Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, October 22nd, 2009, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:18]

MythBork:

oh good grief. partition issues mounting the iso. Anyone know how to use losetup with the loopback so you mount a particular partition?

[00:02:17]

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[00:02:26]

sphery:

DEVICE=`losetup -f` && losetup $DEVICE /path/to/file && mount $DEVICE /path/to/mount/point

[00:03:04]

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[00:04:34]

MythBork:

holy cow sphery, I really didn't expect an answer to that

[00:04:40]

MythBork:

let me try that

[00:05:17]

sphery:

probably requires a peppering of sudos for you

[00:05:43]

kormoc:

and here I always just mounted with offsets

[00:06:30]

sphery:

mount with offsets?

[00:06:52]

MythBork:

sphery, does $DEVICE represent the disk image?

[00:07:03]

sphery:

MythBork: no it's the loop device

[00:07:08]

MythBork:

ah

[00:07:11]

sphery:

/dev/loop0 or /dev/loop1 or whatever

[00:07:59]

sphery:

using losetup -f it tells you which to use (the next free one)

[00:08:07]

kormoc:

sphery: you can mount lookback with specific byte offsets

[00:08:29]

kormoc:

it's used to mount a partition that's inside a loopback filesystem

[00:08:36]

sphery:

hmmm... I've never seen it done that way

[00:08:50]

kormoc:

it's needed if you're mounting say a dd if /dev/sda vs /dev/sda1

[00:08:59]

sphery:

Oh, my above is assuming that the file is a single filesystem

[00:09:04]

sphery:

not a disk dump

[00:09:10]

MythBork:

ah yes, hence why that didn't work :P

[00:09:17]

kormoc:

<MythBork> oh good grief. partition issues mounting the iso.

[00:09:19]

MythBork:

thanks anyway sphery

[00:09:29]

sphery:

ahh

[00:10:56]

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[00:11:47]

MythBork:

kormoc, how would you do it?

[00:12:07]

MythBork:

I need to mount the second partition in a drive I dd'd

[00:13:16]

kormoc:

if you're lucky, you can fdisk the image and get the offsets that way and then it's a mount option to use the offset

[00:13:27]

sphery:

MythBork: do you have a $DEVICEp1

[00:13:27]

kormoc:

if you're not lucky, you'll get to try each offset till it works!

[00:13:35]

sphery:

MythBork: er, ${DEVICE}p1

[00:14:14]

sphery:

i.e. modern kernels should support partitioned loopback devices

[00:14:41]

MythBork:

kormoc, I do have the fdisk info

[00:14:46]

sphery:

MythBork: ls -l ${DEVICE}*

[00:14:49]

MythBork:

how do I know what the offset is?

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[00:15:19]

sphery:

MythBork: the kernel may have done all that for you

[00:16:28]

MythBork:

sphery, that command just lists my current directory contents

[00:16:58]

sphery:

MythBork: you have to do it in the same terminal where we did the DEVICE=`losetup -f` && losetup $DEVICE /path/to/file && mount $DEVICE /path/to/mount/point

[00:17:08]

sphery:

MythBork: or, just do: ls -l /dev/loop*

[00:17:38]

sphery:

if you have /dev/loop0p1, for example, that's partition 1 inside the loopback device /dev/loop0

[00:17:50]

MythBork:

sphery, I have /dev/loop0 through /dev/loop7

[00:18:23]

MythBork:

there are no /dev/loop0p*

[00:18:53]

sphery:

might need to load the loop module with max_part=# (max_part=63, for example)

[00:19:26]

MythBork:

sudo DEVICE=`losetup -f` && sudo losetup $/dev/loop0 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso && sudo mount /dev/loop0 /media/iso/

[00:19:26]

MythBork:

losetup: no permission to look at /dev/loop<N>

[00:20:26]

sphery:

sudo DEVICE=`losetup -f` && sudo losetup $DEVICE /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso

[00:20:37]

sphery:

then ls -l /dev/loop*

[00:20:46]

sphery:

ah, wait

[00:20:52]

MythBork:

?

[00:20:56]

sphery:

DEVICE=`losetup -f` && sudo losetup $DEVICE /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso

[00:21:07]

sphery:

the sudo was making us loose DEVICE, probably

[00:21:36]

MythBork:

DEVICE=`losetup -f` && sudo losetup $DEVICE /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso

[00:21:36]

MythBork:

losetup: no permission to look at /dev/loop<N>

[00:21:45]

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[00:22:00]

MythBork:

oops

[00:22:07]

MythBork:

I forgot to drop in the device

[00:23:59]

MythBork:

nope same error

[00:24:29]

sphery:

what's the exact command yuo're sending

[00:25:42]

MythBork:

wait

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[00:29:21]

MythBork:

DEVICE=`losetup -f` && sudo losetup /dev/loop0 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso

[00:29:21]

MythBork:

losetup: no permission to look at /dev/loop<N

[00:29:48]

MythBork:

sorry sphery – WAF discussion

[00:31:17]

sphery:

and losetup -f gives /dev/loop0 ?

[00:31:48]

MythBork:

sudo losetup -f

[00:31:49]

MythBork:

/dev/loop0

[00:32:21]

sphery:

DEVICE=`sudo losetup -f` && sudo losetup /dev/loop0 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso

[00:32:52]

sphery:

or just do sudo -i , then DEVICE=`losetup -f` && losetup $DEVICE /path/to/file

[00:33:00]

sphery:

and don't mess with all the sudo junk

[00:33:14]

sphery:

don't know that the sudo in the `` works

[00:33:25]

MythBork:

sphery, I just did "sudo su -" and then re ran DEVICE=`sudo losetup -f` && sudo losetup /dev/loop0 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso and I think it worked

[00:33:42]

sphery:

ok, great, then ls -l /dev/loop0

[00:33:45]

sphery:

ok, great, then ls -l /dev/loop*\

[00:33:48]

sphery:

ok, great, then ls -l /dev/loop*

[00:33:50]

sphery:

sorry

[00:34:16]

MythBork:

ls -l /dev/loop0*

[00:34:16]

MythBork:

brw-rw---- 1 root disk 7, 0 2009-10–21 15:57 /dev/loop0

[00:34:25]

MythBork:

no luck

[00:35:03]

sphery:

then you'll likely need to use offsets

[00:35:07]

MythBork:

ARGH

[00:35:09]

kormoc:

MythBork: the offset is the partition start boundary in bytes

[00:35:11]

MythBork:

ok, bbl

[00:35:24]

MythBork:

yeah, but fdisk gives cylindars

[00:35:30]

MythBork:

so I gotta calculate it

[00:35:34]

MythBork:

fun fun fun

[00:35:46]

** iamlindoro wonders if it's worth reading the scrollback to figure out what insane stuff we are in to right now **

[00:35:50]

sphery:

MythBork: or you can reload the loop module with max_part=63

[00:35:55]

sphery:

seems the default is 0

[00:36:04]

sphery:

then you don't need offsets

[00:36:11]

sphery:

just /dev/loop0p1 for example

[00:36:26]

sphery:

losetup -d /dev/loop0

[00:36:52]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: mounting a partition off of a raw device backup (not a raw partition backup)

[00:37:37]

sphery:

rmmod loop && modprobe loop max_part=63

[00:37:52]

sphery:

then do the losetup for the file

[00:38:06]

sphery:

and it should show all the partitions

[00:38:12]

sphery:

and you won't have to use offsets

[00:38:22]

kormoc:

oh wow, that'd be awesome

[00:38:31]

** kormoc never knew such a option existed **

[00:38:44]

sphery:

it's been in the kernel for a while, but for some reason max_part defautls to 0

[00:38:53]

sphery:

(just looked at the code--which I should have done a while ago)

[00:39:03]

sphery:

they'd be /dev/loop0p1

[00:39:05]

sphery:

etc

[00:39:20]

sphery:

modinfo loop

[00:39:29]

sphery:

to see if your kernel has a max_part option

[00:39:56]

MythBork:

now wait, sphery – - can you do that again in order?

[00:40:31]

sphery:

losetup -d /dev/loop0 ; rmmod loop && modprobe loop max_part=63 && DEVICE=`sudo losetup -f` && sudo losetup /dev/loop0 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso

[00:40:34]

sphery:

inside your root shell

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[00:40:50]

sphery:

(which, btw, in the future you should get with sudo -i rather than sudo su – )

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[00:41:09]

MythBork:

losetup -d /dev/loop0 ; rmmod loop && modprobe loop max_part=63 && DEVICE=`sudo losetup -f` && sudo losetup /dev/loop0 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso

[00:41:09]

MythBork:

loop: can't delete device /dev/loop0: No such device or address

[00:41:09]

MythBork:

ERROR: Module loop does not exist in /proc/modules

[00:41:44]

sphery:

the loop0 doesn't exist isn't a problem--just means that someone has already deleted it

[00:41:56]

sphery:

the no loop module makes me wonder if it's built in to your kernel

[00:42:08]

sphery:

MythBork: modinfo loop

[00:42:12]

MythBork:

yes, it is, not listed in lsmod either

[00:42:27]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: so you expect 0.23 to have built in capacity to do #6680? i shouldnt bother doing anything but basic maintenance updates?

[00:42:29]

MythBork:

sphery, ERROR: modinfo: could not find module loop

[00:43:37]

sphery:

don't know how/if you can do it with loop not a module

[00:43:37]

MythBork:

I am so kicking myself right now for not doing a mysql dump before I ran the backup. I thought doing a dd was going to make it easier

[00:43:38]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, I wasn't thinking to work on it, but if the Mythvideo/PBB DB merge happens, then yes

[00:43:47]

sphery:

so back to offsets

[00:43:51]

iamlindoro:

(as it would be a teensy tiny amount of code)

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[01:02:21]

MythBork:

sphery, I'm trying "mount -t ext3 -o loop -o 80023749120 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso /media/iso/" but I keep getting the error "mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/loop0" even though I know it's ext3. what gives?

[01:03:00]

wagnerrp:

fsck it

[01:03:12]

MythBork:

the image?

[01:03:20]

wagnerrp:

the loopback device

[01:03:26]

sphery:

MythBork: you have to use the -o on the losetup to specify an offset

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[01:04:10]

sphery:

MythBork: nvm...

[01:04:48]

MythBork:

wagnerrp, same error

[01:05:28]

sphery:

MythBork: do you have the iso losetup, yet?

[01:05:32]

** MythBork kicks himself again for not doing a mysqldump before the upgrade **

[01:06:11]

sphery:

if not, you can use losetup to specify the offset. IF so, you can use -o loop=/dev/loop7,offset=80023749120 in the mount command

[01:06:18]

MythBork:

sphery, the instructions I followed were here – http://www.semicomplete.com/blog/tags/dd

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[01:08:03]

kormoc:

you'd have to set it as a kernel boot option in grub/lilo

[01:08:06]

kormoc:

and reboot

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[01:08:53]

MythBork:

mount -t ext3 -o loop=/dev/loop7,offset=80023749120 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso /media/iso/

[01:08:53]

MythBork:

mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/loop7

[01:08:59]

iamlindoro:

Do any of the major distros still use Lilo by default?

[01:09:40]

kormoc:

would hope not

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[01:11:25]

iamlindoro:

yeah

[01:12:02]

MythBork:

any ideas sphery?

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[01:13:08]

sphery:

MythBork: well, I've never done that with an offset and it's way more complex than the max_part stuff (which, btw, that guy doesn't seem to realize is the reason that "Linux does not [get this right]")

[01:13:20]

sphery:

so I'm probably not the guy to ask

[01:13:20]

MythBork:

lol

[01:13:39]

sphery:

but it seems that he's doing the right thing

[01:14:07]

sphery:

note the -o offset=80023749120

[01:14:29]

MythBork:

yes

[01:15:25]

sphery:

I suppose -o loop just uses the highest-numbered (or only) active loop device?

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[01:15:33]

MythBork:

yes

[01:15:40]

wagnerrp:

im wondering how the discussion went from updating a database schems

[01:15:49]

sphery:

otherwise, it looks the same as -o loop=/dev/loop7,offset=80023749120

[01:15:56]

wagnerrp:

to trying to mount some disk through a loopback with an offset

[01:16:06]

wagnerrp:

i can only imaging because the partition table got trashed

[01:16:09]

sphery:

MythBork: what loop device are you actually using, though?

[01:16:20]

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[01:16:21]

** wagnerrp starts looking around for impending shark attack **

[01:16:22]

MythBork:

wagnerrp, my db backup is locked on a multi partition disk image. I need to restore it to do a good db upgrade

[01:16:40]

sphery:

wagnerrp: the iso is a disk backup that contains his old mysql data files

[01:16:52]

sphery:

his db backup files aren't working

[01:17:06]

sphery:

wow, he's faster than me, too

[01:17:08]

MythBork:

hmmmm

[01:17:43]

wagnerrp:

hopefully the sharks will stay away until you make it to shallow water

[01:17:51]

sphery:

MythBork: if you're using loop0, then mount -t ext3 -o loop=/dev/loop7,offset=80023749120 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso /media/iso/

[01:17:52]

sphery:

er, mount -t ext3 -o loop=/dev/loop0,offset=80023749120 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso /media/iso/

[01:17:58]

sphery:

forgot to chnage the loop number

[01:18:14]

sphery:

wagnerrp: and this isn't even bsd

[01:18:20]

clever:

sphery: generaly, i can just -o loop, and it picks a number automaticaly

[01:18:22]

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[01:18:24]

clever:

whatever is free

[01:18:38]

MythBork:

same error

[01:19:06]

clever:

what was the error?

[01:19:22]

MythBork:

hell, I might as well just grab an extra hd and dd the thing back to a physical drive

[01:19:37]

MythBork:

mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/loop0

[01:19:41]

clever:

ah

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[01:19:59]

clever:

looks like your trying to read a partition out of a full disk image

[01:20:19]

MythBork:

yes clever – please help if you know how

[01:20:20]

clever:

either the offset= is wrong, or something is damaged

[01:20:28]

clever:

how did you find that offset=?

[01:20:45]

wagnerrp:

wait, where did the sharks get laser beams

[01:21:18]

MythBork:

clever – fdisk -l /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso | awk '/^Units/ { bytes=$(NF-1) } /^\// { print $1 "[" $NF "]: mount -o offset=" $3 * bytes }'

[01:22:26]

clever:

ah

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[01:23:34]

MythBork:

Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

[01:23:35]

clever:

i dont think thats right

[01:23:45]

clever:

its claiming an offset of 250056737280 for sda1

[01:23:49]

clever:

which starts on block 1

[01:23:53]

clever:

thats totaly wrong

[01:24:08]

clever:

just pastebin the entire `fdisk -l /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso` and i'll do it manualy

[01:24:54]

MythBork:

clever, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678136

[01:25:43]

clever:

MythBork: and which partition do you want?

[01:26:05]

MythBork:

partition 2

[01:27:23]

clever:

ls -lh /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso

[01:27:48]

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[01:28:21]

MythBork:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 75G 2009-10–21 13:26 /media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso

[01:29:09]

clever:

ok, then the offset of ~65gig looks ok

[01:29:34]

MythBork:

so my original offset ws ok?

[01:29:54]

clever:

i calculated 70005358080

[01:29:58]

clever:

which is diff then you had

[01:30:05]

MythBork:

well, lets try that

[01:30:15]

sphery:

I see 70005358080 , too

[01:30:41]

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[01:30:46]

clever:

dd if=/media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso bs=512 count=1 skip=136729215 |hexdump -C

[01:31:07]

clever:

that should dump the first 512 bytes of the partition in hex

[01:31:14]

clever:

so you can manualy verify that its the start of ext2/3

[01:32:23]

MythBork:

first line just reads "00000000 01 60 86 48 01 86 f8 42 02 2b 0e 03 02 1a 2a 86 |.`.H...B.+....*.|"

[01:32:30]

sphery:

yeah, the awk from that web page was triggering on the extended partition

[01:32:59]

MythBork:

rest is similar

[01:33:03]

sphery:

at but was also getting the end of it... ?

[01:33:27]

MythBork:

what am I looking for to indicate ext3?

[01:33:35]

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[01:33:51]

clever:

MythBork: did the mount work with the new offset?

[01:33:58]

MythBork:

clever, no

[01:34:03]

clever:

ok

[01:34:39]

** clever skims over http://www.nongnu.org/ext2-doc/ext2.html **

[01:35:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

Yay... got my 'borked' WD 500GB drive stable enough to copy the 437GB of recordings off of it to a new drive... ;-)

[01:36:15]

MythBork:

hey, I resemble that remark

[01:36:21]

clever:

MythBork: ah, the first 1024 bytes of the partition are ignored

[01:36:27]

clever:

thats why theres nothing special there

[01:36:43]

clever:

dd if=/media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso bs=512 count=4 skip=136729215 |hexdump -C

[01:37:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

MythBork: hehehe... Sorry, wasn't intended that way! ;-) Was just happy not to lose the recordings...

[01:37:12]

sphery:

MythBork: if you want to post your 74.5GiB backup for me to download, I should be able to mount it really easy with my nice loop module and max_part--in about 3 months (once I get it downloaded)

[01:37:24]

MythBork:

sphery, lol

[01:37:26]

clever:

that will show the 2 'boot record' blocks (reserved room for grub), and the 2 blocks of 'superblock' (core part of ext2)

[01:37:32]

clever:

MythBork: pastebin the whole blob

[01:37:57]

MythBork:

http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678137

[01:38:44]

clever:

doesnt look like the right offset

[01:38:50]

MythBork:

nope

[01:39:31]

clever:

about 56 bytes into the 'superblock' should be 0xEF53

[01:39:41]

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[01:40:12]

clever:

00000430 30 71 ae 4a 09 00 1e 00 53 ef 01 00 01 00 00 00 |0q.J....S.......|

[01:40:23]

clever:

and i can see the ef53 in my own ext2 partition

[01:42:48]

clever:

(note that the byte order is reversed)

[01:43:19]

clever:

one (crude) method, is to just hexdump -C the entire disk (in small chunks) and grep for ' 53 ef '

[01:43:32]

clever:

until you find the proper offset

[01:44:06]

clever:

let me check something

[01:44:08]

MythBork:

oh dear lord

[01:44:22]

MythBork:

this is approaching the absurd

[01:44:25]

clever:

nope

[01:44:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

MythBork: have you tried 'testdisk'?

[01:44:48]

MythBork:

J-e-f-f-A, ?

[01:44:55]

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[01:45:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

MythBork: I take it you're trying to recover a HDD partition? It will scan the whole drive if it has to... Saved me 2 or 3 times in the past couple of years.

[01:45:52]

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[01:45:55]

clever:

J-e-f-f-A: he has an image of the entire disk in a .iso, and wants the 2nd partition inside the image

[01:46:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

clever: ah... ;-)

[01:47:31]

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[01:48:09]

J-e-f-f-A:

MythBork: Ok then... back to clever... ;-)

[01:48:18]

clever:

lol

[01:48:19]

clever:

ok

[01:48:37]

sphery:

MythBork: for fun, try offset 69997132800

[01:49:06]

MythBork:

ok

[01:49:57]

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[01:52:15]

MythBork:

same error

[01:54:17]

clever:

oops

[01:54:24]

clever:

i tried to dd with a block size of 1gig

[01:54:57]

clever:

now its read()'ing a whole damn gig in 1 syscall:P

[01:56:26]

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[01:59:39]

sphery:

MythBork: how about:

[02:00:02]

MythBork:

?

[02:00:04]

sphery:

http://pastebin.ca/1636470

[02:00:06]

clever:

ok, recovered

[02:00:09]

sphery:

sorry, slow pastebin

[02:00:22]

sphery:

what's the output?

[02:02:19]

sphery:

all that in a root shell, btw

[02:02:20]

MythBork:

http://pastebin.ca/1636474 <- updated

[02:03:12]

clever:

the start block looks better, i think

[02:03:30]

MythBork:

yeah, any way to just mount /dev/loop0p2?

[02:03:52]

clever:

i see a potential problem i had

[02:04:05]

MythBork:

sudo mount -t ext3 /dev/loop0p2 /media/iso/

[02:04:05]

MythBork:

mount: special device /dev/loop0p2 does not exist

[02:04:07]

clever:

i thought the 'extended' was the special container partition, and picked the '3rd' entry

[02:04:18]

clever:

i see now, that i may have picked the wrong row when i did my math

[02:04:24]

MythBork:

oops

[02:04:55]

clever:

dd if=/media/sdb1/sysdisk.102109bak.iso bs=512 skip=136713150 count=4 | hexdump -C

[02:05:06]

clever:

or, just if=/dev/loop0

[02:06:18]

clever:

i expect to see usefull info on row 00000430

[02:06:31]

sphery:

MythBork: losetup -fo 69997132800 /dev/loop0

[02:06:48]

sphery:

should make a /dev/loop1 that's /dev/loop0p2

[02:07:40]

clever:

MythBork: once you run sphery's command, try blkid /dev/loop0 /dev/loop1

[02:07:49]

MythBork:

sudo mount -t ext3 /dev/loop1 /media/iso/

[02:07:49]

MythBork:

mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/loop1

[02:07:51]

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[02:08:03]

clever:

and losetup /dev/loop1

[02:08:16]

clever:

what is the outputs(~3 lines0

[02:08:24]

MythBork:

losetup -fo 69997132800 /dev/loop0

[02:08:24]

MythBork:

root@mythbox:~# sudo mount -t ext3 /dev/loop1 /media/iso/

[02:08:24]

MythBork:

mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/loop1

[02:08:50]

clever:

if you run 'losetup /dev/loop1', it will print the current config for the device

[02:08:55]

clever:

to confirm that its setup properly

[02:09:03]

sphery:

or losetup -a

[02:09:18]

clever:

ah, that too

[02:09:25]

MythBork:

losetup /dev/loop1

[02:09:25]

MythBork:

/dev/loop1: [000f]:1116 (/dev/loop0), offset 69997132800

[02:09:25]

sphery:

would be good for a psatebin

[02:10:46]

sphery:

might also want to mount with -o ro , but it may be too late for that :)

[02:11:27]

clever:

i would avoid using mount at all until you confirm it works, with blkid

[02:11:32]

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[02:11:39]

clever:

blkid can tell you if its a valid filesystem, and what fs it contains

[02:11:49]

clever:

for example, blkid /dev/sd*

[02:11:56]

sphery:

good plan

[02:12:19]

sphery:

and if it's good, then probably just mount -o ro /dev/loop1 /media/iso

[02:12:25]

sphery:

(i.e. don't specify -t)

[02:13:12]

MythBork:

blkid /dev/loop1 gives me no results

[02:13:25]

clever:

then its not seeing any valid filesystem

[02:13:33]

MythBork:

oh cripes

[02:14:06]

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[02:14:48]

clever:

?

[02:15:24]

MythBork:

no file system means I'm toast

[02:15:28]

MythBork:

my backup is no good

[02:15:39]

MythBork:

dunno how, was a simple dd

[02:15:40]

clever:

or you have the wrong offset

[02:15:45]

MythBork:

true

[02:15:50]

MythBork:

back to that

[02:16:06]

clever:

if the offset is wrong, then the data in loop1 wont appear valid

[02:16:37]

clever:

if you have an empty (even failing) drive, try to dd the whole thing in

[02:17:25]

sphery:

clever: does he need to do anything special since it's an extended partition?

[02:17:34]

sphery:

(I don't know how those work since I use primary)

[02:17:37]

clever:

dont think so

[02:17:57]

clever:

generaly, linux doesnt care when you move the whole blob to another disk, even of a larger size

[02:18:10]

sphery:

notice how loop0p2 and loop0p5 seem to be overlapping?

[02:18:27]

Jonas29:

hello did you exist a channel or helper that this speak french

[02:18:40]

clever:

sphery: that goes back to my original thought

[02:19:04]

Jonas29:

for mythtv

[02:19:07]

clever:

sphery: there is 1 primary partition labled as 'extended' which contains all the additional 'logical' partitions

[02:19:18]

clever:

you can only have 4 primary (1 may be extended)

[02:19:19]

sphery:

right, that's what I meant about the "special stuff"

[02:19:42]

clever:

you need to get the offset of one of the logical partitions it contains, not the container

[02:19:52]

sphery:

MythBork: losetup -fo 69997165056 /dev/loop0

[02:19:55]

MythBork:

one more question – I am running an AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 240 Processor. But I've run 32bit versions of mythtv since I heard back a couple years ago that running it on a 64 bit system actually made it slower since it was 32bit code. If I go to the 64bit version now, will I see any improvement?

[02:19:57]

sphery:

perhaps?

[02:19:58]

MythBork:

ok, one sec

[02:20:07]

sphery:

should make a /dev/loop2 and run blkid against that

[02:20:17]

clever:

sphery: if you dd the entire thing back into a real disk, linux would handle that special stuff for us, and with the proper logic (no guessing)

[02:20:42]

MythBork:

root@mythbox:~# losetup -fo 69997165056 /dev/loop0

[02:20:42]

MythBork:

root@mythbox:~# blkid /dev/loop2

[02:20:42]

MythBork:

/dev/loop2: UUID="8d3be7cd-d40f-4d70-b1dc-bfbbb165e1e2" TYPE="swap"

[02:20:43]

sphery:

yeah, just saying that /dev/loop0p2 doesn't look to me to be the real partition he wants

[02:21:03]

clever:

MythBork: thats good, and what i expected

[02:21:08]

sphery:

but loop0p5 is swap, so all that's left is loop0p1

[02:21:16]

clever:

the 'logical' partition is the swap, exactly what fdisk claimed

[02:21:30]

MythBork:

ok, si I should be trying to mount partition 1?

[02:21:32]

sphery:

MythBork: losetup -fo 32256 /dev/loop0

[02:21:41]

sphery:

MythBork: then blkid /dev/loop3

[02:21:58]

MythBork:

root@mythbox:~# losetup -fo 32256 /dev/loop0

[02:21:58]

MythBork:

root@mythbox:~# blkid /dev/loop3

[02:21:58]

MythBork:

/dev/loop3: UUID="921e4dea-7be3-4556-a8d1–11ba1a198952" SEC_TYPE="ext2" TYPE="ext3"

[02:22:15]

sphery:

then mount -o ro /dev/loop3 /media/iso

[02:22:16]

clever:

good, mount it with -o ro, and peek inside

[02:22:19]

sphery:

(or wherever)

[02:22:32]

clever:

yep, that cmd

[02:22:45]

MythBork:

WHOO HOO! YOU GUYS ROCK

[02:22:46]

** sphery has learned way too much about partitions today **

[02:22:52]

MythBork:

I see the drive contents

[02:22:59]

MythBork:

now to perform brain surgery

[02:23:06]

sphery:

so, we've been looking at the wrong partition the whole time :)

[02:23:09]

MythBork:

lol

[02:23:09]

clever:

yay, but is it the drive/files you wanted?

[02:23:11]

MythBork:

sorry guys

[02:23:18]

MythBork:

yes, its the files I need

[02:23:35]

sphery:

yay

[02:23:39]

** J-e-f-f-A give clever and sphery each a gold star. ;-) **

[02:23:52]

J-e-f-f-A:

s/give/gives/

[02:23:53]

J-e-f-f-A:

;-)

[02:24:13]

clever:

when your all done, either umount the stuff and detatch every loop with losetup -d /dev/loopx, or just reboot

[02:24:45]

sphery:

MythBork: make sure when you're done, you do all the cleanup: umount /dev/loop3 && umount /dev/loop2 && losetup -d /dev/loop1 && losetup -d /dev/loop0

[02:25:05]

sphery:

heh, that's what you said /way/ faster than me

[02:25:52]

clever:

sphery: about a month ago, i was trying to read a ext3 partition without mounting it

[02:26:01]

clever:

large chunks of the fs are screwed up

[02:26:12]

sphery:

I /think/ it will automatically detach the loop devices when you unmount, but wouldn't hurt to run an losetup -d on /dev/loop3 and /dev/loop2 just in case

[02:26:15]

MythBork:

ok sphery I just copied the mythconverg from the mounted partition to /var/lib/mysql/

[02:26:34]

MythBork:

is it OK to start mysql back up and retry mythtv-setup?

[02:26:52]

clever:

sphery: thats umount -d

[02:26:53]

MythBork:

wait, I should do a dump before runnint mythtv-setup I think

[02:27:09]

clever:

sphery: but there are several loop devices that didnt get mounted, list them with losetup -a and losetup -d each

[02:27:11]

sphery:

MythBork: make sure the files you copied have the proper user and group and permissions

[02:27:29]

sphery:

i.e. they should probably be something like mysql:mysql and 660 perms

[02:27:36]

MythBork:

ok

[02:27:44]

sphery:

rw-rw----

[02:28:34]

sphery:

and, yeah, do a mysqldump and/or some backup script before starting mythtv-setup

[02:31:02]

clever:

something else that may help (for later) but take alot of disk space/time

[02:31:15]

clever:

dd the partition out of the image, so its just the partition alone

[02:31:42]

clever:

then you can just mount -o loop at any time, and you can delete the swap partition in the image

[02:31:49]

MythBork:

I think I'll just copy the mysql directory to somewhere safe. It's all I need

[02:31:53]

clever:

but it would basicaly double your disk usage until done

[02:32:01]

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[02:33:52]

MythBork:

hmmm, so close now...

[02:34:05]

MythBork:

mysqldump -u mythtv -pmythtv mythconverg -c > mythtv_backup.sql

[02:34:05]

MythBork:

mysqldump: Got error: 1017: Can't find file: './mythconverg/archiveitems.frm' (errno: 13) when using LOCK TABLES

[02:34:05]

MythBork:

joe@mythbox:$ mysql -u root

[02:34:52]

sphery:

are you sure you got all the files from the dir?

[02:35:01]

sphery:

and that the permissions are right

[02:35:33]

sphery:

drwx------ for the mythconverg directory

[02:36:29]

MythBork:

ah, had the dir set wrong

[02:36:36]

MythBork:

let me try again

[02:36:47]

clever:

reminds me of stuff i did on redhat years ago

[02:36:58]

clever:

i was trying to store data on the mysql partition

[02:37:03]

sphery:

So confused... How can Ambassador Joe Faxon be on Criminal Minds after he gave his life on another planet to save Dr/Maj Samantha Carter and all of Earth?

[02:37:11]

clever:

and the damn smart mysql script, would chown -R the data dir on me:P

[02:37:26]

clever:

so all of my non-sql files (in the data dir) would automaticaly get owned by mysql

[02:37:41]

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[02:37:47]

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[02:37:50]

clever:

sphery: new episode of sgu?

[02:38:08]

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[02:38:13]

MythBork:

sphery, -> root@mythbox:/var/lib/mysql/mythconverg# ls -l archive*

[02:38:13]

MythBork:

-rw-rw---- 1 mysql mysql 8955 2009-10–21 22:25 archiveitems.fr

[02:38:27]

clever:

theres a m missing....

[02:38:32]

sphery:

clever: no, just the guy who played him is on Criminal Minds (the series)

[02:38:36]

sphery:

bad joke

[02:38:40]

MythBork:

oops, there's an "m" on the end of that I didn't get when I copied it

[02:38:45]

clever:

sphery: ah

[02:38:55]

sphery:

MythBork: bad copy?

[02:39:04]

MythBork:

let me look at something

[02:39:11]

sphery:

how did you copy them into place?

[02:39:47]

MythBork:

ls -l /media/iso/var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/archiveitems.frm

[02:39:47]

MythBork:

-rw-rw---- 1 mysql mysql 8955 2009-07–13 20:40 /media/iso/var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/archiveitems.frm

[02:40:50]

MythBork:

sphery, "cp -R /media/iso/var/lib/mysql/mythconverg /var/lib/mysql/"

[02:40:50]

sphery:

MythBork: rm -r /var/lib/mysql/mythconverg && cd /media/iso/var/lib/mysql && find mythconverg -print0 | cpio -dpmv0 /var/lib/mysql/

[02:41:21]

sphery:

though yours should have gotten stuff ok, too (no missing m's in filenames...) ???

[02:41:34]

MythBork:

sphery, I'm gonna stop mysql before I do that

[02:41:36]

MythBork:

:)

[02:41:37]

clever:

he may have copied each file 1 by one

[02:42:01]

sphery:

MythBork: good idea--it won't like your deleting files out from under it ;)

[02:43:19]

MythBork:

ok sphery your copy went fine

[02:43:33]

sphery:

and verify permissions are the same as on the other filesystem

[02:43:39]

sphery:

should be identical

[02:43:46]

MythBork:

yes, they are

[02:43:50]

sphery:

users may have changed if your uid's changed

[02:44:00]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: any chance you still have noseek.m2ts mentioned here -> http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6752

[02:44:26]

MythBork:

drwx------ 2 mysql mysql 16K 2009-10–21 22:42 mythconverg

[02:44:42]

sphery:

looks good

[02:44:44]

MythBork:

and the files inside look lik "-rw-rw---- 1 mysql mysql 8.8K 2009-10–21 06:43 weathersourcesettings.frm"

[02:44:54]

sphery:

ok... sounds like time to try a dump

[02:45:00]

MythBork:

now, should I run the dump as root or as a normal user?

[02:45:26]

sphery:

MythBork: as a normal user, do: echo "DBBackupDirectory=/home/mythtv" > ~/.mythtv/backuprc

[02:45:33]

sphery:

(modify the dir as desired)

[02:45:42]

sphery:

then run mythconverg_backup.pl

[02:45:52]

clever:

shouldnt matter, dump connects via unix/tcp sockets

[02:45:52]

clever:

but its safer to avoid root whenever posible

[02:45:52]

sphery:

(probably in /usr/share/mythtv/

[02:46:06]

sphery:

but might be in /usr/local/share/mythtv/ )

[02:46:30]

sphery:

it will dump the DB, compress it, and will rotate keeping the 5 most recent

[02:46:58]

sphery:

just run it with: perl /usr/share/mythtv/mythconverg_backup.pl

[02:47:13]

MythBork:

ok, one sec

[02:48:00]

wagnerrp:

youre still at this? that was like 6hrs ago

[02:48:11]

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[02:48:15]

sphery:

from that point on, you can just do backups by running the script

[02:48:25]

sphery:

wagnerrp: he's a trouper

[02:48:58]

J-e-f-f-A:

... and thanks to clever and sphery, he's pretty-much done. ;-)

[02:49:13]

sphery:

well, he's pretty much ready to start over :)

[02:49:24]

sphery:

(i.e. just getting to the myth stuff)

[02:49:27]

MythBork:

joe@mythbox:/media/sdb1/DB-backups$ perl /usr/share/mythtv/mythconverg_backup.pl

[02:49:28]

MythBork:

joe@mythbox:/media/sdb1/DB-backups$ ls

[02:49:29]

MythBork:

mythconverg-1214–20091021224834.sql mythtv_backup.sql

[02:49:34]

MythBork:

looks good so far

[02:49:38]

sphery:

yay

[02:50:00]

sphery:

now time for mythtv-setup 2>&1 | tee mythtv-setup.log

[02:50:02]

MythBork:

wondering if I should run optimize.pl before trying to upgrade the db

[02:50:28]

sphery:

since that didn't notice the errors, try: mysqlcheck -umythtv -p mythconverg

[02:50:35]

wagnerrp:

no, that does works on the mysql internals, not the data itself

[02:51:04]

sphery:

he had crashed tables where it had to use the frm to recover (so crashed tables with corrupt data)

[02:51:11]

sphery:

so he should check the tables

[02:51:39]

wagnerrp:

i mean 'optimize.pl'

[02:51:46]

** sphery considers adding a check of all DB tables into the backup script **

[02:51:56]

MythBork:

sphery, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678142

[02:52:03]

MythBork:

look at the bottom

[02:52:05]

sphery:

oh, I htought he was talkinga bout optimize_mythdb.pl

[02:52:17]

sphery:

gotta learn to use a keyboard

[02:52:24]

sphery:

MythBork: that's good

[02:52:31]

sphery:

the missing weather tables are no problem

[02:52:35]

MythBork:

ok

[02:52:38]

mchou:

damn, I'd forgotten how nasty domino's pizza is

[02:52:41]

MythBork:

just being paranoid

[02:52:54]

sphery:

just means you at one point ran a DB that didn't support InnoDB engine

[02:53:14]

MythBork:

mchou, I learned a valuable lesson two days ago – never mix sushi and reeses peanut butter cups

[02:53:19]

sphery:

that point may actually be now/this new setup

[02:53:23]

MythBork:

the result is gastronomic EVIL

[02:53:38]

clever:

sphery: i think innodb stores the tables in a seperate directory

[02:53:41]

mchou:

MythBork: nah, I succumbed to temptation. $6 for a large

[02:53:41]

sphery:

MythBork: ls -l /var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/weather*

[02:53:57]

clever:

sphery: in the past, i didnt know about that, and didnt copy them over when migrating mythconverg

[02:54:02]

clever:

so they got screwed up long ago

[02:54:11]

MythBork:

ok, sphery, should I run "mythtv-setup 2>&1 | tee mythtv-setup.log"?

[02:54:16]

sphery:

heh, wasn't the noid the Domino's mascot

[02:54:16]

mchou:

MythBork: tasted exactly like the cardboard box it came in

[02:54:29]

MythBork:

hey, free cardboard – SCORE!

[02:54:31]

sphery:

(paranoid comment just after dominos)

[02:54:43]

sphery:

MythBork: first: ls -l /var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/weather*

[02:54:54]

sphery:

as root

[02:55:08]

mchou:

MythBork: it' would had been better off recycled

[02:55:13]

MythBork:

sudo ls -l /var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/weather*

[02:55:14]

MythBork:

[sudo] password for joe:

[02:55:14]

MythBork:

ls: cannot access /var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/weather*: No such file or directory

[02:55:29]

MythBork:

don't worry mchou – youwill recycle the pizza soon enough

[02:55:42]

sphery:

weird...

[02:55:47]

sphery:

wonder why it thinks you have them

[02:55:54]

mchou:

MythBork: no, I didn't I was the recycling plant

[02:56:05]

mchou:

MythBork: no, I didn't *mean* I was the recycling plant

[02:56:08]

sphery:

what about: ls -l /media/iso/var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/weather*

[02:56:13]

MythBork:

sphery, could this be what borked my upgrade?

[02:56:24]

sphery:

no... it would only complain once you start the frontend

[02:56:30]

sphery:

but just wondering

[02:56:38]

MythBork:

sudo ls -l /media/iso/var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/weather*

[02:56:38]

MythBork:

ls: cannot access /media/iso/var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/weather*: No such file or directory

[02:56:45]

sphery:

ok, you really don't have them

[02:56:48]

sphery:

is mysql running

[02:56:50]

mchou:

MythBork: man, just drop the DB

[02:56:59]

MythBork:

sphery, yes it is

[02:57:03]

mchou:

you've been working on this for HOURS

[02:57:14]

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[02:57:26]

mchou:

the only thing you really need to save is oldrecorded

[02:57:29]

sphery:

MythBork: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "DELETE FROM settings WHERE value = 'WeatherDBSchemaVer';"

[02:57:42]

sphery:

MythBork: then you're ready to go: mythtv-setup 2>&1 | tee mythtv-setup.log

[02:57:51]

MythBork:

sphery – done

[02:58:06]

mchou:

MythBork: once you've recovered that, the rest is gravy

[02:58:21]

MythBork:

mchou, I've been known to go a lot longer for a lot less. There is a serious WAF factor involved here

[02:58:22]

sphery:

if the delete errored, no big deal... just trying to make it so it creates the weather tables when you start mythfrontend

[02:59:15]

mchou:

MythBork: WAF is overrated

[02:59:30]

sphery:

looking through what my box recorded tonight, it seems you didn't miss anything of consequence while working

[02:59:40]

mchou:

what??

[02:59:49]

mchou:

how about "Glee?"

[02:59:56]

mchou:

lol

[03:00:07]

sphery:

ok, I've heard good things about that one, but I haven't started watching, yet

[03:00:24]

mchou:

it's available online anyways

[03:00:26]

mchou:

on fox.com

[03:00:51]

mchou:

but not on linux

[03:00:57]

mchou:

must use windoze

[03:01:03]

sphery:

MythBork: any luck?

[03:01:03]

clever:

damn them all too hell!!! :P

[03:01:11]

sphery:

mchou: no joke--I hate that

[03:01:23]

mchou:

sphery: not kidding

[03:01:39]

MythBork:

sphery – http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678143

[03:03:04]

sphery:

MythBork: how big is your DB backup?

[03:03:11]

mchou:

sphery: actually the last few episodes of "Glee" has taken a serious downgrade in the quality of writing

[03:03:12]

sphery:

the 1214 one?

[03:03:25]

sphery:

mythconverg-1214–20091021224834.sql

[03:03:58]

mchou:

sphery: if the A team doesn't step up the game the show is gonna lose lots of steam and "good will"

[03:04:00]

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[03:06:07]

sphery:

MythBork: you have multiple recordings with starttime of 0000-00–00 00:00:00

[03:06:07]

MythBork:

let e look

[03:06:07]

sphery:

not a good thing

[03:06:07]

sphery:

I'd like to look at the data and easiest way is by getting/restoring your 1214 backup

[03:06:07]

mchou:

man, Microsoft/Danger recovery was easier than this

[03:06:07]

sphery:

lol

[03:06:21]

MythBork:

sphery, you're gonna love this -

[03:06:47]

MythBork:

http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678144

[03:07:29]

MythBork:

something went wrong somewhere. I'm going to back up and recopy the stuff from the mounted partition and do this again

[03:07:34]

clever:

sphery: my mythwelcome is non-responsive

[03:07:40]

clever:

what do you think would be the cause?

[03:07:46]

sphery:

MythBork: yeah, those are pretty small

[03:08:09]

sphery:

MythBork: you've shut down mysqld, right?

[03:09:07]

MythBork:

yes

[03:09:26]

sphery:

I've never done a binary file change

[03:09:36]

sphery:

I always use sql-based backups

[03:09:56]

clever:

in theory, you could chroot into the .iso, and run mysql inside there

[03:10:03]

clever:

so you have the old mysql version and the old data dir

[03:10:07]

clever:

then export it

[03:10:24]

sphery:

MythBork: did you mysql version change?

[03:14:01]

sphery:

MythBork: also, next time you run mythtv-setup, please use: mythtv-setup -O BackupDBScriptArgs='--verbose' 2>&1 | tee mythtv-setup.log

[03:14:16]

sphery:

I'd like to see why it's failing to backup

[03:20:50]

MythBork:

sphery, I copied it all over successfully, then ran "perl /usr/share/mythtv/mythconverg_backup.pl" and it created 9 files right away, and now it's up to 24 files. Does it always take this long?

[03:21:25]

sphery:

created 9 files?

[03:21:32]

sphery:

should only create one

[03:21:43]

sphery:

what files is it creating?

[03:21:45]

mchou:

o_O

[03:21:54]

MythBork:

http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678146

[03:22:23]

sphery:

MythBork: strange... Ctrl-c it, please

[03:22:46]

sphery:

then, any change you can filebin.ca one of those files for me to look at

[03:23:00]

MythBork:

oh, it disappeared after about 3 seconds. the files keep appearing though

[03:23:27]

sphery:

is the script still running?

[03:23:56]

MythBork:

script is not running

[03:24:13]

MythBork:

58 files now

[03:24:28]

sphery:

and mythtv-setup is not running?

[03:24:46]

sphery:

sounds like maybe your distro's scripts are starting/restarting mythbackend or mythtv-setup

[03:24:51]

sphery:

and it's going crazy

[03:24:53]

MythBork:

yeah

[03:24:58]

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[03:24:58]

sphery:

keeps crashing, then it restarts

[03:25:41]

sphery:

can you: ps -efw | grep myth

[03:26:24]

MythBork:

http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678147

[03:26:29]

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[03:26:54]

sphery:

yeah, something is spinning in a loop restarting mythbackend

[03:27:42]

sphery:

can you try to kill whatever script is doing that

[03:28:04]

sphery:

in mythbuntu mythbackend is a script that calls mythbackend.real

[03:28:28]

sphery:

or is there a service shutdown mythbackend or something

[03:28:35]

MythBork:

yeah, I'm looking

[03:28:37]

MythBork:

hold on

[03:29:58]

sphery:

probably need the service shutdown or /etc/init.d/mythbackend shutdown or whatever

[03:32:18]

MythBork:

ok, got it

[03:32:30]

MythBork:

geez

[03:32:45]

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[03:32:56]

sphery:

so no more files appearing?

[03:33:35]

MythBork:

yeah, it stopped

[03:33:52]

MythBork:

I wonder if that's what corrupted the DB?

[03:33:58]

MythBork:

getting pounded like that

[03:37:01]

sphery:

likely wasn't helping

[03:37:20]

sphery:

so, let's try re-restoring the mythconverg directory

[03:37:30]

sphery:

then do a mysqlcheck -umythtv -p mythconverg

[03:37:35]

MythBork:

already did, just to be safe

[03:37:38]

MythBork:

used your command

[03:37:38]

sphery:

then do a mythconverg_backup.pl

[03:37:42]

MythBork:

just did that too

[03:37:44]

sphery:

and see if it's a 799byte file

[03:37:46]

MythBork:

only one file now

[03:37:50]

sphery:

how big?

[03:37:51]

MythBork:

799 bytes

[03:38:08]

sphery:

strange... can you filebin.ca it (or pastebin its contents)

[03:38:47]

MythBork:

http://filebin.ca/xwjeha/mythconverg-1214-20091021233641.sql

[03:39:48]

sphery:

MythBork: ok, so we need someone who knows mysql

[03:40:03]

sphery:

as it thinks there is nothing in your mythconverg database

[03:40:09]

sphery:

MythBork: let's try this...

[03:40:18]

MythBork:

?

[03:41:31]

sphery:

go into mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg

[03:41:36]

sphery:

then: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1636559

[03:42:07]

sphery:

that with mysqld running

[03:42:22]

sphery:

it should delete the /var/lib/mysql/mythconverg directory

[03:42:29]

sphery:

(which we want it to do)

[03:42:34]

MythBork:

ok, done

[03:43:07]

sphery:

then shut down mysqld

[03:43:17]

sphery:

make sure you completely shut it down and that no one restarts it

[03:43:18]

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[03:44:18]

MythBork:

ok, done

[03:44:23]

MythBork:

its off and staying off

[03:44:37]

sphery:

then: cd /media/iso/var/lib/mysql/mythconverg && find . -print0 | cpio -dpmv0 /var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/

[03:44:46]

josh:

janneg, still here?

[03:45:06]

sphery:

he's probably asleep (Europe)

[03:45:27]

MythBork:

sphery, as root or reg user?

[03:45:32]

sphery:

as root

[03:45:36]

josh:

I was working earlier with janneg regarding the qtwebkit check that configure does. Is there any way we can backport that over to 0.22-fixes? I didnt realize we had a branch for that already

[03:45:40]

MythBork:

done

[03:45:40]

sphery:

the cpio as root, that is

[03:45:48]

MythBork:

done

[03:45:57]

sphery:

josh: yeah, probably needs to be done... I'll ping him about that

[03:46:04]

josh:

sphery, thanks.

[03:46:11]

sphery:

MythBork: then check your files/dirs and make sure they look good

[03:46:20]

sphery:

then restart mysqld

[03:46:35]

MythBork:

permissions look right

[03:46:41]

sphery:

cool

[03:47:17]

sphery:

then (after starting mysqld): mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "SHOW TABLES;"

[03:47:21]

MythBork:

ok, seems to be up and OK

[03:48:29]

sphery:

and you see a bunch of tables with that command?

[03:48:29]

MythBork:

looks good – http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678152

[03:48:50]

sphery:

ok, one second

[03:48:52]

MythBork:

k

[03:50:20]

sphery:

then run http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1636572 in: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg

[03:50:43]

sphery:

the weather tables have no data other than the weather setup, so you can fix that after everything is working

[03:50:58]

** sphery hasn't lost hope of getting it working :) **

[03:51:55]

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[03:51:56]

MythBork:

ok, done

[03:52:05]

MythBork:

fo shizzle

[03:52:09]

sphery:

OK, then let's try a backup

[03:52:16]

MythBork:

whoo hoo, why not?

[03:52:22]

wagnerrp:

seems i finally need to get around to setting up an old box with old windows for games

[03:52:27]

sphery:

and hope it's bigger than 799 bytes

[03:52:34]

wagnerrp:

7 keep crashing on MOO2

[03:52:51]

MythBork:

perl /usr/share/mythtv/mythconverg_backup.pl

[03:52:51]

MythBork:

joe@mythbox:/media/sdb1/DB-backups$ ls -l

[03:52:51]

MythBork:

total 5912

[03:52:51]

MythBork:

-rw-rw-rw- 1 joe joe 6039125 2009-10–21 23:52 mythconverg-1214–20091021235231.sql.gz

[03:52:59]

MythBork:

looks good to me

[03:53:07]

sphery:

wagnerrp: what about the Windows XP virtual box stuff in 7?

[03:53:11]

wagnerrp:

try to keep pastes to two lines or less

[03:53:18]

sphery:

MythBork: good sign...

[03:53:23]

MythBork:

sphery, that virtual xp stuff is crap

[03:53:32]

MythBork:

CUH-rap

[03:53:50]

MythBork:

I'm not overly impressed by 7 anyway

[03:54:10]

sphery:

MythBork: OK, now let's try: mythtv-setup -O "BackupDBScriptArgs=--verbose" 2>&1 | mythtv-setup.log

[03:54:17]

MythBork:

"Hey, we fixed all the restarded stuff in 2000/XP/Vista! Aren't we great?"

[03:54:31]

MythBork:

ok, here we go

[03:54:59]

wagnerrp:

yeah, and i cant logon with my usb keyboard

[03:55:06]

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[03:55:50]

wagnerrp:

it wont take my password from anything but a ps2 keyboard

[03:56:38]

wagnerrp:

probably my punishment for not buying a microsoft keyboard

[03:57:03]

sphery:

heh--I'll /. a story about how Windows 7 only works with MS keyboards

[03:57:45]

wagnerrp:

im serious, once i log in, i can pull the ps2 keyboard, and use my wireless logitech just fine

[03:57:58]

wagnerrp:

but it wont let me use it, or the on-screen keyboard, for logins

[03:58:30]

MythBork:

sphery – http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678154

[03:58:53]

sphery:

MythBork: heh, your backup worked :)

[03:59:30]

MythBork:

yes, that progress

[03:59:32]

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[03:59:36]

MythBork:

yes, that is progress

[04:00:05]

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[04:00:39]

sphery:

MythBork: OK, so can you: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "SELECT COUNT(*) FROM programgenres WHERE starttime = '0000-00–00 00:00:00';"

[04:01:45]

sphery:

heh, so we're actually back where we were before the restore from the binary files... (though I feel /much/ more confident that your data is valid this time)

[04:02:39]

MythBork:

http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678160

[04:03:53]

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[04:04:35]

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[04:05:21]

MythBork:

I'm wondering if we don't just need to repair a few tables

[04:05:42]

sphery:

MythBork: OK, this isn't really important info, so let's do: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "TRUNCATE TABLE programgenres;"

[04:05:53]

sphery:

actually before that

[04:06:02]

sphery:

let's do a mysqlcheck -umythtv -p mythconverg

[04:06:26]

MythBork:

crud, already did it

[04:06:32]

MythBork:

well, let me run it anyway

[04:06:37]

sphery:

yeah, run it

[04:06:41]

sphery:

if we have others we'll go back

[04:06:57]

MythBork:

all OK

[04:07:19]

josh:

alsa-lib package no longer exists in ubuntu?

[04:07:21]

sphery:

ok, let's try re-running: mythtv-setup 2>&1 | tee mythtv-setup.log

[04:07:31]

MythBork:

ok

[04:08:04]

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[04:08:59]

MythBork:

http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678161

[04:09:30]

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[04:09:39]

MythBork:

I looked at the instructions here -> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Fixing_C . . . se_Encoding. Might not be a bad idea

[04:10:50]

sphery:

don't do that

[04:10:53]

sphery:

it won't work

[04:10:58]

MythBork:

ok

[04:10:59]

sphery:

(I wrote that--it's not your problem here)

[04:11:01]

MythBork:

format changes?

[04:11:11]

sphery:

your problem is 0000-00–00 00:00:00

[04:11:16]

MythBork:

ok

[04:11:26]

sphery:

give me a second--I'm trying to make some bad data

[04:12:05]

MythBork:

if we can pull out my recording schedules I am willing to lose everything else

[04:12:24]

MythBork:

can we pull that out, make a clean DB and then just put that back?

[04:12:25]

Casper0082:

sphery: since you have a good backup now, why not restore from that backup? It might error out on any primary key violations, but it will prevent the duplicate entries. Just a thought while lurking ;)

[04:13:18]

Casper0082:

s/error out/error/

[04:13:31]

sphery:

MythBork: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg "SELECT COUNT(*) FROM programrating WHERE starttime = '0000-00–00 00:00:00';"

[04:13:46]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: probably a good idea...

[04:13:53]

sphery:

er, that was for Casper0082

[04:14:01]

sphery:

stupid me^H^Hautocomplete

[04:14:18]

MythBork:

sphery, count came back zero

[04:14:30]

sphery:

Duplicate entry '1912-0000-00–00 00:00:00-VCHIP' for key 'PRIMARY' says otherwise

[04:14:48]

MythBork:

yeah

[04:15:00]

Casper0082:

Try a SELECT COUNT(*) FROM programrating;

[04:15:22]

MythBork:

32501

[04:15:32]

sphery:

OK, let's go with Casper0082's plan

[04:15:49]

sphery:

MythBork: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1636559 in mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg

[04:16:49]

MythBork:

done

[04:17:20]

sphery:

MythBork: then: perl mythconverg_restore.pl --filename=mythconverg-1214–20091021235231.sql.gz

[04:17:33]

sphery:

might need path info for that mythconverg_restore.pl

[04:17:42]

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[04:17:50]

sphery:

i.e. /usr/share/mythtv/mythconverg_restore.pl

[04:19:09]

MythBork:

ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 273: Duplicate entry '1039-0000-00–00 00:00:00-3608-actor' for key 'chanid'

[04:19:17]

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[04:19:19]

sphery:

yeah, that's not good

[04:19:30]

sphery:

MythBork: can you filebin.ca mythconverg-1214–20091021235231.sql.gz , please

[04:19:32]

Casper0082:

Did it fail or continue running?

[04:19:42]

sphery:

it fails with the restore script

[04:19:54]

MythBork:

ERROR: Cannot write to mysql, stopped at /usr/share/mythtv/mythconverg_restore.pl line 1536, <BACKUP> line 274

[04:19:56]

sphery:

on first failure it exits

[04:20:07]

sphery:

yeah, that's it failing

[04:20:27]

sphery:

can you filebin.ca mythconverg-1214–20091021235231.sql.gz so I can look at the actual data

[04:20:52]

sphery:

I have no idea how you got duplicate entries in there in a 0.21-fixes db

[04:21:11]

MythBork:

uploading now

[04:21:17]

Casper0082:

I'd gunzip that file then restore using mysql -u mythtv -p mythconverg > mythconverg-1214–20091021235231.sql

[04:21:27]

MythBork:

hey, I'm talented, what can I say?

[04:21:44]

sphery:

perhaps crashed tables that were repaired with REPAIR and data was lost so it gave some values defaults?

[04:21:56]

MythBork:

http://filebin.ca/coepfm/mythconverg-1214-20091021235231.sql.gz

[04:21:58]

sphery:

don't know if it ever does stuff like that...

[04:22:02]

sphery:

seems /very/ dangerous if so

[04:23:01]

Casper0082:

That would violate the primary key though. Granted I work more with oracle then mysql, but the only way for that to happen is for the table to not to have the primary key constraint. Then again... you would not be able to add that constraint later

[04:23:25]

Casper0082:

If there were duplicate entries

[04:23:35]

josh:

MythBork, any ideas offhand why I cant get the alsa-lib package to install on ubuntu 9.02 (jaunty)? apt-get says "couldnt' find package alsa-lib", but it's right there in canonical's website

[04:24:13]

MythBork:

josh, use synaptic and search for it. Often times thename is not what you expect.

[04:24:47]

josh:

MythBork, does this make any sense to you? http://ns2.canonical.com/ko/source/jaunty/alsa-lib

[04:24:50]

MythBork:

just search for alsa and scroll down

[04:25:03]

josh:

MythBork, oh, I'm stuck using a remote shell atm

[04:25:27]

wagnerrp:

those are some nice characters there

[04:25:48]

clever:

josh: 'apt-cache search alsa'

[04:26:10]

josh:

clever, returns a bunch of stuff, but nothing that closely matches 'alsa-lib'

[04:26:24]

clever:

apt-cache search alsa|grep lib

[04:26:41]

MythBork:

josh, try install alsa-base and alsa-utils

[04:27:10]

sphery:

MythBork: really strange... I don't see the data in the backup file that's causing the error

[04:27:34]

MythBork:

sphery, do you think this is getting hopeless? I'm OK with bailing on this. I can do a completely clean install and then spend two or three hours recreating my schedules tomorrow.

[04:27:38]

josh:

MythBork, both are already installed.

[04:28:36]

sphery:

MythBork: I'm intrigued, now...

[04:28:48]

sphery:

I'll still play with it for a while now

[04:29:16]

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[04:30:13]

MythBork:

josh, you could always grab the source here http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/a/ . . . .orig.tar.gz and make a .deb file with alien. Then install with ap-get local install and it will pull any dependencies

[04:32:27]

sphery:

[04:32:43]

sphery:

[04:33:19]

MythBork:

ok

[04:33:32]

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[04:33:37]

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[04:35:28]

Casper0082:

Yea, you have some corruption. I loaded your database and your count (above) of programrating was 32501. I got 15761. The rest were dupes

[04:36:26]

MythBork:

ok, so how bad is it?

[04:36:27]

Casper0082:

Since you have a backup... let me send you back a clean dump for you to import just to see if you can get past the setup and then see how bad the data is :p

[04:38:34]

sphery:

MythBork: I have it fixed up for you. Uploading--about 1min.

[04:38:53]

MythBork:

k

[04:39:43]

sphery:

MythBork: http://filebin.ca/jyuzg/borked3.sql.gz

[04:40:12]

sphery:

MythBork: and again http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1636559 in: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg

[04:40:40]

Casper0082:

ok use his :p Apparently I am slower than sphery

[04:41:05]

sphery:

MythBork: then: /usr/share/mythtv/mythconverg_restore.pl --directory=/home/joe --filename=borked3.sql.gz

[04:41:48]

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[04:42:02]

MythBork:

sphery, should I run the restore as root?

[04:42:04]

sphery:

Casper0082: how were you fixing it? Instead of fixing the data, I just got rid of all data for corrupt tables--credits, programgenres, and programrating (since none are really important--all just extra info and will actually get replaced with mythfilldatabase)

[04:42:17]

sphery:

MythBork: no, just your normal user

[04:42:32]

sphery:

meaning one that has a valid $HOME/.mythtv/config.xml

[04:42:45]

MythBork:

ok sphery, it's done

[04:42:53]

MythBork:

mythtv-setup again?

[04:43:02]

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[04:43:17]

Casper0082:

sphery: I loaded the file in my database. It complained about dupes, but it completed. The dump is everything he had minus the dupes that would kill the restore perl script

[04:43:48]

Casper0082:

Granted, I am sure there would still be some corrupted rows as I did not look for incorrect data

[04:44:18]

sphery:

MythBork: yeah: mythtv-setup 2>&1 | tee mythtv-setup.log

[04:44:18]

MythBork:

sphery, run "mythtv-setup.real -O "BackupDBScriptArgs=--verbose" again?

[04:44:23]

MythBork:

ok

[04:44:40]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: yeah, and since all the corrupt data will be repopulated by mythfilldatabase, it's not really worth keeping any of it

[04:44:46]

Captain_Murdoch:

:) did it again...

[04:44:49]

Casper0082:

haha

[04:44:52]

sphery:

Casper0082: ^^^ (Capt M is gonna kill me)

[04:44:59]

sphery:

sorry Captain_Murdoch

[04:45:07]

Casper0082 is now known as NOT_Captain_murd

[04:45:11]

Captain_Murdoch:

:) worse part is it keeps popping up in front of my edit window.

[04:45:12]

sphery:

lol

[04:45:18]

NOT_Captain_murd is now known as Casper0082

[04:45:32]

sphery:

I may have to write an irssi script that changes autocomplete to prefer the last guy I was talking to

[04:46:02]

MythBork:

I think it worked, I'm looking at the mythtv-setup screen

[04:46:13]

MythBork:

holy cow, 8 hours

[04:46:18]

sphery:

MythBork needs to change his nick to MythFixed

[04:46:24]

Casper0082:

haha

[04:46:25]

MythBork:

sphery, you are the man

[04:46:25]

mag0o:

sphery: you do that, send it over this way

[04:46:54]

sphery:

mag0o: So, I'm not the only one who gets the wrong nick with autocomplete :)

[04:48:20]

mag0o:

not at all, but at least the people i bother aren't as decorated as the captain

[04:48:25]

mag0o:

;)

[04:48:33]

sphery:

mag0o: I still have to re-send my changes to trackbar.pl--allows me to use /trackback to automatically scroll to the trackbar (which shows the last place you were when reading) and /unmark to remove a mark and trackbar_ignore to skip auto-marking named windows/items

[04:48:48]

sphery:

tried sending it to the author but he ignored it, so I guess I need to send it to the irssi scripts maintainer

[04:49:15]

MythBork:

ok, running mythfilldatabase

[04:49:44]

mag0o:

nice

[04:51:49]

sphery:

keep telling myself I'll make a new one that allows me to actually place the mark at a certain spot (i.e. /mark 10.22 00:43:49 ) in case you don't have time to read the whole scrollback, but I haven't done that, yet

[04:52:19]

sphery:

so until then, switching to a window is always a gamble--if there's a lot of talk and I want to keep up, I have to read it all :)

[04:53:23]

mag0o:

i may have to give that script a try

[04:53:42]

** iamlindoro promotes Captain M to Admiral **

[04:53:47]

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[04:55:06]

sphery:

see, if he were Admiral_Murdoch, I wouldn't have pinged him by accident so many times...

[04:55:30]

Captain_Murdoch:

but nobody would get that, a lot don't get the A-Team reference as it is.

[04:55:50]

** mag0o was *just* about to make an A-Team joke **

[04:55:54]

sphery:

mag0o: here's the modified version (without the /mark <time> , still :) http://misc.thirdcontact.com/trackbar.pl

[04:56:02]

iamlindoro is now known as BJ_Lindorus

[04:56:07]

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[04:56:15]

sphery:

all this time and I never realized...

[04:56:38]

BJ_Lindorus:

I pity the fool who releases his theme under a non-modifiable license

[04:56:51]

sphery:

heh

[04:57:10]

wagnerrp:

hah, yeah... never made the connection either

[04:57:19]

BJ_Lindorus is now known as iamlindoro

[04:57:31]

wagnerrp:

and i used to watch the a-team all the time during reruns as a kid

[04:57:39]

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[04:58:09]

sphery:

that makes 2 of us... I'm feeling really slow for not having gotten it.

[04:58:16]

mag0o:

3

[04:59:05]

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[04:59:12]

wagnerrp:

now lets go roll some cars with poorly timed pyrotechnics

[04:59:29]

wagnerrp:

and miss people at point blank range with assault rifles

[04:59:40]

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[04:59:54]

** mag0o whistles the theme song **

[05:00:36]

mag0o:

sphery: thanks for the script, this will come in quite handy

[05:01:12]

mag0o:

now my brain will rot away since i no longer have to remember timestamps for each window

[05:02:46]

sphery:

I'm impressed if you were able to do that

[05:02:54]

sphery:

I used to just read and /sb c

[05:03:02]

sphery:

nice that I can keep scrollback, now

[05:03:18]

squidly:

oh wow I just was trying out some of the eposidic setup

[05:03:26]

squidly:

in mythvideo.. wow is all I can say

[05:03:40]

squidly:

i am higly impressed

[05:03:47]

wagnerrp:

doesnt xchat already do that?

[05:04:43]

sphery:

why would you use x for chat?

[05:04:52]

sphery:

irssi rocks

[05:05:10]

wagnerrp:

hmm... for some reason i thought you used xchat

[05:06:23]

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[05:07:17]

squidly:

sphery: lol

[05:07:21]

squidly:

yea I use the sb all the time

[05:07:31]

squidly:

irssi + screen pwns xhcat

[05:08:45]

sphery:

exactly--screen is a must have with irssi

[05:08:52]

wagnerrp:

xchat + xpra pwns irssi

[05:08:56]

sphery:

can use my IRC from any machine

[05:09:25]

squidly:

sphery: I dont irc from home ever (any more)

[05:09:27]

iamlindoro:

This guy is really trying my patience

[05:09:37]

squidly:

iamlindoro: ?

[05:09:38]

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[05:09:51]

wagnerrp:

probably the guy on -users wanting GPL'd arclight

[05:10:23]

iamlindoro:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2009 . . . /267619.html

[05:10:29]

iamlindoro:

Start there, read forward in the thread

[05:10:46]

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[05:11:02]

squidly:

oh I have not rad that

[05:11:11]

squidly:

its in my huge inbox

[05:11:22]

squidly:

(ie email I have not had time to read today)

[05:12:22]

iamlindoro:

In short, I'm not allowed to release my own work under anything but the GPL because I am a stupid fathead and anyone could make my work better

[05:13:42]

wagnerrp:

one would wonder how you can run long distance with such a fat head without being top heavy and unstable

[05:13:53]

iamlindoro:

wheelbarrow

[05:15:52]

squidly:

0.22 uses tmdb instead of imdb right

[05:15:55]

iamlindoro:

yes

[05:16:04]

squidly:

ok that is what I though

[05:16:37]

wagnerrp:

trunk has for the better part of a year, and there are guides for using tmdb with 0.21 as well

[05:17:19]

squidly:

yea.. I'm just having issues with a couple of movies that have been drivine me nuts trying to get the data dled for

[05:17:28]

squidly:

like I,Robot

[05:18:03]

iamlindoro:

just put in the IMDB # manually

[05:18:05]

iamlindoro:

0343818

[05:18:19]

iamlindoro:

I->Metadata Options->Manually enter #

[05:18:28]

** wagnerrp mumbles something about abandoning imdb numbers entirely **

[05:18:40]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, preaching to the choir, brother

[05:19:11]

sphery:

wow.. that guy is persistent

[05:19:14]

wagnerrp:

honestly, i didnt care until i realized metadata grabs failed if it didnt have an associated imdb number

[05:19:38]

iamlindoro:

sphery, I could not have been more patient IMHO

[05:20:18]

sphery:

wagnerrp: xpra looks cool

[05:20:32]

sphery:

still like my text-based IRC, though

[05:20:48]

sphery:

(great for when I shell in to home from a hotel Internet connection)

[05:21:14]

wagnerrp:

sphery: apparently NX offers something similar, although ive never used it

[05:21:50]

sphery:

yeah, I've always been an X forwarding through ssh fan and--for windows--tightvnc

[05:22:58]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, that's what Xvnc is for. :)

[05:23:12]

Captain_Murdoch:

re: shell into home from hotel....

[05:23:17]

sphery:

too slow

[05:23:27]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, depends on the hotel I guess.

[05:23:35]

wagnerrp:

Captain_Murdoch: i.e... tightvnc

[05:23:37]

sphery:

I guess you just stay at nicer hotels :)

[05:23:53]

sphery:

actually, my upstream bandwidth is very low--like 768kbps

[05:24:07]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, better here, at least a couple megabit on cable.

[05:24:11]

sphery:

nice

[05:24:13]

squidly:

iamlindoro: I tried that with another movie (Malicious) and it didnt work

[05:24:24]

Captain_Murdoch:

I've streamed liveTV from home on that before but at a very low resolution.

[05:24:27]

wagnerrp:

last time i was at a 'nice' hotel, the downstream was around 100kbps, with a latency swinging between 300ms-3s

[05:24:45]

iamlindoro:

squidly, well how about trying with I, Robot??

[05:24:52]

iamlindoro:

IMDB number is above

[05:24:53]

squidly:

iamlindoro: yea that worked

[05:24:57]

iamlindoro:

I know ;)

[05:25:07]

squidly:

its a good movie

[05:25:27]

iamlindoro:

Well, we can disagree there, but..

[05:25:35]

wagnerrp:

i would check to see if malicious is even in tmdb

[05:25:39]

squidly:

also I noiced with some moves if it has some thing like an 16x9 (like from the dvd title) it shows up as an sposodic show

[05:25:43]

squidly:

wagnerrp: I think it is

[05:25:45]

iamlindoro:

It didn't work on your other film because either a) it's not at TMDB, or b) nobody has set the IMDB number at TMDB

[05:25:45]

wagnerrp:

but it seems their search is still broken

[05:25:59]

squidly:

yea

[05:26:05]

iamlindoro:

squidly, You need to name your files properly

[05:26:09]

wagnerrp:

rails errors till the cows come home

[05:26:22]

squidly:

iamlindoro: it came from the dvd rip.

[05:26:34]

iamlindoro:

squidly, That kind of stuff should not be in the filename

[05:26:42]

iamlindoro:

when you rip, you should remove it

[05:26:58]

iamlindoro:

Myth can only do its best to parse the filename, 16x9 would be interpreted at a season and episode #

[05:27:13]

squidly:

yea now it is

[05:27:18]

squidly:

i used to not be

[05:27:39]

wagnerrp:

not to mention the limited character set and forced capitalization of DVDs is a bit annoying

[05:30:12]

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[05:32:57]

wagnerrp:

sphery: looks like at least one etailer has them in... http://www.provantage.com/amd-ad240ehdgqbox~7AAMD2C8.htm

[05:33:16]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, saw them a couple days ago

[05:33:25]

sphery:

(on the 20th)

[05:33:54]

sphery:

but a) don't really know whether to believe the "in stock" and b) noticed that they're about $10-$15 higher than newegg prices

[05:34:00]

sphery:

(on the 240)

[05:34:43]

wagnerrp:

i didnt seem them listed at newegg

[05:35:29]

sphery:

I was surprised that AMD only released the 235e and 240e (and no 245e and 250e). I wonder if that means that they're having problems getting enough low-power chips from the process or if they're just doing it so they can have another release.

[05:35:46]

sphery:

I meant the 240, not 240e at newegg versus the 240, not 240e at provantage

[05:37:02]

iamlindoro:

HA, Secret Girlfriend on Comedy Central is awesome

[05:37:10]

iamlindoro:

highly recommend :)

[05:37:53]

[R]:

really?

[05:38:04]

[R]:

i've been avoiding it cuz it looked stupid

[05:38:05]

[R]:

do they have it online?

[05:38:09]

iamlindoro:

yeah, it's prettyhilarious

[05:38:18]

iamlindoro:

in a totally inappropriate sort of way

[05:38:26]

iamlindoro:

it's like a... First person Comedy

[05:38:30]

iamlindoro:

(FPC)

[05:38:41]

sphery:

wagnerrp: so, basically http://www.provantage.com/amd-adx240ocgqbox~7AAMD29K.htm vs http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103688 is about $10 difference , so I'm hoping that the 240e (when it comes to newegg) will be in the $75-$80 range

[05:39:02]

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[05:39:19]

sphery:

wagnerrp: and provantage shows it as a special order with 4–8 business days extra processing

[05:39:47]

wagnerrp:

toms has a price list from... somewhere... http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/athlon-ii-x3,2452-3.html

[05:39:52]

sphery:

wagnerrp: and charges $7 shipping

[05:41:25]

sphery:

er, $12.25 for the 240e shipping... $98.54 to get it from provantage, and I'm pretty sure they don't actually have it in stock

[05:41:56]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the 'special order' was a bit shady

[05:42:02]

sphery:

yeah

[05:42:11]

sphery:

that's why I'm waiting for newegg

[05:42:32]

sphery:

but I really hope they get it soon--I need to replace the computer that died on me last monthg

[05:49:19]

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[05:54:02]

Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, sphery, do either of you know of any examples I could look at in a theme where we draw a 'fade' effect over a screen with a word over it (like 'Loading'). I seem to remember something like that but can't recall where.

[05:54:23]

Captain_Murdoch:

sorry, not a fade, but darken the screen I guess.

[05:55:00]

sphery:

I don't know any of the new UI stuff... iamlindoro would know, though.

[05:55:38]

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[05:56:09]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, I'm not sure I am understanding you clearly, but there are a number of spots in graphice where the screen is darkened and a popup is drawn

[05:56:19]

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[05:57:08]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, if that's what you mean, grep for popup_darken.png

[05:57:21]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, I want to darken but without a popup.

[05:57:36]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, Same idea applies, what did you have in mind?

[05:58:02]

iamlindoro:

something pre-int for the PBB?

[05:58:08]

iamlindoro:

er init

[05:58:41]

sphery:

or a busy popup when it does the DB upgrades?

[05:58:51]

sphery:

oh, wait--you said not a popup. ;)

[05:59:12]

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[05:59:21]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, a "loading image" that darkens the screen that gets disabled/hidden/whatever sometime during Init() when we have data to display.

[05:59:26]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, Think gbee would be able to suggest the best way, but I suspect it would be a base loading window that we could use any time we have build the window but not yet called init

[06:00:30]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, Simplest thing might just be to call the MythBusyDialog (which all themes should have)

[06:00:40]

iamlindoro:

Then it would be consistent throughout

[06:01:04]

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[06:01:51]

iamlindoro:

And wouldn't require reinventing the wheel

[06:03:29]

Captain_Murdoch:

ok, I see that in MV code, looking there now.

[06:03:57]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, Yeah, it's used there, though not in the exact conditions you'r talking about (though it would be nice)

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[06:16:36]

Captain_Murdoch:

nice, that works.

[06:16:52]

Captain_Murdoch:

Loading busy dialog shows until after we've loaded and repainted.

[06:17:02]

Captain_Murdoch:

only issue is it is not animated during the actual load.

[06:17:25]

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[06:17:49]

Captain_Murdoch:

since PBB::Init() and PBB::FillList() are running in the main thread. need to thread off FillList() and have it return an event when it's done.

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[06:22:02]

strex_:

mythweb on 22 seems to be causing a strange redirect loop, anyone else seeing the same thing?

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[07:09:21]

justinh:

iamlindoro: you blimmin freedom hater, you!

[07:26:11]

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[07:26:17]

wagnerrp:

ooh, windows binaries

[07:26:46]

justinh:

Oh god no. A Cavalier King Charles Spaniel theme. Skinz! SKINZ!

[07:27:19]

wagnerrp:

although it looks like the build is two protocol revisions behind

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[08:53:47]

justinh:

80 MPs back local channel on freeview. Great. Low production values 'community teevee' innit. Another waste of friggin bandwidth

[08:58:06]

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[09:03:05]

Dibblah:

Hmmm. Now that's good value! PREMIUM – 1 Year (Subscription) – 2008-02–28 – 2012-12–31

[09:03:39]

** Dibblah wonders in who's world that is 1 year :) **

[09:05:35]

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[09:06:19]

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[09:06:45]

** quicksilver votes for justinh to head up new community teevee channel. **

[09:07:17]

Dibblah:

Personally, I'm in favor of a local community channel.

[09:08:10]

Dibblah:

I'm in favor of anything that's not: Sitting around on street corners or sitting passively accepting whatever comes out of the goggle box.

[09:11:12]

justinh:

we already have perfectly good narrowcasting ability on the interwebs

[09:12:00]

justinh:

the powers that be should be talking about having LESS channels on freeview not more. Yes maybe more local, more relevant programming but not more channels

[09:17:16]

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[09:17:23]

justinh:

some of the stuff I've seen on da community channel (innit) was less about community, more about da kidz making awful rap videos. Is that better than cutting up grannies? Probably but is it worthy of being broadcast?

[09:17:51]

sid3windr:

I'd like a cab, innit

[09:17:52]

sid3windr:

:')

[09:19:20]

justinh:

my wife was working from home yesterday & she had the telly on as background noise. Blue Peter was on. Good gawd. Dem is rly treyin 2 b dn wit da kidz. Dey is shoutin an everyfink

[09:20:14]

justinh:

newsround was funny doh innit. Day wuz interviewin da kidz about footballn stuf. Dem is all wannabe managers man!

[09:21:31]

justinh:

asked my wife wtf all the kids presenters shout all the time & she said it's to hold the kids attention. WTF? they never had to shout when I was a kid – it was all about treating the viewer as an equal & not being patronising back then, I thought

[09:21:57]

quicksilver:

"not patronising"? /me wonders if justinh remembers the same TV as he does

[09:22:07]

quicksilver:

"Why don't you", most patronising program evah!

[09:22:16]

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[09:22:27]

justinh:

the majority of it wasn't though

[09:22:38]

justinh:

WDY was, absolutely. And always

[09:26:00]

justinh:

could do with one of those peanut butter, jam & chocolate sprinkles sandwiches they used to make right now though

[09:27:14]

tmiw_:

I wonder if a core solo mac mini (512MB RAM) would be acceptable as a mythtv backend, assuming ATSC/8VSB capture only via a USB dongle of some sort

[09:27:26]

tmiw_:

of course, transcoding will probably take forever, but meh

[09:27:31]

justinh:

512MB is about the minimum

[09:27:37]

justinh:

and transcoding is for file squirrels

[09:28:02]

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[09:28:05]

tmiw_:

heh

[09:28:16]

tmiw_:

I _am_ running out of space on the current mythbackend, too

[09:28:20]

tmiw_:

and it's too noisy

[09:28:25]

justinh:

so buy MOARDISK

[09:28:28]

tmiw_:

hence the mini :D

[09:28:37]

** tmiw_ considering drobo **

[09:28:48]

tmiw_:

albeit expensive

[09:29:12]

justinh:

you must have somewhere in the house you could sling a big ugly noisy box & not have to worry about it much

[09:30:09]

justinh:

drobo seemed ideal til I realised it wasn't networked

[09:30:25]

justinh:

now a networked version.. for the same price would be tempting

[09:30:32]

** mzb hides his transcoded videos **

[09:30:39]

tmiw_:

they have that drobo share thing you can buy for it right?

[09:30:47]

justinh:

ker-ching!

[09:30:58]

tmiw_:

besides, you could just run samba on the mythbackend or something like I do

[09:31:06]

justinh:

samba sucks

[09:31:12]

mzb:

(aka: videos that he doesn't _care_ about: being for kids|${WOMAN})

[09:31:34]

justinh:

if you're sharing between linux machines, use NFS or something, not sucky samba

[09:31:41]

tmiw_:

meh. all the computers on my network speak samba

[09:31:46]

tmiw_:

(mostly macs and windows machines)

[09:31:52]

justinh:

I use both

[09:32:02]

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[09:32:13]

justinh:

nfs outperforms samba by a ridiculous amount

[09:32:21]

** mzb has a box "hidden" downstairs (garage) with 4x tuners and 7x disks ... don't care how much noise it makes (6–7 fans?) **

[09:32:29]

tmiw_:

I wouldn't be surprised

[09:32:44]

justinh:

it's also way easier to configure :)

[09:32:51]

** tmiw_ attempts to speak NFS at the windows machine and gets a cold shoulder in response **

[09:33:03]

mzb:

s/samba/cifs

[09:33:43]

justinh:

ubunuts calls it samba. /etc/samba

[09:33:58]

mzb:

yeah, same thing(ish) ... modern name

[09:34:00]

tmiw_:

if I move to a place that gets IPTV I might try hacking things so that mythtv can record channels from it

[09:34:14]

tmiw_:

but being AT&T, they probably locked it down somehow

[09:34:17]

justinh:

more snappy than slownetworksharreythingcompatiblewithwindows

[09:34:47]

tmiw_:

my cable provider also only emits the OTA channels in the clear

[09:34:58]

** tmiw_ grumbles **

[09:35:11]

justinh:

welcome to the wonderful world of digital TV

[09:35:15]

tmiw_:

mm.

[09:35:16]

mzb:

or do away with all network filesystems other than: 1) netbooted frontends, and 2) video streamed from the backend

[09:35:34]

mzb:

(as far as your mythtv network goes, anyway)

[09:35:37]

tmiw_:

my PS3 is the current frontend :)

[09:35:43]

tmiw_:

so I'd only need to hide the backend

[09:35:49]

justinh:

and you're worried about noise? lol

[09:35:56]

mzb:

:)

[09:36:11]

tmiw_:

actually the PS3 is pretty quiet :)

[09:36:22]

justinh:

compared to a washing machine

[09:36:37]

mzb:

I have 5m x N cables running up a (disused) chimney, these days ... don't hear a thing :)

[09:36:38]

tmiw_:

the backend is noisy when doing commercial flagging/transcoding :(

[09:36:51]

tmiw_:

but I think the PS fan might be giving out

[09:37:09]

justinh:

like the xbox360 sounds like a quiet earthquake inside a hair dryer

[09:37:41]

justinh:

I found the original xbox too noisy ffs, doubt I could put up with a 360

[09:38:13]

highzeth:

you need to crank up the volume, thats for sure

[09:38:17]

mzb:

3x1TB R5, 3x500GB R5, 1x 750GB = 3.75TB + 4x DVB tuners setup as 5 virtual each + power search (among others) to record (almost) all movies ... quite noisy if you're near it

[09:38:59]

justinh:

for gaming where there's constant hubub of noise fine – but not civilised TV & movies

[09:39:14]

highzeth:

concur

[09:39:34]

justinh:

mzb: your use of transcoding would be similar to mine, if I could only be bothered. I likes me music vids

[09:39:51]

mzb:

me2 ;)

[09:40:00]

justinh:

but tv series etc.. there's hardly anything worth watching let alone keeping

[09:40:00]

mzb:

what's your count to date?

[09:40:20]

tmiw_:

250G 242G 8.6G 97% /storage/mythtv

[09:40:22]

tmiw_:

yeah...

[09:40:23]

justinh:

I dunno. we don't have enough channels that don't ruin the picture with screenjunk

[09:40:47]

justinh:

*music channels I mean

[09:41:19]

mzb:

yeah, I tend to keep movies that _I_ like untranscoded, transcode the ones that other family members like, and auto-expire the rest ;)

[09:41:43]

justinh:

the industry missed their change with dvd music videos. I would've been a big fan if only they'd done more

[09:41:52]

justinh:

s/change/chance

[09:42:50]

highzeth:

if you by music videos mean *live* performances Im all for, regular playback music vids I wish where banned.

[09:42:54]

mzb:

tmiw_, stats page on mythweb means more ;)

[09:43:05]

mzb:

hmm

[09:43:07]

justinh:

noticed you can buy them on itunes these days. hmmm crappy quality mp4

[09:43:19]

mzb:

I use music videos instead of mp3's

[09:43:48]

justinh:

highzeth: nah some of them are really amazing. Look at the likes of stuff Chris Cunningham, Spike Jonez & Michel Gondry have done. Bloody works of art!

[09:43:58]

highzeth:

Im so glad there are such things as Rockpalast on FTA .de channels

[09:44:13]

justinh:

your average run of the mill boygirlband pap... that can all go to hell

[09:44:24]

justinh:

but even some of that is visually appealing in a lot of ways

[09:44:33]

tmiw_:

mzb: http://ucsd.kicks-ass.net/mythweb/status :)

[09:44:42]

highzeth:

justinh: Im sorry, I dont care about the wizardry of gfx, I care about the music, and live is the only way to prove they are worth anything. ;)

[09:45:00]

justinh:

what an old fashioned viewpoint :)

[09:45:17]

highzeth:

I can live with that

[09:45:25]

justinh:

there's more to music than just guitars IMHO

[09:45:30]

justinh:

and long hair :P

[09:45:47]

justinh:

granted, moshing is nothing without that

[09:45:50]

mzb:

mythtv@tuner:~$ find /myth/video/videos/Music/ -type f | egrep "\.mp.*g$" | wc -l

[09:45:50]

mzb:

1492

[09:45:51]

highzeth:

I never said either had to be present, read up on Rockpalast before you make such conclusions ;)

[09:46:17]

justinh:

all I'm saying is that music videos can be as much a form of art as music :)

[09:46:31]

justinh:

and as such are no less valid IMHO

[09:46:33]

highzeth:

I saw a brilliant Bon Iver concert from Haldern Pop Festival on Rockpalast(WDR) the other day

[09:47:03]

highzeth:

sure, the 2% that can be a valid art performace, but come on, the majority is rubbish

[09:47:15]

justinh:

and limiting an opinion of music talent by saying it's not real music if it's not played live.. I beg to differ

[09:47:29]

tmiw_:

but yeah, I think one day I'm going to build a massive 16TB fileserver or something and not have to worry about disk for a very long time

[09:47:31]

mzb:

tmiw_, fyi: http://ucsd.kicks-ass.net/mythweb/stats

[09:47:38]

mzb:

==> stats!

[09:47:41]

justinh:

oh yeah, they do churn out an awful lot of tat. It's probably more than even 99% – but that's because they make a hell of a lot

[09:48:00]

highzeth:

oh hell no, so you are fine with "musicians" that lip sync, as long as their performace look good?

[09:48:08]

Dibblah:

Ooooh. ##cooking.

[09:48:10]

tmiw_:

mzb: ah!

[09:48:22]

Dibblah:

Apparently, it's lobster season.

[09:48:34]

tmiw_:

woah, my myth setup is a year old.

[09:48:39]

justinh:

highzeth: if it *sounds* good I really couldn't give a damn

[09:49:15]

highzeth:

fair enough, we wont agree on this one ;)

[09:49:33]

justinh:

Dibblah: whole lobster on spesh this week at $cheapo for £4 or something equally ridiculous

[09:50:09]

justinh:

tempted to get some but I doubt I have a big enough pot

[09:50:54]

Dibblah:

Bake it, then.

[09:50:59]

mzb:

tmiw_, by comparison (sorry had to export, etc): http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/mythtv/stats.html

[09:51:10]

mzb:

fairly busy ;)

[09:51:16]

justinh:

you know how berners-lee apologised for the slashes in URLs the other day? He should really have apologised for the whole 'www' thing too. there should be no need for it

[09:51:34]

tmiw_:

mzb: you win :)

[09:51:57]

** tmiw_ glad he restricted public access to the actual videos **

[09:51:58]

mzb:

and don't think for a minute that it all gets watched, I just means that we have less crap to weed from viewing ;)

[09:52:00]

justinh:

Dibblah: oo never heard of baked lobster

[09:52:13]

mzb:

tmiw_, I've been playing longer :)

[09:52:22]

tmiw_:

hehe

[09:52:51]

mzb:

(and started with more crap, remember juntinh?) ;)

[09:53:03]

tmiw_:

wow. http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/09/01/petabyte . . . oud-storage/

[09:53:11]

** Dibblah can't think of how to get to that page. **

[09:53:19]

Dibblah:

(The recording stats page)

[09:53:25]

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[09:53:32]

** mzb hides **

[09:53:48]

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[09:54:01]

** mzb hides (with one eye open!) **

[09:54:01]

justinh:

methinks all the talk of the cloud comes of smoking too much of the cloud

[09:54:19]

mzb:

I'd love to know what's in it :)

[09:54:32]

Dibblah:

Ubuntu is offering a free 2Gb storage space.

[09:54:50]

mzb:

can they store it in my house?

[09:54:52]

justinh:

2GB?

[09:54:56]

mzb:

meh

[09:55:04]

mzb:

s/TB ;)

[09:55:09]

mzb:

still

[09:55:09]

justinh:

you get more than that with a G drive

[09:55:11]

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[09:55:52]

mzb:

do with have to inhale Mark S's cloud to benefit from it?

[09:55:59]

mzb:

s/with/we

[09:56:16]

justinh:

smell his farts probably

[09:56:35]

justinh:

which by the tone of all his fans probably smell like the sweetest thing ever

[09:56:52]

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[09:57:12]

tmiw_:

to understand the cloud, you must _be_ the cloud ;)

[09:58:12]

justinh:

ahh Matrix mumbo jumbo. It has a saying for every situation

[09:59:40]

Dibblah:

I'm _fairly_ sure that's actually not from the matrix, originally.

[09:59:57]

Dibblah:

The only real original thing in the matrix was waaay too many cameras on a track.

[10:00:04]

justinh:

heh

[10:00:08]

justinh:

I want to be... a tree

[10:00:10]

** mzb tests bandwidth of said cloud (to the best of his ability) **

[10:00:33]

tmiw_:

the current bandwidth of the cloud is 10 knots out of the west

[10:00:38]

tmiw_:

oh wait, that's wind speed

[10:02:35]

Dibblah:

Doh. Zen Buddhism is what I was thinking it originally sourced from.

[10:03:04]

** mzb hears the sound of a hand clapping **

[10:03:34]

** justinh hears the hand of a tree being cut down & looping off said hand accidentally **

[10:04:46]

** mzb sends a team of loggers to justinh's house **

[10:05:01]

Dibblah:

Heh. I just realised. In Ubuntu, through the UI, it appears there is _no_ way to mount an NFS share.

[10:05:14]

Dibblah:

Windows (CIFS) share – Easy.

[10:05:17]

mzb:

s/loggers/lumberjacks ;)

[10:05:41]

justinh:

still? I found that frustrating in 8.whatever

[10:05:52]

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[10:05:58]

justinh:

no way to set up NFS expports with the GUI tools either

[10:06:03]

justinh:

deeply flawed IMHO

[10:06:22]

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[10:06:41]

justinh:

and I dunno wtf they were doing with CIFS share setting up – never got it to work with the GUI tool

[10:06:48]

solv:

anybody ever heard of inverted colours when watching mythtv

[10:07:06]

justinh:

solv: yes. using bad video drivers

[10:07:11]

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[10:07:26]

solv:

ah...maybe the nvidia 185.18 driver is dodgy

[10:07:43]

solv:

cause everything is choppy as well

[10:07:53]

solv:

thought it was vdpau

[10:08:45]

solv:

but even with standard xv-blit it's choppy...and the colours inverted....okay i might try an older one...

[10:08:53]

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[10:08:56]

solv:

thanks justinh

[10:10:26]

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[10:13:19]

justinh:

can we set fire to everybody who top posts on the ML – especially the ones who include the whole of the thread text in the email?

[10:15:08]

justinh:

heh I found directhex

[10:15:37]

justinh:

"In Yankistan, Smirnoff Ice is beer. I repeat, FLAVOURED BEER. What is *wrong* with these people?"

[10:18:44]

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[10:19:04]

** mzb goes for more homebrew **

[10:22:06]

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[10:45:57]

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[10:52:01]

justinh:

wth are the BBC offering information on 'how to upgrade to windows 7' for?

[10:52:23]

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[10:53:42]

justinh:

still, might actually be a good thing if it stops anybody dialling 999 when they have problems

[11:00:31]

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[11:00:49]

solv:

lol

[11:03:12]

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[11:06:02]

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[11:11:21]

mzb:

Dibblah, have you tried the ubuntuone-client? (and got it working?)

[11:11:39]

Dibblah:

Not so much, no.

[11:12:22]

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[11:14:55]

mzb:

hmm, just having a look myself. I think I've got the right rule to add this machine, but no upload through client or firefox ... investigating.

[11:16:11]

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[11:23:00]

mzb:

hmm: http://twitter.com/ubuntuone

[11:24:40]

mzb:

meh, I'll look at it again when I reboot and/or upgrade ;) ... interesting idea though (and 2GB is 2GB)

[11:24:53]

mzb:

thanks for the heads-up Dibblah

[11:25:29]

mzb:

now to see if I can spend some au$ while it's high ;)

[11:25:44]

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[11:25:45]

** mzb feels like a USB LCD clock **

[11:27:09]

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[11:28:34]

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[11:29:43]

mzb:

(but doesn't think he looks like one!)

[11:29:54]

mzb:

speaking of which: J-e-f-f-A awake?

[11:30:58]

solv:

i think my video card is screwed.....using xv-blit gives me inverted colours with both 185.18 and 190.40 drivers...and vdpau is jump on SD with no deinterlacing on!

[11:33:25]

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[11:37:52]

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[11:38:48]

mzb:

solv, you've still not given the model of your nv card (at the very least). I'd suggest you provide more detail if you expect comments/assistance ... etc.

[11:39:12]

mzb:

(unless I missed something in the rush;))

[11:39:12]

solv:

nvidia 8400gs

[11:39:19]

solv:

mzb and ya you did

[11:39:29]

solv:

i was just updating on stuff i'dposted earlier

[11:39:38]

mzb:

yeah, that'd be right ... ok, sorry

[11:39:55]

solv:

wasn't really looking for too much help unless you can think of anything other than stuffed hardware

[11:40:04]

mzb:

is it hot?

[11:40:23]

solv:

nope

[11:40:33]

solv:

55 degrees celcius

[11:40:40]

mzb:

to touch

[11:40:56]

solv:

dunno just used the nvidia-settings dialog

[11:41:02]

mzb:

hmm

[11:41:32]

mzb:

and yet you expect the software to give you the right stuff on the screen, too? :)

[11:41:44]

solv:

but i changed over my mobo, cpu and video card all in one hit....maybe i just need to reinstall to make sure the right modules are being loaded....but it shouldn't matter

[11:41:47]

mzb:

fingertips are good :)

[11:42:01]

solv:

yeah hadn't thought of that

[11:42:06]

mzb:

err.. depends what you'd changed

[11:42:29]

solv:

it plays jumpy on all modes...ivtv, xv-blit (which is inverted colours anyway), and vdpau

[11:42:34]

mzb:

I get the impression you've reinstalled your nv drivers

[11:42:59]

solv:

whereas the 6200 on my celeron d single core played fine SD and was almost watchable with xvmc

[11:43:06]

solv:

yeah tried 185 and 190.40

[11:43:12]

mzb:

did you reinstall the _current_ drivers after the hardware change?

[11:43:16]

solv:

yeah

[11:43:35]

solv:

added a few things to xorg like triplebuffers

[11:43:38]

mzb:

what CPU profile

[11:43:40]

mzb:

?

[11:43:53]

solv:

tried all sorts...but i customised it anyway

[11:43:54]

mzb:

(mythtv)

[11:44:07]

mzb:

try slim on defaults

[11:44:19]

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[11:44:30]

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[11:44:53]

solv:

yeah it still skips....also have xbmc and it skips....also dvd's skip

[11:44:55]

mzb:

so you're having problems with HD only?

[11:45:10]

solv:

not skip....but every second there is a few milliseconds pause sort of thing

[11:45:21]

mzb:

HD?

[11:45:21]

solv:

nope SD HD....doesn't matter

[11:45:27]

mzb:

ah

[11:45:36]

mzb:

local storage?

[11:45:41]

solv:

yeah....

[11:45:48]

solv:

backend/frontend

[11:45:55]

mzb:

got a remote machine handy?

[11:46:06]

solv:

my lappy

[11:46:26]

mzb:

install gkrellmd on the BE/FE and gkrellm on the laptop

[11:46:26]

solv:

do you suggest checking if it

[11:46:33]

solv:

do you suggest checking if its disk io?

[11:46:49]

mzb:

on lappy: $ gkrellm -s mythbackend &

[11:47:01]

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[11:47:02]

mzb:

you'll soon see what's going wrong

[11:47:11]

solv:

mzb mythbackend being the ip address of mythbackend?

[11:47:24]

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[11:47:24]

mzb:

or hostname

[11:47:27]

mzb:

yes

[11:47:31]

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[11:47:42]

solv:

okay cool...ta i'll give that a go...never heard of gkrellm before

[11:47:46]

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[11:47:48]

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[11:47:50]

mzb:

ps: I like to invert reads/writes ... easier to read

[11:47:53]

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[11:48:06]

mzb:

wicked tool ... I use it constantly

[11:48:15]

mzb:

(feel naked without it;))

[11:48:53]

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[11:49:29]

mzb:

*very* handy for finding bottlenecks/etc in real time

[11:50:01]

mzb:

if you can't see a bottleneck in gkrellmd, then it's something else :))

[11:50:19]

solv:

cool...i'm installing it now

[11:50:33]

mzb:

but even then, a gkrellm graph can give you a good indication

[11:52:05]

mzb:

also helps to fine tune playback profiles, etc/etc and so on ... to the point where everything works ... ie: if gkrellmd is the highest thing in "top" during playback then you probably don't need it anymore ;)

[11:52:34]

solv:

okay running it now....not too sure what i'm looking for....

[11:52:55]

solv:

cpu's are running about 20 percent each

[11:52:56]

mzb:

invert network and disk (right click on the respective graphs)

[11:53:19]

mzb:

try and work out what "idle" looks like ...

[11:53:40]

mzb:

then play something that works ... note the "look" of the graphs

[11:53:53]

mzb:

play something that doesn't work ... compare graph

[11:54:29]

mzb:

watching tails of mythlogs might help (but *really* verbose logs can hamper efforts)

[11:54:45]

mzb:

... don't suppose you've got sick amounts of logging enabled?

[11:55:08]

solv:

my logs say nothing which is weird....

[11:55:12]

solv:

as in no issues

[11:55:17]

mzb:

err

[11:55:20]

mzb:

nm

[11:55:33]

mzb:

either way: logs, top, gkrellm ==> should show you what's wrong

[11:55:58]

mzb:

20% cpu when doing what?

[11:55:58]

solv:

so before the hardware upgrade i oftend had prebuffer issues and what not showing up....but since then i get no sign of an issue....it seems to "think" everything is hunky dory

[11:56:13]

mzb:

ps: gkrellm also does (remote) sensor readings

[11:56:18]

solv:

mzb playing back an SD recording

[11:56:32]

mzb:

CPU type/speed/model?

[11:57:06]

solv:

pentium d dual core 2.8 GHZ 800 FSB 2M cahce 1 GB RAM nvidia 8400GS 256MB RAM

[11:57:39]

mzb:

never used one but 20% sounds high for SD with that GPU

[11:57:45]

solv:

think i might just bite the bullet and buy a better video card....the wife won't want me to spend the money...but she won't want to watch jerky tv even more =)

[11:58:05]

mzb:

I've achieved about that (with gkrellmd running) for an EPIA M10K !! ;P

[11:58:18]

mzb:

(and lower ... that was about the average;)

[11:58:45]

mzb:

yeah, combination of WAF+ vs effort vs $ ;)

[11:59:04]

mzb:

I feel your pain ;)

[11:59:10]

mzb:

s/remember

[12:00:03]

mzb:

err ... mine's much the same but a year or two down the track ... where ${HER} expectations are now higher ... etc

[12:00:12]

mzb:

and I

[12:00:38]

mzb:

and I'm *STILL* paying for it *ALL* out of my *bl00dy* beer money!

[12:00:41]

mzb:

grr!

[12:00:42]

mzb:

lol

[12:01:06]

mzb:

(3.75TB of disks and 4x tuners later!)

[12:01:09]

solv:

=)

[12:01:38]

mzb:

so while I'm talking to you .. she's lying in bed watching (myth)tv without a care in the world :)

[12:01:45]

solv:

yeah i'm only at 1 TB of disk space and two tuners....probably go more disk space before more tuners

[12:02:01]

solv:

yeah that's the beauty of it =)

[12:02:15]

mzb:

3x1TB R5, 3x500Gb R5, 1x 750GB

[12:02:48]

mzb:

yeah ... mind you ... I can send her mythtvosd messages, or simply turn off the machine remotely if she pisses me off :)

[12:03:12]

solv:

didn't know about mythtvosd messages...nice

[12:03:15]

** mzb doesn't like to abuse his power (much;)) **

[12:03:59]

mzb:

mythtvosd --template=scroller --scroll-text="Give me pleasure now before I turn your TV off"

[12:04:06]

mzb:

or some-such options ;)

[12:04:36]

mzb:

s/scroll/alert ... if it's more important ;)

[12:04:37]

justinh:

mzb: got to thinking about a new notifier thingy which could hook into the osd notification socket yesterday

[12:04:58]

mzb:

anything todo with kettles | lights ... or you're being serious this time :)

[12:04:59]

mzb:

?

[12:05:01]

solv:

hmmm HD channel CPU goes up 10 percent on each core, sitting between 30 and 40 percent....

[12:05:35]

mzb:

solv, see ... you're getting the hang of gkrellm already! ;)

[12:06:04]

** mzb is scared that justinh has a really long description of a great idea **

[12:06:39]

solv:

yeah which shows me it's not the cpu causing the issue....considering 8400gs is the crappest card to support vdpau and considering this one came from someones old computer i think i needa face reality

[12:09:33]

oobe:

256M may not be enough to support vdpau but otherwise should be fine

[12:09:44]

solv:

actually now i think of it...my mandriva box at work has a 8400gs in it and it sometimes gets inverted colours when playing video as well....hmmm

[12:10:27]

solv:

bugger it i can get a gainward 9500gt 1GB with HDMI and passive heatsink for $74 – that'll do

[12:11:19]

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[12:13:16]

justinh:

mzb: just ideas for a general purpose info panel thing to slot into mythui – maybe like the music miniplayer widget that has the capacity to be stitched into themed areas. Then when the OSD is dragged kicking & screaming into mythui land.. it'll be frontend-wide goodness :)

[12:13:24]

mzb:

justinh, ok, got my drink ... ready ... oh

[12:14:07]

sulx:

i have 8400gs with 256mb

[12:14:12]

mzb:

customisable shapes/icons/text kinda thing?

[12:14:13]

sulx:

plays SD stuff just fine

[12:14:20]

sulx:

and even 1080i with 1x temproal

[12:15:07]

justinh:

mzb: as themable as anything else is, and hopefully with the ability to be dynamic – e.g. for a weather bar kind of thing

[12:15:12]

solv:

i'm wondering about my kernel....wondering if it isn't compiled properly for realtime

[12:15:47]

mzb:

solv, , my 7600GS seems happy with anything I throw at it

[12:16:07]

mzb:

ooh ... now you've got me interested ... can I help?

[12:16:30]

justinh:

mzb: I'm just thinking it through at the mo – and not right now. I have a few other fish to fry

[12:16:40]

mzb:

I got the impression a couple of days ago that this sort of thing was being worked on for 0.23

[12:16:53]

justinh:

not is being worked on AFAIK

[12:17:15]

justinh:

might see the light of day in 0.23 but that's said of a lot of things & there are limited resources

[12:17:37]

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[12:18:23]

mzb:

ok, let me know if I can help ... I can't promise I'd be fast/quick/efficient, nor do I know how Qt4/mythtv works, but I can work things out (assistance makes it faster;)

[12:18:24]

justinh:

oh yeah without question

[12:18:26]

justinh:

good to bounce ideas around too

[12:18:33]

mzb:

absolutely

[12:18:54]

mzb:

love to talk with you sometime about it ... let me know when you feel inclined

[12:19:22]

justinh:

I need to sit down & make some notes first. it's all in the cloud right now ;)

[12:19:57]

mzb:

sure ... clear plan from someone who understands the basic would make the whole procedure a lot easier :)

[12:20:04]

mzb:

s/basics

[12:20:18]

mzb:

ie: interior workings

[12:21:05]

mzb:

with x10 + asterisk + ... yeah all the rest, I'm sure I can add/test some bits & pieces

[12:21:27]

mzb:

by the way, I've got a hack that might interest you. pm?

[12:23:13]

justinh:

aye

[12:35:48]

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[12:59:22]

mzb:

meh

[12:59:24]

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[13:02:02]

Josh:

janneg, you awake yet? :)

[13:02:17]

MythBork:

Hey josh, did you get your alsa-lib deal fixed?

[13:02:29]

** mzb looks elsewhere for something to blow up **

[13:02:36]

Josh:

MythBork, apparently so, it ended up beind the libasound2-dev package

[13:02:49]

MythBork:

aha

[13:03:02]

Josh:

mzb, Granulated Chlorine and brake fluid

[13:04:06]

MythBork:

perhaps you can help me today.. After my enormous database issue was fixed at 1AM, I finally got Myth open to discover no sound. Nothing appears in the ubuntu sound configuration tool in the hardware tab. I have an external USB Soundblaster

[13:04:26]

MythBork:

any ideas?

[13:05:35]

Josh:

MythBork, have you tried an 'aplay -L' and then followed up with a 'speaker-test -c2 -Ddefault' ?

[13:07:34]

MythBork:

yes, both produce nothing

[13:08:00]

Josh:

aplay -L should tell you the configured alsa outputs

[13:08:32]

MythBork:

I think it's a hardware detection/driver issue. Since alsamixer says "function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such device"

[13:08:34]

Josh:

Are you doing anything uncommon? SPDIF or analog surround sound?

[13:08:59]

MythBork:

aplay -L produces nothing

[13:09:23]

MythBork:

no, I just have my soundblaster plugged into a USB port

[13:09:41]

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[13:10:03]

MythBork:

the soundblaster does all the surround sound stuff for me and then gives that to my surround sound system

[13:10:28]

Josh:

MythBork, lsmod | grep alsa

[13:10:57]

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[13:11:25]

MythBork:

PC -----USB-------> SoundBlaster --------Optical----------> Sony Surround Sound System ---------- Wires -----------> Speakers :)

[13:11:48]

MythBork:

oooh, no alsa in lsmod

[13:11:52]

MythBork:

not good

[13:12:09]

MythBork:

how could that happen?

[13:12:22]

clever:

not loaded

[13:12:25]

clever:

modprobe -v alsa

[13:13:05]

MythBork:

FATAL: Module alsa not found.

[13:13:08]

mzb:

Josh, been there done that ... moved onto better things ;) (and more advanced timing mechanisms;)

[13:13:15]

clever:

ah yes, its called snd

[13:13:26]

janneg:

Josh: backporting that change is on my agenda but I want to wait for the release

[13:13:54]

mzb:

no clever ... it's called "flash ... tick ... tick ... boom"

[13:14:08]

** mzb halts this silly conversation ;) **

[13:14:41]

clever:

/sbin/halt

[13:14:47]

mzb:

heh

[13:14:47]

mzb:

:)

[13:15:10]

mzb:

clever, in your weird and wonderful collection do you have LCD's? (ie HD44780 et al?)

[13:15:13]

MythBork:

clever – http://pastebin.ca/1637151

[13:15:41]

clever:

mzb: just laptop and desktop panels

[13:15:46]

clever:

no tiny serial stuff

[13:15:52]

mzb:

lol

[13:16:01]

mzb:

MythBork, distro?

[13:16:06]

mzb:

oh

[13:16:09]

MythBork:

mzb mythbuntu

[13:16:18]

clever:

MythBork: looks normal

[13:16:28]

MythBork:

yeah, which is why this is so odd

[13:16:37]

MythBork:

I seem to be the master of odd lately

[13:16:46]

mzb:

ubuntu, huh?

[13:16:53]

MythBork:

I'm gonna get a t-shirt printed

[13:17:02]

clever:

MythBork: cat /proc/asound/cards

[13:17:03]

clever:

that will list every working sound card

[13:17:19]

MythBork:

yes, which is what makes it all the more odd. Usually ubuntu hardware support is stellar

[13:17:20]

mzb:

how about: $ sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils restart

[13:17:39]

clever:

mzb: i see you have snd_hda_intel loaded

[13:17:44]

clever:

that card has alot of trouble

[13:18:01]

mzb:

*cough*

[13:18:08]

mzb:

^^

[13:18:17]

clever:

ive had to deal with it once, and saw ##alsa full of it all the time

[13:18:19]

Josh:

janneg, I'm not too familliar with the svn workcycle and layout, I noticed that there was a release-0-22-fixes branch after I noticed the qtwebkit error, I switched from trunk to release-0-22-fixes after

[13:18:23]

** mzb points the finger at someone else **

[13:18:33]

MythBork:

mzb – http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678247

[13:18:55]

mzb:

gee, that says a lot

[13:19:12]

MythBork:

oops, sorry

[13:19:18]

MythBork:

cut and paste mistake

[13:19:24]

MythBork:

http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678248

[13:19:36]

mzb:

$ lspci | grep -i Audio

[13:19:57]

MythBork:

00:14.2 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA

[13:20:18]

mzb:

ATI strikes again! ;)

[13:20:53]

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[13:20:54]

MythBork:

so the fact that that chipset is on my mobo is causing the USB card to be unseen?

[13:21:36]

clever:

MythBork: the usb card would be under lsusb, not lspci

[13:21:42]

MythBork:

ok

[13:21:42]

clever:

and i can see a usb sound driver loaded in your lsmod

[13:21:58]

clever:

is it listed in 'cat /proc/asound/cards'?

[13:22:13]

mzb:

yeah, "External"

[13:22:35]

clever:

then it should be working, you just need to tell whatever app you have to use it instead of the default

[13:22:41]

MythBork:

yeah, it shows up

[13:22:42]

** mzb is still catching up with logland **

[13:22:58]

c3l:

where do I find drivers for Technotrend Premium C-2300

[13:23:19]

mzb:

MythBork, System => Preferences => Sound

[13:24:41]

MythBork:

mzb, clever -> http://picpaste.com/Screenshot_1.png

[13:25:36]

** mzb points out in his defence that he uses Debian for anything he relies on (tv, communications, etc) ... and ubuntu for "entertainment" (ie: browsing) **

[13:26:19]

mzb:

have you restarted since making any hardware changes?

[13:27:11]

** mzb has a usb sound "card" here somewhere that he could make a comparison to, but as he's running multiseat that exercise might get a little messy **

[13:27:12]

MythBork:

mzb, I have restarted several times. In the past I have had to unplug the USB soundblaster and then plug it back in to get it to be recognized. I have done that also, but no luck.

[13:27:31]

mzb:

tail -F /var/log/messages

[13:27:43]

mzb:

unplug/replug USB

[13:27:48]

mzb:

pastebin

[13:28:00]

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[13:29:24]

** mzb still feels like spending us$ **

[13:29:24]

MythBork:

http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678250

[13:29:29]

mzb:

*sigh*

[13:29:32]

mzb:

;)

[13:30:05]

mzb:

um

[13:30:25]

** mzb hunts for his usb sound thingy **

[13:30:55]

Josh:

MythBork, you can always blacklist that hda-intel module to keep it from loading

[13:31:19]

MythBork:

Josh, that's probably not a bad idea

[13:31:48]

mzb:

nope

[13:31:55]

Josh:

MythBork, of course, the hda-intel cards usually have some capability of coaxial SPDIF

[13:32:02]

mzb:

MythBork, paste the rest of the log please

[13:32:07]

mzb:

... bits missing

[13:32:09]

Josh:

so you may not explicity *need* the creative usb thing

[13:32:35]

mzb:

ie: tail the log (press enter a few times)

[13:32:40]

mzb:

plug in usb

[13:32:47]

mzb:

press enter a few times

[13:33:02]

MythBork:

mzb, OK one sec

[13:33:03]

mzb:

copy/paste between the empty lines

[13:33:40]

mzb:

should be something like: http://openpaste.org/en/17501/

[13:34:33]

MythBork:

http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678254

[13:34:46]

mzb:

1. have you had this USB audio working before?

[13:35:02]

mzb:

2. have you recently performed a kernel upgrade?

[13:35:06]

MythBork:

mzb, yeah, flawlessly under mythbuntu 8.10

[13:35:16]

mzb:

3. has anything else changed in the system?

[13:35:23]

MythBork:

mzb, yes I upgraded to 9.10 yesterday

[13:35:46]

mzb:

same thing again:

[13:35:52]

mzb:

chosen from 1 choic ...

[13:35:58]

mzb:

where's the rest?

[13:36:11]

MythBork:

there is nothing else

[13:36:24]

mzb:

not even the "e" from "choice"

[13:36:33]

mzb:

?

[13:37:01]

MythBork:

mzb, sorry, cut and paste error

[13:37:05]

MythBork:

look here http://picpaste.com/Screenshot-1.png

[13:37:17]

mzb:

no, log thanks

[13:38:08]

MythBork:

ok sorry. I just didn't get the "e" when I copied and pasted

[13:38:18]

mzb:

*cackle*

[13:38:19]

MythBork:

but that's all the log shows

[13:38:38]

mzb:

lsusb

[13:38:57]

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[13:39:01]

MythBork:

lsusb returns no results

[13:39:11]

mzb:

sudo lsusb

[13:39:25]

MythBork:

same

[13:39:28]

Josh:

MythBork, is there a seperate power cord for your creative usb thing?

[13:39:36]

** mzb is dying to spend $ while woman sleeps, so thou must keep mzb busy before he decides to pull his wallet out and create havoc **

[13:39:56]

mzb:

(with his beer money!)

[13:40:35]

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[13:40:37]

** mzb passes the batten to Josh **

[13:41:02]

MythBork:

Josh, no

[13:41:08]

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[13:41:22]

MythBork:

Josh, the power light on it is lit

[13:41:33]

Josh:

MythBork, next step would be to see if another USB device works

[13:41:50]

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[13:42:21]

Josh:

or just out of curiosity, see what dmesg says when you plug / unplug

[13:43:58]

MythBork:

usb keyboard and mouse are working

[13:44:52]

MythBork:

Josh – http://pastebin.mozilla.org/678255

[13:45:56]

Josh:

MythBork, and no output from dmesg at all when plugging in the creative USB thing?

[13:46:27]

MythBork:

#

[13:46:27]

MythBork:

[ 3829.196075] usb 5–1: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 4

[13:46:27]

MythBork:

#

[13:46:27]

MythBork:

[ 3829.452121] usb 5–1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice

[13:46:40]

MythBork:

sorry, that was supposed to be 2 lines

[13:48:48]

Josh:

which driver gives functionality for the creative usb stick? is it a HID device?

[13:50:16]

MythBork:

I have no idea

[13:54:22]

MythBork:

be back in a minute, going to reboot with the ati sound driver blacklisted

[13:54:29]

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[14:01:03]

MythBork:

OK, clever, mzb, Josh – I blacklisted the hda-intel module and rebooted, but no change. Still no sound and nothing appears in the hardware tab of the sound config tool

[14:05:20]

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[14:05:33]

mzb:

yeah, suspected that was a waste of time ... you've not proven that any driver is loading from the hotplug event

[14:05:47]

mzb:

google for ubuntu + your device

[14:06:51]

mzb:

as much as I hate to say it : this isn't a mythtv problem, you'll probably more qualified help elsewhere, like #ubuntu (?)

[14:07:05]

mzb:

s/probably find

[14:07:23]

MythBork:

ok, thanks anyway guys

[14:07:33]

MythBork:

I'm checking in the ubuntu 9.10 channel now

[14:09:31]

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[14:16:16]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx, <font name="basesmall" face="Penguin Attack" depends="clock=1225????">

[14:16:42]

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[14:26:23]

mag0o:

dont steal my font! :)

[14:27:17]

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[14:27:18]

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[14:31:03]

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[14:31:23]

boss101:

:)

[14:32:05]

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[14:35:17]

iamlindoro:

mag0o, too bad for you, I'm going to release Childish-elegance w/ all the fonts changed to DejaVu ;)

[14:35:49]

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[14:36:50]

Dibblah:

Why?

[14:36:55]

Dibblah:

What's wrong with comic sans?

[14:37:26]

iamlindoro:

It's part of our new font exchange program

[14:37:46]

mag0o:

hehe

[14:37:46]

iamlindoro:

Arclight will get http://www.fecitfacta.com/fontsdontmatter.png and childish will get a nice, elegant sans :)

[14:38:29]

mag0o:

you could call it Childish-All_Grown_Up

[14:40:31]

Captain_Murdoch:

maybe we should put the font in a setting.... :)

[14:40:55]

** Captain_Murdoch crawls back under his rock **

[14:41:26]

Josh:

end-users dont' want settings

[14:41:31]

iamlindoro:

Now why'd you have to go and say a thing like that?

[14:41:34]

iamlindoro:

Now I have to set you on fire

[14:41:37]

Josh:

they would rather it JustWork(tm)

[14:41:45]

Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, my rock will protect me

[14:41:48]

iamlindoro:

Josh, He was being facetious, he knows

[14:42:17]

Josh:

iamlindoro, there you go using those 10-dollar words again :)

[14:42:31]

Captain_Murdoch:

Josh, you'd be surprised, we have hundreds of settings because (some) end users did want them.

[14:42:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

and it's hard to get rid of antiquated ones because some still want them.

[14:42:50]

iamlindoro:

And those same users are going to pitch a fit when we rip them out in the next little bit

[14:43:09]

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[14:43:20]

Josh:

Are two seperate master backends supported on the same network?

[14:43:42]

Captain_Murdoch:

different DB's yes. lots of devs have two masters, one dev, one production.

[14:43:47]

Josh:

I understand, they can't share data, but...

[14:43:52]

Josh:

gotcha.

[14:44:20]

Josh:

How do you keep the (new) backend from attempting to autodiscover the old (stable) backend's configuration?

[14:44:28]

Captain_Murdoch:

I have a cron that backs up my mythconverg DB nightly and restores to mythdev then runs a SQL script to fixup certain things to set the DB up for my dev environment.

[14:44:50]

Captain_Murdoch:

I dont' use discovery at all.

[14:45:46]

Josh:

so...

[14:46:06]

Josh:

just a --disable-upnp switch on all the programs?

[14:48:09]

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[14:48:24]

c3l:

what drivers should I get for my Technotrend Premium C-2300?

[14:49:19]

Josh_Borke:

the ones that support it ;-D

[14:51:48]

Josh:

c3l, mabye this will help? http://www.pvrweb.com/bbs/index.php?showtopic=4732

[14:52:43]

c3l:

Josh_Borke: problem is that I dont know what it supports =)

[14:52:48]

c3l:

Josh: ill check it out, ty

[14:53:57]

c3l:

why is there no sane wiki page or guide for stuff like this? ill put up one when ive managed to make it work

[14:54:42]

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[15:03:49]

oobe:

iamlindoro, i have a simplified menu i use to overwrite mainmene.xml on my frontend and have a key on my remote that restores the original and restarts the frontend if i want to change settings

[15:05:24]

oobe:

i think somthing like that is better for end users who want things to be simple than to remove advanced settings that other users have become accustomed to obviously my system is not ideal but a checkbox that hides advanced settings in the menu would be ideal

[15:05:37]

oobe:

or a key binding

[15:07:34]

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[15:19:01]

JEDIDIAH__:

are there any plans to do the sort of spinning floating image carosel thing that seems to be so pervasive in Front Row?

[15:25:57]

iamlindoro:

oobe: Sorry, the decision is more or less made, at least half of the settings are superfluous or so minor as to be silly, many/most of them will be excised

[15:26:08]

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[15:27:21]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: Is that to say the setting will be removed from Myth completely, or that it will be removed from the front end screens?

[15:27:26]

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[15:27:36]

iamlindoro:

More than likely removed completely

[15:28:06]

CyberKnet:

are we keeping a wiki page of which ones are going the way of the dodo?

[15:28:10]

iamlindoro:

many/most of them can be replaced with a sensible default, still others can be removed entirely as they no longer have any effect whatsoever

[15:28:16]

iamlindoro:

No

[15:28:21]

CyberKnet:

or is it a subscribe to the commits / dev list

[15:28:25]

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[15:28:35]

iamlindoro:

Nope, not even really there

[15:28:46]

CyberKnet:

I doubt it will affect me – I change very few settings

[15:29:12]

CyberKnet:

and most of those are things I think significant amounts of people would change

[15:29:19]

CyberKnet:

(like disabling the video preview)

[15:29:32]

iamlindoro:

That's a setting that's going away ;)

[15:29:40]

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[15:31:22]

CyberKnet:

for real, or are you just yanking my chain?

[15:31:29]

CyberKnet:

:)

[15:31:40]

iamlindoro:

For real

[15:31:48]

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[15:32:02]

iamlindoro:

a) It has no effect whatsoever now, and b) when the video widget is written, it will be determined by theme

[15:32:36]

CyberKnet:

I just have the static picture, not the moving video when I am in the view recordings screen

[15:33:00]

iamlindoro:

.22 has no video preview widget

[15:33:04]

iamlindoro:

thus the setting does nothing

[15:33:17]

CyberKnet:

oh

[15:33:28]

iamlindoro:

when it returns, it will be a choice made by the themer-- if the user doesn't have the horsepower to handle a video preivew they should choose a lighter theme

[15:34:06]

CyberKnet:

I took the "right now" to mean .21

[15:34:30]

iamlindoro:

right now = whatever the development version does at that moment (to me)

[15:35:04]

CyberKnet:

makes sense

[15:35:31]

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[15:37:07]

CyberKnet:

or modify the theme

[15:37:31]

iamlindoro:

if allowed by the theme license, yes

[15:38:58]

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[15:39:21]

oobe:

wow i never knew i could disabled moving pics in 21

[15:40:37]

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[15:46:31]

tmkt:

22 does rock

[15:48:10]

iamlindoro:

Yup :)

[15:49:27]

iamlindoro:

Heh, Hulu wants to charge a subscription fee, guess some of those canceled cable subs were a bit premature

[15:51:15]

sphery:

heh

[15:51:23]

sphery:

So is it definite this time?

[15:51:35]

wagnerrp:

so much for the use of the desktop then?

[15:51:42]

iamlindoro:

No set date or anything

[15:52:37]

iamlindoro:

Just a quote from one of the execs that they're exploring subscriptions for just-released shows, etc.

[15:52:55]

iamlindoro:

so sounds like you could still watch old shows for free, but current stuff would be subscription based

[15:53:17]

iamlindoro:

There's also the matter of it looking like horrible ass (IMHO)

[15:53:32]

wagnerrp:

well the only reason i would even consider it is something to prevent getting yelled at when mythtv drops a recording

[15:53:54]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Do you get a lot of dropped recordings?

[15:54:10]

wagnerrp:

when my cableco shuffles their lineup

[15:54:17]

iamlindoro:

ah, yeah

[15:54:21]

wagnerrp:

channels move around, mythtv fails to tune....

[15:54:34]

iamlindoro:

luckily since I'm only beholden to myself it's usually not a big deal

[15:54:56]

iamlindoro:

I have never managed to miss something that wasn't re-run shortly after (knock on wood)

[15:55:25]

wagnerrp:

well almost none of the broadcast stuff is rerun

[15:55:49]

wagnerrp:

cable stuff... they run several times a day

[15:55:57]

iamlindoro:

Fox reruns a little bit

[15:56:21]

mzb:

... remotes go missing

[15:56:44]

sphery:

"could watch old shows for free"--except when the network (NBC?) only allows episodes to be watched online for 2 weeks from original airdate.

[15:56:45]

wagnerrp:

CBS is the only channel ive really seen replay stuff, doing reruns after the season is over

[15:57:04]

wagnerrp:

although i was surprised to pick up flash forward on a friday, after it failed to record on a thursday

[15:57:40]

iamlindoro:

The CW (if you count them as a network) reruns a pantload

[15:57:59]

sphery:

ah, yeah, CW is a 2-week network

[15:58:19]

sphery:

(why I ended up buying an episode of Supernatural on XBox Live)

[15:59:02]

iamlindoro:

But the CW will also rerun the whole season for you over the summer :)

[15:59:03]

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[15:59:36]

sphery:

yes, but if you miss an episode that's near the end of the season and the show is so good you can't wait 'til the end of the summer to re-record it...

[15:59:40]

iamlindoro:

I picked up a lot of Lost (before I got the Blu rays) on my local affiliate's reruns of it (00:30 on Tuesdays, weird)

[15:59:59]

iamlindoro:

sphery: You have a thousand recordings, you can afford to wait ;)

[16:00:15]

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[16:00:24]

sphery:

heh

[16:00:30]

sphery:

but Supernatural!

[16:00:45]

sphery:

"I think it's fantastic that you've put so much effort into Mythv and wish I had the time to do half so much."

[16:00:49]

wagnerrp:

speaking of dropped recordings, i should finish up that script... (the one that tries to open livetv against all available digital channels)

[16:00:55]

wagnerrp:

only a matter of time before they do it again

[16:00:58]

sphery:

guess he doesn't realize that no on "has" the time--some of us just make time

[16:01:01]

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[16:01:35]

sphery:

wagnerrp: or http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6899 :)

[16:01:36]

iamlindoro:

sphery: "If only I had not life or loved ones, as you apparently don't..."

[16:01:52]

iamlindoro:

s/not/no/

[16:01:54]

sphery:

well, I couldn't argue with that one if someone said it to me

[16:02:01]

iamlindoro:

Oh stop it

[16:02:12]

sphery:

just saying I set my schedule my way

[16:02:43]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no, i want to run this nightly, make sure i can tune to the channel, and email the user warning them to do a rescan otherwise

[16:02:54]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, it was a joke

[16:02:56]

wagnerrp:

completely different behavior

[16:03:52]

sphery:

I really wish people would realize that fonts are /not/ FOSS. Sure, you can create fonts that are licensed under the same license, but a huge number of "free" fonts are actually fonts stolen from real fonts that some designer put a huge chunk of his time into making.

[16:04:29]

iamlindoro:

Adrian Frutiger is spinning in his grave

[16:04:31]

sphery:

and the fact that US copyright law allows that (tracing a font and making a new one from it) just makes things worse

[16:04:41]

iamlindoro:

Or would be, if he were dead

[16:04:45]

sphery:

heh

[16:05:14]

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[16:05:27]

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[16:05:31]

sphery:

I like the free font version

[16:05:49]

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[16:06:33]

iamlindoro:

Sadly, even though it was meant as a joke, there is certainly someone out there who would prefer to use it that way

[16:06:41]

iamlindoro:

which only proves my point about licensing

[16:08:09]

sphery:

exactly\

[16:08:23]

GreyFoxx:

I really thinkg that swirly font one would be a nice xmas theme :)

[16:08:39]

GreyFoxx:

And you can force the FE to reload the theme from outside without restarting :)

[16:08:49]

GreyFoxx:

send a USR1 signal to it :)

[16:09:00]

GreyFoxx:

USR2 reloads the lirc handler

[16:09:06]

MythBork:

hey sphery

[16:09:10]

MythBork:

thanks again

[16:09:24]

GreyFoxx:

killall -USR1 mythfrontend is very handy when making themes :)

[16:09:38]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx: doesn't work

[16:09:51]

iamlindoro:

mayb just be broken, but no worky

[16:09:52]

GreyFoxx:

ok, must have been broken at some point since it went in

[16:09:55]

sphery:

MythBork: all working for you?

[16:10:00]

GreyFoxx:

it use to when I added it :)

[16:10:10]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx: and what's more, it stands a better than even chance of hanging your frontend too :)

[16:10:10]

sphery:

yeah, I think it broke with the Qt4 port

[16:10:26]

MythBork:

sphery, you are gonna love this. After all our work, I found a serious bug in Mythbuntu that prevents sound for usb soundcards. its' kernel deep. I have to back up, install desktop 9.10 and then myth on top, then restore my db.

[16:10:27]

sphery:

Strange: [mythtv-users] OSD (menu) with VDPAU much bigger than others

[16:10:28]

GreyFoxx:

GetMythMainWindow()->JumpTo("Reload Theme");

[16:10:42]

GreyFoxx:

So that call no longer works? How does the appearance screen trigger the reload ?

[16:10:54]

GreyFoxx:

That could just be updated to do the same (which it was when it was added)

[16:11:16]

sphery:

MythBork: this time, make sure you do a full backup of the 0.22-fixes DB... And, shut down the thing that keeps restarting mythbackend when you restore it. :)

[16:11:25]

iamlindoro:

I'm sure it's probably a fairly trivial fix... I spent a few minutes looking at it a few weeks ago but got distracted

[16:11:43]

sphery:

we learned so much about Mythbuntu, MySQL, partitions, etc. last night

[16:12:13]

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[16:12:19]

GreyFoxx:

iamlindoro: Yeah

[16:12:21]

sphery:

iamlindoro: what? You focused on actual blockers, instead?

[16:12:25]

sphery:

:)

[16:12:28]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[16:12:43]

iamlindoro:

Heh, TBH I'm not sure if I got distracted by a blocker or just something more interesting/fun :)

[16:13:03]

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[16:13:30]

MythBork:

sphery, you aren't kidding

[16:13:51]

MythBork:

BTW, since I'm on an AMD64 processor.. is there any real benefit to going to the 64bit version?

[16:14:04]

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[16:14:17]

wagnerrp:

more space for disk caching

[16:14:47]

sphery:

Is MythCenter's (default's?) qtlook.txt also broken? Sounds like MythCenter-wide is OK?

[16:14:58]

wagnerrp:

its more... theres no real reason not to go to the 64-bit version

[16:15:13]

wagnerrp:

not unless you want to share nfsroot with a bunch of 32-bit machines

[16:15:27]

sphery:

MythBork: the 64-bit version may perform better

[16:15:44]

MythBork:

I'm going to give it a shot

[16:15:56]

sphery:

and, on a multi-lib distro, I'd agree that there's no reason not to go 64-bit

[16:16:17]

MythBork:

crap, what is the myth database backup script called again

[16:16:17]

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[16:16:58]

GreyFoxx:

GetMythMainWindow()->JumpTo("Reload Theme");

[16:17:15]

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[16:17:19]

GreyFoxx:

Hmmm That's all the fe does when you leave the appearance menus.... so the USR should work

[16:17:22]

GreyFoxx:

weird

[16:18:13]

sphery:

#7393 – economy of words, or just insufficient information?

[16:18:25]

iamlindoro:

Let me respond

[16:18:36]

sphery:

would be nice to at least get a version

[16:19:38]

sphery:

#7394 --oops... forgot that the whole wiki changed with the upgraded web site.

[16:20:23]

iamlindoro:

There, #7393 got a haiku response

[16:20:51]

iamlindoro:

economy of words indeed!

[16:21:20]

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[16:22:37]

wagnerrp:

if only you had remembered to double space, or use [[br]] tags

[16:23:19]

iamlindoro:

looks fine in e-mail :)

[16:23:35]

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[16:25:17]

iamlindoro:

You know, that bug was filed anonymous, so it'll never get its infoneeded

[16:25:28]

sphery:

iamlindoro: forgot to change Severity to Haiku

[16:25:32]

iamlindoro:

I would love to set trac to require an e-mail

[16:26:34]

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[16:29:10]

jams:

should give some thought to replacing trac

[16:30:24]

iamlindoro:

jams: Was looking for you last night to find a linHES logo, since cesman has dropped off the face of the planet, hopefully the one I dug up for the wiki is modernish

[16:31:15]

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[16:31:26]

jams:

he will be back in a few days

[16:31:34]

jams:

now aware of any official logo

[16:31:38]

iamlindoro:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Packages

[16:31:39]

jams:

which one did you grab?

[16:32:11]

jams:

yeah thats good

[16:32:41]

jams:

just glad it's the one with the yellow cropped out

[16:32:49]

jams:

the yellow bg

[16:34:06]

iamlindoro:

ew, yeah

[16:37:07]

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[16:38:11]

sphery:

wonder if there are any new podcasts from #7396 guy

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[16:50:49]

wagnerrp:

wow... that thread just keeps going...

[16:51:07]

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[16:56:48]

android6011:

if i have a backend only machine, is it possible to enable vdpau to help speed up commflagging and transcoding?

[16:56:53]

wagnerrp:

no

[16:57:11]

android6011:

so its only for frontends for video decoding?

[16:57:16]

wagnerrp:

for now

[16:57:22]

android6011:

ok

[16:57:42]

wagnerrp:

i heard mention that there seemed to be some interface available to pull the decoded 'textures' back out of the VPU

[16:57:53]

wagnerrp:

but i dont know if anyone has actually done it

[16:59:02]

wagnerrp:

however accelerating decoding isnt going to make a significant difference on things like commflagging and transcoding

[16:59:09]

wagnerrp:

which are very intensive tasks in and of themselves

[16:59:40]

wagnerrp:

you might halve the time to do a commflag at best

[16:59:52]

wagnerrp:

transcoding will shave a couple percent off

[16:59:54]

Dibblah:

They're not all that heavy.

[16:59:55]

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[17:00:06]

Dibblah:

And they are exactly designed for GPGPU.

[17:00:32]

wagnerrp:

Dibblah: well thats once someone rewrites them in OpenCL

[17:02:17]

wagnerrp:

that would be the logical choice, given all the GPU manufacturers of note support it now

[17:03:18]

iamlindoro:

HEh, then we'll have the incongruous situation of people running headless backends with multiple GPUs in SLI :)

[17:03:38]

wagnerrp:

no reason to run SLI

[17:04:00]

iamlindoro:

*sigh*, it was just a joke...

[17:04:17]

wagnerrp:

anyway, if/when that happens, VDPAU would probably be a limiting factor

[17:05:39]

wagnerrp:

VDPAU is only designed to be able to run a couple X in fast forward

[17:05:47]

wagnerrp:

theres no reason to go faster than that

[17:06:01]

wagnerrp:

which means something like ffmpeg-mt on a decent CPU would run circles around it

[17:07:29]

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[17:10:10]

iamlindoro:

heh, funny that superdump should escape the channel at exactly that moment ;)

[17:13:27]

wagnerrp:

VDPAU seems to manage ~2.5x at 1080i mpeg2, a high end dual core should be able to pull that off

[17:14:39]

wagnerrp:

alter the commflagger to run multithreaded (one decode, one process), and there would be no advantage to using VDPAU

[17:18:12]

MythBork:

hey guys, got everything working. is there a good palce to go to learn all the new stuff in the interface?

[17:18:20]

MythBork:

still have to give that tlak at my usergourp this weekend

[17:18:37]

wagnerrp:

not really anything new in the interface

[17:19:02]

MythBork:

seems to be tons from what I have seen

[17:19:09]

sphery:

wagnerrp: but with vdpau and a passively-cooled GPU, I could rate-limit my CPU fan to 30RPM

[17:19:11]

MythBork:

lots of changes in 0.22

[17:19:15]

sphery:

(joke)

[17:19:23]

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[17:19:29]

wagnerrp:

the UI has changed, and the themes looks different

[17:19:40]

wagnerrp:

but for the most part, its all the same stuff in all the same place

[17:19:45]

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[17:19:50]

wagnerrp:

the 'i' and 'm' menus have been adjusted

[17:20:10]

wagnerrp:

and theres a couple extra menus in mythvideo for artwork and such (or you do that with storage groups)

[17:20:12]

wagnerrp:

but thats about it

[17:20:15]

sphery:

I M (well) adjusted

[17:20:33]

MythBork:

alright, ill poke around

[17:20:34]

MythBork:

thanks again

[17:20:38]

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[17:20:55]

sphery:

and there's http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.22

[17:21:01]

sphery:

but you won't see it

[17:21:04]

wagnerrp:

always just a bit late...

[17:21:07]

sphery:

yep

[17:21:16]

sphery:

day late and a dollar short

[17:21:40]

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[17:21:49]

iamlindoro:

In a world filled with mythTV newbies, the man who hacks his way to a trunk install is king

[17:22:21]

sphery:

99% of his hacking was getting a not completely trashed DB backup

[17:22:27]

iamlindoro:

Given the last 24 hours of troubleshooting, maybe it would be wise to put off that talk for a week ;)

[17:22:49]

wagnerrp:

until the programinfo stuff starts up anyway

[17:23:09]

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[17:23:21]

wagnerrp:

i cant imagine the flood of tickets as people update their boxes only to find them horribly broken

[17:24:21]

iamlindoro:

Won't be as painful as the people who update their boxes and open tickets because they don't understand how things have changed

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[17:36:48]

Outlier:

I'm noticing a lot of blocky, pixelated noise in some recorded OTA TV, relative to what the live broadcast looked like. Not every show has the problem. Any suggestions as to what I should be looking for?

[17:37:35]

iamlindoro:

PC tuners are generally more sensitive to stream damage than the ones in your TV/Set Top Box

[17:37:54]

iamlindoro:

it's likely you have a borderline signal quality/high biterror and you're seeing it in Myth because of those reasons

[17:38:40]

Outlier:

iamlindoro Is there anything to be done about it? Filtering/amplifying the signal, or some sort of recording settings?

[17:38:45]

mchou:

Outlier: what card model is it?

[17:38:58]

Outlier:

pcHDTV 5500 I believe.

[17:39:21]

iamlindoro:

Outlier: You can attempt amplification, you can also try to minimize splits in the line before the card-- but if the signal is poor you could just end up amplifying noise

[17:39:50]

iamlindoro:

Outlier: Start by trying to remove splits-- you can use the command "femon -h" on the system with the tuner to monitor signal quality and biterror

[17:39:55]

Outlier:

When I did the setup, the affected stations seemed to be at about 60–70%.

[17:39:57]

mchou:

Outlier: you use an antenna?

[17:40:07]

sphery:

and make sure you terminate /all/ unused outputs on splitters

[17:40:22]

iamlindoro:

Outlier: Most people make the mistake of looking at signal strength, which is a more or less useless value

[17:40:28]

sphery:

(or better, change those 4-way splitters to 2-way and drop the signal half as much)

[17:40:34]

iamlindoro:

Outlier: Signal quality and bit error are much more useful

[17:40:47]

sphery:

half as much per, that is--so using 2 2-way splitters is not better than 1 4-way

[17:42:18]

Outlier:

mchou yes, I use an antenna.

[17:42:32]

Outlier:

sphery OK – I know they're not all terminated. Thanks for the reminder.

[17:43:25]

sphery:

non-terminated ones can have a huge impact on signal

[17:43:32]

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[17:43:45]

Outlier:

sphery I just have the one splitter, but it's like an 8-way. Looks like it has 3 unused and un-terminated connectors.

[17:43:49]

w0ls0n:

hello and good afternoon all

[17:43:50]

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[17:44:00]

mchou:

Outlier: lol

[17:44:03]

mchou:

8 way

[17:44:14]

iamlindoro:

Hope that 8 way isn't passive

[17:44:17]

mchou:

Outlier: you should have told us that first

[17:44:18]

sphery:

Outlier: if you can swap that out for a 4-way, you'll probably do /much/ better.

[17:44:37]

w0ls0n:

I am bulding my very first mythtv box ... just for testing .. 3000+, 2GB RAM and 750GB Hdd .. How do I change channels on my pc? Can anyone suggest a remote that will work with mythtv?

[17:44:39]

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[17:44:58]

Outlier:

sphery unfortunately, I actually need the extra lines.

[17:45:18]

oobe:

just look at the above convo i use femon to check the snr of the channel i get the worst reception status CVYL | signal 76% | snr 75% | ber 0 | unc 0 | FE_HAS_LOCK

[17:45:28]

oobe:

is 75% snr bad?

[17:45:37]

mchou:

oobe: those cant be trusted

[17:45:47]

mchou:

oobe: drivers lie

[17:45:47]

oobe:

testing one of the better channels snr is 100%

[17:45:49]

sphery:

Outlier: well, a 4-way with one going to a 2-way would be better to get your 5--and 3/5 would be pretty good quality

[17:45:51]

Outlier:

iamlindoro almost certainly is, but the signal feeding it is amplified.

[17:46:06]

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[17:46:22]

sphery:

oobe: SNR is only really useful for comparing 2 identical cards/drivers

[17:46:24]

iamlindoro:

Outlier: It would be sooooo worth it to invest in a powered drop amp if you need that many drops

[17:46:42]

sphery:

I have a powered amp for my 4-way split

[17:46:46]

iamlindoro:

Outlier: Depending on how much you are amping going in to the 8 way, it's almost certainly not enough to drive that many drops

[17:47:21]

mchou:

Outlier: recomment you use unit gain/amp for your 8 way

[17:47:33]

mchou:

recommend*

[17:48:06]

mchou:

Outlier: or just for sanity check go one way see if signal improves :)

[17:48:24]

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[17:48:24]

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[17:48:24]

Outlier:

sphery, iamlindoro: Fair enough – I'll see where I can find one.

[17:48:30]

Outlier:

mchou: Good idea.

[17:48:49]

highzeth:

Anyone with experience on EMP-Centauri multiswitches? In particular the 155-UP?

[17:48:51]

oobe:

is ber bitrate error?

[17:48:53]

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[17:48:55]

mchou:

Outlier: one way means REMOVE splitter

[17:50:09]

Outlier:

mchou: I understand that. No advantage to just disconnecting the other cables. Don't have that many terminators in any case.

[17:50:28]

mchou:

Outlier: yup, just making sure

[17:50:47]

Outlier:

AFK for a sec. Doorbell.

[17:52:07]

joe2371:

In setting up my digital cable channel callsigns, I've found what appears to be the Music Choice audio only channels. When I try to tune any of them, the FE complains and is unable to tune LiveTV until I restart the BE. Seems the trouble may be in part because FE defaults to the last watched channel.

[17:53:26]

mchou:

joe2371: enable "audio only stations" in myth

[17:53:30]

iamlindoro:

joe2371: There's a fairly old ongoing bug on that topic-- until it gets resolved it's probably best to delete or mark those channels as invisible

[17:53:53]

mchou:

joe2371: better yet just use mplayer for audio

[17:54:32]

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[17:55:10]

joe2371:

I thought I had it enabled. I'm not sure where to tell mythtv to use mplayer for audio only channels.

[17:55:32]

joe2371:

Perhaps disabling for the moment is the name of the game.

[17:55:37]

mchou:

joe2371: you dont "tell" mythtv to use mplayer

[17:55:55]

mchou:

you use mplayer for audio. PERIOD

[17:56:16]

w0ls0n:

anyone see my question?

[17:56:37]

joe2371:

mchou: in other words, don't use mythtv for those audio channels at all?

[17:56:37]

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[17:56:45]

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[17:56:46]

mchou:

joe2371: you got it

[17:56:50]

joe2371:

:-/

[17:57:19]

nearlyhugh:

hi – anyone here that might be able to help me troubleshoot tuning QAM HD channels?

[17:57:31]

mchou:

joe2371: mplayer dvb://MUSICSTATION

[17:57:42]

mchou:

joe2371: try it

[17:58:06]

iamlindoro:

nearlyhugh: You'll never know until you ask a question that doesn't involve volunteers ;)

[17:58:16]

nearlyhugh:

haha, ok

[17:58:27]

nearlyhugh:

I'm using a Hauppauge 1600 PCI tuner

[17:58:44]

nearlyhugh:

I can tune in a handful of HD channels using QAM-256

[17:58:45]

w0ls0n:

I am bulding my very first mythtv box ... just for testing .. 3000+, 2GB RAM and 750GB Hdd .. How do I change channels on my pc? Can anyone suggest a remote that will work with mythtv?

[17:58:55]

devinheitmueller:

nearlyhugh: let me guess: you get blocking/pixelation on certain channels with ClearQAM?

[17:58:56]

nearlyhugh:

the video comes through just fine, but the audio is garbled

[17:58:59]

joe2371:

mchou: I expect it works. But what good will that do me once I've detached the keyboard and I'm sitting there with my remote in hand.

[17:59:30]

Outlier:

v0ls0n: I'm new too, but what I'm using is a gyro air mouse & keyboard.

[17:59:31]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: yeah, what's the deal with that? :)

[17:59:56]

devinheitmueller:

nearlyhugh: how garbled? As in – everything that comes out is indecipherable? Or there are patches/periods of time where it's garbled?

[18:00:00]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: Yeah, I'm working on it.

[18:00:12]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: I isolated the problem last Sunday and am working on a fix.

[18:00:22]

nearlyhugh:

garbled as in totally indecipherable – random noise

[18:00:23]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: well, that's good news

[18:00:52]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: it's an endemic problem with that card

[18:00:57]

devinheitmueller:

nearlyhugh: that's quite a trick – given there is no audio decoder involved.

[18:01:13]

devinheitmueller:

nearlyhugh: does it happen on *all* HD channels?

[18:01:21]

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[18:03:00]

nearlyhugh:

on all HD channels, yes

[18:03:00]

devinheitmueller:

nearlyhugh: but it works fine for SD digital channels?

[18:03:00]

nearlyhugh:

SD is fine

[18:03:00]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: wait until devinheitmueller comes up with the workaround

[18:03:00]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: or better yet, just ditch the card :)

[18:03:00]

devinheitmueller:

nearlyhugh: When I saw "SD", I mean standard definition digital channels over ClearQAM, *not* analog standard channels.

[18:03:00]

nearlyhugh:

it's pretty odd – if it can tune in the channel, then the audio should be ok...

[18:03:00]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: it's not worth the headache when other cards just work

[18:03:10]

nearlyhugh:

oh, it's a dual tuner card – I have the analog tuner getting my SD channels, HD channels only over clearQAM

[18:03:19]

devinheitmueller:

nearlyhugh: ok.

[18:03:21]

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[18:03:29]

devinheitmueller:

hmmm....

[18:03:38]

nearlyhugh:

well, since I just dropped $80 on the card I'd like to try tinkering first ;)

[18:03:47]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: so what did you find out?

[18:03:55]

nearlyhugh:

if I didn't like tinkering I'd just use Win7 MCE ;)

[18:04:10]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: you mean the QAM performance issue? It's a bug in the s5h1409 driver.

[18:04:11]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: no, that means you're still within the return window

[18:05:13]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: I actually the SNR where it's supposed to be by hacking a couple of the registers, but now I have to figure out the correct fix.

[18:05:23]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: no amount of frustration is worth $80 :)

[18:05:28]

nearlyhugh:

the Hauppauge 1600 uses cx18...

[18:05:48]

Outlier:

mchou: Just took your suggestion on removing the splitter. according to femon, signal went from around 7700 to a800 or so. SNR went from about 1100 to about 1800.

[18:05:52]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: it uses plenty of other modules too

[18:06:14]

mchou:

Outlier: and the picture quality?

[18:06:24]

devinheitmueller:

nearlyhugh: cx18 is the bridge/mpeg encoder. It also uses the cx24227 (a.k.a. s5h1409) demodulator.

[18:06:33]

nearlyhugh:

gotcha

[18:06:51]

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[18:07:06]

Outlier:

mchou: Looks a bit better – going to have to see what it does to a recording though. Intermittent problems are a pain, but I'm taking it as given that better SNR is godly no matter if it was pretty good to start with.

[18:07:08]

devinheitmueller:

nearlyhugh: that said though, it's very strange that video would work but audio would not, since both are just MPEG packets coming off the wire and being forwarded to the PCI bus.

[18:07:20]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: the hvr-1600 is so bad that it borks my other good cards in my system, I kid you not

[18:07:44]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: I know there was a problem with the PCI memory reservation causing issues with certain Nvidia cards.

[18:08:01]

nearlyhugh:

yes – I enconutered the Nvidia problem myself

[18:08:01]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: I dont have nvidia on this box

[18:08:12]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: intel GN+MA

[18:08:17]

mchou:

GMA*

[18:08:25]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: (which requires a kernel startup parameter to tune)

[18:08:28]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: hmmm...

[18:09:02]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: if you mean vmalloc been there done that

[18:09:16]

nearlyhugh:

so, any suggestions for obvious things to try?

[18:09:36]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: I gave you the suggestions already

[18:09:39]

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[18:09:47]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: wait or toss

[18:09:53]

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[18:09:59]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: not joking about that

[18:10:01]

ForsGump:

ls

[18:10:03]

iamlindoro:

.

[18:10:04]

** ForsGump loves when he types in the wrong window..... **

[18:10:05]

iamlindoro:

..

[18:10:08]

iamlindoro:

filthyporn

[18:10:12]

iamlindoro:

filthymidgetporn

[18:10:17]

iamlindoro:

deleteifIamhitbyabus

[18:10:26]

ForsGump:

LOL

[18:10:38]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: yeah, I actually forget the name of the exact parameter.

[18:10:52]

nearlyhugh:

mchou: what card would you recommend?

[18:11:16]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: if you can find it pinnacle 800i

[18:11:23]

Outlier:

mchou: lol, picture looks better on the PC than the real TV now. Probably scaling. Any suggestions on a good kind of N-way amplified splitter?

[18:11:39]

nearlyhugh:

mchou: and if I can't find it?

[18:11:42]

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[18:11:44]

mchou:

Outlier: nah, you have to dig around on google

[18:11:52]

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[18:12:01]

Outlier:

mchou: fair enough. Thanks!

[18:12:01]

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[18:12:05]

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[18:12:05]

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[18:12:06]

mchou:

nearlyhugh: almost any other card that works on linux :)

[18:12:27]

mchou:

Outlier: google "unit gain amp"

[18:12:42]

Outlier:

mchou: ok, thanks again.

[18:13:00]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: I'm quite fond of the 800i. I did some work on it a couple of months ago for the xc5000 performance improvements.

[18:13:24]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: I've got 4. no joke

[18:13:35]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: that's how much I love it

[18:13:58]

mchou:

keep some spares in case it falls down :)

[18:14:07]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: it's a pretty good card. It's got a stupid PCB layout issue that prevented me from being able to put the tuner to sleep when not in use, but other than that it's pretty nice.

[18:14:20]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: yeah

[18:15:06]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: my issue is the kernel doesnt seen to load the firmware on wakeup from hibernation (suspend to hdd)

[18:15:16]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: really?

[18:15:36]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: well, the card doesnt "wake up"

[18:15:49]

devinheitmueller:

interesting.

[18:15:49]

sphery:

isn't that a system/distro issue?

[18:15:59]

mchou:

sphery: doubt it

[18:16:15]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: Well that's dumb.

[18:16:19]

mchou:

sphery: it might be a user config issue :)

[18:17:32]

GreyFoxx:

All this talk of themes , fonts and licensing is hilarious

[18:18:40]

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[18:19:18]

** GreyFoxx ponders getting of the -users list once more **

[18:19:24]

GreyFoxx:

getting rid of

[18:19:28]

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[18:24:06]

highzeth:

am I blind, or have the DTV Device Configuration screens vanished in trunk? http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Image:OptusD1-Devi . . . guration.jpg

[18:25:53]

sphery:

GreyFoxx: It's amazing how some people think that "freedom" includes the freedom to steal a font.

[18:26:36]

iamlindoro:

Ah entitlement culture

[18:28:22]

sphery:

highzeth: I know nothing of that screen, but I can say for a fact it has not disappeared in trunk (I see it in the source). All I can say is it's in the DiSEqC settings (

[18:28:42]

** mchou waits for the sheevaplug to come down on price **

[18:33:15]

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[18:33:50]

highzeth:

sphery: right, but how would I set tone/no tone on the given ports? Ive setup DiSEqC(4ports), where each port gets a 'tone' switch, and then the LNB's under there again.

[18:34:20]

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[18:36:26]

sphery:

I have no idea

[18:36:36]

sphery:

I was doing good to even spell DiSEqC right

[18:36:45]

sphery:

(actually had to look it up :)

[18:37:40]

highzeth:

hehe, Im stumped, since I cant seem to find the tone/no tone option

[18:37:52]

sphery:

highzeth: I will say there's a good trunk/0.22 write up at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S

[18:38:00]

sphery:

done by someone who's /much/ smarter than I

[18:38:20]

sphery:

doesn't seem to mention tone, though

[18:38:57]

iamlindoro:

It is definitely not done by anyone smarter than you

[18:39:01]

sphery:

nor where to find the tone settings (Tone Loc, I suppose?)

[18:39:13]

sphery:

location... get it?

[18:39:37]

highzeth:

nope, thats more a "basic" DiSEqC setup rather than the Multiswitch Im hammering my head at. The SBE's are a-ok since they are on 4:1 DiSEqC's, but the pesky Multiswitch is getting the better of me

[18:48:09]

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[18:51:11]

j-rod:

what the *bleep* kind of crack-riddled miro packages have an explicit dependency on a specific version of nvidia drivers?

[18:51:33]

j-rod:

packaging FAIL

[18:51:48]

sphery:

wow

[18:53:49]

RDV_Linux:

j-rod: That one I have not seen this issue and I have used Miro v2.0.3, 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 all with Ubuntu and a few different versions of the nvidia drivers.

[18:54:37]

iamlindoro:

The issue is caused by using third-party packaged nvidia drivers

[18:54:53]

iamlindoro:

Anyone using the actual ubuntu repositories will be fine

[18:56:55]

** iamlindoro adds Christopher Meredith to the "to set on fire" list **

[18:56:59]

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[18:57:05]

j-rod:

hahaha, I just read that mail... concur

[18:57:15]

resno:

Has anyone bought wnidows 7?

[18:57:22]

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[18:57:24]

j-rod:

but is the dependency in miro or in the nvidia drivers?

[18:57:27]

resno:

sp/wnidows/windows

[18:57:31]

iamlindoro:

(repeating myself from another channel) the inference seems to be that I somehow want to stifly creativity, which is the last thing I want-- *all* I want is for people to experience it as I wrote it

[18:57:53]

j-rod:

it sounds like the miro package itself has a dep on the specific nvidia driver version, which is effing ridiculous

[18:57:57]

** j-rod trying very hard not to swear **

[18:58:16]

iamlindoro:

j-rod: May be a fundamental issue w/ information credibility there :)

[18:58:29]

j-rod:

iamlindoro: why do you hate America?!?

[18:58:29]

iamlindoro:

ie, does the reporter understand well enough to know what's going on, and signs point to no

[18:58:33]

j-rod:

freedom-hater.

[18:58:46]

iamlindoro:

j-rod: exactly, not America, just freedom

[18:58:48]

j-rod:

yeah, that could be too

[18:59:13]

j-rod:

yeah, but the quote is best when said w/America in there, in a voice imitating GWB

[18:59:44]

iamlindoro:

Plus, the lectures from people who don't have several hundred commits/closed tickets/several thousand lines of code in myth/completed GPL themes ring a little hollow with me :)

[18:59:59]

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[19:00:06]

resno:

wagnerrp: is it safe to buy computer components today? or should i wait a day or so?

[19:00:10]

j-rod:

yeah. "I've never done SHIT, but I'm going to bash someone who has to no end!"

[19:00:12]

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[19:00:27]

wagnerrp:

why would it not be safe?

[19:00:27]

j-rod:

oops, potty mouth

[19:00:28]

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[19:00:30]

resno:

wagnerrp: as far as the price drop, etc for oct 22nd

[19:00:48]

wagnerrp:

what price drop?

[19:00:51]

j-rod:

kindly stfu and write something yourself then

[19:01:11]

wagnerrp:

AMD is releasing some new processors shortly

[19:01:19]

resno:

wagnerrp: when i was looking at computer components you suggested i wait until today.

[19:01:27]

wagnerrp:

but theres no mention of a price drop

[19:01:35]

iamlindoro:

j-rod: I posited the other day that unfreidnly, rude, and unyielding behavior on the part of a theme author does FAR more to get people writing themes than people who yield to everything

[19:01:38]

resno:

wagnerrp: correct.

[19:02:01]

j-rod:

iamlindoro++;

[19:02:13]

sphery:

iamlindoro: exactly--if you give people everything they want in a theme, the people will never get motivated to do their own

[19:02:16]

iamlindoro:

Why write a theme when you've got a slave to do it for you, however you wish?

[19:02:38]

sphery:

resno: I may have mentioned to you that AMD was releasing some new proc's today and that I plan to wait for that proc

[19:02:41]

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[19:02:50]

sphery:

The AMD Athlon II X2 240e

[19:02:56]

resno:

sphery: ah, maybe thats what i was thinking.

[19:03:02]

sphery:

(church bells ring)

[19:03:06]

sphery:

what a wonderful chip!

[19:03:14]

resno:

sphery: have you ordered it?

[19:03:23]

wagnerrp:

not available for ordering yet

[19:03:23]

sphery:

newegg doesn't have it up, yet

[19:03:24]

mag0o:

goes great with fish

[19:03:33]

sphery:

they technically released it on the 20th

[19:03:39]

sphery:

but availability is another story

[19:03:45]

resno:

of course.

[19:03:58]

Wicked:

slightly off topic..but does anyone here use handbreak to rip there dvds to x264 or xvid? if so how do you like it? and any advice if you have any

[19:04:13]

sphery:

I heard rumors they were going to release it on the 22nd, but they must have decided not to let it get drowned out in the Win 7 news

[19:04:26]

joe2371:

I have a strange situation. Somehow it has happened that the channel numbers themselves are no longer correctly paired with their frequencies. So the guide identifies, say, 111#0 as ID, and schedules direct agrees that ID is on 111#0, but tuning to the channel, I see that it is TNTHD. How might this be?

[19:04:29]

iamlindoro:

Wicked: handbrake is quite good-- no advice per se, but it is quite a good program

[19:05:07]

iamlindoro:

I really hope that thread doesn't choose to die on Chris Meredith's response

[19:05:12]

Wicked:

iamlindoro, i just used it on my server to rip a movie to x264.....used the command line equivilant to the "film" preset

[19:05:16]

Wicked:

about to see how it looks

[19:05:27]

sphery:

joe2371: the # means that there was no information in the stream when you scanned about the channel number/name, so you need to edit it manually--and specify the xmltvid

[19:05:54]

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[19:06:22]

sphery:

joe2371: you really should delete all video sources ( http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034 ), then after a rescan, but before running mythfilldatabase, edit channel number and name. You may need to use the mythfrontend channel editor to do this (so you can see what channel it is when you type in the SD-provided xmltvid).

[19:06:33]

iamlindoro:

(80 messages in that thread-- longest -users thread I have still been reading)

[19:06:51]

joe2371:

crud

[19:06:59]

sphery:

joe2371: and if you're a comcast user, there's a good chance that you should look at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Comcast_Users_And_scte65scan --which will take care of everything (getting good channel name/number/xmltvid) for you

[19:07:12]

joe2371:

oh yeah? ...

[19:07:16]

joe2371:

hmm...

[19:07:19]

sphery:

assuming your local branch has switched to scte65

[19:07:38]

sphery:

but, it can't hurt to try

[19:07:44]

sphery:

likely much easier

[19:08:12]

Wicked:

hmm. movie came out to 1.6GB's and looks ok...kinda disappointed to see a little bit of blockiness in full screen.

[19:08:15]

resno:

are there any mini-itx boards with builin hdmi?

[19:08:20]

joe2371:

I'll give that a go... should I still delete all video sources again even if I try the scte65scan?

[19:08:23]

Wicked:

for the filesize i guess i expected better quality

[19:08:53]

sphery:

Wicked: transcoded?

[19:09:00]

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[19:09:03]

sphery:

ah, yeah, I see above

[19:09:10]

decke:

good evening

[19:09:14]

Wicked:

i ripped a dvd to x264 with handbrake

[19:09:20]

Wicked:

..kinda off topic.

[19:09:32]

Wicked:

guess im just thinking out loud :)

[19:09:33]

sphery:

decke: you were the qtwebkit guy?

[19:09:56]

decke:

sphery: no i'm the FreeBSD one

[19:10:12]

sphery:

oh... sorry. Too many new people recently

[19:10:24]

decke:

good for the project :o)

[19:10:25]

sphery:

was going to give you an update--but you probably don't care about the qtwebkit stuff :)

[19:10:31]

sphery:

yeah, true

[19:11:16]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: wrt hours ago – modifying the theme "if the theme allows for it" ... That on the surface sounds unreasonable, but I can see what you mean. I don't think I would ever use one that prohibited me modifying the theme for my own liking, but at the same time I don't think that Myth would include by default a theme with that kind of license, so I would have sought out my own problem.

[19:11:43]

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[19:12:00]

iamlindoro:

CyberKnet: Knowingly or Un, you have very likely used multiple myth themes whose license prevents you from writing derivative works

[19:12:07]

decke:

wagnerrp: are you around?

[19:12:17]

sphery:

Yeah, the whiners are just upset because there's no(t yet) GPL-licensed theme that even comes close to ArcLight in terms of quality.

[19:13:08]

sphery:

of course, when you have a GPL-licensed theme that's 100x better than ArcLight and add time (+random patches), there's no way it will be as good as ArcLight

[19:13:37]

sphery:

Well, Leonardo, that smile is a little crooked. Let me just fix it for you.

[19:13:41]

iamlindoro:

TBH, for the first time I am seriously considering not releasing it at all (or if I do, just sharing it w/ friends/folks that I know)

[19:13:57]

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[19:13:59]

resno:

sphery: what do you think of this board? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500029

[19:14:02]

sphery:

Hmm. Picaso... Your glasses must have been off when you did this one. I'll just touch it up for you.

[19:14:12]

wagnerrp:

decke: sure

[19:14:51]

sphery:

resno: I can't comment. My mother always said, "If you don't have something nice to say about an over-hyped, over-priced, under-powered CPU, don't say anything."

[19:15:09]

resno:

sphery: do you not like the ones with builin cpus?

[19:15:27]

decke:

wagnerrp: don't know if you remember the last state yesterday... you've given me your g++ line that builds your libmythtv/DVDReadBuffer.cpp or something like that

[19:15:32]

sphery:

I believe CPU's should have quintillions of atoms.

[19:15:38]

sphery:

One Atom is not enough.

[19:15:46]

wagnerrp:

decke: yeah

[19:15:55]

decke:

i've compiled without mythtv 0.21 and got the same error

[19:16:00]

decke:

and then used your g++ line

[19:16:02]

resno:

sphery: i am looking for a board with builtin hdmi. do you know any?

[19:16:04]

decke:

and also got the same error

[19:16:27]

decke:

so it looks like the libmythdvdnav is the problem and we're just seeing the effect

[19:17:05]

sphery:

resno: No. My TV doesn't do HDMI, so I haven't looked at all. I also keep my mobo-shopping to a very restricted subset. (Just because I'm a bit of a 45W TDP fan boy, lately.)

[19:17:55]

resno:

sphery: i would like hdmi becuase when using vga, i get weird artifact box on my screen

[19:18:03]

resno:

at the top right corner.

[19:18:17]

mchou:

sphery: I'm not so sure 45WTDP actually sucks much less power, say compared to 65W TDP procs

[19:18:49]

mchou:

sphery: the chipset kinda hogs power consumption above and beyond CPUs

[19:18:56]

sphery:

mchou: no, they're from the same line, so if I'm lucky, I could get a 65W TDP proc that actually sucks less power than the 45W TDP

[19:19:13]

sphery:

mchou: then again, I could get one that actually sucks 64W when max'ed

[19:19:36]

sphery:

mchou: and, yeah, that's why I'm going with AMD/ATI chipset with built-in GPU.

[19:19:51]

wagnerrp:

decke: ill check to see if im running something different than trunk

[19:20:01]

wagnerrp:

i know i made a couple patches to make things compile

[19:20:06]

wagnerrp:

but i thought they got committed

[19:20:17]

mchou:

sphery: I'm saying proc power util pales in comparison with chipset power util

[19:20:22]

sphery:

AMD 45W CPU + ATI chipset is working great for me--and the $10-$15 extra for one AMD tested to work at <45W is worth it to me

[19:20:44]

sphery:

mchou: and I'm saying I understand that, and I've also chosen the chipset based on power usage :)

[19:20:44]

wagnerrp:

decke: no, 'svn diff' says im running stock

[19:20:46]

M0nk3e:

is there an easy way to run tmdb.pl to download all the metadata for all videos in a directory?

[19:20:55]

wagnerrp:

M0nk3e: JAMU

[19:21:04]

M0nk3e:

thankyou

[19:21:08]

decke:

i will try to workaround that problem by using gcc instead of g++ and see how far i get...

[19:21:23]

mchou:

sphery: ati displays work well in linux now?

[19:21:25]

wagnerrp:

although it doesnt run ttvdb.py or tmdb.pl, it processes those APIs internally

[19:21:37]

decke:

will investigate later ... probably it's a qt 4.5 thing

[19:21:39]

sphery:

mchou: dedicated backend--doesn't even run X :)

[19:21:53]

RDV_Linux:

M0nk3e: Please follow the Jamu wiki

[19:21:53]

sphery:

only my frontend will continue to have nvidia

[19:22:19]

mchou:

sphery: screw that man. You cant beat the sheevaplug. 6W pwer draw :)

[19:22:23]

mchou:

power*

[19:22:49]

sphery:

heh, that is nice

[19:22:58]

AndrewNC:

any fedora users here upgrade (or reinstall) from 10 to 11 on their mythboxes?

[19:23:00]

RDV_Linux:

M0nk3e: Jamu does your whole MythVideo collection it is not really meant for specific directories

[19:23:05]

sphery:

but I also want sufficient resources to actually do what I need done :)

[19:23:23]

AndyCap:

sphery: oh, you don't want a 45nm 6502? :)

[19:23:31]

M0nk3e:

Thats great exactly what i wanted

[19:23:35]

mchou:

sphery: bah. that's where your frontend comes in.

[19:24:22]

** j-rod debates getting a mac mini server, then the current mail server could become the mythbackend, but is an 8-way opteron with 10G of RAM overkill? **

[19:24:34]

sphery:

AndyCap: sounds like it might be good for my shoes

[19:24:38]

decke:

database support in mythtv 0.22 did not change significantly ? so mysql is king with 0.22 too?

[19:24:52]

** j-rod notes that the current backend is *also* overkill... but hey, smoke 'em if you got 'em... **

[19:24:56]

mchou:

sphery: I'm convinced very usable frontends on NMTs are just around the corner (with HW blu-ray display chips)

[19:24:59]

iamlindoro:

Myth will always be tightly bound to MySQL

[19:25:04]

AndyCap:

j-rod: not to mention using it for a mailserver.

[19:25:06]

iamlindoro:

that is unlikely to ever change

[19:25:20]

iamlindoro:

if anything, our momentum is towards integrating it more tightly/internalizing it

[19:25:25]

sphery:

decke: MySQL 5.0.15 or above

[19:25:40]

j-rod:

well, its more than just a mail server, it does some heavy-duty spam filtering, runs as one of the rpm fusion build systems, hosts mythdora.com and a few other things...

[19:25:44]

sphery:

embedded MySQL ftw!

[19:25:47]

AndyCap:

internalizing it? are you looking at the other mysql thing?

[19:25:51]

decke:

okay so no chance for postgresql ?

[19:25:53]

AndyCap:

f-something?

[19:25:55]

sphery:

(except, of course, if you're talking about Oracle Corporation!)

[19:26:02]

iamlindoro:

No, just at embedded MySQL

[19:26:11]

sphery:

AndyCap: not Drizzle

[19:26:16]

AndyCap:

sphery: ah, that was it

[19:26:20]

iamlindoro:

Don't think PosteGRE will ever happen, no

[19:26:24]

sphery:

f-Drizzle?

[19:26:30]

mchou:

decke: you can probably hack up postgresql with ODBC :)

[19:26:36]

AndyCap:

sphery: nah, just my brain being defective

[19:26:44]

AndyCap:

ingres!

[19:26:50]

sphery:

decke: there's a /lot/ of MySQL-isms in Myth

[19:27:14]

decke:

no i'm just having the problem of an "mostly read only" Compact Flash because of an embedded device

[19:27:15]

sphery:

Don't do ingres without a good egress.

[19:27:54]

AndyCap:

it's just a rout

[19:28:35]

mchou:

decke: that's what tnpfs or ram disks are for

[19:28:43]

mchou:

tmpfs*

[19:29:01]

decke:

yeah i'll probably go that way...

[19:29:29]

decke:

or put the mysql data file on magnetic rust

[19:29:51]

AndyCap:

decke: umm, and the recordings?

[19:30:00]

decke:

they are on magnetic rust anyway

[19:30:19]

decke:

but you can spin down that disks most of the time

[19:30:30]

decke:

that box won't record the whole day

[19:31:27]

mchou:

decke: yeah, but journaling might make the disks spin all day

[19:31:37]

decke:

that's why ext2 is used

[19:31:51]

decke:

or nilfs2 if you're crazy enough to give it a try

[19:39:14]

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[19:42:29]

decke:

wagnerrp: don't know what "-E" means to g++ but it helps

[19:44:06]

wagnerrp:

well as mentioned, that was all what 'configure' chose to do

[19:45:34]

decke:

hm okay i'm at the next problem... avformatdecoder.cpp breaks...

[19:46:38]

decke:

looks like this http://bsdpaste.bsdgroup.de/7175

[19:47:42]

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[19:48:46]

wagnerrp:

mine seems to be quite a bit bigger

[19:49:20]

wagnerrp:

7176, same page

[19:49:23]

decke:

looks a bit like it takes libavcodec from the system

[19:52:16]

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[19:53:12]

decke:

wagnerrp: could you check if you have ffmpeg installed? pkg_info | grep ffmpeg

[19:53:49]

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[19:56:19]

wagnerrp:

no ffmpeg

[19:56:35]

tbone:

futzing around with myth i see that when playing music it doesn't poke the screensaver/idle stopwatch or is it just me?

[19:56:40]

decke:

wagnerrp: install it if you want to get some cool build errors :o)

[19:56:41]

joe2371:

when using scte65scan for the first time, should I delete any existing digital sources? I'm wondering where in the howto process I'm exprected to insert the scte65scan's sql file into mythconverg.

[19:56:58]

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[19:57:27]

wagnerrp:

so... just need to figure out why freebsd gets the wrong include ordering

[19:57:31]

joe2371:

after creating the video source, but before doing a channel scan? After a scan, but before running mythfilldatabase?

[19:57:45]

decke:

i think the way you use --extra-cflags and --extra-ldflags is the problem

[19:58:19]

decke:

that way /usr/local/include is pulled in too early ... exactly the same way as was with 0.21

[19:58:53]

decke:

but i've hacked the configure a bit to find the system libs in /usr/local correctly and installation looks better then...

[19:58:55]

wagnerrp:

decke: well without that, it wasnt pulling in the necessary dependencies automatically

[19:59:19]

decke:

yep i've hacked that ...

[20:00:04]

decke:

i'm not sure if my hack is really so wrong...

[20:00:10]

sphery:

tbone: that's probably by design

[20:00:11]

joe2371:

So... try something and see what happens, then?

[20:00:26]

tbone:

by the way wagner good job putting in the lircd option works perfect!

[20:00:34]

wagnerrp:

tbone: eh?

[20:01:07]

decke:

wagnerrp: http://bsdpaste.bsdgroup.de/7177

[20:01:30]

tbone:

wagnerrp: i thought i talked to you a couple months about being able select lircd , and its in myth .22 i thought you did it.

[20:01:48]

wagnerrp:

tbone: no idea what youre talking about

[20:02:01]

wagnerrp:

similarly, i dont know of any change in lirc behavior between 0.21 and 0.22

[20:02:32]

tbone:

yeah , you couldn't selt /dev/lircd2 for example

[20:02:53]

wagnerrp:

for running two independent lirc daemons?

[20:03:00]

wagnerrp:

not sure why you would want to do such a thing

[20:03:11]

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[20:03:19]

tbone:

well its for multiseat

[20:03:41]

wagnerrp:

i mentioned running different home directories, so they would pick up different lircrc configs

[20:04:09]

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[20:04:56]

** wagnerrp is not a myth dev **

[20:06:16]

tbone:

wagnerrp: dude inside of myth you can select lirc dameon you want to monitor, you couldn't do that before it hardwired to select lircd0

[20:06:46]

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[20:06:48]

tbone:

wagnerrp: i though you was the one that put in that option

[20:07:21]

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[20:08:43]

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[20:08:45]

tbone:

wagnerrp: anyways cheers for whoever did it, it makes my life easier configuring.

[20:10:15]

wagnerrp:

looks like that would be.... danielk, rev19499

[20:10:38]

tbone:

Has anyone though of integrating a streaming audio server on the backend, so that you could play audio on differnet frontends at the same time?

[20:11:22]

tbone:

kind of like the way you can play video from one tuner, but i guess a little different

[20:11:58]

wagnerrp:

that is more something to be implemented outside of mythtv

[20:13:09]

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[20:13:26]

tbone:

hmm , then maybe just a frontend feature to listen a play from a port?

[20:13:50]

Outlier:

for a new HD front-end box, is ext3 good enough, or do I need to use XFS?

[20:13:58]

wagnerrp:

being able to synchronize playback on multiple frontends has been discussed before

[20:14:16]

wagnerrp:

however its damn hard to put machines in lock step across standard ethernet

[20:14:24]

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[20:14:53]

wagnerrp:

you can pick out offsets in audio playback on the order of a couple milliseconds

[20:15:24]

wagnerrp:

and dealing with network latency, audio hardware latency, and a bunch of other stuff

[20:15:30]

wagnerrp:

its not trivial to do

[20:15:44]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: it would be unknowingly used – which themes are that way? I suppose I may have already broken those licenses.

[20:16:29]

Outlier:

It's quite old-school, but what about just putting an RF transmitter on your back-end machine, and receivers on your front-ends? As I recall they're cheap.

[20:16:46]

wagnerrp:

usually systems that do such a thing have some sort of external timing signal they can all synchronize to

[20:17:18]

wagnerrp:

Outlier: the problem with ext3 is that it does not handle deletion of large files well

[20:17:33]

wagnerrp:

when deleting a file of several GB, your program can block for tens of seconds

[20:17:56]

wagnerrp:

however you can use the 'slow delete' feature of mythtv to work around that limitation

[20:18:02]

iamlindoro:

CyberKnet: for a very long time, all of Justin's themes (blootube, glass, grayhem, etc) and until recently, Metallurgy

[20:18:05]

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[20:18:21]

Outlier:

wagnerrp: true, but what files would a front-end even need to deal with? I'm converting a diskless front-end into a more standard computer, so I'm thinking it shouldn't matter, but I don't really know.

[20:18:23]

wagnerrp:

for a frontend, it makes absolutely no difference

[20:18:42]

wagnerrp:

because a frontend is going to be accessing data over NFS, or over mythproto

[20:18:50]

Outlier:

wagnerrp: Ok, then I'll go with ext3 then. KISS principle, basically.

[20:19:20]

wagnerrp:

why moving away from diskless if you already have it working?

[20:19:45]

Outlier:

It wasn't working all that well.

[20:20:27]

Outlier:

Also, I had to rebuild the server that the back-end is on, and would prefer to not deal with the diskless thing this time around.

[20:20:31]

CyberKnet:

Hmm... I used Iulius for the last few years, but did switch to Metallurgy in the last month or so.

[20:20:59]

yfaykya:

Anyone here familiar with how the onscreen keyboard works?

[20:21:31]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: I suppose I would strongly petition those who create themes to use a license that at least allows for the user to have the freedom to modify the theme – even if they may not distribute it. That is the themers right to not allow anything though.

[20:21:46]

yfaykya:

I was using mythtv-setup to edit a box at bottom of screen and keyboard poped up below so half it was offscreen.

[20:22:35]

yfaykya:

I managed to get it to pop up on top by not editing midline but cursoring to the end

[20:23:59]

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[20:27:33]

decke:

wagnerrp: i can see it now... in libmythtv.pro there is a hack for /usr/local/include to put it at the end and that nearly works

[20:28:26]

decke:

but FREETYPE_CFLAGS has -I/usr/local/include and breaks that hack

[20:28:57]

decke:

looks like that hack should also consider FREETYPE_CFLAGS

[20:30:46]

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[20:35:35]

wagnerrp:

if youre running mythtv on freebsd, what tuners?

[20:36:21]

decke:

i'm just using the frontend on freebsd ...

[20:36:25]

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[20:36:36]

wagnerrp:

ah

[20:36:47]

wagnerrp:

was going to ask how you managed to get any of them to work...

[20:37:26]

decke:

times seem to get better but most drivers currently only support DVB-T or DVB-C cards

[20:37:29]

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[20:38:43]

justinh:

blimey that thread has got legs

[20:38:43]

wagnerrp:

yeah, theres been a package for my 150s for some time, but ive never gotten it to work

[20:38:43]

wagnerrp:

and theres some bug with trunk and the HDHR on fbsd

[20:38:47]

sphery:

[mythtv-users] Question about mythfilldatabase? — likely another atom user :)

[20:39:21]

wagnerrp:

what does mfd have to do with atom users?

[20:39:52]

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[20:39:56]

wagnerrp:

too little power to process the file AND run mythtv?

[20:40:09]

iamlindoro:

justinh: f**king people

[20:41:36]

justinh:

I was gonna chip in & explain the things going on in that thread are why I threw my toys out of the pram.. then I thought better of it

[20:42:03]

justinh:

lecturing folks about not taking OSS contributors for granted will get nobody anywhere

[20:42:39]

justinh:

and I'm not going to say don't let the bastards get you down, cos it never worked when folk said it to me

[20:42:41]

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[20:42:51]

justinh:

:)

[20:43:26]

iamlindoro:

Maybe I'll just distribute it upon request, and I have to know you to give a copy

[20:44:19]

justinh:

looking at the bastardisation of themes doing the rounds that have started to appear out of the woodwork I'd say you made the right choice

[20:44:47]

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[20:45:45]

iamlindoro:

justinh: Yup, and that had an awful lot to do with it

[20:45:45]

wagnerrp:

what was it that guy said to kormoc?

[20:45:45]

kormoc:

You just don't understand open source!

[20:45:52]

iamlindoro:

People who add a row to a buttonlist, which now overlaps all the textareas, and release it as a new theme? Save me from that type of stuff

[20:45:55]

wagnerrp:

thats the on!

[20:45:57]

wagnerrp:

one

[20:46:07]

iamlindoro:

Heh

[20:46:38]

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[20:46:40]

iamlindoro:

YAY! I got message #100 in the thread

[20:47:51]

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[20:48:46]

iamlindoro:

Still, you've got to admit, for me, I've shown a lot of patience in this thread ;)

[20:48:48]

XLV_ is now known as XLV

[20:50:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

you're just stailling until you can collect enough firewood and gasoline

[20:50:30]

wagnerrp:

nah, just get some tar

[20:50:37]

wagnerrp:

that way they can still run around

[20:50:42]

kormoc:

Tar and Fire, what a great combo

[20:50:54]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch: Haha, that's really funny given I PM'd someone nearly that exact comment about 30 minutes ago :)

[20:51:30]

iamlindoro:

[1:10pm] iamlindoro: I'm just trying to get them to step closer so I can set them on fire

[20:52:14]

wagnerrp:

iamtrogdoro

[20:52:26]

iamlindoro:

Burninated

[20:53:25]

CyberKnet:

hmmm... burnination.

[20:53:35]

CyberKnet:

actually ... am I the one getting burninated?

[20:53:47]

wagnerrp:

Captain_Murdoch: a while back you mentioned a '-1' for chanid and starttime would allow you to run a job through the jobqueue without one?

[20:53:55]

iamlindoro:

not unless you're on.... the thread

[20:54:00]

CyberKnet:

I feel like you're talking about an email thread, but I also feel like the email thread is about theme modifications

[20:54:14]

CyberKnet:

and I've been talking about theme modification in here ;)

[20:54:16]

iamlindoro:

yes, and yes

[20:54:32]

CyberKnet:

but not redistribution. I don't want to modify and redistribute

[20:55:20]

iamlindoro:

Not much I can do about people modifying it in their own homes-- but as people seem not to get, it's not about the right to enforcement action, it's about wanting people to use it as written

[20:55:43]

iamlindoro:

And if I can't assure that, at least be certain that the copy they get is the one I wrote

[20:56:36]

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[20:57:49]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: and to be clear – I am not pressing you or anyone else to not exercise that right.

[20:58:12]

justinh:

iamlindoro: yuo can fix it. binary themes, guy :D

[20:58:21]

CyberKnet:

It wouldn't do any good if I was. But still, I am not.

[20:58:29]

justinh:

if it's good enough for XBMC :P

[20:58:34]

iamlindoro:

CyberKnet: it's fine, nobody is upset with you :)

[20:58:45]

iamlindoro:

justinh: heh... "then you just run it through the theme compiler..."

[20:58:59]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: Yep, I know. Just want to be clear.

[20:59:29]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: that would seem to be the "problem" with open source, wouldn't it? If the application has to be able to read it...

[20:59:54]

iamlindoro:

naw, you could fairly easily distribute a binary theme, justinh is right

[20:59:59]

iamlindoro:

as he mentions, XBMC does it

[21:00:40]

CyberKnet:

Just don't tell RMS

[21:00:42]

CyberKnet:

;)

[21:00:52]

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[21:02:07]

wagnerrp:

it would be very easy to have it be a compiled instance of the theme object as loaded by the UI code

[21:02:07]

wagnerrp:

although that wouldnt prevent someone who knows a bit of C from picking it apart

[21:02:07]

sphery:

binary is only useful for obfuscating stuff if it's extremely hard to go from binary to editable

[21:02:07]

wagnerrp:

they would have to do it line by several thousand line though

[21:02:07]

sphery:

just ask anyone who knows a little about Java bytecode or MSIL.

[21:02:11]

iamlindoro:

A theme isn't that hard to copy from looking at it alone, if you have some MythUI knowledge

[21:02:17]

sphery:

yeah

[21:02:18]

iamlindoro:

but at least that's a "cleanroom implementation"

[21:02:30]

sphery:

even easier than stealing fonts by tracing their outlines

[21:02:38]

MythBork:

Quick question – in 0.22, do you need to download backgrounds and trailers by hand or are there scripts somewhere that can do that?

[21:02:45]

wagnerrp:

you press 'w'

[21:02:54]

wagnerrp:

trailers are all done by hand for now

[21:03:04]

wagnerrp:

no real source of trailers to speed of

[21:03:05]

sphery:

scan in mythvideo, then w for metadata and artwork

[21:03:07]

iamlindoro:

Trailers you are on your own, if by backgrounds you mean fanart, then yes, select an item and press "W"

[21:03:13]

wagnerrp:

besides the youtube links handed out by tmdb

[21:03:18]

MythBork:

ah, ok

[21:03:20]

sphery:

and look at Jamu, too

[21:03:29]

** sphery thinks? **

[21:03:39]

CyberKnet:

sphery does?

[21:03:44]

** CyberKnet ducks **

[21:03:46]

sphery:

lol

[21:03:57]

MythBork:

what is janu?

[21:03:59]

MythBork:

oops

[21:04:00]

sphery:

only occasionally

[21:04:00]

MythBork:

jamu

[21:04:11]

wagnerrp:

sphery thinks hard, meditates on a question... and then answers late

[21:04:44]

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[21:05:01]

MythBork:

thanks guys, was exploring and couldnt find it on google

[21:05:14]

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[21:05:20]

sphery:

was just about to mention the release notes, again

[21:05:33]

** wagnerrp points a couple lines up **

[21:06:11]

CyberKnet:

First time I heard jamu I thought it was some kind of Jamaican name

[21:06:41]

CyberKnet:

not as funny as the first time i saw viddypow though.

[21:06:44]

CyberKnet:

now that was funny.

[21:07:03]

sphery:

wagnerrp: so did someone actually mention the release notes to him before he disappeared?

[21:07:16]

wagnerrp:

nope

[21:07:17]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Not that I see.

[21:07:23]

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[21:07:25]

CyberKnet:

can't have googled too hard

[21:07:28]

RDV_Linux:

MythBork: You can use Miro Bridge to get trailers downloaded but they are random titles from the source Web site (e.g. Timo's HD Trailers). They are not specific to your movie collection.

[21:07:35]

sphery:

he's definitely got the "not getting dragged into a time-wasting conversation on IRC" thing down to a science, though

[21:07:54]

CyberKnet:

What is IRC if not a time-wasting conversation???

[21:08:00]

sphery:

yeah

[21:08:16]

wagnerrp:

RDV_Linux: there is no restriction on any of those files?

[21:08:22]

CyberKnet:

I've spent fifteen years of my life wasting time in IRC conversation...

[21:08:27]

tbone:

<wagnerrp> however its damn hard to put machines in lock step across standard ethernet.. Hehe thats why its the perect job for the myth developers, they are good at this sort of thing.

[21:08:44]

wagnerrp:

not like the apple trailers where youre technically not supposed to download them and keep them indefinately?

[21:10:03]

** wagnerrp hides some dozen GB of movs **

[21:10:27]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: The TOS would be per the web site that posted them. Timo's and HD Trailers are the two major sites. Using MiroBridge and Miro they expire automatically after a few days.

[21:11:06]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: Just like any other downloaded legal Miro video.

[21:12:42]

CyberKnet:

bbi15m, rebooting this old XP laptop

[21:12:56]

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[21:18:11]

Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, yeah, chanid == -1, starttime doesn't matter.

[21:18:37]

wagnerrp:

'wagnerrp'

[21:18:38]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: ^^ :)

[21:18:42]

wagnerrp:

thanks

[21:19:10]

wagnerrp:

you mentioned it a while ago, but i couldnt quite remember what

[21:19:16]

wagnerrp:

and had no idea what day to search through

[21:19:34]

sphery:

wow... nice load avg (#mythtv mention)

[21:20:05]

Dagmar:

My boss is no fun

[21:20:19]

iamlindoro:

No server mounted cannons?

[21:20:42]

Dagmar:

We're doing a disaster recovery drill here this evening, the scenario being "irradiation of the data center by alien agencies" and I'm not allowed to get up on the roof with a bullhorn

[21:20:59]

wagnerrp:

something to put SD funds to work doing? backup servers for connected projects around release time?

[21:21:17]

Dagmar:

"PEOPLE OF EARTH! BOW AND KNEEL BEFORE OUR MIGHTY WEAPONRY!"

[21:21:29]

wagnerrp:

WTF are you going to get irradiated from?

[21:21:38]

Dagmar:

It's just a drill

[21:21:44]

wagnerrp:

but why?

[21:21:56]

sphery:

halloween party?

[21:22:03]

sphery:

geek-style?

[21:22:15]

Dagmar:

To be honest...

[21:22:42]

Dagmar:

We've picked a ludicrous scenario because apparently if you don't pick a ludicrous scenario, some asshole might confuse it for the real thing and blame us for creating a hoax

[21:22:44]

wagnerrp:

i mean what could be the reason for large rad source in a data center

[21:23:09]

wagnerrp:

i think if youre under attack by hostile forces, all bets are off

[21:23:18]

AndrewNC_:

RIAA detected mp3 files on the servers

[21:23:27]

AndrewNC_:

launched their tactical nukes

[21:23:38]

Dagmar:

Yeah I can see them contracting the merchant marines for that

[21:23:54]

wagnerrp:

AndrewNC: its the only way to be sure

[21:26:18]

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[21:28:16]

brockp:

so comcast just pulled the switch on many basic cable channels to digital, the "not yet ready for digital enhancements", so I am looking for a recomendation on a QAM tuner,

[21:28:16]

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[21:31:32]

brockp:

I was thinking HDhomeRun, for teh two tuners, and appears to be working fine with myth, i know I can't do encrypted channels with that, anything else I should know? Or other products I should look at ?

[21:31:32]

AndrewNC_:

interesting, 4850e drops system power draw by 10–15watts when cpuspeed is enabled and drops to 1ghz

[21:31:32]

AndrewNC_:

hvr2250 has two digital tuners

[21:31:32]

wagnerrp:

hvr-1250 or 2250, HDHR, 800i, kworld (110 and 115 only), pchdtv (but theyre a bit pricey)

[21:31:32]

wagnerrp:

in your case, look at scte65scan

[21:31:32]

AndrewNC_:

hah, stopping mfe drops power by 9watts

[21:31:32]

decke:

wagnerrp: i get already quite far with that patch... curiously that also seems to fix that DVDReadBuffer.cpp problem

[21:31:32]

decke:

http://bsdpaste.bsdgroup.de/7189

[21:31:36]

brockp:

strange looks like the wiki is not accessable from my machine,

[21:31:36]

AndrewNC_:

I think lirc script to start/stop mfe is in order

[21:31:47]

wagnerrp:

brockp: more likely the site is just hosed

[21:31:55]

AndrewNC_:

that's $11 a year

[21:32:01]

wagnerrp:

seems theres some ridiculously high server load currently

[21:32:26]

wagnerrp:

i cant get to the wiki either

[21:32:41]

brockp:

ok, not just my network, good to know

[21:36:39]

wagnerrp:

something to do with the mythbuntu 9.10 rc maybe?

[21:36:51]

wagnerrp:

a flood of mythbuntu users hammering the servers?

[21:38:01]

Dagmar:

Why would they be looking at a site full of documentation?

[21:38:05]

sid3windr:

haha

[21:38:09]

sid3windr:

who reads manuals anyway!

[21:38:21]

Dagmar:

Definitely not MythBuntu users

[21:38:24]

wagnerrp:

theres a link to the release notes

[21:38:27]

sid3windr:

:)

[21:38:28]

wagnerrp:

on the wiki

[21:38:34]

Dagmar:

They bitch when you tell them to ask Ubuntu-specific questions in the right channel

[21:38:42]

wagnerrp:

am i giving them too much credit?

[21:38:57]

sid3windr:

the current window is always the right window, Dagmar

[21:39:07]

sid3windr:

:>

[21:39:08]

wagnerrp:

i mean the mythbuntu RC announcement links to the release notes on the myth wiki

[21:41:06]

brockp:

nothing is broadcast in 1080p right? So when I look at these tuners and they all say upto 1080i that is all I need right? 1080p is only hardmedia?

[21:41:24]

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[21:42:28]

AndyCap:

brockp: the tuner doesn't really care though.

[21:42:30]

wagnerrp:

in the US, over unencrypted channels, correct

[21:42:58]

brockp:

thx

[21:43:01]

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[21:43:33]

wagnerrp:

but as AndyCap mentioned, they say 1080i because thats the limit of what people use

[21:43:33]

wagnerrp:

the cards could do 1080p just fine, and ATSC even supports the use of 1080p

[21:44:34]

wagnerrp:

its just that no one uses it due to bandwidth considerations

[21:45:02]

wagnerrp:

now something like the HDPVR actually is limited to 1080i

[21:45:20]

brockp:

hmmm, the hvr-2250 does hardware mpeg-2 of analog also, which most channels still are, can you tune both on each tuner?

[21:45:34]

wagnerrp:

the 2250 is a dual hybrid tuner

[21:45:45]

wagnerrp:

meaning each of those tuners can either do digital or analog independently

[21:45:54]

wagnerrp:

however the linux drivers for that card do not support analog

[21:45:58]

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[21:46:36]

sphery:

but 1080p24 would actually take fewer bits to get the same quality (ignoring temporal resolution) as 1080i60

[21:46:36]

brockp:

ok so I would still need my pvr-250 for the analog channels,

[21:46:42]

wagnerrp:

sphery: have you ever see a broadcast not at 60hz?

[21:46:45]

brockp:

never done multi tuners, I feel looking at docs that myth 'knows' what channels each tuner can get?

[21:46:46]

sphery:

I really wish that more networks would broadcast 24fps material at 24fps

[21:46:47]

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[21:47:09]

AndyCap:

how widespread is support for 24fps in the receivers.

[21:47:10]

wagnerrp:

i would love if all the sitcoms were broadcast at 1080p24, instead of TCd 1080i60

[21:47:13]

sphery:

wagnerrp: no, I'm not saying that networks use it--just saying that they /could/ use it

[21:47:34]

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[21:48:58]

** AndyCap wishes some genetic mutation would kill off all the 24fps freaks so the world could move on at a decent framerate without nostalgic feelings **

[21:50:30]

AndrewNC_:

does the atsc spec include 24fps?

[21:51:42]

wagnerrp:

AndyCap: except nearly all pre-recorded 1080i content is really 24fps content

[21:51:51]

AndrewNC_:

wikipedia says yes

[21:51:54]

devinheitmueller:

AndrewNC_: yes, it does.

[21:52:23]

AndrewNC_:

devinheitmueller: got the card, thx! Of course, haven't opened the box yet, could be cat turds inside...

[21:52:33]

devinheitmueller:

Wikipedia is nice. Even points you to A/53 Part 4.

[21:52:44]

devinheitmueller:

AndrewNC_: great.

[21:52:44]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: yes. I just wish people would start shooting movies etc in something more than 24 fps

[21:53:03]

devinheitmueller:

Everybody hear that – Andrew got his card. He didn't get screwed by some random person on #irc.

[21:53:46]

** AndyCap heard cat turds. **

[21:54:00]

AndyCap:

:P

[21:54:18]

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[21:55:51]

AndrewNC_:

if it were RMS I would have declined :P

[21:55:51]

AndrewNC_:

not because I wouldn't get it, but because of the smell

[21:55:51]

AndrewNC_:

hippie is like tobaco smoke, can't get it out

[21:56:41]

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[21:57:01]

devinheitmueller:

AndrewNC_: you have no way to know for sure I'm not a hippie.

[21:57:35]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: that's easy

[21:57:39]

AndrewNC_:

jpg on your website, if you are a hippie you are < lvl 3

[21:57:48]

AndrewNC_:

RMS> lvl 10

[21:57:53]

mchou:

by definition, if you live in NYC, you cant be a hippie

[21:57:55]

devinheitmueller:

Crap. Yeah, I sometimes forget about that.

[21:58:34]

AndrewNC_:

and you would have traded the card for a song

[21:58:43]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: you might be a rastafarian though :)

[21:58:45]

joe2371:

I thought RMS had the hippy kicked out of him by ninjas.

[21:59:36]

devinheitmueller:

mchou: I'm not a rastafarian, but have at times considered becoming a pastafarian.

[21:59:55]

AndrewNC_:

is that a FSM based religion?

[22:00:01]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: living on the cheap in NYC? :)

[22:00:01]

devinheitmueller:

yup

[22:00:15]

joe2371:

It is _the_ FSM religion.

[22:00:20]

devinheitmueller:

Well, with the rents here, I don't have much choice to live on the cheap.

[22:00:31]

devinheitmueller:

s/choice to/choice but to/

[22:00:52]

mchou:

devinheitmueller: since wall st. imploded, I heard rents went down

[22:00:52]

devinheitmueller:

I eat *alot* of peanut butter and jelly.

[22:01:30]

devinheitmueller:

The market in NYC flattened out, but hasn't really dropped (unlike just about everywhere else in the country)

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justinh:

heh. when I got my own place I lived on peanut butter & jam (as we call it) sandwiches too – but more out of sheer laziness than anything else

[22:21:07]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: laziness definitely plays a role. Apathy.

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[23:22:49]

oobe:

who wants this guys name http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1072902/

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[23:25:43]

justinh:

http://www.funnyordie.co.uk/videos/ef83afc272 . . . enting-party

[23:25:55]

justinh:

ffs this damn touchpad

[23:26:12]

Hiisty:

oobe: nice

[23:27:04]

justinh:

he spelled it wrong. to be properly funny his name needs an 'e' not an 'a'

[23:28:44]

oobe:

yeah lol guy cant even spell his own name

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[23:30:56]

justinh:

the windows 7 party parody vid is quite funny anyway

[23:34:00]

iamlindoro:

justinh, As I learned today, that's pretty much the definition of free software, right?

[23:34:16]

justinh:

seems so

[23:34:37]

iamlindoro:

justinh, and I don't have to comply with any license I disagree with, because right and wrong are whatever I think they are

[23:35:19]

justinh:

can I have that in writing to show my lawyer?

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[23:36:56]

wagnerrp:

noone mentioned TPB?

[23:37:15]

justinh:

thought it was effictively neutered now

[23:37:37]

wagnerrp:

thats what i meant, they mentioned torrentspy for getting shut down

[23:38:09]

justinh:

maybe they refuse to believe it ;)

[23:38:21]

justinh:

no! Santa Claus IS real!

[23:38:43]

wagnerrp:

thats about right... do it on someone else's internet

[23:39:00]

justinh:

aka "They can't take away all my free!"

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