| Monday, March 2nd, 2009, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:20] | hachi (hachi!i=hachi@shego.kuiki.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [00:00:38] | nemiroal: | Kazan: lost too much HW over the years due to dirty power. |
| [00:00:52] | clever (clever!n=clever@mctnnbsa28w-142167120086.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [00:01:22] | Kazan: | gotcha |
| [00:01:46] | nemiroal: | Kazan: I think a lot of Myth distro are switching to xfs by default for the mythtv partition |
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| [00:02:57] | Kazan: | back.. fsck didnt give me a frag % |
| [00:03:08] | ** Kazan isn't using a premade myth distro ** | |
| [00:03:13] | ** Kazan is using stock fedora's and compiling his own ** | |
| [00:03:26] | Kazan: | had to -f :P |
| [00:03:28] | Kazan: | forcing a check |
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| [00:04:24] | Kazan: | bah... journaling filesystems won't give that info even with a forced check this says |
| [00:04:49] | Sedorox: | anyone know how I can remove a frontend configuration from the DB? |
| [00:04:50] | hachi: | destroy the journal :D |
| [00:05:27] | Kazan: | hmm... no :P |
| [00:09:07] | nemiroal: | Kazan: when you see the high CPU load.. is it io bound cpu usage? |
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| [00:10:33] | Kazan: | hmm.. not really sure |
| [00:11:08] | nemiroal: | Kazan: what do you use to see cpu usage? top, ktop? |
| [00:11:12] | Kazan: | top |
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| [00:11:48] | nemiroal: | Kazan: if it is i/o bound it will show up is % wa. |
| [00:11:52] | perlmonkey: | my mythtv has stopped working :-/ if I hit Watch TV it just returns to the menu |
| [00:11:56] | clever: | damnit |
| [00:12:05] | clever: | ive lost sound on every frontend at once |
| [00:14:24] | clever: | looks like 2 problems |
| [00:14:33] | nemiroal: | perlmonkey: check your myth log file.. also.. what is the size of the log file? |
| [00:14:38] | clever: | the main frontend got its sound drivers loaded backwards and was suing the wrong card |
| [00:14:44] | clever: | ls: cannot access /dev/snd/: No such file or directory |
| [00:14:46] | perlmonkey: | nemiroal: will check |
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| [00:15:56] | perlmonkey: | nemiroal: backendlog = 912k frontend log = 524k |
| [00:17:07] | perlmonkey: | Table '/mythconverg/recorded' is marked as crash and last (automatic?) repair failed. |
| [00:17:25] | nemiroal: | how often do people run the optimize_mythdb.pl script? I have ~ 600 channels and every once in a while... mythfilldatabase brings the system to its knees.. io bound.. doing the optimize helps. |
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| [00:17:55] | hachi: | okay, christ.... if I unset DISPLAY and then try to start my slave backend |
| [00:18:02] | hachi: | it can't connect to the database |
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| [00:18:14] | hachi: | if DISPLAY is set, then it works fine |
| [00:18:19] | clever: | hachi: your mythbackend is clinicaly insane |
| [00:20:01] | nemiroal: | perlmonkey: I would do a tail on both of your files and see if anything looks out of place. btw, is your backend on the same machine as the front end? |
| [00:20:07] | perlmonkey: | how do I fix my crash table? could that be stopping mythtv Watch tv? |
| [00:20:24] | perlmonkey: | nemiroal: Table '/mythconverg/recorded' is marked as crash and last (automatic?) repair failed. |
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| [00:20:36] | perlmonkey: | nemiroal: it is ya |
| [00:20:36] | nemiroal: | perlmonkey: have your tried that optimize script? |
| [00:20:46] | perlmonkey: | no will give it a try now |
| [00:20:57] | hachi: | no wait |
| [00:21:02] | hachi: | that's not the correlation |
| [00:21:05] | hachi: | it's something else instead |
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| [00:22:11] | perlmonkey: | nemiroal: thanks a million! it fixed it |
| [00:22:18] | ** perlmonkey makes a note in his diary ** | |
| [00:22:54] | nemiroal: | perlmonkey: every once in a while I get lucky. good news. |
| [00:23:26] | perlmonkey: | :D |
| [00:23:34] | Kazan: | the question is.. how the fuck do you defrag an ext3 partition in the event that it needs it |
| [00:23:53] | Kazan: | the arrogant voices of ext3 NEVER needs defragged are the only sound i can hear |
| [00:24:33] | clever: | Kazan: when you cp a file, it has to alocate new blocks for the copy |
| [00:24:44] | nemiroal: | Kazan: I assume you already tried. shutdown -F -r now |
| [00:24:48] | clever: | those new blocks may be in a better alocation |
| [00:25:00] | clever: | using 'filefrag' on the original/new will show which is better |
| [00:25:04] | Kazan: | nemiroal: it's not my boot fs |
| [00:25:13] | clever: | mv to replace the original with the new |
| [00:25:29] | Kazan: | think i found a program :D |
| [00:26:01] | nemiroal: | Kazan: how do you mount your partion in /etc/fstab? |
| [00:26:38] | nemiroal: | Kazan: wait you said LVM.. oh no.. that one is out of my league. |
| [00:28:03] | clever: | ive also found ways to defrag lvm |
| [00:28:26] | Kazan: | it's ext3 on lvm not lvm on ext3 :P |
| [00:28:31] | Kazan: | so the ext3 thinks it's one disk |
| [00:28:47] | clever: | my problem is that i did insane ammounts of lvresize and pvmove |
| [00:28:56] | clever: | so my logical volume was fragmented to hell |
| [00:30:12] | Kazan: | ah.. i've only ever pvextended |
| [00:30:30] | Kazan: | 12% non-contiguous |
| [00:30:39] | Kazan: | fsck just finished |
| [00:30:51] | clever: | if you read /etc/lvm/backup/VGNAME |
| [00:31:00] | clever: | you can figure out the exact block layout in the lvm layer |
| [00:31:12] | clever: | logical_volumes { |
| [00:31:14] | clever: | mainlv { |
| [00:31:15] | clever: | segment_count = 11 |
| [00:31:32] | clever: | 11 fragments on that logical volume |
| [00:31:40] | nemiroal: | Kazan: 12% sounds pretty good to me. wonder what it was before. |
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| [00:31:58] | clever: | P4 { |
| [00:32:00] | clever: | segment_count = 18 |
| [00:32:09] | clever: | that one is worse, but smaller overall |
| [00:32:46] | Kazan: | 3 pvs, 3 lvs |
| [00:32:55] | clever: | pvmove is a relatively risk free command, and with trial&error i figured out how to move chunks of a fragment so they land in the right place |
| [00:33:08] | clever: | so i can put my LV's back together like a giant 500gig puzzle |
| [00:33:17] | Kazan: | im just going to delete a bunch of old files and let the fragmentation work itself out |
| [00:33:31] | clever: | alias ffcmd='find -mount -type f -print0|xargs -0 filefrag |grep per|sort -nk2 -t:|tail' |
| [00:33:42] | Kazan: | my LV is 233.754 GB + 232.883 GB + 465.758 GB |
| [00:33:45] | clever: | run that in a root shell, and then run 'ffcmd' in a directory with alot of files |
| [00:33:57] | clever: | youll get the stats for the top 10 fragmented files |
| [00:34:01] | clever: | ./countryhistory.MYI: 4863 extents found, perfection would be 6 extents |
| [00:34:07] | nemiroal: | Kazan: I am just concerned that it will just happen again due to the way expiration works. |
| [00:35:13] | Kazan: | is there a way to tell backend to automatically purge any file order than <DATE> |
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| [00:35:55] | Kazan: | i need to get 3 2TB drives :P |
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| [00:36:01] | nemiroal: | Kazan: I have 750GB XFS partition and it was fragmenting to ~ 90% in a few days.. doing daily forced defrags keeps it around 8%. |
| [00:36:08] | Kazan: | and replace my lvm with 2 of them and slab the other in my main machine :P |
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| [00:36:41] | clever: | weeee, screensaver started up in vnc |
| [00:36:46] | clever: | great way to waste cpu:P |
| [00:37:11] | clever: | and give a virus scare |
| [00:37:24] | clever: | 'wtf is fuzzyflakes doing running on my username' :P |
| [00:38:32] | nemiroal: | Kazan: anyhow... wonder if your commflag will work better now. |
| [00:38:46] | Kazan: | all i did was fsck'ed |
| [00:38:51] | Kazan: | im going to pull a bunch of old files off though |
| [00:39:16] | clever: | using 'filefrag' you can find out how badly fragmented your last recording was |
| [00:39:18] | nemiroal: | Kazan: I guess you are almost full? |
| [00:39:42] | Kazan: | yeah |
| [00:39:46] | Kazan: | 122gb we free |
| [00:39:49] | Kazan: | about to free a bunch of that off |
| [00:39:58] | Kazan: | had all 10 seasons of SG-1 in my videos dir :P |
| [00:40:02] | clever: | nice |
| [00:40:13] | Kazan: | got that on my PC here in this room... and i got a bunch of double layer DVD's waiting to put it onto |
| [00:40:14] | clever: | i got them all on dvd now so i can delete any i find |
| [00:40:15] | Kazan: | i should get started |
| [00:43:25] | wagnerrp: | Kazan: you do realize that hard drives are a cheaper form of storage than DL DVDs right? |
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| [00:44:18] | Kazan: | yes |
| [00:44:22] | Kazan: | but you have to have room for harddrives |
| [00:44:27] | Kazan: | my mythbox has a 1TB array |
| [00:44:35] | Kazan: | i had it 98% full a few weeks ago |
| [00:44:44] | clever: | my 1tb is only 79% |
| [00:45:03] | clever: | and has over 200gig on autoexpire |
| [00:45:26] | Kazan: | more than half my array was taken up by videos not managed by mythbackend :P |
| [00:45:30] | Kazan: | lots of stuff in the video dir |
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| [00:46:20] | nemiroal: | Kazan: just curious? did you look at the fibmap.pl script to measure fragmentation? found it via google. Thinking about trying it on my laptop. |
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| [00:46:47] | Kazan: | didn't see it nemi |
| [00:46:54] | Kazan: | was more concerned with removing the fragmentation |
| [00:47:01] | nemiroal: | http://www2.lut.fi/~ilonen/ext3_fragmentation.html |
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| [00:47:33] | Kazan: | found it already via google |
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| [01:12:13] | nemiroal: | Kazan: I have been playing around with the fibmap.pl script and it is pretty useful. My laptop's ext3 partition is 88% full and has around 11GB left. I did an experiement to see how good ext3 defrag algorythm is. I have a 700MB iso file which which has 220 fragments. I copy it to another file. The new file has 268 fragments. then I delete the original file.. and copy the copy back to see how well ext3 reclaims the best possible continu |
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| [01:13:43] | nemiroal: | Kazan: you would think I should get close to the original 220 fragments and not 234. seems like this isn't so great. |
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| [01:20:31] | nemiroal: | Kazan: another thing I have notice is that the slower bitrate video files get more fragmented. If you think about it for a little bit it makes sense sense why this is the case. |
| [01:22:42] | Dagmar: | You're mistaken about how the algs work |
| [01:23:06] | nemiroal: | Not best fit? |
| [01:23:07] | Dagmar: | The only way you should expect to see the original 220 fragments is if you were copying it back to a filesystem in the same state as before. |
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| [01:24:32] | Dagmar: | ...as in it would be in the same state as when the file was originally written. |
| [01:24:45] | Dagmar: | There's a reason these routines are complex. |
| [01:25:01] | nemiroal: | Dagmar: if I delete the space the original file was using just before copying it back, then I would expect it try to use up the blocks that I just freed up. so if that is not the case then you are right.. I am mistaken |
| [01:27:55] | Dagmar: | This is a problem humans have been trying to solve elegantly for hundreds of years. |
| [01:28:56] | nemiroal: | I assume it is a balance between best fit (contigious) and first fit (speed) |
| [01:31:47] | nemiroal: | obviously defragmentation is not the #1 priority here. |
| [01:32:01] | nemiroal: | but some kind of balance |
| [01:32:13] | clever: | some filesystems will 'defrag' files that get used alot |
| [01:32:30] | Dagmar: | Which ones. |
| [01:32:36] | clever: | i forget which ones |
| [01:32:44] | clever: | id have to go over the list in wikipedia agin |
| [01:32:54] | clever: | could find one of those and make a 50gig test storage group to see the effects |
| [01:33:47] | nemiroal: | with they way Myth does its expiration (assume the fill is kept at about the same level) its seems like we would be losing ground eventually with ext3.. |
| [01:34:17] | wagnerrp: | so run a monthly defrag |
| [01:34:28] | wagnerrp: | umount at 3am, defrag, remount |
| [01:34:42] | Dagmar: | And don't forget the racing stripes |
| [01:34:51] | wagnerrp: | speed holes |
| [01:34:59] | wagnerrp: | they let your hard drive breathe |
| [01:35:54] | clever: | the local hospital uses a drill to make the harddrive spin faster! |
| [01:36:28] | iamlindoro: | In case you wondered what happened to the kid from Jerry Maguire, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, I give you clever |
| [01:36:35] | iamlindoro: | The human head weighs eight pounds! |
| [01:36:46] | Dagmar: | hehe |
| [01:36:54] | clever: | they actualy do it to 'destroy' the drive |
| [01:36:59] | nemiroal: | seems like the only way to handle defrag is to stay on top of it from the get go.. doing to do defrag after it is to that point is too late as you will have to delete lots of files. |
| [01:37:06] | Dagmar: | So THAT's why we can't use them as bowling balls... they're below tourney weight |
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| [01:38:03] | nemiroal: | which is what ext3 was supposed to avoid |
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| [01:38:58] | Dagmar: | Um... who said? |
| [01:39:09] | Dagmar: | ext3 is just ext2 with journalling strapped on |
| [01:39:30] | Dagmar: | Not that it's not fragmentation resistant or anything |
| [01:39:56] | nemiroal: | clever: perhaps you are thinking about hfs+ |
| [01:44:03] | clever: | that might have been one of them |
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| [01:47:33] | nemiroal: | wagnerrp: obviously, it would be nice if you could defrag ext3 without taking it offline. Some people will not have the luxury of unmounting the drive due to on going recordings.. even at 3 am. However, as you suggest, for many people the unmount thing could be a good solution. |
| [01:50:10] | Lexridge: | I ask this last night with only one opinion, but what do you folks think of this box? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Searc . . . p;CatId=1427 |
| [01:50:51] | Lexridge: | I like that it can even play MP3s from a flash drive. |
| [01:51:03] | Lexridge: | shame it can't play oggs. :( |
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| [01:52:06] | wagnerrp: | what would you want it for? |
| [01:52:48] | Lexridge: | Basically to turn a computer monitor into an HDTV...something I have a lot of floating around. |
| [01:52:57] | Lexridge: | without a computer, of course. |
| [01:53:06] | nemiroal: | does it have dual dvi for a reason? are there two tuners in it? |
| [01:53:17] | Lexridge: | not sure....I wondered that myself. |
| [01:53:22] | wagnerrp: | one passthrough, one output |
| [01:53:43] | nemiroal: | ic |
| [01:53:52] | clever: | # Interface: Standalone TVBox with DVI In/Out |
| [01:54:07] | Lexridge: | makes sense |
| [01:54:13] | clever: | you can probly use the monitor as a monitor when the device is 'off' |
| [01:54:27] | Lexridge: | yup, I'll bet you're right |
| [01:54:35] | clever: | if your realy lucky, PiP between the comp and digital:P |
| [01:54:51] | Lexridge: | that would really be nice!!! |
| [01:54:58] | Lexridge: | not likely however. :( |
| [01:56:32] | Lexridge: | I wonder if it can output on all outputs simultaniously. In otherwords, HDTV on DVI, while d/cing to composite at the same time. |
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| [01:57:34] | nemiroal: | wish I had spare DVI monitors.. that would be a nice problem to have. Someone I think I would figure out a way to connect them to a machine however.. dual monitors, quad monitors.. ;-) |
| [01:57:44] | nemiroal: | Somehow... |
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| [01:58:56] | Lexridge: | nemiroal: There is also a VGA version here: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Searc . . . p;CatId=1427 |
| [01:59:10] | nemiroal: | Lexridge.. now you are talking |
| [01:59:44] | Lexridge: | and it's a bit cheaper |
| [02:00:25] | nemiroal: | that could be a useful product.. lots of people are getting rid of their VGA monitors. |
| [02:00:51] | Lexridge: | yea! |
| [02:00:59] | nemiroal: | $50 more then a converter box and you get better resolution then SD. |
| [02:01:05] | Lexridge: | not realizing that old monitor could be their next HDTV |
| [02:01:13] | nemiroal: | exactly |
| [02:01:41] | Lexridge: | however, I have never heard of KWorld before. Has anyone ever used any of their products? |
| [02:02:08] | wagnerrp: | theyre one of the cheaper digital tuner makers |
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| [02:02:20] | Lexridge: | I see they also have a PCI tuner lineup as well. |
| [02:02:25] | nemiroal: | Lexridge: yeah.. they have been around a while. they also do a lot of the frame grabbers and PCI based satellite tuners. |
| [02:02:34] | Lexridge: | oh okay |
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| [02:03:16] | Lexridge: | Heck, I wouldn't mind buying one of each VGA/DVI. |
| [02:03:39] | Lexridge: | actually, the DVI can probably use a VGA adaptor just fine. |
| [02:03:42] | nemiroal: | Lexridge: the question is can you get a mythfront end down close enough to this price. |
| [02:03:53] | wagnerrp: | Lexridge: no |
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| [02:04:33] | Lexridge: | wagnerrp: The DVI spec allows for analog signals, as most computer gfx cards do, but this box may not since they sell two versions. |
| [02:05:00] | wagnerrp: | Lexridge: except... the device specs list 'DVI-D', which is digital only |
| [02:05:16] | Lexridge: | oh, didn't even notice that. |
| [02:06:31] | Lexridge: | I just downloaded the manual for it. |
| [02:06:57] | Lexridge: | nice, it shows the OSD in manual |
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| [02:07:46] | Lexridge: | it even includes an antenna |
| [02:08:43] | Lexridge: | not much of a manual really. Very short on tech specs. |
| [02:08:55] | nemiroal: | I am keeping my eye on the Roku |
| [02:09:01] | Lexridge: | link? |
| [02:09:07] | nemiroal: | $99.. would be awesome frontend |
| [02:09:29] | nemiroal: | google "roku netflix mythtv" |
| [02:10:25] | Lexridge: | I wish we could build a myth frontend for ~$100. That would be sweet! |
| [02:10:43] | nemiroal: | got all you need on this thing |
| [02:11:00] | Lexridge: | except a tuner |
| [02:11:13] | nemiroal: | right |
| [02:11:28] | nemiroal: | I meant for a frontend |
| [02:11:48] | nemiroal: | which dont have tuners. ;-) |
| [02:11:56] | Lexridge: | true |
| [02:12:50] | wagnerrp: | i love when i provide a solution to a problem on -users |
| [02:12:53] | Lexridge: | I wonder how hackable that kworld tuner would be. Just add embedded linux with mythfrontend. :) |
| [02:13:00] | wagnerrp: | the solution gets ignored, the problem continues |
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| [02:13:11] | wagnerrp: | and the exact same solution is provided another two times |
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| [02:13:49] | nemiroal: | wagnerrp: sorry.. what solution did you provide.. I dont think I saw that. |
| [02:13:56] | Lexridge: | nor did I |
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| [02:14:37] | iamlindoro: | He is speaking about the -users mailing list |
| [02:14:53] | nemiroal: | what do I search for on that mailing list? |
| [02:15:05] | nemiroal: | I have no idea what solution we are talking about |
| [02:15:07] | wagnerrp: | it has nothing to do with the converstaion in here |
| [02:15:11] | nemiroal: | ah |
| [02:15:26] | wagnerrp: | im just going through today's mails, and commenting |
| [02:15:31] | nemiroal: | ic |
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| [02:16:40] | Lexridge: | nemiroal: Perhaps with a clever firmware upgrade, you could attach a HDD via USB and play videos from it. :) that would be really nice! |
| [02:17:05] | wagnerrp: | i gave the solution early yesterday afternoon, the problem was still being discussed this morning |
| [02:17:48] | nemiroal: | Lexridge: does it have USB? |
| [02:18:07] | Lexridge: | yea, it will play MP3s and show pics via the USB. |
| [02:18:41] | nemiroal: | oh.. you are talking about the Kworld.. got ya. |
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| [02:23:08] | Lexridge: | What is the smallest HDTV set being made? I really need one in the ~7" size, but cannot find anything smaller than 15". |
| [02:23:38] | wagnerrp: | sony has that 11" 1080p set |
| [02:23:51] | clever: | Lexridge: usb hdd enclosures and usb sticks are practicaly identical from the usb driver point of view |
| [02:24:01] | clever: | they are just 'mass storage device's |
| [02:24:01] | nemiroal: | Lexridge: I would serious debate the need for HDTV on something so small. |
| [02:24:15] | wagnerrp: | oh, nevermind... its only 930x540 |
| [02:24:19] | nemiroal: | convert box should do ya |
| [02:24:25] | wagnerrp: | 960x540 |
| [02:24:29] | Lexridge: | clever: yes, but the software/firmware has to be able to support the content. |
| [02:24:41] | clever: | Lexridge: yeah thats the only problem |
| [02:24:45] | nemiroal: | $40 convertor box? |
| [02:24:47] | Lexridge: | clever: I should have been more clear on that. |
| [02:24:53] | clever: | which can allways be tested with files on a usb stick |
| [02:25:35] | Lexridge: | wagnerrp: Looking for the sony now. But with an 11" screen, 540 would be fine. |
| [02:25:37] | nemiroal: | I hear people thinking about buying small TV's for HD... and I just dont get why |
| [02:26:07] | wagnerrp: | Lexridge: its very expensive (OLED) |
| [02:26:24] | Lexridge: | wagnerrp: the cheaper the better ;) |
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| [02:27:11] | Lexridge: | nemiroal: It's more a space requirement. And since ATSC is all there will be soon, I need a small HDTV set. :) |
| [02:27:31] | Lexridge: | it doesn't have to be full res, just pick up HD signals. |
| [02:27:54] | nemiroal: | netbook computer work/ |
| [02:27:55] | nemiroal: | ? |
| [02:28:29] | Lexridge: | This small TV would be for my wife, in the bathroom. We have a 4" CRT in there right now with NTSC tuner. She uses it when she does her makeup in the mornings to watch the news. |
| [02:28:45] | nemiroal: | oh |
| [02:29:15] | Lexridge: | All the stations in this area are now digital, except for the one she watches. Been lucky so far on that one. |
| [02:29:59] | clever: | http://store.mp3car.com/7_inch_Touchscreens_s/27.htm |
| [02:30:06] | clever: | 7" touch screens |
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| [02:30:24] | clever: | mainly vga i beleive |
| [02:30:48] | nemiroal: | Lexridge: the $40 convertor box doesn't work for ya with the existing set she has? |
| [02:30:57] | Lexridge: | clever: yea, I'd love one of those for my Honda. But still a bit pricey |
| [02:31:10] | clever: | Lexridge: you might be able to find similar things for the bathroom |
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| [02:31:22] | Lexridge: | nemiroal: No, it has a builtin antenna, but no F-connector for the box to plug into. |
| [02:32:16] | Lexridge: | clever: I have been looking for a few days now. The cheapests sets I've found are in the 15" range. It seems the smaller ya get, the more expensive. Strange. |
| [02:32:31] | jams: | Lexridge- something like http://www.sjmediasystem.com/delv-7xlpro.html |
| [02:32:59] | Lexridge: | jams: We have a winner!! :) |
| [02:33:26] | jams: | http://www.heartlandamerica.com/browse/item.a . . . &DL=IVS3 |
| [02:33:39] | Lexridge: | and it has an RF input so I could connect it to my outdoor antenna :) |
| [02:33:40] | jams: | that one is a bit cheaper |
| [02:34:08] | Lexridge: | Still more than I think it should be, but around the same costs as the 15" HDTVs |
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| [02:34:28] | jams: | http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Naxa-7-i . . . product.html |
| [02:34:34] | jams: | or that one with a dvd player |
| [02:34:49] | nemiroal: | 234 lines of resolution.. cool |
| [02:34:51] | nemiroal: | lol |
| [02:34:55] | jams: | you have options |
| [02:35:16] | Lexridge: | jams: apparently. thanks for those links. very helpful indeed. |
| [02:35:46] | Lexridge: | the second item is "Sold Out" but someone else should have iut. |
| [02:35:51] | Lexridge: | it, that is |
| [02:36:03] | nemiroal: | good think it is wide screen.. can you imagine how many effective lines you would get if it has do black bars |
| [02:36:07] | jams: | found a cheaper unit on a site called chinavasion.com, not for sure i purchase fro there |
| [02:36:22] | Lexridge: | doesn't sound too safe to me either. |
| [02:37:08] | jams: | here you go, knock yourself out http://www.shopwiki.com/detail/d=7_Inch_Porta . . . ner_SC-193A/ |
| [02:37:50] | Lexridge: | Sweet!!! |
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| [02:38:41] | nemiroal: | nice price. |
| [02:38:50] | Lexridge: | very! |
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| [02:40:30] | nemiroal: | if you go to the first link.. amazon they have other models |
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| [02:41:22] | nemiroal: | check out that coby |
| [02:41:28] | Lexridge: | nemiroal: checking them all out as I type. |
| [02:41:35] | nemiroal: | has a vga input too |
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| [02:42:19] | Lexridge: | nice |
| [02:42:48] | Lexridge: | I just can't get over the "fat" look with all the plastic around the screen. |
| [02:43:18] | nemiroal: | wonder why it is designed that way |
| [02:43:23] | Lexridge: | the Haier looks sweet. |
| [02:44:44] | clever: | Lexridge: the forums on mp3car have alot of images of the displays being torn appart |
| [02:44:54] | clever: | so it can be custom mounted in the car and look factory |
| [02:45:13] | Lexridge: | that's cool! |
| [02:45:32] | clever: | that will also show what the 'fat' at the edges is |
| [02:46:25] | Lexridge: | Humm, antenna? |
| [02:46:36] | clever: | they are all wired |
| [02:46:49] | clever: | some have an ir remote |
| [02:47:05] | clever: | ive also seen some with backup camera options |
| [02:47:18] | clever: | and a spare wire to force it into that input(hook to backup light) |
| [02:47:38] | Lexridge: | clever: cool site. I bookmarked it. |
| [02:49:04] | Lexridge: | clever: I have been wanting to build an Amarok computer for my vehicle. However, that would require an expensive touchscreen. |
| [02:50:00] | nemiroal: | Lexridge: are you sure she just would rather have an old 17" CRT monitor attached to a KWorld in the bathroom.. lol |
| [02:50:40] | clever: | most of my laptops have a round cable connecting the lcd to the video board |
| [02:50:41] | Lexridge: | nrmiroal: the bedroom is already taken care of ;) |
| [02:50:54] | clever: | you can easily flip the panel over to look like a tablet pc |
| [02:51:01] | clever: | glue/screw it in place |
| [02:51:02] | wagnerrp: | round? not a ribbon cable? |
| [02:51:05] | clever: | and mount on the wall |
| [02:51:16] | clever: | wagnerrp: the d600 and d630 are a round cord |
| [02:51:19] | clever: | the c600 is a ribbon |
| [02:51:22] | nemiroal: | just would be stylish you know.. especially some of those nice old beige ones with some burnout in the monitor... very classy. |
| [02:51:26] | nemiroal: | she would love it |
| [02:51:45] | Lexridge: | lol |
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| [02:52:20] | netrix-: | is there a network based capture card like the hd homerun but for analog? i want to replace my pvr 500's with something. thx. |
| [02:52:23] | clever: | http://alnino2005.googlepages.com/15"diydigitalpictureframe |
| [02:52:26] | Lexridge: | Believe me, If I pick it out, she will complain about it in one way or another. I'll just give her a list of links and let her choose what she wants....just to be safe. ;) |
| [02:52:33] | clever: | theres stuff like that all over the web |
| [02:52:36] | clever: | converting laptops into picture frames |
| [02:52:42] | wagnerrp: | netrix-: no |
| [02:52:44] | clever: | nothing stops you from using mythtv on it |
| [02:53:18] | wagnerrp: | clever: besides the inability of an old laptop from running ATSC video |
| [02:53:32] | clever: | wagnerrp: then use a new laptop:P |
| [02:53:42] | nemiroal: | Lexridge: I'm impressed. sounds like you have been married a while too. ;-) |
| [02:53:48] | clever: | my d630 can do vdpau |
| [02:53:53] | Lexridge: | 16 years in April. |
| [02:54:22] | nemiroal: | its always a bad idea unless it is their idea. ;-) |
| [02:54:54] | Lexridge: | yea, It took me about 5 years to figure that one out. lol |
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| [02:55:34] | clever: | wagnerrp: you could also mount the whole laptop behind a weather proof glass pane in the wall |
| [02:55:43] | clever: | so its splash resistant |
| [02:55:54] | Lexridge: | Like when she makes me pick where to eat out, and if the service is bad, it's all my fault. |
| [02:56:05] | meshe: | lol |
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| [02:56:28] | nemiroal: | netrix-: can you describe what you are looking for a bit more.. trying to understand if you expect it to a network device or not. |
| [02:57:29] | nemiroal: | Lexridge: "Weird Al – Stuck in the drive thru" |
| [02:57:46] | meshe: | what intel cpu would be recommended for HD playback? |
| [02:57:56] | Lexridge: | nemiroal: lol |
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| [02:59:30] | nemiroal: | meshe: video card is probably more important then CPU. |
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| [02:59:57] | meshe: | i thought until vdpau was available the video was decoded on the cpu |
| [03:00:36] | meshe: | once vdpau is out then any of my systems will do, including my 1.7 celeron |
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| [03:01:39] | a1fa: | so what causes b&w picture on S-Video output? |
| [03:02:02] | meshe: | a1fa: setting your tvout to composite |
| [03:02:16] | a1fa: | ? |
| [03:02:22] | a1fa: | tv-out is set to svideo |
| [03:02:41] | Dagmar: | Leaving it set to PAL is another great wa |
| [03:02:42] | Dagmar: | y |
| [03:02:51] | Dagmar: | Also there's the ever-popular "using an ATI video card" |
| [03:02:52] | meshe: | well, that's one thing that happened to me |
| [03:02:53] | nemiroal: | a1fa: did you check the pins? |
| [03:03:07] | Dagmar: | You sure you're not watching AMC? |
| [03:03:14] | meshe: | hehe |
| [03:03:35] | a1fa: | no |
| [03:03:37] | a1fa: | not yet |
| [03:03:50] | a1fa: | i see color when i reboot |
| [03:03:53] | a1fa: | eneryg* |
| [03:04:13] | nemiroal: | mesche: I have a 3.0 Ghz Dual Pentium IV 820D cpu and it doesnt play back right due to the crappy video card. |
| [03:04:25] | a1fa: | energy screen is green |
| [03:05:30] | nemiroal: | a1fa: what is the output device? |
| [03:05:49] | a1fa: | TV-0 |
| [03:06:04] | nemiroal: | no.. I mean.. what are we talking about here.. a Video card? |
| [03:06:07] | meshe: | video cards are cheap, 8800's are $100 now |
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| [03:06:15] | nemiroal: | $100 is ceap? |
| [03:06:19] | nemiroal: | lol |
| [03:06:21] | a1fa: | nemiroal: |
| [03:06:52] | meshe: | compared to cpu's if i had to upgrade that |
| [03:07:16] | nemiroal: | lets put it this way.. I do fine with HD using a $40 CPU |
| [03:07:36] | meshe: | my husbands 3Ghz Core 2 Duo cost $300 about 5 months ago |
| [03:07:46] | a1fa: | how can i force color down this crap |
| [03:08:04] | nemiroal: | AMD Sempron |
| [03:08:05] | meshe: | nemiroal: i thought you were having problems with it |
| [03:08:16] | nemiroal: | meshe: different machine |
| [03:08:28] | meshe: | ahh |
| [03:08:36] | a1fa: | no color :( |
| [03:08:49] | a1fa: | but energy icon is green on reboot |
| [03:08:53] | a1fa: | so cabling is good |
| [03:08:53] | nemiroal: | my dual core P4 3.0 cant do HD.. I have a cheap machine with a Sempron and an nVidia 6150 and it does fine. |
| [03:09:21] | nemiroal: | meshe: go to the myth FAQ |
| [03:09:29] | meshe: | a1fa: is it svideo coming right out of the card or are you using a conversion cable? |
| [03:09:30] | nemiroal: | it will tell you know much CPU you need for HD |
| [03:09:40] | a1fa: | conversion |
| [03:09:42] | nemiroal: | it isn't that much.. if you have the right video card setup. |
| [03:09:45] | meshe: | ahhhhh |
| [03:09:45] | a1fa: | to S-VIDEO to RCA |
| [03:09:49] | meshe: | change it to composite |
| [03:10:01] | meshe: | er COMPOSITE |
| [03:10:08] | meshe: | they aren't totally compatible |
| [03:10:26] | a1fa: | no screens |
| [03:10:27] | a1fa: | now |
| [03:10:31] | a1fa: | in composite |
| [03:11:22] | meshe: | i had composite (rca) on the back of my video card and tried an svideo conversion cable and it never came out in color, i just had to stick with composite (rca) |
| [03:11:50] | nemiroal: | meshe: did you remove the composite cable completely? |
| [03:12:23] | nemiroal: | meshe: some card can detect the cable. |
| [03:12:24] | meshe: | i used a straight composite cable from the video card to the tv |
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| [03:12:34] | meshe: | i didn't have svideo on the video card |
| [03:13:05] | a1fa: | so what |
| [03:13:10] | a1fa: | so what's next? |
| [03:13:19] | Dagmar: | Some cards don't "get it right" unless the s-video output was connected to something live when the machine was booted. |
| [03:13:27] | a1fa: | ok |
| [03:13:28] | nemiroal: | look at the pin diagram for S-Video |
| [03:13:32] | a1fa: | so reboot |
| [03:13:39] | a1fa: | brb |
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| [03:13:47] | nemiroal: | I dont get the conversion cable thing |
| [03:13:55] | nemiroal: | is it an active device? |
| [03:13:57] | Dagmar: | what? |
| [03:14:04] | Dagmar: | "thing" is highly technical |
| [03:14:21] | nemiroal: | thingy? |
| [03:14:25] | meshe: | the one i was using was not an active device it was a cable with rca on one end and svideo on the other |
| [03:14:51] | Dagmar: | nemiroal: Can you link a close-up of whatever the heck you're talking about? |
| [03:15:14] | Dagmar: | S-video to composite can be mostly done with a simple resistor (but not the other way around, somewhat obviously) |
| [03:15:25] | nemiroal: | Dagmar: its not my cable. |
| [03:16:06] | Dagmar: | http://images.google.com/images?q=conversion%20cable%20thing |
| [03:16:29] | nemiroal: | a1fa: pin 4 Chrominance. |
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| [03:21:28] | nemiroal: | a1fa: so if pins 4 and 2 are not attached right.. I think you will get b/w |
| [03:21:46] | meshe: | a1fa is gone, he rebooted |
| [03:22:03] | Dagmar: | There's no point in wondering about cable issues. |
| [03:22:11] | Dagmar: | It's too easy to break out a continuity tester. |
| [03:22:25] | Dagmar: | Or freaking loose LED and AA battery and some scrap wire at the very elast |
| [03:22:29] | Dagmar: | s/elast/least/; |
| [03:22:49] | Dagmar: | Doubt == test |
| [03:23:57] | Dagmar: | Thankfully, men who spend hundred of dollars building their own PVR instead of just buying a TiVo tend to be the kind of people who might have a DMM around. |
| [03:24:31] | nemiroal: | true |
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| [03:25:16] | nemiroal: | that should be a quote |
| [03:25:27] | Lexridge: | it was ;) |
| [03:26:17] | Dagmar: | I actually *do* look at the stuff in the pictures that *isn't* the home theater rig when people put up pictures |
| [03:26:36] | nemiroal: | similar to: geeks are the only people in the world would would spent hundreds of dollars and hours trying to figure out how to make a free phone call. |
| [03:27:47] | Dagmar: | In my defense, it was a NASA mission |
| [03:28:28] | meshe: | $120 for free phone calls here :) |
| [03:28:44] | nemiroal: | asterisk? |
| [03:29:22] | nemiroal: | getting off topic..I guess.. sorry |
| [03:29:32] | nemiroal: | slap myself |
| [03:29:36] | meshe: | nah, asterisk is free, linksys pap2-na |
| [03:29:45] | meshe: | x2 |
| [03:29:59] | Dagmar: | "NASA Mission": Something that doesn't do anything very useful, but figuring out how to do it solves a lot of interesting related problems |
| [03:30:07] | nemiroal: | x3 |
| [03:30:10] | nemiroal: | ;-) |
| [03:31:24] | nemiroal: | I think we all know that free has a price. |
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| [03:34:43] | meshe: | true, it's more for the fun of it |
| [03:34:45] | Dagmar: | Free gets cheaper with smart |
| [03:35:52] | meshe: | i can dial into one of my 1–800 did's and call out my voip uplink for 1.1 cents a minute |
| [03:36:26] | nemiroal: | sometimes smart means you value your time and know what it costs in the first place. still trying to get there. |
| [03:36:51] | Dagmar: | I can dial wherever I darn well please from somethign that sits in my pocket. $50/month. |
| [03:36:54] | Dagmar: | "Cheap enough" |
| [03:37:17] | nemiroal: | point proven. |
| [03:38:12] | nemiroal: | I call my brother over our VPN link between houses using my PBX instead of calling him over POTS even though the POTS call is free... explain that? I am sick |
| [03:38:33] | wagnerrp: | correction... youre both sick! |
| [03:38:33] | nemiroal: | it just feels better |
| [03:38:36] | wagnerrp: | :P |
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| [03:46:48] | JEDIDIAH__: | ...even if I bought another Tivo, I would still spend money upgrading it. The DVD jukebox wouldn't go away either. |
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| [03:48:06] | nemiroal: | only thing that bugged me about my Tivo was the commercial skip. lack there of. |
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| [03:49:13] | JEDIDIAH__: | stock Tivos are lacking in storage space, especially once HD enters the picture. |
| [03:49:37] | nemiroal: | dont like "the man" telling what I cant do on my DVR because they want me to watch their commercials. |
| [03:49:54] | JEDIDIAH__: | inability to "scale compression" digital TV doesn't help either. |
| [03:50:23] | meshe: | i like the integration of my recorded media and my ripped media all in one device |
| [03:50:28] | nemiroal: | JEDIDIAH__: scale compression? lost me. |
| [03:51:02] | JEDIDIAH__: | analog Tivos have different compression levels... yielding more hours of recording time. |
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| [03:51:32] | nemiroal: | oh.. didn't know what about the new HD Tivos.. we dumped our before the switch over to ATSC. |
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| [03:51:56] | JEDIDIAH__: | HD Tivos just "dump the stream". Compression is not an option. |
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| [03:52:14] | nemiroal: | JEDIDIAH__: sounds like a lack of HP on the TiVOs? |
| [03:52:57] | JEDIDIAH__: | That can really suck for some OTA content. In my area, the SD stuff on digital channels seems to take 2–3x more bandwidth than it really needs. |
| [03:53:05] | wagnerrp: | TiVos have no horsepower to speak of anyway |
| [03:53:16] | wagnerrp: | the CPU only exists to run the on screen display |
| [03:53:36] | wagnerrp: | all compression/decompression is done on custom accelerated hardware |
| [03:53:41] | JEDIDIAH__: | stuff ends up taking more space than the DVDs with a lot lower quality. |
| [03:54:24] | nemiroal: | when I had my Analog TiVO the compression was not all that impressive. pretty bad actually |
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| [03:55:00] | JEDIDIAH__: | yes, skimping on MPEG2 bitrates gets gnarly fast. |
| [03:55:19] | JEDIDIAH__: | ...a definite tradeoff. |
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| [03:57:22] | nemiroal: | Used to compress all my HD content down to DVD quality on Mythtv. then I just gave up because it started breaking.. it was a PITA. cant say I do any more transcoding anymore. |
| [03:58:33] | wagnerrp: | cheap storage is rendering transcoding unnecessary anyway |
| [03:59:17] | JEDIDIAH__: | pointlessly using 2x or 3x the space you need quickly ads up. |
| [03:59:47] | justinh: | JEDIDIAH__: additional streams in the ts? just strip em out :) |
| [03:59:56] | nemiroal: | I cant keep up with the recorded content that I do have using a 750GB drive. |
| [04:00:02] | nemiroal: | mostly all HD. |
| [04:01:08] | wagnerrp: | the problem is that transcoding, and maintaining HD, takes a LONG time |
| [04:01:19] | nemiroal: | I think we can probably do some math here... figure out how many hours of TV your family watches per week and come up with a reasonable size HDD. |
| [04:01:20] | justinh: | nemiroal: regarding not being able to skip commercials on a Tivo... a TV exec was once heard to say that skipping was like stealing TV :P |
| [04:01:49] | iamlindoro: | justinh, I think your alarm clock is broken, you appear to be up in the middle of the night |
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| [04:02:06] | iamlindoro: | Not taht I don't appreciate the return of sanity to the channel when the UK folks wake up |
| [04:02:06] | justinh: | my body clock is f****d |
| [04:02:26] | JEDIDIAH__: | too much late night snacking perhaps... |
| [04:02:26] | nemiroal: | justinh: I think it was all about winning in the market by not getting hit by the broadcaster with lawsuits like ReplayTV did. |
| [04:02:47] | ** justinh does not 'snack' ** | |
| [04:03:59] | ** JEDIDIAH__ wonders why childrens educational programming is on at 1pm ** | |
| [04:04:03] | ** JEDIDIAH__ wonders why childrens educational programming is on at 10pm ** | |
| [04:04:16] | justinh: | so you can record it :) |
| [04:04:20] | nemiroal: | hmmm... I didn't realize that ReplayTV got bought out by DirectTV. |
| [04:04:42] | ** JEDIDIAH__ has a hard time believing they are that saavy. ** | |
| [04:04:47] | Dagmar: | It was either that or let lawyers nibble away the entire company |
| [04:05:04] | nemiroal: | that is good because I hear DirectTV DVR's are terrible. |
| [04:05:15] | JEDIDIAH__: | I've heard they aren't as bad as reputed. |
| [04:05:31] | nemiroal: | also.. interesting as I did work for both DirectTV and Replay. |
| [04:06:04] | JEDIDIAH__: | I know a guy that has a media server of some sort that hooks into the DTV dvrs. |
| [04:06:31] | nemiroal: | via UPnP? |
| [04:06:41] | JEDIDIAH__: | I don't recall the details. |
| [04:07:16] | JEDIDIAH__: | just struck me as someone demanding enough and still not one to be "seduced to the dark side" here... |
| [04:09:06] | nemiroal: | man.. i must have been living under a rock.. this acquisition of Replay happened last year. |
| [04:10:02] | nemiroal: | thanks all for being nice and not saying something before. ;-) |
| [04:10:55] | JEDIDIAH__: | What were you expecting? A wakeup call from central acquisitions notifications? |
| [04:11:17] | nemiroal: | just seems like big news to me. |
| [04:12:05] | JEDIDIAH__: | ...it probably made the news (just not very prominently) |
| [04:12:19] | nemiroal: | Dish should have picked them up before instead of getting slapped with the TiVo lawsuit.. which they lost. |
| [04:13:03] | JEDIDIAH__: | dunno if that would have helped. |
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| [04:13:52] | justinh: | what I don't get is how skipping ads was seen as against the law. Didn't realise you lot had legislation about that :P |
| [04:14:21] | nemiroal: | may have been cheaper if they would have pulled an Intel (in reference to DEC acquisition over Alpha IP) |
| [04:14:27] | wagnerrp: | last i heard, we were allowed to modify broadcasts to our pleasure, for personal use |
| [04:14:53] | wagnerrp: | but that was decided back when VCRs were a bit more difficult than a 'skip commercials' button |
| [04:14:55] | justinh: | ah but selling a box that did it wasn't erm... encouraged... lol |
| [04:14:58] | nemiroal: | is the broadcast flag being used yet? |
| [04:15:11] | cesman: | it was never in use |
| [04:15:16] | wagnerrp: | the broadcast flag got shot down |
| [04:15:45] | justinh: | that's not to say it's never bugged anybody whose PVR was complicit ;) |
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| [04:16:13] | Dagmar: | Definitely living under a rock |
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| [04:16:27] | nemiroal: | thanks Dagmar. |
| [04:16:59] | nemiroal: | I definitely getting to know some the personalities around here today. |
| [04:17:13] | Dagmar: | Hey you said it, not me |
| [04:17:13] | justinh: | hell I live in the UK & I heard about how a flag that was broadcast buggerred up recordings of some show or other for countless people |
| [04:17:15] | nemiroal: | just the tip of the iceberg; I am sure. |
| [04:18:32] | wagnerrp: | yeah, some broadcaster enabled it, and vista mce complied |
| [04:18:50] | wagnerrp: | the general internet descended upon them in a furor |
| [04:18:53] | nemiroal: | vista worked? |
| [04:19:07] | justinh: | must have been an off-day |
| [04:19:29] | Dagmar: | justinh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_flag |
| [04:19:30] | wagnerrp: | vista accepted the flag, and refused to record... so you *could* say it worked |
| [04:19:54] | JEDIDIAH__: | Microsoft was being "extra diligent". |
| [04:20:14] | Dagmar: | Microsoft was just sucking up to trade partners |
| [04:20:26] | Dagmar: | You enhance our monopoly, we'll enhance yours |
| [04:20:45] | nemiroal: | like TiVO |
| [04:20:51] | JEDIDIAH__: | ...on the subject of "why bother trading heat of one CPU for another"... |
| [04:22:01] | JEDIDIAH__: | vdpau jacks up my passive cooled video card 2C. software decoding of the same recording takes the better part of 2 cores and increases my main proc temp 10C. |
| [04:22:23] | Dagmar: | This suprises you? |
| [04:22:28] | JEDIDIAH__: | nope |
| [04:22:34] | Dagmar: | Okay then |
| [04:22:45] | JEDIDIAH__: | someone else was fixated on this... |
| [04:22:58] | nemiroal: | Dagmar: so broadcast flag is still there.. its just that it can not be enforced by the government. Did I get that right? |
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| [04:23:11] | JEDIDIAH__: | "why bother with vdpau, it will just be one source of heat replacing another" |
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| [04:23:37] | justinh: | JEDIDIAH__: I've jokingly said similar things |
| [04:23:47] | justinh: | it's not without a grain of truth IMHO |
| [04:24:05] | justinh: | it all adds up to heat you need to get rid of one way or another |
| [04:28:00] | JEDIDIAH__: | I think I will revise that... 1C vs 10C |
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| [04:29:20] | justinh: | when I first built mythtv on my C2D frontend I kept a close eye on CPU temps. Even with both cores pegged out it never got much over 55 deg C |
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| [04:30:19] | justinh: | so, if it was capable of chomping through HD I doubt heat would be a major concern |
| [04:30:29] | wagnerrp: | heh... my frontend is currently at 19C |
| [04:30:32] | JEDIDIAH__: | slave jobs will push my quad hotter than that if there's enough to use up all of my cpu capacity. |
| [04:30:52] | wagnerrp: | thats 4F hotter than the thermostat is set |
| [04:31:43] | justinh: | yeah well my HSF isn't what I'd call optimum, nor is case cooling in that LC02 case |
| [04:33:00] | wagnerrp: | ive got a crappy little heatsink on it, with the fan removed, and a slower one pointed at it, hanging off the power supply with twist-ties |
| [04:33:11] | phunyguy: | very nice |
| [04:33:18] | phunyguy: | ive had some rigs like that |
| [04:33:44] | phunyguy: | tied a fan to a heatsink once using thread |
| [04:33:57] | phunyguy: | worked like that for 3 years |
| [04:34:26] | wagnerrp: | hell, ive got a couple heatsinks that are almost designed that way |
| [04:34:55] | wagnerrp: | two thermalrights, and a scythe... the fan is held on by a piece of bent wire |
| [04:35:09] | phunyguy: | nice |
| [04:35:12] | phunyguy: | sounds stable |
| [04:35:40] | phunyguy: | also sounds like the PC cause i built in a cardboard box. |
| [04:35:47] | phunyguy: | but that only lasted about a day. |
| [04:35:58] | phunyguy: | case* |
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| [04:38:19] | Scunizi: | Just curious how you tune HD channels without a cable box? Are the compatible Myth tuners capable of tuning HD content? situation specific? west coast US on Cox Communications. |
| [04:38:52] | ** cesman get HD Over The Air ** | |
| [04:38:57] | wagnerrp: | you can get an ATSC/QAM tuner |
| [04:39:12] | wagnerrp: | thats for over-the-air digital, as well as unencrypted digital calbe |
| [04:39:36] | wagnerrp: | silicondust maintains a list of what channels you can get unencrypted in your area |
| [04:40:01] | Scunizi: | wagnerrp: is that silicondust.com? |
| [04:40:16] | wagnerrp: | yes |
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| [04:40:38] | wagnerrp: | you may be able to get additional encrypted digital cable channels over firewire and a capable cable STB |
| [04:41:05] | wagnerrp: | however firewire can be, and often is encrypted as well, if not disabled all together |
| [04:41:16] | cesman: | Scunizi: don't take that list to heart |
| [04:41:32] | Scunizi: | thanks.. I have a feeling they are encrypted.. putting the cable directly into the tv gives the basic digital cable but it's tough to tell if the true HD stuff is accessable.. |
| [04:41:34] | wagnerrp: | technically, they are required to provide at least functional firewire, but that doesnt mean any of them have to be unencrypted |
| [04:41:55] | cesman: | while it can give you an idea, getting QAM working is HIGHLY dependent on your provider |
| [04:42:05] | wagnerrp: | beyond that, you have to get an HDPVR, analog HD capture over component video |
| [04:42:20] | phunyguy: | hmm |
| [04:42:25] | phunyguy: | had a question about that card.. |
| [04:42:36] | phunyguy: | stereo sound only? |
| [04:42:40] | Scunizi: | wagnerrp: that would kinda defeat the purpose.. wouldn't it? |
| [04:42:42] | phunyguy: | or is it no sound at all? |
| [04:42:47] | phunyguy: | (by other means) |
| [04:43:18] | wagnerrp: | Scunizi: the purpose is to get HDTV into myth, if all digital options are encrypted, the only thing left is analog capture |
| [04:43:50] | wagnerrp: | and the HDPVR is the only (inexpensive) thing currently capable of capturing HD component in myth (trunk only) |
| [04:44:02] | phunyguy: | does that analog capture card do the encoding? or is that still done by the host CPU? |
| [04:44:33] | wagnerrp: | its not a card, its an external box, usb attached, with a built in h264 encoder |
| [04:44:40] | phunyguy: | ahhh |
| [04:44:45] | phunyguy: | was just going to mention that |
| [04:44:46] | wagnerrp: | audio is 2-channel, or ac3 passthrough |
| [04:45:01] | phunyguy: | yeah thought so |
| [04:45:21] | phunyguy: | for the passthrough it has to be ac3.. right? |
| [04:45:23] | phunyguy: | lol |
| [04:45:33] | phunyguy: | not sure what broadcasts are ac3 and what arent |
| [04:45:43] | wagnerrp: | all broadcasts are ac3 |
| [04:45:47] | phunyguy: | and the cable box has to have digital audio out.. |
| [04:46:09] | wagnerrp: | for 5.1, yes |
| [04:46:13] | phunyguy: | yeah. |
| [04:46:18] | phunyguy: | i was thinking of grabbing one. |
| [04:46:32] | wagnerrp: | are cable boxes even made with 6-channel analog output? |
| [04:46:33] | phunyguy: | but i dunno if i want to spend that yet to record Dish Network |
| [04:46:38] | phunyguy: | no wagner |
| [04:46:43] | phunyguy: | not that i know of |
| [04:47:14] | phunyguy: | my dish reciever for instance has HDMI out, optical audio out, and the component video + 2 channel audio |
| [04:47:20] | phunyguy: | as well as s-video |
| [04:47:45] | JEDIDIAH__: | how much do you spend on your dish subscription? |
| [04:47:54] | phunyguy: | and is optical in for recording in myth really any good yet? |
| [04:47:59] | phunyguy: | hmm |
| [04:48:15] | phunyguy: | $50 or so a month for Top 200 plan |
| [04:48:22] | JEDIDIAH__: | optical in should be fine. the HDPVR does all the heavy lifting. |
| [04:48:27] | phunyguy: | ahh |
| [04:48:35] | phunyguy: | well I have HD over the air for local.. |
| [04:48:45] | phunyguy: | but i like other HD channels as well.. lol |
| [04:48:45] | Scunizi: | wagnerrp: looking on silicondust I see "Type" = qam<number> / Channel (seems to be the same on several concurrent listings) and Program .. Is program supose to reflect the cable tv providers channel number? |
| [04:48:48] | JEDIDIAH__: | conceptually the HDPVR is just like a PVR150. |
| [04:48:57] | phunyguy: | right |
| [04:48:59] | phunyguy: | it does all the work |
| [04:49:06] | phunyguy: | what is the output on that HDPVR? |
| [04:49:16] | phunyguy: | oh you said USB right? |
| [04:49:20] | JEDIDIAH__: | h264 in a ts MPEG stream. |
| [04:49:29] | phunyguy: | i meant physical connection |
| [04:49:30] | phunyguy: | lol |
| [04:49:35] | JEDIDIAH__: | USB2 |
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| [04:49:38] | phunyguy: | yeah |
| [04:49:39] | phunyguy: | not bad |
| [04:49:58] | wagnerrp: | Scunizi: that is channel and program |
| [04:50:09] | wagnerrp: | meaning the physical channel the show is broadcast on |
| [04:50:17] | wagnerrp: | and the logical program ID within the stream |
| [04:50:26] | phunyguy: | how is the IRblaster on that HDPVR? |
| [04:50:39] | wagnerrp: | digital cable operates within the same 100 and whatever channels that analog does |
| [04:50:40] | ** JEDIDIAH__ doesn't use his. ** | |
| [04:50:45] | phunyguy: | bah |
| [04:51:01] | wagnerrp: | however there can be multiple A/V feeds within each channel |
| [04:51:17] | Scunizi: | wagnerrp: ah.. that's what I was wondering.. Channel stream and because it's digital you have .. say 75.2 for one station and 75.3 for another.. am I right? |
| [04:51:41] | wagnerrp: | channel 72, program id 2 and 3 |
| [04:51:53] | JEDIDIAH__: | 12.1 12.2 and 12.3 can be very different channels. |
| [04:52:06] | wagnerrp: | how the cableco also broadcasts an internal table, that the boxes use to name each channel |
| [04:52:14] | wagnerrp: | which is why you see 'unknown' on so many |
| [04:52:21] | JEDIDIAH__: | usually other multiplexes are lame stuff like weather radar. |
| [04:52:56] | JEDIDIAH__: | (ota multiplexes) |
| [04:52:59] | wagnerrp: | in my area, fox broadcasts a movie channel on the same stream as their main HD feed |
| [04:53:25] | Scunizi: | just trying to wrap my brain around all this.. and figure out if it's even worth attempting to build a myth box. |
| [04:53:37] | wagnerrp: | when its rebroadcast over cable, NBC and CBS got shoved into one stream |
| [04:53:44] | JEDIDIAH__: | of course everyone is free to do something different. '-) |
| [04:53:50] | wagnerrp: | so one tuner card can capture tv on both NBC and CBS at the same time |
| [04:54:11] | JEDIDIAH__: | ultimately it doesn't matter if a channel is named 12.1 and 12.2 or 12 and 13. |
| [04:54:30] | wagnerrp: | another card picks up ABC, FOX, and that movie subchannel |
| [04:55:04] | JEDIDIAH__: | If your guide data is good, you don't have to worry about the finer points. |
| [04:55:10] | Scunizi: | I think in my area the "true" HD channels are encrypted and digital channels are open. |
| [04:55:49] | wagnerrp: | which is because your cableco is run by a bunch of mouthbreathers |
| [04:56:04] | wagnerrp: | they could at the very least, provide the local broadcast channels in HD |
| [04:58:27] | wagnerrp: | the other problem with clearqam is that cableco's re-order broadcasts on a whim |
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| [04:58:55] | wagnerrp: | since the cable boxes will automatically update, it doesnt bother they users they actually want |
| [05:00:06] | wagnerrp: | every so often, stuff will fail to record, and i will have to do a rescan |
| [05:04:06] | Scunizi: | they do provide local channels in Hd but they reassign them to the 700 channel range and looks like they encrypt them. |
| [05:06:39] | Scunizi: | unless the 700 range is "just a number" that is displayed on the hddvr box. |
| [05:06:59] | iamlindoro: | It is indeed |
| [05:07:49] | iamlindoro: | the logical channel numbers are set by PSIP data in the stream, the frequencies are quite different |
| [05:09:00] | Scunizi: | I guess the only real test is to plug the cable directly into the TV and see what I get.. comparing what's on that tv with another hooked to a box |
| [05:09:19] | iamlindoro: | assuming that TV has a QAM tuner, yes, that's the best way to test |
| [05:09:30] | iamlindoro: | if it only has an analog tuner, then it won't tell you anything |
| [05:09:42] | Scunizi: | what does QAM stand for.? |
| [05:09:51] | iamlindoro: | Quadrature Amplitude Modulation |
| [05:10:29] | Scunizi: | ah.. no worries.. I've got at least one tv with a QAM tuner (while I cross my finger that I'm right) |
| [05:10:57] | wagnerrp: | newer digital tvs often have them |
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| [05:25:59] | nemiroal: | Scunizi: QAM is a common technique to used to encode different data patterns into a fixed bandwidth. |
| [05:26:21] | nemiroal: | you have seen this back in the days of 9600 modems |
| [05:26:53] | nemiroal: | any EE's here can tell ya this is common stuff. |
| [05:27:17] | nemiroal: | funny they call it QAM cable modem... like it is something new. |
| [05:27:25] | nemiroal: | been around forever. |
| [05:27:32] | Scunizi: | Can you use the resolution listed on silicondust as a means of guessing at the channels content ie.. HD vs. Digital? nemiroal understandable.. what's an EE? |
| [05:27:40] | nemiroal: | oh now |
| [05:27:43] | nemiroal: | oh no |
| [05:27:49] | nemiroal: | EE = Electrical Engineer |
| [05:28:05] | Scunizi: | you can tell I'm not one..:) |
| [05:28:13] | nemiroal: | that is ok. |
| [05:29:18] | nemiroal: | Scunizi: I dont understand your question about Silicon dust. what are you interested in simple terms. |
| [05:29:34] | nemiroal: | btw.. I have several SD HomeRuns |
| [05:30:47] | nemiroal: | Scunizi: if QAM interests you at all.. here is simple diagram you might understand. |
| [05:30:48] | nemiroal: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_diagram |
| [05:31:51] | nemiroal: | it basically uses shifts the frequency out of phase to represent predefined binary representation. |
| [05:32:13] | nemiroal: | its kind of complicated but simple at the same time. |
| [05:32:14] | Scunizi: | nemiroal: I just looked at my area for cox communications zip 92065 and was looking at the channel line up they had listed. |
| [05:32:39] | nemiroal: | Scunizi: and what is your question? |
| [05:34:10] | Scunizi: | I was looking at the aspect ratios and resolution to see if I could determine if some of the channels were actually HD vs. just digital.. I'm trying to determine if building a myth box is worth the effort on the tv side.. I realize I can rip dvd's and my cd collection. |
| [05:34:31] | nemiroal: | oh |
| [05:35:12] | nemiroal: | well even if it is just SD digital it will be noticeably better then analog cable. |
| [05:35:34] | wagnerrp: | not necessarily |
| [05:35:56] | nemiroal: | wagnerrp: yeah.. .assuming they dont compress they hell out of it |
| [05:36:36] | wagnerrp: | a lot of the SD digital stuff i get is just an encoded version of the analog broadcast |
| [05:37:02] | Scunizi: | that's pretty much my impression on my system.. although I could be wrong |
| [05:40:17] | nemiroal: | Scunizi: its gonna be crap shoot |
| [05:40:37] | Scunizi: | ok |
| [05:40:39] | nemiroal: | if with OTA digital.. they are free to use whatever resolution they like |
| [05:40:45] | nemiroal: | from show to show |
| [05:40:51] | nemiroal: | on the same channel |
| [05:41:14] | mchou: | bah |
| [05:41:26] | mchou: | even from show to commercials :) |
| [05:41:36] | nemiroal: | yup |
| [05:42:40] | mchou: | Scunizi: get a qam tuner. It's a low risk investment |
| [05:43:02] | mchou: | Scunizi: or a STB with firewire |
| [05:43:07] | nemiroal: | the Silicon Dust is nice because it has both. |
| [05:43:30] | mchou: | silicondust is nice, but expensive |
| [05:43:51] | Scunizi: | other tuners are pci based? |
| [05:44:01] | mchou: | or pci-e, yes |
| [05:44:09] | nemiroal: | expensive? debately. |
| [05:44:33] | nemiroal: | they can be found for around $130.. that is $65/tuner. |
| [05:44:36] | Scunizi: | vs the silicon dust box? |
| [05:44:36] | mchou: | if you need 2 qam tuners HDHR might actually be quite competitive price wise |
| [05:45:04] | mchou: | pci qam tuners can be had for $25 shipped |
| [05:45:37] | Scunizi: | ah.. however the silicon dust box allows a person to use vlc from anywhere on the lan as I understand it.. a +1 benefit? |
| [05:45:41] | nemiroal: | the big win for SD is that it is a network device |
| [05:46:08] | nemiroal: | Scunzi... the more tuners the better. |
| [05:46:09] | wagnerrp: | Scunizi: but whenever you use it for vlc, that means you cannot use it for mythtv |
| [05:46:22] | wagnerrp: | and if mythtv wants to use it and cannot, the recording will fail |
| [05:46:34] | nemiroal: | all the prime time stuff airs at the same time. |
| [05:46:47] | nemiroal: | if your family is like mine.. 1 tuner aint gonna cut it |
| [05:47:02] | Scunizi: | so the networked device can only be controlled by one device? |
| [05:47:11] | Scunizi: | *computer |
| [05:47:18] | wagnerrp: | it has two tuners, each tuner can be controlled independently |
| [05:47:35] | Scunizi: | from two different machines? |
| [05:47:36] | nemiroal: | you will most like need at LEAST 2 tuners. |
| [05:47:44] | wagnerrp: | however if you add both tuners to mythtv, and mythtv goes to use one while its being used elsewhere, bad things will happen |
| [05:47:52] | wagnerrp: | mythtv expects dedicated access to hardware |
| [05:48:01] | Scunizi: | Ah |
| [05:48:31] | wagnerrp: | also, if youre grabbing your local broadcasts over QAM, like i mentioned earlier, the cablecos usually double up channels |
| [05:48:36] | nemiroal: | if you have multiple backends the master backend will be the arbiter for the tuners. |
| [05:48:41] | wagnerrp: | i can record all four major networks with two tuners |
| [05:49:06] | nemiroal: | so you can have multiple backends accessing the same SD units at different times. |
| [05:49:14] | nemiroal: | as long as the master does the arbitration |
| [05:49:15] | wagnerrp: | if you have multiple backends, you only set up one of them with access to the HDHR |
| [05:49:29] | wagnerrp: | or you give one tuner to each backend |
| [05:49:40] | Scunizi: | what is the HR portion of HDHR? |
| [05:49:43] | wagnerrp: | you do not give the same tuner to multiple backens |
| [05:49:46] | wagnerrp: | homerun |
| [05:49:51] | nemiroal: | the point is that with the network device it is flexiable. |
| [05:50:12] | wagnerrp: | except... youre using it with myth, so that flexibility is gone |
| [05:50:17] | wagnerrp: | one tuner, one backend |
| [05:50:29] | Scunizi: | so is myth able to stream over the network to other pc's? |
| [05:50:31] | wagnerrp: | and then mythtv divvies out the streams from there |
| [05:50:43] | nemiroal: | absolutely |
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| [05:50:51] | wagnerrp: | yes, mythtv is network transparent |
| [05:51:09] | wagnerrp: | thats one of the most basic design principles around the program |
| [05:51:22] | senorzorro: | i'm having some issues with mythbackend and capture card since updating my system, does anyone know how to resolve "Can't open DVB frontend (/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0)"? |
| [05:51:30] | nemiroal: | another bonus of the SD is you can install it immediately where your cable comes into the house. |
| [05:51:31] | Scunizi: | so myth is just the front end? or backend or combo.. (the fog is clearing. |
| [05:51:37] | nemiroal: | and put the computer in a completely different room |
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| [05:51:44] | wagnerrp: | myth runs a backend and a frontend |
| [05:52:07] | wagnerrp: | the backend runs in the background, accesses the tuners, schedules recordings, etc... |
| [05:52:17] | Scunizi: | so for myth to stream to another machine in the house, does that other machine need myth too? |
| [05:52:18] | wagnerrp: | the frontend merely grabs files and plays them on screen |
| [05:52:31] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [05:52:41] | wagnerrp: | one machine can run a backend, or a frontend, or both |
| [05:52:57] | nemiroal: | Scunizi: it can also be a UPnP client.. doesn't have to by a Myth Client |
| [05:53:16] | wagnerrp: | UPNP is only capable of playing recordings, not livetv |
| [05:53:22] | nemiroal: | and you can have "n" number of backends and front ends. |
| [05:53:30] | Scunizi: | ok.. I'm catching on to this.. a UPnP device would be like an xbox 360 or ps3? |
| [05:53:42] | wagnerrp: | ps3, yes... xbox360, no |
| [05:53:56] | Scunizi: | brb.. 2 minutes |
| [05:53:56] | nemiroal: | wagnerrp: technically they are all recordings. |
| [05:54:17] | wagnerrp: | microsoft doesnt understand that the 'universal' means theyre not supposed to tack on their own custom extensions that break compatibility |
| [05:54:53] | wagnerrp: | nemiroal, Scunizi: you *can* watch a recording over upnp as it is recording... in a sense making it livetv |
| [05:55:07] | wagnerrp: | however you will occasionally have to close and re-open the videofr |
| [05:55:12] | wagnerrp: | to reset the total length |
| [05:55:33] | nemiroal: | wagnerrp: so MS PnP is busted? |
| [05:55:47] | nemiroal: | UPnP |
| [05:56:10] | iamlindoro: | uPnP aside, the xbox 360 won't play MPEG-2 via uPnp, and can't play the NUV container, making playing back recordings impossible |
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| [05:56:33] | iamlindoro: | as the first prevents digital recording playback, and the second prevents framegrabber playback |
| [05:56:42] | wagnerrp: | the upnp client in the xbox360 has some added protocols added such that it will only work with their 'media extender' setup |
| [05:56:51] | nemiroal: | nice |
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| [05:57:05] | wagnerrp: | there are some servers that have been modified as well, to be compliant with media extenders |
| [05:57:08] | wagnerrp: | mythtv has not |
| [05:57:22] | wagnerrp: | since, as iamlindoro mentioned, there would be no purpose anywayfr |
| [05:57:42] | nemiroal: | I love those guys |
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| [06:05:54] | Scunizi: | Thanks all.. I appriciate all the input. Wife's calling so like a good hubby I gotta run. Back another time for more education. :-) |
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| [06:50:34] | Tanthrix: | Does anyone know if all the Microsoft MCE remote controls have a self-learning TV power button? |
| [06:51:08] | nemiroal: | yes.. I think the power button works |
| [06:51:12] | Tanthrix: | Mine does, and I've been looking on ebay for a replacement. I've found tons and tons that are indentical to mine, but appear in the pictures to be missing the TV button in the top left. |
| [06:51:37] | iamlindoro: | No, they do not all have it |
| [06:51:49] | Tanthrix: | I have two power buttons – one on the right marked "PC," and one on the left marked "TV" – only the right one is programmable, and it's the one that is missing on most of the ebay ones I've been looking at. |
| [06:52:06] | Tanthrix: | Er, other way around. |
| [06:52:38] | Tanthrix: | iamlindoro: That was my suspicion. I seem to have found two, but they are both auctions, not buy it now which is annoying. |
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| [06:58:01] | Tanthrix: | iamlindoro: Do only the remotes with an actual separate "TV" power button have the feature, or do some/most of them have self-learning for the power button / volume, etc..? |
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| [07:02:58] | iamlindoro: | Tanthrix, Only the ones with the TV power button have self-learning, and only for that key |
| [07:03:15] | Tanthrix: | iamlindoro: Mine has self-learning for the volume as well. |
| [07:03:31] | iamlindoro: | sorry, those keys |
| [07:04:04] | Tanthrix: | iamlindoro: So does that mean the remotes without the TV power button do not have self-learning for volume either? |
| [07:04:19] | iamlindoro: | correct |
| [07:06:27] | Tanthrix: | A shame. |
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| [07:08:09] | Tanthrix: | iamlindoro: Never used an irblaster before with my MCE remote. Would it be fairly trivial to set one up to do power / volume for my TV? |
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| [07:08:30] | iamlindoro: | As trivial as setting an IR blaster up for any other purpose, I suppose |
| [07:08:41] | Tanthrix: | Decently reliable? Any lag? |
| [07:09:12] | iamlindoro: | For purposes of volume and power, it should be perfectly adequate, and while there would be some lag, nothing that bad |
| [07:09:45] | nemiroal: | Tanthrix: not the best range |
| [07:10:10] | iamlindoro: | nemiroal, What does range have to do with anything since the emitter would be stuck to the IR eye? |
| [07:11:02] | nemiroal: | sometimes you cant mount the IR eye directly |
| [07:11:05] | Tanthrix: | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Searc . . . mp;CatId=358 |
| [07:11:16] | iamlindoro: | The IR eye is part of the television |
| [07:11:21] | Tanthrix: | I was looking all over ebay and obscure places on google product search, and tigerdirect had it all along. |
| [07:11:24] | iamlindoro: | the IR blaster is affixed to the eye |
| [07:12:30] | nemiroal: | I have about 5 of these things |
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| [07:12:45] | nemiroal: | the emmitter sometimes works and sometimes doesn't |
| [07:12:54] | nemiroal: | depends on what you are attaching it to |
| [07:13:04] | Tanthrix: | That was what I was afraid of. |
| [07:13:09] | iamlindoro: | Then you are doing it wrong, there's no reason it can't be perfectly reliable |
| [07:13:10] | nemiroal: | cant always get it attached right |
| [07:13:27] | Tanthrix: | I think I'll just spend the extra $12 to get the self-learnable remote and reduce the complexity and setup time of the all affair. |
| [07:13:43] | iamlindoro: | Tanthrix, an IR blaster would work fine, but if you prefer the remote you found, just buy that |
| [07:14:19] | Tanthrix: | I am just direct cheap, that's my problem. ;-) And I found two of the non-learnable remotes plus an ir reciever for $26 shipped. |
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| [07:14:41] | Tanthrix: | direct=dirt |
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| [07:15:15] | nemiroal: | Tanthrix: I buy mine locally at a computer chop shot |
| [07:15:17] | nemiroal: | shop |
| [07:15:32] | nemiroal: | maybe you will have luck locally too. and wont have to pay shipping |
| [07:16:22] | Tanthrix: | I suspect my chances of finding the exact model I want are pretty slim, but I suppose I could call around. |
| [07:17:27] | nemiroal: | I was start by finding a place which sells media PC enclosures. |
| [07:17:47] | nemiroal: | they usually get people bugging them for the remotes too |
| [07:18:04] | nemiroal: | often they wont sell the remotes by themselves.. like of like OEM copies of Windows |
| [07:18:06] | nemiroal: | its wierd |
| [07:18:29] | nemiroal: | I get the OEM version of the remotes and they are cheaper. |
| [07:21:11] | Tanthrix: | Looks like I may have found a place, but they have a note about not selling it without software. |
| [07:22:17] | nemiroal: | the license is a bit strange... sometimes you can get away with buying some RAM and they will let you be. |
| [07:22:33] | nemiroal: | ask them... they know how to workaround the OEM license |
| [07:23:55] | nemiroal: | how much is it locally? |
| [07:24:13] | nemiroal: | I think I get them for around 20–25 |
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| [07:31:11] | nemiroal: | http://www.byremote.com.au/Hip/mce_remote_faq.htm |
| [07:31:59] | nemiroal: | looks like the range of the ir blaster is around 1cm. |
| [07:33:52] | nemiroal: | which is a problem if the IR receive is set far enough behind the mounting surface. |
| [07:34:19] | nemiroal: | or if you cant point the emitter on the surface for some reason. |
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| [09:41:08] | pigeon: | hi all, why would a mythfrontend able to show live thumbnail of recordings, but when i go play it, it just jumps straight back to the recording listing? |
| [09:41:32] | justinh: | no idea without seeing any log output from mythfrontend |
| [09:43:24] | pigeon: | i tried -v playback, i see "NVP::OpenFile(): Error, couldn't read file: myth://192.168.42.6:6543/" |
| [09:43:53] | justinh: | same hostname on the frontend as the backend? |
| [09:44:29] | pigeon: | no, different hostname and machine, and i've got another frontend on another machine, that works properly. |
| [09:45:20] | pigeon: | maybe i should try -v all |
| [09:45:39] | justinh: | different timezone on the other frontend? |
| [09:45:55] | justinh: | different time? |
| [09:46:00] | pigeon: | hmm, it is. |
| [09:46:01] | pigeon: | ah |
| [09:47:16] | ** justinh uses ntp on all machines on his network ** | |
| [09:48:20] | pigeon: | i do too, but this laptop was set to a different timezone, as i was overseas. |
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| [09:49:11] | pigeon: | justinh: that fixes it, thanks a lot! |
| [09:49:53] | justinh: | no prob :) |
| [09:50:30] | pigeon: | and it's scary that you know the cause just by that :) |
| [09:50:54] | sid3windr: | hm, why can't you view recordings if you're in another timezone ;/ |
| [09:51:13] | justinh: | BECAUSE, that's why. Just because! |
| [09:51:16] | pigeon: | i'm sure that's not intentional ;) |
| [09:51:17] | sid3windr: | not that I'm advocating placeshifting |
| [09:51:22] | sid3windr: | as you think that's crap ;) |
| [09:51:30] | sid3windr: | but I don't really see where the time is used to stream the mpg ;/ |
| [09:51:47] | sid3windr: | evidently it's not important to open a bug report about |
| [09:51:47] | justinh: | timestamps are done in absolute time in the seek tables |
| [09:51:50] | sid3windr: | but still, I wonder :) |
| [09:51:56] | sid3windr: | AH! |
| [09:52:00] | justinh: | WHY, I don't know |
| [09:52:02] | sid3windr: | ok, it's indeed scary you know all this :] |
| [09:52:45] | justinh: | at least I think the timestamps are absolute. It's either that or mythbackend is fettling them so an element of absolute timing comes into it |
| [09:53:05] | justinh: | that would be the only way the local time would have a bearing on anything |
| [09:53:19] | justinh: | always seemed crazy to me |
| [09:54:02] | justinh: | maybe it's faster to do it that way than to work out time offsets, but even then I can't see that sucking up much CPU |
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| [09:54:57] | sid3windr: | :) |
| [09:57:36] | justinh: | hmm. offsets in recordedseek are big ints... like 851890040 |
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| [12:04:27] | stuarta: | that should about do that |
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| [12:38:12] | dubstar_04: | Does anyone know if a lastfm plugin was ever released? |
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| [12:39:25] | stuarta: | don't believe so |
| [12:39:31] | stuarta: | but i could be wrong |
| [12:39:33] | dubstar_04: | ummm... |
| [12:41:29] | dubstar_04: | does mythui enable the themer to create a look similar to the mythvideo using album art or are items still in a tree? |
| [12:46:04] | justinh: | not til mythmusic is rewritten |
| [12:47:00] | dubstar_04: | ok |
| [12:47:18] | justinh: | re last.fm ... I think somebody sent a patch in for that a long time ago. reasons for it never seeing the light of day could be all sorts of things including the mythui rewrite |
| [12:47:29] | justinh: | wouldn't be difficult to do though |
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| [12:48:09] | justinh: | we already know how much of a song has been played & last.fm's API is well documented |
| [12:48:44] | justinh: | though adding yet more settings for stuff not everybody would use... that'd be a bone of contention I guess |
| [12:49:26] | stuarta: | does anyone else use OSX? |
| [12:51:04] | justinh: | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . t.fm;#308304 – looks like there may already be a 'last played' entry in the db |
| [12:55:46] | justinh: | somebody had a go at integrating last.fm support in Feb last year but progress got bunged up around working out MD5s for some reason |
| [12:58:01] | justinh: | so to submit stuff to last.fm, look in the lastplay column of musicmetadata for a given hostname (assuming that MusicLastPlayDelay is set correctly in the db) & voila! |
| [12:58:25] | dubstar_04: | It doesnt seem too complicated but it might be best integrated into a mythmusic rewrite rather than as a stand-alone plugin? |
| [12:58:38] | dubstar_04: | like sbmc |
| [12:58:42] | justinh: | wonder why all this 2.0 bollocks never sees the light of day in mythtv.. could it be that nobody contributing uses it? ;) |
| [12:58:45] | dubstar_04: | *xbmc |
| [12:59:32] | dubstar_04: | whats that? |
| [12:59:49] | justinh: | never seen last.fm submissions as useful personally. Not until we get multi-user support would I be comfortable using it... my wife's playlists consist of shite like Tina Turner |
| [13:00:10] | dubstar_04: | ha ha |
| [13:01:06] | justinh: | and I dunno wtf difference it makes to the world to show I've been listening to $whatever |
| [13:01:46] | justinh: | generation 1.0, that's me:D |
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| [13:02:59] | dubstar_04: | I just like lastfm for when i want to listen to music without thinking about what i want to listen to. press play and listen to whatever comes on... |
| [13:03:10] | rwat: | I'm looking at a machine with on-board ATi X1250 graphics for a front end – anyone got any experience of these and/or would/wouldn't recommend them? |
| [13:03:21] | justinh: | ah. nevermind the copyright |
| [13:04:21] | justinh: | rwat: look for support in ATI's own closed source drivers. If it's not there, you're making a gamble the open source driver will give you Xv.. and you _really_ need Xv or good opengl |
| [13:07:28] | rwat: | I've no experience of ati graphics since the early radeons. All I'm seeing at the moment are references to aiglx and fglrx |
| [13:08:26] | stuarta: | www.ati.com |
| [13:09:00] | justinh: | http://ati.amd.com/products/catalyst/linux.html#2 &ndash ; but rather disappointingly, no listing as such |
| [13:09:18] | justinh: | blah blah blah ... "currently supports Radeon 8500 and later AGP or PCI Express graphics products, as well as ATI FireGL 8700 and later products" |
| [13:09:26] | justinh: | whatever that means |
| [13:09:51] | rwat: | yeah |
| [13:09:59] | rwat: | so if it's newer than radeon 8500 should be ok |
| [13:10:10] | justinh: | whatever that means |
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| [13:10:43] | stuarta: | is it a Radeon Xpress 1250? |
| [13:11:20] | rwat: | could be, the site just says x1250 |
| [13:12:05] | rwat: | seems to have hdmi output, it that helps |
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| [13:13:11] | justinh: | what about downloading the manual for the board? |
| [13:13:36] | rwat: | justinh: good idea – will try that |
| [13:14:51] | rwat: | I'm looking at getting this – http://www.very-pc.co.uk/?section=home-pcs&am . . . p;system=672 |
| [13:15:01] | rwat: | (obviosuly with vista and kaspersky removed) |
| [13:15:17] | rwat: | and using it to replace my back end box and main front end |
| [13:15:30] | rwat: | I'll be throwing a 1TB drive in there |
| [13:16:23] | rwat: | looks like it could be a good combined front/back end box, but I haven't done that for a while |
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| [13:20:50] | poodyp1: | rwat: I have a frontend with a Radeon X600 working fine with the open source radeon drivers |
| [13:21:27] | poodyp1: | also a regular computer with an x1900 with the RadeonHD drivers |
| [13:22:26] | justinh: | if I were buying a box to use as a frontend now I'd be making sure it'd be capable of playing high bitrate h.264, fwiw |
| [13:23:26] | justinh: | my current frontend will.. just.. but I can upgrade its CPU or slam in a nvidia pci-e card for VDPAU .. if that becomes usable within the lifetime of my frontend :) |
| [13:24:15] | rwat: | justinh: so it really nvidea only for that kind of performance? |
| [13:24:16] | poodyp1: | my frontend has a 2.6GHz Pentium D and can play HD mpeg2 streams captured from firewire |
| [13:24:18] | ** EvilGuru just did do that ** | |
| [13:24:35] | EvilGuru: | Although I am unsure if a 2.4 Core 2 will hack BBC-HD |
| [13:24:47] | rwat: | poodyp1: very nice – is that full 1080p? |
| [13:24:50] | poodyp1: | CPU usage is about 50% on one core |
| [13:25:11] | poodyp1: | don't have a source for 1080p |
| [13:25:16] | justinh: | EvilGuru: should do & be comfortable |
| [13:25:31] | justinh: | my T5600mobile C2D can.. just |
| [13:25:34] | poodyp1: | 1080i and 720p work just fine though |
| [13:25:49] | EvilGuru: | It is no big issue, I actually ordered a 3.16 Core 2 (but intend to shove it in my desktop, which has the 2.4) |
| [13:27:25] | poodyp1: | a 2.6 pentium d was equivalent to a 2ghz Opteron XD |
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| [14:11:40] | damian: | Hello fellow users, Im pondering, which is better: Dual Celeron 1Ghz or a P4 2.4Ghz ? |
| [14:13:08] | stuarta: | celery's are good for nothing |
| [14:14:00] | justinh: | soup. they're ok in soup |
| [14:14:28] | poodyp1: | also good with some ranch dressing |
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| [14:23:01] | janneg: | OTOH P4 are only good as electric heater |
| [14:23:29] | laga: | use them to keep the celery soup warm |
| [14:23:32] | stuarta: | which explains my elec bill |
| [14:27:13] | justinh: | or as Harry Hill would say.. There's only one way to find out... FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT! |
| [14:28:07] | janneg: | damian: where is a 1GHz celeron dual core available? allendale-512 is afaik only available as 1.6, 2, 2.2 GHz |
| [14:28:57] | damian: | twin cpu motherboard, the supermicro one, I have both systems sat in my cupboard doing nothing, just wondering which to make into another myth box |
| [14:29:22] | Dibblah: | They're also good with mince and potatoes. Don't believe me? Try it! |
| [14:29:42] | JEDIDIAH__: | you could always send them to the "Time Warp" guys for use as clay pidgeons. |
| [14:29:45] | damian: | Might be P3 or a celeron, can't remember |
| [14:29:45] | Dibblah: | damian: Buy some hardware. You'll be happier. Ask clever. |
| [14:29:47] | janneg: | ah, so they are old celeron, probably p4 based |
| [14:30:14] | poodyp1: | if this is for non-HD they're both equally terrible and suitable |
| [14:30:45] | damian: | already have a quad core running the entire home providing tv and satellite to everywhere possible, this is just for messing around with to be honest |
| [14:30:46] | JEDIDIAH__: | "equally terrible and suitable"... I'll have to remember that one. |
| [14:31:38] | justinh: | time vampires :) |
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| [14:32:23] | janneg: | no, 1GHz Celeron is pentium3 based. those early celerons were crap |
| [14:36:32] | stuarta: | all celerons are crap |
| [14:36:49] | damian: | just checked its a P3 1Ghz dual cpu |
| [14:37:07] | damian: | also for oldies ive a dual P2–350Mhz lol :) |
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| [14:37:16] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Dibblah | |
| [14:37:40] | poodyp1: | well it doesn't matter how much they suck if it's just for playing sd or whatever |
| [14:38:02] | poodyp1: | a celeron 600 could play sd |
| [14:38:49] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -v Dibblah | |
| [14:39:19] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Dibblah | |
| [14:41:01] | damian: | another subject: has anyone turned a UK Sky+ box into a pc case? Ive seen a fre modified cases on the freevo site, but wondering if anyone here has tried something ? |
| [14:42:30] | stuarta: | i'd prefer to hit one with a very large hammer |
| [14:43:30] | justinh: | damian: see Maplin code A99JH :) Less hassle than hacking a Sly+ box |
| [14:43:48] | justinh: | stuarta: I tried to reply earlier but forgot I'm not bothering to register these days |
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| [14:44:19] | filefreak: | hey all |
| [14:44:37] | damian: | justinh: superb! :) are you using one? Do you rate it ? |
| [14:44:48] | filefreak: | i just set up my first backend and frontend today and i am proud to say that im a new happy mythtv user :) |
| [14:44:56] | filefreak: | but...i got one question |
| [14:45:21] | justinh: | damian: no I'm not. I'm skint & stuck with a Silverstone LC02 |
| [14:45:21] | filefreak: | i have a TV card with Svideo/RCA video input |
| [14:45:45] | filefreak: | how do i get it to work with RCA input? |
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| [14:45:57] | filefreak: | it appears in the capture card list... |
| [14:45:58] | justinh: | filefreak: not for a game console I hope :P |
| [14:46:21] | filefreak: | justinh: no Xbox :P |
| [14:46:31] | filefreak: | its a pc |
| [14:46:35] | justinh: | ruh? |
| [14:46:50] | filefreak: | its a Winfast tv card |
| [14:47:01] | filefreak: | theres a bit of doco on it in the wiki |
| [14:47:16] | justinh: | no I mean I hope you don't intend to plug a games console into it to play games & watch through mythtv |
| [14:47:27] | filefreak: | oh lol no |
| [14:47:31] | filefreak: | its purely a backend |
| [14:47:35] | filefreak: | for video |
| [14:47:50] | justinh: | every video input needs to be assigned to a 'video source' |
| [14:47:58] | justinh: | once that's done, you can use it |
| [14:48:13] | filefreak: | i created a video source... |
| [14:48:26] | filefreak: | but it thinks i have to "scan for channels" |
| [14:48:55] | justinh: | you also need channels.. at least one :P |
| [14:49:06] | filefreak: | i have one video source for the digital tuner |
| [14:49:18] | filefreak: | one video source for the analog (winfast) tuner |
| [14:49:34] | filefreak: | and one for the RCA input on the winfast tuner |
| [14:49:48] | filefreak: | but it thinks that i need to scan for channels on the rca input |
| [14:50:04] | filefreak: | is it the fault of the tuner? |
| [14:50:10] | justinh: | if no channels exist.... |
| [14:50:23] | justinh: | you need at least one channel assigned to that input |
| [14:50:43] | filefreak: | understood... |
| [14:51:05] | justinh: | so, say you made a new 'video source' – that source would need at least one channel. Otherwise it wouldn't work for that tuner card input |
| [14:51:14] | filefreak: | yeh i know... |
| [14:51:19] | filefreak: | but how do i add that "channel" |
| [14:51:22] | filefreak: | i can't scan for it |
| [14:51:30] | filefreak: | and it doesnt have a "frequency" |
| [14:51:42] | filefreak: | becuase its RCA |
| [14:51:56] | justinh: | course you can't SCAN |
| [14:52:07] | justinh: | just make something up |
| [14:52:21] | filefreak: | oh really? |
| [14:52:33] | filefreak: | so i can add any random channel? |
| [14:52:44] | justinh: | no, I give everybody here completely random information |
| [14:52:45] | justinh (justinh!n=justin@cpc1-salf4-0-0-cust69.manc.cable.ntl.com) has quit ("leaving") | |
| [14:52:53] | filefreak: | just confirming :P |
| [14:53:08] | filefreak: | i know i sound like an idiot here |
| [14:53:42] | filefreak: | when i tried to scan, the backend crashed |
| [14:53:54] | filefreak: | i didn't think you would have to "trick" the backend |
| [14:54:41] | filefreak: | well that was kinda rude :/ |
| [14:55:31] | iamlindoro: | because he left the channel after spending five minutes giving you accurate, useful information he's rude? |
| [14:55:36] | iamlindoro: | Remind me not to bother helping you |
| [14:56:43] | filefreak: | no...i appreciated every bit of the help...just the last thing he said i took offence to |
| [14:57:21] | iamlindoro: | Better get used to it, this is IRC-- people who help has dry senses of humor, and people receiving help manage to forget all the help once they've gotten their panties in a wad |
| [14:57:29] | _abbenormal: | mornin iamlindoro |
| [14:57:37] | iamlindoro: | good morning _abbenormal |
| [14:57:49] | filefreak: | true that |
| [14:57:56] | _abbenormal: | looks like a early morning start for you |
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| [14:58:16] | iamlindoro: | _abbenormal, Not early enough I was supposed to be up two hours ago and in the gym, I'm being lazy :( |
| [14:58:38] | iamlindoro: | I'm supposed to swim two miles this AM, no idea when I'll fit that in now |
| [14:58:42] | _abbenormal: | i know the feeling there but at least do a walk around |
| [14:59:16] | _abbenormal: | i try to walk at least 3 to 5 miles a day |
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| [14:59:54] | iamlindoro: | ran 12 yesterday, just ddin't hit the sack early enough last night and turned my alarm off, my own fault |
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| [15:00:40] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v gbee | |
| [15:00:42] | _abbenormal: | yuppie you have to make up on the lost sleep some days even if you dont want to the ol body says so |
| [15:04:23] | justinh: | I went back to bed this morning, and I'm glad I did :) |
| [15:05:05] | iamlindoro: | I just realized that I have a meeting that goes late tonight, so now I don't regret that I won't get to work until 7:30 |
| [15:05:15] | iamlindoro: | adn maybe I'll sneak out and get my swim in too |
| [15:05:19] | stuarta: | justinh: i've ordered one of those things |
| [15:05:42] | stuarta: | even if only half of it works, it's a dvb-t tuner, keyboard, m00se, and mce remote |
| [15:05:52] | stuarta: | plus a backend/fe machine |
| [15:06:04] | justinh: | I was tempted but have bugger all spare cash. Got cleaned out my the wallet rapists at Kwickfit on Friday |
| [15:06:14] | justinh: | s/my/by |
| [15:06:46] | ** stuarta remebers the garage just phoned. 486 quid :( ** | |
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| [15:13:29] | justinh: | oof. stealer? |
| [15:13:42] | justinh: | hate main stealers & their robbing ways |
| [15:14:16] | justinh: | but next time I need new tyres I'm going to blackcircles.com. they do goodyear & pirelli for the same prices as Kwickfit charge for cheapies |
| [15:14:26] | stuarta: | nah, several expensive jobs all need doing |
| [15:14:41] | stuarta: | at least 1 of them i'd expected |
| [15:15:22] | justinh: | heh. I knew my wheel alignment was bollocks after clumping a kerb when the carpark at work was an icerink.. that cost me 2 new tyres |
| [15:15:42] | iamlindoro: | haha @ Seattle has both a "KING HD" and a "KONG HD" |
| [15:15:49] | iamlindoro: | (callsigns) |
| [15:15:55] | ** stuarta chuckles ** | |
| [15:16:30] | ** stuarta needs new front discs & pads, waterpump & timing kit, on top of the service ** | |
| [15:16:34] | justinh: | ooo. apparently anger at work is good for your career. I'm gonna be flying high soon then |
| [15:16:53] | stuarta: | it needs to be targeted appropriately |
| [15:17:33] | justinh: | oh, so storming into a manager's office carrying an active chainsaw & waving it agressively may be seen as bad? |
| [15:19:26] | justinh: | anyway stuarta ... be glad you don't have a SAAB. guy I work with has one & it's a total money sink. Makes run of the mill expensiveness look like pocket money |
| [15:19:42] | stuarta: | audi's too |
| [15:20:27] | nemiroal: | ferrari's |
| [15:20:41] | stuarta: | yeah but you expect that |
| [15:20:44] | justinh: | not suitable for 70 mile round trip commutes :P |
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| [15:21:06] | stuarta: | i would.. :) |
| [15:23:10] | nemiroal: | wanna feel worse? look at the DOW today. |
| [15:24:20] | justinh: | Despondex (tm) FTW |
| [15:24:47] | justinh: | http://www.theonion.com/content/video/fda_app . . . ant_drug_for |
| [15:25:11] | nemiroal: | "fix it"! |
| [15:25:26] | stuarta: | who though of that name? |
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| [15:25:57] | justinh: | some joker, prolly :P |
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| [15:31:19] | justinh: | stuff like the onion video feeds might just make me an avid user of mythnews |
| [15:34:02] | dubstar_04: | ha ha that onion news stuff is hilarious!! |
| [15:34:27] | justinh: | see the one about Sony's new stupid piece of s*** |
| [15:34:44] | justinh: | taking a pop at theirplaceshifting gadget I think |
| [15:34:47] | dubstar_04: | yeah i watched that after the depressent one!! |
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| [15:35:18] | justinh: | I spent most of thursday night watching onion vids |
| [15:35:37] | dubstar_04: | I thought you were against web tv? |
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| [15:36:09] | justinh: | I was, until I discovered that one or two things are worth seeing |
| [15:36:25] | justinh: | the vast majority of web tv (youtube et al) is still utter gash |
| [15:37:03] | dubstar_04: | ive never seen the onion news network before but i think i will watch it again... |
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| [15:38:45] | justinh: | the onion stuff is actually quite watchable in fullscreen mode too |
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| [15:40:19] | justinh: | actually I think the player in mythnews could do with using the GUI size for playback.. web video has no overscan allowance |
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| [15:43:40] | dubstar_04: | have you tried mythtube? |
| [15:43:59] | justinh: | yes :-\ |
| [15:44:47] | GreyFoxx: | Anyone know of a good low power draw motherboard that has plenty of pci slots these days? I'd love something like an intel atom with 4 pci slots, but I don't see any of those out there with more than 1 pci slot :/ |
| [15:44:48] | dubstar_04: | it works perfectly for things like this |
| [15:45:03] | GreyFoxx: | and the pci expander/breakouts are crazy expensive |
| [15:45:36] | justinh: | dubstar_04: its UI is erm... meh IMHO. |
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| [15:46:00] | justinh: | not even as simple to use as mythnews, and that's a step backwards |
| [15:46:04] | stuarta: | GreyFoxx: i think you won't be the only person looking for such a thing |
| [15:46:27] | dubstar_04: | ive not tried it for a while but it was really good when i did (before xmas) |
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| [15:46:58] | justinh: | mythnews can already work with rss syndicated video feeds |
| [15:47:13] | stuarta: | there's some that don't work |
| [15:47:29] | justinh: | yeah but how much work would they take to fix? |
| [15:47:36] | stuarta: | not that much |
| [15:47:41] | justinh: | and it's looking increasingly like mythtube has been abandoned |
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| [15:48:51] | dubstar_04: | I'm sure mythtube will be fixed when 0.22 is released |
| [15:49:10] | justinh: | I can wait |
| [15:49:11] | dubstar_04: | mythnews cant stream can it? |
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| [15:50:03] | justinh: | downloading short clips doesn't take long |
| [15:50:18] | dubstar_04: | its still a pain in the ass |
| [15:50:26] | justinh: | and it could likely be modified to start downloading, pause a short while & play the downloading file |
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| [15:50:57] | dubstar_04: | mythtube has the otion to download or stream... |
| [15:50:58] | justinh: | I dunno wtf is up with some people who make these 3rd party things but their idea of usability is crazy |
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| [15:52:59] | justinh: | anyway, an abandoned plugin is as much use as no plugin... so.. er... |
| [15:55:44] | justinh: | besides, with no mythtube for 0.21 I'm stuck with mythnews :P |
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| [15:57:11] | d0netsFN is now known as St0ned1 | |
| [15:57:14] | justinh: | time to hit the road |
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| [16:12:06] | Dr^Mouse: | hello all |
| [16:13:00] | Dr^Mouse: | I have a problem with my backend (i'll not reword that, have fun with it as you wish :) lol ) |
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| [16:14:35] | Dr^Mouse: | just upgraded from etch to lenny (AMD64), and I can no longer connect to the backend from either my main frontend or the testing FE on the BE server. No problems connecting to the MySQL DB. |
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| [16:16:33] | gbee: | "I have a problem with lenny" |
| [16:16:46] | gbee: | would be more accurate? |
| [16:17:10] | Dr^Mouse: | No errors appear in the BE logs, even with all verbose setting. |
| [16:17:22] | Dr^Mouse: | gbee: yeah probably |
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| [16:18:14] | Dr^Mouse: | tried telneting port 6543 no joy, I assume I should get something... |
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| [16:19:13] | Dr^Mouse: | oh, and I'm using the debian-multimedia.org repository packages. |
| [16:20:00] | Dr^Mouse: | so my question is: has anyone come accross anything like this, if so do you know how to fix it. If not, does anyone have any ideas? |
| [16:20:55] | stuarta: | lenny works fine |
| [16:21:01] | ** stuarta uses it ** | |
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| [16:25:28] | Dr^Mouse: | stuarta: are you using the AMD64 version? debian-multimedia packages? |
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| [16:39:51] | stuarta: | Dr^Mouse: no i always build from source (being a dev) although i do use deb MM for all the aux packages |
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| [16:44:40] | stuarta: | both on amd64 and x86 |
| [16:44:53] | Dr^Mouse: | stuarta: ok. that was going to be my next step anyway, and I think thats a good plan as (looking at the MM repo) it's still the etch package being used for lenny |
| [16:45:37] | stuarta: | shouldn't matter |
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| [16:54:45] | iamlindoro__: | Just to cover all the bases, all your myth installs, frontend and backend, are identical versions and revisions, right? |
| [16:55:17] | iamlindoro__: | (not that it shouldn't have complained about that to you) |
| [16:55:59] | iamlindoro__: | not being able to telnet to the backend port sounds suspiciously like the backend isn't running to me |
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| [17:03:51] | Dr^Mouse: | iamlindoro__: backend is running, versions are identical. |
| [17:05:04] | Dr^Mouse: | thats excactly what I thought at first, but I have it here, running on the console, and yet the port is not open. it throws no errors about openning the port. |
| [17:05:17] | iamlindoro__: | In that case I'd be looking at any new firewall/ipchains/whatever access restriction changes may have been added as part of the upgrade |
| [17:05:43] | iamlindoro__: | as not being able to telnet to the port when the backend is running properly is certainly an OS issue and not a myth one |
| [17:06:21] | arreyder is now known as FoghornLeghorn | |
| [17:06:37] | Dr^Mouse: | iamlindoro__: yep, that was my next guess. I ahve already checked my shorewall config, and thats fine. ill have a look at the iptables directly... |
| [17:08:06] | jams: | even if a new firewall was in place, i would think 127.0.0.01 or localhost would work. |
| [17:08:34] | FoghornLeghorn is now known as arreyder | |
| [17:09:46] | sid3windr: | not always |
| [17:10:13] | sid3windr: | Dr^Mouse: check netstat -ln to see if it's listening and where |
| [17:10:45] | stuarta: | well there you go, learn summink every day |
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| [17:10:56] | stuarta: | never used netstat -ln in my life :) |
| [17:15:14] | sid3windr: | I actually usually do netstat -plane |
| [17:15:20] | sid3windr: | but I didn't want to overwhelm with options :] |
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| [17:18:56] | Dr^Mouse: | sid3windr: nope nothing listenning on 6543 :( |
| [17:20:55] | Dr^Mouse: | where does myth get it's config from for port number? |
| [17:21:16] | Dr^Mouse: | is it in the db, and if so where? |
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| [17:22:15] | jams: | the settings table |
| [17:23:05] | jams: | look for a value like '%serverport'; |
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| [17:24:13] | jams: | i would try starting mythbackend with a greater verbosity and see where it hangs or says anything useful. |
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| [17:34:00] | Dr^Mouse: | jams: everything looks perfectly fine using verbose all. port is correct in the table. |
| [17:34:21] | Dr^Mouse: | should it log that it has opened the port btw? |
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| [17:37:32] | jams: | doesn't look like |
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| [17:46:25] | Dr^Mouse: | ok, im trying to build from source now (actualy from the debian-multimedia source atm, so that it makes a deb without me f'ing around) but it throws an error in libx264.c |
| [17:47:22] | iamlindoro_: | you're not using --enable-libx264, are you? |
| [17:47:34] | Dr^Mouse: | 'x264_param_t' has no member named 'b_bframe_adaptive' |
| [17:47:51] | iamlindoro_: | Although this may be your packagers fault if you're using their build system |
| [17:47:52] | Dr^Mouse: | its enabled in the debian/rules |
| [17:48:02] | iamlindoro_: | go punch your packager in teh face |
| [17:48:21] | iamlindoro_: | then kick him in the jaw and yell "Hey AHOLE, don't add flags you don't understand!" |
| [17:48:22] | ** Dr^Mouse has no idea where the debian-multimedia packagers live ** | |
| [17:48:31] | iamlindoro_: | It's not your fault |
| [17:48:34] | Dr^Mouse: | so i should knock out that flag |
| [17:48:36] | Dr^Mouse: | ? |
| [17:48:50] | iamlindoro_: | but anyway, retarded packagers adding flags that actually *aren't part of myth's configure* |
| [17:48:59] | iamlindoro_: | it's commented out for a reason |
| [17:49:05] | iamlindoro_: | yeah, you can/should/must remove it |
| [17:49:22] | iamlindoro_: | myth doesn't use libx264, but the flag is there in configure because that portion is imported from ffmpeg's configure |
| [17:49:32] | Dr^Mouse: | in fact, you want me to paste the flags here so you can double check theres nothing else wrong? |
| [17:49:47] | iamlindoro_: | but it's all block-quoted out-- but packagers start reading configure and randomly enabling things like silly people |
| [17:49:58] | sid3windr: | Dr^Mouse: you can't rebuild debian-multimedia's debs |
| [17:50:06] | sid3windr: | christian maintains that it builds fine for him |
| [17:50:16] | sid3windr: | remove --enable-x264 in debian/rules and try again |
| [17:50:23] | sid3windr: | or well, yea, what iamlindoro_ said ;) |
| [17:51:32] | iamlindoro_: | It'll build right if you have a version of libx264 installed that is in parity with myth's imported libavcodec/format |
| [17:51:39] | sid3windr: | yeah |
| [17:51:46] | iamlindoro_: | but if you have a version marginally newer or older... *hork* |
| [17:51:48] | sid3windr: | but libx264 also comes from his repository :p |
| [17:52:14] | sid3windr: | so I guess he himself has another one than the one on the repo, which kind of defeats the purpose |
| [17:52:19] | Dr^Mouse: | ok cheers guys. i'm gonna pop out for a cigarrette while that compiles (hopefully without errors) ill let you know how it goes. |
| [17:52:39] | iamlindoro_: | Someone should compel him to drop in here and get set straight |
| [17:52:50] | sid3windr: | he doesn't seem to want to listen |
| [17:52:52] | sid3windr: | ;) |
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| [17:53:03] | sid3windr: | or at least, I got him to get me to look into which libx264 I have installed |
| [17:53:05] | iamlindoro_: | so I hear |
| [17:53:09] | sid3windr: | but that was the end of communication |
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| [17:53:37] | iamlindoro_: | It's bad because the downstream stuff inherits the same problem |
| [17:53:57] | iamlindoro_: | I believe mythbuntu/ubuntu makes the same mistake |
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| [17:54:45] | sid3windr: | yeah I bet they're based off the debian-multimedia ones |
| [17:55:55] | iamlindoro_: | I think they are pretty much on their own now, but I would guess the build system is originally based off of that one |
| [17:56:39] | iamlindoro_: | Last time I looked into it fedora, debian, and ubuntu all enabled two or three flags that were useless and that one, which can be actively harmful |
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| [17:57:03] | iamlindoro_: | or at least a "blocker" |
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| [18:02:19] | sid3windr: | I like using packages but I wanted a non-stripped debug build and I couldn't just dpkg-buildpackage like it's supposed to work :) |
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| [18:08:18] | ** Dr^Mouse needs a faster server... ** | |
| [18:08:49] | Dr^Mouse: | I've always hated waiting for things to compile. Now if I can just win the lottery.... |
| [18:10:22] | _abbenormal: | lol im glad too see we still have dreamers around |
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| [18:11:12] | Dr^Mouse: | actually it would have had an upgrade recently, if I hadnt just had a pay cut :( |
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| [18:12:51] | Dr^Mouse: | I was planning to get a phenom 3-core black edition for my desktop, so the 2.8ghz athlon x2 in there atm would have been cascaded down to the server |
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| [18:15:54] | Dr^Mouse: | oh FFS! |
| [18:15:59] | Dr^Mouse: | dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libmp3lame.so.0 (used by debian/libmyth-0.21/usr/lib/libmythtv-0.21.so.0.21.0). |
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| [18:20:28] | iamlindoro_: | Think that's a package that's change its name |
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| [18:20:55] | iamlindoro_: | apt-cache search mp3lame should give you the replacement name, not sure if that will help |
| [18:21:18] | iamlindoro_: | libmp3lame-dev I *think* |
| [18:22:39] | Dr^Mouse: | ok... sorry to be a pain but what do i do with that. my experience with building my own debian packages is pretty limited. |
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| [18:25:53] | Rince: | libmp3lame0 (>= 3.98) |
| [18:25:58] | Rince: | at least on my system |
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| [18:26:36] | Rince: | the dev-package is mostly for the headers, not for the library itself |
| [18:26:55] | Dr^Mouse: | yeah thats right, it's installed (libmp3lame0 and libmp3lame-dev |
| [18:27:22] | Rince: | rince@crystalball:~$ dpkg -S /usr/lib/libmp3lame.so |
| [18:27:22] | Rince: | libmp3lame-dev: /usr/lib/libmp3lame.so |
| [18:27:25] | Rince: | hmm, interesting |
| [18:27:34] | Rince: | shouldn't be the -dev |
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| [18:31:08] | Dr^Mouse: | yeah i get the same. but: |
| [18:31:09] | Dr^Mouse: | # dpkg -S /usr/lib/libmp3lame.so.0 |
| [18:31:11] | Dr^Mouse: | libmp3lame0: /usr/lib/libmp3lame.so.0 |
| [18:34:23] | Rince: | well, that's ok |
| [18:34:29] | Dr^Mouse: | so how do I get past the error above? |
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| [18:47:59] | Rince: | Dr^Mouse: this is a strange error since you have all packages.. |
| [18:48:19] | Rince: | Dr^Mouse: do you make a "debuild" or how do you create the packages? |
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| [18:51:06] | Dr^Mouse: | Rince: tbh I just did an apt-get source mythtv-backend (using the debian-multimedia repo), then dpkg-buildpackage (after editing debian/rules) |
| [18:52:36] | Rince: | try a "debuild" instead of dpkg-buildpackage |
| [18:52:51] | Rince: | then it won't create a sourcepackage and I think it doesn't need to fill the dependencies again |
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| [19:02:27] | Dr^Mouse: | Rince: No, sorry, that does exactly the same |
| [19:02:34] | Dr^Mouse: | full output @ http://pastebin.com/d192b0d40 |
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| [19:22:59] | outlier: | Is there a good place to look for instructions on configuring mythweb & diskless server on a backend that has two network cards? |
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| [19:28:28] | gbee: | Can you be any more specific? There is a guide for configuring mythweb & diskless server on a backend that has three network cards in a beige case? Would that do? |
| [19:31:06] | outlier: | gbee: I dunno... my case is black. :-) I guess I missed that one googling around. |
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| [19:34:35] | quinten: | hi. i have a tivo with a service contract that is not yet expired... |
| [19:34:54] | quinten: | i'm wondering if i can set up my myth box to treat it as two more tuners |
| [19:35:02] | quinten: | and automatically pull down the recordings |
| [19:35:14] | quinten: | has anybody set up a project like that? |
| [19:37:01] | quinten: | i don't want to use the tivo interface to schedule anything, but i'd be willing to do that if someone has set up an automatic way to get the recordings seen by the myth box, too |
| [19:37:05] | sphery: | gbee: I don't think o_cee was objecting to G.A.N.T's being replaced by Terra or its not being redesigned for mythui, but was just commenting on your involving the UI to make something better than his theme possible (and seeing one of his most-visible contributions becoming outdated). Oh, and while someone on -dev list mentioned that the wakeonlan support is one of the most interesting new features of 0.22, many of us recognize ... |
| [19:37:12] | sphery: | ... how interesting/exciting the mythui changes are. ;) |
| [19:38:01] | outlier: | gbee: Could you maybe give me a pointer to that guide you mentioned? |
| [19:39:40] | poodyp1: | outlier: I believe he was being sarcastic |
| [19:40:19] | poodyp1: | though I may have spoiled the fun by saying that |
| [19:41:42] | outlier: | poodyp1: I'm sure, but I was hoping he really did know of such a thing. I've got a backend sitting on two networks; the backend needs to run dhcp and diskless server on one network, but not the other. |
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| [19:43:16] | poodyp1: | as a gateway? or it's just on two separate networks? |
| [19:43:45] | sphery: | outlier: likely your best bet is to look for a distro-specific guide as most of that configuration is more distro-related than myth related |
| [19:43:53] | outlier: | At the moment, it's just on two networks. |
| [19:43:59] | sphery: | i.e. for *buntu look on the Ubuntu wiki, etc. |
| [19:44:10] | justinh: | ah so that'd be why I couldn't log into my ebay account. it wasn't mine for a spell. ffs |
| [19:44:59] | outlier: | sphery: Thanks – I'll look there. My bad for trying something I don't know how to do yet. |
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| [19:47:52] | sphery: | outlier: if you never try, you never learn... time for me to get back to trying my major (non-Myth) system configuration change in progress... |
| [19:48:10] | Dr^Mouse: | AAAAAAARGH! All that, and it STILL isnt openning port 6543 |
| [19:48:27] | outlier: | sphery: Good luck |
| [19:48:53] | poodyp1: | don't worry about asking about things you don't know, that's what this channel is for, just some things belong here and some belong in #debian or #gentoo etc |
| [19:49:04] | Dr^Mouse: | im gonna have to give up for a bit. maybe even restore my backup from before the upgrade. |
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| [19:50:50] | ** Dr^Mouse is glad he actually took a backup for a change ** | |
| [19:52:19] | quinten: | i did find this plugin: mythtivo. has anybody used this lately? the last version seems to be for mythtv version .11 |
| [19:52:44] | justinh: | pfft |
| [19:52:48] | sphery: | outlier: good luck to you, also :) |
| [19:52:54] | justinh: | safe to say it'll be junk now |
| [19:55:15] | quinten: | justinh: directed to mythtivo? |
| [19:56:16] | justinh: | yup |
| [19:56:48] | GreyFoxx: | "Now showing" on a Tivo is the list of current recordings ? |
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| [20:00:12] | gbee: | sphery: I know o_cee was joking :) I just felt it was fair to expain why GANT wasn't getting the attention it probably deserves |
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| [20:01:57] | sphery: | gbee: cool... couldn't tell, and I wanted to make sure you realize that your efforts are very much appreciated :) |
| [20:02:03] | quinten: | yes indeed |
| [20:02:04] | justinh: | if a poll was ever drawn (God forbid!) I think GANT would be first for the chop. good job it's not a democracy |
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| [20:02:59] | quinten: | a few days a week we have three shows on at once... |
| [20:03:20] | quinten: | and i haven't been able to sell our tivo, so it occurs to me that it makes more sense to keep using it than to buy an extra tuner |
| [20:03:30] | gbee: | sphery: I've got you to remind me, daily :p |
| [20:03:35] | quinten: | oh well though, maybe i can hack something myself |
| [20:03:37] | sphery: | I used to use G.A.N.T. (before it lost the final period to support a broken "OS") when I had a 4:3 setup... Guess that's further proof I'm completely lacking artistic/graphical talent. |
| [20:04:07] | sphery: | gbee: yeah, I'm just saying what others forget to say when they take your work for granted :) |
| [20:04:14] | gbee: | I'm guessing a lot of people use it simply because it's the default and they don't know better |
| [20:04:16] | justinh: | well, bang goes another 2 hours trying to get my hacks to work. I need to study |
| [20:05:55] | sphery: | quinten: likely the cost of another tuner ($50 for a US ATSC (HDTV) tuner or possibly less for a PVR-x50) is significantly lower than the cost of the time involved in hacking the TiVo. Not to mention the fact that /you/ would have to manually schedule any conflicts to record on the TiVo. |
| [20:06:06] | sphery: | Myth without sufficient tuners is a waste. |
| [20:06:33] | justinh: | myth without any tuners is a waste too IMHO but it never stops people trying |
| [20:06:51] | sphery: | Myth done right is TV Freedom. |
| [20:07:11] | sphery: | agreed |
| [20:07:27] | justinh: | still, at least nobody is bound to a limited number & type of tuners :) |
| [20:07:41] | quinten: | how many tuners do most people use? i have two |
| [20:07:47] | justinh: | three (fifteen) |
| [20:07:48] | sphery: | I have 4 |
| [20:07:59] | quinten: | via the hdhomerun. hard to justify another $150 for a second hdhr |
| [20:08:14] | sphery: | quinten: $50 for an Avermedia A180? |
| [20:08:15] | gbee: | well that might slowly be changing, I don't think that the focus of myth is going to stop being TV anytime soon, but the streaming of videos and hopefully music/video as well is a step towards something more rounded |
| [20:08:16] | justinh: | we record way more than we watch but it's better than wasting even half an hour grazing |
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| [20:08:54] | quinten: | ah, that's a bit less than when i last looked |
| [20:09:17] | gbee: | I've 6 tuners total and one capture card (which isn't used ATM) |
| [20:09:21] | quinten: | might go that route at some point, meanwhile i have 5 more months on my tivo contract, and spending time hacking it isn't wasted time to me :) |
| [20:09:24] | justinh: | heh. I remember my first ever TV tuner card. Cost me a lot more than they cost now |
| [20:09:37] | justinh: | and it never even fsking worked properly |
| [20:09:38] | gbee: | each of those tuners is capable of recording ~5 channels at once |
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| [20:09:52] | sphery: | justinh: my parents were visiting and wanted to watch TV... I showed them where to find the recordings and they said, "Can we just watch TV?" So, I started LiveTV for them and went to do some work. I came back 10 minutes later and saw them watching the last 20 minutes of an episode of CSI--an episode which existed (in its entirety) in my recordings list... |
| [20:10:24] | justinh: | heh, I've tried to sell the concept of a pVR to my parents for years |
| [20:10:27] | quinten: | gbee: via subchannels? or |
| [20:10:49] | justinh: | quinten: no, by the virtue of several TV channels being broadcast on the same frequency in the UK :) |
| [20:11:12] | quinten: | okay, i think that's what i'm calling a subchannel, in the us parlance |
| [20:11:22] | gbee: | or everywhere else in the world aside from the US |
| [20:11:23] | sphery: | justinh: the worst part is that my parents got a dish network DVR before I started using Myth... They use it like a (very complex) VCR... They only record shows once ever couple of months or so. They just don't understand how they should use it (no matter how much I try to explain it to them) |
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| [20:11:42] | justinh: | yeah my inlaws see their PVR as nothing more than a VCR |
| [20:11:51] | justinh: | they have no concept of planning |
| [20:12:10] | justinh: | wonder if their HDD is full yet |
| [20:12:30] | justinh: | I've seen some nasty PVR UIs in my time but their Sony is THE worst I've ever seen |
| [20:12:36] | sphery: | they also get hung up on the idea of, "Well, it's /news/, so it doesn't make any sense to record it because I'm not going to watch it in a week..." |
| [20:13:13] | gbee: | quinten: yes and no, in the US those 'subchannels' are generally low bitrate inferior stuff (I'm told), whereas everywhere else they are generally equals – e.g. top channels/broadcasters share frequencies |
| [20:13:20] | justinh: | I tend not to watch news. I listen to the radio in the morning & on the way home. Same stories in more detail on the radio :) |
| [20:13:31] | sphery: | I try to explain that you're recording it so you can watch it on your schedule--possibly 30-seconds after it starts airing or 2 hours later--but they still think it's wrong |
| [20:14:04] | justinh: | sphery: do they think that watching TV without commercials is like stealing? ;) |
| [20:14:16] | gbee: | e.g. apparently subchannels for a lot of US stuff consists of community and state/government info channels |
| [20:14:28] | justinh: | the Simpsons episode I watched yesterday made a reference to the TV exec who coined that |
| [20:15:43] | sphery: | quinten: gbee is right... In the US, with OTA, multirec (ability to record multiple shows on different subchannels on the same multiplex from the same hardware) is mostly useless (as you're unlikely to record from the 24-hr weather subchannel associated with your local CBS affiliate or whatever). If you have cable (and are lucky enough that your provider sends the channels unencrypted), you may get some benefit from multirec. |
| [20:16:14] | justinh: | 24 hour weather channels? wtf? |
| [20:16:31] | sphery: | justinh: they don't think that... and I missed yesterday's new Simpsons because of a stupid sports overrun (NASCAR race)... |
| [20:16:38] | quinten: | gbee: yeah it's not used very well yet. for me, a few of the subchannels are non-hd versions of the network channel, etc |
| [20:16:41] | gbee: | because you just have to know what the weather outside is like at 3am |
| [20:17:01] | sphery: | yeah, in the US subchannels are done "because they can", not with any thought as to whether or not they would be useful... |
| [20:17:10] | iamlindoro_: | for those of us who live in windowless hovels this is a boon |
| [20:17:22] | justinh: | heck, the times I've been in florida & bad storms were looming the power in my hotel was seldom on long enough to be able to watch TV |
| [20:17:26] | quinten: | i think there may be a little overlap on my cable, i can't remember channels off the top of my head though |
| [20:17:42] | sphery: | I have 2 channels (CBS and NBC affiliates) that have their "real" channel and also include a low-bitrate 24-hour local weather subchannel |
| [20:17:47] | quinten: | i get a few premium channels for free because they figure digital customers are payign for higher-priced cable :) |
| [20:18:01] | justinh: | sphery: you guys could so easily have had mheg instead :) |
| [20:18:03] | gbee: | 95% of the time I could probably get away with two tuners |
| [20:18:04] | quinten: | i'm pretty sure those are sub-channels of a regular network channel though |
| [20:18:19] | justinh: | gbee: ahh but the last 5% is critical ;) |
| [20:18:43] | gbee: | 3 of my tuners are in my dev machine, so though I lumped them in with the total that's not strictly an accurate picture |
| [20:18:56] | justinh: | I still get conflicts now & again with 3 tuners divided into 5 simultaneous recordings each |
| [20:18:59] | quinten: | the problem for me is that the fiancee loves those 2 hour reality shows that air in primetime |
| [20:19:15] | justinh: | get a new fiancee :P |
| [20:19:16] | gbee: | of those in the production machine, 2 are DVB-T and the other is DVB-S (mostly for the HD channels) |
| [20:19:16] | quinten: | so the few interesting shows i want to watch are conflicted out |
| [20:19:18] | sphery: | justinh: actually, when the weather is bad in florida, they cut into the regularly scheduled programming to put on weather stuff... If I had a nickel for every show I missed a portion of because they figured I was too stupid/lazy/... to be trusted to change to their weather subchannel... |
| [20:19:36] | justinh: | eep |
| [20:19:38] | quinten: | the solution now is to watch one show in realtime, as the tv has a QAM tuner |
| [20:20:29] | quinten: | i can't find an a180 for less than $80 |
| [20:20:31] | justinh: | what I found quite disturbing was the fact the hotel staff didn't tell the guests anything about what to do in the event of a hurricane etc, this came to mind when I was driving around & saw signs signifying evacuation routes |
| [20:20:33] | sphery: | quinten: I will guarantee that getting a new fiance will cost you a /lot/ more than getting another tuner--even getting another HDHomeRun :) |
| [20:20:47] | quinten: | heh |
| [20:20:57] | iamlindoro_: | But just think of how much better the next one might be |
| [20:21:05] | quinten: | oh that's why i watch my show in realtime :) she's still not sold on this whole mythtv thing |
| [20:21:07] | iamlindoro_: | This is my general logic from changing girlfriends |
| [20:21:12] | iamlindoro_: | s/from/for/ |
| [20:21:17] | justinh: | figured that if it was a regular enough occurrence to need road signs, maybe they'd be a little bit more clued up |
| [20:21:51] | justinh: | I'm still trying to wean my wife off her soaps |
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| [20:22:08] | justinh: | got her watching up to an hour of documentaries a week now :) |
| [20:22:39] | sphery: | wow... only an hour--and you guys have much better documentaries in the UK, what with the BBC and all\ |
| [20:22:42] | justinh: | monday night is still Emmerdale/Coronation St/Eastenders marathon night though |
| [20:22:47] | justinh: | without ads.. |
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| [20:23:03] | justinh: | they're not _that_ good either |
| [20:23:03] | ** GreyFoxx has 2 A180's sitting on a shelf right now :) ** | |
| [20:23:12] | GreyFoxx: | think they ran $90CDN each at the time I got them |
| [20:23:27] | justinh: | Horizon is a shadow of its former self :-\ |
| [20:24:00] | quinten: | yeah, it's actually just one day a week that i bother with watching realtime, just to watch Chuck |
| [20:24:34] | sphery: | I was thinking of buying 2 or more A180's as "spares" to sit on my shelf for when my HD-3000's start to go out. |
| [20:24:49] | gbee: | the weekly type investigative/topical documentaries aren't so good anymore, but the BBC Nature stuff is still top draw |
| [20:25:08] | sphery: | Too bad, they're not on sale at newegg, now... Were $50 a couple weeks ago. |
| [20:25:22] | sphery: | will have to wait for the next sale (they do it every month or 2) |
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| [20:26:24] | justinh: | can't help but think it's me who's got brainy rather than doccos dumbing down though |
| [20:26:30] | sphery: | I love Nova on PBS, but anytime they collaborate with BBC it seems to be a whole different level of good. |
| [20:26:56] | justinh: | remember Horizon from when I was a kid.. maybe it's always been a bit light |
| [20:28:40] | sphery: | I have a show called "Planet Earth" I recorded from a local community-college PBS station in standard-def digital 480i (converted from original NTSC source from the 1970's). Every time I see it in the list, I wish it were the BBC Planet Earth in HDTV... |
| [20:29:48] | justinh: | heheheh |
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| [20:33:17] | sphery: | iamlindoro_: regarding your discussion of MV SG support in the dev channel, do you think it would be easier for users to configure if the "local" (non-SG) support were removed from MV? |
| [20:34:14] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: I think so, but For that to work there needs to be a way to stream a file *in* to a storage group from a frontend (metadata download) and a simple way of automatically doing the conversion. |
| [20:34:44] | sphery: | ahhh |
| [20:34:59] | sphery: | you should have someone write a patch to do that for you.. ;) |
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| [20:37:23] | ** iamlindoro_ looks expectantly at sphery ** | |
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| [20:38:30] | iamlindoro_: | WTF if wrong with people on the list, anyway? |
| [20:38:35] | iamlindoro_: | s/if/is/ |
| [20:38:51] | iamlindoro_: | If you don't want to follow people's terms, don't use their free stuff |
| [20:38:53] | iamlindoro_: | eff's sake |
| [20:39:45] | iamlindoro_: | Some people were severely underbeaten as children |
| [20:40:27] | dustybin: | :( |
| [20:40:52] | ** dustybin gives iamlindoro_ some chill pills ** | |
| [20:41:18] | iamlindoro_: | *eyes narrow* |
| [20:44:55] | jams: | taken out of context "* iamlindoro_ looks expectantly at sphery" looks a bit odd. |
| [20:45:05] | justinh: | let's all give entitlement culture a nice hug. A nice big warm and strong hug. And crush it to death |
| [20:45:24] | tony_ (tony_!n=tony@75-121-202-7.dyn.centurytel.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [20:45:35] | iamlindoro_: | jams: I'm wondering when he'll be done with my free patches to which I am totally entitled ;) |
| [20:46:44] | tony_: | fresh install of mythtv on linux mint 6. i get upnp backend not found. every fucking time on every distro. anyone have a clue? |
| [20:47:10] | ** dustybin checks to see if mythtv is still on 70% ** | |
| [20:47:10] | jams: | Didn't get that until reading some scrollback. For some reason that line just jumped out at me while switching desktops. |
| [20:47:13] | justinh: | try another distro? |
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| [20:47:56] | ** iamlindoro_ points tony_ at the channel rule about not swearing ** | |
| [20:49:10] | tony_: | even switched tv cards and same thing. is this not common? |
| [20:49:13] | justinh: | linux mint.. there's a new one |
| [20:49:36] | tony_: | nope, i just downloaded and installed the newest last night |
| [20:49:40] | quinten: | tony_: i think i remember you have to change a setting in myth setup to make upnp work |
| [20:49:51] | quinten: | get it to listen on a real ip addrtess, not just localhost |
| [20:49:55] | sphery: | iamlindoro_: There's a terms of use associated with those patches... You can only use them with authorized MythTV backends. |
| [20:50:13] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: Well those terms are stupid so thankfully I'm cool to ignore them |
| [20:50:55] | justinh: | another *buntu based distro? why? aaanyway.... |
| [20:51:08] | sphery: | tony_: UPnP backend not found is the expected behavior /before/ you configure the backend IP address info... If properly running mythtv-setup, it will then ask you for the required info, you type it in, and all works well. |
| [20:51:09] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: Also "The GPL has a clause that allows you to ignore it" was pretty hilarious |
| [20:51:14] | jams: | justinh- mint ? |
| [20:51:24] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: And demonstrated a painful lack of understanding of the quoted text |
| [20:51:26] | AndyCap: | iamlindoro_: uh, what? |
| [20:51:40] | justinh: | jams: http://www.linuxmint.com/ |
| [20:51:42] | sphery: | iamlindoro_: yeah, that clause explains why so many commercial companies choose to ignore the GPL. |
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| [20:52:05] | iamlindoro_: | AndyCap: exciting -users discussions about how they don't have to follow Hulu's terms of service |
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| [20:52:17] | odyssey: | hi ther |
| [20:52:19] | AndyCap: | oh my |
| [20:52:23] | iamlindoro_: | !seen ther |
| [20:52:23] | MythLogBot: | ther has not been seen here |
| [20:52:32] | odyssey: | :p |
| [20:52:38] | jams: | have seen it mentioned, but never paid much attention to it. |
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| [20:53:11] | iamlindoro_: | AndyCap: Many MANY hilarious gems in that thread |
| [20:53:17] | odyssey: | i'm looking for the coolest media center to hook up on my htpc.... which one should i choose? :p |
| [20:53:33] | justinh: | odyssey: whichever one you think is coolest of course |
| [20:53:45] | AndyCap: | odyssey: SubZero! |
| [20:53:48] | J-e-f-f-A: | d |
| [20:53:48] | J-e-f-f-A: | [15:53:17] <odyssey> i'm looking for the coolest media center to hook up on my htpc.... which one should i choose? :p |
| [20:53:48] | J-e-f-f-A: | [15:53:33] <justinh> odyssey: whichever one you think is coolest of course |
| [20:53:49] | J-e-f-f-A: | [15:53:45] <AndyCap> odyssey: SubZero! |
| [20:53:49] | J-e-f-f-A: | d |
| [20:53:50] | J-e-f-f-A: | [15:53:17] <odyssey> i'm looking for the coolest media center to hook up on my htpc.... which one should i choose? :p |
| [20:53:53] | J-e-f-f-A: | [15:53:33] <justinh> odyssey: whichever one you think is coolest of course |
| [20:53:55] | J-e-f-f-A: | [15:53:45] <AndyCap> odyssey: SubZero! |
| [20:53:57] | J-e-f-f-A: | d |
| [20:53:59] | J-e-f-f-A: | [15:53:17] <odyssey> i'm looking for the coolest media center to hook up on my htpc.... which one should i choose? :p |
| [20:53:59] | justinh: | there's an echo in here |
| [20:54:02] | J-e-f-f-A: | [15:53:33] <justinh> odyssey: whichever one you think is coolest of course |
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| [20:54:02] | iamlindoro_: | !trout J-e-f-f-A |
| [20:54:02] | ** MythLogBot slaps J-e-f-f-A with a trout on behalf of iamlindoro_... ** | |
| [20:54:12] | sphery: | So, sometimes when someone asks a question using, "Can I," when they mean, "May I," and people, it's funny to answer them in a way that points out the grammatical flaw. In http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2009-March/249888.html , there's a, "Can I," that's probably meant to be, "Is it possible," but even read as, "Can I" (meaning "Do I have the experience/skills/abilities to") it's a very valid question--though not one ... |
| [20:54:12] | AndyCap: | quite a bit it seems |
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| [20:54:14] | iamlindoro_: | bad kitty |
| [20:54:18] | sphery: | ... that we're likely to be able to answer. |
| [20:54:26] | sphery: | d/ and people' |
| [20:54:29] | odyssey: | i haven't tried mythtv, and generally i'm not really a linux guy, so ..... it really looks promising. i have a few questions though |
| [20:54:47] | justinh: | why not read the docs, then come back with any questions? |
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| [20:55:17] | justinh: | but fwiw if you've not used linux before I wouldn't recommend mythtv unless you're willing to learn some new tricks |
| [20:55:17] | sphery: | coolest media center would likely be one submerged in liquid helium... |
| [20:55:39] | AndyCap: | J-e-f-f-A: got a itchy paste finger today? :-P |
| [20:55:40] | sid3windr: | 0K would be the absolute coolest. |
| [20:56:06] | sphery: | true, but hard to attain--especially at the macro level |
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| [20:56:41] | justinh: | sphery: I hear some coolers are really very good these days :P |
| [20:56:53] | J-e-f-f-A: | AndyCap: No, picked up my mouse and it started doing all sorts of fun stuff, so I smacked it on the table, and that resulted... it's behaving now, but jeeze... |
| [20:57:30] | ** sphery fondly remembers the Nova episode, "Absolute Zero: The Conquest of Cold" and "Absolute Zero: The Race for Absolute Zero" ** | |
| [20:58:15] | odyssey: | justinh: well i'm using it a little on our aix at work, so i have used it a little, but i'm not too familar with the technical configurations yet |
| [20:58:34] | baxter_kylie: | Hi. If I have some changes I've applied to my mythvideo plugin and I want to test the waters on merging it back up where should I go to initiate that discussion? mythtv core development? or do plugins have their own support structure? |
| [20:58:38] | justinh: | put it this way mythtv is no point & click install |
| [20:58:53] | odyssey: | justinh: i have skimmed the wiki and docs, but can't really find if they answer my questions |
| [20:59:04] | AndyCap: | odyssey: and I doubt mythtv runs well on aix. |
| [20:59:18] | odyssey: | AndyCap: it shouldn't ;) |
| [20:59:19] | justinh: | baxter_kylie: it's going nowhere til you create a ticket & attach your patches to it. No point doing it for 0.21 either |
| [20:59:30] | GreyFoxx: | baxter_kylie: What sort of changes ? |
| [20:59:34] | AndyCap: | odyssey: you could try one of the purpose made distros like mythdora, knoppmyth, mythbuntu? |
| [20:59:53] | sphery: | baxter_kylie: you'll need to have a patch that works on the (current) trunk version of the MythTV plugin. If the MythTV plugin is not in SVN, it's a 3rd party plugin that's not supported by MythTV proper and you would have to talk to the plugin author/developer/maintainer. |
| [20:59:54] | odyssey: | maybe yes |
| [21:00:32] | sphery: | baxter_kylie: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ and look at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/mythplugins for the list of plugins (though now I think you mentioned MythVideo...) |
| [21:00:51] | sphery: | baxter_kylie: what changes? |
| [21:01:05] | odyssey: | is mythtv able to playback PAL content reversed to 24fps with a 4,5% pitch decrease, and is it able to playback smoothly at 24hz fullhd? |
| [21:01:19] | baxter_kylie: | GreyFoxx: DB changes, mostly so it's realitively small. Changing 'category' to many-to-many (tag-like structure) and storing some additional fields that I've found important (namely creation, update timestamps, & filesize). |
| [21:01:26] | odyssey: | in this case i'm just talking offline videos – not live content |
| [21:02:11] | sphery: | odyssey: MythTV can do timestretch, which plays back content at "other than real-time" anywhere from 0.5x realtime to 2.0x realtime in increments of 0.05x with appropriate pitch correction |
| [21:02:13] | quinten: | odyssey: it can if mplayer or vlc can, and no idea if the internal player can |
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| [21:02:33] | sphery: | odyssey: though you'd have to "manually configure it" |
| [21:02:44] | tony_: | ok, got it started and now the same thing as last install. i click "watch tv" and nothing, no error, no tv. wtf? |
| [21:02:58] | AndyCap: | odyssey: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/1778#comment:2 |
| [21:03:01] | quinten: | one thing i've found is that the online docs do not show how to do digital cable at all. that was very frustrating when i first tried to set up my machine |
| [21:03:07] | justinh: | and you didn't look in the logs, as usual eh tony_ ? |
| [21:03:11] | odyssey: | sphery: when you say appropriate pitch correction, do you then mean that it timestretches to keep the pitch, or has it the ability to change the pitch (which is needed for PAL DVD's)? |
| [21:03:14] | tony_: | is it so hard to write an app that doesn't use all the sql crap and just write as files? |
| [21:03:23] | justinh: | top tip: most problems' root causes can be found in mythtv's logs |
| [21:03:27] | AndyCap: | odyssey: dunno if it does inverse telecine properly for pal |
| [21:03:41] | sphery: | baxter_kylie: if it's a patch against trunk, it's probably worth creating a ticket/attaching the patch: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/TicketHowTo |
| [21:03:46] | justinh: | tony_: if you want to get help here, dissing the app isn't going to win you any sympathy |
| [21:03:46] | GreyFoxx: | tony_: doubtful that the SQL server has anything do do with watch tv not working |
| [21:03:51] | ** AndyCap isn't too concerned since 24fps sucks to begin with ** | |
| [21:03:56] | tony_: | i've looked at logs before and usually it's too cryptic or arbitrary to mean much |
| [21:03:58] | GreyFoxx: | consdering the SQL server must be working for you to get that far |
| [21:04:04] | odyssey: | AndyCap: pal does not use telecine... |
| [21:04:10] | justinh: | tony_: says you. we can help de-riddle log output |
| [21:04:11] | gbee: | tony_: sure, it would be slow as hell and wouldn't scale worth a damn, but it's possible |
| [21:04:28] | AndyCap: | odyssey: ah yes. |
| [21:04:38] | odyssey: | AndyCap: most pal content is progressive. if it's interlaced it will only be swapped fields as we don't need 30fps playback |
| [21:04:40] | quinten: | mythtv right now reminds me of mozilla project 7 years ago or so...needs lots of usability love, in a way that keeps the community alive |
| [21:04:48] | justinh: | odyssey: BS. PAL is interlaced |
| [21:05:03] | odyssey: | AndyCap: why do you think 24 fps sucks? all movies are recorded with 24fps |
| [21:05:05] | iamlindoro_: | by definition |
| [21:05:09] | tony_: | which logs. there's at least a dozen related ones i recall |
| [21:05:18] | AndyCap: | odyssey: yes, which is fail. |
| [21:05:20] | odyssey: | justinh: when it is, it's just swapped firelds |
| [21:05:21] | justinh: | in PAL countries, movies are played 1fps too fast :) |
| [21:05:22] | odyssey: | -r |
| [21:05:41] | GreyFoxx: | quinten: personally I disagree. I think there are only "small" usability stuff required, like hardware auto detection. But beyond that it's stability and error handling that need the most work |
| [21:05:48] | iamlindoro_: | I see it's the time of day when people who don't understand the app explain how it should work |
| [21:05:52] | iamlindoro_: | I'll be back when that's over |
| [21:05:57] | odyssey: | justinh: exactly! that's why we want to speed them down to proper framerate, as the pitch is increased as well |
| [21:05:58] | GreyFoxx: | and even then those problems are centered around specific areas |
| [21:06:03] | ** sphery hopes that MythTV doesn't get the same usability love that Firefox 3 got ** | |
| [21:06:04] | AndyCap: | iamlindoro_: sometime next week? |
| [21:06:13] | justinh: | odyssey: then you'll be looking for a different app entirely then |
| [21:06:18] | sphery: | FF3 and FFS are /very/ similar looking, after all |
| [21:06:19] | justinh: | mythtv can't do that |
| [21:06:21] | tony_: | can i get tvtime to use my hvr 1800 so i don't have to mess with all this over and over? |
| [21:06:36] | justinh: | tony_: I dunno. do you have it within you? |
| [21:06:36] | AndyCap: | odyssey: mythtv is probably not going to be a good fit for the die hard htpc crowd. |
| [21:06:40] | GreyFoxx: | might wanna ask that in #tvtime |
| [21:06:48] | GreyFoxx: | they'd know better than we would what their app does |
| [21:06:59] | jams: | sphery- that is a shared concern. |
| [21:07:09] | jams: | re: usability love |
| [21:07:12] | baxter_kylie: | sphery: I guess I am more or less trying to ascertain if it was worth going to the trouble to package up the changes I've made to my own installation into a proper patch and test against SVN. Eg, whether or not such changes would even be welcome. |
| [21:07:14] | odyssey: | AndyCap: why not? it seems a good app |
| [21:07:15] | justinh: | AFAIK tvtime only works with analogue tuners |
| [21:07:20] | gbee: | GreyFoxx: speaking of which, have you given that any thought? It would be my next project if only I could put mythui to bed |
| [21:07:24] | AndyCap: | on a related note, do you pal users run X at 50hz, or custom modelines for playback? |
| [21:07:26] | quinten: | GreyFoxx: i suppose that's what i mean. a basic install takes a lot of knowledge and ability to troubleshoot, which is probably unnecessary. there are other big bugs though, like this remote unresponsiveness bug that's been plaguing me and lots of other folks for months now |
| [21:07:43] | odyssey: | justinh: well, on windows we have a very nice filter that can do it on the fly, which is quite cool. it's called reclock |
| [21:07:45] | AndyCap: | odyssey: the hard core htpc folks usually just want 1 thing. high quality upscaling / video processing. :P |
| [21:07:48] | GreyFoxx: | quinten: What version of myth? And if trunk, what version of QT ? |
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| [21:07:57] | odyssey: | AndyCap: oh well heh |
| [21:07:59] | quinten: | GreyFoxx: recently i submitted a bug for myth not handling an hd homerun being disconnected from the network gracefully, and it was rejected. |
| [21:07:59] | sphery: | yeah, I'm only using firefox 3 with the hope that someone will undo all the broken stuff they did to it... If not, I may have to use another browser. (and I /really/ hope it's not Chrome) |
| [21:08:03] | justinh: | odyssey: you could hack myth to do it no doubt |
| [21:08:06] | GreyFoxx: | gbee: Nothing concrete no |
| [21:08:16] | quinten: | GreyFoxx: .21-fixes, latest |
| [21:08:28] | GreyFoxx: | quinten: Ok then it's not the issue I was thinking about |
| [21:08:35] | tony_: | anyone work on mythtv here? i'd suggest a lightweight option for those who just want to watch tv and nothing else |
| [21:08:40] | gbee: | AndyCap: used to run at 50Hz when using s-video and an old CRT TV, but now I use HDMI and trust the EDID/TV to do the right thing, and it does |
| [21:08:49] | justinh: | tony_: I'd suggest you stop grinding an axe here |
| [21:08:56] | AndyCap: | gbee: and what's the right thing? |
| [21:09:05] | iamlindoro_: | almost everyone talking right now works on myth to one extent or another |
| [21:09:08] | justinh: | if you just want to watch livetv, use something else |
| [21:09:10] | sphery: | baxter_kylie: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/GoToDev and the MythVideo developer's first name is his IRC nick (not mentioning it so I don't unnecessarily call him back) |
| [21:09:15] | iamlindoro_: | and none of us listen to suggestions that don't come with patches |
| [21:09:39] | GreyFoxx: | quinten: If it was rejected there was likely a reason. Not knowing the ticket # offhand I couldn |
| [21:09:43] | GreyFoxx: | t even guess what that was |
| [21:09:45] | sphery: | baxter_kylie: he's the one who could say for sure... I know he had some plans for doing some of that stuff, but he may also have some code started or he may find yours to be just the start he needed... |
| [21:09:59] | baxter_kylie: | sphery: peachy. gratz. |
| [21:10:17] | tony_: | thanks all. got tvtime installed and working but no sound now. i'll ask in #tvtime |
| [21:10:18] | justinh: | AndyCap: I run X at 50Hz :) |
| [21:10:25] | GreyFoxx: | tony_: have fun |
| [21:10:37] | GreyFoxx: | sound is likely a minor thing |
| [21:10:40] | iamlindoro_: | Shame about that whole TVTime doesn't use digital tuners things |
| [21:10:52] | justinh: | is it? :) |
| [21:10:58] | iamlindoro_: | no, not really a shame :) |
| [21:11:00] | iamlindoro_: | but true |
| [21:11:13] | quinten: | GreyFoxx: it was a "wontfix"--basically users should know how to keep their network plugged in, no need to gracefulyl handle it when they don't |
| [21:11:14] | gbee: | AndyCap: whatever it is that it's doing :) X is using 60Hz, the TV does it's magic to turn that into a perfect picture |
| [21:11:23] | iamlindoro_: | So that fancy digital tuner + hardware encoder being used in framegrabber mode in tvtime... yummy |
| [21:11:46] | AndyCap: | heh. I'll see what happens if I run X at 60 or so and play 50hz. |
| [21:11:48] | gbee: | the TV expects 60Hz over HDMI – I have to assume that feeding it 50Hz would be sub-optimal |
| [21:12:00] | justinh: | AndyCap: tearing, if you can't sync to vblanks |
| [21:12:06] | quinten: | GreyFoxx: i realize limited developer resources, but i think there may not be the recognition of usability bugs |
| [21:12:33] | gbee: | quinten: no, you're wrong, the devs are _well_ aware of the many issues |
| [21:12:47] | AndyCap: | justinh: or some jerkiness if I can? or do you mean that syncing to vblank is out of the question with 50hz content and 60hz X |
| [21:12:50] | quinten: | no big deal, but i think lots of folks are using hd homerun, and it shold be a more pleasant experience |
| [21:12:56] | justinh: | quinten: we have a problem in that people tend to say "MUHHHHHHHH it's broken" but they never come up with any viable solutions.. or infact any kind of information on how it might be done otherwise |
| [21:13:02] | AndyCap: | sounds like I need to look at xrandr |
| [21:13:12] | gbee: | but for every 500 people willing to point out the problems, only 1 is willing to do any work to change things |
| [21:13:15] | justinh: | no plans, no descriptions, no mockups.. just IT SUCKS!" |
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| [21:13:30] | sphery: | quinten: with a patch attached, it would likely be a more pleasant experience for users because getting the functionality you want would be a more pleasant experience for the devs |
| [21:13:32] | quinten: | yeah i know, like i said, i understand developer frustrations too |
| [21:13:49] | jams: | gbee did you mention your next project would be tuner detection? |
| [21:13:54] | quinten: | it's hard to start developing on a new system |
| [21:14:00] | justinh: | it's frustrating because if everybody spent as much time thinking how things could be improved & pitching them the right way... we'd all get along a lot better |
| [21:14:11] | quinten: | just annoying when your bug is rejected, rather than saying "submit a patch" |
| [21:14:18] | sphery: | quinten: which is why it's so wonderful that computers are dirt cheap these days :) |
| [21:14:36] | gbee: | quinten: that assumes that the devs have access to all the hardware combinations that the user base does – they don't and no-one else pays for that sort of outlay either |
| [21:14:37] | sphery: | (i.e. one for "production" running -fixes and one for development running trunk) |
| [21:14:42] | AndyCap: | Is nvidia ion is still a pie in the sky? |
| [21:14:53] | sphery: | AndyCap: yeah |
| [21:14:54] | iamlindoro_: | yes |
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| [21:15:15] | AndyCap: | hmm, I need an interrim solution then |
| [21:15:27] | sphery: | vdpau isn't yet a solution, either, though ;) |
| [21:15:38] | justinh: | been on both sides of the fence personally – I created a bug ticket which got unceremoniously closed once upon a time & was left thinking "BAH.. bloody arrogant ****ing developer". Got the idea eventually though :) |
| [21:15:42] | jackson__: | I read that the first ion will be around the end of March and will be like a pizza box desktop. |
| [21:15:42] | gbee: | jams: hardware detection in general yeah, but that's purely on my wishlist at this point, haven't given any thought as to where I'd begin and just what is practical |
| [21:15:42] | AndyCap: | sphery: well, that's just software so I can always update |
| [21:16:05] | AndyCap: | hal. :P |
| [21:16:12] | quinten: | it is annoying because clearly the developer has enough time to quickly close your bug :) |
| [21:16:16] | gbee: | quinten: we've never rejected a genuine bug report :) |
| [21:16:41] | quinten: | ah, now that's a challenge |
| [21:17:06] | gbee: | closing a ticket takes <1min, reviewing a patch can take anywhere from 15 minutes to hours, writing fixes can take from 30 minutes to months |
| [21:17:10] | justinh: | maybe it'd help if there was an example of a good bug report kept somewhere |
| [21:17:25] | justinh: | I've never submitted one so I wouldn't know :) |
| [21:17:35] | quinten: | user-to-user support channel. .:. http://mythtv.org |
| [21:17:43] | AndyCap: | gbee: hah, that reminds me of http://78.46.64.79/policy.avi |
| [21:18:20] | quinten: | http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6131 |
| [21:18:31] | quinten: | if there are suggestions on improving the bug report, i'm happy to make them |
| [21:18:35] | quinten: | the changes, that is |
| [21:19:01] | gbee: | we'll generally act on 'invalid' tickets relatively quickly since otherwise the 'in' pile just grows to unmanagable levels |
| [21:19:04] | jams: | gbee- ok, please let me know when you get to that point. Right now I have tuner detection done outside of myth, but displayed within the mythui. I plan on expanding the current detection, but of course would like to get these changes moved to myth instead of external. |
| [21:19:06] | sphery: | quinten: you do know how to fix the broken *buntu reliance on NetworkManager, don't you (wake up, iamlindoro_ ) |
| [21:19:36] | ** iamlindoro_ wonders if he has to re-explain that fix every time-- doesn't sphery have the mailing list archive memorized? ** | |
| [21:19:48] | sphery: | quinten: though, even if Myth didn't give up on HDHomerun at that point, mythbackend would not start properly without the network |
| [21:19:48] | iamlindoro_: | anyway, sphery is correct, that's not a myth bug, ergo the invalid |
| [21:19:56] | iamlindoro_: | ubuntu 8.10 has broken networking |
| [21:19:58] | justinh: | sphery: er.. use a different distro? :D |
| [21:20:03] | sphery: | quinten: i.e. it's /far/ more than just the hdhr that would be affected |
| [21:20:06] | sphery: | justinh: that one works :) |
| [21:20:08] | quinten: | well i do |
| [21:20:19] | quinten: | but myth starts fine even if network is slow |
| [21:20:23] | quinten: | and then hdhr didn't |
| [21:20:31] | quinten: | ergo, from user's point of view, myth is to blame |
| [21:20:37] | iamlindoro_: | and yet it's not. |
| [21:20:41] | sphery: | iamlindoro_: better than remembering the the archive, I remember who posted each post on the archive so I can convince them to explaing the answers over and over :) |
| [21:20:51] | quinten: | i realize it can be fixed in many different ways, but one is to have myth tv fix it. |
| [21:20:52] | gbee: | and it's not a bug because the configuration is unsupported – a bug would be a problem occuring with a supported configuration, that's the difference between a bug and a feature request |
| [21:21:33] | iamlindoro_: | myth relies on the network and any required services to be up before the backend-- sounds like an issue to take up with your packager, and I mean that sincerely |
| [21:21:41] | justinh: | why should mythtv fix bugs inherent in a distro's architecture? |
| [21:21:42] | quinten: | yes i agree it's a feature request--graceful handling of network failure |
| [21:21:56] | gbee: | it seems to be a hard concept for a lot of people to get their heads around, but it's a fairly standard definition in the software engineering world |
| [21:21:58] | sphery: | gbee: Myth doesn't work properly on my system when I boot into runlevel 1, which (on my system) is configured as single-user, no network mode... When will that be fixed. ;) |
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| [21:22:09] | iamlindoro_: | quinten: Well if it's a feature request, the project policy is that feature requests without patches get closed invalid |
| [21:22:46] | quinten: | that's not a user-friendly policy, but i am aware that there are probably resource considerations that come with that |
| [21:22:57] | sphery: | quinten: really, all the *buntu users who are affected by *buntu's decision to rely on a GUI applet that requires X to start the network should complain to Ubuntu packagers to make them fix their broken configuration |
| [21:23:27] | gbee: | quinten: closing a ticket doesn't mean that we wouldn't like to see a feature, but simply that we don't have the time to work on it or it's low priority on our own wishlists |
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| [21:23:29] | quinten: | sphery: yeah, i just uninstalled it and installed dhcpd-client |
| [21:23:42] | quinten: | but most users lack that knowledge |
| [21:24:03] | iamlindoro_: | It's not myth's responsibility to account for broken distros |
| [21:24:10] | gbee: | were we to permit wishlist items in the ticket system we'd be drowning in tickets, unable to triage them fast enough or get any work done in between triage |
| [21:24:18] | quinten: | it also took me a awhile to realize why livetv wasn't working |
| [21:24:21] | gbee: | bugs would go overlooked etc |
| [21:24:34] | sphery: | quinten / iamlindoro_ : so, here's iamlindoro_'s post that mentions the issue: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/370643#370643 |
| [21:25:04] | sphery: | felt guilty for not mentioning it (now I have it in my IRC history as well as my browser/mail history, so I can find it wherever I'll need it :) |
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| [21:26:04] | FPSDavid: | All of a sudden one of my tuner cards is making blank recordings, even though I haven't rebooted the system and the card looks properly setup in the backend settings. |
| [21:26:16] | sphery: | iamlindoro_: though I did have to modify the time zone code to account for Red-Hat brokenness as well as NIS (which, IMHO, is intrinsically broken) :) |
| [21:26:26] | quinten: | ah, i didn't realize that there was a history to my bug report |
| [21:27:05] | sphery: | quinten: so, take it up with Ubuntu and get them to fix their configuration |
| [21:27:09] | iamlindoro_: | not history so much as "known brokenness in the distro" |
| [21:27:33] | iamlindoro_: | The network manager applet is a great idea for wireless, but an awful idea for any sort of server |
| [21:27:33] | quinten: | i wonder if there's a way to get users who can't program to manage feature requests and do bug triage |
| [21:27:42] | sphery: | IIRC, they said, "a desktop system won't be running services so the use of Network Manager is appropriate" Ubuntu users need to convince them otherwise. |
| [21:27:59] | justinh: | quinten: there's already a great way of managing feature requests |
| [21:28:08] | justinh: | the wiki has a section or ten devoted to them |
| [21:28:14] | justinh: | and yes, people DO read them |
| [21:28:40] | justinh: | some of the features people request are actually feasible, if they're not already possible :) |
| [21:28:41] | sphery: | iamlindoro_: The Network Manager applet done properly--with a non-GUI backend and a GUI frontend--would be a great idea for wireless or a server, but why would GNOME developers go to the trouble? |
| [21:28:44] | iamlindoro_: | How would one "manage" them? They get closed or someone writes the patches, and everyone who *can* contribute to myth generally has a list as long as their arm of things they have lined up to do for their *own* enjoyment |
| [21:29:01] | jduggan: | does the XBOX 360 HDVD drive happen to work in linux, anyone know? someone has just given me one randomly |
| [21:29:08] | justinh: | iamlindoro_: send them to the wiki :) |
| [21:29:11] | AndyCap: | sphery: it does have a non gui backend, just not a non-gui frontend that is very useful |
| [21:29:12] | sphery: | quinten: I happen to know someone ( iamlindoro_ ) who implemented a feature request for a user... |
| [21:29:26] | iamlindoro_: | I have 10–15 things I keep saying "Gah, I need to get to that!" and a half dozen moderately sized patches in trac that those 10–15 things rely on |
| [21:29:34] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: Whoah, don't sell me out! |
| [21:30:04] | sphery: | AndyCap: so why doesn't *buntu use the non-GUI backend to configure the network at startup rather than waiting for the GUI applet to configure the network after X (which should be one of the last apps started) starts? |
| [21:30:10] | FPSDavid: | anyone help me out? |
| [21:30:17] | justinh: | hey just direct people with wishlists to me. they'll get bored waiting long before I lift a finger |
| [21:30:21] | AndyCap: | sphery: hehe, file a bug report. :P harr harr |
| [21:30:26] | sphery: | quinten: oh, and I should say, "Because he found the idea to be useful/interesting /to him/" :) |
| [21:30:43] | sphery: | AndyCap: so it would be possible for them to do it that way? |
| [21:30:45] | FPSDavid: | nothing should have changed at all, yet my HD card is recording 0B for a whole show, i.e. blank |
| [21:30:58] | sphery: | if so, then I can /not/ understand why they chose to do it the way they did |
| [21:31:01] | AndyCap: | sphery: but sure, it should start the network earlier if possible, fedora 10 seems to do it, but I haven't looked much at it for the server side |
| [21:31:01] | quinten: | i understand, but there is a useful distinction between wishlist bugs that stop you from using myth at all, and those that don't |
| [21:31:05] | justinh: | FPSDavid: is it still connected to the antenna? |
| [21:31:07] | iamlindoro_: | FPSDavid: HAve you rescanned your channels? |
| [21:31:16] | FPSDavid: | i havent touched it |
| [21:31:19] | AndyCap: | sphery: well, NM couldn't always do that, it's fairly recent |
| [21:31:21] | quinten: | i would never say to someone "this is your priority, fix it now" |
| [21:31:22] | FPSDavid: | and yes |
| [21:31:32] | iamlindoro_: | quinten: A bug which is not related to broken distro behavior is a bug, not a feature request |
| [21:31:36] | justinh: | quinten: it can be more insidious |
| [21:31:46] | FPSDavid: | the SD card works fine still, but the HD one, not so much |
| [21:31:52] | quinten: | i just disagreed with definining away the problem. but, now i do understand it more |
| [21:31:55] | justinh: | FPSDavid: aaaand the channel scanner.. ? She say? |
| [21:32:09] | iamlindoro_: | quinten: ie if the behavior you saw occurred regardless of distro, it'd be a bug-- but as you want a fix that accounts for the broken behavior of a single distro, it's a feature request |
| [21:32:29] | AndyCap: | sphery: if one were to hack mythfrontend to wait for the network to be available? :P |
| [21:32:30] | FPSDavid: | you're recommending rescanning channels? |
| [21:32:44] | justinh: | FPSDavid: stop mythbackend, and test the tuner again outside of mythtv |
| [21:32:50] | sphery: | ah, too be naive, again... http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2009-March/249895.html Like it's possible to remove /any/ setting from Myth--no matter how broken. ;) |
| [21:32:59] | FPSDavid: | how would i do that, justinh |
| [21:33:02] | quinten: | so myth may depend on networking being started, but it shouldn't depend on a valid ip address, which may be supplied later in many setups |
| [21:33:05] | sphery: | (OK, true, some people actually use that and it works on some videos, but it won't work on all) |
| [21:33:09] | justinh: | if you're getting 0 byte recordings I figure you have nothing to lose anyway ;) |
| [21:33:10] | FPSDavid: | i know how to stop the backened obviously, but testing it outside of mythtv? |
| [21:33:23] | AndyCap: | quinten: that didn't make much sense |
| [21:33:26] | justinh: | dvbutils, atsc scanning tools? yada yada yada? |
| [21:33:42] | iamlindoro_: | quinten: uhh, myth *must* have a working IP address to work, that's how the whole client/sever architecture works |
| [21:33:51] | iamlindoro_: | you'd have to throw every line of code out to do otherwise |
| [21:33:53] | quinten: | AndyCap: in other words, it seems a common ubuntu problem, but it's not limited to ubuntu. |
| [21:33:59] | FPSDavid: | i have no idea what those are, justinh |
| [21:34:04] | AndyCap: | quinten: uh, what? |
| [21:34:10] | high-rez: | jduggan: i didn't see anyone reply ( could be wrong), but yes it does work (you could just have plugged it in to figure that out though). |
| [21:34:11] | justinh: | FPSDavid: so do yourself a favour and find out :) |
| [21:34:27] | justinh: | FPSDavid: you DID test the tuner outside of mythtv before installing didn't you? |
| [21:34:41] | FPSDavid: | no |
| [21:34:48] | FPSDavid: | i installed it and it just worked |
| [21:34:54] | FPSDavid: | over a year ago |
| [21:34:57] | justinh: | :-S |
| [21:35:05] | quinten: | iamlindoro_: doesn't 127.0.0.1 work though? |
| [21:35:30] | justinh: | well, right now the position you're in – you dunno if mythtv is bad somehow or the tuner card. testing the tuner outside of mythtv will help you know which is at fault |
| [21:35:40] | sphery: | What? "There is no legal requirement to pay any license fees to rent a legally purchased DVD." @ http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2009-March/249896.html |
| [21:35:46] | quinten: | i'm sorry to start a flame war anyway, not trying to be confrontational |
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| [21:36:11] | FPSDavid: | i dont see how it could be mythtv's fault if nothing was updated |
| [21:36:39] | justinh: | myers |
| [21:36:41] | AndyCap: | sphery: I'm sure there's no law that says you have to pay for the privilege. :P |
| [21:37:00] | justinh: | like databases never break, disks never fail.. users never accidentally change anything... |
| [21:37:01] | FPSDavid: | im gonna go try and see if LiveTV works or if it gives an error or something |
| [21:37:02] | sphery: | quinten: TTBOMK, MythTV requires that the network on which MythTV will operate be functional when MythTV is started (or at least shortly thereafter). |
| [21:37:04] | gbee: | quinten: and I'm sorry if we seem rude etc, it's just a subject that we're all pretty tired of :) |
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| [21:37:12] | ** AndyCap is a bit puzzled by the "For Rental or Retail" dvd's in the shop. ** | |
| [21:37:26] | AndyCap: | I'd have thought the for rental part cost extra. |
| [21:37:39] | justinh: | different licensing :P |
| [21:37:58] | AndyCap: | but maybe they just let the allmighty computer track the number of rentals and pay |
| [21:38:01] | justinh: | different content, even :) |
| [21:38:02] | sphery: | quinten: Here's some more info about what Myth requires/assumes for network (funny enough, from the same thread): http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/370119#370119 |
| [21:38:20] | AndyCap: | justinh: heh, different content is hard when it's one disc |
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| [21:38:39] | justinh: | AndyCap: rental & retail copies are often different |
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| [21:39:05] | justinh: | oh wait. DUH. Now I see what you mean |
| [21:39:08] | AndyCap: | justinh: yes, and that's why I was surprised to see discs in my local store being labeled as both |
| [21:39:14] | justinh: | report them! |
| [21:39:18] | justinh: | report them!!!!!!!!!! MUHAHAHAHA |
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| [21:39:35] | AndyCap: | uhh, it looked quite legit |
| [21:39:47] | AndyCap: | and it's a chain store. so I dunno |
| [21:39:54] | FPSDavid: | the channels must have slightly moved or something |
| [21:39:56] | gbee: | there used to be a line on the mythtv.org website which described mythtv as "a project for developers, by developers", I'm not sure what happened to it, but it helped to manage user expectations |
| [21:40:01] | FPSDavid: | i could get some channels, but some of them couldn't lock |
| [21:40:11] | AndyCap: | gbee: probably some user on the wiki. :P |
| [21:40:20] | justinh: | rental agreements used to be ridiculous. I remember when one of my school friends' parents ran a video store |
| [21:40:34] | sphery: | I think the "computer count and pay appropriately" is how they do it mostly now... I think there were previously "different discs" (at least discs sold with different licenses) purchased. |
| [21:41:02] | AndyCap: | sphery: then some ****** figured out there was extra profit in selling forced commercials on all dvds |
| [21:41:09] | FPSDavid: | does a TV find channels easier than MythTV or something? since the channels that can't lock in MythTV still work on the regular TV/cable... |
| [21:41:12] | sphery: | but I'm pretty sure you have to have a license to rent that disc to another as you do /not/ buy the content, but buy a license to watch the content |
| [21:41:18] | AndyCap: | FPSDavid: depends on your card. |
| [21:41:34] | justinh: | FPSDavid: maybe your antenna got moved... maybe the feed is bad |
| [21:41:35] | FPSDavid: | so channel scan = fix, most likely? |
| [21:41:52] | sphery: | AndyCap: yeah, that makes more sense than my theory that they figured out pressing different discs cost them more |
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| [21:41:55] | justinh: | maybe everything changed when they turned analogue off in your area |
| [21:42:16] | FPSDavid: | didnt they delay that shit again? |
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| [21:42:18] | AndyCap: | sphery: heh, yours is a less evil explanation though |
| [21:42:21] | justinh: | or maybe they just moved everything in readiness for analogue being switched off |
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| [21:42:42] | justinh: | FPSDavid: only the mandatory date apparently. Broadcasters have already started to switch, so I read somewhere |
| [21:42:45] | AndyCap: | wonder what they charge for the privilege of being able to rent out a disc |
| [21:42:54] | FPSDavid: | yeah, its possible |
| [21:43:00] | FPSDavid: | it was working thursday night, then not friday night |
| [21:43:10] | FPSDavid: | wait, no |
| [21:43:13] | FPSDavid: | last friday, then not this friday |
| [21:43:15] | sphery: | AndyCap: I know that there was a suit against redbox because someone wanted something like 80% of the rental cost |
| [21:43:29] | sphery: | http://www.selfservice.org/article_4400_23.php |
| [21:43:33] | AndyCap: | greed is good. :P |
| [21:43:37] | sphery: | http://www.insideredbox.com/interesting-comme . . . sal-lawsuit/ |
| [21:44:57] | justinh: | I remember the last time I was in a DVD rental shop. Oh, the pain. So many cases but FA to watch |
| [21:45:06] | sphery: | well said... |
| [21:45:57] | AndyCap: | heh, last time I was in a rental shop I bought a budget dvd instead. |
| [21:46:14] | FPSDavid: | for Comcast, I set Cable, then QAM-256, right? |
| [21:46:37] | AndyCap: | incidentally the local library no longer has any time limits on lending VHS tapes. |
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| [21:47:55] | sphery: | AndyCap: they're probably hoping people don't bring them back :) |
| [21:48:16] | AndyCap: | :) |
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| [21:53:31] | sphery: | If anyone else is as excited about having authorized access to quality movie data (i.e. to replace IMDb, which we can't use), you may want to look at the message at http://themoviedb.org/content/Donate . And, if you like, you can start using tmdb with 0.21-fixes... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Tmdb.pl |
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| [21:53:51] | jduggan: | high-rez: i dont have it with me yet hence why i havent tested it.. but i mean, can it be decrypted and played back realtime? (assuming you have the grunt to do so) |
| [21:55:41] | FPSDavid: | lol channel scanner is @ 69% |
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| [21:56:27] | sphery: | jduggan: TTBOMK, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray content must be decrypted first, then played back (assuming doing so would be legal in your area). |
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| [21:57:47] | sphery: | jduggan: don't know how long decrypting takes, but I think most are using a commercial Windows app to do it, so the fact that it's Windows means it will take a while (i.e. have to decrypt, then transfer to the appropriate MythVideo location, then scan for videos, ...) |
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| [22:00:28] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: We should see about getting them in bed with SD |
| [22:01:08] | iamlindoro_: | I'd throw another few bucks on my SD sub as "an option" to support TMDB |
| [22:01:29] | sphery: | iamlindoro_: I was just thinking about where/how best to mention to xris that tmdb would be a great place to consider for some of that money they were looking to contribute to open-source projects |
| [22:01:38] | iamlindoro_: | yeah |
| [22:01:38] | sphery: | and, me too. |
| [22:01:53] | JEDIDIAH__: | do the tmdb guy(s) have any interest in DVD title to "show" mapping information? |
| [22:02:30] | JEDIDIAH__: | cddb for dvds basically... |
| [22:02:32] | sphery: | xris: anyway, if SD could/wants to help, http://themoviedb.org/content/Donate (and, if you're signed up for an account at tmdb, they sent out a call for help today--I can make a copy available to you if desired) |
| [22:02:48] | ** iamlindoro_ just donated $30 ** | |
| [22:04:08] | sphery: | iamlindoro_: sorry to mention it too late, but the e-mail said that "$5 or $10 can make the world of difference"... So, I guess you just bought 3–6 worlds. |
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| [22:04:32] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: I just covered me and the five selfish jerkwads on either side of me |
| [22:05:20] | sphery: | Oh, I didn't realize we had to cover them, too... I'm guessing there's more than 5/donator, if we do the math, though. |
| [22:06:30] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: My proposal would be this: $20 for SD for a year, and the options to give $5 extra to each of TMDB and TTVDB, where the login buys you access to a faster server |
| [22:06:36] | gbee: | I keep meaning to donate, guess I could do it right now and then I won't have any excuse |
| [22:07:04] | sphery: | gbee: so would an e-mail to the -users list mentioning tmdb's need for donations with a link to http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Tmdb.pl be appropriate? |
| [22:07:10] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: Well, not proposal so much as "here's a crazy idea": |
| [22:07:31] | sphery: | iamlindoro_: do you remember the datadirect plus thing that they tried for a while? |
| [22:07:39] | iamlindoro_: | yeah |
| [22:08:26] | sphery: | sounds similar, but I think yours would be easier for people to support. (assuming the faster server means the tmdb/ttvdb servers) |
| [22:08:31] | gbee: | sphery: I don't see why not |
| [22:08:32] | iamlindoro_: | yeah, it does |
| [22:09:01] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: Especially as I have designs on seeing TMDB/TVDB data being added to the scheduler and downloading loads of images |
| [22:09:05] | sphery: | gbee: cool... guess there aren't too many new people for me to offend there, anyway, so I might as well send it out... |
| [22:09:37] | sphery: | gbee: now you just have to convince Anduin to remove imdb.pl from -fixes and put tmdb.pl in there and then it will become a priority for people :) |
| [22:09:54] | JEDIDIAH__: | send an email to "the list" |
| [22:10:13] | sphery: | yeah, I'll do that later |
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| [22:11:21] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: The question is whether the MythTV crowd can offset the allergic-to-paying XBMC crowd ;) |
| [22:12:21] | sphery: | hah... how true |
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| [22:13:13] | sphery: | we could convince travis to make it a subscription-based site... oh, but then the ____ crowd would just find holes in the security and steal the content. |
| [22:13:16] | Anduin: | I'm fine with imdb.pl being removed in -fixes if someone else does it |
| [22:13:34] | sphery: | Anduin: sweet... I'll work up a patch. Thanks. |
| [22:14:27] | gbee: | now is it right that in that moment, I was wondering how we could turn the lack of donations from XBMC users to mythtv's advantage :) |
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| [22:14:55] | gbee: | priority access and features for mythtv users? :p |
| [22:15:03] | sphery: | sounds good to me |
| [22:15:13] | iamlindoro_: | gbee: See my comment at 6 past the hour :) |
| [22:16:10] | gbee: | Travis couldn't make it subscription based, although I doubt that suggestion was serious, the people who have submitted data, fanart and posters would revolt |
| [22:17:09] | gbee: | he has said in the past that he would make the service available to commercial organisations for a fee and he hoped that would help with the running costs |
| [22:17:27] | gbee: | but there is a big IF with that plan |
| [22:17:28] | iamlindoro_: | gbee: not a sub, just preferential access to servers |
| [22:18:22] | gbee: | iamlindoro_: that was in reference to sphery's comment 5 minutes ago |
| [22:18:32] | iamlindoro_: | ah, I see :) |
| [22:18:50] | gbee: | my two replies weren't connected :) |
| [22:18:53] | sphery: | yeah, wasn't serious |
| [22:19:33] | gbee: | I was reading through scrollback and replying as I went, hence the out of sync |
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| [22:21:51] | gbee: | didn't someone provide a patch to backport tmdb.pl? IIRC the reason it hasn't been done already is that it depends on some binding or module that doesn't exist in 0.21 |
| [22:22:06] | FPSDavid: | If I go to Backend Status in MythWeb, why does it say I have 3 encoders when I only have two? |
| [22:22:42] | iamlindoro_: | gbee: IIRC merely copying the .pm in works |
| [22:23:04] | gbee: | because you setup three, even though you only have two physically in the machine? |
| [22:23:12] | FPSDavid: | i dont think so |
| [22:23:29] | gbee: | iamlindoro_: hmm, well maybe I'll backport it then |
| [22:23:35] | iamlindoro_: | because one of your cards is digital and by default is two encoders? |
| [22:23:42] | sphery: | gbee: I used the process at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Tmdb.pl (and then wrote that page) to get it to work on my -fixes system and it seems to work fine. I think there was a user who just copied tmdb.pl to the scripts directory and didn't put MythTV/MythVideoCommon.pm in there. |
| [22:24:29] | sphery: | Of course, for the selinux people, there would be the whole, "perl scripts can't use a module from the current dir unless you explicitly include it in the search path" thing--exactly like the problem they have with MythWeather |
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| [22:26:19] | tony403: | ok, i'll give this another shot. i had no other luck with tvtime. mythtv seems to connect to the database but i click "watch tv" and nothing |
| [22:26:35] | tony403: | so i go to /var/log/mythtv to check the logs? |
| [22:26:56] | tony403: | do i used v4l with my hvr 18000? |
| [22:27:10] | FPSDavid: | iamlindoro_, thats possible, but i dont recall it being 3 encoders always |
| [22:27:19] | wagnerrp: | tony403: you dont use anything, mythtv cannot currently use the analog capture on the hvr-1800 |
| [22:27:28] | wagnerrp: | digital only |
| [22:27:44] | tony403: | i googled and was sure i read some got it working |
| [22:30:04] | iamlindoro_: | FPSDavid: If you have one digital tuner and one analog, you will get three encoders by default w/ any Multirec-capable myth version |
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| [22:30:34] | FPSDavid: | alright, makes sense i guess lol |
| [22:30:38] | wagnerrp: | tony403: there are drivers for linux, however the encoder is not ivtv compatible, so mythtv does not understand how to use it |
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| [22:30:57] | wagnerrp: | maybe you can use it by accessing the framegrabber directly, i dont know... |
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| [22:32:26] | tony403: | so i'm sol with this tuner, correct? crap, it's the only thing i need to fix. i hate to go back to vista for this |
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| [22:37:35] | gbee: | not forever at least, linux support can't be far away |
| [22:38:00] | gbee: | there may already be patches etc that you can use to get it working |
| [22:38:02] | J-e-f-f-A: | tony403: The digital side works fine. It's just the Analog encoder that doesn't work w/ MythTV at the moment... |
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| [22:43:13] | tony403: | anyone know an app that supports hvr1800 analog atm? |
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| [22:49:12] | iamlindoro_: | cat |
| [22:49:29] | meshe: | /etc/passwd |
| [22:49:34] | tony403: | i have a pvr 150. would it hurt to install both at the same time in linux? |
| [22:49:41] | _abbenormal: | dog |
| [22:49:47] | iamlindoro_: | no, it would not hurt |
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| [22:50:15] | tony403: | also, will there be a way to get tv subscription free using mythtv? |
| [22:50:19] | gbee: | you can combine as many tuners and types of tuner as you like |
| [22:50:35] | iamlindoro_: | The only free TV you will get with MythTV or the help of anyone in this channel is with an antenna |
| [22:50:48] | gbee: | tony403: not unless there is subscription free TV in your area .... |
| [22:50:49] | tony403: | i mean guide data |
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| [22:50:53] | iamlindoro_: | Asking us how to STEAL will just make us calling you a POS THIEF and get you kicked out |
| [22:51:11] | ** Dr^Mouse screams very loudly ** | |
| [22:51:42] | iamlindoro_: | if you are in the US, then your only real option is Schedules Direct for listings. EIT (over the air guide) is nonexistent or so poor as to be nonexistent in the US |
| [22:52:04] | iamlindoro_: | And there's no EIT for analog television signals, either |
| [22:52:04] | tony403: | ...and that is free for US users also? |
| [22:52:07] | gbee: | tony403: possible, all depends on how you are receiving that TV – analogue rules out EIT, that leaves xmltv with a screen scraper which is a little messy but maybe there is a grabber for your area |
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| [22:52:25] | iamlindoro_: | Which, if your area is the US, there isn't :) |
| [22:53:30] | tony403: | crap. i don't want to go back to vista for this. it already gives me free guide subscription. and i have vista oem so i can't put it on another pc |
| [22:55:45] | iamlindoro_: | EIT is the guide data inserted by your provider. It's only for digital tuners and many/most providers don't use it at all. For those that do, the BEST you will do is poor quality data for a day or so. Anything better than that is a miracle. Just pay the $20 and support the project that wrote you all this free software |
| [22:55:45] | gbee: | tony403: Schedules Direct costs 5 cents a day, or $20 a year if you prefer |
| [22:55:45] | gbee: | cheap at twice the price |
| [22:55:45] | iamlindoro_: | Not to mention the whole "media center and DVR for free free free" |
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| [22:55:46] | iamlindoro_: | Myth isn't the right hobby for people unwilling to pay a cent |
| [22:55:46] | tony403: | i'm willing to pay but i've already paid for vista with media center |
| [22:55:46] | gbee: | "support the project that wrote you all this free software" .. so how does that work again? |
| [22:55:46] | cesman: | what does vista have to do w/ getting schedules for MythTV? |
| [22:56:15] | tony403: | nothing, only it's intertwined with my situation. scroll up |
| [22:56:35] | cesman: | how is it? |
| [22:56:38] | iamlindoro_: | If $20 for the whole year is too much, then you should use Vista, it's no skin off my nose |
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| [22:57:04] | iamlindoro_: | And we don't care when people use windows, in general |
| [22:57:16] | iamlindoro_: | (and often we'd prefer they did) |
| [22:57:23] | meshe: | Schedules Direct is only $20/year |
| [22:57:27] | gbee: | Just say no. |
| [22:57:29] | tony403: | no, but it's called conversation. i'm not meaning to denigrate it, just discussing |
| [22:57:43] | iamlindoro_: | We're being conversational |
| [22:58:11] | ** gbee hands out Windows Users Anonymous meeting schedules ** | |
| [22:58:18] | iamlindoro_: | Your option if you're using Myth in the US, especially with an analog tuner, is Schedules Direct, a not-for-profit organization run by some of the same people who bring you myth, whose profits will be reinvested in the community |
| [22:58:44] | iamlindoro_: | so indirectly, but tangibly, supporting Myth and associated projects |
| [22:58:45] | yalu (yalu!n=yalu@62.235.145.3) has quit (Remote closed the connection) | |
| [22:59:00] | cesman: | tony403: it is $20.00 a year for SD. If you have vista and don't want to pay the $20.00 then, use vista |
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| [22:59:10] | cesman: | tony403: it is as simple as that |
| [23:00:01] | tony403: | thanks guys |
| [23:00:16] | cesman: | you're welcome |
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| [23:01:43] | J-e-f-f-A: | In the Boston area, EIT exists, but is only ~2 days of data. SD gives me 14 days of listings. ;-) |
| [23:01:43] | Dr^Mouse: | ok, after restoring my server from the backup i took just before my upgrade to lenny, and guess what? mythis still acting exactly as it did after the upgrade. AARGH! it was working fine!! |
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| [23:02:18] | gbee: | corrupt database? |
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| [23:03:32] | Dr^Mouse: | tony403: pitty you dont live in a decent country :P I get all my listings free from radio times (live in UK).. at least i do when myth works :'( |
| [23:03:36] | Dr^Mouse: | guys: is there any way I can check if somethings screwed up in the database? |
| [23:03:46] | tony403: | so is there a way for me to know if my local cable co transmits EIT info so i know what's coming on at least in the next two days? |
| [23:04:00] | akv (akv!i=akv@lnxbx.dk) has quit (Connection reset by peer) | |
| [23:04:21] | tony403: | Dr^Mouse: yeah, but you have tv tax, correct? |
| [23:04:21] | JEDIDIAH__: | $20 to SD more than makes up for not needing to deal with XP or Vista MCE. |
| [23:04:31] | iamlindoro_: | Set up your digital card in myth, set the listings source to be the on-air guide. Wait 12 hours. If you have any listings, you have EIT. |
| [23:04:42] | tony403: | ok thanks |
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| [23:04:52] | AndyCap: | tony403: no. you paid for it when you bought vista |
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| [23:04:58] | AndyCap: | now, if only SD had something to sell to me. |
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| [23:05:16] | iamlindoro_: | This will not help you with your analog card |
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| [23:05:25] | tony403: | is someone spamming this place? any way to turn off joining/leaving messages? |
| [23:05:31] | gbee: | tony403: setting up includes scanning for channels etc |
| [23:05:55] | JEDIDIAH__: | ...reminds me of the great netsplit of '91 |
| [23:05:58] | JEDIDIAH__: | '-) |
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| [23:06:00] | cesman: | lol |
| [23:06:01] | gbee: | tony403: depends on your IRC client, mine offers that option |
| [23:06:21] | tony403: | gbee, i'm on xchat |
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| [23:06:35] | gbee: | ß |
| [23:06:51] | JEDIDIAH__: | what's the ess-set for? |
| [23:07:17] | mzb_d800: | gee, they might want to think about some CRC in that intermittent switch ;) |
| [23:07:53] | mzb_d800: | (or shoot the dog that's chewing on the network cable;)) |
| [23:09:32] | _thefRont: | nom nom nom |
| [23:09:39] | Dr^Mouse: | right, should there be a value in 'hostname' for the MasterServerIP and Port entries in the settings table? |
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| [23:16:01] | thedarkone: | hey all |
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| [23:16:13] | thedarkone: | i brought a brand new tv today |
| [23:16:33] | thedarkone: | i trying to hook mythbox threw vga |
| [23:16:48] | thedarkone: | i can't get nvidia card pass 800x600 |
| [23:17:29] | thedarkone: | anyway i can get it to work |
| [23:18:49] | cesman: | perhaps if you didn't throw it, it might have worked ;) |
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| [23:19:40] | iamlindoro_: | hey, come on, her already told you he can get it to work, this is a happy ending! |
| [23:19:44] | iamlindoro_: | s/her/he/ |
| [23:19:56] | thedarkone: | lol |
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| [23:20:12] | thedarkone: | i mean anyway i can get it in 1366x768 |
| [23:20:30] | iamlindoro_: | You *want* to use 1366x768 |
| [23:20:34] | thedarkone: | yes |
| [23:20:40] | iamlindoro_: | so... can is good |
| [23:20:45] | thedarkone: | isn't that 720p |
| [23:21:00] | iamlindoro_: | 1280x720 is 720p, but 1366x768 is more 720p televisions |
| [23:21:09] | iamlindoro_: | s/more/most/ |
| [23:21:15] | thedarkone: | well i put in xorg but it keeps going to 800x600 |
| [23:21:18] | iamlindoro_: | anyway, I think you keep saying "can" when maybe you mean "can't" |
| [23:21:43] | thedarkone: | i can't get it in 1366x768 |
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| [23:21:55] | thedarkone: | it keeps going into 80x600 mode |
| [23:22:00] | iamlindoro_: | OK. Why are you using VGA instead of DVI or DVI to HDMI? |
| [23:22:11] | iamlindoro_: | and |
| [23:22:18] | iamlindoro_: | have you run sudo nvidia-xconfig and rebooted? |
| [23:22:26] | thedarkone: | because i ran out of money |
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| [23:23:17] | thedarkone: | iamlindoro it puts it in 800x600 |
| [23:23:18] | cesman: | depending on you TV, you'll have to pass some parameters in xorg.conf to get nvidia to use that resolution |
| [23:23:30] | iamlindoro_: | DVI or HDMI would likely make this all loads easier |
| [23:24:04] | iamlindoro_: | thedarkone: So have you or have you not run nvidia-xconfig and rebooted? |
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| [23:24:22] | iamlindoro_: | nvidia-xconfig is the name of a program run from the command line |
| [23:24:42] | thedarkone: | i did nvidia -xconfig |
| [23:25:05] | iamlindoro_: | and you ran it as a user with permission to modify the xorg.conf? |
| [23:25:09] | thedarkone: | yes |
| [23:25:14] | thedarkone: | sudo |
| [23:25:22] | thedarkone: | and ask for password |
| [23:25:30] | iamlindoro_: | Then run nvidia-settings and see if you can modify the resolution there |
| [23:25:54] | iamlindoro_: | otherwise, as cesman mentioned, you will likely need to get fancy with corg.conf (which you should do in your distro's channel) |
| [23:25:56] | thedarkone: | it only shows 800x600 and lower |
| [23:25:56] | Dr^Mouse: | right. drastic times call for drastic measures. i'm dropping and recreating mythconverg (after a backup of course). if this doesnt work i'm going to go on a killing spree, so check the news tomorrow... |
| [23:26:03] | iamlindoro_: | x/corg/conf/xorg.conf/ |
| [23:26:32] | thedarkone: | iamlindoro i tryied moding the xorg.conf |
| [23:26:33] | iamlindoro_: | ugh, bad regex |
| [23:26:42] | iamlindoro_: | thedarkone: Yes, but you obviously failed at it |
| [23:26:48] | thedarkone: | it in my /etc/x11/xorg.conf |
| [23:26:53] | iamlindoro_: | yes, I know |
| [23:26:54] | iamlindoro_: | you failed |
| [23:27:02] | iamlindoro_: | so go see your distro's channel and get help there |
| [23:27:08] | thedarkone: | well how freaking can that happen |
| [23:27:47] | iamlindoro_: | how can what happen? You don't have the information necessary to create an xorg.conf that does what you want it to, so you should seek out people who do in the appropriate channel, the one for your distro |
| [23:31:16] | thedarkone: | should i use pastebin and paste my xorg.conf |
| [23:31:45] | iamlindoro_: | It's very possible your television will not work easily at native res through the VGA port. So. Your likely *easy* fix is to get a proper DVI or DVI to HDMI cable and let the driver do its thing, or you will need to seek out someone who enjoys troubleshooting xorg.conf tweaking because people are too cheap to buy the proper cable. That person is not me (and unlikely anyone else in here) |
| [23:32:45] | ** Dr^Mouse takes off all his clothes and runs naked through the street shouting "It's only a corrupt database I can fix it YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!" ** | |
| [23:32:53] | thedarkone: | well it tells ya what to set it to |
| [23:33:11] | iamlindoro_: | But for my part I have left modelines and xorg.conf hacking far behind me by spending more than a nickel on cables and hardware |
| [23:33:20] | thedarkone: | well iamlindoro well i am out of money |
| [23:33:42] | mzb_d800: | thedarkone: for eg: depending on <insert many variables> it could be as simple as setting the IgnoreEDID flag, but who is to know without intimate knowledge of YOUR system |
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| [23:34:00] | cesman: | thedarkone: you should listen to what iamlindoro_ has to state concerning native res... |
| [23:34:26] | iamlindoro_: | Sheaper LCD TVs often behave that way |
| [23:34:30] | iamlindoro_: | er cheaper |
| [23:34:39] | mzb_d800: | comes down to how much your time is worth, and your patience levels |
| [23:34:49] | J-e-f-f-A: | thedarkone: You can buy a DVI cable for less than $10 online, and even an HDMI->DVI cable for the same price... |
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| [23:35:15] | thedarkone: | wekk here is my xorg.conf |
| [23:35:20] | thedarkone: | http://pastebin.ca/1351438 |
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| [23:36:03] | mzb_d800: | depth definition? |
| [23:36:18] | mzb_d800: | how about you look at you X log after trying to start X? |
| [23:36:45] | thedarkone: | i will now |
| [23:36:51] | cesman: | thedarkone: http://pastebin.ca/1351442 that is mine. Even w/ DVI, I have to dick w/ xorg.conf to get it working |
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| [23:37:28] | thedarkone: | this thing driving me nutz |
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| [23:38:37] | clever: | damnit |
| [23:38:45] | clever: | half the recordings from yesterday are on the wrong channels! |
| [23:39:30] | nrpil (nrpil!n=nrpil@a82-95-70-74.adsl.xs4all.nl) has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | |
| [23:39:50] | Dr^Mouse: | thedarkone: have you tried plugging it up to a windows box just to check if it will do the higher res on there? |
| [23:40:22] | thedarkone: | yes |
| [23:40:23] | Dr^Mouse: | i hate suggesting it, but if that works at least you know you are working toward a solution, not just banmging your head against a brick wall |
| [23:40:32] | Dr^Mouse: | and it does? |
| [23:40:36] | thedarkone: | yes |
| [23:40:42] | purserj (purserj!n=purserj@k-sit.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:41:01] | thedarkone: | it even tells ya in the manual what to set it to |
| [23:41:14] | Dr^Mouse: | ok, there is a utility which will get you all the settings you need for xorg.conf from your windows box. |
| [23:41:40] | Dr^Mouse: | i cant remember what its called but its out there. |
| [23:41:43] | thedarkone: | well my windows box don't use xorg |
| [23:41:49] | thedarkone: | it is vista |
| [23:41:58] | ** J-e-f-f-A sighs ** | |
| [23:42:05] | cesman: | thedarkone: perhaps you should check the xorg log and do some searching on nvnews... |
| [23:42:41] | thedarkone: | yeah mean while i gona wipe linux and put windows on it |
| [23:43:42] | iamlindoro_: | Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the american public school system |
| [23:43:52] | ** Dr^Mouse sigs and gets back to examining his database to see whats wrong with it ** | |
| [23:43:55] | Shadow_M (Shadow_M!n=Shadow_M@RH-LaurelN-CS1-129-67.njit.edu) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:44:12] | thedarkone: | well u all first say use vga port now u say it will not work |
| [23:44:28] | iamlindoro_: | Nobody ever told you to use the VGA port |
| [23:44:41] | Dr^Mouse: | thedarkone: no, nobody has said it will not work |
| [23:44:43] | ** cesman know he didn't say use VGA port ** | |
| [23:44:43] | thedarkone: | yes awhile back |
| [23:45:00] | iamlindoro_: | We've all been telling you how DVI and HDMI would be infinitely simpler to set up |
| [23:45:14] | iamlindoro_: | as those will (especially DVI) likely identify themselves properly via EDID |
| [23:45:40] | Dr^Mouse: | just a question thedarkone, dont take offense, but is english your first language? |
| [23:45:51] | iamlindoro_: | and then I told you that the VGA port would likely involve xorg.conf hackery since most cheap LCDs don't advertise the native res on the VGA port |
| [23:46:02] | thedarkone: | well iamlindoro if i had the money i would |
| [23:46:06] | iamlindoro_: | and then I told you to seek help in your distro's channel as this is a general computing question |
| [23:46:15] | iamlindoro_: | but you ignored all the bits you didn't feel like doing, sooooooo |
| [23:46:20] | thedarkone: | i saved 600.00 for this tv |
| [23:46:23] | J-e-f-f-A: | thedarkone: You don't have $10? |
| [23:46:27] | thedarkone: | none |
| [23:46:33] | iamlindoro_: | Maybe next allowance |
| [23:46:36] | thedarkone: | i spent 601.00 on this tv |
| [23:47:09] | thedarkone: | well iamlindoro there is no allowance |
| [23:47:21] | thedarkone: | i was layed off from work |
| [23:47:28] | thedarkone: | so money is very tight |
| [23:47:35] | J-e-f-f-A: | thedarkone: $10, not $100.... < $10 for a DVI<->DVI or DVI<->HDMI or HDMI<->HDMI cable from monoprice.com ... delivered... |
| [23:47:39] | iamlindoro_: | I'm sorry to hear that, but I respectfully suggest a TV wasn't the right investment then |
| [23:47:39] | mzb_d800: | Dr^Mouse: the resolution reported by Windows is not going to help you |
| [23:47:44] | mzb_d800: | s/you/anyone |
| [23:48:11] | thedarkone: | well yeah i know iamlindoro |
| [23:48:27] | thedarkone: | well last tv i had was a 50 inch |
| [23:48:30] | mzb_d800: | thedarkone: paste the X log |
| [23:48:34] | iamlindoro_: | And I will again suggest you seek help in your distro's channel |
| [23:48:34] | thedarkone: | i tried to use r/b/g |
| [23:48:45] | iamlindoro_: | as this is a general computing question |
| [23:48:59] | IOU (IOU!n=ryan@i-owns-u.net) has left #mythtv-users () | |
| [23:49:15] | jpabq: | thedarkone: $5 --> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp . . . amp;format=2 |
| [23:49:48] | thedarkone: | they seem not to answer anyone |
| [23:49:51] | kkuno (kkuno!n=wefw@151.64.201.54) has quit (Remote closed the connection) | |
| [23:50:03] | thedarkone: | well i gona wipe myth off of it and put windows on it |
| [23:50:07] | iamlindoro_: | ok |
| [23:50:10] | thedarkone: | seems to be easier |
| [23:50:16] | kkuno (kkuno!n=wefw@151.64.201.54) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:50:21] | iamlindoro_: | Whatever works for you |
| [23:50:29] | Dr^Mouse: | mzb_d800: there is a windows util i found on t'interweb which found all the info you needed to build the correct modeline. was many years ago... |
| [23:50:37] | ** iamlindoro_ responds poorly to emotional/technological blackmail ** | |
| [23:50:39] | thedarkone: | well it worked for a year |
| [23:50:40] | AndyCap: | Dr^Mouse: powerstrip? |
| [23:50:47] | iamlindoro_: | ok, so go use windows, sounds like a plan |
| [23:50:52] | mzb_d800: | uhuh ... but windows itself will not tell you the real resolution |
| [23:50:53] | cesman: | AndyCap: yes that is it |
| [23:51:04] | ** cesman has been trying to think of the name... ** | |
| [23:51:13] | iamlindoro_: | cesman: yeah, I remembered it was power-something |
| [23:51:22] | AndyCap: | powertrip! :) |
| [23:51:26] | J-e-f-f-A: | yes, powerstrip |
| [23:51:50] | mzb_d800: | <mzb_d800> thedarkone: paste the X log |
| [23:52:34] | AndyCap: | anyhow. X -logverbose 6 , and reading both the Xorg.*.log and not least the Nvidia README document closely should enable one to fix most problems. |
| [23:53:03] | mzb_d800: | s/pastebin ;) |
| [23:53:17] | Dr^Mouse: | AndyCap: yeah that sounds right :) |
| [23:53:41] | thedarkone: | http://pastebin.ca/1351459 |
| [23:53:57] | AndyCap: | even stupid idiotic displays that can't even have a number of pixels divisible by 8 |
| [23:54:19] | kkuno (kkuno!n=wefw@151.64.201.54) has quit (Remote closed the connection) | |
| [23:54:54] | AndyCap: | thedarkone: if you don't run the nvidia drivers, no joy for you |
| [23:55:10] | meshe: | (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found) |
| [23:55:45] | AndyCap: | (II) LoadModule: "vesa" -> fail. |
| [23:55:52] | Dr^Mouse: | thedarkone: what graphics card do you have? |
| [23:56:11] | AndyCap: | # |
| [23:56:13] | AndyCap: | (--) PCI:*(1:0:0) nVidia Corporation NV44A [GeForce 6200] rev 161, Mem @ 0xe8000000/24, 0xd0000000/28, 0xe9000000/24 |
| [23:57:40] | meshe: | thedarkone: basically, install the nvidia drivers |
| [23:59:31] | thedarkone: | 6200 |
| [23:59:54] | Dr^Mouse: | thedarkone: which distibution are you using? |
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