Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, September 28th, 2009, 00:14 UTC

[00:14:00]

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iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/pbb_buttons.png

[00:41:32]

sphery:

nice

[00:43:42]

iamlindoro:

thanks, fiddly stuff now for that screen

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[00:48:29]

wagnerrp:

bah... went away for another long period and left my mouse unplugged... i really need to stop doing that

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[00:49:35]

iamlindoro:

I wish the BBC RSS thumbnails weren't so repulsive

[00:50:17]

wagnerrp:

you know, i bet if i just set it on the base every time i left the computer, i wouldnt have problems with the contacts corroding and it not wanting to connect

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[01:35:47]

skymythpl:

Anyone have experience increasing resolution using the new flowplayer? When I increase above the standard 320, flowplayer says it cannot find the video, and ffmpeg doesn't seem to be running

[01:36:06]

skymythpl:

but I can run what the ffmpeg command line would look like, and it works no problem

[01:36:19]

skymythpl:

bitrate and audio bitrate changes seem to work just fine...

[01:36:50]

iamlindoro:

I run at 480, nothing special needed, works great here

[01:36:53]

skymythpl:

And by "cannot find the video", I mean the "200: Stream not found" error

[01:39:19]

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[01:39:27]

skymythpl8:

sorry about that... back now

[01:39:42]

skymythpl8:

if anything came back in last few minutes, I missed it

[01:50:19]

sphery:

skymythpl8: 09.27 21:36:50 <+iamlindoro> I run at 480, nothing special needed, works great here

[01:50:25]

sphery:

that's the only thing in there

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[02:00:58]

skymythpl8:

ah k

[02:01:03]

[R]:

wow... coreavc can play the 10.mpg hdpvr sample file on my 2.16ghz celeron laptop

[02:01:05]

skymythpl8:

@sphery thanks

[02:01:09]

[R]:

i bet it'll work on my mythbox

[02:01:22]

skymythpl8:

hrm

[02:01:42]

skymythpl8:

iamlindoro – what are the specs of the backend processing the flv?

[02:01:52]

skymythpl8:

wondering if it's an "I'm not ready" issue

[02:02:00]

wagnerrp:

skymythpl8: the specs?

[02:02:00]

skymythpl8:

mine is AMD X2 7850... should be enough

[02:02:07]

skymythpl8:

hardware... sorry

[02:02:14]

wagnerrp:

far less than you have

[02:02:39]

wagnerrp:

it just encodes to flash, i believe thats sorenson, doesnt take much

[02:03:04]

skymythpl8:

sure, it also has to decode the h264 coming in... but still... shouldn't be a problem

[02:03:05]

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[02:03:10]

skymythpl8:

hrm

[02:03:11]

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[02:03:24]

skymythpl8:

anyone know where errors concerning this would be?

[02:03:35]

skymythpl8:

apache logs show nothing, mythbackend logs show nothing

[02:03:36]

wagnerrp:

what frequency is the 7850?

[02:03:39]

sphery:

skymythpl8: he's running a Q6600, IIRC

[02:03:44]

sphery:

he = iam

[02:03:57]

skymythpl8:

2.8

[02:04:17]

iamlindoro:

Q9650 on the BE

[02:04:23]

iamlindoro:

(Q6600 is the dev machine)

[02:04:59]

wagnerrp:

a 2.8 phenom MIGHT have the guts to do full bitrate hdpvr output

[02:06:06]

skymythpl8:

it's not close to full bitrate, shouldn't be the issue... i'm grasping at straws, though

[02:06:29]

skymythpl8:

anyone know where useful logs to debug this would be? apache, mythbackend show nothing useful or related to this

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[02:11:02]

mangus580:

evening

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[02:25:37]

dserban:

When I use mythtv-setup, and use the channel editor, is there a way to delete ... say a bunch of channels? Or tag them and then hit D?

[02:29:37]

sphery:

you can delete them all or one at a time

[02:29:45]

sphery:

using d to delete one at a time

[02:29:54]

sphery:

can't delete some sub section of them, though

[02:29:59]

dserban:

rough... 300 to delete :(

[02:30:13]

dserban:

hope I don't have to do it again heh

[02:33:55]

skymythpl8:

mythweb is pretty good for that

[02:34:26]

skymythpl8:

you can select a bunch

[02:34:30]

sphery:

I don't think mythweb allows you to delete them

[02:34:34]

sphery:

can edit them, though

[02:34:55]

skymythpl8:

you can delete

[02:35:10]

sphery:

ah, trunk mythweb allows delete, not -fixes

[02:35:11]

skymythpl8:

settings / tv / channel info / left column

[02:35:14]

skymythpl8:

ah

[02:35:14]

skymythpl8:

sorry

[02:35:17]

jst_home:

phpMyAdmin is your friend :)

[02:35:24]

skymythpl8:

talking trunk in users :) oops

[02:35:37]

skymythpl8:

@jst_home indeed ;)

[02:36:14]

RyeBrye:

The DB still has no foreign key constraints, right?

[02:36:15]

sphery:

trunk talk is fine--as long as everyone's on the same page

[02:36:31]

sphery:

nope, no foreign key constraints except in MythWeather

[02:37:02]

RyeBrye:

so, yeah, before you delete willy nilly make sure you know what might also be pointing to that you need to delete if you hit the DB at the DB level

[02:37:07]

mangus580:

I love phpMyAdmin :-)

[02:38:19]

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[02:42:44]

dserban:

heh

[02:43:22]

dserban:

the mysql command line is sexier. I'm just afraid of myth. It's so... like BSD. I understand what it does, but it beats me like a dirty stepmother.

[02:44:46]

mangus580:

any of you guys use a FlyVideo LR50 capture card?

[02:58:31]

skymythpl8:

anyone know where logging pertaining to flash video transcoding/prep (new player, flowplayer) in SVN mythweb would lie? Apache and MythBackend logs show nothing useful.

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[03:01:10]

sphery:

skymythpl8: as it's just a separate process whose stdout/stderr are redirected to /dev/null, you'll likely have to edit the command line and possibly some other surrounding stuff in MythWeb's php

[03:01:58]

skymythpl8:

ah

[03:02:30]

skymythpl8:

any thoughts on how to do that??? more of your oblivious code-hacker than a real php/perl dev

[03:03:44]

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[03:04:02]

sphery:

skymythpl8: er, the perl it seems... modules/stream/stream_flv.pl

[03:04:16]

skymythpl8:

also, if this helps, this is where it's looking for the flv when it fails: http://[ip addy]:80//pl/stream/4920/1254106500.flv

[03:04:32]

sphery:

yeah, that's good

[03:04:47]

skymythpl8:

even the double forward slash after the port #?

[03:05:05]

sphery:

doesn't matter

[03:05:34]

skymythpl8:

ok

[03:05:44]

sphery:

I'm thinking, though, that you may need to delay the player's looking for the stream because your backend may be taking too long to transcode it

[03:05:51]

sphery:

don't know how you'd do that

[03:06:02]

skymythpl8:

hrm

[03:06:27]

sphery:

and even if you did it, it would only work allow you to see that it works--it wouldn't be usable, though, because you'd quickly catch up to the end.

[03:06:45]

sphery:

if my suspicion of the problem is actually the problem

[03:07:32]

sphery:

note, though, I didn't pay attention when you were talking about your video codec/bitrate/resolution and your system specs, so ignore me if you're sure it can encode in faster than real time

[03:11:20]

skymythpl8:

i am sure it can encode better than realtime

[03:11:25]

skymythpl8:

have tested a few times

[03:11:44]

skymythpl8:

hacking away @ code now, will report back ;)

[03:12:29]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you think there would be any demand for a curses backend interface (like the frontend interface)?

[03:14:23]

sphery:

what interface do you need for the backend (other than the frontend)?

[03:16:12]

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[03:16:24]

wagnerrp:

ooh... some home tinkerer managed to build a HERF gun capable of stalling out electronic ignition in cars

[03:16:30]

wagnerrp:

my dad would enjoy one of those

[03:17:46]

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[03:29:16]

sphery:

heh, watching the series finale of Prison Break and there's a commercial for Cisco WebEx and one of the people on the commercial is The General (General Kranz), one of the main protagonists in the show.

[03:30:01]

skymythpl8:

ok

[03:30:11]

skymythpl8:

have a handle on the flashplayer issue

[03:30:35]

sphery:

cool, what was it?

[03:30:42]

skymythpl8:

redirected stderr to a log file

[03:31:19]

skymythpl8:

ffmpeg wants height to be a multiple of 2

[03:31:38]

wagnerrp:

Kranz is a main protagonist? i stop watching for a season or two and they add new good primary characters?

[03:32:09]

wagnerrp:

skymythpl8: yeah, thats a limitation of most DCT-type video codecs

[03:32:22]

skymythpl8:

and when a 528x480 file is resized to 640x[x], [x] ends up being 581.81818181...

[03:32:29]

sphery:

don't they need even-pixeled width, too?

[03:32:36]

skymythpl8:

indeed

[03:32:57]

skymythpl8:

but in this case height is the problem, as it's autocalculated (not that I know how, I haven't dug that deep into the Perl code)

[03:33:19]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, Krantz (sp, before) is a season 4 protagonist

[03:33:40]

sphery:

not that I'm saying it's worth watching the last couple seasons. :)

[03:33:41]

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[03:33:47]

skymythpl8:

It must be passing 581.8181... to ffmpeg (or just cutting off decimals), because rouding (to 582) would satisfy the requirement

[03:34:15]

skymythpl8:

does xris do the coding for the flash stuff too? does he watch this channel or should I shoot him off an e-mail?

[03:34:41]

sphery:

the flash stuff was a proof of concept and the idea was to not add new stuff for it

[03:34:56]

sphery:

but to instead do it right before making it really useful/usable

[03:35:19]

sphery:

though kor moc may actually add something if there's good reason

[03:35:43]

sphery:

so you're really having it scale it to larger than the original size?

[03:35:44]

skymythpl8:

i think this is more in the "bug" bucket than the feature request one... am I way off on that?

[03:36:08]

skymythpl8:

yeah, but it happens rarely because most of my stuff is HD

[03:36:19]

sphery:

right, but the whole thing was considered a "use at your own risk, completely unsupported, only to see if it's feasible to do it right" thing

[03:36:52]

sphery:

i.e. if you want it different, you can edit yours different kind of thing

[03:37:14]

sphery:

but, like I said, kormoc might actually make changes if you ask

[03:37:28]

sphery:

just don't do it on a ticket in Trac--mention it in here sometime

[03:38:25]

skymythpl8:

adding a quick perl (maybe 20 chars of code) solved the problem

[03:38:33]

skymythpl8:

s/perl/perl round/

[03:38:33]

wagnerrp:

seems my NBC and one of my PBS stations is wrong

[03:38:56]

wagnerrp:

should be 1 line of code

[03:39:14]

wagnerrp:

h = round(h/2)*2

[03:40:18]

skymythpl8:

does default perl have math::round extension???

[03:40:26]

wagnerrp:

no idea

[03:40:37]

wagnerrp:

(not a perl programmer)

[03:41:40]

skymythpl8:

nor am I, but a quick google suggests not

[03:42:52]

wagnerrp:

now this doesnt make sense...livetv, that channel works fine

[03:42:55]

wagnerrp:

why did it fail to record

[03:43:19]

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[03:49:11]

skymythpl8:

ok, shot off an e-mail to kormoc, thanks for the pointer sphery

[03:49:13]

skymythpl8:

later all

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[03:50:04]

iamlindoro:

Well I know *I* love unsolicited e-mails from people about unsupported features

[03:51:24]

sphery:

well, thanks to the spammers, it's much easier to ignore an e-mail than someone mentioning your nick in channel when you're actually around/talking

[03:51:30]

sphery:

so maybe that's for the better :)

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[04:17:54]

wagnerrp:

i seem to have lost a hard drive

[04:18:10]

sphery:

did you look under the couch?

[04:18:28]

sphery:

hope you didn't have a lot on it

[04:18:31]

[R]:

wagnerrp: did it melt?

[04:18:33]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but i forgot to check between the cushions

[04:18:53]

sphery:

also, make sure it's not just a bad cable--I've had that happen before

[04:19:09]

wagnerrp:

no, the drive is gone, i physically dont know where it is

[04:19:28]

wagnerrp:

it itself was a backup drive

[04:19:32]

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[04:19:39]

wagnerrp:

an old 300GB, that i was using as a test mythtv box

[04:19:40]

sphery:

really, so my joke was closer to reality than my sincere comments

[04:20:00]

jason is now known as Guest70629

[04:20:03]

sphery:

I lost a CD drive that way... still don't know what happened to it.

[04:24:46]

wagnerrp:

i just found my long lost CF card

[04:24:49]

wagnerrp:

still no hard drive

[04:33:04]

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[04:36:53]

** iamlindoro helpfully offers wagnerrp one of the stack of 1TBs on the desk **

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[04:39:42]

wagnerrp:

yeah, ive got a bunch more 300/320s in a drawer next to me

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[04:51:42]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/plot.png http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/cast.png

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[04:57:06]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/textentry.png

[05:02:39]

oobe:

hey guys i just sort of made my own theme http://insidiousramblings.com/blog/?p=40 im pretty happy with it check it out let me know what you think

[05:02:42]

dserban:

cat /proc/loadavg

[05:02:49]

dserban:

... whoops

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[05:08:28]

oobe:

iamlindoro, im using alot of your work

[05:08:49]

iamlindoro:

well, indirectly-- he used a ton of my work, and then you used his ;)

[05:09:02]

iamlindoro:

But that's life in the big city I guess

[05:10:02]

oobe:

i dont see the harm in it every theme i install has some things i want and others i dont

[05:10:19]

oobe:

so i just hacked it together

[05:10:38]

iamlindoro:

It's fine, Graphite is GPL, people are free to do as they wish

[05:10:52]

iamlindoro:

Now if they tried to do so with my next theme, we'd have a problem :)

[05:11:08]

oobe:

the title is meant to implie its justed modded versions of other ppls stuff

[05:11:15]

wagnerrp:

wasnt it font issues or something?

[05:11:47]

oobe:

if who tried to do what with your next theme?

[05:11:58]

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[05:12:08]

iamlindoro:

If anyone tried-- it's not going to be GPL

[05:12:30]

iamlindoro:

and won't have a license that allows modification or derivative works

[05:13:10]

iamlindoro:

and yeah, will require one to buy a font to use it properly

[05:13:19]

[R]:

good luck stopping people from doing that

[05:13:26]

oobe:

lol

[05:14:19]

iamlindoro:

I'd expect the community to treat people stealing from non GPL work the same way they would treat people stealing GPL work, ideally

[05:14:56]

iamlindoro:

I'll share it freely, but that means following the terms of the license, and that means no making/distributing your own mod

[05:15:15]

iamlindoro:

Realistically, I don't care what someone does at home, but I will care if people decide to start sharing their mods

[05:22:21]

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[05:24:07]

oobe:

iamlindoro, do you want me to take that link down

[05:26:38]

iamlindoro:

oobe, not at all

[05:26:52]

iamlindoro:

oobe, Like I said, you're deriving from a theme derived from a GPL theme-- totally acceptable :)

[05:27:25]

oobe:

i like it

[05:28:04]

oobe:

i put everything like about themes in there like how Mepo displayed the file size of each recording

[05:28:32]

wagnerrp:

well this is interesting... this antenna only works well with my hand holding the base

[05:28:53]

dserban:

wagnerrp, lol

[05:28:55]

[R]:

wagnerrp: did you try putting aluminum foil on it?

[05:29:51]

wagnerrp:

[R]: ... need to do that, i dont think the wire grid i used is having the intended effect

[05:30:07]

wagnerrp:

plus i bet the balun is probably crap

[05:30:33]

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[05:45:58]

wagnerrp:

well i just reconnected the balun, running much shorter wires, and making sure they were of exactly equal length

[05:46:05]

wagnerrp:

that made a huge difference

[05:46:16]

Wicked:

hello all. running 0.21-fixes svn and i have a backend/frontend machine..then i have a slave backend running on my server that i want to pawn commercial transcoding too.......it worked for a while but tonight i noticed that mythcommflag was running on the master backend again...and not the slave like it should be....i see this in my slave backend log http://pastebin.com/m6c7f6988

[05:46:33]

mzb:

wagnerrp, in lieu of balun try 3–4 loops of 8cm diameter as close to aerial as possible

[05:47:17]

sphery:

Wicked: does the slave backend have capture cards?

[05:47:31]

sphery:

Wicked: seems it doesn't according to your logs

[05:47:33]

Wicked:

no. the only capture card i have is on the master backend.

[05:47:41]

sphery:

Wicked: so, you shouldn't be running mythbackend

[05:47:43]

sphery:

run mythjobqueue

[05:47:51]

Wicked:

the slave has never had a capture card

[05:47:52]

wagnerrp:

looks like i can only pick up UHF channels

[05:48:01]

Wicked:

hmm

[05:48:02]

wagnerrp:

i get full signal on all nearby UHF stations

[05:48:07]

wagnerrp:

but no lock on any VHF stations

[05:48:10]

sphery:

and a backend without defined capture cards is completely unsupported

[05:48:26]

mzb:

wagnerrp, eg: http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/28_Elli . . . 907(009).jpg

[05:48:35]

sphery:

and you should run mythjobqueue, instead (because that's supported, it works, and it takes 1/10th (no exaggeration) the memory)

[05:48:40]

mzb:

(loops under the 200MHz aerial)

[05:48:48]

Wicked:

hmm. it has worked for a while.

[05:48:50]

mzb:

(I won't call it a VHF aerial;))

[05:49:06]

Wicked:

and the how to i followed did not mention to just run mythjobqueue

[05:49:06]

sphery:

Wicked: never been guaranteed to work

[05:49:19]

Wicked:

hmm i see

[05:49:20]

sphery:

that's because most people don' know how to do it right :)

[05:49:30]

Wicked:

is there a how to for this?

[05:49:39]

wagnerrp:

mzb: the balun is to connect two balanced sides of the antenna

[05:49:53]

wagnerrp:

Wicked: just run mythjobqueue instead of mythbackend

[05:49:54]

mzb:

ok

[05:49:59]

Wicked:

ah

[05:50:11]

sphery:

mythjobqueue HOWTO: Where your start script says, "mythbackend", change it to "mythjobqueue". :)

[05:50:15]

wagnerrp:

how would you hook up two sides of an antenna to a loop?

[05:50:32]

mzb:

shield to one, core to the other

[05:50:51]

Wicked:

sphery, hehe ;o

[05:50:53]

mzb:

ie: I never got around to getting a balun, the loops do the job

[05:50:58]

sphery:

Wicked: basically, you do the exact same setup you would do for a remote backend (which you've already done when setting up your tunerless backend), then you run mythjobqueue

[05:51:08]

mzb:

...as recommended by VK7ZRO (Dad;)

[05:51:16]

clever:

sphery: mythjobqueue cant handle -d, which some init.d scripts will use to daemonize it

[05:51:26]

Wicked:

sphery, gotcha

[05:51:47]

sphery:

clever: so why do you need -d? Why not just nohup and redirect?

[05:51:53]

mzb:

clever and Wicked in the same # ... now I'm getting confused ;)

[05:52:11]

clever:

sphery: the exiting script you just told him to edit may be using -d

[05:52:15]

Wicked:

hehe

[05:52:22]

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[05:52:24]

clever:

existing*

[05:52:25]

sphery:

yeah, you might actually need to remove some command-line args

[05:52:42]

clever:

and add in redirects and nohup's and &'s

[05:52:46]

clever:

not that simple:P

[05:52:50]

sphery:

and redirect stdout/stderr (and, depending on your script, possibly stdin)

[05:53:19]

Wicked:

where can i tell if it working or not? just make a new job and see what happens?

[05:53:31]

sphery:

yeah, but all that's shell/distro stuff, so left as an exercise to the reader :)

[05:53:33]

Wicked:

i kinda recall there was a setting somewhere to set where the jobs run

[05:53:33]

clever:

Wicked: see if the mythjobqueue process is running and check its log file

[05:53:46]

clever:

thats in mythtv-setup

[05:53:52]

Wicked:

clever, i ran it from cli and it did not error. it said it connected to the database

[05:53:57]

Wicked:

ah ok

[05:54:07]

sphery:

Wicked: yeah, the same setting that was used to allow mythbackend to process jobs is used for mythjobqueue

[05:55:03]

Wicked:

ah ok. i just requeued a job and gonna see if its using the slave

[05:55:37]

Wicked:

is that error normal though in the pastebin i posted?

[05:55:48]

Wicked:

the INSERT INTO inuseprograms one

[05:56:39]

sphery:

it happens

[05:56:46]

sphery:

I think it was fixed in trunk

[05:56:54]

Wicked:

ah

[05:56:55]

Wicked:

ok

[05:56:56]

sphery:

the fix was to not print the error

[05:57:08]

[R]:

haha

[05:57:14]

[R]:

i love those kinds of fixes

[05:57:31]

sphery:

i.e., it's not really an error, but an unhandled condition or something (a missing else or else if or whatever)

[05:57:39]

wagnerrp:

oh PBS for shame....

[05:57:45]

wagnerrp:

youre letter and pillar boxed

[05:57:54]

Wicked:

hmm i queued a job...but its not starting..

[05:57:58]

Wicked:

just saying queued

[05:58:14]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 66323#366323

[05:58:45]

wagnerrp:

Wicked: did you go into mythtv-setup, and enable those jobs to run on that backend/jobqueue?

[05:58:54]

sphery:

so, missing && in an else if

[05:59:06]

sphery:

shouldn't really hurt anything, though

[05:59:51]

sphery:

wagnerrp: did you figure out how long it takes to pick up a new job?

[05:59:53]

Wicked:

woot. seems its working now

[06:00:06]

wagnerrp:

no, but its somewhere around a minute

[06:00:15]

sphery:

was it just the checks every minute but it seemed to be longer because of the waiting for updates stuff?

[06:00:17]

wagnerrp:

at the peak

[06:00:24]

Wicked:

so i should change the init script that i used for my slave backend to just start mythcomflag apposed to mythbackend?

[06:00:28]

sphery:

yeah, I saw in the code it looks once/min

[06:00:36]

wagnerrp:

worst case is around a minute

[06:00:38]

sphery:

but you had said it seemed to take way longer

[06:01:01]

sphery:

(at least, IIRC)

[06:01:04]

wagnerrp:

not sure what i was complaining about at that time

[06:01:11]

wagnerrp:

but it must have been caused by some other issue

[06:01:11]

Wicked:

err. mythjobqueue

[06:01:14]

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[06:01:16]

Wicked:

not mythcommflag

[06:01:26]

sphery:

Wicked: right

[06:01:39]

Wicked:

awesome. thanks for the info guys :(

[06:01:41]

Wicked:

err :)

[06:01:53]

sphery:

but, as clever mentioned, it doesn't take -d argument, so you may need to edit the script a bit

[06:02:03]

sphery:

i.e. use & at the end of the command line to background it

[06:02:05]

clever:

i usualy run 'mythjobqueue -v jobqeue' when trying to figure out where its going wrong

[06:02:05]

clever:

gives alot of usefull info

[06:02:43]

sphery:

and, depending on your init script, might need to use nohup as the actual command with mythjobqueue as the first arg

[06:02:46]

Wicked:

ah hmm

[06:02:55]

sphery:

it seems to take -l, so you can use the same logging

[06:03:28]

Wicked:

hmm. it has no way to list cli options?

[06:03:34]

Wicked:

no man page...and --help does nothing

[06:03:41]

Wicked:

or -h

[06:03:51]

clever:

--help works on mine

[06:04:18]

sphery:

--help works on trunk and -fixes

[06:04:23]

Wicked:

mine just says

[06:04:24]

Wicked:

Valid Options are:

[06:04:24]

Wicked:

-v or --verbose debug-level Use '-v help' for level info

[06:04:34]

clever:

i also see -l -p and -d

[06:04:35]

Wicked:

and im using -fixes svn as of ...maby a month ago

[06:04:40]

sphery:

and, it seems -v is the only option--the logging option is only on trunk

[06:04:49]

sphery:

so you do need to redirect output if you want logs

[06:05:19]

Wicked:

ah

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[07:21:33]

[R]:

wtf

[07:21:38]

[R]:

thats the second commerical for zap2it i've seen

[07:23:28]

Gumby:

I seem to be getting pretty poor quality from a lot of channels (however not all) using mythtv and my pvr-150. Using the same cable direct to the TV yields a much better picture. Anyone have any recommendations why? I have tried both scanning and downloading the channel list from zap2it

[07:24:04]

[R]:

channel lists have nothing to do with quality

[07:24:10]

[R]:

it has to do with your tuner

[07:24:51]

Gumby:

[R]: why would the Q be different between channels? Also, I dont recall this tuner having poor quality before

[07:25:07]

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[07:25:16]

dserban:

Gumby, do you have a stb?

[07:25:48]

Gumby:

dserban: my landlord does yes

[07:26:03]

Gumby:

I believe the cable is split before the STB.

[07:26:08]

Gumby:

if that matters

[07:26:19]

dserban:

Gumby: que? Is your tuner hooked up ... err? So how do you change channels?

[07:26:35]

dserban:

oh i see

[07:26:50]

Gumby:

dserban: the STB has nothing to do with my myth setup other than its on the same coax 'network' so to speak

[07:27:02]

dserban:

n/m. what it usually is, is that a splitter will degrade the signal.

[07:27:32]

Gumby:

true yes. but the same cable gets a great signal on the tv's tuner

[07:27:34]

dserban:

Right. I lost reception on one of my stb's due to the splitter. 40% of the channels worked perfectly, the rest were crap. That's why I was asking.

[07:27:50]

dserban:

Aye, well. Then I don't know what your problem is.

[07:27:54]

Gumby:

hehe, ok

[07:27:56]

[R]:

Gumby: your tvs tuner might be better than the pvr150's

[07:28:10]

clever:

ive never gotten good quality out of the pvr150 tuner

[07:28:10]

Gumby:

[R]: true. but only for some channels?

[07:28:22]

[R]:

depends on which channels

[07:28:27]

[R]:

and how your tujner works

[07:28:28]

Gumby:

I have a 250, maybe I will try that one

[07:28:34]

gandalfcome:

Using mytbuntu 9.04 and epgdata grabber I setup my machine. I didn't run mythfilldatabase but used mythweb to add xmltvid's for my channels with Mythweb. When running mythfilldatabase now I get strange errors and no guide data(http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1582250). I also use over the Air Eit. I don't know if that's bad.

[07:28:54]

[R]:

gandalfcome: you can't mix and match EIT and grabberes

[07:29:04]

Gumby:

I've always noticed that my tvs tuner is better than the pvr x50, however its never been this poor before

[07:29:38]

gandalfcome:

[R]: there was a checkbox there and I thought I check it ;-)

[07:29:47]

[R]:

gandalfcome: ?

[07:29:58]

Gumby:

the cross source EIT checkbox I assume

[07:30:10]

[R]:

that has to do with using eit across multiple tuners

[07:30:13]

gandalfcome:

Gumby: yes as far as I know

[07:30:15]

[R]:

not about using eit with a grabber

[07:30:38]

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[07:30:40]

gandalfcome:

Gumby: so basically dont check this box if using grabbers

[07:31:31]

gandalfcome:

Gumby: ?

[07:32:35]

gandalfcome:

So how do I reset my mythbuntu? I tried deleting my 2 capture cards but now I have encoders 4 and 5. Is there a possibility to start from scratch with mythtv?

[07:32:42]

Gumby:

gandalfcome: [R] probably knows more about this than I do. I've used it with satellite before but I think that is different than what you are trying to do

[07:32:55]

Gumby:

gandalfcome: you could drop and recreate the database

[07:33:20]

gandalfcome:

Gumby: is that the only place for configuration?

[07:33:47]

[R]:

it doesnt matter what number encoder they are

[07:34:02]

gandalfcome:

[R]: I just want listing data. I checked that box as I assumed it would complement the listings, but it seems that is a bad thing.

[07:34:25]

[R]:

gandalfcome: as i alredy told you

[07:34:30]

[R]:

[12:28:54] [R] gandalfcome: you can't mix and match EIT and grabberes

[07:34:40]

gandalfcome:

[R]: yes I know, but if these numbers are increasing, I wonder what other settings have been kept

[07:35:16]

[R]:

nothing is being "kept"

[07:35:24]

[R]:

but the database keeps indexes that dnt ge treused

[07:35:31]

[R]:

so if you use 1, then it uses 2 next

[07:36:08]

gandalfcome:

[R]: I understand that. I won't do it again. Is there a possibility to include a little warning (for noobs like me) that if you use a grabber you should not check that box?

[07:36:30]

gandalfcome:

[R]: so this is the primary key I guess (the encoder thing)

[07:36:33]

[R]:

it dindt break anything

[07:36:36]

[R]:

you just dont do it

[07:37:12]

gandalfcome:

[R]: well I can't update my database now with the grabber, it gives me errors at least. is that related to eit?

[07:37:18]

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[07:37:27]

[R]:

what error?

[07:37:36]

[R]:

and no... i just said enabling eit won't break anyhting

[07:39:11]

gandalfcome:

[R]: Driver error was [2/1062]: QMYSQL3 when updating the myfilldatabase. Thats what happened the first time and now it segfaults: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1582250.

[07:39:40]

[R]:

i dont see any erors there

[07:40:13]

gandalfcome:

[R]: driver error?

[07:40:22]

[R]:

i dont see any erors there

[07:40:24]

gandalfcome:

it segfaulted after the last line in the pastebin

[07:40:40]

[R]:

no?

[07:40:46]

[R]:

i dont see anyhting about any segfaults

[07:41:23]

gandalfcome:

[R]: well it gave a segault to stderr which I didnt redirect and printed that out to console: Segmentation Fault.

[07:41:36]

[R]:

oh... well thats long after it updates the db

[07:42:12]

gandalfcome:

[R]: I see. Ill delete the videosources and set it up again without the checkbox. is that what you recommend?

[07:42:31]

[R]:

that might work

[07:42:43]

[R]:

but like i said, eanbling eit isn't gonna break it

[07:43:14]

gandalfcome:

well my mythfilldatabase doesnt update data.

[07:43:34]

[R]:

well the output lookis fine to me

[07:46:03]

dserban:

how do I invoke imdb.pl to get info on videos?

[07:46:09]

gandalfcome:

I'll play around more tonight. thanks for the help.

[07:46:23]

dserban:

there's some settings there in the setup, just wondering how to invoke it.

[07:47:22]

dserban:

I got it. :)

[08:00:14]

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[08:06:35]

justinh:

you no longer invoke imdb.pl

[08:06:49]

justinh:

not allowed to use it. Breaches their T&Cs

[08:07:21]

dserban:

Yep I read that. tmdb.pl being used

[08:11:51]

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[08:47:39]

justinh:

Grrr. Adobe AIR sucks

[08:47:49]

justinh:

infact, everything Adobe do sucks on linux

[08:48:43]

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[08:50:59]

NineTeen67Comet:

I was just sitting here watching YouTube, thought there might be a way do to it in MythTV (MythBuntu on my boxes) and found MythTube. Is it a pretty reliable way to watch YouTube in MythTV?

[08:51:56]

justinh:

mythbrowser

[08:52:10]

justinh:

mythtube never really got off the ground. and now it's dead

[08:52:30]

NineTeen67Comet:

justinh: I'll see if I got that enabled (mythbrowser) ..

[08:53:15]

justinh:

course then you have to put up with the bloody awful flash video stuff. Another reason Adobe should GDIAF

[08:53:38]

justinh:

yay cross-platform stuff made easy! Oh, it's flash. F*** OFF

[08:54:11]

NineTeen67Comet:

Yeah .. lucky for me I'm not too picky about quality (I need to see it and hear it and they better be in sync, but it can be a little grainy)

[08:54:18]

NineTeen67Comet:

lol

[08:55:09]

justinh:

it's not so much the quality as the way it f***s up your machine. Oh and good luck watching the video without tearing

[08:59:33]

justinh:

oh and if you think your system is fast enough to play $video, think again. not in flash it ain't

[09:03:23]

justinh:

heh. really like Charlie Brooker's Grauniad column today

[09:03:45]

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[09:10:39]

justinh:

oh ubuntu f*** off with your keyring nonsense

[09:10:53]

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[09:11:21]

justinh:

I do not want or need hand-holding w.r.t. password storage. Just store my passwords. I don't want to enter a password to retreive my passwords

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[09:48:51]

Dibblah:

justinh: Hmm. Can't remember how, but... I don't get that prompt any more.

[09:49:01]

justinh:

hrm. the amount of cross-platform stuff now depending on flash-based installers is worrying

[09:49:21]

justinh:

Dibblah: I've stuffed it. Made the password blank

[09:49:35]

Dibblah:

Yeah, that may have been it.

[09:49:49]

justinh:

asking you for a password to retreive a password kind of defeats the f***ing point

[09:50:02]

justinh:

s/kind\ of/TOTALLY

[09:50:25]

laga:

no

[09:50:26]

laga:

;)

[09:50:45]

Dibblah:

One keyring to bind them?

[09:50:51]

justinh:

muh, somebody might break into my house, turn on my linux box & be able to log into my MSN & twitter accounts! Oh NOES!

[09:51:24]

Dibblah:

that explains your strange twitfacebook status.

[09:51:44]

Dibblah:

twitbookmyface, even.

[09:51:59]

justinh:

storing passwords unencrypted/unfettered by default is NOT going to breed a clueless load of linux sysadmins with bad habits

[09:52:19]

justinh:

whatever the reason chosen to annoy everybody with this keyring shite is

[09:52:20]

Dibblah:

No, because users don't become sysadmins.

[09:52:49]

justinh:

so do you think they do it just to be annoying? Cos it's working :)

[09:53:35]

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[10:01:01]

justinh:

hello Dave. it looks like you're trying to remember a password. Do you want me to store the password for you? Enter your new 30 character password here. Are you sure you want to use only 30 characters? Retype the password 5 fives to confirm

[10:02:57]

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[10:10:55]

jduggan:

True Blood coming to channel 4

[10:11:02]

jduggan:

:D

[10:13:03]

** justinh sits down & sings "we buy any car. DOT COM. we buy any car. DOT COM." to himself **

[10:17:20]

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[10:24:14]

jduggan:

justinh: haha, i tried selling a car there

[10:24:17]

jduggan:

or atleast

[10:24:21]

jduggan:

i got a quote

[10:24:31]

jduggan:

you get more money selling in scrap

[10:24:32]

jduggan:

:P

[10:25:29]

justinh:

it's the very latest brain worm, that jingle. no escaping it

[10:26:06]

justinh:

watched Top Gear on Dave via mythtv yesterday, fell asleep & woke up with the ads on. couldn't find the remote fast enough

[10:28:48]

justinh:

starting to think the answer to my flash-based troubles might be to run windows in a VM

[10:29:00]

justinh:

or just leave a real windows machine on at home

[10:40:25]

justinh:

arghhh ****ing stinking USELESS ADOBE

[10:43:43]

justinh:

I think the most annoying person in this channel (not currently here) works at Adobe. What a coincidence

[10:57:19]

Dibblah:

No, I don't.

[10:57:23]

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[10:58:31]

justinh:

lol. you ain't he, is why

[11:00:34]

Dibblah:

And clever is here...

[11:00:38]

Dibblah:

;)

[11:01:56]

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[11:05:24]

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[11:21:32]

justinh:

hmmm. wonder if wednesday is also the day freeview is switching to 8k modulation from 2k

[11:30:02]

justinh:

hope they don't bugger up the tables in a way which works fine for STBs but not mythtv. wouldn't be at all surprised if they did

[11:44:00]

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[11:50:13]

Spida:

how much cpu/gpu would I need to playback unencrypted hdtv? my pentium e2200 with intel onboard graphics gets stuck every 0.5–2 secs... can't be that much more...

[11:50:18]

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[11:51:07]

lyricnz:

Spida: it's your graphics card, not cpu

[11:52:37]

justinh:

no, on intel gpu you rely on the CPU to do the decoding

[11:52:39]

lyricnz:

e2200 is 2.2Ghz with 800Mhz bus and 1MB L2 cache. I think that should be fine for HD, with a decent nvidia card, and binary drivers.

[11:52:57]

lyricnz:

justinh: doesn't that depend on which drivers you run?

[11:53:03]

lyricnz:

and whether it's configured?

[11:53:03]

justinh:

nah

[11:53:12]

justinh:

no HD acceleration with intel

[11:53:24]

justinh:

and HD != HD

[11:53:29]

** lyricnz read "GPU" **

[11:53:31]

lyricnz:

oops

[11:53:42]

lyricnz:

Buy a nvidia card, that cpu will be fine

[11:54:04]

laga:

lyricnz: do you have any evidence that the intel GPU is not fast enough?

[11:54:13]

laga:

or are you just spreading FUD?

[11:54:19]

laga:

especially without having seen frontend logs?

[11:54:32]

lyricnz:

laga: only that every time I tried it, it sucked, and nvidia solved it instantly.

[11:54:46]

** lyricnz has onboard intel gfx on one of his frontends, with similar chip **

[11:54:49]

justinh:

if you've got Xv working with the video driver (and it's hard not to with Intel) then CPU speed will still matter

[11:55:24]

lyricnz:

justinh: agree "matter", but 2.2Ghz should be enough?

[11:55:25]

justinh:

so here you need to define WTF you mean by 'HD' when you say a) it'll play fine and b) it won't play fine

[11:55:36]

justinh:

depends entirely on the material

[11:55:39]

justinh:

HD != HD

[11:55:49]

lyricnz:

yeah, different bitrate, resolution, etc

[11:56:06]

justinh:

do you mean 10mbit/sec MPEG2 'HD' or 18mbits/sec h.264 ?!

[11:56:26]

** lyricnz notes that the FTA digital tv in NZ appears to be mpeg4 or similar. **

[11:56:40]

justinh:

prolly h.264

[11:57:04]

lyricnz:

Yeah, it's only plain old mpeg2 here in Australia – so they can't use any of our (cheap) equipment

[11:57:08]

justinh:

in which case you'd be lucky 2.2Ghz is enough

[11:57:17]

lyricnz:

I don't know where Spida is

[11:57:29]

lyricnz:

nz?

[11:57:35]

justinh:

they never say. nor do they say what they mean by 'HD' :P

[11:58:00]

laga:

.de

[12:00:02]

lyricnz:

yeah, ip looks like Mönchengladbach, Germany

[12:00:44]

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[12:00:58]

lyricnz:

which is dvb-t (mpeg2?)

[12:01:20]

justinh:

unlikely to be mpeg2

[12:01:21]

lyricnz:

or does dvb-t carry arbitrary codecs?

[12:01:49]

justinh:

dvb-t, as with all dvb, just carries transport streams

[12:01:53]

justinh:

they could have anything in them

[12:02:17]

lyricnz:

I think I recall having this same conversation with you years ago ;)

[12:02:34]

justinh:

obviously not

[12:02:58]

lyricnz:

heheh, your charm is certainly familiar! (and I mean that most fondly :)

[12:03:17]

** lyricnz had mkrufky to help him get dvb working in the end **

[12:03:21]

justinh:

GDIAF

[12:03:25]

laga:

haha

[12:03:47]

** laga leaves **

[12:03:54]

** lyricnz chuckles **

[12:04:02]

justinh:

good idea

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[12:17:16]

Spida:

lyricnz: yes. germany, with unitymedia cable (dvb-c)

[12:21:13]

Spida:

would a geforce 8400 or 9400 be enough?

[12:21:13]

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[12:22:18]

Spida:

or something even smaller?

[12:23:40]

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[12:24:01]

bsusa:

hello all

[12:24:31]

bsusa:

could someone please assist me on how to change the Bob interlacer to another one in mythtv?

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuarta

[12:43:48]

bsusa:

hello

[12:43:57]

bsusa:

anyone here please

[12:44:20]

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[12:45:41]

Josh_Borke:

i see 210 people in room

[12:45:56]

stuarta:

all waiting for a question to be asked

[12:47:52]

bsusa:

could someone please assist me on how to change the Bob interlacer to another one in mythtv?

[12:48:44]

stuarta:

it's in the setup of the frontend

[12:48:59]

lyricnz:

Spida: I have a fanless 9400 GT which works fine, but I have a slightly faster cpu too – E7300 @ 2.66GHz

[12:49:03]

stuarta:

playback / playback profiles IIRC

[12:49:19]

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[12:53:55]

bsusa:

cool thanks seems to work good now

[12:55:45]

bsusa:

i also have one issue with the sound. When i playback all the videos using the video players directly the video and sounds plays fine, but when i play them in MythTV i get video but no sound.

[12:56:21]

** stuarta suspects you haven't got sound setup correctly in mythtv **

[12:57:31]

Spida:

lyricnz: thx

[12:58:01]

Spida:

i will try a passively cooled 8400...

[12:58:07]

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[12:58:58]

bsusa:

where do you set that in myth tv

[12:59:22]

bsusa:

ive set it all in the players individually they seem to work

[12:59:28]

bsusa:

but not on frontend

[12:59:49]

stuarta:

frontend setup -> playback ...

[13:01:11]

bsusa:

i couldnt find it in there

[13:01:38]

stuarta:

maybe its under general

[13:01:52]

** stuarta vaguely remembers that from last night **

[13:04:19]

bsusa:

not sure have looked through all though options theres no sound settings

[13:05:53]

stuarta:

there is, i changed it last night

[13:06:30]

stuarta:

although it's just on one of the config screens, there's no screen called "sound settings"

[13:07:21]

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[13:09:11]

bsusa:

ty

[13:09:14]

bsusa:

all good now

[13:09:18]

bsusa:

gnight

[13:09:23]

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[13:10:30]

stuarta:

some people just don't look at screens

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[13:25:59]

olejl:

is anyone able to help me figure out why I am not able to conect the FE to the BE?

[13:26:08]

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[13:28:59]

Dibblah:

olejl: What happens?

[13:29:04]

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[13:29:48]

olejl:

nothing happens. My last message on the FE is: 2009-09–28 16:29:31.948 New DB connection, total: 1

[13:30:01]

olejl:

no mythtv gui

[13:30:24]

Dibblah:

-v most

[13:30:36]

Dibblah:

And has it worked previously?

[13:31:07]

olejl:

http://pastebin.com/d24b2b072

[13:31:47]

Dibblah:

has it worked previously?

[13:31:54]

olejl:

no it has never worked, I have always used a single FE/BE computer which has been working great

[13:32:12]

olejl:

recently I bought a new FE computer

[13:32:18]

Dibblah:

Ah :)

[13:32:38]

Dibblah:

You need to enable remote network access to your SQL instance.

[13:33:36]

Dibblah:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=298106

[13:33:56]

olejl:

I can connect to the mysql server from the FE using: mysql -h 192.168.0.4 mythconverg -u mythtv -p

[13:35:22]

olejl:

sorry wrong IP, should be .3 if you are comparing to the log

[13:39:44]

olejl:

This happens on the BE when the FE is trying to connect http://pastebin.com/d51fd0d

[13:41:56]

Dibblah:

Does the backend and frontend version match exactly?

[13:42:12]

olejl:

yes

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[13:50:07]

sphery:

olejl: You're the ATI user from the list, right?

[13:50:45]

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[13:50:46]

sphery:

olejl: What video drivers? ATI proprietary? Are you certain they're properly installed/working? Try: mythfrontend -O ThemePainter=qt

[13:51:34]

bobbob1016_:

Anyone manage to get Uverse boxes to play back MythTV content?

[13:54:44]

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[13:57:11]

DjMadness|Lap:

Hi, i am using the saa7134 driver with DMA sound, however it seams i am unable to change the volume with the frontend, anyone know a solution to this ?

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[14:01:02]

sphery:

DjMadness|Lap: Volume is changed through the sound card mixer, not through the video capture card mixer. The video capture card mixer value is set in the Recording Profiles. The sound card mixer is set during playback using the [,{,F10,Volume Down and ],},F11,Volume Up keys .

[14:01:42]

sphery:

DjMadness|Lap: Though, you can't control volume of digital passthrough except using an external volume script or a patch that re-encodes the AC-3/DTS and "fakes" a volume change.

[14:04:12]

DjMadness|Lap:

hmm... seams i am unable to change volume via alsamixer on the tv card.. theres no "software" volume control ?

[14:04:51]

sphery:

DjMadness|Lap: what type of output? What type of audio (PCM or AC-3/DTS using passthrough)?

[14:05:09]

sphery:

and, again, you don't use the volume on the tv card

[14:05:13]

sphery:

you use the one on the /sound/ card

[14:06:47]

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[14:07:37]

DjMadness|Lap:

All i actually know is i set the output in the backend to /dev/dsp1 (tv card) and in the frontend ive set Alsa:Default using the saa7134_alsa module for sound. (ive tried moving bars on the soundcard to turn up and down in alsamixer, however nothing happens except global volume)

[14:08:17]

DjMadness|Lap:

but mythtv does not even change the global volume. witch would at least be a step in the right direction

[14:08:37]

oobe:

is there anyway to get ttvdb or jamu to add the episode title to the mythvideo metadata description ?

[14:10:48]

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[14:11:51]

RDV_Linux:

oobe MythVideo adds the subtitle (episode) when you do a metadata update. Jamu adds what it parses from the file name, Jamu also has a -F file rename option. Experiment with that one first before doing mass updates.

[14:12:46]

RDV_Linux:

oobe: The file rename will fetch the correct episode name and update the subtitle as well.

[14:12:51]

oobe:

oh ok i didnt know about the -F option does it rename the file or change the way its named in metadata

[14:13:08]

RDV_Linux:

oobe: both

[14:13:27]

oobe:

btw it was just the theme i was using i get episode title and episode name in different theme

[14:14:15]

oobe:

so i made a mistake its all good

[14:14:36]

RDV_Linux:

It also works for movie renaming to a "movietitle (XXXX).ext" format.

[14:16:03]

RDV_Linux:

oobe: Make sure to use the -s simulation option to just experiment on a few files to make sure it works well for you.

[14:16:17]

sphery:

DjMadness|Lap: again, you do /not/ use the tv card's volume... The frontend uses the sound card's volume.

[14:16:41]

oobe:

thanks RDV_Linux

[14:18:53]

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[14:33:11]

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[14:33:48]

Weezey:

I'm having an odd issue where I can watch live tv, do manual recordings but scheduled recordings aren't working.

[14:34:19]

Weezey:

The back end shows that it's changing from doing nothing to recording, but then there's no file created in any of the recording directories

[14:34:44]

Weezey:

I have the same 5 drives/dirs in LiveTV and Default all chmod 777

[14:35:35]

DjMadness|Lap:

sphery: okeys... working on it, clears up a litle :)

[14:35:45]

DjMadness|Lap:

thx

[14:37:58]

lyricnz:

Weezey: tuning timeout?

[14:38:45]

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oobe:

iamlindoro, how do i make it display the episode name in the video-ui.xml i have the episode number but no sub episode title i think it might of been subtitle but that didnt seem to work unless i made a mistake

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Weezey:

lyricnz: I've just enabled logging all, so hopefully it'll tell me more

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[14:59:57]

oobe:

dont worry i got it was subtitle

[15:00:06]

oobe:

just messed it up first try

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[15:11:54]

sphery:

Weezey: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

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[15:27:34]

Weezey:

sphery: thanks, this my recorder backend shows this repeatedly while the web shows that it's recording: 2009-09–28 11:25:33.174 SM(0)::AddFlags: Seen() Match() Wait(Sig,)

[15:27:50]

Weezey:

live tv works fine on any of those channels

[15:28:03]

Weezey:

same with a manual recording too.

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[15:28:18]

Weezey:

it's just scheduled recordings that flop

[15:29:09]

sphery:

Weezey: from that link, "Your input connections configuration is broken. And, yes, you can still record LiveTV this way... "

[15:29:23]

sphery:

meaning the fact that LiveTV works fine is /not/ an indicator that your system is properly configured.

[15:29:23]

Weezey:

sphery: cool, anyway to do that remotely?

[15:30:04]

sphery:

you could use ssh -Y and then start up: mythtv-setup -O ThemePainter=qt

[15:30:23]

Weezey:

cool

[15:30:45]

sphery:

you should really shut down the backend when making the changes, but as long as you restart all backends after the fact (even if they run while running mythtv-setup), it shouldn't hurt anything

[15:30:55]

sphery:

just mandatory that you restart after making these changes

[15:30:57]

Weezey:

I can shut 'em all down.

[15:31:21]

sphery:

and make sure you use the "Delete all" buttons (and not the "on <hostname>" one for capture cards)

[15:31:26]

Weezey:

yep

[15:31:28]

sphery:

otherwise, you won't be fixing anything

[15:31:40]

Weezey:

thanks for the help

[15:32:08]

sphery:

yw... enjoy

[15:33:09]

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[15:36:34]

olejl:

sphery / Dibblah: Sorry, wife decided we had to go shopping. Yes I am the "ATI" user from the list.

[15:37:01]

sphery:

olejl: try the: mythfrontend -O ThemePainter=qt

[15:37:07]

olejl:

the GUI is working if the BE is not running

[15:37:13]

sphery:

if that doesn't work, try: mythfrontend -O ThemePainter=opengl

[15:37:31]

olejl:

then I get the Database setup wiz.

[15:38:10]

sphery:

that's a different GUI, so--though interesting, and potentially important--it doesn't rule out possibility that my suggestion may help

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[15:39:56]

pak00o:

can i change mythprotocl 48 to 45?

[15:40:11]

iamlindoro:

only by rolling back your database and downgrading your copy of myth

[15:40:27]

stuarta:

otherwise it breaks, and you get to keep both pieces

[15:40:43]

pak00o:

ok

[15:40:45]

pak00o:

thats all

[15:40:58]

pak00o:

no mythbox for me xD

[15:41:17]

RDV_Linux:

AndrewNC: You can use Jamu's -MJ option to clean up unused graphics. The first time use the option -MJs which will only simulate the graphic file deletions.

[15:43:58]

olejl:

sphery: In both cases I see the database setup if the BE is stopped. If BE is running nothing happens

[15:44:44]

sphery:

olejl: upgrading from 0.21-fixes to trunk?

[15:44:53]

sphery:

or first-time install or ?

[15:45:00]

olejl:

no, I've been running trunk all the time

[15:45:07]

iamlindoro:

or trying to use some other silly frontend

[15:45:16]

sphery:

so, just the first time you've set up some new host?

[15:45:26]

olejl:

The BE has been running for a year or so, the FE is new install

[15:45:35]

olejl:

sphery: correct

[15:45:35]

sphery:

and separate hosts?

[15:45:49]

olejl:

yes first time with separate host

[15:45:52]

sphery:

and you have no 127.0.0.1 /anywhere/ in your configuration, right?

[15:46:05]

sphery:

i.e. on the master backend, you can't use that anywhere

[15:46:14]

sphery:

and on the remote host, you can't either

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[15:46:33]

sphery:

must be a "real" IP address for backend and master bakcend IP Address

[15:46:34]

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[15:46:41]

olejl:

anywhere is a wide term:)

[15:46:43]

sphery:

and a real IP or hostname for mysql

[15:46:53]

sphery:

anywhere in myth, then :)

[15:47:54]

olejl:

BE: in mythtv-setup I have set the local and MBE to my static IP of the BE

[15:48:24]

sphery:

mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e 'SELECT * FROM settings WHERE data = "127.0.0.1";'

[15:48:30]

sphery:

just to verify

[15:48:40]

olejl:

in the FE I have just setup the same IP address for Database Server Settings

[15:48:41]

sphery:

if not that, I can't think of a reason you'd see the behavior you see

[15:48:45]

sphery:

meaning it's new to me

[15:49:20]

sphery:

and check all of your mysql.txt and config.xml files on your new host to make sure everything is right (and not 127.0.0.1) and ensure they're all fixed

[15:49:30]

sphery:

find them with a locate or find command

[15:49:33]

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[15:49:42]

olejl:

your mysql command doesn't print anything

[15:50:09]

sphery:

good

[15:50:17]

sphery:

that means the backend ip addresses are good

[15:53:49]

olejl:

hmm... thanks anyway. I will continue to see if I can find anything. Probably something obvious once I discover it :)

[15:55:19]

sphery:

I will say that something at the back of my mind says we've seen this before and it was a simple fix, but I can't (and haven't been able to since I originally saw your post on the list) remember what it was.

[15:55:43]

sphery:

not a lot of help, but does provide hope

[15:55:44]

AndrewNC:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Global_notification_specification <--- is this dead?

[15:56:31]

sphery:

didn't even know it was born

[15:56:53]

AndrewNC:

still-born perhpas

[15:56:54]

sphery:

he hangs out here (and on the lists), sometimes, so may want to ask when you see him

[15:57:13]

sid3windr:

looks useful

[15:57:40]

sphery:

based on his page, it looks like there still on his list

[15:57:51]

AndrewNC:

I think KDE has a notification framework, maybe some reuse there

[15:57:53]

sphery:

(i.e. click his name on the page you linked)

[15:58:21]

sphery:

There /will/ be support for global notifications in mythui, though

[15:58:46]

AndrewNC:

would be extremely slick to have out of process notifactions (e.g. Growl on OSX)

[15:58:48]

sphery:

don't know how much of his interactivity ideas will be there (at least initially and if he doesn't submit patches for it)

[15:59:10]

AndrewNC:

yeah, the interactive part is a bit heavy weight

[15:59:35]

sphery:

If you look at the Metallurgy theme, there's a blank spot in it that's meant explicitly for the "future" notification support

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[16:01:25]

AndrewNC:

I looked into whether there was a standard network protocol for Growl style notifications, but it doesn't appear there is

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[16:03:21]

pak00o:

mythbackend recognizes 2 turners, and when i record 1 program i only can jump to 4 channels

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[16:06:34]

sphery:

AndrewNC: might be adaptable for what you want: http://blog.foosion.org/2008/02/15/libnotify-over-ssh/

[16:07:14]

sphery:

pak00o: you need to change tuners

[16:07:38]

sphery:

and, really, you should stay around to get the answer to your question, too

[16:09:40]

sphery:

assuming, that is, that the answer is truly what you seek

[16:11:53]

AndrewNC:

I was looking at this: http://api.kde.org/4.0-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kd . . . ication.html but libnotify seems better suited

[16:13:26]

sphery:

libnotify has a GNOME dependency and there's a fork that has an XFCE dependency

[16:13:37]

sphery:

so don't know how useful it would be for you

[16:13:46]

sphery:

but the idea may work with growl

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[16:16:07]

AndrewNC:

I dont care if it works with growl necesarily

[16:16:25]

sphery:

ah, actually, it's notification-daemon that has the GNOME dep and notification-daemon-xfce is the xfce dep

[16:16:29]

sphery:

http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications . . . -daemon-xfce

[16:16:32]

AndrewNC:

just the ability to send out of process event notifications to Mythfrontend

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[16:16:45]

AndrewNC:

maybe wtih embeded icon image

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[16:21:34]

resno:

I seem to be having a lot of problems getting myth to be stable, is this a common problem with myth?

[16:21:57]

wagnerrp:

no

[16:22:25]

wagnerrp:

not stable, meaning you keep segfaulting?

[16:22:35]

resno:

One day, itll run fine the next a problem will pop up

[16:23:01]

resno:

That seems to repeat every few days

[16:23:19]

wagnerrp:

just any problem? not some specific problem?

[16:23:31]

wagnerrp:

give some examples

[16:24:16]

resno:

Guess part of it my stem from misunderstanding of myths configuration because of my video card.

[16:24:20]

resno:

*tuner card

[16:24:25]

resno:

I have a framegrabber.

[16:24:41]

wagnerrp:

yes, thet is a source of much gnashing of teeth

[16:24:46]

sphery:

^^^ is probably the real problem

[16:25:07]

wagnerrp:

most users have moved on to digital and/or mpeg tuners

[16:25:08]

sphery:

for NTSC, PVR-150 or (analog side of) HVR-1600 will save you /much/ consternation

[16:25:16]

sphery:

exactly

[16:25:47]

sphery:

and you can get an NTSC PVR-150 for $20-$30 these days on ebay (because so many are moving to digital)

[16:25:49]

resno:

And I was taking my frustration out on myth ;)

[16:27:37]

resno:

Whats the best way to stream video from myth? vlc?

[16:27:50]

wagnerrp:

from where to where?

[16:27:55]

wagnerrp:

over what

[16:27:58]

resno:

inside network

[16:28:06]

sphery:

mythfrontend?

[16:28:27]

wagnerrp:

inside network, mythfrontend or a network file system (plus mythrename.pl)

[16:28:30]

resno:

currently, my frontend and backend are the same machine. I would like to watch feed on another machine.

[16:28:40]

wagnerrp:

is this other machine a linux machine?

[16:28:45]

sphery:

real machine or an embedded device

[16:28:49]

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[16:28:58]

resno:

a real pc, could run windows or linux.

[16:29:04]

sphery:

if it's real: "inside network, mythfrontend or a network file system (plus mythrename.pl)"

[16:29:13]

wagnerrp:

ideally, run linux, run mythfrontend

[16:29:32]

wagnerrp:

with 0.22, there exists the option for... run windows, attempt to run mythfrontend

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[16:29:48]

resno:

i imagine its not the best choice yet, though.

[16:29:55]

wagnerrp:

or, run something that has a UPNP client

[16:30:33]

wagnerrp:

or, run mythrename.pl to create links with meaningful filenames, and run anything that talks samba

[16:31:13]

resno:

Ok. Great.

[16:31:30]

resno:

I heard a new version is coming out, would you suggest upgrading?

[16:31:37]

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[16:31:44]

wagnerrp:

is coming out, as in not out yet

[16:31:48]

resno:

I plan on trashing my framegrabber.

[16:31:49]

tmkt_:

sure thing

[16:31:52]

tmkt_:

it looks amazing

[16:31:58]

wagnerrp:

you *can* run trunk, but 0.22 will be out in a couple weeks

[16:32:17]

resno:

Where can I find the upgrades?

[16:32:27]

mkrufky:

is there a to do list on the wiki or somewhere that shows the remaining blocking items for 0.22 release?

[16:32:27]

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[16:32:47]

wagnerrp:

trac has a list of remaining tickets

[16:33:13]

resno:

will .22 have increased system requirements?

[16:33:24]

wagnerrp:

depends

[16:33:28]

mkrufky:

its funny how everytime i entered this room in the past 2 months, its in the middle of a conversation about "how soon will 0.22 be out" ? :-P ... at least it shows that people are somewhat following development and are itching for the next release :-)

[16:33:48]

wagnerrp:

it should have reduced system requirements, but the increased use of metadata in the frontend may cause higher memory usage

[16:34:02]

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[16:34:11]

sphery:

resno: best bet, though, is to wait for release before upgrading

[16:34:15]

sphery:

still some teething pains now

[16:34:22]

resno:

i am in the process of making a new machine to handle all this stuff, so i want to be sure i make a system that will last

[16:34:41]

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[16:35:19]

sphery:

IMHO, you should go for a good high-frequency, low-TDP Core 2 Duo or Athlon* dual core--even if you plan to use hardware video decode, size the system to allow software decode.

[16:36:50]

iamlindoro:

Just in case Fox decides to broadcast an episode of the simpsons locally that sends VDPAU into an endless loop?

[16:36:59]

sphery:

yep

[16:37:15]

sphery:

and because then you're not reliant on code that you can't control...

[16:37:34]

iamlindoro:

But surely such a thing could never happen! ;)

[16:37:43]

iamlindoro:

For the VDPAU giveth, and the VDPAU taketh away!

[16:37:46]

sphery:

but then again, me and RMS both go to the same church

[16:38:02]

resno:

For some reason when I output vga to my screen I get a ghosted box, is there a good card to output hdmi?

[16:38:29]

sphery:

ghosted box?

[16:38:33]

wagnerrp:

do you have DVI?

[16:38:39]

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[16:39:17]

resno:

Tv does not have DVI.

[16:39:22]

wagnerrp:

specifically, does your video card have DVI

[16:39:35]

wagnerrp:

DVI and HDMI are pin compatible

[16:39:44]

wagnerrp:

you can buy a couple dollar adapter cable

[16:40:08]

resno:

why didnt i think of that.

[16:40:24]

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[16:40:38]

resno:

how do you all handle sound output, to get it through the tv?

[16:40:51]

wagnerrp:

HDMI on one, analog on another

[16:40:52]

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[16:41:22]

meshe:

my tv hasn't had any audio come out of it since the day I set it up

[16:41:42]

wagnerrp:

fair enough... analog to a receiver

[16:41:58]

resno:

wagnerrp: thats what i though youd say.

[16:42:09]

meshe:

thats the way I've set it up so far

[16:42:30]

meshe:

i can't stand the audio that comes out of most tv's

[16:42:36]

wagnerrp:

HDMI/DVI/audio/receivers/whatever can cause various problems

[16:42:50]

wagnerrp:

only some computer hardware has the ability to send audio over hdmi

[16:43:11]

resno:

My problem, I wanted to simpfy all those extra machines running, for easier tv watching

[16:43:12]

wagnerrp:

and (probably) no hardware has the ability to send audio over dvi

[16:43:29]

wagnerrp:

and some hdmi receivers are nothing more than passthrough switching

[16:43:38]

wagnerrp:

they will not strip the audio out of the bitstream

[16:43:38]

resno:

Ive seen a few video cards which can send sound over hdmi, but which are linux ready is the question

[16:43:40]

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[16:44:02]

wagnerrp:

ati cards have audio hardware built in

[16:44:06]

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[16:44:08]

meshe:

resno: there's been a ton of discussion about that on the mythtv-users list

[16:44:13]

wagnerrp:

nvidia cards have a spdif input to allow muxing

[16:44:18]

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[16:44:23]

wagnerrp:

onboard nvidia can sometimes use the onboard audio

[16:44:57]

resno:

But I imagine this all still very specific to a certain card.

[16:45:14]

resno:

or motherboard.

[16:45:38]

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[16:47:01]

meshe:

resno: expensive, but: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2007/08/dvi-and-spdif-t/

[16:47:13]

wagnerrp:

any motherboard with an 8 or 9 series nvidia chips should allow HDMI audio

[16:47:40]

wagnerrp:

or you can get that ridiculously expensive box

[16:48:37]

resno:

i want that box now!

[16:48:54]

wagnerrp:

remember, that is SPDIF

[16:49:06]

wagnerrp:

meaning youre limited in the type of audio you can send

[16:49:22]

wagnerrp:

and you may as well just spend $50 on a discrete nvidia card with an SPDIF input

[16:50:30]

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[16:50:35]

resno:

is it safe to assume that linux will support the hdmi sound on the 8 or 9 series nvidia chips?

[16:50:47]

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[16:50:59]

wagnerrp:

with a recent version of the alsa drivers (or a recent kernel)

[16:51:22]

wagnerrp:

i thin 1.0.18 or 1.0.19 was the big revision that brought most people support

[16:51:38]

resno:

Great, Linux gets better with each new version

[16:51:52]

wagnerrp:

that is onboard only

[16:52:08]

wagnerrp:

i dont know what the restrictions for using spdif with a discrete card are

[16:52:10]

resno:

Oh, thanks for making that point.

[16:52:11]

wagnerrp:

ive never looked into it

[16:53:32]

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[16:53:53]

meshe:

resno: my tv has rca inputs for the audio on the computer input

[16:54:25]

resno:

meshe: ah, i see.

[16:54:28]

meshe:

that's probably the easiest/cheapest way to go

[16:55:08]

wagnerrp:

careful though

[16:55:26]

resno:

why do you say careful?

[16:55:40]

wagnerrp:

if you use DVI to HDMI, some video cards will output an audio descriptor in the stream, even if it is otherwise incapable of outputting audio

[16:55:59]

resno:

wagnerrp: why is that a problem?

[16:56:00]

wagnerrp:

the TV will pick up on that and lock the audio to what it expects to get over HDMI

[16:56:12]

wagnerrp:

disallowing you to use the RCA audio inputs

[16:56:19]

meshe:

yeah, i've heard of that quite a bit, another reason why I use VGA

[16:56:42]

wagnerrp:

its easily fixable, you just grab an image of the EDID block

[16:56:49]

wagnerrp:

null the second 128 bits

[16:56:53]

wagnerrp:

and feed it to the driver

[16:57:23]

resno:

this is getting quite complicated...

[16:57:23]

wagnerrp:

that way, it gets all the information about the TV, except additional features like audio support

[16:57:30]

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[16:57:38]

wagnerrp:

this is only a problem with 8-series and newer chips

[16:58:00]

wagnerrp:

my older 6200 didnt have the same issue when using a dvi-to-hdmi and analog audio

[16:58:11]

meshe:

resno: myth setups can get as complicated as you want it to be

[16:58:40]

resno:

i am trying simplify everything for the wife, who just wants it to be stable and work...

[16:58:54]

resno:

we had a commercial dvr, and i am trying to make it work like that

[16:59:10]

meshe:

dvi -> vga for video, analog audio to the tv

[16:59:13]

meshe:

easy :)

[16:59:37]

resno:

:)

[16:59:41]

tmkt:

resno 0.21 does that

[16:59:44]

wagnerrp:

holy crap, thermaltake's weird funky one-sided case is going to cost $700

[16:59:58]

sphery:

one-sided case?

[16:59:59]

tmkt:

in-laws/wife/kids all use mythtv 0.21 without issues

[17:00:04]

tmkt:

nice and stable

[17:00:07]

sphery:

is that like a metal plate?

[17:00:35]

wagnerrp:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/exclusi . . . ssis_unboxed

[17:00:49]

wagnerrp:

yes, there is a big plate on one side of the case

[17:00:58]

wagnerrp:

and then panels boxing in individual components

[17:01:04]

sphery:

resno: I /highly/ agree with tmkt that 0.21-fixes is the way to go for nice and stable. I use 0.21-fixes on my 5 production boxes and only run trunk on my -dev box.

[17:01:39]

resno:

i just installed myth, so I assume I am using the up-to-date stuff

[17:01:48]

wagnerrp:

where did you install from?

[17:01:50]

meshe:

i'll go to 0.22 when i can dist-upgrade to mythbuntu 9.10

[17:02:04]

resno:

repositories-

[17:02:07]

sphery:

wagnerrp: what's the point? Allows you to fry components individually/faster due to lack of airflow?

[17:02:27]

resno:

on ubuntu

[17:02:38]

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[17:02:54]

wagnerrp:

apparently the disks are connected to a giant heatsink, and the rest of the components get dedicated airflow into their own container

[17:02:59]

mag0o:

hmm, i dunno wether to call that case cool or retarded

[17:03:04]

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[17:03:07]

mag0o:

looks silly

[17:04:09]

mag0o:

but, then again, ive never been accused of being fashionably correct either

[17:05:28]

wagnerrp:

im happy with my rather non-descript P182

[17:05:38]

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[17:06:41]

mag0o:

dell gx280 in the playroom and an ibm something-or-other in the living room

[17:08:51]

resno:

is there any advantage to running the backend on a different machine from the front?

[17:09:11]

wagnerrp:

resno: it is far easier to make a small, quiet, diskless frontend

[17:09:30]

wagnerrp:

than a large quiet backend with a crapton of disks

[17:10:14]

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[17:10:37]

meshe:

xfs or ext3 for a 1.5TB drive dedicated to storage groups

[17:10:50]

wagnerrp:

disks make noise, disks suck power, disks impede airflow to the processor, disks make it difficult to make something small and unobtrusive to put in front of the TV

[17:10:59]

wagnerrp:

unless youre doing something like kormoc up there is doing

[17:11:08]

CShadowRun:

resno, mainly people do it for multiple frontends i think

[17:11:31]

wagnerrp:

also, there are other advantages

[17:11:41]

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[17:11:46]

wagnerrp:

separate backends let you put it in a more advantageous position

[17:11:49]

resno:

before, i open up a sea of questions, is this on the wiki somewhere?

[17:12:09]

wagnerrp:

like next to your antenna, or satellite dish, or cable line

[17:12:17]

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[17:12:20]

resno:

i have been trying to convince myself which setup is better.

[17:12:23]

wagnerrp:

so youre not snaking coaxial through the house, with the respective drop in signal quality

[17:12:42]

meshe:

resno: is this your first myth setup?

[17:12:46]

wagnerrp:

(more of an issue for broadcast and satellite)

[17:12:57]

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[17:13:12]

resno:

meshe: yes. its running now. but i am looking at getting new hardware and cant figure out the best way.

[17:13:48]

meshe:

what issues are you seeing?

[17:14:26]

resno:

i want to seperate the two machines. can you stream video to another machine?

[17:14:34]

resno:

as in live tv.

[17:15:02]

meshe:

yes, that's now mythtv handles livetv and recordings

[17:15:44]

resno:

so seperating them, what type of system would the frontend need?

[17:16:04]

meshe:

depends on whether you're playing SD or HD

[17:16:14]

resno:

mainly sd.

[17:16:25]

resno:

maybe an occasional hd, but rarely

[17:16:49]

meshe:

my FE's are 1.7GHz celerons with 1GB ram for pure SD

[17:17:15]

sphery:

"pure SD" :)

[17:17:17]

meshe:

if you want to play any HD you'll need either higher specs or to use hardware decoding (VDPAU)

[17:17:24]

** sphery thinks meshe is quite the sales woman **

[17:17:32]

meshe:

lol

[17:17:51]

meshe:

my frontends would choke badly trying to play HD

[17:17:53]

resno:

i appreciate her sales women skills

[17:18:00]

CShadowRun:

meshe, what about nvidias thing to get the gpu to do the work?

[17:18:09]

meshe:

that's VDPAU

[17:18:11]

sphery:

yeah, just kind of funny--almost sounds like SD is a good thing :)

[17:18:15]

CShadowRun:

ah :)

[17:18:19]

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[17:19:04]

resno:

meshe: so how many tuner cards does your backend have?

[17:19:15]

meshe:

hehe, it's all I have at the moment :) paying for cable HD hasn't been a priority and neither has setting up antennae for OTA

[17:19:30]

meshe:

currently 1 :)

[17:19:47]

meshe:

my other backend in another location has 2

[17:19:52]

CShadowRun:

when i build my box i'll probably just have one machine doing it all

[17:19:55]

CShadowRun:

in a htpc case.

[17:19:57]

resno:

so you have 2 backends?

[17:20:01]

jst_home:

resno: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500028 is one fe option, HD capable and can run fanless and diskless if you network boot it.

[17:20:19]

meshe:

2 separate myth setups in 2 countries :)

[17:20:52]

resno:

ah.

[17:21:37]

sphery:

resno: with PVR-150's or HVR-1600, you can put a lot of tuners in a single backend. I had a system with 4 and never had a problem recording 4 shows at once while playing a 5th on an Athlon XP 2000+ system with a UDMA/100 HDD

[17:22:08]

sphery:

combined frontend/backend/mysql server, too, so it did a lot more than just the backend stuff

[17:23:24]

mzb:

resno, as further comparison, my BE+FE is X2 4400+ with 3.75TB and 4 tuners. My FE-only is X2 3800+

[17:23:32]

resno:

ok, so if i seperate them, my current backend specs are 1.8 ghz celeron, 512mb ram. is that strong enough? i know the ram isnt enough.

[17:23:50]

resno:

mzb: i am not an amd person by any means.

[17:23:50]

sphery:

that's not bad for an SDTV-only system

[17:23:52]

mzb:

(the BE+FE was actually BE-only until a small error during moving house;)

[17:23:52]

wagnerrp:

strong enough if all you want it to do is record

[17:24:01]

mzb:

resno, I don't care :)

[17:24:03]

sphery:

the memory would limit frontend theme choice, though (as you seem to realize)

[17:24:05]

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[17:24:05]

wagnerrp:

if you want to transcode, or commflag, you need more

[17:24:29]

wagnerrp:

you can run a jobqueue on your frontend, to shift that sort of processing over to a more powerful machine

[17:24:40]

** mzb also has Intel machines **

[17:24:46]

sphery:

actually, if you're patient, transcoding and commflagging work fine on a system like that

[17:24:49]

wagnerrp:

and more memory is always better (for disk cache reasons)

[17:25:10]

wagnerrp:

ok... s/you need more/you want more/

[17:25:23]

sphery:

I have 2 backends that can't even decode the TV they record in real time, but they transcode/commflag without issue (and one has only 512MB)

[17:25:30]

sphery:

so, yeah, want, not need

[17:25:44]

sphery:

but, really, getting more makes a lot of sense

[17:25:57]

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[17:26:00]

sphery:

especially if you can do it while minimizing recurring costs (power costs :)

[17:26:04]

resno:

sphery: why would you run two backends? instead of one good one?

[17:26:37]

wagnerrp:

you ran out of expansion slots

[17:26:39]

kormoc:

cheaper then a single dual slot mobo?

[17:26:44]

sphery:

mainly because I couldn't find any way to power my (digital) capture cards stably on a single mobo

[17:26:52]

sphery:

seems power distribution was a real issue

[17:27:13]

sphery:

plus, it allows me to have a lot more HDD's

[17:27:13]

** mzb hands sphery some jumper cables **

[17:27:25]

sphery:

heh, didn't try jumper cables...

[17:27:30]

wagnerrp:

so is it unlikely we will ever get an ION system with svideo output?

[17:27:31]

meshe:

1.21 Gigawatts!!!!!

[17:28:02]

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[17:28:05]

mzb:

you could always put two PSU's in the same case ;)

[17:28:16]

sphery:

I don't think it was the PSU

[17:28:27]

resno:

is network booting "easy" to configure?

[17:28:30]

wagnerrp:

mzb: not going to do anything if multiple PCI cards makes the system unstable

[17:28:35]

wagnerrp:

only one of them can power the board

[17:28:35]

sphery:

I really think it was the mobo and on-mobo power-distribution magic failure

[17:28:41]

mzb:

use one for the mobo and the other for drives

[17:28:45]

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[17:28:51]

wagnerrp:

resno: i believe ubuntu/mythbuntu basically has a checkbox for network boot

[17:29:01]

sphery:

resno: network booting like netboot or wake on lan?

[17:29:06]

wagnerrp:

but no, its not really difficult

[17:29:09]

sphery:

the latter is easy

[17:29:23]

sphery:

the former is very dependent on distro choice (TTBOMK)

[17:29:38]

kormoc:

anyone know how to tell apt-get to upgrade a package but not any deps?

[17:29:55]

mzb:

debian-based distros are dead easy to make netbootable (manually)

[17:29:59]

wagnerrp:

you set up nfs, you set up pxe, you grab a copy of pxelinux and set up some simple config files, you set up a second installation on an nfs share, and you make sure the kernel supports nfs root

[17:30:01]

resno:

sphery: i want it to boot and load off another machine

[17:30:41]

wagnerrp:

resno: your other option is a CF-to-IDE adapter, and a 4–8GB CF card

[17:30:47]

mzb:

got a router with openwrt?

[17:31:04]

wagnerrp:

mzb: openwrt does not support network booting

[17:31:08]

resno:

dont think so..

[17:31:13]

mzb:

(makes it even easier)

[17:31:18]

resno:

only linksys do that right?

[17:31:28]

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[17:31:29]

wagnerrp:

linksys routers do not support network booting

[17:31:51]

mzb:

wagnerrp, wtf? I'm talking about having a tftp-server on the network

[17:31:56]

resno:

well i mean linksys routers do openwrt

[17:32:10]

mzb:

nothing to do with linksys (or openwrt for that matter)

[17:32:16]

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[17:32:31]

wagnerrp:

'mzb: got a router with openwrt?'

[17:32:39]

gizmobay:

I'm trying to get the synaesthesia visualization working in mythmusic as it's just black. Anyone else compiling trunk and not having this visualation working?

[17:33:26]

mzb:

ideal routers are Asus WL-500GPv1 and Netgear WGT634u (stick an SD card + reader in the usb port for pxelinux + kernels)

[17:33:42]

mzb:

yeah righto wagnerrp .... going somewhere with this?

[17:34:07]

wagnerrp:

you can run a tftp server on any server just as easily as your router

[17:34:16]

wagnerrp:

on any linux PC

[17:34:23]

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[17:34:24]

mzb:

just easier and simpler to do it on the router

[17:34:47]

wagnerrp:

and you almost certainly dont want to be running your NFS server on some USB drive on a slow, embedded machine

[17:35:00]

mzb:

agreed

[17:35:01]

RyeBrye:

I used to run services on my router, until I realized that my backend was a way more powerful machine and was sitting idle most of the time anyway so I moved the workload to my backend

[17:35:41]

wagnerrp:

so im saying your router makes absolutely no difference

[17:35:50]

mzb:

*some* cards/machines/setups dislike (or ignore) the tftp-server being different from the dns-server/gateway

[17:36:15]

mzb:

so it *is* easier (in general) to have the tftp-server on the router

[17:36:24]

wagnerrp:

well thats just retarded

[17:36:34]

mzb:

I agree

[17:36:40]

wagnerrp:

what kind of PXE rom would care where those are located

[17:36:49]

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[17:36:49]

mzb:

a retarded one?

[17:38:06]

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[17:38:23]

wagnerrp:

i mean that literally makes no sense

[17:38:35]

wagnerrp:

PXE is not designed or often used in a consumer environment

[17:39:03]

wagnerrp:

and a consumer environment is the only place youre likely to have your gateway, dns-serv, and tftp-serv be in the same place

[17:39:22]

wagnerrp:

and thats ONLY if your router has a DNS proxy, instead of just forwarding the upstream server

[17:39:24]

mzb:

anyway, take it or leave it ... that's what I've learned from 10 years of netbooting

[17:40:16]

mzb:

first it was compaq that stuffed me over in that area (en-sff)

[17:40:45]

mzb:

latest I think was an nvidia/intel-pxe combo (if that makes any sense)

[17:41:14]

sid3windr:

10 years of netbooting!

[17:41:52]

mzb:

and in the middle of that I've got IP phones that do tftp configs (etc)

[17:41:54]

sid3windr:

only 7 here, but i've never had the tftp server being the same as the dns server nor the gateway (so that's 3 different ip's)

[17:41:56]

wagnerrp:

well with cards from 3com, intel, dlink, netgear, linksys, and onboard chips from nvidia, via, marvell, and nvidia, on some 800 or so systems, ive never seen that behavior

[17:42:15]

mzb:

known bug, apparently

[17:42:43]

tyce:

anyone know of a way to plug a PCI card into a usb port? do they make adapters that do that?

[17:42:45]

mzb:

sid3windr, started with a vax4000 :)

[17:43:06]

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[17:43:17]

mzb:

(which I still have)

[17:43:31]

wagnerrp:

tyce: they make external backplanes that talk to an expresscard slot

[17:43:37]

wagnerrp:

but ive not heard of one over USB

[17:43:44]

clever:

yeah

[17:43:54]

sid3windr:

vax 4000 did pxe?

[17:44:05]

mzb:

no

[17:44:07]

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[17:44:28]

clever:

tyce: http://www.magma.com/products/index.html

[17:44:37]

iamlindoro:

AndrewNC, Case insensitive match patch committed

[17:44:55]

mzb:

tftpboot

[17:45:13]

wagnerrp:

clever: none of those use USB

[17:45:16]

tyce:

wagnerrp: didn't think about the express slot, but that would work too

[17:45:30]

wagnerrp:

they all run off a respectable interconnect

[17:45:40]

clever:

wagnerrp: yeah, but he is likely to have expresscard if its a modern box

[17:45:52]

wagnerrp:

that would be... laptop

[17:45:52]

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[17:46:05]

clever:

and its still fun to drool over the products

[17:46:28]

wagnerrp:

tyce: note that none of those will be anything like cheap

[17:46:40]

wagnerrp:

its probably a better solution to just get a USB tuner

[17:47:48]

tyce:

wagnerrp: I have 4 DVB tuners, but the new motherboard I swapped in recently only has 3 slots (getting hard to find any more then that in a newer MB)

[17:48:45]

wagnerrp:

in that case, it will be cheaper to pick up an old tower on ebay, or just start a slave backend

[17:49:28]

wagnerrp:

their 1-slot external PCI boxes start at $1000

[17:49:28]

tyce:

tower isn't the issue, got plenty of room. just the physical pci slots

[17:49:30]

clever:

reminds me of when i turned the 133mhz tower into a storage slave

[17:49:37]

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[17:49:53]

clever:

its not even got a 2.6 kernel

[17:50:07]

tyce:

I just consolidated servers too, so I'm trying to not need to fire another one up

[17:50:23]

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[17:50:41]

clever:

ah

[17:50:58]

wagnerrp:

start swapping out your tuners for dual tuners?

[17:51:09]

wagnerrp:

or pick up a couple pci-e ones?

[17:51:48]

tyce:

yeah, looks like it'll be more cost efficient to go that route.

[17:52:05]

clever:

something ive read about the new automatic wakeup/shutdown

[17:52:09]

tyce:

you have a dual DVB OTA tuner you could recommend?

[17:52:20]

wagnerrp:

that would be dvb-t?

[17:52:28]

RyeBrye:

does hdhr do dvb-t?

[17:52:28]

clever:

having 5 idle tuners in the box would suck some power, and it may be better to have a slave capture box that turns off when idle

[17:52:37]

clever:

to fully power the tuners off

[17:52:39]

wagnerrp:

yes, there is a dvb-t version of the HDHR

[17:53:23]

wagnerrp:

and the HVR-2200 got linux drivers a couple months ago

[17:53:31]

tzanger:

tyce: I have a HVR-2250

[17:53:36]

clever:

tyce: if you moved all the tuners(except 1) to a slave, you could set it up to stay on for a minimal ammount of time

[17:53:40]

wagnerrp:

although it is not in the v4l-dvb tree yet, much less the kernel

[17:53:41]

tzanger:

not bad, no analog support under linux though, but that's fine for me

[17:53:57]

tyce:

wow, not cheap

[17:54:01]

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[17:54:04]

tyce:

$200

[17:54:11]

wagnerrp:

for what?

[17:54:16]

tyce:

clever: that actually sounds like a decent idea

[17:54:23]

tyce:

HVR-2200

[17:54:36]

wagnerrp:

that much? its like $130 around here

[17:54:41]

wagnerrp:

(the 2250 that is)

[17:54:55]

tzanger:

yeah it's about 130

[17:54:56]

wagnerrp:

2200 is dvb-t/pal, 2250 is atsc/ntsc

[17:55:00]

tyce:

I've paid ~$20 per card for my PCI single tuners

[17:55:16]

tzanger:

tyce: yeah you can definitely get cheaper, this was given to me buy a friend

[17:55:25]

tzanger:

I have an HVR-950 as well (USB2 ATSC single tuner)

[17:55:30]

tyce:

2250 is better :)

[17:55:37]

tzanger:

I am not sure I'm all that happy with the 2250's sensitivity

[17:55:45]

tzanger:

my shitty TV can pick up digital stations easier

[17:55:48]

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[17:55:49]

wagnerrp:

the 2200 == 2250

[17:55:56]

wagnerrp:

just for different regions

[17:56:02]

tzanger:

I'm hoping to help out with the driver for the 2250 a bit

[17:56:26]

tyce:

wagnerrp: sorry, I meant better price :)

[17:56:35]

JEDIDIAH__:

any BD users online?

[17:56:43]

wagnerrp:

BD?

[17:56:48]

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[17:56:52]

JEDIDIAH__:

bluray

[17:56:55]

wagnerrp:

yes

[17:57:22]

wagnerrp:

tyce: the official hauppauge store has it for 134E

[17:57:29]

JEDIDIAH__:

what format do you keep them in? the internal player has problems seeking int he mt2s files.

[17:57:36]

wagnerrp:

m2ts

[17:57:48]

wagnerrp:

well... used to do m2ts

[17:57:59]

wagnerrp:

now i remux to mkv, and strip out all the extra streams

[17:58:17]

JEDIDIAH__:

have any of those details posted anywhere?

[17:58:36]

wagnerrp:

what details?

[17:58:54]

JEDIDIAH__:

commands, options

[17:59:00]

wagnerrp:

'mmg'

[18:00:46]

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[18:02:16]

resno:

ill be in a min, something has gone wrong at work

[18:02:35]

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[18:02:39]

resno:

back*

[18:02:41]

wagnerrp:

JEDIDIAH__: anyway, you *can* run mkvmerge from the command line, i never have

[18:02:50]

wagnerrp:

i just use 'mmg' (mkvmergegui)

[18:02:51]

JEDIDIAH__:

ok

[18:02:59]

JEDIDIAH__:

how much space do you save with that?

[18:03:26]

wagnerrp:

select the video, select the streams, optionally name them and set a default

[18:04:13]

wagnerrp:

remuxing without while keeping all the streams? i find mkv to be ~5% more space efficient than m2ts

[18:04:21]

JEDIDIAH__:

thx, I will have to give it a spin.

[18:04:42]

wagnerrp:

which is not surprising, it is a transport stream, it is going to have a lot of extra data in there so you can pick up playback where ever you want

[18:04:47]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: (not that I'm saying that it shouldn't be fixed to work without them), but have you tried making a seektable for the m2ts files?

[18:04:59]

JEDIDIAH__:

no, I haven't tried that.

[18:05:09]

sphery:

it will probably fix the seeking issues

[18:05:20]

sphery:

(or work around the bug that seeking isn't very good without a seektable)

[18:05:33]

wagnerrp:

on a ~20GB file, i end up shaving 1–1.5GB off on the format alone

[18:05:47]

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[18:05:59]

tmkt_:

my inlaws are here right now, any easy to read theme for them? big font theme

[18:06:07]

wagnerrp:

plus i usually drop several 640kbps audio streams, maybe a 1.5mbps audio stream, and sometimes a several mbps secondary video stream

[18:06:32]

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[18:06:50]

tmkt_:

mostly the program listing page

[18:07:11]

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[18:08:02]

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[18:08:12]

sphery:

tmkt: program listings page as in Watch Recordings or EPG?

[18:08:32]

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[18:08:53]

tmkt:

as in the channel guide

[18:08:58]

wagnerrp:

JEDIDIAH__: this is actually on HDDVDs

[18:09:00]

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[18:09:04]

sphery:

tmkt: in -fixes or trunk

[18:09:09]

tmkt:

just watched my father in law walk to a foot of the screen to read the listings on each channel

[18:09:12]

tmkt:

fixes

[18:09:31]

sphery:

in -fixes it's not much themed, you need to change the number of items displayed in the EPG

[18:09:32]

wagnerrp:

i used to remux the EVOBs to M2TSs, because my windows machine didnt have a splitter which could handle the EVOBs properly

[18:09:50]

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[18:10:02]

tmkt:

ok..so reduce the amount of rows to 4 from 6..and the font should get bigger?

[18:10:04]

JEDIDIAH__:

I will see if the seektable helps...

[18:10:04]

sphery:

tmkt: Channels to Display and Time Blocks (30 mins) to Display

[18:10:08]

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[18:12:07]

sphery:

tmkt: actually, I don't know that it will change font size

[18:12:12]

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[18:12:15]

sphery:

don't know if that's themed or Qt font size

[18:12:32]

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[18:12:33]

wagnerrp:

no, changing the font size will change that in mythvideo (-fixes)

[18:12:38]

wagnerrp:

in settings

[18:12:47]

tmkt:

ok..so less rows and bigger font

[18:12:49]

tmkt:

will do it

[18:12:57]

sphery:

this is the EPG in -fixes

[18:13:00]

sphery:

not MythVideo

[18:13:06]

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[18:13:06]

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[18:13:08]

wagnerrp:

ah, dont know about that one

[18:13:10]

wagnerrp:

never used it

[18:13:26]

sphery:

all I know is I can't wait until it's properly themed in 0.23 or whatever

[18:13:46]

wagnerrp:

apparently google turned 11 yesterday

[18:14:02]

tmkt:

already?

[18:14:03]

wagnerrp:

their image had two 'l's instead of one

[18:14:05]

tmkt:

hmmm...find that hard to believe

[18:14:17]

tmkt:

yahoo is 15...

[18:14:18]

dustybin:

am i right in thinking, the less bugs left, more coders will be concentrating on the few bugs left?

[18:14:30]

iamlindoro:

no

[18:14:35]

tmkt:

nah

[18:14:38]

dustybin:

ok

[18:14:40]

iamlindoro:

The fewer bugs left, the more those bugs are the ones nobody wants to touch

[18:14:46]

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[18:14:48]

dustybin:

haha ok

[18:15:07]

messerting:

Hi folks, I'm running mythtv from trunk r21954 and have a problem with mythweb, same as the one described in the ticket here: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5851

[18:15:11]

tmkt:

sure had quite the drop the other day...100 to 86

[18:15:19]

dustybin:

how difficult is it to code? i have never touched C / C++ in my life

[18:15:34]

dustybin:

do you need to right kind of mind to code in C / C++ ?

[18:15:49]

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[18:15:54]

sphery:

messerting: uninstall MythWeb, then delete the directory where MythWeb is installed (and all the junk that's left in there), then reinstall MythWeb

[18:15:56]

tmkt:

nah...they are both different ways of thinking though

[18:15:59]

jduggan:

no anyone can code c/c++, project like myth is more about knowing the internals

[18:16:08]

dustybin:

ok

[18:16:17]

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[18:16:28]

jduggan:

i care not to understand myth internals, im happy to remain a luser

[18:16:37]

messerting:

sphery: ok, I'll try. But – should it be "Program::" or "program::" ?

[18:16:39]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: not really, most of the big languages in use anymore bear significant resemblance to C

[18:17:07]

tmkt:

all those schools skipping C, and teaching just java it seems

[18:17:09]

wagnerrp:

its all just a function of how much manual memory management you need to do, and what helper libraries you have

[18:17:14]

tmkt:

all the candidates I've had over the last few years

[18:17:30]

sphery:

messerting: if you're truly running r21954, you have old garbage left from an old install

[18:17:36]

tmkt:

for different positions, the only ones that knew stuff other then Java were hobiests

[18:17:36]

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[18:17:38]

sphery:

so it will all be fixed by cleaning out that garbage

[18:17:44]

wagnerrp:

they caught us C++, but apparently theyve switched to matlab scripting in our curriculum now

[18:18:04]

tmkt:

the main one at my school was modula-2

[18:18:08]

wagnerrp:

not that they really taught us much

[18:18:11]

dustybin:

does C++ talk directly to the hardware like ASM ?

[18:18:21]

sphery:

messerting: remember, also, that you need the same revision as your master backend for all Myth components (including MythWeb)

[18:18:22]

wagnerrp:

10 weeks of C++, and we never got past terminal IO

[18:18:28]

tmkt:

nothing talks as directly as asm

[18:18:38]

dustybin:

ok

[18:18:46]

sphery:

so you can't run a r19008 rev of MythWeb with r21954 backend

[18:19:06]

wagnerrp:

in that all compiled languages get compiled into ASM, yes, it talks to the hardware

[18:20:00]

dustybin:

does the linux scene in general lack good coders? or are there lots of them?

[18:20:47]

iamlindoro:

dustybin, are these real questions or are you just looking for someone to pay attention to you?

[18:20:59]

dustybin:

iamlindoro: not at all, just curious

[18:21:01]

wagnerrp:

define 'good coder'

[18:21:01]

jduggan:

dustybin, what do you think the answer is

[18:21:05]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, the linux scene is filled with bumbling doofuses copying code out of textbooks

[18:21:10]

iamlindoro:

next question

[18:21:16]

messerting:

sorry, my keybord died (in X), this text it copy-pasted from a VT. BRB...

[18:21:41]

dustybin:

jduggan: i think maybe, real good coders are hard to come by, because of the complexity of coding

[18:22:09]

** kormoc shoots apt-get **

[18:22:13]

wagnerrp:

again, define 'good coder'

[18:22:27]

dustybin:

linus torvalds

[18:22:43]

iamlindoro:

that's not a definition

[18:22:45]

tmkt:

what makes him a good coder?

[18:22:47]

resno:

so the father of the os, is a good coder?

[18:22:55]

iamlindoro:

that's starstruck idiocy

[18:23:02]

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[18:23:06]

wagnerrp:

is that someone who can hack together something that works? is that someone who writes code without bugs on the first try? is that someone who can manage modular APIs? is that someone who can write readable/maintainable code? is that someone who documents their code?

[18:23:09]

tmkt:

guess bill gates is good coder also

[18:23:17]

dustybin:

alan cox

[18:23:44]

resno:

i doubt bill gates has touched a line of code in 20 years

[18:23:46]

jduggan:

are you listing off people who have made notable contributions, or have you studied their work?

[18:23:55]

jduggan:

and realised theyre a good coder?

[18:24:06]

dustybin:

jduggan: i havent a clue

[18:24:19]

clever:

ive fixed a kernel oops in my garmin_gps driver

[18:24:44]

jduggan:

so you list linus torvalds as a good coder but havent actually looked at any code he's written? ;P

[18:24:51]

dustybin:

jduggan: true

[18:26:02]

jduggan:

there are lots of project leaders out there who have written really cool and pretty large apps, but the code is considered poor by other `academic` engineers, so are they good for writing a great app that works? or do they suck coz their code sucked to achieve it?

[18:26:09]

JEDIDIAH__:

linus's biggest influence isn't even as a "coder"

[18:27:01]

meshe:

imo, there's also differences between coder, software developer, software architecht...

[18:27:16]

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[18:28:00]

kormoc:

meshe: Interview question I ask folks, 'Coder, Developer, Hacker, Architect, What are you?'

[18:28:15]

meshe:

nice one kormoc, i like that

[18:28:30]

messerting:

sphery: I'm back, sorry – my keyboard semi-died in X, pretty annoying bug in Fedora (Rawhide)... (switching to a VT worked)

[18:28:33]

resno:

i like that too

[18:28:56]

messerting:

I'll check my mythweb installation and revisions

[18:29:00]

JEDIDIAH__:

you forgot "subversive"

[18:29:11]

** kormoc laughs **

[18:31:17]

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[18:31:42]

sphery:

kormoc: Sorry about the flowplayer-related feature-request-without-patch e-mail you got yesterday. I specifically said, "mention it in here sometime," but he must have read it as, "send an e-mail."

[18:32:00]

kormoc:

Heh, no worries

[18:32:05]

iamlindoro:

Don't lie, he can check the logs

[18:32:13]

iamlindoro:

I specifically read "you'd better e-mail him immediately"

[18:32:17]

sphery:

at least this way, you can ignore it more easily if you so choose. :)

[18:32:22]

iamlindoro:

"possibly three to five times"

[18:32:30]

messerting:

woops, I am running mythweb r19752 agains mythtv r21954. Not good...

[18:32:32]

sphery:

iamlindoro: that wasn't in my PM to him?

[18:32:34]

sphery:

oops

[18:32:50]

sphery:

messerting: heh, had to be one of the 2 :)

[18:33:19]

** kormoc lights #ubuntu on fire **

[18:33:21]

messerting:

sphery: yep – thanks!

[18:33:37]

kormoc:

I feel so dirty for going in there... and I didn't even get help...

[18:33:47]

sphery:

messerting: and thank you for asking here first rather than just posting a ticket :)

[18:34:33]

sphery:

Look at all the poor koala's... Their fur. On fire. It's... it's... Oh, the koality...

[18:35:46]

kormoc:

It's absurd that to update subversion a single minor point release, I need to upgrade libstdc++ a major point release, apache and php, ruby, gcc, openssl, klibc, curl, kernel versions, sysv, etc...

[18:36:03]

kormoc:

for that, flames are going easy...

[18:36:29]

sphery:

heh

[18:36:43]

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[18:37:43]

kormoc:

oh for the love of god and everything holy...

[18:37:55]

kormoc:

To upgrade individual package called sudo, enter: # apt-get install sudo

[18:38:11]

JEDIDIAH__:

making a seektable for the m2ts file did the trick.

[18:38:12]

kormoc:

upgrade is world only, you reinstall to upgrade a single package...

[18:40:04]

kormoc:

but upgrade takes packages as arguments, but fails to do anything with them

[18:40:06]

** kormoc blinks **

[18:40:40]

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[18:41:42]

clever:

yeah, apt is strange at times

[18:41:58]

clever:

every package manager has its strange bits

[18:42:41]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: cool... if you feel like patching the ffmpeg seek (the no-seektable one), we'd love the patch :)

[18:44:17]

sphery:

clever: Strange bits... Are those the ones composed of 3 flavors of quarks?

[18:44:28]

clever:

sphery: some are

[18:45:00]

clever:

but how do you tell what taste the quark has?

[18:45:41]

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[18:46:27]

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[18:48:44]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[18:50:59]

sphery:

clever: you lick it up and down and strangely?

[18:51:28]

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[18:52:17]

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[18:52:58]

resno:

its interesting seeing an irc line that can get off topic, and not get beaten up about getting back on topic

[18:53:26]

kormoc:

!trout resno topic trout

[18:53:26]

** MythLogBot slaps resno with a topic trout trout on behalf of kormoc... **

[18:53:54]

sphery:

thanks, kormoc... his off-topic comment was really distracting my conversation.

[18:53:55]

resno:

topic trout?

[18:54:16]

sphery:

it was a joke about how you were off topic :)

[18:54:21]

resno:

i got that

[18:54:38]

sphery:

I don't know the history of the trout, though

[18:55:26]

resno:

so you all do have bot commands, i never see them used tho

[18:55:41]

kormoc:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fish-Slapping_Dance

[18:56:20]

sphery:

Wow... That's cool.

[18:56:53]

kormoc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s

[18:57:44]

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[18:58:08]

resno:

so after its all said and done, i think i am going to the two computer method

[18:58:12]

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[18:58:21]

resno:

with a fe and seperate be

[18:59:59]

resno:

has anyone ever used a eee pc as a frontend?

[19:00:41]

laga:

nobody has ever done that, no

[19:01:06]

resno:

i guess its just not powerful enough right?

[19:01:09]

kormoc:

that's sacrilege!

[19:01:56]

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[19:02:25]

resno:

what other things shouldnt be done?

[19:03:33]

kormoc:

heh, it was more that I'm sure folks have tried

[19:03:50]

laga:

yeah, people have tried it

[19:03:50]

kormoc:

we're (and by we I mean me) a sarcastic bunch at times...

[19:04:00]

laga:

but "has anyone ever" questions are useless

[19:04:21]

resno:

i gotcha, well does it run well?

[19:04:29]

resno:

is that a better question?

[19:05:02]

laga:

it depends!

[19:06:03]

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[19:06:45]

** laga spent like 5 hours shopping and is useless tonight **

[19:06:57]

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[19:06:58]

laga:

resno: it should be good enough for SDTV with a low CPU deinterlacer

[19:06:58]

kormoc:

laga: so what did you buy?

[19:07:12]

laga:

kormoc: clothes. no neat toys, unfortunately

[19:07:18]

kormoc:

aww

[19:07:20]

resno:

deinterlacer?

[19:07:29]

resno:

laga: nice closes?

[19:07:32]

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[19:07:56]

laga:

resno: TV usually is interlaced, ie one picture is composed of two frames. deinterlacing is the process of putting these two frames together

[19:08:00]

laga:

resno: yep!

[19:08:07]

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[19:08:26]

resno:

laga: i got that part, but whats the "low cpu deinterlacer" part.

[19:08:52]

justinh:

heheh Sky TV are apparently thinking about bringing about a networked DVR for home users. 'only' £45 a month on top of the usual fees

[19:09:08]

kormoc:

There's many forms of de-interlacing, some takes tons of cpu, others take little.

[19:09:15]

justinh:

could have 'up to' 1TB storage OMG!

[19:09:18]

laga:

what kormoc said

[19:09:27]

resno:

ah, gotcha

[19:09:35]

laga:

resno: where would you use the eee pc?

[19:09:37]

resno:

justinh: is that a good deal?

[19:09:50]

justinh:

resno: oh no. No no no no no

[19:09:50]

** kormoc blinks at resno **

[19:10:00]

resno:

laga: most likely in bed room

[19:10:06]

laga:

resno: attached to a TV?

[19:10:14]

resno:

laga: yes on a tv

[19:10:34]

resno:

laga: thining a resolution problem?

[19:10:34]

laga:

resno: on a TV with VGA input?

[19:10:56]

resno:

laga: oh, no. this tv has no such inputs

[19:11:09]

justinh:

best forget about the diddy ickle cpu for mythtv purposes unless you're thinking Nvidia ION platform

[19:11:15]

laga:

resno: i guess the eee pc does not have tv-out. but i'm not sure.

[19:11:29]

resno:

laga: your right, its only vga

[19:12:03]

resno:

trying to think of a small form factor for a fe, that will help keep costs low on it

[19:12:22]

laga:

you can probably get a nice cheap antec case, some nvidia chipset motherboard, an AMD X2 CPU, big heatsink and some memory for 300€.. and that will be quiet (if assembled correctly) and powerful

[19:12:23]

justinh:

small doesn't come cheap. especially if you want nice to look at

[19:12:31]

laga:

yeah, small never is cheap

[19:13:08]

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[19:13:18]

resno:

laga: what is that in usd?

[19:13:36]

resno:

laga: what type of money is that?

[19:13:40]

laga:

euro

[19:13:43]

resno:

ah

[19:13:44]

laga:

european money

[19:13:52]

laga:

prolly 300–400USD

[19:14:01]

resno:

laga: everyone knows what the euro is ;)

[19:14:15]

laga:

resno: go ask joe sixpack in ohio

[19:14:21]

laga:

not sure if he knews :)

[19:14:31]

laga:

err, knows.

[19:14:38]

squish102:

will something like the popcorn hour ever be useful with a mythtv BE?

[19:14:50]

resno:

haha joe sixpack

[19:14:54]

JEDIDIAH__:

revo might work.

[19:15:01]

resno:

its 438 usd

[19:15:03]

** JEDIDIAH__ is testing an asrock 330 presently **

[19:15:07]

laga:

resno: since you're in the states, maybe a mac mini would be an option. not sure how expensive they are over there

[19:15:17]

justinh:

squish102: Ion is reckoned to be better value

[19:15:25]

justinh:

as in, non-sucky UI

[19:15:26]

laga:

resno: hardware prices do not carry over well ;)

[19:15:26]

kormoc:

$600 to $800 depending on ram

[19:15:39]

resno:

laga: overpriced... i would rather build my own solution

[19:15:49]

JEDIDIAH__:

macs represent the "premium" option. although they have the potential to do bluray in SW eventually.

[19:15:55]

resno:

plus i know little to nothing about macs

[19:15:57]

justinh:

resno: you won't be able to build anything as good looking or as small as a mac mini for the same money

[19:16:11]

JEDIDIAH__:

macs are just PCs with an annoying BIOS replacement.

[19:16:25]

kormoc:

resno: where are you seeing a mac mini for $438? (I'm guessing not a new early 09 model?)

[19:16:36]

kormoc:

JEDIDIAH__: meh, the EFI is going to be everywhere soon enough

[19:16:38]

justinh:

JEDIDIAH__: don't forget the engineering into a small nice looking quiet box

[19:16:44]

resno:

kormoc: i didnt price a mac mini...

[19:17:03]

JEDIDIAH__:

actually, I think the black asrock looks better.

[19:17:04]

resno:

kormoc: that was a conversion from 300 euro to usd

[19:17:06]

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[19:17:08]

kormoc:

ah

[19:17:16]

justinh:

JEDIDIAH__: nowhere near as small though. and it's black

[19:17:17]

JEDIDIAH__:

noisy though

[19:17:27]

JEDIDIAH__:

it's almost the same size.

[19:17:31]

justinh:

they say < 26dBA. easy to quieten

[19:17:35]

kormoc:

Yeah, my mini is silent

[19:17:36]

justinh:

no it's not

[19:17:39]

sphery:

My approach is always to go with the "invisible" frontend. Make a frontend box that at's ugly/loud/big as you like and put it in another room/closet with wires run through/around walls.

[19:17:48]

JEDIDIAH__:

I can take side by side pictures if you like.

[19:17:49]

justinh:

the mini is about 25% smaller than the asrock thing

[19:17:58]

justinh:

seen side by side photos

[19:18:02]

sphery:

much cheaper than buying something that pretends to be small and pretty

[19:18:10]

justinh:

then again it's not that big a deal

[19:18:10]

sphery:

and invisible is much prettier, IMHO

[19:18:11]

JEDIDIAH__:

the phrase "good enough for government work" comes to mind.

[19:18:13]

resno:

macs can run myth?

[19:18:22]

JEDIDIAH__:

macs can run Linux.

[19:18:24]

laga:

resno: macs can run linux ;)

[19:18:56]

justinh:

macs can also run mythfrontend natively on OSX but you might not like that. comes with limitations attached

[19:18:59]

kormoc:

asrock, - 195mm (W) x 70mm (H) x 186mm (L)

[19:19:06]

resno:

the mac mini is 599

[19:19:13]

resno:

usd

[19:19:36]

justinh:

only snag with the asrock thing is you'll be totally dependent on hardware video decoding

[19:19:51]

kormoc:

5.08 cm x 16.51 cm x 16.51 cm

[19:19:52]

sphery:

yeah, go big/loud/ugly and put it elsewhere :)

[19:19:56]

JEDIDIAH__:

...jury is still out on that.

[19:20:21]

justinh:

JEDIDIAH__: time will tell if vdpau is everything folks hope it will be

[19:20:27]

laga:

justinh: yeah

[19:20:32]

resno:

how about the apple tv?

[19:20:51]

justinh:

how about not the appletv for the reason it's no use for HDTV?

[19:20:58]

JEDIDIAH__:

you are better off trying a revo (than an appletv)

[19:21:12]

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[19:21:17]

JEDIDIAH__:

mine does HD fine (appletv)

[19:21:26]

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[19:21:27]

justinh:

HD != HD yet again though

[19:21:40]

JEDIDIAH__:

It won't do HD-PVR recordings though.

[19:21:45]

justinh:

720p 'low' bitrate :)

[19:21:46]

JEDIDIAH__:

Great for Nova though.

[19:22:05]

resno:

do you guys live this stuff?

[19:22:12]

JEDIDIAH__:

My PBS affiliate does high bitrate 1080i

[19:22:20]

justinh:

mpeg2, sure

[19:22:35]

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[19:22:43]

justinh:

no use for european HDTV whatsoever ;)

[19:22:58]

JEDIDIAH__:

Do they sell Apple products in Europe? '-)

[19:22:59]

justinh:

not unless you want to transcode everything. heh

[19:23:15]

justinh:

JEDIDIAH__: some saps I know have appletv boxes

[19:23:19]

JEDIDIAH__:

[ducks]

[19:23:33]

justinh:

they actually pay for stuff they watch through itunes. muppetry

[19:24:06]

JEDIDIAH__:

I dunno... I "pay for stuff" but then again I have a little bit of plastic left over afterwards... '-)

[19:24:33]

resno:

you can pay for stuff on itunes?

[19:24:43]

** JEDIDIAH__ pays for stuff on Amazon **

[19:24:58]

JEDIDIAH__:

even bought from amazon.uk to see if PAL would look any better

[19:25:18]

JEDIDIAH__:

tried to buy a revo on amazon.uk but they wouldn't let me.

[19:25:19]

justinh:

I like apple's UI though

[19:25:36]

justinh:

on the appliances I mean, not iTunes itself

[19:25:40]

JEDIDIAH__:

it's fine as long as you don't ever want to zoom into anything.

[19:25:41]

resno:

apple has been able to top everyone elses ui.

[19:26:14]

resno:

i think generally. but since dont own any apple products outside an ipod, who knows how i would really feel after using it

[19:26:19]

JEDIDIAH__:

the apple UI would not pass the WAF test here.

[19:26:36]

justinh:

XBMC doesn't pass muster to my eyes. nor boxee

[19:26:57]

justinh:

might 'look nice' at first glance but it's a PITA to actually use IMHO

[19:27:07]

wagnerrp:

JEDIDIAH__: like kormoc said, there is no option but to switch to EFI in the future (or create an other standard)

[19:27:21]

resno:

what is mythweb coded in?

[19:27:23]

wagnerrp:

the old boot sequence cannot handle booting from disks 2TB or larger

[19:27:25]

JEDIDIAH__:

well, it's possible that the PC version will be less anoying.

[19:27:33]

wagnerrp:

resno: a mix of perl and php

[19:27:35]

jduggan:

resno, emacs

[19:27:39]

jduggan:

heh

[19:27:44]

resno:

jduggan: haha emacs...

[19:28:18]

resno:

wagnerrp: do you know more about the coding, id like to ask a few deeper questions.

[19:28:31]

resno:

this maybe the wrong channel

[19:28:34]

wagnerrp:

i know some, i can try to answer...

[19:29:22]

wagnerrp:

or the author may pipe up, if not otherwise occupied

[19:29:51]

resno:

is it commented fairly well? i would like to look at it and maybe make some changes

[19:29:59]

wagnerrp:

so as always mentioned in this channel, dont ask to ask, just ask

[19:30:05]

erik__:

how do i how do you change dvb subtitles size? I have tried setting all the options that fit but the size stays the same

[19:30:14]

justinh:

erik__: you don't!

[19:30:20]

justinh:

erik__: they're hard-coded bitmaps

[19:30:25]

wagnerrp:

resno: last i checked, not really

[19:30:28]

erik__:

:( they are sooo large

[19:30:38]

wagnerrp:

but its just scripting language, and its pretty straight forward

[19:30:45]

justinh:

erik__: erm I mean *most* DVB subs are bitmaps

[19:30:55]

resno:

wagnerrp: right, i know php. but dont know perl.

[19:31:01]

justinh:

if the size options aren't changing anything, then they're bitmaps ;)

[19:31:01]

erik__:

ok sent as bitmaps in the stream?

[19:31:09]

wagnerrp:

the perl isnt really used to build the webpage

[19:31:14]

resno:

wagnerrp: do you know if its object oriented php, or proceduarl?

[19:31:15]

justinh:

erik__: yeah. subpictures similar to dvd subtitles

[19:31:16]

wagnerrp:

perl is used for backend tasks

[19:31:34]

wagnerrp:

like communicating with the backend, streaming video, stuff like that

[19:31:35]

erik__:

justinh: ah ok, didnt know that. thanks

[19:31:37]

resno:

wagnerrp: i was thinking perl would be used for that

[19:31:50]

sphery:

resno: becoming more and more objectified lately

[19:32:05]

justinh:

erik__: in theory you could mod the code to scale subtitle bitmaps but I imagine you'd have your work cut out there

[19:32:30]

justinh:

much easier to display em 1:1

[19:32:51]

resno:

sphery: is there a development "team" working on the portion or is it basically completed?

[19:33:00]

erik__:

I am no coder so it will have to do

[19:33:04]

wagnerrp:

what 'portion'?

[19:33:06]

justinh:

resno: nothing is ever finished ;)

[19:33:10]

sphery:

justinh: and, in theory, they've been rendered at the appropriate size for the video size, so it's supposed to be 1:1 on the video image

[19:33:40]

justinh:

anyway who says being hard of hearing means you can't also be partially sighted? ;)

[19:34:00]

sphery:

resno: basically kormoc is doing the vast majority of the MythWeb work. Another dev xr is has been too busy with other stuff related to Myth (such as Schedules Direct)

[19:34:17]

sphery:

justinh: good point :)

[19:34:51]

resno:

sphery: i gotcha.

[19:34:54]

justinh:

which brings me to another pondering.. wonder if anybody has ever attempted CDG playback in mythtv :P

[19:35:00]

kormoc:

resno: I'm migrating it over to oop, so right now it's a bit of a mashup

[19:35:22]

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[19:35:39]

sphery:

the "traditional" (EIA-608) US captions are provided without any size specifier, but there were accepted guidelines among the Consumer Electronics Association that specified the appropriate size. EIA-708 captions (the new ones used in digital TV) allow devices to provide user control over the size, but Myth doesn't have that support, yet.

[19:36:00]

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[19:36:06]

justinh:

sphery: nah, just what font is used for every single nuance :(

[19:36:19]

resno:

kormoc: ok, i imagine you arent using a framework of any sort

[19:36:38]

sphery:

justinh: I think I saw a show that had Charles de Gaulle airport in a scene.

[19:36:42]

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[19:36:52]

sphery:

so, I suppose I had CDG playback...

[19:37:05]

wagnerrp:

DTV now uses bitmapped captions?

[19:37:09]

justinh:

oo look a tumbleweed

[19:37:15]

justinh:

wagnerrp: always has in Europe

[19:37:32]

sphery:

justinh: you think 18 fonts specified (and loaded and all ASCII characters rendered into memory) is too much?

[19:37:33]

justinh:

DVB subs can be text too but they're very rare

[19:37:42]

justinh:

sphery: without a doubt

[19:37:51]

** wagnerrp hates pre-rendered text **

[19:38:01]

justinh:

freedom lover

[19:38:03]

sphery:

wagnerrp: US cpations aren't bitmapped, but DVB captions usually are

[19:38:15]

wagnerrp:

always a PITA trying to rip subtitles in DVDs

[19:38:26]

justinh:

don't bother then :)

[19:38:32]

sphery:

though they (like bitmapped DVD subtitles) are called subtitles, so pretend I said DVB subtitles

[19:38:34]

justinh:

nothing worth watching has subtitles anyway

[19:39:01]

sphery:

I enable captions on all TV I watch

[19:39:18]

justinh:

thought about it for the 1st couple episodes of "the wire" I watched

[19:39:25]

sphery:

helps with the mumbling actors and the clueless mixers in many TV shows

[19:39:28]

justinh:

like WTF are they saying?

[19:39:38]

sphery:

yeah

[19:39:58]

wagnerrp:

you mean DTV captions actually get it right?

[19:40:06]

wagnerrp:

we used to have a CC box for my grandpa

[19:40:09]

_ben:

I have a profound hearing loss so I have subtitles on constantly too

[19:40:14]

wagnerrp:

and half the time, the CC was very wrong

[19:40:27]

justinh:

times I've seen it, they've been succinct but accurate

[19:40:44]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I actually still use the EIA-608 captions (the "analog" captions) from my digital streams

[19:40:45]

_ben:

the typos on live tv can be funny tho

[19:41:01]

sphery:

they're /much/ more reliable than the line 23 captions transmitted in analog

[19:41:06]

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[19:41:11]

sphery:

(because they're actually digital to the decoder)

[19:41:14]

justinh:

best time was when we turned on subtitles for 'top of the pops' when we were at a house party many years ago

[19:41:28]

_ben:

karoke eh?

[19:41:30]

justinh:

(Youson D'Our sings in French)

[19:41:32]

wagnerrp:

although i would like to see the live captions from that NY FOX nightly news a week back

[19:41:34]

sphery:

Oh, and I use them because Myth's support for EIA-708 captions is, er, incomplete...

[19:42:06]

justinh:

live captions ... typos there should be no surprise. stenographers have their work cut out

[19:42:20]

sphery:

(the EIA-708 captions in Myth have the benefit that you don't have to rewind to figure out what they said a while ago--as the captions aren't really cleared, but are stacked on top of each other)

[19:42:37]

wagnerrp:

specifically, did the typer continue on without noticing? did they bleep it out? did they start rolling on the floor, with no subsequent captions for about 30 seconds?

[19:42:42]

** justinh imagines Glenn Beck segment captions just saying <RANT> <OPINIONATED DRIVEL> <RANT> **

[19:42:44]

sphery:

so, until it's a white bar on the picture, you might be able to figure out what it used to say... :)

[19:43:11]

_ben:

But heh, it's been quite a while since I've seen a CC box

[19:43:13]

justinh:

or <A C*** SPEAKS!>

[19:43:42]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I've seen a /lot/ of shows where they bleep the audio but the captions have the bleeped word all spelled out.

[19:43:46]

wagnerrp:

justinh: did you see the clip a week or two back where some news anchor just blurted 'keep f-ing that chicken'?

[19:44:01]

justinh:

oh yeah.

[19:44:11]

justinh:

that was gold

[19:44:25]

wagnerrp:

and the female co-anchor crapped herself

[19:45:04]

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[19:45:07]

justinh:

also been highly amused by Glenn Beck being cross-examined about his racist tendencies. It's less disturbing than seeing his crocodile patriotic tears though

[19:45:49]

laga:

reddit is full of crap about glenn beck. they were trying to spin up a rape accusation story against him

[19:45:53]

laga:

silly stuff

[19:46:09]

justinh:

couldn't happen to a nicer guy, I figure. but I'm just mean

[19:46:16]

_ben:

mmm, got an old CRT tv, is there a card i can get to output to it?

[19:46:29]

justinh:

_ben: nvidia fx*200 or so

[19:46:30]

resno:

pvr 350

[19:46:35]

wagnerrp:

resno: no

[19:46:36]

justinh:

no no no no no no no. NO

[19:46:50]

wagnerrp:

ignore resno, dont get a 350, get a real video card

[19:46:52]

resno:

wagnerrp: i thought coxial output work

[19:46:59]

_ben:

ta

[19:47:01]

justinh:

if you have a CPU > 200Mhz, no pvr350 is needed

[19:47:14]

wagnerrp:

just about any video card you buy will have a svideo or composite video output

[19:47:16]

justinh:

and if you have a CPU < 200Mhz, the junkyard is calling you

[19:47:35]

justinh:

and FWIW you ain't gonna get an RF output from any VGA card

[19:47:35]

resno:

so i guess dont do what i said

[19:47:51]

wagnerrp:

justinh: for better...

[19:47:54]

justinh:

it had its time. That time has passed

[19:48:24]

wagnerrp:

_ben: i presume this TV has some kind of video input?

[19:48:33]

** resno sits quietly **

[19:48:40]

_ben:

like, rf/scart

[19:48:40]

justinh:

when CPUs were underpowered to play mpeg2 SDTV and VGA card TV outputs were poor quality.. now no longer the case on either count

[19:48:51]

meshe:

the 350 X drivers still work, but they are a pain to set up

[19:49:05]

justinh:

s-video or composite & 3.5mm stereo jack plug to SCART :)

[19:49:08]

sphery:

and there's no benefit to using the 350

[19:49:10]

meshe:

still work as of Mythbuntu 9.04

[19:49:18]

sphery:

only disadvantages and loss of capability

[19:49:31]

justinh:

and NO developers have 350 cards in use anymore. Doubtless

[19:49:42]

justinh:

so when it breaks, it'll prolly stay broke

[19:50:09]

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[19:50:57]

resno:

well, a few years ago it was all the rage.

[19:50:59]

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[19:51:46]

justinh:

hey, anybody seen Pong? Man, what a game!

[19:51:48]

wagnerrp:

5+ years ago, it was all the rage

[19:51:52]

meshe:

i used it a couple years ago to avoid putting a video card in a combined BE/FE, i wouldn't do it again

[19:52:18]

wagnerrp:

10+ years ago, modern computers already had no trouble decoding any video the 350 could manage

[19:52:37]

justinh:

and Xvid hadn't been invented

[19:54:16]

resno:

thats when i was first getting into pvrs, but i was in college then

[19:54:39]

resno:

so i couldnt afford all the fancy tuner cards and setups

[19:54:45]

justinh:

borderline whether or not VGA card TV outputs were decent quality compared to the pvr350 output, but it wouldn't have been long after that

[19:54:46]

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[19:54:54]

sphery:

I bought one when I was buying parts for my first Myth box because it was all the rage. I got it, used it for 2 weeks, then permanently disabled the TV out because it had no advantages and had a lot of disadvantages.

[19:55:22]

sphery:

with proper choice of TV card, the TV out was good and was able to do at least as good a picture as PVR-350

[19:55:48]

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[19:56:00]

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[19:56:03]

sphery:

though PVR-350 TV out is all or nothing (either as good as it gets or not configured at all), but it was /very/ easy to misconfigure video card TV out and get bad results

[19:56:36]

meshe:

those were the days :)

[19:57:05]

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[19:57:11]

justinh:

you can still buy hardware that won't play back SDTV mpeg2 without help, though :D

[19:57:16]

JEDIDIAH__:

we are now in the age of h264 acceleration

[19:57:33]

** mag0o still uses his 350 for capturing **

[19:57:44]

resno:

mag0o: dont say that....

[19:57:48]

mag0o:

:)

[19:58:09]

JEDIDIAH__:

My 150 got decommissioned when the backend it was in died.

[19:58:32]

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[19:58:47]

sphery:

though we are also now in the age where you can get a sufficiently powerful system that you don't need H.264 acceleration.

[19:58:52]

mag0o:

im cheap, and it was free

[19:58:57]

sphery:

and you can have all the benefits of software decoding

[19:59:00]

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[19:59:00]

meshe:

i have 2 350's and 2 150's in myth boxes

[19:59:10]

resno:

the recommended cards are: pvr-150 and hvr 1600?

[19:59:29]

meshe:

and another 150 still in it's box

[19:59:30]

JEDIDIAH__:

how big, how noisy, how hot, how expensive?

[19:59:30]

** resno waits for an forest of no **

[19:59:37]

AndrewNC:

I'm thinking of ditching my asus m3n78-em, onboard vdpau doesn't make up for other issues

[19:59:53]

meshe:

resno: for analog, 150 is the card

[19:59:58]

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[20:00:30]

sphery:

HVR-1600 is only good if you're afraid of used equipment/ebay or you want both analog and digital capture

[20:01:13]

resno:

sphery: i am afraid of buying a card linux doesnt support

[20:01:37]

resno:

sphery: and being stuck fighting with something that is never going to work... then migrating to windows

[20:01:50]

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[20:01:51]

meshe:

sphery: you can still buy them retail :) http://www.ncixus.com/products/36422/1062/HAUPPAUGE/

[20:01:59]

sphery:

I think everyone who buys an HVR-1600 for analog only capture should send a bill to the FCC (who forced Hauppauge to stop selling the PVR-x50's) for the $50 extra an HVR-1600 costs over a PVR-150

[20:02:19]

sphery:

meshe: not in the US

[20:02:31]

meshe:

that is a US site :)

[20:02:38]

sphery:

FCC it's giving a 404

[20:02:42]

sphery:

er, page is

[20:02:45]

wagnerrp:

meshe: id rather pat 1/3 price on ebay

[20:02:54]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i see it fine

[20:03:07]

sphery:

oh, trailing /

[20:03:13]

sphery:

stupid web server

[20:03:15]

resno:

meshe: is there any real benefit to having an hd capable card? since most of the cable is sd

[20:03:26]

meshe:

yeah, i bought 3 of them when they were on sale for $30

[20:03:37]

wagnerrp:

resno: there are no HD capable cards

[20:03:39]

sphery:

but the FCC forced Hauppauge to stop selling them in the US

[20:03:44]

meshe:

resno: don't ask me, I don't do HD yet :)

[20:03:49]

sphery:

so, any that you buy are remaining inventory or used

[20:03:52]

resno:

meshe: ah sorry

[20:04:12]

JEDIDIAH__:

is there a low profile box with a fast enough cpu to make vdpau moot?

[20:04:15]

resno:

wagnerrp: are you playing a word game?

[20:04:19]

sphery:

resno: SDTV can be digital, too

[20:04:28]

wagnerrp:

resno: no, there are no HD capable video capture cards

[20:04:37]

meshe:

JEDIDIAH__: Mac Mini

[20:04:37]

wagnerrp:

not supported by mythtv anyway

[20:04:51]

_ben:

JEDIDIAH__: i'd look at those ion boards

[20:04:53]

sphery:

resno: so it's basically whether you want an analog or digital capture card

[20:04:59]

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[20:05:03]

JEDIDIAH__:

a mac mini stutters on 720p content.

[20:05:05]

wagnerrp:

digital tuners are not HD capable, they just capture whatever data stream is broadcast to them

[20:05:16]

sphery:

resno: and whether your cable co encrypts digital channels is the factor you should use to determine which is more useful to you

[20:05:17]

wagnerrp:

and the HDPVR is an external USB device

[20:05:24]

resno:

ok, maybe i am misunderstanding. ive heard up to this point one computer spec for sd and another for hd, no i hear there is no hd?

[20:05:51]

sphery:

frontends can be hd-capable or not

[20:05:53]

wagnerrp:

digital tuners are technically not HD, they are just capturing data

[20:06:03]

meshe:

resno: which if you have a tv that can tune qam, you can find out if your digital cable is encrypted or not

[20:06:04]

sphery:

backends/recorders/tuners are just capturing data

[20:06:14]

JEDIDIAH__:

A 2.0 C2D isn't quite good enough.

[20:06:18]

sphery:

(unless you have a frame grabber, but you do /not/ want one of those in todays age)

[20:06:32]

resno:

sphery: i have a framegrabber :)

[20:06:43]

JEDIDIAH__:

A 2.83 C2Q works quite well though... '-)

[20:06:45]

wagnerrp:

JEDIDIAH__: a 2GHz C2D should do up to ~9–10mbps h264 per core

[20:06:53]

meshe:

no wonder you're having problems with your myth install

[20:07:00]

sphery:

but you're talking about getting a PVR-150 or HVR-1600, so when you do, you can put that framegrabber on the next rocket to the Sun

[20:07:03]

resno:

meshe: yea i figured that out earlier

[20:07:04]

_ben:

i'd have thought a C2D would be fine tbh

[20:07:25]

resno:

it was really cheap on ebay, so i bought it

[20:07:27]

sphery:

core 2 duo is great

[20:07:33]

sphery:

presuming you have enough speed in it

[20:07:40]

resno:

i was a broke college student

[20:07:46]

sphery:

i.e. 2.0GHz C2D is different from a 3.0GHz C2D

[20:08:08]

JEDIDIAH__:

obviously

[20:08:19]

wagnerrp:

and a 3GHz C2D is much the same as a 3GHz C2Q

[20:08:31]

sphery:

yep

[20:08:56]

JEDIDIAH__:

a mini can handle a lot of hdpvr stuff but some content (based on camera shots) yields stuttering on playback.

[20:09:36]

wagnerrp:

it all depends on the speed of the mini, and the bitrate of the hdpvr

[20:09:38]

JEDIDIAH__:

all takes is one show with a lot of pointless panning to blow the WAF straight out th window.

[20:09:39]

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[20:09:57]

wagnerrp:

p/i doesnt matter much, since that can be offloaded to the second core

[20:09:59]

** JEDIDIAH__ isn't terribly aggressive with the bitrates. **

[20:10:02]

resno:

when getting a tuner card the focus is digital or analog right?

[20:10:09]

_ben:

i was thinking about: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-364-AS

[20:10:17]

_ben:

what do people think for a frontend?

[20:10:28]

wagnerrp:

resno: decide what you want to record, and that tells you what type of tuner to get

[20:11:16]

wagnerrp:

_ben, looks rather noisy

[20:11:31]

resno:

wagnerrp: i thought i knew, but now i am confused. I have some hd channels I would like to record.

[20:11:45]

wagnerrp:

from what source?

[20:11:51]

resno:

wagnerrp: Cable.

[20:12:02]

JEDIDIAH__:

why not just get a whole revo if you are in the UK?

[20:12:02]

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[20:12:03]

wagnerrp:

are they local broadcast channels?

[20:12:16]

resno:

wagnerrp: yes. I am inthe US.

[20:12:21]

wagnerrp:

JEDIDIAH__: that board is less than half the cost

[20:12:28]

wagnerrp:

resno: that is not what i asked

[20:12:38]

JEDIDIAH__:

half the cost of a complete system.

[20:12:50]

resno:

wagnerrp: i was ansering two questions.

[20:12:56]

resno:

wagnerrp: so yes to your question

[20:13:01]

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[20:13:47]

_ben:

revo?

[20:13:55]

wagnerrp:

resno: then a digital tuner will do just fine

[20:14:06]

wagnerrp:

_ben: Acer

[20:14:06]

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[20:14:14]

** _ben googles **

[20:14:16]

wagnerrp:

Aspire Revo

[20:14:20]

resno:

wagnerrp: thanks for setting me straight.

[20:14:21]

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[20:14:23]

JEDIDIAH__:

it's the whole system based on a board like that

[20:14:51]

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[20:14:51]

_ben:

looks like a good idea tbh

[20:14:53]

wagnerrp:

resno: silicondust has a database (searchable by ZIP code) of what channels you can expect unencrypted over digital cable

[20:15:09]

_ben:

is there like a remote?

[20:15:52]

AndrewNC:

the MythMusic .22 notes say that the minplayer was converted to mythUI, does that refer to the default player screen, or is there some other player I'm not aware of?

[20:16:33]

iamlindoro:

Refers to the popup player that can be viewed from anywhere when you start music and exit choosing "keep playing"

[20:16:51]

wagnerrp:

the cheapest Revo i can find is $300, ranging up to $600 for some

[20:17:05]

JEDIDIAH__:

newegg has one for $200

[20:17:51]

wagnerrp:

indeed they do... wonder why google didnt pick them up

[20:18:05]

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[20:18:33]

wagnerrp:

... if only they had svideo out...

[20:19:05]

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[20:19:19]

_ben:

i'll have to think about that revo then :)

[20:19:37]

wagnerrp:

_ben: that reminds me, none of these onboard 8/9-series boards have svideo or composite out

[20:19:38]

wagnerrp:

VGA, DVI, and HDMI only

[20:19:54]

kormoc:

resno: we're using our own framework, aye

[20:20:03]

justinh:

grrr. If I have to field ONE more call from relatives with PC troubles

[20:20:13]

JEDIDIAH__:

dvi could work if it has the analog pins.

[20:20:29]

wagnerrp:

JEDIDIAH__: that gets you exactly the same thing as VGA

[20:20:39]

justinh:

somebody emailed my dad, and he got pwned. Didn't even open the email. Thanks hotmail & MSN Live. Bah

[20:20:44]

kormoc:

resno: if you're interested in helping out, I'd be glad to walk you though where we're heading

[20:20:48]

JEDIDIAH__:

never had any luck with VGA adaptors.

[20:21:01]

justinh:

doesn't matter how many bloody times you tell people not to use that junk

[20:21:26]

_ben:

what about the eee box?

[20:21:28]

clever:

justinh: edit his hosts file so the website refuses to load:P

[20:21:29]

resno:

kormoc: sure, id like that.

[20:21:51]

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[20:22:02]

wagnerrp:

looks like scan converters have come down in price considerably (but they suck)

[20:22:13]

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[20:23:12]

JEDIDIAH__:

the mac dvi -> svideo adaptor was not great but it seemed to work out ok

[20:23:28]

JEDIDIAH__:

although I wouldn't use it for my main TV

[20:23:44]

justinh:

JEDIDIAH__: wasn't so much a converter as a means of bringing the signals from the socket

[20:24:52]

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[20:25:17]

kormoc:

resno: first thing if you're going to hack on mythweb is really to install xdebug and firephp. Those are our recommended debugging utilities. If you're on a linux box (or a mac box via macports) kcachegrind is very useful

[20:26:43]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: is firephp some server-side module for firebug?

[20:26:46]

kormoc:

resno: I'm a fan of the multiton design pattern, so that's where we're headed with the core classes. This also allows us to hook into the cache layer much easier (when it's ready). We're working on removing all the force loaded calls and lazy load as much as we can, thus keeping the response rate low for ajax calls

[20:27:02]

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[20:27:02]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: aye, it allows you to debug in php and have it go to the firebug console rather then change your page render

[20:27:14]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: so it's a php module and a firebug plugin

[20:27:30]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, Catch the MythWeb season/episode stuff Joe Ripley submitted this AM?

[20:27:44]

kormoc:

Aye, I saw it

[20:27:50]

_ben:

So, if I got a revo and would my options be remote-wise?

[20:28:05]

kormoc:

I hope I have internet by tonight so I can fix up the few remaining bugs and get that in

[20:28:15]

wagnerrp:

_ben: anything USB... so typically a mceusb2

[20:28:20]

resno:

kormoc: i was just about to ask if you were doing any caching

[20:28:26]

_ben:

OK, ta :)

[20:28:45]

wagnerrp:

(over here) you can pick them up on newegg for $25

[20:29:07]

kormoc:

resno: right now, we're not, I have a generic cache layer committed, but it needs a little more work and then we should be able to cache transparently to memcache/shm/whatever

[20:29:07]

** JEDIDIAH__ fancies the streamzap **

[20:30:02]

kormoc:

I'm still debating if it should be the layer to handle the multiton stuff or not.

[20:30:44]

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[20:31:32]

jheizer:

Revo looks bad ass. Hadn't seen it when I was looking for a box along those lines the other day

[20:32:00]

sphery:

people actually have MythWeb sites that weigh /more/ than a ton?

[20:32:07]

wagnerrp:

jheizer: it was the big thing about 4 months ago

[20:32:13]

kormoc:

sphery: totally ;)

[20:32:15]

iamlindoro:

I heard MythWeb makes excessive and inappropriate use of Ajax

[20:32:22]

iamlindoro:

and that it's ridiculous

[20:32:33]

jheizer:

Anyone happen to know if the 230 likes full screen flash under windows ex: hulu

[20:32:42]

xris:

iamlindoro: I loved that bug...

[20:32:46]

JEDIDIAH__:

the revo was first announced a few months back... this seems to be it finally coming on the market

[20:32:54]

wagnerrp:

jheizer: probably not

[20:32:55]

xris:

iamlindoro: funny thing is that we moved to ajax to *improve* performance.. (and it did)

[20:32:59]

jheizer:

yeah, just completely missed it last week

[20:33:01]

iamlindoro:

xris, Yeah, wondered if I was going to get in trouble w/ my closing message :)

[20:33:19]

xris:

iamlindoro: no, I would have been less nice. heh

[20:33:26]

sphery:

iamlindoro: and they should have made it so that it waits a little bit before sending the AJAX requests (like they did 18mos ago)

[20:33:27]

xris:

well, more explainey...

[20:34:42]

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[20:35:25]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, I wish MythVideo had "a few remaining bugs" :)

[20:35:45]

iamlindoro:

though in fairness it has fewer bugs that anyone but I know about lately

[20:35:53]

kormoc:

heh

[20:35:54]

dustybin:

jeeze, its gone up to 91%

[20:36:06]

kormoc:

my pile is long, my trac tickets are short ;)

[20:37:06]

kormoc:

resno: so right now my push is faster/slimmer rather then features

[20:37:28]

resno:

kormoc: i gotcha.

[20:37:29]

dustybin:

kormoc: thats what apples os x snow leopard did

[20:38:09]

kormoc:

resno: I take it you have a bit of php webdev history?

[20:38:11]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: does it actually run faster and slimmer? or is it just more parallel? there is a difference

[20:38:35]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: havent tried it, still using leopard, will test it in 6 months maybe

[20:40:26]

wagnerrp:

WTF... my keyboard just died

[20:41:19]

wagnerrp:

had to unplug/plug it back in

[20:41:23]

wagnerrp:

that was odd

[20:41:28]

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[20:41:58]

resno:

kormoc: you take it correctly

[20:42:24]

resno:

kormoc: i wont say i am an expert, but if given a task i work though it

[20:42:38]

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[20:44:15]

kormoc:

resno: do you prefer frontend or backend work?

[20:44:23]

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[20:45:07]

messerting:

wagnerrp: same happened to me an hour back or so

[20:45:31]

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[20:46:18]

wagnerrp:

messerting: yeah, but i could use my keyboard to bash yours to pieces

[20:46:27]

wagnerrp:

after 20 years of use, one wouldnt expect it to fail now

[20:46:40]

messerting:

hehe :)

[20:46:41]

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[20:47:05]

messerting:

annoying bug in X or evdev or whatever it is called I guess

[20:48:30]

resno:

kormoc: id say i am more of a front end, but i work both on projects

[20:49:04]

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[20:49:20]

dustybin:

im a backend kind of guy

[20:49:31]

** mag0o saw that coming from somewhere **

[20:49:38]

resno:

dustybin: that came out weird for some reason

[20:49:53]

messerting:

anyway – I have enabled multirec, and am able to watch 5 channels at the same time (pip) from one multiplex (yay!).

[20:50:15]

justinh:

you can't use PiP with more than 2

[20:50:18]

messerting:

however, if I watch livetv, and one recording starts (on the same multiplex), mythtv wants me to choose what to do – continue to watch, or cancel the recording, or go back to the menu

[20:50:20]

justinh:

loon

[20:50:28]

messerting:

in trunk I can :)

[20:50:29]

wagnerrp:

resno: hes likes to screw women in an uncomfortable location

[20:50:30]

justinh:

serves you right for using livetv :)

[20:50:47]

messerting:

haha, don't forget about GF's

[20:50:55]

justinh:

wha? some crazy added that to trunk?

[20:50:57]

messerting:

and mother in laws

[20:50:57]

** Penth is thinking about a GeForce 8400GS card for S-Video output to an analog tv. Has anyone used one? **

[20:51:01]

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[20:51:09]

justinh:

messerting: doesn't make it right that it's possible :P

[20:51:21]

wagnerrp:

you completely missed it.... youre supposed to question 'like the back of a volkswagen?'

[20:51:36]

wagnerrp:

Penth: using one currently

[20:51:59]

justinh:

got to be kidding about multiway picture tricks in trunk. shurely shome mishtake

[20:52:21]

messerting:

but forget about all those PiPs

[20:52:25]

Penth:

Which card? I'm more trusting of EVGA than Sparkle, but looking for experienced opinions

[20:52:44]

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[20:52:58]

wagnerrp:

asus, 512MB G98 fanless

[20:53:42]

wagnerrp:

i also have a sparkle PCI 512MB fanless (second one after the first one failed)

[20:53:43]

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[20:54:11]

sphery:

messerting: you either need to enable "Avoid conflicts between LiveTV and recordings" or exit LiveTV when you're told to exit

[20:54:25]

wagnerrp:

anyone know much about antenna?

[20:54:38]

Penth:

Didn't see the asus on NewEgg. I'm using an old P4 box as the frontend, so it has to be PCI

[20:54:40]

messerting:

sphery: aha, thanks

[20:54:43]

resno:

wagnerrp: yea antenna is one of my good friends

[20:55:02]

resno:

wagnerrp:jsut for your info, dont ask to ask ;)

[20:55:07]

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[20:55:29]

wagnerrp:

any idea why a homemade antenna that works great for UHF would not work for VHF bands

[20:55:32]

messerting:

Penth: I had a Asus EAH3450 (ATI Radeon HD 3450), and tried to do TV-out (s-video). That was some crappy shit that never worked

[20:55:39]

wagnerrp:

!trout wagnerrp self-advice

[20:55:39]

** MythLogBot slaps wagnerrp with a self-advice trout on behalf of wagnerrp... **

[20:55:46]

justinh:

wagnerrp: yeah. tuning

[20:55:56]

justinh:

wagnerrp: wavelengths & science crap

[20:56:01]

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[20:56:04]

wagnerrp:

watching the signal strength indicator, it shows up just as high on the two VHF bands as it does on the UHF bands

[20:56:08]

wagnerrp:

(actually higher than most)

[20:56:21]

justinh:

digital? signal strength indicators lie

[20:56:38]

wagnerrp:

well it should at least be accurate to itself shouldnt it?

[20:56:48]

justinh:

strength != quality

[20:56:50]

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[20:56:56]

wagnerrp:

i mean a '100' is better than a '90' is better than a '50'

[20:57:03]

justinh:

not necessarily

[20:57:10]

justinh:

s/n & BER / CER are king

[20:57:31]

justinh:

no point having a 100 signal if the signal to noise ratio is mush

[20:57:39]

justinh:

same BER wise too

[20:57:46]

messerting:

aren't UHF and VHF at different frequencies, and thus needs different antennas..?

[20:57:54]

justinh:

myers

[20:58:25]

justinh:

hance my comment about science stuff & tuning ;)

[20:58:33]

justinh:

*hence

[20:59:02]

_ben:

so do i get a revo with 1GB ram?

[20:59:09]

justinh:

antenna elements are designed with the wavelength of the frequencies received in mind

[20:59:16]

_ben:

or get the one with windows that has 2GB?

[20:59:17]

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[20:59:58]

messerting:

_ben: you buy the cheapest one, and also buy extra ram. In Norway that's a big saver at least. ~100 EURO

[21:00:01]

resno:

kormoc: so do you have a place to see what needs work for mythweb?

[21:00:07]

justinh:

windows is more fun. think of all the time you can spend de-pwning it :P

[21:01:10]

wagnerrp:

some weird guy with a flatbed just pulled up wanting our old pallets

[21:01:26]

wagnerrp:

anyway, i knew about different antenna for different wavelengths

[21:01:35]

wagnerrp:

just found it odd that i would be getting high strength and no signal

[21:01:44]

kormoc:

resno: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/query?status=accep . . . ol=milestone

[21:01:51]

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[21:02:49]

kormoc:

resno: I'll be adding more tickets for goals if you'd like, as right now it's all in my head :)

[21:03:54]

resno:

kormoc: whats the best way to contact you? irc?

[21:04:04]

kormoc:

resno: irc works great, aye

[21:05:01]

JEDIDIAH__:

try the stock 1G revo first and upgrade it later if you want.

[21:06:02]

resno:

kormoc: where do find most of problems? just messing with it or via irc?

[21:06:14]

kormoc:

both? ;)

[21:06:29]

resno:

kormoc: im curious why there arent many submitted tickets.

[21:06:50]

kormoc:

Well, the majority of tickets are bug reports, and I get to them fairly fast

[21:07:10]

resno:

ah, i see.

[21:07:18]

resno:

kormoc: err, aye.

[21:07:51]

resno:

\whois resno

[21:08:16]

resno:

!whois resno

[21:08:28]

resno:

i can never remember irc commands LOL

[21:08:36]

wagnerrp:

so i guess i just need to put together a separate VHF antenna, and buy a combiner

[21:08:47]

kormoc:

resno: /

[21:09:21]

resno:

kormoc: thatll do it

[21:09:40]

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[21:13:16]

resno:

kormoc: if you dont mind me asking, why was perl chosen in place of python?

[21:13:18]

sphery:

kormoc: on #7199 , isn't it supported in 5.2+ and we're targetting 5.1+ ?

[21:13:33]

kormoc:

bah!

[21:13:43]

kormoc:

Doing too many things at once ;)

[21:14:12]

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[21:14:33]

sphery:

resno: I'd guess at the time Perl was chosen because Perl bindings were way ahead of Python bindings (Python bindings were unusable at the time), since then, though, the Python bindings have become more usable than the Perl bindings.

[21:14:41]

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[21:15:13]

kormoc:

resno: in place of python for what specifically?

[21:15:15]

sphery:

kormoc: at least changing a ticket description is easier than changing a wrong commit message :)

[21:15:15]

resno:

sphery: of course, such is problem with programming languages..

[21:15:28]

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[21:15:40]

resno:

kormoc: i was curious as to why perl was choosen in place of python.

[21:15:47]

sphery:

resno: if you happen to be a Perl coder, we need someone to go through the Perl bindings and catch them up to the Python bindings... :)

[21:15:54]

kormoc:

resno: for what part? the streaming code?

[21:16:27]

resno:

kormoc: i am not speaking specfically. more generally.

[21:16:32]

meshe:

yeah, the person that was going to work on the perl bindings has been slacking off

[21:16:59]

kormoc:

resno: well, we have both perl and python bindings, so it wasn't really a choice of one over the other...

[21:17:03]

wagnerrp:

i was under the impression mythweb did not use the perl bindings at all

[21:17:07]

kormoc:

it doesn't

[21:17:22]

kormoc:

it does use perl for the streaming/flash streaming

[21:17:38]

resno:

kormoc: someone before said its uses perl and php.

[21:17:51]

resno:

kormoc: only those.

[21:18:00]

kormoc:

resno: aye, mythweb uses perl for just streaming of video data

[21:18:37]

resno:

kormoc: what does python handle then?

[21:18:46]

kormoc:

resno: for mythweb, nothing at all

[21:18:51]

resno:

kormoc: aye

[21:19:11]

kormoc:

so you're wondering why perl was chosen over python for video file streaming?

[21:19:14]

Hiisty:

i have following error sometimes when i try to start mythbackend " mythbackend: Problem with capture cards: Card 1failed init" sometimes it starts nicely, but after awhile (~24h) it stops using my card

[21:19:50]

Hiisty:

it has worked fine before, nothing has changed

[21:20:01]

Hiisty:

it is mystery to me

[21:20:22]

resno:

kormoc: i forget myth has been around for years...

[21:20:43]

Hiisty:

so question is, is that mythtv problem, or is my card broken

[21:21:27]

wagnerrp:

ok, so i was confused about VHF, because people using the same homemade antenna claimed good VHF performance, while the VHF performance was actually provided by the reflector grid

[21:21:33]

kormoc:

resno: and even now, I'd wager that perl is much more common on webservers then python is

[21:22:06]

wagnerrp:

the antenna is basically half of this http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html

[21:22:08]

resno:

kormoc: you dont think thats changing now?

[21:22:54]

** kormoc shrugs **

[21:23:13]

DjMadness|Lap:

Anyone know if i need to do something speciel to get teletext working ? I've set it to pal and /dev/vbi0 (ive also chmodded it to 777) however none of the channels get teletext. (I've used thirdparty applications before on this tv card witch has worked for it, however i would like to use mythtv for it) The channels i am trying it on do have teletext sent over the cable. I've searched the web however no luck.

[21:23:25]

kormoc:

I haven't really read one way or the other, I just know that python's only getting hawt recently vs years of perl entrenchment

[21:23:42]

sphery:

meshe: yeah, that perl coder is probably out actually living a life or something

[21:24:22]

Hiisty:

can someone give me pointer how i could debug my problem?

[21:24:59]

justinh:

DjMadness|Lap: you need to configure the vbi device in mythtv-setup along with your tuner card – hint: it's on the same setup page

[21:25:36]

meshe:

sphery: yeah, what a friggin slacker ;)

[21:25:47]

sphery:

Hiisty: sounds like a problem with either your card or your card drivers or your system's udev/card-initialization/firmware-upload configuration

[21:26:47]

Hiisty:

sphery: hmm, card drivers are the same as before

[21:27:00]

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[21:27:04]

justinh:

no automagical upgrades in the background?

[21:27:21]

sphery:

including kernel upgrades

[21:27:28]

Hiisty:

justinh: no, not that i know of

[21:27:53]

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[21:28:02]

Hiisty:

well kernel has changed

[21:28:13]

justinh:

ah

[21:28:49]

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[21:28:51]

justinh:

I guess your definition of "nothing has changed" is different to mine :P

[21:29:23]

DjMadness|Lap:

justinh: i have set the vbi device to /dev/vbi0 and set it to "pal teletext" witch i had allready made sure i had done before i asked.

[21:29:24]

sphery:

kernel change means new driver

[21:29:44]

Hiisty:

justinh: yes, i ment that i haven't changed my mythtv-configuration, sorry about that :)

[21:30:29]

justinh:

I'm not fussed either way. any help you get here is only based on what info you give after all

[21:30:44]

sphery:

Hiisty: yes, and the problems you're having point to something below/outside of myth as the problem

[21:30:55]

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[21:31:02]

justinh:

*failure to mention anything when questioned.. yada yada ;)

[21:31:37]

jduggan:

justinh, record flashforward? :)

[21:31:50]

justinh:

yeah. wife is watching ****ing Doc Martin

[21:31:58]

jduggan:

hehe

[21:31:58]

resno|away:

flashforward is a good show!

[21:32:01]

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[21:32:15]

justinh:

resno|away: when did it get cancelled?

[21:32:36]

Hiisty:

ok, so i should somehow try to monitor what happens when the card just stops working

[21:32:37]

resno|away:

justinh: canceled? it just started

[21:32:40]

jduggan:

i recorded two shows at the same time this evening, waking the dead 9–10pm, flashforward 9–10pm, bbc1 recording is 1.7gb more in size :)

[21:32:54]

justinh:

oh I thought if any US shows were any good they get cancelled :P

[21:33:01]

jduggan:

hehehe

[21:33:21]

resno|away:

justinh: what shows do you think are good that got cancelled?

[21:33:21]

kormoc:

funny, we think the same... ;)

[21:33:29]

meshe:

justinh: they usually make it a season though

[21:33:34]

_ben:

heh

[21:33:40]

justinh:

resno|away: Heroes didn't get cancelled, nor did Lost :P

[21:33:40]

_ben:

i quite liked the mentalist

[21:33:57]

justinh:

that makes me think that anything good doesn't get cancelled

[21:34:05]

resno|away:

id like to know what shows you considered good. if that got cancelled someone didnt like it

[21:34:06]

meshe:

Life

[21:34:39]

justinh:

I've not bothered getting into much US TV lately, on account of shows I used to like going soft

[21:34:58]

justinh:

only a matter of time before Chuck gets ruined

[21:35:02]

resno|away:

justinh: well US tv is all i have ;)

[21:35:35]

justinh:

bless

[21:35:52]

sphery:

justinh: Lost didn't get cancelled because it had a cunning plan--after 1 good season, it did 3 bad seasons to ensure it wouldn't be cancelled, then went back to a good season for #5

[21:36:02]

justinh:

heh

[21:36:07]

resno|away:

justinh: i just read chuck was almost cancelled LOL

[21:36:33]

justinh:

the words 'slow burner' mean nothing to US schedulers, obviously

[21:38:43]

justinh:

hell, if Flash Forward proves to be a ratings winner Sky will end up outbidding Channel Five

[21:39:31]

jduggan:

just like House

[21:39:34]

jduggan:

and i'll be mad

[21:39:36]

jduggan:

!

[21:39:55]

justinh:

hmmm. I can copywrite their ad blurb

[21:40:01]

justinh:

don't get mad. GET SKY

[21:40:03]

justinh:

:D

[21:40:13]

jduggan:

lol

[21:40:25]

jduggan:

i considered it

[21:40:32]

jduggan:

but its so not worth it unless i pay for sports channels

[21:40:34]

_ben:

sky :/

[21:40:36]

jduggan:

and then thats just silly money

[21:40:41]

jduggan:

so overall... nah

[21:40:53]

justinh:

boxsets ftw

[21:41:34]

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[21:42:06]

justinh:

ooo we can send Sky our box set receipts to show them what they would've won

[21:43:13]

_ben:

aren't the adverts on sky horrendous?

[21:43:26]

_ben:

yes, i know we can skip them but when you pay for tv ....

[21:43:28]

justinh:

I hear they put them all on at the same time

[21:43:59]

_ben:

i mean i pay my tv license quite happily cos there's no ad crap on the beeb

[21:44:10]

justinh:

yet. wait a while

[21:44:20]

justinh:

we'll still have to pay the license fee though

[21:44:34]

_ben:

why would they show ads?

[21:44:47]

justinh:

when the govt cuts em off from the license fee

[21:45:09]

justinh:

< natural born cynic ;)

[21:45:22]

_ben:

Hm :)

[21:45:23]

kormoc:

Nature or Nurture, you decide!

[21:45:32]

_ben:

can't see it happening tbh

[21:45:50]

_ben:

one of the few things the UK have kinda done right are the BBC and the NHS :p

[21:46:06]

justinh:

and one is totally screwed. the other is on the way

[21:47:17]

justinh:

all these people railing against the bbc because of the license fee are all sadly very mistaken

[21:47:51]

justinh:

and it's Murdoch behind a lot of it. no idea what he might possibly have against the beeb... hrm

[21:48:51]

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[21:50:21]

** jduggan thinks what original programming sky have made worth watching **

[21:50:37]

jduggan:

only thing i can think of are the ross kemp episodes ;P

[21:50:42]

jduggan:

i enjoyed anyway

[21:51:34]

justinh:

heh

[21:51:58]

justinh:

funny seeing him genuinely scared by the nutbags he meets isn't it? oh such a tough guy

[21:52:10]

jduggan:

lol

[21:52:52]

_ben:

if it wasn't for sky where would you get your fix of sheriff john bunnell

[21:53:09]

justinh:

who?

[21:53:23]

jduggan:

my thoughts exactly

[21:54:07]

_ben:

oh, you must know who he is

[21:54:12]

justinh:

nope

[21:54:16]

_ben:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bunnell

[21:54:39]

justinh:

oh that c***

[21:54:43]

_ben:

:))

[21:54:57]

_ben:

his stupid phrases

[21:55:11]

justinh:

silly merkins

[21:55:42]

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[21:56:06]

jduggan:

lolol

[21:56:17]

jduggan:

whats great is how you memorised his name

[21:56:18]

jduggan:

:

[21:56:19]

jduggan:

D

[21:56:26]

justinh:

lol he was only a sheriff for 6 months? wasn't even elected? Ha

[21:56:33]

jduggan:

hehe

[21:57:43]

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iamlindoro:

Great, f-myth-users has shown up to tell us how trac should be run.

[21:59:52]

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[21:59:59]

_ben:

f? fedora?

[22:00:30]

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[22:00:53]

iamlindoro:

Nope, just plain F

[22:01:35]

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[22:03:17]

Keli:

I have a fresh installation of Mythbuntu 9.04. when running mythtranscode I get the error: ICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = somepid, errno = 32

[22:03:27]

Keli:

anyone familiar with this?

[22:04:07]

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[22:08:49]

Keli:

and I now see that it only happens when mythtranscode is run in xterm or as a process spawned by an X application but not when I remotely log in via ssh and run it in the shell there

[22:08:58]

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[22:10:53]

sphery:

Keli: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde . . . 5/comments/3 (short story: sudo rm -f ~/.ICEauthority )

[22:11:22]

sphery:

might need to restart X if taking the rm approach

[22:11:57]

Keli:

sphery: ok tnx, seems to be an old bug! 2004

[22:12:11]

clever:

sphery: id check the env variables

[22:12:22]

clever:

if ssh isnt doing it, then theres a env variable pointing to that file

[22:13:05]

clever:

SESSION_MANAGER=local/oldghost:/tmp/.ICE-unix/8576

[22:13:09]

clever:

posibly that one

[22:14:02]

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[22:14:07]

sphery:

clever: it doesn't matter--his file is owned by the wrong user, so it doesn't get used properly

[22:14:13]

clever:

ahh

[22:14:19]

sphery:

it needs fixed--regardless of which environment variables are referencing it

[22:14:29]

clever:

if its owned by the wrong user, then HOME is screwed up(or sudo is being used wrong)

[22:14:44]

sphery:

Keli: it may not still be k3b that's changing it, but something broke it

[22:14:44]

clever:

never run text editors with sudo

[22:15:16]

sphery:

clever: in the bug I ref'ed, an app was changing it

[22:15:40]

clever:

hold on while i fight with squid

[22:15:51]

Keli:

well the named pipe referenced by SESSION_MANAGER env is owned by the user running mythtranscode

[22:16:07]

clever:

sudo k3bsetup

[22:16:12]

clever:

if its owned by the wrong user, then HOME is screwed up(or sudo is being used wrong)

[22:16:12]

sphery:

get rid of ~/.ICEauthority and restart X

[22:16:30]

clever:

if your running 'special' things like kde under sudo, ALWAYS USE -H

[22:16:39]

clever:

wine has similar problems

[22:16:59]

clever:

-H will change HOME, so it edits root's home dir, and not your own

[22:17:25]

sphery:

clever: better to tell the Ubuntu maintainers than me... I've /never/ had that problem. :)

[22:17:40]

clever:

sphery: the same problem can in theory come from using sudo on text editors

[22:17:50]

clever:

which may change your config files to be root owned, and lock you out

[22:17:56]

clever:

in that case, use sudoedit

[22:17:57]

sphery:

but best would be to find out what exactly people are doing that breaks it and gets ubuntu blamed

[22:18:34]

sphery:

so that ubuntu can prevent them from doing the wrong thing or make a way for them to do the thing right

[22:18:48]

clever:

in that ticket, i can see the exact problem is a lack of sudo -H, or incorrect group perms that would half solved it ahead of time

[22:18:53]

Keli:

well I've not used sudo to run anything, all I did was install mythbuntu 9.04, record some shows, and then use mytharchive, just saw this in the logs and was then able to replicate it

[22:19:30]

clever:

gksudo and friends may handle things better

[22:19:34]

sphery:

and did sudo rm -f ~/.ICEauthority then restarting X fix it?

[22:19:35]

clever:

since they are designed for gui app's

[22:19:37]

sphery:

if so, no worries

[22:19:55]

Keli:

spehery: X is just starting up, about to test

[22:19:57]

sphery:

and we can go back to talking about myth-related things in here :)

[22:20:32]

sphery:

(not that you shouldn't ask the question--just that we've gone way beyond myth-related in talking about how to fix some random bug from 5 years ago)

[22:20:47]

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[22:20:54]

clever:

dang, didnt even look at the timestamp

[22:22:19]

Keli:

now running mythtranscode

[22:24:55]

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[22:29:01]

Keli:

sphery: removing .ICEauthority and restarting X does not fix this, but just removing .ICEauthority and running mythtranscode works (except for warnings about unable to authenticate), but then restarting X regenerates .ICEauthority and it fails again

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[22:32:07]

clever:

Keli: what is $HOME, and what user owns that file?

[22:32:59]

Keli:

clever: $HOME points to /home/myther and myther:myther owns the .ICEauthority file with perms 600

[22:33:26]

clever:

and mythtranscode runs as myther?

[22:34:25]

Keli:

clever: yes

[22:34:42]

clever:

should be working:S

[22:34:57]

Keli:

here is a description of exacly the same problem, with more debug

[22:35:04]

Keli:

http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /144712.html

[22:35:47]

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[22:36:17]

Keli:

mythtranscode is apparently a Qt based app, using QApplication, and this happens in the QApplication destructor

[22:36:57]

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[22:37:15]

clever:

yeah everything in myth is qt based

[22:38:01]

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[22:42:04]

sphery:

Keli: don't know who's breaking your ICEAuthority, but if you want to change code to sweep the problem under the rug: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6257#comment:2

[22:42:34]

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[22:43:11]

Keli:

sphery: I just downloaded the source deb for myth-transcode-utils :)

[22:45:35]

rushfan:

CAn anyone here help me figure out why mythtv compilation is failing on this error:

[22:45:38]

rushfan:

../../libs/libmyth/libmyth-0.22.so: undefined reference to `vtable for soundtouch::TDStretchMMX'

[22:47:51]

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[22:47:58]

sphery:

rushfan: Is this a clean working copy? If not (if you've /ever/ built Myth in it), make distclean. If you svn switch'ed a 0.21-fixes working copy to trunk, then there's other cleanup you need to do.

[22:48:35]

sphery:

and if you've ever had Myth installed on your system before, make sure you completely remove any old versions

[22:48:36]

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[22:49:36]

sphery:

rushfan: i.e. uninstall with package managers /and/ rm -rf /usr/{,local/}lib/{mythtv,libmyth*}

[22:50:07]

_ben:

whats all /this/ stuff? :P

[22:51:02]

sphery:

the /and/ or the bash glob

[22:51:29]

sphery:

the and is just emphasizing that some stuff may be left after getting rid of packages

[22:52:02]

sphery:

the glob just gets all the myth libs whether they're in /usr or /usr/local

[22:52:02]

Keli:

rushfan: in Qt based apps, udefined vtable reference is often a sign of moc/#include problems

[22:52:58]

rushfan:

Keli: so I'm missing a Qt library?

[22:53:24]

iamlindoro:

No. As sphery suggested, you're likely building from unclean source

[22:53:25]

Keli:

rushfan: more likely an error in the makefiles and/or .pro files

[22:54:36]

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[22:55:29]

rushfan:

Keli: the command Im running is: qmake-qt4 PREFIX=/usr/local mythtv.pro

[22:55:34]

rushfan:

Keli: should I file a bug report?

[22:55:51]

kormoc:

No. As sphery suggested, you're likely building from unclean source

[22:56:19]

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[22:56:45]

iamlindoro:

I'm excited to answer the question "How many myth devs have to say it's unclean source/an unclean tree to get someone to listen"

[22:56:59]

Keli:

rushfan: first try to get a fresh sourcetree

[22:57:14]

iamlindoro:

just distclean the one you have

[22:57:42]

sphery:

and if you svn switched, let us know

[22:57:44]

kormoc:

I was waiting for sphery to say "No. As sphery suggested, you're likely building from unclean source"

[22:57:46]

laga:

if you need me, i'm here to assert the same

[22:58:09]

sphery:

kormoc: oh, I wish I was that creative... that would have been legend...wait for it...

[22:58:19]

sphery:

dary

[22:58:43]

rushfan:

See it still breaks

[22:58:59]

rushfan:

I've checked over and over that anything from past installations was gone and gotten a fresh svn checkout.

[22:59:02]

sphery:

how and when did you get the working copy

[22:59:15]

rushfan:

sphery: from SVN compiled god knows how long ago

[22:59:21]

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[22:59:51]

rushfan:

sphery: when I first had problems my initial reaction was make distclean, but that didn't work so I just got a totally fresh checkout

[22:59:59]

sphery:

rushfan: make distclean && find . -name 'Makefile' -delete && svn revert -R .

[23:00:43]

sphery:

and note that if that doesn't fix it, there's a /very/ good chance it's due to your having both Qt3 and Qt4 installed and not properly specifying how to use Qt4

[23:01:02]

sphery:

(which I can't help you with because I don't use your distro)

[23:01:22]

rushfan:

sphery: I thought once you told it qmake-qt4 PREFIX=/usr/local mythtv.pro it knew to use qt4?

[23:01:47]

sphery:

ttbomk, you have to tell configure stuff

[23:02:04]

sphery:

"stuff" is as specific as my knowledge of the matter gets

[23:02:17]

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[23:02:19]

rushfan:

sphery: fair enough, I'll just read through the ./configure --help output

[23:02:56]

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[23:03:08]

rushfan:

The thing is I'm reading distro specific directions so it should be there if I have to, but then again its the wiki so god knows how accurate it is anymore

[23:03:25]

rushfan:

Yeah its still busting so I'll have to find a new tree to bark up

[23:03:44]

kormoc:

you could, you know, pastebin the entire output for us to peer at

[23:03:45]

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[23:05:09]

iamlindoro:

trac is on its way to crashing, I can feel it

[23:05:16]

iamlindoro:

it's turned to molasses and e-mails aren't going out

[23:05:19]

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[23:05:36]

rushfan:

kormoc: ok

[23:05:39]

iamlindoro:

That or gmail is down again

[23:06:05]

rushfan:

http://fpaste.org/OcNK/

[23:06:47]

iamlindoro:

need to see configure options

[23:07:56]

rushfan:

iamlindoro: http://fpaste.org/Jko8/

[23:08:45]

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[23:08:49]

govatent:

hey guys

[23:09:20]

govatent:

has anyone tried using composite inputs on a pvr-150?

[23:09:33]

meshe:

yup

[23:10:07]

govatent:

any help for me? I made a source and everything for it but when i press C it says it can't display the video

[23:10:41]

govatent:

of course i can view the input using vlc but would like it as a input channel in mythtv

[23:11:59]

meshe:

i was just going to say make sure it works outside of myth

[23:12:05]

govatent:

yea i did not

[23:12:07]

govatent:

i did that

[23:12:09]

govatent:

sry

[23:12:09]

meshe:

but you have that covered

[23:12:12]

govatent:

ye

[23:12:20]

govatent:

i used google to find out how to try it

[23:12:38]

meshe:

not in front of a myth box atm, so I'm not sure I can help

[23:12:51]

govatent:

i was able to play my sega in vlc and capture video using the cat command

[23:13:12]

govatent:

just no luck getting it working in mythtv along side my tv

[23:13:19]

Keli:

govatent: have you assigned a channel number to the composite input?

[23:13:41]

govatent:

yea, channel 1

[23:14:08]

Keli:

govatent: and you can't switch to channel 1?

[23:14:33]

govatent:

when i try myth just kicks to the main menu

[23:14:48]

Keli:

govatent: what does the log say?

[23:15:05]

Keli:

govatent: /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log I guess

[23:15:06]

govatent:

let me open it now. i did not check the log

[23:15:39]

meshe:

it's most likely a permissions error

[23:15:44]

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[23:15:52]

smithna:

Hi, I am having a new issue with my remote — I'm getting the following in my log files: "LIRC, Error: Failed to connect to Unix socket '/dev/lircd'". Even though "irw" works as expected...

[23:16:30]

rushfan:

smithna: ls -la /dev | grep lircd plz

[23:17:26]

smithna:

srw-rw-rw- 1 root root 0 2009-09–14 18:51 lircd=

[23:18:03]

rushfan:

I dont think the perms on there should be root root although I could be wrong

[23:18:06]

** smithna doesn't think rushfan needs to say 'plz' as I'm the one asking for help... **

[23:18:25]

rushfan:

smithna: I'

[23:18:31]

rushfan:

smithna: I try to stay on the up-and-up with HR

[23:18:56]

rushfan:

You know just because I'm trying to help you it doesn't me I have to be a jerk. Anyhow can you pastebin two things for me... lsmod and dmesg | grep lirc please?

[23:19:53]

sphery:

govatent: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/232857#232857

[23:19:55]

rushfan:

smithna: And is there an error number there after the failed to connect message, in the form or eno: x ?

[23:20:00]

Keli:

govatent: I have a separate sources for the tuner and composite inputs on my card, the composite input has no grabber, I then have an input connection for the composite input to the composite source, it is set to starting channel 0, in the channel editor I then have created a channel for composite, with channel number 0 using the composite video source

[23:20:09]

sphery:

govatent: and note that the delay will kill you in video games

[23:20:59]

govatent:

I figured that would be a problem with video games. In most cases, i was hoping to also using for vhs-mpeg capture

[23:21:08]

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[23:21:13]

sphery:

really, myth is the wrong tool for the job

[23:21:21]

sphery:

dd or cat are /much/ better tools

[23:21:21]

smithna:

rushfan: yes there is — it's eno: Connection refused (111)

[23:22:35]

max__:

Hello. My dad has setup mythtv on his desktop, and when I asked him if I could change the directory where recorded shows go to, he told me I could save recordings on my computer. Only thing is, he told me to figure out how to do this. I've been trying to figure it out for quite some time but I have yet to determine a way of going about this task. I am running Mac OS-X 10.5.6

[23:22:43]

sphery:

rushfan: don't use --arch=native , use --enable-proc-opts instead

[23:22:44]

govatent:

yea i was using cat for a while now just decided to play with myth for the input

[23:22:50]

rushfan:

sphery: thanks

[23:22:56]

Keli:

sphery: true, except you loose the nice and simple burn to dvd that myth has if you use it to record

[23:23:17]

sphery:

Keli: you can put it into Myth after you record it, just don't use Myth to record

[23:23:25]

sphery:

myth is good for recording from sources with guide data

[23:23:27]

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[23:23:35]

Keli:

(thats what I'm doing but mytharchive fails on mythtranscode :)

[23:23:36]

sphery:

without, you really need an interactive recording program

[23:23:43]

sphery:

heh

[23:23:51]

smithna:

rushfan: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1583424

[23:25:42]

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[23:25:55]

rushfan:

smithna: you have my remote, whihc I never got working, so I'm afraid I wont be much help of anyone :|

[23:25:58]

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[23:26:45]

max__:

anyone?

[23:27:04]

smithna:

rushfan: That's ok... But, I do have some good news 4 yah... I has worked, in fact it was working last night. So I'm sure we can get it working again.

[23:27:22]

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[23:27:39]

kormoc:

max__: what are you after exactly? Having myth record directly to your desktop or you copying files over or what?

[23:27:57]

max__:

I'd like mythtv to record directly to my hard drive.

[23:28:26]

kormoc:

max__: so setup a nfs export on your desktop, mount it on the backend and have the backend record to that mount point

[23:28:41]

max__:

uhmm..

[23:28:48]

govatent:

well i found my problems in the log. I did something wrong trying to make the channel to the input. now i have to figure that out.

[23:28:49]

max__:

how do I do all that?

[23:28:55]

meshe:

and don't mess with the files except through myth

[23:29:11]

kormoc:

max__: google knows?

[23:29:13]

jblack:

writing to an nfs mount sounds.... painful

[23:29:21]

kormoc:

jblack: it's not that bad

[23:29:22]

** kormoc shrugs **

[23:29:23]

max__:

heh.

[23:29:25]

smithna:

max__: Why do you want to record shows on YOUR HD?

[23:29:43]

max__:

There's little to no space left on his HD.

[23:29:54]

jblack:

kormoc: 802.11g here. :)

[23:30:07]

kormoc:

jblack: then yes, it'd be a tad painful :P

[23:30:10]

jblack:

I can't even stream without transcoding.

[23:30:12]

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[23:30:21]

meshe:

max__: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO.html#toc23.10

[23:30:45]

max__:

Okay, where do I look in this section?

[23:31:14]

meshe:

that link takes you right to the NFS section

[23:31:20]

jblack:

hrmmm. maybe with usermount sshfs, with usermount mythfs, he could get what he wants

[23:31:36]

jblack:

hell. just record to the backend and rsync nightly

[23:31:46]

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[23:32:03]

max__:

Okay, so ... how?

[23:32:26]

kormoc:

nah

[23:32:31]

kormoc:

just setup a nfs server on the mac

[23:32:36]

jblack:

Let's find you a book on sytsem administration

[23:32:49]

jblack:

Oh, he's got a mac?

[23:32:53]

kormoc:

yeah

[23:32:57]

max__:

Hackintosh FTW.

[23:33:07]

jblack:

uh-huh. Sure.

[23:33:09]

kormoc:

Hackintosh gets you banned from the channel...

[23:33:16]

max__:

Really?

[23:33:23]

kormoc:

We don't support that sorta stuff

[23:33:43]

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[23:33:47]

max__:

Ah.

[23:33:55]

kormoc:

So go switch to your fully legit os x desktop and let's never speak again of the illegal one

[23:34:10]

max__:

What illegal one.

[23:34:12]

max__:

Exactly.

[23:34:24]

rushfan:

sphery: Looks like your help worked so thanks.

[23:34:34]

sphery:

rushfan: good

[23:34:43]

kormoc:

in any case, if you google os x nfs server, you'll find lots of docs on how to do it

[23:34:55]

smithna:

rushfan: figured it out....

[23:35:00]

rushfan:

sphery: out of curiosity what trouble (specificaly) did arch=native cause?

[23:35:08]

rushfan:

smithna: Good cause I'm a bit ADD tonight. What was wrong?

[23:35:08]

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[23:36:03]

smithna:

The new lirc drivers set the socket at /var/run/lirc/lircd while mythfrontend was looking for it at /dev/lircd — a rm and 'ln -s' fixed the problem

[23:36:58]

sphery:

rushfan: it caused a compile error: ../../libs/libmyth/libmyth-0.22.so: undefined reference to `vtable for soundtouch::TDStretchMMX'

[23:37:05]

sphery:

(sorry, I couldn't resist :)

[23:37:27]

meshe:

hehe

[23:37:31]

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[23:38:01]

sphery:

rushfan: basically, we have a lot of code in Myth that supports choosing the right combination of arch/march/tune/cpu flags, which are /extremely/ finicky due to the ffmpeg libav* code.

[23:38:59]

sphery:

rushfan: the arch/march/tune/cpu stuff should only be used by packagers who are creating builds for use on a huge number of differing systems, and anyone else should use --enable-proc-opts

[23:39:45]

rushfan:

sphery: lol but thanks

[23:39:51]

sphery:

though, I guess, in your case, it may have been the finicky soundtouch code that was the problem

[23:40:24]

sphery:

anyway, we actually have it set up to optimize different portions of the code differently based on what works and what doesn't and using those other flags can throw that off

[23:40:51]

rushfan:

That's actually pretty cool. I, fortunately, develop modules so I get to avoid build systems. I'm not a fan of messing with them

[23:41:05]

sphery:

yeah, that's a good approach

[23:42:35]

rushfan:

sphery: I'm gonna update the wiki to recommend using --enable-proc-opt because right now it recommends --arch

[23:42:51]

sphery:

that would be very much appreciated

[23:42:53]

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