Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, September 30th, 2009, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:13]

wagnerrp:

there may be a 0.22.1-fixes, but probably not

[00:00:26]

wagnerrp:

thats usually only done to correct for some necessary change that happens before the next release is ready

[00:00:46]

wagnerrp:

like the shift from zap2it to schedulesdirect

[00:01:00]

dserban:

right it's the way things seem to be done. 20.2 was an oddity then?

[00:01:02]

dserban:

ahhh

[00:01:24]

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[00:06:21]

vivaldi is now known as neogeo

[00:08:05]

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[00:16:12]

resno|home:

is there a way to resize a windowed window with myth?

[00:26:38]

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[00:35:24]

iamlindoro:

no, there is not

[00:39:52]

resno|home:

iamlindoro: k thanks. you all need to fix that now!!

[00:39:59]

resno|home:

i kid i kid

[00:42:01]

wagnerrp:

if that were ever likely to change, it would have been this upcoming revision

[00:42:17]

wagnerrp:

i doubt theres going to be another major UI rewrite in the next several years

[00:43:15]

dserban:

Would I be better off having myth record to an nfs share? To offload some of the i/o waits that seem to like to happen to me?

[00:43:54]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to what? CIFS?

[00:44:02]

dserban:

local disk

[00:44:17]

wagnerrp:

why ever would that be advantageous?

[00:45:13]

dserban:

I don't think it would, though it seems that my "lag" happens from writing to the HD. Figured some memory buffers and dumping to an nfs share might fool it into performing... nicer? :) (I know it's retarded, but I'm grasping at straws)

[00:45:39]

dashcloud:

when you choose minimal updates for a digital scan, does it just update the programid if it's changed, or does it do something else?

[00:46:12]

wagnerrp:

thats the intent

[00:46:20]

dashcloud:

okay- thanks

[00:47:03]

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[01:24:11]

sphery:

So, The Jay Leno Show is taking quite a bit of heat for being not funny/a waste of time in blogs/articles/reviews, but I really see almost no difference between it and The Tonight Show with Jay Leno.

[01:24:59]

sphery:

Seems people only liked the same old same old when it was on The Tonight Show.

[01:25:43]

sphery:

(actually, the only difference I've seen is the lack of captions on TJLS)

[01:36:29]

iamlindoro:

Leno sucks

[01:41:41]

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[02:02:01]

neogeo:

anything on the free channels that does not suck?

[02:07:40]

sphery:

free channels like over-the-air local network in the US?

[02:07:55]

sphery:

my favorite is Supernatural on the CW

[02:19:31]

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[02:22:58]

Bryan:

i cant find the feature, how do i modify the bitrate for the sound card?

[02:23:09]

Bryan is now known as resno

[02:23:31]

wagnerrp:

sound cards dont have bitrates

[02:23:49]

resno:

maybe it was for the tuner card then...

[02:24:09]

sphery:

audio sampling rate?

[02:24:12]

sphery:

or really bitrate

[02:24:17]

sphery:

bitrate is in recording profile

[02:24:23]

resno:

sphery: ah, audio smaping rate

[02:24:23]

sphery:

(assuming analog capture)

[02:24:27]

sphery:

sampling rate is in ALSA

[02:24:29]

resno:

sphery: yep thats it

[02:24:35]

iamlindoro:

Heh, mirobridge is awesome

[02:24:47]

iamlindoro:

Just sitting in PBB and watching lots of programming pop in :)

[02:24:48]

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[02:24:55]

sphery:

resno: I'd recommend: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Configuring_Digita . . . .2C_Properly

[02:25:09]

sphery:

or feel free to learn how ALSA conf works and make your own

[02:25:18]

resno:

sphery: i couldnt remember where it was...

[02:25:52]

resno:

using a framegrabber... boo... but the sound tone is all off. so i couldnt not figure where it was configured

[02:26:18]

sphery:

resno: but note that the default default device in all ALSA drivers is now set up to do automatic sample, rate, and format conversion

[02:26:37]

sphery:

resno: ah, for analog recording sampling rate, that's back in the recording profile, too

[02:26:43]

sphery:

ALSA sample rate conversion is playback only

[02:27:05]

sphery:

generally, you /always/ want your recording profile to use 48kHz sampling

[02:27:12]

sphery:

and since your sound card does, all will be good

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[02:31:52]

resno:

ive had it with my tuner card, where can i see the recommended tuner cards?

[02:32:00]

resno:

recommended list*

[02:32:18]

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[02:40:45]

cesman:

resno: State what type of tuner card you want (ATSC, DVB, etc.) and perhaps someone will chime in...

[02:42:53]

sphery:

resno: For NTSC the recommended list (at least my list) is the Hauppauge PVR-150, PVR-500, or HVR-1600.

[02:43:28]

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[02:43:51]

J-e-f-f-A:

++100 for sphery's recommendations... ;-)

[02:44:55]

sphery:

wow... lots of votes :)

[02:45:15]

iamlindoro:

J-e-f-f-A must be from Chicago

[02:45:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

;-)

[02:45:49]

iamlindoro:

J-e-f-f-A, here's some new shiny for you: http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/gallery.png

[02:46:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: ooh, nice! ;-)

[02:46:38]

iamlindoro:

:)

[02:47:31]

wagnerrp:

its like youre unwrapping a lolipop in front of a kid, and then putting it in your own mouth

[02:48:16]

elmojo:

agreed, it looks incredible

[02:48:47]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but its the wrong backdrop... :P

[02:49:21]

sphery:

wrong backdrop?

[02:49:45]

sphery:

because it's not as pretty/attractive as many of the ones he uses?

[02:53:50]

jst_home:

Is a sleeping frontend supposed to be able to re-connect on wakeup even if the backend had been restarted during the frontend's sleep?

[02:54:07]

wagnerrp:

yes

[02:54:23]

wagnerrp:

a sleeping backend is by definition no longer connected

[02:54:33]

wagnerrp:

tcp connections time out after a relatively short time

[02:54:49]

resno:

sphery: what are these cards considered: Hauppauge PVR-150, PVR-500, or HVR-1600?

[02:55:03]

jst_home:

ok, then I have a ticket to file as I see that failing consistently

[02:55:05]

resno:

what kind of cards are they? dvb, etc...

[02:55:36]

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[02:55:37]

wagnerrp:

<sphery> resno: For NTSC the recommended list ....

[02:55:38]

iamlindoro:

hardware encoding analog cards

[02:55:38]

resno:

i know they are dvb..

[02:55:44]

iamlindoro:

they are not DVB

[02:55:47]

resno:

they arent

[02:55:52]

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[02:55:53]

jst_home:

wagnerrp: would a backend socket log be of any use when reporting that, or just the frontend log?

[02:55:53]

resno:

sorry i cant type now

[02:55:59]

wagnerrp:

resno: read what i just said

[02:56:07]

resno:

wagnerrp: yea i got that...

[02:56:19]

wagnerrp:

NTSC, meaning standard definition analog in the US

[02:56:30]

resno:

wagnerrp: cool, just what i wanted.

[02:56:40]

wagnerrp:

jst_home: what exactly is failing?

[02:56:49]

resno:

im sick of playing with my framegrabber

[02:57:07]

resno:

does anyone want me to send it to them for burning?

[02:58:32]

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[02:59:01]

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[02:59:08]

sphery:

jst_home: if the database server is on the system that was shut down, it won't necessarily be able to reconnect

[02:59:42]

jst_home:

sphery: the db is on the same server, but the db was not shut down, the mythtv backend process was simply just restarted

[02:59:45]

sphery:

i.e. none of myth handles losing the DB gracefully

[02:59:58]

sphery:

ah, then in that case, it should reconnect

[03:00:07]

sphery:

but that's one of those seldom tested things

[03:00:42]

sphery:

resno: I'm sure iamlindoro will burn your framegrabber for you if you send it to him

[03:00:58]

wagnerrp:

he may even dance around the fire

[03:01:03]

resno:

ill snap it in half and send the other half along

[03:01:15]

jst_home:

wagnerrp: what I'm seeing is the frontend's working, it ends up sleeping at some point. During that sleep, I restart the backend and then once the frontend wakes up, it comes up, and I can navigate the menus, but once I hit watch recordings, it gets stuck for ~30 seconds...

[03:01:31]

jst_home:

wagnerrp: and then it gives me a dialog complaining that it can't connect to the backend

[03:01:39]

jst_home:

wagnerrp: and the list of recordings is empty

[03:01:52]

jst_home:

if I restart the frontend, life's good again

[03:02:03]

sphery:

jst_home: new-buntu?

[03:02:09]

sphery:

like 9.04 or 9.10?

[03:02:12]

wagnerrp:

well ive personally done that before, at least on trunk

[03:02:20]

jst_home:

sphery: the frontend is MiniMyth, recent trunk myth

[03:02:32]

sphery:

ah, ok, then not what I was thinking

[03:02:34]

jst_home:

sphery: the backend runs on a fedora 11 box

[03:02:46]

wagnerrp:

you didnt restart the backend to update it did you?

[03:03:17]

jst_home:

wagnerrp: in some cases I did, in other cases I did not. I'll verify that before filing a ticket.

[03:03:40]

wagnerrp:

if you update the backend, you really should update and restart the frontend as well

[03:04:18]

jst_home:

wagnerrp: this is something I've been seeing randomly over the last few weeks, at least, but last night when it happened again, I ran a test where I just restarted the same backend, and saw the problem again...

[03:04:25]

jst_home:

wagnerrp: but I'll double check that

[03:04:53]

jst_home:

wagnerrp: it was only last night that it occurred to me that the problem was related to backend restarts

[03:09:05]

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[03:18:48]

resno:

wheres the best place to get pvr 150 or 500 cards? ebay?

[03:19:56]

wagnerrp:

that and craigslist are about the only place to find them

[03:20:15]

wagnerrp:

aside from that, theres a couple of retailers that still have back stock of them

[03:20:21]

wagnerrp:

but they are no longer being produced

[03:21:19]

resno:

whats a fair price for them? 150 $20? 500 50–60?

[03:21:37]

wagnerrp:

50–60 seems a bit high

[03:21:46]

wagnerrp:

15–20 is probably fair for a 150

[03:22:40]

resno:

ok, thanks wagnerrp

[03:23:22]

wagnerrp:

ncixus.com has a couple 500s left retail, but i cant seem to find them

[03:23:41]

wagnerrp:

or you may be able to buy them from the canadian site, i dont know if they ship to the US though

[03:25:14]

resno:

at the prices, i see these listed, i should just get the hvr 1600

[03:25:24]

resno:

brand-new from newegg

[03:25:41]

wagnerrp:

$20 versus $90?

[03:26:17]

resno:

on ncixus.com the pvr 150 was like 80 something... ebay, there was one 150

[03:26:51]

resno:

but the pricing for the 150s is so irregular..

[03:27:06]

wagnerrp:

i see 21 auctions on ebay

[03:28:01]

elmojo:

anyone use the Alternate Player in mythvideo – when I press 'I' on a video I don't see the 'Play in Alternate Player' option?

[03:28:01]

elmojo:

it just has Play

[03:28:19]

resno:

true, but i was hoping to close on one tonight..

[03:28:34]

wagnerrp:

there are a couple buy-it-now for $20

[03:28:35]

mag0o:

esniper ftw

[03:28:37]

mag0o:

;)

[03:29:20]

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[03:29:41]

resno:

i wasnt paying attention to those. the best remote controller is the microsoft r6 right?

[03:30:29]

iamlindoro:

frickin comcast

[03:31:15]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: any thoughts as to why I don't get the "Play in Alternate Player" option in MythVideo?

[03:31:28]

Dagmar:

There is no best.

[03:31:41]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, have you set up and activated an alternate player?

[03:31:48]

Dagmar:

Go to K-Mart or whatever. Buy a remote you like that's programmable.

[03:31:48]

Dagmar:

Done.

[03:31:59]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: yes, I've got it enabled in the options, but when I press "i" all I see is Play

[03:32:30]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, how new/old is your trunk?

[03:32:49]

elmojo:

today :)

[03:33:00]

elmojo:

I've never got it to work

[03:34:01]

iamlindoro:

do you see "play" or "play..."

[03:34:23]

elmojo:

Just 'Play' in the list of options

[03:35:10]

elmojo:

btw, this is on a remote frontend

[03:37:02]

wagnerrp:

you set the option on that specific frontend, right?

[03:37:10]

elmojo:

yes

[03:37:24]

wagnerrp:

then local/remote shouldnt matter

[03:39:11]

elmojo:

tried on my local frontend too and it's not there

[03:39:32]

elmojo:

I'll see if I can add some debug to the code and find out what's going on

[03:39:34]

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[03:40:22]

[R]:

what does it mean when a 2x deinterlacer says "this deinterlacer requires the display to be capable of twice the framerate as the source video"

[03:40:36]

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[03:40:57]

Dagmar:

Plain english.

[03:41:22]

wagnerrp:

if you have a 60hz video, you need a 120hz tv

[03:42:02]

sphery:

if you have a 30 frames/sec video, you need a 60Hz refresh rate--not 59.94Hz

[03:42:27]

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[03:42:40]

[R]:

ok

[03:42:43]

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[03:42:48]

[R]:

and regular US television is 30 right?

[03:43:02]

iamlindoro:

SCREW COMCAST

[03:43:04]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, the code is working fine, your have a DB issue if I'm right

[03:43:04]

sphery:

ntsc?

[03:43:08]

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[03:43:13]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: Problems?

[03:43:14]

iamlindoro:

tested and working fine here on both remote and local frontends

[03:43:15]

sphery:

ntsc is 29.97

[03:43:23]

[R]:

and what about atsc?

[03:43:27]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: k, I'll look into it

[03:43:35]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, select from settings where value = mythvideo.EnableAlternatePlayer;

[03:43:40]

iamlindoro:

and pastebin please

[03:43:43]

sphery:

1080i is generally 30fps

[03:43:50]

Dagmar:

[r]; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_%28standards%29

[03:44:03]

[R]:

so if i'm running my display at 60 i should be able to do 2x? cuz i thought it gave me an error last time i tried... maybe i need to try again

[03:44:33]

sphery:

your display may be running at 59.94 or other similarly close, but no cigar rate

[03:45:29]

sphery:

so it would only work for 1080i @ 25fps or 29.97fps, but not 30fps

[03:46:04]

[R]:

hrm... i nkow i've seen what refresh the stupid thing thinks it is

[03:46:07]

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[03:46:09]

[R]:

but i can't find where it is

[03:46:12]

[R]:

oh well

[03:46:50]

[R]:

2009-09–19 16:43:31.548 Desktop video mode: 1920x1080 60.0024 Hz

[03:46:52]

[R]:

thats from the frontend log

[03:46:54]

[R]:

do i trust it?

[03:47:14]

Dagmar:

Clearly, it's got some nefarious plan in mind.

[03:47:19]

paperclip:

indeed..

[03:47:20]

Dagmar:

Find a lawyer.

[03:47:25]

paperclip:

log vs. log

[03:47:28]

[R]:

haha

[03:47:46]

wagnerrp:

as your lawyer, i suggest you burn the house, and flee into the woods

[03:48:12]

** paperclip makes a note not to hire wagnerrp **

[03:48:22]

Dagmar:

I've no idea what the 0.024 is about, but if X says your display is running at 60Hz, then your display is running at 60Hz.

[03:48:47]

wagnerrp:

paperclip: its the only way to be sure... assuming you dont have the ability to dust off and nuke the house from orbit

[03:49:12]

paperclip:

you watch too much tv :)

[03:49:23]

Dagmar:

That's a given.

[03:49:23]

wagnerrp:

tv? what tv?

[03:49:30]

Dagmar:

Welcome to #MythTV-users

[03:49:32]

wagnerrp:

thats not from TV

[03:49:38]

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[03:49:38]

paperclip:

m'kay

[03:49:56]

** paperclip goes back to watching tv **

[03:50:02]

[R]:

is there a way to get myth to tell you info about a recording... resolution, bitrate, stuff like that?

[03:50:35]

wagnerrp:

the PBB on some themes can show you

[03:50:59]

wagnerrp:

otherwise, its 'ffmpeg -i', 'mplayer -identify', or 'midentify'

[03:51:35]

[R]:

pbb?

[03:51:40]

wagnerrp:

playbackbox

[03:51:46]

wagnerrp:

the screen with all the recordings

[03:51:50]

[R]:

ah

[03:52:30]

paperclip:

i didn't realize that some themes showed that..

[03:52:57]

paperclip:

is that only in trunk?

[03:54:28]

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[03:56:21]

[R]:

should i be getting my hopes up? its been 7 minutes and i've only had 1 preemption

[03:57:52]

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[04:03:45]

Dagmar:

*DOOM*

[04:05:11]

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[04:06:53]

wagnerrp:

you doomed him from the channel

[04:07:12]

mag0o:

that wasnt very nice

[04:08:57]

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[04:09:07]

mag0o:

delayed doom?

[04:09:30]

wagnerrp:

never played a final fantasy? doom is always delayed some number of turns

[04:12:11]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: here's the mysql output -> http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1585425

[04:12:11]

mag0o:

hmm, i just noticed the 'Play Recording on Frontend:' in mythweb, that always been there, or is it new?

[04:12:11]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, DB looks OK, which makes me believe you have stale libraries

[04:12:11]

elmojo:

let me manually blast them away then

[04:12:11]

iamlindoro:

and make distclean too

[04:14:36]

elmojo:

k, rm -rf /usr/local/lib/*myth* /usr/local/lib/mythtv and make distclean – should that be sufficient?

[04:14:57]

elmojo:

and never had packages so nothing is /usr/lib

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[04:15:49]

iamlindoro:

should be, and just make sure to svn up

[04:15:57]

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[04:17:25]

gizmobay:

How do I update svn for trunk?

[04:17:25]

dserban_:

alright! I'm home and I'm armed with logs. Now, to find out why my recordings stick...

[04:17:34]

gizmobay:

svn update

[04:17:36]

gizmobay:

?

[04:17:40]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: Out of curiosity, do you have your backend recordings directories NFS mounted on your frontends? If so, are they using actimeo=0? Just wondering if you're seeing http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/397958#397958 , as it doesn't make any sense that we'd now have that problem when we didn't in 0.21-fixes and below.

[04:18:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, yeah, but I'm still on 0.21-fixes in production.

[04:18:10]

sphery:

ah, ok

[04:18:27]

sphery:

guess we'll find out more later, then

[04:19:46]

Captain_Murdoch:

I can see how going with actime=5 or would speed up a theme that has support for fanart in Watch Recordings since it would cache the dir entry list so it would be easier to check for the image each time you scroll down.

[04:19:55]

dserban_:

Ok, seems that they're autoexpiring ... quickly. Though when I go in to watch recordings... the titles are white, as soon as the focus is on one of them, they grey out.

[04:19:58]

Captain_Murdoch:

s/or would/or something/

[04:20:05]

Captain_Murdoch:

s/or something/or something would/ :)

[04:20:17]

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[04:20:32]

dserban_:

I also see ... RemoteFile::openSocket(control socket): Could not connect to server "" @ port -1 <-- is that a transcode job or mythcommflag?

[04:22:07]

dserban_:

Here's my mythbackend log: http://pastebin.ca/1585430

[04:23:04]

clever:

dserban_: transcodes cant stream the file

[04:23:14]

Dagmar:

I think it's terrorists.

[04:23:35]

dserban_:

clever, so... uhh... why would that be? :)

[04:23:47]

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[04:24:06]

clever:

dserban_: you cant write to files over the streaming protocol, so mythtranscode cant stream at all

[04:24:15]

Dagmar:

They're planning on using a nova bomb, whatever that is

[04:24:17]

clever:

so if that error is about file streaming, then its either commflag or frontend

[04:24:42]

wagnerrp:

transcodes do not use the remotefile interface

[04:24:54]

wagnerrp:

ah, clever mentioned that already

[04:24:59]

Dagmar:

I think yer backend has decided there's another backend that has a file it wants at

[04:25:10]

wagnerrp:

clever: actually, now you can (in trunk anyway)

[04:25:47]

mishehu:

ok, I am setting up a dvb card, and it's my first time dealing with a dvb card. the card is a hauppage hvr 2250 card. It's connected to an antenna, do I need to set anything under "DiSEqC" ?

[04:25:56]

wagnerrp:

no

[04:26:01]

clever:

wagnerrp: i was wondering about that

[04:26:03]

dserban_:

Dagmar, right. So, any suggestions on what I need to check?

[04:26:16]

Dagmar:

Your config

[04:26:20]

wagnerrp:

mythvideo has used it for some time for artwork grabs

[04:26:35]

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[04:28:01]

dserban_:

Dagmar, ok.

[04:28:05]

dserban_:

Anything specific?

[04:29:03]

dserban_:

As I'm not really understanding what the real problem is. Streaming to a remote location? If I watch livetv and press r (record), the show sticks around, it's only the ones that are auto recorded that never make it.

[04:29:32]

Dagmar:

A server name of "" with a port of -1 should be a hint

[04:32:27]

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[04:34:33]

mishehu:

oh I see that the diseqc is for moving dishes and stuff like that

[04:36:59]

Gumby:

I am trying to figure out something regarding the power search. When I do a query within mysql I get about 10–15 results. When I use that same query in mythweb power search I get no recordings schedules.

[04:37:19]

Gumby:

the search is "subtitle like '%canucks%' and category_type = 'sports'"

[04:37:34]

jst_home:

Gumby: chances are the hits you get in mysql are ones from the past

[04:37:35]

Gumby:

and reason why this wouldnt work?

[04:37:42]

** Gumby rechecks **

[04:38:06]

Gumby:

nope. 12 are in the future

[04:38:13]

jst_home:

Gumby: or they're on channels you don't receive any more, or that are no longer active

[04:40:49]

Gumby:

I checked the chanid from the query and used it in a query on the channel table and the channel exists

[04:41:17]

jst_home:

hmm, then I don't know why you'd see what you're seeing...

[04:41:43]

jst_home:

Gumby: do you have any channels hidden?

[04:41:57]

jst_home:

those would still be in the channel table

[04:41:59]

Gumby:

not to my knowledge

[04:42:26]

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[04:42:53]

Gumby:

the channels show in my listings

[04:43:09]

Gumby:

not sure if that is an indicator whether they are hidden or not

[04:43:11]

jst_home:

ok, then that's probably not it either

[04:43:23]

jst_home:

I think hidden channels are hidden from UI n' all

[04:43:40]

jst_home:

but I wouldn't bet money on that

[04:49:04]

Gumby:

hrm... quite odd.

[04:54:53]

dserban_:

hmm nothing in mythtv-setup that looks wrong as far as host/port info goes...

[04:54:58]

dserban_:

trying on the frontend

[05:08:25]

dserban_:

and there's nothing on the frontend that's not set...

[05:08:30]

dserban_:

what else can I check?

[05:12:03]

dserban_:

http://pastebin.ca/1585473

[05:12:12]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: here's the fix -> http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1585472

[05:12:20]

dserban_:

ok there's a section with curious complaints.... I don't understand wth

[05:12:34]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, Heh

[05:12:39]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, Thanks, good fix

[05:12:41]

elmojo:

:)

[05:12:50]

iamlindoro:

(and a silly typo from me)

[05:12:51]

elmojo:

I thought I was going crazy

[05:13:27]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, what's your real name? Will credit you on the commit

[05:13:32]

elmojo:

np, thanks for adding the feature

[05:15:08]

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[05:15:30]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, fix committed, thanks

[05:15:43]

elmojo:

cool

[05:16:21]

iamlindoro:

HAHA

[05:16:27]

iamlindoro:

And I totally typod the fix commit

[05:17:21]

iamlindoro:

oh well, second try was a charm :)

[05:19:03]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: I know you are busy but was wondering if you had any issues with playback of MKV with AVC/AC3 videos?

[05:19:32]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, I do not, no

[05:20:04]

elmojo:

k, would like to get the internal player working better for mine

[05:20:38]

elmojo:

pretty sure they worked flawlessly before the ffmpeg sync

[05:20:43]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, The key is probably going to be submitting samples, logs with -v playback, and a detailed idea of what the issue is

[05:20:50]

iamlindoro:

what issues are you seeing?

[05:21:49]

elmojo:

looks like the decoder sometimes gets video frames/timestamps out-of-order

[05:22:06]

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[05:22:39]

elmojo:

so I have the av-sync code kick in and drop frames, etc

[05:22:40]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, Are you using VDPAU?

[05:22:48]

elmojo:

maybe

[05:22:50]

elmojo:

;)

[05:22:55]

iamlindoro:

I suspect that you are

[05:23:03]

iamlindoro:

Try turning it off and I'll bet you things improve :)

[05:23:19]

iamlindoro:

a lot of MKV files are encoded with more reference frames than (our implementation of) VDPAU seems able to handle

[05:23:44]

elmojo:

unfortunately it won't improve things by using software decode

[05:23:49]

iamlindoro:

Even the Handbrake defaults seem to drive it nuts sometimes for a few of my ripped blu rays, but switching back to software decode solves it

[05:23:58]

elmojo:

because I have a traditional PCI card :)

[05:24:43]

elmojo:

so I'm stuck with VDPAU for HD content

[05:25:07]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, I know that the max reference frame issue is a known issue, and when it's fixed (if it's fixed) it'll likely be all at once

[05:26:18]

elmojo:

which component has the max ref frame issue, driver, ffmpeg or mythtv?

[05:26:47]

iamlindoro:

probably some combination of them all

[05:27:05]

iamlindoro:

I think there's probably some way to minimize it, but I can't say for sure whether it's possible to solve it compeltely

[05:27:26]

elmojo:

3 Ref Frames

[05:27:34]

elmojo:

plays fine with xine-vdpau

[05:27:55]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, If you're that concerned, I'd attach logs w/ -v playback and samples to a ticket

[05:27:56]

elmojo:

need to try latest mplayer since it relies on ffmpeg

[05:28:10]

dserban_:

Hmm so no clue. Post to the list? ... I see a bunch of people asking, and no real resolution that google can find. What else can I try?

[05:29:06]

elmojo:

iamlindoro, I'll dig some more on it before I log a ticket

[05:29:24]

elmojo:

would rather post a patch than a defect ;)

[05:29:31]

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[05:31:01]

iamlindoro:

Always happy to get 'em :)

[05:31:24]

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[05:31:37]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: I still don't see how it's specifically VDPAU related

[05:32:17]

elmojo:

the timestamps look like they are getting out-of-order

[05:32:44]

iamlindoro:

That's a long standing VDPAU issue

[05:32:53]

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[05:32:53]

elmojo:

oh really

[05:32:55]

iamlindoro:

yep

[05:33:02]

elmojo:

any tickets?

[05:33:20]

iamlindoro:

nope, it's not the out of order timestamp thing isn't specific to myth

[05:34:08]

elmojo:

ok, then mplayer should also be problematic

[05:35:26]

elmojo:

odd thing is that it plays fine and then if I seek there's a chance that things go wacky

[05:36:21]

dserban_:

sphery, you were saying earlier to edit the xml files in ~/.mythtv to remove channels? I don't see any files ...

[05:37:38]

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[06:13:24]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: thanks for your help tonight

[06:14:02]

elmojo:

I'll see if I can get to the bottom of this tomorrow

[06:14:22]

iamlindoro:

cool, good luck

[06:14:27]

iamlindoro:

I'm sure it would benefit us all

[06:18:52]

oobe:

iamlindoro, do you know how i can make an icon appear in the recordings menu next a recording while its still recording?

[06:19:24]

oobe:

i been looking thru xml's and the wiki

[06:19:35]

iamlindoro:

I don't even know how to read that question, let alone answer it :)

[06:20:03]

oobe:

i think its a statetype but i dont know

[06:20:27]

iamlindoro:

oobe, I don't even know what you're trying to ask

[06:20:48]

oobe:

hmm i just mean in my recordings section when somthing is recording it doesnt show that it is recording

[06:21:10]

oobe:

it appears as a normal when most other themes show the recording status

[06:21:20]

oobe:

i tried recstatus

[06:22:15]

iamlindoro:

state name recording

[06:22:24]

iamlindoro:

under statetype jobstate

[06:22:42]

Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, see -commits for PlaybackBox::testImageFiles caching.

[06:23:05]

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[06:23:30]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, just saw, awesome, thanks :)

[06:23:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

np.

[06:24:09]

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[06:24:54]

oobe:

do i need to define and area or will it default

[06:25:17]

iamlindoro:

oobe, any visible widget needs areas defined

[06:25:36]

iamlindoro:

oobe, It sort of seems like you are skipping to concepts of moderate difficulty without learning the absic concepts first

[06:25:58]

iamlindoro:

oobe, You probably ought to read the development guide from start to finish and go through the tutorial first before working on something like that

[06:26:04]

iamlindoro:

it would make both our lives a lot easier :)

[06:27:08]

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[06:29:13]

oobe:

yes i am i am sort of cheating so far with much success but i have been reading too

[06:29:44]

iamlindoro:

oobe, OK, I really don't feel good about answering basic concept question that are there to be learned already-- I wrote all that so that I wouldn't have to

[06:30:09]

iamlindoro:

So it would be appreciated if you would go through that stuff first before asking questions

[06:31:05]

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[06:33:18]

oobe:

the pages i been reading are http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI_Theme_Developmen and http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Recordings-ui.xml do have other suggestions or is this what you suggest

[06:34:36]

iamlindoro:

First read the first page thoroughly, so that you understand everything start to finish

[06:34:42]

iamlindoro:

then do the theming mythnews tutorial

[06:34:44]

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[06:35:04]

iamlindoro:

when that is easy, then you should be ready to open up the reference pages for the individual screens and edit them as you please

[06:35:50]

oobe:

ok thank you

[06:39:14]

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[06:39:23]

Morder:

what file system type do you recommend for the recording partition?

[06:40:55]

oobe:

xfs

[06:40:56]

wagnerrp:

xfs, or jfs, or ext3 with the 'slow delete' mod

[06:41:11]

Morder:

xfs it is :)

[06:42:20]

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[06:42:43]

mzb:

does mythfrontend have any _direct_ effect on dpms? ... or is that all down to my settings?

[06:42:51]

wagnerrp:

understand that XFS is designed as a file system for robust workstations

[06:43:00]

wagnerrp:

it does not handle error well

[06:43:23]

[R]:

mzb: it turns it off when you are watching somethign

[06:43:37]

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[06:43:40]

mzb:

heh ... yes ... I've noticed ;)

[06:44:07]

[R]:

mzb: is that a bad thing?

[06:44:16]

mzb:

for livetv, yes

[06:44:18]

Morder:

oh thanks [r]: is it possible to setup mythtv to always record on one tuner card while always watching tv on the other?

[06:44:39]

mzb:

I've modified the code for the wii remote so that the LCD turns on when you pick up the wiimote (no button press necessary)

[06:44:39]

[R]:

mzb: you want the screen to blank while you are watching tv?

[06:44:44]

[R]:

Morder: huh?

[06:44:49]

mzb:

no I don't

[06:45:02]

[R]:

mzb: ok, you've lost me

[06:45:15]

mzb:

<[R]> mzb: it turns it off when you are watching somethign

[06:45:17]

mzb:

^^^

[06:45:29]

mgisbers is now known as mgisbers_away

[06:45:34]

mzb:

it's only supposed to turn off if idle in the menu

[06:45:41]

[R]:

it turns dpms off

[06:45:43]

[R]:

not the screen

[06:46:08]

mzb:

hmm ... so it's my fiddling that's turning the dpms back on

[06:46:30]

mzb:

I'd better add more "intelligence" to my method

[06:46:50]

mzb:

(or hack it further so that the PIR resets the timeout;))

[06:47:50]

mzb:

I'll recheck what happens manually

[06:56:02]

Dagmar:

DPMS is irritatingly obscure

[06:56:41]

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[06:57:08]

mzb:

hmm

[06:57:37]

mzb:

is there a *nice* way of determining what a frontend is doing from a script (and/or Python) ??

[06:57:58]

mzb:

ie: watching a recording vs sitting in a menu

[06:58:00]

wagnerrp:

what version of mythtv are you running?

[06:58:13]

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[06:58:41]

mzb:

trunk

[06:59:13]

wagnerrp:

the trunk python bindings have a FRONTEND class

[06:59:20]

mzb:

ah

[06:59:23]

mzb:

hmm

[06:59:28]

wagnerrp:

along with getFrontends() and getFrontend(host) functions

[06:59:34]

mzb:

any examples around that you know of?

[06:59:54]

wagnerrp:

examples of use?

[07:00:21]

wagnerrp:

try http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7189

[07:00:37]

wagnerrp:

there is currently a problem with the class though

[07:00:50]

wagnerrp:

it expect a certain logon response from the frontend

[07:00:57]

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[07:01:06]

wagnerrp:

and under certain conditions, it does not receive that, causing the class to fail

[07:01:14]

wagnerrp:

namely, this happens during playback

[07:01:21]

mzb:

lol

[07:01:36]

mzb:

ah well, thanks for your help. I'll have a play

[07:01:37]

wagnerrp:

however if you want, you can still control it manually with telnet

[07:01:44]

wagnerrp:

'telnet <host> 6546'

[07:01:45]

mzb:

no

[07:02:03]

wagnerrp:

you do have to enable the control socket, it is disabled by default

[07:02:12]

mzb:

the wii remote steals that, and barfs if anything else touches telnet

[07:02:30]

wagnerrp:

steals what?

[07:02:39]

mzb:

the telnet socket?

[07:02:53]

wagnerrp:

it connects through the frontend socket interface? thats somewhat crappy

[07:02:59]

Captain_Murdoch:

there's a multi-connect patch in trac but I didn't get a chance to test it before the feature freeze.

[07:03:30]

Comm_:

Hi All, I am trying to setup xmltv (tv_grab_uk_rt) but I cannot select it from the Video Source setup page. I have xmltv installed and Video Sources searches for xmltv applications. Anyone have any suggestions of where to start looking?

[07:03:32]

mzb:

yeah ... whole thing is dodgy ... but it's a cool method of control, and it *usually* works ;)

[07:03:38]

wagnerrp:

what Captain_Murdoch said, he wasnt paid to make it accept multiple connections... :P

[07:03:49]

Captain_Murdoch:

:)

[07:03:53]

mzb:

meh, dm

[07:04:15]

** mzb pays Captain_Murdoch kudos ;) **

[07:04:28]

Captain_Murdoch:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5831 is a trunk patch to add that capability, but I haven't tested it at all.

[07:05:42]

mzb:

hmm ... (fairly) recent observations tell me it didn't work ;)

[07:05:59]

mzb:

not to worry ... I'm not in a hurry

[07:08:11]

mzb:

wagnerrp, thanks for your link ... gives me some (additional) answers/ideas

[07:11:13]

wagnerrp:

i need to fix that issue in the bindings, and i may as well update for 22122 while im at it

[07:11:19]

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[07:11:28]

wagnerrp:

but for now... low (mouse) battery seems like a good reason to go to bed

[07:13:49]

mzb:

rats

[07:14:14]

mzb:

I keep getting "loungetv is not a valid frontend"

[07:14:21]

mzb:

(from a snippet of your code)

[07:16:03]

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[07:16:09]

mzb:

which is coming from myth.getFrontends()

[07:16:11]

mzb:

hmm

[07:16:16]

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[07:16:53]

mzb:

(and crashes the pywii;))

[07:22:33]

mzb:

because that method is *still* talking to the telnet socket ... oh dear :) ... lol

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[07:41:07]

jst_home:

can some here test a live tv thing for me?

[07:43:27]

justinh:

no livetv here :)

[07:43:36]

jst_home:

hmm

[07:43:39]

iamlindoro:

liev whatnow?

[07:44:01]

jst_home:

yeah, that thing you used to watch, remember? :)

[07:44:13]

iamlindoro:

naw, not following

[07:44:18]

jst_home:

heh

[07:44:37]

justinh:

oh yes, I remember those days. The time I must have wasted trawling through hundreds of channels trying to find something interesting to watch :-\

[07:44:48]

jst_home:

exactly!

[07:45:04]

justinh:

by the time I did it was often 10 minutes in, so gave up on it

[07:45:19]

jst_home:

so I think channel changing is broken when you just type a number and hit enter

[07:45:26]

jst_home:

that should change the channel, right?

[07:45:34]

justinh:

now I just sit with my trusty EPG & plan at least a week ahead

[07:45:46]

justinh:

jst_home: that depends on whether you have that enabled or not, IIRC

[07:45:57]

jst_home:

I see numbers appearing as I type, but enter does nothing other than make the numbers go away

[07:46:08]

jst_home:

justinh: I think I do have it enabled

[07:46:21]

justinh:

I think you don't, or it'd be working :P

[07:47:07]

justinh:

if you're using trunk, maybe the OSD theme you're using is borked. Saw one report of that already I think

[07:47:22]

jst_home:

oh, that could be...

[07:47:45]

jst_home:

justinh: do you know what the non-broken OSD theme is called?

[07:48:03]

justinh:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/399025

[07:48:19]

justinh:

which you should have already ****ing been aware of cos you USE TRUNK

[07:48:42]

jst_home:

well, true... :)

[07:48:50]

justinh:

from now on, anybody using trunk who isn't following the relevant mailing lists (i.e. -dev and -commits) gets set on fire

[07:49:09]

** iamlindoro cackles gleefully and flicks his Zippo **

[07:49:11]

jst_home:

I actually read them, just totally forgot about that post

[07:49:19]

jst_home:

hehe

[07:49:19]

justinh:

yeah yeah yeah. Whatever

[07:49:35]

justinh:

don your asbestos suit. Mmmm itchy

[07:50:00]

justinh:

anyway I personally doubt it's that now since you can see the numbers coming up

[07:50:51]

justinh:

and if you're talking about digital TV now, maybe myth isn't letting you change channel because it's busy on that multiplex/transponder

[07:50:52]

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[07:51:31]

justinh:

see I dunno what myth does in that situation cos I've never used livetv in anger

[07:51:34]

jst_home:

justinh: it's not busy, I can change channels if I bring up the program guide

[07:51:58]

justinh:

definitely could be that setting I'm thinking of then

[07:52:03]

jst_home:

justinh: and switching to the "default" OSD theme changed nothing

[07:53:33]

justinh:

even if I took a screenshot of the setting here it'd be no use to you cos I'm only using 0.21

[07:53:52]

jst_home:

roughly what screen is it on?

[07:54:08]

justinh:

I dunno but it's called something like "select changes channel"

[07:54:46]

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[07:54:53]

justinh:

I'd put money on it being in utils/setup > setup > tv settings > general .. or maybe playback

[07:55:32]

justinh:

the default certainly isn't enabling that feature IIRC

[07:56:01]

justinh:

last time I used livetv was when 0.21 was trunky

[07:56:18]

jst_home:

"Change channels immediately without select"

[07:56:24]

jst_home:

and it's enabled

[07:56:32]

justinh:

yeah without select

[07:56:33]

jst_home:

dunno if that's the default or not

[07:56:49]

justinh:

the help text should explain what it's for

[07:57:48]

jst_home:

checked or not, no channel changes in live tv

[07:58:23]

justinh:

oh well. time to start sifting through the EPG & plan ahead like grownups do :P

[07:58:48]

justinh:

care not about channels or start times, care only for *shows*

[07:59:08]

jst_home:

yeah... just trying to up the WAF a bit here, I personally don't care...

[07:59:34]

justinh:

if I take up my concept-wide theme work again I might do away with the channel info in 'watch recordings'

[07:59:47]

justinh:

and risk being accused of copying ubuntu's new theme :-\

[08:00:01]

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[08:00:59]

justinh:

jst_home: keeping the WAF up is probably why I removed the 'watch TV' menu option

[08:01:30]

jst_home:

justinh: yeah, I'm working toward that as well, but it might be a while...

[08:01:38]

justinh:

besides, it's *so* last century :)

[08:01:46]

jst_home:

totally

[08:02:35]

jst_home:

ok, different question...

[08:02:40]

justinh:

if anything, the odd time we watch something 'live' we end up wanting to fast foward, not pause or rewind :P

[08:02:49]

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[08:02:53]

jst_home:

yeah, I hear ya

[08:02:55]

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[08:03:22]

justinh:

that's how people end up with advertising jingles stuck in their head all day, making them psychotic

[08:03:24]

jst_home:

so in .21, seemed the default was for '<' and '>' to skip back/forward 30 seconds at a time

[08:03:37]

loki_666:

justinh, disabling cpu freq scaling didnt fix any of the issue i described yesterday

[08:03:40]

justinh:

we buy any car dot com indeed. I thought the crazy from was annoying

[08:03:54]

justinh:

loki_666: oh well. you'll need to supply log output then.

[08:03:59]

justinh:

s/from/frog

[08:04:15]

justinh:

in a pastebin!

[08:04:23]

jst_home:

in trunk builds I can't get thatto work for nothing, '<' and '>' always fast forward/rewind, no matter what I map them to it seems

[08:05:05]

justinh:

loki_666: and check your audio settings. don't enable 'aggressive audio buffering'. if it IS enabled, disable it

[08:05:17]

justinh:

jst_home: you mean left arrow & right arrow?

[08:05:29]

justinh:

those are the 30 sec skip buttons by default

[08:05:40]

justinh:

as in arrow keys, not > and <

[08:05:47]

loki_666:

well it is enabled because of vdpau, even if i disabled it, mythfrontend log enable it

[08:06:03]

justinh:

loki_666: it shouldn't be enabled. like ever in most cases

[08:06:13]

loki_666:

i could make some tests without vdpau

[08:06:14]

justinh:

vdpau or not

[08:06:27]

jst_home:

justinh: yes, you're absolutely correct.

[08:06:45]

justinh:

loki_666: and besides, vdpau won't be accelerating xvid playback unless you have one of those new 'pro' cards

[08:06:53]

jst_home:

it's been a while since I set up my remote control stuff

[08:06:53]

loki_666:

well mythfrontend log are clear something like "enabling extra buffer, rendering requries it"

[08:06:55]

justinh:

so that rules out your 9xxx card

[08:07:15]

justinh:

loki_666: let us be the judge of what is clear from the logs ;-)

[08:07:39]

justinh:

and for god's sakes use mythtv.pastebin.ca or something

[08:07:40]

loki_666:

justinh, i know it wont accelerate de decoding but it"s still used for rendering

[08:07:41]

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[08:07:58]

justinh:

loki_666: righto :)

[08:08:33]

justinh:

well I'm out. gotta go to work via a subcontractor. hope I'm back in time for the big switch later

[08:08:40]

jst_home:

ok, so I think minimyth is messing with my left and right arrow key mappings or something, since with a keyboard it seems I can make that work in trunk as well

[08:09:14]

justinh:

jst_home: I used to like minimyth. user requests have turned it into something I wasn't happy with

[08:09:21]

justinh:

anyhoo... have fun

[08:09:34]

jst_home:

I'm hacking it to my liking here

[08:09:45]

jst_home:

it's a *beast* to build

[08:11:41]

loki_666:

2009-08–01 20:42:44.865 NVP(2): Forcing decode extra audio option on (Video method requires it).

[08:12:23]

loki_666:

actually it's not took from my log, but that's what i have i mine

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[08:49:10]

loki_666:

i'm still having glitches (decompression artifacts) in my mpeg stream comming from my pvr-150

[08:49:31]

loki_666:

i tried mplayer /dev/video0, but it doesnt change

[08:50:04]

loki_666:

tried to play with pci timer latency, doesnt change btw my pvr and my sata are not on the same pci bus

[08:50:45]

loki_666:

no errors in dmesg

[09:15:25]

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[09:23:54]

stuarta:

so are all the UK users ready for the big retune this afternoon?

[09:25:10]

_ben:

heh

[09:25:31]

_ben:

i was messing around with the tuning stuff last night but mythfilldatabase kept segfaulting

[09:25:40]

_ben:

need to look at it later

[09:26:51]

** stuarta hits digitalspy for having *no* information **

[09:27:17]

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[09:28:40]

stuarta:

oh that's a nice bit of miss-information

[09:28:59]

** stuarta is reading an article about the copy protection proposed for freeview HD **

[09:29:08]

stuarta:

"Writing on the BBC Internet Blog, BBC head of distribution technology Graham Plumb stressed that "no existing Freeview boxes will be affected" by the scheme."

[09:29:34]

stuarta:

that's because no existing freeview boxes will *work*

[09:30:12]

stuarta:

everyone needs a new box since it'll be dvb-t2 / h264 / ac3

[09:30:24]

stuarta:

all existing boxes are only dvb-t

[09:37:53]

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[09:46:48]

gbee:

stuarta: what time? I was going to do it around lunch, but if it's happening earlier that would give me more time to fix breakages caused by scanning bugs

[09:48:45]

stuarta:

they keep saying 12 on bbc news

[09:50:23]

gbee:

k, haven't seen/heard/read the news at all today

[09:50:53]

stuarta:

tune in for half an hour, it's pretty much their top story

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[10:19:46]

justinh:

just heard that some areas have already gone

[10:20:21]

stuarta:

wouldn't surprise me

[10:20:38]

justinh:

as for the 'encryption' of 'HD' – don't think anybody should worry too much about it ;-)

[10:21:08]

stuarta:

because they are saying after 12pm, i'd guess that the work *has* to be done by then

[10:21:15]

justinh:

aye

[10:21:27]

stuarta:

anyway it's not encryption

[10:21:32]

stuarta:

it's "copy protection"

[10:21:57]

stuarta:

they can't encrypt the video and audio content as that is a condition on the licence

[10:22:03]

justinh:

basically an attempt to stop PCs using the streams

[10:22:25]

stuarta:

i think the bbc has done us a favour by suggesting what they have

[10:22:39]

stuarta:

they are being blackmailed by the content producers

[10:22:47]

justinh:

I've read a couple of interpretations. one said the information tables, the other leaned towards EPG data (?)

[10:22:59]

stuarta:

so they've said we'll "compress" the tables

[10:23:02]

justinh:

it's all a bit vague

[10:23:21]

stuarta:

well the freesat EPG is already huffman encoded

[10:23:34]

stuarta:

which is what they are proposing for the SI tables.

[10:23:39]

justinh:

won't be much to undo it either way. I mean if the projected hardware will cope, a PC would easily be able to deal with it

[10:23:49]

stuarta:

i did find the link to the actual letters

[10:24:08]

justinh:

yeah I read SI tables too. doing the EIT data would be pointless

[10:24:22]

justinh:

and won't stop anybody using the streams anyway ;-)

[10:24:33]

justinh:

but messing with the SI tables *would*

[10:24:58]

justinh:

wonder though, if 'cracking' the encoding of SI tables would be tantamount to a DMCA breach

[10:25:11]

justinh:

there be dragons

[10:25:42]

stuarta:

http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2009/09/bbc-looks . . . opy-content/

[10:25:54]

justinh:

it won't stop piracy anyway, there are already people pulling recordings off Sky machines & putting them online :-(

[10:28:24]

justinh:

re the big rescan today, there still aren't any details of what's changing & where :-\

[10:29:02]

justinh:

still got qam16 BBC mux here, so no change yet

[10:29:11]

justinh:

(uk-WinterHill)

[10:31:17]

stuarta:

i'd like to know what is going on too

[10:31:43]

stuarta:

are they moving to qam64 on all muxes?

[10:31:51]

justinh:

yeah. 8k too AFAIK

[10:32:10]

justinh:

the suggestion that old ondigital boxes will no longer work leads me to that conclusion

[10:32:18]

stuarta:

moving channels around to free up a mux so they can convert it to dvb-t2 & HD?

[10:32:21]

justinh:

qam64 has been said outright

[10:32:26]

justinh:

yup

[10:32:32]

stuarta:

makes sense

[10:32:40]

justinh:

because they're totally unwilling to use any old analogue spectrum for HD :(

[10:32:47]

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[10:33:09]

stuarta:

that's because the government can make a fortune flogging off the spectrum for new uses

[10:33:30]

justinh:

so bitrate reduction across the board, lower error correction too (presumably that also makes more room) and moving to qam64 on 8k cos it's more robust (and would thus support the reduction in error correction)

[10:33:40]

justinh:

stuarta: they THINK they can

[10:33:50]

stuarta:

3G again...

[10:34:05]

justinh:

the providers who bought into 3G are still paying for that mistake

[10:34:14]

justinh:

doubt anybody will go mad like that again

[10:34:19]

stuarta:

qam16 is more robust than qam64

[10:34:27]

stuarta:

which is why the old ondigital used it

[10:34:38]

justinh:

wha? not what they've been saying in the propaganda

[10:34:48]

stuarta:

think about it

[10:34:53]

stuarta:

qam16 = 16 possible values

[10:34:57]

justinh:

oh wait. qam64 on 8k is supposed to be better than qam16 on 2k

[10:35:00]

stuarta:

qam64 = 64 possible values

[10:35:08]

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[10:35:31]

justinh:

and old ondigital boxes (and some others) can only cope with 2k

[10:35:42]

stuarta:

qam64/8k gives you more bandwidth per channel than qam16/2k whilst taking up less space on the mux

[10:36:06]

justinh:

they're selling the change as 'better resistance to errors'

[10:36:26]

stuarta:

horse shit

[10:37:06]

justinh:

how much is 8Mhz of spectrum actually worth to them anyway?

[10:37:26]

stuarta:

that's a *lot* of space with modern technology

[10:37:56]

justinh:

oh shite. just scanned again & did a diff on the resulting files. lots has changed in a few minutes

[10:38:07]

stuarta:

sounds like you are mid change

[10:38:57]

justinh:

oh bollocks. just realised scan won't bloody work will it? different frequencies innit

[10:39:24]

justinh:

or does dvb-utils scan work with alternative frequencies in the NIT ?

[10:40:02]

stuarta:

i think it just finds them where they are

[10:40:18]

justinh:

still uses an existing transponder to scan from. that's my concern

[10:40:51]

justinh:

they should have AT LEAST published what the new frequencies will be

[10:41:07]

stuarta:

i don't expect them to change the frequencies

[10:42:44]

justinh:

got caught up in some of the hysteria I think ;)

[10:43:52]

simonckenyon:

see http://www.ukfree.tv/mapsofsignal.php for frequencies

[10:44:13]

justinh:

when did UKTV History become 'yesterday'? lol

[10:45:45]

justinh:

whoah they're gonna snaffle C36? who's gonna want to buy that?

[10:47:07]

simonckenyon:

As announced on 13 November 2008, that as part of a UKTV-wide rebrand, UKTV History was renamed Yesterday on 2 March 2009.[3] This followed UKTV's plans to rebrand UKTV Documentary to Eden and UKTV People to Blighty. (from wikipedia)

[10:47:38]

justinh:

heh. shows how much I pay attention to UKTV operations

[10:48:09]

justinh:

stuarta: on the plus side, we now need less tuners to record *everything* at once :P

[10:48:47]

justinh:

so the few conflicts I do actually get with 15 virtual tuners will be further minimised :)

[10:49:33]

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[10:50:01]

stuarta:

i'm still cross with uktv for changing from 24hr slot to a 12hr slot on freeview

[10:50:23]

stuarta:

watching a documentary after work was quite nice

[10:50:56]

stuarta:

now i have to have no job, or mythtv in order to watch things

[10:51:54]

justinh:

BBC1 mux is still going

[10:55:25]

justinh:

I seriously hope they've not done anything stupid which breaks stuff for us

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[10:59:35]

justinh:

11:59 and still no move for anything off the BBC mux. WTF

[11:02:31]

justinh:

oh wait they said 'lunchtime' innit. As vague as everything else in the propaganda

[11:02:55]

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[11:09:26]

justinh:

looks like they're still shuffling stuff around. Here was me thinking it'd be like flicking a switch

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[11:12:33]

Spida:

is there a way to choose the videocard for watching live-tv WHILE watching live-tv? I don't get all channels on all cards...

[11:13:24]

justinh:

might as well go & buy medinner. as much as I love watching terminal output scroll by...

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[11:39:02]

justinh:

ahh, there IS proper information on http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051590

[11:39:14]

justinh:

silly me believed the guff on digitalspy :(

[11:39:24]

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[11:46:13]

gbee:

anything happened yet?

[11:46:53]

gbee:

hoping they leave me plenty of time to sort out the inevitable problems before the evening when I start losing recordings

[11:48:49]

justinh:

sifting through the output of scan is erm.. tedious

[11:49:10]

justinh:

I need to know when they're done messing around so I can do the mythtv-setup dance

[11:50:11]

gbee:

iamlindoro: log output suggests we're re-grabbing banners etc that we already have – adding metadata for a new series, hit W on the first it grabs all the images, but on the second it's grabbing the banner again (might re-grab fanart/poster too but this series doesn't have either)

[11:51:30]

justinh:

gbee: looks like ITV4 has moved here as planned so maybe they're all done

[11:52:44]

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[11:53:18]

justinh:

diffing a conf file from a while back with one from a few mins ago, grepping on 'Five' doesn't show me anything

[11:53:28]

gbee:

justinh: ok thanks, I'll wait another 30 minutes and do it over lunch

[11:56:43]

justinh:

no change in mode nor in modulation. seems somebody somewhere was talking out of their arse & I repeated it

[11:59:30]

justinh:

yeah looks like the only net changes are as that uk.free.tv page says, and I've got em both at WinterHill

[12:00:17]

justinh:

& it looks for all the world like there are still 6 active muxes

[12:02:57]

justinh:

nah, all still as clear as mud. doing a diff of scan output a few mins apart is still producing reams of changes

[12:03:04]

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[12:07:50]

justinh:

mysqldump -u mythtv -pmythtv mythconverg channel dtv_multiplex > chansandmuxes300909.sql :)

[12:08:43]

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[12:10:57]

justinh:

grr. terminal isn't working in KDE anymore

[12:12:20]

justinh:

duh. I need Konsole cos 'terminal' is actually 'gnome-terminal'

[12:12:52]

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[12:13:23]

justinh:

wtf? mythtv-setup: cannot connect to X server :1006.0

[12:14:44]

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[12:15:20]

justinh:

time to delete all the channels & rescan

[12:15:55]

justinh:

think I might concoct a script to set the xmltvids automagically

[12:16:18]

justinh:

unless there's already one kicking around

[12:17:53]

stuarta:

i thought you'd done that about a year ago

[12:18:19]

justinh:

never got round to it

[12:20:22]

justinh:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Uk_xmltv#Script_to_do_this... looks promising but

[12:21:13]

justinh:

assumes channel callsigns (GRR hate it when UK folks use that field) are the same as xmltv names

[12:22:18]

gbee:

which channels moved? The uktv table is a little confusing

[12:23:08]

justinh:

ITV4 & FIVE apparently

[12:23:37]

justinh:

and still 6 muxes operational. like I said it's about as clear as mud

[12:24:05]

justinh:

what they should've done was outline exactly what was gonna happen in every area. not just issue a blanket statement

[12:24:39]

gbee:

yeah, that table tables about new muxes but to me it looks like the same muxes just renamed

[12:26:13]

gbee:

BBC parliament seems to disappear and V1+1 never existed if you believed UKTV

[12:27:50]

gbee:

what a mess they've made of this, I've not a clue what's really going on :/

[12:27:54]

justinh:

well that script isn't working

[12:29:39]

justinh:

time to revert to the time-honoured method. BAH

[12:30:40]

laga:

just wait a few hours till they have it completely sorted out? that should result in much less drama ;)

[12:30:46]

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[12:31:09]

justinh:

we'll still have to update our xmltvids ourselves :(

[12:33:46]

DjMadness:

i seam to have changed a wrong setting i think, i am suddonly unable to watch tv while recording, anyone know what i might need to do to fix this ? (theres nothing in logs, allready checked them)

[12:34:11]

justinh:

oh and by the looks of it, purge existing program data & redo our schedules. F F S

[12:34:42]

justinh:

definitely think I'll vote conservative if they still promise to sack OFCOM

[12:35:05]

justinh:

though who is to say that what they'll propose will be any better

[12:36:27]

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[12:36:59]

justinh:

might also need a bit of update channel set useonairguide=0 where xmltvid !="";

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[12:41:51]

justinh:

duh why don't I just use my old channel table for this

[12:42:46]

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[12:45:49]

gbee:

anyone know of a resource which says which channel numbers things have moved to? the new scanner has failed to parse the LCN :/

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[12:47:50]

knowledgejunkie:

gbee: justinh: checking my scan output (Sutton Coldfield): itv2+1, itv3, itv4 and FIVE have moved muxes, and Quest is a new channel. that is it afaikt. so that was 8 field updates in the db, and adding a new channel. took about a minute to update.

[12:48:14]

knowledgejunkie:

s/afaikt/afaict

[12:48:30]

justinh:

no need to scan at all?

[12:48:37]

knowledgejunkie:

not that i can see

[12:48:43]

knowledgejunkie:

i haven't rescanned since 2005

[12:48:43]

justinh:

I can easy put my old tables back

[12:48:48]

justinh:

heh

[12:48:59]

justinh:

not that anybody here encourages manual DB massaging ;)

[12:49:08]

knowledgejunkie:

exactly

[12:49:22]

justinh:

sod this then, I'll do the shuffle meself

[12:49:32]

justinh:

logical :) Time saving ++

[12:50:20]

justinh:

all I need do is update the Quest serviceid after swapping dtv_multiplex numbers on t'other channels

[12:50:35]

stuarta:

gbee: the LCN's will be in the output of mythtv-setup --verbose siparser,channel,channelscan

[12:51:38]

justinh:

that way it won't bugger up my scheduled recordings either :)

[12:51:52]

mag0o:

my db loves it when i give it a massage

[12:52:04]

stuarta:

get a room :-p

[12:52:11]

mag0o:

:)

[12:56:40]

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[13:00:05]

gbee:

stuarta: good to know, not that I really want to re-run the scan, I've just finished cleaning up after the first one

[13:00:58]

gbee:

wiped the 'visible' flag for around half the channels, even if they didn't move

[13:01:18]

stuarta:

that'll be the shopping channels then :)

[13:01:49]

gbee:

shopping/gambling/home/craft

[13:02:00]

mag0o:

thank goodness for r22126 – my wife is down to her last 3 fingers!

[13:02:11]

gbee:

and added about 10 more that I needed to deal with

[13:03:00]

gbee:

come on, someone must know where ITV4 now belongs?

[13:03:14]

justinh:

it swapped places with Five

[13:03:26]

justinh:

er FIVE I mean

[13:03:41]

justinh:

ffs now I'm confused again

[13:03:58]

justinh:

out of practise with mysql

[13:04:25]

** stuarta throws some mysql fairy dust over justinh **

[13:05:49]

justinh:

that extra coffee isn't helping

[13:06:11]

justinh:

damn your relational crap, mysql!

[13:06:24]

justinh:

just shove everything in one table damnit

[13:07:50]

justinh:

lemme get this straight.. if we delete channels it'll mess up scheduled recordings yes?

[13:08:19]

gbee:

not unless you've restricted those recordings to a channel

[13:08:28]

justinh:

I usually do

[13:08:51]

justinh:

saves recording loads of guff from +1 channels

[13:09:05]

laga:

yeah, relational databases suck. not.

[13:09:09]

gbee:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread . . . &page=10

[13:09:25]

stuarta:

i quite like the +1 channels. helps iron out scheduling conflicts

[13:09:42]

stuarta:

also they are often on different muxes at different qualities

[13:09:56]

stuarta:

ie. e4+1 used to be better quality than e4

[13:09:57]

gbee:

I'd sooner have +1 channels than shopping

[13:10:13]

justinh:

true

[13:10:18]

stuarta:

no idea post todays reshuffle malarky

[13:10:37]

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[13:10:45]

justinh:

but my wife is forever setting stuff to record at any time on any channel, so we end up with a drive full of ****ing benidorm

[13:10:48]

_ben:

justinh: how have you got on? or are you at work?

[13:10:54]

justinh:

both

[13:10:58]

justinh:

still confused

[13:11:16]

knowledgejunkie:

stuarta: it might be more noticeable post-switchover when muxes move to qam64 from qam16

[13:11:23]

justinh:

I'll try working out what's moved

[13:11:32]

gbee:

this is every bit as frustrating as I expected it to be, between channel scanner deficiencies and the mess they've made of this reshuffle :/

[13:11:37]

stuarta:

yeah, i'm wondering how much the quality will go down now

[13:11:59]

justinh:

looks like they've only reshuffled, not actually *cut* anything down yet

[13:12:14]

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[13:12:17]

justinh:

which despite what everybody said looks like it's gonna happen at switchover time & not before

[13:12:21]

justinh:

bastards

[13:12:53]

justinh:

so the 'making room for HD' was complete BS

[13:13:27]

gbee:

justinh: well moving BBC Four and Radio to Mux1 must have required some bitrate reductions

[13:13:43]

justinh:

what they meant was "pretty much inconsequential reshuffling & renumbering" to *prepare*

[13:14:14]

justinh:

screw it. delete everything, rescan & hope I can salvage the schedules

[13:14:23]

justinh:

I record a lot from radio so I need those to work properly

[13:14:55]

gbee:

justinh: I'm coming to the same conclusion, this is impossible

[13:15:23]

justinh:

they've caused a stink because some areas will lose ITV3 & ITV4

[13:15:41]

gbee:

not least because I can't actually find clear and valid information on what has actually changed, so I'm working in the dark

[13:15:49]

justinh:

when infact it'll affect a small amount of the population, most of us needn't even worry

[13:16:09]

hashbang:

gbee: dvbscan from dvb-tools isn't showing any of the radio/BBC4 moves on the Mendip xmitter

[13:16:29]

justinh:

as for the stuff about older hardware ceasing to work.. they've not changed the modulation type, so WTF is that about?

[13:16:46]

hashbang:

justinh: the older STB thing is for devices that couldn't cope with split NIT

[13:17:09]

stuarta:

correct

[13:17:11]

justinh:

where is all this info coming from anyway?

[13:17:13]

hashbang:

justinh: they'd carry on working with mplexes that weren't using split NITs but if you retune 'em, they fail completely

[13:17:31]

** hashbang has a Daewoo STB which is now trash. **

[13:17:51]

gbee:

how old?

[13:18:00]

hashbang:

gbee: less than 5 years

[13:18:01]

justinh:

I'm sick of this effing 'digital dividend'

[13:18:17]

stuarta:

they were good boxes too

[13:18:18]

justinh:

hashbang: presumably just needs a software update.. which will never come

[13:18:34]

hashbang:

justinh: exactly, since Setpal have gone bust

[13:18:44]

gbee:

there is no dividend, that money isn't going to be benefit you or I in the slightest

[13:18:58]

stuarta:

digital divide maybe

[13:19:18]

justinh:

all I ask is that next time the govt issue sachets of lubricant before they pull a stunt like this

[13:20:19]

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[13:20:24]

gbee:

I do think that Ofcom should be lined up against the wall, they continue to show just how inept they really are, unaccountable and overpaid too

[13:20:30]

android60:

http://www.kernellabs.com/blog/?p=788 , yay

[13:21:02]

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[13:25:06]

CyberKnet:

has the ivtv website been down long? Google cache is from Sep 22.

[13:25:11]

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[13:25:43]

justinh:

idea. I'll print out all my upcoming recordings & schedules :)

[13:26:03]

justinh:

and if any of my wife's shows end up not recorded I'll blame OFCOM

[13:26:04]

justinh:

:D

[13:28:15]

stuarta:

\o/

[13:29:21]

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[13:29:47]

justinh:

okees. stop mythbackend, do the deed again

[13:29:47]

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[13:30:53]

justinh:

only 33 channels of mine had xmltvids anyway

[13:32:17]

justinh:

added 12866 3. wth?

[13:32:17]

justinh:

adding 27072 6

[13:32:19]

justinh:

wha?

[13:33:22]

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[13:33:53]

justinh:

oh bum. think they were ITV1 & ITV 2

[13:34:41]

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[13:38:03]

mag0o:

not mythtv worthy or anything, but cool none-the-less – http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/28/38-zipit-w . . . s/#continued

[13:38:10]

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[13:39:07]

hashbang:

gbee: justinh: just FIVE, ITV3, ITV4, ITV, Rocks & Co and new 'News' callsign on 5/27712 here on Mendip

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[13:41:21]

stuarta:

i'm waiting till this evening for all the fun :)

[13:43:20]

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[13:43:57]

** hashbang suspects the fuss was only made because the channels affected (ITV, FIVE) are struggling commercial channels that are also mainstream choices for many viewers. If it weren't for that, I don't think there'd have been the fuss. If there hadn't been the fuss, then ITV/FIVE might well have blamed further deterioration in viewing figures on Ofcom. **

[13:44:52]

knowledgejunkie:

justinh: 12866 is what FIVE used to be, 27072 was ITV2+1

[13:45:24]

knowledgejunkie:

justinh: now they're empty placeholders

[13:50:41]

justinh:

they can keep their empty placeholders

[13:50:47]

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[13:50:52]

justinh:

aka shopping channels & MHEG junk

[13:51:17]

justinh:

can we club together & outbid the shopping channels for mux space? ;)

[13:51:30]

justinh:

rumour has it they don't pay much

[13:51:50]

paperclip:

I always thought it was some sort of profit sharing deal..

[13:52:08]

CyberKnet:

club together and start an a-la-carte, internet-delivered content distribution network.

[13:52:15]

justinh:

whatever it is, they don't deserve oxygen

[13:52:25]

justinh:

CyberKnet: no

[13:52:31]

justinh:

internet TV sucks

[13:52:48]

paperclip:

my dad actually bought some XM radio/mp3 player from them..

[13:52:50]

CyberKnet:

Well, if you have the megabucks for it I suppose roll out fiber and deliver it that way.

[13:53:07]

paperclip:

internet / fiber.. what's the difference?

[13:53:10]

resno|work:

justinh: internet tv sucks?

[13:53:18]

CyberKnet:

Whatever it takes, as long as I get a-la-carte

[13:53:30]

paperclip:

i think internet tv is the .. ahem.. wave of the future..

[13:53:38]

justinh:

course it's not

[13:54:01]

justinh:

content providers are still looking to lock in viewers as they see fit

[13:54:07]

justinh:

IPTV != internet TV

[13:54:22]

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[13:54:23]

paperclip:

i hate to say it.. but iTunes is the a-la-carte source you are talking about..

[13:54:37]

justinh:

so anything with big bucks behind it, aka what we traditionally term things worth watching.. will be locked in

[13:54:47]

CyberKnet:

paperclip: No, it's not. It's DRM-laden, and expensive.

[13:54:54]

paperclip:

is it?

[13:54:59]

justinh:

yup

[13:55:15]

paperclip:

i haven't actually purchased any television shows..

[13:55:24]

paperclip:

but i didn't realize they were locked down..

[13:55:26]

justinh:

you're enthusing about 'user generated sh.. I mean content'

[13:55:46]

paperclip:

i like several shows on revision 3

[13:55:59]

paperclip:

and i do think that there will be more..

[13:56:05]

justinh:

they don't amount to many weekly viewing hours though

[13:56:18]

paperclip:

4 or 5 now..

[13:56:36]

justinh:

big bucks crap like Heroes is awful enough, just think how bad a fan-made version would be :P

[13:56:38]

paperclip:

which is much more tv than i watched prior to building my mythbox

[13:57:07]

justinh:

not interested in these vodcasts where they have 'a look' at X Y or Z in next to no detail

[13:57:16]

paperclip:

oh yeah.. t would suck if people were impassioned to make content they liked..

[13:57:54]

justinh:

and my patience for people who run stuff like the mythtvcast is very very short

[13:58:17]

paperclip:

which one is that?

[13:58:19]

justinh:

internet TV is like cable access, but with less technical quality & more loons

[13:58:26]

paperclip:

the guy's in Ohio?

[13:58:48]

paperclip:

have you seen fox news lately?

[13:59:17]

justinh:

thankfully no, but we get fed snips of their animals every once in a while to amuse us

[13:59:38]

paperclip:

it's pretty unbelievable..

[13:59:52]

oobe:

when i do a lossless transcode in trunk it stays stuck at generating keyframe index leaving a perfectly good edited *.tmp in my recordings directory when i transcode using a lossy profile it works fine only lossless seems to hang any ideas?

[14:00:01]

paperclip:

however.. i still think that there is a market for niche content..

[14:01:28]

justinh:

a tiny market sure

[14:02:13]

justinh:

you'll be telling us that watching shows on mobile phones is the 'next big thing' soon :P

[14:02:34]

justinh:

I'll get my coat. mine's the one with the rolled up fresnel lens in the pocket

[14:03:59]

paperclip:

i was out of town this weekend.. and i did listen to my home team's radio broadcast "live" on my phone.. was pretty handy..

[14:05:07]

justinh:

so itv2+1 has gone now?

[14:05:20]

paperclip:

pretty sure people were enjoying those crappy 7" dvd players on the plane home..

[14:05:23]

justinh:

scroll up

[14:05:46]

justinh:

aye. itv2+1 is gorn. Awww

[14:06:07]

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[14:08:37]

justinh:

paperclip: 7" DVD player screens are one thing.. phones are another ;-)

[14:09:24]

paperclip:

resolution is probably not much better than an iphone

[14:09:57]

justinh:

how many people have iphones though? not that many, in real terms

[14:10:04]

justinh:

they're still way too expensive

[14:10:13]

justinh:

so are the data plans

[14:10:28]

justinh:

internet use, fine. watching streaming video.. heh

[14:10:44]

CyberKnet:

iphone resolution is really pretty poor too

[14:10:59]

justinh:

anyway, new media evangelists can say all they want. it's all junk IMHO

[14:11:06]

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[14:11:23]

paperclip:

justinh: matches the content, eh?

[14:11:25]

justinh:

by the time broadcast TV is obsolete I'll be too old to care either way

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[14:16:48]

** paperclip thought broadcast TV was pretty much obsolete already **

[14:17:13]

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[14:17:36]

justinh:

nah

[14:17:43]

justinh:

if it was, none of us would need PVRs

[14:17:56]

justinh:

and it's still how 99% of the world gets its teevee

[14:18:18]

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[14:18:19]

paperclip:

i think most people use sat/cable

[14:18:32]

laga:

and that is not broadcast?

[14:18:37]

paperclip:

no

[14:18:39]

paperclip:

it's not

[14:18:41]

justinh:

yes it is

[14:18:42]

stuarta:

yes it is

[14:18:45]

knowledgejunkie:

err...

[14:18:51]

stuarta:

sat / cable are delivery systems

[14:19:02]

stuarta:

as is terrestrial

[14:19:09]

paperclip:

if it is.. then internet video is broadcast as well

[14:19:15]

laga:

that explains why it's DVNB-S. digital video not-broadcasting

[14:19:26]

stuarta:

no that's not broadcast

[14:19:36]

paperclip:

how is cable broadcast tv?

[14:19:45]

Lunar_Lamp:

I'm thinking of putting in a freesat-capable card to my mythtv setup. Are there any known issues with this? Also, is there any way of me verifying that the satellite on the side of my house actually works, without buying and trying to configure a freesat-capable tvcard?

[14:20:01]

stuarta:

sat / cable / terrestrial are since they are all sent out "broadcast" from the broadcaster

[14:20:03]

justinh:

Lunar_Lamp: a sat finder would be a start

[14:20:09]

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[14:20:28]

CyberKnet:

paperclip: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast

[14:20:28]

Lunar_Lamp:

justinh: I've never heard of a sat finder – while I can guess it's purpose, where can I get one?

[14:20:43]

paperclip:

CyberKnet: you are fast with the edits

[14:20:43]

stuarta:

same place you get the rest of the stuff

[14:20:46]

justinh:

Lunar_Lamp: google knows :)

[14:20:54]

CyberKnet:

paperclip: lol

[14:21:03]

knowledgejunkie:

justinh: re itv2+1 missing – do you have a new channel called ITV?

[14:21:10]

justinh:

knowledgejunkie: yeah

[14:21:21]

justinh:

deleted it already

[14:21:33]

knowledgejunkie:

justinh: isn't that itv2+1

[14:21:38]

paperclip:

oh.. so then.. according to CyberKnet internet is broadcasting..

[14:21:40]

justinh:

2009-09–30 15:20:34.553 FAILED: xmltv returned error code 3328

[14:21:47]

paperclip:

like I "dial" my cellphone..

[14:21:50]

justinh:

knowledgejunkie: god only knows what it is

[14:21:53]

paperclip:

sheesh..

[14:22:03]

paperclip:

welcome to #anachronism

[14:22:35]

CyberKnet:

paperclip: Broadcasting is the distribution of audio and/or video signals which transmit programs to an audience. Whatever the distribution medium. It could be tin cans with strings for all it matters :)

[14:22:46]

justinh:

anyway, I hear you hope that one day we'll all wear shiny silver suits & live on the moon, eating packed lunches of power pills but.. :-P

[14:22:54]

paperclip:

yeah.. i'm practicing my smoke signals..

[14:22:56]

stuarta:

string must be wet, or it doesn't work so well :-p

[14:23:07]

CyberKnet:

stuarta: noted :)

[14:23:30]

paperclip:

was in a museum with the Apollo 7 command module this weekend..

[14:23:41]

paperclip:

they had all sorts of odd cube food on display

[14:23:55]

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[14:25:16]

justinh:

oh holy crap

[14:25:23]

justinh:

EPG data is WELL ****ed up

[14:25:30]

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[14:25:39]

_ben:

:/

[14:25:40]

justinh:

Channel 4 says "BBC red button"

[14:25:53]

justinh:

presumably the chanids have been shaken up badly

[14:26:13]

justinh:

we have to rethink this somehow. updating every time freeview sneezes is unacceptable

[14:26:25]

_ben:

has there been much noise on the mailing list

[14:26:32]

_ben:

i should subscribe really

[14:26:34]

justinh:

yes, NOISE. no solutions

[14:26:58]

justinh:

lots of users *whining* about it, but not really anybody putting fwd ideas to solve the problem

[14:27:33]

resno|work:

what is the problem? sorry just noticing the chatter

[14:27:56]

justinh:

resno|work: mythtv not yet being able to handle lineup changes gracefully

[14:28:12]

justinh:

because a UK TV provider keeps updating the lineup every fscking 5 minutes

[14:28:43]

resno|work:

oh, i see. ive noticed that to be a problem with other pvrs as well.

[14:28:46]

justinh:

meaning that usually the 'best' way to deal with it is to delete all our channels & rescan

[14:29:15]

justinh:

unless you're versed in mysql-fu and know exactly what you're doing. which precludes a large amount of users

[14:30:35]

resno|work:

do you have to physcially rescan the channels or can the guide update it.

[14:30:47]

justinh:

the guide can't do anything

[14:31:39]

justinh:

part of the problem is that the record table uses 'chanid'.. which is now hardly an immutable entity

[14:32:26]

justinh:

so if chanid changes, which it invariably has to.. wah wah

[14:32:47]

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[14:32:55]

resno|work:

im trying to think logically, but i suppose, i dont fully understand how myth fully works

[14:33:20]

justinh:

chanid is a field in the channel table which users have no control over

[14:33:38]

resno|work:

i imagine their are people who are smarter then i here, and if they cant resolve, i imagine i wouldnt

[14:34:39]

justinh:

maybe a good solution would be to export the record table before a rescan, linked to channel names. then after a scan, bring em back in using the names again

[14:34:50]

Lunar_Lamp:

justinh: my reading about sat finders suggests that they require a receiver to work. Is that correct?

[14:35:01]

justinh:

Lunar_Lamp: not generally

[14:35:11]

justinh:

only ones I've seen can be battery powered

[14:35:38]

Lunar_Lamp:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=48667 <-- that's the one I've seen (PCworld sell it for half the price too).

[14:35:50]

Lunar_Lamp:

I'll keep looking for a non-reciever powered one though.

[14:35:52]

justinh:

wha? pc world sell sat finders?

[14:36:04]

stuarta:

and cheaper than someone else??!?!?!?!?!

[14:36:27]

Lunar_Lamp:

I know, i was shocked, but it's true.

[14:36:35]

Lunar_Lamp:

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/pcw_pa . . . ategory_oid= <-- evidence.

[14:36:43]

Lunar_Lamp:

9apologies for the insane URL)

[14:37:01]

justinh:

prolly won't work

[14:37:20]

justinh:

wow it did

[14:37:27]

J-e-f-f-A:

Lunar_Lamp: I have one of those and I'm not overly impressed by it... (the one you linke from Maplin)

[14:38:07]

Lunar_Lamp:

J-e-f-f-A: I pretty much want it to verify that the satellite works, as much as fine-tuning it's position.

[14:38:22]

Lunar_Lamp:

(I'm assuming that if it works it'll already be pointing in the right place as it was set up for Sky)

[14:38:43]

justinh:

when though?

[14:38:44]

J-e-f-f-A:

Lunar_Lamp: I borrorwed a friend's $400 sat finder, that displayed the sat that was being received, s/n ratio, etc... was much easier to use...

[14:38:47]

justinh:

analogue sky? ;-)

[14:39:16]

Lunar_Lamp:

justinh: well, it was cancelled in January, but I hadn't thought of that /o\

[14:39:35]

justinh:

Lunar_Lamp: that recent it'd have been digital, so pointing at the right place :)

[14:39:41]

** Lunar_Lamp glares at justinh, the spoiler of grand plans. **

[14:39:49]

J-e-f-f-A:

Lunar_Lamp: If you've already got the sat dish pointed to a sat, then the el-cheapo one helps you to fine-tune the dish though... It's just usless (imho) for a multi-lnb dish...

[14:40:22]

justinh:

anyway, if we delete channels why are chanids reused?

[14:40:23]

Lunar_Lamp:

Basically, i've never used the dish – it was there when I moved in. (nor have I ever used any satellite)

[14:41:53]

** J-e-f-f-A has been a Sat customer in the US for about 10 years now... But we have FAR fewer choices then you guys in the UK... :-( **

[14:42:02]

Lunar_Lamp:

*fewer* choices? There's basically 1 sat company in the UK, and some free sat channels as well.

[14:42:02]

DjMadness|Lap:

i seam to have changed a wrong setting i think, i am suddonly unable to watch tv while recording (the show thats getting recorded), anyone know what i might need to do to fix this ? (theres nothing in logs, allready checked them) and ive even resetted everything to default and setup everything again

[14:43:36]

Lunar_Lamp:

And that's *more* choice?!

[14:44:47]

J-e-f-f-A:

Lunar_Lamp: I though you guys had 'real' FTA?

[14:44:47]

justinh:

Lunar_Lamp: more channels

[14:44:47]

justinh:

that's all we get. more channels. not more choice

[14:44:47]

J-e-f-f-A:

oops... I guess I mis-understood... sorry...

[14:44:47]

justinh:

hmm this isn't as bad as I thought. schedules seem quite intact

[14:44:47]

justinh:

even ones where the chanid has changed. I don't get it

[14:44:47]

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[14:44:48]

J-e-f-f-A:

Lunar_Lamp: Ok, we have 2 sat companies in the US... But for 'free' digital, the only solution is over-the-air broadcasts. :-(

[14:44:48]

J-e-f-f-A:

SD uses the xmlid, right? so it shouldn't care about the assigned channelid...

[14:45:33]

justinh:

oof. there are four pages when I do select title, starttime from record where chanid !="";

[14:45:51]

justinh:

but I should then be able to fix those ones :)

[14:46:54]

knowledgejunkie:

justinh: channel rules use callsign, not chanid

[14:46:54]

justinh:

ruh? gadget show is on that list but it's in my 'upcoming recordings' list against the right channel

[14:47:11]

justinh:

so what uses chanid?

[14:47:14]

paperclip:

CyberKnet: look at my handiwork http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_telev . . . t_television

[14:47:21]

justinh:

single recordings?

[14:47:53]

justinh:

knowledgejunkie: no callsign column in 'record'

[14:48:24]

justinh:

I guess it's determined from chanid

[14:48:34]

CyberKnet:

paperclip?

[14:48:52]

paperclip:

broadcast "television"

[14:49:01]

paperclip:

over the air and stuff

[14:49:13]

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[14:50:12]

knowledgejunkie:

i always thought it used `station` to work out which other channels were equivalent for scheduling purposes. maybe it is that broken?

[14:50:15]

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[14:50:43]

justinh:

oops. didn't see that column

[14:51:14]

knowledgejunkie:

justinh: no problems running xmltv here – can you run the grabber from the console with --debug and your video source's config file

[14:51:31]

knowledgejunkie:

justinh: are you running the 0.5.56 release?

[14:51:45]

justinh:

knowledgejunkie: wrong user error ;)

[14:52:53]

justinh:

so hmm. I don't understand under which circumstances chanids having changed can bork recording schedules

[14:53:21]

justinh:

all my schedules are a mixture of single record, any time any channel, channel record & all seem to be ok

[14:54:49]

justinh:

I wonder, is the furore about lost scheduled recordings just mailing list FUD?

[14:55:38]

justinh:

sure, so old recordings, indexed by chanid might end up listed as recorded on the 'wrong' channel but hey.. as long as the file & metadata is still there

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[15:02:07]

resno|work:

ive seen many remote control recommended on the wiki, but which one is wef approved?

[15:02:21]

justinh:

wef?

[15:02:32]

resno|work:

i can never get it right LOL

[15:02:41]

resno|work:

approved for non-techy use...

[15:02:47]

wagnerrp:

did you ask that yesterday?

[15:02:52]

justinh:

wives never like remotes of any description

[15:02:59]

resno|work:

wagnerrp: yes and no

[15:03:06]

justinh:

they all have too many buttons, look ugly, are too big, too small...

[15:03:20]

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[15:03:32]

wagnerrp:

anyway, painfree setup with a bunch of buttons, the mceusb2 remotes usually work well

[15:03:51]

justinh:

don't buy a harmony remote & expect your mrs to be happy with it

[15:04:05]

wagnerrp:

or you can get a usbuirt2 and roll your own lircd.conf

[15:04:18]

wagnerrp:

or you can use the remote that comes with your new hauppauge PVR tuner

[15:04:19]

justinh:

though mine copes well with an 'ordinary' universal remote

[15:04:38]

simonckenyon:

i've been trying to get the sony bd remote to work for yonks – it looks like a nice one for myth (bluetooth)

[15:04:40]

resno|work:

wagnerrp: i see you remember our convos well

[15:04:56]

justinh:

simonckenyon: not a fan of separate remotes for stuff

[15:05:10]

resno|work:

simonckenyon: i saw that and was thinking the same thing, but the bluetooth sync seemed like it might be buggy

[15:05:28]

simonckenyon:

buggy is not quite the word for it

[15:05:29]

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[15:05:29]

justinh:

thought one of the regulars here had it working already

[15:05:36]

simonckenyon:

who?

[15:05:47]

justinh:

can't remember

[15:05:52]

wagnerrp:

i have a bunch of hauppauge remotes, but i ended up having to swap them for mceusb2s

[15:05:54]

justinh:

whoever made the mythtv wiki page fer it I think

[15:06:03]

simonckenyon:

ah well – will plow on with it

[15:06:10]

wagnerrp:

they dont work too well on remote frontends

[15:06:21]

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[15:06:25]

justinh:

I need to chuck out my harmony & go back to the old OFA remote

[15:06:29]

wagnerrp:

with the IR port being on the tuner card and all

[15:06:48]

resno|work:

i think its funny the most stable remote control are windows products

[15:07:09]

justinh:

not *windows* products

[15:07:15]

justinh:

BS Badged maybe

[15:07:17]

laga:

windows no makey?

[15:07:19]

justinh:

*MS.. oops

[15:07:51]

justinh:

MS/BS.. same diff eh

[15:07:53]

resno|work:

haha no windows i meant ms

[15:08:44]

J-e-f-f-A:

simonckenyon: I don't know about the Sony BD remote, but mzb has a Wii remote working in Myth... ;-)

[15:08:52]

justinh:

so is the 'upcoming recordings' list in mythtv just a result of queries on 'record' and 'channel' ?

[15:08:52]

resno|work:

i keep wanting to ask, do you all ever get away from irc, but i am reminded many of you are on different time zones

[15:09:17]

justinh:

resno|work: I'm at work, ssh'd in to home :)

[15:09:29]

laga:

resno|work: both :)

[15:09:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

simonckenyon: And I thought i saw a wiki page or maybe just a google hit on making the Sony BT DVD remote work in Linux...

[15:09:54]

resno|work:

J-e-f-f-A: there is a wiki page on it

[15:09:57]

justinh:

was it directhex who did it or somebody more current?

[15:10:06]

J-e-f-f-A:

simonckenyon: And once it works in Linux (with lirc) – it would work fine for MythTV. ;-)

[15:10:06]

simonckenyon:

the problem with the bd remote is that it does not play well with kde and gentoo (which are what i use) – it works fine on gnome and ubuntu

[15:10:19]

justinh:

ruh?

[15:10:26]

simonckenyon:

because?

[15:10:45]

simonckenyon:

it has a nice set of key – just perfect for myth IMHO

[15:11:00]

J-e-f-f-A:

simonckenyon: strange... I wouldn't have that problem as I run Fedora... ;-)

[15:11:30]

justinh:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/PS3_Remote and http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Sony_PS3_BD_Remote

[15:11:30]

simonckenyon:

and all the bluez developers only develop for fedora – they don't care about any other distro

[15:11:45]

wagnerrp:

resno|work: the 'MCE' remote is actually made by phillips, and OEMd by a couple other companies

[15:13:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: search fleabay for "Microsoft RC6" and/or "MCE RC6 Remote", etc... "RC6" is a key for eliminating most of the 'junk' in the search...

[15:14:06]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: There's even one on newegg complete with receiver for about $25 IIRC right now (not MS brand, but another 'oem')

[15:14:12]

justinh:

anyhoo.. time to head home. I'll fire up livetv to test my new channel lineup later no doubt

[15:14:23]

resno|work:

J-e-f-f-A: thats what i was looking for. rc6! there are so many junk remotes and as i read the junk ones dont play nice

[15:14:57]

wagnerrp:

anykey or something (ive got two of them)

[15:14:59]

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[15:15:17]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: yeah, unfortunately many 'crap' remotes call themselves "MCE" remotes... :-(

[15:16:15]

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[15:16:21]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: I don't have this one, but I've heard reports it works great with the 'standard' MCEUSB2 lirc configuration: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It . . . pk=MCE%20RC6

[15:16:28]

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[15:17:59]

resno|work:

J-e-f-f-A: thanks, if i dont win my ebay bid on the one that has a remote, ill pick this one up

[15:18:14]

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[15:20:23]

wagnerrp:

that receiver looks small enough to be annoying

[15:20:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: I have 2 or 3 of this model: http://i.ebayimg.com/07/!BTkE!P!!Wk~$(KGrHgoH . . . bbQ~~_12.JPG (no red/green/blue/yellow buttons), and 2 or 3 HP-branded MCE remotes.

[15:21:41]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: Here's a pic of the HP ones: http://www.compuvest.us/Ebay_Images/405004473-02.jpeg

[15:21:43]

wagnerrp:

ive got a pair of this one... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880121002

[15:22:11]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: I like the MS ones a bit better because most of the buttons are backlit, wheras the HP one has more buttons, but nothing is backlit...

[15:22:51]

resno|work:

is it safe to assume most ms remotes are backlit?

[15:23:22]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, i dont know if mine are or not (dont use them)

[15:23:43]

resno|work:

for me/us, its been nice to have in dark situations

[15:23:47]

wagnerrp:

i just bought it for the receiver

[15:23:56]

resno|work:

oh hah

[15:24:37]

paperclip:

i need a receiver.. that Rosewill dongle looks good to me..

[15:24:59]

paperclip:

wagnerrp: the kit you have includes a "blaster" as well, eh?

[15:25:13]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: AFAIK, all MS branded MCE remotes are backlit – except for the # keys...

[15:25:26]

wagnerrp:

paperclip: two ports for blasters, but it only comes with one

[15:25:27]

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[15:25:44]

paperclip:

may be nice to have

[15:27:20]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: Here's a 'working' link of the MCE remote I have – notice the # keys are grey instead of translucent – they're not backlit: http://tinyurl.com/ydphqvf

[15:27:51]

resno|work:

J-e-f-f-A: does that work just as well for you?

[15:28:29]

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[15:29:09]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: It's a little annoying, but since I don't do 'Live TV', it's not that bad. Just makes jumping around in the channel guide in the dark by channel number harder... ;-) At least all the 'useful' buttons are backlit... ;-)

[15:29:53]

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[15:30:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Is the blaster on your setup functional in Linux yet?

[15:30:09]

resno|work:

i think my internet might drop in a bit. they are doing work on it here

[15:30:30]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A: as far as i know, havent actually tested it

[15:31:40]

resno|work:

thanks alot J-e-f-f-A and wagnerrp for all you guys help. trying to get up to speed

[15:31:59]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: NP. ;-)

[15:32:17]

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[15:32:52]

resno|work:

we cancelled the cable dvr, and now she cant live without having her shows recorded

[15:33:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: Yeah, I had a Dish PVR before they charged monthly fees... I still have two PVR receivers (grandfathered from the pre-PVR fee days), but don't use them as PVRs, just tuners for MythTV... ;-)

[15:34:41]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: The MythTV interface is very similar to the Dish PVR interface we were used to on the DishPlayer 7200 receivers we had... So it was an easy migration for my wife.

[15:34:46]

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[15:35:28]

resno|work:

J-e-f-f-A: thats good. there are few more bells and whistles with myth. but the web interface is a big plus

[15:38:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: Yeah, I use MythWeb for about 98% of scheduling... ;-) And being able to playback any recording on any frontend is nice too, rather than just on the PVR it was recorded on.

[15:39:59]

resno|work:

resno|work: that is a nice feature. have you noticed any problems when streaming multiple feeds from a backend? network slowing down...

[15:41:06]

** J-e-f-f-A thanks kormoc, xris and any other mythweb developers for their great work! ;-) **

[15:41:06]

wagnerrp:

nope

[15:41:23]

wagnerrp:

resno|work: stuff coming out of a PVR card is going to be ~5mbps

[15:41:47]

wagnerrp:

stuff coming out of a digital tuner will be ~20mbps at most, likely closer to ~15mbps

[15:42:01]

wagnerrp:

so even 10/100 network has PLENTY of headroom

[15:42:20]

wagnerrp:

nearly any hardware you buy now is going to be gigabit capable

[15:42:30]

CyberKnet:

was going to say ... my hvr-2250 is about 18.2mbps

[15:42:33]

wagnerrp:

now if youre going the wireless route, good look...

[15:42:48]

wagnerrp:

luck

[15:42:52]

CyberKnet:

falls nicely in the range you gave

[15:43:14]

resno|work:

you think running wireless would pose problems?

[15:43:24]

wagnerrp:

absolutely

[15:43:26]

resno|work:

i was intending on doing that.

[15:43:37]

wagnerrp:

insufficient reliable throughput

[15:43:51]

CyberKnet:

I never get the throughput out of wireless gear that manufacturers claim

[15:44:06]

resno|work:

there is always a hicup to my plans

[15:44:20]

wagnerrp:

B is a complete lost cause

[15:44:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: I wouldn't trust wireless... You could try it, but YMMV – most have given up on it w/respect to MythTV.

[15:44:45]

wagnerrp:

G will probably work for standard definition, but youre not likely to have fun with high definition

[15:44:47]

resno|work:

ymmv?

[15:44:56]

wagnerrp:

N will probably work with 1–2 HD feeds, but thats about it

[15:45:02]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: All of my myth boxes are wired, I only use wireless for my laptop internet... (Your Mileage May Vary)

[15:45:16]

wagnerrp:

but understand in ALL of these cases, you WILL have occasional disconnects

[15:45:32]

wagnerrp:

wireless will drop for a second or two every so often

[15:45:42]

resno|work:

right, i have noticed that just in daily use

[15:45:53]

resno|work:

so i should run cat5 cables?

[15:45:54]

wagnerrp:

and while hardly noticeable when using the internet, you will not like it when streaming video

[15:45:56]

J-e-f-f-A:

^^ which is not an issue generally with an internet connection, but while watching streaming video... well, you know...

[15:46:18]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: go with Cat5e so you're ready for Gigabit when you can afford it. ;-)

[15:46:40]

wagnerrp:

afford it? probably all the computer hardware he has is gigabit

[15:46:42]

resno|work:

i wonder how the wife will feel about those cables running everywhere

[15:46:49]

wagnerrp:

and switches can be had for <<$50

[15:47:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: I updated my network to Gigabit about 1–1/2 years ago – and the frontend seems more responsive – probably more-so from lower latency with the network being 10x faster. ;-)

[15:48:18]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Are you able to reliably reproduce the multiple download thing? Does it redownload every time? Only on that series? Wondering if it might be related to some of the image hunt stuff from the last 48 hours (though I'm not seeing multiple downloads here)

[15:49:01]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: Do you own or rent?

[15:49:10]

resno|work:

J-e-f-f-A: rent

[15:49:50]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: ah... ;-) So drilling holes and running wires in the walls probably isn't an option... ;-)

[15:50:10]

ventz:

sphery: thanks. Setting the date in the php file worked

[15:50:18]

ventz:

(just updating on issue from yesterday)

[15:50:32]

ventz:

I wonder what changed since I never had to do that

[15:51:06]

resno|work:

J-e-f-f-A: if it was, i wouldnt worry as much.. but the complex may not like holes punched everywhere... how reliable is power networking?

[15:51:26]

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[15:51:29]

resno|work:

not sure if that even exists anymore, i remember it was hot a few years back

[15:51:45]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: from what I hear, not much better than wireless (if at all)

[15:52:19]

resno|work:

J-e-f-f-A: didnt think so... gets thats why it hasnt been talked about much

[15:52:34]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: And it's expensive too.

[15:53:28]

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[15:53:38]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: cute response to #7212

[15:53:54]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: said something cute? ;-)

[15:53:55]

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[15:54:04]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: heh, shame the original fix wasn't quite right :)

[15:56:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

... hehe... when I read that, I remember fighting with my system to get a DVD out recently, and thought I had hit 'Eject Media" twice by accident... ;-)

[15:56:28]

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[15:58:24]

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[15:58:27]

ExElNeT:

hmm can mythbuntu use more than 1gb ram? i wonder if i should use 1gb or 1.5gb or 500mb...

[15:58:53]

meshe:

1GB minimum

[15:58:58]

ventz:

ExElNeT: yes it can, I am using 8

[15:59:08]

ExElNeT:

woah... for what? :=)

[15:59:15]

ventz:

transcoding

[15:59:17]

J-e-f-f-A:

ExElNeT: I don't see why not... I'm running 4GB on my Fedora 8 backend...

[15:59:30]

CyberKnet:

hmmm... never thought to add more ram for transcoding

[15:59:34]

ventz:

ahh, to clarify — my back end is also my everything

[15:59:50]

ExElNeT:

its just that i have about 8 old chips... and i wonder how to distribute them among the boards.. :=)

[15:59:55]

ventz:

i have dual tv tunner cards, so between recording, and transcoding...it uses a good amount of ram

[16:00:21]

ExElNeT:

well ok i ll have 1 dvb-s card... thats it :=)

[16:00:33]

** CyberKnet has 2 x 2 input cards and runs with 1Gb **

[16:00:38]

stuarta:

my backend only has 768Mb of ram and it's quite happy

[16:01:16]

meshe:

stuarta: i have a combined be/fe with 768Mb that works fine until mythfilldb runs :)

[16:01:25]

CyberKnet:

almost always reports 100% ram usage, but never into swap

[16:01:28]

J-e-f-f-A:

hehe... I ran a backend on 512MB for a year or so... ;-) But that's only because it was RAMBUS memory, and it would have cost me more to upgrade it than to replace the box... ;-)

[16:01:32]

stuarta:

heh, i use EIT data so that's not a problem

[16:01:42]

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[16:02:28]

CyberKnet:

Need to get cacti installed so I can get a monitor to ensure swap is never used, I guess.

[16:02:34]

meshe:

the rule on that box is don't try to watch anything for 2 hours after powering it up

[16:02:49]

CyberKnet:

meshe: ouch

[16:03:16]

meshe:

CyberKnet: it's at the vacation property so it doesn't matter much, it's powered off 80% of the time

[16:03:21]

CyberKnet:

heh.

[16:03:28]

CyberKnet:

"the vacation property"

[16:03:34]

CyberKnet:

we should all be so lucky :)

[16:03:40]

resno|work:

meshe: vaction property... how nice

[16:03:58]

resno|work:

meanwhile im in a rental ;)

[16:04:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

Heck... I used to run an X-Box Myth Frontend... it's only got 64MB ram... It took like 3 or 4 mins to boot, and menus were slow, and the program you clicked on would start in about 5 secs after you clicked on it... but it worked... (0.20 days...)

[16:04:15]

ExElNeT:

so ill better go with the 1.5gb

[16:05:11]

CyberKnet:

ExElNeT: If you like. You've gotten multiple reports that people run combined front/backend systems on 1Gb with no hassles, but get what makes you feel comfortable – after all, you're the one that will have to live with it.

[16:05:23]

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[16:05:39]

CyberKnet:

ExElNeT: If the thought of running with less than 1.5Gb makes you feel nervous, then pay a few dollars more for peace of mind.

[16:05:44]

J-e-f-f-A:

ExElNeT: I'm an 'overkill' type of guy, so 'more is better' imho... ;-) I think all of my current frontends have 2GB, just makes them 'never' have to hit swap space. ;-)

[16:06:00]

CyberKnet:

ExElNeT: Your peace of mind is worth something.

[16:07:42]

meshe:

resno|work: the property has been in the family for 20 years, i just pay for the internet and myth hardware there :)

[16:08:51]

resno|work:

meshe: ah, i see.

[16:08:51]

J-e-f-f-A:

meshe: Is that 20 mins because it takes that much time for MFDB to get things back to a 'working' state after being idle for months? ;-)

[16:10:38]

meshe:

J-e-f-f-A: yeah, more like 2 hours though because it has to pull at least a week of listings sometimes 2

[16:11:20]

J-e-f-f-A:

meshe: Maybe you could set it up to power up daily by RTC, just to run MFDB, then shut down... ;-) hehehehe

[16:11:53]

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[16:12:06]

meshe:

nah, the power gets cut further back than that, cable modem, router, everything gets unplugged

[16:12:15]

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[16:12:58]

ExElNeT:

CyberKnet: hehe i dont have to buy anything. but having 500mb free all the time would be worthless :=)

[16:13:01]

J-e-f-f-A:

meshe: Ah... ;-)

[16:13:30]

resno|work:

meshe: is the property basically in off mode?

[16:14:02]

meshe:

ExElNeT: if you're planning to use it as a frontend, some of the new themes have caused mythfrontend to use > 800MB

[16:14:28]

meshe:

resno|work: yeah, everything except enough heat to keep the place from freezing and we keep a fridge running

[16:15:50]

resno|work:

meshe: 800mb to run a theme?

[16:15:53]

meshe:

I'd like to get some x10 hardware running there so we can heat the place up a couple hours before we get there in the winter

[16:16:06]

meshe:

resno|work: yeah with all the fanart

[16:16:44]

CyberKnet:

aaah. fanart.

[16:17:03]

CyberKnet:

Still, I may drop another gb into the machine in the not-too-distant future just in case.

[16:18:26]

resno|work:

meshe: wow, i keep thinking i can strip my frontend down, then i hear this and it bumps the specs up a bit

[16:18:37]

meshe:

ram is cheap

[16:19:33]

meshe:

i might have to dig up another gig for my frontend when I upgrade it to 0.22

[16:20:09]

resno|work:

i am not just thinking ram tho, its also processor power

[16:20:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno|work: You don't necessarily have to run the new pretty fanart themes, but they're so beautiful, I'd find it hard to do so...

[16:21:01]

meshe:

as soon as I go HD, i'm building a new FE with a 2.8 C2D (or i'll see what the prices are on the new i5's

[16:21:02]

resno|work:

J-e-f-f-A: pretty is always better.

[16:21:49]

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[16:22:00]

meshe:

pretty increases SAF

[16:23:53]

DjMadness|Lap:

I am for some reason unable to enter "Watch TV" while i am recording. I am surpost to get a "popup" asking if i want to watch as it records, however nothing happens what so ever. I've tried deleting the full mythtv database and resetting everything up, read the logs. I cant find anything related to the problem. Could someone point me in the right direction on what i should change ?

[16:24:29]

iamlindoro:

heh, surpost

[16:24:49]

iamlindoro:

Umm, sorry, think you mean "surpost'ta"

[16:24:50]

wagnerrp:

meshe: i wonder just what percentage of mythtv users cant call it 'WAF'

[16:25:07]

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[16:25:22]

meshe:

wagnerrp: probably very, very low

[16:26:08]

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[16:26:19]

meshe:

DjMadness|Lap: can you watch the file that's recorded in the watch recordings screen?

[16:26:28]

DjMadness|Lap:

iamlindoro, sorry i dont have english as my native language, hence my small spelling mistakes ;)

[16:26:34]

DjMadness|Lap:

meshe, yes i can

[16:26:56]

meshe:

DjMadness|Lap: that's pretty much all it's doing when it asks you if you want to watch what it's recording

[16:27:01]

DjMadness|Lap:

and i can also watch it while its recording... however its not the same (ie like i want to watch the next show after)

[16:27:13]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: I guess if you wanted to be techincal, I'd call mine "BAF"

[16:27:16]

meshe:

DjMadness|Lap: yeah, it doesn't work like that

[16:27:28]

DjMadness|Lap:

meshe: it has worked like that for me...

[16:27:41]

DjMadness|Lap:

its suddonly it broke yesterday

[16:28:04]

J-e-f-f-A:

DjMadness|Lap: What changed?

[16:28:16]

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[16:28:21]

DjMadness|Lap:

ie i press "R" to start recording, escape to go out of live tv, when i want to go in again, it does not ask me, the screen blinks and it just stands in the main menu

[16:28:23]

meshe:

DjMadness|Lap: if you're watching live tv it will, but as soon as you tell it to record (ie: save for later) you're now watching a recorded copy

[16:28:49]

wagnerrp:

im sure theres some joke about 'who wears the ESD strap in that family'

[16:29:11]

DjMadness|Lap:

meshe: ye i know that, but the watch tv option should popup asking me to watch it while its recording (it wont let me)

[16:29:20]

oobe:

any one else having problems with lossless transcoding in trunk

[16:29:35]

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[16:29:48]

wagnerrp:

oobe: used it a couple days ago

[16:30:11]

meshe:

DjMadness|Lap: i would try to answer J-e-f-f-A's question, what changed? did you do any kind of configuration changes? did you do updates to the OS?

[16:30:17]

DjMadness|Lap:

J-e-f-f-A: i dont know what options ive changed... i was working on getting teletext working. witch i have given up on.

[16:30:42]

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[16:30:47]

DjMadness|Lap:

no os updates what so ever.. only mythtv-setup and mythfrontend setups.

[16:30:59]

oobe:

when i use a lossless profile it just times out when its finished transcoding leaving the *.tmp there and not overwriting the original and not updating the database

[16:31:00]

DjMadness|Lap:

ive even tried from a clean mythtv install (cleared database etc)

[16:31:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

DjMadness|Lap: What version of MythTV?

[16:31:18]

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[16:31:23]

DjMadness|Lap:

0.21_p16505

[16:31:37]

DjMadness|Lap:

i mean 0.21_p19961-r2

[16:32:26]

oobe:

when i do a lossless transcode in trunk it stays stuck at generating keyframe index leaving a perfectly good edited *.tmp in my recordings directory when i transcode using a lossy profile it works fine only lossless seems to hang

[16:32:41]

oobe:

thats what i wrote before

[16:32:57]

oobe:

im trying to work out if its a problem on my system or in trunk

[16:34:01]

iamlindoro:

oo'be: Are you waiting long enough? The keyframe index step is taking a LONG time at the moment because of the "invalid pts/dts combination" messages spewing to the log

[16:34:21]

oobe:

oh ok maybe im not

[16:34:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

DjMadness|Lap: Is that even 0.21-fixes? I probably haven't pulled a recent copy of -fixes in a couple of weeks, and the current 0-21-fixes version is 22132 – and I'm running 21047, which is newer than yours...

[16:34:45]

oobe:

i noticed i got those messages when i ran transcode manual to rebuild a seektable

[16:35:10]

oobe:

but i did wait a while

[16:35:11]

DjMadness|Lap:

also it seams when i run the frontend with -v most i get "TV Error: Failed to get recording show list"

[16:35:18]

oobe:

like a lot longer than usual

[16:35:27]

iamlindoro:

Wait more a lot longer ;)

[16:35:53]

DjMadness|Lap:

J-e-f-f-A: i pulled it down from portage here 2 days ago, so i guess most patches are included (however i am using x86 not ~x86)

[16:35:54]

oobe:

lol i overwrote the originals with the *.tmp files then rebuild the index

[16:36:06]

oobe:

only problem is mythtv thinks they are the old size

[16:36:15]

iamlindoro:

Don't do that

[16:36:18]

oobe:

but apart from that its fine

[16:36:18]

iamlindoro:

just be more patient

[16:36:32]

oobe:

was wondering if it was a bug or just my system

[16:36:46]

iamlindoro:

let it run, let it sit at the keyframe index generation, come back in an hour or two and see if it's still there

[16:36:51]

iamlindoro:

but I expect it won't be

[16:37:03]

iamlindoro:

the pts/dts combo thing is a known issue

[16:37:04]

oobe:

is the "invalid pts/dts combination" a bug thats going to be fixed

[16:37:41]

iamlindoro:

No, it's one we hope to keep around because we like it so much

[16:38:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

DjMadness|Lap: I'm not familar with portage as I run Fedora... but perhaps check if there's a specific 0.21-fixes version – I wonder if you d/l the 'base' 0.21 version...

[16:38:31]

oobe:

another thing is when a transcode finishes the process never dies and after a few days of uptime there are many idle mythtranscode's that i need to kill manually is this a known issue

[16:38:49]

sphery:

ventz: Glad you got it working. The PHP time zone autodetection thing is a strange issue, and I really don't know why it only works sometimes. On the bright side, in trunk, MythWeb will automatically override the PHP time zone to make sure it always works, even if PHP autodetects wrong, and users haven't set the time zone in php.ini.

[16:40:12]

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[16:40:15]

** J-e-f-f-A steps away to grab some lunch... **

[16:42:18]

DjMadness|Lap:

J-e-f-f-A: that specific function was working yesterday, however it kinda broke after i was changing alot of settings.

[16:45:28]

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[16:47:48]

iamlindoro:

superdump: So I saw your response on the ML... does that mean you got the support you needed to work on -mt? Hoping so :)

[16:50:05]

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[16:51:11]

oobe:

iamlindoro, should i report the problem with mythtranscode not exiting and leaving multiple transcode process's hanging after the job is finished?

[16:51:27]

oobe:

what i mean is it a know issue

[16:53:20]

ExElNeT:

can the frontend run without X ... with tvout fb?

[16:53:28]

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[16:54:04]

wagnerrp:

it *can*, i dont know if anyone has tested it recently

[16:54:36]

gbee:

breaks regularly since very few people have the hardware or motivation to keep it working

[16:55:00]

gbee:

plus it's SD only which is pretty unappealing

[16:55:10]

j-rod:

but the broken pieces are yours to keep, free of charge

[16:55:50]

meshe:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV_in_Framebuffer

[16:56:19]

ExElNeT:

thanks

[16:56:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

DjMadness|Lap: Perhaps restore just your settings table from the nightly sql backups?

[16:57:36]

j-rod:

march 2007... qt 3.x... yeah, that's bound to be fail...

[16:57:54]

j-rod:

(with svn trunk, anywho)

[16:58:40]

DjMadness|Lap:

J-e-f-f-A: ill give it a try

[16:58:54]

wagnerrp:

any particular reason you dont want to run X?

[16:59:29]

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[16:59:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

j-rod: did you make any progress the last week or two on your other project? ;-)

[16:59:47]

j-rod:

code-wise, no, I suck

[17:00:06]

j-rod:

legal-wise, progress...

[17:00:14]

J-e-f-f-A:

j-rod: Doh! (And I wouldn't say that... ;-) ) ^^ ooh, that's good.

[17:01:29]

oobe:

anyone know what "enable flat view" does in mythvideo?

[17:01:51]

wagnerrp:

makes the view flat

[17:02:00]

J-e-f-f-A:

oobe: makes all women look very non-attactive...

[17:02:02]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to showing you the directory structure

[17:02:08]

oobe:

lol

[17:02:17]

oobe:

non-attractive

[17:03:16]

oobe:

thanks wagnerrp

[17:05:26]

gbee:

oobe: shows all videos in one big list instead of directory order

[17:07:05]

oobe:

doesnt seem to change anything for me when i enable or disable it

[17:07:19]

iamlindoro:

Because it conflicts with having metadata group modes enabled

[17:07:29]

iamlindoro:

If you want to use it, you need to disable metadata browse modes

[17:09:05]

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[17:09:14]

oobe:

oh ok

[17:11:34]

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[17:14:34]

mzb:

gee, I like the look of her spanning tree!

[17:15:11]

wagnerrp:

now come on... that just made no sense

[17:15:15]

** mzb decides that sleep is required **

[17:15:57]

jduggan:

that was random

[17:16:00]

mzb:

stp ... nm ;)

[17:16:11]

jduggan:

yea

[17:16:16]

jduggan:

we're all familiar with 802.1d

[17:16:17]

jduggan:

;P

[17:16:30]

mzb:

k, gnite all :)

[17:16:36]

jduggan:

nicht

[17:16:39]

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[17:16:48]

resno:

mzb: afternoon to me ;)

[17:17:15]

** mzb crawls to bed at 3:19am **

[17:17:26]

jduggan:

.au ?

[17:17:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno: he's in AUS... basically 3am ^^ exactly for him... ;-)

[17:18:18]

resno:

J-e-f-f-A: i figure

[17:19:34]

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[17:23:01]

iamlindoro:

oobe: care to test a patch?

[17:23:52]

oobe:

ok but im not sure if i have the dev tools installed i use the mythbuntu repo

[17:24:02]

oobe:

i dont build trunk myself

[17:24:19]

iamlindoro:

OK, never mind then, I'll just test myself this afternoon

[17:24:36]

oobe:

what is it

[17:24:43]

iamlindoro:

have a patch that ought to allow flatlist to work w/ metadata browse modes, should be fine, I'll just test and commit later

[17:25:30]

oobe:

oh ok

[17:25:47]

oobe:

im just building trunk now seems to build ok so far

[17:26:01]

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[17:26:15]

iamlindoro:

don't worry about it, I'd only want you to test it if you were building regularly-- Only asked because I'm at work for now

[17:26:42]

oobe:

i tried flat list with metadata browse disabled not my thing i dont think

[17:27:02]

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[17:27:03]

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[17:27:43]

iamlindoro:

If I've learned anything so far, it's that every single setting is *someone's* thing, and if you move, change, or modify it in any way, your life as you know it is over

[17:28:02]

oobe:

lol

[17:28:18]

oobe:

yea i can see how that would happen

[17:29:11]

CyberKnet:

Don't toggle other people's bits.

[17:29:16]

CyberKnet:

It's just courtesy ;)

[17:29:52]

iamlindoro:

indeed

[17:30:23]

iamlindoro:

Why I would think it would be okay to introduce any delay, slowdown, or increased requirements when adding massive new features is beyond me

[17:30:42]

iamlindoro:

Everyone knows it should just get faster and more blingy, and continue to work on the TV out of a PVR-350 on a VIA 266 Mhz

[17:30:56]

AndrewNC:

I was thinking how cool it would be to have mythtv auto detect 16:9 sd broadcast and zoom it, and what do ya know, it already does :-) http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4872

[17:31:05]

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[17:31:05]

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[17:31:13]

** stuarta prepares for the big rescan **

[17:31:34]

iamlindoro:

oh yeah, rescan day in the UK

[17:31:46]

iamlindoro:

Isn't that an occasion for a Doctor Who special or something ? ;)

[17:32:01]

AndrewNC:

UK shifting their broadcast frequencies?

[17:32:10]

iamlindoro:

(That'd probably be a GREAT way to a) get people to rescan and b) make then burn down the BBC when they didn't)

[17:32:17]

oobe:

iamlindoro, did you see what i asked before about mythtranscode process not dieing

[17:32:27]

oobe:

im not sure if i described it properly

[17:32:34]

oobe:

but i cant find any tickets on it

[17:32:41]

stuarta:

channel re-organization in preparation for HD over dvb-t2

[17:32:43]

iamlindoro:

oobe: Mythtranscode really isn't my baby, that's not something I've heard of

[17:33:24]

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[17:33:50]

oobe:

im not a member of the dev mailing list and its hard for me to know if i should bother reporting things as im unsure of the procedure and what is or isnt already known

[17:34:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

oobe: I'd say either join the -dev list, or search it on gossamer ...

[17:36:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

oobe: ie: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/

[17:36:18]

iamlindoro:

if you're running trunk and you expect answers, not being a member is not an option

[17:36:29]

oobe:

thanks J-e-f-f-A

[17:36:38]

oobe:

just signed up

[17:36:48]

sphery:

OUT FOR DELIVERY <--- woo hoo! today I get my replacement heatsink/fan, so I can put my network back together properly

[17:36:58]

oobe:

i will try to keep an eye on threads and search for a bit before posting

[17:37:34]

sphery:

(and, can make sure my myth backends don't suffer the same heat death as my other server)

[17:38:10]

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[17:38:39]

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[17:38:44]

kabads:

I've tried retuning my mythtv backend, but it doesn't seem to have been implemented. I used mythtv-setup – what other steps might be missing?

[17:38:56]

oobe:

iamlindoro, i will try that patch if you want mythtv built ok

[17:39:04]

CyberKnet:

if I have four tuners, is it OK that I have five records in capturecard?

[17:39:13]

sphery:

wow... kabads made it from channel to channel without being attacked by the bandits that seem to stop most people along the way...

[17:39:26]

iamlindoro:

oobe: It's okay, I'll just test myself a bit later

[17:39:28]

stuarta:

:)

[17:39:45]

oobe:

ok

[17:40:01]

sphery:

kabads: just do another Scan for Channels (in the Input Connections screen, IIRC) and there you can set the type of scan

[17:40:07]

kabads:

sphery: perhaps I'm extra lucky today :-)

[17:40:10]

sphery:

kabads: i.e. minimal updates or full scan or ...

[17:40:26]

kabads:

sphery: I did a full scan thinking it would pick it all up

[17:40:31]

kabads:

sphery: will try again

[17:40:39]

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[17:40:56]

sphery:

kabads: I'm a /big/ fan (probably the biggest fan ever) of deleting the video source and re-creating it whenever I do a rescan

[17:41:13]

stuarta:

they clearly haven't quite finished re-jigging my TX

[17:41:17]

sphery:

kabads: with that approach, you can then ensure that it only keeps new channels and everything in there is good

[17:41:23]

stuarta:

ITV2+1 is currently called ITV

[17:41:35]

stuarta:

the old ITV2+1 is currently unlabelled

[17:41:38]

sphery:

kabads: make sure you use "Delete all video sources", though, to ensure /everything/ is properly cleaned up (even old garbage)

[17:41:49]

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[17:41:54]

kabads:

sphery: that sounds good, as long as it doesn't bork anything, but I guess there's a pretty low risk of that (I'm thinking of future scheduled recordings).

[17:41:56]

sphery:

kabads: FWIW: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[17:42:11]

stuarta:

kabads: it won't remove your recording rules

[17:42:12]

sphery:

kabads: if you use "any channel" rules, it will not have any effect on recordings

[17:42:27]

stuarta:

but you will have to reget program data

[17:42:27]

sphery:

kabads: if you use "this channel" rules, it may cause issues for those rules

[17:42:36]

kabads:

sphery: Ah, I do use any channel quite regularly – here goes nothing.

[17:43:05]

** stuarta wonders why there are soooo many crap channels **

[17:43:35]

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[17:43:35]

sphery:

kabads: if you have any "this channel" rules, you'll need to find the rule and see if it matches properly. If not, change it to "any channel", then if you want it to stay a "this channel", find an episode on the proper channel and select it and change the rule back to "this channel"

[17:43:35]

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[17:43:47]

sphery:

kabads: or just delete the old rule and create a new "this channel" rule

[17:46:33]

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[17:46:44]

kabads:

sphery: thanks – it's scanning again now

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[17:48:46]

oobe:

hey scan for changes seems to be working properly in mythvideo now :)

[17:48:55]

resno:

just had a big scare at work... now its time to calm down and get back to work

[17:50:08]

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[17:54:38]

iamlindoro:

oobe: Scan for changes has always worked

[17:55:03]

oobe:

yea but it used to take a while for the video's to show up

[17:55:11]

iamlindoro:

oobe: You've always had to (and still have to) exit and wait five seconds after scanning, and still do

[17:55:16]

oobe:

but now it seems like that issue is fixed

[17:55:24]

iamlindoro:

if you are seeing videos show up, you have file browse mode on

[17:55:32]

iamlindoro:

no, the scan issue is not fixed

[17:55:36]

oobe:

oh ok

[17:55:59]

iamlindoro:

though it will be fairly shortly

[17:56:17]

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[17:57:03]

oobe:

this time i scanned and it appeared fairly quickly thought it was fixed

[17:58:34]

iamlindoro:

it will never just appear without leaving mythvideo at the moment

[17:59:36]

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[18:00:26]

meshe:

will the possibility of duplicates be fixed too?

[18:01:04]

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[18:01:21]

wagnerrp:

meshe: thought that was fixed a while back

[18:01:40]

iamlindoro:

meshe: All duplicate causing issues are fixed *except* for if you scan twice without leaving to allow the cache to die

[18:01:52]

iamlindoro:

meshe: That one will be fixed with the scan fix

[18:01:57]

sphery:

which will be fixed...

[18:01:59]

sphery:

too slow

[18:02:01]

** meshe nods **

[18:02:14]

sphery:

(meaning /I/ was too slow, not the scan fix)

[18:02:23]

wagnerrp:

sphery: story of your life... :P

[18:02:57]

CyberKnet:

better than too fast.

[18:02:59]

CyberKnet:

:D

[18:02:59]

kabads:

sphery: channel idents now have "unknown" instead of BBC1 etc.

[18:03:20]

wagnerrp:

yeah, scan fix wont be 'to slow' unless 0.22 suddenly gets branched

[18:04:37]

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[18:05:51]

kabads:

ah, no, I was wrong – it's another part of the EPG that's unknown, although I'm not sure what it is

[18:06:30]

kabads:

I think it's the programme guide – it doesn't know the name of the current program

[18:06:39]

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[18:07:15]

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[18:11:53]

dustybin:

excellent show to record for people living in UK: http://www.bbc.co.uk/electricdreams/

[18:12:32]

wagnerrp:

isnt that some reality tv show?

[18:12:38]

dustybin:

yes

[18:13:01]

wagnerrp:

and you guys think you can actually make that drivel worth watching?

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[18:17:56]

w0ls0n:

hello all and good afternoon

[18:18:00]

iamlindoro:

w0ls0n: It's totally fine, i like to tease but you didn't make any mistakes

[18:18:15]

** kormoc tips his hat **

[18:18:29]

w0ls0n:

I have a box I am going to use for myth tv ... I was looking at newegg for tv card choices

[18:18:30]

CyberKnet:

what a reception...

[18:18:32]

iamlindoro:

Hello isn't offlimits, but where i saw it going might have been :)

[18:18:40]

w0ls0n:

:-)

[18:18:52]

w0ls0n:

is there a compatability list of tv tuners?

[18:19:04]

iamlindoro:

w0ls0n: www.linux.tv.org is the best source

[18:19:07]

w0ls0n:

CyberKnet: I'm famous :-P

[18:19:09]

iamlindoro:

er www.linuxtv.org

[18:19:11]

kormoc:

without the .

[18:19:19]

** kormoc blinks **

[18:19:29]

sphery:

w0ls0n: what format?

[18:19:30]

wagnerrp:

w0ls0n: from your signon domain, you arent using freebsd are you?

[18:19:39]

sphery:

ATSC/NTSC/PAL/DVB?

[18:19:45]

iamlindoro:

w0ls0n: Basically any linux compatible digital or analog tuner should work fine with myth, though depending on what you hope to capture there may be better or worse choices

[18:19:47]

w0ls0n:

NTSC

[18:19:48]

Dagmar:

http://www.google.com/search?q=linux+compatab . . . of+tv+tuners

[18:19:56]

Dagmar:

Google fail.

[18:20:13]

sphery:

w0ls0n: for NTSC, I /highly/ recommend the Hauppauge PVR-150 or PVR-500 or HVR-1600

[18:20:16]

kormoc:

compatibility spelling fail

[18:20:19]

iamlindoro:

I second that

[18:20:22]

wagnerrp:

there are a few exceptions on either side

[18:20:26]

sphery:

where the 150 and 500 are really only available in the US from ebay

[18:20:26]

w0ls0n:

I would like to take a stab at mythtv on freebsd

[18:20:32]

Dagmar:

kormoc: It doesn't even matter. Google still turns over links by the bucketful

[18:20:32]

wagnerrp:

the HVR-1800 has NTSC support under linux, but not under mythtv

[18:20:35]

sphery:

(or maybe a few retailers with "remaining stock")

[18:20:45]

Dagmar:

kormoc: All I did was paste J. Random Moron's question into Google

[18:20:54]

wagnerrp:

the HDHR has support under linux, but does not use any standard linux interface

[18:20:59]

wagnerrp:

w0ls0n: that is largely a mistake

[18:21:05]

w0ls0n:

yea?

[18:21:19]

wagnerrp:

freebsd just doesnt have the tuner support for mythtv

[18:21:26]

w0ls0n:

ah

[18:21:38]

wagnerrp:

it is some old depreciated and semi-functional drivers for the hauppauge PVR line

[18:21:41]

w0ls0n:

well im not opposed to using something else. I do have some linux background

[18:21:42]

wagnerrp:

ive never gotten them to work

[18:21:48]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: hdhr won't work?

[18:21:51]

** w0ls0n eyes Dagmar **

[18:21:56]

wagnerrp:

and then theres the HDHR, which works under -fixes

[18:21:59]

sphery:

Dagmar: http://letmegogglethatforyou.com?i=linux+comp . . . of+tv+tuners

[18:22:07]

wagnerrp:

but for some reason, i get problems when changing channels under trunk

[18:22:17]

kormoc:

sphery: lmgtfy.com is the better url ;)

[18:22:24]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: goggle

[18:22:27]

wagnerrp:

when i change channels, i get a few seconds of video, and then the feed cuts out

[18:22:29]

sphery:

kormoc: goggle is perfect when someone misspells :)

[18:22:29]

iamlindoro:

worth checking out the link :)

[18:22:42]

kormoc:

ha

[18:22:46]

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[18:22:55]

sphery:

first time I've ever gotten to use that :)

[18:22:58]

** sphery is happy **

[18:23:08]

wagnerrp:

so i can change channels, fail out of livetv, go back into livetv, and watch the channel just fine

[18:23:27]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Could well have to do with the numerous issues w/ the HDHR of late

[18:23:33]

wagnerrp:

but recordings will fail outright after only a couple seconds

[18:23:34]

w0ls0n:

I think I saw a PVR-150 thats low priles

[18:23:37]

iamlindoro:

Which seem to be slowly getting handled

[18:23:48]

w0ls0n:

I have a low-profile box I would like to use

[18:24:08]

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wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: ive had HDHR problems with trunk under freebsd since switching last december

[18:24:11]

wagnerrp:

it worked fine under -fixes, it never worked properly under trunk

[18:24:12]

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[18:24:13]

sphery:

wagnerrp: channels changed/need a rescan and Quick Tuning differences? (Did we already try that?)

[18:24:22]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Yeah, just wondered whether any of the open tickets on it in trunk might have some relation to what you see

[18:24:33]

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[18:24:43]

wagnerrp:

sphery: previously, it just wouldnt capture at all

[18:24:53]

wagnerrp:

a few months ago, it started working as stated

[18:25:17]

wagnerrp:

i can capture just fine, but when i change channels, (it changes fine but) i only get a few seconds of the new channel

[18:25:31]

** J-e-f-f-A hasn't tried his HDHR on his trunk box yet... **

[18:25:42]

w0ls0n:

ah

[18:25:44]

w0ls0n:

thats right

[18:26:12]

wagnerrp:

you might be able to use firewire under freebsd, i dont know how similar those two systems are

[18:27:30]

wagnerrp:

sphery: and its not a channel scan issue, because i an use the same box, with the same source on my linux backend without issue

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[18:54:38]

will:

Hi all – before I raise a ticket, anyone else also have dvb-t channel scans fail on the latest svn?

[18:58:28]

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will:

Seems that the tuner type isn't being passed in to ParseTuningParams inside dtvmultiplex.cpp – that's as far as my debugging skills reach

[19:00:32]

phunyguy:

i know this isn't avidemux support, but does anyone in here use it?

[19:01:17]

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** dustybin feels excited **

[19:38:04]

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[19:38:46]

** jduggan joins the trunk crowd **

[19:38:58]

jduggan:

dustybin, for?

[19:41:41]

dustybin:

.22 is 92%

[19:41:53]

jduggan:

oh

[19:41:54]

jduggan:

meh

[19:41:55]

jduggan:

:p

[19:42:26]

** CyberKnet wonders how many folks think the next person that indicates how far away .22 is should be delivered their own personal 22 **

[19:42:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

dustybin: Based on % of open tickets vs closed tickets?

[19:42:49]

dustybin:

i havent tested trunk at all, thats why im excited, this will a total new experience

[19:42:55]

dustybin:

J-e-f-f-A: aye http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/roadmap

[19:43:44]

CyberKnet:

does that include the when-ijr-says-so factor?

[19:44:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

CyberKnet: Doubt it! ;-)

[19:44:50]

dustybin:

holy lord, i will need to re-tune my freeview today

[19:44:52]

CyberKnet:

Arguably more important than the when-all-the-bugs-are-fixed factor

[19:44:55]

dustybin:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8280067.stm

[19:44:56]

J-e-f-f-A:

Gee, I didn't know wood emited 15Db of sound: http://fpoutlet.freewebhostx.com/images/asr_i . . . _660x307.jpg

[19:45:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

^^ That's from an eBay auction for an Asrock Atom 330 Ion system...

[19:45:34]

CyberKnet:

J-e-f-f-A: If we weren't in mixed company, I could explain how ;)

[19:45:39]

dustybin:

'The technical changes behind the upgrade will eventually enable high-definition (HD) television to be broadcast on Freeview. HD is already available on the free-to-air satellite service Freesat.'

[19:45:48]

** dustybin feels double excited **

[19:46:27]

jduggan:

old news really

[19:46:36]

dustybin:

to you maybe!

[19:46:50]

CyberKnet:

J-e-f-f-A: I was really interested in the ASRock 330 and whatever ViewSonic's ION solution is ... until I realized you could extend hdmi and usb over cat-5

[19:46:59]

AndrewNC:

iamlindoro: what was the font that graphite originally used?

[19:47:08]

CyberKnet:

interest level plummetted after that – extenders were by far the cheaper solution to the problem :)

[19:47:30]

iamlindoro:

AndrewNC: Frutiger

[19:47:32]

oobe:

anyone know what "test: 454: 5: unexpected operator" means when i run ./configure in mythplugins

[19:47:33]

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[19:47:37]

iamlindoro:

Frutiger Light 45, specifically

[19:49:22]

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[19:51:20]

AndrewNC:

interesting, common in european signage, including Charles de Gaulle airport and swiss highway signs

[19:52:16]

iamlindoro:

yep

[19:52:44]

AndrewNC:

I wonder if that new US highway font is free

[19:53:13]

Dagmar:

oobe: It means you should report a bug

[19:53:29]

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[19:53:44]

iamlindoro:

nore likely running the configure script with the wrong shell

[19:53:46]

iamlindoro:

er more

[19:54:12]

Dagmar:

That would be a "user idiocy" problem

[19:54:12]

oobe:

bash? is wrong

[19:54:29]

AndyCap:

AndrewNC: are you going to use myth on billboards? :P

[19:55:00]

AndyCap:

AndrewNC: heh, 795$ http://clearviewhwy.com/order/index.php

[19:55:59]

AndrewNC:

yeah, just found that, clearview is not cheap!

[19:56:19]

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[19:56:25]

AndyCap:

AndrewNC: or redistributable

[19:56:45]

AndrewNC:

I had thought it was a publicly funded project but I was mistaken

[19:58:36]

sphery:

oobe: using dash? (Ubuntu or Debian)

[19:59:03]

sphery:

oobe: also, -fixes or trunk (and what revision)?

[19:59:16]

oobe:

trunk latest

[19:59:24]

oobe:

i am using ubuntu

[20:00:00]

Dagmar:

So, it's probably something that was passed to configure then

[20:01:06]

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[20:01:56]

sphery:

trunk latest? If so, that error message is awful (as it's on a fi with a /lot/ of code between)

[20:02:27]

AndrewNC:

do many/most mythtv devs use eclipse? I've been running through the setup guide on my home notebook, still getting qt integration to work

[20:03:06]

sphery:

I'm guessing not many/maybe one uses eclipse

[20:04:01]

sphery:

oobe: can you pastebin your mythplugins/configure script? (as I don't think that error is possible with current)

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[20:04:18]

Dagmar:

It would help if we saw all the arguments you passed to ti

[20:04:37]

oobe:

the actualy script yeah sure

[20:05:04]

Dagmar:

...and the arguments you passed to it

[20:06:06]

oobe:

http://pastebin.ca/1586590

[20:06:30]

oobe:

i did ./configure --prefix=/usr

[20:06:36]

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[20:07:12]

sphery:

ok, it is just a terrible error message

[20:07:47]

AndyCap:

heh, that's what one gets for doing if tests in shell scripts

[20:08:05]

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[20:08:15]

Dagmar:

There's nothing wrong with that

[20:08:57]

AndyCap:

Dagmar: no, but it's not common to write them robustly.

[20:09:13]

Dagmar:

So fix them then

[20:09:23]

Dagmar:

I still think there's something seriously broken on the user's machine

[20:09:26]

** jduggan twiddles thumbs waiting **

[20:10:11]

AndyCap:

Dagmar: could be. but ideally configure should say what's missing instead of giving a syntax error

[20:10:15]

sphery:

oobe: do me a favor and edit configure and change the first line to: #!/bin/bassh

[20:10:22]

sphery:

then try again

[20:10:25]

sphery:

please :)

[20:10:36]

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[20:10:44]

Dagmar:

With fewer spurious s'es

[20:11:07]

sphery:

oopsssss... yeah

[20:11:11]

AndyCap:

roll big bashish.

[20:11:15]

sphery:

#!/bin/bash

[20:11:18]

sphery:

would work better

[20:11:18]

Dagmar:

AndyCap: I'm of the opinion he should just run `bash -x configure --prefix=/usr` so we can at least see what line is erroring out

[20:11:43]

sphery:

that would work, too

[20:11:55]

oobe:

sphery, that fixed it

[20:12:13]

Dagmar:

Other than the lame uses of 'test x"$opt"' and similar in there, the whole screen is almost too simple tof fail

[20:12:21]

Dagmar:

s/screen/script/;

[20:12:34]

Dagmar:

oobe: So what shell do you really use

[20:12:44]

AndyCap:

dash?

[20:13:17]

oobe:

i mainly use bash

[20:13:36]

** Dagmar gives up **

[20:13:39]

AndyCap:

oobe: what shell is /bin/sh on your box?

[20:14:02]

oobe:

you mean what is it linked too

[20:14:05]

oobe:

im not sure

[20:14:17]

Dagmar:

I'd like to figure out what in that script isn't actually sh-compatibile, or if there's a problem with dash, but I'm not a freaking dentist.

[20:14:18]

oobe:

dash

[20:14:26]

oobe:

i just check

[20:14:31]

AndyCap:

:)

[20:14:44]

AndyCap:

had to be the new kid on the block

[20:15:04]

AndyCap:

Dagmar: you don't have to be a dentist to pull teeth.

[20:15:10]

Dagmar:

Most of the other stuff in that configure script makes me want to just stab someone

[20:15:32]

Dagmar:

AndyCap: Really? Because I was under the impression that people aren't supposed to have to pull teeth unless they're a dentist

[20:15:37]

sphery:

Dagmar: so, does dash have a -x equivalent?

[20:15:51]

Dagmar:

Dunno. It would be interesting to find otu

[20:16:03]

AndyCap:

Dagmar: some non-dentists quite enjoy it.

[20:16:04]

sphery:

*buntu (and *Debian) is dash

[20:16:19]

Dagmar:

Stuff like the has_library() check tho... sheesh

[20:16:22]

Dagmar:

Cruuuude

[20:16:23]

sphery:

which is why I assumed this is a dash-unsupported-thing

[20:17:13]

AndyCap:

dash has -x

[20:17:16]

AndyCap:

-x xtrace' Write each command to standard error (preceded by a '+ ') before it is executed. Useful for debugging.

[20:17:17]

Dagmar:

Crude, and unless I'm misinterpreting something, very freaking wrong

[20:17:48]

oobe:

damn i still get the same build errors

[20:17:55]

AndyCap:

(that line is verbatim from the manpage, I'm not endorsing -x) :)

[20:18:00]

oobe:

this is the first line of many many /usr/include/mythtv/mythcontext.h:9:19: error: QObject: No such file or directory

[20:18:00]

Dagmar:

I'm going to have to go buy some of those new clove little cigars and soon or I'll kill someone today

[20:18:13]

Dagmar:

oobe: You've never built trunk before, have you

[20:18:16]

sphery:

oobe: you're using qt3

[20:18:24]

AndyCap:

Dagmar: do it today, tomorrow may be too late.

[20:18:34]

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[20:18:37]

oobe:

i have qt4 installed

[20:18:46]

sphery:

oobe: but you're /using/ qt3 :)

[20:18:47]

AndyCap:

and qt4-devel ?

[20:18:58]

Dagmar:

So, obviously, you've never built trunk before.

[20:19:03]

AndyCap:

or whatever they call the actual package with includes etc

[20:19:07]

Dagmar:

Unless you NEED a feature from it, I'd suggest not

[20:19:13]

Dagmar:

This is only going to get more painful.

[20:19:17]

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[20:19:57]

oobe:

sphery, how do i make sure to use qt4

[20:20:30]

sphery:

that I don't know

[20:20:39]

sphery:

what's: echo $PATH

[20:20:41]

Dagmar:

Contact your distro maintainer, they can tell you

[20:20:43]

AndyCap:

oobe: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Installing_MythTV_ . . . buntu_Breezy ?

[20:20:55]

oobe:

the configure script specify's the paths to qt4

[20:21:39]

Dagmar:

No, it doesn't.

[20:22:01]

AndyCap:

and no I can't keep the perverted animals from each other, so I have no idea what exact version of ubuntu that guide is for

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[20:24:32]

sphery:

http://www.freetype.org/freetype2/docs/tutorial/step1.html (#5)

[20:24:42]

AndrewNC:

I've never understood ubuntu release names and versions, too strange to attempt

[20:24:52]

sphery:

oops, wrong window

[20:24:58]

Dagmar:

I was wondering about that

[20:26:03]

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[20:26:04]

sphery:

yeah, that doesn't really help fix/find the bashism in mythplugins/configure

[20:26:26]

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[20:26:42]

Dagmar:

having a mammal on the job would help

[20:27:06]

oobe:

sphery, thanks it was using /usr/bin/qmake i changed it too /usr/bin/qmake-qt4

[20:27:48]

Dagmar:

A sentient life form would have been able to do it the correct way.

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[20:32:30]

sphery:

oobe: feel like debugging the dash issue with configure by running it as: dash -x configure --prefix=/usr

[20:35:46]

oobe:

yes that works

[20:36:04]

oobe:

im having the same errors now i specified qt3

[20:36:09]

oobe:

i mean qt4

[20:36:17]

oobe:

but its time for sleep

[20:36:24]

sphery:

yeah, once you've configured with qt3, you have to clean up

[20:36:35]

sphery:

find . -name 'Makefile' -delete && svn revert -R .

[20:39:48]

Dagmar:

You might want to try ./configure --help since it'll explain how one CORRECTLY specifies an alternate qmake

[20:39:59]

Dagmar:

We do not edit configure scripts.

[20:41:00]

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[20:44:44]

oobe:

i did Dagmar

[20:45:11]

justinh:

well, that was better than I expected. no dead channels, all upcoming recordings intact. xmltv playing nicely. Phew. Oh and we'll have to do it again in November & December (Winter Hill users & others). Bah

[20:45:16]

Dagmar:

So perhaps you need to use http://www.rif.org

[20:45:25]

oobe:

./configure --prefix=/usr --qmake=/usr/bin/qmake-qt4

[20:45:43]

Dagmar:

...because for most intelligent life, the --qmake= argument would have just jumped right out at them.

[20:46:22]

justinh:

tested all my channels when I got home. Gawd, how does anybody put up with 'live tv' ?

[20:46:34]

Dagmar:

So when are you going to run this script with -x and tell us what it output instead of just saying "it works"

[20:46:56]

Dagmar:

justinh: I'd say it's got something to do with that they watch 'live TV'.

[20:47:13]

Dagmar:

i.e., they graze and/or wallow in mediocrity and commercial solicitations

[20:47:15]

justinh:

like just leave it on one channel & veg out? lol

[20:47:23]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: hehe... I only use it for testing tuners too... ;-) 3–4 secs with my channel change scripts and external STBs...

[20:47:37]

justinh:

3–4 secs? wow that's fast

[20:47:57]

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[20:47:59]

Dagmar:

There aren't cases where -x should significantly change the result of a shell script

[20:48:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: yours was slower? Yikes. Now I can see why you are complaining more... ;-)

[20:48:36]

justinh:

J-e-f-f-A: not so much on proper active channels.. maybe 5 secs or so but off-air channels or mheg placeholders.. oof

[20:48:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: I've tuned my channel-change scripts to be as fast as the box will reliably receive the IR signals...

[20:49:31]

justinh:

and this was on the backend machine too, all local stuff

[20:50:38]

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[20:51:00]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: Yikes. Maybe it helps that my backend is 'somewhat' of a beast? Athlon x2 6000 w/4GB ram?

[20:51:05]

justinh:

but for all the whingers, the least people could do is chip in with putting odds & sods of debug code in to find out what the holdups are

[20:51:14]

Heliwr:

hello all, I have a jaunty install set up to use an nvidia gpu but due to an incompatibility with a new motherboard I have to remove the gpu and use the integrated intel graphics. I reset my xorg.conf and the system initially seems to boot ok, but then all of the fonts are tiny to the point of unreadability and when the mythtv frontend starts there are no menu items just a blank screen. Any ideas

[20:51:35]

justinh:

if I ever intend to use livetv in anger, I'd surely put some effort into improving it. It's untenable otherwise

[20:52:00]

Dagmar:

Yes. You've broken your X installation.

[20:52:03]

Dagmar:

That's a distro problem.

[20:52:07]

justinh:

J-e-f-f-A: 512MB athlon 2000XP here. Heh

[20:52:33]

Huijari:

256MB 1,2 GHz celeron 8)

[20:52:42]

Heliwr:

thanks, I'll cross my fingers I get an answer in the kubuntu channel then

[20:52:57]

justinh:

oh don't start. clever will chip in shortly with his 486DX2 specs

[20:53:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: hehehe... ;-) My 1st backend was an Athlon 1800XP with 512MB... hehehehe

[20:53:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

(and that's probably faster than clever's fastest machine... )

[20:53:55]

justinh:

all the motherboards I currently have with enough pci slots can only take a 2Ghz CPU max. meh

[20:54:21]

kormoc:

He only got the DX2 last week

[20:54:26]

AndyCap:

justinh: a situation unlikely to improve as time goes by

[20:54:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: They make a PCIe -> 4xPCI adapter box (kinda like a 'toaster'), but it's like $300 USD... yikes...

[20:54:55]

AndyCap:

J-e-f-f-A: ooh, the cut the price?

[20:55:22]

justinh:

I keep meaning to stock up on spares :P

[20:56:20]

justinh:

well, I spose I could manage with 3 PCI slots, but putting dvb-t tuners so close together might not be a good idea unless I really go to town on the cooling

[20:57:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

199 euros... http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/pci-express-to-p . . . -p29809.html

[20:57:21]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: would you mind, when you have a chance, to playback an MKV/H264/AC3 video and see if the audio still plays when you FFWD/REW?

[20:57:36]

AndyCap:

[20:57:39]

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[20:57:48]

oobe:

sphery, thanks that worked it built fine after using find . -name 'Makefile' -delete && svn revert -R .

[20:58:02]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: you may need to let it FFWD/REW for a few seconds to hear the audio playing

[20:58:06]

sphery:

elmojo: meaning you're playing it and you get audio, then you ffwd/rew, then when you play again, you get no sound?

[20:58:13]

elmojo:

no

[20:58:24]

AndyCap:

J-e-f-f-A: now, that was much cheaper. :)

[20:58:30]

sphery:

meaning it plays audio /while/ ffwd'ing?

[20:58:32]

jduggan:

2009-09–30 21:58:16.015 Registering Internal as a media playback plugin.

[20:58:32]

elmojo:

sphery: it's actually playing the audio while FFWD/REW

[20:58:32]

jduggan:

Floating point exception

[20:58:34]

jduggan:

yay

[20:58:39]

elmojo:

sphery: yes

[20:58:41]

sphery:

ahh, that's not fun

[20:58:45]

elmojo:

no it's not

[20:58:54]

AndyCap:

max 38W, hmm, wonder how much the tuner cards suck up.

[20:59:16]

sphery:

elmojo: you don't have PulseAudio configured, do you (like through redefining ALSA's default device)? It's known to cause audio muting issues.

[20:59:20]

elmojo:

these MKVs don't use positionmaps so it uses libav seeking

[20:59:40]

elmojo:

I removed Pulse Audio a long time ago

[20:59:55]

AndyCap:

haha, they're using dvi connectors, this can't go wrong. :)

[21:00:06]

sphery:

hmmm... no ideas, then

[21:00:54]

elmojo:

we definitely have an issue with the Internal player cleaning up things after a seek is performed

[21:01:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

AndyCap: Their 'ATX' version is up to 500w – 299 euros.

[21:01:11]

elmojo:

doesn't always happen

[21:01:26]

AndyCap:

J-e-f-f-A: yeah, I think I'll just get the bare kit.

[21:01:27]

J-e-f-f-A:

AndyCap: And the 'little' one I'll bet has a 'power brick' like a laptop...

[21:01:52]

AndyCap:

since that's 199, and I can mount it somewhere with a psu

[21:02:11]

AndyCap:

maybe some other piece of ikea furniture

[21:02:20]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A: that depends on whether you count machines that technically arent his

[21:02:23]

AndyCap:

to match the frontend. :P

[21:03:19]

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[21:04:43]

sphery:

elmojo: if you create a ticket, you might want to reference http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6916 and that you're using svn rev <whatever> where <whatever> should be > r21946

[21:04:47]

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[21:05:00]

wagnerrp:

AndyCap: its not big enough to mount the boards opposite each other on the same piece of furniture?

[21:05:13]

sphery:

elmojo: that way, maybe markk (who last looked into it) will see it and look into it.

[21:06:40]

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[21:06:48]

elmojo:

sphery: k

[21:07:49]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: well, I probably should keep the backend out of the living room. and no, there's not room in the box. http://imagebin.org/65931

[21:09:05]

wagnerrp:

theres plenty of room there if you rearrange things

[21:09:20]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: that's a big if. :-P

[21:09:53]

wagnerrp:

put the PSU on the bottom, strap the hard drive to the side, and the two boards higher up on the opposite walls

[21:09:54]

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[21:10:25]

wagnerrp:

.... of course that board doesnt seem to have a PCIe slot, so the discussion is moot

[21:11:09]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: oh, but it does. :P a single pcie 1x

[21:11:45]

elmojo:

sphery: btw, feel free to close http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7164

[21:12:09]

wagnerrp:

you would have to figure out a way to mount those cards stably too, might just be able to cut off the backplane from that case and bolt it to the inside of the box

[21:12:32]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: I could lose the drive entirely since I'm not going to boot windows 7 any more.

[21:12:39]

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[21:13:05]

wagnerrp:

AndyCap: might want to talk to GreyFoxx... apparently hes managed to boot Windows over ATAoE

[21:13:11]

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[21:13:36]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: heh, I'd have to buy coraids initiatior then I think. iscsi is free though

[21:13:48]

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[21:14:58]

AndyCap:

ah, no, it's free. :) http://winaoe.org/

[21:15:38]

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[21:15:55]

meshe:

windows is bad for your health

[21:16:07]

AndyCap:

gpxe is cool, but I haven't worked up the guts to replace my regular pxe rom

[21:16:38]

AndyCap:

And I've already bricked one intel mobo. :P

[21:16:43]

j-rod:

gpxe makes life for virtual machines much better

[21:16:58]

j-rod:

or rather, for installing virtual machines from a network install tree

[21:17:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

AndyCap: if you've got deep pockets, this box adds 7 PCIe slots via one PCIe x8 slot in the host computer... http://www.crypticglobe.com/pcie/item?id=1

[21:17:07]

AndyCap:

j-rod: heh, but it's hardly a daring act to replace the gpxe module in the vm

[21:17:25]

AndyCap:

J-e-f-f-A: yeah, magma has stuff for deep pockets too.

[21:17:28]

j-rod:

yeah, not as adventurous as flashing the bootrom on your nic or mobo. :)

[21:18:03]

AndyCap:

j-rod: maybe I should see if the flash software is memdisk compatible. amiflash is not. :P

[21:20:46]

sphery:

elmojo: I left it open because I thought one of the devs asked you to open it.

[21:21:20]

elmojo:

sphery: gnome42 asked but I brought it up cause he was working on something that appeared very similar

[21:22:02]

sphery:

well, I'll let him decide whether to keep it or not

[21:22:07]

elmojo:

k

[21:24:03]

j-rod:

sphery: dude, clearly, you need to set your audio output device when you get 'please add channels'.

[21:24:12]

sphery:

elmojo: it may actually be a bug with the "Browse all channels" stuff, which should still allow you to see what's on other channels.

[21:24:14]

** j-rod shakes head **

[21:24:28]

sphery:

playing Guitar Hero Metallica?

[21:24:57]

elmojo:

sphery: I can see the other channels

[21:25:24]

iamlindoro:

I can see my toes

[21:25:38]

elmojo:

:)

[21:26:01]

elmojo:

I can browse the other channels it just won't change channel to them

[21:26:15]

sphery:

oh, then it's definitely a bug

[21:26:33]

sphery:

probably that the Browse All Tuners wasn't set up to override the "Avoid conflicts"

[21:26:38]

wagnerrp:

man... seriously, put those shoes back on

[21:26:55]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: do you by any chance know if the audio thread is supposed to continue running while FFWD/REW a video?

[21:27:06]

** sphery should probably look at that, now, since that understanding might make fixing it /much/ easier. **

[21:27:15]

iamlindoro:

No, it's supposed to be muted AFAIK

[21:27:33]

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[21:27:49]

iamlindoro:

though bizarre stuff happens when pulse is on the machine IIRC

[21:28:05]

j-rod:

dear lennart: wtf.

[21:28:19]

iamlindoro:

j-rod: What'd he do?

[21:28:25]

j-rod:

wrote pulse

[21:28:37]

iamlindoro:

ah, heh

[21:28:53]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: pulse is not installed but the libraries exist

[21:29:02]

elmojo:

almost certain I'm using pure Alsa

[21:29:12]

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[21:29:29]

elmojo:

did you mean volume "muted" or the audio should pause/stop?

[21:29:52]

** j-rod going home. swears he'll work on some mythtv code tonight... **

[21:30:01]

iamlindoro:

Audio is muted during ffwd/rewid, and restored when returned to normal playback

[21:30:12]

CyberKnet:

I've never heard anyone say positive things about pulseaudio

[21:30:25]

elmojo:

k, thanks

[21:30:33]

iamlindoro:

np

[21:30:49]

wagnerrp:

CyberKnet: its a 'neat little tool' and it certainly has its uses

[21:31:04]

wagnerrp:

but it was added as a layer on top of ALSA without full ALSA emulation

[21:31:21]

wagnerrp:

and it is unneeded in nearly all circumstances

[21:31:32]

CyberKnet:

only ever caused me headaches with Myth

[21:31:56]

wagnerrp:

there are only a handful of things that it can do that you couldnt do with ALSA directly

[21:32:16]

wagnerrp:

and those remaining can probably be done by one of the other sound servers in existence

[21:35:51]

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[21:36:09]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v gbee

[21:36:17]

gbee:

"Freeview said the helpline was receiving about 200 calls a minute" heh

[21:36:36]

dustybin:

gbee: my myth box is fine, i havent re-tuned

[21:37:07]

iamlindoro:

Guess that means it'll be fine forever then

[21:37:40]

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[21:37:50]

dustybin:

i think mythtv must have some intelligent tuning code built in

[21:38:04]

wagnerrp:

tuned?

[21:38:20]

wagnerrp:

i mean theres 'optimize_db.pl' or something like that

[21:38:21]

gbee:

nah, you just haven't tried to view the channels which moved

[21:38:56]

dustybin:

eeek 5 doesnt work

[21:39:20]

** Dagmar howls and rocks back and forth. **

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[21:39:43]

dustybin:

its time to run mythtv-setup and control it via vnc :D

[21:40:17]

wagnerrp:

does mythwelcome allow access to mythtv-setup?

[21:40:56]

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[21:41:05]

Dagmar:

why would it?

[21:41:35]

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[21:41:37]

dserban:

So, just for completeness, last night with me freaking out about the transcoder not being able to stream etc... Well I fixed it. Seems that the Default storage group didn't have a directory assigned to it. I assumed default was... well ... default :). Stupid learning curve...

[21:41:39]

wagnerrp:

so people dont have to whip out the keyboard, or use VNC, to get into it

[21:42:26]

wagnerrp:

might be an interesting improvement

[21:42:49]

wagnerrp:

have mythtv-setup put some lock on the database, and trigger a restart of all running backends over the backend protocol

[21:43:02]

wagnerrp:

have then wait until the lock is released before starting back up

[21:43:18]

** dustybin prays that all the channels + icons will remain the same after the re-scan **

[21:43:39]

wagnerrp:

have mythtv-setup ask that, instead of just warning you that the backend is running

[21:44:09]

dustybin:

mythtv-setup should ask if you want to close the backend now, rather than giving a warning message

[21:44:27]

** Dagmar waits a few minutes before preparing a "how to clear stale locks made by mythtv-setup from the database" page on the wiki **

[21:45:16]

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[21:45:22]

Dagmar:

There's no assumption that mythtv-setup has any rights to kill the backend

[21:45:30]

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[21:46:05]

Dagmar:

It should simply warn you because you should know better than to run mythtv-setup with the backend running

[21:46:38]

dustybin:

the amount of times ive run mythtv-setup without closing the backend..

[21:47:02]

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[21:47:16]

dustybin:

its scanning

[21:47:35]

** dustybin feels nervous **

[21:47:51]

dustybin:

i remember the scan always segfaulting a while back

[21:49:16]

jduggan:

gbee, is there any documentation for ITV HD in myth? cant seem to find anything specific

[21:49:20]

dustybin:

if one has antennas from outside plugged directly into TV cards in your server, do you run the risk of zapping your server if a storm occurs?

[21:49:31]

jduggan:

i did the unspeakable and went to trunk

[21:49:47]

jduggan:

dustybin, sure, its a risk

[21:49:52]

dustybin:

eeek

[21:50:00]

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[21:50:12]

gbee:

jduggan: such as? Scan and go ...

[21:50:37]

jduggan:

gbee, my scan doesnt pick out 'ITV HD', does live TV automatically 'hit the red button' if its available ?

[21:50:52]

dustybin:

segfault!

[21:51:09]

gbee:

jduggan: it's there, it just isn't given a proper name, look for 10510 and rename it to ITV HD

[21:51:13]

dustybin:

mythtv-setup: ../../src/xcb_lock.c:77: _XGetXCBBuffer: Assertion `((int) ((xcb_req) – (dpy->request)) >= 0)' failed.

[21:51:21]

jduggan:

dustybin, taskset -c0 mythtv-setup

[21:51:38]

dustybin:

jduggan: it always happens just as it finishes

[21:51:51]

jduggan:

gbee, ok, cool, will look

[21:51:55]

dustybin:

jduggan: what does taskset do?

[21:51:56]

gbee:

as for the red button stuff working, it should work but I've never tried it, it used to work for the channel change with BBC multiscreen

[21:52:29]

jduggan:

dustybin, you got a dualcore/proc backend?

[21:52:52]

Dagmar:

dustybin: Oh come on. You know you want to just blindly run commands given to you by strangers on IRC

[21:52:59]

Dagmar:

Especially when they tell you what they'll do

[21:53:07]

Dagmar:

That one makes your process cherry flavored.

[21:53:12]

Dagmar:

Everyone likes cherry flavoring

[21:53:37]

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[21:54:32]

dustybin:

jduggan: im running a pentium 3.2 HT backend

[21:54:38]

dustybin:

backend / frontend comobo

[21:54:41]

dustybin:

*combo

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[21:55:18]

Dagmar:

God forbid one try `whatis taskset`

[21:55:32]

Dagmar:

You could get The Cancer from that

[21:55:50]

dustybin:

taskset (1) – retrieve or set a process's CPU affinity

[21:56:08]

dustybin:

Dagmar: its not that, i just couldnt be bothered to re-run mythtv-setup :P

[21:56:21]

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[21:56:46]

dustybin:

everything has gone pair shaped, 5 still doesnt work

[21:57:11]

** dustybin goes back to the drawing board **

[21:57:16]

jduggan:

gbee, my scan of astra & eurobird didnt have 10510

[21:57:22]

Dagmar:

Call up the station and ask to speak to technical support

[21:57:27]

jduggan:

LOL

[21:58:21]

justinh:

Dagmar: speak for yerself. Yeuch

[21:58:24]

gbee:

jduggan: it must have missed that mux or the new scanner is ignoring the channel because the video stream is hidden ... same mux as ITV CI (Channel Islands)

[21:58:27]

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[21:58:49]

jduggan:

gbee, i havent scanned since ive ran trunk

[21:59:17]

jduggan:

gbee, i got my channel line up by using scan and teeing into a channels.conf

[21:59:20]

jduggan:

which i then edited

[21:59:22]

jduggan:

and imported

[21:59:28]

gbee:

SELECT name, callsign, channum FROM channel WHERE serviceid='10510';

[21:59:29]

jduggan:

presumably scan would see it?

[21:59:36]

gbee:

can't say

[22:00:15]

justinh:

gonna be ready for future rescans. now I have a mysql script to insert xmltvids back in, then all I need do is set useonairguide to 0 where xmltvid != NULL ;-)

[22:00:24]

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[22:01:07]

jduggan:

gbee, empty, should one scan while its actually broadcasting?

[22:01:09]

gbee:

heh, I have a few channels where I don't see the value in xmltv data but still want them available e.g. the news channels, radio

[22:01:32]

justinh:

gbee: heard once we might one day get xmltv data for those

[22:01:40]

jduggan:

ITV HD:11426:v:0:27500:3401:3402:10510

[22:01:46]

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[22:01:46]

gbee:

jduggan: shouldn't make a difference with trunk, I can't remember what the status quo was with 0.21

[22:01:53]

jduggan:

gbee, im running trunk

[22:02:20]

gbee:

justinh: since I rarely record them I'm happy with EIT for those

[22:02:33]

gbee:

jduggan: but you haven't scanned with trunk

[22:02:56]

** dustybin re-runs scan with taskset -c 0 mythtv-setup **

[22:03:01]

gbee:

you could look at the output of scan, see if it's finding the channel then re-import the channels.conf into trunk

[22:04:25]

jduggan:

gbee, yup i'll try scaning the conf in trunk

[22:04:53]

gbee:

backup the db first

[22:05:04]

justinh:

gbee: I wouldn't mind longer look-ahead for Radio 4

[22:05:14]

gbee:

use the mythconverg backup script!

[22:05:14]

justinh:

heh: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8283452.stm. understatement

[22:06:48]

dustybin:

it didnt crash this time :D

[22:07:11]

dustybin:

its time for a mythfilldatabase, this brings back memories

[22:08:15]

dustybin:

memories indeed: 2009-09–30 23:07:41.030 Error rescheduling id -1 in ScheduledRecording::signalChange

[22:08:21]

dustybin:

o_0

[22:08:39]

gbee:

justinh: considering how painful it was for me, and I like to think I know what I'm doing, I think they screwed this up badly

[22:09:20]

gbee:

even the official 'retune' website was woeful, no details at all

[22:09:48]

jduggan:

hmmmm, flashforward is recording a duplicate on friday night

[22:09:51]

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[22:09:53]

jduggan:

for me

[22:09:59]

jduggan:

of episode 1

[22:10:07]

jduggan:

subtitles then description to match duplicates

[22:10:31]

dustybin:

holy lord, some of my channels have doubled up

[22:11:05]

gbee:

heh, actually, seems they were just very late in launching the site, when I looked earlier it was a simple one-page site – it now looks like this: http://tvretune.co.uk/

[22:11:08]

justinh:

gbee: I feel exactly the same. hordes of misinformation

[22:11:47]

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[22:12:52]

gbee:

that's unbelievable really, I looked at that site at least 2 hours after the changes, they could have launched it a week ago but it was only ready late afternoon?

[22:13:05]

gbee:

muppets

[22:13:26]

gbee:

and their postcode checker errors, not all that surprising, it's using ASP

[22:14:38]

justinh:

gbee: it was down most of the day, I heard

[22:14:46]

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[22:16:34]

** dustybin joins the thousands having tuning problems this evening :D **

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[22:28:35]

sphery:

Seems it's tuning out to be a tough day in the UK for Myth users...

[22:29:54]

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[22:30:15]

wagnerrp:

i got stuck behind someone riding their breaks down a hill, so i coasted about a car and a half behind him

[22:30:32]

wagnerrp:

he started signalling '2...5...' with his hand out the window

[22:30:39]

wagnerrp:

WTF is that supposed to mean?

[22:30:42]

justinh:

ooo crap. somebody nail this guy to a tree: http://mini-itx.com/store/information/mini-it . . . h-how-to.pdf

[22:31:10]

wagnerrp:

is he telling people to use VIA systems?

[22:31:27]

AndrewNC_:

why the hell did nvidia make a seperate X config file (nvidia-settings) instead of enabling them from xorg.conf ???

[22:31:28]

justinh:

the pdf is telling a user to make a script which runs uk_rt to output to a file, then run mythfilldatabase with --file $file. DUH

[22:31:56]

justinh:

chmod +x refresh_mythlistings.sh #fail

[22:32:46]

justinh:

kingsley sawyers is the bloke's name. Somebody send the man a clue

[22:33:14]

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[22:36:00]

Dagmar:

AndrewNC_: Because doing so would incur modifications that would affect more than just the video card itself

[22:36:40]

Dagmar:

...and because they didn't have to do much work to get the same code Windows uses running under Linux.

[22:36:48]

gbee:

AndrewNC_: and distros have a long history of trampling all other xorg.conf and wiping out previous configuration options

[22:36:52]

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[22:37:02]

AndrewNC_:

I think it reasonable to have the SyncToVBlank a recognized xorg.conf setting (and probably enabled by default) but nvidia does not share my view

[22:37:50]

AndrewNC_:

they have other junk like dynamictwinview in there

[22:37:52]

Dagmar:

One could also take the approach that they were trying to discourage Gentoo users who like to go 'round the net copying every config option they see and putting them ALL into the config file

[22:37:58]

justinh:

I think it'd be reasonable to expect all video card manufacturers to have common config option naming. but oh no

[22:38:36]

AndrewNC_:

justinh: I'll start with the little things before I go pie-in-the-sky with shared name conventions :p

[22:38:44]

Dagmar:

Give 'em a binary with sliders and checkboxes that they can't easily configure in the most idiotic way possible, and lives will be saved

[22:39:45]

AndrewNC_:

I'm slightly irritated that I have to run their nvidia-settings util in my oddball kiosk DM script to prevent tearing

[22:39:53]

justinh:

Dagmar: if said binary remembers settings, yay

[22:39:59]

Dagmar:

It does

[22:40:08]

justinh:

if said binary doesn't remember settings, go directly to fail

[22:40:39]

justinh:

I never said it didn't

[22:41:17]

AndrewNC_:

you have to add it to your startup manually though, or they don't get applied

[22:41:25]

AndrewNC_:

at least on FC10

[22:41:28]

AndyCap:

what setttings?

[22:41:32]

Dagmar:

On everything you do.

[22:41:41]

Dagmar:

This is why they give you the -s argument (if I remember correctly)

[22:41:49]

AndrewNC_:

and it would override my calibrated color profile too, peice of junk

[22:41:52]

Dagmar:

You simply invoke it in xinitrc

[22:42:08]

justinh:

nvidia-settings -l last time I had to use it

[22:42:13]

AndrewNC_:

who needs xinitrc? (told ya my config was oddball)

[22:42:16]

justinh:

they prolly changed it

[22:42:28]

Dagmar:

AndrewNC_: ANyone who doesn't want to manually start their X app

[22:42:30]

iamlindoro:

oobe, Flat mode should work for you in any view next time you update it, thank you for the reminder

[22:42:53]

oobe:

cool nice work

[22:43:04]

Dagmar:

Unless you're looking at a blank screen after you start X, there's xinitrc in play

[22:43:10]

iamlindoro:

I live to serve, ask anyone ;)

[22:43:12]

AndrewNC_:

I can live with the binary setting loader, but what kills me is the weird xrandr usage to do non integer refresh rates

[22:43:28]

Dagmar:

...it just may be the one in /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc

[22:43:40]

_ben:

bah, too much beer

[22:43:45]

AndyCap:

AndrewNC_: nvidia settings has source available.

[22:43:48]

_ben:

do i try and re-tune?

[22:43:49]

AndrewNC_:

Dagmar: I manually start X directly and then load a xv wallpaper before continuing on

[22:43:52]

** _ben looks at justinh **

[22:43:56]

Dagmar:

What non-integer refresh rate are you using?

[22:44:15]

Dagmar:

AndrewNC_: You like making your own butter, too?

[22:44:15]

AndrewNC_:

X starts noticably faster, as in instant, but not for everyone

[22:44:35]

AndrewNC_:

Dagmar, nah, friend of mine does that and brings it into work

[22:44:41]

Dagmar:

Ah

[22:44:53]

AndrewNC_:

as for non int refresh, 23.976, etc

[22:45:05]

Dagmar:

You have a _display_ that supports that kind of refresh rate?

[22:45:08]

AndrewNC_:

yes

[22:45:11]

AndyCap:

and Xrandr hack has well, historical reasons.

[22:45:22]

AndyCap:

AndrewNC_: disable dynamic twinview?

[22:45:27]

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[22:46:04]

AndrewNC_:

AndyCap: no, I had to enable it, and I used the standard (IEC is it?) modelines manually defined in order, so I got the 50–60 int mapping to use with xrandr

[22:46:26]

AndrewNC_:

total hack, but it works

[22:47:03]

AndyCap:

AndrewNC_: uh, what?

[22:47:12]

justinh:

_ben: drunk? wait til you wake up tomorrow

[22:47:16]

Dagmar:

Well, we've had computers attached to monitors displaying computery things for about fifteen years or more now

[22:47:34]

Dagmar:

If you cared that much about non-integer refresh rates, you would have said something about it back then.

[22:47:48]

AndrewNC_:

with dynamic twinview, the xrandr reported modes dont specify the actual refresh

[22:48:02]

AndyCap:

AndrewNC_: yes. and that was your complaint right?

[22:48:04]

_ben:

wouldn't say drunk

[22:48:13]

AndrewNC_:

yep :-)

[22:48:22]

AndyCap:

so.. why did you enable it

[22:48:26]

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[22:48:28]

_ben:

but i don't fancy fighting myth for the next few hours :p

[22:48:35]

AndrewNC_:

because without it you can't do non integer refresh rates

[22:48:56]

justinh:

hello everybody thanks for your input on my new theme. I am now deleting everything & smiting you all. goodbye. Oh wait, it wasn't me

[22:48:58]

AndrewNC_:

via any command line util I could find at least

[22:50:11]

Dagmar:

"The XRandR extension is currently being redesigned by the X.Org community, so the refresh rate workaround may be removed at some point in the future."

[22:50:24]

justinh:

hrm. he downloaded stuff from sxc.hu. They're mostly not GPL compatible images on there

[22:50:31]

AndrewNC_:

Dagmar: I recall seeing that along the way

[22:50:36]

Dagmar:

Blame XFree86 for never realizing people might use something other than a computer monitor for a computer output display

[22:50:46]

Dagmar:

Oh wait, that's why it takes _ranges_

[22:50:47]

oobe:

iamlindoro, just tried flat view works well

[22:50:55]

justinh:

iamlindoro: wanna tell him the bad news or shall I? ;-)

[22:50:58]

Dagmar:

Fix yer display's EDID

[22:51:17]

iamlindoro:

justinh, I already got to tell him his theme is GPL whether he likes it or not :)

[22:51:18]

AndyCap:

I suspect something that does 23.976 doesn't know edid. :P

[22:51:20]

iamlindoro:

oobe, cool

[22:51:23]

Dagmar:

If your display admitted to X that it does that weird refresh rate, then you could make X use it

[22:51:27]

AndrewNC_:

I think I read that non int isn't completely unheard of with PC displays, but it is usualy obscured by utilities and UIs

[22:51:50]

Dagmar:

"non int"?

[22:51:56]

Dagmar:

Oh yes

[22:52:02]

AndrewNC_:

AndyCap: it does know EDID, samsung LCD tv

[22:52:04]

jduggan:

gbee, when scanning the transponder for ITV HD it says 'found 86 off-air channels' , i get a choice to delete all, set all invisible, ignore all, i set all 'invisible' which presumably would still display in the db?

[22:52:07]

justinh:

iamlindoro: GPL is no use if the background image isn't allowed to be modified or redistributed. I had to contact people for permission when I used some images from there. Royal pain

[22:52:35]

Dagmar:

AndrewNC_: You can probably tell it to use 23–24 and it's going to pick whatever it can find that fits in there

[22:52:38]

iamlindoro:

justinh, yeah, I know, just saying I've already given him bad news :)

[22:52:44]

justinh:

jduggan: that's generally what invisible means in this context

[22:53:02]

iamlindoro:

justinh, The "All your theme are belong to us" news :

[22:53:03]

iamlindoro:

:)

[22:53:03]

AndrewNC_:

Dagmar, then the refresh wont match the media, which defeats the entire point ;-)

[22:53:06]

justinh:

I'm not signing up to the list just to say that

[22:53:18]

Dagmar:

Since when

[22:53:22]

AndrewNC_:

and it does support 24.0 as well

[22:53:23]

jduggan:

mysql> SELECT name, callsign, channum FROM channel WHERE serviceid='10510';

[22:53:23]

jduggan:

Empty set (0.00 sec)

[22:53:34]

Dagmar:

Check what your EDID is actually saying the monitor can do

[22:53:37]

jduggan:

justinh, itvhd isnt getting in there :S

[22:53:42]

justinh:

don't like the background anyway. too fiddly

[22:54:16]

justinh:

I dunno, maybe you have to scan fer it when it's actually on :P

[22:54:50]

AndrewNC_:

I don't recall that EDID reports all the modes, but the setting is displayed on the device when I change it, and works fine, these are standard hdmi modelines

[22:55:04]

jduggan:

justinh, thats what i thought, gbee seems to think otherwise

[22:55:08]

justinh:

as for when, could be anybody's guess. I heard nasty things about them reverting to SD during ads & STB users having to go into the interactive stuff to make it work again

[22:55:09]

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[22:55:34]

justinh:

maybe it changed. haven't kept an eye on it

[22:55:42]

AndrewNC_:

EIA/CEA-861B is the standard

[22:56:07]

Dagmar:

So use those standard HDMI modelines then

[22:56:15]

AndrewNC_:

I am ;-)

[22:56:50]

Dagmar:

So then you don't have a problem

[22:57:01]

sphery:

okolsi: I'm never going to look into one of your bugs, again. I found a different bug in testing the patch for yours, then found another issue while testing the patch for the 2nd bug... Way too much work for a 1-line patch.

[22:57:13]

AndrewNC_:

no, I don't, just a wish that one particular tool worked a little better

[22:57:25]

Dagmar:

UTSL

[22:57:50]

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[22:58:47]

justinh:

btw, we forgot to set fire to http://www.gunaxin.com/new-mythtv-interface-preview/2424

[23:00:20]

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[23:00:44]

wagnerrp:

of course that was proclaiming the new UI back in late 2008, was Terra even functional back then?

[23:02:10]

justinh:

worry there is the emphasis on improvements which are still just glints in people's eyes. and I've NO idea where they got them from

[23:03:22]

justinh:

it was well hidden though, only found it again while looking for something else

[23:03:47]

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[23:05:42]

justinh:

just thought. if there's any flak/PR disaster about mythui, just blame me publically.

[23:06:24]

AndrewNC_:

wow, animated transitions? I missed that somehow... :p

[23:06:30]

sphery:

I thought everyone was blaming iamlindoro for all the mythui issues?

[23:06:32]

justinh:

I distracted the mythui developer with my stupid questions too often, get out of jail card :D

[23:06:41]

Dagmar:

Do you have any artist's mark that we'll need to embed in the goatse easter egg?

[23:06:58]

iamlindoro:

I heard I designed a UI that is totally blocking and is totally based on none of the improvements that came before

[23:07:01]

Dagmar:

It shows up full screen on Sundays if you press '5'.

[23:07:05]

iamlindoro:

I know it's true, I read it on -users

[23:07:30]

sphery:

well, if you hadn't designed a slow UI for MythVideo, you wouldn't have to take the abuse.

[23:07:36]

justinh:

send em round here. I'll set my dog on em

[23:07:39]

iamlindoro:

yeah, I'm filled with shame

[23:07:43]

justinh:

and he'll win them over with his antics :D

[23:07:52]

AndrewNC_:

it is slow so that you can appreciate all the detail

[23:08:00]

justinh:

exactly

[23:08:04]

iamlindoro:

sphery, I like your Soviet Russian version of Planet Earth

[23:08:22]

iamlindoro:

"Solar Sea"?? WTF?

[23:08:22]

iamlindoro:

;)

[23:08:23]

justinh:

and because I never did the fades between images, if it was any faster it'd be like a blipvert ffs

[23:08:31]

sphery:

iamlindoro: Now all we have to do is go in and change all the code that you didn't write, but that was already there and just happened to be the code you used in your UI...

[23:08:37]

AndrewNC_:

sphery: soviet earth, sounds interesting, link?

[23:08:47]

sphery:

oh, wait... Did I just say that you didn't cause the slowness?

[23:08:48]

sphery:

oops

[23:08:55]

AndrewNC_:

everything looks like a tractor?

[23:08:58]

justinh:

sphery: no, I explained it

[23:09:05]

iamlindoro:

sphery, ssshh, people are liable to go looking for a rope if you talk that way

[23:09:12]

justinh:

it's slow so as not to cause fits because I never did a crossfade effect

[23:09:17]

Dagmar:

Can that be done now, by the way? Would it be possible to create static transision screens?

[23:09:22]

sphery:

ah, yeah

[23:09:26]

Dagmar:

Like blipverts, but with more unsettling images in them?

[23:09:53]

justinh:

Dagmar: not with the current code, no. images flip betwixt

[23:10:22]

Dagmar:

Ah shucks

[23:10:27]

justinh:

it'll need a lot of TLC to change that

[23:10:29]

sphery:

iamlindoro: it's not Soviet Earth... It's just the only Planet Earth we poor folk without fancy-schmancy cable subscriptions can get...

[23:10:30]

Dagmar:

There really _was_ about to be a goatse easter egg

[23:10:41]

sphery:

iamlindoro: we just happen to live in 2 different worlds

[23:10:43]

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[23:10:48]

sphery:

or Earths as the case may be

[23:11:09]

iamlindoro:

Two different Planets..es...

[23:11:15]

sphery:

yeah...

[23:11:29]

justinh:

Dagmar: 1. it'll have to be threaded – so that precludes me doing it

[23:11:42]

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[23:11:52]

sphery:

fortunately, I have bridged the digital divide, so I have digital TV /and/ interwebs access

[23:12:17]

justinh:

2. in theory it'll involve twice the amount of screen redraws currently done, so will need a couple of niggly bugs squished to make that more efficient first anyway

[23:12:41]

justinh:

or.. timers. threads again :-\

[23:13:40]

Dagmar:

You say screen redraws like you're having to manually copy the ~2mb region of memory yourself

[23:14:11]

justinh:

Dagmar: you wouldn't believe what an impact even adding a few more redraws means right now

[23:14:32]

Dagmar:

Well, frankly I'm wondering why things didn't switch to using librsvg, but that's me

[23:14:54]

justinh:

because even using that qt renders the svg to bitmaps first

[23:15:15]

justinh:

it doesn't do them natively til 4.6 – whenever the hell that's coming

[23:17:24]

justinh:

when I was experimenting with blurring a while ago, the code was drawing each button icon only 4 times (using offsets, very hackish) and it was noticably slower

[23:17:48]

justinh:

normal use was nippy fast, but the fade transition felt like watching paint dry

[23:18:01]

sphery:

4.6 does native SVG?

[23:18:06]

justinh:

granted that was on shitty intel hardware..

[23:18:12]

wagnerrp:

looks like SGU starts friday

[23:18:15]

justinh:

sphery: on the timetable apparently

[23:18:19]

sphery:

cool

[23:18:25]

sphery:

wonder how slow that will be, though

[23:18:28]

justinh:

sphery: just like their mad-ass annimation stuff

[23:18:42]

justinh:

which according to the demo vids is super fast

[23:18:47]

sphery:

would it allow us to have animated flames on themes?

[23:18:52]

AndrewNC_:

will the frontend reconnect to lirc on a USR1 signal?

[23:18:54]

sphery:

then people will /finally/ be willing to pay for the themes

[23:19:16]

sphery:

AndrewNC_: pretty sure it won't--just does a theme reload

[23:19:26]

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[23:19:42]

jams:

doesn't even do that with trunk

[23:19:50]

jams:

it's broken

[23:20:07]

justinh:

so no, I'm not convinced another 'few' redraws won't represent a performance loss in noticable terms :-(

[23:21:01]

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[23:21:19]

justinh:

Dagmar: you just have to see how sucky the alphapulsed mythtv logo is in GANT on some systems. it's puzzling

[23:21:42]

Dagmar:

I know what it looks like and I know how badly it goes off the rails with some things

[23:21:56]

justinh:

no modern system should have issues blitting a small bitmap at varying transparency, hell even if it's redrawing everything onscreen at once

[23:22:03]

Dagmar:

Remember, I was the one saying "man this is really screwing up the fading" using nVidia's magic deinterlacer and s-video output

[23:22:12]

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[23:22:12]

sphery:

jams: any idea when it broke? just a Qt4 thing?

[23:22:49]

justinh:

and I've seen the inside of the gl painter a bit now.. there's no reason it should be slow. so wtf

[23:23:14]

Dagmar:

Maybe time to run a profiler over it

[23:23:19]

justinh:

not that I'm a code expert by any means but it's not doing anything weird. it all makes sense

[23:23:52]

jams:

sphery- it happened early on, so it's either qt or ui

[23:24:06]

jams:

haven't made time to fix it yet

[23:24:11]

justinh:

wasn't it a bit of both? the USR1 thing I mean

[23:24:38]

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[23:24:41]

jams:

i'm guessing it's more UI

[23:25:11]

jams:

it sees the signal,but complains about a running thread or something of that nature

[23:25:32]

justinh:

Dagmar: basically every image drawn is just pulling a texture & drawing a rect with it. that's it

[23:25:57]

sphery:

jams: seemed to reload for me... the segfault after I hit Esc to the "no backend running" dialog wasn't ideal, though

[23:26:25]

jams:

oh maybe it's been fixed recently

[23:26:38]

sphery:

oh, and by "reload", I mean the screen flashed around--I didn't actually try changing XML in the theme to see if it's picked up

[23:27:39]

Dagmar:

justinh: Okay that IS wierd because I've done more complex things with Gtk::Perl

[23:27:43]

sphery:

jams: ah, threading issues, though... this time: (process:9704): GLib-WARNING **: g_main_context_prepare(): main loop already active in another thread

[23:27:50]

jams:

there you go

[23:27:59]

sphery:

so it's all dependent on what's happening

[23:28:02]

jams:

thats the error I get

[23:28:17]

sphery:

yeah, that one killed my UI

[23:28:21]

sphery:

now I have to kill the proc

[23:28:30]

jams:

heh..one way to force a reload

[23:28:49]

sphery:

true... It does result in reloading the theme--after I restart it after I kill it

[23:29:07]

sphery:

seems the kill -s USR1 was a bit superfluous, though :)

[23:29:16]

justinh:

Dagmar: and the other stuff is just run on a loop which cycles the alpha value. should be easy as pie

[23:29:33]

justinh:

Pulse() IIRC :)

[23:29:49]

jams:

well when it works it's superusefull to themers

[23:30:10]

Dagmar:

Ohhh

[23:30:20]

justinh:

maybe there's some weird opengl thing which magically makes stuff slow if you dont pay attention to it

[23:30:29]

Dagmar:

I have an idea

[23:30:42]

Dagmar:

so, sigusr is being used to trigger the redraw?

[23:30:46]

justinh:

AFAICT the actual redraw itself seems to be what's slow

[23:31:23]

sphery:

justinh: so we don't support PulseAudio, but we do support Pulse video?

[23:31:54]

justinh:

I realise now there's a danger of cross-purposes in these 2 conversations.. heh

[23:32:10]

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[23:33:30]

sphery:

gbutters: Can you post your svn revision to your ticket ( #7218 ), please? There were several changes that could have affected that in recent commits. Thanks.

[23:34:00]

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[23:34:05]

sphery:

I guess I am assuming that you were also the reporter of that ticket...

[23:34:06]

Dagmar:

justinh: If there's no restriction on how often it's triggered like before with it just "updating as fast as it can go" then it's probably tripping on it's own feet

[23:35:54]

gbutters:

sphery: Yes and done

[23:36:03]

Dagmar:

Either way, I'll have to look after I get this qt4 build sorted

[23:36:44]

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[23:36:59]

gbutters:

sphery: it has been reproduced by iamlindoro

[23:37:04]

iamlindoro:

sphery, though I am able to reproduce w/ current trunk

[23:37:17]

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[23:37:21]

iamlindoro:

and am having a look now

[23:37:32]

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[23:38:19]

iamlindoro:

gbutters, K, it's not a widget issue

[23:38:36]

iamlindoro:

gbutters, nor does it appear to be a painter issue-- it's the way ti's called in the plugin

[23:39:00]

iamlindoro:

gbutters, Check out the edit metadata screen in mythvideo

[23:39:07]

iamlindoro:

and type a really long screen into the subtitle textedit

[23:39:09]

iamlindoro:

er string

[23:39:28]

sphery:

gbutters: ah, ok... thanks--especially since it seems I just had you do extra unnecessary work. :)

[23:40:07]

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[23:43:30]

gbutters:

I was able to reproduce in the video edit metadata screen http://imagebin.ca/view/SEmiJz.html

[23:43:42]

gbutters:

iamlindoro: ^^

[23:44:14]

iamlindoro:

gbutters, try the subtitle field please

[23:44:22]

gbutters:

sphery: not a problem

[23:44:27]

gbutters:

iamlindoro: ok

[23:44:30]

iamlindoro:

gbutters, hmmm

[23:44:38]

iamlindoro:

gbee, Weird, now I *can't* in the player field

[23:44:50]

iamlindoro:

er gbutters

[23:45:01]

iamlindoro:

In fact, can't anywhere but in mythnews

[23:45:43]

iamlindoro:

Could be one of my changes didn't get backed out

[23:45:46]

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[23:46:18]

gbutters:

iamlindoro: samething does not show until you save the change and go back into edit metadata again

[23:46:41]

iamlindoro:

gbutters, ok, will dig more

[23:47:03]

AndrewNC_:

nice, I'm getting good at "identify the commercial narator" Adam West does the new lendingtree spot

[23:47:03]

iamlindoro:

something about setting the initial state, then

[23:49:01]

gbutters:

iamlindoro: I more thing why does it not remember where you were in the list after editing the metadata? It drops back at the top of the list

[23:51:03]

justinh:

AndrewNC_: as in MAYOR Adam West? ;-)

[23:51:37]

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[23:56:14]

iamlindoro:

gbutters, It was causing some problem, but I can't find/remember it any more for the life of me, so I'll fix that now

[23:56:48]

gbutters:

iamlindoro: ok

[23:57:44]

iamlindoro:

gbutters, fix for that committed

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