Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, December 4th, 2009, 00:08 UTC

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[00:28:40]

antgel:

sphery: haven't been reading the channel last couple of hours, but i saw 23:58 * sphery wonders how so many users have missing recording files

[00:28:56]

sphery:

wow, I know absolutely nothing about mythui and it took me all of 10sec to figure out how you would add a storage used bar to a theme

[00:29:02]

sphery:

iamlindoro: ^^^ them are some nice mythui docs

[00:29:09]

sphery:

antgel: yeah, any theories/

[00:29:21]

antgel:

on this system, just tried to watch something recorded on monday, and log ProgramInfo, Error: GetPlaybackURL: '7940_20091130210000.mpg' should be local, but it can not be found.

[00:29:31]

antgel:

sphery: is ^^ what you're referring to?

[00:29:50]

iamlindoro:

sphery, Nice :)

[00:29:52]

sphery:

is that a failed recording where the capture card didn't return any data?

[00:30:07]

sphery:

iamlindoro: bad part is it wasn't even for me (it was for a reply on list)

[00:30:19]

iamlindoro:

All good, information wants to be free

[00:30:24]

iamlindoro:

you know, like videos, and movies

[00:30:24]

sphery:

haha

[00:30:48]

sphery:

yeah, and MS Windows and Photoshop and AutoCAD and ...

[00:30:49]

antgel:

sphery: i have no idea. all i know is we scheduled something tried to watch it just now. i have all the logs if you can tell me where to look – maybe i should check the backend log at the time of the recording?

[00:31:22]

sphery:

antgel: the specific failure I'm mentioning would only be observable by its complete lack of failure in the logs

[00:31:43]

sphery:

i.e. if Myth thinks all went well, it recorded what the capture card gave it (even when it may have been given nothing)

[00:31:54]

sphery:

lack of failure messages that is

[00:32:10]

sphery:

i.e. the logs would show everything working normally--meaning that the failure was outside of Myth

[00:32:46]

antgel:

sphery: ah, i see. okay, so it's not the same. frick knows what happened here. backend log looks normal – "Finished recording Life"...

[00:32:59]

sphery:

but that may be it... Maybe in Jan (when I'll have some Myth time, again) I'll look into handling the "other" no-data failure (we now delete 0-byte recording files, but don't handle the file-was-never-created recordings)

[00:33:12]

sphery:

antgel: yeah, finished recording at the right time, right?

[00:33:18]

sphery:

if so, that could be what happened

[00:33:29]

sphery:

it recorded, but the capture card gave it nothing, so nothing was ever written

[00:33:41]

sphery:

but myth started and stopped the recording on time

[00:34:10]

antgel:

sphery: it finished at the right time according to the log. but i don't see why nothing would have been coming in – the DVB-S feed is stable now

[00:34:56]

sphery:

yeah, it may have been a "transient" capture card failure--and all was good once Myth reset it (when it tried the next recording)

[00:35:18]

sphery:

I also saw that type of thing when my channels changed around and needed a rescan

[00:36:00]

antgel:

sphery: hmm. any ideas how i can get more of a handle on this? i mean, i wouldn't mind, but it's my parents' system and if they lose a TV programme they go mad :P

[00:36:02]

sphery:

(but when it happened to me, it wasn't such a big deal because a) I manually delete, so I don't rely on autoexpire and b) I was using 0.21-fixes, so autoexpire worked fine even with missing recording files0

[00:36:25]

sphery:

only thing I can tell you is keep watching for a pattern

[00:36:45]

sphery:

sometimes the pattern is hard to see, but usually when you see it, it's obvious what's happening

[00:36:50]

antgel:

sphery: any mythbackend -v option useful here?

[00:37:39]

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[00:37:43]

_ian_:

hello ppl

[00:38:33]

antgel:

blimey. it's amazing how much dodgy stuff is in my logs

[00:38:41]

_ian_:

is it possible to limit the channel that can be access in one of a myth client?

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[00:40:24]

_ian_:

any tips from the gurus? :)

[00:40:32]

sphery:

antgel: no idea, but likely no--the failure seems to be happening outside of Myth

[00:40:41]

sphery:

so check dmesg and system logs

[00:40:53]

antgel:

sphery: but you're saying my problem isn't the problem you were referring to ^^^, no?

[00:43:19]

sphery:

it sounds like it was

[00:43:34]

sphery:

myth started and stopped recording on time, but got no data

[00:43:37]

sphery:

so nothing was written

[00:43:54]

antgel:

ah. is there a bug report yet?

[00:44:38]

antgel:

of course, if it's not a myth bug...

[00:45:51]

sphery:

exactly

[00:46:00]

sphery:

all myth could do is notice and log a message

[00:46:18]

sphery:

which I may eventually get around to adding to myth (if no one else beats me to it)

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[00:48:31]

antgel:

sphery: sorry for all the questions – is this a new phenomenon and how were you made aware of it?

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[00:51:13]

** mattwj20021 sleeps with the enemy **

[00:51:56]

mattwj20021:

hi guys

[00:52:09]

mattwj20021:

I just bought Windows 7 Ultimate Edition

[00:52:20]

Dagmar:

Betcha I paid less

[00:52:30]

mattwj20021:

I am trying out Windows Media Center and it isn't too bad

[00:52:41]

mattwj20021:

how much?

[00:53:05]

mattwj20021:

and mine is legal too ;)

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[00:55:54]

Dagmar:

Before shipping, $65

[00:56:14]

Dagmar:

of course, if I'd had the option of buying a cheaper version I would have

[00:56:49]

Dagmar:

I didn't know about the installfest debacle until after the release date, so I at least scored a couple copies of pro for free (for VMs)

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mattwj20021:

are you a student Dagmar?

[00:57:34]

Dagmar:

Newp

[00:57:39]

Dagmar:

I'm an admin-type at a Uni

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mattwj20021:

I figured something like that

[00:57:53]

mattwj20021:

:)

[00:58:30]

mattwj20021:

I bought an OEM copy

[00:58:32]

Dagmar:

I think my words to parts of management about it were along the lines of "If you guys are going to expect me to know it, then there'd better be a discount and a DAMN GOOD ONE at that!"

[00:58:54]

Dagmar:

The MSDNAA licence is a bit insane tho

[00:59:09]

Dagmar:

Someone who uses it has a more or less permanent licence to Windows 7, BUT...

[00:59:21]

Dagmar:

If they stop being a student, they can (whaat?) no longet get *updates* for it

[00:59:23]

anenigma:

is there anything in mythtv that will track what time a recorded program was meant to start, and then start playback at that time? say if I tell a program to start recording 15 minutes before the program actually starts, can I somehow get mythtv to default to start watching the recording 15minutes in, but leaving me the option to flick back if neccessary?

[00:59:50]

Dagmar:

anenigma: You need the julesverne.ko module for that

[00:59:58]

GreyFoxx:

no, there is nothing inmyth to do that

[01:00:25]

anenigma:

bugger

[01:01:35]

antgel:

"Allow live TV to move scheduled shows" – why would anyone want that setting to be switched off (the default)?

[01:04:09]

antgel:

also "avoid conflicts..." – if enabled, live tv will choose a tuner that is less likely to have scheduled recordings rather than the best card available... what does that mean in english?

[01:04:39]

mzb:

live tv will choose the lowest-priority tuner (afaik)

[01:05:08]

kormoc:

antgel: because if I leave live tv running all night, I'd rather it record the shows scheduled then the tv infomercials playing while I'm asleep?

[01:05:31]

antgel:

so "less likely to have scheduled recordings" == lowest-priority tuner?

[01:05:33]

kormoc:

antgel: and by default livetv will pick the highest priority free tuner, even if that means in 30 minutes/60 minutes there's a recording scheduled

[01:05:58]

kormoc:

antgel: with that option checked, it'll default to the lowest priority tuner, thus hopefully giving you the most non-scheduled playtime

[01:06:47]

antgel:

kormoc: i will parse your no-doubt-excellent replies in the morning when my eyes aren't closing – not the best time to "think myth". 'night all

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[01:07:20]

** mzb remembers to get more caffeine **

[01:07:39]

antgel:

mzb: it's a kludge and you know it!

[01:07:58]

skd5aner:

is there any way to set a tuner to specifically be the last tuner liveTV would try?

[01:17:13]

Dagmar:

Smear some pudding on it

[01:17:16]

Dagmar:

...or set it up last

[01:17:44]

kormoc:

skd5aner: set that option antgel said and set it to the lowest priority?

[01:17:54]

kormoc:

or rather, highest priority

[01:17:54]

mzb:

antgel, yeah, but takes me hours to wake up without it ;)

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[01:30:07]

iamlindoro:

K, don't get too excited as it's got a long, long way to go, but...

[01:30:08]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/streaming.ogg

[01:30:55]

iamlindoro:

Yes, Virginia, that's a generic framework for watching internet video, streaming it to the local system, and playing it with the internal player

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[01:31:40]

Dagmar:

Now do another one of those but type in the word 'titties'

[01:31:43]

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[01:32:22]

Dagmar:

That way we can see the first thing most new users will see.

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[01:37:40]

mzb:

iamlindoro, nice, will that include flash?

[01:38:05]

wagnerrp:

through a calling of mythbrowser, yes

[01:38:14]

wagnerrp:

and it Dagmar has his way, flesh too

[01:38:15]

iamlindoro:

^^ Yes

[01:38:26]

mzb:

great!

[01:38:38]

mzb:

I get unmetered bandwidth from: http://www.abc.net.au/tv/iview/

[01:38:50]

mzb:

(may not be visible for ~= .au)

[01:39:01]

iamlindoro:

You/someone would still need to write a script that conforms to the grabber requirements for that site

[01:39:05]

wagnerrp:

an aussie, with unmetered bandwidth? who would have thought...

[01:39:10]

mzb:

heh

[01:39:19]

wagnerrp:

i thought you guys were limited to a couple GB/mo

[01:39:34]

iamlindoro:

More or less I am using RSS 2.0 with a few custom items as the grabber format

[01:39:35]

mzb:

it's getting better all the time

[01:39:37]

sphery:

iamlindoro: it only works in Virginia? What about West Virginia?

[01:39:57]

iamlindoro:

sphery, Ew, you mean "stupid virginia?" No thanks!

[01:39:57]

mzb:

new cable came in from Guam recently, and my *nice* ISP doubled my allowance to 20GB

[01:40:08]

sphery:

you sound like 30 Rock

[01:40:12]

mzb:

(the lowest plan in the SOHO bracket)

[01:40:23]

sphery:

I hope that's on tonight--I miss it

[01:40:49]

iamlindoro:

everything in the universe is on tonight

[01:41:18]

mzb:

iamlindoro, how close are you to posting that? (or whatever)

[01:41:25]

iamlindoro:

mzb, Still fairly far

[01:41:29]

mzb:

kk

[01:41:34]

iamlindoro:

I went through a lot to get that video :)

[01:41:39]

mzb:

:)

[01:41:43]

mzb:

interesting to see it when you're ready

[01:41:47]

iamlindoro:

Had to solve a crash or two just to make the video work right

[01:42:30]

iamlindoro:

I've been working at breakneck speed all week, probaby need to stop for a day or two and just clean things up

[01:42:57]

iamlindoro:

or at least, finish the "search" portion and spend a few days cleaning

[01:43:06]

iamlindoro:

then move on to the "site map" view

[01:43:34]

mzb:

afair there are weird requirements for the iview flash ... inc tokens and stuff ... quite nasty

[01:44:00]

mzb:

but if there's a method of playing the stream then there must be a way around those issues ;)

[01:44:21]

iamlindoro:

Just don't look to me to solve them from the US ;)

[01:44:56]

mzb:

:)

[01:44:57]

mzb:

rtmp

[01:45:20]

iamlindoro:

as wagnerrp mentioned, flash playback is done through a mythbrowser instance, not direct playback

[01:45:43]

iamlindoro:

so for your site, you would write a conforming grabber to parse the site, and the plugin would spawn the browser directly to the playback page

[01:46:02]

iamlindoro:

Internal player is only available for those resources which can be downloaded

[01:46:10]

mzb:

k, this is the best overview of the issues involved: http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?tag=ABC_iView_Downloader

[01:46:17]

iamlindoro:

Not interested :)

[01:46:21]

mzb:

ok

[01:46:49]

iamlindoro:

Not my continent, can't even look at the site, not going to write the grabber, way too early for it ever to work anyway

[01:46:53]

mzb:

grabber should be easy enough (I think), rtmp + auth tokens might be a challenge

[01:46:54]

iamlindoro:

er even to

[01:47:02]

mzb:

sure, totally understand

[01:47:26]

mzb:

the point I'm trying to make is that these programmes _download_ the content

[01:47:40]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, but I won't be

[01:47:54]

mzb:

got it :)

[01:48:13]

wagnerrp:

the idea is to provider scrapers that link to content in a manner complicit with the TOS of the site

[01:48:20]

wagnerrp:

if the site allows downloading, so be it

[01:48:23]

iamlindoro:

those programs download the content by violating terms of service and writing custom hacks. Now, you could wrap a grabber around one of those scripts, technically, it would just be an unsupported use

[01:48:30]

wagnerrp:

but generally something using RTMPe does not

[01:48:39]

mzb:

ok

[01:49:12]

iamlindoro:

personally if I was hell-bent on making it work, I'd run a grabber that returned links to a local php link that spawned the downloader and passed back the downloadable file

[01:49:15]

iamlindoro:

but that's just me

[01:49:36]

iamlindoro:

Point being, it's doable, just won't be in the code itself to do it

[01:50:11]

iamlindoro:

you want to write a grabber that hacks in download of that stuff, that (and any consequences) are on the script author, and it insulates the project against that kind of thing

[01:53:34]

mzb:

yep

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spoc:

hey guys hows it goin?

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[03:37:13]

Brad-D:

iamlindoro: any chance you are around?

[03:37:36]

iamlindoro:

I'm here, but in and out

[03:38:23]

Brad-D:

i'm having fits with the progress bar, i want to use it as a volume bar. I have it set to horizontal, but it seems to go upside down (from what i am expecting), if i lower the value in it, it seems to steal from the bottom, not the top

[03:38:35]

Brad-D:

am i just doing something completely backwards? any ideas?

[03:39:05]

iamlindoro:

programmatically, or theming?

[03:39:33]

iamlindoro:

and either way, a pastebin of the code would probably help

[03:39:45]

Brad-D:

okay, let me go set something up

[03:39:47]

Brad-D:

thanks

[03:39:50]

iamlindoro:

np

[03:40:26]

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[03:43:00]

Brad-D:

http://pastebin.com/d3f97fcc8

[03:43:31]

iamlindoro:

Your theme reads vertical

[03:43:36]

iamlindoro:

<layout>vertical</layout>

[03:44:11]

Brad-D:

isn't that what i want? I thought a horizontal one, would go left to right?

[03:44:33]

iamlindoro:

"<Brad-D> i'm having fits with the progress bar, i want to use it as a volume bar. I have it set to horizontal"

[03:44:42]

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[03:44:52]

Brad-D:

ahhh, just lost my mind when typing that, lol.

[03:45:00]

iamlindoro:

your real issue is likely the <style>slide</style>

[03:45:02]

Dagmar:

Uh-huh.

[03:45:16]

iamlindoro:

Sure that's the one you want? The slide is exactly why it appears to be "stealing" from the bottom

[03:45:23]

iamlindoro:

because it's not, it's sliding it

[03:45:30]

Mandingo-Laptop:

when i scan my channels on comcast on my hvr-1600 for some reason i cant scan past channel 27 any idears ?

[03:45:56]

Dagmar:

Cuz they're all encrypted?

[03:45:59]

iamlindoro:

You probably want <style>reveal</style>

[03:46:12]

Mandingo-Laptop:

no it worked in .21

[03:46:34]

iamlindoro:

Are you trying to scan the analog side?

[03:46:48]

Mandingo-Laptop:

yes

[03:46:54]

iamlindoro:

Then that's your problem

[03:47:00]

iamlindoro:

no analog channel scan in .22

[03:47:04]

Mandingo-Laptop:

oh boy

[03:47:17]

Mandingo-Laptop:

whats up with that

[03:47:48]

Mandingo-Laptop:

is there something i can do or a link to a workaround

[03:48:03]

iamlindoro:

No workaround, nothing you can do (well, short of writing a new analog channel scanner)

[03:48:18]

Dagmar:

You should look on the wiki

[03:48:19]

iamlindoro:

The channel scanner has been rewritten and the analog scanner isn't finished

[03:48:23]

Brad-D:

iamlindoro: just tried reveal, and it seems to do roughly the same thing? is there a way i can control which way the progressbar "slides" or "reveals"?

[03:48:59]

iamlindoro:

Brad-D, not that I am aware

[03:49:06]

Mandingo-Laptop:

ok well thanks for the answer guys

[03:49:24]

Dagmar:

Argh

[03:49:42]

Dagmar:

I'm going to have to just write a page about vmalloc and link everything else in the wiki to it

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[04:27:26]

Memphisau:

hey, just a general question for you guys, does anyone with mythtv setup to get FTA DVB-t, experience the video/audio stopping every ~5–10 mins for 5 seconds? it appears to be I/O bound somewhere, as the hard drive light is on for several seconds while this is happening

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[04:58:38]

Dagmar:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Common_Problem:_vmalloc_too_small

[04:59:03]

Dagmar:

Grub people feel free to jump right in there and flesh out the passage for your sorry excuse for a boot manager

[04:59:37]

Dagmar:

I'm going to start purging all these dodgy refernces to vmalloc= and link them all to that so there'll be less confusion and a bigger change it'll pop up if someone whispers it anywhere near Google.

[05:03:48]

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[05:15:14]

mag0o:

hahah, the jimmy kimmel 'Bachelor' clip was good

[05:21:05]

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[05:25:04]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/MythNetvision-ui.png

[05:25:09]

iamlindoro:

A few little UI improvements

[05:25:28]

iamlindoro:

(What's that you say, a totally ToS compliant way of doing Apple Movie Trailers??)

[05:27:21]

wagnerrp:

well its not quite 'titties'

[05:27:30]

wagnerrp:

anyway, i didnt think there was a quicktime plugin for linux

[05:27:48]

iamlindoro:

GStreamer playing them fine

[05:28:10]

wagnerrp:

playing the .movs straight off the page?

[05:28:58]

iamlindoro:

yeah

[05:33:17]

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[05:54:59]

BjornR1989:

Hi all.

[05:55:18]

BjornR1989:

I've installed MythBuntu but there's a MythTV-specific problem.

[05:55:33]

BjornR1989:

MythTV uses /mnt/server which links to \\ddbs-2u1\F-schijf\ANY with RO permissions. It cant't find any movies while it's a 1TB drive. + It lists music files but it doesn't play them/there's no audio.

[05:55:44]

BjornR1989:

If anyone recognizes one of these problems, don't hesitate to highlight and/or pm me.

[05:55:52]

BjornR1989:

Thanks in advance.

[05:56:21]

wagnerrp:

theres files are stored on a windows file server?

[05:56:56]

BjornR1989:

The files are stored on an XP system yes.

[05:57:06]

wagnerrp:

hopefully youve mounted that UNC to the /mnt/server directory? rather than some ill conceived symlink

[05:57:19]

wagnerrp:

(you said the world link)

[05:57:21]

BjornR1989:

i mounted it to /mnt/server in /etc/fstab

[05:57:22]

wagnerrp:

word

[05:57:43]

wagnerrp:

and you can see the files youre looking for in /mnt/server?

[05:57:59]

BjornR1989:

ls -l /mnt/server lists all files and directories on that server yes.

[05:58:16]

wagnerrp:

and they have permissions such that the 'mythtv' user can see them as well?

[05:58:45]

iamlindoro:

perhaps most critically, you are manually running the scan for videos?

[05:58:58]

wagnerrp:

music, not videos

[05:59:14]

wagnerrp:

hmm.. he did say movies as well

[05:59:35]

wagnerrp:

mythvideo isnt finding anything... mythmusic finds them but will not play them?

[05:59:58]

BjornR1989:

Hmm... I configured Mythtv to look for videos in /mnt/server and it doesn't find any. Since \\ddbs-2u1 is mounted as /mnt/server everyone should have access right?

[06:00:08]

iamlindoro:

define "doesn't find any"

[06:00:10]

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[06:00:22]

iamlindoro:

doesn't find any when you do "x", where x =...?

[06:00:28]

BjornR1989:

sec, plugging in the tv.

[06:00:42]

iamlindoro:

again, asking if you are running the scans for the media

[06:00:57]

wagnerrp:

mythtv doesnt just 'find' the media

[06:01:14]

wagnerrp:

mythvideo has to scan from within the video library using the 'm' menu

[06:01:26]

wagnerrp:

mythmusic scans from the music manager within setup

[06:02:18]

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[06:02:52]

BjornR1989:

config > Manage movies = none; config > config > Media settings > Movies settings > common settings is set to use /mnt/server as the video folder

[06:03:35]

iamlindoro:

So... that would be a "No, I'm not running a scan," then

[06:03:46]

wagnerrp:

should 'manage movies' exist in 0.22-fixes?

[06:04:02]

wagnerrp:

s/movies/videos/

[06:04:05]

iamlindoro:

It would if you use the release version of MythBuntu, which ain't .22-fixes

[06:04:15]

wagnerrp:

ok

[06:04:38]

wagnerrp:

yeah, would be nice if mythbuntu would release an updated version

[06:04:50]

wagnerrp:

9.11 or something

[06:04:56]

iamlindoro:

Think they have to jump through a lot of hoops to push it out to everyone

[06:05:03]

iamlindoro:

but I think they are in the process of pushing that through

[06:05:13]

BjornR1989:

I'm currently using Mythbuntu MythTV frontend branches.release.0-22-fixes (22594)

[06:05:51]

iamlindoro:

So yes, that's pre-.22

[06:06:08]

iamlindoro:

again, just need to run scans for your material and it will likely appear just fine

[06:06:57]

BjornR1989:

Media center > Watch movies doesn't list any (i'm translating the menu items loosely) / Is this the way to run a scan or am i going down the wrong path again?

[06:07:20]

iamlindoro:

M->Scan For Changes

[06:07:24]

iamlindoro:

in MythVideo

[06:07:30]

BjornR1989:

whoa

[06:07:44]

BjornR1989:

It didn't list any options in the main screen.

[06:07:57]

BjornR1989:

It's searching.

[06:07:59]

iamlindoro:

?

[06:08:04]

iamlindoro:

that's not how myth works

[06:08:11]

iamlindoro:

all actions are in context menus

[06:08:21]

iamlindoro:

You should probably read the docs

[06:08:26]

BjornR1989:

WHOA it works !

[06:08:38]

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[06:08:45]

BjornR1989:

Yes, i really should.

[06:09:51]

BjornR1989:

Each movie is 0 minuts long according to MythTV

[06:10:12]

wagnerrp:

mythtv does not scan the length of the file

[06:10:17]

iamlindoro:

because you haven't downloaded any metadata or input any yet...

[06:10:22]

iamlindoro:

ok, seriously, read the manual

[06:10:22]

wagnerrp:

that information is filled in by the metadata grabber

[06:10:38]

iamlindoro:

This is free support, meet us halfway

[06:10:46]

BjornR1989:

Ok, thanks for now. It certainly plays movies but not all of them.

[06:15:00]

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[06:15:51]

BjornR1989:

It also lists music files but it either doesn't start playing them or there's something wrong with the audio output. I'll check the docs on that first.

[06:29:55]

BjornR1989:

Most videos play fine but there's no audio anywhere in MythTV. Hardware drivers and mixer are ok. / Looking for audio config.

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[07:25:51]

wagnerrp:

'24, a new day begins this january'....

[07:26:01]

wagnerrp:

wait a minutes, after all this and that poor bastard is still alive?

[07:26:30]

iamlindoro:

Especially given him being probably-going-to-die at the end of last season

[07:26:46]

iamlindoro:

Just like every season, they get to start with, "No, but really, he was fine."

[07:27:29]

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[07:32:53]

[R]:

that show is so ridiculous

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[08:47:46]

juro:

hi, after years of lying dormant, I have decided to revive my Via Epia M600 to use for a projector – what is the smallest footprint os wise?

[08:48:01]

wagnerrp:

a new system

[08:48:29]

wagnerrp:

that cannot be revived for any digital TV

[08:48:49]

wagnerrp:

you will be stuck with analog only

[08:49:35]

wagnerrp:

or you will have to have some outside transcoder (not myth's internal) to downscale the video to a size/bitrate/format the hardware decoders on that platform are capable of

[08:53:40]

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[08:54:28]

rxKaffee:

does anyone have a recomendation on a fairly inexpensive usb video capture device that I could use to watch my basic cable?

[08:54:53]

juro:

wagnerrp, for this specific application, the box only has to show videos and play music

[08:55:06]

wagnerrp:

juro: specifically, what video

[08:55:30]

wagnerrp:

the Via systems are restricted to a very limited set of video formats

[08:55:42]

wagnerrp:

and they do not have sufficient CPU power to decode anything else in software

[08:56:40]

juro:

wagnerrp, I have not quite made up my mind on that

[08:56:50]

justinh:

it'll only be any use for mpeg1 (!) and SD mpeg2 video

[08:56:52]

juro:

but I can transcode everything if need be

[08:57:05]

justinh:

save your time. do something else with it. seriously

[08:57:15]

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[08:57:24]

wagnerrp:

juro: its not worth the hassle, just spend $200 and buy new hardware that can handle anything you want in software

[08:57:47]

wagnerrp:

or spend the same amount and by a slightly more restricted set of codecs in VDPAU (nvidia's hardware decoding)

[08:58:23]

ivor:

or build it into a cigar case pc...

[08:58:27]

juro:

maybe where you are living you can get anything for $200 – here in South Africa there is like a 300% markup

[08:58:49]

justinh:

epia gear was such a good idea at the time. they've sadly been left *way* behind

[08:59:12]

ivor:

http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/humidor64/

[08:59:22]

justinh:

if all you're gonna be playing is low res xvid & sdtv mpeg2, then it'd be fine

[08:59:23]

ivor:

justinh: well i've started on h264.....

[08:59:31]

justinh:

but otherwise, forget it. honestly

[08:59:46]

justinh:

ivor: no use to mister M600 there though, is it? ;-)

[08:59:52]

ivor:

indeed.

[08:59:56]

juro:

ok, thank you

[09:00:07]

justinh:

cool beans though ivor :)

[09:00:19]

ivor:

could be a nice in-car pc

[09:00:41]

justinh:

can we still dream the 'I hope one day to see a HTPC motherboard with proper hardware decoder *and* OSS drivers' dream?

[09:00:58]

ivor:

feel free

[09:01:20]

ivor:

I've just built a 'projector pc' for my son out of an old OHP and a vaio. :)

[09:01:47]

rxKaffee:

justinh: ION doesn't do the trick?

[09:01:53]

justinh:

ivor: so can the thing you're working on in theory do bluray type h.264 bitrates & resolutions? I remember earlier 'mpeg4' decoding from via was limited to daft resolutions

[09:02:04]

justinh:

rxKaffee: the crux there being *open* drivers

[09:02:13]

justinh:

nvidia binary blobs...

[09:02:37]

ivor:

justinh: yeah the previous 'mpeg4' support i wasted too much time on was just h263 and was quicker to just decode in software!

[09:02:40]

justinh:

I mean I don't really mind whether something is open source or not but it'd be nicer if it was

[09:02:46]

ivor:

for the CN400 boards.

[09:03:09]

rxKaffee:

haven't really seen that much leap in support from the ATI drivers going open source

[09:03:12]

ivor:

the CX700M should do h264 at HD res. (but no VC1 for blu ray)

[09:03:12]

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[09:03:20]

ivor:

the VX800 and later should do VC1.

[09:03:23]

rxKaffee:

but I guess its the thought that counts rigth? ;)

[09:03:29]

justinh:

rxKaffee: nor will we I expect

[09:03:55]

justinh:

rxKaffee: all ATI?AMD have done is release spec sheets AFAIK. which is fine, if you had an army of developers with brains the size of planets

[09:03:57]

rxKaffee:

I hear we finally got decent power/fan control in the binary ATI drivers

[09:04:24]

rxKaffee:

justinh: they said tehy were releasing source code last feb, I never actually followed up to see if they did

[09:04:36]

rxKaffee:

it was announced several months before feb, and tehy said they wanted to "clean up" some first

[09:05:05]

justinh:

anyway it's ultimately up to the people they buy IP from whether stuff gets opened up or not

[09:05:34]

ivor:

or have to wait for someone to have enough time to write it from scratch

[09:05:44]

justinh:

manufacturers can *want* to open source stuff all they like, but their hands are tied if licensing agreements kybosh it

[09:06:19]

justinh:

we'd all be surprised to see how much even big manufacturers buy in from outside

[09:07:11]

justinh:

not saying it's the whole reason manufacturers aren't opening stuff up but it's a factor

[09:07:22]

justinh:

time for walkies of the dawgy

[09:07:40]

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[09:16:30]

mwfamily:

Hi, how do I prevent the mythfrontend window from being positioned below the top panel?

[09:23:52]

wagnerrp:

you turn off compiz

[09:25:51]

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[09:50:15]

mwfamily:

Hi, how do I prevent mythtv from unmuting the Master volume when starting Live TV?

[09:51:22]

wagnerrp:

you *want* your sound card to be muted and not output any sound?

[09:53:18]

mwfamily:

Yes essentially. My audio card outputs audio onto the Surround port even when Master is muted. This way I can mute Master to prevent sound coming out the Computer Monitor.

[09:54:39]

wagnerrp:

erm... computer monitors output video, not sound

[09:54:48]

mwfamily:

(built in speakers)

[09:54:59]

mwfamily:

very tinny, ergo the muting.

[09:55:14]

wagnerrp:

if you dont want to use them, why plug them in?

[09:56:16]

mwfamily:

This computer is used for both watching tv and normal computer use. When the TV isn't being used for mythtv, the computer monitor speakers are fine, espically if the TV is being used for analog tv.

[09:56:56]

mwfamily:

Anyway, is there a way to prevent this auto-unmute?

[09:57:39]

wagnerrp:

i honestly have no idea

[09:57:54]

wagnerrp:

cant say ive ever noticed it unmute audio

[09:58:41]

mwfamily:

ok thank you anyway.

[09:59:16]

wagnerrp:

you actually get the audio youre expecting out of the surround speakers?

[09:59:28]

wagnerrp:

i would expect you either get the rear channels of audio, or nothing at all

[09:59:33]

wagnerrp:

not the front channels

[10:02:10]

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[10:04:36]

mwfamily:

I know – weird huh? I think it's because of the way it can be set to copy the PCM channel, rather than the master. I just found that there's an inital Master volume in the General Audio Settings page, setting that to 0 does what i need. Thanks.

[10:04:42]

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[10:14:14]

justinh:

Heh. Stupid ancient tweet bot sending out links to stuff like this: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8524

[10:14:19]

justinh:

as new as 2005 eh. nice

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[11:20:49]

ivor:

friday. yay.

[11:31:51]

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[11:41:58]

justinh:

wonder when the xmas Radio Times is out

[11:52:01]

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[11:52:14]

ivor:

justinh: 5th december in london. 8th other places.

[11:53:00]

antgel:

what decade is this?

[11:53:02]

antgel:

s/decade/millenium

[11:56:45]

justinh:

ruh?

[11:57:20]

justinh:

ivor: cool, so not long to wait til the xml feed has all the festive listings then :)

[11:58:16]

justinh:

anyway if I want to buy a TV mag annually, let me be!

[11:58:57]

justinh:

we don't spend xmas at home yet, so it helps to know what rubbish the outlaws & parents might want to watch while we're a captive audience

[11:59:41]

ivor:

and you'll get your gruffalo special too!

[11:59:50]

justinh:

come to think about it, we've not had 'the discussion' about whose parents will have the pleasure of our company for christmas lunch

[12:00:09]

Dibblah:

How many years have you been eating out?

[12:00:57]

justinh:

don't get me wrong – if we xmas lunch at the outlaws *I* do the cooking

[12:01:11]

justinh:

I can't bear it otherwise. 1. gets me out of the way of the buggers and 2. is actually edible

[12:01:34]

Dibblah:

So bloody well do it at home, then!

[12:01:54]

Dibblah:

Put your foot down, be a man, etc, nonsensical etc.

[12:01:55]

justinh:

150 miles away from the family... hmmm

[12:02:11]

Dibblah:

Who wears the trousers?

[12:02:16]

Dibblah:

("She does!")

[12:02:21]

justinh:

the alternative is them coming to see us. I know what I'd rather do

[12:02:30]

ivor:

"Put your foot down, be a man," hahahahahhaa. yeah right.

[12:03:13]

justinh:

put your foot down, be a man. have conjugal rights denied, life will be made a COMPLETE PITA, but at least you'll have got your own way on ONE thing

[12:03:25]

justinh:

:)

[12:03:45]

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[12:04:41]

justinh:

I think inlaws are what put a lot of people off getting married

[12:05:42]

justinh:

could be worse. I pity the folks whose inlaws come for advent & don't leave til mid January

[12:07:02]

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[12:11:38]

Dr^Mouse:

Hello all

[12:13:33]

Dr^Mouse:

Quick question: is there a simple mapping between the current keybinding context and the response to 'query location' in the telnet control interface?

[12:14:28]

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[13:14:48]

justinh:

uh?

[13:14:58]

justinh:

those two things have nothing to do with one another

[13:20:35]

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[13:26:28]

Dr^Mouse:

justinh: OK, thats fine. I was hoping they were related. I am attempting to create an easy-to-use remote control program for Myth which looks up the keybindings on the fly.

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[13:29:41]

Dr^Mouse:

any ide how I would go about this?

[13:31:32]

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[14:17:18]

justinh:

no idea

[14:18:19]

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[14:18:23]

justinh:

up down left right select menu info back .. you don't really need much more than that

[14:19:00]

justinh:

maybe DETAILS (U) and DELETE (D) too

[14:19:14]

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[14:34:29]

Dr^Mouse:

justinh: ah well, I'll figure a way. How does myth decide which keybindings are active?

[14:35:31]

justinh:

each section deals with keypresses its own way

[14:35:50]

justinh:

i.e. they all get keypress signals via qt

[14:36:01]

justinh:

each part of code decides what to do with them

[14:38:45]

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[14:45:52]

Kunalagon:

hello, does somebody knows somethug about this error http://nopaste.ns-linux.org/?ODNhMD

[14:46:20]

Kunalagon:

2009-12–04 15:10:41.116 GetEntryAt(-1) failed.2009-12–04 15:10:41.117 EntryToProgram(0@Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970) failed to get pginfo

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[15:06:54]

justinh:

and another one goes off into the sunset, without knowing that they haven't finished running mythtv-setup & making sure everything is set correctly. Heheh

[15:14:00]

justinh:

DOH. All I need to make a bathroom telly is a 2 way mirror

[15:16:18]

iamlindoro:

Weird, I was thinking that was was I needed to make a bathroom movie studio

[15:17:10]

Dr^Mouse:

lol

[15:20:57]

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[15:22:49]

Dr^Mouse:

can you guys access the myth trac site atm?

[15:23:34]

clever:

justinh: all i need for a bathroom telly is a laptop:P

[15:24:47]

justinh:

clever: another myth laptop... BUSTED

[15:25:00]

benklop:

I have a myth mackend connected to a hdhomerun, and a separate frontend – when playing back a video recorded last night, I am getting a lot of mpeg errors – I did not get these errors a few days ago when I was using a combined frntend/backend..

[15:25:16]

benklop:

has anybody got any ideas why this is happening?

[15:25:30]

clever:

justinh: i'm typing on that myth laptop right now:P

[15:25:34]

justinh:

benklop: how's the video looking on the backend

[15:25:51]

benklop:

justinh: can't tell – it isn't capable of playback..

[15:26:05]

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[15:26:07]

justinh:

and when you say 'connected' you do mean wired networking don't you?

[15:26:18]

benklop:

justinh: yes, wired.

[15:26:49]

justinh:

I doubt it has *anything* to do with it no longer being a combined box

[15:27:13]

justinh:

I expect it has *everything* to do with changes in signal

[15:27:46]

justinh:

and I do wish you lot would be more descriptive than just ****ing saying 'errors'

[15:27:56]

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[15:27:57]

justinh:

muh, it no worky

[15:28:12]

benklop:

justinh: to be more specific about the setup, the back end is a xen virtual machine, but it is connected to both the fronend and the back end by ethernet

[15:28:23]

justinh:

gah

[15:28:41]

clever:

justinh: relax, i have to deal with the same 'it no worky' day in and day out

[15:28:41]

justinh:

WHY?!

[15:29:06]

benklop:

justinh: looks like damaged mpeg... i'll pastebin a bit of the error log

[15:29:11]

justinh:

"the back end is a xen virtual machine"

[15:29:22]

justinh:

benklop: it could only be problems with the received signal

[15:29:31]

clever:

poor signal quality could damage the mpeg stream

[15:29:41]

justinh:

or the (IMHO) idiotic decision to host the backend in a VM

[15:29:41]

benklop:

justinh: because my wife is very concerned about how much power we use in the house for computers and thus I need to get everything down into 1 machine

[15:29:49]

justinh:

so WHY a VM?

[15:30:16]

justinh:

and FWIW one machine != less power eaten than several

[15:30:46]

ivor:

i've got lots of machines. all nibbling away tiny amounts of power.

[15:30:47]

tank-man:

benklop, have you measured the power usage?

[15:30:53]

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[15:30:59]

benklop:

http://pastebin.com/m53d64006

[15:31:00]

justinh:

like one machine sucking 1000W 24/7 is worse than 20 eating 5 watts :P

[15:31:22]

justinh:

prolly just signal issues

[15:31:25]

ivor:

5! crazy talk. 3 watts. :)

[15:31:54]

benklop:

justinh: i know... honestly I decided that it's better to try and accomodate the requests than deal with the fallout of trying not to

[15:32:11]

ivor:

heh. where was the man or mouse post from earlier....

[15:32:19]

clever:

benklop: get a kill-a-watt and find the numbers

[15:32:19]

devinheitmueller:

Hmmm... A backend inside a VM? That doesn't sound like such a good idea. A backend has realtime requirements or else parts of the stream will get lost, so if a VM cannot keep up with the latency then packets will get dropped.

[15:32:48]

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[15:33:01]

justinh:

because my wife is very concerned about overloading mains sockets when there are 8 devices plugged into a mains extension block. None of which can pull more than 100W. WTF does she know about electrics?!

[15:33:09]

benklop:

devinheitmueller: are we talking about probable network issues then?

[15:33:26]

justinh:

so again I'll ask WHY a VM?

[15:33:28]

ivor:

justinh: exactly! how many times has she electrocuted herself?

[15:33:31]

justinh:

I mean REALLY why

[15:33:42]

devinheitmueller:

Well, the video is streamed in realtime across the network, so if the VM has too much latency, then packets will get dropped.

[15:33:51]

benklop:

justinh: I very much doubt signal issues since the cable has only gotten shorter in this change

[15:34:08]

justinh:

so it'd be network shortcomings for the reasons devinheitmueller cited

[15:34:09]

benklop:

justinh: and the FE still reports 100% signal on tuning th channel

[15:34:36]

justinh:

you can have 100% signal level & it could still be guff

[15:34:57]

devinheitmueller:

I don't personally have experience with the HDHR though – it's possible that the device has a *huge* buffer to compensate for latency.

[15:35:03]

devinheitmueller:

(but I doubt it)

[15:35:08]

justinh:

try not running MBE in a VM

[15:35:12]

justinh:

see how that goes

[15:35:18]

clever:

devinheitmueller: ive heard that the HDHR uses udp for the stream

[15:35:19]

benklop:

justinh: why NOT a xen vm? it get's rather close to direct access to the disk and net hardware

[15:35:29]

benklop:

it does use UDP

[15:35:29]

justinh:

but WHY?!

[15:35:31]

clever:

devinheitmueller: so its likely to drop packets alot

[15:35:50]

devinheitmueller:

clever: Yeah, that's what I figured. In which case if the PC cannot keep up, then the packets will get dropped.

[15:35:51]

ivor:

and/or play the recording file directly on another machine to determine if the recording is ok before wasting time doing anything else

[15:35:51]

benklop:

because I have a few other low processor requirements servers running on the box too

[15:35:54]

justinh:

of all the bloody daft ideas we see in here running myth services in VMs just for the sake of it...

[15:36:04]

devinheitmueller:

.... and you don't need *that* much packet loss to end up with crappy looking video.

[15:36:31]

justinh:

run the other stuff in their own VMs then

[15:36:52]

benklop:

I admit it's a CRAZY idea, but I don't actually see why it shouldn't work. maybe difficult, but it should work...

[15:37:00]

devinheitmueller:

I would seriously consider having a dedicated box for the backend, and a separate box with VMs for "everything else"

[15:37:20]

justinh:

where my wife works, they virtualised everybody's desktop machine onto servers off-site

[15:37:27]

devinheitmueller:

Well, VMs are well suited for many applications. Anything that requires low-latency though is poorly suited for a VM environment.

[15:37:35]

justinh:

needless to say, they got it all locked down nice but it's a DOG PITA

[15:37:44]

benklop:

heh, i bet

[15:38:00]

ivor:

and/or play the recording file directly on another machine to determine if the recording is ok before wasting time doing anything else

[15:38:18]

devinheitmueller:

I run *hundreds* of virtual machines here, and it works well for my application and saves us a ton of money/power. But none of my requirements involve low latency.

[15:38:31]

justinh:

ivor: which is why I said try playing it on the backend machine. heh

[15:38:57]

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[15:39:01]

ivor:

indeed

[15:39:09]

benklop:

I was watching TV all last night live without issue, and the show i'm having problems with is an old star trek, so not HD. i just can't figure out why there would be issue with this and not other streams if its really a problem with network latency and dropped packets

[15:39:10]

justinh:

the illusion that something is saving you money when it takes ten of your earth hours to set up...

[15:39:52]

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[15:40:12]

devinheitmueller:

It doesn't have to be HD. Even an SD program will have corruption if your backend VM gets stalled for a couple of seconds because one of your other VMs is busy.

[15:40:17]

benklop:

ivor: why would lat hep? I assume mythtv uses TCP for sending the video, so there should be no packet loss there, and I know it can handle the throughput because I can transfer larger files in less time than the video takes to play

[15:40:47]

clever:

benklop: the HDHR itself uses udp for the video stream

[15:41:18]

justinh:

try netcat

[15:41:54]

benklop:

justinh: in what way?

[15:42:19]

ivor:

because if the recording file contains errors then fixing anything else ISN'T GOING TO HELP.

[15:42:24]

justinh:

to test network connectivity

[15:42:34]

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[15:42:38]

ivor:

it'd be plain stupid not to check.

[15:42:49]

justinh:

even try copying a recording from the BE to another machine. A real machine

[15:42:52]

justinh:

then play it

[15:42:54]

benklop:

ivor: true, and I think that the file probably does. i'm trying to determine why.

[15:43:10]

benklop:

and yes, I agree the answer is some variation on !&$#@ VM

[15:43:10]

justinh:

think?

[15:43:34]

benklop:

i'm pulling it from the backend and checking it in a moment

[15:43:36]

justinh:

bout time we had a case study to show people why it's a bad idea

[15:43:54]

ivor:

justinh: what thinking?

[15:44:22]

justinh:

running myth in a vm

[15:44:45]

justinh:

BAD

[15:45:01]

benklop:

ok, I get that this is all a horrible twisted frankenstein of an idea, by is that any reason why it shouldn't theoretically work?

[15:45:06]

justinh:

1.we have enough people clueless enough not to manage getting mythtv to work

[15:45:12]

justinh:

2. doing it in a VM is even harder

[15:45:16]

justinh:

3. see 1&2

[15:45:55]

benklop:

i've done mythtv for a number of years and always manage to screw it up every upgrade anyway, so why not make this one at least fun?

[15:45:56]

justinh:

benklop: in theory, no. in practise.. whole different kettle of eels

[15:45:58]

devinheitmueller:

benklop: it won't "theoretically work" if the VM is unable to support the latency requirments of the HDHR"

[15:46:29]

justinh:

'fun' == VMs? freaking pervert

[15:47:28]

benklop:

devinheitmueller: right... i saw a post a few days ago about how to make xen vms capable of gigabit networking, wouldn't that be enough to meet the latency reqs?

[15:47:41]

devinheitmueller:

benklop: No. Do not confuse throughput with latency.

[15:48:08]

devinheitmueller:

Ever hear the saying, "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway"?

[15:48:18]

benklop:

devinheitmueller: aren't we talking about the time between packets?

[15:48:20]

devinheitmueller:

High bandwidth, but latency is *really* crappy.

[15:49:17]

benklop:

never heard that before, but interesting analogy

[15:49:27]

devinheitmueller:

Well, in this case we're talking about how often the VM is able to receive packets. With error correcting protocols like TCP, the packet just gets retransmitted if not received (because the source keeps it around long enough to retransmit). But with UDP, if the recipient is busy doing something else, but never listening, then the packet gets dropped.

[15:50:41]

benklop:

devinheitmueller: ok, makes sense.

[15:51:03]

benklop:

this may be something better brought up to the xen guys then, if I can confirm that is the issue

[15:51:04]

devinheitmueller:

A consequence of running multiple VMs is the very real possibility that the host CPU is running a different VM at the time the packets are being received, at which point the packets get lost.

[15:51:20]

devinheitmueller:

This is a problem common to *all* virtualization solutions.

[15:51:56]

devinheitmueller:

Like I said, virtualization is great for *many* applications – just not ones where there is an expectation that a single VM will be able to have realtime responsiveness.

[15:52:48]

benklop:

so essentially udp does not mix with virtualization

[15:53:08]

benklop:

ever

[15:53:08]

devinheitmueller:

very poorly.

[15:53:44]

benklop:

well then I guess my virtualized asterisk box works only out of being a freak of nature

[15:53:48]

devinheitmueller:

Some applications that use UDP have some redundancy built in to mitigate packet loss, but that is in the hands of the application, and really only works if the transmitter has enough buffering capability to retransmit.

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[15:56:41]

devinheitmueller:

but yeah, generally speaking I would seriously think twice about running an asterick box on a VM if it is important to your business.

[15:57:05]

ivor:

but of course this is still speculation and you haven't determined that you're getting UDP packet loss.

[15:57:08]

benklop:

there's also problems with not havig access to a real RTC in asterisk.. but that's a bit of a digression. Assuming I have to stay within the confines of one box, xen is not the answer then. would something like openvz be better, since it doesn't virtualize exactly? or maybe something like user mode linux?

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[15:58:46]

benklop:

ivor: right.. to do that, i'll need to, what, just check the file on the backend, or somethin like captureing data dirctly from the hdhr?

[15:58:47]

devinheitmueller:

ivor: indeed. If he wants confirm, he would probably have to capture the traffic with a sniffer, extract the raw data and compare it against the stream that is on-disk on the backend.

[15:59:29]

benklop:

devinheitmueller: that's a bit beyond my skill set ATM, i'd at least need a howto :-p

[16:00:00]

ivor:

devinheitmueller: or just check that the source file is ok first? :)

[16:01:28]

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[16:01:30]

devinheitmueller:

benklop: yeah, it would be nontrivial.

[16:01:38]

benklop:

ivor: i was thinking about just sending a chunk of known data over UDP and then comparing it to the source

[16:02:34]

devinheitmueller:

ivor: what source file? In this case we are talking about the data being transmitted from the HDHR to the backend. The "source" is internal to the HDHR.

[16:02:35]

benklop:

that would test UDP, but not neccesarily the HDHR or myth

[16:02:46]

** ivor gives up. **

[16:03:28]

devinheitmueller:

benklop: yeah, it would be a non-trivial exercise to confirm, since you would need to munge the wireshark dump to extract the raw data.

[16:03:44]

benklop:

I was thinking grabbing about 100mb from /dev/urandom, saving it, sending it over udp to the machine, then copying it back to my original machine with a tcp based protocol and then comparingthe two files

[16:03:47]

ivor:

devinheitmueller: source file – the recording. we still haven't determined that that's ok!

[16:03:50]

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[16:04:29]

devinheitmueller:

ivor: well, I guess it's possible that the recording on the backend is ok (and the problem is streaming it to the frontend), but I wouldn't put any money on it.

[16:04:40]

benklop:

does nfs use UDP or TCP?

[16:04:58]

clever:

benklop: nfs has retry in it anyways, if a udp packet gets lost it asks for it again

[16:05:11]

clever:

and it uses either one

[16:05:23]

benklop:

i'll just use scp to grab the file from the backend actually ands try to decode it here with mplayer

[16:05:47]

devinheitmueller:

Yes, although NFS uses UDP, it enforces data integrity in the application layer (the nfs client/server).

[16:06:01]

clever:

scp has tons of error detecting

[16:06:09]

devinheitmueller:

... which is much easier in the case of NFS since the file being transmitted is sitting on disk.

[16:06:27]

clever:

the disk itself is the buffer for retrans

[16:06:44]

bradd_:

iperf is your friend for testing the network

[16:06:58]

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[16:08:23]

benklop:

devinheitmueller: great. I thought it used UDP, wondered about error checking. how does that work for UNIX sockets and things like that? never used those over NFS, but I'm pretty sure it supports them

[16:08:29]

benklop:

that's off topic anyway

[16:08:41]

clever:

unix sockets are local only i beleive

[16:08:50]

clever:

fifo's also

[16:09:05]

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[16:09:44]

benklop:

clever: since they aren't actually dealing with disk i/o I thought so too, not sure if nfs does magic though

[16:10:38]

clever:

with a fifo, it just sets up a special area in ram for the buffers, but if you access a fifo over nfs, you just make that buffer on the client end

[16:10:55]

clever:

so only that client can interact with the programs that have it open (within the box)

[16:11:34]

benklop:

clever: that sounds about like i would wexperct

[16:11:51]

benklop:

ok, i have about 600 mb of the file, that shouldbe enough to test it

[16:15:09]

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[16:18:37]

benklop:

mplayer is reporting errors similar to what mythfrontend was saying

[16:18:48]

benklop:

this is the file retrieved from the backend over scp

[16:19:02]

benklop:

so i'm reasonably certain the errors are on disk

[16:19:36]

benklop:

whether they got there because of reception, transmission, or recieve issues is still a question though

[16:20:22]

ivor:

so there we go. can we all stop guessing about udp now.....

[16:21:25]

benklop:

well UDP recieve OR reception are still possibilities... also maybe I have a crappy ethernet cable

[16:21:58]

benklop:

so i'll need to do some omre testing to confirm it is udp recieve, but I'd agree that its themost likely candidate

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[16:39:37]

Sound:

[newbie question] Hi all, can I use MythTV to record multiple channels 24/7 and export them in a format such as MP4?

[16:40:43]

tank-man:

sure, if you build it

[16:41:03]

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[16:42:07]

Sound:

tank-man: thank you! how would be the files splitted? one file per day? is that customizable?

[16:42:36]

tank-man:

files from mythtv are 1 per show

[16:42:56]

tank-man:

you can convert that to mp4 after

[16:43:20]

Sound:

tank-man: I'd like to record 24/7 non-stop, so I've got no single shows to record

[16:43:46]

benklop:

tank-man: you could specify a custom record that is 24 hours long if that's what you want

[16:43:58]

tank-man:

well, if you want, you can make a manual record setting for 1 24hr period

[16:44:12]

benklop:

er i meant Sound:

[16:44:29]

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[16:44:39]

ivor:

but this is intriguing.... what are you doing with this?

[16:44:42]

Sound:

benklop and tank-man: oh well, I didn't think about that ;)

[16:45:23]

mag0o:

brain washing

[16:45:29]

benklop:

heh..

[16:45:36]

tank-man:

getting material for a comedy show :)

[16:45:43]

Sound:

heh, that's not for personal use

[16:45:49]

benklop:

Sound: if you use a frame grabber card you could have it directly encoded to mpeg4

[16:46:26]

benklop:

but of course that's more processor intense and fram grabbers aren't the best quailty

[16:46:27]

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[16:46:40]

Sound:

benklop: that's interesting; however how can I combine a DVB-T receiver with hardware encoding? does combined hardware exist?

[16:46:44]

benklop:

at least the cheapo ones i've used in the past

[16:47:40]

ivor:

if it's dvb-t and you want everything... why not just pipe the stream direct from the card to disk?

[16:47:51]

benklop:

Sound: i think you would just use a dvb card. never used DVB, but I do have an HD home run ATSC for the US, the ymake a DVB one as well – 2 inputs

[16:48:11]

benklop:

ivor: that's true

[16:48:39]

ivor:

Sound: so... what are you up to? :)

[16:49:01]

Sound:

ivor: hmm, yeah, but I thought that MythTV would allow me to manage a distributed pool of backend recorders (I still have to learn how it works, though)

[16:50:24]

benklop:

Sound: now i'm curious too

[16:50:43]

Sound:

heh, okay, I'll give more detail about my goals :)

[16:51:17]

** ivor pulls up a comfy chair. **

[16:51:56]

Sound:

I developed a software that allows governmental or research organizations to record all public TV channels (say, 30 channels) and do some kind of categorization and speech-level tagging of topics and people

[16:52:30]

Sound:

it's Mac-based and it works with Linux-based backend recording servers that use VLC to record from DVB-T external devices

[16:52:50]

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[16:53:18]

Sound:

I'm not very satisfied with VLC, so I was investigating MythTV as a replacement for the full backend architecture

[16:53:31]

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[16:54:02]

tank-man:

how is it tagging the video? from closedcaption content?

[16:54:13]

Sound:

tank-man: that's manual tagging

[16:54:30]

Sound:

operators work on videos

[16:54:55]

Sound:

they review the recordings and tag people and topics

[16:55:53]

benklop:

mythtv would allow you to know the basic category, title, and stuff like that automatically

[16:56:13]

Sound:

benklop: that would be a nice cherry on top :)

[16:56:38]

benklop:

and it splits shows, so you would have the start/stop time for all shows if you recorded that way and not just a 24 hour long recording

[16:57:00]

benklop:

actually at least in the US sechedules direct also provides which people are in many shows

[16:57:48]

benklop:

i don't know if xmltv can grab that info or not

[16:57:48]

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[16:57:55]

benklop:

but that might be useful too.

[16:58:01]

** Sound looks forward to give MythTV a try **

[16:58:02]

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[16:58:16]

Sound:

benklop: very interesting

[16:58:26]

benklop:

at first I was thinking that mythtv would be overkill, but the more I think about it the more it seems like it has a lot of info you'd be able to use

[16:58:53]

Sound:

I'll be also digging the mailing list archives for hardware setup for recording 20+ channels simultaneously

[16:58:57]

ivor:

ditto.

[16:59:18]

** Sound thinks that too **

[16:59:31]

benklop:

that wouldn't be that hard really

[16:59:43]

benklop:

i say since iv never tried it

[16:59:45]

benklop:

:-P

[17:00:02]

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[17:00:07]

Sound:

also, it's got a kind IRC community, while a raw pipe hasn't ;)

[17:00:24]

benklop:

you'd just (i would anyway) hook a few (5) hd home runs to a dedicated ethernet port on a back end (that's 10 sources)

[17:00:35]

ivor:

although for for initial problem of recording all the channels, six capture cards dumping the complete streams out might be easier than trying to setup recordings on a backend farm.

[17:00:59]

benklop:

that's about the bandwidth of 10/100 ethernet

[17:01:34]

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[17:01:48]

benklop:

I THINK 5 per would work

[17:02:00]

Sound:

ivor: are you saying that I should try to record everthing on a single box instead of distributing things to more low-end machines? a backend pool would also give me some redundancy

[17:02:20]

ivor:

benklop: depends on the broadcaster. I was going from the uk dvb-t with 6 multiplexes.

[17:02:21]

benklop:

you'dneed to check of course, but mythtv can use distributed storage as of .22

[17:02:30]

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[17:02:54]

ivor:

Sound: no. I was just 'suggesting' what i'd do. :) I'd probably use two or three machines with either two or three cards in each.

[17:03:05]

Sound:

benklop: are you referring to some tuners that stream things over IP, right?

[17:04:13]

ivor:

Sound: that would be enough to capture all UK broadcasting, and then i'd capture the full streams and post-process/ spilt as necessary.

[17:04:23]

benklop:

Sound: Yes. and. well, each actual carrier has a set amount of bandwidth, and the carrier can contain up to x number of streams. an hdhomerun (or other tuners) can record off one tuner all the multiplexes on a carrier so that would make recording multiple multiplexes rather convenienr

[17:04:38]

ivor:

Sound: there was a BBC prototype for a 24/7 recording machine you might want to read up on for background info too.

[17:05:05]

benklop:

Sound: it doesn't really matter too much how many backends you use, but multiple machines would mean more disk bandwidth probably

[17:05:09]

Sound:

I'm not afraid of the complexity of a backend farm :) That would allow me to start with a capacity of, say, 10 simultaneous channels, and then grow it up by just adding backend servers to my pool and having MythTV distribute jobs automagically

[17:05:31]

** Sound running into chat-lag issues **

[17:06:01]

clever:

Sound: ive got my network setup to run the jobs on any slave backend that is alive

[17:06:06]

benklop:

Sound: sounds like an easy enough thing.. you can also add more tuners to a single backnd if you think you won't exceed the i/o capacity of the backend

[17:06:19]

clever:

helps alot when the master be is a 400mhz P2

[17:06:36]

benklop:

clever: that's what i've got set up too

[17:06:37]

benklop:

:)

[17:06:50]

benklop:

except my BE is a vm, which we talked about earlier :-P

[17:07:16]

clever:

the only time ive run myth in a VM was with slaves that transcode/flag things

[17:07:51]

Sound:

you're all saying very very interesting things

[17:07:59]

** Sound takes note of everything **

[17:09:59]

benklop:

yeah, commercial flagging and transcoding is probably the only really processor intense stuff done on a backend anymore with already mpeg encoded video from the antenna

[17:10:06]

Sound:

ivor: do you have any pointer to that 24/7 BBC prototype? did it involve MythTV and/or free software?

[17:10:41]

benklop:

Sound: you mentioned hardware encoding earlier, but with digital broadcasting it's not needed. the stream is broadcast in mpeg already, so there is no re-encoding done unless you want to change formats

[17:10:45]

clever:

benklop: scheduling is also cpu intensive

[17:10:46]

ivor:

my google-fu is failing me justinh might remember, i can't recall the details.....

[17:10:50]

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[17:11:03]

benklop:

clever: really? how intensive?

[17:11:14]

clever:

benklop: my 400mhz P2 takes 30+ seconds for each change

[17:11:14]

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[17:11:24]

clever:

but ive got alot of rules and recordings

[17:11:26]

benklop:

clever: oh.. well ok yeah for that box

[17:11:43]

Sound:

benklop: unfortunately I'd need to resize the videos; keeping an archive of 3 months for 30 channels requires some aggressive compression

[17:11:43]

wagnerrp:

benklop: depends on a number of factors

[17:11:48]

clever:

other then scheduling and flagging, 400mhz is overkill

[17:11:52]

benklop:

the box running my vm is a 2.3 ghz amd64, so i never notice that stuff :-p

[17:12:19]

wagnerrp:

seems to scale fairly linearly with number of channels, number of recording schedules, and speed of processor

[17:12:22]

ivor:

Sound: I might have the link lying around somewhere, I'll drop you an email if I find it.

[17:12:38]

benklop:

Sound: well mythtv does have the ability to automatically transcode video to mpeg 4, with variable encoding parameters

[17:12:52]

benklop:

there are also custom user jobs that can be scheduled on a per recording basis

[17:13:07]

Sound:

ivor: I'd appreciate that a lot, if you happen to find it. thank you in advance for your time :)

[17:13:14]

benklop:

and these jobs will run on whatever backend you want

[17:13:46]

wagnerrp:

sure, but thats mpeg4, not h264, which is only moderately more efficient than mpeg2

[17:13:50]

wagnerrp:

and it will be in a nuv

[17:14:09]

ivor:

Sound: it might be completely irrelevent, but i'll have a hunt.

[17:14:17]

Sound:

benklop: very nice; I'd be adding dedicated transcoding boxes so that I do not waste CPU time of the ones with video inputs

[17:14:30]

wagnerrp:

thirty channels for three months, youre best off just getting a bunch of hard drives

[17:15:57]

Sound:

wagnerrp: yeah :) I'll do some math to check whether I'd better buy a larger storage than dedicated CPUs to transcode things

[17:16:09]

benklop:

Sound: recording input from 2 networked tuners at once on my virtual machine (running on an amd64 2.3 ghz or so) uses a total of about 10% cpu

[17:16:16]

benklop:

on the host machine

[17:16:35]

benklop:

so i'd not worry TOO much about processor on the backend

[17:16:51]

benklop:

it's probably a lot less without the vm stuff

[17:16:53]

wagnerrp:

i mean at an average digital bitrate, thats only ~4TB/channel

[17:17:07]

wagnerrp:

120TB is not all that excessive these days

[17:17:19]

wagnerrp:

maybe $15K

[17:17:27]

benklop:

wagnerrp: wish I had that kinda storage :-P

[17:17:33]

clever:

me too

[17:17:47]

Sound:

wagnerrp: hmm, you're definitely right

[17:17:57]

wagnerrp:

well you would probably have plenty of money to do so if you intended to record three months of tv on thirty channels

[17:18:03]

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[17:18:38]

wagnerrp:

i mean thats only around $8K in drives alone

[17:18:50]

wagnerrp:

and you can fit that in two systems, for a couple $K apice

[17:19:41]

Sound:

wagnerrp: do you happen to have quick numbers about transcoding time?

[17:20:09]

wagnerrp:

check out a couple months ago, some web storage company put plans online for a homebrew 'thumper' box, dual quad opteron and 45 drives for $7K in a 4U case

[17:20:09]

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[17:20:14]

clever:

Sound: as ive been told before, you might blow more electricity (cost wise) then you save (in disk drive costs)

[17:20:49]

wagnerrp:

assuming you will transcode to industry standard h264

[17:21:14]

benklop:

clever: heh, that would actually depend entirely on how long you run it... since the electricity is a constant expense

[17:21:19]

Sound:

oh right, electricity is another point (however I'll not be paying for it, so its weight is not so important for me)

[17:21:20]

wagnerrp:

you will end up spending about 2–3x as much just storing as you would transcoding and storing

[17:21:39]

wagnerrp:

considering youre rolling things over every 3 months

[17:21:50]

wagnerrp:

straight storage would pay for itself in a little over half a year

[17:21:57]

clever:

benklop: doing a transcode will peg the cpu at 100%, increasing the current draw and your bills

[17:22:06]

Sound:

wagnerrp: that means that I'd need to have 3–4 transcoding units for each recording server

[17:22:17]

clever:

with hardware encoding, you can keep the box near 0% load and keep the power bills to a minimum

[17:22:19]

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[17:22:22]

benklop:

clever: but mythtv can be told to not peg the CPU

[17:22:42]

clever:

benklop: then the transcode will take twice as long, and probly cost you 3 times as much

[17:22:47]

wagnerrp:

Sound: thats direct energy cost of loaded vs. idle existing systems, versus additional hard drive cost

[17:22:51]

benklop:

clever: heh

[17:23:11]

wagnerrp:

if you have to buy additional CPUs specifically for transcoding, that turn around time is significantly lower

[17:23:19]

wagnerrp:

maybe as low as three months

[17:23:38]

Sound:

I'm insisting on transcoding because I was requested to provide a compressed version that will be transferred through a network; they're requesting 5Gb/day.... which is a bit too low, I know

[17:24:24]

clever:

'Want 67 Terabytes of local storage? That’ll be $7,867' http://hackaday.com/2009/09/04/how-a-storoage . . . s-their-own/

[17:24:33]

Sound:

wagnerrp: your thoughts are very reasonable

[17:24:46]

benklop:

that's quite low, for 30 channels for 24 hours...

[17:25:08]

wagnerrp:

5gb/day/channel? perhaps?

[17:25:30]

Sound:

wagnerrp: yes, that's it :)

[17:25:33]

wagnerrp:

i mean i was estimating closer to 4TB/day/channel

[17:25:40]

benklop:

but I guess resolution and quality are secondary to just being able to recognize the words, people, and obj3cts in the video

[17:25:41]

wagnerrp:

no, 4TB/day

[17:25:50]

wagnerrp:

130GB/day/channel

[17:26:22]

wagnerrp:

5GB/day/channel is roughly 150kbps

[17:26:35]

wagnerrp:

thats hardly worthwhile for audio, much less audio PLUS video

[17:26:52]

wagnerrp:

youre going to be running very low quality and very low resolution

[17:27:16]

wagnerrp:

you should encode some demo at that bitrate, and slap them with it

[17:27:17]

Sound:

oh, a side question: does MythTV make use of multiple cores when transcoding? I'd say that multiple cores are not useful for recording servers

[17:27:35]

clever:

Sound: dont think so, but i generaly run 3 transcodes at once

[17:27:38]

benklop:

wagnerrp: at the best compression mythtv can transcode to, is that possible while still being watchable i wonder?

[17:27:39]

wagnerrp:

mythtv will ONLY encode to mjpeg, or mpeg4 asp

[17:27:54]

wagnerrp:

neither of which you want to bother encoding to

[17:27:57]

Sound:

wagnerrp: yeah, that's too low. I think that an acceptable level for such purposes would be 300kbps

[17:28:26]

wagnerrp:

most h264 encoders are multithreaded (if you use multiple slices)

[17:28:43]

wagnerrp:

acceptable level starts somewhere around 1mbps

[17:28:50]

wagnerrp:

(IMHO)

[17:29:14]

benklop:

acceptable meaning enjoyable, or watchable, or just discernable?

[17:29:43]

wagnerrp:

and thats for a very clean cropped DVD source

[17:29:44]

Sound:

wagnerrp: heh, that's for viewing pleasure purposes; these recordings will be kept for research purposes (say, count how many hours a day is Mr. X shown during news etc.)

[17:30:15]

wagnerrp:

you bump up to full frame TV broadcasts (which cant be cropped) and your bitrate increases

[17:30:29]

wagnerrp:

especially if you use something which at some point was analog

[17:30:35]

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[17:30:58]

wagnerrp:

all that nearly imperceivable analog noise or film grain plays hell with encoders

[17:31:15]

wagnerrp:

its raw entropy, they cant handle it gracefully

[17:31:41]

Sound:

wagnerrp: oh, never thought about that issue

[17:32:41]

benklop:

I like raw entropy, in small doses

[17:32:42]

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[17:32:45]

benklop:

:P

[17:32:51]

Sound:

lol :D

[17:34:14]

benklop:

so in any case if you are using typical tuners you'll need enough space to at least store maybe a day's worth of the raw mpeg2 streams, and then enough additional space to store the transcoded files

[17:35:16]

wagnerrp:

if you absolutely must have small files, h264 is probably the most efficient option you have

[17:35:27]

wagnerrp:

and it was still only designed to do half the bitrate of mpeg2

[17:35:59]

Sound:

wagnerrp: yeah, that's what my indexing application is using, as QuickTime can read MP4 files

[17:36:13]

wagnerrp:

so assuming you chop the resolution, cut the quality, you may cut that down to another quarter acceptably

[17:36:15]

benklop:

although if you halve the resolution of the files as well you'd use about 1/8th the bandwidth, right?

[17:36:35]

wagnerrp:

and youre looking at maybe 500kbps/channel

[17:36:35]

benklop:

1/4 @ mpeg2, half that at h264?

[17:36:51]

benklop:

am I thinking about that wrong?

[17:37:02]

wagnerrp:

still over three times that 5GB/channel/day

[17:37:16]

wagnerrp:

(from a average 4mbps digital channel

[17:37:53]

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[17:38:09]

Sound:

wagnerrp: I believe that the target of 5Gb/channel/day is not very reasonable. I was asked about it, but that's too low

[17:39:00]

tank-man:

what is the resolution?

[17:39:10]

tank-man:

320x200?

[17:39:38]

Sound:

ivor: got your e-mail!

[17:39:54]

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[17:40:14]

Sound:

ivor: I owe you a beer as soon as you happen to come to Italy ;)

[17:40:27]

benklop:

tank-man: that'd be watchable...

[17:40:28]

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[17:40:51]

Sound:

tank-man: you're asking me? I'd be fine with that, of course

[17:42:04]

clever:

i compress my junk to 500mb/hour on avg

[17:43:09]

wagnerrp:

still 2.5x what you were asked to provide

[17:43:10]

tank-man:

5gig/24hr = 200megabytes/1hr, that is watchable

[17:43:18]

wagnerrp:

who exactly is this video for?

[17:43:33]

wagnerrp:

tank-man: depends on your definition of 'watchable'

[17:44:14]

Sound:

wagnerrp: research purposes; it will be reviewed at 2x speed by operators who will mark people and topics

[17:44:16]

tank-man:

for Sound, it seems like he just needs to be able to idedentify stuff to tag the video

[17:44:47]

** Sound has a very low threshold of watchability **

[17:44:51]

benklop:

clever, justinh, devinheitmueller, ivor: I moved my backend storage to a local drive connected to the VM rather than NFS and things seem a lot metter

[17:44:55]

benklop:

*better

[17:45:39]

ivor:

back of envelope calculation... to record all uk multiplexes raw for 24 hours is just over 1TB.

[17:46:48]

benklop:

ivor: what parameters?

[17:47:00]

ivor:

back of envelope ones.

[17:47:01]

benklop:

at raw bitrates?

[17:47:39]

benklop:

or at compressed to some low rate

[17:47:55]

ivor:

yup but thats assuming youre capturing all and all are transmitting all the time, so that could be cut back a bit.

[17:48:17]

ivor:

worth considering, that way you've got all the channels and all the data to postprocess at your leisure.

[17:48:47]

ctmjr:

I have a strange problem am using myhttv from trunk on debian/lenny (stable), when i start the front end it loads into the image gallery instead of the main menu I can stop it by renaming the gallery.xml, then it loads correctly, any help is appreciated

[17:49:45]

jams:

ctmjr- sounds like one of the media monitoring events is picking up a cd or usgb stick and loading gallery to view the images

[17:50:07]

LabMonke1 is now known as LabMonkey

[17:50:14]

jams:

try turning off media mon and see what happens

[17:50:29]

benklop:

ctmjr: i had that issue on gentoo, i installed svn fixes on lenny here and don't have that issue now

[17:50:52]

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[17:51:18]

benklop:

ctmjr: i think i read something about that being a known bug that was fixed in the fixes branch, but you should wait for a comment from someone who actually works on myth

[17:53:00]

benklop:

but it could definitely be what jams said as well

[17:53:19]

benklop:

ctmjr: ^

[17:53:39]

jams:

of course it could be =)

[17:53:46]

ctmjr:

jams: jams benklop thanks will try both and see what happens will let you know

[17:55:15]

benklop:

jams: maybe you could tell me though: when I start mythtv now it asks me to select an optical drive – i have two. how can I disable this prompt, or at least make it save my selection?

[17:55:57]

jams:

benklop- had that problem as well, it was a known bug at the time. Not for sure it was fixed or not

[17:56:04]

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[17:56:20]

jams:

it's freaking annoying, but I don't have a solution for you

[17:57:07]

jams:

there was a ticket in trac, maybe something on the ticket will help

[17:57:27]

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[17:58:04]

benklop:

jams: i'll check

[17:58:50]

jams:

benklop- probably not what you want to hear, but I think if you rmeove all but one drive the prmpt goes away

[17:59:41]

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[18:00:02]

benklop:

jams: actualyl that's somewhat acceptable.. actually I was thinking about changing the ownership of the device file so mythtv can only access one of them

[18:01:17]

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[18:02:11]

benklop:

jams: i see a 2 year old patch

[18:02:44]

jams:

it wouldn't be two years old..maybe 2–3 months

[18:02:51]

jams:

whats the link ?

[18:03:07]

benklop:

jams: it doesn't look like the right one

[18:03:21]

benklop:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3077

[18:03:28]

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[18:03:34]

benklop:

not sure how to search for this honestly

[18:03:57]

jams:

thats not it..one moment

[18:08:17]

benklop:

darn, disabling access to the drive does not keep myth from asking me if I want to select it

[18:08:33]

benklop:

that's probably also classifiable a bug...

[18:12:31]

ctmjr:

jams: that was it i had a dvd in one of the drives, removed it renamed gallery.xml back to original and it loads correctly now i will turn off monitor thanks it was driving me crazy

[18:13:58]

benklop:

ctmjr: glad you figured it out :)

[18:14:51]

jams:

benklop- sorry work calls be back in abit

[18:15:27]

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[18:15:30]

jams:

if I rmember correctly the ticket should be around sept-oct of this year

[18:15:41]

benklop:

ok, thanks

[18:17:14]

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[18:18:37]

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[18:19:00]

javatexan:

hey guys, anyone have any luck with Directv and mythtv...I have the HD-H21–200

[18:20:55]

ctmjr:

benklop: me too i was looking in every xml file i could find. i could have lived with it by renaming the gallery xml as i do not use the image gallery much . but i get something stuck in my head and i have to figure out why it is doing it

[18:21:55]

benklop:

ctmjr: me too – that's why mythtv is so great and yet the bane of my existance – its so complex there's always something to fix

[18:22:00]

benklop:

drives my wife crazy

[18:22:44]

Dibblah:

... Which is why Myth should have approximately 10x fewer settings.

[18:24:02]

Essobi:

Hehehe

[18:25:28]

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[18:25:53]

sid3windr:

yup

[18:25:55]

wagnerrp:

blasphamy... taking away our precious settings

[18:26:01]

sid3windr:

as long as the hardcoded values are exactly how I want it

[18:26:04]

sid3windr:

and not how the developers want it

[18:26:05]

sid3windr:

ala gnome :>

[18:26:16]

sid3windr:

we should all be sid3windrs!

[18:28:20]

iamlindoro:

I saw a forum post yesterday about how "each release of myth has fewer features"

[18:28:24]

iamlindoro:

news to me

[18:28:31]

javatexan:

lol

[18:29:08]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: well, you did remove the PVR-350 TV Out support! Clearly that means 0.22 has less than 0.21!

[18:29:25]

wagnerrp:

and dbox

[18:29:46]

Greek-Boy:

PVR-350 TV Out removed???

[18:29:57]

iamlindoro:

let the burnination continue

[18:30:13]

devinheitmueller:

Oh wait, that came after the 0.22 release, right? Yeah, it's out in 0.23.

[18:30:16]

wagnerrp:

the framebuffer output still exists, but there is no built in support for the 350 hardware decodre

[18:30:20]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: yeah

[18:30:30]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: therefore .23 < .22 ;)

[18:30:36]

devinheitmueller:

yup.

[18:30:57]

devinheitmueller:

Greek-Boy: Yup. Go buy yourself a $20 Nvidia card with VDPAU and S-Video out.

[18:31:19]

benklop:

lol

[18:31:30]

benklop:

actually I really need to do exactly that

[18:31:41]

benklop:

i'm killing my older frontend...

[18:32:01]

Greek-Boy:

lol

[18:32:05]

Greek-Boy:

can't argue with that

[18:32:06]

Greek-Boy:

hehehe

[18:32:21]

** Dibblah seriously recommends the GT220s. **

[18:32:29]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, the maintenance cost on the code was just too high, and the cards are so dirt cheap there isn't much point in supporting the really old hardware.

[18:32:43]

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[18:33:14]

Greek-Boy:

makes sense

[18:33:38]

benklop:

Dibblah: i need something in the dirt cheap range, and also just pci

[18:33:45]

devinheitmueller:

But hey, if you've got a five-year-old PC with a PVR-350, you can just not upgrade to 0.23.

[18:34:53]

Greek-Boy:

does anybody know of a modern board with lots of pci slots?

[18:34:59]

Greek-Boy:

minimum 4

[18:36:13]

Dagmar:

www.newegg.com

[18:36:17]

Dagmar:

Use their search engine.

[18:36:33]

wagnerrp:

theres only going to be one or two, not a difficult choice

[18:36:46]

Dagmar:

If you try to get one with more than four, you'd damn well better know what your'e doing because it's likely to cause problems

[18:36:56]

wagnerrp:

what do you need a modern board with that many PCI slots for?

[18:37:16]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: They want to post complaints to forums about how IRQ sharing fails

[18:37:29]

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[18:37:30]

wagnerrp:

ah, that old trick

[18:37:53]

Sound:

hehe

[18:38:50]

Greek-Boy:

on a serious note, I need it because I have two sat dishes that I get FTA channels on...

[18:38:59]

Greek-Boy:

and I have four DVB-S2 cards

[18:39:18]

Greek-Boy:

on each sat i wanna be able to watch a channel and record another simultaneously...

[18:39:20]

Greek-Boy:

hope that makes sense

[18:39:21]

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[18:40:19]

Greek-Boy:

newegg ships to USA only :-(

[18:40:24]

javatexan:

wow, here is some cool stuff http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/

[18:40:39]

devinheitmueller:

javatexan: not supported under Linux.

[18:40:47]

Dagmar:

Oh noes! they only ship to the US?

[18:40:48]

javatexan:

doh!!!

[18:40:56]

Dagmar:

I guess that makes it impossible to use their search engine, too

[18:40:57]

devinheitmueller:

Well, let me rephrase: only supported under Linux with their SDK, and not V4L compliant by any means.

[18:41:12]

Dagmar:

Search NewEgg

[18:41:19]

devinheitmueller:

javatexan: and it enforces HDCP.

[18:41:28]

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[18:42:03]

javatexan:

so silly....So i guess VCRs are now outlawed as well?

[18:42:13]

devinheitmueller:

javatexan: if they don't have DRM, yes.

[18:43:10]

devinheitmueller:

It's pretty amazing. The market for the $35 piece of equipment you could buy at any Walmart as been replaced by the $300 piece of equipment with a $17.95 subscription, or a cable company provided DVR for $10 / month.

[18:43:30]

javatexan:

I know....it stinks

[18:43:45]

devinheitmueller:

At least the FCC has finally acknowledged how screwed up the situation is: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/ . . . ing-else.ars

[18:43:49]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: i heard they actually do have linux drivers for their HDMI framegrabber

[18:44:03]

wagnerrp:

but its not a V4L driver, it only works with their program or something

[18:44:07]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: they have a closed-source binary driver with it's own API. It's not V4L.

[18:44:10]

devinheitmueller:

yes.

[18:44:43]

wagnerrp:

either way, you would need an HDCP stripper to do anything useful (to us) with it

[18:44:55]

javatexan:

wow

[18:46:35]

Greek-Boy:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128406

[18:46:39]

Greek-Boy:

that board has 4 PCI slots

[18:46:44]

Greek-Boy:

and it supports i7

[18:47:07]

wagnerrp:

again i ask, what do you need that many PCI slots for?

[18:47:43]

wagnerrp:

if you already have the cards, you likely already have the PC too

[18:47:59]

wagnerrp:

and its not like a backend needs a whole lot of power, so theres no need to upgrade

[18:48:32]

Greek-Boy:

I need four feeds

[18:48:43]

Greek-Boy:

if i coud find a board with 8 pci slots i would get it

[18:48:49]

Greek-Boy:

to have everything in just one back end

[18:48:52]

wagnerrp:

four... analog feeds?

[18:48:59]

Greek-Boy:

DVB-S2

[18:49:13]

wagnerrp:

so get a pair of PCIe dual tuners

[18:55:05]

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[18:55:28]

Sound:

I guess that with three Hauppauge T 500 I could record 6 multiplexes simultaneously, am I right?

[18:55:46]

wagnerrp:

correct

[18:55:57]

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[18:56:31]

Sound:

wagnerrp: I guess the bottleneck would then be disk I/O bandwidth

[18:56:49]

wagnerrp:

not likely

[18:56:52]

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[18:56:57]

wagnerrp:

each multiplex might be... 30mbps?

[18:57:08]

wagnerrp:

thats <4MB/s

[18:57:27]

wagnerrp:

modern hard drives push 60+MB/s at their slowest

[18:57:31]

wagnerrp:

peaking at over 130MB/s

[18:57:48]

** Sound should do arithmetics on his own before saying stupid things **

[18:58:55]

wagnerrp:

the real issue is that recording multiple shows simultaneously to a single file system, youre going to end up with heavy fragmentation

[18:59:14]

oobe:

Sound more than 6 you can actually tell it to make 3 or 4 virtual tuners but i doubt you would want to record 3 or 4 channels on same multiplex

[18:59:16]

Sound:

so, recording 6 multiplexes on a single box (that is, 20+ channels) would work flawlessly on an average system?

[18:59:37]

Dagmar:

No..

[18:59:54]

Dagmar:

On an average system it wouldn't work for crap because the user couldn't be bothered to load the right firmware

[18:59:54]

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[18:59:58]

Dagmar:

On a GOOD system it would probably work

[19:00:08]

oobe:

lol

[19:00:31]

Dagmar:

No one in their right mind is going to make you any promises about trying to record twnety channels at once

[19:00:32]

Sound:

wagnerrp: interesting issue; that could be resolved by pointing each one to a different partition

[19:00:43]

Dagmar:

There is no legal reason I can think of to do that

[19:01:03]

Sound:

Dagmar: heh, I'm not seeking for promises :)

[19:02:17]

wagnerrp:

Sound: could be, but its generally better just to grab 2–3 drives, rather than just the one big one

[19:02:45]

Dagmar:

I have doubts disk throughput

[19:02:45]

wagnerrp:

which actually works out for the best, since 3–4 1–1.5TB drives are cheaper than 2 2TB drives

[19:03:04]

Sound:

so if I record 10 channels on a single system, I could record 30 channels with an expense of $3K (storage excluded)

[19:03:24]

wagnerrp:

you could probably do it on a system <$1K

[19:03:41]

Sound:

wagnerrp: 30 channels with <$1K?

[19:03:51]

wagnerrp:

but youve got to have somewhere to dump that 90 days of data

[19:04:21]

wagnerrp:

its all digital, so the recordings are all stream copies

[19:04:35]

Sound:

wagnerrp: yeah, I was estimating the expense for recording hardware

[19:05:04]

Sound:

wagnerrp: did you say that I could record 30 channels simultaneously at <$1K?

[19:05:11]

trumee:

guys, is it possible to split LNB input into two to use two DVB-S devices at the same time?

[19:05:37]

wagnerrp:

Sound: well it would probably be closer to $1500

[19:05:50]

wagnerrp:

since you would either need two systems, or a bunch of more expensive HDHomeRun tuners

[19:05:57]

wagnerrp:

just to fit sufficient cards

[19:06:42]

Sound:

wagnerrp: oh right, I forgot about the HDHomeRun advice

[19:06:54]

trumee:

can an LNB input be split into two, like it is possible for a cable feed?

[19:07:48]

benklop:

Dagmar: apparently i'm doing all sorts of things with VMs and mythtv that nobody would promise wouldd work or even ever try...

[19:07:53]

Greek-Boy:

trumee: Yes it can

[19:08:11]

Dagmar:

benklop: Most people probably would have more sense to just use actual hardware

[19:08:23]

Greek-Boy:

record 30 channels? oh my goodness...

[19:08:32]

wagnerrp:

once you start using VMs, all bets are off

[19:08:43]

wagnerrp:

and you really need to reconsider the reasons you are using VMs

[19:08:53]

benklop:

yep, but i've always been a gambler when it doesn't cost me actual money

[19:09:07]

Dagmar:

Yeah, I'm having trouble seeing how someone recording 30 channels shouldn't be just hiring someone to do their research for them

[19:09:16]

Dagmar:

...or managing their legal fees.

[19:09:16]

benklop:

wagnerrp: of course, i'd agree that its better to use a few low power machines

[19:09:31]

benklop:

wagnerrp: but i have more time on my hands than money at this moment

[19:09:39]

trumee:

Greek-Boy, so i can simply split the incoming signal with something like this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Way-TV-SKY-NTL-Coaxia . . . m2c520a334b?

[19:10:05]

Sound:

wagnerrp: was multirec support for HDHomeRun added recently? The MythTV wiki states that "the current version of the MythTV 0.21 does not yet support" it

[19:10:08]

wagnerrp:

benklop: no, im saying you shouldnt be using full VMs for nearly any purpose

[19:10:17]

trumee:

Greek-Boy, this page says it cant be done, http://www.avforums.com/forums/freesat/804655 . . . lit-sat.html ?

[19:10:19]

wagnerrp:

Sound: got added some number of months back

[19:10:29]

wagnerrp:

and there was a patch against 0.21 for it close to the beginning of the year

[19:10:51]

Sound:

wagnerrp: so it's still unreleased?

[19:11:11]

wagnerrp:

Sound: got added to trunk some months prior to its release with 0.22

[19:11:36]

Sound:

wagnerrp: great!

[19:11:47]

wagnerrp:

benklop: the ONLY reasons to run a full VM is if you either want to run a different operating system or kernel, or if you need something like live migration

[19:12:05]

wagnerrp:

aside from those two specific scenarios, they are overkill

[19:12:26]

Greek-Boy:

VM for mythtv?

[19:12:49]

benklop:

wagnerrp: well, i do actually have a need for that in one case, but myth could run on the base system if this actually causes me any real issues

[19:13:23]

Greek-Boy:

trumee: If it couldn't be done I wouldn't be sharing one of my FTA dishes with another three apartments...

[19:13:51]

benklop:

Greek-Boy: yeah, i'm trying it in xen for no apparently particularly good reason

[19:14:18]

trumee:

Greek-Boy, does it not require a dual lnb?

[19:14:22]

Dagmar:

If you've got an antenna on a stick, it should be able to be split, although it might need an amp/choke

[19:14:46]

Greek-Boy:

benklop: great, nothing wrong with trying things. After all, this is open source spirit :-)

[19:14:46]

Dagmar:

IF you're talking an LNB for a big dish, they can't be split because something's gotta be in control of the H/V rotor thingie

[19:15:00]

Greek-Boy:

trumee: No, it doesn't...

[19:15:07]

wagnerrp:

if you just want VMs for ease of maintenance, just chroot a whole OS install and mount dev/proc

[19:15:34]

wagnerrp:

if you want VMs for security and isolation, jails/vservers/containers are what you want to look in to

[19:15:37]

benklop:

Greek-Boy: that's my feeling exactly. sure it's not garunteed to work and most people aren't surprised that i'm having some small issues, but come on... its only TV. i'm doing this for fun.

[19:15:48]

Dagmar:

Being that most of the hard problems that involve MythTV are all issues of some form of I/O, a VM is typically going to solve no problems while merely adding new ones.

[19:15:52]

Dagmar:

It's win win, clearly

[19:16:05]

Dagmar:

Much more sanitary than flogging yourself with barbed wire, too

[19:16:22]

trumee:

Dagmar, Greek-Boy, what i want is that a dish with a single lnb cable be fed into two dvb-s2 pci cards. This will let me record two channels at once.

[19:16:40]

Sound:

is there a plugin or a built-in feature to overlay date and time over recordings?

[19:17:03]

benklop:

Dagmar: ok, yes.. but it turns out the problems I was having were because I was also putting my storage on another machine via NFS

[19:17:05]

Greek-Boy:

Dagmar: I dont have a rotor or a DiSEqC switch. I wouldn't be able to comment on those..

[19:17:16]

Dagmar:

trumee: No multiplexing?

[19:17:28]

benklop:

Dagmar: Disabling that made it work pretty much as well as it always did on a regular box

[19:17:37]

Greek-Boy:

trumee: It should work, just try it bud

[19:18:06]

trumee:

Dagmar, what do you mean?

[19:18:17]

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[19:18:31]

trumee:

Dagmar, the source is from the same satellite. with a subscriber card.

[19:19:11]

Dagmar:

trumee: The recieving equipment is generally picking up multiple channels at once, and just discarding the parts for the channels you're not "watching"

[19:19:24]

Greek-Boy:

exactly

[19:19:34]

Dagmar:

Myth can record multiple channels at once in tehse cases, with one tuner card, provided all the involved channels are of the same multiplex ID

[19:19:35]

Greek-Boy:

hence the reason why it is possible to split that singal

[19:19:54]

Greek-Boy:

or do multiplexing

[19:19:56]

Greek-Boy:

:P

[19:19:58]

Dagmar:

Well, no, antenna signals (when they are "dumb" signals) can be split anyway

[19:20:22]

Dagmar:

Assuming the antenna has no fiddly H/V piece and only needs to "just listen"

[19:20:27]

trumee:

Dagmar, i would like to record channels which are different transponders, if that is what you mean.

[19:20:42]

Dagmar:

Well, that'll need two cards and some research then

[19:21:12]

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[19:21:14]

Nidhoegger:

hi

[19:21:21]

Nidhoegger:

ive got a little issue with mythtv, i have many films downloaded from online tv recorder (its legal here) and want to add it to mythtv, but i want to add it to mythtv, ive changed the mediathek path to /home/user/mythtv/movies and copied my films in there

[19:21:26]

Nidhoegger:

but mythtv doesnt show them

[19:21:30]

Nidhoegger:

how do i get mythtv to show them

[19:21:49]

trumee:

Dagmar, Greek-Boy:apparently, the tv company gives a dual lnb if the user wants to connect to two STBs.

[19:21:54]

bradd_:

menu->scan

[19:22:01]

bradd_:

under watch videos

[19:22:11]

Dagmar:

trumee: Even better

[19:22:20]

Greek-Boy:

Dagmar: I have a 8-port lnb on one of my dishes :-)

[19:22:24]

Nidhoegger:

which menu?

[19:22:46]

bradd_:

no..the menu button on your remote..or M on the keyboard

[19:23:01]

Nidhoegger:

thx

[19:23:10]

trumee:

Greek-Boy, is 2 port lnb compatible with any type of dish. is it a generic component which i can buy off ebay?

[19:23:19]

Nidhoegger:

there is no scan

[19:23:23]

Nidhoegger:

just about and exit

[19:24:05]

Greek-Boy:

trumee: I think so but I also think that it has to be compatible with the band... C-band or KU-Band?

[19:24:09]

Nidhoegger:

ahhh my fault

[19:24:11]

Nidhoegger:

got it, thx

[19:24:22]

trumee:

Greek-Boy, it is KU-Band

[19:24:41]

Greek-Boy:

well read the specs on the ebay page and just make sure its compatible with KU-Band

[19:24:47]

Greek-Boy:

just to be sure

[19:25:14]

Greek-Boy:

splitters are cheap man, why dont u just try split it first?

[19:25:19]

Greek-Boy:

see if it works for u

[19:25:25]

Greek-Boy:

it works for me on C-Band

[19:25:48]

Greek-Boy:

the weird thing for me is that on my dish I am only able to pickup horizontal channels and not vertical...still troubleshooting that problem.

[19:26:04]

Dagmar:

Right what did I say about H/v

[19:26:24]

Dagmar:

That's a physical component in the LNB that actually has to be in one orientation or the other

[19:26:45]

Dagmar:

If you have to change that, as far as I know you can't "just" split the signal from the antenna or it won't work

[19:27:17]

Dagmar:

Little dish stuff in the US is more like antenna-on-a-stick

[19:27:23]

Dagmar:

afaik

[19:27:43]

Greek-Boy:

hmmm

[19:27:46]

Greek-Boy:

makes sense

[19:27:57]

Greek-Boy:

so if I want to have h/v i should be using a multi-port LNB

[19:28:09]

Dagmar:

Yep, far as I know

[19:28:11]

Greek-Boy:

instead of splitting

[19:28:23]

Dagmar:

It's possible someone's found a way to get around that, but I don't think so

[19:28:48]

Greek-Boy:

well my neighbours just need H

[19:28:51]

Greek-Boy:

i need H/V

[19:28:51]

Dagmar:

My parents have one of those lovely complicated big-dish system

[19:28:59]

Greek-Boy:

so i'll split the one port

[19:29:02]

Dagmar:

I keep having to go fix it now and then

[19:29:04]

Greek-Boy:

and use the one port for myself :P

[19:29:22]

Dagmar:

Who'd have thought knowing how to use an astrolabe could ever possibly come in handy nowadays

[19:30:46]

Greek-Boy:

hahaha

[19:30:52]

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[19:31:01]

Greek-Boy:

Dagmar: Where in USA are u at?

[19:31:09]

Dagmar:

SE region

[19:31:20]

Greek-Boy:

i see

[19:31:35]

Greek-Boy:

is MythTV popular there?

[19:31:39]

Greek-Boy:

i guess it needs more exposure

[19:31:47]

Dagmar:

This is redneck country

[19:31:49]

Greek-Boy:

when its discovered it will be the asterisk of TV

[19:31:53]

trumee:

Dagmar, which a 2 port LNB, do two cable come down from the dish. And i can plug these cables directly to two dvb-s2 devices?

[19:32:16]

Dagmar:

trumee: If it's "2-port" what do you think that means?

[19:32:29]

Greek-Boy:

lol

[19:32:43]

trumee:

Dagmar, i dont know satellites at all. only understand cable :)

[19:32:54]

Greek-Boy:

Dagmar: If you want to use just one cable get a DiSEqC switch

[19:32:56]

Dagmar:

Okay, so Wikipedia actually has a crapton about it

[19:33:09]

Greek-Boy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiSEqC

[19:33:26]

Dagmar:

Pop terms like that DiSEqC into Google and so on until the confusion goes away

[19:33:39]

Greek-Boy:

and see these diagrams: http://www.galaxy-marketing.com/images/diseqc6.jpg

[19:34:14]

Greek-Boy:

http://www.andersoncom.com/diseqc/diseqc_diagram.jpg

[19:34:41]

Greek-Boy:

with a DiSEqC switch u could have just on receiver for everything if u want...

[19:35:09]

Greek-Boy:

but I wonder how u could get multiple streams from that...

[19:35:17]

trumee:

Greek-Boy, the satellite installed by the provider is fixed. it does not have a rotor.

[19:35:23]

henrik__:

okej next wikipedia question.. searched but could net find the answere, I'm using .22, and when I search use the epg search I can find shows, but it only says the date, not the day. ie, 4/12–2009 Idol, but cause I'm stupid I would like it to say as id did in .21 friday 4/12–2009. where in the code can I change taht?

[19:35:23]

Greek-Boy:

for multiple STB's or recording streams on MythTV

[19:35:44]

Dagmar:

Wow.

[19:35:53]

trumee:

Greek-Boy, it is locked to a single satellite, somethink like sky.

[19:35:54]

Dagmar:

Comcast looking to buy 51% of NBC

[19:36:09]

Dagmar:

Holy crap will the FCC and the DoJ get interested in that

[19:36:35]

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[19:36:35]

Dagmar:

You can bet your ass Hulu will disappear behind a pay wall if that hapens

[19:36:37]

Greek-Boy:

trumee: the point of DiSEqC is not just for rotor, read carefully

[19:36:37]

benklop:

devinheitmueller: thanks for the article link, that finally gives me some hope

[19:36:54]

Greek-Boy:

Dagmar: U into stocks? :P

[19:38:34]

Dagmar:

No, I'm into gold.

[19:38:36]

henrik__:

why would departmen of justice even care, sure nbc is a big network, but still.. they paid enough for the obama campaign..

[19:38:37]

trumee:

Greek-Boy, is DiSEq same as LNB, the wikipedia article doesnt talk about lnb?

[19:38:53]

henrik__:

now fox4 would not pull it off ;)

[19:38:59]

Dagmar:

If I want to gamble, Vegas has better strippers than E*Trade

[19:39:20]

Greek-Boy:

trumee: the diagram should speak for itself bro

[19:40:12]

trumee:

Greek-Boy, is LNB the splitter in the centre, http://www.andersoncom.com/diseqc/diseqc_diagram.jpg?

[19:40:31]

Dagmar:

Have you looked at what these acronyms stand for?

[19:40:32]

henrik__:

Greek-Boy, Dagmar have you found solution for my question?

[19:40:33]

benklop:

Dagmar: that scares me...

[19:40:42]

Dagmar:

You're not going to get very far if you don't look up what they mean

[19:41:09]

Dagmar:

That's not a question you should have even had to ask

[19:41:22]

Dagmar:

it should ahve been obvious from looking at the picture

[19:42:20]

trumee:

Dagmar, well the image doesnt say what an lnb is, does it?

[19:42:32]

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[19:43:23]

Sound:

does MythTV support recording from a stream, such as a VLC stream?

[19:43:40]

henrik__:

trumee lnb is the eye that collects the signal from the sat.

[19:44:00]

trumee:

henrik__, thanks now i inderstand it.

[19:44:41]

Dagmar:

Wow this news article that was linked is really weak

[19:44:58]

Dagmar:

The author's IQ must be in the double-digits.

[19:45:27]

henrik__:

Dagmar, you got me.. I wrote it ;)

[19:45:48]

henrik__:

I'm down to singel digit...

[19:46:32]

Dagmar:

Well, I mean like, hey great, he can somewhat accurately report things which have happened

[19:46:44]

Dagmar:

He can spell and use correct grammar and stuff, so good for him

[19:47:03]

Dagmar:

On the other hand, he can't make accurate deductions based on these observations to save his f**king life

[19:47:27]

Dagmar:

...and he can't even seem to draw accurate conclusions on the why of things that have already happened.

[19:48:07]

Dagmar:

There's a reason he doesn't mention the actual, stated purpose of the CableCard regulations, and that's because it would make him look like an idiot.

[19:48:28]

Dagmar:

In short, they were supposed to decouple cable programming from set top boxes which are completely controlled by the cable company

[19:48:43]

Dagmar:

Tehy did not work because cable companies basically said "No, we refuse

[19:48:45]

Dagmar:

"

[19:49:06]

Dagmar:

This tru2way thing is utter bullshit and completely _not_ a replacement for that, but he talks about it as if it were

[19:49:13]

Dagmar:

Tru2way doesn't decouple a damn thing from anything

[19:50:41]

Dagmar:

It means you'll be allowed the privledge of tuning in cable on your X-Box instead of the STB, but that the cable company will still control EVERY TINY BIT OF IT

[19:50:58]

Dagmar:

If they want to show you commercials while you look at the program guide, it'll be their choise to make, not yours

[19:51:21]

Dagmar:

If you want to record anything, you'll have to rent PVR functionality from them

[19:51:40]

Dagmar:

It's a complete waste of money and time

[19:51:52]

Dagmar:

...and it will do f**k all to promote innovation.

[19:52:20]

Dagmar:

This current generation of PVR like devices, TiVo, Replay, etc. will likely be the _last_

[19:52:40]

benklop:

Dagmar: at least i still have my antenna

[19:52:53]

benklop:

and that stuff isn't encrypted

[19:53:23]

Dagmar:

Give it time

[19:54:43]

wagnerrp:

BBC is already trying to pull that one of on their side of the pond

[19:55:01]

Dagmar:

I'll probably write up an extended article on this crap later tonight and put it on Memestreams

[19:55:13]

henrik__:

Dagmar, I dont like the evolution of this.. I'm not that much in to the us market, since I live in sweden.. However our system is abit more liberal than yours. My provider does not care for witch topbox I use, they have some that they approve, but in the contract it states that as long as I pay for a subscription it's up to me. So using mythtv with softcam cardreader is ok by my provider.

[19:55:18]

Dagmar:

Should be interesting to see how long it takes Comcast to go messing with my lines. Heh

[19:55:43]

Dagmar:

henrik__: That's because they're not all hell-bent on obtaining and entrenching a monopoly over there

[19:55:56]

Dagmar:

This is the same reason most of the world has better cell phones than in the US

[19:56:16]

Dagmar:

Innovation was actually allowed to happen instead of being sold off piecemeal to monopolists.

[19:56:51]

henrik__:

so I called my isp about sasc-ng, and asked them if it was ok as long as I was using their card, the guy i was talking with was in to the technoligy and looked with their leagal department and had no problem with me using sasc-ng newcs to get the chanels on mythtv

[19:57:08]

benklop:

Dagmar: i agree with everything you're saying, but .. you're not an optimist are you? ;)

[19:57:21]

Dagmar:

No, I'm a psychopathic realist

[19:57:21]

henrik__:

cell phone?? you use ours; nokia is from Finland, ericsson from sweden..

[19:57:31]

Dagmar:

henrik__: Exactly my point

[19:57:41]

Dagmar:

Motorola could almost be called a US company, and they try really hard

[19:58:00]

henrik__:

motorola is an us company, but they only sell in us

[19:58:11]

Dagmar:

...but most of the time when they make a phone the cell carriers here tell them "We'll use it, but you have to let us f**k up the firmware first"

[19:58:23]

henrik__:

lol :D

[19:58:34]

Dagmar:

I'm not kidding. They've gotten sued over it

[19:58:48]

henrik__:

I know about the iphone and at&t

[19:58:51]

benklop:

who has?

[19:58:52]

Dagmar:

Around the time the Razr came out they ran ads talking about all the cool stuff you could do with Bluetooth

[19:59:32]

Dagmar:

...then all teh cell phone providers took those features which are a normal part of Bluetooth operation and basically clipped them out of the firmware, only to be reenabled (and poorly) if you paid a premium for the "service" of say, OBEX file transfers

[19:59:41]

wagnerrp:

henrik__: look at all the phones that you can successfully pair with a computer

[19:59:51]

henrik__:

I don't wan't to bad mouth americans, but There was a test where they asked 50 000 americans about mobile brands.. the #1 manufacturer in the us was AT&T according to the guys who was asked.

[19:59:54]

wagnerrp:

look at the whole palm treo and wifi thing

[20:00:00]

Dagmar:

...because OBEX file transfers meant you could send the pictures your phone took to your Bluetooth-enabled desktop and/or printer for free.

[20:00:18]

Dagmar:

...without them you would pay fees to the cell phone company to send the picture over their CDPD network.

[20:00:35]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: What about it. They're literally the last people making cell phones with wifi

[20:00:47]

Dagmar:

Palm and HTC

[20:00:58]

clever:

Dagmar: my grandma's phone has bluetooth, but no obex, other then internet, its imposible to get the damn photos out of the thing

[20:01:00]

wagnerrp:

the treo never had wifi

[20:01:02]

Dagmar:

Granted, more than half their phones DON'T do both, but at least one product in each line has

[20:01:20]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: The 800w I have in my pocket does

[20:01:23]

Dagmar:

I'm using it without a data plan.

[20:01:38]

henrik__:

I have had my phone for almost 2 years now.. sonyericsson p1i, it has wifi and bluetooth, thats all I need :P

[20:01:47]

Dagmar:

...although the Windows Mobile on it is such an embarassment I may well call Palm and let them offer me money to take it back, and go buy an unbundled Pre

[20:02:05]

Dagmar:

It is literally a steaming pile of shit that can't do anything correctly.

[20:02:29]

Dagmar:

...btu I can most of the time make and recieve calls with it, and it can run KeepPassPPC, which is it's other requirement

[20:03:08]

benklop:

Dagmar: exactly why I don't think i will buy another HTC device unless it has android on it, but i'm more likely to get a pre or the nokia thing

[20:03:13]

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[20:03:29]

Dagmar:

The only reason I don't already have a Pre is because Sprint won't sell you one without a data plan

[20:03:51]

Dagmar:

I'm not paying another thirty bucks a month for something I don't need because there's wifi everywhere I go

[20:04:06]

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[20:04:40]

Dagmar:

I grew up in this city and have an excellent sense of direction. I know how to read maps. I do not get lost here, ever, and only seldom in other cities. I don't need GPS mapping every second of hte day

[20:04:42]

benklop:

Dagmar: same

[20:05:09]

Dagmar:

I ain't checking my email when I'm driving because I'm not an idiot

[20:05:36]

Dagmar:

...but they figure people will pay the extra $30/month because there's no other option

[20:05:38]

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[20:05:55]

Dagmar:

Monopolists.

[20:06:21]

benklop:

heh. I agree there is nothing good about so many of these companies...

[20:06:38]

benklop:

there was a mention of SASC-NG above, what is that? it looks compelling ...

[20:07:37]

wagnerrp:

card sharing, generally a topic considered off limits in this channel

[20:08:03]

Dagmar:

I've a bad feeling about it because they don't seem to be willing to actually say WTF it does on their site

[20:08:12]

Dagmar:

I've been looking for the last five minutes

[20:08:23]

henrik__:

I'm sorry for even bring it up.. It was just a reference to the legual department of my subscription..

[20:08:33]

Dagmar:

I see the word "loopback" being bandied about tho', and that's probably not good

[20:08:50]

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[20:09:43]

henrik__:

Dagmar, may I pm you?

[20:10:31]

Dagmar:

I suppose, just know that many questions about that thing that was mentioned will simply go ignored

[20:10:44]

Dagmar:

Finally I find a page that says WTF it is

[20:11:36]

justinh:

you know what – as *soon* as somebody even *mentions* banned topics in here a bot should kick em

[20:12:07]

iamlindoro is now known as botbotbot

[20:12:13]

** botbotbot glares meanly **

[20:12:17]

justinh:

people coming in here, asking about decryption in software, in a logged channel.. of a project trying to keep its nose clean..

[20:12:27]

justinh:

the channel has rules for damn good reason

[20:12:52]

botbotbot is now known as iamlindoro

[20:13:25]

justinh:

oh and add deleting lines containing said banned subjects from the log to the bot's capacities :)

[20:13:35]

iamlindoro:

I'll happily kick people for discussing banned topics, just need to be looking at the screen when it happens

[20:13:36]

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[20:14:12]

justinh:

even the linux stb channels do that on the merest mention of such things, I heard

[20:14:16]

justinh:

ahem

[20:14:32]

AndyCap:

linux stb?

[20:14:39]

justinh:

dreambox et al

[20:14:41]

AndyCap:

oh

[20:14:49]

AndyCap:

was thinking motorola 5000

[20:15:05]

justinh:

no, *proper* linux STBs

[20:15:12]

justinh:

not grey market hackery

[20:15:16]

clever:

justinh: got more info?

[20:15:28]

justinh:

dream-multimedia.de etc

[20:15:58]

justinh:

doubt any of them would make for a nice mythfrontend either, being that they all have so little RAM :P

[20:16:28]

justinh:

unless you'd be happy with Iulius as your theme :D

[20:16:28]

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[20:16:47]

AndyCap:

justinh: I wouldn't call an official linux stb grey marked hackery, but I don't think anyone gets to hack it either. :P

[20:17:01]

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[20:17:19]

justinh:

so that's not the thing which ends up being called 'r5000' then?

[20:18:06]

AndyCap:

don't think so. it'a motorola cable box called DCT5000, it's a few years old now. has mediacipher and well, acts like any other stb. but it runs linux

[20:18:33]

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[20:18:35]

justinh:

I think a hell of a lot of cable & satellite gear probably does under the hood

[20:18:37]

AndyCap:

http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/deta . . . page=archive heh, 8 years old actually

[20:18:50]

AndyCap:

justinh: well, it's cheap.

[20:18:52]

justinh:

then they go & spoil it all by slapping a bunch of middleware on

[20:18:55]

clever:

ive got a dct something

[20:19:23]

justinh:

I had a dbox2 for a while. it was nifty for what it was

[20:20:02]

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[20:20:09]

justinh:

blisteringly nice compared to ordinary cable & sat boxes – i.e. what providers give out. linux, directfb & little else

[20:21:03]

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[20:22:23]

AndyCap:

Need to get my dish back up, looked at the rates my cable company wants for the free to air channels. Highway robbery

[20:22:42]

justinh:

one thing that lets all these STB & NMT devices down is their AWFUL DOG SLOW UI

[20:23:13]

justinh:

like when I press buttons I want stuff to happen round about now, not in 200ms time

[20:23:21]

justinh:

or more

[20:23:27]

Dagmar:

But...but... if it weren't slow, you wouldn't spend as much time looking at the ads they force onto your screen

[20:23:51]

clever:

my STB is slow as hell

[20:23:55]

justinh:

what ads?

[20:24:36]

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[20:24:42]

AndyCap:

Dagmar: ads in the stb interface? or just that you can't escape the current channel quickly enough

[20:24:44]

clever:

the old software used to have 2 ad like buttons on most screens

[20:24:49]

AndyCap:

oh my

[20:24:55]

clever:

either with tips on how to make the remote work, or for the ocasional show

[20:25:04]

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[20:25:37]

justinh:

advertising space on STB UIs has actually been patented

[20:25:47]

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[20:26:02]

AndyCap:

justinh: is that a philips patent too?

[20:26:38]

justinh:

Sky I believe

[20:26:49]

czth:

I managed to add an EXEC menu item to launch xbmc (copied library.xml to ~/.mythtv and added a <button>), but I couldn't find info on providing an image (so it says "no image available"). I've searched around, found some stuff about <buttondef> that appears to be obsolete. Pointers?

[20:26:50]

justinh:

for showing while fast forwarding through ads

[20:27:19]

justinh:

czth: button images are defined in menu-ui.xml

[20:27:35]

justinh:

#mythtv-theming is more the place to discuss that

[20:27:42]

justinh:

and yes, I *know* I'm not in there

[20:27:58]

iamlindoro:

Yuck, don't send people who just want to hack their menus to us

[20:28:14]

czth:

will join, thanks

[20:28:23]

justinh:

whoops

[20:28:31]

justinh:

rm -rf concept

[20:28:34]

iamlindoro:

Sigh, channel was pleasantly tolerable while it lasted

[20:28:42]

czth:

will leave, no thanks :P

[20:28:50]

AndyCap:

#mythtv-b-ark ?

[20:28:51]

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[20:28:55]

justinh:

heh editing a menu is the start of the slippery slope :D

[20:29:35]

czth:

justinh: a 'type=icon' entry, right? I believe I tried that too. It acted oddly, but perhaps because the image was a .jpg. Does it only like .pngs?

[20:29:46]

czth:

(corresponding with the <type> in the <button>)

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[20:39:08]

czth:

yeah, working theory is i should have used a .png. can't test until i get home though, since i only have ssh access from here.

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[20:44:38]

Greek-Boy:

how do the MythTV developers feel about companies that seek to provide support and services for MythTV?

[20:46:19]

wagnerrp:

its been done in the past

[20:46:27]

wagnerrp:

pluto home is partially based on mythtv

[20:46:34]

czth:

why should they care?

[20:46:48]

wagnerrp:

and there have been several companies at some point or another which have produced retail mythtv boxes

[20:47:11]

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[20:47:33]

Greek-Boy:

i see

[20:47:47]

Greek-Boy:

well, I dont see anything wrong with it provided these companies respect the license

[20:48:23]

Greek-Boy:

and it will be good if they distribute free of charge

[20:48:29]

czth:

respect ma authorit^Wlicense!

[20:48:40]

Greek-Boy:

the business model should be hardware, technical support and services...

[20:48:44]

iamlindoro:

They can sell it and nobody will even care

[20:49:25]

** justinh laughs **

[20:49:27]

Greek-Boy:

do u think MythTV will ever enter a "content management" scenario

[20:49:30]

Greek-Boy:

such as in hotels

[20:49:33]

justinh:

technical support for mythtv. heheheh

[20:49:38]

justinh:

good luck with that

[20:49:49]

Greek-Boy:

and content distribution

[20:49:51]

justinh:

companies have looked into raping mythtv before

[20:50:04]

wagnerrp:

there have been several people in here over the years wanting to set up one form of large scale DVR or another

[20:50:17]

iamlindoro:

There are already hotels, hospitals, etc. using MythTV

[20:50:24]

justinh:

once they get the "oh you'll have to sort out the codec licensing yourself, yada yada yada" into their head.. FAIL

[20:50:30]

iamlindoro:

if you're asking if the project will ever distribute dontent, I found it profoundly doubtful

[20:50:36]

Dagmar:

Until some hotels start ponying up money for somethign, they can eff off

[20:50:57]

Dagmar:

Talk like that will make me start releasing work under a "You can't make money off this ever" licence

[20:50:57]

justinh:

seen it at linux expos

[20:51:31]

Dagmar:

I have had enough of people who's job it is to do things fobbing it off onto other people on IRC and forums

[20:51:36]

Dagmar:

Screw that and screw them.

[20:52:04]

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[20:52:12]

justinh:

Dagmar: at mythboxesforsale.nz ? ;-)

[20:52:14]

Dagmar:

Two years ago I had some dimwit consultant from France putting the dropline people through the wringer about a specific set of changes he wanted made

[20:53:14]

Dagmar:

Turns out he was busily removing all the Dropline branding so he could populate a set of machines at a public library for a lot of money

[20:53:20]

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[20:53:25]

Dagmar:

Why bother to do the work himself when he can get paid for getting other people to do it for free

[20:53:34]

Dagmar:

It's not the first time and it won't be the last

[20:53:48]

justinh:

and the guy selling mythtv boxes complaining that his customers were whining about features & wanted people to code them.. etc

[20:54:54]

justinh:

so in short – you'll probably find the community in general, if they DO say anything about commerce getting involved.. will be pretty cold about it

[20:55:28]

Greek-Boy:

but commerce can be a good thing

[20:55:47]

Greek-Boy:

make it easier for users that are not advanced to actually get up and running with MythTV

[20:55:54]

justinh:

depends where you're selling into

[20:55:57]

Greek-Boy:

mythtv will grow in popularity

[20:56:03]

wagnerrp:

what does OSS care about the users?

[20:56:04]

justinh:

anywhere ffmpeg is legally grey you'll be in trouble

[20:56:17]

czth:

wagnerrp: right, everyone's just scratching their own itch... right? :)

[20:56:22]

wagnerrp:

the only advantage of having additional users is the possibility of new developers

[20:56:32]

justinh:

pfft

[20:56:33]

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[20:56:42]

justinh:

leeches, the bloody lot. near enough

[20:58:17]

justinh:

I've not been on shuttleworth's user hugging course yet sorry :)

[21:01:51]

Dagmar:

Users are not as bad as the consultants who want you to do their job for them

[21:01:55]

Dagmar:

Users who are assholes I can deal with fine

[21:02:18]

Dagmar:

People who are being _paid_ should, IMHO, either subcontract, or actually do their own jobs

[21:02:35]

Greek-Boy:

well, some big company is gonna rape MythTV, probably fork it off to a commercial version

[21:02:46]

Dagmar:

Can't.

[21:02:50]

wagnerrp:

license doesnt allow it

[21:02:58]

wagnerrp:

see pluto/linuxmce

[21:03:05]

Dagmar:

...although I'm sure some company in China is hurriedly looking to do it assuming no one will ever hear about it outside of China

[21:03:29]

Dagmar:

The biometric readers here at my office are about to get into some lawsuit action over their flagrant violation of the GPL

[21:03:53]

Dagmar:

They run Linux kernels, and GNU for the OS stuff, a few custom drivers, and nothing in their documentation ever mentions it at all

[21:03:55]

justinh:

once I leave the firm I work for they're gonna feel the long arm of the FSF or whoever too :)

[21:04:06]

Dagmar:

No source, and they don't even give credit where credit is due

[21:04:08]

Greek-Boy:

as for consultants, I dont see anything wrong with them selling hardware and support time for MythTV... provided that they dont expect the devs to do their work as u said

[21:04:27]

justinh:

well, good luck with all that

[21:05:16]

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[21:20:22]

mattwj2002:

hi guys

[21:20:24]

mattwj2002:

:)

[21:20:33]

mattwj2002:

I know this is a bit off topic

[21:21:12]

mattwj2002:

but I was wondering if we could talk about cable cards.....I have windows 7 ultimate and now I have windows media center.....what is the name of the cable card I would need?

[21:21:51]

henrik__:

what is your provider? do you know if they use the standard stated in dvb-c?

[21:22:01]

wagnerrp:

cablecard... US... not dvb-c

[21:22:48]

mattwj2002:

charter

[21:22:51]

justinh:

try a MCE channel

[21:22:52]

justinh:

FFS

[21:22:53]

mattwj2002:

us

[21:23:13]

justinh:

www.thegreenbutton.com or whatever

[21:23:37]

mattwj2002:

FFS?

[21:24:06]

justinh:

yeah

[21:24:20]

wagnerrp:

for f--- sake

[21:24:38]

henrik__:

mattwj2002, please ask your provider what pccard they recomend, it has to do with what type of decryption they use

[21:24:39]

justinh:

this is a channel for users of mythtv, a linux pvr app & maybe slightly related hardware & software

[21:25:09]

henrik__:

mattwj2002, so leave windows and come to the dark side ;)

[21:25:18]

mattwj2002:

lol

[21:25:24]

mattwj2002:

I am on both sides

[21:25:26]

mattwj2002:

hehe

[21:25:33]

** mattwj2002 has a mythtv box all ready! **

[21:25:34]

mattwj2002:

:D

[21:25:34]

justinh:

muhuhuh

[21:25:36]

henrik__:

you cant do them both..

[21:25:42]

mattwj2002:

yup I can!

[21:25:55]

henrik__:

bisexual only works in movies

[21:25:59]

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[21:26:03]

justinh:

a cronjob to reboot into winduhs1

[21:26:05]

justinh:

!

[21:26:20]

dan4dm (dan4dm!n=dan@danstowell.demon.co.uk) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:26:27]

henrik__:

well good luck with you ca module

[21:26:45]

justinh:

and a cron job to periodically smack you to realise what a dumb idea it is but ey

[21:26:53]

mattwj2002:

anyone know what the windows media center channel is?

[21:27:01]

justinh:

prolly not on freenode

[21:27:05]

justinh:

do you know where google is?

[21:27:12]

mattwj2002:

:P

[21:27:13]

henrik__:

mattwj2002, dont think they have a client for it.. ;)

[21:27:19]

mattwj2002:

hehe

[21:27:20]

henrik__:

irc was created by unix ppl

[21:27:25]

henrik__:

;)

[21:27:30]

mattwj2002:

:)

[21:28:02]

Makere:

irc was created by some random finnish guy for school

[21:28:07]

henrik__:

but you problebly need to know what system your provider is using..

[21:29:03]

henrik__:

perkele

[21:29:06]

mattwj2002:

:)

[21:29:27]

henrik__:

linux kernel was also created by some finnish guy for fun..

[21:29:37]

henrik__:

not so random.. but..

[21:29:40]

justinh:

anyway I didn't think you could just go out and buy A cablecard

[21:29:52]

justinh:

thought it was all about prepackaged dealies

[21:29:55]

justinh:

all locked in

[21:30:16]

mattwj2002:

I thought recently you could buy them

[21:30:22]

justinh:

all nicely tied into HDCP & other copy protection – aka may aswell not have a DVR

[21:30:34]

wagnerrp:

you can go buy a cablecard tuner

[21:30:42]

wagnerrp:

but your cableco has to lease the actual cablecard

[21:30:47]

wagnerrp:

and has to be present to set up the device

[21:31:04]

wagnerrp:

and youre still stuck using Vista or 7 Media Center

[21:31:21]

mattwj2002:

oh that sucks

[21:31:23]

mattwj2002:

:(

[21:31:41]

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[21:32:03]

wagnerrp:

the account and the cablecard both get tied to specific tuner

[21:32:45]

henrik__:

mattwj2002, get used to it, it's called propertarian.

[21:32:46]

wagnerrp:

and for all i know, they probably track stuff like MAC address and TPM hash

[21:32:52]

Dagmar:

...oh and hell has to freeze over, if you're in the US.

[21:32:55]

mattwj2002:

http://amzn.com/B000VOG04A

[21:32:57]

henrik__:

you seem to be one who chooses ot use it..

[21:33:02]

devinheitmueller:

The key challenge is that CableCard exceeds the core mandate of the FCC. The notion of "separable security" was so that authorized devices could gain access to the content – preventing "theft of service". However, the mandate and CableLabs standards that resulted included DRM, which controls *how* authorized content gets used, restricting it's use to "approved devices".

[21:33:03]

Dagmar:

Don't forget that part. Very important.

[21:33:34]

Dagmar:

devinheitmueller: The real matter is that the cable companies are bastards who weren't forced at gunpoint to do something explicitly

[21:33:48]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: I don't disagree.

[21:33:56]

Dagmar:

Teh FCC didn't have the sense to include "THE RESULT MUST BE USEFUL"

[21:34:08]

Dagmar:

Tru2way is no better

[21:34:47]

devinheitmueller:

Unfortunately, the mandate did not require the authorized content to be made available in an unrestricted manner (hence all the additional requirements introduced which greatly increased the barrier to entry).

[21:35:33]

Dagmar:

...although it was clear to sane people that this was the intent of the mandate.

[21:35:55]

devinheitmueller:

Also, if the settop mandate which required the cable companies to use CableCard also restricted the STB to services that could be provided by the cablecard, then it would have moved the standard forward. We would not have ended up with a situation where cablecard was inferior to what the Cable companies' STB could do.

[21:36:14]

Dagmar:

I disagree.

[21:36:22]

henrik__:

The free market should fix this.. if all cable companies are fubar and drm:ing and giving a bad product. If one company came and gave a decent service not so restricted it could win a big part of the market..

[21:36:23]

** mattwj2002 runs to the dark side **

[21:36:44]

devinheitmueller:

henrik__: that doesn't work when monopolies control individual geographic regions.

[21:36:46]

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[21:37:01]

Dagmar:

Unless forced at gunpoint, the cable companies were almost certain to ensure that whatever monopoly-protecting system tehy adopted would at least come up with a few features, and that wherever possible they would sabotage the open standard

[21:37:01]

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[21:37:18]

Dagmar:

henrik__: That's not the way things work here.

[21:37:27]

henrik__:

well the land of the free??

[21:37:29]

henrik__:

;)

[21:37:36]

henrik__:

and the home of the........

[21:37:36]

justinh:

consumers could fix it in a few months

[21:37:43]

justinh:

*do* *without*

[21:37:48]

devinheitmueller:

Dagmar: Yup. Unfortunately, even if they were, they would just do it anyway and hope that the administration changes before the lawsuit came to trial.

[21:37:49]

justinh:

then see what the companies come up with

[21:38:19]

wagnerrp:

s/hope/ensure/

[21:38:33]

justinh:

abstinence could solve all this

[21:39:03]

henrik__:

show some braveness and say, I'm paing for this service, let me use it.. If I buy a gallon of milk, let me have it cold with cinemon buns if I want to.. i dont like the way your cookie crumbles

[21:39:31]

justinh:

have some nuts, be less selfish etc

[21:40:18]

justinh:

or hey, make everything freely available to those who pay for content, and have the death penalty for file sharing. should keep the MPAA happy at least

[21:40:24]

wagnerrp:

doing so would require a significant portion of the population to be willing to do that all at once

[21:40:34]

henrik__:

the rest of the world is oviously missing out on mythtv just because some local cable company restrictions in us

[21:40:41]

Dagmar:

henrik__: Doesn't work

[21:40:50]

wagnerrp:

and were just too complacent over here

[21:40:58]

justinh:

wagnerrp: so that's where it fails. heh. Oh dear :P

[21:41:18]

Dagmar:

henrik__: Here, all the stores WILL band together to refuse to sell you milk if you want to eat cookies with it and you want to buy someone else's cookies

[21:41:46]

henrik__:

lol, and I was inspired by Obamas speeches

[21:41:49]

justinh:

dontcha love monolopies?

[21:41:57]

justinh:

henrik__: didn't mean it. all rhetoric

[21:42:07]

Dagmar:

It doesn't even matter if they don't sell cookies. It's the principle of the thing that they want the first chance at turning down the profit from cookie sales, but if they can't have that, they definitely want a cut of cookie sales money no matter what

[21:42:15]

wagnerrp:

henrik__: inspired by what? everyone says they will being change, and no one means it

[21:42:17]

Dagmar:

After all, if it weren't for the milk, you wouldn't be eating the cookies.

[21:42:26]

henrik__:

the parts about neutral nets

[21:42:29]

Dagmar:

Well, the FCC means it, the users mean it.

[21:42:31]

justinh:

hair nets

[21:42:39]

Dagmar:

THe monopolists however, aren't being burned at the stake yet, so they'll continue to lie

[21:42:40]

wagnerrp:

and if they do truly mean it? well then they just havent been in politics long enough and being president for four years will change that

[21:42:41]

henrik__:

was good and I thaugt that would go thru the whole market

[21:42:45]

benklop:

henrik__: correction: land of the fee

[21:43:22]

Dagmar:

Obama meant those things

[21:43:26]

henrik__:

benklop, I could have been living there now ;)

[21:43:43]

Dagmar:

No one short of Jesus is going to be able to deliver when it comes to monopolists nowadays

[21:43:44]

henrik__:

but i was not the father of that kid :D

[21:44:03]

justinh:

Dagmar: heheh yeah you're too far gone now :)

[21:44:04]

henrik__:

Dagmar, there are ways

[21:44:09]

justinh:

like we are too

[21:44:22]

henrik__:

monopol is not all that bad

[21:44:26]

wagnerrp:

justinh: well youve just got cameras

[21:44:36]

justinh:

henrik__: revolution? Oh dear. I'm washing my hair that day

[21:44:38]

wagnerrp:

henrik__: no, monopolies are always bad

[21:44:48]

henrik__:

some things are not economical to free..

[21:44:57]

wagnerrp:

its like a dictatorship

[21:44:59]

henrik__:

like roads, infrastructure, it

[21:45:06]

wagnerrp:

a dictatorship *could* be the best form of government

[21:45:12]

henrik__:

however... I would like the comverment to own these things

[21:45:24]

wagnerrp:

if the person in charge was actually trying to do things for the people

[21:45:26]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: and a lotteryticket could make you a millionare

[21:45:27]

henrik__:

and then have any company who wants to run traffic thru the lines

[21:45:52]

czth:

wagnerrp: if he did some for some people he'd be screwing the others.

[21:46:07]

Dagmar:

a _benevolent_ dictatorship seldom has problems at all

[21:46:09]

AndyCap:

czth: a pareto-optimal dictator.

[21:46:11]

henrik__:

having 4 diffrent companies puting down cable in the ground is not economical

[21:46:12]

czth:

therefore anarchy or maybe minarchy is the best form of government!

[21:46:14]

wagnerrp:

in in every instance of such things happening, however has said power always ends up taking advantage of it

[21:46:20]

benklop:

wagnerrp: humans could be perfect if it werent for human nature

[21:46:23]

Dagmar:

It's just really damn hard to find enough idealists to make such a thing work

[21:46:41]

henrik__:

but 40 diffrent companies can run on 1 cable

[21:46:43]

Dagmar:

henrik__: It's actualyl _very_ economical considering the alternative

[21:46:56]

Dagmar:

That's just a load of crap the people who want to keep their monopoly will tell you

[21:47:00]

czth:

monopolies without force tend to be good for the consumer. either they're efficient or they're not. if not, someone beats them.

[21:47:09]

Dagmar:

Four different companies putting cable in the ground is economical for the _consumer_

[21:47:31]

henrik__:

so have the goverment own the infrastructure, but not let them be end user companies, only sell gross ervice

[21:47:33]

Dagmar:

Four different companies won't want to put their own cable in the ground, or rather, they won't want to let the other three guys put their cable in the ground

[21:47:41]

henrik__:

Dagmar, no..

[21:47:41]

justinh:

henrik__: communist!

[21:47:46]

Dagmar:

They want to put their cable in the ground and then have everyone else pay to rent part of that cable

[21:47:56]

Dagmar:

Trust me, it's correct.

[21:47:57]

AndyCap:

cookie licking

[21:48:00]

Dagmar:

It's the way things happen here.

[21:48:12]

** antgel has been editing the wiki some more **

[21:48:12]

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[21:48:21]

henrik__:

lets say the cables were owned by the city, like roads..

[21:48:30]

Dagmar:

BellSouth began completely f**king up the T1 PRI circuits used by every dialup ISP in Middle Tennesee the _day_ they were allowed to have their own ISP

[21:48:47]

antgel:

the FAQ was full of "and then i did this, here are some intricate details of my setup from 2004"

[21:48:56]

Dagmar:

...because they could easily do so, and every ISP was already paying htem money

[21:48:57]

antgel:

although i haven't dared prune too much

[21:49:02]

AndyCap:

henrik__: like Wellington, NZ?

[21:49:06]

henrik__:

Dagmar, yes, and that is why the owner not should be allowed to run service

[21:49:18]

henrik__:

AndyCap, I don

[21:49:22]

antgel:

as much as i love free software, there's a smuggishness about some users that makes them (us) be far too verbose

[21:49:27]

Dagmar:

henrik__: Good luck getting them to run cable for a service they can't participate in

[21:49:34]

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[21:49:35]

henrik__:

I dont know how it is in wellingston but it would be the most economical way

[21:49:42]

Dagmar:

The monopolists know damn well they can wait people out

[21:49:43]

wagnerrp:

henrik__: and look how well that works out, we spend trillions a year on roads, and theyre always in disrepair

[21:49:45]

AndyCap:

henrik__: look up WIX Wellington

[21:49:52]

henrik__:

Dagmar, the goverment could

[21:49:57]

Dagmar:

henrik__: No it can't

[21:50:10]

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[21:50:13]

Dagmar:

The moment it tries, it gets buried in lobbyists and spin managers and basically, LIES

[21:50:18]

wagnerrp:

the road i take to work has been either damaged or under construction for the entire four years ive been going there

[21:50:32]

Dagmar:

Several municipalities have attempted to roll out their own city-wide WiFi internet services

[21:50:40]

henrik__:

that the way it works here

[21:50:52]

henrik__:

our city owns the electric companie

[21:50:58]

henrik__:

and they have put down fiber in the ground

[21:51:05]

Dagmar:

In the majority of cases, tehy were immediately sued by whatever ISP was handy, and in one case, a completely unrelated _conglomerate_ of ISPs that didn't even operate in the area

[21:51:08]

henrik__:

but they are by swedish law forbidden to give a service

[21:51:14]

henrik__:

so they have a open net

[21:51:23]

henrik__:

i can choose between about 20 diffrent isp

[21:51:32]

Dagmar:

Mostly you can't here

[21:51:39]

Dagmar:

You have 1–3 options, if that

[21:51:46]

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[21:51:58]

Dagmar:

...because of that whole "it's unecomonical for four companies to bury their own cables" thinking

[21:52:01]

wagnerrp:

around here, you have to options

[21:52:01]

henrik__:

and then I need to pay the city a fee for my connection.. about $17 month

[21:52:13]

wagnerrp:

two cableco's (on opposite sides of the river) and the phoneco

[21:52:13]

henrik__:

and then I pay about 10 more for 100Mbit connecetion

[21:52:54]

benklop:

Dagmar: wagnerrp: you could choose a cellular broadband card.. sure service is slow, but it is a connection

[21:53:07]

benklop:

so it technically counts

[21:53:08]

wagnerrp:

s/slow/slow and expensive/

[21:53:19]

Dagmar:

The monopolists control everything, and without serious, ruthless, women-running-screaming-in-the-streets vicious penalties behind laws to put a stop to it, nothing happens without going through them.

[21:53:28]

benklop:

yes, but my card is paid for by work

[21:53:33]

Dagmar:

benklop: No, you actually can't

[21:53:45]

benklop:

i don't even think they realize it exists any more at this point actually

[21:54:02]

Dagmar:

...not when such things are typically $60–100/month with serious limitations on them

[21:54:14]

henrik__:

Dagmar, there can not be a free market without regulations, USA is understanding this as we speak when they for the first time in history is talking about regulating the financial sector so the depression will not hapen again..

[21:54:19]

henrik__:

this will spread

[21:54:31]

Dagmar:

Since wireless is a "premuim", it's going to cost double or triple any wired connection

[21:54:44]

Dagmar:

henrik__: Nope

[21:54:58]

Dagmar:

So long as the monopolists don't have everything melt down on them, they're not bodging

[21:55:00]

Dagmar:

er budging

[21:55:13]

Dagmar:

...and frankly, if you try to force them to budge, they'll MAKE things melt down

[21:55:22]

henrik__:

well obama was in eu the other week for discussions on how to regulate the economic market, us is one of the countires most for regulation of that sector.

[21:56:14]

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[21:56:19]

benklop:

Dagmar: so my understanding is that then you simply either imprison or shoot the monopolists? this sounds familiar somehow..

[21:56:21]

mattwj2002:

hi guys

[21:56:42]

henrik__:

mattwj2002, look what you did!! shame on you.. starting a discussion like this ;P

[21:56:49]

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[21:57:09]

mattwj2002:

windows 7 recognizes my mythtv and allows me to play my recordings in windows media player

[21:57:11]

mattwj2002:

sorry :)

[21:57:28]

henrik__:

mattwj2002, yes??!!

[21:57:33]

mattwj2002:

yup

[21:57:34]

mattwj2002:

:)

[21:57:55]

henrik__:

upnp settings are in backend settings if you want to do changes to it

[21:57:59]

wagnerrp:

mattwj2002: so did vista, so does any other compliant upnp device

[21:58:08]

wagnerrp:

upnp settings do not exist

[21:58:19]

henrik__:

yes in .22

[21:58:23]

wagnerrp:

either it works, or youre SOL

[21:59:14]

mattwj2002:

well it is nice

[21:59:15]

mattwj2002:

:)

[21:59:26]

mattwj2002:

I was until recently using XP

[21:59:36]

** mattwj2002 embarrassed **

[21:59:44]

wagnerrp:

and it is terrible for seeking

[21:59:45]

** justinh is using XP right now **

[22:00:11]

** henrik__ don **

[22:00:17]

** dustybin is using os x **

[22:00:24]

** henrik__ dont have a msoft computer any more.. **

[22:00:25]

wagnerrp:

seriously, what kind of video player has no hotkeys for seeking

[22:00:36]

wagnerrp:

no mouse scroll, no arrow keys

[22:00:53]

wagnerrp:

your only option is to grab that little bar on the bottom, and try to hit the proper location at the end of the ad

[22:01:47]

wagnerrp:

surely its minimalism is nice, but its unusable

[22:01:57]

benklop:

henrik__: me either

[22:02:34]

** henrik__ don **

[22:02:54]

benklop:

don?

[22:02:58]

sphery:

So, I heard a rumor that the right arrow doesn't work, anymore? That's just crazy. I can't see why anyone would permanently disable that option.

[22:03:07]

** henrik__ don't understand why you need microsoft today.. all you need is in *nix **

[22:03:32]

wagnerrp:

heh, seems there are some very minimal upnp settings now available

[22:03:37]

antgel:

henrik__: i can't stand them, but surely you aren't serious?

[22:03:38]

benklop:

I actually DO have an ms computer, but it's owned by work, their custom stuff only runs there...

[22:03:52]

henrik__:

benklop, return is right by ' and I got a new computer now.. so I havent learned

[22:03:57]

czth:

henrik__: *nix can't record encrypted HDTV over cable!

[22:04:11]

henrik__:

czth, i will not answere that question..

[22:04:12]

czth:

or open some DRM files (some at all, some just not legally)

[22:04:16]

benklop:

henrik__: ah

[22:04:33]

czth:

henrik__: i'd love to know if you've managed to get a cablecard to work on a Linux box. :(

[22:04:36]

wagnerrp:

czth: linux will do it just fine

[22:04:39]

mattwj2002:

it is getting more and more where Microsoft is unnecessary

[22:04:45]

wagnerrp:

theres just no freely available code to allow you to do so

[22:04:48]

henrik__:

czth, can not be discussed here.

[22:05:02]

czth:

henrik__: meet me behind the canning sheds at 10pm

[22:05:06]

benklop:

czth: frankly, I doubt I will ever be prosicuted for laws that cripple my fair use, and if I ever am, i must be doing something VERY wrong

[22:05:24]

wagnerrp:

czth: hes all the way over in sweden, where they have functional CAMs

[22:05:31]

czth:

but it's hard to say Linux can do X easily if you're worried about discussing it in an IRC channel :D

[22:05:47]

henrik__:

wagnerrp, it's not even wrong. I asked Boxer

[22:05:50]

czth:

don't get me wrong, I use Linux on all but 1 box at home, but reality is what it is.

[22:06:07]

mattwj2002:

Linux handles X quick well

[22:06:11]

mattwj2002:

I love the X windowing system

[22:06:13]

mattwj2002:

:P

[22:06:22]

wagnerrp:

the reality is tivo has been using cablecards under linux for several years now

[22:06:22]

henrik__:

lol

[22:06:29]

sphery:

with a legal hardware CAM, Myth works great--but the CAM is doing all the decryption for us

[22:06:37]

wagnerrp:

its just that the code to do so is very unlikely to ever be openly released

[22:06:56]

sphery:

or even binarily released

[22:07:08]

sphery:

(in a form that works on a non-TiVo device)

[22:07:08]

justinh:

or even released

[22:07:18]

sphery:

yeah

[22:07:38]

sphery:

but, hey, the -users list just told me that the FCC said that the CableCARD initiative was an utter failure.

[22:08:01]

sphery:

so even if CableCARD worked, it wouldn't

[22:08:17]

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[22:08:38]

Dagmar:

sphery: You want the news article URL?

[22:08:39]

czth:

sure, it's not myth's fault that it can't record encrypted HDTV – but user perception is that it's a failing of Linux or Myth.

[22:08:50]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, ars has an article talking about it

[22:08:51]

Dagmar:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/ . . . ing-else.ars

[22:09:16]

benklop:

czth: it's a failure of reality. so how do I warp reality to fit my desires?

[22:09:30]

czth:

call your congressman :D

[22:09:57]

benklop:

czth: i doubt my congressman can do much at this point

[22:10:04]

Dagmar:

Call 'em anyway

[22:10:19]

benklop:

I should. daily. i'm upset at them.

[22:10:19]

czth:

(preferably from the beachhouse you're donating to his campaign)

[22:10:28]

Dagmar:

Do it.

[22:10:39]

Dagmar:

I'm offially listed as a crank with two of my senators.

[22:10:44]

benklop:

i've got asterisk.. i could make it call them

[22:10:45]

Dagmar:

More people should be so civic minded

[22:10:54]

justinh:

one argument I come up with once in a while is that we (you I mean) should club together & out-buy the politicos

[22:11:08]

justinh:

fight fire with fire :D

[22:11:23]

Dagmar:

Or just burn them out

[22:11:29]

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[22:11:39]

Dagmar:

Fighting politicians with fire works better

[22:11:41]

henrik__:

we have a party in sweden called pirat party, these got so many wotes last time so they got 2 seats in the eu parlament

[22:11:53]

benklop:

justinh: excellent idea, unfortunately the price point is too high

[22:12:00]

henrik__:

so woting does make a diffrence

[22:12:22]

Dagmar:

Give us a chance to get Diebold out of the way so we can vote first

[22:12:23]

benklop:

henrik__: that sounds fun

[22:12:28]

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[22:12:33]

benklop:

Dagmar: yeah...

[22:12:38]

henrik__:

http://www.piratpartiet.se/international/english

[22:12:38]

benklop:

dangit ..

[22:12:51]

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[22:13:38]

Dagmar:

Corker/Alexander didn't like me raising the alarm about their pro-rape voting policies

[22:13:55]

Dagmar:

They certainly won't like what I'll do if they come out against open source vonting systems

[22:14:25]

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[22:15:23]

benklop:

Dagmar: is there even anything like that under consideration?

[22:16:09]

Dagmar:

like what? open-source voting?

[22:16:13]

Dagmar:

Every time a contract issue comes up

[22:16:20]

Dagmar:

I've been watching for the next opportunity.

[22:16:32]

Dagmar:

Diebold/EES are crooked, beyond a doubt

[22:16:47]

benklop:

i'd agree wth that for sure

[22:16:59]

Dagmar:

It's time people were no longer allowed to sell off the democratic process to the most well-heeled of criminals

[22:17:19]

Dagmar:

Voting hardware and software should be 100% open-source.

[22:17:21]

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[22:17:48]

Dagmar:

You can't trust what you can't audit, and we can't audit Diebold.

[22:17:59]

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[22:18:05]

henrik__:

Dagmar, the voting system is safe...

[22:18:14]

henrik__:

it's designed for vegas..

[22:18:31]

Dagmar:

You foolishly assume that means anything

[22:18:33]

henrik__:

vegas hates to be ripped off..

[22:19:32]

henrik__:

and do you thing the rep would give dem the win if it could be manipulated?

[22:20:09]

Dagmar:

Let me put that question to you another way

[22:20:19]

Lt_Dan:

been done already (diebold voting machine)

[22:20:21]

Lt_Dan:

http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-211.htm

[22:20:33]

Dagmar:

If the republicans had won that one, how long do you think it would have been before every major city in the US were on fire?

[22:20:52]

Dagmar:

Lt_Dan: I don't care if that says they're made by Satan. Steve Gibson is a moron

[22:21:22]

benklop:

Lt_Dan: Yahoo!

[22:21:41]

Dagmar:

s/won/"won"/;

[22:22:08]

gbutters is now known as gbutters_away

[22:22:09]

henrik__:

Dagmar, well, to be honest, I thaugt that day that us voted a black president would be the day when hell freezed over

[22:22:14]

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[22:22:53]

Dagmar:

henrik__: Well ,it didn't help that they picked someone who was unfortunately not able to both run and lie at the same time (I respect him more now than I did before) and a complete JOKE of a running mate...

[22:23:11]

Dagmar:

There really would have been riots over that

[22:23:58]

henrik__:

Dagmar, then you are one of few, his pulls are down..

[22:24:07]

gbutters_away is now known as gbutters

[22:24:15]

Dagmar:

henrik__: Of course his polls are down

[22:24:20]

henrik__:

But I liked mr W :P

[22:24:36]

Dagmar:

He's basically a populist (although not totally one) and the entire republican party is working around the clock to make sure no one gets anything at all done

[22:24:55]

gbutters is now known as gbutters_away

[22:25:08]

gbutters_away is now known as gbutters

[22:25:25]

Dagmar:

So, everything sucks, very little is getting done about it, Obama keeps saying things that he'd like to do for the common man and failing at it because of the aformentioned widespread interference...

[22:25:37]

Dagmar:

...people see him making promises and failing right and left, tehy get mad.

[22:25:37]

henrik__:

Dagmar, the republicans have a very good organization for war..

[22:26:02]

Dagmar:

At least he's NOT so ready and willing to invade everywhere at hte drop of a hat, and has an idea that perhaps the constitution isn't just a stage prop

[22:26:12]

benklop:

frankly I don't like any of it. my leanings run pretty heavily libertarian...

[22:26:25]

henrik__:

do you think you will get an health insurance

[22:26:26]

benklop:

at least in many things

[22:26:30]

Dagmar:

henrik__: Yes, tehy have two very large defense contract organizations in their pockets for one

[22:27:02]

benklop:

henrik__: I know my prices for health insurance have already been increasing because of all the BS

[22:27:27]

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[22:27:57]

henrik__:

well your hospitals will be just like amtram soon

[22:28:02]

Dagmar:

yes They want to make sure you either believe what they're telling you about why your insurance costs so much, or that you suffer

[22:28:11]

Dagmar:

That's a lie

[22:28:13]

Dagmar:

Go to a hospital sometime

[22:28:16]

Dagmar:

Look at your bill later.

[22:28:18]

henrik__:

amtrak*

[22:28:19]

Dagmar:

When it comes.

[22:28:38]

Dagmar:

Ask yourself, "Why was I charged for three tanks of oxygen for a sprained ankle?"

[22:28:53]

Dagmar:

Ask yourself, "Why am I getting bills from four different organizations at once?"

[22:29:38]

Dagmar:

At tthe moment, the level of madness and inefficiency already has the system in an "amtrak" state

[22:29:55]

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[22:30:02]

Dagmar:

The only reason people claim to be happy with it now is that they're currently benefiting from this

[22:30:09]

henrik__:

well my relatives and my old friends are very much against the whole insurance thing..

[22:30:27]

henrik__:

have not talked to one old friend who likes it..

[22:30:27]

** skd5aner is thankful there isn't a mythpolitics plugin **

[22:30:31]

Dagmar:

I am not for it, but the current system is so messed up I'll be for almost _anything_ else

[22:30:43]

Dagmar:

It would be really hard for things to get worse if competition actually entered that space

[22:30:49]

** henrik__ wants sk5aner to design one **

[22:30:54]

Dagmar:

Currently, competition doesn't exist in that space.

[22:31:01]

wagnerrp:

of course when you spend two years arguing with your insurance co to get them to pay for an ambulance ride

[22:31:13]

Dagmar:

You are simply either profitable to health insurance providers, or you do not get insurance.

[22:31:26]

wagnerrp:

because they claim it was not necessary for getting rear ended and falling off a motercycle, because the first item on the bill is 'bandages'

[22:31:35]

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[22:31:48]

Dagmar:

...and since part of the reason they are making money is by refusing to pay for things they're supposed to, if you DON'T have insurance you can easily wind up paying for the people who DO have insurance.

[22:31:51]

Dagmar:

Gotta love that.

[22:31:54]

benklop:

i don't think competetition would enter from current legislation

[22:32:02]

Dagmar:

When I was in SF having my knee surgery, I found out an ugly secret.

[22:32:02]

henrik__:

wagnerrp, you could have talken a run in to the hospital

[22:32:16]

Dagmar:

People who pay actual money, get lower fees *because* they pay

[22:32:55]

Dagmar:

Multiple hospitals there figured out that they actually could charge the uninsured a lot less, simply because of the amount of times insurance agencies refuse to pay things they should.

[22:33:04]

** devinheitmueller points out that people have gone *WAY* offtopic for #mythtv-users... **

[22:33:07]

Dagmar:

...and I mean a LOT less

[22:33:32]

Dagmar:

Sorry, I'm sitting here trying to kill time before fleeing the office

[22:33:34]

henrik__:

Dagmar, I understand that.. i would do so to.. and with cash you get the money over the counter.. the insurance company problebly w8 a month or two..

[22:34:03]

Dagmar:

Not a month or two. They refuse to pay.

[22:34:03]

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[22:34:19]

henrik__:

Dagmar, it's 11.30pm here.. my wife is at a christmas party with her job.. and i'm supposed to pick her up at 2am..

[22:34:37]

henrik__:

so I don't have much more to do either..

[22:34:41]

Dagmar:

I'm making my play to be able to zip out of here now

[22:34:45]

Dagmar:

Yay for floating holiday hours

[22:35:33]

henrik__:

so I guess your on the west cost?

[22:36:18]

Dagmar:

SE

[22:38:09]

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[22:38:30]

henrik__:

I lived in Dalls before

[22:39:24]

henrik__:

Dallas*

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[22:59:50]

benklop:

how can I edit the mythtv menu, but save the changes in the user directory, so an upgrade to myth doesn't overwrite them?

[22:59:58]

benklop:

is that possible?

[23:01:11]

dan4dm:

benklop: i believe not (though i'm not expert)

[23:01:31]

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[23:05:04]

benklop:

blast!

[23:07:43]

benklop:

I think there should be a mythpodder

[23:08:06]

jams:

benklop- yeah it's possible. you could create your own menu theme that consists of nothing but the one file you changed

[23:08:13]

jams:

or two files or however many

[23:08:27]

benklop:

jams: is there any info on how to do that

[23:08:36]

jams:

you might even be able to just place the changed xml file in your home dir, but not for sure thats still there

[23:09:15]

jams:

benklop- well, it's pretty easy Just copy the default menu into it's own dir. edit theme.xml to reflect the new name and start editing

[23:09:24]

benklop:

ok

[23:09:26]

jams:

or you could base it off dvr

[23:09:29]

jams:

or classic

[23:09:35]

jams:

whatever floats your board

[23:09:40]

jams:

boat

[23:09:46]

benklop:

that's not hard.. where do I need to put it?

[23:10:02]

benklop:

in the same dir, or can it be in .mythtv

[23:10:09]

jams:

same place as all the other themes

[23:10:18]

jams:

but it's also possible ot place it in .mythtv

[23:10:30]

benklop:

ok, i'd prefer that

[23:10:32]

jams:

one is system wide, the other is local to the account

[23:11:04]

benklop:

yeah, why i'd prefer it :)

[23:11:12]

jams:

not for sure of the exact location for the themes in ~ would have to consult the code for the search path

[23:11:26]

benklop:

ok, i can do that i guess

[23:11:33]

jams:

it might even be listed in the startup msgs of mythfrontend

[23:11:51]

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[23:12:00]

benklop:

I might start with it in the /usr/share location unil I can figure out the ~ location

[23:12:24]

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[23:15:24]

sphery:

$HOME/.mythtv/themes

[23:15:37]

sphery:

make theme dirs under that

[23:16:07]

sphery:

but note that if myth changes to need updated themes, it's your responsibility to update any "user" themes

[23:16:14]

sphery:

(those in user HOME dirs)

[23:17:46]

jams:

benklop- all you would need in the new theme dir is the info file and the files you changed. Everything else can be ommitted

[23:17:59]

jams:

omitted

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[23:55:14]

borei:

hi all

[23:55:29]

borei:

question about synchronization

[23:55:42]

borei:

when i play mkv, everything is going well

[23:55:50]

borei:

i have Slim profile

[23:56:11]

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[23:56:33]

borei:

when i play DVD it's playning faster and faster, and sound is going behinfd picture

[23:57:19]

borei:

well, not DVD excactly, but DVD iso

[23:59:53]

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MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Current users (225):