MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

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Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-02 19:08:10 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities() [<a href='function.htmlentities'>function.htmlentities</a>]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120
Thursday, August 27th, 2009, 00:03 UTC
[00:03:06] wagnerrp: plus the bacon is uncooked
[00:03:10] wagnerrp: damnit!
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[00:03:16] wagnerrp: i went to work and forgot to plug my mouse in
[00:06:51] Xenocide (Xenocide!n=Mythbunt@cpe-071-071-216-235.carolina.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[00:07:12] Xenocide: Hey guys, I am having a problem, only getting a partial lock with a SA4250HDC over firewire, anyone able to help me?
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[00:11:15] Xenocide: anyone??
[00:11:36] wagnerrp: no one seems to be very active at the moment
[00:11:55] wagnerrp: four minutes is insufficient time to start panicking, or considering asking your question again
[00:12:52] sphery: especially when your question likely hasn't scrolled off anyone's display, yet (since no one has been talking)
[00:15:36] ** iamlindoro bemoans his 2 character height display since he's IRC'ing from a portable TRS-80 **
[00:15:40] iamlindoro: What did people just say?
[00:15:46] iamlindoro: Oh no, what did *I* just say??
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[00:21:06] ** J-e-f-f-A has one of those... ;-) **
[00:21:29] sphery: heh
[00:22:12] ** J-e-f-f-A is just like clever in that respect, except that he doesn't try to run Myth on them!  ;-) **
[00:22:22] ** sphery just untainted Perl data the naughty way **
[00:23:44] iamlindoro: how can it be naughty if it's not tainted?
[00:24:09] sphery: because it's just as tainted as before, but I made perl think it wasn't
[00:24:30] jams: now if you could just untaint perl
[00:24:32] kormoc: whoops
[00:24:37] sphery: heh
[00:24:40] kormoc: I missed my power supplies birthday
[00:24:54] kormoc: She just turned nine a few months ago, nine years of 24x7 and still going strong
[00:25:00] sphery: birthday or adoption date?
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[00:25:09] kormoc: heh, adoption date
[00:25:56] sphery: So, I can make the perl-based backup run even in taint mode, but doing so may leave some upset with the approach...
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[00:34:14] ** wagnerrp dislikes having to filter shows to 'new episodes only' because cable channels dont provide consistent show information **
[00:34:55] wagnerrp: USA seems to be particularly bad about that one
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[00:53:40] jya: iamlindoro: got up this morning, and all my videos got duplicated ; is there a way to fix that easily ? (I clicked on scan for changes by mistake) :(
[00:54:25] iamlindoro: duplicated as in one each from the SG and local record?
[00:54:44] jya: I unchecked the "browse file" bit
[00:55:05] wagnerrp: if it's SG plus local record, just move the local directory and rescan
[00:55:16] iamlindoro: There shouldn't be duplicates unless you have both a storage group and a local setting pointed at the same folders
[00:55:30] wagnerrp: if it is two copies in SG, you could pretty easily whip up a script to find all distinct paths
[00:55:37] jya: hum, I do have that I believe ... but why would it only show up now ?
[00:55:42] wagnerrp: grab the first intid related to a path and delete the rest
[00:55:59] iamlindoro: yes delete from videometadata where intid > ####; would work
[00:56:02] wagnerrp: or the very simple solution... 'delete from videometadata where intid>somenumber'
[00:56:14] jya: so I just need to go in the mythfrontend settings, video -> general and put dummy path there ?
[00:56:25] iamlindoro: yes
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[00:56:56] iamlindoro: assuming the ones you want to keep are the ones from the SG, that is
[00:57:29] jya: why keep that settings and force people to use SG instead? could create default SG when upgrading from 0.21 from the settings in mythvideo and remove it afterward
[00:57:55] iamlindoro: because many features are non implemented in SGs and the idea of converting to SG only for .22 has already been shot down
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[01:00:44] jya: ok...
[01:01:01] jya: what features aren't implemented?
[01:01:42] iamlindoro: playback of ISOs, playback of video_ts directories, file browse mode, image file browsers, external video player use, among others
[01:03:27] jya: maybe I'll remove the SG for the time being ...
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[01:20:46] Xenocide: anyone familiar with mythchanger??
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[01:45:57] Xenocide: or the ir blaster??
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[01:46:44] wagnerrp: mythchanger?
[01:46:55] Xenocide: trying to change channels over firewire
[01:47:12] wagnerrp: there are several scripts for doing that
[01:47:14] Xenocide: also was trying the IR blaster setup in the mybuntu control center for scientific atlantic boxes, but neither seem to be working for me
[01:47:20] Xenocide: i have tried two, neither work
[01:47:22] wagnerrp: but i was unaware of a big project with that intent
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[01:48:27] Xenocide: have you ever setup the IR control?
[01:48:33] J-e-f-f-A: mythchanger seems to have come out of one of the mythbuntu folks.
[01:48:36] wagnerrp: never needed to
[01:48:55] wagnerrp: J-e-f-f-A: yeah, one of those idiots
[01:48:59] wagnerrp: probably a major
[01:49:59] J-e-f-f-A: Xenocide: I've setup IR channel changing – so far only for Dish Network receivers personally, but the procedure is the same...
[01:50:08] wagnerrp: (written by 'majoridoit')
[01:50:09] wagnerrp: ...
[01:51:22] J-e-f-f-A: Xenocide: What are you using for an IR blaster?
[01:52:59] mkrufky (mkrufky!n=mk@unaffiliated/mkrufky) has joined #mythtv-users
[01:53:12] Xenocide: i am trying to change the cannel on a 4250HDC
[01:53:19] Xenocide: tried using majoridiots mythchanger, didn't work either
[01:53:47] jya: iamlindoro: I've been using your theme for a little while and I have some comments about it...
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[01:54:50] jya: The recording page is great... There's no much clutter , it's clear, you know where to find the information etc...
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[01:56:27] jya: The videos one however isn't IMHO ... The gallery view has way too many icons showing, and if you have folders: you don't know which one it is until you move the cursor to it.
[01:56:28] ** kormoc wonders if this is going to turn into yet another 'change what you think looks good cause I don't agree' speal... **
[01:56:57] wagnerrp: thats what the 'folder.jpg' is for
[01:57:00] kormoc: woo... congratulations, you can change the theme!
[01:57:07] wagnerrp: make a descriptive icon for the folder
[01:57:09] freedenizen: nod
[01:57:29] sphery: The challenge of themes... Everyone has their own idea of what they should look like.
[01:57:42] jya: I think it looks great..
[01:57:51] jya: it's more with the usability of things
[01:58:07] kormoc: the usability is also entirely up to each individual
[01:58:09] jya: like recordings has the detailed showed above the list ; but in video, it's at the bottom
[01:58:19] J-e-f-f-A: Xenocide: I'd try to get firewire going first – IIRC, it's more reliable,and definitely faster than an IR blaster.
[01:58:24] wagnerrp: as of recently, mythvideo also auto-download such images, as well as grab one from one of the files inside the directory if a folder.jpg does not exist
[01:58:46] jya: I disagree, you have pretty universal rules about UI, where things are easier to reach, the maximum of items presented on a single page etc..
[01:58:47] kormoc: This is a long dead horse, iamlindoro likes it the way it is, it's not going to change, so yet another person telling him his theme is 'broken', 'busted', or 'wrong' isn't going to change anything...
[01:59:02] kormoc: well, I disagree with your disagreement
[01:59:03] sphery: I tried to tell Picasso that the face just didn't look right and he disagreed and sold the painting, anyway...
[01:59:13] jya: that's not what I'm doing ...
[01:59:14] jya: :)
[01:59:16] J-e-f-f-A: +1 for Kormoc.
[01:59:49] wagnerrp: sphery: should have just gotten his glasses repaired
[01:59:49] jya: it's more to do with consistency across the theme... The recordings screen if great, it's concise, all information is available at a glance, all in the same place
[02:00:25] kormoc: jya: so go fork it and make it as you want? Welcome to open source...
[02:01:30] jya: in videos, for some reasons it's different. Re: the icons with a descriptive image ; when you have 18 icons horizontally it's a tiny content... In recordings, the name of the show is shown on top of the icon. Why not do the same thing in video...
[02:01:54] kormoc: cause it's in gallery mode and not a list mode like the tv is?
[02:01:56] jya: why is it that you try to discuss something, and you guys just take it as "go and do your fork then"
[02:02:18] jya: that's not constructive at all
[02:02:23] kormoc: cause you're telling someone that their artistic view is wrong
[02:02:31] kormoc: what they think looks good, is wrong
[02:02:35] kormoc: how is that constructive at all?
[02:02:51] jya: but you see , I'm not talking about the "artistic" approach
[02:02:54] Dagmar: How do you think critics make aw living?
[02:02:58] kormoc: If he didn't think it looked good or worked as a interface, it wouldn't be done that way
[02:03:19] kormoc: jya: the layout is done in a artistic way, that's the problem you have
[02:03:22] jya: I'm talking about the usability.
[02:03:35] ** kormoc sighs **
[02:03:45] kormoc: So you want him to make thing bigger, smaller, change how they *look*
[02:03:53] Dagmar: Sounds more like you're grumpy that other people don't see it your way
[02:03:55] kormoc: that's not just 'usability', that's also changing the *look*
[02:04:01] jya: re: list vs gallery: if recordings is in "list" view, it's very different
[02:04:04] Dagmar: There's no reason to think anything bad of being told to go fork things
[02:04:04] jya: not at all.
[02:04:06] kormoc: and the look is the *artistic* view
[02:04:23] jya: I have a guy who came to my place this morning, on a visit from overseas
[02:04:39] ** J-e-f-f-A wonders where this is going... **
[02:04:44] jya: he's quite a respected UI guy and I showed it to him..
[02:04:45] kormoc: It's story time kids!
[02:05:01] jya: oh never mind ...
[02:05:06] Dagmar: kormoc: Now now... let him finish
[02:05:18] Dagmar: ...although it's pretty obvious this is a varation of appeal to false authority
[02:06:29] jya: obviously can't have constructive argumentative discussion here ... it's immediately cut-throat with childish answer like "don't like it, go fork it yourself" answer...
[02:06:37] jya: so I'm done there
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[02:07:40] kormoc: It's a valid answer
[02:08:06] kormoc: it's why I, as a long time myth developer, run my own menu theme that isn't a part of the repo, nor will it
[02:08:43] kormoc: as I disagree with everyone else's ideal menu and wrote a ideal one for me, that I 'forked' from the default, I also ran non-standard GANT for years, as it was modified to be perfect for me
[02:08:45] jya: yeah right.. it's like a kid putting his hands on his hear screaming "I can't hear you"
[02:08:59] kormoc: no, that's what the /ignore or /kickban is for
[02:09:10] kormoc: those actually do make it so I can't hear you
[02:10:22] jya: Here I was trying to start a discussion, and if the only answer you get is "don't like it, do it yourself" , if you think that's a valid answer.. fair enough ... so I'm done :P
[02:10:55] kormoc: it's been a topic brought up time and time again, another time isn't going to change anything
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[02:12:15] Cyber-Dogg: I have mythbuntu up and running... and when i'm using it, xorg and mythfrontend are using 100% of my processor
[02:12:45] wagnerrp: what graphics card do you have?
[02:12:53] Cyber-Dogg: I have nvidia geforce 8200 on board which is supposed to have hardware acceleration (I've seen conflicting information online as to whetherr that works with the linux drivers)
[02:12:57] sphery: Cyber-Dogg: you mean when sitting at the menu or when playing back video?
[02:13:00] wagnerrp: is this during playback? or while in the menu?
[02:13:02] Cyber-Dogg: playback
[02:13:24] sphery: likely a driver installation issue
[02:13:40] sphery: or a playback profile configuration issue
[02:13:45] wagnerrp: hardware acceleration works on trunk, but not 0.21
[02:13:57] Cyber-Dogg: oh... interesting...
[02:14:01] sphery: or using a version of myth that doesn't support VDPAU :)
[02:14:12] sphery: (I forgot the obvious one, wagnerrp)
[02:14:17] Cyber-Dogg: I mean... I have a dedicated box for it... for it's not the end of the world...
[02:14:33] Cyber-Dogg: but I'd like to NOT have my processor burning up from running at 100% for hours
[02:14:34] wagnerrp: how much processor is Xorg taking?
[02:14:46] wagnerrp: usually if it takes more than a couple percent, something is set up wrong
[02:15:04] Cyber-Dogg: LOL... Xorg is at like 90%
[02:15:15] Cyber-Dogg: mythfrontend is at 50% (dual core)
[02:16:09] Cyber-Dogg: xorg actually bounces around
[02:16:15] Cyber-Dogg: usually still over 50%
[02:16:36] Cyber-Dogg: so how do I go about addressing this?/
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[02:17:05] Shadow__X: hello everybody
[02:17:19] wagnerrp: isnt that 'use_events' things one of the common culprits for Xorg load?
[02:17:54] kormoc: that lack of it with a nvidia card, perhaps
[02:18:04] J-e-f-f-A: Cyber-Dogg: What are you trying to playback?
[02:18:39] wagnerrp: J-e-f-f-A: doesnt matter, video decoding is not what is eating up the processor
[02:19:11] freedenizen: alright something non-theme related.... I'm having a hell of a time trying to get my HDPVR working, I've tried RCA and SPDIF audio inputs, it outputs fine using cat /dev/video0, but I cannot for the life of me get it working in myth. I have backend logs with -v record posted here of me trying to go into live tv: http://pastebin.ca/1544176 Thoughts? Live tv works fine on the other tuners
[02:21:08] kormoc: freedenizen: you know it's only supported in -trunk, right?
[02:21:21] freedenizen: yes, running trunk for a long time
[02:21:57] freedenizen: kormac: currently Revision: 21538
[02:22:36] abqjp: freedenizen, that looks like the HD-PVR is not seeing any video/audio on the selected input. Make sure your cables have not come loose.
[02:22:39] Cyber-Dogg: mpeg2
[02:23:20] freedenizen: abqjp: but it is outputting perfectly viewable video when I cat /dev/video0 to a file, I can play it back in vlc with audio and video
[02:23:51] abqjp: Component and optical inputs?
[02:24:37] Cyber-Dogg: i have a set top box firewire feed
[02:24:41] Cyber-Dogg: and no 5C on it :-)
[02:24:45] freedenizen: abqjp: all component video, I tried RCA stereo inputs as well as optical
[02:24:50] abqjp: freedenizen, I am pretty sure the RCA audio jacks are the default. If you are using optical, you need to tell Myth.
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[02:24:58] Cyber-Dogg: I tried the use events as well
[02:25:01] Cyber-Dogg: no different
[02:25:20] freedenizen: abqjp: I set it to use RCA inputs in myth, and I tried setting SPDIF inputs with myth
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[02:25:44] freedenizen: abqjp: but I will try going back to RCA again, standby
[02:27:30] abqjp: freedenizen, I don't know if this is still true, but I believe it is: If you want to use S/PDIF nothing can be connected to the RCA.
[02:31:05] freedenizen: abqjp: here are the logs from setting myth to RCA Back, I also disconnected the optical in: http://pastebin.ca/1544190
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[02:32:43] Cyber-Dogg: wagnerrp: any direction for me?
[02:33:05] wagnerrp: ive got nothing...
[02:34:55] abqjp: freedenizen, My logs look a little different because I am using http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6719 , but otherwise I don't really see what the problem is.
[02:36:01] freedenizen: abqjp: well it isn't creating the file as far as I can tell, when I try to enter live tv it hangs at please wait and then exits
[02:37:23] abqjp: freedenizen, the critical error is "DevRdB(/dev/v4l/video0) Error: Poll giving up"
[02:37:41] abqjp: That should only happen if there is no video for it to record.
[02:38:36] freedenizen: hmmm, odd... any ideas what to look at next?
[02:39:33] Cyber-Dogg: anyone else have thoughts on the high CPU usage?
[02:39:42] Cyber-Dogg: kormoc: you seem to be a genius around here :-)
[02:39:45] abqjp: Myth is trying to use "/dev/v4l/video0" according to your logs. Verify that you can cat "/dev/v4l/video0" as the same user that Myth is running as.
[02:40:01] sphery: kormoc is a genious everywhere
[02:40:30] Cyber-Dogg: i stand corrected
[02:41:37] sphery: Cyber-Dogg: Assuming you're using trunk (where VDPAU is supported), if you look at your frontend logs, I'm sure you'll see it saying something about rejecting VDPAU. If it doesn't, it means you didn't set up your playback profile to actually /use/ VDPAU.
[02:41:54] sphery: when it says it's rejecting VDPAU, it gives clues as to why
[02:42:05] Dagmar: UseEvents is not something that does even a lick of good unless you're currently playing back something that goes through XvMC afaik
[02:42:07] Dagmar: Meaning MPEG only
[02:42:22] Dagmar: It should have zero effect otherwise, and it'll only work for drivers that support it (i.e, nVidia)
[02:42:28] abqjp: UseEvents works for Xv, too
[02:42:43] kormoc: Cyber-Dogg: did you toggle useevents?
[02:42:46] kormoc: its' where I'd start
[02:42:52] Cyber-Dogg: yep
[02:43:05] kormoc: no change?
[02:43:08] Cyber-Dogg: no change
[02:43:10] kormoc: Toss up your xorg into a pastebin
[02:43:13] freedenizen: I tried "/dev/v4l/video0" works as well, well I don't can any audio I can hear in vlc, but it looks there there is data, I assume vlc just can't decode it
[02:43:22] kormoc: and the playback log from mythfrontend -v playback
[02:43:35] freedenizen: "/dev/video0" is just a symlink for v4l/video0
[02:43:47] Cyber-Dogg: k... give me a minute... can't interupt the wifey's show... :-)
[02:44:10] Dagmar: I wouldn't count on VLC 1.0 working worth a damn for playing live from the cards anymore
[02:44:16] abqjp: freedenizen, the HD-PVR driver is probably configured for S/PDIF.
[02:44:26] Dagmar: THey somehow incorporated a lot of extra suck in the push to 1.0
[02:44:59] freedenizen: abqjp: alright, but from what I've read that should work these day, correct?
[02:45:27] Cyber-Dogg: xorg -> http://www.pastebin.ca/1544203
[02:45:40] abqjp: S/PDIF works fine, as long as you have the latest drivers from Hauppauge, even DD5.1 works.
[02:45:50] freedenizen: I put 1.5.6 on it
[02:46:16] freedenizen: running kernel-2.6.30-gentoo-r4 currently
[02:47:12] freedenizen: when looking at v4l2-ctl I notice: audio_encoding (menu) : min=3 max=3 default=3 value=3 shouldn't I be able to get that to 4 for ac3?
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[02:50:04] c0d3: Hi all
[02:50:13] c0d3 is now known as drahakar
[02:50:23] abqjp: freedenizen, the encoding has to do with what it should do with 2-channel audio. Should it be encoded as AAC or AC3 (Dolby Digital).
[02:50:46] abqjp: freedenizen, you have read http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HD-PVR, right?
[02:50:56] freedenizen: abqjp: right, but if you notice it only allows it to be set to 3, not 4
[02:51:01] freedenizen: abqjp: yes I have
[02:51:12] abqjp: freedenizen, I am grasping, but just to verify, you have "Default Input: Component" and "Audio Input: SPDIF", right?
[02:51:17] drahakar: Is anybody here familiar with the ATI tv wonder HD 650?
[02:51:30] freedenizen: abqjp: yes it is.
[02:52:01] jya: Dagmar: Use event is necessary if using Xv too... especially if you are playing a 24fps video on a TV set at 24Hz
[02:52:23] Cyber-Dogg: do I need XvMC?
[02:52:25] Dagmar: You have a TV that operates at 24hz?
[02:52:38] Dagmar: What banana republic was that made for?
[02:52:49] Dagmar: Cyber-Dogg: Generally, yesd
[02:52:52] jya: if the video framerate match exactly the refresh rate, Xv doesn't drop frames sometime and queued up .. things UseEvents fix
[02:53:35] Cyber-Dogg: kormoc: I am getting an error from frontend that says XVideo-MotionCompensation missing on display :0.0
[02:53:37] jya: however, if using 190.xx drivers, do not use UseEvents, it's buggy and will hang your PC
[02:53:52] abqjp: freedenizen, I had never noticed that v4l2-ctl does not allow setting audio_encoding_layer to 4. You may want to bring that up in the hdpvr irc channel.
[02:53:52] jya: Cyber-Dogg what video card do you have?
[02:53:53] Dagmar: Cyber-Dogg: You have an nvidia card and have installed the nVidia binary driver?
[02:54:01] Cyber-Dogg: yes
[02:54:16] Dagmar: You might want to double-check that then, because it should be there by default once you've installed it
[02:54:37] abqjp: freedenizen, If you are using S/PDIF input, it does not matter --- via S/PDIF it will record AC3 if it is being fed AC3 from your STB.
[02:54:55] jya: you have a 8200 video card
[02:55:00] Dagmar: ...and if you followed some instructions that talked about putting something in a file in /etc/X11 like libXvMC-NVIDIA, delete that
[02:55:03] jya: XvMC isn't supported on 8xxx and 9xxx
[02:55:22] jya: VDPAU and XvMC on nvidia card is mutually exclusive
[02:55:22] Dagmar: s/supported/functional/;
[02:55:36] Dagmar: The cards just can't do it
[02:55:38] Cyber-Dogg: ok...
[02:55:45] jya: not just not supported, it won't work at all
[02:55:59] jya: you must use VDPAU if you want hardware acceleration on that card.
[02:56:06] Cyber-Dogg: ok
[02:56:08] Dagmar: X still has it's software XvMC, for whatever good that does
[02:56:09] Cyber-Dogg: and that's only in trunk
[02:56:14] Cyber-Dogg: ?
[02:56:16] Dagmar: Yes
[02:56:18] jya: yes it is
[02:56:19] Dagmar: VDPAU only in trunk
[02:56:24] Cyber-Dogg: ok
[02:56:28] Cyber-Dogg: is trunk pretty stable?
[02:56:28] jya: supported that is :)
[02:57:04] jya: if you need VDPAU, I would not recommend you try trunk yet... some issues with the colorkey currently since moving to libgui for playback
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[02:57:17] jya: you'll get no picture (that's what I currently get)
[02:57:38] freedenizen: abqjp, yep, I just reset it to SPDIF again, and retested, slightly different information in the logs seems to be getting an AC-3 stream but still the same result and the same ringbuf errors. No "DevRdB(/dev/v4l/video0) Error: Poll giving up" or anything though
[02:57:43] jya: what distribution are you using ?
[02:57:54] Cyber-Dogg: well i'm on mythbuntu because i couldn't get my sound to work on gnetoo
[02:58:13] abqjp: freedenizen, The Poll error is gone?
[02:58:13] jya: ok..
[02:58:25] Dagmar: Bad reason, but not a bad move
[02:58:35] Dagmar: Less crap to maintain yourself
[02:58:40] Cyber-Dogg: what do you mean bad reason?
[02:59:03] Dagmar: I mean they've both got the relatively same kernel, so the relatively same drivers
[02:59:09] Cyber-Dogg: it didn't work... I spent HOURS in chat rooms, pastebined TONS of configs and nothing
[02:59:13] Cyber-Dogg: so to be precise...
[02:59:19] Cyber-Dogg: my sound worked from console fine
[02:59:27] Dagmar: So to be precise, you ditched Gentoo because you couldn't beast it into submission
[02:59:29] Dagmar: Not a big deal
[02:59:36] Dagmar: s/beast/beat/;
[02:59:46] Cyber-Dogg: but as soon as I opened X, (even with just xfmce) sound stopped
[02:59:47] freedenizen: abqjp, for the moment, yes, although not sure why, the settings are the same as I tried before, let me try setting it to record instead of live tv again and see what the logs look like
[03:00:08] Cyber-Dogg: no errors, just no output
[03:00:30] Dagmar: Probably something like artsd or pulse jumping in there and taking things over
[03:01:09] Cyber-Dogg: checked all that
[03:01:12] Cyber-Dogg: nadda
[03:01:27] Dagmar: You'll pardon me if I have doubts
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[03:01:34] Cyber-Dogg: xfce doesn't load any of that
[03:02:00] Dagmar: There's a lot of crap that can foul things which is not the least bit obvious unless you a) already know it's thgere or b) really, really know your stuff
[03:02:55] freedenizen: abqpj, no luck on a regular recording either, just makes a 0byte file, here's the log: http://pastebin.ca/1544219
[03:04:11] Cyber-Dogg: so how long are you going to be around dagmar? :-)
[03:04:24] Dagmar: I'm here often
[03:04:25] Cyber-Dogg: cause I'll get my gnetoo setup up and running and let you have at it :-)
[03:04:31] Dagmar: Generally after dark
[03:04:40] Cyber-Dogg: after dark for which time zone?
[03:04:49] Dagmar: Roundeye time zones
[03:04:49] freedenizen: abqpj, but I have another tuner that is working just fine in there, so I don't think it is a directory or SG problem, I just have one default SG for everything
[03:05:07] Dagmar: Like tomorrow night I know I'll be on quite a bit after about 5pm CST
[03:05:16] Cyber-Dogg: ah... i'm in CST too
[03:05:21] Cyber-Dogg: by St. Louis
[03:05:26] Cyber-Dogg: you?
[03:05:29] Dagmar: Nashville
[03:05:40] Cyber-Dogg: illinois or TN?
[03:05:42] Dagmar: But seriously stick with MythBuntu
[03:06:08] Dagmar: THere's much less that can potentially be broken
[03:06:11] Cyber-Dogg: yeah... I mean it works great... but I like the challenge of gentoo and I like to know what's going on
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[03:07:10] Dagmar: So, probably the simple thing to do would be to fire up Gentoo, then X, then run speaker-test. If it doesn't work, run lsof against the audio device and see what suprise thng just jumped up and grabbed the sound device
[03:07:12] drahakar: Hi everyone I'm pretty new here so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to do this, but I'd like to have some help from one of you if it's possible
[03:07:28] Cyber-Dogg: Dagmar, that is EXACTLY what I did
[03:07:31] Dagmar: drahakar: First thing, ask, don't ask to ask
[03:07:41] Cyber-Dogg: and NOTHING did
[03:07:58] Cyber-Dogg: the guys in #linux and #gentoo were totally puzzled
[03:08:05] Dagmar: Cyber-Dogg: So either somethinggrabbed the sound device, or something muted all the mixer levels, or god hates your motherboard
[03:08:35] Cyber-Dogg: after starting X, I checked the mixer levels, they were identical to when X wasn't running
[03:08:44] Cyber-Dogg: and God may in fact hate my motherboard
[03:08:50] Dagmar: What sound chipset is on that board
[03:08:57] drahakar: ok I didn't know if there was some rules on this irc chat
[03:08:58] Cyber-Dogg: but if so... he only hates it when gentoo is running ;-)
[03:09:02] abqjp: freedenizen, odd. Everything looks fine in the log, other than the file does not exist.
[03:09:06] Cyber-Dogg: intel HDMA
[03:09:09] Cyber-Dogg: Nvidia
[03:09:20] Dagmar: drahakar: Well, it's more a matter of asking to ask makes someone else have to lean forward and type "ask it"
[03:09:27] abqjp: freedenizen, one rev of Myth are you using?
[03:09:27] Cyber-Dogg: the codec is realtek
[03:09:35] Dagmar: Hmm...
[03:09:39] drahakar: I'd like to know what may cause my ATI TV wonder HD 650 not to be detected from mythTv
[03:09:48] Dagmar: MythTV doesn't detect things.
[03:09:51] abqjp: freedenizen, I am at 21437
[03:09:58] Dagmar: You have to tell it where and what type of tuner card you have
[03:10:10] Dagmar: ...and you have to be *right* which is often harder than it seeems.
[03:10:14] drahakar: ok
[03:10:28] freedenizen: abqjp, ya hmmm the only thing I can think of is that I compliled hdpvr into the kernel as opposed to as a module, just recompiled the kernel with hdpvr as a mod, and I am rebooting now
[03:10:31] Dagmar: No0w to see if that card is supported by v4l...
[03:10:36] freedenizen: abqjp, I'm at 21538
[03:10:58] drahakar: is there a way for me to see if the card is supported by Video4Linux?
[03:11:19] abqjp: freedenizen, anything is possible. I am using it as a module.
[03:12:26] Dagmar: drahakar: Is it this card? http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/ATI_HDTV_Wonder
[03:12:36] Cyber-Dogg: so Dagmar: VDPAU?
[03:12:47] Dagmar: What of it?
[03:12:49] Cyber-Dogg: how do I get that going here without trunk?
[03:12:52] Cyber-Dogg: or is that the only wya?
[03:12:53] Dagmar: You don't.
[03:13:00] Dagmar: Or you write drivers for it yourself
[03:13:05] Dagmar: :)
[03:13:11] Cyber-Dogg: jya made it sound like one could...
[03:13:34] Dagmar: There are some "backports" of questionable merit to add support for it to 0.21-fixes, but you'd be better off taking up cutting
[03:14:18] wagnerrp: drahakar: isnt the ati 650 one of those cablecard tuners?
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[03:15:15] wagnerrp: seems not...
[03:15:21] freedenizen: abqjp, cross your fingers.....
[03:15:50] Cyber-Dogg: hmm... sounds like this is going to be fun...
[03:15:55] Cyber-Dogg: I might have to give gentoo another try :-)
[03:16:17] Cyber-Dogg: are you up for helping me beat the beast into submission?
[03:16:17] Cyber-Dogg: LOL
[03:16:44] freedenizen: abqjp, nope, same problem do you have these: Unknown(136) Descriptor (0x88) length(4)
[03:16:46] drahakar: cablecard? yes Isuppose
[03:16:56] Dagmar: Problem solved
[03:16:57] Dagmar: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATI/AMD_TV_Wonder_650
[03:16:58] drahakar: since I can fixe the cable into it
[03:16:59] Dagmar: No drivers.
[03:17:15] Dagmar: Game over. Time to shop for a different card, unfortunately
[03:17:20] drahakar: wow, didn't knew about this web site
[03:17:25] drahakar: oh no crap
[03:17:35] freedenizen: abqjp, also I notice at the end when it exits out: Unknown type, recording width was 720
[03:17:46] drahakar: I bought it since it was on the working list
[03:17:50] Dagmar: Yeah I only found it by following a thread from the Ubuntu forums
[03:17:55] Dagmar: THAT card?
[03:18:09] drahakar: well
[03:18:36] drahakar: on mythtv it sais that ATI All-in-wonder doesn't work but ATI Tv wonder does
[03:18:39] Dagmar: There's a bunch of different ATI wonder cards
[03:18:43] drahakar: so I tought it would
[03:18:57] abqjp: freedenizen, I have the Unknown(136). I have "Recording designated 720p because width was 1280".
[03:19:00] drahakar: ok, i'll try to get a refund
[03:19:19] abqjp: freedenizen, I am compiling the latest rev to make sure nothing has been broken in the last few days.
[03:19:36] drahakar: It doesn't work because of the linux kernel or because of the lack of support from mythTv?
[03:19:42] Dagmar: I've no clue about ATSC cards yet or I'd recommend a Hauppauge card with support
[03:19:51] Dagmar: Lack of kernel driver support
[03:20:31] freedenizen: abqjp, alright thx I'm going to try and double check the 4:3 override on the stb although I think I checked it twice already
[03:20:48] drahakar: ok I'll look for a Hauppauge card
[03:21:44] drahakar: I'd like to have a USB extern card, do you have any recommandation?
[03:21:51] wagnerrp: dont?
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[03:22:45] wagnerrp: internal cards beat USB dongles in ever aspect except they require a PCI[e] slot
[03:22:52] wagnerrp: if youve got spare slots, get a card
[03:22:58] wagnerrp: its cheaper, cleaner, usually easier
[03:23:21] drahakar: hahaha
[03:23:56] drahakar: ok that's very honnest :D
[03:24:45] wagnerrp: USB tuners typically dont get as much attention as internal ones
[03:25:00] wagnerrp: but from personal opinion, why have crap hanging off your computer if you dont have to
[03:25:25] wagnerrp: attention, as far as drivers go
[03:25:47] mkrufky: sphery: iecset rate 48000 did not fix the problem, but i have ruled out the receiver as the sole cause, as audio-over-hdmi works properly even with the receiver inline, if im in windows7
[03:26:27] mkrufky: sphery: so, i think its a nvidia audio driver issue ... even thought it *does* work when connected directly to the television without the reciever inline
[03:27:13] Dagmar: drahakar
[03:27:27] Dagmar: drahakar: We're very big on constructive laziness
[03:27:47] drahakar: sorry, not familiar with this expression
[03:28:12] wagnerrp: today's Zero Punctuation at 1:50 is spot on...
[03:28:22] Dagmar: What? It updated already?
[03:28:37] Dagmar: Doh I'm getting my updates mixed up. I'll have to check it when I get home
[03:28:47] wagnerrp: already? its usually up wednesday around noon
[03:29:21] wagnerrp: its the commentary on 'you seem to be having trouble, would you like to skip this level?'
[03:29:32] Dagmar: Yeah I was thinking it's a thursday update, but that's LFG Comics that updates on Thursday
[03:30:11] Dagmar: If he's review Wolfenstien I'd know whether or not to buy it
[03:30:30] Dagmar: s/he's/he'd/;
[03:30:31] wagnerrp: no, a pair of '2.5d' games
[03:30:46] drahakar: Thank you for your support everybody, have a good night :)
[03:31:53] wagnerrp: amazing
[03:32:42] wagnerrp: 'if you can imagine the lost vikings knocking on little big planet, then the internet has clearly desensitized you to retarded sexualization'
[03:32:47] Dagmar: I'll have to pull it up when I get home
[03:33:03] Dagmar: There's so many damned freshmen here the coffee house's net connection is laggy
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[03:44:05] abqjp: freedenizen, latest rev works fine, for me. Must be something else in your setup. I am out of ideas at the moment.
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[03:45:05] freedenizen: abqjp, alright thanks, ya I'm totally suck and braindead, Maybe I'll try hooking it up to windows again make sure it really gets the 1.5.6 update, maybe this coffee will solve the problem for me
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[03:55:30] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: seems harlock59 came back
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[04:02:55] sphery: abqjp: specifically, see #6516
[04:03:05] mkrufky: hey, sphery
[04:03:21] sphery: he's using that to cover the issue, though the title doesn't really indicate that it's related
[04:03:29] sphery: mkrufky: hey, saw that it didn't work
[04:03:31] mkrufky: im just checking that you saw my prev msg... this way i wont have to repeat tomorrow
[04:03:34] mkrufky: ah ok cool
[04:03:44] sphery: yeah, thanks for letting me know
[04:04:07] mkrufky: np ... thanks for the help, even tho its not solved yet .... perhaps a newer kernel may help, i dunno
[04:04:35] sphery: I was just hoping it would be something like that--it's easy enough to send iec958 status bits if that's all you need, but unfortunately, it seems to be something else
[04:04:57] Cyber-Dogg: Dagmar: I got the xorg usage down pretty low now
[04:05:04] Cyber-Dogg: what about mythfrontend.real?
[04:05:41] wagnerrp: mythfrontend.real is the real mythfrontend if you enjoy mythbuntu and its wrapper scripts
[04:06:18] Cyber-Dogg: ok... it's cpu usage is at like 50%
[04:06:32] wagnerrp: thats mythtv decoding video
[04:06:41] wagnerrp: thats normal
[04:06:47] Cyber-Dogg: ok
[04:06:51] wagnerrp: Xorg taking large amounts of processor means broken
[04:07:02] Cyber-Dogg: so... if VDPAU was running then it would be lower too?
[04:07:14] wagnerrp: VDPAU has nothing to do with it
[04:07:26] Cyber-Dogg: so it will always be at like 50% then?
[04:07:28] wagnerrp: VDPAU would make mythfrontend.real's usage drop to next to nothing
[04:07:40] Cyber-Dogg: so then it does have to do with it :-)
[04:07:44] wagnerrp: but your high X usage still means something is borked
[04:07:50] Cyber-Dogg: I fixed that
[04:08:02] wagnerrp: oh, well then youre good now....
[04:08:19] Cyber-Dogg: the porlbme I'm having is that what I did was disable vsync
[04:08:25] Cyber-Dogg: and now I'm having vsync issues...
[04:08:54] Cyber-Dogg: so is my only choice to go back?
[04:11:50] abqjp: sphery, thanks.
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[04:15:06] freedenizen: abqjp, finally got it working
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[04:16:35] freedenizen: abqjp, not really sure what the problem was, it is a rev d1 unit, and I had hooked it up in windows before and updated the firmware, but I guess that wasn't enough, I had to to actually play back content in windows and change the source to spdif in windows, then I hooked it back up to my linux box and it "just worked"
[04:16:48] freedenizen: abqjp, thx for all your help I should have tried that at the start
[04:24:28] lotia: upgrading myth box. wanted to check, any advantage to getting a card faster than an nvidia 9400 for a frontend. hoping to use vdpau for decoding
[04:25:08] lotia: also anyone had success with sending audio over hdmi?
[04:25:11] wagnerrp: the 9500 seems to be the low limit for using all the deinterlacers
[04:25:34] wagnerrp: the 9400 should be able to do all but advanced 2x (and possibly 1x at 1080i)
[04:25:51] wagnerrp: furthermore, nvidia cards do not support HDMI audio
[04:26:13] lotia: wagnerrp: thanks
[04:26:28] wagnerrp: you may be able to mux in SPDIF audio, with a header... i dont know if that is supported in linux
[04:26:47] wagnerrp: however HDMI audio is only supported on the onboard nvidia graphics
[04:27:10] wagnerrp: where the graphics chip is tied into an HDA codec
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[04:27:42] lotia: wagnerrp: perhaps send spdif to video card
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[04:28:30] wagnerrp: discrete nvidia cards with HDMI outputs sometimes have SPDIF headers for the purpose of muxing in audio
[04:28:38] wagnerrp: i have no knowledge whether that works in linux
[04:29:10] wagnerrp: however SPDIF is considerably limited compared to HDMI audio
[04:29:34] wagnerrp: although with myth's current state, i dont know if there is any advantage of HDMI audio over SPDIF
[04:29:50] wagnerrp: (SPDIF is limited to older audio codecs and <2mbps)
[04:32:14] lotia: wagnerrp: can audio for broadcast hd be done over spdif.
[04:32:40] wagnerrp: broadcast audio is all AC3 (in the US anyway) which can be done over SPDIF
[04:33:52] lotia: wagnerrp: so, if i managed to send that over hdmi all broadcast stuff recorded on myth would work.
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[04:34:04] wagnerrp: yes
[04:34:08] lotia: since we are denied bluray decoding, i'm not too pushed about it atm
[04:34:21] wagnerrp: and if nothing else, you can decode and downmix anything to 2-channel PCM for SPDIF
[04:34:34] wagnerrp: denied bluray decoding?
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[04:35:16] lotia: wagnerrp: afaik no bluray support under linux
[04:35:34] wagnerrp: it doesnt mean youre 'denied'
[04:35:53] wagnerrp: you can rip the m2ts files under windows, or on linux in a windows VM
[04:35:59] wagnerrp: and then play the files with mythtv
[04:36:12] wagnerrp: there is just no direct playback support
[04:36:32] ** wagnerrp has a couple bluray, and a couple dozen hddvd **
[04:37:34] wagnerrp: there is no menu or iso support, and probably wont be for some time
[04:37:41] lotia: wagnerrp: so the naughty drm related stuff needs to be done on windows?
[04:38:14] wagnerrp: AACS can be done entirely within linux
[04:38:27] wagnerrp: but there are only a handful of BD disks without BD+
[04:38:44] lotia: wagnerrp: how do you handle bluray audio then?
[04:38:46] wagnerrp: there is very limited OSS support for BD+
[04:39:01] wagnerrp: but for the most part, you have to use AnyDVD HD under windows
[04:39:24] wagnerrp: at the moment, im just using 2-channel LPCM
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[04:39:50] wagnerrp: i have HDMI audio working, but cant seem to get any passthrough working
[04:40:23] wagnerrp: but considering im using a pair of tinny 10W speakers attached to an LCD TV... it wasnt really worth any effort trying to get it to work
[04:40:43] wagnerrp: the other two TVs are both analog audio
[04:41:01] lotia: http://us.msi.com/index.php?func=prodvgaspec& . . . no=1532#menu i wonder how one can supply had audio to this card since it claims to support it. wonder if support is windows only
[04:42:17] wagnerrp: the do claim to support it
[04:42:38] wagnerrp: maybe MSI put in a bridge chip and an azalia codec
[04:42:59] wagnerrp: i know ATI cards often have audio hardware, but i was unaware of any such nvidia cards
[04:43:04] lotia: unlikely. it says it suports passthrough
[04:43:41] wagnerrp: you cant do multi-channel LPCM through SPDIF passthrough
[04:43:54] wagnerrp: it only has the bandwidth to support 2-channel
[04:48:33] lotia: wagnerrp: thanks for the info. its been enlightening
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[05:31:41] difeta: hey all. I've installed a radeon 3450 with hdmi out. Although I can see and unmute the hdmi audio channel, I still can't get any sound. Any ideas?
[05:32:15] wagnerrp: most likely eusing the wrong audio output channel
[05:33:01] difeta: wagnerrp, the HDMI audio is the alsa default and mythtv is configured to use the alsa default.
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[06:03:14] iamlindoro: wagnerrp, more idiocy undone on the wiki
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[06:07:14] iamlindoro: stoffel, Thank you for clarifying the translation procedure for wagabunda
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[06:15:54] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: but everyone likes to drunkwiki
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[07:08:09] juski: wagnerrp: lol
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[07:47:44] jst_home: Is Live Preview for recordings broken, or is it just me? (trunk)
[07:49:13] juski: it's not just you
[07:50:37] jst_home: is there a ticket on file?
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[07:51:49] juski: AFAIK there needs to be a mythui video widget. And there isn't one yet
[07:52:13] jst_home: .22 material, or later?
[07:52:19] juski: no idea
[07:52:23] jst_home: k
[07:52:25] jst_home: thanks
[07:52:32] juski: personally I wouldn't class it as a big loss
[07:52:35] jst_home: Should I file a ticket for it?
[07:52:43] jst_home: Yeah, I can deal w/o it as well
[07:53:13] jst_home: maybe the UI to enable it should be taken out to avoid lots of complaints that it's not working?
[07:53:52] juski: maybe the plan is to fix it in time for 0.22
[07:55:14] _ben: i'm pretty happy with .22 so far
[07:55:26] _ben: :D
[07:55:27] Thomas-: Can anyone recommend a DVB-S PCI card that works fine with linux and is available for purchase now?
[07:55:30] _ben: altho i'm not using trunk
[07:56:05] juski: Thomas-: see linuxtv.org & the wiki there
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[07:58:45] juski: jst_home: I think http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/19603 explains things
[07:59:49] Thomas-: Anyone using DVB-S here? Is there any point in having a card with sat-in + out, doesn't each card require a separate feed from the LNB?
[08:00:15] juski: Thomas-: yes each card required a separate feed from an LNB
[08:00:19] juski: *requires
[08:00:40] juski: jst_home: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5763
[08:00:46] ** Thomas- wonders why some of them have sat-out then **
[08:01:26] juski: never seen that myself
[08:01:38] jst_home: juski: thanks!
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[08:20:48] AndyCap: Thomas-: well, you could tune the same polarity and band on a tuner connected to the out. but not terribly useful
[08:25:54] Thomas-: AndyCap: I see... does mythtv have support for this? I.e. can I tell mythtv that these cards share the same downlink?
[08:26:21] AndyCap: Thomas-: I doubt that.
[08:26:27] juski: how will mythtv know that they're the same polarity & band?
[08:26:33] juski: it can't know
[08:26:38] AndyCap: juski: uh, you need that to tune.
[08:27:28] juski: duh yeah
[08:27:30] juski: oops
[08:27:39] Thomas-: In DVB-C when you use multirec it understands it can only tune to channels on the same mux
[08:27:58] Thomas-: thought maybe this is similar
[08:27:59] juski: Thomas-: it's no practical use to mythtv
[08:28:30] juski: just get an LNB with enough outputs & run enough cables
[08:28:45] juski: they're both cheap enough these days
[08:28:51] AndyCap: hmm, do satcards support unicable?
[08:29:06] juski: not seen one yet
[08:29:24] juski: this is the new, one cable for up to 8 devices thing yeah?
[08:29:53] AndyCap: I don't know about new, but yeah
[08:31:42] juski: according to the wiki page I've got up it's a matter of sending diseqc stuff to the gear
[08:32:13] AndyCap: so one could do it in software then.
[08:32:18] juski: yup
[08:32:30] juski: erm.. apparently. Interesting stuff
[08:32:42] juski: less messy than 4 coax cables :)
[08:33:25] Thomas-: unicable would be nice
[08:34:27] juski: dreambox allegedly supports it
[08:35:11] juski: quite a few linux STBs actually
[08:36:04] juski: DVBViewer does too. heh
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[09:04:42] juski: work calling on my video conversion-fu now? whatever next?
[09:08:44] AndyCap: a raise?
[09:09:11] juski: funny
[09:09:19] mgisbers_away is now known as mgisbers
[09:09:51] juski: lucky to still have a job in this place
[09:09:56] AndyCap: your company isn't making money?
[09:10:14] juski: oh they are, sure. just not as much as they'd like
[09:10:48] juski: as much as they'd like being kind of 10 times what they made 5 years ago
[09:11:48] AndyCap: well, you are selling saftey blankets ^W^W security solution in these uncertain times where people yearn for comfort?
[09:12:21] juski: people don't have the budgets to replace systems or install new ones in this climate
[09:13:05] AndyCap: there's that
[09:13:10] juski: distributors have been holding back on orders while they clear stock out too
[09:14:15] juski: besides, IP CCTV is a load of BS. Nobody seems to have the infrastructure necessary.. or the know-how
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[09:15:07] juski: we had a CEO who came along, effectively kyboshed new product development right around the time our MD was saying we needed to steal a march on our competitors. Heh
[09:15:20] AndyCap: heh, not that many who do voip right either so no huge surprise
[09:15:55] juski: apparently the software our very successful products used was a crock of crap & had to be ported to another base
[09:16:05] AndyCap: oh lord.
[09:16:12] juski: 'to do it properly'
[09:16:21] juski: which did, in effect, screw everything/ Properly
[09:16:22] AndyCap: i.e. in my pet tech
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[09:16:51] juski: they eventually abandoned the code porting after 18 months when he realised it would never work
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[09:16:54] AndyCap: I think I read his in joels "10 things you should never do" :P
[09:17:15] AndyCap: hmm, not 10 things just things apparently. :P
[09:17:22] AndyCap: http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
[09:18:16] juski: we moved from a UI where we dealt directly with a framebuffer to one where everything is drawn in a browser. As in, HTML & javascript
[09:18:27] AndyCap: oh god
[09:18:42] juski: now you can actually see the UI pages being redrawn pixel line by pixel line
[09:18:56] juski: when you press a button, nothing seems to happen instantaneously anymore
[09:19:13] AndyCap: users really love that. :)
[09:19:29] juski: oh, and the majority of customers still have composite monitors. you like 800x600 webpages on composite displays?
[09:19:32] AndyCap: unfortunately it seems people get conditioned by the web to accept that. :(
[09:19:45] juski: *without* flicker filter because the low-cost video encoder we got lumbered with doesn't have one
[09:20:09] AndyCap: haha, yeah, I wasn't a big user of mythbrowser on my PAL tv.
[09:20:14] AndyCap: and that was RGB
[09:20:29] juski: at least nvidia TV encoders have nice flicker filtering though
[09:21:28] juski: the big joke is having Gig E on the boards
[09:22:20] AndyCap: and use baluns to connect to the existing coax cable? :-P
[09:22:32] juski: Gig E & 10/100.. never the twain shall meet. And we're getting approx 30Mb/sec over the gig connection
[09:23:07] jya: I get 60MB/s transferring files between my two box over gigabit, I enjoy the extra speed when moving big files ...
[09:23:45] juski: jya: yeah but you don't have an underpowered CPU isn't having to do work on the traffic, I'll bet ;-)
[09:24:09] juski: that didn't quite make sense. lol
[09:24:27] jya: I don't think you would need much CPU to transfer files ... though I've never looked at it.
[09:24:51] AndyCap: jya: well, think again.
[09:25:13] juski: everything our products do on the network needs the CPU. we just don't have the bus bandwidth to cope. heh
[09:25:43] AndyCap: jya: it depends what you do with the traffic and how.
[09:26:12] jya: I was purely moving a DVD image to burn it ..
[09:26:23] jya: moving 7GB takes a while
[09:27:05] juski: anyway what I'm saying is there's little point having a fast interface if you can't move data quickly across it – as is the case with this stuff ;-)
[09:27:39] juski: reaches bottlenecks faster(TM)
[09:27:46] jya: it's probably starting to get cheaper to put gigabit network controller than fast ethernet one.
[09:30:18] juski: all the hardware is getting pretty cheap now, almost to the point where it makes no sense to buy 10/100 kit
[09:32:21] jya: gigabit switch over 16 ports aren't cheap.
[09:32:38] jya: and most of them have fan in there, and being tiny fans, they are damn noisy
[09:32:50] juski: no doubt, but who has that much networking at home? ;-)
[09:33:11] jya: I have a Dell 3224 managed gigabit switch at home :)
[09:33:30] jya: two days ago I removed the 3 fans in there...
[09:33:32] juski: heh
[09:33:53] jst_home: I've got 4 24 port gigabit switches here at home :)
[09:34:05] jya: main reason to use a managed switch was for the IGMP proxying..
[09:34:22] juski: jst_home: less home, more of a server farm?
[09:34:45] ** AndyCap just has a little server garden **
[09:35:01] jya: My DSL provider supply IPTV channels using UDP multicast ; it would saturate all my wireless links ... only easy solution was an igmp proxy, and you need an expensive switch for that
[09:35:03] jst_home: juski: heh, no, it's nowhere near as bad as it sounds... they were dumping some old hardware at work, and those were in the lot, so I picked them up. Two of them are in use tho
[09:35:12] juski: jst_home: fair nuff.
[09:35:32] juski: I need to erm... 'borrow' some old rj45 patch panels for home
[09:35:42] jst_home: totally! :)
[09:37:16] jst_home: so the network remote control interface in trunk seems a bit flaky
[09:37:38] jst_home: anyone else noticed?
[09:38:38] jst_home: i.e. it causes the frontend to fall over at times, and sometimes won't let you connect etc
[09:39:34] jya: no problem here... I use it with my iphone..
[09:40:13] jst_home: hmm...
[09:40:37] jst_home: it generally mostly works here, but I've seen it misbehave several times tonight
[09:40:45] jst_home: I'll keep an eye on it...
[09:44:42] laga: jst_home: yeah, and report a bug if it persists :)
[09:44:49] jst_home: will do
[09:45:09] ** jst_home needs to get to bed... **
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[10:26:33] lyricnz: damn qt 4.5.2 broke my mythbackend
[10:26:38] lyricnz: qtstring ugh
[10:26:59] lyricnz: QString rather
[10:28:10] sulx: 4.5.2 working just fine here
[10:30:36] lyricnz: Did you need to rebuild or relink anything? I'm 100% binary RPM fedora, including rpmfusion for mythtv – and now it repeatably segfaults starting mythbackend.
[10:30:46] lyricnz: running in gdb, the backtrace is in qstring
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[10:31:39] lyricnz: EncoderLink::GetHostName => qstring. Could it be a config setting?!?
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[10:32:15] lyricnz: I mighta run mythtvsetup trying to get another backend working?
[10:32:53] sulx: dunno about rebuild because scripts build trunk every morning ;)
[10:33:18] lyricnz: heheh, talk about bleeding edge
[10:33:24] lyricnz: actually, I mighta just fixed it
[10:33:27] sulx: something light that
[10:33:38] lyricnz: deleted a spurious row from {cardinput}
[10:33:43] sulx: like even
[10:36:28] lyricnz: Thanks for listening to me, anyway :)
[10:36:36] lyricnz: It's running in gdb now, we'll see how it goes
[10:36:45] lyricnz: No problem running in gdb for a day or two?
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[10:42:52] Link: Morning all
[10:45:25] Link: Could anyone offer me some advise? I'm having some problems getting my Pc to see my tv tuner card
[10:45:28] sulx: lyricnz: might be slow
[10:53:15] juski: Link: try putting the card in front of your webcam. then it might 'see' it
[10:54:10] Link: I asked for that, didn't I?
[10:54:11] Link: :)
[10:54:34] juski: look in the syslog & dmesg for clues first of all :)
[10:54:47] Link: To clarify – "
[10:55:03] Link: "grep -i dvb /var/log/messages" gives "Aug 27 12:01:20 owner-desktop kernel: [ 10.208163] dvb_usb_af9015: probe of 2–1:1.0 failed with error -110
[10:55:03] Link: "
[10:55:25] juski: eew. doesn't look good
[10:55:28] Link: and Aug 27 12:01:20 owner-desktop kernel: [ 10.208209] usbcore: registered new interface driver dvb_usb_af9015
[10:56:15] juski: try in #linuxtv. They're the guys
[10:56:31] Link: Thanks, I'll give the a whirl :)
[10:56:36] Link: them*
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[11:04:24] gbee: any gotchas when replacing the mobo on an ubuntu system?
[11:04:41] gbee: I'd like to avoid having to reinstall the OS
[11:05:07] _ben: same cpu and stuff?
[11:05:20] gbee: only the board is changing
[11:05:33] laga: should be okay.
[11:05:47] _ben: yeah
[11:06:18] gbee: cool, gave me problems in the past hence the question
[11:07:40] gbee: now I just need to find something to clean the thermal paste off :)
[11:08:42] Link: alcohol and a lint free cloth..?
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[11:23:34] ** gbee opens a bottle of vodka **
[11:26:11] jduggan: uhm
[11:26:14] jduggan: at 12:40?
[11:26:16] jduggan: :P
[11:26:20] jduggan: or 30, rather
[11:26:23] gbee: nah, I've got a bottle of Methylated Spirits which should be fine, pure alcohol for cleaning isn't something I see around here
[11:26:43] jduggan: oh cleaning, there was me thinking you were a drunk
[11:27:12] gbee: not yet ;)
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[11:53:56] juski: hmm might have to do this blurring in shader code after all if popups aren't blocking. in the popup example, everything under the popup would have to be continually redrawn, blurred.
[11:55:30] juski: on screens with a lot of content changing that could be.. icky
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[12:01:34] quicksilver: being able to watch a blurred mini-preview of a recording in the window underneath would be spectacularly usless but very shiny :)
[12:01:45] quicksilver: (mind you the mini-previews are pretty useless anyway)
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[12:05:44] juski: sometimes the best way to do things happens to be the hardest. meh
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[12:43:17] gbee: hmm, new heatsink is asymmetric and instructions don't suggest which way around to place it :/
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[13:23:38] juski: ugh, been given some boards to build by hand & I have to solder the heat pad underneath these ICs too
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[13:29:58] BoumBoum: The Diva is making her concert at the Scala the Milano
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[13:33:36] BoumBoum:
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[13:33:44] BoumBoum: lafond
[13:40:00] juski: will somebody please ban these weird trolls?
[13:43:36] _ben: how strange
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[13:59:04] Gav8in: So far, so good. Found a funny bug in myth, and otherwise my ASRock ION is working pretty well as a frontend+backend
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[14:02:42] Gav8in: i'm having an interesting experience with interlaced output and having my TV deinterlace; I imagine it's just rate matching and bob's your uncle
[14:03:25] ** EvilBob counts nieces and nephews **
[14:04:01] ** Gav8in holding steady at zero **
[14:06:14] Gav8in: my sisters though, they're good aunts.
[14:06:47] ** Gav8in counts his double cousins. **
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[14:09:08] ** j-rod wonders out loud if comcast 'basic cable' includes clear qam hdtv versions **
[14:09:25] Gav8in: in cambridge, ma it often does i'm told.
[14:09:27] j-rod: of course, per that fcc thing from the other day, even if it does now, it might not for long...
[14:09:45] j-rod: verizon keeps jacking up the price for fiostv
[14:09:56] j-rod: going up another $10/mo shortly
[14:10:06] ** Gav8in just uses an antenna **
[14:10:12] j-rod: 95% of what I record is on the OTA channels
[14:10:32] j-rod: but I'd need a massive antenna to get a signal at my house
[14:10:33] J-e-f-f-A: j-rod: ick... and I was just thinking of switching TO it... humm...
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[14:10:54] Gav8in: j-rod, you've run tvfool.com's scanner on your address?
[14:11:17] j-rod: $52.99 base plus $9.99 for HD STB starting in october, iirc
[14:11:23] j-rod: Gav8in: antennaweb.org
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[14:11:52] Gav8in: tvfool is better
[14:12:04] j-rod: plus, our camper trailer has a decent sized winegard w/signal amp in it, and even that doesn't pick up shit out of boston
[14:12:11] j-rod: so I know I need something large
[14:12:36] j-rod: my house is surrounded by ~200ft tall trees
[14:13:46] Gav8in: amps are often bad for antennas
[14:14:54] j-rod: I've tried with it removed, no change
[14:15:32] Gav8in: well, i'm sorry to hear that. try tvfool's locator though, it's more specific and might help you out
[14:15:43] Gav8in: i'm in cambridge, ma and i'm OK with a single indoor antenna
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[14:16:11] j-rod: looking at it now
[14:16:22] j-rod: cambridge doesn't have 200ft trees
[14:16:33] Gav8in: yeah, that's true.
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[14:16:47] Gav8in: but we have the Stata Center. Now that's a pretty building!
[14:16:56] j-rod: most stuff is in the red and/or grey area
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[14:17:12] Gav8in: then you seem like a good candidate for cable!
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[14:17:27] j-rod: in other words, they say the same thing antennaweb does: you're screwed
[14:20:13] j-rod: hah, it also mentions that trees are not taken into account
[14:20:58] Gav8in: i guess they don't have the national forest service's latest full arbory survey in GIS format
[14:21:03] Gav8in: if they put that in their model...
[14:21:28] j-rod: nah, you just add a "are there lots of tall trees around you" checkbox.
[14:21:40] j-rod: and add a fudge-factor for that
[14:21:43] Gav8in: "are they big fscking trees?"
[14:22:02] j-rod: are they big, and are there lots of them
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[14:22:47] j-rod: comcast basic cable at $13.55/mo is starting to look kind of sensible for me
[14:22:50] j-rod: much as I hate comcast
[14:23:54] j-rod: or, hell, I have 20Mbps of internet pipe...
[14:24:10] ** j-rod needs to look at that miro bridge stuff again :) **
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[14:27:36] iamlindoro: it's good stuff
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[14:29:38] j-rod: main things I'd miss from my current service: ESPN HD, Fox Soccer Channel and Spike TV (UFC Unleashed)
[14:33:08] J-e-f-f-A: Gee, found out my HD-3000 seems to have gone south... Couldn't scan or tune anything with it on my trunk test box (had been on a shelf for about a year now in an anti-static bag), but putting in my 1250 worked just fine...
[14:37:08] j-rod: my own 3000 went pretty sideways too after sitting around a while
[14:37:12] j-rod: was a borked eeprom
[14:37:25] j-rod: manually fixed it up, now it can scan OTA again, at least
[14:37:48] j-rod: (I know that sounds like its in conflict w/what I said earlier... but OTA scanning at the office, not at home) :)
[14:37:51] J-e-f-f-A: j-rod: How'd you fix it up? re-program it?
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[14:38:04] j-rod: i2csomething
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[14:38:32] J-e-f-f-A: j-rod: Ah, so you found a utility to re-program it in the computer itself?
[14:38:49] rheo: I have no data in the frontend program guide or mythweb. How can i fix this?
[14:38:49] j-rod: yup
[14:39:12] j-rod: J-e-f-f-A: one sec, lemme see if I can refresh my memory...
[14:39:29] J-e-f-f-A: rheo: You need a listing source – if you're in the US, Schedules Direct – outside the US, a grabber script.
[14:40:01] rheo: i am in australia, using "shepherd"as a source. it has data
[14:40:26] J-e-f-f-A: rheo: Evidentially it's not in MythTV's database then, otherwise you'd see it...
[14:41:28] j-rod: $ mythfilldatabase
[14:41:54] rheo: i have run that however it still does not appear
[14:42:13] j-rod: do you have your source mapped to a capture device?
[14:42:43] j-rod: if not, no soup for you
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[14:43:31] j-rod: J-e-f-f-A: //www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@vger.kernel.org/msg07756.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@vger. . . . sg07756.html
[14:44:40] j-rod: there's a corresponding binary in i2c-tools that can write
[14:44:59] J-e-f-f-A: j-rod: (Looking now...  ;-)
[14:45:07] j-rod: but check first that your eeprom is actually hosed
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[14:45:24] j-rod: you need the i2c-dev module loaded for all this prodding, btw
[14:45:47] j-rod: i2cset
[14:46:21] J-e-f-f-A: j-rod: cool. Something to play around with when i get home from work tonight... ;-)
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[14:48:05] j-rod: J-e-f-f-A: note that while I restored OTA functionality, I seem to recall it failing to scan QAM
[14:48:29] J-e-f-f-A: thanks j-rod .... ;-) ^^ I don't have cable, so all I care about is ATSC right now. ;-)
[14:48:39] j-rod: ah, ok
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[14:49:16] j-rod: then if its indeed eeprom corruption like mine (dunno how it would happen to have happened the same as mine, but it could be), i2cset might be just the ticket
[14:50:03] J-e-f-f-A: j-rod: I have a HD-Homerun now for my HD – I threw this into a trunk test box, and was about to complain about the channel scanner [still?] not working, but then decided to throw my 1250 in there, and discovered it was my HD3000... (good thing I didn't open a ticket!)
[14:50:27] j-rod: heh
[14:52:08] j-rod: I really ought to change my dvb cards to open-on-demand...
[14:52:33] J-e-f-f-A: ... and at first I thought my 1250 was bad too, as booting up I just got a blank screen with a flashing cursor – but come to find out, it's a PCIe device, and it had pushed my Nvidia graphics card up one, so the driver yelled "no screens found!"... doh! Quick fix, after an initial 'wtf?'...
[14:55:23] J-e-f-f-A: j-rod: Humm... I wonder if it's the same issue as you — the /dev/dvb devices appear, just don't scan... is that what you had?
[14:55:40] anykey_: which themes in Trunk do support fanart?
[14:56:21] janneg: graphite
[14:56:21] j-rod: J-e-f-f-A: oh, crud, right... if you're getting /dev/dvb/ stuff showing up, you've got different breakage
[14:56:58] j-rod: J-e-f-f-A: you *do* have the firmware for the card in place, right?
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[15:01:16] J-e-f-f-A: j-rod: Humm... I don't recall if I put the firmware on that box or not... DOH!
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[15:02:09] j-rod: that would definitely make a difference ;)
[15:02:26] ** J-e-f-f-A goes and stands in the corner with the dunce cap on for 5 minutes... DOH! **
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[15:07:18] gbee: anykey_: Terra can, but it was created before fanart was added so IMHO it doesn't look too good, it's disabled on some gallery screens but is available in browse mode
[15:11:33] iamlindoro: Even in Graphite they were sort of an afterthought
[15:11:49] iamlindoro: well... what I really mean is Graphite was me learning how to theme, and I'm ready to put it behind me
[15:12:21] iamlindoro: I'll maintain it but I definitely don't want it thought of as my Magnum Opus :)
[15:12:48] anykey_: Graphite would look so much better with the variable button width stuff for the buttonlist ;)
[15:13:27] iamlindoro: There are a great many things that would make Graphite look better :)
[15:14:27] iamlindoro: I've decided that in the interest of not compromising, I'm going to write my next theme using proprietary fonts, and let people who want to use it buy them themselves
[15:14:35] iamlindoro: Which I am sure is going to raise some hackles
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[15:15:22] anykey_: which fonts are you thinking of?
[15:15:51] iamlindoro: Frutiger, among others (Frutiger was the original Graphite font, which was subbed out late in writing it)
[15:16:10] jams: nothing wrong with that.
[15:16:41] iamlindoro: jams: I don't think so either... but I'll surely hear from the "information wants to be free" crowd
[15:16:49] jams: Thats part of the reason i used images for the buttons.
[15:17:01] jams: or menu items
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[15:17:20] iamlindoro: http://www.fecitfacta.com/possible.png
[15:17:28] iamlindoro: Goofing around with something very minimalist like that
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[15:17:57] iamlindoro: Would like to investigate OpenGL Glow and Blur effects (Though gbee may have both on his list)
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[15:18:24] iamlindoro: The big thing is I would love the glow effect to be able to conform to the object size it is applied to
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[15:19:36] jams: just place some random glow bug in the corner
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[15:20:28] iamlindoro: tired of hacking visual effects
[15:20:32] iamlindoro: ready to see them done properly
[15:21:13] jams: going to be a long day. Just started and i'm already ready to call it a day
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[15:21:43] anykey_: iamlindoro: good I already own Frutiger then :)
[15:21:59] iamlindoro: anykey_: Figured all the swiss had to own it, by law ;)
[15:22:19] iamlindoro: And anyone living within 100 kilometers of Charles De Gaulle airport
[15:23:21] juski: iamlindoro: ok then I'll give up what I'm doing
[15:23:34] anykey_: iamlindoro: well, I don't own it really, the license just says that I can use the font if my employee bought it ;)
[15:23:41] iamlindoro: juski: Funny, I had you in mind for helping me get things done properly :)
[15:24:08] iamlindoro: juski: Planned to see your execution on the basics so that I can learn and help :)
[15:24:26] juski: iamlindoro: from what I've researched so far, shaders seem the way to go
[15:24:36] juski: which is a bit erm... EEK
[15:25:02] juski: it's either that or rely on the CPU to do FX.. in which case WTF is the point in even using GL ;-)
[15:26:11] ** iamlindoro wonders if he should bother adding Qt effects: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/blobs/ad339905f . . . cseffect.cpp **
[15:26:40] juski: I wouldn't
[15:27:09] iamlindoro: Looks like it's not going to be added natively until 4.6 anyway
[15:27:11] Dassu: oke, last time I will ask this: Is somebody here using mythstream with youtube parser ?
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[15:29:05] iamlindoro: Would like to see blur in for .23, though
[15:29:24] iamlindoro: would be cool to blur rather than darken the BG when bringing up a popup
[15:29:34] juski: iamlindoro: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/ . . . rrotate.diff
[15:29:41] juski: iamlindoro: it's much more complex than it sounds
[15:29:58] juski: well not *that* complex
[15:30:11] juski: but could end up being CPU intensive if not done properly
[15:30:22] juski: especially at large resolutions
[15:31:11] juski: we could get around blurring each individual object if we render each screen as a texture first, then blur the texture & put it onscreen
[15:31:34] juski: but then we still need blur for individual elements too
[15:35:45] juski: blurring the whole screen each element (and its child elements) at a time could be costly ;-)
[15:36:47] iamlindoro: Well if my nintendo 64 could do it ;)
[15:37:02] juski: yeah but it was prolly doing it with shaders
[15:37:18] iamlindoro: heh, I understand, just saying it would be a nice to have, that's all
[15:37:25] juski: and not at 1080p ;-)
[15:37:49] quicksilver: the N64 didn't have shaders; well not in the sense we understand them now.
[15:38:02] juski: next I'll try & get individual elements blurring first
[15:38:10] juski: that should be straightforward enough
[15:38:45] juski: it's a pity the 2d convolution filter stuff isn't accelerated ;-)
[15:39:10] j-rod: 720p hdpvr clip that sucks up roughly 125% cpu (dual-core 2.67 with nvidia quadro nvs 285 & binary driver) only uses about 50% most of the time (ranges from 25% to 80%)
[15:39:18] j-rod: using hardware decoding
[15:39:54] iamlindoro: j-rod: Guess the interestingness of that news is highly dependent on which hardware is doing the decoding :)
[15:40:08] j-rod: indeed
[15:40:30] j-rod: using !nvidia hardware decoding
[15:40:35] iamlindoro: hehe
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[15:40:52] j-rod: (this card is too old to do vdpau, for one)
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[15:42:41] juski: iamlindoro: if I can pull off blurring, maybe bump mapping too :P
[15:42:49] iamlindoro: neato
[15:42:50] juski: real frosted glass effect :D
[15:42:52] iamlindoro: yeah
[15:43:05] juski: don't hold yer breath ;-)
[15:43:53] juski: and of course any blurring needs to be animated
[15:44:34] iamlindoro: At this point I would be thrilled just to have crossfades between dynamic imagetypes
[15:44:48] iamlindoro: so that fanart/etc. didn't "splat" onto the screen
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[15:55:18] Gav8in: so i complained to the FCC about locals that didn't have PSIP information
[15:55:34] Gav8in: we'll see if they do anything.
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[16:21:59] juski: well, I think it's time to say The Weekend Starts Here :-D
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[16:25:51] iamlindoro: bah!
[16:25:58] iamlindoro: 9:25 AM on Thursday morning :)
[16:27:21] laga: 6:27pm here ;)
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[16:30:32] iamlindoro: well super ;)
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[16:35:30] iamlindoro: So Windows can now be a backend, god help us
[16:35:44] iamlindoro: Maybe someone will write a BDA interface for .23 :)
[16:35:53] ** iamlindoro looks pointedly at mkrufky **
[16:36:30] ss1981: hello. Can anyone tell me if there is a way to change web service used by mythweather? Is there a howto to do this? The reason of my question is that I need to find weather info for italy...
[16:36:35] J-e-f-f-A: eek!
[16:37:26] iamlindoro: ss1981: You would need to write a script that pulls from the weather service you want using the existing grabbers as an example
[16:37:39] iamlindoro: there is none for Italy right nowas far as I know
[16:41:08] J-e-f-f-A: What the heck is a "Native MythTV archive" BTW?
[16:42:06] iamlindoro: The "Native" type export created w/ MythArchive
[16:42:12] iamlindoro: expots files + XML metadata
[16:42:26] mkrufky: niiice
[16:42:34] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: Ah, ok. ;-)
[16:42:46] mkrufky: id be happy to play with that... and im sure my company would enjoy that too
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[16:43:13] iamlindoro: mkrufky: As of last nightish, backend + Schedules Direct + HDHomeRun will run on windows
[16:43:28] ** wagnerrp woke up with a dead arm... **
[16:43:30] iamlindoro: but no BDA interface :)
[16:43:31] gbee: sexpots files?
[16:43:49] ** iamlindoro is confused **
[16:44:09] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: once you're arm's awake again, did you have any luck with NX?
[16:44:32] gbee: wagnerrp: well I hope it was yours and not just some severed limb
[16:44:59] wagnerrp: J-e-f-f-A: nah, didnt put a lot of effort into it, and have since forgotten about it
[16:46:27] wagnerrp: BDA... so you can use ISOs?
[16:46:52] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: BDA... so you can use windows capture cards
[16:46:53] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: :-( Well, it's about 100x better than VNC IMHO – it's like using windoze Remote Desktop on a local LAN, but super-fast, even over a WAN... ;-)
[16:47:26] wagnerrp: thefreedictionary fails at acronyms
[16:48:38] iamlindoro: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/broadcast.mspx
[16:49:07] wagnerrp: ah
[16:50:03] wagnerrp: if only that could be used for cablecards....
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[18:25:31] mkrufky: i was afk, but thats great news iamlindoro
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[18:26:04] iamlindoro: mkrufky: backend on windows? Heh, now someone needs to start making it do some sort of windows-y things
[18:26:43] sphery: but, backends don't even have windows???
[18:26:59] sphery: So, on windows, does it run as a real service?
[18:27:15] sphery: or is it running with a command prompt somewhere?
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[18:27:40] iamlindoro: Well, it's an executable, but so are all windows services AFAIK
[18:27:46] iamlindoro: just added to the services menu
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[18:31:43] wagnerrp: anyone know the syntax to download the source zip file off trac?
[18:31:59] sphery: I don't really know my windows, but I was just wondering (as having to log in to run a program is annoying--especially when things like screen savers log you out and stop your running programs or whatever). Anyway, I'm sure if it becomes worth using, someone will work on making it "prettier"/easier.
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[18:32:21] sphery: wagnerrp: source zip? svn cat?
[18:32:31] sphery: (assuming you don't want the svn stuff...)
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[18:32:41] wagnerrp: sphery: there are programs you can get to add arbitrary programs as services in windows
[18:32:51] wagnerrp: or if you know how, you can add them manually
[18:33:17] sphery: yeah, I remember doing that with Apache (Jakarta, back then) Tomcat 3.x
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[18:33:41] sphery: I think windows has a built in DLL wrapper that does it, but the syntax is horrid
[18:33:47] wagnerrp: sphery: theres some URL magic that will have the server zip up a copy of the requested subversion revision and make it available for download
[18:34:30] sphery: ohhh
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[18:36:43] wagnerrp: http:/svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/<revision>/trunk?old_path=/&format =zip
[18:37:03] wagnerrp: actually, i wonder if that is what is causing trac to be so slow?
[18:37:26] wagnerrp: everyone and their package manager downloading source packages
[18:37:32] kormoc: yeah, it doesn't help
[18:38:06] wagnerrp: i know gentoo switched over to that (from using subversion directly) not too long ago
[18:38:14] sphery: I did an svn co exactly once...
[18:38:34] kormoc: yeah, in order to cache it on the gentoo distribution servers
[18:38:46] kormoc: so the idea is you'll never actually hit our server
[18:38:51] wagnerrp: oh
[18:38:59] sphery: I have multiple working copies for multiple branches and using multiple URI's... All easy enough with tar + svn merge/svn switch
[18:39:20] sphery: Though I admit that a "package" like the ebuild couldn't actuallydo that
[18:39:33] kormoc: it *could*
[18:39:37] wagnerrp: sphery: actually, it used to
[18:39:49] Gav8in: dumb question: if I play 24fps progressive content to an 1080i output, is mythtv clever enough to telecine it?
[18:40:03] sphery: well, I mean the whole "trusting the state of some wc that a user got months ago and that sat around since then"
[18:40:08] kormoc: I actually keep meaning to update it to do one pull for the plugins/core/themes rather then a pile
[18:40:09] wagnerrp: it would maintain a local copy that it would work off of
[18:40:14] sphery: doing it at the gentoo server level would work
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[18:41:12] wagnerrp: Gav8in: mythtv does no such thing, it just passes the uncompressed video to the video card
[18:41:14] sphery: Gav8in: there's limited inverse telecine support (patches welcomed :)
[18:41:21] wagnerrp: the video card does as it pleases for output
[18:41:32] wagnerrp: (assuming youre using Xvideo)
[18:41:50] Gav8in: i use VDPAU. I'll read the code; i'm not asking about inverse telecine as much as telecine
[18:41:50] wagnerrp: sphery: hes looking for inverse inverse telecine support
[18:41:52] sphery: if you mean does it telecine for the tv out, then no
[18:42:01] Gav8in: or, yeah, inverse inverse telecine!
[18:42:31] Gav8in: i today had limited success in getting my stupid TV to deinterlace for me; it was beating in and out of having the fields out of sync
[18:42:42] Gav8in: 15 seconds of v. good, 15 seconds of obvious comb
[18:42:45] wagnerrp: but... your tv is 1080i?
[18:43:01] Gav8in: well, i set up a modeline to feed 1080i to the TV
[18:43:28] Gav8in: to see if it's deinterlacing works well; and it was almost right. i bet me using a 60Hz modeline was part of the trouble, I'll try 59.94 tonight
[18:43:47] wagnerrp: so you want to telecine 1080p24 content, so the TV will ivtc back to progressive
[18:43:59] Gav8in: the TV also does inverse telecine, so presumably that's one way to play progressive video on the TV,
[18:44:00] Gav8in: right
[18:44:11] wagnerrp: sounds excessive
[18:44:28] Gav8in: the TV's EID claimed modes aren't great for progressive video otherwise; vHz 58–72, HSync 30–68kHz and max dot clock of 150Mhz
[18:44:41] Gav8in: wagner, yes, i am not hopeful that i'll actually be able to do it
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[18:45:40] Gav8in: so, I can't set up a 72Hz mode for video... needs a 167.75MHz dot clock!
[18:45:43] wagnerrp: well the tv would just do a 3–2 multiplier to 60fps
[18:45:51] wagnerrp: which is what the video card would do internally anyway
[18:46:03] wagnerrp: 3 copies of one frame, 2 copies of the next, erc...
[18:46:09] Gav8in: that's telecine, yes
[18:46:14] wagnerrp: no, thats not
[18:46:46] wagnerrp: telecine takes you from 4 progressive frames, to 10 interlaced fields... this would be 4 progressive frames to 10 progressive frames
[18:47:06] wagnerrp: look at most 720p TV shows and youll see that
[18:47:16] Gav8in: ah, i am sorry, i was confused
[18:47:35] Gav8in: so the TV WOUL~ ~~~~[3~~~~
[18:47:56] Gav8in: weird, shift locked on me.
[18:48:00] wagnerrp: 24fps to 60fps would just be ABCD to AABBBCCDDD
[18:48:08] wagnerrp: full frames
[18:48:12] Gav8in: i don't know that the TV would actually do that, it's LCD
[18:48:21] wagnerrp: it must do that
[18:48:30] Gav8in: why's that?
[18:48:31] wagnerrp: it wants to run at 60fps
[18:48:41] wagnerrp: its a rare tv that will actually run at 24fps
[18:48:43] Gav8in: that's the part i'm stuck at
[18:49:07] Gav8in: yeah, mine claims only to work 58Hz to 72Hz
[18:49:43] wagnerrp: if you have a 120hz TV, it may be able to get it to just quintuple each frame, so 24fps content plays smoothly
[18:50:07] wagnerrp: or more likely, it does some temporal filter, so you get this weird motion blur
[18:51:01] Gav8in: I don't think it's 120Hz, so perhaps I will get that motion blur
[18:51:20] Gav8in: in any case, the problem at hand, and i think one I'm close to solving, is just using a 1080i modeline, and doing no deinterlacing in myth/vdpau
[18:51:29] wagnerrp: of course then you get these new 240hz TVs advertised as moar better, just because you can have more motion blur
[18:51:44] wagnerrp: although theyre almost certainly running TN panels in order to get that framerate
[18:51:57] wagnerrp: which means your color reproduction and viewing angle is crap
[18:52:41] jduggan: off topic to myth, but any of you guys recommend some software to record linux desktop
[18:53:10] wagnerrp: i should probably be using Administrator to run this windows myth build script...
[18:53:21] wagnerrp: jduggan: not off hand, but you might want to ask iamlindoro
[18:53:24] wagnerrp: i know hes done it before
[18:54:36] highzeth: jduggan: recordmydesktop is decent.
[18:55:04] iamlindoro: I use Istanbul
[18:55:27] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: looks like Dell has the HDPVR for $150 again
[18:55:27] jduggan: thanks guys
[18:56:48] juski: jduggan: I found xvidcap to be ok. poor framerate on my C2D 1.6 laptop though
[18:57:36] sphery: iamlindoro: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)?
[18:57:54] wagnerrp: sphery: you cant go back to Constantinople
[18:57:57] iamlindoro: har har
[18:58:00] sphery: ^^^ bad joke/song ref, so don't look up Constantinople
[18:58:08] iamlindoro: TMBG
[18:58:15] AndyCap: not to mention 600Hz tv's.
[18:58:17] Gav8in: wagner, thanks for the information
[18:58:40] Gav8in: i just hope i can make my darn TV show up purdy, and I think i actually have a hope of that
[19:00:34] messerting: Is there a way I can tell if a certain channel is a pure EIT transport channel on DVB-C?
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[19:01:13] messerting: I tried to use only two FTA channels, but got no EIT data, so I think my cable tv provider might use a separate channel for EIT
[19:01:51] messerting: or maybe I didn't wait long enough – 30 mins
[19:02:15] juski: a full EIT crawl can take a while
[19:02:32] wagnerrp: seems 64-bit windows breaks the windows setup script
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[19:02:58] juski: iamlindoro: btw also coming in qt4.6 (maybe later even) – built in animation classes
[19:03:15] wagnerrp: it expects mysql to be in 'C:\Program Files\MySQL', but under 64-bit windows, it gets shoved to 'Program Files (x86)'
[19:03:34] juski: heh. oh, also looking like qt4.6 – QGLShader
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[19:04:04] iamlindoro: juski: Heh, bastards coming up w/ it too late
[19:04:29] juski: looks like the QAnimation stuff is going to do a *lot*
[19:05:41] iamlindoro: juski: http://blog.eduardofleury.com/archives/2009/02/51/
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[19:06:29] juski: yeah seen that one
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[19:07:35] juski: and 4.5 apparently has a nice gl engine that can use different painters if need be. but isn't nice cross-platform.
[19:07:40] juski: so irrelevant
[19:13:04] juski: iamlindoro: have any idea how many elements the most taxing screen in graphite has onscreen at any one time – including images, text, masks etc ?
[19:13:26] iamlindoro: juski: Where image + mask = two elements?
[19:13:52] juski: oh wait they're masked in mythimage so only count as one
[19:14:08] iamlindoro: In that case my rough estimate is 91
[19:14:24] iamlindoro: erm, 101
[19:15:10] juski: hmmm. might not be so bad doing a quick & dirty 2d matrix operation for a blur
[19:15:23] iamlindoro: 5 x 16 cover images + 6 text areas + 2 shapes + 3 text areas
[19:15:27] iamlindoro: just a very rough guess
[19:15:41] juski: I'll have to knock up a test. thing is, graphite is pretty slow on my fastest machine anyway :(
[19:15:43] iamlindoro: erm the last one is imagetypes, sorry
[19:15:54] sphery: wagnerrp: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6868
[19:16:34] juski: iamlindoro: btw that 'bug' with the redraw – I found the ticket for it I think but it didn't look like what I thought was going on
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[19:17:01] iamlindoro: juski: If the ticket is by me the description isn't very accurate
[19:17:22] sphery: iamlindoro: couldn't you just do all the animation with Flash? (And lots of fire!)
[19:17:24] juski: IIRC the ticket said something about the draw order getting messed up
[19:17:42] iamlindoro: juski: Yeah, that was mine, and sort of veolved into the current understanding of the bug
[19:17:45] sphery: Some conversations are just too good to forget...
[19:17:46] iamlindoro: I'll go fix it
[19:17:54] iamlindoro: sphery: It's visual communication!
[19:18:03] kormoc: Woo!
[19:18:06] juski: not about constant redraws being called in error – which is what I thought was the crux of the slowness on !nvidia
[19:18:21] iamlindoro: juski: There are multiple issues
[19:18:45] juski: one of which being that the whole screen is being redrawn every millisecond pulse?
[19:18:51] iamlindoro: juski: first one is if you extend off the edge of the screen in two axes the painter will redraw things in the wrong oder then it updates
[19:18:59] iamlindoro: Which is the one referred to in that bug
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[19:19:04] juski: gotcha
[19:19:21] iamlindoro: juski: The second is the constant redraw, which I technically don't have a bug opened for
[19:19:26] juski: ah
[19:20:27] juski: I still dunno enough about how mythui works to even get any kind of handle on it. I tried some VERBOSE in there but everything seemed ok – pointed to something qt-ish for a while but I was confuzzled
[19:20:28] iamlindoro: But I figure someone will have to look at it RSN
[19:20:55] iamlindoro: as a metric crapload of people are likely to run into it someday soon
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[19:21:32] juski: I still suspect it might be something getting normalised unexpectedly. no way I could debug it on current screen layouts
[19:21:44] juski: leave it to a grownup :)
[19:22:14] iamlindoro: heh
[19:22:47] juski: still need to clean up my rotate code. right now my patch/hack has mixed parsing
[19:23:15] juski: some in mythuiimage & some in mythuitype. I'll figure it out one way or the other
[19:23:48] juski: think I might need to bring in another struct to pass things around
[19:24:41] juski: most fun I've ever had with code though, evah :)
[19:25:48] juski: sod zoomfade transitions, let's peel all the elements off one by one & send them onto the horizon :D
[19:26:27] juski: ahem. who was it kept saying he couldn't give a rat's ass about animation? guilty as charged
[19:27:05] iamlindoro: hehe
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[19:27:18] AndyCap: what is the penalty? watch one moovida demo video?
[19:27:28] iamlindoro: for my next effort I would very happy w/ animated buttonlists and maybe some blur would be nice
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[19:27:49] ** iamlindoro wonders how high animation is on gbee's priority list for .23 **
[19:28:58] sphery: I hope it's somewhere underneath, "Take a well-deserved break."
[19:29:46] messerting: Anyone here using gloss for mythtv? (http://code.google.com/p/gloss-mc/)
[19:29:49] gbee: iamlindoro: lower down the list than just finishing the porting and fixing up some UI issues generally, considering the time frame it could potentially slip to 0.24, I need to learn the lesson of 0.22 – time is short
[19:30:20] kormoc: messerting, nope, and we wouldn't recommend it, as it's a bit of a mess, will break with every update because rather then use our API/interfaces, he's doing database direct communications, etc
[19:30:21] gbee: messerting: no, we don't want that piece of shit
[19:30:48] messerting: hehe, I hear you, np :)
[19:30:56] messerting: I actually tried it once
[19:31:07] messerting: had a hard time even getting it to compile
[19:31:24] messerting: anyway – I like the look of 0.22 in trunk very much – nice work
[19:31:34] kormoc: compile? it's python code....
[19:32:05] messerting: kormoc: yes, sorry – I meant running without barfing a backtrace
[19:32:20] messerting: and when I got rid of those, I ended up with a segfault
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[19:40:15] gbee: messerting: we're working towards a better UI for MythTV, but without throwing out all the accumulated functionality and features of the current frontend, 0.22 is a step but it's not the end of the journey by a long shot
[19:42:35] gbee: it's all very easy to start from scratch and make a very pretty, but very limited/basic frontend as was done for Gloss, and I wonder what might have been if instead of wasted efforts on things like Gloss people had contributed to the official application instead :/
[19:43:40] kyler: gbee: I'd be very interested in a trunk-compatible version of Gloss.
[19:43:51] iamlindoro: we wouldn't
[19:44:13] iamlindoro: and we don't have any association w/ Gloss... so go ask him for it
[19:44:37] juski: one guy messing with python (eew) vs how many mythtv developers/contributors?
[19:45:29] kormoc: kyler, if the guy would get a clue and used the python API we *provide* rather then roll his own, it would work a lot better, but he wants nothing to do with us
[19:45:53] iamlindoro: and because of that, the feeling has become mutual :)
[19:46:01] kormoc: exactly
[19:46:19] juski: that's not to say that it doesn't show promise of good ideas we could all benefit from IMHO
[19:46:25] kyler: I don't have a whole lot of interest in the sentiment.
[19:47:09] kyler: I'll try to fire it up when I have time (ha!).
[19:47:29] kormoc: as long as we don't have to hear about it being broken
[19:47:39] juski: I can certainly see the attraction of junk like clutter, but AFAIK they've done some nasty API changes in the past which has required major rewrites of things using it
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[19:49:13] juski: the benefit of doing stuff in mythtv itself is that there's only mythtv to answer to :)
[19:49:18] kyler: Clutter is what has kept me from using Gloss. Ubuntu doesn't seem to have one of the libraries it needs.
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[19:49:35] juski: the downside of doing everything yourself is.. well – having to do it all yourself :)
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[19:51:02] kyler: Hmmm...and it looks like XBMC might be further along and offer some of the same advantages.
[19:51:23] sphery: but lacks many of the advantages of mythfrontend
[19:51:27] kyler: Gosh, I've been out of the loop for way too long.
[19:51:34] kormoc: XBMC also is one of the "We don't use myth's api" and has a fair bit of issues
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[19:52:20] juski: animation alone is seemingly enough for people to jump ship – nevermind the limited functionality compared to mythfrontend
[19:52:42] juski: if we had more help in that department it'd come to mythtv sooner
[19:53:48] kyler: Ick. Pointless animation turns me away quickly.
[19:55:21] gbee: benefits of using our own system are many, a lot of these ui libs just aren't designed for our use-case i.e. Remote controls/Touchscreen control, displayed on 25" TVs or 10' projections viewed from a distance of 5 to 30 feet
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[19:56:31] kyler: I especially like the sounds of XBMC's remote control and plug-in capabilities.
[19:56:43] gbee: then there is portability, new painters can be written for any platform and we currently offer both QT/OpenGL and VDPAU (meaning we support Windows, OSX, *BSD, *nix already)
[19:57:49] kyler: Maybe I've finally found something to do with the 32" display sitting next to me.
[19:57:49] iamlindoro: kyler: w/ all due respect, this is the place for discussion of MythTV, and specifically MythTV software written by the MythTV project-- if you want to discuss your ardor for those projects, by all means-- but please do it in their channels
[19:58:40] kyler: iamlindoro: Yeah, I got the feeling you'd go there. "None shall use mythbackend without complete devotion to mythfrontend" and all that. Got it.
[19:58:48] ** kormoc sighs **
[19:58:57] kormoc: kyler, it's not that, it's just they're off topic for this channel...
[19:59:04] gbee: the theming system we use means that it's possible to create themes suitable for devices from mobile phones through to commercial applications such as touchscreen kiosk – we already have universities, hospitals and airlines either using mythtv or seriously considering it
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[20:01:21] kyler: kormoc: It's an interesting attitude. Do you think disallowing people from discussing ways to use Myth with other packages might have anything to do with your observation that other package creators don't have an interest in communicating?
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[20:02:46] kormoc: kyler, they're welcome to talk about development and interoperability, but when they decide to not work with us to get them to work together, they distance them from our project, and that is their choice to do, and thus when they do that, it's off topic
[20:03:18] kormoc: kyler, we'd be glad to help them use our bindings/apis/etc, but given they have no interest in doing so, we have no interest in supporting their software
[20:04:01] kyler: kormoc: In this case (right now), the point is that users aren't even allowed to comment on other ways to access mythbackend here because it's off-topic. That's quite a wall.
[20:04:05] gbee: and by 'supporting' we mean helping out users of their product when it's broken
[20:04:38] messerting: In mythtv-setup, when I've set up capture cards and input connections, exited, used mythtv, and then go back in myhtv-setup, it seems that the input group of my card is changed to "HDHR_/dev/dvb/...."
[20:04:53] messerting: is that how it should be, or should I change it back to "Generic"?
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[20:05:12] kormoc: kyler, you're not commenting, you're giving a detailed run down of your future plans to work with unsupported software, and the plain fact is, we don't give a rat's ass
[20:05:28] messerting: (the dots is "adapter1/frontend0")
[20:07:08] messerting: I try to use multirec btw
[20:07:28] gbee: messerting: I've seen that, and although I suspect it's a bug, it doesn't seem to break anything, so you can leave it alone for now
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[20:08:00] messerting: gbee: ok. the reason I ask is that I've got problems recording stuff...
[20:08:19] messerting: livetv works, and does show up in recordings, but if i schedule a recording, it won't work
[20:08:31] ** iamlindoro suspects kyler is in some four-lettered chat room complaining about how mean we are right now **
[20:08:34] messerting: the backend complains about the file is missing, and program not in PAT etc
[20:09:33] messerting: I'm doing a new scan now (have used the "delete all" buttons in the setup, oh yes)
[20:09:35] sphery: iamlindoro: KOZP?
[20:09:42] iamlindoro: presumably
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[20:10:24] sphery: messerting: sounds like you have your system set to use Quick Tuning on LiveTV only. Try flipping that switch to all and/or nothing and see which works.
[20:11:26] messerting: sphery: ah, that makes sense. will try :)
[20:13:47] gbee: messerting: which version are you running?
[20:14:03] messerting: gbee: trunk from yesterday
[20:14:16] gbee: oh trunk I guess ... well svn up anyway, some scanning fixes just went in which might help
[20:14:18] messerting: r21502
[20:14:42] messerting: I actually had the very same problem in 0.21-fixes, so that's why I went to trunk
[20:14:57] gbee: odd
[20:15:42] ** sphery tries to resist making a joke about 21502 being an even number, not odd **
[20:15:58] gbee: should have tried harder ;)
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[20:16:16] sphery: yeah, I'm weak willed
[20:16:27] messerting: hehe
[20:17:20] wagnerrp: i wonder just how the bindings would stand up to making a frontend
[20:17:45] messerting: it might be my problem is related to conflicting channels
[20:17:54] XLV: http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=637 i think those arent good news
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[20:18:20] wagnerrp: theres probably enough in the python ones that you wouldnt need to write any custom code to access myth
[20:18:20] messerting: every time I do a fresh scan, I'm told that there are conflicting channels, and I try to give unique channums for them (not really knowing what I'm doing)
[20:18:28] sphery: wagnerrp: at this point, I'd recommend to anyone trying that they use the Python bindigns since someone did some great work and put them way ahead of Perl.
[20:18:52] ** iamlindoro wonders if he has mentioned he'd like to see UI bindings for python/perl today **
[20:18:56] gbee: known bug in the new scanner, you could try the Ignore all option
[20:19:21] sphery: messerting: some of that is being fixed as we speak... probably better results if you svn up.
[20:19:21] iamlindoro: and I mean have I mentioned today, not I want them done today :)
[20:19:36] sphery: messerting: though they may not have finished that specifically
[20:19:42] messerting: sphery: yep, doing that now
[20:19:45] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: as in... for making plugins?
[20:19:48] messerting: ok, I hope for the best
[20:19:50] iamlindoro: as in yes
[20:20:27] sphery: do we really need to make it easier to create $random plugin?
[20:20:31] iamlindoro: yes
[20:20:35] iamlindoro: we do
[20:21:23] sphery: And here I though we were finally making progress on making MythVideo work like it should--as part of the app rather than the plugin that was "good enough" to kill all motivation to do it right.  :)
[20:21:34] iamlindoro: other softwares are successful for three reasons: Excellent metadata handling, UI flash, and low barrier of entry to expand them
[20:21:39] wagnerrp: i have no idea how you would even go about doing that....
[20:21:49] wagnerrp: write a plugin with an embedded perl/python interpreter?
[20:21:50] iamlindoro: I'm trying to work on the former, the second is well underway, the third is needed
[20:22:18] juski: wagnerrp: I don't think making anything in $language would necessarily make it easier. only if folks already know $language
[20:22:44] juski: I tried to get into python. It makes c++ look like plain English to my eyes
[20:22:47] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: Actually not a half bad idea
[20:22:48] juski: which is saying something
[20:23:20] iamlindoro: sphery: What does that mean?
[20:23:30] wagnerrp: and then you just have the psuedo-plugin register a plugin for each compatible script in the directory
[20:23:52] juski: wasn't that more or less what mythpython set out to do?
[20:24:27] gbee: there is a strange impression out there that a language requiring 'compilation' is somehow more difficult
[20:24:52] wagnerrp: possibly, i remember some rumbling about mythpython a year or two ago, but i dont recall anything actually coming of it
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[20:25:29] iamlindoro: gbee: I don't think that's the implication, merely that if we can offer the ability to register a plugin in many languages, we vastly increase the number of potential plugin authors
[20:25:30] gbee: if anyone writes a plugin which is actually worthwhile in perl/python, then I'd probably turn it into C++ to use it
[20:25:38] messerting: when I upgrade trunk, I guess I have to wipe my db, (right?), but do I also have to wipe out ~/.mythtv of the mythtv user?
[20:26:14] gbee: iamlindoro: don't disagree, but I do think many python/perl coders are under than illusion
[20:26:37] wagnerrp: im guessing it would be for simple little things, like making MythAppleTrailers a proper plugin, rather than some script that generates a xml for the UI code to read
[20:26:49] iamlindoro: yeah, that's what I've got in mind
[20:26:52] juski: wagnerrp: it could never be
[20:27:04] juski: for one thing it violates Apple's T&Cs
[20:27:04] sphery: just that MV has always been so distinct from other (recorded) video. What we had was good enough for most, so no one was really motivated to work on improving it--making it so MV and MythTV use the same programinfo, and the same "screen" (where layout/display/sorting/... may be wildly different but choosing may be as easy as selecting a different "category" in the same place you have all your recordings). We're finally doing ...
[20:27:06] iamlindoro: in the way the XBMC/Boxee/what have you add "the Daily Show Plugin"
[20:27:10] sphery: ... that. But, in general, I think plugins encourage short cut/"easy way out" rather than making better integrated functionality.
[20:27:12] wagnerrp: that and bittorrent plugins
[20:27:44] iamlindoro: little not-really-plugins that offer a small amount of content/information but improve the user experience
[20:28:09] juski: I should get off my ass one day & write that 'general info display shiznit' thingy
[20:28:13] gbee: from my perspective, the biggest thing holding mythtv back right now is the difficulty/mess of setup and configuration
[20:28:17] sphery: I still think MythAppleTrailers is a blatant violation of the site's ToS
[20:28:26] juski: sphery: no thinking about it. it IS
[20:28:34] AndyCap: gbee: heh, yet mediaportal seems to do ok. :)
[20:28:41] juski: it's also a gross violation of menu xml files
[20:28:47] sphery: juski: ah, yeah, you said that before me :)
[20:29:02] sphery: note to self... finish reading scrollback before talking
[20:29:02] iamlindoro: sphery: Imagine a "Daily Show Plugin" that conforms to Terms of Service by using the webbrowserwidget for display, but offers a nicely integrated method of browsing the content... That is exactly the kind of thing I'd like to see possible w/ python or perl bindings
[20:29:16] juski: I dont think the entry bar to developing is too high
[20:29:54] iamlindoro: ie it parses the site to grab titles of sketches, descriptions, and lengths, and the user can browse a nice MythUI'd catalog of the clips, but display is in a non-ToS violating web widget
[20:29:56] sphery: iamlindoro: and then a Hulu plugin and a CBS TV plugin and a YouTube plugin and a ...
[20:30:04] iamlindoro: sphery: Actually, YES
[20:30:04] wagnerrp: juski: its more the perception of the bar
[20:30:16] juski: wagnerrp: who really cares though?
[20:30:21] iamlindoro: sphery: I would have no problem at all with distinct widgets for those things-- people *love* that stuff
[20:30:32] sphery: yeah, I'm not a fan of "a plugin for everything and everything's a plugin"
[20:30:42] juski: sphery: like VDR? lol
[20:30:43] gbee: I'd love for someone to take an interest in smoothing out the creases in setup, adding sane defaults, locale based auto-config, hardware detection auto-config, elimination or hiding of little used settings
[20:30:50] sphery: juski: yeah, or Freevo
[20:31:01] iamlindoro: gbee: I have great interest in that
[20:31:01] juski: the whole damn thing is a plugin
[20:31:11] iamlindoro: gbee: And when the work starts in that direction I am happy to lend what hand I can
[20:31:38] juski: gbee: the problem I can see there is mostly political. people don't like things being renamed or moved around
[20:31:38] iamlindoro: specifically, I'd like a scripted, plain-english wizard style configuration in mythtv-setup
[20:31:39] gbee: even better organisation and accessibility to the necessary settings – having to go through several menus to configure a plugin for example is a pain
[20:31:53] wagnerrp: gbee: does linuxtv have some easily accessible DeviceID table somewhere?
[20:31:55] gbee: and explains why many people just don't find the settings in the first place
[20:31:59] ** sphery thinks he actually has a reasonable way of allowing the backup script to operate in taint mode **
[20:32:15] sphery: gbee: search-for-setting :)
[20:32:18] juski: wagnerrp: we could start collecting them ourselves
[20:32:19] iamlindoro: gbee: as soon as the settings screens get MythUI'd the setup portion of the menu structure should disappear IMO
[20:32:33] iamlindoro: gbee: In a plugin/screen/etc, INFO->Setup->Whatever setup screen
[20:32:35] gbee: juski: I really don't think politics are going to stand in the way of anything this time
[20:32:47] wagnerrp: juski: well if nothing else you could just search through their codebase
[20:32:49] juski: gbee: that'll be cool :)
[20:33:07] iamlindoro: ie in MythVideo: INFO-> MythVideo Settings-> Player Settings
[20:33:12] gbee: iamlindoro: and auto-entry into settings the first time you access a plugin
[20:33:16] iamlindoro: yep
[20:33:25] sphery: iamlindoro: sounds great--as long as you could go from "context-specific" setting to full settings from anywhere
[20:33:34] juski: everybody's seen folks get burned making perfectly sensible/constructive suggestions to improve things is all
[20:33:45] iamlindoro: sphery: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I disagree I think
[20:34:06] iamlindoro: If we still leave all the setup cruft concatenated somewhere, we are still just as broken as ever
[20:34:12] juski: and while they're at it, perhaps some kind of multi-user-ness ?
[20:34:35] gbee: juski: well suggestions != patches and yes, there may be differing ideas on implementation, but we'll do our best to keep things open and friendly
[20:35:03] iamlindoro: MythWeather has all the setup screens ported IIRC, it would make a good test-bed for what I'm talking about
[20:35:05] iamlindoro: or MythNews
[20:35:18] gbee: juski: well lets not tag on features which might sink this before it's even started :)
[20:35:29] juski: gbee: heh fair nuff ;)
[20:35:34] iamlindoro: In fact, pretty sure mythnews already offers the setup screens from within the plugin, just not as consistent as I would like
[20:35:45] juski: mythgallery certainly does
[20:35:48] iamlindoro: and hasn't removed the menu theme ones, which IMO really needs to happen
[20:35:57] iamlindoro: Start a-rippin
[20:36:53] iamlindoro: Would be okay with *one* Menu option (Advanced Settings) that looks like the Edit Keys screen
[20:37:07] iamlindoro: change the context (plugin) and see the possible setup screens on the right
[20:37:20] sphery: iamlindoro: just saying that it would be really annoying if setting up a new frontend meant a) being asked about appearance settings on startup, then finishing that and exiting, then b) starting LiveTV to set TV settings, then finishing/exiting, then c) going to Watch Recordings to set settings for what to display/how to sort/..., then d) going to Recording Rules to set setting for default recording rule creations, then...
[20:37:24] iamlindoro: but it should be hidden away, and the average user should be able to set everything he needs to in-context
[20:37:58] iamlindoro: sphery: The average user (IMO) wants exactly that
[20:38:09] gbee: sphery: we're mostly talking about plugins here, not individual screens in the frontend
[20:38:23] iamlindoro: He wants to set up what he wants in its context, and not have to figure out what menu options refer to those screens
[20:38:27] juski: don't, whatever we do, do what Elisa have done. bugger all settings, everything in an 'advanced' xml file
[20:38:29] iamlindoro: and only have to set up as much as he uses
[20:38:44] gbee: i.e. On first run of mythvideo it will prompt for the basic information needed to run that plugin – a path to the videos etc
[20:38:52] juski: and what about everybody who *has* a clue?
[20:38:58] sphery: iamlindoro: that's great to be /able/ to do that, but being able to also go through all settings at once is nice to prevent my forgetting to enter some section of the app to set it up
[20:39:33] iamlindoro: like I said, One screen exactly like Edit Keys, hidden far far away
[20:39:39] iamlindoro: If you *want* to set up all at once
[20:39:59] sphery: that would work
[20:40:01] juski: there are still too many things outside of mythtv's control – like tuner cards, lirc config etc. take them into account when wizardising stuff
[20:40:01] iamlindoro: but I think the average user would choose the "first-entry" or "in-context" way 9 times out of 10
[20:40:17] iamlindoro: and here I am thinking specifically of a brand new user
[20:40:46] juski: hmm. I think I preferred the old mythtv that didn't give a damn about users :P
[20:40:50] XLV: http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=637 really any comments on this? for USAers sounds like bad news, and soon ( for linux PVR a gravestone )
[20:40:52] gbee: juski: yeah, lets just ignore what we can't control because there is plenty than we can
[20:40:53] sphery: If I knew anything about translations, I'd try to help the guy in #mythtv...
[20:41:27] sphery: one day I should learn how Qt wants it all done
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[20:41:36] stoffel: sphery: thanks but i think i just solved it. this stupid string is used at two locations ;)
[20:41:42] juski: gbee: lirc needs a damn good kick up the arse, as does device naming/ordering in linux IMHO
[20:42:20] sphery: stoffel: ah, glad you got it
[20:42:26] juski: wonder how mediaportal gets around windows moving devices around like no tomorrow
[20:42:48] sphery: and here I specifically said, "the guy," so I didn't draw you away from your work/to this channel :)
[20:44:16] iamlindoro: juski: That's probably all built into the windows BDA interface
[20:44:30] iamlindoro: juski: Addressed by some registry key or some nonsense
[20:45:03] iamlindoro: HKLM/TUNER_LOCATION_FOR_THURSDAY
[20:45:19] juski: worth pondering what linux could hook into to do similar ;-)
[20:45:30] laga: juski: udev.
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[20:46:08] juski: laga: does mythbuntu do anything fancy to get around devices changing order then?
[20:46:26] gbee: it's funny, we've three V4L devs in here right now and we still can't get unique and static IDs for a device into the DVB driver API? We should be petitioning these guys to come up with a workable solution
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[20:46:46] laga: juski: no. we do have a patch, but for some reason it's borked. i dunno why
[20:46:46] gbee: udev rules aren't a solution, they are a nightmare
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[20:47:05] juski: gbee: if they came ready configured, nobody need worry :)
[20:47:20] gbee: we need something that is invisible to the user, that doesn't require several hours of reading up on udev and additional configuration
[20:47:22] laga: gbee: udev can – AFAIK – generate unique per-device nodes
[20:47:30] juski: *making* new udev rules is off the radar to new users
[20:47:55] sphery: I actually like the end result of udev rules--abstracting the physical device name into a logical identifier--though I fully agree that no user should /ever/ be asked to touch udev rules.
[20:47:56] wagnerrp: XLV: yes its known, and yes it is likely very bad juju
[20:48:14] wagnerrp: of course for us users who already only get the local broadcast channels over QAM, it wont make any difference
[20:48:47] gbee: even I don't understand writing udev rules yet, could be that I've just not found a definitive guide to the process, but it's over complicated and a step in the wrong direction IMHO
[20:49:05] iamlindoro: I strongly agree
[20:49:15] wagnerrp: although do the standard cable boxes even support that 'privacy mode' encryption?
[20:49:25] sphery: would be ideal if rules were done automatically for users by pretty GUI config tools provided by distros
[20:49:36] iamlindoro: It would be worth interfacing w/ the v4l guys to see what attributes can be considered unique, then enumerate all the DVB/V4L devices at backend startup and update the dev nodes
[20:49:55] sphery: (or even generically provided ones) but no one wanted to invest the effort for fear of $next_big_thing coming along before they finished
[20:50:00] gbee: we could add a udev rule generator into mythtv-setup, but then you need to be root to write udev configs so that's out of the question, plus it requires a reboot for the rules to take effect which is another no-no
[20:50:13] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: someone said all DVB cards have a 'MAC' address
[20:50:17] AndyCap: or you could use the sysfs data yourself.
[20:50:20] wagnerrp: but as for V4L, i dont know
[20:50:20] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: I did :)
[20:50:21] janneg: for DVB devices we could get the frontend name
[20:50:23] AndyCap: I think gizmod does something like that.
[20:50:43] laga: wagnerrp: i think some of my DVB cards return ff:ff:ff:ff as the mac adress ;)
[20:50:46] janneg: newer DVB cards have a zero MAC, can't use that
[20:50:55] AndyCap: but unless the device in question has a serial of some sort you ultimately end up with pci slot location
[20:51:01] gbee: janneg: how would that work when you've got a two cards with the same frontend?
[20:51:08] iamlindoro: mkrufky: Is there anything in the v4l/v4l-dvb API that we could query off the card to identify it uniquely?
[20:51:17] AndyCap: and someone in mentioned that PCIe screws that up
[20:51:24] wagnerrp: AndyCap: which can change on reboot if anything changes, not just the card itself
[20:51:41] mkrufky: iamlindoro: i dont have time to read the backlog right now ...can you tell me specifically what u want to know?
[20:51:42] janneg: gbee: doesn't matter in simple cases
[20:51:57] nbetham: Hello, I a have problem with my hauppauge hvr 1800 anybody knowledgable about this card
[20:52:02] laga: gbee: same frontend: hopefully same video source ;)
[20:52:07] iamlindoro: mkrufky: Talking about being able to reconnect to a given tuner/capture device on backend startup regardless of its dev node and without using udev
[20:52:25] mkrufky: omg, seriously?
[20:52:28] iamlindoro: mkrufky: So the question is there some uniquely per-card identifiable attribute we can interface with to always map to the right node
[20:52:38] mkrufky: we merged janneg's patch for the adapter id's ... let the user use that
[20:52:42] mkrufky: it rocks
[20:52:48] gbee: laga: I have a DVB-T and DVB-S card with the same frontend hardware :) Though whether they report the same name ...
[20:52:51] mkrufky: i know that doesnt answer the question ......
[20:52:58] iamlindoro: erm... would be better if they didn't have to change module options
[20:53:02] mkrufky: for digital stuff, the cards have a mac address
[20:53:09] mkrufky: i think you can get it thru sysfs, not sure. ....
[20:53:21] iamlindoro: mkrufky: Which apparently can/is sometimes all zero
[20:53:22] wagnerrp: mkrufky: janneg just said no
[20:53:23] gbee: mkrufky: it doesn't work in the above example, same driver for DVB-S, DVB-T, DVB-C cards connected to different sources
[20:53:34] gbee: the adapter_nr stuff that is
[20:53:39] mkrufky: ah, gotcha
[20:53:58] mkrufky: so u want mythtv to support surprise removal and hot plugging?
[20:54:06] gbee: I'm using it right now and my DVB-T and DVB-S cards still swap every time I reboot
[20:54:22] wagnerrp: mkrufky: more that it should be stable through a reboot
[20:54:23] gbee: mkrufky: no, just not have devices swap every reboot
[20:55:01] mkrufky: there should be a way to do that with udev, but i dont know offhand ...... i think you can tell udev to consider the subsystem ids
[20:55:23] wagnerrp: say you have two PVR-150s cards plugged into STBs, you currently have no way of knowing that the right card is plugged into the right STB
[20:55:28] wagnerrp: aside from just testing it
[20:55:50] AndyCap: barring any serialnumbers or something you end up with. DEVPATH=/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:02:0e.0/dvb/dvb0.frontend0
[20:57:14] AndyCap: wagnerrp: btw, in what cases would the pci slot numbers change? unless you actually move the cards around?
[20:57:38] gbee: they move device nodes all the time, both my backends do it, it's a real pain because it means reconfiguring the cards, Diseqc, input connections every reboot – power cut while you are away? All your scheduled recordings will fail when the box comes back up
[20:57:44] wagnerrp: AndyCap: i have removed a sound card, and my board renumbered the remaining PCI devices
[20:58:21] AndyCap: just lovely
[20:58:22] iamlindoro: There is probably a system of elimination method of doing this
[20:58:26] sphery: wagnerrp: and I think BIOS settings can change that, too
[20:58:46] iamlindoro: get all the udev information for a card, plus its device path, and call that the "fingerprint"
[20:58:57] sphery: i.e. the PnP settings and the "table of hardware whose name I don't remember"...
[20:59:02] iamlindoro: 100% match, it its correct... if one piece is missing, try for the other
[20:59:05] iamlindoro: and make your best guess
[20:59:35] gbee: iamlindoro: except we can't use udev system calls, I'd have to look into libudev which might give us what we need
[20:59:49] iamlindoro: yeah
[20:59:54] juski: what I don't get about the enumeration process is why it swaps stuff around so often
[21:00:48] juski: I mean yeah, some things sometimes wake up more quickly than others or whatever.. but it's often 50–50 between 2 devices
[21:00:58] gbee: juski: best I can tell it's a kernel flaw, it can't run through devices in a standard order
[21:01:08] wagnerrp: the other issue... would the backend need to be root for any of this stuff
[21:01:30] ** AndyCap is more inclined to blaming bios writers. **
[21:01:38] juski: stupid PC architecture :)
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[21:01:43] sphery: but it's init'ing them asynchonously, so it comes down to how long they take/when the thread gets time, ...
[21:02:02] sphery: ^^^ my simplistic understanding, at least
[21:02:03] AndyCap: wagnerrp: for querying udev probably not
[21:02:04] gbee: AndyCap: bios/kernel, it's all pretty much out of our control
[21:02:10] juski: we're still more or less stuck with 30 year old legacy stuff innit
[21:02:34] juski: I for one welcome our new, non-legacy compatible overlords :)
[21:02:36] sphery: juski: but I can still run my 16-bit DOS word processor
[21:02:42] AndyCap: juski: i.e. mac? :)
[21:02:49] laga: sphery: on a nehalem?
[21:03:01] gbee: which is why I'd have liked driver writers to acknowledge the issue, we can't even depend on udev since it's already being replaced :/
[21:03:15] AndyCap: gbee: uh, since when?
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[21:03:23] laga: udev is not being replaced
[21:03:26] laga: hal is being replaed
[21:03:37] gbee: oh that's right, ok, my bad
[21:04:26] sphery: /udev is not being replaced/a , yet
[21:04:55] sphery: Yeah, that's right, I sed it.
[21:05:15] nbetham: anyone have an idea why my hvr 1800 plays back in slow motion in myth but not any where else
[21:05:16] laga: hah!
[21:05:49] juski: iamlindoro: you watched any other of those kinetic vids? :-O
[21:05:50] sphery: nbetham: digital capture?
[21:05:53] iamlindoro: nbetham: The HVR-1800 has a driver bug that prevents it being used in Myth right now anyway
[21:05:58] nbetham: Analog
[21:05:59] iamlindoro: (for analog, anyway)
[21:06:03] sphery: ^^^
[21:06:05] iamlindoro: give up for now
[21:06:13] sphery: All your analog are belong to us!
[21:06:17] iamlindoro: juski: No, I haven't
[21:06:54] juski: looks a bit funky like clutter, only not shite
[21:07:10] iamlindoro: juski: Heh, cool... maybe we can insist on Qt 4.6 for .23 ;)
[21:07:40] sphery: all we have to do is make it take so long for the release that even CentOS is shipping 4.6
[21:07:53] nbetham: is it an issue in the v4l driver or ivtv
[21:08:13] nbetham: just curious
[21:08:30] iamlindoro: nbetham: HVR-1800 isn't an ivtv driver
[21:08:54] iamlindoro: ivtv is one of many v4l drivers, but is not the driver for your board
[21:09:00] nbetham: mpeg 2 encoder i though used ivtv
[21:09:11] iamlindoro: That's a setting in myth, not the type of card you are using
[21:09:13] Dagmar: No. no. no.
[21:09:34] nbetham: wait i'm lost
[21:09:39] iamlindoro: nbetham: confusingly, it is not an ivtv card, but you did choose the correct myth options
[21:09:51] iamlindoro: nbetham: The card's driver is broken... wait until it is fixed
[21:10:04] iamlindoro: when it is fixed, the settings you chose in myth will be correct
[21:10:12] iamlindoro: and the card should work fine
[21:10:15] Dagmar: Until then you're screwed so there's no sense worrying abou tit
[21:11:05] wagnerrp: kinetic?
[21:11:08] nbetham: ok one more question what is the difference between /dev/video0 and /dev/video1 i know one v1 is the encoder but what is v0
[21:11:16] sphery: nbetham: but, TTBOMK, you can enjoy the digital side (and yummy, pretty digital TV) with the card, today!
[21:11:48] iamlindoro: nbetham: The raw framegrabber
[21:11:54] iamlindoro: which is yucky and should be avoided like herpes
[21:12:03] nbetham: bright house (my cable provider) encrypts their streams
[21:12:19] iamlindoro: They can't encrypt locals, legally
[21:12:19] wagnerrp: they dont encrypt the local channels
[21:12:28] AndyCap: iamlindoro: but tv said I could have a perfectly normal active life with herpes.
[21:12:30] iamlindoro: so you should ahve at least NBC/CBS/ABC/Fox/CW/etc.
[21:12:31] sphery: nbetham: :( too bad
[21:12:51] sphery: I live in a Brighthouse area, too, but mine is not a bright house
[21:12:56] iamlindoro: AndyCap: And you can! Just make sure to tell all your partners about your framegrabber
[21:13:00] sphery: for exactly that reason
[21:13:35] nbetham: in my area its bright house or nothing
[21:13:36] wagnerrp: AndyCap: as long as your 'herpes' happens to be of the 'cold sore' variety
[21:13:58] AndyCap: wagnerrp: no, no valtrex said genital herpes. :P
[21:14:08] AndyCap: the things you miss out on with commercial flagging.
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[21:15:19] wagnerrp: does WMC support qam tuners?
[21:15:40] wagnerrp: i thought there was some issue with that
[21:15:41] nbetham: where should i ask around (if any where) to find an eta on the driver fix
[21:15:56] wagnerrp: or was it just that you needed to have an analog tuner installed as well
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[21:16:13] AndyCap: wagnerrp: not sure, Windows 7 at least pretended to understand dvb-c. but I didn't get any dvb channels so dunno
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[21:16:26] iamlindoro: nbetham: You shouldn't ask, the only people who can fix it are already working on it-- you can follow the commit log at linuxtv.org if you want to see what fixes go in to the tree
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[21:17:14] ** iamlindoro wonders whether the ClearQAM decision might have a positive Streisand effect **
[21:17:17] wagnerrp: AndyCap: the anandtech article about the privacy mode was talking about Microsoft might start to fight back, to maintain the HTPC/WMC market
[21:17:27] iamlindoro: ie, whether this will finally be the thing that makes people do naughty things to digicipher II
[21:17:42] nbetham: okay, thanks for the info now i know to stop tring to get it to work
[21:18:23] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: honestly, someone could probably just write an app that would let you record the 'privacy mode' recordings, and then decrypt it over the course of a couple hours on their video card
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[21:48:12] mkrufky: heh, HEROES is slated for the fall but not the spring
[21:48:39] iamlindoro: And Chuck for the spring but not the fall
[21:48:55] juski: iamlindoro: can you do me a favour please? can you see if glxinfo reports anything convolution related on your nvidia loaded box?
[21:49:20] juski: e.g. GLX_ARB_convolution or something like that
[21:49:50] iamlindoro: juski: need to get home for that, no X forwarding here :(
[21:50:14] juski: anybody else with nvidia handy?
[21:50:24] juski: not seeing anything on my intel machine :-\
[21:50:45] sphery: mkrufky: does that mean they're not doing 2 "seasons" of Heroes this year? Will it still be a short season?
[21:51:00] mkrufky: volumes, sphery
[21:51:09] sphery: er, yeah, volumes
[21:51:10] mkrufky: and probably correct
[21:51:24] mkrufky: maybe it will be the last
[21:51:34] mkrufky: it should have ended already, IMO
[21:52:08] sphery: guess I'm not as concerned about it, now, after 5(?) let downs, but I just hope they come up with some good TV to replace all this stuff getting cancelled/shortened
[21:52:18] ** iamlindoro wonders how the irish girl is doing trapped in the alternate dystopian future **
[21:52:27] iamlindoro: wheeeeee, hanging plot threads!
[21:52:31] sid3windr: seasons and volumes don't overlap/match in heroes, do they
[21:52:34] mkrufky: well, i will continue to watch heroes, and i wasnt let down (really) until this last volume
[21:52:36] Dagmar: WTF show is that?
[21:52:36] iamlindoro: wait, that presuppose an actual PLOT
[21:52:41] iamlindoro: presupposes
[21:52:45] Dagmar: Irish girl what?
[21:52:49] mkrufky: irish girl doesnt matter anymore
[21:52:52] mkrufky: they say OOPS
[21:52:56] Dagmar: Oh Heroes
[21:52:57] sphery: iamlindoro: I liked her
[21:53:03] mkrufky: its the writers strike ... cut them some slack
[21:53:03] sphery: I was upset when they left her
[21:53:09] mkrufky: me too, but its over now
[21:53:15] iamlindoro: mkrufky: What's the excuse for the writing of the other seasons?  ;)
[21:53:23] mkrufky: lol
[21:53:30] iamlindoro: AFAICT they've been on strike since s01e01
[21:53:31] Dagmar: She wasn't willing to do a**l, so she had to go
[21:53:35] ** wagnerrp wonders what happened with the senator's other (and likely superpowered) children **
[21:53:36] RyeBrye: Yeah, last season of heroes was like "ummm.... wtf?"
[21:53:51] RyeBrye: I think MythTV started flagging the show and leaving only the commercials just to have mercy on me
[21:53:52] mkrufky: the last EPISODE was a true disappointment
[21:54:11] mkrufky: noah nor parkmann would never agree to that
[21:54:11] sid3windr: lol RyeBrye
[21:54:15] iamlindoro: That's because the show is more of a commercial than the commercials
[21:54:19] iamlindoro: NISSAN VERSA!
[21:54:24] RyeBrye: :)
[21:54:25] Dagmar: SPRINT FONEZ!@#!
[21:54:26] RyeBrye: true
[21:54:30] iamlindoro: "You're going to give me the NISSAN ROGUE????"
[21:54:32] mkrufky: fox should be ok this year tho
[21:54:33] sphery: mkrufky: I felt that all the volumes were pretty good, but then the end of the volume was a complete let down. Seems they don't know how to close out a show properly (instead of a "oh, time to end the season? 'The End'")
[21:54:34] wagnerrp: and that hideously ugly Cube thing
[21:54:46] wagnerrp: i mean thats even worse than the Scion extremeBox
[21:54:47] mkrufky: i thought the episode I AM SYLAR rocked
[21:54:57] mkrufky: i think that was 2nd to last or third to last
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[21:55:01] Dagmar: wagnerrp: Someday, the Japanese higher-ups at Nissan will request someone take a sword over that one
[21:55:22] wagnerrp: and then they went and took a line right the KoToR story line
[21:55:44] Dagmar: "He is your father, Luke"
[21:55:45] mindoms: Juski: glxinfo | grep -i conv came up with nothing
[21:56:04] wagnerrp: next season, Sylar will discover who he is, and defeat the *other* evil Sith lord
[21:56:27] _ben: damn, i hate my job sometimes
[21:56:30] juski: mindoms: on nvidia? hrm I'll give it a bash anyway
[21:56:59] RyeBrye: Making Peter Petrelli lose his powers and then get them back as a kind of human Kirby was pretty lame
[21:56:59] wagnerrp: there will also be something about an over-talkative old man, and a scantily clad redhead who likes to meditate
[21:57:07] sphery: wagnerrp: I loved how the Cube broke down when "touch and go" baby cried. Then someone else took the baby and drove off with it--still crying--in a different car.
[21:57:09] RyeBrye: although even Kirby can do stuff when he hasn't sucked up someone else's power
[21:57:57] Dagmar: I'm for scantily-clad redheads
[21:58:00] mindoms: juski: nVidia Corporation NV40 [GeForce 6800] ; nvidia driver
[21:58:03] juski: mindoms: thanks anyway :)
[21:58:06] Dagmar: Anything that involves that I'm up for
[21:58:16] RyeBrye: Wait? Scantily clad redheads? where?
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[21:59:08] wagnerrp: RyeBrye: the last episode of Heroes, right out of KoToR
[21:59:18] wagnerrp: i was describing how next season is going to pan out as a result
[21:59:36] RyeBrye: ah, gotcah
[22:00:20] RyeBrye: Hayden Paniettere was more interesting until she started speaking in public and basically reveal that she's a complete idiot.
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[22:02:03] juski: jees why do so many gl coders have to bog everything down in *maths* ffs?
[22:02:42] Dagmar: Because in teh computer landz, realitees are made of maths
[22:03:06] wagnerrp: RyeBrye: i figured that out when i heard she starred in one of those many 'Bring It On' remakes
[22:03:14] juski: I just wanna cut/paste a routine to use :)
[22:03:30] juski: I do *not* want to learn the mathematics to do it
[22:04:11] mkrufky: i guess we dont talk about true blood in here because nobody has hbo?
[22:04:17] nbetham (nbetham!n=nbetham@65.29.114.149) has joined #mythtv-users
[22:04:17] Dagmar: Well, if you're doing 2D stuff you can fake it
[22:04:27] Dagmar: If you want 3d to not look like ass tho, you have to know a bit of trig
[22:04:53] Dagmar: mkrufky: I would have thought the lack of a meaningful plot would override that
[22:05:01] mkrufky: heh, okay then
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[22:05:31] Dagmar: Emo girl-spaz meets "soulful" (meaning unshaven) vampire.
[22:05:34] juski: Dagmar: just a simple blur. I already know I can draw an image several times of varying alpha in slighty differing locations
[22:05:37] Dagmar: Like we've not seen that before.
[22:05:58] Dagmar: Just because it's got graphic acts of sexual depravity in every episode doesn't really change much.
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[22:06:35] Dagmar: If it was herpes and not vampirism, you'd be a lot less interested
[22:06:56] mkrufky: hmm
[22:06:58] nbetham: Back again, since my hvr 1800 can't tune analog in myth anyone have a suggestion for a good pcie 1x tuner card that can tune analog in myth
[22:07:06] mkrufky: im actually more interested in the maenad plotline
[22:07:18] Dagmar: Right so... Enough of this
[22:07:26] mkrufky: nbetham: i'm working on that fix... sorry for delays
[22:07:27] wagnerrp: nbetham: doesnt exist
[22:07:37] Dagmar: I may be about to get fired, but I am damn sick and tired of the security on call people ignoring their pagers.
[22:07:48] Dagmar: Now launching FIVE HUNDRED pages
[22:07:50] nbetham: oh okay no rush
[22:07:54] mkrufky: hvr1800 is the card to use for PCI-E right now ... its a driver bug, and the fix is a work in progress
[22:08:05] wagnerrp: no one in here will (should) recommend anything but an mpeg encoder for analog
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[22:08:23] mkrufky: if you want a comparable usb card that works perfectly, HVR-1950 has identical featureset, but you can only do one at a time (analog / digital)
[22:08:24] wagnerrp: so so that limits you to the 1800 and 2250 for pcie, neither of which currently work for analog
[22:08:39] mkrufky: and HVR1600 is identical to HVR1800 but its PCI instead of PCIE, and it does NOT have that bug
[22:08:48] mkrufky: 1800 *does* work for analog
[22:08:50] mkrufky: just not in myth
[22:08:55] wagnerrp: (in mythtv)
[22:08:56] wagnerrp: yeah
[22:08:59] mkrufky: mythtv can workaround the bug easily if they want to
[22:09:00] nbetham: well all i intend to use is the analog
[22:09:03] mkrufky: i have to go
[22:09:09] mkrufky: have a good one
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[22:09:27] wagnerrp: and you have no PCI slots?
[22:09:48] nbetham: wait its a problem in myth not the driver
[22:09:52] nbetham: no pci
[22:10:11] wagnerrp: no, its a problem with the driver, making it not function properly with myth
[22:10:22] nbetham: oh okay
[22:10:24] wagnerrp: something to do with it's behavior when it changes channels
[22:10:49] wagnerrp: someone could alter the mpeg encoder input so it handles it
[22:10:50] nbetham: is that what causes it to play in slow motion
[22:11:01] wagnerrp: or write a new one designed specifically for that card
[22:11:10] wagnerrp: but no one on the myth side wants to do that it seems
[22:11:21] wagnerrp: slow motion video is likely something completely different
[22:11:57] nbetham: i can tune every thing fine and change channels but it plays in slow motion and the audio is very deep
[22:11:58] wagnerrp: this is slow playback only in mythtv?
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[22:12:07] nbetham: yeah
[22:12:11] wagnerrp: is it exactly half speed?
[22:12:44] wagnerrp: if it is playing at exactly half speed, you probably chose one of the 2x deinterlacers
[22:12:52] wagnerrp: on a system that cannot output video at 2x speed
[22:12:59] nbetham: i don't know how much slower it is
[22:14:01] nbetham: i tried running the frontend in verbose mode and it said something about the video being 3 to 4 frames ahead of the audio and trying to compensate for it
[22:15:18] wagnerrp: the 1800 cannot cause slow playback, unless the encoder chip is producing a damage feed
[22:15:22] RyeBrye: wagnerrp: if it is playing at exactly half speed, you probably chose one of the 2x deinterlacers <-- will it play those back now even if it thinks it can't? Before it would always complain and fallback to another deinterlacer even though my screen could handle it – it's just that the nvidia-reported refresh rate was a couple Hz too low
[22:15:49] wagnerrp: and almost any computer you might want to use for mythtv should play content recorded off that card with no performance problems
[22:16:05] wagnerrp: so its almost certainly some kind of setup issue
[22:16:59] wagnerrp: RyeBrye: last time i tried using one of the 2x deints, it played at exactly half speed
[22:17:00] nbetham: in which part is that the frontend or backend
[22:17:05] wagnerrp: frontend
[22:17:21] wagnerrp: either in the frontend playback settings, or maybe an issue with out video driver
[22:17:29] nbetham: setings>tv>playback?
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[22:17:55] Dagmar: Heheh
[22:17:58] Dagmar: How about that.
[22:18:12] Dagmar: When a pager goes off for ten minutes straight, they'll call us back
[22:18:19] sid3windr: http://www.demoscene.tv/prod.php?id_prod=13297
[22:18:28] sid3windr: can someone code that as visualizer for mythmusic? ;)
[22:18:36] nbetham: is it the third step "Playback Profiles"
[22:18:56] juski: sid3windr: give me 10 years or so
[22:19:07] Dagmar: "Oh? When will it stop going off? Hahaha... That's funny." *clik*
[22:19:25] kormoc: sid3windr, I'll do it for $120,000
[22:19:41] sid3windr: with the correct locale settings, I'll take you up on that
[22:19:49] sid3windr: 120 us dollars. :P
[22:20:36] ** kormoc thinks sid3windr just insulted his value **
[22:21:18] sid3windr: no, no, according to Windows over here we use , as decimal separator... ;)
[22:21:34] sid3windr: it would be awesome though.
[22:21:43] sid3windr: but not very good for non-dance music
[22:21:46] sid3windr: I presume :P
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[22:25:59] juski: ahh the glxinfo for convolution filtering is GL_ARB_imaging
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[22:26:24] iamlindoro: juski, Have that one
[22:26:36] gbee: thinking of taking a punt on a Digistar DVB-S, but the v4l wiki suggests it has problems with live playback?? on 64bit ...
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[22:27:16] nbetham: wagnerrp: i tried messing with a few of the deinterlacing methods in the tv playback section and nothing changed (taking out the 2x deinterlacers)
[22:27:35] juski: iamlindoro: good, so do I. bet GF4 doesn't though
[22:27:54] iamlindoro: juski, GF4 users have bigger issues to worry about :)
[22:27:56] juski: any ATI folks want to see if they have GL_ARB_imaging please?
[22:28:19] juski: actually sack that for now. I have to make this concept work first
[22:30:54] gbee: Dual tuner, Pass-through or what? ... http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Geniatech_DVB-S_Digistar
[22:31:18] juski: had someone ask about passthru today
[22:31:24] gbee: juski: heh, I would have, but I replaced my ATi board today
[22:33:03] gbee: pass through makes no sense for DVB-S, and nothing I've read makes reference to that card being dual tuner, so why two inputs?
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[22:35:44] ** dustybin smells signs of .22 **
[22:36:42] juski: ahh this is more like it, but scary http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/compiz/tree/plugins/blur.c
[22:37:31] iamlindoro: juski, Say what you will about the usefulness of their software, there's plenty to rip off from them
[22:37:37] Dagmar: It are full of maths!
[22:37:50] Dagmar: ...Hmm... That doesn't work as well when everything's spelled properly.
[22:38:09] juski: jesus. looks like they're doing it with a fragment shader
[22:38:27] juski: way out of my depth. Way way WAY out
[22:39:04] dustybin: whoever can read and understand that code, is seriously _bright_
[22:39:09] Dagmar: Looks like a normal blur function to me
[22:39:23] ** Dagmar looks again **
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[22:39:53] Dagmar: Right so... lead in the water where you guys are?
[22:40:13] kormoc: it *is* dustybin after all
[22:40:51] kormoc: juski, fragments are not that hard to understand, just think of them as mini programs
[22:41:16] Dagmar: The sharp bits that go flying throught the GPU cores and making things happen
[22:41:28] gbee: there is lead piping in my house ... what's your point? wait, where am I?
[22:41:43] jruppal: hey guys...I am looking into building a HTPC/DVR, and a friend recommended myth to me. I am going to have HD digital cable (Time Warner), and outputting to a TV capable of 1080p. I was wondering if this video card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127412) and this tuner card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116007) are supported and sufficient.
[22:42:15] jruppal: ...for recording and outputting 1080p
[22:42:15] juski: Dagmar: will you just quit ripping on folks for half an hour?!
[22:42:41] Dagmar: juski: The fragment code is weird, but the rest is fairly simple math
[22:42:42] juski: Dagmar: if you're so ****ing shit-hot at stuff, YOU fricking do it
[22:42:46] kormoc: jruppal, due to the nature of digital cable, that card won't get you much, as it's (mostly) all encrypted, you'll want to use something like the hdpvr
[22:42:57] Dagmar: So, being that I'm NOT "ripping" on someone, I shall not cease to do so.
[22:43:43] jruppal: +kormoc: who makes it?
[22:43:55] juski: kormoc: ah so fragment shading is like operating on different parts of things separately.. and I'm guessing with more shader pipelines that means parallelisation?
[22:43:56] kormoc: jruppal, happauge
[22:44:10] gbee: no seriously, there is lead piping in this house, but lead levels in the water were pretty low so there was no need to replace it
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[22:44:46] kormoc: juski, aye, fragment shading is actually just another term for pixel shading, it's a mini program that gets run on each pixel/pixel group
[22:44:47] juski: we *had* lead piping in this house, but it eventually revealed itself when it started to fail, so floors got ripped up & I replaced it
[22:44:55] dustybin: gbee: nothing wrong with a bit of lead in your pencil :D
[22:45:03] kormoc: juski, and yeah, the more shaders you have, the more it can do at once, and thus the faster the op
[22:45:18] juski: so, for best results, I need to climb yet another mountain
[22:45:24] juski: oh crap :)
[22:45:32] kormoc: methinks you enjoy it ;)
[22:45:53] juski: I do like a challenge sometimes but this..
[22:46:17] juski: definitely tempted to try something quick n dirty & see if I can get away with it
[22:46:28] Dagmar: Dude, as far as I've been able to tell, that's a bit where they expect people to throw instructions at the card and cross their fingers
[22:46:33] jruppal: +kormoc: so I would have to use that hdpvr to record the cable signals?
[22:46:45] Dagmar: ...and the SOLE reason I know this is because of effing video games
[22:46:52] kormoc: jruppal, if you want all of them, aye, and it works with your cable box.
[22:47:25] iamlindoro: juski, If you light the way I'll happily try to pick some of it up and help expand what you get going
[22:47:42] kormoc: jruppal, that said, the HDPVR will be supported in 0.22, not 0.21 (the current release). 0.22 should be out in a few weeks, so you might not be able to use it right away, but it won't be long
[22:47:54] jruppal: ok
[22:48:13] iamlindoro: juski, Which I just reread and realize it might be take wrongly-- what I mean is if you get it figured out and I can bounce questions off of you, I'll try to do my part
[22:48:25] jruppal: so that thing is essentailly an external tuner, as opposed to an internal PCI card?
[22:48:49] Dagmar: jruppal: Try Googling for it. The picture makes it somewhat obvious.
[22:48:50] iamlindoro: jruppal, It's not a tuner at all, it captures the output from your Set Top Box
[22:48:52] kormoc: jruppal, it's actually not a tuner percey, it's a component capture device (external)
[22:49:16] juski: iamlindoro: sure :)
[22:49:32] nbetham: don't those use ir blasters to change the channel on the box
[22:49:46] juski: nbetham: you bet
[22:50:09] Dagmar: Naked slave girl support for channel changing is rather limited.
[22:50:23] kormoc: nbetham, or you can use firewire or usb (if you're very lucky)
[22:50:51] jruppal: +kormoc: are there any tuner cards that will work with digital cable?
[22:51:25] kormoc: jruppal, sure, but they won't decrypt it, so it's unwatchable
[22:51:37] Hadaka: Dagmar: damn, I was hoping there'd be a plugin to crack the whip when Å„eeded
[22:51:50] kormoc: Hadaka, that'd take the fun out of it!
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[22:52:09] Dagmar: yeah we don't really want to automate just everything. Let's not be hasty
[22:52:21] Dagmar: ....because that leads to unclosed formatting elements.
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[22:54:51] sphery: iamlindoro: d'oh... quilt > refresh . Oh, wait. It's not a problem since I'm using quilt to manage my patch filenames. >-)
[22:55:11] iamlindoro: sphery, I use pastebin search to manage my patches
[22:55:14] iamlindoro: works GREAT
[22:55:29] sphery: One day I'll convince you to use quilt... Even if I have to take down pastebin to make it happen.
[22:55:33] iamlindoro: for the first month
[22:55:48] iamlindoro: It's a built in method of making sure I finish all work within 30 days
[22:55:51] sphery: (Actually, I would never take down pastebin... Please don't think I'm really an evil hacker.)
[22:55:51] iamlindoro: ;)
[22:56:07] iamlindoro: not at all, you are bustybin-level-harmless :)
[22:56:09] iamlindoro: er dustybin
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[22:56:26] sphery: Yeah, quilt doesn't have a built-in timeline management mechanism. That's probably why you--unlike me--actually finish your patches.
[22:56:28] GreyFoxx: Do you know something we don't about mr sphery ?
[22:57:08] nbetham: i'm a newbie at software coding but how do people other than the company go about coding drivers for something things like a capture card
[22:57:12] sphery: My bins are not dusty. I just cleaned all my trash receptacles last week!
[22:58:16] sphery: nbetham: fortunately, some companies are good companies that actually understand opensource, so Hauppauge^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hthey have employees work on writing drivers for the hardware.
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[22:58:30] Dagmar: nbetham: Think of it like reaching behind the frige to figure out why it won't work
[22:58:40] sphery: heh, that's a good description
[22:58:40] iamlindoro: In the interest of clarity, those people do it *on their own time* and w/ no support frmo the company
[22:58:55] Dagmar: ...except there's at least a dozen wall receptacles, and some pieces from an old VCR and a blender have fallen back there.
[22:58:56] sphery: wow, I didn't realize that...
[22:59:35] gbee: blender is still running too
[22:59:49] Dagmar: I'm in the middle of reverse-engineer WTF goes on inside this animatronic halloween toy I bought last night for fiddy bucks
[22:59:53] nbetham: has to be a lot of trial and error
[23:00:02] sphery: I knew they spent a ton of their own time on it, but I thought they had some who did it as their job...
[23:00:09] Dagmar: I'm both arms and a neck behind the fridge at this point
[23:00:33] iamlindoro: nbetham, Commonly, the devs get datasheets on the components from the companies, write the drivers, send the code to the component manufacturers for an "ok" and then release
[23:00:33] jruppal: +kormoc, so If I use the hdpvr, I will still be able to watch live TV and store it on the machine running myth, correct? (I guess I'm just a bit fuzzy on how it works, since I thought myth needed an internal tuner card)
[23:00:43] sphery: Now I'm just that much more appreciative of their work.
[23:01:02] kormoc: jruppal, aye, it'll work as if it was a tuner card, it just uses the cable box as the tuner
[23:01:06] iamlindoro: nbetham, it's less trial and error than you might think-- then, once the components (which are used across many products) are understood, it's a matter of writing the glue to put them together for a new device that uses known components
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[23:01:46] nbetham: Ah, I se
[23:01:49] sphery: unless of course the device does all-proprietary/custom things (like, for example, the ATI All-in-Wonder cards)
[23:02:06] iamlindoro: in which case those devices remain unsupported :)
[23:02:12] Dagmar: The absolute f**kers who built this thing sealed ti's control unit in some black epoxy
[23:02:13] sphery: exactly
[23:02:14] gbee: there are datasheets and then there are datasheets, the ones which commonly find their way into the public domain often only tell some of the story, practically it really helps to have a list of registers and what they do when prodded
[23:02:23] Dagmar: Datasheets are WIN
[23:02:29] sphery: or get some kind of hacked support and a project named after a spanish feline
[23:02:38] sphery: but can't be used anywhere useful
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[23:03:31] jruppal: +kormoc, so that hdpvr will work well for getting the video *onto* the myth box. Now, as far as output goes, will this video card work well to get it to the TV: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127412
[23:03:52] Dagmar: It'll work fine
[23:04:03] Dagmar: ...so long as your TV doesn't have only SCART inputs
[23:04:15] kormoc: jruppal, aye, should work great, and will have vc-1 VDPAU support (also a part of 0.22), so you'll have hardware h.264 decoding
[23:04:31] kormoc: the HDMI audio might be tricky, but people have done it
[23:04:40] kormoc: I just personally have not
[23:04:47] sphery: Dagmar: mine has the little spade connectors
[23:04:55] Dagmar: I'll freely admit I gave up
[23:05:15] Dagmar: My stereo has a buncha discrete inputs that were a lot less hassle to use
[23:05:18] gbee: started writing a webcam driver a few years ago, the 'datasheet' we got was little more than a specsheet, listing capabilities but not registers etc – Lets just say that someone else who had actually written a USB device driver before very quickly took over the dev work leaving me just to 'manage' aka moderate the mailing list and website ...
[23:05:29] jruppal: +kormoc: could I alternatively just pop in a sound card and use audio from that?
[23:06:18] kormoc: jruppal, likely, although it would depend on your tv, if it can mix HDMI inputs with other audio inputs.
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[23:07:23] jruppal: +kormoc: the audio would actually be going to a receiver, not the TV....so that should work, right?
[23:07:37] kormoc: jruppal, should be fine, aye
[23:07:48] gbee: thought SCART was a european-only thing?
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[23:08:37] jruppal: +kormoc: and as far as other hardware requirements, an older dual core processor and like 2GB of RAM should be sufficient?
[23:08:40] Dagmar: gbee: It is
[23:08:49] Dagmar: If his TV had only those inputs, he'd be in a world of hurt
[23:08:55] kormoc: jruppal, with VDPAU, yes, it should be fine
[23:08:57] juski: eew. easy & dirty is SLOW
[23:09:05] jruppal: what's VPAV?
[23:09:08] iamlindoro: juski, Did you get it working?
[23:09:11] jruppal: *VDPAV
[23:09:19] juski: iamlindoro: kind of
[23:09:32] kormoc: jruppal, h264 is a monster to decode, VDPAU is the nvidia hardware decoding that supports h264, and the HDPVR captures h264
[23:09:39] gbee: jruppal: hardware decoding of video done by the graphics chip
[23:09:44] Dagmar: The east-enders' version of VDPAU?
[23:09:52] sphery: VDPAV is the old latin version of nvidia's hardware decode functionality.
[23:09:52] juski: iamlindoro: can't see the effect yet but it's done something crazy to rotated images
[23:10:02] iamlindoro: juski, heh
[23:10:22] nbetham: So, I was asking about this earlier, why is it that my hvr 1800 analog side plays back in slow motion and audio is verrry deep
[23:11:04] iamlindoro: nbetham, I wasn't making it up when I said that the driver was broken such that it can't be used in myth
[23:11:21] iamlindoro: there is *no point* in wasting time trying to troubleshoot analog in mythtv w/ that card until it is fixed
[23:12:47] jruppal: +kormoc: is that GeForce 9400 chipset should be beefy enough to handle the decoding
[23:12:48] jruppal: ?
[23:13:53] iamlindoro: jruppal, yes
[23:14:05] nbetham: should it work fine out side of myth?
[23:14:15] iamlindoro: nbetham, YES
[23:14:18] juski: iamlindoro: I've set this up to do 5 iterations. It's slow as hell doing all the buttlonlist icon images
[23:14:35] juski: when I say slow as hell I mean it's really noticable
[23:14:42] nbetham: it does that out side as well
[23:15:09] iamlindoro: nbetham, The *only* thing that matters is that it Will. Not. work with myth right now
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[23:16:16] nbetham: What i mean is that when i cat the /dev/video1 to an mpg file mplayer plays it back slow as well
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[23:16:50] iamlindoro: nbetham, What *I* mean is that this is the MythTV support channel and that that cad cannot work in Myth, therefore our support for you ends at "your card doesn't work, come back when the driver is fixed"
[23:16:54] juski: definitely need to sort out a constructor for that fx struct somehow too
[23:17:01] iamlindoro: s/cad/card/
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[23:17:57] nbetham: Ok sorry
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[23:19:55] juski: meh. something definitely wrong there
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[23:22:00] juski: not as much fun as http://imagebin.ca/img/YxJixw.png though :D
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[23:22:37] kormoc: juski, twilight zone theme?
[23:22:51] juski: first pass at a rotate feature :P
[23:22:57] juski: went a bit Pete Tong
[23:24:22] jduggan: heh
[23:24:36] jduggan: you'll be getting non-brits scratching their heads @ pete tong
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[23:25:26] juski: Pete Tong / wrong :)
[23:26:24] jruppal: if I were to buy a blu-ray drive for my PC running myth, would it be able to play blu-ray disks smoothly (with an AMD X2 3800+ dual core processor, 2GB RAM, and a GeForce 9400 video card)?
[23:26:39] Dagmar: Probably not
[23:26:49] Dagmar: That whole, lack of Linux drivers for blueray drives being one thing
[23:26:53] juski: hey, according to the VERBOSE in glpainter I just added, the screen is all being redrawn every second. the buttonarea shouldn't be getting marked as dirty
[23:28:39] juski: the VERBOSE is inside my blur loop so should only be happening when images with blur set – in this case it's the buttonlist images only
[23:29:01] jruppal: Dagmar: no one has gotten it working in linux? (also, what distro do people have the most luck with running myth on?)
[23:29:09] AndyCap: ghetto ikea mini-itx case. http://imagebin.org/61371  :P
[23:29:28] Dagmar: jruppal: There's one drive that I hear works
[23:29:37] Dagmar: You'll still have to rip the disks, then play the image
[23:29:43] jruppal: ah
[23:29:53] iamlindoro: jruppal, There is next-to-no support for decrypting the material in linux
[23:30:16] iamlindoro: jruppal, You can buy any drive you want-- but all disks are encrypted with BD+ now, and that's basically unbroken in linux so far
[23:30:55] iamlindoro: you can rip w/ AnyDVD Hd in windows and copy the movie file to Myth, and you can decrypt *some* early Blu-ray disks in linux and rip them, but it all ends w/ no menus, no extras, etc.
[23:32:07] nbetham: how come blu-ray won out over hd-dvd
[23:32:32] juski: it just did :)
[23:32:33] iamlindoro: because it's technically better and wasn't mismanaged as badly by the supporting companies
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[23:45:37] iamlindoro: Heh
[23:45:37] iamlindoro: http://www.1394ta.org/consumers/FCC_complaint.html
[23:46:51] Dagmar: Sweeeert
[23:47:03] Dagmar: If you don't link that from the wiki tonight, I sure as hell will
[23:47:12] sphery: nice
[23:47:34] sphery: sounds a /lot/ like there may be some gov beaurocracy involved in creating that procedure
[23:49:17] Dagmar: More like a lot of paperwork involved in creating a class-action suit to make the FCC actually *do* something
[23:49:32] juski: no *way* is there an opengl construct for drawing a teapot. LOL
[23:49:44] Dagmar: The moment you're asking for something more complex than some guys to go out and pull down an antenna wire someplace, you'r eon thin ice with them
[23:49:59] Dagmar: ...and even then it's iffy.
[23:50:03] kormoc: juski, 4 teapots is the classic opengl app!
[23:50:13] Dagmar: It took them fifteen years to get around to investigating the malfunctioning antenna at 91.1 here.
[23:50:31] Dagmar: Someone wasn't given enough instruction about how to run the antenna up the tower, so they ran ALL the wire
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[23:50:50] Dagmar: Our options were to climb up it again and cut three hundred feet from the end, or turn down the amp by almost 30%
[23:51:17] Dagmar: The station was licenced for 14,500 watts and ERP was somewhere between 21,500 and 24,000
[23:51:45] Dagmar: So, you see they are a little slow.
[23:52:15] Dagmar: I mean, transmittter infractions are ostensibly the thing that's more important that they do
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[23:52:27] Dagmar: ...and you could almost pick that station in Nashville up *from* the field office in Atlanta
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[23:56:21] sphery: I thought the teapot was in GLUT, not GL itself...
[23:57:00] wagnerrp: graphics library und teapots?
[23:57:11] juski: yeah, but same diff as far as I'm concerned
[23:57:24] sphery: weird... my Google page has a logo that says, "Google portugues (Brasil)"
[23:57:45] sphery: but prefs says "Display Google tips and messages in: English"
[23:57:58] sphery: fixed now...
[23:58:07] sphery: wonder who was messing with their image server
[23:59:17] sphery: anyway, yeah, juski, it's funny that that's "built in"

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