Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, March 16th, 2009, 00:07 UTC

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xjunior:

what is the default mythtv command for video player? (On player settings)

[00:33:23]

cesman:

whatever you want it to be

[00:33:36]

cesman:

Internal will use MythTV's internal player

[00:33:44]

cesman:

if you have mplayer installed, you can use that

[00:33:51]

cesman:

xine, vlc, etc...

[00:35:07]

xjunior:

cesman, yeah, I want to use mplayer, but I don't remember what is the command to run for mplayer.... all those parameters

[00:35:29]

cesman:

you can use whatever parameters you want

[00:35:48]

xjunior:

ok, but what are the default or recommended parameters?

[00:35:53]

cesman:

most basic would be something like mplayer -vo xv -fs -zoom

[00:36:15]

cesman:

there are _no_ default paramater, use what you want

[00:37:38]

xjunior:

cesman, I know, I just want to know the "recommended", but that's ok

[00:37:42]

xjunior:

I'll keep trying it here

[00:38:04]

xjunior:

bye

[00:38:15]

cesman:

there is no recommended

[00:38:19]

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[00:38:26]

cesman:

ack

[00:39:17]

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jroysdon is now known as jroysdon-ox

[00:40:05]

jroysdon2 is now known as jroysdon

[00:41:43]

jroysdon:

I have a pvr1600 which has an analog and digital tuner on it. The analog for my cable looks like crud on many channels. The digital looks nice and crisp. How can I tell Mythtv to start LiveTV with the digital tuner if available, and not the analog?

[00:42:17]

wagnerrp:

delete your tuners, add the digital tuner first

[00:42:24]

jroysdon:

argh!, really?

[00:42:40]

** iamlindoro wonders what's to argh about readding tuners **

[00:42:40]

wagnerrp:

well you can go in and set the priorities

[00:42:42]

iamlindoro:

er so

[00:42:45]

wagnerrp:

but its easier to just re-do them

[00:43:07]

jroysdon:

I have set the priority. Higher is better, right? I have set the digital as priority 1, and the analog is at 0

[00:43:20]

jroysdon:

(for recording schedules, the digital is preferred unless there is a conflict)

[00:43:23]

iamlindoro:

priority won't help w/ liveTV, re-add them

[00:43:33]

jroysdon:

Ok. So will I lose all my channel mappings?

[00:43:36]

iamlindoro:

It's not like you even need to rescan, it's a 30 second exercise

[00:43:45]

jroysdon:

Ok, it'll remember all of them?

[00:43:49]

iamlindoro:

no, if you don't delete your video source nothing will change

[00:44:01]

jroysdon:

Ah, ok. Phew

[00:44:10]

iamlindoro:

make sure to use "delete all tuners" and not "delete all tuners on $hostname"

[00:44:10]

jroysdon:

So, delete all tuners, add back the digital first, then the analogs, right?

[00:44:14]

iamlindoro:

yes

[00:44:18]

jroysdon:

Ah, ok

[00:44:35]

iamlindoro:

and *do not* delete your listings sources/video soruces

[00:44:35]

wagnerrp:

and then go back and re-attach your video sources to your 'new' cards

[00:44:38]

jroysdon:

(actually, I've got two analog tuners for the pvr500, plus the analog of the pvr1600 and the digital of it)

[00:44:44]

wagnerrp:

you should only touch items 2 and 4

[00:44:46]

iamlindoro:

and it's HVR, by the way

[00:44:47]

jroysdon:

iamlindoro, right, I think I get that

[00:44:48]

iamlindoro:

not PVR

[00:44:52]

jroysdon:

oooh, thanks

[00:45:12]

jroysdon:

Why did I call it pvr? Was there ever such a product?

[00:45:18]

iamlindoro:

PVR-500, HVR-1600

[00:45:28]

jroysdon:

ah, ok, I have a pvr500 and hvr1600

[00:45:30]

iamlindoro:

yes

[00:45:30]

** jroysdon nods **

[00:45:57]

jroysdon:

Hey, what about re-ordering the channels in livetv?

[00:46:09]

iamlindoro:

What about it?

[00:46:12]

jroysdon:

My cable provider has things all out of order. I've edited the numbers, but they're still in the frequency added-order

[00:46:35]

iamlindoro:

Wouldn't know, don't use liveTV

[00:46:36]

jroysdon:

They stuck all sorts of OTA .2 and .3 channels on the same number, far away from the real OTA number

[00:46:51]

jroysdon:

I know, I don't really use livetv myself, except to test here

[00:47:08]

jroysdon:

I'm still trying to map all the channels

[00:47:36]

jroysdon:

My provider is less than helpful, and I have no set-top box to compare with, and my analog channels don't have many of these "extra" digital channels

[00:47:50]

jroysdon:

Ok, lemme fix these controllers

[00:48:26]

jroysdon:

Oh, and if someone did watch livetv on the digital and it was to record in 1 minute, will it take over that tuner, or prompt the user, or how does that work? (I'll probably just remove livetv from the menu anyway, so it won't matter)

[00:49:19]

jroysdon:

And if it does take over the digital, will it just give the analog to the livetv?

[00:49:37]

iamlindoro:

it will prompt you to cancel the recording, or to be bumped out to the menu

[00:49:50]

jroysdon:

and if you do nothing, it'll bump you out to the menu?

[00:50:03]

iamlindoro:

Do it and find out, again, I don't use live TV

[00:50:10]

jroysdon:

lol, ok, fair enough

[00:50:12]

iamlindoro:

no recollection of what the default is

[00:50:24]

iamlindoro:

ISTR it's cancel the recording, but I can't say for sure

[00:50:58]

jroysdon:

ok, back to re-ordering the tuners. Go into 4 and remove the connections? Or just go into 2 and remove all tuners, then add back, then map them in 4, right?

[00:51:09]

iamlindoro:

yes

[00:51:48]

iamlindoro:

(the latter)

[00:51:54]

jroysdon:

gotcha

[00:52:17]

jroysdon:

argh! I gotta kill this stupid hibernate key on this keyboad

[00:53:01]

jroysdon:

I reached over to grab the keyboard, and it is the top-left key

[00:53:58]

jroysdon:

does sd recorded on a digital tuner take up the same space as on an analog tuner?

[00:54:54]

iamlindoro:

Digital Tuner bitrates are set by the broadcaster-- it's unlikely that their bitrate setting will ever exactly match what your analog bitrate setting is, especially as it's variable bitrate

[00:55:05]

iamlindoro:

You have no control over the size of digital recordings-- you do over analog ones

[00:55:27]

jroysdon:

ah, ok. But on average is it comparable or bigger?

[00:55:36]

jroysdon:

(for sd)

[00:55:53]

iamlindoro:

Read what I told you above, the question doesn't make sense

[00:56:07]

iamlindoro:

*you* set the bitrate for analog-- so how could there be an "on average" comparison?

[00:56:19]

iamlindoro:

since what *you* set will vary between people

[00:56:39]

jroysdon:

Ok, as I didn't change the bitrate for analog, what is the default option, and how does that compare to digital sd?

[00:56:57]

iamlindoro:

if YOU set your analog recordings to be obscenely high bitrate, they might be bigger than digital recordings... if your broadcaster sets obscenely LOW bitrates, they might be lower than your bitrate setting

[00:57:03]

iamlindoro:

AGHHKL:GHK:GASDF:KLGHG:LZDFHG:ADFGHK:GHS

[00:57:12]

iamlindoro:

There is NO WAY TO TELL YOU

[00:57:19]

jroysdon:

lol, ok

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Shadow__X:

iamlindoro, you tell em

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

[01:14:35]

sphery:

grung0r: Guide coming up slowly in LiveTV with HDTV is probably due to your Playback Profile/deinterlacer (i.e. don't use box or other 2x deinterlacers). My recommendation is to use the (default configuration of the Slim playback profile group).

[01:16:04]

sphery:

grung0r: as far as LiveTV's choosing the HDTV capture card, it will do that unless you tell Myth you prefer LiveTV and recordings on the SDTV capture card--but then it will use it for recordings, too, first. Alternately, mark "Avoid conflicts between LiveTV and recordings" and LiveTV will use the least preferred-tuner (your SDTV tuner) and recordings will use your most-preferred tuners (your HDTV tuners).

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[01:20:48]

mzb_d800:

I'm getting spontaneous reboots from the main menu using trunk with mythwelcome

[01:24:55]

mzb_d800:

s/with mythwelcome/with\/without mythwelcome

[01:25:48]

mzb_d800:

box was previously stable on 0.21 fixes so not convinced of hardware problem

[01:26:16]

mzb_d800:

no errors in frontend log (-v important)

[01:27:25]

mzb_d800:

appears to occur every few minutes

[01:38:44]

mzb_d800:

does not occur during playback

[01:39:01]

kormoc:

erm

[01:39:33]

kormoc:

it reboots only when running the frontend?

[01:39:43]

kormoc:

so if you're not running the frontend it doesn't reboot?

[01:40:40]

mzb_d800:

correct

[01:40:53]

mzb_d800:

nor does it reboot if playing livetv|recording

[01:41:14]

kormoc:

what painter?

[01:41:14]

mzb_d800:

only if idle in the menu

[01:41:20]

mzb_d800:

qt iirc

[01:41:35]

kormoc:

swap to opengl and see if that changes anything?

[01:41:42]

mzb_d800:

on M10K?

[01:41:48]

kormoc:

hrm

[01:41:58]

kormoc:

no idea what that is

[01:42:39]

mzb_d800:

running with "-v all" atm, but now appears that ${WOMAN} has decided to watch tv :|

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** iamlindoro cries **

[01:45:03]

kormoc:

for humanity?

[01:45:04]

iamlindoro:

I really REALLY want to have a SG function to return all files for a given group on all hosts... but I *really REALLY REALLY* don't want to write it

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sphery:

iamlindoro: all files on all hosts would be difficult because of what to do for missing/unavailable hosts...

[01:47:34]

jroysdon:

You'd have to wait

[01:47:38]

iamlindoro:

sphery, For the purpose at hand that wouldn't be relevant

[01:47:39]

mzb_d800:

guess?

[01:47:52]

iamlindoro:

sphery, Am fixing SG support for trailers

[01:47:53]

sphery:

though all files for a specific host would be much more workable (at least if I were writing it :)

[01:48:04]

iamlindoro:

sphery, Yes, I am thinking I'll likely fall back to that

[01:48:47]

sphery:

cool...

[01:49:04]

sphery:

I'm going to watch a little TV, now... Might actually do some work this week, though. :)

[01:49:11]

iamlindoro:

don't tease

[01:49:35]

squish102:

ok, ive messed up what is recorded. I am trying to delete all recordings. I have deleted all files in directory, now trying to go into mythweb and delete them from there. they look like they delete, but after refresh they back. i have even tried to create empty files again :(

[01:49:49]

squish102:

even myth.find_orphans.pl doesn't seem to work

[01:50:29]

sphery:

squish102: you can do it from mythfrontend (one by one with lots of confirmation prompts)

[01:50:52]

squish102:

ok, i'll try. i was hoping the same would work from mythweb

[01:50:56]

sphery:

though the touch approach would be easiest--just make sure you touch files with the right ownership/permissions (or chown/chmod)

[01:51:11]

sphery:

(which is my guess why the empty files didn't work for you)

[01:51:20]

squish102:

frontend first then i'll go through touch again

[01:56:32]

squish102:

thanks sphery, frontend is working (after lots of prompts!)

[02:13:11]

jroysdon:

Are there any dual-tuner digital cards (to record two digital shows at once)?

[02:14:03]

jroysdon:

Also, to record encrypted cable/sat shows, what's the best input available? Svideo and using the zapper to change the channel on the cable/sat set-top box?

[02:14:04]

wagnerrp:

divco has one, and then theres the HDHR, which is network attached

[02:14:18]

wagnerrp:

theres also a hauppauge dual hybrid tuner, with mpeg encoders

[02:14:35]

wagnerrp:

but no linux or mythtv support for that one yet

[02:14:45]

jroysdon:

Ah, ok. What model is that (the hauppauge)?

[02:14:54]

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[02:15:51]

wagnerrp:

doesnt matter, it doesnt work with mythtv

[02:16:15]

jroysdon:

yeah, but I'd like to know to avoid it ;-p

[02:16:26]

jroysdon:

anyway, it's all good

[02:17:09]

jroysdon:

I've a few friends that want to build some systems, so I'm trying to recommend the right parts. Telling them to buy 2–3 HVR-1600s seems less than optimal

[02:18:06]

squish102:

what about trying hdhomerun?

[02:18:24]

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[02:18:31]

squish102:

not that i have one, but i've only heard rave reviews

[02:20:39]

jroysdon:

Am I right regarding recording from a sat or encrypted cable, you must do it via svideo and must use a zapper, right?

[02:22:00]

jroysdon:

hdhomerun looks nice, but you still need to have a PC to record it... might as well have a board inside it instead of one more device. Unless it's cheaper. Cost range?

[02:22:07]

wagnerrp:

normally called an ir blaster, and yes and no, depending

[02:22:12]

clever:

you could use a DVB-S card to capture the unencrypted channels from a sat

[02:22:25]

wagnerrp:

encrypted cable, you can use firewire to change the channels on your STB

[02:22:35]

wagnerrp:

and you may be able to use firewire to actually pull the video off your stb

[02:22:56]

wagnerrp:

jroysdon: i got mine for $120

[02:23:00]

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[02:23:05]

wagnerrp:

but you can usually find them for $140-$180

[02:23:28]

wagnerrp:

the appeal of the HDHR is that its a very small device, that you can put in your attic or at the cable line in to the house

[02:23:34]

wagnerrp:

so your signal run is very short

[02:24:00]

jroysdon:

wagnerrp, yup, I hear you. Or if you want to have one in the attic for ota and one in the garage or whatever for cable

[02:25:46]

jroysdon:

Any idea what the firewire support is with most Comcast STB? Is the channel-changing pretty universal and the video access harder to find?

[02:26:13]

wagnerrp:

they MUST provide a functional firewire box

[02:26:22]

wagnerrp:

but theres nothing saying they have to give you any channels over it

[02:26:31]

wagnerrp:

as to what you can get... i dont know

[02:26:36]

wagnerrp:

i dont have firewire or comcast

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[02:30:45]

Shadow__X:

clever, you here

[02:30:52]

clever:

Shadow__X: yes

[02:32:21]

kormoc:

someone summoned clever, that's a first!

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[02:55:29]

squish102:

i have a dlink dsm320 upnp client. I think i have to take recordings, take them through remove_comercials.pl to a new name (because dlink does not support FF/Rewind) and then try figure out how to get it to an avi at standard def size

[02:55:56]

squish102:

because it only supports SD

[02:56:25]

squish102:

any tips on any other approch or ways to attack this?

[02:56:33]

mzb_d800:

user job?

[02:56:57]

squish102:

yip, but i have to probably build them up out of other contrib scripts

[02:57:14]

squish102:

because all this transcoding is > me

[02:57:53]

squish102:

maybe mediatomb (if i could figure it out) could transcode on the fly

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[03:05:16]

mzb_d800:

depending on the job, my script uses something like: $ mencoder -really-quiet $INFILE -oac mp3lame -ovc lavc=yes -of=avi -vf scale=640x480 -lavcopts vocdec=mpeg4:mbd=1 -o $OUTFILE

[03:05:20]

mzb_d800:

_but_

[03:06:20]

mzb_d800:

you'll probably find that you can do: $ mythtranscode -c $CHANID -s $STARTTIME .... with the right profile setting (setup a transcode profile?)

[03:06:25]

mzb_d800:

ymmv

[03:07:36]

squish102:

ok thanks, i'll look at both options

[03:08:12]

squish102:

i know the dlink is a POS device and is very picky about what it will play

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[03:11:08]

clever:

139 commercial break(s)

[03:11:24]

clever:

i can see atleast 10 programs in my jobqueue with 139 comercials!

[03:11:28]

clever:

that doesnt sound right

[03:18:25]

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[03:30:57]

kormoc:

Ha! Smile... You're under arrest is amusing

[03:31:47]

iamlindoro:

Sounds like a Dateline special :)

[03:32:10]

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[03:33:04]

kormoc:

It's a fox show, they setup a fake thing, such as, show up and win $300 or we want you to model clothes or what not, they make them do all sorts of weird stuff, then when they get suspicious, they do the whole, okay, time to come clean, it's really a fox show! they get all happy and then they are like, ooh, one more surprise! You're under arrest! it's amusing

[03:35:34]

iamlindoro:

Heh, that's a classic way of serving a warrant-- the old "Free TV" thing

[03:38:15]

kormoc:

Heh, to an extreme

[03:39:08]

iamlindoro:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6361

[03:39:22]

iamlindoro:

Even though in the end that description makes perfect sense, I still sprained my brain figuring it out

[03:41:02]

wagnerrp:

my computer is horrendously underpowered for crysis

[03:41:15]

iamlindoro:

Aren't *all* computers horrendously underpowered for it?

[03:41:21]

wagnerrp:

everything was fine, until the final battle

[03:41:35]

wagnerrp:

now im on some airfield, so the render distance is some ungodly several miles

[03:41:44]

wagnerrp:

and those several miles are filled with flying aliens

[03:41:44]

iamlindoro:

I haven't played it, but remember hearing about insane-spec computers that ran it at acceptable framerates at 640x480

[03:42:14]

wagnerrp:

theres at least 200 enemies on screen

[03:43:14]

kormoc:

That's like supreme commander, up to 8000 units onscreen at once

[03:44:47]

iamlindoro:

I don'

[03:44:50]

iamlindoro:

oops :)

[03:45:43]

iamlindoro:

I don't think it's a nationwide thing, but the only season of Lost I don't have in original HD is Season 2... but coincidentally and luckily, ABC here is running lost at 12:35 on Sunday nights... and it's Season 2, with no logos/etc.

[03:45:55]

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[03:46:15]

iamlindoro:

Would be curious to know if any of the rest of you have that on the schedule, though.. it's a very lucky break for me, though, as who knows when it'll come out on Blu-ray

[03:46:56]

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[03:53:21]

wagnerrp:

well i now have my trusty superweapon... but my framerate is too low to effectively aim it

[03:56:34]

iamlindoro:

spray and pray, baby

[04:01:25]

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[04:01:43]

wagnerrp:

well they gave me unlimited ammo

[04:01:57]

wagnerrp:

but its one of those fire, wait 10 seconds for recharge, kind of things

[04:02:15]

jroysdon:

I have commercial flagging turned on while it is recording. Is there a way to set it to do that only if there is only 1 show getting recorded?

[04:02:30]

wagnerrp:

i thought i was going to have to fight the giant 300ft walker

[04:02:39]

wagnerrp:

but it seems i only had to kill the smaller 70ft walker

[04:02:52]

iamlindoro:

jroysdon, no

[04:02:53]

jroysdon:

You playing Starwars? ;-p

[04:02:56]

wagnerrp:

jroysdon: are you saying you dont want multiple shows to be commflagged simultaneously?

[04:03:04]

jroysdon:

wagnerrp, yup

[04:03:16]

wagnerrp:

set your job queue size to 1

[04:03:19]

iamlindoro:

you can just set max jobs to 1, though

[04:03:21]

jroysdon:

Things are running a little sluggish at times, and the top CPU hog is mythcommflag

[04:03:26]

jroysdon:

It is set to 1

[04:03:27]

wagnerrp:

then only one show gets commflagged at a time

[04:03:31]

wagnerrp:

ever

[04:03:39]

wagnerrp:

regardless of how many are recording

[04:03:43]

jroysdon:

Ah, ok, so it doesn't flag it while it is recording?

[04:03:51]

wagnerrp:

one at a time

[04:03:54]

jroysdon:

Or it does, but only one show at a time

[04:03:59]

jroysdon:

Ah, ok. Hrm

[04:04:15]

wagnerrp:

one show runs in real time, meaning it takes very little CPU (well what is your CPU?)

[04:04:23]

wagnerrp:

the rest run at full speed once the first is done

[04:04:42]

jroysdon:

AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5200+

[04:05:03]

wagnerrp:

that chip will have absolutely no problem running ATSC on one core

[04:05:07]

jroysdon:

it is staying at a consistent 60–80% idle

[04:05:28]

wagnerrp:

meaning even a commflag sucking one full core (and it will only do one core since its single threaded), playback should not be an issue

[04:05:32]

jroysdon:

I'm thinking it is my cruddy onboard nvidia card (my add-on nvidia died)

[04:05:49]

wagnerrp:

do you have the nvidia drivers installed? with xv working?

[04:06:17]

jroysdon:

Whatever Mythdora did. I believe so. Not sure

[04:06:30]

wagnerrp:

it should have set things up

[04:06:46]

jroysdon:

How can I tell via cli? The $woman is watchin a show

[04:07:08]

wagnerrp:

'DISPLAY=:0.0 xdpyinfo | less'

[04:07:13]

wagnerrp:

look under the extensions

[04:07:26]

wagnerrp:

should be an 'XVideo'

[04:07:41]

jroysdon:

well, I just have ssh access at the moment. Someone is watchin' a show

[04:07:50]

jroysdon:

xdpyinfo: unable to open display ":0.0".

[04:08:00]

wagnerrp:

well then whats the display youre using?

[04:08:12]

wagnerrp:

you have to be running a display if someone is watching tv

[04:08:21]

jroysdon:

yup, so how do I check? ;-p

[04:08:29]

jroysdon:

(w/o interrupting them)

[04:08:33]

wagnerrp:

ps ax | grep X

[04:08:45]

wagnerrp:

should be a ':<number>'

[04:08:51]

jroysdon:

/usr/bin/Xorg :0 -nr -verbose -auth /var/run/gdm/auth-for-gdm-NgHVew/database -nolisten tcp vt1

[04:09:09]

wagnerrp:

thats display 0...

[04:09:18]

wagnerrp:

are you trying to run this as the owner of the X server?

[04:09:33]

jroysdon:

uhm, nah, lemme try it as mythtv

[04:10:56]

jroysdon:

Not sure if this will help, it spit out a bunch, but I see some NV stuff:

[04:10:56]

jroysdon:

NV-CONTROL

[04:10:56]

jroysdon:

NV-GLX

[04:11:09]

wagnerrp:

what about 'XVideo'?

[04:11:19]

jroysdon:

yup

[04:11:30]

wagnerrp:

well thats not the problem then...

[04:11:40]

wagnerrp:

how long is the recording? and how long does mythtv think it is?

[04:11:58]

wagnerrp:

ive seen some problems on mine where it thinks a 1hr recording is only 52 minutes

[04:12:00]

jroysdon:

It is still recording, 2.5 hours

[04:12:13]

wagnerrp:

it plays fast and skips as a result

[04:12:26]

jroysdon:

But there is a digital show recording and an analog as well

[04:12:54]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, none of this should even matter because youre not even using one full core

[04:13:21]

jroysdon:

disk access issue?

[04:13:50]

wagnerrp:

possibly, probably not

[04:13:52]

jroysdon:

Argh, I don't seem to have a CBS HD channel (or at least secondary channel, which is where the other stations seem to play their HD content)

[04:14:16]

jroysdon:

Is The Unit broadcast in HD?

[04:14:17]

wagnerrp:

an HD stream is a measily 2MB/s

[04:14:35]

iamlindoro:

Yes, the Unit is broadcast in HD

[04:14:43]

wagnerrp:

all major series on major networks are probably in HD by now

[04:14:48]

jroysdon:

ugh, I wonder why my scan didn't find/add the other CBS channel

[04:14:59]

wagnerrp:

broadcast or cable?

[04:15:01]

jroysdon:

Do they broadcast the HD version of the show on another sub-channel?

[04:15:13]

jroysdon:

cable, comcast. I have sub-channels for all the other networks

[04:15:22]

iamlindoro:

individual architectures vary by headend/region/etc.

[04:15:23]

jroysdon:

(that's where I see the hd content most of the time)

[04:15:25]

wagnerrp:

did you scan Cable, or Cable-High?

[04:15:36]

jroysdon:

I scanned cable, I believe

[04:15:43]

jroysdon:

It found all the rest of what I'd expect

[04:15:55]

jroysdon:

perhaps they stuck cbs higher up, eh?

[04:16:04]

iamlindoro:

cable includes cable-high

[04:16:08]

wagnerrp:

'Cable' should scan the whole range

[04:16:25]

wagnerrp:

cable-high is just all channels above 78

[04:16:26]

jroysdon:

ah, ok. hmm. I guess I can check the lineup

[04:16:28]

jroysdon:

ah

[04:16:33]

jroysdon:

found plenty of those

[04:16:39]

wagnerrp:

usually below that are analog

[04:16:43]

wagnerrp:

above that are digital

[04:16:59]

jroysdon:

they put a bunch of our digital at 72

[04:17:20]

jroysdon:

like from 70 – 74 or something, and then there are more analog, and then more digital up high

[04:17:22]

wagnerrp:

comcast recently dropped most of their analog lineup, in favor of digital

[04:17:31]

jroysdon:

not in my area, not yet anyway

[04:17:38]

jroysdon:

(but good thing I'm adding digital)

[04:17:51]

wagnerrp:

i have a couple of channels on 27 (former HBO)

[04:18:08]

wagnerrp:

you may be picking stuff up on dropped premium channels

[04:18:25]

jroysdon:

"dropped" ?

[04:18:34]

wagnerrp:

channels formerly on analog

[04:18:39]

wagnerrp:

and now only available on digital

[04:18:47]

wagnerrp:

i no longer have any scrambled channels

[04:18:53]

wagnerrp:

as those were all moved to digital only

[04:19:10]

jroysdon:

oh, I see. I dunno, I have a filter on mine as I just have mini-basic

[04:19:16]

jroysdon:

it screws with a few of my analog channels too

[04:19:21]

jroysdon:

w/o the filter they look perfect

[04:19:46]

jroysdon:

but with digital it looks perfect as well, so I don't care, and I'm tired of going rounds with Comcast who doesn't even know what channels I should get

[04:23:30]

jroysdon:

ok, my lineup shows I have just one CBS digital channel with the call letters of my local affiliate. Does that mean that they may not be broadcasting HD content? I mean, can they broadcast HD content on the same channel and can regular SD-only displays see it just fine?

[04:24:17]

wagnerrp:

digital cable is just a bitstream

[04:24:22]

wagnerrp:

its whatever you want it to be

[04:24:39]

wagnerrp:

a couple HD channel

[04:24:44]

wagnerrp:

several SD channels

[04:24:49]

jroysdon:

But could they send HD content and folks with non-HD displays (and a STB) still view it just fine?

[04:24:49]

wagnerrp:

or a ton of audio-only channels

[04:24:56]

wagnerrp:

or mix and match

[04:25:15]

wagnerrp:

theres some 38Mbps per channel that they can divvy as they please

[04:25:22]

kormoc:

jroysdon, some STB's can down sample

[04:25:26]

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[04:25:40]

jroysdon:

In other words, do they need to send both a SD and HD copy of the same show on two different "channels"?

[04:26:01]

jroysdon:

Or can they just send one HD version and everyone use that?

[04:26:20]

wagnerrp:

one channel for all

[04:26:50]

wagnerrp:

any digital receiver will be able to decode a fully bitrate video stream

[04:27:00]

jroysdon:

hrmh, so I wonder why a few affiliates show one copy of the show on the "main" channel and it is not flagged as HD, and on a sub-channel as HD?

[04:27:15]

wagnerrp:

theyre both subchannels

[04:27:22]

jroysdon:

ok, whatever, but why send both?

[04:27:44]

kormoc:

jroysdon, really, none of us can answer that, we can only guess

[04:27:46]

jroysdon:

Also, with the remote, how can I put in a "-" for the subchannels, or should I just assign another number or something?

[04:27:46]

wagnerrp:

in my area, ABC and NBC both have their primary signal, plus a news/weather channel

[04:28:02]

jroysdon:

wagnerrp, same, but sometimes they show the same show on the "weather" channel in HD

[04:28:03]

wagnerrp:

CBS transmits CW on their second subchannel

[04:28:04]

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[04:28:22]

jroysdon:

ah, that may be the case here, CW may just be the second subchannel

[04:28:23]

wagnerrp:

FOX transmits THIS-TV on their second subchannel

[04:28:42]

wagnerrp:

jroysdon: its for them to do whatever they wish

[04:28:44]

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[04:28:51]

wagnerrp:

they can show the same content, they can show different content

[04:29:06]

jroysdon:

yup, I have THIS as a secondary for ... not FOX, but a local non-affiliate "MY58"

[04:29:19]

wagnerrp:

they can even show telletubbies 24 hours a day

[04:29:30]

jroysdon:

Jewelry TV mostly

[04:29:30]

jroysdon:

heh

[04:29:40]

jroysdon:

makes finding out what channels is what during non-primetime harder

[04:29:57]

wagnerrp:

its whatever schedules direct tells you it is

[04:30:12]

jroysdon:

well, it's not as easy as that mapping things

[04:30:13]

wagnerrp:

and if it is not what schedules direct tells you it is, then you need to take that up with schedules direct

[04:30:19]

wagnerrp:

it IS that easy

[04:30:23]

jroysdon:

I have to map up the stupid subchannels which make no sense to the xmltv ids

[04:30:24]

wagnerrp:

its just that easy!

[04:30:40]

jroysdon:

No, no it is not. The sub-channels that the scanning found match nothing

[04:30:49]

jroysdon:

So I have like 8 California Channels

[04:30:55]

wagnerrp:

they are on your digital lineup somewhere

[04:31:01]

wagnerrp:

i see what youre saying

[04:31:06]

jroysdon:

right, they are the subchannels of the affiliates

[04:31:07]

wagnerrp:

you cant figure out what they are

[04:31:08]

jroysdon:

in odd-ball places

[04:31:22]

jroysdon:

I can, just not during off-hours with JewelryTV on all of them

[04:31:25]

jroysdon:

(or many of them)

[04:31:47]

wagnerrp:

yeah, it would be nice if SD would provide an online schedule for these purposes

[04:32:23]

jroysdon:

I mean, I have a list from SD about all my channels, but trying to map where they line up isn't easy. Even looking at silicondust.com it has mostly "unknown" for all of those

[04:32:47]

jroysdon:

Even if I could solve it and push it back for others, that'd be cool, since I'm sure I have the same as all of the greater Comcast-Stockton area

[04:33:05]

jroysdon:

(well, perhaps not, as I have local Modesto franchise public access)

[04:33:10]

wagnerrp:

silicondust just reports what the channels say they are

[04:33:21]

wagnerrp:

you arent going to get names for anything but the broadcast channels

[04:33:31]

jroysdon:

"broadcast" is relative

[04:33:38]

jroysdon:

to me, and their list anyway

[04:33:52]

wagnerrp:

jroysdon: the thing is that those numbers change

[04:33:56]

jroysdon:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui . . . stcode=95355

[04:34:00]

wagnerrp:

my QAM stations bounce around at least once a month

[04:34:26]

jroysdon:

See all the 78-N, 91-N, 103-N, etc.

[04:34:37]

jroysdon:

Really? So they will re-map later on?

[04:35:03]

wagnerrp:

i have a couple channels that do

[04:35:10]

wagnerrp:

im surprised PBS isnt named

[04:35:25]

jroysdon:

PBS is my channel 90

[04:35:39]

jroysdon:

as KVIE (my local affiliate)

[04:35:41]

jroysdon:

and KQED

[04:35:49]

wagnerrp:

im talking about KQED

[04:36:17]

jroysdon:

It is in the mess of UKNOWNs

[04:36:24]

jroysdon:

It is probably one of the 78-Xs

[04:36:30]

wagnerrp:

8

[04:36:38]

jroysdon:

yup

[04:36:43]

jroysdon:

How could you tell? What a mess

[04:36:56]

wagnerrp:

station logo

[04:36:59]

jroysdon:

(I just had my laptop with the analog channels up and matched up all the main sub-channels)

[04:37:05]

jroysdon:

Ah, right

[04:37:50]

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[04:38:08]

jroysdon:

See, I just have one CBS as KOVR 91–9

[04:38:16]

wagnerrp:

wow, you do have a lot of home shopping

[04:38:27]

jroysdon:

LOL, I have all those blocked

[04:38:41]

jroysdon:

That is just my zipcodes list

[04:39:20]

jroysdon:

I have that CBS/KOVR 91–9 (I re-mapped it to my local broadcast channel number or 13) – but it doesn't list The Unit as being broadcast in HD

[04:39:40]

jroysdon:

Since there is no other KOVR/CBS channel, I take it I cannot get The Unit in HD unless I could get it from OTA?

[04:40:33]

jroysdon:

Oh, and we have a gazillion Spanish channels too

[04:41:22]

wagnerrp:

what about kmax, 117–1?

[04:41:49]

jroysdon:

KMAX is CW

[04:41:53]

jroysdon:

No CBS content on there

[04:42:06]

jroysdon:

Like now Moonstruck is playing, no The Unit

[04:42:15]

wagnerrp:

oh, their site says cbs/cw

[04:42:31]

jroysdon:

Yeah, perhaps CBS owns KMAX

[04:43:10]

jroysdon:

CBS13 is KOVR, and CW31 is KMAX (CW)

[04:43:34]

wagnerrp:

so 116–5

[04:44:14]

jroysdon:

right, but that doesn't list The Unit as HD

[04:44:26]

wagnerrp:

does it list 'the unit' as playing?

[04:44:35]

jroysdon:

yes

[04:44:39]

jroysdon:

wait, I wonder if it is confused

[04:44:43]

wagnerrp:

well then its probably in HD

[04:44:50]

jroysdon:

I have it remapped as channel 13

[04:45:02]

jroysdon:

(I have both the analog and digital line-ups coming from SD)

[04:45:08]

wagnerrp:

and the station just didnt tell TMS that it was HD

[04:45:18]

wagnerrp:

and TMS didnt tell SD that it was HD

[04:45:19]

jroysdon:

yeah, or I just have the xmltv id for the SD channel

[04:45:27]

wagnerrp:

but think of it this way...

[04:45:29]

jroysdon:

lemme double-check that info

[04:45:45]

wagnerrp:

you can watch HDNET, in glorious 528x480i

[04:46:22]

jroysdon:

how so?

[04:46:45]

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[04:47:10]

jroysdon:

Ack, yup, the SD XMLID is different

[04:47:29]

wagnerrp:

im pointing out the irony that hdnet is being transmitted in SD

[04:47:33]

jroysdon:

So it may be in HD just fine

[04:47:38]

jroysdon:

oooh, I see

[04:47:42]

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[04:54:56]

jroysdon:

Ok, so while a show is recording, you cannot watch livetv on that tuner (obviously you cannot change the channel)? I wanted to edit the xmlid w/o going into mythtv setup

[04:56:11]

wagnerrp:

well you cant do that in the frontend

[04:56:25]

wagnerrp:

only mythtv-setup, or mythweb,

[04:56:43]

jroysdon:

ooh, mythweb

[04:57:02]

jroysdon:

(mythsetup kills the backend which kills shows recording, right?)

[04:57:09]

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[04:57:12]

wagnerrp:

no

[04:57:19]

cesman:

mythsetup shouldn't kill the backend

[04:57:23]

wagnerrp:

mythtv-setup needs access to the tuners for some tasks

[04:57:43]

wagnerrp:

which cannot happen if the backend has taken them

[04:57:53]

cesman:

if you going to make tuner changes, then you'll need to stop the backend

[04:57:59]

wagnerrp:

also, most settings in mythtv-setup will not take effect until a restart of backend and frontend

[05:06:11]

jroysdon:

Hrm, should I put an analog CBS on 13 and a digital CBS on 13 (each with different XMLTV IDs)? Otherwise, I'm not sure how I can see the difference in the chanenls, since it just shows one channel 13 in the listings...

[05:07:23]

wagnerrp:

number them, letter them, use untypeable ascii characters (can the database handle that)

[05:07:31]

wagnerrp:

those numbers only exist for your benefit

[05:07:33]

wagnerrp:

mythtv doesnt care

[05:07:49]

jroysdon:

ah, ok. How do I "type" other letters from my remote?

[05:08:04]

jroysdon:

(I could make them 13a vs. 13d)

[05:08:47]

cesman:

how are you going to use a remote to enter a and d?

[05:09:07]

wagnerrp:

well since the letters are usually used a hotkeys, you couldnt actually functionally use channels named with letters

[05:09:15]

wagnerrp:

im merely saying you *could* do that

[05:10:39]

jroysdon:

hmm, ok. I guess I could make it like 1301 and 1302, 1 being analog and 2 being digital... or something?

[05:10:40]

jroysdon:

argh

[05:10:53]

jroysdon:

(right, that was my question, how could I enter in an A or D)

[05:12:02]

clever:

thats basicaly what rogers did to my cable lineup:P

[05:12:09]

clever:

the sd and hd channels are paired up like that

[05:12:46]

wagnerrp:

well any aged mythtv user will raise the question... 'why do you need to be able to type in the channels?'

[05:13:09]

jroysdon:

It is faster to jump around when testing

[05:13:20]

jroysdon:

arrowing through channels is lame

[05:13:36]

wagnerrp:

the implication is that you will never use livetv

[05:13:44]

jroysdon:

(no, I don't use livetv normally, but for testing and fixing channel mappings and comparing things)

[05:14:06]

jroysdon:

Right, I totally get it. But end-users don't get that, but my family is mostly trained

[05:14:29]

jroysdon:

But when you have company over, they don't get it, heh

[05:15:04]

wagnerrp:

until you watch last night's shows, without the commercials

[05:15:20]

jroysdon:

Speaking of, MythTV needs a read-only mode (no deletes, no editing schedules) for when company is over

[05:15:36]

jroysdon:

wagnerrp, oh, I hear ya, but some morons just want to surf

[05:15:41]

wagnerrp:

been worked on since 2006

[05:15:50]

wagnerrp:

when people want to surf, you give them the TV remote

[05:15:58]

wagnerrp:

not the mythtv remote

[05:16:04]

jroysdon:

I have no tv remote

[05:16:07]

jroysdon:

I have no tv

[05:16:29]

wagnerrp:

tunerless tv? or computer monitor?

[05:16:38]

jroysdon:

computer monitor

[05:16:40]

wagnerrp:

or projector?

[05:17:17]

jroysdon:

the only tv we have is is connected to the wii in the game room

[05:17:29]

jroysdon:

heh, don't connect a wii through mythtv.... it doesn't work ;-p

[05:17:31]

jroysdon:

(lag, heh)

[05:17:32]

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[05:17:37]

wagnerrp:

yep...

[05:17:52]

jroysdon:

it had me going nuts

[05:18:04]

jroysdon:

I had to go get the tv from the garage for the wii, heh

[05:18:06]

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[05:18:15]

wagnerrp:

of course cheaper LCD/Plasmas arent really suited for games due to lag

[05:18:30]

jroysdon:

yeah, we have an old 4:3 toshiba

[05:18:56]

jroysdon:

best $300 I ever spent on a tv, probably my last for a "tv"

[05:19:24]

jroysdon:

(like 10 years ago)

[05:23:27]

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[05:25:26]

CaptObviousman:

ever?

[05:27:39]

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[05:31:53]

jroysdon:

yeah, I see no point, probably going to just get a projector in the future. We just have a bunch of laptops where most folks watch tv anywho. We've got a huge two-story wall that's as wide as two rooms. It'd work out nice for a projector

[05:33:05]

wagnerrp:

what exactly means 'one room wide'?

[05:33:33]

CaptObviousman:

do you have any windows at all near this large two-story wall?

[05:33:36]

wagnerrp:

thats kind of like volkswagons per square furlong, as a unit of pressure

[05:33:42]

CaptObviousman:

because for a projector room, you need it to be pretty dark

[05:34:08]

wagnerrp:

CaptObviousman: you can get blackout curtains

[05:34:15]

jroysdon:

the windows are in the far left and right sides of the room. Yeah, we'd probably want room darkening stuff

[05:34:21]

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[05:35:00]

jroysdon:

it's a living room and dining room wall with no wall separating them. It's a vaulted ceiling as well

[05:35:30]

jroysdon:

We don't really watch tv in the day, so just the summer when it stays light out would it be an issue

[05:35:55]

mzb_d800:

trunk FE has reset again (not in use, so idle in menu). Nothing in FE logs (-v all), nothing in syslog.

[05:35:57]

jroysdon:

I dunno, no plans anytime soon to buy it

[05:36:19]

jroysdon:

FE just dies and restarts?

[05:36:36]

mzb_d800:

whole machine reboots spontaneously

[05:36:55]

CaptObviousman:

my mythbox does that too. I'm pretty sure it's hardware

[05:37:07]

CaptObviousman:

for me anyway

[05:37:14]

mzb_d800:

this box was running 0.21 fixes and has been running very reliably

[05:37:37]

mzb_d800:

this *only* happens when left idle in the menu system

[05:37:59]

CaptObviousman:

starts comflagging?

[05:38:05]

mzb_d800:

can playback for hours of continuous use, then dies without warning when idle

[05:38:12]

mzb_d800:

it's FE-only (remote BE)

[05:38:20]

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[05:38:39]

mzb_d800:

going to try an apt-get upgrade, and perhaps a rebuild

[05:38:59]

** CaptObviousman is outta ideas **

[05:43:36]

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[05:47:06]

mzb_d800:

and again. *sigh*

[05:47:13]

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[05:48:17]

mzb_d800:

might try disconnecting the lcd and see what happens

[05:48:49]

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[05:55:54]

clever:

mzb_d800: first, i would go into every config option that can reboot the system and neuter them:P

[05:56:03]

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[05:56:03]

clever:

throw in a script to log 'ps -eH x'

[05:56:18]

mzb_d800:

nope, instant reboot, not a shutdown

[05:56:24]

clever:

wtf

[05:56:30]

clever:

ok

[05:56:33]

clever:

any serial port?

[05:56:50]

mzb_d800:

yeah, not going that router ... machine is other end of the house to me

[05:57:05]

clever:

could try netconsole

[05:57:10]

mzb_d800:

starting to suspect power spike from LCD (or something), hasn't reset yet

[05:57:17]

clever:

parm: netconsole: netconsole=[src-port]@[src-ip]/[dev],[tgt-port]@<tgt-ip>/[tgt-macaddr]

[05:57:22]

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[05:57:29]

mzb_d800:

might try a 1N4001 in the supply

[05:57:59]

clever:

something like modprobe -v netconsole netconsole=1234@10.0.0.60/eth0,1234@10.0.0.15/00:11:43:3B:4D:98

[05:58:16]

clever:

then use netcat in udp mode on port 1234 to capture it

[05:58:18]

mzb_d800:

shame really, only recently figured out how to almost half the box temp ;))

[05:58:45]

mzb_d800:

(by blocking off the vents on one side of the box!)

[05:58:49]

wagnerrp:

i seriously doubt that

[05:59:08]

wagnerrp:

if that were true, there are some scientists that would like to talk to you

[05:59:36]

mzb_d800:

it draws the air _across_ the box

[05:59:41]

wagnerrp:

no branch in particular

[05:59:59]

wagnerrp:

you just managed to overturn the base laws of thermodynamics

[06:00:02]

mzb_d800:

rather than from the vents closest to the exhaust

[06:01:10]

mzb_d800:

there are vents along both sides of the box, and a dual-fan arrangement on the exhaust.

[06:01:38]

** cesman wonders how long the fan on his video card wasn't working... **

[06:01:47]

cesman:

now that it is working, it is too damn loud

[06:01:57]

clever:

wagnerrp: you cant just throw more fans in and expect it to work

[06:02:12]

mzb_d800:

by blocking off the vents closest to the exhaust (there's no hdd or pci card) the heat from the cpu (opposite side of the box) is drawn through more efficiently

[06:02:12]

clever:

you need to plan out the airflow so it doesnt waste any

[06:02:21]

wagnerrp:

uh huh... youre just not going to drop CPU temperatures by 160C, just by rearranging some fans

[06:02:50]

mzb_d800:

it's a significant difference, trust me

[06:03:06]

wagnerrp:

you dont understand what im getting at do you...

[06:03:34]

mzb_d800:

probably not, not really reading the fine detail

[06:04:20]

wagnerrp:

you cannot multiply or divide fahrenheit or celsius values

[06:04:53]

wagnerrp:

if you 'halve' your temperature, you must be talking about kelvin or rankine

[06:05:06]

clever:

technicality:P

[06:05:13]

mzb_d800:

almost halved the numeric value representing the temperature (in celcius). Happy now?

[06:05:44]

wagnerrp:

i suppose

[06:05:50]

mzb_d800:

great!

[06:05:54]

wagnerrp:

thats just one of my peeves....

[06:06:11]

wagnerrp:

similar to people using the units 'watts per second'

[06:06:43]

wagnerrp:

sure, its a perfectly valid unit, but it's almost never used properly

[06:07:08]

clever:

how many 'watts per second' does a 100w light bulb use!

[06:07:46]

wagnerrp:

about 5000

[06:08:25]

clever:

wtf?

[06:08:52]

wagnerrp:

actually, it would be a lot more than that

[06:08:58]

wagnerrp:

since it would surge well past 100w

[06:09:07]

wagnerrp:

maybe 15k

[06:09:09]

clever:

lol

[06:09:24]

clever:

lets just saw it draws a perfect 100 watts of power

[06:09:27]

mzb_d800:

for a few ms

[06:09:28]

clever:

whats the formula!

[06:09:33]

wagnerrp:

startup time is on the order of tens of milliseconds

[06:10:28]

clever:

lets ignore the startuptime and say its allready running:P

[06:10:33]

mzb_d800:

nope, reboot is not from LCD

[06:10:50]

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[06:11:46]

wagnerrp:

alternatively, you could claim it runs at +/- 17kW/s

[06:12:04]

mzb_d800:

crap, just tried setting init 3 (turns X off) and the box rebooted. *sigh*

[06:12:32]

clever:

lol

[06:12:53]

wagnerrp:

im going to stop now...

[06:12:58]

mzb_d800:

ok, mythfe is off

[06:14:43]

mzb_d800:

starting to think it might be the RAM being fouled by the DVD drive (or something in that area)

[06:15:14]

wagnerrp:

stick in a flash drive loaded with memtest

[06:15:22]

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[06:15:28]

wagnerrp:

if operation is causing your memory to become unstable

[06:15:37]

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[06:15:43]

wagnerrp:

you may be able to catch it if you boot straight into memtest after a crash

[06:18:57]

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[06:20:01]

James1324:

hello!

[06:20:09]

wagnerrp:

hola

[06:20:28]

James1324:

whats new man

[06:21:11]

James1324:

I'm tried the mythtv for windows.. did anyone get it working properly?

[06:21:15]

James1324:

I've*

[06:21:15]

mzb_d800:

with mythfrontend not running box is still up

[06:21:35]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend compiled for windows? or one of the 3rd party programs?

[06:21:55]

James1324:

well, its all buggy for me :(

[06:22:26]

James1324:

I guess we just have to wait till better windows support comes

[06:22:45]

wagnerrp:

well what do you expect?

[06:23:07]

James1324:

I tried the win version 2 years ago, its a lot better now

[06:23:08]

wagnerrp:

its linux software hackishly modified to run under a linux-type environment under windows

[06:23:13]

James1324:

so I guess its all a matter of time

[06:25:36]

James1324:

I'm thinking about getting the HD-PVR from hauppauge.. but I heard that this box overheats a lot.. anyone use this for HD?

[06:25:58]

James1324:

I need HD with mythtv :)

[06:26:27]

wagnerrp:

only if youre running trunk

[06:26:52]

wagnerrp:

although i think if you managed to get the frontend running on windows, buggy or not, youre up to the challenge

[06:27:35]

mzb_d800:

FE still up. Doesn't appear to be hardware (directly).

[06:27:36]

James1324:

thanks man

[06:27:37]

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[06:28:23]

wagnerrp:

if youre going to use an HDPVR, read through the list archives on it

[06:28:34]

wagnerrp:

there are still some issues with support

[06:28:53]

James1324:

yeah true.. that's why I was considering SageTV.. but I'm not sure now

[06:29:17]

wagnerrp:

i think changing resolutions still trashes the hardware, requiring a reset

[06:29:27]

James1324:

but getting something free is nice too lol.. hard decision to make

[06:29:33]

wagnerrp:

or at least breaks recording

[06:30:01]

James1324:

ahh.. well in 720p feeds.. I think the commercials are a diff resolution

[06:30:10]

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[06:30:20]

James1324:

yeah, I'll look into this

[06:30:29]

James1324:

thanks for the guidance, I need to learn more about this

[06:30:57]

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[06:36:51]

mzb_d800:

yep, mythfrontend bad

[06:37:32]

mzb_d800:

resets almost straight away: http://openpaste.org/en/12359/

[06:38:38]

mzb_d800:

I'll try a rebuild

[06:38:50]

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[06:38:51]

mzb_d800:

(now that I've done an apt-get upgrade)

[06:38:59]

mzb_d800:

err... almost

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[07:10:11]

** justinh chuckles. mythtv on windows. ha **

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[07:18:55]

mzb_d800:

J-e-f-f-A: awake? Just working on a bi-state progress bar to show watched/recorded/total for livetv

[07:18:58]

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[07:19:56]

mzb_d800:

have done my own bignums, looks reasonable

[07:21:27]

justinh:

ahhh LCDproc – for systems with too little CPU power to use the OSD

[07:21:34]

mzb_d800:

:)

[07:21:58]

mzb_d800:

looks pretty ;)

[07:22:00]

mzb_d800:

http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/mythtv/LCD/

[07:22:35]

mzb_d800:

also means I've got a readable and accurate clock to look at

[07:22:38]

justinh:

I've been very tempted to play with LCD/VFD stuff.. but only because I _can_ rather than any necessity, and thus I think I found the root of all fascination with it

[07:22:50]

mzb_d800:

yep

[07:22:57]

mzb_d800:

icing on the cake (??)

[07:23:50]

mzb_d800:

just in the progress of decorating the icing

[07:24:21]

mzb_d800:

certainly not a "must have", but nice to play with

[07:26:40]

mzb_d800:

something like US$10 delivered, too. So a cheap amusement, at least.

[07:27:16]

justinh:

would be for me if my frontend's case would take one without a major dremeling

[07:27:42]

justinh:

no way I'm defacing such an expensive box on a whim :)

[07:28:23]

clever:

you could just hotglue the lcd panel to the TV :P

[07:28:24]

mzb_d800:

yeah, I took mine very slowly (case was au$140). Took me a day.

[07:29:03]

justinh:

clever: yeah I could but I think I prefer things to NOT LOOK LIKE ASS

[07:29:16]

Shadow__X:

duct tape

[07:29:17]

Shadow__X:

?

[07:29:30]

Shadow__X:

velcro wouldnt be bad

[07:29:38]

Shadow__X:

or atleast as bad as tape or glue

[07:29:40]

justinh:

duct tape is better used to stop people with silly ideas breathing

[07:29:55]

mzb_d800:

invisible string + sticky tape ?

[07:30:06]

Shadow__X:

justinh, i believe that exposed wires are better

[07:30:24]

kormoc:

I just tell them to die in a fire, that typically gets the point across

[07:32:37]

justinh:

I wish somebody would shut ylee up once & for all. "muh, I believe there's no such thing as mixed progressive/interlaced content in the wild". Yeah? Funny

[07:34:39]

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[07:35:08]

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[07:35:35]

Shadow__X:

system load is 12

[07:35:38]

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[07:35:43]

Shadow__X:

:(

[07:36:29]

clever:

mine is falsely reading 10/10/10

[07:36:49]

clever:

~10 processes are hardlocked because they touched cpufreq

[07:37:24]

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[07:37:57]

mzb_d800:

hmm... don't think the frontend is starting now, but still restarts! wtf?

[07:38:18]

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[07:38:26]

mzb_d800:

wonder if ${WOMAN} has been pressing buttons (just to make it more confusing)

[07:39:11]

justinh:

mzb_d800: random button pressing cures all ills. every woman knows that

[07:39:26]

mzb_d800:

hmm

[07:39:33]

clever:

just start pushing her buttons and youll find the answer!

[07:40:14]

mzb_d800:

did that yesterday.... doesn't work well at the best of times, but when pregnant .... oh dear!

[07:41:12]

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[07:41:35]

jvs is now known as morgen

[07:42:13]

mzb_d800:

for TunerStatus, how can I determine the tuner that a particular FE is using?

[07:42:46]

mzb_d800:

err... dm (I think)

[07:43:31]

mzb_d800:

nah, play with that after food

[07:51:52]

Shadow__X:

hey clever is there a way to play games over xvnc

[07:58:32]

Shadow__X:

night

[07:59:14]

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[08:01:01]

justinh:

you can play 2d games over vnc just fine so long as they don't rely on fast redraws :P

[08:05:41]

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[08:27:05]

clever:

justinh: i had that pinball game that comes with winxp running under vnc with practicaly no lag

[08:27:17]

clever:

which is insane when you look at how many layers of crap it get to run thru

[08:27:45]

justinh:

not really. it's small

[08:27:59]

clever:

game->winxp->virtualbox->xvnc4->linux->network->linux

[08:28:23]

clever:

it runs worse when i stick a vnc server on native windows and try that

[08:29:13]

clever:

native windows with a win32 vnc server has so much lag its imposible to do anything

[08:29:19]

justinh:

blah blah blah blah

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[08:29:24]

clever:

lol

[08:29:33]

clever:

i allways drive him insane:P

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[08:55:07]

netzapper:

so, I need some raw television capture--with commercials. I couldn't care less what it is, although I'd love a live sporting event. I'm training an algorithm, and I'm having a helluva time finding anything like what I need.

[08:56:07]

netzapper:

I was kinda hoping that somebody here might be willing to share from the wealth of their harddrive.

[08:56:09]

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[08:56:51]

mchou:

netzapper: well, I hate to be negative, but the issue is bandwidth

[08:57:12]

netzapper:

yeah, that's what I was afraid of.

[08:57:45]

kormoc:

talk like that will just get you banned from the channel

[08:59:09]

netzapper:

I recognize it looks like piracy... and I do suppose how one might argue that it "is". So, I do apologize. If you feel research falls under infringing use, I'll be glad to knock it off.

[08:59:34]

kormoc:

It falls under breaking the channel's rules

[09:00:15]

netzapper:

says nothing about rules in the channel topic. Sorry. Won't happen again.

[09:01:20]

netzapper:

I mean, research kinda falls under fair use in my mind... but, I can see how your rules make no distinction.

[09:06:07]

Dibblah:

netzapper: Capture your own. It really doesn't take that long ;)

[09:06:59]

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[09:07:07]

netzapper:

well, I have no capture card and I have no television signal (not even a converter box) nor an antenna. I need some video for a prototype, and feel uncomfortable investing in all that shit if the prototype fails.

[09:07:55]

netzapper:

let me rephrase that: I need some video to test a prototype. The video's just test-set data.

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[09:37:40]

tank-man:

netzapper, I am curious why you would want to write an algorithm to detect commercials if you have no tv, unless someone is paying you but then they can pay for your capture card

[09:39:07]

netzapper:

someone is, in fact, paying me. But, it's a feasibility study... so, nobody (including me) wants to front for a capture card. Mucho cheapness... but, buying a card still requires that I then track down somebody with cable--'cause I really can't imagine getting my clients to get me cable.

[09:39:48]

tank-man:

takes money to make money i guess

[09:40:10]

mchou:

indeed

[09:40:47]

mchou:

netzapper: just ask to company to provide test data

[09:41:05]

mchou:

s/to company/company

[09:41:24]

netzapper:

unfortunately, these silly nontechnical people already view the money they're dropping on a study to be "takes money to make money". I'm not defending them. Just explaining why I was here instead of capturing TV.

[09:41:50]

mchou:

after all, they need to make sure it's "real" and not something you artificially 'massaged'

[09:41:54]

netzapper:

mchou: hahah. Oh man... if you'd been through the same meeting I did Friday, you'd be laughing at that suggestion as well.

[09:42:04]

netzapper:

it was surreal.

[09:42:19]

netzapper:

like a meeting with the cast hired to play "The Board of Directors".

[09:42:40]

mchou:

what mickey mouse client is this?

[09:43:14]

** mchou smells a rat **

[09:43:18]

netzapper:

pretty mickey mouse. But, their money spends just fine, and I'm young and just starting out and haven't had significant work in about three months now.

[09:43:55]

netzapper:

mchou: I thought I did too. I kept waiting for the candid camera to pop out of the bushes.

[09:44:44]

tank-man:

my comment was about you, you have to spend money on tools or training or education if you want to make money

[09:44:50]

mchou:

netzapper: so you saying that question got pooped. What was the client's response?

[09:45:28]

mchou:

umm, popped*

[09:45:49]

netzapper:

tank-man: it's true. And, I'm happy to buy the shit if I have to. I'm trying not to, by hopefully relying on someone for whom raw video is cheap enough to give away for free.

[09:46:12]

mchou:

netzapper: seriously man

[09:46:16]

netzapper:

mchou: well, two of them needed to have the concept of TiVo explained to them at length.

[09:46:35]

mchou:

you shouldnt have to jump thru hoops for this

[09:46:54]

mchou:

wtf??

[09:47:15]

mchou:

whre are these ppl from, timbuktu?

[09:47:27]

mchou:

where*

[09:47:48]

netzapper:

yeah. These people are utterly and completely unqualified to be involved in this product. But, it's irrelevant. Their money spends, and they can articulate their idea clearly enough that I can try to prototype it.

[09:48:06]

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[09:48:09]

netzapper:

well, they'd heard of TiVo... but, they thought it was exactly equivalent to a VCR that you couldn't rent shit for.

[09:48:16]

tank-man:

good luck :)

[09:48:43]

mchou:

netzapper: tell them their business plan is WAY out of date :)

[09:48:47]

netzapper:

I know. I'm really not sure how much I want to get involved with them. But, I need the work.

[09:48:56]

netzapper:

mchou: what's their business plan?

[09:49:17]

mchou:

netzapper: http://www.zilliontv.tv/ :)

[09:49:47]

netzapper:

nope. Try again?

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[09:50:14]

netzapper:

oh, wait, was that a possible source of video?

[09:50:21]

mchou:

lol

[09:50:39]

mchou:

no. not the ones you're looking for

[09:51:14]

mchou:

requires HW

[09:51:18]

mchou:

haha

[09:51:43]

netzapper:

didn't think so. Yeah, that's not these people's business plan, either. Theirs is far, far simpler... and probably unsellable. But, that's not my decision to make.

[09:52:56]

mchou:

netzapper: if they didnt grok value proposition of tivo whatever their business plan is, is failbus.

[09:53:18]

mchou:

failbus. get it?

[09:53:20]

netzapper:

yeah, could be. Not my problem.

[09:54:10]

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[09:54:15]

** netzapper imagines himself as a programmatic Clint Eastwood, in a poncho with a gcc on his belt. He's decent and honest, but doesn't really give a fuck unless he's paid to. **

[09:54:43]

netzapper:

(with clients at least. Not saying I'm that way at the pub.)

[09:56:09]

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[09:58:56]

dubstar04:

i need some advise about analogue cards for capturing vhs. i need to convert some old family vhs tapes to dvd for a birthday present, i bought a wintv usb box but the output is aweful low res and unuseable. someone on here suggested a pvr 250 but i cant seem to find one at a decent price (less than £50) and i will probably only use it once. any one have any ideas?

[09:59:30]

mchou:

pvr 150

[09:59:39]

mchou:

also likely unavailable

[09:59:52]

dubstar04:

what is the res?

[10:00:15]

mchou:

meaning of rez in analog is artificial

[10:00:37]

dubstar04:

there is a shop that sells them in manchester for a low price.

[10:00:57]

mchou:

rez is hardly your problem when it comes to vhs

[10:01:28]

dubstar04:

the pvr 250 has a capture rez of 720 x 5**

[10:01:38]

dubstar04:

does this not matter?

[10:01:54]

mchou:

pvr 150 has that too

[10:02:08]

dubstar04:

s

[10:02:33]

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[10:02:34]

mchou:

it doesnt really matter because vhs is far noisier the 520 or whatever

[10:02:42]

mchou:

s/the/than

[10:03:17]

mchou:

if you're not using svideo for analog there's your problem right there

[10:03:53]

dubstar04:

the wintv box piece of garbage, is quoted as 320 x 240. surely the higher rate of 720 x 5** will look better when played back?

[10:03:59]

mchou:

even crappy bttv cards do a decent enough job via svideo

[10:04:36]

mchou:

which wintv box you refferring to?

[10:05:26]

dubstar04:

this is the impoosible challange. the vhs was filmed on a handycam in 91 and has been stored in someones living room since then.

[10:05:48]

dubstar04:

i bought a wintv usb

[10:05:50]

mchou:

I dont see what's so impossible about it

[10:07:55]

mchou:

wintv usb which version?

[10:08:01]

dubstar04:

the impossible part is that the video looks bad when played straight on to a tv, and the person im doing it for is convinced that once its on dvd it will magically be 'dvd quality'!

[10:08:33]

mchou:

lol

[10:08:38]

dubstar04:

it the wintv usb original verson, its 556 or something.

[10:08:46]

mchou:

well, that is indeed impossible

[10:09:05]

mchou:

wintv usb original version is lameware

[10:09:20]

dubstar04:

i now know this...

[10:09:25]

mchou:

usb2=1600x1200

[10:09:30]

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[10:09:39]

mchou:

plenty of rez for crappy vhs

[10:09:44]

dubstar04:

thats still image?

[10:10:06]

mchou:

yeah, probably interpolated

[10:10:40]

dubstar04:

so you think a pvr 150 will produce a decent vid?

[10:11:51]

mchou:

'decent' is a vague word

[10:12:15]

dubstar04:

'acceptable'?

[10:12:16]

mchou:

but it will definitely be better than wintv-usb v1

[10:12:49]

dubstar04:

good good. ebay here i come.

[10:16:00]

dubstar04:

i order a dvb-s card last week so i could get the hd freesat channels, now im faced with analogue capture and vhs... why oh why.

[10:16:23]

mchou:

quit yer whining

[10:16:49]

dubstar04:

ha ha. i best do some work. cheers for your help.

[10:17:02]

mchou:

if you got a hybrid dvb-s there'd be no problem

[10:17:34]

tank-man:

garbage in garbage out

[10:17:43]

dubstar04:

nope its a hauppauge dvb-s. just sat i think.

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[11:14:33]

mzb_d800:

J-e-f-f-A: Awake? Working on a 2nd "font" for the bigclock, also got "BIGFATCLOCK" on the drawing board ;)

[11:17:53]

mzb_d800:

s/BIGFATWIDE?

[11:26:24]

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[11:37:25]

gbee:

yomamma?

[11:39:18]

laga:

gbee: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1458#comic

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[11:40:54]

gbee:

this can't be good, g++ keeps segfaulting randomly

[11:41:17]

gbee:

laga: heh

[11:45:18]

gbee:

damn, something is really fubar :/

[11:45:31]

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[11:46:01]

gbee:

memtest here I come :(

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[11:47:40]

jduggan:

:|

[11:49:44]

mzb_d800:

I wonder if the random mythfrontend reboots (while idle in menu) are due to memory leak + no swap?

[11:50:05]

mzb_d800:

(running trunk)

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[11:58:17]

Dibblah:

I've asked Avenard if he can make it slightly obvious what patches he's applying to his fork.

[11:58:23]

Dibblah:

Which should be entertaining.

[12:00:07]

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[12:00:16]

BonezAU:

Hi, I am running Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04 Alpha6 (fullly updated as of 5 mins ago), when I try to install MythTV I get the following error. (sorry for pasting too much in the channel). Can anyone help?

[12:00:49]

BonezAU:

I keep getting errors saying that the backend and frontend wont be installed due to broken packages/dependency errors

[12:00:51]

BonezAU:

any help?

[12:06:49]

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[12:28:09]

loki_666_:

hi, im' trying to configure mythweb with lighttpd

[12:28:39]

loki_666_:

my mythweb app is installed in .../htdocs/mythweb

[12:29:19]

loki_666_:

everything is fine if I set the server root to htdocs/mythweb, and i can access the app using http://localhost

[12:29:53]

loki_666_:

now i d'l like to install more webapps, so id like to acces mythweb trough http://localhost/mythweb url

[12:30:40]

loki_666_:

but i'm getting a 404 from lighttpd, i think i should modify the mod_rewrite block, any idea?

[12:32:26]

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[12:38:08]

justinh:

Dibblah: ask him what he's going to call it :-P

[12:40:59]

loki_666_:

would this do the trick url.rewrite-once = (

[12:40:59]

loki_666_:

[12:40:59]

loki_666_:

"^/mythweb/(pl(/.*)?)$" => "/mythweb/mythweb.pl/$1",

[12:40:59]

loki_666_:

"^/mythweb/(.+)$" => "/mythweb/mythweb.php/$1",

[12:40:59]

loki_666_:

"^/mythweb/(.*)$" => "/mythweb/mythweb.php"

[12:40:59]

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[12:41:00]

loki_666_:

)

[12:41:32]

justinh:

OI !

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[12:51:56]

loki_666_:

any help here?

[12:56:25]

loki_666_:

blaireaux

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[12:59:28]

justinh:

badgers?

[12:59:31]

justinh:

heh

[13:00:00]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v j-rod

[13:00:43]

justinh:

or colloquially.. fools. well, using lighttpd & not having a clue what they're doing.. who is really the fool?

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[13:10:33]

mzb_d800:

if I plan to rebuild trunk nightly via cron do I really need a distclean?

[13:12:28]

mzb_d800:

(I have been using a script manually for several months that does the job nicely)

[13:12:52]

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[13:13:05]

justinh:

if you plan to do that, you're more unwise than I thought

[13:13:23]

mzb_d800:

just feel like taking a chance ;)

[13:13:40]

mzb_d800:

I can always rewind and rebuild if it stops working

[13:14:14]

mzb_d800:

even less of an issue if I don't need a distclean

[13:14:35]

mzb_d800:

(I have a "CLEAN" variable in the script)

[13:15:35]

mzb_d800:

I guess if I pay attention to the dev mailing list I should be ok, right?

[13:15:47]

mzb_d800:

eg: db changes, etc

[13:16:18]

justinh:

-commits too

[13:16:27]

mzb_d800:

good point

[13:18:16]

justinh:

I'm not sure the commit rate is sufficient to make a nightly build necessary all the same...

[13:19:45]

clever:

i would use symlinks instead of actualy copying

[13:19:52]

clever:

for the 'install' phase

[13:20:04]

clever:

so its using the binarys directly from the build dir

[13:21:14]

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[13:23:26]

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[13:25:38]

mzb_d800:

clever: meh, too much work

[13:25:51]

clever:

it could be 1 change to the main .pro file

[13:26:02]

clever:

just replace the setting for 'install' with a script

[13:26:43]

mzb_d800:

tbh, I'm not aware of the commit rate, but a nightly build would certainly make life more interesting ;)

[13:27:10]

clever:

my bigest problem with that idea is that i record a show daily at midnight->1am

[13:27:27]

clever:

would need to find a timeslot thats free every night

[13:27:31]

justinh:

your biggest problem is that you're still here

[13:27:46]

clever:

justinh: may i anoy you into running off again?

[13:28:11]

mzb_d800:

I'm thinking that I can set the idle shutdown time in mythwelcome to (say) 60 mins, then ...

[13:28:47]

mzb_d800:

in the script, do a shutdown check and wait until it's ready (in case it's going to record something at 3am, for eg)

[13:28:57]

clever:

if i dont have every filesystem mounted, then mythtranscode/backend will shred the job queue to peices

[13:29:11]

mzb_d800:

(even though I don't need to have mythwelcome running)

[13:29:17]

clever:

1 backend with a SG missing will go thru and fail every transcode job at once

[13:29:26]

clever:

and then no backend can run the job

[13:29:30]

mzb_d800:

lovely

[13:29:43]

clever:

i can easily reset the status to queued in the sql shell

[13:30:06]

clever:

but it seems trivial to patch the backend to perform the same checks as mythtranscode, and skip jobs it knows will fail

[13:30:16]

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[13:30:25]

clever:

and i can see how that would also cause problems when transcoding between storage groups shows up

[13:31:08]

clever:

and because of that, i have to make shure the nfs servers are booted before every other mythtv system

[13:31:23]

clever:

which means automatic shutdown of the nfs servers will cause alot of problems

[13:33:04]

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[13:33:53]

justinh:

never doing anything a sane, rational way can cause lots of problems. boo hoo

[13:34:30]

clever:

how would you do it properly?

[13:35:24]

terse is now known as crankharder

[13:35:39]

mzb_d800:

nfs mount options = hard,intr

[13:35:48]

gbee:

I'm thinking of swapping apache for lighttpd simply because apache can be a greedy bastard and launches far too many processes for a single user mythweb install

[13:35:53]

mzb_d800:

nfs mount options += hard,intr

[13:36:00]

clever:

mzb_d800: hard nfs mounts would just make things worse i think

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[13:36:24]

clever:

when the server does go out all processes will hardlock

[13:36:29]

clever:

(when accessing it)

[13:36:34]

mzb_d800:

:)

[13:36:39]

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[13:36:43]

gbee:

since it seems unlikely that xris or kormoc will agree to go along with my preferred plan of moving mythweb into mythbackend, it seems like the only alternative :(

[13:37:06]

clever:

gbee: apache can be set to use 1 thread

[13:37:19]

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[13:37:23]

clever:

gbee: apache -X

[13:37:29]

clever:

not that proper but it would work

[13:38:36]

gbee:

clever: it can, but the damn thing has become too complicated to configure properly, the configs have bloated and been broken up to the extent that I no longer find small tasks that simple with it

[13:38:50]

clever:

ahh:(

[13:40:07]

gbee:

lets face it, apache is not the right tool for the job, <insert sledgehammer/nut analogy here>

[13:41:31]

jams:

gbee- lighttpd works fairly well for mythweb

[13:41:31]

mzb_d800:

inbuilt webserver sounds like a nice idea

[13:41:44]

jams:

made the switch 2 or 3 years ago

[13:42:16]

gbee:

mzb_d800: well we already have an inbuilt webserver, so it's halfway there

[13:43:01]

mzb_d800:

sounds like half a plan :)

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[13:43:43]

gbee:

of course I'd be thinking about swapping the php for C++ long term and eliminating a ton of duplicate code in the process, but that's really where I think that xris/kormoc would veto the plan ;)

[13:44:40]

mzb_d800:

smaller steps?

[13:45:35]

mzb_d800:

grr.. this rebooting issue is getting to me

[13:46:33]

gbee:

yeah well the first step wouldn't be nearly so dramatic or controversial, so I can actually see that happening ... maybe

[13:54:50]

clever:

gbee: could start with a custom php module

[13:55:15]

clever:

if you give php direct access to libmyth it wouldnt need to duplicate the network api

[13:59:01]

sid3windr:

omg gbee

[13:59:08]

sid3windr:

you can't run a website on c++ !

[13:59:29]

sid3windr:

sorry, I had to witness http://paste-it.net/public/ycd9c0c/ yesterday ;/

[13:59:38]

clever:

i think the core CGI module for cgiirc is c based

[14:00:07]

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[14:22:54]

Cardoe:

any GeForce 8200 users?

[14:22:59]

Cardoe:

gbee: ping

[14:23:22]

Cardoe:

Having an issue where the only thing the frontend displays is the background

[14:24:47]

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[14:24:52]

Cardoe:

looking at the log there's no real reason behind it.

[14:24:57]

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[14:26:26]

Cardoe:

http://rafb.net/p/1hQkwS51.html it's been sitting there like that

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[14:30:02]

sid3windr:

Cardoe: is it after watching tv, or immediately?

[14:30:10]

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[14:30:25]

sid3windr:

ah immediately it seems

[14:30:37]

sid3windr:

dunno – I have it sometimes after watching livetv for a while, the menu still "works" but it's not drawn

[14:30:44]

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[14:30:46]

sid3windr:

I just exit it and my autorestart thingy restarts it =)

[14:30:53]

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[14:31:23]

sid3windr:

thevoke_: \o/

[14:31:42]

Cardoe:

sid3windr: Its just starting the frontend

[14:31:56]

Cardoe:

the menu doesn't work at all

[14:32:43]

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[14:33:00]

gbee:

not even getting to the point of loading the menu, what does -v all show?

[14:34:09]

mzb_d800:

background==mythtv or background==black?

[14:34:29]

mzb_d800:

if the former then try install msttcorefonts

[14:34:51]

mzb_d800:

(or equivalent pkg for distro)

[14:34:53]

gbee:

not a font thing, it's just halting half way through the startup

[14:35:06]

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[14:35:50]

gbee:

don't think it's a driver issue either, but which one are you using?

[14:36:35]

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[14:37:49]

sid3windr:

perhaps strace shows some clue?

[14:39:28]

Cardoe:

gbee: 180.37

[14:39:38]

gbee:

logs first, gdb after than

[14:40:10]

Cardoe:

mzb_d800: MythTV background. I've got the fonts installed.. I just replaced the MB on this box and the video card. It was working fine prior. So it's not a missing fonts issue

[14:40:26]

mzb_d800:

kk

[14:40:49]

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[14:41:07]

gbee:

Cardoe: can only speak for .29 at the moment, after the screwup than was .35 I've been reluctant to make the jump to .37 until it gets wide review – but already people are reporting kernel/userspace signalling issues again

[14:41:30]

Cardoe:

actually .29 is what I'm using

[14:41:38]

Cardoe:

since that's what you said you had

[14:41:44]

Cardoe:

.37 is in my desktop

[14:42:14]

gbee:

ok

[14:42:25]

Cardoe:

gbee: Yeah unfortunately people aren't providing debugging reports to nvidia. I had to fight with Gentoo users for like 4 days to get it.

[14:42:34]

Cardoe:

gbee: Been working with nvidia to try to resolve the issues

[14:43:10]

Cardoe:

http://dpaste.com/15083/

[14:43:17]

Cardoe:

that's the full log of starting up the frontend

[14:43:42]

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[14:44:43]

Cardoe:

now previously I had an LCD panel hooked up in the front

[14:45:00]

Cardoe:

I had to edit the DB to hand disable "LCDEnable"

[14:45:12]

Cardoe:

Because otherwise it wouldn't get past the first few lines

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[14:47:19]

gbee:

weird, symptoms are similar to those seen by people who had problems with the 180.35 driver, gets further in that log but otherwise it doesn't tell us anything useful :/

[14:47:26]

Cardoe:

it seems to request several of those DB variables as well

[14:47:26]

logik:

fyi, nvidia driver 185.13 has been release

[14:47:45]

logik:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1957328

[14:47:53]

logik:

no changelog

[14:48:02]

Cardoe:

yeah I've already asked Aaron for some info

[14:49:10]

logik:

cool thanks

[14:50:10]

Cardoe:

gbee: so it's constantly requesting that upnp URL.. so the frontend is alive

[14:51:45]

gbee:

Cardoe: heh, I was ignoring the upnp stuff

[14:52:07]

Cardoe:

gbee: well I'm just saying. it's alive and not totally dead on a signal

[14:52:22]

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[14:52:23]

gbee:

mythfrontend -d

[14:53:35]

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[14:53:52]

Cardoe:

what's -d do?

[14:54:22]

Cardoe:

unfortunately -h/--help on 0.21 still needs an X server

[14:54:28]

Cardoe:

I'm ssh'ing into the machine right now

[14:54:37]

mzb_d800:

-X

[14:55:12]

gbee:

Cardoe: really? thought I'd fixed that

[14:55:24]

gbee:

-d disables upnp autodisocovery on the frontend

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[15:04:14]

clever:

mzb_d800: if the sshd has a runnign X server i would just ssh into the mythtv user and forcibly set DISPLAY

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[15:09:17]

Jared555:

it has been a while since I have checked on this.... can multiple frontends use one backend tuner simultaniously?

[15:09:56]

wagnerrp:

no

[15:10:04]

wagnerrp:

but multiple frontends can view the same recording

[15:11:05]

wagnerrp:

since all livetv is just a recording

[15:11:06]

jams:

they can even view the same "live-tv" recording, but only one has control of the tuner.

[15:11:10]

high-rez:

wagnerrp: Are you sure about that? I think the answer is actually yes, but only when the tuner supports multiple streams on a single multiplx...

[15:11:15]

wagnerrp:

one person can start watching, and the rest can join in

[15:11:22]

mzb_d800:

without attempting to be pedantic, it is possible to use the same physical tuner but not the same logical tuner (multirec)

[15:11:38]

wagnerrp:

and as high-rez: mentioned, on some digital tuners, you have multirec which makes multiple virtual tuners

[15:11:50]

Jared555:

I am thinking along the lines of a firewire connection to a single cable box

[15:11:55]

mzb_d800:

s/logical/virtual

[15:12:00]

wagnerrp:

i dont know what the procedure is when the primary watcher tunes off the multiplex

[15:12:35]

high-rez:

wagnerrp: the primary can't tune off it if someone else is tuned on it (or a scheduled recording has it).

[15:13:38]

Jared555:

basically right now my only option is to take a distribution amplifier and run wires everywhere off of the cable box

[15:13:57]

high-rez:

E.g. if I tune to 5.1 in my front room, and in my computer room I tune to 5.2 (two channels on the same atsc multiplex), if I go back into the front room I only get the option of tuning to 5.1 or 5.2 – nothing else (unless I have multiple turns, which I do, but not multiple ATSC tuners).

[15:13:58]

Jared555:

well I can do it without the distribution amp but I don't have enough y adapters

[15:14:41]

high-rez:

That said, I don't think it works at all that way for firewire. :)

[15:14:52]

wagnerrp:

for firewire no

[15:14:59]

wagnerrp:

but one person can start watching

[15:15:04]

wagnerrp:

and the rest can pick up the recording

[15:15:48]

high-rez:

Yeah, I wsh

[15:16:00]

high-rez:

I wish they would be in sync though. :(

[15:16:38]

high-rez:

E.g. if I want to have a football game playing throughout the house – each instance will be a little out of sync with every other instance – and the sound gets obnoxious.

[15:16:40]

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[15:17:26]

wagnerrp:

then stream with vlc

[15:17:47]

wagnerrp:

although i dont even know if you can sync that well enough

[15:18:19]

Jared555:

high-rez, that ticks me off just on the cable box.... even it is about 5 seconds off from the other tv even with an analog signal

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[15:20:42]

Jared555:

how good is the mythtv control of motorola cable boxes over firewire?

[15:22:30]

mzb_d800:

you can sync audio around network, but video is impossible at this stage afaik ... better stick with hard-wiring for that ;)

[15:24:44]

Jared555:

yeah, i have 5 or so video distribution amplifiers (one has composite, l/r audio, component, l/r audio (or sync), digital audio, and svideo all in one) that I got from circuit city for $5

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[15:40:18]

gbee:

Cardoe: any luck?

[15:40:53]

Gumby:

<Jared555> it has been a while since I have checked on this.... can multiple frontends use one backend tuner simultaniously?

[15:41:08]

Gumby:

Jared555, it can if the tuner does multirec (satellite tuner)

[15:41:12]

gbee:

only marked difference is that I'm running trunk with my 8200, but that would imply that the motherboard/IGP is somehow to blame and I'm not sure that is the case

[15:41:27]

Cardoe:

gbee: prodding the wife to test it

[15:41:37]

Gumby:

oops, that was answered already

[15:41:52]

gbee:

Gumby: ATSC/DVB-T/DVB-S/DVB-C

[15:43:20]

gbee:

possibly ISDB-T too, but I'm not aware of any tuners or linux support for that little used standard

[15:43:29]

Gumby:

dvb-s2

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[15:44:31]

gbee:

my point was that multirec is available with all those standards and tuners, it's not limited to DVB-S(2)

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[15:51:53]

high-rez:

I have to say, where I live, multirec is pretty much useless on ATSC. All of the secondary channels are like weather channels.

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[15:55:01]

davidm:

multirec can still come in handy when there are back-to-back recordings on the same channel so there can be a little bit of overlap between the end of the first recording and beginning of the second

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[15:59:15]

GreyFoxx:

I didn't think multirec had anything to do with that

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[16:01:38]

AndyCap:

GreyFoxx: well, it's nice if mythtv misses the split.

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[16:25:31]

gbee:

GreyFoxx: multirec does mean that back to back recordings don't have to be on the same physical tuner allowing padding to be kept on both recordings

[16:29:18]

gbee:

wonder when janneg is going to do the ffmpeg resync, looking forward to that

[16:29:25]

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[16:29:57]

gbee:

might even be sufficient reason to move my production machine to trunk

[16:31:58]

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[16:32:04]

iamlindoro_:

the hwaccel stuff isn't finished yet, think he's waiting for that and h.264 timestamp fixes

[16:38:58]

gbee:

:/

[16:43:38]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: and the multithreaded decoding? (fingers crossed)

[16:44:15]

perilousapricot:

hey, is it just me or is the 'adjust screen size' option in myth broken?

[16:45:16]

sphery:

perilousapricot: -fixes or trunk?

[16:45:22]

perilousapricot:

sphery, trunk

[16:45:31]

perilousapricot:

I'm using the weekly builds from mythbuntu

[16:45:32]

sphery:

don't know, then

[16:45:40]

shadash:

sweet

[16:45:49]

sphery:

but if you don't want broken, -fixes works :)

[16:46:05]

perilousapricot:

well, I don't watch that much TV, I don't care about it being broken or not

[16:46:15]

perilousapricot:

I did, however, want to file a bug if it wasn't a known issue

[16:46:40]

sphery:

much preferred would be filing a patch

[16:47:25]

perilousapricot:

I'll try to set up the build chain

[16:47:33]

perilousapricot:

I am, however, many fails at getting those to work sometimes

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[17:11:04]

_abbenormal:

hey guys in myth on selecting dvb cards it has im getting adapter 0 frontend 0 but when i select the 2nd card or device it says adapter 1 frontend 0 thought it would be frontend 1

[17:13:20]

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[17:15:02]

jackson__:

how many virtual adapters did you create per physical one?

[17:16:12]

jackson__:

In mythtv-setup, under Capture Cards, select a card, then select Recording Options, what is 'Max recordings' set at?

[17:17:12]

jackson__:

for each 'max recordings' is a virtual adapter. It's how mythtv does concurent recordings.

[17:18:48]

iamlindoro_:

max recordings has nothing to do with the adapter/frontend #

[17:18:48]

_abbenormal:

1 each

[17:18:52]

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[17:19:09]

jackson__:

well, tuners.

[17:19:40]

iamlindoro_:

jackson__: Max recordings is a function of multirec-- he's adding a second physical device, which is to say that max recordings has nothing to do with it

[17:20:00]

_abbenormal:

everything is set to only allow 1 recording at a time per each card

[17:20:25]

iamlindoro_:

_abbenormal: the enumeration is based on the device names, ie /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0 is the first dvb device created with a DVB driver

[17:20:42]

iamlindoro_:

the second physical DVB device would be /dev/dvb/adapter1/frontend0

[17:20:50]

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[17:20:56]

iamlindoro_:

the third /dev/dvb/adapter2/frontend0, etc.

[17:21:11]

iamlindoro_:

frontend is incremented when there is more than one physical tuner on a physical card

[17:21:24]

jackson__:

ahh, thanks for the clarification

[17:21:36]

sid3windr:

do cards exist with 2 tuners?

[17:21:37]

iamlindoro_:

so a dual tuner DVB device would have /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0 and /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend1

[17:21:40]

iamlindoro_:

jackson__: :)

[17:21:44]

iamlindoro_:

sid3windr: Sure

[17:21:44]

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[17:21:51]

sid3windr:

do they share the ci?

[17:22:07]

_abbenormal:

ok not sure i get it i have 2 different dvb devices so they should have different frontends to run each device

[17:22:11]

sid3windr:

guess not ;/

[17:22:14]

iamlindoro_:

sid3windr: I dunno if there are any DVB cards with CI and dual tuner, and don't know the answer to that if there are

[17:22:24]

sid3windr:

okay :)

[17:22:30]

sid3windr:

I'll do some looking up by the time I may need it ;)

[17:22:31]

_abbenormal:

each have only one tuner per device

[17:22:47]

iamlindoro_:

_abbenormal: right, so you hava adapter 0 frontend 0 and adapter 1 frontend 0

[17:22:49]

_abbenormal:

let me paste the info

[17:22:55]

iamlindoro_:

which is correct

[17:22:57]

_abbenormal:

yes

[17:23:14]

_abbenormal:

thats what myth is saying

[17:23:25]

iamlindoro_:

That's because that's what your device tree is saying too :)

[17:23:26]

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[17:23:27]

iamlindoro_:

it's correct

[17:23:47]

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[17:24:03]

iamlindoro_:

/dev/dvb/adapter0 is the first physical device. /dev/dev/adapter1 is the second physical device. The first tuner on each physical device is frontend0

[17:24:30]

iamlindoro_:

if you descend into each of those directories, you will find a frontend0 in each

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[17:26:43]

_abbenormal:

ok understand that

[17:27:27]

gbee:

some dual tuner cards appear as two different adapters rather than two frontends on a single adapter

[17:27:32]

Led-Hed:

is Xine capable of rewinding playback? All I can find for key binds are "SpeedSlower" and "SeekRelative"

[17:27:45]

gbee:

Led-Hed: ask in #xine

[17:27:46]

_abbenormal:

each adapter use its own frontend as 0 so if the device its self had 2 tuner then it would be adapter 1 frontend 0 and frontend 1 for that adapter

[17:27:54]

gbee:

nowt to do with myth :)

[17:28:06]

iamlindoro_:

_abbenormal: in theory, although as gbee mentions, there are exceptions-- but yeah, generally

[17:28:12]

Led-Hed:

gbee, already have, no response

[17:28:18]

_abbenormal:

cool

[17:28:45]

_abbenormal:

now i know thank gbee and iamlindoro_

[17:28:57]

iamlindoro_:

you are welcome

[17:29:03]

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[18:05:39]

tank-man:

Led-Hed, left or right arrow keys should do it

[18:05:55]

tank-man:

or ctrl+left or ctrl+right arrowkey

[18:06:06]

Led-Hed:

tank-man, its not quite that simple

[18:06:39]

Led-Hed:

I need to bind them to lirc

[18:06:56]

tank-man:

where's the hard part?

[18:06:58]

tank-man:

:)

[18:07:28]

Led-Hed:

what are the config names for Rewind and FastForward

[18:07:53]

tank-man:

i don't know off the top of my head

[18:08:13]

tank-man:

i can try doing an internet search for you if you don't know how

[18:08:42]

Led-Hed:

I have searched. Havent come up with much other then "SpeedSlower"

[18:08:44]

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[18:09:17]

tank-man:

"SeekRelative+5"

[18:09:27]

tank-man:

replace 5 with what you want

[18:09:40]

tank-man:

or -5

[18:09:51]

Led-Hed:

that jumps 5, I want it to rewind

[18:10:10]

tank-man:

so jumping back 5 seconds is no good?

[18:10:40]

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[18:10:57]

Led-Hed:

it goes backwards, but its not the same as rewinding.

[18:11:01]

gizmobay:

I'm running mythbuntu 0.21 with the vdpau patches. I was watching an HD OTA show last night and there was a line at the top even though I had overscan set. Without doing a thing I wake up this morning and go to the same channel and no line at the top

[18:11:03]

tank-man:

i see

[18:11:18]

Led-Hed:

I can also jump to a percentage in the stream, but thats not rewinding

[18:11:23]

gizmobay:

Can overscan vary per program?

[18:13:01]

Led-Hed:

gizmobay, I get the same thing from time to time.

[18:13:07]

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[18:14:44]

gizmobay:

thanks led-hed, I guess it's just the way it goes sometimes

[18:15:57]

Led-Hed:

gizmobay, I just adjusted my TV Screen Dimensions.

[18:15:57]

iamlindoro_:

not to mention we don't provide any support for unofficial, unappreciated backports here

[18:18:18]

Josh_Borke:

gief more 0.22 then! ;-)

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[18:29:56]

perilousapricot:

well, if I can get it to work, I'm going to write a script to change the virtual screen size so that it fits on my screen since neither my TV nor my nvidia driver provide for overscan

[18:30:37]

wagnerrp:

gizmobay: overscan is just the concept that the broadcaster provides video outside the normal viewable area

[18:30:46]

wagnerrp:

some broadcasters may overscan more or less than others

[18:30:55]

wagnerrp:

so yes, overscan can vary from recording to recording

[18:33:25]

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[18:36:54]

|jonas|:

When will the S2API support be commited, according to http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5882 it should be done in the next days and that was 3 weeks ago

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iamlindoro_:

next = following... which means from now until the sun is a cold, blackened cinder

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[18:42:21]

iamlindoro_:

Since the S2API patches won't be committed as they are, that's more precisely put as when the person responsible for them has the time and energy to make them meet his standards

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[19:03:22]

|jonas|:

2009-03–16 20:01:05.234 XMLTVFindGrabbers: We timed out waiting

[19:03:51]

|jonas|:

Using the latest code from trunk

[19:04:07]

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[19:04:45]

|jonas|:

Running tv_find_grabbers baseline from the command line goes fine

[19:05:27]

Led-Hed:

anyone here using VLC in place of the Internal player or Xine?

[19:07:25]

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[19:15:31]

gbee:

|jonas|: remove a few of the grabbers you are not using

[19:16:39]

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[19:17:29]

|jonas|:

I only got /usr /bin/tv_grab_no_gfeed|Norway (beta) and /usr/bin/X11/tv_grab_no_gfeed|Norway (beta) thats what tv_find_grabbers finds

[19:17:43]

iamlindoro_:

jpabq / abqjp: So I'm going to jump back in the ffmpeg-devel blu ray fray and offer to buy them some media if they go forward with working on support (and link the code to demux DTS-HD MA again to see if someone decides to patch the DTS demuxer)

[19:18:00]

|jonas|:

What's it doing in /usr/bin/X11

[19:21:08]

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[19:25:05]

|jonas|:

Thiere must be a bug in the latest revison on trunk. Any chance I can downgrade without losing my database?

[19:26:21]

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[19:28:18]

sphery:

|jonas|: nope... can't go back in versions.

[19:28:34]

sphery:

|jonas|: since you're using trunk, just fix the bug and then you're set :)

[19:28:50]

|jonas|:

Thats great. Just fix it yeah.

[19:29:31]

Sulx:

|jonas|: well...why else you would be using trunk? =)

[19:29:37]

iamlindoro_:

hopefully you're not using trunk just for fancy new features?

[19:29:41]

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[19:29:46]

iamlindoro_:

trunk is for working on myth, not for shiny shinies

[19:29:59]

|jonas|:

To get s2api support

[19:30:06]

dustybin:

check out new logo: http://www.thinkdebian.org/

[19:30:30]

iamlindoro_:

Then you're using it for the wrong reason... trunk is not stable, and if there's something you don't like/find broken, it's up to you to fix it

[19:30:41]

iamlindoro_:

or, I suppose, you could pay someone to fix it for you

[19:34:08]

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[19:34:14]

|jonas|:

Does 0.21-fixes have s2api support?

[19:34:24]

iamlindoro_:

no

[19:35:20]

|jonas|:

Is there are patch available?

[19:35:28]

iamlindoro_:

for .21? Nope

[19:36:04]

Shadow__X:

iamlindoro, want to write one for him just to help out

[19:36:05]

Shadow__X:

:)

[19:36:10]

iamlindoro_:

nope

[19:36:27]

|jonas|:

Then I'm either stuck with 0.21 with multiproto patch or trunk with s2api to get my card working.

[19:36:56]

iamlindoro_:

Right, |jonas|

[19:37:06]

Shadow__X:

iamlindoro, how about

[19:37:07]

Shadow__X:

now

[19:37:09]

Shadow__X:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/322943500_0285fa4049.jpg?v=0

[19:37:40]

|jonas|:

So whats the best choice?

[19:37:45]

iamlindoro_:

But that doesn't change the fact that trunk is only for development, and should not be expected to work without work on your part... I can think of at least five things I personally have broken with patches to trunk this month

[19:38:06]

iamlindoro_:

that is to say, parts of trunk are broken thanks to me, and I'm proud of it :)

[19:38:16]

|jonas|:

haha

[19:38:44]

iamlindoro_:

The "best" choice is whatever works for you-- but if you use trunk, you need to understand that there's no support provided for it, and you will be expected to fix things yourself if you find them

[19:39:10]

iamlindoro_:

If .21 with multiproto patches works for you, I would recommend that over going with trunk, but that's just my opinion

[19:39:17]

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[19:40:50]

Shadow__X:

is there a patch for .21 with vdpau

[19:41:12]

gbee:

"Thiere must be a bug in the latest revison on trunk." < Nope, works just fine here, more likely a bug with xmltv

[19:41:38]

gbee:

or you are using Nvidia drivers 180.35 or 180.37

[19:42:22]

|jonas|:

I never changed xmltv, I upgraded drivers and mythtv.

[19:42:53]

|jonas|:

I have been using version 0.5.54 since I reinstalled this distro.

[19:43:07]

|jonas|:

Let me check

[19:43:12]

iamlindoro_:

Shadow__X: Yes, although that is a topic of scorn, generally speaking (since the guy who backported it decides what parts he wants to apply, is applying and distributing it with what should be a stable version of mythTV, and is otherwise uninterested in how bad an idea it is and how much trouble it causes)

[19:43:32]

iamlindoro_:

Shadow__X: So if you went that route, he would and should be your only source of support for it

[19:43:32]

Shadow__X:

right

[19:43:41]

Shadow__X:

just asking

[19:43:48]

iamlindoro_:

just answering :)

[19:44:06]

Shadow__X:

sounds like either do trunk and work through issues or wait for an update for it

[19:44:14]

Shadow__X:

so as not to break normal support

[19:44:18]

iamlindoro_:

It's made a lot worse by the dozen-odd other patches he decides to arbitrarily apply, so it's more a fork than anything at this point

[19:44:22]

Shadow__X:

and i appreciate the answer iamlindoro

[19:44:30]

Shadow__X:

right

[19:44:39]

Shadow__X:

esp if he has control over it all

[19:45:35]

|jonas|:

Think I'm using a beta driver 180.35. Where do I actually see that?

[19:45:36]

iamlindoro_:

There are two plugins in trunk that are under serious-ish renovation, but I would put trunk backend stability against anything that guy puts out

[19:45:50]

iamlindoro_:

|jonas|: If that's the revision you are using, gbeee has hit the nail on the head

[19:45:59]

iamlindoro_:

and in /var/log/Xorg.0.log, most likely

[19:46:13]

iamlindoro_:

grep "180." /var/log/Xorg.0.log

[19:46:34]

|jonas|:

Yeah its 180.35

[19:46:54]

iamlindoro_:

need to upgrade or downgrade, that revision is horribly broken in a way that almost certainly is causing your issue

[19:47:02]

iamlindoro_:

good call, gbee

[19:47:05]

|jonas|:

What does the nvidia driver has do with xmltv...

[19:47:20]

Shadow__X:

if the higher ups say its the issue

[19:47:25]

Shadow__X:

do not question

[19:47:43]

iamlindoro_:

That driver breaks sigint

[19:48:02]

|jonas|:

WHat driver should I downgrade to?

[19:48:07]

|jonas|:

version

[19:48:23]

iamlindoro_:

180.29, although 180.37 should be fine too AFAIK

[19:48:33]

iamlindoro_:

or whatever the latest post-180.35 is

[19:48:37]

|jonas|:

I will try it.

[19:48:45]

|jonas|:

Thanks

[19:48:49]

iamlindoro_:

np

[19:49:01]

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[19:49:40]

iamlindoro_:

http://bugs.gentoo.org/260441

[19:49:41]

iamlindoro_:

doink

[19:50:06]

Shadow__X:

:)

[19:52:03]

perilousapricot:

this is a bit off-topic (but not really..) if I'm wanting to programatically change the virtual desktop size, would I need to go through the RandR extension?

[19:57:02]

sphery:

because that's the way X is designed to work?

[19:57:08]

sphery:

how else would you do it?

[19:57:52]

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[20:02:33]

perilousapricot:

sphery, well, I mean, i didn't know if that was the extension. I'm failing at even finding documentation for the API, which is disheartening

[20:02:49]

Shadow__X:

to find out what drive i am using do i do the same as above and view the /var/log/Xorg

[20:06:32]

sphery:

perilousapricot: Oh, I read a "why" into that question... Anyway, yeah, that's the (current) approved solution. There's a command-line tool, xrandr, that you may be able to use (i.e. for scripts).

[20:06:38]

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[20:07:32]

perilousapricot:

sphery, hmm, I'll try that. if I can use a virtual desktop to get around this overscan BS, I'll be the happiest person ever

[20:07:57]

iamlindoro_:

I'll be quite happy when some talented person gets the fancy refresh stuff built into myth

[20:08:12]

perilousapricot:

like ogl vblanking?

[20:08:18]

iamlindoro_:

no

[20:08:24]

iamlindoro_:

nothing like that, actually :)

[20:08:51]

iamlindoro_:

matching refresh rates dynamically in whole-number multiples of framerate, on the fly

[20:09:07]

perilousapricot:

they can do that?

[20:09:25]

iamlindoro_:

yes

[20:09:30]

perilousapricot:

that's sweet

[20:09:31]

gbee:

iamlindoro_: one or two people reporting similar issues with 180.37, but it should work a little better than 180.35

[20:09:34]

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[20:10:09]

sphery:

perilousapricot: when you say, "virtual desktop size," are you sure you're talking about X display size and not a window-manager thing? If not, I may have led you astray...

[20:10:34]

gbee:

|jonas|: the nvidia driver basically breaks kernel/userpace communication in ways that most people wouldn't think possible, but it completely breaks the signalling/timers used in QT and all QT based applications

[20:11:10]

clever:

gbee: how does it screw with QTimer's?

[20:11:12]

perilousapricot:

sphery, yeah, I basically, want to somehow set my virtual screen size to be less than the physical screen size and then position/size it so that it fits onto the usuable part of my TV

[20:11:37]

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[20:11:49]

justinh:

time to ditch the CRT & get a flat panel that can do 1:1 pixel mapping

[20:11:53]

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[20:11:57]

perilousapricot:

nvidia decided to remove their overscan support from the 180xx drivers, and my TV doesn't have an option for it, so I'm stuck with shifting the virtual screen (if I can do it)

[20:12:05]

perilousapricot:

justinh, yeah, that would be nice

[20:12:09]

gbee:

clever: not a kernel dev, nor do I work for Nvidia and considering it's a closed source driver ... you'll have to ask them how they screwed things up so badly

[20:12:20]

clever:

gbee: ah:S

[20:12:25]

perilousapricot:

justinh, I should troll on craigslist and try to pick up a TV from someone who needs the money

[20:12:27]

justinh:

you'll have a hell of a job making X fit the edges of your TV

[20:12:38]

clever:

ive read the whole linux kernel driver book but id need to examine the actual problem to figure it out

[20:12:42]

iamlindoro_:

"How did they miss that" is a much better question

[20:12:52]

perilousapricot:

justinh, I was planning on using myth's screen size thing to get the viewable dimensions

[20:13:10]

justinh:

with my first frontend I wasted _days_ trying to get X positioned properly

[20:13:29]

clever:

i never even bothered with the fine tuning

[20:13:51]

clever:

just poked the addjustment in nvidia-settings a bit so it wouldnt cut anything off

[20:14:10]

perilousapricot:

justinh, well, I don't have the option of buying a new TV, and I'm not looking for it being perfect, but right now, theree's 100px on the sides and 60px on topi and bottom I'm missing

[20:14:14]

justinh:

if only the tv encoder registers were available outside the driver

[20:14:16]

perilousapricot:

clever, unfortunately, they took that out :(

[20:14:28]

clever:

perilousapricot: the overscan one?

[20:14:30]

perilousapricot:

yeah

[20:14:34]

clever:

why! :P

[20:14:38]

perilousapricot:

I don't know

[20:14:41]

perilousapricot:

and the bizarre thing is

[20:14:47]

perilousapricot:

it works fine with the vesa driver

[20:15:04]

justinh:

no doubt

[20:15:19]

justinh:

but the vesa driver is crap for video playback

[20:15:22]

perilousapricot:

yeah

[20:15:25]

justinh:

and everything else

[20:15:30]

perilousapricot:

the whole point of me upgrading the video card was to use vdpau

[20:15:31]

clever:

last i tried, it didnt even handle Xv

[20:15:35]

gbee:

Nvidia assume that you'll always want overscan when using TV-out, so by default it overscans ... stupid really

[20:15:58]

justinh:

they're getting as bad as ATI used to be, so it would appear ;-)

[20:16:05]

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[20:16:17]

iamlindoro_:

It's not your fault you don't know what you need

[20:16:21]

iamlindoro_:

er their fault

[20:16:22]

iamlindoro_:

;)

[20:16:25]

perilousapricot:

aha

[20:16:32]

Shadow__X:

justinh, didnt you want competition in the bad driver market

[20:16:33]

perilousapricot:

I guess that's what we get for being complacent

[20:16:37]

Shadow__X:

no one likes monopolies

[20:16:47]

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[20:16:47]

sphery:

"< clever> ive read the whole linux kernel driver book but id need to examine the actual problem to figure it out" --wouldn't it be nice to live in clever's world where the source code to proprietary drivers is freely available?

[20:17:02]

Shadow__X:

lol

[20:17:13]

gbee:

and their overscan adjustment has always been a joke really, you could adjust the amount of overscan (roughly) but not the position of the image, so you'd likely end up with an image of the right size but an off-center image

[20:17:13]

clever:

sphery: yeah its harder to work with the closed source blob, but i could still make an educated guess

[20:17:16]

justinh:

well, at least being able to rely on one manufacturer to get it right most of the time.. that was nice

[20:17:28]

sphery:

clever: what's the point, since you can't fix it?

[20:17:37]

justinh:

now all the balls are back up in the air IMHO

[20:17:48]

clever:

sphery: i could atleast understand why its doing it

[20:17:51]

gbee:

ATi's control app/driver does the whole overscan/alignment stuff for TV-Out so much better

[20:17:52]

sphery:

oh, wait, I forgot who I was talking to... Points are not a prerequisite...

[20:17:57]

justinh:

Intel drivers give you a shedload of control but it's messy

[20:17:59]

clever:

and how badly it may screw up everything else

[20:18:11]

sphery:

clever: or you could just upgrade to a fixed version

[20:18:19]

justinh:

gbee: which is nice if you have hardware that happens to be supported at the time

[20:18:25]

clever:

ah, they allready fixed that timer thing?

[20:18:25]

iamlindoro_:

sphery: But really, who is interested in results?

[20:18:25]

Shadow__X:

justinh, how do you control intel drivers

[20:18:34]

sphery:

heh

[20:18:35]

justinh:

Shadow__X: xrandr. very icky

[20:18:46]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[20:19:04]

justinh:

they're limited to changing registers on mode changes

[20:19:21]

justinh:

so even if somebody wrote a nice GUI with sliders etc...

[20:19:32]

justinh:

that might change sometime

[20:19:55]

justinh:

it's annoying, cos all they're doing is poking numbers into registers damnit

[20:20:04]

Shadow__X:

lol

[20:20:10]

perilousapricot:

it would be neigh impossible, but it'd be sweet if someone could do that ndis (or whatever) thing to wedge the windows driver into X

[20:20:45]

iamlindoro_:

Hmm... GreyFoxx, (and maybe gbee), the HDDVD/Bluray combo LGs (with flashable firmware) are right at the $100 mark now

[20:20:46]

justinh:

the windows drivers allow immense control compared to the linux ones, so we know what's possible

[20:20:53]

perilousapricot:

like how they use network drivers under linux

[20:21:07]

sphery:

ndis is a windows "Network Driver Interface Specification"--not too useful for X

[20:21:16]

Shadow__X:

iamlindoro, whats the big deal with having the flashable firmware

[20:21:49]

perilousapricot:

sphery, well, right, but they managed to wedge closed source windows drivers into linux, which is what I was getting at

[20:22:07]

iamlindoro_:

Shadow__X: Being able to flash a hacked firmware onto it allowing one to read the Volume ID of a disk and remove AACS encryption

[20:22:17]

Shadow__X:

aah

[20:22:24]

sphery:

not that we support that kind of thing, though

[20:22:28]

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[20:22:30]

Shadow__X:

;)

[20:22:35]

iamlindoro_:

Which gets you halfway there for Blu ray and All the way there for HD-DVD

[20:22:38]

justinh:

I think the real problem isn't really that all they need to do is poke at registers.. it's prolly more about how to get the data into said registers in the 1st place

[20:23:21]

sphery:

Data is highly overrated... I've started some data-collection to prove my theory.

[20:23:21]

justinh:

like, if the tv encoder registers were at a memory location on the bus... easy peasy to snoop on it & figgle it all out

[20:24:04]

thebishop:

is anyone working on integrating streaming web content?

[20:24:08]

perilousapricot:

justinh, I guess there's not a way to stick a debugger with some breakpoints in the windows driver?

[20:24:20]

perilousapricot:

(as someone really naiive)

[20:24:38]

justinh:

perilousapricot: I'd assume that if it was easy somebody would already have done it

[20:24:45]

perilousapricot:

iamlindoro_, is BD+ broken?

[20:24:59]

justinh:

thebishop: see mythtube. somewhat abandoned

[20:25:26]

justinh:

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