Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, April 20th, 2009, 00:08 UTC

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[00:30:20]

[yzf600]:

can commercial skip detection be queued up to run later in time, similar to how transcode jobs are queued up?

[00:30:59]

clever:

i cant see why you would want to do that:S

[00:31:30]

[yzf600]:

oh – so it runs in parallel as show is recorded? That makes sense

[00:32:00]

iamlindoro:

Only if you set it to do so

[00:32:06]

iamlindoro:

By default, it does not

[00:32:06]

[yzf600]:

got ya

[00:32:25]

iamlindoro:

By default, just like a transcode, it waits for the recording to finish-- so you're actually describing Myth's default behavior

[00:32:54]

[yzf600]:

does the commflagging supposed to take lots of cpu cycles? I'm running it on ATSC HD recordings

[00:33:05]

squish102:

that is what i thought too, out the box it queues it

[00:33:20]

iamlindoro:

Yes, commflagging can be processor intensive

[00:33:50]

[yzf600]:

I don't think it queues because I have my job queues set up to run after 2am, and I see mythcommflag jobs running before then

[00:33:54]

iamlindoro:

But a decent modern processor can easily handle it

[00:34:32]

iamlindoro:

Sounds like you've enabled it to run as soon as the recording starts

[00:35:02]

[yzf600]:

I;ve got "auto-flag commercials" set in recording options

[00:35:09]

squish102:

i am not sure about scheduling it? it does queue them, if I am recording 3 things and they all end at the same time, and I have it set to only run 1 job at a time, it queues them up one after another

[00:35:52]

squish102:

but my little old cpu can handle it pretty well, like iamlindoro said

[00:35:55]

[yzf600]:

I actually don't want commercial flag immediately after recording. I want it queue up for running late a night

[00:36:10]

[yzf600]:

I';ve got a amd athlon x2 2.5Ghz

[00:36:30]

squish102:

lol, i have an amd 64

[00:37:07]

squish102:

slow one too

[00:37:25]

squish102:

just have not found a reason to upgrade yet :(

[00:37:33]

[yzf600]:

I've been trying to debug why playback stutters while watching recorded programs. It's an intermittant issue. I thought the mythcommflag might have something to do with it.

[00:38:19]

[yzf600]:

Where would I find the setting to change commercial flag from immediate after recording, to schedule in job queue?

[00:39:31]

squish102:

[yzf600] not sure if it is mythcommflag, i am pretty surprised, the only time i notice mythcommflag is running is when hd light is on all the time and if i decided to run top, otherwise it has no effect on my machine

[00:40:00]

[yzf600]:

you wathcing ATSC HD streams?

[00:40:59]

squish102:

recording 2 atsc HD and one ntsc and mythcommflag an hd show and watching an hd show... (but that is probably as hard as I have pushed it!)

[00:41:10]

[yzf600]:

ok

[00:41:24]

[yzf600]:

it must be something else causing my problem, then

[00:41:30]

squish102:

if i had to run a mythfillbatabase... i don't think machine would handle it

[00:42:42]

squish102:

i wonder if i increased memory from 512 to a gig if that would help mythfilldatabase (which seems to run when i don't want it to)

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[01:10:42]

mchou:

squish102: mythfilldb sucks processor power!

[01:11:58]

mchou:

squish102: and how come you only have 512MB ram on your backend these days

[01:12:36]

mchou:

squish102: RAM is inexpensive

[01:27:33]

squish102:

yes i know ;) I have memory lying around here, but too lazy to get machine out and upgrade, it is running just fine and i am too scared to touch it ;)

[01:29:34]

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[01:31:23]

Quantumstate:

I'm getting intermirrent stops while watching H.264/AVC. Every 5 seconds it stops for a second and then continues. I have three mythfrontend threads for some reason, and one is pegging one 3GHz core.

[01:32:04]

Quantumstate:

No vdpau and it's not compiled in. I am getting this in the log though: 2009-04–19 18:27:47.685 Audio 164 ms behind video but already 75 video frames queued. AV-Sync might be broken.

[01:32:27]

Quantumstate:

Over and over...

[01:36:48]

kormoc:

turn off pulse audio?

[01:37:05]

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[01:37:19]

Quantumstate:

How?

[01:37:47]

kormoc:

That depends on your distro

[01:37:56]

Quantumstate:

Debian Testing

[01:39:39]

sphery:

and, really, TTBOMK, a 3GHz CPU may not be enough to handle H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, depending on resolution/bitrate of the stream

[01:39:55]

dewman:

I have officially buried my ati all in wonder card in the back yard, and topped it with fresh dog poop. =)

[01:40:36]

sphery:

heh, someone was in here the other day hoping that Myth would add support for AIW cards...

[01:40:38]

Quantumstate:

Seems like Myth is running 3 threads, so it should use both cores. Averaging 105%

[01:40:41]

sphery:

your idea is much better, though

[01:40:52]

dewman:

=)

[01:41:01]

sphery:

Quantumstate: decoding is all done in one thread

[01:41:14]

sphery:

Quantumstate: in newest trunk, some deinterlacing may be done in a separate thread

[01:41:31]

Quantumstate:

Oh, running fixes 20406.

[01:41:39]

sphery:

but generally, playback is going to be basically single threaded

[01:41:50]

sphery:

other threads are other stuff that's happening

[01:42:06]

iamlindoro:

sphery, wagnerrp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpDO9hlz4i4

[01:42:15]

Quantumstate:

Ya that would explain the haltiness. Is this audio symptom fixable?

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[01:43:05]

sphery:

iamlindoro: you know better than I the CPU requirements for H.264... Any thoughts on a 3GHz--he hasn't mentioned whether that's a Core 2 or AMD or ...

[01:43:29]

Quantumstate:

E8400 core2duo

[01:43:58]

sphery:

that's closer to possible than with a 3GHz Pentium 4, then :)

[01:44:09]

kormoc:

iamlindoro, the observer is just a g-man wanna be

[01:44:11]

iamlindoro:

Would need to know more about bitrate, encoding options, source, but generally speaking that's a pretty capable CPU

[01:44:22]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, Well hello docccccccctor Freeman

[01:44:36]

kormoc:

Exactly

[01:44:43]

Quantumstate:

Getting haltiness every 5 seconds for a second, then it continues.

[01:44:50]

sphery:

did they air a Fringe episode I missed?

[01:45:08]

Quantumstate:

Running ~105%

[01:45:08]

iamlindoro:

sphery, Yes, it was 1x16 – American idol

[01:45:16]

iamlindoro:

;)

[01:45:37]

sphery:

according to Myth, I've seen all of them...

[01:45:51]

sphery:

Quantumstate: still wondering about bitrate, encoding options, source...

[01:46:08]

Quantumstate:

Don't know how to determine?

[01:46:36]

sphery:

ffmpeg -i /path/to/file

[01:47:00]

sphery:

should at least give some info on res (and possibly bitrate)

[01:47:37]

sphery:

source would be, "ripped a Blu-Ray," or "OTA broadcast in UK," or "I can't say because it's against channel rules."

[01:48:29]

sphery:

or, I suppose it could be, "I downloaded it--it's Elephant's Dream"

[01:48:47]

Quantumstate:

Source is R5000 from DishNetwork. bitrate: 10346 kb/s

[01:48:58]

dewman:

not trying to hijack the topic here, but what about a dual xeon 2.0ghz single core. you think that might suffice for h.264?

[01:49:10]

Quantumstate:

Stream #0.2[0x1222]: Video: h264, yuv420p, 1440x1080 [PAR 4:3 DAR 16:9], 59.94 tbr, 90k tbn, 59.94 tbc

[01:49:20]

sphery:

BTW, for you fringe fans, they've decoded the images before the commercials

[01:49:22]

kormoc:

dewman, perhaps 720, maybe, not 1080

[01:49:47]

sphery:

http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/04/07/solut . . . lyph-cipher/

[01:49:51]

sphery:

http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/04/08/a-qui . . . r-follow-up/

[01:49:59]

dewman:

poop... ok well....I guess I will have to talk the wife into letting me spend some money then.

[01:50:13]

sphery:

if you're an aspiring crytanalyst, don't read the above

[01:51:03]

sphery:

Quantumstate: no idea how clean/compliant the DISH streams are

[01:51:28]

sphery:

but 10Mb/s is a pretty hefty decoding challenge, AFAIK

[01:51:34]

iamlindoro:

Dish is Single Sliced too

[01:51:56]

sphery:

so multithread won't be possible when ffmpeg gets mt h.264 decode?

[01:52:04]

iamlindoro:

s/when/until/

[01:52:09]

sphery:

oh...

[01:52:10]

iamlindoro:

We have slice based now

[01:52:18]

sphery:

didn't know they were going to do mt for single-sliced

[01:52:19]

iamlindoro:

ffmpeg-mt doesn't rely on slices

[01:52:25]

sphery:

cool

[01:52:28]

iamlindoro:

yeah

[01:52:31]

sphery:

saves getting out the cutting utensils

[01:52:43]

iamlindoro:

chop chop

[01:52:46]

** kormoc wonders if it relies on dices **

[01:52:55]

iamlindoro:

ffmpeg-julienne

[01:53:08]

Quantumstate:

Dang. Any way to ameliorate this Audio error in the logs? I'd rather not run Trunk as it's development, so running fixes.

[01:53:31]

sphery:

Quantumstate: do they make 4GHz Core 2 procs, yet?

[01:53:48]

Quantumstate:

{hehe} this is a laptop... it'd burn up.

[01:53:48]

kormoc:

well, I still say turn off pulse audio and give that a try

[01:54:00]

kormoc:

given it's known for the audio skew crap

[01:54:08]

Quantumstate:

Don't know how to turn off Pulse?

[01:54:17]

kormoc:

kill pulseaudio?

[01:54:27]

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[01:54:47]

sphery:

definitely a good plan, too.

[01:54:53]

Quantumstate:

Mm, no pulse daemon running.

[01:55:04]

sphery:

your CPU may work for it, but with Pulse, you've no hope

[01:55:15]

iamlindoro:

pulse spawns itself when needed

[01:55:33]

iamlindoro:

but I don't believe debian is shipping with it by default (could be wrong)

[01:55:35]

kormoc:

I really don't know pulse other then it kills audio sync

[01:55:37]

sphery:

PulseAudio = lazarus daemon?

[01:55:59]

Quantumstate:

2009-04–19 18:27:47.333 Audio 242 ms behind video but already 75 video frames queued. AV-Sync might be broken.

[01:56:21]

** sphery wonders if anyone will get the reference **

[01:56:27]

iamlindoro:

Is that in case we missed it last time you pasted it?

[01:56:29]

Quantumstate:

No lazarus daemon either ATM.

[01:56:52]

Quantumstate:

I thought you joined after I posted before iam

[01:56:58]

sphery:

http://charmed.wikia.com/wiki/Lazarus_Demons

[01:57:11]

kormoc:

As if we could keep iamlindoro out ;)

[01:57:12]

iamlindoro:

I never join

[01:57:19]

iamlindoro:

I came with the channel

[01:57:31]

iamlindoro:

like "Inspected by 73"

[01:57:48]

Quantumstate:

<g>

[01:57:56]

iamlindoro:

(Who, by the way, I'd rather would stop testing my underwear)

[01:58:13]

sphery:

I have to say they've got some pretty advanced AI rules for iamlindoro , now...

[01:58:20]

sphery:

amazing how much of a change we've seen in the last year

[01:58:26]

kormoc:

mythtv – the future skynet

[01:58:30]

Quantumstate:

Sounds like a real person...

[01:58:32]

iamlindoro:

sphery, how do the pretty advanced AI rules make you feel?

[01:58:35]

sphery:

If T:TSCC weren't cancelled, I'd be worried about him...

[01:59:00]

iamlindoro:

sphery, let us explore these feelings of worry together

[01:59:43]

Quantumstate:

How does exploring those feelings make you feel?

[02:00:42]

sphery:

Woah! I feel good! Na, na, na, na, na, na! I knew that I would, now...

[02:01:08]

Quantumstate:

Well, I guess I'm outta luck with H.264 then, unless I can get some other hardware assist. VDPAU is intolerent of breakups.

[02:02:14]

sphery:

Quantumstate: if you're not a distro snob, you may want to try backing up your DB ( http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore ), installing a plain-vanilla MythBuntu (which should feel comfortably similar for you), then trying it out

[02:02:47]

sphery:

don't remember, but I think the 8.10 version does not use Pulse (if you use MythBuntu--I think it does for Ewwwwbuntu)

[02:03:03]

iamlindoro:

You are correct

[02:03:03]

Quantumstate:

Thanks, but gad that would take alot of time. I am not making a living ATM.

[02:04:06]

Quantumstate:

For some reason I get breakups in Dish recordings, and not while watching live. If I could fix that I could use VDPAU again.

[02:04:41]

sphery:

Quantumstate: it's also possible that the audio and video are so far out of sync that it pegs the buffers, so Myth is operating as if it had virtually no buffer, which is a strain

[02:04:46]

sphery:

if so, you'd have to fix the stream

[02:05:09]

sphery:

but, making 100% sure you're not using Pulse first is also important.

[02:05:19]

Quantumstate:

Watching a recording they seem in sync... only the logfile symptom and haltiness.

[02:06:02]

sphery:

Quantumstate: and definitely /do/ enable "Extra audio buffering" and do /not/ enable "Aggressive Sound card Buffering"

[02:06:17]

sphery:

Quantumstate: and do /not/ enable "Use video as timebase"

[02:06:36]

Quantumstate:

I just did an Adept search for pulse and only have libpulse... to remove that would yank vlc, kmplayer, and mucho other stuff.

[02:06:39]

sphery:

Quantumstate: yeah, Myth puts them in sync at playback, but in the stream, they may be offset a bit

[02:07:45]

Quantumstate:

Oh dear, I always understood from wiki to not use aggressive, and to use video as timebase.

[02:08:01]

sphery:

not aggressive is good

[02:08:14]

iamlindoro:

Anything in the wiki that recommends video as a timebase should be nuked

[02:08:22]

sphery:

use video as timebase is bad--thus the, "Use the video as the timebase and warp the audio to keep it in sync. (Experimental)"

[02:08:41]

Quantumstate:

OK, making the changes...

[02:08:50]

sphery:

where "Experimental" is read, "Don't enable this unless you want your MythTV system to fail to playback recordings"

[02:08:58]

iamlindoro:

First show us where, in case there's a misunderstanding

[02:09:31]

sphery:

yes, there are /2/ different but closely-similar-sounding settings regarding audio buffering...

[02:09:41]

sphery:

/do/ enable "Extra audio buffering" and do /not/ enable "Aggressive Sound card Buffering"

[02:10:36]

Quantumstate:

Don't remember where, sorry.

[02:11:05]

Quantumstate:

OK, had the audio settings right. Looking for timebase

[02:11:19]

sphery:

think that one's in playback settings

[02:11:37]

sphery:

General Playback (1/2)

[02:11:53]

sphery:

which makes me think of How I Met Your Mother...

[02:11:57]

Quantumstate:

And timebase was not checked.

[02:12:14]

sphery:

well, then your Myth config is likely as good as it gets...

[02:12:22]

sphery:

now down to audio subsystem

[02:12:29]

sphery:

and stream itself

[02:13:02]

sphery:

(assuming CPU/system is capable)

[02:13:11]

Quantumstate:

Have Enable OpenGL vertical sync for timing, checked.

[02:13:21]

sphery:

that's good

[02:13:27]

sphery:

Oh, what about playback profile?

[02:13:33]

sphery:

choose Slim for the playback profile group

[02:13:36]

sphery:

(default config of)

[02:13:47]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Playback_profiles

[02:14:06]

sphery:

If you have CPU+, that's probably the problem

[02:14:14]

Quantumstate:

Set to Slim, as you guys suggested.

[02:14:30]

sphery:

ah, that's be best one for performance

[02:14:44]

Quantumstate:

I just realized, my CPU in this machine is 2GHz dual-core.

[02:14:56]

sphery:

can't make it much better than that (other than changing the renderer)

[02:15:07]

Quantumstate:

It's the remote one that's 3.

[02:15:28]

Quantumstate:

Is there opengl accel?

[02:15:36]

sphery:

I think, even with a Core 2 microarchitecture, 2GHz is a little bit too lightweight for that stream

[02:16:05]

sphery:

From what I heard, 2.6GHz is where you should start hoping...

[02:16:48]

Quantumstate:

Ya, that makes sense. Maybe I should lobby for VDPAU to better tolerate stream breakups, and try to find why I get them.

[02:17:21]

Quantumstate:

... so I can use VDPAU.

[02:17:53]

sphery:

or explore other options for source...

[02:18:13]

Quantumstate:

No other place to get such movies in HD.

[02:18:16]

sphery:

i.e. if you can go cable or OTA, you'd get nice easy MPEG-2

[02:18:39]

Quantumstate:

Have OTA with HVR-1250, but not the great movies.

[02:18:53]

Quantumstate:

Comcast sux...

[02:18:57]

sphery:

yep, that's why I'm a) using OTA and b) voting against DRM with my wallet by not paying the satellite/cable co's for their encrypted channels

[02:19:20]

sphery:

IMHO, the only vote that counts

[02:19:42]

Quantumstate:

I thought about goinf Netflix for movies, but they have atrocious privacy policies... as bad as Google's.

[02:19:54]

sphery:

of course, until I can convince a large majority of other people that movies/cable channels aren't a necessity and get them to vote with me, I'm not winning the ballot

[02:19:55]

iamlindoro:

sphery, No offense, but I think we'd all rather hear from an actual dev

[02:19:56]

iamlindoro:

;)

[02:20:02]

kormoc:

Vote for me! I'll provide free tv programming in HD unencrypted by making it all gonvernment funded!

[02:20:05]

sphery:

sorry... I forgot

[02:20:22]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, Have you read the "actual dev" thread? quality stuff

[02:20:33]

kormoc:

iamlindoro, nope? -users I assume?

[02:20:45]

sphery:

yeah...

[02:20:47]

iamlindoro:

from your favorite person, too

[02:20:58]

iamlindoro:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2009-April/253822.html

[02:21:00]

sphery:

I got put in my place by a guy who hates all mythtv-users

[02:21:15]

gbutters_away is now known as gbutters

[02:21:38]

Quantumstate:

Makes you feel any better, I did too. It's the Users list, FCS...

[02:21:54]

iamlindoro:

Quantumstate, Except sphery has probably as much code in myth as most devs, and more than some

[02:22:08]

sphery:

more /recent/ code, maybe...

[02:22:37]

kormoc:

Must... not... hunt... down... and... set... on... fire... must... not...

[02:23:09]

Quantumstate:

Well OK, I'm probably fscked with this 2GHz. I'll focus on cleaning up my stream for VDPAU.

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iamlindoro:

kormoc, and with that, a new in-joke is born :)

[02:30:22]

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kormoc:

iamlindoro, Next time I'm at MIT, I really wanna track the guy down and at get him to change his name to something real at least...

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[02:32:39]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, My presumption is that he's actually in IT there

[02:32:54]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, given how he was able to create his own (mildly offensive) MIT e-mail

[02:33:05]

kormoc:

aye

[02:35:21]

iamlindoro:

Heh, actually found my good buddy from grad school (also from MIT) on the myth users archive

[02:37:27]

iamlindoro:

Just one little post, with no response

[02:37:36]

** iamlindoro blames sphery **

[02:37:45]

iamlindoro:

probably turned by MIT buddy into f-myth-users :)

[02:37:48]

iamlindoro:

er my

[02:38:36]

kormoc:

haha

[02:40:57]

sphery:

yeah, that was me

[02:41:22]

sphery:

I changed him right after he invented collaborative filtering

[02:41:59]

iamlindoro:

nice work

[02:42:48]

iamlindoro:

He was actually a founding engineer at Akamai... lucky bastard, with his "owning his house" and "paying his taxes"

[02:43:04]

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[02:43:29]

kormoc:

we just switched to Akamai at work

[02:43:37]

iamlindoro:

He's the very opposite of f-m-u, though :)

[02:43:58]

kormoc:

maybe that's why f-m-u won't sign his name, he'll be found out!

[02:44:17]

iamlindoro:

heh, ISTR he's been around for ages, too... time seems not to have mellowed him either

[02:46:55]

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[02:48:17]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Captain_Murdoch

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[02:59:33]

Shadow__X:

everybody have fun to night

[03:16:02]

sphery:

Looks like MyMote is becoming a US-only thing...

[03:17:08]

kormoc:

meh, I'm hoping mythweb will take it over anyway

[03:17:52]

iamlindoro:

destroyed my iphone dripping it in the dog bowl, sigh

[03:18:05]

iamlindoro:

And now it's not worth getting another until the next hardware revision comes out

[03:18:25]

kormoc:

no warrantee?

[03:18:34]

iamlindoro:

Not against owner stupidity :)

[03:18:44]

kormoc:

I thought applecare didn't matter?

[03:19:00]

iamlindoro:

no applecare in this case

[03:19:30]

sphery:

what? apple doesn't care?

[03:19:43]

Shadow__X:

lol

[03:26:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, are you talking about his patch?

[03:26:08]

Captain_Murdoch:

MyMote?

[03:26:44]

sphery:

yeah...

[03:27:05]

sphery:

though I just saw the part where he said that xmltv stuff doesn't wipe the listings first

[03:27:07]

Captain_Murdoch:

sounds like he says changes aren't necessary to the import process for non-SD users, all they need is the changes to the table to store the update timestamp.

[03:27:09]

sphery:

I really thought it did

[03:27:23]

Captain_Murdoch:

I can't remember,it's been so long.

[03:28:06]

kormoc:

I was fairly sure it did

[03:28:22]

Captain_Murdoch:

I would think it does.

[03:28:44]

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[03:28:45]

kormoc:

updating in place would be hard for changes

[03:29:44]

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[03:31:26]

Captain_Murdoch:

if his updates work it makes it simple to do. he has 2 huge SQL deletes in his patch. those wouldn't have been possible with older MySQL 3.x, but are now with multi-table deletes.

[03:32:03]

Captain_Murdoch:

multi-table meaning you delete from one table but the where joins against others.

[03:32:05]

sphery:

DELETE with JOINs

[03:32:25]

sphery:

yeah... I did one of those once, then found out we couldn't, so patched it out :)

[03:32:28]

kormoc:

Yeah, and if it does work right, would help mythweb / mythfe cache more agressively

[03:33:07]

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[03:33:35]

Captain_Murdoch:

his theory sounds good, I haven't looked at the code indepth, but the idea makes sense.

[03:36:21]

sphery:

well, our only UPDATEs to program are misc post-processing and EIT stuff and ProgramData::fix_end_times()

[03:37:59]

sphery:

We have DELETE FROM program in the lib used by mythfilldatabase (ProgramData::clearDataByChannel() and ProgramData::handlePrograms()

[03:38:22]

sphery:

and ProgramData::clearDataBySource() uses ProgramData::clearDataByChannel() ...

[03:38:30]

sphery:

I don't see how else we'd get the xmltv stuff in there...

[03:38:38]

sphery:

wonder if he only checked the EIT stuff

[03:40:03]

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[03:58:14]

iamlindoro:

Hooo-eee, BSG complete series on Blu ray is $250

[03:59:03]

kormoc:

Give it a few years

[03:59:16]

sphery:

they had to pay for 4.5 somehow...

[03:59:43]

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[03:59:49]

iamlindoro:

Just wait for this format to fail and then pick it up cheap? It's worked well for HD-DVDs :)

[04:00:18]

sphery:

I hear that the Red-Ray has a lot less royalties...

[04:00:40]

kormoc:

Black-Ray is the new hawtness

[04:02:08]

sphery:

and that one comes with a free velvet Elvis painting, right?

[04:02:28]

kormoc:

Aye!

[04:05:51]

sphery:

btw, red-ray is real (but a slang term for) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_Versatile_Disc

[04:06:59]

sphery:

what confuses me is that they say 135min of 720p video on dual layer and 135 minutes of 1080i on 3-layer, but 720p and 1080i have identical pixels-per-second, so I wonder why you need 50% more space for 1080i

[04:07:14]

sphery:

if it were 1080p, I could understand it, but...

[04:07:37]

iamlindoro:

And even 1080p

[04:07:45]

iamlindoro:

1080p/24, which is what it should be

[04:07:59]

iamlindoro:

versus 720p/60, about the same

[04:08:32]

sphery:

yeah, probably just left out wildly different fps's

[04:11:20]

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[04:43:23]

auto-jack:

can anyone point me to a howto on transcoding x264 to xvid or something that will play on my Pentium M system? these x264 files I have are no match for my CPU.

[04:44:34]

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[04:59:52]

wagnerrp:

if theyre no match, why bother transcoding?

[05:00:36]

wagnerrp:

auto-jack: ^^^

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[05:01:13]

kormoc:

He left *a long* time ago

[05:01:24]

wagnerrp:

ah... so he did

[05:01:32]

wagnerrp:

3 minutes after asking the question

[05:01:42]

wagnerrp:

love that patience

[05:01:52]

Shadow__X:

i need answers now

[05:01:55]

Shadow__X:

dont i pay you enough

[05:01:58]

Shadow__X:

:)

[05:02:17]

kormoc:

I demand a paycut!

[05:02:33]

Shadow__X:

you will only get a 10 percent cut

[05:02:41]

kormoc:

Not good enough!

[05:02:45]

Shadow__X:

you will need to work to get 20 percent

[05:02:49]

Shadow__X:

WORK HARDER

[05:03:05]

** kormoc ports mythweb to python **

[05:03:43]

iamlindoro:

Ugh, is that not *done* yet? You know, people like you don't know what the open source community is about

[05:03:45]

Shadow__X:

does mythweb make recommendations on what else i should watch kormoc ?

[05:04:48]

kormoc:

Shadow__X, yes, a all inclusive list, under search, search for a empty string with the 'watched recordings' and 'scheduled to record' filters checked. You'll get a list of everything you should watch!

[05:05:11]

wagnerrp:

does mythweb pull metadata from thepiratebay yet?

[05:05:24]

kormoc:

Totally, via the nearest RIAA/MPAA node

[05:05:51]

Shadow__X:

does it give them your current hard drive content as well

[05:05:58]

Shadow__X:

you dont want to half ass it

[05:06:10]

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[05:06:28]

kormoc:

It uploads all financial information and porn it finds, to keep the signal to noise ratio high

[05:07:04]

Shadow__X:

it should also download stuff you wouldnt get other wise just to help build the case

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[05:41:58]

thedarkone:

whatz the best tuner for doing hdtv?

[05:51:12]

wombo:

Any tuner that is supported out of the box by V4L

[05:51:25]

wombo:

or a HD Homerun

[05:51:56]

kormoc:

you run into encryption issues with most HDTV tuners

[06:07:43]

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[06:08:53]

Wicked:

hello all. just going through some logs and im seeing ALOT of this http://pastebin.com/m51b4a1be . i have a pvr-150 and im using svideo in from a sci atl stb.

[06:09:39]

Wicked:

its running on a core2duo with 4 gigs ram so i would hope that is beefy enough to handle SD cable

[06:10:12]

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[06:10:28]

kormoc:

Wicked, so tune your ivtv mpeg corder buffer size until it can keep up?

[06:10:37]

Guest24254:

Hello all :) Does anyone know any info about using mythtv as a DVR program?

[06:11:38]

Wicked:

kormoc, oh hmm. wasnt aware there was such a thing...im not to familiar with the tv card

[06:12:10]

kormoc:

modinfo ivtv will show you all the options

[06:12:56]

sphery:

Wicked: Looks like you (or mythbackend) were running mythfilldatabase at the time? If so, you may have been in I/O wait, preventing the app from reading(/writing) data from the card...

[06:12:56]

Guest24254:

Anyone? Buler? :) LOL

[06:13:32]

Wicked:

sphery, oh hmm possible. i did notice the last line was a seg fault from mythfilldatabase

[06:14:39]

sphery:

Guest24254: it's a great DVR (Developer Video Recorder) for people who love to tinker. For people who want a quick/easy digital video recorder, cable-/sat-co DVR's are much easier (and possibly cheaper), TiVo's are easy and have a nice interface, and Windows MCE is relatively easy but allows some tinkering.

[06:14:41]

Shadow__X:

Guest24254, mythtv.org

[06:14:44]

Wicked:

kormoc, there is several diff buffer settings. would i want to set enc_mpg_buffers and dec_mpg_buffers

[06:14:53]

kormoc:

enc only

[06:14:57]

Wicked:

ok

[06:14:59]

sphery:

Guest24254: but if you're looking to spend way too much of your time/money on a brand new hobby, Myth is the way to go

[06:15:04]

kormoc:

dec is only for the decoding on a pvr 350

[06:15:19]

Wicked:

and a quick google said to add the options to the modprobe conf...is there a easier way to test?

[06:15:21]

Guest24254:

sphery Actually, I was talking about a SECURITY system DVR, for recording cameras...

[06:15:47]

kormoc:

Wicked, rmmod ivtv; modprobe ivtv option=value option=value option=value;

[06:15:53]

Shadow__X:

sphery, thats a great description

[06:15:59]

sphery:

TTBOMK, closest thing to that is MythZoneMinder, but remember that Myth is designed for recording TV /with/ program listings

[06:16:09]

Wicked:

ah ok. the default is 4...would doubling it be ok? or should i bump it up to like 4 or 5 1st?

[06:16:24]

Wicked:

kormoc, ah right thanks

[06:16:29]

sphery:

So using MythTV (the TV part) to record security camera "TV footage" is not ideal

[06:16:59]

kormoc:

Wicked, so iirc when I had a 250, I used 16 (megs) I believe

[06:17:00]

Guest24254:

sphery, ok thanks for the wisdom, someone recomended this to me, and I am VERY new to Fedora. Thanks :)

[06:17:10]

sphery:

Shadow__X: I just believe that people shouldn't approach Myth with false hopes :)

[06:17:28]

Wicked:

ok. ill try some googling to see if i can find out if my 150 has the same

[06:17:30]

sphery:

Guest24254: check out MythZoneMinder, though--it may serve your needs

[06:17:37]

sphery:

it's a plugin for MythTV

[06:17:50]

Shadow__X:

yup i approached it with about that atitude i had to put it on the back burner due to time restraints but when i move i plan on picking it up again

[06:18:00]

kormoc:

at that point, if it's just security, zoneminder itself might enough

[06:18:01]

Guest24254:

sphery, ok will look at it. Thanks again :)

[06:18:04]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythZoneMinder

[06:19:28]

sphery:

kormoc: good point... forgot that mythzoneminder came from a standalone app... :)

[06:19:43]

sphery:

(or uses/interfaces with...)

[06:20:11]

sphery:

Guest24254: http://www.zoneminder.com/

[06:21:26]

Shadow__X:

sweet i think i am going to set that up in my house

[06:21:58]

Shadow__X:

awesome xhtml too :)

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[06:30:24]

Shadow__X:

no one does security?

[06:30:39]

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[06:38:44]

kormoc:

not with myth...

[06:39:48]

Shadow__X:

yeah i know that i meant in general i am moving soon and am going to beable to run a security system and i think video with an email notifying movement would be good

[06:40:25]

kormoc:

Personally, i don't like security systems watching me, even if it's my own

[06:40:43]

Shadow__X:

kormoc, too big brother ish?

[06:40:50]

kormoc:

Aye

[06:42:40]

Shadow__X:

i dont want my stuff stolen and if it is i want to catch them red handed

[06:43:21]

kormoc:

Why move into a area where that's likely?

[06:43:43]

Shadow__X:

i am not but just because an area is nice does not mean bad things cant happen

[06:44:08]

kormoc:

but what's a camera gonna do? Show some folks that you'll never see again?

[06:44:10]

** kormoc shrugs **

[06:44:29]

kormoc:

I personally feel the lack of the record is worth more then the small chance my stuff gets taken

[06:44:45]

Shadow__X:

hmm true but lets say you catch a license plate and a picture

[06:44:48]

Shadow__X:

they are guilty

[06:44:55]

** kormoc shrugs **

[06:44:59]

kormoc:

unless the car is stolen

[06:45:00]

Shadow__X:

so either the police can find them or i can

[06:45:05]

** kormoc shrugs **

[06:45:25]

kormoc:

I've never heard of a home system ever actually helping anyone

[06:49:20]

CCFL_Man2:

anyone use dvb-s pci cards?

[06:58:09]

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[06:59:09]

banyan:

Hello! I just updated my front end machine to F10. I can't make mythfrontend run though, because : mythfrontend: error while loading shared libraries: libraw1394.so.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

[07:00:28]

banyan:

I 'fixed' this on the back end by just making a symlink in /usr/bin to /usr/bin/libraw1394.so.11.0.1. but that's not working on the frontend.

[07:09:41]

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[07:23:08]

clever:

banyan: the libs have to be in a /lib dir like /usr/lib/, not a /bin/

[07:23:57]

banyan:

they are in /usr/lib.

[07:24:10]

clever:

and you may need to run ldconfig after changing that

[07:24:30]

banyan:

you mean the libraw1394 files?

[07:24:46]

clever:

the file/symlink

[07:25:15]

clever:

lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 19 2008-08–14 23:48 /usr/lib/libraw1394.so.8 -> libraw1394.so.8.2.0

[07:25:23]

clever:

thats the symlink i have on my own system

[07:25:32]

clever:

though i dont even use firewire

[07:26:40]

banyan:

better question is what is up with that? I don't expect that sort of thing installing from packages.

[07:27:00]

banyan:

all the dependencies are listed, right? ;-p

[07:27:06]

clever:

the package is probly supposed to depend on the older firewire lib but isnt

[07:27:27]

clever:

i dont use fedora so i cant check, and ive allways used mythtv from trunk svn

[07:27:30]

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[07:32:11]

banyan:

well, I think your ldconfig hint did the trick. either that or a bunch of reinstalling.

[07:33:25]

banyan:

I really hoped that the fusion thing and getting atrpms uninvolved with myth would have eliminated all that stuff.

[07:33:37]

banyan:

but all's well that ends well. cheers!

[07:33:44]

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[07:49:55]

Saviq:

guys, after last update to 0.21-fixes (rev. 19961) myth stopped inhibiting gnome-screensaver, any idea what might've caused that

[07:49:55]

Saviq:

?

[07:54:06]

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[08:05:32]

mib_5kjx0e:

Hi

[08:06:19]

mib_5kjx0e:

anyone here?

[08:10:19]

Saviq:

mib_5kjx0e: I wouldn't expect an answer for that kinda question

[08:13:02]

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[08:18:05]

tank-man:

look at the frontend log

[08:18:20]

tank-man:

see when you play a video if it really does not turn off dpms

[08:27:16]

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[08:32:05]

justinh:

Shadow__X: FWIW, don't bother with home CCTV. I have it & unless you have either i) Megapixel cameras with visible (i.e. not IR) floodlight illumination or ii) PTZ cameras with 24/7 human operator AND visible floodlight illumination – there's FA chance of getting images anybody can use as evidence

[08:33:26]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[08:33:29]

justinh:

I was burgled last year. the guys who came in both looked directly into my cameras, but seen as they were lit by IR & recorded in PAL.. added to the fact their faces weren't anything like full screen... totally effing useless

[08:33:38]

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[08:33:57]

Shadow__X:

hmm so have goo illumination and good cameras?

[08:34:01]

Shadow__X:

which get expensive

[08:34:13]

justinh:

good cameras, but they're only PAL still

[08:34:42]

justinh:

to be worthwhile you need megapixel at least, with really powerful (like daylight) floodlights

[08:34:45]

justinh:

not IR

[08:35:03]

justinh:

IR makes it impossible to determine important features like skin tone

[08:35:18]

Shadow__X:

hmm ok

[08:35:23]

Shadow__X:

and no pal

[08:35:31]

justinh:

black shirts look light grey

[08:35:36]

justinh:

light grey looks erm.. light grey

[08:35:45]

justinh:

red looks light grey

[08:35:53]

justinh:

yellow looks light grey...

[08:35:57]

justinh:

geddit yet? ;)

[08:36:38]

justinh:

Shadow__X: megapixel cameras with good lenses in quality housings... not gonna be cheap but nothing worthwhile ever is

[08:37:07]

Shadow__X:

right

[08:37:16]

justinh:

and prolly PIR activated floodlamps. then again, if you have security lighting that's prolly going to be deterrent enough

[08:37:32]

Shadow__X:

hmm ok yeah because having the camera and not finding anything usefull would really piss me off

[08:37:36]

Shadow__X:

pir?

[08:37:47]

justinh:

movement detection

[08:37:54]

Shadow__X:

oh ok

[08:37:59]

Shadow__X:

yeah i can see your point

[08:38:02]

justinh:

saves you having multiple 500W floods on all night

[08:38:04]

justinh:

;)

[08:38:10]

Shadow__X:

heh right

[08:38:14]

Shadow__X:

would get a bit expensive

[08:38:18]

justinh:

heh

[08:39:04]

justinh:

the cctv system I have would cost a LOT of money, the DVR etc... it's shocking how little use it is

[08:40:23]

justinh:

and the cheap taiwanese systems you can buy now are even worse, they often put 4 cameras into one PAL/NTSC image & record that quad view. To play back a camera full-screen they zoom into a quadrant :-\

[08:40:58]

justinh:

course even knowing how pointless my own system is I'm not about to remove it

[08:41:35]

Shadow__X:

hmm right

[08:41:52]

Shadow__X:

so the issue is image quality and actual resolution

[08:41:58]

justinh:

it's just about better than nothing

[08:42:13]

justinh:

yeah, depends on the area you're covering

[08:43:11]

justinh:

if you want the best chance of getting useful images, aim to get a perp's face in at least 1/4 of the frame

[08:43:22]

justinh:

(with conventional cameras)

[08:43:31]

Shadow__X:

ok

[08:43:59]

Shadow__X:

havnt started the system yet but i dont want to make something usefull

[08:44:20]

justinh:

and IR... look for examples of how unrealistic & unrecognisable people can be

[08:45:07]

Saviq:

Shadow__X: "i dont want to make something usefull"?

[08:45:21]

Shadow__X:

i do

[08:45:42]

Shadow__X:

listen its 4:45 here and i have been debugging a script for the past 2 or so hours

[08:50:47]

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[08:59:02]

Dibblah:

justinh: Absolutely not Myth related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6kP6WXRMdM

[08:59:39]

Dibblah:

(Completely work safe, non-funny, ...) – It's me fitting underfloor heating ;)

[09:00:07]

justinh:

heh

[09:00:47]

justinh:

I was doing loft tidying at the weekend again. I still feel dirty despite scrubbing myself like I had OCD afterwards

[09:01:23]

Dibblah:

Yes, I timelapsed myself doing DIY. Does that mean I get my geek badge back?

[09:01:40]

justinh:

4 car loads of junk removed. mostly all boarded now.. need to do something to stop the old roof plaster making even more dust

[09:02:59]

Dibblah:

Plaster above?

[09:04:00]

justinh:

yup

[09:04:02]

justinh:

very old

[09:04:22]

justinh:

we should get re-roofed ideally, but er.. kerching!

[09:04:37]

Dibblah:

Easy way? Spray PVA.

[09:05:01]

Dibblah:

It doesn't form a vapor barrier, but does hold everything together.

[09:05:12]

justinh:

hmmm sounds nift

[09:05:39]

Dibblah:

Dilute PVA down (1:50 or so?), then pump up sprayer...

[09:05:54]

justinh:

also sounds cheap, me like

[09:05:59]

Dibblah:

Be careful not to overdo it on any area or do too much at once.

[09:06:05]

Dibblah:

Wet plaster is HEAVY.

[09:06:26]

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[09:06:34]

justinh:

it's more like a kind of cement this stuff

[09:06:37]

Dibblah:

And heavy combines with old to make gravity happy.

[09:06:43]

justinh:

heh

[09:07:08]

justinh:

thought about just tacking hardboard sheets up to the apex

[09:07:40]

justinh:

also cheap & would stop dust landing directly on things

[09:07:45]

justinh:

could do both I guess

[09:09:12]

justinh:

then again,shrink-wrapping everything valuable we put in the attic is easy too

[09:09:33]

Dibblah:

Indeed. Or treating dust as a protective layer.

[09:09:59]

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[09:17:02]

Dibblah:

Bah. Youtube doesn't have Boots Randolph :(

[09:17:26]

justinh:

ahh yakety sax

[09:18:03]

Dibblah:

It's traditional for timelapse, isn't it?

[09:18:04]

justinh:

should be in every videographer's collection :D

[09:18:18]

Dibblah:

Do all your security installations not dub it in?

[09:18:19]

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[09:18:33]

justinh:

william tell overture? flight of the bumblebee ?

[09:18:54]

justinh:

less cheesy alternatives

[09:20:10]

justinh:

ARGHHH. Stinking KDE crap

[09:20:54]

justinh:

sudo apt-get remove konqueror --force

[09:21:35]

justinh:

****ing pidgin keeps opening it

[09:22:17]

justinh:

KOPEN KONTROL KENTER

[09:22:28]

Shadow__X:

pidgin preferences network configure browser

[09:23:43]

justinh:

so, I hate gnome & kde now

[09:23:48]

justinh:

equally. :)

[09:24:02]

Shadow__X:

i like gnome hate kde

[09:24:13]

Shadow__X:

and why are you hating both

[09:24:20]

Shadow__X:

shut down x then

[09:24:35]

justinh:

they both suck

[09:24:45]

Shadow__X:

whats better

[09:24:54]

justinh:

starts with W

[09:25:04]

Dibblah:

Wanking?

[09:25:13]

justinh:

I could spend days customising my menus of course

[09:25:38]

justinh:

actually gnome had the edge on menu layout.. at least it was kind of logical

[09:25:54]

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[09:31:43]

** justinh sends a patch to improve it **

[09:31:47]

justinh:

rm -rf K*

[09:32:44]

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[09:36:58]

justinh:

cock. House has been nicked from Five by Sly

[09:46:05]

Shadow__X:

what does that mean

[09:47:04]

justinh:

means that new episodes of 'House' will only be shown on Sky. Evil pay TV

[09:47:23]

Shadow__X:

ah thats a noo good

[09:52:30]

Shadow__X:

dont you also get tv shows later than we do in the us

[09:53:09]

justinh:

yeah US tv shows we do

[09:53:17]

justinh:

no great loss

[09:53:54]

Shadow__X:

isnt house a us show

[09:54:58]

justinh:

yup

[09:59:33]

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[10:25:16]

gbee:

Sky's nicked House? Bastards, if they think that will make me pay for Sky they are mistaken though, just strengthens my resolve to hate Sky

[10:26:39]

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[10:26:48]

clever:

i know one or 2 'evil' people who dont pay for any cable and just dl the shows they want

[10:26:53]

clever:

you could go the 'evil' route:P

[10:27:35]

gbee:

Five's explanation smells like bullshit ... they couldn't find a slot for it? WTF? It's was probably their most popular programme

[10:28:15]

clever:

it usualy airs on 2 channels at once here

[10:28:27]

clever:

and it looks like 1 channel is borrowing the feed from the other

[10:28:32]

clever:

the logo's and comercials match

[10:32:34]

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[10:34:05]

gbee:

on reflection though, House had probably run out of steam, format was getting old

[10:35:22]

Shadow__X:

he cares and at times is nice

[10:35:29]

Shadow__X:

UNACCEPTABLE!

[10:36:03]

justinh:

could be worse. could be Casualty

[10:37:47]

Shadow__X:

already has been

[10:37:53]

Shadow__X:

his personality...

[10:39:30]

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[10:47:16]

stuarta:

any word on the reliability of the samsung spinpoint 1Tb drives?

[10:48:39]

stuarta:

like have the 1Tb drives become more reliable lately

[10:53:56]

justinh:

didn't realise the ass had fallen off Samsung's reputation

[10:54:03]

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[10:54:50]

stuarta:

justinh: were they ever bad or was that just the seagates?

[10:55:18]

justinh:

I dunno. just the seagate 1.5TB ones I thought

[10:55:28]

Shadow__X:

seagate 1.5s had issues

[10:55:32]

justinh:

only ones I remember hearing a furore about

[10:55:38]

stuarta:

i'm trying to qualify the current feeling that 1Tb and bigger drives were currently crap

[10:55:48]

stuarta:

are...

[10:56:03]

** justinh pats his 2x 1TB spinpoints **

[10:56:05]

Shadow__X:

i have 1tb drives and knock on wood no issues

[10:56:16]

stuarta:

spinpoints?

[10:56:32]

justinh:

samsungy goodness.mmmm

[10:56:43]

stuarta:

which were the drives suffering from deaths at about 9months?

[10:58:04]

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[10:59:39]

gbee:

stuarta: happy with my Samsung SP 1Tb so far, not sure I trust anything larger yet

[10:59:43]

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[11:00:05]

gbee:

1.5Tb seemed from reports in here to be the most flaky

[11:00:20]

mib_5kjx0e:

Anyone has tried the VDPAU mods for 0.21-fixes? are they safe? or are they buggy ?

[11:00:36]

stuarta:

goodo...

[11:02:46]

gbee:

mib_5kjx0e: personally I'd not trust anything backported from a development branch by a non-developer

[11:03:18]

gbee:

and VDPAU itself is hardly what you'd call stable

[11:04:34]

mib_5kjx0e:

what do you mean a non-developer ? sure the person who did this is a programmer himself ... how else could he do it?

[11:08:42]

gbee:

I mean a MythTV developer

[11:10:32]

gbee:

he took other peoples work, from the development branch, and twisted it to patch 0.21-fixes, non of it is his original code so his understanding of it is probably not as good as the developers who decided it wasn't a candidate for backporting

[11:12:20]

mib_5kjx0e:

I see... so it's buggy or not safe?

[11:14:12]

mib_5kjx0e:

why aren't they going to have vdpau on 0.21 then?

[11:17:17]

mib_5kjx0e:

I see that you seem critical that he took other peoples work... isn't it the point of being open source? it's not like he's making money out of it

[11:19:36]

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[11:21:15]

gbee:

not critical that he used other peoples work, critical that he thought he was a better judge of what is or isn't stable

[11:21:41]

gbee:

features don't get backported to stable code ... in any project, that's not the definition of stable

[11:22:08]

gbee:

new features by their nature are unstable, untested

[11:24:26]

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[11:24:35]

laga:

gbee: he's left already

[11:24:49]

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[11:24:57]

gbee:

hate it when they do that

[11:25:15]

Shadow__X:

lol

[11:25:19]

Shadow__X:

smack em

[11:25:24]

Shadow__X:

have an auto smacker

[11:25:49]

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[11:27:59]

gherk:

Sorry, I got disconnected...

[11:28:35]

gherk:

I was logged as mib_5kjx0e before

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[11:29:28]

mib_fbtaqo:

hi, it's mib_5kjx0e again

[11:29:47]

mib_fbtaqo:

using a web browser to do LIRC; it's not always stable

[11:30:22]

mib_fbtaqo:

gbee wrote "new features by their nature are unstable, untested"

[11:31:20]

mib_fbtaqo:

but do be stable, they have to be tested first, if you say don't use it they aren't tested .. how does it ever become stable?

[11:31:27]

justinh:

by all accounts, using VDPAU with broadcast HD is patchy.. seems it really doesn't like streams with occasional errors

[11:32:02]

justinh:

and those 'errors' might even be little things proper hardware (i.e. codec chipsets) and software decoders cope with just fine

[11:32:49]

justinh:

add to that the fact that vdpau itself is still in beta

[11:33:56]

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[11:34:31]

mib_fbtaqo:

I see ... thanks... looks like I have to buy a new computer then.. I can't do HD right now... that's a pity

[11:34:35]

mib_fbtaqo:

thank you all for your help

[11:34:37]

justinh:

there is no,and never has been any substitute for using CPU & dedicated hardware (i.e. decoder chipsets) for video playback

[11:34:56]

mib_fbtaqo:

I don't understand

[11:35:08]

mib_fbtaqo:

isn't vdpau a dedicated hardware ?

[11:35:12]

justinh:

nope

[11:35:19]

mib_fbtaqo:

i mean, that's the gpu doing to work no ?

[11:35:30]

justinh:

it's using the GPU yes sure

[11:35:32]

mib_fbtaqo:

sounds more dedicated to me that using a cpu

[11:35:59]

mib_fbtaqo:

what the difference between a decoder hardware located in a GPU and a decoder chipset?

[11:36:05]

justinh:

maybe, but when it's known not to cope with things STB chipsets can deal with without problems...

[11:36:38]

mib_fbtaqo:

what do you mean not to cope?

[11:36:56]

justinh:

I mean certain streams causing the GPU to lock up... things like that

[11:36:59]

mib_fbtaqo:

the people on the nvidia forums seems quite happy with vdpau, they keep raving about it

[11:37:13]

justinh:

depends what they feed it

[11:37:43]

Shadow__X:

also isnt it a bit mature on the windows side

[11:38:09]

justinh:

more mature than on linux, sure

[11:38:19]

mib_fbtaqo:

i thought vdpau was linux only

[11:38:24]

justinh:

in time maybe it'll live up to the hype

[11:38:46]

justinh:

right now it's nothing more than an experimental feature

[11:39:34]

mib_fbtaqo:

ah.... I thought it was stable... nvidia put it in their stable drivers now... it's listed on their main drivers page

[11:39:38]

justinh:

VDPAU is linux only, but HD decoding on the GPU has been around in windows for longer

[11:39:52]

justinh:

and VDPAU is still a beta feature even in stable drivers

[11:40:17]

mib_fbtaqo:

look here

[11:40:18]

mib_fbtaqo:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_180.44.html

[11:40:43]

mib_fbtaqo:

they say they fixed problem on corrupted stream

[11:41:06]

justinh:

*A* problem

[11:41:30]

justinh:

on *some* streams

[11:41:31]

mib_fbtaqo:

"Improved VDPAU's handling of some corrupt H.264 streams, and some corrupt/invalid MPEG streams on some GPUs."

[11:41:51]

justinh:

'improved' does not mean 'good' or 'perfect'

[11:42:23]

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[11:43:50]

justinh:

it might well be that everything you feed it turns out to be fine

[11:44:16]

justinh:

as with so many users, but if you're one of the less lucky souls you won't be so happy :P

[11:44:40]

mib_fbtaqo:

how do you become a mythtv developer?

[11:44:48]

justinh:

what anybody here will say is that "yeah, it's ok, but it's not all that yet"

[11:44:57]

stuarta:

by proving you can write good code

[11:45:12]

mib_fbtaqo:

ah? gbee said not to use it

[11:45:45]

justinh:

I wouldn't use what some jerk has decided should be a new feature in released packages

[11:46:00]

mib_fbtaqo:

who is a jerk?

[11:46:22]

justinh:

the guy who decided to fork mythtv by backporting the vdpau patches

[11:46:45]

grokky:

then asking people to donate money for his efforts.

[11:47:02]

justinh:

he did? oof!

[11:47:24]

grokky:

on his website. he's asking for donations to pay for his hardware.

[11:47:24]

mib_fbtaqo:

that's not a very nice thing to say... he obviously did that to help people

[11:47:47]

justinh:

there's been a very long established policy of not including new features in released code by backporting

[11:47:53]

justinh:

he went against that

[11:48:10]

justinh:

there are lots of good reasons why it wasn't a good idea

[11:48:15]

mib_fbtaqo:

and that make you a jerk?

[11:49:05]

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[11:49:37]

justinh:

calling him a jerk might seem strong, but not as strong as what he went around calling the dev team

[11:49:56]

mib_fbtaqo:

what did he call them?

[11:50:01]

justinh:

fascists, IIRC

[11:50:27]

justinh:

anyway.. you can use unsupported software if you want

[11:50:44]

justinh:

YMMV, but don't come crying to anybody here if it goes wrong

[11:50:54]

mib_fbtaqo:

it sounds like an episode of Bold and the Beautiful :)

[11:51:06]

mib_fbtaqo:

so much politics

[11:51:19]

justinh:

there's no politics

[11:52:01]

stuarta:

it's 1 guy going against the entire development team backporting a feature that is incomplete and not deemed finished

[11:52:01]

mib_fbtaqo:

it seems that there is ...

[11:52:23]

stuarta:

when it's finished, will be about the same time 0.22 comes out

[11:52:41]

stuarta:

ie. when it's actually ready to go mainstream

[11:53:00]

mib_fbtaqo:

i don't understand why you would consider a person is going "against the entire development team"

[11:53:06]

mib_fbtaqo:

just by making a feature more available

[11:53:29]

laga:

this conversation is a waste of time IMHO

[11:54:12]

justinh:

yup. just like all the mailing list threads, the accusations & name calling

[11:54:14]

mib_fbtaqo:

looks like Xbmc supports mythtv and vdpau now... maybe I should use that instead of mythtv

[11:54:29]

justinh:

good luck with that

[11:54:56]

mib_fbtaqo:

well, it's supported and I don't have to buy a new pc

[11:55:07]

mib_fbtaqo:

thank you all again ... interesting stuff

[11:55:22]

justinh:

if you can get a word in edgeways on their forums

[11:55:36]

justinh:

mmmmm 99 page long threads

[11:55:43]

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[11:56:05]

stuarta:

bye

[11:56:51]

** laga ponders mounting his old laptop under the couch table as a frontend **

[11:56:56]

laga:

then i'd just need to hook up the LCD

[11:57:12]

justinh:

I love that. Muh,well I'll just go use something else. like it'll make anyone care

[11:57:35]

clever:

ive seen sites that explain how to add a extension to the lcd cable in laptops

[11:57:38]

clever:

for carpc's

[11:58:11]

laga:

clever: yeah. i'd just need a clever way to slide it out.. otoh, 14.1" is a bit small

[11:58:41]

clever:

yeah once the LCD is working on 3 foot cord you just need a way to support it

[12:00:56]

** stuarta says fish several times **

[12:01:04]

laga:

still not smaller than my 22" which sits 3m away on my desk

[12:01:05]

laga:

stuarta: ?

[12:01:20]

stuarta:

!trout laga

[12:01:20]

** MythLogBot slaps laga with a trout on behalf of stuarta... **

[12:01:28]

stuarta:

ah there's the fish

[12:01:38]

laga:

stuarta: what?

[12:01:41]

laga:

i'm on a budget ;)

[12:01:46]

** stuarta suffers random insanity **

[12:01:57]

justinh:

wooo more despair.. mythtvtalk.com/forum

[12:02:47]

laga:

oh, sweet. new software

[12:04:38]

clever:

laga: http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/laptops-table . . . p-carpc.html

[12:05:12]

laga:

clever: thanks

[12:05:24]

clever:

theres tons of usefull info in that site

[12:05:37]

clever:

just try to avoid installing 2 frontends in the van with a DVB-T receiver:P

[12:06:52]

clever:

the thread i linked also explains how to turn the laptop on/off with a added button

[12:07:20]

laga:

yeah, that's going to be a concern

[12:07:28]

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[12:07:42]

clever:

'You will need to extend 2 wires outside of the laptop to be able to control startup & shutdown'

[12:08:30]

clever:

'one alternative to the power switch approach is a wake on ring or wake on lan type setup, but this only works on some boards...'

[12:09:16]

laga:

this is the table i've got: http://www.ikea.com/de/de/catalog/products/40153072

[12:09:31]

laga:

i could get a big TFT with a modified VESA mounted maybe

[12:09:55]

justinh:

get the juski table. it's mega unstable though

[12:10:04]

clever:

http://gallery.earthtools.ca/index.py/laptop/img_3088.jpg

[12:10:22]

laga:

justinh: am i missing a joke?

[12:10:45]

clever:

if you cut 2 small slots for the hinge legs, you could just drop the whole lcd in like normal

[12:10:47]

justinh:

all ikea stuff has stupid names ;)

[12:11:06]

clever:

depends on the design of the laptop hinges

[12:11:35]

laga:

clever: i guess i couldn't because of that rack under the table

[12:11:37]

justinh:

IIRC they used to have a table called 'juski'.. or something very similar

[12:12:13]

justinh:

you wouldn't want that though, it'd go around throwing tantrums & deleting crap

[12:12:19]

clever:

laga: it depends on how your laptop goes together and if your willing to slice the table up a little

[12:12:40]

laga:

i guess those 19" rack manufacturers have slide-out screens

[12:13:10]

justinh:

they ain't gonna be cheap unless you can buy 2nd hand

[12:13:12]

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[12:13:15]

laga:

justinh: yep

[12:13:16]

clever:

the 'ribbon' for my d630 and d600 laptops is actualy a cord, so the panel is alot more movable

[12:13:22]

clever:

though its a bit short

[12:13:36]

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[12:13:44]

GrahamIRC:

afternoon all

[12:14:08]

GrahamIRC:

just reading back through some of todays history......

[12:14:10]

laga:

i guess i might be looking at a modified drawer approach

[12:14:29]

justinh:

wish I'd made the board the bathroom shower is mounted on a little deeper now

[12:14:30]

GrahamIRC:

I've got 4 1.5TB seagates that seem to be running ok for the last few month

[12:14:57]

justinh:

could've smacked a tft in there.. they're mad cheap now

[12:17:06]

clever:

theres 3 layers of drywall in my bathrooth wall

[12:17:17]

clever:

2 fully isolated pockets

[12:17:54]

clever:

they extended the wall out some for the pipes from the shower

[12:18:12]

clever:

you could fit a whole desktop tower in there:P

[12:18:13]

laga:

i could also mount the 32" TV sideways to the couch and only pull it out when i watch TV. but i don't think there are 1.5m long vesa mounts

[12:18:37]

** justinh hands laga some Dexion angle brackets **

[12:19:18]

laga:

justinh: hum. *scratches chin*

[12:19:21]

stuarta:

couple of bits of 4x2 and you can do anything

[12:19:21]

justinh:

TVmounting kit is vastly overpriced for what it is

[12:19:46]

justinh:

steel plate, HSS drill bits, some bolts...

[12:21:07]

stuarta:

job done :)

[12:21:33]

laga:

there will nee to be some hinges if i were to mount the 22" tft under the couch table (back to that idea)

[12:21:57]

justinh:

ROFLMAO. we launch a product that hasn't even been for EMC test, this week

[12:23:15]

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[12:24:06]

justinh:

wonder how touch panels like 15kV shoved up em

[12:24:18]

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[12:24:24]

laga:

http://www.monitorhalterung.de/bildschirme-bi . . . ug-fuer.html – this is what i need. just wish it was cheaper :)

[12:25:01]

justinh:

stealing makes things cheaper

[12:25:29]

laga:

good idea

[12:27:13]

justinh:

ouchy. Paul McCartney said TPB verdict was 'fair'. Big surprise

[12:27:17]

justinh:

ban the interweb!

[12:27:34]

stuarta:

ooo, er. oracle bought sun for a tad over 7 billion dollars

[12:28:24]

justinh:

:-O

[12:29:02]

justinh:

a tad... 400 milion

[12:32:25]

laga:

please let virtualbox survive :(

[12:32:43]

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[12:33:18]

justinh:

and mysql

[12:33:26]

justinh:

and openoffice

[12:33:44]

justinh:

actually they can have OO

[12:33:57]

justinh:

they can keep java too

[12:34:15]

justinh:

and the fracking yahoo toolbar stealth installer

[12:37:24]

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** stuarta goes quietly mad... **

[13:26:17]

AndyCap:

so now mythtv will run on oracle? :P

[13:26:45]

laga:

stuarta: ?

[13:27:18]

stuarta:

laga: ?

[13:27:44]

laga:

why are you going mad?

[13:27:55]

stuarta:

i don't need a reason :-p

[13:28:36]

laga:

true

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[14:47:03]

FR^2:

Hiho

[14:50:16]

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FR^2:

Hmm. All the entries of the wiki concerning HDMI lack certain information, especially on sound...

[15:03:31]

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[15:03:51]

stuarta:

feel free to fill it in with any information you find

[15:04:19]

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[15:06:35]

FR^2:

I will.

[15:07:18]

sid3windr:

#6480 ... it does, doesn't it?!

[15:13:24]

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[15:14:55]

g4lv4tr0n:

hi ive just got lirc working and i tried it in mythtv but only some of the buttons work. when testing remote with irw all buttons work ?

[15:15:17]

g4lv4tr0n:

do i have to configure mythtv to use my new lircrc file ?

[15:16:02]

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[15:17:29]

cesman:

g4lv4tr0n: lircrc should be in ~/.mythtv, but restart the frontend after making any changes

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[15:21:34]

g4lv4tr0n:

hmm the correct file is there but the menu and guide (mapped to I & M) buttons arnt working in mythtv

[15:21:56]

g4lv4tr0n:

but work with irw

[15:22:34]

g4lv4tr0n:

prog = mythtv

[15:22:34]

g4lv4tr0n:

remote = Hauppauge

[15:22:34]

g4lv4tr0n:

button = Menu

[15:22:34]

g4lv4tr0n:

repeat = 2

[15:22:34]

g4lv4tr0n:

config = M

[15:22:46]

cesman:

g4lv4tr0n: use pastebin

[15:24:15]

B-Man:

g4lv4tr0n, what hauppage card did you get?

[15:24:27]

g4lv4tr0n:

1110

[15:24:41]

g4lv4tr0n:

hvr

[15:25:16]

g4lv4tr0n:

works well for freeview with mythtv

[15:26:42]

** superdump is trying to find a dual tuner dvb-t card that's not too expensive **

[15:26:53]

superdump:

the nova-t 500 seems scarce in the UK

[15:27:18]

stuarta:

i picked up the nova-td 500 usb, works just fine

[15:28:06]

g4lv4tr0n:

on mythtv you can dual tune channels on different transponders

[15:28:13]

g4lv4tr0n:

with single card

[15:28:21]

g4lv4tr0n:

like what pip does

[15:28:39]

g4lv4tr0n:

or you could just get 2 cheap cards

[15:29:37]

iamlindoro:

superdump: I don't have an idea of what price ranges look like over there, but the new DVB-T/C HDHomeRun might be a consideration too

[15:29:52]

stuarta:

iamlindoro: i don't think the hdhomerun is out here yet

[15:29:58]

superdump:

aha

[15:30:06]

wombo:

by there do you mean Aus?

[15:30:07]

iamlindoro:

stuarta: No? Just .au still?

[15:30:08]

superdump:

ebuyer.com have some stock of the nova-td 500 pci

[15:30:17]

superdump:

stuarta: i wanted a pci card :)

[15:30:20]

wombo:

RRP in aus is $399

[15:30:22]

wombo:

sorry 299

[15:30:33]

stuarta:

g4lv4tr0n: what are you talking about? you can tune multiple channels on the same mux, not on different ones with a single card

[15:30:42]

iamlindoro:

superdump: You could wait to pounce on stoth, he should have a driver out for the HVR-2200 shortly

[15:30:51]

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[15:30:56]

iamlindoro:

superdump: Which would give you 2x DVB-T and 2x analog

[15:30:58]

stuarta:

superdump: most of the pci cards are really the usb tuner + pci <-> usb glue

[15:31:05]

superdump:

i see

[15:31:19]

iamlindoro:

It's PCIe, though, dunno if that will do the trick

[15:31:41]

stuarta:

so i figured it was easier to reset a usb device rather than reboot the pc to reset the pci based usb device.

[15:31:42]

superdump:

iamlindoro: they're in the process of turning off analogue here so i don't really care about that

[15:31:43]

superdump:

:)

[15:31:53]

superdump:

that's a fair point

[15:32:12]

stuarta:

also, if i ever get a laptop, i can just move it over...

[15:32:14]

iamlindoro:

superdump: Sure, never hurts to have the inputs in a pinch, though (The analogs are hardware encoders too, so not bad for input from a "dumb" source)

[15:33:02]

superdump:

the usb is more expensive

[15:33:09]

superdump:

from ebuyer.com at least

[15:33:18]

g4lv4tr0n:

if i run sudo /etc/init.d/lirc start : lircd-0.8.4a[7000]: lircd(devinput) ready

[15:33:33]

g4lv4tr0n:

then start myth frontend

[15:33:41]

stuarta:

i went the dark side (aka pcworld) and it was still only 45 quid

[15:33:58]

superdump:

only £48 for the pci and £55 for the usb

[15:34:05]

superdump:

hmm, might be worth a look on their site then

[15:34:07]

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[15:34:20]

g4lv4tr0n:

lircd-0.8.4a[7000]: accepted new client on /dev/lircd

[15:34:21]

g4lv4tr0n:

lircd-0.8.4a[7000]: initializing '/dev/input/event7'

[15:34:21]

g4lv4tr0n:

lircd-0.8.4a[7000]: removed client

[15:34:21]

g4lv4tr0n:

lircd-0.8.4a[7000]: closing '/dev/input/event7'

[15:34:26]

RDV_Linux:

iamlindoro: Do you have any thoughts or knowledge of the direction of the inetref field to identify the source of the metadata. Right now IMDB for movies and Series id for TV. The new patch for tmdb.pl changes IMDB to themoviedb reference numbers.

[15:34:28]

RDV_Linux:

Personally I would like to see inetref (which is 255 characters long) be a comma delimited field with as many source numbers as was used to get metadata and graphics. e.g. for the movie "Wanted" inetref would be "moviedb:8909, imdb:0493464". I think this adds flexibility to accommodate many sources.

[15:34:29]

perscitus:

Hallo

[15:34:30]

iamlindoro:

second time... pastebin

[15:35:03]

perscitus:

How do you scan for channels?

[15:35:05]

superdump:

stuarta: £60 on the pcworld site

[15:35:10]

iamlindoro:

RDV_Linux: Putting multiple pieces of info into one DB field is unlikely to happen, it breaks the convention set everywhere else in MythTV

[15:35:17]

stuarta:

interesting

[15:35:31]

iamlindoro:

RDV_Linux: Anduin will be adding a field for the last used grabber

[15:35:42]

g4lv4tr0n:

why does it remove and close /dev/input/evevt7 straight after it accepts connection ?

[15:36:01]

iamlindoro:

RDV_Linux: Besides, that patch comes with a script that converts you entirely to TMDB #s so it's sort of a non-issue

[15:36:48]

perscitus:

How do you scan for channels, in mythtv or external program?

[15:37:31]

superdump:

stuarta: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/123725 <--- quad tuner anyone ;)

[15:37:32]

superdump:

?

[15:38:24]

stuarta:

oo er...

[15:38:30]

superdump:

iamlindoro: pci-e is fine if it works. i just bought me a core i7 machine :)

[15:38:40]

dewman:

thats pretty cool. wonder if there is something for ntsc

[15:38:44]

RDV_Linux:

There seems to be data gaps so I use multiple sources to get the most complete information. The last used does not cut it in those cases. Right now themoviedb has too many gaps compared to my collection. I do not like empty fields and those question mark icons. By using a combination of sources I get it all.

[15:38:45]

Dibblah:

perscitus: I would suggest finding and following an install guide. mythtv-setup is the answer to your specific question.

[15:38:51]

iamlindoro:

superdump: Saw that quote the other day about ffmpeg compiliing in 22 seconds... slick :)

[15:38:54]

stuarta:

and you are concerned about the usb part costing an extra 7 quid!!!!

[15:39:01]

perscitus:

Dibblah-> Zero results for a search.

[15:39:07]

stuarta:

try harder

[15:39:22]

perscitus:

Dibblah-> and setup does a channel scan box but disabled.

[15:39:43]

Dibblah:

www.mythtv.org

[15:39:47]

Dibblah:

Documentation

[15:39:53]

stuarta:

put "mythtv installation guide" into justfuckinggoogleit.com

[15:39:58]

perscitus:

Dibblah-> again, ZERO results

[15:40:02]

stuarta:

try harder

[15:40:11]

superdump:

iamlindoro: i think that was mru, he's just got one too but he got the 940 i think and it was 26 seconds. it takes about 30 seconds for me, but that's good enough and i could overclock it if i really cared ;)

[15:40:13]

iamlindoro:

Zero results for going to a web site and clicking the giant word at the top?

[15:40:38]

iamlindoro:

superdump: Oh no, what are you going to do to fill the extra four seconds? ;)

[15:40:39]

** stuarta commences voting eurovision style **

[15:40:44]

stuarta:

nil points!

[15:40:44]

perscitus:

stuarta-> Welcome to ignore

[15:40:56]

stuarta:

perscitus: it's not difficult

[15:41:03]

superdump:

stuarta: some money was directed at me from work specifically for buying a new pc and i couldn't quite fit the tv card into the budget but i didn't want to back down :D

[15:41:20]

superdump:

i'll get the pci card anyway

[15:41:22]

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[15:41:42]

stuarta:

there is documentation on the website, and at bare minimum working your way through mythtv-setup from step 1 all the way to step 7, will get you there

[15:42:05]

stuarta:

superdump: i wouldn't knock that back either

[15:42:28]

perscitus:

There is no installation guide. zero results from google

[15:42:31]

dewman:

is there any HD cards that work pretty decent without to much legwork?

[15:42:47]

iamlindoro:

RDV_Linux: My personal philosophy says that myth has enough toggles, switches and configuration options as it is-- I would probably strongly resist any drive to use multiple grabbers for a single MythVideo file unless it could be done in an *extremely* user friendly fashion

[15:43:01]

wombo:

perscitus, look harder and you will find heaps of guides

[15:43:20]

perscitus:

wombo-> nothing on mythtv domains

[15:43:23]

iamlindoro:

RDV_Linux: Personally I feel that People should be using TMDB and TVDB because it will *force* them to improve the quality of the data sources

[15:43:30]

dewman:

I'm new and I found a whole slew of them. Results 1 – 10 of about 262,000 for mytv installation guide. (0.27 seconds)

[15:43:31]

wombo:

try the Mythtv wiki

[15:43:48]

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[15:43:53]

dewman:

and I even spelled it wrong. =)

[15:44:06]

perscitus:

wombo-> that place as useful as .. well nothing.

[15:44:18]

wombo:

dewman which country do you live in

[15:44:19]

laga:

can we kick the troll?

[15:44:28]

dewman:

I live in the us.....

[15:44:31]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o stuarta

[15:44:34]

wombo:

lol he is going in my ignore list as well

[15:44:40]

iamlindoro:

adios

[15:44:49]

perscitus has been kicked from #mythtv-users by stuarta!n=stuarta@unaffiliated/stuarta (come back when you can read and use a search engine)

[15:44:50]

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[15:44:54]

perscitus has been kicked from #mythtv-users by stuarta!n=stuarta@unaffiliated/stuarta (come back when you can read and use a search engine)

[15:44:55]

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[15:44:56]

laga:

auto rejoin

[15:44:58]

laga:

yay

[15:45:03]

wombo:

I think the HD Homeruns are very popular and easy to configure

[15:45:03]

iamlindoro:

ban, yay!

[15:45:23]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o GreyFoxx

[15:45:28]

dewman:

wombo I just got a front end and a back end running, but I dont have a capture card yet. I wanted to get the install up and going before i dug in and got the card.

[15:45:32]

wombo:

thats about all I know about the US as im an aussie

[15:45:39]

Mode for #mythtv-users by GreyFoxx!i=greg@out.of.phaze.org : +b *!*@udp229143uds.hawaiiantel.net

[15:45:49]

perscitus has been kicked from #Mythtv-users by GreyFoxx!i=greg@out.of.phaze.org (Character is what you are in the dark.)

[15:46:00]

stuarta:

ta

[15:46:00]

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[15:46:07]

AndyCap:

haha

[15:46:28]

GreyFoxx:

[12:46pm][perscitus(n=perscitu@udp229143uds.hawaiiantel.net )] Why?

[15:46:30]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[15:46:31]

AndyCap:

maybe his webfilter ate the data. :P

[15:46:35]

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[15:46:56]

GreyFoxx:

man ... it sucks being home from vacation

[15:47:11]

iamlindoro:

How does one live in Hawaii and still end up so unpleasant?

[15:47:14]

Dibblah:

GreyFoxx: No, it sucks having chicken pox.

[15:47:27]

GreyFoxx:

i week with no computer, no real tv, no cell phone.... it was fscking glorious

[15:47:28]

wombo:

has anyone got any information or examples of how Mythweb interacts with the Mythtv database?

[15:47:30]

dewman:

wombo:that thing looks pretty cool!

[15:47:39]

Dibblah:

Coming home from vacation is just... Mildly nasty :(

[15:47:43]

dewman:

Thanks for the information. =)

[15:47:46]

wombo:

I want to add a page to my system to do some web queries

[15:47:55]

GreyFoxx:

Dibblah: Been thee done that 30 years ago :)

[15:47:58]

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[15:48:00]

wombo:

dewman, yeah I am thinking about getting one myself

[15:48:01]

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[15:48:03]

Dibblah:

Yeah, I wish I had.

[15:48:10]

AndyCap:

iamlindoro: what's it called, sunstroke.

[15:48:15]

Dibblah:

(Adult version – Not fun)

[15:48:22]

FR^2:

Dibblah: Cut-Me-Own-Throat-Dibblah? Cut-Me-Own-Hand-Off Dhblah? Which one are you? ;)

[15:49:06]

Mode for #mythtv-users by stuarta!n=stuarta@unaffiliated/stuarta : -o stuarta

[15:49:45]

iamlindoro:

Sorry to hear about the demotion

[15:49:56]

iamlindoro:

You'll get there again, buddy

[15:50:03]

Mode for #mythtv-users by GreyFoxx!i=greg@out.of.phaze.org : -o GreyFoxx

[15:50:08]

iamlindoro:

Sheesh, it's catching

[15:50:22]

RDV_Linux:

iamlindoro: I thought that was was your position. With my collection having a lot of old movies I think it will be a long time before themoviedb will catch up. I do not have non-copyright graphics to add for those movies. I may get back to you on this one, but my new memory just arrived.

[15:50:24]

Dibblah:

Noone likes to admit to holding the banstick.

[15:50:55]

GreyFoxx:

havin an @ invites newbies to /msg you directly

[15:51:03]

GreyFoxx:

rather than ask stuff in open chanel

[15:51:10]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -v jams

[15:51:26]

iamlindoro:

RDV_Linux: IMO if people want to use multiple grabbers on a single record they can script up their own way to do it-- I'm more interested in streamlining the process and taking the complexity out of it

[15:51:54]

** iamlindoro would be dangerous with the banstick **

[15:52:01]

iamlindoro:

probably best left to the grownups

[15:52:44]

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[15:53:12]

iamlindoro:

Not that the channel couldn't use a little proactive banning ;)

[15:53:13]

stuarta:

he gets worse, he pm'd me -> "[16:48] <perscitus> You are disrespectful and rude to people. Especially people WHO ACTUALLY USE GOOGLE AND MYTHTV wiki to find out FIRST.

[15:53:16]

stuarta:

hah

[15:53:19]

stuarta:

/ignored

[15:53:22]

GreyFoxx:

I worked out my @ power issues almost 2 decades ago :)

[15:53:35]

stuarta:

i'm a bit rusty on the +b stuff

[15:54:01]

GreyFoxx:

heh told me to bann you for being rude to him:)

[15:54:17]

stuarta:

hah!

[15:54:19]

AndyCap:

stuarta: and I thought he had ignored you already :P

[15:54:26]

bulle:

im for to DEMAND that you google and read the dox for me!! of course for free, you are here so therefor my slaves to be commanded at all times !

[15:54:30]

** stuarta slips GreyFoxx a fiver **

[15:54:47]

bulle:

sadly i dont have a question to DEMAND an answear for, right now =(

[15:55:06]

GreyFoxx:

oi 700 photod to organise from this week

[15:55:10]

EvilBob:

I am looking for a personal suggestion for a remote that I can buy new for a Frontend

[15:55:21]

AndyCap:

EvilBob: no you're not. :P

[15:55:28]

bulle:

EvilBob: the mce remote works ok imho

[15:55:29]

GreyFoxx:

the mce remotes are nice

[15:55:34]

iamlindoro:

Hmmm, a personal suggestion eh?

[15:55:49]

EvilBob:

iamlindoro: yeah something that someone else likes

[15:55:52]

iamlindoro:

OK, stop using the spray-on deodorant, that stuff does NOT work as well as you think it does

[15:56:07]

sphery:

heh, he's back...

[15:56:10]

AndyCap:

EvilBob: Gyration MCE remote. but I'm probably a minority

[15:56:33]

superdump:

there we go, on Nova-T 500 PCI card on its way to me :) whoop whoop

[15:57:15]

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[15:57:17]

EvilBob:

AndyCap: I set up my Backend (4 tuners) and 2 combo front/backends yesterday, have a couple more rooms I would like to have Frontends in

[15:57:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

EvilBob: I Second, third, fourth (whatever we're up to) the suggestion for the MS MCE remote... ;-)

[15:57:39]

FR^2:

superdump: Which kind is that?

[15:57:49]

superdump:

dual tuner dvb-t

[15:57:53]

B-Man:

EvilBob, You doing this wirelessly?

[15:57:59]

bulle:

AndyCap: gyration mce remote, thats some sort of thingy you can use like a wii controller ? but also as an mce remote ?

[15:58:23]

EvilBob:

I appreciate everyone's suggestion on the MS MCE remote

[15:58:29]

Dibblah:

Oh – I'm sure someone was asking about these a while ago: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt . . . 220383957221

[15:58:32]

AndyCap:

bulle: yeah. and they were reasonably priced when CC had a sale on them, but they're probably a tad expensive now

[15:58:36]

Dibblah:

PCIe -> PCI risers.

[15:58:36]

EvilBob:

B-Man: no all hardwired Gigabit

[15:58:44]

FR^2:

superdump: Ah. I have a hauppage nova-t usb, but since I moved, I only get about 12 channels (before, I got about 32)

[15:58:57]

Dibblah:

ie it's a PCI-e to PCI bridge chip.

[15:59:05]

iamlindoro:

Dibblah: They have some neato ones that go to a 4x card breakout box too, cool stuff

[15:59:09]

AndyCap:

Dibblah: heh, and a lot cheaper than magma,com's

[15:59:11]

bulle:

AndyCap: im just using a normal mce remote, and a logitec mouse that has similar gyro functionality, that works kind of well aswell

[15:59:14]

B-Man:

EvilBob, How arey ou outputting to the TV?

[15:59:15]

bulle:

AndyCap: but, its two devices

[15:59:21]

EvilBob:

B-Man: I gave up on the Wireless idea a few years ago

[15:59:26]

Dibblah:

I like the Magma enclosures myself.

[15:59:36]

Dibblah:

But _slightly_ out of my price range :(

[15:59:44]

bulle:

AndyCap: ouch, those thingies are horribly expensive here

[15:59:47]

AndyCap:

Dibblah: ever so slightly. :P

[15:59:57]

EvilBob:

B-Man: have a nVidia card with Svideo, most Frontends only have Monitors

[16:00:15]

EvilBob:

B-Man: We only own one TV

[16:00:28]

B-Man:

EvilBob, Gotcha

[16:00:35]

AndyCap:

the fiire chief has a slightly cooler firmware, but even more expensive iirc.

[16:00:58]

B-Man:

EvilBob, I have been looking for a way to setup my living room TV with MythTV but cords are not an option :-P

[16:01:06]

skluss:

are there any performance issues running myth on the ext4 filesystem? has it been attempted?

[16:01:07]

EvilBob:

B-Man: Planning on buying a big screen in the next couple months so the TV Room will need a Video Card Upgrade

[16:01:48]

EvilBob:

B-Man: Yeah the place I just moved in to has a couple dozen ethernet jacks

[16:02:13]

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[16:02:14]

EvilBob:

B-Man: and a reasonable network closet to go with it

[16:02:20]

B-Man:

EvilBob, Well I have my TV already but I really would rather not hook up a box next to the TV in order to provide the video but wireless HDMI is just out of the question

[16:03:09]

bulle:

i was talking about hd-pvr with someone here on channel, is there someone here using those things right now ?

[16:03:32]

EvilBob:

B-Man: we picked up some small form factor HP Boxes that we will be able to mount behind the HD LCD TV

[16:03:43]

bulle:

im mainly woundering about how many devices will be supported, only one ? and if so, can i get away with two, if i for example use an extra usb host device expansion card or similar ?

[16:04:07]

B-Man:

EvilBob, Nice

[16:04:20]

EvilBob:

B-Man: the wall mount area has network, Coax and power

[16:04:26]

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[16:05:09]

AndyCap:

EvilBob: are they quiet?

[16:05:33]

EvilBob:

AndyCap: Very

[16:06:02]

** sphery wonders if popping into #mythtv and asking a question about trunk to which you get the response that (basically) "it's not finished" is a good reason to submit a new ticket **

[16:06:12]

sphery:

i.e. for what's an already-known "issue"

[16:06:34]

iamlindoro:

sphery: *Think* he added the ticket before asking in #mythtv

[16:06:41]

iamlindoro:

The Vladimir guy one?

[16:06:48]

sphery:

ahh...

[16:06:49]

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[16:06:50]

sphery:

yeah

[16:07:08]

sphery:

iamlindoro: oh, and the response to your question in trac is exactly why I hate packaged trunk versions

[16:07:29]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Yeah, very much a non-answer too

[16:07:48]

sphery:

"what rev?" "Well, I don't know as I can't be bothered to compile revisions myself, so I'll just let you know the versions that I have used/that the packager used"

[16:09:28]

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[16:11:56]

skluss:

does anyone have an example of a video card capable of pulling HD OTA and unencrypted digital cable in the US while doing the encoding on the card? i've been patiently looking through the out-of-date wikis and things and would like a straight answer

[16:12:21]

GreyFoxx:

They don't need to do encoding

[16:12:29]

GreyFoxx:

It's transmitted preencoded

[16:12:40]

bulle:

skluss: encoding ? if its digital tv, its alreay encoded, so all the card does is dump the data to the harddrive basicly

[16:12:45]

GreyFoxx:

as long as your card can read it (unencrypted) then you are good to go

[16:13:02]

Dibblah:

Except for non-standard-streams issues.

[16:13:08]

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[16:13:17]

bulle:

and as of what to use in the us, i have no idea, i live in europe, here all cable companies use dvb-c

[16:13:29]

bulle:

and then i would get one of the hauppauge dvb-c 1500 budget cards

[16:13:30]

Dibblah:

... Since cable operators generally assume it's their playground and they can ignore as much of the standard as they like.

[16:13:33]

stuarta:

atsc generally

[16:14:01]

bulle:

stuarta: oh, i thought atsc was ota only, but its used in cable aswell ?

[16:14:23]

sphery:

basically the same, though the modulation differs

[16:14:25]

stuarta:

can be, cable is also qam64 mpeg

[16:14:30]

sphery:

just need QAM modulation support

[16:14:59]

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[16:15:00]

sphery:

TTBOMK, the closest equivalent to the hauppuage dvb-c 1500 budget cards for the US would be the Hauppauge HVR-1250

[16:15:17]

sphery:

but check out linuxtv.org for a list of supported ones

[16:15:25]

skluss:

so anything with ATSC and QAM support will pull the HD content i want?

[16:15:47]

sphery:

presuming it is, in fact, unencrypted, yes

[16:16:25]

sphery:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_Devices

[16:16:53]

FR^2:

Hmm. I'm too dumb to find the manual for my "asus en9800gt top/htdp" in the internet.

[16:16:59]

iamlindoro:

Note that unencrypted HD material will be, in 99.99% of cases, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, and the Cw

[16:17:02]

sphery:

not that some cable co's use QAM64 and others (most?) use QAM256, too, so...

[16:17:13]

sphery:

s/not/note/

[16:17:25]

iamlindoro:

Stop starting sentences the same way I do

[16:17:30]

skluss:

i was already looking there and was supprised to only see one hauppauge card listed under supported pci cards

[16:17:50]

sphery:

yeah, in other words, unencrypted HDTV on cable networks is basically the same channels you could get with an antenna and no cable bill :)

[16:18:02]

sphery:

(assuming that's technically feasible in your case)

[16:18:24]

** iamlindoro grumbles and shakes his fist at the mountain he lives on **

[16:18:32]

sphery:

yeah, the switch was late enough that PCIe was already well entrenched by the time Hauppauge got into the digital US market

[16:18:33]

skluss:

which is what i'm going for

[16:19:10]

sphery:

I have 4 of the pcHDTV HD-3000's, but its successor is overpriced compared to competitors

[16:19:28]

sphery:

The Avermedia A180 is often available cheap (should be able to get it for $50 or so)

[16:19:33]

sphery:

both are PCI

[16:20:00]

skluss:

i am looking to build a completely new backend so i'm not stuck to a PCI interface

[16:20:52]

sphery:

HVR-1250 (pcie) is generally pretty low-priced and capable

[16:21:42]

sphery:

that being, from what I've heard--I haven't used it

[16:23:04]

bulle:

seems no one sells a dvb-c card here, that is pci-e and takes a CAM, they are all pci, for some wierd reason

[16:23:22]

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[16:23:23]

bulle:

and with motherboards today, only having one or if you are lucky two pci slots, its pretty annoying

[16:23:25]

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[16:24:17]

Dibblah:

bulle: Well, since the only PCI-e bridge chip is only very recently semi-supported...

[16:24:47]

Dibblah:

(ie the video -> PCIe, not an internal PCI-e -> PCI bridge)

[16:25:24]

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[16:25:45]

bulle:

hmm, internal pci-e pci bridges, do they exist, in any generic form, eg something you can use on a general slot ?

[16:25:58]

Dibblah:

bulle: See ebay link ^^^

[16:26:10]

Dibblah:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt . . . 220383957221

[16:26:16]

Dibblah:

Or down here, now.

[16:27:44]

wagnerrp:

someone at adobe needs to be shot

[16:27:46]

bulle:

Dibblah: nice, seems i might have problems getting a standard sized pci card to fit though, if that extra part should sit in between, atleast in my small htpc case

[16:27:48]

wagnerrp:

they want to put flash on TVs

[16:27:58]

bulle:

Dibblah: but thanks for the link, its intresting

[16:28:40]

Dibblah:

Just bend it ;)

[16:29:00]

sid3windr:

wtf why does it need a molex

[16:29:21]

wagnerrp:

PCIe provides more power than PCI

[16:29:30]

wagnerrp:

the molex is probably optional

[16:29:33]

sid3windr:

so it wouldn't need one at all then :p

[16:29:47]

wagnerrp:

err... yeah, thinking that backwards

[16:29:49]

wagnerrp:

ignore me

[16:29:49]

sid3windr:

;)

[16:29:55]

sid3windr:

funny thing though, that

[16:30:09]

B-Man:

So if I have someone like charter for a provider I would have to run my cable through their box first than out to my tv tuner card, correct?

[16:30:22]

wagnerrp:

B-Man: for some things

[16:30:31]

wagnerrp:

you can get a QAM tuner

[16:30:46]

wagnerrp:

you will be able to pick up the local broadcast channels over QAM

[16:30:52]

wagnerrp:

you may be able to pick up more

[16:31:00]

B-Man:

wagnerrp, ok, I am quite new to this and have yet to even setup mythtv

[16:31:30]

B-Man:

wagnerrp, so if I wanted to record my HD channels what would I need?

[16:31:32]

wagnerrp:

i get the local broadcast, public access, cspan, shopping, WGN, and TBS in the clear

[16:31:38]

wagnerrp:

everything else is encrypted

[16:31:54]

B-Man:

just pass it through the box for the encryped channels right?

[16:32:16]

wagnerrp:

if you want to access the encrypted channels, you can get a firewire card (or use onboard firewire) and try to capture it using the firewire output on your cable box

[16:32:31]

wagnerrp:

of youre going to have to get an analog capture card, and plug it into your cable box's outputs

[16:32:53]

wagnerrp:

so far, the only analog HD capture device supported by mythtv is the HDPVR, and thats only with trunk

[16:33:06]

B-Man:

ok

[16:33:14]

B-Man:

so just stick with picking up the normal channels

[16:33:14]

thedarkone:

wagnerrp u can't use firewire on comcast

[16:33:34]

wagnerrp:

thedarkone: thats blatantly wrong

[16:33:50]

thedarkone:

well for most hd channels u can't

[16:33:54]

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[16:34:15]

wagnerrp:

comcast MUST allow you to use firewire, its an fcc mandate

[16:34:29]

wagnerrp:

thats not to say they cant turn on encryption on the firewire port

[16:34:50]

wagnerrp:

but i know people out in SF with comcast get a large number of their channels over firewire

[16:34:50]

thedarkone:

on comcast you can get 200 /201/203/205/209/210/212/213 that it

[16:34:54]

iamlindoro:

You cannot generalize about *any* company's firewire port behavior, since it's set at the *local level*

[16:34:58]

iamlindoro:

thedarkone: ^^^

[16:35:21]

B-Man:

wagnerrp, So I am looking at the hauppauge 1800 it can take analog and ATSC/QAM, that would cover about everything I have correct?

[16:35:25]

iamlindoro:

*You* can only get those channels. firewire behavior will change from headend to headend, which means even in *your city* people might be able to get some, none, or all

[16:35:26]

thedarkone:

well your right iamlindoro

[16:35:30]

wagnerrp:

just because comcast in your area likes to screw over their customer base, doesnt mean its a company wide policy

[16:35:40]

wagnerrp:

B-Man: not exactly

[16:35:50]

iamlindoro:

I personally am with Comcast and get all but *one* of my channels via firewire, and that's several hundred channels

[16:36:07]

wagnerrp:

linux supports both the analog and digital sides of the 1800

[16:36:12]

wagnerrp:

but mythtv does not understand how to use the analog side

[16:36:33]

B-Man:

wagnerrp, What would be the best card for use with MythTV then?

[16:36:35]

thedarkone:

well when i called corp. office they said they don't support firewire

[16:36:48]

iamlindoro:

office drones don't know a damn thing

[16:37:12]

iamlindoro:

The *only* person who can tell you how firewire will work in your area will be the headend engineer for *your* headend

[16:37:12]

wagnerrp:

thedarkone: as i said, its FCC mandate that they have to provide cable boxes with functioning firewire ports

[16:37:16]

thedarkone:

well not comcast corp office it was motorola

[16:37:21]

iamlindoro:

who you can pretty much count on never getting on the phone

[16:38:21]

B-Man:

my box even has a gig-ethernet port wtf?

[16:38:26]

thedarkone:

well okay u if u do get firewire to work u still have 5c problem

[16:38:36]

iamlindoro:

Jesus Christ

[16:38:41]

iamlindoro:

do you want to try listening for a second?

[16:38:47]

iamlindoro:

*you* have a 5C problem

[16:38:57]

iamlindoro:

because *your* headend is staffed by dicks

[16:39:03]

iamlindoro:

*I* can watch what I want

[16:39:24]

iamlindoro:

So *please* don't go around "explaining" firewire to people when you don't understand it yourself

[16:39:25]

Shadow__X:

so possessive

[16:39:40]

dewman:

*I* have no idea what 5c is.... =)

[16:39:51]

B-Man:

what use would this ethernet port be to me on my cable box?

[16:39:55]

dewman:

and dont want to know...

[16:40:00]

iamlindoro:

B-Man: None whatsoever

[16:40:01]

AndyCap:

So if you want firewire, make sure you apply for the headend engineer position.

[16:40:01]

wagnerrp:

thedarkone: at the very least, it is of no cost to try firewire, so there is no reason why not to

[16:40:05]

Shadow__X:

iamlindoro, when you where a child was playing nice beating children with a toy truck

[16:40:22]

wagnerrp:

B-Man: ports like that are typically for maintenance access

[16:40:23]

iamlindoro:

Shadow__X: Who said I stopped doing that?

[16:40:25]

B-Man:

iamlindoro, Ok and how would i go about seeing if I can capture from the firewire?

[16:40:30]

Shadow__X:

iamlindoro, :)

[16:40:40]

iamlindoro:

B-Man: By following the steps outlined on the Firewire page on the wiki

[16:40:43]

AndyCap:

like say http://www.simplyhired.com/job-id/xzzqc5pyw2/ . . . eadend-jobs/

[16:40:57]

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[16:41:06]

B-Man:

iamlindoro, thanks reading now :)

[16:41:06]

Shadow__X:

the wiki will guide you

[16:41:38]

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[16:41:51]

g4lv4tr0n:

anyone know if the channel db bug is fixed in 0.21

[16:42:00]

g4lv4tr0n:

and channels.conf bug

[16:42:49]

Dibblah:

Which bug?

[16:43:02]

bulle:

g4lv4tr0n: as i have never been bitten by any channel db bug and channels.conf bug in 0.21 i cant answear that

[16:43:04]

Dibblah:

DVB-?

[16:44:12]

g4lv4tr0n:

in the prev ver there was a bug where the channel id and transponder id where incorrect

[16:44:59]

Dibblah:

DVB what?

[16:45:04]

Dibblah:

DVB-s, c, ...

[16:45:51]

bulle:

for me, with dvb-c the channels.conf import function works ok in 0.21

[16:46:30]

Dibblah:

If you're meaning stealing NTL, then there is a patch in trac you can find for yourself.

[16:49:06]

Dibblah:

g4lv4tr0n: Your nick is annoying and I'm not responding to PMs.

[16:49:42]

Dibblah:

(annoying because it's more work for us to get to autocomplete)

[16:50:17]

Shadow__X:

the keys they be so far apart mister

[16:50:22]

Dibblah:

Indeed.

[16:50:52]

Dibblah:

More the cognitive dissonance.

[16:52:23]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[16:52:24]

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[16:59:47]

** iamlindoro hates asploding VDPAU tickets **

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[17:19:51]

** Shadow__X hates crimpets **

[17:29:47]

** wagnerrp doesnt know what crimpets are **

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[17:30:48]

blackest_knight:

hi got a udev problem no 1 udevinfo has been replaced by udevadm

[17:31:25]

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[17:31:35]

blackest_knight:

anyone good for setting cards up with an alias

[17:34:06]

J-e-f-f-A:

I guess I haven't tried to do a search via mythweb in a while on my 0.21-fixes box – no matter what I search for I get "No matches found"... :-( (I probably didn't update mythweb with the last svn sync I did...)

[17:41:38]

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[17:44:53]

dewman:

I have a quick question about remotes.....I "had" a ati all in wonder, will the ati aiw remote work? It has a usb dongle to plug in...... maybe? maybe not?

[17:44:59]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: search works great for me in -fixes

[17:45:06]

sphery:

don't know why you'd get that behavior

[17:45:25]

sphery:

dewman: the Remote Wonder and Remote Wonder II work.

[17:45:26]

blackest_knight:

anyone remember how to tell myth not to be greedy with the tuners and share if not in use ?

[17:45:45]

dewman:

sphery:thanks!

[17:45:45]

sphery:

dewman: last I checked the Remote Wonder Plus could be made to work, but required some hacking

[17:46:02]

dewman:

ok i will do some digging then. thanks. =)

[17:46:10]

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[17:46:23]

sphery:

I really want a RW Plus, but I can't find a way to buy one without buying the AIW card (which is just an overpriced video card in Linux since the video capture you pay extra for is useless)

[17:46:43]

g4lv4tr0n:

Dibblah is it possible to get cable for free with a patch ?

[17:47:05]

Dibblah:

g4lv4tr0n: No.

[17:47:05]

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[17:47:21]

iamlindoro:

It's also *not okay to steal*

[17:47:25]

sphery:

blackest_knight: Myth always assumes its tuners are for its sole use

[17:47:28]

iamlindoro:

freaking people

[17:47:54]

g4lv4tr0n:

i know its not ok but is it possible ?

[17:47:55]

sphery:

blackest_knight: however, there's a setting that tells it to open digital tuners on demand

[17:48:03]

sphery:

g4lv4tr0n: not possible

[17:48:06]

iamlindoro:

g4lv4tr0n: For the second time, no

[17:48:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: Yeah, I'm sure it's something on my side... ;-) Just don't have time to troubleshoot/fix it while I'm at work. ;-) I'll work on it tonight. ;-)

[17:48:12]

g4lv4tr0n:

of course for reasearch and educational use only

[17:48:14]

iamlindoro:

But please ask one more time so that you can get banned

[17:48:32]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: well, if nothing else, then a data point--so you know your it is on your side :)

[17:48:42]

iamlindoro:

g4lv4tr0n: When is theft okay for "reasearch and education?" Never.

[17:49:48]

sphery:

blackest_knight: BTW, "Open DVB card on demand" in mythtv-setup

[17:49:57]

g4lv4tr0n:

reasearching to see if it works doesnt mean ill try it myself :)

[17:49:58]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: I just went to the channel directly in the listings and found it there, then scheduled the recording. Plus normal recording schedules are working fine, so it's something unique to my current mythweb setup. Like I said, I probably forgot to refresh mythweb with the last sync I did.

[17:50:12]

blackest_knight:

is it theft when someone sprays your dish with data doesn't sell to your country and you manage to make sense of it

[17:50:13]

g4lv4tr0n:

just intrested to know

[17:50:23]

g4lv4tr0n:

i use dvb-t anyway

[17:50:36]

sphery:

blackest_knight: other than that, the closest thing to what you're talking about is "EXECTV" in the menu's, which allows you to spawn a non-MythTV program that uses a tuner and Myth will cancel any recordings that were supposed to use that tuner until you give it back

[17:50:42]

sphery:

(i.e. exit the program)

[17:50:44]

g4lv4tr0n:

it musy be possible

[17:50:49]

g4lv4tr0n:

must

[17:51:17]

g4lv4tr0n:

as STB's are able to do it

[17:51:19]

blackest_knight:

mythtv doesnt have those kind of plugins dude , although there are other projects that do

[17:51:30]

g4lv4tr0n:

cool :)

[17:51:40]

sphery:

and discussion of them/stealing is forbidden here

[17:51:42]

g4lv4tr0n:

can you point me in the right direction :)

[17:51:45]

sphery:

nope

[17:51:49]

sphery:

go elsewhere to get your pointer

[17:52:37]

iamlindoro:

HEY GUESS WHAT

[17:52:38]

blackest_knight:

so your looking in the wrong place here and apart from that there is very little open so really your wasting your time

[17:52:41]

meshe:

and remember, all discussion, including the hostname you logged in with is permanently logged on the internet :)

[17:52:45]

iamlindoro:

We don't condone stealing or talk of stealing in here

[17:52:49]

iamlindoro:

SO SHUT THE EFF UP

[17:52:50]

Dagmar:

OHAI WAT

[17:52:57]

Dagmar:

Oh, yep.

[17:53:04]

** dustybin steals iamlindoro donuts **

[17:53:26]

dewman:

my wife steals money out of my wallet all the time....

[17:54:04]

g4lv4tr0n:

i dont want to steal anything or even attempt to steal anything im a subscriber just interested to know if it works

[17:54:08]

Dagmar:

Remember, the hole needs to be either five feet deep, or weighted down

[17:54:36]

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[17:54:51]

sphery:

g4lv4tr0n: even if you're a subscriber, there's almost no doubt that using any equipment other than the cable-co's own to received encrypted channels is a violation of the contract/terms of service

[17:54:54]

iamlindoro:

This is why I cannot be trusted with the banhammer

[17:55:31]

sphery:

g4lv4tr0n: let alone a violation of the DMCA or the equivalents that many countries have thanks to the US/US corps lobbying/pressuring foreign governments

[17:56:04]

sphery:

iamlindoro: actually, this would be a good reason to trust you with it

[17:56:43]

g4lv4tr0n:

anyway i got lirc working :)

[17:57:04]

g4lv4tr0n:

bad lircrc file dos format

[17:57:51]

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[17:58:39]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Well... yes, maybe :)

[17:59:00]

g4lv4tr0n:

damn wtf happend to freedom of speech ;)

[17:59:16]

meshe:

there is no such thing in IRC

[17:59:37]

meshe:

don't like it, start your own channel

[17:59:49]

iamlindoro:

#mythtv-obnoxious-thieves, perhaps

[17:59:54]

meshe:

IRC channel are owned by someone and that owner gets to set the rules

[18:00:19]

sphery:

better make it #obnoxious-thieves , otherwise Myth devs will likely complain to freenode

[18:00:31]

g4lv4tr0n:

you guys apparently live in a democracy but yet your every move and word is monitered by the feds

[18:00:55]

sphery:

not the feds, the corporations/lawyers

[18:00:57]

meshe:

who does?

[18:00:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

welcome to the new world order

[18:00:59]

sphery:

the feds aren't a problem

[18:00:59]

iamlindoro:

g4lv4tr0n: Who says it has to be out of fear of reprisal? Maybe some of us are just offended by theft and don't want the stink of it on our hard work?

[18:01:01]

XLV:

iamlindoro, here they sell ethernet cappable dvb-s recievers with that "capability" as their main advantage

[18:01:59]

sphery:

and, really, I agree with iamlindoro--I find it offensive that some people feel they can steal services... What gives them that right when everyone else pays for the service.

[18:02:05]

sphery:

I feel the same about stealing software.

[18:02:10]

g4lv4tr0n:

so you mean to say peeps start up companys that moniter irc and send out subpoena ???

[18:03:02]

iamlindoro:

I couldn't care less what people say online, or who comes after them as a result-- but I contribute to myth because the project ethos is similar to my personal sense of conduct

[18:03:07]

sphery:

Do you walk into a store and steal stuff? Do you really think you have the right to do so? If not, what's the difference between that and stealing a service?

[18:03:28]

AndyCap:

sphery: only when he forgot to buy something earlier.

[18:04:34]

sphery:

AndyCap: or, since he's "already a subscriber", perhaps when he buys something at one store, but he's out later and left that something at home, he can just steal another similar item from another (same brand) store

[18:04:35]

XLV:

sphery, if he's a subscriber its not stealing, its just convinience of use.. or "fair use".. eg building a pvr with a non-sunctioned or supported receiver card

[18:04:58]

** sphery assumes XLV meant to say, "IANAL" **

[18:05:06]

meshe:

g4lv4tr0n: smile, you're logged on the internet: http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1

[18:05:20]

iamlindoro:

XLV: That is *not* covered by fair use in the US, which is where the project is based

[18:05:48]

AndyCap:

or maybe it is covered by fair use, but banned by DMCA and contracts.

[18:05:49]

g4lv4tr0n:

meshe *smile* YOU JUST FUCKED YOURSELF

[18:06:05]

iamlindoro:

g4lv4tr0n: So did you, as swearing is against channel rules too

[18:06:07]

AndyCap:

anyhow, you're still out of luck.

[18:06:10]

g4lv4tr0n:

you dont want to keep tabs on me bro

[18:06:23]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +b %*!*@cpc3-lanc1-0-0-cust680.brig.cable.ntl.com

[18:06:28]

iamlindoro:

byeeeee

[18:06:34]

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[18:06:35]

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[18:06:35]

blackest_knight:

It's an interesting fine line, although recording something in the clear is possible we do it with mythtv theres very little about that is particularly user friendly even sky+ doesn't let you reencode the content so you can watch on your iplayer

[18:06:36]

sphery:

meshe: when g4lv4tr0n gets out of jail, you're in big trouble... ;)

[18:07:07]

meshe:

:S now i'm scared

[18:07:09]

sphery:

blackest_knight: yeah, according to BBC's web site, even connecting a DVR into a local network is prohibited...

[18:07:20]

iamlindoro:

meshe: Yeah, "bro" ;)_

[18:07:25]

sphery:

heh

[18:07:27]

tank-man:

blackest_knight, if youre in the usa OR in this channel, just don't talk about that stuff

[18:07:28]

** meshe laughs **

[18:07:35]

XLV:

that ban muting is the best

[18:07:45]

jams:

yes it is

[18:08:42]

blackest_knight:

now i'm confused the ability to legally record things that are in the clear you mean ?

[18:08:44]

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[18:08:52]

AndyCap:

Tell me mr g4lv4tr0n, what good is a phone call if you cannot speak.

[18:09:01]

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[18:09:22]

iamlindoro:

He has no mouth and he must scream

[18:09:45]

AndyCap:

that reminds me. I was going to order that old sci-fi anthology

[18:11:05]

Dagmar:

He has no brain, yet he must read

[18:11:05]

sphery:

blackest_knight: referring to http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2009/0 . . . tials_d.html

[18:12:01]

sphery:

blackest_knight: don't know how legally accurate it is, but it was an interesting read, nonetheless

[18:12:11]

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[18:12:40]

meshe:

speaking about legally recording things, the new copyright act they were trying to pass in canada said you could only keep a broadcast recording for 1 year, after which you have to delete it

[18:12:41]

sphery:

blackest_knight: oh, and I'm not in the UK, and am definitely not a lawyer

[18:13:22]

sphery:

meshe: I have heard that the original intent/interpretation of the US fair-use exemption for "time-shifting" specifies a "reasonable" time period--generally assumed to be 30 days from date of broadcast.

[18:13:35]

sphery:

anything longer was considered copying, not time shifting

[18:13:56]

sphery:

though I haven't ever found any specifics in the laws (not that I've tried very hard)

[18:14:03]

meshe:

hehe

[18:14:23]

meshe:

that just seems so... unenforcable

[18:14:42]

blackest_knight:

utter pants too, my brother had a dvr in australia which he brought back with him useless in the uk but i pillaged the hdd from it it was formatted ext2 and there were recordings on it nothing interesting but mplayer played them and they were hd

[18:14:53]

meshe:

do the **AA people get to come and inspect your vhs/dvd/pvrs every month?

[18:15:39]

Dagmar:

That depends

[18:15:56]

Dagmar:

If they've had spare time to lobby for it, probably so

[18:16:05]

meshe:

we just bought a dvd at the store, when we got home, first think i did was delete the copy that myth had reccorded

[18:16:15]

meshe:

s/think/thing/

[18:16:31]

sphery:

But whether they intend to enforce a law (or whether there is a mechanism to enforce a law), breaking the law is still breaking the law.

[18:16:39]

meshe:

true

[18:17:06]

meshe:

the current law in canada is keep a copy for personal use as long as you like

[18:17:09]

iamlindoro:

meshe: That's generally what I do too

[18:17:19]

sphery:

Yeah, I watch and delete everything... Anything worth keeping is worth having a good copy--i.e. produced for archival--such as a DVD (or, eventually Blu-Ray).

[18:17:22]

iamlindoro:

record/cut commercials/keep in MythVideo, then buy the DVD or Blu ray and replace

[18:17:46]

J-e-f-f-A:

It's probably already been mentioned, but USA Today ran an article today saying TiVO was going to start selling stats on what people skip over...

[18:17:48]

blackest_knight:

but its not illegal to connect a pvr150 to the scart out on your skybox is it?

[18:17:57]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: cool...

[18:18:12]

meshe:

exactly, theres watch once and watch many times types of media, delete the watch once and buy the watch many (if you can buy it)

[18:18:40]

sphery:

blackest_knight: I think that article was dealing with HDTV formats because they're digital and "unadulterated" copies, but again, IANAL

[18:18:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

"Big brother" eh? ;-) Supposedly 'anonymous'... but you know how that goes. ;-) I like my MythTV system... ;-) No, I LOVE it... ;-)

[18:19:42]

sphery:

meshe: it also helps that my local stations /always/ have some sort of ads/bugs/tickers/alerts/cut-to-news-desk type garbage

[18:19:55]

blackest_knight:

unadulterated? most broadcast stuff is majorly compressed

[18:20:17]

meshe:

sphery: aye

[18:20:18]

sphery:

there's no way I could get a clean copy of every episode of anything more than a miniseries (and then, only if I'm lucky)

[18:20:22]

blackest_knight:

and or cut to fit the time slot

[18:20:52]

sphery:

yeah... but what you store is identical to what's broadcast, versus analog which has losses

[18:20:55]

meshe:

i just created a wishlist for dvds i want a amazon, sadly, one series i want they release season 1 and 2 in 2004 and won't release the rest

[18:21:07]

sphery:

which series?

[18:21:14]

meshe:

Dream On

[18:21:30]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o jams

[18:21:36]

sphery:

wow... That's sad.

[18:21:42]

Mode for #mythtv-users by jams!n=jams@CPE-65-29-35-68.wi.res.rr.com : -b %*!*@cpc3-lanc1-0-0-cust680.brig.cable.ntl.com

[18:21:45]

iamlindoro:

Better start putting together the loan paperwork to get the BSG complete blu ray series

[18:21:49]

Dagmar:

Yeah the shows not all that good

[18:21:52]

Mode for #mythtv-users by jams!n=jams@CPE-65-29-35-68.wi.res.rr.com : -o jams

[18:22:16]

sphery:

I was just glad I could get all 10 seasons of Stargate SG-1 (plus 2 movies and Stargate Atlantis and the original Stargate (non-SG-1) movie)

[18:22:34]

blackest_knight:

anyway back to topic anyone familiar with udevadm ?

[18:22:44]

sphery:

man udevamd is :)

[18:22:45]

meshe:

i loved Dream On, but i can only buy season 1 and 2, oh well, i guess they don't want my money for season 3–6

[18:22:54]

sphery:

udevadm

[18:22:55]

sphery:

that is

[18:23:19]

AndyCap:

udevadm info --help looks fairly close to udevinfo

[18:23:20]

blackest_knight:

man udevadm doesnt help much

[18:23:22]

sphery:

looks like even the reactivated.net article on udev hasn't been fully updated: http://reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html

[18:23:40]

sphery:

yeah, for the most part, they just consolidated a bunch of different tools into udevadm

[18:23:50]

sphery:

so it's not hard to translate

[18:23:52]

jams:

and kept the same syntax

[18:23:55]

sphery:

yep

[18:24:11]

AndyCap:

i think udevinfo's just symlinked to udevadm here

[18:24:16]

sphery:

and, IMHO, it's a /lot/ cleaner, now

[18:24:26]

blackest_knight:

udevadmin info query= ?

[18:25:25]

jams:

blackest_knight- whats the question?

[18:25:32]

blackest_knight:

why cant man pages have any examples of usage in them

[18:25:45]

Dagmar:

Many do.

[18:26:09]

blackest_knight:

i need to find unique information on my two tv cards so i can set a rule so they stop swapping

[18:26:16]

AndyCap:

unfortunatly with new utils you're lucky if there's even a readme

[18:26:51]

GrahamIRC:

Are they PCI blackest_knight?

[18:27:00]

tank-man:

theres a faq on how to ask a question (linux releated) and it says if there is no readme, read the source

[18:27:01]

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[18:27:05]

blackest_knight:

yes

[18:27:05]

tank-man:

:)

[18:27:10]

jams:

udevadm info -a -p $(udevadm info -q path -n /dev/video0)

[18:27:20]

jams:

that will list info for /dev/video0.

[18:27:42]

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[18:27:53]

blackest_knight:

brilliant

[18:27:54]

jams:

you just need to pick out the info required to make a unique rule

[18:27:57]

blackest_knight:

thanks

[18:28:26]

blackest_knight:

i think i've got some rules from about 2007 that may work

[18:28:39]

marens:

quick question, where can i change the frequency of a single programm/station in the mythtv db, using dvb-s here

[18:29:20]

blackest_knight:

KERNEL=="video[0–9]*", BUS=="pci", ATTRS{device}=="0x8000", ATTRS{vendor}=="0x14f1",SYMLINK="dvb-s100", GROUP="video"

[18:30:43]

marens:

serviceid in table channel?

[18:30:46]

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[18:32:15]

jams:

marens- i thought that could be done with the channel editor, but not for sure.

[18:33:59]

blackest_knight:

hmm does this look wrong to you guys ATTRS{vendor}=="0x14f1"

[18:33:59]

blackest_knight:

ATTRS{device}=="0x8800 udev-rule ="KERNEL=="video[0–9]*", BUS=="pci", ATTRS{device}=="0x8000", ATTRS{vendor}=="0x14f1",SYMLINK="dvb-s100", GROUP="video"

[18:34:33]

marens:

jams: couldn't find it ... thought a quick look in the db would be easier :-D

[18:35:17]

blackest_knight:

looks like either i got this wrong 2 years ago putting 8000 instead of 8800 for the device id or somethings changed

[18:35:49]

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[18:36:18]

blackest_knight:

problem is they are hybrid devices

[18:37:36]

clever:

blackest_knight: just run the udevadm on each node and find something uniq to each

[18:38:30]

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[18:38:31]

blackest_knight:

i did the vendor is the same but the device id is different so i think i've cracked that now all i got to do is get mythtv to give me my cards back when i want them

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[18:42:59]

blackest_knight:

heres a thing is the ability to recieve mpeg4 via dvb-t a factor in the card or in mythtv

[18:43:48]

blackest_knight:

seems theres no dvb-t for me till the autumn and then its going to use the dvb-t standard and mpeg4 for the compression

[18:44:24]

sphery:

marens: DVB always uses the tables provided by the stream, so if the stream is sending wrong frequency, you're out of luck

[18:44:46]

sphery:

with analog, you can finetune, but not with DVB

[18:45:24]

sphery:

i.e. if you change the value in the DB, it will just switch back to using the value in the stream when you next try to tune it

[18:45:47]

blackest_knight:

sphery if the streams wrong will that not mean everyones not getting it ?

[18:46:19]

sphery:

right--unless the "everyone" is using the broadcaster's own equipment which may have workarounds/other means of acquiring the info

[18:46:23]

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[18:46:37]

iamlindoro:

blackest_knight: DVB doesn't care what codec it's receiving, it's agnostic to it

[18:46:48]

sphery:

basically, though, there's a lot of garbage being broadcast out there...

[18:46:50]

iamlindoro:

You don't need special hardware for different codecs

[18:47:01]

sphery:

Myth does its best to work in spite of this, but there's only so much we can do

[18:47:24]

blackest_knight:

so theres a chance i can watch a decent signal in the next 6 months (irish tv's a bit .... )

[18:48:25]

sphery:

the MPEG-4 becomes a factor only in decoding it--i.e. since it's almost definitely MPEG-4 AVC (H.264), it will take a pretty hefty processor to keep up with decoding

[18:49:07]

blackest_knight:

well theres an excuse to buy a new Mboard :)

[18:49:28]

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[18:49:43]

blackest_knight:

I killed my best system with an external dvd drive

[18:50:16]

wagnerrp:

how did you manage that?

[18:50:23]

blackest_knight:

it was a chinese conspiracy they fitted the power socket with a 12volt jack

[18:50:28]

wagnerrp:

external drive go bad and fry the onboard USB?

[18:50:31]

iamlindoro:

By powering it with a lightning rod

[18:51:11]

blackest_knight:

12volts on the usb bus totalled it even killed my wireless keyboard reciever

[18:51:24]

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[18:51:38]

clever:

blackest_knight: how the hell does it get 12v on the usb?...

[18:51:48]

marens:

sphery: select channel.name, dtv_multiplex.frequency from channel join dtv_multiplex on channel.mplexid=dtv_multiplex.mplexid where channel.channum=1; gives what i want :-D

[18:51:54]

wagnerrp:

i did that once, except i got my fried parts replaced for free

[18:51:58]

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[18:52:33]

wagnerrp:

im my apt. the phoneco gave me a POS Westell modem

[18:52:43]

blackest_knight:

the hongkong usb case had the wrong jack on it (normally 5 volt sockets only take the 5 volt jack

[18:52:52]

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[18:52:58]

wagnerrp:

plug it into my network card, network goes offline... plug it into usb, board gets whiped out

[18:53:03]

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[18:53:32]

blackest_knight:

luckily the ram and the hdd's were ok

[18:54:12]

blackest_knight:

so now i'm using a 1400mhz xp athlon with a gb of ram and 5 hdds

[18:55:35]

blackest_knight:

still no worries apart from reencoding with ffmpeg is very slow about 5fps

[18:56:21]

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[18:57:17]

blackest_knight:

I think the hongkong supplier has modded the design of the case now just has two mini usb's on it now

[18:59:18]

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[19:00:03]

wagnerrp:

it has two USB-B ports on it?

[19:05:56]

blackest_knight:

yeah so you cant plug 12volts into it by mistake now mate bought one a few months back it just had an extra usb lead with it

[19:06:19]

blackest_knight:

it's a solution i guess

[19:06:35]

Dagmar:

How do you get 12v?

[19:06:52]

blackest_knight:

wrong wallwart

[19:08:11]

blackest_knight:

easy done i've probably got at least twenty assorted and they never come with anything to identify what they are supposed to be powering

[19:08:38]

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[19:09:17]

Dagmar:

Label makers. Buy one.

[19:09:25]

Dagmar:

That's the best solution I've found for htat problems

[19:09:26]

blackest_knight:

i was careless, the dvd drive was struggling to burn a disk, i made a fatal error

[19:09:32]

Dagmar:

s/problems/problem/;

[19:09:38]

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[19:10:50]

blackest_knight:

actually devices are probably worse than walwarts often the only way you get to know the necessary voltage is by digging through a pdf file of the manual

[19:11:02]

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[19:11:20]

wagnerrp:

or a volt meter

[19:11:28]

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[19:12:04]

blackest_knight:

volt meter only measures volts once its got power

[19:12:40]

iamlindoro:

or you could simply, you know, match the input and output voltages that are printed on both the device and the plug

[19:12:56]

iamlindoro:

(and amperages)

[19:12:58]

blackest_knight:

if they exist

[19:13:15]

iamlindoro:

They exist, or they couldn't sell their product in your country :)

[19:13:37]

iamlindoro:

unless your country is one of those garden spots like "Bangladesh"

[19:13:44]

blackest_knight:

you'd think so but they don't

[19:13:50]

iamlindoro:

They do

[19:14:02]

blackest_knight:

wallwarts will normally tell you ac dc and voltage

[19:14:31]

wagnerrp:

and amperage

[19:14:58]

Dagmar:

Lopeppeppy: http://wow.qj.net/Chinese-censorship-brings-f . . . 49/aid/96565

[19:15:03]

Dagmar:

Wrong chan

[19:15:31]

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[19:16:57]

blackest_knight:

ok picked up an octigen 3.5 slim drive / usb 2.0 usb type a port (usb symbol) and the power jack says "power" and apart from 0 and I on the power switch and a barcode thats it everything written on it (apart from where i wrote 12v 1.5 amp)

[19:17:44]

blackest_knight:

I got that from the manufacturers web site

[19:20:55]

blackest_knight:

got a bluetooth gps here nothing the battery inside says 3.7 volts use specified charger. Another tomtom gps has 5v 1.0 amp and the polarity so thats 1 out of 3 so far

[19:22:42]

blackest_knight:

2 usb 2.5 externals say 5volt dc nothing about amps thou

[19:22:59]

blackest_knight:

all bought in the uk

[19:25:13]

** bulle throws a late WCE at Dagmar **

[19:25:53]

Dagmar:

blackest_knight: Those were probably designed to run 4200/5200 RPM disks on USB power only

[19:26:20]

Dagmar:

I think you can safely assume 500mA there

[19:26:23]

wagnerrp:

ok... heres what i have on my desk that lists on it what power it needs.... DS, mp3 player, cell phone, palm, cordless phone, palm, usb hub, wireless AP

[19:26:44]

wagnerrp:

the only thing that doesnt seem to have it listed is my hard drive dock, and thats probably just because i spray painted over it

[19:27:22]

wagnerrp:

bases on both wireless mice have the power listed...

[19:27:40]

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[19:28:07]

blackest_knight:

mine too, phone doesnt but its usb anyway

[19:28:34]

Dagmar:

What I want is for some of these people who make spearkers to make the vendors freaking say so when they use a wall-wart

[19:29:17]

Dagmar:

I'm trying to find some suitable for installation on my kymco, and I'm not keen on using a 12v-120v converter if I don't need to

[19:29:18]

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[19:29:41]

Dagmar:

I'm going to have to actually go to a store in person and look at display models

[19:30:01]

blackest_knight:

Dagmar: you need to go up to 120V ?

[19:30:19]

Dagmar:

If I were to use a set of speakers that get their power from a 120VAC plug? Yes.

[19:30:39]

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[19:30:44]

Dagmar:

Otherwise I'll have to crack those open and figure out where the power supply circuits end and the amps begin

[19:31:00]

blackest_knight:

are you on a boat or something ?

[19:31:10]

Dagmar:

Easier by far if I can just find a pair that use a 12vdc wall wart

[19:31:21]

Dagmar:

Then all I need is a choke and a big capacity

[19:31:26]

Dagmar:

er capacitor

[19:32:10]

Dagmar:

I think the office insurance will cover the tranqluizers I'm going to need to deal with all the various bits of arduino that are available

[19:32:53]

blackest_knight:

whats the problem with mains ac ?

[19:33:28]

bulle:

blackest_knight: feeding mains ac into something that expects 5v dc isnt that gr8

[19:34:29]

Dagmar:

blackest_knight: It's not typically available on a motorscooter.

[19:34:46]

blackest_knight:

ah ok it makes sense now

[19:34:53]

Dagmar:

Dragging 12 miles of extension cord behind the bike is not an option

[19:35:11]

bulle:

Dagmar: but it would look pretty darn funny

[19:35:19]

blackest_knight:

maybe an inverter thou

[19:36:16]

Dagmar:

Size, dude.

[19:36:19]

Dagmar:

Wall warts are tiny

[19:36:48]

blackest_knight:

I've got a 165 watt one about the size of a house brick

[19:37:08]

Dagmar:

...plus, you don't even need the wallwart if it was feeding 12vdc

[19:37:45]

Dagmar:

The thing to convert 12vdc to 120vac is not likely going to be as small as a capacitor and choke

[19:37:48]

blackest_knight:

well 12volts tends to vary a bit on a bike

[19:38:04]

Dagmar:

Good thing it won't matter if it's exactly 12v then

[19:39:41]

blackest_knight:

true

[19:40:29]

blackest_knight:

well got to drop out for a time it's been interesting but i got to reconfigure my backend again

[19:42:06]

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[19:50:07]

** iamlindoro when the cycle of avoiding build-dep on the wiki ubuntu compile guides will be broken **

[19:50:49]

iamlindoro:

oof, not to mention instructions with *no* configure options

[19:51:37]

meshe:

build-dep made my install of trunk very easy

[19:53:15]

iamlindoro:

Then instead of using mc.sql, they suggest opening a mysql prompt and creating the DB by hand...

[19:53:18]

iamlindoro:

good times

[19:53:42]

J-e-f-f-A:

Dagmar: Just bugee-cord a 'boom box' to your handlebars. ;-)

[19:54:52]

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[19:55:47]

** J-e-f-f-A used to do that with his Bicycle back in the 80's... ;-) **

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[19:55:57]

wagnerrp:

ghetto-fab

[19:57:21]

J-e-f-f-A:

hehe... ;-) Well, it was either that or a Walkman with headphones... ;-)

[19:58:04]

J-e-f-f-A:

Nowadays most cell phones have more BASS than a boom box did back then... ;-)

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuarta

[20:52:35]

stuarta:

evening...

[20:53:24]

** stuarta wonders if he was a bit harsh earlier **

[20:53:50]

** iamlindoro daubs away tears **

[20:53:59]

iamlindoro:

You... *sniff*.... you mean it?

[20:54:17]

** stuarta pokes iamlindoro with a sharp stick **

[20:54:26]

** iamlindoro resumes sobbing **

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[20:54:48]

stuarta:

anyway....

[20:57:50]

sphery:

actually, we could have used you a bit later after that... :)

[20:58:09]

sphery:

though the next one was one who wanted to talk forbidden topics

[20:58:12]

stuarta:

what'd i miss? more of the same

[20:58:15]

stuarta:

oh

[20:58:29]

** stuarta assumes GreyFoxx was on the case **

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[20:59:40]

stuarta:

oh well

[21:00:18]

sphery:

no one was here, but he got a good number of us telling him to go elsewhere to talk about that stuff

[21:00:34]

sphery:

and didn't get any of the info he wanted

[21:01:38]

iamlindoro:

This calls for more banhammers, distributed to people with short tempers

[21:01:52]

Dagmar:

Well, if you're handing them out...

[21:01:54]

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[21:02:11]

stuarta:

that's my job

[21:03:15]

meshe:

i love it when people think there's such a thing as free speech and right in IRC channels, it's just so amusing

[21:03:23]

meshe:

rights*

[21:03:39]

sphery:

it's possible he may have eventually been muted, though--if it's possible to mute someone in here

[21:04:01]

sphery:

he definitely stopped talking after upsetting a number of people

[21:04:19]

meshe:

someone put a +b on him

[21:04:28]

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[21:05:20]

sphery:

heh... cool

[21:05:39]

stuarta:

i'm checking

[21:06:16]

Dagmar:

The +b is what shut him up

[21:06:37]

Dagmar:

It looked like he was going to continue with the sophistic argumentation

[21:06:42]

meshe:

jams took care of it

[21:07:11]

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[21:07:28]

jams:

sphery- he was muted by me

[21:07:41]

sphery:

ah, well, thanks, then...

[21:07:47]

jams:

think i prefer muting vs kick/ban

[21:08:20]

jams:

i was working in another window otherwise would have done it sooner

[21:08:26]

stuarta:

jams: from reading the logs a mute jut gets chanserv to ban him

[21:08:37]

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[21:09:09]

jams:

stuarta- yes I had chanserv apply +q. meaning he could join but not talk

[21:09:23]

jams:

the logs say +b but it was really +q

[21:09:30]

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[21:09:37]

stuarta:

ah, i c

[21:09:46]

stuarta:

yes the logs do say +b :)

[21:10:24]

jams:

it's odd, but it had the desired effect

[21:10:28]

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[21:10:40]

stuarta:

also explains why he wasn't in the ban list

[21:10:44]

meshe:

the great thing is, the user doesn't realize that the channel can't see their chat

[21:10:50]

jams:

already removed him

[21:10:53]

stuarta:

ah

[21:10:58]

jams:

but it does show up in the ban list

[21:11:10]

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[21:11:11]

stuarta:

i've left the other idiot banned from the dev channel for now

[21:12:13]

jams:

as you should, he was a bit more trouble.

[21:12:25]

stuarta:

i might use +q more often

[21:12:54]

jams:

stuarta either +q or the quiet command same thing, two different ways of doing it.

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[21:35:20]

JEDIDIAH__:

If I alter the channel table (make something visble/not-visible), will that trigger a re-run of the scheduler?

[21:35:56]

sphery:

not if you do it

[21:36:02]

sphery:

if you ask Myth to do it, then yes

[21:36:16]

sphery:

i.e. don't edit the DB directly--use mythtv-setup or MythWeb's channel editor

[21:36:31]

sphery:

(and, really, I can't say for sure that MythWeb requests a reschedule)

[21:36:42]

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[21:37:18]

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[21:38:05]

Dagmar:

To put it more simply, if you alter the channel table, you will just eff things up

[21:42:23]

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[21:47:14]

iamlindoro:

So much Teevee tonight

[21:47:51]

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[21:49:21]

JEDIDIAH__:

You've been looking behind the curtain again haven't you?

[21:49:22]

jams:

iamlindoro- and almost nothing for the rest of the week

[21:49:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: Good thing you've got a MythTV system (or systems?) so you won't miss any of it... ;-)

[21:50:04]

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[21:50:07]

iamlindoro:

jams, J-e-f-f-A: Yeah, it gets a bit bleak ater that aside from Lost/The Orifice/Dollhouse

[21:50:25]

iamlindoro:

erm s/Fringe/Lost/

[21:50:29]

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[21:50:34]

jams:

oh yeah that scifi movie is also on tonight

[21:50:35]

iamlindoro:

Since Lost is some catch-up episode this week

[21:50:48]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: 24 tonight... Quite a twist last week...

[21:50:48]

sphery:

scifi movie? on cable only?

[21:51:01]

iamlindoro:

or as TMS calls it, "Lost: Lost: The Story of the Oceanic 6"

[21:51:07]

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[21:51:07]

iamlindoro:

note the Double Lost

[21:51:11]

jams:

sphery- yeah knights of bloodsteel on the sci fi channel

[21:51:19]

sphery:

ahhh

[21:51:22]

sphery:

no help for me

[21:51:24]

iamlindoro:

jams: Will record it but it got dreadful reviews

[21:51:32]

** JEDIDIAH__ wants his old school sci-fi channel back... **

[21:51:43]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: perhaps the SF channel?

[21:51:43]

iamlindoro:

The Sif is doooooomed

[21:51:59]

sphery:

In the renaming, I learned there's a difference between SciFi and SF

[21:52:06]

JEDIDIAH__:

the SF channel? I am better off on AMC or the local PBS station.

[21:52:07]

jams:

iamlindoro- and what Sci-FI movie doens't get dreadful reviews

[21:52:08]

dewmanstl:

just had a little scare a while ago....Didnt realize that when you import music it defaults to the \var\lib ...ran out of disc space on my /dev/sdc1

[21:52:23]

iamlindoro:

jams: Farscape: The Peacekeeper Wars and the BSG Pilot :)

[21:52:27]

sphery:

per http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/03/sci-fi-channel . . . change-.html

[21:52:31]

JEDIDIAH__:

SF? Sounds like an alternative lifestyle channel....

[21:52:39]

jams:

have yet to watch Thor, but I have a feeling it's going to be awful

[21:52:49]

jams:

awful awful awful

[21:52:50]

JEDIDIAH__:

you gotta watch those defaults...

[21:52:59]

iamlindoro:

jams: OMG save yourself

[21:52:59]

sphery:

in theory SF is science-based fiction (Arthur C. Clarke, etc) and SciFi is ewoks and wookies and stuff

[21:53:05]

iamlindoro:

jams: DO. NOT. WATCH.

[21:53:16]

jams:

iamlindoro- watched the first 10 minutes and got bored with it

[21:53:19]

JEDIDIAH__:

that is just fen pomposity.

[21:53:23]

jams:

so it really is that bad?

[21:53:30]

iamlindoro:

jams: Believe it or not, it gets soooooo much worse

[21:53:42]

JEDIDIAH__:

most of them (fen) collectively need an enema.

[21:54:10]

iamlindoro:

jams: Watch for the reveal later when the totally yoked bodybuilder body takes off his helmet and it's the Home Improvement kid. Worst. TV. Ever.

[21:54:35]

jams:

yes i saw he was in it, kinda turned me off.

[21:54:52]

iamlindoro:

He's way too roly poly to be an action hero

[21:55:08]

jams:

heh

[21:55:40]

jams:

worse the nick cage as an action hero?

[21:56:01]

iamlindoro:

way worse

[21:56:09]

JEDIDIAH__:

the roly poly guy can at least perhaps lift the gun.

[21:56:47]

jams:

guess i won't be watching it anytime soon then

[21:56:54]

iamlindoro:

Needs more Bakula

[21:57:06]

iamlindoro:

Like everything, needs more Bakula

[21:57:15]

JEDIDIAH__:

No. More Duckula!

[21:58:15]

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[21:58:42]

chaosrl:

really really simple question: with a tv tuner card, i do still need a video card right?

[21:59:00]

iamlindoro:

Only if you want to *watch* what you capture

[21:59:23]

meshe:

you may not need it on the box with the capture card if you are setting up a remote frontend

[21:59:24]

chaosrl:

and there are generally no compatibility issues with other video cards?

[21:59:30]

iamlindoro:

I suppose you could use just the tuner and let things fill up the hard drive content in the knowledge that you gave it a good workout

[21:59:55]

JEDIDIAH__:

my master backend is headless.

[22:00:09]

chaosrl:

i'm terribly new at this whole thing, but then why do they have S-video out, etc?

[22:00:24]

iamlindoro:

chaosrl: They don't. They have S-Video *in*

[22:00:28]

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[22:00:39]

iamlindoro:

tuner cards have a variety of ins, Videos cards have a variety of outs

[22:00:44]

chaosrl:

so the HD ones with HDMI are HDMI in

[22:00:45]

sphery:

the PVR-350 has S-Video out, but it's a waste

[22:00:52]

chaosrl:

and i can capture either via the cable, or through a tv?

[22:01:15]

sphery:

the PVR-350 is a PVR-150 with a very expensive and very low-quality (by today's standards) video card

[22:01:26]

iamlindoro:

chaosrl: There are no capture cards with an HDMI in (Well, there's one under windows, but useless for a DVR)

[22:01:28]

sphery:

in 1998, it made some sense, today it doesn't

[22:01:49]

meshe:

espeically when it's $30 to buy a cheap Nvidia card with tv out

[22:02:16]

sphery:

chaosrl: definitely need to check linuxtv.org 's wiki for list of supported capture cards

[22:02:18]

JEDIDIAH__:

your mythtv setup will replace a Tivo or whatever recording box you might get from the cable company.

[22:02:32]

sphery:

http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php

[22:02:40]

JEDIDIAH__:

the tv is not involved until you want to play something, and even then you don't have to play recordings on a TV.

[22:03:04]

chaosrl:

sphery: will definitely do, thanks

[22:03:19]

chaosrl:

so, one last time, just to make sure i got this right

[22:03:38]

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[22:03:46]

chaosrl:

cable goes into tv-tuner card, software captures it, then video card displays it either to a tv or my monitor?

[22:03:56]

sphery:

yep

[22:04:00]

chaosrl:

or i can watch it live on tv or monitor

[22:04:05]

sphery:

assuming the content on the cable happens to be unencrypted

[22:04:22]

chaosrl:

mmk

[22:04:24]

chaosrl:

thanks!

[22:04:28]

JEDIDIAH__:

there are lots of cabling options...

[22:04:31]

sphery:

otherwise, cable goes to cable-/satellite-company provided DVR and records

[22:04:47]

sphery:

(i.e. can't use Myth for that--except with an analog encoder like the HD-PVR)

[22:04:55]

sphery:

or the PVR-150 for standard def

[22:05:23]

chaosrl:

i'm in university right now, and they provide cable tv in the res. colleges, i assume i need a hybrid card to prep for the switchover

[22:05:36]

JEDIDIAH__:

you can record HD content but that is more involved. (still in development)

[22:05:38]

sphery:

I would think they'll continue with analog

[22:05:46]

sphery:

but don't quote me on that

[22:06:05]

chaosrl:

hmm ok

[22:06:07]

sphery:

i.e. analog = cheap, digital = more expensive

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[22:06:51]

JEDIDIAH__:

campus HD cable is probably just ATSC that you can capture with any number of cheap HD TV cards (usb/pci/pcie)

[22:07:10]

chaosrl:

i thought all tv was switching to digital by june 12?

[22:07:14]

sphery:

and with all the trouble uni's are getting into with students just using their Internet connections to download music/videos, the industry would likely be very concerned about making uni's encrypt any digital high-def

[22:07:20]

sphery:

all broadcast TV must switch

[22:07:27]

sphery:

on cable lines, no deadline

[22:07:34]

chaosrl:

ohh ok

[22:07:37]

JEDIDIAH__:

If you can tune cable without a special box, then you can tune in those channels with a tuner card.

[22:07:55]

sphery:

right--that's the best way to explain it

[22:07:59]

chaosrl:

when you say tuner card, you mean an analog one?

[22:08:12]

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[22:08:17]

sphery:

if it's analog, then an analog one; if it's digital, then a digital one :)

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[22:08:43]

chaosrl:

ah ic

[22:08:45]

chaosrl:

thanks

[22:09:20]

sphery:

there are hybrids--like the Hauppauge HVR-1600 (and, TTBOMK, both analog and digital sides of it are supporyted in Linux/MythTV)

[22:09:34]

sphery:

and it's not too expensive if you find a good place to buy (can get it as cheap as $40)

[22:09:36]

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[22:10:51]

chaosrl:

oh ok

[22:10:52]

sphery:

OK, $53 for a refurb: http://stores.channeladvisor.com/Digitalet/it . . . emid=2988369 (can't vouch for the store, though)

[22:10:58]

chaosrl:

it uses pci?

[22:11:10]

sphery:

yeah

[22:11:31]

chaosrl:

cool

[22:11:42]

chaosrl:

i guess since i'm here, i might as well ask about mythTV

[22:11:51]

chaosrl:

i'm planning on installing jaunty first

[22:12:04]

chaosrl:

does it work well if mythTV is installed on top?

[22:12:09]

sphery:

My recommendation--especially to a first-time user--is to use MythBuntu, instead

[22:12:12]

meshe:

chaosrl: use Mythbuntu

[22:12:20]

chaosrl:

ok

[22:12:22]

sphery:

MythBuntu = Ubuntu where someone else already reconfigured it to work properly with Myth

[22:12:26]

meshe:

they have a Jaunty version already

[22:12:31]

sphery:

i.e. they did 90% of the work for you

[22:13:01]

chaosrl:

and mythbuntu has all the repositories of ubuntu right?

[22:13:06]

Josh_Borke:

yes

[22:13:08]

meshe:

outside of the nitpicky stuff i do after installing myth, it takes less than an hour with mythbuntu

[22:13:17]

sphery:

yeah, it /is/ Ubuntu

[22:13:17]

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[22:13:18]

Josh_Borke:

i personally use mythdora

[22:13:25]

Josh_Borke:

but the same principle applies

[22:13:30]

sphery:

http://www.mythbuntu.org/

[22:13:48]

sphery:

Yeah, MythDora = Fedora already configured for MythTV

[22:13:55]

meshe:

it's the official Ubuntu + Mythtv

[22:14:04]

sphery:

also a good choice, if you happen to know Fedora better than Ubuntu

[22:14:44]

sphery:

hmmm... that link I had was to a sold-out item...

[22:14:50]

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[22:15:02]

chaosrl:

haha, i'll definitely keep looking

[22:15:21]

sphery:

the lowest I had seen it was actually $49.99 refurb'ed

[22:15:29]

chaosrl:

in terms of graphics cards, do i need to have a high-end one to output the video?

[22:15:52]

sphery:

for the most part, high-end graphics is wasted on a Myth box

[22:15:54]

chaosrl:

or to play back blu-ray (i plan to make it a blu-ray/dvd player as well as i dont' have one right now)

[22:16:19]

meshe:

there's no linux blu-ray support yet

[22:16:26]

sphery:

however, there's a new on-GPU decoding API provided in the NVIDIA proprietary drivers that only works with some of the 8x00 and 9x00 cards

[22:16:27]

chaosrl:

oh

[22:16:30]

chaosrl:

well, i'm glad i asked

[22:16:46]

meshe:

my myth box is running a geforce 6200

[22:16:49]

chaosrl:

so getting a blue-ray disc drive would also be wasted?

[22:17:06]

sphery:

but, you're generally much better off doing on-CPU (software) decoding--at least until the VDPAU API stabilized (at which point it will be /completely/ unnecessary)

[22:17:07]

chaosrl:

if that's the case, i might just use on-board graphics?

[22:17:16]

sphery:

right now, VDPAU is unnecessary unless you don't buy the right CPU

[22:17:33]

sphery:

Aiming for a Core 2 Duo 3GHz or better is a good thing

[22:17:47]

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[22:18:00]

Josh_Borke:

chaosrl: blue ray disc drive is money in the trash. i know :-(

[22:18:03]

Josh_Borke:

i have one

[22:18:09]

chaosrl:

well, the reason why i'm building this system is because i won a quad-core amd phenom II 2.6ghz processor

[22:18:10]

sphery:

chaosrl: on-board works well, but for easiest setup/configuration, I recommend either nvidia or ATI

[22:18:19]

sphery:

nvidia is /much/ easier to set up, generally, though

[22:18:29]

sphery:

(ati is getting better)

[22:18:35]

chaosrl:

sphery: with how much on board memory?

[22:18:39]

JEDIDIAH__:

I wouldn't expect you could get full utilization of a BD-ROM in a dorm room.

[22:19:02]

Josh_Borke:

chaosrl: you should be able to get a motherboard with a decent on board graphics card that supports outputting 1080p HDMI

[22:19:03]

sphery:

chaosrl: if you're not using vdpau, 256MB is plenty... with vdpau, at least 512

[22:19:06]

chaosrl:

the last time i did any desktop computer stuff was when 128mb was high end

[22:19:07]

meshe:

chaosrl: if you're doing SD, almost anything will work, i think my 6200 has 128

[22:19:32]

JEDIDIAH__:

for SD, anything nvidia based should be fine.

[22:19:42]

JEDIDIAH__:

anything intel based should be good too.

[22:19:55]

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[22:19:59]

sphery:

yeah, intel's not too bad, either

[22:20:11]

meshe:

i keep repurposing old laptops as frontends

[22:20:33]

Josh_Borke:

SD or HD?

[22:20:53]

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[22:20:54]

meshe:

SD

[22:20:56]

sphery:

focus on a good processor and at least 1GB of system RAM (more doesn't hurt--and it's cheap these days, so...)

[22:21:02]

chaosrl:

are there any problems with compatability with amd and nvidia cards?

[22:21:02]

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[22:21:10]

sphery:

nope

[22:21:29]

chaosrl:

i'm not really sure where the phenom II stands nowadays in the processor race

[22:21:30]

chaosrl:

haha

[22:21:39]

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[22:21:47]

sphery:

I have an AMD AM2+ system with AMD chipset and integrated AMD video card with a PCIe video card slot with an nvidia video card in there

[22:21:59]

sphery:

just disabled the on-board AMD video card and used the nvidia, instad

[22:22:05]

chaosrl:

hmm ok

[22:22:11]

sphery:

phenom II is not a bad choice

[22:22:21]

sphery:

go for high-MHz over high cores

[22:22:37]

sphery:

I.e. dual core @ 3GHz would be better than quad core at 2.3GHz

[22:23:01]

sphery:

phenom II gives a good value for the money (especially if you get an overclockable one/are in to that kind of thing)

[22:23:01]

meshe:

hmmm

[22:23:06]

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[22:23:21]

meshe:

this is why i hang out in this channel

[22:23:39]

chaosrl:

haha

[22:23:57]

meshe:

dual-core vs quad-core, didn't know :)

[22:24:04]

sphery:

even a stock Phenom II, not overclocked, shouldn't be bad if you get the right speed

[22:24:04]

chaosrl:

unfortunately (or fortunately) i have to build around the processor i got

[22:24:24]

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[22:24:43]

chaosrl:

any recommendations on cpu heatsink/fans?

[22:24:46]

sphery:

meshe: mainly because we don't have (much, yet) support for multi-threaded decoding

[22:25:01]

Josh_Borke:

chaosrl: yea, quiet ;-)

[22:25:14]

meshe:

sphery: wasn't that one of the new ffmpeg features?

[22:25:16]

chaosrl:

haha, brands?

[22:25:21]

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[22:25:34]

sphery:

chaosrl: and--at least if you're paying the electricity bills ;)--getting a low-TDP CPU is also a good idea

[22:25:42]

sphery:

meshe: they're working on it

[22:25:54]

sphery:

it might be in there for 0.22, but isn't really, yet

[22:25:56]

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[22:26:00]

sphery:

if not, 0.23...

[22:26:09]

JEDIDIAH__:

cpu cooling definitely favors GPU acceleration...

[22:26:11]

iamlindoro:

It's still a ways off for ffmpeg, so I'd bet on .23

[22:26:16]

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[22:26:31]

sphery:

iamlindoro follows ffmpeg dev much closer than I

[22:26:40]

** meshe nods **

[22:26:47]

sphery:

chaosrl: which Phenom II do you have?

[22:26:53]

iamlindoro:

Alex Strange really only has the time to work on it heavily during the summer, so the absolute earliest I'd expect to see it in would be the last bit of summer

[22:26:54]

chaosrl:

810

[22:26:57]

chaosrl:

i think is the model

[22:27:09]

sphery:

quad-core 2.6GHz...

[22:27:11]

sphery:

probably not too bad

[22:27:16]

chaosrl:

yeah

[22:27:43]

sphery:

will do fine for MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 (blu-ray rips) once you have multi-threaded decoding--i.e. in 0.23 :)

[22:27:49]

sphery:

/might/ work for that now

[22:28:00]

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[22:28:16]

sphery:

but that processor will be way more than enough for MPEG-2 HDTV (which is what you're likely to see for /TV/ in the US)

[22:28:19]

chaosrl:

in 0.23?

[22:28:52]

sphery:

current MythTV release is 0.21

[22:29:04]

Josh_Borke:

any eta on .22?

[22:29:05]

sphery:

0.22 is "getting finished up"--might be out in a number of months

[22:29:07]

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[22:29:10]

meshe:

hehe

[22:29:14]

sphery:

0.23 is a dream on the horizon :)

[22:29:14]

Josh_Borke:

maybe in time for a christmas release?

[22:29:29]

sphery:

Josh_Borke: I can guarantee it will be ready before Christmas

[22:29:30]

meshe:

i just upgraded a box that was 0.20

[22:29:42]

sphery:

just can't guarantee which year's Christmas it will be ready before

[22:29:43]

Dagmar:

Which Christmas

[22:29:44]

chaosrl:

oh ok

[22:29:46]

Josh_Borke:

lol

[22:29:54]

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[22:30:13]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Won't you look silly if the earth explodes on the 24th of December that year

[22:30:19]

chaosrl:

what's the difference between gforce 9800 and say, 8400?

[22:30:29]

iamlindoro:

1400

[22:30:32]

Dagmar:

A number of things.

[22:30:33]

wagnerrp:

a large amount of silicon

[22:30:34]

meshe:

iamlindoro: i'm sure he'd be in pieces over it

[22:30:44]

Dagmar:

...the important ones of which are mentioned on the wiki

[22:31:01]

iamlindoro:

meshe: Indeed!

[22:31:04]

chaosrl:

is the difference worth the 80 or so bucks?

[22:31:15]

Dagmar:

Probably not

[22:31:22]

chaosrl:

if i'm not planning on doing any gaming

[22:31:23]

meshe:

chaosrl: go for a 9400

[22:31:46]

Dagmar:

higher numbers != moar betterer

[22:31:48]

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[22:31:49]

chaosrl:

haha

[22:31:51]

meshe:

should be close in price to an 8400

[22:31:56]

sphery:

iamlindoro: I guess you're right... If it's not ready by Christmas 2012 (the year the world ends), I'll look quite the fool.

[22:32:11]

meshe:

higher first number in nvidia cards do mean architecture improvements

[22:32:23]

wagnerrp:

if you want VDPAU, the 9500 seems to be the lowest with enough power for advanced 2x

[22:32:35]

wagnerrp:

besides that, any nvidia chip will work fine

[22:33:08]

sphery:

except when they repurpose the same core as their top-of-the-line-previous-generation on a smaller process as the value-segment-for-the-next-generation

[22:33:09]

chaosrl:

so manufacturer doesn't make much of a difference?

[22:33:16]

meshe:

chaosrl: not really

[22:33:19]

sphery:

(though I can't say for sure they've done that since the 6xxx series)

[22:33:30]

meshe:

XFX makes some passively cooled ones that are nice

[22:33:36]

wagnerrp:

manufacturer makes a difference on quality, and whether or not it will fall apart in a couple months

[22:33:44]

wagnerrp:

but as far as capability, not really

[22:34:13]

chaosrl:

are gigabyte and msi good bets generally?

[22:34:25]

meshe:

gigabyte are awesome cards

[22:34:34]

chaosrl:

cool

[22:34:34]

sphery:

chaosrl: and, really, integrated GPU for now then buying an NVIDIA discrete board in the future when you think you need it works great

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[22:34:58]

sphery:

if you use a "normal" distro, the ATI ones are pretty easy to use, even

[22:35:02]

wagnerrp:

integrated GPU is the only way to get HDMI audio on a geforce board right?

[22:35:17]

Dagmar:

Pretty much

[22:35:20]

sphery:

(i.e. no pure-64/non-multilib systems and a major distro like Ubuntu or Fedora)

[22:35:54]

chaosrl:

the mobo that i picked up has hdmi already, so i'm leaning towards using it for the time being

[22:36:07]

sphery:

so, all the discrete boards still only take digital audio as if it's S/PDIF (with all its limitations)?

[22:36:12]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: You might want to look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PureVideo#Table_ . . . 28HD.29_GPUs

[22:36:28]

sphery:

chaosrl: which mobo?

[22:36:47]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: why me?

[22:36:59]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: It appears that the 9300's have the G98 like the newer 8400

[22:36:59]

chaosrl:

sphery: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It . . . yte%20ma78gm

[22:37:00]

wagnerrp:

no mention of audio anything in there

[22:37:09]

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[22:37:21]

Dagmar:

Because you were talking about the 9500's capabilities a moment ago, and it looks like a downstep from the G98 core

[22:37:36]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: right, but thats somewhat of a non-issue anymore, since VC-1 got added into the VP2 cards

[22:37:38]

sphery:

chaosrl: that should work fine--the 780G is not bad video (provided you're willing to use the AMD proprietary drivers)

[22:37:43]

wagnerrp:

through some CUDA running on the GPU

[22:37:47]

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[22:38:02]

sphery:

chaosrl: and, it's super efficient from a power-usage standpoint :)

[22:38:05]

chaosrl:

sphery: i personally don't have qualms about using proprietary drivers

[22:38:12]

Dagmar:

Ah

[22:38:40]

chaosrl:

ah!

[22:38:53]

chaosrl:

somethign that just came to mind is how do i pick a psu that's suitable?

[22:39:00]

sphery:

chaosrl: good--that GPU kind of turns the "rule" upside down in the open-source world (i.e. it had to get 3D support /before/ they could do Xv (2D accelerated video))

[22:39:10]

Dagmar:

Buy something that doesn't suck and has the right "GPU" connector on it

[22:39:12]

Josh_Borke:

chaosrl: by reading ;-)

[22:39:13]

sphery:

chaosrl: in Myth we need Xv, but the 3D is not required

[22:39:20]

sphery:

chaosrl: but the ATI drivers work well with it

[22:39:27]

chaosrl:

cool

[22:39:45]

Dagmar:

chaosrl: You might want to aim for something with one large fan as opposed to a bunch of smaller, louder ones

[22:40:02]

chaosrl:

Dagmar: referring to the psu?

[22:40:18]

Dagmar:

yes

[22:40:23]

sphery:

for PSU, go for 80 PLUS! :)

[22:40:27]

Josh_Borke:

chaosrl: seriously though, i'd agree with Dagmar and sphery

[22:40:30]

** sphery loves to recommend 80 PLUS **

[22:40:34]

chaosrl:

do people generally try to tally the amount of power they project they'll use and then buy a PSU that is enough?

[22:40:35]

B-Man:

What options are out there that MythTV supports for wireless pc-to-tv?

[22:40:39]

Josh_Borke:

i knew it was 80 PLUS or something. not that i even know what that is

[22:40:43]

chaosrl:

haha

[22:40:57]

Dagmar:

chaosr1: To not do so is to invite purchasing something underpowered or overpowered

[22:41:06]

sphery:

If I were a celebrity, 80 PLUS CPU's are the one thing I'd be willing to flog in commercials. :)

[22:41:29]

Josh_Borke:

B-Man: wireless pc-to-tv?

[22:41:41]

Josh_Borke:

how does that work? which part is wireless?

[22:42:11]

chaosrl:

Dagmar: cool thanks. so each part will have a wattage req. specified, and i just add them all up?

[22:42:12]

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[22:42:12]

Dagmar:

chaosr1: An overpowered PSU will mean excess heat and noise, and underpowered CPU will mean excess cursing and swearing

[22:42:19]

** sphery wonders where the efficiency certifications criteria went on newegg... **

[22:42:20]

chaosrl:

haha

[22:42:33]

blackest_knight:

hi

[22:42:38]

B-Man:

Josh_Borke, Only thing I can find is wireless HDMI but I am looking for a more feasible solution

[22:42:48]

B-Man:

Josh_Borke, I should say economic

[22:42:57]

Dagmar:

chaosrl: No, you'll do the smart thing and google "power supply calculator" and fill in a bunch of pickboxes and it'll tell you what you need to aim for

[22:43:10]

Dagmar:

Provision as if you were fully populating the case with drives and cards

[22:43:23]

blackest_knight:

here is a question why would one program recognise a device under an alias or the device and another just the device

[22:43:27]

Dagmar:

...that way later if/when you add your fourth drive, you won't have to buy a new power supply

[22:43:34]

chaosrl:

Dagmar: awesome. thanks!

[22:43:45]

sphery:

heh, they moved it from the bottom of the list to the top of the list... :) http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp . . . N=2010320058 1409730089&bop=And&Order=PRICE

[22:43:46]

Dagmar:

There's a LOT of online power supply calculators

[22:43:51]

sphery:

for 80 PLUS PSU's

[22:44:17]

Dagmar:

...which is probably due to all the crazy ricers out there buying 1000W power supplies to look cool, and then writing bad reviews on them because they're noisy (no duh)

[22:44:20]

Josh_Borke:

B-Man: doubtful anyone has looked into it

[22:44:22]

chaosrl:

haha

[22:44:30]

chaosrl:

is 80 plus just a certification for psu's?

[22:44:34]

Dagmar:

Yeah

[22:44:46]

sphery:

yeah... certified to be a minimum efficiency level

[22:44:47]

Dagmar:

It's a reasonable enough cert that you can be somewhat sure you're not getting junk

[22:45:01]

B-Man:

Josh_Borke, So just stick with a CPU to output to the TV?

[22:45:12]

Josh_Borke:

b-man: yes

[22:45:20]

Dagmar:

It might still blow out in a year, but at least in the meantime it won't radiate heat like a large ATX bread toaster without good reason

[22:45:21]

sphery:

I have 5 of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371006 (and you can get free shipping with promo code EMCLRMT33 )

[22:45:54]

chaosrl:

haha

[22:46:06]

chaosrl:

i'll definately bookmark that one

[22:46:28]

Dagmar:

That's a good one

[22:47:00]

Dagmar:

Geez, they're still letting newbs write reviews there

[22:47:01]

sphery:

This is why I love 80 PLUS: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/371460#371460 --just switching PSU's saves me $1.50/mo on each of my MythTV dedicated backends (at $0.10/kWh--which is actually less than I pay)

[22:47:09]

Dagmar:

"Cons: It's not modular and it's rather plain looking."

[22:47:25]

Dagmar:

Someone send that man a Bedazzler so he can glue rhinestones on it until he's happy

[22:47:39]

sphery:

heh

[22:48:16]

chaosrl:

haha

[22:48:34]

sphery:

chaosrl: I have the "free shipping" promo wrong... It's actually a $10 off (so $44.99 and free shipping with promo code)

[22:49:12]

chaosrl:

sphery: that's still awesome thanks!

[22:49:15]

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[22:49:27]

Josh_Borke:

newegg's power supply calculator is like 2 years old

[22:49:35]

chaosrl:

sphery: do you know how long the code will last?

[22:49:42]

sphery:

yeah, when I noticed that it was listed as free shipping, I was a bit confused :)

[22:49:58]

sphery:

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/Apr-0-20 . . . IGNEFL041609

[22:50:13]

sphery:

04/22/2009

[22:50:55]

chaosrl:

ok cool

[22:51:14]

** J-e-f-f-A has a Kill-A-Watt in transit, and is a little afraid to see what his backend with a "CoolerMaster" 600W supply is pulling... **

[22:51:21]

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[22:51:46]

Dagmar:

Probably about as much as a supermodel's hair dryer, just running all day long

[22:51:58]

J-e-f-f-A:

Dagmar: hehe.. ;-)

[22:52:19]

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[22:52:25]

sphery:

My MythTV backends pull more power than any other computer (because they have 3 HDD's and 2 tuner cards and 1 video card each), but they're still only about 150W average (almost 170W with the old PSU)

[22:52:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

Dagmar: Actually, probably less... as the electric bill went up ALOT when I left my little space heater on overnight a couple of times...

[22:52:41]

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[22:52:59]

sphery:

of course, they'd pull only about 130W if I didn't run SETI@home on them...

[22:53:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: I've got 9 HDDs in there... Plus PVR-500, PVR-250 and Firewire, etc. ;-)

[22:53:26]

sphery:

yeah, that's probably a wee bit more than 150W :)

[22:54:06]

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[22:54:41]

J-e-f-f-A:

I could measure the individual loads though with my new multimeter... (a clamp style) ;-)

[22:55:00]

meatmanek:

so I can't change channels on my pinnacle 800i

[22:55:42]

sphery:

meatmanek: if you're talking about when you use multirec and LiveTV, you need to use the NEXTCARD keybinding (you'll have to map it) or the OSD Menu to switch channels

[22:57:21]

sphery:

meatmanek: if that's the problem you're having, see, also, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/369358#369358 for details on how to reconfigure you system so it works the way you want

[22:57:30]

sphery:

but read the /whole/ post or you'll do it wrong

[22:57:34]

J-e-f-f-A:

Multirec on ATSC is almost useless for me as most of the channels don't have any sub-channels worth watching at the same time... ;-)

[22:58:01]

sphery:

(or you'll stop reading when you see the warning, so you'll never get to the approach where that warning doesn't apply)

[22:59:17]

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[23:03:40]

chaosrl:

sphery: using the thermaltake power supply calc., i got 329W. would that 430w supply be overkill, or is that good elbow room to have?

[23:03:52]

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[23:04:03]

Dagmar:

Did you tell the calculator you had as many hard drives as would fit in the case?

[23:04:12]

chaosrl:

i think so

[23:04:16]

chaosrl:

it's a microATX

[23:04:16]

meatmanek:

if you're drawing 329 watts at idle, 430 might not even be enough breathing room

[23:04:23]

chaosrl:

w/ 2 slots

[23:04:45]

Dagmar:

meatmanek: It would also make the calculator breathtakingly useless if it calculated idle power draw

[23:04:50]

chaosrl:

the calculator thing says "system load" at 90%

[23:04:56]

meatmanek:

ah, this is a calculator

[23:05:00]

Dagmar:

430w should be close enough

[23:05:05]

chaosrl:

ok cool

[23:05:05]

Dagmar:

That's enouogh overhead for 3–4 hard drives

[23:05:18]

chaosrl:

that's also w/ 2 extra pci cards that i don't really expect to use

[23:05:22]

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[23:05:29]

Dagmar:

Those shouldn't run more than 12w

[23:05:30]

chaosrl:

which is in addition to the tv tuner card

[23:05:33]

chaosrl:

oh ok

[23:05:33]

meatmanek:

it amazes me how much more power desktops use than laptops

[23:06:13]

chaosrl:

i guess i didn't think about that

[23:06:24]

chaosrl:

is it just me, or does powertop tell me that my netbook uses 8.9W?

[23:06:31]

chaosrl:

is that scaled down somehow?

[23:06:33]

Dagmar:

It's mistaken

[23:06:33]

** mattmatteh_ thinks its sad that desktops use/waste that much power **

[23:06:54]

Dagmar:

It's not using as much as a desktop but 8.9w is unlikely

[23:07:13]

Dibblah:

8.9w is perfectly possible, sans screen.

[23:07:15]

meshe:

not necessarily, the nettops are very low on power usage now

[23:07:29]

meshe:

chaosrl: what make/model is your nettop?

[23:07:38]

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[23:07:39]

chaosrl:

on my 15.4 inch laptop powertop tells me a usage of 25W usually

[23:07:51]

chaosrl:

meshe: acer aspireone 9"

[23:08:01]

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[23:08:15]

Dagmar:

That would definitely be it's lowest-power mode if it's correct

[23:08:24]

chaosrl:

yeah

[23:08:26]

sphery:

chaosrl: for my system that measures an average 150W draw at 100% CPU (and with several hours of multi-card recording per day), it tells me 226W. I'm actually drawing about 150W (at the wall) and I have a 430W PSU.

[23:08:37]

mattmatteh_:

meshe, do you know of any nettops that are arm based ? ( and work with opensource software)

[23:08:38]

chaosrl:

well it starts out at around 11W

[23:09:03]

meshe:

mattmatteh_: sorry, no

[23:09:10]

sphery:

chaosrl: but the wonderful thing about the 80 PLUS PSU's is that they're guaranteed to be 80% efficient from 20% to 100% load--so you get 80% conversion efficiency as long as you're drawing at least 86W

[23:09:13]

mattmatteh_:

:(

[23:09:27]

Dagmar:

So, as long as you don't yank the CPU out

[23:09:47]

chaosrl:

that's good to know, and i dont plan on yanking the cpu out, at least not now :P

[23:10:23]

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[23:10:35]

gbee:

heh, calculator is just what I was looking for ... results are interesting too, 250W

[23:10:57]

sphery:

seems they have a bit of "engineering factor" in there, thuogh

[23:11:22]

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[23:11:32]

meshe:

sorry for the OT, but why is "how to kill a cat" the 3rd most searched phrase using the word "cat"?

[23:11:38]

** meshe shakes her head **

[23:11:43]

sphery:

I guess they'd have to, though, as they don't ask for specific mobo chipset info (and chipsets have a /lot/ of variation)

[23:11:50]

EvilBob:

meshe: cats are Evil

[23:11:55]

Dagmar:

Because mockingbirds are so last century

[23:11:55]

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[23:12:00]

sphery:

lots of dogs use the 'net?

[23:12:12]

Dagmar:

cuz no one knows if you are one

[23:12:16]

meshe:

my cat was a hacker

[23:12:34]

chaosrl:

haha

[23:13:34]

meshe:

used to sit on my CRT and watch everything i was doing, then when i was out, he was trying to hack my login prompt

[23:15:52]

meshe:

sorry, back to our regulary schedule myth talk

[23:17:46]

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[23:19:38]

bbeattie:

anyone else see a segfault in gallery when randomly select to view images full screen? .21-fixes branch

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[23:49:28]

blackest:

is there any reason a symlink shouldnt be used in place of an actual device ?

[23:49:49]

Dagmar:

Only if it's one you just made up yourself

[23:49:53]

wagnerrp:

what are you referring to?

[23:50:02]

sphery:

blackest: it works for analog cards, but not really for digital

[23:50:19]

sphery:

blackest: we have some naming assumptions in Myth for digital cards devices

[23:50:50]

blackest:

i have two hybrid cards and i'm using one for analog comp in

[23:51:29]

blackest:

problem is video0 and video1 move round so i created a udev rule so the one I want is always dvb-t210

[23:51:44]

blackest:

now xawtv works fine with it

[23:51:44]

iamlindoro:

It'll *work* with digital, it's just a pain in the butt and you have to use the same naming convention (ie symlink everything under adapter0 to adapter8 or whatever)

[23:52:28]

blackest:

problem is zoneminder will only work with video0 or video1 its a real pain in the ...

[23:52:30]

sphery:

blackest: better (for now) would be to make the udev rule keep them consistent

[23:52:48]

sphery:

best would be to patch Myth so it can use whatever name you make up :)

[23:53:25]

sphery:

unfortunately, udev isn't something that most users are interested in learning...

[23:53:53]

sphery:

but if you'd prefer to learn some C++/Qt/MythTV coding, you do have the option ;)

[23:54:12]

blackest:

udev rule works for xawtv but its not working for zoneminder and i'd rather not give both devices to zoneminder as i'd like to be able to watch some tv with the sat card

[23:54:47]

sphery:

well, when it comes to udev, there's always a way... the hard part is finding that way :(

[23:55:06]

blackest:

well let me show you my way :)

[23:56:24]

blackest:

KERNEL=="video[0–9]*", BUS=="pci", ATTRS{device}=="0x0350", ATTRS{vendor}=="0x109e",SYMLINK="car", GROUP="video"

[23:56:24]

blackest:

KERNEL=="video[0–9]*", BUS=="pci", ATTRS{device}=="0x7134", ATTRS{vendor}=="0x1131",SYMLINK="mercury", GROUP="video"

[23:56:24]

blackest:

KERNEL=="video[0–9]*", BUS=="pci", ATTRS{device}=="0x7133", ATTRS{vendor}=="0x1131",SYMLINK="dvb-t210", GROUP="video"

[23:56:24]

blackest:

KERNEL=="video[0–9]*", BUS=="pci", ATTRS{device}=="0x8800", ATTRS{vendor}=="0x14f1",SYMLINK="dvb-s100", GROUP="video"

[23:56:30]

sphery:

pastebin!

[23:56:39]

jams:

blackest- use pastebin

[23:58:38]

blackest:

ihttp://pastebin.ca/1397815

[23:59:15]

blackest:

the first two are cards not in the system any more

[23:59:46]

blackest:

and it seems ok for xawtv but ...

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