Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, February 20th, 2009, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:05]

NotForResale-US:

just the tuner is overscanned

[00:00:25]

JEDIDIAH__:

tv and videocard are not getting along entirely.

[00:01:42]

_abbenormal:

truely spoken there JEDIDIAH__

[00:02:43]

iamlindoro:

utilities/Setup->Setup->Appearance, page two, "Use GUI Size for Playback"

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[00:17:32]

NotForResale-US:

iamlindoro: that option doesn't do anything

[00:17:54]

iamlindoro:

Heh, it might not have solved your problem, but it most definitely does something

[00:18:07]

iamlindoro:

anyway, sounds like you're misunderstanding something you're seeing, then

[00:18:20]

NotForResale-US:

like friday the 13 commerical

[00:18:27]

NotForResale-US:

it displayed Friday th the rest was cut off

[00:18:28]

iamlindoro:

Would need screenshots of video versus GUI to know what you are seeing

[00:18:33]

wagnerrp:

NotForResale-US: is the GUI cut off as well? is it possible you are resizing the video?

[00:18:40]

NotForResale-US:

no

[00:18:42]

NotForResale-US:

the gui is perfect

[00:18:47]

NotForResale-US:

just the live TV

[00:18:55]

NotForResale-US:

im using hvr-1600

[00:19:09]

NotForResale-US:

here ill show you

[00:19:21]

wagnerrp:

mythtv will not display beyond the bounds of the X screen unless you have zoom on

[00:19:46]

NotForResale-US:

what do you mean

[00:19:51]

NotForResale-US:

its like its streaching the live tv

[00:20:09]

wagnerrp:

it wont stretch the live tv unless you have told it to zoom

[00:20:16]

NotForResale-US:

how do i figure that

[00:20:27]

wagnerrp:

during livetv, hit 'm'

[00:20:30]

wagnerrp:

theres a menu option for it

[00:20:54]

wagnerrp:

or hit 'w' to change it directly

[00:21:02]

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[00:22:06]

wagnerrp:

gbee: my 939 X2 idled at 1GHz

[00:23:44]

NotForResale-US:

its not zooming

[00:23:46]

NotForResale-US:

its the tuner

[00:24:33]

iamlindoro:

No, it's not.

[00:24:45]

iamlindoro:

Even if your tuner captured at 10000000x10000000000 it'd still display at the X res

[00:24:47]

NotForResale-US:

i changed the setting

[00:24:56]

NotForResale-US:

and i moved the picture

[00:24:58]

NotForResale-US:

left n right

[00:25:02]

NotForResale-US:

and put it on 4x3

[00:25:05]

NotForResale-US:

its still zoomed

[00:25:36]

wagnerrp:

so youre saying when you moved the picture to the right, you saw more on the left side that had previously been off screen?

[00:26:17]

NotForResale-US:

no

[00:26:20]

NotForResale-US:

it stayed the same

[00:26:25]

NotForResale-US:

it just moved the picture left or right

[00:27:07]

wagnerrp:

and youve compared this to video watched on tv, and you know there should be more video over there?

[00:28:43]

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[00:28:44]

wagnerrp:

basically, you get the video that the 1600 gives you, theres nothing you can do to fix legitimate overscan in the tuner short of a fix and recompile of the driver, if thats even a possibility

[00:29:32]

wagnerrp:

on my 150s, i get a nice black band all around the video

[00:30:24]

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[00:30:49]

wagnerrp:

open one of the videos in mplayer or something (and not full screen), and see if you still get the same overscaling

[00:34:04]

wagnerrp:

also realize that if you have a analog tv, and usually even with digital tvs, your image will be overscanned

[00:34:22]

NotForResale-US:

its a old analog TV

[00:34:29]

wagnerrp:

you either have to tinker around with custom modelines, or go into the 'screen setup wizard' in mythfontend, to fix it

[00:34:38]

NotForResale-US:

screen setup wizard?

[00:34:45]

wagnerrp:

in the settings

[00:35:06]

wagnerrp:

it gives you two cursors, you set move them around until they are exactly in the corners of the screen

[00:35:16]

NotForResale-US:

hmmmmm

[00:35:20]

NotForResale-US:

where do i find that

[00:35:22]

wagnerrp:

and it will store the size and offset to run mythtv at

[00:35:28]

wagnerrp:

in the frontend settings

[00:35:30]

NotForResale-US:

mythtv isnt the issue

[00:35:34]

NotForResale-US:

its fine

[00:35:38]

NotForResale-US:

just the tuner picture

[00:36:01]

wagnerrp:

if you have not either run that, or set up a custom modeline, mythtv is the issue

[00:36:09]

wagnerrp:

you will either be under or overscanned

[00:36:16]

NotForResale-US:

i dont see it

[00:36:36]

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[00:37:19]

wagnerrp:

utilities/settings --> setup

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[00:39:42]

wagnerrp:

like i said, if the tuner in fact is your problem, there is no solution

[00:39:49]

NotForResale-US:

hmm lemme try that

[00:40:00]

wagnerrp:

i dont want to say youre wrong, but rather im hoping youre wrong

[00:40:56]

NotForResale-US:

wrong meaning

[00:44:39]

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[00:49:04]

NotForResale-US:

ythTV appears to be setting the Video Capture Width/Height to 480/480 instead of 720/480..

[00:54:01]

wagnerrp:

the suggested resolution for ivtv cards is 720x480/576

[00:54:09]

wagnerrp:

but that shouldnt make any difference for overscaling

[00:54:18]

wagnerrp:

the card should scale the video internally before encoding

[00:54:44]

NotForResale-US:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6759974

[00:54:48]

NotForResale-US:

same issue as im having

[00:55:33]

GreyFoxx:

NotForResale-US: That is (or was) the recording profile default

[00:55:45]

GreyFoxx:

You want adifferent res or bitrate youhave to change the recording profiles

[00:56:29]

NotForResale-US:

huh

[00:56:38]

NotForResale-US:

thats in mythsetup right

[00:56:45]

wagnerrp:

no, mythfrontend

[00:56:45]

GreyFoxx:

nope the frontend

[00:56:46]

clever:

mythfrontend

[00:56:49]

NotForResale-US:

where at?

[00:56:55]

NotForResale-US:

this is live tv

[00:57:03]

clever:

then edit the livetv profile

[00:57:06]

wagnerrp:

settings, setup, tv settings, recording profiles, mpeg encoders

[00:58:18]

NotForResale-US:

mythtv

[00:58:26]

NotForResale-US:

had it as 480x480

[00:59:27]

NotForResale-US:

so i put that sucker to 720x480

[00:59:29]

NotForResale-US:

and voila

[01:00:31]

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[01:02:07]

buckeye:

Can someone help me understand why my mythtv setup consistently missing flagging the last commercial?

[01:02:41]

buckeye:

Has anyone else had this problem?

[01:03:07]

buckeye:

It seems to be just the last commercial that it has a problem with.

[01:04:23]

NotForResale-US:

how do install 3rd party themes

[01:05:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

buckeye: Commercial flagging isn't a perfect science... It's very complex. I'll bet you find that only happens on one channel, or with one specific show. It used to happen to me all the time with "Home Improvement"...

[01:06:07]

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[01:06:16]

tank-man:

automatic isnt perfect always

[01:07:11]

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[01:08:45]

buckeye:

J-e-f-f-A, thanks. I will pay more attention to see if it is happening on one channel. I think I remember it happening one more than one channel though. It just seems odd that it works great with the exception of the last commercial break

[01:09:44]

buckeye:

I am happy the way that it is, but I just wanted to check to see if it was something obvious that I was missing.

[01:13:58]

rotty:

can I get mythfilldatabase to change the callsign and name of channels scanned before? It would kinda suck to have to enter all that information (as opposed to xmltvid, which is needed to link the scanned channel to the XML data) manually when it is in the xmltv file mythfilldatabase uses...

[01:14:02]

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[01:14:19]

rotty:

s/as opposed to/as opposed to the/

[01:14:27]

NotForResale-US:

i installed themes but not displayed

[01:16:05]

rotty:

(well, I could easily write a Python script to do that for me, but at ~20 channels that would probably take about the same time as entering the info manually via mythweb)

[01:16:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

buckeye: I don't know 100% all the techniques, but I believe they use 1) Black screen 2) Channel Logo, and 3) time between black screens. Networks are getting more creative with their logos, so I'm sure #2 isn't as effective as it used to be...

[01:17:23]

rotty:

(... but it would surely be more fun to write the script then entering the info manually, but I'd still prefer if mythfilldatabase could do it for me ;-))

[01:17:50]

buckeye:

J-e-f-f-A: Definitely better than Tivo...

[01:18:00]

J-e-f-f-A:

buckeye: and if the time between black screens is 'just right', or within tolerance of a typical commerical timeframe, i'd guess that it would confuse the detector. (With Home Improvement, they used to do a 30 or 60-second blip at the end of the show, it was always detected as part of the last commercial.

[01:18:06]

rotty:

(I tried with and without --update, but neither touches the callsign & channel name)

[01:19:47]

buckeye:

J-e-f-f-A: I will try to pay more attention to when they are missed, and maybe I figure out some logical reason. Actually, I do remember it happening to my analog as well as hdtv recordings.

[01:21:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

buckeye: Yeah, in the days of a 'static' station logo in the corner, it was probably much easier/accurate. Now that the logos spin, rotate between different logos, fade in, out, etc, it's got to be more complex, if not completly confused for logo detection...

[01:22:29]

J-e-f-f-A:

buckeye: Do you have "Strict Commercial Detection" turned on?

[01:23:32]

buckeye:

J-e-f-f-A: I am away from my mythtv box, but I don't think I have it turned out, but I will definitely check. Is one way better than the other?

[01:23:41]

unimaginative:

Sigh. I wish my frontends would behave

[01:24:09]

buckeye:

J-e-f-f-A: sorry...turned on...

[01:24:50]

J-e-f-f-A:

buckeye: I dunno... I have it set as "Commercial Skip Method: All Available Methods" [X] Strict Commercial Detection ... and it seems to be ~95% accurate for me... Really, really good IMHO... ;-)

[01:25:25]

J-e-f-f-A:

buckeye: And in the rare case that it's wrong, my skip-forward is 30 seconds, skip-back is 10 seconds, just like it was on my Dish PVRs. ;-)

[01:26:40]

buckeye:

J-e-f-f-A: Thanks for your help. I will play around with the settings and see what I can do (or screw up) :)

[01:26:52]

** J-e-f-f-A chuckles **

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[01:28:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

buckeye: NP by the way... just chuckling about your "or screw up" comment... ;-)

[01:31:24]

unimaginative:

buckeye: back up your database before you go fiddling

[01:31:58]

J-e-f-f-A:

unimaginative: All he's going to 'fiddle' with is the commercial detection methods...

[01:32:37]

unimaginative:

buckeye: forget what I said. Do what you want.

[01:32:58]

unimaginative:

Figured I'd offer a bit of smart advice for any situation.

[01:33:48]

J-e-f-f-A:

unimaginative: I could see saying that if he's going into the DB and mucking around with it, but just changing a setting in the frontend...

[01:34:14]

unimaginative:

J-e-f-f-A: It starts with changing a few settings in the frontend :)

[01:34:26]

unimaginative:

But yeah, I see where you're going.

[01:35:29]

unimaginative:

Grr, I'm seriously considering returning/selling this mobo.

[01:35:36]

unimaginative:

I've been having nothing but problems out of it.

[01:37:27]

unimaginative:

Insane northbridge temps, broken network adapter, sound card won't output correctly, and "bus issues" related sound playback

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[01:48:46]

clever:

mythtv@dadxp:~$ pidof mythbackend

[01:48:46]

clever:

Segmentation fault

[01:48:49]

clever:

ummm?

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[01:53:11]

gongoputch:

can myth drive digital cards?

[01:54:25]

clever:

http://bellard.org/dvbt/ maybe

[01:54:59]

wagnerrp:

gongoputch: myth can use any digital card listed at linuxtv.org

[01:55:03]

gongoputch:

is the canonical solution a converter box?

[01:55:19]

wagnerrp:

there is absolutely no reason to use a DTV converter box

[01:55:37]

gongoputch:

I see

[01:57:12]

clever:

wagnerrp: any clue on my error?

[01:57:33]

wagnerrp:

why pidof would get a segfault? not a clue

[01:57:45]

clever:

its not just pidof, its pretty much everything

[01:57:52]

clever:

i couldnt even shutdown -r now

[01:57:56]

wagnerrp:

hardware failure

[01:57:59]

clever:

had to echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger

[01:58:06]

wagnerrp:

you processor or memory is borked

[01:58:13]

clever:

its only begun happening after i started using virtualbox

[01:58:41]

sphery:

or your libc is borked

[01:58:42]

clever:

im thinking virtualbox borked the kernel

[01:59:17]

clever:

at one point i managed to get 'top' to actualy run, and it acted like sleep(5000) was sleep(0)

[01:59:24]

clever:

so it was updating contstantly

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[02:12:37]

Staticwave_Ace:

hello all, I was wondering if anyone knew if I can offset recording times by fractions of a minute?

[02:12:44]

wagnerrp:

no

[02:12:56]

Staticwave_Ace:

ah, only integers

[02:13:12]

wagnerrp:

the frontend and mythweb both only accept full minutes

[02:13:56]

Staticwave_Ace:

stupid TV peoples being off by exactly 30 seconds

[02:15:35]

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[02:16:34]

dforsyth1:

hello, having trouble getting mythtv to run on one of my computers.

[02:16:37]

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[02:16:53]

dforsyth1:

get the line "VideoOutput: Allowed renderers:"

[02:17:17]

dforsyth1:

with no formats, on my working machines I get a short list.

[02:17:55]

k-man:

is there a lot of work going on with getting myth to use VDPAU?

[02:18:34]

Staticwave_Ace:

k-man: it's already mostly done

[02:18:37]

Staticwave_Ace:

see, the wiki

[02:18:48]

wagnerrp:

k-man: yes, but do realize that VDPAU has not yet been stably released by nvidia

[02:19:15]

wagnerrp:

VDPAU will not be available in the stable branch of myth until nvidia does so

[02:19:42]

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[02:23:24]

k-man:

wagnerrp: oh, ok

[02:23:51]

k-man:

wagnerrp: but VDPAU will essentialy allow accelerated video playback?

[02:23:57]

Staticwave_Ace:

that's what it's for

[02:24:03]

wagnerrp:

correct

[02:24:06]

k-man:

thanks

[02:24:16]

wagnerrp:

it will play mpeg2, mpeg4avc, and vc1

[02:24:28]

Staticwave_Ace:

has anyone reported issues with ivtv and missing sound on recordings?

[02:24:34]

Staticwave_Ace:

this has shown up lately for me

[02:27:46]

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[02:28:23]

unimaginative:

How can I get my backend to record less than one minuite of video?

[02:28:37]

unimaginative:

I'm trying to make a video sample that is not 70MB

[02:29:16]

wagnerrp:

record one minute, and then chop off a couple MB sample of it

[02:29:45]

unimaginative:

wagnerrp: That won't remove needed data? (I'm used to working with AVI's sorry)

[02:29:48]

wagnerrp:

its a transport stream, you can start and stop it anywhere you want in the data stream

[02:30:12]

wagnerrp:

so long as you have at least one I-frame so it can start playing

[02:30:32]

Bearcat:

hey folks. I'm using mythtv svn (0.22.20090208), but i've had this problem for a few versions now. When trying to pull in lineups from Scheduals direct i'm getting an eno: Function not implemented (38). I can't find any trace of this on gossomer threads. Any ideas? I'm certain my login and pw are correct as i just logged into SD with them.

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[02:31:14]

wagnerrp:

unimaginative: just remember that one second of video is likely to be ~2MB

[02:33:47]

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[02:33:49]

unimaginative:

This is just a sample so others can see the actual data I'm working with.

[02:33:59]

unimaginative:

IMO, it can be 10 seconds or so.

[02:34:07]

unimaginative:

20 megs is better than 100+megs

[02:35:44]

wagnerrp:

except for black screens, I-frames will usually come several per second

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[02:42:34]

xinli:

hi yall

[02:42:54]

xinli:

did anybody scan channels all right with a hauppauge 950?

[02:43:36]

wagnerrp:

do you have a multithreaded system?

[02:44:44]

xinli:

multithreaded?

[02:45:01]

wagnerrp:

multiprocessor, hyperthreaded, multicore...

[02:45:14]

xinli:

ah. ok. I don't. just one single processor.

[02:45:23]

wagnerrp:

P4?

[02:45:26]

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[02:45:29]

xinli:

yes.

[02:45:36]

xinli:

P4 3.00GHz

[02:45:36]

wagnerrp:

hyperthreaded?

[02:45:44]

xinli:

yes, but I disabled it

[02:45:58]

xinli:

so my /proc/cpu just shows one CPU

[02:46:06]

wagnerrp:

then you shouldnt have any trouble using that tuner

[02:46:22]

xinli:

but my "scan channel" button was greyed out

[02:46:31]

xinli:

so is the "icon download" button

[02:46:44]

xinli:

I believe I choose the card type properly

[02:46:53]

wagnerrp:

dvb tuner

[02:46:57]

xinli:

yes.

[02:47:40]

xinli:

dvb dtv card v(3.x)

[02:48:01]

xinli:

after I added this, the buttons were still grey

[02:48:45]

xinli:

by the way, when I do something and get back to the main menu, my keyboard would not respond

[02:49:01]

unimaginative:

grr, the windows tools all suck for video editing.. how can I crop with linux?

[02:49:15]

unimaginative:

I don't have a linux gui in front of me, just CLI.

[02:49:25]

xinli:

I don't know if these are related

[02:49:28]

wagnerrp:

you added the card, added a source, linked the card to the source, and then tried to scan?

[02:49:35]

wagnerrp:

unimaginative: grab virtualdub

[02:49:42]

xinli:

ok. i probably missed the source part

[02:49:46]

unimaginative:

wagnerrp: linux or windows?

[02:49:50]

wagnerrp:

windows

[02:49:53]

unimaginative:

kk

[02:50:14]

wagnerrp:

avidemux is a similar tool for linux

[02:50:29]

wagnerrp:

xinli: you really need to follow mythtv-setup through each step

[02:50:40]

wagnerrp:

and if this is your first time using myth, you really need to follow a guide

[02:50:45]

wagnerrp:

its not entirely intuitive

[02:51:13]

unimaginative:

virtualdub says it can't decode mpeg-2 streams?

[02:51:37]

wagnerrp:

virtualdub should have a preprocessor for inputting mpeg 2

[02:51:56]

wagnerrp:

it does for me anyway

[02:53:02]

Staticwave_Ace:

so, anyone with ivtv having issues with recordings having no sound?

[02:53:15]

unimaginative:

Not I.

[02:53:56]

Staticwave_Ace:

hrmm

[02:54:27]

Staticwave_Ace:

hrm

[02:54:33]

xinli:

wagnerrp, yes. I should have checked more carefully. thanks!

[02:54:35]

Staticwave_Ace:

so the wiki has something "no sound on first recording"

[02:54:37]

Staticwave_Ace:

that should help

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[02:56:42]

J-e-f-f-A:

Staticwave_Ace: I have 'scratchy' audio on the 2nd tuner of my pVR-500, about 1/5 of the time...

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[02:57:04]

Staticwave_Ace:

yeah, this is a definite no-sound problem

[02:57:17]

Staticwave_Ace:

my pvr-500 is my backup to my hdhomerun

[02:57:24]

Staticwave_Ace:

so only when I have a lot of overlap does it record

[02:57:30]

Staticwave_Ace:

really, only one show a week

[02:57:35]

Staticwave_Ace:

but it's got no sound :-/

[02:57:49]

J-e-f-f-A:

Staticwave_Ace: I have both... HDHR for OTA HD... PVR500 and 250 for Dish Network STB's...

[02:58:10]

Staticwave_Ace:

yeah, mine isn't used that much

[02:58:16]

Staticwave_Ace:

is your backend on all the time?

[02:58:29]

J-e-f-f-A:

Staticwave_Ace: A-yup!

[02:58:32]

JEDIDIAH__:

Here's my mencoder crop option for x264.... CROP_OPTS=" -vf crop=720:360 -lavcopts aspect=16/9"

[02:58:47]

JEDIDIAH__:

I use that for stuff that's letterboxed by encoded in 4:3

[02:59:06]

Staticwave_Ace:

J-e-f-f-A: ah, see, I've got a combined frontend/backend that auto-starts up and shuts down when I'm not around

[02:59:13]

Staticwave_Ace:

I think its only the "first" recording

[02:59:42]

Bearcat:

arrgh! I can't be the only person getting this error message but i can't find any other trace of it

[03:00:14]

Staticwave_Ace:

J-e-f-f-A: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_PVR-500# . . . st_recording says to use ivtvctl, which... I don't have

[03:00:25]

sphery:

Bearcat: what error?

[03:00:49]

J-e-f-f-A:

Staticwave_Ace: I think the new utility is v4l2-ctl...

[03:01:15]

Staticwave_Ace:

think so too, just not sure of how those commands map to it

[03:01:21]

unimaginative:

So where could I host a 20MB video clip?

[03:01:32]

unimaginative:

for bugreport purposes

[03:01:44]

Staticwave_Ace:

unimaginative: you have no webspace?

[03:01:46]

wagnerrp:

rapidshare?

[03:01:50]

Bearcat:

sphery: when i try to grab fetch channel listings initially (fresh and new db) i get eno: Function not implemented (38)

[03:01:54]

wagnerrp:

megaupload

[03:02:08]

sphery:

Bearcat: for a scan?

[03:02:18]

Bearcat:

sphery: yes

[03:02:38]

Bearcat:

sphery: i have the complete error message which i can post here but it's a few lines long

[03:02:51]

sphery:

pastebin.ca , please

[03:03:20]

J-e-f-f-A:

Staticwave_Ace: My issue almost has me peeved enough to pull the 500, and drop the 150 and 350 I still have in there instead...

[03:03:38]

Bearcat:

sphery: thank you

[03:04:58]

Bearcat:

sphery: http://pastebin.ca/1342506 (i xxx-ed my user name and password of course)

[03:05:13]

sphery:

good

[03:05:49]

Bearcat:

sphery: i've also recompiled (i have a gentoo-like system) xmltv in case that was an issue.

[03:06:12]

sphery:

never fun to have to change them (I turned off my screensaver about 2 weeks ago, the monitor went to sleep, and I "logged in" while it was coming up, but the cursor was in a firefox window on Google, so I googled my password)

[03:06:26]

sphery:

Much better when you can change them at appropriate times

[03:06:27]

Staticwave_Ace:

J-e-f-f-A: success, found the corresponding setting in v4l2-ctl, I'll try adding it to my startup routine

[03:06:59]

J-e-f-f-A:

Jeeze... watching "Burn Notice" 'live' (as it records), and DirectTV DVR's apparently have web scheduling now...

[03:07:08]

sphery:

Bearcat: what version of wget do you have?

[03:07:20]

Bearcat:

gaze installed wget

[03:07:20]

Bearcat:

wget:

[03:07:20]

Bearcat:

1.11.4

[03:07:53]

** sphery wonders if wget changed something... **

[03:07:59]

J-e-f-f-A:

Staticwave_Ace: cool. ;-) I hope it works for you. None of the 'scratchy audio' suggestions worked for me... :-( And playing around with LiveTV reproduces it easily...

[03:09:19]

Staticwave_Ace:

well my pvr-500 sucks pretty badly anyways

[03:09:22]

Bearcat:

sphery: ahh, so you thing that error comes from wget?

[03:09:29]

sphery:

can't tell, yet

[03:09:40]

Staticwave_Ace:

I think because it's wedged mega-close to my videocard and hard drive

[03:10:11]

sphery:

it is of the form of a Myth verbose string

[03:11:35]

sphery:

OK, it's actually coming from Myth.

[03:11:53]

sphery:

but it's due to a failure in the execution of wget.

[03:12:29]

Bearcat:

for what it's worth i'm sure my password and un are correct as i just logged into scheduals direct with them

[03:12:52]

TomasuDlrrp is now known as Tomasu

[03:12:56]

Bearcat:

let try that wget command by itself outside of mythtv

[03:13:11]

sphery:

Bearcat: any special chars that might need shell-escaping?

[03:13:17]

sphery:

in username/password

[03:13:43]

Bearcat:

nothing above 255 ascii

[03:13:46]

Bearcat:

ahh

[03:13:52]

sphery:

I know we escape single tick ('), and it's surrounded in single tick, so double quote shouldn't be a problem

[03:14:00]

sphery:

but there may be others that we haven't thought of...

[03:14:12]

Bearcat:

not unless the @ is a problem

[03:14:37]

sphery:

can you try changing the password through SD, then in Myth, then retry the fetch?

[03:14:45]

sphery:

and don't use @ this time :)

[03:14:54]

wagnerrp:

whoops!

[03:15:03]

sphery:

If that's the problem, I'll write a patch for it.

[03:15:09]

wagnerrp:

i was trying to get a new revision of trunk built before 9pm

[03:15:24]

wagnerrp:

but i ran out of time, cancelled the build, restarted the backend, and realized it was actually 10pm

[03:15:27]

cconstantine:

has anyone here played around with mythweb flv playback (or the use of ffmpeg to convert .nuv to .flv)? I'm getting floating point exceptions.

[03:15:31]

Bearcat:

sphery: look @ (ha) this first: http://pastebin.ca/1342516

[03:15:57]

sphery:

Bearcat: eno: Function not implemented (38)

[03:15:58]

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[03:16:16]

sphery:

sorry, that was just my standard response to a command with an @ it in

[03:16:21]

sphery:

in it

[03:16:27]

Bearcat:

ha ha ha

[03:16:54]

sphery:

you have no /tmp?

[03:16:59]

sphery:

that could cause the problem

[03:17:03]

Bearcat:

i do

[03:17:09]

sphery:

is it 1777 perms?

[03:17:20]

Bearcat:

i just did a touch /tmp/mythtv_post_t7lyMj

[03:17:41]

sphery:

ls -ld /tmp should give: drwxrwxrwt 5 root root 4096 2009-02–19 22:04 /tmp/

[03:17:51]

Bearcat:

now that no such file or dir error dissapeared

[03:18:02]

wagnerrp:

think a 1.93GHz AthXP would have enough power for ATSC?

[03:18:26]

sphery:

yeah, that file is the file that's created by the wget command that's failing

[03:18:41]

Bearcat:

sphery: however i still get HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 401 Unauthorized Which sounds to me like a password problem

[03:18:42]

sphery:

(is the file that /should/ be created, that is :)

[03:18:48]

Bearcat:

allright i'll try changing it

[03:18:52]

sphery:

thx...

[03:18:59]

sphery:

If it fixes it, please let me know so I can patch it.

[03:19:14]

Bearcat:

of course

[03:19:20]

sphery:

And, feel free to try all other shell-special chars so you can get me the whole list. ;)

[03:19:28]

sphery:

BTW, which shell? dash?

[03:19:41]

Bearcat:

ha yeah

[03:19:43]

Bearcat:

bash

[03:19:53]

sphery:

really, bash? Not dash?

[03:19:59]

sphery:

echo $SHELL

[03:20:09]

sphery:

for the user who's running mythtv-setup

[03:20:40]

sphery:

(I was thinking that Ubuntu was running dash, now, and I don't think the @ would be a problem in bash--but it may be...)

[03:20:50]

Bearcat:

ubuntu

[03:20:54]

Bearcat:

this is sourcemage

[03:21:45]

sphery:

I was just assuming Ubuntu...

[03:22:09]

sphery:

seems to be a large portion of users, anymore (what with how nice MythBuntu has become)

[03:22:39]

sphery:

but, if it's source-based, are you /sure/ you've got wget compiled with gzip support?

[03:22:53]

Bearcat:

ok, i changed the password and still the same thing

[03:22:57]

Bearcat:

let me double check that

[03:22:59]

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[03:24:32]

coolego1:

is the only thing that would cause tearing in video the video output card, or could the capture card be responsible?

[03:24:44]

Bearcat:

sphery: well looking at that command, it ends in |gzip -df that would tell me that it's piped to gzip, not that gzip is being utilized in wget, right?

[03:25:02]

sphery:

you're right...

[03:25:11]

sphery:

we're just sending the header that asks for gzip encoding...

[03:25:14]

sphery:

sorry

[03:25:17]

sphery:

getting late

[03:25:22]

Bearcat:

not a problem

[03:28:40]

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[03:29:20]

sphery:

OK, I'm 99.99999% positive it couldn't possibly be a special character in the password if you're using bash.

[03:29:35]

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[03:29:39]

Bearcat:

right and i just changed my password to something plain

[03:29:51]

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[03:30:08]

sphery:

yeah, just verifying for my sake, there...

[03:30:22]

sphery:

I'm currently looking at failure modes of DataDirectProcessor::DDPost() for clues

[03:30:30]

Bearcat:

when i do the wget and i remove the --header switch i get onnecting to webservices.schedulesdirect.tmsdatadirect.com|206.18.98.175|:80... connected.

[03:30:31]

Bearcat:

HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 401 Unauthorized

[03:30:31]

Bearcat:

Reusing existing connection to webservices.schedulesdirect.tmsdatadirect.com:80.

[03:30:42]

Bearcat:

HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK

[03:30:42]

Bearcat:

Length: unspecified [text/xml]

[03:30:44]

Bearcat:

Saving to: `STDOUT'

[03:30:47]

Bearcat:

2009-02–19 20:26:44 (0.00 B/s) – `-' saved [0]

[03:31:02]

sphery:

Hmmm.... Perhaps new wget changed --header

[03:31:04]

Bearcat:

so that's progress but it doesn't download anything

[03:31:11]

Bearcat:

how new is this version?

[03:31:26]

sphery:

well, newer than mine--I was assuming the newest

[03:31:31]

sphery:

guess I should look

[03:31:42]

Bearcat:

wow

[03:32:03]

sphery:

yeah, it's the newest

[03:32:04]

Bearcat:

my spell for wget was updated to that version on 6/30/2008

[03:32:08]

Bearcat:

so it

[03:32:14]

Bearcat:

it's not that new

[03:32:18]

sphery:

but it's 29 Jun 2008, so others likely would have found issues

[03:32:27]

Bearcat:

right

[03:33:16]

sphery:

manual still shows it: http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/manual/html_ . . . Options.html

[03:33:32]

sphery:

when you don't remove --header, it fails on the command line?

[03:34:00]

Bearcat:

when i don't remove the header i get what i posted in pastebin

[03:34:21]

Bearcat:

now, the log in for scheduals direct is the same as the login you use to grab data right?

[03:34:22]

sphery:

so you mean you removed --header from the Myth source and it worked?

[03:34:33]

sphery:

yeah

[03:34:37]

sphery:

same login

[03:34:50]

Bearcat:

no no, i just copied the command that myth was using as i saw it in my terminal

[03:35:00]

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[03:35:29]

sphery:

what's the exact output when you use in the terminal the wget command exactly the same as the log

[03:35:34]

Bearcat:

yes

[03:35:51]

sphery:

oh...

[03:35:54]

sphery:

I got it.

[03:35:56]

Bearcat:

i copied everything between the parenthethese

[03:35:57]

sphery:

again, late.

[03:36:06]

Bearcat:

yeah ^o.o^

[03:36:14]

Bearcat:

what cha got

[03:36:40]

sphery:

OK... the post data file is created to contain the post parameters that are required for successfully requesting the data from SD...

[03:37:17]

Bearcat:

ok

[03:37:25]

sphery:

It would be wonderful if you could run mythtv-setup's fetch channels and "steal" the post data file to use in the terminal to test it

[03:37:49]

sphery:

I didn't realize that bottom one in the pastebin was a test outside myth...

[03:37:59]

Bearcat:

oh

[03:38:02]

Bearcat:

yes it is

[03:38:19]

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[03:38:40]

Bearcat:

let me try that but myth deletes it quickly

[03:41:03]

Bearcat:

nope. it deletes it in a milisecond

[03:41:18]

Bearcat:

"deleting temporary files"

[03:41:27]

Bearcat:

or it never gets a chance to create it

[03:42:00]

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[03:45:04]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro__: You around? ;-)

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[03:49:06]

sphery:

Bearcat: hmmm... I was trying to see if the following would work, but it might not--depending on how fast the file's deleted: again=1; while [ $again -eq 1 ]; do cp /tmp/mythtv_post* /tmp/mypostdata 2>/dev/null ; again=$?; done; unset again

[03:50:06]

Bearcat:

well the file is created by the wget right? If the wget is failing then the file is never created..

[03:50:21]

sphery:

actually, it's created by Myth for use by wget

[03:50:27]

sphery:

I had that wrong earlier

[03:50:36]

Bearcat:

ahh ok

[03:53:28]

sphery:

And, now, I think I can give you the contents of that file...

[03:54:28]

Bearcat:

i tried that loop. Good idea but no dice

[03:55:13]

Bearcat:

nothing was copied

[03:55:27]

sphery:

It's deleted too fast. Hold on...

[03:56:04]

sphery:

http://pastebin.ca/1342544

[03:56:22]

sphery:

thought it would be easier to grab it than to just read the code, but I was wrong...

[03:56:37]

sphery:

(it was hard to grab and it was surprisingly easy to get from the code)

[03:57:39]

sphery:

Did you by any chance compile myth yourself?

[03:58:03]

Bearcat:

i "cast" it. (think of it as a gentoo emerge)

[03:58:26]

sphery:

Would it be possible to change line 22 of mythtv/libs/libmythtv/datadirect.cpp to: #define SHOW_WGET_OUTPUT 1

[03:58:43]

sphery:

(the value in the default is 0, we want to enable it so we can see the results)

[03:58:45]

Bearcat:

sure

[03:59:02]

sphery:

Of course, that would require another make install, too...

[03:59:38]

Bearcat:

no probs

[03:59:46]

clever:

in theory, you only make to cd mythtv/libs/libmythtv/ && make && sudo make install

[04:00:09]

clever:

faster then a full reinstall, but you would still need to shut things down

[04:00:16]

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[04:01:30]

Bearcat:

nahh, i just unpack the sourcecode, make the change, tar it up and copy it to /var/cache/sorcery, then do cast -r mythtv

[04:01:33]

Bearcat:

easy :")

[04:02:25]

sphery:

Bearcat: glibc 2.9 something?

[04:02:32]

sphery:

//www.mail-archive.com/debian-glibc@lists.debian.org/msg39843.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-glibc@list . . . sg39843.html

[04:02:52]

sphery:

may be a bug in your popen implementation (in glibc)

[04:03:11]

Bearcat:

yup 2.9

[04:03:16]

sphery:

I should have started there...

[04:03:41]

sphery:

is it a released version or an rc or beta or whatever?

[04:03:59]

Bearcat:

nope. 2.9

[04:04:04]

Bearcat:

released

[04:04:13]

sphery:

looking for the Debian patch...

[04:04:33]

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[04:06:36]

sphery:

they used Gentoo's patch... submitted-popen.diff

[04:06:39]

sphery:

looking for it

[04:07:24]

Bearcat:

i'm recompiling mythtv with that change, so we'll see what happens (this will take a few minues)

[04:07:42]

sphery:

yeah, I don't think it will do anything useful...

[04:07:52]

sphery:

I'm 99.99999% positive it's the popen bug

[04:07:54]

Bearcat:

might as well

[04:12:37]

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[04:13:34]

sphery:

Bearcat: looks like this on: http://patch-tracking.debian.net/patch/series . . . d-popen.diff

[04:14:10]

sphery:

Note, though, it's a patch to glibc, which is the basis of your entire system, so not only would it be, er, ugly to fix now, it may have undesired effects...

[04:14:14]

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[04:14:42]

Bearcat:

sphery: ohh, yes i know what glibc is :")

[04:14:53]

Bearcat:

yeah, i may just wait a bit

[04:14:57]

sphery:

yeah, I just don't want to recommend that you patch something so critical...

[04:15:02]

Bearcat:

thank you for helping me track this down.

[04:15:21]

sphery:

I'll mention the issue to danielk (the guy who knows the SD code) and see if he has a preference for a workaround.

[04:15:32]

sphery:

I'm sure others will start to notice this before long...

[04:15:53]

sphery:

Thanks for your patience while debugging... I should have gotten there much earlier--guess it just means it's time for bed.

[04:17:21]

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[04:19:58]

Bearcat:

sphery: no problems. I would not have discovered it myself

[04:20:15]

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[04:25:27]

Bearcat:

so thank you sphery

[04:29:15]

sphery:

you're welcome... Sorry I can't fix it for you.

[04:29:44]

sphery:

I left a message for daniel, and it's possible that trunk will be changed to fix it, but I'm not sure there's anything we can do about -fixes...

[04:30:22]

sphery:

(Qt3 in -fixes is missing some stuff we'd need to do it--but then again, it's likely that the Qt4 stuff just wraps popen, so it may not actualy "fix" it even if we change it...)

[04:31:02]

sphery:

Bearcat: oh, and thanks for an interesting question/hunt. Much better than the same-old, same-old. :)

[04:31:35]

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[04:32:19]

EnderTheThird:

Anyone else using MythFlash with MythWeb right now?

[04:32:38]

Bearcat:

sphery: *grins* cool.

[04:33:13]

sphery:

EnderTheThird: not I... My backends can't even decode the video in real time, let alone /trans/code it in real time.

[04:33:54]

EnderTheThird:

sphery, heh, got ya. I'm not sure how to set it up. all the howto's are for downloading an old hacked together .zip file. not sure what to do with what's in mythextras on svn

[04:34:28]

Bearcat:

sphery: could i do it with my quad-core and 4 gigs of ram?

[04:35:10]

sphery:

Bearcat: no, because you can't get your channels :p

[04:35:47]

sphery:

EnderTheThird: TTBOMK, "it's in there" already, but it's just disabled. There are instructions for how to enable it <somewhere>...

[04:36:26]

sphery:

that somewhere may be in the mythweb.conf-apache or on the wiki or in the README... But, it's simple to do once you find them.

[04:36:31]

Bearcat:

sphery: ha ha ha ah ah ah

[04:36:35]

EnderTheThird:

yeah, the somewhere part is where i'm having trouble, heh

[04:36:52]

sphery:

sorry, I'm not the one to help

[04:37:02]

EnderTheThird:

thanks though :)

[04:39:58]

EnderTheThird:

Anyone else have any ideas?

[04:40:45]

Bearcat:

not i. i'm still trying get it up

[04:40:49]

Bearcat:

and working.

[04:40:58]

Bearcat:

... bad place to hit 'enter'

[04:41:05]

sphery:

heh

[04:41:10]

sphery:

they have a pill...

[04:41:22]

Bearcat:

will the pill fix glibc?

[04:42:00]

wagnerrp:

EnderTheThird: mythflash... you mean the hack that would add a 'transcode to flash' job, as well as a line in mythweb through which to access the transcoded video?

[04:42:12]

sphery:

EnderTheThird: http://pastebin.ca/1342571 from the translation files... Which seems to be the "help" text for a setting that enables it

[04:42:27]

sphery:

question is where?

[04:42:32]

sphery:

seems wagnerrp may know

[04:42:59]

EnderTheThird:

wagnerrp: that's the one. it keeps the original recordings though, right? (don't want flash video to replace my HD shows, heh)

[04:43:16]

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[04:43:19]

wagnerrp:

ignore that entire page on the wiki, there is no use for it anymore

[04:43:29]

wagnerrp:

if you go into the settings on mythweb

[04:43:50]

wagnerrp:

there is an experimental feature to transcode on-the-fly, and a built in flash player for mythweb

[04:43:59]

sphery:

d'oh... found it

[04:44:19]

sphery:

It's under Settings|MythWeb|Video Playback

[04:45:23]

EnderTheThird:

Found it. apparently my ffmpeg doesn't have mp3 support. d'oh~

[04:45:35]

sphery:

wouldn't have found it if wagnerrp hadn't confirmed it's there.

[04:45:42]

sphery:

EnderTheThird: *buntu

[04:45:45]

EnderTheThird:

wagnerrp: thanks

[04:46:41]

sphery:

mp3 is patent encumbered, so *buntu (or Debian) can't include it by default

[04:46:51]

EnderTheThird:

sphery: should i just compile from svn then?

[04:47:01]

sphery:

there's a repo that has it

[04:47:14]

sphery:

but I don't know *buntu, so I don't know which

[04:47:14]

wagnerrp:

were you looking for that option? or were you looking to do this... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Stream_mythtv_reco . . . _flash_video ?

[04:47:19]

sphery:

universe, perhaps?

[04:48:33]

EnderTheThird:

wagnerrp: just something to do flash on-the-fly if i'm bored at work/school and want to watch my shows via flash.

[04:48:49]

Bearcat:

sphery: if there is a bug on glibc why aren't we seeing panic? I would think this would have messed up more than a few apps

[04:50:06]

wagnerrp:

so hulu has requested to be taken off boxee

[04:50:16]

wagnerrp:

i guess that means mythvodka is dead too

[04:50:53]

EnderTheThird:

bummer. hulu is great, but the interface is too desktopy. I'd love to be able to use it with my HTPC but it just sucks like that

[04:51:26]

wagnerrp:

hulu has no ads on their site, only ads in their videos

[04:51:30]

mikegriffin:

i can never figure out how to escape flash apps with the mouse, i have to hit esc

[04:51:38]

wagnerrp:

i dont see why they couldnt just provide video streams

[04:52:02]

wagnerrp:

i mean its not like flash really provides any amount of security

[04:52:20]

wagnerrp:

every flash player ive seen stores the file, start to finish, in the web browser cache

[04:52:37]

wagnerrp:

all you have to do is pull the file, and you have a digital copy

[04:53:21]

sphery:

Bearcat: It only affects glibc built with certain (older) kernel headers (that would be the "system" kernel headers)... The kernel headers used for building the system libs should /never/ be changed, so any distros using glibc 2.9 (and I'm guessing that in itself is a small number of them) may or may not have used a "good enough" version of kernel headers.

[04:53:38]

Bearcat:

ahh ok

[04:54:27]

** iamlindoro giggles at the guy on the list complaining about trunk having low WAF **

[04:54:33]

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[04:54:43]

wagnerrp:

i think ill try that right now

[04:55:33]

sphery:

iamlindoro: heh, that's awesome

[04:56:18]

iamlindoro:

MythUI is *hard* to document

[04:56:28]

** sphery wonders why glibc-2.8 and 2.9 aren't at http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/glibc/ **

[04:56:36]

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[04:56:55]

iamlindoro:

sphery, I'd really like to figure out collapsing and expanding in mediawiki, it's practically essential for this page

[04:57:20]

iamlindoro:

especially nested collapsing/expanding, that would be a big help

[04:57:43]

sphery:

iamlindoro: yeah... and while you're at it, figure out how you can have uneditable MythTV HOWTO with editable/insertable user annotations that are collapsed by default. :)

[04:57:59]

iamlindoro:

I'll get right on that, cap'n

[04:58:11]

sphery:

oh, and huge thanks for working on the mythui docs, too... nice to have someone taking some of the load off gbee's shoulders

[04:58:24]

EnderTheThird:

checkinstall keeps failing due to files/directories not existing (using it with --install=no). any way to make it create those instead of me making these directories every time it fails?

[04:58:29]

sphery:

he's been a busy gbee lately

[04:58:48]

iamlindoro:

least I can do for all the work he's put in (lots of it at my request)

[04:59:00]

sphery:

iamlindoro: you know how to get MP3 support in ffmpeg in *buntu for EnderTheThird

[04:59:14]

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[04:59:16]

sphery:

that was a question

[04:59:22]

sphery:

(stupid forgotten punctuation)

[04:59:24]

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[04:59:33]

iamlindoro:

Used to be in medibuntu, but now it's in actual ubuntu repositories with a different name

[04:59:36]

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[04:59:43]

iamlindoro:

like ffmpeg-nonfree or some nonsense

[04:59:47]

shabati:

Hello everyone,

[04:59:58]

shabati:

Is it possible to control Mythtv over ssh?

[05:00:20]

EnderTheThird:

sphery: i was just going to compile svn. make didn't have any trouble. it's just a pain doing checkinstall and having it stop every 2 seconds until i create a directory. i do the same thing for myth via svn

[05:00:34]

EnderTheThird:

iamlindoro: thanks, i'll check if i have medibuntu repo's enabled real quick

[05:00:46]

iamlindoro:

no, like I said, it's *not* there any more

[05:00:56]

EnderTheThird:

oh, i misread. i'm a putz

[05:00:58]

sphery:

Ahhh... Changes at GNU's libc... "Releases are available by CVS branch checkout only." Makes it annoyingly hard to find out when 2.9 was released... Wonder if they have a cvsweb?

[05:01:46]

iamlindoro:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/medibuntu/+bug/291011

[05:02:00]

iamlindoro:

see the first response

[05:02:15]

sphery:

thx... I was way out of my area of expertise

[05:02:32]

iamlindoro:

"unstripped," how descriptive :)

[05:02:54]

iamlindoro:

I generally solve that problem with a nice dinner and a movie

[05:03:43]

wagnerrp:

shabati: no, but its possible to control mythfrontend over telnet (or rather more correctly a text socket)

[05:04:00]

wagnerrp:

and you can always tunnel telnet over ssh, or ssh in and run a local telnet client

[05:04:30]

wagnerrp:

its on port 6546

[05:04:34]

EnderTheThird:

heh, i wondered what unstripped was referring to when i saw those being installed a while back. i think some of them were removed when i did a build-dep for myth

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[05:08:01]

sphery:

Bearcat: looks like glibc 2.9 was only release in Dec or so--somewhere around 20081201, so likely few distros have updated to it, yet. Those that have have likely already identified/patched the bug or happened to use new-enough kernel headers that it didn't matter. You may want to raise a bug upstream with the wizards at sourcemage (making things up, so if it's not right, that's because I know nothing about sourcemage)

[05:08:48]

Bearcat:

sphery: ahh

[05:09:10]

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[05:10:24]

EnderTheThird:

iamlindoro: unstripped didn't make a difference. mythweb still tells me my ffmpeg doesn't have required mp3 support

[05:11:11]

sphery:

weren't there changes in newer ffmpeg arguments that require a patch to MythWeb?

[05:12:18]

iamlindoro:

check your ffmpeg and see if it has mp3 encoding support

[05:12:21]

iamlindoro:

ffmpeg -formats

[05:12:26]

iamlindoro:

if itdoesn't, you did something wrong

[05:12:39]

Bearcat:

well folks, i'm out for the night

[05:12:46]

Bearcat:

thanks again sphery

[05:13:14]

EnderTheThird:

it's there if i check ffmpeg

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[05:13:43]

iamlindoro:

sphery, It would have to be awfully new ffmpeg, I doubt ubuntu's repositories are that new

[05:13:54]

iamlindoro:

sphery, And it works in mythbuntu, so presumably they're the same packages

[05:14:08]

sphery:

oh, then it's not that...

[05:14:20]

EnderTheThird:

i am running from svn.

[05:14:21]

sphery:

just a half memory, so I'm probably wrong, anyway

[05:14:26]

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[05:14:26]

iamlindoro:

actually, with that in mind it's 100% a case of "you did something wrong"

[05:14:41]

iamlindoro:

EnderTheThird, Unless you mean svn ffmpeg...

[05:14:57]

iamlindoro:

and if you mean svn myth, I'll assume you mean... hmm.. I pick... .18 svn

[05:15:00]

EnderTheThird:

r20018 for myth. ffmpeg is from ubuntu repo's plus the unstripped stuff you mentioned

[05:15:01]

sphery:

I hear Myth trunk has low WAF.

[05:15:07]

iamlindoro:

I heard that too

[05:15:11]

iamlindoro:

douchebag devs

[05:15:21]

iamlindoro:

always unstableifying my mythtv trunk

[05:15:30]

iamlindoro:

and declaring things from on high

[05:17:29]

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[05:21:31]

EnderTheThird:

Something is funky. Tried ffmpeg from SVN, installed with no problems. tried mythbackend as root and restarted apache, but no diff

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[05:24:49]

EnderTheThird:

Oh well. That's enough for tonight. Thanks.

[05:24:54]

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[07:04:15]

** justinh wonders how to compare two mythrects **

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[07:12:46]

wagnerrp:

i need another monitor

[07:12:55]

wagnerrp:

too much to display on these three

[07:13:17]

justinh:

I recently cut my desktop machine down to one

[07:13:25]

wagnerrp:

ouch

[07:13:26]

justinh:

hardly ever even used the 2nd

[07:13:49]

justinh:

plus I gained more space by putting the old 1" monitor on my backend in place of a 19" CRT

[07:13:54]

wagnerrp:

justinh needs moar multitasking

[07:13:58]

justinh:

17" not 1"

[07:14:02]

justinh:

bah

[07:14:24]

justinh:

only time I ever used the 2nd monitor in anger was when I was scribbling themes out

[07:15:04]

justinh:

so I'm not likely to ever need a 2nd monitor again :)

[07:15:52]

wagnerrp:

for some reason, i have an aversion to minimizing or stacking windows

[07:16:50]

justinh:

even when I'm developing I'd only have 3 or 4 windows open

[07:17:17]

wagnerrp:

the problem is that my memory is horrible for important things

[07:17:45]

justinh:

besides in linux when I had 2 monitors connected the login screen _always_ came up on the 2nd monitor rather than what I considered the main one

[07:17:48]

wagnerrp:

so if im developing, i usually have 5–6 vim terminals open with different files, tracing program flow

[07:17:56]

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[07:17:58]

justinh:

vim. ah no wonder

[07:18:01]

wagnerrp:

and another 2–3 browsers open to various programming guides

[07:18:19]

justinh:

I use geany now. tabbed file editor :)

[07:18:31]

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[07:18:33]

wagnerrp:

well gvim has tabs

[07:18:46]

wagnerrp:

but with tabs, you cant look at two things at once

[07:19:07]

justinh:

no memory persistence at all eh. sucky

[07:19:09]

wagnerrp:

why flip a tab when you can just go to the next window over

[07:19:17]

justinh:

why $anything?

[07:19:25]

wagnerrp:

exactly!

[07:19:26]

justinh:

why bother? ;)

[07:20:05]

justinh:

this code has become my nemesis

[07:20:36]

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[07:20:49]

justinh:

such a simple premise. much more complex in reality

[07:21:18]

wagnerrp:

i know the feeling

[07:21:48]

justinh:

hahaha I was searching for stuff & stumbled upon pastebins of my earlier diffs

[07:22:41]

wagnerrp:

whats even more fun is when you have to program in workaround for specific instances

[07:22:53]

wagnerrp:

ive found that really balloons simple ideas

[07:23:12]

justinh:

yeah well, edge cases are like that

[07:23:59]

justinh:

in the instance of what I'm hacking up, outside the intended usage certain xml tags will result in slightly weird behaviour

[07:24:32]

justinh:

e.g. using autosize buttonlists in a grid format.. though I haven't got that to work yet

[07:25:02]

justinh:

that'

[07:26:01]

justinh:

hmmm. easiest way to compare two areas would just be to pull the height & width of both into INTs and compare em like that

[07:26:27]

justinh:

there might not even be a QRect comparison available.

[07:26:39]

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[07:27:31]

wagnerrp:

mythtranscode cant generate a keyframe index as its going? it has to go back and do it afterwards?

[07:27:57]

justinh:

not without a patch ;)

[07:28:19]

justinh:

besides it's probably safer to do it afterwards

[07:28:39]

wagnerrp:

ive just got a ssh window up polling network traffic on my file server

[07:28:41]

justinh:

generating it as it goes would very much depend on it being successful in the first place

[07:29:07]

wagnerrp:

and its been pushing 20MB/s for some time now, with relatively little upstream traffic

[07:29:17]

wagnerrp:

found it odd

[07:29:23]

justinh:

and AFAIK the original file isn't touched until the transcode is successful

[07:29:37]

justinh:

non-destructiveness is good :)

[07:29:51]

wagnerrp:

heroes is bigger clipped than 24 was to begin with

[07:30:40]

justinh:

I used to watch Heroes. Lost all interest in it early in Season 3

[07:30:46]

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[07:31:15]

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[07:31:22]

justinh:

they lost their way, and lost me in the process :P

[07:31:43]

justinh:

24 has been good fun so far this season though

[07:32:04]

justinh:

better now they've shed so many deus ex machina too

[07:32:37]

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[07:32:43]

wagnerrp:

what do you mean? they still have chloe and her magical computer

[07:33:12]

wagnerrp:

'how about i throw some libraries at that problem'

[07:33:29]

justinh:

I said _some_ :)

[07:34:10]

justinh:

those Apple machines must have some power though. Seems all you need is one of those & all the networks are belong to you :P

[07:34:37]

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[07:34:49]

wagnerrp:

i know, even a 14yr old laptop was able to pwn an alien supercomputer

[07:35:20]

wagnerrp:

jeff goldblum told me so

[07:36:20]

justinh:

oh dear. we just had a palette of 400 HDDs delivered here by mistake. 1TB HDDs. Just put it in the boot of my car be a good man

[07:36:53]

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[07:36:56]

wagnerrp:

you would have to sell a good lot of those to pay for the hardware to hook them up

[07:37:17]

justinh:

one box of 20 would do me, you're right

[07:37:27]

clever:

lol

[07:37:37]

clever:

400 tb worth of drives....

[07:37:42]

kormoc:

I'd slowly pay for all the hardware to hook them up...

[07:37:48]

** poodyp wonders how many backends he'd have to run to use all that **

[07:37:53]

wagnerrp:

can you get a bare sun 'thumper'?

[07:38:10]

kormoc:

You can chain usb hubs what? up to 5 deep?

[07:38:18]

clever:

poodyp: what about multirec recording every channel on every transport at once?

[07:38:25]

kormoc:

grab a few usb enclosures and some large hubs...

[07:38:39]

justinh:

and some ear defenders

[07:38:44]

poodyp:

hehe

[07:38:49]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: but wheres the fun in that

[07:38:52]

poodyp:

never miss a show ever

[07:38:54]

clever:

kormoc: your limited to ~128 devices per root usb port

[07:39:14]

kormoc:

so four root ports and you're golden

[07:39:19]

poodyp:

how many can firewire support?

[07:39:22]

wagnerrp:

isnt it technically 127, since the root itself takes one?

[07:39:25]

wagnerrp:

firewire is 63

[07:39:35]

poodyp:

that's it?

[07:39:40]

kormoc:

justinh, the power bill will be the hard bit

[07:39:49]

wagnerrp:

yes... *only* 63 devices

[07:40:04]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: i dont know, only ~10W per drive

[07:40:10]

justinh:

I could manage 20. sell the rest :)

[07:40:17]

wagnerrp:

plus another 5W per brick

[07:40:28]

wagnerrp:

love them wall worts

[07:40:51]

justinh:

prolly more efficient to heat the house too

[07:41:03]

wagnerrp:

than?

[07:41:07]

justinh:

gas

[07:41:16]

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[07:41:35]

wagnerrp:

energy efficient, maybe. cost efficient, absolutely not

[07:41:39]

** poodyp wonders how many SAS cards he could fit in his case **

[07:41:45]

kormoc:

seems like I'd pay $1.13 per month per drive if they use 15 watts 24x7, or 452 a month for the full lot

[07:41:56]

justinh:

oof

[07:43:07]

wagnerrp:

well just put them in standby!

[07:43:10]

poodyp:

well that'd be full 24x7 read/write

[07:43:47]

wagnerrp:

poodyp: hard drives dont really use much more power for read/write than just keeping the disk spinning

[07:45:37]

wagnerrp:

seems you cannot buy a X4500 sans drives

[07:46:15]

poodyp:

well if you're smart you'll have something to spin down the drives after some time

[07:46:35]

wagnerrp:

poodyp: raid systems dont much like being spun down

[07:46:48]

wagnerrp:

some do better than others

[07:46:59]

wagnerrp:

enabling it on my card resulted in some data corruption

[07:47:08]

poodyp:

ouch

[07:47:16]

poodyp:

hardware raid?

[07:47:23]

wagnerrp:

yeah\

[07:49:06]

justinh:

ouch. first 185kWh are 24.18 pence each

[07:49:35]

justinh:

then 1218kWh at 10.69p

[07:49:57]

poodyp:

you get a bulk discount?

[07:50:17]

justinh:

nah standard practise here

[07:55:11]

justinh:

heh. saving 6.5p per day with my 80plus PSU

[07:55:53]

justinh:

it'll take a year and a half to pay for itself though

[07:56:29]

wagnerrp:

seems suspend ... kindof works... on this box

[07:56:35]

wagnerrp:

it came out of suspend, without video

[07:57:23]

wagnerrp:

starting X brings it back though

[07:57:48]

poodyp:

ati video card?

[07:58:04]

wagnerrp:

nvidia

[07:58:19]

wagnerrp:

display comes back if X is loaded, but not if in the terminal

[07:58:45]

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[07:58:52]

wagnerrp:

i seem to have completely lost the local terminal

[07:59:00]

wagnerrp:

not a real problem for a frontend

[08:01:45]

wagnerrp:

transcode of house seems to have barfed on a partial frame

[08:02:44]

clever:

i get similar problems when the ati driver screws up

[08:02:54]

clever:

all text mode consoles are 'toast'

[08:03:13]

clever:

its editing the video memory like its a text mode, while trying to display it as image data

[08:03:41]

clever:

so the top 20 rows of pixels are changing from the 'text' its displaying

[08:04:02]

clever:

the rest is just whatever desktop image i had at the ctrl+alt+backspace

[08:04:29]

clever:

usualy with the colors fading and shifting like im on some weird drug:P

[08:04:45]

poodyp:

sounds trippy

[08:04:49]

clever:

yeah

[08:05:05]

poodyp:

find a way to do it full screen and use it as a screen saver?

[08:05:19]

clever:

it only happens when Xorg shuts down improperly

[08:05:38]

clever:

and it used to also hardlock the system:P

[08:05:39]

poodyp:

ah

[08:06:01]

clever:

over time the drivers got better

[08:06:23]

clever:

i can usualy run 'startx' blindly in the text console and get it back to a usable condition(gui working normaly)

[08:06:34]

poodyp:

using fglrx or radeon/radeonhd?

[08:07:05]

clever:

01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage Mobility M3 AGP 2x (rev 02)

[08:07:12]

clever:

that card is too old for fglrx

[08:07:13]

wagnerrp:

hey, ive got one of those!

[08:07:21]

clever:

its the one that gave the most trouble

[08:07:24]

poodyp:

wow

[08:07:28]

wagnerrp:

good ol' r128

[08:07:32]

clever:

01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon RV250 [Mobility FireGL 9000] (rev 02)

[08:07:45]

clever:

but just recently, this card has begun doing the same thing for the first time

[08:08:04]

wagnerrp:

the only trouble that card ever gave me was having to drop to 16-bit mode to get 3D acceleration working

[08:08:58]

clever:

i tried that but i think things just got worse

[08:09:03]

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[08:09:20]

clever:

and compiz has enough lag with 512mb of ram and swapping

[08:09:33]

clever:

the ati rage system has 256mb

[08:09:53]

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[08:10:02]

poodyp:

shared ram?

[08:10:13]

poodyp:

I don't remember cards that old having that much

[08:10:34]

poodyp:

I think that was the time when 32mb was zomg hueg

[08:10:49]

[Peter]:

I think that's the system RAM, not video RAM ;)

[08:10:57]

clever:

Region 0: Memory at f8000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=64M]

[08:11:05]

clever:

i think it has its own 64mb of ram

[08:11:15]

poodyp:

ah

[08:11:17]

clever:

linux is reading 255588k system ram

[08:11:27]

clever:

if it was sharing then it would have a weird chunk missing

[08:11:45]

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[08:13:13]

clever:

one of the bigger problems im trying to track down is how the whole linux kernel gets 'borked' if i use virtualbox

[08:14:24]

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[09:00:33]

ccfreak2k:

I have an ATI Rage 128 Pro installed right now.

[09:00:38]

ccfreak2k:

It only has 32MB.

[09:02:13]

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[09:06:39]

ccfreak2k:

Still the ati driver seems to be worlds better with opengl "painting" than nv.

[09:06:50]

ccfreak2k:

At least when comparing this card to the TNT2 I have.

[09:09:33]

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[09:17:48]

justinh:

well, on ATI hardware the nv driver would be er.. quite impotent :P

[09:18:08]

Dibblah:

If you set it up to use nv, it'll probably fallback to vesa.

[09:18:33]

[Peter]:

I think he was using the nv driver on the TNT2 ;)

[09:26:16]

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[09:34:44]

justinh:

anyway, just about any of the closed source video drivers whoop the open source equivalent's ass

[09:34:58]

laga:

justinh: not when you compare their openness

[09:35:06]

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[09:35:10]

justinh:

workingness > openness

[09:35:16]

laga:

:)

[09:36:17]

ccfreak2k:

Yes, I was using nv with the TNT2.

[09:36:38]

ccfreak2k:

justinh, the legacy nvidia driver had its own problems.

[09:39:43]

justinh:

well, 15+ year old cards have their problems too

[09:39:55]

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[09:43:05]

ccfreak2k:

The opengl paint engine isn't slow as hell with this Rage card, but some portion of the right side of menu text seems to be cut off.

[09:43:27]

ccfreak2k:

I can live without it, but I'm gonna see if I can fix it first.

[09:44:41]

[Peter]:

ccfreak2k: the nv driver doesn't have any opengl acceleration so it's no wonder it's slow as shit with it

[09:45:32]

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[09:46:23]

justinh:

ffs freeview channel numbers to change. AGAIN

[09:47:25]

justinh:

On Tuesday, February 24, ITV4 will move from channel 28 to 24; CITV will move from 75 to 72; ITV2+1 will move from 31 to 27; E4 will move from 29 to 28; and E4+1 will move from 30 to 29.

[09:47:26]

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[09:47:38]

justinh:

won't affect me much then :)

[09:47:39]

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[09:59:29]

justinh:

bloody asda.com messing me about. ordered a couple of CDs they (allegedly) had in stock last weekend. now they're saying an expected delivery date of 3 weeks from now. sod that!

[10:10:20]

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[10:37:54]

gbee:

hah, Boxee have apparently been told to stop providing access to Hulu content

[10:38:53]

gbee:

wasn't that pretty much the thing which everyone liked about Boxee vs XBMC? (I'll confess I don't really know much about either Boxee or XBMC)

[10:39:17]

tank-man:

does boxee have to comply?

[10:39:23]

ccfreak2k:

I don't even know what Boxee is.

[10:40:03]

justinh:

if boxee don't want to have the living hell sued out of their arse, they need to comply

[10:40:27]

tank-man:

boxee is a company?

[10:40:40]

gbee:

tank-man: of course they have to comply

[10:40:40]

justinh:

yup

[10:40:57]

gbee:

even if they were an individual, that wouldn't stop them being sued

[10:53:17]

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[10:53:52]

quicksilver:

justinh: will mythtv pick up the channel number changes on a rescan?

[10:55:33]

justinh:

quicksilver: should do

[10:55:50]

justinh:

wish to hell they'djust leave stuff alone for 5 minutes though

[10:56:46]

Dibblah:

Not sure it will.

[10:56:48]

** quicksilver seems to recall he had some difficulty with the last E4 number change **

[10:57:05]

Dibblah:

At least in trunk, the channel numbers are not properly assigned.

[10:57:47]

justinh:

Five US is changing name to Five USA too :-\

[10:58:13]

justinh:

Five Thursday is now known as Five Friday

[10:58:28]

justinh:

Five Friday will be known as Five Saturday from tomorrow

[11:08:57]

gbee:

Five Friday? Five Saturday?

[11:08:59]

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[11:09:16]

justinh:

their nom-du-jour:)

[11:09:28]

gbee:

literally :)

[11:09:57]

justinh:

this rescanning stuff is getting excessive now

[11:10:19]

justinh:

hope it settles down after switchover

[11:10:31]

gbee:

ok, so looking at Boxee screenshots, in particular – http://cache.lifehacker.com/assets/resources/ . . . activity.png

[11:11:04]

gbee:

I was already thinking about adding list within list support, but that has pushed me a little further in that direction

[11:11:16]

gbee:

not promising it for 0.22 though

[11:12:36]

justinh:

pulling the chroma out of graphical items looks nifty

[11:12:58]

justinh:

hadn't noticed that before

[11:13:08]

justinh:

desaturating :)

[11:13:40]

gbee:

I've already got that on my list, that one should be doable for 0.22

[11:17:19]

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[11:18:20]

ccfreak2k:

Hmm.

[11:18:32]

ccfreak2k:

I wonder if the text being cutoff in opengl is a texture size issue.

[11:19:00]

justinh:

more likely just the font size being wrong

[11:19:17]

justinh:

usually caused by not having the right font installed

[11:19:25]

justinh:

or setting the font size too high

[11:19:37]

ccfreak2k:

The text is fine in Qt mode but not opengl, so it doesn't seem likely.

[11:19:40]

ccfreak2k:

Worth a shot, though.

[11:20:09]

gbee:

more of a QT bug with calculating a string width

[11:20:44]

gbee:

or if you just mean 0.21, then it's merely that the themer didn't leave enough space for the text

[11:21:17]

justinh:

or the themer only tested it with the default font size

[11:22:16]

justinh:

ccfreak2k: if it bothers you that much, use different theme :)

[11:22:37]

gbee:

or it's the 'pain in my neck' font scaling issue, for which sphery might just have figured out a reasonable fix

[11:22:39]

justinh:

use *a* different theme. damn lag

[11:23:28]

ccfreak2k:

The best fix seems to be to just disable the opengl engine. :|

[11:24:07]

justinh:

which theme is it with anyway?

[11:25:12]

ccfreak2k:

Retro, lulius and MythCenter were affected (G.A.N.T. was the only other theme I tested, and it was slow in opengl anyway)/

[11:25:33]

justinh:

do you have msttcorefonts installed?

[11:26:04]

ccfreak2k:

Does webcore-fonts count?

[11:26:11]

justinh:

dunno

[11:26:26]

ccfreak2k:

http://slackbuilds.org/repository/12.2/system/webcore-fonts/

[11:26:28]

justinh:

if they don't provide Arial, Trebuchet MS et al... then no

[11:29:45]

justinh:

that core themes rely on MS fonts is sucky, but hopefully one day soon all those themes will be deprecated

[11:34:00]

gbee:

deleted

[11:41:19]

justinh:

damn Asda. 'Processing cancellation'. just _cancel_ the damn order

[11:41:54]

ruskie:

lol

[11:43:09]

justinh:

eff it. I'll just leave it, then if the CDs ever arrive I'll send them straight back & claim my refund under the distance selling regs

[11:43:28]

gbee:

well after staring at a lot of screenshots, I'd have to agree that aside from a small bit of Media Portal, XBMC and Boxee themes are the only ones worth mimicking

[11:44:06]

gbee:

and boxee is tricky since few of it's screens really correspond to anything in myth currently

[11:44:31]

gbee:

plus it does some context stuff that actually can't be replicated with mythui (yet)

[11:46:18]

justinh:

gonna take a walk through the code soon & start scribbling lists of usable fields

[11:48:47]

justinh:

gbee: if you get a sec could you take a look at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/hacks.diff please? just wondering if anything is fundamentally flawed in the collapsearea method before I bother trying to press on

[11:49:44]

justinh:

that diff just keeps getting bigger & bigger. hope I can remember what I'm supposed to be doing by the time comes to clean it up

[11:50:31]

ivor:

justinh: re fonts. interesting reading some of the info about the bitstream "fontfusion" product

[11:50:52]

ivor:

and how they have tweaked anti-aliasing mode for TV output.

[11:50:58]

justinh:

'fontfusion'? never heard of it

[11:51:21]

ivor:

link on other pc.. hold on.

[11:51:48]

justinh:

"Font Fusion is Bitstream.s premier font subsystem, rendering high-quality characters in any format, at any resolution, on any platform or device. Delivering exceptional text rendering for consumer electronics devices and mobile phones, Font Fusion is the ideal solution for small embedded systems. "

[11:52:23]

ivor:

http://www.bitstream.com/font_rendering/produ . . . urichtt.html

[11:52:45]

ivor:

I was trying to find a link to something I saw ages ago about how you did hinting for TV output

[11:52:49]

ivor:

but I cant find it anywhere.

[11:52:50]

ivor:

:(

[11:53:22]

justinh:

most TV outputs are blurry enough :)

[11:53:32]

justinh:

no antialiasing needed :P

[11:53:53]

ivor:

yup, but you can use tweaked fonts to take advantage of that and produce much nicer output

[11:54:07]

justinh:

impressive demo

[11:54:09]

ivor:

I'll have to have a hunt and see if I can find it

[11:54:18]

justinh:

wonder if qt has an equivalent

[11:54:27]

ivor:

it doesn't. currently.

[11:54:40]

ivor:

just jogged my memory about it.

[11:54:40]

justinh:

that said, text doesn't look so bad now

[11:54:47]

ivor:

sure.

[11:55:26]

ivor:

I just recall ages ago having a font that was for "TV" output ages ago and it looked pretty poor... until you saw it on a TV and it just looked amazing.

[11:55:28]

justinh:

though I've seen people comment how bad qt's font rendering is once the size goes way up

[11:56:16]

ivor:

wonder if theres any BBC info or papers about their font rendering....

[11:57:06]

justinh:

bbc r&d dept white papers on electronically generated text

[11:57:18]

justinh:

if anybody has them.. BBC r&d will have

[11:58:19]

justinh:

although I reckon they'll have looked into it & spec'd everything YEARS before the internet existed :)

[11:59:49]

gbee:

justinh: (*it)->ExpandArea(m_Area); should be ExpandArea((*it)->GetArea());

[12:00:17]

justinh:

ah

[12:00:28]

gbee:

since you want to set the parent area to that of it's largest children, not every child's area to 0,0

[12:00:38]

justinh:

that's just an 'ah'... not a 'I see why now' ah

[12:01:34]

gbee:

before that line, but within the loop, you want: (*it)->CollapseArea();

[12:01:54]

gbee:

that will collapse each child's area to any children of it's own first

[12:02:02]

justinh:

that'd make it recursive I guess

[12:02:10]

NotForResale-US:

i have a problem with themes not showing up

[12:02:17]

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[12:02:32]

gbee:

yep, might make that optional though – MythUIType::CollapseArea(bool recuse = false)

[12:02:36]

justinh:

thanks gbee. I'm off for lunchables now so I'll pick up the hammer again when I get back

[12:02:51]

gbee:

if (recurse) (*it)->CollapseArea();

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[12:27:19]

janneg:

gbee: the X2 was a Athlon 64 X2 4800, 65nm, 65W TDP, the X4 has 125W TDP

[12:27:55]

gbee:

huh

[12:27:56]

janneg:

I was surprised to see such huge drop of idle power

[12:29:31]

gbee:

I guess you can see why AMD are pushing their ACP idea in place of TDP

[12:36:06]

janneg:

I'm not really sure that the drop is real, I doubt that the X2 would use 20W when idle and probably configured

[12:36:31]

janneg:

I updated the bios before I installed the X4

[12:36:48]

janneg:

the minimal frequency is still 800mhz

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[12:39:16]

gbee:

that's lower than my 4850e, which is 1000mhz

[12:44:16]

ccfreak2k:

Hmm.

[12:44:37]

ccfreak2k:

Wiki pages MythGame and Configuring_MythGame are largely the same.

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[12:47:01]

janneg:

cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies

[12:47:02]

janneg:

3000000 2300000 1800000 800000

[12:47:45]

ccfreak2k:

It probably is related to bus speed.

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[12:51:31]

janneg:

yes, the 4850e has a 2GHz HT bus while the Phenom II X4 has 1,8GHz

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aBs0lut30:

wassup guys, seeing as how nobody over in hdpvr is awake, i figured i would see if anybody over here had heard anything about this. If i have my hdpvr setup to capture AAC audio from my directv box the audio is fine(even though its crappy two channel output) but when I switch it over to AC3, when i start playback I can see my reciever bouncing between pro logic and Dolby digital very quickly, then I get some audio very cho

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[13:44:04]

JEDIDIAH__:

i think iamlindoro does ac3 with his hdpvr

[13:51:09]

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[14:04:29]

justinh:

be a miracle if this works due to my amazing between the lines reading ability

[14:06:35]

justinh:

ffs now asda have sent me a mail saying my attempt to cancel the order has failed due to them packing the items. qty 3 of each when I ordered 1 of each.

[14:07:20]

ccfreak2k:

Got the receipt?

[14:07:31]

justinh:

yup

[14:07:51]

ccfreak2k:

Does it say qty 1?

[14:07:55]

justinh:

the play.com order of the same items has already shipped, placed 3 hours ago

[14:08:11]

justinh:

asda can go whistle in future

[14:08:24]

ccfreak2k:

Get them to return it and fully refund.

[14:08:32]

justinh:

myers of course

[14:08:34]

ccfreak2k:

Rather, take your return.

[14:08:45]

ccfreak2k:

If they don't, well, that's what chargebacks are for. :)

[14:09:39]

justinh:

thanks Dad

[14:15:27]

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[14:17:34]

gbee:

dabs have pissed me off today, ordered a camera from them for my Mum's birthday – over a week ago and now they tell me that they won't be getting the stock

[14:17:52]

gbee:

in that time everywhere else has run out of stock (new model on the way)

[14:18:18]

justinh:

what is it with so few people carrying actual stock these days?

[14:18:39]

gbee:

and of course the new model, whilst it might have new features which weren't really needed, costs £100 more and isn't available until April

[14:18:59]

justinh:

we bought a wii fit at the start of the year. it was reported as 'in stock' yet was delivered 4 weeks late due to 'supplier difficulties'

[14:19:36]

gbee:

that's another thing that pisses me, why run down stock when the replacement isn't going to be available for 2–3 months?

[14:20:13]

gbee:

of course I know why ... to generate demand so people will be prepared to pay that extra £100

[14:20:20]

justinh:

they shouldn't be allowed to report stock they don't have

[14:20:26]

JEDIDIAH__:

...sometimes you just gotta go somwhere where you can literally grab the doo-dad in question. wii fit was a big fad

[14:20:32]

** JEDIDIAH__ agrees with justin. **

[14:20:56]

justinh:

JEDIDIAH__: seemingly less of a 'was' than it's a 'still very much is'

[14:21:01]

sphery:

The DVB S2API ticket is an annoyingly-active discussion forum...

[14:21:10]

sphery:

(the one in Myth's trac, that is)

[14:21:12]

justinh:

they go out of stock before anybody has time to update anything

[14:21:30]

** JEDIDIAH__ doesn't always keep up with fads. just commenting on what I know. **

[14:21:47]

JEDIDIAH__:

....although I see actual fits on shelves these days.

[14:21:55]

justinh:

not in the UK you wouldn't

[14:22:00]

gbee:

yeah, in this case dabs were saying that stock was on it's way, they even sent an email saying that having spoken to the supplier they were revising the dispatch date ... then a few days later, suddenly their supplier doesn't have the stock that they said they did?

[14:22:17]

justinh:

gbee: maybe it's a chain ;)

[14:22:27]

** JEDIDIAH__ wonders if he should start a grey market wii fit exporting operation... **

[14:23:08]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: I got a Wii fit by walking into a GameStop on Thursday afternoon (the day they get deliveries) and walking out with it. Knowing the schedule (and being able to go to the store when everyone else is at work) makes it not to difficult to find. Walmart gets them on Tues or Wed... Best Buy on...

[14:23:45]

justinh:

sphery: stores here go out of stock for weeks/months at a time

[14:24:03]

justinh:

stock is like the proverbial rocking horse droppings

[14:24:26]

sphery:

But, if you have to get it online (or if they don't have such regularly-scheduled deliveries outside the US), that may not be an option... Or, as justinh said, since Nintendo doesn't care about the UK and they don't actually deliver them there... :)

[14:25:08]

justinh:

treat em mean ;)

[14:26:13]

sphery:

Hmmm... "rsync deleted source and destination while movingrecordings to a new drive" on -users list... Wouldn't that properly be, "/I/ deleted source and destination while movingrecordings to a new drive with rsync"?

[14:27:00]

justinh:

even if you get the args wrong only one end should end up borked

[14:27:37]

justinh:

but then maybe said user did two rsyncs, both broken in their own way ;)

[14:27:57]

justinh:

cp -rv is safer. less to go wrong

[14:28:07]

sphery:

yeah... Looks like he started it, let it run, then restarted it, possibly deleting the already-copied ones from the source dir

[14:28:50]

sphery:

so, with the wrong --delete args, he may have told it to sync the dirs, meaning delete the files he just copied the original time

[14:29:16]

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[14:29:19]

justinh:

wonder whatever happened to the -g option of cp. had it on gentoo & it was nice

[14:29:36]

justinh:

progress indicator :)

[14:29:40]

sphery:

I'll admit that cp is easier (though I'd suggest cp -a or cp -dpR ), I think rsync is /much/ better--assuming you're up for figuring out the right args to use

[14:29:53]

justinh:

or use grsync :)

[14:30:15]

sphery:

the problem was that he didn't realize that rsync won't re-copy the stuff he already copied.

[14:30:40]

justinh:

unless something had changed

[14:30:44]

janneg:

justinh: gentoo has removed the patch for -g

[14:30:52]

justinh:

awww

[14:31:00]

sphery:

yeah, and upstream has no interest in it as there are many other apps that show progress

[14:31:10]

sshirley:

Hi everyone. I know is probably not the best place to ask a Windows question, but it concerns the Hauppauge HD-PVR and I wasn't sure where else to turn. I googled the crap outta this and can't find it. How does one on Windows control (i.e. change channels) on a Motorola STB via serial?

[14:31:13]

sphery:

(like rsync, for example :)

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[14:32:17]

justinh:

sshirley: since windows doesn't allow low-level control of any ports.. ummmm. Hmmmm. A .net program :P

[14:32:40]

sphery:

doesn't lirc work on windows?

[14:32:55]

justinh:

winlirc? allegedly

[14:33:10]

sphery:

that's it

[14:33:12]

justinh:

it's awful though. seen that first hand

[14:33:17]

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[14:33:21]

sphery:

heh, I never tried it

[14:33:35]

justinh:

makes what I just said about low level port control absolute rubbish though

[14:34:04]

justinh:

come to think, I once wrote a simple serial port squirter in TCL

[14:34:34]

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[14:34:57]

sphery:

I've been telling myself I'm going to write an app (on GNU/Linux, though) that allows me to send commands to my TV through its serial interface, but I never get around to it.

[14:35:19]

justinh:

cat $foo > /dev/ttyS$X

[14:35:23]

justinh:

?

[14:35:24]

sphery:

I.e. rather than use LIRC, talk to the tv directly (and bi-directionally) with serial

[14:35:39]

sshirley:

I thought for sure there were a lot of people doing this. I simply can't find the info. I would rather have a serial cable doing this than infrared. Plus how to connect the channel changing software to the recording software (very odd setup at the moment for the HD-PVR).

[14:35:42]

justinh:

TCL, then it could be cross-platform :P

[14:35:50]

sphery:

yeah, it's making it more of a HT control program that's been putting me off

[14:35:56]

sphery:

could always use minicom, too

[14:36:02]

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[14:36:05]

justinh:

www.thegreenbutton.com might know, sshirley

[14:36:20]

sshirley:

True

[14:36:25]

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[14:36:29]

** Dibblah has been considering doing an HT integration platform that's not PC based... **

[14:36:31]

justinh:

and the fellow windows-using MCE fanboiz

[14:36:38]

sphery:

sshirley: here's a wild and crazy idea... You could use MythTV with LIRC on GNU/Linux

[14:36:50]

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[14:37:05]

Dibblah:

Currently, I have seperate amp / HDMI switch / projector controls, all tied together with bash scripting.

[14:37:11]

sphery:

Dibblah: what kind of platform would this be?

[14:37:15]

Dibblah:

I'd prefer something more robust.

[14:37:20]

Dibblah:

AVR possibly.

[14:37:24]

justinh:

a router with USB serial ports?

[14:37:26]

Dibblah:

If not openwrt.

[14:37:30]

justinh:

;)

[14:37:31]

sphery:

sweet... I've been wanting to do some avr hacking

[14:37:33]

sshirley:

I really hope that MythTV finishes the work on bringing the HD-PVR code into the main trunk (instead of svn trunk). I'd LOVE to go back to MythTV! But now I have the HD-PVR and it makes it impossible to do so. Plus Myth crashed often on me.

[14:37:41]

Dibblah:

And USB serial ports are useful for IR... How?

[14:37:43]

sphery:

openwrt would work...

[14:37:55]

Dibblah:

sshirley: "main trunk"?

[14:37:57]

justinh:

sshirley: when 0.22 is released, voila!

[14:38:02]

Dibblah:

You mean 0.21-fixes?

[14:38:15]

justinh:

hdpvr support won't be backported

[14:38:16]

sshirley:

Main trunk is the wrong word. I still need some more coffee.

[14:38:29]

sshirley:

0.22 is going to take a while I hear.

[14:38:32]

justinh:

no new features will be backported. unless your name is Avenard

[14:38:37]

sphery:

heh

[14:38:38]

laga:

rotfl

[14:39:17]

justinh:

that's why 0.21-fixes isn't called 0.21-backports-of-stuff-from-trunk I guess

[14:39:23]

sshirley:

But once MythTV has it, I'm back.

[14:39:39]

sphery:

it's -fixes, it's stable, it's got experimental/in-development features from trunk, but it's -fixes, so it's stable... right?

[14:40:36]

justinh:

damnit why won't this unit unlock.. and furthermore, whose bright idea was it to make a unit completely impotent until it's unlocked? the thinking for 'unlockables' is to sell everything in a product line the same & offer extras as after-market chargeables.

[14:41:04]

sshirley:

Anyway...I'll look again on thegreenbutton. Thanks, guys.

[14:41:19]

sphery:

you /could/ run trunk (if you're a patient person who doesn't mind spending a great deal of time reading and keeping up with the -dev and -commits lists and figuring out all the issues that you encounter), but if you prefer just having a DVR, then a Windows-based app (or just holding off on using the HD-PVR and sticking with a PVR-x50 for a while longer) is probably an easier choice

[14:42:14]

sphery:

Personally, I'd choose standard-def on MythTV over high-def on any other platform (and I'm an HDTV snob, anymore)

[14:42:38]

sshirley:

sphery: As much of a tinkerer as I am (I could handle and enjoy working with the dev stuff), my girlfriend is not. I CAN handle dev stuff, but I CANNOT handle bitching and griping about stuff not working on a daily basis. :-)

[14:43:01]

justinh:

I doubt it's as unreliable as that

[14:43:16]

justinh:

if you check out at the right time, and update stuff at the right time...

[14:43:31]

sshirley:

I don't know if it was my handware config, but MythTV crashed often on me.

[14:43:32]

sphery:

and pay close attention to -dev and -commits

[14:43:43]

sphery:

and, yeah, that shouldn't happen.

[14:44:32]

sphery:

only time I've ever had problems with Myth crashing, it was actually the whole box crashing due to a kernel panic due to bad hardware (overheated chipset)

[14:45:15]

sphery:

Actually, there was one other time when I was running trunk on my production system and there was a bug that took many months to fix.

[14:45:20]

gbee:

there are some crashes which just aren't anything we can fix, bad video drivers, bad external libraries, bad memory can all causes crashes which have nothing to do with MythTV but give that appearance

[14:45:26]

sshirley:

For me, it wasn't the whole box rather than just Myth. It was odd. This wasn't too long ago that I had Myth on there. Maybe 1 year ago?

[14:45:30]

sphery:

But, I've since learned the pleasures of running -fixes on production.

[14:46:23]

sshirley:

Maybe it had something to do with using the proprietary ATI driver. I have no idea.

[14:47:21]

sshirley:

Plus the built-in video player couldn't handle a bunch of my video files.

[14:48:43]

justinh:

how that has improved :)

[14:49:31]

sphery:

I wanted to install the proprietary ATI driver on my laptop, but the installer doesn't work properly (for me, that is--it works as designed). I makes assumptions about the configuration of the system/filesystem that are invalid (i.e. I have a 64-bit machine that's /not/ a multilib system, so /usr/lib is a directory of 64-bit libs and there's no /usr/lib64. Next plan is to install to a "fake" location and then move the files ...

[14:49:37]

sphery:

... to the right places.

[14:50:14]

sshirley:

On MCE? I had to add in a bunch of codecs to my system, but Windows media player handles pretty much everything now. Plus it plays H264 at a good speed which was something that my Myth system couldn't. Maybe THAT was a function of the ATI driver for Linux.

[14:50:41]

sphery:

yeah, the windows players use GPU acceleration

[14:50:41]

gbee:

sphery: just mkdir /usr/lib64 then add it to ld.so.conf

[14:50:47]

ccfreak2k:

sshirley, doom9 had a comparison of AVC codec decoders, and libav seemed to do well.

[14:51:09]

sphery:

gbee: but then it puts 32-bit libs in /usr/lib (because I can't tell it to install only the 64-bit stuff)

[14:52:05]

sshirley:

That was a good reason to switch to MCE. But if I can get that on that working on Myth, then I'm back. I'll need to install Myth onto my laptop and play around with it before putting it again onto my main media center.

[14:52:08]

gbee:

ah, well I can't really remember seeing a 64-bit only option (excluding 32-bit compat libs) in the installer, so you may be right

[14:52:58]

sshirley:

ccfreak2k: So I could install libav and instruct Myth to use that only?

[14:52:59]

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[14:53:13]

sphery:

yeah... I'll either figure it out, or the radeonhd OSS driver will get 3D support (which will allow them to do Xv--as the scaling required by Xv requires 3D support in the HD 3200) and I'll be happy

[14:53:18]

ccfreak2k:

Or, you could use mplayer because mplayer uses libav. :)

[14:53:39]

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[14:53:57]

sphery:

Just means I can't watch video on my laptop fullscreen--without lowering resolution and using the LCD's scaler (shudder)

[14:54:00]

sshirley:

mplayer wouldn't be bad either

[14:54:44]

sphery:

ccfreak2k: myth uses libav*

[14:54:58]

sshirley:

Ok.....I gotta try to get some work done. :-) :'(

[14:55:03]

sphery:

just uses an "internal" version of it, so you get the version from the last sync

[14:55:17]

sphery:

sshirley: good luck

[14:55:17]

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[14:55:25]

ccfreak2k:

Speaking of which, are there any known issues with MythTV 0.21 and ffmpeg?

[14:55:53]

justinh:

hmmm?

[14:55:57]

sphery:

known issues?

[14:56:18]

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[14:56:28]

ccfreak2k:

I recall having failed compiles possibly because of it.

[14:56:28]

ivor:

known unknowns?

[14:56:57]

justinh:

mythtv has its own ffmpeg

[14:57:02]

sphery:

ccfreak2k: failed myth compiles because of ffmpeg? Since Myth uses its own copy of the ffmpeg libs, it shouldn't be affected

[14:57:10]

aBs0lut30:

ivor, no unknown knowns...

[14:57:19]

justinh:

aBs0lut30: that we know of

[14:57:55]

sphery:

though there may have be a while where the include/lib dir order was messed up in the Makefiles and it tried to use system versions

[14:58:00]

sphery:

I think that's fixed, though

[14:58:00]

ccfreak2k:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showt . . . #post3405921

[14:59:13]

ccfreak2k:

That sounds like what I had.

[15:00:38]

aBs0lut30:

ok, I got a question, using myth and a hdpvr, is myth doing any thing to the mpeg stream? and post processing or anything? or is it just streaming the data directly to disk and then reading it back

[15:00:55]

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[15:01:01]

aBs0lut30:

and = any

[15:01:03]

justinh:

unless you tell it to, nothing is done to the recorded sream

[15:01:10]

justinh:

*stream

[15:01:27]

aBs0lut30:

ok, this is gonna sound really stupid, but where would I tell it to??

[15:01:44]

sphery:

user jobs?

[15:01:54]

aBs0lut30:

ahh

[15:02:12]

aBs0lut30:

well, that shoots down that theroy...

[15:02:28]

sphery:

don't know if filters can be applied to HD-PVR recordings (it would only be possible if the driver/firmware/hardware supports the filtering for us)

[15:02:55]

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[15:02:58]

sphery:

what's the issue you're having? Might be easier to find an answer if you tell us.

[15:03:08]

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[15:03:23]

aBs0lut30:

well, I am trying to figure out whats going on with my sound from the recordings and was just wondering if I had done something stupid and told it to do something to the data... having trouble with the AC3 audio

[15:03:43]

justinh:

need a hdpvr firmware update?

[15:03:50]

sphery:

OK, I'll defer to someone with HDPVR experience

[15:03:50]

aBs0lut30:

AAC plays back flawlessly, but AC3 cuts in and out then for about 5 seconds is great, then goes away...

[15:04:00]

justinh:

what do folks in #hdpvr say?

[15:04:26]

aBs0lut30:

justinh: well, am running the recomended version, forget the number... havent been able to wake anybody up over there ;)

[15:06:53]

JEDIDIAH__:

are you running the latest firmware?

[15:06:56]

stoth:

what kind of stb is attached to the hdpvr?

[15:07:28]

aBs0lut30:

no, its not the latest, its the version refed on the wiki article, STB is a DirecTV HD box

[15:07:44]

stoth:

run the latest firmware.

[15:08:30]

aBs0lut30:

well, when i did that the driver started complaining about how the firmware may be incompatible with the driver...

[15:08:41]

JEDIDIAH__:

the first few firmware releases for the hdpvr didn't support ac3

[15:09:30]

aBs0lut30:

well, the firmware I am runnin has support, v4l lets me set the ctrl for it and the audio stream in the file is ac3, its just either corupted or something...

[15:09:42]

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[15:10:08]

aBs0lut30:

I can toss the new firmware back on there and try it...

[15:10:58]

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[15:11:56]

aBs0lut30:

is there any way I can telll what version of the firmware I am running without booting into windows?

[15:12:18]

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[15:12:27]

aBs0lut30:

lsusb

[15:12:29]

aBs0lut30:

opps

[15:14:33]

aBs0lut30:

also, just as a side note, is there anything I have to do to make my bitrate settings stick? I set the video_bitrate with v4l2-ctl and later I go back and look and its back to the defaults...

[15:15:27]

JEDIDIAH__:

configure mythtv

[15:15:41]

aBs0lut30:

??

[15:15:57]

JEDIDIAH__:

just like any other card, mythtv is going to be controlling the card when it's recording something.

[15:16:10]

gbee:

aBs0lut30: you should be setting the bitrate through mythtv, not directly on the command line

[15:18:47]

justinh:

I hope I don't have to make any more changes to things that affect lots of dependent stuff in future

[15:18:48]

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[15:20:41]

aBs0lut30:

ok, I give up, where do i go to set the bitrate stuff inside myth?

[15:20:49]

justinh:

recording profiles

[15:26:46]

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[15:28:59]

justinh:

hmm this compile won't finish before hometime. I better pack up before somebody brings some work in

[15:29:34]

ivor:

justinh: what your compile's going to take 2.5 hours??? :)

[15:29:48]

justinh:

I'm leaving in 2 mins

[15:30:08]

justinh:

been here since 7am. only fair

[15:30:09]

ivor:

meh

[15:33:09]

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[15:33:17]

poodyp:

use screen and pick it up when you get home?

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[15:48:38]

Dibblah:

BTW, if anyone is on the lookout for a quite nice wireless keyboard / mouseish combo, http://www.telfordmedia.co.uk/OnlineStore/Key . . . CProductName

[15:48:55]

Dibblah:

It's a joymouse, but not bad at all.

[15:50:10]

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[15:50:55]

ccfreak2k:

Here we go.

[15:50:55]

ccfreak2k:

http://pastebin.ca/1342933

[15:51:09]

ccfreak2k:

The errors scrolled right off the window, and I have no mousewheel.

[15:54:54]

iamlindoro__:

Oy, the user manual wiki pages need to be locked to a given group

[15:58:07]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: yeah, xris is looking at doing some kind of non-editable official HOWTO with editable/by-default-hidden annotations or with editable comments at the bottom (like MySQL docs)

[15:58:30]

sphery:

if anyone is a mediawiki guru and knows how to do that, I think he would /love/ the help.

[15:58:36]

iamlindoro__:

I went to go do some work on the wiki and looked at the recent changes and saw some downright WRONG stuff put in to the user manual for DB configuration

[15:58:44]

sphery:

where?

[15:59:03]

sphery:

There's still a lot of outdated stuff in there, too.

[15:59:24]

sphery:

The wiki user manual is not updated the same as the official HOWTO.

[15:59:55]

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[16:00:09]

iamlindoro__:

Hang on

[16:00:25]

iamlindoro__:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki?title=User_Manual% . . . ;oldid=36934

[16:01:14]

iamlindoro__:

In addition to having NOTHING to do with initial DB configuration, the directory names were all jacked up in semi-literate english

[16:01:27]

iamlindoro__:

Plus the reference to deprecated files

[16:02:02]

sphery:

good edit

[16:02:28]

sphery:

dir names were distro specific locations of mysql.txt files

[16:02:36]

iamlindoro__:

Not as complete as it could/should be, but at least it's correct mow

[16:02:37]

iamlindoro__:

er now

[16:02:56]

sphery:

actually, I'd almost argue it /is/ as complete as it should be

[16:03:15]

iamlindoro__:

plus overwrite != override

[16:05:27]

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[16:18:49]

ccfreak2k:

Is MythGame considered an official plug-in?

[16:18:54]

GreyFoxx:

yes

[16:18:59]

GreyFoxx:

it's in theofficial source

[16:20:49]

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[16:21:06]

gbee:

which reminds me, how is the re-write going? :)

[16:21:25]

GreyFoxx:

paused while I play with the remote dvd stuff :)

[16:21:28]

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[16:21:55]

gbee:

yeah of course, forgot for a moment that you were working on that too

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[16:24:58]

NotForResale-US:

i have a problem with themes not showing up

[16:25:19]

NotForResale-US:

they are in the folder but it does not show up

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[16:31:14]

JEDIDIAH__:

what do you think should be "left out" sphery?

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[16:41:59]

rcsd_sysop:

I've been working on setting up Nuvexport, on my mythbox for a week or so now, I've come to a place where it seems many of the files in nuvexport/export/ffmpeg/ need to be patched/edited to work w/ current[svn] versions of ffmpeg, before i continue to edit all of these files by trial and error, has this already been done else where, or is there a newer version of nuvexport out there that i can install? i pulled mythtv from mythbuntu, it seems to

[16:42:32]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: left out?

[16:42:48]

sphery:

you mean of the page that iamlindoro__ mentioned?

[16:43:21]

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[16:43:54]

sphery:

If so, I think what he has in there is good because it doesn't mention mysql.txt or config.xml (which users shouldn't worry about because distros will take care of it or when they start mythtv-setup, it will prompt for the info)

[16:45:09]

sphery:

and, though his doesn't have all the descriptions of MySQL access controls or how to find the MySQL root user password or what permissions are required to run mc.sql or ..., all that info can be found in other locations

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[16:53:40]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

Is there any way to determin which recorder a recording was made on? I know the 'upcoming recorings' screen shows what recorder has been chosen to record the program on, but is it logged in the DB as to which recorder was actually used? (I dan't seem to find it while browsing the tables, etc, other than mythlog, which rolls off to quickly.)

[16:54:08]

** J-e-f-f-A|work seems to have some fat fingers today... DOH! **

[16:59:47]

NotForResale-US:

J-e-f-f-A|work: can you assist with adding themes

[17:00:08]

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[17:00:21]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

NotForResale-US: Maybe... what's the issue?

[17:00:35]

NotForResale-US:

i added it to the dir

[17:00:45]

NotForResale-US:

but it doesn't show in mythfrontend

[17:01:31]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

NotForResale-US: What do you mean "i added it to the dir"? I usually download them (via SVN or cvs, etc), then change into that directory and do a "make" and "sudo make install"... that usually installs them properly.

[17:02:53]

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[17:04:13]

NotForResale-US:

its in a tar.gz

[17:04:24]

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[17:04:28]

NotForResale-US:

so i put them in /usr/share/mythtv/themes

[17:04:38]

iamlindoro__:

You need to decompress it, you can't just drop the tar in there

[17:04:42]

NotForResale-US:

i did

[17:05:09]

iamlindoro__:

using what command?

[17:05:23]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

NotForResale-US: You need to extract it somewhere, I'd put it in /usr/src/mythtv/themes/file_name — then I'd 'cd' into there and do the 'make' then 'make install' – or read any install instructions in the directory...

[17:05:30]

NotForResale-US:

hmmm

[17:05:48]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A: raw themes don't use make

[17:05:51]

dougl:

doesn't mplayer play mp3 in mythtv – I cannot get sound output on spdif when playing mp3s, any suggestions?

[17:05:54]

NotForResale-US:

yea its a raw theme

[17:06:05]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A: They only need to be decompressed properly

[17:06:10]

iamlindoro__:

(and have correct permissions)

[17:06:27]

dougl:

but when I watch tv or videos there is sound there

[17:07:17]

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[17:08:32]

NotForResale-US:

hmm

[17:09:26]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

iamlindoro__: Ah... ok. ;-) I guess I've only played with the ones downloaded from svn/cvs so far... ;-)

[17:09:42]

gbee:

and be extracted to the right location /usr/{local/}share/mythtv/themes/<themename>/

[17:09:59]

iamlindoro__:

Yeah... was just going to say, if you installed from packages, /usr/share is probably wrong

[17:10:12]

NotForResale-US:

i have no

[17:10:14]

iamlindoro__:

/usr/local/share is more likely

[17:10:25]

gbee:

NotForResale-US: or just put it in ~/.mythtv/themes/

[17:10:29]

NotForResale-US:

ok holdon

[17:10:46]

NotForResale-US:

inuxmce@dcerouter:/usr/local/share$ cd ~/.mythtv/themes

[17:10:46]

NotForResale-US:

-bash: cd: /home/linuxmce/.mythtv/themes: No such file or directory

[17:10:49]

gbee:

NotForResale-US: or just put it in ~/.mythtv/themes/<themename>/

[17:11:21]

gbee:

mkdir ~/.mythtv/themes

[17:12:21]

iamlindoro__:

oof

[17:12:29]

iamlindoro__:

if you are running linuxmce, it's likely .20.2

[17:12:38]

iamlindoro__:

in which case none of the modern themes are likely to work at all

[17:12:46]

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[17:15:20]

gbee:

which theme?

[17:16:55]

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[17:18:39]

NotForResale-US:

metallurgy

[17:19:51]

justinh:

gbee: maybe the text about only working with 0.21 wasn't big enough ;)

[17:20:03]

NotForResale-US:

it says compatible

[17:20:21]

iamlindoro__:

"Widescreen theme & OSD for Mythtv 0.21"

[17:20:34]

iamlindoro__:

It's cool, it's only the second line of the theme page

[17:20:40]

iamlindoro__:

I usually get bored on the first line too

[17:20:40]

justinh:

AFAIK linuxmce is only up to 0.20.x

[17:20:47]

** J-e-f-f-A|work wonders if linuxmce even uses MythTV themes.... **

[17:20:55]

justinh:

J-e-f-f-A|work: yesh

[17:20:58]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A|work: They don't even use mythfrontend, sooooooooo

[17:21:05]

justinh:

yeah they do

[17:21:07]

iamlindoro__:

(although it's there)

[17:21:12]

justinh:

so I read somewhere

[17:21:22]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

I thought they only used the backend?

[17:21:23]

iamlindoro__:

justinh: Their interface eschews it, though it's present

[17:21:56]

justinh:

I thought they used mythfrontend for the stuff they don't/can't do themselves – i.e. scheduling etc

[17:22:09]

NotForResale-US:

they use mythtv

[17:22:13]

NotForResale-US:

for watching livetv

[17:22:21]

NotForResale-US:

they use the entire mythtv program

[17:22:32]

justinh:

mythtv != mythfrontend

[17:22:37]

iamlindoro__:

Not any modern version of it, anyway

[17:22:39]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

NotForResale-US: no they don't... ^^^ exactly.

[17:22:42]

iamlindoro__:

so you can give up on that theme now

[17:22:51]

NotForResale-US:

what bout absctract

[17:23:01]

iamlindoro__:

what about randomwordsandletters?

[17:23:04]

justinh:

abstract... thought that was long dead

[17:23:23]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A|work: only the logs record which capture card/input was used to record a show. If you have database logging enabled, you may have some (really hard to follow) info in there, still.

[17:23:24]

iamlindoro__:

back to the wiki with me

[17:23:40]

justinh:

cant say I blame anyone for wanting to change the look of linuxmce though. I saw it in person once

[17:23:54]

NotForResale-US:

justinh: how long ago did you see it

[17:24:02]

justinh:

maybe 2.5 years ago

[17:24:14]

justinh:

it hasn't changed since AFAIK

[17:24:21]

NotForResale-US:

its change dramastically

[17:24:23]

NotForResale-US:

even the look

[17:24:30]

NotForResale-US:

heres a more uptodate screenie

[17:24:56]

NotForResale-US:

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Selecting_the_Right_UI

[17:24:59]

justinh:

nope. it still looks awful

[17:25:10]

iamlindoro__:

Yeah, that's ass

[17:25:21]

justinh:

pretty much the same as when I tried it

[17:25:24]

iamlindoro__:

(and still looks the same to me

[17:25:24]

iamlindoro__:

)

[17:25:25]

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[17:25:28]

iamlindoro__:

Argh, beat me to it

[17:25:40]

justinh:

wonder how their ui rewrite project is going

[17:25:48]

NotForResale-US:

its going good

[17:25:48]

sphery:

have they done anything to LMCE since?

[17:26:04]

NotForResale-US:

they have follow me

[17:26:06]

NotForResale-US:

etc

[17:26:12]

justinh:

haven't heard about it since KDE announced they'd chosen it to be their base media thingy

[17:26:19]

** sphery finishes scrolling down and sees that you've already gone there **

[17:26:27]

NotForResale-US:

follow me is if your in living room and wanna go to the bedroom

[17:26:31]

NotForResale-US:

you bring the remote

[17:26:36]

NotForResale-US:

goto the bedroom.. and you press follow me

[17:26:40]

NotForResale-US:

it turns off the living room hardware

[17:26:52]

iamlindoro__:

NotForResale-US: We don't care, we're not here to get a LinuxMCE commercial

[17:26:53]

NotForResale-US:

and turns on the bedroom components and puts the media you had on in the living room on in the bedroom

[17:26:53]

justinh:

kinda like mythtv where you play a recording in one room & you can continue playing it from any other frontend

[17:27:00]

justinh:

big wow

[17:27:14]

NotForResale-US:

sphery: asked a question

[17:27:18]

NotForResale-US:

thus i answered

[17:27:24]

justinh:

nice I guess if you don't have anything better to do in the bedroom than watch TV ;)

[17:28:02]

iamlindoro__:

And on a hacked up old version of myth to boot

[17:28:13]

sphery:

Yeah, the follow me stuff wouldn't be hard to put in Myth proper--I think Cap'n M was considering it once.

[17:28:23]

justinh:

seriously though, I wish linuxmce all the very best of luck in their enterprise. for those people with big enough houses & the money to spend on expensive controllable gear & fancy remotes

[17:28:32]

** GreyFoxx wonders how that worksif you have multiple frontends in use in the house **

[17:28:59]

sphery:

I think the original LMCE implementation of follow me used a bluetooth device so it knew who you were.

[17:29:10]

GreyFoxx:

ahhh ok so you have "your" own remote

[17:29:12]

justinh:

the ultimate extension of that might actually save you the effort of walking to the other rooms yourself :)

[17:29:19]

sphery:

They may have decided that the implants were too intrusive, so they just put a button on the remote.

[17:29:22]

JEDIDIAH__:

spending more time in the bedroom can have unintended side effects.

[17:29:53]

justinh:

mnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggg... can't .... muster.... strength.... to.... turn ... TV .... off... and... light switch ....

[17:30:11]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you can always use bluetooth headsets

[17:30:23]

wagnerrp:

they can track you through which unit youre bound to

[17:30:29]

wagnerrp:

and you can issue voice commands

[17:30:34]

justinh:

wagnerrp: true. they're as uninvasive as 3d goggles

[17:30:37]

wagnerrp:

all the while looking like a dousche

[17:30:44]

sphery:

Yeah, I'd like to see the LMCE people throwing away the garbage they inherited from an unimportant minor planet and actually starting to write stuff that /fits into/ MythTV.

[17:31:17]

justinh:

anyway.. all good joshing... find a theme compatible with mythtv 0.20.x and you can likely use it in linuxmce

[17:31:55]

justinh:

and if you manage to find a working copy of 'Abstract' link to it on the mythtv wiki please

[17:32:03]

NotForResale-US:

it is linked to the wiki

[17:32:15]

sphery:

but it likely doesn't work with 0.21, does it?

[17:32:19]

NotForResale-US:

yes it does

[17:32:58]

iamlindoro__:

Considering their dev was just in this week asking for information to write in .21 support, that seems doubtful

[17:33:14]

justinh:

last updated in 2005

[17:33:16]

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[17:33:25]

iamlindoro__:

So maybe it's time to stop evangelizing a product we don't give a fig about in our channel, yes?

[17:33:29]

justinh:

well, somebody has to continue 4:3 theme development I suppose

[17:33:31]

sphery:

"their dev" = LMCE?

[17:33:39]

gbee:

cityLights3: DON'T change the database encoding

[17:33:48]

cityLights3:

why?

[17:34:01]

sphery:

heh

[17:34:07]

cityLights3:

I dropped the original db and changed it to utf8

[17:34:10]

gbee:

because mythtv stores UTF8 characters in latin1 fields

[17:34:12]

iamlindoro__:

sphery: Yes, one of their devs was in #mythtv this week asking how storage groups work

[17:34:22]

gbee:

you will break mythtv if you change the database encoding from latin1

[17:34:23]

cityLights3:

gbee: thnaks

[17:34:29]

cityLights3:

ok, how to fix this then

[17:34:32]

iamlindoro__:

sphery: And specifically said was for purposes of getting LMCE working with .21

[17:34:32]

sphery:

cityLights3: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Fixing_Corrupt_Database_Encoding is why

[17:34:35]

justinh:

ugh. I dunno if I'll ever buy 2nd hand CDs ever again

[17:34:49]

cityLights3:

should I just kill the db and import it again from mc.sql?

[17:34:54]

gbee:

it's done deliberately to save space with older versions of mysql

[17:34:56]

justinh:

my discs from Oxfam arrived today. just went to rip one & found a hair on the disc.

[17:34:59]

sphery:

cityLights3: that's what people who did mess with encoding (or whose systems were improperly configured and, therefore, broke encoding) will have to do before 0.22

[17:35:15]

cityLights3:

oh

[17:35:18]

NotForResale-US:

my R&D LMCE Box os 0.21

[17:35:19]

NotForResale-US:

is

[17:35:33]

sphery:

cityLights3: if you're on Gentoo, that's probably the problem--broken DB server configuration

[17:35:43]

sphery:

reading scrollback in the wrong channel to catch up

[17:35:44]

cityLights3:

wait , I messed 0.20 I had then change to utf8 then moved to 0.22

[17:35:46]

gbee:

mythtv uses UTF8, if you are seeing problems then open a bug ticket, but changing the database encoding will just make things worse and prevent upgrades to 0.22

[17:36:00]

justinh:

so, if abstract was last updated in 2005, that would make it compatible with er.. mythtv 0.17 ish

[17:36:09]

cityLights3:

I am on gentoo – so in chort how to start over clean?

[17:36:26]

NotForResale-US:

justinh: it works on 0.20

[17:36:33]

justinh:

even the plugins?

[17:36:43]

justinh:

there must be problems with mythmusic & mythvideo though

[17:36:49]

justinh:

esp. the metadata editing stuff

[17:37:41]

sphery:

cityLights3: you need to follow the instructions on the page I linked: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Fixing_Corrupt_Database_Encoding

[17:37:46]

cityLights3:

gbee: how to start all over when I use gentoo? drop the mysql db, rm .mythtv and import mc.sql?

[17:37:49]

justinh:

then again maybe i'm confuzzled. I did a _lot_ of catching up between 0.20 & 0.21

[17:37:57]

sphery:

because your config was broken, you have to fix the data manually

[17:37:59]

cityLights3:

ok

[17:38:33]

sphery:

and, if you're running 0.21-fixes, you /can not/ change the database server configuration back (i.e. leave the sections of my.cnf that it has you comment commented)

[17:38:33]

iamlindoro__:

justinh: I call BS: http://svn.linuxmce.org/trac.cgi/browser/trunk/src

[17:38:40]

iamlindoro__:

justinh: Look at the dates on the Myth stuff

[17:38:41]

cityLights3:

sphery: can't I just start over, I dont mind lossing the info in my db , it is a nmew install anyway

[17:39:12]

iamlindoro__:

justinh: and I know for a *fact* that they brought their .20.2 support out just as .21 came out, so I'm about done getting a line of bull

[17:39:16]

wagnerrp:

if you lose the database, you lose the recordings too

[17:39:48]

sphery:

cityLights3: you can start the whole DB over (DROP DATABASE IF EXISTS mythconverg;) but you also have to fix your DB server config ( http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Fixing_Corrupt_Dat . . . onfiguration ), then run mc.sql, then start over

[17:39:51]

iamlindoro__:

justinh: Plus one of their devs *was* in #mythtv a few days ago asking for help getting their support for .21 working, so yeah. BS.

[17:40:00]

cityLights3:

wagnerrp: I got no poblem losing my recording

[17:40:02]

cityLights3:

wagnerrp: I got no poblem losing my recordings

[17:40:06]

sphery:

cityLights3: or use some distro that's not Gentoo ;)

[17:40:26]

justinh:

iamlindoro__: well, good luck to em :)

[17:40:29]

sphery:

cityLights3: but, really, fixing your existing DB (and saving your recordings) is easy

[17:40:35]

gbee:

iamlindoro__: heh, guess danielk isn't that active on it anymore then?

[17:40:43]

sphery:

cityLights3: read that page and you'll find that reading it takes longer than doing it

[17:40:50]

iamlindoro__:

gbee: Seems not (at least, not since a year or so ago)

[17:40:50]

cityLights3:

again: I am installing on a new pc. I am running gentoo , what is shortest way to be able to use utf8?

[17:41:07]

cityLights3:

sphery: ok off to read it

[17:41:10]

cityLights3:

thanks a lot

[17:41:21]

justinh:

if I had the kind of money that I'd need to own a house big enough to justify using home automation in such a big way I'm sure I could afford to buy a solution off the shelf

[17:41:40]

sphery:

cityLights3: Myth /always/ uses utf8... Myth lies to the DB and tells it that it's using latin1 — http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Fixing_Corrupt_Dat . . . ter_encoding

[17:41:58]

sphery:

The problem is that your DB server configuration is broken, so it's converting data to latin1

[17:42:04]

gbee:

cityLights3: there is no work involved, mythtv will just use utf8 by default (it can't even be changed from utf8 to something else)

[17:42:23]

cityLights3:

o ok folks

[17:42:39]

gbee:

actually internally it uses utf16 (Unicode), but stores to the database in UTF8

[17:42:40]

cityLights3:

are you using mythtv long?

[17:43:04]

sphery:

gbee is one of the main devs

[17:43:14]

cityLights3:

I started learning to use linux five years ago , to have myth on my pc

[17:43:19]

sphery:

(who's in the running for most commits on MythTV)

[17:43:32]

cityLights3:

yet it only recenltly looks to come together – right?

[17:43:44]

sphery:

It's definitely been improving for the last 5 years.

[17:44:00]

sphery:

Although, it was working great for me 5 years ago when I started.

[17:44:21]

cityLights3:

I mean , using an amd 1.6 and a bt848 card didnt do what you get today with a doul core and an mpeg2 tv card

[17:44:44]

gbee:

sphery: hardly, both Daniel and Isaac have twice the number of commits that I do and I'm well behind even xris

[17:44:45]

sphery:

yeah, current hardware is great for it--especially for HDTV

[17:45:00]

cityLights3:

my question is: is it only the documantation that got better? is it the hardware? or is it simply me?

[17:45:05]

sphery:

gbee: maybe all your, "forgot ... in last commmit" ones will help. ;)

[17:45:17]

justinh:

cityLights3: it all has

[17:45:28]

sphery:

cityLights3: yeah, all of it--including MythTV.

[17:45:29]

justinh:

and it's always getting better

[17:45:43]

gbee:

who needs quality when you've got quantity ;)

[17:46:01]

** justinh adds another 2000 lines to his hacks **

[17:46:03]

sphery:

and we hope it always will get better (thanks to some really talented devs who volunteer copious amounts of their free time to the project)

[17:46:15]

cityLights3:

as hardware goes: what is the benifit of using a mpeg2 encoder tv card if the cpu will decode it to run commercial detect and mp4 recompress?

[17:46:17]

justinh:

sphery: and then there's me. lol

[17:46:33]

justinh:

cityLights3: what's the point of re-encoding again?

[17:46:44]

sphery:

gbee: if you want quality, you go with the 478-line Perl version of MythTV instead of the 175K line C++ version :)

[17:46:52]

gbee:

it's not a race, or at least I don't see it that way, all I care about is the end product and not who did what

[17:47:07]

justinh:

sphery: more like 1.5Million according to ohloh

[17:47:32]

sphery:

justinh: yeah, I was using numbers from Perl-lover's thread

[17:47:46]

rcsd_sysop:

shpery: i might just be gullible .. has there ever been a perl version?

[17:48:00]

rcsd_sysop:

sphyery* dang

[17:48:09]

GreyFoxx:

someguy claimd to have rewritten the entire thing in like a hundred lines of pero

[17:48:09]

cityLights3:

justinh: can myth do commercial detecting without decompressing the mpeg stream?

[17:48:12]

rcsd_sysop:

* gives up

[17:48:17]

sphery:

rcsd_sysop: no, that was a guy who got all mad on the -users list about how Myth was big and bloated and Perl would be better

[17:48:17]

GreyFoxx:

it was ridiculous :)

[17:48:19]

justinh:

actually last time I looked at ohloh.net they had some quotable stats that could be thrown at people who whine for features

[17:48:34]

GreyFoxx:

cityLights3: Decompression is not nearly as hard as encodin

[17:48:43]

justinh:

cityLights3: you don't need to transcode to mpeg4 is what I was saying

[17:48:47]

rcsd_sysop:

haha good fun

[17:49:10]

justinh:

hdd space has never been cheaper

[17:49:24]

cityLights3:

GreyFoxx: and I was intending to ask if myth will use the GPU to decompress the tv stream..

[17:49:27]

wagnerrp:

cityLights3: i actually calculated it a few days ago, and transcoding saves you something like $0.05 per GB of original mpeg2 recording

[17:49:57]

cityLights3:

but this today when a 1.5Tb cost 100$

[17:49:59]

GreyFoxx:

IT can if you use the beta version with recent nvidia drivers (VDPAU)

[17:50:03]

justinh:

here you go.. take a peek at this & scroll down to 'project cost' : https://www.ohloh.net/p/mythtv

[17:50:09]

wagnerrp:

when you factor in cpu power costs and all, its just not worth YOUR time to transcode

[17:50:11]

cityLights3:

and this mpeg2 looks crap to me

[17:50:17]

sphery:

rcsd_sysop: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/187428#187428 (so, it was 1731 lines of perl versus 113Klines of C++)

[17:50:27]

sphery:

cityLights3: likely need higher bitrate

[17:50:36]

gbee:

bloated indeed, the compiled mythbackend binary is just 5Mb (less with symbol visibility)

[17:50:50]

justinh:

and that salary of $55,000 is peanuts in the dev world I bet

[17:51:21]

cityLights3:

justinh: what 55K$,

[17:51:51]

cityLights3:

does using mpeg2 tv cards allow using more tv cards in the same mobo?

[17:51:58]

rcsd_sysop:

sphery: now that's a good read, thanks for pointing it out

[17:52:07]

wagnerrp:

cityLights3: i have a pair in my system

[17:52:08]

sphery:

yeah, I re-read it for fun sometimes

[17:52:11]

cityLights3:

of does pci allow sevral card , bandwidth?

[17:52:31]

wagnerrp:

the PCI bus has some 133MB/s theoretical bandwidth

[17:52:37]

cityLights3:

(seems I am bad with the keyboard – sorry)

[17:52:39]

wagnerrp:

an mpeg encoder consumes about 1MB/s of that

[17:52:58]

cityLights3:

how much for un compressed video?

[17:53:04]

cityLights3:

20Mb/s?

[17:53:23]

cityLights3:

so you are limited to three cards.. right?

[17:53:30]

gbee:

for SD around 8Mb/s max

[17:53:51]

gbee:

for HD 22Mb/s max, less in the US ~19Mb/s

[17:54:04]

gbee:

I have three cards in one backend, four in another

[17:54:10]

sphery:

cityLights3: remember there's a difference between MB/sec (1,000,000 /bytes/ per second) and Mb/sec (1,000,000 /bits/ per second)

[17:54:20]

wagnerrp:

cityLights3: with uncompressed framegrabbers, you usually run out of CPU power and other resources before running out of bus bandwidth

[17:54:31]

sphery:

currently, the difference is a factor of 8 :)

[17:54:57]

cityLights3:

I should say this I really want to contrib code to mythtv – as I like it alot, yet I am in my first year of CS and should go back to coding the evolution assigment

[17:55:56]

cityLights3:

wagnerrp: pls explian , how much cpu power does one SD card not using mpeg2 consumes?

[17:55:56]

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[17:56:28]

sphery:

heh, j-rod has a pic on ohloh that might actually be him

[17:56:54]

wagnerrp:

your old 1.6Ghz system you were talking about earlier might only have enough power to encode one stream in real time, two would be pushing it

[17:57:24]

wagnerrp:

in comparison i could throw one of my mpeg encoders into a P1 200MHz and record just fine

[17:57:24]

cityLights3:

wagnerrp: right I remeber that spec

[17:57:47]

sphery:

hardware encoders are the way to go

[17:57:54]

cityLights3:

yet I red back then that the 1.8 cpus allowed real time encoding of mpeg2 to mpeg4

[17:58:01]

sphery:

(though I have the completely opposite stance on /de/coding)

[17:58:25]

cityLights3:

min

[17:58:36]

sphery:

cityLights3: it was probably the real-time-encoding of uncompressed (frame grabber) video to MPEG-4

[17:58:58]

sphery:

Myth doesn't real-time /trans/code. It can real-time /en/code, only.

[17:59:02]

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[17:59:03]

cityLights3:

now why would anyone use mpeg2 today , giving mpeg4 is so much better?

[17:59:27]

wagnerrp:

because mpeg2asp really isnt considerably better

[17:59:37]

wagnerrp:

AVC was only spec'd to take half the space of mpeg2

[17:59:39]

sphery:

(unless you consider encoding from uncompressed YUV (or whatever) to MPEG-4 or RTJPEG "transcoding")

[17:59:39]

cityLights3:

this is what I ment reffering to using the GPU

[18:00:57]

tank-man:

for me, i record in mpeg2 cause my ps3 can't read mpg4 in nuv container

[18:00:57]

sphery:

yeah, MPEG-4 AVC is better only in that it allows equal quality at lower bitrate. However, for Myth, bitrate only translates to HDD storage (whereas for satellite/cable co's it's bandwidth) and while bandwidth is still expensive, HDD storage is far from expensive.

[18:01:02]

cityLights3:

let me ask it again: assuming I will allways want to flag commercials and save the shows in mpeg4 to save space, does it make sense to record uding mpeg2?

[18:01:42]

wagnerrp:

if it means using an mpeg encoder card, absolutely

[18:01:47]

cityLights3:

ok, so?

[18:01:53]

wagnerrp:

these days, ivtv cards 'just work'

[18:02:00]

sphery:

regardless of what format you use for the initial recording, you'll be going from a lossy format to another lossy format when transcoding, so you'll have a generational loss in there

[18:02:01]

wagnerrp:

framegrabbers are a pain

[18:02:43]

cityLights3:

so I should encode in the tv card to mpeg2 -> save to hard disk -> open the stream in the cpu and flag the commercial -> encode to mpeg2 again?

[18:03:04]

wagnerrp:

technically its not encoding again

[18:03:15]

sphery:

RTJPEG, MPEG-2, MPEG-4 are all lossy. If you record to MPEG-4 and do /not/ re-encode, you won't get that added loss of quality. However, you will get MPEG-4 in a NuppelVideo container, which means you may have to export the recording to another container to make it usable on non-Myth apps/devices.

[18:03:19]

wagnerrp:

you clip the commercials, and do some cleanup around the cutpoints

[18:03:20]

cityLights3:

only dropping frames?

[18:03:39]

wagnerrp:

but the resultant file is largely the same data

[18:04:05]

cityLights3:

does anyone use recording to lossless then encode to mpe4?

[18:04:16]

sphery:

cityLights3: and, really, commercial /flagging/ is only finding the commercials. They're left in by default. Though you /can/ re-encode, you should only do so after inspecting the flag list and turning it into a cut list.

[18:04:41]

wagnerrp:

i externally transcoded a couple episodes

[18:04:53]

sphery:

And, with 1.5TB HDD for $99.99, that's a /lot/ of time spent to save $0.20 per hour recording

[18:05:00]

cityLights3:

I thought you do commercial flaggin using spectrum analysis

[18:05:07]

wagnerrp:

took the cut file out of mythtv, ran IVTC and encoded to h264

[18:05:24]

wagnerrp:

it took a whopping 6 hours for a 22min episode

[18:05:46]

cityLights3:

this is way we shold use the GPU

[18:05:55]

cityLights3:

GPU are good at that

[18:06:00]

wagnerrp:

now the 800MB file was nearly indistinguishable from the original 3.5GB recording

[18:06:06]

sphery:

(I.e. my MPEG-2 HDTV is about 6GiB/hr on average. HDD's are going for $0.10/GB or less, so if you cut commercials without transcoding, you're saving maybe 30% of the space, meaning you save 2GiB/1hr of recorded TV).

[18:06:06]

wagnerrp:

but it just wasnt worth my time

[18:06:18]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

cityLights3: Yeah, think of commercial flagging like setting chapter markers in your recording. The commericals are still there, but myth skips them during playback.

[18:06:51]

wagnerrp:

cityLights3: the problem is that ffmpeg is a MASSIVE project

[18:06:54]

cityLights3:

ya ya metadata flagging

[18:07:02]

wagnerrp:

that is a huge code base to try to convert over to CUDA

[18:07:19]

cityLights3:

I dont understand

[18:07:19]

wagnerrp:

and CUDA has only even been available on linux since november

[18:07:30]

wagnerrp:

or some time in january if you want to go by non-beta releases

[18:07:58]

cityLights3:

does myth uses spectral tools to tell comercials apart?

[18:08:00]

wagnerrp:

before that, you would have to write for the pixel shaders on individual graphics generations

[18:08:12]

sphery:

cityLights3: and, note that an idle processor (at a given frequency) may run at 20W or so less than a processor running at max--and that's without factoring in the power savings from frequency scaling--so there's actually a dollar cost to transcoding to "save space"

[18:08:19]

wagnerrp:

(CUDA is nVidia's GPU programming language)

[18:08:45]

cityLights3:

yes yes I read /.

[18:08:48]

cityLights3:

ok

[18:08:50]

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[18:09:10]

cityLights3:

so I understand you DOnt decode to find the commercial in a mpeg2 stream

[18:09:13]

cityLights3:

right?

[18:09:26]

sphery:

you decode, but you do so to memory (not to disk)

[18:09:29]

wagnerrp:

you have to decode to do any sort of analysis on a video stream

[18:09:33]

cityLights3:

times have changed....

[18:09:33]

sphery:

you don't /en/code

[18:09:45]

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[18:09:48]

cityLights3:

I see

[18:09:53]

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[18:10:09]

sphery:

decode to memory to get the individual frames so you can do "image analysis" on them

[18:10:14]

wagnerrp:

decoding mpeg2 is fairly trivial on modern processors

[18:10:15]

cityLights3:

so , isnt decoding expensive?

[18:10:19]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

cityLights3: it's just like playback, but instead of displaying on your screen, it's analyzing the frams in memory.

[18:10:32]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

'frames' even... ;-)

[18:10:39]

cityLights3:

compared to saving the capture uncompressed

[18:10:40]

cityLights3:

?

[18:11:02]

sphery:

uncompressed is huge--even for 1.5TB HDD's

[18:11:08]

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[18:11:12]

cityLights3:

( I am slow with the kybd)

[18:11:15]

wagnerrp:

~10% CPU does realtime comm-flagging on my mpeg encoders, maybe 30% on my HDTV streams

[18:11:19]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

cityLights3: Perhaps, but do you have the multiple-GB of space for more than a dozen recordings in non-compressed format???

[18:11:23]

dustybin:

is mythtv one big act of subversive playful cleverness ?

[18:11:30]

wagnerrp:

and thats on a lowly 2GHz single-core Athlon

[18:11:52]

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[18:12:07]

iamlindoro__:

dustybin: Is dustybin a cruel joke played on a dwindling UK genepool?

[18:12:18]

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[18:12:19]

cityLights3:

what idoes" is mythtv one big act of subversive playful cleverness ?" mean?

[18:12:38]

iamlindoro__:

It means nothing, like everything he says

[18:12:44]

cityLights3:

wagnerrp: ok I dig you

[18:12:49]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

cityLights3: consider it this way — an un-compressed music cd – 44.1khz, 16 bit – ~700MB. compressed to mp3, the songs are nearly the same quality, and probably only 80MB total...

[18:12:54]

wagnerrp:

YUV only takes half the space of raw RGB, but thats still ~30MB/s for analog NTSC

[18:13:14]

cityLights3:

now for quality, does the ivtv cards offer better quality then good BT878 cards>

[18:13:15]

cityLights3:

?

[18:13:16]

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[18:13:19]

dustybin:

“The whole GNU project is really one big hack. It’s one big act of subversive playful cleverness…” Richard Stallman

[18:13:31]

sphery:

cityLights3: we're talking 10,368,000 pixels per second for 720x480p30 or 720x480i60 video. If you figure 12bpp, that's 14.8MiB/sec. 1920x1080i60 is 6 times as many pixels (and 6 times the storage) as the standard def

[18:13:38]

iamlindoro__:

Stallman is a moron too, for the record

[18:13:49]

wagnerrp:

now you could make the claim for huffman, that would drop you below 10MB/s, but thats still far more than most people are capable of pushing over their network to other frontends

[18:13:54]

sphery:

cityLights3: makes you appreciate how efficient MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 encoding is

[18:13:55]

** iamlindoro__ wonders if dustybin is growing his Stallman worship beard yet **

[18:13:58]

cityLights3:

YUV is lose-less

[18:14:03]

cityLights3:

no quality loss there

[18:14:17]

sphery:

right, but YUV is 12bpp

[18:14:22]

sphery:

(generally)

[18:15:04]

sphery:

oh, and 1280x720p60 is also about 6 times the storage of SDTV for uncompressed (because it's about half the pixels, but twice the frame rate)

[18:15:06]

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[18:15:24]

cityLights3:

wait

[18:15:32]

sphery:

so, we're talking about 80–90MiB/sec for uncompressed HDTV

[18:15:35]

cityLights3:

ok I got the compresstion thing

[18:15:50]

cityLights3:

I want to know about the quality of new cards

[18:16:02]

cityLights3:

I am reffring only to SD

[18:16:31]

cityLights3:

I had three BT crads with varius quality

[18:16:35]

sphery:

biggest quality difference comes from going from analog (where the transmission medium is archaic--NTSC or PAL) to digital (even digital SDTV)

[18:16:43]

iamlindoro__:

Going from "crud" to "garbage"?

[18:16:51]

cityLights3:

the new saa card I got is so so compared to the best BT card

[18:16:52]

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[18:16:59]

cityLights3:

what is your opinion?

[18:17:11]

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[18:17:42]

sphery:

technically it's possible to get the best quality from frame grabbers because you can apply filters to the input as you encode (given sufficient processor power). But, the quality of the Hauppauge PVR-150/PVR-500 is actually quite good--assuming a clean input signal (i.e. from a digital set-top box from satellite or cable)

[18:17:47]

wagnerrp:

on a channel with a good signal, i cant really tell the difference between the original stream on my tv, and the one recorded, compressed, and played back through mythtv

[18:17:55]

cityLights3:

right I am comparring only SD and only analog

[18:18:07]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

cityLights3: I personally think 'framegrabber' cards suck. I use Hauppauge PVR tuners that have on-board MPEG2 encoders.

[18:18:16]

sphery:

if you have a garbage analog signal, you get garbage output--so a bad analog cable connection or a bad antenna reception

[18:18:49]

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[18:19:02]

sphery:

if you're only looking at SD and only analog, the capture card isn't the weak link in the chain--it's the NTSC or PAL

[18:19:06]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

GIGO – Garbage In, Garbage Out

[18:19:36]

cityLights3:

I have a flytv bt card that gives bad quality when another gives better quality then Hauppauge saa card

[18:19:45]

sphery:

thanks, Guagmire (Oh, wait, that would be, "GIGO-ty, GIGO-ty")

[18:20:10]

sphery:

cityLights3: there are actually some very poor quality frame grabbers

[18:20:18]

wagnerrp:

cityLights3: it all boils back down to ease of use

[18:20:31]

cityLights3:

I had the option of choosing the hvr-1110 or the 1300 , the later has a mpeg2 encoder

[18:20:34]

sphery:

but, the technology hasn't progressed in the last 5 years... Instead, it's a matter of quality.

[18:20:37]

wagnerrp:

mpeg encoders give you a nice stream straight out of the card

[18:20:55]

cityLights3:

right

[18:21:05]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

The only time I even considered a framegrabber was to be able to pull in the digital audio off of my sat receiver, but I never went that far...

[18:21:07]

cityLights3:

but they dont supply better quality

[18:21:28]

wagnerrp:

framegrabbers, you have to worry about large amounts of data, capturing audio, encoding audio and video, making sure they match up properly

[18:21:31]

cityLights3:

and for SD and anlog and a single tv pc , it makes no difference – right?

[18:21:48]

wagnerrp:

and in the end, you end up with a nuv that you cannot use anywhere outside mythtv

[18:21:56]

cityLights3:

brb

[18:22:09]

sphery:

Hardware encoders are much easier to get good quality out of... It's possible to get slightly better quality out of a frame grabber (at the cost of your configuration time and processor time/power usage)

[18:22:59]

sphery:

so, if you want quick and easy and good, hardware encoder. If you don't mind tinkering with settings/filters/... to get the best possible quality you can get from your garbage analog signal, then a /good/ quality frame grabber could be appropriate.

[18:23:13]

sphery:

But, if you're really that concerned about quality, digital is the way to go. (IMHO)

[18:23:45]

sphery:

(and the best quality is digital straight to the Myth box--i.e. ATSC or DVB)

[18:24:21]

cityLights3:

ya ya

[18:24:32]

cityLights3:

but I only have analog SD here..

[18:24:53]

cityLights3:

pls name a GOOD tv card for this

[18:24:59]

cityLights3:

what filters should I look in to?

[18:25:11]

cityLights3:

can I apply noise filters?

[18:25:24]

cityLights3:

3d noise filters?

[18:25:37]

sphery:

available filters: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-10.html#ss10.4

[18:25:53]

sphery:

I can't name a good analog tv card (I don't use any)

[18:25:53]

cityLights3:

thanks

[18:26:02]

cityLights3:

:-)

[18:27:00]

cityLights3:

i would preffering setting a filter chain then save as mpeg4 to view later...

[18:27:11]

cityLights3:

and then mpeg2 means little to me

[18:27:19]

cityLights3:

ok

[18:27:41]

cityLights3:

I printer the directions for fixing my sql db (ha ha )

[18:27:51]

cityLights3:

take care, I am off to code

[18:28:48]

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[18:29:18]

cityLights3:

almost forgot to ask what does the fftw flag means?

[18:29:31]

cityLights3:

do you really need fft in myth?

[18:29:41]

wagnerrp:

fastest fourier transform in the west

[18:29:49]

cityLights3:

right

[18:29:59]

RyeBrye:

is it used by the timeshift? (I don't know)

[18:30:00]

cityLights3:

so why would I build myth without it?

[18:30:19]

wagnerrp:

do you want an oscilliscope in mythmusic?

[18:30:29]

cityLights3:

I just remeged it to include this flag

[18:30:39]

cityLights3:

no I dont

[18:30:41]

wagnerrp:

i dont know of anything else that uses it

[18:30:51]

cityLights3:

I only thought It is use for comercial flagging

[18:31:14]

wagnerrp:

ryebrye may be right... it might need it to maintain proper tone when stretching/compressing playback

[18:31:49]

cityLights3:

ok , I am off , byebye

[18:34:04]

sphery:

cityLights3: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/325101#325101 and the linked thread ( http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/313402#313402 )

[18:35:24]

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[18:35:32]

sphery:

cityLights3: if you have any comments/suggestions on the page about fixing the DB charset corruption, please let me know (you can leave a message here and I'll find it in scrollback or e-mail it to me with Myth in the subject http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine? . . . ;list=mythtv )

[18:35:44]

sphery:

thanks

[18:36:16]

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[18:37:07]

dougl:

I have configured spdif to work but the audio for mkv files is good while the playpack of a mpg file is accelerated – any suggestions?

[18:37:43]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: with all these recent long posts and the long wiki pages, people are going to start wondering if they were wrong about /you/ having multiple online personalities and they'll think you're one of /my/ online personalities

[18:37:57]

iamlindoro__:

sphery: Stop talking to yourself

[18:38:19]

sphery:

dougl: you have a 32kHz audio stream and your ALSA is misconfigured

[18:39:01]

sphery:

dougl: your sound card is reading the 32kHz audio as if it's 48kHz, so it plays back fast. In the mkv, you have 48kHz audio, so it plays right.

[18:39:03]

justinh:

hehehe. MythTV... the $20 million project

[18:39:19]

wagnerrp:

justinh?

[18:39:50]

justinh:

estimated 376 man years to make, average salary of $55,000 per person

[18:39:56]

sphery:

dougl: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Configuring_Digital_Sound

[18:40:04]

RyeBrye:

that salary seems low

[18:40:08]

sphery:

wouldn't that be people years

[18:40:18]

RyeBrye:

sphery: no, women can't code

[18:40:23]

justinh:

that's what ohloh.net reckons

[18:40:24]

** RyeBrye jokes **

[18:40:34]

wagnerrp:

thats at the average code writing speed for professional programmers?

[18:40:46]

sphery:

RyeBrye: yeah, I don't think I'd take a full-time job working on Myth for $55K. I'd rather have a different job and do Myth for $0 in my free time.

[18:40:48]

justinh:

RyeBrye: does that mean that everybody who says "I can't code but" is a woman? :-O

[18:40:49]

RyeBrye:

I think they just look purely at LOC

[18:41:07]

dougl:

sphery, thanks – checking http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/HD_Playback_Reports & http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Configuring_Digita . . . Requirements

[18:41:17]

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[18:41:45]

sphery:

dougl: I will warn you that there's a lot of completely wrong info on that page, but if you happen to find (or randomly choose) the right parts, it has all you need :)

[18:42:11]

justinh:

about time people stopped talking about the wrong info on that page & put it right ;)

[18:42:19]

** sphery shudders as the mistreatment of the IEC958 status bits **

[18:42:41]

sphery:

I put it right once, then 2 days later it got put back to re-wrong

[18:42:43]

sphery:

I gave up

[18:42:53]

justinh:

who did it? I'll have a word

[18:43:11]

justinh:

they'll never contribute again. I have that affect on people

[18:43:29]

wagnerrp:

gonna go bust some caps? split some wigs?

[18:43:39]

sphery:

just a lot of random people... "You don't have to do this on <insert distro>" "You need to turn the volume of IEC958 down to 0 to get S/PDIF playback" or whatever...

[18:44:00]

sphery:

They never realize that their one experience is /not/ the sum of all other users' experiences

[18:44:08]

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[18:44:24]

sphery:

(i.e. they didn't test every single sound card or every single distro or they just plain misunderstood some basic ALSA concepts)

[18:44:25]

justinh:

sphery: part of the problem is that in alsamixer, it's actually not even labelled as a routing thing

[18:44:32]

wagnerrp:

sphery: what? i thought everyone used <insert distro here>

[18:44:34]

sphery:

But, on the bright side, I have hope that ALSA will die

[18:44:56]

sphery:

justinh: yeah, people don't realize that some are just switches

[18:45:13]

justinh:

sphery: took me a wee while to figure it out by experimentation

[18:45:35]

justinh:

the actual documentation for it was buried in the code somewhere IIRC

[18:45:59]

sphery:

yeah, I didn't intuit it, either

[18:46:01]

wagnerrp:

my audigy is like that, has some switch to flip between analog and digital mode

[18:46:13]

wagnerrp:

but for some reason the alsa mixer default is digital

[18:46:26]

wagnerrp:

so every time i rebuild that box, i forget and it has no audio

[18:46:31]

sphery:

You have to learn it somewhere, but that's not nearly as annoying as people saying, "This page is long and complex and you don't have to do it, anyway, so don't read it."

[18:47:16]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, and the funny part is that few sound cards actually have the physical connections (wiring to the chipset) to support the digital input

[18:47:29]

c0p3rn1c:

is it normal for the mythtv sat channel scanner to hang at "looking for network information"?

[18:47:46]

sphery:

but, that's ALSA for you... Generalized to the point of complete and utter confusion

[18:47:50]

justinh:

c0p3rn1c: depends. did you give it an initial transponder to scan?

[18:47:51]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i would believe mine has that wiring

[18:47:53]

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[18:48:13]

c0p3rn1c:

justinh: transponder?

[18:48:22]

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[18:48:28]

sphery:

yeah, but I have 3 that don't have the wiring, and yet the default was to use the digital input

[18:48:41]

justinh:

c0p3rn1c: yes, you can't just do a complete blind scan

[18:48:52]

c0p3rn1c:

I'm using the script

[18:48:53]

sphery:

isn't there a /wonderful/ DVB-S howto on the wiki written by some iamlindoro__ guy?

[18:48:58]

justinh:

c0p3rn1c: what script?

[18:49:00]

iamlindoro__:

That guy's a douche

[18:49:03]

jams:

sphery- now you need to convince the rest of the linux community that OSS > alsa

[18:49:13]

wagnerrp:

sphery: when did you start using satellite?

[18:49:16]

sphery:

c0p3rn1c: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S

[18:49:20]

c0p3rn1c:

it's mentionned in the wiki

[18:49:37]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I'm not... I just remember seeing the page iamlindoro__ wrote.

[18:49:54]

wagnerrp:

but are you one in the same?

[18:50:02]

sphery:

jams: I wish I could... Unfortunately no one listens to me.

[18:50:03]

justinh:

the word 'script' is not seen on http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S

[18:50:10]

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[18:50:10]

justinh:

who said that?

[18:50:11]

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[18:50:21]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, I missed that

[18:50:36]

c0p3rn1c:

justinh: in the user manual

[18:50:55]

c0p3rn1c:

setting up dvb-s for sat

[18:50:58]

sphery:

c0p3rn1c: the wiki page is probably the most up-to-date: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S

[18:51:25]

justinh:

does the user manual even mention dvb-s ?

[18:51:40]

c0p3rn1c:

yes

[18:51:46]

justinh:

it's at this point that we discover somebody is using a mythtv distro

[18:51:48]

c0p3rn1c:

sphery: ok thanks, I'll be sure to try that

[18:52:30]

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[18:52:34]

gbee:

c0p3rn1c: which user manual?

[18:52:36]

dougl:

sphery, lol – err could you just point me to the right info?

[18:52:52]

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[18:52:53]

justinh:

no official documentation recommends using a 'script' to scan for channels AFAIK

[18:53:43]

c0p3rn1c:

justinh: I was following this wiki http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Manual:Settin . . . e#References

[18:54:09]

justinh:

"Scanning satellites in Myth is a painful, error prone process. A couple of handy programs to help you circumvent myth's pain are:"

[18:54:12]

justinh:

ffs

[18:54:34]

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[18:54:54]

c0p3rn1c:

I'm guessing it's not up-to date or plain wrong :)

[18:54:58]

iamlindoro__:

"Users of myth are a painful, error prone lot"

[18:55:13]

iamlindoro__:

Especially those editing wikis after building their first mythbox

[18:55:13]

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[18:55:25]

justinh:

ah. edited by the guy who kept putting up links to sasquatch in his talk page

[18:55:56]

sphery:

that's one of those forboten topics?

[18:55:56]

iamlindoro__:

Painful and error prone is generally due to limited/no understanding of how myth works

[18:56:01]

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[18:56:03]

iamlindoro__:

sass kenji

[18:56:20]

justinh:

opinions are not welcome in user manual pages, I'd have assumed

[18:56:30]

justinh:

facts would be much more useful

[18:56:45]

iamlindoro__:

EXTERMINATE

[18:57:06]

c0p3rn1c:

bbl, going to try that other wiki you guys suggested

[18:57:26]

justinh:

the problem with some of this is that the sec somebody changes it to be factual, it'll get re-edited

[18:57:39]

justinh:

then a war of attrition ensues & the people with the facts give up

[18:58:18]

justinh:

and if people aren't up to no good wth is d**hnet all about?

[19:00:47]

gbee:

who's putting utter crap in the wiki?

[19:00:59]

iamlindoro__:

everyone

[19:01:11]

laga:

justinh:

[19:01:13]

RyeBrye:

but if a consensus agrees on something – it's wikiTrue

[19:01:15]

laga:

he is

[19:01:19]

gbee:

scanning DVB-S was entirely pain free

[19:01:28]

RyeBrye:

even if your "experience" and "knowledge" would seem to contradict that ;)

[19:01:58]

laga:

gbee: if you ignore the fact that the UI is.. counter-intuitive and that you need to enter an initial transponder

[19:02:58]

gbee:

laga: well there are two areas where it could be improved – LNB setup (we should default to assuming a universal LNB) and yes, the starting frequency

[19:03:00]

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[19:03:02]

justinh:

laga: that's what the http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S page is about

[19:03:16]

laga:

gbee: well, the LNB setup certainly is the biggest fuckup :)

[19:03:32]

justinh:

not stating _opinion_ about the performance of mythtv-setup's scanning

[19:03:37]

gbee:

I'm not going to try and defend those

[19:04:08]

justinh:

well, now the user manual index links to http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S instead

[19:04:23]

sphery:

nice

[19:04:35]

laga:

that page looks good

[19:05:50]

justinh:

do we need to have regular patrols of the wiki keeping on top of all the crap?

[19:06:11]

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[19:06:16]

sphery:

would we call them the crap patrol?

[19:06:18]

iamlindoro__:

It'd be nice to set certain pages to moderate the changes

[19:06:23]

iamlindoro__:

(if possible)

[19:06:23]

sphery:

or just assign people to crap duties?

[19:06:27]

justinh:

wiki police :)

[19:06:31]

iamlindoro__:

ie any major topic must have changes approved

[19:06:39]

iamlindoro__:

that way anyone can edit but an admin must approve

[19:06:54]

RyeBrye:

kid tested, admin aproved

[19:06:57]

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[19:06:57]

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[19:07:00]

wagnerrp:

thats a basic function in mediawiki isnt it?

[19:07:21]

iamlindoro__:

Probably

[19:08:03]

sphery:

does Jay Ashworth still frequent the lists? Wasn't he kind of the guy who took on wiki stuff

[19:08:27]

jams:

also known as baylink

[19:08:57]

justinh:

who was it threw in the towel about the 'sucks' page again?

[19:09:04]

laga:

justinh: you?

[19:09:17]

justinh:

well yeah.. but...

[19:09:46]

justinh:

this entitlement culture BS bugs me but somebody was fighting to keep the page

[19:10:30]

wagnerrp:

i think its important to have a page like that

[19:10:45]

wagnerrp:

at least for people who want to start getting involved, but had no desires of their own

[19:10:45]

iamlindoro__:

To establish targets for the purge?

[19:11:01]

justinh:

so we can blacklist the people who post to it & stop them ever posting again?

[19:11:35]

justinh:

ffs everything in life could use some improvements

[19:11:36]

wagnerrp:

basically, a list of 'if you want to start working on mythtv, here are some ideas'

[19:11:49]

justinh:

there's already about 10 pages of that

[19:11:55]

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[19:11:59]

justinh:

some of the ideas are actually quite sane

[19:12:14]

wagnerrp:

oh, right... there is a separate feature requests page

[19:12:27]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the 'mythtv sucks' could be gone

[19:12:55]

justinh:

it's still kind of a /dev/null though

[19:13:16]

justinh:

but some people reading it from time to time is better than nobody ever reading it

[19:13:39]

yalu:

Hi ... I have a Q. I want to re-encode in mpeg-4 (recording pal), what bitrate is recommended to use?

[19:13:42]

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[19:14:02]

justinh:

yalu: whatever you find sucks least to your eyes

[19:14:07]

justinh:

experiment :)

[19:14:18]

wagnerrp:

usually thats somewhere in the 2mbps range

[19:15:05]

yalu:

lol

[19:15:05]

justinh:

put it this way, if you chuck away half the resolution you can go as low as 600kbps before it starts to suck really badly

[19:15:29]

justinh:

so double the res.. I doubt I'd want to watch anything at less than 1.5mbits/sec

[19:16:31]

justinh:

word to the wise.. filesizes can go up as well as down. your diskspace is at risk if you fail to transcode to lower file sizes

[19:18:06]

yalu:

my primary aim is to cut disk space usage . I mean right now I have dvb recordings which are 1 GByte per half hour or so. Could be better with mpeg4.

[19:18:20]

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[19:18:29]

iamlindoro__:

2 GB an hour is teensy :)

[19:18:29]

justinh:

could be better with a much bigger HDD :)

[19:19:05]

justinh:

there are those who are advocates of transcoding & keeping lots. I am not one of them

[19:19:12]

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[19:19:17]

wagnerrp:

so... youre not recording PAL, youre recording DVB

[19:19:19]

wagnerrp:

what resolution?

[19:19:32]

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[19:19:33]

justinh:

720x576 or 704x576 generally

[19:19:55]

wagnerrp:

oh, thats right... most of your stuff is still SD

[19:20:03]

quadtree:

ah, the sweet pre-hd days when recording was only 1–2 GB per hour

[19:20:11]

c0p3rn1c:

how do you copy-paste something from the mini console launched by mythtv-setup?

[19:20:15]

justinh:

wagnerrp: yes, at higher equivalent bitrates than your mpeg2 'HD'

[19:20:40]

iamlindoro__:

c0p3rn1c: Mythtv-setup doesn't launch a console-- though on ubuntu and derivatives they've wrapped mythtv-setup in their own script

[19:20:47]

wagnerrp:

yeah, 24 seems to be pretty pathetic

[19:20:49]

iamlindoro__:

which is probably what you're using/seeing

[19:20:53]

wagnerrp:

only 3GB after stripping commercials

[19:21:00]

justinh:

iamlindoro__: and the xmltv configuration script

[19:21:12]

justinh:

you guys would never have seen one of those :P

[19:21:15]

iamlindoro__:

justinh: Ah, learn something every day

[19:21:16]

iamlindoro__:

yeah

[19:21:32]

justinh:

hrm.. how to copy/paste in loonix...

[19:21:44]

justinh:

I know this one..

[19:21:45]

cityLights3:

I read why my db maybe coroupted: I want to know, can I start over with importing mc.sql ?

[19:22:03]

iamlindoro__:

If you don't care about your DB contents, sure

[19:22:05]

justinh:

cityLights3: sure, if you drop the old database

[19:22:11]

wagnerrp:

cityLights3: you have to dump everything, then import mc.sql

[19:22:26]

iamlindoro__:

open up mysql, do drop database mythconverg;, then use the mc.sql script to create it anew

[19:22:30]

wagnerrp:

but thats only AFTER fixing the mysql config files because gentoo does something different than mythtv expects

[19:22:41]

cityLights3:

ok, how to dump it all then import a freash start?

[19:22:57]

wagnerrp:

and you dont have to start over, that page sphery sent you should explain how to convert it over

[19:23:03]

** iamlindoro__ feels like he just explained that **

[19:23:27]

wagnerrp:

you must go to that page to figure out how to fix mysql anyway

[19:23:38]

wagnerrp:

beyond the database, you have to fix the actual server

[19:23:44]

cityLights3:

ok, I dont mind losing the info, just want to see utf, as it didnt work at 0.20

[19:24:05]

cityLights3:

ok, I will fix the serer before dumping

[19:24:06]

iamlindoro__:

it won't work in .21 either.

[19:24:23]

iamlindoro__:

only trunk does UTF-8 ATM

[19:24:34]

cityLights3:

so only after 0.22 I can see utf?

[19:24:43]

wagnerrp:

0.22 and after

[19:24:45]

c0p3rn1c:

iamlindoro:ic, ctrl-shift-instert doesnt work and ctrl-shift-c doesnt work ether

[19:24:49]

cityLights3:

thanks

[19:25:10]

wagnerrp:

cityLights3: the change to utf-8 is what caused the whole problem with gentoo databases

[19:25:12]

cityLights3:

oh ya , is this chanel loged?

[19:25:23]

c0p3rn1c:

I'm asking because mythtv-setup hangs while scanning

[19:25:23]

laga:

yes

[19:25:28]

iamlindoro__:

c0p3rn1c: Again, if you're using ubuntu or derivative, ask them, they're the ones spawning some weirdo terminal

[19:25:38]

wagnerrp:

because of the way mysql is set up in gentoo, the schema update for people moving to trunk fails

[19:25:45]

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[19:26:05]

cityLights3:

wagnerrp: can I fix the gentoo install?

[19:26:20]

wagnerrp:

cityLights3: the page sphery linked to

[19:26:21]

cityLights3:

for good, so other ppl will benifit?

[19:26:26]

sphery:

cityLights3: but if you start over you /still/ have to fix your DB server configuration... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Fixing_Corrupt_Dat . . . onfiguration

[19:26:27]

cityLights3:

ok

[19:27:25]

sphery:

cityLights3: no, you can't fix the gentoo install... If you do at this point, then some people will end up with DB's with some broken data and some good data. It's /much/ harder to fix it when only some is corrupt, so it's better that their 0.21-fixes and below data remain corrupt until they upgrade to 0.22 (when released)

[19:27:36]

Der_Thomas:

Hey all, just upgraded my FE box from a Athlon 3200+ to a new Mobo + Athlon X2 BE-2300. Same video card, Nvidia 5200 nad having crazy video trouble

[19:28:01]

Der_Thomas:

When I play Videos it plays fine, but if I play recordings, major skipping

[19:28:07]

Der_Thomas:

I get tons of these messages:

[19:28:12]

sphery:

cityLights3: and Cardoe is considering doing some script to fix it in the 0.22/current trunk ebuild... You should talk to him to see what his current plan is and whether you can help.

[19:28:13]

jams:

sphery, is the securityPIN setting global or host specific? in other words whats the hostname in the database for SecurityPin ?

[19:28:25]

Der_Thomas:

NVP: Video is 3.22112 frames behind audio (too slow), dropping frame to catch up.

[19:28:25]

sphery:

NULL (it's global)

[19:28:29]

jams:

thanks

[19:28:46]

jams:

thats what i thought but wanted to doublecheck

[19:28:57]

sphery:

jams: OK, I'm wrong...

[19:29:01]

sphery:

it has a hostname

[19:29:05]

Der_Thomas:

I've checked the Ethernet card, thinking maybe it got set to 1/2 duplex or something weird, but that isn't it

[19:29:15]

jams:

really? but there is only one entry ?

[19:29:28]

sphery:

I have one for each host, but only one has a data value

[19:29:35]

Der_Thomas:

I've checked the video card thinking that maybe the xorg.conf got hosed, but it's still set up OK

[19:29:38]

jams:

huh

[19:29:49]

Der_Thomas:

Anyone have any ideas how to trouble shoot this?

[19:30:01]

jams:

seems like that should be null

[19:30:02]

jams:

oh well

[19:30:05]

sphery:

jams: OK, it /really/ is host-specific (HostLineEdit)

[19:30:27]

wagnerrp:

we really need to get mythtv running on my casio fx7000g

[19:30:27]

sphery:

so it's not just a hangover from upgrading my system before it settled

[19:30:46]

sphery:

jams: I agree...

[19:31:03]

jams:

but all the %SCHEMAVAR% are NULL ?

[19:31:29]

sphery:

I can't see why anyone would ever want different ones on different hosts...

[19:32:07]

mchou:

Der_Thomas: yeah. most likely it's your kernel

[19:32:27]

jams:

well subtract the upnp ones out of the SCHEMAVAR list

[19:32:35]

mchou:

Der_Thomas: I had the same issues earlier

[19:32:57]

sphery:

jams: what's SCHEMAVAR?

[19:32:58]

jams:

Looking at some body elses sql and noticed it didn't match my database. So i'm attempting to fix it

[19:33:07]

Der_Thomas:

mchou, I'm running ubuntu latest on that box, should I upgrade to the 64 bit kernel?

[19:33:15]

sphery:

oh, gotta run...

[19:33:25]

jams:

sphery- run select * from settings where value like '%Schema%';

[19:33:26]

mchou:

it has nothing to do with 32 vs. 64 bit

[19:33:31]

mchou:

Der_Thomas: ^^^

[19:33:48]

jams:

is the hostname all NULL (if you don't count the upnp items"

[19:33:50]

jams:

)

[19:33:58]

mchou:

Der_Thomas: it's about kernel version, compile options, premption, and scheduling

[19:34:01]

c0p3rn1c:

appertly I have to run mythtv-setup like this : sudo taskset -c 0 mythtv-setup because I'm getting the following error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/120701/

[19:34:26]

mchou:

Der_Thomas: older kernels are better, believe it or not

[19:34:36]

Josh_Borke:

c0p3rn1c: there's a bug where you have to run mythtv-setup with only one processor due to a race condition

[19:34:45]

Josh_Borke:

which is elicited during dvb scanning

[19:34:48]

Der_Thomas:

mchou, funny that way huh

[19:34:56]

mchou:

Der_Thomas: I mean as far as responsiveness is concerned

[19:35:12]

Der_Thomas:

mchou, yeah I think I remember seeing something in the wiki about this

[19:35:22]

Der_Thomas:

mchou, how did you fix your problem?

[19:35:35]

c0p3rn1c:

Josh_Borke: ic

[19:35:46]

mchou:

I used another kernel version and everything became normal

[19:35:51]

mchou:

Der_Thomas: ^^^

[19:36:05]

Josh_Borke:

c0p3rn1c: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/358422 is where i read about it

[19:36:33]

Der_Thomas:

mchou, what distro you use?

[19:36:39]

wagnerrp:

c0p3rn1c: it only seems to present itself during scanning

[19:36:52]

mchou:

Der_Thomas: it doesnt have much to do with distro

[19:37:09]

wagnerrp:

and considering thats a rather infrequent task, and a relatively simple fix, no one has bothered fixing the race condition yet

[19:37:21]

mchou:

Der_Thomas: just use a distro with sane compile flags/options for the kernel

[19:37:46]

gbee:

it's not a race condition as a much as QString being thread unsafe in QT3

[19:38:15]

wagnerrp:

so the problem is gone in trunk?

[19:38:18]

c0p3rn1c:

but I only have a single core

[19:38:34]

wagnerrp:

c0p3rn1c: do you have a hyperthreaded P4?

[19:38:39]

gbee:

either way, between QT4 and the scanning re-write underway right now, it won't be a problem in 0.22

[19:38:41]

c0p3rn1c:

I have a athlon xp 2800+

[19:38:51]

gbee:

if it were a simple fix it would have been fixed already

[19:38:58]

yalu:

when transcoding, I vaguely remember there was an option to keep the original file after transcoding ... I can't find or remember where it was.

[19:39:53]

wagnerrp:

gbee: i mean 'taskset' is a simple fix

[19:40:42]

c0p3rn1c:

Josh_Borke: is this error occuring with athlon xp aswell ?

[19:40:46]

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[19:41:07]

wagnerrp:

c0p3rn1c: only with multithreaded machines

[19:41:37]

yalu:

foundd. mythtv-setup, general settings.

[19:42:02]

wagnerrp:

meaning multiprocessor, multicore, or logical multithreaded

[19:42:38]

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[19:42:55]

c0p3rn1c:

so no, because I have a AMD Athlon XP processor

[19:43:29]

c0p3rn1c:

any idea what am I doing wrong ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/120701/

[19:46:28]

c0p3rn1c:

I baught a skystar 2, as far as I know it works out of the box, or am I mistaken?

[19:49:13]

c0p3rn1c:

ok well it's getting late, thanks for all the help , I'll try again tomorrow

[19:49:33]

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[19:52:53]

yalu:

ok, test case. I set up to record two different documentaries, one in 600 kbit and one in 800. we'll see if there's much difference . I fill up 100 GB/month now, it goes pretty quickly

[19:54:44]

gbee:

wagnerrp: ahh

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[19:58:46]

yalu:

I just love mythtv. it took liters of sweat to get working, but it's a joy to use

[19:59:07]

yalu:

only one problem: finding a window between recordings to upgrade the hard disk, hehe

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[20:17:01]

sid3windr:

is it a(n upcoming) feature to reserve a tuner for live tv or is this an "after-market" patch?

[20:17:59]

iamlindoro__:

Is there such a patch? I'm not aware of any official move to do so

[20:22:11]

RyeBrye:

I would be very surprised since liveTV seems to be priority -1 of all the active devs

[20:22:32]

RyeBrye:

keeping a tuner open for liveTV is like keeping a guest room open for the President of the United States

[20:23:29]

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[20:25:06]

iamlindoro__:

Except I like the president a lot more than I like LiveTV :)

[20:25:21]

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[20:25:57]

rcsd_sysop_:

id be ok if either came to my house! but his secret service might be a bit more intrusive than cable tv

[20:29:42]

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[20:30:10]

RyeBrye:

I wouldn't let him in the door until he gave me a bailout

[20:32:33]

sid3windr:

well, I read about it in this channel

[20:32:44]

sid3windr:

at least someone here has 2 out of his 5 or so tuners reserved for livetv

[20:32:44]

cityLights3:

sphery: ping

[20:32:52]

sid3windr:

but I don't remember who ;/

[20:33:28]

cityLights3:

sphery: I would add the quit command at the end of the "Clearing the corrupt database "

[20:34:37]

iamlindoro__:

sid3windr: Someone was full of it, it's not possible in current Myth

[20:35:17]

justinh:

I reserve all my tuners. keep them for scheduled recordings. I'm not telling how I do it

[20:36:07]

rcsd_sysop_:

justinh: dont set up a frontend?

[20:36:19]

justinh:

nah

[20:36:22]

rcsd_sysop_:

haha

[20:37:57]

iamlindoro__:

The correct answer is "never ever ever use live TV"

[20:38:54]

sid3windr:

iamlindoro__: well, maybe $someone made a patch ;)

[20:39:09]

sid3windr:

justinh: I know how you do it ;)

[20:39:24]

sid3windr:

.. by not selecting "watch live tv"

[20:39:31]

sid3windr:

so, completely different thing

[20:39:34]

justinh:

I can't select it

[20:39:40]

sid3windr:

you removed it from the menu? =)

[20:39:40]

justinh:

there's no menu entry

[20:39:42]

sid3windr:

haha

[20:40:03]

sid3windr:

is there an option to browse the filesystem in mythvideo instead of first scanning the structure before displaying it

[20:40:07]

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[20:40:20]

justinh:

not yet

[20:40:33]

sid3windr:

I have to code it first? :>

[20:40:35]

justinh:

AFAIK that's all 'browses files' does

[20:40:45]

cityLights3:

hi all , I just did http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Fixing_Corrupt_Database_Encoding , run mythfilldatabase --file , yet I see the program names as ?????

[20:40:50]

justinh:

in 0.21 at any rate

[20:40:55]

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[20:41:14]

sid3windr:

do you know if it's just on the wiki as a feature request (i'm certainly not the first to think of it) or if it's an actual feature coming up in, say, .22 ?

[20:41:33]

justinh:

sid3windr: I think I remember seeing somebody say that in trunk it'll 'soon' refresh itself

[20:41:43]

GreyFoxx:

If you mean LIVE browsing I doubt thatll happen

[20:41:49]

sid3windr:

I haven't actually timed it but it's certainly taking one hell of a long time between selecting the menu entry and actually showing anything

[20:41:52]

rcsd_sysop_:

sidenote .. how long does it take for anyone to load mythvideo? i'm looking at up to 4 minutes [video's are mounted via sshfs [and/or smb] to a 2tb server]

[20:42:02]

sid3windr:

in the range of 1.5 minute

[20:42:02]

justinh:

what?

[20:42:13]

sid3windr:

rcsd_sysop_: yes, that's kind of my problem too

[20:42:14]

justinh:

bloody hell man how many videos do you have?

[20:42:17]

GreyFoxx:

but in the paste "browses files" read in the list when you went it, which is close to live

[20:42:41]

rcsd_sysop_:

justinh 1.3tb movies/tv shows

[20:42:45]

sid3windr:

when you went in what? into a directory, or into the "view media" option?

[20:43:00]

GreyFoxx:

rcsd_sysop_: About 2 seconds on my box, ~4400 shows/movies spread over 3 TB\s in 2 machines

[20:43:00]

justinh:

rcsd_sysop_: that could be one file for all I know. how many files?

[20:43:10]

GreyFoxx:

side: View media/VideoList/whatever

[20:43:14]

sid3windr:

ew

[20:43:20]

sid3windr:

that really takes over 2 minutes here

[20:43:24]

justinh:

heh

[20:43:31]

justinh:

something is wrong, I'd say :)

[20:43:32]

sid3windr:

nfs-mounted

[20:43:35]

rcsd_sysop_:

justinh: i'll go count

[20:43:47]

justinh:

shouldn't take long anyway

[20:43:47]

GreyFoxx:

something would definitely be wrong if it takes thaqt long

[20:44:00]

justinh:

seconds, not minutes. sheesh mon

[20:44:06]

sid3windr:

storage@khalid:~/Movies$ find|wc -l

[20:44:07]

sid3windr:

6648

[20:44:15]

rcsd_sysop_:

hmm interesting

[20:44:21]

justinh:

did the fact that it was taking so long not ring alarm bells somehow?

[20:44:24]

sid3windr:

I wonder about the number of files though.

[20:44:26]

gbee:

first mistake is using sshfs or samba, nfs should be faster IIRC

[20:44:31]

justinh:

I mean I know myth is open source & all but crhist

[20:44:53]

sid3windr:

storage@khalid:~/Series$ find|wc -l

[20:44:53]

sid3windr:

15799

[20:44:58]

rcsd_sysop_:

sshfs is amazing ... this might not be the best use of it though

[20:44:59]

sid3windr:

I don't know what it all does with each file, justinh ;)

[20:45:02]

sid3windr:

but I'm using nfs

[20:45:21]

sid3windr:

fe & be connected with gigabit, and backend has lots of IO to spare

[20:45:22]

gbee:

aye I use sshfs a lot, but not for a dedicated mount point

[20:45:24]

justinh:

sid3windr: are you using the option "be as slow as possible" ?

[20:45:35]

sid3windr:

justinh: isnt that the default for nfs? :>

[20:45:39]

justinh:

nope

[20:45:43]

justinh:

tis for samba though :P

[20:45:51]

sid3windr:

true dat

[20:45:52]

justinh:

and there's no way to change it

[20:46:10]

justinh:

I looked, and there's also no way to disable 'saturate 100mbit network' either

[20:46:11]

rcsd_sysop_:

find|wc -l 29546

[20:46:18]

sid3windr:

time find|wc -l

[20:46:19]

sid3windr:

6648

[20:46:19]

sid3windr:

real 0m2.621s

[20:46:26]

sid3windr:

this is from the frontend in the mountpoint

[20:46:32]

gbee:

sid3windr: you've got browse files enabled or disabled?

[20:46:37]

sid3windr:

so enumerating the files really takes 2 sec

[20:46:53]

rcsd_sysop_:

now that i look at that .. i think it might be finding my music too

[20:46:55]

sid3windr:

gbee: I don't know, what's the default and where can I change it?

[20:47:03]

sid3windr:

rcsd_sysop_: hm yeah, same here

[20:47:11]

justinh:

sid3windr: mythvideo settings.. general IIRC

[20:47:13]

gbee:

in the mythvideo settings, default is off I believe

[20:47:29]

sid3windr:

rcsd_sysop_: 11 sec including all files it finds here..

[20:47:39]

sid3windr:

justinh/gbee: I'll go check and try, brb :)

[20:47:41]

gbee:

but that would really slow things down and is one reason why we use a scan based model

[20:48:30]

justinh:

since effectively it's building a table in memory of what would ordinarily just be in the database

[20:48:34]

rcsd_sysop_:

ok so, tips for myself .. dont use sshfs, and dont try to index movies, tv and music in the VIDEO plug in

[20:49:05]

gbee:

no doubt the file browsing stuff could be improved, but it's clearly not important to anyone (and I don't mean devs) since no-one has submitted any improvements

[20:49:08]

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[20:49:22]

justinh:

are people so paranoid about shared dir security in the home they feel the need to use sshfs?

[20:49:41]

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[20:49:43]

sid3windr:

did you mean "video browser browses files" ?

[20:49:45]

rcsd_sysop_:

justinh: not at all ... it just requires ... zero ... set up

[20:49:46]

sid3windr:

it was disabled

[20:49:51]

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[20:49:57]

sid3windr:

now it's enabled and the dirscan now takes 28 sec

[20:50:00]

gbee:

sid3windr: if you use browser mode by default

[20:50:01]

sid3windr:

which is a lot better I think :)

[20:50:18]

sid3windr:

there's too many features in this thing to know what I'm using man :>

[20:50:24]

sid3windr:

the folder-look thing, 5x3 or so

[20:50:27]

sid3windr:

probably also the default ;)

[20:50:28]

justinh:

gallery mode

[20:50:53]

sid3windr:

I should really look into what the other things are, but heh :)

[20:50:57]

** iamlindoro__ can't wait to break systems bad with his MythVideo fanciness **

[20:51:10]

rcsd_sysop_:

is it being suggested that gallery is faster than the list format ? or vice-versa

[20:51:13]

justinh:

serve the filesquirrels right, so it will. muhahahaha

[20:51:23]

sid3windr:

rcsd_sysop_: I didn't change the listing format

[20:51:32]

sid3windr:

I don't think the view makes any difference

[20:51:37]

justinh:

don't reckon the listing format will make any difference

[20:51:39]

rcsd_sysop_:

sid3windr: ok, just curious

[20:52:02]

sid3windr:

it's a bit hard to see if a checkbox is checked or not

[20:52:04]

sid3windr:

or is this just me?

[20:52:07]

justinh:

maybe mounting the nfs share noatime would help too

[20:52:19]

GreyFoxx:

That could make a big difference

[20:52:32]

GreyFoxx:

us no atime on the remote server and on the mountpoint

[20:53:06]

justinh:

since not changing the 'last accessed' time on zillions of files would take a bit of time

[20:53:22]

justinh:

er.. save a bit of time..

[20:53:25]

justinh:

not take it

[20:54:34]

justinh:

doesn't arf speed up actually moving through the video items too IIRC

[20:57:12]

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[20:57:30]

dougl:

using 0.21 on ubuntu 8.04 and no matter what I do when I play mp3 mythfrontend never uses spdif output – any suggestions?

[20:58:38]

** justinh suggests looking at the setup section of media settings > music settings & selecting the correct output device **

[20:59:26]

dougl:

justinh, k – thanks = checking again...

[20:59:51]

** dougl thot he explored all the options in there **

[21:01:21]

justinh:

ffs. remind me to buy a multiway mains block with induh-vidually switched outputs will somebody please? plugging in my laptop adapter scares the bejesus out of me every time. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZT (arcing)

[21:02:14]

sid3windr:

noatime didn't do much, not including the music directory shaved 20 sec off (35->15)

[21:02:23]

sid3windr:

tried the other listing options, like gallery best :P

[21:02:42]

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[21:03:05]

sid3windr:

15 is still a lot, but more doable in any case (now if only there'd be some kind of indicator that it's actually doing something..)

[21:03:16]

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[21:03:39]

justinh:

could be worse. it could take as long as erm... some linuxy music organisers to add directories.

[21:03:46]

sid3windr:

hehe

[21:04:14]

sid3windr:

yeah, but if GreyFoxx's takes 2 sec :-/

[21:04:37]

thefRont:

i don

[21:04:39]

dougl:

justinh, I don't see any 'output' related dialog in that branch of the menu tree in mythfrontend... did I miss something?

[21:04:50]

thefRont:

i don't know what it is, but somehow mythtv 0.21 is buggy

[21:04:51]

justinh:

yup

[21:05:06]

dougl:

lol

[21:05:23]

thefRont:

the dtv_multiplex table suddenly contains entries with extremely weird frequencies

[21:05:40]

thefRont:

like 1645032704 and 2147483647

[21:05:47]

justinh:

funny, but my table only changes whenever I rescan

[21:05:51]

justinh:

weird, that

[21:06:14]

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[21:06:44]

thefRont:

i did the last rescan using a channels.conf file

[21:06:47]

rcsd_sysop_:

sid3windr: 15 seconds sounds good to me!

[21:06:56]

thefRont:

none of these frequencies appear in the channels.conf

[21:07:00]

justinh:

dougl: utils/setup > setup > media settings > music settings >

[21:07:11]

sid3windr:

rcsd_sysop_: well, I didn't do anything special except move the music out of the way (or rather, change the paths to video files in the mythvideo setup)

[21:07:16]

justinh:

thefRont: using channels.conf files is er.. not ideal

[21:07:29]

thefRont:

why not?

[21:07:38]

sid3windr:

sometimes it's the only thing that works though

[21:07:44]

justinh:

because you're _supposed_ to be able to use the mythtv-setup builtin scanner

[21:07:46]

sid3windr:

but I hear & hope it'll be better in 22 :)

[21:07:57]

justinh:

call it a last resort

[21:08:00]

rcsd_sysop_:

sid3windr: i'll try the same thing.

[21:08:14]

gbee:

dougl: have you configured digital audio correctly to upconvert your 41 Khz mp3s to 48Khz (required for spdif) ?

[21:08:15]

justinh:

dougl: then the general page

[21:08:19]

thefRont:

but I'm still wondering where these weired frequencies come from

[21:08:31]

thefRont:

weird

[21:08:32]

thefRont:

;)

[21:08:34]

justinh:

thefRont: something is very broken. very very broken

[21:08:41]

thefRont:

ok

[21:08:47]

justinh:

I suspect that isn't the only table with corrupted data

[21:09:04]

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[21:09:24]

gbee:

dougl: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Configuring_Digita . . . .2C_Properly

[21:09:33]

gbee:

and follow the instructions carefully

[21:09:54]

psicobra:

hi all i have just installed my tv card it is all up and working i have scanned for channels and have them in the list but when i try and watch them it just quits to main menue

[21:10:27]

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[21:10:44]

justinh:

psicobra: have you tried looking in mythbackend's log ?

[21:10:52]

justinh:

/var/log/mythtv/...... or so

[21:10:53]

gbee:

on the subject of the channel scanner not working – we can't fix bugs which aren't reported, now I'm not saying you haven't reported them, but most people don't, they complain it's broken and expect us to fix it like we're mind-readers

[21:10:54]

psicobra:

where is that?

[21:11:15]

psicobra:

scanning worked fine

[21:11:20]

justinh:

psicobra: ^^^^^^

[21:11:22]

psicobra:

just cant view them

[21:11:24]

justinh:

look up

[21:11:32]

psicobra:

cheers

[21:11:39]

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[21:11:56]

justinh:

plop the output of the log into a pastebin & somebody might care to have a look for you

[21:12:04]

justinh:

www.pastebin.ca etc

[21:12:13]

gbee:

scanning suprisingly works for all the devs using a variety of ATSC, DVB-S/T/C in (UK/Germany/US/Australia/Sweden/Singapore)

[21:12:16]

justinh:

don't filter the log yourself ;)

[21:13:01]

psicobra:

right my directory i created myth tv doesnt have permission to access it

[21:13:07]

justinh:

hmm. if my hacking keeps going on like this I'm gonna HAVE to add audio feedback.

[21:13:08]

gbee:

unless people report bugs, we don't know about them and they won't ever get fixed

[21:13:14]

psicobra:

so wha permissions does the folder need?

[21:13:23]

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[21:13:38]

gbee:

just read/write for the user that mythbackend runs under

[21:13:41]

justinh:

psicobra: read/write permissions for the user mythbackend is running as

[21:13:52]

gbee:

too slow old man

[21:14:01]

justinh:

oi!

[21:14:01]

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[21:15:12]

justinh:

btw I meant that I keep making all the buttons disappear, not that I'm making amazing progress :P

[21:16:04]

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[21:16:40]

sid3windr:

gbee: mythtv-setup crashes for me when scanning, but I was told to await the new scanner in .22 before attempting to get the old one fixed ;)

[21:16:50]

justinh:

as I suspected. CollapseArea is wot does it. meh

[21:16:53]

sid3windr:

("even" with taskset tricks to bind it to 1 CPU etc)

[21:17:27]

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[21:18:00]

dougl:

gbee, justinh thanks guys = learning now

[21:18:44]

psicobra:

cheers guys i now have picture but no sound

[21:19:19]

psicobra:

i am using an optical out cable had to specify for video where is sound settings for TV?

[21:19:24]

gbee:

sid3windr: well the scanner crashing bugs are generally considered to be too complicated to be worth fixing, but that said, if no-one has reviewed the backtrace then yours may be unrelated to the know issue

[21:19:38]

justinh:

psicobra: try enabling your digital audio output in the linux mixer for starters

[21:19:50]

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[21:20:33]

sid3windr:

gbee: well, I don't have a need to scan at the moment so I will await .22 as to not create more useless work

[21:20:42]

psicobra:

justinh, as far AS I CAN TELL IT IS

[21:20:50]

psicobra:

sorry for caps

[21:21:08]

sid3windr:

gbee: though if you want it fixed before .22 perhaps.. just tell me what you want me to do to create useful logs

[21:22:09]

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[21:22:15]

Mersault:

I'm using HD OTA in Toronto, and I have a schedules direct question. I use the Rogers Digital Cable listing, and then edit the xmltvid in the channel listing to grab the right channel from my listing. But one channel (WNGS, 15588) doesn't appear in Rogers' cable lineup. Is there a special lineup that includes every channel, or a way to create a custom lineup from the xmltvid's?

[21:22:34]

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[21:25:19]

psicobra:

any one help i have no sound

[21:25:31]

JEDIDIAH__:

there should be a broadcast listing for Toronto

[21:25:49]

JEDIDIAH__:

that's what you really should be using (if it exists)

[21:26:39]

dougl:

to config spdif for mp3 playback I copied that file to my home directory and then no audio worked so I deleted it... I never could figure out what to edit where in it...aplay -l = http://pastebin.com/m49501622

[21:27:08]

dougl:

err – http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Configuring_Digita . . . .2C_Properly

[21:29:38]

Mersault:

JEDIDIAH__: broadcast listings in canada are known to be broken for digital channels. They don't appear at all.

[21:30:16]

gbee:

sid3windr: at half nine on a Friday night after a couple of beers, I honestly can't say I care if it gets fixed before 0.22 or not, I'm certainly not going to work on it, but on principal if you haven't created a ticket then that at least should be done so it can be looked at by someone who does care ;)

[21:30:23]

sid3windr:

:>

[21:30:54]

sid3windr:

well, if there's a pointer somewhere on the wiki that tells me how to create a useful backtrace.. :)

[21:30:55]

gbee:

even if it ends up being closed as Won't fix at least it goes through that process

[21:31:08]

gbee:

section 22 of the docs

[21:31:41]

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[21:32:49]

sid3windr:

okiedokie

[21:32:52]

sid3windr:

willdo, thanks for the pointer

[21:33:12]

gbee:

might be section 23, can't recall, but it's one of those

[21:34:07]

justinh:

in the 'debugging' section if that helps any

[21:34:36]

sid3windr:

yea, it's in 22 – you were right and I'm already on it :]

[21:34:40]

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[21:39:57]

psicobra:

guys i have the picture working perfectly now but i still have no sound any ome got any ideas?

[21:40:41]

justinh:

psicobra: do any programs work over the optical out?

[21:40:51]

justinh:

I mean any programs that generate sound?

[21:40:55]

psicobra:

yes all of them

[21:41:03]

psicobra:

games videos everything

[21:41:20]

justinh:

over the optical out I mean

[21:41:24]

psicobra:

i have googled and quite a few people seem to have had this problem although no solution

[21:41:32]

psicobra:

yes

[21:42:29]

justinh:

probably still a config issue. try using aplay -L to see what your digital audio output is called then put that into the setup page where you define which audio output mythfrontend uses

[21:42:56]

justinh:

looking in your frontend log will probably help too

[21:43:02]

gbee:

psicobra: what about the analogue outputs?

[21:43:14]

psicobra:

it doesnt have any

[21:43:21]

gbee:

can you hook up headphones/speakers to the 3.5mm jack?

[21:43:26]

gbee:

none?

[21:43:32]

psicobra:

all it has is arial in and out

[21:43:33]

gbee:

that's unusual

[21:43:51]

justinh:

ruh?

[21:44:10]

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[21:44:27]

justinh:

never seen a soundcard with aerial ins & outs in all my life

[21:44:34]

gbee:

oh I'm just too tired for this

[21:44:40]

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[21:46:49]

psicobra:

http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/products/data_novatpci.html

[21:47:02]

psicobra:

it's kinda like that but the conexant version

[21:47:07]

justinh:

psicobra: you get audio from the computer not the tuner card

[21:47:16]

[Peter]:

you're using that as the soundcard? no wonder it doesn't work

[21:47:20]

sid3windr:

=)

[21:47:30]

psicobra:

ok

[21:47:44]

psicobra:

so what do i need to do to fix it

[21:47:50]

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[21:48:02]

sid3windr:

braaaaain

[21:48:30]

psicobra:

not working at the mo

[21:48:52]

[Peter]:

22:43 < gbee> can you hook up headphones/speakers to the 3.5mm jack?

[21:48:54]

[Peter]:

try that

[21:49:05]

psicobra:

there is no 3.5 jack

[21:49:11]

[Peter]:

...

[21:49:21]

[Peter]:

I give up as well

[21:49:40]

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[21:49:51]

cityLights3:

gbee: it works ! I can now see utf8

[21:49:58]

[Peter]:

I thought you would've understood by now that we're talking about the 3.5 jack on your soundcard/motherboard

[21:50:12]

cityLights3:

but now I get NVP: prebuffering pause all the time

[21:50:14]

psicobra:

gotcha

[21:50:20]

psicobra:

ok but why?

[21:50:38]

cityLights3:

does 0.22 work differnt then 0.20 in the video load?

[21:50:38]

[Peter]:

to see if the sound is going out that way instead of thru spdif?

[21:51:00]

psicobra:

ok brb

[21:52:12]

cityLights3:

I mean I allready did http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Troubleshooting:Prebuffering_pause

[21:57:33]

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[22:13:53]

jduggan:

guys i have a tuner stuck

[22:14:18]

jduggan:

something is recording, ive selected never record and saved but it continues to record the current show

[22:14:29]

jduggan:

is there a way to force it to quit recording?

[22:15:12]

psicobra:

ok i tried the headphones and still no sound

[22:17:07]

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[22:24:29]

psicobra:

ok i have tried head phones in every socket but still no sound

[22:26:32]

clever:

reminds me of the time i stuck an MP3 player in every socket to figure out my inputs

[22:27:19]

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[22:27:31]

psicobra:

i done some research and i found some info from mythtc.org that says No audio output from anything but MPEG2

[22:27:36]

DrDigital:

WinTV-HVR-1800 can i use that to be my pvr?

[22:28:16]

ccfreak2k:

Isn't there a site called linuxtv.org or something that would hold the answer to that?

[22:28:39]

wagnerrp:

DrDigital: depends on what you want it for

[22:28:57]

wagnerrp:

that card works fine for digital, but mythtv does not understand how to access the mpeg encoder, meaning no analog

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[22:41:39]

DrDigital:

id be hooking cable tv to it

[22:41:42]

DrDigital:

like comcast

[22:41:43]

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[22:42:01]

wagnerrp:

well then the 1800 will not work for you

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[22:42:23]

DrDigital:

but if i hooked up like a dvd player it would?

[22:42:39]

DrDigital:

or anything to the svideo

[22:42:45]

wagnerrp:

the 1800 will not work for you

[22:43:04]

wagnerrp:

the 1800 will not work in analog mode with mythtv

[22:43:12]

wagnerrp:

you can only use it for digital (ATSC/QAM)

[22:43:37]

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[22:43:44]

DrDigital:

im trying to understand what digital is

[22:43:51]

wagnerrp:

hooking it up to a dvd player, hooking it up to a STB, hooking it up to the coax for analog cable, all will not work

[22:44:05]

wagnerrp:

appropriate name then...

[22:44:10]

DrDigital:

what would be digital that hooks to it

[22:44:23]

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[22:44:24]

DrDigital:

because i was under the impression i had digital cable

[22:44:28]

wagnerrp:

you get an antenna, and you pick up digital stations

[22:44:42]

wagnerrp:

or you hook it into the cable line, and probably get the local stations rebroadcast over the wire

[22:44:52]

wagnerrp:

that card has a QAM (digital cable) tuner

[22:44:54]

DrDigital:

so then my digital converter box and antenna would work

[22:45:03]

iamlindoro__:

If this all sounds horribly familiar, you all had this same conversation with one another on 11-17–08

[22:45:06]

wagnerrp:

however it can only access unencrypted channels

[22:45:19]

iamlindoro__:

which clearly didn't take

[22:45:26]

wagnerrp:

meaning most digital cable channels will not be usable by that card

[22:45:50]

wagnerrp:

similarly, THERE IS NO PURPOSE TO USING A DIGITAL CONVERTER BOX WITH MYTHTV

[22:45:58]

wagnerrp:

i cant count how many people ive had to tell that one to

[22:46:17]

wagnerrp:

you plug the card directly into the antenna

[22:46:30]

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[22:46:33]

wagnerrp:

a digital converter box receives digital ATSC, and outputs analog NTSC video

[22:46:42]

wagnerrp:

that cannot cannot receive analog signals in mythtv

[22:46:45]

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[22:46:58]

JEDIDIAH__:

yup... get a hd homerun for the cost of a couple of converter boxes.

[22:47:07]

DrDigital:

okay its not like i went out and bought stuff to do it, im just looking at what i have here in boxes as im selling stuff off on craisglist/ebay

[22:47:17]

JEDIDIAH__:

...you'll have more CBS than you can handle.

[22:47:18]

wagnerrp:

or pick up a cheap digital tuner for less than the cost of a converter box

[22:47:24]

DrDigital:

i didnt buy converter boxes, had them given to me

[22:48:02]

DrDigital:

didnt buy the card ether

[22:48:43]

wagnerrp:

if you want to see what to expect to get over digital cable, check the silicondust website

[22:48:56]

wagnerrp:

they maintain a list of what channels are unencrypted, listed by zip code

[22:55:04]

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james_ is now known as riddlebox

[22:58:42]

RyeBrye:

Just out of curiosity I checked silicondust – and it appears that ESPN and ESPN2 HD are both being sent in the clear on my local cable

[22:58:43]

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[22:58:49]

RyeBrye:

I think they say you ahve to pay for those

[22:58:59]

sid3windr:

okay

[22:59:06]

sid3windr:

upgrading to debian lenny wasnt such a good idea

[22:59:08]

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[22:59:11]

sid3windr:

mfe crashing now on startup :(

[22:59:51]

DrDigital:

thanks for the info

[23:01:45]

iamlindoro__:

RyeBrye: Almost certainly images picked up from scanning while someone else on the node is using on-demand (which is usually in the clear)

[23:02:00]

iamlindoro__:

RyeBrye: (I have the VOD for the ESPN channels)

[23:06:03]

RyeBrye:

Interesting

[23:06:25]

RyeBrye:

iamlindoro__: I tuned to those channels on my TV that has a QAM tuner and I get those channels

[23:06:39]

RyeBrye:

(ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, and ESPNU)

[23:07:12]

RyeBrye:

my local cable company is a small city-owned company because a few years ago there wasn't any good options for broadband internet and so they decided they'd just start their own cable company (strange)

[23:08:13]

RyeBrye:

I'm certain they used to scramble those because I didn't pick them up last time I scanned for channels

[23:08:48]

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[23:12:00]

RyeBrye:

yeah, I just did a scan – I'm getting ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, ESPN U HD and ESPN News HD all clear QAM

[23:12:35]

RyeBrye:

although right now they all look like absolute crap except for their OSG's because their video sources are SD – btu they have pretty logos in the margin of the 4:3

[23:21:59]

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wagnerrp:

i need faster disks... 60MB/s is too slow

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qupada:

i've got an issue with mythtv-setup, it hangs when i attempt to add a tuner. to the point where kill -9 won't even stop the process. running 0.21 with a patch from silicondust.com which is meant to make the new dvb-t hdhomerun (i have one on pre-order) work

MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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