Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Sunday, June 28th, 2009, 00:00 UTC

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broseidon:

logs are not revealing anything new

[00:08:02]

broseidon:

i only want to get playback up on that one computer

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wagnerrp:

sphery: ive been spending all this time trying to figure out why my script wasnt working

[00:27:05]

wagnerrp:

so i ran yours and yours isnt working either

[00:27:16]

wagnerrp:

the right way or the wrong way

[00:27:45]

phatmatt:

hello

[00:28:19]

phatmatt:

trying to compile mythtv, which instruction set should I be following? I assume the wiki is more current

[00:29:07]

wagnerrp:

compiling from source... use the documentation on the wiki or on the main page

[00:29:22]

phatmatt:

they differ significantly

[00:29:50]

wagnerrp:

well they both get you to the same place eventually

[00:29:58]

wagnerrp:

any problems you run up against, go ahead and ask

[00:30:42]

wagnerrp:

i havent really looked at either in years, but im sure they have the same basic steps

[00:31:03]

wagnerrp:

install mysql, mythtv dependencies, mythtv

[00:31:12]

phatmatt:

well, configure is complaining " You must have a threaded Qt installed to compile MythTV."

[00:31:30]

wagnerrp:

run mysql, set database permissions, run mythtv-setup, run through the steps, and then run mythbackend and mythfrontend

[00:31:31]

phatmatt:

but i installed the qt packages indicated in the wiki

[00:31:49]

phatmatt:

at least I thought I did

[00:33:15]

wagnerrp:

huh... the wiki initial installation page for 0.21 says to install qt4-dev-tools and libqt4-dev... that cant be right

[00:33:16]

phatmatt:

is this an environment variable hangup?

[00:33:21]

wagnerrp:

0.21 uses qt3

[00:33:42]

phatmatt:

ok, I was a bit confused about which one was being used

[00:33:52]

wagnerrp:

where did you get this source?

[00:33:59]

phatmatt:

svn fixes

[00:34:15]

wagnerrp:

yeah, you should grab the qt3 packages

[00:34:30]

phatmatt:

so the wiki is wrong

[00:34:31]

wagnerrp:

it might be easier to use your package manager to install mythtv

[00:34:39]

wagnerrp:

then uninstall it, and build the source

[00:34:54]

wagnerrp:

the package manager will pick up whatever dependencies it wants

[00:35:05]

phatmatt:

I was wondering about doing that also

[00:35:35]

phatmatt:

well, I give it another go like this

[00:35:47]

wagnerrp:

although it might miss out on some development packages, headers and such

[00:36:03]

phatmatt:

then I might try the canned packaged

[00:36:31]

wagnerrp:

all of my machines run source-centric package managers, so ive never really had a problem with not having the developmental files

[00:37:28]

clever:

i never remove those, so once its all fixed, i never have to bother with them

[00:37:42]

clever:

and its fairly simple to work out what it wants when you use things like apt-file

[00:38:12]

phatmatt:

never used that

[00:38:32]

clever:

apt-file will basicaly let you search the list of files provided by every package

[00:39:04]

clever:

so i can figure out what package contains ncurses.h, without having to know what the package is called

[00:40:19]

Dagmar:

Actually learning how to work your distro

[00:40:33]

Dagmar:

...or perhaps consulting the man page for your package management tool.

[00:40:42]

Dagmar:

Priceless.

[00:41:43]

phatmatt:

that's uncalled for

[00:41:50]

Dagmar:

What?

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Dagmar:

I ENDORSE him reading man pages and learning things.

[00:42:10]

phatmatt:

belittling me

[00:42:32]

Dagmar:

Well, if you've got some complex, that's your problem.

[00:42:40]

wagnerrp:

you dont understand, clever is always doing things in some whacked out manner

[00:42:51]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar is saying clever is actually doing things properly this time

[00:42:56]

Dagmar:

I, on the other hand, am merely highlighting the incredible utility getting to know one's distro has.

[00:43:25]

Dagmar:

Yeah I would have half-expected him to try manually grepping whatever directories looked good

[00:43:42]

clever:

which only works if the data isnt gzip'd:P

[00:43:44]

Dagmar:

...or to be digging around with wget and debian's distro site or somethign

[00:43:55]

Dagmar:

clever: zgrep is yer friend. ;)

[00:44:11]

clever:

forgot about that one, but it probly wont work with the non-gzip'd stuff:P

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[00:44:58]

cornell:

I do not understand why I'm not getting any hits on the scan today... I was sure I had done "cable", I did it this evening, nothing. I'm trying other Frequency tables.

[00:47:12]

wagnerrp:

is the cable unplugged?

[00:50:59]

cornell:

Wasn't yesterday, let me check

[00:51:34]

wagnerrp:

i mean you have to ask, ive had threadless cables pull out

[00:51:45]

wagnerrp:

ive had cables cut in 'gardening mishaps'

[00:52:07]

wagnerrp:

'i thought it was a vine'

[00:55:28]

cornell:

The line into the other box has sometimes had difficulty, but never this one...

[00:55:31]

cornell:

Except

[00:55:39]

cornell:

It was loose

[00:56:04]

cornell:

It was screwed into a threadless adapter and plugged into the hdhomerun, and was loose.

[00:56:14]

cornell:

Removed the threadless, and screwed it in.

[00:56:21]

cornell:

I'll start the scans again.

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cornell:

BTW, I've been googling about cable, cable-HRC and cable-IRC,etc. And finding nothing, other than pick the right one. How do I pick the right one ?

[00:58:48]

wagnerrp:

trial and error

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cornell:

lol

[01:00:01]

sphery:

wagnerrp: getting any errors with it?

[01:00:13]

sphery:

it works fine on my systems

[01:00:21]

sphery:

note that you have to specify the chanid and starttime in the right formats

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sphery:

i.e.: ./myth_find_recording.pl --chanid 1351 --starttime '2009-05–15T20:00:00'

[01:00:57]

sphery:

and it must be a valid combo that matches an existing recording

[01:00:58]

wagnerrp:

no errors, it just returns '0[]:[]'

[01:01:07]

wagnerrp:

same thing ive been getting all this time under python

[01:01:26]

sphery:

even no errors with --wrongway

[01:01:41]

sphery:

--wrongway actually checks to verify that we got a valid programinfo back from the backend

[01:02:09]

phatmatt:

qt3 packages fixed the error that I was getting from configure, should I ignore this warning that configure is giving me "cc1: warning: -funit-at-a-time is required for inlining of functions that are only called once"

[01:02:35]

sphery:

(right way lets the bindings handle it, but I didn't check that the hash/array thing actually had a valid recording, because I don't know my perl well enough and didn't feel like looking it all up :)

[01:04:42]

wagnerrp:

http://www.pastebin.ca/1477005

[01:04:56]

wagnerrp:

both ways, valid recording, nothing from QUERY_CHECKFILE

[01:05:02]

wagnerrp:

maybe thats been changed in trunk

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cornell:

Ok... I'm picking up some using QAM-256, frequency table "cable". Does it do any good to try other frequency tables?

[01:16:59]

sphery:

wagnerrp: it looks like QUERY_CHECKFILE should work the same on both trunk and -fixes

[01:17:28]

wagnerrp:

well ive still got the code written to scan the storage groups, ill just use that for now

[01:21:46]

cornell:

Ok, I've scanned, I should now fetch?

[01:21:57]

wagnerrp:

fetch?

[01:22:26]

wagnerrp:

from listings provider? no

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[01:22:42]

sphery:

cornell: you never do both

[01:22:48]

cornell:

Installing mythtv.... Initial configuration, in mythtv-setup, Connect Sources to Input... I've scanned, and gotten some shannels.

[01:22:51]

cornell:

Ah, ok

[01:22:52]

wagnerrp:

thats only an option for analog channels, where the channel number is the only thing you need to ID a channel

[01:22:53]

sphery:

cornell: you scan, then you edit xmltvid's, then run mythfilldatabase

[01:23:15]

sphery:

cornell: so use mythtv-setup's channel editor to edit channels one by one

[01:23:40]

sphery:

cornell: or use MythWeb's channel editor to edit all channels at once (in a web page and using a real keyboard)

[01:23:47]

sphery:

just make sure you have the proper xmltvid in each

[01:23:55]

cornell:

Ok... now to edit xmltvid's... Looking at my schedules direct list, on their website, the column xmlid, tha't's the xmltvid?

[01:24:16]

sphery:

yeah

[01:25:06]

cornell:

k. Now, for mythweb, I need the backend running... so back out of mythtv-setup and start backend.

[01:25:10]

sphery:

cornell: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/XMLTV_ID

[01:25:19]

sphery:

cornell: yeah

[01:25:45]

sphery:

"In North America at least, there is a tradition for for channels to be on the same frequency everywhere. So channel 7 is on the same channel in all homes across the country." ??? (from http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/XMLTV_Myth_Channel_Setup )

[01:26:13]

sphery:

channel 7 is channel 7 everywhere it's channel 7, but the contents of channel 7 vary across the hundreds of market areas in the US

[01:26:32]

wagnerrp:

absolutely true

[01:26:35]

cornell:

??? Have you found that to be true?... .yeah, that's more like it, 7 is 7, but what's on 7 varies.

[01:26:44]

sphery:

the callsign... the most misunderstood thing in Myth

[01:26:48]

wagnerrp:

channel 7 is always on the same frequency

[01:27:05]

sphery:

yeah, always on the same frequency given the same frequency table

[01:27:23]

wagnerrp:

well assuming youre talking about broadcast, channel 7 is always the same frequency

[01:27:24]

sphery:

but it's still channel 7 if in a country with a different frequency table and if it was called channel 7 :)

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sphery:

wagnerrp: so, it doesn't work on my trunk box, either... just get 0 matches

[01:27:54]

sphery:

don't know what's up with CHECKFILE

[01:27:57]

cornell:

I need to back out of mythtv-setup, and start backup, right?

[01:28:07]

wagnerrp:

cornell: to do what?

[01:28:20]

sphery:

cornell: start mythbackend

[01:28:26]

sphery:

if you want to run mythweb

[01:28:34]

sphery:

or just use mythtv-setup's channel editor

[01:28:38]

cornell:

To get into mythweb, .. right

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cornell:

Seems mythweb would be easier.

[01:29:06]

wagnerrp:

well either way, you need the backend running so you can actually check what is on those channels

[01:29:16]

sphery:

wagnerrp: 2009-06–27 21:21:11.556 GetRecordBasename found no entry for @ 1969-12–31T19:00:00

[01:29:26]

sphery:

got those in your backend log?

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** sphery thinks it's a Qt4 time issue **

[01:29:49]

sphery:

2009-06–27 21:21:11.554 ProgramInfo: FromStringList, not enough items in list.

[01:29:58]

wagnerrp:

yeah, ive got a few

[01:30:06]

sphery:

actually, it would be that someone modified programinfo and didn't modify all the right things...

[01:30:25]

sphery:

so, basically, trunk is broke, it seems

[01:30:44]

wagnerrp:

does that mean CHECKFILE is largely unused, if no one noticed it?

[01:30:46]

sphery:

and I was /so/ close to finishing up a different project I'm doing for a friend

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sphery:

first, we need to update the "If NUMPROGRAMLINES gets updated..." warning at the top of libs/libmythtv/programinfo.h , as mythplugins/mythweb/includes/mythbackend.php no longer exists

[01:33:34]

cornell:

Ok... so I'm in mythweb settings tv, I see a form with lots of rows. The first has callsign kyw-dt... So I look in schedules direct for kyw-dt, and get th xmlvid, and put it in the xmltvid field in mythweb. Repeat until done, right?

[01:33:43]

** sphery wishes kormoc were here... **

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wagnerrp:

cornell: yep

[01:34:15]

sphery:

now Pink Floyd and Incubus are fighting in my brain

[01:34:21]

sphery:

Wish You Were Here...

[01:34:32]

cornell:

Ouch, that sounds tough, sphery ;-)

[01:35:22]

wagnerrp:

thats a fight, not a slaughter?

[01:38:00]

sphery:

Great. Now "Up All Night" is stuck in my head.

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cornell:

On mythweb, I've got WPVI-DT, WPVI-SD and WPVI-WE. On schedules direct, I have WPVIDT, WPVIDT2, WPVIDT3. Which is which? This is where I go over to livetv, try watching it and see if I can figure it out, right?

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[01:41:09]

sphery:

on schedules direct, you should have a 15.1, 15.2, 15.3. Chances are it lines up with myth's channel number

[01:41:17]

sphery:

(unless your cable co gives you garbage)

[01:41:18]

cornell:

Ah

[01:42:51]

cornell:

On schedules direct, they're 245, 246 and 247, on mythweb, I see 6_1, 6_2 and 6_3.

[01:43:15]

cornell:

Safe to assume that, in order is in order, i.e. 245 is 6_1, 246 is 6_2?

[01:43:38]

wagnerrp:

those '6' numbers are the named given in the transport stream

[01:43:45]

sphery:

wagnerrp: it's just the perl bindings that are broken... someone didin't add the extra field to to_string() in Program.pm

[01:44:07]

sphery:

now to just find out what the new field is

[01:44:12]

wagnerrp:

they have no relation to the names handed out by your cable box

[01:44:15]

cornell:

Wait... they're 231, 246 and 247.

[01:44:27]

cornell:

ok... so watch and figure it out.

[01:44:47]

wagnerrp:

the named channels you should be able to figure out

[01:44:51]

cornell:

I'm assuming that WE is weather, SD is standard def and DT is.... what?

[01:44:53]

wagnerrp:

its the unnamed channels that you have to watch

[01:44:58]

wagnerrp:

digital

[01:44:58]

sphery:

digital

[01:45:03]

wagnerrp:

score!

[01:45:11]

** sphery is too slow **

[01:45:13]

cornell:

And that's diffierent from SD... .how?

[01:45:15]

wagnerrp:

gooooooaaaaaaaallllllllllllll!!!!

[01:45:29]

wagnerrp:

one is there analog stream, rebroadcast in digital

[01:45:44]

wagnerrp:

the other is usually their HD stream, or perhaps a third channel they did not previously have

[01:45:47]

sphery:

in the US, someone brainwashed the masses into thinking that digital = high-definition

[01:46:48]

wagnerrp:

my local stations show up as -DT and -DT2, DT2 being their weather channel

[01:46:58]

cornell:

Ok, so there's WPVI-6, analog, WPVI-DT analog converted to digital?, WPVI-SD is digital?

[01:47:10]

wagnerrp:

and then i often have a third with no suffix giving the transcoded analog stream

[01:47:24]

wagnerrp:

its all digital

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[01:48:09]

wagnerrp:

ive been meaning to rescan after the transition and see if the SD simulcasts dropped off my lineup

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[01:48:38]

cornell:

Well... yeah... so WPVI-6 is analog, being delivered in digital... So what's the difference between WPVI-DT and WPVI-SD?

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wagnerrp:

one is weather?

[01:49:02]

wagnerrp:

in standard definition

[01:49:17]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, the bindings have been broken for 9 months

[01:49:26]

sphery:

since http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/18419

[01:51:31]

sphery:

he got the from string, but not the to string part

[01:54:44]

wagnerrp:

so *I* broke my toString function

[01:54:49]

wagnerrp:

... what variable did i leave out...

[01:55:11]

sphery:

no, gb ee broke it 9 months ago :)

[01:55:26]

sphery:

I'm doing a ticket. Patch will be there in a few

[01:56:01]

wagnerrp:

i mean the python bindings, if the problem was with the perl bindings, why dont the python ones work

[01:56:33]

wagnerrp:

or is it all broken in the same manner

[01:58:55]

cornell:

I think that I'm going to just take a guess, and myth fill and see if the listings correspond, and fix what's mixed up. Sound like a plan?

[01:59:06]

CyberKnet:

I've added a HVR-2250 to my backend, and I just added the cards in mythtvsetup – I added a new lineup with the few digital channels that I expect to be able to get over QAM, but the channels don't appear in the dropdown when I go to set the source on the input... the button to download also isn't appearing to do anything.

[01:59:16]

CyberKnet:

any ideas for how I can get these channels to show up here?

[01:59:21]

wagnerrp:

cornell: i would look through the options to only do one day

[01:59:32]

wagnerrp:

a mythfilldatabase run can take a LONG TIMTE

[01:59:47]

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[01:59:49]

sphery:

wagnerrp: wouldn't be surprised if the python bindings are similarly broken.

[02:00:30]

sphery:

actually, you said there's no to_string functionality in the python bindings?

[02:00:33]

cornell:

Oh, mythfilldatabase for only one day, right wagnerrp?

[02:00:50]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no, i made one

[02:01:15]

wagnerrp:

basically i took the part that parsed out the incoming Program data, and reversed it

[02:01:28]

sphery:

should work that way

[02:01:38]

wagnerrp:

the only difference from the input and output strings is precision on one of the float values

[02:01:40]

sphery:

test yours and see if the backend complains

[02:01:46]

sphery:

if not, then something else is causing the issue

[02:01:48]

wagnerrp:

it returns '0.0' from the input of '0.00000'

[02:02:30]

wagnerrp:

like i said, ive been getting the same result as your perl script since this afternoon

[02:02:48]

cornell:

Ok.... the data from sd is linked to the channel by the xmltvid. If I mythfilldatabase, and the listings are wrong, changing the xmltvid will just change what episode info is linked to what.... channel. Right?

[02:03:42]

wagnerrp:

if you grab data for a day, it will overwrite any data currently stored for that day

[02:04:00]

wagnerrp:

so if the previous data was written with an incorrect xmlid, rerunning it with a correct xmlid will fix it

[02:04:01]

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[02:04:05]

cornell:

But... only episode data

[02:04:15]

cornell:

Ah, ok.

[02:04:16]

wagnerrp:

what other data is there?

[02:04:22]

cornell:

Either way, easily fixable.

[02:04:50]

cornell:

What other data? freqid, channum, callsign, name, etc.

[02:04:50]

wagnerrp:

it does not go back and fix info on old recordings, if thats what youre asking

[02:04:56]

cornell:

No.

[02:05:20]

cornell:

Once recordings are done, the id's, pointers are fixed in the recordings database (and perhaps elsewhere)

[02:05:34]

cornell:

Recordings table

[02:06:51]

CyberKnet:

running mythfilldatabase didn't populate those channels. :| Anyone know how I add channels from a new lineup?

[02:07:30]

wagnerrp:

youre using digital TV? you dont add channels from a lineup

[02:07:40]

wagnerrp:

you scan for channels, and then match them to your lineup

[02:08:00]

CyberKnet:

Oh.

[02:08:30]

cornell:

Oh boy... two folks trying to figure out the match up part ;-)

[02:08:35]

cornell:

Hi CyberKnet ;-)

[02:08:42]

CyberKnet:

via the channel editor in mythtvsetup, I presume?

[02:08:44]

CyberKnet:

hi cornell

[02:09:02]

wagnerrp:

in either mythtv-setup or mythweb, your choice

[02:09:34]

CyberKnet:

And that will only add unencrypted channels?

[02:09:52]

wagnerrp:

channel scanning can only be done from within mythtv-setup

[02:10:04]

wagnerrp:

the channel editor is for editing channels once theyre already scanned

[02:10:13]

wagnerrp:

to do things such as add xmlids

[02:10:24]

CyberKnet:

thanks wagnerrp... sorry for such a simple question.

[02:10:58]

CyberKnet:

I did try to wiki my way through this before asking – although I could see how with that answer it would certainly seem I didn't. First experience with digital cards...

[02:11:00]

cornell:

CyberKnet: It's just like deja vu all over again, I've been trying to figure this out all evening...

[02:11:12]

cornell:

But wagnerrp and sphery are very helpful

[02:11:52]

CyberKnet:

Yes, they are. They're both very smart folks, and I do try not to bother them with things that I should have found on my own... I don't want to waste their time.

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[02:15:17]

wagnerrp:

now on to filling out videometadata

[02:15:44]

wagnerrp:

this is really turning out to be an ugly little cludged together script

[02:16:32]

psm321:

cornell: if you're just trying to get something working quick, i still recommend scte65scan

[02:16:52]

psm321:

liek i said though, you'll miss out on a few channels with that, especially local OTA HD

[02:17:49]

psm321:

assuming of course that comcast has DTAs in your area (i think theyre doing it most places now? not sure)

[02:23:17]

Dagmar:

DTAs?

[02:23:35]

wagnerrp:

digital transport adapter

[02:23:48]

wagnerrp:

cable box sans modular crypto hardware

[02:23:49]

Dagmar:

Oh those adapter boxes the FCC was shipping out coupons for

[02:24:05]

wagnerrp:

no, something special for comcast cable

[02:24:10]

Dagmar:

Oh

[02:24:21]

wagnerrp:

its a cheap digital tuner they can ship out, so people arent so pissed off about them removing all the analog channels

[02:24:47]

Dagmar:

All the local francise here has is analog cable boxes, and digital cable boxes

[02:25:03]

Dagmar:

They're not removing analog channels here

[02:25:08]

Dagmar:

They've no need.

[02:25:12]

wagnerrp:

this is basically just a QAM tuner strapped to an svideo output

[02:25:37]

wagnerrp:

and as such, all the channels that you can now get over clear-qam are just going to be standard definition

[02:25:48]

Dagmar:

The channels they've removed from the analog lineup here were clearly meant to try to "encourage" people to upgrade to digital cable

[02:25:50]

wagnerrp:

except now they can cram in six of them

[02:26:20]

wagnerrp:

no, probably more like 10–14 channels

[02:26:33]

psm321:

Dagmar: i'm sure they'll move towards it eventually in your area. look up project cavalry

[02:26:48]

wagnerrp:

hell, they only took like 35 analog channels, they could fit that in three digital ones

[02:26:51]

psm321:

and yes, theres 10–14 channels per channel

[02:27:00]

wagnerrp:

what are they going to do with all that bandwidth?

[02:27:11]

wagnerrp:

they cranking up internet?

[02:27:14]

psm321:

well for one theyve been advertising doubling internet speeds

[02:27:17]

wagnerrp:

or adding more VOD

[02:28:41]

psm321:

the problem is that theyre not really promising that basic channels will remain in clear QAM, it's just a temporary measure

[02:28:52]

psm321:

so as far as i'm concerned it's overall a service downgrade

[02:29:02]

wagnerrp:

they MUST be promising that

[02:29:08]

psm321:

nope

[02:29:12]

wagnerrp:

because those boxes cannot (currently) do any better

[02:29:41]

psm321:

the DTAs have privacy mode hardware (apparently a weaker form of encryption used for VOD), and theyve been trying to get an FCC waiver to enable it

[02:29:42]

wagnerrp:

are you saying theyre shipping out all these boxes that theyre going to render worthless before theyre anywhere close to paying them off?

[02:29:49]

psm321:

and the FCC has the authority to grant said waiver

[02:30:01]

wagnerrp:

theyve been trying, but i doubt theyll get it through

[02:30:18]

psm321:

that depends on the politics of the day :) not reliable at all

[02:30:35]

psm321:

i'd be much more comfortable if the devices didnt have the hardware at all

[02:30:59]

wagnerrp:

well all the data will be in-band now

[02:31:13]

wagnerrp:

so there always exists the possibility of capturing the access codes

[02:31:14]

psm321:

hmm

[02:31:19]

psm321:

good point

[02:31:50]

sphery:

wagnerrp: there's another bug in there besides the perl bindings bug

[02:32:11]

sphery:

that's why you're also affected--once fixing the perl bindings, I still get the same results

[02:34:05]

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[02:40:51]

wagnerrp:

im digging through the videometadata fields to figure out how to fill them

[02:41:07]

wagnerrp:

and came across videogenre and videometadatagenre

[02:41:19]

wagnerrp:

well i was curious to see what movies i have listed as 'Hard SF'

[02:41:32]

wagnerrp:

'2001 – A Space Odyssey'... ok

[02:41:42]

wagnerrp:

'Moonraker'.... someone on tmdb should be slapped

[02:42:19]

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[02:44:45]

mzb:

s/hard core ?? ;)

[02:45:34]

wagnerrp:

ive got 'Pretty Hard Stuff', but no 'Hard Core'

[02:45:55]

wagnerrp:

been recording the premium channels?

[02:48:44]

mzb:

heh ... only fta here

[02:49:30]

mzb:

although if I was interested in doing dodgy stuff .... nah, fta fulfils my needs

[02:50:10]

wagnerrp:

apparently i have categories but no media for 'Monumental Film' and 'Screwball Comedy Film'

[02:50:17]

mzb:

heh

[02:50:32]

wagnerrp:

how did they get generated if i dont have the content?

[02:51:15]

mzb:

grabber + expired/old ?

[02:51:55]

CyberKnet:

accidental rm /video/pr0n/ ?

[02:52:08]

mzb:

*cackle*

[02:52:12]

CyberKnet:

+ associated sql :P

[02:52:26]

mzb:

are there any home automation nuts around? I've been collecting Winplus gear (equivalent/rebadge of Marmitek?) of late in preparation for new house ... just wondering if anyone has creative ideas/integration with mythtv?

[02:53:11]

wagnerrp:

no... you cant remove genres from themoviedb or vote them down

[02:53:52]

mzb:

will have 3x CM19a, 1xCM11/12, 2x climate control, 1x 700W dimmer, remotes+transceivers, etc

[02:54:29]

wagnerrp:

how did X10 ever become a standard with a website that looks like that

[02:54:43]

mzb:

yeah, made me wonder

[02:54:49]

CyberKnet:

who knows.

[02:55:02]

wagnerrp:

i mean its the worst of the 90s redux

[02:55:12]

CyberKnet:

gave up on x10 when my firecracker tranceiver burned up...

[02:55:26]

mzb:

eg: play movie => heater adjusted, lights off in house, TV backlight on, dimmed lounge lights ... etc

[02:56:20]

mzb:

afaik the CM19a is the transceiver version of the CM17 (firecracker), but so far I've been unable to trick MH into talking to it

[02:56:22]

CyberKnet:

is there a key to delete a channel in the mythtvsetup channel editor?

[02:56:35]

mzb:

M

[02:56:41]

CyberKnet:

thx

[02:56:43]

mzb:

or use mythweb

[02:56:49]

mzb:

(I think)

[03:00:02]

sphery:

D for delete

[03:00:16]

sphery:

(though it may be available through menu, too)

[03:02:04]

sphery:

wagnerrp: for some strange reason, it's skipping the 1st 2 fields of the stringlist (using an offset of 2)

[03:02:19]

sphery:

which kind of throws everything off :)

[03:04:27]

CyberKnet:

Waiting on scan to complete...

[03:05:28]

CyberKnet:

not exactly a fast operation, is it?

[03:05:38]

wagnerrp:

not so much

[03:06:26]

wagnerrp:

well now to figure out how to link in ttvdb to add season/episode numbers to the name

[03:06:50]

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[03:07:54]

sphery:

wagnerrp: if you change it to QUERY_CHECKFILE[]:[]1[]:[]$programinfo it works

[03:09:03]

CyberKnet:

bbl, thx folks

[03:10:39]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I just don't know why it worked in -fixes without...

[03:10:44]

sphery:

trying in -fixes with...

[03:11:36]

cornell:

And before I forget, or run out of time....

[03:11:51]

cornell:

Thank you very much for your assistance, wagnerrp and sphery

[03:13:35]

sphery:

wagnerrp: strange... you use space after the command and the qualifier for QUERY_RECORDING but you use []:[] after the command and the (check_slaves) qualifier for QUERY_CHECKFILE

[03:13:49]

sphery:

guess that's how a protocol built by multiple people works.

[03:13:54]

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[03:14:12]

clever:

it uses []:[] as the seperator for half the args in most comments, and space for other args

[03:14:17]

clever:

and sometimes, both at once i think

[03:14:17]

sphery:

anyway, in both -fixes and trunk, QUERY_CHECKFILE works with []:[] .

[03:14:35]

clever:

and i have no idea what insane person came up with []:[]!

[03:14:55]

sphery:

have you ever seen it as a valid part of any of the data that's passed by Myth?

[03:15:00]

sphery:

i.e. never have to escape it

[03:15:13]

clever:

there are other options:P

[03:16:45]

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[03:17:27]

wagnerrp:

well now i broke something

[03:19:38]

wagnerrp:

no, just entering in numbers wrong

[03:20:31]

wagnerrp:

yeah, that works under python too

[03:23:57]

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[03:26:29]

wagnerrp:

cuts a dozen lines down to one

[03:28:00]

wagnerrp:

yeah... mzb, theres your reasoning for using mythproto over db access, about 20 lines of crap into 5

[03:28:47]

wagnerrp:

of course a lot of those lines got shifted over to the bindings

[03:29:05]

wagnerrp:

but you cant really can mysql queries in a way that will be widely usable

[03:29:53]

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[03:34:40]

wagnerrp:

what is this 'childid' in videometadata for?

[03:37:18]

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[03:42:45]

sphery:

/away

[03:42:59]

sphery:

wagnerrp: it's the "file to always play next"

[03:43:07]

wagnerrp:

ah

[03:43:08]

sphery:

by intit

[03:43:11]

sphery:

intid

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[05:43:39]

heyheyhey:

hey all when i do glxgears in termail i get this http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1477169

[05:44:21]

wagnerrp:

what is your card?

[05:45:34]

heyheyhey:

nvidia

[05:45:57]

wagnerrp:

and you have the nvidia drivers installed? and your xorg.conf specifies to use the 'nvidia' drivers?

[05:46:10]

heyheyhey:

yes

[05:48:29]

heyheyhey:

it very odd

[05:56:05]

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[06:04:22]

Pio:

anyone want to beta test my wxpython recording encoder? http://pio.longstair.com/misc/mythrip.jpg http://pio.longstair.com/misc/mythrip-0.1.tbz2

[06:04:39]

Pio:

it should run on any machine that has wxpython, mencoder, and is configured to run a mythfrontend

[06:05:41]

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[06:14:20]

ajh:

So any way these days to get a PC to boot without a framebuffer?

[06:15:06]

wagnerrp:

turn it off in grub

[06:15:30]

ajh:

Hrm, guess I need to put one back in to do that, know the parameter offhand?

[06:15:54]

ajh:

Oh this is annoying, the machine can only take one of the 3ware cards and in the video slot.

[06:16:06]

wagnerrp:

something to do with video and vesafb

[06:16:16]

ajh:

Argh, ok new motherboard I guess on Monday instead.

[06:16:17]

wagnerrp:

it should be fairly obvious what to remove

[06:16:31]

ajh:

They did not use the open-backed 1x slots.

[06:16:42]

wagnerrp:

easy way to fix that

[06:16:55]

ajh:

It it as simple as cutting?

[06:17:21]

ajh:

or, hot iron, as the case may be

[06:17:38]

wagnerrp:

have you never used grub manually before?

[06:18:13]

ajh:

Yeah, but not all the time, but as I just realized it won't help since there are not enough slots for my to put all the arrays on the machine anyway.

[06:19:41]

ajh:

Now to find a core duo board with at least 3 4x slots.

[06:20:05]

wagnerrp:

what do you need that many for?

[06:21:29]

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[06:27:58]

ajh:

3ware sidecar controller cards

[06:29:11]

ajh:

The Asus site really sucks, they assume you know what features each chipset can do, instead of letting you browse by features and getting a solution.

[06:30:32]

wagnerrp:

if you need that many ports, youre going to need one of the X48 or X58 intels, or a similarly high end nvidia

[06:30:49]

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[06:30:49]

wagnerrp:

they have multiple x16 physical slots, usually x8 electrical

[06:31:10]

wagnerrp:

or youre going to have to look for some professional level workstation boards

[06:31:41]

ajh:

Ugh.

[06:31:45]

ajh:

Well, that sucks.

[06:32:02]

ajh:

Last think I want is another macpro running my meter overtime.

[06:32:30]

wagnerrp:

does a macpro even have those kinds of ports?

[06:32:47]

ajh:

Yes, every slot is 16x but you have fewer channels to allocate dynamically

[06:34:06]

wagnerrp:

well if all you need is an x4, thats not a problem

[06:34:22]

ajh:

http://ca.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2= . . . ;modelmenu=2 might work if I find a PCI framebuffer.

[06:34:52]

ajh:

assuming those 16x can also do 4x, which apparently not all of them can.

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[06:35:03]

wagnerrp:

all of them can

[06:35:23]

wagnerrp:

its a function of pcie

[06:35:24]

ajh:

Some apparently have bugs, at least according to a search I did a while back

[06:35:42]

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[06:35:50]

ajh:

This looks like it will work and just be a board swap.

[06:36:00]

wagnerrp:

hold on

[06:36:51]

wagnerrp:

there are a couple quad-x16 boards floating about

[06:40:19]

ajh:

Well it is a pure server so using the PCI for framebuffer isn't an issue really other than tracking down a card.

[06:40:42]

wagnerrp:

M3A32-MVP and P5W64 are relatively new boards, both with 4 slots

[06:40:52]

wagnerrp:

the other ones tend to be older chipsets

[06:41:40]

ajh:

Already have the Core2-duo and 800 ram I want to re-use.

[06:41:49]

wagnerrp:

the latter will take those

[06:41:54]

wagnerrp:

dont know what the price is

[06:42:13]

ajh:

186–300

[06:42:39]

ajh:

Which I can deal with, bad timing, I just added up my parts order for the Defender 110 rebuild tonight.

[06:42:46]

ajh:

It was not pretty. :(

[06:45:23]

gravisan:

anyone know how lircd.conf works

[06:45:37]

gravisan:

i am having trouble mapping some scancodes

[06:51:01]

ajh:

wagnerrp, thanks, ordered, should have it Tuesday. :)

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[07:36:05]

jblack:

Awesome. firefox 3.5 (aka firefox 3.1) has ogg theora support. I predict changes to mythweb in the near future. :)

[07:40:51]

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[07:57:37]

hachi:

hey guys

[07:57:49]

hachi:

I've got my master backend spewing: 2009-06–28 00:53:21.188 audio stream changed

[07:57:52]

hachi:

into a log on disk

[07:57:56]

hachi:

as fast as it can

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[08:11:41]

psm321:

hachi: did you try this? http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-732020.html

[08:11:48]

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[08:12:07]

hachi:

the wonderful thing is

[08:12:10]

hachi:

I haven't changed a thing

[08:12:24]

hachi:

I've been running the same version for what... two years now?

[08:12:31]

hachi:

when was .21 released?

[08:12:59]

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[08:13:02]

psm321:

its been out for a while

[08:13:07]

psm321:

over a year i think

[08:13:16]

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[08:13:26]

psm321:

if its a one time thing did you try just restarting the backend?

[08:14:01]

hachi:

I would restart it, but some of the slaves are recording programs

[08:14:05]

psm321:

everything i see seems to indicate that it would be the frontend spewing that sort of message and not backend

[08:14:11]

hachi:

it's hard for me to find time to reboot things

[08:14:19]

psm321:

yeah :-/

[08:14:35]

psm321:

if youre playing anything in a frontend (live or playback), try stopping it

[08:16:00]

** cesman wonders if jblack is going to be coding changes to mythweb... **

[08:16:03]

hachi:

that's the only reason I noticed this

[08:16:11]

hachi:

I can't seem to play things right now

[08:16:15]

hachi:

they're abysmally slow

[08:16:27]

hachi:

I've gone down a lot of checks.... my disks aren't going bad

[08:16:31]

hachi:

they're still performing

[08:16:39]

hachi:

no raid issues

[08:17:22]

psm321:

try playing something recorded from before? that you know has played successfully in the past

[08:17:37]

psm321:

that would tell you whether youre getting bad recordings or some playback issue

[08:17:49]

hachi:

playback issue at this point

[08:17:50]

psm321:

i dont really know the cause/solution btw, just throwing out ideas

[08:17:58]

hachi:

but I thought the master backend was just having an issue

[08:18:06]

hachi:

that's why I was investigating this

[08:19:14]

hachi:

ahh found it

[08:19:17]

hachi:

I had turned on

[08:19:22]

psm321:

sorry, i dont have any more ideas really (well i do, but they would involve delving into the source which would of course require restarting the backend so...)

[08:19:24]

psm321:

oh cool

[08:19:25]

hachi:

'OpenGL vertical sync'

[08:19:34]

hachi:

and apparently that just doesn't work

[08:19:36]

psm321:

ah, good to know

[08:20:48]

psm321:

glad you found it :)

[08:24:36]

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[08:52:23]

Shloosh:

Hello. Is this the anime channel?

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[09:17:49]

maximCH:

hi .. anyone happen to use a DVB-C Technisat CableStar HD2 card?

[09:37:36]

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[10:17:39]

maximCH:

never mind

[10:17:55]

maximCH:

just figured out that the bug with some DVB-T cards still exists... channels get scanned .. but then you can't watch them

[10:18:08]

Dom3:

Hi all, I just wanted to get some advice on setting up an HD terrestrial receiver in the UK. I understand that freesat allows you to receive bbc and itv hd channels. I am confused though as to whether a dvb-s ot s2 will allow me to pick up these channels. Can anyone reccoment a good tuner card for HD viewing? Thanks

[10:18:12]

maximCH:

need to run mythtic.pl script.

[10:18:45]

maximCH:

Dom3: you need a DVB-T card for terrestrial viewing

[10:21:02]

Dom3:

maximCH: sorry for the confusion, I have a dvb-t card, I am planning on adding another tuner for HD channels

[10:21:17]

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[10:22:18]

maximCH:

Dom3: ah.. ok ... I'm afraid I'm of little help then. I don't have any experience with DVB-T

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[10:37:13]

jduggan:

Dom3: you probably want a nova-s

[10:37:18]

jduggan:

they seem to work fine

[10:37:23]

jduggan:

for dvb-s

[10:37:41]

jduggan:

bbc hd works fine, itv hd is a bit of a kludge

[10:38:06]

stuarta:

i've still not found itv hd

[10:39:34]

jduggan:

Do you know if its true that the new $ky HD epg/software can now view ITV HD?

[10:40:36]

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[10:41:17]

stuarta:

no idea

[10:41:22]

stuarta:

no $ky box

[10:42:55]

Dom3:

so I would be fine with a dvb-s card for now, with s2 for the future? I read somewhere about itv HD, but having to modify mythtv in some way

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[12:45:39]

gbee:

IMHO ITVHD isn't worth the hassle

[12:46:20]

gbee:

they hide it behind MHEG for a reason, because it's an embarrassment

[12:46:39]

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[12:46:59]

stuarta:

not cause they hate $ky>#

[12:47:06]

stuarta:

?

[13:02:11]

stoth:

comm skip question. Are the positions saved in the recordedseek table? Because I can't find them, even though the wiki claims they are type 4.

[13:02:34]

janneg:

stoth: they are in recordedmarkup

[13:03:00]

stoth:

huh, wiki needs a tuneup. thx janneg

[13:03:16]

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[13:57:39]

mattygabe:

good morning

[13:59:30]

mattygabe:

so, despite antennaweb.org telling me i cant get digital channels 21.1 and 21.2, the same antenna i have hooked up to my atsc tuner i have hooked up to my dish network VIP HD box, and it gets those channels

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[14:16:22]

weeverio:

any comments on using silicon dust homerun like a tivo with one t.v. set? How do you connect the output to the t.v.

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[14:52:04]

gregL:

weeverio, If you are still around,the HDHR is a network connected device. You have to hook it up to a computer in order for it to work...

[14:53:38]

weeverio:

so why not get a t.v. card and just put it in a computer?

[14:54:16]

stuarta:

that's another option

[14:55:54]

weeverio:

with the homerun you still have to buy a processor, memory, and hard drive before you can make it run?

[14:56:30]

weeverio:

those were the requirements on the silicon dust web site.

[14:59:38]

weeverio:

I was hoping the hdhomerun would save you the trouble of having to build a new computer as a dvr.

[15:00:21]

stuarta:

nope

[15:02:39]

weeverio:

is there any company that sells a cheap box with all the hardware needed to run mythtv; tvcard, noiseless fan, small form factor?

[15:03:02]

stuarta:

not that i know of

[15:05:01]

weeverio:

So the hdhomerun would only be of great benefit if you wanted to watch or record broadcast t.v. on p.c.s on a network. I want to watch or record broadcast t.v. on a t.v.

[15:05:13]

weeverio:

one tv.

[15:06:33]

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[15:06:47]

darkdrgn2k3:

Hey guys, in TRUNK is mythvideo's video scanning broken

[15:06:53]

darkdrgn2k3:

IE: will it NOT remove videos that have been removed?

[15:10:28]

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[15:12:36]

wagnerrp:

it should automatically remove any missing files

[15:12:50]

wagnerrp:

you know you have to hit 'm' and then rescan, right?

[15:12:53]

darkdrgn2k3:

does not seem to be working...

[15:12:55]

darkdrgn2k3:

yes i tried that..

[15:13:02]

wagnerrp:

its not like 0.21 where it automatically scans when you enter the video manager

[15:13:08]

darkdrgn2k3:

yeh i know

[15:13:14]

darkdrgn2k3:

i went into menu and rescan

[15:13:34]

wagnerrp:

then you have to back out, wait some number of seconds to flush the data, and let mythvideo reload

[15:13:37]

darkdrgn2k3:

mythfrontend log noted it FOUND new video (untill u exit and cmo back into myth video it will keep telling u it found the same video) but nothing is removed

[15:13:57]

darkdrgn2k3:

and the unique numbers for downloading meta data

[15:14:02]

darkdrgn2k3:

are they TMDB or IMDB

[15:14:06]

wagnerrp:

imdb

[15:14:20]

wagnerrp:

even using tmdb, it still uses imdb codes

[15:14:26]

darkdrgn2k3:

aaa..

[15:14:33]

wagnerrp:

tmdb allows a imdb lookup

[15:14:35]

darkdrgn2k3:

and if tmdb is not linked to imdb it wont pull properly..

[15:14:51]

wagnerrp:

which causes problems for movies that dont have an associated imdb code

[15:15:14]

wagnerrp:

its part of the tmdb api

[15:15:19]

darkdrgn2k3:

yeh

[15:15:19]

darkdrgn2k3:

i noticed

[15:15:19]

** darkdrgn2k3 looking for how to link in tmdb :) **

[15:15:34]

wagnerrp:

you give it a imdb code, and it returns a tmdb code

[15:15:44]

wagnerrp:

which the tmdb script then searches for data with

[15:16:04]

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[15:16:06]

darkdrgn2k3:

but what if TMDB doesnt have an IMDB code.. i have to use the site to link right

[15:16:20]

wagnerrp:

huh?

[15:16:21]

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[15:16:34]

wagnerrp:

if the movie on tmdb doesnt have an imdb code, the whole system breaks

[15:16:56]

darkdrgn2k3:

yes, but i think there is a way i can "contribute" to tmdb by providing the proper IMDB code...

[15:17:06]

darkdrgn2k3:

anyway thats not myth so never midn that

[15:17:10]

darkdrgn2k3:

another question

[15:17:20]

darkdrgn2k3:

is it just me or is browsing movies ALLOT slower then it used to be

[15:17:23]

wagnerrp:

you must go onto the site, add the imdb code, and then wait several hours/days for the api cache to get flushed out

[15:17:35]

darkdrgn2k3:

(when fanart is used)

[15:17:55]

wagnerrp:

fanart is slow on the first use

[15:18:12]

wagnerrp:

it has to pull a file, rescale it, and then store it in the theme cache

[15:18:20]

darkdrgn2k3:

wagnerrp: first use in session, or first use period

[15:18:23]

wagnerrp:

once its in the memory, its a lot faster

[15:18:45]

darkdrgn2k3:

yeh, i noticed.

[15:18:50]

wagnerrp:

once you have it in the theme cache, its faster than the original pull, but not as fast as when its already in memory

[15:18:54]

weeverio:

Before I put out money for the hardware I tried a test of mythtv running as a guest on virtualbox but I could never get the Schedules Direct scedules of programs to show up.

[15:19:31]

darkdrgn2k3:

wagnerrp: hmm yeh i noticed.. any way to speed it up, cause its still painfullly slow scrolling through several pages

[15:19:56]

wagnerrp:

well if its in the theme cache, it should go considerably faster

[15:20:10]

darkdrgn2k3:

wagnerrp: hmm not really....

[15:20:12]

wagnerrp:

unless like me, your themecache is stored on a disk across the network

[15:20:17]

darkdrgn2k3:

wagnerrp: slightly faster.

[15:20:20]

darkdrgn2k3:

wagnerrp: nop localy

[15:20:39]

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[15:20:44]

phunyguy:

aloha

[15:21:08]

wagnerrp:

anyway, thats something thats going to have to be worked on, its slow and everyone knows its slow

[15:21:10]

darkdrgn2k3:

about 2 seconds per item

[15:21:22]

darkdrgn2k3:

yeh.. just makeing sure its not me :)

[15:21:34]

wagnerrp:

yeah, 2 seconds sounds about right

[15:21:39]

darkdrgn2k3:

also looks like mythvideo plugin for mythweb is broken

[15:21:45]

darkdrgn2k3:

or is it just me

[15:21:50]

wagnerrp:

works fine for me

[15:21:54]

wagnerrp:

whats your problem?

[15:22:00]

darkdrgn2k3:

ok.. cause mine things "hostname" is set to "m"

[15:22:05]

darkdrgn2k3:

insterad of mythSRV

[15:22:22]

darkdrgn2k3:

it also wrongly assumed my COVERs dir

[15:22:35]

darkdrgn2k3:

it did the symlink.. but then appended the absolute path to the sym link

[15:22:57]

darkdrgn2k3:

ie: absolute is /mythtv/Video/.posters

[15:23:04]

wagnerrp:

how about i say 'mythvideo on mythweb kinds works'

[15:23:20]

darkdrgn2k3:

wagnerrp: where does hostname get set (maybe i can kind help :-P)

[15:23:38]

darkdrgn2k3:

(i knew i was getting into lots of blood and goer with bleeding edge :))

[15:23:40]

wagnerrp:

a couple months back, mythvideo got moves over to storage groups

[15:23:46]

wagnerrp:

have you set those up yet?

[15:23:51]

darkdrgn2k3:

no....

[15:24:03]

wagnerrp:

there should be new storage groups for videos, artwork, fanart, whatever....

[15:24:18]

darkdrgn2k3:

mythtv-setup right...

[15:24:19]

wagnerrp:

movies and pictures are no longer mounted locally

[15:24:21]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[15:24:23]

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[15:24:26]

wagnerrp:

but rather pulled over the network

[15:24:27]

darkdrgn2k3:

wow...

[15:24:38]

darkdrgn2k3:

never noticed that

[15:24:39]

darkdrgn2k3:

thanx

[15:24:51]

gbee:

storage group stuff works alongside the old local mounted stuff for now, no need to switch to storage groups for it to work

[15:24:54]

wagnerrp:

everything works fine for playback, but the setup tools are caught in the middle ground

[15:25:10]

darkdrgn2k3:

hmm

[15:25:14]

wagnerrp:

if you have both set, you get duplicate videos because they exist in both places

[15:25:16]

darkdrgn2k3:

then i should prbably wait a bit...

[15:25:32]

gbee:

aye, it's in transition

[15:25:42]

wagnerrp:

mythweb (at least the last time i updated it) doesnt support this at all

[15:25:52]

darkdrgn2k3:

10–4...

[15:25:52]

wagnerrp:

you see the videos and can edit the settings

[15:26:14]

wagnerrp:

but you cannot download the videos, you cannot access the artwork, and you dont get a nice directory structure

[15:26:16]

darkdrgn2k3:

you guys seem to like overhaul .22 .. :)

[15:26:29]

darkdrgn2k3:

nice job... or at least nice ideas for now :-P

[15:26:39]

wagnerrp:

instead all thousands of your videos are in one folder, complete with several seconds of load time and several hundred megs of browser memory

[15:26:55]

darkdrgn2k3:

its funny myth video web shoes some duplicates :-S

[15:27:19]

darkdrgn2k3:

but only some ?!?!

[15:27:32]

wagnerrp:

also, the art grabbers, still insert images into the database with the full path, rather than the storage group path

[15:27:55]

wagnerrp:

so you have to go back and string/replace those manually

[15:28:02]

darkdrgn2k3:

wish there wa sa way to just download all the fanart and posters without goign to every single one :-0P

[15:28:08]

wagnerrp:

or just keep the NFS stores mounted so the frontend can grab the art

[15:28:45]

wagnerrp:

you mean some sort of batch download? automatically choose the first file and run through the whole directory?

[15:29:53]

wagnerrp:

might be nice for a first setup, but its not really needed for just adding a couple extra files as you rip them

[15:33:10]

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[15:34:00]

darkdrgn2k3:

true...

[15:36:53]

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[15:37:40]

darkdrgn2k3:

wow thats bazr

[15:38:03]

darkdrgn2k3:

when i try playing a dolby digita signal

[15:38:24]

darkdrgn2k3:

i get about 10 seconds of "digital as analog" static.. before it swiches over to sorround sound!

[15:44:01]

RDV_Linux:

darkdrgn2k3: I do not know if this is relevant to you but here is a tmdb.pl patch that uses TMDB numbers instead of IMDB numbers. It also comes with a bash script to convert all your mythtv db video IMDB numbers to TMDBs. You need to be running trunk. http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6467

[15:47:09]

RDV_Linux:

darkdrgn2k3: If you are looking for a way to mass update will your artwork see this script. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Jamu

[15:49:20]

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[15:50:58]

darkdrgn2k3:

thanx

[15:52:02]

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darkdrgn2k3:

hey, does the gl Fade in/out take up allot of cpu?

[18:00:50]

sphery:

only if you use software-based OpenGL (i.e. Mesa) because you don't have real video card drivers (in which case you should just use the Qt painter, and not the OpenGL painter)

[18:03:20]

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[18:03:50]

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[18:04:00]

Medicineuk:

hi all

[18:04:33]

Medicineuk:

could any one tell me if the WinTV HVR-980 is supported by Myth TV?

[18:05:49]

wagnerrp:

950?

[18:07:47]

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[18:07:50]

Medicineuk:

I think it's a 980 it's an Eyetv Hybrid but there just a WinTV HVR-980 rebranded

[18:08:04]

Medicineuk:

well so I have read

[18:08:38]

wagnerrp:

huh... there is a 980

[18:10:15]

wagnerrp:

well search linuxtv.org, see if its supported

[18:12:01]

Medicineuk:

Sounds like it is the 950

[18:12:24]

wagnerrp:

there is no mention of the 980 on the hauppauge website

[18:12:46]

wagnerrp:

im guessing someone somewhere along the line hit an 8 instead of a 5 in the keypad on some forum comment

[18:12:50]

wagnerrp:

and it spread from there

[18:13:00]

Dagmar:

Probably

[18:14:14]

wagnerrp:

ksplice is offering rebootless kernel security updates

[18:14:30]

wagnerrp:

how do you manage that one...

[18:14:35]

Medicineuk:

maybe or there basically the samething but the 80 manufactured more recently

[18:14:55]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: By assuming your users hasn't changed the shipping kernel, and scripting kexec calls

[18:15:16]

wagnerrp:

the only way you could patch an in-use kernel would be to literally altering the binary in memory

[18:15:23]

Dagmar:

kexec

[18:15:34]

wagnerrp:

so its not rebootless

[18:15:43]

wagnerrp:

you just drop back to kexec before rebooting

[18:15:53]

wagnerrp:

rather than all the way back to the BIOS

[18:15:53]

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[18:15:53]

Dagmar:

You can't like, do that and keep the MySQL/Apache stuff running, but it doesn't require anything that would normally be called a reboot

[18:16:03]

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[18:16:20]

wagnerrp:

you shutdown everything, unload one kernel, and load the next one in

[18:16:32]

wagnerrp:

so you still have to take the system offline

[18:16:40]

wagnerrp:

how is that advantageous from rebooting?

[18:16:52]

wagnerrp:

i mean its probably a difference of 10 seconds

[18:18:55]

wagnerrp:

there needs to be a slashdot comment tag for retarded

[18:22:22]

jduggan:

wagnerrp: more than 10seconds, servers with big raid cards etc take forever to reboot, it can save like up to 5 minutes with big arrays

[18:28:34]

wagnerrp:

yeah, you have to wait for the controller to run through staggered startup on a bunch of drives but that shouldnt take much more than 30 seconds regardless of the number of drives

[18:28:56]

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[18:33:25]

wagnerrp:

ugh... and i cant moderate and comment in the same article

[18:34:34]

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[18:35:18]

Dagmar:

OYAH THAT GAI IS AWSUM HE NEEDS MODDING UP

[18:35:49]

Dagmar:

These are the things you'll see modded +5, Informative if they allowed you to comment and mod in the same article

[18:35:50]

wagnerrp:

some guy said 'gigaflop' has no unit of time

[18:36:05]

wagnerrp:

someone replied 'sure it does', and posted the wikipedia article to flops

[18:36:15]

Dagmar:

Yeah, that would be a case where it's sad there's no modding down do to complete idiocy

[18:36:15]

wagnerrp:

and got moderated +3 insightful

[18:36:29]

Dagmar:

s/do/due/;

[18:37:01]

Dagmar:

Yeah, the main complaint I have about Slashdot's moderation system is that it tends to highlight mediocrity along with excellence

[18:37:18]

wagnerrp:

the other was saying power consumption in a computer doesnt have to be heat, it could be stored in potential energy, like lifting up a piano on a block and tackle

[18:37:31]

wagnerrp:

of course that was an AC, so no point modding there

[18:37:41]

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[18:37:41]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

[18:37:54]

Dagmar:

...cuz if you were do long division in a post, some retard with modeerator points would find it informative, even if the article you were commenting on exclusively focused on soda pop.

[18:38:38]

Dagmar:

"OH man... look at him doing math. That stuff is hard... I should mod him up."

[18:39:08]

wagnerrp:

you were calculating the probability for bubble generation based off estimated particulate count and bottle roughness

[18:39:14]

gbee:

heh, someone hasn't been keeping up

[18:39:35]

wagnerrp:

seems Billy Mays is dead

[18:39:46]

sphery:

really?

[18:40:08]

sphery:

wow.

[18:40:26]

wagnerrp:

i can live without MJ... but without Billy Mays, theres nothing more to wait for

[18:40:32]

kormoc:

http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/ce . . . idahome.html

[18:40:42]

kormoc:

the week of death eh?

[18:42:02]

sphery:

Mays was on board a US Airways flight that blew out its front tires as it landed at a Tampa airport on Saturday, MyFOXTampa.com reported. ... none of the 138 passengers and five crew members were injured in the incident ... Authorities have not said whether Mays' death was related to the incident.

[18:42:10]

wagnerrp:

apparently he got hit on the head that afternoon by falling luggage from a rough landing

[18:42:21]

wagnerrp:

i think there was a CSI episode about that

[18:42:53]

wagnerrp:

guy got punched in the head, died several hours later from a cerebral hemorrhage

[18:43:06]

sphery:

yeah, I remember, now

[18:43:18]

sphery:

was trying to remember an ep with falling luggage

[18:43:36]

wagnerrp:

they found him bloated after spending several days dead in a hot bath

[18:44:03]

sphery:

I still haven't decided whether to watch the episodes after Grissom left... Heard bad things about them. (I've watched up to Larry's first ep.)

[18:44:09]

wagnerrp:

so whats going to happen with the show 'Pitchmen'?

[18:44:22]

sphery:

good question

[18:44:24]

wagnerrp:

is the other guy just going to continue without him?

[18:44:42]

kormoc:

it wouldn't work methinks

[18:45:06]

sphery:

"We have just announced a project to build a complimentary frontend interface for MythTV."

[18:45:11]

sphery:

guess gbee can relax, now

[18:45:20]

wagnerrp:

who has?

[18:45:24]

sphery:

no more pressure to finish up that mythui junk

[18:45:30]

** wagnerrp checks the mailing list **

[18:45:35]

sphery:

-dev list

[18:45:38]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/mythtouchmote

[18:45:47]

sphery:

likely not focused on real computers, though

[18:46:00]

wagnerrp:

looks like its just a remote control

[18:46:12]

wagnerrp:

hence the 'complimentary' rather than 'replacement'

[18:46:22]

sphery:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-dev/2009-June/065342.html

[18:47:02]

Dagmar:

"The designer is willing to pay a whole five bucks for it's creation by a developer"

[18:47:03]

wagnerrp:

might do something like give an on-remote menu to recordings/videos

[18:47:22]

sphery:

heh, the link got lowercased... real link seems to be http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTouchMote

[18:47:24]

Dagmar:

"The designer is hoping that more people will offer a few nickels, and will be sure to continue taking credit."

[18:48:30]

sphery:

So, it's going to be touchscreen, with playback support and with a replacement for MythWeb.

[18:48:45]

kormoc:

Yay! Less for me to worry bout

[18:48:49]

sphery:

Guess all that's left is the backend, so stop working on everything else (frontend/plugins/mythweb)

[18:48:58]

** kormoc is sitll waiting for the perl/python/ruby mythweb replacement to be done **

[18:50:06]

Dagmar:

Somehow I get the feeling that mister Richard E Morton has no idea how many hours his proposal would require

[18:50:18]

sphery:

about $5 worth, right?

[18:50:26]

Dagmar:

Probably

[18:50:34]

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[18:50:44]

sphery:

probably should just do a gstreamer plugin and call Myth done.

[18:50:54]

Dagmar:

If it were a meaningful amount of dough. he'd be saying so, instead of saying "a bounty" and hinting that he feels other people shoudl chip in

[18:51:40]

Dagmar:

I'm almost scared to look at his pdf

[18:51:59]

sphery:

I didn't go that far. Just the wiki page.

[18:52:32]

kormoc:

it's actually surprisingly complete

[18:52:59]

Dagmar:

It's suprisingly pointy-haired, too tho

[18:53:22]

Dagmar:

This person is not an engineer, they're either marketing or middle-management as their day job

[18:54:34]

Dagmar:

This is easily five-figures' worth of deliverables he's put in his PDF

[18:55:09]

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[18:55:18]

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[18:56:06]

Dagmar:

...and unfortunately a lot of what he's put in here appears to be stuff that riders of the short bus might miss, but it basically UI 101...

[18:56:23]

sphery:

I have to wonder who the "we" is in "We have just announced..."

[18:56:51]

sphery:

perhaps the royal we...

[18:57:04]

Dagmar:

"All button presses should be capable (based on template design) to provide button press visual feedback. All links and buttons have at least three states and images or text color should be able to be changed based on those states."

[18:57:14]

Garbanzo3:

not "we" – it's "We"

[18:57:32]

sphery:

heh--oops... sorry, Sire.

[18:57:44]

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[18:57:48]

Dagmar:

sphery: It's "we" as in "it's my idea so I'm going to take credit for it"

[18:58:03]

sphery:

ah, yeah, pointy-haired boss we

[18:58:09]

Dagmar:

Yep

[19:00:40]

Dagmar:

hopefully he won't be too hurt when only the wild-eyed fourteen-year-olds take him seriously

[19:05:10]

Dibblah:

WTH? "I can't afford a license for inkscape" style diagrams?

[19:05:28]

Dagmar:

heh

[19:05:48]

sphery:

from the design doc?

[19:06:07]

Dibblah:

Yes. Real pen and paper scanned in type... Things.

[19:07:05]

Dibblah:

This has taken some time to draft. I wonder why it's been done.

[19:08:21]

Dagmar:

Because he's middle management

[19:08:26]

Dagmar:

This is what middle managers do

[19:08:33]

Dagmar:

They write long and winding "wish lists"

[19:08:50]

Dagmar:

Look closely at that PDF. It was generated with Lotus Symphony Documents

[19:09:05]

Dagmar:

He's doing the same thing as he does as his boring little desk job

[19:09:31]

Dagmar:

...where he probably dictates to people what color the pencils their company makes should be.

[19:09:38]

sphery:

I'd have thought the ink and paper would have cost more than an inkscape license

[19:10:26]

Dagmar:

WTF

[19:10:31]

Dagmar:

Did I miss something?

[19:10:43]

Dagmar:

That's twice now one of you has referred to an inkscape licence

[19:10:54]

Dagmar:

Some kind of inside joke?

[19:11:21]

sphery:

seems the diagrams in the doc are scanned in drawings

[19:11:32]

Dagmar:

The scribbled ones are

[19:11:45]

Dagmar:

That nokia graphic is clip art from somewhere else

[19:12:11]

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[19:21:11]

jblack:

Noooooooo! Not billy mays too. Who's next, shamwow guy?

[19:21:48]

Dagmar:

We can only hope

[19:22:36]

Dagmar:

I'm trying to convince a coworker that we need to float a rumor that he died from an allergic reaction to something in his off-brand Rogaine

[19:25:03]

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[19:29:52]

AndyCap:

Viagrogaine?

[19:30:06]

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[19:30:09]

** juski checks the channel topic.... **

[19:30:15]

dvdjimmy:

dear all

[19:30:38]

dvdjimmy:

I have a strange problem here

[19:31:11]

dvdjimmy:

my system mythbuntu 9.04 is automatically adding dvb-s transports but I have only a dvb-c card installed

[19:31:38]

dvdjimmy:

this leads to problems when I want to tune to a channel as the frequency is not dvb-c capable :(

[19:31:45]

dvdjimmy:

any idea why this can happen?

[19:32:43]

juski:

other than importing a channels.conf file that you shouldn't be using, not really

[19:35:35]

juski:

unless of course wherever you got the distro image from already had a ready-rolled database containing the dvb-s channels you think you've ended up with. Very unlikely

[19:36:36]

juski:

best course of action is always to scan for channels yourself in mythtv-setup – assuming your tuner hardware has been proven to work on that system already (on that flavour of linux)

[19:40:47]

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[19:51:02]

juski:

heh. you know who didn't make it to #1 in the UK singles chart after all. As if record sales would help a dead guy anyway

[19:51:42]

sphery:

dvdjimmy: perhaps you've set up DiSEQC (sp?) stuff on your DVB-not-S card, so it's doing DVB-S stuff?

[19:53:01]

gbee:

juski: helps his creditors at least :)

[19:53:37]

juski:

gbee: lol

[20:00:57]

dvdjimmy:

sorry

[20:00:58]

juski:

ah so THAT is what the green avatars on tweeter are all about. Hmmm. Changing icons can topple despotic leaders now? whoah!

[20:01:00]

dvdjimmy:

now I am back

[20:01:45]

dvdjimmy:

juski: my hardware is able to work with linux

[20:01:52]

dvdjimmy:

I tried that already with VDR

[20:02:25]

juski:

yes, but on that flavour of linux? Not all distros ship with the same kernel ya know ;)

[20:02:56]

dvdjimmy:

hmm..I think so: at least with dmesg I see my card active and selectable in mythtv-setup

[20:03:20]

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[20:03:33]

juski:

as for the channels issue.. could be what sphery said or you've imported a channels.conf file that you shouldn't have

[20:03:35]

dvdjimmy:

like +sphery already mentioned. I really did set up the diseqc stuff as well for c band

[20:04:02]

juski:

on a dvb-c card? oops

[20:04:08]

dvdjimmy:

yep

[20:04:19]

dvdjimmy:

ok, so I will try to delete all this stuff first

[20:04:23]

dvdjimmy:

then update the database

[20:04:30]

dvdjimmy:

and then setup the stuff again

[20:04:59]

juski:

should just be able to delete the tuner & re-add it

[20:05:06]

dvdjimmy:

ok

[20:06:00]

juski:

maybe worth trying to change the diseqc setting first – maybe you don't even have to delete the tuner

[20:06:08]

dvdjimmy:

its no problem

[20:06:38]

dvdjimmy:

be right back

[20:08:09]

sphery:

dvdjimmy: best way to delete it (to make sure you get everything) is: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[20:14:42]

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[20:18:24]

juski:

almost woke up there with that "NEW! MYTHTV! INTERFACE! ANNOUNCED!!!!!!!!!!!!" post

[20:18:47]

juski:

don't worry, it's yet another mobile device remote thingy. Yawn

[20:20:29]

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[20:20:50]

juski:

Oh ****ing hell. "At present MythTouchMote is just the concept for a user interface. A bounty is being offered for it's creation by a developer. "

[20:20:53]

juski:

ROFLMAO

[20:21:17]

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[20:24:23]

clever:

i dont think he even knows of the telnet control

[20:24:28]

clever:

which does half of what he is asking for

[20:27:20]

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[20:28:32]

kormoc:

which is why he said the telnet control won't do all of what he wanted

[20:28:42]

kormoc:

it would help if you bothered to read his documents...

[20:29:00]

clever:

i didnt read the pdf but i skimmed over the 1st post

[20:29:11]

kormoc:

you skimmed over 40 words eh?

[20:29:17]

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[20:29:31]

** kormoc wonders if he even read 10 of them **

[20:29:40]

clever:

it sounds like a large remote with clearly labled buttons

[20:29:56]

kormoc:

yeah, cause remotes with clearly labeled buttons play back video on them

[20:30:14]

clever:

i beleive he mentioned the video going to the tv, from the other box

[20:30:27]

kormoc:

only on one of his user cases

[20:30:56]

clever:

'front-end device plays back the media and a tablet provides the control'

[20:31:18]

** kormoc points out the fact that there's a pdf full of more info that you didn't bother to read and he did **

[20:31:30]

dvdjimmy:

ok, right now I am setting it up

[20:31:38]

clever:

yes i saw the pdf link, and didnt think it was worth the bother

[20:31:56]

kormoc:

so then stop talking bout it as you don't have any idea what his idea really is

[20:32:27]

dvdjimmy:

which channel frequency table should I choose in general settings?

[20:32:38]

dvdjimmy:

I am living in germany with dvb-c

[20:32:42]

dvdjimmy:

so europe-west?

[20:32:54]

dvdjimmy:

as there is no europe-west-cable or something like this

[20:34:29]

juski:

well, say this much for the guy, at least he went to the trouble to produce a description of what a frontend does

[20:34:57]

juski:

dvdjimmy: germany is in the West of Europe, so erm ;)

[20:35:04]

kormoc:

I don't like the fact that he announced it in a way that made it sound official and asked for money...

[20:35:22]

dvdjimmy:

ok, I just thought that this might be in relation to my transport problem !

[20:35:36]

juski:

dvdjimmy: you may need to do a tuned scan, so you'll need to know details for a transponder

[20:36:01]

dvdjimmy:

ok

[20:36:06]

dvdjimmy:

give me 1 minute

[20:36:12]

dvdjimmy:

then I have setup everything

[20:36:17]

dvdjimmy:

and are ready for a scan

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[20:52:51]

dvdjimm1:

ok

[20:53:21]

dvdjimm1:

now I have setup everything and now I am in Input Connections

[20:53:50]

dvdjimm1:

here I pick my video source and leave everything else as default

[20:54:04]

dvdjimm1:

and go for "scan for channels"

[20:55:00]

dvdjimm1:

In Scan Configuration I set the scan type to "Full Scan(Tuned)" and set an initial frequency of 394000000 and a symbol rate of 6900000

[20:55:27]

dvdjimm1:

this frequency is for sure a channel which I can receive :)

[20:56:03]

dvdjimm1:

Its the same thing again now

[20:56:49]

dvdjimm1:

I just do this scan and suddenly I see that during scanning I can see Network ASTRA Processing, Network Net ID0x1 Processing

[20:57:24]

dvdjimm1:

and the transports are once again filled with dvb-s stuff :(

[20:57:31]

dvdjimm1:

whats going on there?

[21:01:54]

dvdjimm1:

ah....its working somehow now

[21:02:02]

dvdjimm1:

I have LIveTV :)

[21:02:25]

dvdjimm1:

but have absolutely no clue what I did different compared to the last 20 times :)

[21:08:20]

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[21:58:10]

kormoc:

Woah, Ed McMahon died on the 23rd, it really is the week of death

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[22:33:07]

juski:

so, it would seem some cable companies are being a bit lazy rebroadcasting from satellite feeds ;-)

[22:33:24]

juski:

unless Astra also operate cable networks!

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[22:54:04]

mythuser:

Good evening.

[22:54:19]

mythuser:

I'd like to know how to disable timeshifting in mythtv.

[22:54:36]

kormoc:

You don't

[22:54:39]

mythuser:

the disc activity slows down live tv.

[22:54:48]

mythuser:

hu

[22:54:58]

juski:

you don't, and furthermore you can't

[22:55:04]

mythuser:

hmm.

[22:55:09]

mythuser:

what yould i do then.

[22:55:21]

juski:

just watch *plain* *old* teevee the old way

[22:55:24]

kormoc:

live with it or find a different project?

[22:55:25]

mythuser:

i can watch tv very good with vlc from /dev/videoX for example.

[22:55:32]

juski:

so? use that then

[22:55:47]

juski:

or be smart & stop watching live tv altogether :)

[22:55:57]

mythuser:

i hoped for a little more support than "eat or die"...

[22:56:14]

juski:

oh wait. let us just completely rewrite mythtv for you then

[22:56:17]

kormoc:

What did you expect?

[22:56:35]

mythuser:

i expected a little help with alternatives then.

[22:56:47]

kormoc:

It was a design decision, covered in the FAQ why it's done that way, and it's core to the code

[22:56:49]

mythuser:

is myth not able to stream from /dev/videoX then?

[22:56:55]

mythuser:

ah

[22:56:55]

mythuser:

ok

[22:57:03]

juski:

not if you want to pause/rewind it, no

[22:57:04]

mythuser:

so it is always recording to disc?

[22:57:06]

kormoc:

yes

[22:57:11]

mythuser:

hmm. bad.

[22:57:12]

mythuser:

:|

[22:57:27]

mythuser:

i don't need to pause or reqind.

[22:57:28]

juski:

and if you don't want to use timeshifting, just stick to using 'dumb' teevee software

[22:57:29]

kormoc:

not if you want to use it as a pvr, meaning pausing, rewinding, etc

[22:57:44]

juski:

saves everybody a load of work :)

[22:57:45]

kormoc:

you could always setup a ram disk

[22:57:46]

mythuser:

i'd like to use it for recording.

[22:58:05]

juski:

a lot of mythtv users only ever use live tv for testing their tuners

[22:58:10]

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[22:58:14]

mythuser:

i thought of a ramdisk, yes, but i'm not sure about the capacity.

[22:58:15]

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[22:58:26]

juski:

everything else, they set up recordings for in advance & watch whatever, whenever :)

[22:58:30]

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[22:58:51]

mythuser:

while running live tv, my disk gets 2 GB in several minutes... i only have 512 MB of ram installed on that PC.

[23:00:06]

juski:

well, if mythtv worked the way you wanted it to, a good few people would probably moan that they kept forgetting to enable timeshift mode ;-)

[23:00:20]

mythuser:

yeah, true.

[23:00:28]

juski:

wow that was a great goal, let me just rewind... ARGHHHH!

[23:00:42]

juski:

;-)

[23:00:45]

mythuser:

i tried so many alternatives to windows and myth seemsed really good.

[23:00:53]

juski:

it's very good

[23:01:05]

mythuser:

all the others distros and programs didn't support my hardware or simply were shit. :]

[23:01:11]

juski:

just depends on your expectations meeting up with what it's designed to do

[23:01:26]

ajh:

designed?

[23:01:26]

mythuser:

i just wanted to use it as a recorder...

[23:01:38]

mythuser:

and dvd player.

[23:01:42]

mythuser:

that's it.

[23:01:42]

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[23:01:52]

mythuser:

DVD works on all distros, of course.

[23:01:56]

juski:

and live tv viewing. you forgot that bit

[23:02:05]

mythuser:

hmm.

[23:02:24]

juski:

you could always try Freevo

[23:02:26]

mythuser:

for live tv i could use the tv itself.

[23:02:51]

juski:

but we're not in the business of recommending other programs we've never used here :)

[23:03:01]

mythuser:

;)

[23:03:15]

juski:

mythuser: I first set up mythtv to record occasional shows – catching overspill from my VCR

[23:03:45]

juski:

3 weeks later, the VCR was stored away & I was suddenly no longer rushing to the TV at X o'clock to catch my shows

[23:04:24]

juski:

haven't really watched live tv at home in about 5 years now.

[23:05:00]

mythuser:

ahh that's so sad myth doesn't run the way i'd like it. :(

[23:05:00]

juski:

and even 'the big game' which you 'have' to see live can be a scheduled recording. Nobody says you have to watch it next week ;-)

[23:05:34]

juski:

not watching livetv, what I call wasting your life, can save you a hell of a lot of time

[23:05:55]

sphery:

"waste-your-life TV"

[23:06:24]

sphery:

I still hate it when people say, "But it's stupid to record the news. It's not like it will be relevant next week..."

[23:06:31]

** juski has no fond memories of browsing a cable box's EPG to find something to watch, only to find that by the time he spotted something, it was 10 minutes past the start already **

[23:06:48]

sphery:

exactly... if you don't get to watch it all, why watch it.

[23:07:01]

kormoc:

plus no commflagging on live tv

[23:07:13]

juski:

plus no timestretch/time compression on livetv

[23:07:19]

sphery:

(and with that, I'm about to start watching Virtuality--which got interrupted by a power blink during recording, so I'm missing about 2 minutes of it)

[23:07:26]

mythuser:

aaah wait a minute.

[23:07:27]

sphery:

yeah, timestretch is great

[23:07:38]

juski:

my wife has saved *days* of her life already :D

[23:07:48]

mythuser:

while recording a certain movie for example, it does not timeshift?

[23:07:55]

kormoc:

if it doesn't record to the disk, no press R to store it as a recording for when you have to leave

[23:08:17]

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[23:08:23]

kormoc:

mythuser, well, during live playback, it's still on disk, but you can't skip forward, it's not there yet

[23:08:50]

mythuser:

hmmm

[23:08:50]

sphery:

If I want to watch a show "live" and it's a 1-hr show, I'll /never/ start watching until 20min after it starts. If it's one I'm watching on timestretch, I'll figure it will take me 34mins@1.25x or 28mins@1.5x or 24mins@1.75x, so I'll start no earlier than that amount of time before the end of the show.

[23:09:12]

sphery:

(the 20mins into it for 1.0x is for skipping commercials)

[23:09:36]

juski:

20 mins of ads in 1 hour? !

[23:09:51]

kormoc:

average is 9 minutes per 30

[23:09:53]

sphery:

here in the US, that's generally an understatement

[23:09:58]

juski:

actually, come to think.. wife's soaps have 8 mins per 30 mins

[23:10:24]

sphery:

5yrs ago the average was 42min of content for a 1-hr show. Most are under 40mins, now.

[23:10:32]

kormoc:

the whole idea that I can watch 3 30 minute shows per hour vs 2 is worth waiting a bit to watch

[23:10:36]

juski:

not too fussed about automagical commercial skipping since the 4 min skip button works perfectly :)

[23:10:43]

sphery:

(and that's counting all the "last time on..." and "tune in next week" stuff)

[23:10:58]

juski:

my wife's soaps are all on at least 1.2x timestretch :D

[23:11:16]

juski:

so 30 mins minus 8 mins / 1.2 ... so much time saved!

[23:11:28]

sphery:

kormoc: at 1.75x--and with sufficient concentration--you can watch two 1-hr shows in an hour

[23:11:36]

sphery:

but you /really/ have to pay attention at that speed :)

[23:11:37]

gbee:

juski: aye, but have you noticed how they've started putting the 'sponsored by' crap after the 4 minute break?

[23:11:46]

** juski used to watch TNG on 2x for purely comedic effect **

[23:11:55]

sphery:

that would be good

[23:12:03]

gbee:

so the ads are closer to 4:20 these days

[23:12:13]

kormoc:

mmm... 420....

[23:12:17]

juski:

who's grumbling about 20 secs? ;-)

[23:12:32]

juski:

nigh as damnit perfect on a lot of recordings

[23:12:45]

gbee:

juski: I am, because my 4 minute jumps don't work ;)

[23:13:07]

juski:

and being able to fine tune the jump by playback groups is nifty if you want to be anal about it :)

[23:13:31]

juski:

you could have a playback group per show, each with their own custom skip amount :D

[23:13:37]

sphery:

I was a bit behind on a show and had mentioned to a friend that I would watch the finale as it aired. I didn't catch up on the previous episodes until 1-hr into the 2-hr finale, but I actually finished the finale before she did. :)

[23:13:38]

gbee:

heh, true

[23:14:01]

juski:

sometimes the worst thing about mythtv is totally also the best thing about it ;)

[23:14:38]

sphery:

or you could just move to the US where commflagging is so amazingly accurate :)

[23:14:55]

sphery:

(of course, then you have the tons of commercials and all, too :( )

[23:15:12]

sphery:

and no Coronation Street or whatever :)

[23:15:27]

juski:

somebody get me the forms I need to emigrate!

[23:15:31]

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[23:15:43]

sphery:

:)

[23:15:54]

gbee:

yeah, but NTSC ... eww

[23:16:05]

sphery:

but ATSC!

[23:16:10]

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[23:16:22]

juski:

we may not have HD all over here yet but when we get it, it's not gonna be lowish bitrate mpeg2

[23:16:22]

sphery:

(as long as you don't care about pay TV)

[23:16:41]

sphery:

yeah, I really think that you guys did the HDTV change right

[23:16:41]

gbee:

that's adorable

[23:17:14]

sphery:

we should have switched to digital 480p--which has been cheap to decode for years--with good displays (i.e. 720p or 1080p) as monitors (no tuners)

[23:17:15]

juski:

though by the time OFCOM are done, maybe it won't look any better

[23:18:18]

sphery:

then, as tech progressed, we could have had high-quality, high-compression, easy-to-decode HDTV without all the "pay for tech that doesn't yet exist" expense/compromise we ended up with

[23:18:30]

ajh:

IP switched video would be the right way.

[23:18:38]

juski:

Conservative MP was talking about scrapping OFCOM last week IIRC. Could make me swing my vote over

[23:18:45]

ajh:

With multicast multiplex.

[23:19:02]

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[23:19:04]

juski:

ajh: dream on. Not without the need for propriatary tech at the viewing end

[23:19:09]

sphery:

of course, with the US goverment spending 10's of billions of $ to pay for digital TV converter boxes for all those cable TV subscribers who heard, "government" and "free", doing 2 transitions would have cost us in other ways...

[23:19:19]

ajh:

juski, it is all proprietary now.

[23:19:44]

juski:

ajh: usually when people say 'IPTV' they mean point a browser at, 'free' TV :)

[23:19:48]

ajh:

Micropayment sensitive and on-demand would kill off the piracy issue if done right.

[23:19:58]

juski:

yup

[23:20:03]

ajh:

and all those channels nobody wants to pay for would die.

[23:20:05]

ajh:

finally.

[23:20:06]

juski:

come the revolution

[23:20:11]

juski:

channels would die

[23:20:14]

juski:

period

[23:20:24]

juski:

it'd all be about shows for the most part then

[23:20:31]

ajh:

true.

[23:20:42]

sphery:

I found it interesting on the TV in the UK page on wikipedia that they mentioned a new transmission tech by BBC that doubles effective bandwidth by broadcasting 2 signals in slightly different directions (last para of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_terrestr . . . n_technology )

[23:21:00]

ajh:

It will happen eventually, and it will happen on-line, the broadcast world will go down kicking and screaming right after newspapers :)

[23:21:02]

juski:

yeah I heard about that

[23:21:13]

juski:

dirac kicks ass as a compression tech too

[23:21:14]

sphery:

interesting, but wonder how well it works (as it would put a lot more cost into the tuners)

[23:21:42]

ajh:

asics are cheap.

[23:21:57]

ajh:

The reason things are expensive now is we are using general purpose hardware.

[23:22:08]

juski:

way things are going, we've got DVB-T rolled out almost all over, and zillions of 'HD ready' TVs with builtin dvb-t (SDTV) tuners. And now they're talking about launching 'real' HDTV over DVB-T2 – which existing receivers won't be able to tune.

[23:22:14]

ajh:

a blackfin based tuner/decoder would cost perhaps $5–10

[23:22:47]

juski:

thereby rendering even brand new 'HDTV' sets pretty much useless other than for external HD sources & SDTV. Oh dear oh dear

[23:22:47]

sphery:

IMHO, the whole idea of putting tuners into TV's is flawed for exactly that reason

[23:23:03]

sphery:

ajh: and the sensitivity required for spatial multiplexing wouldn't add cost?

[23:23:18]

juski:

sphery: ok then, get the manufacturers to agree on a standard backplane for a slot-in thingy :)

[23:23:29]

ajh:

not really, not in those kind of numbers.

[23:23:35]

sphery:

or, just use STB's, like 90% of the people in the US do

[23:23:43]

sphery:

(i.e. cable and satellite TV users)

[23:23:59]

juski:

sphery: in other news, new electronics fab tech allows multi freq tuners to be made much more simply. Wooooo!

[23:24:10]

sphery:

besides, TV's are 1940's tech... monitors are /so/ much more flexible

[23:24:11]

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[23:24:26]

ajh:

sphery, uh no.

[23:24:32]

jblack:

huh. what's this mythstream thing?

[23:24:32]

ajh:

Analog is more flexible by far.

[23:24:38]

juski:

Mrs Bloggs doesn't like lots of boxes under the telly though

[23:24:44]

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[23:24:54]

juski:

Mrs Bloggs wants it all built in. no messy wires!

[23:24:54]

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[23:25:06]

juski:

easier to dust around, for one thing

[23:25:08]

juski:

:D

[23:25:10]

jblack:

so get a big cardboard boox....

[23:25:23]

sphery:

so instead, she pays for a TV, gets it home, plugs it in to her cable conneciton and gets analog NTSC and a few unencrypted (local) HDTV stations

[23:25:43]

sphery:

then she finds that to get Food network in HDTV, she needs a cable box, so she puts one under her telly

[23:26:05]

sphery:

and now, she has the tuner/decoder that she paid for in the TV, but that she'll never use

[23:26:24]

sphery:

and when I bought my TV, those decoders were expensive

[23:26:31]

sphery:

(tuner was cheap, decoder expensive)

[23:26:59]

juski:

I remember when for satellite you needed a receiver, and to have pay satellite telly you needed a decoder too

[23:27:44]

sphery:

(where by "decoder", I'm talking the MPEG-2 decoder here--the ATI Xilleon...)

[23:28:08]

juski:

heh

[23:28:08]

sphery:

(then AMD, now Broadcom)

[23:28:49]

sphery:

Mine is ATI, though--back when they made a fortune selling them/before they were commoditized by the FCC's requiring them (or equivalent) to be in every TV sold in the US)

[23:29:04]

juski:

scamtastic

[23:29:57]

juski:

really looking fwd to the outcry when HD starts on DVB-T2 here & everybody with existing 'HD Ready' sets learns they need to buy more stuff. Oh yeah

[23:30:11]

sphery:

yeah

[23:30:28]

sphery:

the other downside of promising that the display has "everything you need" built in

[23:30:47]

juski:

during the week it came out how FM & AM (Medium Wave) radio has til about 2020

[23:30:58]

juski:

they finally came clean

[23:31:09]

sphery:

what will they switch to?

[23:31:14]

jblack:

There's already digital radio in the us. They're going in quiet

[23:31:16]

juski:

DAB & DAB+

[23:31:24]

sphery:

ahh

[23:31:41]

sphery:

jblack: yeah, though all the "HD radio" commercials are annoying

[23:31:43]

juski:

DAB radios, of which a good number have already been sold, will mostly be un-upgradeable to DAB+

[23:31:47]

sphery:

it's /not/ high-definition

[23:31:51]

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[23:32:03]

Dagmar:

The expectation is that the RIAA and associated criminal enterprises will have fallen bankrupt by 2020 and without them, FM terrestrial radio will die

[23:32:08]

jblack:

No? I thought I could tell a difference.

[23:32:12]

juski:

and they'll also start broadcasting on a new band, which most recent DAB+ radios can't tune!

[23:32:49]

Dagmar:

That sounds a bit like "upgradable HDMI devices"

[23:33:07]

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[23:33:17]

juski:

why they're doing away with FM & AM I have no idea. it's not like those freqs are actually likely to be useful for anything else, like say mobile data

[23:33:41]

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[23:33:41]

Dagmar:

...that in theory, devices which are HDMI 1.2 could be upgraded through firmware to do HDMI 1.3 and get those extra features, but it appears the manufacturers are just hoping everyone will buy all new equipment.

[23:34:03]

juski:

how much data can you get on a 20Mhz carrier anyway (assuming you used the whole FM band)

[23:34:07]

Dagmar:

juski: FM and AM radio systems currently could be using a lot less spectrum than they do

[23:34:39]

juski:

so, basically UK broadcasting is going to go to hell :D

[23:34:54]

Dagmar:

The stations are assigned positions farther apart than current technology would allow

[23:34:56]

juski:

& the public will generally be quite displeased (I HOPE)

[23:35:16]

jblack:

why? Do you think their unhappiness will cause change?

[23:35:36]

juski:

can't see anybody rioting in the streets

[23:35:44]

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[23:35:46]

Dagmar:

...but the problem being that there's a lot of broadcasters out there using equipment that needs to be regularly checked and calibrated and sends out wobbly signals on bad days

[23:35:46]

juski:

unless it means they can't watch their stories

[23:35:54]

jblack:

Brits riot?

[23:36:17]

juski:

yeah. not about anything serious though

[23:36:45]

juski:

apart from racial tensions, like..

[23:36:59]

juski:

race riots & football related violence

[23:37:14]

juski:

oh and when the police antogonise peaceful protesters

[23:37:30]

juski:

*antagonise

[23:37:54]

jblack:

so like france.

[23:38:03]

juski:

no, nothing like France

[23:38:05]

sphery:

jblack: by that I mean that the station gets a bandwidth allowance that would allow a single station of purported "CD quality", but when they choose to broadcast subchannels, they carve away at that bandwidth. The FCC only requires them to have "one free over-the-air digital stream of equal or greater quality than the station's existing analog signal".

[23:38:10]

steve_steve:

does this thing pick up swear words then warn you?

[23:38:15]

juski:

the French are WAY more passionate, it seems

[23:38:18]

GreyFoxx:

Anyone know of places that make cases with the connectors/pci slots in the front but the power supply still in the "back" ?

[23:38:23]

sphery:

So, we "upgrade" to what we had before.

[23:38:24]

jblack:

steve_steve: how the fuck should i Know?

[23:38:46]

Dagmar:

ther'es subchannels on the analog FM band now, although you'd never know it unless you did a lot of reading

[23:38:48]

sphery:

but we get to pay for all sorts of proprietary patented tech (iBiquity's HDC patents) and get something that only works in the US

[23:38:51]

juski:

GreyFoxx: saw a pci extender thingy rig like that once

[23:38:57]

jblack:

sphery: Ohhhh, great.

[23:38:59]

sphery:

(because, of course, HD Radio doesn't do DAB/DAB+)

[23:39:18]

Dagmar:

Here they're mostly used for sending out "elevator music" versions of the primary broadcast. i.e., no asinine "personality" yammering

[23:39:26]

juski:

steve_steve: what do you mean 'this thing' ?

[23:39:38]

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[23:39:39]

steve_steve:

The reason I'm asking is because I am getting fucking disgusted with how much time I have spent with mythtv and I haven't gotten the tivo like programing to work jblack.

[23:39:40]

GreyFoxx:

juski: I'm sick of having all the parts of the box I generally need to get at in the inconvenient back

[23:39:44]

sphery:

but, basically, my complaint is that they aren't very up front about what you're really getting

[23:40:01]

Dagmar:

steve_steve: It doesn't do TiVo-like program autoselection might have something to do with it.

[23:40:15]

juski:

GreyFoxx: sounds like a mod yer own :)

[23:40:35]

GreyFoxx:

I know I've seen such cases before, but no idea where to look and buy one :)

[23:41:02]

GreyFoxx:

"tivo like programming" ?

[23:41:02]

Dagmar:

You want PCI slots in the _front_?

[23:41:04]

juski:

steve_steve: project success is inversely proportional to how disgusted you are with it

[23:41:08]

steve_steve:

yes it does or why bother with it. It has a schedule that you download from schedule direct and you should be able to choose progams like on a tivo

[23:41:09]

GreyFoxx:

What does that mean?

[23:41:13]

sphery:

steve_steve: you'll get much more help with well-thought-out questions that can be answered specifically rather than insulting a bunch of the people who created MythTV

[23:41:18]

juski:

steve_steve: and directly proportional to how much manual you read

[23:41:43]

GreyFoxx:

Dagmar: Yes, I basically want a case with the power button, and connectors+pci slots at the front, PS can remain in the back

[23:41:53]

juski:

like "I spent ten hours staring at the damn thing and you know what.. not a thing started working at all!

[23:41:59]

Dagmar:

Good luck with that one

[23:42:00]

sphery:

GreyFoxx: I think, maybe, it's Myth's lack of a beep-boop sound?

[23:42:12]

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[23:42:32]

juski:

I thought tivo sounds were more like rabbit poos hitting water in a pan

[23:42:32]

Dagmar:

All I can suggest is rifling through the Digi-key catalog for connectors and make your own extentions. Drill and mount them in the front of some cheap Lian-li knockoff

[23:42:36]

GreyFoxx:

Dagmar: I've seen them several times over the years, but at the time I wasn't looking to own one so never checked who made them :)

[23:42:42]

sphery:

IMHO, if Myth had "tivo-like programming" capabilities, I'd be quite disappointed.

[23:42:57]

juski:

how many thumbs am I holding up?

[23:42:58]

sphery:

I /love/ that Myth can do things that TiVo engineers couldn't even dream of doing. :)

[23:43:31]

Dagmar:

THey can dream, but unfortunately those dreams are the wholly owned properties of whatever lawyers find out about them first.

[23:43:40]

juski:

I love that Myth is available (and works in) the UK :)

[23:43:47]

juski:

unlike, say .. erm.. TiVo

[23:44:05]

steve_steve:

spherey Are you suggesting that the people on this irc channel are the ones who made mythtv?

[23:44:22]

Dagmar:

He's more than suggesting.

[23:44:30]

juski:

some people here are major contributors, fer sure

[23:44:36]

sphery:

Oh, and Myth doesn't sue Dish network and make them disable the DVR functionality in all but some 20K set-top boxes. :)

[23:44:38]

juski:

myself excluded

[23:44:49]

steve_steve:

I would expect to find them on the development channel. I thought this was the user support channel.

[23:44:49]

GreyFoxx:

steve_steve: Some people in this channel are developers

[23:44:56]

sphery:

juski included

[23:45:08]

sphery:

What did he do for Myth? Well, I'm looking at it.

[23:45:12]

GreyFoxx:

devs can help users too :)

[23:45:17]

sphery:

(nice themes, juski)

[23:45:18]

juski:

20k lines of XML does not a developer make

[23:45:31]

Dagmar:

juski: Not according to some of the resumes I've seen

[23:45:41]

sphery:

well, how many Myth devs do you think have 20K lines of C++? :)'

[23:45:52]

sphery:

(in Myth, that is)

[23:46:02]

juski:

not bored enough to look at ohloh.net or whatever

[23:46:20]

sphery:

but really, dev-ing code isn't the only help that's needed by the project

[23:47:00]

steve_steve:

Anyway just because I mentioned the word tivo doesn't mean I'm dengrating myth. I'm linux user for more than 10 years so I just I pissed off that I haven't gotten mythtv working.

[23:47:09]

sphery:

GreyFoxx: I like your "some people."

[23:47:14]

sphery:

GreyFoxx is also some people.

[23:47:19]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[23:47:26]

Dagmar:

Then perhaps you should follow the directions.

[23:47:29]

Dagmar:

Seriously.

[23:47:36]

Dagmar:

I've got something else that might help too

[23:47:51]

sphery:

steve_steve: it was more the "I am getting f***ing disgusted" than the mention of TiVo

[23:48:04]

juski:

steve_steve: well maybe by starting with describing the issues you're having here some folks could offer help

[23:48:16]

Dagmar:

steve_steve: The thing's considerably easier to figure out if you have a clear picture of how the pieces fit together http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview

[23:48:21]

sphery:

yes, asking specific, well-though-out questions

[23:48:25]

sphery:

so we can answer them

[23:49:13]

juski:

yikes. 115,934 lines changed (of XML)

[23:49:42]

juski:

1366 lines of c++ (!) heh

[23:49:58]

juski:

198 lines of perl

[23:50:20]

juski:

comment ratio in the 1366 lines of c++.. 2.1%

[23:50:48]

Dagmar:

~trout juski

[23:50:56]

juski:

wonder what ohloh.net call a 'good' comment to code ratio

[23:51:52]

jblack:

myth news only does headlines?

[23:52:12]

sphery:

jblack: mythbrowser can be used to read the story

[23:52:16]

juski:

depends on the site

[23:52:26]

sphery:

jblack: if you're using 0.21-fixes, you need KDE for MythBrowser

[23:52:36]

jblack:

gotcha

[23:52:44]

sphery:

(though I've heard there's a way to configure an external browser--like Firefox--through MythNews)

[23:52:49]

steve_steve:

I thought jblacks answer was the most zenlike. I doubt if i can get any help here.

[23:53:07]

sphery:

never explored it, though... I have a computer/monitor/keyboard/mouse in the living room, so why would I browse on the TV?

[23:53:28]

juski:

steve_steve: you may aswell install mediaportal then

[23:54:07]

juski:

ffs if you're whining about stuff not working & then proceeding to not even bloody ASK for help on the specific issues you're having. FFS

[23:54:16]

Dagmar:

Yeah, because whining about not getting help for questions you're too petulant to ask is SO productive

[23:55:16]

juski:

wahhhh nobody can help me. yes, that's true. we don't know what it is that doesn't work :)

[23:55:31]

cornell:

Dang... I was going through the channels, trying to see which is accurate.... Got an error on a channel and it went back to the menu, now "Watch TV" doesn't respond:-(

[23:56:06]

juski:

cornell: schedule a short recording on another channel

[23:56:09]

sphery:

doesn't respond meaning you stay on the menu screen

[23:56:19]

sphery:

or you go to black screen and then get kicked to menu

[23:56:31]

sphery:

or you go to black screen and it just stops

[23:56:37]

cornell:

Stay on menu screen

[23:56:46]

sphery:

yeah, likely thinks the recorder is in use

[23:57:05]

juski:

reminds me I never did find out why we have to put a starting channel yet it always starts live tv on the last channel tuned

[23:57:16]

sphery:

can check through Watch Recordings or mythweb or backend status page ( http://backend_hostname:6544/ )

[23:57:39]

sphery:

juski: starting channel is only for the first time tuning, then it's updated with the last-tuned

[23:57:43]

sphery:

and oh, yeah

[23:57:54]

sphery:

you're right--it's probably trying to enter on that channel, which doesn't work

[23:58:07]

sphery:

so the recording on another channel will update it

[23:58:20]

cornell:

"Encoder 2 is local on mythmbe and is watching Live TV: 'Unknown' on WHYY-12. This recording will end at 8:00 PM"

[23:58:33]

sphery:

so it thinks it's still recording

[23:58:38]

juski:

ding

[23:58:45]

cornell:

I wish I could put in a channel when I hit watch tv

[23:58:46]

juski:

though it's likely that all will apply here

[23:58:48]

sphery:

so schedule another recording (which should interrupt livetv)

[23:58:53]

sphery:

or just restart the backend

[23:59:12]

sphery:

cornell: enable the Show Guide before LiveTV setting

[23:59:21]

jblack:

this mythstream thing looks cool, but broken

[23:59:39]

cornell:

restart backend sounds better

[23:59:47]

cornell:

By the way.

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