pure copper?

[18:29:38]

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[18:29:38]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

[18:29:46]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: Dude! I've always wondered if I could actually use that old Epson printer for something useful... hehehehe

[18:30:19]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: such a thing would probably be in the billions, if at all possible

[18:30:28]

justinh:

J-e-f-f-A: well yeah, since ink cartridges are made from unicorns ...

[18:30:44]

J-e-f-f-A:

;-)

[18:31:13]

justinh:

rumour has it the latest Epson printer drivers check your bank balance. when it's up to a level where you can afford to buy new ink, it refuses to print til you buy new carts

[18:31:56]

Dubstar_04:

if i try installing nvidia-185-libvdpau it trys uninstalling all the mythbuntu stuff

[18:31:59]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: Yep, and triggers epson.com to send you spam emails about ink specials...

[18:32:35]

justinh:

isn't mythbuntu just like a metapackage?

[18:36:46]

th1:

yes

[18:36:47]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: no, just joking around

[18:36:54]

th1:

mythbuntu is bloated

[18:37:35]

th1:

my new debian nfsroot frontend (that replaces ubuntu) is only 1G root fs with everything needed to show MythTV and it boots in 30 seconds to the Myth menu which is half a minute faster than the ubuntu did

[18:38:34]

gizmobay:

anyone know how to shrink a xfs partition?

[18:38:34]

justinh:

heh that could be faster by chopping init up a little

[18:38:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1 That's pretty quick. My FC11 frontend with Myth built from source boots to Myth in almost exactly 60 seconds. (I think I've got 2GB ram on it)

[18:38:56]

th1:

I've only got 1GB RAM on mine

[18:39:02]

wagnerrp:

mythgallery uses mplayer?

[18:39:10]

iamlindoro:

It can, for video playback

[18:39:12]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1: and NFS root... wow, nice & quick.

[18:39:18]

iamlindoro:

which begs the question about MythGallery playing videos

[18:39:25]

th1:

J-e-f-f-A, but I installed the most basic debian with debootstrap and then I only installed the stuff absolutely required for myth

[18:39:40]

th1:

boot time is counted from after it loads the kernel

[18:39:51]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1: I'm still running local HDDs on my frontends – I'll change that at some point in the future.

[18:40:00]

th1:

it spends about 5 secs in the bios too

[18:40:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1: same thing for my boot time. ;-)

[18:40:14]

justinh:

I thought mythgallery has been changed to use Internal

[18:40:19]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: I think it makes since that MythGallery should be capable of playing video, given that almost all digital cameras have video capabilities any more

[18:40:32]

th1:

I'll flash gpxe to see if I get faster boot with that because the PXE rom in the netcard is not hugely fast

[18:40:33]

skd5aner:

and users may want to keep those small video clips with their photo collections

[18:40:49]

th1:

takes 2–3 seconds to download the kernel with tftp

[18:40:58]

th1:

if it was http from gpxe it would probably be 1 second or less :)

[18:41:07]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: i think it would make more sense to remove video playback entirely, and delegate local file access in mythvideo to 'browse' mode

[18:41:21]

J-e-f-f-A:

skd5aner: It did in 0.21-fixes (played .mov format video clips from my Kodak camera), but dumped you back into the gallery after the 1st video it played.

[18:41:30]

th1:

and if I built a kernel with all the needed modules compiled in I could probably shed another 2–3 seconds

[18:41:46]

wagnerrp:

if you want to view pictures, use mythgallery, if you want to view videos, use browse mode in mythvideo

[18:42:22]

th1:

wagnerrp, well if you use the digital camera like I do then you'll have some 200 holiday photos and about 10 videos in the same directory

[18:42:32]

th1:

then it's nice to view them all together like you would in e.g. irfanview

[18:42:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1: I played around with NFS booting a year or two ago, and couldn't quite get it right. I ran out of time to 'play' with it, so 'shelved' the project... I'll get back to it some day. ;-)

[18:42:40]

skd5aner:

but, it doesn't make a lot of sense if you are browsing your "Christmas 2009" album, looking at all the pictures, but then the 10 sec clip of grandpa opening his gift you took with your point in shoot isn't also viewable in the same gallery

[18:43:00]

th1:

J-e-f-f-A, it's not hard and there are lots of guides on how to do it

[18:43:12]

skd5aner:

iPhoto, Picasa – all of them import, group, and play back vids associated with events

[18:43:19]

th1:

main thing is you need a NIC with PXE ROM or motherboard with that

[18:44:02]

skd5aner:

th1: haha, came up with the same example

[18:44:08]

th1:

yeah

[18:44:18]

th1:

skd5aner, because that's the main use case for that feature :)

[18:44:24]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1: Yep. It might have been 3+ years now, as when I last played with it, I remember trying out each of my PCI 100Mbps cards to see if they had PXE support...

[18:44:44]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A: yeah, generally only higher end stuff did

[18:44:53]

th1:

J-e-f-f-A, even if it doesn't out of the box you can boot with gpxe off a small USB key or whatever

[18:45:07]

th1:

or even a floppy or cd

[18:45:09]

wagnerrp:

none of my cheapo realtek (linksys, dlink, netgear) cards have a ROM

[18:45:18]

wagnerrp:

but ive got a handful of 3-com ones that do

[18:45:59]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1: yeah, i started to 'shift' to using a CF card with a CF -> IDE adapter – even bought some 'el-cheapo' 1, 2 and 4GB CF cards... Nowadays it's probably easier to boot off of a usb drive.

[18:46:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

(or just as easy)

[18:46:16]

th1:

most on-motherboard NIC's have PXE ROMS as part of the BIOS, or the BIOS can be modded to include a gpxe one

[18:46:37]

th1:

and most motherboards modern enough to run a decent frontend have got on-board nics :)

[18:46:41]

wagnerrp:

is it in the BIOS? or a separate ROM?

[18:46:41]

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[18:48:03]

justinh:

heh I could afford waiting a couple of seconds if it means not messing with the BIOS

[18:49:07]

justinh:

be great if one day PCs did away with the whole BIOS junk anyway. Just have linux on a flash instead :)

[18:49:55]

devinheitmueller:

Hey, does anyone have any thoughts about whether it would be rejected if I submitted a patch which provides a default set of key definitions that worked with the vast majority of remote controls that use the inpudev interface?

[18:50:22]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1: I guess one of the things I was 'waiting' for was to reach the point where I built my own kernels, slimmed down to that specific machine. But IMHO, a 60-second boot time with a 'standard' kernel seems pretty quick, so I may not even persue it anymore...

[18:50:26]

gbee:

I modified mythgallery so that it would use internal, although I suspect that was broken before the release of 0.22 :/

[18:50:33]

devinheitmueller:

One of the big challenges people have is getting IR to work, and I think I could come up with a keymapping that worked with the bulk of the remote controls that ship with the tuners.

[18:50:35]

justinh:

devinheitmueller: if it doesn't rock the boat – i.e. break stuff for everybody else

[18:50:57]

devinheitmueller:

Well, Myth does support multiple keys for a given command, so this would not *replace* the existing map, but rather extend it.

[18:51:10]

Dagmar:

wow

[18:51:14]

Dagmar:

People just don't thinkk

[18:51:25]

Dagmar:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7870 <-- I fail to see how this is a bug in Myth

[18:51:37]

devinheitmueller:

There are a bunch of input keys used by remote controls called things like "CHANNEL_UP" which would be great to map by default in MythTV, and won't conflict with anything on the keyboard.

[18:52:15]

devinheitmueller:

... and if I did this, almost all of the remote controls that come with the tuners would "just work" under MythTV with no lirc configuration at all.

[18:52:59]

justinh:

devinheitmueller: no harm in putting it on a ticket :)

[18:53:05]

gbee:

Dagmar: it's not, but I left that open since there is a real problem with our ability to detect those error conditions and a) reschedule b) delete the empty file

[18:53:20]

gbee:

actually, I think there is already another ticket open for that

[18:53:25]

devinheitmueller:

Well, I wanted to try to gauge if it would be rejected outright before I did the work.

[18:54:09]

devinheitmueller:

hmmm... Does MythTV report that the recording failed?

[18:54:25]

wagnerrp:

in the logs

[18:54:30]

devinheitmueller:

Ick.

[18:54:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

devinheitmueller: I think it's a bit of a stretch to say they would "just work" without configuration... MythBuntu (iirc) already has a 'gui' for remote selection that does most (if not all) of the setup 'automagically'...

[18:54:45]

wagnerrp:

yeah, other than that, the 0b file is the only indication of a failure

[18:55:06]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, the fact that the recordings didn't occur isn't MythTV's fault, but Myth could probably do a better job of reporting that the tuning request failed and nothing was recorded.

[18:55:10]

gbee:

devinheitmueller: this has been talked about many times in the past and at least two patches which did something similar were rejected because of the implementation, it's something I'd personally like to see, but it all hinges on how it's done

[18:55:35]

devinheitmueller:

gbee: I'll have to do a search and see what was done previously, and why it was rejected (to ensure I don't take the same approach).

[18:56:23]

devinheitmueller:

J-e-f-f-A: I haven't seen Mythbuntu's gui, but I would certainly like to try to make this work without requiring any configuration by default.

[18:57:21]

gbee:

devinheitmueller: Chutt/Isaac seems to be the one who knows how it shouldn't be done, although I don't know if he has a plan to do it the 'right' way ;) ivor was also talking about writing an input layer yesterday and there may be overlap

[18:57:52]

devinheitmueller:

possibly.

[18:58:05]

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[18:58:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

devinheitmueller: I think 1/2 of what you're proposing is an updated keyboard mapping that instead of using "P" for Play/Pause, perhaps uses "Ctrl-P", etc. And the 2nd half is creating a 'remote selection' gui that sets up the proper lircd.conf and .lircrc files for that remote to map to MythTV.

[18:58:58]

devinheitmueller:

The input layer is already working, and the kernel is generating the keystrokes – except by default it generates keystrokes for things like CHANNEL_UP, CHANNEL_DOWN, VOLUME_UP, etc, which MythTV does not know how to recognize. Even when I use the MythTV GUI to try to set the mappings, I cannot use the GUI and whack a button on the remote and have it be recognized.

[18:59:53]

devinheitmueller:

J-e-f-f-A: actually, what I'm proposing is that since Myth supports multiple keys for a given option, that the default map include both "P" and "KEY_PAUSE" be mapped for Pause/Play.

[19:00:10]

devinheitmueller:

(since the kernel already knows to generate the KEY_PAUSE for the remote that comes with the tuner.

[19:00:28]

devinheitmueller:

None of this would require lirc at all.

[19:00:57]

devinheitmueller:

This is about making it work out-of-the-box for all the tuners that come with remote controls and use the inputdev interface to generate the keystrokes instead of using lirc.

[19:01:09]

J-e-f-f-A:

devinheitmueller: ah, ok – that seems to makes sense.

[19:01:38]

devinheitmueller:

... and the remote controls already generate keys that are not going to conflict with the keyboard, so it shouldn't make the situation worse for anyone.

[19:04:02]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: j-rod has expressed a desire to do the same IIRC

[19:04:02]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: that shouldnt require any changes

[19:04:50]

wagnerrp:

multiple keys are supported for a single action, in a comma-separated list

[19:05:12]

wagnerrp:

(according to http://mythtv.org/wiki/Keybindings_table anyway)

[19:05:12]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: The extent of changes I foresee is a modification of the default map, and adding the code to MythTV to know about the non-standard keys the input subsystem is generating (so that for example you want to redefine the key you can use the GUI and hit the button on the remote and it be properly recognized).

[19:05:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Yeah, that's what I thought. ;-) (Was just verifying through mythweb before saying that...)

[19:06:03]

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[19:06:13]

devinheitmueller:

For example, right now I know that my remote control generates KEY_CHANNEL_UP if I hit that button the remote, but if I go into the MythTV GUI and attempt to define that button for the "Channel Up" mapping, it isn't recognized.

[19:06:47]

wagnerrp:

ah, no idea what extra would have to be added to support those non-standard keys

[19:07:23]

devinheitmueller:

I assume there's a table somewhere which maps the scan code to a textual representation that is shown in the UI.

[19:07:41]

j-rod:

devinheitmueller: yeah, that is on my todo list...

[19:08:06]

j-rod:

makingb input keys mapped buy default

[19:08:20]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: do you actually forsee yourself doing it anytime soon?

[19:08:27]

Dagmar:

lirc would need to send the signals to X instead of Myth

[19:08:29]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: that's not intended to come across as an insult or anything.

[19:08:32]

Dagmar:

X already has keysyms for most of this

[19:08:41]

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[19:08:41]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: its bypassing lirc entirely

[19:08:51]

wagnerrp:

these are things the individual drivers are sending to X

[19:08:52]

j-rod:

yeah, no lirc involved at all

[19:08:52]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: these signals come straight from the kernel input subsystem.

[19:09:02]

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[19:09:02]

Dagmar:

Oh this is about one of those "remote is a keyboard" monstrosities?

[19:09:04]

j-rod:

devinheitmueller: I plan to poke at it again this weekend

[19:09:11]

j-rod:

I'm using my new pure input imon driver on my frontend box

[19:09:17]

Dagmar:

That's definitely an X needs to handle the keysyms proeprly issue

[19:09:18]

wagnerrp:

except its not standard keyboard keys

[19:09:25]

j-rod:

so only left, right, up, down and select actually work on my remote right now

[19:09:28]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: ok, well if you were planning on doing it in the immediate future, then I obviously don't want to duplicate the work.

[19:09:35]

wagnerrp:

its non-standard scan codes

[19:09:38]

j-rod:

which is my kick in my own pants to fix this :)

[19:09:41]

Dagmar:

Multimedia keys are seldom standard, but regardless, X has had keysyms for them for years and years

[19:09:46]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: yeah, that's prety much where I am at.

[19:10:05]

Dagmar:

Most of hte cheap ones I've bought used all the same scan codes for the "obvious" buttons like play, stop, etc

[19:10:07]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: in the kernel, many of the v4l tuner drivers ship with a remote control, and the mapping is defined to automatically generate the keys.

[19:10:07]

Dagmar:

Thank god

[19:10:23]

wagnerrp:

and apparently myth will not accept them

[19:10:33]

Dagmar:

devinheitmueller: Yes, which basically makes them a "fancy keyboard which is unfortunately not correctly handled under Linux" in my eyes

[19:10:42]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: correct.

[19:10:53]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: but I suspect it won't be that hard to add the additional keys to Myth.

[19:10:59]

j-rod:

devinheitmueller: however... if you've got an inkling to work on it, I could focus my attention elsewhere, like reposting lirc drivers for staging... :)

[19:11:03]

Dagmar:

Folks can always come up with a working keymap for them

[19:11:08]

devinheitmueller:

They *are* handled properly in Linux, but the application has to know how to interpret htem.

[19:11:33]

Dagmar:

So you're telling me that Myth doesn't know what to do when X passes it the keystroke-code for "play"

[19:11:48]

j-rod:

that is correct

[19:11:51]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: correct. There is actually a scancode called "KEY_PLAY"

[19:11:57]

j-rod:

KEY_PLAY does not get interpreted at all

[19:11:59]

Dagmar:

Yes, I know of the scancode

[19:12:00]

devinheitmueller:

... and MythTV doesn't know what to do with it.

[19:12:09]

Dagmar:

Why doesn't myth know what to do with it?

[19:12:10]

j-rod:

heh

[19:12:21]

j-rod:

because nobody has written support for it to do so yet

[19:12:30]

Dagmar:

Id' have thought support for multimedia playback buttons on keyboards would have gone into myth from the start since X handles the parssin

[19:12:33]

devinheitmueller:

It is not mapped to the play function in Myth, nor does the configuration GUI recognize it so you cannot configure play to map to that scancode.

[19:12:35]

j-rod:

hence the reason devin and I are both looking at it

[19:12:36]

Dagmar:

er parsing

[19:12:52]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: do you know specifically where the map is in the mythtv code?

[19:13:08]

devinheitmueller:

(the scancode to name map, not the map of keys to functions)

[19:13:10]

j-rod:

one sec, lemme dig up my notes and the tree where I started poking...

[19:13:41]

Dagmar:

wow crazy heh

[19:14:00]

j-rod:

devinheitmueller: mythtv/libs/libmythui/mythmainwindow.cpp, look for QEvent::KeyPress

[19:14:06]

** devinheitmueller looks **

[19:14:37]

j-rod:

I had a debug build somewhere that printed out all the native scancodes it received

[19:14:45]

j-rod:

but the output was... odd.

[19:14:47]

gbee:

sorry, I said ivor instead of j-rod earlier didn't I?

[19:15:03]

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[19:15:06]

j-rod:

all unrecognized keys wound up spitting out the same native scancode value

[19:15:10]

j-rod:

iirc

[19:15:12]

devinheitmueller:

hmmm....

[19:15:16]

** J-e-f-f-A thinks gbee did it on purpose... ;-) **

[19:15:26]

j-rod:

then I got distracted by other shiny objects

[19:15:41]

j-rod:

broadcom finally releasing the crystalhd code caught me a bit off guard

[19:15:46]

devinheitmueller:

nice.

[19:15:59]

j-rod:

I'd been lulled into thinking it might never happen

[19:16:00]

gbee:

for some reason I frequently confuse Ivor and j-rod

[19:16:02]

** J-e-f-f-A cheers for Brodcom getting off their rear-ends... ;-) **

[19:16:27]

J-e-f-f-A:

"Broadcom" even... hehehe

[19:17:42]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: I don't think I'm seeing what I'm looking for, but will have to look closer later.

[19:19:38]

devinheitmueller:

I went through a real nightmare getting the IR to work over the weekend. Now that I finally did get it working though, I can see what a PITA it is to get the mapping correct for what should be straightforward.

[19:20:21]

j-rod:

yup. Its easy! Except when it isn't...

[19:20:33]

j-rod:

which smirl doesn't seem to entirely understand

[19:21:33]

** j-rod has to go prep the next rhel5 interim build now... **

[19:21:41]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: thanks, ttyl.

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[19:59:07]

possy:

hello, and good evening

[19:59:24]

possy:

We ( LinuxMCE ), want to enhance our users setup experience even more, and would like to prefill as much information as possible into mythconverg without the need for the user to see mythtv-setup. Right now we have two questions: 1) Where can we find details on which tables to fill with channels.conf information 2) What tables are getting LNB information. At the moment we do fill in the DVB-x cards already.

[20:00:17]

possy:

any one care to supply us a pre-configured database dump, so we could re-engineer the data? preferably with a single LNB / DVB-S system and an Astra 19.2 setup, so we can test it right away.

[20:00:31]

Dagmar:

You could always _set one up yourself_ and then dump it

[20:00:39]

Dagmar:

I know it sounds crazy, but it might actually work

[20:01:00]

possy:

Dagmar, ;)

[20:01:01]

Dagmar:

Or you could just read the source code

[20:01:27]

possy:

One of the reasons why I hate MythTV (and use VDR personally) is my dumbness to setup MythTV via MythTV setup. hence my hope.

[20:01:57]

Dagmar:

Your hope that someone else will essentially write another mechanism for configuring mythtv for you?

[20:02:16]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar: Take it easy

[20:02:22]

iamlindoro:

This is why nobody likes working with us

[20:02:25]

possy:

Dagmar, no. My hope is, that we LinuxMCE, will have a way to pnp the stuff.

[20:03:06]

possy:

we are very thin on devs, and it would help us tremendously if the person doing the pnp stuff (who is in the us without access to satellite cards used in europe) would have the data already setup

[20:03:09]

Dagmar:

possy: SEriously mythtv-setup is pretty straightforward, although scanning to popuate the thing on dvb is not

[20:03:15]

iamlindoro:

possy: You will likely need to read the source to get the info you want, *but* I have an alternative to suggest

[20:03:25]

possy:

iamlindoro, I am all ears.

[20:03:40]

possy:

Dagmar, the scanning is what is kicking in my butt right now on my testcore.

[20:03:48]

Dagmar:

It's kicking everyone's butt

[20:03:53]

Dagmar:

It ain't just you

[20:03:54]

wagnerrp:

pulling out your replacement setup UI?

[20:03:54]

iamlindoro:

possy: You could sponsor one of the Myth devs to do the work that we have hoped to do for a while, namely a web setup that you could easily wrap

[20:04:14]

iamlindoro:

possy: Which would include simple setup, sanity checking, and as much autodetection as is possible

[20:04:26]

possy:

iamlindoro, good idea. You do know, that we are volunteers ourselfs, don't you?

[20:04:33]

possy:

We have no commercial backing at all.

[20:04:34]

devinheitmueller:

that's an interesting point – perhaps rather than writing your own setup utility and channel scanner, it might make sense to fix whatever is broken in Mythtv's channel scanner.

[20:04:53]

possy:

devinheitmueller, there already is a (imho) very good scanner (w_scan)

[20:04:55]

iamlindoro:

possy: Sure, but I'm saying you'd be writing a mechanism to support what is essentially abandoncode

[20:04:55]

wagnerrp:

possy: actually you (pluto) have sponsored dev work for mythtv in the past

[20:05:04]

devinheitmueller:

possy: w_scan actually has a whole slew of bugs.

[20:05:09]

possy:

wagnerrp, I know, that Pluto sponsored danielk

[20:05:19]

devinheitmueller:

most of the channel scanners have various bugs. That's why you just have to pick one and fix it up.

[20:05:22]

possy:

wagnerrp, pluto is no more.

[20:05:38]

Dubstar_04:

iamlindoro: just had a play with MNV pretty good so far

[20:05:38]

devinheitmueller:

(so why not fix mythtv's channel scanner rather than switching to some *other* buggy channel scanner)

[20:05:41]

wagnerrp:

ah, their website is still up, i figured they were still around too

[20:05:45]

possy:

devinheitmueller, I have had good success with using w_scan as an initial source for channels in VDR

[20:06:04]

iamlindoro:

possy: If you want something that a) is simple and b) will be code you can support into the future, the best and only solution is a collaboration or sponsorship to do the solution the project has settled on (the backend web setup)

[20:06:14]

gbee:

I'm not actually aware of many tickets open for scanning issues with 0.22, have these 'bugs' been reported?

[20:06:45]

wagnerrp:

possy: anyway, most of the code is just filling defaults, which could be copied directly

[20:06:49]

devinheitmueller:

possy: Yes, just like I had good success using Mythtv's channel scanner as an initial source here. The reality is that the different channel scanners have different bugs, largely based on your locale and what card you are using. Just because a particular scanner happened to work for you while another did not is not indicative of their relative quality.

[20:06:59]

Dubstar_04:

iamlindoro: can internal player handle streaming from the web?

[20:07:04]

wagnerrp:

you could do auto-detection for various tuner types to populate those tables

[20:07:04]

iamlindoro:

Dubstar_04: no

[20:07:13]

wagnerrp:

and you could dictate where users are going to store stuff

[20:07:26]

wagnerrp:

the only thing that you really cant automate is the scan

[20:07:38]

possy:

we do that already (the store stuff) and the setup of the input card itself.

[20:07:44]

iamlindoro:

Dubstar_04: We *may* end up with MMS and/or RTSP support sometime in the future, but that depends on upstream (ffmpeg)

[20:07:49]

possy:

It works for PVR based systems and hd home run it seems.

[20:08:05]

possy:

we still miss that stuff in DVB country

[20:08:08]

iamlindoro:

possy: It would be sooooo much better if there was actual collaboration/support on both sides to do a proper solution

[20:08:16]

possy:

iamlindoro, of course

[20:08:22]

iamlindoro:

possy: Otherwise you guys are going to be forever playing catch-up

[20:08:34]

wagnerrp:

mythtv does some sort of enumeration of those devices already, but it doesnt auto-populate anything

[20:08:40]

possy:

Unfortunately, the person who would be perfect for that, is danielk, which seems to have different things on his mind right now.

[20:08:48]

devinheitmueller:

possy: I would strongly encourage you to *not* port to some other channel scanner if you don't know the first thing about the internals of how channel scanning works. It will only make the situation worse.

[20:08:57]

iamlindoro:

possy: danielk is not the only one who could accomplish it

[20:09:13]

possy:

iamlindoro, most probably correct.

[20:09:31]

possy:

Ok, thanks for all your input, I have stuff to think about, and might return later on.

[20:09:45]

iamlindoro:

possy: would be far better to get a strong, active developer on your side who cares about it, and a similar minded person on our side, and possibly some financial support, and get it done right

[20:09:49]

possy:

It would be very nice to execute scanning from the outside, just as a note.

[20:10:12]

iamlindoro:

Which one could with the backend HTML/XML based setup

[20:10:14]

devinheitmueller:

possy: Mythtv already supports importing a channels.conf, so you can use whatever scanner you want and then import the results.

[20:10:14]

possy:

iamlindoro, of course, unfortunately, we do not have any financial backing at all.

[20:10:33]

wagnerrp:

there was some discussion about this a few months back, doing away with mythtv-setup entirely, and accessing those routines remotely across mythproto

[20:10:36]

iamlindoro:

possy: Then the alternatives are a) constantly be chasing the Myth code, or b) do it right, with a) being annoying and untenable

[20:10:55]

wagnerrp:

which would be for the web setup

[20:10:55]

possy:

devinheitmueller, I know. if I import a channels.conf it hangs right now. because probably I do something stupid. But I will get it working tonight, and have some data we can work on. Thank you everybody.

[20:11:11]

possy:

cu later

[20:11:35]

gbee:

file a bug

[20:16:06]

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[20:17:37]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: Let's not get into the habit of just assuming that everything I say is meant to hurt feelings. I actually knew who possy was

[20:18:00]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar: Frankly, it doesn't matter. It gives the absolute wrong impression of this channel

[20:18:11]

Dagmar:

I was trying to find a better way than saying "This whole scanning thing is effed"

[20:18:36]

iamlindoro:

We can't afford to just let people abuse each other here any more, and you two were/aren't the only ones in the channel.

[20:18:57]

Dagmar:

I wasn't even trying to abuse him

[20:19:08]

Dagmar:

I didn't finish what I was expressing before ya jumped in there

[20:19:12]

iamlindoro:

This channel is notorious for treating people, and not to be rude, you're a great big part of it.

[20:19:19]

iamlindoro:

people poorly, that is

[20:19:32]

possy:

Dagmar, iamlindoro, I can take it. I have a big poster here: Bite me, hit me, shoot me.

[20:19:39]

iamlindoro:

I've tried to put it kindly in the past several weeks, but if you can't be nice, you shouldn't be here

[20:19:49]

Dagmar:

possy: No dude, I knew exactly what was going through your head and why

[20:19:54]

iamlindoro:

possy: That's fine, it's still our channel rules, new as enforcing them might be

[20:20:02]

possy:

ok.

[20:20:05]

Dagmar:

I don't blame you in the least for omcing here about that

[20:20:19]

possy:

omcing?

[20:20:20]

Dagmar:

The scanning thing is messed

[20:20:28]

Dagmar:

bleh typos... coming here about that

[20:20:35]

possy:

ok.

[20:20:45]

possy:

We will have a solution.

[20:23:16]

Dagmar:

I hope so. It's been a mess consistently over the last two years

[20:23:31]

possy:

What specifically?

[20:23:49]

Dagmar:

Bugs in the various grabbers and cards drivers

[20:23:56]

possy:

ah, ok.

[20:24:20]

Dagmar:

s/grabbers/scanners/;

[20:25:01]

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[20:25:46]

Dagmar:

Compared to the other issues that would crop up, that one would be a fourteen foot marble wall

[20:26:34]

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[20:29:19]

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[20:29:53]

dorgan:

would this work with myth? And I am assuming that I would have to buy two...that two dont come in one package

[20:30:17]

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[20:31:08]

possy:

ok, got it going. It helps to use the correct starting frequency...

[20:31:18]

iamlindoro:

dorgan: where this = ?

[20:31:31]

dorgan:

lol 1 sec sorry

[20:31:36]

dorgan:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122259

[20:32:13]

xand:

it's a network thing, don't see how it's related to mythtv exactly

[20:32:22]

Dagmar:

Just the same, you'd need two

[20:32:26]

iamlindoro:

Depends on what you hope to accomplish-- one or two client watching television across it would be doable, probably, depending on the quality of your power lines

[20:32:36]

xand:

I would have thought it came in a pair?

[20:32:37]

dorgan:

its a brand new housr

[20:32:42]

xand:

but dunno

[20:32:51]

Dagmar:

Newegg doesn't mess around

[20:32:59]

Dagmar:

If hte picture shows one of something, that's all you get

[20:33:37]

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[20:33:57]

Dagmar:

xand: You might assume that, but what if you had _three_ connections to make

[20:34:06]

Dagmar:

Buying them in pairs would be an issue

[20:34:25]

xand:

yeah, didn't think of that

[20:34:57]

dorgan:

so i would have to guy two

[20:34:58]

dorgan:

ok

[20:37:12]

gbee:

those powerline adapters are expensive and I'd suggest a last resort

[20:38:06]

iamlindoro:

Running Cat5 is very satisfying in the end, too, and way, way, way faster/less prone to issue

[20:38:18]

Hoxzer:

yes!

[20:38:48]

gbee:

and some are known to emit RF interference (violating the law, but no-one seems to care), you might just find that they cause a problem with your TV reception

[20:40:23]

Dagmar:

Recertified for $40 isn't actually that bad

[20:41:18]

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[20:41:32]

Dagmar:

dorgan: If you own the house the costs of installing Cat5e/6 is probably tax deductible

[20:41:33]

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[20:41:40]

gbee:

vs a couple of nics, a switch and two lengths of cat5, well I know where I'd put my money

[20:42:30]

gbee:

well you'd already have the nics of course, so those don't even count towards the cost

[20:43:00]

justinh:

possy: the scanning part of setup could be much better documented but it really needs people who know the respective areas well enough or it'll end up just another pointless wiki page ;-)

[20:43:27]

possy:

justinh, my question was more directed towards it being usable from within a script

[20:43:43]

justinh:

and fwiw it's admirable to attempt to pre-configure as much as you can but digital stuff tends to shuffle around a lot in Europe :-\

[20:43:54]

possy:

I know... ;)

[20:43:54]

gbee:

the new scanner has a command line interface

[20:44:20]

possy:

gbee, oh – is "new" == 0.22 or later?

[20:44:25]

gbee:

yes

[20:44:39]

possy:

thanks – /me goes and does some googleing

[20:44:39]

justinh:

the big thing that can hit users in my experience is a hole in knowing that the default timeouts aren't optimal for every tuner in the wild

[20:44:39]

gbee:

I've never used it or even looked at it, but it's there

[20:45:28]

justinh:

another is that for some godforsaken reason when offsets are used, some tuners won't find a bean in a full scan

[20:45:34]

gbee:

possy: not aware of any documentation, Daniel added it when he created the new scanner and I was too busy to review the commit

[20:45:36]

Dagmar:

justinh: And there's also the whole "how reliable is each look at a frequency" issue

[20:45:36]

possy:

imho it would be nice to give the user the ability for a simple setup, i.e. a single DVB-C card, and allow to have the system up and running without asking a technical question.

[20:45:42]

iamlindoro:

justinh: Once of several reasons I'm biding my time for the day devinheitmueller can take a hard look at all that setup and scanning stuff

[20:45:51]

Dagmar:

I keep seeing people who say they've got to scan twice for their tuner to actually pick up all channels

[20:46:05]

possy:

gbee, thanks, I might contact danielk direct, if I can't find the stuff.

[20:46:09]

justinh:

possy: heh everybody thinks they're the first to think that ;-)

[20:46:11]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, a simple setup, what fun that would be, if only someone would work on such a thing

[20:46:19]

iamlindoro:

It would be sure to be accepted

[20:46:22]

** iamlindoro drinks **

[20:46:24]

possy:

justinh, i am sure, lots of people thought about that.

[20:46:36]

possy:

and Pluto did do a nice job for the older setups.

[20:46:40]

Dagmar:

I don't think it's possible to make that into a "simple setup" operation without removing a few of the wildcards from possible configurations

[20:47:00]

Dagmar:

Wildcards like "got only knows what tuner" and "god only knows where they are in the world"

[20:47:05]

justinh:

a few of us have seen how nice MCE setup is in terms of being so wizard driven. that it doesn't actually work for squat is by the by

[20:47:16]

Dagmar:

...although just limiting the first one in scope would have massive effect

[20:47:25]

Dagmar:

justinh: It's the reason I know who possy is

[20:47:41]

possy:

see, everybody knows me, but I don't know anyone :(

[20:48:07]

Dagmar:

I saw your name in conjunction with linuxmce a lot last year when I started looking to see if anyone else had a decent solution for scanning

[20:48:28]

justinh:

wscan may 'work' but wow is it ever slow for dvb-t

[20:49:13]

justinh:

if I'd been able to nail why full scans on dvb-t work on one of my tuner types but not the other I have we might get somewhere with that

[20:49:39]

justinh:

can only guess there's something different in the drivers somehow since they're different chipsets

[20:49:41]

possy:

You guys already saved my day, by pointing out, that the MythTV scanner has a commandline interface

[20:50:23]

justinh:

possy: you could in theory drive it all with a wizard asking about services & location but you'd have a job on your hands keeping the info up to date

[20:50:32]

Dagmar:

Yep

[20:50:39]

possy:

justinh, that was my basic thinking.

[20:50:44]

justinh:

it'd have to go online, which won't suit everybody

[20:50:45]

possy:

we already ask for location

[20:50:54]

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[20:51:03]

possy:

we already know the DVB type

[20:51:07]

Dagmar:

The stuff changes so much it would be someone's full time job just to update the database you pull the info from

[20:51:14]

ivor:

gbee: i'm not writing no input layer.....

[20:51:16]

ivor:

:)

[20:52:16]

iamlindoro:

double negative

[20:52:20]

iamlindoro:

so when will it be done?

[20:52:51]

gbee:

ivor: heh yeah, mix up ;)

[20:54:38]

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[20:54:45]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: yeah, the whole scanning situation is a mess. Some of it is cards that don't quite conform to the spec but "basically work" (but things like timing bugs and issues with auto parameter selection bugs are exposed during scanning). Some of it is perhaps not the best defaults for things like the timeouts (which causes issues with the slower cards). And some of it is bugs in the scanning software itself.

[20:54:50]

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[20:55:47]

devinheitmueller:

That said though, I don't think that MythTV's scanner is worse than any of the others, and in fact it does work in some cases where other scanners like w_scan have problems (because they both have non-overlapping sets of bugs). So I wouldn't endorse the idea of "throw away the mythtv scanner and use w_scan because it's somehow better".

[20:55:49]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: I definitely know anything you can add to help us improve the situation would be highly appreciated

[20:56:27]

Dagmar:

I'll require discriminatory treatment of tuner cards

[20:56:27]

iamlindoro:

I don't want to throw away Myth's scanner, but I *would* like to see it become dead-easy to use, and with some nominal degree of confidence in its accuracy

[20:56:49]

devinheitmueller:

It's trickling up my list of priorities. I ran a scan on Sunday with my PCTV 800i, and I definitely had a few cases where I looked at the results and said "WTF".

[20:57:22]

justinh:

how many other scanners can actually do a full scan without resorting to lookups? not many :)

[20:57:59]

devinheitmueller:

It's true that the "killer feature" of w_scan is that it can do blind scanning (no need for a frequencies input file). But it has plenty of other bugs that offset that value.

[20:58:20]

janneg:

scanning would be easy if the cable providers would make use of the DVB/ATSC specs or are at least not outright violating the specs

[20:58:23]

justinh:

devinheitmueller: I tried it once. I literally fell asleep waiting

[20:58:57]

justinh:

janneg has hit the nail on the head though

[20:59:26]

janneg:

satellite and terestrial too of course but cable providers are the worst

[20:59:27]

iamlindoro:

janneg: As much as I'm sure that's true, we have some major interface quirks and downright bugs in the scanner that seem no closer to getting fixed

[20:59:38]

justinh:

I wouldn't bet my house on any DVB using provider being bang-on the spec

[20:59:42]

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[20:59:43]

gbee:

the UI for scanning could be improved, I've a couple of ideas towards that end but not the time at the moment

[20:59:50]

iamlindoro:

And it would be nice to get to the point where fouled-up implementations were our only worry

[21:00:10]

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[21:00:26]

devinheitmueller:

janneg: yeah, the providers doing funky things definitely makes it harder (I ran into those issues when I did the ATSC scanner for Kaffeine)

[21:00:34]

iamlindoro:

right now we have no documentation for the scanner, so when the new one tells someone scanning on a fresh database with QAM that they have 195 duplicate channels of four types, I have no idea what to tell them

[21:01:11]

gbee:

justinh: the UK comes pretty close in my experience, but then it's because they're driven by a culture of openess and aren't trying to restrict which equipment can tune their channels

[21:02:04]

devinheitmueller:

We're back to Postel's Law.

[21:02:05]

janneg:

my cable provider and DVB-T in germany are also almost good

[21:02:41]

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[21:02:47]

devinheitmueller:

One thing that would be nice is if we can get the command line scanner into the default build with a reasonable level of logging, we should be able to take cases where someone reports "unexpected output" and determine why it came to that conclusion.

[21:02:53]

justinh:

I'm gonna have a look at the differences between my other dvb-t tuners again soon. it's still bugging me

[21:03:02]

devinheitmueller:

It won't help in cases where no results were returned, but will help in cases where we misinterpreted the data.

[21:03:06]

janneg:

The only issue I saw before 0.22 here was too short default timeouts

[21:03:39]

devinheitmueller:

Generally speaking the goal should be accuracy over speed, and given the state of all the different cards, we should almost certainly be picking a longer default timeout.

[21:03:46]

devinheitmueller:

if I recall, it's 500ms by default to lock.

[21:03:49]

janneg:

devinheitmueller: we have commandline scanner, it's unfortunately completly undocumented

[21:03:58]

possy:

janneg, correct

[21:04:01]

devinheitmueller:

janneg: does it get bundled into the distro?

[21:04:06]

iamlindoro:

janneg: unlike the UI scanner, which is.. erm.. completely undocumented ;)

[21:04:09]

justinh:

janneg: one of my tuners does a full scan great (uk dvb-t using offsets) – the other doesn't get a lock on any frequency during the scan – but do a tuned scan on a known mux & it locks as fast as anything. it's weird

[21:04:13]

possy:

janneg, and looking at the source, it seems to very restrictive

[21:04:17]

gbee:

devinheitmueller: it's part of the mythtv-setup binary

[21:04:23]

gbee:

so yes

[21:04:29]

devinheitmueller:

gbee: ah. good to know.

[21:04:30]

possy:

mythtv-setup --scan

[21:05:32]

justinh:

janneg: they're entirely different chipsets – so possibly driverish but this is the kind of thing users might run into on a day to day basis – which is why I spent a week experimenting with it. didn't come to any conclusions though

[21:05:34]

gbee:

restrictive?

[21:05:40]

devinheitmueller:

I can think of a number of ways we can improve this situation – the big issue at this point is they all require "effort".

[21:05:44]

janneg:

iamlindoro: well, I don't have to look into the source for using the UI scanner

[21:05:56]

Dagmar:

I has no deesh

[21:06:15]

janneg:

which I need if the have no mythtv-setup -scan in my commandline history

[21:06:34]

possy:

gbee, I can't find a way to specify details for the scan, like I can do in the window.

[21:06:57]

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[21:07:07]

gbee:

one moment we're talking about making scanning simple, then suddenly complaining that the command line scan doesn't support a wide array of arguments ;)

[21:07:10]

iamlindoro:

janneg: True-- But the UI is still returning a bunch of what I would call "debug prompts"-- If *I* don't know what it's asking when it does a scan with a new DB and it says my QAM channels contain hundreds of dupes/overlaps of four different types (DVB/QAM/MPEG/SCTE), the average newbie is likely to have a headache

[21:07:25]

possy:

gbee, two different things.

[21:07:45]

possy:

gbee, if the cli would work, the frontend could be for example a web interface or something.

[21:07:59]

janneg:

my plan for years have been to somehow integrate the initial tuning files from dvb-apps into the scanner

[21:08:04]

possy:

it is easier for people to type in a cli command, than to follow what button to press

[21:08:11]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: Oooh that's right... Which QAM tuner card are you using again?

[21:08:54]

gbee:

for most purposes they are not, if "mythtv-setup --scan" just goes off and completes a full scan for each source without user intervention then _that's_ simple (it almost certainly doesn't, but that's what we should work towards)

[21:08:55]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar: In the one case where I've seen it, an HVR-1250-- but there are open bugs from others and many reports on the users list of same with various drivers/chipsets/hardware

[21:08:59]

skd5aner:

Dagmar: reading back in the thread, why would installing Cat5e/6 be eligable for a tax deduction?

[21:09:10]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: you're seeing scanning problems with the 1250?

[21:09:15]

** devinheitmueller ears perk up... **

[21:09:22]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: No, the card/drvier are great

[21:09:28]

Dagmar:

skd5aner: Home improvement

[21:09:37]

justinh:

heh a friend of mine has just releases his RTOS

[21:09:37]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: no, I mean you are seeing scanning problems with the 1250?

[21:09:50]

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[21:10:01]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: It's the prompts returned by mtyhtv-setup that are an issue-- namely that it purports to find overlapping channels (hundreds of them) on a fresh scan

[21:10:12]

devinheitmueller:

hmmm....

[21:10:20]

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[21:10:23]

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[21:10:25]

iamlindoro:

and then presents the user with a string of gobbledygook (yes, I'm aware it's actually informative, but NOT to the average user)

[21:10:40]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, there is definitely something going on with the duplicate prompts.

[21:10:44]

gbee:

iamlindoro: some of that is just very bad wording, it's not quite what it sounds like and causes confusion

[21:10:44]

devinheitmueller:

I saw that on Sunday too.

[21:10:46]

skd5aner:

it's only eligable for a tax deduction if it's an approved energy/efficiency home improvement – the list is relatively finite

[21:10:55]

skd5aner:

would be nice if it was though :)

[21:11:35]

skd5aner:

er, that is for US Federal Tax deductions – locate states might have home improvement deductions that vary

[21:12:14]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: which cable company are you on again?

[21:12:42]

skd5aner:

or – maybe as a "business expense" if it's used for work and you work from home, IANAA :)

[21:12:55]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: Comcast-- to be honest I've just been using scte65scan, which kills me because I am so loath to use external scripts/tools as I strongly believe we should be handling things well ourselves

[21:13:07]

devinheitmueller:

sure.

[21:13:49]

iamlindoro:

But truthfully, the average user should be prompted (in a perfect world) for location, signal type, and that's about it on a fresh DB

[21:14:14]

Dagmar:

No, I'm serious. Ethernet in the home is just as "essential" now as plumbing, cable, and phone lines.

[21:14:16]

gbee:

two modes, simple and advanced

[21:14:18]

iamlindoro:

If the user has no channels in the DB, then there should be no reason for them to answer literally hundreds of prompts at the end of a properly set up scan-- that's *our* bug

[21:14:46]

Dagmar:

Besides which for as little as it costs, the IRS isn't going to question it unless you slept with an auditors wife or something

[21:14:52]

skd5aner:

Dagmar: you may be serious, but essential utilities aren't considered a tax deduction

[21:15:05]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: In fairness, I saw duplicates being reported on my ATSC scan, and I have a much higher level of confidence that the data coming OTA is not malformed.

[21:15:06]

Dagmar:

Not the utilities. The infrastructure.

[21:15:09]

gbee:

iamlindoro: agreed

[21:15:19]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: (and if it is, I actually know who to talk to). ;-)

[21:15:23]

Dagmar:

Having to replace all your plumbing would wind up being deductible

[21:15:47]

gbee:

lets face it though, all we're doing now is talking :)

[21:15:51]

Dagmar:

Replacing crap phone wire with cat5e/6 falls into the same category of stuff

[21:15:55]

skd5aner:

the infrastructure is what I meant, but if you can find where those items are deductable, I'd be happy to take a look

[21:16:12]

iamlindoro:

gbee: You know that I'm 100% willing to put in the work where I'm able-- if I had the slightest notion of where to start, I'd do it

[21:16:33]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: I must have missed it, which qam card are you using?

[21:16:54]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar: This is multiple users, multiple cards, multiple drivers, on multiple cable systems

[21:17:03]

iamlindoro:

In my particular case an HVR-1250

[21:17:07]

skd5aner:

Dagmar: not saying you are wrong, just that I haven't heard that – would be curious if it was true

[21:17:12]

Dagmar:

Ah okay

[21:17:25]

gbee:

iamlindoro: of course, many of us are, unfortunately we're also busy or lack the requisite knowledge of the scanning code

[21:17:51]

Dagmar:

skd5aner: Pretty much anything that will increase the resale value of a home counts as a home improvement.

[21:18:15]

gbee:

I've not touched the scanning code for 4 years and even back then my work consisted of a series of hacks designed to allow the scanner to work for UK DVB-T

[21:18:23]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Heh, guess I could take all the scanning tickets, milestone them to .23 and assign them to the people who know ;)

[21:18:41]

Dagmar:

Most people are just running 1–2 drops tho, and doing this requires filing a substantially more complex tax return than one might otherwise file

[21:18:50]

** devinheitmueller deregisters his email address from the mythtv trac... **

[21:19:01]

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[21:19:03]

janneg:

I just moved my production system to trunk. are problems with the mythvideo db backup known?

[21:19:21]

iamlindoro:

janneg: What problem in particular?

[21:19:35]

Dagmar:

I "know" it, but I frankly assumed it was because there was some last-hop setup stuff I hadn't done tat it was expecting

[21:19:35]

GreyFoxx:

I just did a update yesterday with no problems

[21:19:36]

janneg:

I got "ICE default IO error handler doing an exit()"

[21:20:05]

janneg:

which could be just a compiler problem if ICE == internal compiler error

[21:20:15]

iamlindoro:

I think that's actually a ubuntu home directory bug thingie?

[21:20:17]

Dagmar:

Nope. That's X's ICE

[21:20:26]

dmz:

anyone every try running huludesktop on a via machine?

[21:20:46]

janneg:

it's a gentoo system

[21:21:02]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: It carped pretty much every time it could yesterday when I was upgrading. I don't think it's a a shortcoming in Ubuntu's environment

[21:21:30]

Dagmar:

It would probably be better if that code did more than just giving up and emitting a generic message

[21:21:30]

iamlindoro:

janneg: Still pretty sure it's not related to the MythVideo upgrade, but let me know either way if you find anything out

[21:22:33]

janneg:

the normal db backup from mythbackend went without problems

[21:23:43]

sphery:

janneg: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6257#comment:4

[21:24:31]

sphery:

janneg: I think it just means the $HOME/.ICEauthority file has the wrong perms

[21:24:35]

janneg:

should be using the same code, only difference is that mythfrontend is a gui app and mythbackup is cli

[21:24:38]

sphery:

you can remove it and things should work

[21:25:03]

sphery:

though when whatever changed the perms to be wrong changes them again, it will break again

[21:25:28]

sphery:

I'm guessing your ~/.ICEauthority is 600 perms with an owner of root?

[21:26:00]

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[21:26:55]

sphery:

and, yeah, the X ICE stuff only affects GUI apps

[21:26:59]

janneg:

no, 600 with $(id -u)

[21:27:38]

sphery:

for now, try just removing it

[21:27:46]

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[21:27:46]

sphery:

(it will get recreated for next session, anyway)

[21:28:31]

Dagmar:

I hope not

[21:28:44]

Dagmar:

I thoght that stuff got moved to a tmp-stick directory in /tmp a long while back

[21:28:54]

sphery:

may well be

[21:29:02]

sphery:

maybe I should say, "if needed"?

[21:29:05]

Dagmar:

I'm far from certain about that since it's been a year since I've looked

[21:29:14]

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[21:29:15]

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[21:29:28]

Dagmar:

It definitely always got auto-resurrected correctly tho

[21:29:36]

tmkt:

hey hey

[21:29:51]

sphery:

right, that being the key--if needed it will get created where necessary

[21:30:21]

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[21:31:01]

sphery:

I don't use a session manager, so I've /never/ had a problem with .ICEauthority :)

[21:31:15]

sphery:

though that's not a fix I'd recommend to others

[21:32:37]

elmojo:

for any one interested looks like VideoRedo just released their frame accurate h.264 cutter application -> http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=15759

[21:32:54]

janneg:

yes, worked now. thanks

[21:32:59]

elmojo:

works with HD-PVR recordings

[21:33:39]

sphery:

janneg: the real fix is figuring out what app is breaking the file (perms or possibly even content) and fixing that app... Unfortunately, that's easier said than done. :)

[21:33:52]

sphery:

It shouldn't be Myth, though

[21:35:11]

sphery:

ICE is the X Inter-Client Exchange protocol, which is primarily used by the X Session Management Protocol

[21:35:29]

sphery:

elmojo: windows only?

[21:36:20]

sphery:

wonder what license... if FOSS, perhaps it's a good start...

[21:36:25]

elmojo:

yes... not sure if it works under wine or not

[21:36:38]

elmojo:

sphery: not it's closed source commercial product

[21:36:43]

sphery:

:(

[21:36:57]

sphery:

but at least there's something at there

[21:36:59]

elmojo:

I find all the FOSS ones are quite lacking... gave up on them a long time ago

[21:37:11]

elmojo:

even for MPEG-2 cutting

[21:37:13]

sphery:

yeah, I'm just hoping to see one before too long

[21:37:25]

devinheitmueller:

"Necessity is the mother of invention."

[21:37:29]

sphery:

I've found mythtranscode to work very well for lossless MPEG-2

[21:37:55]

sphery:

and the "necessity" part is what I'm lacking

[21:37:57]

elmojo:

sphery: and I haven't found it to work very well at all... A/V sync issues, doesn't handle errors very well, etc

[21:38:08]

sphery:

(with the cost of HDD's today, I find any transcoding is completely unnecessary)

[21:38:28]

j-rod:

devinheitmueller: back now... I have a pair of links to relevant Qt documentation that is related to this input mess, if you want. (they're actually from gbee)

[21:38:35]

elmojo:

sphery: how much storage are you upto now?

[21:38:43]

** j-rod notes that dealing with embargoed patches really sucks... **

[21:39:06]

sphery:

well, I don't use it a lot--mainly when I have to cut off the extra I put in a recording to counteract football or presidential-speech overruns or whatever

[21:39:22]

sphery:

so it may not be as good as I thought, and I may have just been lucky

[21:39:33]

sphery:

j-rod: from Cuba?

[21:39:41]

janneg:

only slim and xfce were running beside mythfrontend. the file was from today. only noticeable thing is it's size: 95k

[21:39:46]

sphery:

weren't they thinking of lifting the embargo?

[21:39:49]

elmojo:

sphery: cutting the ends are probably OK... it's when you rip parts from the middle that things go bad

[21:39:59]

sphery:

ahhh

[21:40:01]

j-rod:

heh. nah, Raleigh and/or Beijing, by way of Germany

[21:40:11]

sphery:

heh

[21:40:15]

iamlindoro:

elmojo: I cut commercials out of the stuff I archive with mythtranscode without too much issue

[21:40:18]

j-rod:

or maybe its vice versa, from Germany, by way of Raleigh and Beijing

[21:40:43]

iamlindoro:

elmojo: veeeeery occasionally a recording will refuse to be cut, but it's at least still the exception

[21:40:50]

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[21:40:50]

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[21:41:01]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: you know how I am about "too much issue" hassles.... it needs to work right all the time

[21:41:32]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: I've been using VideoRedo for years and I've _NEVER_ had one problem

[21:41:46]

sphery:

there's been this new guy around who's submitting a bunch of patches on the video stuff in Myth... perhaps he'll take a look at it. :)

[21:41:50]

elmojo:

you get what you pay for sometimes :)

[21:41:54]

janneg:

j-rod: security patches?

[21:42:11]

j-rod:

yeah, CVE stuff

[21:42:20]

** iamlindoro volunteers elmojo to make mythtranscode magic again **

[21:42:32]

iamlindoro:

since Mythtranscode's maintainer has disappeared

[21:42:34]

** elmojo runs away **

[21:42:41]

iamlindoro:

(though he did pop up for the first time in three years this week)

[21:42:46]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: yeah, I took a couple of minutes and traced it far enough to realize that it's buried in QT.

[21:43:20]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: in all seriousness that kind of software needs full time development... it took the VideoRedo over 3 years to finally release the h.264 cutter

[21:43:51]

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[21:44:26]

iamlindoro:

elmojo: Something will pop up in linux eventually-- I had hopes that the playlist/append/joining stuff from last year's GSoC would result in an actual API for that kind of thing, but it seems not to have

[21:44:34]

iamlindoro:

in ffmpeg, that is

[21:45:53]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: it will be interesting to see what happens on that front... I'm a bit skeptical given that a solid solution hasn't been created for MPEG-2 yet much less H.264

[21:46:11]

j-rod:

devinheitmueller: http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qkeyevent.html and http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qt.html#Key-enum

[21:46:56]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: yeah, that's pretty close to what I came up with, although I ended up with the 3.3 version of the docs.

[21:47:00]

j-rod:

about as far as I got was to add quint32 nscode, nvkey; and spit them out

[21:47:12]

j-rod:

nscode = ke->nativeScanCode();

[21:47:23]

j-rod:

nvkey = ke->nativeVirtualKey();

[21:47:59]

devinheitmueller:

Are you proposing submitting a patch to QT to add the additional keys with their labels, or are you thinking we would just extend the class with the Linux specific entries?

[21:48:00]

j-rod:

but again, from what I recall, all the unknown/unhandled keys all ended up with the same nscode and nvkey

[21:48:45]

j-rod:

my hope was that we'd get unique native scan codes for each, then be able to simply map them within myth, no need to update qt

[21:49:15]

devinheitmueller:

Well, you need more than just the native code – you need the label associated with it (KEY_CHANNELUP = 0x1010)

[21:49:21]

j-rod:

its possible I was doing something wrong somewhere

[21:49:34]

devinheitmueller:

(so that the label can be properly shown in the GUI, written to the conf file, etc)

[21:49:36]

j-rod:

yeah, for that part, I'd include input.h

[21:49:54]

j-rod:

inside an ifdef __LINUX__ or whatever is approproate

[21:50:32]

devinheitmueller:

Does input.h actually have a function to translate the #define to a textual label?

[21:50:36]

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[21:50:47]

j-rod:

I ... can't recall

[21:51:28]

devinheitmueller:

I don't think it does.

[21:51:49]

devinheitmueller:

... but that does have me wondering how applications refer to the codes by their text name (and whether they all have some constant lookup table)

[21:51:56]

j-rod:

the X server generally does though, doesn't it?

[21:52:14]

devinheitmueller:

Well, the input layer doesn't require the x server.

[21:52:23]

aputerboy:

i just posted a similar query on the mailing list but maybe i can get some real time help here — i am finding that running the frontend on a windows machine works fine UNTIL I pause playback at which point it sucks 99% of cpu effectively hanging until I kill it

[21:52:31]

j-rod:

yeah, just thinking of the xf86mute labels and whatnot...

[21:52:37]

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[21:52:38]

devinheitmueller:

... but perhaps the x11 library has a utility function or something...

[21:53:06]

j-rod:

I know evtest.c uses a lookup table

[21:53:36]

j-rod:

(that happens to be out of date, doesn't include KEY_NUMERIC_x)

[21:54:00]

devinheitmueller:

yeah, that is really the problem I think – all these apps maintain their own table.

[21:54:02]

Dagmar:

X just treats multimedia keys like any other keys, once it recognizes the scancodes from the keyboard driver, afaik

[21:54:25]

j-rod:

s/keyboard driver/input subsystem/

[21:54:46]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: yeah, that is correct – but there are cases where things like configuration tools refer to the scan codes by their textual representation rather than the underlying scan code number. And we were discussion how that conversion takes place.

[21:54:56]

Dagmar:

Ah

[21:55:05]

j-rod:

but X lags behind the kernel here. X also doesn't know about KEY_NUMERIC_x yet.

[21:55:17]

j-rod:

and we're talking pretty recent X

[21:55:23]

devinheitmueller:

yup.

[21:56:00]

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[21:57:31]

aputerboy:

Does anybody here run the frontend on windows?

[21:58:40]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: Generally speaking, no. Windows isn't really considered one of the supported platforms-- it'll compile and run, but it doesn't enjoy much dev support

[21:59:17]

aputerboy:

it's actually cool and nice to be able to run from my (non-linux) laptop

[21:59:33]

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[21:59:36]

aputerboy:

where can I get help on a bug though — should I try the #mythtv node?

[21:59:45]

iamlindoro:

not unless you're writing code

[22:00:08]

iamlindoro:

If you have a bug, you can file a bug, #mythtv is for development specifically being done by you

[22:00:47]

justinh:

oh crap. wife wants to go & see avatar

[22:00:49]

aputerboy:

ok – just before i filed a bug report just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something dumb

[22:01:25]

Dagmar:

Hmm... looks like those scancodes X knows about don't extend to handling 0–9 on a remote. That suuuuucks.

[22:01:32]

Dagmar:

That's going to require an xmodmap

[22:01:49]

J-e-f-f-A:

aputerboy: Well, running windoze may qualify as 'doing something dumb'... hehehehe ;-)

[22:02:09]

elmojo:

justinh: I hear it's really good pretty much by everyone

[22:02:26]

justinh:

I've sick to death of hearing about it to the point I resolved to never see it

[22:02:30]

aputerboy:

i don't disagree

[22:02:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: I liked it. We saw it in 3D – was great.

[22:03:15]

Dagmar:

Actually... @#$@# that won't help either

[22:04:09]

kormoc:

justinh: http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/e . . . lot-fail.jpg

[22:04:48]

justinh:

I've no doubt that on every visual level it's stunning but that isn't what's gonna get me to fork out a tenner

[22:05:13]

justinh:

plus it'd be kinda cool to be the only person left in the world who's never seen it :D

[22:06:29]

j-rod:

sorry, I haven't either

[22:06:48]

j-rod:

and don't plan to, at least, not in the theater

[22:07:01]

Dagmar:

Geez looks like Myth will have to read the scancodes directly from the event device to get anywhere on this

[22:08:06]

Dagmar:

suuuck

[22:08:51]

j-rod:

kormoc: hahahaha, nice

[22:09:01]

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[22:10:36]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: Myth actually *is* getting the input events – it just doesn't know what to do with them – and the UI for mapping input events to functions is broken because it doesn't recognize the code.

[22:11:11]

Dagmar:

What is it getting? I thought it would be getting the symbols as translated by X's keyboard driver

[22:11:54]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: There is no X involved here. It gets the input event (a numeric code). Then Mythtv relies on QT to translate that numeric code to an event string (which fails because the mapping isn't present).

[22:12:05]

Dagmar:

...and after looking at the xkeysymdb here, there's nothing in there that would appear to be like special multimedia-button versions of 0–9

[22:12:50]

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[22:13:06]

Dagmar:

I'll go read up on wtf Qt is doing in that

[22:13:15]

j-rod:

man. I really need to read failblog more often.

[22:13:30]

devinheitmueller:

If you look at /usr/include/linux/input.h, you will see the codes. MythTV receives 0x192 but doesn't know that translates to "KEY_CHANNELUP"

[22:13:58]

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[22:14:31]

devinheitmueller:

... so when you go into the mythtv UI to define what key is associated with "Channel up", and you go to the remote and generate a KEY_CHANNELUP event, the code gets dropped on the floor.

[22:15:15]

devinheitmueller:

In theory, we should just need to add the additional entries to some table, except that table is currently buried in Qt, so it would be a PITA to add without having to wait the eons for it to trickle down into MythTV.

[22:15:31]

devinheitmueller:

... not to mention the portability issues with the fact that those codes are Linux specific.

[22:16:47]

Dagmar:

I was under the impression that X translated that stuff and passed it to the apps. I didn't realize Qt was just bypassing all that and going directly to the input layer

[22:17:15]

AndyCap:

justinh and j-rod : http://i.imgur.com/KPSJo.jpg

[22:17:28]

Dagmar:

We're still talking about the case of the fancy USB MCE remotes that make everything look like you have an HID keyboard, right?

[22:17:33]

gbee:

devinheitmueller: iirc unknown keys are flagged as such by QT, we can create our own table for those and it's not a huge deal to have different tables for each platform

[22:17:49]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: I'm talking about the remote controls that typically ship with the tuner cards.

[22:18:02]

justinh:

arghh my eyes!

[22:18:07]

Dagmar:

Ah okay

[22:18:19]

Dagmar:

No wonder I'm confused. That's even less tractable

[22:18:31]

Dagmar:

justinh: It's Avatar, in 3d. ;)

[22:18:32]

gbee:

BUT I've not been following this conversation, so I apologise if that's already been covered or isn't relevant

[22:18:38]

devinheitmueller:

So for example, when you buy a HVR-1600, it comes with a Hauppauge remote.

[22:18:47]

j-rod:

however, that may well also be the case for mceusb transceivers w/their stock remotes as well

[22:18:52]

j-rod:

in the shiny new future

[22:18:59]

devinheitmueller:

gbee: if you know the mechanics of how that table is defined, that is what we need to figure out.

[22:19:31]

gbee:

AndyCap: can I just second justinh's "arghh my eyes", that gave me an instant headache

[22:19:37]

j-rod:

gbee: problem I ran into, is that it looked like every unknown key wound up with the same native scan code

[22:19:51]

j-rod:

only briefly really had time to poke though. :\

[22:20:17]

gbee:

btw, since someone mentioned Avatar, am I the only one who isn't rushing to the cinema? It looks pretty stupid to me

[22:20:36]

gbee:

j-rod: ah, ok that's a problem

[22:20:37]

kormoc:

gbee: you, justinh, and j-rod

[22:20:46]

_ben:

i'm not gonna bother seeing it

[22:20:53]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Haven't seen it, though I keep *planning* to with friends

[22:21:01]

** jams is waiting for dvd **

[22:21:30]

j-rod:

gbee: I may have done something wrong though, need to poke it a bit more, but I swear all the unknowns has the same code, all the known ones had unique ones

[22:22:08]

AndyCap:

Well, I found my anaglyphic glasses, and I can say, The Goggles, they do nothing!

[22:22:15]

gbee:

in fairness to Cameron, I've thought lots of films looked stupid and only when I catch them accidentally on TV a few years later have I realised I was wrong

[22:22:18]

** J-e-f-f-A was dragged there with his Son, and thought it was good, and the 3D effects were not 'overdone'... **

[22:22:20]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: In the future, please open tickets with an e-mail address

[22:22:35]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: There is nothing more obnoxious than closing genuine tickets because you can't get in touch with the author

[22:22:52]

iamlindoro:

well.. there are a few things more obnoxious

[22:22:58]

aputerboy:

ok – sorry – are the email addresses protected or are they open to spammers?

[22:23:10]

gbee:

aputerboy: only the devs can see the email address

[22:23:15]

iamlindoro:

They only appear to the deve....yeah

[22:23:35]

aputerboy:

ok – is there a way for me to add my email?

[22:23:52]

iamlindoro:

You can add a comment and put in your e-mail in the appropriate box

[22:24:17]

aputerboy:

just did that

[22:24:35]

gbee:

aputerboy: Click Preferences in the top right of the screen, enter your name and email, it will be remembered (cookie) so you don't need to re-enter it for each ticket

[22:25:29]

gbee:

and as a bonus, filling out the email in 'preferences' will reduce the chances that your ticket is rejected by the spam filter

[22:25:41]

aputerboy:

works for me

[22:26:28]

aputerboy:

maybe someone should add a prominent line on the submittal page saying email addresses only visible to devs

[22:26:50]

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[22:26:54]

iamlindoro:

We already have a prominent ticket howto that everyone ignores on that page ;)

[22:26:55]

aputerboy:

cuz otherwise i tend to only add emails if protected or sometimes if forced

[22:27:03]

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[22:27:11]

iamlindoro:

better still if we just start requiring trac registration

[22:27:27]

aputerboy:

of course — that's why i suggested the line there – and even if i read the howto, I would still probably have skimmed it and skipped the email address line

[22:28:06]

aputerboy:

but i have been impressed by how helpful and activel this group is

[22:29:13]

_ben:

what? no one has bitten your head off yet?

[22:29:14]

_ben:

;)

[22:29:49]

** gbee gives _ben a stern stare **

[22:30:02]

aputerboy:

lol – i caused some interesting philosophical discussion the other day with my question about cloning frontend settings (and then worse by providing a script ;)

[22:30:13]

J-e-f-f-A:

!trout _ben shame on you!

[22:30:13]

** MythLogBot slaps _ben with a shame on you! trout on behalf of J-e-f-f-A... **

[22:30:27]

Dagmar:

Generally someone has to express a lack of functional literacy and a refusal to even attempt such a feat before things turn ugly

[22:30:30]

Dagmar:

He's done neither.

[22:31:03]

gbee:

aputerboy: jams already wrote an extension to mythfrontend to do exactly that, but you may already know that

[22:31:10]

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[22:31:18]

iamlindoro:

He knows that, he wrote a long e-mail deriding it

[22:31:33]

aputerboy:

lmao – yes i did – but i did it in pure spirit

[22:31:53]

aputerboy:

but i did take the time to look at the code at least

[22:32:11]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: If you think it's missing something, it would be best to take that up with jams

[22:32:25]

th1_:

does anyone want to help me debug why the "Display Recordings" screen loads so slowly on my frontend?

[22:32:36]

iamlindoro:

because we (well, me, but as a Myth dev) would really really prefer people weren't doing DB manipulation with outside scripts

[22:32:37]

aputerboy:

be happy to help -

[22:32:50]

** gbee senses there is some history here **

[22:33:12]

jarle:

th1_: I see the same thing after upgrading to 0.22

[22:33:21]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: One Myth dev spent literally hundreds of man-hours on the transition to .22 fixing the things people had done to foul up their databases with external scripts and manipulation

[22:33:24]

th1_:

jarle, same for me

[22:33:35]

gbee:

jarle: using nfs or samba?

[22:33:42]

iamlindoro:

That's hundreds of hours that could have been devoted to real worthwhile work

[22:33:43]

** J-e-f-f-A hasn't experienced that... **

[22:33:48]

aputerboy:

are you against scripts or just against outside ones that are hacked up in a day using a mixture of bash, *nix utils, and sql queries by someone who is learning on the fly?

[22:34:06]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: Both, but the latter to a much greater extent

[22:34:20]

jarle:

gbee: no, not for the recordings

[22:34:21]

gbee:

th1_, jarle: if a remote frontend, can you check if the directory ~/.mythtv/remotecache exists and contains all the preview images?

[22:34:39]

aputerboy:

because personally, i would prefer a script to a gui — but i agree it's best if it's centrally developed and maintained

[22:34:51]

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[22:34:52]

jarle:

gbee: same for local and remote frontend..

[22:34:53]

jams:

what did i miss?

[22:35:06]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: on a basic level because they don't track changes in myth, and then the whole ton of people who dig them up in the mailing list archives and try to use them when we change the DB have broken databases/schemas

[22:35:07]

jams:

saw a couple highlights on my nic

[22:35:16]

th1_:

gbee, it comtains 7 old ones timestamped last night when I was experimenting, but no new ones from todays session

[22:35:19]

aputerboy:

partly because when it's part of the gui, i find that 90% of the coding and debugging effort goes into the gui rather than into the functionality

[22:35:31]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: So while your script may work today, it may very well be a cause of hundreds of hours of dev time cleaning up after it a month from now

[22:35:33]

jarle:

th1_: do you also see "%subtitle" and other stuff while the page is loading?

[22:35:41]

th1_:

jarle, sometimes

[22:35:55]

th1_:

jarle, can't remember if it was %subtitle but something with % that looked weird

[22:36:02]

aputerboy:

iamlindoro – i see your point – but one could tie the script to the schema so that it only works on the schema it is released for

[22:36:07]

jarle:

th1_: I see it every time..

[22:36:08]

gbee:

th1_: that's odd, it should contain copies of all preview images (but may not if you are mounting the recording directory using NFS instead of streaming)

[22:36:08]

iamlindoro:

jams: aputerboy feels your settings plugin is lacking and would like to explain why

[22:36:14]

jams:

ah

[22:36:15]

jams:

ok

[22:36:34]

aputerboy:

hey jams!!! – nice to meet you

[22:36:35]

th1_:

gbee, that's what I changed around that time

[22:36:41]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: You don't know our users very well, then, as 90% of them will just change the supported schema version and run it

[22:36:42]

th1_:

problem is there iwth and without the NFS directories mounted

[22:36:58]

aputerboy:

but then that is THEIR fault right

[22:37:01]

gbee:

jarle: well on that basis alone I think you can't be using latest -fixes

[22:37:13]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: it being their fault doesn't stop them making it *our* problem

[22:37:15]

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[22:37:24]

aputerboy:

or i could add an md5sum signature in some obscure code lol

[22:37:34]

gbee:

or maybe not, I forget whether the template changes were backported

[22:37:36]

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[22:37:36]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: just as all the corrupted databases last go-round became our problem

[22:37:40]

jarle:

gbee: correct, Its apx 2–3 months old I guess..

[22:37:52]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: anyway, explain to jams what you feel his plugin is missing

[22:38:26]

aputerboy:

jams – have you been following the discussion about cloning/deleting/backing-up frontends that I had the misfortune to start?

[22:38:40]

jams:

read the first emails then gave up

[22:38:42]

aputerboy:

there is a thread this past week on the users list

[22:38:55]

jams:

saw the script thats about all i can say

[22:39:41]

aputerboy:

lol – anyway before knowing about ur code or knowing about the sensitivity about 3rd party scripts, i wrote the script — which admittedly is a total hack (but could easily be rewritten much better in perl now that I have done it once as a bash/sed/sql hack)

[22:39:55]

th1_:

gbee, there is a slight difference with and without the NFS mounted. WITH the NFS mounted it takes a long time (10–20s) before the "frame" of the recordings screen even shows, and then another 20–30 for it to be filled out

[22:40:07]

aputerboy:

so Michael Dean suggested instead of writing scripts i look at your code – which i did

[22:40:14]

jams:

k

[22:40:17]

th1_:

gbee, WITHOUT nfs mounted it shows the "frame" of the page almost at once and then it takes about 20 seconds for it to be filled

[22:40:18]

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[22:40:50]

th1_:

gbee, and then it has created 2 files in the remotecache dir (but one is only 800 bytes)

[22:41:05]

gbee:

hmm, something is definitely fubar

[22:41:07]

th1_:

there are 6 thumbs visible on the screen so it didn't save all of them

[22:41:30]

aputerboy:

and it seems that there are some limitations that could cause problems that i detailed in http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/417837#417837 – please don't take my comments though as negativity about your efforts

[22:41:44]

th1_:

gbee, should I try enabling some trace in the frontend?

[22:41:58]

jams:

k reading it now

[22:42:28]

th1_:

gbee, btw I don't think it's the NFS in itself that's slow because after revamping my server with ext4 and latest kernel it's pretty snappy for everything else I do on the nfsroot box

[22:42:39]

th1_:

also it streams DVD's and even high bitrate HD without hiccups

[22:43:10]

wagnerrp:

for some reason mythtv is detecting my database as schema 1247, and then trying to update it to schema 1226

[22:43:40]

aputerboy:

jams – sorry for the rambling tone

[22:43:44]

gbee:

th1_: networked file systems can be slow when you are fetching a lot of small files, or are concerned about things like file modification times

[22:43:47]

wagnerrp:

this happened last time i upgraded too, and i ended up manually walking through the schema upgrade

[22:44:00]

th1_:

gbee, yeah but it happens even without that one mounted

[22:44:08]

th1_:

I guess the root is NFS too so it could be related

[22:44:52]

gbee:

last modification date issues are one of the http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/1 causes of nfs related problems

[22:45:16]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Heh, your trac ticket number translation works in reverse

[22:45:37]

jams:

well after reading all that it can be summed up with 1) missing jumptables and displayprofiles. Which is true

[22:45:50]

gbee:

iamlindoro: yeah, it's actually configured that way, I just forget from time to time ;)

[22:46:11]

gbee:

th1_: I'm not saying that nfs is the cause of all your problems, but it at least seems to make them much worse

[22:46:38]

th1_:

gbee, it's just that this worked fine in 0.21

[22:47:18]

gbee:

doesn't mean anything, code has changed

[22:47:25]

aputerboy:

jams – actually more important than that in the long run — is that it misses tables added by plugins (which my code does too though I added a warning that scans for other hostname mentions)

[22:48:31]

aputerboy:

jams – basically it seems to me (though a newbie) that without a well defined notion of what frontend settings are, where they are stored and which ones are host-specific, it will be hard to write general code that catches it all

[22:48:35]

gbee:

what's meaningful is that just jarle and you have reported problems, none of the devs have seen problems and we had no reports during the months of testing in trunk, so if it's a code issue it's a remote corner case

[22:49:23]

th1_:

gbee, it'd sure still be nice to find out why :)

[22:49:27]

aputerboy:

jams – so that is not as much an issue with your code per-se as much as it is with what you (and I) are trying to do if we want to do it robustlly

[22:49:46]

jams:

yeah i see the point.

[22:50:06]

jams:

99% of that stuff is in the settings table.

[22:50:07]

gbee:

th1_: sure, and if it's a problem with the code, fix it too :) I'm running out of ideas however

[22:50:42]

th1_:

I'll try to mount tmpfs file systems on the places where mythtv might write and see if it makes a difference.. like in /tmp, /var/tmp and .mythtv

[22:50:52]

aputerboy:

jams – of course – but the gotchas are in the exceptions – for example mythweather adds it's own table with hostname column

[22:50:58]

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[22:51:22]

jams:

it's probably not easy to spot but I introduced the concept of HOSTblahblah to show which setting truely is host specific and should not be cloned

[22:51:47]

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[22:51:58]

aputerboy:

and my point (which seems to run against the grain) is that at least with a script, Joe newbie probably won't be running it but if it's in the GUI then every soccer mom will be playing with it and then will wonder months later why her settings are missing

[22:52:48]

aputerboy:

jams – that would be cool but is that concept going to be a requirement for all plugins?

[22:53:11]

Dagmar:

th1: At the moment I couldn't tell you wtf to do it, but there _is_ a way to make NFS log all reads/writes

[22:53:28]

jams:

eh don't know. All I know is that the concept is there

[22:53:31]

Dagmar:

th1: If you can find it, it may help explain WTF Myth is doing that's suffering so much from NFS's involvement

[22:55:16]

aputerboy:

jams – i think it is a GREAT concept – but would need to be enforced. Also, you need to deal with the potential that someone writes a plugin (or adds tables to core) that are interconnected like displayprofiles/displaygroupprofiles – because then you could really screw things up in some potential situations where you duplicate the hostname but don't adjust the ids

[22:55:56]

th1_:

Dagmar, I guess tcpdump would do

[22:55:59]

th1_:

or wireshark

[22:56:11]

th1_:

anyway I tried with mounting those tmp dirs and it didn't help at all

[22:56:16]

th1_:

on to Dagmar's solution

[22:56:51]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: Point being if someone changes myth code and it affects an official method of doing something, it gets fixed. If something changes that breaks joe user's DB script of horrors and it destroys someone's schema, sphery gets to spend a month working full time to fix it four months later

[22:57:46]

jams:

aputerboy- far as gui vs cmdline I think both are required. Using the cmline with only a remote isn't all that feasible.

[22:57:51]

j-rod:

damn, 2.6.32 firewire code is SOLID, jay fenlason has done some (more) fantastic work on it...

[22:58:13]

** j-rod finally catching up on the firewire mailing lists after ignoring them for several weeks... **

[22:58:24]

j-rod:

ffado even works perfeclty now

[22:58:26]

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[22:58:44]

jams:

if a user doesn't want the gui it's pretty easy to remove from the menu

[22:59:01]

jams:

suppose could always hook up a pin to it, but that seems a bit much

[22:59:18]

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[22:59:49]

aputerboy:

jams – also I didn't look through the ui code so it may all be there – but it would be nice to have the following options: (1) backup/save (2) restore (3) change frontend name (4) clone frontend (5) delete frontend (6) list all settings in frontend — though some of these could be considered redundant depending on how you define the functionality

[23:00:08]

aputerboy:

oops by (6), I mean list all frontends in db

[23:00:51]

jams:

it's all there except change frontend name. That lives in another bit of code I have laying around here.

[23:01:15]

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[23:01:35]

aputerboy:

iamlindoro – ok – i didn't realize that plugins were that tightly integrated into mythtv – in that core is updated to make sure that it plays nicely with plugins (rather than vica-versa)

[23:01:58]

jams:

the version I have sitting here has even more then those 6

[23:02:26]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: Since we are responsible for all the code, breakage comes to light and is fixed quickly, and more importantly, we can take ownership for any breakage and don't resent having to fix it

[23:02:34]

aputerboy:

jams – cool – then it sounds like the key is the (2) things you mentioned plus checking other plugins (mythweather is one at least)

[23:02:44]

iamlindoro:

thus keeping us sweet on users and not irritated as hell at them

[23:03:15]

aputerboy:

iamlindoro – ok – i'm still learning the dev "culture" — in many other projects devs aren't so caring about plugins

[23:03:21]

jams:

aputerboy- I plan on reworking that patch to make it more mythuiish,so I will take a look at your sql.

[23:03:48]

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[23:03:51]

iamlindoro:

aputerboy: since we produce the plugins as well, we're just as concerned about them (and sometimes moreso, though it depends on which of us you ask)

[23:04:23]

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[23:04:28]

jams:

Not saying mine is better then yours or vice versa just different.

[23:04:29]

th1_:

Dagmar, it's just doing stat on a bunch of files, that's all that goes on the NFS port. The NFS server is responding within less than a millisecond to each of those. There is no other NFS traffic during the 20 seconds the screen loads.

[23:04:51]

jams:

actually it's been sitting open in a window for about 3 days now =)

[23:04:53]

aputerboy:

jams – ok – my sql code is not the prettiest because I was trying to do it all as a single batch query (piped through sed) so I ended up doing all types of hacks to get pseudo-control type structures that would have been much easier had i written the bulk of the code in a real programming language and just used sql for queries

[23:04:59]

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[23:05:20]

jams:

that would explain why it looked complicated (on first glance)

[23:06:00]

aputerboy:

jams – yup – i actually had fun trying to figure out how to do things like if/then and print statements etc. without using any stored procedures or external code

[23:06:49]

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[23:06:51]

possy:

Quick question on a warning message: DVBChan(2:/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0) Warning: Your frequency setting (11836000) is out of range. (min/max:950000/2150000) <-- where does the min/max value come from? Is that from the DVB driver, or is that set somewhere in Myth? (I can't find those values using mysqldump mythconverg

[23:07:02]

aputerboy:

but my code is definitely not for long-term use even as a script for those reasons – but it taught me enough about mysql and about the mythconver db to understand what needs to be done

[23:07:52]

jst:

Does anyone know who to specify a period in a custom recording rule (ex: program.subtitle REGEXP '(Washington|DC|D.C.)')?

[23:11:43]

gbee:

\. ?

[23:12:40]

th1_:

Dagmar, all: ok I got the reason for the first 9 seconds of it taking so long.. because it's sending to backend: "QUERY RECORDINGS Play" and hten it's 9 seconds before the backend responds with a long list of recordings

[23:13:55]

aputerboy:

jams – one more thing – i would add 2 other features if not there already (1) default to automatically backup database (2) refuse to make changes if there are any "unexplained" uses of hostname in the db – won't be foolproof but at least if a new table with hostname appears the program will do no harm

[23:14:07]

jst:

gbee, that doesn't work.

[23:14:35]

th1_:

so its nothing to do with NFS or not .. basically the backend takes 9 seconds to respond to that query

[23:14:49]

aputerboy:

btw – i have implemented #1 and #2 in my code (but #2 is only in a new version that I haven't posted)

[23:14:51]

Dagmar:

th1: So that would definitely be all about MySQL saying "FEED ME MOAR RAMS" probably

[23:15:16]

th1_:

Dagmar, my server has 4GB ram and 2.9GB being used for cache atm

[23:15:37]

th1_:

but maybe I need to change mysql settings that's a different story

[23:15:53]

gbee:

th1_: have you run optimize_mythdb.pl lately?

[23:16:16]

Dagmar:

You don't have mysql's tables on an NFS volume, do you?

[23:16:19]

th1_:

gbee, not really but I ran "optimize tables" from inside mythweb

[23:16:33]

th1_:

no they are on local ext4 raid1 with 2 sata drives

[23:16:38]

Dagmar:

Okay that's good

[23:16:53]

gbee:

the script version includes a repair, I don't know if mythweb does

[23:17:04]

Dagmar:

I suppose you coul get the bakcend to cough up the query it's making there and then go pass it to mysql manually and see if it's mySQL taking it's sweet time about gathering the data

[23:17:16]

Dagmar:

nine seconds is a lot of time

[23:17:30]

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[23:18:15]

jst:

Ahh, [[.period.]] works.

[23:18:17]

th1_:

Dagmar, do you have a test query I could run to get an idea if my mysql database is very slow?

[23:18:18]

th1_:

something that the backend might do internally in response to this?

[23:18:45]

th1_:

Dagmar, I'll enabled sql debug in the backend if its not recording right now...

[23:18:53]

Dagmar:

You don't need to worry about a test query. You shoudl be able to get yth to cough up the query _it's_ using (which would be the best query) by restarting the backend with some extra options

[23:18:55]

th1_:

ok its idle..

[23:19:31]

Dagmar:

-v all would do it but I'm pretty sur esomeone else will cough up a more specific verbosity flag for this

[23:19:40]

Dagmar:

There was a semi recent change to get it to log the queries it makes

[23:21:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

maybe -v database ???

[23:21:31]

Dagmar:

Probably so

[23:21:34]

th1_:

--verbose database

[23:21:45]

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[23:22:04]

Dagmar:

Depending on timestamping it might immediatley tell us something

[23:22:18]

th1_:

omg

[23:22:22]

th1_:

it does a huge amount of stuff

[23:22:25]

Dagmar:

Hhehe

[23:22:59]

Dagmar:

Dude if there wrne't serious use of RDB featurees in this I would be in here DAILY saying "WHY ARE YOU NOT USING BERKLEYDB FOR THIS LIGHTWEIGHT CRAP"

[23:23:09]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1_: Your networks is running at at least 100Mbps, right?

[23:23:30]

Dagmar:

it's a pet peeve of mine when people invoke MySQL just because they're too lazy to use a more efficient solution for their small-fry data

[23:24:35]

th1_:

it does a lot and lot of "UPDATE recorded SET filesize = '0' WHERE chanid = '72505' AND starttime = '2010-01–06T15:10:00' ;"

[23:25:17]

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[23:25:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1_: Do you have a bunch of failed recordings (empty files?)

[23:25:49]

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[23:26:02]

th1_:

J-e-f-f-A, no I have only good ones, I cleaned the database from them with the find_orphans script

[23:26:21]

Dagmar:

Wow

[23:26:43]

devinheitmueller:

possy: the frequency range is setup in the driver. The attempted frequency to attempt to tune is provided by the application. The fact that w_scan attempts to use out-of-range frequencies is one of the bugs in w_scan I was talking about.

[23:26:45]

Dagmar:

I think I'm setting a new personal record for "convoluted due to laziness"

[23:26:54]

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[23:27:04]

Dagmar:

Using a Slackware install on a VirtualBox VM to run mythtv-setup

[23:27:07]

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[23:28:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1_: Do you have mythweb setup? If so, go to the "Recorded Programs" page, then sort by file size and see if you have any recordings [still] with a size of just "B"... if so, either "Delete & Re-Record" or just "Delete" them...

[23:28:39]

possy:

devinheitmueller, the error message comes from MythTV after the initial scan in MythTV was successful (no w_scan usage at all)

[23:28:49]

th1_:

hmm

[23:28:58]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, yeah, I've seen mythtv do it to.

[23:29:01]

devinheitmueller:

s/to/too/

[23:29:21]

th1_:

J-e-f-f-A, there is *something* up because there are a total of 393 .mpg files in /pvr1 and /pvr2 and there are 598 records in recorded table

[23:29:24]

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[23:29:57]

possy:

I get all the channels scanned, but mythfilldatabase does not seem to run successfull, and I see the above message, hence my wondering where the max/min comes from, and how to change it. The frequency looks okay to me.

[23:30:07]

th1_:

J-e-f-f-A, ok in MythWeb there are also 598 recordings and all of them have non-zero file size

[23:30:07]

possy:

The 11xxx000

[23:30:13]

wagnerrp:

you know, ive been sitting here 3ft from the wireless router, and my connection has been intermittent all day

[23:30:19]

devinheitmueller:

The max/min is defined in the driver, based on the demod/tuner.

[23:30:26]

wagnerrp:

im completely baffled by people who think its a good idea to try to run mythtv wirelessly

[23:31:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: is your wireless router on top of your Microwave, and you're heating up your dinner? ;-)

[23:31:38]

wagnerrp:

no, but it is sitting on the opposite side of a 30" HP and a model M

[23:32:35]

devinheitmueller:

possy: And I somehow doubt that 11GHz is a valid frequency.

[23:32:45]

possy:

devinheitmueller, as this a warning only, I assume it should not cause mythfilldatabase to fail. I will continue my quest.

[23:33:22]

devinheitmueller:

The valid range for that tuner is 950MHz to 2.1GHz

[23:34:05]

possy:

this is a dvb-s2 card, btw. And I just wonder where this calculation mismatch is coming from.

[23:34:38]

possy:

I did provide the initial frequency for a known channel, it finds all the other channels, but somewhere, things get mixed up.

[23:35:32]

possy:

googleing brought me to this page, which (at the end) shows my problem: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/414576

[23:36:04]

devinheitmueller:

I would have to look at the code.

[23:36:34]

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[23:38:17]

possy:

I will try some more.

[23:39:40]

wagnerrp:

there, i just moved it up a couple feet above the other equipment, lets see if that improves things

[23:44:13]

th1_:

J-e-f-f-A, is RecordFilePrefix setting still used in 0.22? or using only the storage groups?

[23:44:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1_: TBH I'm not sure... ;-)

[23:44:54]

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[23:45:05]

th1_:

I have only 2 storage group directories and they are mounted in the same location on all my myth machines

[23:45:15]

th1_:

they are in /omega/pvr1 and /omega/pvr2

[23:45:22]

th1_:

some machines they are symlinks and others they are mounts

[23:45:29]

th1_:

should that be acceptable?

[23:46:12]

th1_:

they are only defined on master backend's settings and other machines don't have any set

[23:46:23]

th1_:

the slave backend for satellite tuners saves happily in those dirs

[23:47:02]

wagnerrp:

so long as theyre in the same place and writable on all backends

[23:47:05]

wagnerrp:

frontends dont matter

[23:47:11]

th1_:

they are

[23:47:21]

th1_:

one mounted as samba and one as NFS ;)

[23:48:03]

wagnerrp:

why samba?

[23:48:20]

th1_:

long story because the uids don't match on that one machine basically

[23:48:38]

wagnerrp:

so do a recursive chown

[23:48:46]

wagnerrp:

-R

[23:49:00]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1_: Yeah, as wagnerrp notes, you don't need the frontends to have network mounts anymore – with the possible exception of .ISO's or VIDEO_TS directories, which don't work in Storage Groups.

[23:49:03]

th1_:

no because the UIDs on that machine in passwd and group are already taken for different purpose

[23:49:16]

wagnerrp:

th1_: so fix them

[23:49:22]

th1_:

wagnerrp, I did by using samba

[23:49:25]

th1_:

it works flawlessly

[23:49:34]

wagnerrp:

and do a system-wide update of the owned files using find

[23:49:44]

wagnerrp:

thats a bandage, not a solution

[23:49:48]

th1_:

yeah

[23:49:56]

th1_:

its also only until I reinstall that last backend with debian

[23:50:02]

possy:

devinheitmueller, in case you are interested at mythbackend logfile: http://pastebin.ca/1751705 — it seems that mythtv-backend dies, but I have no idea why.

[23:50:24]

th1_:

my other 2 backends and 2 frontends now have debian

[23:50:35]

th1_:

ubuntu only on my netbook

[23:50:46]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1_: Yikes, how many backends are you running? /me just runs one with 5 tuners...

[23:51:13]

th1_:

J-e-f-f-A, my master backend is also my main server it has only got 2 pci slots because it's a rackie server

[23:51:14]

wagnerrp:

probably has framegrabbers, which require multiple machines

[23:51:39]

th1_:

then my other one is with 2 DVB-S2 cards and the last one has a single DVB-T and is also my frontend

[23:52:01]

th1_:

the master backend has 3 DVB-T tuners on 2 cards

[23:52:10]

devinheitmueller:

possy: awesome.

[23:52:25]

possy:

This does not sound like i did the right thing

[23:52:46]

devinheitmueller:

possy: you'll need to either break out gdb and debug it or see if you can find a mythtv developer willing to help you.

[23:52:55]

possy:

ok.

[23:53:04]

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[23:53:08]

possy:

thx

[23:53:11]

th1_:

anyway it does appear there are 200 recordings listed in the database that aren't in any of the directories

[23:53:51]

** possy is an idiot for not looking into the coredump dir first **

[23:54:21]

th1_:

366 valid recordings, 0 missing recordings

[23:54:39]

th1_:

but select count(*) gives 598

[23:54:55]

th1_:

so that gives 232 unaccounted for...

[23:56:13]

th1_:

ah

[23:56:17]

th1_:

it only checks from local host ...

[23:56:21]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1_: I've never used the 'find orphans' tool, so I wouldn't know how to help... The only thing I can think of is that the version of the find_orphans script you ran wasn't for 0.22....

[23:56:31]

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[23:56:35]

MNIchie_:

I just bought a hauppauge 950Q, both linuxTV and the myth wiki said that this card is supported. I am having problems scanning for channels though. Mythtv never finds any channels during the scan. Other programs, like kaffiene can find channels. Anybody have any ideas why this is doing this?

[23:56:37]

th1_:

its just a perl script but it only does "where hostname=" ...

[23:56:41]

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[23:57:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

th1: So perhaps you need to run it on each of your slaves as well? [not sure myself, just guessing]

[23:57:46]

th1_:

yeah

[23:58:18]

devinheitmueller:

MNIchie_: make sure you set the "no_poweroff" modprobe option for the xc5000 module.

[23:58:31]

MNIchie_:

I have already done that

[23:58:42]

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[23:58:44]

devinheitmueller:

And this is a digital scan?

[23:58:45]

MNIchie_:

The firmware is no longer constantly reloading

[23:58:49]

MNIchie_:

yes

[23:59:11]

Dagmar:

DOh! I'm screwed

[23:59:14]

J-e-f-f-A:

MNIchie_: I was going to say 'firmware', but if it's working in kaffiene, then you've already got any necessary firmware in place...

[23:59:14]

devinheitmueller:

hmmm.... The digital should be working...

[23:59:26]

Dagmar:

I totally didn't think about whether or not I had a channel changer that worked for this new digital cable box

[23:59:47]

devinheitmueller:

MNIchie_: you running the latest v4l-dvb code?

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